The Megyn Kelly Show - Zucker's Seismic CNN Exit, Whoopi's Suspension, and Canada's Freedom-Loving Truckers, with Rich Lowry, Melissa Cronin, Stu Burguiere, and Ezra Levant

00:00:00.400 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.980 Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.220 Major breaking news just a short time ago.

00:00:18.520 The media world rocked as Jeff Zucker, the president of CNN, just resigned for, according to his statement,

00:00:26.920 failing to disclose that he was having an affair with another senior executive, though an underling to him, at CNN.

00:00:36.140 Radar Online actually broke this story not long ago.

00:00:41.420 Shockingly, no one in the media touched it after Radar broke it, and now Jeff Zucker is officially out.

00:00:49.900 Joining me now is the reporter who broke the story for Radar, Melissa Cronin.

00:00:54.220 Melissa, thank you so much for being here. How are you?

00:00:56.920 Good morning, Megyn. I'm great. Thanks for having me.

00:00:59.740 All right. So you had this, I'm just looking back, in a report dated January 4th, 2022.

00:01:07.120 And why don't you bring us up to speed on what your reporting showed?

00:01:12.900 Yes. Today's news is a long time coming.

00:01:15.740 We posted this story back in January, on January 4th,

00:01:19.340 but we actually have been working on this story and reporting it out for years.

00:01:23.480 We had photographic evidence supporting this story back last year when we spotted Jeff and Allison at a Billy Joel concert together.

00:01:32.280 So we really put in the groundwork to make sure that we were 100% confident with this story.

00:01:37.860 And in January, we decided that there was just too much evidence and the world really needed to know about this.

00:01:44.780 Just because it was an open secret in the media world didn't mean that it was okay.

00:01:50.120 Mm-hmm.

00:01:50.500 And of course, no one was interested in it because he runs CNN and they didn't want to tick off Jeff Zucker.

00:01:57.420 They want to get on CNN.

00:01:59.280 They want to be seen.

00:02:00.600 And I know you reported in your piece, you were told too, he's a vindictive guy and you better be careful.

00:02:07.380 Absolutely. And, you know, one thing about Radar Online that all our readers know from over the years is that we post stories without fear or favor.

00:02:17.920 And we are really dedicated to pulling back the curtain and letting people know what's actually happening in media.

00:02:24.400 So it didn't scare us that he is a vindictive, nasty person.

00:02:28.300 If anything, that was extra incentive to really show the truth about what he was doing.

00:02:32.360 So he let's talk about Alison Gullist in one second, because most people don't know who she is, though they know him.

00:02:39.260 I just want to tell the audience this is what Jeff Zucker's statement says.

00:02:42.920 This is how it reads.

00:02:44.420 He says, as part of the investigation into Chris Cuomo's tenure at CNN, because you remember, he just fired Chris Cuomo for allegedly buddying up to his brother, Andrew Cuomo and team a little too closely during the Cuomo sex scandal investigation.

00:02:58.140 He says, as part of the investigation into Chris Cuomo's tenure at CNN, I was asked about a consensual relationship with my closest colleague, someone I have worked with for more than 20 years.

00:03:10.140 I acknowledged the relationship evolved in recent years.

00:03:15.400 I was required to disclose it when it began, but I didn't.

00:03:19.540 I was wrong.

00:03:20.600 As a result, I am resigning today.

00:03:22.640 And then he goes on about how grateful he is to everybody.

00:03:25.920 And he's had such a joyful time there with gratitude and love, Jeff Zucker.

00:03:29.600 OK, so Alison Gullist is the woman because she's released a statement now.

00:03:35.740 I mean, of course, this is the woman you reported about.

00:03:37.560 She's released a statement now as follows.

00:03:40.640 Jeff and I have been close friends and professional partners for over 20 years.

00:03:46.000 Recently, our relationship changed during COVID.

00:03:49.940 Recently, she says, I regret that we didn't disclose it at the right time.

00:03:55.020 I'm incredibly proud of my time at CNN and look forward to continuing the great work we do every day.

00:03:59.140 She's not yet resigned nor done anything other than release the statement so far as we know.

00:04:04.480 OK, so let's pick it back up with Alison Gullist.

00:04:06.440 First of all, according to your reporting, is it true that it was only recently that their relationship changed during COVID from professional to personal?

00:04:15.300 Absolutely not. And that word is just a classic piece of PR spin coming from someone who's a PR professional.

00:04:24.500 She joined CNN back in 2013.

00:04:27.200 And Katie Couric said in her book published last year that even that time there were questions rumbling about their relationship.

00:04:33.580 So, you know, I'd like I said, I think everyone who knows anything about this story knows that it's been happening for a lot longer than recent months.

00:04:43.440 They've known each other for over 20 years because my understanding is she was I don't know what her job was young at CNN.

00:04:52.420 I'm sorry, at NBC when he was an executive there.

00:04:55.980 Yes. So she was actually just like a public relations advisor, very young, very junior, like you said.

00:05:03.520 And she rapidly raced through the ranks at NBC, joined CNN, eventually became the executive vice president and chief marketing officer.

00:05:12.500 So all of our sources and people inside CNN and even Katie in her book have said that there are so many questions about the nature of her ascent at CNN.

00:05:22.640 Was it really because of her talents or was it because of her close relationship with Zucker?

00:05:28.180 She became, as you say, an executive VP of the company.

00:05:30.940 She reported directly to him.

00:05:33.140 We've seen executives at other companies get turfed for consensual affairs with with underlings.

00:05:41.500 McDonald's comes to mind.

00:05:42.680 There's there have been others.

00:05:43.800 I know he admits he should have disclosed it and didn't.

00:05:47.860 But the question is when.

00:05:50.120 Right.

00:05:50.300 Because he says, I acknowledge the relationship evolved in recent years.

00:05:53.900 I was required to disclose to disclose it when it began, but I didn't.

00:05:58.380 So the question is, when was that?

00:05:59.780 I mean, because if they're still misleading, they need to come clean.

00:06:03.960 If he began this affair a long time ago, prior to promoting her to being an executive vice president of the company, this is going to get ugly.

00:06:12.540 It's going to get ugly for him and it's going to get ugly for her and for others at CNN, because you're really not allowed to do that without disclosing that you have a personal relationship with said person.

00:06:23.840 Absolutely.

00:06:25.840 Absolutely.

00:06:26.440 You said it perfectly.

00:06:27.880 This is a huge mess.

00:06:29.020 And we're really only seeing the beginning of what's going to become an even bigger scandal.

00:06:33.060 The reality is both of them met back in 2000, before even 2010.

00:06:40.440 They both divorced around the same time in 2017.

00:06:44.720 In 2017, they were spotted having what appeared to be a lover's spat at a very public Hollywood reporter party.

00:06:52.360 In 2019, Alison threw Zucker a 54th birthday party.

00:06:57.640 None of that is normal behavior for underlings and their bosses.

00:07:02.020 They need to get honest about what was really happening.

00:07:04.500 And if they don't, other people are going to do it for them.

00:07:07.300 So in 2017, that's when Jeff Zucker divorced his wife and she divorced her husband, too.

00:07:12.280 Alison Golis divorced her husband.

00:07:14.680 Yes.

00:07:15.100 Yeah, it was just about 12 months that separated the two of them.

00:07:18.960 And perhaps that was coincidence.

00:07:20.200 But with everything else surrounding it as context, it's hard to believe that.

00:07:23.980 Mm hmm.

00:07:24.760 Well, and I don't know whether their divorce records are sealed, but normally, you know, you would that would be reflected in some way in the in the divorce records.

00:07:31.880 I know I know just anecdotally that he's got a good relationship with his ex-wife.

00:07:37.440 I don't know about her situation with her ex-husband.

00:07:39.860 And normally we wouldn't be discussing, you know, an affair.

00:07:42.880 People have affairs, whatever.

00:07:43.900 They fall in love.

00:07:44.460 They fall out of love.

00:07:45.280 But this has an important second layer because he was her boss.

00:07:49.420 And you cannot have an affair with an underling and continue promoting them up the line over other people without making that very clear.

00:07:56.060 He should have had nothing to do with overseeing her or having her report to him if, in fact, they were lovers.

00:08:01.580 That's very clear.

00:08:03.700 Now, you report in your piece that not only all of this, but they lived in the same apartment building.

00:08:11.260 Yes.

00:08:12.280 It's hard to believe, but it's true.

00:08:14.140 They lived in the same apartment building.

00:08:15.700 Their apartments were actually right on top of each other.

00:08:18.500 Again, was it coincidence or was it another piece of evidence showing the nature of their relationship?

00:08:25.040 Well, because Jeff Zucker lived the building you're reporting on is a very high end boutique building in Manhattan that's only got multimillionaires in it.

00:08:35.500 I mean, it's strange to think of I don't know what her husband does or ex-husband now, but a PR executive of CNN could not normally afford a place in that building.

00:08:47.360 It's totally laughable.

00:08:50.040 And Katie Kork is actually really good friends with Jeff's ex-wife.

00:08:53.520 And she wrote about this in her book as well and said that she, you know, she even raised an eyebrow out there with, quote unquote, cozy arrangement in the building.

00:09:05.080 It's just not normal and it's not okay.

00:09:07.300 But you, that's fascinating.

00:09:08.960 I didn't know that Katie was good friends with Jeff Zucker's ex-wife, Karen, because that makes Katie's disclosures in her book even more telling.

00:09:16.420 Katie wrote, this is from your reporting on your radar online piece.

00:09:20.800 You write as follows.

00:09:22.180 Katie Couric, who had Zucker, not only, of course, as her EP at the Today Show, but later at her daytime talk show, you write, hinted at the closeness of the pair's romance, meaning Zucker and Gallist, in her recent book Going There.

00:09:34.860 Quote, at a certain point, Jeff made a huge push to bring on Allison Gallist to her daytime television show, she wrote.

00:09:42.280 They were joined at the hip.

00:09:43.860 The problem was we, this is Katie talking, had already hired a PR person for the show.

00:09:48.500 There really wasn't a role for Allison.

00:09:50.440 Couric recounted how Zucker made her meet with Gallist anyway.

00:09:53.480 She wrote, quote, I had to wonder why Jeff was angling so hard to bring Allison on board.

00:09:58.800 She and her husband and kids had moved into the apartment right above Jeff and Karen's.

00:10:03.240 Everyone who heard about their cozy arrangement thought it was super strange.

00:10:07.380 By that point, Karen, Zucker's ex-wife, had become a close friend and it made me really uncomfortable.

00:10:13.960 And then she goes on to say, you write, Couric, who refused to hire Allison Gallist, went on to lament being overlooked for a job at CNN despite pushing behind the scenes for Zucker to get for Zucker to give her the gig.

00:10:26.280 And she writes, his first hire, Allison Gallist over on CNN.

00:10:31.940 Oh, and I never did hear from him about that job.

00:10:36.060 I mean, it's pretty obvious she's trying to telegraph something there.

00:10:38.880 I mean, you know, we can only wish that she was a little bit more explicit with what she had to say.

00:10:45.160 But this is another example of this cozy media club where people like Katie Couric saw wrongdoing happening in the corridors of power, didn't say anything about it, didn't do anything about it.

00:10:56.640 And, you know, it's our responsibility as journalists to call attention to these this hypocrisy.

00:11:02.480 You. OK, because there's another layer to this that we have to talk about, because you also report that prior to becoming a PR person with for CNN, et cetera.

00:11:13.460 At some point, she worked as Andrew Cuomo's communications director, Andrew Cuomo's communications director.

00:11:22.340 When was that? Do you know when that was in her history?

00:11:26.140 I don't know about the exact year. It was in the early 2000s.

00:11:29.700 OK, early 2000s. She had worked for Andrew Cuomo.

00:11:32.180 And so you're the the point that you're making in your piece is that these two, Zucker and Gullist and Gullist, she's not just like some PR hack now.

00:11:43.240 She's basically described as his number two person at CNN.

00:11:47.120 It's Zucker and Gullist that she was somehow that she may have participated in the decision to fire Chris Cuomo, which raises some interesting, some interesting questions.

00:11:59.220 I mean, this is just such a mess, and it's exactly why these kinds of relationships need to be disclosed.

00:12:06.120 So these chains of wrongdoing and conflicts of interest don't happen over years and years.

00:12:12.400 She was communications director for Andrew Cuomo, and that's why Zucker has resigned now as part of the investigation into Chris, because as we know, Andrew resigned in August 2021.

00:12:25.360 Chris wasn't fired until December 2021.

00:12:29.680 And what our sources inside of CNN are telling us is that, you know, the word in the hallways of power is that Zucker didn't act fast enough on Chris to discipline him because of pressure from Allison.

00:12:45.300 And we don't know the full story on that yet, but the reality is there's an obvious conflict of interest that are compounded by the inappropriateness of their relationship.

00:12:55.700 And, you know, we're going to see in when the results of that investigation become public exactly how that influence played out.

00:13:04.280 So, in other words, if Allison was still close to Andrew Cuomo and is pressuring Jeff Zucker not to do anything to Chris Cuomo, it creates, A, another ethical problem for CNN, and B, I suppose, will be used against them in Chris Cuomo's lawsuit against CNN right now.

00:13:25.740 Right. Because it's like, hey, if Chris Cuomo is going to say, hey, I wasn't the only one protecting my brother, so was your executive vice president and Jeff Zucker.

00:13:34.600 Yeah, that's what our sources in CNN are telling us.

00:13:37.840 And, you know, legal sources who are familiar with the investigation and, you know, Chris's plans are saying that he would be absolutely within his rights to subpoena Zucker to tell the truth about his relationship, because it's absolutely relevant to what happened to him in the last couple of months at CNN.

00:13:54.920 You know, this reminds me so much of the Gretchen Carlson situation at Fox, where it's like, if Roger hadn't fired her and stirred that hornet's nest, you know, he never would have lost his job.

00:14:10.620 And it's a good thing that that he did, you know, and all that was fine.

00:14:15.120 Of course, I can speak to that firsthand, but it's kind of like that, right?

00:14:20.380 If Jeff Zucker, maybe if Jeff Zucker hadn't fired Chris Cuomo and I was in favor of the firing, don't get me wrong, this hornet's nest wouldn't have been drudged up for him.

00:14:31.620 It is so fascinating to see, you know, these houses of cards that people build in media of secrets and lies and people covering for each other.

00:14:41.720 You know, the one piece that brings it all tumbling down is something that you can't ever really predict.

00:14:47.580 But, you know, for us, it was.

00:14:49.640 Yeah, sorry. Go finish with that.

00:14:50.720 So what are you hearing about the people like from the people inside CNN?

00:14:55.660 This is an open secret there.

00:14:57.120 They've known about this because usually this kind of thing comes out.

00:15:01.360 I mean, I guess not always.

00:15:02.840 It didn't at Fox, but have they known about this inside CNN?

00:15:06.800 Absolutely.

00:15:07.480 I mean, everyone, we have multiple sources inside CNN.

00:15:11.400 It's been kind of the scuttlebutt and the gossip and word on the street for years there.

00:15:17.180 I think, as we've seen in recent years with so many media scandals, there are a lot of really unethical, sometimes horrible things that are open secrets within the halls of power.

00:15:29.240 And just because they're an open secret doesn't make it OK.

00:15:33.240 People like us are always going to be, you know, have to have the courage to bring that to public and bring these people to account.

00:15:40.140 Hmm. You say you write in your piece about how, boy, this was prescient.

00:15:47.100 Years later, the heat is on for Zucker and Gullis to fess up about their affair and how it may have created conflicts of interest at their workplace.

00:15:54.340 On its website, again, quoting from your piece, CNN wrote in 2019.

00:15:58.100 In today's corporate world, especially in the wake of Me Too, boards are on high alert for anything that poses a reputational or financial risk to the company.

00:16:08.820 It added being in a relationship with the boss will make others at the company suspect that favoritism is at play and that will undercut the employees professional accomplishments and reputation.

00:16:20.800 This is unbelievable. And then and then you you point out the CNN story also quotes a human resources expert, Johnny C.

00:16:28.780 Taylor, Jr., who said it also undermines the idea of meritocracy and the idea that everyone has a fair shot.

00:16:34.660 I mean, obviously not not reviewed by Jeff Zucker or Alison Gullis before it went up on their Web site.

00:16:42.320 I mean, maybe she wrote it.

00:16:43.720 But, you know, for me, honestly, finding that piece of information was one of the pieces that really pushed it over the edge to say we have to go public with this because that kind of hypocrisy of talking out one side of your mouth,

00:16:57.780 one set of rules for everybody else except for the precious view at the top of the pyramid.

00:17:02.660 We have to be over that in the world of media and in our world today.

00:17:05.880 There can't be different rules for different people.

00:17:08.840 And this was just an example of how that kind of, you know, the decision to not go public with their relationship, an unethical decision can snowball into something that potentially could have cost a man his entire career.

00:17:23.600 Melissa, my blood is boiling.

00:17:26.780 My blood is boiling over and over and over again.

00:17:32.320 And we are taught about the character of the people running America's newsrooms and it never fails to disappoint.

00:17:43.260 Absolutely.

00:17:44.100 And, you know, we're dedicated to continuing to expose these bad actors and, you know, justice will happen as it happens over the next couple of months.

00:17:55.420 But we're starting to begin to see that accountability coming for them today.

00:17:59.540 You know, this reminds me a little bit of the John Edwards thing, right?

00:18:02.200 Which was broken by the National Enquirer and people are like, as the National Enquirer.

00:18:06.880 Bullshit.

00:18:07.340 Right.

00:18:08.240 And yet.

00:18:09.760 Right.

00:18:10.280 And yet that was 100 percent right and wound up bringing him down.

00:18:14.900 And this story was dismissed.

00:18:16.620 It's like radar.

00:18:17.480 It's kind of a gossip online site.

00:18:19.100 People are like and listen, it's like not not that it's everything it prints is correct.

00:18:22.440 I can speak to that one firsthand, too.

00:18:24.200 But you had it.

00:18:25.120 And this story was really detailed and had clearly been well reported.

00:18:28.500 And at the time I read it, I was like, whoa.

00:18:31.400 And I was amazed.

00:18:32.300 Nobody nobody picked it up.

00:18:34.720 Nobody went with it until now.

00:18:36.760 We see the two principles involved confirming it.

00:18:40.800 Not if not every detail, the heart of your reporting.

00:18:43.360 So job well done.

00:18:45.180 Thank you, Megan.

00:18:46.460 Wow.

00:18:46.720 Joining me now with more Stu Bergeer.

00:18:50.160 Are we going to go to him now?

00:18:51.020 We're going to take a quick break.

00:18:52.860 All right.

00:18:53.840 We're going to go to him now.

00:18:54.740 He is the host of Stu Does America on The Blaze TV and has followed the Cuomo story very closely.

00:19:01.440 Stu, your reaction to this stunning shakeup in the world of news?

00:19:07.300 Absolutely incredible, Megan.

00:19:08.880 And it goes back to the central question that I know I asked.

00:19:13.940 I know you asked.

00:19:15.000 It seemed like everybody asked this question.

00:19:17.400 Why on earth was someone like Chris Cuomo continually protected for so long when he did so many things that were wrong?

00:19:26.260 And we don't know exactly the details of how this unwinds, but we know that, you know, Zucker is in a relationship with a former Cuomo aid and the whole house of cards stands on Chris Cuomo maintaining his job and the reporting by CNN being totally irrational when it comes to looking at Andrew Cuomo's scandals.

00:19:53.960 Because the second all those protection walls break down, the entire thing collapses.

00:19:59.820 And, you know, information is power here.

00:20:03.540 You know, I don't know where this how exactly all this comes out, but we do know that this investigation, as Zucker said, came from the Chris Cuomo investigation.

00:20:14.080 They were able to unfurl this information because of them being held responsible for the actions of their own employees.

00:20:21.320 And, you know, I thought there how many people joked about it all the time.

00:20:28.240 They must have dirt on Jeff Zucker.

00:20:30.520 What is going on?

00:20:31.700 Well, this is what was going on.

00:20:34.800 It's so layered.

00:20:36.180 Right.

00:20:36.680 The fact that she worked for him for at least part of the time.

00:20:41.020 I don't know if she was still his direct report, but I know for a fact she was his direct report for a number of years in the recent past.

00:20:50.000 So she worked for him.

00:20:51.900 She had worked for Andrew Cuomo and may have still had some sort of a relationship with Andrew Cuomo.

00:20:58.660 I have no idea.

00:20:59.940 But that's something I'm sure we'll learn more about.

00:21:02.120 And Chris Cuomo, of course, has a relationship with Andrew Cuomo and their brothers.

00:21:07.080 So Jeff Zucker's at the top for a long, long time protecting Chris Cuomo and allowing him.

00:21:11.400 He was the one who allowed him to put Andrew Cuomo on the air, notwithstanding what had been a very smart rule, not letting the one guy interview his brother.

00:21:18.080 But he bent the rule for ratings.

00:21:20.340 Let him put him on.

00:21:21.360 No hard questions, even though the nursing home scandal was already unfolding.

00:21:24.940 No problem.

00:21:26.080 He got away with murder.

00:21:26.960 I mean, truly in those interviews.

00:21:28.940 And then suddenly it was like, oh, you helped your brother more than I knew and you're fired.

00:21:36.200 And it was weird.

00:21:37.460 It was like, well, wait, you you knew most of what he did months ago and you didn't care.

00:21:43.200 So what changed?

00:21:44.660 And we talked about this on the show.

00:21:46.240 One of the things that changed was ownership changed of CNN and it fell into the hands of John Malone, whose company also happens to own Sirius XM, among other media entities.

00:21:57.240 And suddenly there was less of a tolerance for the chumminess between Chris Cuomo and the governor of New York, his brother, Andrew Cuomo.

00:22:06.160 So one does wonder whether that was even Jeff Zucker's decision at the very end, whether his for his hand was forced or whether he just got finally just realized, you know, there's too many ethical lines.

00:22:19.800 And it's going to start to make me look really bad if I keep permitting this or looking the other way and fired him knowing this dirt could come back on him at any moment.

00:22:29.740 Yeah, I mean, it's an impossible position really for Zucker to be in.

00:22:34.920 He knows that there's responsible ownership about to come on board.

00:22:38.540 He knows that pressure is coming, even if it wasn't the exact cause for this firing.

00:22:42.560 It probably would have been in the coming months anyway.

00:22:46.340 And so he's sitting here knowing that if he lets go of Cuomo, there's one thing we know about every member of the Cuomo family that at least I'm familiar with, which is especially the two men at the top here that we've talked about so often is that they are vindictive.

00:23:02.960 They don't care about themselves and over and over and over again, if they have information, if they have power, they think they can use over you, they will use it without any hesitance to crush your life if it benefits them in any way.

00:23:22.600 And here we are with, I mean, imagine the feeling of Jeff Zucker.

00:23:27.440 This is not the feeling, you know, this is not the day maybe to feel empathy for Zucker, but he's sitting here in an impossible situation.

00:23:34.520 He knows every ounce of credibility of his network is on the line for the way he's handled Chris Cuomo and Andrew Cuomo over the past year or two.

00:23:42.620 He knows how bad he looks.

00:23:43.880 Uh, I think he wants to keep, uh, you know, the, he wants to keep this whole house of cards together and he's realizing he's running out of, uh, ways to, to do that.

00:23:55.760 And once you go to this point where you let Cuomo go, where you actually try to hold him responsible in even the slightest way, there's no way that either Chris or Andrew or someone else around them is going to expose every dark secret they have over you.

00:24:11.880 No way that they're not going to.

00:24:13.300 Yeah.

00:24:13.960 Yeah.

00:24:14.380 Yeah.

00:24:14.700 Sorry.

00:24:15.040 They, there, there's no way they're not going to, uh, to, to miss that chance because this is the game they play.

00:24:20.540 It is fundamental to their, their character, to their core, to utilize their power, their information, anything they can to destroy their enemies.

00:24:30.660 So the second you cross that line and you say, Hey, Chris, we have to hold you accountable.

00:24:34.620 You become an enemy and you become, uh, on the wrong side of that arsenal.

00:24:39.900 And it seems like that's what happened with Jeff Zucker today.

00:24:43.300 My respect for my pal and yours.

00:24:45.520 Janice Dean is growing by the second listening to you talk, right?

00:24:48.380 This is who she took on the weather bitch as Chris Cuomo dubbed her, right?

00:24:53.160 I should have worn that shirt on the air today.

00:24:54.920 Shit.

00:24:55.140 I, I, I meant to do that.

00:24:56.760 Um, I, I, I got her a shirt for Christmas that reads weather bitch and my shirt reads I'm with weather bitch.

00:25:02.460 Um, but I saw it and I have to have a, I'm with weather bitch.

00:25:06.120 I got him.

00:25:06.640 I was giving him out for free.

00:25:08.380 Um, so anyway, my, but the point is she did take them on and Jeff Zucker's hand was forced.

00:25:14.000 He had to take them on.

00:25:15.520 He, he really had no other choice.

00:25:17.620 I don't know what the reason was.

00:25:19.060 I don't know whether he was forced to or whether he just realized there was too much industry pressure not to.

00:25:24.260 Um, but now you're right.

00:25:26.840 He's now he's unleashed hell to quote, uh, what is it?

00:25:32.820 Russell, Russell Crowe.

00:25:34.300 And, um, you know, what's that movie?

00:25:37.440 He's in the Coliseum and he's fighting.

00:25:39.580 Oh, gladiator.

00:25:40.380 Thank you.

00:25:41.060 And he's unleashed hell now.

00:25:43.540 And I'll bet they're not done.

00:25:45.820 I'll bet you anything.

00:25:46.620 They're not done.

00:25:47.340 You know, Chris Cuomo, Andrew Cuomo, um, they are loyal to one another that we know.

00:25:52.700 And so the story is not over.

00:25:55.380 Mark my words.

00:25:56.820 You have Chris Cuomo going down.

00:25:58.800 You have Andrew Cuomo going down.

00:26:00.680 You have now Jeff Zucker going down.

00:26:03.180 You have the head of the human rights campaign going down.

00:26:07.340 You have the head of times up going down all related to this.

00:26:12.220 And, you know, there's more, you know, corruption usually, uh, coalesces around other corrupt people.

00:26:19.240 You know, people just, they, you make your circles, uh, with like-minded people.

00:26:24.000 And a lot of times when that starts to break up, there is a, a spectacular collapse around the corner.

00:26:30.860 None of this, as we've discussed, would have happened without Janice Dean.

00:26:34.840 Uh, the most central person I think in, in all of this unfurling is, is Janice.

00:26:42.580 She just sat there with her one little match, but she wouldn't let anyone extinguish it.

00:26:48.840 She just kept, kept relighting, kept relighting, kept relighting.

00:26:53.100 She was threatened.

00:26:53.800 She was warned.

00:26:54.500 She was mocked.

00:26:55.960 Um, and hopefully she'll be back to talk about it right here.

00:26:59.260 Stu, thank you for coming on.

00:27:01.160 I appreciate it.

00:27:02.040 Thank you so much, Megan.

00:27:03.180 Uh, you know, we just happened to be joined today by Rich Lowry.

00:27:06.500 He's editor at National Review.

00:27:08.020 And this is where we're going to pick it up, um, when he joins us right after the break.

00:27:12.200 The disgusting, dishonest, unethical media that lectures America about their behavior.

00:27:22.220 Well, America, this is who they are.

00:27:25.120 This is who they are.

00:27:26.320 Don't go away.

00:27:27.060 We've got a full plate of breaking news today.

00:27:36.260 Whoopi Goldberg has been suspended now for two weeks in the wake of her dumb comments about the

00:27:41.880 Holocaust and CNN chief Jeff Zucker is resigning, admitting now that he had what he calls a consensual

00:27:50.300 affair with quote, my closest colleague, she's somebody who is under him in more ways than one.

00:27:57.080 Sorry, I couldn't resist.

00:27:58.320 Um, and that he's acknowledged the relationship.

00:28:00.920 He claims that it evolved in recent years.

00:28:04.420 Questionable.

00:28:05.000 According to our first guest, a reporter who's been broken, who broke the story earlier this

00:28:09.000 month for radar online.

00:28:10.400 Uh, and now he is resigning today.

00:28:13.180 Uh, Rich Lowry's editor of National Review.

00:28:15.740 He joins me now.

00:28:16.500 Rich, this is a bombshell.

00:28:17.480 Um, it's, it is something that has been, I don't know if it's an open secret, but certainly

00:28:23.440 there've been rumors to this effect.

00:28:25.320 Um, but this isn't just, okay, the guy cheated outside of his marriage, whatever.

00:28:30.180 This is somebody who's been promoted up the ranks at CNN to become an executive vice president

00:28:35.580 under him as he was CNN chief.

00:28:39.000 And, um, it raises all sorts of ethical questions for him, especially when you factor in the fact

00:28:44.500 that she worked for Andrew Cuomo before she came to work for him.

00:28:48.960 My understanding now, my team just checked.

00:28:50.320 She worked for Zucker at NBC.

00:28:52.480 Then Zucker left NBC and went to CNN.

00:28:55.720 And at, at, at some point after NBC, she worked for Andrew Cuomo and then was brought over by

00:29:00.280 Zucker to work for him at CNN, rising up the ranks.

00:29:04.100 What do you make of it?

00:29:04.660 I'd say I'm stunned, but nothing surprises me now.

00:29:08.340 It's just the, the temerity of these people.

00:29:10.980 How many years now are we into me too?

00:29:13.160 So you should have gotten the message at this point, this kind of relationship, undisclosed

00:29:18.120 relationship with a colleague, someone under you, it's just not appropriate.

00:29:22.440 And it's just, as you've discussed with your prior guests, it's just perfect, right?

00:29:26.540 They, they, they cross this ethical line by having Chris Cuomo interview Andrew Cuomo, these

00:29:32.580 chummy interviews that really don't disclose any new information.

00:29:37.100 There are no tough questions as, as you pointed out, they ignore the story as more and more

00:29:43.020 reality intrudes on the mistakes that Andrew Cuomo had made, you know, that, that Janice pointed

00:29:48.180 out with, uh, with, with, with great, uh, uh, determination.

00:29:52.780 And then this whole thing unspools and destroys everyone, right?

00:29:56.980 Everyone is brought down, uh, by it.

00:29:59.500 And you, you have Andrew who, you know, is, is a bully and a thug and thinks he can get

00:30:05.220 away with this kind of, you know, a sad guy and thinks he can get away with these, these

00:30:09.620 comments to women.

00:30:11.220 And they have Chris Cuomo thinks he can get, get away with advising him at the same time

00:30:16.200 he's covering him, or at least was covering him for a time.

00:30:19.260 And then Jeff, Jeff Zucker presiding over the whole thing and thinking he can get away

00:30:23.040 with this.

00:30:23.660 And it's just, it's creates this sense of cynicism.

00:30:28.020 Cynicism is the wrong word because it's a, it's a, a deserved skepticism about the people

00:30:34.240 who put themselves above everyone else, put themselves on a pedestal.

00:30:38.300 They have the highest ethical standards.

00:30:40.160 They can judge everyone else.

00:30:41.320 They can tell us what is 110% fact and should never be questioned are not on the up and up.

00:30:47.240 And it's, it's, it's so clarifying and infuriating because anybody who's watched CNN over the

00:30:55.320 past five or six years has seen what lecturers they are.

00:30:59.720 Not everyone there, but so many of their anchors have turned into social arbiters who will tell

00:31:04.920 America what's, what's right and what's wrong and how bad they are for not following CNN's

00:31:10.520 edicts and values.

00:31:12.040 And yet what's happening behind the scenes at CNN and maybe not even behind the scenes,

00:31:17.320 Jeffrey Toobin with his masturbate, you know, decides to masturbate in front of colleagues

00:31:21.780 on his conference call, his zoom call with the New Yorker.

00:31:25.720 CNN doesn't fire him.

00:31:27.360 He does not get fired.

00:31:29.160 Don Lemon gets credibly accused by a guy who's suing him.

00:31:32.640 We had him on the program.

00:31:33.540 There's an eyewitness to it.

00:31:34.520 Who's ready to testify of fondling himself in a bar and then rubbing his hands all over

00:31:38.840 this guy's face.

00:31:40.140 They're involved in the litigation at this moment, right?

00:31:43.140 Nothing happens with Don Lemon, Chris Cuomo.

00:31:46.200 Then it comes out.

00:31:47.120 Not only did an executive producer for Chris Cuomo apparently complain about him being too

00:31:51.060 much of a bully and she got turfed.

00:31:52.640 Then you have another former executive at ABC who worked with him then come out and say,

00:31:57.080 he grabbed my behind in a room full of colleagues at a bar.

00:32:01.100 No one says, boo, fine.

00:32:02.680 No problem whatsoever.

00:32:03.840 Then you find out that he's helping his brother tamp down on the sexual allegations against

00:32:07.800 Andrew Cuomo.

00:32:08.680 See, Jeff Zucker does nothing initially, nothing.

00:32:11.820 And I said on the air prior to Chris Cuomo getting fired, I said, what's going on with

00:32:18.320 Jeff Zucker?

00:32:19.220 What what do they have on Jeff Zucker that I literally said?

00:32:22.760 I think I have that exact thing.

00:32:24.680 Hold on.

00:32:24.960 My team actually just sent it to me because I was curious.

00:32:27.600 Um, here's me.

00:32:29.360 What is it?

00:32:30.220 What's going on at CNN?

00:32:31.820 What's going on with Jeff Zucker that he doesn't have a problem with any of this?

00:32:35.820 Right.

00:32:36.100 Well, now we know we know exactly what was going on with Jeff Zucker.

00:32:39.240 They had stuff on him, too.

00:32:42.560 And it makes it really hard to pull that trigger when that's the case.

00:32:46.520 Yeah.

00:32:47.080 And you get, you know, what tangled webs we weave.

00:32:49.460 And as you pointed out, it bears a resemblance to what happened at Fox, where everyone is

00:32:54.560 compromised and everyone had something on something else.

00:32:57.200 And then eventually it all came unraveled.

00:32:59.520 But the thing was, like, everyone at CNN was looking down at Fox at this as this terrible,

00:33:05.260 unholy place.

00:33:06.240 And not just over that, you know, in general, at the same time, they're sitting on this web

00:33:11.580 of lies and deceit.

00:33:13.860 And again, it just creates a sense, what are the rules and why are the people who are most

00:33:19.280 insistent on enforcing the rules, not willing to abide by them themselves, whether it has

00:33:25.780 to do with double standards over cancellations, or it has to do with masks or whatever else

00:33:30.200 it's corrosive to our public life.

00:33:34.180 We need everyone to do better.

00:33:36.080 And especially if you're going to lecture people, just make some minimal effort to abide

00:33:42.360 by your own standards.

00:33:43.860 And they just don't.

00:33:44.600 And they haven't.

00:33:45.140 Yeah, they don't.

00:33:45.980 All right.

00:33:46.220 And that leads me to another couple of interesting stories.

00:33:48.720 But before I leave the Jeff Zucker thing, I do want to say this, right?

00:33:51.700 Today, I'm thinking about the CNN PR staffers, the people who were passed over for promotions

00:33:59.320 within PR or for executive vice president roles.

00:34:01.880 And what they have to ask themselves now, right, if they didn't know about this.

00:34:06.820 Now, these two and their behavior has compromised all of those people who now have to ask, maybe

00:34:12.760 I maybe I should have been promoted.

00:34:15.080 Why did she get promoted?

00:34:16.280 She put herself in that position and he put her in it, too.

00:34:19.580 And I wouldn't be surprised if we hear from one of those people in the next few days, because

00:34:23.840 it's an outrage.

00:34:25.200 There's a there's a reason why you don't do this and then continue promoting up the line.

00:34:28.820 There are really good reasons why you don't do it.

00:34:31.300 So this this resignation, of course, was justified.

00:34:34.680 But I'm telling you, Rich, there's more to this story.

00:34:37.660 There's more that's going to come out.

00:34:38.920 My my gut is a reporter.

00:34:41.000 I'm just telling you.

00:34:42.520 So, yeah, you're good that you're on to it before.

00:34:46.080 So I believe you, Megan.

00:34:47.140 OK, you don't have to convince me.

00:34:49.640 OK, so but but the Whoopi Goldberg and what's happening to Ilya Shapiro, it's kind of all

00:34:56.680 connected, right?

00:34:57.860 The media is holier than thou lecturing of us.

00:35:02.300 And then until it comes back to hoist you on your own petard in in Whoopi's case.

00:35:06.700 Right.

00:35:07.060 OK, she gets suspended.

00:35:08.420 It's a nothing.

00:35:09.380 It's stupid.

00:35:10.320 I said yesterday she shouldn't be fired.

00:35:12.020 I don't agree with the suspension either.

00:35:13.440 It's dumb.

00:35:14.540 She said something dumb.

00:35:15.840 She deserves the criticism.

00:35:17.060 You host a show like The View.

00:35:19.020 It's called The View.

00:35:20.600 Your point of view is out there and you can be criticized for it.

00:35:24.280 No problem.

00:35:24.720 You say dumb things.

00:35:25.740 You're going to get it.

00:35:26.800 Been there.

00:35:28.660 But it has an extra layer to it, Rich, because she and her colleagues have been in the business

00:35:34.020 of castigating everyone in public life for their missteps.

00:35:40.480 Yeah.

00:35:41.420 And look, this is anyone who is sitting watching The View and and thinking, I'm going to get

00:35:47.360 my views of important events in 20th century history, European history, and how to understand

00:35:54.480 them from The View, that you're grievously mistaken.

00:35:58.720 Not that anyone's actually doing that, right?

00:36:00.480 It's just everyone understands these are women who don't know a lot.

00:36:03.540 And it's kind of interesting because they're throwing out their opinions.

00:36:07.460 I've never been a View watcher.

00:36:09.220 But when Meghan McCain was on, I would at least watch the clips on Twitter because there's

00:36:13.680 kind of interesting, dramatic conflict, which it seems to lack now.

00:36:17.720 I would say the thing that's most notable for me now about the Whoopi Goldberg episode,

00:36:23.660 I thought when she initially said it, well, she just doesn't know anything.

00:36:27.300 But then she was on Stephen Colbert.

00:36:29.040 And it's not as though she knows a ton.

00:36:30.760 But this is a considered view of hers, that the Holocaust was not a racial thing because

00:36:36.740 it involved two sets of white people.

00:36:38.760 And you couldn't necessarily identify a Jew walking down the street the way you could a

00:36:43.500 black person.

00:36:44.100 And so then it was kind of a different category, a different phenomenon.

00:36:48.240 So this constitutes a bizarre kind of rehabilitation or whitewashing of the Nazis as non-racists

00:36:56.060 on woke grounds.

00:36:58.380 And she basically continued to defend this view on Colbert and at the end said, well, I

00:37:04.100 understand people are upset about it, so I'm just not going to talk about it anymore, but

00:37:07.180 seemed kind of angry and aggrieved about it.

00:37:10.240 So again, I wouldn't suspend her.

00:37:11.680 I wouldn't fire her.

00:37:13.020 But this is something that there's something a little more poisonous here than just being

00:37:17.160 stupid.

00:37:17.520 Yeah, you're not wrong about that.

00:37:19.660 And it was crazy because she kind of tried to reduce the Holocaust to, you know, people

00:37:26.080 hurt people.

00:37:27.880 Man hurts man.

00:37:28.780 It was one step away from hurt people hurt people, saying it's for the self-help circles.

00:37:35.780 So, yeah, you can't reduce the Holocaust to that.

00:37:38.200 And it's very clearly it was about race and Hitler's belief that Jews were an inferior race

00:37:42.680 and needed to be extinguished.

00:37:43.860 And, you know, you're going to discuss it on the air.

00:37:46.360 You could have researched it and then you're going to go apologize for it.

00:37:49.240 You should definitely have done your research.

00:37:51.240 And it's no accident she used Jonathan Greenblatt of the of the ADL, a group that was formed

00:37:55.680 to stand up against anti-Semitism, anti-Semitism.

00:37:59.500 She used him to rehabilitate her because he's now, as Ben Shapiro was saying, he's basically

00:38:05.240 become a Black Lives Matter advocate.

00:38:06.800 I mean, that's his group is now BLM.

00:38:08.800 It's not about defending against anti-Semitism.

00:38:10.860 And they redefined the whole definition of racism recently, which dovetails perfectly

00:38:15.780 with Whoopi's own.

00:38:17.640 It doesn't have anything to do with your intent or your thoughts about Black people or people

00:38:23.540 of any other race.

00:38:24.440 It's about systems.

00:38:26.240 Right.

00:38:26.980 Yeah.

00:38:27.360 It's a it's a it's a corrupt point of view.

00:38:29.440 It bears some resemblance to what you're just talking about a little while ago about the

00:38:35.340 Me Too groups being corrupted to try to defend Andrew Cuomo, you know, and then they have

00:38:40.720 to resign.

00:38:42.280 So obviously, the Nazis were fired by a racist vision of creating an Aryan neo-imperial hegemony

00:38:50.560 over Europe.

00:38:52.220 You know, it's really not that complicated.

00:38:55.000 And if we're going to have one standard, though, you know, I would not suspend and investigate

00:39:00.840 Billy Shapiro over a poorly worded tweet that he sincerely apologized over repeatedly or

00:39:07.820 suspend Whoopi Goldberg.

00:39:09.380 Now, the difference here is that Billy is still in serious danger of getting fired, where I

00:39:14.080 think this is more theater with Whoopi Goldberg.

00:39:17.060 But why not, you know, just on the view today, have an hour argument over this?

00:39:21.900 That would be interesting.

00:39:23.280 Right.

00:39:23.500 You'd have open debate, but no one thinks that way anymore.

00:39:27.100 OK, so who is Ilyas Shapiro and how does his current story play into all of this?

00:39:33.700 That is where we will pick it up right after a quick break.

00:39:37.040 Don't go away as Rich Lowry stays with us on the craziness at Georgetown Law School.

00:39:48.200 So, Rich, who is Ilyas Shapiro?

00:39:50.000 So he's been a scholar at the Cato Institute focusing on the Constitution and legal issues.

00:39:56.380 Classic libertarian, very into the Constitution.

00:40:01.400 You know, I know a lot about his policy positions, but very market oriented, probably like most

00:40:06.240 Cato people's people are kind of favorable to more open borders approach on immigration.

00:40:13.120 So he's not like a classic hater, you know, or anyone's some populous firebrand.

00:40:20.060 Sometimes you wonder, well, what's going on?

00:40:22.120 Why are they so angry about something?

00:40:23.940 He's not one of those types.

00:40:25.500 And he tweeted after Biden said, well, he's going to replace Stephen Breyer with a black

00:40:32.360 woman necessarily, no matter who else is out there.

00:40:35.340 And there's an Indian American judge in the D.C.

00:40:38.980 circuit that he thinks is the best qualified progressive judge.

00:40:41.880 He's like, choose him.

00:40:43.880 Don't choose a lesser black woman.

00:40:46.560 Now, that phrase makes you cringe.

00:40:48.980 It makes you wince.

00:40:50.080 It's not really what he he meant to communicate.

00:40:52.720 He just was meaning to say anyone would be lesser, not as qualified as this brilliant

00:40:59.860 D.C.

00:41:00.520 circuit judge.

00:41:01.960 And he deleted it and he apologized.

00:41:04.340 And he's up for a job, not up for a job, been accepted for a job at Georgetown Law School

00:41:10.660 as executive director of a center there.

00:41:13.320 And the dean immediately denounced him.

00:41:15.740 There immediately calls for him to be fired over this.

00:41:18.660 He's been hired.

00:41:19.520 He was hired officially as of this Tuesday, but they immediately suspended him and are

00:41:23.920 investigating whether his tweet violated their rules.

00:41:27.940 But I mean, there's nothing to investigate.

00:41:29.680 It was a bad tweet, poorly worded.

00:41:31.820 Any person of good faith knows what he meant.

00:41:34.380 It wasn't a racist position.

00:41:36.180 If he was a racist, you know, he wouldn't be promoting an Indian American Hindu to make

00:41:41.520 history on on the court.

00:41:42.880 He was just wanted to apply a standard of let's look at just at merits and excellence as a as

00:41:50.120 a jurist.

00:41:50.780 And the Georgetown continues to come down like a ton of bricks on him.

00:41:55.780 The students are upset.

00:41:57.740 They're asking for cry rooms and reparations and all the rest of it and braying for his

00:42:02.940 head.

00:42:03.260 And it remains to be seen whether Georgetown will fire him or not.

00:42:06.040 The the Black Law Students Association at Georgetown Law demanding that he be fired, they wrote

00:42:12.200 in a January 28th letter to the Georgetown Law administration.

00:42:15.800 I'm quoting in part.

00:42:17.560 We this group right on behalf of the Georgetown University Law Center student body to demand

00:42:21.560 the revocation of Elia Shapiro's employment contract and to condemn his racist tweets at

00:42:26.960 Georgetown Law.

00:42:27.580 Black students are haunted by the shadow of imposter syndrome.

00:42:31.160 Shapiro reinforced this phenomenon by reducing black women's accomplishments to small favors

00:42:36.720 from heaven.

00:42:37.900 Shapiro's tweets and apparent prejudice have no place at our university.

00:42:41.400 The revocation of his employment is more than appropriate.

00:42:44.740 And then I guess yesterday there is video of a meeting amongst students meant to discuss

00:42:51.680 Elia Shapiro's alleged racism.

00:42:54.220 And there was a demand, as you just point out, for reparations to the students just for having

00:43:01.280 to sit through the meeting.

00:43:02.880 Here is a soundbite.

00:43:05.900 In terms of coming back to the reparation things, because this is great, but we have to do so

00:43:10.720 much work to catch up for all this stuff that we missed.

00:43:13.400 All I'm saying is, I don't know if it's a couple of dinners or lunches.

00:43:17.320 But that would help us, because we, like, we can't, I can't go home for lunch now because

00:43:23.400 I need to study.

00:43:24.480 I have to, I have to make up for this class that I lost.

00:43:26.900 So it's little things like that.

00:43:28.220 It doesn't have to be something that takes a year to figure out.

00:43:31.320 It's like, we know our black students or whatever group is hurting, and we're going to give

00:43:35.560 them things today, whether it's snacks, whether it's counseling, whether it's whatever.

00:43:39.700 But a part of that trust is to see an immediate reaction to what we are saying.

00:43:44.200 But food would be great.

00:43:45.180 We have food on the way.

00:43:48.640 Oh, good.

00:43:50.120 Oh, my God.

00:43:51.460 My God.

00:43:52.220 First of all, thank you, because we got this from National Reviews reporting.

00:43:56.020 Second of all, naps and food as reparations for having to express their grievances at Ilya?

00:44:03.000 What?

00:44:04.820 Yeah.

00:44:05.420 So I don't know anything about this dean, but maybe he's a bad guy.

00:44:10.260 Maybe he's just a coward.

00:44:11.240 But these people like him have invested a lot in their career, and they know once you

00:44:15.820 get in a situation like this and meetings like this, you can't possibly say the wrong

00:44:19.120 thing, because then you'll be in the firing line next, and you'll be destroyed.

00:44:23.620 But the right thing to do is just say no.

00:44:26.260 You know, you're an adult.

00:44:28.040 We're all adults here.

00:44:29.380 We favor open speech.

00:44:30.980 If you're upset about it, talk to him about it.

00:44:33.760 You know, write a letter to the newspaper, express yourself in class, whatever.

00:44:38.860 But we're not going to fire someone over this.

00:44:42.000 And most people don't have this kind of intestinal fortitude.

00:44:45.620 But I remember meeting with Thomas Sowell and, you know, the great conservative Stanford

00:44:50.280 economist, African-American, of course.

00:44:53.100 And he dealt with, like, no kidding, racial discrimination in the course of his life.

00:44:59.020 You know, he's in his 80s now.

00:45:00.700 And his attitude always was, if you're looking down on me because I'm black, F you.

00:45:07.840 Too bad for you.

00:45:09.340 It doesn't affect me.

00:45:10.820 You know, I'm not, I don't need naps.

00:45:13.220 I don't need to cry because you're an idiot and an ignoramus.

00:45:16.360 And that kind of, there's just, that sort of attitude is on the wane, obviously, in this

00:45:22.780 country.

00:45:23.280 And instead, you have this kind of childishness that's encouraged and people expect to get

00:45:31.660 coddled.

00:45:33.320 So it wasn't just this moment.

00:45:35.140 You mentioned the other where apparently they're in tears.

00:45:38.880 The students are in tears at Georgetown.

00:45:40.520 I mean, honestly, having practiced law for 10 years, they need to toughen up.

00:45:44.100 They need to, I mean, obviously, I haven't been the victim of racism in that way, but

00:45:48.920 I certainly have been the victim of sexism.

00:45:51.480 And they're going to see a whole lot more of it when they get out there as lawyers.

00:45:54.320 They're going to see even way, way worse things than sexism and racism.

00:45:57.840 And you've got to toughen up.

00:45:59.280 You've got to function in the face of adversity, even dark, dark adversity.

00:46:03.100 I mean, bad, bad things happen to very innocent clients.

00:46:06.220 And you're the one who has to advocate for them.

00:46:08.200 And you don't get a cry room.

00:46:10.400 Here's soundbite, too.

00:46:11.260 It is really, really hard to walk out of class or a meeting in tears.

00:46:18.420 And you should always have a place on campus where you can go and feel like you're not

00:46:22.900 then also under people's eyes and observation.

00:46:26.180 Maybe you don't want to answer a question of what's going on or what's wrong.

00:46:29.560 And if you're finding that you're not getting the person you want to talk to or not getting

00:46:34.900 the space that you need, reach out to me any time, any time.

00:46:40.280 So we will find you space.

00:46:41.620 Oh, my Lord, Rich, I can't, I can't.

00:46:45.140 Space is one of those words also.

00:46:46.740 This last time, I hate the word space.

00:46:48.480 I never would have thought I hated the word space.

00:46:50.760 I'm sure the judges are going to give them cry spaces, too.

00:46:53.960 What's that?

00:46:54.700 I'm sure the judges they appear before are going to give them cry spaces, too.

00:46:57.620 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:46:58.440 Yeah, lawyering is all about space.

00:47:01.060 Yeah, I mean, it's just it's indulging childishness.

00:47:04.640 And this is the way you speak to first graders.

00:47:06.840 And there was what is the school?

00:47:10.560 Do you see this earlier this week, Megan?

00:47:12.380 Someone had took a picture of the sign.

00:47:16.940 I think maybe the University of Boulder or something that if you or someone, you know,

00:47:21.620 encounters free speech that upsets you, hear your hear your recourses.

00:47:26.300 And they're like 17 numbers and 17 offices you could call because you're upset.

00:47:32.360 You heard something you disagree with.

00:47:34.760 How can I get my number on that list?

00:47:37.300 I need my number to be on there.

00:47:39.920 Rich, stand by.

00:47:41.460 Squeeze in a quick break.

00:47:42.500 Come back with so much more.

00:47:43.860 Don't leave.

00:47:50.600 Just to continue with the Georgetown thing for a minute, Rich, the school has situational

00:47:57.260 ethics.

00:47:57.880 You won't be surprised to hear because a couple of years ago, there's this woman, Professor

00:48:02.920 Carol Christine Fair.

00:48:04.300 This is just 2018 when Brett Kavanaugh was going through the confirmation process and she

00:48:11.660 expressed her views on him and said as follows.

00:48:15.640 Hold on.

00:48:16.100 Stand by.

00:48:16.720 Pulling it up.

00:48:17.160 Um, OK.

00:48:19.080 Look at this chorus of entitled white men justifying a serial rapists irrigated entitlement, she

00:48:27.020 wrote after calling Kavanaugh a rapist and a perjurer.

00:48:29.620 All of them, quote, deserve miserable deaths while feminists laugh as they take their last

00:48:35.340 gasps, she wrote.

00:48:37.160 Bonus, she continued.

00:48:38.620 We castrate their corpses and feed them to swine.

00:48:41.720 Yes, swine.

00:48:44.840 She called the GOP a fucking death cult and also filthy swine.

00:48:50.220 The filthy swine, I guess, is going to eat the dead corpses of the Brett Kavanaugh supporters.

00:48:55.060 And guess who still has a job at Georgetown?

00:48:58.380 Yes, of course, you guessed it.

00:49:00.140 The professor Fair.

00:49:01.620 Yeah, hats off to Barry Weiss.

00:49:04.560 She she unearthed this one and column she wrote.

00:49:07.860 I will say credit to this professor.

00:49:10.300 Barry Weiss called her and she wasn't aware of the Ilya Shapiro thing.

00:49:14.680 She said, I don't know anything about that, but I support free speech and I recommend you

00:49:19.100 get in touch with a group called FIRE, of course, which is devoted to promoting and protecting

00:49:23.920 free speech on campus.

00:49:25.200 Yeah, she said, I support what they do.

00:49:26.780 So I at least give credit to this woman to favoring economic academic freedom, which

00:49:32.600 she's benefited from, because, again, if we had some consistent standard, she'd be on

00:49:37.260 the firing line on the verge of being fired, too.

00:49:39.980 And I mean, those obviously are really stupid and poisonous tweets.

00:49:45.360 I have no idea, you know, of her academic work.

00:49:48.000 Maybe she's, you know, a brilliant specialist in some field and students are benefiting from

00:49:52.460 her.

00:49:52.740 But, you know, I disagree with it.

00:49:54.600 But I can tell you why I disagree with it.

00:49:57.340 I'm not going to collapse in a puddle of tears and neither should anyone else.

00:50:01.840 Exactly right.

00:50:02.720 So she's got some controversial views.

00:50:04.320 Most of them do.

00:50:05.340 It's just if they're left leaning, they're permitted.

00:50:07.800 And if they're not, they're not, you know.

00:50:10.120 And does anybody think Whoopi, for that matter, would still have a job at all if she were not

00:50:15.680 a woman, a woman of color and a woman of color who is a leftist?

00:50:20.160 Yeah, it's a controversial view, a wrong view, an erroneous and radioactive view about the

00:50:26.680 Holocaust for anyone who is on the right side of the spectrum would be instant career

00:50:32.700 killer and you'd be socially ostracized.

00:50:36.360 And that would be it.

00:50:37.580 And she, of course, isn't.

00:50:40.200 So different rules apply, which is a common theme of this conversation.

00:50:44.040 And unfortunately, a common theme of like, you know, the last 10 years or more of our national

00:50:48.160 life.

00:50:48.920 Well, by the way, I mean, I love the view.

00:50:50.400 It's like, OK, an ABC playing holier than thou, like she must be suspended.

00:50:54.140 The same organization that proudly aired Joy Behar's blackface photo in 2016.

00:50:58.980 And nobody thought to stop and say, well, should we put that up on the board?

00:51:01.800 Right.

00:51:02.480 And then that then those same ladies expressed, you know, shock and horror when I said, hey,

00:51:08.220 you know, people used to wear this and it wasn't such a big deal.

00:51:10.660 Right.

00:51:10.880 It's like, well, you you you're shocked and horrified.

00:51:13.500 You just put a picture of Joy Behar in blackface on the air and no one stopped to say don't

00:51:19.120 do that.

00:51:19.540 So spare me the holier than thou attitude.

00:51:22.400 OK, let's move on, because in the same way that, you know, Whoopi Goldberg can't shake

00:51:27.960 her intersectional definition of racism and race, Joe Biden doesn't seem to be able to

00:51:34.400 shake his definition of what's normal in an era of covid in which the numbers are thankfully

00:51:41.140 getting down to incredibly low in terms of the case numbers.

00:51:44.040 They fall on like ninety five percent in New York City, which was once ground zero in covid

00:51:48.760 and so on.

00:51:49.280 And it seems very, very tough now for those in power in these blue states and cities,

00:51:54.360 with just a couple of exceptions, to admit that normalcy is either back or almost back

00:52:01.620 and it's time to embrace it, not eschew it.

00:52:04.460 Why is that?

00:52:06.180 Well, I think the ice is cracking here, actually.

00:52:08.680 Leanna Nguyen, former president of Planned Parenthood, that didn't get that that organization

00:52:13.580 is all about abortion.

00:52:14.600 So she got fired and now has become a covid expert and alarmist on CNN.

00:52:19.040 And she was just on saying, I think these restrictions need to go.

00:52:23.460 Scott Gottlieb, who I respect a lot, you know, who's who's been into these mitigation measures

00:52:28.040 is now saying, you know, people aren't going to tolerate them for others.

00:52:31.240 There's another doctor saying the same thing on masking at schools.

00:52:34.740 Clearly, the ice is broken.

00:52:35.980 You've had big pieces in The Atlantic, The Washington Post, NPR, New York Times, left wing

00:52:40.860 New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg saying that they need to go and they don't make sense

00:52:44.860 anymore.

00:52:45.200 So the lagging indicator, you're right, is the politicians and blue jurisdictions and Joe Biden.

00:52:51.480 And just for me, it seems obvious Biden needs to hit a reset button somewhere.

00:52:56.780 That's conventional wisdom now.

00:52:59.160 And he needs to play against type a little bit and and kind of shake people and have them say,

00:53:04.420 oh, that's kind of interesting.

00:53:05.620 You know, why is he doing or saying that?

00:53:07.460 And clearly, to me, this is just the obvious one to say, look, we're going to have to live

00:53:12.120 with this.

00:53:12.600 It's not going away.

00:53:14.320 We need to embrace normality.

00:53:17.940 And the most important symbol of that is masks and lift the mask on federal travel, change

00:53:24.660 the CDC guidance, which is totally unscientific and out of whack on masking kids at schools.

00:53:31.580 That that would be a huge step.

00:53:34.300 And Biden kind of thinks he's he is in favor of normality because I have said, you know,

00:53:38.600 various times, including when the Omicron surge started.

00:53:41.420 Well, let's not panic.

00:53:42.620 But that's because they swim in this progressive sea.

00:53:46.520 And you have, you know, the most alarmist people saying, well, even Biden's betraying this.

00:53:50.820 Even Biden's the equivalent of Ron DeSantis.

00:53:52.620 But he hasn't gone nearly far enough down this path.

00:53:57.200 And to me, it seems like a no brainer.

00:53:59.460 And maybe he'll actually, you know, as this the change in the intellectual climate around

00:54:03.520 this continues, maybe he'll actually get there.

00:54:06.520 That Monmouth poll showed that 70 percent of the American people would would like to move

00:54:11.100 on.

00:54:11.320 They believe that covid is here to stay, but they believe we need to get on with our lives.

00:54:15.500 That includes Democrats.

00:54:16.840 It includes it was something like 98 percent of Republicans, something very high on the GOP side,

00:54:21.100 most independents and many Democrats.

00:54:24.300 One of the things that though that I think it was 53 percent of those poll did not want

00:54:28.260 to let go of is masks.

00:54:30.720 Now, that number has been steadily going down in the Monmouth polling.

00:54:33.020 It's much lower now than it was.

00:54:35.060 But as a as a hardcore anti masker, I'm not an anti vaxxer, but I'm an anti masker.

00:54:40.540 I know I've heard you describe yourself as sort of moderate on that issue.

00:54:43.580 I'm against you.

00:54:45.180 My hardcore.

00:54:46.660 I got to give you credit.

00:54:48.100 You know, you should read some of your your tweets about about this or statements about

00:54:51.760 this.

00:54:52.160 You're right.

00:54:52.680 I didn't look into it very much because that particularly bother me or anyone in my

00:54:57.260 family.

00:54:57.620 But when the the Yunkin controversy really started going, when he issued the executive

00:55:02.700 order of giving parents a choice, I looked into it more.

00:55:05.540 And there's zero case.

00:55:06.500 There is zero case for masking young kids, especially total theater.

00:55:11.800 And the idea that one indications are kids don't transmit it and thank God aren't as

00:55:19.040 susceptible to getting seriously ill from it.

00:55:22.360 But the idea that you can sit in a classroom for six hours with someone who has COVID and

00:55:28.180 this little cloth mask that you're probably not wearing properly, that you're taking on

00:55:32.180 and off, that you're getting wet and degrading.

00:55:34.660 That's going to protect you is crazy.

00:55:37.020 It's just crazy.

00:55:38.040 And the only reason to do it is because masks have become this totem of protection and

00:55:43.840 righteousness over and beyond any of the facts or any of the science behind it.

00:55:49.940 And this has been just a key part of the dynamic of the debate during this whole pandemic.

00:55:54.860 There's science, which has been uncertain, which has gone back and forth.

00:55:59.040 You get one study says this, another study says that.

00:56:02.180 And then you have the conventional wisdom, which is imposed on top of this science and

00:56:08.720 doesn't necessarily always accord with it and is more certain and has kind of a religious

00:56:13.820 fervor to it that the science doesn't support.

00:56:17.020 And that's why, you know, I'm sure you've already talked a lot about Joe Rogan, but that's

00:56:21.780 why someone like a voice like Rogan is important or a voice like yours on mask.

00:56:25.960 You know, you're probably lucky not to get suspended by Twitter.

00:56:28.580 You know, saying that that masks were wrong or it didn't work, but it's important to

00:56:32.900 be able to to for people to test this conventional wisdom and point out areas where they think

00:56:38.720 it's flawed.

00:56:39.460 And a lot of that kind of thinking, heterodox thinking has been has been vindicated through

00:56:44.860 the pandemic.

00:56:45.640 So, again, this just goes to a common thing.

00:56:47.360 Debate is good.

00:56:48.620 Argument is good.

00:56:50.040 Things that I thought are crazy over the last 20 years are crazy during this pandemic.

00:56:54.420 I've come around on because that's what rational people do.

00:56:57.560 They consider views that they might not agree with.

00:57:00.740 They test their own views against those counter views and they might change their their minds.

00:57:06.100 And that that's called being a human being in a free society.

00:57:09.220 I mean, I would love to believe that's true.

00:57:11.160 And I start to see the left fracturing in a way that's promising to me.

00:57:15.500 But then I hear the prophet Fauci on The Daily the other day.

00:57:19.040 And Mark Michael Barbaro was giving him some good questions.

00:57:22.500 He really was.

00:57:23.500 And I mean, Fauci sounded almost like it was March of 2020.

00:57:27.780 We're not there yet.

00:57:29.520 Maybe someday.

00:57:30.720 Not yet.

00:57:31.780 Not with twenty two hundred people dying a day.

00:57:34.300 No, it's not time to to undo any of the mitigation measures, which, of course, you know, just

00:57:39.520 saying that we don't even know how what percentage of those people.

00:57:42.200 Right.

00:57:42.300 Like what number of those are actually dying from covid the hospitals thus far have refused

00:57:49.340 to to tally it up and divvy it up with only a couple of exceptions.

00:57:53.120 And most of those, like the one in New York, had said it's basically 50 50, you know, half

00:57:58.840 dying with and half dying of covid.

00:58:01.100 So you can cut a lot of these numbers by, you know, of a large margin.

00:58:05.680 Anyway, my point is he won't admit reality rich and he's their God.

00:58:09.820 He's the one, the people we need to convince to get back to normal.

00:58:14.320 Listen to.

00:58:15.620 Yeah.

00:58:16.160 So so maybe I should revise and extend my remarks on mass being the most important symbol.

00:58:21.060 Fauci actually may be the most important symbol.

00:58:23.460 And if Biden would fire him or not even fire him, but just say, you know, look, Anthony,

00:58:28.320 go do your you have this important job at the NIH.

00:58:31.240 Right.

00:58:31.520 And before you were a world celebrity that accepted every single interview, as far as I

00:58:36.480 can tell, I don't know how he does any day work.

00:58:39.220 You know, unless it's not left wing media on TV and podcasts and everywhere.

00:58:43.280 Just go.

00:58:43.840 You don't go do your NIH thing.

00:58:45.700 You're no longer the chief spokesman or symbol of this pandemic.

00:58:49.020 That would also be a really important symbol.

00:58:51.480 And one says Fauci is doing his job.

00:58:53.360 He's a public health expert.

00:58:54.820 All he cares about is public health.

00:58:57.600 Right.

00:58:58.080 He doesn't he doesn't.

00:58:59.100 He's even admitted this at times.

00:59:00.440 He doesn't consider the other factors.

00:59:02.060 That's that's not his bailiwick.

00:59:03.680 But but only covid health, only covid health, not public health, only covid health.

00:59:08.020 He doesn't think about the people committing suicide and the and the drug addictions and

00:59:11.940 the overdoses.

00:59:12.700 None of that counts for him.

00:59:13.880 Only those who die from covid or with covid matter to him.

00:59:17.560 Right.

00:59:18.120 Yeah.

00:59:18.680 And this is another thing.

00:59:19.680 People who've been saying this all along that actually.

00:59:21.740 OK, covid's serious.

00:59:23.320 Let's take it seriously.

00:59:23.960 But there are these other things that matter, you know, jobs matter to people and not just

00:59:28.620 economically, their their psychological well-being is caught up on it in it.

00:59:33.020 Interactions with human beings matter.

00:59:35.220 Right.

00:59:35.660 Because that we're unhappy if we're isolated.

00:59:38.600 And if we have an addiction problem or mental health problem, it makes it even worse.

00:59:43.240 The people have said those things for about two years were smeared as being part of a death

00:59:49.160 cult like that Georgetown professor quoting quoting a little bit.

00:59:53.000 When they actually had the more holistic view of the cost and the benefits that always should

01:00:00.160 have factored in these decisions and haven't for a long time and large part because of

01:00:05.820 Fauciism and the way the media and social media companies have globbed on to Fauciism as

01:00:11.720 the only perspective you can have on a pandemic and how to respond to it.

01:00:16.560 When I heard him on The Daily, when I've heard him in other interviews, when I what was the

01:00:20.240 magazine that did the big Fauci spread, made him like like Rihanna, all I could think was he's

01:00:27.080 enjoying being a star.

01:00:29.900 He's he's enjoying his time in the limelight too much.

01:00:34.820 It's it's compromised him.

01:00:37.200 I mean, I don't trust Fauci anyway, and he's been wrong about so many things and he's lied

01:00:41.220 to us and we know all of that and he may have helped start this pandemic in an indirect

01:00:44.840 way by funding gain of function research over in that Wuhan lab that we have no proof led

01:00:49.980 to this direct virus, but certainly was leading to the study in a way that we believe may have

01:00:56.620 preceded this virus.

01:00:57.460 If you think it started in a lab like I do.

01:00:58.980 Um, anyway, my point is, I he needs to be removed from the job because it's become too

01:01:06.000 important to him.

01:01:06.840 You can see he's enjoying how heady it is being interviewed by The New York Times.

01:01:10.720 He was loving it in a way that made my stomach turn a little.

01:01:15.080 Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

01:01:16.520 And look, it's human, right?

01:01:18.900 I mean, we like attention.

01:01:20.760 We like prestige.

01:01:22.280 We like feeling important.

01:01:23.680 That's just that's just part of human nature.

01:01:25.780 So I don't blame him necessarily, but it's for the people running the government and

01:01:30.320 trying to keep people in the right lanes and get the balance right.

01:01:33.580 It's up to those people to to take them off off his pedestal.

01:01:37.740 And again, he has a really important job at NIH and they, you know, the gain of function

01:01:41.780 research, they may have really messed that up.

01:01:43.980 Certainly, he was either dishonest or was trying to hide the ball from the public on that, which

01:01:48.480 is unforgivable.

01:01:50.380 But but he had a substantial job before he became this this covid celebrity.

01:01:57.280 Go back and do that job.

01:01:58.540 Exactly.

01:01:59.100 Enjoy it.

01:01:59.480 Or now he wants billions of dollars to create new vaccines for viruses he hasn't yet unleashed

01:02:04.000 upon us.

01:02:04.540 No, just kidding.

01:02:05.120 I have no evidence he did.

01:02:06.820 I already explained that.

01:02:07.820 But my point is he now he wants all this money to go do a different thing.

01:02:11.520 Great.

01:02:12.060 Go do that.

01:02:12.820 Good luck.

01:02:13.400 Godspeed.

01:02:14.220 Leave us alone now on these crazy measures because he will not take his foot off the gas.

01:02:18.140 And it's going to take a strong leader to ignore his advice.

01:02:22.040 And we don't have that strong leader right now.

01:02:23.980 And actually, Rich, that's my next subject, because the polls reflect the country feels

01:02:29.280 as I do, that we don't have that strong leader.

01:02:31.600 And you look at the numbers, latest numbers on on Joe Biden.

01:02:34.740 There was a poll out of Florida, Suffolk University, USA Today.

01:02:39.420 And Florida is obviously critically important in presidential elections.

01:02:42.940 Thirty nine percent of respondents approve of the job.

01:02:45.520 Biden's doing 53 percent disapprove, 57 disapprove of the job he's doing on the economy.

01:02:51.500 And 58 to 28 are the numbers of a 30 point margin.

01:02:56.960 Florida voters believe the nation is on the wrong track.

01:03:01.120 What do you make of it?

01:03:01.660 Does it I know you watch the polls.

01:03:03.160 Does it jive with the other polls you've been keeping your eyes on?

01:03:06.220 I mean, that's that's what you see everywhere.

01:03:08.420 There are various states nationally, you know, about 40 percent approval, which is just a debacle.

01:03:16.400 And some of it has to do with conditions that aren't entirely in his control.

01:03:20.520 Right.

01:03:20.980 He didn't create the Omicron surge, which accounts mostly for this losing three three hundred thousand

01:03:28.860 jobs in the last monthly report here that we just got this this morning.

01:03:33.540 Inflation, not entirely in his control.

01:03:35.960 Their program made it worse.

01:03:38.140 But, you know, if they're two percent inflation and no covid, he'd still be underwater.

01:03:43.740 But he'd probably be, you know, like forty seven, forty eight, like a more survivable number.

01:03:48.600 But but they but they're just in a deluge number.

01:03:51.160 I mean, they're going to get totally wiped out in the in the fall because not only have

01:03:56.140 conditions been bad, his performance has been bad.

01:03:58.860 He's been incompetent and focused on things that the public is just not very interested in.

01:04:03.680 You know, Democrats point out how the individual pieces of Build Back Better pull out well.

01:04:09.780 But is anyone out there really on the edge of their seats just waiting for Build Back Better to pass?

01:04:14.160 No.

01:04:15.100 What do people want?

01:04:16.040 They want the virus to go away or at least to a return to normality.

01:04:19.840 And they want inflation under control and the job market to heal, you know, and he should

01:04:25.720 be focusing on those sort of things every day, even if it's just symbolic measures.

01:04:30.580 But instead, he's been, you know, led around by from the nose by by the left.

01:04:35.920 You know, he campaigned as someone who's going to be able to work with kind of the Joe Mansions

01:04:38.920 of the world.

01:04:39.800 And he's been much more over and kind of the Elizabeth Warren AOC territory.

01:04:45.960 And he's paid a price.

01:04:47.260 A hundred percent.

01:04:48.320 The poll shows that Biden would lose Florida if the election were today.

01:04:54.400 And he's even trailing a hypothetical Democratic primary to Hillary Clinton, Rich.

01:05:01.360 That's how bad it's gotten.

01:05:05.080 What do you think of it?

01:05:06.120 I mean, do you think there's any way?

01:05:07.880 Because I mean, this is what everybody asks me, right?

01:05:09.840 When I'm in my civilian clothes and not in front of the camera.

01:05:12.720 Um, whether who's going to run, like who will be the Democratic team, because most people

01:05:18.060 don't think there's any way he can make it.

01:05:19.920 And they know the Democrats can't run Kamala Harris because it's just like running nobody.

01:05:24.060 There's no chance she can win.

01:05:26.500 Yeah, I can't.

01:05:28.320 I can't see Hillary.

01:05:29.420 I mean, I'm sure she's thinking about it.

01:05:30.980 And there'll be, you know, she'll have some confidence and, and, you know, make a decision

01:05:36.380 whether to go or not.

01:05:37.440 And she's not going to go.

01:05:38.220 It's just, there's no way that's going to happen.

01:05:40.160 But one of the more stunning poll results last couple of weeks is I think it was only

01:05:44.900 28% of people want him to run again, you know, and I think it was a majority of Democrats

01:05:52.320 don't want him to run again.

01:05:53.980 So what, what did they get?

01:05:55.740 You know, if it's not him, well, usually you look to the veep, you're right.

01:05:58.940 That would be a debacle.

01:06:00.400 She pours, polls more poorly than he does.

01:06:03.580 And then, you know, Pete Buttigieg just doesn't feel very realistic.

01:06:06.600 You know, you could have some governors like a Jared Polis out in Colorado, relatively

01:06:09.840 moderate Democrat that might be really good for the party.

01:06:13.200 Eric Adams, you know, we'll see, uh, hasn't been encouraging so far in New York, but someone

01:06:17.000 who's kind of interesting, um, someone who, uh, gets on a, on the, um, conservative side

01:06:23.800 of a cultural issue.

01:06:24.760 Polis has kind of done it on the COVID stuff, which has a cultural resonance.

01:06:28.540 Eric Adams obviously did it in crime, at least when he was campaigning.

01:06:32.680 That's what the, that's what the Democrats need.

01:06:35.380 Um, instead kind of doubling down on the culture stuff, which Kamala Harris,

01:06:39.760 represents would, would be a disaster for them.

01:06:42.580 And, um, they could easily lose to a third, a third time around for Donald Trump in 2024

01:06:48.700 if they do that.

01:06:49.820 That's, that's exactly right.

01:06:51.080 But here's, what's crazy.

01:06:51.920 So that you would expect that more Democrats like Polis would run from some of these COVID

01:06:55.920 policies at this point, you know, given the polling and understanding how angry parents

01:06:59.800 are and having seen what happened in New Jersey, by the way, the, the New Jersey governor

01:07:03.280 is starting to be more like, we need to get back more to the normal because unlike all

01:07:07.120 these other Democrats, he lived it, he almost lost this job that should have been totally

01:07:10.860 secure for him.

01:07:12.280 Um, and then we saw it in Virginia, of course, with Youngkin.

01:07:15.440 So, but I'm surprised we're not seeing more of them say, okay, how many months are we right

01:07:21.080 from the next election?

01:07:22.100 I need to get things right on COVID.

01:07:25.180 No matter what I said in the past, I can still make it unclear enough, at least to convince

01:07:30.920 my more centrist Democrats that I've been on the side of reason all along.

01:07:35.980 Yeah.

01:07:36.620 Yeah.

01:07:36.820 To just try to take the edge off of it.

01:07:38.660 And again, another thing that Biden could do, you know, he said the right things about

01:07:42.540 keeping the schools open, but just hammer Randy Weingarten, you know, the head of the

01:07:47.800 teachers union.

01:07:48.860 We need you to be on board with this.

01:07:50.780 And if you're not, there's going to be hell to pay, you know, um, something that's strong,

01:07:55.640 you know, sister soldiers, the greatest cliche, but something like that, that's on the side

01:08:00.240 of return to normalcy is like really, really important for Biden and really important for

01:08:05.740 all these blue state Democrats who have, have been most restrictionist on COVID.

01:08:12.500 Um, that that's, that's what I would tell them, but they don't, they don't listen to me.

01:08:17.040 They don't.

01:08:17.400 Well, that that's their mistake because the editors is amazing and national review is a

01:08:21.700 treasure.

01:08:22.360 Uh, great to have you, Rich.

01:08:23.500 Thanks for coming on.

01:08:24.120 Thanks, Megan.

01:08:24.620 Appreciate it.

01:08:25.160 Have a great day coming up.

01:08:26.860 We are covering the Canadian truckers freedom protest over vaccine mandates.

01:08:30.620 And how about Justin Trudeau?

01:08:32.040 Mr.

01:08:32.300 I've worn blackface so many times.

01:08:33.600 I can't remember calling them all racists based on what do you believe the nerve?

01:08:43.380 The breaking news continues this time.

01:08:45.440 It's along the U S Canadian border where there is a new and ongoing standoff happening right

01:08:51.060 now between authorities and truckers.

01:08:53.160 As we've been covering, the truckers are ticked off about vaccine mandates.

01:08:58.040 Uh, joining me now to discuss all of it is Ezra Levant, founder of rebel news, a conservative

01:09:02.360 media outlet in Canada.

01:09:04.040 Uh, he's been covering all the protests.

01:09:06.280 Welcome Ezra.

01:09:06.940 Thank you so much for being here.

01:09:08.020 Well, thanks very much.

01:09:09.160 I'm in the warmth of our studio in Toronto, but we have two reporters embedded in the blockade

01:09:15.280 at the Alberta, Montana border.

01:09:17.240 There's about 500 truckers there who are just parking their big rigs, blocking that border

01:09:24.020 crossing.

01:09:24.460 And a group of farmers has joined them bringing their large farm equipment.

01:09:29.340 Yesterday, the RCMP, that's our Mounties tried to shoo them away, but you can't shoo away

01:09:35.500 500 big guys and their trucks.

01:09:38.200 The Mounties retreated.

01:09:40.100 I think we're on day four of the blockade now.

01:09:42.440 Wow.

01:09:43.780 It's amazing because I didn't know that it was meant to be sort of this long, but it

01:09:48.460 seems like it's gathered a lot of grassroots support and it's crossed over from just about

01:09:53.780 trucking to a lot more.

01:09:56.240 Yeah.

01:09:56.780 I mean, remember Robert Peel's principles of policing.

01:09:59.960 He was the great British police chief who really taught us that in a democracy, police

01:10:06.160 need the consent of the people.

01:10:07.840 If you're imposing laws that people think are unjust, if you're doing it in a capricious

01:10:14.600 way, you're simply not going to have the support of the citizens unless you're a police

01:10:18.880 state, you won't be able to do it.

01:10:20.560 And I think that that's really come into play here.

01:10:23.280 You have our version of the FBI, our Mounties are a federal police force that don't have the

01:10:29.220 support of the people on the ground who are enforcing laws that were not passed to be

01:10:34.840 criminal laws or things like that.

01:10:36.800 They're public health orders with very little science behind them.

01:10:40.860 I mean, seriously, a vaccine mandate for a long haul trucker, other than someone who

01:10:45.140 works in a lighthouse, I can't think of anything more isolated.

01:10:48.660 Why are you forcing them to get a jab?

01:10:50.960 So I think that a lot of people said, you know what, we've had enough of this.

01:10:55.600 And I think Canadians are generally pretty respectful of police and of authority.

01:11:00.020 But I think these truckers, there's an independent spirit of truckers, and especially in the

01:11:04.480 prairies in Canada.

01:11:05.940 And I think this is the line in the sand.

01:11:07.860 And incredibly, yesterday, there was this physical showdown and the Mounties turned tail and left.

01:11:14.860 Now, they're not done.

01:11:15.480 They blockaded the whole village.

01:11:17.460 It's a little village right on the border called Coots, Alberta.

01:11:20.780 There's 500 men sleeping in their trucks.

01:11:23.320 Like, there's not enough hotels for them.

01:11:24.760 The police have blockaded all the entrances to the village.

01:11:28.460 And it really is a standoff.

01:11:30.820 We've got two reporters in there, and we've crowdfunded a lawyer to help represent the truckers

01:11:36.260 to de-escalate things, to negotiate with the cops.

01:11:39.040 And we're on day four of that whole thing.

01:11:41.160 Why there?

01:11:43.600 Well, it's just one of the border crossings.

01:11:45.580 Remember, this vaccine mandate affects people going back and forth with Canada.

01:11:50.420 And, you know, Canada is a very large country, the second largest country in the world, but

01:11:55.000 about 90% of our population lives within an hour of the U.S. border.

01:11:58.980 So it really is the longest undefended border in the world.

01:12:02.540 Our two countries couldn't be more similar, especially those border states and the border

01:12:06.580 provinces.

01:12:07.560 You really wouldn't even know you're in the other country if you didn't see the street

01:12:11.680 signs.

01:12:12.540 So there's so much cross-border traffic.

01:12:14.760 And suddenly, two years into this, the same truckers who kept us fed, brought us our personal

01:12:21.020 protection equipment, you know, the truckers who we all relied on for two years, suddenly

01:12:26.180 we're punishing them.

01:12:27.260 Suddenly they're not good enough.

01:12:28.840 Suddenly they're dirty people who need to be banned.

01:12:31.820 So it's so abusive.

01:12:34.340 They're working people who have not had the luxury of, you know, working from home on Zoom.

01:12:40.380 You know, they have borne the brunt of everything, and we're turning on them now.

01:12:44.220 I think people have said enough.

01:12:45.980 They're independent, spirited people.

01:12:48.380 Alberta and Montana are very freedom-oriented places.

01:12:52.320 So it's the perfect storm.

01:12:53.360 And speaking of storms, it's minus 20 degrees centigrade out there.

01:12:56.380 It's brutal.

01:12:57.560 So how are you even going to chew 500 guys out of there and their big rigs?

01:13:01.840 Like a tow truck, a regular tow truck can't move some of these massive rigs.

01:13:06.340 I don't even know what the police are going to do.

01:13:08.620 Right.

01:13:08.900 And meanwhile, they can't get a meeting with Justin Trudeau, who has tucked tail and run.

01:13:12.760 We don't know where he is.

01:13:14.260 He's now saying he has COVID, which is convenient and thus cannot meet.

01:13:18.780 But he's made very clear on the record he has no desire to meet with any of these truckers.

01:13:22.900 To talk about this vaccine mandate, just for clarity's sake, it forces unvaccinated drivers

01:13:27.200 in Canada to observe a two-week quarantine and a COVID test before crossing into Canada

01:13:33.900 from the United States.

01:13:35.100 So if you're unvaccinated and you're Canadian or driving a truck, you can't deliver goods

01:13:38.960 to the United States and then come back into Canada.

01:13:41.880 And then the U.S. joined a week after that mandate was passed and said, yeah, if you're

01:13:47.160 not a U.S. citizen, you can't enter our nation at the Canadian border without showing us a

01:13:53.020 vaccination card.

01:13:54.140 So Americans can go up and come back, but Canadians cannot if they're unvaccinated.

01:14:00.400 You know, and talk about hurting the supply chain.

01:14:02.780 I mean, what is what is that word supply chain means?

01:14:05.460 Well, it's how goods get to you from where they started.

01:14:09.220 I mean, it involves ships, it involves trains, but pretty much the last leg of any journey

01:14:14.300 for any produce, anything in a retail store comes by truck.

01:14:18.680 If odds are, if it's a thing, it was on a truck.

01:14:21.500 So imagine wiping out 10, 20, 30 percent of all trucking because you're trying to I mean,

01:14:28.360 this is not a public health rationale here.

01:14:30.480 This is about obedience and compliance.

01:14:33.820 And I think you mentioned that Trudeau won't even meet with them.

01:14:36.640 I think Trudeau wants to demonize these people to use them as a foil.

01:14:40.560 They're grubby, working class, blue collar people who aren't fancy and they're the enemies.

01:14:45.560 He's trying to whip up this fear that they're violent.

01:14:48.400 He's called them racist.

01:14:50.860 You know, by the way, a lot of truckers in Canada are visible minorities.

01:14:53.760 There's a lot of large Sikh community in trucking.

01:14:56.200 I'd say probably 20 or 30 percent of all truckers and indigenous people.

01:14:59.920 Like, it's so weird that he's calling them racist.

01:15:02.040 That's sort of his go to card.

01:15:04.000 Yes.

01:15:04.380 He's calling them violent.

01:15:05.120 He's trying to paint them as like January 6 rioters or something.

01:15:08.500 They're not.

01:15:08.960 Yes.

01:15:09.420 He's only got that one card.

01:15:10.860 He he calls everybody names.

01:15:12.380 If you're not fully in support of LGBT, TQ, ABC, FYI, I have no idea.

01:15:18.420 Then you're not as woke as Justin and therefore you are to be judged.

01:15:21.400 Here he is the other day for the viewers who haven't yet heard it.

01:15:23.940 It's really a despicable soundbite.

01:15:25.640 And it's based on nothing as far as we can see.

01:15:28.520 Justin Trudeau on the truckers.

01:15:30.940 I have attended protests and rallies in the past when I agreed with the goals, when I supported

01:15:38.360 the people expressing their concerns and their issues.

01:15:41.740 Black Lives Matter is an excellent example of that.

01:15:44.640 But I have also chosen to not go anywhere near protests that have expressed hateful rhetoric,

01:15:51.280 violence towards fellow citizens.

01:15:55.880 OK, so we look, I got to tell you that we look for the evidence.

01:15:58.560 I'm sorry.

01:15:59.500 No, I was just going to say we look for the evidence.

01:16:01.260 This is what we found.

01:16:03.100 Someone had a Canadian flag with a swastika on it.

01:16:05.760 Well, that's not good.

01:16:07.420 That would be the entirety of the evidence that these are a bunch of racists.

01:16:11.180 So he's dismissing thousands.

01:16:13.440 I mean, today it's 500 trucks, but he's dismissing thousands of people who are out there protesting

01:16:18.200 as racists because of one guy with a flag.

01:16:23.140 That's not going to work.

01:16:25.620 And he also said the word violence, which is a whole other thing.

01:16:29.160 And I should tell you, I was in Ottawa for the first two days of that big trucker convoy there.

01:16:33.820 Police did not arrest a single person that did not allay a single charge.

01:16:37.600 So when Trudeau says there was violence, he's making that up out of whole cloth.

01:16:42.160 And by the way, even if there was one person or two people who were violence,

01:16:46.660 that does not discredit the other 50 to 100,000 truckers who did converge on Ottawa.

01:16:51.740 And the million people, literally a million, across Canada who came out to cheer the truckers

01:16:57.180 on at the side of the highway at overpasses.

01:16:59.780 This is the first massive, authentic, organic, natural uprising, maybe in Canadian history.

01:17:07.600 No political party backed this.

01:17:09.720 It was almost leaderless.

01:17:11.840 There was a GoFundMe for some organizers, but I'm not even sure if those funds are being released.

01:17:17.060 This was so real.

01:17:18.920 And because no one in the establishment had access to it, they were all sort of panicked,

01:17:23.880 even the leader of the Conservative Party opposition.

01:17:27.020 By the way, he was ousted, the leader of the Conservative Party in Canada was ousted today

01:17:32.600 in large part because he would not embrace this democratic, populist, conservative movement.

01:17:38.720 This trucker convoy has already had amazing impacts.

01:17:43.320 The province of Quebec was planning on taxing people who did not get the vaccine.

01:17:50.140 Yesterday, they withdrew that.

01:17:51.560 This trucking convoy has done more for freedom than any politician in Canada.

01:17:57.480 Last point, there's an Angus Reid poll, which is a large pollster in Canada,

01:18:01.920 showed that in the last week, polls have moved 15% more towards ending the lockdowns.

01:18:10.380 Well, what could that possibly be other than these truckers?

01:18:13.860 These truckers are saving the country.

01:18:16.980 It's what Orwell wrote in his book, 1984, if there's any hope, it lies with the proles.

01:18:22.340 God bless the truckers who are freeing the frozen North.

01:18:26.420 Right.

01:18:26.960 Wait, what's the name of the Conservative leader who was ousted?

01:18:30.960 His name is Aaron O'Toole.

01:18:33.000 And literally half an hour ago, he was voted out by the party because he would not meet with

01:18:39.440 the truckers.

01:18:40.300 He would not endorse them.

01:18:41.680 He was really a copycat of Justin Trudeau.

01:18:43.860 And the Conservative opposition in Canada just had a vote and booted him out.

01:18:49.180 And the trucking convoy was the last straw.

01:18:52.500 And let me say one quick thing, Megan.

01:18:53.960 In the United States, you have lockdownists and you have anti-lockdownists.

01:18:57.860 You've got your Ron DeSantis.

01:18:59.560 You've got Texas and South Dakota.

01:19:02.000 In Canada, every government of the federal government and every provincial government

01:19:06.220 and every opposition party are all in lockstep.

01:19:10.180 They're all lockdownists.

01:19:11.280 And so there's there's been no debate up here.

01:19:14.160 It's unanimous.

01:19:15.560 And that ended today when the pro lockdown conservative leader was kicked out from his

01:19:21.460 party.

01:19:21.820 Just so this convoy.

01:19:23.880 Can you believe it?

01:19:25.500 Right.

01:19:25.880 Truckers are freeing the country and may it spread.

01:19:29.240 May it spread to other countries.

01:19:30.960 I've seen little convoys in Australia, in the Netherlands.

01:19:34.400 I hope the truckers save us all.

01:19:36.560 It would be just so poetic if they did.

01:19:39.320 Freedom has a way of doing that, spreading when people have had a taste of it.

01:19:44.060 One of the other accusations that's been hurled by your liberal media against the truckers and

01:19:48.200 those supporting them is that they were out there with signs laced with obscenities.

01:19:53.380 So we looked and indeed we did find an example of that, except the person holding the sign

01:19:58.240 with obscenities is against the truckers and calling them bad names.

01:20:02.660 And this one particular trucker or at least a person in support of the truckers had the chance

01:20:09.260 to respond on camera.

01:20:10.980 It's a great clip.

01:20:11.960 We'll play it now.

01:20:12.680 So it says, F your white nationalist agenda.

01:20:18.360 I am not a white.

01:20:21.780 This is nothing to do about white.

01:20:23.920 This is nothing to do with truckers.

01:20:25.600 This is about freedom for all of Canadians.

01:20:28.360 You can be brown, black, white, blue, whatever color you want to be.

01:20:32.160 This is about freedom.

01:20:34.140 And Trudeau has no right to put us in this condition of mandates throughout the country.

01:20:38.860 Trudeau cannot go to school.

01:20:40.720 It's a terrible thing to do.

01:20:42.920 Amazing.

01:20:43.480 That's from you guys.

01:20:44.220 And it's a great clip that says so much, Ezra.

01:20:48.180 I want to I want to hug that guy.

01:20:50.620 You know what?

01:20:51.160 Like I said, a lot of Canadians who are truckers are of the Sikh religion, and they're obviously

01:20:56.920 not white nationalists.

01:20:58.680 And I love the language of liberty.

01:21:00.860 And I find that so reassuring.

01:21:03.140 And obviously, that guy sees through Justin Trudeau.

01:21:06.440 And what's funny is when Trudeau first hit the stage in 2015, when he was first elected,

01:21:10.420 he had this phrase, sunny ways.

01:21:13.120 He was the friendly, happy, light touch guy that everyone could feel affectionate towards.

01:21:18.960 Now he's turned dark and intolerant.

01:21:21.200 And I think he's lost a lot of his base.

01:21:23.320 A lot of people who were new Canadians, minorities, young women, etc., would have voted for Trudeau

01:21:28.160 in 2015.

01:21:29.060 It's amazing to me how many people in this convoy and the anti-mandate protests are his

01:21:35.200 former base.

01:21:36.000 Young women, women in general, I think are more skeptical of these vaccine mandates.

01:21:42.180 Minorities, including working class people like in the United States, are the least likely

01:21:46.780 to be back.

01:21:47.800 So I think Trudeau, he thinks this is a winner for him.

01:21:50.780 I don't know.

01:21:51.260 We'll see how it ends.

01:21:52.480 But I think he's detonating his support amongst traditional liberal supporters like that gentleman

01:21:57.840 you saw there.

01:21:58.960 What's happening?

01:21:59.620 I love the white nationalists.

01:22:01.720 And he's like, I am not a white, hello, keep looking.

01:22:08.780 Just give us like the thumbnail sketch of how bad it is in Canada right now.

01:22:13.640 I mean, we know about the trucker problem at the border, but how locked down is Canada

01:22:19.140 at the moment?

01:22:20.620 It's different province by province.

01:22:22.700 In Quebec, which has our second largest province, eight and a half million people, until about

01:22:27.300 two weeks ago, they actually had a nightly curfew from 10 p.m. till 5 a.m.

01:22:31.780 You could not go out.

01:22:33.000 It was like you were all children and mom wanted you home at 10.

01:22:36.020 So that's how extreme it is.

01:22:37.920 I'm in Ontario.

01:22:39.140 There's no dining in restaurants still.

01:22:41.840 Schools just opened about 10 days or two weeks ago.

01:22:45.560 They just opened in Ontario and the kids all are forced to wear masks, you know, and N or

01:22:52.260 K-95 masks, I think they're called, you know, so for a long time, all kids sports was shut

01:23:00.460 down, but professional sports was allowed.

01:23:03.220 It really is a very abusive.

01:23:05.360 It's slightly different province by province.

01:23:07.660 Like in America, it's different state by state.

01:23:10.140 But every single jurisdiction has some form of lockdown.

01:23:14.220 Let me throw one more.

01:23:14.920 I know we're almost out of time.

01:23:16.040 Let me tell you something crazy that happened just five days ago.

01:23:18.900 This convoy was rolling through Nova Scotia, one of our provinces.

01:23:23.080 The Nova Scotia government issued an emergency order under their health emergency laws, banning

01:23:29.340 anyone from standing alongside the road or on an overhead path, an overpass, but only if

01:23:37.540 they, quote, support the convoy.

01:23:39.580 That's literally in the health order.

01:23:41.240 If you oppose the convoy, you can go and protest.

01:23:44.980 If you're for any other matter, you can protest.

01:23:47.840 But they issued a, quote, health order under their emergency laws to ban support for the

01:23:55.000 convoy.

01:23:55.400 Clearly illegal, clearly unconstitutional.

01:23:57.460 But that shows the mindset of Canada these days.

01:24:01.260 And that's why these truckers are so important.

01:24:03.920 And obviously the other side realizes that.

01:24:06.000 And and they've just unleashed all the cannons.

01:24:09.040 The government of Nova Scotia literally banned protests in support of the convoy.

01:24:14.400 But that's the only protests that are banned.

01:24:17.320 It's you know what?

01:24:18.860 We're in a real battle up here, Megan.

01:24:20.220 I'm really glad that you're covering it.

01:24:21.820 And I should say foreign media have covered it better than Canadian media because the Canadian

01:24:26.480 media are completely in lockstep with the lockdowns.

01:24:29.980 That is a horrifying stat.

01:24:32.320 It reminds me of here in America where we were told to stay inside, stay inside, don't

01:24:36.420 gather in large groups inside or outside.

01:24:37.880 It can spread just as equally everywhere.

01:24:39.540 We're back in that phase, except if you want to protest in connection with BLM and that

01:24:44.460 the virus understands that you have a more noble purpose.

01:24:48.120 In Alberta, where these truckers at the border are, here's a quirky rule.

01:24:52.000 You won't believe this.

01:24:53.340 You can be outside without a mask.

01:24:55.840 But if you're outside for a protest, you must have a mask.

01:25:02.380 If you're outside for any other reason, you do not need a mask.

01:25:05.800 If it's a protest, you must have a mask.

01:25:08.000 Doesn't matter how busy the sidewalk.

01:25:10.700 That's simply a way to arrest protesters, obviously.

01:25:14.440 Nothing to do with health.

01:25:15.780 And that is in Alberta, which is supposedly the Texas of Canada, the freest province here.

01:25:20.180 I'm so glad that you're shining a light on these things.

01:25:22.340 Frankly, I know that sometimes U.S. senators speak out about, you know, Venezuela or Cuba

01:25:28.220 or places around the world that are authoritarian.

01:25:31.280 I don't want to exaggerate and I don't want to cry wolf, but I tell you, we could use with

01:25:36.620 a few U.S. senators saying, hey, Canada, what are you doing?

01:25:40.700 You're our longest ally.

01:25:42.660 I mean, you're NORAD and NATO and we're friends.

01:25:45.660 And what are you doing up there, guys?

01:25:47.280 We could use some scrutiny because I think that domestically, a lot of our checks and balances

01:25:52.020 have failed.

01:25:53.260 We haven't had any court victories setting back the lockdowns.

01:25:56.340 The media is completely on board.

01:25:57.960 The colleges of physicians and surgeons suspend doctors who give mask exemptions or speak out.

01:26:03.620 The chambers of commerce haven't fought back.

01:26:06.560 There's nobody here.

01:26:08.040 Maybe we could get a little help from our older brothers in America.

01:26:11.640 Oh, my gosh.

01:26:12.440 What about Candace Bergen?

01:26:14.740 I remember the name because she's also that's the same name of a very famous actress.

01:26:17.760 But I heard her giving guff to Justin Trudeau today.

01:26:21.740 And I thought, right on, sister.

01:26:22.840 Here she is for the audience at home.

01:26:24.640 Listen.

01:26:26.220 I do get very defensive of Canadians who are outside today, patriotic, peace loving Canadians

01:26:32.680 who are called misogynists and racist by the prime minister.

01:26:36.860 So, again, I will ask the prime minister who may I remind this House wore blackface on more

01:26:42.380 times than he can remember, apologize to the peace loving, patriotic Canadians who are outside

01:26:49.760 right now just asking to be heard.

01:26:52.580 Will he speak to them?

01:26:56.180 She's great.

01:26:57.000 That was only in the last week when the Conservative Party finally rose up and said,

01:27:01.720 we're not going to be silent anymore.

01:27:02.940 That's the precursor to the ouster today of the Conservative leader, because all the people

01:27:07.920 like Candace Bergen there, who's wonderful, and all the other Western conservative pro-trucker,

01:27:13.940 pro-freedom MPs were gagged by their party leader.

01:27:17.660 And that started falling.

01:27:18.480 The convoy liberated MPs like you just saw there.

01:27:22.100 And it culminated today in the ouster of the pro-lockdown Conservative leader.

01:27:25.820 So, yes, that was a wonderful moment.

01:27:28.220 So there are little green shoots of hope for sure.

01:27:30.840 But the bad guys still control all the levers of power.

01:27:34.660 Yeah.

01:27:35.700 Wow.

01:27:36.180 But things are starting to turn.

01:27:37.740 And there's a question about how many people, even from America, will come out to support

01:27:41.700 these guys and keep it going as it starts to wane just a slight bit in terms of the numbers

01:27:46.520 and so on, but not in terms of the commitment and the principle.

01:27:51.200 Ezra, thank you so much for your reporting.

01:27:53.000 You guys have been doing great.

01:27:53.840 It's a pleasure to meet you.

01:27:55.580 Thank you.

01:27:56.220 Likewise.

01:27:57.120 Wow.

01:27:58.160 And now it's your turn.

01:27:59.260 What do you make?

01:28:00.840 Of what's happening up north to our neighbors up north.

01:28:03.800 My gosh, it's bad.

01:28:05.920 And thank God for Ezra, right?

01:28:07.800 Rebel News and people who are willing to shine a light.

01:28:13.960 We're going to take some callers and kicking it off with Bill in Pennsylvania.

01:28:16.940 Bill, what's on your mind?

01:28:18.060 Hi, Megan.

01:28:18.580 First, you're simply awesome.

01:28:20.600 And I wanted to say, great show.

01:28:22.500 Thank you.

01:28:23.160 That you and Rich pointed out the hypocrisies of what Whoopi Goldberg does, what Georgetown

01:28:29.120 does, and just the general weakness really will help our fight pretty much in making

01:28:35.560 sure that more people pay attention and see that how it's so hypocritical.

01:28:41.600 Even the Canadian truckers that you just mentioned, how some, you know, if you're on one side,

01:28:46.620 you get to do this.

01:28:47.240 On the other side, that.

01:28:48.000 But I just wanted to say thanks for being such a great voice for it and really appreciate

01:28:52.440 the show.

01:28:53.280 Thank you.

01:28:53.960 My pleasure.

01:28:54.520 That story Ezra told about how they only would give the permit to people.

01:28:58.480 You're not allowed to go out and protest if you're in support of the truckers was insane.

01:29:02.300 It's just crazy up there.

01:29:04.360 Bill, thank you for listening.

01:29:05.740 OK, let's let's talk to Kirk.

01:29:07.640 Kirk's in Canada and has thoughts on what he's seeing.

01:29:10.900 Kirk, what are you seeing?

01:29:12.340 Hi, Megan.

01:29:12.800 Thanks for taking my call.

01:29:14.340 Sure.

01:29:14.920 What what I'm seeing up here and my whole family attended the Freedom Convoy protest

01:29:22.100 in Ottawa Saturday.

01:29:23.880 And I went back in on Monday on the ground just to get a feel for what was what was being

01:29:30.580 done for the truckers and if they needed any more support.

01:29:34.320 And what really is rattling my cage is what the media in Canada is reporting on the ground.

01:29:41.040 And they're reporting, as as you mentioned, about the swastika on the Canada flag and the

01:29:46.320 Confederate flag.

01:29:47.500 When I was down there on Saturday with my daughter, everybody was maskless, smiles and

01:29:53.920 you could see everybody's face.

01:29:55.520 The only person in the whole crowd and I didn't see them.

01:29:59.340 I was there for several hours.

01:30:01.420 I didn't see anybody like that.

01:30:02.800 Uh, the only person with their face covered was, was this person, uh, carrying this flag.

01:30:08.940 And that's all the media up here wants to talk about.

01:30:12.460 They don't want to talk about the two ladies that I met on the ground, uh, from the Ottawa

01:30:16.520 area that are bringing wagons full of sandwiches and lunches for the truckers.

01:30:20.120 They don't want to talk about the guys that are down on Parliament Hill shoveling the walkways

01:30:24.420 because there's no city workers to be found except for the ones that are providing barricades.

01:30:28.540 They don't want to talk about the love that's bringing Canada together.

01:30:34.120 And then on top of that, calling us racist and further insulting us by trying to make

01:30:41.760 us believe one thing that the media is showing us over another is also insulting.

01:30:47.820 So that's, that's really just what I wanted to get that out.

01:30:51.120 Well, I love, I love the firsthand reporting.

01:30:53.140 You know, my, my couple of my producers are in Canada.

01:30:55.540 My, my long-term producer, Debbie, I call her Canadian Debbie because she moved up there

01:30:59.140 a long time ago with her husband.

01:31:00.620 Um, she was saying all, all you really have is Ezra.

01:31:03.500 Like if you want to get any sort of fair and balanced news, you got Ezra and you have very

01:31:08.600 little else.

01:31:10.120 And all the money, all the big news agencies and follow the money.

01:31:14.940 You can see where the money's coming from, but all of those big news agencies are on the

01:31:19.600 same side and they're against us.

01:31:21.380 And it's frustrating and it's insulting.

01:31:23.600 Yeah.

01:31:23.700 So, wow, Kirk, thank you.

01:31:25.300 Thank you for calling in.

01:31:26.200 I appreciate it.

01:31:27.220 Let's head back to the States and David in Georgia.

01:31:30.520 Hey, David, your thoughts?

01:31:33.160 Megan, first of all, it's a blessing that you left that media outlet.

01:31:36.780 We get to hear exactly what you feel and what you are, are standing for in this country.

01:31:43.100 And thank you so much for doing that for us.

01:31:45.400 It's really enlightening.

01:31:47.640 I appreciate that.

01:31:48.500 I hope this, this trucker thing needs to wake the people up in our country.

01:31:54.420 We've had enough.

01:31:56.100 It's time to get in our trucks, our cars, whatever.

01:32:00.000 It's time to take this country back over from this liberal machine that is trying to destroy

01:32:05.200 it.

01:32:05.500 And we need to do something really fast because it's coming fast.

01:32:09.920 And I got to tell you, God bless those truckers for standing up to what is absolutely a disgrace.

01:32:16.600 And how can you tell me that when I go on an airplane, that the air is different in my seat

01:32:22.720 from eating a sandwich or a drink and getting up to go to the bathroom that I have to put a mask on?

01:32:28.560 This is ridiculous.

01:32:30.540 It's so true.

01:32:31.860 It's inspirational, right?

01:32:33.540 When Ezra was talking about the green shoots of freedom, it was, I got a little chill.

01:32:37.880 Like, if they can do it in Canada, which is not exactly known for its commitment to, you know,

01:32:42.320 revolution in the streets and freedom, why can't we do it here?

01:32:46.120 Why don't we see more of it?

01:32:47.360 You know, I think if these lockdowns continue to go on up there and if our treating of the

01:32:52.180 children and the mandatory vaccines and all this stuff continues to go on, you are going

01:32:56.080 to see more of it.

01:32:57.840 Hope so.

01:32:58.620 And I'm going to be on the front line to defend this country that my father fought for during

01:33:02.920 World War II to defend it from the hatred in Germany.

01:33:06.620 So God bless you and keep going.

01:33:09.300 Amen.

01:33:09.780 Thank you so much.

01:33:10.760 Oh, what a pleasure, David.

01:33:11.540 I appreciate it.

01:33:12.200 Thank you to all of our callers for calling in and to our listeners.

01:33:16.580 For tuning in, if you want to check us out on YouTube, you can do that as well.

01:33:19.880 As you can see, some of the Georgetown ones are amazing.

01:33:23.740 And also, you got to see that one soundbite with a woman holding the white supremacist.

01:33:28.120 I am not a white.

01:33:30.260 Go ahead and download the show as a podcast on Apple, Pandora, Spotify, and Stitcher.

01:33:34.400 Leave me a comment on Apple.

01:33:35.600 I read them all.

01:33:36.480 We'll see you tomorrow.

01:33:36.980 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:33:42.020 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - February 02, 2022

Zucker's Seismic CNN Exit, Whoopi's Suspension, and Canada's Freedom-Loving Truckers, with Rich Lowry, Melissa Cronin, Stu Burguiere, and Ezra Levant ｜ Ep. 253

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