The Michael Knowles Show - Ep. 1760 - Fallout From Iran： Regime Change？

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00:00:30.600 President Trump launched a major attack over the weekend.

00:00:33.220 I'm sure you've all seen it by now.

00:00:35.180 It has reopened old wounds

00:00:36.840 and threatens to plunge us into all-out war.

00:00:41.140 But President Trump's fight

00:00:42.460 with Congressman Thomas Massey

00:00:43.840 is not the only news story.

00:00:45.700 We also bombed Iran. 1.00

00:00:47.480 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:00:48.180 This is The Michael Knowles Show.

00:00:58.340 Welcome back to the show.

00:01:09.360 Was Jojo Siwa pressured to be a lesbian? 0.98

00:01:13.100 That is what she's claiming.

00:01:15.380 This legitimately upends

00:01:18.320 the anthropology that we've been given

00:01:20.300 by the pro-LGBT side.

00:01:22.120 Can you be pressured into being a lesbian? 1.00

00:01:24.540 Some have noticed that I bear a striking resemblance

00:01:28.500 to Rachel Maddow.

00:01:29.420 Maybe I have some special insight into this.

00:01:31.560 I have many more pearls of wisdom to cast before you.

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00:02:28.320 Anything happen over the weekend?

00:02:30.560 Did you know something happened?

00:02:32.720 Because Mr. Davies and I

00:02:34.320 were in this studio

00:02:36.500 until the wee small hours.

00:02:39.500 We were here until, what,

00:02:40.400 11 p.m. midnight on Saturday

00:02:44.460 when President Trump announced

00:02:46.280 that he'd bombed Iran.

00:02:48.000 So I was giving my little toddlers a shower.

00:02:52.280 So this is nice.

00:02:53.200 Have a glass of wine.

00:02:54.380 Had a nice dinner.

00:02:55.440 Go to sleep.

00:02:56.160 And I just happened to be looking

00:02:57.740 and I saw this post from Trump.

00:03:00.700 Just as it happened.

00:03:01.720 Minutes after it happened.

00:03:03.080 We have completed our very successful attack

00:03:04.760 on the three nuclear sites in Iran,

00:03:06.220 including Fordow, Natanz, and Esfahan.

00:03:08.680 All planes are now outside of Iran airspace.

00:03:11.060 A full payload of bombs was dropped

00:03:13.000 on the primary site, Fordow.

00:03:14.880 All planes are safely on their way home.

00:03:17.000 Congratulations to our great American warriors.

00:03:19.560 There is not another military in the world

00:03:21.340 that could have done this.

00:03:22.680 Now is the time for peace.

00:03:24.240 Thank you for your attention to this matter.

00:03:26.000 Love, thank you for your attention to this matter.

00:03:29.260 Two phrases were capitalized here.

00:03:31.640 Bombs and now is the time for peace.

00:03:36.640 Both capitalized there.

00:03:38.120 Then Trump came out and gave these remarks that evening.

00:03:42.940 And I want to just thank everybody.

00:03:44.680 And in particular, God, I want to just say,

00:03:49.800 we love you, God, and we love our great military.

00:03:52.160 Protect them.

00:03:53.720 God bless the Middle East.

00:03:55.880 God bless Israel and God bless America.

00:03:59.000 Thank you very much.

00:04:00.580 This was a notable remark.

00:04:03.920 So the whole little speech was 10 minutes

00:04:07.080 or something like that.

00:04:07.660 It was very, very short, very un-Trumpian.

00:04:10.620 It was also un-Trumpian that he walked out there

00:04:13.180 with a bunch of guys behind him.

00:04:15.280 It wasn't just him alone.

00:04:17.260 It was all me.

00:04:18.080 It was all, I mean, he was standing there

00:04:19.980 with J.D. Vance, vice president,

00:04:22.420 secretary of state Rubio,

00:04:23.880 and Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense,

00:04:26.420 who were there not only for their roles in the government.

00:04:30.960 It's kind of odd for the vice president to be there.

00:04:33.080 The vice president in many administrations

00:04:35.720 doesn't do very much.

00:04:37.760 That's been an American tradition

00:04:39.040 going back to Washington and Adams.

00:04:42.440 So why was Vance there?

00:04:44.180 Vance does take a much more active role

00:04:46.240 in this administration than many,

00:04:47.560 many of his predecessors.

00:04:48.880 Why was Vance there?

00:04:49.660 Why was the secretary of state there?

00:04:51.400 Dropping bombs on Iran was not exactly diplomacy.

00:04:53.840 What's the nation's top diplomat doing there?

00:04:57.620 The secretary of defense makes a little bit more sense,

00:04:59.520 but why didn't you have the chairman

00:05:00.660 of the Joint Chiefs?

00:05:03.020 What was that about?

00:05:04.120 I think this was about showing unity

00:05:06.140 because President Trump knows

00:05:09.420 that this issue, perhaps uniquely in his administration,

00:05:14.100 threatens to divide his base

00:05:15.320 because the MAGA base wants two things

00:05:21.500 and the two things are in conflict.

00:05:22.980 The MAGA base overwhelmingly

00:05:24.220 does not want Iran to have a nuclear weapon

00:05:26.460 and overwhelmingly does not want to get bogged down

00:05:29.140 in another war in the Middle East.

00:05:31.260 And there is a tension.

00:05:32.300 I'm not saying they're totally contradictory,

00:05:34.200 but there's a tension between those two things.

00:05:35.540 And so Trump, I think, brought out Vice President Vance,

00:05:39.380 who, according to reports,

00:05:40.680 has been more skeptical of intervention in Iran.

00:05:43.180 And Rubio, who's a little bit in the middle,

00:05:47.060 Pete Hegseth, who has been a little bit more hawkish on Iran,

00:05:50.720 he's bringing them all out to say,

00:05:52.280 my administration is unified.

00:05:53.980 And Trump is very good at this.

00:05:55.340 He's very good at pulling together coalitions of people

00:05:57.460 who seem to have contrary views.

00:05:59.600 The protectionists and the free traders,

00:06:02.320 the culture warriors in the Chamber of Commerce,

00:06:04.720 he's done a pretty good job of bringing them all together.

00:06:06.760 But notice in that statement there,

00:06:08.500 we want to thank you, God.

00:06:10.280 I love that.

00:06:10.860 But he seems like he's speaking a little more extemporaneously.

00:06:15.680 These were meticulously crafted remarks.

00:06:17.960 Here, he kind of loses the poise a little bit.

00:06:21.800 And it's good.

00:06:22.920 It's good to thank God.

00:06:23.960 We love you, God.

00:06:24.600 Pray to God.

00:06:25.240 Because I think President Trump realized

00:06:26.760 this is a precarious moment.

00:06:29.320 The constant bravado that he displays,

00:06:32.940 I think there's a little crack in that bravado here.

00:06:35.040 I think he's saying, well, hold on.

00:06:36.180 And this is not something that I want to make the hallmark of my administration.

00:06:41.560 I think that's why he kept those remarks so tight,

00:06:43.440 why he kept an image of a unified cabinet behind him.

00:06:46.860 I think the way Trump views the attack on Iran is we had to do this. 0.73

00:06:52.180 I said I would do this.

00:06:53.180 I've been consistent for 10 years.

00:06:54.340 This is something I had to do.

00:06:55.520 But I don't really want to do it.

00:06:57.740 I want to focus on getting the economy spurring again.

00:07:01.900 I want to focus on the deportations.

00:07:04.900 I want to focus on the 250th celebration of America.

00:07:08.620 I want to focus on domestic issues, not so much bombing Iran.

00:07:14.060 So I'm going to do it.

00:07:14.820 Trump felt as though this was necessary.

00:07:17.820 But I don't think this is his top priority.

00:07:21.160 There's a little twinge of uncertainty in his voice.

00:07:24.160 So the question is, how will this play?

00:07:25.960 And this issue, unlike any I've seen in my lifetime,

00:07:30.020 highlights a generational divide on the right.

00:07:32.360 On the one hand, you have boomers and Gen X, 0.96

00:07:37.940 who I think view this as a display of strength.

00:07:41.260 Yeah, we told you you can't have a nuclear weapon.

00:07:43.640 We're going to go in there, fly those B2s. 1.00

00:07:46.360 America, baby, going to send some freedom seeds down the range. 0.62

00:07:49.400 And we're not going to let you do that.

00:07:51.060 We're not going to let you push us around.

00:07:52.400 Unlike these weak prior administrations, Biden and Obama,

00:07:55.840 we're going in there.

00:07:57.220 We're going to show you who's who.

00:07:58.580 I think to boomers and Gen X, this plays a strength.

00:08:02.680 However, I think to millennials and especially zoomers on the right,

00:08:07.720 I don't think this plays a strength.

00:08:09.560 I think millennials and especially zoomers view this as a display of weakness. 1.00

00:08:14.680 That it displays Trump getting led around by the Israelis, for instance. 0.96

00:08:20.460 They're being led around by the foreign policy establishment in D.C.,

00:08:23.820 being led around by the people who have wanted to bomb Iran for 20, 30 years.

00:08:28.300 I'm not saying that's what it is.

00:08:29.980 I'm saying that is how it reads among millennials and Gen Z, especially in the very political,

00:08:37.940 very plugged in, very online parts of millennials and Gen Z.

00:08:41.680 And so what do you do?

00:08:43.300 If you're Trump, you're the man, you're the guy, you're the president.

00:08:48.460 You're not the leader of some faction.

00:08:50.660 You're not the representative of a single generation.

00:08:54.800 You are the president of the United States, leader of the Republican Party,

00:08:56.940 leader of the conservative movement and leader of the country.

00:08:59.560 You have to balance both of those things.

00:09:02.520 And so one way to find a via media here on the Iran issue might be to not totally isolate yourself,

00:09:10.080 not say Iran can develop a nuclear weapon if it wants to,

00:09:12.280 not say I don't believe the intelligence reports that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, 0.94

00:09:15.160 but to say, OK, we're going to go in, we're going to bomb the facilities,

00:09:18.200 but we're not going to push for regime change,

00:09:21.340 which is what Vice President Vance said on ABC News Sunday.

00:09:26.560 Well, first of all, we don't want to achieve regime change.

00:09:30.340 We want to achieve the end of the Iranian nuclear program, John. 0.89

00:09:33.280 That's America's objective, and that's what the president has set us out to do.

00:09:36.680 The president, in the very tweet you mentioned, or the truth that you mentioned, John,

00:09:40.200 said explicitly that he's not trying to take out the Iranian supreme leader.

00:09:44.020 He's trying to take out their nuclear program.

00:09:46.520 And, of course, we took a major step forward with that last night.

00:09:49.860 And again, John, I think we have to back up and test some premises here.

00:09:54.200 How do you achieve long-term peace?

00:09:56.560 How do you prevent spiraling Middle Eastern conflict?

00:10:00.120 Is it through overwhelming military power targeted to an American objective?

00:10:05.540 Or is it by sort of walking yourself into these long-term protracted military conflicts?

00:10:10.780 I think by choosing overwhelming force and overwhelming force tied to something

00:10:16.460 that is important to the American people, that is the end of the Iranian nuclear program,

00:10:21.300 we can achieve peace much more fully than if we sort of sit on our hands and hope that somehow

00:10:27.360 if the Iranians get a nuclear weapon, they're going to be more peaceful.

00:10:30.260 That is a stupid approach, and the president rejected it.

00:10:33.680 Very, very, very well stated.

00:10:36.840 I would say that that is probably precisely my view of the situation,

00:10:40.980 that if the security concern has really risen to this level, that Iran is close to or close to

00:10:49.220 close to being able to get a nuclear weapon, then America's the global hegemon has to intervene.

00:10:53.920 But we don't want to push all the way into Bush-era nation-building, planting a Madisonian democracy

00:10:59.940 in Iran, which would be even harder than it was in Iraq, in Iraq where it failed.

00:11:03.800 So we are not pushing for regime change from the U.S.

00:11:08.000 And it would have played very, very well until President Trump posted about regime change hours later.

00:11:16.720 Hold on, put a pause.

00:11:18.080 I will get to that cliffhanger in just one moment.

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00:12:29.880 So J.D. Vance comes out and says, look, we had overwhelming military force.

00:12:33.640 We intervened.

00:12:34.300 This is not getting broiled down in a war.

00:12:36.600 This is instead just a strike to achieve a tactical end.

00:12:42.740 And now we're done.

00:12:43.420 No regime change.

00:12:44.360 And then President Trump posts, it's not politically correct to use the term regime change.

00:12:49.060 But if the current Iranian regime is unable to make America great again, why would there 1.00

00:12:52.980 not be regime change?

00:12:55.040 Three question marks.

00:12:55.940 Three exclamation points.

00:13:00.480 Make Iran great again.

00:13:02.040 I take it.

00:13:03.520 Miga.

00:13:04.780 So are the president and the vice president contradicting each other here?

00:13:08.960 I don't think necessarily.

00:13:10.160 I think perhaps what you're seeing is Trump leaving a carrot.

00:13:15.140 I think what you're seeing and what you've been seeing from the beginning on Iran, going

00:13:18.740 back to the 60-day period when Trump, I think, quite sincerely wanted to come to a nuclear

00:13:22.700 deal.

00:13:23.880 The Iranian regime didn't want to play ball.

00:13:25.940 They called Trump's bluff.

00:13:27.560 And then, unfortunately, Trump wasn't bluffing, unfortunately for them.

00:13:31.380 I think what Trump is doing here is leaving the Iranian regime a carrot.

00:13:35.900 So J.D.

00:13:36.300 Vance comes out and says, quite rightly, regime change in Iran is not our top priority.

00:13:40.960 If we can achieve our strategic ends without regime change, we're happy to do it because

00:13:46.340 it's going to bog us down.

00:13:47.320 It could derail our agenda is the implication.

00:13:50.080 Trump comes out and he says, look, you're not supposed to say regime change.

00:13:54.180 Why shouldn't we?

00:13:54.920 If this regime can't make Iran great again, maybe we need a new regime. 0.95

00:13:59.400 Now, I think what he's leaving the open as a possibility here is the Ayatollah could make 0.76

00:14:05.000 Iran great again.

00:14:05.800 But you got to play ball with the United States.

00:14:09.520 I think he's I think Trump knows he's he's made deal making enough of his identity for

00:14:15.500 the last 50 years that he knows that in order to achieve a deal, you don't only use the stick,

00:14:20.360 you use the carrot.

00:14:21.060 You have to give people not only a threat, but an incentive.

00:14:24.780 If you go along with what I want to do, we're going to reward you.

00:14:28.440 The only incentive left that Trump has to offer the Iranians is that he won't destroy their

00:14:35.820 regime.

00:14:37.060 So the threat obviously is maybe we will destroy your regime.

00:14:40.940 But we've already got the economic sanctions.

00:14:42.920 We've already dropped the bunker busters.

00:14:44.160 We've already destroyed.

00:14:45.120 Maybe we've destroyed your nuclear program.

00:14:46.520 It's actually a little unclear.

00:14:48.300 But hey, here's one incentive.

00:14:50.080 If you play ball, we might let you stay in power.

00:14:54.220 But don't call my bluff again.

00:14:56.200 Don't call my bluff again, because I'm crazy enough to take you out of power, too.

00:15:00.420 I think that's what's going on here.

00:15:02.220 And I think in a in a helpful way for the Iranians, Trump is giving the Ayatollah the

00:15:06.880 ability to save face here, because what could the Ayatollah say to maintain his legitimacy

00:15:11.280 and his credibility?

00:15:12.340 At this point, he's been completely pantsed by the United States and Israel.

00:15:15.840 He's been completely humiliated.

00:15:17.320 There's very little left of the regime to change in the first place.

00:15:20.580 But if the Ayatollah can come out to his people, to his neighbors in the Middle East, to his 0.60

00:15:26.740 allies in China and Russia and say, look, yeah, they took out most of my nuclear facilities.

00:15:32.940 OK, yeah, that was really bad.

00:15:34.640 But you saw Trump.

00:15:36.160 Trump wanted to kick me out of power.

00:15:37.760 And I held on to power.

00:15:38.860 Take that, America.

00:15:39.800 Take that great Satan. 0.89

00:15:41.720 Yeah, you thought you could push me around.

00:15:43.380 You can't push me around.

00:15:44.120 I've held on to power.

00:15:45.000 It just gives it gives him something to be to be able to save face.

00:15:49.560 But I think it's a credible threat to if the Iranians really don't want to play ball. 1.00

00:15:52.820 Maybe they say, look, at this point, in for a penny, in for a pound.

00:15:55.080 We're done.

00:15:55.760 I've named my successor.

00:15:56.860 They're going to take me out.

00:15:57.740 If not, the Americans, the Israelis are going to do it. 1.00

00:16:00.060 Because even if the Americans don't want regime change as an urgent priority, you know,

00:16:04.440 the Israelis do. 0.80

00:16:05.300 They've said that I think it was the defense minister of Israel said that the Ayatollah can

00:16:09.440 no longer be allowed to exist because the Ayatollah struck that hospital in Israel. 0.93

00:16:13.200 So, OK, look, maybe it's all over and we're not going to play ball.

00:16:16.080 Maybe we will have regime change.

00:16:18.040 But I think Trump is leaving open the possibility.

00:16:21.000 Maybe we don't.

00:16:22.760 Now, some members, turning back to the domestic front, some members of Congress are saying

00:16:27.960 that Trump's strike on Iran is illegal or unconstitutional.

00:16:31.320 And whatever you think about the strike on Iran, as you know, I've urged a little more 0.99

00:16:34.560 circumspection and caution on Iran, though I recognize we're a global empire.

00:16:38.640 There are more forces at play than just particular ideologies.

00:16:41.740 However, some people came out like AOC.

00:16:45.040 So this is unconstitutional, unconstitutional.

00:16:48.140 We need to open up impeachment investigations for what?

00:16:52.540 Not just her.

00:16:53.580 Hakeem Jeffries was suggesting this was illegal, unconstitutional.

00:16:56.180 A lot of top Democrats.

00:16:57.780 So we'll get to whatever their argument is for a second, because I'm not surprised that

00:17:02.800 AOC and the Democrats are calling this unconstitutional.

00:17:05.960 But you have an ostensibly conservative Republican, Thomas Massey, making the same argument on liberal

00:17:14.700 CBS News.

00:17:16.760 The Speaker of the House, who is from your own party, has really rejected this.

00:17:21.760 He says the Article One power of Congress really allows for the president to do this.

00:17:27.160 It was a limited, necessary, targeted strike, he says.

00:17:30.840 Well, he's probably referring to the War Powers Act of 1973, but that's been misinterpreted.

00:17:37.820 There was no imminent threat to the United States, which was what would authorize that.

00:17:43.760 And I think that's peculiar to hear that from the Speaker of the House.

00:17:47.140 Look, Congress was on vacation last week when all this was happening.

00:17:50.780 You haven't been briefed on any of the issues.

00:17:52.120 We haven't been briefed.

00:17:53.360 They should have called us all back.

00:17:55.340 And frankly, we should have debated this War Powers Resolution that Ro Khanna and I offered

00:18:00.060 instead of staying on vacation and doing fundraisers and saying, oh, well, the president's got this

00:18:06.000 under control.

00:18:06.780 We're going to cede our constitutional authority.

00:18:09.120 OK, look, I don't have anything particular, particularly against Thomas Massey.

00:18:13.980 I know they're in this fight now, Trump and Massey.

00:18:16.520 Massey is a libertarian, so I have lots of philosophical and ideological differences with him.

00:18:20.440 I think libertarianism is kind of silly.

00:18:22.460 I'm a conservative, so we have a difference of opinion on certain matters of first principle.

00:18:27.960 But what he just said here, I've often thought he's an intelligent guy.

00:18:32.220 He's a principled guy, even if some of his principles are wrong.

00:18:34.880 What he just said is ridiculous.

00:18:37.840 That is like AOC level ridiculous.

00:18:40.860 He says, well, this is such a libertarian argument.

00:18:45.260 Sorry to our libertarian friends.

00:18:46.900 I know there are many wonderful libertarians who listen to the show.

00:18:48.820 But this is such a, this is like the worst of libertarianism.

00:18:52.020 This is the utopian, ahistorical libertarianism.

00:18:57.680 He says, well, the reason Trump thinks that he had the right to these strikes is because

00:19:03.540 of the War Powers Resolution from the 1970s.

00:19:06.620 The War Powers Resolution, which says that the president can deploy troops and can wield

00:19:11.100 the US military for 60 days.

00:19:12.940 And it's really 90 days because you get a 30-day withdrawal period.

00:19:15.100 But that's, that's actually been misinterpreted.

00:19:18.760 He doesn't really have that right.

00:19:21.220 It's been misinterpreted.

00:19:22.640 Now, notice why he has to say misinterpreted.

00:19:24.860 The reason is presidents have done, presidents of both parties have done what Donald Trump did

00:19:33.000 on Saturday night since the War Powers Resolution was passed.

00:19:38.780 Every, I think every single president, maybe with the exception of Carter.

00:19:46.320 What a great, what a great example that was.

00:19:48.380 What a great presidency that was, Jimmy Carter.

00:19:50.600 Basically, every single president since the War Resolution, War Powers Resolution was passed,

00:19:54.880 has done at least what Trump did and, and usually more egregious examples of what Trump did.

00:20:01.380 So, Jerry Ford did what Trump did twice.

00:20:06.920 Ronald Reagan did it three times.

00:20:09.900 At one time, the, the troops in Lebanon created a big, a big problem, the Beirut barracks bombings,

00:20:15.900 which killed a bunch of US troops.

00:20:18.840 George H.W. Bush did it twice.

00:20:21.200 Bill Clinton did it three times.

00:20:23.760 George W. Bush actually did get authorization, though sometimes he arguably exceeded his authorization.

00:20:29.540 What's funny is, George W. Bush was actually among the most constrained in using the War Powers Act.

00:20:35.660 Barack Obama did it twice.

00:20:37.940 Joe Biden did it a couple times.

00:20:40.240 Though it was a little bit murkier because there were much older war resolutions or use of force resolutions

00:20:45.600 for Obama and Biden, but they basically used it a couple times.

00:20:49.020 So, what is he arguing?

00:20:51.400 What is Massey arguing here? 0.99

00:20:52.540 He's saying, okay, since this war resolution was passed in the 1970s, it has always been misinterpreted.

00:21:02.460 Basically, every president of both parties has used it in the wrong way.

00:21:06.320 But I, Thomas Massey, I know the true meaning of the War Powers Act. 0.55

00:21:11.100 And so, I know that it has just been constantly misinterpreted for 50 years because no one asked Thomas Massey.

00:21:17.840 Someone should have just asked Thomas Massey, and then they would have been clear on what the law actually meant.

00:21:24.600 And that's why what Trump did is illegal and unconstitutional.

00:21:27.360 Give me a break.

00:21:28.220 This is ridiculous.

00:21:29.480 This is ridiculous.

00:21:30.860 If a law is interpreted by both parties and multiple presidents for 50 years as meaning one thing,

00:21:37.420 some random libertarian member of Congress doesn't get to redefine that.

00:21:40.600 Sorry.

00:21:41.520 So ridiculous.

00:21:43.500 That's why it's unconstitutional and illegal.

00:21:45.780 This is also why people have problems with libertarians.

00:21:49.380 This is why.

00:21:50.440 Because, look, I was a libertarian once.

00:21:53.260 We all were libertarians.

00:21:54.560 Many of us were when we were teenagers.

00:21:57.140 And people say, well, listen, these libertarians, they're so principled.

00:22:01.680 They sometimes get things wrong in practice, but they're the ones who are truly principled.

00:22:06.380 Some people, there are surveys that come out.

00:22:08.580 They say, Thomas Massey is the most conservative member of Congress.

00:22:11.200 That's not possible.

00:22:11.960 It is not possible at once to be the most libertarian member of Congress and the most conservative member of Congress.

00:22:17.280 Because libertarianism and conservatism are different things.

00:22:20.880 Okay?

00:22:21.540 But even beyond that, well, he's the most principled.

00:22:24.040 He's got the most principles.

00:22:25.260 Let me ask you something.

00:22:26.880 And I say this with affection.

00:22:28.180 I know it seems like I'm on an invective here.

00:22:30.660 I'm just haranguing the libertarians.

00:22:32.060 But I do so out of love, like jilted love, because I was once, I thought like this.

00:22:38.940 Pick your favorite libertarian politician.

00:22:41.800 Just close your eyes.

00:22:43.260 It doesn't have to be Thomas Massey.

00:22:44.780 Close your eyes.

00:22:46.360 Who's your favorite libertarian politician of any era?

00:22:50.180 I'm not talking about a Republican who likes tax cuts.

00:22:52.720 I'm not talking about a conservative who watched Milton Friedman videos.

00:22:57.180 I'm talking about a real libertarian like that.

00:22:59.120 Capital L libertarians claim this guy is a libertarian.

00:23:01.880 Okay, close your eyes.

00:23:02.540 Imagine that person.

00:23:04.240 Now, name one concrete political achievement that that person has ever done.

00:23:13.280 That that person can claim.

00:23:14.700 Name one.

00:23:15.620 I'm talking not, well, you changed the culture.

00:23:17.540 No, no, no, no.

00:23:18.240 I want like a concrete, actual political achievement.

00:23:22.800 For your most favorite, beloved, principled libertarian politician.

00:23:26.900 You can't name one, is the thing.

00:23:31.760 That's the issue.

00:23:33.480 And you can't name one because libertarianism is a utopian political ideology that misunderstands human nature.

00:23:39.860 And therefore politics, because man is the political animal.

00:23:42.140 Okay, that's why.

00:23:43.180 That's the problem.

00:23:44.560 That is my issue.

00:23:47.180 I like them, you know, I think generally they have good intentions.

00:23:50.900 But that's the problem.

00:23:52.080 And Trump has taken that frustration and gone, death con three, to quote Kanye West.

00:24:01.100 He has gone all the way.

00:24:02.520 He has declared war on Thomas Massey.

00:24:05.380 We're going to take a beat.

00:24:06.540 We're going to take a beat.

00:24:07.360 Pull over your car.

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00:25:31.200 President Trump had this to say about Thomas Massey.

00:25:35.580 It's a lot. I'll try to read it quickly.

00:25:37.440 Congressman Thomas Massey of Kentucky is not MAGA, even though he likes to say he is.

00:25:41.080 Actually, MAGA doesn't want him, doesn't know him, and doesn't respect him. 0.68

00:25:44.480 He is a negative force who almost always votes no, no matter how good something may be.

00:25:47.560 He's a simple-minded grandstander who thinks it's good politics for Iran to have a nuclear weapon,

00:25:52.860 the highest level nuclear weapon, while at the same time yelling death to America at every chance they get.

00:25:56.900 Iran has killed and maimed thousands of Americans and even took over the American embassy in Tehran under the Carter administration.

00:26:02.640 We had a spectacular military success yesterday taking the bomb right out of their hands,

00:26:06.080 and they would use it if they could.

00:26:07.540 But as usual, and despite all of the praise and accolades received,

00:26:09.900 this lightweight congressman is against what was so brilliantly achieved last night in Iran.

00:26:13.520 Massey is weak, ineffective, and votes no on virtually everything put before him.

00:26:16.700 Parentheses, Rand Paul Jr.

00:26:18.440 He's going after Rand, too.

00:26:19.800 Rand is catching strays during the attack on Thomas Massey.

00:26:23.520 There he repeats the same thing, votes no on everything, no matter how good something may be.

00:26:26.920 So you're getting the sense, I just love Trump's prose, where it's like stream of consciousness.

00:26:33.920 He is disrespectful to our great military and all that they stand for.

00:26:36.920 Now he's really ratcheting up the rhetoric here.

00:26:38.760 He's disrespectful to our military, all they stand for.

00:26:41.920 Not even acknowledging their brilliance and bravery in yesterday's attack, which was a total and complete win.

00:26:46.940 Massey should drop his fake act and start putting America first, but he doesn't know how to get there.

00:26:50.600 He doesn't have a clue.

00:26:51.640 He'll undoubtedly vote against the great big beautiful bill, even though the non-passage means a 68% tax increase for everybody.

00:26:57.060 And many things far worse than that.

00:26:58.400 Okay, so here you're getting the sense, hold on.

00:27:00.700 Trump's just barrage against Massey and Massey's attacks on Trump, it might not just be about this Iran thing.

00:27:11.140 It might be about a little bit more than those bunker busters on Saturday.

00:27:15.220 He goes on.

00:27:15.900 He goes on.

00:27:17.260 MAGA should drop this pathetic loser, Tom Massey, like the plague. 0.93

00:27:20.980 The good news is that we will have a wonderful American patriot running against him in the Republican primary,

00:27:25.700 and I'll be out in Kentucky campaigning really hard.

00:27:27.320 MAGA is not about lazy, grandstanding, non-productive politicians, of which Thomas Massey is definitely one.

00:27:32.400 Thank you to our incredible military for the amazing job they did last night.

00:27:35.560 It was really special.

00:27:36.940 Make America great again.

00:27:38.000 Okay.

00:27:39.100 Okay.

00:27:39.640 Now, I know a lot of people love Thomas Massey.

00:27:42.300 A lot of people are really upset with Trump.

00:27:44.540 At least, not a lot, a lot, but a lot of people, at least online, are really upset with Trump over the Iran bombings.

00:27:50.780 So that's why Trump is coming out really hard against Massey.

00:27:54.200 My point, regardless of what you think about the Trump-Massey feud, is you should not be surprised by the Trump-Massey feud.

00:28:00.620 This has been going on for a long time.

00:28:03.640 Thomas Massey was not a Trump guy.

00:28:06.140 In 2016, Thomas Massey, being a libertarian, endorsed Rand Paul for president.

00:28:10.700 And when he was asked what he thought about the state of the Republican primary, this is after Paul got out, I think, he said he's really pessimistic.

00:28:19.120 And he kind of grudgingly voted for the Republican ticket, but he didn't want to.

00:28:22.760 He was really anti-Trump in 2016.

00:28:25.140 Then, around January 6th, the worst day in the history of this or any republic, Thomas Massey and five other Republicans in the House wrote a letter opposing President Trump's efforts to clarify what went on in that election.

00:28:44.680 And it was somewhat balanced, but they were going against Trump around January 6th.

00:28:49.640 Sorry.

00:28:50.260 January 6th!

00:28:51.640 And then, in the 2024 primary, Thomas Massey was one of the first guys to come out and endorse Ron DeSantis and campaign for Ron DeSantis.

00:28:59.000 So that's the backstory here.

00:29:00.700 There's a whole backstory to this that goes on much further than the, maybe further than the Iranian nuclear program.

00:29:08.080 At least further than this episode in the Iranian nuclear program.

00:29:12.500 So someone asked, they're like, why do libertarians play so well?

00:29:18.080 Why does the internet, why do podcasters love libertarians?

00:29:21.680 And the reason is, libertarians always play really well on the internet.

00:29:26.320 The problem for libertarians is, they play well basically nowhere else.

00:29:32.020 That's why I remember, what was it, 10, 15 years ago, there were all these think pieces.

00:29:35.880 The libertarian moment, is this the libertarian moment?

00:29:38.960 No, there will never be a libertarian moment.

00:29:41.400 If you think, this is tough love, but you know, you tune in to hear the truth, okay?

00:29:47.000 You don't tune in to be flattered or coddled.

00:29:49.980 There will never be a libertarian moment.

00:29:51.800 It will never happen anywhere.

00:29:53.420 It's never happened before, it will never happen.

00:29:56.920 The reason there will never be a libertarian moment is that libertarianism misunderstands human nature.

00:30:02.500 And views human beings fundamentally as isolated individuals, atomized rather than as what we are,

00:30:09.240 which is social creatures, who have not only entitlements and rights, but also obligations.

00:30:13.440 And primarily, really, duties and obligations.

00:30:16.120 That's why.

00:30:18.000 Because it's a utopian ideology.

00:30:19.700 So, whatever you think about the Trump-Massey fight, we'll see.

00:30:22.860 I'm actually a little skeptical that the GOP could oust Massey.

00:30:26.180 I think he's pretty popular in his district.

00:30:29.260 So, we'll see.

00:30:30.740 But this is an outgrowth of a deeper philosophical debate, which is the debate between conservatives and libertarians.

00:30:39.360 Now, speaking of political debates, Gavin Newsom is thirsty for a debate with J.D. Vance.

00:30:44.860 He tweets out on Juneteenth.

00:30:47.840 Juneteenth, of course, is the day. 1.00

00:30:49.360 It's the sacred feast after Juneteenth, but before Juneteenth.

00:30:52.320 First, Gavin tweets out, hey, J.D. Vance, nice of you to finally make it out to California.

00:30:56.840 Since you're so eager to talk to me, how about saying it to my face?

00:31:00.220 Let's debate.

00:31:02.080 Time and place.

00:31:04.180 Yeah, debate me, bro.

00:31:06.660 Gavin Newsom really wants to be the Democrat nominee for president in 2028.

00:31:11.420 I don't know if you'd noticed that.

00:31:12.820 He really, really wants to be the guy.

00:31:16.100 And he's doing pretty well at distinguishing himself from the rest of the field.

00:31:20.660 It's mostly because there is no rest of the field right now for the Democrats.

00:31:23.700 Kamala Harris, total joke, going nowhere. 1.00

00:31:26.000 Mayor Pete, I don't think so.

00:31:27.880 Who, Gretchen Whitmer? 1.00

00:31:29.580 It's maybe the closest other thing they have to a candidate.

00:31:32.240 So, Newsom, just by process of elimination, I guess, is the leading guy in the field for 2028.

00:31:37.900 But notice, Gavin Newsom is trying to launch a 2028 Democrat presidential campaign

00:31:44.320 by imitating what the American right was doing in 2015.

00:31:49.800 First, he launches a podcast.

00:31:52.380 And on that podcast, he invites on Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk and tries to suck up to MAGA.

00:31:57.680 That's the first thing he does.

00:31:58.640 The first tactic is, hey, guys, check out my new podcast.

00:32:03.940 The year is 2025.

00:32:05.700 That's very 2015 energy.

00:32:07.660 Hey, guys, check out this.

00:32:09.080 I got a cool new podcast, man.

00:32:10.760 I'm cool and hip.

00:32:12.420 And then the second tactic is debate me, bro, which is the American rights tactics from 10 years ago.

00:32:18.340 I was part of it.

00:32:19.360 I did that.

00:32:20.220 We all, a number of us did that.

00:32:22.280 But, buddy, come on.

00:32:23.560 It's 2025.

00:32:24.920 And you're governor of a state.

00:32:26.160 And you're trying to run for president.

00:32:27.500 As a Democrat.

00:32:28.300 I don't know if it's going to work.

00:32:29.520 Kind of weak.

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00:33:00.740 Now, speaking of California Democrats, a true political achievement from a very prominent Democrat,

00:33:07.240 Nancy Pelosi has outperformed every large hedge fund in the country last year.

00:33:13.400 Her portfolio is the greatest example of financial acumen anywhere in the country.

00:33:20.920 She raked in between $7.8 and $42.5 million in 2024.

00:33:29.060 That's a pretty big range.

00:33:31.180 This is according to reporting from the New York Post.

00:33:33.360 That means that her net worth, along with her husband, is now somewhere in the neighborhood of $413 million, according to financial disclosures.

00:33:43.920 That's pretty big, because her 2023 net worth was $370 million.

00:33:48.560 So that's a lot of scratch.

00:33:49.920 How'd she make all that extra money? 1.00

00:33:52.400 Well, we actually know.

00:33:53.740 We have a few examples from reporting of how she made that money. 0.89

00:33:56.640 She, for instance, dropped 5,000 shares of Microsoft, which was worth north of $2 million back in July.

00:34:06.240 That was one of their largest sales in three years.

00:34:09.920 That was just a few months before the FTC announced an antitrust investigation into Microsoft.

00:34:14.820 What are the odds?

00:34:16.460 What are the odds?

00:34:17.300 That's amazing timing.

00:34:18.840 Then the Pelosi's also sold 2,000 shares, worth over half a million dollars, of Visa.

00:34:24.700 That was less than three months.

00:34:25.720 Again, three months.

00:34:26.400 That number is kind of interesting.

00:34:28.060 Before the credit card company was hit with a DOJ monopoly lawsuit.

00:34:31.320 That's, wow, impressive.

00:34:33.260 And then Nancy Pelosi exercised a call option in December that she had bought in late 2023 at a premium of $1.8 million,

00:34:42.680 which allowed the Pelosi's to get 50,000 shares of NVIDIA for $12 a pop, less than a tenth of its market price.

00:34:48.980 So they exploded because of NVIDIA, which means that the couple paid $2.4 million for the NVIDIA investment, and it's now worth over $7 million.

00:35:00.600 Wow, man.

00:35:02.560 What am I thinking?

00:35:03.660 I got, you know, a buddy of mine manages my money.

00:35:05.540 He's a very smart financial guy.

00:35:07.100 But I guess I got to fire him.

00:35:08.960 I got to hire Nancy Pelosi, huh?

00:35:11.120 You should too.

00:35:12.360 It's amazing.

00:35:14.000 No one.

00:35:15.340 I don't care how loyal a yellow dog Democrat you are. 0.97

00:35:19.420 No one can possibly look at this and say it's not corrupt.

00:35:22.820 It's just not possible.

00:35:25.360 She, Nancy Pelosi, even if she'd outperformed a hedge fund, that's what she can't outperform all the big hedge funds and have it just be chalked up to her financial acumen. 0.98

00:35:35.600 It's so, so corrupt.

00:35:39.540 And so the Democrats are losing on two fronts right now.

00:35:43.200 One, they don't know what they believe.

00:35:45.360 Are the Democrats for securing our borders or the Democrats for open borders?

00:35:49.360 Are the Democrats for Israel or the Democrats for Palestine, to talk about this recent issue in the Middle East?

00:35:56.140 Are the Democrats for supporting American labor and protective tariffs or the Democrats for free trade and forget about labor, which plays into the immigration issue too?

00:36:05.580 They don't know what they believe, and they're manifestly super-duper corrupt.

00:36:11.020 Which is why, tying it all the way back to what we're talking about, which is what most people are going to be debating today, the Iran issue, it's why the Iran issue is so perilous right now for Trump.

00:36:22.240 Because Trump has a great domestic agenda, and he's racking up great domestic wins, and he's assembled a great voter coalition that includes disaffected Democrats,

00:36:32.480 who came over with Bobby Kennedy on Maha, but also a lot with Tulsi Gabbard on opposing the forever wars.

00:36:40.760 So Trump has a great domestic agenda.

00:36:43.520 And if he can go in, bomb Iran, take care of the nuclear problem, and just move on, great. 0.85

00:36:49.660 That's one thing.

00:36:50.240 If we get bogged down in a regime change in Iran, so we boot out the Ayatollah, and then what? 0.86

00:36:57.740 Maybe we don't know who comes in.

00:36:58.680 Does Riza Pahlavi come in, the crown prince, the son of the deposed Shah?

00:37:02.060 Maybe that works.

00:37:02.880 Maybe it doesn't work.

00:37:04.920 Maybe there's an election, and maybe, I don't know, some other party wins.

00:37:07.820 Maybe there's a Shia insurgency. 0.65

00:37:09.360 Maybe there, who knows?

00:37:10.380 Maybe it's not so easy to change regimes as we sometimes think it is.

00:37:14.640 If he allows himself to be distracted by that, you could lose the domestic agenda at a moment

00:37:22.560 when Democrats are historically weak.

00:37:24.080 The Democrats have not been this weak in my lifetime.

00:37:26.600 This is unbelievable on the ideology because of wokeism and on the corruption front because

00:37:30.580 of people like Nancy Pelosi and the Bidens and the Clintons are just so obviously corrupt.

00:37:36.500 So Trump is walking a tightrope right now.

00:37:38.940 That's why when his voice cracks a little bit, when he's talking about God, your voice should

00:37:42.520 crack when you talk about God.

00:37:43.420 You should have a on-wonder.

00:37:44.240 It's the beginning of wisdom.

00:37:45.460 But that represents a real political uncertainty.

00:37:50.020 If you are not yet a Daily Wire Plus member, now is the time to change that.

00:37:53.760 You get every single Daily Wire show, including this one, most importantly this one, at least

00:37:58.720 an hour before anyone else.

00:38:00.500 By the time the show's, the news could have completely changed at this rate.

00:38:04.260 Plus, you'll get the show ad-free and uncensored.

00:38:06.580 It is more than just early access and premium content.

00:38:09.080 It's about joining a community of people who want the truth, respect tradition, and are armed

00:38:12.760 with good old-fashioned common sense.

00:38:15.060 This is where like-minded people come together to push back, speak up, build something the

00:38:18.100 left can't cancel or burn down.

00:38:20.460 If that sounds like you, join now at dailywireplus.com.

00:38:23.920 Okay.

00:38:26.380 My favorite comment yesterday, when was it?

00:38:29.520 When were we here?

00:38:30.020 Saturday.

00:38:30.520 It's from Flexible Aspect, who says, breaking news, a federal judge has demanded Trump retrieve

00:38:35.640 the bombs and repair the nuclear facilities.

00:38:37.740 That's true.

00:38:38.700 That's all it takes.

00:38:39.980 One federal judge out of 700.

00:38:41.900 One district judge.

00:38:42.620 Okay, sorry.

00:38:45.420 Send in the B2 again.

00:38:47.340 Have him scoop up that bomb.

00:38:50.800 What can we do?

00:38:51.720 What can the executive of the United States do?

00:38:53.580 Some random federal judge has said we must.

00:38:56.320 Okay.

00:38:56.660 Most important story, of course, of the last week.

00:38:59.920 JoJo Siwa says that she was pressured to be a lesbian.

00:39:04.260 Who is JoJo Siwa?

00:39:05.880 I don't know, really.

00:39:07.000 I think she's an actress and a singer. 0.55

00:39:09.100 Her, something like she's a pop culture figure, and she was a lesbian, but she's not a lesbian 0.99

00:39:14.880 anymore because she posted a picture, or her boyfriend posted a picture with a guy.

00:39:19.360 She was like lying in bed with him, all nuzzled up, and it wasn't even a girly boy.

00:39:24.000 It wasn't even a guy who paints his nails or something.

00:39:26.220 It was like a Giga Chad kind of looking guy.

00:39:29.660 Very strange behavior for a lesbian. 1.00

00:39:32.580 And she's addressed this.

00:39:34.760 JoJo says, quote,

00:39:37.140 quote, when I came out at 17, 17, it's a minor, I said, I'm pansexual because I don't care

00:39:46.740 about gender.

00:39:47.860 That's what she said to the Daily Mail.

00:39:49.480 But then I kind of boxed myself in, and I said, I'm a lesbian.

00:39:53.880 And I think I did that because of pressure.

00:39:56.680 As for where that pressure came from, she says, quote, in a weird way, I think it came

00:40:03.460 a little bit from inside the community at times, the LGBT, LMNOP community.

00:40:07.480 From people I know, from partners I've had, you just put in this world where you feel like,

00:40:12.680 because you now have said, oh, I'm a lesbian.

00:40:15.220 You have to be a lesbian. 1.00

00:40:16.680 And the truth is, man, sexuality is fluid, you know?

00:40:19.960 Okay.

00:40:21.580 Clear away the gobbledygook from that statement.

00:40:23.940 What is she saying?

00:40:24.640 She's saying, young people, kids, teenagers at least, become gay because of pressure,

00:40:35.680 peer pressure from the LGBT community.

00:40:39.840 Is this Pat Robertson?

00:40:41.740 Is this the religious right?

00:40:43.960 Is this the church?

00:40:44.760 Is this a terrible conversion therapist?

00:40:48.700 Homophobic?

00:40:49.500 Whatever.

00:40:50.620 Saying this?

00:40:51.380 No, it's a girl who said she was a lesbian until five seconds ago.

00:40:55.240 Young girl said she was a lesbian as a teenager and now says, actually, I wasn't really a lesbian

00:41:02.380 or the way I became a lesbian is because I was peer pressured into it by the LGBT.

00:41:06.680 I was groomed into it as a teenager by the LGBT community.

00:41:10.700 She is saying exactly the same thing that the religious right and the social conservatives

00:41:14.940 and the so-called homophobes have said for decades.

00:41:17.160 So, what is it?

00:41:20.760 Is that, is that, is she right?

00:41:24.820 Choose your answer carefully.

00:41:26.740 Choose, I know there are liberals and leftists and all sorts of people, LGBT, LMNOP activists

00:41:32.120 who watch the show.

00:41:33.640 Some, some of whom are paid to do that so that they can get clips of me, but, but some

00:41:36.840 of them who watch it just out of their own choice.

00:41:38.460 Keep an open mind.

00:41:40.320 You obviously have one.

00:41:43.560 One of two things can be true.

00:41:45.260 Either what Jojo Siwa said is right, that kids are groomed by the LGBT community into adopting 1.00

00:41:51.380 LGBT identities, into adopting weird sex stuff, or you, you have to deny the lived experience 0.99

00:42:01.020 and the self-professed sexual orientation and identity of a young queer girl. 0.60

00:42:10.020 Those are your only two options.

00:42:12.360 Which one is it?

00:42:14.180 Which would the, oh, oh, ah, it's a tough one, huh?

00:42:18.700 What is it?

00:42:19.460 Well, it's the former, but, but you could also do the latter.

00:42:25.900 You can also deny people self-identified, uh, sexual identities and, and orientations because

00:42:31.420 there is such a thing as subjective reality.

00:42:33.800 We can know these things through reason, and it turns out that the whole sexual revolution

00:42:37.700 was, was false.

00:42:39.220 We talked earlier in the Trump-Massey fight about false anthropologies, false conceptions

00:42:44.260 of human nature.

00:42:44.840 There is no falser conception of human nature than the LGBTQ identity. 1.00

00:42:51.280 Just ask young erstwhile lesbians. 1.00

00:42:53.560 They will tell you.

00:42:54.420 Speaking of weird sex stuff in the sexual revolution, one last point.

00:42:57.740 Really good news.

00:42:58.940 I know there's some news where people don't, is it good news?

00:43:01.180 Is it bad news?

00:43:01.800 Bombing Iran. 0.98

00:43:02.800 Is, oh, there's some infighting on the right.

00:43:04.280 Oh, maybe Trump's domestic agenda is imperiled.

00:43:06.800 Oh, there's some, there's some perilous news that's come out, but I've got some unambiguously

00:43:11.560 good news.

00:43:13.840 NBC, of all places, is reporting that the crusade against pornography is attracting a huge coalition.

00:43:24.560 Huge coalition of people.

00:43:26.520 The strange bedfellows driving and winning the war on porn, feminists, religious crusaders,

00:43:30.620 and alpha male influencers, have turned the tide in the decades-old battle over adult content.

00:43:35.280 Here's just one paragraph from it.

00:43:37.040 Once viewed as a fringe moral crusade, the war against porn has ballooned into a multi-pronged

00:43:40.780 mainstream force over the past decade that now counts feminists, religious crusaders, 1.00

00:43:44.800 alpha male influencers, and a growing number of politicians among its ranks.

00:43:49.420 And after several key social and legislative wins, the movement faces its biggest test.

00:43:54.240 A Supreme Court ruling this summer is set to determine whether a Texas law, which mirrors

00:43:58.440 legislation in over a dozen states and requires porn sites to confirm a visitor's age or face

00:44:03.800 financial penalties in the name of protecting minors from explicit content, infringes on the

00:44:08.260 First Amendment rights of adults.

00:44:09.720 Does applying the same rules we've had for porn magazines and newsstands forever, does applying

00:44:18.000 those same rules to the internet?

00:44:20.320 That is, making sure little kids don't get this content.

00:44:23.120 Does that violate the First Amendment?

00:44:24.940 This sounds like the people's, Trump, Trump violated the Constitution by doing what every

00:44:29.340 president has done since the War Powers Resolution, which is obviously within his purview as commander

00:44:33.460 in chief.

00:44:34.660 Does this, is this?

00:44:36.480 When the framers of our Constitution were writing the First Amendment, do you think they said in

00:44:41.080 this, here we are gathered, gentlemen, to ensure that little children can be groomed into

00:44:47.840 creepy, obscene sex stuff from the very, very youngest ages?

00:44:52.860 We, the people, are here gathered to preserve creepy porn for children.

00:45:00.360 That is why we fought, why we bled the blood of independence in the revolution.

00:45:05.040 No, I don't think so.

00:45:07.600 By the way, this coalition, Pace, NBC News, is nothing really new.

00:45:13.260 Here is Catherine McKinnon, a radical feminist, not a conservative, not a libertarian even, not

00:45:19.020 just a radical left-wing feminist in 1995, explaining her view of porn. 0.97

00:45:26.100 How does your position on this differ from that of the religious conservatives like Reverend

00:45:34.620 Wildman and others who are in favor of censoring pornographic material?

00:45:40.220 Well, it mainly differs because they don't support our ordinance.

00:45:43.920 That is, they don't support our work, don't agree with it.

00:45:47.160 You go further than they do.

00:45:49.100 Well, I don't know exactly what you would say about, I mean, we go further because our

00:45:53.560 approach would actually be effective in doing something about it.

00:45:57.360 Their approach is obscenity law, which has been in effect since 1973 and has done nothing,

00:46:03.020 while the pornography industry has somewhere between doubled and tripled in size.

00:46:07.820 Okay, so she says, no, no, no, I'm not like the religious right.

00:46:12.680 I mean, I share all of their goals.

00:46:15.180 The difference between me and the religious right, me, a radical feminist on porn, is I

00:46:19.960 want to be effective.

00:46:21.040 I want to go much further.

00:46:22.060 So how does she go further?

00:46:22.980 How do the anti-porn feminists, the sex-negative feminists, let's say, contrary to the sex-positive 1.00

00:46:29.980 people that we've heard so much about the last 20 years, how do they go further than the

00:46:34.000 religious right?

00:46:34.780 Here's what she says.

00:46:36.640 Are women and children or men being hurt on the basis of sex?

00:46:41.300 By the...

00:46:42.440 Can you prove that someone is being hurt by this?

00:46:45.980 For example, a white-only sign.

00:46:48.260 Right.

00:46:48.600 It's only words, but it segregates.

00:46:51.140 Right.

00:46:51.380 For example, cross-burnings.

00:46:53.720 They terrorize.

00:46:54.680 They intimidate.

00:46:55.560 They segregate.

00:46:56.640 They do things.

00:46:57.720 Right.

00:46:58.060 For example, lynchings.

00:46:59.320 A lynching is to be watched.

00:47:01.600 You've got a dead body hanging in the square after the thing has been accomplished.

00:47:05.600 It expresses something.

00:47:07.100 It expresses white supremacy.

00:47:09.120 It says, stay in your place.

00:47:11.160 Keep down.

00:47:11.820 Okay, now, we have a pornography industry that does all that through a technologically sophisticated

00:47:19.240 means, through pictures and words.

00:47:22.300 That is all it is, and that is all it does.

00:47:25.580 It's the same thing.

00:47:26.740 And those are actual acts.

00:47:30.160 That isn't what quote-unquote offends somebody.

00:47:32.080 Charlie, if you heard a woman screaming in the next room by being bounced off walls by a man she lives with, are you offended?

00:47:41.780 I mean, that isn't what you say to yourself.

00:47:45.100 You're experiencing the enactment of an abuse.

00:47:48.360 You're witnessing it.

00:47:49.400 Okay, I almost totally agree with her here.

00:47:53.980 And Catherine McKinnon, she's making great points here in the 90s.

00:47:57.140 She's more recently made kind of crazy points.

00:47:59.780 She embraced transgenderism.

00:48:01.260 I mean, she's a feminist. 1.00

00:48:02.080 She's like a radical left-wing feminist. 1.00

00:48:04.880 But the point she's making here is really, really good.

00:48:06.860 But I would go further than her.

00:48:08.180 She says, I agree with the religious right, but I would go further than them. 0.97

00:48:11.340 I say, I agree with her, the radical feminist, but I would go further than her.

00:48:15.080 She's trying to preserve liberal proceduralism. 1.00

00:48:19.400 And by saying, look, I'm not calling for censorship, really.

00:48:23.600 I'm just saying there's a difference between offensive content and speech acts.

00:48:29.900 She's trying to draw this hard line between anodyne speech and speech that has effect. 1.00

00:48:36.060 So she says, when you've got cross-burning or something, that's doing something. 0.92

00:48:40.560 Unlike other speech, it doesn't do anything.

00:48:41.960 When you've got pornography where it's an enactment of an abuse that then appeals to men and arouses their lusts,

00:48:48.180 by the abuse, that that's actually an act of doing something with words.

00:48:54.120 Not just, what, doing nothing with words?

00:48:58.460 All speech does something.

00:48:59.680 That's why I would go further than her.

00:49:00.740 I would say, all speech does something.

00:49:02.300 That's the point of speech.

00:49:03.460 I mean, our speech is, in many ways, what distinguishes us from the brutes.

00:49:07.860 And from the angels, for that matter.

00:49:09.460 It is, in many ways, what distinguishes us as humans.

00:49:12.680 Because it means that we, like the angels, are rational creatures.

00:49:16.840 We can debate things.

00:49:18.840 We can discuss things.

00:49:20.100 We can use signs and symbols to talk about external realities, objective reality.

00:49:24.720 But, like the brutes, we're incarnate.

00:49:27.160 So we can't communicate through osmosis or telepathy.

00:49:30.200 We need to communicate through the physical world.

00:49:32.080 So we need to communicate through sounds.

00:49:34.340 We need, and you need to be able to hear a sound and then have your physical senses take

00:49:40.120 that sound in, and then your mind can interpret it.

00:49:43.860 And I would go further and say, no, that's all speech.

00:49:46.560 Of course, all speech does something.

00:49:49.260 If speech didn't do something, we would just be grunting like baboons. 1.00

00:49:52.580 So that's why we need serious standards.

00:49:56.680 And we don't need to preserve liberal proceduralism.

00:49:59.200 We can, we can, and this brings me to my broader point.

00:50:02.100 My, my broader point, which is something pre-liberal, maybe post-liberal, but certainly pre-liberal.

00:50:10.480 We, you can have good government.

00:50:12.620 In fact, I think you're more inclined to have good government without all of this liberal

00:50:16.380 idolatry of procedure.

00:50:18.560 You'll have procedure, you'll have due process, you'll have all of those things to a great,

00:50:22.080 greater, much greater degree than you do during, during liberalism.

00:50:25.920 But we need to be able to do good things and not, and avoid bad things.

00:50:30.480 And if your ideology prevents you from doing good things and avoiding bad things, then

00:50:37.860 you have a false ideology.

00:50:38.880 And I think that's often what people see in the ultimate impotence of libertarianism or

00:50:43.860 the kind of soft liberalism that you see on the American right.

00:50:46.480 And I think that's what's really at stake in, in the Iran issue.

00:50:49.860 There are some ideologues who just want to reduce the Iran issue to a cartoon caricature.

00:50:55.780 You have some people who say, oh, this is just the, the Israelis dog walking.

00:51:00.240 I mean, you have some people on the really, the fringes who say that, you know, this is

00:51:04.460 just the, the Israelis owning our country and using us as their own military. 0.90

00:51:09.460 And America has absolutely no interest whatsoever in nuclear non-proliferation.

00:51:13.300 And usually those people just generally don't, don't care for the Jews broadly.

00:51:16.880 And so there's that cartoonish side.

00:51:19.540 Then there's another cartoonish side, which says, well, you know, the only way that we

00:51:24.300 can be free is if we topple the regime in Iran.

00:51:27.100 That's the only, they threaten our free, they hate us for our freedom.

00:51:30.000 And they pose an existential threat to us.

00:51:32.420 And we need to go glass the whole Middle East if we want to have our freedom. 0.97

00:51:35.200 That's, that's also not true.

00:51:36.400 But there is this nice place in the middle, which is called reality.

00:51:43.500 And that's where you have to weigh competing goods and where you have to try to have a

00:51:46.940 practical political solution.

00:51:49.060 You have on the one hand, these utopians who say, well, the president can never wield the

00:51:55.060 military as commander in chief ever whatsoever.

00:51:57.000 The Congress needs to declare every war.

00:51:58.480 And that's just not true.

00:52:00.480 On the other hand, you might have some people who say the president can do whatever he likes.

00:52:04.140 That's also not true.

00:52:04.900 There is a place in the middle beyond the stupid sophomoric procedural debates of the

00:52:13.360 ideologues.

00:52:13.960 There's a place in the middle for debating substantive goods.

00:52:16.880 And the way that you should check your ideology is to say, does my ideology permit me to do

00:52:22.300 what I know is obviously right?

00:52:25.820 Does my ideology permit me to avoid what I know is obviously bad?

00:52:32.180 For many people, they will say no.

00:52:34.900 Then get rid of that ideology and live in reality, in the real place of politics where the real

00:52:41.060 decisions are made, where real leaders have to grapple with real issues and competing apparent

00:52:46.580 goods.

00:52:47.180 That's where Trump is right now.

00:52:48.200 That's where our country is right now.

00:52:49.580 And it's why it's good to ditch ideology and ground your political views ultimately in God,

00:52:54.740 which is also what Trump is doing.

00:52:55.840 It's why his voice cracked a little bit.

00:52:57.120 Okay.

00:52:57.280 Today is Monday.

00:52:58.860 It is Music Monday.

00:52:59.960 The rest of the show continues now.

00:53:01.200 You don't want to miss this.

00:53:02.820 Become a member.

00:53:03.480 Use code Knowles, K-N-A-W-L-E-S at checkout for two months free on all annual plans.

00:53:06.820 Beppo Hot deliberates.

00:53:22.160 Bebole.

00:53:22.680 Bebole.

00:53:22.780 Come.

00:53:24.360 Bebole.

00:53:24.920 Bebole.

00:53:25.340 Bebole.

00:53:25.920 Bebole.

00:53:26.180 Bebole.

00:53:26.720 Bebole.

00:53:27.120 Bebole.

00:53:27.520 Bebole.

00:53:28.240 Bebole.

00:53:28.720 Bebole.

00:53:28.760 Bebole.

00:53:28.860 Bebole.

00:53:29.460 Bebole.

00:53:29.860 Bebole.

00:53:30.280 Bebole.

00:53:30.780 Bebole.

00:53:32.860 Bebole.

00:53:34.760 Do sho.

The Michael Knowles Show - June 23, 2025

Ep. 1760 - Fallout From Iran： Regime Change？

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