In this episode of the Michael Knowles Show, host Michael Kinsley is joined by Tucker Carlson and former Vice Presidential candidate Mike Pence to discuss a variety of topics, including the Ukraine crisis, the new Disney movie about Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, and how pop culture has become entirely predictable.
00:10:52.060Now, as Biden wants to escalate the war in Ukraine, as Mike Pence gets caught, apparently seeming like
00:10:58.920he hears more about Ukraine than the U.S., even though I think that's sort of an unfair reading,
00:11:01.920as this becomes a major wedge issue, Donald Trump is being held out as the guy who doesn't want war,
00:11:09.340doesn't want to increase tensions in Ukraine. And yet, right now, they got him. Trump's critics
00:11:15.360on the right are pointing out that in a recent interview with Maria Bartiromo, Trump praised
00:11:20.900Ukrainian leader Vladimir Zelensky and said that he would give Ukraine even more weapons. So you're
00:11:27.120seeing this, especially from people who are working, either working directly for or practically
00:11:32.200speaking, working for the DeSantis campaign among the right wing commentariat. They're attacking Trump
00:11:37.020and they're saying Donald Trump wants to increase the U.S. donations of munitions and arms and tanks
00:11:43.940to Ukraine, wants to increase that war. He's a neocon. He's for a forever war. He's for foreign
00:11:49.860adventurism. And it's just B.S. Here is the full exchange.
00:11:55.940You said you could end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours. Yes. How would you do that?
00:12:01.020I know Zelensky very well. I felt he was very honorable because when they asked him about the
00:12:06.080perfect phone call that I made, he said it was indeed perfect. He said it was. He didn't even
00:12:10.580know what they were talking about. He could have grandstanded. Oh, I felt threatened. Well,
00:12:14.120that's not going to be enough for Putin to stop bombing. No, no, no, no. I'm not saying that.
00:12:17.420I, what I'm saying is that I know Zelensky very well and I know Putin very well, even better.
00:12:23.020And I had a good relationship, very good with both of them. I would tell Zelensky,
00:12:28.220no more. You got to make a deal. I would tell Putin, if you don't make a deal, we're going to
00:12:33.660give him a lot. We're going to give more than they ever got if we have to. I will have the deal done
00:12:38.580in one day, one day. So you see what they're doing. The people who hate Trump
00:12:44.580on the right, they're only clipping out that last part. And they're saying, oh, I'm going to
00:12:50.120give Zelensky more than he's ever gotten. They clip out the first part and the last part. He's a
00:12:54.200very honorable man and I'm going to give him more than he's ever gotten. And they're going to make
00:12:57.900him sound like he's, you know, Lindsey Graham 2.0 or something. But they're missing that middle
00:13:03.340part, which is the most crucial aspect where he says, I would tell Zelensky to make a deal.
00:13:08.100The reason that the war in Ukraine is still going on is because the Biden administration and the
00:13:15.360liberal establishment wants it to go on. And so they're not encouraging diplomacy at all.
00:13:20.980They're bolstering this insane idea that they're going to rout every single Russian troop from every
00:13:25.180part of Ukraine, including Crimea. It's never going to happen. And so the liberal establishment
00:13:30.820keeps pushing that. Trump says, why does he flatter Zelensky? Because he wants to have influence
00:13:37.780with Zelensky. Says he and I got along great. Oh, he's a good guy. And I'm going to tell him,
00:13:43.600sit down, come to the table, give up your most ambitious goals, sit down and make a deal with
00:13:49.980Putin. And then look, I've got a great relationship with Putin and I'm going to tell him to come to
00:13:53.620the table. But the leverage he's going to have on Putin is he's going to say, and if Putin won't
00:13:57.120come to the table, I'm going to arm Zelensky to the hilt. Maybe you like Trump. Maybe you hate Trump.
00:14:02.520Maybe you think Trump is good at making the art of the deal. Maybe you think he's a terrible
00:14:05.960negotiator and he's just a bragger and a blowharder. Whatever you think about him.
00:14:09.620But it is completely disingenuous to say that Trump is calling for an escalation of the war
00:14:14.880in Ukraine. That is the exact opposite of what he is saying. And I actually had forgotten that this is
00:14:21.140how presidential primaries are, is that people tend to dig in and they pick a candidate, even among the
00:14:28.120commentariat, even among the journalists, they pick a candidate and they decide that this is going to be
00:14:32.460my candidate, ride or die. And they will sometimes even be dishonest and disingenuous about what the
00:14:37.040other candidates have said. And I've told you from the beginning, I think I might be alone in the
00:14:42.640right wing commentariat to say, I am not working for a campaign. I am not going to endorse in a primary,
00:14:49.120or at least I'm going to do my level best not to endorse in a primary. So I'm going to call it like
00:14:52.800I see it. And if that means that I'm going to defend Mike Pence sometimes, even if that's, I'm going to do it.
00:14:57.420And if that means I'm going to defend Donald Trump sometimes, I'm going to do it.
00:15:00.460And if that means I'm going to defend Ron DeSantis sometimes, I'm going to do it. And all the other
00:15:04.880guys too. There are a lot more people that Tucker really exposed for better and worse, which we'll
00:15:11.140get to in one second. First though, speaking of Russia, I'm glad somebody listened to my CPAC
00:15:15.580speech. I'm glad that there were some politicians in the world who were listening to my CPAC speech,
00:15:22.280which called not just to raise the age at which you can trans the kids, which called not just to maybe
00:15:27.620more tightly regulate puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones, but which said that for the
00:15:32.640good of society and especially for the good of the poor individuals who have fallen prey to this
00:15:35.700confusion, transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely. The whole preposterous
00:15:41.920ideology at every level. Some politicians are implementing that. And I'm sorry to say it's not
00:15:49.240our politicians here in America. It's not even the politicians in the West broadly. It's the Russian
00:15:54.400Duma. The Russians just passed draft legislation banning gender change. State Duma authorities added
00:16:03.180provisions to the bill, proved on Thursday to ban transgender people from adopting or fostering
00:16:09.440children to annul their marriages if one of the couples subsequently changes gender and that will
00:16:15.560prohibit the transgender procedures broadly. It's very sad to me when our geopolitical opponents,
00:16:29.200some of whom have dabbled in really bad ideas throughout history, have greater moral clarity than
00:16:34.400we do. The science, such as it is, is very clear. The transgender transition helps nobody. The whole
00:16:44.200argument for the transgender transition is that some people are confused about their sex and they
00:16:50.320have high rates of anxiety, depression, and suicidality. They have a suicide attempt rate of
00:16:55.840about 41%. So the argument is we need to let them chop up their bodies and mutilate themselves. We need
00:17:00.100to castrate children in order to ameliorate that. And the fact is, even if you're just looking at the
00:17:04.560science, it doesn't achieve that at all. The suicide rate is basically exactly the same post-transition,
00:17:11.580surgical, hormonal, all the rest of it, as it is beforehand. The transgender transition does not
00:17:19.000help anxiety or depression or suicidality. In fact, the largest data set we have on this question
00:17:25.100shows that it actually makes at least one of those categories, anxiety, worse. It's bad. But we don't
00:17:32.760need the science and we don't need a bunch of studies to know that because we can know, we can deduce,
00:17:37.760just using our faculties of reason, that men and women are different and men can't become women and
00:17:42.740women can't become men. And we can also know that lies are very cruel and will alienate you and isolate
00:17:49.900you from reality and make you deeply unhappy. And the truth will set you free. That's the thing we
00:17:54.200can know. We don't need a microscope to know that. You can just use your faculties of reason and your
00:17:58.040moral conscience. So this is obviously very wrong. You know the tree by its fruit. Every fruit of the
00:18:04.980transgender movement has been absolutely evil and wicked and misery making. And now not only are we
00:18:11.460allowing poor adults to follow mental illness and spiritual darkness into these terrible places, but
00:18:17.780now we're foisting this on children as well. Really, really young children, prepubescent children. And it's
00:18:22.860just absolutely ghastly and evil and is a national shame. It is a civilizational shame that we here in the
00:18:29.440United States, we're supposed to be the good guys. We here in the West, we're supposed to be the good
00:18:33.280guys. We're castrating little kids and condemning them to a life that will very plausibly end in
00:18:39.560suicide. While the Russians, they're supposed to be the bad guys. Remember, until the early 90s,
00:18:44.320they were communists, godless, evil communists. Well, these guys are the ones who are saying, no,
00:18:49.260we're not going to condemn people to this miserable, awful fate. And we're not going to enshrine
00:18:54.620decadence and depravity and falsehood and lies and wickedness as a national policy, okay? And it's really,
00:19:03.780really sad. And it's a great national disgrace. And it requires a little bit of introspection here.
00:19:09.500Because I want us to be the good guys. But to be the good guys, we got to stop doing bad stuff. We got to
00:19:14.360stop killing 800,000 babies a year. That's really bad. History is not going to look kindly on us for doing
00:19:20.500that. Turning poor little kids into eunuchs. That's really bad. History is not going to look
00:19:26.080kindly on us. Enshrining sexual decadence as the greatest and actually sole moral good in our
00:19:32.400culture. That's really bad. There's a lot of bad stuff in Russia too. But on this particular issue,
00:19:41.580the Russians have it right. And we in America, we've become so confident in our moral superiority
00:19:49.080over those awful evil Russians or the Chinese or whoever that we lose sight of that. Because when
00:19:55.520we become very confident in that moral superiority, we fall into the sin of pride, which is the queen
00:20:00.580of all vice. We just had a month literally celebrating pride. And pride goes before destruction
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00:21:32.320Speaking of national humiliations, Kamala Harris, I guess I could just end it there. Speaking of
00:21:38.780national humiliations, Kamala Harris, she just gave a speech in which she committed a gaffe.
00:21:47.320And a gaffe, most people think a gaffe is when a politician accidentally says something that he
00:21:52.300doesn't mean to say. A gaffe is actually when a politician accidentally tells the truth. And
00:21:58.240that's what happened here when Kamala Harris accidentally articulated the ultimate goal
00:22:04.720of so many leftist policies. Think about the impact on something like public health.
00:22:10.680When we invest in clean energy and electric vehicles and reduce population,
00:22:16.520more of our children can breathe clean air and drink clean water.
00:22:22.960What was that? Hold on. Oh, I said we were going to drink clean air and have, no, no, no, before that.
00:22:28.800Oh, we were going to have clean water. No, hold on. I think it was after that. Where was that? Can we
00:22:31.780play that again, please? Think about the impact on something like public health.
00:22:36.560When we invest in clean energy and electric vehicles and reduce population.
00:22:42.040Hold on. Okay. There we go. We got it. We got it. Reduce population.
00:22:50.000She opens up, she says, think about the effect on public health. And then as part of public health,
00:22:58.400she suggests we reduce the population. Reducing the population means killing people.
00:23:07.780Or at the very, the most charitable way you could read that is sterilizing people,
00:23:14.480getting people not to have kids, whether physically or just culturally. That's what they want. They
00:23:21.220really do want to reduce the population. And they've, they've said it sometimes overtly,
00:23:25.220sometimes only implicitly. This has been true since Margaret Sanger and the birth control movement.
00:23:30.640It's been true since the most radical forms of liberalism. And it's really been true since the
00:23:37.380Garden of Eden because the devil and the principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness
00:23:41.580in high places that controls this world really doesn't like people. And so all these left-wing policies
00:23:47.120keep coming down to the same point, which is reducing population, which is killing human beings.
00:23:53.020Isn't that weird? Shouldn't that make you scratch your head if you're a liberal? You say, wait,
00:23:58.440all of these, all of these policies, abortion, the encouragement of deviant sexual behaviors,
00:24:05.680sterilization, euthanasia, so-called, the planned parenthood, contraception, on and on and on,
00:24:16.320all for supposedly different purposes, for women's freedom, for climate protection, for compassion for
00:24:27.720the elderly and the sick, for this, for that. They totally changed the justification, but the end
00:24:32.280result is always the same, killing people. Shouldn't that give you pause? You say, hold on,
00:24:37.660the practical effect of all of my policies is killing people, no matter what the justification is.
00:24:46.000Maybe we're the baddies. Maybe, are we potentially the baddies? When you look around the world and you
00:24:52.160say, wow, the vast majority of the world doesn't kill anywhere near as many babies as we do, and they
00:24:57.600don't permit killing babies as late in the game as we do. In fact, the countries with the most radical
00:25:03.800abortion policies are America, Canada, sorry to say, China, and North Korea, which are not great
00:25:11.260regimes. So are we, are we the baddies? Are we on the wrong side of this issue? Russia, which is a
00:25:16.940place with all sorts of problems that has done all sorts of bad things, they're not chopping off little
00:25:21.580kids' body parts. They're actually banning that. We're promoting that. Are we, on this particular issue,
00:25:27.500are we perhaps the baddies? Are we, if our motivating drive here is to reduce the population,
00:25:40.660then the whole point of statecraft is so that people can flourish. It's to pursue the good and
00:25:45.460to avoid evil and to allow people to live happy lives, which is articulated in our Declaration of
00:25:51.660Independence. Life, liberty, and sometimes the classical liberals, they'll, they want to rewrite the
00:25:57.020Declaration of Independence as John Locke articulated this phrase, and they'll say that we're here for
00:26:02.700life, liberty, and property. That's, that's not it. That's not what Jefferson wrote. That's not what
00:26:07.600the founding fathers wrote. They said life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, which refers to a
00:26:12.200more classical conception of statecraft, which is the common good. What is law? The classical conception
00:26:18.620of the law is that law is an ordinance of reason for the common good by him who has care of the
00:26:24.320community and promulgated. It's not good to kill people. That doesn't, that doesn't help people's
00:26:31.120good. And that's what they want. Now, speaking of, did you know that over 85% of grass-fed beef sold
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00:27:08.500DAILYWIRE. Good Ranchers, American meat delivered. Killing people. Speaking of Democrats making gaffes,
00:27:15.740RFK Jr. just got in a lot of trouble for a conversation that appears to have been secretly recorded
00:27:22.580at some kind of a donor political event in which he discusses one theory about COVID.
00:27:31.020We have put hundreds of millions of dollars into ethnically targeted microbes. The Chinese have
00:27:39.100done the same thing. In fact, COVID-19, there's an argument that it is ethnically targeted. COVID-19
00:27:47.860attacks certain races disproportionately. The races that are most immune to COVID-19 are because
00:27:59.860of the structure of the genetic structure or genetic differentials among different races of the receptors,
00:28:11.620of the ACE2 receptor. COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and black people. The people who are most
00:28:25.620immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese. We don't know whether it was deliberately targeted that or not, but there are papers out there that show the racial and ethnic differential
00:28:39.620impact. That's pretty crazy, huh? That's pretty wild. The idea that COVID could discriminate by race and that COVID would most target white and black people. And the groups that are least susceptible to COVID would be Chinese and Ashkenazi Jews. That seems totally crazy, right?
00:29:01.420And as everybody was yelling and calling RFK a kook and a nut and an anti-Semite, before I addressed any of that, I thought, well, let me just Google and see if any of this is true.
00:29:14.520And then I pulled up this paper. This is a paper that was published in BMC Medicine. It's a real medical journal. This is from people at the Cleveland Clinic. This is people at Columbia University. So these are serious scientists and scholars. The headline is new insights into genetic susceptibility of COVID-19 and ACE2 and TMPR SS2 polymorphism analysis.
00:29:41.620So ACE2, I guess that's referring to what Bobby Kennedy Jr. was talking about here. And then we've got some numbers here. The background here, the analysis across the different groups, across the different populations. And it finds, well, exactly what he's talking about.
00:30:03.360It says that for African-Americans and for white people, the risk is much higher. And for East Asians, the risk is relatively lower. And for Ashkenazi Jews, the risk is the lowest among any of those groups.
00:30:21.740Okay. So that part is true. Now, there's a flip side to this. I said, so hold on, you're telling me that COVID doesn't affect Jews?
00:30:29.640I Googled that. I said, that doesn't sound right. And then I find another study that is from another medical journal and says there's elevated Jewish mortality from coronavirus in England and Wales, an epidemiological and demographic detective story.
00:30:42.840So you got the one study, it says because of this ACE2 receptor, whatever the hell it is, you've got very low Jewish, Ashkenazi Jewish susceptibility to the virus.
00:30:53.260And then this other study, it says you've got elevated mortality. So what does this mean? How the hell should I know? I majored in history and Italian literature. I don't know what an ACE2 receptor is. I don't even really believe scientific studies.
00:31:07.480I don't, do I think that Bobby Kennedy Jr. hates the Jews or Chinese? I don't know why they didn't say he was, wasn't anti-Chinese racist or something like that. But I don't know. Is he, do I think that? No, I don't really think that. He's sort of an eccentric guy.
00:31:21.600You know what I do think though? The only thing I can conclude from this whole episode is I don't know anything about the COVID science or whatever. You know, the main takeaway here for me is that the media are going to treat Bobby Kennedy Jr. as a Republican.
00:31:39.440Because this whole episode has nothing to do with the papers, the people who are calling him a complete maniac and a racist and a this and a that. They don't even point out he's referring to a real scientific study that's been out for a few years.
00:31:54.180They don't engage in that study. They're not raising studies that might perhaps question those results. It has nothing to do with that at all. They don't care what he said.
00:32:00.900They're just going to call him a racist because that's what the libs do to conservatives when conservatives are in public life.
00:32:07.540So Bobby Kennedy Jr., who is a Kennedy, who is from the most prominent Democrat family in the country right now, because he is questioning the liberal establishment, because he's going up against Biden in this presidential race, he is going to be treated as a Republican.
00:32:21.980He is going to be treated as a Republican. He is going to be a Republican. He is going to be a racist. Doesn't matter what he says. Doesn't matter what he means. Doesn't matter what studies he cites.
00:32:33.960The COVID stuff doesn't even matter. Increasingly, this guy, he could talk about tax policy. He could talk about Ukraine. He could talk about anything.
00:32:42.980They will treat him that way, and it will probably work. Right now, Bobby Kennedy seems to have maxed out his support at 17 to 19 percent. Hard to imagine that the establishment lets him get any higher than that.
00:32:57.160Now, speaking of the 2024 election, CNN is reporting that Joe Biden is not actually running for re-election.
00:33:04.840CNN reports that top Democrats and donors have reached out to, quote, possible replacements for Joe Biden and had conversations about them getting in the race as Joe Biden struggles for the White House.
00:33:19.580What does this mean? This is, I had the same reaction to the CNN report as I had to the viral moment of Bobby Kennedy talking about genetic susceptibility to the coronavirus,
00:33:32.420which is the story is not the story itself. The story is the way that it's playing out in the media.
00:33:41.260I don't trust CNN on anything. So do I trust that Biden's not running? No, I think Biden probably does want to run for president. I don't trust that report.
00:33:48.660What I now know from the CNN story is that top Democrats and the media and the liberal establishment do not want Biden to run.
00:33:57.960And the reason they don't want Biden to run is not because he's extremely old and incompetent and has wind blowing through his ears.
00:34:03.780That's been true for 50 years of Joe Biden's politics, at least the fact that he wasn't always the sharpest tool in the shed.
00:34:10.360And they already knew that he was elderly when he ran the first time. That's not it.
00:34:14.580The reason that they don't want him to run for re-election is because right now he's probably going to lose.
00:34:19.200At least if the election is fair, at least there's a good shot that he loses.
00:34:24.400And what does that mean? That means that contrary to what you've been hearing from a lot of the media reports,
00:34:30.060that there's no way that Donald Trump could ever possibly beat Joe Biden.
00:34:34.160The liberal media clearly think that Donald Trump could beat Joe Biden.
00:34:37.620Because right now Donald Trump is overwhelmingly likely to get the GOP nomination.
00:34:41.000So if they felt that Biden could beat Trump, walk away with it, then they would make Biden the nominee.
00:34:46.140And then he would quietly go off into the sunset after he won re-election.
00:34:50.080I suspect they also think that Ron DeSantis could beat Joe Biden.
00:34:53.400But my takeaway here is they fear that the likely GOP nominee, the one who's up 30 points in the polls,
00:36:22.760Including and especially fingerprints on dime bags of the old Colombian nose candy found in the West Wing.
00:36:31.520Speaking of presidential politics, back to that candidate forum.
00:36:36.160Tucker really did a number on Mike Pence.
00:36:40.080He may have gone even harder on a candidate polling even lower.
00:36:46.640That would be former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson.
00:36:50.000This is a permanent change we are making to a child.
00:36:53.380Why would we allow that if we don't allow surgery?
00:36:55.500Well, permanent change is one issue, but also hormonal treatment is a different issue and can be a different issue.
00:37:04.740And whenever you look at the bill that I vetoed, there was not any grandfather clause in there.
00:37:10.140Again, I respect legislators that have a different view, but I think independently.
00:37:15.420I think of the parents, I think of the Constitution, and actually the court, if you read the decision of the federal judge that struck it down as unconstitutional, really sided with parents as well.
00:37:52.760Well, this is one of the biggest issues in the country, and I think every person in this room would agree that it is a central issue because these are children.
00:38:04.180Tucker hits the nail on the head here.
00:38:07.000In the whole framing of the question, he says, why do you support this treatment?
00:38:11.700And Asa Hutchinson tries to avoid moral reasoning.
00:38:15.760He says, well, look, Tucker, I just don't think that we need to be interfering in treatment.
00:38:22.760And Tucker points out, he says, no, no, no.
00:38:25.520Asa, the question is, is this treatment or not?
00:38:31.320If a man really could become a woman, and if some kids are actually born in the wrong body or whatever that means, and if you could then chop them up and then put them in the right body or whatever, I guess that would be treatment.