The Megyn Kelly Show - December 26, 2024


What To Expect From Bryan Kohberger's Defense at Trial in 2025 - A ＂True Crime Christmas＂ Special ｜ Ep. 973


Episode Stats

Length

59 minutes

Words per Minute

173.22694

Word Count

10,370

Sentence Count

662

Misogynist Sentences

5

Hate Speech Sentences

2


Summary

A trial date has finally been set for Brian Kohlberger's trial, and it's now just months away! Join Meghan and Howard as they dig into the details of the case, including DNA evidence, cell phone evidence, and much more.


Transcript

00:00:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.
00:00:12.080 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and today's true crime Christmas special.
00:00:18.380 Hope you and your family had a great Christmas and now you can relax and unwind with the latest on the case of the alleged Idaho murderer Brian Kohlberger.
00:00:27.200 I don't know why true crime is a getaway of sorts, but it kind of is.
00:00:32.520 It just takes your mind off of what's going on in your own life, the to-do list that's constantly humming,
00:00:39.380 and lets you focus on something else that's serious, that requires attention, and in this case, a bit of a mystery too.
00:00:47.720 There's a lot to dig into with Howard Bloom. He's the author of the book When the Night Comes Falling,
00:00:53.620 which includes much of his extensive and amazing reporting on this case.
00:00:57.920 The big news is a trial is scheduled and it's now just months away.
00:01:01.680 We'll get into that, plus all the avenues the defense is likely to employ when it comes to genetic genealogy, cell phone pings, and much, much more.
00:01:10.660 For those of us who have been holding our breath for the past several months,
00:01:14.960 we can finally exhale in the wake of this presidential election, right?
00:01:18.980 Work can finally be done on the major issues that this country's facing,
00:01:22.580 and one of the most significant is our national debt.
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00:02:22.120 Joining me now, Howard Bloom.
00:02:24.560 Howard, great to see you again.
00:02:26.500 All right, so we now finally think we have a trial date
00:02:30.480 and that this thing is going to start August 11th, 2025.
00:02:35.140 It's been moved to Boise out of Moscow.
00:02:39.760 And they're estimating it's going to take till, I mean, they got very specific,
00:02:44.300 November 7th, August 11th to November 7th.
00:02:47.020 That's all that can change.
00:02:48.820 But it's been moved and it's finally set.
00:02:53.460 It's taken forever.
00:02:55.180 I know the families, some of them, are annoyed that it has taken this long
00:03:01.380 to finally get a trial date.
00:03:02.980 And I predict this one will probably be pushed too.
00:03:05.020 But now we have a new judge.
00:03:06.820 Judge Judge is gone.
00:03:08.620 And Judge Hipner, I think, is in.
00:03:12.360 Hippler.
00:03:12.960 Hippler.
00:03:14.080 Hippler.
00:03:14.880 It's like very close to the other name that sounds just like that, I've got to say.
00:03:19.240 And so where do things stand?
00:03:22.200 How do you like where the defense is at this point so close now to a potential trial?
00:03:29.060 What the defense has to do at this point is to raise as many questions as possible.
00:03:36.920 I say that even though every time the defense appears in the courtroom,
00:03:41.400 Ann Taylor, the lead defense attorney, makes it a point of putting her arm rather maternally
00:03:47.520 even, around Koberger and saying, I believe 100% in his innocence.
00:03:52.960 And yet what she has to do, the dialectics of her case, is to raise questions.
00:03:59.200 And unfortunately, for anyone who believes that Koberger is guilty, as I do,
00:04:04.380 there are a lot of questions she can raise.
00:04:07.000 The first one is the Brady evidence.
00:04:10.740 Evidence that should have been given to the defense has not been given to them.
00:04:15.320 This involves forensic genetic material.
00:04:20.120 They have not gotten all of it.
00:04:22.500 They had to go to court.
00:04:23.960 The prosecution was holding back.
00:04:26.140 Why the prosecution would hold back on this immediately raises questions.
00:04:30.640 What are they trying to cover up?
00:04:31.900 This is America.
00:04:32.920 Give them everything.
00:04:34.060 Let the jury see everything.
00:04:35.460 Don't give an excuse for the jury to have any doubts.
00:04:38.940 But they've only given back some of it.
00:04:41.160 What specifically they've given still remains under seal.
00:04:44.440 But I think this genetic information that the defense has is going to raise questions about
00:04:52.760 when and how did the authorities know about Koberger.
00:04:58.000 One of the attorneys involved...
00:04:59.540 This is big.
00:05:00.080 Just to set this up, you broke this in airmail, as we mentioned in the intro, where you write.
00:05:08.100 And it has to do with the knife sheath.
00:05:12.100 The one piece of DNA evidence that we know of that was found in this case.
00:05:18.600 And what we know now is that what they say is they found the knife sheath.
00:05:24.040 They had it tested for DNA.
00:05:26.620 They found touch DNA on it, which is legit, but not like the best.
00:05:32.360 And they were able to get a hit in some DNA database that brought up the name Kohlberger.
00:05:41.360 In particular, Kohlberger's dad.
00:05:44.800 And they could say this was the DNA of the killer's father.
00:05:49.520 So they're claiming that was when...
00:05:51.880 That's what, you know, eventually brought us to Kohlberger.
00:05:55.120 That's sort of where we thought it was.
00:05:57.060 And then they tested his DNA and they say...
00:05:59.100 And that made it clear it was Kohlberger.
00:06:00.640 But you're saying, not so fast.
00:06:03.840 There may have been some shenanigans along the chain.
00:06:08.500 And it's not just me saying this.
00:06:11.280 It's what the defense is saying.
00:06:14.040 The defense is saying, well, if you actually did it the way you've explained, got the information that way, share everything with us.
00:06:22.000 Tell us what the FBI did.
00:06:23.740 The FBI, to add to this confusion, is not even giving everything to the prosecution.
00:06:31.260 Or at least that's what the prosecution is saying.
00:06:33.380 They're saying, well, we don't have everything from the FBI.
00:06:36.240 Now, by law, the FBI is supposed to preserve all their genetic investigation.
00:06:41.480 Has it been destroyed?
00:06:42.780 Is it missing?
00:06:43.840 Or, and this is what the defense is looking for, is there something they're trying to hide?
00:06:48.740 What could they be trying to hide?
00:06:51.200 Well, it comes down to this.
00:06:53.300 When you're doing this investigative investigation, where you're trying to build out a family tree, you can only go to certain genetic databases.
00:07:03.860 The other ones are precluded by law from allowing the legal authorities to get into them.
00:07:10.620 Did the FBI go into a database where they shouldn't have?
00:07:14.780 That seems to be a question that they're trying to cover up.
00:07:18.980 And ultimately, it comes down to was Koberger, one of the attorneys involved in the cases, compared it to as if they took him into a lineup.
00:07:28.840 And it was a rigged lineup.
00:07:30.660 They knew he was guilty to begin with.
00:07:32.200 They already had the man they were looking for.
00:07:34.800 This also comes back to something I wrote about early on.
00:07:41.060 I've said that when Koberger and his father left Washington State to go home for Christmas, they did this on December 12th.
00:07:52.240 I said the FBI were following them.
00:07:55.640 You were like the only person who had that report.
00:07:58.700 I had it first, and it was picked up by others, repeated by others.
00:08:01.960 The FBI, to this day, denies that they were following him.
00:08:07.500 Now, why this is so interesting, I've covered lots of stories.
00:08:11.380 The FBI usually doesn't comment, usually says, well, we're not going to comment, wait till trial.
00:08:16.500 This, they've been vehemently denying it.
00:08:19.020 And why are they denying this?
00:08:20.360 Because I think the only way they could have been doing this, the only way they could have been following him, is if they had accessed information that they should not have.
00:08:28.860 All right, let me just stop you there.
00:08:30.880 Let me stop you there, so we can walk the audience through what you're saying step by step.
00:08:34.700 That was just a shot from a police body cam of them getting pulled over, which they did, was it three times?
00:08:41.760 Two to three times, right?
00:08:42.860 Twice.
00:08:43.020 Twice.
00:08:43.560 Twice.
00:08:43.900 Twice, okay.
00:08:44.220 Twice, sorry.
00:08:44.960 Which is amazing in itself.
00:08:46.720 I mean, you couldn't make that up.
00:08:48.000 No, so they got pulled over when they were driving, this is post the murders, Brian Kohlberger's driving with his dad cross country back from Washington State to the Poconos, Pennsylvania, and they got pulled over not once but twice and let go with just, you know, a warning to obey the traffic laws.
00:09:04.780 And you reported that the FBI was following him, was watching him during this trip, that at one point when he left Washington State, they lost him and they had to retrieve him or find him again thanks to like the easy pass data that, you know, can track the cars and they did find him.
00:09:26.560 Yeah, license plate reader.
00:09:27.440 And so your report was very specific.
00:09:30.460 It wasn't just like the FBI knew who he was, so it's logical they were following him.
00:09:34.840 You were reporting, no, no, they were following and they had a real decision to make about whether to intervene when the local cops with whom they did not coordinate genuinely pulled him over for two traffic violations.
00:09:46.000 It was very specific, Howard.
00:09:48.640 Yes.
00:09:49.000 I mean, could you imagine you're the FBI, you're following this guy who's your person of interest in a murder case, and suddenly you see him being pulled over.
00:09:57.440 And you don't know how he's going to respond.
00:10:00.560 If he is indeed guilty, well, he could, you know, and if he is indeed the murderer of four people, something could happen to this police officer, this highway patrolman who's trying to stop the car or the car could take off.
00:10:13.860 You could have an OJ chase across America.
00:10:15.960 But the FBI makes this decision to hang back because one of the reasons they decide to hang back is because what they're doing is secret.
00:10:24.520 They have not even told the Moscow police, who are their partners in this investigation, that they already have this person of interest.
00:10:32.200 They don't reveal to the Moscow police until a week later, until after the Kohlbergers get to Pennsylvania.
00:10:39.280 And why are they doing this?
00:10:40.540 What are they keeping secret?
00:10:41.920 They're keeping secret that because of their zeal to catch a monster, they may be played fast and loose with the rules on DNA acquisition of certain websites.
00:10:53.240 And that's what they're trying to keep.
00:10:53.940 I know, wait, stand by, stand by.
00:10:55.360 So because you say, you accurately point out, and I think the audience has a good enough feel to know this, the FBI, you're right, they never give statements.
00:11:02.660 I mean, when does the FBI ever come out and say, we deny we were there?
00:11:05.480 They say nothing.
00:11:06.280 They let us as media people pound sand, do absolutely, like, just twist.
00:11:10.340 They don't need to confirm or deny anything.
00:11:12.220 It's kind of the way the DOJ operates, same, you know, related organization.
00:11:15.820 So on your story, though, and with all due respect to you and Airmail, you've owned the story, but, like, it's not exactly like it was on the cover of the New York Times and they kind of, you know, felt like they had to.
00:11:28.440 They could have blown you off, but they didn't.
00:11:31.220 They come out and they're like, it's not true.
00:11:33.660 We weren't following him, which in a way is more telling than if they'd said nothing.
00:11:38.120 And so now you go to what is it?
00:11:40.600 Why would they do that?
00:11:41.800 And then we have to go back on the timeline to figure out why they might be feeling squirrely about Howard Bloom's report that they knew Brian Kohlberger was their suspect and they knew it well before they now say they knew it, which was the end of December.
00:11:59.380 Now they want us to believe they didn't have him until the end of December.
00:12:03.000 But you're reporting they had him much earlier than that, thanks to the genetic genealogy and how they made the ID is where the big questions come in.
00:12:14.340 Not not you.
00:12:15.120 I know the defense is saying this.
00:12:16.660 The exact dates.
00:12:17.780 I mean, the FBI has said they identified him on December 19th.
00:12:22.600 He became a person of interest.
00:12:24.240 And that was because of car license plate readings.
00:12:28.020 And then they still hadn't done the DNA yet.
00:12:30.980 I am saying that on approximately December 11th, that's when they first got aware of Kohlberger and everything else followed.
00:12:39.940 It was the DNA that led the case and allowed them to track everything else down.
00:12:45.300 And you see in the public affidavit at the time of the arrest, there's really no mention of the investigative genealogy work that was done.
00:12:55.200 And the prosecution would like to keep this all out of the case.
00:12:58.400 They say it's irrelevant to how we made our case.
00:13:01.340 But the defense, and I think that's a really good case, is saying, show it to us.
00:13:06.420 Why?
00:13:06.680 What are you keeping secret?
00:13:07.820 Why are you hiding this?
00:13:09.180 And it's all going to be about confusing jurors when you don't.
00:13:13.800 No, wait.
00:13:14.580 I want to just keep this linear line going so people can follow because it's complex.
00:13:20.240 This explains so much because when the case was first unfolding, we were all reading the Howard Bloom updates in airmail like it was, you know, your college admissions letter.
00:13:30.980 It was like, you couldn't wait for it to hit.
00:13:32.620 You know, refresh, refresh.
00:13:34.440 And you reported the genetic genealogy.
00:13:39.900 Like, we were hearing, yes, they got him thanks to genetic genealogy and DNA.
00:13:44.620 But NBC News had this explosive dateline right around that time in which Steph Goss, who's a good reporter, reported that, no, they got him.
00:13:58.180 She wasn't disagreeing with anybody specifically, but she was saying we've got how it went down.
00:14:02.200 They got him thanks to identification of the white Hyundai Elantra that some eagle-eyed cop who was at the University of Washington where he was a TA saw that this was the car that they were looking for and just on his downtime started searching files and found that they did have somebody at the University of Washington.
00:14:24.660 And we do believe that this all happened, but the what actually led to the identification of Kohlberger and when is what we're trying to get to here and said, aha, there's there's one.
00:14:35.820 Let me pull up the description.
00:14:37.740 And there's a guy with bushy eyebrows, which had already been released so that this guy's like, this is great.
00:14:44.240 I'm going to send this in.
00:14:45.140 So he sends in the tip or contacts somebody tries to at the FBI to say, I think I might have somebody you should look at, but that they had a big, big stack of white Hyundai Elantra Elantras and it took them a while to get to it.
00:14:59.400 But then they did get to it and boom, that's how they eventually figured out it's Brian Kohlberger, bushy eyebrows, eagle-eyed guy over at University of Washington.
00:15:07.340 And now it seems in retrospect, this is my opinion, that that very well may have been the FBI telling her that or Moscow police, which didn't know about the FBI, saying, no, that's how we found him.
00:15:21.980 And I would agree it was the Moscow police.
00:15:24.960 The report is sent on the white Hyundai that the Washington state police, they sent it to Moscow.
00:15:29.860 And what they do is they stick it in their file, basically, and it sits there for several days until they get around to it.
00:15:37.780 Then the FBI begins following him and then the decision is made to get the confirming evidence they need.
00:15:45.600 This is before just days before the arrest, around December 27th.
00:15:49.860 They steal garbage from the Kohlberger home and that ties it to his father, but but not to Kohlberger directly.
00:15:57.420 The only direct DNA evidence that the prosecution has that was willing to admit on Kohlberger comes from after he's arrested.
00:16:05.860 He's in the jail cell.
00:16:07.640 The first thing they do is take a cheek swab of the DNA and then they compare that to the DNA that was found on the knife sheath.
00:16:15.560 And that that's when they have they're convinced they have their guy.
00:16:18.520 OK, but before that, when they're still because yet the audience remembers there was all sorts of pressure on law enforcement to produce the suspect who did this crime for beautiful, promising Americans were killed on this university campus in the middle of the night.
00:16:38.040 Their throat slit, their throat, their them stabbed to death within moments.
00:16:43.860 I mean, the whole crime took between like 12 and 18 minutes at most.
00:16:48.540 And who was it?
00:16:50.780 Who was it?
00:16:51.740 How why don't they have a suspect?
00:16:53.180 A lot of pressure on law enforcement.
00:16:54.520 And the suggestion by the defense seems to be the FBI understanding and feeling that pressure when it should have been limited.
00:17:05.460 We've had CeCe Moore who invented genetic genealogy.
00:17:08.340 She's she's the one who came up with this amazing technique, which has solved a lot of crimes that she told me directly.
00:17:14.520 You are only allowed when you're pursuing these leads to access this public database of DNA.
00:17:22.440 So if you go and you let's say you go to 23andMe or you go to Ancestry.com or any of these these public companies and you want to get your genealogy and you give them your DNA.
00:17:33.500 They're not allowed to share that with anybody.
00:17:36.540 But if you say share with everybody or if you go upload your DNA on this public database, then that's different.
00:17:45.660 Some people really want it to be everywhere.
00:17:47.120 Some some people are like looking for their birth mother and their adopters.
00:17:50.140 They want it as in as many places as possible.
00:17:53.220 You're using a website, not 23andMe, not Ancestry.com called GED Match.
00:17:58.400 And my understanding is the way you populated this GED Match, because you point out you need as many samples on there as possible, is by encouraging people who are into this, who would like to connect with other relatives to take their 23andMe, their Ancestry.com results and upload them to GED Match and to widen the chances that they'll connect with somebody.
00:18:22.440 Right. So GED Match was started by two friends of mine, Curtis Rogers and John Olson, back in 2010-11.
00:18:30.220 And of course, when it started, there was no one in there.
00:18:33.100 So we had to convince people to download their raw data from one of the other sites, which at the time was just 23andMe and FamilyTreeDNA, and upload to GED Match.
00:18:44.080 And so it was just a small site, kind of a playground for more advanced genetic genealogists.
00:18:49.640 It was where we could try out new tools. We could do cross-company comparisons.
00:18:54.780 So if you tested at 23andMe and I tested at FamilyTreeDNA or later Ancestry, we could both upload there for free and then compare our data looking for those long, identical shared segments.
00:19:07.140 The public database is more limited in some ways than those private databases, which are more protected.
00:19:15.060 And she was saying, you know, it's kind of a frustration that you can't get into those privates, but that's the way it is.
00:19:19.760 You're limited as a genetic genealogist to this public database.
00:19:24.720 The suggestion here seems to be maybe an overzealous FBI crossed those lines, and I don't know with which company, but crossed those lines in a way that they are not allowed to do.
00:19:38.040 Yes, and that's what the defense is trying to get.
00:19:41.660 And what's so interesting to me, and again, I'm a layman, I'm not a lawyer like you, but usually if you have your case, you give everything.
00:19:49.860 Give the prosecution hands over everything. Let it all be out there.
00:19:53.800 Let's not make an issue for the jury. Let them decide.
00:19:56.880 Why are they holding this back? What are they holding back?
00:20:00.620 They want to keep the investigative genealogy part of the case out of the trial even.
00:20:08.960 They say all we're going to use, the prosecution, is after his arrest, the DNA we take from the chief swab.
00:20:15.300 And that leaves the situation where you can have a man who's very guilty, who might very well be a monster,
00:20:21.680 but there's going to be enough doubts in the jury's mind to maybe let him go, especially in a death penalty case.
00:20:31.080 Well, let's talk about that because, you know, it's very interesting to me to think about if the FBI crossed a line,
00:20:36.680 which is where the defense is driving, they're saying,
00:20:38.580 why wouldn't you just turn over exactly what happened in your genetic genealogy search?
00:20:42.200 There's no reason for us to know, for us to not know exactly how you got the name Brian Kohlberger,
00:20:47.080 or more specifically, his dad's name. And they won't. They have been fighting this at every step of the way.
00:20:54.380 It's very weird. If they didn't do anything wrong, why would you just show it? Just turn it over.
00:20:59.580 But they've been, they asked judge, judge. They've been asking, and now they asked the new judge.
00:21:04.140 Like, they've been trying at every turn to try to get this info over the FBI or now the prosecution's objections
00:21:11.000 because the argument will be, we used to have this in law school. If you obtain evidence through an
00:21:17.560 illegal search, you can't use it as the prosecutor. You're, it's, it's barred. You can't violate the
00:21:24.860 constitution and just go into somebody's house and search for the murder weapon without having
00:21:29.560 a search warrant. That's because people have constitutional rights to privacy, et cetera.
00:21:33.880 Your fourth amendment rights. But there's an exception to this rule, which is if you can prove
00:21:42.540 it's called inevitable discovery, that we inevitably would have discovered this person anyway, then you
00:21:48.900 can get past having your case thrown out and the evidence you're trying to get in, you can potentially
00:21:54.980 get it in as well. And this is why, for example, Matt Murphy, who's a 27 year prosecutor in the state of
00:22:03.460 California. We've had him on the show a bunch of times. I asked him about this when you broke the
00:22:07.640 news, Howard, about this is where the defense is going. This is why Matt Murphy does not think
00:22:12.080 this will be an issue for team prosecution. Even if the FBI crossed lines, I'm going to run the
00:22:19.180 soundbite standby. Here it is. So you're saying, even if they detected Brian Kohlberger's dad by doing
00:22:28.380 something untoward by maybe accessing some database, they shouldn't have the feds and so on,
00:22:34.760 that you still like the prosecution's chances because the, they were driving at Brian Kohlberger
00:22:40.800 through more than just the DNA on the knife sheath. And it, he would have been inevitably discovered.
00:22:48.900 Yes. And you, and the remedy generally for DNA problems like this is you just retest the suspect.
00:22:54.220 You know, he can't, he can't change his DNA. His DNA doesn't, doesn't change. There's, there's a whole
00:23:00.180 rash of these things and they've been challenged and they have repeatedly been shut down by the courts
00:23:06.600 of appeal. And so, you know, the Kohlberger defense team, they're doing what they have to do. I have no
00:23:12.360 criticism for them. That's their job is to ensure that their client can spare trial and to present
00:23:17.260 whatever issues they can. But they're pretty dramatic about a lot of things that are doing. And I can tell
00:23:22.520 you right now, I have, um, that's a, that sounds good. It sounds good, especially to a lay audience
00:23:28.100 that, um, his DNA is that the DNA on knife shift on that knife sheath is going to be admitted against
00:23:34.100 Brian Kohlberger in that trial. Um, they're not going to be able to successfully suppress it and it will
00:23:39.720 be affirmed on appeal.
00:23:42.380 So Howard, are you feeling, are you hearing more confidence, uh, that this is a problem from the defense team?
00:23:49.320 I think, you know, first, you know, Matt Murphy knows a lot more about the law than I do or ever
00:23:55.900 will. Uh, he's also very articulate, uh, and he's been a defense, uh, attorney, uh, and a prosecutor,
00:24:04.180 I think prosecutor. And what they're, the defense is going to do is raise a whole lot of doubts.
00:24:11.100 If you look at every individual item is how much dirt they can kick up for that confused the jury,
00:24:17.860 get dirt in their eyes, so to speak. When you put the, you'll have the cell phone data. Uh, the cell phone
00:24:24.860 data puts him in, uh, puts Kohlberger within a 13 mile radius at different times. That's not, uh,
00:24:33.020 being at the same place as a crime. You have the, the surveillance videos of the white car
00:24:38.900 and Kohlberger has a white Hyundai car. But during the course of the, uh, FBI is looking for the car,
00:24:45.280 they made three different years for the car. They weren't sure. And in every photograph, there is not
00:24:50.740 one that shows the man behind the wheel or the license plate. So what they're, what they have to do
00:24:56.980 is raise doubts. I mean, can they raise enough doubts? And that's what will the trial will see.
00:25:04.580 There's also another issue in the trial. There's going to be new witnesses. One of the key things
00:25:11.700 about the pretrial discovery we've been, I've been following is both the prosecution and the defense
00:25:19.140 have raised the issue of a confidential source that needs to be protected. They both agree on this. They
00:25:25.940 said that this has to be covered up. If I can read, this is what the defense said of why they want
00:25:34.580 their documents or discovery under seal. The document contains facts or statements that might
00:25:39.860 endanger, endanger the life or safety of individuals. And then the prosecution came back and, and agreed
00:25:47.620 by saying that the release of discovery evidence could quote, disclose the identity of a confidential
00:25:53.780 source, a confidential source. So there might be some surprises in this trial. So you add to the
00:26:01.700 confusion with the, uh, the DNA evidence, you add confidential sources coming out of woodwork at the
00:26:07.780 last minute. This is going to be an interesting trial. Oh, very well, the, I'm trying to think what role
00:26:15.300 a confidential source could have in this case. How could one be even tangentially connected to this case?
00:26:20.980 And all I could think is that there is a potential defense line of argument that this house was
00:26:27.380 allegedly somehow connected to drugs or drug dealers. And maybe there's a, maybe there's a witness who's
00:26:34.980 going to say that. Yes. I mean, I think that's an area that they're pursuing. I know the defense has spent a
00:26:44.260 lot of time trying to build up the drug case, but I've also heard though in the autopsies, they found
00:26:51.300 no evidence of any drugs in the system of any of the four young kids, uh, that were killed, that were
00:26:57.780 murdered. Uh, but is there a drug angle there is, is one of the surviving people who are in the house,
00:27:06.820 the two young women, is she going to be this confidential source? This remains to be seen.
00:27:12.900 Uh, the father of Kayleigh Goncalves has been searching for this confidential source. And at one
00:27:19.460 point his lawyer, according to what he's told people received a letter from the FBI, from the FBI,
00:27:26.260 telling him not to intervene, to look for this confidential source, or it could disrupt the case.
00:27:31.940 Hmm. But we don't know who it is or what, what business they're in.
00:27:37.140 No. Uh, we don't know. Uh, maybe we could just speculate, but you know,
00:27:42.340 the defense is in the business of, uh, raising doubts. I mean, will it be effective?
00:27:48.100 Well, I think for whatever it's worth, I think the whole line we were discussing about the genetic
00:27:51.380 genealogy, I don't think that will make it in front of a jury. I think that's the kind of thing you
00:27:55.860 make in a written motion to the judge to exclude the DNA as a matter of law from coming in. And I
00:28:03.700 think the judge is going to overrule that he's going to reject that motion for the reasons Matt
00:28:08.420 Murphy said. And then if they say, well, we want to at least argue it to the jury. I'm not sure it's
00:28:13.460 relevant because they did an actual cheek swab of him. I mean, maybe you could argue it's relevant if
00:28:19.060 you want to show this is a bumbling FBI that has a pattern of crossing lines. I don't,
00:28:24.260 I haven't heard anything else that would support that. So I don't think a judge would allow that.
00:28:28.500 But right now I think it's just, it's interesting as a matter of law for a motion,
00:28:33.140 not something you could get in front of a jury. I mean, at this point, the defense has to use every,
00:28:40.260 I would say trick that they can every bit of law that they can. I mean, look at their, their client's
00:28:46.260 alibi. Uh, it's been nearly two years and what they've come up with after they've been pressed
00:28:52.580 numerous times by the court is that he was out at 4 AM looking at the stars in a wilderness park where
00:28:58.900 there are no witnesses. It was, you know, below zero that night at the wilderness park and it was
00:29:04.020 a cloudy sky, but the suspect was out there nevertheless. Do we know anything I said before
00:29:12.020 that we think that the knife sheath is the only DNA, but do we know that? I mean, they did a lot of
00:29:18.740 searching of his apartment, of his car, of the bodies. All, all that's been released to the public
00:29:27.140 is the knife sheath DNA, uh, the button on the knife sheath actually. And that is, they've said
00:29:35.300 compares within reason of doubt to the cheek swab they took after the arrest. The, the prosecution,
00:29:43.060 if they have their way, won't even mention the DNA that originally got them there with that was taken
00:29:48.580 from the family's home that was tied to the father. They want to keep that out of the case completely.
00:29:53.860 And the defense will be moving heaven and earth to try to bring that in.
00:29:57.700 Right. Just to muck it up a little bit for the jury. So it's not so clear cut,
00:30:01.300 not found a knife sheath. The DNA matches this guy right now. Cause we did the cheek swab and it was a
00:30:06.740 perfect match. They'd like to skip whatever happened in the interim. And the, you know,
00:30:11.460 the prosecution is smart enough to realize that the goal of the defense is to try to, as you say it,
00:30:18.820 muck things up. So if they didn't have anything to hide, why wouldn't they just put it into evidence?
00:30:24.260 They said, okay, this is how we got it. This is nothing to be ashamed of, uh, using investigative
00:30:28.900 forensic genealogy to get in there, but they seem to be holding something back and that's raising more
00:30:34.820 questions, uh, and giving, uh, the defense something to work with. Add that to the confidential witnesses.
00:30:43.460 It's right. In which we don't know, but that, but this whole thing that we're discussing about
00:30:47.460 the genetic genealogy took a turn for the better for the defense with this change of venue. How so?
00:30:54.340 Well, because I think this judge is going to be more sympathetic to the defense. He will demand,
00:31:00.820 I think to the prosecution. Yes. Hippler. Uh, I think he's going to be a bit tougher. Uh,
00:31:08.420 it's interesting on the first day when he convened the court in Boise, the first thing
00:31:13.860 he said was, I'd like to say, I'm happy to be here, but I don't want to begin with a lie. He came
00:31:19.940 right out. That's what he's, he told the courtroom. And he's going to be, you know, yes. Uh, he doesn't
00:31:24.900 want to be this. The judge before him, as it seems clear now, couldn't wait to get off the case.
00:31:30.740 As soon as he had the first opportunity to leave the case, because of the change of venue,
00:31:34.820 he could have stayed on the case. He was glad, glad to go to, I mean, this is going to be
00:31:39.780 judge. Judge wanted to, I mean, we had judge judge. We have Ann Taylor, defense lawyer,
00:31:44.020 and now we have judge. Hippler again. It just, it reminds me of my friend. Her last name was
00:31:50.500 Laden. She had a baby boy. She named him Quinn, Quinn Laden. That's no, just don't,
00:31:56.820 you don't want to come anywhere near it. Stay away. Maybe change it to hipner. That's my advice
00:32:04.100 to this judge. Okay. So anyway, so now we're going to go ahead and Boise, uh, supposedly on August 11th,
00:32:10.660 and there just was a motion that, um, and, and I think it's granted that Brian Kohlberger in all the
00:32:18.280 pre-trial appearances and at the trial will be allowed to appear in a suit. They're not going
00:32:24.840 to make him wear his prison clothes. And we recently got another look at him because he had to have
00:32:31.480 another mugshot taken. What did, what did the new mugshot show us? The new mugshot showed us a very
00:32:37.960 stylish, uh, well put together, uh, Brian Kohlberger, who has seems to become almost a new handsome young
00:32:46.520 man in prison. He's, he's, he's got like new facial hair going. Yeah. He has a three day growth.
00:32:52.600 He's looking good. Uh, and you can sort of see his whole demeanor during the different hearings.
00:32:59.240 And there've been so many hearings and they've all been on zoom. I haven't been in the courtroom,
00:33:03.560 but he seems to be staring straight ahead all the time. Even when Ann Taylor comes over and puts this
00:33:09.640 maternal arm around his shoulder, he doesn't budge. He seems completely out of it. Just staring
00:33:16.680 straight, straight ahead. Uh, it's, it's just like Menendez really, you know, we've been covering that
00:33:22.200 case too with Leslie Abramson and Eric Menendez. She would do that with the arm around him. Poor Eric,
00:33:28.440 you know, as this poor kid who was abused trying to telegraph to the jury, you know, this guy deserves
00:33:34.520 your sympathy, not your condemnation. I'm not sure that's going to fly here. He does have a family
00:33:41.800 though. Have they been participating in any of these hearings? They have been zooming into the
00:33:47.480 hearings. They talk with the lawyers in Pennsylvania. Will they come out to the actual trial? I imagine.
00:33:54.560 So I think the families of the victims, two of them so far have gone on, uh, on, on the internet to,
00:34:02.200 to do funding campaigns. The Gonclavis family said they needed to raise $50,000, uh, to go to the trial
00:34:11.000 so that all 10 family members could, could attend. Uh, they raised the $50,000 so quickly that now
00:34:18.520 they've raised their demand to 75,000. They'd like people to contribute so they can raise 75,000. Uh,
00:34:25.240 they want to be there. Uh, they also have been vigorously pushing, uh, for the, you know,
00:34:31.560 the death penalty in this case. Uh, that's going to be the next, I think, big debate in this case,
00:34:37.960 in these pre-trial months, whether or not the death penalty will take place. And the, the, the,
00:34:43.960 the use of the death penalty in Idaho is pretty problematic because of recent events. Last February,
00:34:51.880 uh, Idaho had their first, uh, execution was taking place in nine years. What happened at this execution,
00:34:59.960 they put the guy, his name was Thomas Creech convicted of murder into, into the execution
00:35:06.280 chamber. And they're trying to give him the chemicals, uh, that will end his life
00:35:11.240 for over an hour. They try eight different veins to get, get into, make different ways to get the
00:35:18.600 needle into him and nothing works. And now he's, he, they had to postpone the execution. I can assure you
00:35:27.080 that the defense will be going through all the details of this botched execution and saying that
00:35:32.440 this is cruel and a human punishment. And Idaho just doesn't have the sophistication to make a,
00:35:38.680 an execution. They just can't do it. And to see if that will affect the judge.
00:35:43.960 Can't you be executed by firing squad in Idaho?
00:35:47.800 Well, for this case, last May, they passed a law that went into effect last June that will allow a
00:35:56.280 firing squad. $750,000 was put aside by the state to turn the execution chamber into a place where they
00:36:06.040 could also have a firing squad. That this would be only happen if they couldn't find the chemicals
00:36:11.480 necessary for a chemical, uh, execution. Oddly enough, you know, people can get fentanyl on the
00:36:18.760 streets. The state of Idaho has had trouble at times getting the correct chemicals for an execution.
00:36:24.600 Wow.
00:36:25.160 These $750,000 that you put aside to make this a, a room suitable for a firing squad has never been
00:36:33.000 used. They have not done any sort of, uh, renovations at the state penitentiary to this date.
00:36:38.680 It just occurred to me something, Howard. Is there any chance the confidential informant
00:36:45.400 is his criminology professor who was so respected back in Pennsylvania?
00:36:51.560 Uh, Dr. Ramson. Uh, she, she's an interesting woman. I mean, she writes
00:36:57.800 brilliantly perceptively about serial killers. She's a forensic psychologist. She teaches at
00:37:04.200 DeSalle university that was, you know, he was her star student. Uh, she is in communication with the
00:37:12.120 family. I know that I've been told that by people who know, uh, she got in, in the early days, right
00:37:18.680 after his arrest, she contacted the family. She said, is there any way I can help? And they were so glad
00:37:26.200 to have someone who wanted to be supportive. She said, according to what I've heard, I don't know if he's
00:37:30.920 innocent or guilty, but if I can help you guide you through this complicated process, I'd be glad
00:37:35.960 to. And she has conveyed, uh, through the family information to him. I've been told that. Could
00:37:44.440 she be the confidential witness? That would be really interesting. Uh, I think, uh, you know,
00:37:50.440 I think at this point she's probably working on her own book.
00:37:52.920 Yeah. Well, I just feel like it's probably not her, but the reason I thought of it is of course,
00:37:58.680 she has access to a bunch of people getting advanced degrees and degrees in criminology.
00:38:04.520 And as we've seen there, this isn't the first time this has happened there, there can be a fine line
00:38:10.160 between criminologist and criminal. And, uh, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility to
00:38:15.860 think maybe someone like the feds or law enforcement would go to somebody like that pre Brian Kohlberger and
00:38:22.600 say, let us know if anybody comes across your radar, who you've got concerns about, and it could just
00:38:28.840 be something where now they're protecting her. This total speculation by me is probably more than
00:38:33.240 likely. Well, I'm sure they've reached out to her because the big question in this entire case,
00:38:40.760 why were four people killed at this point? Neither the prosecution or the defense has put out a motive
00:38:48.120 that makes sense in any way. What they have said is for the record that Brian Kohlberger had no
00:38:55.000 interaction ever, ever with any of, of the victims. He did not speak with them. They have no record of
00:39:02.280 it. He did not follow them on social media. So why? I try to address that in my book. I come up with a
00:39:10.200 theory of why he did it, but again, it's just a theory. Uh, I think in the courtroom, they're going to
00:39:16.520 need some answers if they want to get a conviction. I don't, I mean, I guess so. It's just very hard to
00:39:22.340 respond to irrational behavior with a rational explanation. I know juries would want it, but it's
00:39:27.520 like, look at what Jeffrey Dahmer did. Like it makes no sense to any sane human being. This guy, if he did
00:39:35.020 this crime is a sick puppy. And so it's like, how are you ever going to explain this? But yeah, I mean,
00:39:41.700 you've come as close as anybody. I mean, that's why we love reading your work, both your book and your
00:39:46.400 articles for airmail. Thank you. Just spin a theory that really draws you in. It makes a lot of sense.
00:39:52.380 I mean, that just, he was on the outside looking in at these amazingly beautiful women living this
00:39:57.600 life. He would never live. And he was a tortured soul. This we know about the guy, whether he committed
00:40:03.160 the murder or not. He was a tortured soul.
00:40:05.700 Very much so. I think the key point, the theory that I come up with, and again, it's only a theory,
00:40:12.840 is that he wasn't after, he didn't go that night to kill all four people. He just went to,
00:40:20.140 for some reason, he wanted to kill Maddie Mogan. He felt he could not live in a world where she lived,
00:40:26.560 her beauty, her exuberance, that was just a constant rebuke to him and the life he was leading.
00:40:33.360 So he goes into the house. He goes up the stairs to her bedroom. Then he finds Kaylee is there too.
00:40:40.160 And she becomes collateral damage. And then downstairs, there's Ethan and Xana. They too
00:40:46.960 are killed just because they were there. And the woman who survives, Dylan, who sees him,
00:40:53.120 if she had cried out, if she had said anything, he probably didn't even notice her. He was so locked
00:41:00.260 in his own mania. Again, this is my theory, that he just went out through this kitchen door. If she
00:41:06.680 had spoken a word, she too would have been killed. Her silence, her retreating back to her bedroom,
00:41:12.040 saved her life. But the prosecution is going to have to build out a theory that's going to be,
00:41:18.220 you know, not as circumstantial as I can in print or on the air. They're going to have to have
00:41:23.140 something. You know, there's a lot of elements. You know, we keep on saying, well, they can get over
00:41:28.460 this hurdle, the prosecution get over this hurdle, but you raise enough hurdles and it's going to be
00:41:33.520 very hard for a jury, especially in a case where it's man might have to face a firing squad.
00:41:41.240 If he hadn't left behind that knife sheath, this would be a very different case. It would be
00:41:49.140 so hard because we've never found a murder weapon. All they would have would have been the car
00:41:57.260 evidence. And as you point out, if it's really only going to show that white, that his car came within
00:42:02.560 13 miles of the murder home, that's not going to get it done. It's that knife sheath and the reports
00:42:12.260 that he bought this K-bar knife, a K-bar knife online on Amazon, what, two months before.
00:42:19.240 Those are the two best pieces of evidence. Right. And that's maybe very thin gruel to send a man
00:42:27.860 to a firing squad. It's all the pieces come together, make a more coherent whole than each
00:42:35.100 of the individual ones. But it's really it's going to be a real burden on the jury, I think. I think it's
00:42:41.060 going to be a passing trial. Well, I missed the other great piece of evidence against him.
00:42:44.960 And that is the fact that he was stuffing his trash into little baggies to dispose of at the
00:42:51.760 neighbor's house the night the FBI and the local law enforcement came into his house in the Poconos to
00:42:58.200 arrest him. Yes. And his sister began to suspect him. Again, there's the weakness of his alibi.
00:43:06.260 All put together is very incriminating, but he's able to there's no blood ever found,
00:43:13.220 at least as we know it, on his car, in his apartment. There's no incriminating information
00:43:18.100 on his computer that we know about. That's a lot of reasons.
00:43:23.620 Because the prosecution is going to say he ordered the knife, the K-bar knife in the sheath
00:43:27.420 two months earlier on Amazon, whatever the date was. It wasn't that long in advance.
00:43:30.780 He ordered a workman suit, which is also in the news. He got like a full body worker suit
00:43:36.740 and neither the murder weapon nor that suit have ever been found. Not in Brian's apartment,
00:43:42.460 not at the scene, nowhere. But he took a circuitous route from the murder scene back to the University
00:43:49.100 of Idaho. It's this long, you know, tree covered highway easily could have pulled over and disposed
00:43:54.820 of this stuff someplace in the woods where we could never find. And it, by the way, if where is the
00:44:00.380 worker suit? If he didn't do any fair, anything nefarious in it, why did we find it when he searched
00:44:04.000 his apartment? Where's the knife? Why wouldn't, why didn't we find that when we searched his apartment?
00:44:09.400 Um, and that's the reason that there's blood in his car. It's all over him, right? Yeah.
00:44:14.220 There's no blood in his car. There were no scratches on him. Uh, you, you can make a very convincing case
00:44:23.100 and the defense will make it in great detail, uh, to the jury that they have the wrong man. I think,
00:44:30.260 I think they have the right person, but why ultimately I think the defense is going to say,
00:44:37.980 why would my, why would he have done this? Why would he have done this? And I think his DNA was
00:44:44.240 found at the murder scene on the knife sheath, not on a clock radio, not on a shoe on the button
00:44:51.740 of the knife sheath. And then the defense is going to say, touch DNA. Whereas you point out in your
00:44:58.080 airmail articles, the amount of touch DNA they got is the tiniest, tiniest molecule, like a,
00:45:04.640 not even a fleck of dust. And by the way, anyone could have touched that knife sheath
00:45:11.280 in the store from which it can, anybody. I mean, they'll just raise doubts, raise doubts. Uh, and
00:45:19.540 will it be convincing? And again, especially when there has a firing squad, you're going to,
00:45:27.720 there are enough doubts that you don't want to send a man to the firing squad to face a firing squad.
00:45:32.840 Well, and then you've got him. That's why I think it's interesting that he's,
00:45:36.700 I don't know, working on his look. I imagine Ann Taylor is going to have him shave that facial
00:45:41.920 hair growing all over his neck. Um, in addition to his face prior to trial and make him clean shaven
00:45:47.840 again, but he'll be sitting there, presumably clean shaven. I mean, it's hard to say he's an
00:45:53.480 attractive man given what we believe he did, but you know, objectively speaking, he's not a terrible
00:45:58.080 looking man and he'll have his nice suit on. I'm sure he'll be, you know, with the arm around him
00:46:04.940 from Ann Taylor and his family right behind him, which they seem like nice people trying to project.
00:46:11.940 I'm an all American boy. I was getting my PhD. I, I was preparing for a life of fighting crime,
00:46:19.940 not committing crime, not murdering four people within what nine to 12 minutes, whatever it was
00:46:27.380 for no reason. Right. And until this event, until his arrest, he was in many ways, a success story.
00:46:36.420 Here's a guy who overcomes all sorts of things. He's a heroin addict and yet he beats it. Uh,
00:46:42.640 he's 125 pounds overweight. He, he loses the weight. Uh, he turns his body into a fortress. He's going to
00:46:51.600 a, a, a poor junior college. He gets out of the junior college and goes to a, a good college,
00:46:58.920 DeSalle, and then gets into a great program in, in criminology at Washington state university. He does
00:47:05.960 all this. He has one success, one success after another, he's trying to reinvent himself. And yet
00:47:11.620 I would suggest that ultimately there's something in him that he begins to realize that he just can't
00:47:18.100 fit into this world of success, this world of normal people, this world of conversations. I go back to
00:47:24.660 a story I write about in my book where he first gets out to, uh, Moscow, Idaho, and he goes to a pool party
00:47:32.060 and he sees some pretty young women and he gets their phone numbers. And yet he just leaves the party.
00:47:38.480 He never contacts them, but the women receive hangup calls. Uh, he just felt himself as an
00:47:45.560 outsider. Well, and also you're reporting about, because the jury will likely hear this, this will
00:47:52.380 come in. I mean, not all of what we're discussing is going to come into evidence, but the jury will
00:47:57.240 more than likely hear the story about how things were on a downward spiral at the university of
00:48:04.880 Washington for him. His light, he wasn't just this brilliant PhD student TA for the criminology
00:48:11.200 department that was spiraling down the drain at the same time we, he was about to allegedly murder
00:48:18.720 these four people. Yes. But what he's going to say, or the defense will say is just what he told
00:48:25.800 his father on this trip that they take across America. He begins to tell his father about some of
00:48:30.880 the problems he's having at the university and that they're out to get him. But he says,
00:48:34.940 I will come back there. There'll be a hearing and I'll be able to make my case and I'll be reinstated
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00:51:36.040 free offer details apply. I don't think Brian Kohlberger is going to take the stand. And so
00:51:45.700 his side of that story is going to be limited to whatever he wrote in emails in defense of himself
00:51:51.400 to his professors. But I mean, you lay it out how these professors had had enough of Brian Kohlberger
00:51:57.800 and they had actually terminated him from the PhD slash TA program right before the murders.
00:52:06.780 Well, he gets the letter saying that he's been terminated. It's sent to his apartment in
00:52:13.180 Washington State University. At this point, he's already on the road with his father. So he never
00:52:17.400 actually gets the actual physical letter, but he maybe he got an email because he does discuss it
00:52:23.520 with his father on this road trip across America. And he's confident he can beat it.
00:52:30.500 Before the murders, Howard, he was so maybe he didn't get the termination prior to the murders,
00:52:36.340 but he knew at the time of the murders, he his neck was on the chopping block at the university for
00:52:42.780 his bad behavior. He was called into three separate meetings with deans and his advisors. And at one
00:52:50.780 point they tell him, OK, you're doing better. And then a week later, he gets into a fight with his
00:52:56.180 professor. He had to be the smartest person in the room. He had to have the last word. And the
00:53:02.280 professor was a former lawyer who had a criminal lawyer in Washington State. And he just felt there
00:53:10.860 was, I think I haven't talked to him. He wouldn't talk to me. He felt there was something off about
00:53:17.040 the co-worker's character and personality. And this was reinforced by women in the class. They
00:53:23.360 said he treated them in a misogynistic way. And one of them complained that he followed her to
00:53:28.720 his car. And that was the straw that broke the camel's back with the administration of Washington
00:53:33.720 State University. If I were the prosecutor, I'd stand up there. And I mean, I don't know how it works
00:53:40.020 in Idaho, but in New York, the prosecutor gets two bites at the apple. You do the, you do the first
00:53:45.400 closing. Then the defense stands up and does their closing. And then you get a rebuttal at the end
00:53:49.880 where you get the last word because you have the burden of proof. And I would say it's true. Brian
00:53:54.440 Kohlberger did overcome obesity and he did overcome his heroin addiction. You know what he did not
00:54:01.320 overcome? The severe night terrors and torture, self-torture that's been going through his brain since the
00:54:09.580 time he was 16, where he said he feels like a piece of dead meat, where he said, when I hugged my
00:54:15.820 father, I feel nothing. This is a sociopath who is more than capable of these crimes, whose antisocial
00:54:24.020 behaviors got to the point where they could no longer be ignored or not noticed by the students
00:54:29.940 that were in the class for which he was a TA, by those above him who had been rooting for him,
00:54:35.640 with whom he knew he had to curry good favor, but couldn't maintain the ruse any longer.
00:54:41.400 And ultimately this came to a boil inside of him because of the vibrance of these girls,
00:54:47.940 the beauty of these girls, the vitality of this foursome living a life he could never
00:54:53.160 live. Who knows whether he met one of them in the vegan restaurant, who knows whether he met them
00:54:58.000 online or just stalked the Instagram page. We'll find out whether he did for sure in court.
00:55:02.840 Um, but he was working out a lifetime of angst, anguish, and self-torture as he took that
00:55:10.620 K-Bar knife and plunged it into Maddie Mogan and her friends that night.
00:55:16.340 You make a very convincing case. I also, I was just thinking as you were talking about who the
00:55:21.220 confidential witness could be, it could be one of his fellow students in his class. Uh,
00:55:27.440 one of the women who he might've walked to the car and felt uncomfortable around him. Things might've
00:55:34.880 happened in Washington state where there'd been rumors, but nothing is as that I felt comfortable
00:55:40.380 about printing. Maybe these people will testify to that. Was that the one he who's in whose apartment
00:55:47.480 he installed a security system and then she believed he did that just so he could look at her?
00:55:53.140 That that's one theory. Again, that hasn't been substantiated that appeared on a dateline. Uh,
00:56:00.580 the dateline reporters are damn good, but I haven't been able to substantiate that. So maybe they have
00:56:07.320 something I didn't get wouldn't be the first time, but I think one of something like that could come out
00:56:12.660 at the trial and those could be the witnesses who are willing to talk.
00:56:15.660 Hmm. Well, look, I, for one, I'm just glad it's finally, we think coming to trial, it's been too
00:56:23.380 long and I'm sure the families are just absolutely frustrated that, you know, with every passing day
00:56:30.380 witnesses, memories fade, even the jurors memories of the awfulness of this fade, though, that will be
00:56:36.620 brought full front center to them through pictures, but I'm sure they, they want justice. You know,
00:56:43.340 they want an end to this or at least an end to this phase.
00:56:47.180 Yes. I mean, and they also want some of the families make it clear they want vengeance
00:56:51.260 and who can blame them in many ways. You know, your, one father said, I send my daughter off
00:56:57.380 to college and she comes home to me in a box. How can you deny him, uh, his, his venting for vengeance?
00:57:05.200 I certainly can't.
00:57:06.340 No, that's another piece of this process. It's already inconvenient. They got to travel now to
00:57:12.420 Boise allegedly to protect his rights because the defense did some survey of the locals in Moscow,
00:57:17.440 Idaho, who that allegedly suggested they, they all knew about the case and they allegedly had
00:57:23.240 biases already. I mean, all of that could have been cleansed on jury selection and with a jury
00:57:26.920 instruction. I don't think you're going to find people in Boise who's who've never heard of the
00:57:30.420 case either. Even it came up in the courtroom when they're given the statistics, 97% of the people
00:57:37.200 in, in Moscow heard about the case in Boise. What was it? 93%. So 4% difference. What, what,
00:57:45.680 what they'll say is that there'll be a larger jury pool in, in, in Moscow, you have a jury pool of
00:57:51.460 approximately 20,000 people in Boise is about 300,000. So you have more to check to find someone.
00:57:58.040 I wouldn't have moved the trial, but I see how the judge had to do it. You want to do everything
00:58:02.900 that, that will make this trial stand up because you know, it's going to be appealed if he's
00:58:06.520 convicted. So you want, don't want to want to get them as less reasons as possible for having a
00:58:12.200 successful appeal. And that's why you want all the information to be presented to, uh,
00:58:19.340 yeah, a hundred percent. If there's any good news in this for people like you and me, it's that
00:58:24.840 judge judge and kicking it up to Boise said, at least they're going to have a bigger courtroom,
00:58:30.300 which can handle the amount of interest that there will be in this case, which, you know,
00:58:35.120 I mean, honestly, as members of the media, that's, that is good. Um, there will be cameras inside of
00:58:40.200 this courtroom. It'll be controlled. It'll be one at the back of the courtroom, we're told, but
00:58:43.720 in any event, having access to the actual trial on camera is such a gift. It's definitely going to
00:58:51.380 drive interest in this case. And, you know, in August post the presidential election, I think
00:58:56.620 there's going to be a lot of eyeballs on this. Right. And jury selection will start, uh, July
00:59:02.860 30th and they expect it. This is the other thing when he talks about the trial date,
00:59:07.720 he's giving just eight days for jury selection. I don't know if you can select the jury that quickly,
00:59:13.600 but we'll see. Yeah. Well, I like the deadlines. I like the idea of the deadlines. And just to say,
00:59:18.540 I've never heard a judge say it starts on August 11th and it ends on November 7th. Well,
00:59:22.440 I'm not sure that's how it works. Yes. Yes. Yeah. We'll see. Uh, yes. Well, Howard Bloom,
00:59:29.620 what a pleasure as always. Thank you so much for your great. Thank you, Megan. To be continued.
00:59:35.360 I look forward to it. Thanks for joining us today. Coming up next week,
00:59:39.540 we dive into the Alec Murdoch case and Scott Peterson. Have a great weekend.
00:59:44.560 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.