Ep. 1847 - What No One Noticed About Sydney Sweeney's Dress
Episode Stats
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Summary
Sidney Sweeney wore a see-through dress to an awards gala, and it caused a stir. What does this have to do with politics? And what does it mean for the future of the 2020 Democratic primary race?
Transcript
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There's a lot I want to get to. A prominent Democrat in Congress can't explain why she
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voted to shut the government down. A former major conservative thought leader just endorsed
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Zoran Mamdani for New York mayor. Support for so-called same-sex marriages cratering,
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all massive developments. But speaking of massive developments,
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I have to speak for a moment about Sidney Sweeney. Yesterday, I got a lot of flack from
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the producers because I did not cover Sidney Sweeney. Sidney Sweeney did not cover Sidney
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Sweeney, it turns out. I didn't really know what they were talking about. I had seen her name
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trending in the morning. I was writing my show, but I didn't pay it much attention.
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Then sometime yesterday afternoon, a photo of the reason she was trending finally hit my Twitter feed.
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And after I regained custody of my eyes, I understood why the producers wanted me to talk
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about it. For the few who did not catch it, Sidney Sweeney showed up to some awards gala
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wearing a see-through dress. And this is a family show, so we'll blur it out a little bit.
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But to be fair, it was not a full Kanye wife dress. It was not completely transparent, but
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it left very little to the imagination, which excited lots of people, but it also disappointed a lot of
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people, especially conservatives who like to claim Ms. Sweeney is one of our own.
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The only two takes I saw on the dress yesterday were disapproval on the one hand that it's immodest
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and approval on the other hand, if you got it flaunted. But I think there is actually a third
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option that I have not heard anyone else mention. And it is an option that reconciles the dress,
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which we know she wore, with the fact that Sidney Sweeney is a Republican, which we know
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because of reporting about her voter ID. I think the dress was subversive.
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I don't want to give too esoteric a Straussian reading here, but I think the dress was subversive
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because, here's my evidence, the event that she wore it to was Variety Magazine's Power of Women
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Gala. That was the name of it. And while we've been told for decades that women only have power
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when they're feminist boss ladies who wear pantsuits and act like men, Sidney Sweeney's dress said,
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no, the power of women is in our femininity. The power of women is especially in some particular
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anatomical features that men don't have. It has actually a vital biological power. And yes,
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the power of women is in no part, no small part rather, in women's physiques.
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I'm not saying the dress is conservative exactly, but it sure ain't feminist.
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I'm Michael Knowles. This is The Michael Knowles Show.
00:03:14.380
Welcome back to the show. Kamala Harris wants to lower the voting age to 16. I used to oppose that
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kind of thing. Now, I think the way young Gen Z is trending, lowering the voting age might actually
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end up giving us Francisco Franco or something. So anyway, we'll get to that. Also, question of the
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Do you know what today is? Today is Friend Friday. That's what I'm calling it now. I tried this out
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last week or two weeks ago when I was still in the country, and I really liked it where I bring on a
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friend and we kind of beat up the stories. I get, listen, sometimes I get in a vacuum here. It's
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just me and the microphone and the camera and my cigars and my beautiful candles, which we'll talk
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about later. But I got to bring in another voice sometimes, make sure I'm not totally off, especially
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on a topic as controversial as Sidney Sweeney's dress. So anyway, this time I'm bringing on my
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friend, Jack Posobiec. Jack, thank you for coming on the show.
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Happy Christian Halloween to you, Michael Knowles.
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Hey, I want to get to that later, too. I had a big debate on this yesterday,
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and I suspect, and in fact, I know that you're totally right about this.
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So before we get into Halloween, I do want to talk about dressing up for a second.
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No, I didn't see Sidney Sweeney trending at all yesterday. I have no idea what you're referring
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to. I only have a completely wholesome Twitter feed. So, well, I'll fill you in then, Jack,
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obviously. Sidney Sweeney wore a dress that some are calling slightly immodest. However,
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I kind of wonder if there's some subversion here. Look, I really want to claim Sidney Sweeney
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is one of our own. She's apparently a registered Republican. I like that she is pretty in a normal
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way, not in like a weird 20 teens, androgynous, freaky way. And so is there, what's your take
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So, I mean, look, I've got a take on it. It might be a little bit of a thought crime,
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but the, all right, all right. It's not necessarily conservative, but it is right-wing coded.
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And the reason that I say that it's right-wing coded is because it's anti-Kardashian.
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Okay. I don't know if you were plugged in during the monologue, but I said almost a similar thing.
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I said, it's not quite conservative, but it's at least anti-feminist. What do you mean anti-Kardashian?
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Yeah. So, Kardashian is this sort of, like that look that's been kind of going around. I think it
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started in like the late 2000s, really blew up in like the 2010s along with the Kardashian look,
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and you see this everywhere. You see like the huge contours and, and, and I just, I'm just going
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to say it, man. It's like twerking culture. It's just full on twerking culture. And, and more about
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In fact, we, we all, we all know what Sidney Sweeney is bringing back. She went on SNL,
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she did the little sketch where she dressed, I'm going to say it, she dressed as a Hooters
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girl. And they're talking about a certain large, uh, assets in terms of her, obviously
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her intellect and her poise that she is bringing back to the forefront. And this has been something
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that has been de-emphasized in our culture for a very long time. And I'm just going to say
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it is right-wing coded because it is nurturing. It is life-giving. It is, uh, it is, and it
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is the true essence of femininity, which is of course, motherhood.
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Wow. Because if you're saying, you know, if, if the culture is all about that base, no
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treble, that feature is, is kind of left-coded because it's androgynous, you know, men and
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women have that feature, but only women have, have the other feature.
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Correct. Wow. That's pretty, wow. This has been kind of like a topic on the internet for
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a while too. It's sort of one of those, uh, there's a website that I've heard of it's
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for four channel or something like that. I'm not, I've never seen it myself, but, uh, you
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know, where this topic has come up to quite, quite an extent. And Sydney Sweeney is sort
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of like the avatar of this side of the debate, where if you want to bring true femininity back,
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that means, and, and look, go back to, uh, to America circa 1992. I saw this like internet
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hall of fame clip that was going around yesterday or earlier this week on Twitter, where it was
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the, it was Apache helicopters were flying the pace car of NASCAR at the Hooters 500 in like
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Charlotte, North Carolina. And it was like, it's like, that was the America I grew up in.
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And you know something, it was just better. Yeah. I'm not saying it was the 1950s exactly,
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but it was probably preferable. No, it wasn't, it wasn't the conservative 1950s,
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but it was just better. This, this ties in to a major news story that a lot of people said was
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not possible, which is according to an economist, you gov poll. So it's not necessarily a right-wing
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poll support for same-sex marriage. So-called has fallen to 54%. And this is one of these issues,
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you know, I grew up, I'm old enough to remember when marriage was between a man and a woman.
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And some of our audience actually is probably so young. They don't remember that. Then you get
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2015 Obergefell, the Supreme court redefines marriage. That push had been building for some
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time, really since willing grace in the late nineties. And then it just, it stopped being a
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political issue. And there were a handful of us who said, yo guys, you can't give up on marriage.
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It's the fundamental political institution, but all the Republicans, virtually all of the
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prominent conservatives, they said, now guys, we lost marriage, move on. Obergefell will never be
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overturned. This is just how it is now. And I thought like, there's no way, right? This is the basic
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political unit. There's the gods of the copy book headings are going to come back. Is this a sign
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that we will see the overturning of Obergefell and the re restatement of a proper true marriage?
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is Obergefell getting overruled? I think, I think if you look at the traction, right, if you look at
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the traction and where it's going on this and, and Obergefell, you know, people could say what they
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want. And I think it's actually a separate issue from same-sex marriage, even though it's sort of like
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in, in, in political psychology, isn't because we know that the justices take up cases based on
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public opinion. We certainly know that Roberts has done this. It's been sort of a hallmark of
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his time on the court that, look, it was not properly judged in the same way that Roe v. Wade
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was not properly judged. This is just not something that's covered in the constitution. It's not there.
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It's not in the bill of rights. It's certainly not in any of the amendments. Marriage was always a
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state institution. It is covered by the 10th amendment because no powers that are given to the federal
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government are, all of those are left with the states. And so it's always been that way. And
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they can't just write things into the constitution. No one ever tried to put this up. No one ever tried
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to make this an amendment. They just sort of pushed it through the courts, which we've seen the left
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doing since the 1960s. If they can't win at the ballot box, they go to the courtroom. And so it is
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something where when you realize that, look, there, and you mentioned there weren't a lot of
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Republicans and conservatives that spoke out, but the very first Republican that I ever worked for
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many moons ago, uh, first as an intern, as a campaign staffer, it was Rick Santorum and Rick
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Santorum, my Senator in Pennsylvania, he took a lot of flack and people can go back and look at his
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comments, which were colorful to say the least about this. And he said, if you put this into
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practice, right, if you put it into law and trying to anywhere, that what it will do will open up a
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Pandora's box of trouble, where if you say that anything can be marriage, then all of a sudden you
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will completely distort society. And it won't just be men and men and women and women, but we'll have
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all sorts of relationships being enshrined in government, being enshrined by government in
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law. And guess what? That's exactly what we're seeing. Certainly with the rise of surrogacy,
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certainly with the rise of new technologies, we're now seeing like polyamorous marriages and
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children being raised by three fathers, three women, and all sorts of just complete and utter
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wildness, which ultimately always turns out very badly for the children. And so, you know,
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he took a lot, a lot of flack for that. If anyone remembers the comments I'm referring to from like
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05, 06, you'll know what I'm saying. That it's, it's something where he was completely right because
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they didn't stop there. That's what led to the push for the trans movement. That's what led to like
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drag queen story hour and all the rest of it. Because the minute that they got that the entire machinery,
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the political machinery that they had built or starting with, by the way, you're totally right on
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really grace. That was like the first. And then modern family became the second. This is the mass
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media. This is the, you know, the mass normalization of this type of stuff. And, and it was pushed on
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society in a way that nobody ever really sat down and had a debate about. We just sort of were told
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that we have to accept this and, and they've completely gone over the rails with it. And a lot
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of people are pointing back to 2013, really a lot of these bad decisions, bad policies that came out of
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the Obama era that it's time to take a look at again. And I will, by the way, just add as an
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anecdote. So my, my son, my oldest son, um, he had his first, uh, reconciliation class a couple of
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nights ago. And in, and it, since it was the first class, we were sort of talking about all of the
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sacraments. And when they brought up matrimony, the, uh, you know, the teacher, she said, you know,
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and by the way, just so everybody knows marriage is between one man and one woman kind of like looks
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around the room. Everybody got that good moving on. Well, even in, you know, it's so funny. It only
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occurred to me recently, the word matrimony comes from the word mater, you know, like mother in Latin.
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And so the notion that you could have matrimony between two men is, is undercut by the very word
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itself. Uh, yes, Rick Santorum is one of the most vindicated men in America. Every day that goes by,
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he is more and more vindicated. Uh, and you make a good point on Obergefell being different from
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same sex marriage, quote unquote. Uh, you know, I do wonder though on the state versus federal issue.
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I remember I was a student and I got to talk to Scalia once or twice. And we, one of, one of the
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times, one of the students asked him about marriage and whether it was a state's issue or federal issue.
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And he said, well, you know, the problem is it's very hard for it to be a state's issue because you
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can't have a country where someone is married in Massachusetts, but not married in Oklahoma.
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What happens when they move? What happens when they travel? So it, it creates problems.
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What they did with the Massachusetts, um, I think it was Massachusetts was the first state. And this
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is exactly what they were trying to do with that under the, under the contract clause of the
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constitution is same, same idea as having a driver's license in one state. You can, you know,
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you shouldn't have to get a driver's license in every state.
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Yeah. So then my question is regardless of what the, well, I actually have two questions.
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We were told that this issue like abortion and Roe v. Wade was, was just done. It was set in law.
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It was never going to be overturned in our lifetimes. Two questions. Will we see the overruling
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of Obergefell in our lifetime and on, on any kind of grounds on, you know, textualist grounds,
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originalist grounds or substantive grounds? And two, will the culture, will we see the majority of
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people turn against gay marriage so-called in our lifetimes? I think we will. I think,
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and I caught what you were saying about Gen Z, I caught you what you're saying about the polling
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on this. I think a lot of people realize, you know, especially Gen Z when they look at,
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you know, sort of the, the laws that came out of the sixties, that was sort of seen as the boomer
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era. Then the laws that came out of the nineties, the Clinton, the Gen X era, and then the laws that
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came out of Obama and the policy changes. This was the millennial era of politics where they had
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primacy. And the idea being that everything has gone a little bit too far in one direction.
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And we need to look at things that we want to reel back. And you look at some of those big changes,
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there's no way that you can say Obergefell wasn't a major change to the way things have been done.
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By the way, not just in the United States of America, throughout all of human history,
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the nuclear family is the oldest institution on planet earth. It predates literally everything.
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It predates the Bible. It predates history itself. We go into the caves.
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Of the cavemen. And what do we find? We find mom, dad, kids. It's all there.
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Yeah, I agree. I just think these people who thought that they were going to bet on their
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own ideology over human nature and the fact that we're social creatures and coupling creatures and
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biological creatures, I think that was, that was really a bad bet. Okay.
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I want to turn to more mundane political. Say it again.
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Which does get us back to Sidney Sweeney. In fact, now I want to move to much less pleasant
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matters, unfortunately, more mundane matters. Democrat representative Janelle Bynum was just
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being interviewed by C-SPAN Washington Journal, which I've done that show a number of times and
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it's a kind of a liberal show, but it's on C-SPAN. You know, it's not, it's not supposed to be
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polemical. It's certainly not right wing. She goes on C-SPAN. They ask her about the government
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They did have a clean CR vote on September 19th in the House. Did you vote for it?
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I disagree with your characterization and want to make sure that we're very clear about
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what Republicans have been doing. Any bill that they've put forth, they've always had
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some extra stuff to it. There's always been a poison pill to it. So I disagree with your
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characterization. What were the poison pills of the clean CR or the continuing resolution?
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You say it's not clean. That was voted on in the House in mid-September.
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Here's what's important. I think what you're trying to do
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So for those who haven't followed the shutdown all that closely,
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the Republicans offered a continuing resolution to keep current spending levels through November,
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and then there would be more of a budgetary fight. But that means that they offered to Democrats
00:19:43.880
the opportunity to vote for a budget that was essentially the same budget they had already
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voted for under Biden. And the Democrats voted for it under Biden, and they refused to vote for
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the exact same thing under Trump. And so Washington Journal calls this lady out for it, Janelle Bynum,
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and says, hey, why'd you vote for it one time, not the other? She goes, I totally dispute your
00:20:05.860
characterization because there's a poison pill. Simple follow-up question. What's the poison pill?
00:20:10.160
Humana, humana, humana, humana. Jack, two questions. One, what is the average IQ in the
00:20:18.960
House of Representatives here on Capitol Hill broadly? And two, that might be too difficult
00:20:23.500
to question to answer or too depressing a question. Two, what were Democrats thinking
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Look, I'm just going to say this, that it has been remarked to me on more than one occasion
00:20:39.280
that when you move from the House side of the Capitol Hill to the Senate side, that you
00:20:43.840
can actually feel the rise in IQ when you're going over. And not all senators, I would add,
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but there is a sense that the seriousness, it just kind of elevates a little bit. And to all the House
00:20:58.780
members that I'm, that I'm friends with, you know, exactly what I mean.
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Yeah. Hey, listen, some of my best friends are, are members of the House of Representatives,
00:21:06.560
Some of my best friends, they're not all of them. Some, I assume are good people,
00:21:10.360
you know, and, um, you know, what were they thinking? Look, the Democrats' singular focus
00:21:16.020
since 2025, even actually go back further since 2016, is just do the opposite of Trump.
00:21:22.140
Whatever Trump wants, just do the opposite, which I've, I've often argued that this is something
00:21:26.740
that Trump should actually take into consideration when he's like, I'm going to breathe air today.
00:21:31.720
And the Democrats are going, we're not going to breathe air at all anymore.
00:21:34.380
No, it's going to be terrible, right? Just, just start supporting things that, you know,
00:21:38.460
they have to also support just to like complete them, drive them crazy and have them chasing their
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tail all the time. They walk themselves into a corner. This isn't the first time they've done this
00:21:46.500
and they'll sit there and you ask them a basic follow-up question, really simple,
00:21:52.440
totally fair question. You said there were poison pills. Okay, great. What's the poison pill?
00:21:56.080
Well, can't answer. I saw Tara Palmieri had, um, this, uh, this, uh, former media matters,
00:22:02.740
like intern on, who's running for Congress up in the Chicago area and said, so you were indicted
00:22:06.960
for obstructing ice. Well, I was indicted for free speech. Okay. Let's play the video of what
00:22:11.540
you did. They said you were beating on the hood. She plays the video. She's beating on the hood of
00:22:15.040
the ice car and said, well, what do you think about this video? I mean, and, and these charges,
00:22:19.000
there's a, there's a six year, um, you know, possible penalty, which could by the way,
00:22:23.460
preclude your ability to serve in the house. She hangs up. She just hangs up. It's, it's one
00:22:28.400
of the most stunning things I've ever seen. Doesn't even have a basic answer to a simple
00:22:32.600
question. And so look, hats off to, you know, uh, as Rush Limbaugh used to call them random
00:22:37.560
acts of journalism, because this is journalists actually doing their job. Just ask basic follow-up
00:22:44.180
questions and you see them completely fall apart. Yes. I, it, in a way the, that exchange,
00:22:50.400
she was like a figure of the whole shutdown fight in as much as there was an obvious follow-up
00:22:57.160
that, that the Democrat never thought about. They, they, they never seem to think or to
00:23:02.580
understand how this story was going to end. So on the shutdown, they say, look, we're on the wrong
00:23:06.760
side of virtually every 80, 20 issue other than abortion, environmentalism, and healthcare. And no
00:23:12.500
one cares about abortion, environmentalism. Okay. We're going to make this about healthcare. All right.
00:23:16.500
We're shutting the government down. And the Republicans come out and they say, hold on,
00:23:20.100
you're shutting the government down because you want to give healthcare to illegals. That's one
00:23:23.260
change you want to make the healthcare. And because you want to give more federal subsidies to rich
00:23:27.040
people, that's another change you want to make the healthcare. And the Democrats say, uh, uh,
00:23:31.080
and they don't know what to do. They're according to all available reporting,
00:23:35.320
they're feeling the pressure right now. This is the first locked shutdown rather in my lifetime
00:23:39.520
that has not been blamed on Republicans. Trump's numbers are going up during the shutdown. So it's,
00:23:44.360
Schumer's plan completely backfired. The Dems are probably going to have to cave and be in a worse
00:23:48.800
position than they were before. It's the same thing with this lady on TV. Well, you know,
00:23:52.560
there was a poison pill. Okay. What was it? Uh, uh, hummina, hummina, hummina. You gotta,
00:23:57.880
you gotta like, guys, I'm not, you don't need to be count von Metternich here, but you have to figure
00:24:01.280
out like step one, two, and three. How is the plan going to end? Okay. Speaking of strange
00:24:07.140
electoral matters, a former major conservative thought leader is endorsing Zoe Ron in New York.
00:24:14.480
We'll get to that momentarily. First, I want to tell you about the St. Paul Center. Go to
00:24:18.280
stpaulcenter.com slash America. One of my absolute favorite organizations in the country is the St.
00:24:24.880
Paul Center. Uh, I have two books on my desk at home. One is a daily devotional. One is the Ignatius
00:24:33.020
Study Bible, uh, that was, uh, compiled by Scott Hahn. Great, great theologian and leader of the
00:24:39.940
St. Paul Center. It's just, just magnificent. Uh, there, there, if you want a deeper reach into
00:24:46.180
the Bible, I strongly, strongly recommend you check them out. America has reached a cultural
00:24:51.600
and spiritual crossroads where here, you're seeing it all around the culture, all sorts of
00:24:55.880
demographics. People are looking for the truth and in their search, more and more people are turning
00:24:59.620
to the Bible for answers. Bible Across America is a nationwide Bible study, the biggest Bible study
00:25:04.260
in the country. It's hosted by the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology. Join the seven-week Bible
00:25:09.560
study exploring the personal challenge of performing Jesus as teacher and Lord. Join the movement and
00:25:16.840
learn to share your faith confidently starting November 5th. Sign up at stpaulcenter, S-T-P-A-U-L
00:25:24.440
center dot com slash America. Also folks, very, very exciting. You're getting the first glimpse of
00:25:33.100
this. The Michael Knowles Lux Adventus Advent calendar set, Advent candle set. I'm so sorry.
00:25:42.640
It pairs with your Advent calendar. You know, last year we had the, uh, smells and bells candles. We've
00:25:49.820
had many candles, especially liturgically themed ones. And we sold a zillion of them and they're
00:25:53.960
just so good. You, you went out, you bought them, they sold out. Then you yelled at me because they
00:26:00.000
sold out. Well, we have this year, it smells like just a fresh, beautiful pine forest. You have the
00:26:05.920
three purple candles with the one pink candle to meditate on the last four things, death, judgment,
00:26:12.120
heaven, and hell. This is being sold for a very, very limited time. It's actual, it's beeswax,
00:26:18.300
like the ancient Christian tradition of beeswax candles. It's just magnificent. You need to get
00:26:23.800
them now. They're being sold for a very, very limited time because we want to be able to ship
00:26:26.520
them so that you have them for Advent. So if you want it right now, go to thecandleclub.com.
00:26:32.240
You can get them there. Order them now though, because they're going to sell out and I want you to get
00:26:36.660
them for Advent and they're just magnificent. Okay. Jack, Bill Crystal. Remember him? Bill Crystal.
00:26:44.480
Real quick. I want the candles, man. You're selling me on this. We need the candles in the
00:26:51.040
Pozo household. I know. It is actually, this is a product almost perfectly tailor-made for the
00:26:57.500
Pozo household. I just love it. When we, we were going to do a different kind of candle. I said,
00:27:01.880
guys, you know what we have? We need to do a full Advent, like one for each week, last four things.
00:27:08.760
I'm very excited for it. I look forward to smuggling a few out of you.
00:27:11.840
I love, especially like right when you get to Christmas, the week one candle is like hanging
00:27:15.320
on for dear life. It's like, it's like right at the bottom. Cause you always have the different,
00:27:19.480
you know, cause one week to week and then Godete. But then like, we always get that last one of it.
00:27:23.380
Come on, come on. I can get, there's a little bit of wick left and you could just get in there.
00:27:26.840
Also, did you know, so some of our high church mainline Protestant friends,
00:27:30.880
they, they do that tradition of the four, uh, you know, candles for the four weeks. And,
00:27:35.120
but that's awesome. But they make it, they make it like really nice and happy.
00:27:39.440
So, and a friend had sent me a kind of like a Protestant Advent wreath. And it was, it was like
00:27:45.960
hope, joy, happiness, whatever. It was all this like happy stuff. And I said, no, no, no. But the
00:27:51.360
Catholic version is the last four things. So as you're leading into, uh, up to Christmas, you meditate
00:27:57.200
on, uh, death, judgment, heaven and hell, which I love. I listened, but we have to get you some
00:28:06.540
candles, Jack. Uh, I also, I need to get your take on Bill Kristol, former, I don't know, one of the
00:28:14.600
grand poobahs of the conservative movement. He, he caught a terminal case of TDS 10 years ago,
00:28:20.440
turned on Trump. He now says he would vote for mom Donnie for mayor of New York. He wouldn't even
00:28:26.900
vote for Cuomo. He's not even that kind of Democrat anymore. He's going to vote for the Muslim
00:28:30.220
communist. This was so extreme that even Jonah Goldberg, another, uh, you know, once a real
00:28:36.600
thought leader on, on the right kind of shifted a little bit after Trump because he really hated
00:28:41.300
Trump. But, but even Jonah comes out yesterday, he says, hold on, look, I like Bill. He's a friend
00:28:46.420
of mine, but what the hell are we doing? Why are you voting for what, or why, why are you supporting
00:28:52.380
Zoran Mamdani? He can't understand it. Can you? Well, yeah, it's, it's, it's really simple. I mean,
00:28:59.800
it, it just kind of goes back to what we were saying earlier about the Democrats. They've taken
00:29:03.620
the exact same tack where if someone is anti-Trump, they see that as, okay, you're my friend. So I'm
00:29:09.940
going to be friends with you. I'm going to be supportive of you. If someone is as further to the left
00:29:15.420
or as far as someone that Trump has attacked, therefore must be someone that I will lend my
00:29:20.460
support to. So they're, they're North star, right? Which we were told was true conservatism.
00:29:24.920
Remember these were the true conservatives TM, true conservatives would always oppose Trump and
00:29:30.280
always support. Let me just, and let me just follow the, this, this line of thought, always
00:29:34.000
support the constitution, always support the founders, always support the Muslim, uh, communists
00:29:40.300
who have only been American for about five minutes, but also whose parents say that they're
00:29:44.660
not American at all who have spent their entire public life. Let's see, demonizing, uh, demonizing
00:29:52.100
white people telling us that the NYPD is the tool of the IDF telling us that, uh, they are going to
00:29:58.660
basically strip everything from anyone who's built anything in New York city and give it to the
00:30:04.860
migrants. This is the true blessings of conservatism. Yes. Of course it makes total sense.
00:30:10.660
It does. It does. No, there is a, there's a kind of internal logic to the way you're describing it,
00:30:15.160
Jack. And it, you know, at a really basic level, I, I wonder if Jonah Goldberg is confused because
00:30:21.640
he's been invading against tribalism and politics and all, you know, that became really popular in the
00:30:26.800
late 20 teens is for people to say, well, I'm against tribalism or whatever. I, I, I just think
00:30:32.600
at a basic level, politics is a team sport. You know, Machiavelli writes well of this in, uh,
00:30:39.320
the discourses on Livy, uh, but this is, it's not a particularly profound insight. It's just how
00:30:44.000
politics works. You got to bring people together because politics is how we all live together.
00:30:47.760
And it's a team sport. And 10 years ago, Bill Kristol switched teams. And so now he's on the
00:30:52.960
other team. And I mean, that's substantially what you just said to Jack, uh, but I don't know.
00:30:58.180
Why is that so complicated? I don't even think that's bad. Some people say, well,
00:31:00.720
it's just awful to think of politics as a team sport. Why is it? I don't know. We're social
00:31:04.480
creatures. That's how we got to do stuff together. We have to cooperate. And in any society,
00:31:09.440
they're going to be differing opinions. And so you got to build coalitions. I don't know.
00:31:13.180
In a way, I think Kristol is being kind of honest here. He's saying, look, I left the team 10 years
00:31:19.480
ago. Now I'm on the other team and I'm going all the way. I'm, I'm in, you know, give me the Jersey
00:31:23.880
coach. I'm yes. Bill Kristol, principled conservatives for Muslim Ugandan communists,
00:31:30.400
before I let you go, Jim. And actually, if, if just to add on that, um, you know,
00:31:35.420
if you look at, so if you look at his father, Irving Kristol, so he is a former Democrat as well.
00:31:40.780
So, and you saw this with a lot of the, yeah, the birth of the neoconservative movement was sort
00:31:45.700
of like, they were the Democrats who left over the Vietnam war and then moved over to the Republican
00:31:51.980
party and then have sort of been kind of like ensconced there and then through the Bush years,
00:31:56.920
et cetera. So really this is sort of just a return to form.
00:32:00.160
Yes. And you know, it's funny, the neocons are justifiably, you know, beaten about in political
00:32:05.440
discourse. And a lot of them, they were like ex Trotskyites who became Democrats and then became
00:32:11.640
conservatives when they were mugged by reality, they said. But I'll tell you though, that first
00:32:15.980
gen of neoconservatives, you read some of like Irving Kristol's writings, a lot of it's very thoughtful,
00:32:21.200
very serious. And I don't know, it'd be, it's hard for me to imagine Irving Kristol supporting
00:32:26.400
Mom Donnie. I, it's a, it's a, it's a sad turn of events. Before I let you go, Kamala Harris wants
00:32:33.680
to lower the voting age to 16. Give it to your, in her own words.
00:32:41.280
I'll tell you why. So Gen Z, they're age about 13 through 27. They've only known the climate
00:32:55.080
crisis. They missed substantial parts of their education because of the pandemic.
00:32:59.860
If they're in high school or college, especially in college, it is very likely that whatever they've
00:33:08.620
chosen as their major for study may not result in an affordable wage. They've coined the term
00:33:15.800
climate anxiety to describe fear of not only being able to buy a home, but that fear will be wiped out
00:33:25.460
by extreme weather, but fear of having children. It goes on. I just, I don't have time or, or
00:33:31.180
patience. Jack, I I'm in reflexively opposed to this, especially if the argument for letting 16
00:33:38.220
year olds vote is that they're completely neurotic and afraid of an imaginary problem. But then I look
00:33:44.140
around at Gen Z and I notice at least on the right, these guys are pretty trad, you know, I mean,
00:33:50.520
they're pretty right wing and I mean, in many ways, the kids are all right. Oh, should we lower the
00:33:55.900
voting age? I mean, I, uh, I'm like you, I think I'm reflexively against anything that allows more
00:34:02.980
people to vote. I think universal suffrage is one of those things that we, uh, that we really should
00:34:07.300
be having more conversations about and something I talked to Charlie about quite a bit, um, uh, on,
00:34:12.400
on thought crime on our, our sort of like taboo breaking show. But, but no, you're right though.
00:34:17.200
I will say though about Gen Z that you're right. The, the, the, the thing with Gen Z is this,
00:34:22.400
there's no middle in Gen Z, right? It's either you're like all the way to the right, or you're
00:34:27.040
all the way to like, you know, Zoran Mamdani and Luigi Maggioni. There's no middle, there's no
00:34:32.560
middle ground. There's no centrist. There's no half measures. It's either you're like full on trad.
00:34:38.260
I support Trump, deport everyone, you know, that, that hasn't been America for like more than 10 years.
00:34:43.940
Uh, or you're like all the way on the left and you just want to burn it all the way down. So
00:34:48.280
I'm not sure exactly how it strikes out, but I will say this, that when you talk about the neurosis,
00:34:53.140
you were talking about the anxiety. People don't blame Republicans for the lockdowns. They don't
00:34:58.120
blame the conservatives for the, for the shutdowns in, in their formative years, right? That is very
00:35:05.920
squarely blamed on her party, on Joe Biden or whoever it was that was making those decisions
00:35:11.140
in the white house. And I think that's one of the big reasons that you're seeing people who
00:35:15.940
are just totally out for revenge against the government. Yes. And now finally, before I let
00:35:20.700
you go, what will you be dressing as for Halloween tonight, Jack, or are you boycotting it because
00:35:26.360
it's a terrible evil satanic holiday? So Halloween is Christian. Halloween has been Christian since
00:35:31.920
735 when Pope Gregory ordained all saints day as November 1st, it has no connection whatsoever to
00:35:38.800
any Irish folk holidays. There's no evidence of this whatsoever, despite what 19th century bad
00:35:44.620
history tells you. There's also no evidence by the way that that Irish folk holiday had anything to do
00:35:49.840
with paganism. This is totally made up just like Wiccanism is totally made up in the modern era.
00:35:54.840
It has no connection or bearing to anything historical. And in fact, Halloween itself has always
00:36:00.480
been a Christian holiday. Now, just like Christmas, that doesn't mean it hasn't been secularized over the
00:36:06.800
years. And certainly we've seen that. And we have seen the rise of occultists and paganists
00:36:11.480
that are trying to invert a Christian holiday. So it's, it's the start of all hallowed tide, as you
00:36:16.640
know. Uh, so all hallows Eve, all hallows day, all saints day, and then followed by all souls day,
00:36:22.000
which we pray for the souls of the faithful departed in purgatory. So we are going up as a family, uh, as a
00:36:28.540
family costume, as we do every single year. I am not at liberty yet to say, uh, I cannot even give any
00:36:34.440
clues as to what it might be, but check our social media because my wife is very insistent that we do
00:36:40.440
not, uh, that we do not, uh, divulge this, but I would just say this to everybody out there.
00:36:44.780
It, there's a right way and a wrong way to do Halloween. If you're doing it in a way that's
00:36:48.460
having fun, if you're going out and you're remembering the souls of the faithful departed,
00:36:52.060
that's absolutely the best way to do it. Remember your mortality, uh, mock the demons,
00:36:57.640
mock the occult, mock Satanism in all of its forms, and then go out and have fun. That's the best way to do it.
00:37:04.300
It's a great, what a great idea, Jack, uh, a man who basically needs no introduction or
00:37:10.360
salutation or valediction, but, uh, it is at least a perfunctory matter. Where can people go find you
00:37:17.680
to see more? What's, uh, uh, at Jack Posobiec all over, all over Twitter. And the podcast is
00:37:25.000
human events daily. We're actually, we're going to be running our, our normal Halloween special with
00:37:30.440
Dr. Taylor Marshall discussing the Christian origins of Halloween. I'm sure it'll be very,
00:37:35.820
very politically correct. Very tame. Jack, always excellent to see you. Thank you for coming on.
00:37:40.840
God bless, man. Good to see you, man. Okay. Uh, before we get to the mailbag, I want to
00:37:46.020
tell you about Pure Talk. Go to puretalk.com slash Knowles. I love Pure Talk. And I'm very,
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fight. Okay. My favorite comment yesterday is from McGred7364. Funny, the Pope blesses a hunk of ice
00:39:54.760
and suddenly climate change is no longer going to destroy humanity. I know that's kind of a joke.
00:40:00.400
God works in mysterious ways. The Pope had this pre-scheduled climate thing as part of one of
00:40:10.640
his many events that he goes to. And he was asked to bless ice and popes and bishops and priests
00:40:15.620
bless water. So he blesses the water. And then Bill Gates comes out and says, climate change isn't a
00:40:20.480
threat anymore. All nature, my friends, is but art unknown to thee. All chance direction which thou
00:40:26.540
canst not see. Finally, finally, we arrive at my favorite time of the week, the mailbag.
00:40:30.700
Mailbag is sponsored by Pure Talk at puretalk.com slash Knowles Canada W-L-E-S to make the switch
00:40:34.600
today. Take it away. Hey, Michael. My girlfriend and I are kind of going through a rocky patch right
00:40:41.560
now. I'd say, in fact, she'd like to break up with me for the one reason that I do not believe
00:40:48.700
that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God incarnate and come down to earth. Like, I do believe God is
00:40:55.280
real, absolutely, but I don't think he'd do that. And I do believe Jesus was real, a very,
00:41:03.500
very incredibly smart man, incredibly intelligent man, somebody we should absolutely model our lives
00:41:08.060
after, you know, who died for his convictions. And please sell me on the Catholic Church. Sell me on
00:41:16.760
Jesus. I don't understand and I don't want to lose her. She's literally perfect.
00:41:23.020
That's very sweet. Okay. Well, uh, sorry that you're going through this rough patch in your
00:41:28.500
relationship, but this might be a good opportunity to re-examine exactly what you think and believe
00:41:33.240
and what the issue really is. Cause you say, you know, look, I, I, I love Jesus. I think he's great.
00:41:39.400
I think he's really smart. I think he's really moral. I think he's the kind of person to model
00:41:43.500
your life after. I just don't think he's God. And my girlfriend has a problem with this and she
00:41:48.100
doesn't see a future with me. If I don't, I don't think he's God, but I think he's really great in
00:41:51.980
everything. But he says he's God. He says in no uncertain terms that he is God before Abraham was,
00:42:00.460
I am. And, and he says it many other times in many different ways. So he says that, which means,
00:42:08.600
and you might say, well, I just don't believe that part. Okay. But now you get to C.S. Lewis's
00:42:13.220
trilemma, which is that if he says he's God and he's not really God, then he's either a lunatic,
00:42:24.020
but you said he's not a lunatic. You said he seems really intelligent and, you know, really,
00:42:28.660
really great and everything really with it. Or he's a liar, but you said he's, he's someone to
00:42:36.540
model your life after. So you're saying he's someone to model your life after, but he's dishonest
00:42:41.140
and he's a fraud. Or there's one third option, which is that he is who he says he is. And he
00:42:46.900
really is the Lord, but that's it. I think maybe the conflict that you're, you're arriving at is
00:42:52.460
you, you want to occupy a middle ground that is not tenable when it comes to faith. And your
00:43:01.040
girlfriend is rightly intuiting that that's not going to, that's unstable and you're not going
00:43:07.060
to remain there. You can't remain there because it doesn't make any sense. Either Christ is
00:43:12.540
intelligent and moral and someone to model your life after, a great moral teacher and all these
00:43:18.240
things, and God and literally God, the son of God incarnate, second person of the Holy Trinity.
00:43:25.980
Or he's none of those things. Or he's not particularly intelligent, or at least he's not
00:43:32.980
particularly moral, or at least he's not someone to model your life after. He's not those things.
00:43:38.740
But what he can't be is a really intelligent, great moral teacher who's a liar or duped. He can't be
00:43:47.900
that thing. So the only view that is really not plausible at all is the view that you hold right
00:43:53.420
now. And so anyway, I think the evidence for Christ's divinity is manifest. And I think it's totally
00:44:01.800
persuasive. And I think the resurrection is totally persuasive. And I think that when you encounter
00:44:07.100
Christ, even just reading the Bible in your room, you have the reaction that you say, this is true.
00:44:14.800
This just rings true because you have reason and you are able to perceive the truth and it just kind
00:44:20.620
of stirs something in you. And I think all the history and the church and all the rest of it also
00:44:25.560
speak to that. But whatever answer you're going to, maybe you're going to really ask this question
00:44:31.720
and say, oh no, I think it's all fake. And you're going to be like a Reddit tier atheist or something.
00:44:34.700
I guess you could arrive at that conclusion, though it would be mistaken. But the one place
00:44:40.000
you can't remain is where you are right now. And your girlfriend's intuiting that. And she realizes
00:44:43.380
you're either going to fall one way or the other. And she doesn't want to bet her life on that kind
00:44:49.000
of instability. And I don't really blame her for it. So it's wonderful that you love your girlfriend.
00:44:52.320
You don't want to lose her. But I think you got to just buckle down on this question and come to
00:44:57.760
whatever the honest answer is and then be honest with your girlfriend. Okay, next question.
00:45:02.460
Hi, Michael. My name is Megan and I'm a devoted member of the Creme de la Creme.
00:45:06.940
Without getting into the details of why, I'm a divorced mother. I just turned 40 and I would
00:45:12.940
like to get remarried and maybe have one more kid. Due to recent events, I have been advised by the
00:45:19.260
internet that because I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that many other
00:45:24.220
Christians do not view me as a Christian. I would like your advice on how I can go about dating and
00:45:30.400
finding a godly man. Thank you for your advice. Okay, well, a lot of these questions are probably
00:45:37.640
a little above my pay grade given the particularity of your, you know, beliefs and religious practices.
00:45:45.180
Um, so I give you the, through my Catholic lens, I give you the view. Um, we don't believe in
00:45:54.100
divorce. You know, we don't think it's sacramentally possible. Um, however, it doesn't
00:46:00.420
mean that you're just necessarily consigned to, you know, throwing your hands in the air or something
00:46:04.540
like that. I guess the question would be, was your marriage valid in the first place? That's the,
00:46:11.280
that would be the first answer, the question that I would ask if I were trying to figure out if
00:46:14.820
someone could continue to date or whatever. Um, was your marriage valid in the first place? Was
00:46:19.760
something withheld, you know, unjustly before the marriage? Was it done with coercion or under
00:46:25.120
duress? Or this is why the Catholic Church has, um, nullment investigations. Uh, is, is the marriage
00:46:31.980
reparable? Maybe not. Um, anyway, so that would be how I would first approach that question. Now put
00:46:37.800
that aside for a second. Let's get to your second question. Your second question is, you know, look,
00:46:41.400
I'm Mormon and people don't consider me Christian. And you are, you are just going to encounter that
00:46:46.880
because, uh, you know, LDS doesn't affirm the Nicene Creed say, or the, uh, you know, the Trinity,
00:46:54.960
the central mystery of the faith. And so I don't, I don't think you're going to persuade a lot of
00:47:01.440
Protestants or Catholics that, you know, it's, it's all the same thing. And I say, this is someone who
00:47:07.300
really, really loves the LDS. I was with a good LDS friend of mine just a few days ago. Um,
00:47:13.560
but I, I just think if you're going to remain and within that religious view and religious tradition,
00:47:19.120
um, you're going to be running up against a wall if you're going to try to convince, uh,
00:47:24.140
Protestants or Catholics or Eastern Orthodox or whatever, that it's the same view. Uh, I don't
00:47:29.920
think it's really going to work. So I guess as a, as a practical matter, you, you could,
00:47:34.040
assuming the question of the knowledge of the marriage or whatever is figured out,
00:47:39.060
you could, you could continue to date within LDS. Um, but anyway, those are, those are all just
00:47:45.100
little hints of how to maybe try to proceed. Uh, but I really, I, I feel for the position that
00:47:51.060
you're in. It's a very, very difficult position. And I, you know, sometimes on the internet is you're
00:47:57.540
describing these kinds of feuds with people on Twitter or something. Sometimes people just view
00:48:02.260
everything as a cold intellectual calculation. And that's not really what you're talking about.
00:48:05.760
You're saying, look, I'm a human being. I've had this problem. It's a fallen world. And you know,
00:48:09.940
I've got my kid and I've got, uh, I'd like to, this marriage fell apart and I'd like to date. And
00:48:14.980
it's, you know, it's, it's like a real personal social kind of question. And so I really feel for
00:48:20.540
you. I think we can all pray for you and your difficult situation and then hope you can navigate
00:48:25.880
things in such a way that, that are conducive to the truth and therefore conducive to your flourishing
00:48:29.980
because you, you know, you're not, I don't think you're, you're exactly going to flourish and be
00:48:37.360
happy if you, if you pursue a line of life that is, that is contrary to the truth, trying to paper
00:48:45.000
over things, you know, that's, it's not going to work. You're going to, you're going to face the
00:48:49.000
problem that you're facing right now, which is you're, you're trying to beat your head against a
00:48:51.760
wall, trying to convince, you know, like a Southern Baptist or something that LDS theology is
00:48:56.020
substantially the same as, as, uh, his theology. It's not, not going to work. Okay. Uh, it is
00:49:02.280
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