The Michael Knowles Show - Choosing Life： Surviving a Medical Abortion - Claire Culwell

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00:00:39.240 So often it's hard for us to care about an issue, maybe even have a stance on an issue or understand an issue,

00:00:48.920 unless we've been affected by that issue.

00:00:51.560 And for me, that was the case.

00:00:53.600 When I met my birth mother, I found out that I had been affected by abortion because I had survived my birth mother's abortion procedure that successfully aborted my twin.

00:01:04.780 I thought for sure that I would never be the type of person who'd been affected by abortion, but here I was.

00:01:12.000 The face, the name, the story of the aborted child in the name of choice.

00:01:17.940 From the beginning of the abortion debate, the pro-abortion side has always had one major advantage.

00:01:28.440 No one ever hears from the victims.

00:01:30.840 The victims are small, voiceless, and discarded before anyone ever knows their names, before they even have names.

00:01:39.380 We can see and hear from the mothers who procure the abortions. 1.00

00:01:44.240 We can see and hear from the abortionists.

00:01:47.880 Only the victims never have the chance to tell their side of the story.

00:01:53.220 Almost never.

00:01:55.100 In extremely rare circumstances, the victim of an abortion will survive.

00:02:00.720 No one understands the reality of abortion better than these survivors, better than people like Claire Caldwell.

00:02:10.040 Claire lives with the scars of abortion every day, and she is using her unlikely survival to expose the reality of the abortionist's butchery.

00:02:21.280 Let's hear Claire's side of the story.

00:02:23.560 Right now, I would strongly recommend you go to hallo.com slash choose life, because today's world is a scary one.

00:02:43.660 Too many people don't seem to care about the truth, and I would suggest that that's all rooted in people becoming less or really just anti-religious.

00:02:53.560 That's why it's more important than ever to keep our relationship with God strong.

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00:03:13.100 Several of Hallow's meditations encourage you to choose life and to pray for others to choose life, such as their Litany for Life with Lila Rose.

00:03:20.240 Hallow is free to download.

00:03:22.740 It will help you find peace and calm throughout your day.

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00:03:27.440 Download the app for free at hallo.com slash choose life.

00:03:32.540 That is hallo.com slash choose life.

00:03:35.880 My name is Claire.

00:03:42.720 I am an abortion survivor.

00:03:44.700 I'm a wife, a mother.

00:03:47.240 I live in Austin, Texas with my husband, David, and our four children.

00:03:52.000 So my sister and I are both adopted.

00:03:54.500 We actually grew up in Austin, Texas.

00:03:58.140 We're adopted by Texans from two different birth mothers from out of Texas, other states.

00:04:04.160 And we always knew we were adopted.

00:04:07.840 We actually don't remember finding out we were adopted.

00:04:10.900 But being adopted was this very positive thing.

00:04:14.400 We remember actually kids in school or at church, wherever we were, saying, gosh, sorry that you're adopted.

00:04:22.600 And we were really confused by that because our parents told us all our life that we were wanted, chosen, and loved.

00:04:28.620 And so being adopted, having birth mothers, being chosen in the way that we were was this great thing.

00:04:36.220 And I think it's because people had seen the movie Annie, and they, like, thought we lived with Miss Hannigan or something.

00:04:41.880 But we were adopted.

00:04:44.420 And so one day, my sister decided to meet her birth mother.

00:04:48.960 And she was, I guess, around 18 years old.

00:04:53.400 And I'm a couple years older than her.

00:04:55.400 I was in college.

00:04:56.840 And I came home to meet my sister's birth mother.

00:05:00.340 And seeing them together was this experience I had never experienced before.

00:05:07.400 I mean, seeing how much they looked alike, how much they acted alike.

00:05:11.180 And it really humanized my birth mother for me in that moment.

00:05:15.280 And I was 20 years old at this time.

00:05:17.320 I had not taken the time to reach out to find my birth mother, had not even really thought much about my birth mother.

00:05:24.720 But I knew as I saw my sister's birth mother put a face with this woman who had given me my sister, given her her life, that I wanted to just thank my birth mother because I had an incredible life because of her.

00:05:40.340 And I thought, you know, she probably thinks, like, she was the worst mom for me.

00:05:46.220 I mean, she placed me for adoption.

00:05:47.860 I don't know the circumstances, but I thought maybe there's something hard in my birth story.

00:05:54.340 And I wanted her to know that she was the best mother for me because she had given me my family and my life through adoption.

00:06:02.440 And so I went home that day, and I talked with my family.

00:06:06.200 We all agreed we wanted to meet my birth mother.

00:06:08.780 And so I made the call the next day, and a woman named Debbie answered the phone to my adoption agency.

00:06:16.020 And come to find out on the phone, Debbie was my parents' caseworker and my birth mother's caseworker now 21 years before I made this phone call to her.

00:06:28.300 And as I'm describing who I am and telling her my name and that I wanted to find my birth mother, she says,

00:06:37.680 Claire, I actually know who you are.

00:06:39.340 I'm staring.

00:06:40.180 I have your baby picture on my desk.

00:06:42.500 I've had it here for 21 years.

00:06:44.560 And I thought that was the weirdest conversation.

00:06:48.760 I mean, who keeps somebody's baby picture?

00:06:50.800 I mean, mine, out of all the baby pictures she could have kept from all the placements that she's helped make happen through this adoption agency over more than 21 years because she'd been there even longer than that.

00:07:05.520 Why would she pick mine?

00:07:08.420 Why would she pick me?

00:07:09.640 Why was I that special baby?

00:07:12.260 And come to find out, she knew what I didn't know in that conversation.

00:07:18.520 She knew that my life was a miracle.

00:07:21.240 And so Debbie was excited.

00:07:23.220 She said, your birth mother was very young.

00:07:26.120 She's still very young.

00:07:27.800 She's only 14 years older than you.

00:07:29.520 She was 14 when she had you.

00:07:31.220 She was 13 when she was pregnant with you and lived here in this home.

00:07:36.000 And so she said, you know, I knew your birth mother.

00:07:38.660 I haven't kept in touch with her, but I'll do my best to find her.

00:07:42.700 And so I got a call just a few weeks later on Christmas Eve of 2008.

00:07:48.440 And Debbie said, Claire, I found your birth mother, and she would love to meet you.

00:07:54.200 And I was so excited.

00:07:55.700 My whole family, we were excited.

00:07:57.340 We planned for this.

00:07:58.580 We set the meeting up in March of 2009, just a couple weeks after I turned 21.

00:08:06.320 And she brought her family.

00:08:08.480 I brought my family.

00:08:09.460 We planned, you know, what we would wear, what we would eat, everything that you could

00:08:14.460 ever think of.

00:08:15.400 I brought a stack of pictures from my childhood, from my life, because I wanted to show her how

00:08:20.960 great my life has been because of her choice to give me life and family.

00:08:26.320 And we had this great reunion.

00:08:29.320 I got to see who I looked like.

00:08:31.060 And I was actually studying to be a nurse at that time.

00:08:34.020 And I found out that she was a nurse.

00:08:35.700 And so we had these things in common.

00:08:37.460 It was really neat to be able to meet my birth mother.

00:08:41.800 And we set a second meeting up because we knew we wanted to continue our relationship.

00:08:48.240 And I thought this would be our moment where I opened up to her, and she opened up to me.

00:08:53.540 And there was this redemption story.

00:08:56.420 And I had no idea, no idea what I was about to walk into.

00:09:02.840 I mean, nothing can prepare you for the conversation that I had with my birth mother when I thanked

00:09:10.140 her for giving me my life and my family.

00:09:14.120 I actually prepared for that meeting.

00:09:16.640 I got her a ring and a necklace with my birthstone on it.

00:09:19.740 And I flew to Oklahoma.

00:09:21.920 She still lives in the same area as she grew up and where I would have grown up if she had 0.84

00:09:29.560 kept me, and I was excited to spend time with her family.

00:09:33.940 And I brought this gift.

00:09:35.240 And that evening, things settled down.

00:09:37.920 She had put her then-four-year-old to bed, my half-sister, Peyton.

00:09:43.960 And things had settled down.

00:09:46.980 And so I got the gift out.

00:09:48.480 And in the gift, I had a card.

00:09:50.000 And I had written, thank you for choosing life for me.

00:09:53.220 And I signed my name.

00:09:54.500 I don't know why I just wrote that.

00:09:57.100 I think I couldn't even wrap my mind around what to say in that card.

00:10:02.520 But for whatever reason, that's all I wrote.

00:10:06.200 And I gave her the gift.

00:10:09.020 And we were alone.

00:10:10.120 We were in her living room.

00:10:11.520 She was sitting in a chair like this.

00:10:13.880 And I gave her the ring and the necklace.

00:10:16.260 And she opens it up.

00:10:17.420 And she cried really happy tears.

00:10:19.080 She told me she was thankful for that gift.

00:10:22.280 And then I watched her open the card.

00:10:27.420 And I was actually fastening the necklace on her neck as she opened the card.

00:10:32.120 And she read what I wrote in the card, thank you for choosing life for me.

00:10:36.760 And like a switch, everything changed.

00:10:42.000 I mean, everything about her expression, the tears in her eyes that were happy turned to sad tears.

00:10:52.820 She was trembling.

00:10:53.960 And she just kept saying, Claire, I'm so sorry I didn't.

00:11:00.640 I didn't choose life for you.

00:11:03.680 I'm so incredibly sorry.

00:11:06.360 And I mean, I'm confused.

00:11:08.620 I'm like, this is supposed to be our moment.

00:11:11.280 This is supposed to be the moment where I tell her everything she's longed to hear.

00:11:15.340 How great my life.

00:11:16.440 I mean, what is she even talking about?

00:11:19.340 She didn't.

00:11:21.440 And the walk, she said, let's go into this other room so I can tell you about what it was like being pregnant with you at 13 years old.

00:11:33.080 And so we walked to this other room, and I remember she grabbed my hand as she led me into this other room as she was weeping.

00:11:40.000 And her hand was shaking so much it was shaking mine.

00:11:45.020 And I thought, what in the world could she be about to tell me?

00:11:51.480 And we sat on this bed, and we turned to face each other.

00:11:55.500 And she said, Claire, I was 13 years old.

00:11:58.660 And she said, my mother told me that there was one choice for me by the time I got the courage to tell her.

00:12:05.920 I was around five months along in my pregnancy, and she said I wasn't ready to be a mother.

00:12:16.100 She said, we're going to go to this abortion clinic, and you're going to take this to your grave. 1.00

00:12:21.160 Nobody's going to know that this ever happened.

00:12:23.880 And you're going to shut up about it, and you're going to do what I'm telling you to do.

00:12:30.840 And my birth mother was driven to a nearby abortion clinic in Oklahoma, and she had a D&E dismemberment abortion that day.

00:12:42.460 And she said she was surrounded by a doctor and some nurses and her mother who never even spoke to her, never acknowledged her, never asked her what her choice would have been.

00:12:55.780 All they told her was that her life would go back to normal, that everything would be fine.

00:13:01.420 She wouldn't even think about it.

00:13:02.820 She said the procedure was incredibly painful.

00:13:09.080 She actually still to this day can remember the smell, the instruments that were used, the sounds that were in that room.

00:13:17.440 There's so many things about that day and the coming days that can take her back to being that 13-year-old scared and unsupported little girl.

00:13:30.820 And she said after she went home, she tried to go back to normal.

00:13:37.360 She was in eighth grade.

00:13:40.260 She tried to do the normal things that she enjoys to do, be with her friends, play sports.

00:13:47.200 And something just didn't seem right.

00:13:50.380 The weeks went on, and her belly was still growing.

00:13:54.460 She realized something was leaking out of her.

00:13:58.040 She didn't know what that meant, of course, being a 13-year-old girl who would.

00:14:03.960 And so she finally went to her mother when she got the courage to go back to her mother.

00:14:09.660 And her mother took her back to the abortion clinic, and they told her that she had actually been pregnant with twins and that one baby had successfully been aborted, but that I had survived my birth mother's abortion.

00:14:22.960 And they said, what would you like to do to her mother? 0.92

00:14:27.560 And once again, she's sitting in a room where decisions are being made on her behalf.

00:14:33.440 Nobody's speaking to her.

00:14:35.220 Nobody's acknowledging her.

00:14:36.860 Nobody's caring about the pain that she's experiencing.

00:14:40.340 They're just talking about this as if it's a medical procedure that has no implication or effect on her life.

00:14:50.260 And so they decided, the doctor, the nurses, and her mother decided that she needed a second abortion. 0.85

00:14:56.960 Well, at this point in Oklahoma, she couldn't have a second abortion because it was too late. 1.00

00:15:02.980 She was around six, six and a half months along in her pregnancy at this point.

00:15:08.180 And so that was an even later term abortion. 1.00

00:15:11.720 And so they referred her to Kansas.

00:15:14.600 In Kansas, this is where a lot of late-term abortionists were practicing abortion at that time. 0.97

00:15:21.680 And they did every type of abortion that there was. 0.80

00:15:26.440 And so my birth mother was referred to Kansas.

00:15:29.620 She remembers the drive.

00:15:30.820 She said it was her mom, her little brother, and her.

00:15:35.160 And they drove to Kansas.

00:15:36.880 They ate donuts like it was just a regular day.

00:15:42.000 She was taken to this late-term abortion clinic in Kansas. 0.91

00:15:46.780 She was laying on the table ready to have her abortion just like she did the first time. 1.00

00:15:52.200 And these doctors, miraculously, they said, we can't do it.

00:15:57.400 And the reason that my birth mother was turned away was not because it wasn't legal.

00:16:04.080 It was because she had been leaking amniotic fluid for the few weeks since her abortion that aborted my twin. 0.65

00:16:11.860 And it was too dangerous for her to have that second abortion. 1.00

00:16:16.960 And so they said, not only that, but your baby's very small.

00:16:20.240 You're very close to delivery.

00:16:23.500 You need to go home and be on bed rest.

00:16:25.520 And so my birth mother was then driven back to Oklahoma. 0.98

00:16:29.240 She was dropped off at that adoption agency where Debbie was, who answered my phone call that day.

00:16:35.120 And Debbie was then her caseworker.

00:16:37.980 And at the request of my birth mother, Tanya's mother, she ended up placing me for adoption there through the adoption agency.

00:16:50.160 And I was born, as you can imagine, very prematurely.

00:16:54.860 I was 10 weeks premature because my birth mother was leaking amniotic fluid and because she then had a dry birth.

00:17:03.800 And so I weighed three pounds, two ounces.

00:17:07.220 I had a dislocated hip and I had club feet and a lot of complications that the doctors had to correct for me.

00:17:15.640 I actually stayed in the hospital for two months and then went home with my parents to Texas and went through multiple body casts

00:17:24.780 and visited the Children's Crippled Hospital for numerous years as the doctors corrected these things.

00:17:33.020 And so my birth mother was told that because she was leaking amniotic fluid, because they ripped the sack that I was in during the abortion,

00:17:44.120 that aborted my twin, because she had this dry birth, that that is what caused these physical complications that I had then,

00:17:53.020 that I'm still experiencing now.

00:17:54.740 I have a lot of chronic pain and different things that I can't do as a normal person would be able to do.

00:18:03.060 Although, you know, overall, I'm very blessed.

00:18:06.420 I'm very fortunate that I can function pretty normally.

00:18:10.880 But doctors, you know, recently, over the past couple of years, as they've reviewed my medical records,

00:18:19.520 they think that there's a possibility that these are because I was a twin,

00:18:26.780 because oftentimes twins who are cramped in their mother's uterus, they're sharing that same space.

00:18:34.620 And so they can develop dislocated hips and club feet.

00:18:40.540 So, you know, if that's the case, the miraculous thing either way is that the abortion instruments that tore my twin's body apart limb by limb never touched my body.

00:18:50.940 And so that's pretty, pretty incredible as I've realized what I went through in the womb as my twin's body was taken apart, crushed, and pulled out of my birth mother's uterus.

00:19:07.780 When people, you know, hear your story, what's the most common response that you get for someone who's never even considered, you know, the idea that abortions might not be successful?

00:19:23.780 I get two responses.

00:19:25.120 I think the most common response is the exact same response that I had as I was sitting face to face with my birth mother,

00:19:31.880 learning that I survived an abortion that was meant to end my life.

00:19:35.680 Um, my response was, what?

00:19:41.320 What do you mean?

00:19:42.920 I mean, I mean, this doesn't happen.

00:19:45.860 Um, abortion survivors exist.

00:19:48.640 Is that, is that a real thing?

00:19:50.900 I mean, that actually happened to you?

00:19:53.360 I mean, those were all of my reactions.

00:19:55.520 And that's, that's the reaction that I have, um, so often from other people because abortion survivors are not being talked about.

00:20:05.160 Abortion is, is often such a hush-hush topic other than in, in political settings.

00:20:12.400 We don't oftentimes sit around the table and talk about the reality of abortion in our homes, with our children, in our communities, in our churches, in the places where real-life conversations are happening.

00:20:25.740 So often we're not talking about abortion, um, we're certainly not talking about how babies can survive abortions, how abortion procedures, just like any other medical procedure, things can go wrong.

00:20:42.080 Um, and abortion is not always safe, and I'm living proof of that. 0.86

00:20:48.700 And so I think that's the, the first response that I get.

00:20:53.080 Um, the second response that I so often get is that, wow, your, your survival, your existence, your, your very humanity sitting before me.

00:21:05.300 It really makes this issue real for me now.

00:21:08.640 Like, it's hard when, when you haven't been affected by abortion, like, like me for so long.

00:21:14.280 For 21 years, I never talked about this in, in my home, in my, um, circle.

00:21:20.380 I, I hadn't been affected by it that I knew.

00:21:22.900 And so, um, I, I really just didn't, didn't think about it.

00:21:27.480 But when you look at an abortion survivor, um, you see the humanity of that unborn baby.

00:21:34.900 And so people will say, Claire, the fact that you were a twin, um, that really makes it real to me.

00:21:42.500 Because I realize when I'm looking at your face, I'm looking at your twin.

00:21:47.160 I'm looking at the aborted baby.

00:21:50.140 And that's, that's so often what moves people.

00:21:53.960 I mean, I've had people say right on the spot as they hear my story.

00:21:58.980 Like, I, I walked into this conversation thinking that I was pro-choice, that I, I cared about women.

00:22:08.100 Um, but your humanity has changed me.

00:22:11.880 I realized that there are two people to care about, three, a family even to care about in an unplanned pregnancy situation.

00:22:20.480 And it's not just as simple as women need abortion. 0.61

00:22:25.560 Put us as the audience in, in the shoes of your, your birth mother for a minute.

00:22:30.120 You know, what, I mean, just the idea of being a 13 year old girl and feeling totally powerless in that, in that situation when she finds out that she is pregnant.

00:22:43.460 Can you kind of put audiences there and, and kind of walk them through what your birth mother was going through?

00:22:50.700 My birth mother had a divorce parents and she lived with her mother, um, who, who wasn't very loving towards her.

00:22:59.420 And, um, my birth mother went to her mother and said, I'm, I'm pregnant at 13 years old.

00:23:07.280 And her mother said, well, um, nobody's going to know you're going to take this to your grave.

00:23:13.660 You're going to shut up about this.

00:23:15.340 I'm about, I'm going to drive you to an abortion clinic and you're going to have this abortion. 1.00

00:23:19.700 And we'll go home and pretend like it never happened and we'll never speak of this again.

00:23:26.000 And so my birth mother, that's what, what she did.

00:23:29.420 She had a DNA dismemberment abortion in an abortion clinic where no one spoke to her. 0.97

00:23:35.560 No one asked her what her choice would have been.

00:23:37.900 No one asked her what they could do to support her, um, in her choice, in even the possibility of being a mother through parenting or placing her child for adoption.

00:23:51.620 No one asked her what, what her choice would have been.

00:23:55.000 And, you know, so, so often pro-choice advocates, I mean, even in their name, you know, even in the way they talk about abortion as, you know, a woman's right to control her own body.

00:24:05.480 And it's a woman's choice, you know, so much of an emphasis is put on the woman's kind of bodily autonomy in her decision.

00:24:14.080 Was that the case for your mom?

00:24:17.580 I don't even know that, um, there was, there was an argument for or against, um, anything.

00:24:27.380 I think her mother knew that she was 13 years old and that she thought she wasn't ready or wasn't capable of, of caring for a child.

00:24:36.980 Her mother certainly didn't want anything to do with, um, a baby, uh, being a grandmother. 1.00

00:24:43.820 And so her mother made this choice for her.

00:24:47.640 Um, but that certainly is an argument I hear a lot.

00:24:51.820 Um, people often say to me, well, Claire, don't you, don't you think women should, should have the right to choose what they do with their own body?

00:25:01.300 And, and I always say, yeah, absolutely I do.

00:25:04.600 But the problem here is that I wasn't my birth mother's body.

00:25:09.460 There was a separate human being inside of my birth mother's body and that was me.

00:25:15.740 And so women, yes, absolutely.

00:25:17.960 They should have the right to do what they want with their body, but not when it's at the expense or the death of a child like me, like my twin.

00:25:27.940 Right.

00:25:28.480 And to, to take that argument even a step further, uh, many women like your mom don't actually feel like they have a choice in the issue and they feel forced into having abortions. 1.00

00:25:41.720 Women do feel, um, forced into having abortions every single day. 1.00

00:25:47.020 Um, women feel desperate enough to have abortions every single day. 1.00

00:25:51.580 In fact, that's what's driving women into abortion facilities today. 1.00

00:25:56.820 It's, it's not often a medical reason or, um, these exceptions that we hear about and empathize with.

00:26:06.180 Um, it's, it's, it's a desperation that women feel because they're, they're being forced, they're being coerced, they're being lied to, um, or they don't know that they have support and people that will walk alongside them.

00:26:22.680 And they don't know that there are organizations readily available to, um, walk alongside them through their pregnancy and help them financially with material assistance, with emotional assistance, and be that community to them that they're looking for, that they need in their moment of, of crisis as they experience a unwanted or unplanned pregnancy.

00:26:47.160 I would say that my birth mother is exactly like women that walk through the doors of abortion clinics today, especially if they're 13, 14 years old and they're going in with their parents. 1.00

00:27:00.260 I mean, think back to when, when, if I think back to when I was 13 or 14 years old, who did I trust?

00:27:07.860 I trusted the wisdom of my parents.

00:27:10.340 I trusted that my parents were going to make the best choices for me.

00:27:15.040 And so at 13 or 14 years old, I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing if my parents had told me abortion is your only option.

00:27:23.760 Abortion is what's best for you. 0.99

00:27:26.600 And so I think that my birth mother does represent the, the teenager that's walking into an abortion clinic today.

00:27:33.780 But I would go further than that and say that she represents the, the desperate woman in her twenties or thirties or forties who feels unprepared, who feels hopeless, who feels like they don't know where else to turn, where else to go.

00:27:50.040 They don't know the resources and support that is available to them.

00:27:54.400 Um, those are the reasons that women are going into abortion clinics, um, the lack of support. 0.99

00:28:00.880 I I've noticed that, you know, people of, um, of faith, people of conscience, people, uh, just like the average human being that care about women and children and families.

00:28:15.680 So often we tend to remain apathetic, we remain silent, we remain in our comfort zone.

00:28:22.660 We don't like to talk about controversial or political issues, which unfortunately this issue has, has become.

00:28:29.900 And so, so often we're not talking to the people in our communities and our families and saying, you know, I hope that, that this doesn't happen to you.

00:28:40.580 I hope that you don't have an unplanned pregnancy, but if you do, you can come to me.

00:28:46.480 I'm, I'm your safe place.

00:28:49.040 This, this church is your safe place.

00:28:51.720 This community of people, this family of ours, this is your safe place.

00:28:57.000 Meanwhile, the abortion industry is shouting from the rooftops that we are your safe place.

00:29:02.600 You can come to us.

00:29:03.700 You're welcome through our doors.

00:29:05.680 And so I think that, that my birth mother and, and probably her, her mother even who, who took her into this abortion clinic and made that choice on her behalf, um, ran to an abortion clinic out of desperation because she didn't know where to turn.

00:29:24.680 Because nobody in her community was talking about these things.

00:29:29.340 And she felt like there was no hope.

00:29:33.040 There was no grace.

00:29:34.120 There was no forgiveness.

00:29:35.320 There was no path forward other than just covering it up and pretending like it never happened.

00:29:42.860 We've got a lot more with Claire coming up.

00:29:47.500 First, though, text pro-life to 47581.

00:29:50.940 Because as the country grapples with the aftermath of overturning Roe v. Wade, the pro-life movement has come under fire from far-left pro-abortion extremists.

00:30:01.280 Not only have leftists firebombed and vandalized pro-life clinics in multiple states, but online pro-life groups have experienced mass censorship by Google, Facebook, TikTok, you name it.

00:30:13.700 That's why Live Action has been working tirelessly to find ways to spread the truth about abortion and share resources with those who need it most without relying on biased big tech.

00:30:24.560 If you want to join Live Action's Fight for Life, text pro-life to 47581 and opt in to receive updates from Live Action about their ongoing work to end abortion.

00:30:35.540 Texting pro-life to 47581 means you won't be at the mercy of the big tech censors in the ongoing fight for life.

00:30:51.540 So, many women rush to abortion because they just don't know that there are support and resources in communities that are wanting to help them. 0.99

00:31:02.720 But is that true? Are there no resources or are they just not aware of them?

00:31:09.140 Most women, I mean, even like me, when I learned that I had survived my birth mother's abortion, have no idea that there are resources, there are organizations, there are people just like you and I who are ready to walk alongside women and men and families and their children

00:31:29.860 As they navigate an unplanned or difficult or any pregnancy situation, I actually serve on the board of my local pregnancy resource center and that was something that was new to me when I learned that I had been affected by abortion.

00:31:47.160 So, I started learning about all of these incredible organizations and resources that are available and one of them was a pregnancy resource center.

00:31:57.480 And pregnancy resource centers, there are so many in every single state, most cities across the country have some type of pregnancy resource center within maybe 50 or 100 miles of that city.

00:32:17.180 And so, they offer free ultrasounds, free pregnancy testing, material assistance like free baby wipes and diapers and clothing and maternity clothes for the mom, even financial assistance.

00:32:32.940 Some offer STD testing, even more medical services.

00:32:37.820 And so, it's really incredible.

00:32:39.560 There are resources.

00:32:42.000 There are people that want to help women like my birth mother.

00:32:45.160 And my birth mother actually told me just a couple years back that if there had been a place that she could go to that she knew about, that her family knew about, that had told her that they would help her.

00:32:59.700 They would help her be a mom.

00:33:01.160 They would help her finish school.

00:33:03.880 They would help her with all of the things that they thought they couldn't afford with having a baby at such a young age that she wouldn't have felt like she needed to have an abortion.

00:33:14.560 And then when that didn't work, give me away.

00:33:18.100 Those are her exact words.

00:33:20.840 And so, the resources that are available are absolutely incredible.

00:33:25.460 And that's why there are people that pray outside of abortion facilities today so that they can direct women in the direction of the resources and the support that is available to them.

00:33:37.900 Because so often, women that are walking through the doors of an abortion clinic, they're looking for a sign, and they're looking for a place like a pregnancy resource center.

00:33:48.480 So, for a viewer who's pro-life and knows that there shouldn't be an alternative to protecting life, what would you say to those people watching this film in terms of how do they help make an impact on saving life?

00:34:10.540 I think we've spent far too long staying comfortable, staying silent, staying in our zone or our gifting, our unique set of things that we're good at, that we're comfortable with.

00:34:31.540 And I think that we're living in a time where it's life or death for someone like me, for someone like my twin.

00:34:38.780 And it's similar to that for someone like my birth mother who's lived with the agony and the pain and the regret that she's experienced because of the two abortion attempts that she had on my life and the lack of support.

00:34:56.240 And so, I think that we're living in a time where we have to decide that we're going to be people of integrity, we're going to be people who speak truth, who no longer sit on the sidelines, who get out of our comfort zone for things that matter, and who decide that we're going to stand for life.

00:35:14.480 But not only stand for life, we're going to do something about it.

00:35:18.200 And every single one of us can do something about it.

00:35:21.760 If you're a prayerful person, you can pray about this every single day.

00:35:27.680 You can volunteer with your Pregnancy Resource Center.

00:35:31.700 You can get involved in pro-life ministries and organizations and activism.

00:35:38.060 You can vote.

00:35:39.420 Take your pro-life vote to the polls.

00:35:41.840 That's incredibly important right now in our country as we see.

00:35:47.340 And we just have to be bold.

00:35:50.880 We have to decide that we're going to do something.

00:35:53.840 Because if we don't, we will continue to see a culture and a world that values death instead of life.

00:36:07.520 What would you say to the pro-choice person who – and I think maybe you addressed two different people.

00:36:15.400 First, the pro-choice person who says, oh, well, I'm a feminist and I support, you know, women's rights and I support women's access to health care.

00:36:26.760 And, you know, I would never tell a woman what to do with her body.

00:36:30.320 I think I would just ask a pro-choice feminist who cares about women's rights, what were mine. 1.00

00:36:42.240 You know, as a woman, as an unborn woman in the womb who's had no rights, had nobody speaking on my behalf, could have very well been dismembered in the name of women's rights, in the name of choice.

00:36:58.320 I mean, what were my rights?

00:37:01.520 Because I think that in order to empower women, in order to uplift women, as we both want to do, that it's not telling women that she's not strong enough to be a mother, that she's not capable of being a mother.

00:37:20.940 It's actually telling a woman that she can, she is strong enough, she is worthy, she is worthy of walking alongside of, and that she is capable of being a mother.

00:37:32.720 That is women's empowerment to me. 0.99

00:37:35.980 And what would you say to that woman who has recently found out that she's pregnant and is scared and is being told by her boyfriend or her husband, oh, this isn't a good time.

00:37:52.220 We need to get rid of the child.

00:37:53.800 Or is being told by her parents, you know, this is a shame on our family.

00:37:57.120 We can't talk about this or is, you know, alone and doesn't have anyone speaking into her life, but is scared of, about whether or not she can do it.

00:38:10.240 You know, what, what do you say to women who are struggling with those pressures?

00:38:13.880 If you're pregnant today, I would just say that you should know that you're, you're capable of, of being a mother, you are worthy of walking alongside of, that, you know, as an abortion survivor, as an adoptee, as a mother even, that I'm so grateful for my life and for the woman who gave me my life.

00:38:41.940 And, um, you get to do that for your child too.

00:38:47.180 And I know that it might feel scary right now and, um, maybe you don't know where to turn or what to do, but there are people like me who, who want to walk alongside you and that will do that for you.

00:39:01.600 And so I would encourage you to, um, reach out to your local pregnancy resource center or to call love line.

00:39:11.080 Um, because there is somebody that is, is ready to talk with you and walk alongside you because you can, uh, do this and you are strong and capable.

00:39:20.180 Beautiful. You know, so the pro-choice movement right now is, is making a lot of noise about how there's no validation to the claim that women experience regret after having abortions.

00:39:33.540 And I think, was it, uh, the, the Guttmacher Institute who said, oh, well, 90% of women, you know, don't have any regret or, you know, whatever, whatever the statistic is right now.

00:39:43.380 You know, and there are a lot of statistics, a lot of claims that women aren't emotionally impacted by abortion.

00:39:50.120 Um, was that true for your birth mother?

00:39:52.260 My birth mother has deep pain and regret from her abortion experience.

00:39:58.760 In fact, I, I hear from women all across the country and across the world.

00:40:04.160 Um, I, I share my story about 30 to 40 times a year in front of 500 to a thousand people.

00:40:10.120 And every single time a woman came, comes up to me and says, Claire, you're the first person I'm telling this to, but I had an abortion 10 or 15 or 20 or 25 years ago.

00:40:22.800 And it has been the deepest pain and regret of my life.

00:40:28.160 When I met my birth mother, she told me that, uh, she did exactly what her mother asked her to do, which was take this to your grave.

00:40:37.780 Don't tell anyone about this.

00:40:39.460 This will be your, your secret.

00:40:42.180 And she did for 21 years until she met me.

00:40:45.640 And she felt like she just needed to get this weight off her shoulders.

00:40:49.440 She needed to tell me the truth about who I was, about what she had done.

00:40:54.860 Um, she said that this was her deepest, darkest, most painful secret.

00:40:59.740 And that's what I hear across the country from women, just like my birth mother, who are, are deeply pained and scarred from their past abortion experience and don't know that there, um, that there is, is hope after abortion, that there are resources for them, people that even want to walk alongside them through navigating what their abortion experience did to them.

00:41:26.060 What kind of damage does it do to a woman to be told constantly by the pro-choice movement? 0.97

00:41:34.660 Oh, abortion doesn't hurt women. 1.00

00:41:37.180 Like there's no emotional impact on women. 1.00

00:41:39.680 And to know inside that they're hurting and just to feel like, oh, am I the only one?

00:41:47.340 It's, it's hard.

00:41:48.920 I mean, I remember, you know, I haven't had an abortion.

00:41:51.480 I know that that's been hard for my birth mother to hear.

00:41:57.500 Um, but I know for me, if you remember when Newark lit up the Empire State Building, uh, Pink celebrating a woman's right to choose, celebrating, um, this, this new law that made abortion legal through all nine months of pregnancy.

00:42:13.600 Um, abortions could be performed by non-doctors, um, abortions could be performed for any reason, so many different things.

00:42:22.000 This, this law was, was pretty extreme.

00:42:24.820 And I remember sitting there as, as they were celebrating, they were celebrating their right to abortion, um, for any reason, at any stage, any type of procedure, including the, the procedure that dismembered my twin.

00:42:39.940 Um, I remember sitting there and thinking, um, what, what, what about me?

00:42:47.860 Did they not see?

00:42:49.420 Did they not see me?

00:42:51.000 Did they not see my birth mother?

00:42:53.300 Did they not see our pain?

00:42:56.040 I mean, is anyone listening as they, they shout from the rooftops and, and celebrate their right to choose abortion when they're really choosing to end the life of someone like me?

00:43:09.360 And I feel like that's gotta be how women feel. 1.00

00:43:14.500 I, I know I hear from, from women across the country. 0.97

00:43:17.740 I've heard from my own birth mother that when, when abortion is being celebrated, we feel ignored and dismissed.

00:43:29.600 And like, we're, we're, we're the garbage, um, under their feet because nobody even acknowledges what abortion actually does to a child like me and to a woman like my birth mother.

00:43:46.460 And, you know, this, this will seem like an obvious question, but are you glad that you got a chance at life? 0.78

00:43:52.960 I'm so glad that I got a chance at life because I got a chance at life.

00:43:58.840 I've, I've had the, um, privilege of being a daughter to, uh, my parents who, um, who raised us in an incredible way.

00:44:11.260 Um, I had an incredible childhood growing up.

00:44:15.700 My sister and I, we were just like any other, uh, siblings.

00:44:20.200 We, we played, we fought, we, um, we played orphanage.

00:44:24.700 That's pretty funny being adopted children.

00:44:27.680 We, um, that's how positive adoption was in our home.

00:44:31.240 But, um, our life was, was incredible and I, I grew up, I met my birth mother, um, and then I met my husband.

00:44:41.020 I was navigating, uh, what it meant to be an abortion survivor, what it meant to live in a world that didn't want me to exist, that didn't want my, my humanity to be exposed, that, um, said things like,

00:44:56.080 I wish your body was thrown in the dumpster with all the other baby body parts, um, and, and I had a, a hard time at first, um, I actually met my husband and before we got married, I, I became pregnant. 0.63

00:45:14.860 And so here I was sharing my story across the country and I was the woman having the unplanned pregnancy. 0.53

00:45:23.300 Um, and I, I, I had a little bit of a panic with that.

00:45:28.540 I, I felt like I had let a lot of people down.

00:45:32.280 I felt like, I felt like I had let a lot of people down.

00:45:36.100 I felt like I was raised better than that.

00:45:38.860 I knew better than that, um, that this wasn't how my story was supposed to go.

00:45:46.400 Um, but I had what my birth mother didn't have.

00:45:50.980 Even though my, my life was spinning out of control, I, I was living in this world that didn't want me to exist.

00:45:56.920 I was experiencing this unplanned pregnancy that wasn't part of how I thought my story would go.

00:46:03.360 Um, I had, I still had what my birth mother didn't have.

00:46:08.080 And that was the support of my husband who, uh, the father of my child is now my husband.

00:46:13.580 Um, my parents and my friends, the, the biggest voices in, in my head and my heart at the time of my unplanned pregnancy.

00:46:24.560 And so, um, I, I married my, my daughter's dad.

00:46:29.340 He had three children of his own who I've been the, I've had the privilege of being mom to.

00:46:36.220 We've raised our four children in Austin and, um, I've been able to share my, my story across the country in support of, uh, organizations that are making a difference, organizations that are welcoming women like my birth mother, Tanya, through their doors.

00:46:52.880 And, um, it's been an incredible journey.

00:46:58.120 And I'd like to pinpoint a couple of things in, in that story you just shared, you know, a lot of pro-choice advocates say, oh, well, if you don't abort all these unwanted pregnancies, all these unwanted children, they'll just flood the foster care system or orphanages.

00:47:16.460 Can you maybe address some of those arguments, uh, just with, you know, your, your own life story?

00:47:22.720 I don't think that death is the answer to, to poverty or to any, any argument we can make about how, how hard or difficult or unfortunate the life of a child may be.

00:47:38.360 Um, I mean, gosh, what kind of, what kind of place have we gotten to where we, we think that death is a better alternative than actually making a difference?

00:47:50.640 It's being people that can, can adopt and foster and walk alongside people who are and give to ministries that are making a difference in these children's lives.

00:48:00.680 That argument could, could go for me as well.

00:48:04.020 You know, what about the disabled child?

00:48:06.200 Wouldn't their life be so incredibly hard?

00:48:10.340 Well, I, I can tell you that I was born with, um, with dislocated hip and clubbed feet.

00:48:16.740 I had body casts until I was two years old.

00:48:19.660 I wasn't nurtured as a very young infant in the hospital, um, because I hadn't gone home to my parents.

00:48:26.300 I wasn't able to be nurtured in a quote unquote normal way because I had all these casts on my body.

00:48:33.500 I have, um, visited the children's crippled hospital all my life.

00:48:37.720 My feet are still a little bit turned.

00:48:39.680 I still have pain.

00:48:41.260 I'm still, um, what people who argue for abortion for babies who are disabled.

00:48:47.880 I, I am what they're talking about to a certain degree and I am thankful for my life.

00:48:55.460 Regardless of disability, regardless of hardship, I would rather live than die.

00:49:02.400 I would rather live than be dismembered in my birth mother's womb.

00:49:07.380 And so who are we to say that, uh, that a child who might have difficulty, I mean, we all have difficulty.

00:49:16.640 Who are we to say that their life doesn't have meaning, that their life doesn't have value, that we should throw them in the dumpster with the rest of the baby parts. 0.55

00:49:28.760 Who are we to say that?

00:49:31.040 And, you know, you, you mentioned that you had, you wrestled with living in a world that said that it didn't want you.

00:49:37.260 Have you, have you actually had people say something that horrific to your face?

00:49:42.060 Like, did you, have you had pro-choice advocates say like, oh, we wish, you know, that that had happened to you?

00:49:48.220 Or is that more something you were wrestling with just kind of in the abstract?

00:49:51.620 No, that's been, that's been.

00:49:52.980 So people have actually said that to you.

00:49:54.740 Yeah.

00:49:55.080 Um, I've had a lot of people say a lot of horrific things.

00:50:00.620 That's one that stands out to me because it happened within the first year or two after I, I met my birth mother.

00:50:07.960 It was during my, my time of navigating, struggling with, is this really my story?

00:50:14.980 I mean, did this really happen to me?

00:50:17.280 I was grappling with the, the truth that I was an abortion survivor and, and then grappling with the truth that I, society didn't, didn't want me to even be a part of it, didn't want to acknowledge me, my name, my experience, my pain.

00:50:33.620 And, and, and so I had somebody say that to me.

00:50:37.960 And since that day, I've, I've learned not to read many comments, not to listen to the noise, um, and just, just faithfully tell my story because my birth, someone like my birth mother deserves to be fought for.

00:50:56.700 Someone like my twin deserves to be fought for a lot of times when I speak, especially if it's not a, um, private event, I have people come in and protest my existence by holding up signs that say things similar to that.

00:51:13.660 And that's the reality of, um, that's the reality of, of the pro-choice movement in our country that, um, they will acknowledge certain experiences, but if your experience exposes the narrative, that's a lie, that women need abortion, that women have the right to choose, that the unborn baby is not a human being, um, then they disregard you and they dismiss you.

00:51:40.560 Can you basically tell the audience some of the things that pro-choice advocates or people in the pro-choice movement have written to you or yelled at you or held signs up saying about you?

00:51:52.040 People would be shocked.

00:51:54.100 I've had people say things like your, your body should have been thrown in the dumpster with the rest of the baby body parts. 1.00

00:52:01.960 Um, you should never have been born. 0.94

00:52:05.060 Um, things like your, you, you made that up.

00:52:09.200 There's, there's, there's no such thing as an abortion survivor.

00:52:12.620 Um, and I, I hear all of these things.

00:52:15.540 I, I, um, I have to process all of these things that I'm living in a world that, that would rather dismiss, disregard, and be hateful towards me than acknowledge my story, my existence, and my humanity.

00:52:31.400 Because in order to acknowledge my existence, my story, and my humanity, they would have to come to grips with the truth about the unborn baby, about what abortion is and what it does.

00:52:45.540 And so it's easier for them to shout from the rooftops and be hateful and angry and mean instead of say, you know what, this, this person has a real experience.

00:52:56.380 She survived an abortion and her humanity is sitting before me, pointing me in the direction that there's life in the womb and that it is worthy of being protected.

00:53:08.600 Right. So, you know, the pro-choice movement paints itself all the time as, you know, the friends of, the friends of women.

00:53:17.740 The pro-choice movement is not a friend of women.

00:53:21.160 Um, they're not a, a friend to a woman like my birth mother who is desperately looking for someone to walk alongside her for answers, for support.

00:53:31.480 Um, they, they sold her an abortion and they left her, left her hanging. 1.00

00:53:38.880 They sent her home and, and, and they didn't help her navigate her pain in the years that would follow.

00:53:45.520 So the abortion industry, uh, the pro-choice movement is, is not a friend to a woman who's experienced an abortion and certainly not a friend to a woman who survived an abortion like me.

00:53:59.380 And, you know, what would you say, you know, intellectually honest people on both sides of, you know, the debate, whether they're pro-choice or pro-life, are there any common things that people can agree on?

00:54:09.900 You know, you know, oftentimes, you know, it's said that, you know, the best way to convince someone who doesn't agree with you is find the common ground and go from there.

00:54:18.120 Is there a common ground that can be agreed on?

00:54:20.880 I don't see much common ground between, uh, the pro-life side and the pro-choice side.

00:54:27.320 I would say that our similar or the same talking point that we use is that we both care about women.

00:54:34.300 Um, and, and, and I think that is, is true to, to a certain degree at, we, um, on the pro-life side, we care about women, but we also care about the unborn child.

00:54:45.940 So often the, the pro-choice movement paints us, um, as only caring about the child.

00:54:53.440 But you just heard my, my birth mother's story and I, and, and all of my other friends that I know, the people that are leading the pro-life movement, um, we would all say that not only do we care about, about the child, about the child like me, that's fighting for its life.

00:55:13.800 Um, that, um, that, that deserves to be born, to have a birthday, but just as much we care about the woman like my birth mother, because we don't want a woman to experience the pain and the agony that abortion has caused so many like my birth mother, Tanya.

00:55:33.720 Um, and, and, and the pro-choice movement has used that same argument.

00:55:38.920 We care about women.

00:55:40.060 We care about women so much that we care about her body and her right to choose.

00:55:46.060 Um, and I think that so many people that are working in the abortion industry right now have bought into a lie, um, that they're doing something that is good for women, believing that they care about women enough to fight for her in that way.

00:56:03.720 Um, but really what they're doing is causing a lifetime of, of pain and regret.

00:56:10.700 And so I think that we both care about women, um, but we need to, to change that narrative of how do we care for women?

00:56:21.480 We care for women by walking alongside them and saying, you're strong enough, you're capable, you're worthy, you can be a mother.

00:56:31.040 There's so many resources available to women who do, um, carry their pregnancy to term, who do decide to parent.

00:56:40.660 Um, I hear so often how a woman graduated from college and, um, it was her child who motivated her, her unplanned pregnancy child who motivated her to, um, be better and to do better and to advance her career.

00:56:58.920 And the abortion industry to me is, is, is feeding our culture, um, our, our media, even these lies that are being fed to all of us and to our children.

00:57:12.140 And we're so vulnerable, we're so uneducated and so unaware of what is out there and what the truth is that we buy into that lie.

00:57:21.060 And so as a, as a, as a culture, um, even as individual people, it is our responsibility to expose those lies.

00:57:31.500 I can do that through my humanity, through my existence as an abortion survivor.

00:57:36.700 And, um, you can do that through using your voice, through educating yourself and, um, through sharing the truth about what abortion is, what it does,

00:57:47.800 and being that safe place for the people in your community, in your life, who experience unplanned pregnancies.

00:58:00.700 The abortion industry uses women for their own profit. 0.99

00:58:05.120 Claire's mother was coerced, pressured, deceived by her mother and by doctors.

00:58:13.720 These lies are pervasive.

00:58:15.520 They're not difficult to refute, but it can be difficult to penetrate that culture of lies, to get the truth out there.

00:58:26.300 We have to do it.

00:58:27.960 We have to do it because it's right.

00:58:30.440 We have to do it for the victims of abortion.

00:58:33.460 We have to do it for the women who are taken in by this industry, who are used for dollars, even to their own detriment. 1.00

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00:58:49.440 Today, if you join DailyWire.com, you will see not only this full movie, Choosing Death, The Legacy of Roe,

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00:59:18.940 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:59:20.640 This is the Choosing Life Podcast.

00:59:23.080 We'll see you next time.

00:59:24.180 The Choosing Life Podcast is a Daily Wire production, produced in association with Outer Limits.

00:59:32.020 Our technical and support team includes Ian Reed, Jesse Eastman, Ryan Moore, Mariah Cormier, and Jim Word.

00:59:39.140 Copyright Daily Wire 2022.

00:59:41.620 Thanks for listening.

00:59:42.440 The Choosing Life Podcast is a Daily Wire production.

00:59:54.180 We'll see you next time.

The Michael Knowles Show - July 30, 2022

Choosing Life： Surviving a Medical Abortion - Claire Culwell

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