The Megyn Kelly Show - Zuby on COVID Doom Addiction, the Harms of Closing Schools, and How to Fight Back ｜ Ep. 233

00:00:00.440 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.740 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We have a lot to talk about today.

00:00:17.420 There's the massive number of schools being moved to virtual learning, despite all we now know from nearly two years of this pandemic

00:00:25.880 about how safe schools are for children and how damaging it is to them not to be in them.

00:00:34.240 There are new pushes for vaccine mandates, too. I mean, oh my God, people are so stupid, right? 1.00

00:00:39.900 It's just so stupid. How many times are we going to go through this? You know, the push for vaccine 1.00

00:00:44.800 mandates should be easing up right now. You get the vaccine, you can still get COVID, especially with

00:00:50.380 Omicron. What are we doing? And there's a whole mix of cultural stories to get to as well. I'm

00:00:55.260 excited for today's guest. We have author, host, and rapper Zuby. His life story is fascinating.

00:01:02.700 He has developed an enormous, enormous following. He initially made waves on Twitter back in 2019

00:01:08.520 when he broke the UK women's deadlift record. That's right, the women's deadlift record.

00:01:15.900 There's a story behind that, and we'll get to that as well as all the news. Zuby, thank you so much

00:01:20.620 for being here. Hey, Megyn. Good to see you. It's great to have you. All right, so let's start with

00:01:24.940 the COVID madness because now we're seeing, I mean, there was a great piece, I have to

00:01:29.780 say, in the New York Times today by David Leonhardt, who was on the show not long ago

00:01:33.300 talking about the serious cost to children in not having school because of the pandemic

00:01:39.100 and these ongoing delays and remote learning, which we know doesn't work. And we just keep

00:01:44.640 doing it. We just keep doing it. It's happening all over the country right now, from Newark to

00:01:50.300 Philly, parts of New York, and so on. And some of these parents are saying, it should be longer.

00:01:57.040 It should be longer. My child shouldn't have to be there. There are risks. And those are the ones

00:02:02.220 who are bringing everyone else down. Your thoughts on it? Yeah, I think it's crazy. And I've thought it

00:02:08.320 was crazy from the very beginning of this. One of the things that we found out very early on during

00:02:16.160 the pandemic situation. And this is a huge blessing. This is a massive silver lining. And that

00:02:22.080 is that this particular virus is very, very, very mild for children. That's not the case with all

00:02:31.540 viruses. That's not the case with all diseases. But with COVID-19 in particular, kids breeze through

00:02:37.980 this very easily. I'm not actually aware of a single healthy child anywhere in the world who has died

00:02:43.640 over the past two years of this particular disease. That's not to say it doesn't exist,

00:02:47.600 but it is certainly extraordinarily rare. Hospitalizations are rare. Any type of severe

00:02:53.080 sickness, so on, et cetera, in that age demographic is extremely rare. So all of these measures that have

00:02:59.760 been applied to children for this duration of the past two years have been absolutely crazy.

00:03:05.980 They've been so detrimental to young people and to kids. The amount of harm that's come to them from

00:03:14.820 this all socially, in terms of their development, in terms of their health, their mental well-being,

00:03:20.920 their ability to socialize and even learn how to speak, all of that stuff has been massively

00:03:25.360 negatively impacted. So the fact that two years down the line, people are still proceeding with this

00:03:31.800 insanity, is mind-blowing. It's mind-blowing to me. There's absolutely no reasonable justification

00:03:37.360 for it. I think as a society and in any healthy human society, it should not be expected that children

00:03:45.700 are the ones making huge sacrifices to make adults feel safe or comfortable. And I'm specifically using

00:03:54.040 the word feel because this is really about feeling. It's not about any type of reality. So I thought it was

00:03:59.980 crazy from the beginning. And I think it's even more crazy that anyone in any place is still proceeding

00:04:06.360 with that. My kids are going to school and we're supposed to feel grateful that the school is open.

00:04:10.880 Well, I don't. I don't feel grateful. School is supposed to be open. That's the default.

00:04:16.600 Maskless faces are the default. That's what's normal. I don't feel like I need to begin every email

00:04:24.600 to the school when I ask, why do we still have these plexiglass barriers up? Why are they still

00:04:29.380 masks 24-7? Why are they getting yelled at and threatened with detention if the mask goes down

00:04:33.300 below their nose when we all know the masks are theater, especially for kids in school,

00:04:37.760 with a thank you so much for being open? No, not thank you so much. That's your job. Nobody thanks

00:04:43.600 me for sitting behind the microphone every day. That's my job. I get paid to do this. It's part

00:04:49.200 of the contract, right? So it's like, and yet you have teachers like the ones in Chicago.

00:04:54.100 Once again, the teachers in Chicago, I'm sorry, but the absolute worst. That union is the worst

00:04:59.680 threatening to walk out on Wednesday because they don't want to work in person. This is the same

00:05:06.220 group, Zuby. You remember they didn't want to work during the pandemic last year either. And to

00:05:10.800 prove their point, they did the interpretive dance where they leapt across the streets of Chicago

00:05:18.160 to show us how these young, able-bodied women were incapable of standing in front of a classroom 1.00

00:05:24.920 and teaching. They're at it again. Yeah, it's insane. It's insane. And I think that when something

00:05:34.120 goes on for a very long time, I mean, human beings are, for better or for worse, people adapt to things

00:05:40.380 very quickly. And, you know, the process is called hedonic adaptation and people, what is brand new

00:05:47.740 and is a big change to people after a matter of weeks, let alone months, people set into that as

00:05:53.540 their normal, as their default. So I think that now there are millions of people who are still stuck in

00:05:59.960 this mindset that nothing is allowed until some authority or official says that it's allowed.

00:06:08.900 People are out there thinking that, you know, masks are the norm or lockdowns are the norm or

00:06:15.320 children not being in school is somehow the norm or the default position. But as we know in our entire

00:06:20.660 lives, in fact, all throughout history, this is not the norm. This is not how anybody was living

00:06:27.460 prior to the year 2020. And now by any measure, we are very much at the tail end of this situation.

00:06:34.840 The virus is not going to go away. It's something that is going to be endemic, just like the cold,

00:06:39.500 just like the flu. It's not going to be eliminated completely. And children have already sacrificed.

00:06:45.100 Everybody has sacrificed, but children in particular who should not have had to sacrifice to begin with

00:06:50.060 I don't know. I don't know. It blows my mind. I get annoyed when it's stuff particularly to do with

00:06:57.800 children because it's very easy to see just how detrimental this all has been to them. And I,

00:07:03.860 you know, Lord knows how it's going to affect them years or even decades down the line, but it's very,

00:07:10.000 very clear that there is no upside to doing this and it's all downside. And this is downside on top of

00:07:18.000 downside. And the definition of insanity is doing something over and over and over again and expecting

00:07:23.820 a different result or a different outcome. And I think that the adults and these teachers and these

00:07:28.640 unions who are pushing for all of this, I've seen in other places where they're forcing children to

00:07:33.280 eat outside in the cold while all the staff are eating inside, all of that stuff. I mean, if I were a

00:07:39.880 parent, these are not, these are not people I'd feel comfortable with leaving my kids with for

00:07:44.940 multiple hours a day. I think it's an absolute disgrace. Right. Now you've got this group,

00:07:50.040 National Educators United on online saying recklessly opening school buildings right now,

00:07:57.160 instead of working to reduce community transmission is once again, needlessly putting millions of lives

00:08:02.640 at risk. National hashtag two weeks pause now to protect our community. Are you kidding me?

00:08:09.360 Never heard that before.

00:08:10.340 Are you kidding me?

00:08:10.920 Right. Two weeks to slow the spread. They're really going to rely on that. Why are these people

00:08:15.420 such cowards? The teachers I know are amazing. They're strong. They're they're leaders. They 0.74

00:08:20.840 don't complain. I mean, the teachers are school. I know them. They're they're happy to be there.

00:08:24.620 They're delighted to be teaching the children. They don't complain about this bullshit. Who are these 0.99

00:08:28.520 people who run these groups who are two weeks to slow the spread? Who do they think they're

00:08:32.080 kidding at this point?

00:08:32.900 I don't know the exact answer to that question, but I think that this is something that has happened

00:08:38.960 over the process of decades. I think over the course of decades, particularly in Western societies.

00:08:46.880 And, you know, I think as societies become prosperous and even decadent and very comfortable,

00:08:54.460 people become weaker. People become physically weaker, spiritually weaker, physically, you know,

00:08:59.580 mentally, physically, spiritually, and all these different aspects. And I think that this has

00:09:03.840 really brought to light just how deep some of that is. I mean, prior to any viral pandemic situation,

00:09:11.100 we were already talking about things like trigger warnings and safe spaces and, you know, everything

00:09:17.160 being hate speech and people needing to be protected from ideas and this and that microaggressions.

00:09:22.960 And so to me, this is really a sort of logical conclusion where you've already got people who are in this

00:09:29.160 state of weakness and safety ism and fear and paranoia and hysteria, all of which is very overblown.

00:09:37.260 And then a new threat is introduced and this is where things end up. And I think that whilst it's

00:09:45.300 important to look after ourselves and each other and to take reasonable precautions when necessary,

00:09:53.540 life is full of life is full of risk. It's full of threats. That's always been the case. We take

00:09:58.580 calculated risks every single day. But I think that one of the best things you can do as an individual

00:10:03.600 and as a society is to make individuals stronger. You want people to be strong. If you have children,

00:10:11.200 you want your children to be strong because you're not going to be able to bulldoze every obstacle or

00:10:16.900 challenge out of their way throughout their entire life. And this seems to have been lost in Western

00:10:22.540 society. And it seems to be that instead of trying to make people stronger and more resilient,

00:10:27.020 we've just been trying to nerf the world, remove absolutely everything that could be a threat,

00:10:32.820 a risk, anything that could offend anybody or potentially cause. And so I think we're really

00:10:38.940 just seeing the culmination of decades upon decades of that mentality. And it leads to the situation that

00:10:45.900 we're talking about here. That's so true. I hadn't really thought of it like that. I've seen the push for

00:10:50.160 safe spaces and I'm sick of it. It's like, you can't, I like that, nerf the world. You can't do

00:10:55.320 that. People are, you're going to run into mean people, even if you manage to get everyone in the

00:10:59.300 United States to be nice to you, which isn't going to happen. You're going to go out into the real

00:11:03.180 world and other people are going to be there. And you're right. It's kind of the same when it comes

00:11:08.780 to COVID, where we are catering to the least strong denominator, to the weakest, most frightened

00:11:16.520 denominator. And to me, it makes me angry because what's happened is you've got parents sitting at

00:11:22.560 home who are terrified for no good reason. You know, you've got people who are Lysol-ing their

00:11:26.500 lawns. I mean, it's crazy. And, and, and with the rest of us who are saying, just stop it. Like,

00:11:32.640 that's not necessary. Let's get back and, and maintaining a sense of normalcy with our kids

00:11:36.540 and with ourselves. Then we send our kids to these schools and out into the world. And they're told by

00:11:41.960 parents who are hearing from those other, or by educators who are hearing from those other parents,

00:11:45.680 get your, get your mask up. You know, like the, the kids are receiving fear from the administrators

00:11:52.620 and so on who have to be on the receiving end of those other parents. Right. So it's like one thing

00:11:58.940 feeds the other. And, and unfortunately we all get sucked down by these terrified non-science based

00:12:05.500 people who for whatever reason have chosen to live their lives in this cowering position.

00:12:11.020 Hmm. Well, I think there's been a lot of inversions that are taking place in society and culture.

00:12:16.480 And one of those is that things which are not good traits, things, which are negative traits,

00:12:22.040 or even vices are being promoted as virtues or positives, right? So courage is a virtue,

00:12:29.700 but we're living in an age where cowardice has become a virtue. In fact, if you want to show how good

00:12:35.540 a person you are, you aren't just scared, but you act and pretend to be even more afraid than you

00:12:43.220 truly are. Right. We're having this weird situation where if you are just living your life normally,

00:12:50.420 or you are trying to live your life normally, or advocate for liberty, freedom, personal choice,

00:12:55.560 all of that stuff, you're somehow the bad guy. Whereas if you are the person who is showing just how

00:13:00.680 terrified you are and how committed you are to the cause of being scared and paranoid,

00:13:06.380 then people are now feeling that that makes them a better person, that that makes them holier than

00:13:11.600 now. And that's a complete inversion. There's no virtue in being or acting absolutely terrified of

00:13:19.020 everything, being afraid to, to go outside, being afraid to see human faces, being afraid to mingle,

00:13:24.040 being afraid to teach or to go to school, any of that, those things are not virtues. And I believe

00:13:30.000 that in any previous era, that would be greatly frowned upon, if not ridiculed, but somehow this

00:13:35.840 has been inverted and people think that they are better because they are acting more scared than each

00:13:42.620 other. And it's, it's very strange. This has been going on the whole time. And look, I can, I can

00:13:47.380 understand the, when, when, when the threat was brand new going back almost two years ago, then I can

00:13:53.720 understand people wanting to take precaution or people having, you know, different worries and concerns

00:13:58.720 about that. But at this point in time, whatever country you're in, whatever city you're in this,

00:14:06.240 this thing is, it's largely over. I don't want to say it's totally over because I have, from what I

00:14:11.580 know, the virus itself is, like I said, is going to be endemic. It's not, it's not going to disappear.

00:14:16.500 Um, but people there, there are people who just don't want to give this up for various reasons.

00:14:23.920 And I think there's a lot of perverse incentives out there, both financially, um, socially even.

00:14:29.920 And I think, and certainly in terms of the people making the decisions, I mean, these politicians in

00:14:34.640 the West have never had this kind of power before where they've essentially become these little mini 0.77

00:14:38.640 dictators who tell you whether they can, you can go outside or what you have to do. If you, how many

00:14:43.280 people you can have in your household, if you're even a label, able, able to go to work or to go to

00:14:47.180 school, all of that. And some people are corrupted by power. And once they have that power, they don't

00:14:54.020 want to let go of it. And then you've got people who, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. No, I was going to

00:14:58.780 say, it reminds me a little bit of it to me, these, some of these politicians, these governors who are

00:15:02.740 drunk on their own power, they seem like post nine 11 Giuliani wannabes. So remember how we all felt

00:15:09.220 about mayor Giuliani right after nine 11, forget what you think of him now. I realize he's done a

00:15:14.560 lot that has changed public perception of him on some, on some camps, but after nine 11, we all love

00:15:20.060 mayor Giuliani. We called him America's mayor. And that's why people thought he could very well be

00:15:24.020 the next president. Um, and he handled nine 11 brilliantly. He was steady in the storm. He was a

00:15:30.600 great leader. And, and he had said about it, the way he performed later when asked about how he

00:15:36.860 maintained his calm, he'd always been taught that the, the more out of control things get around

00:15:41.620 you, the more important it is to be in control, the calmer you must get. And, um, that doesn't

00:15:47.820 always work, but it worked beautifully that day. And I think that these governors saw a man who was

00:15:54.080 steady in the storm, who knew what to do and the accolades he got. And sort of that image is in their

00:15:59.900 own heads. Like I will be the steady in the storm leader. I will be the one who understands

00:16:05.680 I'm the anti-Trump. You know, I'm going to, this is how it was about a year ago, right? I'm going to

00:16:10.080 say all the stuff that Trump doesn't say. I'm going to take the opposite positions of the ones that he

00:16:14.160 takes. And now, even though we now have vaccines and we now have therapeutics and we now have the

00:16:20.000 latest variant that is very mild for the vast, vast majority of people. It is a cold people. It is,

00:16:25.900 it's equivalent to a cold. They won't adjust. And it's important to say that that is a good

00:16:31.620 thing, right? One of the, one of the most mind blowing things throughout this has been the fact

00:16:36.280 that there are millions of people who are addicted to the doom and the gloom and the despair. If you

00:16:42.220 give them any type of positive news or anything that could potentially allay their fears or get them

00:16:48.960 to calm down, they actually get angry. There are people who literally want a situation to be worse

00:16:55.740 than it is, which is psychotic to me. I mean, this is great news. It's good news that you're having

00:17:02.800 fewer people. Oh, sure. More people might be getting sick, but you're having fewer people

00:17:06.620 getting hospitalized. You're having fewer people dying. You're having, you know, it's the situation

00:17:14.040 now is infinitely better to how it was a year ago, let alone a year and a half ago. But to some people

00:17:20.620 that to them is not, it doesn't seem like they're happy about that. They, they, they sort of somehow

00:17:25.460 want this to keep going on for eternity. And for anyone who is in that mindset, I want to know what

00:17:32.180 is their, what is their exit strategy? You know, I don't think they have an exit strategy. I think

00:17:37.240 it's like, they want to do this forever. Yeah. You cannot hide from an airborne coronavirus for

00:17:44.460 forever. It would be like trying to live your entire life without ever catching a cold or a flu.

00:17:49.100 It's, it's not going to happen. You can take your best precautions, um, against it. And there are

00:17:54.120 various options for that. And then you just have to get on with life. There are other risks and

00:17:59.320 diseases out there. There are, and there are certainly other things to do. Yeah, exactly. And,

00:18:05.160 and there's, there are more things important. There are more important things in life than this one

00:18:10.380 particular virus. And people need to remember that. And people need to reorient themselves and

00:18:15.500 get back to living their lives. It's one thing if, you know, people like you, like me, who are saying,

00:18:21.100 we've got to live our lives. We've got to go about our business, notwithstanding COVID. It's one thing

00:18:25.300 if we were, if we were saying, and the 85 year olds need to do the same, they need to get out there.

00:18:30.120 They need to go to the football games. They need to forget the Vax. Like, we're not saying that 1.00

00:18:34.020 people who talk like you do, like I do are saying, we get that there's populations who need to be

00:18:39.440 protected. And all of society shut down for months to protect those people. We did. But now we're two

00:18:49.000 years into this thing, and we've developed therapeutics and vaccines and so on and testing,

00:18:53.700 though it's sparse. And so we now need, we, those of us who are not in these high risk groups,

00:19:00.160 need to get on with our lives. And we need to stop pretending like people who are under the age of 30 0.99

00:19:07.400 face any real risk from this virus, because they don't, unless they have an identified comorbidity.

00:19:14.400 They don't. They're safer, even unvaccinated than somebody like I, who I'm 51, am with the double

00:19:21.900 vaccine and the booster. Okay, that's the truth. But it's maddening trying to convince people in the

00:19:28.820 states where I spend my time, New York, Connecticut, to see the truth. It's like,

00:19:34.280 walk me through it. Does DeSantis have like magical children who are able to resist the vaccine in

00:19:41.680 those schools the way, you know, New York can? Or what about the kids in London, right? Like,

00:19:47.140 are you British, aren't you? Yeah, you're British. You were raised in Saudi Arabia. Okay,

00:19:50.420 so what about the kids in London? Are they magical children? How are the magical children of London

00:19:54.340 able to not wear masks and and not have huge transmission rates in the London schools? Those

00:20:00.580 are not big properties. They're on top of each other, same way the New York City kids are. But

00:20:05.240 they're leaving leading very different lives. Yeah, I mean, the whole thing got politicized

00:20:09.680 very early. I mean, I was in the when I was in the USA, I went to 10 different states over the summer

00:20:14.720 and the autumn period. And the variation between places like Texas, Tennessee and Florida versus

00:20:20.600 places like California, Hawaii, New York and Maryland was absolutely mind blowing. It was two

00:20:28.300 completely different realities. And this is several months ago. And it's all political. Honestly,

00:20:35.700 at this stage, it's so it's political, it's social, it's gone. This has nothing to do with science

00:20:41.480 anymore, unless you're talking about political science and psychology. It it's got nothing to do

00:20:46.520 with that. I would argue it hasn't for a very long time, you can look country to country, city to

00:20:50.880 city, state to state. And you can see the you can see the results, right? We're not speaking

00:20:56.780 theoretically, you can even within the USA, you can look at half the country and see what's going on,

00:21:02.760 you can look at the other half of the country, see what's going on, you can look at numbers,

00:21:05.560 you can see what's happening on the ground. And it makes it blindingly obvious that all of these

00:21:11.420 ridiculous mandates and restrictions and this and that not only are they ineffective, but they're totally 0.74

00:21:16.240 unnecessary. If that were not the case, then places like Texas, Florida, Tennessee, South Dakota, 0.54

00:21:22.040 whatever they'd be, they would have been interrupting, there would have been on fire for

00:21:26.020 the past more than one year. And that is not happening. And instead of people seeing that and

00:21:31.820 going, Oh, okay, maybe we can relax a little. They're taking that as some kind of cue that they

00:21:36.320 need to double down even harder. And I think that's purely political. You've got weird indoctrination

00:21:42.520 happening in places. There was an article about the Rose Parade. Okay, there's a New Year's Rose

00:21:48.420 Parade. It happened this past weekend. And it's, it's basically, you know, there's a Rose Bowl

00:21:54.760 football game between this year, it was the Ohio State Buckeyes and the Utah Utes. And they were

00:22:01.700 going to have a parade after the fact. And I guess they did. But they made a couple of modifications,

00:22:06.100 Zuby. Number one, the Kaiser Permanente float, you know, they have the floats in the parade,

00:22:13.460 they decided not to put 20 frontline medical heroes riding on or walking alongside of their float,

00:22:20.540 right? It's like, they didn't want medical personnel to be associated with being out like

00:22:24.340 near a crowd. And then the AIDS Healthcare Foundation received some criticism in connection

00:22:30.400 with its float, as it featured a robot nurse with a gigantic needle, ready to administer vaccines. 0.74

00:22:39.080 Their aim was to encourage equity and global vaccination. And I have to tell you, this reminded

00:22:44.100 me of I have seen the picture, I'm not going to share the picture, because my friend sent it while at

00:22:49.420 her child's school play. But in New York City, my friend went to the child's school play. And what they

00:22:58.020 were treated to was all these little kids on stage with big fake needles and big fake signs supporting

00:23:06.700 the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. And then this little like shame tent for the unvaccinated, like 0.94

00:23:13.880 mean signs about the I swear to God, these are single digit kids. These are, you know, elementary

00:23:19.480 school kids. It's indoctrination, right from from the Rose Bowl floats. What do we have? My producer's

00:23:27.080 telling me? All right. Yeah, we got a clip. Okay, let's watch. Okay. Rose parade floats slip

00:23:32.820 important messages amongst the flowers and the seeds and the AIDS Healthcare Foundation's

00:23:37.520 float is using this futuristic landscape to encourage equity and global vaccination and

00:23:43.680 treatments for COVID-19. The robot nurse ready to administer vaccines and she gets her orange

00:23:49.460 color from dehydrated carrots and orange lentils. And her work isn't needed for the people participating 0.50

00:23:58.200 in the parade today or attending the parade in the grandstands. Everyone here has to show

00:24:02.960 proof of vaccination. And it's also the winner of the Queen Award for the most outstanding presentation

00:24:11.700 of roses. Every year they come with a different theme, something really relevant, really, really

00:24:22.160 important. So we very much appreciate the you think so really, really important. And for the people

00:24:29.000 listening who can't see it, it's an absurd flow with this looks like a red robot who's she's holding

00:24:35.660 the needle. It's going up and down, up and down. We've lost our bloody minds.

00:24:43.960 Yeah, I'm not, I'm not going to say we, I'm going to say they, I'm not involved in this.

00:24:50.420 And have no wish to be. If I ever went to my kids play, and I saw one of my children standing up there

00:24:55.740 with a fake vaccine needle touting, like praising Moderna and Pfizer and shaming people who don't want

00:25:02.060 to get the vaccine, I think I would storm the stage. I would literally storm the stage. I'm

00:25:07.860 already thinking about storming some of my kids' sport events where they're being forced again to

00:25:12.780 wear masks during the playing of sports. There's going to be some storming. I think I'm ready to

00:25:18.300 storm, Zuby. Yeah, do it, Megan. Do it. You got my full support on that. Look, it's completely crazy. 0.95

00:25:23.920 I mean, one thing I'm always sensitive to and something I notice is when people start behaving or

00:25:29.600 doing things that are totally unprecedented, right? Now, what's completely unprecedented here

00:25:37.360 is this response and their reaction. That's what is brand new. I mean, our entire lives and well

00:25:45.320 before them, there have been, there have been viruses, there have been coronaviruses, there have

00:25:49.740 been diseases, there have been vaccines, there have been masks, there have been, all of these things have

00:25:54.900 always existed. But this whole culture and pseudo religion and cults that has been created in some

00:26:04.380 places, especially when I'm seeing what's going on in some parts of blue state America around all of

00:26:09.520 this is completely unprecedented. The behavior is very strange. It's extraordinarily cultish.

00:26:17.260 It is cultish. It's very weird. And like I said, all of these things have previously existed and we

00:26:24.660 just dealt with them and things were normal. There was no bullying or shaming or coercing or

00:26:32.060 massive virtue signaling around any of this stuff. People just lived their lives and we got on with

00:26:37.660 things. Sometimes we get sick. Sometimes we need to take some time off. Sometimes someone gets a

00:26:43.720 disease. This happens, that happens. And none of that is new, but what is totally new is just,

00:26:50.060 like I said, just the paranoia and the hysteria and the way that people are viewing each other and the

00:26:55.840 hostility around that in some areas. But then also just this, I don't know, this behavior around

00:27:04.200 whether it's the masks or it's the vaccines or whatever. It's just weird to me. That's what's very

00:27:09.920 weird to me. It's just like, look, people do their thing, do what you need to do to make yourself

00:27:14.440 be or feel safe. People should have access to whatever they need in terms of medicines,

00:27:21.620 in terms of PPE, whatever it is. But that's not what should be running a society.

00:27:30.260 Yeah. You don't get to mandate that I do it too. That's fine. You do you. But you're right about the

00:27:35.300 cultishness. I mean, I've done a lot, a lot of stories on cults over the past five years and the

00:27:40.980 lionization of one man, Fauci, very culty, the ostracization of non-believers, you know,

00:27:50.560 the people who aren't, you're out of their little club. Not that we want to be in it,

00:27:55.240 but I'm just saying you're otherized, not just if you're anti-vax, but even if you're just anti-vax

00:28:02.080 mandate, that's that otherizes you. You're someone to be feared.

00:28:06.520 You've seen they changed the definition, right?

00:28:08.780 Yes. That you're now an anti-vaxxer if you're just opposed to the mandate.

00:28:12.360 Yep. Yeah. So now the majority of the world now fits into that category.

00:28:16.520 Right. I saw, I did see that and I was like, this is outrageous. So I, I got,

00:28:20.720 I got the double vax. I got the booster. Unlike Nicole Wallace, I don't feel the need to run to the

00:28:25.640 television camera and say, I'm, I've got the three, I'm a Fauci groupie and I've got all the three

00:28:30.800 shots. I haven't seen your selfies, Megan. You need to post your selfies up.

00:28:33.620 Never, never. I didn't, I wouldn't, I don't agree with it. So it's like, okay, fine. You do your

00:28:39.200 thing. Take care of yourself as you see fit. But you don't have to otherize people who make different

00:28:44.980 choices than you. And you don't know what their private reasons are. You don't know,

00:28:48.700 you know, I had on the gal from ESPN who got pressured. She, she wound up, Alison Williams, 0.97

00:28:54.000 who got pressured. She had to leave because she wouldn't get the mandatory vaccine. I have her on.

00:28:57.540 I'm asking you like, well, so why, why was it important to you not to get it? She's like,

00:29:01.100 I'm trying to have a baby. I'm like, this is fucking none of my business. Why am I hearing 1.00

00:29:05.580 this? Why am I even asking this? Right. But like, again, that's put in this position.

00:29:10.260 Yeah. And again, that's, that's unprecedented, isn't it? Like, since when do we ask that information

00:29:14.300 of other people? I mean, it's, it's rude to even ask somebody how much money they earn,

00:29:20.200 but somehow it's okay. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But somehow it's okay to ask them all,

00:29:26.400 all of these questions. It's extremely, it needs to be unnormalized, right? Like this is not

00:29:31.700 normal behavior. It should be stigmatized. It's not, it's not proper. And it's a massive intrusion

00:29:38.060 on people's privacy. I mean, when it comes to medical stuff in particular, like people could

00:29:43.460 have all sorts of reasons why they do or they don't do something, but really it's not, you know,

00:29:51.720 unless, unless you're somebody's doctor or, you know, confidant or something, it's, it's really,

00:29:56.260 it's really not anybody's, it's really not anybody's business.

00:29:59.940 It reminds me of a friend I used to have just post law school, a woman and, and I was like

00:30:04.540 mid twenties and maybe it was a little later. I don't know. We were like late twenties.

00:30:08.280 Anyway, she used to get annoyed because that's about the age when people start looking at you like

00:30:13.240 other people's moms and saying like, Oh, you're not married. Why aren't you married? 1.00

00:30:17.800 Where's your partner? And she had a great response to them after a while, which was,

00:30:22.240 they'd say, you know, why aren't you married? Why aren't you with somebody? And she'd say,

00:30:24.960 because there's something wrong with me. I loved it. And I do think if somebody asks you like,

00:30:32.160 Oh, why wouldn't you get the vaccine? You should come up with something like,

00:30:34.820 Oh, you know, it, it conflicts with my chlamydia medication or like something just outrageous.

00:30:40.940 Something that's going to embarrass them.

00:30:43.260 Yeah. Yeah. It's the way forward. Honestly, it's the way forward. I'm,

00:30:47.320 I'm so I've been, I've been so ready. I mean, I I've been living as normally as possible

00:30:53.580 throughout this whole thing, but I'm so it's exhausting, you know, and I do think we are

00:30:59.060 reaching a point of exhaustion globally with this particular issue. I think that the, the,

00:31:04.740 the juice that they're trying to squeeze out of it is running out. And again, this is a good

00:31:11.020 thing, right? This is, this is good. Let's just go back to, it's funny. Cause I think,

00:31:16.920 I feel like in 2019 people thought that the world was crazy in 2019 and people were talking about

00:31:22.140 clown world and the world going mad and everything being crazy. But I think that, uh, people would

00:31:27.020 quite happily return to the times of people, you know, eating tide pods and licking ice cream and

00:31:33.000 putting it back in the freezer and whatever else nonsense was going on in 2019.

00:31:36.840 All right. And speaking of 2019, this is when Zuby, I think became a star. This is when you,

00:31:42.460 you took off as an international personality. Uh, and we'll talk to him about how that happened in

00:31:47.880 just a moment. Also, we'll get to the anniversary of January 6th and the media's obsession, obsession.

00:31:55.240 I mean, it's very clear. The Democrats are really looking forward to an opportunity to talk about that

00:31:58.760 for weeks instead of COVID and all the other stuff, the economy that's happening. Uh, and then we'll get

00:32:04.200 to the transgender swimmer breaking records at UPenn because Zuby dipped a toe into this controversy

00:32:10.000 back in the day, again, back in 2019. So what does he make of it? A lot to go over. Don't go away.

00:32:20.200 Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby, Zuby,

00:32:34.180 came on stage to it once in fact. So I loved that show, Mad Men with, uh, that was Don Draper's

00:32:39.860 second wife, Megan. And, uh, it's a real, it's, it's got, it's one of those earworms that stays

00:32:45.480 in your head. And as soon as I heard you were coming out, I'm like, Oh, you need that. You

00:32:49.600 need that. It's gotta be your theme song. Although I realize you have your own great music. You don't

00:32:53.680 need Don Draper's wife. Um, okay. So let's talk about you and how we all got to know you because I

00:32:59.700 first came to know you on Twitter and I was like, this guy makes so much sense. I just want to

00:33:03.640 follow him because it's wonderful when you find common sense people and people like you who can

00:33:07.500 sort of separate the wheat from the chaff and like get right to the heart of an issue. And I've

00:33:12.020 noticed it on COVID. I've noticed it on race. I've noticed it on the trans issues. So you're not 0.99

00:33:17.180 afraid to go to the place that hurts, which I can relate to. And I like, um, and one of the things

00:33:23.200 you first did that with was the infiltration of trans women into biological women's sports 1.00

00:33:31.720 and what an unfair advantage that can create for the trans woman and how no one for too long 0.64

00:33:37.760 was really calling it out. You know, now we've gotten to this place where if you do call it

00:33:41.660 out, you have to be terrified. For example, in the case of the UPenn swimmers, the women that

00:33:47.020 they might not get a job. These women, they don't want Leah Thomas, who was a man up until 1.00

00:33:51.740 two years ago and swimming as a man swimming on their team because the best they can get

00:33:56.940 is second place. And they know it's unfair. And if you look at Leah Thomas, Leah Thomas

00:34:00.140 looks like a man. She has long hair, but she has the body of a man because she was living 1.00

00:34:04.820 as a man for the first 20 plus years of her life. She only transitioned and she only did 0.99

00:34:09.500 one year of testosterone therapy and she didn't lose all of her physical advantages.

00:34:13.080 Okay. So you take us back to February of 19 and you are making music and also doing social

00:34:19.600 commentary. And what was it about the deadlifting, the women's deadlifting record that attracted

00:34:26.700 you to God? We have a clip, but I want you to set up like what got you to this place?

00:34:31.600 Um, well, I'd been following this issue for several years. I think it kind of came onto my

00:34:38.120 radar in a fairly strong way, maybe around 2014 or 2015. And it was something I'd kept an eye

00:34:45.480 on at this time. I generally keep my views on thoughts on sociopolitical and cultural issues

00:34:53.140 to myself as a musician. I was kind of in that position that I think a lot of people are in

00:34:58.540 that. Oh, I don't really want to rock the vote or wait in on certain things. But then

00:35:02.720 due to a whole host of factors and around 2018, I just started publicly voicing and sharing some

00:35:09.520 of my thoughts and ideas more, which a lot of people latched onto. And then the day I posted

00:35:14.360 that video, I'd actually seen multiple stories coming out of the USA about this exact thing

00:35:19.100 happening. I'd seen, uh, stories about biological males competing in women's athletics and I think

00:35:25.340 wrestling as well and absolutely dominating. And I'm really good at deadlifting and out of curiosity,

00:35:32.620 I just Google searched the British women's deadlift record to see what it was in my weight class.

00:35:37.000 And I believe it was around 210 kilograms. Um, my personal best is actually 275, 500 pounds.

00:35:47.320 Yeah. So I was like, Oh wow. Okay. I can beat that by over a hundred pounds. And I just had that video

00:35:51.900 on my phone already from one of my training sessions. Some people think it's from an actual

00:35:55.600 competition. It's just from one of my training sessions. So I just posted it up with the caption

00:35:59.920 saying something along the lines of, I keep hearing about how biological men have no strength

00:36:04.260 advantage over women in 2019. So watch me destroy the British women's deadlift record without trying 1.00

00:36:08.880 PS identified as woman whilst lifting the weight. Don't be a bigot. So I just posted that up. I had

00:36:14.200 about 18,000 followers at the time. Um, I didn't expect anything crazy out of it. And the next thing

00:36:21.280 I knew this video went bananas by the time I woke up the following morning, it had over half a million

00:36:27.660 views. It had hit a million views the following day. And it just kept going and going, getting retweeted

00:36:33.480 and going viral all around the world. And then the media started catching onto it. And I started

00:36:38.460 doing a lot of interviews talking about it. Because when you see the truth of something that

00:36:44.260 you're not allowed to talk about staring you in the face, it's cathartic. It's, it makes people feel

00:36:50.840 like, yes, I'm not an insane lunatic. People are gaslighting me. This is unfair. Here's a bit of the

00:36:58.620 totally viral Zuby video. Okay. And so for our listening audience, you see lots and lots of

00:37:15.840 weights. What I understand was 525 pounds and they're on a barbell and Zuby bends over and lifts

00:37:24.420 it and then drops it and crushed the women's world record as a lot of men who are good debt, 0.67

00:37:32.580 dead weight lifters could do. Right. Have you thought about going for gold and crossing over?

00:37:38.240 Cause you could do it. Yeah. I mean, look, maybe to end this complete stupidity, what needs to happen

00:37:43.960 is all the top male athletes in the world should just, uh, transition next year and completely demolish 0.99

00:37:51.700 all of women's sports and take all of their records. And maybe that's what is going to be 1.00

00:37:56.640 needed for people to actually, you know, take their heads out of the ground and go, Hmm, okay,

00:38:01.200 maybe this is a bad idea. You're exactly right. Thank you for saying that because my husband's a big

00:38:05.420 tennis fan. He wrote a whole book about tennis and, um, he, he's been saying as soon as you get,

00:38:12.340 uh, like a biological male who now identifies as female and as a trans woman who decides to play an

00:38:18.540 actual women's tennis, right. And gets to the U S open and crushes Serena Williams or Naomi Osaka. 1.00

00:38:26.420 This will change. There is because they can't Serena Williams cannot come close to beating the 1.00

00:38:31.340 best men's tennis player in the world, or even, even the top hundred lose to the, didn't she lose

00:38:37.020 to the 230th? Yes. 230th ranked male player. I don't remember the number, but he was way the hell

00:38:42.920 down the list. She can't beat him. And she is at least one of the top three, you know, American

00:38:48.920 tennis players or tennis, not just American female tennis players in the world. So, okay, let's put

00:38:53.700 our money where our mouth is. If we really want equality in the sports, let's just not make the,

00:38:57.600 the UPenn swimmers suck it up. Let's, let's put it in, in every sport, this dynamic, even the ones

00:39:04.160 where women are going to lose huge money, huge endorsements, right? Like, let's see how the woke 1.00

00:39:10.080 crowd likes that, especially when you have women of color who've overcome a lot in their lives,

00:39:15.700 you know, like not totally gender, gender equality, not totally race equality. And a lot of the

00:39:20.940 upbringings that people have gone through that they overcome all those obstacles. They get to

00:39:25.240 something like the U S open to Wimbledon, to the Australian openness or whatever. And they lose

00:39:29.700 because some guy was playing as a man two years ago, has suddenly identified as a woman. Let's see

00:39:34.060 what they have to say that. Yeah. And man, there's so much stupidity going on with this

00:39:40.680 whole thing. Firstly, it blows my mind that we're, that we're actually talking about this and that 1.00

00:39:44.120 this is a genuine debate that exists. But one of the most obvious things to the uninitiated is why

00:39:51.440 is this only happening in one direction? Why is it that male athletes have no concerns about female

00:39:57.440 athletes transitioning to men and taking their records and beating them? Right. If there were really no

00:40:03.040 advantage, why is it only in one way? Why is this only impacting women's sports? Just that simple 1.00

00:40:10.420 thing blows the entire notion out the window. You don't even need to get into the biological reality.

00:40:16.980 Just that simple heuristic shows how silly it all is. And everyone knows it's silly. I don't actually 0.97

00:40:23.320 believe that there's anybody. I genuinely do not believe that there's anybody who truly believes

00:40:28.820 this stuff. I think everybody is pretending, even the people advocating for it. I think they're

00:40:33.820 pretending. They all know that there's a biological difference. In fact, what they are doing would not

00:40:37.900 even make sense if there were no biological differences between men and women. Like the

00:40:42.780 whole thing would not make sense. We had a couple of experts on this. We had the girls in Connecticut,

00:40:47.580 the runners, high school girls who were doing really well and then started getting crushed because

00:40:52.420 similar situation to what we're seeing at UPenn. Boys who had been running as boys,

00:40:57.140 who had been middling at best, crossed over into the female track world and started crushing these 1.00

00:41:02.480 girls. And they included girls of color. You know, like my point is simply girls who the left would

00:41:07.900 normally be embracing as like, look at her. She's getting it done. You know, notwithstanding our

00:41:13.520 terrible society, she overcame all the obstacles. But everything gets trumped by trans. I mean, 1.00

00:41:18.880 honestly, like in the hierarchy of like, you know, things the woke loves or wants to victimize,

00:41:24.580 trans is number one. So that's why Dave Chappelle, even though he's a black man, 0.99

00:41:31.340 he's got like, that's one strike against him because he's a man. But anyway, he that's why

00:41:35.780 he gets completely killed, right? Because he took aim at the trans community. And that's why we can 1.00

00:41:41.760 have, you know, young black girls like the one I interviewed or whatever in Connecticut or elsewhere,

00:41:47.020 take it on the chin after working their whole lives for a goal. If they lose to somebody who happens

00:41:52.280 to be trans because we're just not allowed to talk about fairness. Yeah. By the way, those girls 1.00

00:41:56.100 should not compete. Any woman who is planning to compete and there's a biological male standing at 1.00

00:42:02.280 the start line or in the ring next to her or whatever, they should all refuse to compete. 0.99

00:42:06.560 All those swimmers, they should refuse to compete. People on this person's team, people will compete

00:42:11.260 against, they should all just stand together and say, no, we're not doing this. We're not competing

00:42:16.060 against male athletes, right? Simple. That would be incredible.

00:42:20.880 They need to stand together. This is the problem. People need to, when something is wrong, when you

00:42:26.340 see something that is clearly, obviously wrong, you need to say something. You need to do something.

00:42:32.600 You can't just keep going with the flow and thinking that magically and miraculously things are going

00:42:38.080 to change. No, they're not going to change. These people need to stand together. And I'm not even

00:42:42.120 just saying, in this case, this is actually a pretty easy one because you're talking about a team

00:42:46.740 sport. So if you've got multiple competitors there and you don't need to be the one isolated person

00:42:53.040 who stands up, you don't need to be the one male that sticks out and gets hammered. You can all just

00:42:57.500 stand together and say, you know what? No, we're not doing this. Then what are they going to do?

00:43:03.340 They're going to call everybody transphobic. They're going to call everybody names. It's like,

00:43:07.440 who cares? I think all these women and girls, whoever it is, they need to stand together and 0.97

00:43:12.660 stop allowing men to just smash through all their records and destroy them in swimming and athletics 0.91

00:43:19.100 and all these other sports. This is silly. I can't believe it's gone on for several years 0.97

00:43:23.480 and people need to stop being cowards about it and just stand up and put an end to it as far as I'm

00:43:28.000 concerned. That's a good point. I know trans men who, they transition from biological women and they 0.99

00:43:35.920 don't turn into men. They don't, they don't look anything like someone like you, you know what I

00:43:40.680 mean? Who has natural body mass and has natural, you get hair and you get a little bulkier and your

00:43:46.480 voice goes down and your face looks different for sure. But like you do not wind up looking

00:43:50.780 like Tom Brady. You just don't. And you will never pose a threat in the athletic field to a man in the

00:43:57.380 way that a biological man would to a biological female after he transitions to female. All right.

00:44:02.520 Zuby staying with us. We have so much more to go over. Um, he's got some great stories and some

00:44:06.520 crazy stuff has happened to him over the past couple of years, which we'll get into. And remember,

00:44:11.060 you can find the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM triumph channel one 11 every weekday at noon

00:44:17.540 East. If you haven't checked out triumph channel, it's fun. You should check. It's my favorite channel

00:44:21.140 on Sirius even before I got on it, I swear. Um, so you'll love it. And you can also check out the

00:44:25.800 full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel with that's youtube.com slash Megan Kelly.

00:44:31.300 It's on fire right now. My goodness. My team pointed out to me that our opening monologue

00:44:36.340 yesterday, uh, has gone, it's not Zuby viral, but it's viral. Um, and it's all about 400,000. Now

00:44:43.580 that's a lot for us in a day. We only have, I don't know, 250,000 subscribers, 560,000. You could help

00:44:48.840 us get up to 300,000. If you would be so kind, we're still building. We just launched it. Um, anyway,

00:44:54.560 check it out. Cause it's all about COVID and the, the realization by people like Nicole Wallace,

00:44:59.840 that there's no outrunning it. We're just going to have to live with it. And by the way,

00:45:03.520 uh, you can also check it out on podcasts. That's how we got started. That's how we made our name

00:45:07.260 audio podcast, uh, at Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts for

00:45:12.680 free. If you go to Apple and leave a comment, I will read it. I've read them all. And, uh,

00:45:17.920 while you're there, you can see our full archives, more than 230 shows. Don't miss that.

00:45:22.380 It's time for another edition of you can't say that or think that or do that. Oh, wait,

00:45:34.620 this is America today. We're actually going around the world to Australia where the language policing

00:45:40.800 has reached new heights. This is not about the insane COVID lockdown restrictions there. No,

00:45:46.180 today we're talking about sharks. You see sharks have feelings too. I think who knows, but what

00:45:54.700 we do know is they have been quote unfairly demonized. Yes, there is a national shark attack

00:46:02.280 database in Australia called the Australian shark attack file that is now being renamed the shark

00:46:09.920 incident database. So the word attack is removed. In fact, the word attack is gone from the site

00:46:17.920 entirely and replaced with more precise terms like bites, interactions, and negative encounters.

00:46:25.600 Did you have a negative encounter with a shark? Perhaps that shark looked at you in a way that felt

00:46:31.500 inappropriate. Yes, yes. Shark attacks are rare. You are more likely to be struck by lightning or killed

00:46:39.080 while driving than to be bitten by a shark. So the stigma of a shark attack is unnecessarily harmful

00:46:46.180 to the reputation of these kind fish. They're misunderstood. You see one shark exhibit manager

00:46:52.340 in Australia said movies have led to a harmful portrayal of sharks. These poor creatures aren't

00:46:58.600 trying to attack you. They just don't know better, say their advocates. This is a real quote.

00:47:04.340 Sharks don't have hands. They have teeth. And in order for them to feel around their environment,

00:47:10.640 they use their mouth. And unfortunately, that can have bad consequences on people. But it's quite rare.

00:47:17.740 Yes, it can. Very bad consequences. Plus, she said, they can't see very well. They have a disability.

00:47:24.440 You see, they can't see very well, you shark hater. So just hold your hatred. So the next time you go to

00:47:30.220 the beach and joke about a shark attack, you better think twice. Because at least down under in Australia,

00:47:37.020 you can't say that. So tell it to Peter Benchley and the maker of Jaws. By the way, I do. Peter

00:47:43.580 Benchley actually wound up saying he felt bad that his book and the movie Jaws that was based on his

00:47:49.080 book unfairly demonized shark sharks because they don't generally want to eat us. But they do attack

00:47:55.960 and kill us. And I don't think the parents of those who have been killed or the loved ones would be

00:48:00.340 comfortable calling it a negative encounter. Shark attack gets it done. And grown up people can

00:48:06.980 understand that not all sharks mean to eat us. We'll be right back with Zuby right after this quick break.

00:48:13.600 So Zuby, let's talk for a minute about January 6th. It's in two days. And to me, it's so obvious the

00:48:26.940 media loves to talk about this. The Democrats love to talk about this. I mean, I think most Americans

00:48:34.160 understand this was a very unfortunate day and episode in our history that we don't really want

00:48:39.520 to keep reliving over and over. The people who were on Capitol Hill that day are being held

00:48:44.540 responsible. They're being prosecuted. And we've most of us have kind of moved on. Right. Trump's

00:48:49.820 no longer in office. If he runs again, we'll deal with that at the voter box, whether you're pro or

00:48:55.040 anti. But like the obsession and the media is they love it. They're there. It's like when we have a puppy,

00:49:02.160 we have two dogs. One is two and a half and we have a puppy. And when we let the dogs out in the lawn,

00:49:06.600 I mean, the dog, the puppy, he runs to the dirtiest corner of the lawn and he just rolls around in the

00:49:12.280 dirt and the leaves and whatever the hell else is in there. And he loves it. He enjoys it. You can

00:49:17.140 see it's like, oh, God, strut. Anyway, that's the media in January 6th. They enjoy it. Right. Why do

00:49:23.520 they enjoy it so much? Well, what's that phrase? If it bleeds, it leads. Right. They the power and the

00:49:31.660 control and the money that comes from keeping people in a permanent fear loop or a permanent

00:49:38.700 negativity loop of fear, anger, outrage, all of these things, you know, due to the nature of the

00:49:46.460 human condition, which is very sensitive, perhaps more sensitive to negativity than to positivity.

00:49:53.080 These things make money. They garner attention. They get people paying attention and they also make

00:50:00.060 it easier to push an agenda or to control people. You keep people fighting. You keep people divided.

00:50:07.040 You keep people distracted by various types of nonsense. You refuse to move on on certain things 0.50

00:50:13.960 whilst you move on very quickly on other things, which are actually far more important and far more

00:50:19.480 catastrophic and deadly, even in some circumstances. And that's just the way the game is played. I think

00:50:26.200 that it's the way the incentives are laid out. And I don't think it's something that's totally new,

00:50:31.180 but I think it's something that has really become more exaggerated, especially over the past decade in

00:50:38.120 particular. It's to me, it's so hypocritical because you see CNN and these other channels completely

00:50:45.280 lionizing the members of the Capitol Hill police who got hurt that day. And they couldn't care less 0.60

00:50:52.200 about law enforcement. They said nothing as law enforcement was attacked, hurt, and in some instances

00:50:57.920 killed during the BLM riots of the preceding summer. They didn't care at all. They're just lionizing these guys 0.70

00:51:04.120 because they think it makes Trump and in particular his supporters, not all Republicans, but they've expanded

00:51:11.140 it to anybody who's on the right, look bad. You know, they think it's a chance to make them look bad. And it was not

00:51:16.160 a good day for Trump or his supporters. And I don't know, maybe not for Republicans either. I don't know. But to me,

00:51:22.960 it's just so hypocritical. And the way they talk about it, there's a woman over on CNN, Juliette Kayyem, right? CNN, 0.94

00:51:28.300 she's on. And she was interviewed recently about January 6th. And I would say the way she talks about it embodies the

00:51:35.940 way most of the left thinks about it. Here's that moment. Watch this.

00:51:38.880 As we gear up for one six anniversary coverage, we're posting my take then. Many criticized this

00:51:45.320 for calling Trump the leader of a terror movement who uses violence or threat of as an extension of

00:51:50.080 politics. After a year, I think I was too kind. So if you think you were too kind to call him a

00:51:56.760 extremist leader then, what would you call him now?

00:52:00.520 Well, he continues to be the leader of an organization that uses violence or the threat of violence to

00:52:06.280 disrupt democratic processes. That is terrorism. And I think, you know, we tend to focus on

00:52:12.160 different pieces of the post-January 6th world. So we have the election systems and the states and the fights over

00:52:18.660 states and voting rights. We then have the investigation, the January 6th, and then all the cases that are going on

00:52:24.720 against people who were in the Capitol. But I think we sometimes forget that what sort of connects everything is

00:52:32.880 violent. That's what that's what connects everything. He's the leader of a terrorist group.

00:52:38.100 And then you've got the New York Times weighing in saying with a headline that reads this January 1

00:52:42.420 every day is January 6th. Now, every day, talking about how Republicans are working to change laws

00:52:50.360 to advance the goals of the January 6th rioters. Hundreds of bills have been proposed and nearly three

00:52:56.900 dozen laws have been passed that empower state legislatures to sabotage their own elections and

00:53:01.340 overturn the will of the voters and go on and on from there. So every day is January 6th. Trump is

00:53:07.800 the leader of a terrorist cult. And this is why he must be stopped in January 6th. Hearings and 0.99

00:53:12.920 investigation must go on in perpetuity until somebody, Zuby, somebody other than the actual

00:53:18.720 rioters, I guess, is held to account. Yeah, I can speak very much as an as an outsider on this one.

00:53:26.440 I'm a non-American. I'm not a Democrat. I'm not a Republican. I am someone who loves the USA.

00:53:32.920 But one thing with the USA is that everything is so hyperbolic and partisan and exaggerated.

00:53:42.920 And it gets exhausting. Like it gets so much. I mean, it's great that people become passionate about

00:53:51.120 things. But when it's always this us versus them and left versus right and red versus blue and this

00:53:57.880 and that, it becomes a, I don't know. It's very, very exhausting, especially considering that most

00:54:03.720 people are not sort of firmly in any one of these camps. I mean, the notion that there's only sort of

00:54:09.080 two political views or parties in a country of over 330 million people is mind blowing to me to begin

00:54:15.960 with. But as someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight, but as someone who has lots of American

00:54:20.920 followers and friends and supporters, I don't know. I just wish that there could be less of this

00:54:30.320 dishonest, super ultra-partisan hackery. I don't think it's good for the nation. I don't think it's good

00:54:40.180 for, I don't think it's good for individuals. And I don't think it's good for the collective

00:54:45.240 society is either, you know, always putting people at each other's throats, whether it's along

00:54:51.020 political lines or racial lines or this lines or that lines. I think it's something that has always

00:54:56.740 existed to some degree, for sure. But it really seems like it's been amping up over the last few

00:55:04.260 years. And I think that if it goes unchecked, then it's going to result in more disruption and more

00:55:13.320 polarization and ultimately in more violence, because there's only three ways you can resolve

00:55:17.780 any conflict. You can talk it out, you can separate, segregate, divorce, or you can physically

00:55:24.260 fight. Those are the only three ways to solve any type of conflict. And when number one is getting

00:55:31.440 shut down and people are not allowed to speak or fearful to speak, or people are being deplatformed

00:55:36.080 or censored or ridiculed or this or that for their very basic and moderate ideas, then that's a

00:55:41.840 problem. And then, you know, unless you want to have a full-on secession and split into multiple

00:55:47.620 countries, then you certainly want to avoid two. And so number one needs to always be held open,

00:55:54.980 because otherwise that's when you end up with, that's when you end up with violence. That's when you end up

00:55:59.660 with these protests turning into riots, which are then turning into people getting murdered and

00:56:05.500 people getting hurt and people fighting in the streets and this and that. And then when you have

00:56:10.140 dishonest people in the media who are just throwing more fuel on that fire, I think it's deeply

00:56:15.600 irresponsible, you know? And I think that it's important for all Americans, whether people are in

00:56:20.560 the media or in politics or outside of it, to just do their best to bring the temperature down

00:56:25.720 a little bit. I feel like the temperature is really, really heating up. And some people would

00:56:29.960 like to try to blame this on one individual or one politician or anything like that. But I think

00:56:34.500 it's actually a sort of collective responsibility and duty for that to happen. But I think that it

00:56:41.860 needs to start at an individual level. And I don't know. That's one of the things I look at in the

00:56:50.460 States. And here, you know, I'm in the UK right now. And in the UK, of course, there are certain

00:56:55.800 issues with politics and with the media and so on. But it's not as hyper-polarized and hyper-partisan.

00:57:02.500 I think that's something that's relatively unique to the USA in a way.

00:57:07.340 Great. Lucky us. I'll say a couple of points in response to that. Yes, completely overstated.

00:57:13.960 One of my beefs when they were talking about, when the media was reporting on this, was

00:57:17.500 several outlets from the Huffington Post to somebody from the Washington Post,

00:57:22.500 somebody from ABC, I could go on, referred to this as worse than 9-11. January 6th as worse than 9-11.

00:57:29.000 When 3,000 Americans were slaughtered before our very eyes, including children. How dare they?

00:57:33.540 How dare they? And I don't care how many times they try to shame me. Now they say,

00:57:38.520 I downplay it. No, I'm not downplaying it. You're overplaying it. It was bad. It was embarrassing.

00:57:44.820 It was a disgrace. It wasn't anything close to 9-11 and shame on anyone who makes that comparison.

00:57:51.600 But secondly, I would say not only is it bad for the country, it's bad for Democrats.

00:57:55.580 I don't think the Democrats want to continue talking about Donald Trump. I think the media does.

00:58:00.680 I think Democratic leaders want to talk about him because he's become their boogeyman.

00:58:04.760 But I think most Democrats would like to move on. They would like to find their next round leader.

00:58:09.740 I think they've realized it's unlikely to be Biden or Harris or Pete Buttigieg, at least next time around.

00:58:16.320 And they're worried about what's going to happen at the top in 2024, as they should be.

00:58:21.140 And this constant like we got to go back to Trump is just a card.

00:58:25.480 America, other than his core supporters, is ready to move on to the next topic, right?

00:58:29.700 The next topic of conversation. So I think they do this at their own peril.

00:58:33.280 I don't think even the Democrats are in the mood for months and months more of Donald Trump, MAGA, and January 6th recriminations.

00:58:42.160 But we'll see because I think the ship has sailed and they're going to pay a price for this come November.

00:58:47.540 Let me ask you about text censorship, which you mentioned. That's been in the news very much this week.

00:58:52.000 We had a couple of issues. Marjorie Taylor Greene now permanently banned from Twitter. 1.00

00:58:56.940 I guess she also said that she was banned from Facebook, but Facebook says that's not true.

00:59:00.380 So she's a she's a congresswoman and she her her official congress person's account is still open.

00:59:06.640 But her personal account permanently closed on Twitter.

00:59:09.460 They say for misinformation, she questioned the safety of the vaccines and said that they've killed a lot of people, something to that effect.

00:59:17.020 So she's gone permanently. So is Trump permanently from Twitter.

00:59:20.500 And then you have Dr. Malone, who went on with Joe Rogan and that episode.

00:59:26.000 And he's the guy who helped invent the MRNA text vaccine technology.

00:59:30.500 He gave an interview to Brett Weinstein and Brett Weinstein had troubles with this, too.

00:59:35.300 I had Brett Weinstein on the show on summer, really debriefed him about it.

00:59:37.980 We went over, you know, the claims made and so on was not deplatformed.

00:59:42.620 And the episode stands if you want to go listen to it.

00:59:45.940 But I'm concerned that the Joe Rogan episode was pulled by YouTube.

00:59:49.080 It's still on Spotify, where Rogan's show now lives.

00:59:52.120 But more and more, big tech has said there are certain things you may not say.

00:59:56.160 You may not question vaccines.

00:59:58.060 You certainly may not, you know, as the inventor of the MRNA vaccine, get out there and, you know, cast doubt on the power and the motives of big tech.

01:00:05.020 And I've said from the beginning, Zuby, I think some of this, as you just alluded to, was baked into the minds of the people storming on January 6th. 0.97

01:00:15.200 Some of this distrust, like every time we censor somebody, even if they say stupid shit, you know, like it it leads to a distrust in sort of the previously accepted mainstream avenues of information. 0.97

01:00:28.760 And so it's only a downward spiral. 0.99

01:00:31.660 Yeah, absolutely.

01:00:32.640 And, you know, look, our societies are supposed to be based on some certain basic principles, such as liberty, freedom, treating people equally, human rights, dignity, so on and so forth.

01:00:49.020 And people also need to remember that, yes, of course, a private company, an actual private company, I mean, whether these are truly private companies at this stage is certainly debatable.

01:00:58.900 We understand that they have a right to have terms and conditions and to have policies and things like that.

01:01:05.460 However, in the spirit of liberty and freedom and just overall human decency, you need to allow people to talk and to converse and to debate.

01:01:15.180 When you are censoring and banning and deplatforming someone who has a patent for nine mRNA vaccine related patents, someone who is instrumental dating back to the 80s and even creating these vaccines that people are now worshiping.

01:01:36.540 And that's someone who you are trying to censor for speaking openly about it, that that's a huge problem.

01:01:43.000 And he's not the he's not the only doctor that has been been silenced on this issue, let alone the only individual.

01:01:49.860 But, you know, these organizations and people who make these decisions also need to understand, you know, every every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

01:01:59.480 And when they do this, they are completely destroying trust in their own institutions.

01:02:05.580 One thing about the truth is that the truth is not afraid of confrontation.

01:02:11.720 It's not afraid of debate.

01:02:13.360 It's not afraid of questions and challenge.

01:02:14.960 And if you want to talk about science, there's nothing more important in science than being able to ask questions, being able to challenge things.

01:02:23.120 Because if someone is telling me that they are an expert on any given subject and they become indignant when I ask them a question or try to stop me from asking a question or to for making a remark or just having a conversation and debate about it, then you entirely lose trust in that individual.

01:02:40.240 And you also lose trust in the expertise as well.

01:02:43.300 And I really think they're overplaying their hand with all of this, and I think it creates a huge opening for potential competitors, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

01:02:54.000 But I think it would be fantastic if people in general could just go back to this concept of being able to support people's right to speak, whether you agree or you disagree or you have questions.

01:03:06.620 Look, none of us have the absolute truth on any given subject.

01:03:10.840 But if we all want to become wiser and smarter and more knowledgeable and more empathetic, then we do that by conversing with each other.

01:03:19.820 If you want to understand somebody else's perspective or somebody else's concerns or you really want to know what's going on, then you need to be able to talk to people.

01:03:28.240 You need to be able to listen to people.

01:03:29.660 And, you know, I think the reason why someone like Joe Rogan's show is doing multiples of what anybody in the mainstream media is doing is simply because he understands this and he's open to being honest and asking hard questions and really going in depth on all of these various issues.

01:03:49.260 And people should not be afraid of conversation itself.

01:03:53.380 Like I said, if we're not able to have these conversations and we're not able to speak honestly, then ultimately it is going to end up in various forms of physical violence or separation.

01:04:04.480 And I don't think that's what people I don't think that's what most people want.

01:04:08.620 I think most people are able to get on with each other in day to day life.

01:04:11.820 We do it in all these cities and states and countries every single day and people are not out there constantly fighting in the streets.

01:04:18.320 So, as I said before, I think that that temperature in general just needs to come down.

01:04:23.460 People need to return to their senses and we need to be able to be open and honest and have conversations and have debates on all of these important issues.

01:04:32.220 They, of course, only ever do it the one way.

01:04:34.820 I mean, maybe not only ever, but 90 percent of the time it's banning some conservative or somebody who's a heterodox thinker.

01:04:41.820 Pushing back on one of these main lines we've been fed, whether it's about the origins of the COVID virus or something about the vaccines.

01:04:48.840 Man, that's one thing you cannot touch.

01:04:50.600 You say something negative about the vaccines, they will ban you.

01:04:53.560 And it's insane because people know Spotify is not banning Joe Rogan, so they know there's a way of getting the information.

01:04:59.820 So that's just going to drive them to Spotify.

01:05:01.360 It's not going to make them, you know, not get the info, right?

01:05:04.620 And so what does YouTube think it's accomplishing?

01:05:06.940 I mean, even when we talk about COVID on this show, like yesterday's show, they always slap a warning on it on YouTube.

01:05:12.500 Like for COVID information, go to this spot.

01:05:15.200 OK, that's fine.

01:05:16.180 It's YouTube site.

01:05:17.040 They can do that.

01:05:17.620 That actually doesn't bother me.

01:05:19.080 I guarantee you.

01:05:19.780 Absolutely.

01:05:20.040 Nobody clicks on that.

01:05:21.200 Absolutely not.

01:05:21.880 I guarantee you not a single person clicks on it.

01:05:25.000 But if it makes YouTube feel better, fine.

01:05:27.180 It's their platform.

01:05:28.020 However, that's as far as it should go.

01:05:31.340 You know, even if they wanted to do a link to, hey, here's somebody on the left who's got a different point of view, I'd be fine with that, too.

01:05:37.360 But to remove it altogether as though like these words cannot be spoken.

01:05:44.180 And I would even go so far as to say, yes, I see the situations where they should do that.

01:05:49.720 I was totally in favor of removing the ISIS videos on how to make a homemade bomb.

01:05:55.020 What is the purpose of leaving that on there?

01:05:57.220 What's the positive to society and leaving that there?

01:06:00.320 But you can't say the same about a discussion with Dr. Malone.

01:06:03.460 Come on.

01:06:03.920 And yet they grow and they grow.

01:06:06.100 And every time a conservative tries to start a new platform, it seems weak and meandering and not all that hopeful.

01:06:14.220 Even the one that Joe Rogan's promoting, Gutter, by Jason Miller, former Trump associate, Getter, not Gutter, Getter.

01:06:21.840 Getter, yeah.

01:06:22.640 Look, I'd love to see it grow and become strong.

01:06:25.360 But right now it's like Joe Rogan's got 8 million followers.

01:06:27.960 Well, that's not real.

01:06:28.940 They actually count Joe Rogan's Twitter followers, which that's not, Getter is not as big as Twitter, not anywhere close.

01:06:36.760 And you saw what they did to Parler, which is now a shadow of its former self and so on.

01:06:41.380 Yeah, absolutely.

01:06:43.560 You know, I really think that they're shooting themselves in the foot.

01:06:46.320 I think, look, in the grand scheme of things, we also need to remember how new this all is.

01:06:51.540 When we're talking about social media and we're talking about all the, we're less than two decades into all of this.

01:06:56.080 So I think that there are a lot of growing pains.

01:06:59.880 There are a lot of teething problems.

01:07:01.220 There are a lot of things that are still to be worked out.

01:07:05.080 We haven't had these technologies for centuries.

01:07:09.000 And so, sure, there are going to be, some things are going to be mistakes.

01:07:13.840 Some things are going to be intentional and malicious.

01:07:16.960 Some things are going to be purely political and, you know, politically motivated.

01:07:21.840 But I do remain optimistic in the long term.

01:07:26.560 I think that if you run a company and you continue to make poor decisions or you even

01:07:32.960 de-platform all of the interesting people on your platform, it doesn't matter whether you're

01:07:37.780 the size of YouTube or Facebook or Twitter.

01:07:40.920 Eventually, you're going to have a competitor that is going to come through and rise up.

01:07:45.800 Every time you do this, you're creating an opening for more and more competitors.

01:07:50.720 So while there's going to be a lot of turmoil and problems in the short term, I do believe

01:07:56.160 that in the long term, things are going to work themselves out.

01:07:58.520 You're having more and more decentralized technologies coming up and you're getting more

01:08:03.180 and more platforms that are coming.

01:08:04.840 Now, sure, they might be in the early stage.

01:08:07.000 But I remember when Twitter and Facebook and all these other platforms were very much in

01:08:11.400 their early stage.

01:08:12.360 And, you know, I don't maintain, I don't hold the position that any of these big tech

01:08:17.500 companies is untouchable.

01:08:21.120 There are some people who seem to believe that, that, you know, there's no way that Facebook

01:08:24.800 could be toppled or there's no way that Google or Twitter or even Amazon could be toppled.

01:08:30.220 They can all be toppled.

01:08:31.320 If they make bad decision after bad decision after bad decision, then there are going to

01:08:35.760 be entrepreneurs who come up with new ideas and technologies that do the job better and serve

01:08:41.240 to people better.

01:08:42.380 That's a good point.

01:08:42.500 It might take a while.

01:08:43.000 Don't forget, MySpace was the big, was the big first, you know, social media giant.

01:08:47.400 I remember Rupert Murdoch bought that just as I started at Fox News and it was like, oh,

01:08:51.340 wow, that's a, that's an exciting investment.

01:08:53.360 Wrong, wrong, right?

01:08:55.320 Like, of course, Facebook took off and that was the end of that.

01:08:58.640 I remember when I had 30,000 followers on MySpace and I was, I remember when, uh, when

01:09:04.680 MySpace, uh, lost its gusto and I lost access to that.

01:09:08.620 Well, at least you didn't have hundreds of millions of dollars invested like Rupert, although

01:09:13.080 Rupert, he's doing fine.

01:09:14.600 He can take the hit.

01:09:16.320 Um, okay.

01:09:17.280 Weird turn, but let me just ask you quickly, because speaking of not being deplatformed,

01:09:21.900 but getting blowback.

01:09:22.900 So I, I don't, I don't say the names of shooters on my show.

01:09:28.640 I, I haven't in over a decade, these mass shooters, because they often want infamy and

01:09:33.840 I declined to help.

01:09:34.600 So, um, I'll just start with that, but there was yet another mass shooting in, um, Denver

01:09:42.060 on December 27th.

01:09:43.640 The gunman killed five people, wounded several others, including a police officer, um, in

01:09:48.060 a shooting spree and included a car chase and gunfights with law enforcement and so on.

01:09:51.540 And the man who was killed was 47 years old.

01:09:54.000 And what's crazy is this guy was on your podcast.

01:09:58.520 So, and I understand people are giving you weird blowback, like, why did you, uh, whatever

01:10:02.840 that I'm, uh, that's just nonsense, right?

01:10:05.180 You didn't know there was going to be a mass shooter.

01:10:06.460 When you interviewed him, he had a series of books out that you thought was interesting

01:10:09.940 and wanted to talk to him about it.

01:10:11.280 I get it.

01:10:12.080 But were you shocked when you heard, cause it turns out not only did he kill five people,

01:10:17.200 but two of the people he shot, according to what I read, he named in his book series

01:10:22.300 as then, you know, sort of fictional characters who would be shot.

01:10:26.200 And then he did in fact, kill them.

01:10:28.900 It's such a crazy story.

01:10:30.600 And I just wonder how it affected you personally when you learned that news that this guy, you

01:10:35.660 know, went on and did this.

01:10:36.620 This is still very new news.

01:10:39.140 Yeah.

01:10:39.460 I mean, in terms of the news itself, it affected me in the same way, any other horrible tragedy

01:10:46.820 or incident that I'm not connected to would human beings losing their, you know, losing

01:10:53.540 innocent lives, um, violently for no reason, not like there really can be a reason per se.

01:11:02.200 It's always sad.

01:11:03.500 It's always harrowing.

01:11:05.020 Um, I put out just one statement about this because of course, when you've got people who

01:11:11.100 view you as a political opponent or ideological opponent or whatever, they're going to use

01:11:16.520 whatever stick that they can find to attempt to, to hit you with it.

01:11:21.500 So I just put out one single statement about that.

01:11:24.620 Um, but honestly, I'm not, you know, I have no connection to it.

01:11:30.340 Anyone who was trying to implicate me in this somehow or say that, oh, you know, you know

01:11:35.880 this, I mean, you, you must've interviewed hundreds of thousands of people throughout your

01:11:39.820 career.

01:11:40.360 I've definitely interviewed killers for sure.

01:11:42.700 Yeah, exactly.

01:11:43.260 So, so the notion that, you know, you have anything to do with their past or future actions 0.92

01:11:50.240 years down the line is totally ridiculous and disingenuous.

01:11:54.360 So I put out a statement just to say that as well as just to give condolences to, you 0.65

01:11:58.460 know, people who were directly affected by it.

01:12:01.840 For me, that's it.

01:12:03.860 I don't really have anything else to, anything more to say on that.

01:12:07.680 Um, it's a sad story.

01:12:10.200 It's, it's tragic.

01:12:10.940 Can I ask you, when you spoke with this guy, did you get a sense, like, cause I've looked

01:12:15.840 back that the killers I've interviewed are people for the most part, some exceptions

01:12:19.900 who were like out there denying that they killed their wives before we actually knew

01:12:24.100 that.

01:12:24.360 Yes, they did.

01:12:24.900 Right.

01:12:25.080 So like they're coming on doing a media tour, like, no, I didn't do it.

01:12:27.780 And you're always like, right.

01:12:31.160 So when you interviewed this guy, he was just an author with some provocative writings.

01:12:35.980 That's it.

01:12:36.600 And so now when you look back and I think you did the right thing, you pulled the YouTube

01:12:41.060 interview, um, version though, I, I think there's an audio that still exists, but when

01:12:45.800 you look back now, do you see like, ah, there were signs or there were red flags or, you know,

01:12:51.680 I always look back at my interviews and say like, yes, I can see that's where he was lying

01:12:55.120 or that kind of thing.

01:12:55.840 Um, honestly, no, honestly, no, you know, people like to try to retroactively fit these

01:13:02.160 things based on the knowledge that they now have several years later.

01:13:06.420 Um, but honestly, no, I mean, in the world of writing and art and music and everything

01:13:12.720 like that, and just life in general, sure.

01:13:14.460 Some people are a little bit eccentric or have strange stories or whatever it is.

01:13:21.040 Um, but the notion that, you know, oh, this is something that was a, an obvious red flag

01:13:27.540 or something like that.

01:13:28.360 Honestly, honestly, no, I've actually kept up the audio version of the interview, um,

01:13:34.160 for, for posterity.

01:13:35.980 Um, I didn't want to have it on YouTube number one, cause I didn't want to profit from it

01:13:39.780 in any way.

01:13:40.860 Um, but also for anyone who was potentially, you know, affected by it in some way, I just

01:13:46.900 kind of felt like it's not proper to have the video out there on the world's second

01:13:51.560 biggest search engine.

01:13:53.120 Um, but yeah, no, that I don't, I don't really have much more to say beyond what I put out

01:13:58.620 in that, in that single statement.

01:14:00.200 Well, it's lunacy for anybody to be, you shouldn't be associated with this person in, in, in any

01:14:06.360 way other than you once interviewed him and for anybody to be saying you shouldn't have

01:14:11.360 because he wrote violent books.

01:14:12.960 Well, that's nonsense.

01:14:14.040 There are a lot of violent books out there, tons of violent books.

01:14:16.140 And which the authors don't go on to create, to create mass carnage.

01:14:20.120 It's just an awful situation.

01:14:21.980 And I, sorry, you got swept up in, in, in any way, you know, just that your name was

01:14:26.520 even mentioned.

01:14:26.980 I did, I did think it was worth asking you cause I just think it's so eerie when you find

01:14:31.400 out after the fact that, you know, somebody you've been talking to had a secret site or

01:14:36.540 was holding up a veil or, you know, cause clearly this guy was disturbed, I'm sure for a long

01:14:40.880 time.

01:14:41.680 And yeah, the condolences to those who were killed and those who are grieving.

01:14:45.120 Um, the, those murdered by this guy, uh, there's so much to go over with Zuby, including what

01:14:50.540 I want to look.

01:14:51.420 He's been very outspoken on race and he pushes back on all this crazy, just, you know, everything's

01:14:56.800 got to be about our skin color and our lady parts and all that stuff. 1.00

01:15:00.440 Well, there's insanity happening at Arizona state.

01:15:04.060 These two girls who got these two white men kicked out of their cultural, their multicultural 0.83

01:15:09.700 center, cause they were white men who had something supportive of police and anti-Joe

01:15:14.360 Biden on them now claim they have been victimized by the university.

01:15:19.460 We're going to play the latest soundbite and get Zuby's reaction.

01:15:22.920 So Zuby, Arizona state university, um, it was in the month, it was in the news a couple

01:15:33.100 of months ago because I guess they built a multicultural center and two white guys went

01:15:40.000 there and started studying and this upset two women of color who got up in their grill 1.00

01:15:46.760 telling them to leave at one of them had a, I didn't vote for Joe Biden t-shirt on one

01:15:53.080 of them had a sticker on his laptop.

01:15:54.840 It says something like a police matter and, um, they were drinking a Chick-fil-a cup.

01:16:01.300 So it's like Chick-fil-a has gone multiple different ways on these woke issues.

01:16:05.260 So I don't know what that's supposed to mean.

01:16:07.260 Um, here's a clip of the original incident for which the two young women we now know have

01:16:14.160 been disciplined and they are mad as they were in this original video.

01:16:19.560 Watch.

01:16:21.840 You have a bad, you're, you're offensive.

01:16:25.140 Police lives matter.

01:16:28.200 We're just trying to do school.

01:16:30.180 What?

01:16:30.740 You guys have the same stick with the other.

01:16:32.380 But this is our space.

01:16:34.960 We've got a police lives matter sticker and we're getting kicked out.

01:16:38.240 Can't do school.

01:16:40.720 You just said we have to leave. 0.99

01:16:42.380 No, I said, you're making the space uncomfortable, but you're white. 1.00

01:16:47.560 Do you understand what a multicultural space? 0.88

01:16:49.860 It means you're not being centered. 0.86

01:16:51.260 White's not a culture. 0.98

01:16:52.300 No, no, it's not a culture. 0.98

01:16:54.060 It's white is not a culture. 0.91

01:16:55.620 Say it again to the camera.

01:16:56.960 You think whiteness is a culture? 0.98

01:16:59.160 This is insane. 0.98

01:17:00.500 So anyway, this is the violence that ASU does.

01:17:03.340 And this is the type of people that they protect.

01:17:05.660 Okay. 0.89

01:17:06.200 This white man thinks he can take up our space.

01:17:08.840 And this is why we need a multicultural space, because they think they can get away with 1.00

01:17:12.900 this shit. 1.00

01:17:15.480 Okay. 1.00

01:17:16.140 Meanwhile, just for the record, those two guys are just sitting there.

01:17:18.460 They were just sitting there studying.

01:17:19.780 They weren't running around trying to, you know, engage in dialogue about police or anything

01:17:24.800 else.

01:17:25.120 They had their stickers and so on.

01:17:26.920 So the university launches an investigation, um, because in the multicultural center, you 1.00

01:17:33.400 are actually not allowed to kick out the white people and you're not allowed to treat others 0.97

01:17:38.400 this way on campus, uh, property, harassing them.

01:17:41.800 And they found these two gals guilty of misbehavior. 1.00

01:17:46.900 Um, and, uh, they, I guess their, their actual crime was, you know, quote crime was interfering

01:17:52.540 with university's activities, uh, after they harassed these two white students. 0.84

01:17:56.500 That's what the university found.

01:17:57.580 And the two gals, uh, who are, one's an undergraduate, Mastani Qureshi, and one's a graduate student,

01:18:06.280 Sarah Tekola, are most unhappy.

01:18:10.360 Zubi, here they are. 0.89

01:18:12.680 Dear white people, AKA ASU, you openly discriminated against us on November 16th when you handed down

01:18:21.940 your decision from your racially biased investigation.

01:18:25.580 We are being persecuted for defending our multicultural center from racism and sexism.

01:18:32.300 You gave us two punishments.

01:18:34.500 The first one was a warning.

01:18:36.500 And the second one was to write a three page paper on how next time when we talk with white 0.97

01:18:44.740 people about race and society, we will be civil.

01:18:48.540 This video is in fulfillment of our educational intervention.

01:18:53.700 We're going to give ASU an educational intervention on why telling students of color at ASU to be 1.00

01:19:00.340 more civil in the face of white supremacy and neo-Nazism on this campus is actually violent.

01:19:07.820 So that now these kids are white supremacists and neo-Nazis and these girls were just standing 1.00

01:19:16.700 up to the modern day Hitler and, and our victims for being called to account for that harassment.

01:19:22.600 Your thoughts?

01:19:24.760 Yeah, the bar is low now, man.

01:19:26.160 I actually have a lot of thoughts on this.

01:19:28.380 My first thought, and this may be slightly unorthodox, my first immediate thought is that

01:19:35.180 we live in an age now that everyone has a video camera in their pockets and the ability

01:19:43.640 to post things on social media and all of this, where this story, which is really something

01:19:49.020 that as far as I'm concerned, shouldn't go outside the university itself.

01:19:54.120 And I'm somehow here sitting in England.

01:19:56.580 I watched it when it came out and, you know, millions of people all around the world saw

01:19:59.920 it and whatever.

01:20:00.540 And firstly, I feel a weird way about that because I think that so many things get blown

01:20:07.780 up and individuals get highlighted.

01:20:10.380 You can take all four people who are involved in this incident, the two men and the two young

01:20:15.020 women, and we live in this weird time where people can be completely destroyed over that. 1.00

01:20:22.080 And I think that everybody involved, again, needs to be a little more cautious with this,

01:20:28.480 right?

01:20:28.880 I mean, it seems like they were trying their best to get these two men in trouble and it

01:20:36.680 ended up backfiring on them. 1.00

01:20:38.740 But first thing I want to say, like nobody should have their life destroyed over this stupid 1.00

01:20:44.340 incident. 0.99

01:20:45.020 My next point is that this is the monster that has been created by the activism that

01:20:54.420 is pushed in some of these schools and universities.

01:20:56.740 If you listen to the way these girls are speaking and you listen to the language, it's extraordinarily 1.00

01:21:01.480 unnatural.

01:21:03.040 This is activist language.

01:21:05.160 Nobody talks like that normally.

01:21:08.840 You can tell that they are activists.

01:21:10.160 You are not being centered.

01:21:10.360 Yeah, like that's a complete hardcore left-wing activist phrase.

01:21:16.700 Like people don't use that term the way they're even using the term, you know, centering,

01:21:21.760 white supremacy, you know, BIPOC people. 1.00

01:21:26.780 All of these phrases, this is activist terminology.

01:21:30.720 So the universities should not be shocked when these things happen, when they are the ones

01:21:37.080 who are indoctrinating people into this line of thinking.

01:21:40.720 I mean, I don't even know what a multicultural center in a university is.

01:21:44.540 When I was at university, we did not have multicultural centers.

01:21:47.520 Every part of the campus, every part of the city was multicultural.

01:21:52.120 Like anyone is allowed in any place and that's all it is.

01:21:56.140 You're treating people fairly and equally.

01:21:57.800 When people just start going back to this notion of seeing people based on their skin

01:22:01.880 color, their race, their ethnicity or whatever, nothing good comes of it.

01:22:05.200 Even if people think that they're doing it for a good reason or an activist reason or equity

01:22:10.260 or whatever nonsense they've been brainwashed into believing, it's not positive.

01:22:15.220 Once you are purely seeing people's skin color and you're judging people and, uh, you know,

01:22:22.540 having prejudices and treating them differently based on that, uh, you're back to a funny little

01:22:27.780 thing, which is called racism.

01:22:29.380 And the way to defeat racism isn't to be racist in the other direction.

01:22:36.360 It's to simply not behave in this way and just treat people decently and treat people as

01:22:42.020 human beings.

01:22:42.860 So I hope that the four people involved in this thing, honestly, I'd love it if they could

01:22:46.500 just sit down and just have a conversation like normal human beings and understand each

01:22:50.680 other's perspectives and agree to disagree.

01:22:54.020 And who knows, maybe even end up becoming friends.

01:22:57.180 That's really how these things should go.

01:22:59.420 But I don't, I don't want to see anyone's life get ruined over this whole incident.

01:23:04.060 I think it's actually an important teaching point, a teaching moment where you can just sit

01:23:09.080 everybody down and see, look, this is the monster that we have created.

01:23:13.940 This is what's going on.

01:23:15.120 This little incident here is a microcosm of what's going on in wider society.

01:23:19.940 And what can we do to stop this from happening?

01:23:23.220 Because again, this is a relatively new phenomenon.

01:23:26.940 Well, it'd be nice.

01:23:27.640 It'd be nice if Arizona state took this as a reasonable chance to stop its wokefication 1.00

01:23:34.860 and say, this is not the way forward.

01:23:37.080 And if you give one inch, you've given already the entire, forget mile, the entire game is

01:23:42.980 gone.

01:23:43.580 Because once you open the door to sort of this nonsense and entertaining this, like words

01:23:47.940 are violence and, you know, the white person can't be in the multicultural center with the 0.83

01:23:53.240 thing that supports cops.

01:23:55.100 Once you start even engaging in that, you've lost, you know, you've lost.

01:23:58.640 And there's no better example of any of that than what happened to Brett Weinstein,

01:24:02.180 speaking of him at Evergreen College and go back and look at those tapes of the students

01:24:06.220 inside the head of school's office, screaming at the guy.

01:24:09.940 He wanted to go to the bathroom.

01:24:11.340 They, you know, had to ask for permission.

01:24:13.320 It was just the most awful example of where this goes.

01:24:18.420 Once you open the door to this kind of ridiculous messaging, I said to these students at Stanford,

01:24:23.820 I was out there talking to them not long ago, last year or the year before, words are

01:24:28.040 not violence.

01:24:30.300 They're not.

01:24:31.320 And these are Stanford graduate students who looked at me, Zuby, and said, yes, they are.

01:24:36.660 Like, you're going to have to grow up.

01:24:39.620 Sorry, but you're just going to have to grow up.

01:24:41.220 It's brainwashing, Megan. 0.99

01:24:42.040 It's brainwashing.

01:24:42.960 And it's recent.

01:24:44.360 I mean, look, I graduated university in 2007 and none of this was going on at that time.

01:24:50.680 This is something that has really, really started hitting hard in the past seven to eight

01:24:56.580 years.

01:24:57.120 It's really exploded.

01:24:58.520 All of these concepts, all of this language, literally the way they are speaking, the phraseology

01:25:03.760 in terms that they are using are new.

01:25:07.500 These are things that have been programmed into people.

01:25:10.420 These are ideas that have been programmed, again, often by universities, if not by schools

01:25:15.620 prior to that.

01:25:16.460 And this is a perfect manifestation of where it leads.

01:25:21.200 Now, if anyone ever has a question around one of these situations, there's a simple exercise

01:25:25.900 I like to do, which is simply to, you know, and people like doing this in different directions.

01:25:31.020 But yeah, just imagine the imagine it swapped around the other way.

01:25:35.300 Imagine you swapped the aggressors and the people defending themselves in this situation.

01:25:40.700 You would see just how nasty the rhetoric is and who the aggressor is.

01:25:47.000 And it would just be plainer for people to see what the problem is here.

01:25:52.840 And I don't think that American society wants to go back to the way things were in, you know,

01:25:58.200 reverse things a hundred years and go back to how things were in 1922. 0.99

01:26:02.920 So in 2022, let's not be playing these stupid games again. 0.99

01:26:07.420 The best way to win is to simply not play. 1.00

01:26:10.180 Arizona State University is a state university.

01:26:14.020 It's a public university.

01:26:15.560 And it is unlawful to have a center that excludes one race.

01:26:20.340 You cannot have that.

01:26:21.420 That is not OK.

01:26:22.540 So whether whiteness is a culture or not, I have no idea.

01:26:25.980 I don't waste my time thinking about those things.

01:26:27.920 But I do know it's unlawful for any group to tell another racial group they may not enter

01:26:33.700 because of their skin color.

01:26:35.080 That's not the way it works here in America.

01:26:38.340 Thank God.

01:26:39.600 OK, so speaking of dueling, whatever measures on the woke scale, we talked about that earlier

01:26:46.940 and I mentioned Dave Chappelle.

01:26:48.360 There was news about Dave Chappelle.

01:26:49.940 I'd love to ask you about this.

01:26:51.220 This is insane to me.

01:26:52.240 So Patton Oswalt is a comedian who is also an actor and he's kind of an activist, too.

01:27:00.280 He's a left-wing activist.

01:27:01.960 And he's been, I guess, friends with Dave Chappelle for a very long time.

01:27:05.420 I didn't know any of this.

01:27:07.300 But he was with Dave Chappelle and he posted a picture of the two of them on Twitter and

01:27:13.720 Instagram from New Year's Eve and celebrated his friendship with Dave Chappelle, one of the

01:27:18.180 most successful people in the world, right, and most beloved, not in all circles.

01:27:22.860 I understand because of his trans comments. 0.99

01:27:24.760 But Patton Oswalt does this.

01:27:27.260 And he has now got his tail between his legs, apologizing deeply, I guess, sincerely for having

01:27:37.360 nerve to post a picture of himself with his friend of some 34 years.

01:27:42.840 I think that's what he said.

01:27:44.120 30 plus years.

01:27:45.100 He's embarrassed that he did it.

01:27:47.960 And let me give you just a couple of phrases from his long now apology.

01:27:52.560 OK, so first he posts he they both had finished comedy sets in Seattle and Chappelle invited

01:28:00.200 him over to do a set at Seattle at Chappelle's place.

01:28:03.240 He said, great.

01:28:04.560 He says, I ended the year with a real friend and a deep laugh.

01:28:07.700 Can't ask for much more.

01:28:08.820 Very nice.

01:28:09.300 And then came the backlash, right, against him for daring to do that with just to post

01:28:15.180 a nice picture of him with Dave Chappelle.

01:28:17.140 34 years.

01:28:18.020 We've been friends, by the way.

01:28:19.140 He does agree.

01:28:20.240 Then he says he's done lots of things.

01:28:23.160 He's refocused, refined ideas a lot.

01:28:26.440 But we also disagree 100 percent about transgender rights and representation.

01:28:31.320 I support trans people rights.

01:28:32.740 Anyone's rights to live safely in the world is their fullest selves.

01:28:35.540 For all these things he's helped me evolve on, I'll always disagree with where he stands

01:28:40.400 now on transgender issues.

01:28:41.880 But I also don't believe a seeker like him has done evolving learning. 1.00

01:28:45.980 So basically, Dave Chappelle is a moron who just needs to evolve to Patton Oswalt's position 0.99

01:28:50.700 on trans people, you know, in order for him to be a fully formed human, I guess. 0.99

01:28:56.000 He goes on to say, I've also been carrying a lot of guilt about friends I've cut off, some

01:29:01.580 of who had views with which I couldn't agree.

01:29:03.700 And he says, sometimes I wonder, did did my cutting them off make them dig their heels

01:29:09.280 in deeper, fuel their ignorance with a nitro boost of resentment and spite? 1.00

01:29:14.860 You see, if you if you lose access to Patton Oswalt, Zuby, you become an even bigger moron. 1.00

01:29:20.600 You become even dumber because you no longer have access to his enlightened ideas. 0.99

01:29:25.480 He goes on. 0.99

01:29:26.500 I'm an LGBTQ ally.

01:29:28.620 I am a loyal friend.

01:29:31.340 Au contraire.

01:29:32.180 Then he says, there's friction in those traits that I need to reconcile myself and not let

01:29:39.140 feel that not let it cause feelings of betrayal in anyone else.

01:29:45.320 And I am sorry, truly sorry, wrapping up here that I did not consider the hurt this would

01:29:51.640 cause or the depth of that hurt.

01:29:55.120 You, you, what do you make of it?

01:30:00.200 What a performance.

01:30:01.460 Amazing.

01:30:02.540 Brilliant.

01:30:03.080 Bravo.

01:30:03.960 Look, I don't like to, I don't like to talk about individuals, let alone individuals.

01:30:07.880 I do not personally know, but this is super lame.

01:30:11.220 It's ultra lame. 0.95

01:30:13.020 It's cowardly. 0.98

01:30:14.020 And I have no respect for it.

01:30:16.600 That's, uh, that's, that's, that's really what I can say.

01:30:20.980 I mean, and, and it's also, it's also doing his friend, his supposed friend of 34 years

01:30:27.380 dirty as well, because he's essentially framing by trying to frame himself as this, uh, virtuous

01:30:32.460 enlightened person.

01:30:33.440 He's essentially also throwing Chappelle under the bus, um, as you know, not being up to

01:30:39.340 his level and, you know, essentially being a bad guy, even though you're claiming to

01:30:42.360 be friends.

01:30:42.900 So I think it's dirty.

01:30:44.620 Um, I think it's dishonest.

01:30:46.080 I think it's weak. 0.97

01:30:46.880 I think it's cowardly. 0.98

01:30:47.860 I think it's just lame. 0.86

01:30:48.820 It's super lame.

01:30:50.020 It's where we are now though, isn't it?

01:30:51.660 Where it's not enough.

01:30:53.220 You can't used to be able to say, oh, we have disagreements, you know, like whatever

01:30:56.460 Dems, Republicans, even on social issues, we have, we have different way of looking at

01:31:00.400 the world, it hasn't always been this vicious, but we have had meaningful debates on things

01:31:06.700 like affirmative action, right?

01:31:08.280 Like that's just take one.

01:31:09.420 That's a racial issue that you could have really strong feelings on.

01:31:12.500 And you could have used that 10, 15 years ago to say, you're a racist.

01:31:15.860 If you're not in support of it, that's not really where we went.

01:31:18.360 Yes.

01:31:18.580 Sometimes, but not like today.

01:31:20.360 And so now it's not enough.

01:31:22.560 Like you can't just say, I don't agree with Dave on everything. 0.59

01:31:25.440 I wouldn't even feel the need to say that just, Hey, here's me and my butt having a great

01:31:28.960 time, but it's not even enough for him to say, we disagree on some things, but this

01:31:34.100 is my pal of 34 years, a lot of respect for his success and what he's done.

01:31:37.360 No, you have to acknowledge he's bad.

01:31:40.060 The depth of the hurt, you even acknowledging him as a human, as a friend has caused many,

01:31:44.880 many people and deeply apologize, right?

01:31:47.000 This is, it's not just about Patton.

01:31:48.500 It's, this is the playbook.

01:31:49.780 We've seen it at so many Hollywood celebrities and beyond sports figures, team owners, corporate 0.99

01:31:56.700 executives, it's pathetic to me. 0.98

01:31:59.420 It's pathetic that so many people feel the need to do this. 0.99

01:32:02.840 Yes. 1.00

01:32:03.020 It's absolutely pathetic. 1.00

01:32:04.440 It's absolutely pathetic. 1.00

01:32:06.440 And it's a big part of the problem. 1.00

01:32:08.620 As I always come back to the point of cowardice, cowardice is the problem.

01:32:14.560 People not standing up for themselves.

01:32:16.340 People not standing up for their truth.

01:32:17.740 People not standing up for their employees.

01:32:20.240 People not standing up for their friends.

01:32:22.840 People being unwilling to draw a line.

01:32:25.560 Everyone always trying to appease the most offended person out there.

01:32:30.680 And it's just, it's just lame.

01:32:33.520 And it also doesn't work. 0.95

01:32:34.640 It's also a really bad strategy because these people are like piranhas.

01:32:40.280 When you, when they see a little bit of blood in the water, then they're going to go even

01:32:44.400 harder.

01:32:45.040 If you genuinely hurt somebody and you feel bad about it, the normal thing and the right

01:32:51.540 thing and the moral thing to do is to apologize to that individual.

01:32:56.920 If you haven't done anything wrong, or even if you had the, these public groveling apologies

01:33:04.400 with these huge, long diatribes, it's all performative.

01:33:08.180 It's all performative. 0.99

01:33:09.100 And, um, it's just ridiculous. 0.99

01:33:11.740 It's ridiculous. 0.99

01:33:12.480 And I can't respect any celebrity who does this. 0.98

01:33:15.820 I can't respect any individual who does this.

01:33:18.180 It's been going on for years.

01:33:20.240 Um, and it's just lame.

01:33:23.240 Honestly, it's lame.

01:33:23.880 And every time it happens, it emboldens the mob to go after more and more people.

01:33:27.680 That's right.

01:33:28.040 It appeases no one.

01:33:29.100 And in this situation, it was a personal betrayal of, of a friend, which is, which makes it extra

01:33:35.640 wrong.

01:33:36.580 Zuby, such a pleasure.

01:33:38.420 Thank you so much for being here.

01:33:39.640 How can people get your music?

01:33:41.660 Sure thing.

01:33:42.240 So my latest album word of Zuby is out right now on all digital platforms.

01:33:47.000 You can get that on iTunes, Apple music, Spotify, or wherever else you get your music from.

01:33:52.360 Just search my name, Zuby, Z-U-B-Y.

01:33:54.700 Um, you can also get the album.

01:33:56.100 If you want a physical copy, I've got the vinyl coming out later this year.

01:33:59.120 That's available at teamzuby.com.

01:34:01.760 And you can find me on all social media at Zuby music.

01:34:04.740 Z-U-B-Y music. 1.00

01:34:05.800 I, I heard that, uh, last year was the first time in years.

01:34:08.320 Vinyl has outsold CDs.

01:34:10.800 So we're going back.

01:34:11.740 I like that.

01:34:12.660 Let's hope we go back in some other ways too, uh, to like the days when we used to like

01:34:16.180 each other and see each other with grace and maybe not rose colored glasses, but at least

01:34:20.360 kind, kind, forgiving, graceful glasses.

01:34:23.640 Zuby, all the best.

01:34:25.300 Thank you, Megan.

01:34:25.840 Don't forget to tune in tomorrow.

01:34:27.100 We've got Senator Rand Paul and Josh Rogan back to talk COVID.

01:34:31.420 Don't miss it.

01:34:32.080 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:34:35.720 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - January 04, 2022

Zuby on COVID Doom Addiction, the Harms of Closing Schools, and How to Fight Back ｜ Ep. 233

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