The Megyn Kelly Show - February 04, 2022


Zucker Advising Cuomo, Olympics Propaganda, and Cancel Culture, with Tatiana Siegel, Allison Williams, Ethan Strauss, and Akaash Singh ｜ Ep. 255


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 35 minutes

Words per minute

193.1599

Word count

18,397

Sentence count

1,366

Harmful content

Misogyny

57

sentences flagged

Hate speech

46

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Rolling Stone's Tatiana Siegel and The New York Times' Maggie Haberman join host Megyn Kelly to discuss the new details surrounding Jeff Zucker and Alison Gollast's affair, and why it was so hard for her to get a promotion.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
00:00:11.920 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.
00:00:15.660 Wow, do we have some news for you.
00:00:17.900 In just a minute, the Olympics are underway in China and NBC is struggling to balance covering the humanitarian atrocities with ice skating results.
00:00:25.320 So fun.
00:00:26.360 We'll get to that later with two great guests.
00:00:28.380 But first, new bombshells continuing to be uncovered into the real reason CNN's president, Jeff Zucker, resigned from CNN before he could be fired.
00:00:38.540 We knew that it couldn't just be about the affair he was having with a subordinate that pretty much everyone in media knew about for years.
00:00:44.900 And now some more color to the real reasons is coming out.
00:00:49.260 Remember Andrew Cuomo's infamous interviews on CNN with his brother at the height of the pandemic?
00:00:53.700 Well, it turns out Zucker and his girlfriend, Alison Gollast, an executive vice president of CNN, were not only personally booking Andrew Cuomo's appearances,
00:01:03.360 they were coaching the governor on his messaging as well.
00:01:07.720 And as for those claims that the relationship between the two of them only began during covid, well, my next guest has a new report out now saying that is in the words of her sources.
00:01:18.440 And they, quote, total bullshit.
00:01:21.780 Joining me now, the reporter who has uncovered these new details, Tatiana Siegel, editor at large at The Ankler and senior writer at Rolling Stone.
00:01:30.880 Tatiana, thanks so much for being here.
00:01:32.080 Thanks for having me.
00:01:34.720 OK, so let's start with that.
00:01:37.040 The piece opens up with the the claim by both Jeff Zucker and Alison Gollast that the relationship only developed during covid, quote, recently.
00:01:47.500 Or Jeff Zucker said it, quote, evolved in recent years.
00:01:52.120 And your sources are telling you what?
00:01:54.640 Total bullshit.
00:01:55.700 If I'm allowed to swear on your show.
00:01:57.720 So, yeah, I think that was met with a, at least according to my sources, with a resounding like, who are they kidding?
00:02:11.500 And and you are reporting that the relationship actually began in 1996.
00:02:16.360 Yes, back at she was a trainee in the communications pool at NBC, and he was the executive producer of the Today Show back in the Matt Lauer era.
00:02:34.040 And she leapfrogged very quickly within a year to the top PR position at on that show.
00:02:43.320 So within one year, she went from trainee to senior publicist for the Today Show.
00:02:49.480 Yeah, it happens all the time, Megan.
00:02:51.460 Sure.
00:02:52.100 That's really easy to do.
00:02:53.580 And she must have been very young then.
00:02:55.180 I mean, in 1996, I was 25 and I think I'm older than she is.
00:02:58.700 So she must have been in her young 20s.
00:03:01.540 Yeah, that sounds about right.
00:03:04.300 OK, so how is your sourcing not asking you to reveal your sources, but how is your sourcing on this notion that they began an affair back then?
00:03:11.820 Um, without being too revealing, um, it was something it wasn't just like an open secret.
00:03:21.280 It was known by people because they interacted with them socially.
00:03:27.080 Um, and it was, you know, like, obviously, there's there's been some criticism like, well, how does anyone really know?
00:03:35.600 And yes, there is no sex tape that has emerged, um, that I know of, but, um, yeah, there, there, you know, it was known.
00:03:45.200 OK, so 1996.
00:03:47.920 So, I mean, that would obviously put the lie to this claim that it just just happened.
00:03:51.400 And, of course, she moved into his building on Fifth Avenue where her apartment, according to listings I saw, she bought it for over six million dollars.
00:04:01.200 Pretty, pretty hefty apartment for somebody who's working in PR.
00:04:04.380 I don't know what her family situation was, but she moved literally right above him.
00:04:08.440 And there she lived with her family for years, right above Jeff Zucker.
00:04:12.880 So then she goes after he leaves the Today Show.
00:04:16.440 Actually, before we leave NBC, how many times do you know was she promoted under Zucker?
00:04:21.720 Because he had moved up the ranks at NBC while she was there.
00:04:24.160 For nearly a decade, they worked together there.
00:04:26.220 So how many times did she move up, move up the ladder? 0.95
00:04:28.080 Uh, multiple times.
00:04:30.720 I can't give you an exact number, but, um, you know, she definitely kept adding oversight, uh, of different, um, news, new shows.
00:04:41.020 And, you know, eventually was overseeing all of NBC news.
00:04:45.000 And then, um, then it became NBC itself and became his chief spokesperson.
00:04:50.580 And so she was during that time for at least a portion of it, was he in charge of her promotion, advancement, et cetera?
00:04:59.180 Yeah.
00:04:59.440 And compensation, um, you know, I think that's where some people are like, oh, it's consenting adults.
00:05:05.360 Who cares?
00:05:06.040 But, uh, you know, this is somebody who's overseeing your, how much you're getting paid.
00:05:12.660 And, uh, it definitely has an eroding effect on the morale of any news organization and any, any workplace.
00:05:22.380 It can be alleged as corporate theft.
00:05:24.700 I mean, if you're paying her raises that she doesn't necessarily deserve because you're sleeping with her, it's basically asking the company to fund your affair, to keep it, to keep your affair going, keep your affair partner happy.
00:05:35.520 And we've seen executives get in trouble for that in, in other circumstances.
00:05:40.080 Um, okay.
00:05:40.740 And I should mention they deny this, right?
00:05:42.220 They, they, they didn't respond to your reporting specifically, but of course they are saying it was just a COVID born romance.
00:05:48.420 Everything was, all ethical lapses are apparently excusable during COVID, uh, Tatiana, just in case you didn't know, um, didn't get the memo.
00:05:54.960 Actually, he did respond.
00:05:57.360 Um, she didn't, but, uh, he responded with, um, you know, something that actually did not deny the timeline that I presented and, um, I can read you his exact, um, uh, let me find it.
00:06:11.780 Um, um, all right, uh, let's see.
00:06:17.040 Jeff resigned due to an undisclosed personal relationship.
00:06:20.960 Warner media confirmed that it considers the matter of his resignation closed, which does not, you know, uh,
00:06:28.740 doesn't refute anything.
00:06:30.420 No, no, it doesn't.
00:06:31.860 And, um, so we have all we have of them and their version of their romance is the timeline that they created when they gave their two statements in the memo he gave on Wednesday.
00:06:46.380 So, so why do you believe they were so, cause then she went, he left, he got sort of pushed out of NBC and he wound up working for Katie Couric for a while on her daytime talk show and then ultimately landed at CNN.
00:06:58.680 And she, during that period for some portion of work for Andrew Cuomo as his, yeah, about six months.
00:07:05.460 Yeah.
00:07:05.640 Which will become relevant later.
00:07:07.280 And then Jeff hires her at CNN.
00:07:10.300 Uh, one of the first hires he makes when he goes over there and there they've been for another decade.
00:07:15.540 So why do you think before we move on, they chose to say this began only during COVID?
00:07:22.120 Honestly, it is the biggest head scratcher of all.
00:07:26.260 They could have established no timeline and, you know, just said, we have been engaged in a consensual affair and didn't report it.
00:07:35.760 But the establishing of the timeline to me is, you know, inexplicable.
00:07:41.900 I think there are clues in your reporting, uh, which I've been thinking about because you're, you're reporting is a bombshell and it's got more details.
00:07:48.300 And I, I've seen any place else because you report in there that the company, at least at some point came to them and asked them previous to the Chris Cuomo allegations and dust up.
00:08:00.060 Are you two having an affair?
00:08:02.280 And they denied it, right?
00:08:04.520 They denied it.
00:08:06.040 Denied it repeatedly.
00:08:07.160 And I can tell you personally, as a reporter who has worked on this story, that I began my journey, uh, following their affair back in 2020, long before Chris Cuomo ever, um, you know, had, was fired and had his issues.
00:08:25.500 So I was looking into it at the time of, uh, there was a corporate restructuring at WarnerMedia.
00:08:32.620 And at the time there was a new CEO, Jason Kalar, and he, uh, moved Alison out from under Jeff, um, in the corporate, uh, in the reporting structure.
00:08:45.680 And I knew I, I immediately called, uh, because I was, my sourcing had said that, you know, it, it was possibly to do with the fact that everyone knew they were in a relationship.
00:08:59.500 It had been investigated prior.
00:09:01.420 So I asked and I was referred to Alison herself.
00:09:05.640 So, which I thought was a very, um, you know, awkward, um, and also Jeff was in charge of human resources.
00:09:14.580 So, you know, like it just was a completely dysfunctional and awkward type of situation to, okay, let me go ask the, the two people who are involved in this.
00:09:27.180 Mm, that's actually really interesting.
00:09:29.160 As I understand it, over at ABC, their human resources department doesn't report to the CEO of news.
00:09:36.840 There's an, there's another executive to whom they report.
00:09:40.140 And that's smart.
00:09:41.000 If that's how they're doing it, that, that, that, that's what happened at Fox.
00:09:44.420 Roger was the CEO.
00:09:46.860 No one who was harassed by Roger was going to report him to HR, which he controlled, right?
00:09:53.960 And so it's not that anybody's alleging he was harassing Alison Gullist, but if you worked with Alison Gullist and you knew these two were rumored to be having an affair and you wanted to go say to the HR, hey, I kind of feel like I've been passed over, even though I'm the worthy candidate.
00:10:08.820 You wouldn't do it because he was effectively overseeing and running HR.
00:10:14.320 Exactly.
00:10:15.100 And that was part of the restructuring is that he wouldn't be part of the, he wouldn't be overseeing HR.
00:10:21.720 And at the time he was only given 24 hours notice and he was livid, according to multiple sources at the time.
00:10:31.820 So at the same time, there was also a number of high profile CEOs in America who, or, you know, in the corporate world who are going down for the exact same type of thing, a consensual affair with an underling.
00:10:45.820 So I, you know, that's like people will say consensual, consensual, but it's still something that at the time was leading to people being immediately dismissed.
00:10:56.680 I think in the case of McDonald's, you know, no severance.
00:11:01.180 So I, I had no issue whatsoever with pursuing this story.
00:11:06.340 Yeah.
00:11:06.540 And by the way, at the time you were doing that on CNN's website, as of 2019, there was a posting that read in part,
00:11:14.660 um, in today's corporate world, especially in the wake of me too, boards are on high alert for anything that poses a reputational or financial risk to the company.
00:11:22.540 Being in a relationship with the boss will make others at the company suspect that favoritism is at play and that will undercut the employee's professional accomplishments and reputation.
00:11:32.560 OK, right.
00:11:34.420 OK, so as I said the other day, clearly not directly approved by Jeff Zucker or Alison Gullist.
00:11:39.820 So the, but back to your reporting.
00:11:41.540 So you have it that they were asked by Warner Media, are you two having an affair?
00:11:48.260 This is prior to Chris Cuomo even being fired.
00:11:50.580 There was no, nothing.
00:11:51.700 This is a long time prior and they denied it, which is yet another reason why they would have a motivation to lie about when this affair began.
00:12:00.860 Because it's one thing to look at your employer, say, and say, all right, I'm having a consensual affair with another with a staffer.
00:12:07.520 It's another to say, I lied to you, possibly repeatedly about it when you ask, because that would be immediate grounds for termination.
00:12:16.460 Correct.
00:12:17.380 However, even in my reporting, I have that they were asked during COVID and prior to Chris's firing.
00:12:28.260 Yes.
00:12:29.480 So but and so they had even then, if they said no, then they lied.
00:12:34.320 Right.
00:12:34.580 So it's like, I don't know.
00:12:35.540 I think there's a reason they're pushing the timeline specifically to COVID.
00:12:39.020 It's one of the oddest things about their statements, because if it's not true, there's no reason to mention it.
00:12:44.400 You're just digging a deeper hole.
00:12:45.780 But if it's not true and you're already on record with your employer once, twice or more saying no, no, no, no, no.
00:12:52.140 And that time period at all was pre-COVID, then it sort of is your way out.
00:12:58.580 You're thinking, OK, those denials were pre-COVID.
00:13:02.220 I'm going to say it happened after COVID and try to draw the timeline a bit later.
00:13:06.680 This is speculation.
00:13:07.500 But your reporting is that it absolutely began prior to COVID and that their statements are a lie.
00:13:14.060 Yeah.
00:13:14.400 Two decades before COVID.
00:13:16.820 Jesus.
00:13:17.600 It's amazing that it remained a secret sort of for so long.
00:13:22.100 OK, so now there's an investigation.
00:13:23.520 So now we get to Chris Cuomo and Chris Cuomo buddies up with his brother.
00:13:29.780 He starts he violates the CNN policy with Jeff Zucker's blessing and puts his brother Andrew on the air when Andrew's becoming a star doing his daily press conferences during COVID.
00:13:41.080 And this piece of your reporting is probably the most important piece.
00:13:44.880 I mean, it's like all well and good.
00:13:46.200 People have affairs, whatever.
00:13:47.340 It was inappropriate.
00:13:48.520 But this really cuts to what's going on here.
00:13:50.880 Um, what you've shown is that you're reporting that Jeff Zucker and Allison Gullis were far more involved in booking Andrew Cuomo, massaging Andrew Cuomo and helping Andrew Cuomo than people knew.
00:14:05.240 Yes, yes.
00:14:06.560 And and so if you have a problem internally with what Chris Cuomo did, you're going to have to also have a problem with what Jeff and Allison did, because it's essentially the same.
00:14:18.680 You are, as a so-called impartial news network, doing something to, you know, benefit, help a politician, which is, you know, not kosher.
00:14:32.640 It's not kosher if it's at Fox.
00:14:34.260 It's not kosher if it's at CNN, wherever.
00:14:36.860 It's like this is this is exactly what news organizations are not supposed to do, no matter how great the ratings are.
00:14:44.220 Right.
00:14:45.660 So they were what specifically were they doing, according to your sources?
00:14:50.500 Creating talking points for Governor Cuomo as he sparred daily with President Trump over covid messaging.
00:14:59.220 At the time, it was like that back and forth of Trump was saying whatever he was saying that New York was doing wrong.
00:15:06.180 And Cuomo was like, no, we're doing everything great.
00:15:09.480 And also at the time, it was all exclusive on CNN.
00:15:13.560 You were not you were not seeing Andrew Cuomo appear on MSNBC or Fox News or anything else.
00:15:21.480 Right. Well, that's that's important because I can add to this today because I've been on the phone all morning trying to shore up a couple of things.
00:15:27.680 And what I'm told is that the reason Andrew Cuomo was having the pressers at eleven thirty in the morning is because that was best for CNN schedule.
00:15:36.800 And they Jeff Zucker and Allison Gallist had helped had coordinated with him to arrange it to had coached him on what to say, had given him one liners and had actually made very clear to him if he went on another show or another network, that was going to be very bad for him.
00:15:52.560 It was going to be very bad for CNN was going to be bad for Chris Cuomo.
00:15:56.760 And to me, as a lawyer, that raises potential anti-competitive concerns that might become relevant in a merger, Tatiana, that might if that were to be released and unearthed, it wouldn't look particularly good in the context of a merger in which CNN is trying to become even bigger and even more powerful.
00:16:15.680 Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, these are the kinds of things that right before a merger, the companies have to look very deeply into what, you know, conflicts of interest, any of these type of things.
00:16:33.840 So, yeah, I see it as like it's a Pandora's box that has been opened.
00:16:39.160 Right. And it's one thing to have Chris Cuomo embarrassed as having helped his brother and his talk to his brother's staff.
00:16:45.860 But it's quite another when you're Jeff Zucker and Allison Gallist.
00:16:48.760 If that net's about to capture you and reveal all the all the help you gave to Governor Cuomo, all the interactions you had with his staff over and over and over,
00:16:59.440 the very thing you fired this guy for and acted in like you were indignant about you yourself were doing for months.
00:17:08.960 And why in the name of ratings, in the name of making Andrew Cuomo a star, they were talking about replacing Joe Biden on the presidential ticket with this guy for a while.
00:17:19.360 And CNN was there helping it happen.
00:17:21.540 Absolutely. Yes. And, you know, lots of talk about Andrew Cuomo's political future, sort of like being teased during a CNN broadcast like, well, this, you know, people are really would love to see him be president of the United States.
00:17:37.280 Mm hmm. So so the whole thing looks orchestrated.
00:17:40.840 These two are behind the scenes trying to secure his bookings, trying to make sure he goes no place else, telling him when to hold a presser, how to hold the presser, how to respond to Trump.
00:17:48.720 Here's some good one liners for you that'll make you look good.
00:17:52.420 Oh, and then we're going to break company policy to put you on CNN, sit you with your brother, who we all know will not ask you any tough questions.
00:18:00.160 And indeed, he did not ask any and make you a star.
00:18:06.200 So that's it. The whole thing is a creation.
00:18:09.560 You know, Jeff Zucker helped create Trump with The Apprentice, and then he did it again with Andrew Cuomo and apparently just didn't want to be exposed.
00:18:18.720 As having done that.
00:18:20.840 Yeah. And I think that's why Jeff Zucker did not want Chris Cuomo to be fired when he was.
00:18:26.560 And my sourcing says he pushed back, but he lost that battle.
00:18:31.140 And of course, he's Jeff Zucker.
00:18:33.200 Yes. And Jeff knew what would possibly come out of any really close look at Chris's situation.
00:18:40.320 And once you have an investigation looking into Chris's situation, you know, hold your breath, Jeff and Allison, because what will emerge is not going to be that dissimilar to what what you what has been accused of with Chris.
00:18:56.160 Right. Right. The The New York Post, I have to say that the editorial board, I think it was yesterday, had a piece that kind of nailed it.
00:19:03.620 And they were talking. Obviously, they don't like the Cuomo's and they don't really love CNN.
00:19:07.680 It's a Rupert Murdoch owned publication. But they did have an interesting angle into the story.
00:19:13.500 And this is what they wrote. Jeff Zucker's out at CNN for failing to disclose a consensual relationship with a subordinate, which means his crimes against journalism and the network's viewers will get swept under the rug.
00:19:25.200 Above all, his equally consensual but far less professional relations with now disgraced but then Governor Andrew Cuomo, a seething nest of conflicts of interest.
00:19:35.300 They go on to describe it, talking about how that crime, quote unquote crime, rehabilitated a politician who had signed the order putting, for example, COVID positive patients into nursing homes.
00:19:48.340 The thing Janice Dean's been railing about that they gave him the veneer of not just credibility, but of they deified him at a time when a fair reporter would have been asking serious and skeptical questions about the policies he was enacting and why so many
00:20:05.280 New Yorkers were dying, especially elderly, vulnerable New Yorkers. And so when when that circle closes around Zucker and Gallist, they look a little less sweet, innocent, you know, like a like a less innocent, loving pair than they do a scheming, conniving, politically driven pair that's lying about their affair and about how far into Governor Andrew Cuomo's antics they really were.
00:20:33.840 Yeah. Yeah. And don't forget, she worked for him for six months. And so, you know, there there should have been some sort of, you know, healthy distance between any coverage that CNN was doing with Andrew Cuomo.
00:20:50.540 And there wasn't. And it wasn't just Chris Cuomo to blame.
00:20:54.720 Chris Cuomo is reportedly threatening to sue. Some reports say that there is a lawsuit. There isn't one yet. But the threatening if he doesn't get his 18 million dollars that is owed to him under his deal, if he were fired without cause, they claim he was fired with cause.
00:21:08.680 And this is one of his arguments. What's cause? I embarrassed the company. How about all these other people embarrass the company? They're getting their money. They were still employed when he's making the argument. There's a report today in the Daily Mail saying he has settled for nine million.
00:21:19.340 And I'm told that's not true. He hasn't yet settled. And this could get even uglier because there are people who are close to Andrew Cuomo, who are close to Chris Cuomo, who will know exactly what Jeff and Allison did, who I think the longer he twists on the vine are going to get closer and closer to coming out to the microphones.
00:21:39.660 What do you think? Yeah. And what do they have to lose? I mean, they're they should come forward and people should talk and be open because sunshine is the best disinfectant. And this is a news organization that is has a global brand and footprint. And, you know, it needs to be clear what happened here to the.
00:22:02.220 You heard about the staff meeting at CNN yesterday. They had a lot of talent standing up and saying, this is so wrong. You know, you're letting the bad guy, meaning Chris Cuomo, win.
00:22:11.700 You know, he threatened to burn the place down on his way out. Now he's doing it. You had Allison Camerata on the air saying, this feels so unfair. It's two adults, two executives in a consensual relationship. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.
00:22:25.360 What do you feel like? That was shocking. It was shocking to me, too. Shocking, shocking that somebody would say that on the air.
00:22:32.920 I mean, I I don't know how anyone can look at this and have a, you know, that sort of reaction.
00:22:42.840 But, you know, that I have talked to a lot of people within CNN who do not have that reaction.
00:22:50.200 I think that they're sort of the loudest people, the a small group, maybe a dozen people who are really, you know, this is a tragedy.
00:23:00.660 This is, you know, just so unfair to Jeff and Allison to consult consenting adults.
00:23:07.800 But most people are absolutely on board with what has happened, which is like, no, he could not continue to.
00:23:19.240 Jeff Zucker could not continue to work here having done this.
00:23:23.560 That's right. If he was coordinating with the Cuomo team to this extent, and she was, too, my reporting is that she was on the phone with his staff every day during the pandemic about Cuomo, about getting him back on CNN, about what he should say, about how things should be handled, going above and beyond the staff, screaming matches with them because she wanted access to Andrew Cuomo directly for whom she used to work and with whom she was said to still be close.
00:23:47.600 That is well beyond the behavior that is OK for an executive of the company.
00:23:54.220 And they know that. And if if on top of all of this, these two are sleeping together, lying to corporate about it, to warn her about it, and he's promoting her up the line and has all along, there is no way she should keep her job, Tatiana.
00:24:11.380 That has been sort of the biggest question mark is why she is still there.
00:24:19.060 But, you know, I guess there there still is the dynamic that she is an underling to him.
00:24:27.760 So technically, she can be seen as sort of a at least in terms of their sexual relationship, you know, a victim here.
00:24:37.380 I don't think anyone sees her as a victim. No, but the law under the law, it's not sexual harassment. 0.82
00:24:42.740 If you want it, that's just the truth. It's not sexual harassment if you want it.
00:24:46.660 And she's not alleging that she didn't want it. They've been together for 25 years. Good God.
00:24:50.500 You could have had a child and send him to college and have him off in the workforce by the time during the course of that alleged relationship.
00:24:56.980 So, yeah. But no, she's an executive of the company with her own obligations.
00:25:00.940 And like they said on the CNN website, you're not allowed to do this. And if she was promoted, she was promoted.
00:25:06.360 It's even at CNN under him. And she took that promotion without disclosing it. That's a problem.
00:25:12.320 And all of these separate and apart from her affair, these these behaviors toward the Cuomo camp, which are going to come out in more detail,
00:25:20.480 could cause major problems for CNN, for Warner, for the merger.
00:25:25.040 She's she's gone. Mark my words. That's my prediction. She's gone. I'll give you the last word.
00:25:29.340 Yeah, I mean, I plan to pursue very aggressively exactly what you're talking about.
00:25:36.220 What was what was the nature of any help they were giving to Andrew Cuomo?
00:25:42.340 Because just as a journalistic, you know, a fan of journalism and impartial journalism, that cannot be acceptable.
00:25:52.780 Yeah, we need to know more. What was the relationship between those two and Andrew?
00:25:56.100 How close was it? How intimate was it? What exactly did each one of them do?
00:26:00.640 When did they do it? Who can testify to it? That's the next step of this just disturbing story.
00:26:07.620 Tatiana, great reporting. It's been interesting. Very few people have picked up on it.
00:26:11.400 They're not retweeting it the way they did when something bad happened to Bill O'Reilly, to Roger Ailes, to Charlie Rose.
00:26:17.920 Sean Hannity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, I will say that one thing that I have noticed is my story has really been embraced by people on the far left and the far right and sort of in between.
00:26:34.340 I think it's like a very narrow mainstream sensibility that might not be completely willing to retweet it or, you know, go crazy with it.
00:26:46.940 You know, MSNBC didn't cover his resignation at all the night after it was announced.
00:26:50.680 I mean, like they didn't touch it. That's crazy. It's just leftist politics will be advanced or we will not do the story.
00:26:57.740 And, you know, of course, I lived the Roger Ailes fall firsthand. It was everywhere.
00:27:04.220 I grant you this is not that size, but it's a big, big story. And to ignore it entirely speaks to your own bias.
00:27:12.020 I applaud you and Rolling Stone for your reporting and more to come. Look forward to following up.
00:27:17.840 Thank you so much, Megan. Yeah, you bet. Tatiana Siegel.
00:27:21.540 One of the last few honest journalists out there, folks.
00:27:23.860 Up next, we're going to turn to the world of sports, something we rarely do here on the program.
00:27:28.760 This is my Achilles heel. But there's a lot of really interesting sports stories going on right now.
00:27:32.820 An update on Leah Thomas, that UPenn swimmer, as the swim team is divided openly, writing competing letters.
00:27:39.580 And there's a real question about whether Leah should be allowed to compete at the NCAA event next month. 0.99
00:27:45.640 We got the Olympics started in China. What has happened so far?
00:27:49.260 How is NBC handling that awkwardness and this massive NFL lawsuit alleging racism?
00:27:54.980 Alison Williams will be here and Ethan Strauss is back as well to talk about all of it.
00:27:58.940 Don't go away.
00:28:06.680 The Winter Olympics are officially underway in Beijing, but COVID and China's human rights abuses are largely overshadowing the game so far.
00:28:14.880 Joining me now to discuss that and many other sports headlines in the news today, two great sports journalists, Alison Williams, happy to say, is a Daily Wire contributor and former ESPN reporter.
00:28:26.260 You remember Alison. She left the company over its vaccine mandate.
00:28:30.240 She's a young woman. She's thinking about children.
00:28:32.580 She didn't want to do it and they were going to make her.
00:28:34.920 So she was like, peace out.
00:28:36.300 And our friends over at the Daily Wire hired her.
00:28:38.820 So it all worked out in the end for the better.
00:28:41.200 Also with us is Ethan Strauss, writer of the House of Strauss, a substack column.
00:28:46.680 So thank you both so much for being here.
00:28:48.440 Thanks for having us.
00:28:49.460 All right. So let's you're going to have to walk me through it because, you know, sports is my Achilles heel.
00:28:53.700 The Olympics opens up last night.
00:28:55.860 You couldn't even tell. Right.
00:28:56.920 Like I watched it and I was like, is this in China at first when I saw, you know, like the opening Mike Tirico?
00:29:03.420 I'm like, where is he? He's in this little wooden cabin.
00:29:07.120 I don't. Are we in Beijing? I don't know.
00:29:09.540 So it opened up and I guess Savannah Guthrie had a comment at the top that has some tongues wagging today as just one step too close to Chinese propaganda. 1.00
00:29:21.740 Let's hear what she said.
00:29:22.760 Like this moment is quite provocative.
00:29:26.240 It's a statement from the Chinese president Xi Jinping to choose an athlete from the Uyghur minority.
00:29:31.960 It is an in-your-face response to those Western nations, including the U.S., who have called this Chinese treatment of that group genocide and diplomatically boycotted these games.
00:29:43.060 There will be much discussion about this.
00:29:45.220 And in-your-face response, she says, to the world that's criticized China for what some have called genocide.
00:29:53.260 Well, forced labor camps.
00:29:55.320 I mean, it's not too big a leap.
00:29:57.240 Your thoughts on it.
00:29:58.060 I'll start with you, Ethan.
00:29:58.980 It is what happens when these corporations become captured by China.
00:30:04.940 In the case of NBC, their parent corporation has concerns in China, Universal Studios in China.
00:30:11.820 And I would encourage everybody to read Eric Schwartzel's book.
00:30:14.760 He's a Wall Street Journal reporter.
00:30:16.540 It's called The Red Carpet, about how this all happened.
00:30:19.600 I think the saddest aspect of it all is, if you look back to the 1990s, our big corporations gave away their independence and their sovereignty of spirit, I would say, without even firing a shot.
00:30:32.440 They were so excited about this market and willing to do anything.
00:30:36.340 And since China is top-down and they can exert that pressure, they have that leverage, you see something as obsequious and pathetic as that commentary.
00:30:46.900 I know it's easy to make China the bad guy. 0.99
00:30:49.780 They are doing a lot of bad things.
00:30:51.780 But we can't lose sight of how we have failed as a country, that we really went fully into this without any kind of worry, while assuming that the First Amendment is the only thing that protects free speech.
00:31:04.520 We're in a situation where our major corporations are reflecting Chinese propaganda back at us, and there's nothing so much that we're doing about it.
00:31:13.540 So as much as it's easy to indict China, I think that a situation like this should cause us to have a hard look at ourselves.
00:31:21.100 You know, Allison, I have to say, I would have said this is how we need to change this script.
00:31:26.420 They've chosen a member of the Uyghurs, the Muslim minority in China.
00:31:31.480 I mean, what a choice, given that it's widely reported and known that they are torturing over a million Uyghurs right now in another part of China with forced sterilization, forced labor camps.
00:31:45.580 Let me show you the satellite tape of them binding them and taking them away on buses.
00:31:51.040 And let me air a quick clip of one of the Uyghurs who's gotten out talking about what happened. 0.98
00:31:57.260 Yes, it's awkward to do over the opening ceremony.
00:31:59.220 Ceremony. Too bad you have an American audience watching this and you don't gloss over it with what some call a genocide.
00:32:07.580 And wow, that's an in your face to have a Uyghur. 1.00
00:32:10.120 I mean, what? Well, like what's next? Like, oh, there's Peng Shui.
00:32:12.540 Peng Shui is out there as the carrier, the tennis player who they basically disappeared.
00:32:18.160 Oh, it's so nice to see her. Some said she had a rough time by the Chinese government.
00:32:22.300 Like you're supposed to be a news organization. You're supposed to give it to us straight. Go ahead.
00:32:26.020 Yeah, I think that's where the disappointment lies is like journalists have lost all kind of credibility at this point.
00:32:33.360 They have time and time again shown that they are being controlled by the interests that employ them and the corporate ties that bind them.
00:32:41.800 And in this case, it's China. And it's difficult to watch on such a large scale. 0.94
00:32:46.280 And you have the juxtaposition of the celebratory time, this years of work, of accomplishment for these athletes.
00:32:52.840 And you want to celebrate them. I think that's like in our human nature to find the joy and the happiness and the celebration.
00:32:59.080 But you're juxtaposing it with genocide. And it's not what some people call genocide.
00:33:04.100 It is genocide. And it's happening. And it's real. And to act like it's anything other than that is is a crime against what's happening.
00:33:13.160 I understand there's a difficult balance for people covering these Olympics to watch because, again, of the ties that bind the corporations that employ them and the job they want to do to celebrate these Olympics.
00:33:25.280 But they have to be be honest with themselves and with the reality of what's going on in this country at this time and the human rights violations.
00:33:33.160 I think Mike Tirico did a much better job of addressing what's going on in China and the way this Olympics feels different.
00:33:40.400 And it's going to be different in every capacity. Like you said, Megan, I mean, their announcers aren't there.
00:33:45.840 They're in the NBC offices in Connecticut. So everything feels different.
00:33:50.220 The tension is real. The tension between the U.S. and China is real. And it's it's palpable when you watch it.
00:33:57.240 So to act like it's anything but that, I think, is very disingenuous on the part of Savannah Guthrie and anyone else that tries to gloss over what's happening.
00:34:04.960 It's happening. It's real. Let's document it and be honest in our coverage.
00:34:08.320 So here's how they did address it. We all mentioned Mike Tirico now. Here he is in his little cabin talking about the genocide. Listen.
00:34:15.360 The nation where COVID began has treated the pandemic differently from the rest of the world.
00:34:21.600 It's zero tolerance. COVID policy has made getting here and putting on the games incredibly challenging for everyone involved.
00:34:28.660 Everything and everyone attached to these games is facing questions.
00:34:32.300 The hosts, the guests, the IOC, the sponsors, media and athletes.
00:34:37.520 The United States government is not here. A diplomatic boycott announced this fall, joined by Canada, Great Britain and Australia, citing China's human rights record and the U.S.
00:34:47.040 government's declaration that the Chinese Communist Party is guilty of committing genocide on the weaker Muslim population in western Xinjiang region.
00:34:55.340 That's a charge that China denies.
00:34:57.600 So the U.S. government isn't here, but Team USA is with American athletes among those competing in the middle of all this debate and controversy.
00:35:04.440 I'm sorry, Ethan, but no, not good enough.
00:35:08.900 Air a report. It's not a he said, she said. It's not.
00:35:13.420 This is us kowtowing to the Chinese. We're afraid, right? 1.00
00:35:16.500 They've warned everybody. Don't say anything about us or you might get yanked from being able to coverage to cover to cover the games.
00:35:24.300 NBC is aware of that. The athletes are certainly they've been warned to within an inch of their lives that they can't say anything.
00:35:29.740 Just shut up and play sports. Nancy Pelosi doubled down on that just today. 1.00
00:35:33.020 That that's not good enough.
00:35:36.060 Yeah, the Pelosi warning to the athletes was absolutely fascinating to me.
00:35:40.540 I wondered, is that just that she's getting old and she's rambling? 0.77
00:35:43.820 Is there intentionality behind that?
00:35:46.180 Why is that?
00:35:47.500 We have it. We have it. So let me play it and then pick back up your thought. Here it is.
00:35:51.380 I would say to our athletes, you're there to compete.
00:35:59.480 Do not risk incurring the anger of the Chinese government because they are ruthless.
00:36:06.420 I know there is a temptation on the part of some to speak out while they are there.
00:36:12.520 I respect that.
00:36:14.480 But I also worry about what the Chinese government might do to their reputations, to their families.
00:36:23.260 Wait, wait. Aren't we American?
00:36:25.140 Aren't we America?
00:36:26.760 We're basically like you're kind of screwed if the Chinese get mad. 0.99
00:36:29.440 We're the United States of America.
00:36:31.400 I mean, it's so bizarre to see that warning.
00:36:35.660 You wonder what the idea behind it is.
00:36:37.660 And sometimes I do think as a country we can be addicted a little bit to high mindedness and exporting our values.
00:36:43.640 And I don't think that we have the moral authority to do that.
00:36:46.760 I don't think we have the national health to do that.
00:36:48.940 Like maybe we could do that in the 1990s.
00:36:51.240 So maybe we should look at a situation like this and condemn, obviously, what China is doing vis-a-vis the Uyghurs and human rights, but also say if you're warning American athletes in that manner, they just shouldn't be there for their own safety.
00:37:07.500 Just because of us, our own selfish concerns for our own citizens.
00:37:11.360 It doesn't make a lot of sense.
00:37:12.960 And I'll tell you what's scary about what she's saying.
00:37:16.200 It's that I don't have any guarantee that it just stops here.
00:37:20.380 I witnessed with the NBA how you had Daryl Morey, who was the general manager of the Houston Rockets.
00:37:26.380 He put out a free Hong Kong tweet.
00:37:28.840 China cut off all business with the NBA.
00:37:32.380 And I'm watching ESPN, a company that I think of as an American company, and nobody on the channel could say anything about it.
00:37:40.520 They were all frozen silent because they were worried about Disney getting punished by China.
00:37:45.140 And so you see this encroachment when Nancy Pelosi is warning everybody in that way.
00:37:50.280 It's almost like saying these are your rulers.
00:37:53.460 These are the people who have authority over you.
00:37:58.000 That is a fundamental shift.
00:38:00.140 I don't like seeing it from our, for lack of a better term, elites.
00:38:04.400 And increasingly, I think it is the issue that you see the biggest chasm between elite opinion and the public opinion in the United States.
00:38:13.040 Where's the statement?
00:38:14.320 I mean, you're Americans, so we'd like you to just play sports.
00:38:19.360 But if anybody gets in trouble, we got you.
00:38:22.760 You're an American.
00:38:24.000 And we are the United States of America.
00:38:25.600 And we will have your back.
00:38:26.580 And the Chinese will not mess with you. 1.00
00:38:28.380 Or we will pull all of our athletes from the games.
00:38:30.860 And that will be the end of that.
00:38:32.460 Like, what is this?
00:38:33.560 Like, please don't anger the mighty Chinese. 0.97
00:38:36.180 They're mean people.
00:38:37.200 I'm like, what the?
00:38:38.200 What?
00:38:39.060 Okay.
00:38:39.560 No, stand by.
00:38:39.900 I got a lot of stocks.
00:38:41.180 I got a lot of stocks I'm trading.
00:38:43.200 Don't screw it up for me, athletes.
00:38:44.700 Wait till I hit sell first.
00:38:46.660 So pathetic.
00:38:47.500 That's what it's so alarming.
00:38:48.980 I mean, there's there's so I want to squeeze in a quick break.
00:38:51.320 There's so much more to go over and then I'll come back and get your thought.
00:38:54.200 And you guys will explain what is happening in this Brian Flores lawsuit that every man
00:38:58.980 I know is talking about.
00:39:01.100 Don't go away.
00:39:01.820 And remember, you can find The Megyn Kelly Show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 111 every
00:39:07.020 weekday at noon east and the full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel,
00:39:12.080 youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly.
00:39:14.300 If you prefer an audio podcast, you can subscribe and download on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher
00:39:19.180 or wherever you get your podcast.
00:39:21.500 I always forget when you go.
00:39:24.060 Could you give me five stars?
00:39:26.180 There are some losers who will give me like a zero or a one who then leave very nasty reviews
00:39:31.100 because I do read them all.
00:39:32.360 Please be one of the kind people and give me some five stars.
00:39:35.120 I always forget to push to advocate for our show.
00:39:38.840 Then you will.
00:39:39.840 While you're there, you'll see our full archives that have more than 250 shows now, including
00:39:43.120 the first times Allison and Ethan were with us.
00:39:46.160 Episodes 186 and 189.
00:39:55.620 The National Football League facing a bombshell lawsuit from former Miami Dolphins head coach
00:40:01.080 Brian Flores.
00:40:02.460 He is accusing the league and several teams of race discrimination, a charge they vehemently
00:40:09.100 deny.
00:40:09.960 So Allison, who is Brian Flores and what is he alleging?
00:40:14.680 So Brian Flores is the former head coach of the Miami Dolphins.
00:40:17.560 He had three seasons there, finished 24 and 25 during his time, but back to back winning
00:40:21.900 seasons.
00:40:22.380 And his team played really well towards the end of last season, season winning eight of their
00:40:27.280 last nine.
00:40:27.840 So he has established head coaching success in the NFL and he got fired at the end of
00:40:33.600 the season by the Miami Dolphins.
00:40:35.160 So he's been interviewing for numerous head coaching vacancies, one of them being with the
00:40:40.260 New York Giants.
00:40:41.540 Apparently just prior to his interview with the Giants, he received a text message from
00:40:46.920 Bill Belichick, the head coach of the New England Patriots, congratulating him on getting
00:40:51.040 the job, which he hadn't even interviewed for yet.
00:40:53.660 Belichick realized he messed up and incorrectly texted Flores instead of Brian Dabble, who ultimately
00:40:59.360 was hired as the head coach for the Giants.
00:41:02.480 Very interesting timing.
00:41:03.920 It obviously upset Flores to hear that this decision had supposedly been made prior to him
00:41:08.360 even interviewing.
00:41:09.860 What's interesting in all of this is the Giants say, of course, that the decision had not
00:41:14.140 been made yet and that they did not reach the conclusion of who their head coach was going
00:41:18.780 to be until they had, in fact, interviewed Brian Flores.
00:41:21.380 The thing within the NFL you have to remember is that since 2003, there's been something
00:41:25.960 called the Rooney Rule, which basically says that every team that's hiring a head coach
00:41:30.580 has to interview a minority for the position.
00:41:34.600 It was a certainly well-intended rule.
00:41:37.240 It wanted to ensure at least the opportunity was there for black coaches within the league.
00:41:42.360 I'm not sure that it has had the results people had hoped.
00:41:46.360 And Brian Flores is saying, look, this is setting us up for what are essentially sham interviews,
00:41:50.720 he alleges that he had one with the Broncos several years ago as well.
00:41:54.800 He's also come out now with allegations against the Miami Dolphins, accusing the owner, Stephen
00:41:59.900 Ross, of asking him to tank games, encouraging him to tamper in a search for a quarterback.
00:42:05.480 So there's a lot of layers to this lawsuit.
00:42:08.620 But ultimately, at the heart of it is what Brian Flores says is a racist system within the
00:42:14.960 hiring practices of the NFL, and he wants to shed light on it.
00:42:19.600 The Rooney Rule is kind of at the heart of it, the heart of it all.
00:42:24.320 And like I said, it's a rule that's been in place for almost 20 years now.
00:42:27.880 It was modified a few years ago to further incentivize teams to hire and give opportunities
00:42:32.680 to minority candidates.
00:42:33.920 But it seems to be inherently flawed.
00:42:37.100 You know, there's only one head coach right now currently in the NFL.
00:42:39.840 That's black. 0.97
00:42:40.620 And that's Mike Tomlin at Pittsburgh.
00:42:41.900 This is a league that has 70 percent black players.
00:42:44.940 So there's certainly some numbers that point to concern within the hiring practices in the
00:42:50.800 NFL.
00:42:51.060 But I'm not sure with what Brian Flores is alleging.
00:42:56.020 You can prove that it's all based on racism.
00:42:59.000 So it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
00:43:01.600 Um, and I, I, I'm with Brian Flores and the fact that he says, you know, hearts and minds
00:43:06.480 need to change.
00:43:07.340 I, I agree with him wholeheartedly on that.
00:43:09.800 I'm not sure how, um, this lawsuit will, will impact or affect that, but I do think it's
00:43:15.600 good that it is at least opening up this conversation.
00:43:17.740 I think that can be nothing but helpful.
00:43:19.360 You know, Ethan, if, if they did, if they were giving him a sham interview, um, on the Giants
00:43:24.460 or any of these other teams, it could be for any number of reasons.
00:43:28.560 It doesn't have to be because of race, right?
00:43:30.380 It could be like, you know, you got to cast a wide net.
00:43:33.540 We got to go back to the ownership and say, we interviewed five candidates and, you know,
00:43:37.200 we, we did our due diligence.
00:43:38.840 I don't see anything in his lawsuit that speaks to specifically race.
00:43:43.140 There isn't always, there isn't always like the smoking.
00:43:45.720 They'd always have a text saying, well, we don't want the black guy, you know, like that
00:43:49.480 would be a plaintiff's lawyer's dream.
00:43:50.780 Um, so he's kind of alleging it's more anecdotal than that.
00:43:54.060 And that the only reason these teams were giving him a nod was because of his skin color
00:43:59.440 and that they, the, the fix was in right from the get go.
00:44:01.900 I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he's right about that.
00:44:05.240 Now, Alison did a fantastic job at the expository. 0.99
00:44:08.380 Uh, that's why she's a professional sports broadcaster. 1.00
00:44:11.360 There's one aspect I might quibble with there when she said it was a well-intentioned rule,
00:44:17.180 the Rooney rule.
00:44:17.800 I don't know about that.
00:44:20.120 It seemed like they arrived at that rule as a consequence of getting pressure from Johnny
00:44:25.340 Cochran and other people who were noticing back in the early two thousands that they had
00:44:30.640 only one black coach and they had a dearth of black coaches as they do now.
00:44:33.880 And so it comes back to, uh, Richard Hanania's theory that wokeness, uh, is just civil rights
00:44:39.560 law that these sports organizations, they talk a big game.
00:44:44.740 They sound very virtue signally.
00:44:46.480 We might say, or assume that they've been infected by the university ethos, but something
00:44:52.420 else is happening.
00:44:53.400 I mean, when Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA started talking a few years ago
00:44:57.940 that he wanted 50% of referees to be women, it was an odd thing out of nowhere to say that
00:45:03.480 he wanted.
00:45:04.080 It didn't really make a lot of sense.
00:45:05.620 That's not even no offense to referees, a super high status job relative to the other
00:45:09.840 jobs in the NBA, but what it is I'd surmise is a reaction to how he might get sued because
00:45:16.140 the referees were nearly all male, very male culture, and you can get sued because it's,
00:45:22.800 it's disparate.
00:45:23.940 It's not proportional.
00:45:25.140 And that's what these leagues are concerned about.
00:45:27.520 That's what they're protecting themselves from.
00:45:29.200 And in the case of the Rooney rule, it is a sham.
00:45:31.940 It is ridiculous.
00:45:32.800 And just, we can have a conversation about whether that is a goal you should have to
00:45:39.580 do better, as they say, in your demography, whether that's a road to hell, that's one
00:45:44.300 conversation.
00:45:44.800 But by its own standards, the Rooney rule is a failure.
00:45:48.640 It's not resulting in a hiring election.
00:45:49.400 Victor Davis Hanson has been saying this.
00:45:51.400 Victor Davis Hanson has been making this point for a while, saying if you really want sort
00:45:55.020 of to have all these sports industries be more equitable and have more diversity, because
00:46:01.440 you really believe that diversity matters in the player ranks and the coaching ranks and
00:46:05.620 so on, then we need, we need to look at the NBA, like where we need to draft more white
00:46:10.280 guys into the NBA.
00:46:11.280 We need to draft more Asian guys, more, you know, Indian guys into the NBA.
00:46:16.280 Like if that, let's do that.
00:46:17.500 If we really want to, that's never going to, never going to happen.
00:46:20.260 Um, and there, you sort of do open up a hornet's nest by just looking at skin color, just skin 0.99
00:46:26.700 color.
00:46:27.360 Um, that doesn't mean that if there's a conspiracy to keep him out because he's black, it's legal. 0.93
00:46:31.840 There isn't that, that would, that's not going to hold up.
00:46:33.980 It's just the question of evidence.
00:46:35.160 Uh, quickly, Alison, can you just explain?
00:46:36.900 I've got, I got a break in like 40 minutes, 40 seconds, um, $100,000 to tank games.
00:46:42.320 Why would anybody want to do that?
00:46:44.240 For draft picks to get a higher draft pick.
00:46:46.620 I mean, it's insane.
00:46:48.320 Um, yeah, that's the allegation from Flores that Steven Ross, the owner of the Dolphins
00:46:52.520 offered him a hundred thousand dollars per game.
00:46:55.340 If he would lose, he clearly did not abide.
00:46:57.400 They, they, uh, did very well at the end of the season, but so it's all about getting
00:47:00.560 those draft picks.
00:47:01.260 So might as well stink worse so that we can get a better draft pick.
00:47:03.860 And he says, I refuse to do it.
00:47:05.580 Oh, fascinating.
00:47:06.320 Okay.
00:47:06.520 Much, much more to discuss.
00:47:07.460 Don't go away.
00:47:07.980 Alison and Ethan coming back after this break.
00:47:10.040 And we're going to talk about the latest on trans swimmer at UPenn, Leah Thomas.
00:47:18.320 Um, okay, before we get to Leah Thomas, let's talk about vaccines.
00:47:23.060 Um, last time you were with us, Alison, you were getting ready to, or you had just left
00:47:26.680 ESPN with a very emotional and honest video about why the vaccine didn't work for you and
00:47:32.980 you didn't want to be forced into getting it.
00:47:35.880 And we talked about how it was, I felt uncomfortable saying, why didn't you get it?
00:47:39.200 And then you had to answer by your personal medical.
00:47:40.820 It's like, it's none of my business.
00:47:43.100 Um, well, Shaq is apparently on board with that same line of thinking.
00:47:48.140 He has actually spoken out saying people should not be forced to get the vaccine.
00:47:52.180 Uh, here is, here's a bit of that.
00:47:54.900 Listen, look, I encourage everybody to be safe and take care of your family.
00:47:59.220 I do, but it's still some people that don't want to take it and you shouldn't have to be
00:48:03.700 forced to take something that you don't want.
00:48:05.860 So I don't think people are being forced to take.
00:48:08.440 Well, there are some there are.
00:48:09.700 I mean, listen, we have a mandate at CBS.
00:48:11.500 That's forced.
00:48:12.180 We have a mandate at CBS.
00:48:13.220 But my, but my point is forced, but where I wholeheartedly.
00:48:16.900 That's forced.
00:48:17.780 No, it's not forced.
00:48:18.840 It is forced because if the man don't take it, the man will get fired.
00:48:22.820 It's a good point.
00:48:24.600 Right.
00:48:25.040 And she went on to say, um, that, uh, this is Nichelle Turner, uh, went on to say,
00:48:31.660 no, I wholeheartedly disagree.
00:48:34.040 You're not just affecting yourself.
00:48:35.280 You're putting the public at risk and it's a public health issue.
00:48:38.900 Allison, what do you make of it?
00:48:40.060 First of all, I think the most interesting part of that was Shaq had to preface everything
00:48:45.560 he said with, I'm probably going to get in trouble for this.
00:48:48.500 Yes.
00:48:48.820 That's where we're at, right?
00:48:50.100 Where you can't speak out against mandates without acknowledging you're probably going
00:48:54.000 to get in trouble for this, whether it be from people on social media, uh, people you work
00:48:58.620 for or whatnot.
00:48:59.360 So that to me is very concerning.
00:49:01.220 The second thing that bothers me is his co-host repeatedly says it's not forced.
00:49:05.980 Okay.
00:49:06.380 But it's coercion.
00:49:08.020 It is not a choice.
00:49:09.060 She says, it's a choice to walk out the door. 0.87
00:49:10.820 If you don't follow the rules, um, that is coercion and her, she's entitled to whatever 1.00
00:49:16.360 opinion she wants to have.
00:49:17.540 That's fine.
00:49:18.120 But it's fundamentally flawed because she turns this into a, well, if you don't get it, you're
00:49:22.740 hurting me.
00:49:23.340 But the science has proved otherwise because we all know now that vaccinated people can
00:49:27.980 get and transmit the illness.
00:49:29.680 So I am not protecting anyone else by getting the vaccine.
00:49:34.080 If I can still spread it.
00:49:35.480 So her, her whole premise and justification for the mandates is fundamentally flawed.
00:49:39.940 And I wanted to hear you still don't realize that I wanted to hear him say that I had to
00:49:44.880 tell you, I, um, I went for my annual mammogram this week, which ladies, you should all do.
00:49:50.180 Um, and, and by the way, they were saying that they had a couple of cases where women,
00:49:54.600 they found stage four breast cancer that could have been avoided if the women had gone in 0.71
00:49:58.500 for their annual mammogram during the COVID lockdowns, but they didn't, they've been scared
00:50:04.540 by the fear mongers that, you know, you shouldn't, don't go out and what they postponed it.
00:50:08.920 So just get your annual mammogram if you are 45 or up.
00:50:12.160 Um, but my doctor who I love Ethan was, and she's a New York lefty and I love talking to
00:50:17.800 her cause it's great to hear her POV and she's smart and she, she's a doctor. 0.98
00:50:21.620 So she gets, you know, she gets a fair point of view.
00:50:24.700 She gets to have a strong opinion.
00:50:26.120 And she worked in New York through the pandemic and I respect that, but she is definitely in
00:50:32.060 the, um, in the same camp as Nichelle, you know, you get the vaccine, do your part.
00:50:36.720 It's a public duty.
00:50:38.140 And why should the rest of us, you know, have to take all the measures and make all the
00:50:42.380 sacrifices and you don't have to take any.
00:50:44.660 And I kept saying to her, I get that more like in the Omega phase of this pandemic, but
00:50:52.220 like, how do you square that now with Omicron, which everyone can spread equally vaccinated
00:50:58.160 or unvaccinated.
00:50:59.060 And even this brilliant doctor just kept rounding back to do your part, do your part.
00:51:03.740 She didn't have an answer.
00:51:05.660 Yeah.
00:51:05.840 It's sloganeering.
00:51:06.820 And I wonder if the operating modality of the current regime of so much of media is just
00:51:12.240 passive aggression, obnoxious, passive aggression.
00:51:15.180 The idea of you're not forced.
00:51:17.560 You just get fired.
00:51:18.460 If you don't do it, there aren't restrictions.
00:51:20.640 You just have to put a mask on your three-year-old.
00:51:23.200 Uh, that's it.
00:51:23.980 That's, that's the only thing.
00:51:25.040 It's this denial that people have the issues with these impositions in their lives and not
00:51:31.440 really grappling with it, not really listening.
00:51:33.320 And I've written a bit about this.
00:51:35.740 I personally got the vaccine.
00:51:37.860 Um, I don't believe everything that Aaron Rodgers says about it.
00:51:41.320 I don't believe everything that Joe Rogan's guests, like Robert Malone, the doctor, and
00:51:46.000 who was involved in the invention of MNR, M RNA.
00:51:49.180 Ooh, it's hard for me to say that for some reason.
00:51:51.340 Um, I don't necessarily believe everything that they're saying, but if you ask me, why is
00:51:57.120 my contempt not aimed in that direction?
00:51:59.120 Right.
00:51:59.560 Because it seems like we're almost trained to that you're supposed to be angry, angriest
00:52:03.920 at these people.
00:52:05.140 It's because they don't want to do anything to me.
00:52:08.420 They don't want to impose any restrictions on me.
00:52:11.240 Aaron Rodgers might believe the kookiest stuff in the world, right?
00:52:14.680 He might have the worst justifications for avoiding the vaccine.
00:52:17.600 Same with Kyrie Irving.
00:52:18.720 I don't know.
00:52:19.860 But I also know that he doesn't want to keep my son in a mask in perpetuity versus the
00:52:25.620 loudest critics of these people who, I don't know.
00:52:28.760 It kind of seems like they might sign on for this forever.
00:52:31.700 So that's why I've shifted my frustration, at least to the people who are trying to impose
00:52:37.440 such mandates and impose such restrictions, um, as opposed to being angry at the people
00:52:41.980 who step out of line.
00:52:43.040 Yeah.
00:52:43.420 Good for Shaq for speaking out about it though, because it's like, he's kind of untouchable.
00:52:47.160 They, he, he can get, they can say he's in trouble all they want.
00:52:50.220 You know, he's untouchable.
00:52:51.180 So good for him for at least creating more weight on the side of diversity of opinion.
00:52:56.720 You know, people are afraid and they shouldn't be to speak out.
00:52:59.780 Um, Tom Brady got to talk about him.
00:53:03.220 You knew it was going to happen.
00:53:04.640 It happened.
00:53:05.320 And I'm not talking about the retirement.
00:53:06.580 I'm talking about the blame Giselle crowd. 0.93
00:53:08.860 Why is Giselle this?
00:53:11.000 I love that.
00:53:11.700 We are treating Tom Brady like he's some infant, right?
00:53:14.700 That he's just got to do what mama says.
00:53:17.240 He, why does she get the blame for his retirement?
00:53:20.320 I think it's crazy talk.
00:53:21.720 Your thoughts on it, Alison.
00:53:23.180 It is crazy talk, but this is what we do, right?
00:53:25.380 Like whenever athletes go through a slump or they struggle, it's like, Oh, it's the new
00:53:29.060 girlfriend.
00:53:29.560 It's the new famous relationship they have.
00:53:31.620 Um, but first of all, let me say this.
00:53:33.620 Any man who makes a career decision like this to retire or to say, keep like they better
00:53:40.400 consult their wife or they're not in a very healthy relationship.
00:53:43.120 So of course, Giselle should have a say. 1.00
00:53:45.320 This is, this is their lives.
00:53:47.440 Um, the other thing is we act like Tom Brady.
00:53:51.180 Like you said, he's an infant.
00:53:52.200 We act like he's 30 years old.
00:53:53.400 He's 44.
00:53:54.480 He was the oldest player in the NFL last year.
00:53:56.940 The oldest player to win a oldest quarterback to win a Superbowl.
00:54:00.520 So just because he looks like he's aged in reverse, it does not mean he has, um, he's
00:54:05.980 44 years old.
00:54:07.080 He has a beautiful supermodel wife and I'm sorry, but every other man in the country,
00:54:10.480 if you were married to Giselle and you didn't have to go to work anymore, you probably wouldn't
00:54:14.660 either.
00:54:15.220 And you know what, for that matter, you would do what she told you.
00:54:17.400 If she said, I want you to be at home with me all day, you'd be like, I will do it.
00:54:20.460 Thank you for the invitation to help.
00:54:23.600 I don't know.
00:54:24.240 It's kind of annoying because he's obviously going to be the one in charge of his football career,
00:54:29.940 Ethan.
00:54:30.640 I'm sure he did consult with her, but this is clearly his decision and his decision
00:54:34.400 alone.
00:54:35.840 I can't come up with any plausible reason for why a middle-aged man would want to retire
00:54:41.080 from football, uh, other than the wife.
00:54:43.480 No, it's ridiculous.
00:54:44.520 But you hear these things.
00:54:45.800 You do hear these things.
00:54:46.740 I remember when LeBron left the Miami heat, uh, there are all these rumors swirling around
00:54:50.940 that his wife wanted him out of Miami.
00:54:53.020 And in the NBA, we often hear that happy wife, happy life. 0.99
00:54:57.300 And it is part of the decision-making process, but you know, this is a good time to go out
00:55:03.540 for Tom Brady.
00:55:04.260 This isn't exactly like Yoko Ono breaking up the Beatles.
00:55:07.200 This is a pretty decent end of the story.
00:55:09.440 Yeah.
00:55:09.620 Oh yeah.
00:55:09.940 And it's not the end.
00:55:10.720 It's just the end of this particular chapter.
00:55:12.960 All right.
00:55:13.240 Let's talk about Leah Thomas because things are getting, things are getting weird there.
00:55:17.460 Um, I'm encouraged by the fact that 16, 16 of her teammates, um, came out saying, we don't
00:55:25.400 think it's fair to have her compete at the NCAA swimming championships in March.
00:55:30.660 I'm encouraged because we've heard repeatedly a couple athletes speak out to out kick or daily
00:55:36.100 mail.
00:55:36.460 They don't want to say their names.
00:55:37.620 They're all afraid and they're not saying their names even here, but at least they're
00:55:41.620 getting organized and feeling a little bit more bold about expressing their objections.
00:55:45.500 And we should hear from them.
00:55:46.500 Um, she has Leah Thomas.
00:55:48.860 This is the trans female swimmer on the team qualified for multiple events for the championship.
00:55:54.840 So right now it looks like she's going and she's poised to break all these records. 0.66
00:56:01.000 If she swims, as we expect, um, it's not entirely clear because the NCAA Ethan has been too cowardly
00:56:10.480 to actually just set its own rule and make it fair.
00:56:13.760 So it has said, we're going to defer to the governing body in each sport.
00:56:18.840 And here that would be USA swimming and USA swimming indeed did step up to the plate and
00:56:24.740 issue a new policy that establishes new eligibility criteria for trans athletes.
00:56:31.260 And here are just a couple of things.
00:56:33.000 They say to determine whether you're eligible, we're going to have a three person panel of
00:56:37.080 independent medical experts to determine whether the swimmers prior physical development
00:56:40.540 as a man gives the athlete a competitive advantage.
00:56:44.140 Yes, that's good.
00:56:45.800 So in the case of Leah Thomas, even I am assuming, even if her testosterone levels met the levels
00:56:51.360 that they required, there's a body of humans that can look and say, look at Leah Thomas. 1.00
00:56:57.840 Leah Thomas is a man who says that she's a woman, but that is the body of a man.
00:57:03.000 And Leah Thomas still has all these advantages.
00:57:05.560 Okay.
00:57:06.380 Then they say the swimmer also must show the concentration of testosterone in her blood has 0.91
00:57:11.640 been less than five.
00:57:13.020 I don't know how to say this word.
00:57:14.420 Nanimoles per liter continuously for at least 36 months.
00:57:19.180 The long and the short of it is, however, they're only phasing those new requirements in
00:57:23.620 slowly.
00:57:24.440 So it doesn't look like Leah Thomas is going to be subjected to them.
00:57:27.600 So it does look like Leah Thomas can compete. 1.00
00:57:29.660 And there are a couple of UPenn swimmers who have taken the other side saying, don't be
00:57:36.280 so transphobic.
00:57:37.100 We want her to compete. 0.92
00:57:38.180 What do you think should happen and what will happen on March 16th through 19th when this
00:57:44.040 competition takes place?
00:57:46.900 Wow.
00:57:47.740 I don't know exactly what's going to happen when the competition takes place, but I'm with
00:57:52.500 the majority, the overwhelming majority of Americans who think that a biological male should
00:57:58.440 not be competing against biological females in sport.
00:58:02.140 And the crazy thing about it, it's that asymmetry we keep seeing where things are happening in
00:58:08.440 elite institutions that the vast majority of people are against.
00:58:12.380 But yet in those institutions, it's so taboo to give voice to that.
00:58:16.800 ESPN avoided this story for weeks.
00:58:19.960 They did not want to say anything about it.
00:58:22.200 I'll kick the coverage, a lot of reporting, New York Post, Ryan Glass Spiegel wrote about
00:58:27.220 it.
00:58:27.380 He told me he was amazed at how many page views it got.
00:58:29.980 So it had so much interest.
00:58:31.540 And when you see the Gallup polling, it's almost two to one.
00:58:34.460 People think that biological males shouldn't compete against biological females in sports.
00:58:39.240 And some of these, one of these advocacy groups actually did a survey and they're expressing
00:58:43.140 disappointment that none of our arguments work on people.
00:58:46.200 When we try to persuade them that biological males should be able to compete against biological
00:58:51.720 females, it is a stumbling block. 1.00
00:58:53.820 I think it's a cultural waterloo, pardon the pun.
00:58:57.080 Even though everybody is scared of saying so in media or nearly everybody, they don't want
00:59:02.140 what happened to Chappelle to happen to them or JK Rowling.
00:59:05.260 They don't want activists to be angry at them.
00:59:07.780 I don't think the public can digest this.
00:59:10.120 I don't think that this is really going to fly.
00:59:12.080 And I think so long as the universities keep trying to advance this and push this, it's
00:59:16.920 the type of thing that can cause a preference cascade, not just in the sports culture, but
00:59:21.480 in the political culture as well of this is just too much.
00:59:24.700 This is just too crazy.
00:59:26.080 We can't have this.
00:59:27.780 That's actually a very astute thinking.
00:59:30.720 What do you think, Allison?
00:59:32.700 Yeah, I think it highlights so many issues on a lot of different levels.
00:59:36.560 And the most basic one is like, we have to stop denying that there are biological differences
00:59:41.480 between men and women and acting like it's a bad thing to acknowledge them.
00:59:45.780 And I think also we have to dismiss this notion that just because you want fairness on a competitive
00:59:51.220 playing field or in the pool does not make you transphobic.
00:59:55.100 This is not a fair situation and competitive field for these swimmers.
00:59:59.700 It's not.
01:00:00.520 And to deny that is again, to deny the biological differences between men and women.
01:00:05.040 Just to put it in context, Leah Thomas was the 462nd ranked male in the country when she
01:00:11.860 competed as a male her first three years at Penn.
01:00:14.160 Now she's number one as a female. 1.00
01:00:16.840 Okay.
01:00:17.160 So there is a huge difference there.
01:00:19.800 She set two records this year as a female competitor and she's taking away opportunities 1.00
01:00:24.480 from other females on her own team.
01:00:27.260 You can only send so many of your swimmers to the Ivy League championship meet.
01:00:31.800 So she's taking away opportunities from women who have trained and worked their entire lives 1.00
01:00:36.520 to earn these opportunities, these scholarships and this ability to compete.
01:00:40.120 And the record she's setting, they don't hold the value that they would if they were set
01:00:45.580 by biologically, biological women. 1.00
01:00:49.060 And it's an uncomfortable situation for these swimmers.
01:00:52.100 They've acknowledged that.
01:00:53.100 And why are we not listening to them and having any concern for what their experience is?
01:00:59.260 Everybody's worried about Leah's experience.
01:01:01.220 Well, what about that of her teammates and the uncomfortable situations they're putting
01:01:04.440 her in?
01:01:04.860 So I think they have to really step back and look at this as a bigger picture and ask what
01:01:11.280 it's doing, not just to the sport, but to the competitors.
01:01:14.220 And for everybody that fought so hard, Megan, for Title IX and for women to have the opportunity
01:01:20.540 to compete and participate in sports, to now have a biological male come in and take that 0.73
01:01:26.140 away, are we comfortable with that?
01:01:28.380 I mean, as feminists, as people who fought for gender equality for women in sports and
01:01:33.860 to now have it taken away because someone identifies as a female, you can support her on her journey
01:01:40.520 to transition, you can support her in her desire to express her gender, but that doesn't change
01:01:47.140 what she is biologically.
01:01:48.960 And that has an impact on the competitiveness of the sport.
01:01:52.100 And we need to recognize that if we want to have this be a fair situation.
01:01:55.940 That's what the letter with the 16 swimmers who are objecting was sent by Nancy Hogshead
01:02:01.040 Makar.
01:02:01.880 She was on our show, actually, 1984 Olympic swimming gold medalist.
01:02:05.220 And she said, we fully support Leah Thomason in her decision to affirm her gender identity
01:02:09.740 and transition from a man to a woman, right?
01:02:12.300 She's got every right to live her life authentically.
01:02:14.160 However, we also recognize that when it comes to sports competition, when it comes to sports
01:02:18.840 competition, that the biology of sex is a separate issue from someone's gender identity.
01:02:25.160 And biologically, Leah holds an unfair advantage over competition in the women's category. 1.00
01:02:29.780 That's exactly it.
01:02:30.800 It's not that people mean to disrespect her by saying, here, we see you as a man because
01:02:35.200 we have to look at biological sex. 1.00
01:02:36.700 We have to look at the sex advantages that come with being a man.
01:02:39.740 It doesn't mean we're trying to disrespect you.
01:02:42.020 And what we're trying to do is preserve is preserve respect for the biological women who 1.00
01:02:46.660 have done absolutely nothing wrong, but are about to have zero shot at winning or a record
01:02:51.560 because of this unfairness, which is going to dress unaddressed for too long. 0.95
01:02:55.780 Shame on you, Penn, for when there was a previous objection and they stand by this sending the
01:03:01.220 female swimmers to the link to on campus therapy. 1.00
01:03:05.640 Shame on you, Penn.
01:03:08.160 Shame on you.
01:03:09.080 Allison and Nathan, it's been a pleasure speaking with you.
01:03:11.400 Thank you so much for coming on.
01:03:13.240 Thanks for having us.
01:03:14.920 All right.
01:03:15.120 Coming up, we're going to finish it off with a laugh.
01:03:17.300 Comedian Akash Singh is here to talk about Rogan, COVID and much, much more.
01:03:22.460 He's got a podcast with Andrew Schultz who's been on the show and is hysterical.
01:03:26.900 And so is Akash.
01:03:28.300 And we're looking forward to that.
01:03:34.320 Joining me now is comedian and co-host of the hilarious Flagrant 2 podcast, Akash Singh.
01:03:41.120 His latest comedy special, Bring Back Apu, is out on YouTube this week.
01:03:46.280 Akash, thanks so much for being here.
01:03:48.340 Thank you for having me, Megan.
01:03:49.360 Let's put a nice disclaimer on this.
01:03:50.820 There's going to be a lot of misinformation getting spewed for the next half hour or so.
01:03:53.760 There is?
01:03:54.300 Why?
01:03:54.560 I mean, nothing a comedian says should be taken seriously.
01:03:57.580 So, you know, we're all just talking.
01:03:59.000 Let's have fun.
01:03:59.980 All right.
01:04:00.220 What's the special about?
01:04:02.220 It actually it's hopefully comes out today.
01:04:04.880 We're running a little bit behind because I really want to make it great.
01:04:07.280 And we're putting a lot of work in.
01:04:08.740 I haven't slept in days.
01:04:10.120 But the special is called Bring Back Apu.
01:04:12.760 And there is a through line kind of centered around the idea that got Apu taken off the air.
01:04:19.180 And Apu, to me, wasn't an offensive character on a TV show.
01:04:24.680 Sure, it was a white guy doing the accent.
01:04:26.480 But I also understood in the context of the 80s, there probably weren't a bunch of Indian voiceover actors.
01:04:31.220 And then Hank Azaria made this character really three dimensional and nuanced and one of the few one of the most involved people in his town.
01:04:38.620 And I think the larger issue I had with it is this kind of like currency in victimhood that we have that we've adopted.
01:04:47.180 I think a lot of people are hopping on to a well-meaning thing, which is I understand black Americans have been systemically oppressed, you know, since they got here.
01:04:56.100 But I think a lot of other cultures are trying to get the same currency and making victimhood out of stuff that's not really victimhood.
01:05:02.420 And so I think we just need to step back and take a second and say, you know what, we live in America, which is, you know, definitely one of the greatest countries in the world, if not the greatest.
01:05:11.460 We all have access to clean water, indoor plumbing, all these things that our parents didn't have if you're Indian.
01:05:16.420 And I just think we need to sit back and not try to hop onto the victimhood thing.
01:05:21.840 We're lucky to be here. We're privileged to be here.
01:05:23.920 Well, what do you make of of the the people who are of Indian descent?
01:05:29.280 Did they like where do you think they fall on the oppression scale that the leftists have created for us?
01:05:33.980 Right. Because like we you're brown, you have brown skin.
01:05:37.220 And yet I don't feel like they're really talking about you when they talk about systemic oppression against black and brown.
01:05:42.820 Frankly, they shouldn't. Frankly, my wife is sick. 1.00
01:05:45.960 She's Sikh. And she has kind of opened my eyes to that sick men who wear turbans get they deal with racism.
01:05:51.980 It's probably pretty rough. And Muslim women who wear hijabs. 1.00
01:05:55.400 Everybody else. If you're Indian, you're probably doing great. 1.00
01:05:58.280 You deal with some hurt feelings for sure. People hurt my feelings in school.
01:06:01.900 But if you expect to live a life without hurt feelings, you're not going to live a life.
01:06:05.780 Indians, I think, make twice the median income as the average American.
01:06:09.160 I think it's one hundred twenty four thousand per household.
01:06:10.840 The rest of America is making like sixty three. 0.75
01:06:13.840 They're thirty percent of the Fortune 500 CEOs.
01:06:16.360 I just don't understand how we've decided we're victims.
01:06:18.740 And it's kind of gross to me and disingenuous to create entire narratives based around us being victims in this country.
01:06:25.520 Mm hmm. And do you think like I mean, when do you think there's a contingent within the Indian community that wants to glom on with that?
01:06:32.340 Because to me, like all the Indian friends that I have are incredibly hardworking.
01:06:36.740 They don't think of themselves as victims and they don't want to be slowed down with any of that nonsense.
01:06:39.740 It's all about academic rigor for their kids and professional rigor for themselves.
01:06:45.820 Yes. Be a doctor. That's all. The only thing that disappoints my parents about me is I'm not a doctor.
01:06:50.620 But other than that, it's it's and that's what I liked about the culture we passed down for Indian Americans here.
01:06:57.620 Our parents just taught us to work hard, keep your head down and go be great.
01:07:02.380 And don't worry about the obstacles because they went through much bigger obstacles back home in India to end here.
01:07:08.080 We're we're looking at us like we're the richest kids I've ever seen in their lives.
01:07:11.200 So I do think most Indians feel that way. And that's why I wanted to put this out, because I don't think that was getting represented within mainstream.
01:07:18.460 I don't want to say mainstream media, but yeah, mainstream media wasn't really representing what I thought most Indians actually felt, which is, come on, we're let's just work hard and go be doctors.
01:07:27.320 And then marry women and make our kids doctors. 0.96
01:07:30.700 Do you feel that it's different as a Mexican-American? Because I understand you were you were misidentified as a Mexican-American for much of your youth growing up in Dallas, Texas.
01:07:38.140 You did your research, Megan. Good for you.
01:07:41.720 I thought it was funny. Like, oh, my gosh, you've been many minorities. Have you been attacked more as a Mexican or as an Indian?
01:07:47.720 How did that go? Mexican in Texas was fine. 0.91
01:07:50.100 The only thing that was just like slightly annoying is every time my principal in middle school saw me, he used to say hola, amigo.
01:07:55.580 And I always it took me a while to realize he did it every time he saw me today.
01:07:59.820 And I was like, oh, yeah, no, no, he got in no trouble.
01:08:03.540 I was just like, this is weird. And then I realized what happened.
01:08:06.960 And after 9-11, it was kind of, you know, you're in Texas.
01:08:09.760 They didn't know any nuance about things.
01:08:12.360 So I was in high school and I definitely dealt with some bullying and some issues.
01:08:15.240 But again, I don't look at that as victimhood.
01:08:17.740 I look at that as, you know, rough times.
01:08:19.880 That's it. Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:21.120 Actually, you know, one of my friends, one of my closest friends is Pakistani.
01:08:24.020 And she talks about that, too.
01:08:26.240 And help me understand how whenever there is a terrorist attack or something like that, you know, it's just you get more looks and you get more sort of the side glance and people seeming more afraid.
01:08:35.740 And this is a beautiful, amazing woman who's a mom of four kids.
01:08:39.640 It's not like she she anybody would reasonably perceive this woman is potentially a threat in any way, except maybe in a yoga studio.
01:08:45.400 But, yeah, I can understand if even she's feeling it.
01:08:48.460 And certainly a man who looks as she does would would feel the same. 0.58
01:08:52.540 Yeah. And then also with Muslims, a lot of times the names kind of give away.
01:08:56.120 You know, I have a friend named Osama and that's rough.
01:08:58.760 I don't care what year it is.
01:09:00.100 I don't care where you are.
01:09:00.880 That's rough.
01:09:01.720 So a lot of times with Muslims, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, whatever, it can be.
01:09:04.700 That is a tough one.
01:09:05.300 No, I had a friend.
01:09:06.700 I had a friend way, way back when I was a lawyer and her last name was Lawden and she had a little boy and she named him Quinn.
01:09:14.120 Quinn Lawden.
01:09:15.240 What the hell is she doing? 1.00
01:09:16.960 I don't know.
01:09:17.560 It's like, what are you doing?
01:09:19.080 Why?
01:09:19.440 This is child abuse.
01:09:22.220 Michael Layden.
01:09:25.080 Change the spelling to a nice EY.
01:09:28.720 Well, don't you ever wonder?
01:09:29.760 Sometimes I do wonder, like people with a last name like Dix or Cox.
01:09:32.940 Why?
01:09:33.760 Maybe you should change it.
01:09:34.940 I don't know.
01:09:35.700 I think I would change it.
01:09:36.340 If you're a man, it's pretty solid.
01:09:38.200 If you're a man, you name him, you know what I mean?
01:09:40.240 Like big or something.
01:09:41.820 Just get like, you know what I mean?
01:09:43.460 You can really utilize it.
01:09:44.760 If you're a woman, it's rough. 1.00
01:09:48.860 That's so funny.
01:09:50.000 Well, that's that leads me to my story.
01:09:52.020 I have to tell it, Abby.
01:09:52.760 I'm sorry.
01:09:53.160 I'm going to shame you.
01:09:54.560 So my assistant, Abby, sitting here with me and we had the situation.
01:09:58.300 I can't tell you the details because I don't want to ruin anybody's childhood beliefs.
01:10:03.320 Like it has it has to do with an elf.
01:10:05.240 OK, I'm just going to leave it at that.
01:10:06.540 And our search for an elf.
01:10:08.640 And Abby found a lovely gentleman who could help me out in my search for an elf.
01:10:13.800 And she was like, OK, I've got I've got that.
01:10:16.660 I've got the email for you right here.
01:10:17.860 He's going to he's got the answer to your problems.
01:10:19.380 I'm like, oh, great.
01:10:20.060 What's his name?
01:10:20.880 And she said, Mike Hunt.
01:10:23.120 I'm like, oh, Abby.
01:10:28.260 Oh, that's rough.
01:10:29.620 Again, that's rough.
01:10:30.520 I knew a Mike Hunt, actually, but I was too young to understand how brutal of a name that was.
01:10:34.980 Why?
01:10:35.540 Why wouldn't you change it?
01:10:36.880 That is like a classic Porky's name that is used just to abuse people.
01:10:41.620 I know, Joseph.
01:10:42.820 You know, what are people thinking?
01:10:44.540 Right.
01:10:45.040 And like heavy emphasis on the on the H.
01:10:47.760 Joseph Hunt.
01:10:49.240 You know, you'd have to choose something that didn't a first name that didn't end in an H.
01:10:52.220 Has to be like a hard H.
01:10:54.460 Yeah, 100 percent.
01:10:56.420 All right.
01:10:56.680 So we've got those problems solved.
01:10:58.160 So what when you Andrew Schultz was one of the funniest comedians we've ever talked to.
01:11:01.680 We've talked to some great ones.
01:11:02.900 He had me in hysterics.
01:11:04.540 I was crying.
01:11:05.300 I was laughing so hard.
01:11:06.280 He's the best.
01:11:06.720 What is your favorite subject to tackle?
01:11:08.420 Because I hear it's sports, but I I'm not sure if that's true.
01:11:13.600 I love sports.
01:11:14.760 Andrew does not love it as much.
01:11:16.180 And I realized, again, I grew up in Texas.
01:11:18.200 I thought everybody loves sports.
01:11:19.900 I thought if you had a Y chromosome, you love sports.
01:11:23.340 That's why I thought Leah Thomas wanted to swim. 1.00
01:11:25.460 She was just like, look, I just want to I just want to be in sports.
01:11:29.280 So whatever.
01:11:30.680 Y chromosome be damn.
01:11:31.780 Let's just swim.
01:11:32.920 That's what I thought that was about.
01:11:34.220 But apparently I'm in a fairly small minority.
01:11:37.660 Yeah, no, I don't know.
01:11:38.640 Most I think most men do love sports, right?
01:11:40.400 Like I was saying today, but so many people are talking about that Brian Flores thing and
01:11:43.800 his allegations against his team.
01:11:45.480 And did they pay him money or offer him money to tank games and so on?
01:11:48.540 I was like, who is Brian Flores?
01:11:50.300 The Miami who?
01:11:51.320 Why would he take it?
01:11:52.060 I was totally not connected to it.
01:11:53.720 Yeah.
01:11:54.100 Yeah.
01:11:54.320 I don't care about coaches drama.
01:11:56.560 I don't.
01:11:57.120 I got player drama.
01:11:58.440 That's I think men's Kardashians. 0.96
01:12:00.620 Whereas like, oh, Kyrie Irving and LeBron James didn't get along when they were in Cleveland.
01:12:04.460 I want to know that gossip.
01:12:05.620 I never have cared about what Brian Flores is doing in his life.
01:12:08.220 I couldn't care less about Brian Flores.
01:12:10.900 Well, there are certain stories that cross over, right?
01:12:14.180 Like, I don't know if that's one or not, but I do a hit once a week for this company,
01:12:18.620 this news organization called GB News, Great Britain News across the pond.
01:12:23.800 And you know what they want to talk about this week?
01:12:25.900 Whoopi Goldberg.
01:12:26.680 Like even over there, they want to talk about Whoopi Goldberg.
01:12:28.920 I mean, there's not a there's not a British presenter on television that we would spend a
01:12:32.900 week discussing over here, but they were really interested in Whoopi.
01:12:36.220 And I do think that's one of those stories that just sort of caught fire because it touches
01:12:39.300 on so many things.
01:12:41.040 And since you're somebody who sort of pokes some fun at identity politics, I did think
01:12:44.420 it was I wanted to ask you because Ben Shapiro was out there saying she culturally appropriated
01:12:50.040 Goldberg.
01:12:50.920 He was saying her real name is Karen Johnson.
01:12:54.320 And I guess she's not.
01:12:55.840 I don't know if she's Jewish or not, but he said she culturally appropriated Goldberg.
01:12:59.040 And, you know, in today's day and age, she should be canceled for that. 0.95
01:13:02.040 Yeah, no, I you know, it's funny.
01:13:03.480 The cultural appropriation comment or like a conversation.
01:13:06.860 Our parents were always so happy to get culturally appropriated.
01:13:10.100 They looked at it as acceptance.
01:13:11.560 Like if they saw, you know, black actors wearing a Saudi at the Golden Globes, they would be 1.00
01:13:16.560 like, oh, my God, that's so cool.
01:13:18.060 We've made it like, look, we're going mainstream.
01:13:20.140 So it's always funny to see the complete 180.
01:13:23.140 And I'm not saying there can't be a nuanced discussion about it, but like a complete 180 to
01:13:27.280 any cultural appropriation is horrible.
01:13:28.800 Yeah.
01:13:29.360 And hey, let Whoopi be Whoopi.
01:13:31.400 She you know, she earned the name Whoopi Goldberg. 1.00
01:13:33.260 She's been in enough movies to be Jewish, right? 0.96
01:13:35.620 Well, I'm not sure that's exactly how it works.
01:13:38.620 I didn't know it was Karen Johnson. 0.52
01:13:39.840 My EP is telling me she is not Jewish.
01:13:41.360 So it really was an appropriation.
01:13:43.720 So, yeah, no, she's now according to reports, she's threatening to quit. 1.00
01:13:46.960 She's so mad about her two week suspension.
01:13:48.920 She doesn't think it should have happened.
01:13:50.100 And, you know, I'm kind of sitting on the sidelines thinking, I don't I'm not pro punishment
01:13:55.500 to people for their free speech, but live by the sword, but die by the sword.
01:13:59.940 You know, part of me is like you created the culture in which this was even possible.
01:14:04.220 Why don't you swim in it for a little while and then get back to me on how you feel about
01:14:07.140 cancel culture and all these warriors?
01:14:09.700 Yeah, I'm a pretty moderate dude.
01:14:11.280 But one of my favorite things is watching the extreme left cannibalize themselves with
01:14:14.960 wokeness because as a comedian, all I want to do is talk my talk and say wild things.
01:14:19.740 And sometimes I will over overstep my bounds or whatever.
01:14:23.060 And in those times, there's nothing wrong with me apologizing.
01:14:25.220 That's something I've realized as I grew up.
01:14:26.860 But also, I should be allowed to keep making the jokes.
01:14:29.320 I failed.
01:14:30.160 You told me I failed.
01:14:31.140 Now, let me keep trying to make it better.
01:14:33.500 So it is funny when the group of people who cannot stand this at all are slowly realizing
01:14:38.340 none of us are perfect and every one of them is cancelable.
01:14:41.820 That's kind of funny to watch.
01:14:43.420 Do you think?
01:14:43.960 But I also.
01:14:44.940 Yeah, go ahead.
01:14:46.000 I also think Whoopi is just old and I don't mean old like she's 60 or whatever.
01:14:50.220 I mean, she's been working for 30 years.
01:14:52.840 She's rich beyond any amount of money any of us could ever dream of.
01:14:56.020 I think she's just like, I don't need this.
01:14:58.380 Suspend me.
01:14:58.880 Who cares?
01:14:59.260 I'll just quit.
01:15:00.360 I don't think she's really going to quit.
01:15:01.800 I think it's just like one of those threats.
01:15:03.200 She's not going to quit. 0.92
01:15:03.960 She loves that job. 1.00
01:15:04.800 It keeps her relevant, keeps her voice and face in the news.
01:15:07.820 And it's basically just to ABC.
01:15:11.100 I don't know just to let people know she didn't.
01:15:13.440 She wasn't pleased, but there's no way they're firing her.
01:15:15.400 There's zero chance of them firing her.
01:15:16.960 And I don't even think the heart was in this suspension.
01:15:18.880 That was just like a bone to throw to the nasty, complaining, whining, little internal 1.00
01:15:22.900 staffers.
01:15:25.400 They complain about everything.
01:15:27.860 I bet you those staffers didn't give a shit about Jews yesterday.
01:15:31.260 They couldn't care less about anti-Semitism. 0.78
01:15:33.000 But now, because it's like some rich, powerful woman that, you know, they present because 0.75
01:15:38.200 they're never going to have one fraction of her success.
01:15:39.800 They're like, yes, my God, the Jews, we have to fight for them. 0.99
01:15:43.640 I guarantee you.
01:15:44.540 But it is funny to watch a bunch of like spoiled, snot-nosed little kids basically say Whoopi
01:15:51.040 Goldberg has had an easy life and she's privileged when they have no idea that probably the shit 0.96
01:15:54.540 she dealt with as a black woman named Whoopi Goldberg being dark skinned and to still become 0.90
01:15:59.080 this legend.
01:16:00.680 And she could say, you know, she could say some stuff.
01:16:04.740 We could look at it contextually.
01:16:06.160 She was trying to make a larger point.
01:16:07.540 It was a, you know, it was a horrible way to make it, but whatever.
01:16:10.500 I thought suspension was like, let's just get this over with.
01:16:12.880 Come back in two weeks.
01:16:14.200 We we treat everything.
01:16:15.880 This comment, any every comment, like it's like, this is very serious.
01:16:20.220 This is deeply alarming.
01:16:22.100 It's like, well, she said something dumb and OK, I get it.
01:16:25.200 You know, I've listened to the case that anti-Semitic, I get the argument, but it's like
01:16:28.520 people, the all this stuff is complicated.
01:16:32.620 The Holocaust is a little less complicated.
01:16:34.740 That was pretty clear.
01:16:35.420 OK, so I agree you she stepped in it, but we're just so quick to be, you know, to cut
01:16:40.820 each other down and act holier than thou and pretend that we never could make a rhetorical
01:16:44.960 mistake.
01:16:46.300 And then we relish.
01:16:47.520 We relish when somebody who especially rich and powerful starts to fall.
01:16:51.200 Yes, I think I think how I interpreted it was she was trying to make a larger point about
01:16:56.100 how inhumanity is like the real the real cancer in the world.
01:17:00.220 And I think you can't ever compare the Holocaust to anything or say the Holocaust, you know
01:17:04.640 what I mean?
01:17:04.880 Like it was just a poor example.
01:17:06.960 But I also think people who want to cancel people, it's so funny that everybody has a
01:17:11.800 podcast and they want to cancel other podcasters because like the podcasters said something
01:17:18.560 that was offensive.
01:17:19.680 I think you speak, of course, of Mary Trump and her deadly threat to withdraw her podcast
01:17:23.800 from Spotify unless they pull Joe Rogan.
01:17:25.840 You know, Mary.
01:17:26.620 Yeah, all these people, if you are talking for hours a day and especially if you're trying
01:17:33.060 to be entertaining, you are going to say stupid things.
01:17:36.580 It is inevitable.
01:17:37.820 And the reason your podcast, if you're one of these unsuccessful people trying to cancel
01:17:41.280 successful podcasters, you probably haven't said anything offensive because your podcast
01:17:45.080 sucks.
01:17:45.880 Nobody wants to listen to it.
01:17:47.100 It's boring as hell.
01:17:48.560 A fun podcast is going to be offensive at times.
01:17:51.280 They're going to overstep boundaries at times.
01:17:53.020 That is the cost of doing business when you're being entertaining.
01:17:56.620 It's so true. 0.84
01:17:57.520 And honestly, I think about these people who are like, bring her down, bring her down.
01:18:00.280 She said something and bring him down, whoever it is. 0.51
01:18:02.120 And I know like I'm comforted by the fact because I've actually worked with these people.
01:18:05.240 I knew a few of these people that they wake up on Saturday morning and they're loveless,
01:18:09.560 sexless lives and look around at their lame, boring apartments and think my life sucks. 1.00
01:18:14.620 Who else can I cancel for that momentary soothing bomb?
01:18:17.680 But they go right back to zero.
01:18:19.160 Right.
01:18:19.620 And I've even had some of those people who try to play that card on me, call me up later
01:18:23.300 and say like, oh, I would love to have a job.
01:18:25.600 And it's so fun ignoring them.
01:18:27.260 My God, it feels so good.
01:18:29.640 Hey, I love that philosophy.
01:18:31.560 Good for you.
01:18:32.540 Keep ignoring them or have an assistant text them whatever you want to say from another
01:18:37.180 phone.
01:18:37.540 So they know you want to cuss them out, but it's not even worth your fingers being used.
01:18:41.460 Oh, wow.
01:18:42.180 What are you saying?
01:18:42.680 Like she gets a burner phone. 0.64
01:18:43.580 What am I doing with Abby?
01:18:44.640 No, I just signed my cunt. 0.85
01:18:49.340 Yeah, this is Megan's assistant.
01:18:50.980 She wanted to tell you this, but you weren't worth her actually typing a text.
01:18:54.160 So here we go.
01:18:55.360 And then just quotes and then whatever you want to say.
01:18:57.420 Go fuck yourself or whatever.
01:18:58.540 There it is.
01:18:58.940 Yeah.
01:18:59.360 God, that's what you really do want to say.
01:19:01.040 But you say you have to say it with your silence sometimes.
01:19:03.380 Now, what are you speaking of podcasters trying to cover other podcasters and Mary Trump
01:19:06.680 and her deadly threat?
01:19:09.060 Spotify, they came out today.
01:19:10.860 I think it was the CEO and said, like, I got, you know, free speech and we got Joe Rogan's
01:19:15.620 back and so on.
01:19:16.740 But the left is not listening.
01:19:18.660 But day by day, we get more like, you know, I don't know, 60s rockers, like retirement
01:19:24.320 age, like whatever.
01:19:25.500 They're all they're all on Social Security now pulling their music and someone trying
01:19:29.660 to like threaten Joe Rogan.
01:19:31.120 And I heard you and Andrew talking about this, like the threat is not so much that they pulled
01:19:35.300 Joe Rogan.
01:19:35.800 The threat is that one day they set their sights on you or somebody who doesn't have quite
01:19:39.920 as much power as Joe Rogan.
01:19:41.720 And you're a much easier target.
01:19:44.260 Yes, 100 percent.
01:19:45.480 And I actually think I had this conversation on another podcast and I think I even said
01:19:50.700 it in my own.
01:19:51.200 I'm not as worried about that because I think at the end of the day, people want authenticity.
01:19:55.160 And I think if you are trying to be authentic to what you truly believe and not being performative
01:19:59.840 for either side, a large swath of people will come to you and support you and you will
01:20:03.800 have fans and support in that sense always.
01:20:05.960 But I think the more dangerous part of this is the side that disagrees with me is radioactive.
01:20:11.760 And if I engage with them at all, I'm a traitor in some form or fashion and will silence
01:20:16.580 anybody we disagree with.
01:20:17.740 I truly think this is a much larger problem than me and my career or whatever.
01:20:21.760 I think that's a really bad thing for the country.
01:20:24.700 I think it's like toxic.
01:20:26.100 And I think as we continue on this diversion path, I truly do worry about, again, beyond
01:20:30.720 cancellation or whatever, this idea that you can just silence the other side if you don't
01:20:34.360 agree with them, I don't know if America survives if we keep doing that.
01:20:38.480 You, that reminds me of a joke I heard you say.
01:20:40.460 People always say, name one thing a white male can't have. 0.99
01:20:43.940 Do you remember how you finished it?
01:20:45.100 Yes.
01:20:45.580 Okay.
01:20:46.040 An opinion.
01:20:48.500 And I truly feel that way.
01:20:50.260 I want everybody to be honest with me.
01:20:53.000 White dude, whatever.
01:20:54.020 Be honest.
01:20:54.540 Even if you are racist, at least I know.
01:20:56.900 I'm not going to be friends with you, but at least I know to stay away from you.
01:21:01.120 So say it.
01:21:01.820 Have whatever you want to say and let it out.
01:21:03.360 I think a lot of toxicity gets created by forcing people to bury everything and then
01:21:07.560 all their silent thoughts get angrier and angrier and it just turns into a dark, toxic
01:21:11.840 thing.
01:21:13.240 So do you go like stand up, do stand up in clubs and so on?
01:21:17.540 Yeah, I'll do stand up in clubs.
01:21:18.780 I'm actually in a hotel room right now.
01:21:20.340 I'm going to do Richmond, Virginia tonight and tomorrow.
01:21:23.680 And how long have you been doing that for?
01:21:25.360 Like, you know, since you since you decided not to go the doctor route, how many how many
01:21:29.000 is a huge mistake?
01:21:30.060 Any Indians who might be listening, go the doctor route. 1.00
01:21:32.380 Don't listen to me.
01:21:33.800 Don't follow your dreams.
01:21:34.940 It's it's not worth it.
01:21:36.260 I'm very happy now, but it was a lot of not worth it stuff.
01:21:41.500 OK, good.
01:21:42.140 You heard it here first.
01:21:43.480 Yeah, 100 percent.
01:21:44.360 Fifteen years, though, I've been doing this.
01:21:45.720 Oh, seven.
01:21:46.240 I think I started doing this, like really doing this full time.
01:21:49.200 So 15 years this month, February.
01:21:50.700 So how's it changed right on the PC culture front from 15 years ago to now?
01:21:56.060 Man, it's so funny.
01:21:57.260 And I think as a comedian, you just get annoyed by the loudest voices you hear around you.
01:22:01.880 So when I was growing up, I was very like in Texas, especially with a lot of extreme
01:22:05.840 conservatives.
01:22:06.280 I was I was a much more liberal person.
01:22:07.920 All my jokes would kind of be poking fun at the at the right.
01:22:10.580 And then when I moved to New York and L.A., probably around 2009, you start to feel this
01:22:16.720 shift of like the left is getting more extreme and more censoring and whatever.
01:22:21.340 And now I most of my jokes are poking fun at them.
01:22:24.640 And it's very funny that I don't know if you remember Eminem and all the soccer moms
01:22:29.680 wanting to burn his CDs because he said, like, you know, homophobic things or whatever.
01:22:33.300 And we laughed at them.
01:22:35.040 The left has become those people.
01:22:37.080 They laughed at those right wing soccer moms. 1.00
01:22:38.640 And now they are the soccer moms, but they don't even have kids. 0.96
01:22:40.940 So they're really just losers.
01:22:44.220 Right.
01:22:44.620 It's true.
01:22:45.320 I mean, do you but do you self-censor like when you stand up?
01:22:48.420 I mean, Richmond's that's more well, Richmond's not that conservative, but it's it's more
01:22:52.540 conservative in the South in general.
01:22:53.800 Do you have to censor in a community like that or more when you're in the Northeast or
01:22:56.800 Canada or where?
01:22:58.240 You know, it's funny.
01:22:58.980 I used to really love performing for right wing audiences because there is this one thing
01:23:02.400 you can't talk about.
01:23:03.160 That's Jesus.
01:23:04.120 And I'm I'm Hindu, but I'm a religious guy.
01:23:06.120 So that's easy for me to not disrespect.
01:23:07.660 But there has become a sensitivity on both sides that there's a lot of snowflake culture
01:23:12.660 in comedy in general.
01:23:13.880 But at the end of the day, I forget how little I am.
01:23:18.060 I'm five seven and I can't fight, but I forget that on stage.
01:23:20.940 So I will say what I want to say and I'll try to say it in an intelligent, funny way.
01:23:25.160 But if you have a problem with it on that stage, we're just going to have it out.
01:23:28.460 I'll die on that stage.
01:23:29.960 Oh, really?
01:23:30.320 I have almost died on that stage a couple of yeah, a couple of times.
01:23:32.380 I thought you're going to say I just run.
01:23:33.900 I mean, that's what I would do.
01:23:34.560 No, no, I've had a run, but for my life, I mean, yeah, but I stay in there and I do
01:23:39.200 my time.
01:23:39.740 And then as soon as time is up, then I bolt like the bitch I am. 0.98
01:23:43.300 What subjects can you not touch?
01:23:44.820 Like what other than Jesus?
01:23:45.940 What would you just like?
01:23:46.800 No way.
01:23:47.400 Toxic radio.
01:23:48.640 You have to be very careful talking about any like LGBTQ things. 1.00
01:23:55.420 And again, I'm not going to not talk about it, but I have to end this.
01:23:58.600 It's not the worst thing because then I have to actually think about how I really feel about
01:24:02.780 a thing.
01:24:03.280 And generally, I just don't like when things go to extremes.
01:24:05.660 So like, all right, that's how I can present a joke and I can figure it out.
01:24:09.580 And there's a lot of like there's a lot of snowflake culture with like Trump stuff.
01:24:13.740 Like if you bring up Trump, they automatically assume you're going to say he's the biggest,
01:24:17.660 you know, piece of shit in the world.
01:24:19.900 And I'm not the biggest fan of him, but he's hilarious.
01:24:23.240 So I would like to, you know, have a nuanced Trump joke.
01:24:25.560 But a lot of times on the right, the second you bring up that name, it's inflammatory booze,
01:24:30.660 whatever.
01:24:31.000 They don't even let you get through a sentence.
01:24:32.600 So it can be.
01:24:33.620 That's interesting.
01:24:35.100 Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying.
01:24:37.120 I've experienced some of that.
01:24:38.460 I mean, forget, you know, when I had a dust up with him.
01:24:40.280 But even I've had some viewers be like, you say one thing that's critical of Trump and
01:24:44.640 you could say things all day long that's critical of Trump or Biden, either one of them.
01:24:47.620 But and they're like, you turned on the president.
01:24:50.940 It's like, it's not my job to support him.
01:24:53.280 It's not my job to support any of these politicians.
01:24:55.620 It's my job to hold them to account.
01:24:56.980 Like, if you want just a bootlicker, you should listen to a different show.
01:25:01.140 I'm not that person.
01:25:02.380 100 percent.
01:25:03.060 Yeah.
01:25:03.340 It is your job to report the news if it makes you feel any better.
01:25:06.840 My wife is in journalism school right now.
01:25:09.480 And you are one of the reasons because she said, here's a girl who is nuanced in her 0.99
01:25:13.960 views.
01:25:14.840 And it helped her understand that, like, there is a room for this in journalism.
01:25:19.280 Oh, that's nice to hear there.
01:25:21.080 There is room.
01:25:21.860 And honestly, it doesn't lead to the easiest path.
01:25:25.400 You know, I would say it's not necessarily the smoothest time you'll have in life, but it's
01:25:29.700 interesting.
01:25:30.040 It's fun.
01:25:30.720 And I think it's ethically honest.
01:25:32.900 You know what I mean?
01:25:33.360 It's like, I'm nobody's sycophant.
01:25:35.640 I've said that before.
01:25:36.280 And it's true. 0.56
01:25:36.820 And if you want that, you can find it so easily.
01:25:39.780 It's so many channels on the dial.
01:25:41.740 Yeah, 100 percent.
01:25:42.940 And I do think it's a much harder road.
01:25:45.180 But authenticity is always rewarded for decades, whereas inauthenticity is always rewarded for
01:25:50.220 like months or years or whatever.
01:25:51.740 And then you're just done.
01:25:53.100 That's good.
01:25:53.480 If you're authentic, you have a future long term.
01:25:56.260 So now you're going to release this special on YouTube.
01:25:58.320 And what's the goal?
01:25:59.820 Like, can you get can you make it via YouTube?
01:26:02.760 Right.
01:26:03.120 Or do you need like an HBO special or, you know, a Netflix deal like Dave Chappelle?
01:26:08.520 I mean, that's the ultimate, I realize.
01:26:10.420 But can you make it with a big YouTube special and repeat it?
01:26:13.840 Yeah.
01:26:14.460 And I think Andrew, my co-host, is the is the first guy in our generation to kind of
01:26:18.640 like crack the code of actually, you know, we used to just wait with, you know, with
01:26:22.700 our hands underneath us, like, hey, hopefully the network will give me something.
01:26:26.000 And then he got denied by every network and then said, you know what, I'm just going
01:26:28.740 to put it out to the people.
01:26:29.560 And then his ticket sales, you know, went up 10x.
01:26:32.220 And that's, you know, obviously that's what I want to happen with this special.
01:26:35.260 But also, I do think long term, Russell Peters, who's a legendary Indian comic, one of the
01:26:40.340 reasons I became a comic, he's he sold out stadiums and it really happened through YouTube.
01:26:46.300 So I think it is possible.
01:26:48.100 I'm not saying no to any network ever, but I want to do it on my terms.
01:26:52.440 And the easiest way to do that when you're not kind of cashing on a victimhood currency
01:26:56.500 is to put it out on YouTube for the people directly.
01:26:59.300 Do they censor comedians the way they censor, you know, people having interviews about COVID?
01:27:05.260 Uh, there's not an active censorship, but there is a kind of like a roundabout censorship
01:27:10.340 where, uh, and I don't think they're like nefarious in nature, but a lot of these industry
01:27:14.840 leaders tend to put on like a specific kind of, uh, minority act or whatever.
01:27:21.040 They tend to put on things that they like.
01:27:22.920 And for Indians, it has been a lot of the, you know, the victim stuff. 1.00
01:27:26.260 And I think there's some well-meaning white people who probably feel guilty about whatever,
01:27:30.300 you know, history.
01:27:31.780 And, uh, that kind of allows them to feel better.
01:27:34.380 Like, oh, I can't be bad.
01:27:35.460 If I put this guy on and he's calling me bad, I must be a good person.
01:27:39.320 I didn't want to do that because again, it seems so phony.
01:27:42.380 So I will rather just do my thing my way and you can try to cancel me, but the people who
01:27:47.780 support me, I'm going to be fine with them.
01:27:50.200 Well, and the bring back a poo thing is, you know, it's the Hank Azaria character voiced
01:27:53.900 character on the Simpsons who got effectively canceled by the Simpsons because they decided not
01:27:59.340 to have quote white people, voice colors, uh, characters of color.
01:28:03.180 Uh, and there, I know where there, it was very controversial move.
01:28:06.140 A lot of people were like, why, why is that necessary?
01:28:08.880 But Hank Azaria, I don't know, he did it.
01:28:10.860 And now they may be bringing back a poo from what I read that the creator of the Simpsons 0.59
01:28:15.300 said recently something like, I've got something amazing planned, but that was all he said.
01:28:19.800 Well, look, if it happens, I'm going to take credit for it because of my special.
01:28:23.500 So whatever, if it happens, they need to know that it's because of me.
01:28:26.840 Well, you know, your next, your next special should be bring back the seven dwarves because 1.00
01:28:31.920 they could use some help too.
01:28:33.660 Can you believe that whole thing?
01:28:36.280 Yeah, dude, this guy's taking work from the dwarf community. 1.00
01:28:39.620 What is that?
01:28:40.380 Peter Dinklage.
01:28:41.340 Yeah.
01:28:41.800 You want to be the only dwarf working? 1.00
01:28:43.260 That's a terrible thing.
01:28:44.700 Right.
01:28:45.060 No, I want my people to win.
01:28:46.880 I also do think there's a weird thing and I don't know if this is what he's doing, but
01:28:50.360 I also, I've noticed like this again with Indians, anytime anybody has an Indian accent
01:28:54.540 on a movie or TV or whatever, it's, it's offensive to me.
01:28:58.540 There were auditions I passed on with that kind of thing, but not because of an accent
01:29:01.700 that I'm not embarrassed by that accent.
01:29:03.420 My parents have that accent.
01:29:04.440 It's beautiful.
01:29:05.200 I think what you were saying, what are the, are the jokes making fun of my culture?
01:29:09.680 Then I don't want to do it.
01:29:11.120 It's a little bit offensive, but if he's just a funny guy who happens to have an accent,
01:29:14.520 that's every Indian uncle.
01:29:15.940 And I'll say the same thing about the seven dwarves. 0.96
01:29:18.220 Why don't you wait to see how they depict them before you decide that your activism, as you
01:29:22.760 call it, was all wasted.
01:29:24.020 Just give it a second, dog.
01:29:25.420 Let it breathe.
01:29:26.960 It is crazy how Peter Dinklage goes on to become, I mean, the most famous, well-known actor.
01:29:34.140 And, and he sort of picks up the ladder behind him and rolls it in.
01:29:39.160 And all these dwarves who had been cast in the film are like, Hey, yo, man, this is bullshit. 1.00
01:29:45.660 Like, let us act.
01:29:46.880 We were excited about these roles.
01:29:48.340 And now that you've got your millions and your power, we don't get to because you find
01:29:52.940 it offensive.
01:29:53.600 Why don't you consult with us?
01:29:55.880 And I don't even, if he's offended by it after he sees it, I get it.
01:29:59.060 If there's still seven dwarves living on a tree called, you know, dummy and dopey and 1.00
01:30:02.740 sleepy or whatever.
01:30:03.800 All right, cool.
01:30:04.440 Maybe we as a society have gone past that, but like, wait and see how they're depicted
01:30:08.500 before you say anything.
01:30:10.140 That's all I'm saying.
01:30:11.040 If you want to find that offensive, I get how it could be.
01:30:13.520 I do.
01:30:14.360 But wait and see before you just take word from people.
01:30:17.340 Well, it's like the remember when Scarlett Johansson was cast to play a transgender 1.00
01:30:21.920 person and the trans community objected because she's not trans.
01:30:26.620 And they were like, Oh, you're right.
01:30:28.620 We're so sorry.
01:30:29.400 How could we be so insensitive?
01:30:30.980 Guess what?
01:30:31.380 That film was never made.
01:30:32.540 They pulled.
01:30:33.320 She pulled.
01:30:34.060 They pulled.
01:30:35.000 The film was never made.
01:30:35.940 So now we don't get to see the film that was going to highlight the trans community in
01:30:38.680 a way that they probably would have loved.
01:30:40.500 And I'll tell you what.
01:30:42.160 It would cure a lot of transphobia if they saw that trans people could be as hot as Scarlett
01:30:46.080 Johansson.
01:30:47.340 People need to see that.
01:30:48.900 They need to know that if you are transphobic, you need to know because a lot of them, I
01:30:53.140 think, have a very set idea of what trans people are.
01:30:56.980 And I actually think that show Euphoria shows this really beautiful woman, trans woman born
01:31:01.200 a male.
01:31:02.040 And I think I would hope people who could be transphobic are looking at that and being
01:31:05.620 like, Oh, OK, I have these preset, these preconceived notions about what trans people
01:31:08.960 are.
01:31:09.200 It doesn't have to be that Scarlett Johansson.
01:31:11.300 If a trans person could look like Scarlett Johansson, I'd get a sex change or at least 1.00
01:31:16.820 consider cheating on the side with one.
01:31:19.440 All right.
01:31:19.960 Let's let's switch gears because I have to ask you about Dave Portnoy.
01:31:24.160 You guys talk about sports.
01:31:25.400 He's in the news again.
01:31:26.240 I mean, I don't know what's going on, but he's getting accused over and over by it's
01:31:32.400 Business Insider, right?
01:31:33.560 Insider.
01:31:34.240 Business Insider.
01:31:34.760 Once again, they love to find people that Dave has slept with young women and take a long
01:31:40.640 list of their complaints and then put it in the magazine.
01:31:43.520 And it sounds terrible whenever they print it.
01:31:45.580 I'm like, Oh, my God, whatever you do, do not sleep with Dave Portnoy.
01:31:48.860 And I continue to feel that way, by the way.
01:31:50.600 And I like Dave, but I continue to feel that way.
01:31:52.400 However, if you look into the stories, then you realize and whatever you do, don't take
01:31:58.840 these stories at face value, because once again, you have the magazine reporting their
01:32:04.000 publication reporting that he abused women.
01:32:07.000 There's one woman who they say she broke her. 1.00
01:32:09.720 What is it?
01:32:10.020 Her shoulder or her clavicle, her rib.
01:32:14.120 OK, a little lower.
01:32:15.680 And then you start to read the exchanges and hear like she's celebrating all of it.
01:32:20.740 She's talking to him in this one text exchange, which he then released about another guy.
01:32:25.820 He says the woman says, Oh, he's aggressive, but like scary, aggressive.
01:32:29.380 Ha ha.
01:32:29.820 Dave says, tell me about it.
01:32:31.120 She says he would pin me down, choke me a little, slap me around a little, bite me.
01:32:36.280 But he likes when I'm in control, too.
01:32:38.620 Dave says tougher than me, rougher.
01:32:41.040 And then she says no one can top your aggressiveness.
01:32:43.620 Trust me.
01:32:44.280 When another guy breaks one of my ribs, only then will you have a contender.
01:32:48.380 Ha ha ha.
01:32:49.120 And she goes on.
01:32:50.540 And these women continue to call him.
01:32:53.080 How?
01:32:53.560 How does I mean, I don't know.
01:32:56.040 What do you how do you view it?
01:32:57.260 Because Jason Whitlock and I had an epic argument about this the last time it happened, where
01:33:01.200 I was being kind of tough on the women and he was defensive of them and he was being very
01:33:06.420 tough on Dave and I was being defensive of him.
01:33:08.900 Where do you land?
01:33:10.440 I don't.
01:33:11.440 I mean, so if you read these stories like you just read that text exchange and that's
01:33:15.260 like if he actually broke a rib, that's a little wild.
01:33:19.640 I mean, even if she likes it rough, you can't be breaking ribs.
01:33:23.080 But I do think overall, when I step back from the issue that I don't have a more macroscopic
01:33:27.580 view, I don't want to get micro because I don't know all the facts.
01:33:30.560 But macroscopically, I really believe this guy's going to be president.
01:33:33.220 And within the next time, I truly believe that he's he is a master of the same thing Trump
01:33:38.460 is a master of, which is when you come at me, I am doubling down.
01:33:42.000 I'm not running from any controversy.
01:33:43.500 I take you head on and let's go.
01:33:45.860 And there is again, I think there's something we're drawn to with that.
01:33:48.560 There's an authenticity.
01:33:49.760 I think if he got a little bit meek and apologized and did the Hollywood, you know, have a lawyer
01:33:54.420 write you.
01:33:54.940 I'm sorry if any of these women felt uncomfortable. 0.81
01:33:56.900 Well, you can maybe still get your Hollywood roles.
01:33:59.280 But general people are going to be like, oh, that's so see through.
01:34:01.920 And so many women, quote, slid into his DMs and asked for sex. 1.00
01:34:06.480 It's like, ladies, that that's a terrible idea. 0.67
01:34:09.960 And guess what?
01:34:10.560 It can wind up with you getting hurt in ways you didn't expect and making a fool out of
01:34:14.300 yourself.
01:34:14.620 And then you really are going to have to think twice before you run to the press to talk about
01:34:19.020 what a victim you are.
01:34:19.940 I believe in personal responsibility and accountability.
01:34:22.560 El Presidente Portnoy.
01:34:24.740 Stranger things have happened.
01:34:27.100 Akash, thank you so much for being with us so much.
01:34:29.620 Thank you.
01:34:30.020 So now his special bring back up who is out on YouTube this week.
01:34:33.740 Keep an eye out for it.
01:34:34.880 You're going to love it.
01:34:35.560 Jason Reilly is coming back on Monday.
01:34:39.020 I love him.
01:34:41.260 We're going to talk with him about some breaking news out of New York City.
01:34:44.300 The New York Post reporting that DA Alvin Bragg, the soft on crime guy, is reversing course
01:34:49.740 on some of his most controversial policies and making armed robberies felonies again.
01:34:54.240 Oh, great.
01:34:55.280 Let that be a lesson to the other soft on crime DAs nationwide.
01:34:58.400 In the meantime, go ahead and download The Megyn Kelly Show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify and Stitcher
01:35:01.980 and go to youtube.com slash megankelly and do me a favor and subscribe.
01:35:06.000 Thanks for listening.
01:35:07.060 Have a great weekend.
01:35:09.860 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94
01:35:11.980 No BS, no agenda and no fear.