The Michael Knowles Show - Friendly Fire： A Different Kind of Nuclear Deal & Vance's ＂Communion＂ Calculus

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00:00:05.200 Yeah, hey, who should I take in the Boston game?

00:00:07.260 Well, statistically speaking...

00:00:08.800 Nah, no more statistically speaking. I want hot takes. I want knee-jerk reactions. 0.97

00:00:13.280 That's not really what I do.

00:00:15.440 Is that because you don't have any knees? Or...

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00:01:00.000 I know that your pretending skills are very good, Michael.

00:01:04.380 I'm fully aware of that.

00:01:05.740 Can someone turn my ears down?

00:01:06.880 I don't need to.

00:01:07.220 But Drew's worse at pretend.

00:01:08.980 Drew's better at self-delusion, but worse at pretend.

00:01:13.160 I'm awful at pretend.

00:01:14.540 I just can't stop saying what I mean.

00:01:16.220 Right now, but you're really good at convincing right now.

00:01:18.200 But the problem is that you're able to convince yourself of things that ain't so.

00:01:21.840 Not true.

00:01:22.760 Not true.

00:01:23.560 I have been right about this thing from the beginning.

00:01:25.340 Save it for the show, you two.

00:01:27.420 Save it for the show.

00:01:28.680 Yes, save it for the show.

00:01:29.420 Can someone turn my ears down, please? 1.00

00:01:32.700 I think the most important thing is that Syria should run Lebanon. 0.86

00:01:36.980 What I learned today is that Syria should run Lebanon, that Iran actually is owed money, 0.98

00:01:41.560 and that we should actually allow them to have as many missiles as they want, because that's only fair. 0.96

00:01:45.700 Those are some of the things that I learned today.

00:01:48.360 I'm excited to learn all these things.

00:01:49.800 Hold on.

00:01:50.220 I had here for the top of the show that we were going to talk about something else,

00:01:52.920 because I had this really interesting interview with one of the survivors of the grooming gangs in the UK.

00:01:57.640 has massive report out of the rape gangs. But clearly, we're not going to start with that.

00:02:02.580 We're going to start by talking about Ben's favorite deal, which is the MOU on Iran. This

00:02:08.640 is Friendly Fire. The Shapiro armistice in Tehran. Ben, what's your favorite part of the deal? 0.58

00:02:22.640 Oh, man, I'm not sure what to pick. I mean, I know there's so many wonderful aspects to it.

00:02:27.180 I'm not sure whether it's the immediate release of sanctions without any further guarantee of anything remotely like nuclear disarmament.

00:02:34.880 I heard that wasn't true.

00:02:36.540 Well, you can hear what you want or you could just read the text.

00:02:42.400 I'm not sure whether I also like the part where we essentially say that the straight-up-form moves can be told.

00:02:49.120 That's really exciting news.

00:02:50.620 Very, very into that.

00:02:51.380 Very, very into the idea that Iran should have massive funds released to it.

00:02:57.440 The president said that today.

00:02:58.500 That was that was great. 0.96

00:03:00.220 Or the part where he said that essentially the Syrians should take over Lebanon, which is an interesting idea that worked brilliantly between 1970 and 2005 when the Syrians literally ran Lebanon and it didn't go so hot. 0.87

00:03:12.980 So just from where I sit on this, there were five main goals of this war. 0.74

00:03:16.880 nuclear disarmament, permanent nuclear disarmament,

00:03:19.980 reducing ballistic missile stockpile

00:03:21.760 and destroying their capacity to actually build new ballistic missiles

00:03:24.640 because it was the ballistic missile umbrella

00:03:26.180 that was the cause of the war in the first place.

00:03:28.920 The cutoff in support to terror groups,

00:03:32.860 the opening of the Strait of Hormuz,

00:03:34.960 and then the fifth point would be when all of that is done,

00:03:37.100 maybe some form of economic loosening,

00:03:39.880 but when all the first four were done.

00:03:41.460 And so far from what I see, none of those things is happening.

00:03:44.940 Now, again, that doesn't mean that in the long run, again, it's an MOU.

00:03:48.320 So we should start off with this.

00:03:49.220 It's an MOU.

00:03:49.920 An MOU doesn't mean anything.

00:03:50.860 It's basically like a non-binding term sheet.

00:03:53.220 The really biggest problem with this thing is that it releases a bunch of money to Iran right up top.

00:03:57.900 There's already oil flowing out of Iran.

00:04:00.060 One of the original—

00:04:01.000 Okay, oil money is one thing.

00:04:02.280 I mean, look, on this point, before we get into exactly what was good, what was bad,

00:04:06.160 I just got off the phone with senior U.S. officials, and they read through verbatim the MOU,

00:04:12.380 which was very similar to a lot of the copies of the text that had been going around.

00:04:16.800 So directionally, it's all the same.

00:04:18.160 There were some little quibbles.

00:04:19.500 But also worse.

00:04:20.300 Also worse, actually.

00:04:21.300 What they read to you guys was actually worse with regard to the Strait of Hormuz.

00:04:24.520 But put that aside.

00:04:25.140 Listen, I mean, look, opening the Strait of Hormuz, I think, is a good thing.

00:04:28.080 But we can get into that in a second.

00:04:29.840 The top line of it, though, that the administration seems keen to make clear,

00:04:34.720 and we'll see what happens over the weekend in Geneva,

00:04:37.560 is that Iran, they'll open the Strait of Hormuz.

00:04:40.800 there will be no tolls whatsoever for 60 days. Then again, this is what I'm hearing. Don't shoot

00:04:46.220 the messenger. This is what I'm hearing from the U.S. officials. No, no, no, no. You say for 60

00:04:49.560 days very, very softly at the end. No, no. But then they even address that. And afterward,

00:04:54.580 you know, they said then there will have to be cooperation among the Gulf states to figure out

00:04:59.680 what the protocol looks like moving forward. And the argument, at least from the admin, is

00:05:03.100 that the other Gulf states are not going to allow Iran to have a toll on the straits. So take that

00:05:07.780 for what it's worth. Then, in terms of the sanctions relief, no sanctions relief whatsoever.

00:05:12.740 Iranian oil can flow, but none of the many other sanctions that Trump himself boosted up on Iran

00:05:17.580 will be lifted until after the deal, and crucially, until after we get nuclear dust.

00:05:22.940 Now, the actual way in which we would get the nuclear dust seems to be a little unclear. It

00:05:27.980 could be us actually going in ourselves and taking it. But anyway, that would have to be figured out.

00:05:32.920 Then this $300 billion from the Gulf states, that again would not include the United States giving a single penny necessarily to it.

00:05:40.220 It would be the Gulf states themselves investing in Iran to help rebuild Iran, which I think actually could be a decent thing.

00:05:47.860 And crucially what it would do is stop the choking off of the Strait of Hormuz and 20% of the world's oil supply. 0.70

00:05:54.880 On top of the destruction of the Iranian military, the obliteration, at least for now, of Iran's nuclear program, and inspections and all the rest. 0.75

00:06:03.640 Now, with that said, Ben, you said that the point of this, the chief point of this war was to end Iran's nuclear ambitions permanently. 0.91

00:06:10.720 And I think that'd be great. I'd love to do it. 0.89

00:06:12.680 But I don't think there's any world this side of heaven in which you end Iran's weapons.

00:06:17.640 Trump said that. 0.99

00:06:18.860 Sure.

00:06:19.180 I didn't say that. Trump said that.

00:06:20.360 And so did J.D. Vance.

00:06:21.220 And so did the Secretary of State.

00:06:22.200 So I just want to make clear that the five goals that I laid out at the beginning were not just things that I thought were good, which is why I agreed with them.

00:06:28.500 They were explicit goals of the administration. 0.94

00:06:30.520 Do you think we can permanently end Iran's nuclear program? 0.89

00:06:34.020 Yes, I do think we can permanently end Iran's nuclear program. 0.58

00:06:36.460 Iran will never seek another nuclear weapon.

00:06:37.840 How would we do that?

00:06:39.340 OK, the way that you would do that is you would bomb Harg Island.

00:06:41.500 You would bomb the South Pirates at Gasfield. 0.89

00:06:43.000 You would permanently defenestrate their economy and make it literally impossible for them to fund the rebuilding of any of those efforts. 0.96

00:06:49.000 and you would just give overwatch to our allies in the region like Israel and UAE and pull out.

00:06:53.460 That's what that would look like. 0.63

00:06:54.400 So at that point, let's say that you bomb Karg Island, you completely— 0.72

00:06:58.960 I mean, what we're talking about there truly is regime change.

00:07:01.560 Trump himself is saying, we kind of got regime change,

00:07:03.680 but what you're talking about is truly you obliterate the Iranian regime.

00:07:07.000 And then what happens?

00:07:08.200 What happens if the country descends into civil war?

00:07:11.000 What happens if you—

00:07:12.340 You know what happens with civil war-ridden countries?

00:07:14.940 They don't have the capacity or the willpower to develop nuclear weapons.

00:07:18.100 You were asking me how you solve the nuclear weapons problem, and I just answered that question.

00:07:22.520 But the reality is that when it comes to the deal, to go back to the deal for one second,

00:07:27.580 I know that the administration is trying to sell the idea that the only way that we could get out of this

00:07:31.920 was either that we basically bribe them, because that's what this is, or that there's endless war.

00:07:36.680 And that isn't true. It's not true.

00:07:39.340 By the way, one solution here would have been, I mean, the other solution in terms of opening up the Strait of Hormuz.

00:07:44.520 Well, you just said the alternative is civil war, but that's endless war.

00:07:47.000 No, that is not what I said. What you said is the alternative is civil war. What I said is

00:07:52.180 a permanently weak regime with the oversight of our allies looking over their nuclear facilities,

00:07:57.660 their missile facilities, raids every so often, mowing the grass, as they like to say in the

00:08:01.100 Middle East. That is one possibility. Another possibility would have been that we allow for

00:08:05.800 and help our allies in the region, including Saudi, UAE, Bahrain, and yes, Qatar, to actually

00:08:10.080 run the Strait of Hormuz. We tried to do that with Project Freedom for five seconds before the

00:08:14.360 president was convinced out of it by somebody. The notion that the only two choices here are

00:08:19.520 permanent, endless, bloody war or complete surrender. That is a Barack Obama model.

00:08:25.560 That is what Barack Obama said about the 2015 Iran deal. And basically, if you're going to use

00:08:29.440 that same logic here, then, you know, I don't think it was good then. I don't think it's good

00:08:32.740 now. And I think that it also happens to be untrue. And the sort of concessions that are

00:08:36.940 being made right now to Iran in again, this is an MOU. I want to emphasize again, the MOU is

00:08:43.040 preliminary. OK, so the only thing that I'm deeply upset about right now in the MOU,

00:08:47.680 they're really a couple of things. There's what's clearly not in even any future negotiations.

00:08:52.240 Support for terrorism is not in any future negotiations. Ballistic missile negotiations,

00:08:56.020 not in any future negotiations. None of that is part of the MOU. When it comes to the nuclear.

00:09:00.440 Hold on, Ben. In a way, Hezbollah is not written out in the MOU in the 14-point document. 0.97

00:09:06.440 But what the administration is at least saying about the MOU is that because we are not giving

00:09:10.780 iran any money we're not freezing unfreezing any assets we're not lifting all these sanctions

00:09:14.560 but immediately that's not true okay hold on hold on hold on hold on michael one one second

00:09:18.860 one one clarification no one one clarification on the sanctions then you go back to the terrorism

00:09:22.460 okay clarification on the sanctions there are several different things we're talking about

00:09:26.260 when we talk about sanctions one is the full-scale sanctions on the iran on the iranian economy those

00:09:31.120 don't all go away these sanctions on the export of oil and petrochemicals go away immediately

00:09:35.920 OK, immediately. And that includes in the provisions, it includes the removal of financial sanctions and insurance sanctions on any of that stuff.

00:09:44.580 So right now, before the war, for example, there were, in fact, sanctions on Iran's oil capacity in terms of export and import in that they had to use, for example, ghost fleets in order to move their oil around because anybody who was attempting to do business with them was sanctioned.

00:09:58.240 That all goes away immediately, not in 60 days, not after negotiation.

00:10:01.820 That goes away like two days ago, and that goes away two days ago because they shut off

00:10:06.000 the strait, which means, realistically speaking, what are we talking about?

00:10:08.980 What we are talking about is Iran maintains control of the strait.

00:10:12.500 Anyone attempting to argue that Iran does not have now permanent capacity to shut down

00:10:16.780 the strait anytime they want is lying to you.

00:10:19.320 It's not true.

00:10:20.600 Didn't Iran, I guess, but isn't the point, and we'll get to the proxies in a second,

00:10:23.760 but isn't the point, Iran obviously had this capacity.

00:10:26.220 One thing we learned in this war is that Iran's ability to close the strait is, frankly, a

00:10:30.640 more powerful weapon than the potential nuclear weapon that they were seeking. And so they 0.97

00:10:34.640 obviously had that power. It's true, the oil sanctions would be lifted immediately, in part

00:10:38.260 because we're saying, if you reopen the strait, all the oil is going to flow, and the concession

00:10:41.560 is including Iranian oil. But in terms of the funding of the proxies, at least what the

00:10:46.200 administration is saying about the MOU, and I think you can read that in the text, is that

00:10:49.700 the United States only starts to unfreeze assets. The United States only starts to lift the actual

00:10:55.080 sanctions on Iran's economy based on performance. So getting the nuclear dust and them cooperating 0.98

00:11:00.180 with the regions in the Gulf and also with the United States. So you could say, you know, that

00:11:05.980 we're offering the opportunity to give them money. But clearly, if they're going to be funding

00:11:10.500 Hezbollah and Hezbollah is going to keep attacking Israel and or any of our other allies, then

00:11:15.180 according to the administration's framework, they're not going to give them a penny in extra

00:11:19.740 relief. OK, but the problem, although they haven't been quite clear about whether they're going to

00:11:24.740 let money flow from other places, which I think is just as bad. There's absolutely no difference.

00:11:30.660 You know, I got to say, you guys, my personal favorite commentator, namely me, started out

00:11:36.080 saying at the very beginning of this war that this war is on a timer. And the timer, I think,

00:11:41.080 has run out. And the reason it's on a timer is because our interests and the interests of our

00:11:47.720 great friend and probably staunchest ally, Israel, are almost the same, but they're not the same. 0.84

00:11:54.740 Iran at this moment, at this moment, Iran is an existential threat to Israel. The existential 0.79

00:11:59.560 threat to the United States of America right now is the Democratic Socialists of America who are

00:12:05.240 ginned up, you know, who are ginned up, who are training their candidates, who are well-funded,

00:12:11.920 completely motivated, and really a danger. And I think Trump is thinking about this. I don't just

00:12:16.140 think that's, oh, it's politics. I think this is a serious, serious problem to our way of life and

00:12:21.120 our country, in our future. So I don't see this as a deal at all. I think if I had to choose

00:12:26.020 between you two guys, which would just be like one of my nightmares having to choose between you

00:12:29.460 guys. But I would I would say that Knowles is being way, way too rosy. I think Ben is being

00:12:35.060 a little too dark, but still, it's probably worse. It's probably worse than what Knowles is saying.

00:12:39.720 But the first sentence out of Shapiro's mouth is the one that I go with. This is not a deal.

00:12:45.720 This is a ceasefire.

00:12:47.140 It's an extended ceasefire that if they violate it, I do seriously believe that before Trump 0.97

00:12:53.380 allows himself to look like a loser, he will blow that country off the face of the earth.

00:12:57.520 And so I think that what he's counting on is he's counting on he can stretch this out 0.87

00:13:02.880 until the midterms and make the midterms just a little less bad than they're otherwise going to

00:13:08.700 be.

00:13:09.140 And I think that's what this is about and that we should talk about it without including

00:13:13.200 the danger to America that America faces from these incredibly insane leftists is just not

00:13:19.640 taking the full measure of the situation. The full measure of the situation is we are under attack

00:13:25.760 from within. Israel is under attack from without. All my heart is with Israel. I hope they do great. 0.60

00:13:30.860 I think we should supply them with any weapons they need. But at some point, we have to stop

00:13:35.940 this because people want to see Trump paying attention to the world at home. And they're

00:13:40.880 tired of 20 years of war in the Middle East. So number one, listen, I think it's an interesting

00:13:45.180 argument. I think that there are long-term ramifications to the stuff that happens right

00:13:48.760 now. And of course, if things change, then I will change my opinion, right? I was very much in favor

00:13:52.760 of what the president was doing at the beginning. I'm not in favor of what the president is doing

00:13:55.600 right now. If he changes any about faces, I'm sure I will be in favor of that. I should mention at 0.82

00:14:00.520 this point, our sponsors over at Cal, she suggests that 42% of people believe that there will be some

00:14:06.260 sort of nuclear deal before October, 48% before November, 53% before December. I'm going to go

00:14:11.700 with 0% on this, by the way. I think the chances of a long lasting nuclear deal with the Iranians, 0.63

00:14:17.300 very, very low, specifically because the president does not want to do JCPOA 2.0, but worse. 0.76

00:14:22.240 And so I think that the idea that he is going, and the only thing the IRGC, here's the fundamental

00:14:26.300 thing. The IRGC has not changed. They're exactly the same as they ever were. The notion that,

00:14:31.220 and this stuff I do actually think is really bad. When the vice president of the United States

00:14:35.540 was supposed to head on over to Switzerland

00:14:37.620 and do a grip and grin

00:14:38.680 with Mohamed Khalabov,

00:14:40.020 the head of the Iranian parliament

00:14:41.180 and a member of the IRGC

00:14:43.120 and a person who is at least partially responsible

00:14:45.460 for the murder of 42,000 people in the streets.

00:14:48.240 And by the way,

00:14:49.020 the targeting of American troops

00:14:50.140 and the almost killing

00:14:51.500 of a couple of American pilots last week.

00:14:53.680 That is not a good look

00:14:55.140 because they are not reasonable people.

00:14:56.960 They are not reasonable actors

00:14:58.100 and elevating them to the status

00:14:59.620 of they ought to shake the hands of the vice president,

00:15:02.480 I think is a mistake for J.D. Vance

00:15:03.920 on a political level.

00:15:04.820 I think it's also a mistake for the administration on a moral level.

00:15:07.860 As far as the electoral argument, Drew, there's a point I was making on my show earlier.

00:15:11.100 It's really interesting.

00:15:11.860 I think that a lot of presidents tend to believe that as the economy goes, so go I.

00:15:16.480 And there's some truth to that.

00:15:17.680 If there's a big depression, the president gets walloped.

00:15:20.120 If the economy is doing well, the president still tends to not do particularly well in the midterms.

00:15:24.240 One thing is, however, very, very clear.

00:15:27.020 The American people hate losing wars.

00:15:29.820 They hate it.

00:15:30.880 If you go back and remember the Biden administration, I know, it feels like it was a lifetime ago.

00:15:34.820 If you remember the first year of the Biden administration, inflation jumped right off the bat.

00:15:38.540 You remember this? By the middle of the summer, it was already well in excess of 5 percent.

00:15:41.860 It was headed up toward 9 percent. And his approval ratings were still in the mid 50s.

00:15:45.300 And the reason they were still in the mid 50s is because people can actually weather a little bit of economic turmoil.

00:15:50.660 They did under Barack Obama, too. And he wasn't super popular, but he wasn't super unpopular.

00:15:54.380 What finished Joe Biden as the president, and it was the thing that everyone tends to forget, was the withdrawal from Afghanistan.

00:16:00.080 You can look at it in the poll. August, September, when he withdrew from Afghanistan,

00:16:03.360 his opinion poll numbers went from 52 percent all the way down to 39 and then they just stayed there

00:16:08.820 for the rest of time doesn't mean all the stuff he did otherwise wasn't important it was but it

00:16:13.080 is indicative of the fact that the american people we don't like getting into wars but if we're going 0.97

00:16:16.800 to be in a war we really do not like losing wars and we don't like to be humiliated by tin-pock 0.97

00:16:20.960 dictatorships who have their own people out there saying by the way everything that i'm saying about 0.97

00:16:25.240 the deal and what and what the deal is being interpreted as here's the thing when i make a

00:16:29.200 contract with somebody it has to be a meeting of the minds right the terms have to have a definition

00:16:32.660 and those definitions have to be accepted by both sides.

00:16:35.220 If you have the Trump administration saying

00:16:37.340 this amounts to the nuclear disarmament of Iran,

00:16:40.120 it amounts to no more support for terrorism,

00:16:41.880 it amounts to the opening of the strait,

00:16:43.780 and you have the Iranians saying

00:16:44.800 this amounts to no nuclear disarmament,

00:16:47.180 this amounts to the strait will not be told by us, 0.61

00:16:49.540 and it amounts to Israel does not have freedom of action

00:16:51.700 in Lebanon anymore.

00:16:52.980 Well, that's not what you normally call

00:16:54.980 a meeting of the minds.

00:16:56.180 That means that no one actually agrees on anything.

00:16:58.480 And so what this comes down to in the end 0.97

00:17:00.060 is basically we are bribing the Iranians to open the strait. 0.99

00:17:03.080 That's all. 0.97

00:17:03.600 No, I don't know.

00:17:04.720 The other thing you have to take into account here, Ben,

00:17:07.680 and you can't just look at it without this.

00:17:10.320 You know, Donald Trump, like all of us,

00:17:12.260 his best feature and his worst feature are the same features. 0.97

00:17:15.080 And his worst feature is that big hole in his face right under his nose. 0.94

00:17:18.580 I mean, the stuff that comes out of that mouth of his is,

00:17:21.420 first of all, its shelf life is about 20 minutes.

00:17:25.180 He says, you know, you just have to kind of take it, you know, with a pound of salt.

00:17:31.080 So a lot of the promises he made, I agree with Knowles on this.

00:17:34.800 There's no way without actually just destroying this country, you can guarantee that it'll never be a nuclear power.

00:17:41.100 He's gone a long way to make it much more difficult for them to get back.

00:17:44.960 But I don't think I don't think there's any chance of him allowing himself to look like a loser in this war.

00:17:51.960 I just think it's something that he cannot do. He can't sleep at night if that happens.

00:17:57.020 J.D. Vance, by the way, the bad news about J.D. Vance is he has definitely lowered his chances of becoming president.

00:18:04.000 The good news is I think he's destroyed Knowles' future political career, which I think we should.

00:18:09.240 Vance and I agree on too much.

00:18:12.780 By the way, I actually agree with this, Drew.

00:18:15.540 I think that one of the things that's happening here is I do not think that President Trump was deeply embedded or invested in these negotiations.

00:18:21.380 for example right i don't think he's he's sitting there and he's haggling over the details i think

00:18:25.380 frankly his negotiators were telling him what he wanted to hear and so that's why you hear the

00:18:28.680 president saying things that are certainly not in the document and then you read the document like

00:18:32.480 this is not in the document this is i i would bet dollars to donuts that his negotiators were telling

00:18:37.320 him that basically this deal was going to give him everything he could possibly want in life

00:18:40.880 and he believed them and then he was like okay sounds great great deal and then it turns out

00:18:45.680 actually do those things hold on you i was told that for a while that we were you know when people

00:18:51.360 were claiming that Netanyahu or somebody dragged Trump into war. We were told we were denying

00:18:56.880 Trump's agency and, you know, we were just blaming wicked advisors, but it's never the

00:19:01.240 king's fault or anything. Do you really not think that Trump wants, I think he wants out.

00:19:06.020 I think he had a discreet interest here. Oh, I agree he wants out. And so he wanted to end

00:19:11.420 the Iranian nuclear program or there's no ending it, but there's seriously setting it back. I think

00:19:15.600 he did seriously set it back and he destroyed their military and the deal is hinging on nuclear

00:19:20.540 dust. So we'll see if we even get a deal out of it. But I think he wanted that. And I think other

00:19:24.600 people wanted regime change. And I think Drew's point is right that the U.S. and Israel interests 0.69

00:19:29.660 overlap substantially, much if not most of the time. But sometimes they diverge a little. If I

00:19:34.780 were the PM of Israel, I would insist upon regime change. For the U.S., it's a little less important

00:19:40.140 and there are more domestic concerns to focus on too. And I don't think he really was gung-ho about

00:19:45.580 regime change. He left open the possibility. He called on the Iranians to rise up. They didn't.

00:19:49.280 this Mueller regime, this awful evil Mueller regime has lasted twice as long as the CIA regime

00:19:54.960 that we installed in 1953. So they're a little stronger than a lot of us gave it credit for.

00:19:59.140 And I don't think he's walking into this blind or being misguided by advisors. I think he wants

00:20:04.020 that. And from the beginning of this, to your point, Drew, you know, I was, I don't mean to be

00:20:08.380 too rosy about the deal. I'm just telling, telling you what I've heard. But I said, from the very

00:20:13.020 beginning, I said, the two ways this ends are with a deal that's going to be unsatisfactory to

00:20:17.900 basically everybody or with a protracted war that's going to lead to a lot of civil war in

00:20:24.400 the region. It certainly is true. It certainly is true that while Vance made a stupid statement 1.00

00:20:30.940 about how all wars end with negotiations, which isn't true, it is true that all wars in the Middle 0.97

00:20:35.520 East end in this blurry kind of who knows what happens. And it's, you know, eventually we're

00:20:40.020 going to get back to shooting at each other mess that every single one ends like this. And I think

00:20:46.580 that that's where we're at. And I actually don't think, I mean, the stuff that Trump has been

00:20:51.580 saying about Netanyahu was, at least yesterday, now he's kind of dialed it back, is absurd. But

00:20:57.680 I do think that Netanyahu might just lay low for like a week, just a week, let Trump get to the

00:21:04.840 point that he wants to get at. I do believe that Trump will not allow himself to look like a loser 0.96

00:21:09.620 in this war. He won't let it happen. And the harder, you know, you notice the press is being

00:21:13.780 very quiet about this. They usually lambaste him for everything he does, but the left-wing

00:21:18.220 press is being quiet about this because they know if he starts to feel that he's being depicted as

00:21:22.300 a loser, he's going to go back in there with guns. I think the left-wing press is being pretty quiet

00:21:28.940 about this because they think that it's Obama's deal. I mean, Obama is saying that it's Obama's

00:21:32.500 deal. So again, the only thing that I'm saying about President Trump and his advisors is that

00:21:38.220 I agree that President Trump wants out. I agree with you, Michael, that President Trump wants out.

00:21:42.680 I think whichever advisor told him that he can get out in the fashion that gives him the best possible headline is the one that he listened to, even if those advisors were not exactly being straight with him about what was in the deal.

00:21:54.060 Because of Drew's point that he would not be able to sleep well at night if he thought he was a loser, and Trump won't allow that to happen.

00:22:01.340 But if you want to sleep well at night, you know what you need?

00:22:03.660 You need your Helix mattress, baby.

00:22:05.700 I got a house full of them, okay?

00:22:07.440 And I'm not involved in Iran negotiations at all.

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00:22:13.220 So if you want to have the best sleep of your life, you need Helix.

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00:22:35.720 So you can try it totally risk-free.

00:22:37.280 but that doesn't matter because you're going to love it and you're going to buy them for your

00:22:40.660 kids if you're a good father like me. So right now, you need to go to helixsleep.com slash

00:22:45.540 dailywire for 20% off site-wide, 25% off luxe mattresses, 30% off elite mattresses. I know we

00:22:52.420 pillory the elite sometimes. The elite mattress, we should never pillory. You should pillow your

00:22:57.080 elite mattress and rest your head on it very soundly. Helixsleep.com slash dailywire, 20%

00:23:01.840 off site-wide, 25% off luxe, 30% off elite. Make sure to enter our show at checkout so they know

00:23:06.720 that we sent you feel like sleep.com slash daily wire. Well, Michael, I mean, I'm very impressed by

00:23:13.040 the, by the shift from pillory to pillow. That was, that was, that was, that was somewhat clever

00:23:17.040 wordplay. I kind of enjoyed it. Well, speaking of clever people, Matt Nuclear is joining the

00:23:22.780 daily wire. So for those who are unaware, Matt Nuclear is very, very able in debate. If you ever

00:23:28.380 watch him on Jubilee, if you have ever seen him in the online world, he is now launching a new show

00:23:33.480 with us in which he is basically going to be streaming and taking all comers. You can watch

00:23:38.220 it Monday through Thursday, 7 p.m. Eastern, live on YouTube at the Nuclear Reaction. Here's some

00:23:42.900 of the trailer. One very young man absolutely slaughtered Amanda Seals' poisonous ideology.

00:23:50.500 That's just the truth. And you're un-American, you're uneducated, and your IQ is around 50. 0.98

00:23:55.700 This is a masterclass. Why are you so scared to debate the truth? You've been making this about 0.92

00:23:59.400 israel you sir are a hypocrite it is matt nuclear matt nuclear matt nuclear no one's afraid of you 0.99

00:24:04.840 okay you're supposedly on the dei council but i have to teach you this stuff why should i think 1.00

00:24:09.840 that the white man is the oppressor when black men are more likely to kill me the world has chosen 0.99

00:24:14.780 the nuclear reaction 0.99

00:24:18.200 Matt Nuclear, I believe he's joining us on the line.

00:24:27.920 And when he does, there he is.

00:24:29.680 There we go.

00:24:30.400 Hey, Matt, congrats on the show.

00:24:33.820 Really exciting stuff.

00:24:34.500 So tell us a little bit about what people can expect.

00:24:37.740 Yeah, so the show is going to be pretty chaotic.

00:24:40.280 It's going to be live action debate.

00:24:41.720 So just think like radio call-ins.

00:24:43.560 Anyone is going to be able to call in and debate certain topics.

00:24:47.540 I'm going to have up there.

00:24:48.380 They're going to be

00:24:48.620 pretty controversial topics

00:24:49.740 about domestic policy,

00:24:51.300 foreign policy.

00:24:51.960 People can call in

00:24:52.780 and we're going to be doing

00:24:53.740 some like live action debates.

00:24:55.280 We're going to add

00:24:55.920 a level of comedic comedy.

00:24:59.380 So like sound effects

00:25:00.860 and different stuff like that.

00:25:02.340 And yeah, it's going to be really fun.

00:25:03.860 Maybe some reactions

00:25:04.680 and going over different stuff.

00:25:07.520 But it's going to be, you know,

00:25:08.860 live sort of internet shock debate,

00:25:11.840 you know, stuff like Jubilee,

00:25:13.100 but just with Collins,

00:25:14.180 people calling into the show.

00:25:15.920 Hey, Matt, can I ask you a question?

00:25:17.240 First of all, welcome. Welcome to the team. It's great to have you on board. I have the hardest

00:25:22.540 time getting any left wingers to talk to me. And I'm not even a debater. I will listen to anybody

00:25:27.240 and let them have their say. How are you going to get people who disagree with you to come on?

00:25:31.040 They're such scaredy cats. Right. So, I mean, I originally actually started doing this about a

00:25:36.820 year and a half ago with TikTok live debates. TikTok actually has a really good guest call-in

00:25:41.880 feature called multi-guest. And so people will scroll on TikTok and I'll show up on their

00:25:47.080 TikTok feed with a few prompts that they probably disagree with or they may agree with, whatever it

00:25:52.140 may be. And they will just basically request. When I actually first started doing TikTok live

00:25:56.800 debates, I would have 30 people in the guest request just waiting to come in. And it's very

00:26:01.660 chaotic. The chat goes crazy. It's really exciting and really fun stuff. And we converse about

00:26:07.160 everything, like racial politics, domestic policy, foreign policy, everything in between.

00:26:12.740 that's great so matt you're matt is matt is 19 years old by the way folks so so matt for those

00:26:19.280 who don't know watch it yeah yeah i mean some of us started really young i mean drew was never young

00:26:24.760 so he doesn't know but for those of us who are once who are once young you know matt so obviously

00:26:30.020 you have very very strong political opinions how did you get where you are politically who are

00:26:34.540 sort of your your formative thinkers that you focused on well one i would say is definitely

00:26:40.520 you i've always been a big fan of you i would say even since i was like really young before i really

00:26:44.600 knew anything about politics i would see uh ben shapiro videos of him destroying the libs i remember

00:26:48.840 that one time the uh it was like some radical transgender person that like threatened to like

00:26:53.720 send you home in an ambulance which didn't make a lot of like logical sense um and thomas soul

00:26:59.800 obviously i've read his book uh disparities and discrimination he's also amazing um you know

00:27:04.120 clarence thomas ben carson many other different influential writers when it comes to liberalism

00:27:08.200 and conservatism that I've, you know, obviously read. And I've just been sort of creating,

00:27:14.180 you know, my opinion from the like research I've actually been doing on different subjects and so

00:27:19.520 on. And then, so you, you started out, obviously you're, you're extremely young compared to us,

00:27:24.980 you're in utero and you've, you've been, you know, coming up on all these writers and thinkers.

00:27:29.640 Now you're joining the daily wire. Some would say we inked a nuclear deal. So I'm glad that

00:27:34.340 we got at least one of those in the world. What's your vision for the show? How much of it is going

00:27:41.600 to be live debate? Are you going to be out there mixing it up, traveling around? Are you going to

00:27:46.520 take on only the libs? Are you going to take on part of the right? Are you going to take on one

00:27:49.800 of my favorite horses to whip, which is the libertarians? Where do you see it going?

00:27:55.700 Well, I'll take on anybody, whether you're far right or far left or in between or whatever it

00:28:01.140 may be and you have a question, you can always come up and get a debate with me. I'm going to

00:28:05.180 be trying to do different speaking events and engagements, which I've kind of already done a

00:28:09.300 little bit of. And I will be traveling for other live debates and just doing all sorts of different

00:28:15.280 things. But regardless of where you are on the political aisle, I will have a conversation with

00:28:19.000 you. I'll have a conversation with absolutely everybody. But I will also be trying to mostly

00:28:23.100 keep it to like live debates. But there will be moments where I'll be going over certain things

00:28:28.080 on X or YouTube or reacting really quickly, or even maybe going on some monologues, right?

00:28:33.600 But I will try to keep it mostly, you know, about live debates and also, you know, answering the

00:28:38.640 chat and keeping up with questions and stuff. What are the, in terms of the issues that are

00:28:44.040 really animating you right now, this is one thing I've noticed, what you talk about the old Ben's

00:28:48.020 destroys videos, which just completely took over the entire world. And, you know, since we were

00:28:52.940 all doing that out there on the college campuses and Ben is like shutting down the city of Berkeley,

00:28:57.540 I've noticed, as I go to the different schools, the issues have changed a lot.

00:29:01.340 It used to be in 2016, free speech was the big issue. 0.99

00:29:04.080 Then it became transgenderism.

00:29:06.300 Then religion has really taken a big role in the last few years, which is terrific.

00:29:11.160 But all of these big debates.

00:29:13.520 What is it that you see really animating the Zoomers?

00:29:17.040 What really animates you?

00:29:19.200 If you didn't have a Helix mattress, what issues would keep you up at night?

00:29:22.660 Well, I think the issues that would still keep me up would be like issues in reference to the border, issues in reference to racial politics in America, things in reference to DEI, affirmative action, discriminations.

00:29:34.800 That's actually what I first went viral for when I debated Amanda Seals and I went on Ben Show for the first time.

00:29:39.800 And so those issues, I think, will always keep me up.

00:29:41.840 You know, leftist social and economic policy, those things domestically speaking.

00:29:45.660 But I also went pretty viral also, like just generally when it comes to what I've been doing for also discussing Israel.

00:29:52.660 Um, and you know, I, when I first started like doing TikTok lives at first, I started talking

00:29:57.240 about Trump and I also, you know, started talking about, you know, Zionism and different things in

00:30:00.760 reference to that. And a lot of people really got mad at me and it became chaotic and I kept doing

00:30:05.060 my research and we just kept debating it over and over again. And so I think one big thing that's

00:30:10.160 kind of encapsulated, uh, you know, conservative liberal leftist right wing, uh, media in America

00:30:15.880 is the Israel question, you know, Zionism, uh, Israeli political influence stuff in reference

00:30:21.420 to that. And I've been having a lot of a series of debates about that, especially the Israel-Palestine

00:30:25.860 conflict. So that's one thing when we're talking about in regards to foreign policy that I also

00:30:31.040 discuss quite frequently. Wait, people are interested in Israel? Hold on, are people

00:30:35.020 talking about it? I'm probably I didn't. Yeah, very big news, big news. When you look at the

00:30:42.020 country, since you have no past, you have no reference points because you're only just born,

00:30:47.300 when you look at the country, do you think like the good guys are winning, the good guys are

00:30:50.960 losing? I think the good guys, I mean, I don't know whether or not the good guys are necessarily

00:30:56.400 losing. I think that there is a hyper fixation on Israel, especially from the far right and the

00:31:01.120 far left. It's kind of creating this sort of horseshoe theory phenomenon where like people

00:31:05.500 like Cenk Uygur and a Kasparian are sort of in alignment with other people like Tucker Carlson

00:31:09.900 and Candace Owens and all sorts of other people that are on the right, like Nick Fuentes, for

00:31:13.140 example. And so they're creating a sort of weird coalition to go against, I believe, Western values

00:31:17.960 that, well, Islam isn't really a threat and that Israel really is evil in comparison to the entire

00:31:21.980 Middle East and that, you know, you can really a lot, you know, make allies with anybody regardless

00:31:27.140 of beliefs and so on. But I believe that that has been a popular thing and that they have been

00:31:33.280 winning in terms of popularity when it comes to that. But I agree with what Ben said when he was

00:31:38.620 discussing that and responding to that. I mean, the popularity of opinions, you know, don't validate

00:31:44.160 them and that facts still don't care about your feelings. So regardless of how popular it is,

00:31:48.800 it doesn't really matter, you know? Also popular for a podcaster and popular for a guy running for

00:31:55.440 nationwide re-election, two entirely different things. Talk about diverging interests. There's

00:32:01.000 no doubt about that. You mentioned the economics and the class warfare, and obviously Thomas Sowell

00:32:06.200 is excellent on that. What do you make, I've noticed this too, a little bit on the right,

00:32:10.780 but much more on the left. Elon Musk, who is one of the most productive individuals of any of our

00:32:16.000 lifetimes, if not the most productive, he becomes the world's first trillionaire as he's creating

00:32:22.040 all these really great products, preserves the American public square on Twitter, and everyone

00:32:27.240 hates him for it. Do you see a lot of that kind of class envy, resentment? Obviously now the young

00:32:33.160 left especially is willing to take on the moniker of socialism. Are we just careening toward

00:32:39.420 communism forever? It almost kind of seems like it. Well, the left always sort of like tries to

00:32:46.640 fight some sort of social injustice, whether it comes to billionaires or wealthy people or people

00:32:52.120 that don't feel oppressed, et cetera. I would say that, yeah, that is something that the left has

00:32:57.040 been discussing and has been sort of like, I could say, leaning towards, right? Like Zeran

00:33:02.200 Amdani, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, AOC, all of these sorts of people are calling themselves

00:33:07.480 democratic socialists and they sort of align more with those ideals. Bernie Sanders has been running

00:33:11.940 on this whole thing with taxing the billionaires and so on and so forth. But again, I still think

00:33:16.360 that they believe that Elon Musk has a trillion dollars the same way that Scrooge McDuck had a

00:33:20.900 trillion dollars. It's like Elon Musk just goes into his spot and there's like a trillion

00:33:27.420 coins or something like that, which is not the case. I mean, if you were to rapidly liquidate

00:33:34.620 those assets, it'd be horrible for everyone, including 401ks, people's pensions, different

00:33:39.000 stock options, and so on and so forth. So it's not the way people envision it, right? It's the

00:33:43.620 asset value of the company increasing because people are actually interested in purchasing

00:33:49.760 products from his companies. It's not the same way that it's him hoarding money, which is the

00:33:53.980 misunderstanding that people have. That's obviously true. And I think, you know,

00:33:57.220 socialism and communism in all its forms is just evil and satanic. But there is an interesting

00:34:03.280 kind of critique that comes out of wealth inequality. One is that the palace is never

00:34:08.220 safe when the cottage is unhappy. But then the other one is that we have a right to private

00:34:12.300 property, but nevertheless, this comes from Catholic social teaching, that there is a

00:34:16.620 universal destination of goods. In other words, we have real rights to private property, but we also

00:34:21.280 have obligations to each other in society. And so people are trying to pretend like Elon is doing

00:34:26.880 backflips in his pile of gold. But what occurs to me from that critique is Elon actually is living

00:34:33.680 up to those responsibilities. He puts aside his companies for a second to go help the government

00:34:38.260 become more efficient. He puts $44 billion to put his money where our mouth is to go preserve the

00:34:43.340 public square because conservatives were being discriminated against. So in a way, I think he's

00:34:46.880 the worst example of a guy who's not civic-minded or irresponsible or something. Okay, so this is

00:34:51.260 where, this is great. And I'm going to pummel you, Knowles. The moment has come. I was setting you up 0.96

00:34:55.500 I know. Here we go. OK, so the social good that Elon Musk does is not because he went into Doge, which, again, was overall not supremely successful.

00:35:05.080 The overall good that he does is called Tesla and SpaceX. That is the overall good that he does.

00:35:09.980 And this is this is one of the things that, you know, it's interesting.

00:35:12.620 I've been making my way through the vice president's new books. Obviously, he's on a book tour.

00:35:15.560 And so we all got free copies of the book. So thanks to the publisher. Appreciate it.

00:35:19.080 And the vice president takes a position with regard to the meritocracy.

00:35:23.720 The book is largely a refudiation of hillbillyology.

00:35:26.900 It really is kind of fascinating.

00:35:28.160 His book is essentially hillbillyology was me being seduced into the meritocratic secularism

00:35:33.760 of the Yale elite.

00:35:35.360 And then I discovered God and religion again.

00:35:37.660 And now I don't really believe in that stuff anymore.

00:35:39.740 And I really actually much more believe in sort of Catholic social teaching,

00:35:43.280 Rerum Novarum and the rest of it.

00:35:45.000 That really is essentially the theme of the book.

00:35:46.860 And one of the things that he is constantly talking about in the book in, again,

00:35:51.320 almost Tucker Carlson-esque fashion, he has a line in there where he says, we don't work for

00:35:55.860 the economy, the economy works for us, which of course is kind of a bizarre, well, it's a bizarre

00:36:01.280 category error. It's like saying, we don't work for free speech, free speech works for us. I mean,

00:36:05.240 you're talking about a reality in the world that is called a market. And the idea that there ought

00:36:09.020 to be somebody at the top of that market who is legitimately figuring out the best redistribution

00:36:13.780 of wealth and resources is a massive centralized government error. And so I think that when we

00:36:20.260 talk about elon the the resistance to elon's wealth is is driven by a few things one is just

00:36:25.020 pure envy obviously you see this i'm not accusing the vice president of this i think that you're

00:36:28.640 seeing a lot of people who are who are doing me pure envy elon's really rich i'm not as rich as

00:36:32.600 elon i wish i were as rich as elon no one should be as rich as elon unless it were me but really

00:36:37.680 there shouldn't be anyone as rich as elon and you're seeing a lot of that but i do think that

00:36:41.040 there is also a thing where it's like there ought to be some sort of bizarre guilt that that attends

00:36:46.980 to success. That the only way that you can sort of justify high levels of material success is by

00:36:52.400 donating a library. And I just don't think that that's right. I think that the reality of the

00:36:56.220 free markets is that if you actually want to ensure that the cottage is secure, Michael,

00:36:59.540 as you put it, then what you actually need is a free market system. The big problem with

00:37:03.860 societies that have castles and cottages is that they were expropriative, is that you're talking

00:37:09.040 about feudalist societies in which there was literally a fixed pie of wealth and the Lord

00:37:14.420 would come in and take part of the pie. But that's not what you're talking about with a free

00:37:17.620 market. The reason we live better than our ancestors. I agree with a lot of that point.

00:37:21.340 Obviously, the main social good that Elon has done is to create these great innovations and,

00:37:26.480 you know, this great wealth. But he feels a responsibility toward others. And I think,

00:37:30.920 Ben, your example actually kind of makes my point, especially when it comes to free speech,

00:37:34.400 which is that, you know, we don't live for free speech. Free speech is in advance of our society.

00:37:39.760 It's not that you want some fat cat central planner sitting on top. What you want is just

00:37:44.300 ordinary guardrails and putting things in their proper place. So when you go to the guys who

00:37:49.300 really promoted free speech, John Locke, John Milton, John Stuart Mill, for some reason it's

00:37:53.740 a lot of Johns, all of them are pointing out that free speech is for something. It's not an end unto

00:37:58.660 itself, but it's for getting to the truth. This is a dangerous argument. Hold on, hold on. If you

00:38:04.620 want to read the full argument, you can get Speechless, Controlling Words, Controlling

00:38:07.240 Minds, the number one national bestseller available wherever great books are sold. I think it's

00:38:10.260 propping up my desk here. I'm a short leg on my desk. But again, I have other critiques of free

00:38:16.980 speech, but what I'm saying is the guys who actually advanced free speech, all of the

00:38:21.760 classical liberals from whom we get our free speech tradition, those are the arguments that

00:38:25.280 they were making. That's not even just my argument. And so when it comes to social responsibility for

00:38:30.460 the economy, I love JD's new book. I think it's terrific, including when he's talking about the

00:38:36.060 economy, there's this great chapter where he's talking, it's called the dismal science, which is

00:38:40.380 a line that he takes from Thomas Carlyle, the conservative, but even Carlyle is kind of borrowing

00:38:44.900 it from Edmund Burke, you know, the founder of modern Anglo-American conservatism. Edmund Burke

00:38:49.240 decries the transformation of politics, which he says has lost the age of chivalry and the age of

00:38:55.400 economists, sophisters, and calculators has succeeded. And so when you look at an economy,

00:39:00.260 you say, look, obviously we want a lot of economic growth, but it's for something else. And a classic

00:39:05.520 example would be, if we were just serving GDP, well, we could increase GDP by legalizing and

00:39:12.200 prostitution. And then our GDP actually would go up. There would be more measured economic activity,

00:39:17.120 but that would actually be bad for society. And I guess the idea, which is a conservative critique

00:39:21.760 of liberalism going all the way back to Burke and further, is that you can't actually quantify

00:39:26.840 everything. You know, a cynic is one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

00:39:30.400 And so we have to remember, we want all that wealth. We don't want to become commies, 0.75

00:39:33.580 but we need it to be for something good.

00:39:35.680 And we can know the good.

00:39:37.080 And if we can't know something about the good,

00:39:38.980 then we can't have self-government.

00:39:40.960 Okay, so this is a very, very dangerous argument.

00:39:43.840 I agree.

00:39:44.580 Well, take it up with Milton.

00:39:45.840 Don't take it up with me.

00:39:46.660 No, I mean, look, first of all,

00:39:48.220 it's a dangerous argument when applied to free speech

00:39:49.860 because that's an entirely different matter.

00:39:51.560 Those two things don't go together at all.

00:39:54.160 You know, if you are not in charge

00:39:56.260 of what you think and what you say,

00:39:58.060 then guess who is going to be in charge

00:39:59.500 of what you think and what you say?

00:40:00.840 It's going to be Pontius Pilate.

00:40:02.160 Why? Because Rome has all the power. And as someone who was alive when Socrates was poisoned

00:40:06.940 and when Christ was crucified, I can tell you that it never works to give authorities

00:40:11.700 the right to censor your speech. But when it comes to the economy, this is something where

00:40:17.760 I'm closer to Ben on this. I do believe that a society should be able to condemn

00:40:24.640 business practices that are legal but reprehensible. But I don't necessarily believe

00:40:30.560 that that makes them a crime. And I think that that's a really big difference. I think, you know,

00:40:34.760 when the boycott went on against Bud Light for putting that clown on their, that transgender 1.00

00:40:39.680 clown on their product, I thought that was brilliant. I'm 100% in charge of that. But to 1.00

00:40:45.740 have somebody say, oh no, that's illegal because we don't like transgenderism. It's a totally

00:40:49.840 different thing. The free market is a beautiful, beautiful thing. You are right. It is not the

00:40:54.760 measure of good. And if it were the measure of good, then drug deals and prostitution would be

00:41:00.540 OK. But it's outside of crimes. I think it's up to society, up to the culture to condemn

00:41:06.260 wickedness and evil and to and to be allowed in their localities to limit it. So I don't think,

00:41:11.660 for instance, you have a right to open a casino anywhere. But I do think that if a state says

00:41:15.640 we're going to allow the casino to be there, that's a different matter. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

00:41:19.600 I agree with I agree with what Clevin said, but I think there's a broader critique. And Matt will

00:41:23.560 maybe appreciate this this sort of take from from Seoul. So this is a Seoul take on the I think

00:41:29.780 extraordinarily flawed argument that I first saw actually from Yanis Varoufakis, who is a socialist

00:41:34.320 economist, this idea that that, you know, economic statistics can't capture the value of a sunset.

00:41:40.880 OK, this is Burke makes this point. I mean, you saw it in conservatives first.

00:41:44.360 Then, OK, it's wrong. OK, the reason I will say that it's wrong is not because, of course,

00:41:49.640 economics can capture the value of a sunset. But that is a category error. Economics is not trying

00:41:53.700 to tell you how much a sunset is worth. The point is of economics. What are you willing to trade

00:41:58.180 for what? That is literally what economics is about. And so when you say, I'm going to completely

00:42:02.880 elide the question of cost and benefit analysis in public policy because you can't value a sunset,

00:42:07.320 that ignores the fact that we routinely value sunsets. We do it by determining how much we

00:42:11.820 are willing, for example, to pay for light. We determine what we are willing to pay in order to

00:42:16.040 enjoy a sunset on a vacation as opposed to doing it from the back room of our house or apartment.

00:42:21.880 The entire science of economics, it's not a science, but the entire idea of economics is

00:42:26.180 that it's about trade-offs.

00:42:27.080 And so if you would seek to elide the trade-off

00:42:28.660 by pretending that we don't put a value on anything,

00:42:32.200 that most things,

00:42:33.300 so there's an example that J.D. uses in his book

00:42:35.620 that I find particularly absurd

00:42:36.780 from this particular chapter.

00:42:38.380 And the example that he uses is with regard to Japan.

00:42:41.900 And basically, he starts his chapter by saying

00:42:43.920 that people are talking about stagnation

00:42:45.600 of the economy in Japan,

00:42:47.160 which has been a massive problem for Japan

00:42:48.900 for legitimately two decades.

00:42:50.560 If you go back to the 1980s,

00:42:51.760 Michael Crichton was writing books

00:42:52.760 about how Japan was gonna take over the United States.

00:42:54.840 And if you got to the 1990s,

00:42:56.080 the japanese economy plummeted and then just stagnated and it's been stagnating since then

00:42:59.980 i mean literally for 30 years it's been stagnating and he says well i don't believe in economics

00:43:04.200 basically because i went to japan and i tasted their strawberries and i wish i were kidding but

00:43:07.900 i'm not he literally says it's a great strawberries it's a great chapter it's it's uh it's it's one of

00:43:12.740 the worst takes i think i've ever seen uh he he makes the case that because strawberries taste

00:43:16.940 better in japan therefore economics can't measure that strawberries taste better well that's not

00:43:21.980 true. If you have a better tasting strawberry from Japan in the United States, some people

00:43:26.860 will be willing to pay more for that. And actually, if JD had done half a second of research on, for

00:43:30.840 example, Japanese strawberries, the topic that he is writing about, he would understand the reason

00:43:34.700 that strawberries taste better in Japan is because they are a delicacy in Japan. And there is a

00:43:38.440 full scale luxury industry for strawberries in Japan that is designed toward making the best

00:43:43.760 kind of strawberry. So the worst strawberries taste better because in Japan, when you go over 0.95

00:43:48.060 to somebody's house, you don't bring a bottle of wine. You can bring like a hundred dollar basket

00:43:51.760 of strawberries. So in the same way that economics drives toward better quality at lower prices

00:43:56.740 for certain products in the United States, that is also true in Japan. It doesn't mean that

00:44:01.360 economics doesn't work in Japan. That's like making the argument that when you go to Ethiopia,

00:44:05.280 the coffee there is really, really, really good. Therefore, economics can't measure that actually

00:44:09.820 Ethiopia is economically rich and doing great. It is a completely discombobulated argument,

00:44:16.820 and beyond which the entire argument of his book is essentially that Western societies have been

00:44:21.200 secularized and therefore have lost the qualities that make them good and worth and worthwhile and

00:44:26.500 that we need to get back to christianity in order to do that i will just point out that japan is 98 0.99

00:44:30.820 percent shinto and murdered all of the catholic priests who are attempting to go there attempting 0.95

00:44:34.420 to convert everyone so if he likes the strawberries that much maybe he needs the strawberries were

00:44:37.860 great yeah the thing about that chapter though is i i think you're missing the point of it believe

00:44:42.080 it or not i uh you know when he's talking i can't believe you michael i love no i i loved that

00:44:46.880 chapter. And I love the title because, you know, he's going to be pilloried as some left winger or

00:44:51.500 something. But ironically, the argument he's making and the title he's using to do it is the

00:44:57.280 original conservative critique of liberalism. Liberalism, which makes, it's, the issue is not

00:45:04.020 involving economics, obviously. It's making an idol out of economics. So the line that JD mentions

00:45:08.420 about the strawberries is he says, look, you know, if the Japanese are willing to pay $6 for a carton

00:45:13.960 of strawberries, and someone else pays $6 for another carton of strawberries somewhere else,

00:45:18.800 and one carton of strawberries is better than the other, then the market has actually not taken

00:45:25.000 into account the difference between those things. And so it's kind of a silly example. 0.79

00:45:29.020 That's not true. It's not true. It's not true on its most fundamental level. If I went to Japan,

00:45:33.020 I would also pay $6 for the really good strawberries because I'd be in Japan.

00:45:36.820 But the basic point is that the price, $6, doesn't take into account qualitative differences.

00:45:43.660 That's not true.

00:45:44.980 It's in different countries.

00:45:45.900 If I went to Japan and I sold crappy strawberries, I would have to sell them for $3.

00:45:49.760 But if you'll allow me to get to my-

00:45:51.040 It's like a gigantic economic error.

00:45:52.660 If you'll allow me to get to my point, the point, I think we would all agree that a price

00:45:58.440 does not take into account all of the qualitative differences. 0.88

00:46:01.220 If that were the case, then my delicious Mayflower cigar for $17 and hanging out with a hooker

00:46:07.720 on some shady part of town for $17 would be the same thing, but they're qualitatively

00:46:12.320 different.

00:46:12.740 So it's not to action for a lot of economics. 1.00

00:46:14.400 Wait, you know a hooker you can get for $17? 0.97

00:46:15.720 I know. 0.99

00:46:16.200 Well, listen, I'll give you a phone number.

00:46:17.740 I got a great guy.

00:46:19.380 I mean, girl.

00:46:20.080 I got, anyway.

00:46:20.920 Hold on.

00:46:21.360 I'm so glad I came to the show.

00:46:22.780 Go off the rails.

00:46:23.120 Wow.

00:46:23.580 So the point is, like when J.D. says, I realized that economics was all fake, he's obviously

00:46:28.580 exaggerating here.

00:46:29.380 I mean, this is a guy who worked for a venture capital firm.

00:46:31.440 He's obviously not saying that economics itself is fake, but he's making this critique

00:46:35.480 that I think is so important.

00:46:36.960 This is why I don't think it's just a flippant, frivolous example.

00:46:39.060 It is very important, and conservatives from the very beginning of conservatism, like 300 years ago, have recognized that, yes, we want growth, we want trade to a considerable degree, but we can't be putting the cart before the horse.

00:46:51.960 I mean, these are arguments that were being made by George Washington, by Alexander Hamilton.

00:46:56.360 Michael, he's also setting up a massive straw man and then burning it.

00:46:59.160 He's setting up a straw man and then burning it.

00:47:00.360 He's setting up a straw man and then burning it.

00:47:02.280 I think the truth is that Ben agrees with this.

00:47:05.500 He's just so used to the society that has been talked out of that has been talked out of free trade and been talked out of capitalism that he's on the defense of all the time.

00:47:13.900 But you basically agree that, you know, prostitution, no matter how much it makes, is not a good.

00:47:18.620 Nobody's nobody's nobody's even arguing that.

00:47:20.560 The problem is that the J.D.'s argument in that strategy is an argument that proves too much, as with most of his arguments.

00:47:25.680 It's an argument that essentially says there should be limitless capacity for right thinking people to be able to restrict the markets as they see fit in order to achieve social justice.

00:47:34.660 And the only limitation on that, he establishes zero limiting principle.

00:47:39.540 The limiting principle from within Catholic social teaching, which you point out is what the book is about, is subsidiarity, among other things.

00:47:46.360 So there are all these limiting principles that are within it, which are built into our federal system.

00:47:50.240 Michael, that's not a limiting principle.

00:47:51.840 The limiting principle is what he agrees with.

00:47:53.900 And that's not a limiting principle.

00:47:55.620 The limiting principle is subsidiarity, which is built into our government.

00:47:58.780 The idea that decisions are made at the most competent local level possible, that's a limiting principle.

00:48:03.680 Wait, so J.D. is now in favor of San Francisco legalizing prostitution and pot?

00:48:09.280 No, there are obviously limits beyond that as well.

00:48:13.260 And in a deliberative self-government, you obviously try to persuade your fellow citizens.

00:48:17.140 And there are federal laws against pot, at least.

00:48:20.180 We'll see how much longer that goes on.

00:48:22.240 Anyway.

00:48:22.940 Yes, but regardless, first of all, I have to say goodbye to Matt Nuclear. 0.60

00:48:25.560 I'm very excited for you to add even more nuclear fire to this show and to the whole network.

00:48:31.760 So everybody go follow Matt Nuclear.

00:48:33.260 No, I think, look, I don't think you really believe that the vice president or any other conservative who shares his view or someone who believes in Catholic social teaching actually thinks we should have a politburo, you know, and have Stalin dictating the price of strawberries or anything else.

00:48:47.900 I don't think you really believe that.

00:48:50.420 Well, no, I think that what the vice president believes is that he and his friends should determine what the limiting principles are.

00:48:56.720 And I do not like this.

00:48:57.700 my whole point of having general principles of of our of equal applicability is that there should

00:49:03.460 be delegated powers to the government beyond which you cannot go and when he gets to catholic

00:49:07.980 social teaching about economics there are no places where power cannot go there may be prudence

00:49:12.560 that you apply yeah that is a human quality that you apply to a place of no of no actual checks

00:49:17.160 and balances and this is where i start because that is not part of catholic social teaching

00:49:22.460 That really isn't.

00:49:23.180 I mean, you know, you get to JP2 and Chintesi Musanu,

00:49:25.660 which is rewriting, or it's a real fun Ray Ruhm Novarum.

00:49:28.220 Michael, I'm fully aware it's not part of Catholic social teaching,

00:49:31.940 which is why I don't think that Catholic social teaching

00:49:33.560 should be the predicate for American government.

00:49:35.260 No, no, no, I'm saying you're misrepresenting Catholic social teaching.

00:49:38.260 I mean, if you just look at one of the great examples of Catholic social teaching,

00:49:41.640 John Paul II's Chintesi Musanu's, which is a rewriting of Ray Ruhm Novarum,

00:49:44.840 which is where all of this comes from.

00:49:46.000 He extols the virtues of the free market.

00:49:48.360 He just points out that there are also social responsibilities along with it.

00:49:51.460 JP too was, was one of the men who took down communism. So I, I, I think in this limited

00:49:56.460 example, I think you're taking down a straw man here. If, if, uh, I guess the way we'll find out

00:50:00.960 is if JD becomes president and he installs a collectivist politburo and he outlaws strawberries

00:50:06.320 specifically for Ben Shapiro, I will admit I was wrong, but I don't think that's really what he's

00:50:10.340 arguing. Well, I mean, I, I don't think we're going to get you wrong. If it turns out that

00:50:13.880 when he comes in and he, and he decides to outlaw vast swaths of industry, tax vast swaths of

00:50:18.580 industry, redistribute vast swaths of industry all to his particular liking. And that is the

00:50:23.160 platform upon which he runs. Again, when you reject meritocracy on the basis that it's some

00:50:27.560 sort of hoodwinkery, I start to have some very serious problems, especially when the way that

00:50:32.060 you became famous is by participating in the meritocracy in the first place. But enough about

00:50:37.540 JD's book. First, let's talk about, again, entrepreneurship. I'm a fan. Knowles actually

00:50:42.020 is a fan too. The truth is that when Knowles and I argue, it's typically over about three yards of

00:50:46.200 territory on a 100-yard field, but we make it sound like it's about 80 yards. In any case,

00:50:50.360 we both like entrepreneurship, and odds are that you've spent more time on your next marketing

00:50:53.880 campaign than your insurance policy. And honestly, I get it. Nobody, nobody starts a business because

00:50:58.480 they're passionate about coverage limits and policy language. You start a business to build

00:51:01.900 something. That's what it's for. Now, here's the thing. As your business grows, so does your

00:51:05.480 exposure. You hire employees, you expand operations, you take on bigger clients, bigger contracts,

00:51:09.720 every new opportunity, a new risk. That's just reality, which is exactly why I want to tell you

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00:51:57.720 You know, one thing I love is people named Michael, and it's why I'm very pleased to bring on right

00:52:03.040 now, our pal, Michael LaRosa, so we can all beat up some Democrats. Michael, thank you for being

00:52:07.820 here. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me. So we've been mostly focusing on the right so far,

00:52:14.240 because obviously we've got this Iran deal and we've got JD's new book and all this game. We're

00:52:17.960 kind of the ruling party right now. We should remember there are still Democrats. And to Drew's

00:52:22.000 point, they are still trying to come back and they'll probably do very well in the midterms,

00:52:26.160 just historically speaking. So what's the state of play right now? Are the Dems just the party of

00:52:31.440 Graham Plattner now, Nazi tattoos and, you know, abusing women? Or is there any, or is Rahm Emanuel 0.88

00:52:38.100 going to reforge the Dems into a major governing party? Well, I certainly think there have been

00:52:45.280 people on the left who have made it easier for Republicans to call us the party of Graham

00:52:52.380 Plattner or Mumdani. I'm hoping that's not the case. Look, Rahm is my personal favorite. Him and

00:53:01.520 Newsom, I'm big fans of. But I think you hear Rahm. I think Rahm is a sleeper candidate from

00:53:07.600 2028. I think he's talking the way a nominee actually talks. A successful nominee actually

00:53:13.500 talks. I think actually his biggest strength is what some people view as his weakness as an insider.

00:53:20.300 but 99.9% of the country has no idea that he's an insider and really doesn't know who he is

00:53:27.960 and I think when they see and hear that kind of fire in the belly the sort of agility he has

00:53:33.840 sort of fighting him to fight on policy by the way and the way he's talking about issues that

00:53:41.220 matter to the working class I think that's going to really resonate he'd be my he would be someone

00:53:47.280 I'd be happy to see as the nominee.

00:53:50.960 I also, I hate to say it,

00:53:51.900 I'm pretty impressed by Rahm Emanuel.

00:53:53.380 Like, I mean, he'd be a terrible president,

00:53:54.980 but I'm pretty impressed by him.

00:53:56.780 Which part of the motion fire of California

00:53:58.920 makes you a fan of Gavin Newsom?

00:54:01.940 Well, I don't think records matter anymore in politics.

00:54:04.340 If records mattered,

00:54:06.940 J.D. Vance would never have been on the ticket

00:54:08.700 and Donald Trump has changed his mind on so many things.

00:54:11.920 I don't think those things matter anymore.

00:54:13.520 Sure, he has a lot to defend if he's held to account.

00:54:16.480 And if the voters have a really nuanced and complex depth of understanding of regulatory and tax policy, sure, I'm sure there's a lot he'll have to defend there.

00:54:29.200 But I don't know if that actually matters more than his ability to command a stage, to throw punches, to debate.

00:54:38.940 The PR and communications aspect of politics is a little bit more weighted these days, even even for voters.

00:54:47.460 Yeah, Michael, when you look at the 2028 race, you've mentioned Rahm Emanuel, you mentioned Gavin Newsom.

00:54:51.760 The sort of major factor that people keep ignoring in the Democratic primaries is, of course, the outsized weight of the of the black vote in places like South Carolina.

00:55:01.120 It's what is what put Joe Biden over the top against Bernie Sanders.

00:55:03.880 It is what put Hillary Clinton over the top, actually, against Bernie Sanders back in back in 2016.

00:55:08.500 And obviously, it was very, very helpful to Barack Obama.

00:55:10.880 When you look at some of the candidates you're talking about, like a Rahm Emanuel or a Gavin Newsom, is there anyone else that you're looking at who has the capacity to capitalize on the, I believe, 56 percent of the voting population in the Democratic primaries in South Carolina is black?

00:55:28.140 I believe it's a majority and a huge percentage of the South as well.

00:55:31.040 Given the heavy sort of majority minority coalition built by Democrats in these states, what does that mean for a Democratic primary where, again, a lot of their top candidates are white? 0.99

00:55:39.780 but you might get a Wes Moore or Kamala Harris is probably going to run again.

00:55:42.240 What do you make of that?

00:55:44.780 Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong about the coalition, the voting coalition in South Carolina.

00:55:48.640 I think that some of the I think the Clintons had a history with black voters.

00:55:55.500 I think Barack Obama was unique and appealing for black voters for a lot of historic reasons.

00:56:02.560 And I think this could be the first probably open test for South Carolina as a primary state, assuming that the calendar stays, keeps South Carolina front and center.

00:56:18.880 You know, and that's sort of the next big test of the DNC chair is to sort of establish the calendar.

00:56:24.300 That's like one of his only jobs.

00:56:26.180 So we need to see where South Carolina falls in the calendar.

00:56:29.900 Although I'm just not convinced that – and, you know, also Biden had the advantage of having Jim Clyburn come out and endorse us at a very low point in our campaign.

00:56:40.960 That was do or die, to be honest.

00:56:44.560 I don't know if South Carolina is enough for any one nominee.

00:56:48.660 I just don't believe that because of how many states come after it and they sort of vote-rich, delegate-rich populations that come after it.

00:57:02.220 It does raise the question of sort of moderate candidate versus not moderate candidate, which you're bringing up here, which is that actually the South Carolina voters have tended toward the more moderate candidate and a wide variety of presidential primaries for the Democratic Party in the recent past.

00:57:17.600 But the Democratic Party, as you've also been mentioning, is running headlong off a cliff in terms of some of these primary candidates, like a Graham Plattner in Maine or like Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan, really embracing some of the more radical aspects of their own party.

00:57:31.400 How wide is that gap going to open before 2028?

00:57:33.900 What happens to the party if you have, say, AOC declare for the presidency and also a Pete Buttigieg and also a Gavin Newsom?

00:57:40.980 I mean, it's going to be a very crowded field. And and how do you see that back breaking down?

00:57:45.220 Because the nice thing for the radicals is they tend to coalesce around one person.

00:57:49.600 And meanwhile, all of the pseudo moderates tend to fragment a little bit.

00:57:54.520 Yeah. And, you know, based on my last experience in the primary with the Bidens and that in that 2019, the doldrums of 19 and then into those first couple of months.

00:58:06.240 um look i think on ms now and um sort of the progressive podcast echo chamber space

00:58:16.520 i think that the left makes all the noise they are certainly louder at making the noise

00:58:23.660 that's not really where voters in the in a democratic primary nationally were in 2020

00:58:33.560 They were not, you know, the media, the mainstream media was more obsessed with Bernie and Warren and even Buttigieg to an extent.

00:58:45.140 I mean, Warren, Elizabeth Warren got third in her home state of Massachusetts.

00:58:51.100 Bernie really ran for president twice now and couldn't make the case himself for president to Democratic voters in a national competitive primary.

00:59:00.040 So it just feels to me, based on voting behavior across the country in these primaries and the way Democrats set them up, that the silent majority of actual Democratic primary voters really aren't all that interested in what the left is offering.

00:59:20.540 That just hasn't been the case so far. Who knows? Maybe that changes in 2024. It just hasn't been the case yet.

00:59:29.020 So I'm interested to see if that happens. I don't think it will. I also think, as you mentioned, we've got to figure out, and we'll know in a couple weeks, where we are in Michigan, where this Plattner-Mamdani experiment goes in Maine, and we'll certainly see how the Mamdani experiment goes in Maine by November.

00:59:50.160 And I think at that point, we're going to have a better idea on how that wing of the party is going to fare.

00:59:57.880 What do you think? This is a little bit of a data question.

01:00:00.020 Speaking of, sorry, Michael, quick data thing, actually.

01:00:02.360 According to our friends over at CalShare, sponsors at CalShare,

01:00:05.380 Ladner is still favored by 57% of the people who are in that market.

01:00:10.380 Oh, sure.

01:00:11.220 He's down a little bit, but Collins is—

01:00:13.000 And by the way, I bet that doesn't change.

01:00:15.780 And I think that's the uniqueness of Maine.

01:00:20.520 Keep in mind, Maine is the oldest state in the country by medium age.

01:00:24.560 Um, you know, it was really funny hearing a, a credible, you know, sort of legacy mainstream reporter who was telling me he was up there talking to this, um, uh, democratic voter, more of a Bernie bro kind of grandma, as she called herself.

01:00:43.840 loves Bernie, but not an election that goes by where she will not vote for Susan Collins.

01:00:51.340 She is Susan Collins all the way. That woman could do no wrong. And that sort of explains 0.69

01:00:57.440 the gap. The Biden-Collins voter nine points in 2020 that was impossible to poll accurately.

01:01:07.460 So I have no doubt that the polls and the prediction markets will have Plattner and the energy and money will be around him for the next couple of months.

01:01:19.440 But the Collins people are smart.

01:01:22.720 They've done this before and they've been underestimated before.

01:01:26.620 And on Election Day, they had their race 43-42, Collins, and the rest of the country and the rest of the Democratic Party did not.

01:01:38.240 So they know how to do this up there.

01:01:40.620 And she can afford to be outspent three to one and still win by 10 points, apparently.

01:01:45.880 Michael, before I let you go, just one last question.

01:01:48.620 To what degree does woke still matter?

01:01:52.180 And is it an albatross for the libs?

01:01:54.160 We're years past peak woke, and the Dems are trying to run away from it, it seems.

01:01:59.260 But we are constantly hanging these clips calling God non-binary or referring to women as our neighbors with uteruses all around James Tallarico, and it's hard for him to run away from it.

01:02:09.480 Ben did a great job when he went on Gavin Newsom's show of just constantly pinning Newsom back on the trans issue.

01:02:16.560 There was like a Newsom-shaped hole in the wall.

01:02:18.080 He wanted to get as far away from it as he could.

01:02:20.340 To what degree do you think that's still a live issue going into the midterms?

01:02:24.880 It's very much a live issue.

01:02:26.680 And it's very much a live issue.

01:02:28.540 I'm actually surprised that Republicans are, and maybe they will, maybe as we start moving

01:02:34.880 into more TV ad season when all these primaries are set and done, that is the biggest vulnerability

01:02:40.980 in my view for Democrats because they don't, there is no, you will hear lockstep talking

01:02:48.500 points and unity on messaging around the economy, you have no idea what you're going to get when

01:02:55.960 you ask a Democrat officeholder candidate about trans issues. It is the most vulnerable issue

01:03:02.660 because they just don't know how to answer it. And it's shocking to me. I mean, I'm a former

01:03:07.120 NCAA swimmer. There's no way in hell I can tell you that biological men should be competing 1.00

01:03:16.740 in women's sports i i can i can just say that and 90 percent of and the vast majority and i think

01:03:25.260 the vast the silent majority of democrats probably democratic voters feel that way but these my my

01:03:33.680 democratic um you know democrats who i admire a lot in for their abilities and their talents in

01:03:41.040 Congress just tie themselves in nuts trying to find a way to answer that question. And it's so

01:03:47.480 easy. And you'll hear people like a Jason Crow, who probably is very ambitious and very talented

01:03:54.060 and skilled at communicating. He'll say, well, this is so infrequent. This is such a small

01:04:02.320 part of society. Well, if it's so infrequent and it's so small, the portion of people who

01:04:09.200 who actually do compete, or trans who compete in sports, why can't he just say where you stand?

01:04:15.180 That's right. I'm not a former NCAA anything, and I find it very easy to say that too.

01:04:19.200 Michael, wonderful to see you. Thank you very much for coming on. Everybody go follow Michael

01:04:23.400 LaRosa. Then before we go, fellas, can we talk about the daddies a little bit? Can we get a

01:04:29.340 little daddy talking here? I know, I know. We have got to stop talking about stuff like the economy

01:04:34.160 and Iran and stuff like that

01:04:35.720 and really talk about something

01:04:36.840 really talk about something important

01:04:39.800 because there are a lot of people

01:04:41.660 who are going to be in trouble pretty soon

01:04:43.400 and I think we ought to give them a hand

01:04:44.700 Absolutely

01:04:47.520 Father's Day

01:04:49.040 Father's Day is coming

01:04:49.940 I know

01:04:51.520 this is not an awkward ad read at all

01:04:53.720 Father's Day is just a few days away

01:04:56.080 I feel like many of you

01:04:57.660 still have not gotten your dad a gift

01:04:59.120 and this is not self-serving at all

01:05:00.660 but we have ideas

01:05:02.260 No, but you know what I'm here to do? I'm here to read what's written in my prompter, which says that you haven't gotten your dad a gift. And so I know people are going to say, oh, finding a good gift for dad. It's so hard. I have no idea what he wants. It's not hard. Men are simple creatures, okay? We're easy. We want to be informed. We want to be right. We want to be left alone and enjoy both.

01:05:24.820 And we, I know I'm using we, I should have used they.

01:05:28.100 They actually wrote they in the prompter.

01:05:29.680 I changed it, and that's on me.

01:05:31.480 The copywriters did a better job than I did.

01:05:33.920 We can help you with all those things.

01:05:37.360 It's true.

01:05:38.180 So here's the actual pitch.

01:05:39.560 Daily Wire Plus is 45% off right now for both annual memberships and also gift memberships.

01:05:44.040 It is a full year of all of our daily shows, the hit documentaries, the exclusive entertainment you want.

01:05:48.840 There's a lot to enjoy right now, and there is tons more coming.

01:05:51.620 So now would be a perfect chance to buy for your dad.

01:05:54.820 trust us. Look at this face. Can you not trust this face? This is something your dad will like

01:06:01.580 and get value out of. Unlike whatever you were going to go buy him, which sucked. A few days 0.85

01:06:08.440 left. So stop stalling. Go to dailywireplus.com. Use code DAD45 at checkout. And you know what

01:06:16.380 you got to do also, once you do that and you sign up DAD45, you've got to go subscribe to

01:06:21.600 Matt Nuclear. Because regardless, I know there's a variety of opinion on the MOU, whether or not

01:06:27.140 we're even going to get a final deal. But Matt is a nuclear deal we can all agree on. Head on over,

01:06:34.720 subscribe to Matt Nuclear right now. And if you have time, keep subscribing to our show.

01:06:39.320 This is Friendly Fire. We'll see you next time.

01:06:51.600 Thank you.

The Michael Knowles Show - June 17, 2026

Friendly Fire： A Different Kind of Nuclear Deal & Vance's ＂Communion＂ Calculus

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