The Michael Knowles Show - God Vs Hollywood： for KING & COUNTRY with Michael Knowles

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00:00:30.240 Are y'all from England?

00:00:31.520 Uh, Australia.

00:00:32.900 Australia.

00:00:33.860 It's a miracle.

00:00:35.120 She's a special one, son.

00:00:36.780 Your family, they're not in the way.

00:00:39.120 They are the way.

00:00:40.260 I want a record deal.

00:00:41.480 So do I.

00:00:42.860 Yeah, well, boys, get in line.

00:00:51.120 I want to make sure I get this right.

00:00:53.180 My guests, I want to get every number right here.

00:00:55.620 My guests have four Grammys, an American Music Award, a Billboard Music Award, 10 GMA Dove Awards, and 17 K-Love Fan Awards.

00:01:06.860 Their 13 number one songs have produced 2 billion career streams.

00:01:12.160 Now, I would like to point out, and I am not bragging, in 1995, I was awarded the most mature camper at the Bedford Hill Summer Camp.

00:01:18.700 So, look, I'm familiar with awards.

00:01:20.980 We all, you know, we all know about awards here.

00:01:23.240 My guests, Joel and Luke Smallbone.

00:01:27.100 Gentlemen, thank you for coming on the show.

00:01:28.940 That might be the most unforgettable intro that I've ever had.

00:01:32.300 The greatest.

00:01:33.340 Thank you.

00:01:33.660 The camper one was what got me.

00:01:36.120 It was a good turn.

00:01:37.280 It's a good turn.

00:01:37.860 It's a good turn.

00:01:38.340 1995.

00:01:39.360 What an era.

00:01:40.060 I don't want to brag.

00:01:41.720 I say it really in true humility.

00:01:44.240 By the way, I've left out a ton of your accomplishments, too.

00:01:47.160 Your story is completely wild.

00:01:50.400 And I was talking about all this music stuff, but actually, I've invited you on to talk about this movie.

00:01:55.780 You have a movie coming out April 26th.

00:01:58.380 It is Unsung Hero, and it's about you and your crazy story and your crazy family story.

00:02:06.140 So, tell everyone about it.

00:02:07.800 Well, it is a fascinating tale.

00:02:09.720 Luke and I were very young at the time, but our dad, speaking of music, was a concert promoter in Australia.

00:02:15.120 Lost what would be the equivalent of half a million dollars.

00:02:18.120 Lost the house, life savings, the car, everything.

00:02:20.580 Got offered a job in Nashville, and to sort of salvage a dream, went to mom and said, what if we, you know, took our six kids, 16 suitcases, mom was six months pregnant, and moved continents, and only to arrive and lose that job.

00:02:35.720 And so, with no way to get back to Australia, no car, no insurance, no way for our sister to be born in a hospital with a high-risk pregnancy, we found ourselves banding together, raking leaves, mowing lawns, breaking child labor laws, probably, and overcoming together.

00:02:54.140 And that's really where the story kind of picks up.

00:02:55.960 It kind of chronicles our parents and our sister, Rebecca St. James, as she steps into music.

00:03:02.080 But as you mentioned, 1995, this is even preceding that.

00:03:05.080 This is 1991.

00:03:06.200 It's a 90s film.

00:03:07.040 It's a film that celebrates moms and music and miracles and the local community coming together.

00:03:12.140 And Luke produced it.

00:03:13.480 I co-directed it.

00:03:14.920 And Mike, I play out dad in the film, which I've dubbed a very expensive therapy session.

00:03:21.680 That is, I'm glad you're getting a return on your investment there, at least psychologically.

00:03:26.440 That's got to be the hardest type of role to play.

00:03:30.820 It's difficult to play any role, convincingly.

00:03:33.380 But the layers of that, I can't even imagine.

00:03:36.360 Obviously, you guys have met all sorts of challenges in your career.

00:03:39.600 You mentioned seven kids.

00:03:41.080 So I have to ask, Catholic or Mormon?

00:03:44.320 There's a Catholic joke in there.

00:03:45.500 You know what's funny?

00:03:46.040 There's a joke in there where we come to the Border Patrol agent and Joel's playing my dad.

00:03:51.640 He says, hey, there's six kids.

00:03:54.040 And the Border Patrol guy goes, you're Catholic?

00:03:57.040 So you know what?

00:03:58.300 Just Christian, which is Catholic, right? 0.97

00:04:00.740 At the end of the day, it kind of goes round and round, right?

00:04:02.940 So yeah, you wouldn't believe it.

00:04:04.960 But one of the famous quotes that we're actually using in the film is a Catholic phrase from Mother

00:04:11.040 Teresa.

00:04:11.920 All right?

00:04:12.440 Because I think so many people are looking to change the world, right?

00:04:16.640 And they want to change the world.

00:04:18.080 They think that they have to have a microphone.

00:04:20.100 They think they have to be like you.

00:04:21.220 They think they have to have influence a stage.

00:04:23.640 But Mother Teresa says, if you want to change the world, go home and love your family.

00:04:28.940 And that's part of the reason why we made this movie, because we feel so strongly that

00:04:33.540 family is that powerful, is just that powerful.

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00:05:48.340 So not to spoil the movie, but, you know, that's pretty tricky circumstances to find oneself

00:05:54.400 in.

00:05:55.380 New immigrant in a country, no money, no job, ton of kids, one on the way, difficult pregnancy, 0.99

00:06:02.120 without spoiling anything.

00:06:03.700 How did your parents pull themselves out of that?

00:06:06.660 Well, maybe there'll be some spoilers in here, Mike.

00:06:09.120 But Lionsgate is putting this film on 2,800 screens across America, which is incredible.

00:06:16.040 But not only is it the release date of this film that celebrates their longevity of love,

00:06:19.980 but it's also their 49th wedding anniversary.

00:06:22.140 And we didn't plan that.

00:06:23.080 That was Adam Fogelson.

00:06:24.380 So, man, it's this.

00:06:26.340 Their story is a testament to mom had found her dream.

00:06:30.140 She always wanted to be a mom.

00:06:31.100 And so she was living out her dream, and she really lifted up dad and went literally and

00:06:36.240 figuratively to the ends of the earth for him in search of his dream, which was to find

00:06:42.780 himself in music, specifically Christian music.

00:06:46.880 And out of that, unexpectedly, there's another phrase in the film that says, your family is

00:06:51.740 not in the way, they are the way.

00:06:53.920 Out of that was born our sister Rebecca St. James and her musical career.

00:06:58.420 And then us with the King Country.

00:07:01.080 But I have to note that this is so much more than just our family.

00:07:04.200 I mean, we've always made a habit of telling stories and writing songs that were really

00:07:10.240 close to our hearts, because we've always felt like the closer you go to your own heart,

00:07:13.920 the further it reaches out into someone else's.

00:07:16.220 And that's our intent with this film.

00:07:17.980 The real unsung heroes of this film are moms. 1.00

00:07:20.420 The real unsung hero is family.

00:07:22.460 And we're just excited to make family and moms potentially the number one conversation in the

00:07:29.080 United States coming into this weekend in the theaters.

00:07:32.300 I love it because, first of all, the family is under attack in a way that it probably has

00:07:38.020 never been in all of history.

00:07:39.620 I say that without hyperbole.

00:07:41.440 And so I love a movie that isn't even polemical about the political issue of the family, but

00:07:47.460 just really celebrates family and the love between a husband and a wife, a love that

00:07:52.520 naturally, and with a little supernatural help if we think of it sacramentally, becomes

00:07:57.940 so real that it actually produces other people.

00:08:02.100 And this gets to something when I talk to my friends who are hesitant to have kids, slow 0.98

00:08:06.780 to get married, and then, you know, I don't want to have kids.

00:08:09.500 They live the dink lifestyle as long as they possibly can. 1.00

00:08:12.220 And they say, well, I don't know if we can afford it.

00:08:14.260 And I don't know if, you know, it doesn't totally work with my lifestyle of going to

00:08:18.860 brunch and, I don't know, traveling to Europe or something.

00:08:21.560 And I just don't, can we afford it?

00:08:23.140 And my friend, Andrew Klavan, gave me this advice when I was, well, I wasn't going to

00:08:27.760 have my first child.

00:08:28.560 My wife was.

00:08:29.240 I was somewhat involved in the process.

00:08:31.000 Yeah, you helped, right?

00:08:32.440 It was a good experience, right?

00:08:34.260 I had the most fun part in the whole process.

00:08:37.240 But Drew told me, when I was a little worried, I said, do I have enough money?

00:08:40.840 Do I have this, that?

00:08:41.760 He said, don't worry about it.

00:08:44.560 Kids are like little money bags.

00:08:46.660 You think that you're going to be impoverished.

00:08:49.140 You will not be impoverished by your kid.

00:08:51.100 You are, you are just, you're going to work more.

00:08:53.020 You're going to figure out a way.

00:08:54.620 It is, kids are going to add.

00:08:56.200 He said, life is going to go into 3D.

00:08:58.200 You are not going to lose anything that is not worth losing when you have a kid.

00:09:04.280 And it just seems, your family's story seems to speak to that in spades.

00:09:09.040 Man, I think this, you know, it's funny you say some of those things.

00:09:11.960 You know, in the Bible, when it talks about blessing, occasionally it talks about financial

00:09:15.820 blessing.

00:09:16.280 But you know what it talks about the most?

00:09:17.840 If you want to be a blessed person, it's actually through kids.

00:09:21.020 It's an arrow in your quiver, right?

00:09:22.840 And I think for, you know, mom, you know, for, for mom and dad and for us as a family,

00:09:27.380 we've gotten the gift of the, seeing the blessing of, you know, my brothers, man, there's seven

00:09:32.060 kids, obviously there's four, four, five boys.

00:09:34.520 I got four brothers and then two sisters.

00:09:36.460 I mean, they're all my best friends, you know?

00:09:38.720 And so to be able to have family and have a close knit family, we're a functionally dysfunctional

00:09:44.520 family, mind you, because I think all families are dysfunctional.

00:09:48.020 It's just whether or not you fight for the word functionally in front of the dysfunction.

00:09:51.860 That's, that's what health is because family is complicated, but family is worth fighting for.

00:09:55.740 Family is just that powerful.

00:09:57.580 You know, you look, you look at a lot of places and people put a lot of faith in governments,

00:10:01.620 but if, in my humble opinion, and if you put a lot of faith and effort into family,

00:10:06.760 if that was to become something that just took over nations, the government, it'll take care of

00:10:11.700 itself.

00:10:12.120 There won't be any problems.

00:10:13.020 Right, because when we talk about politics and government, I guess now we always reduce it

00:10:17.820 either down to the individual or we talk about the government, you know, just in Washington,

00:10:22.480 D.C.

00:10:23.260 But as far as I'm concerned, and as far as classical political philosophy is concerned,

00:10:28.100 the basic political unit is the family.

00:10:30.860 That's where politics starts.

00:10:32.460 That's how we all first learn to live together and figure out what we're really after in society.

00:10:39.160 Yeah, you're so right, Mike.

00:10:40.180 And that was, honestly, that's why we're so, we were very young when we moved.

00:10:43.740 But one thing we're so proud of to tell this story is that it's really those indelible years

00:10:49.980 as, you know, kids that were shy of 10 years old, where we learned to compromise, we learned

00:10:54.620 to collaborate.

00:10:55.920 Our sister went out on the road on tour, and we all piled into a 15-passenger van, broke

00:11:01.600 more child labor laws, and we became the road crew, you know, set up the stage and did the

00:11:07.280 background vocals, and that's, I believe that's why we're still in this as a family today.

00:11:12.340 It's not just Luke and me, it's a whole family affair.

00:11:15.280 So, man, we're hand in glove with you.

00:11:18.800 We're excited to put family on the silver screen.

00:11:21.200 And I just hope, our big hope and prayer this weekend is that this thing will rise.

00:11:26.900 We're in an interesting spot with, you know, this weekend in box office, where there's

00:11:34.200 a film, the challenger, if you will, to our film, there's a film called Challenges that

00:11:37.800 is a hard R and kind of, I don't know how you'd put it.

00:11:39.980 Maybe it's a little raunchy.

00:11:40.900 We'll put it that way.

00:11:41.560 It's raunchy.

00:11:42.260 And so you've got this balance of family being in a theater, and then you've got, you know,

00:11:47.340 these other ideals in the theater.

00:11:48.980 And so we hope that, so much so that we're calling tomorrow Family Day, we hope that

00:11:53.620 folks come out in droves and if they love their mom and if they love their family, that

00:11:58.140 they'll show up in the cinemas this weekend.

00:12:00.540 I think we have the trailer for the movie.

00:12:18.980 Okay, stay close.

00:12:21.700 Let's go.

00:12:26.880 How y'all doing?

00:12:28.260 Are y'all from England?

00:12:29.580 Uh, Australia.

00:12:31.060 Australia.

00:12:31.940 Wish I had an accent.

00:12:35.700 Dad, I wrote a song.

00:12:37.760 Thought maybe we could ask for an audition.

00:12:39.620 Oh, that's great, honey.

00:12:41.120 Let's take it one step at a time.

00:12:43.760 Kay tells me you're a promoter.

00:12:45.880 You know someone looking for a...

00:12:47.420 One may know somebody who should be.

00:12:51.560 She's been given a beautiful voice.

00:12:54.100 It's a miracle.

00:12:55.280 She's a special one, son.

00:12:56.940 Your family, they're not in the way.

00:12:59.420 They are the way.

00:13:03.140 There's no food.

00:13:04.760 We're almost out of money.

00:13:06.100 We need to make some changes.

00:13:07.500 Kids, we need your help.

00:13:09.900 This is everything we have.

00:13:11.760 And sometimes it's going to grow, and sometimes it will shrink.

00:13:15.200 But it cannot be allowed to disappear.

00:13:17.420 I wonder if he's right.

00:13:28.980 Maybe I'm not meant to sing.

00:13:30.720 Or maybe you're not meant to sing other people's songs.

00:13:33.640 It's going to be dangerous and scary.

00:13:38.980 And giving up, giving in, it's not an option.

00:13:44.100 Whatever your dream is, I know you can achieve it.

00:13:47.360 Please welcome my big sister.

00:13:51.480 My dream is to be like you.

00:13:54.180 It always has been.

00:13:55.180 I want a record deal.

00:14:02.240 So do I.

00:14:03.640 Yeah, well, boys, get in line.

00:14:05.180 It does start to make sense when I hear a little bit of your story that you guys do everything, you know, and you sing, and you've got all these kind of musical acts and won all these awards, and then you make movies, and you do this, and I guess you mow lawn, too.

00:14:23.380 One acquires a lot of skills when one is tested at a young age and really trying to scrape by.

00:14:31.040 How did you, you know, when you hear stories of young people getting involved in the music business or families getting involved in the music business, the image that comes to my mind is, you know, the Jackson 5 or something, and all these just horrifically abusive, dysfunctional kinds of stories.

00:14:46.540 Did any of those pitfalls ever present themselves to you?

00:14:50.060 How do you navigate those waters, especially as a family in the industry?

00:14:55.040 Yeah, I think that, man, there's a lot to what you just said, right?

00:14:59.180 We've heard a lot of difficult stories about families working together.

00:15:02.680 And look, that will always remain, right?

00:15:05.380 For every good family story about a son coming and taking over the business, you're going to hear another one where it goes, you know, sideways.

00:15:13.140 But I think that the thing that, as I, you know, my wife, according to me, we've got four kids ourselves.

00:15:17.520 We're not Catholic, but we could almost be, right?

00:15:19.760 You're on your way.

00:15:20.880 We, what we've talked about in our family is if you want your family to stay in some sort of harmony and unison, you have to learn how to do two things.

00:15:30.760 You have to learn how to resolve conflict, and then I think you have to practice forgiveness.

00:15:35.260 Because the truth is, even Joel and I, we're very, very close, but we are going to come on opposite sides of some sort of issue.

00:15:42.240 And if I hold to my guns and he holds to his guns, you're going to end up in something that's kind of nuclear.

00:15:48.280 And that's when you start to realize your family is always kind of on the precipice of, I don't want to say breaking up, because that's the, you know, there's, there's a, your family is hopefully a little stronger than that.

00:15:56.980 But you realize that family is that fragile at times.

00:16:00.420 And the other thing I've realized about family is someone's always got to go first.

00:16:03.180 So if there's a strainment between a father and a son, someone has to have the courage to say, hey, dad, can we go chat about something?

00:16:11.940 Or a dad saying, hey, son, can we go and chat about something?

00:16:15.780 You have to, you have to work at resolving conflict because struggle is inevitable.

00:16:20.200 It will find every single one of us.

00:16:21.900 But it's what you do to overcome disappointment, what you do to overcome struggle that, to use my dad's phrase, that separates the men from the boys.

00:16:29.660 It's a great bit of advice because sometimes you hear this very glib phrase, especially as it regards marriage.

00:16:36.820 You'll hear happy wife, happy life.

00:16:39.240 But that's kind of the cheap synthetic version of what you're talking about.

00:16:44.580 So basically, oh, if there's a conflict, just kind of ignore it, let it go, don't dig into it, it's fine.

00:16:50.000 But, you know, over time, that tends to build up resentment.

00:16:53.720 And then, you know, I don't know, someone eats the wrong bag of potato chips and it's a World War III.

00:16:58.600 It's a huge blow up because there's so much that's beneath it.

00:17:01.880 But I think you're so right in my own experience of marriage.

00:17:04.540 I haven't been married that long.

00:17:05.520 And end of family broadly, there has to be an agreed-to process for resolving conflict where you're all on board.

00:17:14.160 And then that point of forgiveness and charity and just always, you know, willing the good of the other and trying to be as gracious as one can be, even when conflict arises.

00:17:25.500 Those two ingredients, absolutely indispensable.

00:17:28.620 And you look at how broken the family is in America today.

00:17:31.740 Hey, this is not just, you know, mamby-pamby sort of, you know, nice saccharine advice.

00:17:37.900 This is urgent advice to resolve a major social problem.

00:17:41.740 Well said, Mike.

00:17:42.500 I feel like the, you know, I love that you're, I'm 10 years into marriage.

00:17:46.980 How long have you been married for?

00:17:49.140 About, I should have been quicker on the answer now.

00:17:51.700 I hope my wife isn't watching this right now. 1.00

00:17:53.260 I guess coming up on six years.

00:17:55.400 Okay, there you go.

00:17:56.200 Hey, you recovered.

00:17:56.740 So, you know, marriage is the great equalizer and the great sanctifier, right?

00:18:02.340 And you asked about our parents and how they made it through and how we made it through.

00:18:07.040 Honestly, one of the key components to their marriage is that they did actually, they were fortified as a couple.

00:18:15.400 Now, I've seen a lot of marriages sort of pin kids against each other or pin other family members against each other. 0.97

00:18:22.160 But my, our parents to this day, they will fight for each other beyond anyone or anything else.

00:18:31.020 And I think there was such great, one, two of seven kids, man.

00:18:34.300 Like there was, we were, we were economically unsafe.

00:18:38.340 We were financially unsafe.

00:18:39.880 We were literally physically unsafe at points, but we felt safe emotionally, spiritually, relationally inside their love.

00:18:46.100 And it's because they were safe with each other.

00:18:49.260 And I think that's, that's another sort of trickle down of the issue here is, no, you're probably right.

00:18:56.400 Happy wife, happy life is not the truest sentiment of the statement.

00:19:01.440 But I do think, you know, a happy, beautiful marriage where you're best friends and you're in this thing together and you understand that this is the one institution that God passed down to humanity.

00:19:13.720 Everything can sort of follow out from there, all your relationships, including the relationships with your kids.

00:19:19.720 And we're, man, we're just, we live it in different ways, Luke and me and the rest of the kids.

00:19:23.660 But we're really proud of the fact that, again, tomorrow being 49 years for our parents, they have modeled that idea of just tenacious longevity and consistent choosing one another against all odds.

00:19:39.900 I love, when I, when I think about this with my grandparents' marriage, they were married 69 years before my grandpa died.

00:19:44.940 Six kids, you know, the whole shebang.

00:19:47.380 And I say they, they had a kind of tyrannical normality to them.

00:19:51.840 They were absolutely determined to the point of death to have a good family and a good marriage and to do the right thing and to, you know, love, love one another.

00:20:01.000 And it, it really pays off.

00:20:02.780 A great way to, you know, commemorate this providential release date that coincides with the anniversary is for everyone out there to go and see the movie Unsung Hero.

00:20:14.380 It's got a rather wide release.

00:20:16.400 2,800 theaters is terrific.

00:20:18.140 So make sure, look it up, go out there and find it.

00:20:20.880 And gentlemen, thank you both for coming on.

00:20:23.500 And I have no doubt that you'll win many more awards for this and all of your endeavors into the future.

00:20:28.880 Hey man, if I get a camping award for taking my son and he like survives the night, that'll be my greatest achievement.

00:20:35.480 Hey, thank you, Mike, for having us.

00:20:37.340 And so the marketing people don't kill me.

00:20:39.420 If you love the 90s, if you love your mom, if you love movies and you love miracles,

00:20:44.680 go to unsunghero.movie is where I'm told all the information is for Showtimes and all of that.

00:20:51.480 We'll see you.

00:20:52.060 We'll see you in the cinemas.

00:20:54.080 Unsunghero.movie.

00:20:55.820 Go get your tickets.

00:20:57.420 And in the meantime, I will see you all later.

00:20:59.780 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:21:00.780 This is The Michael Knowles Show.

The Michael Knowles Show - April 26, 2024

God Vs Hollywood： for KING & COUNTRY with Michael Knowles

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