Ep. 1819 - "I Forgive Him": Over 100 Million View Charlie Kirk's Memorial
Episode Stats
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Summary
Charlie Kirk's widow, Erica, forgave her husband's assassin in one of the most powerful speeches I've ever heard in my life. She said, "I forgive him. They do not know what they do, but I forgive them. They are grown men who are not given to sentiment or anything like that."
Transcript
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Hundreds of thousands of people, including virtually the entire U.S. government, turned up
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to Phoenix for Charlie Kirk's memorial, which was one of the most remarkable events I've ever seen,
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much less attended. Charlie's widow, Erica, gave one of the most powerful speeches I've ever heard
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in my life. Not any of these statements has even a hint of hyperbole. We will get into all of it,
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including the most significant aspect of an already remarkable memorial, namely that the
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top leaders of our nation, which started out Christian, which started out Christian, but which
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has become quite secular and even hostile to Christianity and the faith of our founding for
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at least my entire life, spent five hours proclaiming the gospel. I'm Michael Knowles. This is The Michael Knowles Show.
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Welcome back to the show. President Trump cures autism. This could be absolutely devastating
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to the online right. What will happen to online conservatives if autism goes away? No, I'm
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joking. There is really great news. We'll get to what that means. First, though, I want to tell you
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promo code Knowles. I'm now in Minneapolis. I'm no longer in Phoenix. I flew last night from Phoenix
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to Minneapolis because Charlie and I had an event at the University of Minneapolis today,
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and the event will go on. TPUSA said that the speaking tour will go on. I thought that was the
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right decision. We will not let these people silence us. So we'll be at what Charlie called
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the University of Mogadishu, the last time that he and I were on air together. We will now,
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of course, not be having a conversation between me and Charlie, but I will be having a conversation
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with the audience about Charlie. But we will also have an open discussion. People who disagree can
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cut to the front of the line. That will be at the University of Minnesota tonight. I'll just get
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right into the biggest, most shocking news, the clip that broke the internet, just the most soul-stirring
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moment many of us have seen in a very, very long time, which was when Charlie's widow, Erica,
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got up on the stage at the memorial yesterday and forgave her husband's assassin.
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Father, forgive them for they not know what they do. That man, that young man,
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I was sitting there with some of the toughest politicians in the world. These are grown men
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who are not given to sappy sentiment or anything like that. I don't think there was a dry high in
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the house. There were many such moments in Erica's speech when, even for those of us who are a little
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tough, a little jaded, the water comes right to the eyes. But that moment, even just seeing it again,
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even just thinking about it, brings tears back to the eyes. That is a glimpse of Calvary.
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That is a woman living out her Christian faith.
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And there's a big misunderstanding, I think, about what this means, especially in our secular
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culture. We used to be a Christian nation. We used to understand what that meant. Now we live
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in a secular culture. Most people don't even understand what it means to forgive your enemies,
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to love your enemies. A lot of people think that forgiving your enemies means you just let them off
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the hook. Erica Kirk forgave that man yesterday. If he is convicted, the state of Utah will inject him
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with poison until he's dead. Both of those things are true. Forgiving your enemies is something that
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we're called to do because vengeance belongs to the Lord. Vengeance is mine, says the Lord, and I will
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repay. When we have a personal enemy and when we hate our personal enemies, then we find ourselves
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falling into sin because we are commanded by our Lord to love our enemies and because charity is a
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theological virtue. We all sin. We all fall short of the glory of God. Our Lord commands us to pray,
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the Our Father prayer, to ask our Father to forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against
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us. So in as much as we forgive the trespasses that others commit against us, so too our Lord will
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forgive our sins. That's the personal side of things. Justice remains. The civil authority still
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doesn't bear the sword in vain. The government is there appointed by God for our own good.
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That is true also. And so when we forgive our personal enemies, the common good, the political
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matter, the question of justice remains. And even that is for the person's own good. I mean, this is
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also where people misunderstand what it means to love your enemies. Because we in our modern culture think
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that love is just some happy, clappy thing where, you know, you hold hands or you write each other
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poems or you, but that's not it. You have a warm and fuzzy feeling. That's not what love is.
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Love has a precise definition. Love is willing the good of the other. So when Erica says, I forgive
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this man, what she's saying is, I don't want to, I don't want to torture you until you're dead.
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I don't want to inflict as much pain on you as possible just to try to vent my frustration
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because that won't do anything. And it's just a very practical matter that won't do anything.
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Eventually that guy will die and it won't matter. And then you will have been contorted
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into a darkened will that is bereft of love. So it, it doesn't really hurt the other guy all that
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much. And it does hurt you. This actually relates to what we were discussing last week from Plato's
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Gorgias, which is, which is his, uh, treatise on, uh, justice, which one of his treatises on justice,
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but a treatise on, on how we deal with criminals, how it's in fact, how it is better for the criminal
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to be punished than for the criminal to get off the hook. It's better even for the criminal.
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So when we will the good of the other, as in the case of this assassin, we're saying, look,
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I don't want to, I don't want to torture you. I don't want to, I don't hate you. I don't will
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the opposite of your good, which we could not do. That would be sinful for us. I will your good.
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And in the case of this killer, the state of Utah says that what is good for the killer
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is to face capital punishment. And I agree with that. What is good for the killer, what is good
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for society to protect society from the killer is for the person to be killed. What is good for
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future people who might be considering a political assassination is to see that the political
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assassins are killed, but also what is good for the killer. Because as Dr. Johnson says,
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depend upon it, sir. When a man knows he's to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind
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wonderfully. There are people, there've been many people who've been in prison, who've been on death
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row, who are looking at the gallows and say, well, I have to get my life in order. I have to convert.
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That is good for that person's soul. So there's no, no contradiction whatsoever. It's an,
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that was an amazing example yesterday of Christian charity. And in Christian charity,
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you, you see even more clearly justice. One last point on Erica. When she said that,
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notice everyone in the stadium stood up. This shows you the political divide. The left is trying
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to both sides. This leftists keep killing us. They just keep, they keep targeting us. They keep
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killing us with political violence, widespread political violence like BLM, targeted political
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violence like the assassination of Charlie Kirk, sexually deviant political violence like the
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many shootings of trans-identifying people, by trans-identifying people against non-trans-identifying
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people, and the religious violence, the consistent attacks on Christians. You are seeing very,
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very large scale political violence coming from the left. And how does the right respond?
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We pray for their good. We forgive them. We forgive them as a personal matter. We need justice. We
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need a greater enactment of justice, but we forgive them as a personal matter. Of course, on the flip
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side, you see the opposite. You see, you see conservatives and Christians doing ordinary things. In fact,
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doing and stating matters of virtue. I believe in marriage. I don't think a man can become a woman.
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I think nations should have borders. It's normal kind of stuff. And how does the left react? I think
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criminals should be arrested, for example. And how does the left react? The left reacts by rioting and
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murdering and robbing and looting and all the rest of it. The difference could not be more stark.
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And this is very fitting for Charlie, because Charlie was a man of stark contrasts. Not that he himself,
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he was pretty clear. He was a Boy Scout. He was a Christian. He didn't drink. He didn't smoke. He
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was pretty clear. Didn't go to school. Somehow founded the biggest youth organization, campus
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organization in the country. But he painted a stark picture of the world. Said there's truth and
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there's falsehood. You should pick truth, not falsehood. There's good and there's bad. And you
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should do the good stuff and not the bad stuff. It's very, very clear, very helpful, because clarity
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is charity. And in this case, it's clear. If yesterday's memorial didn't show it to you with
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the cultural right and the political right, obviously, the whole top of the government,
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if that didn't show it to you, I don't know what will. No one is good. No, not one. But if you're
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looking as a political matter at which side is the good side and which side is the bad side,
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that's the good side. And the leftists and the radicals and the sexual ideologues and the deviants
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and the violent people, that's the bad side. The choice is that simple. The guys who in the
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political debates wear the red ties and the American flags, they're on the good side. And the ones who
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with the weird imagery, yelling the weird things, they're the bad side. It's simple as that.
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It really, it really doesn't have to be much more complicated. Now, speaking of that political
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order, after Erica gives this amazing display of Christian charity, President Trump gets up there
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and he apparently gives the alternative point of view, although it's more complicated than that.
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slash America to discover more. Erica gets up, shows so beautifully how to love your enemies.
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Here's what President Trump says. Missionary with a noble spirit and a great, great purpose.
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He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them. That's where I disagreed with Charlie.
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I hate my opponent and I don't want the best for them. I'm sorry. I am sorry, Erica. But now Erica can
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talk to me and the whole group and maybe they can convince me that that's not right, but I can't stand
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my opponent. Charlie's angry looking down. He's angry at me now.
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I loved this bit. And I know that's an unpopular view. I loved this bit. Some people hated it.
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Trump's critics, of course, hated it. But even I saw a lot of Christians hated this. They said,
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Trump is preaching an anti-gospel. This is the opposite of the message of Christ. Pay more
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attention, folks. You're not listening. You didn't hear that. Maybe, I don't know, maybe it's because
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I'm a New Yorker by birth and upbringing. Maybe I speak this language a little bit better.
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If your takeaway from President Trump's statement was this is contrary to the message of the gospel,
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you, I don't know, you got to get the cotton out of your ears. You misheard something.
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What does he say? He said in his eulogy to Charlie, where he's saying all the good things about Charlie,
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he says Charlie didn't hate his enemies. He loved his enemies. And then he goes off the cuff. He says,
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and that's where I disagreed with Charlie. Because me, I hate my enemies. I hate them.
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I don't wish what's best for them. I wish what's worst for them. Everyone laughs. And then what does
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he say? He says, but maybe Erica can, she can have a talking to with me. Because, you know,
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and I know Charlie's looking down. He's angry at me. In other words, Charlie's in heaven. His idea was
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the right idea. What I do is the bad thing. But it's very human. And we all fall prey to these
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temptations because it's a fallen human nature. And I'm, me, I'm not as good as Charlie. Charlie is
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the good one. Erica is the good one. Me, I'm not as good. And they got to talk to me. And I know,
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Charlie, I'm sorry. I know you're angry with me. Maybe I'll try to do better. I'm just confessing
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to you that I hate my enemies. That is a very Christian statement. That is a deeply Christian
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statement. And the people who misheard it, you just, I don't know, you need a little levity or
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something. G.K. Chesterton said the angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly.
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What would have been dishonest, which would have been contrary to the Christian spirit,
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would be if Donald Trump got up there and he said, and I too, like all the politicians,
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oh, and I love my enemies, holier than thou, pious, but it's not real.
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For a lot of them, it's not real. That would be a lie. That would be contrary to the Christian
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spirit. Some holier than thou kind of speech from someone who is personally depraved,
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that would be contrary to the Christian spirit. Pretending you're so much better than you really
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are. Trump, if anything, does the opposite. He pretends to be a little worse than he is.
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I don't think that he's a really bad guy. But he goes out there. Do you remember,
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I use this example a lot. He was asked if he was going to have a beer, I think for St.
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Patty's Day or something. He said, nah, I've never had a beer. It's the only good thing you
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can say about me. Can you imagine if I drank, I'd be the worst. That's a statement of humility.
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This is a statement of humility. Yeah. Hey guys, I'm a human and I hate my enemies. I hate them.
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I am tempted to hate them and I don't want to wish their best. I wish they're, I hate them,
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but I know that's wrong. I'm telling you that's wrong. What Charlie and Erica are doing are better.
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That's why I'm saying Charlie's in heaven right now. I got to do better. Lord have mercy on me,
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a sinner. That's what he's saying. He's making people laugh. There's a little levity while he's
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doing it. It's okay. We can laugh. It's not. Now there were so many good speeches yesterday. I'm
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not going to be able to get to all of them. Just a little, a little smattering of what was said.
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Stephen Miller, I thought gave, gave a rousing political call very much in the spirit of Charlie
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and Stephen Miller, deputy white house chief of staff was very, very close with Charlie. And
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he, he, he did what he does best. We will prevail over the forces of wickedness and evil.
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They cannot imagine what they have awakened. They cannot conceive of the army that they have arisen.
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In all of us, because we stand for what is good, what is virtuous, what is noble. And to those
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trying to incite violence against us, those trying to foment hatred against us, what do you have?
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You have nothing. You are nothing. You are wickedness. You are jealousy. You are envy.
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You are hatred. You are nothing. You can build nothing. You can produce nothing. You can create
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nothing. We are the ones who build. We are the ones who create. We are the ones who lift up humanity.
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You thought you could kill Charlie Kirk. You have made him immortal. You have immortalized Charlie
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Kirk. And now millions will carry on his legacy.
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I was sitting next to a guy, kind of a prominent person. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to say who
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it was. He turns to me after Stephen's speech. He goes, man, the Jews really do the old Testament
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better. This guy was not, was not Jewish. It says the Jews really do the old Testament better. That
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was bringing some fire, wasn't it? And that line, we are the ones who build. That's a line you could,
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you could put that on a, on a sign and put it over your office door. We are the ones who build.
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That's a line like in Breaking Bad, Walter White, I am the one who knocks. We are the ones who build.
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It's such a powerful line because it gives you a positive vision of the future and because it
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rings true. The left destroys the right builds. That's just how it works. That's how it's worked since
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the French Revolution. French Revolution was the left, the atheists and the secularists who sat on the
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left side of the National Assembly who burned down buildings and who slaughtered people, who chopped
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off people's heads, who destroyed the government, who attempted to destroy the church. That's what
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they did. And it was the right that builds. It was the right. It was the Christians and it was the
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defenders of the government and civil society that would build the cathedrals and the palaces and
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the businesses and the statues and the everything. That's really what it comes down to. And it rang even
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truer because we were sitting there at TPUSA. TPUSA, which is not just like a petition thing on the
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internet. TPUSA, which is not just a group chat. TPUSA, which is a massive, powerful organization
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that Charlie Kirk built. A proper institution. They really built that. What the left usually does is
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goes into pre-existing institutions and destroys them. The left goes in and takes over the universities
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or takes over movie studios or takes over big corporations and destroys them, eats away at them,
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like termites in a wall. What the right does, what Charlie certainly did with TPUSA, is build something.
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He goes, we're the ones who build, we're the ones who create. This is another reason not to waste your
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time personally hating your enemies. Forget about your enemies. Let the civil authority deal with your
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enemies. Leave vengeance to the Lord. He will repay. And their foot shall slide in due time.
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You go build. You go create. That is a powerful message.
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But the biggest portion of it to me, the biggest takeaway, is that we saw something that none of us
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have seen in our lifetimes. We saw the top levels of the government preaching the gospel.
00:22:01.980
And there's some people who have a problem with that. Too bad. We'll get to that in one moment.
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Marco Rubio gets up there. Secretary of State brings down the house.
00:23:31.800
His deep belief that we were all created, every single one of us before the beginning of time
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by the hands of the God of the universe, an all-powerful God who loved us and created us for
00:23:45.980
the purpose of living with him in eternity. But then sin entered the world and separated us from
00:23:51.260
our creator. And so God took on the form of a man and came down and lived among us. And he suffered like
00:23:58.600
men. And he died like a man. But on the third day, he rose unlike any mortal man. And then,
00:24:07.900
and to prove any doubters wrong, he ate with his disciples so they could see and they touched his
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wounds. He didn't rise as a ghost or as a spirit, but his flesh. And then he rose to the heaven, but he
00:24:22.220
promised he would return. And he will. And when he returns, because he took on that death, because
00:24:28.580
he carried that cross, we were freed from the sin that separated us from him. And when he returns,
00:24:33.680
there will be a new heaven and a new earth, and we will all be together. And we are going to have
00:24:39.160
a great reunion there again with Charlie and all the people we love. Thank you and God bless you.
00:24:49.140
Absolutely beautiful. And for everyone who's blackpilling and who's all doom and gloom all the
00:24:53.980
time and says, our country's over and the West is falling and all. How do you make sense of that?
00:25:00.960
Our nation was founded by people who called themselves pilgrims, and then was developed by
00:25:06.220
people who said that we would be a model of Christian charity, and then was founded in the
00:25:11.100
late 18th century by people who said that we are endowed by our creator with certain rights. And then
00:25:16.620
in our national anthem, we hear the phrase, conquer we must when our cause it is just,
00:25:20.300
and this be our motto, in God is our trust. Then we put, in God we trust, on our money. And then
00:25:25.940
by the middle to the late 20th century, we start taking all that stuff away.
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And we pretend that there's some firm separation between church and state.
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We pretend that religion is no longer permitted in the public square.
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We pretend that we can never know anything about religious truth. We can pretend
00:25:44.580
that the government has to be practically atheist. That was a recent invention in American history.
00:25:53.180
And what we saw yesterday was a little closer to what it used to be like.
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And that's a beautiful thing. I know there are going to be some people, obviously on the left,
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who hate God, but people on the right who are, I don't know, they're a little squishy,
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or they're under the sway of liberal ideology, who say,
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I don't want my government officials talking about religion.
00:26:13.600
Okay, well, what do you want them talking about?
00:26:16.080
It's not just any religion. We're talking about the Christian religion.
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The Christian religion, which says, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
00:26:29.940
In politics, you have to be motivated by some kind of spirit,
00:26:35.080
You have to have some view of morality, because the law is just practical morality.
00:26:49.280
You don't like the love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you religion.
00:26:53.780
You don't like the one that says that if you believe in Christ, you will have everlasting life.
00:27:01.780
You don't want the religion of hope and faith and charity.
00:27:10.780
The religion of make as much money as you can and then hoard it.
00:27:14.120
The religion of do weird sex stuff so long as it tickles you.
00:27:19.040
The religion of go out and get yours and forget about everybody else.
00:27:24.040
The religion of don't have any kids and let your whole civilization die off.
00:27:29.420
Because for me, I think that broadly speaking, the men who settled this continent,
00:27:38.400
the men who founded our early projects in colonial government,
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the men who founded our country in the late 18th century,
00:27:49.520
And I think that this modern religion that sought to supplant that has been a disaster.
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the first guy to turn around and start walking backward is the most progressive person.
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J.D. Vance gives a really practical call for the people in that room
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and the some hundred million people around the country who were streaming.
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than to sell your soul for an easy life with no purpose, no risk, no love, and no truth.