Bill Maher and Chris DiStefano debate the nature of our Lord Jesus Christ, and whether or not he ever existed. Guest: Chris Di Stefano, host of HBO's Veep and host of the show Veep.
00:05:40.480You know, this isn't like you have your opinion, and I have my opinion, and who knows?
00:05:44.920We know of the church councils, and we know that the church in council codified the canon of the Bible, and we know the books that were included.
00:05:55.280We know the books that were excluded, and we actually know why the books that were excluded were excluded.
00:05:58.460And we can date to a pretty near and narrow margin of time when those books were written.
00:06:05.260And by the way, if you've ever read some of the books that were excluded from the canon of the Bible, the conclusion you will have is not that the church father—well, not one person.
00:06:13.320I don't know what Bill Maher is talking about, but not that the church fathers and the bishops were trying to pull one over on us, but you will recognize their wisdom.
00:06:21.600Because the books that were excluded, by and large, were totally kooky and came much later and were illogical and not credible.
00:08:25.560Part of the historical critical school that was so influential in the 19th century was to say that none of the people who supposedly wrote the gospels and the epistles are actually the people.
00:08:38.920Because sometimes you do get pseudonymous writing, you know, writing where they purport to be one person, but they're not really that person.
00:08:45.780But it seems reasonable to me to attribute the gospels to the people who purportedly wrote them.
00:08:55.420And even if we're not talking about people who had a particularly close terrestrial relationship with our Lord, let's say in the case of Luke, it's not like we just, these guys fell out of the sky.
00:09:29.540I mean, this is, this is one of the amazing things about the Catholic church, which to me is a sign of its divine institution, is that you can trace the bishops like all the way back.
00:09:40.580They go right back to Peter and you can trace them with considerable clarity.
00:09:54.480But they got their information from Joseph's.
00:09:56.580Sure, Bill Maher is saying that because, you know, we have evidence that the gospels were written 30, morally more like 30 to 80 years after the resurrection, that these people lived 30 to 80 or 100 years after the resurrection.
00:10:19.600It would have been written and presumably these people weren't just born and then started writing.
00:10:23.180So, and frankly, it could have been written even earlier.
00:10:29.060I mean, you see, like in the case, we're talking about the spread of Christianity here in the empire.
00:10:32.820You see Christianity arrive in Armenia seven years after the crucifixion and two apostles die there, which is how Armenia came to be converted to a Christian country even before the Edict of Constantine already referenced.
00:11:37.500I want to make you let me point, but let me just quickly.
00:11:40.640The game of telephone, yes, I agree with you that point, but the game of telephone in Jesus' times, according to Lee Strobel in the case of Christ, was the simple fact of we're playing the game of telephone.
00:11:52.760The game of telephone, as we know it today, is you say something in my ear, and then it goes around 10 times, and by the time it gets to you, it's something radically different.
00:12:00.140This game of telephone, this ancient game of telephone was, but you tell it to me, then the third guy confirms what you said before it goes to the fourth guy.
00:12:09.620So there's a level of checking, of checks and balances.
00:12:13.440Chris, Chris, you're working too hard.
00:12:15.540If you want to believe this, believe it.
00:12:53.800What do you—I don't know, Bill, because we're having a conversation, and you seem to disagree with me.
00:12:58.820And so we're trying to figure out whose view is right, also because you're a human being, and I care for you, and I think it would be better for you to believe true things rather than false things.
00:20:54.540And when he senses that he's starting to lose, he just kind of falls into apathy.
00:21:00.240He, it's funny because he seems to be, he seems to consider his sparring partner as the one who's close-minded and stubborn and not going to change his mind.
00:21:11.120But it's really Bill in the end who comes out and he just gives up.
00:21:15.360And he says, okay, well, enough of your evidence, enough of your arguments.
00:21:18.960I'm, I'm just not going to change my mind.