The Michael Knowles Show - Ep. 2013 - The Industrial Revolution Has Been a Disaster For The Human Race

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00:01:00.000 While the mainstream left is embracing political violence to a greater degree than they have

00:01:04.440 in at least a century, maybe ever in America, the Trump administration is doing more to suppress

00:01:10.220 violent leftists than the government has in at least 60 years, declaring Antifa a terrorist

00:01:15.080 organization and sending a bunch of its members to prison for a combined 450 years. That is all

00:01:21.260 a great start, but the violence is almost certainly going to get worse. And while lots

00:01:26.160 attention has been paid to causes like immigration, polarization, decaying institutions.

00:01:33.060 Not enough people seem to remember that the industrial revolution and its consequences

00:01:37.700 have been a disaster for the human race. I'm Michael Knowles. This is the Michael Knowles Show.

00:01:56.160 welcome back to the show we have the greatest journalist of antifa in the world coming on

00:02:07.100 the show that would be andy no to discuss uh the the recent incarceration of antifa operatives

00:02:13.280 to give us a little tease into his next book which is phenomenal i can hardly tell you but

00:02:18.860 it occurs to me that while we're all pointing the blame game on the political violence that's

00:02:23.860 increasing, a lot of people have been neglecting what might be the most obvious cause of it.

00:02:30.100 And so, look, the bad news is political violence is increasing. And the political violence is

00:02:36.640 coming from the left. And even leftists are beginning to admit that the political violence

00:02:40.820 is coming from the left. And even when the leftists admit the political violence comes

00:02:44.080 from the left, they're still hiding most of the left-wing violence. We've talked about that a lot

00:02:47.580 over the last eight, nine months.

00:02:49.720 But it's clear,

00:02:50.600 they're still not counting

00:02:51.680 the BLM riots

00:02:53.840 that murdered dozens of people,

00:02:55.220 destroyed over a billion dollars in property.

00:02:56.760 They're still not counting most of that

00:02:57.860 as political violence.

00:02:58.860 They're still not counting attacks

00:03:00.400 on right-wing people

00:03:02.580 and right-wing institutions

00:03:04.600 and churches and all that.

00:03:05.560 They're still not counting a lot of that

00:03:06.640 as left-wing violence.

00:03:07.720 And even still,

00:03:09.220 just based on their very, very narrow definitions

00:03:11.440 of left-wing violence,

00:03:12.940 you're seeing that it's overtaken right-wing violence.

00:03:15.240 So this is very dangerous for everybody.

00:03:17.800 It's dangerous for the left.

00:03:18.560 You can't have a country like that.

00:03:19.980 It's great news that the Trump administration comes out and says,

00:03:22.680 Antifa is a terrorist organization in the same way that we think of the Ku Klux Klan

00:03:26.160 as a terrorist organization.

00:03:27.840 We have Antifa.

00:03:28.720 Antifa, despite the protestations of the left, have uniforms.

00:03:31.920 They have flags.

00:03:32.980 They have meeting spots.

00:03:34.500 They train together.

00:03:35.760 They coordinate their attacks. 0.69

00:03:37.360 They're a terrorist organization. 0.54

00:03:39.120 And so the way to break them, the way that we broke the Ku Klux Klan, 0.62

00:03:41.640 the way that Giuliani broke the mafia is by treating them as an organization and holding 0.50

00:03:46.520 their members accountable. So we're starting to do that. That's all great. But what is driving it?

00:03:53.040 A lot of the attacks from Antifa, including the one that just sent a bunch of them to prison,

00:03:58.980 they're centered around immigration. So we say, okay, maybe it's immigration that's driving this.

00:04:03.120 Some of the Antifa members are immigrants or children of immigrants. A lot of them are kind

00:04:07.420 of pasty white leftists. But you say, well, the issue of immigration is clearly driving a lot of 0.61

00:04:12.300 that. And immigration is driving myriad social problems that we've talked about ad nauseum,

00:04:17.840 especially in the wake of the Mamdani elections last week. However, I don't think it's chiefly

00:04:22.960 immigration. Then people say, well, it's polarization. The left and the right used

00:04:27.200 to be more similar. There was more of a uniparty. Then the right wing broke into the Tea Party in 0.96

00:04:32.020 populist era, and the left wing got woke. And so the polarization is what's creating a lot of that

00:04:36.280 political tension yeah maybe to some degree maybe decaying institutions we no longer have faith in

00:04:42.180 our institutions and so because of that uh you know we take matters into our own hands we don't

00:04:47.700 we don't believe that the cops are there to protect us the left thinks that the cops are evil and they

00:04:52.280 need to be abolished and the right thinks that the cops are being hamstrung by the political order so

00:04:56.820 they're not going to protect us either we got to take matters into our own hands yeah sure there's

00:05:00.100 a little bit of that too. The one cause, though, that people haven't really made the connection

00:05:06.460 to, and it just occurred to me the other day while I was reading the Unabomber Manifesto,

00:05:10.600 no joke, telling on myself a little bit, but while I was reading Ted Kaczynski's

00:05:14.980 Industrial Society and its Future, it occurred to me the chief driver of political violence

00:05:22.600 in American history was the Industrial Revolution, the second Industrial Revolution.

00:05:28.080 There have been plenty of periods of political violence in American history.

00:05:32.120 Probably we think of the Civil War, that would be an example of it, which was right at the

00:05:36.900 beginning of the Second Industrial Revolution and did involve economic changes that pertained

00:05:41.360 to slavery. But even, let's just take that one out for a second. You think of political violence

00:05:46.240 in the 1960s and 70s with regard to civil rights and some of the social movements that were being

00:05:51.640 funded by the communists. You think of little rebellions that popped up in the 18th century.

00:05:55.920 But the most sustained period of political unrest and violence in American history occurs from roughly the 1880s through the 19-teens, basically right up to and right into World War I.

00:06:11.340 That's when you had the Haymarket Affair, 1886.

00:06:15.760 You had bombings in Chicago.

00:06:18.940 You had Pullman guards shooting people and being killed themselves.

00:06:22.600 You had the Homestead Strike in 1892.

00:06:24.540 You had the Pullman strike in 1894. You had the Ludlow massacre in 1914 in Colorado. You had the

00:06:29.960 Wall Street bombings in the 19-teens and 20s by left-wing anarchists, the exact same kind of

00:06:35.700 people who would be called Antifa today. You had Marxist professors from Harvard, no joke,

00:06:41.080 setting off bombs in the Capitol, eerily similar to what we're looking at today.

00:06:46.500 And it was occurring over that period of time. And what was driving it was not transgenderism 0.94

00:06:50.900 or some cultural issue, it was being driven in part by immigrants because immigrants were

00:06:54.840 heavily involved in it. But the big social change that was going on was the Industrial Revolution,

00:07:00.480 the second Industrial Revolution, that was totally changing the relationship of citizen to state

00:07:05.160 and of workers to employers and changing how capital was being employed. And I think that

00:07:11.560 we conservatives, because we realized that Karl Marx was very possibly possessed by the devil,

00:07:17.280 Excellent book by Paul Kanger, by the way, The Devil and Karl Marx, highly recommend on this

00:07:20.780 subject. Because of that, we kind of write off the Marxist critiques of markets and history,

00:07:28.000 but the Marxists actually do make a fair number of interesting observations.

00:07:32.200 Their prescriptions are horrible, but they do make interesting observations.

00:07:35.200 And it does seem to me that periods of massive technological change

00:07:39.860 leave societies very vulnerable to violence. And this is what brought me to Uncle Ted.

00:07:46.340 You know, the old Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski,

00:07:49.260 was a pretty sharp guy, you know,

00:07:51.360 graduate of top schools.

00:07:52.760 Did he ever graduate or did he drop out?

00:07:54.120 Anyway, very, you know, top schools, top education.

00:07:57.080 I think he got a little messed up by the CIA,

00:07:59.180 goes totally crazy and becomes a murderer.

00:08:00.980 But Uncle Ted, worth revisiting here,

00:08:06.000 not emulating his tactics, obviously,

00:08:07.960 but just revisiting his observations.

00:08:09.540 He opens up his manifesto,

00:08:11.940 Industrial Society and its Future,

00:08:13.140 by saying the Industrial Revolution

00:08:14.780 and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. And he makes points about political

00:08:20.540 change, especially political change on the right, that I think we ought to take to heart. Because

00:08:26.080 one of the recent overlords of the world, Klaus Schwab with the World Economic Forum,

00:08:31.900 don't forget what he refers to this time period as. He calls it the fourth industrial revolution.

00:08:36.500 You had the first industrial revolution, which brought you mechanized production.

00:08:43.180 Then you have the second industrial revolution, and that starts to bring you things like the assembly line.

00:08:47.780 That starts to bring you things like electricity.

00:08:50.520 Then you have the third industrial revolution.

00:08:52.600 That's the data revolution.

00:08:54.500 And now we're in this fourth industrial revolution where you have all of this kind of biohacking, artificial intelligence, dreams of transhumanism and cyborgs and really freaky stuff.

00:09:05.240 Well, if we are in another industrial revolution, that might help to explain some of the changes that we're seeing, some of the violence we're seeing.

00:09:11.340 So we'll get into the Unabomber's manifesto

00:09:13.680 before we get to the best reporter on Antifa, Andy Ngo.

00:09:18.540 First, though, I want to tell you about Armra.

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00:10:23.960 subscription order go to armor.com slash knolls enter knolls to get 30 off your first subscription

00:10:28.600 order. That's A-R-M-R-A dot com slash Knowles. What does the industrial revolution have to say

00:10:39.860 about political violence? Well, Kaczynski kind of opens up observing something really weird about

00:10:46.260 Republican politics for the last 30 years. It's ebbed a little bit since the Trump administration

00:10:51.520 and the economic populism. But before that, from the 90s, from the 80s really, through the middle

00:10:57.700 of the 20 teens, you would have these Republican politicians show up to the conservative group.

00:11:02.200 And they'd say, on the one hand, we need to preserve traditional values and traditional

00:11:06.780 institutions, and we need good old traditional family values. And then on the other hand,

00:11:12.340 they would say, we need creative destruction and unbridled capitalism and innovation and all.

00:11:19.240 And they didn't see that those two things were in conflict. That when you have massive innovation,

00:11:24.680 massive technological change especially, that is necessarily going to upset traditional values

00:11:29.580 and family dynamics. And in many ways, the populism of the Trump era was an answer to that.

00:11:35.820 A populism begun by Donald Trump himself, who was speaking out for workers whose jobs were displaced,

00:11:40.520 whose towns were destroyed, who then became addicted to opioids and further led to family

00:11:45.260 breakdown. You have it from him all the way up to J.D. Vance, who is this kind of perfect avatar

00:11:50.120 of that critique of the way societies function for the last 30, 40 years.

00:11:56.900 Kaczynski points out, he says, yeah, that was always going to happen. And this change in society

00:12:06.080 was always going to lead to lots and lots of decay that are going to alienate us from nature,

00:12:12.060 that are going to alienate us from society, that are going to treat human beings as machines and 0.65

00:12:15.880 commodities, as if we're worshiping the dumb idol of the machines themselves. And then he 0.97

00:12:22.840 reserves a great critique for modern leftism, which he says is based on self-esteem, like low

00:12:29.760 self-esteem. It's based on self-hatred. It's based on over-socialization, is another term,

00:12:37.720 which is the idea that the left is much more prone to consensus thinking. Think about,

00:12:41.980 i don't know if we have the images you know those those two images of the millennial girls 1.00

00:12:46.060 it's a millennial girl face the one when she was interviewing sydney sweeney the other one was

00:12:50.520 doing another interview and it's that kind of like you think and it's the kind of like wait

00:12:56.520 you think that two plus two equals four you know and i can't i'm not doing it i'm not doing my best

00:13:01.840 millennial girl face but it it's this this condescension which is in itself an appeal to

00:13:09.400 consensus so it it's not arguing on the merits it's just saying you believe that thing that like

00:13:15.860 no fancy people believe like it's just as if a a mocking smirk were somehow a substitute for

00:13:24.640 argumentation well what uh mr kosinski points out is that's that's kind of part of leftism

00:13:30.040 that the left and the right involve ideas but more than that being on the right or being on

00:13:36.880 the left, they're dispositions, kind of ways of seeing the world and acting in the world and

00:13:41.380 behaving. They're inclinations more than they are ideas. And this creates a perfect storm. So

00:13:49.920 it's not that immigration isn't a big driver of the political violence. I think it is. 1.00

00:13:55.500 Because immigration, especially mass migration of the scale that we've seen,

00:13:59.360 really unprecedented in human history, when you just totally change the demographics of a country, 0.63

00:14:05.540 The people are not going to assimilate in time.

00:14:07.140 They're going to bring with them their tribal and factional and national ethnic hostilities with them. 0.81

00:14:12.880 And you're going to get the breakdown of society in precisely the way George Washington feared, 0.73

00:14:18.260 which is not political parties debating ideas, but actual factionalism.

00:14:21.780 That's what's going on in New York.

00:14:22.960 That's this new AOC, the DAC chick, Dario Lella Avila Chevalier, whatever her name is. 1.00

00:14:29.760 She made this post that's now infamous and gone viral in which she excoriates ugly white women 1.00

00:14:37.260 for taking all of the hot Arab and black men. This is like a real post that she made. 0.99

00:14:43.380 This reflects not some political ideology or philosophy. This is just a pure ethnic and

00:14:50.260 sexual hostility. So anyway, migration obviously plays a big role into that.

00:14:55.820 the corruption and decadence of our institutions obviously plays a big role in that, which pertains 0.75

00:15:02.300 to the corruption of the media. Because if the media are going to tell you that the president

00:15:04.820 is Hitler, as they've done with Trump for 10 years, then you're going to be more inclined 0.92

00:15:08.460 to go stop Hitler because you've been programmed to know that Hitler is the devil. He is the 0.98

00:15:12.420 incarnation of evil. And so anyone who is compared to Hitler becomes a target. That obviously plays 0.90

00:15:18.580 a role as well. But I think the special sauce on driving this political violence

00:15:26.420 is probably the technological change. I mean, for goodness sakes, think about it.

00:15:33.680 If the fourth industrial revolution is about changing the relationship of human beings to

00:15:37.840 technology, not just plugging in some electricity or creating assembly lines, which touch on the

00:15:44.980 relationship between humans and technology, but actually turning us into cyborgs, saying that

00:15:49.060 our natural bodies don't matter and our immaterial self is all that matters. Think about one of the

00:15:55.040 crucial touch points of the political violence. It's transgenderism. It's not just migration, 1.00

00:16:00.980 which is also kind of about saying that bodies don't really matter to a body politic. You can

00:16:06.580 swap out all the people. You'll have the same country because America is a creedal nation and 0.89

00:16:09.840 we have a constitution. That isn't true. But then the other big touch point is all these

00:16:14.480 trannies who are killing people, and especially killing themselves at very, very high numbers. 1.00

00:16:19.520 Well, what is that about? That is responding to technology that constantly isolates and alienates 1.00

00:16:26.520 us from ourselves to the point of saying that our bodies don't really matter and that we are

00:16:31.580 something other than our bodies. It seems to me that is the key. Is this actually something

00:16:35.800 we can kind of learn. We can learn from the Marxists, and we can learn from the libertarian

00:16:41.220 individualists, right-wing terrorists. They agree. I guess the horseshoe works, but they do have a

00:16:47.060 keen insight here, not in how we react to these things. The way we react has to be to restore

00:16:51.160 political order, to build up our institutions again, to get rid of, to deport the foreigners 1.00

00:16:57.420 who really don't belong here and who make the country worse, to engage with technological 1.00

00:17:02.460 development with some caution, recognizing that technology can be a good thing, but it has to

00:17:08.920 serve us rather than we serving it. And that's a tough dance to pull off. We have to recognize

00:17:16.220 that if history is any predictor, we find ourselves in much the same historical circumstances

00:17:26.220 as you saw during the very worst period for political violence ever in American history,

00:17:30.380 both on the technological level on the percentage of the country that is foreign-born which reached

00:17:36.240 its peak in the early 20th century so much so that in 1924 we basically turned off immigration

00:17:40.320 and that was the case for 40 years in other words the political violence problem is not going to be

00:17:47.380 solved by just talking more to the left it's not going to be solved merely by arresting antif

00:17:53.560 operatives so that's a good start it's not even going to be solved by deportation so that would

00:17:58.440 go a long way. We are in, not history repeating itself, but history rhyming. We are in a moment

00:18:04.260 where there is a playbook. We saw how this played out last time, and it's very, very dangerous. So

00:18:09.760 to help describe that danger a little bit, we have my friend, Andy Ngo, the greatest

00:18:14.220 Antifa journalist. He's not a member of Antifa. He's a journalist of Antifa.

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00:20:29.400 Okay, I'm very pleased to bring on Andy Ngo. The New York Times tells me that these people are not

00:20:37.080 terrorists or murderers or anything but it's says that they're protesters the truth is what came out

00:20:43.400 at trial the lies from the liberal media are coming from journalists who are sympathetic to

00:20:48.280 the terrorism their whole world of lies about antifa is crumbling members of an antifa cell

00:20:54.600 in texas have been sentenced some are saying severely i would say appropriately for an attack

00:21:02.120 on an ice facility, and the attempted murder of a cop, of a police officer. And mainstream Democrats

00:21:09.220 are whining and screaming and crying about it. We're talking about members of Congress.

00:21:12.900 We're talking about the New York Times. I am so pleased to be joined by probably the greatest

00:21:18.600 journalist of Antifa going on some 10 years now, however long it's been. That would be my friend,

00:21:24.760 Andy Ngo, to tell us what this case is all about. Andy, I just saw you in the UK,

00:21:29.080 and now we were up very late chatting and drinking and eating and smoking cigars.

00:21:35.020 And now this big Antifa story comes up and I have to bring you on my show.

00:21:41.060 Thanks so much for having me on, Michael.

00:21:43.220 I've been tracking the story from day one, just about a year ago.

00:21:47.880 So on background, I assume most people haven't heard about it.

00:21:50.760 I'm not surprised the liberal media hasn't covered this case at all for reasons that I'll explain.

00:21:57.200 So on the 4th of July last year, 2025, there was a group of Antifa militants in the Dallas area who went to Alvarado, Texas and launched large explosive fireworks to lure out staff that were working inside the ICE facility, agents inside and police who were called to the area.

00:22:19.060 and then it was an ambush shooting one of the militants in the group who through court we've

00:22:25.720 learned was the ringleader Benjamin Song shot an Alvarado police officer in the neck and then he

00:22:33.900 hid in the wooded areas and became a Texas top 10 most wanted FBI most wanted suspect for 11 days

00:22:41.880 there was a huge manhunt across Texas and he was eventually captured but we learned that

00:22:48.300 He had been moved from safe house to safe house.

00:22:52.620 There was a whole network of these Antifa militants

00:22:54.980 who were part of this cell in the North Texas area.

00:22:57.880 Okay, now hold on.

00:22:58.480 I got to pause you there.

00:22:59.220 I got to pause you there

00:22:59.860 because the New York Times tells me

00:23:01.860 that these people are not terrorists

00:23:04.680 or murderers or anything,

00:23:06.040 but it says that they're protesters.

00:23:09.360 So what you just described is not a protest.

00:23:11.760 What you just described is a terrorist attack

00:23:14.640 or at least an act of political violence.

00:23:18.300 And then it says it's protesters accused of Antifa ties.

00:23:23.920 It's not saying there are any Antifa ties, but you're describing a tightly knit network of safe houses and people who are conspiring to commit these actions.

00:23:31.900 So who's telling the truth?

00:23:33.060 You were the New York Times.

00:23:35.720 The truth is what came out at trial.

00:23:38.160 So 16 of them were federally charged with felonies ranging from providing material support to terrorists to conspiracy to attempted murder and other serious charges.

00:23:51.500 And at trial, we learned because five of them pleaded guilty and agreed to flip and testify for the prosecution, and they admitted to the court that they organized behind an Antifa ideology, which is why I say that this was an Antifa cell.

00:24:10.620 It's what the prosecutors said, and it's also what was proven at court.

00:24:15.380 There was extensive recovered signal communications from their various groups that they had established on signal to coordinate, to plan.

00:24:25.300 They had trained with firearms and tactical trainings before the attack.

00:24:29.300 So they proved beyond a reasonable doubt to the jury that this was a terrorist attack.

00:24:35.160 And all nine who went to trial, and there were seven others who pleaded guilty, were convicted. And yesterday, eight of the 16 were sentenced to decades in prison, the longest sentences we've ever seen for convicted Antifa terrorists.

00:24:55.780 And the case that is so important because it's the first time in U.S. history that the federal government has accused and then was able to get convictions for suspects accused of being part of an Antifa cell and terrorism as well.

00:25:12.500 So now the liberal media can and Democrats can no longer say that there's no evidence of organized Antifa terror violence.

00:25:19.220 there is. We have 16 convictions, and eight of them so far are looking at 450 years in federal

00:25:25.760 prison. Their legal rules are not over. They still have the state trials upcoming. The state of Texas

00:25:31.240 is prosecuting them as well on things like the state equivalent of RICO, attempted murder,

00:25:37.140 conspiracy. So they have a lot of things going on that they have to deal with still.

00:25:42.440 But hold on, I have to stop you there, Andy, because the liberal media are going to continue

00:25:47.200 to deny this. In fact, an outlet from where you're living now in the UK, The Guardian,

00:25:53.380 came out and denied that there was really any such thing as Antifa. And they're reporting on this

00:25:58.360 case. They said, look, this is a loose collection of activists who all go to the same bookshops and

00:26:05.140 join the same gun clubs. I kid you not. It's almost a verbatim read on how they reported this.

00:26:10.240 And so they say, there's no such thing as Antifa. There's no real organization. There's no shared

00:26:16.240 ideology. There's no conspiracy, no training. That seems to still be the party line even after

00:26:24.000 this conviction. So the journalists who are writing pieces like that, and there are many of

00:26:30.040 them, this one with The Guardian, I'm very familiar with his work. He's an American.

00:26:34.060 These are sympathizers of Antifa terrorism. And I think what's particularly disturbing about them

00:26:39.500 calling these convicted terrorists protesters or activists, and these are words they use,

00:26:45.120 and they also call the shooting a noise demo that's what they actually print i think they're

00:26:50.480 anticipating that hopefully these types of pieces can then be used in wikipedia citations ai and

00:26:56.480 google citations and then at some point when there's a democrat president these articles could

00:27:01.680 be put in front of that president to try to get pardons fortunately that the state of texas is

00:27:08.880 still pursuing serious felonies against them but what the media doing is not it's not just spin

00:27:15.120 and bias i believe that they have an agenda that they're anticipating and also they're doing it

00:27:19.840 because their whole uh world of lies about antifa is crumbling we and notice that they don't go into

00:27:28.160 the details of what was presented at trial they don't quote from the five who flipped on their

00:27:34.160 comrades and testified. And they're about to be sentenced next week, by the way. And the evidence

00:27:40.520 is indisputable. There were stipulated facts that were presented to the court and signed by those

00:27:45.800 who pleaded guilty. And that was the strongest evidence. The prosecutors were able to get the

00:27:51.700 deleted and destroyed, encrypted signal messages and show that how coordinated and planned they

00:27:58.960 were. Yeah, it seems to me kind of mind-boggling that you could deny that it's an organization

00:28:05.960 and coordinated and planned when you have not just the signal messages, but you have

00:28:11.160 the uniforms, the Antifa flags. In this particular instance, you know the bookshops,

00:28:17.960 you know the actions that they undertook at the facility. And so I think you're probably right.

00:28:25.360 The most charitable view you can make is they know that they're lying here, but they are sympathetic.

00:28:30.700 They think that they'll get elected Democrats who will also be sympathetic, and they can try to secure pardons.

00:28:36.340 I mean, there's a very good basis for all of it.

00:28:40.340 You mentioned the RICO charges here, that the states are trying to pursue RICO, which is how the state ended up cracking organized crime.

00:28:48.740 One thing I don't get, especially from the Guardian's reporting, is they say that to prosecute Antifa in this way is a threat to free speech.

00:28:56.240 To go after them and look at the bookshops and the ideology and the zines and the materials, that really poses a threat to free speech.

00:29:03.000 And I think, well, hold on. 0.66

00:29:03.960 Isn't this exactly the way that the government broke up the Ku Klux Klan?

00:29:08.740 They didn't have any problem when it was going after the KKK.

00:29:11.200 They didn't have a problem when it was going after the mafia.

00:29:13.500 What is unique about Antifa that makes it such a big issue?

00:29:16.880 they're not being prosecuted on an ideology that would be illegal and that they just can't do that

00:29:24.740 the reason why ideology was even explored by the prosecutors is because there was a lot of evidence

00:29:30.100 that the ideology that they organized the so-called antifa ideology was anti-government

00:29:35.940 and was for the purposes of insurrection against the state so that's why ideology came in it explained

00:29:43.220 provided context to why they met one another, organized, why they did the tactical training.

00:29:50.180 Again, the lies from the liberal media are coming from journalists who are sympathetic to the

00:29:55.320 terrorism. I feel very comfortable saying that. I've read the writings of some of these authors

00:30:00.300 over the years, and they apply one standard, for example, to the January 6th protesters and

00:30:07.460 rioters, and then a completely different standard to those who were involved in ambush shooting.

00:30:13.220 Of course, you even see this in the reporting from The Guardian on January 6th.

00:30:17.960 I figure it's The Guardian and The New York Times.

00:30:19.400 It's one of the two, maybe both.

00:30:20.980 Where you recall, well, hold on.

00:30:22.520 On January 6th, the only person who was killed in political violence was one of the rioters,

00:30:27.980 one of the demonstrators, killed by a trigger-happy cop.

00:30:31.140 Here, the activists and the protesters, so-called, went out and lit off explosives and shot a cop in the neck.

00:30:38.240 The real heyday, it seems to me, of Antifa, when this really came to the fore of the public

00:30:43.280 imagination, was at this point, about 10 years ago, when Antifa was showing up to a lot of the

00:30:48.260 speeches that a lot of people in conservative media were giving. They showed up to one of my

00:30:52.980 speeches, one of my debates at Pittsburgh. You were very on the money about covering that story

00:30:59.180 when media outlets really didn't want to touch it. Ultimately, that ended in a federal prosecution.

00:31:04.700 But I think a lot of people think Antifa just sort of went away.

00:31:07.860 That was something for the late 20-teens, early 2020s, but now they've kind of gone away now.

00:31:14.300 Where does it stand? Where does the threat of Antifa lie?

00:31:18.740 Well, the nature of them being a decentralized movement is that there's not going to be one direction of movement across entire groups, plural.

00:31:28.960 For example, Rose City Antifa and the Antifa in Portland have largely pulled back.

00:31:34.740 But in places like Minnesota and in Texas, they've accelerated.

00:31:39.440 So we don't really know how they're going to respond going forward,

00:31:42.360 given the long sentences and convictions that happened against their comrades.

00:31:46.520 I am tracking what they're saying on places like Blue Sky,

00:31:49.220 and a lot of them have been issuing death threats and calls of violence against the two sentencing judges yesterday.

00:31:56.060 What do you make of the more prominent left-wing media figures and politicians who are not card-carrying members of Antifa, but guys like Hassan Piker who call for the murder of multiple U.S. senators, say the streets should run red in the blood of capitalists, say America deserves terror attacks like 9-11?

00:32:13.720 And what do you make of Rashida Tlaib, who is a Democrat congressman who comes out, says that the sentencing of the Antifa activists and murderers was a tragedy, was egregious, and they should have gotten off the hook.

00:32:28.980 Does this mean – is it going too far to say that the Democrats are now the party of Antifa?

00:32:35.000 Is that not quite happened yet? Or is Antifa gaining ground within the mainstream of the party?

00:32:40.720 Or are those just a couple of fringe actors that we don't need to worry so much about?

00:32:45.540 I think it's yet again evidence that the Democrat Party is the party of political violence.

00:32:53.120 And the fact that we have a congresswoman like Rashida Tlaib expressing sympathy with those

00:32:59.580 who were engaged in anti-government terrorism when she is in the government.

00:33:04.700 And many, many others like her elected at local levels, not in Congress,

00:33:09.940 but serving on city councils across the United States with affiliations to the DSA.

00:33:17.220 And people like Hassan Piker and other influencers on the left

00:33:20.440 have been normalizing the language of political violence

00:33:24.400 So that, for example, when one of their comrades commits acts of terror, it gets support and or is whitewashed by liberal media and figures on the left.

00:33:38.900 And then they call for retribution and revenge against those who seek to hold them accountable, as we're seeing now with threats against the court.

00:33:47.420 Of course, of course. But the Rashida Tlaib faction does seem to be growing. There were

00:33:55.620 these big elections in New York where the Democratic socialists were winning with the

00:34:00.800 support of Zoran Mamdani. You saw the Democrat socialists now, according to CNN, have more support

00:34:05.740 among mainstream Democrats than elected Democrat members of Congress. So I think you're probably

00:34:11.340 right about the political violence problem. Rashida Tlaib goes on and says, no, the problem

00:34:16.160 with these prosecutions is that they're the result of President Trump's new national security order

00:34:22.120 classifying Antifa as a domestic terror organization. This is going to be used to

00:34:26.240 clamp down on the left more broadly. My understanding of the case was the case really

00:34:30.080 has almost nothing to do with President Trump declaring Antifa a domestic terror organization.

00:34:36.340 It has nothing to do in terms of if you look at what they were prosecuted with. The legislation

00:34:42.720 that applied is it's not new legislation. They don't cite, prosecutors don't cite the executive

00:34:48.340 order or anything. But to me, it is clear. And also the fact that members of the Trump

00:34:53.200 administration have claimed this as a victory is that the DOJ is taking a directive from the

00:34:59.320 executive that this movement must be treated as domestic terrorist threats. We saw what happened

00:35:06.140 under former Attorney General Barr during the 2020 BLM Antifa riots. I saw a lot of

00:35:14.640 terroristic crimes that were being committed by Antifa and BLM and other violent extremists in

00:35:20.040 places like Portland and Seattle. And they were not prosecuted, or if they were, there were some,

00:35:25.960 they would get these sweetheart plea deals where they would have to do community service and get

00:35:30.920 probation for maybe six months and then the charge would be expunged from their record so that that's

00:35:38.200 what happens when you know if the doj wasn't following the agenda of the president unfortunately

00:35:44.640 we have the doj now that understands and has already experienced the threats from antifa

00:35:51.200 and they're acting on with the current legislation that exists and prosecuting these violent

00:35:57.540 extremists for crimes that they commit. And the shock that we are seeing from the far left

00:36:03.480 shows that they've been so comfortable with committing terror and killings and violence that

00:36:08.940 when they are held accountable, they view it as a travesty and a human rights violation.

00:36:15.680 It's such an indictment of the DOJ in years past. The way Rashida Tlaib is presenting this,

00:36:21.520 it's as if Trump changed the law all of a sudden. But he didn't. To your point, he just said,

00:36:26.040 hey, guys, you should focus on the people who are committing the terrorism.

00:36:30.420 In other words, the crimes that are already on the books.

00:36:33.320 And so then they're prosecuted for crimes that have long been on the books.

00:36:37.140 And the left is shocked and appalled that the law would ever be applied to them.

00:36:42.560 What an indictment that is of our justice system.

00:36:45.260 What an indictment that is of our own side that we did not insist upon that

00:36:48.860 for a problem that has been festering for years and well over a decade.

00:36:53.500 correct and but perhaps ending on a positive note i don't think that the what we've seen in texas

00:37:01.780 ends in texas just recently there were 15 accused antifa militants who were federally indicted

00:37:08.540 in the state of minnesota and accused of conspiring to injure and or impede federal

00:37:15.720 agents and officers and that's a serious felony and those people were arrested and some of the

00:37:21.160 evidence that has come out in the indictment is that there's an Antifa, a clear Antifa blog

00:37:27.080 association with at least one of the members on Crimethink, actually, which is this online Antifa

00:37:33.440 propaganda site slash blog, and its writings and materials encouraging violence and terrorism is

00:37:40.100 really influential in Antifa and anarchist circles. In fact, the Depepa couple, the man and woman who

00:37:47.200 were convicted for the bombing of the event you were at at the university of pittsburgh they had

00:37:53.580 material from crime think so in little pieces we're seeing how across the u.s the tactics and

00:38:00.660 networks are linked and as well as um the propaganda materials and the training materials

00:38:06.820 of course it's it it seems to me a willful ignorance on the part of most people in politics

00:38:12.420 who pretend that there is not an Antifa ideology and connected Antifa networks.

00:38:18.040 It's a kind of a political nominalism that tells you,

00:38:21.100 oh, no, only focus on the particulars.

00:38:22.840 These guys have nothing to do with each other.

00:38:24.420 Meanwhile, they have uniforms and flags.

00:38:26.320 It seems pretty unified to me, relatively speaking, for this kind of a political group.

00:38:31.680 Before I let you go, Andy, I understand you're working on another book.

00:38:35.100 Is that correct?

00:38:37.320 I am.

00:38:38.320 Thanks for asking me about it.

00:38:39.560 uh i will say more about it very very soon when i say i understand you're working on another book

00:38:46.340 i say that because i have a copy of it and uh andy i this is not flattery and i'm not just

00:38:53.320 telling you to i mean we can we tell people the title since you can pre-order it right now

00:38:57.140 so the title is the the zizians zizians and it's it's based on this crazy 0.99

00:39:04.440 trans cult, like the wackiest thing you ever heard as I'm reading it. And I'm obviously very, 1.00

00:39:11.180 very familiar with your work. We've been friends for a number of years now, many years now.

00:39:15.220 And I can't look away. I'm going to say, this is the craziest story ever. And so I strongly

00:39:21.240 encourage everyone to go pre-order this book, The Zizians by Andy Ngo, that we can't say anything

00:39:27.080 else about until you announce more of it in the near future. Thank you. Well, I'll say a little

00:39:34.360 a bit more. The book is about a phenomenon that I'm sure many of your viewers and listeners have

00:39:40.400 observed over the last five years, is that there's an element of surging trans violence in America.

00:39:46.560 And I focus on particular one cult in the United States that most people have not heard of,

00:39:52.880 a trans death cult that have been linked to eight deaths. And they were able to use 1.00

00:39:58.420 leftist grievance ideology and leftist politics to allegedly commit killing after killing over

00:40:05.900 the years and get away with it because they were doing it in jurisdictions where those in power

00:40:11.040 did not feel comfortable going strongly after a group of people who identified as trans.

00:40:18.260 It's an unbelievable hook. The book is phenomenal and everybody needs to go pre-order it. But we'll

00:40:23.420 talk more about that when it actually comes out and when you announce it. In the meantime, Andy,

00:40:26.720 Thank you very much for being here.

00:40:28.460 Where can everybody follow you?

00:40:31.100 My substack is ngocomment.com,

00:40:34.880 and I am on X at MrAndyNGO.

00:40:39.120 It's never occurred to me

00:40:40.500 how you precisely spell your last name.

00:40:43.100 It's the only NGO I like, just about.

00:40:45.280 The only NGO I like is the Andy one.

00:40:47.600 Andy, good to see you.

00:40:49.320 Thank you. My pleasure.

00:40:51.340 That's our show.

00:40:52.220 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:40:52.800 This is The Michael Knowles Show.

00:40:53.680 See you tomorrow.

00:40:56.720 Thank you.

The Michael Knowles Show - July 10, 2026

Ep. 2013 - The Industrial Revolution Has Been a Disaster For The Human Race

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