The Michael Knowles Show - Friendly Fire： Iran War Debate, 2028 Presidential Buzz & Oscars Preview

00:00:00.000 When you let aero truffle bubbles melt, everything takes on a creamy, delicious, chocolatey glow.

00:00:06.320 Like that pile of laundry.

00:00:07.800 You didn't forget to fold it.

00:00:09.220 Nah, it's a new trend.

00:00:10.720 Wrinkled chic.

00:00:12.100 Feel the aero bubbles melt.

00:00:13.900 It's mind bubbling.

00:00:15.200 Who needs enemies?

00:00:16.940 Friends are these.

00:00:18.440 Who needs enemies?

00:00:21.080 Now, Nolan's, why are you asking me?

00:00:22.780 Hot wifing.

00:00:23.460 I've been hot wifing for 50 years, man.

00:00:25.280 No, I don't think you want to, I don't know if you want that clip.

00:00:28.400 It means something else.

00:00:30.080 So I found out, it was in the New York Post, and there was a survey that 71% of kinky couples,

00:00:37.400 so that's a subset, obviously, of couples, 71% say that it helped their marriage to pimp out their wife to other guys.

00:00:45.580 Okay, that's something different than I've been doing.

00:00:47.220 Yeah, that's it.

00:00:48.120 What are the other 30% of kinky couples doing?

00:00:50.600 You know, the other 30% are very wholesome, actually.

00:00:53.300 I'd have to be a little kinky if I could.

00:00:54.480 And, Noles, I'm just wondering, like, why are we doing the Piers Morgan show here?

00:00:57.320 Like, why is that a thing that we're doing now?

00:00:58.900 Yeah, exactly.

00:00:59.000 Hold on.

00:00:59.420 I want to know, what's the new feud going to be this week?

00:01:03.380 Who else are we going to hit?

00:01:04.900 I want to start a feud with Rachel Maddow, because it would be kind of like right in the mirror, you know?

00:01:09.760 Yeah, I mean, I feel like the feud with Piers is actually the stupidest one.

00:01:14.260 That's the dumbest one.

00:01:15.080 I mean, the Piers one, I don't even understand why he's mad.

00:01:17.460 I said that his show is the Jerry Springer of politics.

00:01:19.520 Did you call him a click whore?

00:01:20.060 Did I miss that?

00:01:20.800 Yeah, you called him a click whore.

00:01:21.960 Well, that was after.

00:01:23.560 So I started by saying that he was the Jerry Springer of politics, which he is, and then he admitted online to being.

00:01:29.080 He, like, tweeted out a picture of himself with Jerry Springer and talked about Jerry Springer was great, but he was super pissed about it.

00:01:34.500 Here's the thing that Piers does, because he is indeed a click whore.

00:01:37.700 In fact, he at this point runs an entire click whore house.

00:01:40.800 He is the mad um of the click whore house.

00:01:42.780 He is the best little click whore house in Britain.

00:01:47.340 The best little click whore house in Britain.

00:01:49.440 I know you do, Michael.

00:01:51.280 Listen, you're free to go wherever you want.

00:01:52.960 By the way, I feel like that's a good full-scale demonstration of my point, which is me saying that he's a click whore doesn't mean that I'm saying anybody should not go on his show or that he's being canceled in some way.

00:02:01.940 You're going on his show.

00:02:02.760 It's fine with me.

00:02:03.540 You want to waste your life doing that?

00:02:06.100 I mean, I suppose that you can.

00:02:07.300 We all make our decisions.

00:02:08.440 But he got fake mad about that.

00:02:10.000 Hey, guys, I have to stop you for a minute.

00:02:11.740 Somebody is talking to my ear, and I can't.

00:02:15.340 Drew, that's.

00:02:16.400 He's actually less interesting than you are, which is like kind of a shock to my system.

00:02:20.460 No, Drew, that's just.

00:02:21.720 I know when those voices crop up over the years.

00:02:24.380 He's telling me kill, kill, kill.

00:02:25.780 It's not real.

00:02:27.300 Hey, all right.

00:02:28.080 Should we actually get into the show?

00:02:29.860 So I think we should get into the show.

00:02:32.100 This is Friendly Fire.

00:02:33.460 I'm glad it's finally live.

00:02:35.060 I hate it when it's pre-taped, because when you do the pre-tape of the show, everybody's all tired.

00:02:40.780 Everybody wants you to do the advertisements later.

00:02:43.660 I want to do the advertisements right now.

00:02:45.860 I want you to go to dailywire.com slash shop.

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00:03:00.520 including Ben's latest book.

00:03:03.120 It's a New York Times bestseller, Lions and Scavengers, whatever.

00:03:06.020 Signed copies.

00:03:06.720 Okay, that's fine.

00:03:07.360 More importantly, though, the yes or no game.

00:03:10.340 And you can get the Dating and Relationships expansion pack.

00:03:13.640 Matt is doing whatever.

00:03:14.780 He's got the Leftist Tears dog bowl that's kind of cute, whatever.

00:03:17.300 But you can also get all of my great stuff, the candles and the whole Michael Knowles collection.

00:03:22.320 We have some sweaters.

00:03:23.560 And then also Drew, who is an Edgar Award winner and nominee again, has his new book,

00:03:28.720 A Woman Underground, from his Cameron Winter Mystery Series.

00:03:32.120 It's after that, The Dark.

00:03:33.320 They should be putting it back to me.

00:03:34.280 They didn't update your copy, but after that, The Dark.

00:03:36.600 That's right.

00:03:37.000 I didn't think that was in your book.

00:03:38.700 I am still an Edgar nominee.

00:03:40.020 I have another month until I actually lose, but I'm...

00:03:44.140 Well, you can get 50% off of all of it, all of their stuff, and more importantly, my stuff,

00:03:48.940 the candles and plenty of Leftist Tears tumblers.

00:03:51.400 Go to dailywire.com slash shop right now.

00:03:55.280 Okay, I want to get into, enough about the hot white thing.

00:04:00.440 Tawdry.

00:04:00.940 The tawdry, terrible, tawdry, terrible dealings in podcasting.

00:04:05.820 Yes.

00:04:06.520 Yeah, enough about all this scintillating, the whorehouses we were talking about, whatever.

00:04:10.520 I want to get into the Iran War, and I want to get into the horse race, not just for 2026, but for 2028.

00:04:17.560 Wait, there's a war in Iran?

00:04:18.660 I'm still on the hot wives.

00:04:22.520 I'm sorry.

00:04:23.680 We have a new member of the Daily Wire who's come on over here who's going to run our editorial page,

00:04:29.060 and that is Ben Dominich.

00:04:31.460 Oh, I like Ben Dominich.

00:04:32.760 He's a good guy.

00:04:33.700 Yeah, Ben, do we have Ben?

00:04:36.260 Yeah, I hope so.

00:04:36.900 Mr. Dominich, how are you, sir?

00:04:38.300 Hey, Ben.

00:04:39.520 Hey, I'm doing great and happy to be on the team, and it's going to be interesting.

00:04:43.220 I will say that I was listening to your prior segment, and I didn't anticipate having hot

00:04:48.400 wives be the first thing that we were going to be discussing right off the bat.

00:04:51.700 I would just say anybody who gives you that advice is giving you bad marital advice and

00:04:57.160 wants to steal your wife.

00:04:58.900 It's probably hot for your wife, yeah, if I had to guess.

00:05:01.200 That's true.

00:05:03.040 Speaking of hot conflicts, Ben, I've gone back and forth.

00:05:07.000 I've vacillated here.

00:05:08.100 Ben Dominich and Ben Shapiro, I've vacillated on the Iran War thing.

00:05:12.000 My basic take on it is, had I been on the NSC, just knowing what I know, obviously I'm

00:05:16.560 not privy to classified information, had I been on the NSC, I would have argued against

00:05:20.420 striking Iran, but not because of pacifism, not because of isolationism.

00:05:24.560 I don't think those are serious views.

00:05:26.760 I just think that the risks here are very, very high.

00:05:30.440 I think if the Strait of Hormuz is closed for too long, we're going to have a global

00:05:32.960 recession.

00:05:33.860 I think that things can spiral out of control, and Iran is a real country, unlike some of

00:05:37.640 the other places we operate in.

00:05:38.740 So, I trust Trump, he's the best foreign policy president of my lifetime.

00:05:42.880 He asked for five weeks, I'm willing to give him five weeks, I'll freak out on week six.

00:05:47.020 But things are very, very dicey.

00:05:49.280 Oil already hit $115 a barrel.

00:05:52.720 At what point do we start saying maybe this might not be great?

00:05:56.880 Mr. Dominich?

00:05:57.520 Well, I think that there are a lot of people who are saying that privately in Republican

00:06:02.380 circles right now already, particularly those who want to run on domestic issues and were

00:06:08.000 kind of feeling like there were some silver linings in the economy, that people were starting

00:06:12.180 to see the benefits of the tax policies that they passed, that they were going to have a

00:06:17.480 better experience when it came to their tax bill this year, and that they hoped that they

00:06:22.020 would be able to prevent the kind of historical trend that we have normally seen in these

00:06:27.140 midterm elections.

00:06:28.880 Personally, I think that was a lost cause to begin with.

00:06:31.640 I don't think that they really have any hope of holding on to the House.

00:06:35.220 But I do think that a lot of them are now pointing to this decision as something that's

00:06:38.620 making them even more nervous, particularly because, as you know, voters don't get moved

00:06:43.000 by foreign policy the way that, you know, the president necessarily is in this second

00:06:47.080 term, where he's paying so much attention to resolving all conflicts, you know, ending

00:06:51.480 all family business all around the world.

00:06:53.880 And I think that there's inherent risk with that, that domestically Republicans are nervous

00:06:58.680 about.

00:07:01.160 Ben Shapiro, you're like, you're the most pro.

00:07:04.680 I'm extremely pro what he's doing.

00:07:06.320 Yeah, well, what Trump is doing is the bravest foreign policy decision of my lifetime.

00:07:09.580 If the Iranian regime falls, it's the biggest thing to happen in geopolitics.

00:07:12.840 Since the fall of the Soviet Union.

00:07:14.240 Yep.

00:07:14.480 And so I think that what people, you know, ought to set up beforehand is sort of their

00:07:19.700 set of what would make them think that the war was a success and at what cost.

00:07:24.520 I think that once we have those sort of presets in the system, it's easy to have a conversation

00:07:28.140 about whether we think that we're going to achieve those things or not.

00:07:30.780 So what the administration has set as the goal are ending the ballistic missile threat

00:07:34.540 from Iran, ending the nuclear threat from Iran and destroying the Iranian Navy.

00:07:39.140 The Iranian economy is already nothing to speak of.

00:07:42.060 It basically does not exist at this point.

00:07:44.480 And if you're judging by sort of what we've accomplished already, basically all three of

00:07:48.540 those things are very nearly accomplished.

00:07:50.560 The ballistic missile threat has been basically taken down to almost zero.

00:07:54.120 The threat of the Iranian nuclear program has been set back probably decades at this point.

00:07:58.600 I don't think that either the United States or the Israelis are going to finish this up

00:08:02.380 before that threat is completely vitiated.

00:08:04.720 And if you're talking about the Iranian Navy, it doesn't exist.

00:08:06.580 It's at the bottom of the Strait of Hormuz.

00:08:08.400 So then the question becomes, is the real goal here regime change?

00:08:11.660 And then the question is sort of like, what's the timeline?

00:08:14.240 So if the war ends and the regime is still in place, but so weak that basically one tap

00:08:19.340 by the Iranian population and six months later, it's a different regime.

00:08:22.140 Not only was this a successful war in the moment, it is the most successful military decision

00:08:26.960 of the modern era.

00:08:28.160 If it turns out that the Iranian regime kind of holds on, kind of is able to rebuild, still

00:08:32.760 has some level of control over the Straits of Hormuz, then obviously that's a problem,

00:08:36.460 which is why I don't think Trump is going to do that.

00:08:38.080 I think that the next move by the Trump administration will be to secure all the areas around the

00:08:43.140 Strait of Hormuz, make sure that the Strait of Hormuz can't be closed.

00:08:46.240 It is pretty certain in my view that sometime in the next week, you will start seeing the

00:08:49.740 United States Navy moving along with oil tankers through the Straits of Hormuz to protect

00:08:53.780 those oil tankers.

00:08:54.600 We did this in the late 80s and we can do it again.

00:08:56.940 And if that is what has happened here, the tremendous weakening of the Iranian regime,

00:09:01.600 the destruction of their forward capacity and the possibility that they're going to

00:09:04.620 shatter, then it is an unbelievably successful decision.

00:09:07.880 And I have to say the impatience of the American people, and I won't say the American people

00:09:11.620 because I don't think the American people are actually impatient.

00:09:13.660 The impatience of some people in the commentariat is insane.

00:09:17.780 I mean, legitimately insane.

00:09:19.120 We are two weeks into this thing and we have suffered, yes, casualties, but those casualties

00:09:23.620 are obviously by historical standards, very small compared to other conflicts.

00:09:28.440 And you're talking double digits.

00:09:29.980 And when I say double digits, I mean like very low double digits.

00:09:32.340 I believe the total number of deaths to this point in time is 13 in this conflict.

00:09:36.880 Every one of those people is absolutely incredibly valuable to us.

00:09:40.060 But if you're going to compare foreign policy adventurism to past sort of conflicts, that doesn't

00:09:45.440 even chart, and if you're talking about the length and duration, I have cottage cheese

00:09:49.260 in my fridge that is older than this war.

00:09:52.520 And so this idea that this is like an endless war, Joe Rogan was like, every war is an endless

00:09:55.740 war.

00:09:56.080 Well, no, not every war is an endless war.

00:09:58.640 And so I think everybody should sort of put out there what they think the biggest risks

00:10:01.880 are and how likely those risks are to occur and what the biggest benefits are and how likely

00:10:05.340 those benefits are to occur.

00:10:06.120 I can tell you what I think the big risk is.

00:10:07.760 And I think, first of all, I agree with you, Knowles, that I trust Trump on this, not so much

00:10:13.200 because he's an expert of foreign policy, but because he hates war.

00:10:16.160 He doesn't want there to be wars.

00:10:17.540 And so that's the way I want people to feel when they, you know, if we could have presidents

00:10:21.360 who didn't want to be presidents, that's the guy I'd vote for.

00:10:23.620 But we can't have that.

00:10:24.500 But we can have wars waged by people who don't want to be in war.

00:10:27.700 And that's what Trump is like.

00:10:29.060 And I trust him that we had to go in.

00:10:31.260 I think Witkoff's testimony, basically, that they were actually building a nuclear weapon,

00:10:36.680 that they were that close, is just very convincing to me.

00:10:39.860 The Strait of Hormuz, I mean, you can mine the Strait of Hormuz with a rowboat.

00:10:42.980 So we're never going to break the Iranian Navy to the point where they can't drop a mine

00:10:48.300 into the Strait.

00:10:50.240 But I think the timeline is this.

00:10:53.420 I think the timeline is whether or not we are going to lose the government entirely to

00:10:58.400 the left.

00:10:59.220 The left in this country is a major, major danger.

00:11:01.880 This is the place.

00:11:02.580 I think our interests right now and Israel's interests in the Venn diagram are very close

00:11:06.600 together.

00:11:07.120 But there comes a point when Israel's tactical interests, which I would think would be getting

00:11:11.320 rid of this regime entirely.

00:11:13.020 And I would love to see that.

00:11:14.200 I think that's a great thing.

00:11:14.980 And our interest, which is maintaining some kind of chance for us to keep the presidency

00:11:20.420 away from people who butcher children sexually, who think that George Floyd is an angel instead

00:11:26.760 of a thug, who hate this country and are willing to open up its borders to all our enemies.

00:11:31.140 I think at some point the politics of this, unfortunately, gets in the way of the mission.

00:11:35.540 But I don't think that point is anywhere reached.

00:11:38.220 And this is where Ben is absolutely right.

00:11:39.860 This whole thing about the forever war that's been going on for 20 minutes is absurd.

00:11:44.880 I mean, it's just absurd.

00:11:46.000 This has been a very, very successful venture.

00:11:48.440 They're doing a great job.

00:11:49.760 They've completely obliterated their military force.

00:11:52.760 And I just think that we have to hang on and let Trump be the—we're letting him be

00:11:57.300 the judge of when to go in.

00:11:58.480 We've got to let him be the judge of when to go out, because I do not think he wants

00:12:01.500 a war that goes on for eight months.

00:12:04.160 It's just not going to happen.

00:12:05.640 On the point of the domestic political issues—

00:12:09.160 There's a risk here that I think, if I can interject, and this is friendly fire, and it's

00:12:15.160 my first time, so I don't know if I'm being rude by doing so.

00:12:18.040 We just beat you.

00:12:18.820 I actually think the biggest risk here is that that commentariat gets listened to by

00:12:24.380 the president, who does have people on his team who are going to echo their thoughts.

00:12:28.740 That's basically what's happening right now.

00:12:30.360 They're trying to work the refs, they're working from outside against this argument.

00:12:34.400 And look, the policy of the United States of America toward the nation of Iran has been

00:12:38.440 pretty set for a pretty long time.

00:12:40.420 It was Barack Obama who broke it in the approach that he used that was just the mad—the most

00:12:46.600 crazy thing in the world.

00:12:48.660 There's still—the fact that there's still people around who defend it, I mean, it just

00:12:51.540 boggles my mind, especially the Pod Save Bros, Pod Save Iran.

00:12:54.500 The thing that I think is a risk here is that if that commentariat prevails, the opportunity

00:13:01.380 here is to turn to China as something like an interlocutor with the regime, to basically

00:13:07.960 say, hey, we don't want to see these missiles flying around the Gulf states.

00:13:12.400 They don't want to see these things flying around the Emirates.

00:13:14.340 They don't want to have to deal with this type of stuff in the future.

00:13:17.660 We have a vested interest because of our relationship with Iran.

00:13:20.900 Let us do some kind of a deal or an arrangement that allows that type of scenario that Mr.

00:13:26.880 Shapiro, Ben—I can say Ben—is making note of, which would allow that regime to basically

00:13:35.060 hold on to power and would also, frankly, strengthen China's role in the area.

00:13:40.860 That's the biggest thing that I'm concerned about, if those interlocutors get their way,

00:13:44.480 and they will not like the long-term ramifications of that.

00:13:47.240 There's something else here, and that is that, Drew, you drew one timeline, which is

00:13:50.880 we've got to end this thing before it starts affecting the presidential election.

00:13:53.980 Obviously, I agree, and the American people agree with that.

00:13:56.160 All the polls show that if this is a short war, Americans are fine with it.

00:13:58.780 If it's a midterm war, they're pretty split.

00:14:00.320 And if it's a very long war, they're against.

00:14:01.780 I mean, join the club.

00:14:03.440 Who's in favor of a long war?

00:14:05.620 Not a ton of people.

00:14:07.160 But there is one other timeline, and that is President Trump laid this one out, and

00:14:10.760 he is totally right about this.

00:14:12.420 In three years, he will not be the president anymore.

00:14:15.280 And when he is not the president, whether the person who follows him is a Republican or Democrat,

00:14:18.520 that person is not going to have anything like the balls that he is currently demonstrating

00:14:22.040 with regard to going after Iran.

00:14:24.580 And so you don't want to be in a position in three years where Iran is reascendent, where

00:14:29.240 you have a coward in the presidency in the form of a Democrat or even somebody from the

00:14:33.300 horseshoe right.

00:14:34.180 And that person is then making overtures to the Iranian government.

00:14:37.060 You have to go do this again, or you don't do it at all.

00:14:39.360 And now Iran is sort of back in the driver's seat.

00:14:41.820 And so his perspective on this, which I think is 100% right.

00:14:45.000 And I think, honestly, it's why it's kind of politically heroic.

00:14:46.960 It's not political heroism if you do the popular thing.

00:14:49.560 It's politically heroic if you do the thing that you actually don't think has to do with

00:14:54.140 your poll numbers.

00:14:55.000 You're just doing the thing that has to be done.

00:14:56.960 And what the president is doing right now is doing the thing that has to be done.

00:14:59.520 Because, again, I think all four of us, regardless of where we are on the current conflict, agree.

00:15:03.980 If the Iranian regime were to fall, it would be a moment of such great geopolitical image.

00:15:09.520 It would be legitimately unbelievable, not just for the region, but for the world, because

00:15:14.160 you're talking about the linking factor between, for example, China and Russia.

00:15:17.340 You're talking about the lead progenitor of terrorism on planet Earth.

00:15:20.160 If that regime were to fall because President Trump was the only one with the stones to actually

00:15:24.080 just punch them in the face repeatedly until they gave up, if that were to happen, or if

00:15:27.920 this were to be, again, the predicate to some sort of uprising in Iran, where you get something

00:15:32.220 other than what is, and that something is just anything other than an even harder line,

00:15:37.760 resurgent Iranian regime.

00:15:39.160 Then I don't know how you can count this as anything other than an act of tremendous political

00:15:43.240 bravery by the president.

00:15:45.540 And so the political consideration for me is twofold.

00:15:47.580 One is sort of like who gets elected, and that obviously is very important.

00:15:50.500 The other is on a downside risk mitigation basis.

00:15:54.320 I'm very worried that a Democrat gets elected in 2028.

00:15:56.860 Do I want an Iran run by the Ayatollahs with more ballistic missiles, more nuclear capacity,

00:16:02.580 and a bigger navy with a Democratic president?

00:16:05.020 Or would I like for the president of the United States to stomp on a round like a bug while

00:16:08.620 he has a chance?

00:16:09.520 Sure.

00:16:10.020 The issue is if missions were horses, beggars would ride.

00:16:13.100 You know, I think we all agree on the ifs here.

00:16:15.900 But, you know, to get back to Drew's point on domestic politics, the New York Times was

00:16:20.100 breathless.

00:16:20.860 They were overjoyed to report that this is the least popular war at launch that we've

00:16:26.380 ever had in American history.

00:16:27.600 Yeah, but it's gotten more popular than it's going along.

00:16:29.820 Yes, exactly right.

00:16:30.860 You know, World War II starts at 97%.

00:16:34.340 Libya, even Libya was higher than this one.

00:16:37.300 The Iraq War and the Afghanistan War were higher than this one.

00:16:39.460 So you have a lot of people who had a lot of trepidation about this war.

00:16:43.860 The domestic issue is going to get worse if the strait remains closed for a long time.

00:16:49.320 If gas prices go up, that's going to cause food prices to go up even further.

00:16:53.160 You already have people feeling that the economy is precarious.

00:16:55.860 This with all of the problems in the midterm elections.

00:16:58.740 And so, you know, I totally agree.

00:17:02.220 And this is where I think the isolationists or the pacifists are just not making anything

00:17:07.320 resembling a serious argument here.

00:17:09.220 But this is where people are getting a little bit too rosy.

00:17:12.300 If we can swap out the Iranian regime, then wonderful.

00:17:17.580 You know, that has been part of the U.S. grand strategy since 1953.

00:17:21.860 All right.

00:17:22.600 And it's a great fulfillment.

00:17:24.000 And Trump clearly has the stones to do it.

00:17:25.980 Now, maybe it implies the fact that he's willing to go in in a way that's so unpopular that

00:17:31.120 could really screw up the midterms.

00:17:32.640 Maybe that implies that he's already kind of written off the midterms.

00:17:35.060 You know, the Republicans have a one vote majority in the House.

00:17:38.040 Probably, you know, odds are we're going to lose it anyway.

00:17:40.620 So why not do some legendary stuff, go down in the history books in the meantime?

00:17:44.380 That's all great.

00:17:45.180 I'm not convinced of that.

00:17:46.200 I'm actually not convinced we're going to lose the midterms.

00:17:48.500 I think that it's a great chance.

00:17:50.620 I'm not going to say we're going to win it.

00:17:52.700 But I think there's still a chance it's an open question.

00:17:55.160 And look, I think you have to balance the enthusiasm.

00:17:58.500 We all would love to see this regime fall.

00:18:00.700 It is a nonsense.

00:18:01.540 But there's this thing, there's this pansy factor in America now.

00:18:05.120 The technical term for it, the pansy factor, where people just become hysterical over nothing.

00:18:11.700 And it's stoked by the press.

00:18:12.900 I mean, the last time I, I don't drive much because I don't have to, but I, I, the last

00:18:17.400 time I tanked up my car about a week and a half ago, gas was 280 a gallon, which is nothing.

00:18:22.620 Now it's all the way up to where it was three years ago when I don't remember everybody getting

00:18:26.740 hysterical about it, you know?

00:18:28.020 So this is kind of this engineered hysteria.

00:18:31.000 I agree with this.

00:18:31.880 I mean, look at the price of Brent oil right now.

00:18:34.840 Yeah.

00:18:35.100 The Iranians were saying it was going to 150 or 200 a barrel.

00:18:38.780 It went back down again.

00:18:38.980 It went up to 115, you mentioned, Michael, and then it went back down again and it's

00:18:41.820 been hovering around 100 ever since.

00:18:43.620 Actually, on the week, it's slightly down from where it was all the way on Sunday.

00:18:46.120 But there is a danger here.

00:18:47.400 There is a danger of temptation.

00:18:49.000 I think because of the long wars that the Bush administration fought and fought badly

00:18:53.620 and because of our entrenchment in those places and the sense that we didn't get

00:18:56.860 anything out of it in the long run, you know, people are not going to want to see

00:19:00.360 our guys go marching in there, even if that's the only way we can overturn the regime.

00:19:04.580 There's always a question of whether you can overturn a regime with air power.

00:19:08.520 I mean, it's not the normal thing, you know, I mean, unless you're going to drop an atom

00:19:13.140 bomb on them, it's very hard to overturn a regime.

00:19:15.580 Now, look, the Israelis are in there and they may go in and, you know, we've heard about

00:19:18.820 the Kurds going in and all of that stuff.

00:19:20.760 So it could happen.

00:19:21.880 But I think a major engagement where we get tangled up in there is more of my government

00:19:28.020 than I want to give away to the left.

00:19:30.000 You know, I'd love to see it happen.

00:19:31.680 But that's my problem.

00:19:32.600 I don't think anybody's talking about that, including the president, which is why, again,

00:19:36.140 a Trump war is different than a Bush war.

00:19:37.480 But, you know, Dominic had a great piece on this that that he early on where he basically

00:19:41.780 said, you know, everybody wants to look at the poll numbers like Michael was looking

00:19:44.380 at the poll numbers.

00:19:45.120 And instead of me just quoting Dominic, I'm going to actually ask him to to explicate

00:19:48.800 what he was saying.

00:19:49.320 I think that it is the right point, which is it turns out Americans just don't like

00:19:54.260 losing mostly.

00:19:55.840 Yeah.

00:19:57.080 Yeah.

00:19:57.440 I think and thank you for saying that I think that this is a situation where one of the

00:20:03.380 lessons I think people haven't learned, particularly politicians, is that this long, drawn out

00:20:08.700 case for war that we have seen made in the past is just not something that the American

00:20:14.360 people actually want or necessarily need anymore.

00:20:17.580 I actually think that they assess things entirely based on success.

00:20:21.620 The Maduro rate is a perfect example of this in the sense that it was there was tons of

00:20:26.480 skepticism about what we were doing in Venezuela in various poll questions leading up to that

00:20:31.460 decision.

00:20:32.080 And then after it happened, everybody basically said, oh, yeah, I was always in favor of that.

00:20:36.180 And the reverse happens when you look back at the Iraq war, where there's tons of people

00:20:39.580 who pretend that they were opposed to it.

00:20:41.380 So I think that part of the thing that's going on here, though, is that we are dealing with

00:20:45.440 the president, as Andrew said, that has different priorities.

00:20:49.020 And I think that the number one thing that he assesses this on, I believe, is the loss

00:20:54.020 of American life.

00:20:55.000 The loss of American life is not something that he wants to see.

00:20:57.820 He does.

00:20:58.380 He has this very visceral attitude towards risking American life.

00:21:03.320 And there have even been stories, not ones that I've been able to run down, though some

00:21:07.100 other journalists have claimed that they have, that he kept going back to the Pentagon when

00:21:12.560 it came to reworking that Maduro raid in order to get the number lower and lower and lower

00:21:17.460 in terms of the risk to American lives, because he didn't want to lose anybody.

00:21:22.000 And so I think that when it comes to this war, people who are concerned about American

00:21:25.600 troops having to go in on the ground, I think the president will be incredibly hesitant to

00:21:30.080 do that.

00:21:30.420 He is trying to do something with air power that isn't traditionally achieved.

00:21:33.080 And we will need additional work by the Israelis, I think, in order to achieve it in a real

00:21:37.940 sustained way.

00:21:39.020 But that fact gives me a lot of optimism about this moment and with this president, when I

00:21:44.840 am probably, you know, historically the most war skeptical of, you know, many of the people

00:21:49.480 who are part of Daily Wire.

00:21:51.160 And that is, you know, born again out of, I believe, sort of a naivete that we had in

00:21:56.400 the past.

00:21:56.920 I don't think the president has that naivete.

00:21:59.060 I think he wants to get this done.

00:22:00.500 He wants to get it settled.

00:22:01.400 And he does not want it to be the kind of thing that he is asked about after his presidency.

00:22:05.420 Do you wish you had handled this differently?

00:22:07.160 Well, we'll get to more in this in one second.

00:22:08.740 First, if you appreciate our live news coverage, head on over to dailywire.com slash subscribe.

00:22:13.360 Become a member today because then we'll be your best friends.

00:22:15.260 Let's be real about this.

00:22:16.360 Okay.

00:22:16.540 Like we, you, you, you guys, you're our acquaintances.

00:22:19.740 We like you.

00:22:20.380 That's fine.

00:22:20.820 But you can't be best friends with us unless, and Knowles is a really, really strong friend.

00:22:26.260 I'm less so as it turns out, but Michael Knowles actually is very into the friendship and

00:22:30.660 you can be Michael's best friend.

00:22:32.040 Drew is a pretty good friend.

00:22:33.360 I think Dominic is a pretty good friend.

00:22:35.180 You can be best friends with all of these people and more of our hosts, including Matt

00:22:38.380 Walsh, who actually is shockingly friendly in person.

00:22:41.340 He would not want me to say that, but you also get breaking news, investigative reporting,

00:22:45.480 ad-free, uncensored daily shows.

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00:22:58.340 Become a member right now.

00:23:03.240 Michael, you want to jump back in there?

00:23:05.300 I don't.

00:23:05.820 Well, okay.

00:23:06.240 Have we figured out Iran?

00:23:07.820 If we figured out Iran, then I do want to move on to a topic that actually, I guess it

00:23:13.080 pertains to Iran or some foreign policy disputes around it, which is the horse race for 2028.

00:23:18.800 You know, we don't know what's going to happen with the midterms.

00:23:22.000 There's the kind of fringe view that Trump has just written it off and he's just going

00:23:26.860 to do gangster legendary stuff.

00:23:28.720 And, you know, then Democrats will get subpoena power, then he'll get impeached, and then who

00:23:33.020 knows what, maybe he gets convicted, then maybe J.D.

00:23:35.160 Vance becomes the president just automatically.

00:23:37.560 He's probably the insurance policy on that happening.

00:23:39.240 Okay, whatever.

00:23:41.000 As it stands right now, the president has basically endorsed J.D.

00:23:45.240 Vance and Marco Rubio as a ticket in 2028.

00:23:48.720 Rubio has basically endorsed Vance as the top of the ticket in 2028.

00:23:52.620 It all looks good until it doesn't.

00:23:56.880 And so there are a lot of people who I think are trying to stoke some division in the Trump

00:24:00.100 admin.

00:24:00.900 Obviously, we know Rubio wants to be president.

00:24:02.800 He ran for it the first time that Trump was running in 2016.

00:24:05.580 So there's this question, will Rubio turn on J.D., run for the office?

00:24:10.620 Will Trump turn on J.D. and endorse Rubio?

00:24:13.460 There have been some rumors about donor conversations or whatever.

00:24:16.700 Will there be an outsider?

00:24:18.820 Will someone from the Senate or from a governor's house, will they come in and be 2028?

00:24:24.580 Or is this all idle, stupid speculation two years out that means absolutely nothing?

00:24:29.720 Well, of course, yes, of course it's that.

00:24:31.540 I think that that is absolutely the case.

00:24:34.100 But look, I think we have to talk about this.

00:24:36.140 And it almost cuts me off every time I say this because he's so ashamed of himself.

00:24:39.340 We have to talk about Tucker Carlson.

00:24:40.700 Why do we have to talk about that?

00:24:42.860 Yes, why do we have to?

00:24:43.720 Because he's a demon-infested Nazi.

00:24:45.840 And I think that if Dan's attaches himself to him, he's going to drag him underwater like

00:24:50.080 an anchor tied to his leg.

00:24:52.020 And I think that, you know, this is the thing.

00:24:54.080 I've been yelling at both you guys off camera.

00:24:56.420 I want to yell at you on camera.

00:24:57.820 I mean, first of all, Knowles, it's time for you.

00:24:59.880 You're a Catholic.

00:25:00.520 It's time for you to fight the demons.

00:25:01.940 When people are infested with demons, whether they're Candace Owens or Tucker Carlson, they're

00:25:05.940 the bad guys.

00:25:06.600 I mean, they're not right-wingers anymore.

00:25:08.200 They're not our friends.

00:25:08.940 And it's time to say they're bad guys.

00:25:10.980 And Shapiro, if I could strangle you and keep you alive, because I love you, I don't want

00:25:15.620 to kill you, but if I could just strangle you a little bit, I would.

00:25:18.440 Because we can't spend our time yelling at clowns like Pierce Morgan.

00:25:23.640 Oh, that's unfair.

00:25:24.540 That's unfair.

00:25:25.280 First of all, I absolutely can't.

00:25:26.800 Who's hitting you?

00:25:28.200 It's so fun.

00:25:28.840 I know.

00:25:29.160 I'm glad to hear that.

00:25:30.180 I mean, okay.

00:25:30.760 So first of all, just to be clear.

00:25:32.420 Hold on, wait.

00:25:32.600 Can I respond?

00:25:33.280 He brought up the demon thing and whatever.

00:25:34.920 I just want to make my point on this.

00:25:36.220 You have exorcists on your show notes.

00:25:37.780 Yeah, hold on.

00:25:38.020 It's time to put them to use.

00:25:39.860 I'd like to make a point in defense of not engaging in the podcaster wars.

00:25:45.700 And my defense is this.

00:25:46.800 One, I've been very clear about what I think about all of these issues.

00:25:49.640 Whether we're talking about Iran, whether we're talking about Erica Kirk, whether we're

00:25:53.820 talking about anything in between.

00:25:55.180 I've been very clear about what my point of view is.

00:25:56.960 And I've said that people are wrong specifically when I think that they've been wrong.

00:26:00.800 However, I think it is helpful, one, to engage with as much charity as one can possibly engage

00:26:06.320 in and all of these things.

00:26:07.500 And two, I think that the podcaster wars are deeply counterproductive.

00:26:12.620 I think even if you want to take friendship and personal affection, all that out of it,

00:26:16.220 it seems to me that if the objective of the podcaster wars is to, you know, talk about

00:26:21.580 how evil and terrible everybody is, the only meaningful objective to that, other than stating

00:26:26.320 your own position, which everyone has clearly done, is to try to reduce their reach or get

00:26:32.060 people to stop listening to them or get them to be less influential.

00:26:35.100 None of that has worked.

00:26:36.500 Everyone that has been named and many who have not been named are more influential than ever,

00:26:40.420 more popular than ever.

00:26:41.540 And so it seems to me that the better strategy is to focus on the real politics rather than

00:26:46.960 what I think is the vice of new media and independent podcasting.

00:26:50.380 I've been here for 15 minutes and already you're knocking my hobbies.

00:26:54.060 I mean, this is...

00:26:54.900 Look, I know, we all do it.

00:26:56.720 It's a temptation for me.

00:26:57.840 This is only half true, though.

00:27:00.240 This is not...

00:27:01.280 This is...

00:27:02.000 There's a serious aspect of this, and then there's one that is actually very fun.

00:27:06.340 And I resent the idea that making fun of Pierce Morgan is something that is out of balance

00:27:12.360 because it's just too much fun to do.

00:27:14.400 But here's the thing.

00:27:15.900 What you are getting at is something that I think is important, which is that we shouldn't

00:27:19.080 allow these wars, which I believe are fun to fight and good to fight, arguments that are

00:27:24.840 worth having.

00:27:25.780 And if only, by the way, to show that the other side of it often does not have any willingness

00:27:30.640 to argue or debate or actually deal with any of the ramifications of the things that

00:27:35.200 they're saying, which tells you enough.

00:27:37.300 But I also think that we have to make sure that there's some balance there.

00:27:40.740 You can't only be about the podcast wars because that's like being...

00:27:45.640 That's like only watching Bravo for the Real Housewife reunions.

00:27:49.540 Like, it's just not...

00:27:50.580 It is not the best use of your time or good for your mental health, even if you can talk

00:27:55.960 about it for weeks on end.

00:27:57.440 And so that's the thing that I think we need to just have some perspective on it.

00:28:00.760 But the podcast wars actually are representative on some point...

00:28:03.880 At some point of different sides within these arguments that are taking place.

00:28:07.400 I just think that they are often...

00:28:08.580 That's my question.

00:28:09.800 But I think they are often used by the enemies of the right to be much bigger deals than

00:28:14.980 they actually are.

00:28:16.380 But they are when you're going after evil people.

00:28:18.400 When you start to go after people who don't go after evil people, then you have to go

00:28:21.740 after the people who don't go after the people who don't go after the evil people.

00:28:24.620 Then you've got a cancerous situation.

00:28:26.560 And I think it's really damaging.

00:28:27.880 I mean, so I agree with that.

00:28:29.520 But I think that there's a difference between doing that and doing an actual defense of the

00:28:33.460 people who are evil, which is a thing that has happened.

00:28:36.340 And attacking people who defend those who are evil is a thing that I think is worthwhile.

00:28:39.960 And as far as sort of the matrix that you're setting up here, Michael, frankly, I think

00:28:42.780 it's a catch-22.

00:28:43.520 Because the basic idea that you've set up is that if you say nothing about them, that's

00:28:47.360 because they're very powerful, they're not going away.

00:28:48.940 And also, if you say something about them, it's because they're very powerful and they're

00:28:51.520 not going away.

00:28:52.040 No, I don't think it's because they're powerful.

00:28:53.520 I also think that's different.

00:28:54.680 Just to clarify my point here, I think that the podcaster wars are not a real political phenomenon.

00:28:59.880 Basically, even just looking at the polling, basically all the movement conservative activist-based

00:29:05.500 types still support Trump, basically support Vance and Rubio, basically support the same

00:29:09.980 policies.

00:29:10.900 They're a little divided on Iran.

00:29:12.420 And I think that the podcast wars are a meta-political phenomenon about all sorts of crazy things

00:29:18.340 like aliens and the occult and weird alternative history.

00:29:22.480 And that it basically is just an attention grab for everybody to grab audience diverging

00:29:29.580 away from the political objective, which is to bring voters together in a coalition.

00:29:34.120 Well, okay, so here is the problem.

00:29:36.340 Okay, let's be very clear about the problem that has now emerged on the right.

00:29:39.600 There are multiple wings that are sort of arguing for the future of the right.

00:29:43.300 One of those wings is led by people like Tucker and Candace.

00:29:47.500 Okay, that is a reality.

00:29:48.780 And pretending that that is not a reality doesn't make it not...

00:29:50.960 Maybe, I don't really buy it.

00:29:51.500 Well, I mean, I don't believe that you don't even buy it.

00:29:53.680 I don't buy it.

00:29:54.340 I mean, first of all...

00:29:55.880 I think the wings are led by J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio, if we're even going to call

00:29:59.380 them wings.

00:29:59.980 I don't think it's the podcast.

00:30:01.220 We've got to get an ejector seat on this guy.

00:30:03.380 I mean, well, first of all, let's...

00:30:04.420 Okay, that's fine.

00:30:06.180 But then it does beg the question as to why the vice presidents of the United States

00:30:09.540 keep ushering Tucker Carlson into the White House in quite visible fashion while

00:30:13.600 Tucker Carlson is doing many of the things that he is doing.

00:30:16.360 The vice president has plenty of friends.

00:30:18.140 The idea that Tucker is his only friend, I think, is dishonest.

00:30:20.740 And this defense is not going to work for one second of one day.

00:30:27.320 It is not going to.

00:30:29.120 When Barack Obama was running for high office, everybody on the right correctly pointed out

00:30:32.900 that his pastor was Jeremiah Wright.

00:30:34.280 This notion that people's associations, close personal associations, people who help make

00:30:40.000 them vice president, that that has no impact on how people see them is obviously untrue.

00:30:44.580 And when we talk about the sort of growth of particular ideas on the right, pretending

00:30:49.380 that, for example, young Republicans, young conservatives are not being infected with

00:30:53.200 some pretty bad ideas by the people online is ignoring both the poll data and ignoring

00:30:57.400 the actual viewing data of a lot of these folks.

00:31:00.220 No, I agree about the young activists.

00:31:01.800 So, right.

00:31:02.780 And well, that makes a pretty big difference.

00:31:05.400 And so the question becomes not just, quote unquote, what is the purpose?

00:31:08.680 Obviously, listen, I think that there is a purpose to calling out evil where it occurs

00:31:11.800 because calling out evil where it occurs is a good thing to do on a moral level.

00:31:15.440 And so if Candace Owens decides to slander the widow of Charlie Kirk, I think that people

00:31:18.860 have a moral duty to say that this is a bad thing, even if they are, quote unquote,

00:31:22.540 friends with those people.

00:31:23.920 But let's take that further.

00:31:25.900 So obviously, one should state one's view and say, you know, Erica's great and attacks

00:31:29.880 on her are not right.

00:31:31.220 Well, Michael, I'll just ask you straight up.

00:31:32.580 Is Candace Owens doing something evil by attacking Erica Kirk?

00:31:35.100 I think that it's wrong to attack Erica Kirk.

00:31:37.620 Well, no, say the sentence with her name in it.

00:31:40.360 No, I'm not going to dance like a puppet for the podcast wars.

00:31:44.380 You don't have to dance like a puppet, but you are dancing pretty quickly.

00:31:47.660 I mean, there's a lot of tap dancing.

00:31:48.880 I know, I don't think there's any chapter.

00:31:50.140 Even if you aren't interested in the podcast wars, the podcast.

00:31:53.920 And I think the people who are leading the invective against Candace are her biggest

00:31:57.500 publicists.

00:31:58.240 And I hope she's paying them very well.

00:31:59.340 Leading the invective against Candace.

00:32:00.140 I mean, this I take a little bit of umbrage at.

00:32:02.100 I don't feel that it's invective to say that what she is doing to Erica Kirk is totally

00:32:05.460 demonic.

00:32:06.320 No, it is invective.

00:32:07.440 It could be justified invective, but it's certainly invective.

00:32:09.760 My point is, all one does when one points is at is to promote her.

00:32:12.280 Michael, when is the last time you used the term invective to talk about justified invective?

00:32:15.520 Give me a break.

00:32:15.920 No, of course.

00:32:16.900 The three most famous speeches in Dante are the invectives, and they're totally justified.

00:32:21.240 Invective can be a good thing.

00:32:22.320 My point is just that, what is the goal of that?

00:32:26.580 Is the goal to make oneself feel really morally good?

00:32:29.380 To puff oneself up to one's friends and fans?

00:32:32.140 Or is the goal to try to reduce, I don't know, the popularity of some show?

00:32:36.080 Because if it's the latter, it's not working.

00:32:37.540 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:32:38.620 It's about stating principles.

00:32:40.040 That's what we're here for.

00:32:40.880 That's our job.

00:32:41.280 But one can easily do that without focusing all of this attention.

00:32:44.040 We actually cast checks because we state our principles.

00:32:48.060 And this is a real question.

00:32:50.000 This is not—I'm totally against calling people out and calling people names.

00:32:54.300 I think it's a bad thing.

00:32:55.640 But I'm not against calling out evil.

00:32:57.520 I mean, Ben's right.

00:32:58.360 This is the basic bottom line.

00:32:59.780 But no one disagrees about that.

00:33:01.200 Yes, but you don't do it.

00:33:03.540 And I think—

00:33:04.280 I've made my view on the Erica Kirk thing completely clear.

00:33:07.400 Yeah, but I mean, look, you know, Tucker Carlson is sitting around saying that American soldiers—

00:33:11.480 implying that American soldiers want to rape Iranian women.

00:33:14.240 And that's what Donald Trump meant by, you know—

00:33:17.100 Unconditional surrender.

00:33:18.220 Unconditional surrender.

00:33:19.160 I mean, that's a disgusting thing to say.

00:33:21.120 American soldiers have been the best-behaved soldiers on Earth in human history.

00:33:25.880 And I just think it's—you know, when people say that stuff, something's wrong with them.

00:33:29.680 Something has gone wrong with these people, and it's not the same.

00:33:32.420 Sure, but why would we publicize it, I guess, is my question.

00:33:35.160 Because we don't need to publicize it.

00:33:36.360 As you said, they're tremendously popular.

00:33:38.460 But the thing about it is, like, if you take someone like Candace, I believe Candace is popular with people who no longer matter.

00:33:44.880 You know, anybody who's taking what she says seriously on any level is already lost to the light, as far as I'm concerned.

00:33:51.680 Tucker's a little smarter, although he's starting to go—you know, when you get infested by demons,

00:33:55.940 after a while, you're crab-walking across the ceiling, cursing at the priest, you know.

00:34:00.240 I mean, that's what happens.

00:34:01.780 That's the trajectory of that.

00:34:03.620 But, I mean, at some point, you know, you stand for something, or you don't stand for anything.

00:34:08.320 Right, but no one is—I think that's a false dichotomy, basically.

00:34:12.140 I think we're saying, well, you need to state your principles.

00:34:14.540 You need to state what you believe.

00:34:15.500 Yeah, sure, we all agree on that.

00:34:17.500 The only question that I have is, should the podcasters be spending all of their time

00:34:21.360 talking about each other in these meta-political fights and promoting each other's clips, for goodness sakes.

00:34:25.700 Okay, so first of all, all of their time is a wild exaggeration, as far as I am concerned,

00:34:29.500 because last I checked, what actually happened is that I made one speech at TPUSA

00:34:32.800 and then said literally nothing for months about any of these people up until—

00:34:36.620 And they're attacking you.

00:34:37.280 I'm not—it's not just you.

00:34:38.780 I'm not even saying you're leading it.

00:34:40.000 I'm really not.

00:34:40.960 The only point that I'm making here is that if these people do have a great level of popularity,

00:34:45.320 which they do, and they are saying things that are bad, which they are,

00:34:49.620 calling out the bad things that famous people are saying and doing

00:34:52.800 is actually the thing that we do for a living, and we do it for politicians.

00:34:56.300 Michael, you do it for commentators on the left.

00:34:57.960 We play clips of these people all day long on our shows.

00:35:00.440 When those people are, quote-unquote, purportedly on our side,

00:35:02.760 and some of them are in the ear of vice presidents of the United States,

00:35:05.940 then it sometimes becomes a little important to actually call that out.

00:35:09.440 And that is the thing that I think is—now, listen, you can do whatever you want.

00:35:12.100 Obviously, it's a free country, and you're well within the Overton window in your opinions,

00:35:15.920 as far as I am concerned, even if we disagree about your approach to these particular personalities.

00:35:20.820 I mean, many of our hosts have appeared and continue to appear on the shows of the very people

00:35:24.540 that we are talking about, and at no point have I or anybody at the Daily Wire said

00:35:28.180 that they should not do that.

00:35:29.380 So that is sort of beside the point as to what we're arguing here.

00:35:32.860 The only point that I'm making is that if what the commentary business is about

00:35:36.740 is speaking to the audience, meaning a large audience of people who are making up their minds

00:35:41.360 as to who they ought to listen to and the kind of ideas they ought to consider good and bad,

00:35:45.900 then, yes, it is worthwhile to say it is not worth your time to listen to people who argue

00:35:50.940 that, for example, the Hazarian Jews are responsible for the breakout of World War III

00:35:57.380 or that they're digging tunnels across America like rats or that the Israelis worship Baal.

00:36:04.320 If people like that have millions of viewers and that viewership has crossover with the movement

00:36:09.520 that I've grown up my entire life trying to build and their numbers are going up,

00:36:14.300 then I think that it's a good thing to say, hey, guys, you probably shouldn't watch this.

00:36:17.440 Can I jump in here for a second?

00:36:20.180 I just want to make something clear.

00:36:23.160 Michael, I think that a lot of us feel like if you don't speak up and point these things out,

00:36:29.700 you are effectively abandoning the field.

00:36:33.140 You're basically treating it the way that a lot of Republicans used to treat an issue like abortion,

00:36:38.400 where they just didn't want to talk about it.

00:36:40.900 So what would happen?

00:36:42.340 What would happen is the Democrat would entirely talk about it.

00:36:45.480 They would define the terms.

00:36:47.000 They would determine what the debate was about.

00:36:49.600 And they would attempt to reframe the issue.

00:36:51.080 We saw this happen time and again, by the way, in Virginia.

00:36:53.060 And that's the kind of thing that leads to a false depiction of people who are trying to advocate for moral right

00:37:00.680 as being extremists, when in reality, they're just saying, we want to stop killing babies.

00:37:06.160 But just to take that to the Candace Owens situation, for example,

00:37:10.520 you don't have to engage with every amount of crazy.

00:37:14.840 But I do think that one of the things that's really been important and worthwhile

00:37:18.760 is that I used to love Tucker.

00:37:21.120 I have known Tucker, I met him when I was 15 years old at the Mayflower.

00:37:24.660 It was always very nice to me.

00:37:26.580 We've never had any kind of personal clash.

00:37:29.460 But the simple fact is he lies to the people who pay him money for those lies repeatedly.

00:37:38.080 And not just about things that are related to what we've been discussing,

00:37:41.420 but about history, about Winston Churchill, about the nature of reality in the world,

00:37:46.440 and particularly foreign policy and our national security.

00:37:49.540 And those are lies that I think have to be confronted on occasion when they rise to that.

00:37:53.500 And if we're not going to confront them, who is?

00:37:55.880 I just don't think you can let that stuff just sit out there.

00:37:58.280 But there's a flawed premise here.

00:37:59.340 There's a flawed premise, which is that by not engaging in these podcaster wars,

00:38:05.040 which become extraordinarily personal and go on forever, much longer than the Iraq or Afghanistan wars,

00:38:10.680 by not doing that, we would not be talking about the issues, which is not true.

00:38:17.180 That is completely false.

00:38:18.700 Whether we're talking about, I don't know, we're talking about the Iran war or the assassination of Charlie

00:38:22.460 or the Kazarian, Baal-worshipping, whatever, you know, that Ben was just referencing.

00:38:27.320 One can talk about all of these things.

00:38:29.220 One does talk about all of these things without necessarily engaging in this very personal aspect,

00:38:34.620 which to my mind, no one can give me an answer on what is being accomplished here.

00:38:38.740 Because my premise is that a lot of the podcaster stuff is quite and increasingly divorced from the actual political reality.

00:38:46.520 Just one point to finish this.

00:38:48.620 Look at Trump's approval numbers.

00:38:50.260 Look at the administration's approval numbers.

00:38:52.320 Look at how people feel about these interventions, Venezuela or Iran 1, even Iran 2, compared to the podcasters.

00:38:58.900 100% almost of the podcasters and the live streamers are opposed to all of these Trump admin things.

00:39:03.880 The electorate is for it.

00:39:05.340 And so it just seems to me there's this perverse incentive that did not exist in radio and TV.

00:39:10.020 It does exist in the new media, which is to be more radical, to be more sensational, to be more personal, make it more about the host.

00:39:18.440 And these incentives come up because everyone's kind of independent now and they all make it about themselves.

00:39:23.460 And it just seems to me this is not effective for a coalition.

00:39:26.840 And the more attention that you give to the personalities, the more their ratings are going to grow.

00:39:31.960 That wasn't true 10 years ago, but I think it's true in this situation.

00:39:34.680 I do not understand how a man who wrote an entire book claiming that there are some things that are actually off limits to say,

00:39:41.680 who said that it's not that we don't want to cancel people, but the left is canceling the wrong people.

00:39:46.260 Don't we have a responsibility on our side to say, yeah, you know, we...

00:39:50.300 But we have no ability to do it, is my point.

00:39:52.740 Yes, what the hell do you say?

00:39:53.820 The hell do you say?

00:39:54.700 We sure do.

00:39:55.840 We're not canceling people, but we do have a right to build up the borders.

00:39:58.860 None of these people's ratings have declined even slightly.

00:40:01.460 They've only increased.

00:40:01.860 I don't care whether their ratings decline.

00:40:03.360 It's not who's listening to them.

00:40:05.240 Look, anybody in this country can get 15 million people, especially if you're hating Jews, to follow you.

00:40:12.100 Wait, is that the secret?

00:40:13.080 I've been trying to get 15 million people for 10 years.

00:40:15.000 That's all I got to do?

00:40:15.980 All right.

00:40:16.640 You don't hate Jews enough.

00:40:18.280 That's why.

00:40:18.900 I got to work on that.

00:40:19.940 I mean, you know, popularity is not a sign of good or bad.

00:40:24.340 It's just something...

00:40:25.360 So it's not their popularity we're attacking.

00:40:28.000 It's their ideas.

00:40:28.840 And their ideas are attached to people.

00:40:30.460 And, you know, Tucker is a charming guy, and he's a clever guy, and he knows how to do what he's doing.

00:40:36.100 And we have to call him out because the words that come out of his mouth are simply untrue.

00:40:41.620 I mean, the facts that he sells are untrue.

00:40:44.760 The morals that he sells are morally illiterate.

00:40:47.900 The Bible, when he talks about the Bible, he's not quoting the Bible accurately or interpreting it accurately.

00:40:53.900 He's a Protestant, yeah.

00:40:54.960 Yeah, well, he's worse than a Protestant.

00:40:56.780 I mean, I'd like...

00:40:57.380 I know some pretty decent Protestants.

00:40:58.860 He's worse.

00:40:59.180 He's an Episcopalian.

00:40:59.800 But no, I'm just saying...

00:41:00.600 I'm just saying I don't see why we...

00:41:02.260 Yeah, that's true.

00:41:03.340 He's not even a Christian.

00:41:04.460 I say that as a former Episcopalian.

00:41:06.920 Yeah.

00:41:07.480 Me too.

00:41:08.080 Me too.

00:41:09.040 Guilty, guilty, guilty.

00:41:10.180 I would just point out, when we're talking...

00:41:11.900 Because I agree with you, Drew.

00:41:13.040 I'm all for censorship.

00:41:14.300 When it's just and prudent and within bounds and all...

00:41:16.520 You're right.

00:41:16.820 That's the whole point of my book, Speechless, which is available for purchase wherever you get to find books.

00:41:20.400 But my point is, the two examples where people have really gone out of bounds in recent years, it would be probably Alex Jones, right?

00:41:30.920 It would be when he started talking about Sandy Hook.

00:41:34.920 Yeah.

00:41:35.160 And then, what was the other one?

00:41:37.260 I don't know.

00:41:37.780 Well, I guess, actually, one example, you could actually use an example...

00:41:40.000 Because he was right about the cross.

00:41:40.900 ...of Tucker at Fox before Tucker left.

00:41:42.540 But in both of those cases, how were the standards reinforced?

00:41:51.240 Regardless of whether you think it was good or bad, what happened to Alex Jones or Tucker or whoever.

00:41:56.380 You know how it was enforced?

00:41:57.320 Through lawfare.

00:41:58.340 Through censorship.

00:41:59.320 Actually, a way better example than Fox.

00:42:01.280 Father Coghlan, most popular radio host in America.

00:42:04.120 What was it?

00:42:04.420 One in four American households was listening to him.

00:42:07.000 He did not go off the air because people complained about him and called more attention to his program.

00:42:11.700 He went off the air because the hierarchy of the church and the White House shut him down.

00:42:15.700 That was basically what did it.

00:42:16.800 And so, I guess, my whole argument here is not that we shouldn't have standards.

00:42:19.620 It's not that we shouldn't say what we believe.

00:42:21.280 It's just that if one is going to undertake a political tactic, it should work.

00:42:26.660 And in this case, I just don't...

00:42:27.960 I think this one's been totally counterproductive.

00:42:30.220 Here's what I'll say just about the efficacy point.

00:42:32.140 And then I want to bring this away from struggle sessioning Michael and back toward, like, actually, what I think is a more realistic issue.

00:42:39.380 So, as far as the utilitarian nature of the tactic, it depends who you're talking to.

00:42:44.240 If the goal is to inform people who, say, were Fox News Tucker fans of what Tucker has been saying lately, I think that is a virtuous thing to do.

00:42:51.280 Because I think there are a lot of people who are totally unaware of the stuff that Tucker is saying now or has been saying who have sort of vestigial goodwill for the Tucker Carlson they remember from 2018.

00:43:00.240 I think it's a very real phenomenon, which is why he has broader purchase.

00:43:03.140 I think telling young people who are falling into the trap of listening to Candace or to Tucker's lies that what they're listening to is actively untrue is a useful thing to do.

00:43:12.940 And if their numbers continue to go up, they continue to go up.

00:43:15.240 But you've done your duty in at least giving people the informational choices available.

00:43:19.100 And then they can make their own decision because, of course, it is a free country and no one is actually calling for people to be banned from the air.

00:43:24.780 Where this makes a difference and where the rubber meets the road.

00:43:26.720 And this goes back to your point, Michael, about sort of the political.

00:43:29.000 And this is where, you know, I know Drew went right into the Tucker when we started talking about J.D., which is, remember, I'm trying to reverse engineer where we were in this conversation.

00:43:37.560 And this, again, is why we have the show is so we can actually beat the living hell out of each other, obviously.

00:43:41.500 But the J.D. and the Rubio of it, it goes to coalition building, which I think lies under a lot of this.

00:43:48.320 What is the coalition that each of these candidates is trying to build?

00:43:52.140 I think the reason there's been a lot of heat and light around J.D. and Tucker is because the question is, is J.D.'s coalition, is it inclusive not only of Tucker as a voter, but coalitions include lots of voters.

00:44:04.280 Is it inclusive of Tucker's ideas?

00:44:06.520 Is it inclusive of Tucker as a leader of that coalition?

00:44:09.920 Because if so, that's a very different coalition than the coalition of Donald Trump, who may eventually who may talk to Tucker and then will go out publicly and say he can say whatever he wants.

00:44:18.400 I don't listen to a word he says, which is something that J.D. Vance has never said about Tucker Carlson.

00:44:22.420 And I think it's leading to a lot of people suspecting maybe he agrees with some of the things that Tucker is doing and saying.

00:44:27.900 And probably one of the reasons why Donald Trump himself, you know, you kind of led this off by saying Trump has appointed J.D. his heir and then Marco his running mate.

00:44:35.240 And Marco has committed to the idea that he's not going to run against J.D.

00:44:38.940 But I don't think that that's quite accurate in the depiction of what Trump has said about J.D. or Rubio.

00:44:44.160 He said, I like both these guys.

00:44:45.500 Yeah, he says, I like both these guys. And then he's apparently been pulling rooms of donors as to which one people like better.

00:44:50.940 And a lot of the donors seem to like Rubio better.

00:44:53.640 And I think there are some reasons for that, including kind of J.D.'s affect.

00:44:56.620 I think also including the sort of political that these are political coalition building.

00:45:00.800 And here I want to kind of shift the conversation into a prudential one, which is which one of these candidates, if you had to choose, right, assume both of them were running.

00:45:07.820 They're not. But assume both of them are running for a second.

00:45:09.820 Which one is likely to build a successful coalition?

00:45:12.240 I want to get to that in just one second.

00:45:14.220 First, guys, we have to talk about sleeping because, honestly, after this, we're all going to need to, you know, lie down.

00:45:18.480 This has been extraordinarily stressful, I think, for the audience, for us, for Michael.

00:45:23.880 It's the one time I've ever felt bad for Michael, frankly.

00:45:26.240 Who do you feel bad for me for?

00:45:27.940 I feel bad for you, Michael, because you don't have a Helix Sleep mattress.

00:45:31.340 Or maybe you do.

00:45:32.500 Okay, you do.

00:45:33.680 You're right.

00:45:34.200 I don't feel bad for you.

00:45:34.600 You guys deserve a Helix Sleep mattress.

00:45:36.140 Well, folks, Helix Sleep has a sleep quiz.

00:45:40.120 It uses your preferred sleep position, firmness, and other factors to match you with the right mattress for you,

00:45:44.240 which is a far more rational system than wandering around a showroom and laying on random beds.

00:45:48.240 Helix is an award-winning mattress brand reviewed by outlets like Forbes and Wired.

00:45:52.920 Now that I know that Michael loves the Helix mattress, Michael, tell me about something that you and I agree on,

00:45:56.980 the magic of the Helix Sleep mattress.

00:45:58.660 I, well, listen, I know a lot of people, they close their eyes, they think about what it's like to sleep with me.

00:46:06.000 And, but they don't, they can think the same thing about you because of these beautiful Helix mattresses.

00:46:10.760 One thing that's very, very important, and you realize this as you get a little older, is you want to be a good father.

00:46:15.460 You want to, you know, lead your kids in the right way.

00:46:18.060 I'm such a good father.

00:46:20.300 Both of my eldest boys, both of the boys who are out of the crib are sleeping in Helix mattresses.

00:46:25.340 I worry I might be spoiling them, actually.

00:46:28.280 Helix ships directly to your door in the United States with free shipping a 120-night sleep trial,

00:46:33.900 a limited lifetime warranty, meaning you can test it risk-free.

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00:46:41.440 They could offer you 120-year guarantee.

00:46:43.780 You will keep your Helix mattress.

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00:46:58.480 Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know that we sent you again.

00:47:01.580 That's helixsleep.com slash friendlyfire.

00:47:04.080 Now is the time for us to say goodbye to Ben Dominich.

00:47:06.860 Ben, they're not all like this, I have to say.

00:47:09.200 This episode, you know, the minute that Walsh steps out, suddenly, you know, the actual battles begin.

00:47:15.600 Who would have figured that one?

00:47:17.020 But, Ben, thanks for stopping by.

00:47:18.420 I really appreciate it.

00:47:18.820 It's good to see you, Ben.

00:47:19.520 Welcome aboard.

00:47:20.900 That's because Walsh, you know, everyone thinks because Walsh seems kind of disagreeable that he's the one that's going to love to scrap.

00:47:27.320 He actually hates, we're the ones that love to fight.

00:47:29.800 It's 100% true.

00:47:30.700 This company, we kind of forget it.

00:47:32.480 A lot of people don't even know this.

00:47:33.860 When this company began, 2015, 2016, the first two hours of the day,

00:47:38.500 we would just beat the hell out of each other for like an hour or something.

00:47:43.480 It's absolutely true, yeah, yeah.

00:47:44.480 I miss those days.

00:47:45.620 You remember, Ben, you and I would fight so much that the women would call us up and say,

00:47:49.880 are you okay?

00:47:50.560 That would always make me laugh.

00:47:51.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:52.920 We'd have totally forgotten it.

00:47:55.420 Are you guys all right?

00:47:56.580 Yeah, exactly.

00:47:57.140 Everyone's like, is everything okay in the office?

00:47:58.820 Yeah, we're just beating the hell out of each other.

00:48:00.220 I actually, my kind of button, this is my like esoteric philosophical button on the podcaster wars,

00:48:07.240 sort of like tactical disputes.

00:48:09.360 It occurred to me the other day, this might come down to a Kantian versus Aristotelian thing.

00:48:16.140 Is that too much?

00:48:17.300 Yeah, too far.

00:48:17.940 Is that too much?

00:48:19.380 You should call it Kant as well.

00:48:21.560 Well, yeah, well, I mean, number one, if you're calling me a Kantian, you know, you can just.

00:48:26.020 Those are fighting words.

00:48:27.140 Those are fighting words.

00:48:28.120 Second of all, I think that based on the evidence, Aristotle himself would look at Tucker Carlson

00:48:32.300 and think to himself, dude does too much L.

00:48:34.520 And then look at Candace Owens and saying, none of this seems to be rooted in the evidence

00:48:38.760 that I see here on this earth before I build platonic visions of the sky.

00:48:42.840 Well, that was the problem.

00:48:43.540 You know, sometimes people say like, wow, we know more than the ancient philosophers, you

00:48:47.180 know, because they lived a long time ago and we have scientific discoveries.

00:48:51.040 Yeah, forget about that.

00:48:52.060 It's we have nicotine.

00:48:53.220 They didn't have nicotine then, so their brains didn't work quite as well.

00:48:56.540 That must be it.

00:48:57.460 That must be it.

00:48:57.860 Only made in India.

00:48:58.880 You need nicotine made only in India.

00:49:00.300 The greatest nicotine is only made.

00:49:01.900 Anyway, enough of my snide references to, you know, a guy who was scratched to be fair

00:49:06.660 by a demon.

00:49:07.600 Let's talk instead about the coalitional differences inside the Republican Party.

00:49:12.780 This actually is, I think, an interesting topic.

00:49:14.640 And it is it is more of a pragmatic topic than some of these sort of ideological battles

00:49:18.740 that we're talking about.

00:49:19.600 I'm going to make the case that J.D. Vance has a coalitional problem, not in sense of

00:49:25.600 like Tucker versus me or any of that kind of stuff.

00:49:27.620 I'm going to make the case that if you look at Donald Trump's coalition, J.D. Vance is

00:49:31.480 trying to replicate almost identically Donald Trump's coalition.

00:49:34.740 I do not think it is possible for J.D. Vance to do this.

00:49:37.560 I think this is a poor strategy.

00:49:39.100 J.D.'s brilliant.

00:49:40.140 I think J.D.'s incredibly talented.

00:49:41.760 I think there's a world where J.D. can build his own coalition, but it looks different than

00:49:45.140 the Trump coalition.

00:49:46.200 When I look at J.D. Vance right now, what I see is somebody who will underperform Trump

00:49:49.900 in nearly every category, meaning he will win fewer non-college educated white voters because

00:49:54.260 it is not possible to win more non-college educated white voters than Donald Trump does.

00:49:57.860 He will win fewer Hispanics for sure.

00:49:59.980 He'll win fewer black voters.

00:50:01.220 He'll win fewer women.

00:50:02.300 He'll win fewer Jews.

00:50:03.340 He'll win fewer Asians.

00:50:04.180 And so I look at the coalition that Trump has built, and I think, where is the pickup?

00:50:07.960 Like, where is the where is where if you're if you're setting a stereo, where exactly

00:50:12.200 is the factor?

00:50:12.920 Where's the base?

00:50:13.520 Where do you ramp up the treble?

00:50:14.500 You know, like where exactly does you ramp it up?

00:50:16.900 And when I look at Rubio, I know exactly where he loses some of Trump's coalition, like blue

00:50:20.580 collar white voters probably won't vote as much for Marco Rubio.

00:50:22.820 But does he do better than than Trump did with Hispanics?

00:50:25.580 That's possible.

00:50:26.340 Does he do better with college educated whites than Trump did?

00:50:29.020 That's certainly possible.

00:50:30.120 Will he do better with women than President Trump did?

00:50:32.220 That's possible, too.

00:50:32.980 Now, none of that's a guarantee, but that at least is sort of an interesting thought as

00:50:38.040 far as what does a future post Trump coalition look like?

00:50:40.860 Because people tend to think of like post Trump politicians, but every politician's

00:50:44.260 got their own coalition.

00:50:45.080 The Bush coalition was not exactly the Trump coalition.

00:50:47.780 Right.

00:50:47.880 Bush had the soccer moms.

00:50:48.760 Trump really didn't.

00:50:49.640 So what exactly does the Vance coalition look like?

00:50:52.780 A victorious Vance coalition?

00:50:54.160 And I know, Michael, you're a big fan of sort of the Vance coalition vision.

00:50:56.680 So I'll let you know.

00:50:57.660 Yeah, yeah, I'm no, no secret.

00:50:59.540 I'm a big admirer of the VP, but it's a good point you raised, Ben.

00:51:02.360 I mean, even, even down to, according to these reports, who knows if they're real, but let's

00:51:06.400 say they are real, that the donors like Rubio more.

00:51:08.880 That doesn't surprise me at all.

00:51:10.240 The donors in 16 liked Rubio more than, frankly, most of the other guys on stage other than

00:51:15.420 Jeb Bush.

00:51:16.220 So that doesn't surprise me.

00:51:17.800 In fact, I think a lot of the vice president's appeal is he doesn't speak directly to the donor

00:51:22.180 class.

00:51:22.540 I think he's fluent enough in their language.

00:51:24.720 He spent time in Silicon Valley.

00:51:26.240 He's a lawyer from a top school, you know, so he can talk to them, but I agree.

00:51:30.160 It's more, he's going to speak more to blue collar voters and, you know, more to a populist

00:51:35.220 coalition.

00:51:35.560 I guess you raise a serious challenge.

00:51:38.820 The counterexample I would give is George H.W. Bush.

00:51:41.960 So you get two terms of Reagan.

00:51:44.080 The Reaganites kind of hated the Bushies.

00:51:46.300 Here, at least, there's real alignment between Trump and J.D. Vance.

00:51:49.540 You know, the Reagan-Bush ticket was a compromise to unify the party.

00:51:54.620 The Reaganites were very, very skeptical of the Bushies.

00:51:57.280 Bush was less appealing than Reagan in almost every way, and he was able to win as a matter

00:52:03.420 of Reagan's third term.

00:52:05.520 Now, I think clearly J.D. being picked as the VP for a non-consecutive second term, he

00:52:10.560 was being set up to be Trump's third term.

00:52:13.540 And so this creates another problem for J.D.

00:52:16.080 I don't think it's a coalitional problem.

00:52:17.860 I think it's a, you ride or die by Trump.

00:52:20.780 I mean, that, like, there is really no light whatsoever between the president and the vice

00:52:25.140 president.

00:52:25.480 I think, in many ways, the horse races that are trying to distinguish the differences

00:52:29.400 here, no, I think basically Trump's going to win a third term where he's not.

00:52:33.060 I think that's right.

00:52:33.960 I was a big supporter of Vance before he was picked.

00:52:37.740 I thought, like, this is the perfect guy.

00:52:40.000 I think Rubio has done a spectacular job as secretary of state.

00:52:43.740 He's the one thing that Trump says that I don't think is hyperbole when he calls him

00:52:47.260 one of the great secretaries of state.

00:52:49.260 I saw him at the meeting about the anti-cartel organizations.

00:52:55.380 And when Rubio was speaking in fluent Spanish to the assembled people from south of the border,

00:53:01.500 I just was thinking every Hispanic in America is going to vote for this guy.

00:53:04.720 I mean, the guy is unbelievably good at what he's doing.

00:53:07.480 I mean, he has a record that is, you know, I'm not as big a believer in what the media

00:53:13.020 tries to sell people vote for.

00:53:14.420 They think we vote for looks.

00:53:15.740 They think we vote for, you know, all kinds of things that work well on television.

00:53:20.200 But I think people actually pay attention to some of the issues, especially economic issues.

00:53:24.760 And, you know, Rubio was soft on the border.

00:53:27.740 He really, even though he won the support of donors, I think that Trump wiped the floor

00:53:33.380 with him as a candidate.

00:53:34.260 I mean, he made him look really, really bad, and some of those videos are going to come

00:53:37.440 back to haunt him.

00:53:38.660 I do think that, you know, I don't want to get back on Tucker, but I do think that Vance...

00:53:43.320 You do want to get back on Tucker.

00:53:44.640 I think you do.

00:53:45.740 Yes, you do.

00:53:46.420 I think that Vance has given himself a moral problem.

00:53:49.940 If we go in to...

00:53:51.880 If this war in Iran continues to be successful, and if it's as successful as we all hope it

00:53:57.200 will be, I think Vance looks kind of bad.

00:53:59.900 And I think...

00:54:00.540 And I don't say that with any kind of animosity, because I really do like the guy.

00:54:03.760 And I think he's better than he appears, and I think he'd make a good president.

00:54:09.280 But I think that he has given himself a moral problem.

00:54:12.600 And normally in America, America has changed over the years, but normally in America, these

00:54:17.400 hate fests, like the anti-Jewish hate fest that's going on right now, they blow up the

00:54:23.180 bubble, and then the bubble explodes, and people come back to their senses.

00:54:26.160 Like in the Salem witch trials, they sort of remember who they are.

00:54:28.960 They remember what America is.

00:54:30.180 And I think that if that happens, a lot of people are going to have some stench on them,

00:54:34.360 and one of them is J.D. Vance.

00:54:35.620 So right now, I'm just a little bit concerned that Vance doesn't have what it takes to stick

00:54:42.620 the ball, you know, to make it over the goal line.

00:54:44.680 You know, it's kind of interesting.

00:54:45.700 You remember Selena Zito had that famous phrase about Trump, take him seriously, but

00:54:49.040 not literally, which I think remains the single best description of how to actually

00:54:52.300 treat the president.

00:54:52.780 You know, when you think about that, I think there's a case to be made that Marco Rubio

00:54:58.040 takes the president seriously, and J.D. Vance takes him literally.

00:55:01.260 What I mean by this is that if you look at how the vice president sort of interprets the

00:55:05.280 way that Trump ran in 2024, he interprets the way that Trump ran as he was the Joe Rogan

00:55:10.180 candidate, right?

00:55:10.960 He was the guy who was going on Theo Vaughn and Joe Rogan.

00:55:13.920 And so if you just sort of be the guy who goes on Theo Vaughn or Joe Rogan, that's the

00:55:17.960 sort of swing vote that you need to appeal to, is Theo Vaughn and Joe Rogan.

00:55:21.520 And the point that I've made, including to be on the vice president's staff, is that

00:55:25.400 I do not actually think that that is an accurate depiction of where politics is going to be

00:55:28.920 in 28.

00:55:29.400 I would be shocked if Joe Rogan votes Republican in 2028.

00:55:32.220 I'd be shocked if Theo Vaughn votes Republican in 2028.

00:55:35.240 You can already see them creating gaps between themselves and the administration in order

00:55:39.820 to move away and back toward, quote unquote, the middle or back toward the other side, because

00:55:44.260 they realize that in the polls, you know, the popularity of the administration isn't

00:55:47.780 exactly soaring right now.

00:55:48.960 And so trying to program into that, you're not going to be able to outbid a Democrat

00:55:52.640 when it comes to being anti-Israel.

00:55:53.980 You're not going to be able to outbid a Democrat when it comes to being, you know, big government

00:55:57.960 oriented and anti-capitalist and anti-business.

00:56:00.400 You're not going to be able to outbid them on any of that.

00:56:01.960 And if the only thing you have is transgenderism, granted, that's a powerful issue for a lot

00:56:05.800 of the podcast bros.

00:56:06.920 But this is where, you know, Michael, to go back to sort of the broader podcast point,

00:56:10.020 not having to do with, you know, any specific personality.

00:56:12.100 The reality is that we called the last election the podcast election for a reason.

00:56:17.420 These people, their voices do matter.

00:56:19.320 And pretending they don't matter is, of course, I think, whistling past the graveyard.

00:56:23.200 I think the vice president has all the talent in the world and all the intellectual capacity

00:56:26.640 in the world.

00:56:27.320 I think that he is actively misreading the nature of the American electorate if he thinks

00:56:31.360 that the way to build a coalition is to find the Joe Rogan voter and then grab that

00:56:35.460 Rogan voter and hold him by the hand all the way to the polls.

00:56:37.980 I think that that is not going to work out well for him.

00:56:40.600 And then you look at Rubio and you think, man, I've never seen more two dissimilar people

00:56:44.660 than President Trump and Marco Rubio.

00:56:46.100 I mean, just like wildly dissimilar.

00:56:47.960 But if you look at where they are in policy, Rubio has been in lock.

00:56:51.300 There has not been a single story that has been leaked to the entire administration, the

00:56:55.540 entire administration in which Rubio was not in lockstep with the president.

00:56:59.060 There have been stories almost every two weeks about how Vance was not in lockstep with

00:57:01.780 the president, including one from Politico today about the president and the vice president

00:57:05.460 with regard to Iran.

00:57:06.300 Now, I don't know whether those leaks are coming from Team VP or Team Anti-VP.

00:57:09.560 It could be either.

00:57:11.080 Not only that, Trump has done the presence of Trump, the experience of Trump has done

00:57:16.500 something to Rubio.

00:57:17.480 He is not the man he was.

00:57:18.980 I think we all notice this.

00:57:20.200 He is not as unsure on his feet.

00:57:22.120 He's incredibly articulate.

00:57:23.840 He's incredibly on point.

00:57:25.240 There's something about being around Trump that has made him a better man and a better

00:57:28.780 candidate.

00:57:29.420 And I think everybody can see that.

00:57:30.780 And I think Trump is, you know, I think Trump's having fun, you know, polling people about

00:57:35.100 which candidate is which.

00:57:36.180 I think he's almost playing a political game.

00:57:38.720 But still, I think that there is something that, you know, we all, I thought of J.D.

00:57:43.840 Vance as the third Trump term.

00:57:46.340 But right this minute, if I had to pick which one of them was the third Trump term, I'd be

00:57:50.140 hard pressed to do it.

00:57:51.140 You know, the other thing that I think is worth mentioning here is that, again, Marco says

00:57:54.240 he doesn't want to run if J.D. is running.

00:57:56.140 So it may be a moot point.

00:57:57.080 But it's a message that I think that the Vance campaign should pick up.

00:58:00.860 If there is this much roiling underneath the surface about like, well, yeah, then maybe

00:58:06.100 there are some voices worth listening to on that side of the aisle as well.

00:58:09.060 If you're talking about a coalitional approach and one side of your coalition is deeply,

00:58:13.020 deeply unhappy, then it may be worthwhile to, you know, maybe steer a little bit differently

00:58:17.580 is all I would say.

00:58:18.500 If again, if we're talking practical, pragmatic coalition building.

00:58:21.380 Now, look, one of the reasons that we can do uncensored, ad-free daily shows, exclusive

00:58:27.880 live news coverage, and investigative reporting is simple.

00:58:31.240 Daily Wire Plus members make it possible.

00:58:34.040 So we need you.

00:58:35.580 You are the, I have to say, I don't, I don't mean any shade to Walsh.

00:58:38.900 I always like it when Walsh is here.

00:58:40.480 This is my favorite episode of this show.

00:58:42.820 It really feels like the old days again.

00:58:45.200 And I mean, look, we'll get Walsh, you know, in scrappy spirit too.

00:58:48.940 But it's all, it only increases my appreciation of the Daily Wire members.

00:58:54.020 It is because of you.

00:58:55.640 You're the ones who let us do it.

00:58:57.580 So if you want more of this, then you have to go to dailywire.com slash subscribe to join us today.

00:59:03.720 So now that we've talked about all the interesting things, I am forced under duress to talk about

00:59:09.920 something that interests me, not in the least, but thankfully, speaking of the old days,

00:59:14.280 we're bringing back an old pal of ours from L.A., Christian Toto.

00:59:18.500 Apparently the Oscars are coming up.

00:59:21.300 Is that right?

00:59:21.840 Do I have that right?

00:59:23.260 I think so.

00:59:24.320 So here's my take on Tucker.

00:59:25.620 Oh, sorry.

00:59:28.600 This is the worst weekend of my professional life when I have to watch the Oscars because

00:59:32.720 I can't tune away for a second and the show goes on for at least eight hours.

00:59:37.000 Yeah, that's one of my best weekends because I don't watch it.

00:59:40.180 Well, I mean, for the people who are watching it, I'm just going to point out here, Calci

00:59:44.780 is one of our sponsors.

00:59:45.720 The Calci market suggests that one battle after another is going to win Best Picture.

00:59:49.300 Michael B. Jordan is going to win Best Actor.

00:59:51.600 That is what the Calci markets are suggesting.

00:59:55.620 And 76% for one battle after another.

00:59:58.720 That is the Paul Thomas Anderson piece of crap all about how America is run by white supremacists

01:00:03.900 and those white supremacists want to have wild sex with black radical revolutionaries.

01:00:09.600 I wish that were America.

01:00:10.820 That would be so much more fun than this America.

01:00:13.420 Thanks for that, Drew.

01:00:14.620 And Best Actor, Michael B. Jordan.

01:00:17.080 Huge late surge for Michael B. Jordan, not because he's playing for the Chicago Bulls,

01:00:21.120 but because, this is the other Michael B. Jordan, because Timothy Chalamet said some bad

01:00:26.060 things apparently about opera and ballet.

01:00:28.820 This is like the big, I love that we're now down to a controversy where Timothy Chalamet

01:00:33.420 pointed out that there aren't that many people who are fans of opera and ballet.

01:00:36.000 And let me say, as a fan of both, there are not that many fans of opera and ballet.

01:00:40.440 So, Christian, have you watched all 10 of these?

01:00:43.400 I watched all 10 of the Best Picture nominees, I will say.

01:00:45.720 Did you really?

01:00:46.440 I missed The Secret Agent, but I've seen everything else.

01:00:48.800 And, you know, you forgot the key thing against Chalamet is that they said he's got too much

01:00:53.040 swagger.

01:00:53.480 What the Oscar voting process has been reduced to is this sort of bizarre personality test

01:01:00.480 where if you say the wrong thing, if you insult cats, like Jessie Buckley has done to risk

01:01:05.900 her Hamnet nomination, that things can go south.

01:01:09.800 So, it's really crazy why we don't really judge on the Best Picture, Best Actor.

01:01:14.020 It's everything but these days.

01:01:15.960 So, let's talk about what you think actually was the Best Picture.

01:01:18.580 So, I watched every single one of them.

01:01:20.780 I thought that they were basically all extremely lackluster except for one, which I thought

01:01:26.460 was pretty good.

01:01:27.220 So, I thought one battle after another was terrible.

01:01:29.780 I thought that Sinners, the first half of it was really kind of interesting and then

01:01:33.580 it just did From Dawn Till Dusk, but super duper racist.

01:01:37.140 Hamnet I was underwhelmed by.

01:01:38.400 The one that I thought actually was quite interesting was Marty Supreme.

01:01:41.160 I thought Marty Supreme featured characters that were wildly unlikable, but it had some

01:01:46.260 in kind of the same way that the movie with Adrian Brody last year, what was the name of

01:01:51.300 that?

01:01:51.420 The Brutalist.

01:01:52.160 The Brutalist.

01:01:52.660 In the same way that it was sort of, yeah, in the same way that I did not like it, but

01:01:55.560 it was interesting.

01:01:56.580 Marty Supreme I liked more, but it was similarly interesting.

01:01:59.100 It was trying to say some things and Shalomet's performance is in fact fantastic.

01:02:02.560 It is a really, really good performance.

01:02:04.460 I wonder what you thought the best picture of this lackluster bunch was.

01:02:07.340 Not to be kissing up, but that was my favorite movie of the year.

01:02:11.520 My favorite performance as well.

01:02:13.060 It really was bursting with originality, but it all made sense.

01:02:16.340 And, you know, the great actors, the Gene Hackmans of the world can play a villain or

01:02:20.940 a jerk or a cat and you can't help but root for him or love him sometimes.

01:02:25.260 And I think that's what Shalomet did because his character on paper is a horrible human

01:02:28.520 being, yet he was so determined and so smart and so savvy and so unwilling to give up that

01:02:35.620 you couldn't help but root for him, even if he did the wrong thing one time after another.

01:02:39.440 It's a really good film.

01:02:41.040 It's not going to win, sadly, but I agree.

01:02:43.380 I mean, and it kind of reminded me of, Drew, Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz, right?

01:02:48.860 Yeah, yeah.

01:02:49.720 If you watch Marty Supreme and you watch Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz, it's hitting a lot of the

01:02:53.500 same notes about the corrupting nature of, you know, trying to seek success in society

01:02:58.080 above your morality.

01:02:59.120 This one actually has a bizarrely happy ending, which I wasn't sort of expecting, that at the

01:03:02.360 very end it's like he achieves his dream and then he becomes a decent person seems to

01:03:06.220 be the implication at the very end.

01:03:08.000 Yeah, I found it an unearned, I also just thought it was the same scene for two and a half

01:03:11.960 hours, basically.

01:03:12.900 I thought it was just very repetitive.

01:03:15.040 You know, the guy's a great actor.

01:03:16.120 He's actually a terrific actor.

01:03:17.900 I want to put in a vote for Anaconda with Jack Black.

01:03:21.400 I have to tell you something.

01:03:23.600 I know, this is hilarious.

01:03:25.400 I got to tell you, I came home and I watched that, you know, sitting around the channel.

01:03:30.280 I was in Stitches.

01:03:31.960 That movie is funny.

01:03:33.700 It's so dumb that I thought, like, was that me?

01:03:37.220 Am I like that?

01:03:37.880 So I went to a pal in England who's a very, very sophisticated literary guy, writer, excellent

01:03:44.100 critic of plot.

01:03:45.200 And he will be back and said, I just watched it at your recommendation.

01:03:47.880 That's a really funny movie.

01:03:49.480 I just think that Jack Black should win Best Actor.

01:03:52.160 I think the snake should win Best Snake.

01:03:57.180 It's just, if you have a chance to watch it with a couple of drinks, especially, it is

01:04:01.720 a hilarious movie.

01:04:02.980 That's the movie I like this year.

01:04:04.320 Harvey Weinstein was the best snake for a while, but then he's not available.

01:04:09.280 I did not watch a single movie this year, and now I actually am excited to watch Anaconda.

01:04:14.920 That's the only one.

01:04:15.760 I thought about, I was on a flight, and I was going to watch one of the movies that's

01:04:19.500 nominated, and I thought, will I do it?

01:04:21.660 At least here I have, you know, I got endless booze coming from the cabin.

01:04:25.500 And I said, no, I just don't want to.

01:04:27.620 Whatever the one about how we're all white supremacists.

01:04:30.080 One battle after another.

01:04:31.100 One battle after another.

01:04:31.900 I almost did not.

01:04:32.680 More sinners, actually.

01:04:33.020 Yeah, no, I heard it was a good movie, which would have made me angrier, I think, actually,

01:04:38.180 that, you know, this kind of good artistry was going to the service of this bad thing.

01:04:42.140 But no, I guess now I'll watch Anaconda.

01:04:44.540 I did read in the coverage, and Chris, you can tell me if this is true or not.

01:04:48.320 I heard that in terms of the Oscars show, there aren't really a lot of stars, like,

01:04:54.300 hosting the show or doing the, it's kind of a weak dais.

01:04:57.680 Is that right?

01:04:58.100 You know, it's been weak in the past few years.

01:05:01.040 You think you want the Nicholsons and the Denzels of the world to be there, the true stars.

01:05:05.920 But then they're going to have Jimmy Kimmel on stage as a presenter.

01:05:08.900 So just imagine what that's going to be.

01:05:10.600 Standing ovation that could go on for maybe even three plus hours itself.

01:05:14.680 Yeah.

01:05:14.960 I, you know, I always wonder why the big, big stars avoid the night.

01:05:18.840 And that maybe could be telling in and of itself.

01:05:21.440 Yeah.

01:05:21.680 Who's going to tell us how to vote if the big stars are?

01:05:24.160 I mean, that's right.

01:05:25.080 Honestly, when I look at the slate of films this year, there were some where, when I read the log line,

01:05:29.040 I was like, I feel like this could be interesting.

01:05:30.520 And then it just really was disappointing.

01:05:31.800 The biggest one that was like that for me was Hamnet.

01:05:33.880 I'm a sucker for that sort of stuff.

01:05:35.180 And so the fact that I found Hamnet intensely irritating and self-congratulatory was annoying to me.

01:05:43.380 Because, again, when it comes to pretentious art that references literature I love, I'm all in for that, baby.

01:05:50.080 That's my jam.

01:05:51.440 And the fact that Chloe Zhao somehow turned that into a bizarre piece about witchcraft in the woods, that was very strange to me.

01:05:59.640 So, you know, it's unfortunate.

01:06:01.580 Hopefully we'll have some better movies to look at next year.

01:06:04.140 Okay, so let's say that you're in your office pool, Christian.

01:06:06.560 Which one is the upset pick?

01:06:07.860 You're looking at these Calci markets.

01:06:09.320 You're seeing Michael B. Jordan for Best Actor.

01:06:11.240 You're seeing, I believe, who's going to win Best Actress this year?

01:06:16.520 I think this one is, this is Hamnet.

01:06:18.640 Jesse Buckley.

01:06:20.520 Where's the upset pick on the board if you're looking to make a little quick buck over the weekend?

01:06:24.980 Oh, gosh.

01:06:25.500 You know, I think the best supporting categories are often the most unusual.

01:06:31.000 You know, Marissa Tomei back in the day, Amira Soravino.

01:06:33.620 Marissa Tomei winning as well.

01:06:35.380 But this one, Amy Madigan seems like a lock for weapons because it was a really good horror film.

01:06:39.320 A smart, different kind of horror.

01:06:41.100 And she's been around forever and she's given good performances and she's done all the right things.

01:06:44.800 So I don't see an upset there.

01:06:47.340 In the Best Actor, gosh, are they going to give it to Sean Penn?

01:06:50.260 It was the most overacting I've ever seen.

01:06:52.720 It's ridiculous.

01:06:53.420 I don't know.

01:06:53.720 By the way, of all the categories, that's the one that pisses me off the most.

01:06:57.440 Because Sean Penn is actually good in some things, but he is awful in this, right?

01:07:00.820 In Mystic River, he's terrific.

01:07:02.020 In this, he is so bad in this movie.

01:07:05.820 Like, truly bad in this film.

01:07:07.400 He played the part as it was written.

01:07:09.680 I mean, I don't know.

01:07:10.260 I understand.

01:07:10.740 I mean, maybe there wasn't anything for him to do.

01:07:12.320 That's a fair critique, but it is frustrating when you see people.

01:07:15.540 Maybe Delroy Lindo for Sinners and Best Supporting.

01:07:17.000 I guess he's been a good, sturdy character actor for ages and it's a fine performance.

01:07:22.320 And, you know, there is a sentimentality built into the Oscars where an older star deserves his or her time.

01:07:28.140 So I think if you're going to be an upset, that might be it.

01:07:30.700 Here's my upset pick.

01:07:31.740 My upset pick is one battle after another wins Best Picture, but Ryan Coogler wins Best Director.

01:07:36.720 Yeah.

01:07:37.000 That's my upset pick.

01:07:38.320 Because, I mean, and frankly, I kind of would agree with that.

01:07:41.720 But this is not even like the top five of Paul Thomas Anderson movies.

01:07:46.560 And so him winning for this feels like a lifetime achievement award more than like an actual reference to the nature of this film, which is not one of his better ones.

01:07:55.300 Well, you know, unless you have anything more to say about the Oscars, I got nothing.

01:07:58.000 I'm all out.

01:07:58.700 I've emptied the clip over here.

01:07:59.680 It's really bad films.

01:08:00.800 Really bad lineup, I think.

01:08:02.200 Can I just make one more point about Tucker?

01:08:05.460 All right, we don't have time.

01:08:08.880 Wait, who are we talking about?

01:08:11.720 One quick thought, if I may add, you know, the BAFTA Awards in Britain a few weeks ago, there was that N-word that was uttered by the person with Tourette's.

01:08:20.820 That scandal, that non-scandal, has bled into the Oscar season to the point where maybe because an all-black cast like Sinners may have some momentum all of a sudden based on that sort of sympathy, that virtue signal.

01:08:33.100 That's insane in so many levels.

01:08:35.480 And the fact that everyone is treating this poor fellow as a monster when it's his condition is just terribly sad.

01:08:41.740 I'm looking forward to the Tourette's outburst when somebody says the one thing you're not allowed to say in Hollywood.

01:08:46.580 I voted for Trump.

01:08:47.540 Yeah.

01:08:48.520 And everyone just melts down.

01:08:50.220 It goes crazy in there.

01:08:51.520 The T-word.

01:08:52.140 Well, folks, if you actually want breaking news, not on the Oscars, but maybe on the Oscars, then you have to go over to Daily Wire Plus for all of that.

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01:09:36.460 All right.

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The Michael Knowles Show - March 13, 2026

Friendly Fire： Iran War Debate, 2028 Presidential Buzz & Oscars Preview

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