The Michael Knowles Show - November 13, 2026


Friendly Fire： The Making of Confession

Ep. 2102 - My Most Unpopular Take： Surveillance States Are Good

Episode Stats


Length

55 minutes

Words per minute

209.69

Word count

11,541

Sentence count

784

Harmful content

Misogyny

8

sentences flagged

Toxicity

18

sentences flagged

Hate speech

24

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00 There are two kinds of confession. One, the state force is out of a prisoner. The other,
00:00:04 a man makes freely before God. Confession, written by The Daily Wire's very own Ben Shapiro,
00:00:08 is about a man in Stalin's Moscow caught between the two. Confession is now streaming only on The
00:00:13 Daily Wire. Join today to watch. For the past week or so, many of us have been wondering when
00:00:20 we will be dragged off to the gulags or tortured in prisons for extracted confessions. Well,
00:00:28 Well, coincidentally, Ben Shapiro has a movie on that very topic.
00:00:32 This is Friendly Fire.
00:00:40 Ben, I am so excited.
00:00:41 I know we've been pitching this a little bit dishonestly.
00:00:44 We've been calling this a narrative movie, a work of drama from The Daily Wire,
00:00:49 when in fact this is yet another documentary, albeit one that is just peering into our future.
00:00:55 You got this big hit movie, Confession.
00:00:58 Yeah, it's very exciting.
00:00:58 I mean, obviously, for us as a company, it's really exciting.
00:01:01 It's exciting for me on a personal level because whenever you write something and then you watch it materialize, it's an amazing thing.
00:01:06 It's my first time doing this.
00:01:07 I know Drew has done this before.
00:01:09 But, you know, you spend a certain amount of time writing a thing, and then the amount of effort that everyone else puts into making that thing real is pretty flattering.
00:01:15 It's kind of an honor.
00:01:16 The fact that we as a company are putting out something that, you know, obviously I'm speaking about a film I wrote, but I think this thing is extraordinarily high quality.
00:01:25 The acting is high quality.
00:01:26 Can I make a confession?
00:01:27 Can I make a confession? You sent me the screener, and it didn't even have my name on it. It was
00:01:31 actually a screener for another person, and I got the secondary screen. Okay, so I sit down to watch
00:01:35 it, and I expected, I thought it'd be impressive in many ways, but I expected to hear Rob Lowe open
00:01:43 his mouth or James Franco open his mouth and hear, wham, wham, wham, wham, wham. And I was like,
00:01:49 here we go. And it pains me to say anything complimentary and nice and sincere.
00:01:57 I'm watching it, and I'm engrossed in it.
00:02:01 And then more and more so, and more and more so.
00:02:03 And then especially second act through the climax,
00:02:08 this is like a deeply moving film
00:02:10 with a lot of beautiful writing
00:02:13 and excellent acting and beautiful direction.
00:02:16 And I actually had this thought, I was like,
00:02:18 man, I'm like really proud of Ben.
00:02:22 I'm like really happy.
00:02:23 This is like a lifelong dream
00:02:24 that's come about in this beautiful movie.
00:02:26 it's just like you really stuck the landing.
00:02:28 Oh, I appreciate that.
00:02:29 And again, I think that for our company,
00:02:31 it's a major step forward, right?
00:02:33 It's a huge step forward.
00:02:34 I mean, to produce a film that's not just, you know,
00:02:36 kind of working within the conservative ecosystem,
00:02:37 but the director on this film, Vassil Marhul,
00:02:39 was nominated for The Venice Golden Lion
00:02:41 for The Painted Bird.
00:02:42 He does an incredible job with the direction
00:02:43 because, and for those who have seen it,
00:02:45 the whole movie basically takes place in two rooms.
00:02:47 To make a movie that takes place in two rooms
00:02:49 visually compelling is nearly impossible.
00:02:51 That is all angles and lighting and decisions
00:02:53 and making the actors move in particular ways.
00:02:56 And then to have a cast that has, among the cast, seven Oscar nominations and Rob Lowe.
00:03:00 And, I mean, that's just a different level from, I think, anything, forget about Daily Wire has done, anything that I think anyone in sort of like the conservative side of the aisle in the film area has done, I hope it's the entree to doing many more things that are like that, that are quality focused.
00:03:13 Because I think that when you're making conservative film, you know, the emphasis tends to be on conservative and then film.
00:03:18 In this one, I think it may be the first thing that we've done that is really film first
00:03:24 that just happens to be deeply, deeply rooted in Christianity, by the way,
00:03:29 and deeply rooted in anti-communism and conservative values and things that really matter.
00:03:33 So I'm really proud of it.
00:03:34 This is too jubilant and sincere and exciting.
00:03:36 So before I give my first reaction when I saw the movie,
00:03:40 I would like to turn to our friend Mr. Walsh.
00:03:42 I thought it was terrible.
00:03:44 Good.
00:03:45 It was awful.
00:03:47 No, I actually, and I agree with you,
00:03:48 I think that the thing that I was surprised, a number of things surprised me.
00:03:55 I thought that things like James Franco's performance, I like James Franco as an actor.
00:04:00 The idea of him doing a villain turn as this Soviet bad guy was hard for me to wrap my head around that.
00:04:09 And I thought his performance was tremendous.
00:04:12 I actually thought he seemed like he was enjoying himself a little bit while he was doing it, which is good.
00:04:16 But you can tell the actors are really into the role.
00:04:18 even though it's really heavy and difficult material in a lot of ways.
00:04:21 So I was surprised by that.
00:04:22 These are all really good actors,
00:04:23 but I was still surprised by how well they kind of stuck the landing.
00:04:27 And then also the emotional impact.
00:04:28 So I think that I agree with you.
00:04:31 I don't want to give away the ending or anything.
00:04:32 I thought it landed the plane really well emotionally,
00:04:35 and it had a real emotional impact.
00:04:38 And I think, and I guess we'll spend time talking about the...
00:04:42 By the way, the producers have informed me.
00:04:43 They say spoilers are okay, because if you haven't seen it yet,
00:04:46 it's already been out, and you haven't seen it yet,
00:04:48 you haven't subscribed to Daily Wire and forked over your money to see a beautiful piece of art.
00:04:52 That's on you. So right now, pause this. If you haven't done it, pause this.
00:04:56 So we can spoil the ending.
00:04:58 Spoil it. The communists win. 0.92
00:05:01 Turns out James Franco is a space alien the whole time. 0.62
00:05:04 But no, so we'll spend a lot of time talking, I assume, about the messages of the film and
00:05:11 kind of the arguments it presents. But to me, I think this is part of, you know,
00:05:15 there's a conservative film, but then there's, is it, is it putting conservative first or the
00:05:19 film first? Part of putting the film first is to realize that a film is about emotion. It's
00:05:25 making you feel something. And so it's not just presenting an argument, you know, a monologue
00:05:31 presents an argument. We present arguments with our podcast. The film makes you feel the argument.
00:05:36 It's not just like you walk away from the film saying, oh, that, that, that was a correct point
00:05:41 the film made. It may even be raising points that you already sort of knew going in, but it makes
00:05:46 you feel it, like you feel it at a deeper level. It's like looking at a great painting or a
00:05:52 sculpture. It's like, it's not really presenting an argument, but you feel something that resonates
00:05:56 deeply within you. And I thought that this movie did that at a level that I wasn't expecting.
00:06:01 Drew, please insult Ben when Matt failed. I'm happy to insult Ben personally,
00:06:06 but I'll save that for later. My first reaction seriously when the thing ended was, thank God,
00:06:12 you know, because I thought, it's not that I feel that we've been turning out garbage. I feel that
00:06:16 we've been turning out conservative films in the same way that the Christians were turning out
00:06:21 Christian films, which I just, you know, I would sit there and watch those Christian films and I
00:06:25 would think, you know, I get it. It does what it's supposed to do, but I can't stand it. You know, 1.00
00:06:32 I thought, this is a good movie.
00:06:34 This is an actual good movie, and it's like a breakthrough.
00:06:38 All this time I've sort of been saying to our audience,
00:06:40 if you don't like something we put out, keep it to yourself,
00:06:43 because it's hard.
00:06:44 It's hard to do this.
00:06:45 It's hard to make a film.
00:06:46 Just gathering a cast like this, which is a really good cast,
00:06:50 is virtually, I mean, that was kind of a miraculous thing to do.
00:06:53 And it just worked.
00:06:55 And as you say, by the time it gets to those last 35, 40 minutes,
00:06:58 I was just going like, yes, this is absolutely cooking
00:07:02 on all cylinders, and it's an actual movie
00:07:04 about something that matters,
00:07:06 and about something that's incredibly relevant.
00:07:08 I thought it was taking place in the past,
00:07:09 but it turns out it's taking place in the future,
00:07:11 which is unfortunate.
00:07:13 You probably didn't know, but there it is.
00:07:15 But I just thought, geez, it's a relief.
00:07:20 It's a relief, because it's hard.
00:07:22 It's hard to do this, and I think now we have.
00:07:25 Okay, so you bring up the cast.
00:07:27 How'd you get the cast?
00:07:28 The cast is pretty...
00:07:30 It's an astonishing cast,
00:07:30 I mean, and I will say that I think that the performance is across the board.
00:07:34 We talked about Franco.
00:07:35 Rob's performance is truly the best performance of his career, like, without a doubt.
00:07:39 He's excellent, excellent.
00:07:41 The way this came about is that I wrote the script.
00:07:44 I have a visceral dislike for vanity projects for a variety of reasons.
00:07:48 And so when I wrote the script, I thought it was good, but I didn't.
00:07:51 I wanted to send it to people who knew whether it was good or not.
00:07:54 So I sent it to a very, very well-known actor who wanted to play the Vladimir part,
00:07:57 who ended up being conflicted out and couldn't play the part.
00:08:00 Once he had signed on and said, this is amazing, I love this script,
00:08:03 then I actually called up Rob, who I'd met peripherally, I believe, at a party at one point,
00:08:07 maybe an FOA event or something.
00:08:09 And I called him up, and I said to him, do you know anyone who would work with us?
00:08:13 We've got this other actor who's in.
00:08:14 I'm looking for somebody who would work with us.
00:08:16 Like kind of a Rob Lowe type.
00:08:18 No, precisely the opposite.
00:08:20 Precisely the opposite.
00:08:21 So I said to him, do you know anyone who would work with us that you can recommend?
00:08:24 Because the part does not scream Rob Lowe.
00:08:26 No.
00:08:27 Right? 0.71
00:08:27 He's an old Russian literature professor who's supposed to be an alcoholic, an itinerant NKVD informer.
00:08:33 And so he's got to look terrible.
00:08:35 And so Rob said, well, actually, can I just read it?
00:08:37 And I said, sure.
00:08:38 I'm flattered that you want to take the time.
00:08:40 He called me about an hour later, and he was teary on the phone.
00:08:43 He said, God has only touched me a couple of times in my life.
00:08:46 I feel like this script is God reaching out to me and touching me.
00:08:49 And I said, well, I mean, if you feel that way about it through the first half of the script, you really should read the last half of the script.
00:08:54 I really think that the thing built.
00:08:56 And he called back and he said,
00:08:57 I really, Ben, I don't do this.
00:09:00 I'm begging you.
00:09:01 I want to play this part.
00:09:02 I said, well, you're Rob Lowe.
00:09:03 If you ask to play the part,
00:09:04 the answer is yes,
00:09:05 but I'm just telling you,
00:09:06 you're way too handsome for this.
00:09:07 I mean, legitimately,
00:09:08 like if I were going to cast this film from scratch,
00:09:11 Rob is not in the top like 50 names
00:09:12 that I would think of for this part.
00:09:15 I'd be thinking like Gary Oldman or something,
00:09:16 you know, somebody who kind of looks broken down.
00:09:18 And I said to Rob, like,
00:09:19 you're too good looking for this. 0.99
00:09:21 We're going to have to ugly you up. 1.00
00:09:23 And Rob said, listen, I'll shave my head. 0.99
00:09:24 I'll do whatever we need to do
00:09:26 maybe I should have learned a Russian accent
00:09:28 I was like we're not going to do accents 0.99
00:09:29 but he said I'm willing to be as ugly
00:09:32 and that's why I think when you first watch it
00:09:34 and the first frame of Rob in the film
00:09:36 is him crawling into screen
00:09:38 and licking liquor from the floor
00:09:40 and it takes a second for you to realize
00:09:42 that that's Rob Lowe
00:09:43 and I've had so many people who watched the trailer for the film
00:09:46 and until it put up the title card
00:09:48 they didn't know that it was Rob
00:09:50 and so for Rob it's an unbelievable performance
00:09:52 you have him, so I have now Rob
00:09:53 and the other guy who's playing Vladimir dropped.
00:09:56 And so then we went and got Baslav as the director
00:09:58 who read it, loved it.
00:09:59 And then Franco was the next person to join on.
00:10:01 And then it was just a matter of
00:10:02 who are great character actors that we can find
00:10:04 to fill these roles.
00:10:07 And so we were lucky enough to get Nick Nolte
00:10:09 to play the elderly Jewish former Politburo member.
00:10:13 Brad Dourif, what a great actor he is.
00:10:14 Oh my God, so Brad Dourif was the last person
00:10:15 to join the cast.
00:10:16 So Brad Dourif, we had somebody
00:10:18 who actually was supposed to play that part
00:10:20 who passed away in the middle of filming.
00:10:22 And on a moment's notice, we cast Brad Dourif, who is such, I got to tell you, I personally love that casting because Brad Dourif is legitimately in my top ten greatest actors list.
00:10:32 He's the most underappreciated actor of my lifetime.
00:10:35 He can do anything.
00:10:36 I thought the great performance was Emil Hirsch.
00:10:38 Emil is fabulous.
00:10:39 I'm a big fan of his, and he kind of blew up his career in the usual Hollywood ways.
00:10:44 He threw a drink at somebody or something like that.
00:10:47 He's wonderful.
00:10:47 I didn't recognize him.
00:10:48 Yeah, he's wonderful.
00:10:49 And I think that's the thing.
00:10:50 Every actor in this movie kind of disappears into the part.
00:10:53 Yes.
00:10:53 So you don't see Robin or even Franco when you're watching that.
00:10:57 You're just watching the character.
00:10:59 And so every performance, I likened it to a baseball game where they're bringing out a reliever every inning,
00:11:04 but everyone throws 100 with a 12-6 curveball because Jennifer Jason Leigh comes in and just throws 100.
00:11:10 And Cody Smith-McPhee comes in and he throws 100.
00:11:12 And in what I think is maybe the most underappreciated performance in the thing, Richard Brake is bogged in.
00:11:17 Yeah.
00:11:17 Fabulous.
00:11:18 Richard Brake, he plays the committed Marxist.
00:11:22 And he's just, he's terrifying and he's scary, but he's also got like a core to him.
00:11:27 And the thing that I think that, Matt, you were mentioning before,
00:11:30 the reason I think that the film works is because it was not built around the arguments.
00:11:34 It was built around the characters who make the arguments.
00:11:37 And so everybody has to have a reason for the thing that they're doing.
00:11:40 And the thing that I hate when I watch a movie is when people do things for no reason
00:11:43 or when a writer writes himself into a box and then can't get out,
00:11:45 and so a character just does something dumb to get you out of the box.
00:11:47 I wanted every piece to fit.
00:11:49 So I think that, again, speaking about a film that we made,
00:11:53 but I think that by the time you get to the end,
00:11:56 there's an inevitability.
00:11:58 And a truly great film, I think, does this, or a great play.
00:12:00 You get to the end, and you might not have seen it coming,
00:12:03 but then when you look back at all the steps it took to get there,
00:12:05 it feels like every step was leading to that thing.
00:12:09 And, yeah, I think that the film accomplishes that.
00:12:12 You know, one of the reasons I really like it
00:12:14 is because it's not a movie, it's a play.
00:12:16 You just mentioned plays.
00:12:17 It reads like a play.
00:12:19 It also has more words per minute than like any,
00:12:22 well, that's very fitting for you,
00:12:24 but that's how movies used to be.
00:12:25 Like good old movies had words in them,
00:12:27 and now they just have the Hulk smashing buildings.
00:12:30 The script today is now half the length
00:12:32 that the scripts of the great movies were.
00:12:34 An old-fashioned script, it should be 250 pages.
00:12:36 You know how much,
00:12:37 one of the things that's amazing about the script,
00:12:38 this script, the total shoot script on this film
00:12:40 was 82 pages.
00:12:41 Wow, wow.
00:12:42 It's 82 pages.
00:12:43 It's just that the amount of time
00:12:45 that the actors take to chew,
00:12:48 to really grab that dialogue and grab hold of it
00:12:51 is really an amazing thing.
00:12:54 And yeah, it's much more like the studio system.
00:12:55 One of the old 1940s, 1950s studio system
00:12:58 where it's like, we have a back lot.
00:12:59 In that back lot, we have two rooms.
00:13:00 Go make a movie.
00:13:01 And so when I was writing it,
00:13:03 I was thinking because of the fact
00:13:04 that we're not the world's most gigantic,
00:13:06 we're not Netflix,
00:13:07 we're not gonna spend billions of dollars making film.
00:13:09 I started with the constraints,
00:13:10 which I always think is a fun way to do it.
00:13:12 I said, can you write a great film
00:13:14 in the minimal number of locations.
00:13:16 So the whole film is basically in two rooms.
00:13:17 There's one exterior shot in the entire film,
00:13:19 and it's not an exterior shot.
00:13:20 It's a shot through a window.
00:13:21 Okay.
00:13:22 Now, I think that's smart.
00:13:24 Like, you want meter and rhyme in poems
00:13:27 because it sets limits and things like that.
00:13:29 So I think that makes a lot of sense.
00:13:31 But can I force you to choose your favorite child?
00:13:36 The best performance in the movie,
00:13:39 or if you want to hold off,
00:13:40 you can diplomatically evade that.
00:13:41 and then also the influences for the writing itself.
00:13:45 So you set yourself these restrictions.
00:13:47 You say, we're going to shoot it in this way
00:13:49 with this budget, with these guys.
00:13:50 Okay, well, where does the story come from?
00:13:52 So, I mean, in terms of favorite performance,
00:13:54 again, it is hard to choose kind of your favorite child.
00:13:56 Listen, Rob has to hold that thing down the whole way.
00:13:59 I mean, Rob is in every scene in the film.
00:14:01 And so the fact that he has to be the center,
00:14:03 because he's quiet, right?
00:14:06 He could shoot the scenery, and he doesn't.
00:14:07 He's quiet, and so that allows for Franco
00:14:09 to do kind of pyrotechnic things on screen,
00:14:12 and it allows for Richard Brake to go off.
00:14:14 And all of that is really generous for Rob as an actor
00:14:18 because most actors, you know,
00:14:19 you want to be the center of attention.
00:14:20 And so for you to be sacrificial enough to be like,
00:14:22 okay, this is your moment to shine.
00:14:24 And everybody sort of,
00:14:25 I think one of the reasons the actors signed on
00:14:27 is because every actor gets a really, really meaty bit.
00:14:30 Like there's kind of no actors in it
00:14:32 who don't have a thing to do that actors would want to do.
00:14:35 But yeah, I mean,
00:14:36 as far as the kind of literary influences of it.
00:14:38 So some of it's drawn from nonfiction.
00:14:39 The story that Nick Nolte's character tells about the Ukraine and the Holodomar, the Ukrainian famine, some of that's taken directly from Timothy Snyder's Blood Lens.
00:14:49 The sort of initial setup is obviously heavily influenced by Darkness at Noon by Arthur Kessler.
00:14:57 There's segments where I literally pay, I drop like little references for those who are watching to Russian literature in names.
00:15:04 So one of the people whose name is dropped is a professor whose name is Strum.
00:15:08 Strum is a reference to a character in Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman.
00:15:11 Obviously, lots of Dostoevsky in there, some Chekhov in there, some Pushkin in there.
00:15:16 Like, the most heavy references are obvious, right?
00:15:19 They're all to Dostoevsky, and the entire last part of the film is revolving around Dostoevsky's large-scale argument about God and about Christ and about the individual versus the state.
00:15:30 But, yeah, I think the influences are pretty clear.
00:15:33 And, again, I'm not going to hide the fact that if I'm going to steal, I'm going to steal from the best.
00:15:36 If I'm going to crib great ideas, go to the people who actually have had them.
00:15:40 There are very few new ideas that are floating around.
00:15:42 You know, I think that's the reason that the movie appealed to Matt 0.92
00:15:44 is because, well, one, it's extremely grim in Russian.
00:15:47 But I remember when I had you on the book show, 0.84
00:15:50 I said, what book do you want to do?
00:15:51 And you said, oh, well, it's got to be, you know,
00:15:53 the go-to immediately is The Death of Ivan Ilyich by Tolstoy.
00:15:57 One of my favorite works of fiction.
00:15:58 One of the great shipper novels.
00:16:01 Yeah, yeah.
00:16:02 I mean, yes, I did appreciate that.
00:16:04 It feels grim and depressing, but then at the end, you find some hope in it.
00:16:13 And I really appreciated when you were talking about the first scene,
00:16:16 the very first shot of Rob Lowe licking the vodka off of the ground.
00:16:22 I thought that was a really effective move, and it's the one,
00:16:26 you mentioned the Christian faith-based films, and often they don't work.
00:16:31 They often don't work at all for me.
00:16:33 And there's a lot of reasons for that. One of them, though, is that very often Christian and conservative films are afraid to make the protagonist, give the protagonist a real flaw, like make this an actually flawed person, not in a kind of glossy, glittery way, not in a superficial way, but make this like a pathetic, flawed person.
00:17:00 The reason why Dostoevsky is so brilliant or Tolstoy is brilliant is because their protagonists are sometimes awful people.
00:17:10 I mean, these are people that are utterly and totally broken.
00:17:14 Like an axe murderer.
00:17:15 Like an axe murderer, yes.
00:17:17 So that way, if you can find a way to redeem this person, it just lands a whole lot better.
00:17:25 So the first thing we're going to see with this guy is he's licking vodka off the floor.
00:17:29 This is a pathetic human being, utterly broken, and so can you take us from that to finding redemption for him, which is, I imagine, a fun writing challenge, and if you can pull it off, then it will land with the audience in a way that a lot of these films sometimes don't, because they're just, you're afraid, I think conservatives can be afraid to make the protagonist flawed because they're afraid that, I guess, I don't know, the audience will be offended or we won't want to root for them or something.
00:17:59 And that's just not how good films work.
00:18:02 And, you know, your reference to Darkness at Noon, which I thought the film's almost an homage to Darkness at Noon.
00:18:08 Yes, for sure.
00:18:09 But I think you may be the only person I've ever talked to where I said, oh, you know, there's this wonderful book, Darkness at Noon.
00:18:16 And you knew it backwards and forwards.
00:18:17 I have a signed copy.
00:18:18 Yeah, you have a signed copy.
00:18:19 Oh, I didn't know that.
00:18:20 I have a nice book collection of, like, my favorite novels and now also scripts.
00:18:24 Like, I just recently got A Man for All Season signed by Robert Bolt.
00:18:27 Cool, yeah.
00:18:28 or Amadeus, signed by Peter Schaefer.
00:18:30 But yeah, I have a signed copy of Solzhenitsyn.
00:18:33 But this is a book that is almost forgotten.
00:18:36 It's a classic, I think.
00:18:36 It's an actual classic.
00:18:37 It's an amazing book.
00:18:38 And it's almost forgotten.
00:18:39 And when you watch these kids talking about socialism
00:18:42 and all this,
00:18:43 and when you see socialist candidates
00:18:45 putting themselves forward,
00:18:46 you think, how did we forget?
00:18:47 You forget because you don't read.
00:18:49 You forget because you don't hear.
00:18:50 So the fact that you're bringing these arguments back
00:18:52 is, I think, urgently important, obviously.
00:18:55 I think one of the things that's fun about the film
00:18:57 in the sense is that I'm hoping that it's a gateway drug
00:18:59 for people to actually go and read a little bit.
00:19:01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:01 Meaning like there's a lot of,
00:19:03 I'm not talking down to the audience.
00:19:05 I'm saying like rise to the level of the people
00:19:07 who are actually talking in the film.
00:19:08 So they're making open references to literature
00:19:11 and you may not get all of those.
00:19:12 I mean, like my wife watched the movie
00:19:13 and she doesn't understand every single reference
00:19:15 because she doesn't read Russian literature.
00:19:16 Yeah.
00:19:16 And so, but she knows enough of what's going on
00:19:19 that it doesn't inhibit the plot.
00:19:20 It doesn't inhibit the character development at all.
00:19:22 No, no, I didn't think so.
00:19:22 But I think that it is an invitation to engage
00:19:25 with the greatest ideas in human history
00:19:27 and the greatest writing in human history.
00:19:30 And so doing that, I think,
00:19:32 is a well-worthwhile sort of secondary assignment for folks.
00:19:34 Yeah, yeah.
00:19:35 And anything about Dostoevsky has got me already.
00:19:38 Of course, yeah, of course.
00:19:39 It's annoying because Dostoevsky's right about everything,
00:19:42 but Tolstoy observes human nature
00:19:44 better than Dostoevsky does.
00:19:46 Anyway, they complement each other very well.
00:19:48 You mentioned the kind of modern tie-ins here,
00:19:51 and we were joking at the top
00:19:53 that this is a great insight into the prisons that we're all going to be going to. But obviously,
00:20:00 that's been building for a while, the attractiveness of socialism, the fact that the
00:20:05 DSA is now more popular with mainstream Dems than the Democrats on Capitol Hill are. So why do it?
00:20:12 Obviously, when I first read this, I thought, okay, this is great, especially because it is
00:20:17 in many ways an homage to Arthur Kessler and Darkness at Noon. But why resurrect this kind
00:20:24 of a storyline from this great work from the mid-20th century about events that were happening
00:20:29 in the early to mid-20th century? Why now? Is it because of AOC, basically?
00:20:34 It really wasn't. I mean, I don't think that I was sitting there and consciously thinking,
00:20:37 okay, the Democrats are moving in this socialistic direction, need to write something about socialism.
00:20:41 There are just certain periods in human history, I think, that because all of us are in the news
00:20:45 every single day. And if you read history, then you just spot echoes. And those echoes just
00:20:50 resonate, not even because you're thinking about what's going on, but just like you'll be walking
00:20:53 around like, oh, my gosh, this is so reminiscent of an event that I remember reading about from
00:20:58 1932. And so I just been reading a ton of this specifically because I've been so concerned
00:21:03 about everything that's sort of going on. And when you have all that percolating in your brain,
00:21:08 that's the way that it comes out. And it was funny when you first looked at the script. So
00:21:11 So I didn't, I'm on the board, but I can't approve my own script for production, right?
00:21:15 So it was the rest of it.
00:21:17 Everyone else decided to approve the script for production.
00:21:19 And there were questions like, is this a square enough hit with the audience that will actually drive them?
00:21:26 And that's a totally relevant question you have to ask as a business.
00:21:29 Like, is this well within sort of the Overton window of what our audience is willing to watch and listen to?
00:21:35 And when I was sort of forced to give the elevator pitch for this, for people who are just mostly politically conservative and not driven by it's just a great movie, the elevator pitch for it is it's the single most anti-communist pro-Christian film probably ever made, which I think is actually a fair characterization of the thing. 0.51
00:21:50 I mean, we will talk about the communism of it, but, I mean, you're the Christians in the room.
00:21:54 I think it is fair to say that it is the most robust defense of Christianity since The Passion of the Rise. 0.86
00:21:58 Well, I think you're obligated now to convert, though. 0.89
00:22:01 I just watched it and I thought, the guy has no argument.
00:22:03 We have not evangelized this man because we're so polite and nice, you know, we like him and all this stuff.
00:22:09 But after watching this, I thought, no, wait a minute.
00:22:11 I'm sorry.
00:22:11 So my actual reaction, which I texted you after I watched the movie, was, you know, I said, I like this part, this part, this part.
00:22:17 Also, which parish have you been going to without telling any of us?
00:22:22 It was really, because it wasn't, it hit two things that I thought were really important.
00:22:27 One, when we talk about communism, the kind of boomer conservative beltway thing is to say, dude, you don't understand.
00:22:33 communism doesn't work, and, you know, the collectivist economics is going to destroy
00:22:37 the economy, and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, I don't, yeah, I do want low taxes. I agree,
00:22:42 but life is about more than mammon and material. The essential problem with communism is not just
00:22:48 the economic disadvantage. All those things come later. It's that it hates God. You know,
00:22:54 it's like Marx hates God. That's what it's all about. The other thing that got me, though,
00:22:58 is, you know, I don't mean to pick on these Christian films, because I think they did an 0.97
00:23:01 important thing you i think you do mean i just don't like them but but the one one of the things
00:23:07 that always gets me is they don't hit one of the key aspects of christianity and i think this is
00:23:13 true of a lot of american christians is that it hurts it costs you know it's a sacrifice and i
00:23:19 think that's so much i always think of that scene in uh um god is not dead where the guy finally
00:23:25 converts accepts god and gets hit by a truck and people say like oh well at least he's saved i
00:23:30 But he's dead, you know?
00:23:31 Can we talk about that?
00:23:32 Can we call his wife first, you know?
00:23:34 And I think, like, no, this is like, this actually gets at the fact that Christianity, if you follow it, if you follow Jesus Christ, it's going to cost you. 0.51
00:23:43 And I think in a lot of American Christianity, it's like you want to have your Christ but eat your cake, you know?
00:23:48 And I think that that's not what this says, which is just like a relief. 0.70
00:23:52 Well, I mean, again, that is a perspective that is extremely home to Judaism, right?
00:23:57 So my own personal perspective, you know, that to me, one of the key aspects of religion is what are you willing to sacrifice for?
00:24:03 What are you willing to do to say the thing that, you know, in your heart is true?
00:24:08 And, you know, I think that the the sort of final confrontation between Franco and Rob, this kind of long scene where Franco is beating the living hell out of it.
00:24:19 And he's taking the side of the Inquisitor in the in the in the Grand Inquisitor from Karamazov.
00:24:23 And he's making an argument. And that's what he's saying.
00:24:25 He's saying, listen, you know, like, you're asking me to sacrifice everything.
00:24:31 And Rob is like, well, yeah, that is the thing that we're asking you to sacrifice.
00:24:35 Yes, everything.
00:24:36 Yes, yeah.
00:24:37 And then when Rob actually does that, it was fun to write this because I'm sure because so many of us have written various creative works that, you know, there's always a moment.
00:24:47 it happens where you stumble on a great idea while you're writing and you kind of chuckle
00:24:53 to yourself because this is a great thing. That happened to me with reasons to vote for
00:24:57 Democrats. Exactly. It hit me. I remember sitting there the moment I realized that I was going to
00:25:03 have Rob atone to James, right? That I was going to have the main character, Alexei, atone to
00:25:11 Vladimir. That had been buried the whole time. And of course, the whole script, I think, was a
00:25:17 four-day process it was very very fast wow um that's long for you yeah a little bit but yeah
00:25:21 like four days four days is yeah quick um but i remember when that happened i thought like
00:25:26 but that's what he's called to do like the whole thing is redeeming yourself how do you redeem
00:25:30 yourself you redeem yourself by repenting how do you repent you actually have to repent you actually
00:25:34 have to do the thing yeah and so that's what's so resentful about his character arc is that you go
00:25:39 from thinking this is the good guy who's standing up in the face of the evil state to realizing this
00:25:42 is a flawed guy who actually does need to do the thing that he does at the end that's why it's
00:25:46 redemptive yeah you know you don't like that again spoiling the film if you haven't seen it
00:25:51 spoiler alert like a thousand times over but at the end the main character doesn't like go home
00:25:56 happy and that's not what happens yeah no this is this is the moment i mean one it calls to mind
00:26:01 real saints not like saints in hallmark movies but like real saints who have problems yeah who
00:26:07 was it john vianney saint john vianney who said the saints didn't all start well but they all
00:26:11 ended well. And so this guy has this saintly aspect to him by the end. And so to your point
00:26:19 on the inevitability of the character arc, he gets there at the end and you've all seen the movie.
00:26:23 And if you haven't, you subscribe to dailywire.com slash subscribe. We appreciate it greatly and
00:26:28 you'll enjoy it and be edified by it. By the end, he's standing there and he says, I'm going to
00:26:33 confess. And in the four senses of texts, this has a double meaning where he's confessing to
00:26:41 this crime against the state, but he's also confessing his faith. And so he's confessing to
00:26:47 Walter White's brother. And so he's confessing to this, you know, drug agent from Albuquerque.
00:26:55 Yeah. And so, but anyway, he's confessing there. And you have this thought as the audience member,
00:26:59 which is, well, hold on, why he got off. And maybe he could fulfill his penance and, you know,
00:27:07 live at his faith later, and maybe he could reconcile with his wife, and maybe he could
00:27:11 reconcile with his kid, and maybe he could do some more good by just saying, look, all right,
00:27:15 the priest is already on the boxcars, and look, James Franco is getting what's coming to him
00:27:21 anyway. I don't really feel bad for him. Why does he, but then you think, well, hold on.
00:27:26 He's going to, if he lets that happen, he's going to walk out of the commissar's room,
00:27:32 and he's going to be dead. He'll be spiritually dead. He actually, this is the moment. This 0.92
00:27:37 is what he's called for. This is the question, you know, faith without works is dead. You know,
00:27:42 your faith produces works. Okay, well, here you are. Are you going to make your confession
00:27:46 of the actual crime you have committed, the civil crime, you know, the violation of the
00:27:50 civil law that you've committed, and the true confession of your faith to a man that you could
00:27:54 be evangelizing? Because in the moment, he's evangelizing the commissar most directly,
00:27:58 and he's evangelizing indirectly James Franco, who might discover his faith.
00:28:02 The moment where they're walking down the hallway, and he leans over and he kisses
00:28:06 Franco on the forehead. And I remember, again, writing that and thinking to myself, that's well
00:28:11 played. Because that is a signal. They're both literary students. They've just had this gigantic
00:28:16 debate over Dostoevsky, and particularly over Karamazov. And so that is a signal to Franco,
00:28:22 go home and read. He's saying to him, and Franco picks up the signal, and he goes home.
00:28:27 Tole lege.
00:28:28 Yeah, go home and take a look. And he goes home, and he picks up the signal, and that's why he's
00:28:32 reading the book at the end, he's reading that exact segment, that is the very end of the Grand
00:28:37 Inquisitor, which again is where basically Christ's love conquers the evil sadism and power, the pure
00:28:44 power of the state. There's also, it just occurs to me now, his son, Rob Lowe's son, disses him and
00:28:51 doesn't get anything and is just a total lost soul. And you have this kind of adopted son with
00:28:57 the student who comes in,
00:28:59 and he, with this beautiful filial kiss at the end
00:29:02 that really calls tears to the eyes,
00:29:03 you have this sense of adoption,
00:29:07 which is in itself a profoundly,
00:29:09 essentially Christian theme.
00:29:10 Yeah, there's certain things
00:29:12 that Voslov as a director did in the film
00:29:14 that are not written in the script.
00:29:15 And one of the things that he did is in the scene,
00:29:18 which is, again, it's brilliantly directed.
00:29:20 Like, to understand how brilliantly directed,
00:29:21 so he also filmed it in the weirdest way possible.
00:29:23 So this thing was filmed in 35 millimeter,
00:29:25 like actual film, not digital.
00:29:27 And the way that he filmed was instead of filming full scenes with the camera on Franco and then full scenes with the film on Rob and then cutting it together, he filmed two minute segments and then he would stop and then he would break and then they would do the next two minutes.
00:29:42 And so he what he was doing there is he wants every instead of you're trying to sustain, especially the first scene, 20 minutes or 15 minutes or whatever it is of, you know, intense dialogue.
00:29:53 It's like, I need you to sustain this for two minutes.
00:29:55 I need you to, like, bring your fastball for two minutes.
00:29:57 And at the time, Dal Sonja, who was the producer on it,
00:30:01 he and I looked at each other like,
00:30:02 this is the weirdest thing I've ever seen.
00:30:03 And then it stitched together,
00:30:05 and you're like, the intensity of the performances is astonishing.
00:30:07 Well, you know what I need you to bring right now, Ben?
00:30:09 I need you to bring the intensity of your performance
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00:31:14 Can I say about the director?
00:31:16 I think I texted you after I watched it that the other thing that impressed me was it moves.
00:31:25 It feels like the movie's moving, and it keeps the camera moving a lot.
00:31:29 And so even though you're trapped in this, it's not just that you're in one location.
00:31:35 It's not just one or two rooms.
00:31:36 These are drab, nondescript, dreary, gray rooms.
00:31:41 It's a dungeon.
00:31:41 Yeah, it's literally, it's a dungeon.
00:31:43 So it'd be very easy to shoot that in a way where even if the dialogue is great, even if the performances are great, it just feels static and it becomes oppressive to just sit there and watch it.
00:31:53 But it seems like you found a way to just keep the thing moving so that it didn't feel like you were sort of claustrophobic.
00:32:00 There's no score to the film.
00:32:01 Huh.
00:32:02 There's music at the very beginning and there's music at the very end.
00:32:04 And that's the entirety of the music.
00:32:06 Yeah.
00:32:06 I didn't notice that.
00:32:07 Right.
00:32:07 And when I was first watching it, it's because he's basically doing choreography.
00:32:11 He's basically dancing with you with the camera.
00:32:14 It's such an incredible thing that he's doing there.
00:32:16 It really is amazing.
00:32:17 I noticed that, too, and that's really hard to pull off, not having a score.
00:32:24 I think that, I mean, not to be critical of our own work, but I think we tried that in Terror on the Prairie.
00:32:31 Yeah, yeah, they did.
00:32:33 And in that movie, I think it doesn't work.
00:32:36 I think that movie needed a score.
00:32:37 Most movies do. 0.89
00:32:38 um no country for old men my favorite movie of all time has no score and it just absolutely works
00:32:44 because the score is you know it's the wind it's the it's the tension in the room it's like when 0.96
00:32:50 he when he when he flicks the quarter up and it hits the the table like that's part of the score
00:32:55 of this of the movie and um in this case yeah it really it really does work and you would think
00:33:00 that it wouldn't simply because there's not a lot of ambient so one of the problems of being in a
00:33:06 dungeon. There's also not, at least with No Country for Old Men, you've got the wind and
00:33:11 you're out in the desert and stuff. But there's not a lot of ambient noise either. And so it
00:33:17 really has to be carried by the dialogue and it has to be carried by the visuals and the movement
00:33:22 of the camera. I think he does a tremendous job. And he's also got that scene, I wrote you about
00:33:26 it, I think, or maybe I told you about it on the phone, where in the very opening, they put him in
00:33:31 a small cell, a stand-up cell.
00:33:33 And I have just a trace of claustrophobia.
00:33:36 You know, I've been in caves and things like that,
00:33:38 and I just don't like it very much.
00:33:40 And I have to say, I had to stand up when I was watching,
00:33:44 and I just thought, ah, you know, I don't like that.
00:33:45 It's a total Václav edition, by the way.
00:33:47 When I first wrote the script, that wasn't in there.
00:33:48 And Václav said, hey, you know,
00:33:49 so one of the things that Václav really gets about this,
00:33:51 which is, he's from Eastern Europe,
00:33:53 so he grew up under communism.
00:33:55 So one thing he gets is everything about it.
00:33:57 Yeah.
00:33:58 For sure.
00:33:58 And so he said, you know,
00:34:00 there are these standing cells that were in LaBianca.
00:34:02 Can you write that in the script?
00:34:03 He said, absolutely.
00:34:03 Or that'd take me five minutes.
00:34:04 I'll just put that in the script.
00:34:05 That is so creepy, right?
00:34:07 It's so creepy.
00:34:07 They put him in, you know, a cell
00:34:09 that is legitimately not big enough.
00:34:11 And these were real.
00:34:12 They would put you in there for like a day.
00:34:14 And you couldn't sit down.
00:34:15 You couldn't lie down.
00:34:16 You basically are just slumped against the wall,
00:34:18 stuffed into something that's half the size
00:34:20 of a telephone booth.
00:34:21 And, you know, there are things he's doing there.
00:34:23 And the thing I was going to mention that he does
00:34:25 is because you're mentioning his son
00:34:26 and the kind of juxtaposition of Franco and Cody
00:34:29 in terms of the switch in character.
00:34:32 In the scene where Rob is talking to his son,
00:34:36 he's talking to his son,
00:34:37 and one thing that's not in the script
00:34:38 is all these cutaway shots to Franco.
00:34:41 If you watch the film,
00:34:42 you can see Franco reacting to the thing
00:34:43 that Rob is saying.
00:34:44 So Rob is not talking to Franco.
00:34:46 Rob is talking to Cody,
00:34:48 but in the script,
00:34:50 there's no reference to what's going on with Franco.
00:34:51 Franco, there are a bunch of cutaways,
00:34:53 and you can see that what Rob is saying to Cody
00:34:54 is actually kind of hitting with Franco.
00:34:56 You can see that he's actually
00:34:58 like a little curious kind of like mildly interested but again this whole the whole cat
00:35:02 and mouse of the thing that's what i love the most like the the in the first scene where you
00:35:06 can see the dynamics shifting with every line where there's a point where it's like frank was
00:35:11 in total control he's got rob off off his guard and then rob says what do you make of this
00:35:16 particular analysis of of crime and punishment and he says what does it matter what i think and
00:35:21 he says because you have a soul and you see for the first time that rob is now in the inferior
00:35:25 position and it pisses him off and you can see that he's like a the james is in the inferior
00:35:30 position it pisses him off and you can see he wants to like get up and hit him and you can feel
00:35:34 that it's i i love that stuff i think it's just the the scene so you're saying that when he's in
00:35:40 the little tiny narrow cell that wasn't originally in the script correct that that's really interesting
00:35:44 to me because for me that ended up being from from my experience as an audience member that was
00:35:50 a really important scene in a kind of understated way because it was in that moment. I had the same
00:35:58 kind of physical reaction to it. And so now I'm just from seeing that scene of him trapped in
00:36:04 this little narrow room, now I'm invested. I feel bad for the guy. And so it almost becomes,
00:36:11 I don't fully subscribe to the kind of save the cat model where you have to have the save the cat
00:36:14 moment, but it kind of is that. It's the thing I see early on where, man, I kind of
00:36:20 Like, I felt that.
00:36:21 I felt that myself.
00:36:22 I felt myself being trapped in that little dungeon.
00:36:25 And so now I'm kind of with this guy, and I feel bad for him.
00:36:28 And so it kind of worked in that way.
00:36:31 Yeah.
00:36:32 There are a bunch of these kind of, like, minor things, but they're not minor at all because it's a lot of touches that Voslav would suggest or that the actors would suggest.
00:36:39 Like, in the script, it's like, okay.
00:36:41 And so James takes the glass, and he pours it full of vodka, and then he pushes it over to Rob.
00:36:48 Because I don't like describing physical action in my scripts.
00:36:50 because it's boring to me.
00:36:52 The dialogue is interesting to me.
00:36:53 And so what James does when he does that,
00:36:56 he takes the glass and he starts swirling it slowly
00:36:58 in front of Rob, right?
00:37:01 Like that's an actor's decision to do that.
00:37:03 There's a couple of other things where, you know,
00:37:06 Voslav is saying, listen, this is great dialogue,
00:37:07 but they can't just sit there and talk at each other
00:37:09 for 15 minutes in a room.
00:37:10 It's too boring.
00:37:10 I need them to move around.
00:37:11 So there's one time when I was on the set,
00:37:13 he calls me over and he says, listen,
00:37:15 I want James to tell Rob to kneel.
00:37:19 And I said, it's too early in the script for him to physically intimidate him, right?
00:37:22 It kind of escalates.
00:37:23 The first scene is intellectual kind of gamesmanship.
00:37:27 The second scene is I'm going to use your family as a pressure tactic.
00:37:29 And by the third kind of major encounter, or fourth, because you have the wife and then the son,
00:37:34 by the fourth major encounter, you get to like down to brass tacks. 0.99
00:37:37 I need to beat the living crap out of you. 0.99
00:37:38 But the physical intimidation is too early. 0.99
00:37:41 And so he said, well, I can't have him still sitting there.
00:37:44 How do we get him in a kneeling position?
00:37:46 Like, can I just have him tell him to kneel?
00:37:48 And I said, don't do that, it's too much.
00:37:50 He said, what if I have him ask Rob to kneel?
00:37:53 What if I say, kneel, please, right?
00:37:57 And the please is more scary and intimidating
00:38:00 than just if he told them to kneel.
00:38:02 And so now you have that image of Rob kneeling
00:38:05 and Franco standing above him,
00:38:08 you know, as he's reading the pamphlet, right?
00:38:10 And like, it was moves like that.
00:38:12 So it really is an extraordinarily cooperative process
00:38:15 that has required me.
00:38:15 And again, you've done it many more times than I have.
00:38:17 But it's always kind of astonishing.
00:38:19 Well, it's astonishing what actors do.
00:38:22 It's astonishing that actors take your words.
00:38:24 And it's not like they change the meaning of them, but they give them this humanity.
00:38:28 And as you say, it's a very humbling process because you sit there in a room by yourself and you write this thing down.
00:38:34 And then, you know, Michael Caine or somebody just takes it and you're like, oh, my God.
00:38:39 I didn't even think of that way of reading the line, and now you're reading the line that way.
00:38:42 Yeah, like he added the word Batman.
00:38:44 It's so amazing.
00:38:45 but he said it with like this weird accent too you know yes no and being me you know i would
00:38:50 sit on a plane sometimes and they'd be playing a film that i had been involved with and i'd be
00:38:55 thinking there's a beautiful girl having my words going into her ear do you know your business card
00:39:03 just falls oh i'm so embarrassed i dropped my i dropped my sorry my wga membership card oh wow
00:39:09 what are the odds that you're watching so on this point of like the this fictional world that
00:39:15 created, this, you know, living truthfully in imaginary circumstances. The whole movie is
00:39:20 grounded in very real historical moments and places. Where's the line there? Or is it all,
00:39:28 it's all, it all basically could have happened. So the, the, the line is that when you're
00:39:32 dramatizing something like this, that you have to play with the setting. So I would say that in
00:39:37 LaBianca, the chances that you would ever have one prisoner being brought down the hallway,
00:39:41 a narrow hallway, the other prisoners bring brought the other way, probably pretty low.
00:39:43 because they had procedures that would probably prevent that.
00:39:46 It doesn't matter. You've got to do it.
00:39:47 It's necessary for the drama.
00:39:49 In LaBianca, would you really have had four people all who have beds
00:39:53 or would you have two people in beds and then the next room has two?
00:39:56 It's sort of like formalistic stuff like that.
00:39:58 And you know you're messing around with the place.
00:40:00 But again, it's more of like the gestalt of what is LaBianca like
00:40:03 rather than, you know, do we have a blueprint of LaBianca?
00:40:09 Some of the aspects are obviously incredibly accurate.
00:40:11 The creepiest shot in the film, which is as Rob is coming down toward the actual place where they're going to murder him, and you've got the guy with the mop mopping up the floor, which is a super creepy shot.
00:40:23 That's accurate. 0.78
00:40:24 We actually looked at pictures of the LaBianca at the time.
00:40:27 The art direction on this is amazing.
00:40:29 The person who was actually doing all of the reconstruction and accuracy was working off of legit pictures of LaBianca.
00:40:35 And the whole set was built from scratch.
00:40:38 This is all on a soundstage in L.A.
00:40:40 And so they literally just put together
00:40:41 every single bit of it,
00:40:43 and then when it was done,
00:40:44 they deconstructed it and it just went away
00:40:45 and no longer existed.
00:40:46 It's pretty incredible.
00:40:48 That's beautiful,
00:40:49 because that is something that our audience,
00:40:51 I think, is going to care about
00:40:53 and conservatives care about,
00:40:54 because conservatives,
00:40:56 I mean, you knock me for this all the time,
00:40:57 because I'm a Philistine,
00:40:58 and we don't read fiction,
00:41:00 and if a conservative is going to read,
00:41:01 he's going to read nonfiction.
00:41:03 Conservatives tend to prefer,
00:41:05 like your run-of-the-mill conservative
00:41:07 prefers the literal to the figurative
00:41:09 or the abstract, and so the grounding in that kind of reality and practicality, I think, matters
00:41:15 because, I don't know, am I overstating it to say that our political opponents these days would put
00:41:20 us all up against the wall? I mean, some of them are openly saying this. Some of them would be
00:41:25 happy to do it. I don't think that's overstating it at all. I think that they are hemmed in by
00:41:30 good grace from saying the thing, but some of them not even by that. I mean, they celebrated
00:41:35 charlie kirk's death it's the reaction to charlie's murder you know where you had huge uh numbers of
00:41:40 of leftists who were like not just wackos on the internet it's not just hassan no that's that's
00:41:45 the terrible thing that's it's like the lady who sits next to you at work i mean she was doing it
00:41:49 too speaking of hassan piker by the way did you do you see hassan piker react to the trailer for
00:41:54 your movie do we have it yes your eyes are not deceiving you rob lowe is starring in a screenplay
00:42:02 written by
00:42:03 Benjamin Shapiro
00:42:05 and he's not alone
00:42:12 in this production
00:42:13 you'll see some other
00:42:15 notable faces
00:42:17 what is going on
00:42:28 brother what the
00:42:29 is happening
00:42:30 that's right it's james franco
00:42:34 professor 0.98
00:42:44 let me out you will remember your duty this isn't heroism you useless sot you sit there and shake 1.00
00:42:59 because you're dependent on drink you're sick is all over you 0.99
00:43:04 like this is an actual cast this is an actual cast dean norris dude dean norris
00:43:19 emile hirsch
00:43:20 dean norris have you ever seen a child starved to death professor no i have
00:43:44 come on it's ai slop no this is a real movie what are you talking about
00:43:50 I'm most fascinated, not, I mean, it's funny that he thinks it's a good movie
00:43:55 and you're seeing that subverted expectation and all that.
00:43:59 Who watches that?
00:44:00 This guy is just sitting there.
00:44:02 He has no talent.
00:44:02 I never realized that.
00:44:03 He's just sitting there silently.
00:44:05 We're like having the opposite reaction that he had to the movie,
00:44:07 but he's just sitting there silently repeating himself
00:44:10 as if he's currently incurring brain damage.
00:44:14 And people, you can see the thing is ticking up of viewers.
00:44:18 So somebody is watching this.
00:44:19 Why would you watch that?
00:44:21 I mean, I watched that for the amusement.
00:44:22 That was funny. 0.99
00:44:22 That clip by Israel.
00:44:23 It was funny. 0.59
00:44:24 That was funny.
00:44:25 Who would watch like an hour of that?
00:44:26 I had no idea he was so untalented.
00:44:27 I thought, like, he must have some talent to be that popular, but no.
00:44:31 It's a phenomenon.
00:44:32 Why are people watching? 1.00
00:44:33 I don't want to talk about your stupid movie anymore. 1.00
00:44:35 I want to talk about his really stupid show. 1.00
00:44:37 My favorite thing is that he then went on in that clip to say, 1.00
00:44:42 who is this even for?
00:44:44 Who wants to watch it?
00:44:45 And I was like, you.
00:44:47 He has a flag of communist China in his studio behind him.
00:44:51 I'm not even kidding.
00:44:52 So, like, you, my dude.
00:44:53 It was for you.
00:44:54 It was my gift to you.
00:44:55 Rooting for...
00:44:56 Like, James Franco is such a great protagonist in this movie.
00:44:59 It's amazing.
00:45:00 Yeah, yeah.
00:45:00 It's a hero.
00:45:01 Hero of the film.
00:45:02 But, you know, this is this article that was on RCP.
00:45:04 I don't know where it originated.
00:45:05 Of somebody saying, we cannot live with Ben Shapiro being a major Hollywood player.
00:45:13 And they really do feel that way, by the way.
00:45:15 They really can't live with it.
00:45:16 But it's another part of this is that, I hate to say this, but up until now, they've been able to ignore what we do, which is their first, it's always their first line of defense, just to completely ignore you, you know.
00:45:31 I mean, ever since I came out as a conservative, my book stopped getting reviewed, you know, in major, but I don't think they can do that with this.
00:45:37 I think that they're going to have to at least attack you.
00:45:40 It's kind of impressive.
00:45:41 The outrage level at the release of the trailer was kind of astonishing.
00:45:44 Some of the stuff that we do is half troll-y, right?
00:45:46 Right, right. 1.00
00:45:47 Infidels, of course, there's going to be outrage. 1.00
00:45:48 It was designed to be outrageous. 1.00
00:45:49 Yeah.
00:45:50 And that's what it is.
00:45:51 This, I think that the fact that people were so angry at it, I think, was indicative of
00:45:56 the fact that they were feeling pretty threatened by the fact that we're playing in their sandbox.
00:46:01 And listen, it makes a big difference to have professional actors saying and doing things.
00:46:05 You need people who are good at things.
00:46:07 Yeah.
00:46:07 This is one of the things that I'm hoping that we, and not hoping, we are doing this moving
00:46:11 forward.
00:46:12 We want people who are not good by, quote-unquote, conservative standards.
00:46:16 We want people who are just the best at what they do and who will work with us.
00:46:20 That's it.
00:46:21 Those are the only requirements.
00:46:23 And even though they don't have to be names, it's good that they're names,
00:46:26 but it's also true that really good actors tend to become names at some level.
00:46:31 Yeah, or faces.
00:46:33 When I talk with Dallas about how we're going to cast all of our films,
00:46:35 one of the things that I usually say is, he has what he calls the Louisiana cousin test,
00:46:39 which is like would my louisiana cousin know who that person is all right and it's and it's sort
00:46:44 of an interesting test because there are certain people who you know your louisiana cousin would
00:46:47 know who are less famous as quote-unquote actors but they would know like so your louisiana cousin
00:46:53 might have seen star wars as a kid knows who hayden christensen is but has no clue who zendaya
00:46:57 is really like that like and so so picking people who the audience will know or faces they can
00:47:04 recognize it needs to be somebody who you can look and like a that guy right a that guy like
00:47:08 oh it's that guy and so when you're watching this film it's it's one of the fun surprises
00:47:13 of the film is you're watching like oh my god is that is that nick nolte like i that i'm pretty
00:47:18 sure that's nick nolte like i didn't like when you're first when he's first there he's in shadow
00:47:21 he's in the bed you can't see him at all and and then you start to realize oh wait that is nick
00:47:26 nolte or oh my god that's why the big reveal that freaked people out in the trailer was when franco
00:47:30 sits down when franco sits down and you see his face and like oh my they got like an actual movie
00:47:35 star. Yeah. And they got like many actual movie stars. It's a big deal. No, this is kind of it's
00:47:40 a great movie to lie back in your bed and watch on the TV. And you'll you'll sit up even though
00:47:45 you'll be totally ensconced in your Bowling Branch sheets. But so you'll feel great even as
00:47:49 your as your shock registers on your face. We've all gotten to try different things from Bowling
00:47:54 Branch. So I'm curious, folks, what is your favorite Bowling Branch product, Drew?
00:48:01 Mine, it's the sheets.
00:48:04 I mean, because I lie awake all night.
00:48:06 I do not sleep.
00:48:07 And I always feel guilty selling these to people because I know they're so comfortable they'll just fall asleep.
00:48:11 But I get to experience them, and they're really nice.
00:48:14 I think I have almost all of the Bowling Branch products, and I've gotten some for free.
00:48:18 I've also bought Bowling Branch products, even though I'm a cheapskate, because they're the best.
00:48:21 They are actually the best.
00:48:24 Yes.
00:48:24 What say you, Drew?
00:48:25 What does the teleprompter say for you?
00:48:27 Well, you know, like I said, I can't sleep most, I really don't sleep very much at all.
00:48:32 I mean, I'm Donald Trumpian in my sleep habits, but I want to be comfortable because I'm actually
00:48:37 lying there.
00:48:37 I don't get up and do things, you know, I don't, I don't want to tweet things to people
00:48:40 in the middle of the night.
00:48:41 So I lie there and I think like, these are really comfortable sheets and they stay cool,
00:48:45 which is another big thing.
00:48:47 I travel with the throw blanket.
00:48:48 I actually, yeah, I literally put it in the suitcase because the hotel sheets are just
00:48:52 not good.
00:48:52 So I literally put Bowling Branch product in my suitcase.
00:48:55 Is that Linus walking around with a blanket around who does it?
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00:49:30 Do you know what people are saying about this movie?
00:49:32 Have you been following it?
00:49:33 Are you on Twitter?
00:49:34 You have.
00:49:35 Do you know what Glenn Beck said?
00:49:36 Glenn Beck said, quote,
00:49:37 my good friend Ben Shapiro is shaking things up.
00:49:39 Seven Oscar nominations with this cast.
00:49:41 We are living in a different world.
00:49:43 Keep it up, Daily Wire.
00:49:44 Can't wait.
00:49:45 Our friend David Limbaugh said,
00:49:46 I watched Ben Shapiro's movie Confession today.
00:49:48 Oh my gosh, it is fabulous.
00:49:50 Can we see the angry ones?
00:49:51 These are boring. 0.99
00:49:52 Rod Schmidt said, damn, look at the actors in this. 0.99
00:49:56 Rod Dreher said, I just finished an advanced copy of Confession. 0.99
00:50:00 Out November 11th, Words Fail.
00:50:02 One of the most philosophically and theologically profound films I've ever seen.
00:50:06 And one of the most deeply Christian.
00:50:08 You know who wrote it.
00:50:10 A believing Orthodox Jew, Ben Shapiro.
00:50:12 Now I can't help but notice, we haven't seen the reviews yet from the Ben Shapiro fan club of Tucker.
00:50:18 I don't see any Tucker review yet
00:50:20 or a Candace review.
00:50:21 Have they said anything about the film?
00:50:22 Well, I mean, you know,
00:50:24 you mentioned Candace. 0.67
00:50:26 I mean, so Candace apparently 1.00
00:50:28 has like a reward out 1.00
00:50:29 for who can say
00:50:32 who I was dining with.
00:50:33 I was having like a brunch
00:50:34 when unfortunately
00:50:35 I front Charlie Kirkwood shot.
00:50:37 And so, you know,
00:50:37 now's as good a time as any.
00:50:38 I can say that the reason
00:50:40 I couldn't talk about it
00:50:41 is because the person
00:50:41 I was having brunch with
00:50:42 was Rob.
00:50:43 Rob and I were having brunch in LA
00:50:44 when all this was going on.
00:50:45 It was really,
00:50:46 it was quite a terrible layout.
00:50:46 What is the thing about the, 1.00
00:50:48 Oh, yeah, she's like a $10,000.
00:50:49 I don't follow this stuff all that closely.
00:50:52 She said that there was some weird conspiracy theory that she had that I and some Jew from Nebraska I'd never heard of were having breakfast and apparently—
00:51:00 Pause right there.
00:51:01 Do they have Jews in Nebraska? 0.99
00:51:02 I know.
00:51:03 I didn't know they had a whole story.
00:51:05 And then it was her usual shtick about everybody being in on Charlie's murder or something.
00:51:09 And then she offered, like, the broad world, the $10,000 reward.
00:51:12 So do we get to split this $10,000?
00:51:14 Well, I mean, I think that she owes it to me,
00:51:17 and I think that I will just give it to Erica's kid.
00:51:19 I think it would be the best way to actually handle it.
00:51:20 Hold on, so that, was this, so you've obviously,
00:51:24 when did she say this?
00:51:26 A couple months ago, maybe.
00:51:27 Okay, so you've known this,
00:51:29 and you knew that you were having lunch with Rob Lowe.
00:51:32 Yes.
00:51:32 And you waited until this moment to reveal that
00:51:35 so that you could get money to fund your next movie.
00:51:38 Yeah, exactly. 1.00
00:51:38 Especially two, Electric Boogaloo. 1.00
00:51:40 That's going to be the one.
00:51:41 That is very funny.
00:51:42 This whole, whatever this thing is,
00:51:44 You're having lunch with Rob Lowe.
00:51:46 Yes.
00:51:46 Yeah, it was.
00:51:48 And he's Mossad, right?
00:51:49 Yeah, exactly.
00:51:50 Secretly.
00:51:51 Very, very secretly.
00:51:52 Three layers deep Mossad, Rob.
00:51:54 Wow, that's very impressive.
00:51:55 Okay, so before we go, what is the pitch?
00:51:59 Who can I shake down for money?
00:52:00 You've put a good idea into my head.
00:52:02 I want to shake down somebody for $10,000.
00:52:05 Before we go, why do people need to subscribe to Daily Wire to watch this movie?
00:52:11 Oh, they should definitely see this film because they're not going to see it anywhere else.
00:52:14 That's the first thing.
00:52:15 They're not going to see it anywhere else.
00:52:16 It's relevant to the moment.
00:52:17 It's historically accurate.
00:52:18 It's moving.
00:52:19 Why would you not see it?
00:52:20 Where else are you going to go to get content like this?
00:52:23 Yeah.
00:52:24 And it's a good film.
00:52:25 So I think that's the first selling point.
00:52:27 It's actually a good film.
00:52:28 Go watch a good film.
00:52:29 And it has a great message, yes, but it's also, I would say this.
00:52:35 You mentioned the reaction and how angry people were.
00:52:38 It's a really interesting contrast because, you know, 1.00
00:52:41 Run, Hide, Fight, Infidels came out
00:52:44 and then this movie was announced shortly after.
00:52:47 Run, Hide, Fight, Infidels is not trying to be the same kind of movie,
00:52:50 but it is much more aggressive.
00:52:52 It's a much more aggressive movie in its messaging.
00:52:55 I would say, though, that from my vantage point,
00:52:59 the reaction to Confession, which is much more subtle
00:53:02 and much less intentionally provocative,
00:53:05 was a lot more, it was a much angrier reaction to confession.
00:53:11 And there's a reason for that.
00:53:12 I mean, I think this movie is disruptive
00:53:15 in a way that a kind of trolling movie can't be
00:53:19 because, you know, the left, you make a troll,
00:53:22 trolling movies are great,
00:53:23 but you make that kind of movie and the left kind of,
00:53:25 they have a, they know what to do with that.
00:53:28 They say, okay, sure, you know, they're being trolly, fine.
00:53:31 Once you start kind of playing in their sandbox
00:53:33 and once you do something that has artistic credibility,
00:53:37 that's the part that scares them.
00:53:40 And I think that's how you disrupt the culture in a way.
00:53:43 And so subscribe for that reason.
00:53:47 There's also, there is like an actual religious import to the movie,
00:53:51 which is you should see it.
00:53:53 One, you should see it so that we can keep the lights on
00:53:55 and keep doing the Michael Nol show.
00:53:56 And that's the main reason.
00:53:59 But a secondary reason for that is
00:54:00 it actually is a spiritually edifying movie
00:54:03 and you should recognize the stakes
00:54:05 of your spiritual life
00:54:06 and recognize what you are actually called to
00:54:09 when you profess faith in Christ
00:54:11 and that it's not just all acoustic guitars
00:54:14 and you know like happy clappy stuff
00:54:16 but it involves like actually
00:54:18 whoever will save his life will lose it
00:54:21 and whoever will lose his life for my sake will gain it
00:54:23 so you actually get that message
00:54:25 at the very end
00:54:26 from a guy in a yarmulke
00:54:28 who's secretly been going to some trad parish
00:54:30 in Florida without telling anyone.
00:54:32 I know, I think I say-
00:54:33 I'm working on my Latin.
00:54:33 Yeah, yeah.
00:54:34 I say we baptize him like here and now.
00:54:36 Yeah, that's great.
00:54:37 Enough is enough.
00:54:38 I did say that once.
00:54:39 We were on an airplane
00:54:40 and we were talking about like incarnational theology
00:54:43 and all this and Ben's like rolling his eyes
00:54:44 and I said, all right, all right,
00:54:45 I'll shut up about it.
00:54:46 But I had a cup of water.
00:54:47 I was like, but if it gets a little shaky.
00:54:50 Okay, all right.
00:54:51 That's it.
00:54:52 Go watch the movie.
00:54:52 If you haven't seen the movie yet,
00:54:53 dailywire.com slash subscribe.
00:54:56 Go see it right now
00:54:58 so that you can watch
00:55:00 the Michael Knowles show
00:55:01 afterward in the life span.
00:55:02 See you then.