The Michael Knowles Show - Ep. 205 - Are You Not Entertained？

00:00:00.000 Admitted liar Michael Cohen has turned on his former client Donald Trump in an attempt to avoid prison time for his crimes.

00:00:07.120 Cohen's lawyer Lanny Davis, who previously represented disbarred criminal ex-president Bill Clinton,

00:00:13.020 is promising to take down the duly elected president by helping the investigation of Bob Mueller,

00:00:18.180 the lawless special counsel who was appointed to investigate Russian meddling in 2016

00:00:22.300 and after two years has found nothing other than Paul Manafort's expensive taste in suits 0.85

00:00:26.940 and Michael Cohen's testimony that the president who brags about sleeping with porn stars may have slept with a porn star. 0.97

00:00:33.800 What drama! What television! 0.95

00:00:36.680 Did you expect anything less from the star of reality TV?

00:00:40.660 We will analyze what the Cohen plea really means, how it's likely to shake out legally, and what it means politically.

00:00:47.300 Then, as if that weren't enough, masterpiece cake shop baker Jack Phillips will stop by

00:00:52.620 to discuss the left's latest attempt to ruin his life and destroy all of our religious freedom.

00:00:58.080 The mainstream media have suddenly lost interest in Molly Tibbetts.

00:01:00.940 Hmm, wonder why? Wonder what changed? Hmm?

00:01:03.480 And, finally, what Republicans can learn from Bill Clinton on this day in history.

00:01:08.520 I'm Michael Knowles and this is The Michael Knowles Show.

00:01:10.360 Can we fit anything else in today? I feel like there's not enough to talk about.

00:01:20.700 Has anything happened in the last 24 hours?

00:01:24.540 Before we get to it, there is so much to get to.

00:01:27.300 And I gotta tell you, this is one of these examples, this is one of these rare occasions

00:01:30.980 where I agree with Ben's analysis on this almost exactly, almost to a point I agree with his analysis.

00:01:39.800 The difference being that I'm fairly hopeful about how it's all going to turn out.

00:01:43.680 But I'll explain my cause for hope.

00:01:45.580 It's not just empty optimism, it's hope.

00:01:47.340 Before we do that, I've got something else that should give you hope, and that is Lending Club.

00:01:51.260 Gotta thank our great sponsors over at Lending Club.

00:01:54.540 I really like Lending Club because for decades, credit cards have been telling us,

00:01:58.440 buy it now, pay for it later, with interest.

00:02:00.800 And despite your best intentions, that interest can get out of control fast.

00:02:05.000 With Lending Club, you can consolidate all of your debt, pay off credit cards with one fixed monthly payment.

00:02:11.160 These credit card companies, they prey on people.

00:02:13.300 I've seen them do it to friends, family.

00:02:16.320 They will, you know, they get you on the hook, and then you're paying these insane interest rates.

00:02:20.740 Don't do that. There is a much better way. It's very easy.

00:02:22.800 Since 2007, Lending Club has helped millions of people regain control of their finances

00:02:27.220 with affordable, fixed-rate personal loans.

00:02:30.220 No trips to the bank, no high-interest credit cards. 0.99

00:02:32.320 Don't be foolish. Don't pay these giant financial institutions way more than you need to. 0.98

00:02:36.760 Go to LendingClub.com, tell them about yourself, how much you want to borrow.

00:02:39.580 If you're approved, a loan is automatically deposited into your bank account in just a few days.

00:02:43.840 Lending Club is the number one peer-to-peer lending platform.

00:02:46.040 Over $35 billion, billion with a B, in loans issued.

00:02:49.280 Go to LendingClub.com slash Knowles, K-O-W-L-E-S.

00:02:53.020 Check your rate in minutes. Borrow up to $40,000.

00:02:55.380 That is LendingClub.com slash Knowles, K-O-W-L-E-S.

00:02:59.100 This could really, really help you out, especially if you've got some fixes to the house you need to make,

00:03:03.660 some credit cards. Take it from me. Do not pay these institutions more than you need to.

00:03:08.960 LendingClub.com slash Knowles.

00:03:10.440 All loans made by WebBank.

00:03:12.060 Remember, FDIC equal housing lender.

00:03:14.540 So, what do we got today?

00:03:15.660 We've got the Manafort verdict.

00:03:18.340 We've got Michael Cohen.

00:03:20.300 Within minutes, Michael Cohen pleads guilty.

00:03:22.320 The president under fire.

00:03:24.060 Talks of impeachment.

00:03:26.280 Talks of putting off Brett Kavanaugh's appointment to the court.

00:03:29.900 Talks of a sex scandal taking down the presidency.

00:03:32.120 Russell Crowe, take it away.

00:03:40.120 Are you not entertained?

00:03:42.260 Are you not entertained?

00:03:46.300 Is this not why you are here?

00:03:47.660 That's why I'm here.

00:03:50.300 That is why I'm here, Russell.

00:03:51.760 Are you not entertained?

00:03:52.700 Is this not what you signed up for when you elected a reality TV star to become president?

00:03:57.400 Of course.

00:03:58.400 Of course.

00:03:59.120 The way this played out is unbelievable.

00:04:01.980 It's the most dramatic presidency, maybe ever.

00:04:04.780 Probably the most dramatic presidential scene since the Ford Theater.

00:04:07.580 We've got, just consider the coincidence or the providence or who knows, of Paul Manafort, the campaign chairman for, former campaign chairman for Donald Trump, being found guilty of some charges, not all of his charges.

00:04:21.260 And then just minutes later, Michael Cohen, the president's former personal lawyer, pleads guilty to certain crimes.

00:04:27.260 In many cases, the same crimes.

00:04:29.640 This, there's a lot to dissect here.

00:04:32.000 So I do want to, I want to get through all the specifics of it, then I want to zoom out and analyze what really will be the legal and political effects of this.

00:04:38.680 Because I think sometimes when people are doing analysis, they get so lost in the weeds, they miss the bigger picture.

00:04:43.840 In the weeds, things don't look good for the president.

00:04:46.240 In the bigger picture, things look very good for the president.

00:04:49.780 Let's get into the specifics first.

00:04:51.400 And then we're going to bring on Jack Phillips.

00:04:53.440 So, Paul Manafort, found guilty for what?

00:04:56.020 Tax fraud, bank fraud in Virginia.

00:04:59.460 Tax fraud and bank fraud.

00:05:00.480 And what the prosecution kept bringing up is all his nice suits.

00:05:03.560 And he spent money frivolously and whatever.

00:05:05.440 But that's what they got him on.

00:05:06.360 Tax fraud and bank fraud.

00:05:07.560 Minutes later, Michael Cohen, what's he found guilty of?

00:05:10.520 Or what does he admit guilt to?

00:05:12.280 Tax fraud, bank fraud.

00:05:13.460 And campaign finance.

00:05:14.780 Campaign finance violations.

00:05:16.660 So, two of the three, the exact same thing as Paul Manafort.

00:05:19.980 Tax fraud, bank fraud.

00:05:21.500 Now, consider how the media are treating these two guys.

00:05:24.760 Because they're, they pled guilty to basically the same things.

00:05:27.900 Cohen, or they were found guilty.

00:05:30.060 And pled guilty to basically the same things.

00:05:32.460 Cohen actually pled guilt to another crime, which is campaign finance violations.

00:05:38.240 How do they treat them? 0.99

00:05:39.200 Manafort is a vicious, horrible monster. 1.00

00:05:41.740 Cohen, all of a sudden. 0.99

00:05:42.900 People are getting a strange new respect for Michael Cohen, aren't they?

00:05:45.620 He's free.

00:05:46.680 He's liberated.

00:05:47.520 He's going to take down the president. 1.00

00:05:48.820 No, he's a crook. 1.00

00:05:50.040 He's a crook. 1.00

00:05:50.580 If Manafort's a crook, he's a crook. 0.99

00:05:52.800 The difference is that the left thinks that Cohen's testimony is going to hurt Trump and Manafort isn't. 1.00

00:05:58.500 Because Manafort took it like a man and Michael Cohen is a dirty little rat. 0.99

00:06:02.020 But we'll see. 0.99

00:06:03.860 We'll see what effect that has.

00:06:07.040 So, okay.

00:06:08.120 What did Cohen plead guilty to?

00:06:10.360 Cohen pled guilty to tax fraud.

00:06:11.840 Five counts of it between 2012 and 2016.

00:06:14.700 He made false statements to a bank a couple years ago.

00:06:17.240 Unlawful campaign contribution 2016.

00:06:19.880 Excessive campaign contribution 2016.

00:06:22.400 And that's what the media are focusing on.

00:06:25.500 Before we get into the specifics too much on these guys, I do want to point out campaign finance laws are mostly nonsense and anti-constitutional.

00:06:34.620 These laws that say you can only contribute so much to a candidate.

00:06:37.640 You can only spend money this way.

00:06:39.000 You can only spend money that way.

00:06:40.860 Those laws limit your political speech.

00:06:44.860 They limit your freedom of speech.

00:06:46.780 Money is speech in politics.

00:06:48.600 The poster that you're holding up in politics is a political expression.

00:06:53.160 It's a manifestation of your free speech.

00:06:55.300 And that poster ain't free.

00:06:56.900 It costs money to buy the markers and to buy the poster board and to hold it up there.

00:07:00.500 It costs money.

00:07:01.300 It costs time.

00:07:02.060 Same thing with campaign commercials.

00:07:03.740 Same thing with flyers.

00:07:05.420 Same thing with websites.

00:07:06.420 Same thing with buses.

00:07:08.080 Same thing with all of that.

00:07:09.240 This political speech costs money because we live in a real world and campaigns are tangible things.

00:07:15.000 Campaign finance laws, mostly nonsense, mostly arbitrary.

00:07:19.100 Many of them have been struck down by the Supreme Court.

00:07:21.040 The McCain-Feingold campaign finance law was famously struck down in the Citizens United decision.

00:07:26.480 And it doesn't make any sense to have these laws because people are going to spend money on politics.

00:07:31.120 Big politics attracts big money.

00:07:32.940 Surprisingly, not as much money as you would think.

00:07:34.920 You'd think these presidential campaigns are so consequential they'd cost $5 billion, $7 billion.

00:07:40.440 No way.

00:07:41.040 Far less than that.

00:07:42.400 But if there's a limit, let's say there's a federal limit of $5,000 you can spend on a candidate.

00:07:47.900 Those candidates' backers are still going to spend money on them.

00:07:50.680 They're just going to find other ways to spend it.

00:07:52.240 They're going to spend it in super PACs.

00:07:53.800 That's been one consequence of recent years.

00:07:56.120 They're going to spend it in little back channels.

00:07:58.520 They're going to use straw donations.

00:08:00.740 They're going to have family members donate money, even though it's really just their own personal money.

00:08:04.600 This is how they got Dinesh D'Souza.

00:08:06.320 Dinesh D'Souza had to go to the slammer and hang out with murderers and rapists

00:08:09.880 because he funneled some money to his friend Wendy Long who was never going to win a race anyway. 0.99

00:08:16.780 So I think those laws in general are ridiculous.

00:08:19.800 That said, they are the laws, so it's very easy for prosecutors to get you on campaign finance.

00:08:25.320 The laws are very obscure, and if you violate them in any way, they can really nail you.

00:08:30.160 Now, what we know from Michael Cohen is that there's no cooperation deal.

00:08:33.540 What does that mean?

00:08:34.140 What does it mean?

00:08:35.460 That he's not, apparently not cooperating with investigators and prosecutors,

00:08:40.320 but then Lanny Davis comes out, Michael Cohen's lawyer, and says he has info for Mueller,

00:08:46.340 and he really wants to give the info for Mueller.

00:08:48.100 Here's Lanny Davis. 0.94

00:08:50.120 I can tell you that Mr. Cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel

00:08:59.520 and is more than happy to tell the special counsel all that he knows,

00:09:04.680 not just about the obvious possibility of a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the American democracy system

00:09:14.400 in the 2016 election, which the Trump Tower meeting was all about,

00:09:19.480 but also knowledge about the computer crime of hacking

00:09:23.460 and whether or not Mr. Trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on.

00:09:31.020 And we know he publicly cheered it on, but did he also have private information?

00:09:36.120 Hold on there.

00:09:37.220 I'm sorry.

00:09:37.460 I'm a little confused.

00:09:38.800 So Lanny Davis is saying, we've got all this info, Mr. Mueller.

00:09:42.320 Come on.

00:09:42.940 I know you want it.

00:09:44.000 We have info.

00:09:45.140 We can answer the question.

00:09:46.400 Did Trump cheer on the hacking and the Russians finding information from those hacked servers?

00:09:53.560 Did he cheer it on?

00:09:55.020 And then Lanny Davis admits.

00:09:56.000 He said, well, yeah, I mean, we know he did because he did it publicly.

00:09:58.920 So what do I need you for?

00:10:00.720 What are you going to give me?

00:10:02.600 This is the great thing about Donald Trump.

00:10:04.740 And this is actually what distinguishes him from other politicians who have been,

00:10:08.280 you know, maybe a little fast and loose with their mouths 0.87

00:10:11.220 and fast and loose with other aspects of their lives.

00:10:14.880 Like Bill Clinton, as an example, is Clinton would always kind of pretend.

00:10:18.760 He would always try to be too clever by half.

00:10:21.100 With Donald Trump, he just tells you.

00:10:23.140 He said, yeah, hey, if you find those Clinton emails, Russia, give them to me. 0.80

00:10:26.540 I want to see them.

00:10:27.400 We all want to know where they went.

00:10:28.980 He's sort of a guileless figure in that way.

00:10:32.940 He's an honest broker in that regard.

00:10:35.800 He said, this is what I want.

00:10:36.800 I'm a straight talker.

00:10:37.740 I'm a straight shooter.

00:10:38.580 And I speak like a New Yorker.

00:10:39.960 So there's a little bit of a difference there.

00:10:41.360 And look, he's obviously begging, right?

00:10:42.760 I mean, they're begging, please give us some special care.

00:10:46.140 Please, please.

00:10:46.920 We want to help you out.

00:10:48.280 We want to help you out.

00:10:49.020 And of course, Lanny Davis has to spin all of this, right? 0.99

00:10:52.280 Because we know that Michael Cohen is a liar. 1.00

00:10:55.360 He's an admitted liar. 1.00

00:10:56.420 The events of yesterday show us that he's a liar. 1.00

00:10:59.200 But he's got to spin it and turn this guy, 0.98

00:11:01.200 who's basically a dodgy kind of crooked New York lawyer,

00:11:04.540 into this saint, this martyr for the truth.

00:11:07.740 Here's Lanny talking about truth to power.

00:11:10.020 But in one very important respect, Michael is relieved.

00:11:15.640 He's a good man with a good heart that I've discovered.

00:11:18.560 But he's relieved and liberated is the word I would say to your audience.

00:11:22.980 Because now he has no shadow hanging over him.

00:11:26.980 The uncertainty is gone.

00:11:28.860 He has stepped up to the line and he has admitted what he did wrong.

00:11:32.560 But he is now liberated to tell the truth, everything, about Donald Trump that he knows.

00:11:39.900 That led him to approach someone like me, who he knows politically doesn't share anything with President Trump.

00:11:46.320 And from this point on, you're going to see liberated Michael Cohen speaking truth to power.

00:11:53.340 He's relieved and liberated.

00:11:56.980 Is that right?

00:11:57.720 We are living in such an Orwellian time.

00:12:00.460 He's relieved and liberated.

00:12:01.920 Of course not.

00:12:03.120 He's terrified for his life.

00:12:05.320 He's terrified for his property and for his family and his career and his possessions.

00:12:09.460 And he's not speaking truth to power.

00:12:11.460 The power is this bureaucracy.

00:12:14.180 The power is this constant machine and campaign to undo the 2016 election.

00:12:20.460 And he got crushed by them.

00:12:21.860 Speaking truth to power, are you kidding me?

00:12:23.680 He got crushed by the politicized arm of the federal government.

00:12:26.800 That's what he's speaking.

00:12:28.140 He's not liberated at all.

00:12:29.680 He's not liberated.

00:12:31.380 He's now, they're hostage basically.

00:12:35.300 And by the way, this whole thing.

00:12:37.540 So we've got two stories now.

00:12:39.420 Michael Cohen is saying, according to Lanny Davis,

00:12:42.340 Michael Cohen is saying, you know,

00:12:45.400 Michael realizes that Trump is a danger to the country.

00:12:49.940 He's finally realized he's ready.

00:12:52.120 It's his patriotic duty to come out and stop the Trump presidency.

00:12:55.880 Even though for the last two years he said that Trump is great.

00:12:58.660 And he basically watched over the Trump ascendance.

00:13:01.560 So that's the one story.

00:13:02.660 And then the other story is,

00:13:04.080 Michael Cohen is worried about the feds crushing his family.

00:13:08.280 You can't have both.

00:13:09.860 You can't have both of those stories.

00:13:11.020 Those are not, you cannot hold them simultaneously.

00:13:13.520 Either he's realized, oh, shucks, it doesn't matter what happens to me or my family.

00:13:18.600 I'm going to speak truth to power and stop the Trump presidency.

00:13:21.300 Or you realize that the Trump presidency, which you helped to facilitate,

00:13:25.600 is now coming under attack by even greater powers than the president.

00:13:29.960 And you want to save yourself and your family from being crushed.

00:13:32.700 It's obviously the latter.

00:13:34.700 So he doesn't think that he's getting a pardon, I guess.

00:13:37.060 I don't think that Michael Cohen is going to get a pardon.

00:13:40.880 So now he's got to go into the other direction.

00:13:43.400 And this question of pardons is kind of interesting because it shows you the differing behavior of Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen.

00:13:51.460 But listen to Lanny Davis spin this stuff about a presidential pardon.

00:13:55.940 Here he is on NPR.

00:13:56.620 What conversations, if any, has your client had with the president or his legal team or have you had on his behalf about a presidential pardon?

00:14:05.640 I don't know.

00:14:07.960 I know that Mr. Cohen would never accept a pardon from a man that he considers to be both corrupt and a dangerous person in the Oval Office.

00:14:18.300 And he has flatly authorized me to say under no circumstances would he accept a pardon from Mr. Trump,

00:14:25.980 who uses the pardon power in a way that no president in American history has ever used a pardon to relieve people of guilt who committed crimes,

00:14:38.000 who are political cronies of his, like the sheriff in Arizona who defied a court order,

00:14:43.860 was clearly guilty and was given a pardon.

00:14:47.300 And Lanny, for those of you, I'm sorry, for those of you who aren't watching,

00:14:53.300 I just had to pick my jaw up off the floor for what Lanny Davis is saying.

00:14:56.660 And for those of you, particularly the millennial viewers who are not familiar with Lanny Davis,

00:15:01.440 Lanny Davis was the special counsel and advisor to Bill Clinton,

00:15:05.640 the president who more than anybody, maybe in American history, abused his pardon power.

00:15:10.740 On just one day, January 20th, 2001, Bill Clinton pardoned 140 people in his final hours.

00:15:18.480 Why did he pardon them? Because he suddenly woke up to their innocence, to their great virtue?

00:15:22.940 No, it was political payback for cronies. That's what he did.

00:15:26.340 It's unbelievable. And to have Lanny Davis there with a straight face, just sitting there with NPR,

00:15:31.560 yeah, it's the presidential pardon power. And you know, Michael Cohen would never accept a presidential pardon.

00:15:37.040 I don't think that's a worry. I don't think he needs to worry about that presidential pardon, buddy.

00:15:41.420 He would never accept, by the way, he would accept it. Just spoiler alert, he would accept a presidential pardon.

00:15:46.960 Unbelievable. And this is, this gets to the Clinton of all of this.

00:15:50.360 The fact that you have Lanny Davis here, Lanny Davis, the special counsel, the spokesman for Bill Clinton,

00:15:56.060 during his sex scandal, during those threats of impeachment, during that abuse of presidential pardons,

00:16:02.280 is this beautiful, divine, providential moment where we're seeing basically 1998 in reverse.

00:16:11.140 But we're going to talk about why that could be a very, very good thing for President Trump and for the Republicans,

00:16:15.760 the lessons to be learned there.

00:16:16.680 Before we get to the political ramifications, before we get to whether this is the end of the Trump presidency,

00:16:23.140 or if it's only the beginning, who knows, I want to bring on a special guest who is here all the way from Colorado.

00:16:30.420 We have Jack Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cake Shop.

00:16:35.020 And Jack Phillips, we have your attorney, Jim Campbell, who's here as well.

00:16:39.100 And the reason that you have an attorney, because not all cake shop owners and bakers have to retain attorneys

00:16:44.580 for years and years on end, is because the left and the coercive power of the state has tried to ruin your life.

00:16:53.800 Why is that?

00:16:55.640 Well, it happened on this time, on the very day that the United States Supreme Court granted our case to hear it.

00:17:03.880 That's right. Just for some background on this, you said that you didn't want to participate in a gay wedding ceremony

00:17:10.420 by constructing a cake for it.

00:17:13.600 And so this case, the Colorado Civil Rights Commission tries to crush you.

00:17:18.600 They're fighting. You fight it all the way up.

00:17:20.480 You actually stand pretty firm, despite it hurting your business, despite all of this.

00:17:24.660 It goes to the Supreme Court.

00:17:25.760 The Supreme Court agrees to hear your case, and then another case comes up.

00:17:29.320 What is this second issue?

00:17:31.320 So the very day that the Supreme Court agreed to hear our case, we got a phone call from a lawyer in Colorado

00:17:37.120 asking me to create a custom cake that was pink on the inside and blue on the outside to celebrate a gender transition.

00:17:44.740 And while we told this customer we'd be glad to create any other thing that we normally do or sell anything else in the shop,

00:17:51.260 that was just a message with a cake that we couldn't create.

00:17:55.560 And so they said, well, we're going to sue you out of existence.

00:17:58.120 So they filed a complaint with the Colorado Civil Rights Commission.

00:18:00.620 I have to ask, these two cases bring up a real question.

00:18:05.060 Are you the only baker in the state of Colorado?

00:18:07.560 How come everybody is coming to you to bake their cakes that you don't agree with,

00:18:13.820 you don't want to participate in the ceremony because of your religious views?

00:18:16.420 Right. No, there's another bakery actually in the parking lot across this way,

00:18:21.180 and another really fine cake shop just across the street that way.

00:18:24.140 So three of them within a block.

00:18:26.260 You've got to be kidding me.

00:18:27.340 I actually didn't know that aspect.

00:18:29.380 There are multiple cakes, and presumably they would participate in a gay marriage ceremony or whatever.

00:18:36.260 One of them I know advertises in gay magazines and gay media.

00:18:40.860 So they're...

00:18:42.280 Man, you must make the best cakes in the world.

00:18:44.300 I have no doubt that you do.

00:18:45.460 Yeah.

00:18:45.580 There is a cake shop, a block or two away from you, that advertises in gay media,

00:18:52.760 and yet the people who want you to participate in a gay wedding or to participate in a gender celebration, whatever,

00:19:02.640 they go to you instead.

00:19:03.800 Why is that?

00:19:04.580 Why are they going to you?

00:19:05.460 I believe that it's targeting that the state of Colorado, they know that the state of Colorado will back them up.

00:19:13.460 They're doubling down on us and trying to come after us again.

00:19:16.360 This is the strangest thing.

00:19:17.680 I don't really understand this because I've...

00:19:20.200 One thing I've noticed is they never go to Muslim bakers.

00:19:22.960 You never notice that?

00:19:23.960 They don't go to Muslim bakers. 1.00

00:19:25.120 They don't go to Orthodox Jewish bakers.

00:19:28.040 They go to Christian bakers. 0.99

00:19:29.700 And there seems to be this aura of anti-Christianity in the popular culture.

00:19:35.560 When did that start?

00:19:36.940 I mean, where does that come from?

00:19:38.140 And why is it reaching such a fever pitch?

00:19:41.440 I don't know.

00:19:42.160 But in my case, with the first case that went to the Calral, to the United States Supreme Court,

00:19:47.940 the Supreme Court told the Civil Rights Commission that they were being hostile to my faith.

00:19:53.040 That's right.

00:19:53.260 They can't do that.

00:19:54.120 And that they were not treating me equal with other bakers who had gone through the same thing with different cases.

00:20:02.160 Well, it's one.

00:20:02.720 You have to sort of be happy that the state of Colorado was so sloppy in all of this.

00:20:07.920 I mean, they made their anti-Christian bias so apparent that the Supreme Court couldn't deny it.

00:20:13.500 They said this is so clear that you have this.

00:20:15.640 And I have to tell you, I've seen this in the popular media.

00:20:18.280 I've read headlines about your case.

00:20:19.720 Many of the headlines, if not most of them, are lying about the basic facts of your case.

00:20:26.480 They're saying that you refuse to serve gay customers.

00:20:30.200 I deal with that every day. 0.92

00:20:31.360 Are you the guy who turned away the gay couple?

00:20:33.280 No.

00:20:33.700 I welcome, I serve everybody who comes to my shop.

00:20:36.040 Even the two men who sued me that time and the person who's suing me this time.

00:20:39.740 I just don't create every cake with every message that people ask me to create.

00:20:43.600 Which makes perfect sense.

00:20:45.060 Anybody who's in any sort of creative field has to have creative agency over what they do.

00:20:50.120 People don't get to come in here and tell me what I'm going to do my show on and tell me what I'm going to say.

00:20:54.220 They don't get to tell dancers what sort of dance they have to do.

00:20:57.160 And if they don't do the dance, they're going to get sued out of existence.

00:21:00.060 You don't tell an actor you have to do this role or you're going to get sued out of existence.

00:21:04.080 But I see this, I saw this on Vox.com, which, you know, anytime you see a headline on Vox.com, just assume the opposite.

00:21:12.200 Just assume whatever the opposite is.

00:21:14.040 And it said that first you turned away gay customers, now you're turning away transgender customers.

00:21:22.260 Again, I welcome everybody who comes to my shop.

00:21:24.460 I don't care what their sexual orientation is or their gender identity is.

00:21:28.660 It's the message of the cake that they asked me to create.

00:21:30.720 The thing I think that's most admirable about your entire saga, which has now gone on, what, six years or something?

00:21:37.340 Over six years now. 0.99

00:21:38.580 Is your cojones, for lack of a better word. 0.99

00:21:42.040 Pardon my Spanish. 0.99

00:21:43.740 Pardon my French Spanish. 0.99

00:21:45.340 But a lot of people, I think, would have just laid down.

00:21:48.340 They would have said, I don't want to spend years of my life fighting this.

00:21:51.800 I bake cakes.

00:21:53.620 I'm a small business owner.

00:21:54.820 I don't want to take this to the Supreme Court.

00:21:57.020 You've stood firm.

00:21:58.080 Despite national and international media pressure trying to shut you down, how have you managed to do that?

00:22:06.120 My faith is strong.

00:22:08.300 And this time, we're forced to file a lawsuit against the state of Colorado, hoping that that will deter them coming after me for every whim that they choose.

00:22:18.020 You know, I also wonder sometimes, we see the left's tactics.

00:22:23.280 They're so tyrannical.

00:22:25.420 They're so going, they're targeting you.

00:22:27.260 They're saying, no, I'm not going to go to that bakery a block away.

00:22:29.640 I'm going to go to you and force you to violate your conscience.

00:22:32.640 I'm going to make you do it and you're going to do it.

00:22:34.540 The right doesn't do that.

00:22:35.920 You don't see an evangelical Christian walking into a gay bakery and saying, I want you to bake me a cake that says marriage is a solemn union between a man and a woman. 0.82

00:22:46.480 We never see that.

00:22:48.100 Should the right start adopting those tactics?

00:22:49.920 I mean, what is it about the political left at this moment where they just demand that you toe that line?

00:22:56.860 I don't know.

00:22:58.060 We're not going to toe the line.

00:22:59.680 That's why we're forced into this lawsuit and why we'll do the best that we can to uphold our rights.

00:23:04.880 And it's so, I just love the dignity of that too, which is, I think they want to make you out on, in media as being this, as a Nazi basically.

00:23:14.540 I mean, you know, everyone who's slightly to the right of Vladimir Lenin now is a Nazi. 0.59

00:23:19.280 That's what they all say.

00:23:20.520 And, and, but you're just so simply spoken about, these are, these are my views.

00:23:26.480 This is my faith.

00:23:27.340 I'm not going to violate it.

00:23:28.320 This is what I do.

00:23:29.020 And I'm not going to lay down for you.

00:23:31.100 Did you see this, this, I know, I know you didn't because nobody watches the Jimmy Kimmel show, but maybe you saw a clip of it afterward. 0.80

00:23:37.860 Jimmy Kimmel did a whole segment on you about what a terrible guy you are.

00:23:41.940 I haven't seen it.

00:23:43.140 I heard reference to it, so I really can't comment on it.

00:23:45.700 Well, the, the whole premise of the clip, he's, you know, he's doing his thing, which is to almost tell a joke, but then make a political statement.

00:23:53.800 And then his audience doesn't laugh, but they clap.

00:23:56.000 That's kind of their new cheat. 0.99

00:23:57.640 But, but his whole premise is that you, you hate gay people. 1.00

00:24:01.820 You know, you hate transgender people. 0.99

00:24:03.740 And, and the reason is because you are gay, because you are in a creative profession. 1.00

00:24:09.840 So that makes you gay. 0.98

00:24:11.300 And I'm always amazed by this turn from the lefties, which is, there's, there's nothing more wonderful than gay culture. 0.70

00:24:19.320 We all have to embrace and participate in every aspect and every changing aspect of gay culture. 0.90

00:24:23.940 And if you don't, you're gay. 0.97

00:24:25.520 And that's an insult. 1.00

00:24:26.300 Ha ha ha.

00:24:26.820 That's an insult.

00:24:27.440 It doesn't, it seems so contradictory.

00:24:30.200 Do you, do you have hope for religious freedom in America moving forward?

00:24:35.720 You got this win at the court.

00:24:37.100 What do you think 10, 20 years down the line?

00:24:39.280 The Supreme Court ruled, like I said, that the commission was hostile to my faith.

00:24:44.140 And they can't do that.

00:24:44.860 The United States Supreme Court upheld religious freedom, I think, really clearly on this.

00:24:49.320 And so I have a lot of hope for it.

00:24:51.180 A lot of support, people coming in.

00:24:53.520 And yeah, it gives me hope for that.

00:24:55.880 And, because your case gives me hope too.

00:24:57.960 Okay.

00:24:59.200 You've become a sort of central figure in these elections.

00:25:02.560 Probably unwittingly.

00:25:03.740 It's not like you're running for federal office or something.

00:25:06.120 But you've demonstrated the power of the courts.

00:25:09.120 And how much the left has perverted the courts over so many years.

00:25:14.900 And you've made these federal judgeships a major issue in these elections.

00:25:18.480 Do you, do you think that that will be a major issue in 2018, 2020?

00:25:25.860 I think it should be.

00:25:27.520 The courts is, there's a lot of power in the courts.

00:25:30.300 And I'm glad to see that they ruled correctly this time.

00:25:33.060 Yeah.

00:25:33.460 And we'll go from there.

00:25:35.220 Once this is all said and done, you'll have been tied up in court so far six years.

00:25:41.280 And there's no end in sight.

00:25:42.720 They're going to keep going after you.

00:25:44.040 What does your business look like after the left has tried to gut every aspect of it?

00:25:49.940 Well, the commission did require me to start making cakes for same-sex weddings a few years ago.

00:25:57.360 But rather than do that, since I'm in the wedding business, we had to give up our wedding business, which was 40% of our income at the time.

00:26:04.520 So I had 10 employees.

00:26:07.200 It was down to four.

00:26:08.500 Right now with the news, it's crazy and we're really busy.

00:26:11.600 But a year from now, we'll see how that pans out.

00:26:14.120 But they did take away a good deal of our income.

00:26:17.100 It's unbelievable.

00:26:18.040 I mean, it was such a targeting.

00:26:19.260 They say you can't participate in weddings anymore.

00:26:21.520 Sorry.

00:26:23.160 Is there, do you only do local work?

00:26:25.320 How can people support you?

00:26:26.560 I know that, look, I know it myself.

00:26:28.480 I read the headlines and I think, how can I support this guy?

00:26:30.700 How can people go out there and support your legal cause, support your business?

00:26:34.540 You gave me a shirt.

00:26:35.420 I don't have the shirt on.

00:26:36.160 It's the shirt that you're wearing.

00:26:37.400 I can't wait to wear that around L.A.

00:26:38.900 I'm going to get tomatoes thrown at me.

00:26:40.620 But it's such a great statement for a great company.

00:26:44.020 How can people help you out?

00:26:44.960 Well, we have shirts and mugs.

00:26:47.380 And when things calm down, we ship brownies and cookies.

00:26:51.260 That's helpful.

00:26:52.640 But, yeah, prayer for us.

00:26:56.220 Supporting the Alliance Defending Freedom, the attorneys that are representing us,

00:27:00.380 that's always good, too, because they're not just fighting for me.

00:27:02.820 They're fighting for all of us.

00:27:04.140 That's right.

00:27:04.440 And I love ADF.

00:27:05.400 Before I let you guys go, I do want to talk a little bit just about the legal work

00:27:09.200 that you guys have been doing.

00:27:10.900 You do great legal work in defense of religious liberty in many cases,

00:27:15.160 but obviously this one's been going on for six years.

00:27:18.580 What's your view on the future of religious liberty, and why is it so under attack today?

00:27:23.280 Well, we're optimistic.

00:27:24.400 I mean, what we've seen is the recent win in Jack's case.

00:27:27.620 And the recent win in Jack's case made it clear that the government can't be hostile

00:27:30.860 to people of faith.

00:27:32.140 We also won other cases last term that made it clear that the government can't force,

00:27:37.000 for instance, pro-life pregnancy centers to speak messages that are against their conscience.

00:27:41.300 So we think that the court is on a hot streak in protecting not only freedom of speech,

00:27:46.080 but also freedom of religion.

00:27:47.180 And we think that that can only, we're hopeful that will only continue.

00:27:51.100 That's right.

00:27:51.480 Because I think a lot of lefties, I talk to a lot of lefties, I'm from New York, I live

00:27:55.360 in LA, you know, and they legitimately believe that religious freedom is just a euphemism for

00:28:01.320 bigotry and animus.

00:28:02.700 They really, I actually think they earnestly believe that.

00:28:04.720 I don't think that's an excuse.

00:28:05.520 And it's because they don't take religion seriously, and they don't understand that

00:28:08.720 other people do take religion seriously.

00:28:11.780 This court has been terrific on the issue of religious liberty.

00:28:15.500 That's why the left is going after it so badly.

00:28:17.700 It's why they're trying to stop Brett Kavanaugh's nomination.

00:28:22.900 But this case has shown that that's not inevitable.

00:28:26.440 That's not, are there other cases around the country where we can look around and just

00:28:30.560 see like, oh yes, religious freedom is making a comeback?

00:28:33.600 Well, I think one thing, I'd specifically point to the case we just went in Jack's, regarding

00:28:39.620 Jack's decision.

00:28:40.800 What the Colorado agency said there was they compared Jack's beliefs to bigotry.

00:28:47.040 And so that's the exact talking point you just referenced.

00:28:50.100 And when the court looked at it, they said that kind of a statement from a government official,

00:28:54.900 that in and of itself is problematic.

00:28:56.880 So what it's basically done is taken the left's talking point on religious freedom, this

00:29:01.320 religious freedom is just code for bigotry. 1.00

00:29:03.260 And they've said, the government has no business saying that, has no business taking that position,

00:29:07.900 has no business marginalizing people of faith.

00:29:10.320 So I think that's a very important thing to emphasize.

00:29:12.480 That's great.

00:29:12.800 That is a great point.

00:29:14.240 It's always a good political line.

00:29:16.720 It's always helpful politically when you can use your opponent's words to twist them

00:29:20.640 into pretzels.

00:29:21.340 And they're so good at doing it that you couldn't have asked for a better opponent in that way.

00:29:25.920 But it's really wonderful.

00:29:26.800 I really appreciate you guys.

00:29:28.540 And God bless.

00:29:29.180 Good luck.

00:29:29.540 And all the rest.

00:29:30.660 And I hope you keep getting victories because it's not just a victory for Masterpiece Cake

00:29:33.880 Shop.

00:29:34.260 It's a victory for every American who appreciates religious liberty.

00:29:38.600 Thanks so much for being here, guys.

00:29:40.000 I'll let you go.

00:29:40.540 I know you've got important work to talk about.

00:29:43.100 And I've got to talk about the political circus.

00:29:45.100 Before we get to all of this, we're going to talk about the political ramifications of

00:29:50.440 all of the news out today.

00:29:52.860 We're also going to talk about how CNN doesn't have any views.

00:29:56.340 We're going to talk about this Molly Tibbetts case.

00:29:58.120 Why, for example, it's fallen out of the news.

00:30:00.560 Gee, I wonder.

00:30:01.880 And I do want to get to this day in history and actually say a few nice words about Bill

00:30:05.920 Clinton.

00:30:06.620 Before I can do that, I have got to say goodbye to Facebook and YouTube.

00:30:10.880 If you go over to DailyWire.com, thank you.

00:30:13.840 You help us keep the lights on.

00:30:15.120 You keep the leftist tears filling up my cup day by day.

00:30:18.880 You get me.

00:30:19.900 You get the Andrew Klavan Show, the Ben Shapiro Show, ask questions in the mailbag, ask questions

00:30:23.380 in the conversation.

00:30:24.140 Ben Shapiro is coming up next.

00:30:25.460 None of that matters because right now we have the leftist tears tumbler.

00:30:30.580 And when we get Judge Kavanaugh confirmed and when we keep expanding religious liberty throughout

00:30:35.820 this country and when we keep getting to bake the cakes we want to bake and eat the

00:30:39.840 cakes we want to eat and live in this beautiful land of freedom, this is going to fill up,

00:30:44.000 which is good because leftist tears are actually better even than whole milk when you're eating

00:30:48.480 a nice slice of religious freedom cake.

00:30:50.780 Go to DailyWire.com.

00:30:51.880 Get your leftist tears tumbler.

00:30:52.960 We'll be right back.

00:31:03.680 Okay.

00:31:04.220 What are the political ramifications of all of this?

00:31:06.580 You know, we couldn't get away from Michael Cohn and Paul Manafort that easily.

00:31:09.660 What are the political ramifications?

00:31:12.020 Well, it doesn't look great in the short term, does it?

00:31:15.360 Especially if you're watching CNN.

00:31:17.140 You've got a real case now for impeachment.

00:31:19.200 Not that the Democrats needed it.

00:31:20.400 They were running on impeachment anyway long before this.

00:31:22.940 But you've got sort of almost the beginnings of a legal case.

00:31:26.420 They're going to be all focused on this.

00:31:27.880 It's going to drown it out in the media.

00:31:29.740 Let's look at one of the preeminent lefties, one of the most famous lefties in the world for

00:31:34.780 the past many decades and get to see what he thinks about it.

00:31:38.340 Mr. Professor Chomsky, take it away.

00:31:40.520 Take, say, the huge issue of interference in our pristine elections.

00:31:48.580 Did the Russians interfere in our elections?

00:31:51.500 An issue of overwhelming concern in the media.

00:31:55.380 I mean, in most of the world, that's almost a joke.

00:31:59.740 First of all, if you're interested in foreign interference in our elections, whatever the

00:32:06.960 Russians may have done barely counts ways in the balance as compared with what another 1.00

00:32:14.540 state does openly, brazenly, and with enormous support.

00:32:21.580 He's talking about Israel there because he doesn't like Israel very much.

00:32:24.460 But he makes a salient point, which is that throughout the rest of the world, this is

00:32:30.120 considered a joke for some obvious reasons, which is that everybody's always trying to

00:32:35.020 interfere in everybody's elections.

00:32:36.680 And for the other reason, that this issue of Russian alleged interference doesn't really

00:32:43.400 affect our lives at all.

00:32:45.100 Doesn't affect American politics.

00:32:46.560 Doesn't, probably didn't affect the election in any way.

00:32:49.380 In so much as it affected the election, it's because it convinced Americans not to vote for

00:32:53.640 the Democrat because it exposed just how awful the Democrats are.

00:32:58.040 So do people care?

00:33:00.140 Is Professor Chomsky right?

00:33:01.540 Well, he's only right about a few things in this world, but this happens to be one of

00:33:04.720 them.

00:33:05.220 All of the polling shows that nobody cares about this.

00:33:08.600 All of the polling, not just by right-wing firms, but people rank this basically dead last

00:33:13.100 on their questions of public policy and public affairs.

00:33:16.240 Doesn't matter.

00:33:17.560 Consider CNN.

00:33:18.400 CNN covers the Russia non-scandal, I think about 25 hours a day, roughly eight days per

00:33:25.440 week.

00:33:26.280 And year over year, CNN's viewership is down 24% total day, and it's down 23% in prime time

00:33:33.240 year over year, this week over this week last year.

00:33:37.520 Nobody watches this.

00:33:39.440 Actually, and there's some great statistics, the Discovery Channel and the History Channel

00:33:44.340 both do better in prime time than CNN News does, the cable news network, the Clinton news

00:33:48.880 network.

00:33:49.840 Nickelodeon and Investigation Discovery do better all day.

00:33:54.120 Nickelodeon does better all day than the cable news network.

00:33:57.340 So the question then is, could this hurt Trump anyway?

00:34:00.700 Even if we don't care, we don't watch it, the Russia thing is not a big issue.

00:34:05.280 Could it hurt Trump, his administration, politically, legally?

00:34:09.060 Yeah, of course it could.

00:34:10.340 Of course it could.

00:34:11.580 Anything can happen in politics.

00:34:13.240 I had a lot of lefties, some old friends writing to me yesterday, say, ha ha, yes, we're

00:34:19.560 going to take down Trump.

00:34:21.060 This must be a really bad day for you, huh?

00:34:23.460 And I thought there are two scenarios here.

00:34:25.140 There are two ways this turns out.

00:34:26.460 The best case scenario is that President Trump survives this scandal just like he survives

00:34:31.240 every other scandal where they said they're going to get Trump.

00:34:33.680 That's the best case scenario.

00:34:35.080 The absolute worst case scenario is that he is impeached and removed from office, and then

00:34:41.640 we get President Pence.

00:34:42.480 Ha ha ha, ha ha ha, ha ha ha, ha ha, then we're going to get as many cakes as we want.

00:34:47.300 Ha ha ha ha ha, and a lot of religious freedom and a conservative president.

00:34:51.280 That's the worst case scenario.

00:34:53.480 That's a pretty good worst case scenario.

00:34:55.740 And by the way, he's not going to be removed from office.

00:34:58.940 It's virtually impossible that he's removed from office.

00:35:01.460 Certainly in the short term.

00:35:02.660 In the long term, who knows?

00:35:03.540 In the long term, anything could happen.

00:35:05.240 But how would this hurt Trump?

00:35:06.320 Let's look at a few lessons of history.

00:35:09.180 One way to compare this is the John Edwards scandal.

00:35:13.540 Do you remember John Edwards?

00:35:14.640 He's the most just generic, bland Democrat ever to run for office. 0.90

00:35:19.440 I think he's made of like putty or clay.

00:35:21.940 And he's just got that perfectly coiffed hair.

00:35:24.040 And that hair became a big issue in the election because his expensive haircuts were one of the bits of evidence that he was funneling campaign money to pay off a mistress.

00:35:34.340 So he ran for president in 2008.

00:35:38.360 In the case of John Edwards, this came to light finally in 2012.

00:35:42.700 He was brought to trial for it.

00:35:45.180 The case of Edwards was much worse.

00:35:46.760 He spent well over a million dollars funneling money to his mistress to cover all of this up during the campaign.

00:35:54.380 President Trump is accused of funneling a few hundred thousand dollars, which I think President Trump like, that's what he pays for breakfast.

00:36:01.060 I think he goes down to Trump Tower and then throws a few hundred thousand dollars down there.

00:36:04.460 So as a matter of dollars, dollars and cents, Edwards was worse.

00:36:08.920 Edwards got indicted in that case on six felony counts.

00:36:12.140 And he got off.

00:36:13.600 He completely got off.

00:36:14.600 Indicted on six felony counts, was found not guilty on one count, and a mistrial was declared on all of the others.

00:36:21.080 So even Edwards got off.

00:36:23.420 It is much, much harder to get the sitting president of the United States than it is to get an ex-senator.

00:36:31.180 It's much harder.

00:36:31.880 And even John Edwards, one of the least sympathetic figures in American politics, even that guy got off on every count.

00:36:38.900 On every single count.

00:36:40.100 Years after he was in office and he was just a lowly senator.

00:36:42.720 Now, how does Donald Trump, how does this really affect him?

00:36:47.260 The Democrats are going to run on impeachment.

00:36:48.880 Let's say that the Democrats win the House, which historically speaking, they should win the House.

00:36:54.700 But because everything is going very, very well because the Trump administration has governed in a terrific manner.

00:37:01.760 If they do win the House, then they need a simple majority to impeach.

00:37:06.300 And maybe they'll do that.

00:37:07.540 Although you kind of wonder, some of those red state Democrats, they might not be so eager to impeach.

00:37:11.720 But they're saying that they're eager to impeach and let's say they do it.

00:37:14.600 When you get to the Senate, you need 67 votes to convict in the Senate.

00:37:19.920 Is that going to happen?

00:37:21.000 Is anybody predicting that the Democrats are going to win 67 seats in the Senate?

00:37:26.440 Is anybody really predicting that the Democrats are going to win the Senate?

00:37:29.420 I don't know.

00:37:29.760 I suppose it's possible, but they're not going to win 67 seats.

00:37:34.180 It sure doesn't look like it.

00:37:35.540 So at least not in 2018.

00:37:37.860 So you need 67 to convict.

00:37:39.660 Is that going to happen?

00:37:40.860 Probably not.

00:37:41.900 So here's where the good news comes in.

00:37:44.620 All of this might redound to President Trump's benefit.

00:37:48.240 I know this seems insane.

00:37:50.380 That now you've got Cohen, you've got the drama, you've got Cohen pleads guilty and Manafort,

00:37:55.440 and drama, drama.

00:37:57.780 Okay.

00:37:58.420 Well, I'm old enough to remember 1998.

00:38:01.100 I'm old enough to remember politics in the 90s.

00:38:03.760 I was born in 1990.

00:38:05.240 And yet I was such a political fiend as a five-year-old.

00:38:10.720 I was paying attention to all of these things.

00:38:12.420 I was.

00:38:13.080 I remember George H.W. Bush.

00:38:15.680 I remember, you know, my grandpa would teach me, read my lips, no new taxes, and then Bush

00:38:20.600 raised taxes, of course.

00:38:21.900 And I remember campaigning in my first-rate classroom for Bob Dole.

00:38:25.660 I remember clearly all of the Clinton scandals, all of the Clinton impeachment.

00:38:30.040 I really couldn't stand Bill Clinton, and neither could the entire Republican Party.

00:38:35.920 But there are so many lessons to get out of that Clinton scandal, because you've got

00:38:39.740 to remember, there were investigations going back to 94, 96, 98.

00:38:43.680 They never got Clinton.

00:38:45.540 They never got Clinton.

00:38:46.580 It seemed like a little bit of an overreach.

00:38:48.580 I do want to get to that in a second.

00:38:51.480 I want to get to this day in history, what we can learn from him.

00:38:54.620 Before that, though, let's just clear up a little bit of news, because this is too much

00:38:58.600 not to talk about.

00:39:01.060 Have you heard about Molly Tibbetts?

00:39:02.900 Molly Tibbetts, that poor girl who, college student, she went missing. 0.78

00:39:07.760 They just found her body.

00:39:09.740 This was major news for weeks and weeks.

00:39:13.100 It was when they found this poor girl's body, it was the biggest news story on Google News,

00:39:19.160 Apple News, and then they found out who the killer was.

00:39:24.060 They thought he's the killer, a boyfriend, or a this, or a local this, or that.

00:39:27.660 They found out the killer is an illegal alien.

00:39:31.640 He was the guy who led them to the body, and he's now the main suspect.

00:39:37.520 This is how cable news reacted.

00:39:38.940 The Republican Party is actually not working on behalf of the American people.

00:39:43.680 They are working on behalf of Donald Trump, and he's been able to bully them into their

00:39:46.660 silence, and I don't think that today changes much, unfortunately.

00:39:49.780 I'm sure we'll hear what he has to say about this at his rally, but Fox News is talking

00:39:54.340 about, you know, a girl in Iowa and not this, right?

00:39:57.780 And tomorrow morning, we know he'll wake up and tweet and sort of, you know, besmirch the

00:40:01.740 reputation of Michael Cohen and all the people around him.

00:40:04.560 A girl in Iowa.

00:40:05.760 A girl in Iowa.

00:40:06.660 And Fox News, right, they're the only ones talking about Molly Tibbetts.

00:40:09.400 Oh no, it was every single news agency in the country, and internationally, was talking

00:40:14.580 about this missing girl, was talking about Molly Tibbetts.

00:40:16.620 All of these channels, NBC, CBS, the Associated Press, Google News, Apple News, everybody was

00:40:21.840 talking about it until it became clear that the killer is an illegal alien.

00:40:26.260 And then the only person talking about it was Fox News.

00:40:29.360 Then the only outlet talking about it was Fox News.

00:40:32.120 So she's trying to use this as an example of Fox News being dishonest. 0.84

00:40:35.300 Fox News is the only honest cable news network, is the only honest one of the whole bunch.

00:40:40.980 Just some girl in Iowa. 0.90

00:40:42.440 Why were you talking about her before?

00:40:44.700 Oh, because it's a compelling story and this poor girl got murdered, but now it cuts against

00:40:49.340 your political narrative because an illegal alien is the one who did it.

00:40:52.920 Look, CBS ran the headline and said, GOP seizing Molly Tibbetts' murder as political issue. 0.70

00:40:58.940 We're not seizing it as a political issue.

00:41:00.780 It's been a major news story for a long time now.

00:41:04.540 We're just following it to its logical conclusion and you're all abandoning it as a political

00:41:09.000 issue.

00:41:09.980 The Democrats are always projecting.

00:41:12.740 They found out it's a Christian Bahina Rivera, 24-year-old illegal alien.

00:41:17.200 The CNN coverage this morning of the killer, they found the killer, they bring him in.

00:41:22.960 CNN coverage doesn't even acknowledge that he's an illegal alien.

00:41:26.700 Listen to Chief Liawatha being asked about this on CNN, on the Clinton News Network.

00:41:32.600 Listen to how she spins it.

00:41:34.460 I want to get one last question in here because it is a story, a very important story in the

00:41:38.240 news.

00:41:38.440 It has to do with Molly Tibbetts, the young woman in Iowa who was murdered.

00:41:42.120 Her body believed to be found yesterday.

00:41:45.240 A person has been charged with that this person is an undocumented immigrant.

00:41:49.780 Mike Pence and the president have suggested the immigration laws need to be stronger so that

00:41:54.600 people like this man who was accused of this murder were not in the country.

00:41:58.440 Your reaction?

00:41:59.380 You know, I'm so sorry for the family here and I know this is hard, not only for the family

00:42:04.860 but for the people in her community, the people throughout Iowa.

00:42:09.860 But one of the things we have to remember is we need an immigration system that is effective,

00:42:15.380 that focuses on where real problems are.

00:42:18.380 Last month, I went down to the border and I saw where children had been taken away from

00:42:25.480 We've heard enough from Liawatha. 1.00

00:42:26.780 Did you catch that in there?

00:42:28.260 You might have missed it because she's gotten really good at hiding it.

00:42:30.840 She said, oh, this must be so hard.

00:42:32.580 Oh, this must be really tough for the family.

00:42:34.840 Oh, my heart goes out to the family.

00:42:36.480 But, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. 0.96

00:42:37.980 She actually shortened her butt because she didn't want us to hear it. 1.00

00:42:42.160 But butts negate sentences in politics. 0.99

00:42:45.120 That's how politics works.

00:42:46.080 You say, oh, I, look, I really, really don't want to raise your taxes.

00:42:50.240 I really, look, raising taxes is terrible.

00:42:52.500 I don't want to raise taxes.

00:42:53.840 But we're going to raise your taxes a lot.

00:42:55.760 Look, I, you, I know you want to keep your doctor.

00:42:58.140 You really want to, but you're, you'll totally get to keep your doctor.

00:43:01.240 But, no, you won't.

00:43:03.500 It's an outrage.

00:43:04.960 It's an outrage.

00:43:05.880 This, this woman, Liawatha, goes out on there. 0.97

00:43:08.380 She's got her talking points.

00:43:10.020 She wants to say, yeah, it's really terrible that this illegal alien killed this girl. 0.99

00:43:13.580 But we shouldn't have any immigration reform.

00:43:17.460 Is that, she's saying we need immigration reform.

00:43:19.120 No, you don't want it.

00:43:19.840 We're trying to reform immigration.

00:43:21.180 We want to enforce the laws and get people out of the country who shouldn't be in the country. 1.00

00:43:24.860 Get criminal aliens out of the country. 1.00

00:43:27.120 Liz Warren doesn't want any of that. 1.00

00:43:28.500 She's campaigning against that pretty vociferously.

00:43:30.720 But this is a real issue.

00:43:31.780 I, I think people like Liz Warren, like Liawatha, they don't realize that, like, illegal alien 1.00

00:43:38.140 crime has a real effect on people.

00:43:40.120 And in many states, illegal aliens are much, much more likely to commit crimes, to be members 0.99

00:43:45.500 of gangs, to bring drugs and crime over.

00:43:47.560 President Trump was exactly right when he pointed that out.

00:43:49.840 And I think she just denies it because she doesn't see it.

00:43:53.000 She doesn't see even the effect on the welfare system.

00:43:55.820 Immigrant-led households, legal and illegal, and certainly illegal aliens, access public services.

00:44:01.780 They can access public services.

00:44:03.060 Immigrant-led households are much more likely to be on welfare, some form of welfare.

00:44:09.040 And we'll talk about welfare with regard to President Clinton and President Trump in a second.

00:44:14.040 They're, they're more likely to be on it.

00:44:15.360 She doesn't, she doesn't matter to Liz Warren.

00:44:17.840 Who cares?

00:44:18.440 Liz Warren's a rich Native American lady, you know. 1.00

00:44:20.860 She's a rich, white Native American lady. 1.00

00:44:24.520 And so it doesn't affect her.

00:44:25.740 But it does affect people who pay taxes.

00:44:28.920 It does affect people who are, you know, who are relying on smaller amounts of income,

00:44:35.420 who have lower margins than Liz Warren, who care about the future fiscal solvency of the country. 1.00

00:44:41.340 Liz Warren is a lady of a certain age. 1.00

00:44:44.140 And more young, younger generations are going to have to deal with fiscal insolvency.

00:44:49.560 We're going to have to deal with the entitlement state.

00:44:51.220 These things have effects that she isn't noticing.

00:44:53.260 And they just spin it and spin it.

00:44:55.380 Who cares if it works in reality?

00:44:57.360 Does it work in practice?

00:44:58.460 Does it work in, or does it work in theory, rather?

00:45:00.700 That's what they're all saying. 0.97

00:45:02.020 And it's, it's ridiculous.

00:45:03.160 It won't, it won't serve them well in the 2018 or 2020 elections.

00:45:07.080 And this brings us to the real election question, which is this day in history.

00:45:10.820 Then I'll let you go.

00:45:11.660 But we do have to finish this up because this is the big takeaway, I think, for Republicans.

00:45:17.100 You know, I agree with Ben's analysis almost entirely on how this looks legally and how this looks politically.

00:45:23.220 But I'm much more hopeful, I think, because, because it worked out very well for Bill Clinton.

00:45:29.880 Because there, it doesn't seem that the threat of this taking down Trump is that high.

00:45:34.960 If you look at Edwards, if you look at Clinton, I get it.

00:45:37.500 There's hypocrisy all around, but I don't think they can get him.

00:45:40.820 1996, on this day in history, providential perhaps,

00:45:44.140 Bill Clinton signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act.

00:45:49.100 This is after he campaigned on and on and on.

00:45:50.940 He said, we must end welfare as we have come to know it.

00:45:54.120 Milwaukee.

00:45:55.060 This was the, you know, he was constantly repeating this.

00:45:57.740 It drove a number of his Democrat allies nuts.

00:46:01.020 We must end welfare as we have come to know it.

00:46:03.300 And the President Clinton's welfare reform was an excellent law and it worked.

00:46:07.640 It kills me to compliment the Clintons, but this was really good.

00:46:10.780 It made immigrants ineligible for welfare for five years.

00:46:13.680 It posed a lifetime ban on food stamps for drug felons.

00:46:18.420 It reformed the welfare system.

00:46:20.460 It got people off the rolls.

00:46:21.480 The effect of this was it saved the federal government a lot of money and the caseload fell by 60%.

00:46:26.360 60% of people got off of welfare because of welfare reform.

00:46:29.660 Turns out they didn't need it.

00:46:30.900 The economy was doing very well.

00:46:32.320 There are so many similarities between right now and the mid to late 90s that it's one of these moments where you kind of wonder if the good Lord is like, you know, sometimes the good Lord whispers to us, Michael, Michael, pay attention. 1.00

00:46:49.280 And then other times he's like, you stupid idiots. 1.00

00:46:51.160 Why aren't you paying attention? 1.00

00:46:52.200 You know, he's smacking us in the face.

00:46:53.740 I think this might be one of them.

00:46:54.940 I think Lanny Davis is the key to that.

00:46:57.120 You know, first of all, this is about Clintons because it's trying to undo the 2016 election where the Clintons lost.

00:47:02.840 And then you've got the Clintons lawyer now on exactly the other side, arguing exactly the other things.

00:47:08.160 What does this tell us?

00:47:10.600 In 1994, you had the investigations beginning into Bill Clinton's sexual degeneracy.

00:47:18.220 So you had him, you know, they're investigating the Paula Jones sexual harassment.

00:47:22.880 Then all of a sudden you've got investigations over Monica Lewinsky.

00:47:27.980 Special counsel is appointed.

00:47:29.520 Ken Starr, independent counsel rather.

00:47:31.600 It becomes this wide ranging investigation.

00:47:34.240 It's covering Travelgate.

00:47:35.600 It's covering Whitewater.

00:47:36.700 It's covering the sex stuff.

00:47:38.060 It's covering all of these things.

00:47:39.500 A lot of similarities to how wide ranging other special counsel investigations can be.

00:47:44.460 Then you had the president lying.

00:47:47.520 Now there's an allegation that President Trump has lied.

00:47:50.260 But at least he hasn't lied under oath.

00:47:52.060 Bill Clinton, it was much worse because he lied under oath.

00:47:55.580 And he still got off.

00:47:57.320 Bill Clinton still got off, even lying under oath.

00:47:59.400 Because it was a step too far.

00:48:01.040 The American people didn't want President Clinton impeached.

00:48:04.480 What's the evidence of that?

00:48:05.480 Well, in the 1998 election, when impeachment is hot on the table, it's underway, the investigations are going on.

00:48:13.580 Newt Gingrich was positive that this was going to get the GOP 30 seats in the House.

00:48:20.300 What happened?

00:48:21.260 The GOP lost seats in the House and the Senate.

00:48:23.300 Gingrich had to resign.

00:48:24.300 He was so shocked and ashamed that it had exactly the negative effect.

00:48:30.120 In 2000, same thing.

00:48:32.160 Gingrich, or rather, the GOP lost seats in both the House and the Senate.

00:48:36.680 We eked out the election down in Florida.

00:48:38.800 Thank you to the hanging chads.

00:48:40.020 But we lost seats in the House and the Senate elections.

00:48:44.780 It hurt Bill Clinton legally in the headlines or whatever.

00:48:48.700 But it helped him politically in the long run.

00:48:50.500 Because people don't want the President impeached.

00:48:53.680 With all of this drama.

00:48:55.180 People say, Donald Trump, stop tweeting.

00:48:57.380 Stop creating drama.

00:48:58.420 Stop creating drama.

00:48:59.480 The whole reason we elected the guy is for drama.

00:49:02.300 Are you not entertained?

00:49:03.380 Is this not why you were here?

00:49:05.100 We elected this guy for drama.

00:49:07.400 Because, to serve policy purposes, by the way.

00:49:10.600 Because when people get along, go along to get along, and they're really nice, things don't get done.

00:49:14.600 When people are dramatic, things get done.

00:49:16.300 And we've seen a lot of great stuff come out of this presidency.

00:49:18.940 The drama, I think, is helpful here.

00:49:21.180 Because when people look at this, are they looking at it and saying,

00:49:24.340 Michael Cohen and this fraud and this and he talked to him and da-ba-da-ba-da?

00:49:27.960 No.

00:49:28.940 What they're saying, and all of the public policy, or all of the public polling shows this,

00:49:33.160 is, we don't care about Russia.

00:49:35.320 Stop.

00:49:35.580 Why are you talking about Russia?

00:49:37.020 What is Bob Mueller doing? 0.99

00:49:38.420 Why is, oh, Trump had sex with porn stars? 0.99

00:49:41.180 Yeah, he's bragged about that. 1.00

00:49:42.540 Of course he had sex with porn stars. 0.99

00:49:45.080 The economy is doing well. 0.98

00:49:46.600 We have peace abroad.

00:49:47.660 We have families united in Korea.

00:49:49.520 We have hostages coming back from Korea. 0.77

00:49:51.600 We've got our allies pitching into NATO.

00:49:53.480 We've got better trade deals being negotiated.

00:49:55.620 We have record high employment, record low joblessness.

00:50:00.120 The economy is doing better than ever. 0.87

00:50:01.920 Why the hell are you talking to me about Russia and porn stars? 0.96

00:50:07.160 What are you doing? 0.99

00:50:08.080 I think that is what people are seeing.

00:50:10.340 And I think there was a similar effect in the 90s.

00:50:14.300 Republicans got it so wrong.

00:50:17.240 The evidence of that is the polls.

00:50:19.040 They were certain this would help them.

00:50:20.680 They were certain it was going to clinch elections for them.

00:50:22.940 And they lost.

00:50:24.300 They lost elections.

00:50:26.780 Looks very similar to today.

00:50:28.360 The Democrats are certain they've got him.

00:50:31.000 This is it.

00:50:32.000 Oh, baby.

00:50:32.880 House, here we come.

00:50:34.120 Senate, here we come.

00:50:35.220 2020, here we come.

00:50:37.460 We've got the same players.

00:50:38.860 We've got the same country.

00:50:39.720 We've got the same people.

00:50:42.100 Will Donald Trump survive?

00:50:43.660 You know, he's a fighter.

00:50:44.660 He's more of a political fighter than a lot of politicians we've seen recently.

00:50:48.860 And if history is showing us anything, if past is precedent here, I would put my money on Donald Trump.

00:50:57.460 Worst case scenario, we get President Pence.

00:50:59.120 Not the worst thing in the world.

00:51:00.140 But I would put my money on President Trump.

00:51:01.800 I think there's a lot to hope for.

00:51:03.120 They're going to make this all about Michael Cohen.

00:51:04.840 They're going to make this all about Paul Manafort.

00:51:06.760 But I think it is a lot of noise.

00:51:08.840 It's going to be kind of painful.

00:51:10.220 It's going to be kind of awkward.

00:51:11.500 It's going to be legally troublesome.

00:51:12.920 It's going to be politically worrisome.

00:51:14.660 But if I had to put money down, I would still put money down on us surviving this.

00:51:19.800 Thank you, President Clinton.

00:51:21.120 All right, that's our show.

00:51:22.440 I've got to get out of here.

00:51:23.380 I'm sure we'll have another 50,000 news stories that we have to cover today.

00:51:26.620 So we'll probably go late tomorrow, too.

00:51:28.000 In the meantime, I'm Michael Knowles.

00:51:29.280 This is The Michael Knowles Show.

00:51:30.380 I'll see you tomorrow.

00:51:44.660 The Michael Knowles Show is a Daily Wire Forward Publishing production.

00:51:58.220 Copyright Forward Publishing 2018.

00:52:14.660 Did you know that over 85% of grass-fed beef sold in U.S. grocery stores is imported?

00:52:34.760 That's why I buy all my meat from GoodRanchers.com instead.

00:52:38.460 Good Ranchers products are 100% born, raised, and harvested right here in the USA from local family farms.

00:52:43.800 Plus, there's no antibiotics ever, no added hormones, and no seed oils.

00:52:48.380 Just one simple ingredient.

00:52:49.920 That's meat.

00:52:50.840 Best of all, Good Ranchers delivers straight to your door for added convenience.

00:52:54.400 So lock in a secure supply of American meat today.

00:52:56.940 Subscribe now at GoodRanchers.com and get free meat for life and $40 off with code DAILYWIRE.

00:53:02.000 That's $40 off and free meat for life with code DAILYWIRE.

00:53:05.340 Good Ranchers.

00:53:06.080 American meat delivered.

The Michael Knowles Show - August 22, 2018

Ep. 205 - Are You Not Entertained？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript