The Megyn Kelly Show - August 15, 2023


Yet Another Trump Indictment, And Why People Don't Trust Institutions, with the Ruthless Hosts, Dave Aronberg, and Mike Davis | Ep. 608


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 36 minutes

Words per Minute

184.63985

Word Count

17,765

Sentence Count

211

Misogynist Sentences

43

Hate Speech Sentences

29


Summary

Donald Trump has been charged with racketeering for contesting the results of the 2020 election in Georgia. The charge is based in part on a state law against racketeering, which is typically used to target organized crime. But in this case, the charges stem from Trump's attempt to get Vice President Mike Pence to go along with a plan to swing the election in his favor.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal
00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,
00:00:03.780 I started wondering,
00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?
00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.
00:00:11.260 Are those from Winners?
00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings?
00:00:14.880 Did she pay full price?
00:00:16.620 Or that leather tote?
00:00:17.620 Or that cashmere sweater?
00:00:18.840 Or those knee-high boots?
00:00:20.280 That dress?
00:00:21.060 That jacket?
00:00:21.740 Those shoes?
00:00:22.780 Is anyone paying full price for anything?
00:00:25.780 Stop wondering.
00:00:26.980 Start winning.
00:00:27.920 Winners.
00:00:28.500 Find fabulous for less.
00:00:30.620 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
00:00:32.520 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
00:00:42.180 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.
00:00:43.700 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
00:00:45.920 Donald Trump indicted again.
00:00:49.600 Just like the last one,
00:00:51.460 this one is about him contesting the results of the 2020 election.
00:00:54.900 And it is largely based on a Georgia state law
00:00:57.820 against racketeering,
00:00:59.200 a law typically used to target mobsters.
00:01:02.500 Prosecutor Fannie Willis alleges that Trump's comments,
00:01:06.380 public and private,
00:01:07.800 that he had actually won Georgia's electoral votes,
00:01:10.260 that ballots were fraudulently cast for Joe Biden,
00:01:13.040 that election officials
00:01:14.160 had allegedly manipulated votes in favor of Joe Biden and more,
00:01:18.780 were all part of a criminal scheme
00:01:20.920 by Trump and his cronies
00:01:23.100 to steal the election.
00:01:24.780 She also zeroes in on Trump's efforts
00:01:27.560 to get Vice President Mike Pence
00:01:29.340 to go along with a proposal devised by Trump's attorneys
00:01:32.260 to swing the election in his favor after the vote.
00:01:35.740 The plan laid out in a memo written by attorney John Eastman
00:01:39.480 and another lawyer,
00:01:40.740 both of whom are now indicted,
00:01:43.280 suggests that Team Trump
00:01:44.420 could get Mike Pence
00:01:46.080 to disregard the electoral votes
00:01:48.100 in several swing states
00:01:49.420 and to instead recognize
00:01:51.260 so-called fake
00:01:52.440 or alternate slates of electors
00:01:54.900 from such states
00:01:55.780 that would then cast their electoral votes
00:01:58.180 for Trump
00:01:59.080 instead of Biden.
00:02:00.420 The rationale being that
00:02:02.180 the actual votes
00:02:03.620 coming out of those states
00:02:04.620 were allegedly not to be trusted
00:02:06.640 and therefore the real winner Trump
00:02:08.780 was entitled to the support
00:02:10.800 of the electors.
00:02:12.880 This is also part of Jack Smith's
00:02:15.060 January 6th indictment
00:02:16.320 that came down earlier this month.
00:02:18.920 As expected,
00:02:20.060 Willis casts certain phone calls
00:02:21.980 as criminal as well,
00:02:24.160 including one on January 2nd,
00:02:26.100 2021,
00:02:26.820 in which Trump
00:02:27.480 spoke to Georgia Secretary of State
00:02:29.720 Brad Raffensperger,
00:02:31.620 along with eight others
00:02:32.840 who were on the call
00:02:33.600 and said the following.
00:02:36.280 What are we going to do here, folks?
00:02:37.360 I only need 11,000 votes.
00:02:39.340 Fellas,
00:02:40.040 I need 11,000 votes.
00:02:41.700 Give me a break.
00:02:43.720 Though this is the sentence
00:02:44.960 that has made news
00:02:45.960 for two years
00:02:47.840 as alleged proof positive
00:02:49.800 that Trump was behaving criminally,
00:02:52.740 it's not anywhere close to the focus.
00:02:55.320 I don't even think it's mentioned
00:02:56.240 in Fannie Willis's indictment.
00:02:59.040 This is that
00:02:59.420 because if you read the whole thing,
00:03:00.720 if you listen to the whole transcript
00:03:02.840 between Trump
00:03:04.540 and these nine others
00:03:06.020 on the phone call,
00:03:07.360 you can hear
00:03:08.180 that he's basically saying
00:03:10.080 the reason he chose 11,000 and change
00:03:12.600 is because that's how much
00:03:13.640 he lost Georgia by.
00:03:14.600 And he's saying
00:03:15.280 there was huge fraud
00:03:17.180 in this vote.
00:03:18.380 It's not true,
00:03:19.300 but it's what he was saying.
00:03:20.680 So he was saying,
00:03:21.360 you don't have to do
00:03:21.960 this exhaustive representation,
00:03:24.200 this exhaustive look
00:03:25.360 or investigation
00:03:25.900 into all the votes
00:03:27.020 once I get to 11,750
00:03:29.440 or whatever it was.
00:03:30.700 We're good.
00:03:31.640 But he wasn't saying
00:03:32.280 go make up votes.
00:03:33.580 He was saying
00:03:34.240 there's been massive voter fraud.
00:03:35.840 You only have to look
00:03:36.880 until you find me
00:03:37.580 the number
00:03:38.560 that would put me over the top
00:03:40.000 and then I will stop contesting.
00:03:42.280 And she thinks
00:03:43.440 that was a crime.
00:03:44.620 She thinks
00:03:45.400 the follow up comments
00:03:47.040 on that call,
00:03:48.280 which she does zero in on,
00:03:50.120 were a crime,
00:03:51.820 including this comment.
00:03:52.880 We won very substantially,
00:03:56.120 Georgia.
00:03:58.360 You even see it
00:03:59.480 by rally size, frankly.
00:04:01.300 We have at least
00:04:02.180 two or three,
00:04:03.020 anywhere from 250
00:04:04.540 to 300,000 ballots
00:04:06.340 were dropped
00:04:07.040 mysteriously
00:04:08.220 into the rolls.
00:04:10.000 Much of that
00:04:10.600 had to do
00:04:11.300 with Fulton County,
00:04:12.820 which hasn't been checked.
00:04:14.760 We think that
00:04:15.340 if you check
00:04:15.920 the signatures,
00:04:16.800 a real check
00:04:17.420 of the signatures
00:04:18.160 going back
00:04:19.000 in Fulton County,
00:04:20.440 you'll find
00:04:20.900 at least a couple
00:04:21.740 of hundred thousand
00:04:22.620 of forged signatures
00:04:24.980 of people
00:04:26.280 with that
00:04:27.620 who have been forged.
00:04:30.080 And we are quite sure
00:04:31.660 that's going to happen.
00:04:35.140 OK, he's saying
00:04:36.720 we think
00:04:37.360 this is our opinion.
00:04:38.740 You should check.
00:04:40.080 It's a crime,
00:04:40.780 according to her.
00:04:42.140 These are just
00:04:42.580 a few examples
00:04:43.240 of the behavior
00:04:43.960 Fannie Willis,
00:04:44.720 an elected Democrat
00:04:45.860 prosecutor,
00:04:47.020 says amounted
00:04:48.080 to a criminal
00:04:49.040 attempt to unlawfully
00:04:50.280 change the outcome
00:04:51.140 of the 2020
00:04:51.860 presidential election.
00:04:53.660 In all,
00:04:54.340 there are 13 counts
00:04:55.560 against Trump,
00:04:56.580 including violation
00:04:57.280 of the Georgia.
00:04:58.040 This is a state case.
00:04:59.020 Remember,
00:04:59.520 it's important
00:05:00.060 and we'll get to why
00:05:00.980 of the Georgia
00:05:01.980 RICO statute.
00:05:02.840 That's the racketeering count,
00:05:04.020 as well as solicitation
00:05:05.660 of violation
00:05:06.800 of an oath
00:05:08.180 by a public officer
00:05:09.540 and several
00:05:11.200 alleged conspiracies,
00:05:12.280 including to commit
00:05:13.300 the impersonation
00:05:14.360 of a public officer,
00:05:15.520 to commit forgery,
00:05:17.380 to commit false statements,
00:05:18.820 and to commit filing
00:05:20.420 false documents.
00:05:21.980 All those revolve
00:05:23.020 around the facts
00:05:23.600 that I just laid out
00:05:24.440 for you from the indictment.
00:05:26.900 Eighteen others
00:05:28.540 have also been indicted.
00:05:30.940 Eighteen men
00:05:32.540 and women
00:05:33.120 who assisted Trump
00:05:33.880 in these efforts,
00:05:34.700 lawyers,
00:05:35.620 alternate electors,
00:05:36.880 people who arranged
00:05:37.820 phone calls
00:05:38.860 for Trump
00:05:39.860 to state election officials
00:05:41.580 in swing states
00:05:42.500 other than Georgia,
00:05:43.900 a publicist,
00:05:44.740 I could go on.
00:05:45.960 They're all accused
00:05:46.820 of assisting Trump
00:05:47.620 in this alleged
00:05:48.780 corrupt conspiracy
00:05:50.500 and also face
00:05:52.640 their own allegations
00:05:53.360 of misconduct,
00:05:54.280 including the unlawful
00:05:55.980 breach of election
00:05:57.160 equipment in Georgia
00:05:58.480 and elsewhere.
00:05:59.400 This is based
00:05:59.840 on Trump's allies
00:06:00.620 pursuant to a plan
00:06:01.640 allegedly hatched
00:06:02.320 by Rudy Giuliani
00:06:03.140 to access
00:06:04.160 the voting machines
00:06:05.400 and voter data
00:06:06.980 after the election.
00:06:09.260 They were allowed
00:06:10.200 into a facility
00:06:11.040 in a Trump-friendly
00:06:12.400 Georgia county
00:06:13.420 to do this,
00:06:15.020 to kick the tires
00:06:15.860 of the Dominion
00:06:16.360 voting machines
00:06:17.040 by Trump-friendly
00:06:18.320 election supervisors,
00:06:19.980 one of whom
00:06:20.740 is also now indicted.
00:06:22.400 Now, the case
00:06:23.240 has been assigned
00:06:23.780 to Judge Scott,
00:06:25.020 I don't know
00:06:25.340 if it's McAfee
00:06:26.120 or McAfee,
00:06:27.380 but he was appointed
00:06:28.680 to the bench
00:06:29.220 six months ago
00:06:30.460 by Georgia's
00:06:31.340 Republican Governor
00:06:32.240 Brian Kemp.
00:06:33.780 The prosecutor,
00:06:34.480 Fannie Willis,
00:06:34.940 said last night
00:06:35.500 she hopes to try
00:06:36.380 this thing
00:06:36.860 within the next
00:06:38.620 six months,
00:06:39.600 notwithstanding the fact
00:06:40.900 that it apparently
00:06:41.420 took her
00:06:42.020 two and a half years
00:06:43.660 to prepare her case.
00:06:46.060 Prep time for me,
00:06:47.260 but not for thee,
00:06:48.600 it would appear.
00:06:49.500 Listen.
00:06:51.120 I am giving
00:06:52.300 the defendants
00:06:53.280 the opportunity
00:06:54.080 to voluntarily surrender
00:06:56.300 no later
00:06:57.440 than noon
00:06:58.340 on Friday,
00:07:00.240 the 25th day
00:07:01.220 of August
00:07:01.960 2023.
00:07:03.640 I don't have
00:07:05.000 any desire
00:07:06.020 to be first
00:07:06.720 or last.
00:07:07.400 I want to try him
00:07:08.340 and be respectful
00:07:09.080 for our sovereign states.
00:07:10.920 We do want to move
00:07:12.040 this case along,
00:07:13.060 and so we will be
00:07:14.280 asking for a proposed
00:07:15.320 order that occurs
00:07:16.620 a trial date
00:07:17.700 within the next
00:07:18.320 six months.
00:07:19.200 Do I intend to try
00:07:20.000 the 19 defendants
00:07:21.060 in this indictment
00:07:21.680 together?
00:07:22.580 Yes.
00:07:24.100 Okay,
00:07:24.540 good luck with that.
00:07:25.660 Joining me now
00:07:26.100 to discuss it all
00:07:27.000 are all-star
00:07:28.100 indictment lawyers
00:07:29.180 Mike Davis,
00:07:30.100 who is the founder
00:07:30.680 and president
00:07:31.220 of the Article 3 Project,
00:07:32.900 which defends
00:07:33.580 constitutionalist judges
00:07:34.880 and the rule of law,
00:07:36.100 and also with us
00:07:37.380 is Dave Ehrenberg.
00:07:38.500 He's the state attorney
00:07:39.300 for Palm Beach County,
00:07:40.140 Florida,
00:07:40.460 where Mar-a-Lago
00:07:41.060 is located.
00:07:41.540 You can find Mike
00:07:42.780 on Fox News.
00:07:44.060 You can find Dave
00:07:44.820 on MSNBC,
00:07:46.220 but the only place
00:07:47.220 to find them together
00:07:47.980 is right here.
00:07:49.320 Welcome back, guys.
00:07:49.980 Great to have you.
00:07:51.440 Thank you for having us.
00:07:53.800 So I gotta say,
00:07:55.100 I wasn't particularly
00:07:55.840 surprised by the charges
00:07:57.340 brought by Willis
00:07:59.080 in this case.
00:08:00.060 Mike,
00:08:00.960 I was surprised
00:08:01.980 at the 18 others
00:08:03.540 who also got indicted.
00:08:05.220 But what's your take
00:08:06.840 on what she's alleging
00:08:09.060 is criminal behavior
00:08:09.960 in this indictment?
00:08:11.540 I've read this
00:08:12.460 through this indictment
00:08:13.480 a couple times,
00:08:14.340 and it is,
00:08:15.360 it's loud,
00:08:16.800 it's long,
00:08:17.620 and it's lawless.
00:08:19.240 And the problem
00:08:20.380 with her indictment,
00:08:22.280 the fundamental problem
00:08:23.380 with this indictment
00:08:24.420 is she's essentially,
00:08:27.100 she's bringing
00:08:28.020 a mob statue,
00:08:29.400 a RICO statue
00:08:30.820 that you use
00:08:32.860 to take out the mob
00:08:34.400 to take out
00:08:35.100 your political enemies.
00:08:36.200 And the fundamental flaw
00:08:38.240 with her entire complaint,
00:08:40.140 and frankly,
00:08:40.620 the same fundamental flaw
00:08:41.860 with Jack Smith's
00:08:43.500 January 6th complaint,
00:08:45.140 is they are not alleging
00:08:47.320 that President Trump
00:08:49.180 incited the right
00:08:51.020 on January 6th.
00:08:52.320 They're not alleging
00:08:53.420 any force,
00:08:54.900 any violence,
00:08:55.720 any threats
00:08:56.280 of force or violence.
00:08:57.820 And they're not alleging
00:08:59.400 actual fraud.
00:09:00.740 They're not alleging
00:09:01.560 that Donald Trump
00:09:02.740 had Rudy Giuliani
00:09:04.340 tie up the real electors
00:09:06.040 and put them
00:09:06.520 in Rudy's trunk
00:09:07.440 and then gave
00:09:08.600 these fake electors
00:09:10.300 fake IDs
00:09:11.000 to go in
00:09:11.480 and pretend
00:09:11.820 like they were
00:09:12.340 the real electors.
00:09:14.040 What happens here
00:09:15.200 is what happens
00:09:16.040 in prior elections
00:09:17.080 is you contest elections
00:09:19.300 through the
00:09:19.820 Electoral Count Act
00:09:21.180 of 1887
00:09:22.620 and you twist arms
00:09:24.360 politically,
00:09:25.120 which is allowed
00:09:25.900 by the First Amendment.
00:09:27.680 And part of that
00:09:28.520 includes putting up
00:09:29.660 an alternate slate
00:09:31.080 of electors
00:09:32.000 in case you prevail
00:09:33.920 legally and politically
00:09:35.000 your people are in place
00:09:36.420 if you win
00:09:37.760 those legal
00:09:38.420 and political challenges
00:09:39.640 so you can win
00:09:41.120 the election.
00:09:41.980 And it might be
00:09:43.020 an ugly process.
00:09:45.180 You know,
00:09:45.460 it's not pretty,
00:09:47.300 but it might be unseemly,
00:09:48.700 but it's not a felony.
00:09:49.920 It's not illegal
00:09:50.620 to contest elections
00:09:53.280 in America.
00:09:54.220 It's only illegal
00:09:55.180 to contest elections
00:09:56.520 in third world
00:09:57.940 Marxist hellholes
00:09:58.900 like Zimbabwe
00:09:59.800 and now Washington,
00:10:01.540 D.C.
00:10:02.100 and Atlanta
00:10:02.660 and New York.
00:10:03.300 Before I bring in Dave,
00:10:05.260 a follow up for you,
00:10:06.180 Mike,
00:10:06.580 it's true that
00:10:07.940 the so-called fake electors
00:10:09.440 or alternate slates
00:10:10.620 of electors
00:10:11.300 were never,
00:10:12.940 you know,
00:10:13.720 no one showed up
00:10:14.420 in Washington saying,
00:10:15.480 Georgia votes
00:10:16.540 for Donald Trump.
00:10:17.540 You know,
00:10:17.680 no one was fooled.
00:10:18.520 It didn't actually,
00:10:19.060 but she's alleging
00:10:20.200 conspiracy to conspiracy
00:10:22.540 to get these
00:10:24.280 sort of fake electors
00:10:25.500 out there
00:10:26.100 and steal the vote
00:10:27.260 from Georgians,
00:10:28.180 which,
00:10:28.800 you know,
00:10:29.420 by itself would suggest,
00:10:30.820 okay,
00:10:31.120 it doesn't actually
00:10:31.820 have to be completed.
00:10:33.800 It's the act
00:10:35.100 of planning
00:10:35.800 and then you need
00:10:36.620 at least one overt act
00:10:37.600 in furtherance
00:10:38.300 of the conspiracy,
00:10:38.900 which she has
00:10:39.700 because she says
00:10:40.220 that they came up
00:10:40.800 with the names
00:10:41.260 and they created the slate.
00:10:42.500 So why do we care
00:10:43.940 as a legal matter
00:10:44.860 that no one
00:10:47.040 was actually fooled?
00:10:47.920 Well, Megan
00:10:49.780 and both Megan
00:10:50.980 and Dave,
00:10:51.740 you both know
00:10:52.680 that as lawyers
00:10:53.780 that in order
00:10:54.800 to have a conspiracy,
00:10:56.840 you have to be
00:10:58.580 doing something illegal.
00:10:59.800 You have to plan
00:11:01.360 with others
00:11:02.100 to do something illegal.
00:11:03.680 It's not illegal
00:11:04.660 to challenge elections.
00:11:06.200 It's actually permitted
00:11:07.900 by the Electoral
00:11:09.200 Count Act of 1887
00:11:10.840 and it's permitted
00:11:12.100 by the First Amendment.
00:11:13.260 So you'd have to show
00:11:14.080 that they can,
00:11:15.600 you'd have to show here
00:11:16.660 that President Trump
00:11:17.680 conspired to tie up
00:11:20.260 the real electors
00:11:21.120 and put them
00:11:21.560 in Rudy Giuliani's trunk
00:11:23.200 of his car
00:11:24.500 versus you,
00:11:26.440 you conspired
00:11:27.860 to put forward
00:11:29.360 an alternate slate
00:11:30.260 of electors,
00:11:30.900 which you're allowed
00:11:31.400 to do under
00:11:32.000 the Electoral Count Act
00:11:33.320 of 1887.
00:11:34.440 And we talked about
00:11:35.640 this the last time,
00:11:36.400 Dave,
00:11:36.620 that this was done.
00:11:38.160 It was done by Jack Kennedy,
00:11:40.020 you know,
00:11:40.900 decades ago saying,
00:11:42.820 I don't think
00:11:43.280 that we've come
00:11:43.780 to the right conclusion
00:11:44.620 in Hawaii.
00:11:45.820 I'm going to submit
00:11:46.780 my own alternate slate
00:11:48.300 of electors
00:11:48.820 giving me Hawaii's
00:11:49.920 electoral votes
00:11:50.700 because I believe
00:11:51.380 I actually won Hawaii
00:11:52.640 and he succeeded
00:11:54.500 in doing that.
00:11:55.400 And I guess it was
00:11:55.880 a good thing
00:11:56.400 that he had his,
00:11:57.220 quote,
00:11:57.320 fake slate of electors
00:11:58.400 or alternate slate
00:11:59.200 ready to go.
00:12:01.120 But it didn't turn out
00:12:02.120 that way for Trump.
00:12:03.220 And I,
00:12:03.900 you know,
00:12:04.000 he didn't prove
00:12:05.160 electoral fraud
00:12:06.100 that would have
00:12:06.600 gotten him
00:12:07.140 to state of Georgia
00:12:07.760 or any other state.
00:12:09.100 But just the mere act
00:12:10.760 of conspiring
00:12:11.660 was conspiring
00:12:12.380 is a scary word.
00:12:13.320 But to Mike's point,
00:12:15.100 it's not you.
00:12:16.600 The three of us
00:12:17.220 are conspiring
00:12:17.860 to do a good podcast
00:12:19.040 right now.
00:12:19.720 Like just getting together
00:12:20.960 and discussing
00:12:22.020 your plan to do something
00:12:23.240 is OK,
00:12:24.440 unless that what
00:12:25.300 you're going to do
00:12:25.960 is illegal.
00:12:27.120 And so this is
00:12:27.940 what we're trying
00:12:28.300 to get to.
00:12:28.660 Why is it illegal
00:12:29.460 just to have
00:12:30.240 an alternate slate
00:12:31.080 of electors?
00:12:31.600 Why is it illegal
00:12:32.340 to say I think I won?
00:12:33.540 Why is it illegal
00:12:34.140 to say I think
00:12:34.820 if you go back
00:12:35.240 and check the rolls,
00:12:36.100 you're going to find
00:12:36.860 fraudulent votes?
00:12:38.220 You know,
00:12:38.560 I want you to go back
00:12:39.460 and do that.
00:12:40.420 Why is all that illegal?
00:12:41.440 Well, first off,
00:12:43.540 it's good to be back
00:12:44.080 with you, Megan,
00:12:44.700 and with my friend, Mike.
00:12:46.840 It is not illegal
00:12:48.220 to have alternate electors,
00:12:50.960 the electors
00:12:51.540 that are there
00:12:52.400 in case the actual electors
00:12:54.440 are rejected.
00:12:55.360 In fact,
00:12:55.800 in two of the seven states,
00:12:57.720 they said,
00:12:58.620 we are doing this
00:12:59.880 just in case
00:13:00.580 you don't accept
00:13:02.060 the original electors.
00:13:03.220 And in those two states,
00:13:04.300 I think it's Pennsylvania
00:13:05.080 and New Mexico,
00:13:06.160 it is not a crime.
00:13:07.220 But the problem is
00:13:08.400 in the other five states,
00:13:09.520 including Georgia
00:13:10.220 and including Michigan,
00:13:11.440 these folks
00:13:12.620 were not the true electors
00:13:14.380 and represented themselves
00:13:15.680 as the true electors.
00:13:16.880 They even went so far
00:13:17.720 in Michigan as to say,
00:13:18.820 we met on this date
00:13:20.520 inside the Capitol.
00:13:22.080 And then they had
00:13:23.040 the seal of Michigan,
00:13:24.740 which was forged.
00:13:25.740 And so that's a crime.
00:13:26.720 It's a crime in Georgia,
00:13:27.660 too.
00:13:27.960 Forgery is a crime
00:13:29.000 and making false statements
00:13:30.720 to government officials
00:13:31.560 is a crime.
00:13:32.620 And that's where
00:13:33.680 they got them.
00:13:34.860 Now,
00:13:34.960 as far as whether Trump
00:13:36.180 was involved.
00:13:36.660 Just before you leave
00:13:37.400 that point.
00:13:37.880 And then what did they do?
00:13:38.620 So they got together
00:13:39.520 and they said,
00:13:40.440 we're the real electors
00:13:42.260 and we'd say
00:13:43.180 Donald Trump won.
00:13:44.300 And then what happened?
00:13:45.440 Like,
00:13:45.560 to whom did they say that?
00:13:46.920 How did that become
00:13:48.380 public and notorious?
00:13:50.460 You know,
00:13:50.840 if they just sat
00:13:51.420 in somebody's bedroom
00:13:52.140 and said,
00:13:52.540 yeah,
00:13:53.180 I mean,
00:13:53.860 the three of us
00:13:54.620 could be like,
00:13:55.060 we're the real electors
00:13:56.260 and we're voting
00:13:56.900 for RFKJ,
00:13:58.160 whatever.
00:13:58.780 What happened
00:13:59.460 after they got together
00:14:00.280 and said,
00:14:00.600 we're the real ones?
00:14:01.340 they sent
00:14:03.580 the fake document
00:14:05.960 to Washington,
00:14:08.340 D.C.
00:14:08.640 to be counted.
00:14:09.740 And that's the problem.
00:14:10.600 It was given to Mike Pence
00:14:11.760 and he rejected it.
00:14:13.800 But the hope was
00:14:14.740 that he would have
00:14:15.680 two slates
00:14:16.360 and then that would give him
00:14:17.660 a reason
00:14:19.120 to send it back
00:14:20.280 to the states.
00:14:20.940 It was all part
00:14:21.640 of a scheme
00:14:22.960 to try to influence
00:14:24.940 Mike Pence
00:14:25.520 to send it back
00:14:26.280 to the states
00:14:26.700 when that would have
00:14:29.300 been improper
00:14:29.960 because first,
00:14:31.440 there was no
00:14:32.160 election fraud
00:14:33.440 that was documented.
00:14:35.520 And number two,
00:14:36.560 the electors
00:14:37.320 were not alternate electors,
00:14:39.400 but they're trying
00:14:40.260 to make it seem
00:14:41.180 like they're the real ones
00:14:42.220 and that's the problem here.
00:14:43.680 And then on top
00:14:44.340 of all that,
00:14:45.300 the comments
00:14:46.100 that made to Mike Pence,
00:14:47.560 you know,
00:14:47.880 that you're too honest
00:14:48.720 and all that stuff,
00:14:49.300 that's at the federal level.
00:14:51.020 Here, Megan,
00:14:52.240 this is where
00:14:53.020 I think this case
00:14:54.000 is stronger
00:14:54.580 than Jack Smith's case
00:14:55.800 because when it comes
00:14:56.660 to enforcing election laws,
00:14:58.740 it's really a state
00:14:59.920 function more
00:15:00.940 than a federal function.
00:15:02.720 And that's why
00:15:03.340 you correctly said
00:15:04.720 and Mike said
00:15:05.320 that some of the laws
00:15:06.200 that Jack Smith
00:15:07.440 were using
00:15:08.160 may get some
00:15:09.340 pushback in the courts,
00:15:10.720 obstruction of an
00:15:11.420 official proceeding,
00:15:12.820 conspiracy to fraud
00:15:13.940 the United States.
00:15:14.720 But here at the state level,
00:15:15.900 it's different.
00:15:16.480 They're using forgery.
00:15:18.020 They're using improper
00:15:19.300 influence of an election
00:15:20.480 official,
00:15:21.560 conspiracy to commit
00:15:23.100 election fraud.
00:15:23.940 These are state crimes
00:15:25.040 much easier to prove
00:15:26.460 at the state level.
00:15:27.580 And then you have RICO,
00:15:28.440 which we can get into also,
00:15:29.560 which is a prosecutor's
00:15:30.940 best friend
00:15:31.640 and a bane
00:15:32.720 to the existence
00:15:33.380 of defense lawyers.
00:15:34.880 I agree with everything
00:15:35.460 you just said
00:15:35.900 on the back end there.
00:15:36.780 I mean,
00:15:37.100 he's right about
00:15:37.700 all that, Mike, right?
00:15:38.460 It's it's state elections
00:15:40.040 are normally handled
00:15:40.720 by state law.
00:15:41.700 I mean,
00:15:42.100 it's one of the reasons
00:15:42.860 the Jack Smith indictment
00:15:43.900 on J6 is so weird
00:15:45.260 and off point
00:15:46.400 and such a reach.
00:15:47.960 So, yes,
00:15:48.540 they are normally
00:15:49.160 governed by state law
00:15:50.140 and RICO
00:15:50.660 is a defendant's
00:15:52.240 worst nightmare.
00:15:53.500 And this Fannie Willis
00:15:54.520 loves to use RICO,
00:15:56.140 the racketeering law
00:15:57.020 that usually gets
00:15:57.840 gets a mobster
00:15:58.900 so you can get
00:15:59.280 the mob boss
00:16:00.160 and you can get
00:16:01.100 the hit man
00:16:01.880 and you can get
00:16:02.760 the dime store drop guy.
00:16:04.660 You know,
00:16:04.780 you can get them all
00:16:05.620 under this sort of
00:16:07.040 racketeering and corrupt
00:16:08.080 influence statute.
00:16:09.140 But he's right about
00:16:10.500 the law
00:16:10.920 and that this should be
00:16:11.560 an easier go for her.
00:16:12.720 But she still has to show.
00:16:14.280 I mean,
00:16:14.420 the mob boss,
00:16:15.720 you know,
00:16:16.420 shaking down
00:16:17.320 the 7-Eleven worker
00:16:18.620 to pay you protection money
00:16:20.100 is very clearly a crime.
00:16:21.880 So it does matter
00:16:23.460 to your point earlier.
00:16:24.400 What is the alleged
00:16:26.120 conspiracy here doing
00:16:27.580 that's unlawful?
00:16:28.720 I see the point
00:16:30.020 on the fake electors.
00:16:31.120 OK,
00:16:31.300 maybe sending the fake
00:16:32.340 electors there
00:16:33.080 and them representing
00:16:34.680 that they're the real ones.
00:16:35.960 Maybe we're closer.
00:16:37.280 But like Trump
00:16:37.940 just on the phone call
00:16:38.940 saying,
00:16:39.400 check the signatures,
00:16:40.660 you're going to find
00:16:41.380 hundreds of thousands
00:16:42.200 of fraudulent votes.
00:16:43.500 How is that?
00:16:44.140 That's Stacey Abrams 2.0.
00:16:47.460 Well,
00:16:47.960 first,
00:16:48.240 I would say that
00:16:49.040 actually,
00:16:49.400 if you look
00:16:50.140 at the Constitution,
00:16:52.000 at the elections
00:16:52.780 clause of the Constitution,
00:16:55.420 the states have,
00:16:57.460 both of you
00:16:58.520 are absolutely right.
00:16:59.480 The states have
00:17:00.560 a lot of leeway
00:17:01.880 to set their own
00:17:02.740 election laws
00:17:03.540 for federal elections
00:17:05.140 and less Congress acts.
00:17:07.100 And Congress acted here
00:17:08.400 with the Electoral Count Act
00:17:10.340 of 1887.
00:17:11.520 So that is
00:17:12.080 the supreme law
00:17:14.180 of the land.
00:17:14.700 That trumps
00:17:15.200 any of these state laws.
00:17:16.340 And so if you look
00:17:17.000 at the process
00:17:18.160 and procedures
00:17:19.140 for certifying
00:17:21.000 an election
00:17:21.540 before Congress
00:17:22.840 on January 6th,
00:17:23.800 that's controlled
00:17:24.320 by the Electoral Count Act
00:17:25.700 of 1887.
00:17:27.320 So I would
00:17:27.680 say that point.
00:17:30.320 And so,
00:17:31.120 you know,
00:17:31.660 I actually think
00:17:32.840 that this is a laughable
00:17:33.900 case down in Georgia
00:17:36.180 because it is
00:17:37.760 ignoring that
00:17:38.540 and it's trying
00:17:39.080 to criminalize
00:17:40.300 the political process.
00:17:42.320 It's trying
00:17:42.940 to politicize,
00:17:44.420 it's trying
00:17:44.760 to criminalize
00:17:46.540 making legal
00:17:47.520 and political
00:17:48.280 challenges
00:17:49.420 under the Electoral
00:17:50.740 Count Act
00:17:51.580 of 1887
00:17:52.880 by using
00:17:53.620 a novel,
00:17:55.320 I wouldn't say
00:17:55.920 bizarre,
00:17:56.860 but to be kind,
00:17:57.740 I'll say a novel
00:17:58.460 legal theory
00:17:59.420 here by Fannie Willis
00:18:01.180 charging
00:18:03.300 a RICO
00:18:04.420 violation
00:18:05.100 and,
00:18:05.520 you know,
00:18:05.880 an organized crime
00:18:06.740 conspiracy
00:18:07.460 to go after
00:18:08.640 your political
00:18:09.240 opponents,
00:18:10.160 the leading
00:18:10.740 presidential candidate
00:18:11.840 and 18 of his
00:18:13.300 lawyers and advisors
00:18:14.760 because you don't
00:18:16.280 like their legal
00:18:17.040 theory,
00:18:17.600 right?
00:18:18.040 That's not how
00:18:19.460 it works in America
00:18:20.600 up until now.
00:18:22.100 It used to not
00:18:22.680 be a crime
00:18:23.380 to challenge
00:18:24.400 elections.
00:18:25.120 It used to be,
00:18:26.100 it used to not
00:18:26.700 be a crime
00:18:27.300 to even bring
00:18:28.440 novel,
00:18:29.220 even wacky
00:18:29.860 legal theories.
00:18:31.640 You know,
00:18:31.800 what's weird,
00:18:32.320 Dave,
00:18:32.520 is if you take
00:18:33.240 a look at
00:18:33.580 the nitty-gritty
00:18:34.060 of this thing,
00:18:34.720 you got Mark Meadows,
00:18:36.280 Trump's former
00:18:36.800 chief of staff,
00:18:38.000 who was granted
00:18:38.480 federal immunity
00:18:39.160 to cooperate
00:18:39.960 in the
00:18:40.420 Jack Smith
00:18:40.820 investigation,
00:18:42.240 not indicted
00:18:43.440 in that case,
00:18:44.720 indicted
00:18:45.160 in this case.
00:18:47.020 And as far
00:18:47.680 as I can tell,
00:18:48.680 his alleged crime
00:18:49.740 is he called
00:18:51.180 somebody to say,
00:18:52.700 hey,
00:18:52.820 can you give me
00:18:53.420 the number
00:18:54.060 of some
00:18:54.740 local official
00:18:56.080 in Pennsylvania
00:18:56.920 where Trump
00:18:57.660 was doing
00:18:58.100 similar stuff,
00:18:59.020 trying to contest
00:18:59.600 the vote there?
00:19:00.420 I mean,
00:19:00.600 he was reaching
00:19:01.440 out to somebody
00:19:02.100 for a phone number.
00:19:03.440 How is that a crime?
00:19:04.720 This is nuts.
00:19:06.140 It smacks
00:19:07.000 of overreach.
00:19:07.780 Well,
00:19:09.720 conspiracy laws
00:19:10.440 are broad.
00:19:11.200 If you engage
00:19:12.380 in an illegal
00:19:13.580 conspiracy,
00:19:14.420 in this case,
00:19:15.240 it's to interfere
00:19:16.600 with election
00:19:17.040 officials,
00:19:17.780 in this case,
00:19:18.600 it's to commit
00:19:20.100 election fraud,
00:19:21.460 then all you have
00:19:22.180 to be part
00:19:22.720 of the agreement,
00:19:23.660 and then one member
00:19:24.760 of the conspiracy
00:19:25.520 has to commit
00:19:26.300 an overt act,
00:19:27.320 and then you're
00:19:27.740 all done.
00:19:29.060 And racketeering
00:19:30.000 is even broader
00:19:31.340 than that,
00:19:31.860 where you can bring
00:19:32.460 in the boss,
00:19:33.180 in this case,
00:19:33.780 Donald Trump,
00:19:34.380 and you can get
00:19:35.760 him,
00:19:36.120 even if he's
00:19:36.960 not the one
00:19:37.440 who ordered
00:19:37.880 something to happen,
00:19:38.820 even if he's
00:19:39.460 unaware of some
00:19:40.900 of the actions
00:19:41.480 of people
00:19:41.960 who are there
00:19:42.480 for the common
00:19:43.060 enterprise,
00:19:44.020 he could be
00:19:44.440 brought in,
00:19:44.940 and that's why
00:19:45.680 the RICO laws
00:19:47.020 frustrate so many
00:19:48.020 defense lawyers.
00:19:49.080 And on Mark Meadows,
00:19:49.900 I thought it was
00:19:50.400 really interesting
00:19:51.040 that they included
00:19:52.000 him in the indictment
00:19:53.340 because of what
00:19:54.400 you said.
00:19:55.360 He was given
00:19:55.900 immunity,
00:19:56.460 apparently,
00:19:56.840 at the federal level,
00:19:57.620 and I think
00:19:58.020 that's going to
00:19:58.820 create some issues
00:19:59.960 with his prosecution
00:20:01.400 at the state level,
00:20:02.160 unless he was
00:20:03.320 hiding stuff
00:20:04.020 from Jack Smith
00:20:04.720 and then he's
00:20:05.980 got some real
00:20:06.460 problems.
00:20:07.040 But it shows you
00:20:07.820 the breadth
00:20:08.320 of this indictment
00:20:09.120 that they included
00:20:09.740 Mark Meadows
00:20:10.360 and they included
00:20:10.960 names in their
00:20:12.120 19 defendants
00:20:13.540 that we've never
00:20:14.000 even heard before.
00:20:15.340 And so this is
00:20:16.000 different than
00:20:17.560 what Jack Smith did.
00:20:18.560 Jack Smith had
00:20:19.040 a limited,
00:20:19.940 modest indictment.
00:20:21.400 He just went
00:20:22.280 after charges
00:20:23.400 he thought he could
00:20:24.120 prove beyond a
00:20:24.780 reasonable doubt
00:20:25.380 and he was built
00:20:26.540 for speed.
00:20:27.360 He wants this
00:20:27.960 to be done
00:20:28.420 before the election.
00:20:29.640 I agree with you.
00:20:30.520 I don't think
00:20:30.940 this can be done
00:20:31.780 all at once
00:20:32.780 and I don't
00:20:33.320 think it can be
00:20:33.820 done before
00:20:34.360 the election
00:20:34.860 because Fannie
00:20:35.600 Willis decided
00:20:36.280 to take a
00:20:37.080 blowtorch to it
00:20:38.000 and look,
00:20:38.940 it's a powerful
00:20:39.420 case,
00:20:40.300 but I think
00:20:40.840 this is going
00:20:41.360 to take a while.
00:20:43.100 And Mike,
00:20:43.320 I want to ask
00:20:44.260 you,
00:20:45.140 so you've already
00:20:45.820 gotten,
00:20:46.320 I mean,
00:20:46.480 I mentioned
00:20:46.760 Stacey Abrams
00:20:47.980 in my question
00:20:50.140 a minute ago.
00:20:51.280 Stacey Abrams
00:20:52.120 just went back
00:20:53.120 just to look
00:20:53.760 at it for fun.
00:20:56.160 After she lost
00:20:57.000 the 2018 Georgia
00:20:58.060 gubernatorial race,
00:20:59.000 she refused
00:21:00.620 to concede
00:21:01.220 to Brian Kemp
00:21:02.640 who is the
00:21:03.440 sitting governor
00:21:03.920 of Georgia
00:21:04.440 and said
00:21:05.880 we had this
00:21:06.820 little election
00:21:07.380 back in 2018
00:21:08.200 the following year
00:21:08.900 she said this
00:21:09.380 despite the final
00:21:10.200 tally and the
00:21:10.900 inauguration
00:21:11.520 and the situation
00:21:12.580 we find ourselves
00:21:13.220 in.
00:21:13.600 I do have one
00:21:14.220 very affirmative
00:21:14.840 statement to make.
00:21:16.020 We won
00:21:16.640 on several occasions.
00:21:18.160 She claimed she
00:21:18.640 had won
00:21:19.080 and she was proud
00:21:20.440 that she hadn't
00:21:21.080 conceded.
00:21:22.460 She was saying
00:21:23.320 that the Republicans
00:21:24.000 had suppressed
00:21:25.140 the black vote
00:21:26.240 and that
00:21:26.980 didn't get
00:21:28.240 indicted.
00:21:29.000 She did not
00:21:29.420 get indicted
00:21:29.880 and that reminds
00:21:31.080 me of another
00:21:31.740 election denier.
00:21:33.060 I mean you could
00:21:33.360 go through the list
00:21:33.940 because there are
00:21:34.760 all these memes
00:21:35.480 online showing
00:21:36.760 all the Democrats
00:21:37.420 who have denied
00:21:38.020 elections in particular
00:21:39.360 Donald Trump's win.
00:21:40.600 Chief among them
00:21:41.720 Hillary Clinton.
00:21:43.600 How many times
00:21:44.440 did she say
00:21:45.240 he was not
00:21:46.500 a legitimate president
00:21:47.620 that she actually
00:21:48.880 won the 2016
00:21:50.040 election
00:21:50.620 and then
00:21:52.160 you had
00:21:53.020 this exchange
00:21:53.980 last night.
00:21:56.640 Rachel Maddow
00:21:57.740 has her on
00:21:59.100 and the
00:22:00.260 do we have
00:22:00.840 the soundbite
00:22:01.280 you guys
00:22:01.560 that I just
00:22:02.000 asked for
00:22:02.420 where Rachel
00:22:03.500 Maddow
00:22:05.120 tosses to Hillary
00:22:06.300 listen to how
00:22:07.900 she sets it up
00:22:08.900 and to the
00:22:09.880 quick Hillary
00:22:10.360 response.
00:22:11.080 It's unbelievable.
00:22:11.900 If we no longer
00:22:13.720 believe that our
00:22:15.020 will is
00:22:15.940 effectuated
00:22:16.640 through the
00:22:17.080 system
00:22:17.420 if bad
00:22:18.980 actors tell
00:22:19.980 us falsely
00:22:20.740 that every
00:22:21.120 election is
00:22:21.720 stolen
00:22:22.060 and that the
00:22:22.920 only way an
00:22:23.520 election is
00:22:24.640 trustworthy is
00:22:26.360 if they come
00:22:26.920 out on top
00:22:27.700 of it
00:22:28.040 then something
00:22:29.740 it tells you
00:22:31.120 something not
00:22:31.540 just about that
00:22:32.140 person or that
00:22:32.860 moment
00:22:33.260 it maybe
00:22:34.920 wounds us
00:22:35.760 as a democracy
00:22:36.580 and in a way
00:22:37.420 that is hard
00:22:37.980 to repair.
00:22:38.940 Well I think
00:22:39.840 you know
00:22:40.800 the truth
00:22:41.240 matters.
00:22:42.480 So like the
00:22:43.680 lack of self
00:22:44.780 awareness in that
00:22:45.640 Rachel Maddow
00:22:46.200 question Mike
00:22:46.860 right?
00:22:47.800 How could we
00:22:48.260 possibly have
00:22:48.920 these elections
00:22:49.420 where someone's
00:22:49.940 challenging them
00:22:50.720 out all the
00:22:51.120 time and
00:22:51.520 questioning
00:22:51.860 truth?
00:22:53.200 This
00:22:53.720 I'm gonna
00:22:56.460 my head is
00:22:57.000 gonna explode.
00:22:57.900 It goes to
00:22:58.600 what we're
00:22:58.920 discussing.
00:22:59.760 Hillary Clinton
00:23:00.360 is an election
00:23:00.980 denier.
00:23:01.580 Stacey Abrams
00:23:02.340 is an election
00:23:02.940 denier.
00:23:03.720 Joe Lieberman
00:23:04.380 is an election
00:23:04.860 denier.
00:23:05.300 Al Gore
00:23:05.860 is an election
00:23:06.360 denier.
00:23:06.840 We could go
00:23:07.120 down the list
00:23:07.700 of the
00:23:08.000 candidates
00:23:08.360 who've
00:23:09.240 lost
00:23:09.800 who've
00:23:10.480 spent
00:23:10.760 months
00:23:11.280 and
00:23:11.560 years
00:23:12.080 saying
00:23:12.500 it's
00:23:12.760 not
00:23:13.060 true
00:23:13.420 I
00:23:13.760 won.
00:23:14.520 Only
00:23:15.040 Donald
00:23:15.460 Trump
00:23:15.840 gets
00:23:16.360 his
00:23:16.840 behavior
00:23:17.280 and
00:23:17.460 questions
00:23:17.920 criminalized.
00:23:20.540 Yeah I would
00:23:21.580 say if there
00:23:22.260 is a God
00:23:23.180 he will make
00:23:24.420 sure that
00:23:25.440 Joe Biden
00:23:26.080 steps aside
00:23:26.940 for 2024
00:23:27.760 and the
00:23:28.900 Democrats
00:23:29.480 nominate
00:23:31.240 Hillary Clinton
00:23:32.100 again for
00:23:33.180 their Democrat
00:23:34.200 presidential
00:23:34.860 nominee.
00:23:35.360 her statements
00:23:38.620 are just
00:23:39.160 mind-blowing
00:23:41.100 that she
00:23:41.540 doesn't sit
00:23:42.540 there and
00:23:43.080 say that
00:23:44.260 she sits
00:23:44.760 there and
00:23:45.140 trashes
00:23:45.760 Trump
00:23:46.400 for saying
00:23:49.200 that the
00:23:49.580 election was
00:23:50.240 stolen when
00:23:51.300 she has
00:23:51.800 maintained this
00:23:54.160 position since
00:23:55.680 2016.
00:23:56.860 She actually
00:23:57.420 falsely
00:23:59.740 alleged that
00:24:00.620 Trump colluded
00:24:02.060 with the
00:24:02.760 Russians to
00:24:04.120 steal her
00:24:04.740 election which
00:24:05.660 led to the
00:24:06.920 Mueller probe
00:24:07.960 and three
00:24:08.640 years of
00:24:09.340 hell for
00:24:10.360 President Trump
00:24:11.220 and his top
00:24:11.820 aides that
00:24:12.840 hobbled his
00:24:13.600 presidency.
00:24:14.500 It's just so
00:24:15.580 rich that
00:24:16.660 Rachel Maddow
00:24:17.420 would have the
00:24:18.220 biggest election
00:24:19.080 denier of all
00:24:20.100 time Hillary
00:24:21.220 Clinton on her
00:24:21.980 show.
00:24:22.980 Dave that
00:24:24.220 soundbite ends
00:24:25.220 after Rachel
00:24:25.940 Maddow goes on
00:24:26.920 about you know
00:24:27.560 you can't have
00:24:28.260 people denying
00:24:28.880 elections all
00:24:30.380 the time just
00:24:30.900 because they
00:24:31.280 lost it ends
00:24:32.500 with Hillary
00:24:32.960 Clinton saying
00:24:33.680 the truth
00:24:35.040 matters the
00:24:36.620 truth Matt
00:24:37.880 oh my god
00:24:38.940 that's what I
00:24:39.720 have to say to
00:24:40.160 her what are
00:24:40.800 you what are
00:24:41.120 you saying so
00:24:42.240 many lies so
00:24:43.180 much dishonesty
00:24:43.820 coming at me
00:24:44.460 like I can't
00:24:45.940 I'm overwhelmed
00:24:47.060 this is why
00:24:48.020 people are so
00:24:48.540 angry about this
00:24:49.440 nonsense Dave you
00:24:50.340 know you get it I
00:24:51.240 know you're a
00:24:51.680 Democrat you're a
00:24:52.660 prosecutor but
00:24:53.900 the absurdity right
00:24:55.240 that she totally
00:24:56.020 got away with all
00:24:57.040 the same stuff
00:24:58.020 including scrubbing
00:24:59.240 the server
00:24:59.880 defying a
00:25:01.200 subpoena and
00:25:02.420 now we have to
00:25:03.060 listen to her on
00:25:03.720 Rachel Maddow
00:25:04.380 trying to lecture
00:25:05.000 us as she
00:25:05.540 giggles about the
00:25:06.400 truth I can't
00:25:08.040 okay well
00:25:10.160 Megan uh first
00:25:11.160 it's good to be
00:25:11.620 back sorry about
00:25:12.260 that I think that
00:25:12.820 was Mike somehow
00:25:13.820 pulled the plug on
00:25:14.660 my computer I
00:25:15.380 know how you did
00:25:15.840 that Mike
00:25:16.320 just power I'm
00:25:18.120 tired I'm tired
00:25:18.340 of you beating
00:25:18.840 me up on air so
00:25:19.820 I pulled the
00:25:20.320 plug well you
00:25:22.980 know uh what
00:25:23.480 was interesting
00:25:23.840 about that
00:25:24.220 interview last
00:25:24.820 night uh Megan
00:25:25.840 and Mike was
00:25:26.340 that it was
00:25:26.820 scheduled way in
00:25:27.620 advance it was
00:25:28.240 just a coincidence
00:25:28.860 that she was on
00:25:29.740 the night of
00:25:30.380 the indictment
00:25:31.040 and uh look
00:25:32.580 I understand where
00:25:34.220 you're coming from
00:25:34.740 on this but keep
00:25:36.140 in mind Jack
00:25:37.220 Smith is the one
00:25:37.720 who said this this
00:25:38.320 is not about
00:25:38.840 words but actions
00:25:40.500 and so in this
00:25:41.540 case it's different
00:25:42.840 than Hillary Clinton
00:25:43.560 saying the you know
00:25:45.660 the election was
00:25:46.220 stolen or anything
00:25:47.040 like that this is
00:25:48.360 about their fake
00:25:49.520 electors um this is
00:25:51.040 about illegally
00:25:51.860 pressuring Ruby
00:25:52.800 Freeman who's an
00:25:53.660 election worker for
00:25:55.060 being part of fraud
00:25:56.700 which led to death
00:25:57.620 threats against her
00:25:58.240 this is the
00:25:58.940 unlawful accessing
00:26:00.040 of voting machines
00:26:01.020 breaking into
00:26:01.700 computers I mean
00:26:03.160 and then there's
00:26:03.960 the obstruction on
00:26:04.680 the cover of the
00:26:05.340 perjury so this is
00:26:06.840 more than just
00:26:07.640 Democrats saying hey
00:26:08.800 we don't like the
00:26:09.440 results of the
00:26:09.960 election these are
00:26:10.880 actions that are
00:26:11.840 crimes in the state
00:26:12.680 of Georgia
00:26:13.160 Mike the thing with
00:26:15.420 Ruby Freeman uh that
00:26:16.540 she was alleged by
00:26:17.380 team Trump and I
00:26:18.160 think maybe Trump
00:26:18.780 himself as being a
00:26:20.440 ne'er-do-well when
00:26:21.280 it came to the
00:26:21.960 manipulation of votes
00:26:22.980 and she's got a
00:26:24.080 defamation lawsuit
00:26:25.240 going right now
00:26:26.160 against Rudy Giuliani
00:26:27.180 in which he admitted
00:26:28.060 that he said false
00:26:28.760 things um but that's
00:26:30.580 in my view how the
00:26:31.620 law handles misstatements
00:26:33.060 about an individual
00:26:33.760 that are defamatory
00:26:34.740 like you don't
00:26:36.160 rico it and sue
00:26:38.300 19 or you know
00:26:40.060 indict 19 people and
00:26:41.540 try to criminalize it
00:26:42.980 and while okay the
00:26:44.640 fake electors thing is
00:26:45.800 an unusual thing as
00:26:46.740 I point out it's been
00:26:48.200 done before maybe not
00:26:49.280 in this exact way but
00:26:50.380 it's been done before
00:26:51.200 by presidential
00:26:52.260 candidates um so
00:26:54.040 what are we down to
00:26:54.760 the the false
00:26:55.700 accessing of voter
00:26:57.140 data that the local
00:26:58.820 official opened the
00:26:59.820 door invited them in
00:27:01.080 and allowed them
00:27:01.820 access how is that a
00:27:03.600 crime for those who
00:27:04.860 were invited in and
00:27:06.140 provided the access
00:27:07.100 who were trying to
00:27:07.760 like by the way those
00:27:08.900 people were not named
00:27:09.620 Donald Trump like if
00:27:10.840 you go through it
00:27:11.400 piece by piece there
00:27:12.620 are real defenses to
00:27:13.600 all this stuff Mike
00:27:14.500 but that's why Fannie
00:27:15.560 Willis is like let me
00:27:16.820 give you 40 different
00:27:17.880 acts and say they're
00:27:19.400 all maybe individually
00:27:21.040 they're problematic
00:27:21.840 or maybe not but if
00:27:22.980 you look at the
00:27:23.500 totality what you
00:27:24.960 have is a stinky
00:27:25.800 election crime yeah
00:27:27.980 I mean it's like she
00:27:28.880 just put together
00:27:29.520 this legal stew and
00:27:31.900 then she just threw
00:27:32.640 it all over the wall
00:27:33.460 and called it her
00:27:34.300 indictment I we have
00:27:35.660 to be precise here on
00:27:36.980 the conspiracy what
00:27:38.220 conspiracy everyone
00:27:40.180 has to agree to an
00:27:41.400 unlawful end what is
00:27:43.660 the unlawful end that
00:27:44.760 they're all agreeing to
00:27:45.740 accomplish here and
00:27:46.500 that's the problem with
00:27:48.060 this and steal the
00:27:49.040 election that's what
00:27:49.860 Fannie would say
00:27:51.040 so okay so but what
00:27:52.080 specifically is it what
00:27:53.420 specifically are they
00:27:54.980 agreeing to do because
00:27:55.960 I don't think stealing
00:27:57.060 an election is is in
00:27:58.840 the Georgia criminal
00:27:59.760 statute what's the
00:28:00.860 specific crime that
00:28:02.500 they're alleged to have
00:28:03.500 conspired to accomplish
00:28:05.160 and that that is the
00:28:06.460 problem what what did
00:28:07.760 what did what did what
00:28:08.540 did they all agree that
00:28:09.920 they were going to go do
00:28:10.660 that was illegal
00:28:11.300 yeah no I mean we
00:28:15.360 covered it like she's
00:28:16.360 going to say you
00:28:16.860 subverted the voting the
00:28:18.180 the will of the people
00:28:18.900 that you know they
00:28:19.740 cast votes in the same
00:28:21.180 way that Republicans
00:28:21.780 would be outraged if
00:28:23.480 Joe Biden tried this
00:28:24.420 nonsense were he to lose
00:28:25.500 in 2024 the people of
00:28:27.320 Georgia should be
00:28:28.240 outraged that their vote
00:28:29.160 was almost subverted
00:28:29.940 thanks to this scheme
00:28:31.120 that was not backed up
00:28:32.060 by actual proof in court
00:28:32.960 but let's talk about the
00:28:34.400 logistics of it for a
00:28:35.300 minute Dave so she we
00:28:36.940 just there there's
00:28:37.820 another case a big
00:28:38.820 criminal case who's
00:28:39.600 that's before the chief
00:28:40.560 judge right now in
00:28:42.040 Georgia in again this is
00:28:43.380 state court it was
00:28:44.760 filed in May of 2020 and
00:28:46.380 it's a Rico case it's a
00:28:47.580 criminal Rico case like
00:28:48.700 this one filed in May of
00:28:50.500 2022 and they began
00:28:53.100 picking a jury on
00:28:54.360 January 2nd of this
00:28:55.560 year so that's eight
00:28:57.060 months ago they're still
00:28:59.160 picking a jury eight
00:29:01.800 months later and this is
00:29:03.100 a case in which 17
00:29:04.260 defendants have been
00:29:05.060 named very similar on
00:29:07.020 its you know face to
00:29:08.500 this one you got 17
00:29:09.300 defense you got criminal
00:29:10.140 Rico and it they began
00:29:12.280 picking the jury eight
00:29:12.980 months ago still haven't
00:29:13.860 even finished that there's
00:29:15.160 no way this case gets
00:29:16.700 tried in six months
00:29:18.440 oh I completely agree
00:29:20.820 with you I think that
00:29:21.920 was just aspirational as
00:29:24.240 they like to say
00:29:25.140 especially because you
00:29:26.940 have 19 defendants you
00:29:29.280 have 41 counts now keep
00:29:31.580 in mind that case that
00:29:32.920 she had against the
00:29:33.700 teachers of the which
00:29:35.840 was a Rico case that
00:29:37.400 trial took eight months
00:29:38.700 so there's no way they're
00:29:39.780 getting this done in in
00:29:41.580 the next six months and I
00:29:42.720 don't think there's a
00:29:43.320 chance they can get this
00:29:44.140 done before the 2024
00:29:45.780 election the only chance
00:29:47.060 is if they somehow
00:29:48.340 separate Donald Trump
00:29:50.000 but you know Jack Smith
00:29:51.100 did that on purpose and
00:29:52.080 he's going to get his
00:29:52.960 trial sooner than later
00:29:54.100 but she indicted 19
00:29:55.960 people so don't expect
00:29:57.640 this to go anytime soon
00:29:58.820 now the thing that she
00:29:59.640 has on her side though is
00:30:00.720 time unlike Jack Smith
00:30:02.600 the indictment that she
00:30:04.080 has is pardon proof she
00:30:06.480 does not have to worry
00:30:07.340 about a future Department
00:30:08.300 of Justice just dumping
00:30:10.020 this case because they
00:30:11.400 have no control over state
00:30:12.460 cases and the future
00:30:14.160 president cannot pardon
00:30:15.320 anyone here and the
00:30:16.960 governor of Georgia
00:30:17.740 cannot pardon anyone for
00:30:19.200 these crimes and so she
00:30:21.240 has a luxury of time on
00:30:22.600 her side and she's going
00:30:23.780 to need it because this is
00:30:24.860 a complex case is going to
00:30:25.980 take a while this one to
00:30:28.220 me Mike I mean the Jack
00:30:29.220 Smith stuff does feel like
00:30:30.300 election interference to me
00:30:31.840 but this one feels more
00:30:34.420 like I want Donald Trump
00:30:36.560 in jail he's going to jail
00:30:39.220 thanks to me Ms. Willis I
00:30:42.080 mean the odds are good I
00:30:44.400 think that she will get a
00:30:45.420 conviction in Georgia I
00:30:47.800 don't know I guess Georgia
00:30:49.000 is a little bit more
00:30:49.720 purple it's not like a blue
00:30:51.760 entirely blue district like
00:30:53.660 Washington DC but I feel
00:30:56.040 like she's she's got a good
00:30:58.480 chance and if she does
00:31:00.220 convict him there's a
00:31:01.120 mandatory five-year
00:31:02.200 sentence on the Rico count
00:31:03.780 alone so how do you see
00:31:06.120 Trump's chances here I mean
00:31:08.600 it's obvious you have a
00:31:09.640 Democrat prosecutor you're
00:31:12.420 going to have a Democrat
00:31:13.100 jury it's it's you know
00:31:15.240 it's not going to be as bad
00:31:17.420 as DC or New York with the
00:31:19.640 Democrat prosecutor
00:31:20.660 Democrat judge
00:31:21.720 Democrat jury but if if they
00:31:24.120 can get past the legal
00:31:26.100 challenges of this case then
00:31:28.880 I think that there's a there's
00:31:30.960 a there's a very good chance
00:31:32.780 that the jury is going to find
00:31:34.220 him guilty and the judge will
00:31:35.360 convict him the problem is
00:31:36.560 that the legal challenges I
00:31:38.440 think President Trump should
00:31:40.200 file a motion to dismiss this
00:31:42.620 case and bring up two
00:31:44.540 different legal arguments that
00:31:45.960 I think are compelling number
00:31:47.220 one is presidential immunity
00:31:48.960 this is the the the enforcement
00:31:53.920 of federal election laws the
00:31:55.660 electoral count act of 1887 is
00:31:58.260 certainly within the outer
00:31:59.580 bounds of his duties as the
00:32:01.580 president of the United States
00:32:02.840 and if you look at the case
00:32:03.840 law you can't bring civil you
00:32:07.320 can't bring civil cases against
00:32:08.980 a president for exercising his
00:32:10.700 official duties at the outer
00:32:12.120 bounds so why could you bring
00:32:14.240 criminal cases against the
00:32:15.780 president for for exercising his
00:32:17.920 official duties at the outer
00:32:19.740 bounds and then if it's not
00:32:21.540 within his official capacity and
00:32:23.100 by the way if you can if you can
00:32:25.220 on presidential immunity that's
00:32:27.180 immediately appeal appealable you
00:32:29.200 can get interlocutory appeal
00:32:31.140 including all the way to the
00:32:32.300 Supreme Court of the United
00:32:33.360 States alternatively you
00:32:36.380 could say if he's acting
00:32:37.200 within his personal capacity
00:32:38.680 you can say that there's a
00:32:40.700 First Amendment problem here
00:32:41.720 you can get these you can get
00:32:42.900 these charges dismissed on
00:32:45.000 First Amendment grounds
00:32:46.140 which would not be immediately
00:32:48.240 available and that would have
00:32:49.320 to wait until post conviction
00:32:50.840 what do you make of that Dave
00:32:52.240 yeah I don't think that either
00:32:55.040 of those arguments will work in
00:32:57.380 court but one thing that could is
00:32:59.000 that he's going to try to remove
00:33:00.460 this case to federal court I think
00:33:01.960 he has better a better chance at
00:33:03.340 that I still don't think it's
00:33:04.540 likely but he could argue that
00:33:06.280 these are federal issues involving
00:33:09.140 the time when he was president
00:33:10.840 because he was president when most
00:33:12.280 of this stuff occurred and so he's
00:33:13.580 going to try to remove it to
00:33:14.520 federal court where there will
00:33:15.700 would be no cameras in the
00:33:17.200 courtroom and he could get a judge
00:33:18.580 that was appointed by him so I
00:33:21.560 think that's more likely I have to
00:33:22.660 disagree with my friend Mike that
00:33:23.800 the Supreme Court would uphold
00:33:25.320 presidential immunity or First
00:33:27.640 Amendment rights to overcome this
00:33:29.220 sprawling sweeping indictment one
00:33:32.140 thing that Bonnie Willis is
00:33:33.200 counting on Megan is that she
00:33:35.580 counts on the fact that several
00:33:37.400 of these defendants will flip and
00:33:39.480 that way won't be a 19 person
00:33:40.980 trial but many fewer Donald Trump
00:33:42.900 does not have the ability to wave
00:33:44.420 pardons around to try to get
00:33:46.120 people to stay on his side so you
00:33:48.180 have some of these lower level
00:33:49.160 defendants that may want to cut a
00:33:51.060 deal with Bonnie Willis and the
00:33:52.180 first one in will be the first one
00:33:54.360 to win ask you a question about
00:33:55.660 that can I ask you a question
00:33:56.340 about that like when you say
00:33:57.460 flip so that's I get this I saw
00:34:00.140 the three godfathers I understand
00:34:01.840 what like if you flip you know
00:34:03.200 you you're a rat and you turn and
00:34:06.480 you say yes the godfather orders
00:34:08.640 all the hits it's all him but this
00:34:11.500 seems like what is flipping look
00:34:13.740 like you know there's not some
00:34:16.020 mystery that we need to get to the
00:34:17.640 bottom of don't we kind of know we
00:34:19.220 know like Trump didn't believe he
00:34:20.700 lost the election Trump said he
00:34:22.600 didn't lose Trump we have phone
00:34:24.320 calls and the recordings of them
00:34:26.840 like I don't really understand
00:34:28.320 what flip means or would do in
00:34:31.060 this case well I also saw all three
00:34:33.480 godfathers the first two are
00:34:34.820 outstanding the third was so
00:34:35.960 disappointing but that's another
00:34:37.180 time what flipping means here is
00:34:40.900 like Mark Meadows for example he was
00:34:42.700 in the room when it happens he could
00:34:44.220 actually talk about Trump's intent
00:34:45.680 his mindset and that could go a long
00:34:47.720 way if he takes a stand now Jack
00:34:49.580 Smith apparently has cut a deal with
00:34:50.940 Mark Meadows already but that's
00:34:52.740 different than state court and so I am
00:34:55.180 really perplexed and interested to see
00:34:57.160 what is the status of Mark Meadows I
00:34:59.360 gotta admit I did not expect him to be
00:35:01.560 indicted here because his lawyers I
00:35:03.800 think would not have copped to a deal
00:35:05.940 with federal prosecutors knowing they
00:35:07.960 would also be subject to prosecution at
00:35:10.280 the state level so this is gonna be
00:35:12.740 really interesting he could be the
00:35:14.060 linchpin to this state case
00:35:15.900 Mark Meadows Mike needed to get the
00:35:18.940 Hunter Biden lawyers who are very good
00:35:21.320 at making sure when you get immunity
00:35:22.760 it's immunity for everything you you
00:35:24.820 will not be left hanging for a second
00:35:26.420 indictment they made damn good sure of
00:35:28.280 that thanks to that good judge in
00:35:30.220 Delaware no one got away with it but
00:35:32.600 okay so I'll I'll I'll ask you this
00:35:35.500 parting thoughts Mike on now that we
00:35:37.600 have four four indictments how do you
00:35:40.720 see this affecting Trump's electoral
00:35:43.000 chances and his likelihood of remaining a
00:35:46.920 free man for the remainder of his life at
00:35:50.380 he's 77 now so I've been saying this for
00:35:54.520 the last year this Democrat lawfare is
00:35:56.780 going to help Trump politically and we
00:35:59.240 saw all that with Alvin Bragg's indictment
00:36:02.080 of Trump for the non-crime of a businessman
00:36:04.140 settling a nuisance claim that helped
00:36:06.460 President Trump win the Republican
00:36:07.960 primary I think Jack Smith's indictment of
00:36:11.120 President Trump for the non-crime of a
00:36:13.040 former president having his presidential
00:36:14.560 records and the office of former
00:36:16.540 president which is allowed by the
00:36:17.760 presidential records act put Trump in
00:36:20.460 very close contention with Biden for the
00:36:22.700 general election I think Jack Smith's
00:36:25.140 second indictment for the non-crime of
00:36:27.140 objecting to a presidential election which
00:36:29.960 is allowed by the electoral count act of
00:36:31.800 1887 and the first amendment helped
00:36:33.900 Trump win the election and I actually
00:36:36.140 think Fannie Willis's indictment here on
00:36:38.820 similar grounds for January 6th is going to
00:36:41.980 help President Trump win the presidency
00:36:44.600 comfortably by like two or three percentage
00:36:46.860 points and it comes down to this the
00:36:49.900 American people are not going to let
00:36:51.940 Democrat prosecutors and Democrat judges
00:36:54.740 and Democrat juries and Democrat hell
00:36:57.260 holes decide the next president of the
00:36:59.400 United States they're going to resent
00:37:00.660 that it's going to backfire we're already
00:37:02.840 seeing that in the polls okay wait a quick
00:37:05.300 question a follow-up for you Mike
00:37:06.660 there's been some talk of like where are
00:37:11.780 the Republicans why aren't they fighting
00:37:13.560 back quote-unquote why isn't the house
00:37:15.620 GOP doing more you know because they do
00:37:18.320 have some nuclear level tools in their
00:37:21.440 arsenal that they haven't yet not yet
00:37:23.780 deployed do you know what I mean and do
00:37:27.680 you think that they should deploy them I
00:37:30.580 always say that the DC swamp is the only
00:37:33.920 place on the planet where the reptiles
00:37:36.060 lack backbones and that includes House
00:37:39.220 Republicans and they have they control
00:37:42.560 the House of Representatives they control
00:37:44.420 oversight they should they have
00:37:46.380 impeachment they could open an impeachment
00:37:48.260 inquiry on President Biden for his
00:37:50.280 corruption Merrick Garland and Attorney
00:37:52.760 General Merrick Garland for his cover-up
00:37:54.540 they have the power of the purse they
00:37:56.340 should they should pass to appropriation
00:37:58.840 writers in the next in the next
00:38:01.660 appropriations process or shut down the
00:38:03.680 goddamn government because we don't
00:38:04.900 have a government worth saving if we're
00:38:06.780 going to throw in prison our political
00:38:08.600 enemies it's the end of the Republican
00:38:09.860 those those appropriation writers
00:38:11.660 number one no federal funds may be used
00:38:14.740 for the prosecution of a major
00:38:17.140 presidential candidate honored before
00:38:18.880 November 5th 2024 that means pause
00:38:22.020 these unprecedented prosecutions let the
00:38:24.880 American people decide the election they
00:38:27.200 could wait till after the election they
00:38:28.520 waited 30 months to bring these they can
00:38:30.480 wait till after the election and number
00:38:32.360 two any jurisdiction that prosecutes a
00:38:36.160 major presidential candidate honor
00:38:37.940 before November 5th 2024 loses all federal
00:38:41.840 funds it's the it's the nuclear option
00:38:43.660 it's the kill switch we cannot have this
00:38:46.000 election interference this is how the
00:38:48.180 Roman Republic fell this is this is
00:38:50.820 crossing the Rubicon when you start
00:38:52.640 prosecuting presidential rivals that's the
00:38:55.520 end of our country because I guarantee you
00:38:57.420 this when Trump is back in the White House
00:38:59.760 and I'm his acting attorney general for my
00:39:02.180 three week reign of terror I promise you
00:39:04.940 I'm gonna be indicting President Biden's
00:39:07.080 ass and Hunter Biden's ass and all these
00:39:08.780 Democrats I will indict them I will fire
00:39:11.300 people I will have my Trump pardon and then
00:39:13.800 I'll come back on Megan and laugh about it
00:39:16.100 I bet you didn't get that asked on MSNBC
00:39:20.720 definitely not well Megan if Mike becomes the
00:39:24.240 acting attorney general I will send you both
00:39:26.360 postcards from Guantanamo no I will
00:39:29.160 spare you Dave I kind of like you I thought
00:39:31.220 you're the one Democrat who I like I'll
00:39:32.900 spare you yeah I'll take you off
00:39:34.360 thank you thank you Mike it's been a
00:39:39.160 pleasure Mike you as well guys thank you
00:39:41.340 appreciate it as always thank you all
00:39:43.620 right up next we're gonna get to the
00:39:44.860 politics of all this a bit more when the
00:39:47.160 guys the fellas from ruthless join us for
00:39:50.360 the rest of the show don't go away
00:39:51.640 former President Trump facing his fourth
00:39:57.860 criminal indictment this year and now
00:39:59.540 promising to hold a news conference on
00:40:02.480 Monday where he says he will refute the
00:40:05.720 charges being leveled against him and
00:40:07.960 prove there were electoral problems in
00:40:11.020 Georgia and fraud and so on and so forth
00:40:13.540 so he's not backing down one bit on the
00:40:15.560 allegations that have gotten him in so much
00:40:17.080 trouble that also happens to be the same
00:40:19.040 week Republicans are set to hold their
00:40:20.920 first presidential primary debate joining
00:40:25.080 me now to discuss it all Josh Holmes
00:40:27.200 comfortably smug Michael Duncan and John
00:40:29.660 Ashbrook together they are the fellas
00:40:32.040 from ruthless hey guys great to have you
00:40:35.220 back there Megan great to be here to be
00:40:38.020 back what a day my god I like okay I'm
00:40:42.620 just gonna kick it off with this I know
00:40:44.100 you guys have seen some of this there
00:40:45.280 was one abutted soundbite that went on for
00:40:47.240 30 minutes last night I watched almost the
00:40:48.740 whole thing but just can I just show this
00:40:52.660 the montage we have it labeled sought nine
00:40:55.080 of the Democrats doing the very thing
00:40:58.080 Donald Trump is facing these indictments
00:41:00.240 one thing that Trump is fearful of when it comes to his being president is that finally we will see how illegitimate his victory actually was I have an objection I object to the 15 votes from the state of North Carolina I object because people are horrified he's an illegitimate president john lewis is completely right there is a cloud of illegitimacy around the election of Donald Trump there absolutely is a cloud of illegitimacy so that legitimacy is in question yes so that was a very tainted
00:41:30.200 election and in that sense it's illegitimate
00:41:33.660 they won the last presidential election folks they stole the last presidential election
00:41:37.700 and Al Gore won that election I think he won it anyway
00:41:40.660 actually I think I carried Florida
00:41:42.460 Al Gore won the election nationwide and also in Florida but the supreme court ruled the other way
00:41:48.000 Al Gore got more votes but not enough to stay out of the supreme court where president bush was elected five to four
00:41:53.500 Bush versus Gore a court took away a presidency
00:41:59.400 the RNC put that together we could have kept going I mean no one got indicted nobody
00:42:04.800 and I think it's even more germane to bring up the fact that Stacey Abrams has been able to fundraise hundreds of millions of dollars claiming that the election was stolen
00:42:12.200 and that she is to this day the rightful governor of Georgia and I don't think any case has been brought up against her it's very clear that this is a political witch hunt
00:42:21.720 well okay I think we're all gonna have a little different takes on on some of this I think rhetorically you're absolutely right I mean this is there they have been absurd absurd they are absurd
00:42:32.560 uh it's completely ridiculous what democrats have done what they try to hold out is is two systems of justice and only prosecuting the republican side
00:42:40.320 I think there's no question about it that if a conviction is obtained in either Georgia or this federal case dealing with this particular issue
00:42:48.120 it will wind its way to the united states supreme court at some point and that the reason for that is because
00:42:54.060 the underlying crime here whether we're dealing with the rico statute uh in Georgia or or this the charges that jack smith brought
00:43:02.120 is in question and there is a very real question about whether electors which are specifically outlined
00:43:09.520 in the constitution united states is a political apparatus or it's not um I think they're you know
00:43:16.420 Georgia is clearly arguing here that the the appointment of electors constitutes an official action by the state
00:43:24.280 an official action by the by the united states to elect a president united states and therefore
00:43:29.340 it is a conspiracy to try to undermine an official action there's a lot of precedent on the other side
00:43:35.000 of that too and I I think ultimately this is going to wind itself into a ball here that is not going to be
00:43:41.980 resolved anytime soon and I think jack smith if you go back and you read the indictment uh out of dc on
00:43:48.140 on january 6 stuff um you know in that indictment I think he he kind of uh looks ahead to that legal
00:43:56.220 argument that you know all these are political actions um and he says in there you know Donald
00:44:02.020 trump had every right to use his first amendment to contest the election even to lie right and there's
00:44:08.620 precedent on on on on that being uh political speech but the actions that are mentioned whether
00:44:17.040 it's the alternative slate of electors or what have you both in the dc indictment and this one now out of
00:44:22.800 georgia are what they see as it's where it separates from the rhetoric if you will
00:44:28.620 yeah and mike davis you had him on earlier he obviously was making his case about why this
00:44:34.520 whole thing could be invalidated in georgia I mean we know that the prosecutor is incredibly political
00:44:41.120 launched her own campaign website last thursday has been disqualified by a judge on another case for
00:44:47.580 being political we know that this has been a very political process from start to finish and what
00:44:53.320 caught my attention this morning was not someone who typically aligns with republicans in any way shape
00:44:59.480 or form it's ruth marcus who's a columnist at the washington post and this morning she wrote that she
00:45:05.400 has substantial misgivings about this case in georgia she walks through her whole reasoning why
00:45:10.600 but I it caught my attention I didn't expect ruth marcus to say that chris christie has sort of thrown
00:45:17.080 cold water on this case in georgia I think his argument was basically that these charges have
00:45:22.520 already been filed on a federal level so it's kind of doubling up but just a couple of examples of
00:45:28.040 people who I didn't expect to come out and throw cold water on the georgia case and have this morning
00:45:33.980 it's I mean it's to me it's just so wrong because they are trying to criminalize speech him saying I
00:45:39.380 think there's been fraud that you're going to go back check the rolls and you're going to find voters
00:45:43.460 who weren't properly registered you're going to find dead people voting we hear that every election
00:45:48.040 I'm not saying he didn't take it to the nth degree he did he took it to a place we haven't seen before
00:45:52.860 but in general what we seem to be doing is criminalizing election denialism which the
00:45:58.320 democrats have gotten away with now for decades I mean for we went back to al gore and that soundbite
00:46:04.640 we just played you and yet when you have one of the chief election deniers sitting there with
00:46:08.860 rachel madda on on msnbc last night they had exchanges like this one I got another one up
00:46:14.000 my sleeve audience here listen to soundbite seven do you feel satisfaction in that you warned the
00:46:23.180 country essentially that he was going to try to end democracy I don't feel any satisfaction I feel
00:46:28.120 great uh you know just just great profound sadness that uh we have a former president who has been
00:46:36.400 indicted uh for so many uh charges that went right to the heart of whether or not our democracy would
00:46:44.320 survive the only satisfaction may be that the system is working oh my god yeah I mean I think
00:46:52.040 the system she's talking about is that democrats are allowed to persecute their political opponents
00:46:56.720 we're seeing that every day so she has to be pretty happy yeah exactly as anticipated anybody in
00:47:02.920 modern history in america that's undermined democracy more than the than hillary clinton I mean just
00:47:08.340 everything she did to you know weaponize uh the intelligence agencies against donald trump um on
00:47:14.880 russiagate is I mean that alone no that alone yeah I think has permanently changed our country made
00:47:20.260 everybody skeptical of these charges honestly I can I tell you that was a disgusting display by both
00:47:27.180 women on the set I would vote for Ron DeSantis over Joe Biden any day of the week I've made that clear
00:47:34.340 okay I I tell you what my bias is when I sat across from Ron DeSantis I pressed him I pressed him on
00:47:42.040 the weaknesses in his arguments things that he said that were inconsistent positions he had that would
00:47:47.120 fall apart potentially if you really you know drilled down and he stood his own that's what a journalist
00:47:52.220 does that's what your obligation is as a member of the media you failed Rachel Maddow you failed I
00:47:57.500 don't care how much they give you 30 million dollars a year you're not worth 30 cents that was an
00:48:01.700 embarrassment you fell down on the job you embarrassed yourself and your network and you
00:48:05.960 ceded the entire discussion to a dishonest broker who set us down this disgusting path that we're now on
00:48:12.960 where everybody denies everybody's the real president shame on you both okay
00:48:16.980 oh I love it Megan gets all work don't you round of applause it'd be fun today
00:48:23.200 it's not that hard it's not that hard do better okay love you guys stand by we have much much more
00:48:29.340 to get to including the lizard people the woman on the plane um and the guys in Iowa and then again
00:48:36.440 at the presidential debate ruthless has taken off they're everywhere we're going to talk to them
00:48:41.960 about the latest poll out of New Hampshire it's getting kind of interesting all right stand by
00:48:46.460 the ruthless program hosts stay with us okay guys as unpleasant as it is to be mired in indictment
00:48:56.620 hell instead of talking about real issues affecting the American people that's where we are so we have
00:49:03.140 to talk about you know what this means for presidential politics you heard Mike Davis say he thinks and the
00:49:09.620 polling would support him so far that all these indictments only drive the support for Trump up not down
00:49:16.060 he thinks that will hold true in the general as well that's a much bigger question mark um and I know
00:49:22.940 I mean I've been listening I've listened to a ton of conservative podcasts and so on and there's been
00:49:27.080 a real debate on like even Trump supporters getting a little worried like it's it's like I'm scared
00:49:32.700 because all the money's gonna have to go toward his legal fees and all of his attention is gonna have
00:49:38.680 to go to the criminal cases where he must sit you're not allowed to skip those those trials and so on
00:49:43.540 and not toward advertisements and rallies and get out the vote efforts and can you really win an election
00:49:52.420 with a guy who's this laden down with such legal ballot baggage whether you believe it's just or not
00:50:00.600 well I think the Democrats are hoping you can't it's pretty clear that you know they like having a
00:50:07.240 situation where their opposition can be mired in in legal problems and the thing is is that once they
00:50:13.340 have something that they see works they just keep the same model going you know after Hillary loses
00:50:18.200 they say okay this is Russian disinformation we're gonna tell everyone this is an illegitimate
00:50:22.620 issue it's it's Russian disinformation what happens in 2020 same playbook oh Hunter Biden's laptop
00:50:28.160 Russian disinformation so until you finally draw a line in the sand and stop their advance they're gonna
00:50:34.620 just do the same thing over and over again I mean what does that mean smoke does it do you agree with
00:50:38.740 Mike Davis like defund DOJ defund Jack Smith indict Joe Biden you know fire with fire I think the DOJ
00:50:46.900 definitely needs to be cleaned up it's extremely clear as we've seen that there's a lot of people
00:50:50.900 in there who are political operatives rather than trying to serve their country and I think separately
00:50:55.540 Biden should be indicted I think that the House Republicans are doing a great job investigating it
00:51:00.180 and I hope they're allowed to get to the bottom of it but when things like a special prosecutor is
00:51:04.600 put in place to try to stop them it's really clear that there's a system in place to protect those in
00:51:09.820 power and those people have been there since Trump first arrived and they were threatened by his
00:51:15.220 presence and they want to make sure nothing like that ever happens again they want to be able to tell
00:51:19.180 who's going to win the next election who's going to be the next candidate and keep the system and
00:51:23.160 gravy train going for him I think I mean that argument clearly works with your Republican primary
00:51:27.360 electorate you see with all these indictments Donald Trump's poll numbers continue to go up
00:51:31.220 but I haven't seen any evidence that helps him in a general election as as your earlier guests
00:51:36.660 alluded I mean if you look at most of those polls you know Trump's doing really well against Biden
00:51:41.060 right now but in the crosstabs you know the people that aren't supporting Joe Biden aren't people who
00:51:45.440 are open for business for the Republican Party it's it's younger voters it's black voters who are just
00:51:51.160 probably disappointed with what the Biden administration has done thus far but ultimately at the end of the day
00:51:55.660 they're going to pull the lever for Joe Biden let's be honest I don't think it's particularly
00:51:59.480 yeah I don't think it's particularly difficult to understand I mean we've seen this play out now over
00:52:03.860 six years yeah this is not just a small sample size it's it's Donald Trump and your fears of Donald
00:52:10.600 Trump in the center of the electorate and how that affects and impacts statewide elections in
00:52:14.760 competitive states and we've seen in 2018 and 2020 and in 2022 one consistent refrain here which is
00:52:22.820 your center right and center left of the electorate in states across this country that determine the
00:52:28.760 outcome of a general presidential election are not comfortable with the kind of stuff that we're talking
00:52:34.120 about right this moment now conversely he is getting stronger and stronger in a primary which is difficult
00:52:41.580 news for Republican voters to hear if they want to if they want to compete in a general but I'll tell you why it is
00:52:47.740 I think and this is this is my theory of the case I think what's happened with the Department of Justice
00:52:52.920 and the failure to have any sort of justice on the Democratic side whether it's Hunter Biden whether
00:52:58.620 it's the links to Joe Biden the lack of curiosity about what seems like pretty rank corruption here
00:53:04.400 and the appointment of special prosecutors that look an awful lot like you're just trying to obstruct
00:53:10.060 a house investigation is what's buoying Donald Trump because Republican voters do not have
00:53:16.400 another outlet to have justice here they do not have a a something that lets air out of this balloon
00:53:24.880 the only way to protest what's going on in a very apparent two systems of justice is to support the
00:53:31.980 one guy on your side who is the victim of their injustice and so that is why he is sort of forever
00:53:38.660 insulated within a Republican primary electorate I don't know if the water ultimately gets too heavy for
00:53:44.560 people to carry you mentioned like the financing of this whole thing that is not an insignificant deal
00:53:50.260 that is a very significant deal Republicans are outspent any damn way I mean no matter what Democrats
00:53:55.440 are going to spend more money than Republicans so now take all the Republican donations and toss it
00:54:00.660 into a legal fund and then you basically just sit there and give courtroom press conferences and call
00:54:05.560 it a presidential campaign yeah and that's basically what people are left with it is a huge the financing
00:54:10.180 is a huge problem because another reason why I think Trump is so strong right now is because I
00:54:14.600 think he's actually running the strongest campaign of any of these primary uh candidates around the
00:54:20.480 country they are so much better organized than they've ever been they are doing every technical
00:54:25.600 thing that you're supposed to be doing and even the stuff that's not seen I mean I think that I think
00:54:31.880 that the people they're running against would acknowledge that they're surprised by how well organized
00:54:37.140 this Trump campaign actually is and when you start to underfund that effort you start to really take
00:54:43.120 away from his strength I mean the reality is all of these indictments suck for him right all of this bad
00:54:49.240 news is really really bad for him in a perfect world if you could go back to right after the election in
00:54:54.960 2020 Donald Trump says I'll be back instead of I didn't lose and if he had done that and if he had spent
00:55:01.980 this last three years just making fun of Joe Biden on Twitter I mean we all know he it would be the funniest
00:55:07.740 most entertaining material that the guys ever had he would have unified the Republican Party by this point
00:55:13.700 he wouldn't have primary opposition and he would be heading into a potential landslide victory over Joe Biden
00:55:19.740 with a bigger mandate than he had in 2017 so I think his actions right after the 2020 election will prove to be
00:55:27.400 the biggest headache that he could have ever created for himself you know it's one of these situations
00:55:32.440 guys where it's like I don't think the things that Trump is being accused of doing are criminal
00:55:39.260 with the exception of the Mar-a-Lago case there's there's an argument that that behavior was was
00:55:44.520 criminal but that one is just nullified for me by the Hillary Clinton precedent you didn't go after her
00:55:49.480 she did exactly the same thing I mean it was as exact as you could get in a criminal case and they didn't
00:55:54.780 prosecutor and so you're done that that no you cannot do it um so they didn't go after her they
00:56:01.040 shouldn't be going after him and the other things are free speech and I don't think that they're
00:56:04.260 criminal however how can the Republican Party even the Trump lovers not factor in how this is going to
00:56:14.220 go for the next year and a half you know how can you not as much as you might love Trump don't you
00:56:20.840 have to factor in oh my god we're gonna spend the next year and a half mired in January 6th talk the
00:56:29.100 most alienating thing there is to independent voters we gotta preview that we gotta preview that
00:56:35.660 in 2022 Megan I mean you look at all the statewide candidates who were mired the most in defending
00:56:43.620 Donald Trump on the 2020 election and quote-unquote election denialism right that the media loves to
00:56:49.920 pair it those candidates went down in flames right and they tanked with with uh the suburban voters
00:56:55.980 and it's not debatable either I mean this is the thing that I always find so remarkable about you
00:57:00.640 know I can understand defending Donald Trump and I can understand defending him against injustice and
00:57:07.140 unjust charges in a two systems of justice what I do not ever understand is how we can sort of wish
00:57:14.400 cast out a different set of facts where the center of the electorate are all of a sudden very comfortable
00:57:20.460 with the post 2020 behavior they're not it's cemented in stone we have now an election that showed
00:57:28.080 exactly what Michael was just talking about how people feel about that you can't undo that that bell
00:57:34.400 doesn't unring and they okay but let me let me ask you a follow-up on that Holmes because I think what
00:57:38.720 people who backed Donald Trump would say is okay right we didn't win them over we didn't win them
00:57:44.560 over in 20 we didn't win them over in 22 um but they didn't really have all the time of watching Joe
00:57:52.080 Biden under their belts at those critical points and now he's just been so disappointing and now is late
00:57:59.960 is covered himself in these ethics allegations that seem to have a lot of teeth and so those people
00:58:06.140 are gettable in a way they weren't gettable before boy I just it seems a lot again it seems like
00:58:13.380 wish casting I look Joe Biden was not a formidable presidential candidate in 2020 everybody sort of
00:58:20.080 like in retrospect talks about how he was you know perceived as this modern he didn't even come out of
00:58:24.980 his damn basement when he was doing rallies he was doing circles and honking cars I mean there is no way
00:58:30.040 that this guy inspired the kind of turnout that he did what inspired the turnout that voted for him
00:58:36.800 was Donald Trump and I think that piece of it remains and and look don't take my word for it
00:58:43.080 look what happened in 2020 look what happened in 2022 look at where the polls are now look where the
00:58:49.840 intensity is within the Republican and Democratic parties and look at ultimately where those center of
00:58:55.640 the electorate independents ultimately land on this question I'm not sure that any of that piece is
00:59:02.160 changeable with this sort of ubiquitous absolutely everywhere discussion that we're having about the
00:59:08.880 thing that they found most distasteful about Donald Trump if it was about his presidential record by the
00:59:13.440 way if it was about his presidential record as I think Ashbrook indicated he would win in a landslide
00:59:18.320 we'd be talking about Reagan Mondale type numbers it's not going to be about that it's going to be about
00:59:23.880 what we are now talking about with this case and minds have been made up on that
00:59:28.400 so how much of the fact that he's running away with that right now on the GOP side guys
00:59:33.500 has to do with okay yes we factored in the indictments and all that but
00:59:38.260 it was it would look very different after DeSantis won sweeping the sweeping victory in Florida
00:59:43.740 and before the indictments and they were close you know they weren't that close but they were within
00:59:48.020 10 15 points Trump and DeSantis so how much of this situation has to do with the fact that DeSantis
00:59:53.400 hasn't taken off you know he hasn't it's just like there's not a second really strong comer you know
01:00:01.480 it's not like people like Vivek but he's not right I mean come on it's not gonna happen he's not gonna
01:00:08.440 overtake Donald Trump and like they loved DeSantis but like the bloom has come off the rose a bit
01:00:13.840 and they might like Nikki Haley but she's not really generating much buzz and in fact her numbers are now
01:00:19.020 going down in the latest polls Tim Scott's not even on the latest New Hampshire numbers he's not
01:00:24.240 even registering so it's like how much of this problem the GOP is in has to do with the fact that
01:00:28.600 they don't have the strong underdog here to save the day coming up the ranks I think uh this first
01:00:35.780 debate is going to be critical I kind of agree with that for actually having a candidate that can have
01:00:41.600 a breakout moment because as of right now you know the most you could think that you know the average
01:00:48.340 American would see is maybe some cursory news footage of a candidate walking around uh in at a
01:00:55.040 state fair or uh if they are in Iowa or New Hampshire then they're seeing or South Carolina they're seeing
01:01:00.520 ads outside of that most Americans haven't really tuned in you know the kids have been on summer break
01:01:06.260 they've got a lot of other stuff they've been worrying about once a debate starts that really
01:01:10.900 focuses a lot of people's attention and especially if Donald Trump decides not to show up then he allows
01:01:17.540 all these candidates to have free reign and try to have a breakout moment hmm I wonder you know I
01:01:26.160 last I heard it didn't look good and people around Trump were saying even behind the scenes he's not going
01:01:33.000 uh and when I spoke to him directly I certainly did not walk away thinking he's going and I don't
01:01:38.060 think he thinks he needs to go you know the latest polls show him losing no steam he's completely dominant
01:01:43.300 and you could argue it's a power move not to go right like let the minions debate the minions smug
01:01:49.720 let them debate and uh and the gorilla's not going to show up until he wants to I don't know um I'd be
01:01:57.960 shocked to see Trump lose substantially in the polls if he doesn't show I think if he does show
01:02:03.680 he's probably only going to drive his numbers up but what do you guys think I the one thing you got
01:02:08.260 to keep an eye on is Iowa um of all these early states it shows the most malleability it's also a
01:02:13.900 place where people demand that you come and earn their vote and 2016 when Donald Trump lost narrowly
01:02:19.100 to Ted Cruz he worked his ass off to go earn their vote he's flying kids around in helicopters
01:02:24.520 they're also in New York they pay you no attention whatsoever well I mean listen if you make an
01:02:32.920 election interesting in New York let me know but in terms of Iowa itself I mean look it's a well
01:02:39.060 educated uh voting base it's people within the state party and within government there who are
01:02:45.020 pretty squared away in juxtaposition to a lot of other states in this country where the Republican
01:02:49.300 Party has been a disaster and so they look for certain things they want to make sure that somebody
01:02:54.500 comes and earns their vote I do think look I kind of agree with you and then there's not going
01:02:58.700 to be some shelf here we'll don't where Donald Trump bottoms out but what we've seen over the last
01:03:04.460 several competitive Republican primaries it or caucuses in Iowa is there are late surges from
01:03:10.020 candidates that are responsive to what people are are doing and seeing in Iowa and I think leaving
01:03:17.140 open the idea that you don't need to go work for it is a kind of a dangerous proposition for the
01:03:23.580 Trump campaign yeah this this debate Trump skipped a debate Ashbrook he skipped a debate in Iowa I mean
01:03:29.280 I was there didn't show up and he's still and he lost Iowa but he still won the nomination and then
01:03:34.340 the presidency go ahead yeah he he can he can't skip I mean he's not going to bottom out like like you
01:03:40.240 guys have said he's not going to bottom out but if he doesn't show every single one of these other
01:03:44.480 candidates has an opportunity in front of a national audience to to demonstrate to these Republican
01:03:49.520 primary voters some of whom are Trump supporters and have some anxiety about Trump's ability to get
01:03:55.000 over the finish line in a general they have the ability to show that they're going to stick it to
01:03:59.720 the libs just as much as Trump they have they they're going to have the back of every one of these
01:04:04.160 conservative voters just as much as Trump and if he's not there on stage with them to belittle them
01:04:10.140 make people laugh at them then he risks an entire conversation around him and where he is not the center of the
01:04:18.860 Republican universe and that I think is where things start to fall off for him that's his superpower
01:04:23.260 and and I think also I mean I think the state of the polling as as it currently is with Donald Trump
01:04:28.360 with like what seems like an insurmountable lead is based on two preconditions number one we've never
01:04:32.780 I don't think we've had in my lifetime a you know competitive Republican primary for president where you
01:04:37.500 had a former president you know in the race I mean so he's going to get a base baseline support there even
01:04:43.080 if it is maybe more surface level or they don't know what their other options are and then you also have
01:04:47.560 I think a lot of the candidates who have been sort of equivocating and qualifying all these statements
01:04:52.600 about Donald Trump as all these indictments come around about how unfair it is to the guy that
01:04:56.480 they're running against which seems like a very strange strategy to me if you think you're a better
01:04:59.980 person to be president but it is what it is and I think there's a reinforcing mechanism for a Republican
01:05:04.480 primary voter that every time they see his opponents talk about how unfair things are to Donald Trump
01:05:09.520 well then they're going to support Donald Trump so like why are you running against Donald Trump so you know
01:05:13.800 you have to think during this debate whether Donald Trump shows up or not that those knives are going
01:05:18.520 to get a little sharper that those statements are probably going to get a little more crisp and the
01:05:22.600 criticism is going to be a little more direct on Donald Trump and these indictments or things he
01:05:27.080 didn't accomplish in his presidency if I you know this has been DeSantis's line and some of the others
01:05:32.280 too like focus on electability because obviously Trump's crushing them on the primary side so it's like
01:05:37.920 you've got to convince Republican voters that you Ron DeSantis or you Chris Christie are going to be
01:05:45.640 more electable when you get to the general you you know you love Trump but he can't get the ball over
01:05:51.000 the finish line as you say so what I think they need to do just as a you know as a somebody who used to
01:05:57.180 argue for a living is have facts you need to say you know Trump lost Georgia by this much Trump lost
01:06:05.840 Wisconsin Trump lost Michigan Trump lost Arizona these are the numbers these are how the independence
01:06:11.060 went this is the vote that he lost and this is then what happened it gets specific don't just say he
01:06:15.780 cost us the house in 2020 in 2020 he lost you know the the narrow the victim whatever margin of victory
01:06:22.000 was smaller than it should have been in 2022 you need to show them why how many votes were lost who
01:06:26.880 was it that didn't vote for him who's gettable what are they saying now in the polls they feel about
01:06:31.460 Donald Trump what has he done like get specific that's how you win arguments you can't have these
01:06:36.380 sweeping like well he's Trump and Jan 6th and you know he's been a drag before that doesn't work
01:06:42.120 right yeah I mean I think that is absolutely a compelling case and again if if Trump isn't there
01:06:48.480 to rebut it you just give free reign for a candidate to make an argument like that um I get the feeling
01:06:54.800 that that the debate not it's not necessarily going to be a candidate chipping away at Donald Trump's
01:07:00.340 share but more of an opportunity for them to coalesce the folks who are not right now in polls
01:07:05.320 supporting Donald Trump and which is anywhere from 50 to 65 percent depending on your state I mean
01:07:10.600 there's still a massive amount of people a huge amount of people who have not completely put
01:07:14.160 themselves in for Trump and then like Holmes mentions when you look at the cross tabs it's not
01:07:17.920 like every supporter for Trump isn't still shopping and our experience when we're talking to folks in
01:07:23.080 Iowa is they're still shopping in the New York Times Sienna poll even half the people who say they're
01:07:27.800 going to vote for Donald Trump are open to other candidates at this point I mean like absolutely
01:07:32.320 and again like this this uh debate if Donald Trump doesn't show up presents such an opportunity for
01:07:37.840 these candidates who we've met with all of them we've had all of them on the show um there are people
01:07:43.400 out there waiting to get a moment to catch a spark like Doug Burgum out there whose record is insane
01:07:49.660 who's I'm telling you right now and I was don't sleep on bird I was telling these gents in in Iowa
01:07:56.220 the fellas are trying to get us behind on the Burgum train when when the Burgum train leaves the
01:08:02.540 station I'm gonna shout from from to everyone who will listen I called this first because the guy is
01:08:08.020 like if you took John Wayne and Ronald Reagan and mixed them together and his record as a governor
01:08:12.840 is incredible you just got a great compelling story we we we found out about your love affair
01:08:18.320 for the Burgum Meister Meister Burger hello anyone know that reference my kids always complain when
01:08:23.200 Christmas comes I only let them watch shows from the 1970s and 60s um Santa Claus is coming to town
01:08:28.420 anyway Doug Burgum went on with the fellas and uh this is not in Iowa I know you spoke with him then too
01:08:34.000 but this is a little earlier it was back uh it was last month in July and here's if if you are like
01:08:38.960 me and you've spent absolutely no time listening to or paying any attention Doug Burgum here you go
01:08:43.620 governor of North Dakota there you go North Dakota here he is when Catherine and I decided to take the
01:08:54.680 leap and jump into uh the governor's race in 2016 the you know there was uh we were down 69 10 in the
01:09:02.740 poll and I told Catherine you know she was like wow I'm not I'm not sure I want to be first lady uh and I
01:09:08.560 said don't worry we don't have a chance it's only five months to the primary uh but we uh you know
01:09:15.460 we we ran a campaign and said look we're not running and I'll never be right here I will never
01:09:20.660 be a senator or congressman I'm not some people want to put on a jersey red and blue duke it out
01:09:26.460 lob bombs great but I'm an operating guy all I've ever done is you know built built operations and and
01:09:32.020 executed and serve customers and and to try to defy the odds yes I mean you've defied the odds all the
01:09:38.100 way through your career okay John Wayne is strong I'll tell you right I mean I don't think we've
01:09:46.640 released the content yet but you should hear his method for killing rattlesnakes when he comes across
01:09:50.500 them yeah guy is he's a legit yeah yes this guy has ranch he's had buffaloes on his ranch that he's
01:09:57.000 had to kill he's killed rattlesnakes dude he went from a from being a chimney sweep uh to selling a
01:10:02.600 software company in north dakota for 1.1 billion dollars to microsoft wow I mean that's a hell of
01:10:09.360 a hell of a life story he also made us eat rattlesnake megan so like we haven't released
01:10:15.320 this yet but wait till you see this he like made us eat it they didn't didn't just tell us how to kill
01:10:20.320 the fellas when I went to Iowa I stayed in like a very tiny little hotel room I did have a little hot
01:10:26.740 tub in my room I will say it was a nice room but it was freezing we're freezing our asses off and we
01:10:32.580 got in and got out the fellas are eating rattlesnake and it must be said shotgunning beers may I run the
01:10:40.040 soundbite soundbite 24 oh boy
01:10:43.500 yeah what is going on here wait a minute
01:10:53.840 see Megan I need to correct the record let me correct the record first these were not beers
01:11:01.340 so these were high noons these were high noons these are high noons they weren't allowed
01:11:04.920 that's even worse that's way worse here's the thing you're all out of zemo no
01:11:09.720 okay there were no beers in cans no beers in cans there's only a glass bottle I said to Duncan I
01:11:16.320 said okay let's go let's cheers it and let's roll he just starts I was like okay fine I guess he's
01:11:21.260 not even gonna cheers me then he left over half of it still in the can I mean that is I look at him
01:11:26.060 spilling it on stage play the video again all of this is fake this is like half full he's still
01:11:30.120 smug so I want to make sure I got every last drop yeah I cleared mine smug smug it was a stolen
01:11:34.560 victory it was stolen you stole the win you did 100 you can you can go back and look at that at
01:11:40.820 like the zapruder film if you would like to Megan yeah I mean I I think I got a head start because I
01:11:46.660 mean watch I moved my face closer to the can it's spilling you see it from his can he's
01:11:51.560 it's filled everywhere it's empty so I saw that and I was like well I'm gonna make sure I got every
01:11:56.280 last well I think there's a lot of eyewitnesses in the first row who dispute your account
01:11:59.840 there smug but that's fine if you would like to challenge me again at the ruthless pre-show at
01:12:05.140 the debate in Milwaukee I'm happy to do it again oh boy done and you know what we'll we'll use pills
01:12:10.660 in our glasses so everyone will be able to look at the liquid no you and you shot them cans and we
01:12:15.520 turn them upside down okay of course original we're gonna drink these he's trying to rig it all right
01:12:20.500 wait there wasn't all the fun though wasn't there there was a little basketball going on there
01:12:23.580 Duncan I think you you partook in that right I did what was that was that like a competition
01:12:28.520 amongst you can we see the video let's see we not put it do we not put up there we go
01:12:32.320 look at the bank shot watch this Megan what is this like the Duncan highlight show it's the like
01:12:39.120 the one thing you've not done here Megan and I don't know Holmes why aren't you on here you know
01:12:43.540 that's money in the bank because I was throwing heat down at the batting cage lighting up the
01:12:47.980 speedometer because he missed he missed the shot so I mean you got to show the guy who makes the shot
01:12:52.500 well can I say I'm from Indiana you've seen the film Hoosiers it's in our blood you know we just
01:12:57.620 make shots but you didn't break the plate we threw baseballs at a lineup of plates you didn't break
01:13:03.160 the plate I was the only one who broke this is this is a multi-faceted team of talent yeah right
01:13:07.780 you had you had Holmes over here throwing fastballs you like broke the speedometer that they had
01:13:12.680 keep on heat look I'm Brooke was nailing the plates money in the bank okay so I want to add this to my
01:13:20.820 I'm gonna have to have the team come back and add this in later but my husband Doug and our friends
01:13:26.360 we all went out last weekend and they dragged us to this bar here at the Jersey Shore that everybody
01:13:31.060 loves that's got all these man games and um we tried to get out of it the two of us wives were
01:13:36.280 like you guys just go you guys just go and then after a lot of protesting by our husbands I'm like
01:13:40.560 maybe we'll just go for one beer she was like what you caved she's like you broke the code and you
01:13:45.300 caved without even talking to me so we went and we played some darts away and I'm gonna lay this
01:13:50.200 video in but can I tell you I did the thing where you punch the big punching bag you know like
01:13:54.160 and it gives you a rating and yeah fellas I got an almost 600 on this thing
01:13:59.860 some of these guys were getting two three hundred now now my husband got very high and so did our
01:14:15.220 friend Matt they were like pushing 800 but I'm telling you there was some power behind I think
01:14:20.120 I could hang in the ruthless Olympic program you got going on in Iowa it is long it has long been
01:14:24.540 known that Megyn Kelly can pack a punch I'm glad it is now documented evidence yeah okay one thing I
01:14:33.560 cannot do is figure out what's happening with the lady on the American Airlines plane this is not
01:14:39.320 pressing news of the day but we must discuss it I I can't get this lady out of my head I don't know
01:14:44.800 what's happening with her but I have theories and so does the internet okay so it's for the people
01:14:50.060 not paying attention the lady was on the plane it was an American Airlines plane and she had a meltdown
01:14:55.860 to the point where they had to bring the plane back to the airport they had to deplane everybody
01:15:00.880 everyone had to go through security again because she was making all sorts of comments about how
01:15:04.780 you're gonna die if you stay on this plane and the internet lost its mind because of what she was
01:15:11.280 saying the danger was on the plane now of course the Daily Mail has tracked her down we know who
01:15:16.420 she is she's done a mea culpa weird video where she's rebranded herself and clearly used about 40,000
01:15:21.880 TikTok filters because she looks totally different and I think I know what's happening but I want to
01:15:26.300 talk to the fellows about it let's look at the original freak out from July 2nd that got everybody
01:15:31.460 talking I'm telling you I'm getting the f*** off and there's a reason why I'm getting the f*** off and
01:15:38.240 everyone can either believe it or they cannot believe it I don't give two f***s but I am telling you
01:15:45.540 right now that mother f*** that mother f*** back there is not real
01:15:51.020 and shout out to the cameraman for like panning to the audience got the whole shot
01:16:05.280 it's so true what Spielberg one time several years ago smug was uh mistakenly put in coach class and
01:16:12.740 he had a very similar very similar response to that ladies I feel like maybe that's the underlying
01:16:17.360 I feel unsafe I saw that video before but I forgot how much she sounds like Mickey Mouse in that video
01:16:25.820 it's like a voice very high yeah yeah yeah well look I think I think she's a hero real I think she's a
01:16:33.640 hero I mean she spoke up and I to my knowledge nobody died on that flight bingo she if she had not
01:16:41.240 raised awareness who knows what might have happened who knows the number of lives saved well so then the
01:16:46.360 internet was like what does she mean that mfer is not real and they the sleuths on board the plane
01:16:53.180 kept going back and showing this one guy in a green hoodie sweatshirt who I guess was like next to her
01:16:57.660 on her original seat or near her on the original seat and then people went with she was accusing him of
01:17:05.440 being a lizard person now she does she's not heard saying that on the plane but this is a thing like
01:17:11.660 people believe that lizard people are walking amongst us and that you never know and that on
01:17:20.700 this in the same vein that people have been like taken over so you know we could have dunk in there
01:17:26.540 or we could have like the new invention of duncan who is like a shape shifter who just took over
01:17:32.440 duncan's body and the real duncan is no more never to be seen again people yeah I'm still draining hoops
01:17:38.080 and I was just gonna say that the lizard duncan has the ability to put clips in showing him doing
01:17:43.040 no wrong on the second county show that's what that is that's right we should all be taken over
01:17:47.860 so okay so that's everybody's like what when she's like he's that motherfucker's not real and I want to
01:17:53.020 get off the plane we're not safe clearly she's having a mental breakdown of some kind and then they find
01:17:58.320 her okay now look first of all just look and listen to the difference now that she puts out her own
01:18:04.560 I think she works in pr and she pr'd her own apology video where she does not address anything
01:18:09.880 about the lizard marketing whatever she does not address the lizard allegation or the mf are not real
01:18:15.700 this is how she sounds first and foremost I want to she looks like a million bucks take full
01:18:23.680 accountability for my actions they were completely unacceptable personal responsibility distressed
01:18:30.900 yes or not I should have been I should have been in control of my emotions and that was not the
01:18:38.460 case my use of profanity was completely unnecessary but sort of in line with those hoop earrings
01:18:46.780 especially those that had children aboard oh my god okay Tiffany Gomez which is her name apparently
01:18:53.360 your use of profanity is not the issue sweetheart that is not what got people talking
01:18:58.120 ain't it that ain't it and this is what I so now she's trying to rehabilitate herself and she's
01:19:04.560 actually saying she's going to create a space like in the mental wellness field for her to help
01:19:08.980 like what how what are you going to help I know you haven't even done a mea culpa on what the hell was
01:19:15.040 going on on that plane you're lucky you didn't get arrested and this leads me to where I really
01:19:20.680 wanted to go with you guys yes my hairstylist is amazing at recommending good tv
01:19:27.600 and she sent this to me and it is from 2022 it's on amazon prime and it's called the devil you know
01:19:37.340 season two season two and it's all about this cult is the word they use in the show but this group of
01:19:46.880 people that was following this radio host named sherry schreiner who was broadcasting out of the
01:19:56.100 middle of nowhere in what looked like a trailer no money no real follow like no no like marketing or
01:20:03.300 anything but had I guess tens of thousands of followers who hung on her every word at least two
01:20:09.800 people died according to the documentary uh one by suicide one was shot by his girlfriend at his own
01:20:17.940 request but she's now in jail um all because of this woman's powerful message and she was a lizard person
01:20:26.340 believer um here is I pull had my team pull a little bit from the documentary the the piece on uh
01:20:35.600 amazon prime here's this woman sherry schreiner I'm going to play soundbite 26 and then 25 for you
01:20:41.060 both take a listen you know celebrities they don't want to go along and what happens is they end up
01:20:47.520 getting getting switched out whether it's just totally replaced and you know who features that is lady gaga
01:20:53.860 i'm sure you all saw her as a man last night at the mtv award everybody stand up this is a real thing
01:21:04.160 they can do that yeah those are they can change their hair color by thought even though i don't
01:21:09.320 think she has hair because she's bald and wears a wig okay stand by stand by one more uh 27
01:21:16.880 i think the particular one that kelly started with was someone who was showing how lady gaga was a
01:21:28.420 reptilian i have always liked shapeshift or maybe taylor swift is another very popular target
01:21:35.520 to break down her videos and show where her eyes look reptilian that was her and one imagines that in
01:21:45.420 the comments section she saw something like no here is the real truth about the reptilians
01:21:51.520 what what's happening again raising awareness raising if if people don't know who knows what
01:22:05.900 might happen i mean that makes me guys you know that's what i think was happening on board that
01:22:09.680 plane i don't she didn't say lizards but why did she think the guy was not real this is more widespread
01:22:14.200 than you'd know and there was a guy um david ick who sort of came up with this originally and he had
01:22:20.040 all these followers who believed shapeshifters lizard people aliens among us who are inhabiting
01:22:24.540 our body i've never seen one in real life like i have a freak out on a plane about a guy in a green
01:22:29.220 sweatshirt but now now like all these people online are like oh you know go tiffany yeah you go girl and
01:22:35.980 she's gonna be our leader i guess in the mental health space it's a no okay it's a no but i will
01:22:41.300 here's where i'm gonna bring it all together okay i believe i said this last week that the the
01:22:47.260 deterioration in trust in all of our institutions whether it's the doj or the fbi the white house
01:22:55.160 the media um you know cia fbi all of this is related the less people believe in our institutions
01:23:03.880 the things that bind us together that used to be a given for us as americans the more they look to
01:23:09.000 alternative sources of information whether it's reddit or this woman sherry schreiner who died a
01:23:15.420 couple years ago or you know some q anon whatever some lizard person and this is our future like if
01:23:22.420 we can't rebuild that core togetherness and like belief in these institutions you're going to get
01:23:27.640 more and more american airlines jets that have to return to the tarmac or that you know whatever
01:23:32.400 more and more instances of people losing their tether on reality 100 the more you see these
01:23:38.380 institutions you know just coming apart and the trust people having them it's exactly what the
01:23:42.900 lizard people have been working toward so when you search for the alternate things what you're going
01:23:46.620 to look to the list what you've been working yeah why why do you think smug wears sunglasses in there
01:23:50.900 yeah he's just he's trying to hide his lizard eyes it's those lizard lion lizard eyes yeah that's going
01:23:56.900 on and megan you know you're like casting all this shade i wonder about your lizardness
01:24:00.500 what what made me so interested in this story hmm this exchange has just been clipped and it will
01:24:07.440 be saved for the next sherry or whatever no she's no longer with us but maybe she just shape-shifted
01:24:14.100 into something else here here's here a couple more sherry schreiner this is the woman's a lunatic
01:24:19.300 obviously no longer with us god rest her um bit of of uh wisdom for you um let's play soundbite 25
01:24:26.940 and then play 28 right after take a listen everything i've ever said i've been talking
01:24:33.380 about this stuff for 20 years
01:24:34.740 right now out of every four humans only one is real you know clones will walk around with horns
01:24:45.540 on their heads and tails sticking out of their ears they look like us we are at critical mass
01:24:52.140 the reptilians have been dominating earth uh for the last hundreds of years thousands these
01:24:59.600 aliens they pose as humans so they can destroy the humans on earth
01:25:06.260 wow one in four gentlemen raise your hand who is it that's the thing i'm looking around here
01:25:15.300 no we've already identified no but you know what i think like tying this back in megan
01:25:20.700 you're right i mean there is a modern sort of straight line of of logical thinking there's a lot
01:25:28.140 about our politics today that's no less absolutely ridiculous like you can't believe your lying eyes on
01:25:34.180 so many things that we're dealing with and like facts established facts are no longer established
01:25:40.460 just depends on your information flow and your your cylinder of of people who influence you one way or
01:25:46.780 another and of course like that becomes partisan over time it's how you end up with like you know
01:25:51.940 partisan justice as we're seeing with doj it's how you you know you deal with this sort of like
01:25:57.040 lingering idea that elections are are stolen and by venezuelan voting machines and people like yes i
01:26:03.700 knew hugo javez despite the fact that he was dead eight years ago had something to do with it i mean
01:26:08.500 it's it's like it's scary at some level because people used to trust institutions to help them make
01:26:13.460 sense of the world and when the world stops making sense and those institutions can't be trusted like
01:26:17.760 you said megan that's where they go to alternative sources of information that definitely don't make
01:26:22.660 sense but they make more sense than not knowing and people don't like not knowing and that's what made
01:26:27.500 this whole clip with this woman on this plane so interesting because people were like man what did
01:26:33.200 she take an ambien you know she just is she drunk like people wanted to know people were like they want
01:26:38.800 to know everything about her you know and so i think it's it's that desire to make sense of the world
01:26:44.200 that leads people to lots of weird places she lives in a million dollar house down in dallas by the way
01:26:50.000 she's got a good job i mean just goes to show you like you never know and if she is having a mental health
01:26:54.780 issue i hope she does better i hope she gets help but she's not alone you know and honestly
01:27:00.460 we're we opened the show today talking about donald trump on january 6th we had a woman on the show she
01:27:06.000 was amazing it was one of my favorite interviews that we've done since we launched the program
01:27:09.200 her name is lindsey graham um happened to be and she walked us through how she wound up at the
01:27:15.460 capitol on january 6th how she had been a business owner she had been building a business in which she owned
01:27:20.760 gyms and hair salons and she was making it and she was a new mother she had a newborn at home
01:27:26.820 and covid shut that shit down she lost everything all the debt was up and all the revenues were gone
01:27:35.500 evaporated and she had the stress and you know depression all the stuff that comes from oftentimes
01:27:40.000 when you have a new baby and she went a downward spiral trying to get news and information real news
01:27:46.820 and made the mistake of trying cnn which was a hot mess and before she knew it she was on reddit
01:27:53.040 a lot and became one of those people who really believed that magically on this certain date donald
01:28:00.040 trump was going to be the president again and like got sucked down the rabbit hole you guys it can happen
01:28:05.820 it can happen to normal successful people who you know you you may spend your day interacting with and
01:28:12.180 you have no idea right so this shit matters what this lunatic running the thing in georgia
01:28:17.840 did yesterday matters what jack smith is doing matters what the alvin bragg did met there they are
01:28:24.700 hashtag part of the problem it's not just about partisan politics it's about us it's about our kids
01:28:30.560 it's about our country it's about our future it's about the as i said the tether that binds when when
01:28:34.620 nothing else binds there were certain things we could always count on with the supreme court was another
01:28:38.960 one that's been completely delegitimized by these partisans on the left what they're doing is
01:28:44.280 reckless no question about it but i think also it extends to our media space is just one of the
01:28:50.300 things that we've come to appreciate you and your career regardless of whether you've been at fox news
01:28:55.080 or nbc you're now doing your own thing on this show it's that people listen there's millions of
01:28:59.400 people out there listening to this right now who trust megan kelly in her point of view and you've
01:29:04.700 always had a commitment regardless of who's offended by it or not to purvey the information
01:29:09.520 as it's given to you and and that's the responsibility we feel on ruthless too i mean look
01:29:14.400 it would have been very very easy for us at certain points over the last couple of years to go along
01:29:18.620 with the prevailing wisdom on the right about what was happening to them that wasn't true and many of
01:29:24.660 our competitors in the space and you know who they are i don't need to to say their names didn't think
01:29:30.300 they needed to do that and they thought that just continuing to turn the dial all the way to 10
01:29:34.640 got them better ratings which it did but it also left a population that had a absolute vacancy of
01:29:42.120 real information that allowed them to make decisions on everything from politics to how they live their
01:29:47.520 lives i think it's a damn shame and i think more people in our line of work ought to take that
01:29:52.440 commitment extremely seriously and also i i'd be remiss if i didn't add the fact that a lot of these
01:29:57.340 institutions aren't exactly victims in this process many of them are part of the undermining
01:30:01.960 when you had you know uh the cdc saying that saying that oh well you know you can catch covid if you go
01:30:08.840 to your family member's funeral but not if you're protesting for blm right that's completely fine or
01:30:14.500 you had the world health organization send out a tweet saying that covid cannot be transmitted human
01:30:18.200 to human to cover for china who was their major investor at the time so i think a lot of this comes
01:30:23.880 institutions i mean like like duncan says that's my point that's my point i'm not blaming the people
01:30:28.460 who distrust cdc and doj and fbi they're right they're right to distrust them i'm blaming the
01:30:35.100 institutions what they've they've crossed you know we say they use that term they cross the rubicon
01:30:38.780 they have crossed it and we're over here like the duck with the feet under the water furiously
01:30:44.840 saying what happened how do we get out of this crazy mess why are we dealing with foreign
01:30:49.300 indictments and the possibility of defunding doj and indict impeaching a president you know just to
01:30:55.080 fight fire with fire this is where we are how do we get here but yes it's the institutions that got
01:30:59.740 us here and and i have to say that the democrats running them bingo yeah in addition to getting us
01:31:05.920 here one of the other worst things that these institutions do is they don't recognize their
01:31:10.820 problems they've created in the past so there are plenty of opportunities every single day for a
01:31:16.100 little bit of humility from the cdc from nih from i mean honestly from the fbi i mean people are really
01:31:23.500 concerned about two systems of justice how about you how about you acknowledge that you know like
01:31:28.720 half of this country is is very concerned about that i had a conversation i won't use the guy's name
01:31:34.140 but i have a conversation with a scientist who's very high up in public health and he acknowledged to
01:31:39.580 me he was like we have a lot of shortcomings we created a lot of problems in the past with the way
01:31:44.600 that we messaged um covet i mean you know he went in a little bit deeper and i was like you you just
01:31:49.900 if you just tell people that you know just just let people know that you recognize that that you
01:31:55.340 made mistakes and here's what we're going to try to do to real trust back in we know it's going to
01:31:59.740 take a long time but at least acknowledge it and and i think that it it just makes it so much worse
01:32:05.700 when they act like randy weingarten for example who bent over backwards to keep all of our kids out of
01:32:12.400 school for an extended period of time kids go back to school and now she's like what are you talking
01:32:17.060 about i wanted them to be in the classroom i've been working for him to be in the class she is such
01:32:21.000 a liar you know and like people are fed that stuff every single it just compounds the original problem
01:32:26.980 and it's just there's no humility from the power it's like it's like hillary clinton in that bite
01:32:32.920 literally sitting there saying truth matters i really just think truth matters stop it just stop
01:32:41.800 it okay go back to chappaqua and enjoy your nice home and your walks in the woods with your weird
01:32:49.940 marriage okay don't lecture the rest of us on truth all right stand by stand by we got more with
01:32:56.060 the ruthless gang straight ahead do you not understand that if donald trump wins nothing
01:33:04.580 else matters because it's over the morning joe might not exist and he will cancel the show i mean
01:33:09.660 you need to think that excuse me that extreme it's over freedom is over if donald trump gets elected it's
01:33:18.120 that simple well in that case let's definitely vote for donald trump
01:33:24.200 they're gonna cancel morning joe i didn't know that was on the ballot oh man i haven't even heard
01:33:32.620 mention that it's amazing i really i really hope we can get that on the official rnc platform in
01:33:38.260 it's the lunacy i mean like he's serious he's not we're laughing but he he actually believes
01:33:45.720 donald trump will personally make sure morning joe gets canceled meanwhile trump more than any other
01:33:50.180 candidate more than joe biden would cross party lines to go on with lefty you know tv hosts and he
01:33:57.520 doesn't care he'll he'll go wherever the cameras are um and the cameras i should mention before we go
01:34:02.880 are going to be on the guys from ruthless the fellas at the debate next week so you guys are like
01:34:09.620 i don't want to call you the warm-up act that may be insulting but what are you how would you
01:34:13.820 describe what you're doing next week yeah i mean look we're doing a big college game day like setting
01:34:18.600 out in front of the debate to sort of preview get the crowd hyped and get everybody sort of focused on
01:34:23.500 what's going to be a really big night we're super excited to be there something brand new in politics
01:34:27.820 right and i love that they've entrusted us to do it and as per your instruction duncan i will be having
01:34:33.500 a shotgun rematch so i mean it's going to be a party everyone's going to be having a good time
01:34:37.380 and uh you know we're going to work on getting a candidate to beat joe biden and get this country back on
01:34:41.900 track and we're not just working on that i'm also really trying to get us a whole hog to smoke right
01:34:47.000 there next to the stage i want to bring a little bit of the party atmosphere there and i think it'll
01:34:51.720 make for uh for a good like hog cam you don't have a roving cameraman at the hog sure this will be
01:34:57.120 fantastic watch out and all i can think of is um streaming live on rumble okay that's good you know all i
01:35:03.540 can think of is that scene in animal house where um the one guy borrows his brother's car and they
01:35:10.880 take the car out and they completely trash the car and the guy who loaned you to them can't believe
01:35:16.460 it and then i think it's butowsky goes you fucked up you trusted us that could be you guys
01:35:21.620 that's right we will apologize at the appropriate time
01:35:30.040 well i for one i'm looking forward to watching that guys i look forward to watching that
01:35:35.400 and we'll see about the debate much more interesting if trump actually shows up
01:35:38.880 that's one of the big question marks between now and then thanks for being here fellas
01:35:42.920 you are the best megan thanks for having us
01:35:45.940 uh we'll do it again soon and we'll be back tomorrow with much much more
01:35:49.740 thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear
01:35:57.800 you
01:35:59.800 you
01:36:06.860 you
01:36:08.860 you
01:36:10.860 you