The Michael Knowles Show - Ep. 11 - ＂Unite The Right＂ Speaker James Allsup Talks Charlottesville

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00:00:38.000 Today, we'll be speaking with Charlottesville Unite the Rights Speaker and embattled Washington State College Republican President James Alsup.

00:00:45.680 Plus, Josh Yasma, Aaron Bandler, and thank goodness Amanda Prestigiacomo join the panel of deplorables

00:00:52.200 to discuss Kim Jong-un backing down, Iceland's Down syndrome genocide, and the most liked tweet in history.

00:00:59.980 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:01:00.780 This is The Michael Knowles Show.

00:01:01.720 We're also going to talk, if we have time, I should have mentioned, why everybody seems to be attacking Lincoln these days.

00:01:16.440 There was some graffiti on the Lincoln Memorial last night, so we'll be talking about that a little bit later.

00:01:22.060 So, for our guest today, we're lucky to have James Alsup.

00:01:25.200 We had actually booked him before any of this craziness happened over the weekend between the neo-Nazis and Antifa in Charlottesville,

00:01:32.980 and we figured he was there, and in the spirit of open discourse and debate, we would bring him on to tell us what he saw and describe the event to us.

00:01:41.980 James, do we have you?

00:01:44.240 Yes, I'm here, and thank you for having me here.

00:01:46.040 James, thank you for coming.

00:01:48.380 Great, yeah, of course.

00:01:49.760 Yeah, no, Charlottesville was insane.

00:01:51.100 I think that it was one of those situations where, going into it, nobody really knew exactly what to expect.

00:01:57.040 People had different preconceived notions about what might happen, what they might see there, but once we got there on the ground, everything, all of the plans kind of went out the window.

00:02:05.780 Well, this is what I want to talk to you about because, you know, I also was a college Republican president.

00:02:11.420 I remember, you know, I was involved in right-wing activism back when I was a pretty young thing, such as you are.

00:02:17.360 And my question about this Unite the Right event is that it's called Unite the Right.

00:02:23.560 It was organized by a number of people, but there weren't any mainstream conservatives there.

00:02:28.860 So there were no representatives from the mainstream of the conservative movement.

00:02:32.360 There were no Republican politicians that could be talked about.

00:02:35.940 There weren't even alt-light people like Cernovich.

00:02:38.980 Gavin McGinnis turned it down.

00:02:40.540 Based Stickman, one of my favorite characters from the Internet.

00:02:43.540 They all turned it down.

00:02:44.560 So the only people that I see there are neo-Nazis, neo-Confederates, white nationalists like Richard Spencer, white identity advocates like Identity Europa.

00:02:55.580 Why?

00:02:56.520 My question, my straightforward question to you is, why would you go?

00:03:00.360 What were you thinking going?

00:03:01.200 Well, I was actually going to deliver a speech about nationalism as a concept, not, you know, ethnic nationalism, about nationalism.

00:03:08.800 I was going to speak about how nationalism is not a hateful philosophy, but it's a philosophy that is based around love of, you know, your country and your fellow countrymen.

00:03:17.540 And I don't think it's quite fair to say that the only people there were neo-Nazis.

00:03:21.620 You know, I was on the ground there.

00:03:22.600 I think there were others.

00:03:23.680 I think there were white nationalists.

00:03:25.100 I think there was Richard Spencer was a leader of it.

00:03:27.200 I think there were neo-Confederates.

00:03:28.740 I think there were people like, I forget his name, the man who organized it, who said, screw Lincoln, I'm a Southern man.

00:03:36.400 I think there was a lot of Southern pride there, and there were a lot of neo-Confederates.

00:03:42.240 And I agree with you.

00:03:43.180 I don't think it's fair to call them all Nazis, but there were swastika flags there.

00:03:46.500 And what's worse than that, I didn't see anybody from the other side, any other people from the right wing.

00:03:53.280 So when I see Unite the Right, I think it couldn't even unite the alt-right.

00:03:57.140 It couldn't even bring the alt-right guys around.

00:03:59.380 And then my question to you is, knowing that, even I understand you want to give a speech about nationalism,

00:04:04.160 knowing the optics of that, knowing that you're known by the friends that you keep,

00:04:08.100 why appear with Richard Spencer and the KKK?

00:04:13.080 Well, I don't think anybody knew the KKK was going to be there.

00:04:15.680 I certainly didn't when I went there.

00:04:17.660 And to be fair, I don't think the KKK really was there.

00:04:20.540 I mean, we're seeing this in the media, right?

00:04:21.980 The fake news media is trying to make this out to be some kind of KKK event.

00:04:25.220 But there were no hoods.

00:04:26.580 You know, the pictures they were showing were from months ago.

00:04:29.180 That's all a fake news narrative.

00:04:30.560 But you would say that Richard Spencer is a white nationalist.

00:04:33.380 And you would say he was involved in leading this event.

00:04:36.800 Sure.

00:04:37.600 So I guess my question then is,

00:04:40.140 why would you allow yourself to be associated with somebody like Richard Spencer?

00:04:45.680 I don't have to agree with everyone at an event, right?

00:04:49.060 By appearing at an event, I'm not in no way co-signing the opinions of everyone else who's there.

00:04:53.540 Of course.

00:04:54.100 But did you agree with anyone at that event?

00:04:56.380 I understand if they have some kooks and then they have other points of view

00:05:01.680 and it's a free speech event and it's a unite the right,

00:05:04.640 I understand that that would be a different thing.

00:05:06.680 But did you agree with any of these people there?

00:05:11.460 It depends what topic you're talking about.

00:05:13.320 I mean, on something like economics, for example,

00:05:15.620 Spencer and I have very different philosophies about a lot of that stuff.

00:05:18.480 And by the way, we would have heard what all of these opinions are.

00:05:21.340 We would have heard all these different opinions

00:05:22.580 and we could have an accurate representation

00:05:24.280 and understand what these people actually believe in

00:05:26.360 if the event had been allowed to continue.

00:05:27.960 Sure, I agree.

00:05:28.620 Clearly the police did very little.

00:05:30.660 Clearly Antifa were bullying everybody all around.

00:05:33.760 You know, it's in the fake news media,

00:05:35.980 but occasionally they get something right.

00:05:37.760 This event has been called Unite the White.

00:05:40.320 Do you think that there was a white identity

00:05:42.660 that was the major component of this event?

00:05:46.460 I can't speak for everyone else who was there.

00:05:48.460 I know that I was going to speak about nationalism.

00:05:50.260 Do you think the event was primarily a white identity event?

00:05:55.140 I understand you weren't there for that.

00:05:56.840 I'm not asking about your motives.

00:05:58.160 I'm just asking if you think that was what the event was.

00:06:01.880 I think that may have been an aspect of it, sure.

00:06:04.260 I mean, but at the same time,

00:06:05.600 you know, we have these events across the country.

00:06:07.680 We have Black Lives Matter events.

00:06:08.960 We have La Raza on hundreds of college campuses. 1.00

00:06:11.240 Black and Hispanic identity is completely seen 1.00

00:06:13.160 as completely okay by the mainstream media and the left.

00:06:16.420 But do you think those are okay?

00:06:17.760 Do you think Black Lives Matter and La Raza

00:06:19.500 and all those other ethnic identity groups are all right?

00:06:24.420 And if you don't think so, as I don't think so,

00:06:26.820 then why is it any better when we do it?

00:06:29.700 When white people do it?

00:06:30.440 I don't condone violence.

00:06:31.520 Yeah, no, I don't condone violence.

00:06:32.960 But I'm not talking about violence.

00:06:33.980 I'm talking about this identity mob organizing

00:06:37.140 that now we're seeing replicated in some ways on the alt-right.

00:06:41.620 Sure, but I think it's fair to say

00:06:43.820 that you can differentiate between Black identity movements

00:06:46.380 like the Hotep movement, for example,

00:06:48.220 and Black Lives Matter.

00:06:49.160 So I guess Black Lives Matter wasn't a great example.

00:06:51.180 I completely think that the violence perpetrated

00:06:53.940 by people like Black Lives Matter

00:06:55.440 or La Raza in California,

00:06:57.080 that's despicable.

00:06:58.400 But I don't necessarily think there's something wrong

00:07:02.780 with these identity movements

00:07:04.600 because there is one of the unfortunate truths

00:07:08.460 when you look at societies

00:07:09.480 that have a lot of political stratification like we do

00:07:12.040 is that people will often align along racial lines.

00:07:15.380 I'm not saying that's good or bad.

00:07:16.420 I'm not saying that's a positive or negative.

00:07:18.140 You think we have to admit it and we have to accept it?

00:07:21.060 And are you saying that the right in this country

00:07:24.020 basically has to appeal to white identity

00:07:25.940 if it's going to have a future?

00:07:28.920 I'm saying, well, I wouldn't say it like that.

00:07:31.920 But I think what you're seeing is

00:07:33.480 if you look at the data from Pew Research,

00:07:35.340 you're seeing that the Republican Party

00:07:36.900 is becoming more and more made up of white people.

00:07:40.020 And you're seeing that actually minorities, 0.54

00:07:43.120 African Americans and Hispanics,

00:07:44.760 are becoming further left.

00:07:45.960 You're also seeing white Americans become further right. 0.89

00:07:48.840 And that trend has been happening since the 70s.

00:07:51.160 And as that trend continues,

00:07:52.480 I think we will continue to see political realignment in that way.

00:07:56.240 I think it depends.

00:07:57.120 I grant you some of that.

00:07:58.920 I think it depends a little bit on how you define left and right

00:08:01.440 from the 70s through the 80s and 90s and 2000s.

00:08:04.020 But I'm a little confused because the alt-right has embraced,

00:08:07.960 I think it basically defined itself as you are defining it,

00:08:11.400 leaning in toward white identity,

00:08:13.940 appealing to white demographics.

00:08:15.300 And yet, the alt-right is a very new movement.

00:08:17.520 As a political movement, it's only about a year old in public.

00:08:20.600 And during Barack Obama's presidency,

00:08:22.540 we did not see the Tea Party

00:08:24.360 and other grassroots movements appealing to white demographics.

00:08:27.580 And yet, we took over the whole country.

00:08:29.980 We won so much, we almost got sick and tired of winning.

00:08:32.760 We took 1,000 seats in state legislatures.

00:08:35.240 We got 24 governorships out of 32 Republican state legislatures.

00:08:39.540 We took the Congress, the Senate, and the presidency.

00:08:41.780 It looks like we did pretty well without explicitly appealing to white identity.

00:08:46.100 Tell me I'm wrong.

00:08:47.480 And we got nothing done.

00:08:48.800 I mean, Obamacare is still in place.

00:08:50.080 We have no new protections on trade.

00:08:52.960 We didn't build the wall.

00:08:54.000 Yeah, Republicans are great at getting in power, 0.81

00:08:56.380 but they're awful at getting things done when they get in power.

00:08:58.580 But it seems a little confusing to me because it seems to me that you're saying that as an electoral strategy,

00:09:05.340 in order to win elections, we need to appeal to white demographics.

00:09:08.760 But that doesn't seem true from the last eight years.

00:09:11.200 And then you'll say the trouble is we get elected and we don't do anything.

00:09:15.300 And I totally grant you that. 0.98

00:09:16.600 I absolutely grant you that the Republicans in Congress have been squishy and basically useless.

00:09:22.020 But they seem to be different questions, right? 0.77

00:09:23.680 How do we win elections?

00:09:24.860 What do we appeal to?

00:09:25.700 And how do we operate once we're in office?

00:09:29.660 I think we can't be purely introspective when we talk about this question.

00:09:32.900 I think we also have to look at the Democratic Party.

00:09:34.920 And the Democrats have been going down this road where they're employing a lot of anti-white rhetoric,

00:09:39.280 and they're aligning themselves with people who are very, very anti-white with anti-white messaging.

00:09:43.160 And look, you know, for young white college guys like myself who see a lot of that messaging going on,

00:09:48.600 we're told about white privilege and how white men are responsible for everything.

00:09:51.760 The reaction for some people is to fold and say, yes, you're right. 0.97

00:09:54.780 I'm evil because I'm white. 0.89

00:09:55.940 But for a lot of people, it's to reject that narrative entirely and say, look, you know.

00:10:00.220 I don't have a lot of privilege.

00:10:01.700 I don't grow up in.

00:10:02.680 Yeah, yeah.

00:10:03.840 I totally understand that.

00:10:05.500 It seems to me that for a lot of people your age, a little bit younger, even as old as I am,

00:10:11.960 we were told, we were brought up in this milieu of feminism and being told that straight men are bad

00:10:17.280 and white men are bad and this, that and the other thing. 0.57

00:10:19.760 My concern is that seems to have provoked a reactionary response that is feeding the worst elements of the identity politics that drove us crazy in the first place. 0.92

00:10:31.860 Do you have any thoughts on that?

00:10:34.320 Yeah, no, I can understand that.

00:10:35.520 But I think we also have to look at this as a defensive measure, right?

00:10:39.700 There is a perceived attack.

00:10:41.760 And, you know, whether this is entirely legitimate or not, there is a perceived attack on white people in this country.

00:10:47.100 It's coming from the media.

00:10:48.220 It's coming from government.

00:10:49.320 It's coming through the education system with affirmative action.

00:10:51.980 And there's a lot to be said for that.

00:10:53.900 It's in the culture.

00:10:54.440 Every year, Silicon Valley – sure, absolutely.

00:10:56.820 Silicon Valley puts out these numbers and these diversity reports every year, you know, the diversity reports,

00:11:01.840 which are essentially then bragging about how many fewer white people they hired.

00:11:05.020 And, you know, look, I don't think anybody should be subjected to that.

00:11:08.640 And I would say that for any race.

00:11:10.300 I don't think any race should have to be, you know, subjected to that kind of thing.

00:11:13.520 Now, what's interesting –

00:11:14.340 And at the same time –

00:11:15.080 Go ahead.

00:11:15.680 I'm sorry.

00:11:16.180 Go ahead.

00:11:17.500 Okay, okay.

00:11:18.460 I'll finish quickly.

00:11:19.300 I was going to say is that every year, you know, Republican politicians and Democrat politicians consistently agree on,

00:11:24.720 bringing in more H-1B visa applicants.

00:11:26.900 This has the effect of driving down wages for American labor.

00:11:29.760 That's really what I'm concerned mostly about is an America First policy when it comes to our trade and our immigration.

00:11:36.120 And reducing trade and immigration.

00:11:37.280 I agree entirely, which brings me back to my first question.

00:11:40.200 Believe it or not, there are other groups that have opposed immigration and have advocated for lower legal and illegal immigration,

00:11:48.360 who have advocated for trade – protective trade tariffs since the 90s.

00:11:53.040 There's two differing degrees of effect.

00:11:56.880 Obviously, the Bush administration did not take immigration enforcement terribly seriously, tried to push amnesty.

00:12:04.280 And so on.

00:12:05.420 That is the understatement of the year.

00:12:07.120 Don't you think there are other groups that you could align yourselves with that aren't, as those who showed up in Charlottesville,

00:12:14.740 that aren't explicitly white identity, white nationalists like Richard Spencer?

00:12:19.320 I'll let you answer.

00:12:20.080 And then there is something I'd like you to respond to that I was perusing on your YouTube channel.

00:12:25.620 Yeah, no, certainly.

00:12:26.640 And I consider myself to be a paleo-conservative.

00:12:29.600 Look, I got into politics back in 2012 with Ron Paul.

00:12:32.000 So I'm coming at policy from a very libertarian perspective.

00:12:35.460 Didn't we all?

00:12:35.920 When we were all young, didn't we?

00:12:37.540 Yeah.

00:12:39.420 Yeah, we were all naive and thinking about winning caucus strategies and stuff back in 2012.

00:12:44.240 It was a good time.

00:12:45.380 But so I come at it from a libertarian perspective with a lot of this stuff.

00:12:49.700 And so I look, when I look at politicians, at people like Paul Nayland, who are excellent representations of what I believe America first policy should be.

00:12:58.460 I like people like Steve King as another fantastic example of someone who is putting, you know, these workers first.

00:13:03.740 I actually did an interview with Paul Nayland on my YouTube channel where we talked about a lot of this stuff.

00:13:07.440 We talked about how the uniparty, the Republicans and the Democrats, are both kind of screwing the American worker and making things worse for everyday Americans.

00:13:15.280 This is, you know, just to get back, I don't want to drop Ron Paul too quickly.

00:13:18.300 This is one of the reasons why I'm interested in your videos.

00:13:22.300 And I remember, you know, when I was, I was joking that at 17, every kid, every young kid on the right reads Ayn Rand and is convinced he knows everything for about six months.

00:13:31.060 And then he kind of floats away from it usually, move away from libertarianism, what have you.

00:13:36.040 And my worry with a lot of young people and with you as well, James, I worry that people are getting famous too young and they're espousing these views too young.

00:13:46.040 Views that might change and views that might be nuanced.

00:13:49.260 And I think you're playing with bad juju with these all right guys.

00:13:52.500 And to give an example, I will, we have a clip of Richard Spencer from your channel, from a speech he gave at the Lincoln Memorial.

00:13:58.880 That's clip 001.

00:14:00.380 We aren't fighting for freedom.

00:14:04.540 We aren't fighting for the Constitution.

00:14:08.840 We aren't fighting to liberate some foreign people who will probably rise up against us five years after we leave.

00:14:17.660 We are fundamentally fighting for meaning in our lives.

00:14:22.120 We are fundamentally fighting to be part of something that is bigger than ourselves.

00:14:27.380 We are fighting to be part of a family together.

00:14:31.820 We are fighting to be strong again, to be beautiful again.

00:14:36.740 We are fighting to be powerful again in a sea of weakness and hopelessness.

00:14:42.560 That is our battle.

00:14:44.840 I think he's absolutely honest and absolutely right in describing what he's doing.

00:14:52.000 This quest for meaning.

00:14:53.500 They don't really care about the Constitution, you know, there's that meme, but my Constitution, my Constitution doesn't protect anything if you don't have voting demographics, is how it goes online.

00:15:04.580 The question here, I wonder, is what is that meaning?

00:15:09.300 What is that meaning that the alt-right is trying to embrace?

00:15:12.860 It seems to me it's just the white race. 0.99

00:15:15.440 It's the color of your skin and communities that have historically lived near each other.

00:15:20.540 Am I wrong?

00:15:21.220 Well, I think you'd have to ask Richard Spencer that question.

00:15:24.720 I can't defend or – and I don't have any interest in defending everything Richard's ever said.

00:15:29.340 You know, look, Richard –

00:15:30.120 I only ask you because it was on your channel.

00:15:32.000 I only ask you because I know you were at the event.

00:15:33.820 And if you have any – you know, you've spent more time with these guys than I have.

00:15:37.040 I think what they would say is that they are fighting to – they're fighting to, I guess, continue the flame of Western civilization, right?

00:15:47.400 You know, people throughout Western civilization throughout history have built great things, built great empires, done great things.

00:15:52.620 You know, the foundations of modern philosophy and art and music, all of this comes out of really, you know, mostly Western Europe.

00:15:58.860 Of course.

00:15:59.060 And they're fighting to continue that cultural tradition.

00:16:01.900 And I don't see anything wrong with that.

00:16:03.040 I agree entirely.

00:16:04.440 And this is my essential question on that because I think that's exactly right.

00:16:08.320 I would – I am an evangelist for Western culture.

00:16:11.640 It's obviously the greatest civilization in the history of man, obviously, providentially guided.

00:16:17.120 What is Western culture?

00:16:18.220 Because I highly suspect that most of these people know very little about Western culture.

00:16:23.640 What is it?

00:16:24.260 What is the West?

00:16:25.380 What is Western culture?

00:16:27.140 Well, I would actually argue that one of the greatest manifestations of Western culture and values are the United States founding documents.

00:16:34.400 It is this idea that we can have a society that guarantees freedom and liberties to people but also inspires you to work towards bettering yourself.

00:16:43.600 You know, you're ultimately responsible for yourself.

00:16:45.380 And the – if you think back to the 1700s and the late 1700s, we were a country and we were founded as a country with a very, very small state for a reason.

00:16:54.300 But we were also a country with very large, you know, church groups, right?

00:16:57.960 Right.

00:16:58.380 Communities, voluntary communities, voluntary associations.

00:17:00.780 We were founded as a country that would be free from the trappings of European royalty, I guess you could say.

00:17:05.940 Very religious while all of Europe is running away from Christianity. 0.90

00:17:10.200 Of course.

00:17:11.000 Absolutely.

00:17:12.020 And equalitarian, by the way.

00:17:14.120 All men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, which would traditionally be written as property.

00:17:23.780 And if you look at the 1790 – if you look at the 1790 Naturalization Act, it's very interesting because they actually make it a required provision where people who emigrate from Europe renounce all of their former titles.

00:17:34.420 You know, if you were a lord or some kind of, you know, royalty in Europe, you actually had to give that up.

00:17:39.600 And to become an American citizen, you had to, you know, accept that kind of, you know, abandonment of the former hierarchy.

00:17:47.880 Right.

00:17:47.940 So I think that the American values we were founded on are actually one of the greatest manifestations of Western civilization.

00:17:54.200 I agree.

00:17:54.600 And now my – so my question for all of these guys who have a stated goal, which is exactly the same as my stated goal, which is to promote Western culture and defend Western culture.

00:18:04.980 But as we've just said, the Western culture, it was expressed in these founding documents in the notion that we're endowed by our creator with unalienable rights.

00:18:15.020 All of these guys were Christian.

00:18:16.780 Basically, the West, it seems to me, is a combination of Athens and Jerusalem that spread throughout Europe for 2,000 years. 0.60

00:18:22.540 It blossomed in the United States and elsewhere.

00:18:25.880 But Christianity is the central factor, right?

00:18:29.620 Cult – culture comes from cult.

00:18:31.380 It's what we worship.

00:18:32.900 So are these guys Christian?

00:18:34.280 Are you Christian?

00:18:37.380 Yeah, I was raised Christian, right?

00:18:39.140 I consider myself to be very culturally Christian.

00:18:41.420 What do you mean by that?

00:18:42.420 Before we go on.

00:18:43.240 Okay.

00:18:43.780 I'm sorry.

00:18:44.180 Continue.

00:18:45.140 Yeah, no, no.

00:18:45.740 I'll expound on that.

00:18:46.620 Yeah.

00:18:46.920 No, I believe that the Ten Commandments and the biblical teachings are a fantastic foundation and should be the bedrock of Western civilization and culture.

00:18:55.620 The Ten Commandments and the ideas expressed in the Bible should really be the guiding light for how we treat each other and how we, you know, manage our day-to-day dealings.

00:19:03.880 You sound mostly Christian to me, but where – so where do you disagree with them?

00:19:08.740 Well, it's not that I disagree with them.

00:19:09.980 It's just that I don't participate in organized religion to the extent where I would be comfortable calling myself, you know, a Christian.

00:19:17.660 Do you believe in Jesus?

00:19:18.400 In that degree.

00:19:19.740 Sure.

00:19:20.740 I think everybody does, don't they?

00:19:22.200 You believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who came down to save all of mankind and was killed and then on the third day was literally resurrected to redeem man?

00:19:33.240 You know, I'm not certain.

00:19:34.460 Again, I'm not up on my Christian theology, but I do believe in these teachings.

00:19:38.580 And I think that it is absolutely imperative that we have respect for the Christian tradition.

00:19:44.180 I see your point.

00:19:46.600 The reason I want to interject a little bit here is I think there are two issues with what you've said.

00:19:51.060 I think the phrase culturally Christian – I've heard Richard Spencer describe himself that way too.

00:19:55.840 I think it is nonsense.

00:19:57.280 I think it is etymologically not impossible.

00:20:00.560 I think it's semantic nonsense because the word culture comes from cult, right?

00:20:05.480 It's what we worship.

00:20:06.520 So to say one is culturally Christian would appear to me to say we believe in Christ.

00:20:13.160 We believe in Christianity.

00:20:14.720 And yet, whenever anyone says that, there is a caveat that says I like Christianity.

00:20:19.200 I like the churches.

00:20:20.000 I like the civilization that Christianity produced.

00:20:22.680 But I just don't believe in the thing that produced it.

00:20:25.120 I don't believe in the thing that animated it.

00:20:27.220 And I don't know.

00:20:28.040 I see this a lot on the left.

00:20:29.420 I talk about this all the time.

00:20:30.540 Lefties want to drink decaf coffee. 1.00

00:20:32.520 You know, they want to get a university degree without a university education.

00:20:35.280 They always want the semblance of the thing, the appearance of the thing, but not the essence of the thing, not the thing that animates it.

00:20:41.660 And so I wonder, to the second point of what you've talked about, you say you believe that the Ten Commandments ought to be the structure of the bedrock of civilization, the Christian foundations.

00:20:51.980 There ought to be more churches for more civic society, civil society.

00:20:55.740 But why?

00:20:57.460 If it isn't true, if the Ten Commandments don't come from God, why should they be the foundation of society?

00:21:05.260 Or on the flip side, why have they worked?

00:21:08.820 Well, I think that they have objectively produced the best societies in world history.

00:21:13.060 You know, and so, you know, even if you were to take the religious aspect out of it, you could say that these values, if you look at these values from a, you know, non-religious perspective, you could say these values have produced these great societies.

00:21:25.900 And on that merit, you know, they should be supported.

00:21:28.320 But why have they produced the great societies?

00:21:32.440 Because they're congruous and good.

00:21:33.960 I'm not, I'm not sure.

00:21:35.100 Why are they good?

00:21:35.820 This is one argument for God, right?

00:21:37.820 As you keep saying, well, why is this better than that?

00:21:39.640 Why is this better than that?

00:21:40.360 And eventually, you get to the perfect good.

00:21:43.060 So my only question is, I think people bend themselves over backwards to try to make Christianity secular on the alt-right.

00:21:49.680 And I just don't, not only do I not see if it's possible, I don't see why they would do it in the first place.

00:21:56.940 Yeah, no, I don't really inherently disagree with you.

00:22:00.160 I think you're probably correct about a lot of this.

00:22:02.960 It's not something, but here's the thing.

00:22:04.560 It's not something that is, I guess, that I spend a lot of time thinking about.

00:22:09.640 Perhaps I should think about it more.

00:22:11.200 I think so.

00:22:11.780 And I don't, by the way, I don't mean this, I don't mean to be patronizing, but I know I sound like I'm patronizing.

00:22:17.140 But I think there are a lot of young conservatives that you represent and that you can speak to and that you're a voice for.

00:22:23.420 And I think that on the road of thinking thoughtfully and of reading a lot of books, people come up with some kooky ideas and go down bad paths.

00:22:33.480 And people who are in the public eye and who go on camera have the misfortune of knowing that the Internet is forever and you're going to be chased by this for the rest of your life.

00:22:42.400 And it might behoove people to think about the conclusions, the logical extremes of their ideas before they make grand statements.

00:22:51.960 And the reason we talk about Christianity is it seems that the religion, the Christianity that created the West, the West that the alt-right alleges to defend, objects to a great many things that the alt-right is advocating and doing.

00:23:06.520 In particular, the racist aspect of it, in particular, separating people categorically by race, advocating things like the ethnostate, so on and so forth.

00:23:17.360 It seems to me, I mean, I think you would be bored if I read all of the scriptures about it.

00:23:22.640 You'd probably take my word for it.

00:23:24.060 But there are endless scriptures that talk about this.

00:23:26.660 This fundamental contradiction in the alt-right seems to me irreconcilable and shows the movement for what it is, which I think is half-witted. 0.99

00:23:34.420 Sort of like the New York Times editorial board, you know, it's these guys who are a little bit smart, and so they convince the New York Times readers to believe their idiocy. 0.99

00:23:42.960 But I really think it's half-witted. 0.99

00:23:45.860 You can respond.

00:23:47.320 So, yeah, sure.

00:23:48.280 So I guess the question that you have to ask is, were the founding fathers wrong?

00:23:51.340 Because, again, going back to 1790, and we're saying that, you know, these people were Christians.

00:23:56.200 I would have actually said they're theists, but if we want to say they're Christians, that's fine, too. 1.00

00:23:59.520 I think a great many of them were Christian.

00:24:00.960 I think some were deistic.

00:24:02.200 There was some plurality, but they all came from the Puritan stock that came over here on the Mayflower.

00:24:09.560 Yeah, no, exactly right.

00:24:11.220 So then you look at the 1790 Immigration Act, and the 1790 Immigration Act, I should say, explicitly restricted citizenship to free white people of good character.

00:24:21.060 And that was a standard up until the mid to late 1800s.

00:24:24.580 And so I guess we could then say, you know, were the founders wrong to say that?

00:24:27.740 No, I don't think so. Surely you would agree that history requires context and that the society of 2017, excuse me, is quite different than the society of the late 18th century.

00:24:39.360 Of course. Yeah. No, of course.

00:24:40.720 So therefore laws would change, right? Opinions would change.

00:24:44.020 Even people would change.

00:24:45.440 People that have been held in bondage for 200 years in the Americas or who have come out of a civilization in Africa that is in very few ways similar to the civilization of the West.

00:24:55.960 Surely their position might be a little different in society, and the laws would reflect that after the slaves are emancipated, after Jim Crow is obliterated, and, you know, we arrive at 2017 in a basically equalitarian place.

00:25:12.000 Right. And I'm not arguing that we should, you know, return to this or anything.

00:25:16.920 I'm just saying that this is the situation and this is the system that the founding fathers set up, that these Christians set up. 1.00

00:25:24.020 And throughout the vast majority of the Christian history, these kind of policies were accepted and were put in place.

00:25:30.860 And so it's actually a relatively short time in the Christian history that we've believed in this idea of egalitarianism.

00:25:36.000 It seems to me that slavery, especially slavery as we're talking about in the United States, is an aberration in the history of the West.

00:25:43.700 It wasn't practiced, certainly not as it was in the United States for all of the West.

00:25:48.320 And by the way, that slavery only came about because we interacted with the people for the first time in the West Coast of Africa in a trade relationship.

00:25:59.240 Well, that's not entirely true.

00:26:00.840 I mean, the Europeans held slaves for many years.

00:26:02.480 Because slavery can trace its roots back to, you know, the Islamic world, you know, and the Islamic world. 0.84

00:26:08.100 I'm not denying that there was slavery in the West.

00:26:09.780 The Greeks had helots and the Romans had slaves. 0.94

00:26:11.980 But those institutions of slavery were quite different.

00:26:14.720 And they also were less racial, depending on which eras and which places we're talking about in the history of the West.

00:26:21.900 Sure. And they were also quite a bit more brutal.

00:26:23.520 And so it's important to remember that the American form of slavery was actually, and I'm sure this will be cut out of context somewhere, but the American form of slavery was actually one of the gentler forms of slavery that existed.

00:26:34.380 You know, the Egyptians would actually, you know, do horrible things to their slaves, their castration, etc., before they would ever take them into bondage.

00:26:41.500 And so, yeah, you know, history is replete with brutality and horrible things.

00:26:46.500 Sure. Parts of the American experience of slavery, different decades were different, but parts were quite brutal.

00:26:52.980 And other parts, relatively less brutal, say, than in the years right before the war.

00:26:58.460 I suppose that's right.

00:26:59.120 But, you know, one issue, because we've been kind of dancing around the culture and race, and it seems to me that, you know, any racial categorical differences, as they would matter for public policy, might just as easily be explained by culture as by genetics.

00:27:14.780 I know a lot of people on the alt-right say that race and culture are inextricably linked.

00:27:19.480 Would you agree with that?

00:27:22.400 I don't think that's, no, I don't think that's entirely true.

00:27:25.800 I agree. 0.98

00:27:26.240 Also, I just see it flying around quite a lot, and I think that's another example of some of the stupidities that the alt-right is promulgating. 0.98

00:27:33.800 The other is, do we need to worry about, the thing that they can't stop talking about is racial differences in IQ, as posited by Charles Murray. 0.96

00:27:41.780 Is there any implication for public policy by these handfuls of studies that have shown some correlation?

00:27:48.100 Well, I don't know if it's, if there's necessarily an implication for public policy, but I think it's an important thing to understand, because it helps us understand why certain groups tend to, on average, I'll be very clear, tend to, on average, perform differently than others in society.

00:28:03.540 You look at why there are so many Asians, for example, that get into very top-tier schools, or why Asians do so well in the SAT.

00:28:09.900 Well, it's due to the fact that Asians tend to have an IQ closer to around 110. 0.89

00:28:14.420 You don't think it's cultural?

00:28:15.300 You don't think it's because those cultural groups put more of an emphasis on studying, more of an emphasis on schooling?

00:28:22.360 You don't think it's possibly explained by that?

00:28:24.000 What scientists would argue is that it's a mixture of both.

00:28:28.280 But what scientists would argue...

00:28:29.420 Well, I don't have any scientists, son, James.

00:28:31.120 I've only got you.

00:28:32.100 I'm kidding.

00:28:32.760 I just... 0.93

00:28:33.860 It drives me crazy, because lefties...

00:28:35.660 This is a thing lefties do. 1.00

00:28:36.860 They always say, well, what I think scientists would argue is, and I think, I don't know.

00:28:39.600 You don't know any scientists.

00:28:40.860 I'm not a scientist myself.

00:28:42.520 Just a gentleman and a scholar.

00:28:43.500 But I've read studies, right?

00:28:45.120 Yeah.

00:28:45.820 Go ahead.

00:28:46.740 You've read studies.

00:28:47.380 But yeah, no, and this is very well researched that many of the people who research this kind

00:28:54.900 of thing professionally argue that intelligence is about 80% genetic and about 20% cultural

00:29:00.520 and through the nurture.

00:29:02.740 It's a nature versus nurture debate, right?

00:29:04.340 And so while certain things that are cultural can influence your ultimate intelligence, you

00:29:09.880 know, if you are, you know, born to, you know, brain surgeon parents, but you're raised

00:29:14.960 in a crack house, yeah, you're probably not going to be as smart as someone who is, you

00:29:18.620 know, born to more average parents who's raised by, you know, brain surgeons.

00:29:22.260 So yeah, of course, no one's denying, no one would ever deny that cultural and nurturing

00:29:27.380 aspects can affect someone's ultimate intelligence, but we can't dismiss the genetic aspect of

00:29:33.640 intelligence either.

00:29:34.180 So whether...

00:29:34.860 Sure.

00:29:35.160 So whether that is true or not, you don't think that there's any implication of that for

00:29:38.640 public policy in the U.S.?

00:29:41.960 No, I don't necessarily think so.

00:29:44.960 That's kind of a vague question.

00:29:46.060 I think that it does have an implication on...

00:29:46.960 Do you think that we ought to take into account the alleged racial differences in IQ or categorical

00:29:52.440 differences in IQ when we make public policy at the federal level or at the local level?

00:29:59.020 I don't think...

00:30:00.860 No, I don't think we should because I think it'd be unconstitutional, right?

00:30:03.840 I think there would be issues with discrimination.

00:30:05.820 And one of the failings of social science like this is that it is not uniform, right?

00:30:10.840 There are bell curves.

00:30:11.680 And when you understand the bell curve, you understand that there are, you know, a large

00:30:15.460 population in the middle, but there are, you know, 12.5% of the population that's on

00:30:19.500 that upper echelon and, you know, 12.5% that's on the lower echelon.

00:30:22.500 And so there is certainly crossover, right?

00:30:24.880 There are thousands, if not millions of people who are, you know, Hispanic and black in this

00:30:29.360 country who are smarter than Asian people. 0.82

00:30:31.480 That's...

00:30:31.720 And that's, of course, that's true.

00:30:33.000 Sure.

00:30:33.160 No one's going to debate that.

00:30:34.160 Do you agree with...

00:30:34.680 I think you're stating it well, and absolutely.

00:30:39.700 I also think there shouldn't be any public policy drawn from these social scientific studies.

00:30:45.060 But do you agree with the definition...

00:30:47.080 You know, the alt-right is such a vague term.

00:30:49.260 Hillary Clinton gave me the name for my panel, the panel of deplorables, when she lumped basically

00:30:53.760 all right-wingers in with this term.

00:30:56.020 It's been watered down to nothing.

00:30:57.640 Milo Yiannopoulos said he was in it, and then he isn't in it.

00:30:59.800 And then yada, yada, yada.

00:31:01.800 Some of the thought leaders that people have seemed to agree on of the alt-right, that

00:31:06.500 Milo put in his piece, for instance, Richard Spencer, Vox Dei, Jared Taylor, people who

00:31:11.560 came up with the term, who promote the term, they've given definitions of the alt-right

00:31:15.360 that are explicitly racial.

00:31:17.440 Do you agree that those are the definitions of the alt-right, or are Richard Spencer and

00:31:21.700 all those guys wrong?

00:31:23.840 I think that...

00:31:25.180 Well, I haven't read their definition, so I'm not going to latch on to one of them specifically

00:31:29.240 and agree to it, because I don't know what I'd be agreeing to.

00:31:31.480 Well, I can tell you what it is.

00:31:33.400 I'll read...

00:31:33.760 Vox Dei says...

00:31:35.080 Well, he gives 14 points, which, for those who have been in the dregs of the internet for

00:31:40.500 a while, know what the implication of that is.

00:31:42.940 But Vox Dei says, the alt-right does not believe in general supremacy of any race, nation,

00:31:48.800 people, or subspecies.

00:31:50.400 Interesting choice of words.

00:31:51.580 Agreed.

00:31:51.720 Every race, nation, people, and human subspecies has its own strengths and weaknesses and possesses

00:31:57.040 the right to dwell unmolested in the native culture it prefers.

00:32:00.820 It's anti-equalitarian. 0.73

00:32:02.640 It believes identity leads culture, which leads politics.

00:32:07.220 Richard Spencer says it's essentially about racial identity.

00:32:10.620 He had that kind of flashy, creepy video on his old version of alt-right.com, which has

00:32:15.740 changed.

00:32:16.180 Jared Spencer, or Jared Spencer, Jared Taylor, head of American Renaissance, also popularized

00:32:21.220 the term alt-right, says that it's explicitly about turning from conservatism to an alternative,

00:32:27.320 which is where the alt comes from, which is essentially a white identity movement.

00:32:32.740 Would you agree with any of those, or do you think those guys get the alt-right wrong?

00:32:36.840 Well, I think that you certainly...

00:32:38.920 I don't know.

00:32:39.580 I'm not going to agree to any of those.

00:32:40.740 I haven't really thought about that to a level where I can agree to that.

00:32:44.520 But what I will say is that I think it's important to understand that race is a real concept.

00:32:49.080 We can't be afraid of talking about race, as conservatives have for so long.

00:32:54.260 I think the problem that conservatives have, a lot of conservatives, I won't speak for all

00:32:57.420 of them, is that they've been so afraid to address differences in racial groups for the

00:33:02.020 longest time, and it's led to this almost paralysis where they're too afraid to even

00:33:05.460 address the topic.

00:33:06.640 And this is an area where the left has identified the problem, but they haven't identified the

00:33:12.660 right, so they've identified the absolute wrong solution, in my opinion.

00:33:15.680 You know, they've identified that different racial groups tend to have different interests.

00:33:21.120 And, you know, that doesn't speak for every individual, of course, but there tend to be

00:33:24.340 different interests for these different groups.

00:33:26.280 And so they've been able to exploit that for political gain.

00:33:30.340 You think of the Obama Coalition of the Ascendant, for example, is a fantastic example of that.

00:33:34.920 But what do you mean by different interests?

00:33:38.520 Because I do agree with you.

00:33:40.040 Conservatives are squeamish to talk about race because anytime they talk about taxes, they

00:33:44.660 get called a racist.

00:33:45.980 Ann Coulter once told me that when a liberal calls you a racist, you know you've won the

00:33:49.320 argument.

00:33:50.000 But there are legitimate racists out there as well.

00:33:53.520 You know, I don't want to be called a racist by the left because I'm not a racist.

00:33:58.620 It's not because I'm afraid of the left or something like that.

00:34:01.060 So what are those racial interests of those groups?

00:34:05.080 You say we're afraid to talk about race.

00:34:07.400 What should we be talking about with regard to race?

00:34:11.340 So I'll give you examples of those different interests.

00:34:13.900 For example, if you look at how Hispanics tend to vote in this country, Pew Research has

00:34:18.200 done fantastic research on all of this.

00:34:20.220 Hispanics will tend to vote because they come, when you think about this, they come generally

00:34:24.300 from societies with large governments.

00:34:26.700 They have a culture that is, they bring over a tradition of large government when they

00:34:31.200 emigrate here.

00:34:31.960 Hispanic immigrants will vote 70 to 30 for, they pull 70 to 30 for bigger government, 1.00

00:34:37.340 right?

00:34:37.600 When you ask them if they support bigger or smaller government, they say bigger government.

00:34:40.280 What about my Cubans, my favorite people in the world, the Cubans who gave us excellent

00:34:44.840 cigars and music and fled that bum Fidel Castro? 0.95

00:34:49.080 Those guys wrote, they vote about 100 to zero Republican.

00:34:52.620 And they come from the biggest government island that you could imagine.

00:34:55.780 Doesn't that fly in the face of those numbers?

00:34:59.700 Well, and you can always find an anecdote to disprove a trend.

00:35:02.660 I don't think a country is an anecdote.

00:35:04.380 I think Cuba is a pretty large number of people.

00:35:06.320 They swing Florida.

00:35:09.080 Sure.

00:35:09.560 And they vote, you know, 60, 40 for Republicans.

00:35:11.680 But when we're talking about Hispanics broadly, that's not the trend that exists.

00:35:15.000 The trend as research, and I'm not, I'm not making this up.

00:35:17.780 You can look at Pew Research and who is cited multiple times on the Daily Wire.

00:35:21.420 You can look at Pew Research and they will corroborate this, that Hispanics tended to go 70, 30 for bigger government. 0.87

00:35:28.060 Sure.

00:35:28.260 And I don't deny it, but it seems to me what you're talking about now is culture rather than race.

00:35:33.640 Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but it seems to me that race is a biological construct and that culture is a cultural construct, a social construct.

00:35:44.480 Is that wrong?

00:35:45.220 So if we're talking about big government, people coming from different areas and vote 70, 30 or 60, 40 or whatever, that seems to me not biological.

00:35:53.000 Are you suggesting that we need to talk about biological implications of different peoples or just cultural ones?

00:35:59.140 No.

00:35:59.940 Look, I don't want to get into the whole semantics of that.

00:36:02.480 All I'm telling you is that these are how, you know, these different immigrant groups vote.

00:36:05.760 But I'm not, I don't think it's, by the way, people should remember that semantics means meaning.

00:36:09.560 So when people say, well, that's just semantics, they mean to say it's just trivial, but there's a meaningful distinction.

00:36:14.540 That's the main distinction I'm asking about.

00:36:17.020 Are you only talking about culture or are you talking about race?

00:36:20.680 Because everything you've said is cultural.

00:36:22.080 And I agree.

00:36:22.760 We need to teach people from other cultures to vote for Republicans.

00:36:25.760 I think that should be priority number one.

00:36:28.100 But are we saying that-

00:36:29.240 Or close the borders and stop them from immigrating. 0.97

00:36:30.920 Sure.

00:36:31.300 There are plenty of good arguments for lower immigration, for building the wall.

00:36:34.920 Absolutely.

00:36:35.320 But are there any arguments explicitly about race, about the physical aspect, the biological aspect, or are you just talking cultural?

00:36:43.780 Well, Michael, I don't know why they vote the way they do.

00:36:45.820 I don't know why they vote for bigger government.

00:36:48.080 Do you think there might be a biological aspect to it?

00:36:51.560 No.

00:36:52.040 I don't think so.

00:36:52.720 I haven't seen any research.

00:36:53.960 No, I don't know.

00:36:54.600 Look, I don't know.

00:36:55.880 I don't think so.

00:36:56.480 I'm willing to bet.

00:36:57.160 I'd bet my $400 from Shapiro that there's no biological impetus to vote for a Republican, other than maybe a little more testosterone.

00:37:05.620 Who knows?

00:37:06.460 Who knows?

00:37:07.180 Do you-

00:37:07.480 Oh, yeah.

00:37:07.860 That's interesting.

00:37:08.640 They have done studies on that, yeah.

00:37:10.460 So, all right.

00:37:11.520 I think we've gone over this.

00:37:12.540 I've grilled you enough.

00:37:13.860 Do you-

00:37:14.540 You've been taken around on this whole thing.

00:37:18.500 You had to step down, I think, as the head of the Washington State Republicans.

00:37:21.740 Is that right?

00:37:23.440 I was not forced to do anything.

00:37:24.880 I was actually planning on doing that for weeks before.

00:37:27.480 Yeah, no, I wanted to let them start the year fresh.

00:37:30.320 We're starting school in a week.

00:37:31.360 I wanted to let them start without distraction-free.

00:37:34.700 Do you regret going to the event?

00:37:36.960 You've been hammered about this.

00:37:38.240 I think you've been rightly hammered about this, but I give a little grace to you because I understand that ideas can lead to ideas, and some of these guys are somewhat articulate, and it's easy to think the wrong thing sometimes.

00:37:51.700 Do you regret going?

00:37:52.800 Do you wish you hadn't done it?

00:37:54.880 No, not at all.

00:37:55.520 I think that it's important to provide media coverage of events like this that is going to be representative of the actual event.

00:38:02.960 When you look at the reports that came out from places like the New York Times or CNN or Fox News, they were latching on to one or two pictures of the guy with the swastika flag and saying, this is what the event is.

00:38:13.520 This is all the event is.

00:38:14.520 But James, all of the organizers were white identity advocates.

00:38:17.060 You'll grant that.

00:38:17.580 I'm not saying they're all Hitler youth.

00:38:18.920 I'm saying they all were advocating white identity. 0.97

00:38:21.020 There weren't organizers who came from any other branch of the right.

00:38:25.120 You will at least grant them that premise.

00:38:26.680 I don't think that's actually – that's not actually true.

00:38:30.280 Who were the other organizers?

00:38:31.160 Augustus Invictus who were there.

00:38:32.520 People like Augustus Invictus.

00:38:33.740 People like Christopher Cantwell.

00:38:35.040 These people are libertarians.

00:38:36.940 These people come from the libertarian – Augustus Invictus is a former and current candidate for the Senate as a libertarian in Florida.

00:38:45.460 There was a wide swath of people from the right wing invited there.

00:38:50.000 But I would also have to push –

00:38:51.300 Well, there were a lot who were invited.

00:38:52.440 I grant you there were a lot who were invited.

00:38:54.640 But even people who have played around with the all right, like Gavin, Gavin McGinnis, said, no, thank you.

00:38:59.100 I don't want a part of it.

00:39:00.580 But earlier on, you had granted to me that a major – a foundational part of this march and this rally was white identity.

00:39:10.600 Do you now disagree with that?

00:39:14.280 No.

00:39:14.640 No, I don't push back on that at all.

00:39:16.880 And I think that – but I disagree with the inherent assertion that that's a bad thing, right?

00:39:22.760 Because, again, we see these people all across the country organizing for black interests, organizing for black identity, for Hispanic identity, for Asian-American identity.

00:39:31.260 But we –

00:39:31.660 I don't see anything wrong.

00:39:32.880 We criticize them for doing that, don't we?

00:39:35.580 Maybe you do, but I don't.

00:39:36.580 You don't.

00:39:37.000 All right.

00:39:37.340 Maybe you can.

00:39:39.040 Look, I don't see anything wrong with finding a common cause with a community like that.

00:39:43.760 You think that race –

00:39:44.880 As long as you're not vile?

00:39:45.620 Do you think race as a category is a primary and important political grouping?

00:39:51.100 Do you think it's worth bringing more racial identity politics to the fore in America?

00:39:57.200 I don't – well, that's speaking in some kind of grand strategy context.

00:40:02.360 I don't know about all that.

00:40:04.400 But I do know that race is very important for a lot of people in this country.

00:40:08.720 It's very important for a lot of black people, very important for a lot of Hispanics, for a lot of Asians.

00:40:12.220 And it historically really hasn't been that important for white people.

00:40:14.680 But I think that is changing.

00:40:16.240 All of these anti-white attacks, these anti-white narratives going on in the media and in government, it's causing people to become conscious of their status as a white person, which is then leading them towards things like the alt-right.

00:40:27.900 I agree.

00:40:28.640 There has been a backlash.

00:40:29.940 The left started the fight on racial identity politics.

00:40:33.340 I think it's a very bad thing and ought to be opposed.

00:40:35.240 Perhaps you disagree with me on that.

00:40:37.640 But nevertheless, before we go, we've talked a lot.

00:40:42.820 In an ideal society, I'd agree with you.

00:40:44.500 I would agree with that ideal, right?

00:40:46.380 I would absolutely love for us to be able to drop identity politics and talk about the benefits of laissez-faire capitalism and the free market.

00:40:53.320 That would be fantastic.

00:40:54.240 But unfortunately, what we're seeing is that these people on the left are not going to take their foot off the gas. 0.94

00:40:59.540 You know, they're going to keep attacking white people, keep blaming white people, keep demonizing white people in this country as the root of all evil. 0.98

00:41:07.140 And I think that's silly. 0.98

00:41:08.620 And I think, unfortunately, that's going to lead to more and more of this type of stratification.

00:41:13.340 So I would love for us to be able to go back, you know, six years or whatever and talk about, you know, the intricacies of health care policy or something.

00:41:20.420 But that's really not what is being pushed by the left.

00:41:23.620 We're not even talking about it.

00:41:24.760 I don't think anybody ever wants to talk about the intricacies of health care policy or tax structures or whatever.

00:41:30.700 It's very boring.

00:41:31.980 It's always been a cultural battle.

00:41:34.140 There have always been cultural warriors.

00:41:36.480 And the primary motivator of that cultural war, especially on the right, has historically been the primary animator of the Western civilization that we say that we're going to defend, Christianity.

00:41:47.500 Christianity, it seems to me now that that is being substituted for white race. 0.77

00:41:52.700 And I think you would probably grant me that.

00:41:54.560 Do you think that's a good thing?

00:41:55.860 Do you think that's a necessary thing?

00:41:57.560 Do you think that that's something we should oppose for both practical and moral reasons, as I do?

00:42:04.240 Well, I think that I don't think they are necessarily different.

00:42:09.060 I think that when you look at something.

00:42:10.240 I think you've got to read your Bible, James.

00:42:11.700 I think I'm going to send you all those quotes that I compiled.

00:42:15.440 I would appreciate that.

00:42:16.700 Yeah, but I think when you see people arguing for a lot of this stuff, they're arguing for Christian civilization, right?

00:42:21.660 They're arguing for a continuance of Western Christian civilization.

00:42:24.500 They just don't practice Christianity.

00:42:25.800 But they do want Christian civilization.

00:42:27.520 I agree with you.

00:42:28.360 Some of them do.

00:42:30.420 Point them out to me.

00:42:31.300 Some of them do.

00:42:31.620 Like, I haven't taken a poll.

00:42:33.900 I didn't take a poll on everyone who's at Unite the Right on what their faith is.

00:42:37.000 I would be willing to bet, though, that the majority of them are probably Christians.

00:42:41.320 Well, we'd have to define our terms, but I would happily bet you my Shapiro check on that.

00:42:45.020 But we'll have to see.

00:42:46.980 We'll have to see about that.

00:42:48.620 James, it has been very nice having you.

00:42:50.920 Thank you for coming on.

00:42:51.860 I appreciate it.

00:42:52.920 And we will talk to you again in the future, I'm sure.

00:42:57.420 Great.

00:42:57.860 Thank you very much.

00:42:58.400 I appreciate it.

00:42:58.980 Thank you.

00:43:00.600 All right.

00:43:01.520 That was a long one.

00:43:02.660 We've got to introduce our panel of deplorables now.

00:43:04.980 We have – this is a brand new panel of deplorables.

00:43:06.920 We have, thank goodness, Amanda Presta Giacomo.

00:43:10.320 She is flanked by Josh Yasma and Aaron Bandler, both of the Daily Wire.

00:43:15.560 Guys, sorry to keep you so long.

00:43:17.260 Usually we have a fun covfefe show.

00:43:19.240 We have to talk about serious things.

00:43:20.880 Sign up.

00:43:21.740 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:43:22.520 We also have to say goodbye to Facebook and YouTube because James and I kept yapping for so, so long.

00:43:28.480 So thank you so much for everyone who is a subscriber.

00:43:31.660 If you're a subscriber, right now go over to dailywire.com and you'll be able to watch the rest, finally, this panel of deplorables.

00:43:37.980 And if you're not a subscriber, but subscribe, what are you waiting for?

00:43:41.040 Go over now, dailywire.com.

00:43:43.080 You'll get me, you'll get the Andrew Klavan show, you'll get the Ben Shapiro show, and the Leftist Tears Tumblr.

00:43:48.160 You can keep your leftist tears hot or cold, always salty and delicious.

00:43:52.060 Go there right now, dailywire.com.

00:44:01.660 All right.

00:44:06.480 We don't have to talk about this Charlottesville thing anymore, do we?

00:44:08.920 We've talked about it so much.

00:44:11.220 Let's get rid of it.

00:44:12.020 We have to move on to much more important news than the neo-Nazis attacks in the United States.

00:44:16.600 We have to talk about Donald Trump's tweeting.

00:44:19.620 Donald Trump's wonderful tweeting.

00:44:21.660 Kim Jong-un has backed away from a threatened missile strike on Guam, which President Trump hailed as a very wise and well-reasoned decision.

00:44:28.560 The alternative would have been both catastrophic and unacceptable, with an exclamation point, in true Trumpian fashion.

00:44:37.180 Josh, you're a foreign policy guy.

00:44:39.420 President Trump has received a lot of criticism for his comments in the lead-up to this.

00:44:43.600 The fire and fury, the world has never seen anything like this.

00:44:47.180 But did they work?

00:44:48.220 It seems like they worked.

00:44:49.600 Well, can I just say that I don't think it's a good idea to be so cavalier about tweeting national security and foreign policy concerns.

00:44:56.520 Why? It seems to have worked.

00:44:58.560 While the Trump hate it, it looks like they're not going to bomb Guam.

00:45:01.660 Well, what hasn't been covered is the fact that we have been negotiating with the North Koreans through a backdoor diplomatic channel.

00:45:09.940 Sure.

00:45:10.280 U.S. envoy for North Korea, Joseph Yoon, he's been talking to his North Korean counterpart.

00:45:16.460 And they've been kind of negotiating some sort of truce, or at least temporary truce.

00:45:24.380 So that hasn't been covered.

00:45:27.260 That's much less interesting than the tweets.

00:45:29.280 I know.

00:45:29.700 I don't think CNN is going to make an interview covering the back channels to Kim Jong-un.

00:45:36.980 Amanda, what do you think?

00:45:37.900 I don't think the tweeting hurt.

00:45:39.600 I think there was a lot of media hysteria over it.

00:45:41.840 This language is actually not unprecedented.

00:45:43.740 We saw Bill Clinton, Barack Obama say similar things.

00:45:46.520 Not on Twitter.

00:45:47.380 But they did say similar things.

00:45:49.100 So it wasn't as, you know, insane as people were making it out to be.

00:45:55.080 I don't think it hurt anything with North Korea.

00:45:57.440 I don't think they were going to do anything in Guam anyhow.

00:45:59.580 They know the United States can obliterate them.

00:46:02.180 I think that was just, you know, Kim Jong-un doing what he does, flexing his muscles.

00:46:07.860 He just doesn't want sushi.

00:46:08.640 I don't think he has a lot of muscles.

00:46:10.140 No.

00:46:10.280 I think it's all dough.

00:46:11.260 Yeah.

00:46:11.720 He's a doughy young man.

00:46:13.080 I said this like a week and a half ago, but I didn't think they were going to, they clearly

00:46:17.800 aren't going to do anything.

00:46:19.020 And we're working the diplomatic way.

00:46:21.820 But what Trump says on Twitter, I just, I don't think it had that big of an effect.

00:46:27.180 I don't think it hurt us, but it wasn't as extreme as the media made it out to be.

00:46:31.780 Did Trump win here despite himself or did he help himself, Aaron?

00:46:36.700 Well, I think that he actually did kind of help himself because I think that tough language

00:46:40.080 does help when it comes to dealing with the rogue maniacs like Kim Jong-un, you know,

00:46:44.500 because the biggest deterrent is strength.

00:46:46.640 You know, peace through strength, as Reagan always said.

00:46:48.760 And so I think that, I think that had Trump like not followed through on that threat,

00:46:54.500 had North Korea actually like attack bombshell like that, then it would have been bad. 0.53

00:46:58.020 But because he didn't have to and North Koreans backed off, it was like, okay, he talked tough 0.95

00:47:02.120 and Kim Jong-un backed down.

00:47:03.820 It's sort of like a stand.

00:47:04.880 It looks like a Trump win.

00:47:06.120 Either way.

00:47:06.660 It does look like a Trump win in that regard.

00:47:08.240 Yeah.

00:47:08.360 We'll have seen the future, like how that will play out with other rogue regimes like

00:47:12.660 Iran and Syria and so forth.

00:47:14.500 But for now, it seems like a win, yeah.

00:47:15.900 But there's this trouble that now, so we were all looking forward, we were going to blast

00:47:19.860 this guy off the face of the earth, right?

00:47:21.840 It was going to be a catastrophe because probably Seoul would have been destroyed.

00:47:25.840 Right.

00:47:26.320 But now we've saved Seoul, we've saved Guam, we've saved Los Angeles and my little studio.

00:47:31.700 But Kim is still in power.

00:47:34.140 So are we just kicking the can down the road, Josh?

00:47:36.500 Is there any hope for regime change?

00:47:38.640 Well, it's interesting you mentioned that.

00:47:41.240 General Mattis and Secretary of State Tillerson actually penned an op-ed in the Wall Street

00:47:45.340 Journal explicitly saying that there will be no regime change.

00:47:49.260 They wanted to make that clear.

00:47:51.240 So I think the Kim regime has to be dealt with, but it's not a good idea to deal with it right 0.99

00:47:56.780 now.

00:47:56.920 We have to deal with our immediate national security concerns and making sure that our

00:48:02.860 partners in the Pacific are taken care of.

00:48:06.840 And that includes proponing missile defense in the region.

00:48:10.060 That includes making sure that our bases have the resources and the money they need to function

00:48:19.040 properly.

00:48:19.560 But, you know, this has been the argument since the 90s, right?

00:48:22.980 Bill Clinton is the first president to deal with a real crisis in North Korea.

00:48:28.120 And luckily for him, Kim Il-sung dies and there are famines and he gets to kick the can

00:48:33.020 down the road.

00:48:33.800 President Bush obviously is dealing with other wars.

00:48:36.200 Meanwhile, North Korea shoots off missiles.

00:48:38.400 Mustn't this be dealt with at some point?

00:48:43.000 Well, Trump has been doing a good job at pressuring China. 0.78

00:48:45.420 And I think that's the key to this whole thing.

00:48:47.720 In the weeks leading up to the unprecedented UN sanctions on North Korea, which, you know,

00:48:56.160 sanctions up to a billion dollars worth of exports, coal, you know, North Korea's primary

00:49:01.080 exports, primarily to China.

00:49:03.540 China didn't veto that resolution, which is huge.

00:49:06.660 And the reason they didn't veto that is because the Trump administration pressured China and

00:49:12.780 said, if you veto that bill, we are going to place sanctions on Chinese banks, Chinese 0.98

00:49:19.040 banks that may or may not be doing business with North Korea.

00:49:22.560 So the Chinese were scared and they backed down.

00:49:24.560 That's the key to this whole thing.

00:49:26.080 We have to work with the framework in the region.

00:49:29.840 We have to work with partners in the region to pressure North Korea.

00:49:32.800 I mean, simply striking them, that's not going to get anywhere.

00:49:38.060 You know, Kim is still going to be in power and it's going to lead to, you know, this standoff. 1.00

00:49:42.840 So you're advocating the art of the deal.

00:49:45.540 You're an art of the deal proponent.

00:49:47.360 So am I.

00:49:48.160 We make the best deals, don't we, folks?

00:49:50.080 All right.

00:49:50.380 Enough about Kim.

00:49:51.740 We have to talk about, speaking of cartoonish evil, we have to talk about Iceland committing 0.69

00:49:56.920 a genocide against Down syndrome people.

00:49:58.440 This is from, I think, CBS, quote, with the rise of prenatal screening tests across Europe

00:50:03.980 and the United States, the number of babies born with Down syndrome has significantly

00:50:07.880 decreased, but few countries have come as close to eradicating Down syndrome births as

00:50:13.100 Iceland.

00:50:14.800 Eradicating Down syndrome births. 0.76

00:50:16.540 Amanda, has there ever been a more absurd euphemism for killing a lot of people?

00:50:20.980 Everything about abortion is cloaked in euphemism.

00:50:23.700 And this is particularly disgusting because they're framing this as a moral good, that

00:50:28.180 we're eradicating Down syndrome. 0.82

00:50:29.600 No, you murdered all the preborn babies who had Down syndrome.

00:50:33.480 That's not a scientific advancement.

00:50:35.700 They didn't cure it.

00:50:36.580 Right.

00:50:37.060 Right.

00:50:37.340 This is, I mean, it's interesting, too, because we just had this disgusting, I'm not, excuse 0.95

00:50:41.600 me, this is disgusting, these neo-Nazis in Charlottesville. 0.98

00:50:45.320 Vile stuff. 1.00

00:50:46.420 Okay.

00:50:47.320 You want to talk about Nazism? 0.61

00:50:49.120 What about this?

00:50:49.920 I mean, we're not going to say anything about eliminating human beings that you deem unworthy

00:50:53.940 of life?

00:50:55.240 The eugenic arguments that come out of the left on a daily basis. 0.95

00:50:58.520 Can we have the same extreme outrage over this as we did for those 200 losers who, of 0.98

00:51:04.040 course, there was a disgusting murder. 0.73

00:51:05.700 Again, I'm not downplaying that, but where is the outrage over this?

00:51:08.640 And again, this is happening in America, too.

00:51:10.540 This is not just some foreign thing that's going on.

00:51:13.000 This happens right in the United States every day.

00:51:15.460 Of course.

00:51:15.940 And, you know, the left all the time, they make these quality of life arguments when 0.98

00:51:19.880 they're talking about euthanasia or they're talking about a boring, mentally retarded 1.00

00:51:23.480 babies or Down syndrome.

00:51:25.640 Why?

00:51:27.020 Is there any argument for quality of life?

00:51:29.280 Do their arguments hold any sway or is it just sophistry?

00:51:32.840 It's just sophistry.

00:51:33.900 I mean, how can, what, who are they to say, like, what the best quality of life of somebody

00:51:37.900 is?

00:51:38.180 I think the person that's decided that is the person themselves or their family members

00:51:42.120 and so forth.

00:51:42.580 It's not for them to say.

00:51:43.660 I mean, it's really disgusting to say that somebody can't live a valedictus because they

00:51:48.200 have, like, Down syndrome or, like, triploidy or something.

00:51:51.340 And to add on to your point, in the United States, I think, like, 6% of abortions are done

00:51:55.480 because of, they found out they have those conditions like triploidy, Down syndrome, and

00:52:00.280 so forth.

00:52:00.960 And it's disgusting and it's very reminiscent of the eugenics movement in the early 1920s 0.97

00:52:05.280 of which Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, was a big supporter of and

00:52:09.800 so forth.

00:52:10.380 I mean, it really is evil.

00:52:11.980 It's like atheism, basically. 0.99

00:52:13.840 It's disgusting. 0.91

00:52:15.200 Well, with the advance, with the advance of these public policies and then with the advance

00:52:19.520 of designer babies, we're seeing new stories about that every day.

00:52:24.780 Will we eventually eliminate Down syndrome people?

00:52:27.780 Will we not see any more Down syndrome people? 1.00

00:52:29.720 So I think we have to draw a distinction between the abortion element and genetic engineering.

00:52:35.240 I don't think there's anything morally wrong with gene therapy, with correcting these issues

00:52:43.760 that, you know, that are going to put pressure on families.

00:52:48.420 I mean, we can't discount the financial cost, the emotional cost, all these things.

00:52:53.220 I mean, there is something to be said about the stressors involved with having children

00:52:59.800 with genetic disorders.

00:53:01.820 Like Down syndrome, would it be preferable if we could correct it in the womb or would

00:53:05.200 it not be preferable?

00:53:08.340 Or does it depend on the family?

00:53:10.020 Some families want to get rid of their kid and some embrace it.

00:53:13.280 Well, I think fundamentally parents have the right to know.

00:53:15.740 So I think arguments that are suggesting that, oh, if parents know, you know, they'll get rid

00:53:19.980 of the baby, that's 100% wrong.

00:53:21.960 They have a right to have a prenatal screening or something.

00:53:23.860 Yes, 100%.

00:53:24.840 They need to know what they're getting into.

00:53:27.300 And then, you know, the rest of the discussions are public policy discussions.

00:53:31.080 You know, I don't know about you, but we've been talking about a story right now that isn't

00:53:34.760 a tweet for far too long.

00:53:36.060 So I think we have to go back to tweets.

00:53:38.380 President Obama has now the most liked tweet in the history of tweeting.

00:53:44.620 This came in the wake of the terror attack in Charlottesville.

00:53:47.100 He quoted, no one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background

00:53:52.780 or his religion.

00:53:55.020 And I think that's a Nelson Mandela quote, isn't it?

00:53:57.620 So Amanda, is this because it's a poignant message or God help us, is there nostalgia for

00:54:03.840 Barack Obama?

00:54:05.460 Perhaps there's nostalgia for Barack Obama.

00:54:07.920 I don't see why.

00:54:09.600 I mean, it's interesting that he's the one coming out and saying this.

00:54:12.280 Under his administration, we saw endless identity politics.

00:54:15.700 He helped bolster and legitimize the Black Lives Matter movement.

00:54:18.920 He invited them to the White House.

00:54:20.540 All of this racial division was in part helped by President Barack Obama and his administration.

00:54:26.480 And now we're seeing this nasty reactionary stuff.

00:54:28.780 This is all, you know, of course, not 100 percent on President Obama.

00:54:32.400 But it's just interesting to see that he pushes this identity politic, you know, this implicit

00:54:37.280 bias that we all apparently have.

00:54:39.720 But then he quotes, he tweets that.

00:54:41.420 So which is it?

00:54:42.360 Am I inherently biased and racist because I'm white or am I not?

00:54:45.560 Am I taught that?

00:54:46.500 So it contradicts his message.

00:54:48.180 And it's just interesting that he helped promote this backlash and this and, you know,

00:54:53.080 racism on the left.

00:54:54.680 And now he's coming to save everyone.

00:54:57.020 It's just it's very interesting.

00:54:58.040 And it does raise a question, which is, is that quote correct?

00:55:02.260 Is it true that no one is born that way?

00:55:04.300 Is it that we only learn hatred or is it the case that we're all born sort of brutish and

00:55:09.340 we need to have it civilized out of us?

00:55:11.160 Josh, what do you think?

00:55:11.920 So we need to parse that out.

00:55:13.480 First of all, I don't want to parse anything.

00:55:14.900 You don't tell me what to parse on my show.

00:55:17.260 Go ahead.

00:55:18.560 You know, he's equating religion and race and ethnicity, which is, you know, fundamentally

00:55:23.440 that doesn't make sense.

00:55:24.240 And that's what both the alt-right and the far left do.

00:55:27.180 They're racializing Islam, Judaism, Christianity.

00:55:29.120 Great point.

00:55:29.820 Great point.

00:55:30.840 I think that religion has to be understood for what it is.

00:55:34.280 It's an idea.

00:55:35.080 It's an idea that's taught.

00:55:36.480 It's either true or untrue.

00:55:38.140 It's either beneficial or destructive.

00:55:40.940 100%.

00:55:41.180 And, you know, color of your skin, you're born white or you're born black or you're born 0.93

00:55:45.600 brown.

00:55:46.400 Some of us are born white, but because we're Sicilian, we lay out in the sun and then we,

00:55:50.580 just like Amanda and I, turn to the color of this brick wall.

00:55:53.760 You're glowing.

00:55:54.540 But I'm glowing.

00:55:55.580 I think you're glowing.

00:55:56.020 But that's the exception.

00:55:57.220 Right.

00:55:57.700 Right.

00:55:58.040 So religion is taught.

00:56:00.640 Race is not taught.

00:56:02.280 But ideas associated with race are taught.

00:56:05.320 But I think that there is, there's something fundamentally simplistic about what he's saying,

00:56:12.200 because I think human beings are predisposed to being attracted to people that look like

00:56:19.640 them.

00:56:20.060 I think there's a reason that a child-

00:56:21.700 I'm not sure about that.

00:56:22.580 You and I have a similar skin tone and I'm in no way attracted to you. 0.76

00:56:26.180 We have to move on, folks. 1.00

00:56:27.960 Yesterday, some idiot defaced the Lincoln Memorial with the words, F law. 1.00

00:56:32.940 And the left on Twitter thought it said, F Islam. 1.00

00:56:36.860 I don't know where they got that from.

00:56:38.580 But, you know, it does strike me right now is that everybody hates Abraham Lincoln.

00:56:42.220 Everybody is at the alt-right is attacking Abraham Lincoln.

00:56:45.260 The far left is attacking Abraham Lincoln.

00:56:47.200 These anarchists are attacking him.

00:56:49.880 Aaron, what is the deal?

00:56:52.000 Why are people being so mean to Honest Abe?

00:56:54.480 Leave Lincoln alone.

00:56:55.560 I think that it's- 0.89

00:56:57.120 One more respect, I think there's a lot more neoconferent crooks that have always hated Lincoln. 0.87

00:57:00.480 Now they're kind of coming out of the woodworks now with the rise of the alt-right and so forth.

00:57:03.920 I think with the far left and the anarchists, I think they just want to tear-

00:57:07.000 I think what all those groups have in common is they want to tear everything down.

00:57:10.720 And Lincoln's always been associated as, like, the one reviewed guy that everybody likes.

00:57:14.500 So it's almost, like, contrarian to, like, you know, say he's awful and stuff.

00:57:17.680 And obviously he's not.

00:57:18.860 I mean, he freed the slaves.

00:57:19.700 That's awesome.

00:57:20.860 And so he's always, like, number one or number two on a lot of, like, presidential lists in terms of, like, where he's ranked.

00:57:26.340 And it's probably-

00:57:27.160 Obama's number one.

00:57:27.580 Yeah, except for, yeah, Obama would break himself number one.

00:57:30.340 And Trump would break himself number one, too, probably.

00:57:33.660 But that's why I think there's so much hate towards him right now.

00:57:40.200 That's interesting.

00:57:41.040 That might well be the case.

00:57:42.380 Amanda, any thoughts?

00:57:43.620 Yeah, no, I don't think-

00:57:44.940 I kind of agree with Erin.

00:57:45.780 I don't think the Republicans-

00:57:46.980 I think Republicans want ownership of President Lincoln.

00:57:49.560 I don't think there's hate, because I don't associate Republicans with the alt-right.

00:57:52.800 I think that's a different sex.

00:57:53.700 So I don't think Republicans are distancing themselves from Abraham Lincoln.

00:57:58.340 I see it on the far left, as Erin was saying, and from the alt-right.

00:58:01.740 Sure.

00:58:02.280 All right.

00:58:02.760 Speaking of the alt-right, well, I've got to say goodbye to my panel of deplorables.

00:58:05.600 We're not going to do a final thought today.

00:58:07.240 I'll just give a final sentence.

00:58:09.500 It seems to me that there are, for people like my guest, James Alsup, and for other people who are being attracted to some of these alt-righty ideas, these alt-righty personalities online, it seems subversive.

00:58:20.340 They seem quasi-articulate, quasi-intelligent, and it seems fun with all the memes and everything.

00:58:27.300 I would just say, look past the surface.

00:58:30.360 If you scratch these guys below the skin, you are not going to find any substance whatsoever.

00:58:35.700 They say they defend Western civilization.

00:58:37.620 They don't know a thing about Western culture.

00:58:39.100 They don't practice the thing that animates Western culture.

00:58:43.680 And if you, like the rest of us, do want to defend Western culture and do want to advance it, then read a book, man.

00:58:49.440 Read something about it.

00:58:50.660 Learn about your own culture and practice the thing that made it so important, those values that we see embodied in our United States Constitution.

00:58:59.580 And on that, I will see you all tomorrow.

00:59:02.720 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:59:03.260 This is The Michael Knowles Show.

00:59:04.280 Come back tomorrow.

00:59:05.120 We'll do it again.

00:59:05.640 We'll see you all tomorrow.

The Michael Knowles Show - August 16, 2017

Ep. 11 - ＂Unite The Right＂ Speaker James Allsup Talks Charlottesville

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