The Michael Knowles Show - Daily Wire Backstage： Now With Even More Dystopia!

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00:00:38.100 Hey, Michael Knowles here, and do I have a treat for you. The latest episode of Daily Wire

00:00:42.040 backstage is right around the corner, and you do not want to miss it. Don't miss me,

00:00:46.960 Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Andrew Klavan, and the God King, Jeremy Boring, as we discuss the latest

00:00:51.360 news and cultural events, all while enjoying some fine whiskey and cigars. It is going to be all

00:00:56.780 that and more. Take a listen.

00:00:58.040 Welcome to the Daily Wire backstage. Joining us tonight, Andrew Klavan. Accused hospital

00:01:27.780 Palmer, Matt Walsh, and keep it straight. Michael Knowles, and I'm very sorry. I know

00:01:34.760 it will cause you great harm and pain that will always be with us. Ben Shapiro, I'm Daily

00:01:39.200 Wire, God King, lowercase g, lowercase k, Jeremy Boring. Listen, we're doing things completely

00:01:44.960 different around here, and we've started adding a members block to every show. This show is

00:01:49.060 no exception, so you'll be with us for the next 90 minutes, and after that, we hope you'll

00:01:52.320 head over to dailywire.com and become a member. You'll get 35% off with code PLUS, because we

00:01:58.300 are, after all, Daily Wire Plus, and we'll be bringing you the members block of Backstage,

00:02:02.840 which is just more of us doing the same thing that we're doing here, only you pay for it.

00:02:06.880 And a thousand times better.

00:02:07.960 So much better.

00:02:08.840 Like, we do all the best stuff for that part.

00:02:11.480 It actually is really important, and as we've made this transition to Daily Wire Plus, we're

00:02:15.080 trying to bring more and more value to our paying subscribers there who make it possible

00:02:19.000 for us to do all of this, and so the members block is just another way of us giving them

00:02:22.800 a little bit of extra access, and we'd love for you to become a member if you are not

00:02:26.600 one already.

00:02:27.600 So, I don't know which one of the two threats to civilization that we're going to be today.

00:02:32.200 Hey, Jeremy, in fairness, so it's true, we've got, you know, the hospital bomber and the

00:02:36.940 podcast convention beer adder, but in fairness, according to Joe Biden, all of us are terrorists

00:02:44.120 because, statistically, the entire Republican Party poses an extreme existential threat to

00:02:50.360 the homeland.

00:02:50.880 Well, you make a fine point, and undoubtedly, he'll be sending F-15s to remedy the situation

00:02:58.180 at any moment.

00:02:58.700 I want to start by talking, Matt, about your situation, apparently.

00:03:02.340 About my plot.

00:03:02.720 About your plot.

00:03:04.940 How did you think you would get away with it?

00:03:08.960 Yeah, it seems too on the nose, I guess.

00:03:11.080 You know, the whole thing is just, it's obviously completely absurd.

00:03:15.640 I mean, the story is that after a couple of weeks of, not just me, by the way, lots of

00:03:21.720 us talking about the fact that Boston Children's Hospital performs gender surgeries on minors,

00:03:27.680 which they do, that is a fact, after talking about this, because what we've been told is

00:03:34.820 that if you even acknowledge this reality, then you are inciting violence, even if you don't

00:03:40.840 say that there is violence.

00:03:41.540 That's right.

00:03:41.820 And then, what do you know, last night, there was supposedly a bomb threat, and immediately

00:03:46.040 the left realized that it's me and also Libs of TikTok as the others.

00:03:50.480 We got together, and we put this bomb threat together, I suppose.

00:03:55.000 You have her number because of her being doxed recently.

00:03:57.620 Exactly.

00:03:58.120 Libs of TikTok is an Orthodox Jew, by the way, so the Catholic-Jewish alliance rides

00:04:01.060 again.

00:04:01.220 There you go.

00:04:01.880 Always.

00:04:02.780 The thing is, even, of course, like, even if there was a bomb threat, there's no connection

00:04:06.920 you can draw to the fact that we are simply talking about something that the hospital

00:04:10.180 does, and then somebody called in a bomb threat.

00:04:12.220 There is no connection there.

00:04:14.520 And I also don't feel, you know, when I first heard about this last night, I didn't go on

00:04:18.320 Twitter and say, I unequivocally condemn bombing hospitals.

00:04:22.860 Because everyone knows that.

00:04:26.220 I don't need to tell you that.

00:04:27.080 That's the game the left wants to play.

00:04:28.440 You say everyone.

00:04:28.960 Again, not to, I mean, unless there are brave right-wing patriots in there trying to fight

00:04:33.820 their government, and then it's just F-15 the hell out of that children's hospital.

00:04:38.220 That's true.

00:04:38.740 But then, of course, it comes, it turns out this morning that it's like, was there even

00:04:42.680 a bomb threat in the first place?

00:04:43.680 But you said, is there even a bomb threat?

00:04:45.260 Why would you doubt the list?

00:04:47.820 Because we're hearing it from the media to begin with.

00:04:50.960 But, you know, the police apparently showed up.

00:04:53.980 The details come out later.

00:04:55.560 The first indication is that the media, last night, they're all over this.

00:04:59.320 This morning, I woke up, I thought there was going to be headlines all over the place

00:05:02.100 about bomb threats at the children's hospital, and there's nothing, they're not talking about

00:05:05.240 it anymore.

00:05:05.980 So that makes you suspicious.

00:05:07.000 And then you realize that the police showed up, they were gone, they cleared the scene

00:05:09.680 in like 30 minutes.

00:05:11.800 And then the post-millennial gets a hold of the police report, they put it out there.

00:05:16.240 On the police report, it never even says there was a bomb threat, just that there was a

00:05:19.180 call about one, and then they showed up, and there was nothing on the scene, and they

00:05:22.780 left, which makes you wonder, was there even a threat?

00:05:25.740 Or did someone at the hospital see that someone left a bag and just, and call and freak

00:05:30.700 out?

00:05:30.960 Or was it a hoax?

00:05:31.640 This is an absolute true story, that we had an employee quit one time, and they filed

00:05:36.380 a series of sexual harassment complaints against the company.

00:05:38.640 When I say a series, I mean an exhaustive series of sexual harassment complaints.

00:05:42.460 And one of them was that one of our employees had been listening to porn on his computer in

00:05:47.360 her presence.

00:05:48.660 And I couldn't, my very first thought was that in the long-storied history of man's fall

00:05:54.840 and sin, no one has ever used the term, listened to pornography.

00:06:00.780 That's just a complete non-starter.

00:06:03.140 And this is kind of that way, like, what is a call about a bomb threat?

00:06:06.720 Like, that language, no one has ever used this language before.

00:06:09.780 Somebody called the hospital, like, somebody just called the hospital and they said, hey

00:06:12.520 guys, have you heard?

00:06:13.760 Have you heard of this thing called a bomb threat?

00:06:16.720 What is it?

00:06:18.580 They've rigged the game here.

00:06:19.620 It's pretty insidious what they're doing.

00:06:21.160 You know, whether the bomb threat, there was no bomb, but whether someone actually called

00:06:24.540 and made the bomb threat.

00:06:25.480 And even if they did, there's no way, was that someone on the left?

00:06:28.000 It seems more likely to me it's someone on the left.

00:06:30.000 The left gains more from a bomb threat than the right does.

00:06:32.440 So who's more likely to call it?

00:06:33.700 Well, beyond that, the left has this stupid game, which is that if they can any way tangentially

00:06:38.800 connect anyone to an act of violence who is prominent on the right, they will do it.

00:06:44.440 And meanwhile, they will openly bail people out of prison in the middle of riots and then

00:06:48.360 declare that they are in favor of funding the police, which is what Joe Biden did this

00:06:51.200 week.

00:06:51.360 So like, they're never responsible for any of the violence that they help.

00:06:54.140 And that's the game, right?

00:06:56.480 Because on this particular issue, what the left wants to say is that there are no gender

00:07:01.480 surgeries happening to minors.

00:07:03.540 That's unequivocally false.

00:07:04.740 It is happening.

00:07:06.600 And then if you speak up and say, well, no, I have evidence that it is happening.

00:07:10.200 Then they said, well, you're a terrorist.

00:07:11.540 You're inciting violence.

00:07:12.380 By the way, it's almost.

00:07:13.420 You're not allowed to prevent, present evidence against them without.

00:07:15.920 It's even a little more insidious because what they will say, it's what Mike Anton calls

00:07:19.700 the celebration parallax.

00:07:21.140 They will say, hey, we're doing gender surgeries for minors.

00:07:25.160 Isn't that great?

00:07:26.360 And then we will say, wait, wait, you're doing gender surgeries for minors.

00:07:29.780 And they'll say, how dare you suggest that?

00:07:31.720 That's a lie.

00:07:32.600 That's evil.

00:07:33.220 And so they're allowed to celebrate what they're doing.

00:07:36.240 The minute you repeat their words back to them with any criticism, you're a conspiracy

00:07:40.040 theorist, kook, hospital bomber.

00:07:42.520 I noticed this, by the way, this week about Lizzo.

00:07:45.000 Lizzo is like, I'm a fat, sex positive woman.

00:07:48.020 You're like, you are a fat, sex positive woman.

00:07:49.900 How dare you?

00:07:51.160 She's a beautiful, beautiful person.

00:07:53.360 You bastard.

00:07:55.480 And just historically beautiful.

00:07:57.240 By every classical standard.

00:08:01.040 You know, I'll tell you, when I see all these kinds of headlines, it makes me want to crawl

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00:09:20.660 So I want to talk about the second big Daily Wire controversy of the last week, and that

00:09:25.420 is Ben's dangerous...

00:09:27.340 Essence.

00:09:27.980 Essence.

00:09:28.320 My essence.

00:09:29.520 His very appearance.

00:09:30.940 My spirit.

00:09:32.060 At podcast movement.

00:09:33.000 I think we have video here of Ben's assault on podcast movement.

00:09:37.680 Just terrifying.

00:09:38.500 Do I need to get a picture?

00:09:39.980 Yeah, one, two, three.

00:09:41.920 God bless you.

00:09:42.800 Thank you.

00:09:43.240 Thank you.

00:09:44.600 All right.

00:09:47.720 Pleasure's been taken to be here.

00:09:49.120 Harrowing.

00:09:53.980 You reached right for him.

00:09:55.380 Look at that.

00:09:56.560 Thank you.

00:09:58.340 Yeah, thanks for everything you do.

00:09:59.380 Thank you so much.

00:09:59.980 I appreciate it.

00:10:00.560 Thank you.

00:10:00.940 I'm excited about it.

00:10:01.800 That's good.

00:10:02.320 Thank you so much.

00:10:02.980 Thank you so much for your support.

00:10:04.280 Thanks, Mike.

00:10:04.680 Thanks for the next two days.

00:10:06.480 Have a great day.

00:10:09.680 Unbelievable.

00:10:10.620 That was harrowing.

00:10:11.440 Yeah.

00:10:11.820 Yeah, I just want to say exactly what happened.

00:10:14.080 I haven't really spoken about this yet, but I actually do think it's an important story.

00:10:18.100 And that's that podcast movement is the premier gathering of podcasters.

00:10:21.680 It's an industry conference that happens every year.

00:10:23.820 I spoke at it last year.

00:10:24.780 It was here in Nashville at the Gaylord.

00:10:26.100 And this year, because the Daily Wire is selling more and more of our own shows as we bring

00:10:31.800 more and more of our sales infrastructure in-house, we sponsored podcast movement.

00:10:36.220 You can go to their website, look under sponsors, there's Daily Wire, and we purchased a booth

00:10:40.120 on the floor at the conference.

00:10:42.040 Well, a very good friend of ours, someone who's been very good to the company, who in the podcast

00:10:46.800 space was also having a retirement party that evening, the evening of podcast movement.

00:10:51.900 So Ben and I flew into Dallas to attend this guy's retirement party, slap him on the back,

00:10:57.540 thank him for everything that he's done for the Daily Wire over the years.

00:11:01.520 While we're there, we stopped by the conference that we are sponsoring to visit the booth that

00:11:07.440 we paid for and our employees who have been there all week working and doing the important

00:11:11.860 work of helping us with our ad sales.

00:11:14.800 And you can see from the video what happened.

00:11:16.540 You know, it's kind of a lightly attended conference.

00:11:18.980 This isn't like, there's not like 25,000 people or something, but the people who were

00:11:22.300 there, people came up, they wanted to get a picture with Ben.

00:11:24.600 We were probably on the floor for all of five minutes, five minutes, yeah, maybe 10.

00:11:29.300 We made a loop, walked around, went to the retirement party, came home.

00:11:33.860 I wake up the next morning and I see these tweets.

00:11:36.500 And I'm going to read the tweets in their entirety because I think that they're so remarkable.

00:11:39.780 This was put out by the official podcast movement Twitter account.

00:11:43.240 Hi folks, we owe you an apology before the sessions kick off for the day.

00:11:47.500 Yesterday afternoon, Ben Shapiro briefly visited the PM22 Expo area near the Daily Wire booth.

00:11:55.440 Though he was not registered or expected, we take full responsibility for the harm done

00:12:01.060 by his presence.

00:12:02.620 Good for them.

00:12:04.160 There's no way around it.

00:12:05.680 That's right.

00:12:06.220 At least they didn't shuck off the responsibility.

00:12:09.440 There's no way around it.

00:12:10.860 We agreed to sell the Daily Wire a first-time booth based on the company's large presence in

00:12:15.440 podcasting.

00:12:16.400 The weight of that decision is now painfully clear.

00:12:20.360 Shapiro is a co-founder.

00:12:22.080 A drop-in, however unlikely, should have been considered a possibility.

00:12:26.340 Many in our community are appalled, not just by this incident, but by our choice to take

00:12:31.520 money from the Daily Wire in the first place.

00:12:34.280 As a Twitter user said, this was signed off on by a human.

00:12:38.720 Yes, during event planning, the dangerous nature of the company's messaging was overlooked.

00:12:46.180 Many in our community are appalled, not just by this incident, but by our choice to take

00:12:51.320 money from the Daily Wire in the first place.

00:12:52.900 I'm repeating myself.

00:12:53.880 The final two tweets.

00:12:55.440 Those of you who called this unacceptable are right.

00:12:58.560 In nine wonderful years growing and celebrating this medium, podcast movement has made mistakes.

00:13:05.880 The pain caused by this one will always stick with us.

00:13:09.800 Forever.

00:13:10.460 We promise that sponsors will be more carefully considered moving forward.

00:13:14.740 Just to clarify, the Daily Wire representatives were scheduled, no Daily Wire representatives were

00:13:20.120 scheduled to appear on panels, and Shapiro remained in the common space and did not have a badge.

00:13:24.800 If you have questions, we're here to talk.

00:13:27.580 Thank you for reading, and we hope you'll continue to join us from here on out.

00:13:32.540 I have to tell you, when I first saw this, I had my usual reaction to everything, which is I cracked up.

00:13:36.740 I started laughing.

00:13:37.600 And then, first of all, I started to feel resentful because I haven't received an apology.

00:13:41.200 I've been here seven years.

00:13:43.620 But the other thing is, it actually isn't as funny as it could be, you know?

00:13:48.740 I mean, whenever anybody attacks George Soros, who is actually an evil plotter trying to destroy

00:13:54.340 America, everybody said, well, you're anti-Semitic, you know, because George Soros passed through

00:13:58.740 a kind of fog of Jewry at some point, you know?

00:14:02.620 And here we have, you know, like the incredible shrinking man, he went through this kind of

00:14:06.800 radioactive thing.

00:14:08.040 You know, an actual Jew is harming us simply by existing.

00:14:12.580 And I have to say, I thought about that for a minute, and I thought, well, what's the

00:14:15.360 answer to his existing?

00:14:16.900 Right.

00:14:17.580 What's the solution?

00:14:18.680 I thought, this actually isn't as funny.

00:14:19.860 Maybe a final.

00:14:20.280 It's not his, you know?

00:14:21.240 You know, it's not, I want a final solution to this.

00:14:23.680 I thought, like, this actually isn't as funny as I thought it was for the first half

00:14:27.320 hour.

00:14:28.180 If Ben's mere presence does harm, then the only way to prevent harm is to ensure that

00:14:33.200 Ben has no presence.

00:14:34.800 The joke's on them, because honestly, I didn't tell anyone, but I did leave some of my aura

00:14:39.140 in the H-verse.

00:14:40.420 So, well after I had left, I still lingered there.

00:14:43.320 And I'll be there for years.

00:14:44.620 Well, I appreciate that you have a sense of humor about it, but it's not funny.

00:14:47.880 It is an actual rhetorical call to violence.

00:14:52.980 Yeah.

00:14:53.520 A rhetorical call to violence to say that-

00:14:55.200 And it's Walsh, and he's a dangerous man.

00:14:56.760 If someone's presence causes harm, then the obvious conclusion is that they must not have

00:15:03.160 presence.

00:15:03.540 The second thing is, we gave these people our money.

00:15:06.020 So, I immediately read these, and I go to DM the president of podcast movement to figure

00:15:11.960 out what the hell, right?

00:15:13.140 How to get your money back.

00:15:13.820 He's preemptively blocked me on Twitter, so I call some of our pals around the movement,

00:15:18.780 you know, people who we've done business with, and ask them to apply some soft pressure.

00:15:22.900 I say, listen, I'm going to have to go to war with podcast movement.

00:15:27.200 I mean, this is an outright act of bigotry.

00:15:29.780 That is the actual correct word.

00:15:31.860 It is an outright expression of bigotry, but I don't want to do that.

00:15:35.220 Please apply some soft pressure and try to get these guys to retract this statement and

00:15:39.720 issue an apology and commit to having the dominant podcast conference in the country be inclusive

00:15:46.200 of the sixth largest podcast company in the world and one of the 10 largest podcasts in

00:15:53.260 the world.

00:15:53.640 It seems like maybe we should be present at podcast movement.

00:15:56.280 So, people made a few phone calls, and then I hear later that evening from one of the owners

00:16:01.180 of podcast movement, and I'm going to tell you what the guy said, and I'm going to say

00:16:08.480 something about myself that I'm actually a little embarrassed about, which is I cried

00:16:12.900 on this phone call.

00:16:14.160 My voice started to break.

00:16:15.940 I got so emotional.

00:16:17.720 I've never gotten emotional over one of these things before.

00:16:19.980 We get canceled.

00:16:20.780 We get called racist.

00:16:21.640 We get called whatever, right?

00:16:23.160 And, you know, I take it.

00:16:25.280 It doesn't bother me.

00:16:26.520 Obviously, Ben's got a great perspective on it.

00:16:29.080 Here's what happened.

00:16:29.660 The guy calls me, and I'm just going to hear him out.

00:16:33.280 I'm going to hear what he has to say, hoping maybe that this is the resolution we've been

00:16:36.960 looking for, and he starts the call.

00:16:39.240 He's got a great radio voice.

00:16:40.800 All these guys have great radio voices.

00:16:42.520 Truly.

00:16:42.960 And he says, Jeremy, you know, so-and-so gave me your phone number, and I just wanted to

00:16:47.160 let you know that we have a policy here in podcast movement that the talent not appear.

00:16:53.540 And you'll notice, like, Joe Rogan has never appeared on our stage.

00:16:57.000 We don't like for the talent to appear.

00:16:58.440 And so Ben showing up caused some of my other sponsors to be angry because they want to

00:17:03.580 know, why can't our talent be here if Ben can be here?

00:17:07.180 And so I just want you to know this statement is a reaction to other sponsors being angry

00:17:13.100 that their talent didn't get equal treatment.

00:17:15.060 That's why I called for his extermination.

00:17:16.840 That's right.

00:17:18.080 And he said-

00:17:18.900 A little leap.

00:17:19.500 He said, this was not in any way political.

00:17:23.640 And when he said it, I'm embarrassed about it.

00:17:28.020 I got so adrenalized and so upset.

00:17:31.060 And I said, not in any way political.

00:17:33.660 And I just started reading from the tweets, the danger of this company, the dangerous-

00:17:38.860 Endless pain.

00:17:39.540 The pain that will be with us forever, the harm caused by his very presence.

00:17:43.820 You're saying that that isn't political?

00:17:45.840 You're saying that that's because he showed up?

00:17:47.880 By the way, podcast hosts appear on all of their panels.

00:17:52.380 It's just nonsense.

00:17:53.300 The whole fracking conference is for podcasters, for people in podcasting.

00:17:58.920 I said, you're going to tell me this isn't political?

00:18:00.560 You called, you canceled us from the place.

00:18:03.800 You sent us an email that said we can't be here anymore.

00:18:06.000 No, we did not ban you from the conference.

00:18:07.920 Your people are there now.

00:18:09.260 Right.

00:18:09.720 Because I told them to ignore your stupid email and go to our booth anyway.

00:18:14.440 I said, there's no one else in the world who would be subjected to this kind of bigotry

00:18:18.340 and you get away with it.

00:18:21.260 You could not treat a black man this way.

00:18:23.380 You could not treat a lesbian woman this way.

00:18:24.980 You could not treat anyone on the left in any way.

00:18:27.720 Disney would have walked out of the conference, right?

00:18:29.880 Like, iHeart and Westwood One, Cumulus, all would have walked out of the conference.

00:18:34.060 But you can treat a conservative this way with unadulterated bigotry on the page.

00:18:41.260 Anyway, what I told the guy, well, I didn't say all that.

00:18:43.500 What I said to the guy was, take down the tweet, apologize for the tweet,

00:18:49.700 and commit to keeping this conference a neutral place for all podcasters.

00:18:54.980 And he said, well, now the problem with that is that just makes it political on the other side.

00:18:59.760 And I said, yeah, I can't unstep on the fucking rake for you, pal.

00:19:05.320 This is an actual, take it down and apologize.

00:19:09.280 I said, well, I'll have to talk to my people about whether or not we can do that.

00:19:12.300 So, of course, the day goes by.

00:19:14.700 It doesn't get taken down.

00:19:15.480 The next day goes by.

00:19:16.300 It doesn't get taken down.

00:19:16.900 Then I get a call from the guy, and he says, hey, we're going to have a meeting.

00:19:21.060 The conference is over now, and we're going to have a meeting on Tuesday.

00:19:24.640 Everybody needs Monday off because we put in a hard week's work, you know, showing prejudice to Jews.

00:19:31.960 Hard day's work.

00:19:34.220 He said, but I'm going to get the team together and see if maybe we can make a new policy, he said.

00:19:38.680 And he did offer me my money back.

00:19:41.500 We had paid $30,000 or something like that for the booth.

00:19:43.980 I hope you took it.

00:19:44.580 No, I told him to keep the money.

00:19:46.260 Really?

00:19:46.720 Yeah, I said, I don't care about the $30,000.

00:19:48.600 I care about my $200 million business that you injured.

00:19:52.060 I care about my 250 employees whose jobs you put at risk by using your leadership position in the podcast movement

00:19:59.800 to communicate that our very existence causes harm and that the words that we speak are dangerous

00:20:05.720 and cause pain that will never cease.

00:20:08.120 That's what I'm concerned about.

00:20:10.100 Fracking apologize.

00:20:11.600 So he calls me after the conference is over.

00:20:13.560 He says, we're going to get together.

00:20:15.520 Craft a policy.

00:20:16.680 Maybe we'd like Ben to be on stage with somebody from the left next year.

00:20:19.960 Maybe we'd like you guys to help us with the policy.

00:20:21.780 Or maybe we'll decide in our policy just not to have politics from either side going forward.

00:20:26.380 But one way or the other, we'll let the new policy be our statement.

00:20:29.180 Great.

00:20:29.480 And I said, well, I'd love to work on that policy if you take down the offensive tweets that call for the annihilation, essentially,

00:20:36.300 the rhetorical annihilation of one of my close friends and business partners, and commit to not doing that in the future.

00:20:42.840 I said, and while you're at it, make sure that your apology is just as groveling as the apology that you put out for taking our money.

00:20:49.520 Because a bigot who commits bigotry really should grovel a little bit for all of our forgiveness.

00:20:57.020 Like, that's a thing that actually causes harm, that actually causes pain.

00:21:01.960 So he says, well, I'm going to call you on Tuesday if you'll hold off on hitting us until Tuesday.

00:21:06.620 And I said, I will.

00:21:07.320 I will hold up.

00:21:07.820 I will let you have your meeting.

00:21:09.080 Don't worry.

00:21:09.460 Backstage is Wednesday.

00:21:10.420 That's right.

00:21:10.880 Backstage is Wednesday.

00:21:12.160 So yesterday at 6 p.m. our time, I get a call from the assistant of the man who preemptively blocked me on Twitter,

00:21:20.180 who's the president of podcast movement.

00:21:22.560 And she says, you know, the president of the movement would really like to talk to you.

00:21:27.000 Could you get back to us?

00:21:27.840 So we returned the call, probably within a half hour.

00:21:31.680 They got back to us today and said, very much would like to talk to you.

00:21:35.300 Our first availability is September 14th at 3 p.m.

00:21:38.260 Stop it.

00:21:39.220 September, two weeks from now, at 3 p.m., I can finally get on the phone with a guy who preemptively blocked me

00:21:44.520 after apologizing for taking my money and saying that the existence, the mere presence of my friend and business partner causes harm.

00:21:53.920 This is, again, I've said it before, this is a kind of bigotry that could not be expressed against any other kind of person that exists in our country today.

00:22:08.200 And there will be essentially no consequences for these sons of bitches.

00:22:13.240 They'll blow us off.

00:22:15.040 They'll talk to us in a few weeks, and maybe they'll write a policy.

00:22:18.020 The tweets will stay up.

00:22:19.500 There will be no backlash.

00:22:20.420 People will celebrate them.

00:22:21.580 They've already lied to you when they said this is not political.

00:22:24.100 Lied to our face saying it's not political.

00:22:26.920 And I'd like to point out here that, again, there are a lot of podcast companies there,

00:22:31.240 and they are all supposedly in favor of things like open debate and talking about things.

00:22:35.460 And I can guarantee you this, if they had said about, say, John Lovett at Pod Save America

00:22:40.480 and coming and visited the Crooked booth, and they had said that his very presence caused harm,

00:22:45.020 and therefore he was banned, I would have been openly mocking them, as would you.

00:22:48.260 Of course.

00:22:48.920 Online.

00:22:49.620 We would have gone to podcast movement.

00:22:51.320 We would have threatened to take our booth off the floor for that sort of thing.

00:22:54.460 We would have said that we would not co-sponsor the event.

00:22:56.480 As far as I'm aware, zero companies.

00:22:58.800 I think maybe there's one guy, Dan Granger.

00:23:00.700 From Oxford Road.

00:23:01.480 From Oxford Road, who put out a statement saying this is unacceptable and ridiculous.

00:23:04.080 Because not a single other company, including companies that make tens of millions of dollars

00:23:08.820 off my show personally, right?

00:23:10.280 I'm the one whose essence is threatening.

00:23:11.920 That's right.

00:23:12.140 My herbal essence is threatening.

00:23:13.500 Our own representatives in this space who have made tens of millions of dollars

00:23:17.620 could not be bothered to validate our right, to publicly validate our right to exist.

00:23:23.280 Plus, when they do this to people like, what's that guy's, Alex, what's his name?

00:23:27.140 Alex Jones.

00:23:27.620 Alex Jones.

00:23:28.220 The guy's at least a loon, whereas you're pretty much a conservative.

00:23:32.700 But again, this isn't based on anything Ben said.

00:23:34.920 Right.

00:23:35.260 This is correct.

00:23:35.980 I was there.

00:23:37.040 I didn't have a conversation with anyone about politics.

00:23:38.740 But even beyond that.

00:23:39.640 But you represent ideas and all that.

00:23:42.320 For sure.

00:23:42.900 Those ideas are central to American thought.

00:23:47.000 They always have been.

00:23:47.900 You've never come on and said anything that made the rest of us move away.

00:23:51.600 Your presence, of course, has.

00:23:53.020 As I've said before, I am not sure that it's bewildering to me on a personal level, because

00:23:59.680 you guys all know me.

00:24:00.540 You've known me for years.

00:24:01.760 The gap between me and the perception of me as highly dangerous human and then me in

00:24:06.680 reality is maybe the greatest gap between supposed dangerous human and person in reality

00:24:11.220 that I've ever seen.

00:24:12.300 It's too popular.

00:24:12.760 But it's the fact that people listen to the show and people watch what we do, and that's

00:24:16.600 what scares the hell out of them.

00:24:17.460 And so what they are actively attempting to do now is cast an entire side of the political

00:24:20.980 aisle out of the movement.

00:24:24.180 Which is central to this.

00:24:25.520 And if there's not solidarity.

00:24:28.140 This is so indicative of, there were some people online who aren't part of the podcast

00:24:33.260 movement space.

00:24:34.760 Ryan Grimm at The Intercept, who's on the left, or Yashar Lee, who's on the left, who

00:24:37.880 came out and said, this is insane and ridiculous.

00:24:39.620 Of course.

00:24:40.020 But in the podcast.

00:24:41.080 And good on them.

00:24:41.820 Right.

00:24:42.200 Good for them.

00:24:43.100 In the podcast space, where are you guys?

00:24:46.380 Where are you guys?

00:24:46.780 So I'll say this.

00:24:47.960 The day before, actually not the day, the day this happened, we had a meeting with one

00:24:52.280 of the companies that we do business with.

00:24:53.640 And somebody at that company said, you know what I'd love to do?

00:24:55.780 I would love to broker a joint show between you and the people of Pod Save America.

00:25:01.060 And I said to them, that's never going to happen.

00:25:03.720 And the reason it's never going to happen is because these people do not want us to be

00:25:08.720 a company that is on the air.

00:25:10.240 They do not want our company to exist.

00:25:12.320 I mean, Dan Pfeiffer from Pod Save America literally went on MSNBC and said that we should be quashed

00:25:15.980 because we have too much reach.

00:25:18.160 I've said many times, I say on my show routinely, I say, if you want to know, people always ask,

00:25:22.540 how do I discern the fact in an opinion podcast from the opinion?

00:25:25.300 And what I always say literally every time is, listen to my show, listen to Pod Save America,

00:25:29.260 the stuff where we're saying the same stuff, that's the core of facts.

00:25:31.720 Everything else is an opinion takeaway.

00:25:33.680 That's at least a good rule of thumb.

00:25:35.420 Okay.

00:25:36.340 So listen to their show.

00:25:37.780 That's right.

00:25:38.080 They would never in a million years say that anyone should listen to the show.

00:25:41.860 In fact, they would say that the show should come off the air.

00:25:43.920 And so the whole predicate of us having a functioning republic is the idea that there

00:25:47.700 are a bunch of people I disagree with who should be allowed at things like a neutral

00:25:50.780 free speech space like podcast movement.

00:25:53.700 And no one out, literally no one at that event filled with these companies that do free

00:25:59.320 speech for a living.

00:26:00.460 No one except for Dan, literally no one said a public word to chastise podcast movement

00:26:06.520 for this.

00:26:06.840 That's insane to me.

00:26:07.960 But this is the key.

00:26:08.620 But this is, they take down libs of TikTok for basically putting the left on video.

00:26:13.720 It's just holding a mirror up to what they are.

00:26:15.820 It's the mirror that does it.

00:26:17.120 When you're a vampire, you don't want to look at them.

00:26:18.500 But you hit the nail on the head, Jeremy, which is that they're going after Ben because

00:26:22.760 Ben is the big guy.

00:26:24.360 He's the big dog in the space and you have giant reach Ben.

00:26:26.720 And so this is what really spooks me about this.

00:26:30.300 You have giant reach because you are as mainstream as it gets.

00:26:35.440 So when they say Ben Shapiro is too far, I say, you ever listen to my show?

00:26:42.480 Are you kidding me?

00:26:43.980 Ben Shapiro is as mainstream as it gets.

00:26:45.780 So what they're really saying is the entire right is gone.

00:26:50.080 This is when Joe Biden says, listen, some Republicans are good Republicans, but the MAGA

00:26:55.100 Republicans, by which he means everyone, by which he means statistically everyone other

00:27:00.060 than Bill Kristol and his like four friends who have tea together, you know, 100% statistically

00:27:05.600 of the Republican Party is in a sort of sometimes kind of way, MAGA Republicans.

00:27:10.380 But I'm not saying get rid of half the country.

00:27:13.040 Here's what really worries me is like the combination of things happening because on

00:27:17.080 one hand, there's an escalation of it's not just your opinions that are harmful, it's

00:27:20.720 your very presence.

00:27:21.420 And then we're being told that all MAGA Republicans, which is most Republicans, are extremists and

00:27:25.900 a threat to democracy for voting as a threat to democracy.

00:27:29.360 We're being told that if conservatives simply speak and present arguments or actually present

00:27:35.180 facts that were terrorists, stochastic terrorists is the phrase now that they like to use.

00:27:39.480 Libs at TikTok, as you point out, she got kicked off of Twitter.

00:27:42.620 They didn't even give her a reason.

00:27:43.800 They just said, you're gone.

00:27:44.940 And then on top of that, so that's what's happening.

00:27:48.240 And then also there's another escalation in just the total lack of accountability on the

00:27:52.440 left.

00:27:52.840 And we're sort of used to that, but it's, it seemed to be worse now than it's ever been

00:27:56.040 where there's just, they can do whatever they want.

00:27:58.240 I mean, I've been having this back and forth with this person on Twitter who's been like

00:28:04.200 openly organizing this drug running operation to minor children with hormone drugs.

00:28:12.460 Committing felonies.

00:28:13.180 Committing felonies, breaking probably 50 laws all at once.

00:28:18.300 And, you know, you contact the DEA, you contact everyone, you can't, nobody cares.

00:28:21.840 So there's no accountability.

00:28:23.120 All that's happening at once.

00:28:23.920 And then what does that, what does that do?

00:28:25.520 First of all, it, it, it creates an environment where they're basically setting the stage here

00:28:31.220 to start essentially rounding people up and I don't know, throwing them in prison.

00:28:34.340 But then on the right, it also has this radicalizing effect because people get desperate.

00:28:38.740 I mean, they're, they're accusing us of being radicals and being dangerous.

00:28:41.780 And it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

00:28:43.540 It's actually what they want.

00:28:44.860 And they're going to create that because people, when they look around and see there's no

00:28:48.340 accountability, these people can do whatever they want to us.

00:28:50.700 The rules don't apply to them.

00:28:52.220 It is radicalizing.

00:28:53.200 It makes people desperate.

00:28:54.780 And desperate people do become dangerous.

00:28:56.920 And it's the, it's the end game of something that's been going on for 50, 60 years, though.

00:29:01.000 This idea that we, that they are the people who determine what virtue is, who determine

00:29:07.520 what racism is.

00:29:08.560 I mean, they call, they call us racist, not because we're racist.

00:29:12.020 I don't actually know that many racists, but they call us because we disagree with them.

00:29:16.580 And so if they set the standard, our ideas are the non-racist ideas.

00:29:20.300 If you disagree with us, then ultimately we are going to be, you know, basically demonized.

00:29:26.380 Absolutely.

00:29:26.960 A lot of people, one of the things I really loved about this whole episode, the only thing

00:29:29.900 I really loved about this whole episode is that on Twitter, I must've read 200 reactions

00:29:35.320 that were, I guess they're going to start their own podcast movement now.

00:29:40.040 Will they call it Jeremy's podcast conference?

00:29:42.300 Like we've established a reputation at the Daily Wire as we don't take this stuff lying down

00:29:47.800 and we don't just complain about it, we challenge.

00:29:49.860 And so, you know, a lot of people want to know what we're going to do.

00:29:52.100 It took a minute to come up with IHateHarrys.com, like Jeremy's Razors wasn't like an overnight

00:29:56.500 thing, right?

00:29:57.100 And we're not going to tell you.

00:29:58.060 We're just going to do it.

00:29:59.020 We're not going to tell you.

00:29:59.760 We're just going to do it.

00:30:00.560 But I will say this, we will not allow podcast movement to continue to present itself as a

00:30:08.720 neutral place.

00:30:09.340 If you're a conservative podcaster, they don't want you there.

00:30:12.620 If you're a conservative podcaster and you're with any of the major podcasting companies,

00:30:17.000 they don't care to defend you.

00:30:18.920 They want to make money off of your success while your political foes try to destroy you.

00:30:27.180 And then they will watch you die when the left finally does land the kill shot.

00:30:31.560 And then they will shake their heads, find another conservative talent and go extract

00:30:35.860 money quietly from them.

00:30:37.000 It's even worse.

00:30:37.460 That's the game.

00:30:38.820 It's the minute, not that they step out of line, this conservative who goes,

00:30:42.580 it's the minute they get anywhere near as big as Ben Shapiro.

00:30:46.600 The minute you're a little too successful, that's when you're at it.

00:30:49.480 It's also a sign of weakness.

00:30:50.860 I mean, if you guys watch Netflix, I mean, Netflix fired a lot of its social justice warriors.

00:30:57.160 But if you watch the stuff that they say is their top shows, for a while after George

00:31:02.800 Floyd, it was all Black Lives Matter material.

00:31:06.200 And I was sitting there going like, nobody's watching this.

00:31:07.860 They're telling us this is number one, two, three.

00:31:09.660 Then slowly, it just vanished.

00:31:11.540 It just disappeared.

00:31:12.720 And I just thought like, yeah, because, you know, it's basically a, it's still basically

00:31:17.160 a center-right country.

00:31:18.660 Black people are as conservative as anybody else.

00:31:21.440 The Hispanic group, whatever they want to call them now, they're drifting over to the

00:31:26.560 right.

00:31:26.980 They're losing, they are losing the people who have supported them all these years because

00:31:31.220 they're saying, you know, this doesn't represent me.

00:31:32.880 It doesn't represent most people to have their kids told that they're the wrong state.

00:31:36.760 But they, it might be a center-right country, but we, our vote doesn't really count culturally.

00:31:41.680 Whereas if you're in a protected class, your vote counts times 10, which is, which is another

00:31:45.560 important point here about this, uh, about the podcast conference is that from what I

00:31:49.420 saw, there certainly was, it wasn't like they were getting, because Ben showed up, they

00:31:54.220 were getting all this pressure for publicly, people were coming out and blasting them.

00:31:57.680 I saw one person, it was, it was a trans person, right?

00:32:00.800 I think one, one person, it was a woman, it was in the tweet, it said uterus.

00:32:05.180 It was a trans, it was a trans man, I think.

00:32:07.700 Okay.

00:32:08.140 Yeah.

00:32:08.360 Well, it had a uterus.

00:32:09.320 And so I call that person a woman.

00:32:10.960 You monster.

00:32:11.820 As I learned from your film.

00:32:12.940 What's wrong with you?

00:32:13.840 So one, one person that we could tell complained, they're in a protected class.

00:32:19.020 They, they, they have the LGBT thing that they can claim.

00:32:21.660 And, and because of that one complaint, that's the power that they wield.

00:32:25.180 That's right.

00:32:25.740 The, the, at the time that podcast movement put out their groveling, bigoted bullshit tweet,

00:32:30.420 I believe that that original post had 15 likes.

00:32:33.560 Yep.

00:32:33.740 And I said to the guy on the, on that first phone call, you chose, you, you made a calculated

00:32:39.680 risk assessment and concluded that the higher risk to your company was to get on the wrong

00:32:46.420 side of a person with 15 likes, as opposed to expressing bigotry to a company with 50 million

00:32:53.840 monthly listeners.

00:32:54.920 You made that calculation, but, and you probably, he probably isn't wrong.

00:32:58.220 That is where the great risk is the left, because they are so totalitarian because they're so

00:33:03.080 unforgiving because they're so tyrannical right now.

00:33:05.760 But is that a real risk?

00:33:06.800 I mean, what if, what if people just stood up to them?

00:33:09.500 Well, then it would go away like anything else, right?

00:33:11.640 That would be the end of it, which is why the fact that people who actually profit off

00:33:15.020 of us couldn't be bothered to acknowledge our right to exist is the most deeply offensive

00:33:19.160 part of the whole thing.

00:33:20.340 And I will turn this into a promo because it is a direct attack on our business.

00:33:24.160 I mean, we derive a great percentage of our revenue from ads on our shows.

00:33:27.860 That's a big part of how we stay in business.

00:33:30.060 And this is a direct attack on our ability to function in the podcast ad space.

00:33:34.700 And that's another reason to be grateful to our Daily Wire Plus subscribers.

00:33:39.560 Please go over to Daily Wire Plus, become a subscriber.

00:33:41.720 If you're not one, if you are one, please stick with us.

00:33:44.940 That is the only safe revenue that we have as a company, is the people who want to be in

00:33:50.820 this fight with us.

00:33:51.820 That's why we're adding things like members block.

00:33:53.500 It's why we have been bringing all access back online now that we're recovering from

00:33:57.120 those technological deficits that we've had.

00:33:59.600 And there are still a few wrinkles, but it's all, you know, we're moving forward and trying

00:34:04.240 to make this community part of the Daily Wire Plus really come to the fore.

00:34:08.420 Because at the end of the day, it's the only thing we've got.

00:34:11.640 Even the people who make eight figures a year off of us will not acknowledge publicly our

00:34:16.440 right to exist.

00:34:17.120 This is why the right has ignored, the right ignoring the culture for so long has gotten

00:34:24.220 us into this position.

00:34:25.140 That's right.

00:34:25.520 Always talking politics, but this is pure culture.

00:34:28.040 It's pure culture that he feels that a 15-like tweet from some, you know, protected class person

00:34:33.960 is more dangerous than losing your audience, losing our audience.

00:34:37.740 It's an amazing thing what happens to the mind when a narrative takes over, when a narrative

00:34:43.080 is promulgated.

00:34:43.640 It's about the right being nice and the right saying we don't want to engage in tactics.

00:34:46.920 We don't want to push.

00:34:48.000 That's right.

00:34:48.540 We want to be cordial.

00:34:49.720 It's a free market.

00:34:50.460 They can say what they want.

00:34:51.520 Well, here's the thing.

00:34:52.420 If you guys don't push back, then it's asymmetric.

00:34:54.700 It's completely asymmetric.

00:34:55.860 It means that they do, in a certain sense, have more to fear.

00:34:59.720 Until we existed, until Daily Wire existed, they did have more to fear from the idiot

00:35:03.920 with 15 followers on Twitter than they did from multi-million dollar or even billion dollar

00:35:08.900 conservative companies.

00:35:09.900 Because those conservative companies would just sit back there and they would take it.

00:35:12.960 They would sit there and they'd say, okay, well, you know, we exist at your sufferance.

00:35:15.280 We understand we exist at your sufferance.

00:35:17.040 And so, you know, we understand what you're doing.

00:35:18.820 We get it.

00:35:19.280 We get that they're mean and they're nasty.

00:35:20.960 We're over here.

00:35:21.460 We're nice.

00:35:22.100 But you know what?

00:35:23.460 Screw that.

00:35:24.180 That's right.

00:35:24.440 Okay?

00:35:24.560 Because the reality is that we're not nice anymore.

00:35:27.160 If you're going to seek to destroy us, then we are not going to sit here and be destroyed.

00:35:30.460 That is not something that I do not acquiesce to the erasure of my own existence.

00:35:34.520 That is not something to do.

00:35:35.540 I'm sorry, but I like existing.

00:35:37.360 I'm addicted to breathing.

00:35:38.280 There are certain things I'm not willing to do.

00:35:39.640 And not existing is one of the things I am not willing to do.

00:35:42.340 But we don't even have to fight at their level.

00:35:44.760 All we have to do is speak out without fear because the things that we say make sense to most people.

00:35:49.880 And I think that that's the whole problem.

00:35:51.380 But cowards need to be punished.

00:35:52.500 What's that?

00:35:52.840 Cowards need to be punished.

00:35:53.960 And we need to mobilize, too.

00:35:55.820 The good news, I think, is that people on the right are hungry to mobilize and to get out.

00:35:59.460 I hear this from people all the time.

00:36:00.880 They're ready.

00:36:01.500 They want to get out.

00:36:01.980 They want to do something.

00:36:03.060 That's one of the reasons why they love the Daily Wire so much is that we are out there doing things.

00:36:07.020 So that's the good news.

00:36:07.900 But they need an outlet.

00:36:09.220 That's one thing.

00:36:09.660 The left also, they own the culture.

00:36:11.280 They're much, much better at mobilizing.

00:36:14.300 If they're upset about something, they're going to show up.

00:36:16.400 And you know they are.

00:36:17.220 The right is much more reticent to do that.

00:36:19.220 I mean, we could show up at the podcast movement conference next year and have 10,000 people picketing or whatever.

00:36:25.140 We agreed not to talk about it.

00:36:28.040 Hypothetically, I'm just saying, you don't want your thing to be political.

00:36:31.160 We can make it real political.

00:36:32.140 Make it more political than you ever.

00:36:33.000 We could do that.

00:36:33.780 So it's just, there is that hunger to really.

00:36:37.520 I agree.

00:36:37.820 For a long time, there was a strain on the right where the right wanted to lose.

00:36:43.440 If we were going to lose, we were going to lose with dignity.

00:36:46.000 You know, we're just going to step back and lose with dignity.

00:36:48.460 And I think what you realize from that tweet thread from podcast movement, what you realize from them saying, yeah, Ben Shapiro shouldn't exist, that's not very dignified.

00:36:57.380 That doesn't feel, and so I have no interest in losing.

00:37:00.140 I don't want to lose in an undignified way.

00:37:02.480 You know what I'd rather do?

00:37:03.120 I'd rather win with dignity and honor and winning.

00:37:06.960 And that's why the Daily Wire is committed to building alternatives.

00:37:09.820 Because at the end of the day, one of the reasons that the right has gone along with this is because what else are you going to do?

00:37:15.200 You still need a razor.

00:37:16.440 You know what?

00:37:17.020 Now you don't.

00:37:17.540 If you're still shaving with a razor from a razor company that hates you, you're doing that by choice.

00:37:22.380 You're not doing that because you don't have alternatives.

00:37:24.400 If you're still getting your news from news companies that hate you, you're doing that.

00:37:29.220 You've decided to do it.

00:37:30.340 You have an alternative.

00:37:31.460 We and others are providing.

00:37:32.360 That's why we're launching into this kids' content so that you don't have to put your kids in front of what the left wants to serve them up.

00:37:37.640 That's why we're launching entertainment.

00:37:38.840 Who knows what we'll launch next?

00:37:40.320 Other people need to jump into this space.

00:37:41.780 There are a few, of course, Dan Bongino and others in this parallel economy space.

00:37:45.140 But we have to create economic incentive to move.

00:37:49.180 Because at the end of the day, podcast movement is just a business.

00:37:51.960 It's a business that has made a risk calculation.

00:37:54.520 I want them to reevaluate that risk calculation.

00:37:57.460 And I want to make all of these—I think to have a free country, you have to have a largely neutral economic sphere.

00:38:04.720 The economic sphere needs to be—you don't need to have to think about the politics of your toilet paper company.

00:38:11.540 If you do, it is a real sign that your country is in trouble.

00:38:14.720 And until we have Jeremy's toilet paper company, or Dan Bongino's—I think I'll let Dan do that.

00:38:20.260 I'll look forward to that, actually.

00:38:22.440 Bongino four-ply.

00:38:23.880 But until we have these things, we can't create the conditions for the left.

00:38:27.440 I can express a lot of hostility of Jeremy's—

00:38:29.340 Oh, it'll be rough.

00:38:34.580 Well, folks, you know, this has all been rather a downer.

00:38:38.540 And I have some even worse news for you.

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00:38:43.160 And what that means is that you need life insurance.

00:38:45.420 You know, God forbid you're walking down the street, and suddenly one of Joe Biden's F-15s just scrapes you.

00:38:50.400 And you want to make sure that your family is taken care of.

00:38:53.160 You know, we pay hundreds of dollars per year to protect our homes, our cars, even our phones.

00:38:56.060 Too many of us aren't taking steps to protect our families and finances.

00:38:59.120 Mortgage payments, private student loans, other types of debt don't just disappear.

00:39:01.940 Well, maybe student loans.

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00:39:44.860 So we've talked a lot about the threat that we represent, obviously, in the world.

00:39:49.520 But we haven't talked about the great savior of the country against threats like ours.

00:39:55.020 And that's, of course, our fearless and absolutely still cogent president, Joe Biden,

00:39:59.560 who has declared us all to be renegades and scoundrels who need to be bombed from the air.

00:40:05.080 Which is like, we're semi-fascist, right?

00:40:07.080 Which is like a quasi-Nazi.

00:40:08.820 Yeah, yeah.

00:40:09.980 Nazi-adjacent.

00:40:10.800 Not like full-fascist.

00:40:11.920 Quasi-Nazi has a ring to it.

00:40:13.360 Quasi-Nazi, yeah.

00:40:14.580 So he says that we are a threat to democracy itself.

00:40:17.500 We're also a threat to the future of human existence.

00:40:19.540 He said that because of climate change, of course, which makes us somewhere between Hitler and Thanos,

00:40:23.840 which is exciting stuff.

00:40:25.360 I mean, the phenomenal cosmic power we wield is just beyond compare.

00:40:29.920 I think Gina Carano was actually canceled by Disney for comparing Thanos to Hitler.

00:40:33.700 I don't remember all the details.

00:40:35.700 In any case, there was something that struck me when I heard Joe Biden suggesting that those

00:40:41.800 who oppose him are semi-fascist.

00:40:43.080 And that is, these people, people are so ignorant.

00:40:46.320 And when they hear fascist, they just hear Hitler.

00:40:48.160 And when they think of Hitler, they just think of the worst thing that Hitler did, the Holocaust.

00:40:51.400 And so what Joe Biden means when he says semi-fascist is that you want to perform holocausts or something.

00:40:57.360 But when you actually think about the history of fascism,

00:40:59.600 typically fascism begins with the usurpation of massive centralized power and executive authority

00:41:04.540 free of legislative oversight.

00:41:06.640 So I started thinking, can I think of any recent examples of massive usurpations of executive authority?

00:41:14.040 Unconstitutional usurpations.

00:41:15.660 You know, things where people say, I don't actually have the power to do that.

00:41:18.620 And then they just go ahead and do it.

00:41:20.600 Like, say, I don't know, $500 billion in student loan relief that you said one year ago

00:41:25.940 you did not have the power to do, the single largest expenditure by the executive branch

00:41:29.980 via an executive order in the history of the United States.

00:41:32.880 Right.

00:41:33.300 I mean, it would be, I could see why Joe Biden might forget about that since it was four days ago.

00:41:37.780 And Joe Biden has-

00:41:38.920 He tried to ride a bicycle since then.

00:41:40.180 That's true.

00:41:40.600 He does have the memory of a guppy.

00:41:41.920 But the fact that we are all supposed to believe that true fascism lies in resisting

00:41:47.420 the centralizing impulse of a federal government

00:41:50.020 that has over the course of the last year and a half declared on an emergency basis

00:41:53.260 that you all have to vax, that you don't have to pay your mortgage, you won't be evicted,

00:41:58.920 and that we can get rid of all of your student loan debt.

00:42:00.980 You can do all of that on the back of emergency declarations.

00:42:03.900 It's so historically ignorant, and he counts on our ignorance,

00:42:07.440 to suggest that it's fascist to oppose that.

00:42:09.460 When again, the very nature of fascism,

00:42:11.320 what people don't understand if you actually want to look at the history of Hitler,

00:42:13.840 centralized power in a dictatorship existed pre-Hitler in Germany.

00:42:17.380 Right.

00:42:17.460 By 1930, Heinrich Brüning, who was the chancellor of Germany at the time,

00:42:20.560 was operating under Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution,

00:42:23.040 which is an emergency declaration making the legislature essentially an adjunct

00:42:26.960 to all policymaking in the Reich.

00:42:30.140 And then it was just a matter of time until the really bad guy took over using that authority.

00:42:34.180 But that's been the pattern in the United States since Barack Obama said in 2014

00:42:37.360 he was just going to act with a pen and a phone if he didn't control Congress.

00:42:39.900 So if you're looking at threats to the American system and threats to democracy,

00:42:43.200 you might want to start with the doddering old fool in the White House

00:42:45.520 who can't string together two sentences out of his doddering stupid face hole.

00:42:48.380 Did you see the op-ed in the New York Times by the Harvard and Yale law professors

00:42:53.760 calling for the end of the Constitution for the simple reason that it got in the way

00:42:57.900 of their brilliant ideas?

00:42:59.120 And they said, we've got to get rid of judicial review

00:43:01.060 because we've got to be able to pass laws permitting abortion and controlling energy

00:43:05.860 without this stupid Constitution stuff getting in our way.

00:43:09.660 You know, that would be one thing if it was a 17-year-old saying,

00:43:13.840 I don't want Daddy telling me what I can't do.

00:43:15.620 But a Harvard and a Yale professor, that's genius.

00:43:18.360 I've got to say, my favorite thing about that is that they have controlled the direction

00:43:21.940 of the judiciary since like 1960, basically.

00:43:27.480 And they've like a string of uninterrupted successes from the left in the judiciary

00:43:31.460 for 50-odd years.

00:43:33.120 They lose one decision in Dobbs.

00:43:35.000 They're like, that's it.

00:43:36.000 It's on the judicial review.

00:43:37.080 Obliterate the institution.

00:43:38.140 It's over, guys.

00:43:38.780 Since when is the Constitution getting in their way anyway?

00:43:40.860 Right, exactly.

00:43:41.440 But it could, it could.

00:43:44.120 But you know, when Biden said that, and when Corrine Jean-Pierre at the White House

00:43:48.160 doubled down on it, that we're all fascists, my first instinct was, I would bet my life

00:43:54.260 savings that neither Corrine Jean-Pierre nor Joe Biden have, forget about red, they've

00:43:58.820 never even heard of the doctrine of fascism, the Mussolini essay that defines what fascism

00:44:03.880 is.

00:44:04.060 They would, I have, I studied history and Italian at college.

00:44:07.740 The one thing I think you have to study if you do both of those things is you have to

00:44:10.880 study what fascism is.

00:44:11.980 They've certainly never read that.

00:44:13.260 They've never read the early fascist manifesto by the founder of Futurism actually wrote it.

00:44:18.060 They've never heard it.

00:44:18.820 They don't have any idea what fascism means.

00:44:21.140 Fascism to them, and George Orwell made this point, fascism to the left means something

00:44:25.840 I don't like.

00:44:26.900 It's whatever I don't like.

00:44:28.280 And if I don't like it, then you are, forget Mussolini, you're Hitler and you're a Nazi

00:44:32.660 and we're going to treat you like we would treat Hitler and the Nazis, and you have absolutely

00:44:36.800 no right to speak in our public square.

00:44:38.400 That's all it means.

00:44:39.200 So they'll change the definition like they change the definition of every other word.

00:44:42.080 They change the definition of the word woman.

00:44:43.860 All it means is we are going to shut you up and we are going to push you out of politics.

00:44:48.640 And then they say, well, you know, what we want is unity.

00:44:50.840 Tomorrow we're going to get Joe Biden's big unity speech on the heels of probably half

00:44:53.480 the country is semi-fascist.

00:44:54.840 He literally says that.

00:44:55.900 He's going to speak to the soul of the country.

00:44:58.280 Well, first of all, I think his soul left his body quite a while ago, so it's going to

00:45:00.840 be amazing to watch.

00:45:01.600 He is proof positive that resurrection does exist because he's been dead for quite a

00:45:05.700 while and yet he's still ambulatory in some way.

00:45:07.780 They do want unity.

00:45:08.920 I actually don't think that that's...

00:45:10.920 Right, through purges.

00:45:12.040 Right.

00:45:12.340 Well, they want...

00:45:13.600 We have right now, ideologically, this vast canyon that separates us and it's not bridgeable.

00:45:19.560 There's no compromise area between it.

00:45:21.840 So the only way to have unity is for one side to either just throw itself into the canyon

00:45:26.560 and die or to join, you know, to join the other side.

00:45:30.200 So that's the kind of unity they want.

00:45:31.620 It's just we're obliterated by either assuming ourselves with them or just dying or whatever.

00:45:37.020 I had a really...

00:45:37.520 I had a sad thought yesterday because Gorbachev died, you know, the last leader of the Soviet

00:45:42.540 Union.

00:45:43.080 He was 91.

00:45:44.360 And I had this thought.

00:45:45.260 I said, Gorbachev, what can we learn from history?

00:45:47.000 I said, there's some parallels here.

00:45:48.380 You got a very old...

00:45:49.360 A dead guy.

00:45:50.060 So, okay.

00:45:50.420 Soviet Union.

00:45:51.040 I'm thinking of my own president right now.

00:45:52.460 Okay.

00:45:52.620 And it came to prominence in politics in the 70s.

00:45:55.760 Okay.

00:45:56.220 Palled around with actual communists.

00:45:57.820 Okay.

00:45:58.260 This is right now checking out Gorby and Biden.

00:46:00.880 They presided over the decline and fall of their nations and empires.

00:46:04.040 Okay.

00:46:04.560 I'm seeing a whole lot of parallels here, except for one.

00:46:08.860 Gorbachev tried to make his country freer and more transparent.

00:46:12.820 That was the only...

00:46:13.960 And he was sort of likable and friends with Ronald Reagan.

00:46:16.120 I thought, gosh, 30 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, how on earth do we, the

00:46:20.460 people who won the Cold War, how do we find ourselves in this really awful political...

00:46:25.320 Do we learn nothing from the Cold War?

00:46:27.000 It is really interesting that we defeat people and then take on their characteristics.

00:46:31.200 It's really interesting that we start out...

00:46:33.160 I mean, the Holocaust started with euthanasia.

00:46:35.940 You know, it started with killing off people who were crippled or mentally ill and all this

00:46:40.960 stuff.

00:46:41.120 And now we have actual headlines that say, you know, we've gotten rid of a syndrome through

00:46:45.520 abortion.

00:46:46.280 You go like, good job.

00:46:47.320 They're doing it in Canada.

00:46:48.140 They're pushing right now.

00:46:49.080 3.3% of deaths in Canada in 2021 were euthanasia, doctor-assisted suicide.

00:46:55.620 And there's a bill...

00:46:56.340 3.3%?

00:46:57.200 3.3% of all deaths.

00:46:58.900 By the way, it's going to spike way higher than that.

00:47:01.020 And right now in October, they're pushing for a bill that will legalize euthanasia.

00:47:05.460 Euthanasia.

00:47:05.920 It's assisted suicide.

00:47:07.360 For children.

00:47:08.420 And what children are they going to kill?

00:47:10.140 You know they're going to kill the weakest children, the ones with problems, the ones with

00:47:13.520 disabilities.

00:47:14.020 You just think...

00:47:15.220 And it's all going to be done with a smile, happy, happy...

00:47:18.300 And they're suggesting it too.

00:47:19.500 There was a veteran that called the VA and they suggested to him, oh, have you thought

00:47:24.700 about euthanasia?

00:47:26.000 They're actually promoting it as an option if you're feeling down.

00:47:30.160 I mean, this is the thing that I think people forget.

00:47:33.080 And this was Jonah Goldberg's point in liberal fascism, which is that nobody actually shows

00:47:36.860 up at the front door making the case for fascism wearing the shiny boots.

00:47:40.200 The shiny boots come later.

00:47:41.060 I mean, it starts with all of the happy promises and all the wonderful things we can do with

00:47:44.540 you.

00:47:44.680 We can make your life easier.

00:47:45.660 If you just get rid of these moral standards here and these moral standards there, your

00:47:48.080 life becomes significantly more convenient.

00:47:49.780 If you don't have to listen to that guy on the other side of the aisle, your life is

00:47:52.160 just going to be richer and better.

00:47:53.860 And all this stuff is messy.

00:47:55.660 It makes it a lot less messy if you just give us the power to do whatever we want.

00:47:58.920 I'm going to push back on you just slightly.

00:48:00.580 I don't think it's if you give up this moral standard and that moral standard.

00:48:03.580 I think it's if you accept this moral standard, it always comes in the guise of a higher morality.

00:48:10.500 It's actually wrong of you to want what you want that veteran to suffer.

00:48:14.820 You want children born with Down syndrome to have to live?

00:48:19.260 Imagine how hard it is for them to be alive.

00:48:23.360 And their families to take care of it.

00:48:24.720 And their families to take care of it.

00:48:25.520 They frame all of this in a way that makes it seem like a virtuous thing.

00:48:30.220 You're going to let Ben Shapiro, who disagrees with us, you're going to let him speak and

00:48:34.900 cause emotional distress.

00:48:35.920 Or you're going to let kids with gender dysphoria kill themselves.

00:48:38.360 Yeah, you just want to erase trans people.

00:48:41.420 But it always comes back to the idea.

00:48:43.580 I think you're right, though.

00:48:44.820 It comes back to the idea of having a hierarchy of values.

00:48:48.020 What do you mean that a homosexual marriage isn't the same thing as a straight marriage?

00:48:52.960 What do you mean when you say being fat is less attractive than being fit?

00:48:57.740 What are you talking about, that you should have some kind of value system where you value

00:49:02.580 things, natural things, more than others?

00:49:05.360 And I think that is actually an elimination of moral difference.

00:49:08.680 And I actually do think it comes out of the idea that we can all get together, we can all

00:49:14.640 have our own religions, and they're all going to be equal.

00:49:18.100 That's not, you know, it's one thing to be religiously tolerant, which, of course, I'm

00:49:20.920 for.

00:49:21.560 But it's another thing to say that no religion is better than any other, which is absurd.

00:49:25.520 It's just absurd.

00:49:26.220 And, you know, and people actually make the argument, it's really wild, how can you say

00:49:30.680 that one religion is true when there are so many religions?

00:49:34.060 It's like, easy.

00:49:34.900 One is true, and the others aren't, you know?

00:49:38.080 There's so many answers to the gap problem.

00:49:40.420 How can only one be true?

00:49:41.620 Exactly, exactly.

00:49:42.660 You know, so I think there is this kind of elimination of values, and it's put in terms

00:49:46.680 of the fact that if you hold to values, people suffer, which is true.

00:49:50.320 I mean, I think it's a very unpleasant thing to be fat.

00:49:53.480 I think that people who feel a tremendous amount of shame, they blame the shame on us, but it's

00:49:57.700 there to begin with, and it is.

00:49:59.880 But it's incredibly unhealthy, and incredibly shameful, and shaming, self-shaming, and an

00:50:05.300 incredibly bad way to live.

00:50:07.120 But just to say it is what makes you an evil person.

00:50:09.700 To say that there's a hierarchy of values is what makes you an evil person.

00:50:12.880 Well, I think that one of the things that they've done, and I'm thinking this through

00:50:15.360 in real time, is they've made the core of human behavior the emotion you feel in response

00:50:21.420 to the human behavior.

00:50:22.320 That's the thing that we're supposed to focus in on.

00:50:24.240 And so that means that the behavior is really secondary.

00:50:25.940 So if you feel pain because you're overweight, and then it really doesn't matter whether

00:50:30.560 you're overweight because you choose not to stop eating, or whether you're overweight

00:50:33.620 because you have an actual genetic anomaly that makes you fat.

00:50:36.420 The pain is the same.

00:50:37.500 And so therefore, we cannot tell people that they should exercise.

00:50:40.760 Because if we do that, well, you're ignoring the pain.

00:50:43.560 And so the core is always the emotional response.

00:50:46.140 It's not the behavior that leads to the emotional response.

00:50:48.380 And so that's just the difference in kind between how I think religious people who see

00:50:51.980 cause and effect in the world, and people who don't believe in cause and effect, and

00:50:54.680 only care about the emotional state in which you find yourself.

00:50:58.220 That's just two different ways of viewing the world.

00:51:00.560 And if all you're focused in on is the emotional state of people at all times, regardless of the

00:51:04.620 behavior that leads to the emotional state, number one, you're depriving people of their

00:51:07.120 agency.

00:51:07.440 Because the truth is that you can, in fact, in many cases, control your emotional state.

00:51:11.540 That's what it's called to become an adult.

00:51:13.040 I mean, you've...

00:51:13.880 Discipline, patience, you know.

00:51:15.380 I mean, yes.

00:51:15.960 I mean, looking at...

00:51:17.460 So the Bible very rarely, the Old Testament, very rarely commands emotion, right?

00:51:21.660 It commands action.

00:51:22.660 But there are certain times where the Bible literally commands emotion.

00:51:24.700 It says that you have to love God with all of your heart and all of your soul and all

00:51:27.200 of your means, right?

00:51:27.980 So what does it mean when God says, I want you to love?

00:51:31.700 Or when God says, I want you to love your neighbor as your child?

00:51:33.960 What is that actually supposed to mean?

00:51:35.500 How can you command somebody else to feel something?

00:51:37.840 So the left says, you can't.

00:51:38.860 There's no way.

00:51:39.440 Because you can't change your emotional state.

00:51:40.780 Nothing you do can change your emotional state.

00:51:42.880 And what religion typically teaches is, fake it until you make it, essentially.

00:51:47.540 Treat other people as you would wish to be treated, and you will end up loving your neighbor

00:51:50.760 as yourself.

00:51:51.560 That's the basic idea.

00:51:52.260 It's an absolute certainty that if you are sitting in a movie theater watching a scary movie

00:51:56.880 and you become afraid, if you turn on the light and take your eyes off of the screen, your

00:52:02.960 fear will mitigate.

00:52:05.620 Because emotions are controlled by externalities.

00:52:08.200 It doesn't mean that every emotion, this is this whole cause and effect, and we've talked

00:52:12.420 about it on this show before, that some things can start in the physical and then infect the

00:52:16.980 spiritual, and some things can start in the spiritual and then manifest in the physical.

00:52:20.360 Like, that door swings both ways.

00:52:22.380 For sure.

00:52:22.780 So you can have fear that isn't caused by an externality, certainly.

00:52:27.440 But in many, many, many instances, you can have, your fear can be caused by the externality.

00:52:31.900 And you can have irrational feelings.

00:52:33.480 I mean, I think.

00:52:34.140 Of course you can.

00:52:34.560 Of course you observe.

00:52:35.980 I think you can.

00:52:37.000 Fear at a scary movie is actually an irrational.

00:52:38.900 Of course it is.

00:52:39.640 An irrational feeling.

00:52:39.980 You volunteered, and that's what you're there for.

00:52:42.100 That's right.

00:52:42.460 But it's also true that, like, as you get, I think, a little wiser, you start to look at

00:52:47.060 your life and think, like, well, I feel this way, but that's not really the state.

00:52:50.800 The entire basis of the only area of psychology that has actually been proved over time to

00:52:54.420 be effective, cognitive behavioral therapy.

00:52:55.940 Yes, yes.

00:52:56.400 Cognitive behavioral therapy is about the idea that you have an emotional response to a stimulus,

00:52:59.940 and maybe that's an irrational and unreasonable response to the stimulus, and you need to

00:53:03.480 change the way that you're responding to the stimulus.

00:53:06.040 That idea in itself is offensive to the left.

00:53:08.200 And so what that means, again, because they focus in on the emotional state, this is how

00:53:11.500 you end up with, the right will say things like, wait, you took out a debt, and now you're

00:53:14.660 pissed off because you can't pay back your college debt.

00:53:16.940 That's your fault.

00:53:18.120 You shouldn't have taken out a college debt that you couldn't pay, and maybe somebody

00:53:21.760 was predatory, and that person should be punished.

00:53:23.540 But if you take out a debt and you can't pay the debt, that's not my fault.

00:53:26.340 That's not somebody else's fault.

00:53:27.140 By the way, they keep saying that the student loans are predatory, but they offer absolutely

00:53:30.220 no solutions for how to get rid of them.

00:53:32.200 Right.

00:53:32.440 Only forgive them and keep the system.

00:53:34.820 On the emotion thing, though, the piece that we're missing, because, yeah, they say emotion

00:53:39.800 matters the most.

00:53:40.840 That takes primacy.

00:53:42.340 Obviously, if they applied that across the board, it would still be bad, but it wouldn't

00:53:46.860 be nearly as bad as the actual situation, which is that what they're really saying is

00:53:51.760 that emotions have primacy for some people, but then if you're in the out group, your emotions

00:53:58.420 don't matter at all.

00:53:59.500 They don't give a damn how you feel.

00:54:01.520 You could be in the utter depths of despair, and it doesn't matter.

00:54:05.100 That's why I ask this question all the time about the women's locker room debate, and they

00:54:08.840 tell us, well, they're a trans person, how are they going to feel if they're not allowed

00:54:11.840 in the women's locker room?

00:54:13.440 And then usually the response from the right is about, well, what about safety?

00:54:16.220 What about this?

00:54:16.920 I always respond, well, what about the emotions of the women?

00:54:19.080 What about how they feel?

00:54:20.340 And what you find is that, oh, their emotions don't matter at all.

00:54:22.340 Who cares about them?

00:54:23.080 They just have a phobia.

00:54:24.900 Right.

00:54:25.280 Exactly.

00:54:25.860 Which makes you think that maybe in the end, it's all just, as always, a power game for

00:54:29.140 the left.

00:54:29.480 Yeah, of course.

00:54:29.780 That the emotional veneer is all just, but the jackboot is behind the smiley face, right?

00:54:35.800 The smiley face is the pitch.

00:54:37.100 The jackboot is what's really important.

00:54:38.020 We're almost, we're making it, we almost sometimes make it, make it sound like they

00:54:41.280 have an overabundance of empathy.

00:54:43.640 Which is what they want us to think, yeah.

00:54:45.420 Right, but that's, that's not it at all.

00:54:47.100 I think they don't care, this is not empathy, this is, this is, I think, power.

00:54:49.840 And the power game obscures the fact that they are erasing truths, central truths about

00:54:55.200 human nature that have been handed down to us, you know, through long centuries of wisdom.

00:55:00.500 You know, what we're really talking about is we're talking about the flesh and the spirit.

00:55:03.660 You know, you're talking about the fact that your flesh feels things that your spirit

00:55:06.760 knows are false, you know, your flesh feels envy.

00:55:09.220 And then you sit and think about it and think, well, do I really want my friend to fail?

00:55:12.100 No, I actually want my friend to succeed.

00:55:14.280 My flesh maybe has this kind of, you know, instant response.

00:55:17.740 Do I really want to sleep with that woman and destroy my family?

00:55:20.300 Actually, no, I actually don't.

00:55:21.860 But my flesh feels that.

00:55:22.780 And this is where the cultural echo chamber really, that you're talking about, really

00:55:25.400 matters so unbelievably much.

00:55:26.620 Because what they do is a path to unhappiness.

00:55:29.700 It is a path to misery for millions and millions of people.

00:55:33.020 I cut a video this week about Demi Lovato's new album.

00:55:35.440 And, you know, this is not my area of expertise.

00:55:37.780 I'm not a Demi Lovato fanatic.

00:55:39.080 I don't listen to this kind of music.

00:55:40.880 As I said on the show, it's not that I'm a cultural snob.

00:55:44.020 It's just I don't like shit.

00:55:45.160 But the real problem is that if you actually listen to her album, it's actually quite sad.

00:55:50.900 I actually feel terrible for this person, like really feel terrible for this person.

00:55:54.220 This is a person who alleges that she was raped at the age of 15 when she was on a set.

00:55:57.660 Her parents were divorced when she was two.

00:55:59.400 She was put on TV at the age of 10.

00:56:01.480 She was being dated when she was 17 by a man of 29.

00:56:04.680 And she was in rehab by the time she was 17 years old.

00:56:07.580 Hey, this is a person who has led an absolutely misery-ridden life.

00:56:10.900 And her entire new album, which is titled, unsurprisingly, Holy F, right?

00:56:15.800 And the cover is a picture of her in bondage gear on a cross-shaped couch, right?

00:56:20.840 It's her just taking Madonna's routine.

00:56:23.020 But the whole idea of the album, she sings about being victimized when she's 17.

00:56:27.180 She has a whole song about her being 17, how terrible that felt.

00:56:30.060 And she has these songs about how it's terrible that she's a drug addict and she's had to fight that.

00:56:33.800 And all these things.

00:56:34.480 But the entire album is geared at the evils of traditional morality.

00:56:38.720 The one thing that she's never actually tried or been trained in or actually involved herself in.

00:56:43.600 To the plaudits of the media.

00:56:45.380 And so the point that I was making is that what the media do, they churn out misery.

00:56:49.520 And then in order to alleviate your misery, they reward you for becoming a messenger of the misery.

00:56:54.800 You attack the system you've never actually tried as the thing that's held you back.

00:56:58.440 And the thing that actually has held you back, if you champion it, we will reward you.

00:57:01.680 This is a form of porn that the New York Times op-ed page has now brought to absolute perfection.

00:57:06.880 Whereas it's usually a woman, but sometimes a man, but it says,

00:57:10.160 my life has been an absolute misery.

00:57:12.060 And I defend to the death my right to have been this miserable.

00:57:16.100 I mean, you know, and we see it, our pal, Bridget Phetasy, who wrote a very touching piece about,

00:57:22.780 she was sorry for being a slut.

00:57:24.220 But even in that piece, she says, I'm not saying we should go back to Victorian era or the 1950s.

00:57:30.440 I would just tell my younger self, if you cherish yourself, then someone will cherish you.

00:57:34.660 I thought, well, that's what a woman in the 1950s would have told her daughter to, you know.

00:57:37.940 So maybe they were just right.

00:57:39.360 This is the power of practice, though.

00:57:41.140 And it's why I think we've got to be a little careful about this neutral language.

00:57:45.520 Because some things can't be neutral, you know.

00:57:48.400 If you call the, the great example is you call the girl she or you call the girl he.

00:57:53.400 And that is not neutral.

00:57:55.760 There's no neutral ground.

00:57:56.620 You're making a moral claim there.

00:57:58.240 And there's this idea, it's lex irandi, lex credendi.

00:58:01.660 The way that we worship, the way that we, and really.

00:58:04.900 You're French.

00:58:05.460 I know, you know, it's classic Arabic.

00:58:07.500 So the way that we worship affects the way that we believe.

00:58:09.960 And so these people who have been just trained in these rituals of leftism, liberalism, whatever you want to call it.

00:58:16.380 They're trained in it.

00:58:17.180 They know that it's making them miserable.

00:58:18.880 The practices that have defined their lives have ruined their lives.

00:58:21.900 They'll even admit it in a way in the paper.

00:58:24.440 But they can't change the belief.

00:58:26.220 That is the power because we have, we are bodies in many ways.

00:58:30.620 And so the things that we do every single day, our behaviors every day, are going to affect the way that we believe.

00:58:36.000 It's why we don't always succeed when we make total, we rarely succeed actually, when we make totally rational arguments for why our way is better than their way.

00:58:44.820 It doesn't matter.

00:58:45.360 They've got to do it.

00:58:46.260 We also don't realize the tribal nature of some of this stuff.

00:58:49.020 There's, there's one, my favorite op-ed writer right now is this woman in the Times named Michelle, Michelle Goldberg.

00:58:54.080 Because Michelle Goldberg is constantly discovering that everything she believes is wrong.

00:58:58.660 And then by the end of the column saying, oh, but it's all true, you know.

00:59:01.700 So she suddenly finds out that like maybe, maybe the sexual revolution wasn't such a good thing.

00:59:06.380 But yeah, I'm not saying, I'm not saying, yeah, but it was great.

00:59:08.960 You shouldn't stop.

00:59:09.540 You know, the other day she wrote my favorite, one of my favorite of her columns, which is art is now boring.

00:59:15.420 That's absolutely true.

00:59:16.240 We've hit an absolute low in the culture.

00:59:18.360 In my lifetime, this is the lowest the culture has been because of woke, because their values don't, aren't conducive to art, because they're not conducive to life.

00:59:25.780 But she starts quoting Karl Marx.

00:59:27.880 You know, this is all explained.

00:59:29.140 And I thought like, yeah, okay, I know the rest of this column.

00:59:31.840 Oh yeah, no, there's my favorite recent piece in the New York Times, as long as we're doing favorite recent pieces in the New York Times.

00:59:36.600 There's a woman who wrote this whole article about, I'm in a progressive marriage.

00:59:40.160 Yes.

00:59:40.420 It was an open marriage.

00:59:41.680 And I was miserable.

00:59:42.880 Yes.

00:59:43.220 I was just miserable.

00:59:44.040 It was the worst marriage ever.

00:59:45.320 But that just demonstrates that progressive marriage is actually a wonderful, wonderful thing.

00:59:49.400 And we need to get past the morality of the past.

00:59:51.440 It was great.

00:59:51.680 And there's so much of this on the left.

00:59:54.680 And that's why there's a study today that came out.

00:59:57.040 And it's a study that every sentient human being knew was going to be true, which is that religious people have better sex.

01:00:02.580 Right?

01:00:02.980 There's a study that says religious people have better sex, particularly women, having a more meaningful sexual life when they are in a long-term relationship with a person who shares their values.

01:00:12.980 Which is the least shocking piece of news that has ever been broken upon the American people.

01:00:17.600 Ever.

01:00:18.220 Ever.

01:00:18.460 And it held true for men as well.

01:00:20.060 Religious men tend to have better sex because it is in the context of a relationship that is actually fulfilling.

01:00:25.180 And it turns out married people actually have a fair bit of sex because they actually know the person they're having sex with.

01:00:29.100 They do it fairly regularly, as it turns out.

01:00:31.340 You don't have to go shopping for it.

01:00:33.180 Exactly.

01:00:33.580 And so this entire study is written in the realm of almost like Jeff Corwin, like in Australia, and he's going around in the outback.

01:00:42.040 Like, why would?

01:00:44.120 It's Steve Irwin.

01:00:45.200 He's like, crikey.

01:00:46.920 Crikey, what?

01:00:48.120 These people.

01:00:50.000 Bunnies.

01:00:50.640 I can't believe it.

01:00:51.740 And you're like, well, I mean, this makes perfect sense.

01:00:55.520 Why do you think, even if you're not a religious person, let's assume that you have a naturalistic explanation for religion.

01:01:00.620 Okay, then why do you think these religious rituals began in the first place?

01:01:04.260 And the answer is they're outgrowths of evolutionary biology, even if you're an atheist.

01:01:08.060 Because human beings are naturally driven toward a life of mating.

01:01:11.960 Women are naturally driven toward mating with people who are very specific so they can propagate their line with not the schmo down the block.

01:01:18.960 And men tend to be driven toward polygamy.

01:01:21.660 But if they are forced by circumstance, namely by women, into monogamy, they tend to lead healthier sex lives than people who are just outscrewing whatever is available.

01:01:31.420 Yeah, but that's part of the trade-off.

01:01:33.740 Right.

01:01:34.120 This is right.

01:01:35.060 And so, but the fact that we keep, there's so many, Christine Emba at the Washington Post, she keeps writing pieces about like, well, you know, it seems like the consent values that we've been promoting my entire lifetime, they're not sufficient.

01:01:45.960 There are so many women who are consenting and then they regret and is really consent enough.

01:01:49.340 It's like, where have you been?

01:01:50.960 Where have you been?

01:01:51.740 Can I recommend this thing?

01:01:52.640 It rhymes with marriage.

01:01:54.520 We've had it for literally forever.

01:01:57.000 And it's just.

01:01:58.100 I don't want to tell a tale out of school, but my friends and I, some male friends and I back in my wayward youth, we were discussing this one day and we had this kind of epiphany.

01:02:06.300 We said, you know, you know, fellas, I think, I just thought about this the other day.

01:02:10.220 I think sex actually is better with people that you know.

01:02:15.400 And furthermore, it's even better with people that you like.

01:02:19.740 And we're sitting there like, wow.

01:02:20.780 And I'm not, I'm being somewhat, you know, hyperbolic here, but those are the exact words we said.

01:02:25.040 And we thought about that like an actual epiphany.

01:02:27.620 And then we thought, you know, maybe every person ever throughout history knew this except for us.

01:02:34.580 This is the battle.

01:02:35.940 This was the hinge of my life.

01:02:36.680 This was the hinge of my life.

01:02:37.760 I was walking down the street one day and I said, you know what?

01:02:39.680 I'm not sleeping with women I don't like anymore.

01:02:41.500 I'm not going to pretend to like women I don't like.

01:02:43.120 Within six months, I met the woman who became my wife.

01:02:45.720 Within six, first of all, within six months, I was having the greatest dating experiences of my life.

01:02:49.720 Because I just thought, I'm not going out with women I don't like.

01:02:52.360 You know, yeah.

01:02:52.780 And then within six months, I met the woman.

01:02:54.860 It's not just that you like the person too.

01:02:56.440 It's also, you're having sex with someone and you can embrace the totality of the act and all of its consequences.

01:03:03.760 And see those things not as this thing that must be feared, but as a great blessing.

01:03:09.080 So that's another part that allows us to enjoy it quite a bit more.

01:03:12.180 This is the thing about the, you mentioned the flesh and the spirit a little bit ago.

01:03:15.300 You mentioned, you know, people have, certain people have genetic predispositions towards being overweight

01:03:21.060 and other people have eating disorders and et cetera, et cetera.

01:03:24.220 All of this is sort of one thing, which is that in the battle between flesh and spirit,

01:03:29.660 you're being fed two ideas all the time.

01:03:33.260 And the one idea is always a lie.

01:03:37.960 And so it's like the fear of your spirit is a lie and the promise of joy of the flesh is a lie.

01:03:45.520 And so I've talked to, because we obviously, we've never had an obese society before until right now.

01:03:50.980 Like you look, you look at pictures from the beach in 1968, no one was overweight.

01:03:56.280 And when I mean not overweight, people who we think of as not overweight now would have been considered overweight then.

01:04:02.480 They didn't have seed oils.

01:04:03.620 That's why.

01:04:04.040 That's right.

01:04:04.480 It's not even, it's not even that they were.

01:04:06.600 Side note, by the way, have you noticed that the sizes are changing?

01:04:09.160 I'm talking about like clothing sizes.

01:04:10.280 Oh yeah.

01:04:10.840 They're changing.

01:04:11.400 Like it's bizarre over the course of my lifetime.

01:04:12.920 Okay, like I'm 5'9 and I weigh about 160, which puts me normally in the medium category.

01:04:17.800 And now I'm having to wear smalls because the mediums are for giants.

01:04:20.400 Right, they're for giants.

01:04:21.840 I thought I was losing weight.

01:04:24.280 This is definitely happening.

01:04:25.400 But the point I'm making is that I've had to have conversations with people about the fact that almost no one is overweight because of hormones and genetics.

01:04:35.660 And they don't believe you.

01:04:37.360 You're just wrong.

01:04:38.820 I've had to have conversations with people who I have true affection for about the fact that most of the mental illness that we're dealing with is inflicted, not biological.

01:04:49.980 And my evidence of it is it's brand new.

01:04:52.320 It's never existed before.

01:04:55.080 All of this is because on one hand.

01:04:57.000 It doesn't exist in most places right now, by the way.

01:04:58.000 Not terribly.

01:04:58.600 Even right now, most people aren't overweight in the world.

01:05:00.900 Even right now, most people in the world don't have mental illnesses, among other things.

01:05:04.420 If you believe the flesh, then you think.

01:05:08.260 So I did hardcore keto, right, for a while.

01:05:11.160 And I've never felt better.

01:05:13.000 I've never been in better shape.

01:05:15.920 It requires some discipline.

01:05:17.440 It requires routines.

01:05:18.380 That's a big part of how you accomplish it.

01:05:19.880 We moved to Nashville.

01:05:21.580 All of my routines are broken.

01:05:23.420 All of my discipline falls apart.

01:05:25.000 All the places where I knew how to get the food that would still taste good.

01:05:28.100 You know, like, you've sort of solved it.

01:05:29.780 All that goes away.

01:05:30.600 And there are biscuits literally everywhere.

01:05:32.700 Under this chair right now, there are biscuits.

01:05:35.060 And I've gained 12 pounds.

01:05:39.220 I feel worse.

01:05:41.020 Every few days, I start trying to go back to the thing that I know made me feel better.

01:05:45.280 And every few days, I'm tempted by the things that make me feel worse.

01:05:48.180 And in the moment, the things that make me feel worse come with the promise of joy.

01:05:54.000 The milkshake promises to make me feel better.

01:05:57.020 The funny thing is it makes me feel worse immediately.

01:05:59.620 I don't just feel like guilt.

01:06:01.080 I actually feel bad from the sugar, bad from the dairy.

01:06:04.420 And nevertheless, that temptation is real.

01:06:06.320 This is every single thing that we deal with in life.

01:06:09.200 Sex with a waitress is always better than sex with your wife.

01:06:12.700 Except that sex with your wife is always better than sex with the waitress.

01:06:16.900 It's not that one thing is true and the other is false.

01:06:19.260 It's that both things possess in themselves a kind of truth.

01:06:23.460 But only one of them is true, is fundamentally true, right?

01:06:26.380 It's almost as if there's a conscious power trying to destroy us.

01:06:29.920 With personality.

01:06:31.060 Yeah, I don't know.

01:06:31.780 You know, people write into my show constantly.

01:06:33.640 I would say this is the most frequent question I get on the show.

01:06:36.200 It's from young men.

01:06:36.740 Why do you have a show?

01:06:38.120 Michael, why is Ben still permitting?

01:06:40.720 Signed, Ben.

01:06:42.760 Ben, why do you let him into all access?

01:06:44.880 The question I get more than any other is from young men who say,

01:06:48.640 I'm addicted to porn.

01:06:49.600 Yes, I get that all the time.

01:06:50.840 I get it constantly, right?

01:06:52.120 I get this one too, actually.

01:06:53.400 The thing, this is the biggest one because now we have these portals to hell in our pockets

01:06:57.280 and it's brand new really of the last 20 years.

01:06:59.760 But it really can be applied to any addiction or any kind of vice or any temptation.

01:07:04.800 And they'll write in and near desperation, they'll write in and say,

01:07:08.600 is there any way to get better?

01:07:10.480 Is there any way to recover some lost innocence?

01:07:13.700 That was a question last week.

01:07:15.140 Is there any way to, and the answer is,

01:07:17.480 if you've ever disciplined yourself or recovered from any sort of addiction or anything,

01:07:21.060 you'll know.

01:07:22.000 The answer is, yes, eventually.

01:07:25.920 You actually can get better.

01:07:27.840 The temptation can go away a little bit.

01:07:30.720 And it's because virtue and vice are habits.

01:07:33.440 They're not just, we're in the eternal present, so we want instant gratification.

01:07:37.100 That's not how it works.

01:07:38.000 When you have routine, when you have habits in virtue,

01:07:41.760 then the temptation gets to be a little less to vice and it's easier to do the virtue.

01:07:44.980 And then you go back to the biscuits and then all of a sudden it's harder to go back to the keto

01:07:49.220 and it's easier to get the biscuits.

01:07:50.700 In order to actually do this sort of stuff,

01:07:52.320 you have to have a realistic assessment of your own limitations.

01:07:54.960 And this is something that society actively mocks.

01:07:57.360 If you say, for example, like Mike Pence,

01:08:00.520 you know what, I'm not going to have dinner with a woman who's not my wife

01:08:03.220 in a room with a closed door.

01:08:04.600 You are a bigot.

01:08:06.120 You are a ridiculous person because what?

01:08:07.540 Do you think you're just going to have sex with her?

01:08:08.940 What do you think?

01:08:09.320 You're just going to cheat on your wife just like that?

01:08:11.020 Is that really what you think that it's just so you mock the notion that you have to set up

01:08:15.180 prophylactic rules, which is what most of life is,

01:08:17.660 setting up prophylactic rules around the innate fallen nature of yourself.

01:08:21.920 And this is true of literally everything.

01:08:24.180 You have to set up these prophylactic rules around the things that you care about

01:08:28.020 so that you never come within 100 yards of actually violating the thing that you care about.

01:08:32.960 And society mocks this.

01:08:34.260 There's a section of the Talmud that's actually quite wonderful about,

01:08:37.260 essentially what I think is pornography addiction, really,

01:08:39.120 where it's talking about, it says it's a sin for you to walk near a river

01:08:44.240 and see women bathing, or it's a sin where to walk near a river where women are bathing

01:08:49.780 and avert your eyes.

01:08:50.960 And so it's like, well, why is it a sin to avert your eyes?

01:08:53.280 It's not.

01:08:53.740 It's a sin that you went near the river in the first place.

01:08:55.620 Because you're putting yourself in a position of temptation.

01:08:57.960 All of society is designed.

01:09:00.320 They keep saying this over and over.

01:09:01.720 It's a mantra of the left.

01:09:03.340 Well, I mean, if you can't resist the temptation, was it really worth resisting?

01:09:07.040 What kind of person?

01:09:07.520 Are you really so weak that you can't resist the temptation?

01:09:10.060 Yes.

01:09:10.860 Yes, I am, in many cases.

01:09:12.820 And so we used to have a society constructed around the idea that you had to create all

01:09:17.400 of these fences in order to prevent a lot of people from falling into the chasm.

01:09:21.460 And then we were like, well, you know what?

01:09:23.120 It's not really going to change your life if we get rid of those fences.

01:09:25.440 A lot of people start falling into the well.

01:09:27.060 I mean, it's not a shock.

01:09:27.700 You also have to...

01:09:28.700 The occasion of sin is one of the great pieces of advice, like ever.

01:09:31.960 When I get this question about pornography addiction, the first thing I say is,

01:09:35.200 well, if you want to beat the pornography addiction, stop calling it an addiction.

01:09:38.840 Because I think that word in and of itself, there might be a sense in which it's true,

01:09:43.960 but what that has come to mean is a disease.

01:09:47.140 And when we say disease, we mean something you don't have any control over.

01:09:50.060 So you need someone else to come in.

01:09:52.620 And you're basically powerless to stop it.

01:09:54.340 It's not an addiction.

01:09:55.980 It's a compulsion.

01:09:57.720 It's a habit.

01:09:58.220 I mean, that's what it is.

01:09:59.100 It's a bad habit.

01:10:00.040 And habits have a lot of power over you.

01:10:01.480 But you still have your free will.

01:10:03.760 You're able to make a choice.

01:10:05.000 And so every time you look at the pornography, you are making a choice to do it.

01:10:08.920 And I think when you think of it like an addiction, then it gives you an out.

01:10:12.320 It's sort of like, well, it's not my choice.

01:10:13.560 It's the addiction.

01:10:14.440 But isn't that true with a drink?

01:10:15.660 You're one step down, though, because it is an addiction, but an addiction is not a disease.

01:10:20.780 I mean, if you could give up cancer, you would.

01:10:23.240 That's what a disease looks like.

01:10:24.560 For Lent.

01:10:25.020 Yeah, exactly.

01:10:27.260 But you can beat it.

01:10:28.920 I mean, the only thing I've ever been actually addicted to is cigarettes.

01:10:31.800 And you beat it.

01:10:32.500 You just beat it.

01:10:33.180 And you curl up in a ball, and it's awful.

01:10:35.420 It is an awful experience.

01:10:36.300 I do want to say, like, the apostles clear the things I don't want to do.

01:10:39.860 I do things I want to do.

01:10:41.000 I scarcely ever do.

01:10:41.700 I don't think it's as simple as saying that everyone can simply choose to overcome any expression of sin.

01:10:48.300 That's not true.

01:10:49.100 We had a society with more condoms.

01:10:52.240 I didn't understand exactly what you were saying before, but in the past, we had a society.

01:10:55.840 There were condoms everywhere.

01:10:56.960 Biscuits on the condoms.

01:10:58.220 I don't know.

01:10:59.080 And we had a society that had a lot of rules meant to prevent the occasion of sin.

01:11:03.280 And it was still a sinful society.

01:11:05.360 But in many ways, not all, but in many ways, it was a better behaved society.

01:11:09.760 And so it's challenging when you talk about these issues to make the distinction between the absolute nature of righteousness,

01:11:16.520 the absolute nature of virtue, and the sort of practical realities of life on earth.

01:11:22.680 When you say to a person that they can overcome, that they can kick cigarettes, that is absolutely true.

01:11:30.460 And sometimes telling them that is actually encouraging and helps them kind of realize that they're not just victims of circumstance.

01:11:36.680 Sometimes I think it can also be demoralizing to people because it almost obscures the other reality, which is that sin is very powerful, that sin can't be done away with.

01:11:49.220 I think that that's why the genius of beating addiction, I was off cigarettes for five years, was in Amsterdam, where everybody was smoking on a book tour.

01:11:59.580 And I thought, well, one cigarette.

01:12:00.680 I was addicted like that.

01:12:01.980 I had to do it all over again.

01:12:04.080 But that's the thing.

01:12:04.920 You know, it's not every day is a day.

01:12:06.540 So, like, if you get off it the next day, you're off it again, you know, and that's what you have to do.

01:12:10.660 Sin is always present.

01:12:11.860 The flesh is always present.

01:12:13.500 These things are incredibly powerful.

01:12:15.180 It's very challenging.

01:12:16.260 The problem, when I was a kid, and cartoons actually taught you things.

01:12:19.980 Yeah.

01:12:20.780 They still teach you things.

01:12:22.960 But you mean good things.

01:12:23.980 The common meme in cartoons was that a person would have a decision to make, and a little angel would appear on one shoulder, and a little devil would appear on the other shoulder.

01:12:32.700 And this one would try to make them be bad, and this one would try to make them be good.

01:12:35.300 But the problem as you become adult is that you realize there is an angel on one shoulder, and there is a devil on the other.

01:12:42.460 And they're both you, and they sound exactly the same.

01:12:45.060 And that is one of the hardest things about life.

01:12:47.800 And they both have your voice.

01:12:48.820 They both have your voice.

01:12:50.160 Yeah, the devil speaks to you in your own voice.

01:12:52.660 That was Soltzman.

01:12:53.400 Soltzman, this is a great line, that the line between good and evil runs through the human heart.

01:12:57.940 You know, and it's not actually about political systems.

01:13:00.720 It's not actually about where you live or who you are.

01:13:02.560 It's right there, you know, and that's the battle you're in.

01:13:05.300 And, you know, the thing about it is I think Christians particularly have been very bad about depicting this as some kind of grim struggle.

01:13:13.520 But it's actually a joyful struggle.

01:13:14.840 It is.

01:13:15.060 It's actually a struggle to get to your joy.

01:13:17.640 And what you were saying before about the lies of the flesh and the truth of the Spirit is actually just siding with joy.

01:13:24.960 You know, it is.

01:13:26.000 And it's a funny thing because in the end, you know, joy takes a little bit longer to get to.

01:13:30.340 You know, it's like the pleasure, the bliss of sin is there.

01:13:34.460 I mean, it's like there's no question about this.

01:13:36.700 I mean, people yelled at me in another kingdom for writing a scene about how great sex was when you lied to a woman that she was going to get a part in your movie and then slept with her.

01:13:44.280 And it was great.

01:13:45.160 And they yelled out, that's pornographic.

01:13:46.760 I said, no, no, that's the problem.

01:13:49.300 It is great.

01:13:50.380 You know, it's just that the joy, which is a deeper emotion, a much more global emotion, something that actually fills your whole life, takes longer to get to.

01:13:57.980 But there's also, this is why Jordan Peterson is so popular.

01:14:02.040 Oh, he's Jordan now?

01:14:03.040 He's Jordan.

01:14:03.620 You know, Jordan.

01:14:04.680 Jordan.

01:14:05.360 This is why.

01:14:05.960 One, it's because of the accent.

01:14:07.420 And two, it's because he talks about dragons.

01:14:10.520 And it's the same reason that the Latin mass is exploding in the United States, especially among young men.

01:14:14.700 And it's exactly the same reason, because this lame, super lib thing that we've heard for 50 years, like, hey, man, you know, your spirituality, it's all just about peace, man, you know.

01:14:25.880 And all it is is just kind of acoustic guitars.

01:14:28.280 No, it's about, like, there are actual dragons trying to eat me all around me right now.

01:14:33.200 And I just want to just slay that dragon in pursuit of something greater, because the consequence of the spiritual combat that we're all in is not just that we're suffering a lot.

01:14:43.300 It's that there's a prize, you know.

01:14:44.960 There's something actually worth getting out of it.

01:14:47.420 That's much more motivating than just, you know, eh.

01:14:51.240 I will say that the best thing about Jordan Peterson is listening to Knowles and my son Spencer do imitations of him.

01:14:57.500 We would never do anything like that, Drew.

01:14:59.560 And you better be sorry that you ever suggested we would.

01:15:03.200 It is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

01:15:05.580 Bloody ridiculous.

01:15:07.660 You start with Kermit the Frog.

01:15:10.180 You take him to Toronto.

01:15:13.680 Yeah, having Jordan on Daily Wire Plus has been a real treat for me, because you guys kind of knew him better than I did, but I've gotten to interact with him a lot here lately.

01:15:23.020 And I'm so tickled by what a contrarian he is.

01:15:25.360 Oh, yeah.

01:15:26.000 I just hadn't really realized it.

01:15:27.700 I know it of myself, and I certainly know it of Andrew Clayton.

01:15:30.420 But Jordan is, like, one of the only guys in public life.

01:15:35.440 We're all contrarians, but we try to at least pretend to be good and decent and agreeable chaps.

01:15:41.200 But with Jordan, you'll say something like, here's a question from a Daily Wire subscriber.

01:15:45.640 Dr. Peterson, you know, how can I be more happy?

01:15:50.220 Well, I'm not going to answer that.

01:15:52.100 And it's a damn foolish question.

01:15:56.200 That's pretty good, too.

01:15:57.160 I've got to say, we should just have a Jordan.

01:15:58.900 Everybody does a Jordan Peterson.

01:16:00.080 It's like Bill Clinton.

01:16:01.220 You know, everyone has a Bill Clinton impression.

01:16:02.760 By the way, that answer, actually, that you just gave in Jordan's name is the right answer.

01:16:07.180 Of course.

01:16:08.720 But, you know, the Bible, the Old Testament, it does not really ever deal with the idea of happiness.

01:16:15.360 It never discusses happiness.

01:16:16.700 It gives you a bunch of duties.

01:16:17.800 It tells you a bunch of things to do.

01:16:19.660 And then it promises you that there will be some good effects from the things that you do.

01:16:22.680 But at no point does it say you will experience more joy in your life if you do X, Y, and Z, just on a pure emotional level.

01:16:30.300 Because no one can guarantee that, up to and including God, I think.

01:16:35.100 I mean, like, that one really is up to you.

01:16:38.800 What isn't up to you is that if you fulfill the duties, then you will be doing what you were established to do.

01:16:43.540 That's the problem.

01:16:44.040 I do believe that the New Testament offers up joy as a good thing.

01:16:46.800 I'm going to take an issue between the Old Testament.

01:16:49.320 But using the word joy and happiness as synonyms is not the right thing.

01:16:52.320 I agree.

01:16:52.680 I do not believe in happiness at all.

01:16:54.540 You know, you're happy, you win the lottery, you're happy for a couple of minutes.

01:16:57.140 And, you know, you lose the lottery, you're not happy.

01:16:58.900 But joy is a state of mind that actually is there even when you're in grief.

01:17:03.220 You know, it is that vitality of life, the presence.

01:17:05.640 You know, I always compare it to a movie where you're watching some character die and you're weeping.

01:17:10.640 And then you come out and say, wow, it's a great movie.

01:17:12.500 You know, life is kind of like that too.

01:17:14.180 You know, the vitality of all the things that happen in life is what joy is.

01:17:18.160 And I think you can achieve that if you side with the spirit.

01:17:22.220 I think it was C.S. Lewis who described it this way.

01:17:24.400 And if not, I'll just make it up.

01:17:25.680 Yeah, go ahead.

01:17:26.640 That joy is more akin to just about being able to answer a question.

01:17:33.500 Like there's just this kind of journey and this approach.

01:17:36.580 And this you're so close to the satisfaction, which is very different than just, you know, hey, that was a good drink.

01:17:43.260 Yeah, I'm happy now.

01:17:44.500 Yeah, in there's this very cryptic sort of commentary in the book of Exodus, which I'm supposed to discuss with Jordan, actually in the interview with Jordan.

01:17:53.460 And it discusses how the Jewish people come to Mount Sinai, Tahr, Sinai, and they're at the base of the mountain.

01:18:01.500 And it says that they're, and it says that they're Tachat Ha'har.

01:18:04.000 So the actual Hebrew meaning of that is underneath the mountain.

01:18:06.560 Tachat means under.

01:18:07.260 It doesn't mean at the base.

01:18:07.980 It means under the mountain.

01:18:08.800 And so there are a bunch of commentaries.

01:18:10.180 And these commentaries, the Midrash, it suggests that what God actually did is he holds the mountain over the heads of the Jews.

01:18:16.560 And he says, if you don't accept the Torah, I'm going to drop this on you.

01:18:20.540 And so this raises all sorts of questions, telemetically.

01:18:22.920 Like, okay, so was the Torah accepted by the Jews under duress, right?

01:18:26.340 I mean, was this, if, and it's a full-scale conversation that goes on for a fair bit of time.

01:18:31.300 And the sort of conclusion is, the only way to rectify that sort of bizarre take on the narrative,

01:18:38.000 that God is literally threatening you with destruction if you don't take, is that that's not God threatening you.

01:18:42.480 That's just the reality.

01:18:43.460 That unless you undertake the duty of living as you were supposed to live, the mountain will fall on you.

01:18:49.220 That is not because God is threatening you that way.

01:18:51.300 That's just the way the world is.

01:18:53.220 Meanwhile, we've got the culture which cuts off all the pathways to joy, which is what's so sinister.

01:18:58.860 My favorite New York Times piece recently, since we're talking about it, I think this is the New York Times, was the maternal instinct.

01:19:06.500 Yes, that was the New York Times.

01:19:07.440 New York Times, okay, good.

01:19:08.180 Let's do that or watch the Post.

01:19:09.180 Maternal instinct is a myth that men created.

01:19:11.960 50 years ago, we made it up.

01:19:14.120 But meanwhile, what she's really militating against is women fulfilling their duties as mothers and finding joy and happiness in it.

01:19:23.060 And it's the same sort of thing where she, I read the whole piece and it's very windy and circuitous.

01:19:28.140 She kind of, she seems close to acknowledging that, oh, maternal instinct does exist.

01:19:32.440 And by the end, she's like, no, it doesn't actually exist.

01:19:33.800 But that's, that's, you know, a path to joy.

01:19:36.240 Another one that they're trying to sort of cut off.

01:19:38.080 Almost as good as Scientific American, which sent out seven tweets.

01:19:41.000 Did you guys see this?

01:19:41.840 Oh, no, no.

01:19:42.460 I know that the idea of two sexes was invented in the late 18th century to, to bring more, you know, bigotry into human life.

01:19:51.660 Right, there were less sexes in 1400 and 1700s.

01:19:53.980 I don't know if you knew that.

01:19:54.840 But before that, there was only one sex, scientifically.

01:19:57.120 Great.

01:19:57.280 A man.

01:19:58.000 Yeah.

01:19:58.460 A man could have sex with men and make babies.

01:20:00.440 It was amazing.

01:20:01.100 We actually invented women.

01:20:02.340 You know, I wish I could take credit for that, but like.

01:20:07.600 I guess we did out of our rib, you know.

01:20:09.620 They just got their time scale slightly off.

01:20:13.000 I did see that, and I don't see nearly as much as you guys do.

01:20:15.620 But I couldn't even really figure out how they could possibly have arrived at this.

01:20:20.380 It's the opening of my show tomorrow.

01:20:21.740 And I have to say, I've been, whether I can get through this with a straight face, I don't know.

01:20:26.160 Because it is an amazing.

01:20:27.340 I do.

01:20:27.800 It actually makes me wonder if we're getting the gender conversation a little bit off.

01:20:32.340 Because our argument now, which is, you know, manifestly true, just looking around, is there's sex and there's gender.

01:20:38.960 And the libs say that gender expression and sex are divorced.

01:20:42.320 And we say there's no such thing as gender.

01:20:43.860 It's just sex, right?

01:20:44.740 Men and women.

01:20:45.440 That's what it is.

01:20:46.200 But in a sense, no, there is gender expression.

01:20:49.540 I mean, there is, first of all, and second of all, the very fact that they are expressing gender in these weird ways kind of proves that there is.

01:20:55.860 And really, what we're trying to say is there is sex and gender expression.

01:21:00.880 And the libs want them to be completely divorced.

01:21:03.620 And if you want to have a good life and flourish and, like, be in accord with reality, you've got to just bring them together.

01:21:10.380 That actually, when men do manly things, they'll do better.

01:21:14.860 And when women do womanly things, they'll do better.

01:21:16.660 But that's not really, that's not gender.

01:21:17.720 That's what Jordan Peterson talks about.

01:21:18.720 That's personality, right?

01:21:20.340 That's what we're really talking about.

01:21:21.320 But I also disagree because if reality has taught me anything here lately, it's that when men do feminine things, they do better.

01:21:29.860 These days.

01:21:31.020 I don't understand.

01:21:31.860 They keep telling us that gender and sex are different.

01:21:34.120 Yeah.

01:21:34.300 But then they also say things like trans women are biological women, which is a…

01:21:39.980 That's because they're lewons.

01:21:41.060 That's…

01:21:41.260 Oh, I'm sorry.

01:21:42.780 Oh, that solves it.

01:21:44.140 It was a sleight of hand trick where they invented this distinction between sex and gender.

01:21:48.620 And then it was very useful for them for about three or four decades.

01:21:51.700 And then in the last five years, they got rid of it.

01:21:54.100 And they said, oh, it's actually the same thing again.

01:21:55.500 So they got us to buy into this idea.

01:21:56.920 They reverse engineered it.

01:21:57.840 It was pretty clever.

01:21:59.040 But, you know, we even have words for this.

01:22:00.500 When we say, like, the word womanish.

01:22:02.240 Yeah.

01:22:02.380 We don't use it that much.

01:22:03.480 Norm MacDonald used to use it a lot.

01:22:04.940 But womanish is…

01:22:05.660 Effeminate, yeah.

01:22:06.580 Effeminate for a man.

01:22:08.220 Yeah.

01:22:08.340 You wouldn't call a woman womanish, right?

01:22:10.180 A woman is womanly, and that's good.

01:22:11.960 And when a man is behaving like a woman, that's womanish, and that's bad.

01:22:15.600 Why are we saying that's good or bad?

01:22:16.240 Like when your voice starts to wobble a little bit when you're talking to that guy from podcast.

01:22:20.040 Yeah, yeah.

01:22:21.240 And you don't.

01:22:21.900 And you say, get it together.

01:22:23.040 Come on, boring.

01:22:23.820 Come on, boring.

01:22:24.940 What's the matter with you?

01:22:27.580 Just punched myself in the crotch.

01:22:29.860 You know, to try to…

01:22:32.080 No, I believe.

01:22:33.260 I do believe.

01:22:34.000 I mean, I've mentioned many times that Brian Stelter missed a deadline in order to go to bed and cry.

01:22:38.700 And I think that may prove that you can change from a man to a woman.

01:22:45.720 Okay.

01:22:46.480 Sorry.

01:22:46.900 Go ahead.

01:22:47.240 No.

01:22:47.680 Well, I was going to say, we have a few questions from our Daily Wire Plus members,

01:22:51.920 but I'm going to save them for the member block, which is coming up here in 10 minutes.

01:22:55.720 If you're watching on YouTube, head over to Daily Wire Plus.

01:22:58.680 If you're a member, log in.

01:22:59.780 If you're not a member, become a member, then log in.

01:23:02.080 We're going to continue the show for an additional half hour,

01:23:04.880 and we'll take a ton of member questions during that period of time.

01:23:09.200 But let's wrap up the show, Ben, with your thoughts.

01:23:11.260 Okay, so I want a quick roundtable here on what do you guys think is going to happen in the election,

01:23:15.500 considering the polls have narrowed considerably and people are getting very, very nervous.

01:23:19.760 I think it's all fake.

01:23:21.000 I think the headlines are fake, and here's why.

01:23:22.780 We had a 10-point lead on the generic ballot in July, which is amazing.

01:23:26.580 I mean, that's when you talk about the red tsunami.

01:23:28.960 Now that lead has narrowed.

01:23:30.180 It's a five-point lead on the generic ballot, and they're saying, see, the walls are closing in.

01:23:34.380 The Republicans are going to lose it for all sorts of reasons, whatever.

01:23:37.280 But if you look back to 2018, the Democrats at this point had exactly the same lead as the Republicans did.

01:23:42.860 And by the way, it narrowed as the election got closer.

01:23:45.280 That's just what kind of happens.

01:23:46.660 And they went on to win.

01:23:47.520 And they crushed it.

01:23:48.300 Yeah, they absolutely crushed it.

01:23:49.400 So I think the libs are just trying to discourage conservatives.

01:23:52.000 I think the numbers don't bear out this fear that we're all of a sudden going to lose our momentum.

01:23:56.820 I largely agree with that.

01:23:58.040 I thought you, on your tweet thread about this, you made a really good point that focusing on Trump may hurt us with independence.

01:24:07.400 The people who attacked you immediately said, well, Trump is, you know, Trump's selections have won all these primaries.

01:24:12.740 And you think, yeah, but that's not the point.

01:24:13.900 You're talking about the generals.

01:24:15.080 That's not the general, right.

01:24:15.280 The generals, right.

01:24:16.180 But I basically agree with what you're saying.

01:24:18.860 Typically, summer polls are worse than autumn polls because they don't poll likely voters as much.

01:24:25.480 They tend to favor Democrats.

01:24:27.560 It's the polls have narrowed.

01:24:29.560 I do believe.

01:24:30.320 The specials are not going as well.

01:24:31.280 What's that?

01:24:31.760 The special elections are not going as well.

01:24:32.940 But the specials, 8% of people are showing up for those specials.

01:24:35.560 And I don't think, I think that the abortion question may serve the left more than we thought.

01:24:43.780 But I think that if Republicans can get their heads around the fact that they have to fight the culture war, that they have to fight the culture war, they can bring people out.

01:24:52.000 One place where I disagree with you is you frequently say that people vote against things.

01:24:56.040 But I think only conservatives vote against things.

01:24:57.660 I think women and other Democrats basically do vote for things because they want the government to do stuff.

01:25:04.840 But I do think you're right in terms of the numbers.

01:25:07.960 Right now, the numbers still favor Republicans.

01:25:11.340 And I think as the autumn continues, they're going to favor Republicans more.

01:25:15.260 And I actually think we still have an over 50% chance of taking the Senate.

01:25:20.560 Yeah.

01:25:21.060 It might be like 52, but it's...

01:25:22.740 It is.

01:25:23.280 It's like 55.

01:25:23.780 I agree that the polls are fake and everything's fake, and that's probably correct.

01:25:27.920 But I'm not as nervous about the polls.

01:25:29.880 I agree with Ben's take on this largely.

01:25:31.560 I mean, I'm just nervous about what I see from Republicans, which is it does seem like they're getting off message.

01:25:37.440 When the FBI raid happened and there are all these predictions on the right that, well, this is what's going to lead to the red wave.

01:25:43.320 People are not going to the polls to protect Donald Trump.

01:25:47.040 That's not what they're...

01:25:47.700 They're not getting up...

01:25:48.580 Parents are not waking up in the morning and saying, well, how's Donald Trump doing today with the FBI thing?

01:25:53.040 And what Republicans need to think about is, what do people wake up in the morning worried about?

01:25:58.080 What do they go to bed worried about?

01:25:59.340 The whole cliche, classic thing.

01:26:00.800 What are they talking about around the kitchen table?

01:26:02.020 Like, that is actually true.

01:26:03.420 And what are they thinking about?

01:26:04.360 They're thinking about their finances.

01:26:05.560 They're thinking about inflation.

01:26:06.400 They're thinking about, are my kids safe?

01:26:08.360 Crime.

01:26:09.020 They're really, really worried about the fact that it seems to them that our culture is plunging into insanity.

01:26:14.960 They're worried about what kind of culture we're leaving for our kids.

01:26:17.640 These are the things that plague people's minds every single day.

01:26:19.940 It seemed to me when Republicans were talking about that, that they were doing well.

01:26:24.860 And then when we went on this detour and we're talking about Trump and the FBI, then that's when the polls start to travel.

01:26:30.540 But the FBI raid, the issue with them raiding Mar-a-Lago is not Donald Trump.

01:26:34.320 The issue with them raiding Mar-a-Lago is that Biden himself is saying, it's about us.

01:26:38.400 He's going to sick the IRS on us.

01:26:40.120 I think, at least for me, the reason I care about the Mar-a-Lago raid is not because I'm upset about Donald Trump's furniture getting moved around.

01:26:47.940 It's that I think Trump is, it's like that meme he put out in the campaign.

01:26:52.100 They're going through him to get to us because they call us all fascists.

01:26:56.620 I don't disagree that you're right.

01:26:57.960 And eventually Biden, he keeps saying he's going to send F-15s to blow us up.

01:27:01.520 This isn't the first time he said it.

01:27:02.780 But they are fighting a proxy war against us by way of Trump.

01:27:09.040 That still doesn't make it a winning thing for us to talk about right now.

01:27:12.220 The average American is not sitting around today worried that the FBI is going to raid their houses and look for classified documents.

01:27:18.500 The average American today is not re-litigating 2020.

01:27:24.220 That's right.

01:27:24.680 The average American today is trying to figure out how to pay for gas when it's so freaking expensive.

01:27:29.360 And when Joe Biden is saying, oh, I brought gas prices down 43 cents.

01:27:32.660 It's up two bucks.

01:27:34.480 Like we, the average American is deeply concerned right now about what has happened to their kids over the last two years.

01:27:41.580 The fact that suicidality is up so high, that drug use is up so high.

01:27:45.220 The average American is worried about what their kids are being taught, about what kind of lives their kids should lead.

01:27:50.280 These are the kinds of issues that if we run on them, we win.

01:27:52.920 And the problem with President Trump is that he wants this election to be a referendum on him

01:27:58.540 because Donald Trump sees the entire world as a referendum on him.

01:28:02.180 He puts his name in gold letters on everything that he touches.

01:28:05.440 He is constitutionally, and I don't mean the document, he is constitutionally incapable of allowing the election to be about the things that matter to America

01:28:14.520 because he wants to be the thing that matters most to Americans.

01:28:17.960 And that may very well be fine in a presidential election.

01:28:21.900 It is not, I, I, even then I actually agree with Ben.

01:28:24.300 I think that all modern elections are referendums on someone and you should make sure it's a referendum on the other guy.

01:28:29.960 But even if it could work in 2024 with Donald Trump, it is a losing strategy for Republicans.

01:28:35.840 That's also what the Democrats, that's what the Democrats want too.

01:28:37.940 I think this is very simple.

01:28:39.120 Think about, think about what, right, think about what your opponents want to talk about and then don't talk about that thing.

01:28:46.000 Think about the things they really don't want you to talk about and talk about that thing.

01:28:49.780 The trans stuff, they will call you a terrorist if you talk about it.

01:28:53.580 Desperately, they will kick you off of every social media platform if you talk about it.

01:28:56.900 Obviously, that's the thing we should be talking about.

01:28:58.720 The economy, they don't want to talk about it.

01:28:59.660 Those are the things.

01:29:00.560 They really, really want us to talk about Trump.

01:29:02.100 But that is enough reason in and of itself to not talk about it.

01:29:04.740 And, you know, the thing about Trump is I keep getting these letters every time I criticize them.

01:29:08.700 You know, like, oh, you're criticizing the great Trump.

01:29:10.520 You know, I have to say this.

01:29:13.440 Trump to me is not what I'm here for.

01:29:17.000 Like, I am here for this country.

01:29:18.200 I got into this business because of this country because I actually do love it.

01:29:22.960 And I think, like, if Trump can help, I'm for Trump.

01:29:25.860 If he's past his point, and I think he is past the point where he can help, I'm for somebody else.

01:29:30.040 You know, it's like it's not really about Trump.

01:29:32.500 And I think that this attachment to him, and as you say, Trump is a narcissist.

01:29:37.460 Nobody would, I don't think even Trump would deny that.

01:29:39.520 I think Trump is a narcissist.

01:29:40.760 He may not know what a narcissist is, but if you give him the question of, Donald Trump, are you a narcissist?

01:29:44.800 I'm the biggest narcissist.

01:29:45.740 I can't believe Trump.

01:29:46.400 I'm the best narcissist.

01:29:48.180 You know, I just think that we should be thinking about how to win for the country.

01:29:52.680 Trump's not on the ballot.

01:29:53.720 He's not going to be on the ballot.

01:29:54.820 The people who are on the ballot, we should support them because basically the alternative is, are these guys who put your children?

01:30:01.840 If Donald Trump's the nominee in 2024, I will almost certainly vote for him.

01:30:05.140 Yep.

01:30:05.480 Right?

01:30:06.120 I'll never say certainly two years out from an election.

01:30:08.680 You're just not going to get that out of me.

01:30:09.720 But most likely, if Donald Trump is the nominee, I will almost certainly vote for the guy.

01:30:13.560 Like you, he did an awful lot of good in the first three years of his administration.

01:30:17.520 I think it's very hard to say that he wasn't, his presidency in the fourth year was a failure.

01:30:23.840 I mean, he lost the country during COVID.

01:30:26.320 Does that mean that he would be a failure in a second term?

01:30:29.160 No.

01:30:29.380 I mean, if the guy gets a second term, undoubtedly, a lot of great things will happen that I really like from a policy point of view.

01:30:34.400 That's great.

01:30:35.260 This is 2022.

01:30:36.560 Right.

01:30:37.100 Alan Estrin, our dear friend and the founder of Prager University, has a theory.

01:30:40.800 And his theory is that narrative is sort of an actual force that exists in the world.

01:30:45.920 I'm actually somewhat persuaded by this argument, by the way.

01:30:48.000 I'm 100% with this argument, yeah.

01:30:49.740 In the same way that Bible, Ben often says of the Bible that it's not always prescriptive.

01:30:54.400 It's almost always descriptive.

01:30:55.980 I think Alan Estrin's new theory is that narrative isn't our way of talking about, narrative isn't a human construct for understanding the world.

01:31:04.160 Narrative is something that humans have observed about the world.

01:31:07.220 And I'm compelled by this to some degree.

01:31:10.040 He says, in the great narrative of our time, it is all about Donald Trump.

01:31:15.920 That it isn't even about whether or not Donald Trump makes it about himself, which of course he will.

01:31:20.000 It's that they have made it about Donald Trump.

01:31:21.900 And that in this sort of grand narrative sense, the fight of the century has to happen.

01:31:29.660 America will not be able to let go of this crazy moment in our politics until we see what happens with Donald Trump in 2024.

01:31:36.360 When people tell me, when people tell me, well, if only Trump would go away, if only Trump would keep quiet, if only we can move past Donald Trump.

01:31:43.820 I think, you know, if my aunt had testicles, she'd be my uncle, right?

01:31:47.980 You know, there's a lot of ifs here.

01:31:49.360 Might still be your aunt.

01:31:49.980 And these days, she might still be my aunt.

01:31:51.980 And that's not the way it's working.

01:31:56.120 The libs are targeting all of their fire on this guy.

01:31:59.340 To me, that speaks well of him.

01:32:01.480 But regardless, they're going to do that.

01:32:03.140 They're going to put this in the news.

01:32:04.680 The guy is polling 40 points ahead of anybody else for 2024.

01:32:07.960 He's playing an active role in the midterms, as would anyone who's going to run for president in 2024.

01:32:13.560 And so it's just that is just a fact.

01:32:15.660 It's baked into it right now.

01:32:17.000 And I just don't think there's I don't think there's all that much use in saying, well, what if this fundamental fact of the political landscape were different?

01:32:24.480 But it is.

01:32:25.220 No, no, no, no.

01:32:25.780 I have made a executive God King like decision to let Michael Knowles have the last word for the first time in history, in the history of the Daily Wire backstage.

01:32:36.360 And I'm going to say that if you want to hear what we all think about how wrong Michael Knowles is, you have to head over to dailywireplus.com and become a subscriber.

01:32:45.320 You don't want to miss the rest of the show.

01:32:46.820 We're going into the member block right now.

01:32:48.900 If you use code plus, you will get 35 percent off and you can stick around for the next half hour.

01:32:54.700 We're going to be taking member questions and talking probably more about Donald Trump, because even when the message is it would be better electorally to stop talking about Donald Trump.

01:33:03.820 You can't resist.

01:33:04.680 And it ain't better for ratings.

01:33:07.000 We'll see you guys next time.

The Michael Knowles Show - August 31, 2022

Daily Wire Backstage： Now With Even More Dystopia!

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