The Megyn Kelly Show - What the Silicon Valley Bank Collapse Means for the U.S. Economy, Whether Tom Brady Will Un-Retire…Again, with Steve Forbes and Marcellus Wiley ｜ Ep. 511

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00:00:30.620 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.540 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.100 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.800 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.360 Live from Montana for day two.

00:00:47.940 Coming up, an in-depth conversation with former NFL star

00:00:51.180 Marcellus Wiley.

00:00:52.740 Looking forward to talking to him.

00:00:53.920 He is not afraid to touch any topic.

00:00:56.300 He's just as bold when it comes to his commentary

00:00:58.520 as he was on the football field.

00:01:01.120 And you will hear from him in just a moment.

00:01:02.760 We're going to talk about the latest on Tom Brady.

00:01:04.460 Is he un-retiring?

00:01:06.040 Colin Kaepernick hitting his own parents as racists?

00:01:10.800 You can always count on that guy to take the high road.

00:01:12.700 And the issue of transgender athletes.

00:01:15.620 An update for you on that Vermont school that refused to have its girls play against other

00:01:20.660 teams.

00:01:21.820 Another team in Vermont that had a transgender player on it.

00:01:24.360 Guess how they're being punished.

00:01:25.320 We'll get to it all.

00:01:25.920 So, but first, we're going to take a look at where things stand today after the collapse

00:01:30.900 of Silicon Valley Bank.

00:01:32.880 Wall Street and bank stocks look a little more stable today, but the Consumer Price Index

00:01:37.160 report for February showed prices remaining stubbornly high.

00:01:41.440 And that could mean more interest rate hikes, which is in part how Silicon Valley Bank got

00:01:47.580 into the trouble it was in.

00:01:48.860 And Fed Chairman Jerome Powell, you know, there's questions about whether he knows what he's

00:01:56.000 doing.

00:01:56.500 Our next guest says he's clueless on what to do about all of this.

00:01:59.860 And that guest is Steve Forbes.

00:02:01.980 He's Chairman and Editor-in-Chief of Forbes Media.

00:02:05.000 Steve, great to see you again.

00:02:05.840 How are you doing?

00:02:07.120 Good to be with you.

00:02:08.160 Thank you.

00:02:09.140 Right now, I'd rather be in Montana than some other parts of the country.

00:02:13.400 I have to say, it's pretty gorgeous out here.

00:02:15.440 And the latest was we're expecting possibly 30 inches of snow over the next 24 hours.

00:02:21.900 So just another day in Montana.

00:02:24.360 Yes.

00:02:25.000 Well, character building.

00:02:26.780 That's right.

00:02:27.440 Out here with the fam when the kids are on spring break.

00:02:30.100 So, but I'm still at it.

00:02:31.320 And I'm glad I am because this SVP problem is pretty pernicious and very smart people are

00:02:37.620 in deep disagreement on what is the proper course here.

00:02:41.020 Um, we had a great debate yesterday with, uh, David Sachs and Vivek Ramaswamy on whether

00:02:46.360 this bailout or whatever you want to call it was proper, but now we're learning more

00:02:50.320 about the bank and there's more in-depth look in some publications.

00:02:54.100 National Review had a good piece today talking about how these are, these are very elite

00:02:58.240 investors who are in this SVP, SVPB for the most part, and they did not deserve a bailout

00:03:04.600 and they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into and why should we save them

00:03:09.440 from the consequences of their bad decision making.

00:03:11.980 As we find out this bank was super focused on woke initiatives and for the past eight

00:03:18.340 months or eight of the past 12 or 15 months, didn't even have a person in the risk management

00:03:23.720 department overseeing risk.

00:03:25.880 Nobody was making sure that when you kick the tires, they had air in them.

00:03:30.740 They were more worried about is, is the seat made of vegan leather?

00:03:35.900 Have we made sure under the hood is as green as possible?

00:03:39.700 And so I sense a growing resentment in some corners for the fact that they were saved at

00:03:44.860 all.

00:03:45.500 Where do you stand on it?

00:03:47.160 Well, uh, a couple of things.

00:03:49.000 One is in terms of, uh, the bank itself, they violated the basic rule of banking, which you

00:03:55.100 learn in the first day in class in business school and the banking course.

00:03:58.140 And that is miss the danger of mismatching assets and liabilities.

00:04:03.300 Uh, as you know, deposits can be withdrawn instantly, uh, long-term assets, uh, not so

00:04:08.760 much, they may be valuable, but the way they have a longer maturity and people want their

00:04:13.840 cash, you have a problem.

00:04:15.400 And so, uh, they, uh, mismatched their book.

00:04:18.140 Uh, they had, for example, 10 years of, uh, mortgages worth $80 billion yielding 1.8%.

00:04:24.800 If you're going to go out long-term to get a higher yield, you better insure that, what

00:04:29.740 they call hedging.

00:04:30.740 They didn't do that.

00:04:31.960 So that's another gross violation of simple banking.

00:04:34.620 If you're going out long-term, you cover yourself, you insure your, you get insurance

00:04:38.620 in effect.

00:04:39.260 So if something does go wrong, uh, you recover most of the money instantly.

00:04:43.480 They didn't do that.

00:04:44.600 And so for over a year where the federal reserve has made very clear interest rates were going

00:04:49.680 up, banks and others had plenty of time to, uh, get their books in order to reflect the

00:04:54.800 new reality that a generation of, uh, zero interest rates was coming to an end.

00:04:59.680 Uh, so the bank management is going to be rightly roasted on that.

00:05:03.160 But the reason that one thing to keep in mind though, the reason everyone, everyone focuses

00:05:07.760 on, uh, the, the rich people in Silicon Valley, the reason the bank did so well is it provided

00:05:12.800 unique services to startup companies.

00:05:15.160 You've got better service there, better people understood what your business was better than

00:05:20.720 any other bank in the country.

00:05:22.180 That's why it grew so rapidly.

00:05:23.820 The danger came, and this is where you get to the government's role in this disaster was

00:05:28.700 when the federal reserve started to print a lot of money.

00:05:31.100 Uh, you had the lockdowns.

00:05:32.560 It's also created inflation.

00:05:34.280 And so in the last couple of years, the bank's deposits, uh, almost a quadruple, uh, went from

00:05:39.640 50 some odd billion to over 180 billion.

00:05:42.000 There's no way human beings can put that much money to work productively.

00:05:46.020 So what a normal bank would do is you buy short-term treasuries.

00:05:50.000 Uh, they instead went out on the yield curve, as they say, uh, trying to get yield.

00:05:54.840 And so, uh, 1.8% for 10 years, a few months ago might've looked good, but you can get, uh,

00:06:00.500 almost a 4%, three and a half, 4% on a 10 year treasury today.

00:06:04.460 So their losses, book losses.

00:06:07.560 So, uh, they get their knuckles wrapped there.

00:06:09.780 And the idea that they're going to be able to keep any bonuses they paid for themselves,

00:06:13.560 that's going to be clawed back instantly.

00:06:15.780 The other thing to keep in mind though, is that, uh, we have to examine, and I think the

00:06:20.280 Republicans will examine is what's happening with the FDIC.

00:06:24.540 This bank had enough assets, uh, had a very good, uh, loan, a book of loans that they could

00:06:31.100 have sold themselves very easily or taken in a Warren Buffett or a venture capitalist

00:06:35.880 who would put in equity, uh, shareholders would have taken a huge hit, but at least you

00:06:40.740 had a bank around.

00:06:41.760 And what, what did the FDIC drag its feet on finding a buyer, even though there are plenty

00:06:47.580 around who knew, uh, the Silicon Valley bank would have been glad to pick up pieces of

00:06:52.020 it.

00:06:52.640 And they did the same thing with signature bank in New York.

00:06:55.800 So the FDIC looks like was playing games in terms of, uh, bank consolidations.

00:07:01.140 Uh, they don't like bigness.

00:07:02.700 Uh, so they may have dragged their feet on that.

00:07:05.280 So there's plenty of blame to go around, but we have to keep in mind though, is if this

00:07:10.380 bank had actually gone down, you would have had a domino effect on the rest of the economy,

00:07:16.140 on the banking system, innocent banks would have been dragged under, or the feds would

00:07:21.040 have had to put up literally hundreds of billions, if not trillions to assure up the

00:07:25.260 banking system.

00:07:26.020 Cause everyone would have been withdrawing their deposits.

00:07:28.500 I remember back in 2008, when one money fund, uh, broke the buck, so to speak, instead of

00:07:35.160 being valued at a dollar, well, I lost a few cents cause they made the same kind of mistake

00:07:39.200 Silicon Valley bank made.

00:07:40.800 They went for yield instead of safety.

00:07:43.640 And, uh, the whole, uh, whole, uh, money market fund industry suddenly was hit with the

00:07:48.840 equivalent of a modern bank run.

00:07:50.300 And so the fed ended up having to a backstop every, for a while, every money market fund

00:07:55.480 to prevent a collapse going into the financial equivalent of cardiac arrest.

00:07:59.380 So, uh, the, the, the, making sure you didn't have this, uh, hit the rest of the financial

00:08:05.360 system was a good thing.

00:08:07.080 And the thing to keep in mind too, which is why we're not going to be like 2008 and the

00:08:11.580 particulars is that, uh, the banking system today has more capital, more reserves than

00:08:18.000 they've ever had before.

00:08:19.200 Uh, they're brimming with reserves.

00:08:21.380 Let me jump in.

00:08:21.800 Let me jump in.

00:08:22.340 I get it.

00:08:22.780 I get that.

00:08:23.640 But, but why?

00:08:24.500 Why, because one of the things Vivek was saying was, okay, so we need to promise that we're

00:08:30.220 going to guarantee people's investments, uh, or their, their deposits at their banks, more

00:08:34.580 than 250,000.

00:08:35.720 So the FDIC can step in now and say, God, terrible thing that happened at a Silicon Valley

00:08:39.580 bank.

00:08:40.060 But don't worry.

00:08:41.240 We won't let that happen to you.

00:08:42.860 If you're at a small to midsize regional bank, we're going to, we're going to up the

00:08:47.340 insurance that everybody has, but buy to Silicon Valley bank, right?

00:08:52.220 Like his point was, why are we saving them?

00:08:54.500 We can, we can restore consumer confidence in banks, including small ones and mid ones,

00:08:59.980 um, just by offering a new guarantee.

00:09:02.560 We do not have to save this bank from the consequences of its bad decision-making.

00:09:07.840 Well, uh, you would take down then, uh, hundreds of startups that had their cash parked there.

00:09:13.540 And at a time, why do we care?

00:09:15.200 But why do we care, Steve?

00:09:16.560 Cause like the argument is, and I'm not taking a position on it, but the argument is they,

00:09:20.480 these are smart investors.

00:09:21.700 They made the decision.

00:09:22.620 They put their money where they put it.

00:09:24.600 And the other argument was most of these, you point out are startups backed by VC firms.

00:09:30.220 And so if the VC firms wanted to save these companies, they could.

00:09:34.280 Uh, but the money is, if the money's parked at a bank that, uh, is going under, uh, that

00:09:40.400 becomes problematical.

00:09:41.700 We're at a time when we want more startups, not fewer.

00:09:44.920 And in terms of the bank itself, the banking system, as you know, is closely interrelated.

00:09:50.660 And, uh, so, uh, uh, making sure of this bank, uh, failure did not, uh, ricochet to the rest

00:09:56.780 of the banking system is a smart decision.

00:09:59.880 Again, uh, the good thing they did was they wiped out the shareholders, wipe out the unsecured,

00:10:04.720 uh, uh, debtors, uh, security holders, and, uh, management is going to get it.

00:10:11.620 I guarantee you on the management, unlike what happened after 2008, uh, this, this management

00:10:16.840 is going to, uh, go over the skewers and they're not going to be allowed to keep any of the

00:10:20.540 money they've taken out in recent weeks.

00:10:22.920 So in terms, in terms of the bank itself, uh, if you want to, uh, the, the VCs had their

00:10:28.580 money parked in the bank.

00:10:29.980 So if the, if, if, if the bank is, uh, uh, if you can't access that cash, you've got a

00:10:35.620 lot of, uh, startups that are going to go down at a time when we want more startups,

00:10:39.520 we're in a technological race with China.

00:10:42.020 So I think in terms of the, uh, the bank itself, you can, uh, do, uh, you could have, you could

00:10:47.200 have actually, in terms of saving the bank again, there are a lot of assets there that,

00:10:51.860 uh, other banks would have been gladly willing to buy and why the FDIC was mishandled.

00:10:57.160 Well, wait, but you want to blame the FDIC, but wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, it works

00:11:02.540 better if it's back and forth.

00:11:03.460 So you want to blame the FDIC, but what about the CEO of the bank?

00:11:06.260 Because there's a report today as a CNN saying, well, let me, let me tee it up, Steve.

00:11:11.020 Let me see it that, um, so the, some of the employees are very angry with this CEO.

00:11:15.220 He's now been removed, Greg Becker for making it public in the first place that they were

00:11:20.520 facing a $2.25 billion shortfall that they needed to raise that kind of money.

00:11:25.300 Why would he say it publicly, which in part caused the run on the bank rather than just

00:11:29.800 raising it privately, rather than going to some other bank privately and saying, do you

00:11:34.260 want to save Silicon Valley bank with this money?

00:11:36.260 Well, that's right.

00:11:38.480 And, uh, so, uh, it's, as I mentioned earlier, it's both sides management made huge mistakes

00:11:44.080 and not hedging, ensuring if they decide to go out long and try for yield.

00:11:49.120 And in terms of, uh, the rescue last week, uh, there, again, there are plenty of people

00:11:54.120 willing to buy that bank, but this guy, Becker and his team chose to act like a deer in the

00:11:59.140 headlights.

00:11:59.740 So, uh, they, they, they bear a large responsibility.

00:12:02.860 Again, the bank has a lot of great assets and there've been a lot of people out there who

00:12:07.320 know how to deal with these things.

00:12:08.720 We've been glad to buy into them.

00:12:10.600 Uh, just like Warren Buffett saved general electric and some other companies in 2008, uh, you

00:12:15.940 paid a price for it, but, uh, you, you got rescued and the amount of money they needed

00:12:20.540 to make up their equity shortfall was a peanuts compared to, uh, what, uh, what, uh, the, the

00:12:26.600 losses that ended up happening.

00:12:28.240 So bank management, uh, deserves a lot of the blame.

00:12:32.340 There was no reason why they couldn't have just quietly said to the regulators and to,

00:12:36.360 to, uh, VCs and to other banks, we got a short-term problem.

00:12:40.300 It's going to cost X billion.

00:12:42.040 And there have been a plenty of people at the right price would have been quite willing

00:12:46.000 to step in and buy and do what it took to prevent a massive failure.

00:12:50.880 And this is where, though, it gets to what the FDIC did.

00:12:53.880 Why didn't they try to facilitate that instead of dragging their feet?

00:12:57.580 So there's a lot of blame to go around and ultimately, ultimately getting beyond the

00:13:01.820 particulars of this disaster is why we're the central banks of the world and our treasury

00:13:06.580 department for years, having a policy of no interest rates.

00:13:12.420 And when you distort the market, we all know what happens when you have rent control.

00:13:16.520 Larry Summers once said, rather indelicately, there are two ways to destroy a city.

00:13:20.660 One is to bomb it and the other is to put in rent control.

00:13:23.280 And, uh, what the central banks did after 2008 was they put in the equivalent of rent

00:13:29.160 control and interest rates, sent them to levels that never seen before in human history.

00:13:33.160 That's had two consequences, which is why I'm worried about the future short-term.

00:13:37.920 A lot of countries went heavily, heavily in debt because it was free money for the politicians

00:13:42.800 to spend.

00:13:43.780 Japan, for example, has a national debt twice that proportionally as the United States.

00:13:48.780 A lot of developing countries went, uh, uh, binging, a lot of companies that could, uh,

00:13:55.000 borrow even solvent great companies like Apple, which has a huge cashflow ended up borrowing

00:14:01.120 over a hundred billion.

00:14:02.620 Why?

00:14:03.040 Because the money was virtually free and any interest was tax deductible.

00:14:07.100 So, uh, they, they use it to pay dividends, buying stock and all that kind of stuff.

00:14:11.940 And, uh, so the fed and the other banks destroyed the market.

00:14:15.280 So it's a critical reason why we've had punk growth rates under Trump started to get, to

00:14:20.160 get some growth rates.

00:14:21.120 Let me jump in, Steve.

00:14:21.880 Let me jump in.

00:14:22.420 Let me jump in.

00:14:23.560 I get it.

00:14:23.920 I get it.

00:14:24.200 I get your point.

00:14:24.800 Let me, I want to move the discussion forward because we only have you for a block.

00:14:28.120 Um, so the, the, one of the reasons that the markets actually took an upturn for a

00:14:32.700 bet yesterday was people were speculating that the feds would not issue another rate hike

00:14:37.020 now on this, on the interest rates because of what was happening at Silicon Valley bank.

00:14:40.740 The reports were yesterday, we lost a hundred billion dollars wiped off of us bank's value

00:14:45.600 and what was being described as a bloodbath on wall street.

00:14:48.280 But there was some hopeful speculation that all of this would stop, um, the fed from raising

00:14:54.580 interest rates again.

00:14:55.420 However, today we see inflation is basically holding steady or we're at 6% again.

00:15:00.300 It's just a tick down barely from last month.

00:15:02.840 And so that's what the fed has been raising the rates to try to stop.

00:15:06.340 And so now there's speculation, maybe it won't stop him.

00:15:09.700 Maybe this crisis will continue because the interest rates don't seem to be budging much.

00:15:14.920 The inflation, the inflation does not seem to be budging much.

00:15:19.180 Uh, well, uh, the federal reserve, uh, the big problem there, and that's shared by most

00:15:24.140 economists and all other central bankers is they believe the way you fight inflation is

00:15:28.980 by depressing an economy, uh, making people poor, trying to increase unemployment.

00:15:34.180 And that's not the way you fight inflation.

00:15:36.700 Uh, the way, uh, the, the definition of inflation is when you lower the value of your dollar,

00:15:42.540 in this case, the dollar, lower the value of your currency, usually by creating too much

00:15:46.580 of it.

00:15:47.180 So you don't, and back in the seventies and early eighties, we went through repeated recessions

00:15:52.820 to fight inflation.

00:15:54.080 What finally conquered the inflation was not a bad recession was when after the 81, 82 recession,

00:16:00.460 uh, the federal reserve started to stabilize the value of the dollar relatively instead

00:16:05.440 of trashing it.

00:16:06.420 And then we had a government that was cutting taxes, doing deregulation and allowing the

00:16:11.380 economy to boom.

00:16:12.540 Uh, this government is doing the opposite.

00:16:14.740 They want to raise taxes.

00:16:15.860 They're piling on regulations, doing everything they can to throw a sand into the gears of the

00:16:20.540 economy, even though they say they want it to grow, they're doing everything possible

00:16:24.020 to stop it.

00:16:24.820 And, uh, you have a federal reserve that totally misunderstands inflation.

00:16:29.260 Inflation is not, there's something in economics called the Phillips curve.

00:16:33.880 It's not a baseball pitch.

00:16:35.080 It's a theory that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that you want lower inflation, you

00:16:39.460 have to have higher unemployment.

00:16:40.720 If you want lower unemployment, you have to have higher inflation experience shows that's

00:16:43.940 absolute nonsense, but at the federal reserve, it's wholly writ.

00:16:47.320 So, uh, they may back off on, uh, trashing the economy, uh, this round, but, uh, that if

00:16:54.780 they go back at it, we're going to have a troubled economy.

00:16:57.860 I don't know whether the economic theologians will ever call it a recession, but people are

00:17:01.880 in for hard times.

00:17:02.920 And because a lot of companies and some banks, uh, got addicted to low interest rates because

00:17:08.320 they seem to be around forever.

00:17:09.720 You saw in Britain, their pension funds had a disaster in the fall because they were trying

00:17:14.460 to reach for yield and, uh, when rates went up, oopsie daisy, the government in effect

00:17:19.000 had to bail them out.

00:17:20.140 And so, uh, what you're going to see here, a lot of companies, uh, uh, that, uh, depended

00:17:25.560 on free money are going to get in trouble in the next few months.

00:17:29.500 So the federal reserve does not know how to find the beginning of something, not the end.

00:17:33.460 Okay.

00:17:33.880 Let me switch gears and tell you that we just got this breaking news in, um, the collapse

00:17:38.280 of Silicon Valley bank is now under investigation by the justice department.

00:17:41.520 Uh, they are in the early stages of investigating it.

00:17:45.000 Fox news confirming the wall street journal first reported this morning saying the sec is

00:17:49.320 also investigating in particular, the government probes will look into stock sales that the

00:17:54.220 bank's financial officers made days before the bank collapsed.

00:17:57.980 We were told by some reporting that those were automated, um, you know, pre-scheduled sales

00:18:04.740 of stock by the executives, but they made millions off of them.

00:18:07.500 Um, so the justice department will look into whether there was fraud, whether there was

00:18:11.580 other, um, there were other misdeeds, but that leads me to another question I have, which

00:18:16.120 is in much in the same way we had, uh, Arthur Anderson collapse after Enron went down, right?

00:18:22.180 Because it was, uh, the accounting firm for Enron and had given it all these clean bills

00:18:26.220 of health.

00:18:26.840 And now we know that that was not true.

00:18:28.480 So KPMG, as it turns out, another big accounting firm, 14 days before it collapsed, gave the

00:18:37.360 Silicon Valley bank a clean bill of health.

00:18:39.840 They signed off on the audit and they're saying, oh, well, we weren't looking at current day.

00:18:44.760 You know, the audit looks back on the previous 2022 year, but that doesn't save it.

00:18:50.100 It's also supposed to be looking at whether there was anything in between the close of that

00:18:54.140 year and the current issuance of the audit report that would change the clean bill of

00:18:59.320 health that it's offering that it's not going to be able to save itself by saying, oh, we

00:19:03.060 were only looking backward and we didn't, you know, look up to present day.

00:19:06.500 So how can our accounting firms get it so wrong?

00:19:09.320 I would be remiss if I didn't mention Forbes, Forbes also a magazine, not you, um, put Silicon

00:19:16.640 Valley bank on its annual list of America's best banks just weeks before regulators, regulators

00:19:21.000 seized control. You are not KPMG, but why, why wasn't this seen, you know, by KPMG, by

00:19:27.920 you guys, by more people who are supposed to raise the alarm?

00:19:30.440 Well, on, uh, on, uh, the, our, our, our side, KPG can explain themselves, but on our

00:19:36.620 side, we took numbers, the latest numbers, which was the end of the third quarter and

00:19:41.020 use nine metrics. And there was nothing in those publicly disclosed metrics that had the

00:19:46.100 huge mismatch between the liabilities and assets. That's something that should have been

00:19:50.700 known internally and certainly by the auditors, but the public information was not there,

00:19:55.460 which is why stock analysts, uh, didn't see that, that kind of problem. But the thing

00:20:00.040 is, yes, have those investigations of management and the accountants, but also don't let the

00:20:05.740 FDIC and the federal reserve off the hook. Uh, the FDIC is in the business of, uh, making

00:20:11.580 sure that when a bank, a big bank gets in trouble, uh, that you contain the trouble, that

00:20:16.200 you sell the assets, uh, usually there are assets there that can be sold. And, uh, with the Silicon

00:20:21.460 Valley bank, there are plenty of assets. And, uh, why wasn't that done? Why did the FDIC drag it

00:20:27.020 to switch? So, uh, let's have a thorough investigation, a 360 degree investigation,

00:20:32.100 not just saying bad man. Do you, do you feel like you, you, like the magazine, perhaps the

00:20:38.560 investigator there, the KPMD, do you feel like you were actively misled by the company?

00:20:42.540 No. Well, uh, we, we, we took the numbers that were there and, uh, the numbers, uh, the number,

00:20:49.480 the public, those numbers, uh, don't give you, uh, in terms of, uh, the, the assets, terms of, uh,

00:20:55.480 what they have in terms of, uh, hedging and things like that. So, uh, the bank itself, probably, uh,

00:21:01.780 what the bank has to answer for is they, they knew for a year interest rates were going up.

00:21:07.320 So if they wanted to go out in the yield curve, uh, why did they go so far and why didn't they

00:21:13.540 hedge and why, when they got in trouble? Yeah. And why didn't, and why didn't they, uh, when they

00:21:19.420 got in trouble, why didn't they seek a buyer? There are plenty of, uh, funds out there, plenty

00:21:24.300 of banks willing to buy distressed assets to get the deal. Okay. Here's the other question. Um,

00:21:30.480 why, why should I believe that the consumers are not going to wind up funding this bailout? You

00:21:37.160 know, they say that, Oh, the, the government's going to pay for it. Basically they're saying

00:21:41.580 they're going to go into this bank insurance fund and they're going to use that money to pay to,

00:21:44.920 to, for the, this bank and paying back these depositors, their money. And then they say,

00:21:49.040 don't worry, we're going to refill that special insurance fund by a quote, special assessment

00:21:53.600 that we will issue on the banks. So the big bad banks are going to pay for this. Well,

00:21:59.040 where do the big bad banks get their money? Hmm. Let me think. Oh, for me, from us.

00:22:05.480 That's why, for example, when they talk about, uh, uh, hitting, uh, businesses, uh, for taxes,

00:22:10.560 where do the businesses get the taxes from? They get it from, uh, workers, shareholders,

00:22:14.820 and big, big time from customers. It doesn't grow on trees. So the government is dissembling here

00:22:20.260 saying it's not going to, it's going to be costless. Yes. FDIC has some cash, but that was to

00:22:26.520 cover $250,000 of liabilities, not the unlimited liabilities that we have here. So in terms of,

00:22:33.540 uh, though paying for it again, if you have a proper sale of, uh, the assets of those two big

00:22:39.180 banks, a lot of that will be covered by a proper sale. Again, this is stuff that we've done before

00:22:44.200 going back to the 1980s, 1970s, when we started to have a rash of bank failures and what to do and

00:22:50.320 what not to do. So they've ignored the lessons of the past and what you do in a situation like this,

00:22:56.120 making it more costly and, uh, uh, creating a unnecessary panic. This could have been done

00:23:02.160 quietly. That's very interesting because the headlines today, I think it was in Politico or

00:23:06.200 about how president Biden saved the banking industry. And you're saying, hold on because

00:23:11.720 these government administrators and agencies like the FDIC blew it. There were real opportunities to

00:23:17.240 sell this bank, to save some of the assets, to sit, to stop this price tag from going, uh, the way it

00:23:22.760 has. And they, they were asleep at the switch and incompetent. Uh, I think, uh, it's, uh, also

00:23:29.060 ideology played a role. A lot of people in this administration, uh, think, uh, big is bad. And so,

00:23:35.920 uh, they took us, uh, uh, real hard. They, they really did not want a big bank coming in and buying,

00:23:42.720 uh, another big bank. Uh, and, uh, they also, I think like the ideas of getting their claws on a

00:23:48.540 bank, which they have right now. I remember, uh, back in, uh, uh, after 2008, when Barack Obama

00:23:54.900 became president and the government forced banks to take out a bailout, uh, a lot of them were happy

00:24:01.240 for it, but some banks did not want the bailout, but were forced to do it. And, uh, Obama was a very

00:24:07.560 reluctant to have the banks repay, uh, that money because he liked the idea of government to having a,

00:24:12.720 a piece of them and controlling them for political purposes. Eventually they had to, uh, unwind TARP

00:24:18.680 as they called it. But, uh, we have that same socialist mentality here. Again, the FDIC, uh, when

00:24:25.460 they, as soon as they learned this bank was in trouble, would have been very easy given the assets

00:24:29.720 this bank had to, uh, liquidate or find a seller for those assets and avoid the kind of panic we have.

00:24:36.920 So the government played a big role in the panic and, uh, we're seeing it play out now, but remember

00:24:42.340 the banking system is all is good shape, but there are a lot of companies out there and entities

00:24:47.040 that got, uh, are going to get caught up because the fact they had a generation of no interest rates,

00:24:53.480 zero interest rates. Yeah. Right. Which is a government imposed decision and so on. Yeah.

00:24:58.760 I mean, don't believe the political headline in other words. Um, okay. Last but not least,

00:25:03.380 you were in the news personally this week because our friends, Carol Markowitz and Bethany Mandel

00:25:09.200 have a new book out called, uh, Stolen Youth, not to be confused with the documentary that's

00:25:16.420 online right now about Sarah Lawrence university, two separate things. Stolen Youth, the subtitle is

00:25:20.800 how radicals are erasing and indoctrinating a generation. And you were at the book launch party,

00:25:25.440 which is nice. Glad to hear you went and supported the ladies or our friends as well. And what happened

00:25:30.900 to you? Uh, what happened was, uh, I was talking to a Bethany about the subject and suddenly there was

00:25:38.400 this racket as a protester came in, a woman screaming about, uh, black lives matter. Lord 1.00

00:25:45.060 knows what else. Another protester came in, knocked the books over. We were near the book display. Uh,

00:25:50.980 they threw a drink our way. Fortunately, uh, the glass didn't hit anybody. Uh, Bethany got wet. I got

00:25:57.360 wet and, uh, she had to change her dress because, uh, she got soaked and, uh, fortunately I was wearing a

00:26:03.180 dark suit. So, uh, uh, no, no visible harm there. But, uh, the fact that these, uh, protesters came

00:26:09.860 in and screamed absolutely incoherently, uh, underscored the whole theme of the book that we're

00:26:16.120 in an era where a lot of people, a lot of these, uh, people, uh, exhibit, uh, intolerance and

00:26:22.800 ignorance and a proneness to, uh, uh, even to violence. Fortunately, no one was injured, uh, but

00:26:29.080 they came in to disrupt this reception for a new book. And fortunately, no one was really hurt.

00:26:34.860 So it's unbelievable. You're 75 years old. This is, you're just trying to support somebody in the

00:26:39.480 sale of their book. Like this is not what you should be subjected to or what anybody should

00:26:43.060 have to deal with. I think it was Bethany who spoke out and said, um, they, these people are

00:26:48.680 exactly what our readers don't want our kids turning into their kids turning into. Um, and that woke

00:26:55.460 is poisoning young brains. It's why they wrote the book. It's why I think ultimately woke ism

00:27:00.640 will fail. You've spoken out against it as well. Do you agree? Do you think it's on the

00:27:05.480 way down Steve, or do you think it's as strong as it's been over the past few years?

00:27:10.760 No, I think what you've seen is it's still strong, but the counter forces are a gathering force.

00:27:15.820 You might say you see it in the school choice movement where several States now put an educational

00:27:21.080 savings accounts where the parents will control the money, not the school bureaucracies. You see

00:27:26.720 a lot of parents coming together and starting to affect their own schools and their living rooms

00:27:30.800 or renting a classroom. A woman I met at that reception is doing that with a group of mothers 1.00

00:27:36.340 rented a classroom to do instruction for their kids. They couldn't stand the wokeness in the schools. 0.97

00:27:41.000 And you have a one presidential candidate, certainly a governor to Santa's of Florida. He'll be

00:27:46.200 announcing, I think in the next couple of months, uh, making this, uh, making this an issue. The

00:27:51.320 American people do not want their kids indoctrinated and, uh, made fearful and hateful. And so, uh, yes,

00:27:57.980 the Wokies will fight hard and, uh, but they were now going to be in a rear guard action instead of 0.55

00:28:03.120 on offense. Uh, the forces of a good are marshaling. And, uh, I think ultimately, uh, common sense will

00:28:10.220 prevail. Hmm. From your lips to God's ears. We actually have an update for folks on that involving

00:28:15.980 Robin D'Angelo, who seems kind of depressed and we'll explain why Steve, I'm glad you're okay.

00:28:22.140 And, uh, thanks so much for being here and for supporting. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you.

00:28:26.560 All the best. We're going to be back next with Marcellus Wiley on everything, including the

00:28:31.320 breaking news, uh, with Michael Irvin. Have you heard what's happening with him? This woman claims

00:28:36.340 that he kind of attacked her at, um, a Renaissance and he denied it and said, this is like an old fashioned

00:28:43.360 lynching. And now he's putting out the videotape. It's breaking right now. We'll be back with that.

00:28:52.380 Is Tom Brady preparing to unretire again? The rumor mill is in full swing on that. Plus we're

00:28:59.460 watching breaking news right now where former NFL player, Michael Irvin is holding a news conference

00:29:06.100 on his $100 million lawsuit. It stems from a brief run-in he had with a hotel employee shortly before

00:29:13.040 the Superbowl. Irvin has denied wrongdoing and we expect him to release the surveillance video of

00:29:18.400 the encounter at any moment. We've been waiting for this. He's been waiting for it and finally got his

00:29:22.980 hands on it. He's not happy with the hotel chain or his accuser. Joining me now to get into all of it

00:29:28.340 is Marcellus Wiley. He's host of the more to it podcast and former NFL star. Of course, Marcellus,

00:29:35.860 welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going, Megan? All's great. Oh, it's going great with me too.

00:29:41.400 Thanks so much for being here. So this is kind of crazy. What's happening with Marcellus Wiley,

00:29:46.320 Marcellus Wiley, what's happening with Michael Irvin. Hey, I'm about to say, what did I do?

00:29:49.600 You did nothing. You're good. And Michael Irvin may be good too. I don't know. So the way this got

00:29:57.260 started was right before the Superbowl. He was doing commentary on the air. He was at, I think

00:30:02.080 it was a Renaissance, which is a subsidiary of Marriott and some hotel employee claimed he had

00:30:08.140 grabbed her arm and said some inappropriate things to her while very drunk. And, uh, you know, some

00:30:13.600 kind of R rated stuff. And that was kind of it. Um, but it's turned into this massive deal where the

00:30:20.200 hotel reported him to the NFL. He was saying, this is a bunch of BS. I was drunk. I don't really

00:30:27.180 remember the whole encounter exactly, but I definitely did not sexually assault anybody.

00:30:31.520 And, um, then they said, give us the video. There's video to give us the video. He filed

00:30:37.440 a lawsuit. The court said to Marriott, give him the damn video. And Marriott didn't. And, 1.00

00:30:43.400 and Marcus's lawyers were saying, this is you blatantly violated the court order. Like give

00:30:47.860 the man the video of if you're so sure he assaulted a woman, let's see it. And so finally they were

00:30:54.280 forced to do it. He's now gotten his hands on it and we're about to see it. He's holding a press

00:30:59.320 conference right now. What the heck do you think is going on? Cause the news today, I think was that

00:31:04.200 he just, yeah, he just dropped the $100 million lawsuit against Marriott. Um, and we don't know

00:31:11.360 exactly why, cause it was a defamation lawsuit. Uh, but he, he may refile it because it was, I don't

00:31:16.920 know, maybe he just doesn't like the way he styled the claim. So I'm not sure what's going on,

00:31:20.140 but what do you make of it? Cause you know him. Um, well I'm no lawyer, but I play one on my

00:31:26.020 podcast. So let me play it right now. Um, uh, your timeline is pretty accurate. Uh, they dismissed

00:31:33.020 the lawsuit, but moved it to Arizona. Um, so he's still going to sue Marriott. Um, I don't know what

00:31:40.700 we're going to see on this video. There have been videos shown on the internet before. Now you got to

00:31:47.100 take this beat by beat to kind of really get a great understanding. This is not a character

00:31:50.920 conversation about Michael Irvin. Uh, why? Because there was a complaint made about him about an

00:31:57.600 instance. So we have to really focus in and be in a vacuum of this moment. What is this lady 0.88

00:32:04.140 complaining about? Well, the video doesn't support what she is claiming because the only video I've

00:32:10.420 seen is a really brief encounter in a public place. That only thing you can take from the body

00:32:16.860 language is that it was nice. It was pleasant and it was quick. Now, if there was something orally

00:32:24.480 verbally said in that moment, well, we're going to need to videotape with audio because other than

00:32:30.100 that, what I've seen, there's nothing that's going to make that complaint actually stand in a court of

00:32:35.740 law. But we all know our judicial system is supposed to start with innocent till proven guilty,

00:32:42.220 but we know in the court of public opinion, it's just the damn opposite. As soon as there's an 0.52

00:32:47.680 accusation, you're guilty until you're proven innocent. So the burden is really on the young

00:32:53.040 lady to actually have her complaint, have merit right now. I don't know where that can go. 1.00

00:32:59.280 Your imagination could take you a lot of places. Did Michael Irvin walk past this lady and say

00:33:03.780 something inappropriate? Maybe, maybe not. Does she have proof of that? Because if she doesn't have

00:33:08.280 proof of that, he did not say that in a court of law. So right now I'm just looking for the proof.

00:33:13.040 Maybe this video is different than what I've seen, but so far by numerous witnesses and the videos I

00:33:19.020 have seen, it's going to be a very difficult case for her to win the complaint. 0.99

00:33:23.940 This is what, they just released an information packet moments ago, Irvin's team, his lawyers,

00:33:30.060 to people like us, members of the media to say, here's what to watch for when you see the tape.

00:33:35.220 They say, where is she going? The complaining employee appears from the bottom left of the 0.99

00:33:40.360 screen, walks all the way around the lobby to cut back into the bar where she starts the 1.00

00:33:45.060 conversation with Michael. There was no reason for her to go that way. They're saying she sought him

00:33:49.720 out. They say, watch her body language. She is not offended. They say, as she leaves the bar with

00:33:54.900 the other employee, she's not shaken, but the man seems very upset. The male employee in the bar

00:34:02.380 claps as the complaining employee starts talking with Michael lingers in the bar,

00:34:08.060 leering at the complaining employee throughout most of her conversation with Michael. He talks

00:34:12.660 to a man in a gray shirt who seems to be security personnel. He waits for the conversation to end.

00:34:17.020 He intercepts the complaining employee, points at her sharply and appears to chastise her as they

00:34:22.400 walk off screen. What is his relationship to this employee, the employees at the hotel? He seems to be a

00:34:28.540 manager. The security guard in the gray shirt lingers during the entire interaction. The employee

00:34:33.380 who wants to take a picture with Michael and then watch Michael's body language and the manner of

00:34:39.340 speech with the complaining employee and compare with his interactions with everyone else in the

00:34:44.600 video, they're saying that nothing happened, that this is being unfairly targeted. He's being unfairly

00:34:50.800 targeted here. Yeah. I mean, look, I haven't been in this exact situation and circumstance, but I've

00:34:57.520 been around this. It sounded like what I just heard and I need to see it and I need to read it again. But

00:35:03.680 let me just give you a little conjecture. It sounded like there could be these things at play. Like the

00:35:09.620 young lady came to Michael Irvin and maybe have a relationship with this man that they're talking

00:35:15.000 about. And she came in strong, came in hot, flirting with Michael, whatever it may be. Michael's not

00:35:20.580 stupid. He can read the room knowing that those two together, maybe not for everyone's understanding 0.69

00:35:26.780 that they're together, but Michael could fill it out. So Michael's like, I'm good. And that guy gets

00:35:31.520 mad because his girl stepped out of bounds trying to catch a pass from Michael Irvin. Right. So it sounds

00:35:37.980 like it could be some of that. It sounds like some little love triangle where Michael had no love for

00:35:42.380 neither one of these people, but they were consumed and really intoxicated by his fame and

00:35:48.060 celebrity. I don't know. I need to see the video. But right now, if you ask me to hit the early gavel,

00:35:53.100 it sounds like she stepped out of bounds, didn't like that. The shame of that moment made her

00:35:58.680 file a complaint. And this guy also getting upset, probably urged her to file that complaint because

00:36:05.600 there's no way I did that on my own volition. That's the other thing. That's one of the questions.

00:36:09.940 Who actually filed the complaint? Was it her or was it him? Was it somebody else who allegedly

00:36:16.680 witnessed it? Marriott, their version of it is Michael was visibly intoxicated. He initiated the

00:36:22.580 encounter. So there's a divergence there. Says he flagged down the woman, asked her about her job,

00:36:28.320 said he found her attractive, introduced himself. She explained she was not an NFL fan, didn't know who

00:36:33.460 he was. He said, look me up on the Internet. The claim is that it escalated into aggressive flirtation,

00:36:38.620 unwanted physical contact and a graphic proposition. He shook her hand. He touched her

00:36:44.040 arm, quote, without her consent. I mean, that's ridiculous. That's like an arm. I don't we've 0.97

00:36:48.320 gotten to the point where like an arm is now a sexual assault. Yeah. A handshake is now assault

00:36:54.140 because you touched my palm. I'm like, come on. Where does it become an assault? Like when you go past

00:36:58.280 the hand to like the elbow now, you've crossed into sexual assault territory. How about the bicep

00:37:04.280 or the forearm? Where does that fall on the scale? But unreal. Yeah. He asked whether she knew anything

00:37:10.520 about having, forgive me, quote, a big black man inside of her and she was taken aback. She thought 0.98

00:37:16.620 it was inappropriate. Then he attempted to grab her hand again. Sorry if he brought up bad memories for

00:37:21.340 her. These are in quotation marks in their motion. And then two hotel workers apparently approached and

00:37:26.740 attempted to intervene. However, he he produced two hotel workers that say that's all BS. That's not

00:37:33.640 what happened at all. And I don't know whether the surveillance tape we're going to see has audio.

00:37:38.420 Typically, it would not. Yeah. Look, he say she say of it all. That's the toughest part about any

00:37:45.680 sexual assault, legitimate or not. It's just how do you get into those intimate moments, those intimate

00:37:51.380 conversations and actually get details and actually get recordings, actually get facts. It's very

00:37:58.100 difficult because obviously you're going to have opposing sides, opposing stories, opposing versions.

00:38:04.640 Right now, one of my superpowers I've been able to possess, I think, in my life is I'm extremely

00:38:10.040 patient. So I'm not the one that needs to know everything right now. I usually play to the back.

00:38:15.780 I wait for everything to develop. And then I pick which of the three lanes I'm a travel his story,

00:38:22.780 her story or the truth. And usually it's a combination of those two. It could be ninety nine

00:38:28.060 and one percent, but somehow, some way it always figures itself out. But I hate when I hear the

00:38:34.540 details of the assault in this description when it's just normal activity. Like when it starts off,

00:38:41.180 he was intoxicated. That's not illegal to be intoxicated. It's OK to be intoxicated based

00:38:46.540 when you're going to your room. I think that's the place you should be going to if you're intoxicated.

00:38:50.860 The only thing I know Michael Irvin did that was wrong is that interview right after it when he said,

00:38:56.220 I don't remember what happened. I was intoxicated. Someone should have got to him really early.

00:39:02.680 You know this from just watching any crime show that you're not supposed to say anything,

00:39:07.480 even if you think it is actually supporting your case, because in a court of law, it will be used

00:39:12.400 against him. So now that undermines a lot of the things he will say because he's already been on

00:39:17.620 record saying he was intoxicated and didn't remember. Yeah. If she's saying, well, I remember

00:39:22.200 it clearly. And he's on the other side saying, well, I don't remember it. That's not good for him.

00:39:25.980 Let's talk about like blowing these things up. You know, I, I have been inappropriately approached by

00:39:33.300 more guys than I would care to remember, especially when I was younger. How does it become a federal

00:39:40.720 case? Like whatever, some drunken fool. Let's say her version is true. And he got drunk and said the 1.00

00:39:46.020 inappropriate stuff I just read. Okay. You move on. He, he didn't push it. She moved on. She was fine.

00:39:52.860 They say the hotel reported this to the NFL because the NFL had just requested Marriott to notify it.

00:39:59.720 Should any issues of all arise involving any employees of the NFL booked at the property?

00:40:04.660 Well, why, why is that necessary? Somebody gets drunk and says something stupid and they got to 0.98

00:40:08.800 call their employer. You got to get them in trouble with their boss. This that's called being human. 1.00

00:40:13.760 It's not great. If he did it, he probably could have solved it with a, Hey, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

00:40:17.960 I was a drunken fool. And you were like, no problem. How does this get escalated in national news? 0.96

00:40:22.460 And then now he's in trouble. And that was a federal lawsuit by him against them. Like it's spun out of

00:40:27.580 control. Yeah. Um, yes. And no, let me say the yes and no, because I love to bring perspective to

00:40:35.140 things like this. Um, every day I speed past the speed limit. Like if I see 35, if I'm going 35,

00:40:43.060 I feel like I'm going slow, right? I'm on the freeway 55. I feel like I'm going slow every day.

00:40:48.400 I speed past the speed limit. Now by law, I can actually get pulled over and ticketed, but I don't,

00:40:54.860 but when I do it's all of a sudden out of time and place where I say, well, I did something that

00:41:01.040 wasn't necessarily right, but I do it all the time or it happens all the time. Why are you tripping

00:41:06.980 right now, officer? And I think there is some of that in parallel to this because it is inappropriate.

00:41:13.120 Look, I went to college and if she went to college, trust me, she's hurt worse and walk right past it. 0.83

00:41:18.800 She's done worse probably, or receive worse in terms of treatment and walk right past it. You can't go to

00:41:24.460 college and not hear crazier things than that at the local pub. That said, that wasn't right.

00:41:30.420 What happened at the local pub, but we all just get desensitized because that's the way it goes.

00:41:34.860 I don't know what Michael Irvin said, but if he said these things, then there's a conversation to

00:41:41.060 be had about those were inappropriate. I'm in the, I'm in a school of thought that I would just walk

00:41:47.760 past it. I don't stop for ignorance. I just keep it pushing. If it's really not a complete violation,

00:41:53.180 especially physically to me, mentally, I could block that out. However, that doesn't mean I'm

00:41:58.480 not standing on the right ground. She may be standing on right ground and then it's becoming

00:42:02.620 an ambulance chase. You know how it goes. I got into a car accident. One time I had a Rolls Royce

00:42:07.180 got into a car accident. I swear, I swear. It felt like two feathers touching like, and the person,

00:42:14.940 the person gets out the car and looks and realizes it's a Rolls Royce, literally tried to get back in

00:42:22.760 the car and grab their neck. I was like, Oh my God, that's what we do in here. And I wasn't filming

00:42:27.580 it. So then it became their word versus my word. I think I had to pay a little more than the average

00:42:32.940 Joe, but they tried to get me. They got bumped like this. And then they're like, Hey, Hey, Oh, Oh,

00:42:38.800 you know? And I was just sitting there like, that's what happens. Michael Irvin, whatever that

00:42:43.240 may be in conversation, you got to keep yourself a great distance from people because sometimes

00:42:50.060 this will can occur. That is a very good point. I mean, he's a famous guy. He was a huge NFL player

00:42:56.080 and people do know him. I don't know whether this woman did or not, but you know, it's right before

00:42:59.840 the Superbowl. All these big stars are in town. You could put two and two together.

00:43:03.540 I love the fact that she's at the Superbowl drinking at night and like, Oh, my line is

00:43:12.640 going to be, I don't know anybody in the NFL and I don't like football.

00:43:15.460 Like she was an employee. She was the drinker. But when I was in law school, similar thing

00:43:23.680 happened to me where I had the smallest little car accident. It was nothing. It was a fender

00:43:28.020 bender. If that. And, um, I, I like none of us had any money. The woman who, who I had

00:43:33.500 the accident with it had no money and I had no money. Um, and so she, whatever, we're going to

00:43:38.820 walk away. It was $500, the damage to her car. I did cause it allegedly. And, uh, allegedly I

00:43:44.760 rear-ended her car, but it was a nothing. So I was, it was going to be 500 bucks like to fix her 1.00

00:43:49.780 fender. And then she found out I was in law school. So she thought, Oh, there's going to be money.

00:43:54.740 Like she's going to get like soon. And, um, but, but I didn't have insurance because I was poor.

00:44:00.900 I wasn't yet rich. So there was no pot of money to tap into. And then her lawyer dropped her and

00:44:06.140 the lawsuit magically went away. But same thing when she found out I was in law school and she

00:44:10.360 found a lawyer, she filed a lawsuit against me. And suddenly this fender bender, which was a

00:44:13.780 nothing turned into. And I quote severe and permanent cervical neck strain. And they thought

00:44:21.840 you lost it against me, which they then had to drop when they realized I wasn't insured.

00:44:25.900 Oh, that's so good. Look, not to torture this example, but I got another story that's even

00:44:29.880 better. And it's on the other end of the spectrum. So once again, I guess I was a bad

00:44:34.100 driver when I had this Rolls Royce, I'm getting off the freeway off ramp. And I looked left because

00:44:39.520 I'm turning right to make sure no cars are coming. And I didn't look right. Cause I just

00:44:44.560 assumed no one was there because it's a freeway off ramp, but it was a person walking and I'm be

00:44:49.140 real. It was a, it was a homeless person and I barely bumped him, but I did bump him and he hit

00:44:55.480 the hood. He said, Hey, and I was like, I'm sorry. And immediately I'm like, he's homeless. So

00:45:00.340 I'm not trying to get anything in trouble. I get out the car. I'm like, you okay. He's like,

00:45:04.800 yeah, yeah. He's like, I'm fine, but you got to watch where you're going. And he's like,

00:45:08.900 can you give me some money? And I'm like, this guy's not going to sue me. This guy doesn't even

00:45:13.020 going to get information. And I empty my pockets. I think I had like $500 on me or something. Empty

00:45:18.040 my pockets. We settled that lawsuit right there for $500. But this was just a flip example of someone

00:45:24.860 that that could have been someone else. And then really tried to make him way more than it was.

00:45:29.440 This guy was like, look, you didn't hurt me, but pay attention. And I gave him $500 just for the

00:45:34.700 inconvenience and the little bruise he may have had. So I've been there in many ways.

00:45:39.760 Yeah. You know how it is. In our litigious society, whether they think you're a star or not,

00:45:45.340 I'm sure all of our listeners right now are like, yup, me too. They've had a situation where

00:45:49.580 somebody decided there might be gold at the end of that rainbow, went after them over BS lawsuits.

00:45:54.880 This is the downside of the American litigation system. Wait, do we have time to play the video?

00:45:58.460 We just got it. Oh, wow. My team. There we go. All right. Yeah, let's play it. We got it. It just

00:46:05.160 came in. Michael Irvin's hotel video surveillance. Hard to see. There's no audio. I don't know what

00:46:11.840 the hell I'm seeing. I need circles. I need, I need X marks the spot. We're going to see the girl on 0.63

00:46:17.080 the right. Michael, I, Michael has a jacket. Are they talking now? Seem to be talking. I don't see

00:46:26.680 anything. I, my, my view is not very good. I confess that the audience can't see my mind.

00:46:35.700 They're talking to men are sort of meandering around. I don't see any physical. Celebrity

00:46:42.720 hovering right there. Yeah. Celebrity hovering, right? Somebody's like, Hey, that's Michael Irvin.

00:46:48.360 Nothing. I don't see him grabbing her, but he admits. Space between them. Constant space between

00:46:54.280 them. Does not look like a sexual assault. I can certainly say that. He's gesturing or she's

00:46:59.320 gesturing. There's no sex. There's no contact. It's kind of tough. No, I don't even see the elbow

00:47:06.460 thing here, Marcellus. I see nothing. Oh, she did the lean back. The lean back is always like,

00:47:10.880 Oh, that was funny, but not really. So that means, uh, I'm liking you. Oh, is that a handout?

00:47:18.180 It could be. There's not a grab. I can't, I can't see it very well. I'm not learning anything

00:47:25.240 from this video. Nothing at all. Like I told you, that's a straight B. She put, she put her Mac in.

00:47:31.400 Oh, the elbow. He leaned, he leaned forward there. I could see him being a little drunk from the way

00:47:37.240 he's, uh, standing. I do. Who the hell knows? Total speculation. I have no idea. It looks a

00:47:41.660 little unsteady. Oh my goodness. It keeps going. But at this point, if you're an employee, don't

00:47:47.240 you just say, I got to go. My boss is there. I'm not sure. Like there's so many ways to get out of

00:47:51.600 it. Yeah. She's doing a lot right now. And now the guys are there. Yeah. Now the two other guys are

00:47:58.040 coming over, but no, they're not like coming over to intervene. They're just sort of lingering.

00:48:01.220 And then she walks away. Well, I mean, I'm sorry, but that looked like much to do about

00:48:06.920 nothing to me. Like move on. It's a nothing. My God, if I could list for you, the things

00:48:11.160 that have been said to me, especially during my college years, it would make what he said

00:48:14.320 look like a P like a G rated Disney film. If that's the salt, we're all going to jail.

00:48:21.000 Exactly. I think I've assaulted people too. All right. Mark, Marcella, stand by. He stays

00:48:25.640 with us for the rest of the show. And we will be right back with Tom Brady and also latest

00:48:30.180 in Colin Kaepernick.

00:48:31.220 Just to continue the discussion we were just having, I just wanted to mention one thing.

00:48:38.460 Michael Irvin did suffer pain as a result of this allegation. He was kicked out. He wasn't

00:48:43.040 allowed to do his job for the NFL over the Super Bowl. He sent home. And that's why he

00:48:47.360 was so mad. And this is like sort of, you know, the punishment comes before the crime's

00:48:50.580 even been investigated. So it's BS and we do need answers. And the NFL needs to seriously

00:48:55.000 revisit. It's, you know, make sure your hall monitor, everybody who works for us and run

00:48:59.360 in and tell us, like if something escalates to the point where a civil lawsuit's been

00:49:02.800 filed or a criminal complaint is made. That's one thing. None of that happened here. It was

00:49:06.760 basically just like an unfortunate encounter that got blown up. Okay. That's that. Is

00:49:11.560 something similar happening to Tiger Woods? This is kind of interesting. I saw the headline

00:49:17.500 about him looking for it in my pack. You can't find my page. Um, but Tiger Woods got accused

00:49:22.380 by an ex-girlfriend. He's been with this woman for years of allegedly sexually assaulting

00:49:27.580 him. However, she didn't make it. She didn't, she didn't expand. She just checked a box on

00:49:34.220 a federal lawsuit sort of complaint form that said, is sexual abuse involved in this? And

00:49:38.900 she said, yes, without expanding on it. And she's going after him, even though she's signed

00:49:44.160 an arbitration agreement with Tiger, which I guess he makes all of his girlfriends. It's sad,

00:49:49.100 but you kind of have to, if you're this famous and this rich sign a non-disclosure and an arbitration

00:49:53.840 agreement, um, to, in order to come into Tiger's life. So she did that reportedly. And now she's

00:50:00.160 gone public. She's filed a public litigation in which she's including that claim I mentioned 0.79

00:50:04.220 and trying to come after him. And his team is fighting back saying, number one, you agree to

00:50:08.720 arbitrate. Number two, you sued his trust, not him to try to get around this arbitration agreement,

00:50:13.420 which, you know, is with him because you want the public to see these allegations. You're trying

00:50:18.200 to shame him into, into paying you something. And number three, they're saying, you're a psycho. 1.00

00:50:23.940 You, you, you're the problem. This is just a breakup that you're upset about. You're a jilted 1.00

00:50:31.020 lover who's now trying to drag his name through the mud because, you know, he's got a history

00:50:34.480 that will be used against him. And indeed, that's kind of how it's played out in the press where all

00:50:39.360 the headlines were like, Tiger does it again without any proof to substantiate that.

00:50:45.120 It's a tough play. Um, the parties involved, the toughest thing about this is the details.

00:50:52.100 Obviously that's where the devil lies. And in this situation, when you hear it from 30,000 feet

00:50:57.520 up, you're like, ah, there's two places you go. You're like, here we go, Tiger. You can't get right

00:51:02.840 with the ladies. Again, we've known that all your indiscretions have involved relationships,

00:51:07.960 right? That's what we're into again. Or you also look at Tiger as now a sympathetic figure and you're

00:51:14.160 like, oh man, he may be a victim of his own success, a prisoner of his own success. And this

00:51:19.820 is what comes with the territory. Um, it's interesting. When I read the story initially,

00:51:27.120 Tiger Woods was breaking up with his girlfriend, took her to the airport on a trip that they booked

00:51:33.360 for her by herself, which to me already a strike one. Like when I've never been in a relationship

00:51:38.760 where my partner says, Hey, I'm booking you on a trip solo to go somewhere by yourself. And I'm

00:51:44.940 going to take you to the airport. And then when she gets to the airport, they're like, don't ever

00:51:48.660 come back. And we changed the locks. That's how it initially hit. Now they say the number one reason

00:51:54.180 for false accusation on any thing, on any scope, any level is shame. So when that hits the newswire,

00:52:02.100 imagine you're this young lady, you just got, you broke up with Tiger Woods. That's already kind of

00:52:05.940 devastating. Life's going to be different. Let's just say that. I don't give a damn how much money

00:52:09.440 you got. Life's going to be different than being with Tiger Woods. And then you're like trying to

00:52:14.860 find your comfort zone, trying to get your footing back. And everyone is clowning you, shaming you.

00:52:20.640 Dog, look how Tiger Woods broke up with you. In that place, do you make something up? Or in that 0.97

00:52:26.560 place, do you actually go back to all the things that you forgave him of? That now you're like,

00:52:32.180 you know what? Forgiveness is out the window because you embarrass me. A lot of times that's

00:52:37.500 where we end up. In this situation, look, Tiger Woods needs to just stay single, man, and mingle.

00:52:45.520 Like, I think Tiger needs to be Tiger. No more cage, Tiger. No more, okay, I'm trying to be

00:52:51.300 domesticated, Tiger. Tiger, just be who you are. And if that's the one who loves the ladies, you're

00:52:56.680 not the first to do it. It's okay. Now, I heard one thing about this was interesting, that they had a

00:53:04.060 clause that she thought that they would stay together five years post-breakup because she

00:53:10.520 provided valuable services. Whenever you break up with someone and their response or what they hang

00:53:17.120 their hat on is not love or emotions or they miss you, it's valuable services. It lets you know we

00:53:24.640 already was in a transactional relationship and this thing had no chance of ever working out.

00:53:30.020 I don't know the inner workings of that relationship, but it looks a lot weird and weirder when you hear

00:53:36.200 every single detail that makes you say, Tiger, stay away from the ladies right now, unless you guys have

00:53:42.700 a clear understanding.

00:53:45.000 But doesn't it, like, you were in the NFL for how many years?

00:53:49.580 Ten years. A decade.

00:53:51.360 Ten years. Okay, so go Bills. And I know you're with Chargers and others from Dallas.

00:53:56.280 But Bills, I'm from the state of New York and Syracuse in particular, so yes, go Bills.

00:54:00.460 Yes.

00:54:00.860 I got to imagine when you were playing there, you had to worry a little bit about somebody doing

00:54:08.180 this kind of thing to you, you know? Like, I've talked on the air before about I've heard

00:54:12.380 on, like, some superstar baseball players whose names you would know and make the extreme measures

00:54:16.920 they have to go to to make sure that a young woman coming over to their house at night doesn't turn 0.90

00:54:22.380 around and say, I was raped. Something terrible happened. You know, you're a target. The bigger star you

00:54:28.460 become, especially professional athletes, I got to imagine it's a concern. It's got to be a scary

00:54:34.780 element of being a star.

00:54:37.340 Oh, absolutely. There's an anxiety that comes with every encounter, male and female. Let's just be

00:54:43.080 real. Every dude you meet, you're like, is he a groupie dude? Is he going to just be a yes man?

00:54:48.300 Is this dude really trying to come in here and be the homie? Or is he just trying to get all the 1.00

00:54:52.580 perks that come with being around me, which includes other ladies, you know? You draft off of everybody 1.00

00:54:57.920 that wants me. And then you just sit there and start having fun and poaching off of that. Yeah.

00:55:03.080 That's the man conversation to another man, let alone to a lady when you're always vulnerable,

00:55:08.760 no matter what was said, no matter what was written, as in this Tiger Woods situation,

00:55:14.100 doesn't matter because it can come down to a single moment of he say versus she say. So I had that

00:55:22.220 anxiety. And one of the things that actually protected me was my upbringing, was my background.

00:55:28.880 A lot of women would bring it up and I would echo it because they brought it up. They were like, 1.00

00:55:33.660 oh, so you're from Compton or you're from the hood. And I was like, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Your

00:55:38.080 family was gangster. And they were all in the streets. I said, some of them. And then they were

00:55:41.920 like, wow, that's crazy. Let me hear some stories. I give them a couple. Next thing you know,

00:55:45.860 they're kind of scared to mess with me because they know I'm connected to that life and that

00:55:50.160 lifestyle. And I'm not like overtly, but yeah, I'm a phone call away from making this life different

00:55:55.960 for everybody, including me. So I'm like laughing. And that actually made people scared straight.

00:56:01.600 Like even my boys, some of them are like, dog, don't mess with Wiley. Why? Because Wiley know folks.

00:56:05.980 And then it's almost like in the movies when you know someone knows a soprano, you know, you're like,

00:56:10.700 uh-oh. So I never had to worry, but I had anxiety. Like I'm going to get caught up in some situations

00:56:18.480 and it's her word versus mine. So the way to do it is just like how you play sports. You actually

00:56:23.280 got a game plan. You actually got to call the right place. And there are no guarantees. No matter where

00:56:28.620 you go, no matter who you meet, no matter what you do, you're still vulnerable to a woman's word.

00:56:35.440 And I think a lot of men know that, especially men of celebrity.

00:56:39.640 It's scary. I mean, it's scary just for me as the mother of two boys who, you know, in 10 years

00:56:45.780 are going to be going off to college. And the system in college is so weighted against the boys,

00:56:51.400 the young men who get accused. Like as somebody, listen, I understand there are a lot of actual

00:56:55.520 victims out there and the pendulum used to be against them entirely. But we've overcorrected

00:56:59.820 to now where we're throwing the boys under the bus without much investigation. And you have to be

00:57:03.680 very wary of it. I don't know what to tell them. I know you've got four kids. Like,

00:57:07.060 what do you tell the kids? What do you, what do you tell the boys about how we're not celebrities

00:57:12.300 about how to make sure this doesn't happen? Well, it's nothing you can say that's going to cover

00:57:18.280 all ground, all the basis. It's just impossible because the circumstance is not just based on

00:57:24.860 the objective parts that we can discuss. It's based on who we're talking about. I don't know this young

00:57:30.020 lady. I haven't met this young lady. Matter of fact, you haven't met this young lady yet.

00:57:33.440 My son is seven, so it's a little early for the conversation, but we will have to have it.

00:57:38.400 And in that moment, I've been in every single predicament, it seems, that can exist in celebrity

00:57:45.060 and these kinds of relationships. And it always comes down, just like in football,

00:57:51.360 you have the best play, the best players, everything's in your favor, but it still depends

00:57:56.480 on what you do in that moment of truth. When that ball is hiked, what are they doing and what are you

00:58:02.900 doing? I almost look at it the same way when I talk about relationships. Oh, we had the best night

00:58:07.880 ever. We had drinks. Oh, dinner was lovely. After that, we went back to my place. Oh, it was amazing.

00:58:15.480 We played our favorite songs. We danced in the twilight. Yes. Yes. All that sounds great. It

00:58:20.440 sounds poetic. It sounds fairytale. And then it can go different. It can go complete 180. She could

00:58:28.620 say something happened that did happen or didn't happen. You could do something different than the

00:58:33.620 gentleman and the nice fellow you were for the last few hours. All I say to my kids already in my head

00:58:40.920 is when that time comes, you're going to have to read that moment because you got to put yourself

00:58:46.200 in the best position, but you also got to read that moment. Never get lost in that moment because

00:58:50.960 you can lose it all. Well, I love what you said before about, you know, part of his like upbringing

00:58:55.500 and just also parenting. Like, you know, if you're raising smart, well-informed kids who are reasonable

00:59:02.280 and exposed to a lot, hopefully they develop that good sixth sense. They understand when they're in

00:59:08.180 danger, you know, and danger can take many forms. They have the good judgment to pick

00:59:12.320 mates or potential mates, even if it's for a night, but ideally, you know, ideally there won't be too

00:59:17.480 many of those. Ideally, it's more of like a love situation where you really trust this person.

00:59:21.960 You're like, that's all, that's all baked into the cake when it comes to good decision-making.

00:59:27.460 It is, it is. And even that's not foolproof. You could be with somebody for months. You could be

00:59:32.460 with somebody, I've been with people for years. And as soon as you break up, oh, another version of that

00:59:37.380 person comes out, especially if you're the one doing the breaking up, right? Like we've all been

00:59:41.240 go to divorce court. Like, just listen to those people in there. You're like, are these enemies

00:59:47.200 rivals? No, these are people who just got divorced. We're married for 20 years. We're together, have

00:59:52.820 four kids. And you're like, that's coming out of their mouths. Yes, that is exactly what I'm talking

00:59:59.020 about. So I'm just a person that I don't have that unconditional trust for these situations. I just

01:00:06.000 don't, I don't lose myself in the moments. And still you find yourself victim to like, oh,

01:00:11.540 Marcellus was mean last night. Mean what? Oh, you hear what he said? And even those are kind of

01:00:18.280 little indicators of what can be. I tell people all the time, one of the Wiley-isms I love 0.98

01:00:23.420 is that the universe whispers before it yells. And the universe will just give you hints. If you want

01:00:31.020 to know about something or somebody, listen to them. They'll tell them themselves. But the problem

01:00:36.440 is when you're in love, infatuated, you're rooting for something to happen or somebody to be something

01:00:42.440 you think they are. You skip past those steps. You run those stop signs. You're emotionally clouded

01:00:49.100 from even hearing what they're saying. And then to your point, you got to trust your intuition.

01:00:56.520 And I know we're not schooled to do that, but I remember reading this study that said that your

01:01:02.300 intuition compared to your cognitive thought is 6 million times faster in response. What does that

01:01:10.640 mean in layman's terms? When you're walking down the street and you just feel something, trust,

01:01:16.140 you felt something. Not, oh, don't think it away or I'll think it and be like, oh, that's nothing,

01:01:21.880 nothing. You felt something. And so the energy of this world is always transferring and transmitting.

01:01:28.080 And I'm a person that really reads into those wavelengths. You're not going to catch me

01:01:32.440 slipping. And if you do, okay, I got to get up from that fall down and then respond.

01:01:38.580 Yeah. Love and sexual attraction can be such a confusing film over your intuition, right?

01:01:47.020 Intuition, right? So it's like a man maybe with a woman who could potentially hurt him or make a

01:01:51.480 false allegation. You might not know it, might look past some of the sort of, what's it? Stage four.

01:01:58.120 What's the thing from wedding?

01:02:00.380 What are you? Wedding crash?

01:02:02.640 Stage four glommer or stalker. What is it? Clinger. Stage four clinger.

01:02:06.000 Clinger. 0.90

01:02:07.080 Could be like you overlook that. Or on the women's side, I've seen this with women of abuse who they fall 0.97

01:02:14.000 in love. The guy's amazing. And the guy doesn't punch you in the face on the first abuse. He

01:02:19.680 starts alienating you from your friends. He starts controlling your bank account. He starts tracking

01:02:23.820 your phone. He starts objecting to you making independent decisions about your life. Like the

01:02:28.620 siphoning off of you from all the people who actually care about you and looking out for you

01:02:33.000 starts slowly and builds up. And these women overlook it. Oh, we're in love. Oh, it's fine. Oh, 0.93

01:02:38.260 he just wants to be with me. Oh, he's just a little jealous. And then boom,

01:02:41.700 that's when you get it and your support system's gone because you haven't listened to that sixth

01:02:47.240 sense. The film of sexual attraction or love has confused that strong sixth sense.

01:02:53.380 Yes, exactly. Like you don't put the frog in the boiling water. It'll just hop back out, right?

01:02:58.420 You put it in room temperature water and slowly heat it up. And that's the example that they use

01:03:03.620 a lot of times for these situations. I've been there and I've been there. I just,

01:03:08.580 I've been on dates when I literally was looking and not hearing anything. I was like, she is so

01:03:14.740 fine. So beautiful. And then meanwhile, she was telling me, look, I like the party. I don't believe

01:03:21.000 in monogamy. I don't like to cook. I don't like kids. Like I'm just hearing all the stuff that I

01:03:27.320 like. And I'm just like, whatever. Look at her. And then you wake up from that spell as soon as

01:03:33.620 something overtly happens or you just wear off of that spell. You're like, wait a minute. Who are

01:03:38.840 you for real? Happens a lot with athletes. They get, they retire. And then all of a sudden it's

01:03:43.620 time to meet your wife again. Cause you're not on the road. You're not busy. You're now it's time

01:03:48.920 to meet who you married 10 years ago. And I swear it feels like 50% or more. They get divorced in

01:03:54.420 like six months. Soon as they got to meet each other again. Well, okay. That leads me to Tom Brady.

01:03:58.620 So we're, we're going through all the sports news, Tom Brady. I don't know whether this

01:04:03.720 is true, but there is some discussion in the sports arena of him unretiring and possibly

01:04:11.600 going to play for Miami. Uh, and there's been speculation on this. Some, some, uh, like

01:04:17.620 journalists in sports world and others have spoken out saying it's a good bet. I'll say, uh,

01:04:22.980 let's see Scott Zolak, former NFL quarterback who has spent more than 10 years on the Patriots

01:04:28.860 radio team said he believes not only will Brady return, but the most likely place is Miami.

01:04:34.500 He told NBC sports, Boston, Brady may go to Miami. I think that's in play. The possibility

01:04:39.100 of him coming out of retirement is 100% in play. That's what he says. Um, sportscasters,

01:04:45.360 Rich Eisen and Colin Cowhart both said they also believe this could happen. He's officially

01:04:50.940 a free agent as of tomorrow. So any team could contact him about playing. And, um, Zolak went

01:04:57.740 on to say, I know that Brady's handlers have moved to Miami and that he's supposedly looking

01:05:03.480 at private schools there for his kids. Now the dolphins already have Tua Taglo Viola. He's

01:05:10.900 the guy who got the concussions. I'm sorry if I butchered that last name. Um, but of course

01:05:15.840 there's a question about whether Tua is going to, you know, be there for the longterm given

01:05:18.960 all the injuries. And this would be unbelievable. One thing for the record, uh, they spoke with

01:05:23.380 Gronk, uh, you know, his longtime teammate and Gronk said, uh, he's done playing. Tom

01:05:28.760 is definitely totally done playing. I have no inside information, but I'm basing it off

01:05:32.500 of his retirement announcement. I think all this is nonsense. What do you think?

01:05:37.940 Um, I think that we need to first just applaud Tom Brady for not only at this age 45, having

01:05:46.020 the opportunity to still play and the leverage to command this much attention and interest

01:05:52.520 if he's still going to play, that's amazing. Yes, exactly. Like, and then have a 300 plus

01:05:59.520 million dollar job waiting on you as a Fox broadcaster. Let's just be real about this.

01:06:04.280 Like compare that to our realities, right? I'm a former player. I played a decade and a couple

01:06:10.860 things retire you from the game. One, you just can't play as well as you want to like,

01:06:17.500 that's literally, I think the starting point when you realize your better days are certainly

01:06:22.140 behind you than in front of you, then it's time to start thinking retirement. Another thing

01:06:26.800 that retires you is what's out of your control. The politics at play, we drafted someone who's

01:06:33.060 almost as good as you, but they're 21 and cheap. Well, guess what? The politics at play,

01:06:38.080 you get released and everyone runs that same. They run that same understanding. Like, look,

01:06:43.840 every team is going to look for the younger, cheaper version. You find yourself on the outside.

01:06:48.320 Tom Brady's not in that conversation. Tom Brady still can play well going forward. He can still

01:06:55.280 lead a team going forward, but last year wasn't his best year. And he knows that does he want to go

01:07:00.800 out that way. It's a very emotional decision to make to retire. That's why he's unretired before.

01:07:08.040 That's why I think he's going to unretire again. Why not? It is a child's game you're playing.

01:07:14.780 You play it till you can't play it anymore. The saying in the locker room is you ball till you fall.

01:07:20.700 And Tom Brady hasn't fallen yet. He's still in place to command a starting job wherever he decides to go.

01:07:28.640 So that guy has opportunities. He has leverage. The only thing that's making you give it up maybe is

01:07:34.740 the process. Maybe it's the preparation. But Giselle divorced to Tom Brady moves to Miami. Tom Brady,

01:07:42.880 if he's smart, moves right there because his kids are there. And now they have the co-parenting

01:07:48.800 situation locked up. And then I can play for the local team. Like, what do I have to lose? My legacy

01:07:54.960 is solidified. No one cares about Jordan's wizard years. No one's going to care about Brady's dolphin

01:08:01.380 years if they don't go well. So it's a no-brainer to me if he can make it happen in terms of the

01:08:08.440 contract and in terms of making sure that no one else can take him from that situation. He can land

01:08:13.760 directly with the Miami Dolphins. I think everyone's correct. Where there's smoke, there's fire. He's

01:08:18.840 going to be a dolphin. That's fascinating and riveting. And I do think the divorce makes it

01:08:24.240 more likely, of course, because she didn't want him to keep playing. And, you know, reportedly that

01:08:28.080 factored into their divorce. Now he's a free man. He's about to be a free agent. He can do what he

01:08:33.480 wants. But just help me understand, because I was never a big athlete. I don't I feel like you'd be

01:08:39.500 tired. Maybe you'd want to get your 300 million from Fox just to do the commentary now and not have a

01:08:47.140 bunch of big guys trying to knock you down every weekend. And, you know, the aches and pains get

01:08:50.980 tougher as you're in your mid-40s versus when you're in your mid-20s. Like, what is it about

01:08:55.980 this game that he cannot walk away from? Yeah, we all have our vices. And one thing about athletics,

01:09:04.140 I remember I was in Barbados or something in the cab driver. He was like, oh, you're an American

01:09:08.700 football player. I was like, yeah, yeah. He was like, big guy. Yeah. He was like, he said, you know,

01:09:13.180 what's most amazing about pro athletes? I was like, nah. He's like, you do something for a living

01:09:18.700 that every single person on this planet tried to do at least once. And I was like, what do you mean?

01:09:27.060 He's like, everyone has grabbed the ball. Everyone has kicked the ball. Everyone has closed their eyes

01:09:32.340 and said, OK, I'm going to make the championship shot and open their eyes and swish. Everyone's 0.59

01:09:37.500 trying to be an athlete. He's like, I don't know other professions where every single person

01:09:42.980 try to at least do it. And I was like, that's interesting. He said, and you made it. Now,

01:09:48.140 why do I say that? Not only did Tom Brady make it, he's the damn goat. Like all of those people, 1.00

01:09:55.600 billions and billions of people who have tried to pick up a ball with their pops, their moms,

01:09:59.780 to the ones who make it pro to, oh, you're considered the greatest of all time. Excuse me,

01:10:06.540 if I don't ever want this dream to end. And that's what he's going through right now.

01:10:11.220 Now, you're playing a child's game at 45 years old, getting paid handsomely. Why would you stop

01:10:18.360 that? I wouldn't stop it. And he's a quarterback. So that's the most protected position that gets

01:10:24.980 the most love from not only the team and support, but also from the fans and from the business of

01:10:31.780 the NFL. They get paid the most, they get touched the least, and they get the most love.

01:10:36.400 Um, sorry, y'all don't live like me. And sorry, if I keep going through this roller coaster of

01:10:42.260 retiring and un-retiring, but I'm really not trying to let that scenario go.

01:10:46.480 Wow. You remember when somebody paid, it wasn't like $85,000 for a vial of sand

01:10:50.820 from the beach where he announced the retirement. It was some insane number. If he, if he un-retires,

01:10:56.440 does that person get their money back?

01:10:58.020 I hope they wrote that clause in there, but I hope they didn't use Tiger Woods as lawyer because

01:11:03.680 then that clause wouldn't mean anything in the court of law.

01:11:07.020 What do you think? Here's the last question on Tom Brady. Do you think if, is there any chance?

01:11:12.220 Cause I know you saw, you made some tweet about like, we've all stalked our exes online. Like it

01:11:17.560 just sort of checked them out after it's over. And that's gotta be somewhat painful. Even for Tom Brady,

01:11:24.340 who can probably get any woman who's single and straight in America. Um, because Giselle is on 1.00

01:11:31.940 this crazy modeling tour. She's like, get it on again. Like she was been on the sidelines for too 0.99

01:11:36.700 long and she's done this ad campaign we're showing here for a rezo where she's got the, I mean the 0.98

01:11:42.600 body, this woman has had two children. She's just a freak of nature. I just, I don't understand how 1.00

01:11:47.100 this happens to a woman. Um, but good for her. And she had another thing. She was down at Carnival and 0.97

01:11:52.780 she looked amazing. And she's had a cause she was on the cover of, uh, Vogue Italia. I could go on. 0.98

01:11:57.940 I don't know. Do you think there's still hope for those two?

01:12:02.060 Um, hope for those two without knowing Giselle at all. And I know Tom Brady, but I don't know him

01:12:09.580 like that. Um, I think this is a time for them to breathe and really take in their success. So what

01:12:17.340 happens is if you get married too early and I have two friends that are recently divorced because

01:12:22.960 they got married really early, you don't really get to check your identity box fully. Right. And

01:12:29.520 so you're always curious of how would life be without the, the significant other, without the

01:12:36.120 handcuffs, if you want to call them that. Right. What would it look like if I had complete freedom?

01:12:40.880 Now I always tell them, trust me, it's not going to be as good as you think. It is false advertisement

01:12:45.920 out there in them streets. You go to the local club and bars and hang out. You're going to find

01:12:51.300 out quickly. Things look great, but all things were syrup ain't pancakes. And I'm like, it is not

01:12:56.820 that fresh out there. So they find out the hard way, but you got to find out. I always give this

01:13:02.340 example. You go to six flags, right? You're waiting on the rollercoaster. It's a three hour wait.

01:13:07.100 And you're like, Oh God, but I heard this is the best rollercoaster in the world. Okay. I got to do it.

01:13:11.500 And you're sitting there in line, line, you get close to the front and people are starting to get

01:13:15.800 off saying, Oh, that ride sucked. I would have never waited that long. Oh, that ride sucked. 0.93

01:13:20.500 Would you get out of line? Not a single soul in this world, right? I got to figure that out and 0.96

01:13:26.120 find out for myself. So that's what happens with people. People don't care what you said. Oh,

01:13:31.560 that's what happened to you. Oh, that's how your experience was. Let me go find out. So Giselle's 0.96

01:13:36.300 going to find out. Are these single men out here? Are they really checking for me? Am I checking for 0.71

01:13:41.300 them and vice versa with Tom Brady? I think the experience will be better for Tom than it will

01:13:46.280 be for Giselle. Why? Because Tom Brady is still doing football. He's still in football. He's going

01:13:52.300 to unretire if he wants to. He's still in that zone. He's still going to be a broadcaster in football.

01:13:58.620 Giselle is modeling. That's great, but she modeled forever and she's still going to model forever. 0.56

01:14:03.940 But in the same scope, she's used to that. Tom Brady's not only a football player who's now

01:14:10.700 single. Lord, that was a beautiful place to be. And he could be a broadcaster single. And then he's

01:14:18.360 already known what it felt like married and single. I just think Tom Brady is going to have a greater

01:14:23.960 fun time being single than Giselle. And then you know how the kid dynamic plays with a mother 1.00

01:14:29.800 different than a father. We'll see how it goes down, but I don't think they're looking

01:14:33.860 at each other right now. I think they're looking at who I can be without this other person always

01:14:38.260 around me. I mean, I think their biggest challenge is, as I say, he has, okay, he's the most eligible

01:14:43.380 bachelor now, but, and I'm sure there are many women who are like me, me, me, me. But I feel like

01:14:48.840 there'd be so much pressure to follow Giselle or to follow Tom Brady for that matter, as the new love

01:14:55.180 interest of one of those people. Like part of the problem they have is that they've already been

01:14:59.700 married to the top, top, like the most beautiful, the most successful, you know, they're going to

01:15:03.620 have to go for something alternative, like the smartest or the, I don't know, the biggest risk

01:15:08.780 taker, like a Richard Branson, you know, or I don't just something totally unexpected that,

01:15:14.360 because, you know, you've already been at a plus plus. Yeah, that's interesting. I just saw Tom Brady,

01:15:19.820 what was it a week ago at the bones Jones fight in Vegas. And look, there's a line around the world for

01:15:26.780 both of those people, like Tom and Giselle are fine the way they are. And they could just say,

01:15:32.560 your turn, your turn, your turn, right? No one feels sorry for them. But when it comes to being

01:15:37.660 authentic in this world today, you just got to take whatever that you want in terms of package.

01:15:43.300 And some people let's be real, don't want authentic. They want someone that, Hey, this is a business

01:15:49.200 relationship, you know, marriage outside of inheritance is the number two transition of

01:15:56.680 wealth in our country. Like either you're going to get it from mama or daddy, or you're going to get

01:16:00.640 it from who you marry. That's number two. So maybe they're looking for another rich, successful,

01:16:05.720 wealthy person. That's just nice enough. You never know, or they want the guy or girl next door,

01:16:10.480 but they got options and that's all we want in life options.

01:16:13.760 Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I don't know Tom Brady, but we, we, I've seen him on vacation a few times

01:16:20.080 and literally every single friend I have is like, could you introduce me? Could you do? I'm like,

01:16:23.700 I don't know. No, but yes, there's, there's definitely interest. Um, okay. Let, let, let's,

01:16:29.800 uh, let's shift gears. I'm going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and I got

01:16:32.580 to talk to you about what's happening. Cause I know you got daughters big into sports, what's happening

01:16:36.400 in women's sports. And in particular, we're going to kick it off with a discussion about women's

01:16:41.040 weightlifting as we pick it up with Marcellus Wiley on the backside of a quick, quick break.

01:16:45.220 Don't go away. Marcellus, um, I know you've spoken out about, uh, transgender women, meaning

01:16:52.800 biological men who want to live their lives as women, um, infiltrating or taking over or participating 0.98

01:17:00.460 in actual women's sports. And, um, it's happening more and more. We, we talked last week about this

01:17:07.100 school in Vermont that to its credit actually spoke up against this. And, uh, it's a Vermont

01:17:12.460 Christian school. And what they did was, um, it's called mid Vermont Christian school. They said in

01:17:19.160 the state basketball playoffs, we are not going to play against a team that has a transgender student.

01:17:24.660 We're not sending our biological girls to play against a team that has a biological boy on it.

01:17:29.320 It's not safe and it's not fair. And we don't care that it's the state playoffs. We're not going to do

01:17:34.280 it. And, uh, the Vermont law requires this to be allowed. So now there have been penalties.

01:17:42.480 They are prohibited from participating in any future tournaments. The Vermont principals association

01:17:49.300 has ruled that they can't do the future tournaments and no one from the school, any sport at the school

01:17:56.600 is now banned from all state tournaments, not even just basketball, because they took this position

01:18:02.140 about playing against a biological boy. They were, and they said, we're looking out for our students.

01:18:08.420 Basketball in particular is physical. It's, it's not like even swimming, which is still controversial,

01:18:15.020 but like, you don't just swim in your own lean. Nobody touches you. It's, it's physical. So let's

01:18:20.520 start with that and then I'll get the power lifting.

01:18:22.280 Yeah. Um, my stance is very clear on this. Um, boys play with boys, girls play with girls 0.97

01:18:31.060 and transgenders. If you want to participate, should play with transgenders. Um, just like 1.00

01:18:35.860 we see in competitions where there's a special Olympics category and they're able to compete

01:18:40.980 against themselves as well. Um, and this is not a social conversation. It's not a conversation

01:18:47.040 about identity. This is about biology. This is about bodies. Um, and in sports, we've already

01:18:54.960 been able to differentiate between men and women's sports. And it's weird. Let's get deeper on this

01:19:02.520 first. When there's men and there are women participating, actually there are opportunities 1.00

01:19:10.040 for women to play with the men, but there are no opportunities where the men could play with the 1.00

01:19:15.100 women. If you think about it, like in those competitions. So it's funny, we say male and 0.94

01:19:20.000 female sports. What we really should say is female sports and open. Like if you can compete with the 0.50

01:19:25.780 men, go ahead. But in this situation, what, what came to life was, um, conversations, uh, what would

01:19:33.740 I do with my daughters? And I have three daughters and I said, I wouldn't allow them to compete against

01:19:39.180 a transgender. And it's not out of disrespect to a transgender. Yes. Your best friend could be a

01:19:44.480 transgender. But in a competition where we're actually trying to measure your physical body

01:19:49.900 and your strength and endurance and conditioning, et cetera, there's no way because it's not a level

01:19:55.280 playing field. And I can dive into the weeds of why, but it's not only unfair, but it's not right.

01:20:04.460 I am a man and I know what I possess in terms of strength and I, and capacity. And no matter what I do

01:20:12.620 the transition from being a man, my complete body won't make that transition. You could say the

01:20:19.220 hormones, you could say some parts of the anatomy, but not a complete transition to a woman. I could

01:20:24.740 not give birth. Like the point is to keep it simple because I do respect them as people. I just don't

01:20:32.880 want them to compete against my daughters as an athlete, just like I wouldn't compete against my 0.54

01:20:38.620 daughters as an athlete right now. There was a professional football league and I'm 48 years

01:20:44.480 old and I got one knee and no hips. It feels like some days I literally will make the pro bowl in the

01:20:49.580 women's league. And people were like, Oh, you think, let me tell you what I possess. I possess a capacity

01:20:56.120 that is just greater than a woman in terms of the physical metrics. You can take it to any sport. 1.00

01:21:04.020 The longest drive average in golf. It's like 40 yard difference for men to women. Oh really? Yes. 0.94

01:21:11.940 Even in golf. Now you want to talk about physical sports or combat sports. Oh, it gets greater in

01:21:18.780 extremes. So I just looked at the conversation simply and try to address it. It's weird that we're in a

01:21:25.000 place in our society that stating the obvious is controversial. Like I'm like, I'm not trying to be

01:21:32.560 controversial. I'm just telling you, there's a reason why we have that. My son is seven.

01:21:37.920 We had a four-year-old boy play on our team last year. Every one of those seven-year-old boys

01:21:45.880 was protecting that four-year-old because they knew he couldn't do what they could do.

01:21:50.860 And that's the same thing when you get into this conversation deeper, you know, what you are capable

01:21:56.840 of doing is a different capacity than those you're competing against. So your heart and your VO2

01:22:05.280 capacity, greater as a man than it is, larger as a man than it is for a woman. I can go down the 0.99

01:22:11.800 laundry list. So I really want to keep it simple so I don't demonize transgenders. I am not

01:22:17.640 disrespecting you. I'm just saying male sports, female sports, transgender sports. Let's play ball. 0.90

01:22:24.820 Mm-hmm. Amen. And on the powerlifting, it's so obvious. This is another one where it, no,

01:22:32.120 you're not going to hurt somebody because you're not powerlifting against them exactly. But that's

01:22:38.080 all about strength, right? It's like, that's the area in particular where men have an obvious natural

01:22:44.300 advantage over women. National Review has this great piece up where they spoke with this athlete

01:22:50.160 in Canada. And it's not just Canada. I'll tell you what's happening in Canada, but it's happening

01:22:54.240 in the United States because we just covered a court ruling that went against the biological

01:22:57.580 women. Transgender athlete named Christine Bainton. She says, this is from the National

01:23:04.540 Review piece, she had no idea she'd been beaten by a man at the 2019 British Columbia Powerlifting

01:23:09.580 Association Fall Classic until she heard the winner accept the first place trophy. It was a man's voice.

01:23:14.520 I said, what's going on here? Turned out it was this transgender woman named Anne Andres, who's a man 0.98

01:23:22.700 who is allowed to compete against the women, get this, without any restrictions under the Canadian

01:23:29.280 Powerlifting Union's trans competition policy. This person, Anne, doesn't have to take hormones, 1.00

01:23:36.000 doesn't even have to declare that Anne is trans. Anne can just enter the women's competition 1.00

01:23:43.520 without saying anything about the fact that Anne has lived all of Anne's life as a man, has a penis, 0.99

01:23:48.860 hasn't done a thing about her testosterone, Anne's testosterone, and go for it. Crush everybody. 1.00

01:23:55.460 Good on you. That's the Canadian rule. And Anne has been crushing and has been earning medals and 0.97

01:24:01.560 setting records. And it just happened here in the United States, where in Minnesota, they ruled

01:24:08.020 that USA Powerlifting must allow transgender athletes to compete in the women's division.

01:24:15.940 Too bad if you don't like it. And can I just say, one of the reasons why now they're protesting up in

01:24:22.000 Canada, it takes a lot to make the Canadians protest. You know, it's like, it's not really there.

01:24:26.940 I know. I'm married to a Canadian. I know.

01:24:29.720 Yeah. They're nice. Like, they usually go along to get along.

01:24:32.100 But one of the reasons is that this powerlifter, Anne Andres, is kind of an asshole. 1.00

01:24:38.940 Kind of rubbing it in their faces. Here's a little sample of Anne. 1.00

01:24:44.120 Welcome to Anne Says Something Controversial.

01:24:48.080 Why is women's bench so bad? I mean, not compared to me. We all know that I'm a training freak, 0.77

01:24:56.000 so that doesn't count. And no, we're not talking about Mackenzie Lee. She's got little T-Rex arms and 1.00

01:25:01.820 she's like 400 pounds of chest muscle, apparently. I mean, standard bench in powerlifting competition 1.00

01:25:10.520 for women. I literally don't understand why it's so bad. My son, he weighs 45 pounds. His max bench is

01:25:19.900 like 33. I'm legit seeing some women in competition who are doing something like 50 pounds. And I just don't 1.00

01:25:29.140 understand it.

01:25:31.400 Oh, my God. Just to correct what I said, Christine is not trans. Christine is a biological woman who got beaten 0.96

01:25:36.980 by a trans person named Anne, who we just showed. But she can't understand. Anne can't understand why women are so bad. 1.00

01:25:42.200 Yeah, that is rubbing it in their face. It's unfortunate, too, because we all understand

01:25:50.140 those restrictions, just like a man understands I can't give birth to a child. Like, you know, 0.99

01:25:56.100 you just say, all right, that's what comes with my gender. And it's not to slight women and it's not

01:26:02.320 to slight men. It's just the way it is. You know, two things. Let me start here because the list is

01:26:08.600 forever. But let's start here. Florence Griffith Joyner, Flojo, right? Fastest woman to ever exist, 1.00

01:26:18.580 right? 10, 4, 900 meters. Fastest woman ever. There's 8 billion people on the planet right now 1.00

01:26:26.020 and more than half are women. Now, let's just go through the math of entire nation, society,

01:26:32.640 history of the world. Billions and billions of people. The fastest woman ever is probably 12th 1.00

01:26:43.000 place in the California high school championships right now. There's high schoolers that will beat

01:26:49.020 the fastest woman that ever existed. Now, let's take it to a personal conversation.

01:26:53.620 Do you mean boys?

01:26:54.620 Boys. Your boys. Yes. High school boys. High school boys. 14 year olds will beat the fastest

01:27:00.440 woman that was ever created. Think about that. All right. Let's get it personal. Let's take it home 0.96

01:27:06.220 because there's two things from this. One, I had a conversation with a woman who was on the Mount

01:27:12.780 Rushmore of the WNBA, one of the best basketball players ever. Don't want to say her name because

01:27:18.020 this is a controversial conversation. But I said, damn, you so good. Could you play in the NBA? 0.98

01:27:25.540 And she looked at me like I was the dumbest person alive. And literally is like, hell no, 0.99

01:27:30.540 they're too big, too fast, too strong. Are you kidding me? She's literally top four 0.99

01:27:37.440 WNBA player ever and was like, there's not a chance that she could have played in the NBA.

01:27:44.340 Not a chance, she told me privately. Now, why everyone was like, why are you so emotional and

01:27:51.460 adamant about this, Marcellus? And they thought I had no experience with it. They just thought I was

01:27:57.140 just being a talking head. Google 2017, Connecticut, Glastonbury High School. Now, my daughter went to

01:28:06.100 that school and had to be in competition, her classmates and herself, with a transgender who 0.99

01:28:14.020 went and set 15 records and won like 50, it was two of them, won 55 championships between the two.

01:28:24.060 Something absurd. This really demolished the record books and took all the medals and scholarship

01:28:30.220 opportunities from naturally born women. I don't know why we want to make this conversation more

01:28:37.400 difficult than it is. It's pretty obvious that a man possesses power and strength that is going to

01:28:43.680 be greater than a woman on average, and certainly on the extremes. We need to respect that like we

01:28:49.380 respect other things and keep the gender roles and lines bold and distinguished.

01:28:55.300 Hmm. I totally agree with you. Thank you for saying it out loud. I know it's always risky when,

01:29:00.660 you know, a well-known person takes those positions you've taken them before, but

01:29:04.040 it's insane and we're going to lose this fight unless more people speak out.

01:29:09.060 So this woman you spoke of cannot make it into the male NBA and Colin Kaepernick cannot make it into

01:29:16.060 the NFL since he was bounced out in 2016. He wouldn't stand for the national anthem, the whole bit.

01:29:22.260 Colin Kaepernick is out now. There's a graphic novel about his life and it dovetails on something

01:29:29.520 he put in. It was, I was at the HBO show. It was like a movie online. We had to watch this whole

01:29:34.200 thing. I watched the whole series about his life and he has used this platform in his book in the

01:29:39.700 same way he used his, uh, his, his special about his life, which is to bash his parents who adopted

01:29:45.880 him. Uh, he's mixed race and his parents are white. His adoptive parents are white. So

01:29:52.260 he decided to use this opportunity to bash his parents as racists because they made a remark about

01:29:58.280 his hair. When he was a kid, here is a sample of what he said in Sot 6.

01:30:03.300 I know my parents love me, but there were still very problematic things that

01:30:09.300 I went through. I think it was important to show that, no, this can happen in your own home and how

01:30:15.820 we move forward collectively while addressing the racism that is being perpetuated. He took cues from

01:30:22.340 his icon, basketball star Allen Iverson, who he said wore his blackness like a suit of armor and

01:30:29.200 teenage Kaepernick wanted cornrows to match. He's getting what roles? His mom asked.

01:30:34.080 Oh, your hair is not professional. Oh, you look like a little thug. 0.99

01:30:38.220 Your mom said that to you. Yeah. And those become spaces where it's like, okay, 1.00

01:30:44.160 how do I navigate this situation now? But it also is informed why I have my hair long today.

01:30:49.900 Okay. So what do you make of Colin Kaepernick using his fame, his microphone, his pages,

01:30:57.040 his online special to bash the parents?

01:31:00.040 Yeah. Um, I think let's just give it context. Uh, no country, uh, great, like actually integrates

01:31:11.780 race and culture to the extent that America does on this planet. Like we mix race and culture so often

01:31:19.700 that it's easy to conflate things. Um, and in this situation, I think he's conflating racism

01:31:25.740 with actual association with identity. I give it to you like this. I grew up in LA and we know what

01:31:36.500 symbols are supposed to do. Symbols are supposed to tell the masses what you represent. If you look

01:31:43.240 through the history of civilization, especially in yesteryears, they use symbols because they didn't

01:31:49.340 have the information to transmit or the means to transmit it often. And it's clearly as they

01:31:55.900 desired. So they would put symbols up. Right. And that was a broadcast signal to everyone.

01:32:02.760 Well, Colin Kaepernick doesn't understand what I was able to learn really young in this world

01:32:07.260 is that you can symbolize something to show you associate with it. And it's not based on race.

01:32:13.680 So Ice Cube famously said this in the mid and late eighties when the LA Raiders were here. Right.

01:32:20.840 And Ice Cube NWA wanted to be known as a gangster because that was going to help them sell albums

01:32:26.300 and sell their image. Their persona was gangster. Right. So they said, I wear a Raider hat,

01:32:31.980 t-shirt and khakis. And do you know, everybody who wanted to act gangsta in the neighborhood and

01:32:38.780 across this country was starting to wear Raider hats, t-shirts and khakis. Okay. You take it from

01:32:45.100 there. Will Smith and Fresh Prince. Oh, I want to be preppy. I want to be the guy that looks like a 1.00

01:32:50.100 dancer. High top fade, a little flower shirt, cross colored pants. Point being, we all know that there

01:32:57.620 are things that you can look like and represent something that is identified as that. My parents

01:33:04.720 knew growing up where I grew up that there was a look to a gangster. They knew Raider hat, t-shirt

01:33:10.580 khakis. They also knew sagging. They also knew some of the hairstyles or some of the clothes we wore 1.00

01:33:16.160 pendletons meant you look gangster. My parents are black and my parents reprimanded me many a times

01:33:24.380 for looking like a gangster, just like Colin Kaepernick's parents was trying to say he looked 0.96

01:33:30.320 like a thug. What were thugs trying to wear? Their representation. Corn Rolls was one of them.

01:33:36.680 They also had their uniforms as well. Jail suits. I've seen it all. And it doesn't come from the

01:33:43.440 origins of race. It comes from the origins of association. And people wanted you to keep

01:33:50.060 distance from those associations. You want to look like a nerd? That's not racial. Get a pocket

01:33:56.600 protector, right? Pull your pants up. Play the Urkel role. And all of a sudden you're a nerd.

01:34:02.820 If a white person calls you a nerd and a black person calls you a nerd, it's just they're calling 0.99

01:34:07.120 you a nerd. It's not racism. So I think he just got caught up in the conflation because he had white

01:34:12.980 parents. That shows the issues he's had with his identity because he doesn't know the source. He

01:34:19.000 doesn't know the origins of their spirit because he always looks at their color. But if he were in my

01:34:25.900 house, in my family, and I walked in with Corn Rolls, my family would have said the exact same

01:34:32.280 thing. What are you doing? You're trying to look like a thug. And it's okay. We can let down some of

01:34:41.280 these borders. We can let down some of these walls that are really trying to exclude us from

01:34:46.800 conversations where we can learn, oh, that was a conflation. But instead, we want to be polarizing

01:34:52.980 and we want to talk at each other instead of with each other.

01:34:57.380 No, it's not dissimilar from my mom stopping me when I was young from going out of the house in a 0.99

01:35:02.220 super short skirt saying, you look like a hooker. It's not because she thinks all women are hookers 1.00

01:35:06.820 or she's got anything against hookers in particular, but she doesn't want me to look like one. She 1.00

01:35:11.940 doesn't want me to be one. And that doesn't make her anti-woman. It just makes her a mother who cares

01:35:18.260 about the associations and the path ahead. It's great to hear a voice of reason, Marcellus. There's

01:35:24.580 so much we didn't get to, but we'll pick it up again. I hope you come back. I'd love to get into

01:35:28.860 your backstory in the next time.

01:35:30.740 Absolutely. I love it and appreciate you. And it's great to be on your podcast and keep killing it,

01:35:36.480 superstar. I appreciate you.

01:35:38.620 Thank you. Right back at you. All the best. Marcellus Wiley. What a pleasure. Thank you.

01:35:42.400 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 14, 2023

What the Silicon Valley Bank Collapse Means for the U.S. Economy, Whether Tom Brady Will Un-Retire…Again, with Steve Forbes and Marcellus Wiley ｜ Ep. 511

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