Secular Pro-Life is an organization that exists to create a space for non-traditional pro-life people, particularly atheists and agnostics. But we also exist to help the pro life movement as a whole use more secular arguments when defending the prolife position.
00:14:49.020I realized how severe and time-sensitive the issue was.
00:14:55.540And I recognized how much of what was going on in terms of how powerful the abortion lobby
00:15:03.200was, was rooted in communities in California.
00:15:07.480And what were the videos that you saw?
00:15:09.140The Center for Medical Progress videos.
00:15:11.580Can you describe what was in those videos?
00:15:13.560In 2015, David Daleiden with the Center for Medical Progress released footage from a two-year
00:15:23.780undercover project within the abortion industry exposing the fetal organ harvesting practices
00:15:31.900and trafficking happening within Planned Parenthood, within the National Abortion Federation and various other institutions,
00:15:42.120including third-party entities doing business with abortion facilities in order to traffic fetal organs.
00:15:49.500It was especially shocking because the video footage was of abortion providers.
00:15:56.720High-level, high-ranking Planned Parenthood abortion providers haggling over the prices of dead babies and their body parts.
00:16:06.700And many of these babies were very late-term and the circumstances under the circumstances that are required in order to harvest fetal tissue are really shocking and grotesque and gruesome and really weren't known before that particular project.
00:16:30.800And that project gave rise to the hashtag from our opponents, hashtag stand with PP.
00:16:37.840And it, the hashtag PP sells baby parts became popularized from those videos.
00:16:48.040So would you say that that's the, is that, you know, what, if you could boil it down to a single reason, what was the main catalyst for you joining the pro-life movement?
00:16:57.820People always are looking for this, like, compelling story from me about, like, maybe an abortion that I had or almost had.
00:17:04.860And I did have pregnancy scares and, and do have, you know, personal experience with people close to me having abortions.
00:17:12.800And all of those things definitely affected my view over time.
00:17:16.660And it was really just taking small baby steps, getting involved online, getting, you know, helping out with a few events with secular pro-life, feeling like my work was necessary.
00:17:31.140I think the thing that emboldened me the most was finding other pro-lifers like me.
00:17:35.360I don't think that I would have gotten involved had I not seen other people like me doing it.
00:17:40.200But what continues to drive me in the pro-life movement and to radicalize me is the need for help and, and recognizing that the abortion industrial complex can be weakened.
00:17:53.460That we can topple this dictator, that there are clear sources of power for this industry that can be dismantled.
00:18:02.500And it's that knowledge and the reality that there are only a handful of people like me who are leaders in this movement who are openly secular, openly left-leaning.
00:18:15.700And it is my point of view that we cannot dismantle the abortion industrial complex unless we are able to break the relationship between the Democratic Party and the abortion industrial complex and big abortion.
00:18:32.120And there just isn't anyone else to do it right now.
00:18:35.460I would love to retire, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
00:19:00.520Pro-choicers often will categorize all pro-life people as right-wing religious zealots.
00:19:07.600That is something that we hear constantly.
00:19:09.980And it's often reflected in their insults towards me.
00:19:15.700They'll say that I'm not really progressive or that I'm not really an atheist, which is weird because I'd be a terrible Christian if I just went around denying Christ all the time.
00:19:26.520But pro-choicers have claimed for decades that you, if you're pro-life, you're a right-wing religious zealot.
00:19:35.020And there are actually 12 million non-religious pro-lifers in America today, according to Gallup and Pew polling.
00:19:55.420We launched POW just in October, and today we have more than 30 ground organizers who are progressive, who are politically left-leaning, ready for nonviolent direct action on behalf of the unborn.
00:21:09.360The four premises of the secular pro-life position, which I think is pretty consistent with the pro-life position in general, is first that a fetus, an embryo, a zygote, is a human being.
00:21:25.340We're not making a moral claim at this point.
00:21:28.840We're just saying on a basic biological level, a fetus, embryo, zygote is a member of the human species.
00:21:38.520The second premise is that there is no objective distinction between human being and person.
00:21:48.200And we recognize that the very concept of personhood is one that has been used exclusively to deny rights, often lethally, to entire groups of people.
00:22:02.800The third premise of the pro-life position is that it is generally wrong to kill human beings.
00:22:09.900This is consistent with basically every culture on earth, regardless if they are secular, religious, or what religion they are.
00:22:17.700The fourth premise of the secular pro-life position is that bodily rights is not enough to justify most abortions.
00:22:26.040Great. Now, can you kind of break that last argument down?
00:22:33.120Because I think that last argument is where a lot of people might be like, well, wait, wait, wait, how do you get there?
00:22:39.640So, you know, why is bodily autonomy or bodily rights not enough to justify elective abortions?
00:22:45.600And that's the problem in the pro-life movement is that there isn't a quick soundbite to explain to people why bodily autonomy doesn't justify killing.
00:22:57.560There are so many complicated court cases and complicated thought scenarios that help us to understand whether we're being consistent in certain circumstances.
00:23:09.440And that even divides pro-lifers because, you know, 59% of pro-lifers think abortion in cases of rape should be allowed and the others don't.
00:23:19.520So it's, um, and I think often, you know, the pro-life movement will just say, well, it's not your body.
00:23:26.020It's there's two bodies involved and that's not really a bodily rights argument.
00:23:32.080Bodily rights is argue is saying for the sake of the argument, even if this other, this fetus is a person that no one has the right to use your body against your will.
00:23:44.040Um, and I think that, you know, there's, that's a complicated question because in jurisprudence up until this point, you know, we have decades of jurisprudence showing us that in certain circumstances, the right to have control over your own body does trump the right of others to live in certain circumstances.
00:24:05.920I think the, one of the primary things that sets bodily rights, um, in the case of pregnancy, apart from other bodily rights circumstances is that in the case of abortion, one of the major distinctions, um, between that and other bodily rights cases is that in an abortion, in almost every type of abortion,
00:24:32.360someone would be required to commit an act of direct violence against another human being in order to make that abortion successful.
00:24:43.880It's not simply a result of someone looking to, um, rectify lost bodily rights.
00:24:51.540It's a, it's a direct act of violence.
00:24:56.360So what would you say, you know, if there was, if there was like one strongest argument against, uh, the bodily autonomy pro-choice argument, how would you summarize that strongest argument?
00:25:09.440Well, to me, the strongest argument, it revolves around consent and that's not going to be popular with your viewers or for this.
00:25:15.660And please don't make everyone hate me.
00:25:21.860I'm only going to explain it to you so they understand.
00:25:24.100It's a problem because most pro-lifers are religious and believe like the womb is a place where the baby is meant to be, that the baby has a right to the womb regardless.
00:25:36.680Um, but secular people don't necessarily see something as meant for something.
00:25:41.860Like it, yes, it, it houses the baby, but we wouldn't say that it was made for the baby.
00:25:48.020Um, and you know, and I'm not saying an all secular people would agree with me either that consent is the one that is the most compelling, but I just think it's like consistent with the violinist scenario.
00:26:01.240So, so when you say consent, are you saying that for you, the strongest argument against the bodily autonomy is that the woman and the man basically consented to this happening?
00:26:16.140I think one of the more compelling arguments that bodily autonomy should not be a justification for directly killing, especially in the case of abortion,
00:26:24.980is that the parties involved in the pregnancy entered into this situation of their own volition with known risks and that consent to engage in certain types of behavior is consent to the, the outcomes.
00:26:46.400That's how the law treats almost any other circumstance that there is responsibility involved.
00:26:52.960It doesn't make sense to use bodily autonomy to justify killing in the case of abortion when you had autonomy when making the decision of whether or not to take certain risks.
00:27:08.940Your autonomy has not been violated and it would be unjust to deny an unborn child their right to not be unjustly killed when bodily autonomy has not been authentically breached.
00:27:23.820Are there compelling arguments against the pro-choice argument that the woman's bodily autonomy outweighs the life of the, of the unborn child?
00:27:32.220I think one of the more compelling arguments is that when two people have sex of their own volition, that they have already exercised their bodily autonomy, that bodily autonomy has not been breached and that they had full autonomy when making the decision to engage in sex.
00:27:54.240Is abortion a simple victimless procedure?
00:27:56.220Abortion is not a simple victimless procedure.
00:28:03.900It is the dismemberment usually by suction or forceps or other methods to tear apart a human being, often fully alive and sometimes pain capable.
00:28:17.420So a lot of times I think people, especially who aren't familiar with the current debate and where the science has kind of evolved to since Roe v. Wade, I think a lot of people, myself included until just honestly relatively recently, think that there is a, a big raging debate between the two sides about when life begins and that that's like a really important question still in the debate.
00:28:45.620Uh, is that even a question with current science in current medicine?
00:28:51.140We know through modern science that life scientifically in a biological sense begins at conception.
00:28:59.340That's not a debate, uh, the debate is much more around when the concept of personhood begins and when human rights begin and when does life begin in the metaphysical sense.
00:29:16.380I think the debate is more about, um, um, when does life begin in a moral sense?
00:29:23.340When do the unborn begin to have rights?
00:29:27.180Um, I think that the science is absolutely clear and we know that the science is clear that human life begins biologically at the moment of conception.
00:29:37.820So is, is, is there any compelling argument for a pro-choice stance based on the, the argument for when rights begin?
00:29:49.460There's not one single argument coming from the pro-choice side that summarizes when pro-choice people believe that life begins.
00:29:59.160There is, I would say an ongoing debate amongst pro-choice people about when, um, life begins in the moral sense.
00:30:11.120Um, some pro-choicers will say after viability, some will say after birth, some will say several days after birth.
00:30:20.020Um, so there's a variety of views, which is interesting because pro-lifers are the ones being accused of applying religion to the issue, yet it's pro-choicers who are saying, oh, well, we're going to ignore the science.
00:30:34.880Life begins whenever you think it does.
00:30:40.400We have more from our conversation with Teresa coming up in just a second.
00:30:43.780First, though, be sure to text pro-life to 47581, because as the country grapples with the aftermath of overturning Roe v. Wade, the pro-life movement has come under fire from far-left pro-abortion extremists.
00:30:58.460Not only have leftists firebombed and vandalized pro-life clinics in multiple states, but online pro-life groups have experienced mass censorship by Google, Facebook, TikTok, you name it.
00:31:10.880That's why Live Action has been working tirelessly to find ways to spread the truth about abortion and share resources with those who need it most without relying on biased big tech.
00:31:21.760If you want to join Live Action's Fight for Life, text pro-life to 47581 and opt in to receive updates from Live Action about their ongoing work to end abortion.
00:31:32.740Texting pro-life to 47581 means you won't be at the mercy of the big tech censors in the ongoing fight for life.
00:31:48.180So, tell me a little bit about Planned Parenthood.
00:31:51.020What is Planned Parenthood, and how is it involved in the history of abortion?
00:31:55.740Planned Parenthood is the most powerful arm of the abortion industrial complex.
00:32:01.400Planned Parenthood commits more abortions in America every day than any other single institution.
00:32:09.760How was Planned Parenthood involved in the history of abortion?
00:32:13.900Planned Parenthood is responsible for a third of all the abortions in the United States, and they are one of the most politically involved institutions in our nation.
00:32:26.400What do Planned Parenthood's financials maybe show about their incentives?
00:32:29.920And 40% of Planned Parenthood's bottom line comes from their abortion business.
00:32:48.420Planned Parenthood was originally conceptualized by several avowed white supremacists who were committed to the idea of eugenics.
00:32:58.760One of their founders, Lothrop Stoddard, spent many years writing on racist topics and actually was a consultant for the Nazis, traveled to Germany in order to consult on which people should be forcibly sterilized.
00:33:18.120He co-founded Planned Parenthood with another avowed racist, Margaret Sanger, well-known for her Negro project and for speaking at a KKK rally.
00:33:31.800And these two, together with various other eugenicists of their time, were looking for a way to control undesirable, as they called them, populations, targeting specifically Black and brown communities to limit the number of children that they were having.
00:33:50.820This originally started out with birth control, but eventually, throughout the history of the organization, they transitioned to doing abortions as a way to kill people in minority communities.
00:34:09.340Do I know what their motivations are today?
00:34:11.660I don't know for sure, but I can tell you that they are benefiting financially from the abortions they're committing.
00:34:22.220They are obtaining an incredible amount of political and cultural power.
00:34:28.300And they are ultimately doing the work that Margaret Sanger and Lothrop Stoddard envisioned, which is positioning themselves as helping underprivileged communities of color in times of financial hardship, when ultimately they're just killing poor and Black and brown people.
00:34:56.620So, you know, we can't speak to Planned Parenthood's motives.
00:35:02.600No one, you know, knows for sure why they're doing what they're doing.
00:35:07.500But the organization has tried to paint the pro-life movement as being racists and has tried to separate itself from its racist origins.
00:35:23.340Can you kind of weave for audiences that weird juxtaposition and, you know, is that a fair tactic or what do you think about that tactic?
00:35:33.320I find it really interesting that so many left-leaning pro-choice people are willing to acknowledge and shout from the rooftops how there is systemic racism in literally every institution in America.
00:35:50.360And I think often we hear about the racism in healthcare in particular and how Black women in particular are impacted by racism in healthcare.
00:36:05.340And then I also find it interesting that they are so unwilling to acknowledge not just the reality that there's racism in healthcare, which would, of course, include abortion by their definition of healthcare.
00:36:21.620They're so unwilling to recognize that the root of this entire industry is not just systemic racism, but overt eugenics.
00:36:36.020Are you shocked or discouraged or what's your emotional response to the fact that the vast majority of progressives just kind of knee-jerk say that they're pro-choice?
00:36:51.880I think most progressives will automatically consider themselves pro-choice because they're not religious conservatives.
00:37:00.300And they've been told over and over that if you're pro-life, that's what you are.
00:37:08.520We know from studies that people do not choose their political party based on their ideology, that they actually form their ideology based on their political party and their identity.
00:37:21.540And it stems from the reason that I remained quiet about it so long.
00:37:27.620If you don't see other people like you doing it, you stay quiet about it.
00:37:43.760We are all products of our own confirmation bias.
00:37:49.240And that's why it's so important to give visibility to people like me who challenge that confirmation bias in a way that forces them to acknowledge that you can hold progressive values.
00:38:03.900Because even the Marxist principle to each according to their need, from each according to their ability, fits into a pro-life worldview.
00:38:13.860There's nothing inherently right wing about protecting the marginalized from exploitation and murder.
00:38:21.940So Planned Parenthood often says that without legal abortion, women would be forced into alleyways and, you know, committing, you know, coat hanger abortions or, you know, taking medications or chemicals to try to, you know, have abortions illegally.
00:38:44.440And big abortion tells us all the time that if abortion is outlawed, if it is made illegal, that there will be back alley coat hanger abortions everywhere, that it's going to create some kind of a medical emergency.
00:39:00.860But I wonder, in a world where abortion isn't even regulated, where we can't even have abortion facilities held to the same standards as other surgical facilities, what is the difference between a back alley abortion and a legal abortion when there are no regulations?
00:39:24.020And that's the reality that we're living in.
00:39:27.000What about the argument that they would say, oh, well, a woman would be forced to, you know, do it without a medical professional or, you know, women, you know, they point to, they point to some statistic saying like, oh, like X number of women would, uh, X number of women would die or there'd be an increase in, you know, deaths because, you know, if abortion was outlawed, how do you respond to that?
00:39:53.980I think the concern that a lot of pro-choice people have about the safety of those seeking abortion and the possibility that people would illegally procure abortions to their own detriment is concerning.
00:40:10.020That is a concern of the pro-life movement.
00:40:12.340And that should be a concern of all of us.
00:40:14.400I think it's also important to understand the truth of the situation, as made clear by Dr. Bernard Nathanson in his writings about his work in the early pro-choice movement, that there, the number of maternal deaths that occurred prior to Roe v. Wade was similar to the number of deaths that occur in legal abortion to this day.
00:40:41.300To this day, people die procuring legal abortion.
00:41:07.300Or I guess there's this question, like, if this idea that legal abortions reduce maternal mortality, if that whole idea was fabricated by pro-choice advocates from the beginning, does that cast suspicion on whether that claim has really any validity?
00:41:25.860I think that Dr. Bernard Nathanson's writings really does cast doubt on the validity of the claim by pro-choice people that this, by making abortion illegal, it will create a massive medical emergency.
00:41:43.440And another thing that I think is interesting is there's this Washington Post article where they actually, Washington Post fact checkers looked into, are you familiar with that article?
00:41:57.580And maybe you can kind of weave, you know, look at the suspect from the beginning with Dr. Nathanson, you know, confirming that they basically made that up to convince people.
00:42:06.040And then Washington Post fact checkers just kind of like weave it all together into a single answer.
00:42:10.360I think it's very problematic that big abortion continues to tout numbers that are inaccurate as it relates to maternal mortality rates prior to Roe and the reasons associated with that.
00:42:25.620We have seen top level Planned Parenthood executives make the claim, the false claim, that thousands of women died trying to procure illegal abortions prior to Roe v. Wade.
00:42:38.280Even the Washington Post is very clear that that claim, that thousands of women died attempting to procure illegal abortion prior to Roe is false.
00:42:52.060In comparison to this claim, even if you grant their claim, that thousands of women died, you know, every year from illegal abortions, can you compare that number to the number of women who've been killed as unborn, you know, babies?
00:43:10.820And just kind of like give audiences a juxtaposition of like, look, even if you grant that argument, you know, that over, you know, a decade, you know, what, 10,000 women maybe would die from illegal abortion versus the number of women's lives who would be saved if abortion wasn't legal?
00:43:28.820So when I'm weighing the hard edges of this debate, I recognize that a hard edge of our side is that we need to be concerned about the repercussions for women and those who can become pregnant in a scenario where they're not able to procure illegal abortion.
00:43:46.320But I also recognize that the hard edge of our side is mass genocide.
00:43:54.320We're talking about more than 60 million babies killed by abortion.
00:44:01.160And we know that many of them, thousands and probably millions, were past the age of viability and that some have been born alive and become victims of infanticide.
00:44:16.580That is the hard edge of the pro-choice side.
00:44:20.400And so when I'm weighing those two issues, accidental deaths that we are purposefully trying to prevent versus actively allowing people to dismember children and possibly allowing instances of infanticide, well, one just weighs a little bit heavier for me.
00:44:41.620And I can't explain it much further than that.
00:44:44.120Is the pro-life movement, I mean, we've already touched on this, but I think it's worth it, like just asking one head-on version of this question.
00:44:53.900Why does the pro-choice crowd so frequently depict the pro-life crowd as religious zealots?
00:45:02.980Every generation has an obligation to nonviolence and non-discrimination.
00:45:08.620And if progressives are upset that the majority of pro-life people happen to be religious and happen to hold conservative values, well, that is just a ā the problem with it is that portraying pro-life people as religious and right-wing doesn't justify their position in any way.
00:45:36.740It's just pointing out that none of them or very few or a few ā it's just highlighting the reality that so few left-leaning and secular people are willing to speak publicly on behalf of the rights of the unborn.
00:45:56.300And that doesn't seem like something they should be proud of.
00:45:59.620I think that left-wing people who've adopted a pro-choice position are adopting a pro-capitalist, pro-authoritarian, pro-exploitation position that's not really consistent with their values.
00:46:17.440And I don't think that they are in a position morally to judge conservatives when they think killing babies is okay.
00:46:27.640The reality is all people need to be pro-life.
00:46:31.300It doesn't matter what your political affiliation is.
00:46:33.820It doesn't matter what your religion is.
00:46:35.560We all recognize culturally across the globe that ending someone's life without adequate justification is a moral wrong, and it's something that we legislate against in literally everywhere.
00:46:51.240It's something ā being pro-life is for everyone.
00:46:55.800I think conservatives often fail to recognize the capitalistic exploitation involved in abortion.
00:47:08.180I think often conservatives overlook the very real situation that people of color and other marginalized groups experience in this country.
00:47:18.600There is a perception by me that there is a lack of protection for these groups, and that it is ultimately feeding a cycle of poverty and violence against the unborn.
00:47:34.320Are all people who are pro-life right-wing?
00:47:38.560But even my most liberal, left-leaning, progressive, pro-choice friends still think it's okay to kill unborn children as a way of achieving equality.
00:47:54.800And so it still puts conservatives who are pro-life head and shoulders above them.
00:47:59.800So the pro-choice lobby says that pro-lifers are anti-woman, especially considering how they used Norma McCorvey, for instance, to push through Roe v. Wade when she ended up not even deciding to have any abortions and kind of just used her as like a face.
00:48:18.140Can you just give us a brief thought on, you know, is that a valid argument for the pro-choice lobby to make to say that pro-lifers are anti-woman?
00:48:33.400The pro-choice movement has worked tirelessly to erase pro-life women from the conversation.
00:48:41.360And yet we still remain half of the U.S. population, half of women, roughly speaking, and for decades have been pro-life.
00:48:53.160I think it's also incredibly unfair to expect women and people who can become pregnant to shoulder the burden of abortion when, statistically speaking, in every poll that we've ever seen,
00:49:08.720the primary reason for seeking abortion is a lack of financial resources, not the desire for an abortion.
00:49:17.660And being pro-woman means protecting women from exploitation in their most vulnerable circumstances.
00:49:26.320Women are not getting abortions because they think it's fun or they want one.
00:49:30.520It's because of a lack of financial resources.
00:49:33.160If the abortion industry was truly pro-woman, they would be giving resources to these women and people seeking abortions.
00:49:43.840They would not be exploiting their circumstances for their own political and financial gain.
00:49:50.660So does abortion violate the values that our culture says it wants?
00:49:55.100Ideas like inclusion, equality, and, you know, being there for the marginalized or people without a voice?
00:50:03.160Abortion is a direct violation of the values of equality, nonviolence, and non-discrimination.
00:50:09.220It is completely incompatible with those values that we claim as a society, as a whole, to uphold.
00:50:18.620So by correlation, is the pro-life stance really a stance that progressives should be, like, more in favor of than anybody?
00:50:36.120It is helping those who are being marginalized and lethally killed for profit.
00:50:43.440Being progressive means sticking up for the marginalized.
00:50:48.100It means listening to low-income people and trusting them to know their own needs.
00:50:54.100And low-income people reject abortion by way larger margins than the rest of society.
00:51:03.800They recognize the exploitation involved.
00:51:07.300And to be progressive, we have to listen to that.
00:51:10.460And to be progressive, we have to dismantle industries that are exploiting people for profit.
00:51:18.200And that means standing up to the abortion industrial complex.
00:51:22.440You cannot be a progressive unless you are standing up for the unborn.
00:51:29.740What do you say to the pro-choice argument that it's just, you know, old white men who want to control women's bodies and that's the reason why they're pro-life?
00:51:39.980Because I think that's a really popular, like, little, like, slogan to say, like, it's just, like, white men who want to control women's bodies and tell women what to do.
00:51:47.260Yeah, I think it's noteworthy that the feminist foremothers were all anti-abortion, that the people who originally passed sweeping abortion rights were Republicans and men and were white men.
00:52:04.740And it was literal Nazi eugenicists who created Planned Parenthood.
00:52:11.500I think it's interesting that the pro-choice side uses the narrative that the pro-life movement is all old white men when their entire movement was established by not just old white men,
00:52:27.580but old white Nazi eugenicist men and a Supreme Court of all men, while the pro-life movement continues to be led primarily by women and half of the women in this country remain pro-life.
00:52:47.000We also notice in polling that young people are much more likely to be passionate about their pro-life views than pro-choice people who are also young.
00:53:03.160The narrative that the pro-life movement is just old white men is simply untrue.
00:53:09.760How is it the case, or how did it become the case, that the progressive movement and that Democrats in general, or in particular, became the movement and the party of pro-choice, kind of pro-abortion policies when it didn't start out that way?
00:53:31.780Before Roe v. Wade, it was unclear which political party was ultimately going to align with the abortion industry.
00:53:40.820There were high-profile Republican leaders like Rockefeller in New York passing sweeping abortion rights laws, while Democrats like Joe Biden at the time were openly pro-life.
00:53:54.780And there wasn't necessarily this political divide that we see today.
00:54:00.500In the 1980s, evangelicals became more pro-life.
00:54:04.880Prior to that, it was Catholics and a lot of secular people, actually.
00:54:09.800But it wasn't until the 1980s that evangelicals as a whole became invested in politics and also became pro-life.
00:54:20.860And I believe that that secured the relationship between the religious movement and right-wing politics.
00:54:29.620And that, at the time, included abortion.
00:54:33.020You know, what's your vision for progressives?
00:54:36.260You know, can you kind of give us a summary of, you know, what's the objective?
00:54:43.060And, you know, what's the future look like?
00:54:44.860When I'm looking at the landscape of the abortion issue in the United States, I recognize that the primary pillar of power for big abortion lies in their relationship with the Democratic Party.
00:54:58.040That's how they maintain power and control.
00:55:00.920But we know that at least 21 million registered Democratic voters today consider themselves pro-life.
00:55:46.280There have been social justice movements that have come and won in this country and around the globe when the odds were completely against them.
00:55:54.780But the odds are actually completely in our favor.
00:55:59.320And I believe that what it's going to take is for these left-leaning people, especially progressives, because progressives have the most influence over the Democratic Party, not establishment Democrats, progressives.
00:56:11.580If progressives are able to put enough pressure on the party, if they see other people like them doing pro-life work, standing up for the unborn, they're more likely to stand up too, to stand up from within the party rather than leaving it and to force change.
00:56:29.680And that's when I believe we will see big abortion fall.
00:56:34.580And I think that it's not going to happen unless we mobilize progressives for action.
00:56:41.660This isn't just about getting progressives to recognize that they're pro-life.
00:56:45.720There are already progressive pro-lifers out there and definitely enough to get the job done.
00:56:52.800But what we need to do is bring them out of the shadows.
00:56:55.760And I'm creating a space for them to get directly involved, to put their bodies in between the oppressors and the oppressed, and to ultimately change history.
00:57:09.920What can kind of the pro-life movement do to bring pro-life progressives out of the shadows?
00:57:17.160I think the most critical thing that the pro-life movement as a whole can do to help draw out more pro-life progressives is to give pro-life progressives leadership roles within the movement, to train them, to give them visibility, to give us a platform so that we can be seen and heard.
00:57:37.800The pro-life movement isn't a monolith.
00:58:44.840We have to do it for the victims of abortion.
00:58:47.520We have to do it for the women who are taken in by this industry, who are used for dollars, even to their own detriment.
00:58:55.940If you enjoyed this conversation with Teresa Bukovanak, you'll want to check out our Daily Wire original documentary, Choosing Death, The Legacy of Roe.
00:59:07.120In it, we take a wrecking ball to the four fallacies keeping the abortion industry alive.
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