The Megyn Kelly Show - Yet Another Trump Indictment, And Why People Don't Trust Institutions, with the Ruthless Hosts, Dave Aronberg, and Mike Davis ｜ Ep. 608

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:03.780 I started wondering,

00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. 1.00

00:00:11.260 Are those from Winners?

00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings?

00:00:14.880 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.620 Or that leather tote?

00:00:17.620 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:18.840 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:20.280 That dress?

00:00:21.060 That jacket?

00:00:21.740 Those shoes?

00:00:22.780 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:25.780 Stop wondering.

00:00:26.980 Start winning.

00:00:27.920 Winners.

00:00:28.500 Find fabulous for less.

00:00:30.620 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.520 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.180 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.700 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.920 Donald Trump indicted again.

00:00:49.600 Just like the last one,

00:00:51.460 this one is about him contesting the results of the 2020 election.

00:00:54.900 And it is largely based on a Georgia state law

00:00:57.820 against racketeering,

00:00:59.200 a law typically used to target mobsters.

00:01:02.500 Prosecutor Fannie Willis alleges that Trump's comments,

00:01:06.380 public and private,

00:01:07.800 that he had actually won Georgia's electoral votes,

00:01:10.260 that ballots were fraudulently cast for Joe Biden,

00:01:13.040 that election officials

00:01:14.160 had allegedly manipulated votes in favor of Joe Biden and more,

00:01:18.780 were all part of a criminal scheme

00:01:20.920 by Trump and his cronies

00:01:23.100 to steal the election.

00:01:24.780 She also zeroes in on Trump's efforts

00:01:27.560 to get Vice President Mike Pence

00:01:29.340 to go along with a proposal devised by Trump's attorneys

00:01:32.260 to swing the election in his favor after the vote.

00:01:35.740 The plan laid out in a memo written by attorney John Eastman

00:01:39.480 and another lawyer,

00:01:40.740 both of whom are now indicted,

00:01:43.280 suggests that Team Trump

00:01:44.420 could get Mike Pence

00:01:46.080 to disregard the electoral votes

00:01:48.100 in several swing states

00:01:49.420 and to instead recognize

00:01:51.260 so-called fake

00:01:52.440 or alternate slates of electors

00:01:54.900 from such states

00:01:55.780 that would then cast their electoral votes

00:01:58.180 for Trump

00:01:59.080 instead of Biden.

00:02:00.420 The rationale being that

00:02:02.180 the actual votes

00:02:03.620 coming out of those states

00:02:04.620 were allegedly not to be trusted

00:02:06.640 and therefore the real winner Trump

00:02:08.780 was entitled to the support

00:02:10.800 of the electors.

00:02:12.880 This is also part of Jack Smith's

00:02:15.060 January 6th indictment

00:02:16.320 that came down earlier this month.

00:02:18.920 As expected,

00:02:20.060 Willis casts certain phone calls

00:02:21.980 as criminal as well,

00:02:24.160 including one on January 2nd,

00:02:26.100 2021,

00:02:26.820 in which Trump

00:02:27.480 spoke to Georgia Secretary of State

00:02:29.720 Brad Raffensperger,

00:02:31.620 along with eight others

00:02:32.840 who were on the call

00:02:33.600 and said the following.

00:02:36.280 What are we going to do here, folks?

00:02:37.360 I only need 11,000 votes.

00:02:39.340 Fellas,

00:02:40.040 I need 11,000 votes.

00:02:41.700 Give me a break.

00:02:43.720 Though this is the sentence

00:02:44.960 that has made news

00:02:45.960 for two years

00:02:47.840 as alleged proof positive

00:02:49.800 that Trump was behaving criminally,

00:02:52.740 it's not anywhere close to the focus.

00:02:55.320 I don't even think it's mentioned

00:02:56.240 in Fannie Willis's indictment.

00:02:59.040 This is that

00:02:59.420 because if you read the whole thing,

00:03:00.720 if you listen to the whole transcript

00:03:02.840 between Trump

00:03:04.540 and these nine others

00:03:06.020 on the phone call,

00:03:07.360 you can hear

00:03:08.180 that he's basically saying

00:03:10.080 the reason he chose 11,000 and change

00:03:12.600 is because that's how much

00:03:13.640 he lost Georgia by.

00:03:14.600 And he's saying

00:03:15.280 there was huge fraud

00:03:17.180 in this vote.

00:03:18.380 It's not true,

00:03:19.300 but it's what he was saying.

00:03:20.680 So he was saying,

00:03:21.360 you don't have to do

00:03:21.960 this exhaustive representation,

00:03:24.200 this exhaustive look

00:03:25.360 or investigation

00:03:25.900 into all the votes

00:03:27.020 once I get to 11,750

00:03:29.440 or whatever it was.

00:03:30.700 We're good.

00:03:31.640 But he wasn't saying

00:03:32.280 go make up votes.

00:03:33.580 He was saying

00:03:34.240 there's been massive voter fraud.

00:03:35.840 You only have to look

00:03:36.880 until you find me

00:03:37.580 the number

00:03:38.560 that would put me over the top

00:03:40.000 and then I will stop contesting.

00:03:42.280 And she thinks

00:03:43.440 that was a crime.

00:03:44.620 She thinks

00:03:45.400 the follow up comments

00:03:47.040 on that call,

00:03:48.280 which she does zero in on,

00:03:50.120 were a crime,

00:03:51.820 including this comment.

00:03:52.880 We won very substantially,

00:03:56.120 Georgia.

00:03:58.360 You even see it

00:03:59.480 by rally size, frankly.

00:04:01.300 We have at least

00:04:02.180 two or three,

00:04:03.020 anywhere from 250

00:04:04.540 to 300,000 ballots

00:04:06.340 were dropped

00:04:07.040 mysteriously

00:04:08.220 into the rolls.

00:04:10.000 Much of that

00:04:10.600 had to do

00:04:11.300 with Fulton County,

00:04:12.820 which hasn't been checked.

00:04:14.760 We think that

00:04:15.340 if you check

00:04:15.920 the signatures,

00:04:16.800 a real check

00:04:17.420 of the signatures

00:04:18.160 going back

00:04:19.000 in Fulton County,

00:04:20.440 you'll find

00:04:20.900 at least a couple

00:04:21.740 of hundred thousand

00:04:22.620 of forged signatures

00:04:24.980 of people

00:04:26.280 with that

00:04:27.620 who have been forged.

00:04:30.080 And we are quite sure

00:04:31.660 that's going to happen.

00:04:35.140 OK, he's saying

00:04:36.720 we think

00:04:37.360 this is our opinion.

00:04:38.740 You should check.

00:04:40.080 It's a crime,

00:04:40.780 according to her.

00:04:42.140 These are just

00:04:42.580 a few examples

00:04:43.240 of the behavior

00:04:43.960 Fannie Willis,

00:04:44.720 an elected Democrat

00:04:45.860 prosecutor,

00:04:47.020 says amounted 0.66

00:04:48.080 to a criminal

00:04:49.040 attempt to unlawfully

00:04:50.280 change the outcome

00:04:51.140 of the 2020

00:04:51.860 presidential election.

00:04:53.660 In all,

00:04:54.340 there are 13 counts

00:04:55.560 against Trump,

00:04:56.580 including violation

00:04:57.280 of the Georgia.

00:04:58.040 This is a state case.

00:04:59.020 Remember,

00:04:59.520 it's important

00:05:00.060 and we'll get to why

00:05:00.980 of the Georgia

00:05:01.980 RICO statute.

00:05:02.840 That's the racketeering count,

00:05:04.020 as well as solicitation

00:05:05.660 of violation

00:05:06.800 of an oath

00:05:08.180 by a public officer

00:05:09.540 and several

00:05:11.200 alleged conspiracies,

00:05:12.280 including to commit

00:05:13.300 the impersonation

00:05:14.360 of a public officer,

00:05:15.520 to commit forgery,

00:05:17.380 to commit false statements,

00:05:18.820 and to commit filing

00:05:20.420 false documents.

00:05:21.980 All those revolve

00:05:23.020 around the facts

00:05:23.600 that I just laid out

00:05:24.440 for you from the indictment.

00:05:26.900 Eighteen others

00:05:28.540 have also been indicted.

00:05:30.940 Eighteen men

00:05:32.540 and women

00:05:33.120 who assisted Trump

00:05:33.880 in these efforts,

00:05:34.700 lawyers,

00:05:35.620 alternate electors,

00:05:36.880 people who arranged

00:05:37.820 phone calls

00:05:38.860 for Trump

00:05:39.860 to state election officials

00:05:41.580 in swing states

00:05:42.500 other than Georgia,

00:05:43.900 a publicist,

00:05:44.740 I could go on.

00:05:45.960 They're all accused

00:05:46.820 of assisting Trump

00:05:47.620 in this alleged

00:05:48.780 corrupt conspiracy

00:05:50.500 and also face

00:05:52.640 their own allegations

00:05:53.360 of misconduct,

00:05:54.280 including the unlawful

00:05:55.980 breach of election

00:05:57.160 equipment in Georgia

00:05:58.480 and elsewhere.

00:05:59.400 This is based

00:05:59.840 on Trump's allies

00:06:00.620 pursuant to a plan

00:06:01.640 allegedly hatched

00:06:02.320 by Rudy Giuliani

00:06:03.140 to access

00:06:04.160 the voting machines

00:06:05.400 and voter data

00:06:06.980 after the election.

00:06:09.260 They were allowed

00:06:10.200 into a facility

00:06:11.040 in a Trump-friendly

00:06:12.400 Georgia county

00:06:13.420 to do this,

00:06:15.020 to kick the tires

00:06:15.860 of the Dominion

00:06:16.360 voting machines

00:06:17.040 by Trump-friendly

00:06:18.320 election supervisors,

00:06:19.980 one of whom

00:06:20.740 is also now indicted.

00:06:22.400 Now, the case

00:06:23.240 has been assigned

00:06:23.780 to Judge Scott,

00:06:25.020 I don't know

00:06:25.340 if it's McAfee

00:06:26.120 or McAfee,

00:06:27.380 but he was appointed

00:06:28.680 to the bench

00:06:29.220 six months ago

00:06:30.460 by Georgia's

00:06:31.340 Republican Governor

00:06:32.240 Brian Kemp.

00:06:33.780 The prosecutor,

00:06:34.480 Fannie Willis,

00:06:34.940 said last night

00:06:35.500 she hopes to try

00:06:36.380 this thing

00:06:36.860 within the next

00:06:38.620 six months,

00:06:39.600 notwithstanding the fact

00:06:40.900 that it apparently

00:06:41.420 took her

00:06:42.020 two and a half years

00:06:43.660 to prepare her case.

00:06:46.060 Prep time for me,

00:06:47.260 but not for thee,

00:06:48.600 it would appear.

00:06:49.500 Listen.

00:06:51.120 I am giving

00:06:52.300 the defendants

00:06:53.280 the opportunity

00:06:54.080 to voluntarily surrender

00:06:56.300 no later

00:06:57.440 than noon

00:06:58.340 on Friday,

00:07:00.240 the 25th day

00:07:01.220 of August

00:07:01.960 2023.

00:07:03.640 I don't have

00:07:05.000 any desire

00:07:06.020 to be first

00:07:06.720 or last.

00:07:07.400 I want to try him

00:07:08.340 and be respectful

00:07:09.080 for our sovereign states.

00:07:10.920 We do want to move

00:07:12.040 this case along,

00:07:13.060 and so we will be

00:07:14.280 asking for a proposed

00:07:15.320 order that occurs

00:07:16.620 a trial date

00:07:17.700 within the next

00:07:18.320 six months.

00:07:19.200 Do I intend to try

00:07:20.000 the 19 defendants

00:07:21.060 in this indictment

00:07:21.680 together?

00:07:22.580 Yes.

00:07:24.100 Okay,

00:07:24.540 good luck with that.

00:07:25.660 Joining me now

00:07:26.100 to discuss it all

00:07:27.000 are all-star

00:07:28.100 indictment lawyers

00:07:29.180 Mike Davis,

00:07:30.100 who is the founder

00:07:30.680 and president

00:07:31.220 of the Article 3 Project,

00:07:32.900 which defends

00:07:33.580 constitutionalist judges

00:07:34.880 and the rule of law,

00:07:36.100 and also with us

00:07:37.380 is Dave Ehrenberg.

00:07:38.500 He's the state attorney

00:07:39.300 for Palm Beach County,

00:07:40.140 Florida,

00:07:40.460 where Mar-a-Lago

00:07:41.060 is located.

00:07:41.540 You can find Mike

00:07:42.780 on Fox News.

00:07:44.060 You can find Dave

00:07:44.820 on MSNBC,

00:07:46.220 but the only place

00:07:47.220 to find them together

00:07:47.980 is right here.

00:07:49.320 Welcome back, guys.

00:07:49.980 Great to have you.

00:07:51.440 Thank you for having us.

00:07:53.800 So I gotta say,

00:07:55.100 I wasn't particularly

00:07:55.840 surprised by the charges

00:07:57.340 brought by Willis

00:07:59.080 in this case.

00:08:00.060 Mike,

00:08:00.960 I was surprised

00:08:01.980 at the 18 others

00:08:03.540 who also got indicted.

00:08:05.220 But what's your take

00:08:06.840 on what she's alleging

00:08:09.060 is criminal behavior

00:08:09.960 in this indictment?

00:08:11.540 I've read this

00:08:12.460 through this indictment

00:08:13.480 a couple times,

00:08:14.340 and it is,

00:08:15.360 it's loud,

00:08:16.800 it's long,

00:08:17.620 and it's lawless.

00:08:19.240 And the problem

00:08:20.380 with her indictment,

00:08:22.280 the fundamental problem

00:08:23.380 with this indictment

00:08:24.420 is she's essentially,

00:08:27.100 she's bringing

00:08:28.020 a mob statue,

00:08:29.400 a RICO statue

00:08:30.820 that you use

00:08:32.860 to take out the mob

00:08:34.400 to take out

00:08:35.100 your political enemies.

00:08:36.200 And the fundamental flaw

00:08:38.240 with her entire complaint,

00:08:40.140 and frankly,

00:08:40.620 the same fundamental flaw

00:08:41.860 with Jack Smith's

00:08:43.500 January 6th complaint,

00:08:45.140 is they are not alleging

00:08:47.320 that President Trump

00:08:49.180 incited the right

00:08:51.020 on January 6th.

00:08:52.320 They're not alleging

00:08:53.420 any force,

00:08:54.900 any violence,

00:08:55.720 any threats

00:08:56.280 of force or violence.

00:08:57.820 And they're not alleging

00:08:59.400 actual fraud.

00:09:00.740 They're not alleging

00:09:01.560 that Donald Trump

00:09:02.740 had Rudy Giuliani

00:09:04.340 tie up the real electors

00:09:06.040 and put them

00:09:06.520 in Rudy's trunk

00:09:07.440 and then gave

00:09:08.600 these fake electors

00:09:10.300 fake IDs

00:09:11.000 to go in

00:09:11.480 and pretend

00:09:11.820 like they were

00:09:12.340 the real electors.

00:09:14.040 What happens here

00:09:15.200 is what happens

00:09:16.040 in prior elections

00:09:17.080 is you contest elections

00:09:19.300 through the

00:09:19.820 Electoral Count Act

00:09:21.180 of 1887

00:09:22.620 and you twist arms

00:09:24.360 politically,

00:09:25.120 which is allowed

00:09:25.900 by the First Amendment.

00:09:27.680 And part of that

00:09:28.520 includes putting up

00:09:29.660 an alternate slate

00:09:31.080 of electors

00:09:32.000 in case you prevail

00:09:33.920 legally and politically

00:09:35.000 your people are in place 0.93

00:09:36.420 if you win

00:09:37.760 those legal

00:09:38.420 and political challenges

00:09:39.640 so you can win

00:09:41.120 the election.

00:09:41.980 And it might be

00:09:43.020 an ugly process.

00:09:45.180 You know,

00:09:45.460 it's not pretty,

00:09:47.300 but it might be unseemly,

00:09:48.700 but it's not a felony.

00:09:49.920 It's not illegal

00:09:50.620 to contest elections

00:09:53.280 in America.

00:09:54.220 It's only illegal

00:09:55.180 to contest elections

00:09:56.520 in third world

00:09:57.940 Marxist hellholes

00:09:58.900 like Zimbabwe 0.91

00:09:59.800 and now Washington,

00:10:01.540 D.C.

00:10:02.100 and Atlanta

00:10:02.660 and New York.

00:10:03.300 Before I bring in Dave,

00:10:05.260 a follow up for you,

00:10:06.180 Mike,

00:10:06.580 it's true that

00:10:07.940 the so-called fake electors

00:10:09.440 or alternate slates

00:10:10.620 of electors

00:10:11.300 were never,

00:10:12.940 you know,

00:10:13.720 no one showed up

00:10:14.420 in Washington saying,

00:10:15.480 Georgia votes

00:10:16.540 for Donald Trump.

00:10:17.540 You know,

00:10:17.680 no one was fooled.

00:10:18.520 It didn't actually,

00:10:19.060 but she's alleging

00:10:20.200 conspiracy to conspiracy

00:10:22.540 to get these

00:10:24.280 sort of fake electors

00:10:25.500 out there

00:10:26.100 and steal the vote

00:10:27.260 from Georgians,

00:10:28.180 which,

00:10:28.800 you know,

00:10:29.420 by itself would suggest,

00:10:30.820 okay,

00:10:31.120 it doesn't actually

00:10:31.820 have to be completed.

00:10:33.800 It's the act

00:10:35.100 of planning

00:10:35.800 and then you need

00:10:36.620 at least one overt act

00:10:37.600 in furtherance

00:10:38.300 of the conspiracy,

00:10:38.900 which she has

00:10:39.700 because she says

00:10:40.220 that they came up

00:10:40.800 with the names

00:10:41.260 and they created the slate.

00:10:42.500 So why do we care

00:10:43.940 as a legal matter

00:10:44.860 that no one

00:10:47.040 was actually fooled?

00:10:47.920 Well, Megan

00:10:49.780 and both Megan

00:10:50.980 and Dave,

00:10:51.740 you both know

00:10:52.680 that as lawyers

00:10:53.780 that in order

00:10:54.800 to have a conspiracy,

00:10:56.840 you have to be

00:10:58.580 doing something illegal.

00:10:59.800 You have to plan

00:11:01.360 with others

00:11:02.100 to do something illegal.

00:11:03.680 It's not illegal

00:11:04.660 to challenge elections.

00:11:06.200 It's actually permitted

00:11:07.900 by the Electoral

00:11:09.200 Count Act of 1887

00:11:10.840 and it's permitted

00:11:12.100 by the First Amendment.

00:11:13.260 So you'd have to show

00:11:14.080 that they can,

00:11:15.600 you'd have to show here

00:11:16.660 that President Trump

00:11:17.680 conspired to tie up

00:11:20.260 the real electors

00:11:21.120 and put them

00:11:21.560 in Rudy Giuliani's trunk

00:11:23.200 of his car

00:11:24.500 versus you,

00:11:26.440 you conspired

00:11:27.860 to put forward

00:11:29.360 an alternate slate

00:11:30.260 of electors,

00:11:30.900 which you're allowed

00:11:31.400 to do under

00:11:32.000 the Electoral Count Act

00:11:33.320 of 1887.

00:11:34.440 And we talked about

00:11:35.640 this the last time,

00:11:36.400 Dave,

00:11:36.620 that this was done.

00:11:38.160 It was done by Jack Kennedy,

00:11:40.020 you know,

00:11:40.900 decades ago saying,

00:11:42.820 I don't think

00:11:43.280 that we've come

00:11:43.780 to the right conclusion

00:11:44.620 in Hawaii.

00:11:45.820 I'm going to submit

00:11:46.780 my own alternate slate

00:11:48.300 of electors

00:11:48.820 giving me Hawaii's

00:11:49.920 electoral votes

00:11:50.700 because I believe

00:11:51.380 I actually won Hawaii

00:11:52.640 and he succeeded

00:11:54.500 in doing that.

00:11:55.400 And I guess it was

00:11:55.880 a good thing

00:11:56.400 that he had his,

00:11:57.220 quote,

00:11:57.320 fake slate of electors

00:11:58.400 or alternate slate

00:11:59.200 ready to go.

00:12:01.120 But it didn't turn out

00:12:02.120 that way for Trump.

00:12:03.220 And I,

00:12:03.900 you know,

00:12:04.000 he didn't prove

00:12:05.160 electoral fraud

00:12:06.100 that would have

00:12:06.600 gotten him

00:12:07.140 to state of Georgia

00:12:07.760 or any other state.

00:12:09.100 But just the mere act

00:12:10.760 of conspiring

00:12:11.660 was conspiring

00:12:12.380 is a scary word.

00:12:13.320 But to Mike's point,

00:12:15.100 it's not you.

00:12:16.600 The three of us

00:12:17.220 are conspiring

00:12:17.860 to do a good podcast

00:12:19.040 right now.

00:12:19.720 Like just getting together

00:12:20.960 and discussing

00:12:22.020 your plan to do something

00:12:23.240 is OK,

00:12:24.440 unless that what

00:12:25.300 you're going to do

00:12:25.960 is illegal.

00:12:27.120 And so this is

00:12:27.940 what we're trying

00:12:28.300 to get to.

00:12:28.660 Why is it illegal

00:12:29.460 just to have

00:12:30.240 an alternate slate

00:12:31.080 of electors?

00:12:31.600 Why is it illegal

00:12:32.340 to say I think I won?

00:12:33.540 Why is it illegal

00:12:34.140 to say I think

00:12:34.820 if you go back

00:12:35.240 and check the rolls,

00:12:36.100 you're going to find

00:12:36.860 fraudulent votes?

00:12:38.220 You know,

00:12:38.560 I want you to go back

00:12:39.460 and do that.

00:12:40.420 Why is all that illegal?

00:12:41.440 Well, first off,

00:12:43.540 it's good to be back

00:12:44.080 with you, Megan,

00:12:44.700 and with my friend, Mike.

00:12:46.840 It is not illegal

00:12:48.220 to have alternate electors,

00:12:50.960 the electors

00:12:51.540 that are there

00:12:52.400 in case the actual electors

00:12:54.440 are rejected.

00:12:55.360 In fact,

00:12:55.800 in two of the seven states,

00:12:57.720 they said,

00:12:58.620 we are doing this

00:12:59.880 just in case

00:13:00.580 you don't accept

00:13:02.060 the original electors.

00:13:03.220 And in those two states,

00:13:04.300 I think it's Pennsylvania

00:13:05.080 and New Mexico,

00:13:06.160 it is not a crime.

00:13:07.220 But the problem is

00:13:08.400 in the other five states,

00:13:09.520 including Georgia

00:13:10.220 and including Michigan,

00:13:11.440 these folks

00:13:12.620 were not the true electors

00:13:14.380 and represented themselves

00:13:15.680 as the true electors.

00:13:16.880 They even went so far

00:13:17.720 in Michigan as to say,

00:13:18.820 we met on this date

00:13:20.520 inside the Capitol.

00:13:22.080 And then they had

00:13:23.040 the seal of Michigan,

00:13:24.740 which was forged.

00:13:25.740 And so that's a crime.

00:13:26.720 It's a crime in Georgia, 1.00

00:13:27.660 too.

00:13:27.960 Forgery is a crime

00:13:29.000 and making false statements

00:13:30.720 to government officials

00:13:31.560 is a crime.

00:13:32.620 And that's where

00:13:33.680 they got them.

00:13:34.860 Now,

00:13:34.960 as far as whether Trump

00:13:36.180 was involved.

00:13:36.660 Just before you leave

00:13:37.400 that point.

00:13:37.880 And then what did they do?

00:13:38.620 So they got together

00:13:39.520 and they said,

00:13:40.440 we're the real electors

00:13:42.260 and we'd say

00:13:43.180 Donald Trump won.

00:13:44.300 And then what happened?

00:13:45.440 Like,

00:13:45.560 to whom did they say that?

00:13:46.920 How did that become

00:13:48.380 public and notorious?

00:13:50.460 You know,

00:13:50.840 if they just sat

00:13:51.420 in somebody's bedroom

00:13:52.140 and said,

00:13:52.540 yeah,

00:13:53.180 I mean,

00:13:53.860 the three of us

00:13:54.620 could be like,

00:13:55.060 we're the real electors

00:13:56.260 and we're voting

00:13:56.900 for RFKJ,

00:13:58.160 whatever.

00:13:58.780 What happened

00:13:59.460 after they got together

00:14:00.280 and said,

00:14:00.600 we're the real ones?

00:14:01.340 they sent

00:14:03.580 the fake document

00:14:05.960 to Washington,

00:14:08.340 D.C.

00:14:08.640 to be counted.

00:14:09.740 And that's the problem.

00:14:10.600 It was given to Mike Pence

00:14:11.760 and he rejected it.

00:14:13.800 But the hope was

00:14:14.740 that he would have

00:14:15.680 two slates

00:14:16.360 and then that would give him

00:14:17.660 a reason

00:14:19.120 to send it back

00:14:20.280 to the states.

00:14:20.940 It was all part

00:14:21.640 of a scheme

00:14:22.960 to try to influence

00:14:24.940 Mike Pence

00:14:25.520 to send it back

00:14:26.280 to the states

00:14:26.700 when that would have

00:14:29.300 been improper

00:14:29.960 because first,

00:14:31.440 there was no

00:14:32.160 election fraud

00:14:33.440 that was documented.

00:14:35.520 And number two,

00:14:36.560 the electors

00:14:37.320 were not alternate electors,

00:14:39.400 but they're trying

00:14:40.260 to make it seem

00:14:41.180 like they're the real ones

00:14:42.220 and that's the problem here.

00:14:43.680 And then on top

00:14:44.340 of all that,

00:14:45.300 the comments

00:14:46.100 that made to Mike Pence,

00:14:47.560 you know,

00:14:47.880 that you're too honest

00:14:48.720 and all that stuff,

00:14:49.300 that's at the federal level.

00:14:51.020 Here, Megan,

00:14:52.240 this is where

00:14:53.020 I think this case

00:14:54.000 is stronger

00:14:54.580 than Jack Smith's case

00:14:55.800 because when it comes

00:14:56.660 to enforcing election laws,

00:14:58.740 it's really a state

00:14:59.920 function more

00:15:00.940 than a federal function.

00:15:02.720 And that's why

00:15:03.340 you correctly said

00:15:04.720 and Mike said

00:15:05.320 that some of the laws

00:15:06.200 that Jack Smith

00:15:07.440 were using

00:15:08.160 may get some

00:15:09.340 pushback in the courts,

00:15:10.720 obstruction of an

00:15:11.420 official proceeding,

00:15:12.820 conspiracy to fraud

00:15:13.940 the United States.

00:15:14.720 But here at the state level,

00:15:15.900 it's different.

00:15:16.480 They're using forgery.

00:15:18.020 They're using improper

00:15:19.300 influence of an election

00:15:20.480 official,

00:15:21.560 conspiracy to commit

00:15:23.100 election fraud.

00:15:23.940 These are state crimes

00:15:25.040 much easier to prove

00:15:26.460 at the state level.

00:15:27.580 And then you have RICO,

00:15:28.440 which we can get into also,

00:15:29.560 which is a prosecutor's

00:15:30.940 best friend

00:15:31.640 and a bane

00:15:32.720 to the existence

00:15:33.380 of defense lawyers.

00:15:34.880 I agree with everything

00:15:35.460 you just said

00:15:35.900 on the back end there.

00:15:36.780 I mean,

00:15:37.100 he's right about

00:15:37.700 all that, Mike, right?

00:15:38.460 It's it's state elections

00:15:40.040 are normally handled

00:15:40.720 by state law.

00:15:41.700 I mean,

00:15:42.100 it's one of the reasons

00:15:42.860 the Jack Smith indictment

00:15:43.900 on J6 is so weird

00:15:45.260 and off point

00:15:46.400 and such a reach.

00:15:47.960 So, yes,

00:15:48.540 they are normally

00:15:49.160 governed by state law

00:15:50.140 and RICO

00:15:50.660 is a defendant's

00:15:52.240 worst nightmare.

00:15:53.500 And this Fannie Willis

00:15:54.520 loves to use RICO,

00:15:56.140 the racketeering law

00:15:57.020 that usually gets

00:15:57.840 gets a mobster

00:15:58.900 so you can get

00:15:59.280 the mob boss

00:16:00.160 and you can get

00:16:01.100 the hit man

00:16:01.880 and you can get

00:16:02.760 the dime store drop guy.

00:16:04.660 You know,

00:16:04.780 you can get them all

00:16:05.620 under this sort of

00:16:07.040 racketeering and corrupt

00:16:08.080 influence statute.

00:16:09.140 But he's right about

00:16:10.500 the law

00:16:10.920 and that this should be

00:16:11.560 an easier go for her.

00:16:12.720 But she still has to show.

00:16:14.280 I mean,

00:16:14.420 the mob boss,

00:16:15.720 you know,

00:16:16.420 shaking down

00:16:17.320 the 7-Eleven worker

00:16:18.620 to pay you protection money

00:16:20.100 is very clearly a crime.

00:16:21.880 So it does matter

00:16:23.460 to your point earlier.

00:16:24.400 What is the alleged

00:16:26.120 conspiracy here doing

00:16:27.580 that's unlawful?

00:16:28.720 I see the point

00:16:30.020 on the fake electors.

00:16:31.120 OK,

00:16:31.300 maybe sending the fake

00:16:32.340 electors there

00:16:33.080 and them representing

00:16:34.680 that they're the real ones.

00:16:35.960 Maybe we're closer.

00:16:37.280 But like Trump

00:16:37.940 just on the phone call

00:16:38.940 saying,

00:16:39.400 check the signatures,

00:16:40.660 you're going to find

00:16:41.380 hundreds of thousands

00:16:42.200 of fraudulent votes.

00:16:43.500 How is that?

00:16:44.140 That's Stacey Abrams 2.0. 0.98

00:16:47.460 Well,

00:16:47.960 first,

00:16:48.240 I would say that

00:16:49.040 actually,

00:16:49.400 if you look

00:16:50.140 at the Constitution,

00:16:52.000 at the elections

00:16:52.780 clause of the Constitution,

00:16:55.420 the states have,

00:16:57.460 both of you

00:16:58.520 are absolutely right.

00:16:59.480 The states have

00:17:00.560 a lot of leeway

00:17:01.880 to set their own

00:17:02.740 election laws

00:17:03.540 for federal elections

00:17:05.140 and less Congress acts.

00:17:07.100 And Congress acted here

00:17:08.400 with the Electoral Count Act

00:17:10.340 of 1887.

00:17:11.520 So that is

00:17:12.080 the supreme law

00:17:14.180 of the land.

00:17:14.700 That trumps

00:17:15.200 any of these state laws.

00:17:16.340 And so if you look

00:17:17.000 at the process

00:17:18.160 and procedures

00:17:19.140 for certifying

00:17:21.000 an election

00:17:21.540 before Congress

00:17:22.840 on January 6th,

00:17:23.800 that's controlled

00:17:24.320 by the Electoral Count Act

00:17:25.700 of 1887.

00:17:27.320 So I would

00:17:27.680 say that point.

00:17:30.320 And so,

00:17:31.120 you know,

00:17:31.660 I actually think

00:17:32.840 that this is a laughable

00:17:33.900 case down in Georgia

00:17:36.180 because it is

00:17:37.760 ignoring that

00:17:38.540 and it's trying

00:17:39.080 to criminalize

00:17:40.300 the political process.

00:17:42.320 It's trying

00:17:42.940 to politicize,

00:17:44.420 it's trying

00:17:44.760 to criminalize

00:17:46.540 making legal

00:17:47.520 and political

00:17:48.280 challenges

00:17:49.420 under the Electoral

00:17:50.740 Count Act

00:17:51.580 of 1887

00:17:52.880 by using

00:17:53.620 a novel,

00:17:55.320 I wouldn't say

00:17:55.920 bizarre,

00:17:56.860 but to be kind,

00:17:57.740 I'll say a novel

00:17:58.460 legal theory

00:17:59.420 here by Fannie Willis

00:18:01.180 charging

00:18:03.300 a RICO 0.76

00:18:04.420 violation

00:18:05.100 and,

00:18:05.520 you know,

00:18:05.880 an organized crime

00:18:06.740 conspiracy

00:18:07.460 to go after

00:18:08.640 your political

00:18:09.240 opponents,

00:18:10.160 the leading

00:18:10.740 presidential candidate

00:18:11.840 and 18 of his

00:18:13.300 lawyers and advisors

00:18:14.760 because you don't

00:18:16.280 like their legal

00:18:17.040 theory,

00:18:17.600 right?

00:18:18.040 That's not how

00:18:19.460 it works in America

00:18:20.600 up until now.

00:18:22.100 It used to not

00:18:22.680 be a crime

00:18:23.380 to challenge

00:18:24.400 elections.

00:18:25.120 It used to be,

00:18:26.100 it used to not

00:18:26.700 be a crime

00:18:27.300 to even bring

00:18:28.440 novel,

00:18:29.220 even wacky

00:18:29.860 legal theories.

00:18:31.640 You know,

00:18:31.800 what's weird,

00:18:32.320 Dave,

00:18:32.520 is if you take

00:18:33.240 a look at

00:18:33.580 the nitty-gritty

00:18:34.060 of this thing,

00:18:34.720 you got Mark Meadows,

00:18:36.280 Trump's former

00:18:36.800 chief of staff,

00:18:38.000 who was granted

00:18:38.480 federal immunity

00:18:39.160 to cooperate

00:18:39.960 in the

00:18:40.420 Jack Smith

00:18:40.820 investigation,

00:18:42.240 not indicted

00:18:43.440 in that case,

00:18:44.720 indicted

00:18:45.160 in this case.

00:18:47.020 And as far

00:18:47.680 as I can tell,

00:18:48.680 his alleged crime

00:18:49.740 is he called

00:18:51.180 somebody to say,

00:18:52.700 hey,

00:18:52.820 can you give me

00:18:53.420 the number

00:18:54.060 of some

00:18:54.740 local official

00:18:56.080 in Pennsylvania

00:18:56.920 where Trump

00:18:57.660 was doing

00:18:58.100 similar stuff,

00:18:59.020 trying to contest

00:18:59.600 the vote there?

00:19:00.420 I mean,

00:19:00.600 he was reaching

00:19:01.440 out to somebody

00:19:02.100 for a phone number.

00:19:03.440 How is that a crime?

00:19:04.720 This is nuts.

00:19:06.140 It smacks

00:19:07.000 of overreach.

00:19:07.780 Well,

00:19:09.720 conspiracy laws

00:19:10.440 are broad.

00:19:11.200 If you engage

00:19:12.380 in an illegal

00:19:13.580 conspiracy,

00:19:14.420 in this case,

00:19:15.240 it's to interfere

00:19:16.600 with election

00:19:17.040 officials,

00:19:17.780 in this case,

00:19:18.600 it's to commit

00:19:20.100 election fraud,

00:19:21.460 then all you have

00:19:22.180 to be part

00:19:22.720 of the agreement,

00:19:23.660 and then one member

00:19:24.760 of the conspiracy

00:19:25.520 has to commit

00:19:26.300 an overt act,

00:19:27.320 and then you're

00:19:27.740 all done.

00:19:29.060 And racketeering

00:19:30.000 is even broader

00:19:31.340 than that,

00:19:31.860 where you can bring

00:19:32.460 in the boss,

00:19:33.180 in this case,

00:19:33.780 Donald Trump,

00:19:34.380 and you can get

00:19:35.760 him,

00:19:36.120 even if he's

00:19:36.960 not the one

00:19:37.440 who ordered

00:19:37.880 something to happen,

00:19:38.820 even if he's

00:19:39.460 unaware of some

00:19:40.900 of the actions

00:19:41.480 of people

00:19:41.960 who are there

00:19:42.480 for the common

00:19:43.060 enterprise,

00:19:44.020 he could be

00:19:44.440 brought in,

00:19:44.940 and that's why

00:19:45.680 the RICO laws

00:19:47.020 frustrate so many

00:19:48.020 defense lawyers.

00:19:49.080 And on Mark Meadows,

00:19:49.900 I thought it was

00:19:50.400 really interesting

00:19:51.040 that they included

00:19:52.000 him in the indictment

00:19:53.340 because of what

00:19:54.400 you said.

00:19:55.360 He was given

00:19:55.900 immunity,

00:19:56.460 apparently,

00:19:56.840 at the federal level,

00:19:57.620 and I think

00:19:58.020 that's going to

00:19:58.820 create some issues

00:19:59.960 with his prosecution

00:20:01.400 at the state level,

00:20:02.160 unless he was

00:20:03.320 hiding stuff

00:20:04.020 from Jack Smith

00:20:04.720 and then he's

00:20:05.980 got some real

00:20:06.460 problems.

00:20:07.040 But it shows you

00:20:07.820 the breadth

00:20:08.320 of this indictment

00:20:09.120 that they included

00:20:09.740 Mark Meadows

00:20:10.360 and they included

00:20:10.960 names in their

00:20:12.120 19 defendants

00:20:13.540 that we've never

00:20:14.000 even heard before.

00:20:15.340 And so this is

00:20:16.000 different than

00:20:17.560 what Jack Smith did.

00:20:18.560 Jack Smith had

00:20:19.040 a limited,

00:20:19.940 modest indictment.

00:20:21.400 He just went

00:20:22.280 after charges

00:20:23.400 he thought he could

00:20:24.120 prove beyond a

00:20:24.780 reasonable doubt

00:20:25.380 and he was built

00:20:26.540 for speed.

00:20:27.360 He wants this

00:20:27.960 to be done

00:20:28.420 before the election.

00:20:29.640 I agree with you.

00:20:30.520 I don't think

00:20:30.940 this can be done

00:20:31.780 all at once

00:20:32.780 and I don't

00:20:33.320 think it can be

00:20:33.820 done before

00:20:34.360 the election

00:20:34.860 because Fannie 0.71

00:20:35.600 Willis decided

00:20:36.280 to take a

00:20:37.080 blowtorch to it

00:20:38.000 and look,

00:20:38.940 it's a powerful

00:20:39.420 case,

00:20:40.300 but I think

00:20:40.840 this is going

00:20:41.360 to take a while.

00:20:43.100 And Mike,

00:20:43.320 I want to ask

00:20:44.260 you,

00:20:45.140 so you've already

00:20:45.820 gotten,

00:20:46.320 I mean,

00:20:46.480 I mentioned

00:20:46.760 Stacey Abrams

00:20:47.980 in my question

00:20:50.140 a minute ago.

00:20:51.280 Stacey Abrams

00:20:52.120 just went back

00:20:53.120 just to look

00:20:53.760 at it for fun.

00:20:56.160 After she lost

00:20:57.000 the 2018 Georgia

00:20:58.060 gubernatorial race,

00:20:59.000 she refused

00:21:00.620 to concede

00:21:01.220 to Brian Kemp

00:21:02.640 who is the

00:21:03.440 sitting governor

00:21:03.920 of Georgia

00:21:04.440 and said

00:21:05.880 we had this

00:21:06.820 little election

00:21:07.380 back in 2018

00:21:08.200 the following year

00:21:08.900 she said this

00:21:09.380 despite the final

00:21:10.200 tally and the

00:21:10.900 inauguration

00:21:11.520 and the situation

00:21:12.580 we find ourselves

00:21:13.220 in.

00:21:13.600 I do have one

00:21:14.220 very affirmative

00:21:14.840 statement to make.

00:21:16.020 We won

00:21:16.640 on several occasions.

00:21:18.160 She claimed she

00:21:18.640 had won

00:21:19.080 and she was proud

00:21:20.440 that she hadn't

00:21:21.080 conceded.

00:21:22.460 She was saying

00:21:23.320 that the Republicans

00:21:24.000 had suppressed

00:21:25.140 the black vote

00:21:26.240 and that

00:21:26.980 didn't get

00:21:28.240 indicted.

00:21:29.000 She did not

00:21:29.420 get indicted

00:21:29.880 and that reminds

00:21:31.080 me of another

00:21:31.740 election denier. 1.00

00:21:33.060 I mean you could

00:21:33.360 go through the list

00:21:33.940 because there are

00:21:34.760 all these memes

00:21:35.480 online showing

00:21:36.760 all the Democrats

00:21:37.420 who have denied

00:21:38.020 elections in particular

00:21:39.360 Donald Trump's win.

00:21:40.600 Chief among them

00:21:41.720 Hillary Clinton.

00:21:43.600 How many times

00:21:44.440 did she say

00:21:45.240 he was not

00:21:46.500 a legitimate president

00:21:47.620 that she actually

00:21:48.880 won the 2016

00:21:50.040 election

00:21:50.620 and then

00:21:52.160 you had

00:21:53.020 this exchange

00:21:53.980 last night.

00:21:56.640 Rachel Maddow

00:21:57.740 has her on 1.00

00:21:59.100 and the

00:22:00.260 do we have

00:22:00.840 the soundbite

00:22:01.280 you guys

00:22:01.560 that I just

00:22:02.000 asked for

00:22:02.420 where Rachel

00:22:03.500 Maddow

00:22:05.120 tosses to Hillary

00:22:06.300 listen to how

00:22:07.900 she sets it up

00:22:08.900 and to the

00:22:09.880 quick Hillary 0.99

00:22:10.360 response.

00:22:11.080 It's unbelievable.

00:22:11.900 If we no longer

00:22:13.720 believe that our

00:22:15.020 will is

00:22:15.940 effectuated

00:22:16.640 through the

00:22:17.080 system

00:22:17.420 if bad

00:22:18.980 actors tell

00:22:19.980 us falsely

00:22:20.740 that every

00:22:21.120 election is

00:22:21.720 stolen

00:22:22.060 and that the

00:22:22.920 only way an

00:22:23.520 election is

00:22:24.640 trustworthy is

00:22:26.360 if they come

00:22:26.920 out on top

00:22:27.700 of it

00:22:28.040 then something

00:22:29.740 it tells you

00:22:31.120 something not

00:22:31.540 just about that

00:22:32.140 person or that

00:22:32.860 moment

00:22:33.260 it maybe

00:22:34.920 wounds us

00:22:35.760 as a democracy

00:22:36.580 and in a way

00:22:37.420 that is hard

00:22:37.980 to repair.

00:22:38.940 Well I think

00:22:39.840 you know

00:22:40.800 the truth

00:22:41.240 matters.

00:22:42.480 So like the

00:22:43.680 lack of self

00:22:44.780 awareness in that

00:22:45.640 Rachel Maddow

00:22:46.200 question Mike

00:22:46.860 right?

00:22:47.800 How could we

00:22:48.260 possibly have

00:22:48.920 these elections

00:22:49.420 where someone's

00:22:49.940 challenging them

00:22:50.720 out all the

00:22:51.120 time and

00:22:51.520 questioning

00:22:51.860 truth?

00:22:53.200 This

00:22:53.720 I'm gonna

00:22:56.460 my head is

00:22:57.000 gonna explode. 0.62

00:22:57.900 It goes to

00:22:58.600 what we're

00:22:58.920 discussing.

00:22:59.760 Hillary Clinton

00:23:00.360 is an election

00:23:00.980 denier.

00:23:01.580 Stacey Abrams

00:23:02.340 is an election

00:23:02.940 denier.

00:23:03.720 Joe Lieberman

00:23:04.380 is an election

00:23:04.860 denier.

00:23:05.300 Al Gore

00:23:05.860 is an election

00:23:06.360 denier.

00:23:06.840 We could go

00:23:07.120 down the list

00:23:07.700 of the

00:23:08.000 candidates

00:23:08.360 who've

00:23:09.240 lost

00:23:09.800 who've

00:23:10.480 spent

00:23:10.760 months

00:23:11.280 and

00:23:11.560 years

00:23:12.080 saying

00:23:12.500 it's

00:23:12.760 not

00:23:13.060 true

00:23:13.420 I

00:23:13.760 won.

00:23:14.520 Only

00:23:15.040 Donald

00:23:15.460 Trump

00:23:15.840 gets

00:23:16.360 his

00:23:16.840 behavior

00:23:17.280 and

00:23:17.460 questions

00:23:17.920 criminalized.

00:23:20.540 Yeah I would

00:23:21.580 say if there

00:23:22.260 is a God

00:23:23.180 he will make

00:23:24.420 sure that

00:23:25.440 Joe Biden

00:23:26.080 steps aside

00:23:26.940 for 2024

00:23:27.760 and the

00:23:28.900 Democrats

00:23:29.480 nominate

00:23:31.240 Hillary Clinton

00:23:32.100 again for

00:23:33.180 their Democrat

00:23:34.200 presidential

00:23:34.860 nominee.

00:23:35.360 her statements

00:23:38.620 are just

00:23:39.160 mind-blowing

00:23:41.100 that she

00:23:41.540 doesn't sit

00:23:42.540 there and

00:23:43.080 say that

00:23:44.260 she sits

00:23:44.760 there and

00:23:45.140 trashes

00:23:45.760 Trump

00:23:46.400 for saying

00:23:49.200 that the

00:23:49.580 election was

00:23:50.240 stolen when

00:23:51.300 she has

00:23:51.800 maintained this

00:23:54.160 position since

00:23:55.680 2016.

00:23:56.860 She actually

00:23:57.420 falsely

00:23:59.740 alleged that

00:24:00.620 Trump colluded

00:24:02.060 with the

00:24:02.760 Russians to

00:24:04.120 steal her 0.99

00:24:04.740 election which

00:24:05.660 led to the

00:24:06.920 Mueller probe

00:24:07.960 and three

00:24:08.640 years of

00:24:09.340 hell for

00:24:10.360 President Trump

00:24:11.220 and his top

00:24:11.820 aides that

00:24:12.840 hobbled his

00:24:13.600 presidency.

00:24:14.500 It's just so

00:24:15.580 rich that

00:24:16.660 Rachel Maddow

00:24:17.420 would have the

00:24:18.220 biggest election

00:24:19.080 denier of all

00:24:20.100 time Hillary

00:24:21.220 Clinton on her

00:24:21.980 show.

00:24:22.980 Dave that

00:24:24.220 soundbite ends

00:24:25.220 after Rachel

00:24:25.940 Maddow goes on

00:24:26.920 about you know

00:24:27.560 you can't have

00:24:28.260 people denying

00:24:28.880 elections all

00:24:30.380 the time just

00:24:30.900 because they

00:24:31.280 lost it ends

00:24:32.500 with Hillary

00:24:32.960 Clinton saying

00:24:33.680 the truth

00:24:35.040 matters the

00:24:36.620 truth Matt

00:24:37.880 oh my god

00:24:38.940 that's what I

00:24:39.720 have to say to

00:24:40.160 her what are

00:24:40.800 you what are

00:24:41.120 you saying so

00:24:42.240 many lies so

00:24:43.180 much dishonesty

00:24:43.820 coming at me

00:24:44.460 like I can't

00:24:45.940 I'm overwhelmed

00:24:47.060 this is why

00:24:48.020 people are so

00:24:48.540 angry about this

00:24:49.440 nonsense Dave you

00:24:50.340 know you get it I 0.89

00:24:51.240 know you're a

00:24:51.680 Democrat you're a

00:24:52.660 prosecutor but

00:24:53.900 the absurdity right

00:24:55.240 that she totally

00:24:56.020 got away with all

00:24:57.040 the same stuff

00:24:58.020 including scrubbing

00:24:59.240 the server

00:24:59.880 defying a

00:25:01.200 subpoena and

00:25:02.420 now we have to

00:25:03.060 listen to her on

00:25:03.720 Rachel Maddow

00:25:04.380 trying to lecture

00:25:05.000 us as she

00:25:05.540 giggles about the

00:25:06.400 truth I can't

00:25:08.040 okay well

00:25:10.160 Megan uh first

00:25:11.160 it's good to be

00:25:11.620 back sorry about

00:25:12.260 that I think that

00:25:12.820 was Mike somehow

00:25:13.820 pulled the plug on

00:25:14.660 my computer I

00:25:15.380 know how you did

00:25:15.840 that Mike

00:25:16.320 just power I'm

00:25:18.120 tired I'm tired

00:25:18.340 of you beating

00:25:18.840 me up on air so

00:25:19.820 I pulled the

00:25:20.320 plug well you

00:25:22.980 know uh what

00:25:23.480 was interesting

00:25:23.840 about that

00:25:24.220 interview last

00:25:24.820 night uh Megan

00:25:25.840 and Mike was

00:25:26.340 that it was

00:25:26.820 scheduled way in

00:25:27.620 advance it was

00:25:28.240 just a coincidence

00:25:28.860 that she was on

00:25:29.740 the night of

00:25:30.380 the indictment

00:25:31.040 and uh look

00:25:32.580 I understand where

00:25:34.220 you're coming from

00:25:34.740 on this but keep

00:25:36.140 in mind Jack

00:25:37.220 Smith is the one 0.93

00:25:37.720 who said this this

00:25:38.320 is not about

00:25:38.840 words but actions

00:25:40.500 and so in this

00:25:41.540 case it's different

00:25:42.840 than Hillary Clinton 1.00

00:25:43.560 saying the you know

00:25:45.660 the election was

00:25:46.220 stolen or anything

00:25:47.040 like that this is

00:25:48.360 about their fake

00:25:49.520 electors um this is

00:25:51.040 about illegally

00:25:51.860 pressuring Ruby 0.99

00:25:52.800 Freeman who's an 0.64

00:25:53.660 election worker for

00:25:55.060 being part of fraud

00:25:56.700 which led to death

00:25:57.620 threats against her

00:25:58.240 this is the

00:25:58.940 unlawful accessing

00:26:00.040 of voting machines

00:26:01.020 breaking into

00:26:01.700 computers I mean

00:26:03.160 and then there's

00:26:03.960 the obstruction on

00:26:04.680 the cover of the

00:26:05.340 perjury so this is

00:26:06.840 more than just

00:26:07.640 Democrats saying hey

00:26:08.800 we don't like the

00:26:09.440 results of the

00:26:09.960 election these are

00:26:10.880 actions that are

00:26:11.840 crimes in the state

00:26:12.680 of Georgia

00:26:13.160 Mike the thing with

00:26:15.420 Ruby Freeman uh that 0.98

00:26:16.540 she was alleged by

00:26:17.380 team Trump and I

00:26:18.160 think maybe Trump

00:26:18.780 himself as being a

00:26:20.440 ne'er-do-well when

00:26:21.280 it came to the

00:26:21.960 manipulation of votes

00:26:22.980 and she's got a 0.99

00:26:24.080 defamation lawsuit

00:26:25.240 going right now

00:26:26.160 against Rudy Giuliani

00:26:27.180 in which he admitted

00:26:28.060 that he said false

00:26:28.760 things um but that's

00:26:30.580 in my view how the

00:26:31.620 law handles misstatements

00:26:33.060 about an individual

00:26:33.760 that are defamatory

00:26:34.740 like you don't

00:26:36.160 rico it and sue

00:26:38.300 19 or you know

00:26:40.060 indict 19 people and

00:26:41.540 try to criminalize it

00:26:42.980 and while okay the

00:26:44.640 fake electors thing is

00:26:45.800 an unusual thing as

00:26:46.740 I point out it's been

00:26:48.200 done before maybe not

00:26:49.280 in this exact way but

00:26:50.380 it's been done before

00:26:51.200 by presidential

00:26:52.260 candidates um so

00:26:54.040 what are we down to

00:26:54.760 the the false

00:26:55.700 accessing of voter

00:26:57.140 data that the local

00:26:58.820 official opened the

00:26:59.820 door invited them in

00:27:01.080 and allowed them

00:27:01.820 access how is that a

00:27:03.600 crime for those who

00:27:04.860 were invited in and

00:27:06.140 provided the access

00:27:07.100 who were trying to

00:27:07.760 like by the way those

00:27:08.900 people were not named

00:27:09.620 Donald Trump like if

00:27:10.840 you go through it

00:27:11.400 piece by piece there

00:27:12.620 are real defenses to

00:27:13.600 all this stuff Mike

00:27:14.500 but that's why Fannie

00:27:15.560 Willis is like let me

00:27:16.820 give you 40 different

00:27:17.880 acts and say they're

00:27:19.400 all maybe individually

00:27:21.040 they're problematic

00:27:21.840 or maybe not but if

00:27:22.980 you look at the

00:27:23.500 totality what you 0.99

00:27:24.960 have is a stinky 0.98

00:27:25.800 election crime yeah 0.98

00:27:27.980 I mean it's like she

00:27:28.880 just put together

00:27:29.520 this legal stew and

00:27:31.900 then she just threw 1.00

00:27:32.640 it all over the wall

00:27:33.460 and called it her

00:27:34.300 indictment I we have

00:27:35.660 to be precise here on

00:27:36.980 the conspiracy what

00:27:38.220 conspiracy everyone

00:27:40.180 has to agree to an

00:27:41.400 unlawful end what is

00:27:43.660 the unlawful end that

00:27:44.760 they're all agreeing to

00:27:45.740 accomplish here and

00:27:46.500 that's the problem with

00:27:48.060 this and steal the

00:27:49.040 election that's what

00:27:49.860 Fannie would say

00:27:51.040 so okay so but what

00:27:52.080 specifically is it what

00:27:53.420 specifically are they

00:27:54.980 agreeing to do because

00:27:55.960 I don't think stealing

00:27:57.060 an election is is in

00:27:58.840 the Georgia criminal

00:27:59.760 statute what's the

00:28:00.860 specific crime that

00:28:02.500 they're alleged to have

00:28:03.500 conspired to accomplish

00:28:05.160 and that that is the

00:28:06.460 problem what what did

00:28:07.760 what did what did what

00:28:08.540 did they all agree that

00:28:09.920 they were going to go do

00:28:10.660 that was illegal

00:28:11.300 yeah no I mean we

00:28:15.360 covered it like she's

00:28:16.360 going to say you

00:28:16.860 subverted the voting the

00:28:18.180 the will of the people

00:28:18.900 that you know they

00:28:19.740 cast votes in the same

00:28:21.180 way that Republicans

00:28:21.780 would be outraged if

00:28:23.480 Joe Biden tried this

00:28:24.420 nonsense were he to lose

00:28:25.500 in 2024 the people of

00:28:27.320 Georgia should be 1.00

00:28:28.240 outraged that their vote

00:28:29.160 was almost subverted

00:28:29.940 thanks to this scheme

00:28:31.120 that was not backed up

00:28:32.060 by actual proof in court

00:28:32.960 but let's talk about the

00:28:34.400 logistics of it for a

00:28:35.300 minute Dave so she we

00:28:36.940 just there there's

00:28:37.820 another case a big

00:28:38.820 criminal case who's

00:28:39.600 that's before the chief

00:28:40.560 judge right now in

00:28:42.040 Georgia in again this is

00:28:43.380 state court it was

00:28:44.760 filed in May of 2020 and

00:28:46.380 it's a Rico case it's a

00:28:47.580 criminal Rico case like

00:28:48.700 this one filed in May of

00:28:50.500 2022 and they began

00:28:53.100 picking a jury on

00:28:54.360 January 2nd of this

00:28:55.560 year so that's eight

00:28:57.060 months ago they're still

00:28:59.160 picking a jury eight

00:29:01.800 months later and this is

00:29:03.100 a case in which 17

00:29:04.260 defendants have been

00:29:05.060 named very similar on

00:29:07.020 its you know face to

00:29:08.500 this one you got 17

00:29:09.300 defense you got criminal

00:29:10.140 Rico and it they began

00:29:12.280 picking the jury eight

00:29:12.980 months ago still haven't

00:29:13.860 even finished that there's

00:29:15.160 no way this case gets

00:29:16.700 tried in six months

00:29:18.440 oh I completely agree

00:29:20.820 with you I think that

00:29:21.920 was just aspirational as

00:29:24.240 they like to say

00:29:25.140 especially because you

00:29:26.940 have 19 defendants you

00:29:29.280 have 41 counts now keep

00:29:31.580 in mind that case that

00:29:32.920 she had against the

00:29:33.700 teachers of the which

00:29:35.840 was a Rico case that

00:29:37.400 trial took eight months

00:29:38.700 so there's no way they're

00:29:39.780 getting this done in in

00:29:41.580 the next six months and I

00:29:42.720 don't think there's a

00:29:43.320 chance they can get this

00:29:44.140 done before the 2024

00:29:45.780 election the only chance

00:29:47.060 is if they somehow

00:29:48.340 separate Donald Trump

00:29:50.000 but you know Jack Smith

00:29:51.100 did that on purpose and

00:29:52.080 he's going to get his

00:29:52.960 trial sooner than later

00:29:54.100 but she indicted 19

00:29:55.960 people so don't expect

00:29:57.640 this to go anytime soon

00:29:58.820 now the thing that she

00:29:59.640 has on her side though is 0.98

00:30:00.720 time unlike Jack Smith

00:30:02.600 the indictment that she

00:30:04.080 has is pardon proof she

00:30:06.480 does not have to worry

00:30:07.340 about a future Department

00:30:08.300 of Justice just dumping

00:30:10.020 this case because they

00:30:11.400 have no control over state

00:30:12.460 cases and the future

00:30:14.160 president cannot pardon

00:30:15.320 anyone here and the

00:30:16.960 governor of Georgia

00:30:17.740 cannot pardon anyone for

00:30:19.200 these crimes and so she

00:30:21.240 has a luxury of time on

00:30:22.600 her side and she's going 0.85

00:30:23.780 to need it because this is

00:30:24.860 a complex case is going to

00:30:25.980 take a while this one to

00:30:28.220 me Mike I mean the Jack

00:30:29.220 Smith stuff does feel like

00:30:30.300 election interference to me

00:30:31.840 but this one feels more

00:30:34.420 like I want Donald Trump

00:30:36.560 in jail he's going to jail

00:30:39.220 thanks to me Ms. Willis I

00:30:42.080 mean the odds are good I

00:30:44.400 think that she will get a

00:30:45.420 conviction in Georgia I

00:30:47.800 don't know I guess Georgia

00:30:49.000 is a little bit more

00:30:49.720 purple it's not like a blue

00:30:51.760 entirely blue district like

00:30:53.660 Washington DC but I feel

00:30:56.040 like she's she's got a good

00:30:58.480 chance and if she does

00:31:00.220 convict him there's a

00:31:01.120 mandatory five-year

00:31:02.200 sentence on the Rico count

00:31:03.780 alone so how do you see

00:31:06.120 Trump's chances here I mean

00:31:08.600 it's obvious you have a

00:31:09.640 Democrat prosecutor you're

00:31:12.420 going to have a Democrat

00:31:13.100 jury it's it's you know

00:31:15.240 it's not going to be as bad

00:31:17.420 as DC or New York with the

00:31:19.640 Democrat prosecutor

00:31:20.660 Democrat judge

00:31:21.720 Democrat jury but if if they

00:31:24.120 can get past the legal

00:31:26.100 challenges of this case then

00:31:28.880 I think that there's a there's

00:31:30.960 a there's a very good chance

00:31:32.780 that the jury is going to find

00:31:34.220 him guilty and the judge will

00:31:35.360 convict him the problem is

00:31:36.560 that the legal challenges I

00:31:38.440 think President Trump should

00:31:40.200 file a motion to dismiss this

00:31:42.620 case and bring up two

00:31:44.540 different legal arguments that

00:31:45.960 I think are compelling number

00:31:47.220 one is presidential immunity

00:31:48.960 this is the the the enforcement

00:31:53.920 of federal election laws the

00:31:55.660 electoral count act of 1887 is

00:31:58.260 certainly within the outer

00:31:59.580 bounds of his duties as the

00:32:01.580 president of the United States

00:32:02.840 and if you look at the case

00:32:03.840 law you can't bring civil you

00:32:07.320 can't bring civil cases against

00:32:08.980 a president for exercising his

00:32:10.700 official duties at the outer

00:32:12.120 bounds so why could you bring

00:32:14.240 criminal cases against the

00:32:15.780 president for for exercising his

00:32:17.920 official duties at the outer

00:32:19.740 bounds and then if it's not

00:32:21.540 within his official capacity and

00:32:23.100 by the way if you can if you can

00:32:25.220 on presidential immunity that's

00:32:27.180 immediately appeal appealable you

00:32:29.200 can get interlocutory appeal

00:32:31.140 including all the way to the

00:32:32.300 Supreme Court of the United

00:32:33.360 States alternatively you

00:32:36.380 could say if he's acting

00:32:37.200 within his personal capacity

00:32:38.680 you can say that there's a

00:32:40.700 First Amendment problem here 0.55

00:32:41.720 you can get these you can get

00:32:42.900 these charges dismissed on

00:32:45.000 First Amendment grounds

00:32:46.140 which would not be immediately

00:32:48.240 available and that would have

00:32:49.320 to wait until post conviction

00:32:50.840 what do you make of that Dave

00:32:52.240 yeah I don't think that either

00:32:55.040 of those arguments will work in

00:32:57.380 court but one thing that could is

00:32:59.000 that he's going to try to remove

00:33:00.460 this case to federal court I think

00:33:01.960 he has better a better chance at

00:33:03.340 that I still don't think it's

00:33:04.540 likely but he could argue that

00:33:06.280 these are federal issues involving

00:33:09.140 the time when he was president

00:33:10.840 because he was president when most

00:33:12.280 of this stuff occurred and so he's

00:33:13.580 going to try to remove it to

00:33:14.520 federal court where there will

00:33:15.700 would be no cameras in the

00:33:17.200 courtroom and he could get a judge

00:33:18.580 that was appointed by him so I

00:33:21.560 think that's more likely I have to

00:33:22.660 disagree with my friend Mike that

00:33:23.800 the Supreme Court would uphold

00:33:25.320 presidential immunity or First

00:33:27.640 Amendment rights to overcome this

00:33:29.220 sprawling sweeping indictment one

00:33:32.140 thing that Bonnie Willis is 1.00

00:33:33.200 counting on Megan is that she

00:33:35.580 counts on the fact that several

00:33:37.400 of these defendants will flip and

00:33:39.480 that way won't be a 19 person

00:33:40.980 trial but many fewer Donald Trump

00:33:42.900 does not have the ability to wave

00:33:44.420 pardons around to try to get

00:33:46.120 people to stay on his side so you

00:33:48.180 have some of these lower level

00:33:49.160 defendants that may want to cut a

00:33:51.060 deal with Bonnie Willis and the 0.99

00:33:52.180 first one in will be the first one

00:33:54.360 to win ask you a question about

00:33:55.660 that can I ask you a question

00:33:56.340 about that like when you say

00:33:57.460 flip so that's I get this I saw

00:34:00.140 the three godfathers I understand

00:34:01.840 what like if you flip you know 0.99

00:34:03.200 you you're a rat and you turn and 0.98

00:34:06.480 you say yes the godfather orders 1.00

00:34:08.640 all the hits it's all him but this

00:34:11.500 seems like what is flipping look

00:34:13.740 like you know there's not some

00:34:16.020 mystery that we need to get to the

00:34:17.640 bottom of don't we kind of know we

00:34:19.220 know like Trump didn't believe he

00:34:20.700 lost the election Trump said he

00:34:22.600 didn't lose Trump we have phone

00:34:24.320 calls and the recordings of them

00:34:26.840 like I don't really understand

00:34:28.320 what flip means or would do in

00:34:31.060 this case well I also saw all three

00:34:33.480 godfathers the first two are

00:34:34.820 outstanding the third was so

00:34:35.960 disappointing but that's another

00:34:37.180 time what flipping means here is

00:34:40.900 like Mark Meadows for example he was

00:34:42.700 in the room when it happens he could

00:34:44.220 actually talk about Trump's intent

00:34:45.680 his mindset and that could go a long

00:34:47.720 way if he takes a stand now Jack

00:34:49.580 Smith apparently has cut a deal with

00:34:50.940 Mark Meadows already but that's

00:34:52.740 different than state court and so I am

00:34:55.180 really perplexed and interested to see

00:34:57.160 what is the status of Mark Meadows I

00:34:59.360 gotta admit I did not expect him to be

00:35:01.560 indicted here because his lawyers I

00:35:03.800 think would not have copped to a deal

00:35:05.940 with federal prosecutors knowing they

00:35:07.960 would also be subject to prosecution at

00:35:10.280 the state level so this is gonna be

00:35:12.740 really interesting he could be the

00:35:14.060 linchpin to this state case

00:35:15.900 Mark Meadows Mike needed to get the

00:35:18.940 Hunter Biden lawyers who are very good

00:35:21.320 at making sure when you get immunity

00:35:22.760 it's immunity for everything you you

00:35:24.820 will not be left hanging for a second

00:35:26.420 indictment they made damn good sure of

00:35:28.280 that thanks to that good judge in

00:35:30.220 Delaware no one got away with it but

00:35:32.600 okay so I'll I'll I'll ask you this

00:35:35.500 parting thoughts Mike on now that we

00:35:37.600 have four four indictments how do you

00:35:40.720 see this affecting Trump's electoral

00:35:43.000 chances and his likelihood of remaining a

00:35:46.920 free man for the remainder of his life at

00:35:50.380 he's 77 now so I've been saying this for

00:35:54.520 the last year this Democrat lawfare is

00:35:56.780 going to help Trump politically and we

00:35:59.240 saw all that with Alvin Bragg's indictment

00:36:02.080 of Trump for the non-crime of a businessman

00:36:04.140 settling a nuisance claim that helped

00:36:06.460 President Trump win the Republican

00:36:07.960 primary I think Jack Smith's indictment of

00:36:11.120 President Trump for the non-crime of a

00:36:13.040 former president having his presidential

00:36:14.560 records and the office of former

00:36:16.540 president which is allowed by the

00:36:17.760 presidential records act put Trump in

00:36:20.460 very close contention with Biden for the

00:36:22.700 general election I think Jack Smith's

00:36:25.140 second indictment for the non-crime of

00:36:27.140 objecting to a presidential election which

00:36:29.960 is allowed by the electoral count act of

00:36:31.800 1887 and the first amendment helped

00:36:33.900 Trump win the election and I actually

00:36:36.140 think Fannie Willis's indictment here on

00:36:38.820 similar grounds for January 6th is going to

00:36:41.980 help President Trump win the presidency

00:36:44.600 comfortably by like two or three percentage

00:36:46.860 points and it comes down to this the

00:36:49.900 American people are not going to let 1.00

00:36:51.940 Democrat prosecutors and Democrat judges

00:36:54.740 and Democrat juries and Democrat hell

00:36:57.260 holes decide the next president of the 0.99

00:36:59.400 United States they're going to resent 0.90

00:37:00.660 that it's going to backfire we're already

00:37:02.840 seeing that in the polls okay wait a quick

00:37:05.300 question a follow-up for you Mike

00:37:06.660 there's been some talk of like where are

00:37:11.780 the Republicans why aren't they fighting

00:37:13.560 back quote-unquote why isn't the house

00:37:15.620 GOP doing more you know because they do

00:37:18.320 have some nuclear level tools in their

00:37:21.440 arsenal that they haven't yet not yet

00:37:23.780 deployed do you know what I mean and do

00:37:27.680 you think that they should deploy them I

00:37:30.580 always say that the DC swamp is the only

00:37:33.920 place on the planet where the reptiles

00:37:36.060 lack backbones and that includes House

00:37:39.220 Republicans and they have they control

00:37:42.560 the House of Representatives they control

00:37:44.420 oversight they should they have

00:37:46.380 impeachment they could open an impeachment

00:37:48.260 inquiry on President Biden for his

00:37:50.280 corruption Merrick Garland and Attorney

00:37:52.760 General Merrick Garland for his cover-up

00:37:54.540 they have the power of the purse they

00:37:56.340 should they should pass to appropriation

00:37:58.840 writers in the next in the next

00:38:01.660 appropriations process or shut down the 0.99

00:38:03.680 goddamn government because we don't 0.99

00:38:04.900 have a government worth saving if we're 1.00

00:38:06.780 going to throw in prison our political

00:38:08.600 enemies it's the end of the Republican

00:38:09.860 those those appropriation writers

00:38:11.660 number one no federal funds may be used

00:38:14.740 for the prosecution of a major

00:38:17.140 presidential candidate honored before

00:38:18.880 November 5th 2024 that means pause

00:38:22.020 these unprecedented prosecutions let the

00:38:24.880 American people decide the election they

00:38:27.200 could wait till after the election they

00:38:28.520 waited 30 months to bring these they can

00:38:30.480 wait till after the election and number

00:38:32.360 two any jurisdiction that prosecutes a

00:38:36.160 major presidential candidate honor

00:38:37.940 before November 5th 2024 loses all federal

00:38:41.840 funds it's the it's the nuclear option

00:38:43.660 it's the kill switch we cannot have this

00:38:46.000 election interference this is how the

00:38:48.180 Roman Republic fell this is this is

00:38:50.820 crossing the Rubicon when you start

00:38:52.640 prosecuting presidential rivals that's the

00:38:55.520 end of our country because I guarantee you

00:38:57.420 this when Trump is back in the White House

00:38:59.760 and I'm his acting attorney general for my

00:39:02.180 three week reign of terror I promise you

00:39:04.940 I'm gonna be indicting President Biden's 1.00

00:39:07.080 ass and Hunter Biden's ass and all these 1.00

00:39:08.780 Democrats I will indict them I will fire 1.00

00:39:11.300 people I will have my Trump pardon and then

00:39:13.800 I'll come back on Megan and laugh about it

00:39:16.100 I bet you didn't get that asked on MSNBC

00:39:20.720 definitely not well Megan if Mike becomes the

00:39:24.240 acting attorney general I will send you both

00:39:26.360 postcards from Guantanamo no I will

00:39:29.160 spare you Dave I kind of like you I thought

00:39:31.220 you're the one Democrat who I like I'll

00:39:32.900 spare you yeah I'll take you off

00:39:34.360 thank you thank you Mike it's been a

00:39:39.160 pleasure Mike you as well guys thank you

00:39:41.340 appreciate it as always thank you all

00:39:43.620 right up next we're gonna get to the

00:39:44.860 politics of all this a bit more when the

00:39:47.160 guys the fellas from ruthless join us for

00:39:50.360 the rest of the show don't go away

00:39:51.640 former President Trump facing his fourth

00:39:57.860 criminal indictment this year and now

00:39:59.540 promising to hold a news conference on

00:40:02.480 Monday where he says he will refute the

00:40:05.720 charges being leveled against him and

00:40:07.960 prove there were electoral problems in

00:40:11.020 Georgia and fraud and so on and so forth

00:40:13.540 so he's not backing down one bit on the

00:40:15.560 allegations that have gotten him in so much

00:40:17.080 trouble that also happens to be the same

00:40:19.040 week Republicans are set to hold their

00:40:20.920 first presidential primary debate joining

00:40:25.080 me now to discuss it all Josh Holmes

00:40:27.200 comfortably smug Michael Duncan and John

00:40:29.660 Ashbrook together they are the fellas

00:40:32.040 from ruthless hey guys great to have you

00:40:35.220 back there Megan great to be here to be

00:40:38.020 back what a day my god I like okay I'm

00:40:42.620 just gonna kick it off with this I know

00:40:44.100 you guys have seen some of this there

00:40:45.280 was one abutted soundbite that went on for

00:40:47.240 30 minutes last night I watched almost the

00:40:48.740 whole thing but just can I just show this

00:40:52.660 the montage we have it labeled sought nine

00:40:55.080 of the Democrats doing the very thing

00:40:58.080 Donald Trump is facing these indictments

00:41:00.240 one thing that Trump is fearful of when it comes to his being president is that finally we will see how illegitimate his victory actually was I have an objection I object to the 15 votes from the state of North Carolina I object because people are horrified he's an illegitimate president john lewis is completely right there is a cloud of illegitimacy around the election of Donald Trump there absolutely is a cloud of illegitimacy so that legitimacy is in question yes so that was a very tainted

00:41:30.200 election and in that sense it's illegitimate

00:41:33.660 they won the last presidential election folks they stole the last presidential election

00:41:37.700 and Al Gore won that election I think he won it anyway

00:41:40.660 actually I think I carried Florida

00:41:42.460 Al Gore won the election nationwide and also in Florida but the supreme court ruled the other way

00:41:48.000 Al Gore got more votes but not enough to stay out of the supreme court where president bush was elected five to four

00:41:53.500 Bush versus Gore a court took away a presidency

00:41:59.400 the RNC put that together we could have kept going I mean no one got indicted nobody

00:42:04.800 and I think it's even more germane to bring up the fact that Stacey Abrams has been able to fundraise hundreds of millions of dollars claiming that the election was stolen

00:42:12.200 and that she is to this day the rightful governor of Georgia and I don't think any case has been brought up against her it's very clear that this is a political witch hunt

00:42:21.720 well okay I think we're all gonna have a little different takes on on some of this I think rhetorically you're absolutely right I mean this is there they have been absurd absurd they are absurd

00:42:32.560 uh it's completely ridiculous what democrats have done what they try to hold out is is two systems of justice and only prosecuting the republican side

00:42:40.320 I think there's no question about it that if a conviction is obtained in either Georgia or this federal case dealing with this particular issue

00:42:48.120 it will wind its way to the united states supreme court at some point and that the reason for that is because

00:42:54.060 the underlying crime here whether we're dealing with the rico statute uh in Georgia or or this the charges that jack smith brought

00:43:02.120 is in question and there is a very real question about whether electors which are specifically outlined

00:43:09.520 in the constitution united states is a political apparatus or it's not um I think they're you know

00:43:16.420 Georgia is clearly arguing here that the the appointment of electors constitutes an official action by the state

00:43:24.280 an official action by the by the united states to elect a president united states and therefore

00:43:29.340 it is a conspiracy to try to undermine an official action there's a lot of precedent on the other side

00:43:35.000 of that too and I I think ultimately this is going to wind itself into a ball here that is not going to be

00:43:41.980 resolved anytime soon and I think jack smith if you go back and you read the indictment uh out of dc on

00:43:48.140 on january 6 stuff um you know in that indictment I think he he kind of uh looks ahead to that legal

00:43:56.220 argument that you know all these are political actions um and he says in there you know Donald

00:44:02.020 trump had every right to use his first amendment to contest the election even to lie right and there's

00:44:08.620 precedent on on on on that being uh political speech but the actions that are mentioned whether

00:44:17.040 it's the alternative slate of electors or what have you both in the dc indictment and this one now out of

00:44:22.800 georgia are what they see as it's where it separates from the rhetoric if you will

00:44:28.620 yeah and mike davis you had him on earlier he obviously was making his case about why this

00:44:34.520 whole thing could be invalidated in georgia I mean we know that the prosecutor is incredibly political

00:44:41.120 launched her own campaign website last thursday has been disqualified by a judge on another case for

00:44:47.580 being political we know that this has been a very political process from start to finish and what

00:44:53.320 caught my attention this morning was not someone who typically aligns with republicans in any way shape

00:44:59.480 or form it's ruth marcus who's a columnist at the washington post and this morning she wrote that she

00:45:05.400 has substantial misgivings about this case in georgia she walks through her whole reasoning why

00:45:10.600 but I it caught my attention I didn't expect ruth marcus to say that chris christie has sort of thrown

00:45:17.080 cold water on this case in georgia I think his argument was basically that these charges have

00:45:22.520 already been filed on a federal level so it's kind of doubling up but just a couple of examples of

00:45:28.040 people who I didn't expect to come out and throw cold water on the georgia case and have this morning

00:45:33.980 it's I mean it's to me it's just so wrong because they are trying to criminalize speech him saying I

00:45:39.380 think there's been fraud that you're going to go back check the rolls and you're going to find voters

00:45:43.460 who weren't properly registered you're going to find dead people voting we hear that every election

00:45:48.040 I'm not saying he didn't take it to the nth degree he did he took it to a place we haven't seen before

00:45:52.860 but in general what we seem to be doing is criminalizing election denialism which the

00:45:58.320 democrats have gotten away with now for decades I mean for we went back to al gore and that soundbite

00:46:04.640 we just played you and yet when you have one of the chief election deniers sitting there with

00:46:08.860 rachel madda on on msnbc last night they had exchanges like this one I got another one up

00:46:14.000 my sleeve audience here listen to soundbite seven do you feel satisfaction in that you warned the

00:46:23.180 country essentially that he was going to try to end democracy I don't feel any satisfaction I feel

00:46:28.120 great uh you know just just great profound sadness that uh we have a former president who has been

00:46:36.400 indicted uh for so many uh charges that went right to the heart of whether or not our democracy would

00:46:44.320 survive the only satisfaction may be that the system is working oh my god yeah I mean I think

00:46:52.040 the system she's talking about is that democrats are allowed to persecute their political opponents

00:46:56.720 we're seeing that every day so she has to be pretty happy yeah exactly as anticipated anybody in

00:47:02.920 modern history in america that's undermined democracy more than the than hillary clinton I mean just

00:47:08.340 everything she did to you know weaponize uh the intelligence agencies against donald trump um on

00:47:14.880 russiagate is I mean that alone no that alone yeah I think has permanently changed our country made

00:47:20.260 everybody skeptical of these charges honestly I can I tell you that was a disgusting display by both

00:47:27.180 women on the set I would vote for Ron DeSantis over Joe Biden any day of the week I've made that clear 0.66

00:47:34.340 okay I I tell you what my bias is when I sat across from Ron DeSantis I pressed him I pressed him on

00:47:42.040 the weaknesses in his arguments things that he said that were inconsistent positions he had that would

00:47:47.120 fall apart potentially if you really you know drilled down and he stood his own that's what a journalist

00:47:52.220 does that's what your obligation is as a member of the media you failed Rachel Maddow you failed I

00:47:57.500 don't care how much they give you 30 million dollars a year you're not worth 30 cents that was an

00:48:01.700 embarrassment you fell down on the job you embarrassed yourself and your network and you

00:48:05.960 ceded the entire discussion to a dishonest broker who set us down this disgusting path that we're now on

00:48:12.960 where everybody denies everybody's the real president shame on you both okay

00:48:16.980 oh I love it Megan gets all work don't you round of applause it'd be fun today

00:48:23.200 it's not that hard it's not that hard do better okay love you guys stand by we have much much more

00:48:29.340 to get to including the lizard people the woman on the plane um and the guys in Iowa and then again

00:48:36.440 at the presidential debate ruthless has taken off they're everywhere we're going to talk to them

00:48:41.960 about the latest poll out of New Hampshire it's getting kind of interesting all right stand by

00:48:46.460 the ruthless program hosts stay with us okay guys as unpleasant as it is to be mired in indictment

00:48:56.620 hell instead of talking about real issues affecting the American people that's where we are so we have

00:49:03.140 to talk about you know what this means for presidential politics you heard Mike Davis say he thinks and the

00:49:09.620 polling would support him so far that all these indictments only drive the support for Trump up not down

00:49:16.060 he thinks that will hold true in the general as well that's a much bigger question mark um and I know

00:49:22.940 I mean I've been listening I've listened to a ton of conservative podcasts and so on and there's been

00:49:27.080 a real debate on like even Trump supporters getting a little worried like it's it's like I'm scared

00:49:32.700 because all the money's gonna have to go toward his legal fees and all of his attention is gonna have

00:49:38.680 to go to the criminal cases where he must sit you're not allowed to skip those those trials and so on

00:49:43.540 and not toward advertisements and rallies and get out the vote efforts and can you really win an election

00:49:52.420 with a guy who's this laden down with such legal ballot baggage whether you believe it's just or not

00:50:00.600 well I think the Democrats are hoping you can't it's pretty clear that you know they like having a

00:50:07.240 situation where their opposition can be mired in in legal problems and the thing is is that once they

00:50:13.340 have something that they see works they just keep the same model going you know after Hillary loses

00:50:18.200 they say okay this is Russian disinformation we're gonna tell everyone this is an illegitimate

00:50:22.620 issue it's it's Russian disinformation what happens in 2020 same playbook oh Hunter Biden's laptop

00:50:28.160 Russian disinformation so until you finally draw a line in the sand and stop their advance they're gonna

00:50:34.620 just do the same thing over and over again I mean what does that mean smoke does it do you agree with

00:50:38.740 Mike Davis like defund DOJ defund Jack Smith indict Joe Biden you know fire with fire I think the DOJ

00:50:46.900 definitely needs to be cleaned up it's extremely clear as we've seen that there's a lot of people

00:50:50.900 in there who are political operatives rather than trying to serve their country and I think separately

00:50:55.540 Biden should be indicted I think that the House Republicans are doing a great job investigating it

00:51:00.180 and I hope they're allowed to get to the bottom of it but when things like a special prosecutor is

00:51:04.600 put in place to try to stop them it's really clear that there's a system in place to protect those in 0.62

00:51:09.820 power and those people have been there since Trump first arrived and they were threatened by his

00:51:15.220 presence and they want to make sure nothing like that ever happens again they want to be able to tell

00:51:19.180 who's going to win the next election who's going to be the next candidate and keep the system and

00:51:23.160 gravy train going for him I think I mean that argument clearly works with your Republican primary

00:51:27.360 electorate you see with all these indictments Donald Trump's poll numbers continue to go up

00:51:31.220 but I haven't seen any evidence that helps him in a general election as as your earlier guests

00:51:36.660 alluded I mean if you look at most of those polls you know Trump's doing really well against Biden

00:51:41.060 right now but in the crosstabs you know the people that aren't supporting Joe Biden aren't people who

00:51:45.440 are open for business for the Republican Party it's it's younger voters it's black voters who are just 1.00

00:51:51.160 probably disappointed with what the Biden administration has done thus far but ultimately at the end of the day

00:51:55.660 they're going to pull the lever for Joe Biden let's be honest I don't think it's particularly

00:51:59.480 yeah I don't think it's particularly difficult to understand I mean we've seen this play out now over

00:52:03.860 six years yeah this is not just a small sample size it's it's Donald Trump and your fears of Donald

00:52:10.600 Trump in the center of the electorate and how that affects and impacts statewide elections in

00:52:14.760 competitive states and we've seen in 2018 and 2020 and in 2022 one consistent refrain here which is

00:52:22.820 your center right and center left of the electorate in states across this country that determine the

00:52:28.760 outcome of a general presidential election are not comfortable with the kind of stuff that we're talking

00:52:34.120 about right this moment now conversely he is getting stronger and stronger in a primary which is difficult

00:52:41.580 news for Republican voters to hear if they want to if they want to compete in a general but I'll tell you why it is

00:52:47.740 I think and this is this is my theory of the case I think what's happened with the Department of Justice

00:52:52.920 and the failure to have any sort of justice on the Democratic side whether it's Hunter Biden whether

00:52:58.620 it's the links to Joe Biden the lack of curiosity about what seems like pretty rank corruption here

00:53:04.400 and the appointment of special prosecutors that look an awful lot like you're just trying to obstruct

00:53:10.060 a house investigation is what's buoying Donald Trump because Republican voters do not have

00:53:16.400 another outlet to have justice here they do not have a a something that lets air out of this balloon 0.57

00:53:24.880 the only way to protest what's going on in a very apparent two systems of justice is to support the

00:53:31.980 one guy on your side who is the victim of their injustice and so that is why he is sort of forever

00:53:38.660 insulated within a Republican primary electorate I don't know if the water ultimately gets too heavy for

00:53:44.560 people to carry you mentioned like the financing of this whole thing that is not an insignificant deal

00:53:50.260 that is a very significant deal Republicans are outspent any damn way I mean no matter what Democrats

00:53:55.440 are going to spend more money than Republicans so now take all the Republican donations and toss it

00:54:00.660 into a legal fund and then you basically just sit there and give courtroom press conferences and call

00:54:05.560 it a presidential campaign yeah and that's basically what people are left with it is a huge the financing

00:54:10.180 is a huge problem because another reason why I think Trump is so strong right now is because I

00:54:14.600 think he's actually running the strongest campaign of any of these primary uh candidates around the

00:54:20.480 country they are so much better organized than they've ever been they are doing every technical

00:54:25.600 thing that you're supposed to be doing and even the stuff that's not seen I mean I think that I think

00:54:31.880 that the people they're running against would acknowledge that they're surprised by how well organized

00:54:37.140 this Trump campaign actually is and when you start to underfund that effort you start to really take 0.88

00:54:43.120 away from his strength I mean the reality is all of these indictments suck for him right all of this bad

00:54:49.240 news is really really bad for him in a perfect world if you could go back to right after the election in

00:54:54.960 2020 Donald Trump says I'll be back instead of I didn't lose and if he had done that and if he had spent

00:55:01.980 this last three years just making fun of Joe Biden on Twitter I mean we all know he it would be the funniest

00:55:07.740 most entertaining material that the guys ever had he would have unified the Republican Party by this point

00:55:13.700 he wouldn't have primary opposition and he would be heading into a potential landslide victory over Joe Biden

00:55:19.740 with a bigger mandate than he had in 2017 so I think his actions right after the 2020 election will prove to be

00:55:27.400 the biggest headache that he could have ever created for himself you know it's one of these situations

00:55:32.440 guys where it's like I don't think the things that Trump is being accused of doing are criminal

00:55:39.260 with the exception of the Mar-a-Lago case there's there's an argument that that behavior was was

00:55:44.520 criminal but that one is just nullified for me by the Hillary Clinton precedent you didn't go after her 1.00

00:55:49.480 she did exactly the same thing I mean it was as exact as you could get in a criminal case and they didn't 0.97

00:55:54.780 prosecutor and so you're done that that no you cannot do it um so they didn't go after her they

00:56:01.040 shouldn't be going after him and the other things are free speech and I don't think that they're

00:56:04.260 criminal however how can the Republican Party even the Trump lovers not factor in how this is going to

00:56:14.220 go for the next year and a half you know how can you not as much as you might love Trump don't you

00:56:20.840 have to factor in oh my god we're gonna spend the next year and a half mired in January 6th talk the

00:56:29.100 most alienating thing there is to independent voters we gotta preview that we gotta preview that

00:56:35.660 in 2022 Megan I mean you look at all the statewide candidates who were mired the most in defending

00:56:43.620 Donald Trump on the 2020 election and quote-unquote election denialism right that the media loves to

00:56:49.920 pair it those candidates went down in flames right and they tanked with with uh the suburban voters

00:56:55.980 and it's not debatable either I mean this is the thing that I always find so remarkable about you

00:57:00.640 know I can understand defending Donald Trump and I can understand defending him against injustice and

00:57:07.140 unjust charges in a two systems of justice what I do not ever understand is how we can sort of wish

00:57:14.400 cast out a different set of facts where the center of the electorate are all of a sudden very comfortable

00:57:20.460 with the post 2020 behavior they're not it's cemented in stone we have now an election that showed

00:57:28.080 exactly what Michael was just talking about how people feel about that you can't undo that that bell

00:57:34.400 doesn't unring and they okay but let me let me ask you a follow-up on that Holmes because I think what

00:57:38.720 people who backed Donald Trump would say is okay right we didn't win them over we didn't win them

00:57:44.560 over in 20 we didn't win them over in 22 um but they didn't really have all the time of watching Joe

00:57:52.080 Biden under their belts at those critical points and now he's just been so disappointing and now is late

00:57:59.960 is covered himself in these ethics allegations that seem to have a lot of teeth and so those people

00:58:06.140 are gettable in a way they weren't gettable before boy I just it seems a lot again it seems like

00:58:13.380 wish casting I look Joe Biden was not a formidable presidential candidate in 2020 everybody sort of

00:58:20.080 like in retrospect talks about how he was you know perceived as this modern he didn't even come out of 0.93

00:58:24.980 his damn basement when he was doing rallies he was doing circles and honking cars I mean there is no way 0.80

00:58:30.040 that this guy inspired the kind of turnout that he did what inspired the turnout that voted for him 0.99

00:58:36.800 was Donald Trump and I think that piece of it remains and and look don't take my word for it

00:58:43.080 look what happened in 2020 look what happened in 2022 look at where the polls are now look where the

00:58:49.840 intensity is within the Republican and Democratic parties and look at ultimately where those center of

00:58:55.640 the electorate independents ultimately land on this question I'm not sure that any of that piece is

00:59:02.160 changeable with this sort of ubiquitous absolutely everywhere discussion that we're having about the

00:59:08.880 thing that they found most distasteful about Donald Trump if it was about his presidential record by the

00:59:13.440 way if it was about his presidential record as I think Ashbrook indicated he would win in a landslide

00:59:18.320 we'd be talking about Reagan Mondale type numbers it's not going to be about that it's going to be about

00:59:23.880 what we are now talking about with this case and minds have been made up on that

00:59:28.400 so how much of the fact that he's running away with that right now on the GOP side guys

00:59:33.500 has to do with okay yes we factored in the indictments and all that but

00:59:38.260 it was it would look very different after DeSantis won sweeping the sweeping victory in Florida

00:59:43.740 and before the indictments and they were close you know they weren't that close but they were within

00:59:48.020 10 15 points Trump and DeSantis so how much of this situation has to do with the fact that DeSantis

00:59:53.400 hasn't taken off you know he hasn't it's just like there's not a second really strong comer you know

01:00:01.480 it's not like people like Vivek but he's not right I mean come on it's not gonna happen he's not gonna

01:00:08.440 overtake Donald Trump and like they loved DeSantis but like the bloom has come off the rose a bit

01:00:13.840 and they might like Nikki Haley but she's not really generating much buzz and in fact her numbers are now

01:00:19.020 going down in the latest polls Tim Scott's not even on the latest New Hampshire numbers he's not

01:00:24.240 even registering so it's like how much of this problem the GOP is in has to do with the fact that

01:00:28.600 they don't have the strong underdog here to save the day coming up the ranks I think uh this first

01:00:35.780 debate is going to be critical I kind of agree with that for actually having a candidate that can have

01:00:41.600 a breakout moment because as of right now you know the most you could think that you know the average

01:00:48.340 American would see is maybe some cursory news footage of a candidate walking around uh in at a

01:00:55.040 state fair or uh if they are in Iowa or New Hampshire then they're seeing or South Carolina they're seeing

01:01:00.520 ads outside of that most Americans haven't really tuned in you know the kids have been on summer break

01:01:06.260 they've got a lot of other stuff they've been worrying about once a debate starts that really

01:01:10.900 focuses a lot of people's attention and especially if Donald Trump decides not to show up then he allows

01:01:17.540 all these candidates to have free reign and try to have a breakout moment hmm I wonder you know I

01:01:26.160 last I heard it didn't look good and people around Trump were saying even behind the scenes he's not going

01:01:33.000 uh and when I spoke to him directly I certainly did not walk away thinking he's going and I don't

01:01:38.060 think he thinks he needs to go you know the latest polls show him losing no steam he's completely dominant

01:01:43.300 and you could argue it's a power move not to go right like let the minions debate the minions smug

01:01:49.720 let them debate and uh and the gorilla's not going to show up until he wants to I don't know um I'd be

01:01:57.960 shocked to see Trump lose substantially in the polls if he doesn't show I think if he does show

01:02:03.680 he's probably only going to drive his numbers up but what do you guys think I the one thing you got

01:02:08.260 to keep an eye on is Iowa um of all these early states it shows the most malleability it's also a

01:02:13.900 place where people demand that you come and earn their vote and 2016 when Donald Trump lost narrowly

01:02:19.100 to Ted Cruz he worked his ass off to go earn their vote he's flying kids around in helicopters

01:02:24.520 they're also in New York they pay you no attention whatsoever well I mean listen if you make an

01:02:32.920 election interesting in New York let me know but in terms of Iowa itself I mean look it's a well

01:02:39.060 educated uh voting base it's people within the state party and within government there who are

01:02:45.020 pretty squared away in juxtaposition to a lot of other states in this country where the Republican

01:02:49.300 Party has been a disaster and so they look for certain things they want to make sure that somebody

01:02:54.500 comes and earns their vote I do think look I kind of agree with you and then there's not going

01:02:58.700 to be some shelf here we'll don't where Donald Trump bottoms out but what we've seen over the last

01:03:04.460 several competitive Republican primaries it or caucuses in Iowa is there are late surges from

01:03:10.020 candidates that are responsive to what people are are doing and seeing in Iowa and I think leaving

01:03:17.140 open the idea that you don't need to go work for it is a kind of a dangerous proposition for the

01:03:23.580 Trump campaign yeah this this debate Trump skipped a debate Ashbrook he skipped a debate in Iowa I mean

01:03:29.280 I was there didn't show up and he's still and he lost Iowa but he still won the nomination and then

01:03:34.340 the presidency go ahead yeah he he can he can't skip I mean he's not going to bottom out like like you

01:03:40.240 guys have said he's not going to bottom out but if he doesn't show every single one of these other

01:03:44.480 candidates has an opportunity in front of a national audience to to demonstrate to these Republican

01:03:49.520 primary voters some of whom are Trump supporters and have some anxiety about Trump's ability to get

01:03:55.000 over the finish line in a general they have the ability to show that they're going to stick it to

01:03:59.720 the libs just as much as Trump they have they they're going to have the back of every one of these 1.00

01:04:04.160 conservative voters just as much as Trump and if he's not there on stage with them to belittle them

01:04:10.140 make people laugh at them then he risks an entire conversation around him and where he is not the center of the

01:04:18.860 Republican universe and that I think is where things start to fall off for him that's his superpower

01:04:23.260 and and I think also I mean I think the state of the polling as as it currently is with Donald Trump

01:04:28.360 with like what seems like an insurmountable lead is based on two preconditions number one we've never

01:04:32.780 I don't think we've had in my lifetime a you know competitive Republican primary for president where you

01:04:37.500 had a former president you know in the race I mean so he's going to get a base baseline support there even

01:04:43.080 if it is maybe more surface level or they don't know what their other options are and then you also have

01:04:47.560 I think a lot of the candidates who have been sort of equivocating and qualifying all these statements

01:04:52.600 about Donald Trump as all these indictments come around about how unfair it is to the guy that

01:04:56.480 they're running against which seems like a very strange strategy to me if you think you're a better

01:04:59.980 person to be president but it is what it is and I think there's a reinforcing mechanism for a Republican

01:05:04.480 primary voter that every time they see his opponents talk about how unfair things are to Donald Trump

01:05:09.520 well then they're going to support Donald Trump so like why are you running against Donald Trump so you know

01:05:13.800 you have to think during this debate whether Donald Trump shows up or not that those knives are going

01:05:18.520 to get a little sharper that those statements are probably going to get a little more crisp and the

01:05:22.600 criticism is going to be a little more direct on Donald Trump and these indictments or things he

01:05:27.080 didn't accomplish in his presidency if I you know this has been DeSantis's line and some of the others

01:05:32.280 too like focus on electability because obviously Trump's crushing them on the primary side so it's like

01:05:37.920 you've got to convince Republican voters that you Ron DeSantis or you Chris Christie are going to be

01:05:45.640 more electable when you get to the general you you know you love Trump but he can't get the ball over

01:05:51.000 the finish line as you say so what I think they need to do just as a you know as a somebody who used to

01:05:57.180 argue for a living is have facts you need to say you know Trump lost Georgia by this much Trump lost

01:06:05.840 Wisconsin Trump lost Michigan Trump lost Arizona these are the numbers these are how the independence

01:06:11.060 went this is the vote that he lost and this is then what happened it gets specific don't just say he

01:06:15.780 cost us the house in 2020 in 2020 he lost you know the the narrow the victim whatever margin of victory

01:06:22.000 was smaller than it should have been in 2022 you need to show them why how many votes were lost who

01:06:26.880 was it that didn't vote for him who's gettable what are they saying now in the polls they feel about

01:06:31.460 Donald Trump what has he done like get specific that's how you win arguments you can't have these

01:06:36.380 sweeping like well he's Trump and Jan 6th and you know he's been a drag before that doesn't work

01:06:42.120 right yeah I mean I think that is absolutely a compelling case and again if if Trump isn't there

01:06:48.480 to rebut it you just give free reign for a candidate to make an argument like that um I get the feeling

01:06:54.800 that that the debate not it's not necessarily going to be a candidate chipping away at Donald Trump's

01:07:00.340 share but more of an opportunity for them to coalesce the folks who are not right now in polls

01:07:05.320 supporting Donald Trump and which is anywhere from 50 to 65 percent depending on your state I mean

01:07:10.600 there's still a massive amount of people a huge amount of people who have not completely put

01:07:14.160 themselves in for Trump and then like Holmes mentions when you look at the cross tabs it's not

01:07:17.920 like every supporter for Trump isn't still shopping and our experience when we're talking to folks in

01:07:23.080 Iowa is they're still shopping in the New York Times Sienna poll even half the people who say they're

01:07:27.800 going to vote for Donald Trump are open to other candidates at this point I mean like absolutely

01:07:32.320 and again like this this uh debate if Donald Trump doesn't show up presents such an opportunity for

01:07:37.840 these candidates who we've met with all of them we've had all of them on the show um there are people

01:07:43.400 out there waiting to get a moment to catch a spark like Doug Burgum out there whose record is insane

01:07:49.660 who's I'm telling you right now and I was don't sleep on bird I was telling these gents in in Iowa 0.94

01:07:56.220 the fellas are trying to get us behind on the Burgum train when when the Burgum train leaves the

01:08:02.540 station I'm gonna shout from from to everyone who will listen I called this first because the guy is

01:08:08.020 like if you took John Wayne and Ronald Reagan and mixed them together and his record as a governor

01:08:12.840 is incredible you just got a great compelling story we we we found out about your love affair

01:08:18.320 for the Burgum Meister Meister Burger hello anyone know that reference my kids always complain when

01:08:23.200 Christmas comes I only let them watch shows from the 1970s and 60s um Santa Claus is coming to town

01:08:28.420 anyway Doug Burgum went on with the fellas and uh this is not in Iowa I know you spoke with him then too

01:08:34.000 but this is a little earlier it was back uh it was last month in July and here's if if you are like

01:08:38.960 me and you've spent absolutely no time listening to or paying any attention Doug Burgum here you go

01:08:43.620 governor of North Dakota there you go North Dakota here he is when Catherine and I decided to take the

01:08:54.680 leap and jump into uh the governor's race in 2016 the you know there was uh we were down 69 10 in the

01:09:02.740 poll and I told Catherine you know she was like wow I'm not I'm not sure I want to be first lady uh and I

01:09:08.560 said don't worry we don't have a chance it's only five months to the primary uh but we uh you know

01:09:15.460 we we ran a campaign and said look we're not running and I'll never be right here I will never

01:09:20.660 be a senator or congressman I'm not some people want to put on a jersey red and blue duke it out

01:09:26.460 lob bombs great but I'm an operating guy all I've ever done is you know built built operations and and

01:09:32.020 executed and serve customers and and to try to defy the odds yes I mean you've defied the odds all the

01:09:38.100 way through your career okay John Wayne is strong I'll tell you right I mean I don't think we've

01:09:46.640 released the content yet but you should hear his method for killing rattlesnakes when he comes across

01:09:50.500 them yeah guy is he's a legit yeah yes this guy has ranch he's had buffaloes on his ranch that he's

01:09:57.000 had to kill he's killed rattlesnakes dude he went from a from being a chimney sweep uh to selling a

01:10:02.600 software company in north dakota for 1.1 billion dollars to microsoft wow I mean that's a hell of 0.69

01:10:09.360 a hell of a life story he also made us eat rattlesnake megan so like we haven't released

01:10:15.320 this yet but wait till you see this he like made us eat it they didn't didn't just tell us how to kill

01:10:20.320 the fellas when I went to Iowa I stayed in like a very tiny little hotel room I did have a little hot

01:10:26.740 tub in my room I will say it was a nice room but it was freezing we're freezing our asses off and we

01:10:32.580 got in and got out the fellas are eating rattlesnake and it must be said shotgunning beers may I run the

01:10:40.040 soundbite soundbite 24 oh boy

01:10:43.500 yeah what is going on here wait a minute

01:10:53.840 see Megan I need to correct the record let me correct the record first these were not beers

01:11:01.340 so these were high noons these were high noons these are high noons they weren't allowed

01:11:04.920 that's even worse that's way worse here's the thing you're all out of zemo no

01:11:09.720 okay there were no beers in cans no beers in cans there's only a glass bottle I said to Duncan I

01:11:16.320 said okay let's go let's cheers it and let's roll he just starts I was like okay fine I guess he's

01:11:21.260 not even gonna cheers me then he left over half of it still in the can I mean that is I look at him

01:11:26.060 spilling it on stage play the video again all of this is fake this is like half full he's still

01:11:30.120 smug so I want to make sure I got every last drop yeah I cleared mine smug smug it was a stolen

01:11:34.560 victory it was stolen you stole the win you did 100 you can you can go back and look at that at

01:11:40.820 like the zapruder film if you would like to Megan yeah I mean I I think I got a head start because I

01:11:46.660 mean watch I moved my face closer to the can it's spilling you see it from his can he's

01:11:51.560 it's filled everywhere it's empty so I saw that and I was like well I'm gonna make sure I got every

01:11:56.280 last well I think there's a lot of eyewitnesses in the first row who dispute your account

01:11:59.840 there smug but that's fine if you would like to challenge me again at the ruthless pre-show at

01:12:05.140 the debate in Milwaukee I'm happy to do it again oh boy done and you know what we'll we'll use pills

01:12:10.660 in our glasses so everyone will be able to look at the liquid no you and you shot them cans and we

01:12:15.520 turn them upside down okay of course original we're gonna drink these he's trying to rig it all right

01:12:20.500 wait there wasn't all the fun though wasn't there there was a little basketball going on there

01:12:23.580 Duncan I think you you partook in that right I did what was that was that like a competition

01:12:28.520 amongst you can we see the video let's see we not put it do we not put up there we go

01:12:32.320 look at the bank shot watch this Megan what is this like the Duncan highlight show it's the like

01:12:39.120 the one thing you've not done here Megan and I don't know Holmes why aren't you on here you know

01:12:43.540 that's money in the bank because I was throwing heat down at the batting cage lighting up the

01:12:47.980 speedometer because he missed he missed the shot so I mean you got to show the guy who makes the shot

01:12:52.500 well can I say I'm from Indiana you've seen the film Hoosiers it's in our blood you know we just

01:12:57.620 make shots but you didn't break the plate we threw baseballs at a lineup of plates you didn't break

01:13:03.160 the plate I was the only one who broke this is this is a multi-faceted team of talent yeah right

01:13:07.780 you had you had Holmes over here throwing fastballs you like broke the speedometer that they had

01:13:12.680 keep on heat look I'm Brooke was nailing the plates money in the bank okay so I want to add this to my

01:13:20.820 I'm gonna have to have the team come back and add this in later but my husband Doug and our friends

01:13:26.360 we all went out last weekend and they dragged us to this bar here at the Jersey Shore that everybody

01:13:31.060 loves that's got all these man games and um we tried to get out of it the two of us wives were 1.00

01:13:36.280 like you guys just go you guys just go and then after a lot of protesting by our husbands I'm like

01:13:40.560 maybe we'll just go for one beer she was like what you caved she's like you broke the code and you 1.00

01:13:45.300 caved without even talking to me so we went and we played some darts away and I'm gonna lay this

01:13:50.200 video in but can I tell you I did the thing where you punch the big punching bag you know like

01:13:54.160 and it gives you a rating and yeah fellas I got an almost 600 on this thing

01:13:59.860 some of these guys were getting two three hundred now now my husband got very high and so did our

01:14:15.220 friend Matt they were like pushing 800 but I'm telling you there was some power behind I think

01:14:20.120 I could hang in the ruthless Olympic program you got going on in Iowa it is long it has long been

01:14:24.540 known that Megyn Kelly can pack a punch I'm glad it is now documented evidence yeah okay one thing I

01:14:33.560 cannot do is figure out what's happening with the lady on the American Airlines plane this is not 0.89

01:14:39.320 pressing news of the day but we must discuss it I I can't get this lady out of my head I don't know 0.87

01:14:44.800 what's happening with her but I have theories and so does the internet okay so it's for the people

01:14:50.060 not paying attention the lady was on the plane it was an American Airlines plane and she had a meltdown 1.00

01:14:55.860 to the point where they had to bring the plane back to the airport they had to deplane everybody

01:15:00.880 everyone had to go through security again because she was making all sorts of comments about how 0.96

01:15:04.780 you're gonna die if you stay on this plane and the internet lost its mind because of what she was 1.00

01:15:11.280 saying the danger was on the plane now of course the Daily Mail has tracked her down we know who

01:15:16.420 she is she's done a mea culpa weird video where she's rebranded herself and clearly used about 40,000

01:15:21.880 TikTok filters because she looks totally different and I think I know what's happening but I want to 0.99

01:15:26.300 talk to the fellows about it let's look at the original freak out from July 2nd that got everybody

01:15:31.460 talking I'm telling you I'm getting the f*** off and there's a reason why I'm getting the f*** off and 0.97

01:15:38.240 everyone can either believe it or they cannot believe it I don't give two f***s but I am telling you 1.00

01:15:45.540 right now that mother f*** that mother f*** back there is not real 1.00

01:15:51.020 and shout out to the cameraman for like panning to the audience got the whole shot 0.99

01:16:05.280 it's so true what Spielberg one time several years ago smug was uh mistakenly put in coach class and

01:16:12.740 he had a very similar very similar response to that ladies I feel like maybe that's the underlying

01:16:17.360 I feel unsafe I saw that video before but I forgot how much she sounds like Mickey Mouse in that video

01:16:25.820 it's like a voice very high yeah yeah yeah well look I think I think she's a hero real I think she's a

01:16:33.640 hero I mean she spoke up and I to my knowledge nobody died on that flight bingo she if she had not

01:16:41.240 raised awareness who knows what might have happened who knows the number of lives saved well so then the

01:16:46.360 internet was like what does she mean that mfer is not real and they the sleuths on board the plane

01:16:53.180 kept going back and showing this one guy in a green hoodie sweatshirt who I guess was like next to her

01:16:57.660 on her original seat or near her on the original seat and then people went with she was accusing him of

01:17:05.440 being a lizard person now she does she's not heard saying that on the plane but this is a thing like

01:17:11.660 people believe that lizard people are walking amongst us and that you never know and that on

01:17:20.700 this in the same vein that people have been like taken over so you know we could have dunk in there

01:17:26.540 or we could have like the new invention of duncan who is like a shape shifter who just took over

01:17:32.440 duncan's body and the real duncan is no more never to be seen again people yeah I'm still draining hoops

01:17:38.080 and I was just gonna say that the lizard duncan has the ability to put clips in showing him doing

01:17:43.040 no wrong on the second county show that's what that is that's right we should all be taken over 0.99

01:17:47.860 so okay so that's everybody's like what when she's like he's that motherfucker's not real and I want to 0.99

01:17:53.020 get off the plane we're not safe clearly she's having a mental breakdown of some kind and then they find 0.99

01:17:58.320 her okay now look first of all just look and listen to the difference now that she puts out her own

01:18:04.560 I think she works in pr and she pr'd her own apology video where she does not address anything

01:18:09.880 about the lizard marketing whatever she does not address the lizard allegation or the mf are not real

01:18:15.700 this is how she sounds first and foremost I want to she looks like a million bucks take full 1.00

01:18:23.680 accountability for my actions they were completely unacceptable personal responsibility distressed

01:18:30.900 yes or not I should have been I should have been in control of my emotions and that was not the

01:18:38.460 case my use of profanity was completely unnecessary but sort of in line with those hoop earrings

01:18:46.780 especially those that had children aboard oh my god okay Tiffany Gomez which is her name apparently

01:18:53.360 your use of profanity is not the issue sweetheart that is not what got people talking

01:18:58.120 ain't it that ain't it and this is what I so now she's trying to rehabilitate herself and she's 1.00

01:19:04.560 actually saying she's going to create a space like in the mental wellness field for her to help 0.59

01:19:08.980 like what how what are you going to help I know you haven't even done a mea culpa on what the hell was

01:19:15.040 going on on that plane you're lucky you didn't get arrested and this leads me to where I really

01:19:20.680 wanted to go with you guys yes my hairstylist is amazing at recommending good tv

01:19:27.600 and she sent this to me and it is from 2022 it's on amazon prime and it's called the devil you know

01:19:37.340 season two season two and it's all about this cult is the word they use in the show but this group of

01:19:46.880 people that was following this radio host named sherry schreiner who was broadcasting out of the 0.97

01:19:56.100 middle of nowhere in what looked like a trailer no money no real follow like no no like marketing or

01:20:03.300 anything but had I guess tens of thousands of followers who hung on her every word at least two

01:20:09.800 people died according to the documentary uh one by suicide one was shot by his girlfriend at his own

01:20:17.940 request but she's now in jail um all because of this woman's powerful message and she was a lizard person 1.00

01:20:26.340 believer um here is I pull had my team pull a little bit from the documentary the the piece on uh

01:20:35.600 amazon prime here's this woman sherry schreiner I'm going to play soundbite 26 and then 25 for you 0.99

01:20:41.060 both take a listen you know celebrities they don't want to go along and what happens is they end up

01:20:47.520 getting getting switched out whether it's just totally replaced and you know who features that is lady gaga

01:20:53.860 i'm sure you all saw her as a man last night at the mtv award everybody stand up this is a real thing

01:21:04.160 they can do that yeah those are they can change their hair color by thought even though i don't

01:21:09.320 think she has hair because she's bald and wears a wig okay stand by stand by one more uh 27

01:21:16.880 i think the particular one that kelly started with was someone who was showing how lady gaga was a

01:21:28.420 reptilian i have always liked shapeshift or maybe taylor swift is another very popular target

01:21:35.520 to break down her videos and show where her eyes look reptilian that was her and one imagines that in 0.73

01:21:45.420 the comments section she saw something like no here is the real truth about the reptilians

01:21:51.520 what what's happening again raising awareness raising if if people don't know who knows what

01:22:05.900 might happen i mean that makes me guys you know that's what i think was happening on board that

01:22:09.680 plane i don't she didn't say lizards but why did she think the guy was not real this is more widespread

01:22:14.200 than you'd know and there was a guy um david ick who sort of came up with this originally and he had

01:22:20.040 all these followers who believed shapeshifters lizard people aliens among us who are inhabiting

01:22:24.540 our body i've never seen one in real life like i have a freak out on a plane about a guy in a green

01:22:29.220 sweatshirt but now now like all these people online are like oh you know go tiffany yeah you go girl and

01:22:35.980 she's gonna be our leader i guess in the mental health space it's a no okay it's a no but i will

01:22:41.300 here's where i'm gonna bring it all together okay i believe i said this last week that the the

01:22:47.260 deterioration in trust in all of our institutions whether it's the doj or the fbi the white house

01:22:55.160 the media um you know cia fbi all of this is related the less people believe in our institutions

01:23:03.880 the things that bind us together that used to be a given for us as americans the more they look to

01:23:09.000 alternative sources of information whether it's reddit or this woman sherry schreiner who died a

01:23:15.420 couple years ago or you know some q anon whatever some lizard person and this is our future like if 0.96

01:23:22.420 we can't rebuild that core togetherness and like belief in these institutions you're going to get

01:23:27.640 more and more american airlines jets that have to return to the tarmac or that you know whatever

01:23:32.400 more and more instances of people losing their tether on reality 100 the more you see these

01:23:38.380 institutions you know just coming apart and the trust people having them it's exactly what the

01:23:42.900 lizard people have been working toward so when you search for the alternate things what you're going

01:23:46.620 to look to the list what you've been working yeah why why do you think smug wears sunglasses in there

01:23:50.900 yeah he's just he's trying to hide his lizard eyes it's those lizard lion lizard eyes yeah that's going

01:23:56.900 on and megan you know you're like casting all this shade i wonder about your lizardness

01:24:00.500 what what made me so interested in this story hmm this exchange has just been clipped and it will

01:24:07.440 be saved for the next sherry or whatever no she's no longer with us but maybe she just shape-shifted 0.95

01:24:14.100 into something else here here's here a couple more sherry schreiner this is the woman's a lunatic 1.00

01:24:19.300 obviously no longer with us god rest her um bit of of uh wisdom for you um let's play soundbite 25

01:24:26.940 and then play 28 right after take a listen everything i've ever said i've been talking

01:24:33.380 about this stuff for 20 years

01:24:34.740 right now out of every four humans only one is real you know clones will walk around with horns 0.94

01:24:45.540 on their heads and tails sticking out of their ears they look like us we are at critical mass

01:24:52.140 the reptilians have been dominating earth uh for the last hundreds of years thousands these 0.91

01:24:59.600 aliens they pose as humans so they can destroy the humans on earth 1.00

01:25:06.260 wow one in four gentlemen raise your hand who is it that's the thing i'm looking around here

01:25:15.300 no we've already identified no but you know what i think like tying this back in megan

01:25:20.700 you're right i mean there is a modern sort of straight line of of logical thinking there's a lot 0.97

01:25:28.140 about our politics today that's no less absolutely ridiculous like you can't believe your lying eyes on

01:25:34.180 so many things that we're dealing with and like facts established facts are no longer established 0.90

01:25:40.460 just depends on your information flow and your your cylinder of of people who influence you one way or

01:25:46.780 another and of course like that becomes partisan over time it's how you end up with like you know

01:25:51.940 partisan justice as we're seeing with doj it's how you you know you deal with this sort of like

01:25:57.040 lingering idea that elections are are stolen and by venezuelan voting machines and people like yes i

01:26:03.700 knew hugo javez despite the fact that he was dead eight years ago had something to do with it i mean

01:26:08.500 it's it's like it's scary at some level because people used to trust institutions to help them make

01:26:13.460 sense of the world and when the world stops making sense and those institutions can't be trusted like

01:26:17.760 you said megan that's where they go to alternative sources of information that definitely don't make

01:26:22.660 sense but they make more sense than not knowing and people don't like not knowing and that's what made

01:26:27.500 this whole clip with this woman on this plane so interesting because people were like man what did

01:26:33.200 she take an ambien you know she just is she drunk like people wanted to know people were like they want 1.00

01:26:38.800 to know everything about her you know and so i think it's it's that desire to make sense of the world

01:26:44.200 that leads people to lots of weird places she lives in a million dollar house down in dallas by the way 1.00

01:26:50.000 she's got a good job i mean just goes to show you like you never know and if she is having a mental health

01:26:54.780 issue i hope she does better i hope she gets help but she's not alone you know and honestly

01:27:00.460 we're we opened the show today talking about donald trump on january 6th we had a woman on the show she

01:27:06.000 was amazing it was one of my favorite interviews that we've done since we launched the program

01:27:09.200 her name is lindsey graham um happened to be and she walked us through how she wound up at the

01:27:15.460 capitol on january 6th how she had been a business owner she had been building a business in which she owned 1.00

01:27:20.760 gyms and hair salons and she was making it and she was a new mother she had a newborn at home 0.96

01:27:26.820 and covid shut that shit down she lost everything all the debt was up and all the revenues were gone 0.98

01:27:35.500 evaporated and she had the stress and you know depression all the stuff that comes from oftentimes 0.99

01:27:40.000 when you have a new baby and she went a downward spiral trying to get news and information real news 0.76

01:27:46.820 and made the mistake of trying cnn which was a hot mess and before she knew it she was on reddit

01:27:53.040 a lot and became one of those people who really believed that magically on this certain date donald

01:28:00.040 trump was going to be the president again and like got sucked down the rabbit hole you guys it can happen

01:28:05.820 it can happen to normal successful people who you know you you may spend your day interacting with and 1.00

01:28:12.180 you have no idea right so this shit matters what this lunatic running the thing in georgia 1.00

01:28:17.840 did yesterday matters what jack smith is doing matters what the alvin bragg did met there they are 1.00

01:28:24.700 hashtag part of the problem it's not just about partisan politics it's about us it's about our kids

01:28:30.560 it's about our country it's about our future it's about the as i said the tether that binds when when

01:28:34.620 nothing else binds there were certain things we could always count on with the supreme court was another

01:28:38.960 one that's been completely delegitimized by these partisans on the left what they're doing is

01:28:44.280 reckless no question about it but i think also it extends to our media space is just one of the

01:28:50.300 things that we've come to appreciate you and your career regardless of whether you've been at fox news

01:28:55.080 or nbc you're now doing your own thing on this show it's that people listen there's millions of

01:28:59.400 people out there listening to this right now who trust megan kelly in her point of view and you've

01:29:04.700 always had a commitment regardless of who's offended by it or not to purvey the information

01:29:09.520 as it's given to you and and that's the responsibility we feel on ruthless too i mean look

01:29:14.400 it would have been very very easy for us at certain points over the last couple of years to go along

01:29:18.620 with the prevailing wisdom on the right about what was happening to them that wasn't true and many of

01:29:24.660 our competitors in the space and you know who they are i don't need to to say their names didn't think

01:29:30.300 they needed to do that and they thought that just continuing to turn the dial all the way to 10

01:29:34.640 got them better ratings which it did but it also left a population that had a absolute vacancy of

01:29:42.120 real information that allowed them to make decisions on everything from politics to how they live their

01:29:47.520 lives i think it's a damn shame and i think more people in our line of work ought to take that

01:29:52.440 commitment extremely seriously and also i i'd be remiss if i didn't add the fact that a lot of these

01:29:57.340 institutions aren't exactly victims in this process many of them are part of the undermining

01:30:01.960 when you had you know uh the cdc saying that saying that oh well you know you can catch covid if you go

01:30:08.840 to your family member's funeral but not if you're protesting for blm right that's completely fine or

01:30:14.500 you had the world health organization send out a tweet saying that covid cannot be transmitted human

01:30:18.200 to human to cover for china who was their major investor at the time so i think a lot of this comes

01:30:23.880 institutions i mean like like duncan says that's my point that's my point i'm not blaming the people

01:30:28.460 who distrust cdc and doj and fbi they're right they're right to distrust them i'm blaming the

01:30:35.100 institutions what they've they've crossed you know we say they use that term they cross the rubicon

01:30:38.780 they have crossed it and we're over here like the duck with the feet under the water furiously

01:30:44.840 saying what happened how do we get out of this crazy mess why are we dealing with foreign 1.00

01:30:49.300 indictments and the possibility of defunding doj and indict impeaching a president you know just to

01:30:55.080 fight fire with fire this is where we are how do we get here but yes it's the institutions that got

01:30:59.740 us here and and i have to say that the democrats running them bingo yeah in addition to getting us

01:31:05.920 here one of the other worst things that these institutions do is they don't recognize their

01:31:10.820 problems they've created in the past so there are plenty of opportunities every single day for a

01:31:16.100 little bit of humility from the cdc from nih from i mean honestly from the fbi i mean people are really

01:31:23.500 concerned about two systems of justice how about you how about you acknowledge that you know like

01:31:28.720 half of this country is is very concerned about that i had a conversation i won't use the guy's name

01:31:34.140 but i have a conversation with a scientist who's very high up in public health and he acknowledged to

01:31:39.580 me he was like we have a lot of shortcomings we created a lot of problems in the past with the way

01:31:44.600 that we messaged um covet i mean you know he went in a little bit deeper and i was like you you just

01:31:49.900 if you just tell people that you know just just let people know that you recognize that that you

01:31:55.340 made mistakes and here's what we're going to try to do to real trust back in we know it's going to

01:31:59.740 take a long time but at least acknowledge it and and i think that it it just makes it so much worse

01:32:05.700 when they act like randy weingarten for example who bent over backwards to keep all of our kids out of

01:32:12.400 school for an extended period of time kids go back to school and now she's like what are you talking

01:32:17.060 about i wanted them to be in the classroom i've been working for him to be in the class she is such

01:32:21.000 a liar you know and like people are fed that stuff every single it just compounds the original problem 0.52

01:32:26.980 and it's just there's no humility from the power it's like it's like hillary clinton in that bite

01:32:32.920 literally sitting there saying truth matters i really just think truth matters stop it just stop

01:32:41.800 it okay go back to chappaqua and enjoy your nice home and your walks in the woods with your weird

01:32:49.940 marriage okay don't lecture the rest of us on truth all right stand by stand by we got more with

01:32:56.060 the ruthless gang straight ahead do you not understand that if donald trump wins nothing

01:33:04.580 else matters because it's over the morning joe might not exist and he will cancel the show i mean

01:33:09.660 you need to think that excuse me that extreme it's over freedom is over if donald trump gets elected it's

01:33:18.120 that simple well in that case let's definitely vote for donald trump

01:33:24.200 they're gonna cancel morning joe i didn't know that was on the ballot oh man i haven't even heard

01:33:32.620 mention that it's amazing i really i really hope we can get that on the official rnc platform in

01:33:38.260 it's the lunacy i mean like he's serious he's not we're laughing but he he actually believes

01:33:45.720 donald trump will personally make sure morning joe gets canceled meanwhile trump more than any other

01:33:50.180 candidate more than joe biden would cross party lines to go on with lefty you know tv hosts and he

01:33:57.520 doesn't care he'll he'll go wherever the cameras are um and the cameras i should mention before we go

01:34:02.880 are going to be on the guys from ruthless the fellas at the debate next week so you guys are like

01:34:09.620 i don't want to call you the warm-up act that may be insulting but what are you how would you

01:34:13.820 describe what you're doing next week yeah i mean look we're doing a big college game day like setting

01:34:18.600 out in front of the debate to sort of preview get the crowd hyped and get everybody sort of focused on

01:34:23.500 what's going to be a really big night we're super excited to be there something brand new in politics

01:34:27.820 right and i love that they've entrusted us to do it and as per your instruction duncan i will be having

01:34:33.500 a shotgun rematch so i mean it's going to be a party everyone's going to be having a good time

01:34:37.380 and uh you know we're going to work on getting a candidate to beat joe biden and get this country back on

01:34:41.900 track and we're not just working on that i'm also really trying to get us a whole hog to smoke right

01:34:47.000 there next to the stage i want to bring a little bit of the party atmosphere there and i think it'll

01:34:51.720 make for uh for a good like hog cam you don't have a roving cameraman at the hog sure this will be

01:34:57.120 fantastic watch out and all i can think of is um streaming live on rumble okay that's good you know all i

01:35:03.540 can think of is that scene in animal house where um the one guy borrows his brother's car and they

01:35:10.880 take the car out and they completely trash the car and the guy who loaned you to them can't believe 0.98

01:35:16.460 it and then i think it's butowsky goes you fucked up you trusted us that could be you guys 0.99

01:35:21.620 that's right we will apologize at the appropriate time 0.98

01:35:30.040 well i for one i'm looking forward to watching that guys i look forward to watching that

01:35:35.400 and we'll see about the debate much more interesting if trump actually shows up

01:35:38.880 that's one of the big question marks between now and then thanks for being here fellas

01:35:42.920 you are the best megan thanks for having us

01:35:45.940 uh we'll do it again soon and we'll be back tomorrow with much much more

01:35:49.740 thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

01:35:57.800 you

01:35:59.800 you

01:36:06.860 you

01:36:08.860 you

01:36:10.860 you

The Megyn Kelly Show - August 15, 2023

Yet Another Trump Indictment, And Why People Don't Trust Institutions, with the Ruthless Hosts, Dave Aronberg, and Mike Davis ｜ Ep. 608

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