Islam Is Superior & Supernatural Is Fake？ Catholic & Protestant Debunk ｜ Michael Knowles ft. Billy Hallowell
Episode Stats
Harmful content
Misogyny
6
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Toxicity
18
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Hate speech
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Summary
Billy Hallowell is a filmmaker who investigates the paranormal and demonic possession. In this episode, we talk to Billy about his new film, "Demonic Foes," and how he s debunking the idea that demons and angels are real.
Transcript
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Get 20% off almost all regular priced merchandise.
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She describes the priest walking near the river.
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She's saying all these things, very specific details.
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He says to the priest, what are you doing right now?
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He then proceeds to tell him, I'm walking near the river.
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You know, my position on, you know, are Muslims and Christians worshiping the same God?
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But then you'd say the Jews don't worship the same God.
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Well, I think this is an interesting argument.
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You're saying the biggest challenge to atheism is the nation state of Israel?
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Now that we've juiced the algorithm with talk about the state of Israel.
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That's much better, because now we got all the views up
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That's my view, which is why I think it's so important
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Well, I'm very pleased to be here with the filmmaker
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of investigating the supernatural angels and demons.
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I think there is more interest now in the supernatural
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than there has been basically at any other point in my life.
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And I think even before this whole disclosure thing, right,
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But really, the last 10 years, we've seen a big uptick in this.
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I think the reason is because people have a common experience, right?
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and I don't really believe in ghosts personally.
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I think you're dealing with angels and demons always.
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But all of those subjects have really bubbled up
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Now you have aliens, you have UFOs, disclosures,
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is because people were trapped in this materialist idea
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Even the notion that there is more of a spiritual reality to them,
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we have the producers compiling the very finest collection
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There are medically documented cases of people with demonic possession
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speaking in languages they don't know, for example.
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Okay, medically documented cases of people with demonic possession
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I would love to take a look at that, you know, medical documentation.
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I get the feeling you're not going to provide any, are you?
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We do have one source that was flashed on screen,
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a book by Richard Gallagher called Demonic Foes.
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I only skimmed through a couple of chapters, but I did also watch a few of Dr. Gallagher's interviews.
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In the book, he talks about some of his experiences with people he believes were demonically possessed,
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Evidence for demonic possession consists principally in people like Julia having special powers.
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But we don't have to take Dr. Gallagher's word for this.
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Oh no, actually we can't, because he didn't see this himself.
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That's not to say that I can prove she wasn't possessed, or that Dr. Gallagher's priests were mistaken or lying,
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but this book, which is the only citation Redeemed Zuma provided, hardly fulfills my evidential
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expectations. First of all, he's mistaken because Dr. Gallagher's in our film, first of all. So
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Dr. Gallagher did see these things directly, did interact with Julia directly, and I'll tell you
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one of the things he did see, okay? So I would love for them to be able to explain this. Julia
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could astral project. Now, astral projection sounds ridiculous, it sounds sci-fi, but the ability to
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see what is happening 50 miles away, 100 miles away when you're not physically there.
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Now, Dr. Gallagher was a skeptic, and that's an important part that's obviously left out of this
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when he came into this. Catholic Church came to him and said, look, you're a psychiatrist.
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You're, you know, Ivy League educated. You teach at Columbia University. We want you to come in
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and tell us whether this person is crazy or possessed. So he says, okay, I don't want to do
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that because I'm a skeptic. They say you're the perfect person to do it. So he gets into it. He
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meets Julia. Astral projection. She's in his office. She tells him, I know where the priest is.
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I know what he's doing right now. She describes the priest walking near the river. He's wearing
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a blue jacket. She's saying all these things, very specific details. Gallagher thinks it's
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ridiculous. He calls the priest. He says to the priest, what are you doing right now? Where are
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you? The priest says, you're with Julia, aren't you? He already knows the priest what's going on.
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He then proceeds to tell him, I'm walking near the river. I'm wearing a blue jacket. All the
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details, she was able to tell him. Now, she had no way to know that. She was sitting in his office,
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so he specifically and directly heard this. That's just one of the examples. Another one,
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and this one's kind of funny, the night before he met Julia, the priest brings Julia to his house.
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The night before that, he wakes up Dr. Gallagher, and his cats are losing their minds, okay? He has
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these two cats. They're fighting him and his wife. They get up. They separate the cats out, and they're
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like, what in the world is going on? The next morning, Julia's at his door with the priest. One
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of the first things she says to him. They've never met. She knows nothing about him. How did you like
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what happened with your cats last night? So that's his first interaction with this woman. Now, there
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are plenty of other details that are more convincing than that, but the fact he didn't know and didn't
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interact is not accurate. Yeah. What is astral projection in your mind? Because I've heard about
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this. It's like a new agey thing, but you see claims of it that go much further back. How does
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it work? Because I think I have a theory. Here's my theory. I mean, how it works is essentially
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demons, which will transmit information to you, just like automatic writing. They're basically
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telling you, here's what's going on. The priest is walking near the river. Here's what he's doing.
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You believe you're able to have this special ability because you're so special. You're so
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awesome. You can see it's not you. It's the demons delivering that information to you.
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Yeah, because there's a parallel within the Christian life with the claims of mystics
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throughout the centuries to be able to bilocate.
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be in two places at the same time in different respects.
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which which superficially seems similar to astral projection but the difference
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of course would be one is you have a sort of special grace or power thanks to
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God and the other is that you're dealing with the occult and demons are telling
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you see they're giving you the information yes you just you hit on
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something that I've discovered you know I wrote a book in 2020 called playing
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with fire I looked at this from a journalist perspective what do what do
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Christians believe about evil and I started encountering this pattern all
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the things that God does you know prophecy right let's talk about prophecy
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The ability, God is giving a message to people.
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It's coming from God and they're giving us prophecy.
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I think Israel and, you know, not to bring up a debated topic,
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a lot of people believe the book of Ezekiel and other Old Testament books
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are prophesying things that even haven't happened yet,
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but 1948 would be one big thing that has happened.
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I don't think it is, but apparently there are some podcasters and hosts that think it is.
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So Satan perverts every single thing God does with a counterfeit of it.
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So psychics are saying, well, we can predict the future, too.
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But they're not getting those messages from God.
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In fact, some of them you've had on your show, Jen Nees, it would be one of them.
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Yeah, who would tell you what that was like, what that experience was like.
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And they thought they were interacting with these spirit guides that were actually demons.
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And even in possession cases, people will say there's oil dripping down the wall sometimes, right?
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And I think astral projection and what you were just, the bilocating, that's sort of another example of that.
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You know, the thing is, though, the audience right now didn't hear a single thing
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because now they're all fighting in the comments over whether or not the nation state of Israel is prophetic.
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Because we could do like two hours on this.
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No, we won't get sidetracked by the nation state of Israel.
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Well, before Armageddon strikes, what's the next one?
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There is no such thing as demon, witches, juju, ghosts, or spirits.
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If something can be observed, measured, or tested, how can it interact with atoms?
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For thousands of years, every single claim of magic or spirit collapsed the moment real evidence was demanded.
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Because you can't move an object without a force.
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Nothing can affect reality without physical laws.
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And if you claim otherwise, provide your evidence for one.
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what did he say it was a lot of yelling and kind of english okay did you get anything out of that
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i think what he's saying is there's no proof whatsoever of of witchcraft or demons or or any
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sort of non-physical force impacting anything physically which i don't know how much proof
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people need i will tell you this i'm actually skeptical like naturally skeptical so when i got
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sent out to do all these investigations and look at these stories i'm like okay you say you were
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impacted by a demon you say you interacted with an angel prove it to me and i have a high bar for
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what I want to be proven to me. But when you interact with people and they provide details
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that can no other way could they be possible, you have to start to say to yourself, well,
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what's going on here? Like for instance, a miracle, can you prove a miracle? Well, not a hundred
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percent, but I think you can get 99% of the way there where I could say, well, I have no other
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explanation for how that brain tumor disappeared. I have no other explanation for how this person
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was healed of paralysis, right? The same goes for the demonic realm. And I would also pose this
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question it's interesting to me we're sitting here having this conversation it's 2026 people
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have been having this conversation since the beginning of humanity why why do people continue
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to have this conversation because there's a common experience and we see this in anthropology we see
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it in sociology that people are experiencing things they can't explain they'll attribute it
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to ghosts they'll attribute it to all sorts of things right they may not have a good theological
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framework but it's happening and if you ask americans at a high rate they will say i either
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have experienced this or i've seen somebody else who has yeah yeah so again are all these people
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lying is everybody lying or is something going on my friend drew clavin makes this point he says
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you walk into a party you ask people have you ever seen a ghost he said just about everybody in the
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party is going to tell you they have maybe not literally everyone but you at the very least you
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walk into a room of 10 people guaranteed at least one of them probably many more are going to tell
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you, they've seen a ghost. And yet, in our modern life, we say that's totally crazy.
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Virtually everyone everywhere for all of history has said that something has happened.
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Yes. And even beyond that, we're talking about the supernatural here versus the merely natural.
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It seems to me that we can deduce, infer the existence of the supernatural from the mere
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fact that the natural world is contingent, caused, subject to change, temporal. So if
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there is if there is this thing called the natural which you know is contingent and caused and all
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the rest mustn't there be a supernatural on which it rests I mean I would even argue and obviously
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this isn't proof but it's interesting we're sitting here we're cognizant we're having a
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conversation where did we come from how did we get here how is this even happening why are our
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words intelligible there you go well but his were not intelligent they were but ours are they were
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not there was a lot of I heard yelling and anger over witchcraft that's all I heard but I do think
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it is, it is interesting because, you know, all of this is miraculous and yet we've become so
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material that we walk outside, we see flowers growing, these amazing things that God created
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and we assume, Oh, Oh, like whatever, no big deal. It's all miraculous. Our earth would either
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freeze or burn if we were off our axis at all. I mean, all of these things scientifically do not
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make sense. And yet here we are. And so the idea that we have a creator, all of that, but I think
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specifically on these issues, when you start to get into the cases, which is what we did in the
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film, you know, and you start to look at them. I mean, Richard Gallagher, he had many other
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cases that were incredibly compelling. And these are cases that have been verified, yes,
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scientifically, yes, medically, and he's not alone. What is, what is tough about this is a lot of
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people, they have these experiences, a lot of doctors, right? They see miracles, they see
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healing, healings. They can't talk about it. They're afraid to talk about it because of that
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reaction. And yet we're pretending this isn't mainstream when most Americans actually have
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experienced it and agree with it, which I think is super interesting. All right, next one.
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The chance of you being you, existing now, the chance of that sperm hitting that egg, is 400 trillion to one.
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And I think life is like a holiday. We don't exist for 13 and a half billion years.
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Then we have these 80, 90 years if we're lucky. Then we die, never to exist again.
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And some people are even offended by that. They go, you can't say that.
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It can't be chance. It's too good. Someone must have made it all.
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And I'm too special. I can't just not exist. I'll live again. I'll go to heaven.
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i'll be with my friends and family or i'll come back as a spirit and i'll walk amongst you
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or i'll be reincarnated i'll come back as someone else that would just be someone else
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that's all that's happened you're not involved that is just that's actually a good point someone
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else right many people believe in reincarnation of course some people even claim they remember
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who they were in a previous life um there's a society in america of course um in california
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And they remember who they were in a previous life.
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and every year they have a come-as-you-were party
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where they go dressed as the person they were in history.
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I mean, the first part where he's mocking people
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for recognizing that there's a spiritual aspect
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That part's kind of silly, read it to your atheism.
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I start to look at what does the archeology say, right?
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is the biggest challenge to atheism that exists in the Bible.
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So hold on, you're saying the biggest challenge to atheism
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What would you say, though, to the vast majority of Christians on earth
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I would say that it's more complicated than both sides probably want to admit.
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I think you have a situation, like let's talk about the odds.
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What are the odds that a nation, no other nation in the history of the world, has been absent from a map for 1,900 years, let's say, 2,400 years, reemerges on the map, and people are going to say, okay, well, human beings made that happen.
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Human beings, and God works through human beings, so we see that in Scripture, so there's no conflict there.
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But the reality is looking at the details of what preceded that.
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You have these horrific events, and you have a pattern throughout history, and we can't do this justice in the amount of time we have.
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But we have a pattern throughout history of the Jewish people being targeted and attempted to
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wipe them out. You go back to Queen Esther, you go back to what happened with Haman there.
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I mean, from the beginning of time, you go back to 400 years in slavery again and again and again.
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And I think you see the same demonic spirit appearing on October 7th, right? You see this
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same quest, this irrational quest to wipe the Jewish people out. So the idea that you would
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have a portion of scripture, even let's say that, okay, let's say Israel was forced back onto the
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Now, I'm not, and I'm not disagreeing that there were, you know, human factions that
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did usher this in, but the conditions around it, if you were to put, you know, like, what
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are the odds that it was the Holocaust that really sparked that, the quest that really
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If you're saying that the people have tried to kill the Jews for all of history, which
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is true, then you say, all right, and then the latest sort of most ghastly modern industrial
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attempt was the Holocaust. And that after the Holocaust, people, especially being that the
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good guys won, people would have sympathy for the stateless. I mean, there are plenty of stateless
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peoples, right? The Tibetans, the Uyghurs, the Gypsies, the Kurds. But this one stateless group
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was targeted and nearly exterminated. And there had coincidentally been a nationalist movement
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that rose up in the middle of the 19th century, really more toward the end of the 19th century.
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And they said, hey, we want this land that we've been longing for for 2,000 years.
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And, hey, global superpower, can we please have it?
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To me that, as someone who is not like a Christian Zionist or a Christian nationalist for that matter,
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though I like nationalism and Christianity, but as someone who doesn't take that,
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like I kind of justify the state of Israel on international law.
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But I could see, I can give a lot of natural explanations for how the state of Israel comes
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about, especially because what it really gets down to and what everyone's fighting about in
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the comments right now is the church for all of history, just about, has understood herself to
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be the new Israel, the spiritual Israel, a view that is in some quarters in recent decades really
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opposed. But I guess my view on it is, if the vast majority of Christians for all of history
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have believed this thing, and you believe this other thing, how would that be your greatest
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evidence against atheism? So I think one of the reasons why people believed that thing for so
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long was because nobody could imagine a world in which Israel could ever be back on the map again
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after 80, 70, right? Like, I think there was this real struggle that people had to imagine,
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well, how would that even be possible? And so a lot of people gave up on the idea of a physical
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Israel, and it became sort of this ingrained thing. Well, God must have meant something
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different there, or maybe it was talking about the Assyrian or the Babylonian captivity.
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The church was trying to claim the state of the Holy Land for itself.
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That was the Crusades. Again, that self-understanding of Israel. So it wasn't
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like the Christians were saying, if only we could get the Jews back to Tel Aviv, we'd be so happy.
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They didn't even care about it. Right. And my point is, what we
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see now, though, is exactly what you see in Ezekiel 36-37, which is a country comprised of
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Jewish people, okay? And people will argue they're not really the Jewish people. Well, they are. Most
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of them are. I think they're the Jews. Well, they're the Jews, right? I met the black Hebrew
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Israelites one time, and they told me they were the Jews, but I'm more convinced by... You weren't
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convinced they were not, but... Yeah, I think... But it's the conditions in 36-37 that I think are
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really interesting. The conditions that the country would be more prosperous than it would ever be,
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that you would have them come from every nation, right?
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I mean, those are things that are very specific.
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And I think when you start to pull it all together,
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huh, we've never seen that happen before anywhere.
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but I also think Christians have to be careful.
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I know this is not what we were even here to talk,
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Like Jewish people are not Christian people, right?
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all the first Christians were Jews, plenty of Jewish converts throughout history, many of Jewish
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converts today. Yes, a hundred percent. I mean, I'm referring to currently practicing Jewish people
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or, and look, it's a secular state, essentially, you know, Israel. So, you know, so there's some
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other factors there, but I think sometimes people treat it as though it has been merged,
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like Christians are merged together with them theologically. We're obviously not. There's a
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separation and you've got to be careful with that. And I think you can believe, and I'll just say
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this and then we can put it throughout. You can believe that there is a prophetic significance to
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Israel while, and also believe that the church is the fulfillment of that promise. You can believe
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those two things together. Yeah, you know, that's getting closer to my view, which is the church is
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the new Israel, the spiritual Israel. I think that the prophecies that pertain to Israel as such
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really are figures of the church and all of that. I have hold very traditional views on that.
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However, I do kind of wonder if the nation state of 1948 is not a little bit of a wink of providence.
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Is there not at least like a little bit of significance to it?
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I don't, again, like they're certainly not synonymous in any way.
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I don't really, certainly wouldn't justify the state on exegetical grounds.
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But, you know, the thing is, if you believe in providence, everything has some significance.
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you do wonder, when there are major global events,
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like, that's a pretty significant event, you know?
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and it doesn't necessarily have to be prophesied in Scripture.
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But that is my kind of like one, it's my dipping my toe
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into that specifically sort of Protestant thing.
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I think when you read Revelation, and I know another powder keg.
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He said, Michael, anyone who tells you he understands the book of Revelation is a madman.
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I've read it a million times, and every time I read it, I'm like,
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But it does feel like Israel's a physical location again in Revelation.
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And I believe a good chunk of Revelation is unfulfilled.
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And again, it brings me back to what is going on prophetically.
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So I think you can believe both of those things.
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I think we've chosen that you have to be one or the other.
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It's like, well, no, I think there's significance prophetically to Israel still.
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And I do believe that there is a promise to Israel that does not just end at the church.
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now now that they'll convert at the end well some may i mean that's that that is one idea of what
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could be going on in revelation the 144 000 there's lots of different theories about that you
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know so um i think it'll be interesting to see what happens i don't know but what i do know is
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i i do believe there's a prophetic significance and i do think that ezekiel 36 to 37 is a challenge
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to atheism is a is a one of the bible's premier challenges to atheism but it's not more than like
00:23:34.120
the resurrection well no the resurrection is the best let me rephrase the the old testament in the
00:23:39.020
old testament i think it is the biggest yes yeah that's and that's pretty interesting the other
00:23:42.960
crucial part here speak pun intended now that we've juiced the algorithm with talk about the
00:23:49.000
state of israel i've ruined your shows no no no that's much better because now we got all the
00:23:52.940
views up so we can talk about angels and demons keep going hey people a supernatural explanation
00:23:58.640
should only be accepted when the supernatural has been proven to exist. Theists claim the
00:24:04.360
supernatural as an explanation for things, yet to date have not proven the supernatural to exist.
00:24:09.920
So, until they can, any explanation that invokes the supernatural should be dismissed.
00:24:16.220
Now the rebuttals. What is supernatural? The supernatural is anything that is not natural
00:24:21.860
nor bound to natural laws such as physics. An example of this would be ghosts, specters, demons,
00:24:34.100
If people claim to speak to the dead or an all-knowing deity, that can be empirically investigated and verified.
00:24:41.500
An example are the self-proclaimed prophets that said God told them personally that Trump would have won the last U.S. elections, which was false.
00:24:53.260
As if the supernatural can interact with the physical world, it can be detected.
00:24:56.940
An example are psychics who claim they can move objects with their minds or people who channel slash control spirits.
00:25:09.080
And not only I really don't care about it, it's totally irrelevant and useless to prove anything if not accompanied by an empirical evidence.
00:25:26.920
It always makes me laugh because these people decide, like, oh, no, we've decided what is natural and what is not, right?
00:25:31.640
Because all the things we talked about before, yeah, it's natural, it's material, I get it.
00:25:35.080
But I actually think it's all supernatural still, like the flowers growing outside, the trees, you and I being able to talk.
00:25:39.760
So they've made a decision on what they believe is natural.
00:25:43.640
What these people do, I mean, look, I have sat, and I'm not proud of this, before I really understood the danger of this,
00:25:49.360
where I listened to a psychic talk to somebody in my family.
00:26:02.360
details that this person could have never known
00:26:16.180
She could name him, talk about what he looked like.
00:26:18.080
she knew everything by touching these glasses. How else do you explain that? So people have
00:26:22.160
plenty of examples that would defy everything he just cared about, that would very much prove.
00:26:28.660
So individual experiences do matter because in the collective, again, they point to evidence.
00:26:33.900
He also, he says you can't prove anything without hard, tangible, empirical evidence.
00:26:39.160
But he doesn't really believe that because I can know something about justice. Justice is giving
00:26:44.560
to each what he deserves. I can know that definitively. And I have to know that. We
00:26:49.600
have to make conclusions about that. That's the only way we can have a society. I can't touch
00:26:54.120
justice. Or freedom or liberty. Or freedom or liberty or grace or virtue or anything. So we all
00:27:00.720
do that. In fact, we can come to conclusions about mathematics without empirical evidence. I guess
00:27:05.360
one plus one equals two. I guess we have empirical evidence for that. But there's a lot of
00:27:10.500
mathematics that we don't have empirical evidence for. So even that, that very reductive empiricist
00:27:15.880
view is kind of silly by any standard, a standard by which we all live our lives.
00:27:20.660
No, absolutely. I mean, you create a standard, again, what is natural? You create the standard
00:27:24.240
that's ridiculous to begin with, and then you have a measurement that everything else that does have
00:27:27.980
evidence, you're just dismissing it all when these people, I mean, look, I've spent now years looking
00:27:32.920
at this stuff, and I want it to not be true half the time because I want to poke the hole in it.
00:27:39.780
Too often, I'm in a position where I'm finding myself saying these details.
00:27:46.440
Okay, so in our most recent film, there's a man who, Bruce Venata, who died, crushed
00:27:53.740
He's under the semi-truck doing work on it, falls off the jack.
00:27:56.740
Semi-truck lands on him, crushes his torso, his abdomen rather, dies under this truck.
00:28:09.380
He's looking at these two angels, putting their hands on his abdomen.
00:28:12.820
And he also has a miracle, which we could talk about after.
00:28:15.660
He's talking about all these things that happened.
00:28:17.260
Now, this man, they could not do any CPR on him because of the injuries.
00:28:20.500
He comes to on his own in the middle of he's severed five arteries, which nobody's ever survived severing five arteries.
00:28:29.400
But this man was able to describe the EMTs who came through the back door of that building, what they were wearing, what they looked like.
00:28:36.060
He could pick them out of a lineup six weeks later.
00:29:04.820
work, family schedules, finances, headlines, obligations. It can feel like your attention
00:29:09.020
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even more commitments stacked onto an already busy life. A lot of people are carrying stress
00:29:21.760
they barely even notice anymore because they've gotten so used to operating at that level
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constantly. That is one reason prayer really matters. Studies have shown that prayer can
00:29:30.380
help reduce stress, improve mental health, and lower cortisol levels. Beyond the science of it,
00:29:34.280
prayer creates space to step outside the noise for a moment and remember that not everything
00:29:38.220
depends entirely on you that is the idea behind hallow's new detachment challenge detachment
00:29:43.980
doesn't mean indifference or withdrawing from your responsibilities it means loosening your
00:29:47.480
grip on things that ultimately you cannot control placing them in god's hands instead right now go
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to hallow.com slash knolls download the hallow app get three months for free hallow.com h-a-l-l-o-w
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dot com slash knolls canada v-l-e-s for three months free well and just even at a really basic
00:30:03.460
level. Because I don't know, I'm not a philosopher. I'm not a theologian. I'm certainly not a
00:30:07.520
biologist. And so I just try to get basic about it. I know that part of me is intellect and will.
00:30:16.860
Maybe not the most abundant intellect, but enough that I can speak. You're pretty smart. Thank you.
00:30:20.680
I appreciate it. It's intellect and will. I desire things. I pursue those desires. And I
00:30:26.500
think about things universally in a different way than lower animals have, which is instinct and
00:30:32.340
appetite, so much so that my intellect sometimes can override my appetites, hopefully, and
00:30:37.720
through the force of my higher will. And then I would say to the doctor, the biologist,
00:30:42.040
I'd say, hey, cut me open, find the intellect. In that case, they would say the brain. But
00:30:46.640
the brain is not synonymous with the intellect. I know this because the brain, like all physical
00:30:51.840
organs, can receive physical things, electrical impulses. My eyes can receive color. My hands
00:30:58.420
can receive texture, but my intellect deals in universals, things that can't be touched.
00:31:04.480
And so a merely physical object could not receive immaterial forms. Therefore, it doesn't
00:31:10.660
take Plato or Aristotle for me to come to the conclusion that part of me is immaterial.
00:31:16.640
My will, what is my will? Why is it that when I want to eat the cookie, my disciplined will
00:31:21.820
will say, no, I want to be healthy, I want to be thin and sexy more than I want to eat
00:31:26.620
the cookie. Where's that part of me? Find that. You can't actually identify it. And so isn't the
00:31:34.460
simpler explanation that we are what we have always thought ourselves to be, which is in part
00:31:40.540
physical, but in part spiritual? Absolutely. I mean, I think one of the most dangerous things
00:31:44.640
that's happened, particularly on the secular side and the left, is this idea that we're almost
00:31:49.360
animals. I mean, it's like the way that they treat human beings is, you know, we just, we have all
00:31:53.800
these base instincts that we have to satisfy and that's where we are and that's all that matters
00:31:58.120
and whatever feels good whatever you think is good this crazy relativism that doesn't work which is
00:32:02.760
one reason why so many young people are coming to faith because guess what they're realizing this is
00:32:06.700
all a lie and it's all hitting them they're the first generation gen z the first generation to
00:32:11.260
grow up on smartphones and tablets and all this chaos really i mean i'm an elderly millennial i'm
00:32:15.840
42 so like we kind of had it but they really have it and they've hit this wall and they're like wow
00:32:20.500
none of this was true. None of this works. And we need a real answer. Now, the danger is that
00:32:25.300
they're looking for all different answers. So you see the rise of the occult among young women in
0.95
00:32:28.520
particular, but you see the rise of Christianity in particular among young men. And so the goal
0.69
00:32:33.600
is get the truth out to as many people as you can, because these young people, they're hungry
00:32:39.180
for it. But I think in some ways, what the left has done and what the secular side has done
00:32:43.940
has actually led to that. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bodies laying out there and a lot of
00:32:48.760
tragedy that's happened on the gender front and all these other issues because of that but it is
00:32:52.520
interesting to watch the realization of what you just said come to fruition in these young people
00:32:56.740
yeah no i because people recognize that the materialist explanation is just insufficient
00:33:02.120
and that there are phenomena that they experience and desires that they deeply feel
00:33:06.820
that that are not satisfied by it and then the problem to your point especially the young women
00:33:11.840
is they say and that's why i'm gonna put crystals in my front yard it's like well hold on it's like
00:33:18.280
okay i'm gonna sage my house and put yeah i'm like in a way the crystals are kind of an improvement
0.99
00:33:25.540
over atheist materialism but you know what's even cooler than sage around your stupid like
0.99
00:33:31.860
whitewashed millennial living room or crystals in your yard you know it's more even more um how
1.00
00:33:36.380
about a beautiful altar of sacrifice uh in the christian faith which is predicated on the fact
00:33:42.780
that a man died and rose from the dead yeah like that's more interesting to me than sage well
00:33:47.640
because it all goes back to where do you see the power do you see the power in yourself because
00:33:51.820
that's what the left has sold the left has sold this idea that we have the power in ourselves
00:33:55.980
that we can make all the best decisions it's all about us that does not work that has let us down
00:34:01.220
complete chaos and a lot of us for a long time we were just willing to let it happen like oh yeah
0.99
00:34:05.320
don't worry about those kids over there that they're transing it's like what in the world
0.99
00:34:08.740
is going on and i think we've had a little bit of a semblance of a wake up now where everyone's like
0.67
00:34:13.820
oh, no, we can actually talk about the truth right now.
00:34:16.040
And so we're in this unique window where I actually think
00:34:18.720
this supernatural conversation is especially important
00:34:21.140
because I actually believe that the supernatural,
00:34:23.960
and this is kind of wild because all these people are wrong.
00:34:31.940
if you can prove that angels and demons are real,
00:34:33.920
that there's a spiritual realm and that these stories are happening,
00:34:36.800
a lot of young people are going to find that to be the one key
00:34:39.940
that actually puts them over the edge into faith.
00:34:42.440
And that's something that if you had asked me that two years ago, I probably would have said no.
00:34:46.740
I think I had a greater appreciation of that long before I had any clearer view of religion
00:34:54.040
or a return to clear view of religion in that if you can convince someone that sin exists,
00:35:01.760
And if you convince them that evil exists, you can convince them that it has a personality,
00:35:08.060
And if you can convince them that evil has a personality,
00:35:12.560
But what's crazy to come all the way back is if the devil exists, certainly God exists.
00:35:21.640
I just, I guess I just sinned myself out of atheist materialism, which is not the right
00:35:28.380
C'è una luna, mezzo mare, mamma mia, me mare dare, figlia mia chiuda dare, mamma mia,
00:36:19.520
I think she's basically pulling out all these different things that, you know,
00:36:23.080
looked like it was her communion, and then it was the evil eye, which, I mean,
00:36:26.460
the evil eye is more of an occultic thing than anything else.
00:36:45.840
But, you know, the hijab, the evil eye, the communion photo, you know, all of that stuff.
0.99
00:36:50.900
Again, I would challenge people, and people will laugh at this oftentimes, where's the evidence?
0.98
00:36:58.060
If you go on ChatGPT and you start playing around, you start asking questions about which faith system has the most evidence.
00:37:04.040
It is very interesting what you'll find because the reality is archaeology.
00:37:08.040
Again, we got a little Gerald when I brought this up last time,
00:37:11.760
There's a lot in Scripture that is verifiable and true.
00:37:16.620
And, well, that actually does relate to what you're talking about,
00:37:20.100
which is the relative evidence for the religions.
00:37:22.320
Because on the one hand, you see this syncretic stuff,
0.96
00:37:24.840
the malocchio, the evil eye with Christianity.
0.98
00:37:27.300
And you always see degrees of syncretism crop up
0.90
00:37:34.860
which is the mixing of the occult with Christianity.
0.60
00:37:37.600
There's, I guess you get a little bit of that in the Mediterranean too.
00:37:43.920
you'll get a little New Age weird woo-woo stuff in addition to Christianity.
00:37:51.520
But the one that really threw me for a loop there was she married a Muslim.
1.00
00:37:55.120
And she says that there's no, I mean, if she converts him, that's all good.
00:37:59.260
But you're saying there's no conflict between Islam and Christianity?
0.94
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Well, there's a major conflict between Islam and Christianity.
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00:38:05.180
The denial of Jesus as God, the denial of the crucifixion, the denial of all of that.
0.62
00:38:12.760
I mean, one thing that people don't know, and I think it's helpful to know, is that, yes, Islam looks at Jesus as the second most important prophet, but it's not the same Jesus, right?
0.57
00:38:21.440
This is not the Jesus that we have of Christianity.
00:38:27.180
You know, my position on, you know, are Muslims and Christians worshiping the same God?
00:38:31.680
No, they're not, because now I understand the view of Allah and God as the Father being the same.
0.61
00:38:38.580
But the Christian belief is that you have Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
00:38:42.860
If you're not acknowledging that, then no, it is not the same God.
0.76
00:38:45.600
But then you'd say the Jews don't worship the same God.
0.98
00:38:47.940
Well, I think this is an interesting argument, right?
00:38:54.040
It's different in that the Old Testament, both religious systems.
00:38:58.620
So, yes, in a sense, it's not the same in terms of Christianity looking at Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
00:39:05.660
The Father God in Islam is not the same because it's not the same holy book.
0.94
00:39:12.560
Well, it's a rewritten version of the Bible, right?
0.97
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Whereas Christians acknowledge the Old Testament, right?
0.96
00:39:19.020
So you're looking at the same scriptures, whereas I would say it's the same Father.
0.95
00:39:22.720
but they would but the jews wouldn't say that they wouldn't even refer to god as the father
0.64
00:39:27.820
because they deny the son right so from the jewish so from the jewish perspective no it's
00:39:32.260
not the same but i think what i would say the father from the christian perspective is the
00:39:35.480
same father it's the same but not the same for islam but not the same for islam totally different
00:39:39.920
holy book what but it's different book but you might be talking about the you could in principle
00:39:44.940
be talking about the same god couldn't you or no i would have to be the same book this i know this
00:39:50.380
is a big debate. I would say, I would say, no, I don't believe it's the same God. I know that
00:39:54.360
people would say, well, the three Abrahamic faiths, they're worshiping the same father.
00:39:57.700
I think the argument for Jews and Christians would be you're working from the same text,
00:40:02.200
right? At least in the old Testament. So Christians, obviously from the Jewish perspective,
00:40:06.780
but the Jews are working from other texts too, like the Talmud. That's true. Although it differs
0.59
00:40:11.580
and look, even in the Christian world, we can get complicated with this because there's certain
00:40:14.900
holy books that not like Catholics have some books that Protestants don't. So, but I think
00:40:19.020
it's much closer. I think the argument, there's a big difference between the way that Muslims are
00:40:23.580
looking at the father based on the Quran and the way that Jews and Christians are. What about the
00:40:28.780
God of Plato, the one? Is it the same God? Boy, no, it's not. It goes, to me, it goes back to the
00:40:37.460
text, right? So I would say the closest you're going to get between the two out of the three
00:40:42.660
would be Jews and Christians, Old Testament. Now you're dealing with totally different stories.
00:40:48.700
rewritten stories, I mean, in the Quran. But we're not talking about the books or the specific
00:40:53.500
stories. We're talking about God, the, you know, being himself, I am that I am. And so it seems
00:40:59.240
the way that I work out of this problem, which, you know, is very much the Catholic answer, but
00:41:04.940
it's that, no, these, when Plato is describing the one, he is describing, albeit through a veil
00:41:14.700
and somewhat vaguely. He is talking about God. And St. Augustine would see it that way. You see
00:41:21.620
the Neoplatonic tradition through all of Christianity. And so when the Jews are talking
1.00
00:41:28.020
about God, even though they deny the Son, they are talking about the same God. And even the
0.92
00:41:35.540
Muslims, you know, who have wrong conceptions of God, but they are talking about the same God.
0.99
00:41:39.800
So one of the problems with the Muslim conception is that, at least since the 9th century,
0.98
00:41:43.500
It's a voluntarist conception. Pope Benedict talks about this at Regensburg. He says that the Muslim conception of Allah is as one who is totally transcendent, pure will.
0.94
00:41:55.320
In other words, if Allah, and he's quoting this medieval Muslim historian, Ibn Hazm, if Allah willed his followers to worship idols, they would be bound to do so.
0.91
00:42:05.740
Whereas the Christian conception of God certainly does not permit of that, because the Christian
00:42:10.420
conception of God is a God that is identifiable with the Logos, the divine reason, which also
00:42:16.380
you see an early sense of in Plato and Aristotle, so that these are all the same God, albeit
00:42:24.100
with some misperceptions in Christianity, you have the fullness of truth.
0.93
00:42:28.440
But what it also means is we look at the Jews and we say, well, the Jews are missing out
0.90
00:42:34.660
Right. But think about for the Muslims, the Muslims deny the crucifixion. The Muslims in
0.94
00:42:41.700
the Quran, they say they crucified him not. They think that it was either an illusion or he was
00:42:46.680
rescued from the cross, but they cannot bear that Jesus was crucified. And they deny that he's God
00:42:52.100
as well. They deny the incarnation. But then it reminds me of St. Paul. I think Philippians 318,
00:42:57.780
I might be getting the verse wrong because I'm Catholic. We don't, you know, we don't say it as
00:43:01.200
Well, but I think it's Philippians 3.18 where he says,
00:43:05.540
there are many walking now, and I tell you, even weeping,
00:43:10.080
And I find that to be a really interesting phrase,
00:43:12.580
and it has all sorts of meaning and resonance.
0.93
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But one of the little winks that I see from that is in this rise of Islam,
0.57
00:43:19.700
which is a religion that very explicitly denies the crucifixion,
0.98
00:43:25.560
I think this is a really interesting conversation because, you know,
00:43:30.300
we're actually talking about two different things, I think. You're talking about the concept of God,
00:43:34.580
which I actually think of the Father, let's say, right? Which I think, as we're talking about it,
00:43:39.620
I'm thinking about, in practice, the nature of how God would play his nature out in human affairs.
00:43:46.420
And I think when I'm talking about the Jews in the Old Testament and the Christians,
00:43:50.800
they would have a more similar ideology of how God the Father in the Old Testament would apply
00:43:57.040
himself to specific circumstances. I think juxtaposing that to the Quran, there'd be some
00:44:02.520
differences of how the father may. Well, I don't know. I mean, the Jews deny, modern rabbinical
00:44:07.580
Jews consider it blasphemy that one could even think of the incarnation, that God himself is
00:44:13.320
incarnate as a man. And the Muslims think substantially the same thing. Really, same goes
0.99
00:44:21.040
for the crucifixion, the notion that God could die, which of course, Christians, we say, well,
00:44:24.860
Christ dies in his human nature, obviously not in his divine nature.
00:44:30.860
I guess what I'm saying is the Jewish and Muslim view of God the Father, it's different,
00:44:38.880
Or I guess we should just say God, because God is one, three distinct persons in one
00:44:43.580
But I don't know that it's quite as different as we're claiming here.
00:44:48.180
And so then you get this tough problem, which is if you say that Muslims don't worship the
00:44:51.740
real God or they don't pray to the real God or they're not at least reaching out for the real
00:44:55.440
God, then it seems to me you basically have to say the same thing about the Jews, which people
0.67
00:44:59.840
don't want to do. Well, I would, I mean, would you do, would you say it? No, I think that, I think
00:45:05.140
that Muslims, when they're calling out to God, they are in fact speaking about God. They just
1.00
00:45:10.060
misunderstand God and they've missed the incarnation, which is a pity for them. And that's
00:45:14.080
why they should. Well, I would actually agree with you. I would actually agree with you. I actually
00:45:16.860
don't think we're as far off on that. I'm thinking in terms of, again, that the nature of God that
00:45:20.860
we would read, and we would say, okay, but you're correct that the Jews would reject that. I think
1.00
00:45:25.780
from the Christian perspective, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, I believe there's only one tradition that
00:45:29.480
has that right, and it's the Christian tradition, right? I think that if somebody held a gun to my
00:45:33.340
head and said, which one has a better, if I had to pick between Jews and Muslims and the Father God,
00:45:38.980
one part of our trinity, which one has a clearer concept of his nature, I would say I think the
0.67
00:45:45.140
Jews do. Yes, but then we'd fall into partialism, which that very funny Lutheran video on St.
0.87
00:45:49.340
Paddy's Day tells me it's a damnable heresy.
0.97
00:46:05.520
to make a decision between the Jews and the Muslims
00:46:09.000
whether we're talking about geopolitics or anything else,
00:46:14.560
I want to hang out with the pastrami people
1.00
00:46:18.160
Not that I look shawarma every once in a while, it's okay.
00:46:20.420
But the reason I think it's crucial is not to sound like a woo-woo kind of like lib guy.
00:46:28.000
Look, I believe in dogmatic religion with doctrines and sacraments and a hierarchy and a visible structure and a vicar of Christ on earth.
00:46:38.840
However, God is God, you know, and God is not constrained by the feebleness of our own rational conceptions.
00:46:46.600
And so if there's a Muslim guy hanging out, or a Jewish guy hanging out, or a Greco-pagan guy hanging out before the incarnation, and they speak of God as Plato did, I think that God could be reaching out to them.
00:47:08.600
And I think they could have a sense of who God is, even if they weren't totally properly catechized.
00:47:14.740
Well, I mean, the first step is reaching out to God to begin with, right?
00:47:20.800
But still, nice Catholic girls should not marry Muslim guys unless they convert.
1.00
00:47:26.540
I mean, there's no world in which, I mean, you're unequally yoked.
00:47:29.200
There's no world in which this is something that would be a blessed or good decision to be doing willfully.
00:47:34.800
Now, you may end up in a marriage where you convert to Christianity and the other person, you know, that may happen.
00:47:40.180
That's a different story than entering into it.
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You're asking for a lot of trouble and difficulty.
00:47:44.580
And I think to then justify it, I know that sounds harsh, is an inappropriate way to tackle it.
1.00
00:47:49.880
Yeah, yeah, especially with the, because the Muslim conception of religion is a little, even culturally, it's not really all that compatible.
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And it's just basically, not to be politically incorrect, but, you know, let's get the conversion first.
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why chose islam over christianity well the fact of the matter is the level of commitment and
00:48:15.780
submission to your creator it just hit different praying five times a day is one not practicing
00:48:22.100
any of these paganistic holidays is too like christmas and halloween and all this staying
00:48:28.820
away from intoxicants like drinking this that literally following the ways of all the previous
00:48:35.540
prophets. A lot of Christians today, with all due respect, y'all slacking on y'all commitment to the
00:48:42.540
laws and the commandments of God. In the Islamic religion, that is not tolerable.
1.00
00:48:49.620
Okay, this is interesting to me because it's very, very heavy-handed on the mandates that
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a religion carries, right? If you don't want to drink, don't drink, right? I mean, Christianity,
00:48:59.880
I believe, doesn't have an issue with getting drunk, yes. If you feel like people need to
00:49:04.560
be more devout. They need to be more connected to their faith. Well, that's not a bad criticism.
00:49:08.180
I think a lot of Christians aren't actually living in the way they should, not because they should
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be mandated to do it, which is more what he seems to be talking about. Like he wants the structure
0.93
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of a religion saying, you need to do this, this, this, and that. And if you don't do that, then
00:49:19.820
you're not doing the right thing. Whereas I want more of a relationship, right, with God that
00:49:24.140
implores me to do those things. And love motivating you. Yes. And love rather than, you know, servile
00:49:28.580
fear. Yeah, this was always the knock on Islam, is that Islam is just so carnal. It's just
1.00
00:49:36.540
so carnal. Even the, you know, the Christian conception of heaven, traditional conception
00:49:41.360
is that, you know, you're before the beatific vision. So it's really ineffable. St. Thomas
00:49:47.240
says when he has a vision of God, he says, you know, everything I've written is such
00:49:50.920
straw. This is the common doctor of the church. It's one of the greatest theologians ever
00:49:54.060
to live or St. Paul describing being lifted up to the seventh heaven or, you know, and whereas
1.00
00:49:59.060
with the Muslims, the, the idea is you, if you go to heaven and you just get to sleep with a bunch
1.00
00:50:05.020
of virgins, you know, it's so carnal. And it's funny because there's a kind of a parallel with
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the Jews in that the, the Jews have this very literal exegesis, which is intentional, you know,
00:50:17.340
like God literally chooses Israel as this, as this figure, you know, of all the nations in whom,
00:50:23.660
there's neither Jew nor Greek nor slave nor bond or male nor female. But it's like God works
00:50:28.480
through particular people. I mean, like the son of God is incarnate. His name is Jesus. He has a
00:50:34.180
mother and a stepfather. And it's like a time and a place in history and he has friends and
00:50:38.600
disciples and all. So there's this particular, but in Christianity, the particular figures,
00:50:45.460
the universal and the, you know, there's, there's moral exegesis, anagogical exegesis,
00:50:50.700
you know, it kind of opens up vertically. And so I think probably the Islamic exegesis is much
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more to be blamed than the Jewish exegesis, because the Jewish exegesis really is coming
00:51:03.560
from the literal, which is how God expresses himself in history. Whereas Islam comes later,
00:51:08.220
Islam comes seven centuries later and says, actually, all that spiritual reading, forget
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about that. We're going to go back and you're going to get virgins in heaven.
0.96
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So, and I mean, listening to him, I resonate with that critique because I have fallen into
00:51:21.940
You know, in the last few years, I've gotten much deeper into my faith and, you know, I'm
00:51:24.960
an evangelical, I guess, you know, who even knows what that term means anymore, but, you
00:51:30.300
And, you know, I'm not about, look, I have no problem with tradition and following steps,
00:51:34.320
but that is not the thing that's going to motivate me.
00:51:36.220
It's going to be the relationship, as you were saying, through love.
00:51:38.380
So he was listing these things off and I thought, do you really need to be that, you need to
00:51:59.740
Yeah, I think we all can do a better job at that.
00:52:06.540
I guess it's not the worst motivation in the world,
00:52:16.000
A real relationship with God and with Christ is what is sustainable.
00:52:19.500
It is what the ebbs and the flows of life, right?
00:52:22.300
When you have children, when you have family, when you have crisis, when you have ups and
00:52:25.860
downs, that relationship is going to be what carries you through.
00:52:29.140
That is what sustains you, not I followed these 20 steps and they got me there.
00:52:33.720
Those things might hold you for a little while, but not permanently.
00:52:35.700
A priest once explained this to me in a homily where he said, you know, we have this view
00:52:48.700
going to their first confession when they're seven.
00:52:50.460
He said, a seven-year-old doesn't have any sense
00:52:54.780
when they start really thinking of these things.
00:53:00.700
it messes us up that sinning is when you break a rule.
00:53:05.500
Sinning is a violation of a relationship of grace.
00:53:08.040
and there are rules, like there are guardrails, but it's not, now my own words, I don't think
00:53:16.240
people go to hell on technicalities. You know, I don't, like, I don't think you fool God ever.
00:53:22.200
And so when this guy says, look, now my religion is super based. I don't drink booze for whatever
00:53:27.720
it is. Let's not forget Christ's first miracle is true. Right. Yes. And it was not grape juice.
00:53:31.280
And it was, yes. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, and it was for people who'd been drinking for a while.
00:53:34.340
Right. And they actually appreciated it because it was the better wine. So, I mean, I don't like
00:53:38.020
Like this whole story that we've recreated to pretend you can never drink is wild to me.
00:53:45.440
And to your point, like nothing's stopping you from praying five times a day.
00:53:51.280
It doesn't say you have to do it five times a day facing any particular city.
00:53:55.400
And then the question of like true religion to me is, look, I like outward signs.
00:54:04.960
like but what are you doing when nobody's looking what are you doing in your car or what are you
00:54:12.960
doing when you're talking to your wife and you're kind of frustrated what are you doing you know it's
00:54:16.840
like to me that is going to tell you more about your religion probably than vestments yeah yeah
00:54:23.420
i mean look that when i started working on these projects these films i started doing prayer walks
00:54:28.420
for the first time because i i hate silence and i realize this about myself i fill silence with
00:54:33.660
music. I fill it with other things. We all do. And it's a huge struggle for me because I don't
00:54:38.720
like silence. And I thought, if I'm never in silence, am I ever hearing God? And so I started
00:54:42.800
every morning at 545 going out for like a 20 minute walk without anything and just praying.
00:54:48.160
And that's been something that I've continued and it has transformed everything for me. Not
00:54:52.280
because I'm doing that every morning at that time or because it's because it's a real time to connect
00:54:56.960
with God and it has nothing to do with any particular steps I'm taking. Or again, there's
00:55:01.740
nothing wrong with if you want to do sacraments do them but it's about that connection and i feel
00:55:05.800
like when i hear this i don't hear and i'm not saying he's not connected i don't know what is
00:55:10.000
in his heart i just don't hear that being the argument i hear the argument being i chose this
00:55:14.000
because it gives me a structure that will keep me and i keep hearing this from people and i keep
00:55:17.660
saying to myself that's not going to be what keeps you you got to have that deeper i mean there's the
00:55:21.740
it's there's this idea that lex arondi lex credendi the way that we worship certainly informs the way
00:55:27.220
that we believe certainly but then there's that third part which is lex vivendi which is like the
00:55:31.620
way you live your whole life and yeah with with him he says man it's awesome like i pray five
00:55:38.480
times a day and i wonder and to your point in this modern world if you're never silent how can
00:55:44.820
you possibly hear the voice of god you can't i mean it's so convicting and and when i realized
00:55:49.300
last september that i was never if you had asked me a year ago what does it mean to hear the voice
00:55:52.980
of god i would have had an answer that was totally different from what i have now what would you say
00:55:56.060
Now I would say, you know, look, I don't hear, I don't hear an audible voice of God. I know there
00:56:00.220
are people who claim they do, but I, when I pray, I feel him speak to me in my mind. Almost I get
00:56:05.180
responses that are very direct sometimes. And that's new for me. And I'm still trying to
00:56:09.060
understand it and I'm still navigating it. And there are days where I'm like, if I'm being very
00:56:12.460
candid, is that me or God? Cause I really want that thing that I'm praying for. And I'll go back
00:56:16.500
to God and be like, is that me or you, you know, like clarify that for me, show me that has given
00:56:21.120
me a clarity I've never, I've never really had before. And I've been a Christian for 42 years,
00:56:24.900
like my whole entire life. Right. But I'm like, well, have I been right? I know that's like,
00:56:28.740
I like, have I really been, or has it really been like the last five years? And maybe the reality
00:56:32.660
is it's been the last five years. And I was just on that path, but it has transformed everything
00:56:37.060
for me. Yeah. So, you know, sanctification is a, that's right. It's a journey. It's a process.
00:56:41.460
Yes. And I have a lot, in 10 years, hopefully, hopefully I've learned more. Imagine what you'll
00:56:44.840
say in 10 years. Have me back. We'll find out. Okay. We've run out of really stupid clips.
00:56:49.440
Now we get a good clip from your movie, investigating the supernatural angels and
0.99
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And all of a sudden, we hear this guttural-sounding voice
00:57:11.160
You think the changing locations will help you?
1.00
00:57:23.160
that's pretty scary that's dr gallagher yeah that's after that's a reenactment of dr gallagher
00:57:30.140
with julia well i didn't i didn't think it was like i mean original footage well you never know
00:57:34.400
they could have had they could have had a camera in the car you don't know it's a modern era um
00:57:38.080
but yeah no that that was julia i mean this the things that he saw now again a secularist would
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00:57:43.580
say well she's just you know mentally ill she's just crazy but when you juxtapose that against
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the other stories when you triangulate it all rather you start to see a person who was clearly
0.95
00:57:52.420
struggling with something well beyond what mental health providers would have been able to help her
00:57:56.500
with right and so that's just one example of it one other story that i'll share and this one's a
00:58:01.480
little bit wild with dr gallagher he was on a call with the priest and they heard they heard a voice
00:58:06.780
come over this phone call now julia's a thousand miles away and they're on a phone call together
00:58:11.240
and they hear this voice telling them very similar to what you saw there leave her alone you know
00:58:15.880
telling them off you know cursing them out basically over the phone both of them heard it
00:58:19.940
verified it Gallagher was like it was bizarre but we heard the voice very clearly on the call
00:58:24.600
nobody else was on the call so you have again 10 different stories about julia like that and
00:58:29.100
unfortunately i won't spoil it but her story does not end the way you would have hoped it would
00:58:33.080
that means you gotta watch a movie you gotta watch a movie cbn.com forward slash supernatural forget
00:58:37.960
about the exorcist forget about the exorcism of emily rose you can get it at cbn.com forward slash
00:58:43.280
supernatural slash supernatural head on over there right now billy a an excellent pleasure i hope i
00:58:54.700
That's right. Next time you're in town, I can't