The Michael Knowles Show - Ep. 350 - The SAT Now Tests For Victimhood

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00:00:27.260 The college board has announced that its revised SAT test will now give students a victimhood score.

00:00:34.900 We will examine how grievance became the left's most prized currency

00:00:38.320 and why the new SAT is bad news for everybody.

00:00:40.980 Then, a 23rd confirmed candidate enters the 2020 Democrat race for president,

00:00:46.900 and this one may be the worst of them all.

00:00:49.320 Then, I will respond to abortion law criticisms from right-wingers.

00:00:53.860 Some have been directed at me personally.

00:00:55.640 And finally, the mailbag.

00:00:57.220 I'm Michael Knowles, and this is The Michael Knowles Show.

00:01:06.000 So much to get to today.

00:01:08.380 Obviously, we've been covering abortion all week because of these laws. 0.98

00:01:11.420 There are now more laws.

00:01:13.120 Missouri's state senate has just passed a highly restrictive abortion law, a heartbeat bill.

00:01:18.220 I told you that was going to happen after I met with the Missouri state senators last week.

00:01:22.060 Now it has.

00:01:22.660 Louisiana is about to pass one.

00:01:24.800 The governor of Alabama, who is a woman, just signed that heartbeat law. 1.00

00:01:29.660 It is all happening right now.

00:01:31.620 This is the pro-life moment.

00:01:33.640 As Ernest Hemingway described going bankrupt, things happen gradually and then suddenly.

00:01:39.860 The pro-life movement has been gradual.

00:01:41.580 Now it is suddenly all happening.

00:01:43.380 So we will get to that later.

00:01:44.540 I want to talk about this SAT scandal because the college cheating scandal has gone mainstream.

00:01:51.220 Then we've got to get to Bill de Blasio.

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00:04:14.100 The college cheating scandal is going mainstream.

00:04:17.840 You remember a few months ago, Aunt Becky and a few other celebrities were caught cheating their kids' way into college. 0.92

00:04:24.620 And they would cheat a few different ways.

00:04:26.040 They would cheat by pretending they were student athletes.

00:04:28.060 They would bribe coaches, and they would also cheat on the SAT.

00:04:32.380 They would cheat on the standardized test score to try to get their kids into college.

00:04:36.480 Now, the college board itself, the organization that administers the SAT, is setting up a system to cheat on the SAT.

00:04:45.000 It's the only way to describe it.

00:04:46.260 The big takeaway is here the left is trying to turn victimhood, a grievance, suffering, into an objective, measurable currency.

00:04:58.060 You know they've been talking about victimhood now increasingly for at least the last 10 years in major parts of their conversation and their political advocacy.

00:05:07.540 Now, this is intersectionality going mainstream.

00:05:12.380 And frankly, if this goes through, if this is accepted by colleges and by society broadly, I don't know how we come back from this.

00:05:20.520 I don't know how we take a step back.

00:05:22.180 So the question, I guess, is will it work?

00:05:25.580 And then the question is, what does it actually do?

00:05:28.260 What does it mean?

00:05:28.840 So what the college board is going to do is assign an adversity score to every student to try to capture their socioeconomic background.

00:05:40.900 Ideas like this have been floated for a while.

00:05:43.580 They say don't take into account affirmative action.

00:05:45.720 Don't take into account race or sex or something like that.

00:05:48.460 Take into account socioeconomic status.

00:05:50.560 And the college board now wants to make this part of the SAT.

00:05:53.340 So it will include the crime rate and poverty levels from a student's high school and neighborhood.

00:05:58.940 And it actually will not factor in race.

00:06:01.260 There are already other ways for the colleges to get that sort of information.

00:06:04.600 The students will not be told their scores, but the colleges will see the scores.

00:06:10.760 Also probably not a great idea.

00:06:12.480 There obviously seems to be some room for abuse there.

00:06:15.400 What if a student gets a score that he disagrees with?

00:06:17.780 He has no recourse.

00:06:19.100 He doesn't know what the college board is doing.

00:06:21.500 And the college board won't say how it calculates the score.

00:06:25.640 This is what they say.

00:06:27.520 They say, quote,

00:06:28.460 There are a number of amazing students who have scored less on the SAT but have accomplished more.

00:06:33.920 We can't sit on our hands and ignore the disparities of wealth reflected in the SAT.

00:06:39.020 They've accomplished more.

00:06:40.140 According to whom?

00:06:40.860 I don't know.

00:06:41.620 But they score less on the SAT, and so now it's up to the SAT to fix it.

00:06:46.620 Now, look, they might be right.

00:06:47.760 The students might score lower on the SAT, but actually accomplish more in their lives.

00:06:51.700 Sure.

00:06:52.900 The question is, why would you then factor that into their score on the SAT?

00:06:58.260 This isn't the first time they've tried this.

00:06:59.920 The college board tried this two decades ago.

00:07:02.260 Same kind of thing.

00:07:03.060 Put in a grievance, victimhood measurement.

00:07:05.480 And the colleges roundly rejected that in the 90s.

00:07:09.580 But are they going to reject it now?

00:07:11.460 This is a very different time in 2019 than in 1999.

00:07:14.620 Culture is very different, and we have this obsession with victimhood.

00:07:18.920 So I don't think the colleges are going to stop it now. 0.79

00:07:21.840 The colleges are being run by maniacs.

00:07:23.800 The worst people at these colleges are the administrators. 0.96

00:07:26.780 The administrators who protest Andrew Klavan.

00:07:30.120 The students don't protest Andrew Klavan at Stanford University.

00:07:33.280 The administrators do.

00:07:34.620 It's the administrators who smear me as some kind of bigot because I say men aren't women

00:07:38.860 at the University of Missouri-Kansas City.

00:07:41.240 That was the chancellor of the university.

00:07:42.600 It wasn't the students organizing some massive protest.

00:07:47.160 Some students, but it's the administrators who were doing it.

00:07:50.300 So just a little personal anecdote on this because this really bothers me.

00:07:56.540 People get the question of college admissions so wrong.

00:08:00.540 Elite people just do not understand what it's like to grow up with relatively not that much money.

00:08:06.880 And they think they do, and they're very condescending about it, and they're very elitist,

00:08:09.960 and they just don't get it, and they make a whole slew of assumptions.

00:08:14.040 Just a little personal anecdote.

00:08:15.960 I grew up in more modest socioeconomic circumstances than, I think, all of my friends.

00:08:22.580 I also scored higher on the SAT than all of my friends.

00:08:26.980 And I'm very glad that I didn't have an adversity score on my SAT to help me out.

00:08:32.960 I didn't have any grievance score.

00:08:34.400 I don't know what I would have gotten on the grievance score.

00:08:36.160 But I'm very pleased that I didn't because the adversity score puts a little asterisk on your college admissions.

00:08:46.240 It would have diminished the accomplishment of getting into college,

00:08:49.460 and also it would destroy the academic confidence of any students who rely on it.

00:08:55.120 I mean, this is the problem with affirmative action.

00:08:57.900 Clarence Thomas hated affirmative action.

00:09:00.660 Clarence Thomas, one of the most brilliant guys in the country,

00:09:02.900 he's on the Supreme Court, he's maybe the best jurist on the Supreme Court.

00:09:08.460 He despised his experience at Yale Law School.

00:09:12.420 He got into the best law school in the country.

00:09:15.480 And then when he went to get a job,

00:09:16.940 he realized that the employers assumed he only got in because of affirmative action.

00:09:21.480 He didn't get in because of affirmative action.

00:09:23.100 He got in because he's extraordinarily intelligent and hardworking.

00:09:26.160 But that little asterisk destroyed his achievement,

00:09:31.340 and there's no way to come back from that.

00:09:34.260 So this score, this adversity score, it's going to be out of 100, 50 is going to be the average.

00:09:41.040 And if you get higher than 50, you are a victim.

00:09:45.460 And if you get lower than 50, you're privileged.

00:09:47.840 You don't know how you're going to come up with that.

00:09:50.580 This is exactly the backwards approach.

00:09:53.600 This is exactly the wrong approach.

00:09:56.500 So I'm not saying that the question of socioeconomic difficulty is not a serious question.

00:10:05.240 There is a problem that this is trying to address.

00:10:07.720 The problem this is trying to address is, generally speaking, rich kids have an advantage in life.

00:10:14.160 I mean, they have an advantage in most things, and this includes getting into colleges.

00:10:18.560 We all know that that is the case.

00:10:19.900 So, okay, if that's a problem, you want to equalize things, and you want to level everybody,

00:10:25.720 okay, what are the current solutions that we have?

00:10:28.720 We already have some solutions for that.

00:10:31.040 There are scholarships.

00:10:33.040 So people who come from more modest socioeconomic circumstances

00:10:36.240 can go to school for not very much money or for free.

00:10:39.940 That's what happened to me.

00:10:40.700 I had to pay very little money to go to college, and I'm very grateful for that.

00:10:44.420 I'm glad that that program exists.

00:10:46.060 You don't need an adversity score on your SAT for that to happen.

00:10:50.040 What's another way that we solve this problem?

00:10:53.020 One way that they try to solve it is race-based affirmative action.

00:10:56.900 That's the idea.

00:10:57.780 I mean, the assumption with race-based affirmative action is that black people are at a disadvantage,

00:11:05.240 and mostly because of money.

00:11:07.080 I guess there's systematic racism that is claimed by the left,

00:11:11.700 but also it's just a matter of black people as a demographic group have less money than white people as a demographic group.

00:11:21.500 So when they talk about race-based affirmative action,

00:11:24.380 what they're really trying to talk about often is socioeconomic circumstances.

00:11:28.860 So, okay, now you're trying to get more specific with this new program.

00:11:31.700 And fair enough, the race-based affirmative action often doesn't work because it doesn't factor in wealth.

00:11:37.540 So a lot of times you'll have people getting into good schools or jobs or whatever who are actually just immigrants from Africa 1.00

00:11:45.580 or the children of immigrants from Africa.

00:11:47.860 They're not the descendants of American slaves.

00:11:50.720 The purpose of affirmative action, ostensibly, is to get rid of the legacy of slavery in the United States.

00:11:56.520 But if that's the case, why would you then give that preference to a recent immigrant from a wealthy part of an African nation?

00:12:05.440 That doesn't make a lot of sense.

00:12:06.580 So, okay, there's some problems with that.

00:12:08.840 What else do we have to address this problem?

00:12:10.960 We have programs at the school level, right, at the universities.

00:12:15.420 It's not like the universities are unaware of socioeconomic disparities.

00:12:18.560 Universities all have programs to go into other states, to go into certain neighborhoods, to go into certain towns,

00:12:27.220 to go into certain schools that are disadvantaged.

00:12:29.360 The admissions offices already take all of that into account.

00:12:33.200 That's why schools send admissions officers to all sorts of different states.

00:12:36.460 If they just wanted to get the highest SAT scores, they wouldn't have to send students into all of those states.

00:12:41.880 And they then would get students from disproportionately small pockets of wealth in the country.

00:12:48.440 Okay, so you've already taken that into account.

00:12:51.800 The reason this is so awful is the entire purpose of standardized testing is that it's standardized.

00:13:01.780 If you take standardized testing and you stop standardizing it, there's no purpose.

00:13:08.260 You might as well get rid of the SAT.

00:13:11.880 But, Michael, you might say, surely things matter beyond the SAT.

00:13:17.720 Yeah, of course they do.

00:13:19.560 We already take that into consideration.

00:13:21.960 Schools take into account athletes, and athletes get preferential treatment.

00:13:25.520 Legacies get preferential treatment.

00:13:27.500 Children of big donors get preferential treatment.

00:13:30.040 Favored racial groups, favored racial minorities get preferential treatment. 0.71

00:13:34.760 Yes, we already take a lot of people who get grades, right?

00:13:37.980 Your grades, your GPA, is not standardized across every school in the country.

00:13:42.680 Some students have grades above a 4.0.

00:13:46.320 I don't know how they do that, but because some schools give extra credit or something.

00:13:50.260 Okay, so that's not—you already have all of that.

00:13:53.900 You already take into account socioeconomic status a lot of the time.

00:13:57.040 Also, there is a standardized measurement that different schools take into account to different degrees.

00:14:05.740 And what this would do is get rid of that standardized movement altogether.

00:14:09.420 It wants to take away standardized measurement.

00:14:12.160 Now, the last standardized measurement that we have is becoming arbitrary.

00:14:18.880 And the reason that this is so pointless and actually damaging is you can't measure suffering.

00:14:25.860 You can't measure grievance.

00:14:27.500 You can't measure adversity.

00:14:29.600 Objectively, you can't do it.

00:14:32.000 There are a lot of poor kids who grew up with both of their parents and who were told to study all the time

00:14:38.180 and who then worked their way into good high schools and good colleges.

00:14:41.200 This is obviously the case among recent Asian immigrants and the children of Asian immigrants in New York City in particular.

00:14:48.140 Now they're trying to fix this in New York.

00:14:49.860 They say there are too many Asians at the magnet high schools.

00:14:54.940 They come from very modest socioeconomic circumstances.

00:14:57.800 There are plenty of those people.

00:14:59.740 There are also rich kids.

00:15:02.080 Let's say you have a rich kid, right, and he comes from very high up socioeconomic circumstances.

00:15:07.000 And then his parent dies when he's 15.

00:15:10.160 And he's got to work through that in high school.

00:15:13.480 And he works through that and he takes the SAT.

00:15:15.800 And then he's dinged because he hasn't gone through adversity.

00:15:19.100 I think that kid's gone through a lot of adversity.

00:15:21.720 He's gone through more adversity than most kids are going to face.

00:15:24.080 How do you measure that?

00:15:24.800 How do you put that on the test?

00:15:25.800 How about even if you took your stereotypical rich kid, your stereotypical, you know, he gets a brand new car when he's 16 and he never has to get a summer job and he's just a total rich kid, right?

00:15:38.780 And he develops a drug addiction by 15 or 16.

00:15:42.420 I've seen this happen.

00:15:43.540 I grew up in a pretty wealthy county.

00:15:45.060 I saw this happen a lot.

00:15:46.820 And he develops a drug addiction.

00:15:48.100 His life is spiraling.

00:15:49.120 And then he turns it around.

00:15:50.220 He cleans up.

00:15:50.840 He sobers up.

00:15:51.660 He works hard by the time he's 17, 18, and he's ready to go to college.

00:15:55.740 That guy certainly overcame a lot of adversity.

00:16:01.100 Now, he kind of foisted it on himself.

00:16:03.040 He made some bad choices when he was a young teenager.

00:16:05.340 But then he made it through that adversity.

00:16:07.280 He clearly improved his life.

00:16:09.680 That kid went through more adversity than the poor kid who grew up in a good household with two parents and he always made the right choices.

00:16:19.140 How do you measure adversity?

00:16:20.660 And why is adversity the main measure?

00:16:22.760 You can't measure adversity in that way because all people suffer.

00:16:28.380 Everybody suffers.

00:16:30.180 The left wants to convince you that only certain people suffer.

00:16:34.140 Only their favored groups suffer and everybody else doesn't suffer at all.

00:16:37.760 Well, guess what?

00:16:38.320 The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike.

00:16:42.340 Now, not everybody talks about their suffering because it's unseemly to talk about your suffering all the time.

00:16:47.440 It's so ugly.

00:16:50.140 It's not manly. 0.98

00:16:51.480 It's not mature. 0.82

00:16:53.180 It's whiny to complain all the time.

00:16:55.380 It's ungrateful.

00:16:56.180 It's impolite.

00:16:56.820 It's not good.

00:16:58.000 It's also completely incoherent.

00:17:01.180 This whole measure victimhood thing doesn't make any sense.

00:17:05.800 Think about why we're even talking about victimhood in the first place.

00:17:08.900 Why has the left focused on grievance and victimhood for the last 20 years?

00:17:13.040 The main reason, I think, is because you can't measure it.

00:17:16.620 So the right comes out and we say, look, there are these objective measurements and this guy's getting what he deserves and you're getting what you deserve.

00:17:23.800 And what the left comes out and they says, you don't know my pain.

00:17:27.040 You can't possibly know my lived experience.

00:17:30.000 Stop trying to use your oppressive logic and your oppressive facts to erase my experience of the world.

00:17:38.300 I am suffering and the only reality that I know is my suffering and you can't know that because it's subjective.

00:17:47.500 Also, now it's objective and you can measure it when it's convenient for me.

00:17:51.480 That doesn't, you can't have that both ways.

00:17:53.820 Either suffering is subjective and I can't know your experience and so we are where we are.

00:18:01.640 Or it is objective and I can tell you, no, you're not actually suffering that much.

00:18:05.020 No, you actually haven't gone through that much adversity.

00:18:08.180 You can't have it both ways.

00:18:10.080 Either you can measure it or you can't.

00:18:12.920 The left wants to have it both ways right now and I think we just need to point out to them.

00:18:17.640 Everybody suffers.

00:18:18.640 I mean, this is, there's a great line in a play by, I think it's by Tennessee Williams called Orpheus Descending.

00:18:25.440 Is it?

00:18:25.780 I think that's the play.

00:18:26.840 And it's, anyway, it's this guy, this kind of vagabond.

00:18:29.000 He's walking around and he, he wants to stay at a lady's house for the night.

00:18:34.420 He's trying to sweet talk her and say, come on, let me stay at your house. 0.89

00:18:37.000 And she goes, nope, you get out of here.

00:18:38.760 He says, come on, I have nowhere to go.

00:18:40.340 And she says, everybody's got a problem and that's yours.

00:18:43.260 Everybody's got a problem.

00:18:44.520 And your problem is your problem.

00:18:45.800 And his problem is his problem.

00:18:49.280 But if we start trying to measure this, if we make this the be all and end all of society,

00:18:53.000 first of all, we're going to get into a very ugly culture because we'll just, all we'll 0.83

00:18:56.900 be doing is talking about suffering and complaining and everything's wrong all the time.

00:19:00.120 It's going to incentivize people to suffer more.

00:19:03.280 And it's, and it is going to deny the very real suffering of certain people.

00:19:06.820 It's so wrong.

00:19:07.760 It's so arbitrary.

00:19:09.160 And it's perfectly to be expected with what the left has given us for the last 20 years.

00:19:13.680 On some brighter news, we are in the pro-life moment right now.

00:19:19.100 It is happening.

00:19:20.760 Pro-life, since Roe v. Wade, the pro-life movement has proceeded gradually.

00:19:24.740 Now it's happening suddenly, all at once.

00:19:27.340 Missouri just passed a major abortion law that will restrict, will outlaw abortion after

00:19:33.000 eight weeks, after a heartbeat.

00:19:34.920 It would be detected.

00:19:36.480 So it's actually not even reliant on a doctor detecting it.

00:19:39.180 We know that at eight weeks, the heartbeat does exist.

00:19:41.800 Um, there's a law in Louisiana that is about to go into effect.

00:19:46.580 It's about to be passed.

00:19:47.960 We had the governor, female governor of Alabama yesterday, sign that law. 1.00

00:19:52.540 This is terrific news.

00:19:54.620 And yet some longtime right-wingers are not happy about it.

00:20:00.140 This puzzles me.

00:20:01.500 I think this moment, this pro-life moment is, it's, it's finally real.

00:20:07.180 You know, it's very easy for everybody to talk and say, oh, I'm pro-life.

00:20:10.060 Yeah, no, I'm pro, okay, sure, I'm pro-life.

00:20:12.580 Now it's real.

00:20:13.760 And so it's going to separate the pro-life wheat from the pro-life chaff. 0.77

00:20:17.720 And here is even, I mean, just to, just to show you how widespread this is, even Pat

00:20:21.780 Robertson, about as hardcore as it gets, about as pro-life as it gets, about as conservative

00:20:26.400 as it gets, he's getting this wrong and he's questioning these laws.

00:20:31.880 I think Alabama has gone too far.

00:20:34.440 They've passed a law that would give a 99 year prison sentence to people who can commit

00:20:39.300 abortion.

00:20:40.080 There's no exception for rape or incest.

00:20:42.840 It's an extreme law and they want to challenge Roe versus Wade.

00:20:47.060 But my humble view is that this is not the case we want to bring to the Supreme Court

00:20:53.660 because I think this one will lose.

00:20:56.040 Okay.

00:20:56.700 That's his argument.

00:20:58.300 Pat Robertson, Pat Robertson, about as hardcore as it gets.

00:21:02.400 Pat Robertson, the man who said, quote,

00:21:03.960 The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women.

00:21:07.740 It is about a socialist anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their 0.99

00:21:12.180 husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. 1.00

00:21:18.320 That guy, he says this law is too extreme. 1.00

00:21:21.940 He's not alone.

00:21:22.600 He's not the only one who's saying it's too extreme.

00:21:24.860 The publisher of the new reboot of Human Events, Human Events is an old conservative magazine.

00:21:30.540 It went out of business and then this year a couple guys restarted it, rebooted it.

00:21:35.860 The publisher of that new reboot criticized specifically me and Matt Walsh for defending

00:21:43.320 these laws, not just defending them, for celebrating these laws.

00:21:47.300 And I think a lot of conservatives are having these ideas.

00:21:49.960 I don't think they really quite have arguments here, but they do have feelings.

00:21:55.140 And so I think we should address those feelings because I get it.

00:21:59.380 I understand where those feelings come from.

00:22:00.980 I just don't think they hold up to the rigor of logic.

00:22:03.580 So let's take a look at their arguments and see if they've got any point.

00:22:06.800 I wanted to do a take on this one.

00:22:08.600 I really did.

00:22:10.120 I really wanted to do one.

00:22:11.400 I couldn't deal with it.

00:22:13.020 Like, I normally do not like sticking my finger in the eye of the pro-life movement, which

00:22:20.560 I see as a core part of our coalition.

00:22:22.380 And I have deep sympathy for the perspective.

00:22:26.440 But like, I can't let this stuff go.

00:22:29.120 The things that Michael J. Knowles and Matt Walsh are justifying today appall me, like

00:22:33.620 very, very deeply.

00:22:34.580 Like, the things, the way they're deciding to argue this position strikes me as so unbelievably 0.96

00:22:40.400 flippant and incoherent and ridiculous that it just needs to be called out. 0.96

00:22:44.320 Like, in general, there's a way to be pro-life without making arguments that are just disgusting. 0.98

00:22:49.740 I don't, I don't mean, I mean it.

00:22:50.740 Like, these arguments genuinely disgust me.

00:22:54.100 And I'll try and explain why, why I think they're so flippant and they're so dismissive

00:22:59.800 of concerns about bodily autonomy and, and essentially any sort of idea that you have

00:23:05.440 a liberty interest in your own body.

00:23:06.980 They're so, so flippant that they just appall me.

00:23:10.220 Okay.

00:23:10.780 So this goes on for like four or five minutes. 0.96

00:23:13.760 You'll notice he's talking and he's saying it's disgusting and it's awful and he's terrible. 0.71

00:23:19.860 And you'll notice he's not making any arguments.

00:23:22.380 He's just sort of venting his emotions.

00:23:24.980 You'll notice too, at the beginning, he says the arguments he's making, the things he's 0.88

00:23:29.080 saying, the, the content of what Knowles is arguing is awful and disgusting.

00:23:34.520 And the way in which he's arguing them is awful.

00:23:37.020 So he switches.

00:23:37.900 At first, it's the actual thing itself.

00:23:39.700 What is my argument?

00:23:40.460 I'm saying we shouldn't kill babies before they're born.

00:23:42.960 That's my, that's the beginning and the end of my argument.

00:23:45.380 Don't kill babies in the womb.

00:23:48.100 That's it.

00:23:48.400 That's the whole content.

00:23:49.100 So he's saying that I disagree with.

00:23:50.980 That appalls me. 0.93

00:23:51.780 That's disgusting. 0.95

00:23:53.000 And then he's saying the way in which he's arguing it is also disgusting. 0.90

00:23:56.680 And so on that latter point, he might, he's saying I'm being flippant or glib or something.

00:24:00.980 I actually don't think I have been, I certainly can be, but I don't think I have been on this

00:24:05.880 topic itself.

00:24:07.120 He doesn't give an example, obviously in that part of the rant.

00:24:10.040 So I can't, I just can't judge it.

00:24:12.320 But he's also saying that the argument that we shouldn't kill babies in the womb is appalling

00:24:17.440 to him.

00:24:19.740 But why does he, does he go on and say, this thing goes on for half an hour.

00:24:23.740 I listened to, I haven't even listened to the whole end of it because I didn't have

00:24:27.400 that much time, but I did listen to the parts where I at least found that he was addressing

00:24:31.280 my arguments in particular.

00:24:33.660 So here's what he takes issue with specifically.

00:24:37.060 So Michael Knowles basically has been trying to defend the law in which imposes these enormous

00:24:43.520 punishments on doctors who commits abortion and, but do not punish the women who are, who

00:24:49.420 get the abortions, right? 1.00

00:24:50.300 It says, and this is one tweet quote, abortionists in Alabama face potentially harsher punishments

00:24:55.320 than rapists because murder is considered a more serious crime than even than rape.

00:24:59.500 And it says also that Alabama has tough rape laws.

00:25:01.840 And then he says, and then, then somebody asked him, it's like, okay, but if that's true,

00:25:05.200 he says, if it's murder, why shouldn't the woman be punished? 0.81

00:25:08.340 If at least it's a conspiracy to commit premeditated murder.

00:25:11.080 And Knowles says, quote, and this, this blows my mind because conservatives, why ego or justice

00:25:15.260 are compassionate and conscious of human frailty.

00:25:17.300 I'm sorry, you just said abortion was worse than rape. 1.00

00:25:20.480 We don't look at whether or not our compassion and consciousness of human frailty does not

00:25:26.120 lead us to not punish rapists, right?

00:25:30.420 Okay.

00:25:30.960 There are a few factual things wrong with what he said.

00:25:33.480 I actually didn't say that murder is worse than rape.

00:25:36.040 I said that murder is considered by our society, by every one of our states and the whole country

00:25:41.980 and the whole civilization, murder is considered worse than rape.

00:25:46.160 And therefore it follows that people who commit murder will be punished more harshly than people

00:25:51.700 who commit rape.

00:25:52.840 I then also point out that Alabama has some of the toughest rape laws in the country. 0.99

00:25:58.500 Coincidentally, I'm all for making the rape laws much worse. 0.99

00:26:01.160 I'm, I'm perfectly fine with capital punishment for rapists. 0.99

00:26:04.120 I have no problem at all with killing rapists. 1.00

00:26:08.680 I, I totally, I, I mean, I, I would support that if I were the king, I would kill rapists. 1.00

00:26:15.420 Once we convict them, I would kill them. 1.00

00:26:17.180 I'm not the king. 0.99

00:26:18.220 I understand why our laws don't do that, but those are totally separate issues.

00:26:22.600 The crime of rape and the crime of, of murder, the crime of abortion. 0.87

00:26:27.480 Now he goes on to say, he, he acknowledges my, my answer to the question, well, if abortion

00:26:34.200 is, is morally equivalent to murder, why don't we punish the women? 1.00

00:26:39.660 And the reason we don't punish the women is because conservatives, while eager for justice, 1.00

00:26:45.740 are compassionate and we are conscious of human frailty.

00:26:49.600 So he says, ha ha, I've got you there because if abortion is murder, then you should punish

00:26:55.060 the women. 0.81

00:26:55.460 No, we shouldn't. 0.95

00:26:58.240 Abortion is different than killing somebody out on the street.

00:27:02.140 It is morally similar, if not morally equivalent, but it is circumstantially quite different,

00:27:09.620 obviously.

00:27:10.560 And, and the, the motivations that would compel a woman to try to procure an abortion, the

00:27:16.140 personal motivations, the cultural motivations, and because the Supreme Court invented a fictitious

00:27:21.320 right to abortion, what we now consider the legal conditions that would lead her to do that are

00:27:26.060 different.

00:27:26.380 And so, because we are taking all of those circumstances into account, we recognize that we probably

00:27:32.900 shouldn't punish those women. 0.98

00:27:35.000 There is, there is a difference in the motivation to commit that crime.

00:27:38.240 There is probably not, however, a moral difference in the crime itself.

00:27:43.140 If I kill a baby at one day old, does anyone really believe that's morally different than

00:27:49.460 killing a baby two days before he's born? 0.97

00:27:52.140 No, of course not.

00:27:53.300 Nobody really believes that.

00:27:55.200 This guy, Will Chamberlain, the, the editor of the, or the publisher of the new human events,

00:27:59.600 I don't think he believes that.

00:28:01.140 How about three months before the baby's born?

00:28:03.480 Is it really morally different? 0.98

00:28:04.920 You're killing a baby.

00:28:06.180 You're a baby with unique DNA who is its own person. 0.77

00:28:11.360 The, the fact of killing that innocent human being is not different.

00:28:15.420 However, there are different circumstances that lead to that crime.

00:28:18.900 I acknowledge those historical, cultural, and today legal differences.

00:28:24.180 And so it seems much, uh, it seems perfectly defensible to punish the doctor who is a, a, an 1.00

00:28:33.420 outside force who is committed, who is actually committing the act, who is actually killing

00:28:38.500 the baby, who does, is not compelled by all of those various circumstances.

00:28:43.120 And it makes perfect sense to punish him according to the law, but to not punish the woman.

00:28:49.460 I don't see any reason, uh, why that, uh, why that shouldn't be the case.

00:28:53.820 I know it's not neat and clean.

00:28:55.140 It's not, it, it doesn't have that perfect ideological clarity, right?

00:28:59.780 All shallows are clear.

00:29:00.840 And, and, uh, Will Chamberlain acknowledges, as I do, that the circumstances that lead one

00:29:07.140 to shoot some guy in the street and that lead a, a woman to get an abortion are different.

00:29:11.680 And so I'm saying we can treat those people differently according to the law, perfectly 0.96

00:29:15.580 fine, while still defending the victims of those crimes who are the victims of exactly

00:29:21.280 the same crime.

00:29:22.000 They're being killed.

00:29:23.100 They're innocent and they're being wrongly killed.

00:29:25.360 Now, Will gives up the whole story in, in his last bit, he explains the, the real issue

00:29:34.180 that he has with my argument.

00:29:35.820 And I think it shows you why these squishy pro-lifers, the, the people who are pro-life,

00:29:40.820 but don't, but don't want to actually have real pro-life laws, why they go wrong.

00:29:45.920 We'll get to that in a second.

00:29:46.700 But first, remember to tune in today for my latest episode of The Conversation at 7 p.m.

00:29:50.440 Eastern, 4 p.m. Pacific, where I'll be answering all of your burning questions.

00:29:54.800 The episode is free to watch on Facebook and YouTube, but only subscribers can ask the

00:29:57.980 questions.

00:29:58.620 Subscribe and tune in today, 7 p.m.

00:30:00.280 Eastern, 4 p.m.

00:30:00.940 Pacific.

00:30:01.560 Join The Conversation.

00:30:03.320 Go to dailywire.com right now.

00:30:04.940 So much more to get to.

00:30:05.820 We have to talk about the 23rd Democrat in the race.

00:30:09.460 All of that at dailywire.com.

00:30:11.800 10 bucks a month, $100 for an annual membership.

00:30:14.020 You get me, you get the Andrew Klavan show, you get the Ben Shapiro show, you get the Matt

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00:30:21.160 backstage, you get another kingdom, you get so much stuff.

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00:30:27.720 left is furious.

00:30:28.940 Get your Tumblr before you drown.

00:30:30.400 We'll be right back with a lot more.

00:30:42.420 So before we get to the 23rd Democrat in the race, and before we get to the mailbag, I just

00:30:46.980 want to finish up this point because Will Chamberlain, the publisher of the new Human

00:30:51.360 Events, he does explain his big issue, and this I think is the central question of pro-life.

00:30:59.380 Here is what I think is essentially why he's so upset and offended and appalled by the

00:31:05.080 arguments that Matt Walsh and I and other pro-lifers are making.

00:31:08.140 The issue I have with the way that Michael Knowles and Matt Walsh try and think about

00:31:12.660 the ethical questions with regard to abortion is they're extremely deontological, meaning

00:31:17.780 that they are entirely trying to logically reason their way through semantic arguments

00:31:23.300 to the idea that it is never okay under any circumstances to allow abortion to be legal,

00:31:29.080 even in the most extreme cases.

00:31:30.520 Sure, you're right.

00:31:32.800 You're right.

00:31:33.800 So deontology, for those who are not familiar with that word, is the moral concept of considering

00:31:40.400 a moral act in and of itself, not considering the consequences of some act, not saying, well,

00:31:46.060 this act is right or wrong because of what it will lead to, which is called consequentialism,

00:31:51.340 but saying this act is right or wrong in and of itself.

00:31:54.460 It's, it's wrong to kill an innocent baby.

00:31:58.580 That's making that claim to him is taking, uh, is, is being too deontological.

00:32:03.400 And then he uses the word logical.

00:32:04.780 He says what, what Knowles is doing is he's starting with the premise that it's, it's wrong

00:32:09.920 to kill innocent babies. 0.87

00:32:11.260 And then he's semantically, by the way, the word semantics means meaning. 0.77

00:32:17.260 So in the meaning of what that is, he's following it logically to the conclusion that we should

00:32:22.840 not have legal abortion, right?

00:32:25.480 That's what I'm doing.

00:32:26.860 I'm considering the act of abortion itself.

00:32:29.520 Then I am following it logically to its conclusion.

00:32:32.940 And I'm saying we should not have legal abortion, right? 0.84

00:32:36.240 And what he's saying is stop thinking so logically about this.

00:32:41.840 It's bad to make women give birth to the babies they have. 1.00

00:32:47.380 It's bad not to let people kill babies in the womb. 0.99

00:32:50.080 Okay.

00:32:50.260 That's not an argument, but I do, I do see the, uh, impulse for that.

00:32:57.220 What he's saying is the extremes are so wrong.

00:32:59.600 What Pat Robertson is saying is the extremes.

00:33:01.380 They're not going to win.

00:33:02.340 Most Americans aren't on the extremes.

00:33:04.420 Okay, fine.

00:33:04.940 I'm with you.

00:33:05.820 I, uh, you're right.

00:33:07.000 Two thirds of Americans don't want to overturn Roe v. 0.95

00:33:09.480 Wade.

00:33:09.700 I understand that political reality.

00:33:11.380 And so with these guys, the kind of the moderate guys, the incrementalist guys, the gradualist

00:33:17.120 guys, what they say is we shouldn't follow the logic of abortion to its logical conclusion,

00:33:22.300 which by the way, the, the people who are seriously thinking about this now on both sides

00:33:26.600 of it are following abortion to its logical conclusion.

00:33:29.520 New York's governor, Andrew Cuomo, Virginia's governor, Ralph Northam, they are following

00:33:33.920 abortion to its logical conclusion. 0.99

00:33:35.480 If it's okay to kill innocent babies, then we shouldn't not be able to kill them after 0.99

00:33:40.500 26 weeks, we should be able to kill them as they're being born or right after they're 0.99

00:33:44.640 born. 1.00

00:33:45.640 Okay.

00:33:46.500 Yeah, that's, that is the logical conclusion of abortion. 0.72

00:33:49.040 If you support abortion, the logical conclusion of abortion, if you don't is a baby's a baby. 0.79

00:33:54.080 You shouldn't kill babies who are innocent.

00:33:56.160 So therefore you shouldn't kill them at 26 weeks.

00:33:59.800 You shouldn't kill them at 20 weeks. 0.98

00:34:00.900 You shouldn't kill them at six weeks. 0.99

00:34:02.760 You shouldn't kill them because they're babies. 0.98

00:34:04.740 Doesn't matter their circumstances.

00:34:06.540 Doesn't matter who the mother is, who the father is.

00:34:08.460 You shouldn't kill babies.

00:34:10.700 And there are hard cases that come out of that.

00:34:13.180 Hard cases make bad law.

00:34:14.760 Fortunately, the hard cases that everybody is citing right now, cases of a baby being

00:34:20.320 conceived because of rape or incest or that pose a threat to the life of the mother, that

00:34:25.560 accounts for less than 1% of abortion.

00:34:27.760 So it's, it's very disingenuous for people to bring that up.

00:34:30.560 Also, these laws make an exception when the life of the mother is at risk.

00:34:34.480 So even the argument that Will is making on that point just is, is not the case.

00:34:39.460 However, I see it.

00:34:40.820 I get that the people want a middle way here politically.

00:34:44.100 Okay, fine.

00:34:44.820 If you want a middle way, there are two options.

00:34:48.900 You can either pick some arbitrary point and pretend that the constitution allows you to

00:34:52.720 kill babies before a certain point, but not after a certain point.

00:34:55.620 And I don't know, you're going to have to look really deep into the constitution to 0.99

00:34:58.220 find that arbitrary point in there.

00:34:59.840 That's one version of finding a middle way.

00:35:02.240 The other version is let the states make their own abortion laws. 0.99

00:35:06.100 The constitution says nothing about abortion.

00:35:08.700 It isn't one way or the other.

00:35:09.960 It is not in there.

00:35:11.340 Let the states make their own laws. 0.98

00:35:12.940 So New Yorkers can live the way they want to live.

00:35:15.440 Alabamans can live the way that they want to live.

00:35:17.420 And hopefully, as has been happening over the last 50 years, people will see the moral

00:35:22.180 reality of abortion, and then they will change their laws because they're not hamstrung by 0.60

00:35:25.860 some ridiculous Supreme Court decision that invents a right to abortion.

00:35:30.740 They can actually change as their moral clarity changes, which will change in New York.

00:35:36.420 That's what should happen.

00:35:37.220 Some conservatives are disapproving of these laws because they go too far.

00:35:41.500 Oh, I don't know if the Supreme Court will go for it.

00:35:43.600 Oh, maybe we should water it down.

00:35:45.120 Maybe.

00:35:45.900 Give me a break.

00:35:47.820 Guys, fight the fight.

00:35:50.940 Fight the fight.

00:35:51.860 If you're not going to fight the fight, what are you doing?

00:35:55.520 Well, maybe we should pass laws that won't try to overturn Roe v. Wade, but they'll just 0.77

00:36:00.480 chip away at Roe v. Wade.

00:36:01.560 No, guys, fight the fight.

00:36:03.480 We actually, when I got to meet Antonin Scalia twice before he died, and one time that I was

00:36:08.440 meeting him, some of us asked, what about story decisis?

00:36:13.320 What about, story decisis is the legal principle that gives weight to precedent.

00:36:19.040 So we've got Roe v. Wade, 1973.

00:36:22.860 Then we've got Planned Parenthood v. Casey in 1992.

00:36:25.380 Both uphold the imaginary right to abortion.

00:36:28.960 So what about that precedent?

00:36:30.520 And I support taking precedent into account.

00:36:34.360 I think what these conservatives are saying is, think about the precedent.

00:36:36.700 Think about the precedent.

00:36:38.880 Some decisions are so egregious.

00:36:41.980 This is what Scalia said.

00:36:43.380 Some decisions are so egregious that they simply have to be overturned.

00:36:48.880 Dred Scott decided that black people couldn't be U.S. citizens. 0.85

00:36:51.780 That was a Supreme Court decision.

00:36:53.280 There's no incrementalism there.

00:36:54.880 There's no way to chip away and change it gradually over time.

00:36:58.920 Either black people can be citizens or they can't be citizens. 1.00

00:37:02.240 You have to overturn that decision. 1.00

00:37:04.120 Either the Constitution gives you a right to kill babies or it doesn't give you a right 0.99

00:37:09.140 to kill babies. 0.99

00:37:09.980 There's no incrementalism there. 1.00

00:37:11.500 There's no gradual change.

00:37:12.900 Fight the fight.

00:37:14.260 Before we get to the mailbag, we have a 23rd Democrat running for president now.

00:37:18.360 And because he's my old mayor, Mayor Bill de Blasio in New York, we've got to talk about

00:37:23.020 it because Bill de Blasio is launching his campaign on a pro-theft agenda.

00:37:28.620 There's plenty of money in this world.

00:37:31.400 There's plenty of money in this country.

00:37:33.120 It's just in the wrong hands.

00:37:37.300 Here in New York City, a place that is legendarily tough and big and complicated.

00:37:45.220 Good thing about New Yorkers is they look the same whether they're really pissed off at

00:37:48.560 you or they like you.

00:37:50.400 We built an agenda that puts working families first.

00:37:54.120 We had to fight all over the city, all over the state, to make sure that people got a

00:38:00.240 decent wage.

00:38:01.580 We are raising the wage to $15 an hour.

00:38:07.920 Waitresses and dishwashers and store clerks and people who work in small manufacturing firms,

00:38:13.520 a backbone of New York City.

00:38:15.240 You will have the legal guarantee for the first time of paid sick leave.

00:38:19.120 This has never existed anywhere else in this country.

00:38:23.780 Fully comprehensive, guaranteed health care.

00:38:27.440 My wife, Shirlane, and I believe health care is a human right.

00:38:31.480 It has to be available for all.

00:38:33.180 It has to be affordable and it has to include mental health services.

00:38:38.260 Okay.

00:38:40.700 First of all, the only guy who needs mental health services in this entire video is Bill de

00:38:44.520 Blasio.

00:38:44.960 I just would like to point out, being a New Yorker myself, I'm in New York all the time.

00:38:49.860 I've lived in New York for a long time.

00:38:52.260 Bill de Blasio is a terrible mayor and he's extremely unpopular, not just among conservatives.

00:38:57.140 There are only about 20 conservatives in New York anyway, but among liberals too. 0.95

00:39:00.880 They hate this guy.

00:39:02.100 He has made the city worse.

00:39:03.560 He's made it dirtier.

00:39:04.740 He's made it more crime ridden.

00:39:06.720 It's just bad.

00:39:07.960 The homeless problem has gotten out of control.

00:39:10.120 He's a very bad administrator.

00:39:12.180 The Democrats were going to try to challenge him last election.

00:39:14.920 They weren't able to get their stuff together, but he's not popular in New York.

00:39:18.160 So I think he's thinking, I got to get out of New York.

00:39:20.260 I got to run for the big office.

00:39:21.800 Now's my shot because there's no clear front runner.

00:39:24.060 The other thing we know from this is just as the whole election is shaping up, this is

00:39:29.040 going to be the free stuff primary.

00:39:31.000 All he's talking about is giving stuff away for free, except he's taking it to a little

00:39:35.420 bit of that tougher extreme.

00:39:36.800 He said, New Yorkers are tough.

00:39:38.080 If we don't like you or we like you, we have the same look on our face, which is basically

00:39:41.440 true.

00:39:42.160 And so he's taking the, the free stuff primary to that tougher level.

00:39:45.860 And he's saying, we're going to steal stuff from people.

00:39:47.960 He's actually turning it not just into the free stuff primary.

00:39:50.800 He's turning it into the theft primary.

00:39:52.720 He said, there's a lot of money in New York.

00:39:55.120 Problem is it's in the wrong hands.

00:39:58.320 He's saying your money is in your hands and therefore it's in the wrong hands.

00:40:04.900 The money you've earned is in your hands, but it's in the wrong hands.

00:40:07.700 Therefore, well, who's, whose hands does my money belong in?

00:40:13.460 De Blasio says my money belongs in somebody else's hands.

00:40:15.960 Okay.

00:40:16.880 I want Bill de Blasio to tell me whose hands my money belongs in.

00:40:20.440 He's not going to speak in those kinds of terms.

00:40:22.480 I also want to point out, he's not a real New Yorker.

00:40:25.040 He's a Boston Red Sox fan and he's got an Italian last name, but he's not Italian.

00:40:28.740 I think it was a stepfather's name or something like that.

00:40:30.580 So we just, I just, as a New Yorker, as an, as a descendant of Italian heritage, I just

00:40:36.200 want to say, please don't blame him on us.

00:40:38.500 We don't even like him.

00:40:39.800 New Yorkers do not like this guy.

00:40:41.540 Okay.

00:40:41.960 Let's get to the mailbag.

00:40:42.940 The reason we're going to cut the mailbag a little short today, because we got the conversation

00:40:45.660 later on, but let's get to as many questions as we can.

00:40:49.380 From John.

00:40:50.420 Michael, with respect to Alabama's and Georgia's new abortion laws, I haven't seen any coverage

00:40:54.240 related to in vitro fertilization.

00:40:56.260 My understanding of IVF is that many eggs are harvested and fertilized at once, and

00:41:00.920 at times, many embryos are implanted in the uterus, some of which are removed.

00:41:06.740 How should laws be crafted with respect to aspects of IVF?

00:41:10.040 Thanks, John.

00:41:11.040 P.S.

00:41:11.820 Thanks for taking my question last year regarding coping with my wife's multiple miscarriages.

00:41:16.840 As an update, we kept open to the possibility of new life in our marriage and are happily

00:41:21.080 awaiting our new son this summer.

00:41:24.000 Congratulations.

00:41:24.820 That's great news.

00:41:25.540 I'm very glad to hear that.

00:41:27.320 Yes, nobody talks about IVF.

00:41:31.080 And now IVF is coming up because the left is throwing this in the pro-life movement's

00:41:35.240 face.

00:41:35.940 They're saying, wait a second. 0.99

00:41:37.880 You're saying that it's a murder to kill an unborn baby.

00:41:42.040 But IVF can very frequently creates many fertilized embryos.

00:41:48.780 It creates many new human beings.

00:41:50.520 And then it freezes them away or it implants them in the uterus. 0.98

00:41:54.160 And then if you don't want to carry all those kids, it takes them away. 0.72

00:41:57.860 It aborts them.

00:41:58.980 See, this is a contradiction.

00:42:01.460 Fair enough.

00:42:01.980 Yeah.

00:42:02.920 IVF, in the way that it is usually practiced, fertilizing multiple embryos and then freezing

00:42:09.520 or destroying them is not defensible.

00:42:13.580 This is something the pro-life movement doesn't talk about because there's some disagreement

00:42:17.200 or it just would create divisions.

00:42:19.760 But nevertheless, it is the case.

00:42:21.680 I mean, from a prudent political matter, right now we're talking about abortion laws and

00:42:26.800 we're having so much great effect on that.

00:42:28.780 So I think we need to keep pushing until that goes to the Supreme Court and overturns Roe

00:42:32.820 versus Wade.

00:42:33.600 However, it's also the case that IVF, as it is usually practiced, is not defensible from

00:42:39.880 a pro-life position.

00:42:41.220 From Derek.

00:42:42.020 Hi, Michael.

00:42:43.280 The claim that making abortion illegal will only decrease the number of safe abortions rather

00:42:46.980 than abortion in general is all over social media.

00:42:49.320 Can you please speak to any evidence that supports or negates this?

00:42:52.360 Thanks.

00:42:53.080 Absolutely, I can.

00:42:54.300 Before Roe versus Wade in 1970, there were 52 abortions in the United States per 1,000 0.98

00:43:00.140 live births.

00:43:01.060 After Roe versus Wade, the year after that, 1974, that number jumped up to 242 abortions 0.97

00:43:08.780 per 1,000 live births.

00:43:10.660 By the 80s, it reached its high of 364 abortions per 1,000 live births.

00:43:16.420 Roe versus Wade caused the abortion rate in the United States to skyrocket, not just the

00:43:22.160 legal abortion rate, the total abortion rate to skyrocket in the United States.

00:43:27.160 And as we discussed before, the year before Roe versus Wade was decided, 39 women died from

00:43:33.520 illegal abortions.

00:43:34.680 24 women died from legal abortions.

00:43:36.920 And when you factor in the legality of abortion throughout the United States, you find out that

00:43:42.740 proportionally, it was just as dangerous to have an illegal abortion at that time as it

00:43:47.240 was to have a legal abortion. 0.99

00:43:49.620 That is, those are the facts.

00:43:51.700 We, we, you can look at the statistics from the CDC.

00:43:55.500 Abortions skyrocketed after Roe versus Wade.

00:43:58.820 From Landon.

00:43:59.740 Dear Mr. Knowles, I'm a Christian and recently started a wedding DJ business.

00:44:03.660 And I had the thought, what should I do if I'm asked to perform at a same-sex wedding?

00:44:08.440 What do you think?

00:44:09.000 Thanks, Landon.

00:44:09.660 What are your views on marriage?

00:44:12.420 I know that certain Christian denominations or, or sects now approve of, of same-sex marriage

00:44:19.800 or the redefinition of marriage.

00:44:21.220 So if you're in one of those, I guess it doesn't prove a problem to your faith.

00:44:25.300 If, however, you say that marriage has a meaning and that meaning does not include monogamous

00:44:31.560 same-sex unions, but it does, or any other version of that, that marriage is between a man

00:44:38.680 and a woman.

00:44:39.680 If you believe in the traditional definition of marriage, yeah, I guess it would be pretty 0.99

00:44:44.060 hard to participate in that marriage. 0.94

00:44:46.100 I suppose it depends though.

00:44:47.260 If it's a gay couple that is not getting, having a marriage, they're just having a party 0.99

00:44:51.880 and they say, yeah, we don't, we don't agree.

00:44:54.640 I mean, I have many gay friends who do not agree with the logic of redefining marriage.

00:45:01.200 They say, no, marriage has a meaning and I have a life partner or I have a special friend

00:45:08.280 or I have a whatever, but that is not the same thing as marriage.

00:45:12.500 So if they're having a party, which they explicitly say, this is not a marriage, this is not a

00:45:16.300 wedding, that, I guess that gives you some leeway, but this is a very difficult question

00:45:20.360 that is changing daily because marriage continues to be redefined every single day.

00:45:24.960 If you had talked eight, eight years ago, people had civil unions.

00:45:28.280 Is a civil union the same thing as a marriage?

00:45:30.480 I don't know.

00:45:31.200 That's another question.

00:45:32.460 It would people refer, the New York Times said when they were talking about etiquette

00:45:37.080 on how to refer to a gay, a gay man's gay husband, how do you call him husband or this?

00:45:42.600 And they suggested the word partner. 0.80

00:45:44.260 Now, probably that term is bigoted.

00:45:46.740 Probably now you're politically correct, supposed to say husband or something.

00:45:51.300 I don't know.

00:45:51.560 It's changing every day and you will have to answer that question as regards your faith.

00:45:56.800 If, however, you believe that marriage has a meaning and if the clients are saying this

00:46:03.280 is a gay wedding, this is a marriage, this is a wedding, and you don't want to participate 1.00

00:46:08.620 in that, you shouldn't participate in that.

00:46:11.020 From Evan, dear Michael, the man who loads European football, that's me, it's called soccer.

00:46:16.960 Last night on Ladder with Crowder, Stephen said he once considered creating a company baseball

00:46:20.980 team.

00:46:21.340 He implied that Ladder with Crowder would play against the Daily Wire.

00:46:23.840 I know that baseball is your favorite sport.

00:46:26.660 Would the Daily Wire accept if the challenge was ever made?

00:46:29.320 And what would the starting lineup be?

00:46:30.780 Have a swarthy day, Evan.

00:46:32.400 No, I would never accept that.

00:46:34.680 I played Little League for eight years.

00:46:36.620 I think I hit the ball four times.

00:46:39.420 No chance, man.

00:46:41.360 Actually, I should point out, I didn't hit the ball very much, but I did lean into pitches

00:46:45.240 like Don Baylor.

00:46:46.380 So my on-base percentage was very high.

00:46:48.320 But no, also, by the way, virtually everybody in the political media is like 5'10", 5'9",

00:46:54.380 somewhere around there.

00:46:55.540 Stephen Crowder is a giant man.

00:46:57.660 So no, uh-uh.

00:46:58.900 No, thank you.

00:46:59.720 I'll play ping pong with him or something.

00:47:01.820 All right, we have a lot more questions, but unfortunately, we do not have time to get

00:47:05.660 to them.

00:47:05.960 We'll get to them on the conversation today, so be sure to watch it live and ask your

00:47:09.620 questions.

00:47:10.080 In the meantime, I'm Michael Knowles.

00:47:11.140 This is The Michael Knowles Show.

00:47:12.300 I will see you on Monday.

00:47:14.100 The Michael Knowles Show is a Daily Wire production.

00:47:42.720 Copyright Daily Wire 2019.

00:47:45.540 Today on The Ben Shapiro Show, controversy continues to swirl around Alabama's new abortion laws.

00:47:50.900 That's today on The Ben Shapiro Show.

The Michael Knowles Show - May 16, 2019

Ep. 350 - The SAT Now Tests For Victimhood

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