＂An Inconvenient Minority＂ and The ATTACK on Asian Americans ｜ Kenny Xu
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Summary
The left wants to blame white supremacy for every problem in the world, from inequality, injustice, in the prison system, and in the workforce, probably your sickness and diseases are caused by one thing: white supremacy. That s what we are told. White supremacy is the cause of all the evil. We are in a systematically racist country, and that s why we need policies that will disadvantage whites and give advantages to other racial groups.
Transcript
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Welcome back to The Michael Knowles Show. I'm Michael Knowles. I recently sat down with my
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friend Kenny Zhu. Kenny has a book out on an inconvenient minority. You know, the left wants
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to blame white people for every problem in the world, and they blame white supremacy and whiteness,
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and we need to abolish it, and we need affirmative action to disadvantage the white people. But what
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about, what about the Asians? You know, affirmative action harms Asians as well.
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They just don't seem to fit the left's racial narrative. So I sat down with Kenny, who's got a
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tremendous new book out on what this means for the left's racial views. Every ill of society,
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from inequality, injustice in the prison system, in the workforce, in the universities,
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probably your sickness and diseases, is caused by one thing, white supremacy. That's what we are told.
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White supremacy is the cause of all the evil. We are in a systematically racist country, and that is why
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we need certain policies that will disadvantage whites and give advantages to other racial groups.
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Okay, you know, you probably don't agree with that assessment of everything, but you will agree
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that is what is going on. But there's this really strange fact about this regime of affirmative action
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and legal racial discrimination. Namely, everything is allegedly, all the terrible things are caused by
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white supremacy. And yet, Asians get punished as well. Asians, I guess, became white somehow. So in order
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to attack white supremacy, you're going to disadvantage Asians in university admissions, most notably, but in
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other institutions and in the workplace as well. I can't wrap my head really around any of it, but
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certainly not around that aspect. So here to help me make some sense of it is Kenny Hsu. You may have read his
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writing in The Federalist, in Quillette. He is the president of Color Us United, and he is the author of a really
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terrific upcoming book, An Inconvenient Minority, The Attack on Asian American Excellence and the Fight for
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So Kenny, look, I, as a swarthy American, there's a hyphen between the Y and the A, as a swarthy
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American, I understand the aspects of whiteness, and I understand the aspects of non-whiteness,
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and I know the supremacy and whatever. How the hell did Asians get lumped in with all of this?
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Because we were too successful. That's what happened. There's really no other way to explain
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it. Asian Americans came to this country. They were heavily discriminated against, you know,
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Chinese exclusion, Japanese internment. You know, in California, California was actually a state where
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a lot of black Americans went to seek emancipation and freedom. And yet at the same time in California,
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Asian Americans were often treated cruelly and very viciously. And so that was actually an example
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of a time and a place where Asian Americans were actually treated even crueler and relegated even
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lower on the racial hierarchy than black Americans in California at the time. So look, you know, Asian
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Americans have experienced discrimination, but they've still managed to succeed in this country. And
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actually they're doing quite well. They have higher socioeconomic indicators, higher rates of education
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than even white Americans in this country. They show that this, how that this country cannot still
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be a country that's founded upon white supremacy, because if it was founded upon white supremacy,
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why did it let all of these Asian Americans get ahead of them?
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Right. Because I guess the theory of white supremacy is that the, the social structure of
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the United States is now and has always been constructed such that really only whites can
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succeed. And every other racial group that is not white is kept down in terms of social flourishing,
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personal flourishing, terms of professional accomplishment, in terms of academics and so on.
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And yet the Asians on most of those markers, if not all of those markers do better than anyone else in
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the country. So then I have to ask you, you've, you've demolished the white supremacy argument, I
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think, unless, unless white people are just under the misapprehension that Asians are white as well. And so
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they sort of let them in, but even that wouldn't make sense because the Asians do better a lot of the
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time. So if it's not the social white supremacist structure that we're all told about, what is it? Is it, is it,
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is it something in the water, in the ancestral lands of East Asia? Where, why is it that Asians are
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Well, because, and I talk about this in my book, An Inconvenient Minority, um, Asian Americans,
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first of all, it's not IQ. That's another thing that needs to be clarified because actually studies
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show that Asian Americans with lower IQs than white Americans still end up performing better
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So you're not saying, because I know, you know, I never get into the IQ stuff because I, I just,
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I'm not particularly expert in it. I find it to be something of a distraction,
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but you're not saying that IQ tests don't show that Asians have higher IQ because I've seen plenty
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of reports and things that say that Asians have higher IQs. What you're saying is the high IQ is
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not the determining factor. No, it's not the determining factor. Um, Asian success in this
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nation, uh, stems more from the cultural values of what Asian Americans bring to the table in this
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country. Um, and I'll touch on that a little bit later, but, but basically you cannot substitute for
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studying and Asian Americans study twice as many hours per week as the average American. Uh, they
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study 15 hours a week. The average American studies about seven. Um, they have stronger two parent
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structures, which limits the rate of crime, which limits drug use and which just generally raises a
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better educated child. And this is something that, that, that transcends just IQ, just genetics,
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that kind of thing. Asian American culture really informs their ability to succeed in this nation.
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That's why you have Vietnamese Americans who come to this country, literally 80% of them don't even
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speak English well. And within one generation, their kids graduate from college at a higher rate than
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even white Americans. Well, I I've seen it happen and I'll be, you know, having, uh, been in college
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not all that long ago, I do remember Asians are extraordinarily well represented, including at the
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top colleges in the country. So much so in fact, that these elite prestigious universities have
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effectively quota systems for Asians. It's not quite, I suppose it's not quite quota systems. It's that
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they hold Asians to a much, much higher standard. And this, uh, came out, uh, not that long
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ago at Harvard and at Yale. And look, this is the downside of, this is the downside of Asian success
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in this nation. Um, Asians have come on to this, into this country so strong. This is the thesis of
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my book and inconvenient minority. Asian Americans have come onto this country so strong and so quick
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that it actually incites resentment from the American elite. Because if you're an American elite,
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you know, a member of the, uh, liberal elite class and you want your kid to get into the
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prestigious colleges, the prestigious jobs, that kind of thing, your main competition is not
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black Americans. It's not Hispanic Americans. It's actually Asian Americans at the top for those high
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achieving intellectual power. And, and what happens is Asian Americans who largely keep their head down
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and they work, um, don't have the political capital to fight back. So now you have Harvard
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university in the name of diversity and inclusion saying, Hey, we want more people of black and Hispanic
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races, but who tends to get cut? Actually, Asian Americans tend to get cut. And now you have top
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gifted and talented programs like Thomas Jefferson high school in Fairfax, Virginia, which used to be
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70% Asian. Uh, the, the district board after Ibram Kendi came and spoke, um, the district board, uh,
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created a new admissions program that says, Hey, admissions, admissions is going to be a lottery.
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And what happened then is that they actually cut the percentage of Asians in that school by half.
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Now, what, what is the solution? Because, you know, when you make these arguments against
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affirmative action on the basis that you're discriminating against white people,
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it falls on deaf ears. I don't think it should. I don't think that it's any more just to discriminate
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against white people than it is to discriminate against any other race of people, but that's the
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way it works. However, when you, when you mentioned the Asian students, some of whom are recent
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immigrants, some of whom come from very, very low, you know, socioeconomic circumstances, uh, then it,
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it starts to raise this issue a little bit more, at least in the public consciousness. There are these
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high profile cases at Harvard, the DOJ under president Trump looked into what Yale was,
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Yale was doing exactly the same thing. However, you, you say it right here. What happens is that
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students of other races, notably black students will be given preferential treatment and the people
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paying the price will be white students and especially Asian students. So what is the solution?
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Is the solution here to tell these universities, sorry, you can't do that. Everyone's going to have
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their SATs weighted exactly the same way. If they're even still going to look at the SATs,
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everyone's going to have their GPA weighted exactly the same way. And if the university ends up being
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overwhelmingly or almost entirely Asian and white, then that's just the way things are going to happen.
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Is anyone really going to go for that for even in theory, uh, given how, how much we value diversity
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in this country? So there, there are two things that you say that are just, that are really important.
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Uh, I want to touch on the latter thing that you say, which is, Hey, what happens if your university
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just becomes 50% Asian? Uh, you know, um, first of all, first of all, you have to ask your question.
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You have to ask, actually, it's funny because there is a very conservative guy, a very conservative
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gentleman who I've been talking about this issue, um, who, who brings up this point and he's,
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he leads a great think tank. Um, but, and he brings up this point. He says, well,
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would America tolerate a country where the 100% of the people at the top are of a certain race?
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And, you know, a hundred percent of the people at the bottom are of a certain race. Um, and you
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have to bring, you have to bring up the, the idea of, of the American dream. And the American dream
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says, when you come to this country and when you decide to become an American, you say, we will be
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treated on the content of our character, not the color of our skin. And, and, and so what that
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insinuates and what, sorry, not insinuates, what that creates is that creates the notion of equal
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opportunity, right? Everybody here should be given equal opportunities to succeed. You know,
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they should be given a good education. They should be, um, given an equal chance in terms of healthcare
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and everything like that. But, you know, that does some people, regardless of whatever initiatives
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that you have will naturally rise to the top academically, Asian Americans disproportionately
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naturally rise to the top academically. And they do that because they work hard. And so that should
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be a wake up call to the rest of the nation that says, Hey, you know, that, that is incentive for you
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to work hard too. Um, and I think that that, that's a big thing that, that we need to touch on in terms
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of this book as well. Kenny, I cannot believe you would use such a vile and offensive and bigoted
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phrase as hard work. We were told within the last few years by places like the Smithsonian Institution
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that terms like hard work, objective truth, diligence are their white supremacist dog whistles.
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It's not a joke. I mean, this has been out here in the mainstream. And so I don't want to straw man
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what the radical left would say, but, but what they would, what I think they would say in their
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stronger argument is, look, Kenny, it's true. A lot of Asian immigrants come here and they don't
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have a lot of money and some of them really don't have two nickels to rub together and they work hard
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and that's great. But they are not saddled with the legacy of slavery whereby not all, but many
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black Americans ancestors came over in slave ships. They were discriminated against. There was a system
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whereby anti-black racism was tolerated and encouraged. And then after slavery, you had Jim
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Crow, you had redlining, you had all sorts of things. And then frankly, even many of the welfare
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programs intended to help the black families actually ended up hurting the black families
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anymore. So no matter what kind of destitution Asians come from to this country, they will never
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have had it as bad as black people did. And so you say equal opportunity, what equal opportunity?
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Blacks in this country simply don't have it. And I think this is where you hear this talk
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from people like Kamala Harris and others of equity. We don't want equality of opportunity.
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We want equity whereby some people get preferential treatment and inevitably others are disadvantaged.
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Yeah. You know, well now we're comparing discrimination narratives. Um, and you know, let, let's just,
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let's just take, let, let's just take that at face value that black Americans have a higher order
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discrimination narrative than, than, than Asian Americans. Let's just take that at face value.
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The problem is that the affirmative action policies that Harvard uses don't even necessarily benefit,
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say the, the, the generations of slavery that, that the, the black Americans that actually have
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been trapped in generations of slavery. Actually Harvard, 40% of Harvard's black class is actually
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black immigrant class. And a lot of people don't realize that. And then the other thing is, uh,
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we mentioned before that you would want a, uh, that, that, and that a policy of affirmative action,
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um, would, would benefit blacks and Hispanics at the expense of whites and Asians. Um, well it would
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also, Harvard's policy of affirmative action actually also benefits a certain strata of elite society of
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elite blacks and elite whites that are legacies that are children of donors. In fact, Harvard's own
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admission system is nearly 10% children of donors. Yeah. Nearly 10%. I'm shocked it's that low. I thought it
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would be higher. Our children of donors, you know, and, and when I say admissions should be a
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meritocracy, when I say that hiring promotion should be a race blind meritocracy, this is what
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I'm meaning. I'm meaning we should eliminate the facets of admission and the facets of hiring that
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are irrelevant to a person's merit. And I think that that's not just going to benefit Asian Americans.
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That's not just going to benefit white Americans, but that is going to benefit deserving black Americans
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and deserving Latino Americans as well. Now you're calling for what I think a lot of people would
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prefer, which is a more meritocratic system that does not pay a ton of attention to people's race
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and, you know, considers race as a very low, low end factor and focuses on things that are more
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important. And yet, and yet at the same time, we're seeing the rise of the black lives matter
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movement. You're seeing on the very fringes of the right, some more identitarian impulses among white
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people. And, and you're seeing notably, and Pew Research put out this survey some years ago,
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what seems to be a rise in racial consciousness. So I remember Pew Research asked different respondents
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to a survey, is your race somewhat or very important to your identity? And for white people,
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the number was very low. It was about 15%, very low racial consciousness. For every other racial group,
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Asians, Hispanics, and blacks, the number was greater than 50%. And for, for black respondents,
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it was over 70%. So very, very high racial consciousness for everyone except for whites. And then in the,
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in, on the left right now, we're being told that race is, is the essential part of our identity.
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And we, we need a much higher racial consciousness. And of course, many, you know, conservative
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commentators who really detest the idea of racial consciousness pointed out years ago, they said,
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if everyone else is going to have more of a racial consciousness, then eventually that's going to have
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to come to white people as well. You can't have a system where, where you're told there's no such
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thing as, as white people and race doesn't matter for you, but we hate you because you're white
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people and we all value our race very, very much. That's just a very unstable system.
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So are we going to get the Kenny shoe version where people get what they deserve and it's
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meritocratic or are the forces of racial identity politics just too strong?
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Racial identity politics is always going to be strong, but I mean, this is the work that I'm
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doing with colorist united, colorist united.org. Uh, it is true. Actually 75% of black Americans
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believe that their race is important or very important. We need to acknowledge that 50% of Asian
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Americans believe the same 15% of white Americans believe the same. But what we also know is that
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fixating on race at actually psychologically tends to produce a worse self-confidence, worse life
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outcomes, higher rates of depression, everything like that. There was a survey and also it actually
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even skews your reality when you fixate on race, because there is a professor named Dr. Eric Kaufman,
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um, who released a study that showed that a substantial majority of, of, of black Americans
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who voted for Biden, um, when asked the question who got, where, what, what, what kills more black
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Americans every year, car crashes or police shootings, a substantial majority of black Americans
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chose police shootings and, uh, who, who voted for Biden. And the reality is no car crashes killed,
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killed black Americans higher over 10 times more than, than police shootings. Um, and, and so when
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you fixate on race, when you, when you make race, your identity, it actually skews your reality and it
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skews you away from being able to engage in the fruits of society.
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I, I totally agree with you. I have noticed that race does make people crazy.
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I, I think I know why. I think I have some idea, but I, I would be curious to hear your thoughts. I
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mean, everybody you, you see seems to be retreating right now into these bizarre identities. You know,
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the, I suppose mostly race, but also sexual identities, whether it's one's sexual preferences or
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one's, uh, gender identity or, you know, men who think that they're women or the 7,000 new genders
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that people can pretend to have. Uh, why is that? I mean, why does identity seem to be multiplying
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and in all these really bizarre ways? Because people, because people want to feel like they
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belong. Um, people, people want to feel like they belong. Um, you know, I, I got a lot of flack
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recently for a tweet that I wrote where, um, I said, I, when I was growing up in my community,
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um, and I lived in a very diverse community, a lot of Chinese people, Indian people, black Americans,
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white Americans. I grew up in Virginia and Richmond. Um, I, I did not have a racial sense or a racial
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sensibility. I sure. Did I think that people looked different? Yeah, but that did not, it did not occur
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to me whatsoever that I would be true need to treat another person differently or that I am
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subconsciously treating a person differently because of how they look. I looked at all of the other things
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that a person brought to the table, but we, we are, we are being molded into a mental reality where,
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where we find that your race is mattering more important in your life and it's going to cause
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people to look at people in a racialized way. Uh, and so this, this I think is the new reality that
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we are being threatened to live in by leftist ideologues who want to preserve this, um, this
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racial ideology usually for their own gain. I think that's a very good point. And the, and this sense of
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belonging reminds me of a line that a priest, a priest friend of mine mentioned some years ago where he
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said, you know, when you find your identity in, I am that I am, which is the name that God gives to
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Moses. He, Moses says, who are you? He says, tell them I am that I am. And Christ says this too. He
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says, before Abraham was, I am. When you find your identity in being himself, you know, the very essence
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of being, then you can know who you are. And when you don't, when you turn away from that, then you
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are left with this very pathetic question. Who am I? It's like a teenager who goes through a goth period and
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then he goes through a punk period and then he got whatever, you know, you just try on all these
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identities and they multiply and they get very, very silly. The Christian culture that shaped the
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West, uh, created, you know, maybe for the first time in the history of the world, anti-racism. I
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know that's a loaded term now, but, but it created a culture where race really did not matter at all.
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And it strikes me that this is basically the first time in human history, the last, I don't know,
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70 years or so that race hasn't been all that big of a deal everywhere else in the world. It
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remains a very big deal in now in the United States. If the left gets their way, then, then
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it's going to become a big deal. So is that, are we just going back to the old normal, the old
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pre-Christian, I don't know, non-Christian or is this, is this inevitable because of the forces of
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history and human nature, or is there some, some hope on this question?
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Tribalism has always been here. It's not the fact that tribalism exists, that we should be
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surprised. It's the fact that we've been able to transcend tribalism to some extent that should
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surprise us. That should shock us. And, and a lot of that does have to do with the Christian
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foundations. All men are created equal. Martin Luther King articulated those foundations so
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well when he said, I have a dream that my four children will be treated on the content of the
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character, not in the color of their skin. Um, we have a resurgence of tribalism once more that,
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that is, that is not based, that is actually, it's actually, people will say that it is, um,
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anti-racist, uh, but the roots of it are actually, uh, anti, anti, anti-Christian, uh, anti-Christian
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and anti-spiritual, uh, they, they're trying to create a new spirituality with a new source of meaning.
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And that meaning is you are guilty because you are white and you are innocent because you are
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black. And of course that, that is not true. The truth is regardless of whether you're white or black
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or, or Asian or native American or anything, we all sin and we all are under the wrath of God. Um,
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and so that, that is, that is a truth that, that is being quickly decapitated by critical race theory.
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This raises a strange observation at the moment, which is we are told on the one hand,
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our race just is who we are. That is our identity, white, bad, you know, any, any one else good,
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I guess, except for Asian, you're kind of in the strange middle ground, this inconvenient minority,
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as you might say. So on the one hand, we're just, we're just meat puppets, right? We're just our
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bodies. And yet at the same time, we are told that actually our bodies have nothing to do with who we
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are. And if I'm a man, maybe I'm a woman. I, if I, if I think in some way that I'm a woman,
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then really I am a woman. You can become a transgender, but whenever people try to become
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transracial, which many have Rachel Dolezal, an NYU professor, uh, uh, a number of high profile cases of
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this, that's considered somehow off limits. But, but what is it? Are, are we our bodies or are we
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nothing to do with our bodies? Why, why, how are these two things simultaneously being pushed
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by the left? Yeah, this is, this is why, uh, the Harvard admissions process and just bring it all
00:24:55.680
back. This is why the Harvard admissions process is so interesting because race really is a collection
00:25:02.960
of stereotypes. That's what it is. It's, it's really a collection. Otherwise, why would you even
00:25:08.260
care that somebody else looks different than you? Unless you ascribe something, some trait to the fact
00:25:13.220
that someone looks different than you, you know, and the trait that Harvard assigns Asian Americans,
00:25:19.640
the stereotype that Harvard pushed, puts Asian Americans in is that we are test taking, overachieving
00:25:26.620
robots with no personality. And how do I know this? Because Harvard rates Asian Americans lowest on
00:25:35.100
the personality score. Right, right, right. Could you, I mean, just to, just, you know, 30 seconds or a
00:25:40.600
minute for people who don't know what the personality score is. This is an actual facet of the Harvard
00:25:45.580
admissions. And I don't know what it is, Kenny, you seem like an amiable chap to me, but, uh, Harvard
00:25:50.380
apparently doesn't think that you have much of a personality. It's, it's, this is, I mean, and this
00:25:57.860
is, this is the absurdity of it all because there, there's, there's, there is a glaring, um, piece in
00:26:06.400
all of this where if you are going to have so-called race conscious admissions or extending it further,
00:26:12.360
a race conscious curriculum or critical race theory curriculum, then you necessarily have to
00:26:18.800
stereotype. That's exactly what you're doing. You're actually looking at another race and you're
00:26:23.320
saying the people of your race have this certain trait that that's what you're doing. And that's
00:26:26.640
what Harvard has been doing. And so this is why this admissions system that has been going on for 30
00:26:31.060
years, discriminating against Asian Americans is so such a valuable resource for anybody that actually
00:26:37.120
wants to understand what the left is doing with race, um, to, to, to look at. It's a great little
00:26:43.300
key. I think it really, in this very direct way, it's subtle, but it's direct, just dismantles the
00:26:50.560
whole crazy racial theory. The book is called An Inconvenient Minority. The author is Kenny Shue.
00:26:55.440
Kenny, uh, best of luck with the book. I really recommend people go read. I read it. I really
00:26:59.420
enjoyed it. So go check that out. Everybody and Kenny, thank you for being with us. Absolutely. Thank