The Megyn Kelly Show - What She SAW in That Locker Room ｜ Riley Gaines x Megyn Kelly - The FULL Interview

00:00:00.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:11.700 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, coming to you live from Sirius XM HQ in New York City today.

00:00:18.860 We have a first-time guest to the show, which I cannot believe, and one you surely know.

00:00:23.420 It's Riley Gaines. Yay!

00:00:25.320 She is a former collegiate swimmer at the very, very top of her game.

00:00:28.720 She rose to fame after she, well, she placed fifth in the NCAA finals, and she tied with a man, Leah Thomas, who was posing as a woman and was allowed to compete with the women and entered her women's race, not to mention her women's locker room. 0.98

00:00:48.980 And she and the other women were told to just deal with it, or they'd be labeled as bigots. 1.00

00:00:52.880 But Riley did not stay quiet.

00:00:56.460 She left a career behind that she hadn't entirely planned for herself to fight for fairness in women's sports, even though she'd left them. 0.99

00:01:04.040 She understood about the young women coming up behind her. 0.90

00:01:06.760 She continues to lead the charge today and works to implement change across the country for your daughter and mine.

00:01:13.100 Today, she's here to share her story in a new book that goes into her childhood, the unfair advantage transgender athletes have, and her advice for not just women and girls, but everyone.

00:01:24.040 The book is called Swimming Against the Current, Fighting for Common Sense in a World That's Lost Its Mind, and it's out tomorrow.

00:01:33.280 Okay, Riley Gaines, Swimming Against the Current.

00:01:35.940 Please support her.

00:01:37.080 This is her first interview on the book.

00:01:39.480 I'm so happy to meet you.

00:01:42.340 I feel like I know you.

00:01:44.400 Of course, you have been at the forefront of this issue, a voice that I constantly look to.

00:01:50.400 So I am a huge fan.

00:01:52.240 Like I said, I can't believe we haven't done this sooner, but I'm thrilled to be in this chair next to you.

00:01:56.760 Thank you.

00:01:57.380 And, you know, your story helped activate me on all of this, because while I was speaking out, I'd had a change of heart from where I used to be.

00:02:04.960 Um, it was when you got attacked in San Francisco that, I mean, for the first time in my life, I said, I might need to form like a 501c3.

00:02:14.020 I might like, I, because, you know, as a journalist, you're not used to being an activist.

00:02:17.960 I don't really like that word, but I couldn't believe what they did to you as a woman who has standing to speak about this issue, as a woman who was directly affected by a man competing in her sport at the highest level.

00:02:30.580 And they treated you like a villain.

00:02:34.260 You were literally assaulted.

00:02:35.960 How pivotal was that moment for you?

00:02:38.100 Because I know you write about it in the book.

00:02:40.080 It was a huge defining moment for me.

00:02:42.080 Uh, up until that point, I kind of just figured I would speak to this issue, um, say my piece, speak about the unfairness of the competition, the locker room, the silencing that we face, but swiftly move on.

00:02:55.060 This is not something that I ever wanted to do.

00:02:57.580 I still don't necessarily want to be doing with my life.

00:03:00.860 Um, but when I was ambushed, I mean, I was being shoved.

00:03:06.900 I was being pushed.

00:03:07.600 I was punched in the face by these men wearing dresses, which fortunately for me, their punches really don't hurt that bad. 1.00

00:03:15.160 Uh, they held me for ransom throughout the night.

00:03:17.880 I mean, four hours, um, held me for ransom, demanding that if I wanted to make it home to see my family safely again, I had to pay them money.

00:03:26.520 And you might be wondering, okay, well, where are the police?

00:03:28.580 And it's San Francisco, the police were being held for ransom with me.

00:03:33.660 It was a wild experience.

00:03:35.340 And it was in that moment.

00:03:36.660 I realized, oh my gosh, this is what we're up against.

00:03:40.780 And let's be very clear.

00:03:42.380 My message from the beginning has been that there are two sexes. 0.82

00:03:47.480 You can't change your sex. 1.00

00:03:48.980 And each sex is deserving of equal opportunity, privacy, and safety.

00:03:54.700 Nothing controversial, nothing hateful.

00:03:56.600 I mean, it's, it's really the bare minimum what I'm advocating for.

00:03:59.940 Uh, but for saying that the amount of vitriol and violence that I was met with, that's when it, I was really reassured, uh, that what I was speaking to was in fact the right thing, the fair thing, just moral, ethical thing.

00:04:14.760 Um, what was it, what was the name of the university again?

00:04:18.180 San Francisco State University.

00:04:19.580 We pulled the tape just to refresh the audience.

00:04:21.740 It was, it was bad.

00:04:23.400 Here's a little.

00:04:23.800 The mob's chasing her.

00:04:43.300 I'm coming, I'm good, I'm good.

00:04:44.620 Oh my God.

00:05:02.000 So that's only a snippet of what I endured for hours, hours, uh, hundreds of these protesters, again, so disorienting at that because they, they come in the room that that's after I had been escorted, kind of carried off out of the room after having already been ambushed.

00:05:20.000 Um, but they come in the room, they turn the lights off, rush to the front.

00:05:25.100 The lights are flickering before they're indefinitely turned off again, men and dresses running at me, women with beards.

00:05:32.860 I was so confused, uh, incredibly disorienting.

00:05:36.920 And again, that's what I endured for hours.

00:05:39.520 Some of the most heinous, profane things you could possibly imagine being said were said to me. 0.97

00:05:47.620 They were yelling at the officers, calling the officers racist pigs for protecting a white girl like me for hours. 0.96

00:05:54.860 That chant trans women are women is behind all of the problems we're seeing that they believe that's true. 1.00

00:06:03.560 And we don't, we know it isn't.

00:06:06.840 That's the whole premise of the entire gender ideology debate. 0.99

00:06:10.600 So whether it's the sports side, whether it's what we see in corporate America, whether it's the medicalization side of things, that's, that's the premise of the whole debate.

00:06:19.560 And we spent so much of our time on this issue saying or, or hearing trans women are women, women, but it's, it only seems like it goes one way, especially in sports and prisons and different places.

00:06:32.320 We don't hear of, of women identifying as men, infiltrating into men's spaces.

00:06:38.320 No, this is only happening one way.

00:06:40.020 The, I know you went, uh, our audience may remember we covered the Kappa Kappa Gamma lawsuit.

00:06:45.260 Um, they claimed that this man, biological man, well, we know that he got into Kappa Kappa Gamma out in Wyoming and a bunch of the sorority sisters objected.

00:06:56.080 And they objected mostly to their own sorority, allowing it.

00:06:59.640 And then they filed a lawsuit against Kappa Kappa Gamma national saying you've, you've changed the definition on us.

00:07:05.500 You've done a bait and switch that you said, we were only going to allow women. 0.64

00:07:08.360 And now you haven't, you've allowed a man. 0.99

00:07:10.260 And you went to the arguments that that simple concept of what is a woman, does it include more than women is now being argued in front of the 10th circuit court of appeals.

00:07:26.120 That's one step down from the U S Supreme court and they were really wrestling with it.

00:07:31.080 Well, we shouldn't be surprised considering when a sitting Supreme court justice was asked this question, what is a woman by, by Tennessee Senator Marsha Blackburn?

00:07:40.540 She said, well, I, I don't, I can't answer that because I'm not a biologist.

00:07:45.260 Well, guess what?

00:07:46.660 Ketanji Brown Jackson.

00:07:47.560 I'm not a biologist.

00:07:49.060 Um, I'm, I guess thinking of an analogy here.

00:07:52.160 I'm not a veterinarian either, but I know what a dog is. 1.00

00:07:54.820 That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. 0.99

00:07:57.080 And it's no surprise that this is the same Supreme court justice who recently said she felt like our, uh, first amendment rights were hamstringing the government precisely. 1.00

00:08:07.140 That's precisely what our first amendment rights are supposed to do.

00:08:09.720 But nonetheless, um, it was wild to sit in that court.

00:08:14.240 There were, they pulled a panel of judges, uh, three judges.

00:08:18.440 Uh, one was a Biden appointee.

00:08:20.160 One was a Clinton appointee.

00:08:21.660 One was an Obama appointee.

00:08:23.460 So they, that's a nightmare.

00:08:24.640 It's like some sort of like joke, like you walk into a bar and, and this is your scenario, but that's what the girls drew.

00:08:31.620 So we don't know the verdict yet, but I'm not overly hopeful just based on, uh, the, the panel of judges, but to sit there and listen to, to the Kappa attorney say that woman has multiple definitions. 0.57

00:08:44.760 It's not a word with one singular definitions.

00:08:47.380 It can mean anything.

00:08:48.380 She was even then pushed back by the Biden appointee judge who said, okay, well, if you're sitting here telling us that woman can mean anything, does that include the definition of, of cisgender men, men who identify as men?

00:09:01.740 Is that a reasonable definition for woman to what she responded back with?

00:09:05.420 I don't have enough research right now to tell you if a male who identifies as a male, if that's a reasonable definition for the word woman.

00:09:12.440 It's a promising thing that the judge, that the judge pushed back a little.

00:09:16.360 I mean, she's recognizing that there must be some limitations on how we define it, but I don't have high hopes.

00:09:21.460 I mean, the 10th circuit normally is not the most liberal court in the country, but I don't have high hopes.

00:09:26.340 I do have high hopes for the Supreme court.

00:09:28.220 I realized the audience is thinking Gorsuch title seven.

00:09:31.420 He said, you have to be able to hire trans people, but that I do think is very different from this issue.

00:09:36.340 It's just very different.

00:09:37.740 I do not like the chances of the trans activists. 1.00

00:09:41.080 If cases like this go up to the high court.

00:09:43.500 I agree.

00:09:44.480 The Supreme court hasn't heard a title nine case yet.

00:09:47.380 There's a couple, I think that are on, on the docket that could hopefully get there.

00:09:51.420 And I say hopefully, because I, I am in full agreeance with you.

00:09:55.020 I think the Supreme court would rule in our favor on this, that they would understand that sex-based

00:10:00.360 categories and protections and rights are necessary when again, opportunities are threatened.

00:10:05.640 When, when privacy or safety are threatened.

00:10:08.720 Um, how do you think about that rally?

00:10:10.860 So if the Supreme court were so to rule, or if, you know, we just had complete sanity reign

00:10:15.160 at the Olympic level, at the NCAA level, I know I've read the, the, the stories in the

00:10:21.700 book about your dad, you don't look backward.

00:10:24.960 You only look forward, but how do you think it would make you feel as somebody who actually

00:10:28.280 came up in the time of madness in the time where we were forcing young women to deal

00:10:34.600 with this?

00:10:35.600 Well, it's wild to me that so much of what we see now by the Biden administration, um,

00:10:41.480 this new title nine rewrite from the administration and the department of education, not to mention

00:10:47.100 all of the other things, whether it's the sports issue or not, that they're doing under

00:10:52.840 the guise of progress, right?

00:10:54.900 Indicating we are moving in the positive forward direction.

00:10:59.420 Let's be very clear.

00:11:01.020 Uh, what we are seeing is not progress.

00:11:04.520 This is regressive.

00:11:05.880 It's taking us back in time.

00:11:07.680 Uh, at least half a century title nine was implemented in 1972.

00:11:11.240 So 52 years ago, um, that's what we're going back to by asking women to smile, to step aside, 1.00

00:11:19.180 to allow these men onto our podiums, telling us that we're the problem if we don't want

00:11:24.220 to, or feel totally comfortable undressing next to a fully naked, fully intact man.

00:11:30.140 That's not what progress that actually happened to you, that you were at the NCAA, uh, championships

00:11:36.240 where Leah Thomas was present, who was 550 something as a man, but was coming in fifth

00:11:42.560 in your race, quote, as a woman, um, you had to change in a locker room with him. 1.00

00:11:48.220 That's right.

00:11:49.340 Fully intact.

00:11:50.140 There was no surgery.

00:11:51.300 Fully intact.

00:11:51.900 No, not at the time.

00:11:53.420 I don't know now, but no, not at the time.

00:11:55.560 And keep in mind, we knew going into this beat, this was in March of 2022.

00:12:01.620 We found out a couple of weeks before the meet, the NCAA, of course, they were pandering

00:12:05.760 back and forth, sitting on the fence.

00:12:07.460 Do we let him compete with the women? 0.99

00:12:09.140 Do we not?

00:12:09.800 Ultimately, they just, they decided like three weeks before they announced that he is, his

00:12:14.440 participation in the women's category was non-negotiable.

00:12:17.680 So we knew we would be competing against him.

00:12:20.780 We did not know we would be changing in the locker room.

00:12:23.440 There was no forewarning.

00:12:25.180 There was no ways that we could have made other arrangements for ourself.

00:12:30.120 If this was something that we felt uncomfortable with the first time that we became aware, we

00:12:36.100 would be undressing next to this six foot four, 22 year old man, fully intact, fully exposing

00:12:41.680 himself was when we were inches away from said man, fully exposing himself.

00:12:48.700 Oh my gosh.

00:12:49.140 And I'll kind of set the scene because the swimming locker room, it's not a place of modesty.

00:12:53.480 Uh, these suits that you put on it, I mean, they're skin tight, they're paper thin.

00:12:57.980 It takes about 15, 20 minutes, your racing suit to, to really poke and prod yourself into

00:13:02.660 these suits, uh, 20 minutes of what you're fully exposed, very intimate.

00:13:07.040 You have friends oftentimes like helping you get yourself into these suits.

00:13:10.820 Then I think we can all agree, you know, a locker room is not a comfortable place, but growing

00:13:16.780 up a swimmer, you almost become comfortable feeling vulnerable in that environment.

00:13:21.020 But I want you to put yourself in our shoes or, or your daughter in our shoes. 0.87

00:13:26.740 You have your back turned again, putting on your suit.

00:13:29.920 And all of a sudden you hear a man's voice in that locker room.

00:13:35.120 You turn around, you look up because he's so tall and there's a six foot four man undressing,

00:13:40.860 taking off his women's swimsuit and putting on his street clothes.

00:13:44.620 Wow.

00:13:45.600 It's feelings of, of course it's awkward, it's embarrassing, it's uncomfortable.

00:13:49.700 It was innate, inherent for every girl in that changing space to, to cover themselves, whether

00:13:55.140 it was with their hand or their clothes or their towels and to get out as quickly as they

00:14:00.420 could.

00:14:01.620 But I, I think the best way to describe how we felt was, I mean, it was an utter violation.

00:14:08.120 It felt like betrayal and really it was traumatic and not even just traumatic because of what we

00:14:14.380 were forced to see or how we were forcibly exploited.

00:14:17.480 It was traumatic for me to know just how easy it was for those people who created these

00:14:22.220 policies and forced these policies to totally dismiss our rights to privacy without even

00:14:27.500 a second thought, without even bare minimum for warning us that this would be the arrangement.

00:14:33.160 And when you think about, about the messaging before he got to you, he was swimming with the

00:14:38.100 UPenn swimmers on their team.

00:14:39.580 And those girls had quietly tried to raise objections because they'd been going through

00:14:44.920 this all season and were told they needed therapy to work on their bigotry.

00:14:49.580 They were told they were the problem.

00:14:50.820 16 of the girls signed on to an email to university of Pennsylvania.

00:14:55.740 Some of these girls, even victims, um, previous victims, survivors of sexual assault.

00:15:01.440 Uh, I know of one girl who was raped in a bathroom setting prior to going to college. 0.87

00:15:06.140 And so this was understandably a very triggering and traumatic experience for her.

00:15:12.600 And so 16 signed on to the school expressing their discomfort in the locker room to which

00:15:18.120 the school, I swear, I have a screenshot of the email. 0.71

00:15:20.620 The school responded back with, if you feel uncomfortable seeing male genitalia, here's

00:15:26.600 some counseling resources that you should seek in an attempt to reeducate yourselves.

00:15:30.860 They had to go to mandatory LGBTQ education meetings weekly to learn about how just by

00:15:36.360 being cisgender, they were oppressing Leah Thomas, uh, their school even went as far as to tell

00:15:42.740 these girls that if they did speak out, uh, and any harm whatsoever were to come towards 0.99

00:15:49.260 Thomas's way, whether it was physical harm, um, mental harm, emotional harm, self-inflicted

00:15:54.580 for that matter, they said, then understand you girls are solely responsible and that

00:16:00.200 would make you responsible for a potential death.

00:16:02.380 And that would make you a murderer.

00:16:03.960 Oh my God.

00:16:04.760 And you don't want to be a murderer.

00:16:06.580 Do you know?

00:16:07.760 So I suggest you be kind and I suggest you be inclusive.

00:16:11.840 This is so stomach turning just to hear you describe it is deeply alarming because it's

00:16:17.360 happening right now to much younger girls too.

00:16:20.520 Not that it was easy at the college level, but you and I both know it's happening to 10

00:16:24.540 year olds to 12 year olds who don't have any sort of maturity yet to deal with this

00:16:28.720 kind of a thing and not for nothing, but there's no question in my mind and in the minds of

00:16:34.300 many experts on this issue that it's not normal in any way for an actual gender confused person, 0.98

00:16:39.960 an actual trans person to show off his penis in a women's locker room. 0.89

00:16:44.560 The people who are make up the 2% of trans people who are legitimately gender confused 0.99

00:16:49.560 and have been since birth and have lived their lives like that, they don't want you to see 0.99

00:16:53.460 their penis. 0.99

00:16:54.520 They're actually trying to hide that and to blend in with women. 0.99

00:16:59.340 People who do what Leah Thomas did tend to be overwhelmingly autogonophiles who are aroused

00:17:05.820 sexually by dressing as women and being around women while they're pretending to be women. 0.82

00:17:10.300 And so the odds of this guy getting off on the fact that you were uncomfortable are extremely

00:17:15.600 high.

00:17:16.520 A hundred percent.

00:17:17.400 And, and yeah, to your point, which I haven't really thought of it this way, but it's such

00:17:21.640 a good point because someone who is gender dysphoric, they're so uncomfortable with their

00:17:27.660 own body that they would never expose themselves out in the open in that way because they're

00:17:32.820 dysphoric about that.

00:17:34.160 Right.

00:17:34.260 Um, that was not the case with Leah Thomas, which he's actually been on social media and

00:17:39.400 liked posts and commented on posts and reposted things that say he is an AGP.

00:17:44.760 Oh, they're very dark.

00:17:45.660 Oh, I mean, they, they make it very clear.

00:17:47.520 The daily wire did a whole expose on it, pardon the pun.

00:17:51.080 And it was deeply alarming.

00:17:52.420 And we've invited Leah Thomas to come on the show and talk to us about it and deny it if

00:17:56.240 he wants to.

00:17:57.180 Uh, he hasn't taken us up on that.

00:17:58.800 No, but what we're doing to our young girls, it's morally wrong.

00:18:04.000 It's evil.

00:18:04.980 There was just a story.

00:18:06.400 I know you saw this out of West Virginia.

00:18:08.580 Um, that's so that court ruled against the young woman.

00:18:14.300 That's a 13 year old girl, I think, who was playing against a male.

00:18:19.060 Hold on.

00:18:19.320 Let me get my notes.

00:18:20.620 And this young boy said, I'm a girl and I, um, I've been a girl.

00:18:27.420 I've been taking the hormones and all that.

00:18:29.440 But this, the young actual girl said, okay, you may say you're a girl, but you're, you 1.00

00:18:35.320 keep threatening to do things to me with your penis in the most vile and offensive terms 1.00

00:18:41.100 possible. 0.99

00:18:42.340 And you keep winning races with faster times than most of the girls have in all of that. 1.00

00:18:47.620 And the court in West Virginia sided with the trans student.

00:18:53.880 It goes to show you, no one is immune.

00:18:56.460 Um, and this is something I see across the board.

00:18:59.580 I live in Tennessee, which is a very right.

00:19:01.880 For the most part, conservative state, uh, we've got great leaders in our state who do

00:19:05.980 wonderful things.

00:19:07.440 Um, but I, in talking with people, community members, parents, even kids in the state,

00:19:13.580 they say, oh, well, well, that's not happening here.

00:19:15.580 We're in Tennessee.

00:19:16.680 Well, that would be your first, that would be your first mistake because it certainly

00:19:20.680 is.

00:19:21.140 I think complacency is ultimately how we've got here because we said, oh, it won't affect

00:19:25.620 me.

00:19:26.020 This isn't happening to me.

00:19:28.120 And then it does.

00:19:29.140 Um, but those West Virginia girls, um, that case is, is the girls who refused to do the 1.00

00:19:35.680 shot put against this guy, right?

00:19:37.440 Um, it's, you were there for that too.

00:19:39.160 Yeah.

00:19:39.520 Yes.

00:19:40.000 I feel everywhere.

00:19:41.800 Um, but really, I couldn't be more proud of, of those five girls because look, these

00:19:46.640 are five 13, 14 year old girls in middle school.

00:19:50.820 Um, they reached out to me a few weeks prior to, to ultimately conceding and the video that

00:19:56.600 went totally viral and they said, Riley, we're set to compete against a boy.

00:20:01.680 Uh, he's also in middle school.

00:20:03.420 He's 13 years old.

00:20:04.740 He goes by the name of Becky pepper Jackson or Becky Jackson pepper, whatever his name

00:20:08.920 is.

00:20:09.100 And they said, but we don't want to compete against him.

00:20:12.140 They said, Riley, it's not because we don't like him or, or that we're hateful towards

00:20:16.080 him or people who act in the way he does.

00:20:18.760 No, it's not that.

00:20:19.440 But Riley, are we not worthy of being called champions?

00:20:22.580 Why do we have to fight for second place?

00:20:24.900 And my heart broke middle school age girls. 1.00

00:20:28.800 How sad is it that they're left to contemplate if they're worthy enough to be called champions.

00:20:35.580 Um, but anyways, they decided on conceding, uh, five of those girls, they got up in the

00:20:42.060 circle.

00:20:42.680 They had their shot put, they, they loaded up as if they were going to throw.

00:20:45.920 And then they stepped out.

00:20:47.640 Yeah.

00:20:47.820 I could not be more inspired.

00:20:49.660 I mean, I hate to even say that.

00:20:51.140 I hate to say I'm inspired by girls not competing in sports because I know the benefits of playing 0.98

00:20:57.580 sports.

00:20:57.760 I read the benefits for sure.

00:20:59.980 For something far larger than just winning that one meet or far larger than even themselves.

00:21:04.680 The allegations against this man claiming he's female, uh, included that he, again, haven't

00:21:12.100 received his response to this, assuming it's a denial, but, uh, alleging that he made multiple

00:21:18.220 sexually explicit remarks to, um, this one girl in particular, Adelia Cross, two to three 0.94

00:21:24.080 times per week was looking at her saying, suck my D. Um, same thing to her other teammates as 1.00

00:21:30.040 well saying, I'm going to do this with my D and to you here or there and elsewhere that 0.99

00:21:34.740 he would taunt her after beating her in competitions. 0.88

00:21:36.960 You have more testosterone than I do, and I'm still beating you. 0.98

00:21:41.420 Uh, and then he eventually took her spot away from her by her eighth grade season.

00:21:45.580 Uh, puberty appeared to be setting in and he was suddenly taller than her and throwing

00:21:50.260 20 feet farther than she could.

00:21:52.580 Uh, and the school did next to nothing.

00:21:54.840 That looks like they worked to get the comments shut down, but he was never removed from the

00:21:59.120 team.

00:21:59.520 And these girls too are forced to change in a locker room with this intact young man.

00:22:04.380 Now, the problem is the courts in that one case in West Virginia seem to say, well, it's

00:22:11.840 somebody who tried to live as a girl for, you know, since age nine.

00:22:16.040 And if they go on the puberty blockers, uh, and then cross sex hormones, I mean, the court's 0.99

00:22:21.220 basically saying they're kind of a woman except for the penis. 1.00

00:22:25.260 And so they have no advantage. 1.00

00:22:26.960 Yeah.

00:22:27.160 Except for that thing.

00:22:28.200 And then, so they have no advantage.

00:22:29.680 And I was, I had a couple of left wingers on my show recently who I like, but they were

00:22:34.160 like, do you think jazz Jennings should have to use the boys room and playing the boys sports?

00:22:39.340 And I said, yes, I do.

00:22:40.840 I'm a hundred percent there.

00:22:42.400 Yes.

00:22:42.980 So what's your answer to the people who say, well, he got, you know, he started the puberty

00:22:47.520 blockers, didn't have male puberty or jazz Jennings had the operation. 0.77

00:22:50.520 It's really kind of a girl now.

00:22:51.940 Here's the thing.

00:22:53.660 Every decision has consequences.

00:22:55.220 First and foremost, even, even a decision as simple as if I don't get out of bed in

00:22:59.800 the morning, it has a consequence to it.

00:23:01.620 And so look, I'm not here to police on what someone does.

00:23:05.360 I think a child, anyone under the age of 18, um, chemically or surgically castrating themselves.

00:23:11.620 I think that's criminal, but an adult, that's the beauty of America.

00:23:16.000 You can do what you want as long as it's not costing my taxpayer dollars and it's safe for

00:23:23.140 everyone else.

00:23:23.560 Who cares?

00:23:24.640 Um, so I'm not here to police that, but that decision has consequences.

00:23:30.300 So if your girl, let's say who begins taking testosterone, no, I don't think it's fair for 0.55

00:23:37.560 you to compete with the girls because that's, that's cheating. 1.00

00:23:40.140 That's, that's called using performance enhancing drugs.

00:23:42.840 What do we call Lance Armstrong?

00:23:44.160 We called him a cheater.

00:23:45.660 Um, but that might be a decision that you have to make.

00:23:48.920 That's a consequence of the decision.

00:23:51.180 Okay.

00:23:51.400 Do you want to transition?

00:23:52.460 Fine, but you might not be able to play your sport, um, anymore.

00:23:58.220 And so I hear all the time.

00:23:59.460 Okay.

00:23:59.580 Well, what about a third category?

00:24:01.700 Uh, honestly, I thought for a while, sure.

00:24:04.160 Let's just have a third category.

00:24:05.380 But the more I think about it, if safety and fairness still matter, which to me, every

00:24:11.340 person, whether trans identifying or not, I think every person is entitled and should

00:24:16.460 strive for safety and fairness.

00:24:19.240 Um, if we create a third category, um, if we create a third category, it's still very much

00:24:23.420 going to be males competing against females, um, therefore safety and fairness.

00:24:27.480 Wait, why do you think that?

00:24:28.380 Because you think female people posing as males will go into that category and just get beaten

00:24:33.760 by the guys who are.

00:24:35.260 Yeah.

00:24:35.540 I mean, the binary still exists.

00:24:36.920 Even if you have this third category for non-binary or, or males identifying as women or females identifying

00:24:44.140 as men who have begun taking testosterone.

00:24:46.160 It's still going to be males versus females. 0.93

00:24:49.120 I don't think we're going to have the females who posing as males who compete in that, right?

00:24:52.160 They haven't done a lot of the competition.

00:24:53.600 They are not the problem.

00:24:54.840 That's another thing.

00:24:55.720 My leftist friends were pushing me on.

00:24:57.140 They're not leftist.

00:24:57.700 They're center left, but they, they were left a little bit on a couple of things.

00:25:01.120 And you know, I, it's look, it's not, the problem is not with women who poses men 0.99

00:25:06.820 making their way into men's faces, nor is there a danger posed by that, nor is there an

00:25:11.380 unfairness issue posed by that.

00:25:12.860 It's always the other way around.

00:25:14.420 I don't know whether the third category could work.

00:25:16.900 I just know it's not, it shouldn't be my daughter's problem until they figure it out.

00:25:20.620 No, I don't care.

00:25:21.860 We shouldn't be, it shouldn't be up to the women to create a solution. 1.00

00:25:25.560 Plus it's like, look, my daughter loves sports, but she also really likes to act in the school

00:25:33.380 plays.

00:25:33.940 They happen at the same time.

00:25:35.480 So she has to make a choice.

00:25:36.940 She has to create a hierarchy of what is most important to her on her value list.

00:25:41.640 Exactly.

00:25:42.020 That's what these trans people are going to have to do.

00:25:44.200 Exactly.

00:25:45.180 Yeah, no doubt.

00:25:46.500 And then let's say a third category.

00:25:47.920 Okay.

00:25:48.120 You have, do you then split it?

00:25:51.120 Okay.

00:25:51.420 Males who identify as women, women who identify as men. 0.98

00:25:54.320 Okay.

00:25:54.760 Then if, if fairness and safety still matter, do you split the men's division, men who begin

00:25:59.280 taking hormone blockers before puberty and men who take HRT after puberty?

00:26:04.220 If you really want to get fair.

00:26:05.880 And sports are the one place that you go to abandon all identities.

00:26:08.540 We don't look at religion.

00:26:09.440 We don't look at race.

00:26:10.340 We don't look at sexual orientation.

00:26:11.960 And, and rightfully so, because those things don't matter when we're playing sports.

00:26:16.280 Well, look at the blowback against Caitlin Clark, right?

00:26:18.760 I know.

00:26:19.120 Like somehow she's committed a sin just by being so popular with the WNBA.

00:26:22.480 Just by existing.

00:26:23.360 Well, now off to the WNBA. 1.00

00:26:26.300 Well, what do you think of the testosterone things?

00:26:30.300 In the book you address, what does it really mean when there's a biological male who's taking

00:26:35.360 estrogen to lower his testosterone or puberty block, whatever, they're trying to lower their

00:26:39.960 testosterone.

00:26:40.380 And then there's still many athletic bodies that say that'll work.

00:26:44.280 Yes.

00:26:45.200 I think that's the most misogynistic thing.

00:26:49.180 Reducing women down to a testosterone threshold. 0.55

00:26:51.960 Is that all we are?

00:26:52.840 Is that what makes someone a woman? 1.00

00:26:54.080 How much testosterone you have? 1.00

00:26:55.540 What a silly standard. 0.98

00:26:58.120 So by no means.

00:26:59.260 And even if, even if a male could get to zero nanomoles per liter of testosterone, which

00:27:06.140 is incredibly dangerous for a man to, to reach and achieve these levels that are being set

00:27:11.060 by these governing bodies.

00:27:13.200 But nonetheless, if a man could get to zero, there are still advantages that males possess

00:27:19.280 that testosterone doesn't affect that women will never have like lung capacity, like your 0.97

00:27:24.260 heart size, like your height, like your limb size.

00:27:26.720 It even sounds silly, but in swimming, your throat size matters.

00:27:31.620 This is a sport where you're grasping for air.

00:27:34.020 Men on average have a 40% larger throat than women.

00:27:38.460 Wow.

00:27:38.720 That's a huge advantage.

00:27:40.400 So these, I think the whole testosterone threshold, again, it's just incredibly misinformed

00:27:47.940 as to what it is to be a woman. 0.98

00:27:51.820 Yeah, it's silly. 0.96

00:27:53.140 I remember we did a show on sexual health.

00:27:55.860 We did an hour on men's and then we did an hour on women's.

00:27:58.800 And I was asking the expert about women taking testosterone because a lot of the women I know, 1.00

00:28:05.300 I do not take testosterone, but some of the women I know are taking it. 1.00

00:28:09.340 It helps with libido and whatever. 0.94

00:28:12.660 And they, she said, you, you can do it, but you certainly couldn't let your child get anywhere

00:28:17.240 near it because those patches are like powerful and you wouldn't want a child coming near you.

00:28:21.780 And I remember asking, well, what about, you know, your husband?

00:28:25.120 And she was making the point that if you had any idea how much testosterone is raging through

00:28:31.040 the average male body, your husband can rub the patch all over him and he's fine. 0.60

00:28:36.820 He's brimming with it.

00:28:38.420 The average man, not, not guys who have a problem, but brimming with, with testosterone.

00:28:42.680 And we're just not, we're just not.

00:28:45.120 And the refusal, because there's still many sports out there that don't require any lowering

00:28:48.880 of testosterone by these men like soccer, which soccer, um, yes, I I've, when talking about

00:28:56.200 swimming, I often forget the safety aspect of things because swimming isn't a sport where

00:29:01.060 you're colliding or running into one another, throwing something at one another, but in sports

00:29:06.760 like soccer or softball or volleyball, again, where you're hitting a ball at each other or

00:29:13.020 what have you, you do have to worry about safety.

00:29:16.320 So could you imagine on a soccer field, uh, a male running up, um, with his forceful and

00:29:23.240 powerful kick 10 times?

00:29:24.920 I imagine the amount of power a woman can exert with her kick kicking you in the shin or 1.00

00:29:31.500 volleyball.

00:29:31.920 We we've seen several instances of this now.

00:29:34.300 Yeah.

00:29:34.640 Um, what about Peyton McNabb in North Carolina?

00:29:37.460 Yes.

00:29:37.960 A high school senior who, uh, playing on a girl's team has a boy playing on the opposing team.

00:29:44.180 The boy jumps up, spikes the ball, hits Peyton in the face.

00:29:47.560 She's immediately knocked unconscious where she laid for, for minutes before finally coming 0.99

00:29:52.480 back around.

00:29:53.460 This was in September of 2022.

00:29:56.100 Still to this day.

00:29:57.580 I mean, almost two years later, a year and eight ish months later, she's partially paralyzed

00:30:02.680 on her right side.

00:30:04.360 Her vision is impaired.

00:30:05.680 She has to have special accommodations for testing at school because her memory is impaired.

00:30:10.060 She can't retain information like she once could.

00:30:12.500 And he's never apologized to her.

00:30:14.320 Oh no.

00:30:15.000 He's actually done the exact opposite and has continued to mock her through social media,

00:30:19.840 uh, messaged her and said, Oh my gosh, you know, you can't stop talking about me.

00:30:23.100 Can you, I'm living rent free in your head.

00:30:24.860 I mean, awful, but it goes to show the narcissism. 0.70

00:30:29.480 Yes.

00:30:29.880 My gosh.

00:30:30.540 This is why we have to fight.

00:30:32.320 This is why Riley is not in dental school right now, which was your plan.

00:30:37.340 Were you, what were you going to do exactly?

00:30:38.960 What was your, what was your dreams, which is, um, basically root canals.

00:30:43.620 Oh gosh.

00:30:44.440 I know.

00:30:45.040 Well, you're kind of doing that in some, in a different way, in a metaphorical way.

00:30:47.720 Yeah.

00:30:48.440 Getting to the root of the problem coming out of people's mouths.

00:30:50.660 That's right.

00:30:51.180 It's probably just as painful as one.

00:30:52.580 You, you never.

00:30:54.060 All right.

00:30:54.340 I'm going to take a break, but I want to get into your backstory.

00:30:56.060 Cause I, I love some of the stories in your book about you and your dad and creating

00:30:59.920 mental toughness.

00:31:00.740 All of this is with, these are the building blocks of the Riley gains.

00:31:03.460 We now know are all in there and there's some good advice on how to toughen up your

00:31:07.900 kid, lest he or she wind up being forced into activism on an important story or cause.

00:31:14.160 Her new book is called swimming against the current quick break back with Riley right

00:31:19.700 after this, go order today.

00:31:20.740 Swimming against the current Riley gains here with me.

00:31:23.240 Still Riley gains author of the brand new book.

00:31:25.840 It's out tomorrow.

00:31:26.560 Go get it now.

00:31:27.360 Swimming against the current.

00:31:29.620 And there's all sorts of amazing facts and stats and reality in this book about what's

00:31:34.840 really happening with the gender cult.

00:31:36.480 But it also has some fun stories about Riley and how she got here.

00:31:40.300 And you know, you're so young.

00:31:41.680 A lot of people may not know any of this stuff.

00:31:44.260 So tell us about mental toughness and how your dad made sure you had it.

00:31:49.220 Well, I'm so fortunate to have, I didn't realize this at the time, but of course, as you get

00:31:53.660 older, I realized now how fortunate I am to have two amazing parents who love each other

00:32:00.100 very much, who taught me how to be an independent thinker, how to call out an injustice when you

00:32:07.120 see it.

00:32:08.480 So I could not be more grateful for my parents who were both high level athletes.

00:32:12.680 My mom, she was a division one softball player. 1.00

00:32:14.660 My dad, he's an SEC Hall of Famer football player, went on to play for the Eagles.

00:32:21.780 It's been a good bit in the NFL.

00:32:23.480 And so them having that background inclined was a big part in me playing sports, I guess

00:32:31.360 I'll say.

00:32:32.380 But when I was young, probably eight years old, my dad, he did some different business

00:32:38.780 endeavors.

00:32:39.300 And so I went with him on a business trip to Memphis, Tennessee.

00:32:42.280 And I will never forget, we're at this hotel, I normally, of course, you know, never really

00:32:48.860 traveled with just my dad, it was always all of us as a family, but it was a fun little

00:32:52.120 bonding trip.

00:32:53.180 So we're at this hotel.

00:32:54.500 And he says, Riley, come, come down to the lobby with me.

00:32:57.140 And I'm like, Okay, you know, what are we doing?

00:32:59.700 He takes me to the the pool at this hotel.

00:33:02.880 It's outside.

00:33:03.720 It's in the middle of December.

00:33:05.040 And he's like, jump in.

00:33:06.460 I'm like, Dad, I'm not jumping in that pool.

00:33:09.140 It's freezing.

00:33:09.680 He pulled back the tarp.

00:33:10.560 He said, No, you're gonna jump in.

00:33:11.500 This is your first lesson of mental toughness.

00:33:14.400 You're going to jump in.

00:33:15.660 And you're not going to say you're cold.

00:33:17.500 You're not going to to shiver.

00:33:19.400 And I'll tell you when you can get out.

00:33:21.040 I'm like, Dad, this is child abuse.

00:33:22.740 You can't make me do that.

00:33:23.620 I'm calling mom.

00:33:25.800 But I listened to him.

00:33:26.940 I jumped in, confused, you know, what is this for?

00:33:30.940 Finally, after five minutes or so of treading in the water, he said, Okay, you can come

00:33:34.280 out.

00:33:34.760 And then we go back to the room.

00:33:36.280 I'm still shivering.

00:33:37.000 I'm like, Dad, what was that about?

00:33:39.380 He said that, like I said, you need to learn mental toughness because physical toughness.

00:33:44.140 Yeah, it's important.

00:33:45.100 But mental toughness will take you further.

00:33:48.460 There's no such thing as cold.

00:33:50.220 Riley, he said, there's such thing as an absence of heat.

00:33:52.540 But there's no such thing as cold.

00:33:54.500 It's a mental state.

00:33:55.480 You think you're cold.

00:33:56.380 He said, you're not really.

00:33:57.820 And I will never forget that.

00:33:59.040 It has stuck with me since.

00:34:00.580 And every time when I was swimming or practicing and I began to, you know, your legs burn, you

00:34:05.520 feel your body filling with lactic acid.

00:34:08.000 You're tired.

00:34:08.580 You're in pain.

00:34:09.160 I thought to myself, pain isn't real.

00:34:11.000 Just a feeling that I'm having.

00:34:12.400 It's fleeting.

00:34:12.900 It's in the moment, but not real.

00:34:16.240 So this is the difference between you and virtually everybody.

00:34:18.660 I mean, I remember talking to some Navy SEALs about this and that's how they get through

00:34:22.100 training.

00:34:22.500 Like, I don't feel the pain.

00:34:23.720 I don't feel the lactic acid.

00:34:24.860 I tried that at my very next workout and it was not true.

00:34:29.000 It's not true.

00:34:30.680 We mere mortals do feel pain.

00:34:33.360 But it's those lessons that I learned when I was young.

00:34:37.120 My dad was right because they have transcended beyond athletics.

00:34:42.160 I'm able to do what I do now with a smile on my face with an incredibly light heart, not

00:34:48.860 worrying, not caring, not feeling anxious or stressed about what we're up against.

00:34:55.820 Because I know what I'm standing for is the right thing.

00:34:59.000 This brings me to something I've always wanted to ask you.

00:35:01.840 So my audience knows I used to be on the wrong side of this whole issue.

00:35:06.460 You know, and I played clips of myself at NBC feeding into all of this.

00:35:11.080 You know, I was still in the mindset of be compassionate.

00:35:15.000 It's a very small group.

00:35:16.180 They're very badly bullied and using the pronouns.

00:35:18.300 Even when I launched the show, um, not so much on the other stuff, but on the pronouns,

00:35:22.700 I was still using, uh, when I launched the show.

00:35:24.920 And then I started, you know, I remember when you, I like, it was a defining moment for me

00:35:31.320 to watch you kind of go off on, it was, it was very powerful.

00:35:35.920 It was very fiery, but I needed to see that.

00:35:38.160 So I don't know if, if you know, just how many people you've inspired and influenced

00:35:43.220 since taking that stand.

00:35:45.700 That, that was a big decision for me to, to turn on the pronouns naturally.

00:35:49.500 And you know, like you, there've been so many women who've inspired me.

00:35:52.380 You're one of them, but Kelly J Keen, Helen Joyce, Abigail Schreier's book.

00:35:57.260 There's just been, you know, all these other great women who were to this party nice and

00:36:01.540 early and have been waving the flag saying, hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:36:05.220 Um, JK Rowling, how, how brave she's been all of it.

00:36:08.480 But I always wanted to ask you about when you were swimming and Leah Thomas, you found

00:36:15.920 out you're going to have to swim against him.

00:36:17.900 So what, how did your mind work at the time to say, I'm going to do it?

00:36:24.060 So we found out in about November of 2021, actually, let me take you a little further

00:36:29.820 back.

00:36:30.100 So I finished my junior year, um, at university of Kentucky, ultimately placing seventh in

00:36:35.680 the country, which it wasn't a best time, but I was proud of this.

00:36:39.700 You're top eight, you're an all American.

00:36:41.020 It's a pretty high honor, but I knew I was capable of more.

00:36:44.540 So it was kind of right then and there that I placed seventh, my junior year that I set

00:36:48.300 a goal for my senior year to win a national title.

00:36:50.520 And so I'm right on pace to achieve this goal about midway through my senior season.

00:36:55.640 I was ranked third in the nation in the 200 freestyle trailing the girl in second, a girl 0.98

00:36:59.980 I knew very well, uh, by a few one hundredths of a second.

00:37:04.140 But the swimmer who was leading the nation by body links, might add was a swimmer that

00:37:10.740 none of us had ever heard of before.

00:37:12.480 Not me, not my teammates, not my competitors, not my family, not my coaches, none of us.

00:37:16.900 It was the first time we became aware of a swimmer named Leah Thomas.

00:37:20.820 Lots of red flags at the time.

00:37:22.760 Keep in mind, we hadn't seen a photo of this person or else things probably would have been

00:37:25.940 a little more clear.

00:37:26.720 Um, but we really continued to stay in the dark until an article came out disclosing

00:37:33.980 that Leah Thomas is actually Will Thomas and swam three years on the men's team at UPenn

00:37:38.680 before deciding to switch to the women's team. 0.90

00:37:40.780 Whereas you said ranked, I mean, was mediocre at best.

00:37:44.820 Yeah.

00:37:45.120 He was a less than average male swimmer still competing at the division one level.

00:37:49.140 So obviously he was a good swimmer.

00:37:51.380 Yeah.

00:37:51.560 But just not compared to the other men, but not when it came to national rankings or achievements.

00:37:57.000 Um, when I found out about this, naturally we were shocked.

00:38:02.740 Um, but really when I think about how I felt, it was like this, this overwhelming sense of

00:38:08.480 relief, like, Oh, that makes sense.

00:38:12.180 Duh.

00:38:12.420 It's a man.

00:38:13.140 That's why he's beating everyone in the country by so much in multiple events.

00:38:16.820 Duh.

00:38:17.780 And I didn't think much about it because I thought surely, I mean, it didn't even cross

00:38:21.840 my mind that the NCAA wouldn't see a problem with this.

00:38:24.240 They won't let him compete with us at NCAAs that the pinnacle of our sport, they'll put

00:38:29.600 a policy in place.

00:38:30.560 I'm sure they already have one in place.

00:38:32.040 This isn't really an issue.

00:38:33.320 He's a man.

00:38:34.360 Uh, so I was, I was very relieved, um, until I found out that the NCAA did not see it that

00:38:40.580 way.

00:38:40.800 They didn't see it the same way that me, again, my teammates, my coaches, uh, anyone

00:38:45.120 with any amount of brain activity saw this issue.

00:38:47.480 They saw no problem with it, but even still those three weeks, I mentioned how we found

00:38:53.160 out about three weeks before that meet in March of 2022, even after finding out leading

00:38:58.840 up to that meet, I am almost ashamed to admit it, but I still felt this like sheer sense of

00:39:06.960 curiosity, almost intriguement.

00:39:09.100 You know, what is this going to look like?

00:39:10.760 Is he as tall as Instagram pictures make him look, uh, is he going to sandbag it?

00:39:15.720 Will he be in our locker room?

00:39:16.780 I mean, there were so many questions that we didn't have answers to that there was a

00:39:21.140 sense of intrigue, but I'm ashamed for feeling intrigued.

00:39:24.600 I really am because upon getting to that meet, um, seeing the tears that I saw from the girls

00:39:31.700 who placed ninth and 17th and missed out on being named an all American by one place, seeing

00:39:36.460 the tears from the moms in the stands watching as their daughters are being obliterated in

00:39:41.540 the sport that they once loved, feeling the extreme discomfort in the locker room, hearing

00:39:45.660 the whispers, cause that's what they were.

00:39:48.140 They were whispers of, of anger and frustration from these girls who just like myself had worked

00:39:54.560 our entire lives to get to this meet.

00:39:57.480 Uh, I remember specifically actually when my feelings really shifted because, um, this was

00:40:02.920 like a week long meet and you swim prelims in the morning.

00:40:05.620 You have to qualify top 16.

00:40:07.060 You come back that evening, you swim finals, and that's where you'll achieve your overall

00:40:10.520 national ranking.

00:40:11.680 And so that first day of competition, I'm watching prelims of the 500, um, which is the

00:40:18.340 event that Thomas would that evening go on to win a national title in, and I'm watching

00:40:22.060 prelims.

00:40:22.720 There's about eight heats or so.

00:40:24.780 Um, my team was sat next to Virginia tech.

00:40:27.320 One of the swimmers from Virginia tech, she swam in one of the earlier heats she had just

00:40:32.460 finished.

00:40:32.820 She came back to the pool deck, stood by me.

00:40:35.860 I knew her.

00:40:36.600 I didn't know her that well.

00:40:38.520 I really only knew her name and what event she swam.

00:40:41.600 Uh, we're watching the final heat swim.

00:40:44.400 This is the event where she knew she was right on the cusp of making top 16.

00:40:49.320 The final heat concludes.

00:40:51.280 Thomas is swimming.

00:40:52.080 Thomas dominates.

00:40:52.940 She looks up at the scoreboard and she realized she placed 17th.

00:40:55.780 And I will never forget because she looked at me again, not even really knowing her.

00:41:00.740 And she grabbed me, my hand with tears running down her face.

00:41:04.660 And she said, Riley, I just got beat by someone who didn't even have to try.

00:41:07.920 I mean, I have chills telling it again.

00:41:09.420 I have to have chills listening.

00:41:10.660 And that's when those feelings shifted to utter heartbreak.

00:41:14.180 And I realized the severity of what we were dealing with.

00:41:17.180 This wasn't just a circus or a funny ha ha, like SNL skit moment anymore.

00:41:21.020 This was real life. 0.86

00:41:22.260 And that's when, that's when I decided what cowards we have leading us, our coaches, even

00:41:29.160 coaches who I love and respect and who knew this was objectively wrong.

00:41:34.720 But then it was very hard for you to say anything about it as the competitors that they knew

00:41:38.360 what would happen to you.

00:41:39.180 Of course.

00:41:40.000 Yeah.

00:41:40.400 But they were more worried about their own heights.

00:41:41.920 Of course.

00:41:42.760 And again, I understand because the risk and the threats, they're real.

00:41:45.620 I'm not sitting here saying that it's easy.

00:41:47.420 Well, actually I am.

00:41:48.480 It is easy to say that there are two sexes.

00:41:51.300 That's not hard to say.

00:41:52.540 But very few have said it, right?

00:41:53.960 Paula Scanlon spoke out.

00:41:55.940 You Penn swimmer, you spoke out.

00:41:58.320 But almost no one, no one else that I know of.

00:42:01.380 No, there's been very, very few.

00:42:03.360 People think it's either, either, of course, they're terrified.

00:42:06.820 They're scared.

00:42:07.340 They believe it when, when their universities or administrators tell them they won't get

00:42:10.740 a job or they'll not, they won't get into grad school or they'll lose their friends.

00:42:14.400 Or people genuinely think it's not their problem.

00:42:16.940 They think, oh, well, I'm done competing.

00:42:18.380 It happened to me, but I'm moving on.

00:42:21.080 It's, it's onto the next thing.

00:42:22.200 It won't happen again.

00:42:24.060 Really?

00:42:25.040 No, it's incredibly selfish.

00:42:26.580 Yeah.

00:42:27.140 And the, the, there's a story out of Oregon that's, I saw, I know you've seen it and have

00:42:31.880 tweeted about it, but this is kind of reminding me of this.

00:42:35.100 It's a track star.

00:42:37.040 There were the Oregon track and field state championships were this past weekend, high

00:42:40.760 school track and a biological male 10th grader at McDaniel high school ran.

00:42:47.060 He ran as a woman. 0.85

00:42:49.860 This guy comes out and wins.

00:42:54.300 He just won the 200 meter state championship.

00:42:57.800 He was booed.

00:42:59.580 Thank God.

00:43:00.760 When he crossed the finish line against the girls, he was booed when they announced the

00:43:05.160 first place winner, because these girls fully understand, understood what had just happened

00:43:09.060 to them, similar to your 17th place friend.

00:43:12.020 And this guy came out of nowhere too.

00:43:16.480 He had a background in weight training reports, the Washington times, but had not even competed

00:43:23.060 in track and field before joining the girls team this season.

00:43:28.440 And now he's a state champion, the fastest girl or woman in the state of Oregon, the whole

00:43:34.740 state.

00:43:35.340 And he's never ran before.

00:43:36.780 It's the same story every single time, mediocre men, less than mediocre men become record smashers

00:43:44.400 on the women's side. 0.98

00:43:45.540 It's the same story every single time.

00:43:48.800 Again, it breaks my heart.

00:43:50.380 I think we should take a minute and recognize the real state champion, Aster Jones, the girl

00:43:55.960 who got second, but the rightful state champion.

00:43:59.800 That's right.

00:44:00.040 He also plays second in the 400 meter behind a girl who is going on to be an SEC runner.

00:44:07.600 So, I mean, these aren't scrubs.

00:44:08.780 It's not like these girls are bad at running. 1.00

00:44:12.520 No, these girls are incredible. 1.00

00:44:15.540 And him being mediocre is still able to beat even the most, I mean, the fastest girls in 0.94

00:44:21.640 the state.

00:44:21.980 Oh, the mother of one of the female runners told the Publica, a publication, that the Oregon

00:44:30.760 School Activities Association threatened to ban any students who complained about this

00:44:36.800 male.

00:44:37.700 She said, my daughter is in her senior year.

00:44:40.200 She has to compete against this person who just won at state and took spots away from our 0.80

00:44:46.920 girls, and he doesn't deserve it.

00:44:49.280 He needs to be with the men.

00:44:50.720 Uh, and you know, more and more, what we're being told by some is the girls don't mind. 0.59

00:44:57.720 They didn't say anything.

00:44:58.680 Look at the UPenn swimmers.

00:44:59.900 They didn't mind.

00:45:01.120 It's just you bigots who complain.

00:45:02.780 They're much more tolerant.

00:45:03.700 And look at Megan Rapinoe. 0.60

00:45:05.060 She, she says it's fine.

00:45:07.620 Like this isn't happening.

00:45:08.540 They're not just entering to steal the medals.

00:45:10.560 So take a seat.

00:45:12.300 It's so silly when people say that, because first of all, it's people who have never played

00:45:16.380 sports in their entire lives who are saying that. 0.65

00:45:18.440 Um, and second of all, that could not be further from the truth.

00:45:22.260 Um, again, 16 of those UPenn swimmers signed on to an email saying that they weren't okay

00:45:27.080 with this, but their voices aren't heard.

00:45:29.380 They're stifled.

00:45:30.120 Their speech is stifled.

00:45:31.360 Um, they're forced into submission, um, through emotional blackmail and gaslighting, being told

00:45:37.260 they literally have blood on their hands.

00:45:39.660 If they speak out telling them that they will be murderers, that's why these girls are quiet 1.00

00:45:44.820 and the loss of everything they've trained their whole lives for everything.

00:45:48.020 Exactly.

00:45:48.600 And the number of hours in the pool, I can only imagine.

00:45:51.000 Oh gosh.

00:45:51.960 Um, yeah, it's, I mean, at the collegiate level, we practice six hours every single day

00:45:57.020 with three of those hours being before 8am.

00:45:59.060 Um, so you wake up, you go to the pool, you swim from 5am to 8am, you go to class, you

00:46:04.300 come back, you practice again from 1.30 to 4.30, ate your dinner, did your homework, iced

00:46:09.360 your shoulder, went to bed, woke up, did it all again the next day.

00:46:12.500 It's very easy for people on the outside to say you should, you should stand up.

00:46:16.580 And that's why it's so hard for those girls. 1.00

00:46:17.900 You know, you showed the shot putters, we talked about them in West Virginia, but it's

00:46:21.580 really, ideally this comes from the outside.

00:46:23.780 It comes from women and men totally on the outside to stand up for these athletes who

00:46:29.700 shouldn't be asked to sacrifice everything to stand up against the insanity.

00:46:34.300 Riley, you're so brave.

00:46:36.380 I'm so happy you exist and that you've taken this on and that you're not in dental school

00:46:41.300 and not doing endodontics or whatever.

00:46:44.380 I'm thrilled.

00:46:45.280 This was your calling and your purpose.

00:46:47.040 And I can't wait to see what you do with all this talent and drive.

00:46:51.140 Well, I'm inspired by women like you. 1.00

00:46:53.340 So thank you.

00:46:54.960 Again, this was long overdue, but I'm thrilled to be just next with you in this fight with

00:46:59.040 you.

00:46:59.660 And I imagine we'll see each other again soon.

00:47:01.600 Right on.

00:47:04.020 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

00:47:06.140 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - June 18, 2024

What She SAW in That Locker Room ｜ Riley Gaines x Megyn Kelly - The FULL Interview

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