The Michael Knowles Show - 2 Liberals vs. 1 Conservative： BAR FIGHT ｜ Michael Knowles, Oliver Niehaus, The Soy Pill

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00:01:00.000 You don't like Somali, so just come out and say that.

00:01:02.000 I might say that.

00:01:03.000 No offense.

00:01:04.000 Your acting is really bad.

00:01:05.000 If you were a better actor, you wouldn't be here doing this Bar Fight show.

00:01:07.000 Brock, put me in a bikini.

00:01:08.000 Stranger Things is not really a kid show.

00:01:10.000 Wait, I gotta push back.

00:01:11.000 It's for babies.

00:01:12.000 Your performance as a homosexual was entirely unconvincing.

00:01:18.000 Welcome to Bar Fight.

00:01:19.000 The show where I, Michael Knowles, go head-to-head with two esteemed libs on topics chosen by you.

00:01:26.000 Our first guest, you may know as the soy pill online.

00:01:29.000 Yeah, like I know you identify as white, Michael, but you could pass as some sort of Southern American.

00:01:34.000 Kill, they are a citizen!

00:01:35.000 You think the Constitution only applies to citizens, yes or no?

00:01:38.000 Our second guest, master debater.

00:01:40.000 Recent graduate of Oberlin College.

00:01:42.000 That would be Oliver Nyhaus.

00:01:44.000 Now, here is how it works.

00:01:52.000 We will be debating three of the most controversial topics of our day.

00:01:56.000 The bell rings.

00:01:57.000 We duke it out for that round.

00:01:58.000 And then, our friends in the crowd can come up to the microphone and pick a fight with any of us.

00:02:03.000 But do not wait, because there is a time limit for each round, and anyone who comes up to the mic can win special prizes

00:02:10.000 and a seat at our VIP section sponsored by Redneck Riviera Whiskey.

00:02:15.000 Gentlemen, are you ready?

00:02:18.000 Oh, yeah.

00:02:19.000 I have the topics right here.

00:02:21.000 It is round one.

00:02:28.000 Now, I'm going to read all the topics, all of them picked by my esteemed guests,

00:02:32.000 and I'm going to try to make it unclear who picked which.

00:02:35.000 You know, you can get Grok to make him into like a bikini girl, right?

00:02:38.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:02:40.000 Grok, put me in a bikini.

00:02:42.000 Editors, do not put me in a bikini.

00:02:44.000 First topic.

00:02:45.000 Netflix turned Will gay.

00:02:48.000 Second topic.

00:02:49.000 Keep them in your mind.

00:02:50.000 There's a bunch of them.

00:02:51.000 Second topic.

00:02:52.000 Vaccines are bad.

00:02:55.000 Third topic.

00:02:56.000 Gay marriage is totally fake.

00:03:01.000 A lot of homophobes in the audience, okay?

00:03:04.000 Fourth topic.

00:03:05.000 The Somalis are more corrupt than Donald Trump.

00:03:09.000 Yeah.

00:03:10.000 Oh.

00:03:11.000 All right.

00:03:12.000 Not a lot of Somalis in the audience.

00:03:14.000 Fifth topic.

00:03:15.000 Trump's economy is awesome.

00:03:18.000 And sixth topic.

00:03:20.000 Trump is right.

00:03:21.000 White people were treated very unfairly after the Civil Rights Act.

00:03:27.000 I'm surprised people are here from the Civil Rights Movement.

00:03:30.000 You guys were there for that.

00:03:31.000 That's a little concerning.

00:03:32.000 I guess it's the Somalis, right?

00:03:34.000 Yeah.

00:03:35.000 Okay.

00:03:36.000 There we go.

00:03:37.000 Whose topic?

00:03:38.000 Whose topic is it?

00:03:39.000 I believe that's mine.

00:03:40.000 Okay, phrase it however you want.

00:03:41.000 Yeah, that's not quite how I phrased it, but that's totally fine.

00:03:43.000 My prompt was that Donald Trump is more corrupt than a Somali daycare center.

00:03:48.000 So that's something I was going to bring up there.

00:03:50.000 My argument basically is, you know, we need to focus on the fact that if we're talking about fraud specifically or corruption, you can't really claim to care about whether or not there's a daycare center that has kids or not.

00:04:01.000 I think Nick Shirley did a pretty terrible job trying to uncover that fraud considering he walked in there with a camera and was like, show me the kids.

00:04:08.000 And they were like, no, we're not going to let you into a daycare center with a camera on your film crew.

00:04:12.000 Two hours before they opened.

00:04:13.000 Yeah.

00:04:14.000 And then he then he cried fraud.

00:04:15.000 So, you know, I think that that's a bit ridiculous here.

00:04:17.000 And I think it's also very important to, you know, focus on where the fraud is here.

00:04:20.000 So let's focus on some of this Somali fraud.

00:04:22.000 So let's talk about Trevor Milton, who defrauded his investors, costing tens of millions of dollars.

00:04:26.000 He was sentenced to four years in prison.

00:04:28.000 Oh, he's not Somali.

00:04:29.000 And Donald Trump pardoned him last year.

00:04:31.000 We can talk about Paul Walchek, who stole over $7 million from his employees' paychecks.

00:04:36.000 He was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

00:04:38.000 He was also pardoned last year by Donald Trump.

00:04:40.000 He's also not Somali.

00:04:41.000 We can talk about Michelle Fiore, who stole over $70,000, meant for a memorial to fallen police officers,

00:04:47.000 and spent it on herself, including her own cosmetic surgery.

00:04:50.000 You guessed it.

00:04:51.000 Donald Trump pardoned her last year.

00:04:52.000 We can talk about Lawrence Duran, who ran the largest Medicare-related fraud scheme in history.

00:04:57.000 Yeah.

00:04:58.000 There are a few more.

00:04:59.000 A few more.

00:05:00.000 That's a long list.

00:05:01.000 It's a long list here.

00:05:02.000 Pardoned a lot of bad people.

00:05:03.000 You know, we can talk about Philip Estiformis, who orchestrated the biggest criminal Medicare scheme in history,

00:05:07.000 over $1 billion in fraudulent claims.

00:05:08.000 We could talk about David Gentile, who defrauded over 10,000 investors, over $1.6 billion.

00:05:15.000 Donald Trump pardoned him just last month.

00:05:17.000 Okay?

00:05:18.000 So if we want to talk about fraud, if we want to talk about corruption, you can't talk about them unless you talk about the fraudster in chief, which is Donald Trump.

00:05:25.000 So I think it's very, it seems to me that conservatives and people on the right don't actually care about fraud.

00:05:30.000 They only care about fraud and corruption when it's committed by an immigrant, a person of color, or someone who's part of the LGBTQ community.

00:05:37.000 Okay.

00:05:38.000 Because it's not really that fraud is what you're against.

00:05:40.000 You don't like Somalis.

00:05:41.000 So just come out and say that.

00:05:42.000 Just come out and say that.

00:05:43.000 Okay.

00:05:44.000 Don't pick up this whole scheme about that.

00:05:45.000 I might say that.

00:05:46.000 So.

00:05:47.000 Yeah.

00:05:48.000 There we go.

00:05:49.000 And that would be a little bit more honest there.

00:05:50.000 So your, your argument is Trump is more corrupt than the Somalis.

00:05:52.000 Correct.

00:05:53.000 Because he, he used the pardon power for these people.

00:05:55.000 Well, not just the pardon power.

00:05:56.000 We can talk about many other things.

00:05:57.000 Absolutely.

00:05:58.000 Let's take that.

00:05:59.000 Sure.

00:06:00.000 We can talk about just, yes, absolutely.

00:06:01.000 There's nothing corrupt about a president using the pardon power, which he has the absolute right to do.

00:06:06.000 I didn't say it's, he's corrupt because he used the pardon power.

00:06:08.000 Well, you said he's corrupt.

00:06:09.000 And here's all my evidence.

00:06:10.000 He used the pardon power.

00:06:11.000 No, not that he used the pardon power that he pardoned people who did corruption.

00:06:15.000 If you pardon people who do corruption, then you're pro corruption.

00:06:19.000 Okay.

00:06:20.000 Do you think Bill Clinton pardoned over 450 people, including 140 people on his last day in office, including many financial fraudsters, billionaire tax evaders, his drag addict brother, which has a residence later on for Joe Biden.

00:06:30.000 Not a fan.

00:06:31.000 Not a fan.

00:06:32.000 You would say, you would say Bill Clinton's corrupt.

00:06:33.000 Not a fan.

00:06:34.000 Do not like Bill Clinton here.

00:06:35.000 Okay.

00:06:36.000 Joe Biden pardons.

00:06:37.000 Yeah.

00:06:38.000 Gives a blanket pardon to his brothers who engaged in a lot of.

00:06:39.000 Yeah.

00:06:40.000 Not a good idea.

00:06:41.000 I don't think Joe Biden should have done that.

00:06:42.000 Okay.

00:06:43.000 So all these presidents.

00:06:44.000 Okay.

00:06:45.000 Absolutely.

00:06:46.000 I do think Trump is unique in the way that he does this.

00:06:47.000 And also we could talk about crypto and Trump will be starting world liberty financial and investing and getting tons, hundreds of millions of dollars from that exact meme coin that he came out.

00:06:53.000 If we want to also talk about.

00:06:54.000 Okay.

00:06:55.000 Hold on.

00:06:56.000 Let's take that.

00:06:57.000 And he pardoned Chiang Pang, who then committed that fraud and was also invested in world liberty financial.

00:07:00.000 So there's like, there's so many elements to this.

00:07:02.000 You mentioned the crypto.

00:07:03.000 Correct.

00:07:04.000 Some meme coins and other crypto holdings.

00:07:06.000 Correct.

00:07:07.000 Is your claim that Trump's crypto business dealings are fraudulent or criminal?

00:07:13.000 Well, I think, yes, in that they obviously violate the emoluments clause of the Constitution.

00:07:17.000 We can talk about the fact that Jimmy Carter, when he was president, was required to sell his peanut farm before he became president.

00:07:23.000 Yet Donald Trump is be able to hold on to or loosely pass off all of his business.

00:07:27.000 Okay.

00:07:28.000 Two questions.

00:07:29.000 Very, very immediate family.

00:07:30.000 And that's somehow not corrupt.

00:07:31.000 Two questions.

00:07:32.000 So you mentioned that the crypto thing might be illegal.

00:07:34.000 Yeah.

00:07:35.000 I'd be curious to see if you could cite a law for that.

00:07:37.000 But on the emoluments point, the courts have ruled three times on Trump potentially violating the emoluments clause.

00:07:43.000 What has the court said?

00:07:44.000 The court on the emoluments clause?

00:07:46.000 Yeah.

00:07:47.000 Which court specifically, Michael, ruled on this?

00:07:48.000 Well, twice the Supreme Court and once the appeals court.

00:07:50.000 Tell me about it.

00:07:51.000 I'm sure, Michael, that they said it was totally legit and fine the same way they said that Trump can break the law and have no consequences for it whatsoever at all in any official act.

00:07:58.000 There have been three emoluments cases.

00:08:00.000 The Supreme Court dismissed two of them in an unsigned order.

00:08:02.000 So it could have been unanimous.

00:08:03.000 And then they couldn't rule on the third one because an appeals court already dismissed that.

00:08:07.000 So every time the libs have tried to get Trump on emoluments, it's been completely thrown out.

00:08:11.000 Do you think that?

00:08:12.000 And you can't cite a law that he broke with crypto.

00:08:13.000 No.

00:08:14.000 Do you think then that the president should be able to have business dealings while in office that directly conflict with his roles as president in terms of whether it comes to upcharging the Secret Service for staying at his own properties and resorts on the taxpayer's dime or many other things like that?

00:08:27.000 The accounting issue with that was already resolved.

00:08:29.000 There was no admission of guilt and there was no criminal proceeding whatsoever.

00:08:31.000 Just because there wasn't criminal proceedings against something, do you mean that nothing wrong happened?

00:08:34.000 No, I'm saying it's not corrupt, which is your claim.

00:08:36.000 Hold on.

00:08:37.000 Do you think someone has to be convicted of corruption in order to be corrupt?

00:08:39.000 Well, I think corruption has a meaning and corruption revolves deceit or fraud.

00:08:43.000 And in particular, when we're talking about political office, we are talking about crimes.

00:08:46.000 We have a way to adjudicate whether or not a president's committed a crime.

00:08:49.000 Trump has not been found guilty on any of these fronts.

00:08:52.000 Now, before we end, I think it is worth pointing out we've talked a lot about Trump and there's no evidence he's engaged in any corruption.

00:08:57.000 However, we haven't talked about the Somalis, who have committed, by the most conservative estimate, $1 billion in fraud, potentially up to $9 billion in fraud, merely on...

00:09:07.000 Wait, are you citing the number of Nick Shirley in the back of a car just adding up numbers and not understanding anything?

00:09:12.000 No, I'm happy to go through the numbers.

00:09:13.000 From the, like, illiterate journalist?

00:09:14.000 Is that what we're talking about?

00:09:15.000 Let's go through the numbers.

00:09:16.000 No, I think...

00:09:17.000 Hold on.

00:09:18.000 Hold on.

00:09:19.000 Hold on.

00:09:20.000 You challenged on the numbers.

00:09:21.000 Let me go through.

00:09:22.000 What I'm challenging you is you completely have moved on from the crypto point by trying to talk about the emoluments clause.

00:09:23.000 And you've completely...

00:09:24.000 No, he brought up the emoluments clause.

00:09:25.000 I didn't believe that.

00:09:26.000 Yes, but you've completely brushed over the fact that Trump has started a coin that is completely worthless, had all of his supporters buy into this, and then rug pull them for hundreds of millions.

00:09:32.000 It's not completely worthless, obviously.

00:09:33.000 It is completely worthless.

00:09:34.000 Your claim is that he's enriched himself through it, so it obviously has value.

00:09:36.000 Yes, it's worth...

00:09:37.000 And you can't cite a law that he broke.

00:09:38.000 It's worth nothing.

00:09:39.000 I didn't say it was illegal.

00:09:40.000 But you're trying to get off the Somalis.

00:09:41.000 You're trying to get off the Somalis, which is half the question.

00:09:42.000 No, I'm trying to get off the emoluments clause so you can talk about the crypto coin and how much it is insane that he said, hey, give me millions of dollars for this worthless coin.

00:09:49.000 What law did he break?

00:09:50.000 I didn't say anything about illegality.

00:09:51.000 I'm saying this is corrupt and this is fraudulent.

00:09:52.000 Okay, there you go.

00:09:53.000 The Somalis broke a lot of laws.

00:09:54.000 Is it not fraudulent that Donald Trump stole millions of dollars from his supporters?

00:09:57.000 It's not fraudulent at all.

00:09:58.000 There's no fraud.

00:09:59.000 There was no deceit whatsoever.

00:10:00.000 And it's still value.

00:10:01.000 Was it for corrupt to use his office in his position of power to steal millions of dollars from his supporters?

00:10:04.000 He wasn't in office when he started the coin.

00:10:05.000 He used his popularity from being in office.

00:10:07.000 His popularity from being in office?

00:10:08.000 Yes.

00:10:09.000 Do we really want to go down that road with Barack Obama and Joe Biden?

00:10:11.000 Okay, so just to be clear.

00:10:12.000 Your defense is...

00:10:13.000 Hundreds of millions of dollars...

00:10:14.000 Well, it was two days before the inauguration, so it's okay that he stole all the money, right?

00:10:17.000 He wasn't in office.

00:10:18.000 Yeah, oh, okay.

00:10:19.000 Just to be clear about it.

00:10:20.000 Your defense is he wasn't in office.

00:10:21.000 It's fine to steal money from his supporters.

00:10:22.000 Yeah, private citizens, especially one of the most successful businessmen of our lifetime.

00:10:25.000 Okay, so Michael's concern here is that his supporters are stupid and it's fine because

00:10:28.000 Trump was the president at the time.

00:10:29.000 Never made that point at all.

00:10:30.000 On your point though, before the bell rings, because you were cutting me off on Somalis because

00:10:32.000 you don't want to hear it.

00:10:33.000 The Feed Our Future scam was the largest fraud of COVID, of the pandemic.

00:10:39.000 A quarter billion dollars in that alone.

00:10:41.000 A hundred million dollars of fraud when it comes to daycare.

00:10:44.000 Fourteen million dollars of fraud already admitted to by a Somali.

00:10:46.000 Wait, they weren't in office, were they?

00:10:47.000 When it comes to autism therapy.

00:10:48.000 These Somalis weren't in office?

00:10:49.000 No, they're in our country, they shouldn't be, and we're going to kick them out.

00:10:53.000 Okay.

00:10:54.000 Questions from the audience?

00:10:55.000 Hey, everybody.

00:10:56.000 Just, I really want to know.

00:10:58.000 Yeah, sure.

00:10:59.000 We don't like Trump, that's what you're saying, but is there something wrong with simply more

00:11:06.000 deeply investigating the Somali fraud, but also just fraud in general in the Minnesota

00:11:11.000 area?

00:11:12.000 There's nothing wrong with investigating fraud, but you can look at the way that the Trump

00:11:16.000 administration has, the whole Doge scandal and how they found nothing.

00:11:19.000 They convicted no one and wasted a ton of money.

00:11:21.000 I don't trust the current administration to look into fraud.

00:11:23.000 What's the Doge scandal?

00:11:25.000 The scandal of that they are not able to find any fraud and they spend millions and millions

00:11:28.000 of dollars and it's complete waste.

00:11:30.000 That's the scandal.

00:11:31.000 First of all, Doge was not tasked with finding fraud.

00:11:33.000 That was part of it.

00:11:34.000 Waste, fraud, and abuse.

00:11:35.000 Waste, fraud, and abuse.

00:11:36.000 Waste, fraud, and abuse.

00:11:37.000 Waste, fraud, and abuse.

00:11:38.000 I'm sorry.

00:11:39.000 So you're saying that they didn't say waste, fraud, and abuse a hundred million times?

00:11:44.000 No, it was literally their motto of what they had.

00:11:46.000 The Department of Government.

00:11:47.000 You've pivoted away.

00:11:48.000 That's not actually what I asked.

00:11:49.000 And North Korea is a democratic republic.

00:11:50.000 So I guess it's fine, right?

00:11:51.000 It's true.

00:11:52.000 That's what their name is.

00:11:53.000 It's in the name.

00:11:54.000 The presidents are from Santa.

00:11:55.000 It says it under the tree.

00:11:56.000 The task of it was to streamline spending and to reduce spending even that which was

00:11:58.000 not fraud.

00:11:59.000 And to find waste, fraud, and abuse.

00:12:00.000 Some of it was fraud, yeah.

00:12:01.000 Which fraud?

00:12:02.000 What stuff did they find?

00:12:03.000 Because they didn't actually find fraud.

00:12:04.000 They found it somewhere like USAID was they found things they were spending money on

00:12:07.000 that they ideologically disagreed with.

00:12:09.000 Yeah.

00:12:10.000 Like transgender ballerinas.

00:12:11.000 Yeah.

00:12:12.000 I'm sure you're gonna, you're gonna, yeah.

00:12:13.000 Of course, they were literally putting on transgender ballet.

00:12:15.000 That's a real example.

00:12:16.000 Yeah.

00:12:17.000 Wondering, guys.

00:12:18.000 100%.

00:12:19.000 So what if we just go like this?

00:12:20.000 We say, okay, hear each other.

00:12:21.000 Let's move forward and try to focus.

00:12:22.000 Let's actually try to find the right fraud.

00:12:24.000 Let's try to figure it out together as a unit because that could be a really good thing.

00:12:27.000 Yeah.

00:12:28.000 It's a meaningless platitude.

00:12:29.000 I agree with you.

00:12:30.000 Fraud is bad.

00:12:31.000 I don't trust the administration to find fraud.

00:12:32.000 They're horrible at it.

00:12:33.000 Somalis committed any fraud.

00:12:34.000 I didn't say that.

00:12:35.000 I didn't say that.

00:12:36.000 You said fraud is bad.

00:12:37.000 It's an abstract platitude.

00:12:38.000 No, that's not what I said.

00:12:39.000 I'm asking you about a specific example.

00:12:40.000 Yeah.

00:12:41.000 And if you look at the, what's the quality leering center or whatever, this is someone who had

00:12:44.000 been investigated for malpractice and sorts of stuff before this.

00:12:46.000 And I'm all for investigating that and making sure these kids are safe.

00:12:49.000 Absolutely.

00:12:50.000 Oh, good.

00:12:51.000 And that was originally an interesting pivot there, Michael, where you said this.

00:12:52.000 You don't think the Somalis have done any fraud?

00:12:53.000 None of us have ever made that claim.

00:12:54.000 Well, he just said it was all abstract and ideological.

00:12:56.000 No, no, no.

00:12:57.000 Hold on.

00:12:58.000 No, no, no, no.

00:12:59.000 I said that about Doge.

00:13:03.000 I'm talking about fraud as a general concept and Doge relates to fraud even if you don't

00:13:07.000 think it relates to fraud.

00:13:08.000 But I think it's really interesting how you pivoted to the conversation of you don't think

00:13:11.000 the Somalis have committed any fraud?

00:13:12.000 No, I don't know.

00:13:13.000 I think we should have an open, fair investigation that doesn't involve a 20-year-old YouTuber

00:13:17.000 named Nick Shirley, who doesn't know the word benevolent, to be able to come in here

00:13:21.000 and tell us that somehow Somalis are committing fraud because they didn't let him into a daycare

00:13:24.000 center with a camera.

00:13:25.000 The investigation is being conducted by the federal government.

00:13:26.000 Correct.

00:13:27.000 And I am in support of a federal investigation.

00:13:29.000 However, you know, yeah, I think there should be an investigation.

00:13:32.000 And I do think, however, that should also involve the state of Minnesota.

00:13:34.000 And we do see, however-

00:13:35.000 The state of Minnesota perpetrated the fraud.

00:13:37.000 Why don't we let him-

00:13:38.000 There were people who did that.

00:13:40.000 Do you not think that there can be investigators who investigate what goes wrong in the government

00:13:44.000 who aren't the people who committed the fraud?

00:13:45.000 Oliver, come on.

00:13:46.000 The investigation is into Tim Walz for participating in the fraud.

00:13:50.000 Sure.

00:13:51.000 There are multiple types of investigations that occur.

00:13:53.000 You can investigate if you want Tim Walz for orchestrating that.

00:13:56.000 There can also be people who investigate in the state to determine whether state fraud was done.

00:14:00.000 Yeah, that's fine.

00:14:01.000 It's not-

00:14:02.000 So he's trying to make it ridiculous to claim that if I claim that there should be any Minnesota

00:14:05.000 involvement in it, I'm claiming Tim Walz should investigate himself.

00:14:08.000 Because that's what Michael likes to do.

00:14:09.000 He likes to reduce this down.

00:14:10.000 He's the governor of the state.

00:14:11.000 He likes to reduce this down.

00:14:12.000 What I'm hearing is that a white suburban dad did the fraud and not a Somali.

00:14:16.000 Yeah, well, he participated in it.

00:14:18.000 But there were about 80,000 non-white suburban dads who sent money to Al Shabaab.

00:14:23.000 But Michael, I'm going to go with you.

00:14:24.000 They weren't in office, so I don't think it's that bad.

00:14:26.000 It's fine.

00:14:27.000 You don't think the-

00:14:28.000 They weren't in office.

00:14:29.000 They weren't in office.

00:14:30.000 No, you can commit crimes when you're not in office.

00:14:31.000 Oh, like Trump?

00:14:32.000 You can.

00:14:33.000 I don't know where you're getting this idea from.

00:14:34.000 Wow, that's crazy.

00:14:35.000 Like stealing a bunch of money in a crypto scam?

00:14:36.000 There's no-

00:14:37.000 Again, I don't-

00:14:38.000 You keep going back to Trump having crypto dealings.

00:14:40.000 Well, you said he wasn't in office.

00:14:41.000 That was your defense.

00:14:42.000 Well, he wasn't president yet, so it's fine.

00:14:43.000 Well, these guys weren't president either, so-

00:14:45.000 No, no, no.

00:14:46.000 We're talking about corruption in office, but then you're saying that he committed some crime,

00:14:49.000 but you can't name the crime.

00:14:50.000 First of all, I didn't say it was a crime.

00:14:52.000 I said it was corruption, as in you're using a position of power to market something as

00:14:56.000 valuable to your little-

00:14:59.000 Here's a question.

00:15:00.000 Has President Trump profited on the Trump coin?

00:15:02.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:15:03.000 Then it has value.

00:15:04.000 Oh, okay.

00:15:05.000 For him, specifically.

00:15:06.000 So wait, hold on.

00:15:07.000 That's a good point.

00:15:08.000 He admitted.

00:15:09.000 He stole a bunch of money from his friends.

00:15:10.000 And he's profited.

00:15:11.000 He's profited on business dealings while in office.

00:15:13.000 We'll get back to him.

00:15:14.000 He's profited on business dealings while in office.

00:15:16.000 I guess I would just say a similar thing of like, I feel like the problem is, you know,

00:15:20.000 Trump commit, which I agree with a lot of what you say about Trump, but you know, Trump

00:15:24.000 does something corrupt.

00:15:25.000 And so Democrats say he's the problem and then vice versa.

00:15:28.000 And so why you're saying, let's have an open investigation into, you know, the Minnesota

00:15:33.000 thing, but then you're poo-pooing Nick Shirley.

00:15:35.000 You're poo-pooing, you know, the-

00:15:37.000 Because he's not a federal investigator.

00:15:39.000 Sure.

00:15:40.000 But is that not telling that it took him to reveal it?

00:15:42.000 Because federal investigators didn't.

00:15:43.000 It didn't take him to reveal it.

00:15:44.000 It didn't take him to reveal it at all.

00:15:46.000 There was, as Michael talks about with Feeding Our Future.

00:15:48.000 Yeah.

00:15:49.000 That was a fraud scandal that happened and that was investigated and that was found.

00:15:51.000 So it didn't take Nick Shirley to do this.

00:15:53.000 Nick Shirley just came along with his camera and claimed that somehow this is indicative

00:15:56.000 of some larger fraud scheme.

00:15:57.000 There's a hundred million dollars in daycare fraud too.

00:15:58.000 So it's less than Feed Our Future, but it's pretty significant.

00:16:00.000 Which is being investigated right now.

00:16:02.000 Yeah.

00:16:03.000 So how are you claiming that these things have already happened when the investigations have not come

00:16:06.000 through finalized?

00:16:07.000 It's good for journalists to pursue facts.

00:16:09.000 I think it's crazy to call Nick Shirley a journalist.

00:16:11.000 I don't know.

00:16:12.000 I think he's a better journalist than the New York Times.

00:16:14.000 Oh, I'm sure you do, Michael.

00:16:15.000 There we go.

00:16:16.000 Before Nick Shirley made it.

00:16:18.000 And now, you know, Tim Walls is stepping down from re-election.

00:16:21.000 Has that not had an effect?

00:16:22.000 I don't, I mean, we can talk about many things that led to Tim Walls not seeking re-election.

00:16:26.000 I mean, I'll agree with you once, I think being on the failing vice presidential ticket

00:16:29.000 isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of you continuing to run the state.

00:16:32.000 In terms of political realities here, I might agree with that.

00:16:34.000 I also think the fact that Tim Walls' family was being,

00:16:37.000 just being insanely harassed there in terms of literally people going to his house and

00:16:42.000 screaming the word retard at his son.

00:16:44.000 Okay.

00:16:45.000 And you, I'm sure you think that's funny, but I actually do think it's pretty, you know,

00:16:48.000 vile, a vile thing to do.

00:16:49.000 Do you think President Trump's family has been harassed at all over the last 10 years?

00:16:53.000 Yeah, and I don't support people going after his children or something like that,

00:16:56.000 or going after or making up these stories that his granddaughter is gay.

00:16:59.000 I think that's a bad thing to do.

00:17:00.000 Is that a story?

00:17:01.000 It is.

00:17:02.000 It's completely unfair, because Trump lives in like a penthouse,

00:17:04.000 and you can't scream retard from the ground floor.

00:17:06.000 New York is very small.

00:17:08.000 We need to make Tim Walls in a skyscraper, put his family up,

00:17:10.000 and then it'll be even ground.

00:17:12.000 Then I'm okay with it.

00:17:13.000 Tim Walls has taken enough taxpayer money.

00:17:15.000 I'm not sure that we need to put him up in a penthouse.

00:17:17.000 Do we have another question?

00:17:18.000 Hi, guys.

00:17:19.000 This isn't a question.

00:17:20.000 This is just a comment.

00:17:21.000 I think it's a little disingenuous, Oliver, that you read that list of all the Americans

00:17:25.000 that were supposedly committing fraud.

00:17:27.000 Yeah, sorry about the facts.

00:17:28.000 Yeah, we have to deal with their nonsense and whatever means that we deal with it.

00:17:33.000 But these Somalis, they're coming over and they're committing the fraud.

00:17:36.000 They are not Americans.

00:17:37.000 They come from a different country, and they bring their garbage with them.

00:17:40.000 We don't have a duty to deal with their nonsense.

00:17:43.000 Hold on.

00:17:44.000 What do you mean we don't have to deal with their nonsense because-

00:17:47.000 Because they're from a different country.

00:17:48.000 Hold on.

00:17:49.000 They're not citizens.

00:17:50.000 So do you think people who-

00:17:51.000 We're not even talking about illegal immigrants versus legal immigrants.

00:17:53.000 Do you think someone who's a legal immigrant who's here-

00:17:56.000 They're not necessarily-

00:17:57.000 Wait.

00:17:58.000 A majority of the Somali population is legal immigrants that came over from the Somali Civil War.

00:18:06.000 Which, by the way, we exacerbated.

00:18:07.000 Hold on, sir.

00:18:08.000 We exacerbated.

00:18:09.000 Give me a break.

00:18:10.000 Yes, we did exacerbate.

00:18:11.000 We dropped a big fucking helicopter in there and then killed a bunch of them.

00:18:13.000 Yeah, they need to stop committing terrorism.

00:18:15.000 They need to stop destabilizing their fake country.

00:18:17.000 There's a civil war.

00:18:18.000 There are two factions of this.

00:18:19.000 It's not, oh, all the Somalis are just shooting at stuff.

00:18:21.000 It's a bunch of turmoil that we exacerbated.

00:18:23.000 A bunch of immigrants came fleeing the violence, the people that weren't shooting at us.

00:18:27.000 Now they are integrated into our society and now you're saying, oh, well, they're not

00:18:30.000 Americans.

00:18:31.000 They're literally American citizens.

00:18:32.000 Is your contention that the Somali Civil War, which we aided in, we provided aid, and lost

00:18:39.000 personnel because of it, is your contention that Somalia didn't experience mass violence

00:18:44.000 before 1991 as a functioning country?

00:18:46.000 No.

00:18:47.000 That's a different claim, Michael.

00:18:48.000 My contention is that something that we exacerbated and allowed people to come in to

00:18:51.000 flee that violence.

00:18:52.000 No, we allowed them in.

00:18:53.000 Part of which was because of us are integrated into our society.

00:18:56.000 They are-

00:18:57.000 You can finish your sentence if you want.

00:18:59.000 They're American citizens.

00:19:00.000 They're not immigrants.

00:19:01.000 They're literally not citizens.

00:19:02.000 A majority of them are citizens.

00:19:03.000 Right.

00:19:04.000 Okay.

00:19:05.000 So we have to decide who won that round.

00:19:09.000 Not the Somalis.

00:19:10.000 The Somalis lost that round.

00:19:11.000 There's no doubt about that.

00:19:13.000 Was it the soy pill?

00:19:16.000 Blue or red?

00:19:17.000 Blue or red?

00:19:18.000 Hold your paddles.

00:19:19.000 Was it Oliver?

00:19:20.000 Oh yeah, blue and red.

00:19:21.000 That's right.

00:19:22.000 Who won?

00:19:23.000 Was it the lids?

00:19:24.000 Put up the blue.

00:19:25.000 Hold it up.

00:19:26.000 What color won?

00:19:27.000 Blue or red?

00:19:28.000 There's one.

00:19:29.000 Michael, are we in Nashville?

00:19:30.000 Go in favor of him.

00:19:31.000 Look, I don't-

00:19:32.000 Wow.

00:19:33.000 There we go.

00:19:34.000 It was like 50-50 last time.

00:19:35.000 Oh, I'm sure.

00:19:36.000 I've seen what makes them cheer.

00:19:37.000 Yeah.

00:19:38.000 There's a more important decision to make.

00:19:41.000 Who was the best questioner of that round who gets to go to the VIP table?

00:19:45.000 Ooh.

00:19:46.000 Not gonna lie, they were both trash.

00:19:47.000 The second guy seemed very good faith.

00:19:49.000 He's like, I acknowledge what you're saying.

00:19:50.000 Yeah.

00:19:51.000 He's too nice.

00:19:52.000 But that's what we need right now.

00:19:53.000 We've got an oppositional-

00:19:54.000 We should get him a little drunker so he's more angry.

00:19:55.000 That's fair.

00:19:56.000 Yes, get him drunk.

00:19:57.000 You get it, second guy.

00:19:58.000 You're going to the VIP table.

00:19:59.000 Oh, second guy.

00:20:00.000 There we go.

00:20:01.000 Congrats, second guy.

00:20:02.000 The beautiful Miley and Mayflower cigars.

00:20:03.000 Redneck Riviera.

00:20:04.000 Okay.

00:20:05.000 Now, you're gonna enjoy your delicious Redneck Riviera whiskey.

00:20:10.000 And you know what I'm gonna enjoy?

00:20:12.000 Z-Biotics.

00:20:13.000 That's what I'm gonna enjoy.

00:20:15.000 Folks, right now, if you go to zbiotics.com slash bar fight, you will find out that after

00:20:22.000 a night with drinks, people don't always bounce back the next day like they should.

00:20:26.000 Me, I'm an old man now, 35 years old.

00:20:28.000 All right, I'm no spring chicken.

00:20:30.000 I have to make a choice.

00:20:31.000 I can either have a great night or a great next day.

00:20:35.000 That is, until I found Z-Biotics pre-alcohol.

00:20:38.000 Z-Biotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic.

00:20:43.000 It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking, and the science

00:20:48.000 behind it is fascinating.

00:20:50.000 Unlike the fake science and statistics these people are peddling, this is real stuff.

00:20:54.000 Here is how it works.

00:20:55.000 When you drink alcohol, the alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut.

00:21:00.000 Now, it's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that is to blame for rough days

00:21:05.000 after drinking, which I had no idea about until I looked into it.

00:21:08.000 Pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down.

00:21:12.000 So you are actually addressing the root cause.

00:21:14.000 Just remember to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night.

00:21:17.000 Drink responsibly, and you will feel your best tomorrow.

00:21:21.000 Trust me, when you've got nights like this, but have the early morning podcast the next day,

00:21:26.000 and still need to be present with the family after work, at least in principle,

00:21:29.000 then feeling sharp makes all the difference.

00:21:31.000 You got to get, I'm going to open it up right now and have some,

00:21:33.000 because I actually forgot to have some before my Redneck Riviera.

00:21:36.000 Right now, go to bar fight.

00:21:38.000 Go to zbiotics.com slash bar fight and get my keys out so I can open this up.

00:21:43.000 I hope you can get that open.

00:21:44.000 That might be an Andrew Wilson olive jar situation right here if you don't get that open.

00:21:48.000 I know.

00:21:49.000 Better get open right now.

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00:22:13.000 Gentlemen, it's round two.

00:22:21.000 All right, ready?

00:22:22.000 Oh, don't bring me.

00:22:24.000 Don't bring me another.

00:22:25.000 I haven't had my zbiotics yet.

00:22:26.000 I've barely drank mine.

00:22:27.000 What are we doing?

00:22:28.000 Hold on.

00:22:29.000 All right.

00:22:30.000 Do you just, do you do it all at once or?

00:22:31.000 I guess.

00:22:32.000 Are we?

00:22:33.000 All right, ready?

00:22:34.000 Here we go.

00:22:35.000 Do a little zbiotic shooter.

00:22:39.000 Delicious.

00:22:40.000 Wow.

00:22:41.000 And how?

00:22:42.000 Now, folks, you got to pick the topic.

00:22:44.000 We've already gone through them.

00:22:45.000 Which one?

00:22:46.000 I think it was.

00:22:47.000 We haven't.

00:22:48.000 It was the vaccine.

00:22:49.000 No, was it the.

00:22:50.000 Netflix.

00:22:51.000 Yeah.

00:22:52.000 Who says Netflix?

00:22:53.000 Netflix.

00:22:54.000 Okay.

00:22:55.000 Wow.

00:22:56.000 That's a really good.

00:22:57.000 You know whose topic that was?

00:22:58.000 Can you take it?

00:22:59.000 This guy right here.

00:23:00.000 All right.

00:23:01.000 Netflix turned Will gay.

00:23:03.000 I think this point is beyond dispute because Netflix made this show and one of the characters

00:23:09.000 is Will and they made him gay.

00:23:10.000 Now, they might have made the actor gay.

00:23:12.000 We don't know.

00:23:13.000 He worked for the company for a long time.

00:23:14.000 But what is also, I think, beyond dispute is they very likely made other people gay.

00:23:19.000 And the reason for this is that LGBT identity is not merely a matter of hereditary, you know,

00:23:25.000 born this way, immutable characteristics.

00:23:27.000 It's also a social phenomenon.

00:23:29.000 So, Gallup showed that between 2012 and 2021, LGBT identity doubled in the United States.

00:23:34.000 It's actually gone up even more since then.

00:23:37.000 30% of Gen Z now identifies as LGBT, which means there's either something in the water

00:23:42.000 or there are a lot of people in the closet for all of history.

00:23:45.000 Wait till you find how many left-handed people there are.

00:23:47.000 Or there's something going on in our popular culture.

00:23:49.000 Now, what's really strange about this is that we know that LGBT identity is not merely determined by genetics.

00:23:56.000 We know this because of some twin studies, which measure all sorts of diverse outcomes for twins,

00:24:00.000 including same-sex attraction, found that there's only a 20 to 37%.

00:24:04.000 I don't remember any of this in Stranger Things.

00:24:06.000 What are you going on?

00:24:07.000 You learned a lot from that show, Michael.

00:24:09.000 This was season four.

00:24:10.000 This was season four.

00:24:11.000 Well, actually, I looked this up.

00:24:12.000 I was surprised you picked this.

00:24:13.000 Hold on.

00:24:14.000 Let me finish my argument.

00:24:15.000 Well, you just want to rant about gay people.

00:24:16.000 Let's talk about Will, the best specific gay guy.

00:24:17.000 Hold on.

00:24:18.000 We'll get to Will.

00:24:19.000 I think all Will should be made gay, actually.

00:24:20.000 Twin studies show that LGBT identity, same-sex attraction,

00:24:23.000 is only 20 to 37% correlated with heredity, which means that there are other cultural factors here.

00:24:29.000 And there's one really funny study on this that came out of the Center for the Study of Partisanship and Ideology.

00:24:34.000 And it found that in the last, well, really between 2008 and 2018 or so, LGBT identity rose at twice the rate as actual LGBT behavior.

00:24:46.000 And among young liberals-

00:24:47.000 How do you define that?

00:24:48.000 Wait.

00:24:49.000 People identifying versus behavior.

00:24:50.000 Meaning they don't do gay stuff.

00:24:51.000 It's like gay people, but they don't do gay stuff.

00:24:53.000 Yeah.

00:24:54.000 Among young liberals, I'm not saying you guys, but among young liberals, they were three to four times as likely to say that they were gay even if they just did straight stuff.

00:25:04.000 Which means that there's a social contagion here.

00:25:06.000 You saw this especially with rapid onset gender dysphoria.

00:25:09.000 1500% increase in adolescent girls saying that they had gender dysphoria over a 10-year period.

00:25:14.000 So there's a social factor.

00:25:15.000 Netflix made Will gay.

00:25:16.000 They might have made the actor gay, and they probably made other people gay, too.

00:25:19.000 Take it away.

00:25:20.000 If you look this up, this is really interesting because it's like slam dunk, like you can't even prove.

00:25:24.000 Like Netflix got the script that was given to them.

00:25:26.000 And if you read the script, before they even touched it, Will was gay in the script.

00:25:30.000 In season one?

00:25:31.000 No.

00:25:32.000 Before it was sold to Netflix, the script, he was gay.

00:25:34.000 In season one, he's gay.

00:25:35.000 That's why-

00:25:36.000 He's not gay in season one.

00:25:37.000 He's gay.

00:25:38.000 He's absolutely gay in season one.

00:25:39.000 How is he gay in season one?

00:25:40.000 I can cite, look.

00:25:41.000 So his mom says, he's not like the other kids, you know.

00:25:42.000 His dad calls them queer and the-

00:25:43.000 What can I say?

00:25:44.000 I can't say the F word on you.

00:25:45.000 You can say it if you want.

00:25:46.000 It's a right wing audience.

00:25:47.000 Yeah.

00:25:48.000 But, you know, we're on YouTube, right?

00:25:50.000 Maybe not the N word.

00:25:51.000 His dad called him fag.

00:25:52.000 His dad called him queer.

00:25:53.000 We'll save that to you.

00:25:54.000 The other kid.

00:25:55.000 Oh, one of the police officers says he was probably killed by some other queer.

00:25:59.000 He's been bullied for being gay since the first episode of the show.

00:26:02.000 He's been gay the whole time.

00:26:03.000 Now, I will grant you this.

00:26:04.000 The scene in season five where he comes out was very corny.

00:26:07.000 Like that was the worst come out scene I've ever seen.

00:26:09.000 And I am a pro-gay person.

00:26:10.000 That was awful.

00:26:11.000 You know, just like, it was like the Lord of the Rings scene where they're like,

00:26:14.000 and my accent, I also support you for being gay.

00:26:16.000 And I was like, all right, this is a little much.

00:26:18.000 But he's been gay the whole time.

00:26:19.000 He's been gay before Netflix even touched it.

00:26:21.000 So as someone who knows that Netflix can make a lot of people gay,

00:26:23.000 this is one of the few times where they just kept him gay.

00:26:26.000 If anything, they were too subtle because you didn't even notice.

00:26:28.000 So my gaydar was a little off.

00:26:31.000 And, you know, I don't know.

00:26:32.000 I'm from New York and L.A.

00:26:33.000 And I went to a gay university.

00:26:35.000 Yeah, I was going to say, Michael,

00:26:36.000 I really appreciate you giving us the opportunity to talk about gay representation in media.

00:26:39.000 We star from House of Shades here, Michael Knowles.

00:26:41.000 Yeah.

00:26:42.000 You haven't seen him there.

00:26:43.000 I actually decided to look it up and watch it.

00:26:46.000 It's on YouTube.

00:26:47.000 I watched it on the plane.

00:26:48.000 That was a mistake.

00:26:49.000 When you came on in a blue thong,

00:26:50.000 that really threw the kid up next to me, next to me there.

00:26:52.000 I want you to know something.

00:26:53.000 So I just want to say, Michael,

00:26:54.000 you think a lot about people being gay in shows.

00:26:56.000 No, this is kind of my point.

00:26:57.000 You know, I was an actor as a young man.

00:26:59.000 And, you know, you play a baseball player,

00:27:01.000 no one thinks you're an athlete.

00:27:02.000 You play a soldier, no one thinks you're G.I. Joe.

00:27:04.000 You play one half gay guy and they call you a fanook for the rest of your life.

00:27:07.000 But I want you to know that my Yale thesis film,

00:27:10.000 and that's the most heterosexual thing ever produced by Yale University.

00:27:13.000 Michael, the problem was, no offense, your acting is really bad.

00:27:16.000 If you're a better actor, you wouldn't be here doing this bar fight show.

00:27:19.000 And the one convincing thing in that whole film

00:27:21.000 was how much you were coming onto that guy.

00:27:23.000 That was the only thing I thought.

00:27:24.000 I was like, wow, that looks like, and I'm in the Bay Area,

00:27:26.000 that looks like a gay guy being interested in another guy.

00:27:28.000 Hold on, I actually, I have expert witness on this.

00:27:30.000 I heard from a friend of mine, Milo Yiannopoulos,

00:27:33.000 who was gay and now he's not really gay anymore.

00:27:35.000 And he's still gay.

00:27:36.000 No, but Milo, no, he doesn't do it.

00:27:38.000 He's got a whole counter about it.

00:27:39.000 But Milo wrote to me, he said,

00:27:40.000 Michael, I want you to know, as someone who has experience with this,

00:27:43.000 your performance as a homosexual was entirely unconvincing.

00:27:47.000 So, look, I tap dance, I play ukulele, I like Cole Porter.

00:27:51.000 But I'm telling you, I'm trying to put myself in the position

00:27:54.000 of sympathizing with the LGBTs,

00:27:57.000 and what I'm saying is a lot of it is kind of fake.

00:28:00.000 So, I think a big problem with this too,

00:28:01.000 and Michael likes to cite this idea of like,

00:28:03.000 oh my God, like LGBTQ identity has exploded over the past.

00:28:06.000 Are you doing this gay accent right now

00:28:08.000 when you're imitating Michael?

00:28:09.000 I could, you know.

00:28:10.000 That just came out accidentally with him, I think.

00:28:12.000 You know, maybe.

00:28:13.000 You might have to show me some conversion therapy methods

00:28:15.000 that got you where you are.

00:28:16.000 But I think if we're talking about this specifically here.

00:28:18.000 Listen to this homophobia from this liberal.

00:28:20.000 You scratch the lips beneath the surface.

00:28:22.000 This guy's using the word fag.

00:28:24.000 This guy's making homophobic jokes.

00:28:26.000 Yeah.

00:28:27.000 I kind of like it, actually.

00:28:28.000 That works.

00:28:29.000 But I think it's really interesting.

00:28:30.000 And if you want to claim that there's like

00:28:31.000 some social contagion element to what's going on,

00:28:33.000 I wouldn't even necessarily entirely disagree with you there.

00:28:35.000 I do think that, for example, like, you know,

00:28:37.000 if a couple people, you know, yeah.

00:28:39.000 That's very reasonable of you to say.

00:28:40.000 I'm very surprised to hear that.

00:28:41.000 However, you can't only attribute it to social contagion

00:28:44.000 because societal acceptance can also be a huge part of this.

00:28:47.000 For example, this is a really interesting thing I like to bring up

00:28:49.000 when people bring up the statistics of how many people now identify as gay.

00:28:52.000 Do you know how many people identified as being left handed in the 1950s?

00:28:57.000 Very few.

00:28:58.000 Yeah.

00:28:59.000 It was not that many at all.

00:29:00.000 When teachers stopped beating students for being left handed,

00:29:03.000 they actually started being okay being left handed and living that identity.

00:29:06.000 So I think claiming that somehow, oh, now there's more gay people.

00:29:09.000 Therefore, it's only due to the fact that it's become way more, you know,

00:29:12.000 fashionable or trendy to do so.

00:29:13.000 Just overlooks the fact that we live in a society that now gay marriage is legal.

00:29:17.000 Well, actually, Michael doesn't believe it exists.

00:29:19.000 It does.

00:29:20.000 It's legal, but it doesn't exist.

00:29:21.000 It's legal and it doesn't exist.

00:29:22.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:29:23.000 Hold on, but you admit.

00:29:24.000 So you would say there is a social contagion aspect.

00:29:26.000 Dude, I went to Oberlin, of course.

00:29:27.000 You don't think that 30% of people are gay?

00:29:29.000 30% of people are gay of Gen Z?

00:29:30.000 30% of Zoomers.

00:29:31.000 You don't think it's 30% are gay?

00:29:33.000 If we're talking about gay, do we mean like people who are only same-sex attracted

00:29:36.000 or are we talking about bisexuals too?

00:29:37.000 The whole rainbow.

00:29:38.000 The whole rainbow?

00:29:39.000 I think it'd be possible if 30% of people would also be bisexual.

00:29:41.000 I'm not saying it's just gay.

00:29:42.000 I'm not saying it's just gay.

00:29:43.000 Wait, I need to know like how the stat was calculated.

00:29:45.000 Like are there reformed gays like you or is it just people that are still gay?

00:29:49.000 I am not a homosexual.

00:29:51.000 Thank you very much.

00:29:52.000 That's why I said a reform.

00:29:53.000 That's what a reformed homo.

00:29:54.000 That's what Milo you're not part of the 30%.

00:29:55.000 No, he said he was a homosexual.

00:29:57.000 He said he's not.

00:29:58.000 There we go.

00:29:59.000 It's amazing.

00:30:00.000 These guys are just up here gay bashing me.

00:30:01.000 I got a wife and three kids.

00:30:02.000 Thank you very much.

00:30:03.000 We turn to the audience.

00:30:04.000 Good cover.

00:30:05.000 Michael, I guess the question I have for you is, was this seriously a real topic you

00:30:10.000 wanted to address?

00:30:11.000 Because who cares?

00:30:13.000 People are gay.

00:30:14.000 And Will being a gay character on a show, like we've had gay characters in movies and TV shows

00:30:19.000 for years, decades.

00:30:21.000 Since at least you were in college.

00:30:22.000 Yeah.

00:30:23.000 At least you were in college.

00:30:24.000 So I'm just curious why, why not bring up something of substance that's not just about

00:30:29.000 television or less entertaining.

00:30:30.000 Well, I'll remind you, you all voted for this topic.

00:30:32.000 And I, you know, this is what the libs always do.

00:30:35.000 I have to, I have to say they, they, they push something.

00:30:38.000 They change the social norms, be it with regard to transgenderism or homosexuality or feminism

00:30:43.000 or anything else.

00:30:44.000 They change the social norms.

00:30:45.000 They, they run massive campaigns for it.

00:30:47.000 And then the minute you look at that and you say, Hey, that's kind of weird.

00:30:50.000 Why are you doing that?

00:30:51.000 They say, why do you care so much?

00:30:52.000 And I say, well, you obviously care.

00:30:54.000 You're the one who changed the norms.

00:30:55.000 And I think in this case, look, obviously there have been a sort of a foppish or effeminate

00:31:00.000 characters in, in a theater going back to like Euripides, but you know, this is a little

00:31:05.000 bit different when it's a kid's show.

00:31:06.000 You're representing kids in these sexualized ways in deviant and aberrant ways.

00:31:10.000 I mean, we're all making gay jokes and stuff up here, but this is kind of weird, you know,

00:31:13.000 and same sex identity or same sex attraction and transgender identity, especially is associated

00:31:19.000 with a whole host of terrible psychological and social outcomes.

00:31:22.000 And so it just doesn't seem like a great thing.

00:31:23.000 Wait, Michael, wait, Will was, uh, you know, portrayed sexually in season five.

00:31:27.000 Yeah.

00:31:28.000 If I say I'm into woman, this is sexual.

00:31:33.000 Just if I say I'm straight, is that inherently sexual?

00:31:36.000 I think if you're talking about a five year old sexual desires or a 10 year olds or 12

00:31:40.000 year olds, I think it's weird and creepy.

00:31:41.000 Yeah.

00:31:42.000 Will is like 17 in the show.

00:31:43.000 I don't know.

00:31:44.000 By the way, Michael.

00:31:45.000 In season one, he wasn't saying I'm gay.

00:31:47.000 I just have to bring up Michael.

00:31:48.000 You said kid shows.

00:31:49.000 Yeah.

00:31:50.000 You can be gay when you're a kid.

00:31:51.000 Stranger Things is not a kid show.

00:31:52.000 It's horror and adult theme.

00:31:54.000 Wait, I got to push back.

00:31:55.000 It's for babies.

00:31:56.000 It's written horribly.

00:31:57.000 Oh, okay.

00:31:58.000 Yeah.

00:31:59.000 It's a terrible show.

00:32:00.000 And it was inspired.

00:32:01.000 It's not terrible because he's gay, by the way.

00:32:02.000 And it was inspired by Stephen King's works.

00:32:04.000 And I don't think kids are reading Stephen King or they should be, or at least.

00:32:08.000 You don't think.

00:32:09.000 Have you read it?

00:32:10.000 You don't think kids like Stranger Things?

00:32:11.000 Well, I'm sure they do, but it's not catered to them.

00:32:13.000 But it's not catered to them.

00:32:14.000 Like a kid calling himself gay.

00:32:15.000 I think that's even creepier.

00:32:16.000 And my only point is, it's obviously a social contagion.

00:32:19.000 You saw most especially with the transgender ideology, which is why a 1500% increase in

00:32:24.000 adolescent girls saying they have gender dysphoria in like 10 years is absurd.

00:32:28.000 There's obviously something going on.

00:32:29.000 And maybe we can just acknowledge that fact and try to do something about it to discourage

00:32:34.000 it rather than encourage it.

00:32:35.000 And do you agree that it's possible at least that there could be some acceptance aspect to

00:32:39.000 it?

00:32:40.000 I think there's a topic of people who are gay and they, and you can acknowledge them

00:32:43.000 as being gay.

00:32:44.000 And there might be some people who are like, oh, wow, you know, oh my God, I'm going to

00:32:47.000 a camp with all girls.

00:32:48.000 And now one of them has she, they pronouns.

00:32:49.000 Now everyone has she, they pronouns.

00:32:50.000 Like, yeah, like I understand that that can happen.

00:32:52.000 Now how detrimental it really is once everyone goes home and, you know, figures it out.

00:32:56.000 Can you also argue that it became less acceptable to be straight?

00:32:59.000 No.

00:33:00.000 Definitely.

00:33:01.000 What?

00:33:02.000 No, I did actually.

00:33:03.000 Well, that's why based on that study that I just cited of straight guys and especially liberal

00:33:07.000 who are in the rainbow coalition trying to pretend that they're LGBT, I think that's

00:33:11.000 proof of that.

00:33:12.000 Because a lot of them, they'll say they're queer and not gay.

00:33:14.000 For the entirety of the history.

00:33:15.000 Okay.

00:33:16.000 That's not new.

00:33:17.000 Right.

00:33:18.000 But it's weird that they're lying that they're gay in order to get, that's like a change.

00:33:20.000 And anyway, I think that's why it's worth noting is it is, you know, sex is very important

00:33:24.000 to human nature.

00:33:25.000 And when you massively upheave all of sexual identity, that's a notable phenomenon.

00:33:30.000 Okay.

00:33:31.000 I do have a question about this topic, sort of.

00:33:36.000 But first I want to say or point out that it does make all the difference in the world

00:33:43.000 with regard to the previous topic.

00:33:45.000 Oh, he's going back to immigration.

00:33:46.000 Yeah.

00:33:47.000 We're going to go back to immigration.

00:33:48.000 You were the one screaming at the table over there, weren't you?

00:33:50.000 I was.

00:33:51.000 Okay.

00:33:52.000 And I ran out of time on the last one.

00:33:53.000 So I got told to come up to the mic this time.

00:33:55.000 We can go back.

00:33:56.000 Yeah, we're going to go back.

00:33:57.000 Go for it.

00:33:58.000 The point is that it does make all the difference in the world.

00:34:01.000 The fact that they, it doesn't matter if they are here legally, they are not citizens.

00:34:06.000 No, they are citizens.

00:34:07.000 No, they are not.

00:34:08.000 No, they are not.

00:34:09.000 No, they are not.

00:34:10.000 No, they are not.

00:34:11.000 No, they are not.

00:34:12.000 No, no, no.

00:34:13.000 No, no, no.

00:34:14.000 Leave them with temporary protected status or a refugee.

00:34:17.000 Quiet.

00:34:18.000 Quiet.

00:34:19.000 Quiet.

00:34:20.000 Quiet.

00:34:21.000 Any of those things is not a citizen.

00:34:22.000 If they are a citizen, then the Constitution applies.

00:34:24.000 Wait.

00:34:25.000 No, no, no.

00:34:26.000 I have to address this.

00:34:27.000 I have to address this.

00:34:28.000 No, no, no.

00:34:29.000 No, fine.

00:34:30.000 Do you think the Constitution only applies to citizens?

00:34:33.000 Yes or no?

00:34:34.000 Yes.

00:34:35.000 No more.

00:34:36.000 Well, I'm sorry.

00:34:37.000 We have a lot of people.

00:34:38.000 We have a lot of people who don't know the Constitution very well in this country.

00:34:40.000 There are two centuries of case law to support that.

00:34:42.000 Some of it doesn't.

00:34:43.000 Yeah, yeah, but no, no.

00:34:44.000 It actually doesn't.

00:34:45.000 There are two centuries of case law to support that.

00:34:46.000 Excuse me, sir.

00:34:47.000 What is the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution?

00:34:48.000 No.

00:34:49.000 I'm sorry.

00:34:50.000 Tell me what it is.

00:34:51.000 Tell me what it is.

00:34:52.000 You guys know all about the Constitution.

00:34:53.000 No, no, no, no, no.

00:34:54.000 I'm sorry.

00:34:55.000 You get confused with the commandments.

00:34:56.000 What's the Fifth Amendment?

00:34:57.000 Ask him.

00:34:58.000 Does he know?

00:34:59.000 You know?

00:35:00.000 What's the Fifth Amendment?

00:35:01.000 You know?

00:35:02.000 What's the Fifth Amendment?

00:35:03.000 You're asking me?

00:35:04.000 Yeah, because you're a citizen, so maybe you should know this stuff about it.

00:35:08.000 Which, by the way, all the Somali legal standards absolutely know it.

00:35:11.000 Well, if you have to become a naturalized citizen, you actually have to learn a lot more.

00:35:15.000 I'm asking about that.

00:35:16.000 He's a native born American citizen.

00:35:17.000 Yeah, so he actually probably knows less about this country than someone who gets naturalized

00:35:19.000 in here.

00:35:20.000 And he's entitled to more of the rights of an American citizen.

00:35:22.000 The point that I'm bringing up here when we talk about the Fifth Amendment is the Fifth

00:35:25.000 Amendment states that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process

00:35:29.000 of law.

00:35:30.000 It does not clarify citizens.

00:35:31.000 There are specific rights that are reserved to citizens.

00:35:34.000 Due process is not one of them.

00:35:35.000 You're right.

00:35:36.000 That's why those Somalis are being prosecuted right now.

00:35:38.000 Yeah, and it is very important that everyone has due process.

00:35:41.000 Because if not everyone has due process, then none of us have due process.

00:35:45.000 Because someone can say that you're not a citizen.

00:35:47.000 And if you don't have recourse to fight that in the courts, you're f***ed.

00:35:51.000 Hold on.

00:35:52.000 You're right that these Somalis have due process.

00:35:55.000 Thank you.

00:35:56.000 There's a point that, you know, if we don't give due process to random Somalis, none of

00:35:59.000 the American citizens.

00:36:00.000 Like, yes, we could.

00:36:01.000 Why not?

00:36:02.000 Hold on.

00:36:03.000 Why couldn't we just say we'll give it to the citizens and not-

00:36:04.000 How do you know whether they're a random Somali or they are someone who has either

00:36:08.000 legal protective status or a citizen?

00:36:09.000 You verify their identity.

00:36:10.000 Oh, cool.

00:36:11.000 And how do you verify their identity?

00:36:12.000 Hold on.

00:36:13.000 Check their ID and their immigration status.

00:36:16.000 Who does that?

00:36:17.000 The government.

00:36:18.000 The government.

00:36:19.000 So you're trusting the government to have unchecked power and to police itself.

00:36:23.000 We trust the government to enact our due process.

00:36:26.000 Hold on.

00:36:27.000 Yeah.

00:36:28.000 And that's due process.

00:36:29.000 And having the government and having the courts oversee that.

00:36:32.000 Right.

00:36:33.000 And you trust the government to conduct trials?

00:36:36.000 I think you're undermining your own argument.

00:36:38.000 I trust the government to conduct trials more than I trust the government to not conduct

00:36:42.000 trials.

00:36:43.000 Okay?

00:36:44.000 If we're going to have trial or not have trial-

00:36:46.000 I don't know if I follow that.

00:36:47.000 Who else is in charge?

00:36:48.000 I'm not subject to the Constitution of France.

00:36:51.000 I don't know enough about the France.

00:36:53.000 You would be if you were in France.

00:36:54.000 A couple things.

00:36:55.000 A couple things.

00:36:56.000 It's about the people in America.

00:36:57.000 The Constitution of America is about American citizens.

00:36:58.000 It applies to people who are in America.

00:37:00.000 But first off, I don't know enough about the French Constitution, nor that's the case.

00:37:03.000 But look how many American flags I have on me.

00:37:05.000 I think America's better.

00:37:06.000 The lady don't protest too much, I think.

00:37:08.000 I don't know about that.

00:37:09.000 One of the things that makes America better than other countries is the fact that we extend

00:37:13.000 the rights of our Constitution to all individuals who reside within this country, regardless

00:37:17.000 of protected status.

00:37:18.000 Because that's actually what determines whether you are a citizen or have protected status.

00:37:22.000 If you don't have due process, you do not have recourse to fight a government that

00:37:26.000 tells you that you are somehow now not a citizen.

00:37:28.000 Due process, just as a point of fact, due process did not make me or anyone in this room

00:37:32.000 a citizen.

00:37:33.000 Wait, I didn't say that.

00:37:34.000 I thought that's what you said.

00:37:35.000 I said, it determines whether you're a citizen.

00:37:37.000 Right, it didn't.

00:37:38.000 And there's no way for...

00:37:39.000 Yes, it does.

00:37:40.000 No.

00:37:41.000 Because if you, if someone picks you up, if ICE picks you up off the street and says,

00:37:44.000 you are not a citizen, we are going to deport you, and you don't automatically have a

00:37:47.000 right to contest that in court, what are they going to do?

00:37:49.000 Yeah, like I know you identify as white, Michael, but you could pass as some sort of Southern

00:37:53.000 American.

00:37:54.000 I can't.

00:37:55.000 You're socially liminal people.

00:37:56.000 There's no doubt about it.

00:37:57.000 And the only way to make sure that you are a citizen is due process, which we're all entitled

00:37:59.000 to.

00:38:00.000 Do I look Somali?

00:38:01.000 Uh, no.

00:38:02.000 No, I don't.

00:38:03.000 No, you don't.

00:38:04.000 I've been practicing my gooky geeky gah kahan solo, but I don't have the Somali language

00:38:07.000 either.

00:38:08.000 Yes, next question.

00:38:09.000 Anyway, I'd trade that guy for like five Somalians.

00:38:10.000 Can I bring it back to Netflix for one second?

00:38:12.000 Can you do what for one second?

00:38:13.000 Back to Netflix for one second?

00:38:14.000 Yeah, okay.

00:38:15.000 Bring it back.

00:38:16.000 So I know that it's a pretty big push that Netflix is making Will gay is a win for the

00:38:21.000 left, but it's odd that the only-

00:38:23.000 From who?

00:38:24.000 Wait, who said it's a win for the left?

00:38:25.000 Who the hell is saying-

00:38:26.000 Why did they do it?

00:38:27.000 Oh, good.

00:38:28.000 Finally, we have the Will coming out soon.

00:38:29.000 Everyone hated that.

00:38:30.000 Queer representation and all that.

00:38:31.000 He's been gay since season one.

00:38:32.000 That's when they celebrated.

00:38:33.000 Season five, they're like, wow, this sucks.

00:38:34.000 What I was going to point out was that the fact that the only, the main gay character

00:38:37.000 in the show is the one that has a demon inside of it.

00:38:40.000 Yeah.

00:38:41.000 He was traumatized by a demon for his whole life.

00:38:42.000 Yeah.

00:38:43.000 Well, to be fair, he was gay before the demon and the demon didn't make him un-gay.

00:38:46.000 So it didn't really have an effect one way or the other.

00:38:48.000 You're right.

00:38:49.000 Is this, this is like the Straussian reading of Netflix, that it's like a super based,

00:38:53.000 trad, homophobic read of how you become gay.

00:38:56.000 Wow.

00:38:57.000 Crazy.

00:38:58.000 So wait, when you said Netflix turned Will gay, is that like an acknowledgement of how

00:39:01.000 people become gay and that's a good thing or you're not a fan of it?

00:39:04.000 No.

00:39:05.000 Well, he made me rethink it.

00:39:06.000 I thought it was bad, but now he's making me think it might be good.

00:39:08.000 That's really thoughtful.

00:39:09.000 I, it's tough.

00:39:10.000 Cause I, I, all right, before we pick the best commenter and questioner, uh, first we have to

00:39:15.000 figure out who won the round.

00:39:18.000 Was it the libs?

00:39:19.000 Raise your blue cards.

00:39:20.000 Oh man.

00:39:21.000 My kind of night.

00:39:22.000 Okay.

00:39:23.000 All right.

00:39:24.000 We got, there we go.

00:39:25.000 Uh, was it, was it the me, the red cards?

00:39:28.000 All right.

00:39:29.000 Whoa.

00:39:30.000 I got to start having these of my own so I can be self congratulated on this.

00:39:33.000 This is, this is great.

00:39:34.000 Yeah.

00:39:35.000 I stack a room with people who support me and they tell me how much they love me.

00:39:38.000 It was almost like a Trump rally.

00:39:39.000 Pretty good.

00:39:40.000 Yeah.

00:39:41.000 Incredible.

00:39:42.000 All right.

00:39:43.000 Raise your card.

00:39:44.000 If I'm really handsome.

00:39:45.000 Yeah.

00:39:46.000 It took a minute.

00:39:47.000 That was, I was uncomfortable about that.

00:39:48.000 Okay.

00:39:49.000 So that's great.

00:39:50.000 I won.

00:39:51.000 Now, who was the best commenter?

00:39:52.000 I'm kind of torn.

00:39:53.000 The screamer.

00:39:54.000 I want to hear more about the terrible ideas that he has.

00:39:56.000 I thought this was the screamer.

00:39:58.000 Oh yeah.

00:39:59.000 There we go.

00:40:00.000 All right.

00:40:01.000 The last guy with the esoteric reading of Netflix being homophobic.

00:40:04.000 That went over their heads.

00:40:05.000 I don't think they picked up on that one, Michael.

00:40:06.000 The last guy.

00:40:07.000 No.

00:40:08.000 Okay.

00:40:09.000 Was it the first guy?

00:40:10.000 The thought.

00:40:11.000 Whoa.

00:40:12.000 That, but that first question was too calm and thoughtful.

00:40:15.000 I can't imagine.

00:40:16.000 So it was the first guy.

00:40:17.000 Yeah.

00:40:18.000 All right.

00:40:19.000 Okay.

00:40:20.000 It was the first guy.

00:40:21.000 Is the screamer even still here?

00:40:22.000 Man, that was a total fake out for the screamer.

00:40:23.000 I don't even, I don't know.

00:40:24.000 Is he still here?

00:40:25.000 Yeah.

00:40:26.000 I kind of.

00:40:27.000 All right.

00:40:28.000 He's being abnormally quiet.

00:40:29.000 I just use echolocation to find where you enjoy your redneck Riviera bourbon, please.

00:40:36.000 As well as a Mayflower cigar.

00:40:37.000 It is now time for round three.

00:40:48.000 All right.

00:40:49.000 We're coming.

00:40:50.000 Is this the end?

00:40:51.000 This is the last one.

00:40:52.000 There's a lot of stakes here.

00:40:53.000 Vaccines are bad.

00:40:54.000 Where's that one guy?

00:40:55.000 He must've died.

00:40:56.000 No.

00:40:57.000 Yeah.

00:40:58.000 I'm not being vaccinated.

00:40:59.000 No.

00:41:00.000 Uh, gay marriage is fake.

00:41:04.000 Okay.

00:41:05.000 Uh, I guess we alluded to that one earlier.

00:41:07.000 Uh, Trump's economic policies are awesome.

00:41:11.000 They're, they're all feeling it.

00:41:12.000 They don't want to cheer for it.

00:41:13.000 All right.

00:41:14.000 Now, uh, white people were treated unfairly after the civil rights act.

00:41:18.000 Yeah.

00:41:19.000 White people.

00:41:20.000 A little more than white people.

00:41:21.000 Yeah.

00:41:22.000 This is a very gay show.

00:41:23.000 If we're doing, are we going to do it?

00:41:25.000 It's good.

00:41:26.000 It's the gay marriage ones.

00:41:27.000 Well, Michael talks a lot about it.

00:41:28.000 All right.

00:41:29.000 Okay.

00:41:30.000 That's fine.

00:41:31.000 Uh, okay.

00:41:32.000 So whose topic was that?

00:41:33.000 Which one?

00:41:34.000 Well, you changed all the topics.

00:41:35.000 You read it your way.

00:41:36.000 You read it your way.

00:41:37.000 I was trying to hide it.

00:41:38.000 Mine was exactly was if God hated gay people, he wouldn't keep making them.

00:41:41.000 Gay marriage exists, whether you like it or not.

00:41:43.000 And if you don't like it, you can leave.

00:41:45.000 Okay.

00:41:46.000 Interesting.

00:41:47.000 Those are two topics.

00:41:48.000 They are.

00:41:49.000 They are.

00:41:50.000 So which one do you want to focus?

00:41:51.000 Uh, we can focus more on the second one.

00:41:52.000 Uh, the first one we don't, you know, we didn't talk about.

00:41:53.000 Okay.

00:41:54.000 So the topic is the topic is the topic is that gay marriage does in fact exist, no matter

00:41:57.000 how much Michael wants to pretend that it doesn't.

00:41:59.000 Um, and yeah, that if you don't like it, then I don't know, be in one of those countries

00:42:03.000 that doesn't support gay marriage that you guys also seemingly don't like Iran.

00:42:06.000 Okay.

00:42:07.000 Yeah.

00:42:08.000 Iran fans of Iran fans of the Middle East.

00:42:10.000 I don't know.

00:42:11.000 You know, there's not much gay marriage going on in those countries.

00:42:12.000 Okay.

00:42:13.000 So what's the argument?

00:42:14.000 What my argument here is basically that Michael likes to do this thing where he makes

00:42:16.000 a very, I'm, I'm, I'm, well, am I responding to Michael Knowles and the arguments that Michael

00:42:21.000 Knowles has made or I don't know.

00:42:22.000 Are you?

00:42:23.000 I'm going to do that actually.

00:42:24.000 So when we're talking specifically about the arguments that Michael makes, what he

00:42:26.000 likes to do is he likes to define what marriage is very specifically to involve

00:42:29.000 a marriage that is, or a relationship that is ordered towards procreation and sex.

00:42:34.000 I think that is a very myopic view of marriage that doesn't encapsulate many marriages

00:42:38.000 that people exist in and have happier relationships with.

00:42:41.000 So what Michael's probably going to do is he'd be like, well, if it's not sex, what

00:42:44.000 is it?

00:42:45.000 And I'm like, well, you know, it's a partnership and he'll like pretend, you know, I don't

00:42:47.000 even need to be here.

00:42:48.000 I'm going to debate for you.

00:42:49.000 It's going to be great.

00:42:50.000 You can just listen.

00:42:51.000 Well, basically my argument, my argument that I'm making here is that gay marriage exists.

00:42:56.000 Michael can argue in some esoteric sense that it doesn't because even though people have

00:42:59.000 been legally recognized as being married, they in fact did.

00:43:02.000 We can get into if you want your bullshit studies about how like it's bad for children

00:43:06.000 when literally only two out of the 238 children who were studied in that actually had two long-term

00:43:11.000 homosexual parents, all the other ones.

00:43:12.000 Who are studying what?

00:43:13.000 We're studying the 2012 Regeneres study that you bring up from the new family structure

00:43:17.000 study.

00:43:18.000 What about the 1996 study out of Australia, the 2013 study out of Canada?

00:43:20.000 Yeah, I'm talking about the one that you bring up most frequently.

00:43:22.000 We can talk about the other ones.

00:43:23.000 I bring up a dozen of them.

00:43:24.000 You bring up this one specifically.

00:43:25.000 So I'm more talking about the marriage is a complex thing and it can mean a lot of different

00:43:29.000 things to a lot of different people.

00:43:30.000 And the fact that gay people want to get married isn't a threat to your straight marriage.

00:43:33.000 If it is, your marriage isn't that strong in the first place.

00:43:35.000 Okay.

00:43:36.000 I'm willing to interject in this debate you're having with me through you.

00:43:40.000 Uh, so I, you know, it's true that kids don't do well with same sex parents, but, but that's

00:43:45.000 actually secondary to your point, which is gay marriage exists.

00:43:48.000 I guess my argument is gay marriage doesn't really exist in the way that a square circle

00:43:54.000 doesn't really exist.

00:43:55.000 Uh, a lawmaker could come out and say, I passed the square circle law.

00:43:59.000 And a judge could come out and say, we defend protections for square circles, but nevertheless,

00:44:04.000 square circles would not exist.

00:44:06.000 And so it seems to me it is intrinsic to the nature of marriage that it's a union between

00:44:10.000 a man and a woman ordered toward the procreation and education of children.

00:44:14.000 My evidence for this is that is what distinguishes marriage from other kinds of relationships,

00:44:19.000 friends, siblings, uh, roommates, all the rest coworkers.

00:44:23.000 But furthermore, some of my evidence is that that is how marriage, well, uh, the word matrimony

00:44:28.000 comes from the Latin word mater, which means mother.

00:44:30.000 So it's facially absurd for two men to be in a matrimony.

00:44:33.000 There's no lady there, but then my historical evidence would be throughout all of, uh, all

00:44:39.000 of human history, every single place in the entire world, uh, marriage has always meant

00:44:43.000 the union of a man and a woman for these purposes.

00:44:46.000 And that, that only began to change in 2001 in the Netherlands and then 14 years later

00:44:51.000 in the United States.

00:44:52.000 And I think they probably just got it wrong.

00:44:55.000 Uh, it seems to me that, uh, if, uh, marriage does not mean what we have always understood

00:45:01.000 everywhere across religions, across cultures, if we don't understand what it means, then marriage

00:45:05.000 then marriage just loses its meaning.

00:45:07.000 It is no different from a dating relationship or a, uh, I don't know, a business partnership

00:45:12.000 or any other kind of relationship.

00:45:14.000 So you don't end up expanding marriage.

00:45:16.000 You abolish marriage altogether.

00:45:18.000 I want to respond to that in multiple ways.

00:45:20.000 One.

00:45:21.000 So you're focused on this idea that it's ordered towards the procreation of children and this

00:45:24.000 idea.

00:45:25.000 Um, if we're talking specifically, let's say that a couple decides that they never want

00:45:29.000 to have children.

00:45:30.000 Let's say they even, uh, have both get, uh, both get a hysterectomy or not both get a hysterectomy.

00:45:34.000 Well, that would be a little weird.

00:45:35.000 If they, if, if, if, if, if they become infertile, if they become, if they, yeah.

00:45:39.000 So if, if, if, if they both become infertile or have those procedures done and they get married,

00:45:43.000 would you support that marriage even existing?

00:45:45.000 Because it can't be procreative.

00:45:46.000 It literally can't ever.

00:45:48.000 Um, and it's still between a man and a woman, but it removes that aspect.

00:45:51.000 Are you just against that type of marriage?

00:45:52.000 I suppose.

00:45:53.000 I mean, if a couple merely suffers infertility, that obviously would not contradict the definition

00:45:57.000 of marriage as being ordered toward procreation and the education of children.

00:46:01.000 But if a couple goes in, they say, we're going to get married, but we never want to

00:46:04.000 have children.

00:46:05.000 We both want to get hysterectomies or whatever.

00:46:07.000 And, uh, so we don't want that.

00:46:09.000 I would say at a very, very deep level, that is contrary to the nature of marriage.

00:46:13.000 But because.

00:46:14.000 Can I get married?

00:46:15.000 Are you making an ontological?

00:46:16.000 I'm happy to.

00:46:17.000 He is making an ontological argument.

00:46:18.000 Uh, yeah, I am touching on ontology because it's about the, what, what it really is.

00:46:21.000 You should explain it.

00:46:22.000 Okay.

00:46:23.000 How do you do that though?

00:46:24.000 Like, how are you going to make an ontological argument about marriage if it's, if how we

00:46:28.000 define marriage naturally in all these societies is how we come to a union with people and

00:46:33.000 they make an agreement?

00:46:34.000 Well, that's not how I define it.

00:46:35.000 How do you go beyond that?

00:46:36.000 Well, with ontology, I guess, I, I, you know, I was speaking about nature.

00:46:40.000 So the question you're using a very fancy word, ontological, meaning pertaining to the

00:46:45.000 nature of being or what it really is.

00:46:47.000 And I suppose the disagreement here is many people who support so-called same-sex marriage

00:46:51.000 think that words can mean whatever we say they mean.

00:46:53.000 Kind of like Humpty Dumpty, Alice in Wonderland.

00:46:54.000 That's kind of how words work, Michael.

00:46:55.000 They evolve over time.

00:46:56.000 You're like, words can mean whatever you want them to mean.

00:46:58.000 They kind of can.

00:46:59.000 They can mean whatever you say they mean.

00:47:00.000 Well, sure.

00:47:01.000 They can evolve just like how they evolve.

00:47:02.000 Is the distinction for marriage just if you intend to have kids?

00:47:06.000 No.

00:47:07.000 What is that?

00:47:08.000 So to answer your earlier question, which is a very good question.

00:47:11.000 If a couple goes in and they say, we don't want children or we don't think we want children

00:47:15.000 or whatever, as a matter of the civil law, which has to be a little bit broader than

00:47:19.000 the purest form of ontology, say, I would say, yeah, that's fine because the union of

00:47:24.000 a man and a woman in itself is ordered toward the procreation because they can bump uglies

00:47:28.000 and that's, you know, birds do it, bees do it.

00:47:30.000 Uh, so I would, I would, I would err on the side of grace there.

00:47:33.000 When we're talking about things of different natures, when we're talking about not just,

00:47:36.000 you know, a liberal man and woman who want to go to brunch more often, but like two fellas

00:47:40.000 or two ladies or three guys in a billy goat, that is fundamentally different.

00:47:44.000 And I think that stretches the definition of marriage beyond any coherence.

00:47:47.000 What about like the president having three different marriages and cheating on his wife?

00:47:50.000 Is that like a more valid marriage than two guys who have never cheated on each other

00:47:54.000 and have two adopted wonderful children?

00:47:56.000 Yeah.

00:47:57.000 I'm certainly opposed to divorce.

00:47:58.000 I think divorce is bad.

00:47:59.000 I think it's bad that we liberalize.

00:48:00.000 You're against like, just, I'm going to make it very clear.

00:48:03.000 You're against no fault divorce.

00:48:04.000 Right.

00:48:05.000 Not against all forms of divorce.

00:48:06.000 Well, I, I actually don't really believe in divorce cause I'm a Catholic, but I guess

00:48:10.000 we have to.

00:48:11.000 If that's true, why do Republicans keep getting divorced?

00:48:13.000 Say it again.

00:48:14.000 Why don't like every Republican keep getting divorced?

00:48:15.000 Like Steven Crowder, like Donald Trump.

00:48:17.000 Like why do they keep doing it?

00:48:18.000 I mean, look, the divorce rates have risen in recent decades because of the law, largely.

00:48:22.000 So it's hard to take your marriage position seriously when your entire party says, oh,

00:48:26.000 that's not valid marriage.

00:48:27.000 When I see tons of happy gay couples, you guys can't seem to hold down a wife.

00:48:30.000 I mean, I'll give you like five, 10 years.

00:48:32.000 I don't know.

00:48:33.000 What are you talking about?

00:48:34.000 For now?

00:48:35.000 You're only 35.

00:48:36.000 I'm Catholic.

00:48:37.000 The only way she gets rid of me is if she puts the pillow over my head at night.

00:48:40.000 Okay.

00:48:41.000 It's time to get to the audience question.

00:48:42.000 All right.

00:48:43.000 Here's a fun one.

00:48:44.000 So I actually just got married three ish weeks ago.

00:48:45.000 Hey, all right.

00:48:48.000 Wait, wait, wait, Michael.

00:48:49.000 He didn't say, he didn't say if it was gay or not.

00:48:52.000 He didn't say it was gay or not.

00:48:53.000 Yeah.

00:48:54.000 Are you sure?

00:48:55.000 Did you get married to a lady or?

00:48:56.000 A beautiful lady blonde.

00:48:57.000 Now we're talking.

00:48:58.000 All right.

00:48:59.000 A real one.

00:49:00.000 I'm going to have to see the chromosome chart on that one.

00:49:02.000 I'm not a fan.

00:49:03.000 Here's the fun one.

00:49:04.000 Ready?

00:49:05.000 My radical twin brother is as gay as the day is long.

00:49:08.000 Wow.

00:49:09.000 See, that's what I was just talking about.

00:49:11.000 So we actually got in a debate the other day after we got married because I met my wife

00:49:15.000 in March.

00:49:16.000 I saw her and went wife.

00:49:18.000 We dated long distance from Nashville to LA.

00:49:20.000 I got her to move here.

00:49:21.000 Let's go.

00:49:22.000 And we got married real quick.

00:49:24.000 And so we did start debating.

00:49:26.000 And I straight up said the difference between straight marriage and gay marriage is straight

00:49:30.000 marriage is like actually marriage versus gay marriage is more of a legal definition.

00:49:34.000 Yeah.

00:49:35.000 Because there was a lot of gay couples who just wanted the benefits that the government

00:49:39.000 was giving them.

00:49:40.000 Yeah.

00:49:41.000 The difference is the like Christians and religious folk believe that marriage is a

00:49:47.000 thing ordained by their God, whoever's God they follow.

00:49:50.000 The real one.

00:49:51.000 In my case.

00:49:52.000 Yeah.

00:49:53.000 If you want to like define it that way, if you want to have like your special, like,

00:49:56.000 well, mine's the real one.

00:49:57.000 And that makes you feel better.

00:49:58.000 Like, that's fine.

00:49:59.000 I mean, just don't ask us to pretend like the gay people aren't married.

00:50:02.000 Well, I know.

00:50:03.000 The reason I say God exists is because it's true and knowable by human reason.

00:50:07.000 Do you have a source for that?

00:50:08.000 Say it again.

00:50:09.000 Do you have a source?

00:50:10.000 I do actually.

00:50:11.000 Aquinas is five ways.

00:50:12.000 Aquinas.

00:50:13.000 We're talking about Aquinas?

00:50:14.000 Hold on.

00:50:15.000 No, no.

00:50:16.000 Did you guys know Aquinas thought that rape was not as bad as masturbation?

00:50:20.000 You know, that's true that because if you, if you didn't know this, actually, I'm going

00:50:23.000 to finish this point because he's a Catholic.

00:50:24.000 He got some crazy things.

00:50:25.000 He has to defend if he's going to be a Catholic here.

00:50:26.000 If we're talking specifically about Aquinas, he said that rape in circumstances is not as

00:50:30.000 bad as masturbation because rape actually can be a procreative act if it's between a

00:50:34.000 man and a woman.

00:50:35.000 Masturbation is always a mortal sin.

00:50:37.000 So I'm just curious, Michael.

00:50:38.000 Why did you say that?

00:50:39.000 Because it's not ordered towards reproduction.

00:50:40.000 No, it's contrary to nature.

00:50:41.000 It's contrary to nature.

00:50:42.000 And rape isn't contrary to nature.

00:50:43.000 So when you base it off natural law, you end up defending things as rape being worse than

00:50:47.000 masturbation.

00:50:48.000 It's a dangerous thing.

00:50:49.000 Drink deep or taste not the Purian spring.

00:50:51.000 You know, Plato said that seduction was worse than rape.

00:50:54.000 Yeah.

00:50:55.000 That's probably not good.

00:50:56.000 For the same kinds of reasons because to, uh, to-

00:50:58.000 Do you agree with that?

00:50:59.000 Yeah, but the difference is-

00:51:00.000 We don't worship Plato.

00:51:01.000 I don't understand that.

00:51:02.000 Did you agree with that?

00:51:03.000 Oh, he makes a very good point.

00:51:04.000 So you agree that seduction is worse than rape?

00:51:05.000 Well, the way-

00:51:06.000 It's a yes or no question, Michael.

00:51:07.000 He doesn't want to let me finish.

00:51:08.000 No, it's actually, it's kind of a yes or no question.

00:51:11.000 It's really simple thing.

00:51:12.000 Like, is, like, is marriage from between a man and woman the same thing as man and man?

00:51:17.000 What do you mean same?

00:51:18.000 I mean, no, it's a man and a woman and a man and a man.

00:51:20.000 So it's not, so it's different.

00:51:21.000 Therefore-

00:51:22.000 Thank you.

00:51:23.000 They should be separate.

00:51:24.000 Wait, hold on.

00:51:25.000 They are, they can be separate in whatever religious sense you want.

00:51:28.000 No one's claiming-

00:51:29.000 No, no, but he's asking, are they the same?

00:51:30.000 So it is a very good question.

00:51:31.000 Of course they're not the same.

00:51:32.000 The same way I'm not the same as him and I'm not the same as you and neither two marriage

00:51:36.000 is the same.

00:51:37.000 Let me explain, because you're, you're bringing up Thomas Aquinas and we're talking about

00:51:40.000 Plato.

00:51:41.000 Let me go back to Aristotle's law of non-contradiction.

00:51:43.000 If we say that, uh, some, uh, man plus woman equals X, and then, uh, you say that-

00:51:51.000 Sex, actually.

00:51:52.000 It's sex.

00:51:53.000 It equals sex.

00:51:54.000 It also equals sex.

00:51:55.000 If we're saying that that means one thing, right?

00:51:57.000 Mm-hmm.

00:51:58.000 And then we say that man plus man does not equal X because they're not the same thing.

00:52:03.000 Yeah.

00:52:04.000 Yeah.

00:52:05.000 I've taken logic before.

00:52:06.000 I understand where you're going with this.

00:52:07.000 The point is the point that I would get on it.

00:52:08.000 Yeah.

00:52:09.000 But the thing that is, this plus this is straight.

00:52:10.000 That's the difference.

00:52:11.000 You just accepted the premise.

00:52:12.000 No, no, no.

00:52:13.000 You just said it's not the same.

00:52:14.000 Hold on.

00:52:15.000 I reject the premise that marriage is inherently between a man and a woman.

00:52:16.000 Therefore, what I would reject is man plus woman in a procreative union to order

00:52:20.000 towards that.

00:52:21.000 Marriage.

00:52:22.000 Here's the thing that Michael's going to do here is he's going to-

00:52:23.000 Because I can't-

00:52:24.000 Hold on.

00:52:25.000 Let me make it very clear.

00:52:26.000 I think a marriage is a partnership between two people that is focused on living together

00:52:30.000 in communion, in harmony, and believing in that.

00:52:32.000 And what Michael's going to do is what makes that different than two guys or two brothers

00:52:35.000 living with each other.

00:52:36.000 Good question, Michael.

00:52:37.000 Good question.

00:52:38.000 The problem-

00:52:39.000 Here's the problem that he does is that marriage in a lot of things are a little bit

00:52:41.000 hard to define and there's a lot of like-

00:52:42.000 It's not that hard to define.

00:52:43.000 It actually is, Michael.

00:52:44.000 It's not hard to define.

00:52:45.000 It's the same way if I say what is love, Michael.

00:52:47.000 Define love to me.

00:52:48.000 Love is the willing of the good of the other for his own sake.

00:52:51.000 Okay.

00:52:52.000 So if I-

00:52:53.000 Hold on.

00:52:54.000 Thomas Aquinas, by the way.

00:52:55.000 So then if I do-

00:52:56.000 So then I inherently do that if I will to the good of someone else.

00:52:59.000 I will for the good for others for their own sake all the time, even if I don't like

00:53:02.000 them at all.

00:53:03.000 You think it's love?

00:53:04.000 Yeah.

00:53:05.000 I really want other people to do well even if I really hate them.

00:53:07.000 Yeah.

00:53:08.000 Even if they're terrible people.

00:53:09.000 That's charitable and loving.

00:53:10.000 I gave a quarter to a homeless guy.

00:53:11.000 I don't love him.

00:53:12.000 I don't.

00:53:13.000 I can't get out of my face.

00:53:14.000 It's a good act, but not with the right intent.

00:53:16.000 By your definition, it's love.

00:53:17.000 I willed it to him for his own sake.

00:53:18.000 Here you go.

00:53:19.000 I want you to do well.

00:53:20.000 Here you go.

00:53:21.000 I'm giving you a-

00:53:22.000 Yeah, that's loving.

00:53:23.000 You're a very loving person.

00:53:24.000 I can tell.

00:53:25.000 There's a lot of love than that, than marriage.

00:53:26.000 And it might be a more gradient spectrum.

00:53:28.000 No, no.

00:53:29.000 Love within marriage is also willing the good of the other for his own sake.

00:53:30.000 The point I'm trying to make here, Michael, is that there's a lot of ambiguity surrounding

00:53:34.000 a lot of these topics.

00:53:35.000 And what Michael likes to do-

00:53:36.000 He's not.

00:53:37.000 I just answered it very succinctly.

00:53:38.000 Hold on.

00:53:39.000 He likes to throw the lifeline to you.

00:53:40.000 Marriage is this.

00:53:41.000 Rah.

00:53:42.000 And I'm like, well, maybe it's a little more complicated than that.

00:53:43.000 Your audience goes, no, it's not.

00:53:44.000 Yeah.

00:53:45.000 And I think that's the exact point that I'm trying to make here is that there is fuzziness around

00:53:47.000 the edges and people who want to reject the nuances and people who

00:53:50.000 exist in society differently than you.

00:53:51.000 It doesn't mean that they're wrong.

00:53:52.000 They might just live a different lifestyle than you.

00:53:54.000 If you can't get over that, maybe you should go live in a country where gay marriage doesn't

00:53:57.000 exist.

00:53:58.000 Pick your favorite Middle Eastern country that you claim to hate.

00:53:59.000 You mean all of them before 2001?

00:54:00.000 Sure.

00:54:01.000 Fine.

00:54:02.000 Go for it.

00:54:03.000 All of them ever.

00:54:04.000 Then you can go to one of those countries.

00:54:05.000 I love Oliver.

00:54:06.000 Oh, you do?

00:54:07.000 Yes.

00:54:08.000 Hold on.

00:54:09.000 Careful, Michael.

00:54:10.000 If you love him so much, why don't you marry him?

00:54:11.000 You love me.

00:54:12.000 I'm going to stop you from embarrassing yourself in this explanation.

00:54:14.000 Oh, I'm sure.

00:54:15.000 Do we have any more questions?

00:54:16.000 No.

00:54:17.000 That's it.

00:54:18.000 Won that round.

00:54:19.000 Was it?

00:54:20.000 My liberal friends, raise the blue flag.

00:54:22.000 Okay.

00:54:23.000 We got a few.

00:54:24.000 Okay.

00:54:25.000 All right.

00:54:26.000 Now, if you were scammed by Trump coin, raise the red flag.

00:54:28.000 Yeah, there we go.

00:54:29.000 No one was.

00:54:30.000 That's why no flag would go up.

00:54:31.000 If you think that I won that round, raise the red flag.

00:54:33.000 A lot of people who got scared.

00:54:35.000 Marriage is coming back, baby.

00:54:36.000 A lot of people.

00:54:37.000 You actually see it in public opinion polls, actually.

00:54:39.000 Supportive gay marriage is going down.

00:54:40.000 But that's the topic.

00:54:41.000 Sure it does.

00:54:42.000 Yeah.

00:54:43.000 Okay.

00:54:44.000 Now we've got to pick the VIP.

00:54:45.000 I think it's an obvious answer, right?

00:54:46.000 Hey, you just got married.

00:54:47.000 Is your wife pregnant yet?

00:54:48.000 Unfortunately, no.

00:54:49.000 Not yet.

00:54:50.000 Because we want to spend some time before we have kids.

00:54:51.000 Oh, forget about that.

00:54:52.000 Hey, get her up here and give her some of that beautiful redneck Riviera bourbon and

00:54:53.000 let's get things moving.

00:54:54.000 That's great.

00:54:55.000 Okay.

00:54:56.000 In my opinion, nobody wins a bar fight.

00:54:57.000 They're only losers.

00:54:58.000 So the question now, forget about red and blue.

00:54:59.000 We're going individual people.

00:55:00.000 Who lost tonight?

00:55:01.000 And who is going to have to buy the round?

00:55:02.000 Is it the soy pill?

00:55:03.000 Oh, no.

00:55:04.000 I can sense what's about to happen.

00:55:05.000 They don't like me.

00:55:06.000 Here we go.

00:55:07.000 Bring it on.

00:55:08.000 Is it the man who debated with multiple personalities at the show?

00:55:10.000 Is it the man who debated with multiple personalities at the show?

00:55:13.000 Oh, no.

00:55:14.000 I can sense what's about to happen.

00:55:15.000 No, okay.

00:55:16.000 All right.

00:55:17.000 Oliver, you did it, buddy.

00:55:18.000 Thank you very much.

00:55:19.000 Wonderful to see everybody.

00:55:20.000 We'll see you all.

00:55:21.000 Bye.

00:55:22.000 Bye.

00:55:23.000 Bye.

00:55:24.000 Bye.

00:55:25.000 Bye.

00:55:26.000 Bye.

00:55:27.000 Bye.

00:55:28.000 Bye.

00:55:29.000 Bye.

00:55:30.000 Bye.

00:55:31.000 Bye.

00:55:32.000 Bye.

00:55:33.000 Bye.

00:55:34.000 Bye.

00:55:35.000 Bye.

00:55:36.000 Bye.

00:55:37.000 Bye.

00:55:38.000 Bye.

00:55:39.000 Bye.

00:55:40.000 Bye.

00:55:41.000 Bye.

00:55:43.000 Bye.

00:55:44.000 Bye.

00:55:45.000 Bye.

00:55:46.000 Bye.

00:55:47.000 Bye.

00:55:48.000 Bye.

00:55:49.000 Bye.

00:55:50.000 Bye.

00:55:51.000 Bye.

00:55:52.000 Bye.

00:55:53.000 Bye.

00:55:54.000 Bye.

The Michael Knowles Show - January 24, 2026

2 Liberals vs. 1 Conservative： BAR FIGHT ｜ Michael Knowles, Oliver Niehaus, The Soy Pill

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