The Megyn Kelly Show - Whoopi's Crazy Holocaust Comments and the Value of Regret, with Emily Jashinsky, Eliana Johnson, and Daniel Pink

00:00:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.880 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We have a great program for you today.

00:00:17.120 Coming up next hour, Whoopi Goldberg is apologizing, sort of, for comments she made about the Holocaust

00:00:24.300 and how it had nothing to do with race, according to her, and Gavin Newsom, maskless yet again,

00:00:32.080 while he imposes an indoor mask mandate on those in his state. But we are going to begin the show

00:00:38.080 by diving into the topic of regret. Our first guest is New York Times bestselling author Daniel Pink,

00:00:44.620 and he has a new book out today called The Power of Regret, How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward.

00:00:51.800 I have so many thoughts and questions about this. Daniel, thank you so much for being here. How are

00:00:56.280 you? I'm good. Thanks for having me, Megyn. All right. So this is fascinating to me. This is one

00:01:00.540 near and dear to my heart. And I learned in reading your book that I might be a psychopath

00:01:06.640 because I know... Okay, explain. Okay, I'm either a psychopath or I have something called

00:01:16.220 orbital frontal... I don't know. You have lesions on your orbital frontal cortex? I have lesions on

00:01:22.100 my... Yeah, on my orbital frontal cortex, right? I might have some sort of a disease. We have breaking

00:01:26.300 medical news here. Because I am in the 1% of never regretters, you know? And I know you spent a lot of

00:01:35.560 the book talking about how that's kind of bullshit. You know, a lot of people, a lot of celebrities say,

00:01:40.100 like, no regrets, no regrets. And I've given so much thought about this as I've read your book and

00:01:45.460 read my team's summary of you. And I've really been reflecting on whether I am kidding myself or

00:01:53.720 what. And what I think is we might just have different definitions of regret, but just different

00:02:00.960 ways. I think I'm kind of at the end of the Daniel Pink book. I'm that person who's like processed it

00:02:06.600 and come out at a good place with it as opposed to I just buried it and said, no regrets, no regrets.

00:02:14.000 That's what it could be. I mean, I mean, it could be that you're on either end of the spectrum. I hope

00:02:18.020 that you don't have lesions on your orbital frontal cortex. And I hope you don't have Parkinson's disease

00:02:23.220 or sociopath or other kinds of things that prevent people from having regret. But it could be that you

00:02:29.360 processed it. It could be that you processed it well. And it could be that you're actually better

00:02:33.900 adjusted than most people. The problem with regret is that it feels terrible. It's painful. And our

00:02:40.060 tendency is just simply to bat away negative feelings. And when we can't fully bat them away,

00:02:44.580 we end up getting captured by them. The healthy approach is to look our regrets in the eye and deal

00:02:51.040 with them. So the philosophy of no regrets is not an act of courage. It's an act of denial. What's

00:02:56.800 courage is looking at your regrets dead in the eye and learning lessons from them. It sounds like that's

00:03:02.020 what you might have done. Well, I you you're going to help me and others figure it out, I guess,

00:03:07.440 because when I to me, there was almost a distinction between timing. So if you if you make a decision and

00:03:14.540 it doesn't work out for you, there's an immediate period of wrestling with did I make the right

00:03:20.460 decision? It led to some bad things. Maybe it was the wrong decision. OK, now what? Right. And then

00:03:27.440 you grow and then hopefully with reflection and, you know, a greater context, you get to the point

00:03:32.880 where you're like, it wasn't all bad. There were some things I could take away from the failure,

00:03:37.340 some things I could take away from the bad consequences. Why did I make that decision?

00:03:40.920 That tells me something about myself. And I think that's sort of how I've processed everything

00:03:46.380 to where I've I could I do wind up saying I'm good. I don't regret doing even the things that

00:03:52.720 weren't, quote, great, you know, or or weren't always perfectly ethical. Right. It's not like

00:03:58.380 I've never misstepped ethically, et cetera. I just have forgiven myself and I've learned to take away

00:04:04.540 from it the lessons that are available. Well, I mean, that's really, Megan, what 50 or 60 years

00:04:10.960 of science tells us about how to effectively deal with regret. And I think that, you know, one of the

00:04:15.400 most important things in dealing with regret is your initial view of yourself. And a lot of times

00:04:21.840 the way that we talk to ourselves is so brutal. We criticize ourselves in ways that so that's

00:04:27.860 crueler than we would ever talk to somebody else. And so we're actually as gooey as it sounds. There's

00:04:32.340 a concept called self-compassion. If we treat ourselves with kindness rather than contempt,

00:04:36.980 that's the first step. The second step is actually disclosing our regrets to people. One of the things

00:04:42.620 about disclosure is that it helps us make sense of it and unburden it and then draw a lesson from it.

00:04:47.980 And so the trouble is, is that most people don't do what you're doing. Most people,

00:04:51.340 either say, I don't have any regrets. I never look backward. I always think positive.

00:04:56.140 And then that ends up hobbling them because regret is, is, is one of our most common emotions.

00:05:02.680 It's our second most common. It's our, it's our most common negative emotion. And it's our,

00:05:07.700 and there's research showing it's the second most common emotion that people express

00:05:11.460 overall, second only to love. So it's this incredible, that was a hopeful piece of information

00:05:17.180 in your book. But, but, but, but the point is, it's like, but, but it, I think it is hopeful in

00:05:22.100 a weird way because it depends on how we deal with regret. If we feel bad, okay. Regret feels bad.

00:05:27.520 It feels crappy, right? It makes our stomach churn. And so we naturally want to avoid it.

00:05:32.260 Um, but if you simply, it's, I tell you, treat regret. Do you treat regret as a stranger walking

00:05:37.780 down the street? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't care. Do you treat regret?

00:05:41.260 That's a bad idea. Do you treat regret as St. Peter at the gate forming a final judgment on your

00:05:48.060 worth as a person? That's a bad idea. Or do you look at regret as a teacher? And when people look

00:05:53.200 at regret as a teacher, there is a pile of evidence showing it is, it's our most useful emotion.

00:05:58.880 It helps us make better decisions. It helps us solve problems faster. We become better

00:06:03.140 negotiators. We become better strategists and we find a better sense of meaning. And so what I'm

00:06:07.480 trying to do here is reclaim regret, get over this no regrets philosophy, which you very appropriately

00:06:14.060 called bullshit. It's a bad idea. And instead let's treat our regrets like grown men and grown women,

00:06:21.520 think about them, extract lessons from them and move forward. Because in this emotion of regret,

00:06:26.360 I'm convinced is the path to a life well lived. Okay. But if I look back on a decision I've made

00:06:32.320 that I think was, in retrospect, was not a great decision, and I wind up saying, no, I would not

00:06:41.080 reverse the decision. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't reverse it because a lot of good came out

00:06:45.800 of it. You know, some bad, but a lot of good. I don't really chalk that up to regret. You know,

00:06:51.940 I don't, and I've been really wrestling with this because you've raised very interesting and provocative

00:06:56.180 ideas in your book, which I loved. It fired up my brain, my possibly legion, legioned brain.

00:07:03.560 And the one that I've always gotten stuck on, and I realize people have all sorts of regrets. The book

00:07:09.720 was very interesting and sort of outlining some of what they are most commonly. We'll get to all that.

00:07:13.480 But for me, there is one thing in my life that I have always, let's say, lamented. We'll start with

00:07:19.820 that word. And it was, not to get too personal with you after seven minutes, but it was the night

00:07:27.100 that my dad died. And I was 15 years old. He was 45. It was 10 days before Christmas, 1985. Did not

00:07:34.940 expect him to die at all. He wasn't having any health problems. And the Christmas tree was up.

00:07:40.540 And I complained to him that my school ring wasn't, it wasn't going to be nice enough. He wasn't

00:07:49.420 allotting a big enough budget for the one I wanted. And I was mad and wanted a nicer one.

00:07:57.700 And we argued over it. We had it back and forth. And he just kind of turned and walked out of the

00:08:03.920 room. He had it with my brattiness. You know, he turned and walked out of the room. And I went upstairs

00:08:09.460 and I went to bed and I saw him. I saw him sitting in front of the Christmas tree alone

00:08:13.820 that night. You know, and within two hours, I would be asleep. And my sister would then be waking

00:08:18.880 me up telling me he had had a heart attack and he never recovered. He was dead. And so that when I

00:08:27.060 think of something like a regret, that's the thing that comes to mind. And then, but if I kept talking

00:08:33.700 about it, Dan, I'd get to the point of, okay, but can I forgive myself? Yes, I can. I was a,

00:08:39.380 I had just turned 15. I was a young girl. I had stupid priorities, which we often do when we're that

00:08:45.560 age. And I grew out of them. My dad would never have wanted me to live with guilt or regret or

00:08:51.880 sadness over that moment forever. The same way I know my kids love me and are good, notwithstanding

00:08:57.620 moments of brattiness. He knew that about me. You know, I can walk myself through all of it.

00:09:02.860 But is it a moment I would have undone? Yes, it is. So like, I can get there on that.

00:09:08.540 Other than that, though, I can't really answer all those questions the same. Most of the things I'd

00:09:13.000 say, no, I'd still do it because it made me a more interesting person. I learned lessons from it.

00:09:17.340 I'm more layered. It's something I would never do again. So I did it in a smaller state. You know

00:09:21.980 what I mean? So I'm really kind of wrestling with our people running around with that level of

00:09:28.300 darkness around a moment that I have with that one, but on a much more massive scale.

00:09:36.320 It depends. And I'll tell you why it depends. I know you I know both of us are trained as lawyers,

00:09:41.600 so we know that the answer to every question is it depends. But it depends. Now, here's the thing.

00:09:46.920 What you were talking about there in that regret, which is very poignant and the way you dealt with

00:09:52.080 it is is in some ways textbook and how one deals with it. So treat yourself with some combined some

00:09:57.540 kindness. Do you think that you're the only 15 year old girl who's ever been bratty to a father?

00:10:01.620 No. Disclosing it is a way of unburdening and making sense of it and then drawing a lesson from

00:10:07.140 it, which I think that you have. But there are two in the architecture of regret. There are two big

00:10:11.460 distinctions. One of regrets of action. That's what you're talking about. And others are regrets of

00:10:16.240 inaction. We regret things we did and we regret things we didn't. Regrets of action are often

00:10:22.560 easier to resolve because we can make amends. We can put it in broader context. We can see the silver

00:10:30.860 lining in it. What I found in my research and what comes out in the academic research as well

00:10:36.160 is that most people's regrets are regrets of inaction. They're regrets of if only I'd taken that

00:10:44.240 chance. If only I'd done if if only I had done if only I had done this thing. And so action regrets

00:10:51.760 are easier to resolve. And one of the things you're doing in with one of the things that we can do with

00:10:56.280 action regrets is that we can find the silver lining in them. And this is this is part of how

00:11:02.000 our this is part of how our brain works. There's a let's talk about the Olympics. There's a famous

00:11:06.020 example from the Olympics where there's research has been replicated multiple times where if you show

00:11:11.700 photographs of athletes on the Olympic medal stand, you would expect the gold medalist looks

00:11:17.380 the happiest, the silver medalist looks the second happiness, and the bronze medalist looks the third

00:11:21.940 happiest. And you would be wrong. The gold medalist looks the happiest. This the bronze medalist looks

00:11:27.660 the second happiest. And the silver medalist is often not looking very happy. Why? It is you want

00:11:33.100 a gold counter. It's a it's a counterfactual that the the silver medalist is saying if only I kicked

00:11:39.240 a little harder, I'd have a gold. The silver the bronze medalist is saying, at least I bet I beat

00:11:45.140 that schmo who finished in fourth place and got him and got a medal. And so one of the ways that we

00:11:49.440 deal with certain kinds of regrets is we can at least them, we can find the silver lining in that we

00:11:54.180 can imagine how things could have turned out could have turned out worse. But for many people,

00:11:58.960 the regrets that plague them are regrets of inaction. If only I had done such and such,

00:12:05.060 and those are harder to resolve. All right. So to stay on the same sort of theme of my life,

00:12:10.480 I, I think I have, maybe this is why I don't have very many real regrets. I have almost I have none,

00:12:18.040 I have none of the inaction ones, none. And there is a reason for that. And it relates to the story I

00:12:23.000 just told you. If there's, if there's one silver lining to losing a parent at a young age, or even

00:12:29.000 anybody who's very close to you. It is that you it's a reminder that stays with you forever. If

00:12:34.320 you're paying attention to lessons, that it's not a dress rehearsal. It's time limited. You don't get

00:12:40.920 do overs. Every day is a blessing. No tomorrow's promised all of the things. And if you can internalize

00:12:47.100 that, it does make you shake it up in your life when you recognize this situation is not working

00:12:54.160 for me. And I look back on my own life. It's like I, I got out of my first marriage because I realized

00:12:59.160 that I left Fox News because I realized that did things work out well for me at my next job? They

00:13:03.920 did not. But I actually had a lot of great experiences at that job and learned a lot of

00:13:08.200 lessons and met a lot of nice people. Some of the skills I developed there I use to this day.

00:13:12.340 I've taken very big risks because I know that there's you're not going to get another chance

00:13:19.180 like better to try and invite change and fail than not to try at all. That's generally been

00:13:25.480 my approach because of losing my dad young. You're right to have not tried at all would

00:13:30.580 be very hard to accept. I mean, in some ways, Megan, you are verifying the core idea of this

00:13:40.900 book, which is that regret makes us human. All of it, all of us experience it. But if we process

00:13:46.420 it correctly, it makes us better. It leads us to make better decisions. It allows us to learn and

00:13:52.460 grow. What concerns me is that a lot of people aren't, don't do that. What instead, what happens

00:14:00.440 is they lead a life of delusion by saying, I have no regrets. I never look backward. Or they become

00:14:05.420 so hobbled by these negative feelings. They don't know what to do about them. And if we, to me, if,

00:14:11.540 if we can model the approach that you have taken, which is built very sturdily on rich bodies of

00:14:18.500 science, we can use this emotion to actually find the way to a better life, which is sounds like what

00:14:26.140 you have, which sounds like what you have done. And that self-compassion is huge too. I would say that

00:14:32.100 I'm a Catholic. You know, I was raised Catholic. I'm not the most religious person you've ever met,

00:14:36.380 but I am a practicing Catholic. And we're all about forgiveness in the Catholic Church. Judgment,

00:14:41.220 yes, absolutely. And then forgiveness, including of oneself. And I practice it toward others. I'm

00:14:46.980 very, very quick to forgive. I mean, humanity is so frail and fraught. And I can turn that same lens on

00:14:54.500 myself. It's one of the things that drives me crazy about society right now, because at the moment,

00:14:59.500 we're so unforgiving of one another, right? It's like, we want everybody's scalp. It's like,

00:15:03.980 oh, it's exciting. Somebody could lose their job, pile on, join the mob. You know, it's one of the

00:15:07.980 things that drives me nuts because we should just be more kind and loving and forgiving and

00:15:12.360 understanding that everybody makes big mistakes. Yeah. And one of the things that comes out again,

00:15:18.720 when you look at the substance of people's regrets is that there are a lot of, I mean, for me personally,

00:15:24.600 it's the same thing. There are a lot of regrets about basic kindness, about doing the right thing

00:15:30.160 and being a kind person. For instance, when I collected all these regrets, I have hundreds of

00:15:34.300 regrets around the world from people who bullied other bullied kids. I have people who 10 years later,

00:15:40.160 20 years later, 30 years later, regret bullying kids in school and, you know, a ferocious act of

00:15:46.880 unkindness. For me, I, one of the things that got me on this topic was thinking about my own regrets.

00:15:53.200 And one of my big regrets was, was kindness, but it was a different kind of regret of kindness in

00:15:58.200 the sense that I wasn't a bully, but here's the thing. I was always like a, you know, like a writer

00:16:03.280 observer on the periphery kind of guy. And I would see people being left out. I would see people being

00:16:08.720 mistreated and I didn't do a damn thing. And that still bugs me today. But if I reflect on that,

00:16:14.980 if I don't, if I, if I say, Oh my God, no regrets, never look backward. That's not a good idea. If I

00:16:20.800 say, Oh my gosh, I'm the worst person in the world. I'm just a horrible human being. That's going to be

00:16:24.460 debilitating. But if I say, wait a second, I feel crappy about that. What is this teaching me? It

00:16:29.320 teaches me to be kinder in the future. And that's something that I've tried to do.

00:16:33.080 And then do you have the other, the next step of forgiving the young you, you know, like that kid who

00:16:38.920 was more comfortable being on the outskirts, like more of a, right. I'm married to this man,

00:16:43.220 right. Who's more not like on the outskirts, but just a writer, more of an introvert in certain

00:16:47.720 circumstances. This is, it's hard for a kid like that to inject himself into every situation.

00:16:54.720 This is at the core of self-compassion. This is at the core of self-compassion,

00:16:59.300 which is built on the work of Kristen Neff at the university of Texas, which, which shows that

00:17:04.620 when we, when we evaluate ourselves on our own, if I look back on my, let's say 18 year old self or

00:17:11.140 17 year old self, I can say, Oh my God, you're such a freaking idiot. What the hell was wrong

00:17:16.340 with you back then? You should have stepped up and, and, and, and flown in like Superman to save

00:17:21.420 the day. All right. If someone else told me that story, I would say, okay, I understand. Like that

00:17:28.060 happens to us all. If I look at myself, am I the only nerdy 17 year old who didn't step up to stop a

00:17:34.000 bully? No, absolutely not. Does that not stepping up to stop a bully when I was 17 fully define who I am?

00:17:40.520 No, absolutely not. The trouble is, is that, and that's what, that's what exactly what self

00:17:45.880 compassion is. And that's the first step in allowing us to make sense of our regrets and

00:17:51.100 use them as forward seeking lessons. The problem Megan is that people don't do that. They are

00:17:56.500 hobbled by negative emotions. And the, one of the reasons for that is they think that they're the

00:18:01.180 only one. And I had this experience myself. I got into this book and this whole topic and spending

00:18:07.560 years studying regret because I started reckoning with, I had an, I'm going to, there's no way I

00:18:14.180 would have written this book in my thirties. I didn't have enough mileage on me, but in my fifties,

00:18:17.940 I had enough mileage behind me and I had enough mileage ahead of me. And I started thinking about

00:18:22.220 my regrets and, and just sheepishly started talking to them about them to some people.

00:18:27.000 And I found that people leaned in, people didn't recoil from this topic. People wanted to talk about

00:18:31.760 this, that we need to bring these, these, these negative feelings and regret in particular

00:18:35.540 out of the, out of hiding and have an intelligent conversation about it. Because again, it is a

00:18:42.360 powerful, powerful source for forward progress. I love this. Um, something you said reminded me

00:18:49.640 yesterday, I went for my annual physical and I love my doctor in New York. He gives me such a hard

00:18:53.880 time, but in a great way. And, um, he always tells me, so now I'm 51 and he's, he always says,

00:18:59.300 oh yeah, so you're a Mercedes Benz with 51,000 miles on you. That's what he says, right? And he's

00:19:03.520 been saying for years, he used to be 46,000 miles on you. But he said, the problem is these bodies

00:19:08.440 of ours were only designed to go 35,000 miles. We're cars that were meant to expire at 35,000

00:19:13.460 miles. So every mile after that, you got to be extra careful about exercising, taking care of

00:19:18.240 yourself and all that crap. It went downhill after that, Daniel. Um, all right, we're going to pick

00:19:21.960 it up. There's so much more I want to talk to you about, including the opening story of the book,

00:19:25.460 uh, and this French singer whose song or whose lyrics you may very well know. And Daniel tells a great

00:19:31.520 story about her and how it ended, uh, more with Daniel Pink, the author of The Power of Regret,

00:19:38.340 how looking backward moves us forward right after this.

00:19:48.580 You open the book with a scene, uh, it's dated October 24th, 1960 in France. And a, uh, composer

00:19:57.520 named Charles Dumont arrives at the Paris apartment of Edith Piaf. Um, and tell us the story because

00:20:06.420 it's, it's great. Pulled me right in. Well, uh, Edith Piaf was a very well-known French singer at the

00:20:13.000 time. Uh, she was not in great physical shape. She was even in her early, she was in her early

00:20:18.520 forties. She had a, she had a, even though her Mercedes Benz, uh, uh, had only 40,000 miles on it,

00:20:25.100 it looked like it had like 80,000 miles on it. And she was in, she was in pretty bad shape. Um,

00:20:31.200 and she was this, this notoriously kind of annoying person. And he, this, this composer who

00:20:36.460 she thought was beneath him, um, brought a song for her to sing. And the song was, um, called in

00:20:42.420 French, uh, je ne regrette rien and I regret nothing. And she listened to it. She ended up loving

00:20:50.380 singing that song and it actually reignited her career and became this anthem for this

00:20:55.980 no regrets philosophy. And then three years later, she died penniless. Um, but she, and

00:21:01.960 so you hear this song, I don't regret anything. I in television ads and radio ads all over the

00:21:08.080 place. And what's curious to me is like, here's, here's this person who has created this anthem

00:21:12.800 for the no regrets philosophy and had led a life choked with regrets. One of her, she was

00:21:21.080 married multiple times. She left her, she left her husband, she left her husband penniless.

00:21:26.120 Uh, she was addicted to drugs. She was addicted to alcohol. She had a baby when she was 17 that

00:21:32.780 she gave up that ultimately died. Uh, so this woman is choked with regrets and, um, even on

00:21:39.380 her deathbed, she expressed regrets, but she's known for this song. I regret nothing.

00:21:46.180 I was fascinated by the whole thing. So you gotta, you guys have got to buy the book. Cause

00:21:49.780 he, Dan does a great job. This is the reason he's the number one New York times bestseller,

00:21:53.360 but, um, you know, she doesn't want to see the composer. He, she's like kind of antisocial.

00:21:58.320 She really doesn't want anything to do with him, but then he starts playing this song and

00:22:01.920 she's like, what? And she goes out there and she, she hears it. She's like, Oh my God.

00:22:05.060 She makes him play it over and over and over and over and over that night. And then she winds up

00:22:09.420 singing it very famously at, you know, some popular venue in Paris and the Olympia, like the premier

00:22:16.980 Parisian concert venue. And they, and how many curtain calls were there? Oh, there were 20

00:22:23.640 something curtain calls. I mean, it was like, it's hard even to, it's hard even to imagine.

00:22:28.380 It's like that. It's like that, that, that Bruno song basically is that's how big it was.

00:22:32.520 So she, and, and we actually in preparation for your visit here today, cut a clip of it. Now it's

00:22:38.920 in, it's in French. I don't speak French. Um, so I'll play it in one second, but I'm going to tell

00:22:44.740 the audience basically what the, what the song says. So you have a general feel of what she's

00:22:48.560 singing. Uh, I wrote down the lyrics and it starts with no, nothing of nothing. No, I don't regret

00:22:54.080 anything. Neither the good things people have done to me, nor the bad things. It's all the same to me.

00:22:59.060 No, nothing of nothing. No, I don't regret anything. It's paid for, swept away, forgotten.

00:23:05.700 I don't care about the past with my memories. I lit up the fire, my troubles, my pleasures.

00:23:11.240 I don't need them anymore. The loves, the lovers are all swept away and all their drama swept away

00:23:18.460 forever. I start again from zero. Uh, and then she ends it with a no, nothing of nothing. I don't

00:23:24.560 regret anything because my life, because my joys today that starts with you. So the, they went

00:23:32.500 nuts. Everybody loved it. It spoke to so many people on a number of levels. This isn't the

00:23:37.100 whole song. It's about a 42nd clip of it and it is beautiful and it may be familiar to our audience.

00:23:41.600 Take a listen to Edith Piaf.

00:23:44.500 No, rien de rien. Non, je ne regrette rien. Ni le bien qu'on m'a fait. Ni le mal.

00:24:02.540 Tout ça m'a fait bien. Ni le bien qu'on ne me trompe. Ni le bien qu'on m'a fait.

00:24:05.180 Shabbai.

00:24:07.780 Ni le bien. Rien de rien. Non, je ne regrette rien. C'est payer. Bailler. Oublier. Je me fous

00:24:23.660 du passé.

00:24:25.720 Wow. Beautiful song. Amazing. And then, as you just pointed out, three years later,

00:24:39.560 she didn't die by suicide. She was just so frail and in such bad health. She died,

00:24:44.920 according to what I read, from cirrhosis and some other related liver disorders.

00:24:49.480 And her last words were, and I quote, every damn thing you do in this life,

00:24:54.640 you have to pay for. Holy shit, what a reversal, Dan.

00:25:00.080 Well, that's what I'm saying. And it's like a lot of this idea of no regrets, when we say no regrets,

00:25:05.960 it's a performance. It's not really who we are. And if we're actually a little bit more authentic

00:25:12.460 and say, yeah, I got some regrets and here's how I'm dealing with them and here's how they chart

00:25:16.140 the way forward, it's a lot healthier than dying in your mid-40s, penniless, sticking your husband

00:25:22.660 with all of your debts. And also just revealing at the very, very end of your life that you actually

00:25:30.380 had a lot of regrets. And those regrets were actually, in some ways, why you were in your

00:25:36.480 deathbed way before your time.

00:25:38.880 Right. Exactly. Obviously, I had to be related to her abuse of substances and so on. I mean,

00:25:44.800 that's how a lot of people self-medicate their way through regret and hopelessness. Anyway,

00:25:51.400 it's a fascinating story. And there's lots of them in the book. You'll get to know a lot of

00:25:54.740 interesting characters who, a lot of whom do the tattoos, no regrets, no regrets. And then you find

00:25:59.660 out, well, maybe just a few, like Frank Sinatra said. Yeah, this is great. The no regrets. We have

00:26:07.880 a full screen picture for the people who are going to watch this on YouTube. And this was somebody

00:26:11.380 actually, is this the picture of the actual woman from the story? Or is this, because she did this

00:26:16.620 in a homage to a movie or was this from the movie? I can't remember. Yeah, no, this is from that movie

00:26:21.600 We're the Millers, where Jason Sudeikis plays his character, who is sort of escaping some bad guys.

00:26:28.560 And he has this fake family and his fake daughter has a date with this dude. And the dude has this

00:26:32.900 tattoo that says, no regrets. And he's like, what is that? He's like, well, that's my credo. I have no

00:26:39.260 regrets. It's like, really, you have no regrets, like not even one letter. And so again, it's part

00:26:46.360 of the ridiculousness of this. I got a guy in the book, Megan, who was in the military,

00:26:50.880 lovely guy, went into the military in order to show his like macho-ness, got a no regrets tattoo

00:26:56.500 on his arm, the arm that he would see when he was shooting on his left arm, the arm that he would

00:27:00.920 see when he was shooting his rifle. And 14 years later, he realized he had regrets and he went to

00:27:06.100 have his tattoo removed. So, you know, so and he goes into the dermatologist office. And every time

00:27:11.400 there's a new technician, he says, Okay, I get it. I'm having a no regrets tattoo removed. The joke

00:27:16.500 is not lost, done, made. You know, I find I forgive me if this doesn't apply to you audience out there,

00:27:23.280 but I do find the more somebody says, you know, I am this, I am this, I am, I am a strong anti whatever,

00:27:32.660 the less likely it's true. You know, like, my my one friend's nanny, my friend is buttoned up.

00:27:40.760 Her nanny got a tattoo on the forearm that reads in big black letters, fighter.

00:27:48.140 My friend was like, Oh, and the truth is, she wasn't, you know, like, usually you get something

00:27:54.080 like that, because it's more aspirational than a statement about what's true.

00:27:58.660 And I think that's a nice way to put it. I think that for, you know, all these people with no

00:28:02.580 regrets tattoos, all these people singing the song, no regrets, they would be much better off

00:28:06.440 not performing their lives, but living their lives, thinking about their regrets, reckoning with them,

00:28:12.600 using them to extract lessons to to lead a better, more fulfilling, more successful life. And, you know,

00:28:18.940 and what's interesting about all of this is that this is not, there's, there's 50 years of science

00:28:23.620 telling us precisely how to do this. There are you categorize it into four groups, generally,

00:28:30.460 you know, a person's regrets. And, well, tell us what they are, first of all.

00:28:36.120 Sure. Well, let me tell you how I got them. Because so one of the things that I did for this

00:28:39.860 pile of this batch of research is that I did something called the World Regret Survey, where

00:28:44.000 I invited people around the world to submit their regrets. And in a blink, we ended up collecting

00:28:52.400 16,000 regrets from people in 105 countries. It's unbelievable. And what I found is that over

00:28:59.140 and over again, people kept expressing as exactly as you say, Megan, these same four core regrets.

00:29:04.180 And what was interesting about that is that the way that that's that academics had been dealing

00:29:08.440 with regret process, sort of categorizing regret, I think turned out to be a little bit off.

00:29:12.880 We tended to think that something is a career regret or a or a or a financial regret or a health

00:29:19.760 regret. And what I found beneath the surface is something else. Let me give you an example of

00:29:24.440 this. So I had in this database of regrets, huge numbers of regrets about people who didn't ask

00:29:32.700 somebody out on a date years ago. There's this person who I was really into, I didn't ask him or

00:29:37.380 her out. And I've regretted it ever since. That's a romance regret. Then you have people who regret not

00:29:42.740 starting businesses. Then you have people who regret not traveling enough. And all of those

00:29:49.180 regrets are the same. All of those regrets are exactly the same regret, even though one of them

00:29:53.420 seems like a career regret. One of them seems like a personal regret. One of them seems like a romance

00:29:57.400 regret. All of those regrets are the same. It's if their boldness regrets, if only I taken the chance.

00:30:04.040 And so around the world, these same four regrets keep coming up. Foundation regrets, if only I done the

00:30:10.300 work. People regret not saving money, not taking care of their car, their car, not taking care of

00:30:16.720 their bodies. I was still by the Mercedes Benz. Yeah. But really, but sort of what your doctor is

00:30:23.260 talking about, saying that your car is not in good enough shape because you haven't been changing the

00:30:26.760 oil. And I'll stop the automotive metaphor right now. Not taking care of your health, not saving money,

00:30:32.080 not working hard in school. That's a foundation regret. If only I'd done the work. Boldness regrets.

00:30:36.620 Over and over again, people regret not taking the chance in any domain of life. Third one,

00:30:44.460 moral regrets, which you and I have talked a little bit about here, which is if only I'd done

00:30:49.060 the right thing. These are regrets that people have. We mentioned bullying earlier, but these are

00:30:53.480 regrets that people have about infidelity and other kinds of and other kinds of things based on their

00:30:58.400 own moral code. They were at a juncture. They could do the right thing or the wrong thing.

00:31:02.740 And they end up doing the wrong thing and they regret it. And finally, there are connection

00:31:06.400 regrets, which is the biggest category, which is where you have people who have a relationship or

00:31:11.580 should have had a relationship. The relationship comes apart and they usually come apart in profoundly

00:31:17.900 undramatic ways. They just drift. Somebody wants to reach out. They don't reach out.

00:31:24.940 They think it's going to be awkward to reach out. They think the other side's not going to care.

00:31:28.180 And they drift apart again. And so connection regrets are if only I'd reached out. And what's

00:31:32.740 so interesting about this, regardless of age, nationality, race, gender, these same four regrets

00:31:40.560 keep coming up. If only I'd done the work. If only I'd taken the chance. If only I'd done the right

00:31:46.100 thing. And if only I'd reached out. And I think what's interesting about these regrets, Megan,

00:31:50.740 and this led me to a place that I didn't expect to go to, is that these four core regrets

00:31:57.340 operate as a photographic negative of the good life. If we understand what people regret the most,

00:32:03.020 they are telling us what they value the most and what we value in life, some stability,

00:32:09.360 a chance to learn and grow and do something. We value goodness and we value love. And so in this

00:32:15.780 weird way, this negative emotion, the thing that we've, you know, I don't, we try to shy away from

00:32:21.720 is actually giving us clues about what makes life worth living.

00:32:25.660 Yes. Clues. Yes, yes, yes. I love that. I can relate to this a hundred percent. When I was an

00:32:30.820 unhappy lawyer, it was, um, after nine 11, it was, let's say 2002 in Chicago and nine 11 had happened.

00:32:39.240 And I watched in particular, Ashley Banfield that day on television. She was magnificent.

00:32:42.960 Oh yeah. I remember that. Then with NBC news. And, um, I, not only did I admire her and appreciate

00:32:48.860 the public service she was providing, but I had another feeling it was envy, which must be a close

00:32:55.240 cousin of regret. Somehow. I don't, I think there's somehow related, but I considered instead of just

00:33:01.120 wallowing in my envy, I flipped it and decided and understood like on an inherent level. Envy is a tell

00:33:08.740 envy is an opportunity. Envy is something it's my own brain and heart telling me you took a path.

00:33:14.920 You want to take a path that you haven't yet taken. Like you want to get to a place that you're not yet

00:33:19.340 at. And it was still possible, right? It was still possible for me. And, and then I took it right.

00:33:25.040 And here I am 20 plus years later, very glad that I did, but right. It's a clue. If you can take these

00:33:30.480 quote unquote negative emotions, like regret, like envy, and instead of just wallowing and feeling bad,

00:33:36.360 I'd say, Oh, it's a clue. It's a little mystery. The mystery of me, I'm solving it.

00:33:42.520 It is. I like that. I like that mystery of me. That's a good phrase. I mean, I think that that

00:33:46.720 that's what it is. I mean, when we feel, here's the thing, when we feel the spear of regret, when we

00:33:53.700 feel that negative emotion, the world is trying to tell us something. We are trying to tell ourselves

00:34:01.620 something and you can't ignore the signal. Now, the trouble that people have is that it's, it's

00:34:09.100 regret is painful and it's instructive, but you can't have just one. You can't have the instruction

00:34:15.740 without the pain. You have to use that pain and discomfort as a signal. And when we do that,

00:34:20.700 it points the way because the other thing about this emotion of regret is it is clarifying just as

00:34:27.300 these 16,000 people who around the world who submitted regret. It is a chorus telling us what

00:34:33.720 they care about in their life. And what they care about in their life is not whether they buy a blue

00:34:38.180 car or a gray car, whether they live in a super big house or a modestly big house. What they care

00:34:43.680 about is some stability in their lives. They care about the chance to lead a psychologically rich life

00:34:49.360 and do something in their limited time here. They care about being good. I'm convinced most people

00:34:55.440 care about being good and they care about love. And that's why this emotion that instead of denying

00:35:02.640 it or wallowing it, if we stare it in the eye, it's going to instruct us and it's going to clarify what

00:35:08.140 makes a good life. It's a reminder of your values. I got that. But also you make the point in the book

00:35:13.720 that it can also be an exercise. If you, if you run it through your regret, if you see it through to

00:35:19.840 the end, it can be an exercise that you've been doing in unnecessary self-flagellation. Like you

00:35:25.520 write in the book, and I love this, and I totally agree with it, that we have this combination when

00:35:29.980 we do, when we think back on the things we regret of, we do time travel and fabulism. You say it's a

00:35:37.120 human superpower. I wrote, ha, ha, ha. I am good actually at not doing this. And the thing that I'm good at

00:35:42.960 not doing is the fabulism. Like I'll go back and say, what, well, remember me making that decision?

00:35:47.640 What if I had done a different decision? But you have to be realistic. Let's say you did call the

00:35:52.820 guy who you wanted to call or the gal, right? You, you didn't let that person get away. People lament

00:35:58.580 not having made the call to the person they thought should have been their spouse. And then that person

00:36:02.540 married somebody else. It's like the fabulism is they would have accepted my invitation. We would

00:36:08.760 have hit it off brilliantly. We would have had this amazing life to get, well, how do you know? You don't

00:36:12.920 know any of that. That's your super, your human superpower kicking in and it may not be serving

00:36:17.620 you very well. Well, what really bugs people though, is that, is that there, they don't know

00:36:23.920 the answer to the story. And so there's a guy who I wrote about in the book who he's a 62 year old guy

00:36:30.740 in Spokane, Washington. He graduated from college in the early 1980s. He, he goes to Europe for a year

00:36:38.900 to work on a farm in Sweden. His final days in Europe, he's taking a train and he's taking the train

00:36:45.720 through France. He's sitting on this train and he, there's a seat open next to him. A young woman

00:36:51.400 comes on and sits next to him on this train. His, he's an American. His French is not very good.

00:36:56.780 Her English is much better. They start talking. They start laughing. They start playing word games

00:37:03.600 like, you know, hangman on pieces of paper. It's a, it's, it's a pre-wordal world. Um, they, um,

00:37:10.520 they start leaning into each other. They start holding hands. And he said, it's like, I'd known

00:37:15.300 her my whole life. The train, she's Belgian. She's working as an au pair in France. The train gets to

00:37:20.960 Belgium. She says, it's my stop. They don't know what to do. He doesn't know what to do. He madly

00:37:27.380 scribbles his parents' mailing address in Texas on a piece of paper, hands it to her. They kiss. He,

00:37:32.880 she, she steps off the train and he, 40 years later says, I've always wished I stepped off the

00:37:40.060 train. Now, does he, is he certain that he would have had this passel of Belgian American kids later

00:37:46.000 on? No. But what bugs him is the, what if that at that moment in his life, he didn't take the

00:37:52.660 chance. It might not have worked out, but that what if has bugged him for 40 years into what is now

00:38:00.740 a very unsatisfying marriage. And once he disclosed this regret to me to in this survey,

00:38:06.880 and I ended up interviewing him a couple of times, he ended up acting on it to try to get to the end

00:38:11.860 of the story. He ended up posting things in Paris Craigslist, looking for a woman named Sondra who was

00:38:17.200 riding on a train in 1983. Uh, and so, so this is it. It's the what if that really, really gnaws at us.

00:38:25.200 So, but this is where I would say, you know, it's very, very rare to look back at a situation like

00:38:30.020 that with regret. If you're very happy in your current relationship or very rare to look back

00:38:34.880 on your inability to save, you know, or do, do better with your paycheck when you first started

00:38:39.280 out. If now you have a full bank account, you know, and so it can be used also as a tell, like

00:38:44.020 if it's still bothering me, there's probably a reason for that. And maybe I can use this as a,

00:38:48.920 as a, you know, something that spurs me to action right now that could effectively help erase that

00:38:54.500 regret or assuage that, that regret. It can be, you're right. Like something that you can use

00:38:59.680 for good. Um, and also I do think sort of the cognitive therapy of, I like your word of tell

00:39:05.700 it's a tell it's a clue. It's a signal. It's a knock at the door and you can either ignore it

00:39:13.700 or you can answer the door. And what 50 years of science tells us along with the hundreds of

00:39:18.960 interviews that I've done is that when we answer the door, we're better off. Hmm. So interesting.

00:39:24.320 Okay. Quick break more with the one and only Daniel Pink. Isn't he interesting? This is so

00:39:28.540 great. You got to buy the book. It is called the power of regret. How looking backward moves us

00:39:33.940 forward. Uh, and don't forget while I have your attention, you can find the Megan Kelly show live

00:39:38.100 and Sirius XM triumph channel one 11 every weekday at noon East and the full video show and clips by

00:39:43.380 subscribing to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megan Kelly. If you prefer an audio podcast,

00:39:48.160 subscribe and download an Apple, Spotify, Pandora stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:39:53.680 I do check the Apple comments to hear what you guys think about the show. And I find them invaluable.

00:39:59.520 Uh, and while you're there, you'll find our more than 250 shows in our archives. Check them out.

00:40:11.220 You get to another thing in the book. That's wrestled with this to free will versus fate. And when you

00:40:17.900 were telling the story about the man on the train and how she got off and he never found her, you know,

00:40:24.600 I felt like if that man were sitting across from me, I would have said something like if, if it were

00:40:29.240 meant to be, the universe would have brought you back together. Like there, if this person is meant

00:40:34.060 to be in your life, you know, one of the souls that's meant to be in your life, the universe will

00:40:38.420 make it happen. And then I, I laugh because I do believe in this sort of power, whether it's God,

00:40:44.320 the universe energy, whatever it is. And yet I totally believe also that I'm the one who will

00:40:50.220 make the good luck happen to me. I don't knock on wood. I will, I will make the good thing happen.

00:40:54.820 I don't have to rely on the universe. So how do I square those things?

00:40:58.560 Well, let me just start by saying you're not alone. I did a big public opinion survey where I asked

00:41:02.880 people, do you think we, do you think we wanted to know what do people believe? Do we have free will

00:41:06.660 or does everything happen for a reason? And 80% of people said, yes, we have free will and everything

00:41:13.340 happens for a reason. And I found that as this like hyper-rational guy, like kind of annoying

00:41:17.400 because I thought it was a contradiction. But then I realized it was actually kind of insightful

00:41:21.320 because I think that that's really the secret of the, of our lives, right? We, we have to figure

00:41:26.860 out what we can control and what we can't and focus on the things that we can control because we do

00:41:31.840 have free will, but also recognize that a lot of things are out of our control. And in a way,

00:41:37.200 regret clarify, regret clarifies that as well. That, that it teaches us that we, there are some

00:41:45.340 things that we can control. We are some things that we can do. We can take that chance. We can

00:41:50.200 make that call. We can do the right thing, but there are many things where they're just out of

00:41:54.820 our control. And so don't get wigged out by those focus on what you can control and ignore what you

00:42:01.060 can. You know, at the same time, I mean, again, the thing is I just got led, like even these four

00:42:06.420 core regrets that I was talking about before, they're partly about, about opportunity and partly

00:42:13.220 about obligation. So is a, what is a good life? Is a good life all opportunity? No, I think that's

00:42:19.200 kind of hollow. If your life is all about opportunity, is your, is a good life about

00:42:23.440 obligation only? I think that's a little stricken. What is a good life? A good life is about opportunity

00:42:29.840 and obligation. And so this, with this emotion of regret is just to my surprise, just clarifying

00:42:35.640 really what life is about. We want a life of opportunity and obligation, and we want to be

00:42:39.900 able to focus on what we can control and let karma or fate or God or the spirit do the rest of its

00:42:46.700 work. Do people who have a stronger belief in fate, again, whether you want to call that the

00:42:52.560 universe, God, whatever it is for you, have fewer regrets, right? Because it's sort of like turning it

00:42:57.820 over. There's some evidence that in cultures that are more fatalistic, that they have fewer

00:43:04.480 regrets because they don't feel that sense of agency that is necessary for regret. And again,

00:43:11.620 there's, there are cultural differences there. I think that for Americans, Americans, I think in

00:43:16.080 one way, partly being American is actually feeling that sense of agency and feeling that sense of

00:43:20.800 responsibility and recognizing you do have some sovereignty over what you do and how you do it.

00:43:26.900 And so I think Americans might be slightly more prone to, to at least the initial spear of regret,

00:43:34.020 because we believe in individualism and we believe in individual agency.

00:43:38.320 It doesn't mean we're less happy than people who are in authoritarian countries where every decision

00:43:43.860 is made for them. Oh my God. No, no, no. People in authoritarian countries aren't happy because they're

00:43:48.960 living in authoritarian countries. But, but, you know, you have a, you have a country like, you have a

00:43:52.940 country like, um, like India, which is, well, not that authoritarian, uh, but, um, but where there's a

00:44:00.540 greater sense of fatalism and you might have fewer regrets, but you also have less agency. And one of the

00:44:05.880 things I think that's interesting about regret is that it reminds us that we actually do have agency

00:44:10.680 over things that we're not merely at the fate of others or the fate of the world, that we can't

00:44:15.940 exercise some sovereignty over the course of our life. And on the question, going back to the

00:44:21.360 fabulous thing, um, one, what a guy who I did a lot of reading of his books when I was here, Dr. Phil,

00:44:28.360 he used to say, and this actually very much helped me answer the what if question, you know, what if

00:44:35.880 I had done it differently? What if I had made a different choice? What if I answer, go ahead and

00:44:40.760 answer it. Nine times out of 10, you don't know, or it would have had downsides or it's unclear.

00:44:47.060 Or even if you get to the place where you're worrying about the future, like what if I do this

00:44:50.660 and it winds up, you know, turning out poorly. Okay. Then what will you do? Will you pick yourself

00:44:54.820 up and you dust yourself off and you'll hopefully have learned something, right? Like answering the

00:44:58.720 what if question can be very beneficial. I agree. And the problem, what happens is when we don't answer

00:45:04.940 the what, what if question, when we're hobbled by that sense of what, if we are less happy,

00:45:10.220 we contribute less to the world, we are not as capable partners and parents. And so,

00:45:16.220 but when we reckon with these things, this is the whole point. Regret is our teacher. It is our

00:45:21.480 instructor. It is a, to use your words again, Megan, it is a tell, it is a clue. It is a knock

00:45:26.460 at the door. And the more we just, again, get past this idea that having no regrets is an act of courage

00:45:32.000 and recognize that what is really courage is staring your regrets in the eye and doing something

00:45:36.540 about them, then I think we'll all be better off.

00:45:38.320 It reminds me of someone I used to care very much about who got in some trouble and I was talking

00:45:44.100 to him about, you know, what happened and whether he was okay. And instead of talking about all this,

00:45:50.960 like the, the true feelings, he kissed his bicep. This is back in my twenties and said, you know,

00:45:56.500 did the, this one's iron, this one's steel. And it's exactly the wrong place to go, right? It's what

00:46:03.120 you're saying. That that is the no regret tattoo where you're sweeping everything as opposed to the

00:46:10.140 true processing.

00:46:10.860 Kissing your biceps is a tell that you should get a different kind of friend.

00:46:16.420 Well, which I did. Oh, he was a good man. He's just in pain and not quite sure how to deal with

00:46:22.700 it. And yet your book speaks to people exactly like that. Uh, Daniel, I did not expect to fall

00:46:28.320 as in love with this as I, at the first I was like, this is a bullshit book. I'm the, he's not

00:46:32.240 going to have a good time here. Cause I totally reject his whole premise. And then I read it and

00:46:35.840 I felt totally differently. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. Thanks for having Megan. I

00:46:41.180 appreciate it. You bet. Daniel pink, the power of regret. Check it out. All right. Up next,

00:46:46.480 Emily Jashinsky and Eliana Johnson coming up to break down Whoopi Goldberg's latest comments on the

00:46:51.560 Holocaust, the endless parade of maskless politicians and celebrities and more. Don't go away.

00:46:58.320 Whoopi Goldberg says the Holocaust was not about race and California governor Gavin Newsom is caught

00:47:07.380 yet again, breaking his own mask mandate and caught in a lie about why he did it. Get to that in one

00:47:14.440 second. First, joining me now to discuss all the hot headlines happening right now. Emily Jashinsky is

00:47:19.660 culture editor at the Federalist and Eliana Johnson editor in chief of the Washington free beacon and

00:47:25.300 co-host of the podcast ink stained wretches. Welcome back ladies. Good to have you. Thanks for

00:47:30.820 having us. Emily, I continue to butcher your last name. Jashinsky. That's right. No, it's not butchered

00:47:36.920 at all. I listen to you every day. I love the Federalist. I really honestly, Jashinsky, Jashinsky.

00:47:42.640 Okay. Um, I just, I get nervous when you come on and then I screw it up. Um, okay, let's start with

00:47:47.360 Whoopi. Whoopi Goldberg has stepped in it. And let me just start with this. Of course they're like,

00:47:54.960 she should be fired. The internal ABC nasty staffers. Whoopi been there. Um, so she should

00:48:02.760 not be fired. She stepped in it. All right. She's in a controversy, but I, I hate the act like fire,

00:48:07.980 fire, fire, fire. Um, here's what happened. She went on the view yesterday and made comments about the

00:48:13.740 Holocaust that were really boneheaded. I mean, crazy ass boneheaded. And this is how the controversy

00:48:20.160 got started. Listen to what she said yesterday. If you're going to do this, then let's be truthful

00:48:24.700 about it because the Holocaust isn't about race. No, no, it's not about race, but it's, it's not about

00:48:35.840 race. It's not about race because it's about man's inhumanity to man. That's what it's about.

00:48:44.680 But it's about white supremacy.

00:48:46.300 Well, but it's not, it's not about race, but these are two white groups of people.

00:48:52.360 Well, that was after black, but you're missing the point. You're missing the point. The minute you

00:48:57.800 turn it into race, it goes down this alley. Let's talk about it for what it is. It's how people treat

00:49:04.120 each other. It's a problem. It doesn't matter if you're black or white because black, white Jews,

00:49:10.800 uh, it's how everybody eats each other. Okay. So before we get to the attempt at cleanup,

00:49:17.980 um, let's start, let me start with you on this, Eliana. What, what was wrong with what she said?

00:49:24.040 Uh, where do we begin? Uh, I'm with you, Megan. She should not be fired. Everybody has an

00:49:29.660 unfortunate statement. We can fault her for ignorance. Okay. Um, the, this is what happens

00:49:36.160 when you live in a, uh, color of your skin race essentialist world. The Holocaust, of course,

00:49:43.200 uh, Jews were not considered a part of the Aryan race. Um, even though their skin color matched that

00:49:50.160 of their Aryan German counterparts, uh, Hitler had different theories about what made one, uh,

00:49:57.180 pure blooded, um, in the race essentialist view of, uh, our liberal contemporaries, uh, Jews are,

00:50:05.500 uh, white privileged people. And that is obviously the view that Whoopi Goldberg has, uh, has embraced.

00:50:11.940 And it was interesting in her apology. She cited the anti-defamation league and they too talk about

00:50:17.620 Jews of color and white Jews. Uh, so that's the problem with what, uh, with what she said

00:50:22.900 yesterday and why there was so much blowback on it. Perfectly said. Okay. So now let's get to her

00:50:28.200 attempted cleanup. First, she issues a statement, a written statement, uh, apologizing yesterday was a

00:50:33.740 tweet that basically where she said, you know, I stepped in it and I'm sorry. Then she made the

00:50:38.580 mistake of going on with Stephen Colbert and talking about it live. And it's very clear she does better

00:50:44.180 when somebody is controlling her written apology than she does when she actually is going back to

00:50:48.380 how she really feels. And here she was last night on Colbert. I feel being black. When we talk about

00:50:55.560 race, it's a very different thing to me as a black person. I think of race as being something that I

00:51:01.920 can see when you talk about, uh, being a racist, I was saying, you can't call this racism. This was

00:51:10.660 evil. This wasn't, this wasn't based on the skin. You couldn't tell who was Jewish. They had to delve

00:51:17.280 deeply to figure it out. If the Klan is coming down the street and I'm standing with a Jewish friend

00:51:24.800 and neither one, well, I'm going to run. But if my friend decides not to run, they'll get passed by

00:51:35.300 most times because you can't tell who's Jewish.

00:51:41.080 She actually finished that one clip, Emily, where she was like, you know, um, talking about

00:51:46.260 figuring out how the Nazis had to figure out who was Jewish. And she actually said they had to do

00:51:50.780 the work. Oh my God. That's like one of those woke phrases used on Hitler. I like my head's going to

00:51:58.140 explode. But so she dug herself in deeper there. And it actually was a perfect example of, of what we

00:52:04.080 were just talking about, right? Like the race essentialism. Like if I can't see it, it must not

00:52:07.860 be, it must not be as you say. Yeah. And that's, and Eliana explained it perfectly. Um, and that's

00:52:14.120 exactly what it is. And what will be Goldberg sounds like to me as somebody who's grappling

00:52:18.080 really poorly with this fringe academic theory that, um, has been really popular and sort of radical

00:52:24.760 circles, especially among radical activists for a very long time, um, that has sort of slowly

00:52:29.780 crept into the mainstream, but whoopie Goldberg is just has a very tenuous understanding of it and

00:52:34.580 isn't able to express it because when it is in the sort of light of day, it's really hard to actually

00:52:40.340 defend. It's one of those ideas that you can sort of defend in your own circles when everybody agrees

00:52:45.060 with you. But then when you're confronted with challenges to it, it just absolutely punctures,

00:52:49.140 but that's the benefit. And that's why you should never fire people who are in sort of situations

00:52:53.980 like this, because these ideas fester unless they are out here in the light of day. And you can

00:52:58.220 have somebody like Eliana come on a show like this and explain exactly why it's wrong. Um,

00:53:03.240 and why it's so obviously like clearly wrong. Um, because otherwise these ideas just sort of

00:53:08.180 circulate in areas where they aren't getting challenged. Um, and, and people need to hear

00:53:11.620 the debate on them. Well, that's the, I mean, that's the only thing, like whatever she sees with

00:53:15.620 her eyes, there's no question that Hitler saw Jews as quote, an inferior race. I mean, there's

00:53:22.860 like, that's just knowing your basic history. Um, so she was confused. She didn't understand it. I

00:53:29.000 get it. And she keeps digging. And today what happened on the show was she went out there and

00:53:34.980 said, and I quote yesterday on our show, I misspoke. Okay. That's, that's not what misspeaking

00:53:43.060 is misspeaking is when I called Mike Huckabee, Mike fuckabee that that is misspeaking. One of my best

00:53:51.920 moments on the air. Um, she spoke intentionally and in her head correctly, but she was wrong.

00:53:58.760 That's what she needs to say. Uh, then she said, I said, the Holocaust wasn't about race and was

00:54:03.640 instead about man's inhumanity to man. It is indeed about race because Hitler and the Nazis considered

00:54:08.980 Jews to be the inferior race words matter. Mine are no exception. I regret my comments. I stand

00:54:14.800 corrected. And she had, uh, the CEO of the anti-defamation league, this guy, Jonathan Greenblatt,

00:54:19.640 who's just been terrible. I mean, he's just been terrible. He's changed the ADL into something that

00:54:23.880 used to be noble in its purpose to just this crazy woke organization that, that it doesn't know what

00:54:29.680 it stands for. It just redefined the definition of racism this week to something absolutely insane.

00:54:34.340 Um, but it's consistent with the woke ideology of basically any system, any system that discriminates

00:54:40.760 is racist. Um, anyway, he was there and now he's calling for the view to add a Jewish cohost,

00:54:45.800 right? You need representation to solve problems like this. What do you make of that, Eliana?

00:54:51.180 Well, I will answer your question, but I just wanted to say, I mean, this goes to show we,

00:54:56.420 we now do this ritualistic apologizing when, when we make mistakes or are asked to,

00:55:01.500 and the whoopie thing shows how absurd that is where she issues this apology on Twitter and then

00:55:07.120 goes on Colbert and doubles down essentially on her original comments. And it just shows what a

00:55:12.520 complete sham these apologies are. But, um, it, you know, Megan, uh, remind me of your question.

00:55:19.380 I've now got about this ADL guy, Jonathan Greenblatt. I totally agree with you. Uh, we need to point

00:55:26.000 out that Jonathan Greenblatt is head of the ADL has teamed up with Al Sharpton, one of the most

00:55:30.380 notorious anti-Semites now laundered into the mainstream to go after Facebook, um, and has

00:55:36.920 embraced the ADL put out a statement. Uh, I think it was just last week about, uh, a scholarship for

00:55:42.720 Jews of color, embracing the idea that there's a difference between Jews with more melanin and Jews

00:55:48.520 with lesser melanin, which is what whoopie Goldberg is talking about and how she stepped in it.

00:55:52.860 Wow. Well, it's probably no accident. She booked him. So now back to the cattiness within the walls

00:56:00.460 at ABC. I mean, this is like, I'm reading the story and partly I'm like, trigger, trigger. This is

00:56:06.760 like, I remember what it's like to have the nameless, faceless staffers speaking out to places like the

00:56:13.060 Daily Mail, like she should be fired. Why hasn't the company said or done more? And, uh, you know,

00:56:17.600 it's, there's always a platform for these people to try to stick the knife in when somebody who's as

00:56:23.260 rich as whoopie is successful as she is stumbles, as opposed to saying teachable moment, she screwed

00:56:29.640 up, she's owning it. Let's move on. I mean, I realized it's because of the way her mind is built

00:56:34.200 and all the things that we've just been talking about in terms of the way, you know, her wokeism,

00:56:37.960 but like, fine. That actually is totally consistent with the staffers at ABC and the way they see the

00:56:43.060 world. I don't, I don't, we go right away, Emily, to fire, fire, fire, fire.

00:56:49.160 Well, yeah. And the view is sort of, people have literally written books about this,

00:56:52.900 but the view is one of those atmospheres where leaks are sometimes worse than at other times.

00:56:57.600 And it's sort of many seasons, but it's one of the worst places, um, because there is this

00:57:02.120 cattiness behind the scenes that doesn't exactly, uh, just abuse people of the stereotypes about women

00:57:07.500 that they may hold. Um, and I was going to say, Emily, you're just playing into some noxious

00:57:11.880 gender stereotypes here. Uh, yes, you're right. We need, we need Whoopi Goldberg to come on here

00:57:17.360 and explain sort of feminist theory to us so that we can speak, um, more moral clarity.

00:57:22.220 Who wouldn't watch that? But no, I mean, the view is like one of the worst places for this. And it's

00:57:27.860 just actually just sort of baked into the way the view is run. Um, it's a huge part of it is run via

00:57:33.260 media leaks. This is how they actually litigate their workplace problems. Um, and so it's, it, to me,

00:57:38.720 it just speaks to a lack of leadership, um, at the, at the show that people, you know, one way to stop

00:57:44.860 people from leaking is to make them not want to leak. Um, the Trump white house, in fact,

00:57:48.960 suffered with this problem. Um, and so when you have those issues, I think that they actually

00:57:53.500 really, the, the, the view needs is, is pretty desperate for a shakeup. And I think that is

00:57:57.440 imminent, um, because this is just not sustainable. It's the cattiest place to work in television.

00:58:02.960 I mean, just the knives are out from the moment you step onto the set. If you happen to be the

00:58:09.060 more moderate person, right? Nevermind conservative, just the more moderate, even

00:58:13.520 Megan McCain, who hated Trump, you would have thought that would have been her ticket in to

00:58:18.160 being at least acceptable to these ladies. Nope. I mean, God, they, they were, they had it in for

00:58:23.060 her every day. There was a leak, some nasty leak about her every day in the press. Um, now, uh,

00:58:28.540 I will say this, when it comes to antisemitism, the mainstream media does give people a pass.

00:58:34.880 It's the one sin against a group, a religious group, an ethnic group, a cultural group,

00:58:40.400 a race that the mainstream media is very quick to forgive, right? Very quick. And if this had

00:58:46.420 been a white woman making a similar comments about blacks, about Asians, about, you know,

00:58:51.000 gays and lesbians, anything that was just sort of tone deaf, deaf, or if actually inaccurate,

00:58:55.420 um, I think there'd be a very different reaction from ABC, but you tell me, because there's been

00:59:00.120 a history of tolerance when it comes to remarks that are antisemitic on mainstream media. Eliana.

00:59:06.440 That's of course true. And I think the reason for it is that so often we see antisemitism crop up

00:59:12.740 in minority communities, which is uncomfortable for the mainstream. And beyond that, um, often crop up

00:59:19.740 in diversity inclusion bureaucracies, uh, precisely for the reason that Whoopi Goldberg said, which is

00:59:26.400 that, uh, Jews are often, uh, they are considered white, they look white, and as a result are not

00:59:33.740 treated as minorities and, uh, and, uh, are not, uh, favorably treated by members of the diversity

00:59:42.980 inclusion establishment. And, uh, the mainstream is reluctant to slam the bureaucrats who staff

00:59:47.900 that establishment. Mm-hmm. Okay. So now Greenblatt wants them to add a Jewish panelist, uh, to the

00:59:53.840 mix. I mean, it would be amazing. It would be amazing to see somebody like Barry Weiss sitting

00:59:58.420 on the set when a remark like that was made. That really would be fun. But most people like Barry Weiss

01:00:04.020 have full rich lives and they don't want to spend their days fighting, having catfights that are

01:00:10.020 surface level with women who hate them, right? Who can't stand them. Like, why would you do that to

01:00:15.840 yourself? I could also shoot bamboo shoots underneath my fingernails all day, but I don't want to do

01:00:20.140 that. But that's like the craziest thing about The View right now is that it's not like if they want

01:00:25.800 to, and this was Barbara Walter's original mission with The View, was to have a place where women's

01:00:29.860 views would be represented and could sort of clash and be debated and all of that. That's actually like

01:00:35.120 what she said explicitly the ambition of the show was. And it hasn't even been around that long.

01:00:39.640 And it collapsed so quickly because, and you can go back years, The View was really a glimpse into

01:00:45.040 the future of the legacy media at how intolerant they were of anybody who said anything wrong or

01:00:51.280 anything that sort of transgressed the boundaries of cultural leftism. And that's really what this

01:00:55.780 is about. And Whoopi Goldberg is basically talking about the logical endpoint of wokeism and sort of

01:01:02.520 critical theory. This is really where it goes. And people are deeply uncomfortable with it, but it's

01:01:07.640 what they are mainstreaming every single day by paying lip service to this and by sort of virtue

01:01:14.400 signaling in all of these different ways. They are opening the gates for this really noxious

01:01:19.980 ideology that is ultimately not good for anybody. But The View, that's what's so crazy about this.

01:01:25.640 It's just such a situation where you're feeding the hand that bites you. They are the place where this

01:01:31.120 was mainstreamed in the first place. And here it is. And it's not good for them. And they're finding that

01:01:36.160 out the hard way. Well, that's the thing. I mean, I think most conservatives are against

01:01:39.820 cancel culture, Eliana. But there is something that's tempting about it when the person in the

01:01:45.380 crosshairs has been so incredibly judgmental and called for other people's jobs and absolutely refused

01:01:52.960 to extend to anyone the benefit of the doubt during their controversies. When that's the person

01:01:57.920 issue, it's you really have to work hard to muster up your weight. Remember, we don't we're not in favor

01:02:03.920 of this. Wait a minute. Right. I really can only speak for myself. I'm not sure what the views of

01:02:08.920 most conservatives are on that. But but I rarely believe that fire firing or going after somebody's

01:02:16.360 deployment is the answer to a lot of these problems. In fact, I think having this conversation

01:02:22.060 on the view would be incredibly interesting and constructive, mostly having these discussions

01:02:27.280 that that the firing avoids the firing is normally a silence and saying these are things we can't

01:02:33.940 discuss. This is outside the realm of polite conversation is detrimental and that most of

01:02:39.440 these things are better off being discussed out in the open rather than silencing by simply

01:02:44.120 getting rid of somebody. Well, I have to tell you guys that that's why, you know,

01:02:48.460 independent media is doing so well because we've had to take these conversations to a different

01:02:52.980 place. You can't have them on network television anymore in a meaningful way. You can't you could

01:02:57.460 never have a situation in which whoopies stood her ground and said, let me explain you why to you why

01:03:02.080 I really think I'm right. And then have somebody you come on and say, like, you're 100 percent wrong.

01:03:06.340 This is why I'm deeply offended by right, like back and forth and sort of get to the end earnestly

01:03:11.540 and honestly that that just doesn't happen, doesn't happen even in cable. All right. So speaking of

01:03:16.360 firings and controversies over, you know, stepping in it, Emily, what happened with the Real Housewives

01:03:22.180 on Bravo? And this one was Salt Lake City. First, there was I only watched a few episodes of this,

01:03:27.660 but the one gal turned out to be like a fraud and she got in trouble criminally. Now there's another

01:03:32.360 gal who just got fired because she had non woke tweets. Yeah. And there's arguably another one that

01:03:37.880 has a weird situation going on with her Pentecostal church that what's happening to Salt Lake City ladies

01:03:42.780 that I don't know. I don't know how this happened. And it's even weirder because Bravo vets these

01:03:47.580 women so thoroughly. And that's one of the cases with Jenny, who was recently fired from the Real

01:03:52.580 Housewives of Salt Lake City. And by the way, I should say the last time I saw Eliana right before

01:03:56.580 the pandemic, I think we spent like an hour talking about the Real Housewives, which it was only

01:04:01.520 appropriate. But that was New York, though, because I don't watch Salt Lake City. That's right. I'm into that

01:04:06.340 too. Yeah, like City has been amazing. But Jenny, in the course of 2020, posted a lot of like, I would

01:04:14.140 say crudely expressed memes, which are what memes are, that you know, are not outside the mainstream

01:04:19.800 of what a lot of people put on their Facebook news feeds about like sort of pro police and anti BLM

01:04:26.240 anti protester. One of them was just a couple of days after the Jacob Blake shooting in Kenosha,

01:04:32.540 not far from where I'm where I grew up. And it said something like if you this is a good sort of

01:04:37.060 representative sampling, it said something like, if you like follow the officers orders,

01:04:41.860 you won't get shot. So I actually have. Well, yeah, I have it here. Exactly. If you follow the

01:04:47.360 officers orders, you won't get shot. And there was one earlier where she had written, I'm sick

01:04:51.400 people saying cops need more training. You had 18 years to teach your kid it's wrong to loot, steal,

01:04:55.960 set buildings ablaze, block traffic, laser people's eyes, overturn cars, destroy buildings and

01:04:59.640 attack citizens who failed who. Go ahead. Right. And so what she's basically saying is

01:05:05.160 that there's a cultural problem instead of, you know, this is more about a culture instead of the

01:05:10.580 cops. And she's taking the police's side of the argument, which again, is hardly outside the

01:05:14.460 mainstream. It's certainly harsh and it would certainly be uncomfortable conversation in a

01:05:18.760 green room in Manhattan. But it's like pretty normal fare. And she got fired. All of her castmates

01:05:25.480 sort of dramatically denounced her. She has since come out and made some weird excuses.

01:05:29.960 Trigger again, trigger. Right. And she has since come out and said, basically, like, I'm not ashamed

01:05:36.440 to be a Republican, which is really interesting, too. And it would make the show a whole lot more

01:05:41.400 interesting as well. But there's so much weird stuff going on with the situation in that one of

01:05:46.240 her castmates, Mary Cosby, had said that she liked her slanted eyes. Jenny is Asian. She is she

01:05:53.120 escaped Vietnam on a boat. She said she was captured by Thai pirates. She came over to America

01:05:58.120 as a refugee. Christians brought her over to this country. And here she is getting axed by Bravo on

01:06:04.840 over reality TV. I mean, the whole thing is just ridiculous. And the last point I'll make is that

01:06:09.860 if you are watching reality TV to see people behave virtuously, you are doing it wrong. These are

01:06:16.120 antiheroes. They are not protagonists. And if you see them that way, it says something about how

01:06:22.100 you're approaching the world and where you're finding your heroes, because these are supposed

01:06:26.480 to be things we laugh at. And when we laugh, we reinforce those boundaries of what's right and

01:06:31.500 wrong. This is about decadence and about what fame and money does to women. And if you're looking to

01:06:36.720 them for moral representation or moral values, you're you're gravely mistaken. Right. And we're

01:06:42.240 like, what are they saying that you have you have to be woke and talk about all these tough issues

01:06:46.620 in the exact right woke way in order to be on Bravo? I mean, and in order to be on the real

01:06:53.180 housewives, who are they kidding? That's it. First of all, who the hell would watch that?

01:06:58.100 Right. Not me. Not me. Right. And it's like, why are we firing people from Vanderpump rules for being

01:07:04.260 bad people? That is the point of Vanderpump rule. It's why it's fun to watch. Yes, that's exactly

01:07:10.020 right. You watch it so that you can feel like a better person. That is that should be the tagline.

01:07:14.940 So they better stop firing all the people who are controversial. Otherwise, it's not going to have

01:07:19.360 that soothing balm. All right. Wait, there's so much more to go over. And I cannot wait to get to

01:07:24.040 Gavin Newsom caught maskless at the big football game last week. And then he tried to explain why.

01:07:31.460 And now the lie has been put to that nonsense. And we'll show you the proof.

01:07:36.240 Okay, so Gavin Newsom, he goes to I guess it was the NFC championship game at the stadium. I think

01:07:50.460 it's the same stadium where the Super Bowl is going to be. And this is just last week. And he gets caught

01:07:56.500 on camera without his mask on. And like in one of the pictures that was circulating as like,

01:08:03.360 there was an indoor mask mandate in California. Thanks to you, Governor Gavin Newsom. You're the

01:08:08.320 one who imposed it. And there you are inside with your mask off. That's that's not right. That's

01:08:14.340 rules for the and not for me. And you've done it before. French laundry. You know, it was a big

01:08:18.380 scandal. This was the picture. That's Gavin Newsom and Magic Johnson. So people were mad and he was

01:08:26.620 called up for his hypocrisy and he tried to handle it with the following soundbite. Listen, I was very

01:08:33.000 judicious yesterday. Very judicious. And you'll see the photo that I did take where Magic was kind

01:08:40.560 enough, generous enough to ask me for a photograph. And in my left hand's the mask and I took a photo.

01:08:46.580 Rest of the time I wore it, as we all should. Not when I had a glass of water or a thing. And I

01:08:54.860 encourage everybody else to do so. And that's it. Oh, my God. That that has to go down in the

01:09:00.520 annals of the most obvious lie ever. It's amazing. It's such an obvious lie. It's spectacular in every

01:09:05.780 way. I love that soundbite. So Phil Houston, I have to have Phil Houston, the guy who authored

01:09:10.260 Spy the Lie. And he was the CIA deception detection guy for 25 years. He literally wrote the books,

01:09:17.400 Spy the Lie. And he talks about how so that placeholder the rest of the time I was wearing it,

01:09:21.620 you know, not not when I had a glass of water or the rest of it. That's a liar. That's a liar who

01:09:28.040 knows he may have been caught on camera not wearing the mask. And he's trying to do a little cover like

01:09:32.120 an advanced cover. That's what liars do. If he actually had the mask on the whole time, he would

01:09:36.080 have said the rest of the time I had it on, period. The nervous laughter, the attempt to do too much

01:09:41.980 detail. It was in my left hand, as you can see, like liar, liar, liar. And now we know he's a liar

01:09:46.740 because the magic of cameras has brought us multiple images of him without the mask on.

01:09:53.320 OK, so the first one is hold on a second. Is it a picture, Debbie, or is it a is it a video? I can't

01:09:59.780 remember. It's video of him going over to Magic Johnson without the mask on. Look, no mask, no mask,

01:10:05.620 no mask. OK, there it is. He did not have the mask on. It was not like he met magic and then magic

01:10:10.860 said, take let's take a picture. And then he took it off as he lied about yesterday. He lied.

01:10:15.620 OK, and then Clay Travis tweeted this out today. There he is sitting in the box. It looks like he's

01:10:21.540 next to Tom Hanks. Look as they zoom in. Not only does he not wear his mask, Tom Hanks or whoever's

01:10:25.460 next to him doesn't have it. And nobody in the box seems to have it. Look, nobody's got a mask.

01:10:29.540 Look at him. All smiles. The mask is off his face. Can we zoom in again? Can you play that again?

01:10:33.740 I want the audience to see it again. People who are listening to this, watch it on YouTube later.

01:10:37.380 You'll see you're zooming, zooming, zooming. He's sitting in the box.

01:10:41.700 No one in his box has their mask on. Nobody. It's off. OK,

01:10:44.980 maybe he considers that outside. I have no idea. But at this very same stadium

01:10:48.160 at the Super Bowl, they're mandating KN95 masks for every single person in the stadium because

01:10:52.780 that's what's safe. So who would like to take it from here? Because it's too fun.

01:10:58.380 I mean, I didn't realize in this legislation, is there an asterisk for like taking pictures?

01:11:05.260 Yeah. We need to ask. If you're a star.

01:11:08.160 Right. To quote Trump, if you're a star, they let you do it and get away with it.

01:11:12.600 If you're approached by celebrities to take a picture, you can take the mask off. I didn't

01:11:16.260 realize. I mean, he must be like the slowest learner ever because he is a he's really learned

01:11:21.280 this lesson the hard way at every turn in the road. He's such a liar. And by the way, it wasn't

01:11:26.680 just him. Los Angeles Mayor Garcetti. He was there also maskless. I mean, on it goes, Emily. And yet

01:11:34.020 they still want my kids to sit in school all day long. And more accurately, the kids of California.

01:11:40.780 Look at him. Look, there is another picture. That's Garcetti. But it's sitting there all day

01:11:46.020 long with masks on their faces inside. Yeah. And I mean, even in that game, like little kids who

01:11:51.120 might have had great memories of that game are now going to have been masked up while Gavin Newsom

01:11:55.840 and Eric Garcetti and London Breed were maskless in their luxury box. And I think to Eliana's

01:12:01.200 point about Gavin Newsom, like it's it's inexplicable and sort of maddening in a sense

01:12:05.920 after the French laundry situation that we are now here and it's happening again. But I just think it

01:12:10.300 speaks to how utterly shameless he is. He knows that he's lying. He doesn't care that he's lying. He

01:12:14.700 genuinely thinks he is better and that the sort of masses, the unwashed masses, they must be

01:12:20.740 saddled with the burden of masks because they're the ones who can't be trusted to live their lives

01:12:25.680 responsibly and hygienically. But Gavin Newsom, he can do it. He's the governor. So it's fine.

01:12:31.480 And my favorite thing about his non-apology and his statement was he was he was literally like,

01:12:37.080 no, no, no, no. The problem is not with Gavin Newsom. Gavin Newsom is actually very, very judicious.

01:12:41.680 The problem, if anything, is that Gavin Newsom is too great. Yes, yes. It's so true. We have to hear it

01:12:48.060 again. Can you guys play the Gavin Newsom soundbite number four again? I must have another relationship

01:12:52.280 with it. I was very judicious yesterday, very judicious. And you'll see the photo that I did

01:12:59.320 take where Magic was kind enough, generous enough to ask me for a photograph. And in my left hand's

01:13:06.580 a mask and I took a photo. The rest of the time I wore it, as we all should. Not when I had a glass of

01:13:14.800 water or a thing. And I encourage everybody else to do so. And that's it.

01:13:21.980 Unnailed it again. Pretty sure he wasn't drinking water either. Yeah.

01:13:26.760 Yeah. By God, Californians, take your masks off. Your leaders are mocking you. They think you're

01:13:35.200 stupid. This is outrageous. And by the way, how about that Super Bowl thing? Can you imagine paying all

01:13:41.500 that money to go out to the Super Bowl? I mean, it's not cheap to get tickets for the Super Bowl.

01:13:45.440 And it's a dream come true for most people. And to be told because at first it was like,

01:13:49.900 we're going to give everybody a can ninety five mask and we really hope you'll wear them. Now it's

01:13:54.220 been made clear. You must wear them. They all have to wear the can ninety five can ninety five mask.

01:13:59.180 Your kids two years old. They have to have it on if they want to sit there in this.

01:14:03.340 What I gather is an indoor slash outdoor stadium to watch the Super Bowl.

01:14:08.140 It's insane. It's it's unthinkable. And it is that Gavin Newsom. You're right, Megan. He's

01:14:13.940 mocking the people of California at this point who have made so many sacrifices. Kids,

01:14:18.400 the sacrifices to kids learning, not just the discomfort of wearing it in school,

01:14:22.540 but the actual like demonstrable effect that being masked in a school contributes to people's

01:14:29.180 learning, especially at younger ages. It's insane. I mean, it's completely beyond. I mean,

01:14:34.500 it is Marie Antoinette. It's all of that. And yet there seems to be absolutely no talking sense into

01:14:40.480 Gavin Newsom because of the utter shamelessness. He doesn't care. And if this was so important and

01:14:45.680 if covid was so dangerous, he would be wearing a mask, of course, because if Gavin Newsom is anything,

01:14:50.620 it is self-interested. And we know that that's not the case because we can see it.

01:14:54.860 I if I were if I had a kid in a California school right now, Eliana, I'd say here is a bottle of

01:15:00.220 water. I want you to walk around with this water all day in your mask off. And as soon as you get

01:15:04.200 in trouble, you can tell your teacher or whoever bothers you. No, no, I'm very judicious. You know,

01:15:09.220 I always have my mask on just, you know, just when I have a little water and all that.

01:15:12.880 Yeah, I like your style, Megan. And a nuisance comment was amazing when he said I like magic was

01:15:18.580 kind enough to to essentially recognize my greatness and ask me for a photograph.

01:15:23.760 Yes. Just amazing. So gross. I'm so over him. And Jen Psaki is somebody who a lot of people may

01:15:31.660 be feeling that way about as well. Talk about tone deaf. She went on Pod Save America, which is a

01:15:38.060 left wing podcast, very successful with a bunch of Obama top aides, former Obama aides. And so she

01:15:44.820 went on there and mocked Judge Jeanine Pirro of Fox News for being in Psaki's view, apparently too focused

01:15:53.180 on crime. Like it's an absurdity. So she just plucked crime out of the ether as a relevant story.

01:16:00.280 Like, can you believe people are listening to this as if crime isn't actually a massive national story

01:16:06.100 right now? Here's what Jen Psaki said. If you look at Fox on a daily basis, I mean, do you remember the

01:16:11.460 four boxes that you had that we had on all the TVs, right, which is on my TV right now? So right now,

01:16:17.180 just to give you a sense. So CNN Pentagon, as many as 8500 U.S. troops on heightened alert. Okay,

01:16:22.380 true. Same on MSNBC. CNBC is doing their own thing about the market. And then on Fox is Jeanine

01:16:29.620 Pirro talking about soft on crime consequences. I mean, what does that even mean? Right. So there's

01:16:36.440 an alternate universe on some coverage. What's scary about it is a lot of people watch that.

01:16:43.020 Wow. Just a few stats. At least 16 major cities across America broke a record for homicides in

01:16:48.620 2021. 24 police officers across the nation were shot just in the month of January. There's been

01:16:54.140 a 510 percent nationwide spiking carjackings over the last year. We've had left leaning soft on crime

01:17:00.820 DAs elected in several of our major cities from L.A. to San Francisco to Chicago to New York and beyond

01:17:06.060 who are absolutely reversing written laws on the book, making felonies into misdemeanors,

01:17:10.400 choosing not to prosecute crimes like resisting arrest and certain armed robberies or armed

01:17:14.740 burglaries. I could go on. Just in New York this past month, two people were pushed onto

01:17:19.100 the subway tracks with oncoming trains coming. One was killed. One had nonfatal injuries. And,

01:17:24.960 you know, we could keep going. What is she? What is she doing? Eliana, what is she?

01:17:30.300 Talk about ignore the gambling going on in the casino, right? Don't pay any attention to your eyes.

01:17:35.200 Well, that's a real foot in mouth moment that Republicans are going to be putting in ads

01:17:42.000 ahead of the November 2022 midterms. What's amazing is that the Biden administration is aware of this

01:17:48.480 problem, which is a real political liability for them. It is why Joe Biden, ahead of the 2020 election,

01:17:55.180 said, I do not favor defunding the police. It is why Merrick Garland, not a week ago,

01:18:00.220 was talking about steps the Biden administration is taking to tackle the rise in crime. And I think

01:18:10.140 if the Democrats were smart, Joe Biden would run on a platform of what he's doing to tackle this

01:18:17.480 problems. You can be you can be certain Republicans are going to be running on it and talking about it

01:18:23.080 in the coming months. And that that sake clip will not be going away. You know what he's he's trying to

01:18:30.220 tackle crime. He's trying to tackle, quote, gun crime. That's what the White House's response to

01:18:35.640 all of this has been. It's about the guns. And if you look at his initiatives, it's all about like

01:18:40.620 how we can roll back on guns. I want to combat gun crimes with a comprehensive strategy. These murders

01:18:48.060 of these cops, these carjackings, this is about way more than too easy access to guns. You could make

01:18:56.600 a strong argument. It has nothing to do with the too easy access to guns, but it has to do with soft on

01:19:02.800 crime DAs and a couple of years of very negative coverage about police in the mainstream media and so

01:19:10.020 on, and a media that's still devoted to covering up critical details about certain crimes. I mean, just

01:19:15.460 last week when those two cops in New York were killed in Harlem, those two those two police officers,

01:19:22.560 22 and 26 years old, the the MSM, the New York Times covered it and talked about the suspect who

01:19:27.700 also was killed by a third cop who was there. They did not mention anything about the guy's long

01:19:32.000 criminal record. Right. They don't talk about this is a career criminal who did this. We have criminals

01:19:37.000 who we let out with a slap on the wrist with no new no bail policies that don't protect the people

01:19:43.020 in Chicago. The sheriff out there says he's got 100 accused murderers sitting at home right now

01:19:49.720 awaiting trial with just a little anklet on to ensure public safety. None of that ever gets

01:19:54.800 mentioned, Emily. It's all about the guns. Well, and this is why all of this is happening in deep

01:19:59.080 blue cities, because they have no answer to crimes. And that's the democratic policies, the democratic

01:20:03.700 platform and the liberal ideology that informs those policies and platforms has absolutely no

01:20:09.160 answer. They use guns as their scapegoat, but they cannot grapple with any of the sort of roots of

01:20:14.380 the problem because in a way their ideology fuels and worsens them. But that's why you see this. And

01:20:19.660 it gets even more disgusting when you realize Jen Psaki is sitting in Washington, D.C. I don't think

01:20:24.740 she lives in Washington, D.C. I'm pretty sure she lives out in the suburb in Arlington. But Washington,

01:20:29.000 D.C. is one of those cities. I'm here right now where crime is spiking, particularly violent crimes

01:20:34.560 like carjackings, as you mentioned, Megan. And she's sitting there and she can't even talk about it.

01:20:39.320 It reminds me of one of a tweet, a tweet that I have saved for years that I use with all of my

01:20:44.520 journalism students. It's a great one from Judd Legum. It was in 2017. He has all four squares of

01:20:51.060 what's happening on every single cable network, cable news network. He has MSNBC, CNN and Fox. So

01:20:56.580 he says MSNBC is talking about Russia, CNN, Russia, Fox. Hey, how's that weather we're having? And it was a

01:21:05.220 man reporting on tornadoes that were sweeping through Oklahoma and the Midwest. Like they are

01:21:10.100 so out of touch that that's why this continues to happen year after year after year. They have no

01:21:14.920 idea how crime is affecting people in their own cities less than a mile from where they're sitting

01:21:19.700 when they give these ridiculous interviews. They're completely, completely divorced from the

01:21:24.960 reality that the country's much of the country is experiencing. It's so true. And I mean, just like

01:21:30.740 during the Trump administration, they want the focus back on Russia. She can't understand why.

01:21:35.000 Why isn't Fox News talking about Russia? By the way, Jen Psaki, that wouldn't go much better for

01:21:39.160 you either. You don't look particularly good in that situation either. At least your boss doesn't.

01:21:43.700 Right. It's like yet another. All right. Let's go up north of the border here to Canada and the

01:21:48.760 Canada's version of Gavin Newsom. Isn't he? Are they the same person? That's perfect. Seriously.

01:21:53.600 Is Justin Trudeau actually Gavin Newsom? They might be the same man, like attractive,

01:22:01.020 right? Like pleasant to look at. And then until they start speaking. So Justin Trudeau,

01:22:07.440 rather than meet with the truckers who have come some 50,000 of them, according to what I read,

01:22:14.200 to sort of make their point that they're against these vaccine mandates that don't let them deliver

01:22:17.600 goods across the Canadian U.S. border, has tucked tail and run and has refused to meet with them.

01:22:25.040 It's, I guess, not particularly surprising, Eliana, but this we have played a soundbite of

01:22:30.320 him yesterday saying he won't meet with them because he objects to their to their offensive

01:22:36.020 views, their their offensive viewpoints. So he can't speak to them.

01:22:40.760 Much like Newsom, he's expressing contempt for them. But what amazed me in in sort of digging into

01:22:47.540 this was that the truck drivers who are protesting a vaccine mandate requiring them to be vaccinated if

01:22:55.340 they're going to cross from the U.S. into Canada, they have the same vaccination rate as the rest of

01:23:00.600 Canada, which is 90 percent. So it is amazing to me. We're talking about a mandate targeting an

01:23:06.980 incredibly small group of people here. And I just can't imagine that the public health

01:23:12.300 impact of this policy outweighs the repercussions that we're seeing across Canada right now.

01:23:18.760 Listen to what he said, Emily. This is him, Trudeau, on camera talking about

01:23:23.720 certain protests and rallies he just loves. This is Soundbite 7.

01:23:28.760 I have attended protests and rallies in the past when I agreed with the goals, when I supported the people

01:23:36.580 expressing their concerns and their issues. Black Lives Matter is an excellent example of that.

01:23:42.300 But I have also chosen to not go anywhere near protests that have expressed hateful rhetoric,

01:23:49.820 violence towards fellow citizens.

01:23:52.380 Where do you begin?

01:23:53.240 Because there was no protests he agrees with. Yeah.

01:23:55.100 Yeah. There was definitely no hateful rhetoric at any BLM rally ever.

01:23:58.460 That in and of itself is hateful rhetoric. I mean, it is dismissing people who disagree with you as

01:24:03.120 bigots. It's a form of bigotry when you talk like that. And this is a problem the left consistently

01:24:07.980 runs into is that they cannot get over this one huge hurdle that the people who disagree with them

01:24:13.560 on vaccinations, on masks are not bigots. They think they're awful, unhygienic, the unwashed masses

01:24:21.800 who are ignorant. And you could go down the line. They have a million different insults for them and

01:24:27.960 different, like deeply held beliefs. And if you can't get past that, you end up in these pickles

01:24:32.520 like Justin Trudeau and Gavin Newsom, who are very, very judicious, but not quite judicious enough

01:24:37.940 to understand the actual situation at hand because they can't even dispense with their very important

01:24:45.020 biases and prejudices to see the reality of what's happening.

01:24:49.020 Mm hmm. All right. While we make our way around the world, we went to the southwest in California.

01:24:54.140 We went north to Canada. And now I would like to take us over to the UK where news was made today

01:25:00.280 by Victoria and David Beckham. Now, I don't know if you ladies saw this, but I will get you up to speed

01:25:05.960 just in case you didn't. David Beckham, they seem to have a very sweet relationship, by the way.

01:25:11.040 It's nice to see these like super mega successful, very rich people still be able to like have fun.

01:25:15.840 Um, he tweeted, he gave her like some note in her lunchbox not long ago that said something like

01:25:21.340 come home in a better mood signed. Don't be such an asshole. And she tweeted it out, which I thought

01:25:28.280 I'm like, that's good. I like these two. But shocking fact about Victoria Beckham, according to David

01:25:34.320 Beckham, she has eaten the same food every day for 25 years and has only tried something

01:25:45.780 else. One time when she was pregnant with their child Harper. Quote, this is David. The only time

01:25:55.300 she's even she's ever shared something on my plate was when she was pregnant with Harper.

01:26:00.720 And it was the most amazing thing. It was the most amazing thing. So what does she have?

01:26:09.360 She eats grilled fish and steamed vegetables. And that's it. It explains so much about that tiny

01:26:21.260 body. I couldn't do it. It all makes sense now. It all makes sense now.

01:26:27.520 But it seems like it also might be the secret to their long, happy marriage and that he doesn't

01:26:31.880 have to get upset with her for stealing things off his plate, which can actually cause a lot of

01:26:35.540 friction. No, he enjoyed it. Listen to him. It was the most amazing thing that time when she actually

01:26:42.180 tried food off of his his plate. Now, the Daily Mail tells me that she has, quote, previously admitted

01:26:50.720 admitted that she will not eat food cooked in oil, butter or sauces. She does not eat red meat.

01:26:59.100 She does not eat dairy. And apparently her comfort food is. Are you ready? You're not going to believe

01:27:07.360 this. Her comfort food is one piece of whole grain toast with salt, with salt on it.

01:27:19.240 Megan, we got to send her. We got to send Posh and Tom Brady out for like a binge.

01:27:25.960 This would be a good reality show. I was going to say, I would watch that. Yes.

01:27:32.020 This would be awesome to die. She's going to be like 150 years old because she has the perfect

01:27:36.440 diet or she'll die like tomorrow. It's no because our ancestors, you know, they didn't eat as much

01:27:41.320 as we do. No, but it's crazy. And by the way, when she splurges for her birthday, guess what she has

01:27:46.380 is a piece of fruitcake, fruitcake. I like this is why she always looks so unhappy in all of her

01:27:54.160 photos. I was going to say it was probably the best day of his life when she ate off his plate.

01:27:59.240 She was like in a good mood for 45 minutes after, you know, I'm amazed. She would imagine the smile

01:28:07.220 we'd get if somebody introduced her to the glories of a cheeseburger pizza. Yeah. Come on. Come on.

01:28:13.020 It's like it's insulting. You live in the time when there's all this variety of food and it's as best

01:28:18.060 as it's ever tasted. It might not be great for you, but just live a little. No, I don't know. I

01:28:22.880 guess it's like this is why we don't look like Victoria Beckham. And you know what? I'm okay with

01:28:28.360 that. Ladies, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you. Don't forget later this week,

01:28:34.800 Jason Whitlock's going to be back with the program. Love him. In the meantime, download the show on Apple

01:28:39.700 or elsewhere and youtube.com slash Megan Kelly to watch it. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly

01:28:46.680 show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - February 01, 2022

Whoopi's Crazy Holocaust Comments and the Value of Regret, with Emily Jashinsky, Eliana Johnson, and Daniel Pink ｜ Ep. 252

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