Ep. 1816 - Texts From The Charlie Kirk Assassin And His Trans Boyfriend REVEALED
Episode Stats
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152.80678
Summary
On September 9th, 2019, Charlie Kirk was murdered in front of his own apartment in Salt Lake City, Utah. On September 10th, a suspect identified as Luigi Mangione was arrested and charged with first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. However, new details emerged about his relationship with his alleged assassin and the suspect's trans-identifying boyfriend.
Transcript
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Newly revealed text messages between Charlie Kirk's alleged assassin and the suspect's
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trans-identifying boyfriend explain a lot about the suspect's state of mind before
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and after the shooting. In fact, they explain a little bit too much. We will get to how.
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Then, amid a nationwide crisis of left-wing political violence, a New York judge drops
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the top two charges against alleged left-wing terrorist Luigi Mangione. Finally, Attorney
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General Pambandi has conservatives scratching their heads as she promises to crack down on
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so-called hate speech. I'm Michael Knowles. This is The Michael Knowles Show.
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Welcome back to the show. A number of you have been asking about something for the past few days,
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and I was not able to give an answer previously, but now I can. You know, I was out in Phoenix
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yesterday visiting our friends at TPUSA and filling in for Charlie's show. I think Charlie is going to
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have friends filling in for his show for the foreseeable future because he still has this
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big radio show and they have to do the show. So, the bright side of that is that Charlie had about
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100 billion friends, like real friends, and so there will be people filling in for that, and
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it was great honor and privilege to be able to do it yesterday. While I was out there, I was able to
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get some clarity on something that a number of you have asked me about. Charlie and I were scheduled to
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speak together on campus at the University of Minneapolis this coming Monday, and so when Charlie
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was murdered, not my first thought, probably my 15th or 16th thought was, well, I guess the tour is
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canceled. I guess all of his speaking tour and his friends joining him on the tour and including my
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speech, and then I thought, well, actually, maybe it's not because I sure know Charlie would not want
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to back down from anything, and I know TPUSA probably wouldn't want to back down, but anyway, I wanted to get
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guidance from them first. So, I spoke yesterday with TPUSA, and they 100% want the speaking tour to
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go on, and I agree with that. I think that's totally right. The left wants to silence us, and we should
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not give them the satisfaction. Charlie certainly would not. TPUSA will not, and so Charlie's speaking
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tour will go on, and the first event now will be the event that Charlie and I were supposed to do
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together at the University of Minneapolis. That will be one day after his memorial service in Phoenix,
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and if you would like to come to that, you can go to Charlie's website, AmericanComebackTour.com.
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Obviously, we will have very serious security. You should reserve a ticket. You should plan to get there
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quite early to get in, but Charlie's tour will go on, so that will be the first stop since his
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assassination. I'm sure there will be more information to come from TPUSA on that, but
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I'll see you in Minneapolis next Monday. Okay, before we get to the new information about the
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Knowles, K-N-W-L-E-S, to 989898. The Utah County District Attorney came out yesterday. In fact, I had
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just gotten to TPSA when this press conference started, and so we were all just standing around
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watching it. Utah County DA read texts between the alleged shooter and the shooter's trans-identifying
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boyfriend here in the DA's own words. On September 10th, 2025, the roommate received a text message
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from Robinson, which said, drop what you're doing. Look under my keyboard. The roommate looked under the
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keyboard and found a note that stated, quote, I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk,
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and I'm going to take it. Police found a photograph of this note. The following exchange,
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text exchange, then took place. After reading the note, the roommate responded, what? You're joking,
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right? Robinson, I am still okay, my love, but am stuck in Orem for a little while longer yet.
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Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To be honest, I had hoped to
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keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry to involve you. Roommate, you weren't the one who did
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it, right? Robinson, I am, I am, I'm sorry. Roommate, I thought they caught the person. Robinson, no, they
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grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in similar clothing. I had planned to grab
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my rifle from my drop point shortly after, but most of that side of town got locked down. It's quiet,
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almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering. Roommate, why? Robinson, why did I do
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it? Roommate, yeah. Robinson, I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. If I am
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able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to retrieve it again.
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Hopefully, they have moved on. I haven't seen anything about them finding it. Roommate, how long
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have you been planning this? Robinson, a bit over a week, I believe. I can get close to it, but there
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is a squad car parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it.
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Robinson again, I'm wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon as I got to my vehicle.
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I'm worried what my old man would do if I didn't bring back grandpa's rifle.
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I-D-E-K, if it's had a serial number, but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about prints. I had
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to leave it in a bush where I changed outfits. Didn't have the ability or time to bring it with.
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I might have to abandon it and hope they don't find prints. How the F will I explain losing it to my
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old man? Only thing I left was the rifle wrapped in a towel. Remember how I was engraving bullets?
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The effing messages are mostly a big meme. If I see Notice Bulge UWU on Fox News, I might have a
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stroke all right. I'm going to have to leave it. That really effing sucks. Judging from today,
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I'd say grandpa's gun does just fine. I-D-K. I think that was a two, a two K dollar scope.
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Wink, wink. Robinson, Robinson again, delete this exchange. Again, Robinson, my dad wants photos of
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the rifle. He says grandpa wants to know who has what. The feds released a photo of the rifle and it
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is very unique. He's calling me, RN, not answering. Robinson, since Trump got into office, my dad has
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been pretty diehard MAGA. Robinson, I'm going to turn myself in willingly. One of my neighbors here
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is a deputy for the sheriff. Again, you are all I worry about, love. That came from Robinson. Roommate,
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I'm much more worried about you. Robinson, don't talk to the media, please. Don't take any interviews
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or make any comments. If any police ask you questions, ask for a lawyer and stay silent.
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Okay, that's a lot. I wanted to play it in full from the DA. The conclusion that we are supposed to
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draw from this is that the trans furry boyfriend roommate knew nothing about the alleged shooter's
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plans. I don't believe that. Do you believe that? I don't believe that. We are supposed to draw this
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conclusion because from this text exchange, the trans furry boyfriend roommate says that he didn't know
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and he's incredulous. He says, you're joking. It couldn't have been you, but just look at the texts.
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You are joking, right? I am still okay, my love. Shouldn't be long until I can come home. I'm sorry
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to involve you. I wanted to keep this secret till I died of old age, followed by all of that.
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You weren't the one who did it, right? It reads like fiction, but it reads like bad fiction.
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Not only do I think these people are liars, I think they are bad liars. I think they're not
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intelligent liars. I think they're very, very unimpressive people in most ways. I am, I am,
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I'm sorry. I thought they caught the person. No, they grabbed some crazy old dude. Look,
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maybe I want to leave open the possibility. Maybe this is real. These two people are obviously
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nuts and engage in all sorts of deviant behaviors and desires and disgusting ideologies. So could be
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they're obviously total freaks, but I don't believe it. Why? Why? Well, I thought I'd hidden all the
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evidence, but now I'm just going to lay out every single thing that supposedly happened
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in excruciating detail with a digital trace. A completely unerasable digital footprint that
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just coincidentally totally exonerates you and puts all the blame on me. Even though there is
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other digital evidence that's come out from the prosecutors that suggests that people had
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foreknowledge of this. Multiple people had foreknowledge of this attack. Even though there's
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other digital evidence that suggests that this guy and perhaps his trans furry boyfriend roommate
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were engaged in online communities of people inclined toward left-wing LGBT terror. Even though,
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even though, even though, no, no, it was just this guy and no one else knew anything about it.
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I will try to grab my rifle. I don't know what my old man would do. This is bad writing.
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There are a handful of people in America who might call their father their old man.
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Not even I. I'm pretty right-wing. I'm pretty conservative. I'm pretty fuddy-duddy. I own a
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lot of tweed and bow ties. Even I'm not going to say, Miles, I was talking to my old man today. It's
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just reads like fiction. Just reads like a romantic narrative that they're trying to spin up to cover
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their tracks. I don't believe that for a second. My grandpa's rifle is pretty unique. Pretty unique.
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It's like the most generic hunting rifle you've ever seen in your entire life. It's pretty unique,
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but it's my uncle's rifle. I think it was a $2,000 scope. Yeah, maybe, maybe not.
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I'm only concerned about you. Delete this exchange. I'm so concerned that this exchange will be
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discovered. I'm going to lay out every element of the crime in excruciating detail, but make sure no
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one finds this. I don't buy it. I think that this was cooked up by these two to cover the tracks of
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the trans, furry, gay, boyfriend, whatever. And I think there's more to the story than this.
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At the very least, though, I think we have to acknowledge this. This is a text exchange between
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these two people. I think we have to acknowledge all of the evidence, the overwhelming amount of
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evidence points to at least this guy having committed the crime. The fingerprints and the
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videos and the pictures and the alleged reported confessions and the everything says it was at least
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him. So the question is not, in my mind at least, is there good evidence that this guy did it?
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It seems to me he did it. The question is not, is this guy on the left or the right? Not many
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conservatives have trans, furry boyfriend roommates. Not many conservatives write, catch this fascist.
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Not many conservatives write weird sexual furry memes on bullets. Not many right-wingers write
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ant, antifa songs from mid-century Italy. But on that point, if the trans, furry boyfriend didn't
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know anything about the shooting, why would the alleged shooter bring up engraving the bullets
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as something that the trans, furry boyfriend would know about? He says, you remember those engraved
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bullets? Hold on, I thought the boyfriend didn't know anything about it. What did he think? You were
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engraving bullets for your art project? I don't buy it for a second. I think the boyfriend knew.
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I think pretty clearly a number of people knew beforehand. So good, get the guy, prosecute him
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to the absolute fullest extent of the law, no question. I want to see other prosecutions.
00:15:09.680
I want to see other arrests. I want to see other prosecutions.
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I at least have seen more than enough evidence to point to a conspiracy, to point to LGBT crime and
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terrorism, to point to far left crime and terrorism. I want to see more arrests. Because
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if with the publicly released information you can see that, I have to imagine the investigators are
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seeing that too. Yeah. Throw the book at this guy. Throw the book at other people too.
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Okay. There's, just when you think you have lost every ounce of respect that you had for the
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establishment media, they somehow managed to degrade themselves even further. Their reaction to this
00:15:56.420
text exchange is nauseating. We'll get to that momentarily. First, I want to tell you about
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Here's how ABC News responded to the revelation of the texts between the suspect and his trans furry
00:17:33.600
boyfriend. We have seen an alleged murder with such specific text messages about the alleged
00:17:42.460
murder weapon, where it was hidden, how it was placed, what was on it. But also, it was very
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touching in a way that I think many of us didn't expect. A very intimate portrait into this
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relationship between the suspect's roommate and the suspect himself with him repeatedly calling his
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roommate who was transitioning, calling him my love, and I want to protect you, my love.
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So it was this duality of someone who the attorney said not only jeopardized the life of Charlie Kirk
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and the crowd, but was doing it in front of children, which is one of the aggravating circumstances
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of this case. And on the other hand, he was speaking so lovingly about his partner. So a very
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interesting and, as Pierre said, riveting press conference, David.
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What? I think, I can't even do an impression of it. It's so messed up, this guy's reaction.
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What did he say? He said, you know, the text exchanges, they were really very touching in a
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way we wouldn't have expected, really touched my heart, really made me just go tingle.
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When I read the exchanges between the terrorist and his freak, tranny, furry
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sexual partner, did that make you go tingle? Maybe we got a lot of freaks in this country.
00:19:00.380
This ABC reporter, man, what on earth? That's the kind of thing you find touching and heartwarming?
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Maybe we need to look into this guy's social media. If your reaction to that text exchange
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is anything other than revulsion to the point of vomiting, to the point of potentially losing
00:19:23.820
your lunch, then you have something messed up in your view of eros, in your view of human
00:19:29.180
relations, in your view of love. There's something messed up with you and you need to get it fixed
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because this is revolting, completely revolting. Even the thought, even the memory of my feeling
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when I read that text exchange is itself nauseating. You find that delightful? Is that, that's just
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a regular Romeo and Juliet story for you? Oh, it's so sweet. William and Kate, what's the matter
00:19:58.120
with you? What is the matter with you? What kind of sick freak are you that that would be your
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reaction? It's very touching. And it's so unexpected. Is it unexpected? I don't know.
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In like most killer horror movies of the last century, isn't the killer often a tranny?
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Isn't that often? I hate to speak so bluntly. They're probably going to have to cut a lot
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of this out of YouTube, but it's like Buffalo Bill and Psycho and all. It's Ed Gein.
00:20:30.020
All it. There is a strange association between the transgender identity and sexual deviance more
00:20:39.280
broadly and violence. Isn't there? The last three big violent incidents that we can recall
00:20:47.540
were all trannies shooting people. Shooting Christians. There was the, there was the tranny
00:20:55.020
in Nashville who shot up Covenant, the Presbyterian school. There was the tranny in Minneapolis.
00:21:01.360
Was it Minneapolis? I guess there's so many, it's like, you almost can't even remember it.
00:21:05.960
It shot up the Catholic school. The little kids praying at mass. And now this is one step removed,
00:21:13.100
I guess. This is the gay boyfriend of the tranny furry roommate. I don't know. It seems like there's
00:21:21.920
some kind of connection between extreme sexual deviance. Trantifa is one of these groups that's
00:21:30.520
come up in this investigation between extreme sexual deviance and violence. It's just so sweet.
00:21:38.200
You know, this, it's just so, it's so touching, isn't it? No. So unexpected. No, it's expected.
00:21:44.400
These are the people I expect to do these things. Not saying every sexual deviant is going to go
00:21:50.540
commit mass violence, but it does seem that they do so disproportionately, doesn't it?
00:21:56.480
Hollywood has long thought so. Crime reports have long thought so. So unexpected.
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You know where this is going. You know, the narrative that the establishment media are setting
00:22:07.460
up. The narrative that they're setting up is that these people had, they were engaging in a love
00:22:14.400
that dare not speak its name. And because of the hate promoted by the likes of Charlie Kirk,
00:22:19.740
they had to protect their loves, their communities by murdering the guy because of the hate. What is
00:22:26.640
the hate that was referenced in the text exchanges? The hate is Charlie Kirk going to college campuses
00:22:31.860
and bringing up Matt Walsh's movie, basically. That's the hate. That's the trans hate that
00:22:37.480
they're referring to. Is Charlie Kirk showing up generously, graciously, with a great deal of
00:22:43.700
charity and saying, hey, can you define what a woman is? Oh, you can't? Well, maybe that shows that
00:22:48.420
you're a little confused about the relation of men and women, the nature of men and women. And maybe
00:22:52.760
I would encourage you to engage in healthy, normal behaviors, or at the very least to recognize
00:22:58.000
basic reality. That's the hate. That's the hate. Have you ever heard a more hateful thing from Charlie
00:23:03.500
Kirk? Can you name one thing? I don't think so. And then somehow it gets even stranger because as
00:23:10.740
referenced in those texts, there was this diversion guy. There was this old man who diverted the
00:23:15.480
attention of law enforcement immediately after the shooting, an old man who claimed to be the shooter
00:23:21.660
shooter and helped the actual shooter get away. And then it turned out that that guy was not the
00:23:28.880
shooter. And now it turns out that guy is a little bit of a sexual deviant too. We'll get to that
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order. This is where things are getting really, really, it was already quite weird. And they're
00:24:55.700
getting really, really, really weird. The diversion guy. Do you remember the diversion guy? Here's a
00:25:00.320
video of the diversion guy. Immediately after the shooting, the police are trying to figure out
00:25:04.100
what's going on, who was involved. And they arrest this old man in a blue shirt.
00:25:23.080
They're dragging him. I said, shoot me, shoot me. He's got his pants around his ankles.
00:25:28.600
How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? So initially, people thought this was the
00:25:37.660
shooter. I thought it was weird because he doesn't look like the kind of guy I would have expected to
00:25:40.580
be the shooter. But that's what everyone thought at first. Then it turns out, all right, we've seen
00:25:45.420
enough. Then it turns out, he's not the shooter. He admits to officers that he was just trying to
00:25:54.260
create a distraction so that the real shooter could get away. What? So then this raises another
00:26:02.060
question. Did he know that there was going to be, did he have foreknowledge? Even if he didn't,
00:26:07.940
there were plenty of Charlie's enemies who showed up to these speeches. His first reaction after seeing
00:26:12.980
Charlie Kirk murdered was to create a diversion. That's some pretty quick thinking. That's pretty
00:26:17.340
strange. And then it gets even stranger because he admits to the authorities that he was trying to
00:26:22.500
obstruct justice. So he's got that charge on him. The cops start looking through his phone.
00:26:27.120
And what do they find on his phone? You guessed it. Child sexual abuse material.
00:26:35.120
So the diversion guy is a pedo. The diversion guy was there in the first place and at the very least
00:26:43.860
thought quickly to make a diversion. To try to let the shooter get away, then the shooter is apprehended
00:26:51.920
anyway. But these texts are discovered between the shooter and the transferee boyfriend that seem to
00:26:56.960
exonerate the transferee boyfriend. And it would appear to me that the thrust from the messages is
00:27:03.200
this was the only guy involved. And once again, all of the evidence that I'm seeing tells me
00:27:09.920
not to believe that. The discord, the radical left-wing groups, the radical LGBT groups.
00:27:19.640
Maybe it's just a coincidence, but this sexual deviant who was a decoy.
00:27:25.800
Maybe not an intentional decoy, but he ended up acting as a decoy.
00:27:30.840
There is much, much more to this story than we've learned so far, as I'm sure the investigators know.
00:27:35.920
On top of this, you have left-wing terrorism in basically its purest form. Terrorism,
00:27:43.160
which is the targeting of civilians to advance political ends. You have the Charlie Kirk assassination,
00:27:50.640
which is terrorism as purely as I can see it. Then this follows the Luigi Mangione left-wing terror.
00:27:59.260
This is a guy who, for ideological reasons, murdered a healthcare CEO in New York City.
00:28:07.420
Right in midtown Manhattan, coincidentally, I was staying a few blocks away when it happened that
00:28:11.220
morning, murders him for ideological reasons. This wasn't a crime of passion. It was premeditated.
00:28:17.620
It wasn't because he had a personal grudge against this guy. It was premeditated because
00:28:22.520
he had a grudge against healthcare workers generally for political ideological reasons.
00:28:28.720
It was a clear example of left-wing violence, cheered on by many people explicitly on the left.
00:28:34.080
And a judge yesterday, amid all of this, amid the clearest left-wing terror attack we've faced
00:28:40.120
in our country's history, at least in 60 years, a judge in New York dismisses the top two charges
00:28:49.000
against Luigi Mangione, the charges relating to terrorism. Dismissed murder in the first degree
00:28:55.140
and furtherance of an act of terrorism. Dismissed murder in the second degree as a crime of terrorism.
00:29:01.840
Mangione still faces a count of second-degree murder. Second-degree murder? What?
00:29:07.700
Could result in 25 years to life, though potentially with parole, so he could get off much,
00:29:13.140
much sooner. He's a young man. And there is a separate federal death penalty prosecution,
00:29:18.140
which is always hard. According to the judge, there was no evidence presented of a desire to
00:29:24.500
terrorize the public, inspire widespread fear, engage in a broader campaign of violence,
00:29:27.780
or to conspire with organized terrorist groups. Here's how the crowd reacted outside the courtroom.
00:29:33.000
So you can see for the people who are only listening right now, you see them wearing Luigi hats from Mario and Luigi.
00:29:57.320
There's a sign in the background, invading against fascists, quote-unquote, naming Seb Gorka,
00:30:04.860
who's Trump's counter-terror director, and Pam Bondi, the attorney general.
00:30:10.020
So it would seem to me that the reaction of the crowd is the proof that the judge made the wrong decision.
00:30:16.680
Because Luigi Mangione's crime obviously has inspired ideological terrorism,
00:30:25.680
the targeting of civilians. You're going to see two names right there, Pam Bondi and Seb Gorka.
00:30:31.280
Civilians in the furtherance of a political agenda.
00:30:40.140
Does anyone seriously think Luigi Mangione killed the healthcare CEO whom he had never met before,
00:30:44.880
who he didn't know from Adam, because he just didn't like the cut of his jib?
00:30:49.900
Does anyone seriously think it was a crime of passion, this obviously premeditated murder?
00:30:58.360
And the judge in New York says, no, no it wasn't.
00:31:01.620
And what this furthers is the issue that we've been talking about the past few days.
00:31:07.320
The authorities will not count left-wing terrorism as terrorism.
00:31:16.120
That's how you get these numbers that that joker, Seth Moulton, the Democrat congressman,
00:31:23.260
He said three quarters of political extremist violence in America is from the right, not from the left.
00:31:31.160
BLM killed dozens of people, and the transvestites keep shooting everybody, and Luigi.
00:31:37.960
And then I even thought, just in my personal experience, Antifa showed up to blow up an event
00:31:43.860
that I spoke at on transgenderism actually at the University of Pittsburgh,
00:31:50.200
There was the trans shooting here in Nashville.
00:31:54.520
I realized they didn't count them as left-wing terrorism, or left-wing extremism, or left-wing anything.
00:32:03.280
They would say, oh, no, it was actually more obstruction of justice.
00:32:09.680
And you see a repeat of that in the Luigi case.
00:32:13.560
Shameful, shameful behavior from the judge, especially at this moment.
00:32:17.580
Real problem for law enforcement, and the federal government needs to do something about it.
00:32:25.140
But speaking of law enforcement from the federal level, amid all of this conversation, amid unity on the right,
00:32:32.800
amid a recognition that the left, and not just the fringe left, but the mainstream left,
00:32:37.180
would encourage and celebrate the murder of half of this country,
00:32:40.920
The attorney general raised a lot of eyebrows by going on TV and promising to clamp down on hate speech.
00:32:53.320
There's free speech, and then there's hate speech.
00:32:56.000
And there is no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie, in our society.
00:33:02.660
Do you see more law enforcement going after these groups who are using hate speech and putting cuffs on people
00:33:10.400
so we show them that some action is better than no action?
00:33:13.620
We will absolutely target you, go after you, if you are targeting anyone with hate speech, anything.
00:33:24.960
I'm not exaggerating when I tell you, with the exception of Pam Bondi, apparently,
00:33:30.340
there is not one conservative in America who believes that there is a distinction between free speech and hate speech,
00:33:38.940
and that hate speech needs to be prosecuted by the federal government.
00:33:41.980
There is not one, apparently, other than the attorney general.
00:33:45.720
In fact, Charlie quite explicitly mocked and derided the notion of hate speech as some category that we need to prosecute.
00:34:00.800
I don't have anything against Pam Bondi personally.
00:34:11.600
I wrote a book about how the American free speech tradition has been hijacked from the left,
00:34:26.860
The proper limits on speech are the kind of speech, for instance, that undermines speech,
00:34:33.700
speech like fraud, which undermines trust in speech in the marketplace of ideas.
00:34:38.660
Things like direct threats, which actually discourage speech, which discourage healthy debate.
00:34:45.100
Things like obscenity, which appeal to the prurient interest and discourage reasonable discourse.
00:34:51.720
This goes all the way back in American history.
00:34:53.420
Furthermore, the limits might be set around the axioms upon which healthy debate must rest.
00:35:11.100
Things like what C.S. Lewis would call the Tao, what others have called the first principles of practical reason.
00:35:19.000
The example, I think, that comes to mind for a lot of us this week is celebrating the murder of an innocent man,
00:35:27.680
Because if one is to do that, one would be dramatically reducing the likelihood of healthy discourse in the country.
00:35:33.680
You can't have a business where people go in and believe that half of the business would encourage their own murder.
00:35:42.220
However, you can't have hospitals that operate that way, schools that operate that way, restaurants that operate that way.
00:36:03.420
The one thing it's not is quote-unquote hate speech.
00:36:09.240
We will get to the rest of the attorney general's remarks in a moment.
00:36:12.020
First, my favorite comment yesterday is from Druid4438, who says,
00:36:17.700
The issue is we now know 45% of the population will cheer and celebrate if 50% of the population were murdered.
00:36:24.740
There are many layers to the grief and mourning around Charlie.
00:36:31.100
A big part of it for a lot of people is Facebook and the comments that co-workers are making at the water cooler
00:36:37.300
and the comments that teachers are making in the classroom.
00:36:40.840
The fact that we can't even agree that it's wrong to murder an innocent man for trying to talk it out.
00:36:48.100
The recognition that some of your cousins would murder you, would dance on your grave.
00:36:54.240
That is a surprise to millions of people, actually.
00:36:58.520
Okay, so Pam Bondi makes these remarks that raise eyebrows all across the country.
00:37:05.860
And then she goes on to explain a little bit more about what she means.
00:37:11.620
It's free speech, but you shouldn't be employed anywhere if you're going to say that.
00:37:15.240
And employers, you have an obligation to get rid of people.
00:37:17.680
You need to look at people who are saying horrible things.
00:37:23.520
If you want to go in and print posters with Charlie's pictures on them for a vigil, you have to let them do that.
00:37:31.360
I have Harmeet Dillon right now in our civil rights unit looking at that immediately that Office Depot had done that.
00:37:42.640
Businesses not only can, but really should fire people for celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk.
00:37:52.860
But then she goes on, she says, we're going to prosecute or you can sue Office Depot for refusing to print a flyer that, you know, they don't want to print or something.
00:38:06.160
This is a little bit murkier because we have just spent years and years defending Jack Phillips who said that he didn't want to participate in so-called gay weddings.
00:38:16.520
Or transgender transition rituals by creating custom baked goods to participate in those.
00:38:23.220
And the right has vigorously defended Jack Phillips who's finally exonerated after 12 years of harassment.
00:38:29.480
There was a distinction here because Phillips said, look, someone who identifies as a homosexual or a transgender or whatever can come into my bakery and purchase anything that they want.
00:38:41.660
And I'm not going to refuse service, and I'm not allowed to refuse service, but I wouldn't want to even if I were.
00:38:47.700
However, what they cannot do is compel me to use my artistic skill to participate in something that I find morally objectionable.
00:38:57.900
In the case of Jack Phillips, it's basically you can buy the pre-made cake, but I'm not making you a custom cake to celebrate the thing that I find immoral.
00:39:09.240
If you're just talking about printing something, you know, you go up to the printer and you print something, it's not clear to me that the federal government has the right to prosecute or that plaintiffs have the right to sue if Office Depot doesn't want to do that.
00:39:28.760
Maybe, I mean, I'm not like totally, but certainly if it were a client going to a print shop and saying,
00:39:35.900
I need you to design me some kind of poster that I want, that the design shop finds morally objectionable.
00:39:42.680
There, now you're completely undercutting the right-wing argument on religious liberty that we've had for over a decade now.
00:39:51.740
She's right about employers firing people for celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk.
00:39:56.680
She's right about that, but it's just so imprecise.
00:39:59.160
This really, the whole day was really unhelpful, these sorts of comments.
00:40:03.880
And they've since walked them back and they said, no, we're not going to go after hate speech.
00:40:10.860
And I don't mean to beat up on the attorney general too much.
00:40:22.720
This is a major national trauma with very, very clear political lines, with very, very high political stakes.
00:40:34.760
And what we do now and what we do tomorrow and the tone that we set and the concrete actions that we begin to take
00:40:41.700
and the arguments that we make right now matter tremendously.
00:40:46.660
And they are going to shape our political order for decades to come.
00:40:50.120
And we can't be making these kinds of mistakes.
00:40:54.680
So we need to figure it out, get on the same page, be precise, be unified, and move forward together.
00:41:04.720
The toleration that we would have for these kinds of political fumbles, unforced errors that we might have had three weeks ago, four weeks ago,
00:41:21.580
This is the thing that the attorney general said that's totally right.
00:41:24.840
There need to be consequences from employers as well as from schools.
00:41:28.720
There's a young man at Texas State who, during a vigil for Charlie Kirk, a memorial service,
00:41:38.820
For those just listening, he not only mocks Charlie's being shot,
00:42:08.760
but he climbs up onto a statue at this vigil and mocks it, acts it out up there.
00:42:15.080
I'm very, very pleased to report that Texas State has said that he has been expelled from the school.
00:42:21.720
This from the Texas State President, Dr. Kelly Damphaus, follow-up to a message I sent earlier.
00:42:30.360
The university has identified the student in the disturbing video.
00:42:33.480
I will not tolerate behavior that mocks trivializes or promotes violence on our campuses.
00:42:41.240
The individual is no longer a student at Texas State.
00:42:44.000
Federal law prevents the university from commenting further on individual student conduct matters.
00:42:48.360
I'm really glad to see this, and I'm glad to see this explanation.
00:42:54.060
The president says, I will not tolerate behavior that mocks, trivializes, or promotes violence on our campuses
00:42:59.900
because universities are supposed to be places for the exchange of ideas, sure,
00:43:13.720
They're not even just places for the exchange of ideas.
00:43:17.460
That's not primarily what the university is for.
00:43:19.460
That's not ultimately what the university is for.
00:43:21.220
The university is ultimately for the promotion of truth.
00:43:26.020
And one way that we arrive at truth in some universities is the open exchange of ideas.
00:43:32.480
However you think of it, what this student did totally undercuts that.
00:43:39.760
From a basic level, if you watch that video for three seconds,
00:43:46.620
This guy has absolutely no business being at a university.
00:43:49.860
It is a national disgrace that a university would have admitted him.
00:43:53.260
Something tells me the warning signs were there.
00:43:56.440
Something tells me this is not exactly a Rhodes Scholar, okay?
00:43:59.840
Something tells me he wasn't valedictorian and president of the student body.
00:44:10.140
There are places for him in society, not polite society, not really public society, but he can do things.
00:44:20.260
And really anyone who encouraged this kid as a senior in high school to go to a university or college is culpable in my view.
00:44:32.920
Anyone who engages in this kind of behavior should be expelled.
00:44:40.620
Anyone who engages in this kind of behavior should be fired from, certainly from public-facing businesses, businesses involving education and service and healthcare.
00:44:52.900
Anyone who engages in this kind of behavior should be deplatformed.
00:45:02.280
You'll see some people on the left, very ignorant people on the left, say, well, this is the right turning on free speech.
00:45:09.520
This is the right changing its tune on free speech.
00:45:11.420
I have not changed my tune on free speech one little bit.
00:45:14.980
And serious people on the right are not changing their tune on free speech one little bit.
00:45:19.040
Free marketplace, all marketplaces require rules, and all liberty requires order.
00:45:27.860
And all society requires responsibility and duties and consequences.
00:45:38.540
One guy who calls himself Destiny, his name is Stephen Bunnell.
00:45:43.420
These are pretty prominent left-wing streamers who have encouraged violence repeatedly against conservatives.
00:45:49.040
They should be fully deplatformed from social media.
00:45:55.140
Stephen Bunnell, I believe was some time ago, deplatformed from Twitch.
00:46:05.300
He should be deplatformed from Instagram and Facebook, as should Hassan Piker.
00:46:09.060
They should be fully deplatformed from the public square.
00:46:12.760
They have no business being in the public square.
00:46:14.540
Their presence there undermines the public square and the exchange of ideas.
00:46:20.960
That is not contrary to the American tradition of free speech.
00:46:24.020
That is a defense of the free exchange of ideas.
00:46:28.680
Because their presence there undercuts all of those things.
00:46:32.240
And conservatives need to get with the program and need to pull themselves out of utopian false ideologies and get back to the reality of politics and the reality of the American tradition and the reality of what free speech has meant for the periods during which our country has flourished.
00:47:02.520
Are you serious about defending the robust exchange of ideas?
00:47:07.540
Are you serious about political reform in the wake of the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the widespread left-wing celebration of that assassination?
00:47:16.140
Then deplatformed Stephen Bunnell from everything.
00:47:21.560
And big tech platforms that will not do that, it seems to me, are quite clearly not serious about it.
00:47:28.120
We will be chatting a little more in the member room segmentum.