The Megyn Kelly Show - June 19, 2026


Would-Be Reagan Assassin John Hinckley Jr. on Trump Assassination Attempts, Jodie Foster Obsession, and His Life Now ｜ Ep. 1343


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 17 minutes

Words per minute

158.47

Word count

12,225

Sentence count

641

Harmful content

Misogyny

7

sentences flagged

Toxicity

7

sentences flagged

Hate speech

4

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:01:23.120 Today on The Megyn Kelly Show.
00:01:26.000 There's been such a negative image of me for like 45 years.
00:01:30.840 Megyn, I'm just a totally different person from the person I was in 1981.
00:01:35.960 Mr. President!
00:01:37.320 Shots were fired at President Reagan as he was coming out of the Washington Hilton Hotel this afternoon.
00:01:42.620 Details are very sketchy at this moment.
00:01:45.140 There it is.
00:01:46.060 He was wounded.
00:01:47.720 God!
00:01:48.700 The man in custody, John W. Hinckley Jr.
00:01:51.660 I just had a really dark heart.
00:01:53.700 An obsessive infatuation for a young actress.
00:01:56.600 I thought I had a real relationship with Jodie.
00:01:59.080 Get me out of here, all right?
00:02:00.560 The obsession really started after I saw a taxi driver.
00:02:03.980 De Niro was trying to impress this woman.
00:02:06.400 Are you talking to me?
00:02:07.600 I thought I was shooting the president of Jodie.
00:02:09.680 He would be so impressed.
00:02:11.020 I liked Reagan.
00:02:12.400 I thought he was a nice guy.
00:02:14.440 Polls show that some 19% of, in particular, young people on the left think it's appropriate.
00:02:20.240 Did you ever think you'd live to see the day?
00:02:22.360 How does that kid wind up shooting the president?
00:02:25.080 Did you feel like a celebrity?
00:02:26.680 Why was Dead Bundy writing orders?
00:02:28.380 Jodie Foster, does she have anything to worry about now?
00:02:30.980 You forgive John Hintley?
00:02:32.580 Yes.
00:02:33.340 Did you ever have the chance to apologize to any of the four men?
00:02:36.720 I actually still have people who go online and they say,
00:02:40.960 John, we need you again. You better do it again.
00:02:45.500 Hey, everyone. I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show.
00:02:48.480 Today, we are joined by a man whose name most Americans know, John Hinckley Jr.
00:02:54.920 He was only 25 years old on March 30th, 1981, when he attempted to assassinate the President
00:03:01.640 of the United States, Ronald Reagan.
00:03:04.060 As the President's limousine zoomed off, police pinned a suspect against the stone wall of
00:03:08.560 the hotel.
00:03:09.440 Authorities say John Hinckley attempted to kill President Reagan in order to get the
00:03:13.580 attention of actress Jodie Foster.
00:03:15.780 Both federal and local authorities say the letter allegedly written by Hinckley also contained a sentence reading,
00:03:22.520 I will probably die for what I am about to do.
00:03:25.600 Following a widely publicized trial, Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity.
00:03:31.220 However long he stays in custody, he is to be hospitalized.
00:03:34.660 He will be quickly committed as a patient at St. Elizabeth's Federal Mental Hospital in Washington.
00:03:39.220 I think it's a real unlikely situation that he would be out on the loose in any reasonable period of time.
00:03:47.260 He spent over 34 years in psychiatric confinement until 2016 when he was given a conditional release and a full release later in 2022.
00:03:58.380 Hello, everybody. This is another one of my original songs.
00:04:02.460 He now lives in the Williamsburg, Virginia area where he spends time on his music and his art.
00:04:07.180 Hinkley recently spoke out after the assassination attempt of President Donald Trump at the White
00:04:18.800 House Correspondents' Dinner this spring, which took place at the hotel dubbed by many
00:04:24.220 the Hinkley Hilton. Joining me now, John Hinkley Jr., musician, author of the memoir
00:04:30.480 John Hinckley Jr., who I really am, and attempted assassin of President Reagan.
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00:06:08.000 john thank you for being here i'm megan how are you i'm doing okay how you doing i'm doing good
00:06:14.620 all right so it's a remarkable story and i you caught our eye because you were speaking out
00:06:22.160 about the most recent assassination attempt on the current sitting president and as you and i
00:06:29.520 are sitting down together the news is just breaking that they have now rescheduled that
00:06:35.080 White House Correspondents Dinner. The president had said, we have to do it. We can't give up on
00:06:39.660 it. We can't say it's just off because of this terrible event. And now we get news that it's
00:06:45.180 going to be held this time at the Waldorf Astoria. So they've changed the venue, but they are going
00:06:51.460 forward with it in the summer months in July. What do you make of that? I guess I'm glad it's
00:06:57.300 not at the Hilton because I don't think it's a very safe place to hold events like that.
00:07:03.100 I mean, the Waldorf Astoria doesn't sound too much safer to me, but hopefully things will go well.
00:07:09.720 Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know of what you speak.
00:07:13.360 Is it from your personal experience that you draw that conclusion?
00:07:17.920 I mean, it's a massive, the Washington Hilton is a massive hotel.
00:07:23.820 And, you know, it's just not safe to have so many people milling around and kind of unmonitored.
00:07:32.100 unmonitored. So the Waldorf Astoria, I'm sure they'll have tighter security, but it's interesting
00:07:39.020 that they're rescheduled so fast. What was your reaction, John, when you saw that another would-be
00:07:46.860 gunman stormed the same hotel where you committed your act all those years ago? I guess, you know,
00:07:54.880 this is like the third or fourth attempt
00:07:57.200 against President Trump
00:07:59.300 and
00:08:00.660 it's just
00:08:03.280 I just can't believe this is going on
00:08:05.260 because there's so much violence
00:08:07.160 in America right now
00:08:08.580 and it's hard to watch the news
00:08:10.920 because every time you turn on the news
00:08:13.460 there's this
00:08:14.420 all this carnage going on
00:08:16.820 so
00:08:17.120 I just you know after the first assassination
00:08:21.000 attempt on Trump
00:08:22.860 I think I posted on X that violence is not the way to go.
00:08:27.820 And that's still what I believe.
00:08:30.060 Mm hmm. I mean, is that something like describe your journey to to that point,
00:08:36.700 you know, from that point in 1981 outside of the Hilton to that tweet?
00:08:42.420 Well, I'm just Megan, I'm just a totally different person from the person I was in 1981.
00:08:47.220 Totally different. And that's why I wrote the book actually was.
00:08:51.300 to show the public the way that I really am now.
00:08:56.180 There's been such a negative image of me
00:08:58.320 for like 45 years.
00:09:01.820 And people think that I'm the way that I was back then.
00:09:04.940 So I hope if they read the book,
00:09:07.320 there's also a documentary out there that I participated in.
00:09:10.380 It's a pretty big delusion to think you can shoot the president
00:09:13.400 to impress somebody.
00:09:14.900 If they'll watch the documentary,
00:09:16.860 they'll see that I'm not the person that I was back then at all.
00:09:20.200 I'm a totally changed man.
00:09:23.140 And you're against violence now?
00:09:26.000 Very much so.
00:09:28.460 Did you learn that, John?
00:09:30.320 Did you have to learn that?
00:09:31.480 Or was that something that came to you as a result of the psychiatric care?
00:09:37.280 Like one day it just sort of became obvious to you.
00:09:40.040 Well, it wasn't just one day.
00:09:41.380 I mean, to overcoming my mental illness that I had in 1981,
00:09:46.640 I just had a really dark heart in 1981.
00:09:51.360 I was, you know, thinking of violent things.
00:09:55.100 And when I came out of my mental illness over the years, I just saw the violence, you know, as I said, it's not the way to go.
00:10:04.780 And it took some time to come to that belief.
00:10:09.560 Was your diagnosis schizophrenia?
00:10:14.980 Amongst others.
00:10:15.780 I mean, it was, I think, I think officially for a while it was called atypical psychosis.
00:10:21.520 So it wasn't really schizophrenia.
00:10:23.860 It was kind of an odd term called atypical psychosis plus depression.
00:10:32.180 And that was managed with medication and what, psychotherapy as well over all those years?
00:10:38.800 Yes.
00:10:40.400 Wow.
00:10:41.440 I want to get to, of course, your backstory and your journey in more detail in a minute,
00:10:45.460 But I'm just going to stay on Trump for a minute just to kick it off.
00:10:48.800 Yeah, when you saw the the Butler assassination attempt, which, you know, it the president was hit.
00:10:55.920 Thank God it was just his ear. And of course, we saw Corey Compertori die and we saw two others hit.
00:11:02.440 And and, you know, this is this was somewhat similar to when when you committed your act at the at the Hilton all those years earlier.
00:11:11.940 Thank God no one died that day, but multiple people were hit.
00:11:17.080 Did your jaw drop?
00:11:18.760 Was it especially stunning to you?
00:11:21.800 It was.
00:11:23.020 I had a friend text me and say, turn on the television.
00:11:28.480 So I turned on the television and I saw what was going on.
00:11:31.700 I couldn't believe it because I may be mistaken, but I think that was the first assassination attempt since mine.
00:11:40.120 back in 1981 i mean i may not be right about that but it's the first one that i remember
00:11:46.660 since 1981 so yeah i was really shocked by it certainly the first one that was so public
00:11:53.020 right and you know actually we saw bullets flying at the president was very very jarring um i know
00:12:00.360 that you you something disturbing happened to you after president trump won re-election in 2024
00:12:08.980 People started to reach out to you online with various messaging, and at first you weren't sure what it was they were asking, and then when it became clear, you were especially horrified.
00:12:20.020 Can you tell us about it?
00:12:22.180 I had and actually still have people who go online, go on my ex-account, and they say, John, we need you again.
00:12:32.880 You got to do it again, things like that.
00:12:35.840 of course i don't think i don't think that's funny so um i think i put another comment out
00:12:42.500 you know please please stop with all the negative comments um they're not funny
00:12:48.100 do you think these people are serious i wouldn't know i don't i mean i don't know who they are
00:12:54.940 i mean isn't it shocking like i feel like i i don't know you tell me in 1981 you were suffering
00:13:03.340 with a psychiatric disorder, with mental illness,
00:13:06.380 and that's what led you to do what you did.
00:13:07.880 So found a jury shortly thereafter.
00:13:11.460 But today, political violence is growing in popularity.
00:13:18.000 Bizarrely, the polls show that some 19% of,
00:13:21.200 in particular, young people on the left
00:13:23.100 think it's appropriate in various circumstances.
00:13:26.380 Did you ever think you'd live to see the day?
00:13:28.340 No, that's terrible.
00:13:29.320 I've never heard that statistic, but...
00:13:31.880 Yeah, I mean, political violence is growing, unfortunately. We just we can't seem to argue about things without turning to violence. That's just a shame.
00:13:48.000 What do you want those people to know who are thinking about that as an OK option?
00:13:52.060 don't resort to violence that's all i can say is you know i mean i'm sure they got a lot of
00:13:58.280 things going on in their life like i had going on in my life back in 1981 so i don't know you
00:14:06.060 know it's hard to talk people out of doing what they want to do but uh i'm just here to tell you
00:14:12.340 it's it's violence as i said violence is not the way to go john have you ever heard the term
00:14:18.840 erotomaniac? Not really. Okay. Because when I read up on your story,
00:14:26.800 I wondered whether that was a term that applied to you, because what I've been told is that's
00:14:32.500 somebody who can think that he's in a real relationship with someone, even though the
00:14:39.960 two people have never met, the sort of focus, the person who is the center of his focus
00:14:46.320 doesn't know him at all and yet the man thinks that they're in love or going to be together and
00:14:52.480 you know maybe even have had experiences together that they haven't had does that sound like the
00:14:57.720 affliction that you were suffering under when you became obsessed with Jodie Foster and wound up
00:15:03.120 shooting the president in order to gain her attention it sounds very very much like what
00:15:08.460 I was going through it I thought I had back in 81 and 80 and 79 78 I thought I had a real
00:15:14.840 relationship with jody and then by shooting the president i would have this like magical
00:15:20.220 union with her and she would be so impressed and all these things
00:15:24.640 so i guess i guess if that's i guess that's the definition of erotomania but um
00:15:31.420 yeah i thought i had a real relationship with her which of course was not the case
00:15:36.720 how did that start just psychosis i i was in the late 70s i was developing delusions about her
00:15:47.620 and that was just part of my illness and did you believe that you were in a relationship with her
00:15:55.980 yes i did you did so how how i this you may not be able to answer this but like how could you
00:16:02.840 believe that you know when you didn't know her and she wouldn't respond to your letters and
00:16:07.500 never spend time with it rationalize it now because it's it's it's it's a delusion so i
00:16:14.220 can't say how i did it just how i did it was just being delusional and thinking i was in an actual
00:16:21.080 relationship with her when of course i wasn't hmm so it wasn't i know it was like the movie
00:16:28.340 taxi driver that people said drove you to actually do what you did she starred in it
00:16:33.860 um was it the movie taxi driver or had the obsession been around pre you know pre that movie
00:16:40.740 i knew about her um before taxi driver just just seeing her in a couple of things on tv i guess
00:16:49.540 mom says my teeth will fall out if i keep eating sweets
00:16:56.960 And aren't greasy things bad for your stomach? 1.00
00:16:58.540 I saw from advertising that she was going to be in this movie called Taxi Driver.
00:17:04.320 So I went to see the movie because I knew that she was going to be in it.
00:17:09.300 And the obsession really started after I saw Taxi Driver a number of times.
00:17:16.000 That was 1976.
00:17:18.700 So I had the obsession from 76 till 81, you know, when I committed my crime.
00:17:26.360 Mm-hmm. And then she got into Yale. And I understand you just went down to the registrar
00:17:32.520 at Yale. And did they tell you what dorm she was in? Like, did they facilitate your finding her?
00:17:39.860 I just went there and said, I'm looking for a friend who's a student here,
00:17:46.380 but I don't know which dorm she's in. Do you all have a registration book or something?
00:17:51.080 And she gave me this book that I looked through and found her name.
00:17:56.780 I mean, her real name is Alicia Christian Foster.
00:18:03.500 And that's what I found her under, that name in the registration book.
00:18:08.760 It said what dorm she was in, what her phone number was, everything.
00:18:14.620 Oh, my gosh.
00:18:15.740 I can't believe how easy it was.
00:18:17.780 That's disturbing.
00:18:19.060 Yeah.
00:18:19.460 Yeah, I agree.
00:18:21.200 And then you did go to her dorm room, as I understand it, a couple of times.
00:18:25.780 You slipped some notes there, and you were calling her.
00:18:28.980 You did make audio contact with her.
00:18:32.040 She didn't accept the calls willingly.
00:18:33.960 She didn't know it was you.
00:18:34.940 But you did manage to actually call her, yes?
00:18:38.260 I talked to her several times on the phone, and I taped the phone calls, which were later played at my trial.
00:18:46.740 No, do you have audio?
00:18:48.280 Mm-hmm.
00:18:49.460 I talked to Jody several times on the phone.
00:19:14.420 She knew me by name because
00:19:16.560 the notes that I would leave under her door,
00:19:20.000 I would put my name on them.
00:19:21.700 You understand why I can't, you know,
00:19:23.360 carry out these conversations with people I don't know.
00:19:25.260 You understand that it's dangerous and it's just not done.
00:19:27.840 It's not fair. It's rude.
00:19:29.540 All right?
00:19:31.620 I wasn't doing it anonymously.
00:19:33.920 I was putting my name on them.
00:19:35.780 So when I talked to her on the phone,
00:19:39.300 she knew very well who I was.
00:19:41.100 When you heard her pick up,
00:19:43.700 when you actually had contact with her,
00:19:45.540 do you remember was that different from the delusions in your mind
00:19:50.320 no it just uh i could i mean i couldn't believe i was actually talking to jody
00:19:57.260 after he just watched her on the screen for so long i was actually talking having a conversation
00:20:03.060 with her so you know i was having to kind of pinch myself because i couldn't believe it
00:20:07.720 but it was still a part of the delusion i had going on with her
00:20:11.540 mm-hmm and could you tell that she was scared well she wasn't really scared on the phone calls
00:20:18.920 but she was saying you know i can't really be talking to strangers on the phone um and i you
00:20:26.520 know i think i said something like well i promise you know i assure you i'm not dangerous
00:20:31.520 and she said well i still can't be talking to strangers on the phone i had about three or four
00:20:37.180 conversations with her on the phone did you ever think that maybe she likes in the years since
00:20:43.320 maybe she was scared and she was just playing it cool well i mean this was pre you know this
00:20:49.320 is pre-assassination attempt so i'm not sure how scared she was i think she was just saying it was
00:20:54.240 just another fan you know calling her up uh maybe she was scared i don't know but she didn't she
00:21:01.440 didn't have she didn't sound scared on the phone and then at one point you confronted her face to
00:21:07.060 face or not confronted but you saw her face to face i was walking past her dorm one sunday
00:21:13.540 morning i believe it was and she was in front of her building exercising and i i approached her
00:21:22.020 and i knew it was jody but i was kind of taking it back because she was you know like shorter than
00:21:28.840 i thought she was and her hair was pulled back but i knew it was jody but i i was
00:21:34.880 i didn't know what to say um i should have introduced myself but i didn't know what to say
00:21:40.960 so i asked a stupid question i said please excuse me do you know where the library is which of course
00:21:47.000 is i don't know why i said something like that i was just trying to speak to her and she pointed 0.93
00:21:53.220 out to where the library was and i was on my way but i totally regret not introducing myself to her
00:22:00.680 What did that mean to you?
00:22:02.180 Do you remember to have seen her and actually had an exchange?
00:22:08.100 I mean, after I started walking away from her, I just said,
00:22:12.820 why didn't I talk to her and introduce myself and that kind of thing?
00:22:17.180 So I really regretted what I did, just being this shy fan,
00:22:22.680 asking her a dumb question like, you know where the library is.
00:22:27.260 so in your mind at this point you're still thinking if you had said something clever 0.98
00:22:32.700 something funny something charming you could have had her you know like it would have been
00:22:38.140 i think so i think so megan because at that point i still had the delusion with her
00:22:42.460 that if i just introduced myself she would have oh john yeah let's let's let's go have coffee or
00:22:49.700 something like that um that was my thinking because i was still thinking that you know i
00:22:56.060 was in this relationship with her the washington post in 1981 and the new york times same
00:23:03.540 reported that you had written dozens of poems letters and messages to her calling her dorm
00:23:10.340 room at least five times reporting that you spoke to her twice over the phone and that you tape
00:23:15.620 recorded the conversations as you said uh she was then 18 years old they report in the first phone
00:23:21.780 call, you immediately introduced yourself saying, this is the person that's been leaving notes in
00:23:26.960 your box for two days. A transcript of the call where you repeatedly said you just wanted to talk
00:23:32.500 to her reads as follows. She said, seriously, this isn't fair. Do me a favor and don't call back.
00:23:40.120 All right. You said, how about just tomorrow? She said, oh God, oh seriously, this is really
00:23:46.160 starting to bother me. Do you mind if I hang up? You said, Jody, please. She later said she received
00:23:52.800 three batches of hand-delivered letters from you in the fall of 1980 and from March 3rd to March
00:23:59.340 6th of 1981. Hearing that now, John, does that strike? I mean, to me, she sounds scared. Oh,
00:24:06.900 God, she says, oh, God, this is really starting to bother me. I agree. She sounds pretty scared,
00:24:11.980 you can see it now in retrospect I mean she's she's always been very mature but she's an 18
00:24:18.080 year old girl alone at college for the first time and some stranger sending her notes and
00:24:23.520 being way too overly familiar do you see it I see it now yeah yeah I do so when we are talking about
00:24:32.020 Jodie Foster now does that bring anything up for you do you still feel love for her like how do
00:24:38.380 you feel about her now uh i'm i'm told i'm very much over the obsession that i had with her you
00:24:45.140 know i i think of her from time to time just because uh writing the book you know there was
00:24:51.380 a lot of there's a lot of jody in the book so yeah i've had to talk about jody a lot and she's
00:24:58.100 been on my mind for that reason but um you know i can't say i have i i'm not in love with her
00:25:06.260 like I thought I was back all those years ago. And I'm sure before they let you out of the
00:25:12.020 psychiatric care facility, they wanted to make really sure that you were not still obsessed
00:25:18.740 with her. I mean, this person who you were obsessed with is still around. She's still
00:25:23.960 on this earth and in this country. And I'm sure they wanted to make sure she was not in any danger.
00:25:29.820 How did they do that, John?
00:25:32.440 Just through asking me a lot of questions and therapy.
00:25:36.340 And, you know, I was interviewed by hundreds and hundreds of doctors in my years at St. Elizabeth's Hospital.
00:25:45.300 And over the years, they came to see that I didn't have that obsession anymore and that I wasn't dangerous to her.
00:25:54.180 How many years would you say it took?
00:25:55.940 i think all through the 80s 1980s um i still had the obsession through the 80s i believe
00:26:03.100 i took it took until the in the 90s and beyond i mean i developed a real i took early on in my
00:26:12.300 stay at st elizabeth's i developed a real relationship with a patient there named
00:26:18.680 leslie devoe and uh leslie is the one who brought me out of the obsession that i had with jody
00:26:26.260 Oh, really?
00:26:27.000 So that helped?
00:26:28.260 Did you become obsessed with Leslie?
00:26:29.900 I didn't even be obsessed.
00:26:32.040 I had a real relationship with her.
00:26:33.620 We had a relationship for 22 years.
00:26:37.280 So I wouldn't call it an obsession.
00:26:39.480 It was just a deep, loving relationship.
00:26:43.340 Because I don't know if you've ever heard this,
00:26:45.560 but sometimes when someone is an erotomaniac or a stalker type,
00:26:50.680 they will have a fixation on somebody,
00:26:53.660 And then they'll have a fixation on somebody else that there's a belief by some that the way you end it is by, you know, refocusing the person on a different target.
00:27:04.520 But that that's not what happened for you.
00:27:06.280 She was your one and only obsession you ever had.
00:27:09.060 Jodi, yeah.
00:27:09.660 She was I've never been obsessed with anybody else besides Jodi.
00:27:15.600 And you were very, very obsessed.
00:27:17.640 So you, do you remember the day you started to seriously consider hurting someone in order to get her attention?
00:27:25.680 It was after seeing the movie Taxi Driver and going deeper into my depression and delusions in the late 1970s.
00:27:35.420 I got estranged from my family.
00:27:38.540 I was told, I got totally isolated.
00:27:40.660 And so I would say in the late 70s, around 1980, is when I started getting dangerous,
00:27:47.500 starting thinking dangerous thoughts.
00:27:50.900 And we should point out, what year were you born, John?
00:27:54.680 1955.
00:27:56.380 Okay, where'd you grow up?
00:27:58.960 I was born in Oklahoma, but I grew up in Dallas, Texas.
00:28:03.420 That you had a pretty normal childhood from what I read, right?
00:28:07.480 You're, I think, the youngest of three?
00:28:09.140 I'm the youngest of three. I had a normal childhood. No, no, you know, no trauma, no abuse going on. I had a loving family. So I can't, I can't blame my family at all for what happened to me.
00:28:27.440 No mental illness that you knew of or that had shown up?
00:28:31.760 No.
00:28:32.400 I mean, later on in life, my father developed depression, but not during my growing up years.
00:28:39.440 So what do you remember?
00:28:40.900 Like, what was the trigger for you?
00:28:42.460 And how did you go from this kid who seemed to do relatively fine in school?
00:28:47.040 You know, nothing remarkable either way.
00:28:49.560 Not anything extraordinarily positive nor negative.
00:28:53.520 So, like, how does that kid wind up shooting the president?
00:28:58.180 Well, I got sick. 0.53
00:28:59.360 I got mentally ill and delusional and depressed, and it wasn't an overnight thing that I got dangerous.
00:29:08.100 It was a gradual thing.
00:29:09.840 I got caught up in delusions about Jody and the theme of – I don't know if you've seen Taxi Driver, but –
00:29:19.900 I actually haven't seen Taxi Driver.
00:29:21.900 Does the guy try to shoot somebody in order to impress someone he's focused on?
00:29:26.800 Yeah, it is.
00:29:28.440 I mean, I totally could relate to Travis Bickle, who was the character in Taxi Driver that Robert De Niro was playing.
00:29:39.120 And De Niro was trying to impress this woman named Betsy, who was played by Sybil Shepard.
00:29:45.500 And Betsy was working for this presidential candidate, and Travis was going to go shoot the presidential candidate.
00:29:52.460 The idea had been growing in my brain for some time.
00:29:56.060 true force all the king's men cannot put it back together again i don't know who's weirder you or
00:30:05.440 me but in the meantime he met jody jody was playing a prostitute named iris and he met
00:30:13.060 jody this theme developed in the movie this this rescue theme of rescuing jody from her
00:30:19.400 life of prostitution she was only like 12 years old so rescuing her from this life of prostitution
00:30:25.940 And I was just totally into this character that I was seeing Travis Bickle and totally relating to that.
00:30:34.560 So that could be a big thing that further propelled me in my delusions and what I did.
00:30:43.320 And when that started, John, do you, so how old were you about then?
00:30:48.380 I was in my early, early, about 20, in 1976, I was 21.
00:30:53.600 on. Okay. Well, that tracks. I mean, that's where a lot of young men in particular have a psychotic
00:30:59.020 break. But do you remember during that time, were you still talking to your parents by phone? Were
00:31:04.260 you maintaining normal relationships in your life? Sort of. I mean, I was talking to them by phone,
00:31:11.120 yes, but I wasn't living at home. I was living in apartments by myself and getting depressed.
00:31:21.440 and I was getting isolated from my family.
00:31:26.500 I was pushing them away.
00:31:29.080 They weren't pushing me away.
00:31:30.940 I was pushing them away. 0.99
00:31:33.560 Would they have known John is mentally ill?
00:31:37.580 Around 1980, they could see that I was not doing well,
00:31:41.640 and my father referred me to a psychologist that he knew,
00:31:45.640 so I went to see the psychologist,
00:31:47.160 but the psychologist just thought I needed
00:31:50.520 like a kick in the pants to straighten up
00:31:54.720 You weren't on any medications back then
00:31:59.020 No, and then also I saw, when I was living in
00:32:02.860 Colorado in 1980, I saw a psychiatrist
00:32:07.400 that my parents found for me
00:32:10.820 and I did tell a psychiatrist about Jody
00:32:14.940 He didn't seem to be too concerned about them.
00:32:18.860 Right, because now there's a duty for a psychiatrist to warn
00:32:21.740 if he thinks a patient might actually hurt a third party.
00:32:25.800 So clearly that wasn't the case from the sound of it.
00:32:29.400 Did you, my understanding is you didn't settle on Ronald Reagan right away.
00:32:35.620 You thought about hurting some others prior to him.
00:32:39.500 Can you walk us through that? How'd that go?
00:32:41.600 Well, in 1980, Jimmy Carter was still the president, and he was campaigning, you know, for re-election.
00:32:51.000 So I started stalking Carter.
00:32:55.940 I was in Dayton, Ohio, when he was there, and I was in Nashville, Tennessee, when he was there.
00:33:02.560 Thank you, everybody.
00:33:04.300 So I was kind of following Carter around.
00:33:07.260 President Carter was in the Tennessee city conducting a town meeting at the Grand Old
00:33:12.040 Opera.
00:33:13.100 And he got within arm's reach of the president, but he didn't bring his guns with him.
00:33:15.780 He left them in the luggage.
00:33:16.740 But then when Carter lost the election, my focus, I dropped my focus on Carter and started
00:33:23.940 focusing on Reagan.
00:33:25.860 Now, I read that in October of 1980, you were arrested at the Nashville International Airport
00:33:33.680 after three pistols were discovered in your suitcase on the same day that President Carter
00:33:39.640 visited the city. My note to myself reads, how was he free? Like, how were you free? I mean,
00:33:46.660 I would think that's the kind of thing that could get you locked up for a long time, given
00:33:49.960 that the president's coming there the same day. I think today it wouldn't be what happened. But
00:33:56.960 And in 1980, I had to go before a magistrate in Nashville, and I got fined $62.50.
00:34:07.840 They took my three guns, and I got out of town as fast as I could.
00:34:14.860 Wow.
00:34:15.900 That was October 1980.
00:34:18.440 The assassination attempt with President Reagan was March 1981.
00:34:23.260 So, I mean, it was just months later.
00:34:25.600 And, you know, frankly, you should have been on their radar.
00:34:29.740 But, yeah, it was a different time.
00:34:31.640 And it's a different time today, thanks in part to you and your behaviors.
00:34:37.560 There was something involving Ted Kennedy.
00:34:39.900 Can you tell us?
00:34:42.720 I don't remember that one as well, but I think in February of 81, I went to his office at the Capitol in D.C.
00:34:53.380 Do you recall if you were thinking about attempting to assassinate Ted Kennedy?
00:34:57.720 Yeah, because only because he was a Kennedy. I had nothing for or against Ted Kennedy just because he was a Kennedy.
00:35:06.100 I mean, that's my thinking, this crazy thinking I had back then.
00:35:10.340 This is from your book, Chapter 18.
00:35:13.380 Pulling into Senator Ted Kennedy's office, I felt this was appropriate.
00:35:17.340 Two of his brothers had been murdered. It was fitting that he be next.
00:35:20.820 I went to his office. I stood outside the door, gun in hand. And then I didn't go in. I suddenly
00:35:26.920 felt nothing. It was like I was killing just to kill. I wasn't going to do that. I wasn't going 0.79
00:35:32.360 to tee off and kill someone just because they were known. This wasn't a grand enough gesture.
00:35:37.800 If I'd set out to kill the president, that's what I was going to do. Is that an accurate recitation 0.87
00:35:44.280 of how it went down that day, John? It's very, very accurate. Yes.
00:35:48.580 So, I mean, it's potentially just sheer luck that Ted Kennedy lived beyond that day.
00:35:56.440 Maybe so. Also with Carter. I mean, if Carter had been reelected, I would have stayed after him.
00:36:03.660 I just, as fate had it, you know, Carter lost and I became, you know, fixated on Reagan.
00:36:14.040 but i will faithfully execute the office of president of the united states and was there
00:36:18.820 any piece of you john who looked at president reagan and said he seems like such a nice guy
00:36:24.140 he's jolly he's loved by his family does that does the person's humanity ever sink in there
00:36:29.640 or is that just that's not that's where my illness comes in because i liked reagan
00:36:34.900 i liked reagan in 1980 and 1981 he was i thought he was a nice guy i'm sure i saw a movie or two
00:36:43.440 that he was in. My father loved Reagan. You know, my family were big Republicans. I didn't shoot him
00:36:49.960 because I had an animosity to him. I liked Reagan. So that's where my illness comes in.
00:36:57.540 Did you vote for him? No, I didn't vote that year. Okay, for anybody. So how did you get the idea
00:37:05.800 to show up at this hotel and shoot the president of the United States? Like what? 0.82
00:37:12.000 You saw the movie Taxi Driver, but that was a couple years earlier.
00:37:17.020 A week prior to the shooting, I flew to Los Angeles.
00:37:23.680 I was going to make one last attempt to make it with my music.
00:37:29.420 I had been living in Hollywood in 1976 when I first saw Taxi Driver.
00:37:35.020 But in 1981, I was going to make one last attempt to have a career in music, so I flew out to L.A., but when I got to the LAX airport, I couldn't function properly, and I thought to myself, what am I doing out here?
00:37:55.660 I got on a Greyhound bus
00:37:57.720 I went to the Greyhound bus station
00:37:59.240 Got on a Greyhound bus
00:38:01.200 And went cross country on this bus
00:38:04.520 The week prior to the shooting
00:38:07.380 I arrived in Washington, D.C.
00:38:12.480 March 29th
00:38:14.720 Checked into a hotel
00:38:17.140 The next morning
00:38:19.340 I saw Reagan's schedule in the newspaper
00:38:22.720 His schedule for the day
00:38:24.900 and i saw that he was going to be at the washington hilton and so that's how i knew where to go
00:38:31.540 on march 30th wow it's amazing to this day that they make the president's schedule so public
00:38:38.240 that's how the attempted assassin at the hilton this past time knew where president trump was
00:38:44.460 what time he was going to be there you know we're still we're still doing that is that
00:38:49.680 unbelievable to you yeah it is uh i guess i guess you have to do it because everybody all the press
00:38:56.980 and everybody wants to wants to know exactly where the president is and what he's doing
00:39:00.820 minute by minute so i guess that's why they do it i i take it you don't think that's a great idea
00:39:06.660 no no not at all they should they should accessible they shouldn't i think i think
00:39:13.780 they did stop putting his putting president's daily schedules in the newspaper um but um
00:39:23.280 yeah they shouldn't be giving they shouldn't be giving out such minute details about the
00:39:28.980 president's schedule no they shouldn't it's not necessary for the rest of us to have that
00:39:33.840 so you go to the i mean it's crazy because i keep wanting to call it the hinkley hilton you
00:39:38.180 know they call it that right yeah i did i heard that it's crazy so they they you go to what will
00:39:44.480 become known as the hinkley hilton and you join the press corps outside that's waiting for president
00:39:51.280 reagan right and i know this is another area in which you've been actually kind of critical of
00:39:56.320 the secret service tell us why well i pulled up in a taxi cab and got out and i saw where a little
00:40:03.200 crowd had gathered so i went over to the crowd and got became part of the crowd you know no no
00:40:11.300 security no no secret service was was really paying attention to us because i was part of
00:40:17.900 the press crowd so reagan's entourage pulled up and he got out of the car and walked towards the
00:40:26.580 building and he waved over and it looked like he was waving right at me and it kind of startled me
00:40:34.160 and i waved right back to him and he went on into the building ladies and gentlemen the president
00:40:42.160 of the united states and gave his speech thank you very much while he was giving his speech i
00:40:50.220 just milled around that area no one was paying any attention to me and together
00:40:56.860 We'll make America great again.
00:40:59.280 Thank you very much.
00:41:02.360 So when Reagan came back out, that's when I fired my shots.
00:41:09.140 So no one had tried to screen you, pat you down, ask you questions, make you go through a magnetometer to get that close to the president?
00:41:18.380 No, not at all.
00:41:19.940 I'm sure today is different, but back then, no one approached me.
00:41:26.140 do you remember what it was like in the moments before you pulled the gun out of what your pocket
00:41:32.540 i had a coat on it was in my coat pocket um do you remember that feeling not really well um
00:41:41.920 i just i just you know i just pulled out the gun and just started firing wildly in the president's
00:41:49.980 direction and unfortunately i hit other people and um i do think i remember dropping the gun to
00:41:58.180 the ground and kind of crouching because i knew i thought i was going to be shot by the secret
00:42:03.700 service but instead they they just jumped on me and people in the crowd started jumping on me and
00:42:11.540 pummeling me and um finally finally i got pulled out of the crowd and taken to a car
00:42:19.980 Were you afraid of being shot?
00:42:24.020 Not really.
00:42:25.000 I was thinking if I'm going to commit this crime, the chances are really good I'm going to be shot.
00:42:32.240 So that was my thinking.
00:42:35.020 But I think because I was in such a crowd of people, the Secret Service didn't start firing.
00:42:41.820 They just jumped on me.
00:42:43.480 We have a bit of that moment here.
00:42:49.980 happens in seconds
00:42:59.420 and you were so close how many feet away would you say you were from the president about 10 or 15
00:43:09.920 feet gosh that's stunning to watch john after it happened did you have a feeling of you know
00:43:18.660 triumph like now now jody's gonna know who i am yes i did i mean not not not while i'm being
00:43:27.080 pummeled but in the days that followed i thought yeah i was gonna have this this reunion with jody
00:43:32.420 that she would be so impressed by what i did and want to come see me and be with me and all this
00:43:38.800 stuff i had that feeling in addition to the president for well three others were wounded
00:43:46.540 press secretary james baker his injuries would be james brady very severe yeah sorry brady and uh
00:43:53.740 he had a head wound he was critically wounded there was secret service agent uh tim mccarthy
00:43:58.100 he was shot in the side in the chest there was dc policeman thomas delahanty he was shot in the
00:44:05.420 neck james brady has been the name of the press room he was the press secretary and he's probably
00:44:11.800 the most famous of the ones other than President Reagan who were shot that day, a big advocate for
00:44:19.160 gun control and gun safety measures because of what happened to him. And I wonder, like, and of
00:44:26.340 course, President Reagan was shot, you did shoot him. And it was by the grace of God that his life
00:44:31.060 was not taken. I mean, they said that had that bullet been, you know, an inch the other way,
00:44:34.980 he would have been dead. He didn't even know he'd been shot until he got into the car. And then it
00:44:40.660 became clear, but it just missed his heart. He had a collapsed lung. He walked into George
00:44:47.060 Washington Hospital and famously told his wife, Nancy, honey, I forgot to duck. So when you think
00:44:54.240 about that, when you hear those injuries, John, what does that do to you? What does it make you
00:44:58.960 feel? It makes me feel really bad that I hurt four people that day. One critically, James Brady,
00:45:09.380 It makes me feel very bad.
00:45:12.100 You know, part of the reason, another part of the reason I wrote the book, Megan, is because people think I don't have remorse for what I did.
00:45:20.900 So I wanted to bring out in the book that I have tremendous remorse for what I did.
00:45:25.860 I just wish I could take it all back.
00:45:29.920 And, you know, I'm so sorry for what happened.
00:45:33.300 president reagan would give an interview to larry king about his experience there
00:45:41.600 here's some of that i didn't know i was shot i heard a noise and we came out of the hotel and
00:45:47.940 headed for the limousine and i heard some noise and i thought it was firecrackers
00:45:52.600 and the next thing i knew one of the secret service agents behind me just
00:45:57.780 He seized me here by the waist and plunged me headfirst into the limo.
00:46:02.280 I landed on the seat, and the seat divider was down,
00:46:05.160 and then he dived in on top of me, which is part of their procedure,
00:46:08.520 to make sure that I'm covered.
00:46:10.980 Well, as it turned out later, the shot that got me
00:46:14.920 caromed off the side of the limousine and hit me while I was diving into the car.
00:46:20.140 And it hit me back here under the arm and then hit a rib,
00:46:24.020 and that's what caused an extreme pain.
00:46:27.780 And then it tumbled, it turned, instead of edgewise, and went tumbling down to within an inch of my heart.
00:46:34.740 Amazing, because the great communicator, as they called him, still sounding kind of optimistic and sunny in the recitation of his assassination attempt.
00:46:42.980 And then there was this moment, John.
00:46:45.580 I didn't know for quite a while until they began to tell me about the young man that had done this.
00:46:51.760 and what his problem was
00:46:54.480 that he was not exactly
00:46:56.140 on a normal basis
00:46:58.120 and so then
00:46:59.720 I added him to my prayers
00:47:02.260 prayers for myself
00:47:04.120 that well if I wanted healing
00:47:06.340 for myself
00:47:07.060 maybe he should have some healing
00:47:10.400 for himself. Did you forgive John Hinkley?
00:47:12.780 Yes, I
00:47:13.960 found out he wasn't
00:47:15.680 he wasn't
00:47:18.360 thinking on all
00:47:19.480 cylinders
00:47:21.200 Did you see that at the time?
00:47:24.280 No, I didn't.
00:47:26.720 When was the first you saw that?
00:47:29.400 Many years later, I saw it and was really touched by what President Reagan said.
00:47:37.740 Very touched.
00:47:40.180 And it wasn't just him.
00:47:42.420 Jim Brady also spoke out about you a couple years later.
00:47:45.420 This is from 1982.
00:47:47.120 Do you ever think about this man, John Hinckley, and what he did?
00:47:54.800 I mean...
00:47:57.120 Well, every day in therapy that I'm there and taking my pain-ridden body around those two gymnasiums that we've got down there
00:48:12.540 and hurting every step of the way.
00:48:15.260 It's pretty difficult not to think of why you're in that situation.
00:48:23.160 But I think dwelling on the past smacks of revenge or, you know, I hope he doesn't win the Irish sweepstakes or something like that.
00:48:39.340 I'm not really wishing him any evil.
00:48:42.840 Not wishing you any evil.
00:48:44.040 He was paralyzed as a result of the shooting.
00:48:47.040 Pretty extraordinary acts of forgiveness and kindness your way, John.
00:48:51.520 Did that, is that something that they would show you in the psychiatric hospital to help humanize these guys for you?
00:48:58.920 No, it wasn't until I was released that I saw this, some of this.
00:49:04.260 I'd never seen what you displayed with Mr. Brady.
00:49:08.260 I'd never seen that before, but.
00:49:10.780 Oh.
00:49:10.960 Oh, no.
00:49:12.880 What's your reaction to seeing that?
00:49:15.680 Well, I just wish so much.
00:49:21.280 I hadn't done what I did that day because James Brady certainly deserved to have a good life.
00:49:28.700 And I took that away from him.
00:49:31.580 But I'm just very sorry for what I did.
00:49:34.500 did you ever have the chance to apologize to any of the four men by letter or other way i wasn't
00:49:41.720 allowed to i mean i actually had a court order that i couldn't i couldn't communicate with them
00:49:47.620 it makes sense yeah i mean to their family members who may see this what do you want them to know
00:49:56.300 i'm very sorry for what happened and i'm not the person that i was in 1981 and
00:50:01.480 And I do have I do have a great deal of remorse for what I did.
00:50:07.160 And I'm just so sorry for what happened.
00:50:11.300 And then there's Jody, who gave an interview after she learned of what what had happened and that she was, through no fault of her own, a motivation for it.
00:50:24.680 She held a press conference in April 1981.
00:50:27.180 And here's a bit from that.
00:50:28.480 Actress Jodie Foster, now a student at Yale University, says that she was very frightened.
00:50:33.280 She cried when she heard that Hinkley was suspected of attempting to kill the president.
00:50:37.780 Hinkley, it turns out, had been sending letters to Foster for some time.
00:50:40.960 Foster told reporters she received several letters from Hinkley last fall and threw them away,
00:50:46.540 what she usually does with unsolicited mail.
00:50:49.420 But she was disturbed when more letters arrived in March.
00:50:52.900 I gave them to my college dean, who in turn gave them to the Yale police.
00:50:56.460 These are now in the custody of the FBI.
00:50:58.480 In none of these letters and notes I received was any mention, reference, or implication ever made as to violent acts against anyone, nor was the president ever mentioned.
00:51:08.040 How did you feel when you noticed the possible relationship?
00:51:12.520 I felt very shocked, very frightened, and very distressed.
00:51:18.460 Very distressed.
00:51:19.820 John, do you count Jody as one of your victims?
00:51:23.140 Oh, yes. Definitely.
00:51:24.880 does she have anything to worry about now no not at all i'm not i'm not obsessed with her
00:51:31.660 and um i only wish her well hinkley has applied to visit his parents over easter
00:51:38.120 without an escort and once again there have been serious objections when we come back the
00:51:43.720 notorious criminal pen pals who helped delay john hinkley jr's release startling revelation
00:51:49.180 from miller brought the hearing to an abrupt end and the letters that left many questioning
00:51:53.640 whether his remorse was real. Yeah, my judgment was not good in the 1980s.
00:52:05.000 It's always good to tackle the root of a problem rather than just slapping a band-aid on it.
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00:55:00.900 Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly.
00:55:02.960 I've got some exciting news.
00:55:05.140 I now have my very own channel on SiriusXM.
00:55:08.220 It's called The Megyn Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies.
00:55:14.500 Along with The Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.
00:55:23.880 It's bold, no BS news, only on The Megyn Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.
00:55:30.480 welcome back to the megan kelly show and our interview with john hinckley jr the man who
00:55:38.740 shot president reagan 45 years ago this past march today he's a free man living in rural
00:55:44.980 virginia how is it that after was it 34 years yes they said you could leave the facility
00:55:55.080 and go out on supervised release if you lived with your mom in 2016.
00:56:01.320 How did they get to that point?
00:56:03.520 Well, I had gradual releases, you know, from three days to five days,
00:56:10.480 to seven days, to 10 days, to 17 days.
00:56:13.860 So I was not just released overnight.
00:56:15.780 Over a period of years, I was getting these gradual releases given to me by the judge.
00:56:22.960 And finally, by 2015, the judge saw that I was ready to leave the hospital as an outpatient.
00:56:34.740 And so in, I believe it was September of 2016, I left St. Elizabeth's for good and never went back.
00:56:43.480 Wow. I understand they were considering possible release a couple of times earlier,
00:56:49.540 But they found out once or twice that you were corresponding with some serial killers, which didn't exactly help your chances.
00:56:57.220 Right. Who did you correspond with?
00:56:59.860 That was in the 1980s when I still was going through my recovery.
00:57:05.100 I had a correspondence briefly with Ted Bundy and some of Manson's followers were writing to me.
00:57:13.280 I never communicated with Manson himself, but Squeaky Fromm wrote to me several times.
00:57:22.740 Stinkley received mail from Squeaky Fromm, the Charles Manson follower, now in prison for attempting to kill President Ford.
00:57:28.900 Went to shake a hand, and I looked down, and there was a gun in a hand pointed directly at me.
00:57:35.860 Yeah, my judgment was not good in the 1980s.
00:57:38.980 what why why were they communicating with you why was ted bundy writing you letters
00:57:44.320 just because i was very well known back then you know i was in the news all the time
00:57:49.700 and um they wrote to me and in those two in those instances instances i wrote back
00:57:57.960 you write in the book in chapter 41 um arriving at saint elizabeth's they admired me i was famous
00:58:07.700 not loved but certainly familiar these people couldn't believe it was me i would be waiting
00:58:13.120 in line for something and suddenly everyone would move out of the way to let me go up front
00:58:16.780 people argued over who got to battle me in cards or at the ping pong table when i started talking
00:58:22.140 in group sessions everybody shut up and listened fast i got a private room right next to the main
00:58:27.680 offices did you feel like a celebrity was that important to you i mean i did because when i when
00:58:34.700 I first went to St. Elizabeth's, I was on TV almost every day. Opening arguments were heard
00:58:39.900 and the first witnesses called. And the other patients would see me on TV and they couldn't
00:58:45.340 believe I was standing there right there in front of them. And they were just kind of in awe of me.
00:58:52.900 And yeah, I was treated very much like a celebrity by the patients. There's a debate going on right
00:58:58.220 now in society that I've taken a firm stand on. And it revolves around whether we should,
00:59:03.820 as news media say the name of mass shooters or even potentially assassins you know attempted
00:59:12.040 assassins because it's it can be dangerous to give them the infamy they seek what do you think
00:59:19.140 well it's it's hard not to say their name on the news because you're you're reporting the story
00:59:26.040 and the public wants to know the i think the public wants to know the shooter's name i mean
00:59:33.200 For instance, after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, you immediately knew that assassin's name.
00:59:42.440 They weren't trying to hide it or anything.
00:59:44.800 So I think it'd be very difficult to just not say the shooter's name.
00:59:52.460 And what about the widespread use of it and repeating it over and over?
00:59:56.400 What do you think that does?
00:59:57.260 I don't think you need to do that.
00:59:59.660 But I'm just saying in a news story, if you're going to report the news accurately, it's kind of hard not to say the name.
01:00:08.540 How do you think it would have affected you, John?
01:00:10.500 Do you have any any way of speculating if you had known that if you did this dastardly deed, no one would say your name?
01:00:20.280 Jodie Foster would not know it was you.
01:00:22.300 Your name wouldn't be well known.
01:00:24.200 You wouldn't be famous.
01:00:25.100 And then when you got to St. Elizabeth's, you would not get any sort of star treatment.
01:00:30.900 I don't think I would have done it.
01:00:33.200 I mean, the whole point of it was to get Jody's attention.
01:00:39.640 And, you know, so she would know who I am.
01:00:43.660 So, yeah, I mean, if my name was going to be tipped out of everything, I don't think I would have done it.
01:00:51.100 What did you learn about Ted Bundy in your correspondence?
01:00:53.620 well it was brief i can't he just we it was they were mundane letters we just talked about what we
01:01:01.560 did during the day and it's hard to believe i'm you know listening to reading about what ted
01:01:09.500 bunny does during his day in his cell but that's i mean the letters were just very mundane letters
01:01:15.940 okay god i feel like saint elizabeth's kind of dropped the ball there like how are they allowing
01:01:21.660 this kind of influence on you
01:01:24.000 while you're in their care?
01:01:25.740 Oh, I don't know.
01:01:26.520 This is...
01:01:28.420 I was getting so much mail back then,
01:01:31.080 I think they kind of lost track of everything.
01:01:34.320 Did you have any of the ladies 0.98
01:01:36.260 who write you letters saying, 1.00
01:01:38.040 I want to be your girlfriend
01:01:39.160 or I want to get married?
01:01:40.080 Oh, yeah. Lots, yes.
01:01:41.540 You did?
01:01:42.300 Yes.
01:01:44.900 Did you get married or see any of them?
01:01:47.420 I didn't get married, 0.87
01:01:48.680 but I had a whole lot of young ladies 1.00
01:01:51.620 writing to me and wanting to meet me and giving me their phone number and address and 0.74
01:01:57.860 measurements and everything else oh wow and did that just peter off and you know over the course
01:02:05.700 of the three decades or what yeah i just it kind of dwindled out over time yeah the uh in your book
01:02:12.820 you talk about the charlie manson correspondent um saying you did get one from charlie himself
01:02:17.860 Yes, you're right. He knew of me. Apparently, he even liked me. Saw me as something of a kindred spirit. His letter salutation was John Boy with a nice little swastika right in the middle of it. Do you still have these?
01:02:32.340 Oh, no, no. The government has those letters. I don't have the letters.
01:02:37.940 I mean, it's pretty crazy, the life that you've gone through. I can't even imagine. So what was it, John? Was it medication that helped finally, you know, you break free from this mental illness that got you to the point where this psychosis was no longer debilitating?
01:02:59.380 I think the main thing was my long 22-year relationship with Leslie DeVoe that brought me out of my depression and psychosis.
01:03:09.800 And yes, the medication helped, and the therapies helped, and some of the staff at St. Elizabeth's helped.
01:03:18.920 As I got older, I just got away from a lot of thinking, bad thoughts that I had early on in my life.
01:03:29.380 Were you what happened to Leslie?
01:03:34.380 After 22 years, she just got tired. 0.73
01:03:37.860 The government started focusing on her and going through her going through her bank records and her trash.
01:03:46.100 And she just said, I can't deal with this.
01:03:48.800 So we ended the relationship.
01:03:51.260 She's no longer alive.
01:03:53.140 I mean, she she died a few years ago, but she just couldn't deal with the government.
01:03:59.380 surveillance of course we're speaking to john hinckley jr and some of these memories are
01:04:06.820 documented in his memoir which is called who i really am it came out last december who i really
01:04:13.360 am so then eventually in 2022 you were released entirely no conditions you're on your own and
01:04:22.680 you've been living that way now for some four years how do you spend your days what's your
01:04:27.660 life like now i do what everybody else does i go grocery shopping and do my laundry and take care
01:04:33.720 i have two cats that i take care of and uh i write my songs i do i do cat paintings
01:04:41.620 sell my little cat paintings to pay my bills and pay my rent you know i have a quiet life
01:04:47.980 here in williamsburg do you ever get recognized occasionally when i'm in the stores
01:04:53.780 people how does that go people will come up to me and um want to take a picture with me or shake
01:05:00.180 my hand or yeah really they they say the main thing that they see is i love your music hello
01:05:06.980 Hello, everybody. This is another one of my original songs.
01:05:15.900 You only know what used to be.
01:05:21.720 You don't know a different side of me.
01:05:27.620 I do have a lot of my songs on Spotify and the other streaming sites.
01:05:32.120 If anybody wants to hear my music.
01:05:34.480 What do you like to sing about?
01:05:36.980 Um, getting over hard times is the main theme.
01:05:44.480 I have a YouTube channel where I sing my songs and I, I have all my songs on, as I said, on the, on the streaming sites.
01:05:55.820 If anybody wants to hear them.
01:05:58.060 And how, what, what, where's, what's your YouTube channels in case they do?
01:06:02.040 It's just John Hinkley.
01:06:04.140 Okay.
01:06:05.380 Are any of your families still alive?
01:06:08.080 My brother and sister are.
01:06:09.260 My parents are deceased, but my brother and sister are still alive.
01:06:14.120 Are you in their lives at all?
01:06:16.560 Oh, yeah.
01:06:17.700 I just talked to my sister yesterday on the phone.
01:06:20.860 Okay, so they're supportive.
01:06:22.240 How do you pay your bills?
01:06:23.440 Like, how do you, you know, make money?
01:06:25.640 By selling my little cat paintings.
01:06:27.380 I don't make very much money.
01:06:29.680 I just, I barely get by paying bills and paying rent and paying for gas and all this stuff.
01:06:41.600 And how old are you now?
01:06:43.120 I'm seven.
01:06:43.720 I just turned 71.
01:06:46.280 Wow.
01:06:47.360 So, I mean, you could have, God willing, you know, a decade or two in front of you, John.
01:06:52.340 What do you think, when you look back on the measure of your life, the vast majority of it's been in a locked facility because you were, of course, found not guilty by reason of mental defect.
01:07:05.520 And when that happens, you get locked up until a psychiatrist team says that you are no longer a danger to society, which is what happened since you were eventually released.
01:07:14.780 And you look back on your life now with a relatively normal childhood, obviously some sort of a break in your early 20s, and the loss of your freedom for the vast majority of your time here on this earth.
01:07:25.680 How do you assess the measure of John Hinckley, Jr.?
01:07:30.780 Well, that I developed this bad mental illness early on in my life and that I overcame the illness, that I'm a survivor, that I have overcome so much.
01:07:41.260 I have seen so much
01:07:43.140 bad things
01:07:44.860 in my time at St. Elizabeth's
01:07:47.260 and
01:07:48.760 I've had a strong faith
01:07:51.400 throughout all of this
01:07:52.440 I am a Christian
01:07:53.860 I've had a strong faith throughout all of this
01:07:56.760 and I just hope in my remaining
01:07:59.160 days I can
01:08:00.240 please the Lord
01:08:02.460 Amen
01:08:04.860 Good luck to you
01:08:06.540 Thank you for coming on and telling your story
01:08:08.860 Thank you Megan
01:08:10.040 it's a fascinating story again if you would like to read john's full story his book is titled
01:08:17.140 john hinkley jr who i really am with political violence once again part of the national
01:08:22.800 conversation it is interesting and it's valuable to hear from someone like john
01:08:27.200 although president reagan forgave hinkley his children have had differing views about hinkley's
01:08:33.120 release reagan's daughter patty davis long opposed it after a judge approved hinkley's
01:08:38.920 unconditional release in 2021. She wrote, quote, when someone you love is gunned down, time doesn't
01:08:44.600 move on from that day, that hour, that moment. That event is your prison and there is no release
01:08:50.260 from it. I actually interviewed Michael Regan many times during my years at Fox. What a great guy he
01:08:56.140 was. I loved Michael Regan. In 2012, he expressed concerns about Hinckley's release and he shared
01:09:03.460 this story from when he rushed to the hospital to see his dad after he was shot everybody remembers
01:09:10.100 my dad's sense of humor during that period of time and he was no different with family he was
01:09:14.400 with the public and i remember walking in the hospital room and and my dad looking up at me
01:09:18.660 and going well if you're ever going to get shot don't be wearing a new suit and i said excuse me
01:09:25.500 well you know yesterday i was wearing a new suit i said i know that and he said well if you're ever
01:09:30.200 going to get shot, don't be wearing a new one. I said, well, thank you for the warning. And he
01:09:34.160 said, that young man who shot me, Hinkley, I said, yes, John Hinkley. I understand his parents are in
01:09:38.920 the oil business. I said, yes, they are, Dad. I understand they live in Denver. I said, yes.
01:09:43.560 He says, do you think they have any money? I said, well, I don't know. I imagine they would
01:09:47.560 have money, oil business, Denver. He looked at me and says, well, do you think they'd ever buy me a
01:09:53.500 suit
01:09:57.180 not only of course that is that have a bullet hole in it but they had to cut it
01:10:00.140 off of him when he was brought to the er
01:10:02.360 michael what do you think your dad would think about it because he famously
01:10:05.200 forgave
01:10:06.260 john hinkley jr
01:10:07.740 uh... and you know as so many christians do they they
01:10:11.860 they forgive those who
01:10:13.460 trespass against them and that doesn't necessarily mean one walking free though
01:10:18.480 well when i go out and speak and i speak a lot about that that here is the man
01:10:21.520 who actually lived the Lord's Prayer just didn't go out and recite it.
01:10:25.200 And I told people, I said, interesting, that bullet.
01:10:27.860 My dad is shot and fell, first president to ever be shot, and survive.
01:10:33.100 But not long after that, Pope John Paul is also shot and survives.
01:10:36.840 What did both of them do?
01:10:38.420 Both of them got down on their knees and forgave their assassins before they even left the
01:10:43.820 hospital room.
01:10:45.040 And then later on, Ronald Reagan and John Paul would get together.
01:10:49.320 And what was it they could talk about?
01:10:51.280 that both of them felt God had saved them for a purpose.
01:10:56.580 And what ultimately was that purpose?
01:10:58.580 The two of them ended up changing the world.
01:11:02.040 A few years later, Michael Reagan had a change of heart
01:11:05.180 and publicly supported Hinkley's release.
01:11:08.140 He was such a sweetheart.
01:11:09.720 He said that if his father could forgive Hinkley, then he should too.
01:11:13.100 Though he joked that his stepmother, Nancy Reagan,
01:11:14.960 would be, quote, pissed if she were still alive.
01:11:18.240 One final note.
01:11:19.260 a few years ago on this show, I spoke with Tom Baker, the first FBI agent on the scene of the
01:11:25.320 shooting outside of the Washington Hilton. He described the chaos of those first minutes
01:11:29.840 and hours. As I got out of my car, a man came running up to me, Lieutenant Wilson of the
01:11:38.560 Washington DC homicide squad. And he knew me from a previous incident. And he had the revolver in a
01:11:46.520 last seen envelope that his officers had just taken off of Hinkley. And he says, we have the
01:11:51.920 gun. We want to give it to you. And I said to him, hold on. There's a truck from the FBI lab coming.
01:11:58.440 What was that like within moments coming up to a scene where the president of the United States
01:12:04.060 was just shot in an attempted assassination? And you've got the lieutenant running over to you
01:12:09.600 saying, we've got the gun and trying to give it to you. I mean, is there any element of you as a man
01:12:16.040 just feeling like oh my god that was exactly it it was the oh my god was that whole two or three
01:12:24.460 minutes riding up there i knew this is really something we have to do it right hinkley we know
01:12:29.860 he was a disturbed young man but at the moment the shooting happened we didn't know that so we
01:12:35.640 were very concerned is this part of a bigger conspiracy is this part of something perhaps
01:12:41.660 being engineered by the Soviets, the Russians, and are other people elsewhere going to be shot?
01:12:48.580 So that first hour or two early that day, it was, I describe it, and later we looked up and we did
01:12:58.200 a lot of studies about it afterwards, it was a crisis situation. It evolved into a major case,
01:13:04.660 but at that first hour or two, it was, we considered it a crisis. When they went in,
01:13:10.360 the surgeons to get the bullet, the head surgeon couldn't clearly see the bullet because it was
01:13:16.480 literally behind the heart. And another little side story is there was an intern there, an intern
01:13:22.960 being someone the first year out of medical school was on duty beside the surgeon in the emergency
01:13:28.480 room. And to assist the surgeon in getting to the bullet, the intern reached with his hand into the
01:13:36.760 open chest of the president and cupped the president's beating heart in his hand and
01:13:44.580 held it aside like an inch or an inch and a half so that the surgeon could reach under the heart
01:13:49.920 and take out the bullet, which is what happened. It's amazing to think of it. This
01:13:54.900 24-year-old is holding the president's beating heart in his hand. It's quite a remarkable scene.
01:14:02.640 It's just remarkable to think about how differently that day could have ended and just how different the world would be today had President Reagan actually been assassinated.
01:14:13.780 Thank God he lived.
01:14:15.840 Tom Baker shared many more incredible stories.
01:14:17.960 To watch our full episode, search for episode number 456.
01:14:23.160 Thanks to all of you for watching.
01:14:24.700 And as always, let me know your thoughts.
01:14:26.820 My email is megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at megankelly.com.
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01:16:12.660 booking a Vrbo vacation rental means no worrying about surprises. VrboCare and 24-7 live support
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01:16:19.840 The Love by Guest filter helps you find top-rated homes,
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01:16:26.280 So you know exactly what you're booking.
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