The Michael Knowles Show - ＂Lost Technology, Nephilim, & The Mainstream Lies＂ Michael & The Rogue Archaeologist

00:00:01.000 You searched for your informant, who disappeared without a trace.

00:00:07.680 You knew there were witnesses, but lips were sealed.

00:00:11.920 You swept the city, driving closer to the truth,

00:00:17.640 while curled up on the couch with your cat.

00:00:22.400 There's more to imagine when you listen.

00:00:24.800 Discover heart-pounding thrillers on Audible.

00:00:30.000 Many of these extraordinary megalithic sites around the world were built in the age before the flood.

00:00:35.540 The ancient Egyptians and the Greeks and the Romans and all the rest of them,

00:00:38.920 they believe that the very same thing occurred.

00:00:41.360 I don't even know if people are going to believe me when I say this.

00:00:43.340 When you started talking about the aliens and the antimatter,

00:00:46.660 all the lights went off.

00:00:48.920 They have a $4,000 confidence monitor.

00:00:51.220 It like fizzed like the picture got all crazy.

00:00:53.480 Maybe somebody's signaling to us to shut up.

00:01:00.000 Demons, aliens, ziggurats, ancient civilizations.

00:01:08.680 Much of what you think you know about archaeology and ancient history could be wrong.

00:01:16.260 I, for one, know nothing about archaeology and ancient history,

00:01:19.480 so I guess I'm not wrong.

00:01:21.720 I just, well, hopefully I will be right by the end of my interview with Timothy Albarino.

00:01:27.340 Mr. Albarino, thank you for coming on the show, sir.

00:01:29.120 Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:30.160 It's my pleasure.

00:01:30.880 And thank you for smoking a delicious Mayflower cigar.

00:01:33.560 And it is delicious.

00:01:34.840 I thought for this conversation, we needed a cigar.

00:01:38.420 Mm-hmm.

00:01:39.680 Mandatory.

00:01:41.500 You wrote a very popular book, Birthright,

00:01:44.940 about ancient civilizations, archaeology.

00:01:48.140 You're an explorer.

00:01:49.120 You're a researcher.

00:01:50.000 You look like Indiana Jones.

00:01:51.280 You've lived in Peru for a decade.

00:01:52.640 You wrote this very popular book about how there are some gaps in scholarly archaeology,

00:02:00.240 ancient history, things that you're not allowed to talk about in the academy,

00:02:04.760 that scholars write off, that you think are worth exploring.

00:02:08.720 It's done very well.

00:02:09.920 And your view is that the Bible is actually a good guide to understanding the ancient past,

00:02:18.880 which I guess distinguishes you from other people who are revisionist on ancient history

00:02:23.560 and archaeology.

00:02:24.440 Yeah, that's right.

00:02:24.920 I think that's accurate.

00:02:25.580 So, I come from a biblical paradigm.

00:02:29.300 That's my worldview.

00:02:30.660 And it's not because I've been indoctrinated into Christianity.

00:02:33.360 It's because I've been entirely convinced that the gospel of Christ is true.

00:02:37.920 So, that's my perspective.

00:02:39.380 I believe that the biblical narrative is an accurate account.

00:02:42.580 Now, that doesn't mean I'm a literalist in every detail.

00:02:45.520 But I think that it's remarkable.

00:02:47.880 It's the most remarkable book ever compiled for many reasons.

00:02:51.560 And it does happen to be, in my opinion, very accurate and enlightening about the past,

00:02:58.960 even the deep past, the distant past, the antediluvian world.

00:03:03.460 And so, I've traveled all around the world and have investigated.

00:03:07.160 I investigate, I guess you could describe it as fringe topics.

00:03:11.420 So, I don't have a background in academia.

00:03:14.360 I don't have a doctorate in anything.

00:03:16.500 But I've spent a lot of years in, let's say, Central America, South America,

00:03:25.580 studying megaliths, studying lost civilizations.

00:03:31.580 And really what I would say the moment that convinced me that we're missing large portions

00:03:39.460 of our historic past, of the deep past.

00:03:43.480 I'm talking about the antediluvian past, the pre-flood past, is when I stood in front

00:03:48.240 of the megaliths for the first time in Cusco, in the city of Cusco.

00:03:52.380 And especially the megalithic complex of Sacsayhuaman, which is in Cusco.

00:03:58.220 And it is one of the most magnificent stone structures on earth.

00:04:03.140 The walls are mammoth.

00:04:05.260 They're made of polygonal stones that are fitted together so precisely that you cannot slip

00:04:11.100 a butter knife between the joints.

00:04:13.900 And they're beveled, so they have this pillowed appearance.

00:04:17.260 And some of these stones, the foundation stones, weigh in excess of 250 to 300 tons.

00:04:23.800 And they were quarried some 10 miles, 10 to 20 miles away.

00:04:27.380 And it was standing in front of the walls of Sacsayhuaman that really, I mean, because

00:04:32.080 you can read things in books and you can theorize about lost civilizations and ancient technology.

00:04:38.840 But when you stand in front of megalithic walls, there's something so convincing about that

00:04:49.660 in relationship to the idea that we're missing something.

00:04:53.520 We don't have the whole story.

00:04:55.080 What distinguishes specifically your view of the ancient past with the popularly held view

00:05:02.660 in the academy?

00:05:03.720 I've never been to Sacsayhuaman.

00:05:05.240 I've never been invited.

00:05:06.380 But if I did go down there, I wouldn't even know how to distinguish what the scholarly

00:05:10.360 crew thinks about it and what maybe the more fringe theorists think about it.

00:05:15.480 In regard to the megaliths in Peru, there's many megalithic sites in Peru.

00:05:21.400 The academic consensus is that most of these sites, especially the ones around Cusco, also

00:05:26.800 Ojantaytambo, Machu Picchu, were constructed by the Inca.

00:05:31.040 And the Inca were an extraordinary empire.

00:05:34.260 I mean, this was an extraordinary civilization.

00:05:36.460 They were able to do many things that other pre-Columbian cultures could not achieve.

00:05:42.540 In many ways, they were like the Romans of South America.

00:05:45.080 They built amazing roads and aqueducts.

00:05:48.260 And so I have a lot of respect for the Inca civilization, but they did not build the megaliths.

00:05:54.540 Because the Inca, while old, aren't that old.

00:05:57.300 No, they're not that old.

00:05:58.820 So I believe that the Inca discovered these megalithic sites, Machu Picchu, certainly

00:06:06.960 Sacsayhuaman, and they decided to inhabit them and rebuild them.

00:06:10.920 Because the Inca viewed themselves as the offspring of the gods.

00:06:14.160 They were the children of the sun.

00:06:16.260 And when you talk about the Inca, the Inca does not describe the totality of the culture,

00:06:20.640 of the civilization.

00:06:21.820 The Inca was a very specific, very particular bloodline within that civilization.

00:06:26.160 It was the royal bloodline.

00:06:27.860 Only they were the Inca.

00:06:29.920 The Spanish called them the orejones because they had the large discs in their ears.

00:06:34.420 They had the large earlobes.

00:06:36.680 Like my barista at Starbucks.

00:06:38.020 Yeah.

00:06:38.280 Yes.

00:06:38.620 Right.

00:06:38.920 Yes.

00:06:39.460 And so this culture, within this culture, the Inca culture, you have this royal bloodline,

00:06:45.640 as I said, who considered themselves to be the offspring of the gods.

00:06:48.780 And so when they came upon the megalithic ruins, the remains of what they could only interpret

00:06:55.960 as the works of the gods.

00:06:57.520 I mean, we're talking about massive stones that are, as I said, cut with such precision

00:07:01.440 that they're fitted together without the use of mortar.

00:07:05.160 And archaeologists refer to this style of building, this style of masonry, as cyclopean masonry.

00:07:11.520 And you find it all over the earth, especially as it pertains to megaliths, because obviously

00:07:16.040 Peru isn't the only place on the planet with megaliths, but this architecture, cyclopean

00:07:21.640 architecture, where they have these massive stones exquisitely cut and dressed and then

00:07:27.620 fit together without the use of mortar, I believe that is the signature of an ancient

00:07:33.720 advanced civilization that was annihilated from the face of the earth in the deep past.

00:07:40.540 What time were we talking about?

00:07:41.960 How deep is it?

00:07:42.900 We're talking 10,000 plus years ago.

00:07:45.220 Okay.

00:07:46.100 So the scholarly consensus view is that human civilization arose within the last, what,

00:07:53.540 5,000 years?

00:07:54.360 Yeah.

00:07:55.100 And you're saying, no, no, there was this pre, to our understanding, human civilization that

00:08:02.400 built all this stuff.

00:08:03.180 So then the question, of course, is who were they and where did they go?

00:08:07.720 And why do you think this?

00:08:08.880 I mean, why couldn't the Inca have done it?

00:08:10.880 Well, let me address that first.

00:08:12.800 We know that the Inca didn't build the walls of Sacsayhuaman.

00:08:15.140 Now, you won't read this in any history books and you won't hear archaeologists saying

00:08:18.800 this, but my friend and colleague, Anselm P. Rambla, he's a Spanish explorer, researcher,

00:08:24.000 and he actually excavated at the walls of Sacsayhuaman, the walls I was referring to earlier, those

00:08:30.660 magnificent megalithic walls.

00:08:32.280 He got permission from the Ministry of Culture in Peru to conduct an excavation in the site,

00:08:39.900 generally in various areas of Sacsayhuaman.

00:08:43.300 And he dug down to the foundation stones of Sacsayhuaman, to the lower levels.

00:08:48.580 And what he discovered at the lower levels were pre-Incan artifacts and only pre-Incan artifacts.

00:08:56.000 How do you know?

00:08:57.420 What distinguishes a pre-Incan artifact?

00:08:58.960 Well, I mean, there's artifacts that archaeologists can identify as Inca and then artifacts that belong to

00:09:04.000 cultures that pre-existed the Inca or that were conquered by the Inca.

00:09:06.700 So the kind of artifact that you wouldn't have found at a higher level, I guess.

00:09:10.720 Precisely right.

00:09:11.420 So he's digging deep down into the soil there in front of Sacsayhuaman, and he's finding only pre-Incan artifacts.

00:09:18.600 This is definitive evidence that those walls pre-exist the Inca.

00:09:27.180 They were there before the Inca discovered them.

00:09:30.420 In fact, we talked about Sacsayhuaman also being a megalithic site.

00:09:33.120 Most people don't realize that Machu Picchu is also a megalithic site.

00:09:36.700 And Machu Picchu is extraordinary.

00:09:38.440 It's one of the most beautiful places in the world that I've ever seen.

00:09:42.380 I mean, certainly in terms of archaeological remains, Machu Picchu is phenomenal.

00:09:47.040 Most people don't realize that the foundations of Machu Picchu are megalithic.

00:09:51.620 And they have the same sort of polygonal, cyclopean architecture as you see in Cusco.

00:09:57.760 And the Inca, I believe, discovered these ruins and seeing themselves as the offspring of the gods,

00:10:04.540 they concluded that it was their birthright to inhabit what was once the habitation of the gods and rebuild, rebuild their monuments.

00:10:13.160 And everywhere you go in Peru, and I would say all around the world, people have made use, obviously, of these magnificent megalithic foundations

00:10:20.040 and have built with inferior techniques on top of them.

00:10:23.320 And this is evident in Machu Picchu.

00:10:25.700 This is certainly evident in Machu Picchu.

00:10:27.920 In fact, Machu Picchu, the Quechua, the real name for Machu Picchu is Ijampu.

00:10:33.620 And what does Ijampu mean?

00:10:35.360 The abode of the gods.

00:10:37.280 The dwelling of the gods.

00:10:38.860 So if this is so evident in Machu Picchu, why don't any of the people at Harvard agree that this is a megalithic, pre-modern notions of ancient history structure?

00:10:51.160 Because they're worried about their careers.

00:10:53.280 They're worried about the esteem of their colleagues.

00:10:55.560 They're worried about being published in the prestigious magazines and having a future in their field.

00:11:02.440 And they would be ostracized.

00:11:03.960 I mean, if you talk about, let's put it this way, when I was at Machu, I've been to Machu Picchu numerous occasions.

00:11:12.360 And there was this particular time, I was actually with my colleague Anselm P. Ramla at the time, and there was a guide.

00:11:18.440 And he was very, very, very knowledgeable.

00:11:20.540 He was an old guide.

00:11:21.320 He's been a guide there for decades.

00:11:22.600 And the guides are very well trained in the conventional narrative of the Inca and especially of Machu Picchu.

00:11:27.880 And we were quizzing him on certain aspects of the architecture at Machu Picchu.

00:11:35.420 For example, you can look across the courtyard at Machu Picchu, and you'll see a wall, a megalithic wall with polygonal stones, which means they're stones that have all different kinds of angles in them.

00:11:45.640 Some of these stones have a dozen angles in them, and they're fit precisely to the other stones around them.

00:11:50.380 And they're anti-seismic, by the way.

00:11:52.240 But then right on top of them, you would have this inferior stonework.

00:11:57.020 And some of that, much of that is archaeological reconstruction, but some of it we know was not, was the Inca did it.

00:12:01.920 They built on top.

00:12:03.120 And I asked him, I said, that wall there, very clearly, the lower levels are superior to the higher levels.

00:12:11.320 You were looking at two different techniques of masonry, of architecture, one superior, one inferior.

00:12:18.480 How do you explain that if the Inca built that?

00:12:23.000 Why would they start off with this superior technique, and then gradually the technique becomes inferior?

00:12:29.760 Why would they do that?

00:12:31.360 What's the explanation?

00:12:32.720 What is the conventional explanation?

00:12:34.960 And he thought about it for a moment, and he said, because that's the way they like to do it.

00:12:41.640 That was the answer.

00:12:42.860 Because that's the way they like to do it.

00:12:44.580 Because they did.

00:12:45.280 To do it, exactly.

00:12:46.000 And I said, well, how is that rational?

00:12:48.680 How can you logically deduce this?

00:12:52.720 I mean, honestly, that they did this just because that's the way they like to do it, or they like the way it looked.

00:12:59.200 I said, you're a smart guy.

00:13:01.840 You're well-trained in academia.

00:13:05.020 And they are, all of the guys up there at Machu Picchu.

00:13:06.920 I said, there's no way you actually believe that.

00:13:09.600 And he conceded to us, yeah, you're right.

00:13:12.680 That's ludicrous.

00:13:13.920 It really is ludicrous.

00:13:15.140 And so, what are we looking at?

00:13:17.400 The megaliths around the world, not just in Peru.

00:13:19.460 We're talking about the ones in Peru here, but they're all over the world.

00:13:22.000 Baalbek, for example, is one of the most magnificent.

00:13:24.160 I mean, you have-

00:13:25.060 Where's Baalbek?

00:13:25.820 Baalbek is a megalithic site in Lebanon.

00:13:28.680 It's one of the most magnificent megalithic sites on Earth.

00:13:31.700 Huge stones that weigh thousands of tons.

00:13:33.640 And, of course, the conventional explanation is that the Romans built it.

00:13:39.440 And, indeed, they raised the temple to Jupiter there on that site.

00:13:44.000 But just like the Inca discovered the megaliths and determined that they were going to build on top of them and rebuild the abode of the gods,

00:13:50.100 So, I believe the Romans and cultures that predate the Romans did the same thing.

00:13:54.640 Of course, you're going to use the megalithic foundations.

00:13:57.420 See, the megaliths, they're not just, it's not just exquisite architecture.

00:14:03.020 It's not just exquisite masonry.

00:14:05.420 They're anti-seismic.

00:14:08.460 They're built in such a way that they don't collapse during earthquakes.

00:14:13.180 And I'll go back to Cusco here because Cusco is a perfect example of this.

00:14:16.860 When the Spaniards invaded and conquered the city of Cusco, they began to disassemble the higher levels of Sacsayhuaman

00:14:24.920 because it starts off with large foundational stones and the stones gradually get smaller as they ascend to the top of the structure.

00:14:32.140 And so, they took all of the stones that they could manage and carry away and they built their cathedrals.

00:14:38.580 And the Spanish were no slouches at building cathedrals.

00:14:42.280 The Spaniards had amazing architects and they knew what they were doing.

00:14:47.400 And they built their cathedrals in the city of Cusco on top of the ruins of the Incan temples that they demolished.

00:14:55.500 And they built their cathedrals.

00:14:56.920 And every time there's a major earthquake, the cathedrals fall.

00:15:02.140 But you know what doesn't fall?

00:15:03.660 Those megalithic walls that I believe have been standing there for thousands of years.

00:15:08.260 Is one explanation as to why the craftsmanship gets shoddier toward the top just that it's harder to build stuff the higher up you go?

00:15:15.900 I don't know.

00:15:16.580 What do I know?

00:15:16.940 I don't know anything about architecture.

00:15:17.740 No, if you look at some of these walls, you'll notice that there's this exquisite architecture.

00:15:23.920 There's this impressive superior masonry.

00:15:27.900 And then you'll find gaps in that masonry where obviously something happened and they had to replace the original stone.

00:15:35.620 And they replaced it with a totally different inferior technique and inferior stone work.

00:15:41.080 And it's evident.

00:15:43.960 For example, and we'll go back to Peru for a minute.

00:15:46.480 You go to this megalithic site called Ojantaytambo.

00:15:51.140 Ojantaytambo is a fascinating site because in Peru, you're going to find two different techniques for megalith building.

00:15:56.560 One of the techniques is the polygonal, what's known as the beveled polygonal, cyclopean walls.

00:16:04.900 But then you're going to find, and this other technique you find in Bolivia as well, it's the interlocking, the interlocking blocks.

00:16:13.240 In this method, they would actually, it was like Legos.

00:16:15.580 They would actually cut out a, let's say, a rectangular shape inside of the block.

00:16:20.780 And then they would fit it on top of a rectangular shape protruding from the block below it.

00:16:25.100 It would interlock like a Lego.

00:16:27.560 And in Ojantaytambo, you find both of these techniques together.

00:16:31.420 You find the polygonal and the interlocking.

00:16:35.220 And what's unique about Ojantaytambo is that this megalithic complex was in the process of being built.

00:16:41.920 You can see it.

00:16:42.600 The stones are being dressed and they're making their way up the side of the mountain where the complex crescendos in this temple structure called the Temple of the Sun at the top.

00:16:54.020 Very large stones in excess of probably somewhere around 80 to 100 tons.

00:17:00.000 And you can see the blocks making their way up and they're being dressed and they're huge megalithic blocks.

00:17:06.440 And there's even one particular block where it appears as if somebody was cutting into it with like a circular saw.

00:17:13.180 You can see the cut mark right through the block.

00:17:16.060 And it just stopped.

00:17:18.560 It halted.

00:17:19.320 And the construction came to an abrupt halt.

00:17:23.600 And now the conventional explanation is that the halt was because the Spaniards had arrived.

00:17:30.020 And the Inca were in the process of building another temple.

00:17:32.600 The Spaniards arrived so they stopped the work and they had to combat the Spanish.

00:17:37.220 In fact, they fought a – the only battle the Inca really won against the Spaniards was one right there at Sacsayhuaman because they were able to flood the valley.

00:17:44.580 It's an amazing story.

00:17:45.980 It really is an incredible story.

00:17:47.140 But they didn't build those walls.

00:17:49.220 I'm absolutely persuaded that the Inca did not build those walls.

00:17:53.040 And furthermore, many of these megaliths around the world, including at Ojantaytambo, are specifically aligned to particular cosmological phenomena.

00:18:03.980 And you can date the monument with the stars.

00:18:08.740 Right.

00:18:08.840 This is called archaeoastronomy.

00:18:10.900 And I have a good friend in Cusco whose name is Andres Adasme.

00:18:14.300 He's an archaeoastronomer.

00:18:15.840 And he figured out at Ojantaytambo that the dating based on – it was based on a solar alignment.

00:18:22.140 And it's very complex.

00:18:23.600 But he dates it to around 10,000 B.C.

00:18:27.580 Well, he also did the same thing with the city of Cusco.

00:18:29.860 And that's based on some particular solar phenomenon revolving around the three most important celestial objects for the Andean community, which is the Milky Way, the winter solstice, and the Southern Cross.

00:18:44.460 Those are the three primary celestial markers for the Andean people.

00:18:48.620 And based on those markers, you can reverse the clock with programs such as Stellarium.

00:18:55.040 And you can see if there are any celestial events, if the precession of the equinox and all kinds of different things, if there's a lock, if it can lock in.

00:19:04.140 In other words, if you can find a pattern.

00:19:06.220 Right.

00:19:06.720 And he did in the city of Cusco.

00:19:08.560 And the date was 10,000 B.C.

00:19:10.580 And I'm using Peru as an example to illustrate a larger point here.

00:19:15.600 It's the same all over the world as it pertains to megaliths.

00:19:20.000 Okay.

00:19:20.280 So if the construction didn't stop because the Spaniards arrived, as the conventional explanation goes, why did it stop?

00:19:29.160 And who were these people 10,000 years ago?

00:19:34.200 The construction came to an abrupt halt because the Earth was subjected to cataclysm.

00:19:42.500 Okay.

00:19:43.100 A massive.

00:19:46.160 Like a global flood, for instance?

00:19:47.700 Like a global flood.

00:19:48.900 But it wasn't just a flood.

00:19:50.500 It was a cataclysm, the destructive potential of which we can scarcely imagine.

00:19:57.340 So, and I believe that to some extent, some of these megaliths were being built in anticipation of cataclysm.

00:20:06.400 Like they knew it was coming.

00:20:07.680 And so they were building these massive megalithic edifices in the hope to survive it.

00:20:14.080 And that's my own personal theory.

00:20:17.140 So how would they have known it was coming?

00:20:20.060 Well, that's very complex.

00:20:21.080 That's based on the recession of the equinox.

00:20:23.820 It's based on the zodiac.

00:20:26.120 The transition of the aeons is cataclysmic.

00:20:29.180 The ancients knew this.

00:20:30.760 That's the purpose of the zodiac.

00:20:32.440 That's the purpose of many of these megalithic sites and other monuments around the world because the ancients knew.

00:20:37.120 I will say that the ancients believed, and when we say the ancients, we're talking about the ancient Near Eastern cultures, the Mesopotamians, the ancient Hebrews, the Egyptians, and then you have, of course, the ancient Greeks and the Romans.

00:20:51.180 And then other cultures around the world, like the Inca, like the Maya in Central and South America, they believed that the earth was subject to cyclic cataclysm, that every so many thousands of years, something happened.

00:21:05.060 And it would precipitate cataclysm on planet Earth.

00:21:09.700 And we're talking about civilization ending cataclysm.

00:21:14.220 And yes, the great flood of biblical fame is one such cataclysm, probably the greatest cataclysm in living memory.

00:21:22.700 And all of these ancient cultures around the world have a ubiquitous testimony of cataclysm.

00:21:30.100 I mean, this is the testimony of our ancestors.

00:21:32.620 And it's ubiquitous.

00:21:34.660 In every culture, you can find the mythologies, the legends of the great flood and of other kinds of cataclysms that annihilated the population of the earth and there was only a handful of survivors.

00:21:46.300 And yet, archaeologists and historians and the conventional narrative of history totally disregards the testimony of our ancestors.

00:21:54.160 Why are we doing that?

00:21:55.440 I mean, if it was just one culture or two cultures, you know, oh, that's just something that's in the Bible.

00:22:02.080 Yeah, yeah.

00:22:02.720 See, a lot of people think that the great flood is just in the Bible.

00:22:05.740 That couldn't be further from the truth.

00:22:07.060 Right.

00:22:07.420 It is everywhere.

00:22:08.680 Yeah, yeah.

00:22:09.000 I mean, there are hundreds of flood myths around the world that correspond to the same.

00:22:14.560 But they would say that the kind of secularist, modern flatterers of our own time would say, well, the flood myths recur in, you know, every civilization ever because it speaks to something within human nature.

00:22:30.380 So it might not have anything to do with a literal historical event.

00:22:33.960 And it almost certainly does not.

00:22:35.700 But there's just something about our nature that makes us imagine these flood myths.

00:22:39.800 I don't think I'm being unfair to them.

00:22:41.020 I think that's actually their point of view.

00:22:42.020 That's willful ignorance.

00:22:44.480 That's what that is.

00:22:45.360 They know that that's not true.

00:22:46.640 Hmm.

00:22:48.000 You give them more credit than I do.

00:22:49.480 I think they're not that smart.

00:22:50.520 Well, I've talked to, you know, there's the academic who's speaking.

00:22:55.380 Ex-Cathedra.

00:22:56.360 Ex-Cathedra.

00:22:56.680 Yeah, that's right.

00:22:57.560 And then there's the academic who's talking to you, smoking a cigar, having a cup of coffee.

00:23:01.680 Yeah, yeah.

00:23:02.220 Okay.

00:23:02.560 They have their public face and then they have their private opinions.

00:23:05.980 Yes, that's right.

00:23:06.540 And many of these guys privately will admit many things, many interesting things.

00:23:13.280 I've talked to academics and archaeologists and historians.

00:23:17.060 And privately, they'll admit, yeah, there probably was a cataclysm.

00:23:21.080 Yeah.

00:23:21.880 That's not hard to see.

00:23:24.920 And more.

00:23:26.140 They'll admit many of these guys privately that giants existed.

00:23:29.060 So, not only do we have the cataclysm confirmed in the Bible, also the existence of giants,

00:23:36.260 what are designated as the Nephilim in Genesis 6 and elsewhere in the Old Testament.

00:23:41.580 So, are the giants the ones who built the big megaliths and then stopped cutting at the moment of the cataclysm?

00:23:46.900 I don't know.

00:23:48.460 I don't know.

00:23:48.940 See, I think that's a possibility that some of these edifices perhaps could have been built by giants,

00:23:58.200 but certainly not all of them simply because of the proportions.

00:24:02.720 You know, there's people out there who are in my community who will say all the megaliths were built by giants.

00:24:06.800 Well, that can't be true because if you walk through some of the megaliths, they have doorways.

00:24:11.480 And the doorways are, you know, maybe a foot higher than my head.

00:24:16.480 And it's the original doorway, and nobody's going to build a house that they have to crouch down to get into, right?

00:24:22.540 Nobody's going to do that.

00:24:23.580 So, if one of these sites was built by giants for giants, then you would expect to see the proportions, right?

00:24:31.120 And you would expect to see very large doorways, very large corridors, very large stairwells, and you do at some of them.

00:24:40.560 I'll go back to Sacsayhuaman in Peru.

00:24:42.160 Sacsayhuaman, the doorways are massive.

00:24:44.560 The steps are spread apart so that, let's say they were built like we would build steps,

00:24:50.820 so that's the normal stride of our stature.

00:24:53.180 Well, if these stairs were built proportional to the stride of the builders, these are very tall guys.

00:24:59.320 We're talking nine, ten feet tall.

00:25:02.040 But if I go to great cathedrals or great, even, I don't know, even a great symphony hall or something,

00:25:08.640 sometimes they'll have very large doors.

00:25:10.440 That's a good point.

00:25:11.200 That's true.

00:25:11.680 So, could it just be that?

00:25:12.620 It could very well just be that.

00:25:13.700 I'm not saying that megaliths were built by giants.

00:25:16.140 It's possible.

00:25:17.980 I don't know who built the megaliths.

00:25:19.880 I don't know who built them.

00:25:20.940 Whoever built them, though, the conventional explanations are inadequate to account for the phenomenon.

00:25:27.680 So, if they were so technologically advanced that we can't even understand how they did what they did,

00:25:35.180 where did the technology go?

00:25:36.420 Who were they?

00:25:37.260 Were they some smarter race of creature?

00:25:40.420 Were they just human beings who figured things out and then generational knowledge was lost?

00:25:46.100 How did it happen?

00:25:47.140 The knowledge was lost.

00:25:49.460 And the ancients knew it.

00:25:51.760 The ancient Egyptians knew it.

00:25:53.320 The ancient Mesopotamians knew it.

00:25:54.520 They knew it.

00:25:55.680 They knew that the civilizations that had preexisted them, specifically the civilizations from before the great cataclysm,

00:26:03.540 from before the flood, were superior to their own.

00:26:06.340 So, they acknowledged them as such.

00:26:09.200 And this is what I'm trying to illustrate.

00:26:10.820 It's all over the world.

00:26:11.660 You have the fingerprints in the megaliths.

00:26:14.400 You have the fingerprints of an advanced lost civilization.

00:26:19.300 And it's ubiquitous.

00:26:21.240 Cyclopean architecture is ubiquitous all over the earth.

00:26:24.420 It's not that the Inca over here developed their, you know, megalith building technique

00:26:29.100 and the guys who built Baalbek developed a different one.

00:26:31.520 No, it's the same.

00:26:32.900 It's the same Cyclopean architecture.

00:26:34.940 They're working with the same knowledge.

00:26:36.540 You've used the word multiple times.

00:26:38.680 Forgive my ignorance.

00:26:40.660 Cyclopean like the Cyclops?

00:26:42.020 Like the Cyclops.

00:26:43.560 So, was it a race of Cyclops?

00:26:45.580 This is an archaeological term.

00:26:46.840 And interestingly enough, the Cyclopes were the offspring of the gods in Greek mythology.

00:26:54.260 They were demigods.

00:26:55.180 And so, the Greeks attributed the megalithic constructions that they saw strewn around the land, but in a state of ruination.

00:27:06.160 They attributed those constructions to the Cyclopes, to the offspring of the gods.

00:27:11.500 Because the Cyclops in Greek mythology was the master builder.

00:27:15.320 It was the Cyclops, for example, who forged the thunderbolts of Zeus.

00:27:19.760 I mean, these were the master builders.

00:27:22.460 And I don't, I think, you know, that's a myth.

00:27:24.820 I'm not saying that the walls were built by actual Cyclopes.

00:27:28.800 But I think it's...

00:27:29.860 You're just saying, you're using an archaeological term.

00:27:33.400 It's an archaeological term.

00:27:34.400 But you're using it in a literal way, and in a way that the ancients might have used it.

00:27:38.460 Exactly.

00:27:38.880 Okay.

00:27:39.580 Exactly.

00:27:40.120 So, the ancients that we think of as the ancients.

00:27:41.440 If you ask the ancients...

00:27:42.420 Okay.

00:27:43.000 I keep going back to Peru, because I lived there for 10 years, and I have so much experience there.

00:27:46.240 But if you ask a Quechua person, and the Quechuan people are the native people who live in the Andes.

00:27:55.020 If you ask a Quechua person, one who hasn't been modernized, one who still keeps the old ways and the old traditions,

00:28:01.420 who built these walls?

00:28:03.440 Yeah.

00:28:03.980 Sockside woman.

00:28:05.000 Who built those walls?

00:28:06.100 You know what they'll tell you?

00:28:07.260 An ancient race of giants who existed in the world before a flood.

00:28:11.460 That's what they'll tell you.

00:28:13.340 And you'll find the same answer all around the world when you talk to the people,

00:28:18.820 and when you inform yourselves of the traditions of the people who live there.

00:28:23.020 And that doesn't mean that all the traditions of these cultures are true.

00:28:28.500 No, there's a lot of mythology.

00:28:29.620 But mythology is designed to convey scientific information.

00:28:35.920 Yes.

00:28:36.180 It reminds me of one of my absolute favorite books by Owen Barfield, one of the Inklings.

00:28:41.020 Actually, the Inklings who probably was most responsible for converting C.S. Lewis to Christianity.

00:28:45.920 Owen Barfield, in poetic diction, says that we have this modern view that language goes from being prosaic and literal

00:28:54.340 to being figurative and poetic, that that's how we under...

00:28:59.460 But actually, it's the opposite, that early primordial language is poetic.

00:29:04.400 And the first example he uses is pneuma, you know, the spirit, or the breath, or...

00:29:10.580 And that actually all those meanings are just collapsed into this one word, pneuma.

00:29:15.560 And it has poetic meaning, it has spiritual reality, it has literal reality.

00:29:20.540 And as language develops and people become more self-conscious, I suppose,

00:29:25.300 the language loses its poetry and becomes more prosaic.

00:29:30.500 And he said, that's lost.

00:29:33.180 It's not that we're going to get back to that.

00:29:34.560 He said, but the echo of that, the last kind of hint, whisper that we have of it, are the myths.

00:29:40.480 That the myths are this kind of...

00:29:42.140 Which is not to say that one takes the myths literally.

00:29:44.520 It's just that that is the way to convey an early kind of melding of meaning and literal reality.

00:29:53.680 I agree with that, but I would say it's even more than that.

00:29:56.500 I would say that the myths were crafted by the adepts of the mystery schools.

00:30:02.000 And that these were very learned men.

00:30:03.980 And that they understood things about the universe and about the earth.

00:30:07.620 Things that we would equate to modern science.

00:30:10.200 And that they encrypted that knowledge in the myth.

00:30:14.540 So that the myth is like...

00:30:15.900 A myth is like...

00:30:17.000 Much like prophetic content from the Bible.

00:30:19.540 Yeah.

00:30:20.680 It's like an encrypted folder.

00:30:23.160 So if I'm going to send you a folder with information that I want to conceal,

00:30:28.220 that requires decryption for you to view, I'm going to send you a zipped folder.

00:30:32.120 Yeah.

00:30:32.720 And you're going to take that zipped folder onto your computer.

00:30:36.240 And you have to decrypt that folder.

00:30:38.440 You have to unzip it in order to extract the contents.

00:30:41.480 So a myth is like the folder.

00:30:44.540 A myth is that folder with its title.

00:30:47.140 And you kind of have an idea of what it's about.

00:30:49.840 And for the lay people, for who the mystery school adepts would describe as the profane.

00:30:55.900 Yeah, yeah.

00:30:56.440 Who the occult would describe as the profane.

00:30:58.540 The hoi polloi.

00:30:59.320 Yeah.

00:31:00.040 They're not the initiated.

00:31:01.360 Like, you know, they're initiated.

00:31:02.780 We're profane.

00:31:03.600 That's how they would see us.

00:31:04.560 Because we think of these stories, these myths and legends in a different way than they think of them.

00:31:11.080 They know how to decrypt the myths and extract the knowledge.

00:31:15.300 Well, this would be a divergence probably between your view and the Inklings.

00:31:19.080 Yeah.

00:31:19.300 I think especially of Tolkien, author of Lord of the Rings, who said, you know, he didn't really like allegory.

00:31:27.560 There's a difference between allegory.

00:31:28.720 He hated allegory.

00:31:29.540 Yeah.

00:31:29.660 Because allegory is like Pilgrim's Progress, you know, just big walking symbols.

00:31:33.320 Like the Chronicles of Narnia.

00:31:34.520 The Chronicles, right, yeah.

00:31:35.580 You know, Lewis is probably less talented at his fiction than Tolkien was.

00:31:40.720 Tolkien created myth, though.

00:31:42.180 And so, I guess, not to speak for Tolkien, one of the great writers of the 20th century,

00:31:46.580 but the Tolkien view of myth, and maybe the Inkling view of myth, is that it's not that it's hidden knowledge exactly.

00:31:53.740 It's just, it is conveying in the best possible way knowledge that is not really susceptible to prosaic literal speech.

00:32:01.740 Whereas, there are also other schools I'm thinking of in the 20th century, a writer like Leo Strauss,

00:32:07.080 or other people who write in an esoteric or even Gnostic tradition, who say, no, no, this is really about, this is about encryption.

00:32:14.080 This is persecution in the art of writing.

00:32:16.040 At all times, the philosophers, the sages, are under attack by the unwashed and the tyrants and the barbarians.

00:32:22.400 And so, we need to keep secret from these unwashed masses, these ancient truths that will pass on down the general.

00:32:30.400 That's your view.

00:32:31.400 I believe that's absolutely true.

00:32:33.560 It's not just my view.

00:32:35.440 One Isaac Newton also believed that.

00:32:37.900 Newton was, because we think of Newton as a natural scientist.

00:32:41.700 But he spent a lot of time, especially in the later part of his career, in alchemy.

00:32:46.680 He was an alchemist.

00:32:47.140 And in exegesis.

00:32:48.520 A successful alchemist, by the way.

00:32:49.400 I knew he was into alchemy.

00:32:52.720 I didn't know he was successful.

00:32:53.760 Well, and I don't want to, I don't know all the details.

00:32:57.480 And every time I try and recount this, I get the details wrong.

00:32:59.780 But let's just say, generally speaking, he was into alchemy.

00:33:03.180 And he believed, as did some of his predecessors, that the myths encapsulated real scientific information,

00:33:11.560 alchemy recipes, from which you could extract different kinds of elements.

00:33:15.800 And he performed some of these, he read the recipe, so to speak, from the myths, a couple

00:33:24.060 of these myths.

00:33:24.800 And he was successful in extracting the element that was theorized that you would get if you

00:33:30.560 did that with the myth, if you read the recipe correct.

00:33:33.280 But myths also encapsulate, more than anything else, astronomical information.

00:33:37.980 And that, there's no question about that.

00:33:39.740 I mean, you know, you look at the ancient world, and you see, for example, you look at

00:33:45.800 ancient Egypt, and you see all kinds of composite beings, like the Sphinx.

00:33:50.380 Right.

00:33:50.640 The Sphinx is a great example.

00:33:53.000 And you have the Sphinx, which I believe originally, the Sphinx was the head of a woman in the body

00:33:58.660 of a lion.

00:33:59.560 Yeah.

00:34:00.260 And I have to give credit to the late David Flynn for much of this.

00:34:03.040 I read a book, the most consequential book I've ever read in my life.

00:34:05.380 It's called Cydonia, The Secret Chronicles of Mars, but the late David Flynn, he passed

00:34:09.320 away in 2012.

00:34:11.060 But the Sphinx is actually that composite being, the head of the woman in the body of

00:34:16.180 the lion.

00:34:17.220 Today, it's the head of a man, but it's not proportional.

00:34:21.080 The head is small.

00:34:21.940 It appears to have been recarved.

00:34:24.680 I think originally, it was the head of a woman, because I believe what the Sphinx is

00:34:27.920 marking is the exact period in time when the cataclysm of the flood occurred.

00:34:37.600 And that happened between the transition of, and we're talking about the Zodiac here, because

00:34:41.460 this is how the ancients calculated time.

00:34:43.480 It was the great mill in the sky.

00:34:44.800 It was the celestial timepiece.

00:34:46.340 Yeah.

00:34:46.720 Zodiac.

00:34:47.360 Ubiquitous in many different cultures around the world.

00:34:50.200 Same figures.

00:34:50.840 And that transition from the age of, it was the transition from the age of Virgo to the

00:34:57.680 age of Leo, when the cataclysm, and I'm talking about the cataclysm as described in the Bible,

00:35:02.920 occurred.

00:35:03.880 It ensued during that transitional period between Virgo and Leo.

00:35:08.000 And what is the zodiacal sign for Virgo?

00:35:11.200 The glyph is a woman.

00:35:13.380 And what's the glyph for Leo?

00:35:14.900 A lion.

00:35:15.660 So you have the head of a woman and the body of a lion.

00:35:18.860 It's a time marker.

00:35:20.400 Right.

00:35:20.840 So I believe that, and there's other astronomical phenomena that solidifies this idea that the

00:35:25.800 Sphinx is a time marker.

00:35:27.500 But it's marking the age in which it was built, but it's also marking the occurrence of the

00:35:38.080 cataclysm.

00:35:38.660 So when would that have been?

00:35:39.580 Is that at the historically, academically accepted time, or is that some earlier time?

00:35:45.020 When do you pay?

00:35:45.720 It would be at a, it is a historical time that academics do acknowledge, are increasingly,

00:35:50.520 acknowledging that was a time of potential cataclysm on earth.

00:35:54.480 They call that the, the, the younger dry ass period, the end of the last ice age.

00:35:58.540 It's not, it's not a timeframe that most Christians are accustomed to thinking about in regard to the

00:36:04.320 flood because it's somewhere around 10,500 BC.

00:36:07.780 Somewhere in the neighborhood.

00:36:10.240 And so you're saying Christians who take a young earth creation view don't like that?

00:36:14.740 Okay.

00:36:15.060 I'm, I'm not, I'm not a young earth creationist.

00:36:17.460 Yeah.

00:36:17.740 I'm a Catholic.

00:36:18.560 We don't, we're not too hardcore about any of those particular things, you know?

00:36:23.020 I, I, I believe that the great flood of biblical fame happens sometime in the neighborhood.

00:36:29.360 When I say in the neighborhood, give or take a thousand years, sometime in the neighborhood

00:36:32.540 of 10,000 BC.

00:36:33.920 Yeah.

00:36:34.240 It's funny because I, I do know some of our Protestant friends and viewers are very particular

00:36:39.100 about the earth is exactly this old.

00:36:41.400 And, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm open to the possibility, but also the, the tradition going, going back

00:36:47.540 to the ancients, our ancients, not the super ancients who were earlier, uh, doesn't insist

00:36:52.960 upon a literal historical reading of Genesis.

00:36:56.660 Certainly not.

00:36:57.880 And what's interesting is I, we talked in the beginning about how I, all of this conversation

00:37:01.980 for me is framed within the biblical narrative, not because it has to be, but because it simply

00:37:05.820 is.

00:37:07.220 Um, you don't have to read this into the narrative.

00:37:09.220 Uh, it is already incorporated into the narrative.

00:37:11.680 What do I mean by that?

00:37:12.440 Well, this period of time, the antediluvian world was considered again, almost universally

00:37:18.560 by the primary ancient cultures around the world as the golden age.

00:37:23.760 Of course, this is a term that comes from the Greeks and they all have their own terms

00:37:26.620 for it.

00:37:27.540 For example, the ancient Egyptians referred to it as Zeptepe, the first time.

00:37:31.300 It's the same thing.

00:37:32.240 It's the same idea.

00:37:32.880 So what is the golden age?

00:37:33.900 What is the first time?

00:37:34.860 This is the time when the gods descended from heaven and, and co-inhabited the earth with

00:37:43.900 mankind and furthermore copulated with human women and progenerated hybrid offspring.

00:37:52.600 So I'm thinking now, we were just talking about the book of Genesis, of Genesis six, a confusing

00:37:58.560 passage where the church fathers are somewhat divided on it.

00:38:03.300 You know, one explanation of, uh, Genesis six, the sons of God looked on the daughters

00:38:08.800 of men and found them to be beautiful and were, you know, went and did the thing that men and

00:38:13.000 women do, uh, that one reading of that is it's demons or something.

00:38:17.900 Angels or demons.

00:38:18.840 Yeah.

00:38:19.120 Uh, mating with human beings.

00:38:20.260 One issue with that, of course, is that to make a human being in the ordinary course of

00:38:24.040 things, you need two people that have bodies, not a, not an incorporeal being and a corporeal

00:38:29.940 being.

00:38:30.760 Uh, however, this is, I think Justin Marder in the, in the second apology says that it's

00:38:35.500 angels and humans.

00:38:36.860 That's right.

00:38:37.340 Uh, though there is some.

00:38:38.440 Tertullian.

00:38:39.160 Tertullian.

00:38:39.680 Yeah.

00:38:39.860 Yeah.

00:38:40.080 And I'm really a number of, of church fathers.

00:38:42.160 Yes.

00:38:42.300 Early Christian.

00:38:42.720 Origin.

00:38:43.580 Yep.

00:38:44.220 Now, but there is some disagreement.

00:38:45.500 One view is the Sethite view that the sons of God refer to the descendants of Seth and

00:38:51.640 the daughters of man refer to the descendants of Cain.

00:38:54.340 And then if you were to take an even more metaphorical and symbolic view, it's this notion

00:38:58.480 that virtuous men are seduced by not so virtuous women, which is an anthropological fact of

00:39:04.700 history.

00:39:05.680 But your view is.

00:39:06.580 Oh, you've covered the bases there.

00:39:08.340 So I would say the biblical view and the only one that makes logical sense is that the sons

00:39:15.460 of God in Genesis six are an angelic faction.

00:39:20.320 These are angels.

00:39:21.080 These are not men.

00:39:23.200 The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were comely and they decided to take wives

00:39:28.140 from among the daughters of men and they copulated with them.

00:39:31.220 And, and the production of their union was giants, the Nephilim.

00:39:36.380 See that, that story that's found in Genesis six, the writer of Genesis, when he's writing about

00:39:42.940 the sons of God and this, this affair.

00:39:45.100 And it's, it's just a little snippet.

00:39:46.500 Yeah.

00:39:46.780 He does not elaborate.

00:39:49.060 He doesn't enlarge on this, this strange digression in the Genesis narrative.

00:39:54.240 It's just, he just mentions this bizarre thing.

00:39:58.460 You know, I've, I've started to read the Bible since I was a kid.

00:40:01.740 I got to want to read the whole Bible.

00:40:02.760 And, but I, I wouldn't finish it often.

00:40:05.260 So I would start it again eventually.

00:40:06.940 I'd say, okay, I'm going to start it again.

00:40:07.940 So I've read the book of Genesis like a billion times or something.

00:40:12.380 And you know, every time you get to that and you say, wait, what?

00:40:14.940 Hold on.

00:40:15.380 Exactly.

00:40:15.660 Just what was that part about?

00:40:17.180 Hold on.

00:40:18.040 That's right.

00:40:18.720 Back up.

00:40:19.940 We need an elaboration on that.

00:40:21.880 Well, the thing is that the, that I'm totally persuaded that the, the writer of Genesis,

00:40:27.000 as he's writing about the sons of God, this bizarre affair, he's not elaborating on it

00:40:33.820 because the story is already well known.

00:40:37.660 He's just assuming that he's assuming that the audience already knows what he's talking

00:40:41.960 about because this was one of the most monumental events that's ever happened.

00:40:45.480 Even you see this in the new Testament when a specific people who were either alive at

00:40:51.540 the time of the writing or who had been alive within living memory, they'll say, yeah,

00:40:56.460 you know, so-and-so, the daughter of so-and-so or the son of so-and-so.

00:40:59.960 Yeah.

00:41:00.120 He saw this happen.

00:41:01.140 And here's just a little bit, you know, anyway, we all know, right?

00:41:03.300 We all know Johnny, right?

00:41:05.440 Okay.

00:41:05.860 So you're saying that this is happening in the book of Genesis.

00:41:08.800 Like, yeah, of course we all know.

00:41:09.640 The writer of Genesis is assuming that the, that his audience is conversant with the larger

00:41:14.580 narrative that, that expands on that, on, on the mention of the sons of God and on

00:41:21.540 the writer of Genesis, um, allusion to that story.

00:41:26.040 The audience already knew the, the whole story.

00:41:29.220 So he didn't have to repeat it.

00:41:30.540 There was no need to go back into all the details.

00:41:33.160 Now, two questions then.

00:41:34.240 One, how does, at least the traditional Christian understanding of what an angel is, which I'm

00:41:39.360 persuaded by, is that an angel is incorporeal.

00:41:42.400 And one can go further, you know, St. Thomas Aquinas describes angels as, as being in a

00:41:47.900 way unique species that are, uh, we have choirs of angels, we have a hierarchy of angels,

00:41:53.580 but, uh, they don't, they don't communicate by speaking, for instance, because they don't

00:41:57.980 have vocal cords and mouths.

00:41:59.620 They're now angels do interact with human beings in mystical and interesting ways, but

00:42:04.400 angels in themselves don't have bodies.

00:42:07.020 Human beings do have bodies and rational souls.

00:42:09.740 We have intellect and we have flesh and we have will.

00:42:12.400 And then there are the lower animals who have bodies and they have instinct and they

00:42:17.800 have appetite, but they don't have intellect and will.

00:42:19.900 So we're kind of this, this middle ground.

00:42:22.320 We've got, we've got the reason, the intellect and the will, albeit greatly degraded of an

00:42:27.420 angel, but we got the body of an animal and we're kind of this meeting point.

00:42:31.760 So how does an incorporeal being create a child with a corporeal being, or do you have a different

00:42:37.780 view of angels?

00:42:38.540 I think we need to back up a little bit because we have to deal with what I call the

00:42:42.380 first cause.

00:42:43.680 So let's assume for a moment that Genesis six is angels and they're looking down at the

00:42:49.860 daughters of men and they're lusting after them.

00:42:52.840 Yeah.

00:42:53.100 They're desiring to take them as wives and to copulate with them, to have intercourse

00:42:57.080 with them.

00:42:57.520 Yeah.

00:42:58.400 So what's the first cause here?

00:43:00.820 Lust.

00:43:01.520 Yeah.

00:43:01.700 In fact, when I was talking about the elaboration of that story, why the writer of Genesis didn't

00:43:06.080 bother to elaborate on it, it's because it was well known to the ancient Hebrews in the

00:43:11.140 book of Enoch, which was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls.

00:43:15.160 The book of Enoch is actually quoted verbatim in the New Testament in the book of Jude, verbatim.

00:43:20.300 Right.

00:43:20.480 So it's considered an apocryphal book or non-canonical book.

00:43:24.160 It's not included in any canon of the Bible that we're familiar with.

00:43:27.860 Certainly not in the history of the church, making, you know, ecumenical council, formal

00:43:31.380 decrees, but it has been around.

00:43:34.780 Except for in Ethiopia.

00:43:36.200 Ethiopia.

00:43:36.980 Ethiopia, both the, both the, um, the better Israel Jews, the ancient Jewish community

00:43:42.760 and the Tallahado Orthodox Christians long ago incorporated and preserved the book of

00:43:49.120 Enoch in their canon.

00:43:50.580 And as you say, there, there are references, it would seem in the New Testament.

00:43:56.560 So.

00:43:57.260 Many.

00:43:57.860 What is, I didn't know.

00:43:59.560 There are allusions.

00:44:00.660 There are many allusions to the book of Enoch.

00:44:03.160 For example, when Jesus says in my house, in my father's house are many mansions.

00:44:07.460 Well, where's that come from?

00:44:09.480 The book of Enoch.

00:44:10.140 The book of Enoch.

00:44:10.940 I've never read the book of Enoch.

00:44:12.100 There are many, many allusions, but then, as I said, in Jude, it's verbatim.

00:44:16.080 And Jude says that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, and then copy,

00:44:21.960 paste, copy from first Enoch, paste into the, into his epistle.

00:44:26.320 So, they were conversant.

00:44:28.400 The early church, the church fathers, the disciples of Christ, Christ himself, and all

00:44:34.280 of the writers of the Bible, all of them were conversant with the book of Enoch.

00:44:38.020 There's no question.

00:44:38.780 In fact, I believe that if you were living in first century Jerusalem, before it was destroyed

00:44:48.140 by the Romans, and if you were to walk into the temple during the time of Christ, into

00:44:53.120 the synagogue, I think you would find in the scriptorium, where all of the sacred scrolls

00:44:58.320 are held, are kept, you would find a manuscript that was reflective, representative of what today

00:45:04.180 we call first Enoch, Ethiopic Enoch.

00:45:06.480 I would even say, as someone who is totally innocent of the book of Enoch, I've never read

00:45:12.220 it, I have no strong opinions of whether it was some huge mistake not to include it in

00:45:16.080 the canon.

00:45:16.960 I don't think there are mistakes in the canon.

00:45:18.700 And I'm not arguing that it was, by the way.

00:45:19.980 Exactly.

00:45:20.400 My view is, I think that the proto-Evangelium of James, for instance, is an edifying work

00:45:26.920 to read and can inform us.

00:45:28.600 It's useful.

00:45:29.840 Maybe it's not canon, but it's useful.

00:45:32.460 And so that seems to be kind of the view that you're taking.

00:45:34.780 Well, I will say this, and that is my view, but I will say this, I'll add, that in the

00:45:39.400 book of Enoch, see, the book of Enoch, first Enoch, is very complex.

00:45:42.420 And we're going to get back to what I called the first cause in a minute with Enoch.

00:45:45.440 But the book of Enoch is very complex.

00:45:48.100 First Enoch, there are three different books of Enoch.

00:45:50.920 Only one of them, portions of it, were written before Christ.

00:45:54.420 That's the one I'm interested in, first Enoch.

00:45:56.280 There's second Enoch, which is called the Slavonic Enoch.

00:45:58.180 And third Enoch, which is called the Hebrew Enoch.

00:46:01.200 First Enoch is known as the Ethiopian Enoch, because the Ethiopians preserved it.

00:46:04.880 First Enoch, the oldest portions of first Enoch, namely the book of the Watchers and the book

00:46:09.260 of parables, were most certainly written before Christ.

00:46:13.000 Why is this important?

00:46:13.840 Because some of the most extraordinary, astounding, Christological prophecies, prophecies pertaining

00:46:23.500 to the Son of Man, which is the title that Jesus used most often when speaking of himself,

00:46:29.720 are in the parables in first Enoch.

00:46:33.040 I mean, absolutely stunningly accurate prophecies pertaining to Jesus of Nazareth, written before

00:46:39.980 Christ.

00:46:40.440 Is there any dispute over the dating of the first book of Enoch?

00:46:44.440 Most scholars will date, in fact, almost universally, scholars date the earliest portions of Enoch

00:46:51.740 to sometime around 300 BC.

00:46:54.580 Now, it's a complicated document because it's a compilation of text written by various authors.

00:47:01.880 I'm most interested in the first two sections of first Enoch, which are the book of the Watchers

00:47:08.540 and the parables, precisely because they're dated to before the birth of Christ.

00:47:15.700 And my whole point in bringing up Enoch was you have that snippet in Genesis.

00:47:19.760 Well, that story is elaborated in the book of Enoch.

00:47:25.460 In fact, that's where the story comes from, is the book of Enoch.

00:47:28.140 That little reference in Genesis, if you want to know the full story of what the author is

00:47:33.380 alluding to, you read first Enoch, specifically the book of the Watchers, the first section.

00:47:37.900 And it tells you this extraordinary narrative.

00:47:40.380 I mean, it's what I call the Enochian tale about the sons of God, which are designated as

00:47:46.400 Watchers in first Enoch, that they're looking down, they're seeing the daughters of men.

00:47:51.620 And it's basically almost copy-paste into Genesis, the Genesis 6 reference.

00:47:55.700 And intriguingly enough, in R.H.

00:47:58.320 Charles' translation, it's the same verses, Genesis 6, 1 through whatever it is, 4, I think,

00:48:04.640 that the sons of God.

00:48:05.880 But in the book of Enoch, it's the angels.

00:48:08.460 And by the way, that's the way the Septuagint renders it as well, Genesis 6.

00:48:12.080 The angels are looking down at the daughters of men, that they're fair, that they're beautiful,

00:48:18.540 and they lust.

00:48:20.300 Okay, so that's why I told you to back up.

00:48:24.300 I call that the first cause of the angel's sin in this particular case, the Watchers' Rebellion.

00:48:29.640 The first cause is lust.

00:48:33.480 How do you explain lust for spiritual beings who don't have bodies?

00:48:40.140 How do you explain incorporeal beings having sexual impulses?

00:48:45.540 When you, that is a very good question, but just before we get to it, you wouldn't say

00:48:51.460 this is the first sin that the angels committed because the rebellion of the angels, the rebellion

00:48:57.280 of Satan would have had to predate.

00:48:59.560 No, in this particular incident, this was the catalyst for what they were about to do.

00:49:03.700 Yeah, so how does an incorporeal being, you know, become tumescent, to use a diplomatic word,

00:49:08.480 for fair-looking ladies on the ground?

00:49:10.640 That's right, and not only do these angels, according to 1 Enoch, again, which is the

00:49:16.380 elaboration of the Genesis 6 reference, not only do they lust after these women, they

00:49:22.420 are determined to take them as their wives and procreate offspring with them.

00:49:28.120 So they lust, that's the first cause.

00:49:32.300 Then they descend to the earth, according to 1 Enoch, 200 Watchers descend to the earth

00:49:36.600 on the summit of Mount Hermon.

00:49:38.480 And Mount Hermon's very interesting in the Bible.

00:49:41.080 They descend to the summit of Mount Hermon.

00:49:43.320 They bind themselves by an oath of mutual imprecations.

00:49:47.140 In other words, all for one, one for all.

00:49:49.380 We're all in this together.

00:49:50.300 They knew it was a great sin, but they were going to accept the consequences together,

00:49:55.480 whatever befall.

00:49:57.860 And then they, that's why the, by the way, the Mount Hermon has been known since time

00:50:01.900 immemorial as the mountain of oath.

00:50:03.900 And then they descended into the plains and they chose each one, one woman, one maiden that

00:50:11.420 they desired to wed, that who they ultimately took to wife.

00:50:15.420 They copulated with these women.

00:50:17.420 These women conceived and gave birth to giants, demigods, the offspring of God and man.

00:50:24.640 Okay.

00:50:24.800 Anyway, this is the Hebraic cosmological paradigm of the antediluvian world.

00:50:31.440 This is the Hebraic paradigm of the golden age of Zeptepe.

00:50:35.520 Yeah.

00:50:35.700 Because, because the, the ancient Mesopotamians and the, the ancient Egyptians and the Greeks

00:50:41.600 and the Romans and all the rest of them, they believe that the very same thing occurred.

00:50:45.640 The age of the heroes.

00:50:46.940 Descended to the earth.

00:50:47.920 Yeah, yeah.

00:50:48.260 That they, that they copulated with human women.

00:50:50.240 I mean, look, look at Atlantis, the story of Atlantis.

00:50:52.240 Everybody knows about the city of Atlantis and the, and the legend of Atlantis, but very

00:50:56.680 few people pay attention to what Plato writes in the Timaeus and Critias dialogue where he

00:51:00.320 talks about Atlantis.

00:51:01.140 He has, he has Solon of Athens traveling to Egypt and he's being informed by the priests

00:51:06.220 of Saes about the extraordinary past of the Athenians that he's unaware of.

00:51:11.500 And part of this past involves this conflict that they had, this epic conflict with Atlantis

00:51:16.140 and the Atlanteans.

00:51:17.500 And, and they tell him the whole story, right?

00:51:19.660 And everybody's familiar with Atlantis, that Atlantis was this advanced ancient city.

00:51:24.360 It's a great resort in the Caribbean.

00:51:25.740 Right.

00:51:26.120 That as well.

00:51:26.920 Yes.

00:51:27.260 It still exists today.

00:51:28.860 In a slightly degraded form.

00:51:31.220 Perfectly pleasant.

00:51:32.600 It does.

00:51:33.880 So that Atlantis was this, this advanced civilization that was destroyed in a day and a night in

00:51:38.720 cataclysm, right?

00:51:40.220 But Plato has the priests of Saes telling Solon in the dialogue, the full story.

00:51:46.340 Yeah.

00:51:46.540 And what's the beginning of the story of Atlantis?

00:51:48.420 The beginning of the story of Atlantis is that the gods who descended to the earth are

00:51:54.020 apportioning the earth amongst themselves.

00:51:57.080 They're creating an empire.

00:51:58.780 Yeah.

00:51:59.240 And they're dividing up their kingdoms.

00:52:01.240 And Poseidon for his lot, he got the area of Atlantis, the region that would become Atlantis.

00:52:06.260 So what does he do?

00:52:07.340 He builds Atlantis.

00:52:08.420 He raises up an island out of the sea, which is ultimately going to be the home of this city,

00:52:12.680 Atlantis.

00:52:13.000 But what does he do after this or during this?

00:52:16.240 He becomes enamored of a human woman named Clato.

00:52:21.340 And he takes her as his wife and he copulates with her.

00:52:25.380 And she gives birth to five sets of twin sons who will become the 10 kings of Atlantis.

00:52:32.160 And these are giants.

00:52:34.980 Atlas, for example, he's the chief among them.

00:52:37.840 That's the backstory.

00:52:38.660 So what do we see here?

00:52:40.760 Well, this is a one-to-one match with the book of Enoch in Genesis 6.

00:52:44.680 Is it not?

00:52:45.360 It's the gods descending to the earth, taking human women as their wives, having intercourse

00:52:51.080 with them, and progenerating a race of demigod giants.

00:52:54.640 This is everywhere.

00:52:56.080 It's everywhere.

00:52:56.480 Just like the megaliths that we were talking about.

00:52:57.960 This is called the golden age.

00:52:59.480 And I believe that it's literally true, that that literally happened in the time before

00:53:05.960 the great flood.

00:53:06.760 And I believe in the ubiquitous testimony of our ancient ancestors.

00:53:11.400 And in fact, the Egyptians informed Solon, it was in the midst of the conflict between,

00:53:16.720 because this Atlantean empire became expansionary.

00:53:19.860 They became aggressive and they were going on conquest and they were steamrolling everybody

00:53:23.800 that they encountered until they encountered the Athenians, who were the only faction that

00:53:28.320 was able to resist them.

00:53:29.420 And they're locked into this epic war, the Atlanteans versus the Athenians, and then cataclysm.

00:53:37.680 Cataclysm destroys Atlantis and everyone else, not just Atlantis.

00:53:44.220 It's a global cataclysm.

00:53:46.000 And the Egyptians kept record of this.

00:53:48.040 And they told Solon that that wasn't the only cataclysm.

00:53:50.280 There have been many cataclysms because they believed it was cyclic, that the cataclysm

00:53:55.880 is cyclic, that there's this celestial timepiece, the zodiac, that the primary function of which

00:54:03.200 is to keep track of when the cataclysm is going to occur again.

00:54:09.320 So this is how the ancients viewed.

00:54:11.580 So if you were to, and I'm not saying, by the way, that that means that the pyramids were

00:54:17.160 built by giants or anything like that.

00:54:20.100 I don't want people to think that.

00:54:21.060 I don't know who built the great pyramids.

00:54:22.600 But I do believe that many of these extraordinary megalithic sites around the world, like Baalbek,

00:54:29.540 were built in the age before the flood.

00:54:32.980 And it had something to do with the knowledge of the gods who descended to the earth.

00:54:37.660 That's what the ancients say.

00:54:39.260 That's what they all say.

00:54:40.500 All I will contribute to that narrative is one of my most intelligent friends, very well

00:54:47.280 grounded, extraordinarily educated, very, very high IQ, very serious person, has told

00:54:54.020 me for years now, he says, yeah, you know, when I think of these ancient structures, and

00:54:58.960 there are all these debates over how they were built, and, you know, I basically think it's

00:55:04.460 largely demons.

00:55:06.120 And he'll say it with a totally straight face.

00:55:07.900 He means it.

00:55:08.360 He's not joking around.

00:55:09.200 And that kind of sounds like what you're saying.

00:55:11.300 Well, I'm going to qualm with the term demons a little bit here.

00:55:14.020 So, we have a very Western perspective of angels and demons.

00:55:18.540 We have a demonology that comes from Western tradition that is not necessarily concordant

00:55:24.620 with ancient Hebraic cosmology.

00:55:28.200 Because if you were to ask an ancient Hebrew, or the writers of the Old Testament, what a

00:55:31.520 demon was, they would have a very different answer than us.

00:55:33.480 Well, if you asked an ancient Greek, what a, you know, daimon.

00:55:36.520 That's right.

00:55:36.900 Like, even the phrase for happiness, right?

00:55:38.940 That's a very good point.

00:55:39.000 That's a very good point.

00:55:39.600 Eudaimonia.

00:55:39.920 Yeah.

00:55:40.100 It's kind of like spirit.

00:55:41.320 That's a very good point.

00:55:42.320 Because the Greeks believed specifically that the daimon was a spirit, a disembodied spirit

00:55:49.160 of a being who had lived in the world before the flood.

00:55:53.820 That's what a daimon was.

00:55:55.000 That they died in the Golden Age, and that their spirits persisted in the earth after the flood

00:56:00.220 in the form of daimons.

00:56:01.180 Well, guess what?

00:56:02.580 That's the Hebraic view.

00:56:04.040 That's the view of the, that's concordant with ancient Hebrew cosmology.

00:56:09.380 So, in the cosmology of the Jews, the demons are a very specific thing.

00:56:16.360 So, let's address first how we view demons in Western civilization.

00:56:20.340 And this is, I would say, primarily the product of medieval Christianity.

00:56:24.540 I'd love to, by the way, before you get into this explanation, I love this point you're

00:56:29.240 making, which is more ambitious and audacious probably than many viewers are even noticing.

00:56:35.820 Because there's this idea that we all just accept, as a matter of course, that our civilization

00:56:41.840 comes from the melding of Greece and Jerusalem.

00:56:47.720 And so, there are these totally different ways of viewing the world with these totally

00:56:51.460 different perspectives, but really, I think it's overly simplistic to suggest that the

00:56:57.780 Greeks had no sense of the Hebraic view, and that the Hebrews had no sense of the Greek

00:57:04.840 view.

00:57:05.520 And, you know, come on, guys.

00:57:06.600 It's pretty close together.

00:57:07.400 Great point.

00:57:07.680 You see harmonies and echoes.

00:57:10.900 And that's what you're saying.

00:57:12.000 No, actually, there's a kind of unified cosmology.

00:57:13.840 They're all inheriting the same tradition.

00:57:17.320 Now, that tradition is becoming variegated.

00:57:19.180 It's taking on the idiosyncrasies of these particular cultures as they develop.

00:57:24.960 But there's a source.

00:57:26.600 The answer is it's because there's a source of a narrative.

00:57:30.180 There's a source to the narrative of the flood.

00:57:33.620 There's one particular source.

00:57:35.320 And I would say that source is Noah and his sons.

00:57:38.400 And then that story gets taken by the ancient Mesopotamians, the ancient Sumerians, who I

00:57:43.860 think are the civilization that grew out, ultimately, of Noah and his sons.

00:57:48.800 And then it's changed.

00:57:49.900 The names are changed.

00:57:51.180 People speak different languages.

00:57:52.580 The details get jumbled.

00:57:53.700 And you get these stories that have similar elements, right?

00:57:56.860 They have these foundational elements, the flood myths.

00:58:00.020 But then they have their idiosyncrasies as well.

00:58:02.820 And that's precisely because all of these stories are founded in the same original narrative.

00:58:13.820 The true story.

00:58:15.640 Right.

00:58:15.920 What have we gotten wrong about demons?

00:58:17.920 Okay.

00:58:18.180 So going back to that.

00:58:18.960 So the Western perspective of demons is basically we will view demon as anything that is, well,

00:58:26.380 demonic, anything that is scary or grotesque, we would call a demon.

00:58:35.100 Or even basically like an angel that rebels, a bad angel.

00:58:38.100 Or an angel that rebels.

00:58:39.280 We lump all of that together in this term demon.

00:58:42.200 So in the Western mind, a demon is like, it's like a boogeyman, basically.

00:58:46.980 It's like anything that's evil and malevolent, supernaturalism, that's all demon.

00:58:52.620 That's a demon.

00:58:53.520 But in the ancient Hebrew cosmology, they were much more narrow in their defining of the word demon.

00:59:02.220 To them, a demon was something very, very specific.

00:59:06.360 A demon was the disembodied spirit of a giant.

00:59:11.940 A giant that died in the antediluvian world before the flood.

00:59:15.180 Their spirit, this is in the book of Enoch, by the way.

00:59:18.820 It derives from the book of Enoch.

00:59:21.440 That their spirit, this is judgment.

00:59:23.660 God judges them that because they're neither holy of their fathers, their angelic fathers, or of their human mothers,

00:59:29.140 that they're going to be cursed when they die to wander the earth as bodiless vagabonds, as disembodied vagabonds.

00:59:37.080 They're going to be hungry, they're going to be thirsty, presumably they're going to have all the desires of the flesh,

00:59:42.280 but no bodies through which to fulfill those desires, to satiate those desires.

00:59:46.860 That was a curse that was placed on them by God, according to the book of Enoch, according to ancient Hebrew cosmology.

00:59:52.600 This and only this is the origin of a demon and is what a demon is.

00:59:58.460 What about when Lucifer rebels, Satan falls like lightning and leads all the bad angels who rebelled against God,

01:00:07.040 and there's a great battle and they lose, spoiler alert, and St. Michael, the archangel, wins.

01:00:13.860 God wins, he always wins.

01:00:15.100 And what about them?

01:00:17.800 That's before the giants.

01:00:19.180 Well, those are the insubordinate sons of God.

01:00:21.940 These are the defected sons of God, right?

01:00:25.460 These were the angelic beings who were loyal to the king at one time, but who rebelled and became disloyal and were expelled.

01:00:33.920 And that's what they are, but they're not...

01:00:37.960 You're saying that's distinct from...

01:00:39.140 They're not technically demons.

01:00:40.060 So the demon is, again, specifically according to Hebrew cosmology, a demon is specifically the disembodied spirit of Nephilim.

01:00:46.900 Now, when God, in the book of Enoch, again, this is a judgment on the giants, on the offspring of the watchers.

01:00:53.260 They're sentenced to this terrible curse.

01:00:56.180 You know, it's very much like the plot line of the Pirates of the Caribbean, the first one, right?

01:01:00.320 You had Barbossa and his crew.

01:01:01.860 They had the Mayan gold, the cursed Mayan gold, and they had this curse where they were living forever.

01:01:06.980 They were like eternal, but they couldn't satisfy any of the desires of their flesh.

01:01:12.500 And this is represented...

01:01:13.700 This is illustrated with Barbossa, who wants to bite the apple.

01:01:16.140 Yeah, yeah.

01:01:17.280 But he can't...

01:01:18.320 When he bites it, you know, the moon comes out or something, and you see that he's just a skeleton, and there's nowhere for the food to go.

01:01:24.060 He has no tongue.

01:01:24.720 He has no stomach.

01:01:25.560 And all he wants is to be able to satisfy his hunger, to be able to bite that apple.

01:01:31.760 Well, that perfectly illustrates the nature of a demon, according to ancient Hebrew cosmology.

01:01:39.380 So, you have the disembodied spirits of the giants that are going to persist in the world as vagabond wraiths.

01:01:45.340 That's their curse, much like Barbossa and his crew's curse.

01:01:49.240 They're going to wander the earth, hungry, thirsty, presumably all of the desires of the flesh, but with no flesh through which to fulfill those desires, to satiate those desires.

01:01:58.300 That's a very torturous existence.

01:02:00.080 So, fast forward to the New Testament, I should say, before I go there, and a part of this curse, God tells them that they'll be in this condition until the end of the age, when the age is wholly consummated and the great judge appears.

01:02:15.440 And at that time, they will be judged with finality, right?

01:02:18.500 But until that time, they're going to be cursed to wander the earth in this miserable state.

01:02:22.760 So, fast forward to the New Testament.

01:02:25.520 Jesus is walking in Galilee.

01:02:28.160 Jesus is walking all over Judea.

01:02:30.560 And what is he encountering?

01:02:33.120 He's encountering these things called unclean spirits.

01:02:37.940 And going back to the Enochian reference, part of the judgment was God says, evil spirits or unclean spirits you shall be called.

01:02:46.920 Fast forward to the New Testament.

01:02:48.040 Jesus is encountering unclean spirits.

01:02:51.160 And what are these spirits doing?

01:02:52.680 They're inhabiting the bodies of human beings.

01:02:55.640 And when they get inside the body of a human being, it manifests something like epilepsy.

01:03:01.040 The person is rolling around, foaming from the mouth, throwing themselves into the fire, screaming at the top of their lungs.

01:03:08.720 And Jesus would cast these demons out.

01:03:10.580 And they were called unclean spirits.

01:03:12.800 And there's a particular occasion when Jesus is walking on the shores of Gadara.

01:03:18.120 And this is the Gadarene demoniac encounter where the Gadarene demoniac comes running up to Jesus.

01:03:23.420 And he's full of a legion of demons.

01:03:25.740 I mean, he's full of all kinds of demons, right?

01:03:28.160 Yet his pronouns were the plural pronouns.

01:03:31.500 It was they, them.

01:03:32.740 Modern analogy.

01:03:33.360 Yeah, exactly.

01:03:34.240 Precisely right.

01:03:34.960 He was they, them.

01:03:36.300 And he throws himself at the feet of Jesus.

01:03:39.000 He sees him coming.

01:03:40.080 And he throws himself at the feet of Jesus.

01:03:42.580 And the demons cry out, what have we to do with you, O son of God?

01:03:46.880 We know who you are, you son of God.

01:03:49.600 Why have you come to judge us before the appointed time?

01:03:54.640 Right.

01:03:55.740 So what do we have here?

01:03:57.220 We have a confirmation of the book of Enoch.

01:03:59.260 Because the distance bodied spirits of the Nephilim, they have no bodies of their own.

01:04:03.960 So what do they want?

01:04:04.600 They want bodies.

01:04:06.380 So they're inhabiting the bodies of human beings.

01:04:09.260 And through the bodies of the people that they possess, they're attempting to satiate these desires that they have, which are otherwise insatiable.

01:04:19.300 And they see who walking on the shore of Gadara?

01:04:23.160 The great judge.

01:04:25.580 But wait a minute.

01:04:26.480 It's not time yet, according to the book of Enoch.

01:04:29.880 It's not the end of the age yet.

01:04:31.320 That's why they cry out, what have we to do with you?

01:04:34.060 Why have you come to judge us before the appointed time?

01:04:38.260 The time had not yet come and they knew it.

01:04:40.200 So there's a confirmation of that cosmology that comes from first Enoch in this encounter that Jesus has with the Gadarene demoniac, who is a human being being possessed by disembodied spirits.

01:04:56.200 So that's the very narrow definition of what a demon is.

01:04:59.660 And as I illustrated before, it's the same idea to the Greeks.

01:05:03.440 As I said, they believe that the daimons, the daimones, or however you pronounce it in Greek, were, are disembodied spirits from people who lived in the world before the flood in the golden age.

01:05:16.240 It's the same, it's basically the same tradition.

01:05:18.440 So this, this, this is important to me because we have a default, I think.

01:05:24.440 And I, I've, I, I had to, I had to unlearn this because I grew up in church.

01:05:30.000 My father was a pastor of a Protestant church and a very good man, very good pastor.

01:05:33.960 I had a very good upbringing.

01:05:34.660 But there were things that, that are traditional, just like we were talking about the conventional historical things, archaeological things that are, are missing, there are big gaps in them, right?

01:05:44.600 You have to, you have to, at some point you have to come to terms with these, with these gaps if you're studying megaliths.

01:05:50.780 Well, in the same way, if you're studying the Bible, at some point you have, there's gaps here that we have to come to terms with.

01:05:56.100 Information, we don't have all the information.

01:05:58.680 And so we, in the West, we tend to label everything demons.

01:06:02.760 Everything's a demon.

01:06:04.660 Anything, as I said, grotesque and scary and ugly and menacing is a demon.

01:06:09.020 And that's fine because we all understand what we mean.

01:06:11.300 But when we get into certain situations, that becomes a little bit unhelpful and unuseful.

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01:07:41.120 It's interesting to think of it from the Catholic perspective

01:07:44.140 because we think the Catholics rule on every single thing,

01:07:47.280 and they have a very precise, detailed explanation of everything.

01:07:51.640 You know, you can open up St. Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologiae.

01:07:54.460 You can figure out exactly what to have for your mid-afternoon snack on Tuesday, November 8th.

01:07:59.480 You know, it's that kind of detail.

01:08:00.540 And yet, there are major questions that the church refuses to give a definitive answer on.

01:08:07.220 Like extraterrestrial aliens, which is a possibility.

01:08:11.340 Like how to read the age of the earth.

01:08:14.300 Like, these things are left kind of open.

01:08:18.140 And I appreciate, I really appreciate that about the Catholics.

01:08:21.380 Well, it's very, because with all of the details, there is a great deal of caution that one must have.

01:08:28.000 I mean, we really, just as a matter of course, there's this legend about St. Augustine's writing De Trinitate.

01:08:32.880 And the legend is he's walking on the beach, and a kid is like shoveling the ocean into a hole.

01:08:38.700 And he says, what are you doing?

01:08:39.740 He says, I'm going to fit the ocean in the hole.

01:08:41.280 They say, you can't do that.

01:08:42.220 He goes, that's right.

01:08:42.680 And you can't fit the Trinity in your head, Augustine.

01:08:44.380 And he's transformed and becomes an angel.

01:08:46.360 It's a legend, obviously.

01:08:47.500 But it's this notion that there are things between heaven and earth.

01:08:51.820 There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy.

01:08:53.900 Even on, some of my Protestant friends are insistent that there's no such thing as ghosts.

01:08:58.620 Well, a major plot point in Hamlet is whether or not Hamlet sees the ghost of his dad, or is it a demon of some kind?

01:09:06.740 You know, is it a trick?

01:09:08.420 And the Catholic Church doesn't rule that there's no such thing as ghosts.

01:09:14.020 You know, the Catholic view is kind of there's more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in our particular philosophy.

01:09:18.680 Right, there's a lot of unknowns.

01:09:19.600 And it kind of seems like that's the stance that you're taking.

01:09:23.820 Oh, yeah, certainly.

01:09:24.820 I think there's a lot that we don't know.

01:09:27.320 And I don't expect the Bible to inform me of everything.

01:09:30.720 I would never have expected the Bible to tell me about the internet or artificial intelligence or robots or automobiles.

01:09:38.240 I expect the Bible to do exactly what it does.

01:09:41.120 It is a message that conveys the gospel of Christ to mankind.

01:09:45.940 That's the primary function of the Bible.

01:09:47.980 It is God speaking to a particular people at a particular time.

01:09:53.260 But the message is for all time, to all men.

01:09:56.520 And it's absolutely ingenious.

01:09:59.740 Cardinal Baronius has this great line around the Galileo affair, which is,

01:10:03.340 the Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go.

01:10:07.740 I would agree with that.

01:10:09.920 Yeah.

01:10:10.000 And I think there's tremendous knowledge that is encrypted in the Bible, literally.

01:10:17.340 I'm talking knowledge about all kinds of things that's encrypted.

01:10:21.580 Astrological knowledge, for example, that's encrypted all over the Bible, the Old Testament.

01:10:26.800 But as I said, the primary purpose of the Bible is to convey the gospel of Christ.

01:10:32.940 You know, that's why when Jesus came to the earth, I mean, here you have the Son of God walking among men.

01:10:39.660 According to the writers of the New Testament, the universe was created through him and by him and for him.

01:10:48.660 And in him all things consist.

01:10:50.360 And that person is walking with his disciples.

01:10:54.940 He doesn't bother to tell them about electricity.

01:10:57.940 He doesn't tell them about splitting the atom, about nuclear power.

01:11:02.020 He doesn't tell them about the germ theory of disease.

01:11:05.100 The great podcasts that one day people will be able to listen to.

01:11:07.440 Precisely right.

01:11:08.200 Yeah.

01:11:08.660 The advent of cameras and the Michael Knoll show.

01:11:10.900 That's right.

01:11:11.900 He doesn't tell them about any of these things.

01:11:14.200 He could have.

01:11:15.020 Yeah.

01:11:15.760 I mean, the universe was created through him.

01:11:17.820 Yeah.

01:11:18.360 Right?

01:11:18.580 He knows everything.

01:11:20.660 But what does he tell them?

01:11:21.780 The kingdom of heaven is like this.

01:11:23.600 The kingdom of heaven is like a tree.

01:11:25.300 The kingdom of heaven is like a person.

01:11:26.840 So on and so forth.

01:11:27.640 He's talking to them like they're children through parables.

01:11:30.140 Yeah.

01:11:31.160 And he's conveying to them the gospel.

01:11:34.800 And he's conveying to them, talking to them like little children, trying to tell them about what the kingdom of heaven is, what it's really like.

01:11:43.440 And so that's what I expect from the Bible.

01:11:45.440 I expect the Bible to communicate the message of God to mankind and specifically the gospel of Christ, which is the most important information we could possibly conceive of.

01:11:55.860 And so I'm very appreciative.

01:11:58.860 I love talking to Catholics.

01:12:00.480 I do.

01:12:00.780 I love talking to Catholics.

01:12:01.880 I talk to Catholics of all stripes.

01:12:04.040 Because we've hedged our bets on a lot of questions.

01:12:06.080 Well, they're very open to all kinds of things.

01:12:08.460 Like you mentioned aliens and life on other planets.

01:12:13.140 Most Catholics I talk to are totally open to that.

01:12:15.500 Now, I am personally quite skeptical to the point of outright denying in my limited knowledge that there are aliens.

01:12:23.380 The church has not made any statement on that.

01:12:25.040 I mean, no sort of definitive teaching on that.

01:12:27.160 And some saints even are reputed to have entertained the notion of extraterrestrial aliens.

01:12:35.100 Obviously, he's not quite Catholic, but he was high church Anglican.

01:12:38.020 C.S. Lewis writes a whole series about aliens.

01:12:41.180 Which I've never read.

01:12:42.280 Everyone tells me.

01:12:42.900 You know, I read the Chronicles of Narnia front and back like ten times.

01:12:46.980 I've never read the other series that I wrote.

01:12:49.220 Everybody tells me I have to read.

01:12:50.220 I'm cursed in that I love culture, but I hate reading fiction.

01:12:53.900 And so I haven't read it either, nor have I read Narnia.

01:12:57.220 But I have a debate in this building, and I'm actually fearful of which side you're going to come down on.

01:13:02.880 I have a debate with my friend and colleague, Matt Walsh.

01:13:06.160 I'm very anti-alien.

01:13:09.140 He's very pro-alien.

01:13:10.900 He might be an alien himself.

01:13:12.740 And if he is, I'm going to call Tom Homan and have him deported.

01:13:16.180 Are aliens real?

01:13:17.480 Well, for me, this is where I spend a lot of time on this subject.

01:13:23.440 And this is an interesting crossover because I often talk about these two topics in the same setting.

01:13:30.700 The antediluvian world and all of that.

01:13:32.500 And then usually find my way over to the alien topic because I write a lot and talk about both of these.

01:13:37.960 And the reason why I'm so adamant about understanding the proper definition of a demon is because most Christians that I engage with, and I was in this camp two years ago, most Christians that I engage with believe that aliens are demons.

01:13:55.920 That's sort of the common trope.

01:13:58.420 Aliens are demons.

01:13:59.580 I understand.

01:14:00.800 I totally understand the sentiment.

01:14:02.940 I understand what people who say that mean.

01:14:05.900 So it's not illogical to me, but it's definitionally wrong.

01:14:15.160 Because they have bodies.

01:14:16.280 They have bodies.

01:14:16.900 I also believe, by the way, just to, I want to make this statement, I also believe angels have bodies.

01:14:23.040 I don't believe angels are disembodied.

01:14:25.180 I believe angels have bodies like us.

01:14:26.660 In fact, in my book, Birthright, I refer to them as our elder siblings.

01:14:29.940 I think we're very, very similar.

01:14:31.340 We're not the same, but we're very similar.

01:14:33.160 They eat and drink.

01:14:33.920 They make music.

01:14:34.920 They do all the same things that we do.

01:14:36.720 And they did them first.

01:14:37.900 They preexist us.

01:14:38.720 But getting back over to the aliens topic, here's what we can know about UFOs and aliens.

01:14:47.040 And I'm going to say this definitively, because I interface with all kinds of people.

01:14:50.860 I interface with people in government.

01:14:52.520 I interface with some congressmen.

01:14:55.400 I'm always very curious about this topic.

01:14:58.840 Well, there's now a major congressional committee investigating UFOs.

01:15:03.620 That's right.

01:15:04.380 Yes.

01:15:04.700 And I've talked to a couple of congressmen on that committee.

01:15:07.100 I talked to Lou Elizondo, who was the main whistleblower in the last hearing.

01:15:12.380 And I'm very well versed in ufology.

01:15:16.160 And one thing that is undeniable to me, now, people in your audience may not believe this,

01:15:22.140 and that's fine.

01:15:22.700 But to me, because I've done a lot of research, and I've made myself very conversant with this

01:15:28.000 material, UFOs of non-human origin have crashed.

01:15:37.100 Have been recovered, including the bodies of the pilots.

01:15:43.940 Okay.

01:15:44.180 So until you said that last part, you could, in principle, say, well, maybe it's the Chinese,

01:15:50.920 or maybe it's some new technology that someone came up with, or maybe it's our own technology,

01:15:55.340 and just some part of the government didn't know.

01:15:57.420 But if little green men are being recovered, little gray men, then it's probably not the U.S.

01:16:04.060 government.

01:16:04.420 When you have exotic technology, and you have non-human, as David Grush describes them, biologics,

01:16:14.360 non-human biologics associated with these crash retrievals, you are not dealing with a human

01:16:20.960 phenomenon, and you're not dealing with a supernatural phenomenon.

01:16:24.040 What you're dealing with here is a physical phenomenon.

01:16:27.060 You're dealing with corporeal beings who are at the helms of functional technology.

01:16:34.740 Technology, by the way, that doesn't just appear out of thin air.

01:16:38.620 You know, there had to be blueprints for these things.

01:16:40.800 They had to be manufactured.

01:16:42.320 The raw materials had to be harvested, processed, and refined to create this technology.

01:16:47.540 And the technology I'm referring to is advanced aerospace vehicles.

01:16:50.420 Okay, so my skeptical read on that, on that very statement, from a whistleblower on UFOs,

01:16:56.900 said we've recovered these vehicles, and there were non-human biologics in it.

01:17:00.880 My skeptical, maybe even cynical read, is it's our technology.

01:17:07.980 We're faking out our adversaries.

01:17:10.840 And it could remain, if you find one little dog hair in an otherwise human-made or even piloted vehicle,

01:17:18.000 you could say there's a non-human biologic.

01:17:19.560 You know, there's an ant got into the drone.

01:17:23.040 Now, again, that's a prejudicial read.

01:17:25.920 I'm not basing that on any scientific or technological finds there.

01:17:31.100 You're saying, no, no, no, it means what it sounds like he means.

01:17:34.880 It's E.T.

01:17:35.920 We're going to try and convert you here to Elberino and Walsh's perspective.

01:17:39.540 All right.

01:17:40.500 I might need something a little stronger than myself.

01:17:42.060 Well, the problem with that is, first of all, you have crash retrieval events going back to World War II.

01:17:52.320 Yep.

01:17:53.000 Cold War era.

01:17:54.140 And even some predating World War II.

01:17:56.620 Yep.

01:17:56.760 Okay, so you would have to make the claim then.

01:18:00.780 Assuming that these crash retrievals are real, let's just assume for the moment, for the sake of argument, that they happened.

01:18:05.200 Yeah, yeah.

01:18:05.440 Assuming that we, the United States government or some other government around the world, including the Nazis, had that kind of technology, but we didn't deploy it during World War II.

01:18:19.200 No, maybe that we had some kind of airplane, or these days maybe some kind of drone, or some other kind of vehicle that I can't even really imagine, and that these things sometimes malfunction, and they go down, and we make up stories about them.

01:18:31.100 But we're talking about craft.

01:18:32.420 We're talking about aerospace vehicles that are capable of making right-angle turns at thousands of miles an hour.

01:18:40.080 Yeah, yeah.

01:18:41.080 That's what we're talking about.

01:18:42.120 But that's at least the whistleblowers today are saying, these little tic-tacs that are, you know.

01:18:46.620 So it's what has been observed by many, many people and filmed.

01:18:50.960 I myself have seen one of these craft at close proximity.

01:18:54.060 I was, some years ago, I was, when I was first getting into this research and studying all different aspects of ufology, including alien abduction, I would be, I work out with my brother-in-law in his basement.

01:19:08.460 We'd be lifting weights in his basement, my brother-in-law, Tony.

01:19:12.260 And many times, the topic of our conversation would be this.

01:19:16.940 Yeah, yeah.

01:19:17.400 You know, aliens and alien technology, Bob Lazar, reverse engineering of exotic technology, and so forth.

01:19:24.980 Often, this was the topic of conversation.

01:19:27.780 And one day, we're lifting weights in his basement, and my brother-in-law says, hey, let's go run over to GNC.

01:19:34.160 I want to grab some supplements.

01:19:35.100 But it was getting late, and the GNC store closed.

01:19:39.120 I think it was closed at 9 o'clock or something.

01:19:42.240 And so we hop in my car, and we drive to, we're in Cleveland, Ohio.

01:19:46.600 We drive to the suburb over, Brook Park, Ohio, where I grew up.

01:19:49.340 I was born in Brook Park, born and bred in Brook Park, Ohio.

01:19:51.740 And we drive over to this area I'm very familiar with.

01:19:54.440 It was called the Brookgate Shopping Strip Mall.

01:19:56.620 And there's a big parking lot, and we're approaching, and it's probably around 8 o'clock, 8.30 at night.

01:20:04.060 Very cold.

01:20:04.840 It was in February.

01:20:05.840 Very, very windy.

01:20:07.040 Very, very frigid, windy day.

01:20:09.720 And we're approaching the intersection, and on the other side of the intersection is this large parking lot, and you've got the strip malls.

01:20:17.260 And I remember there was like a Hollywood video.

01:20:19.000 It used to be a blockbuster here on the corner.

01:20:21.940 And we're talking about, at this moment, we're not talking about UFOs.

01:20:25.420 We're talking about something else.

01:20:26.580 And my brother-in-law says, hey, what's that?

01:20:28.640 And we look, and there's an object, a bright object, hovering above that Hollywood video store.

01:20:37.060 For those young people out there, that's where we used to buy VHS tapes.

01:20:40.200 This was in the 1860s.

01:20:41.620 Exactly.

01:20:43.920 And our first inclination was, that's a Black Hawk.

01:20:50.280 That's a Chinook.

01:20:51.860 That's a helicopter because there's a National Guard base close by.

01:20:55.140 Oh, they're running some kind of a drill.

01:20:58.640 And we thought, it's kind of windy for a helicopter right now.

01:21:01.060 But we instinctively rolled our windows down.

01:21:03.900 We rolled our windows down to listen for the telltale sound of blades whipping through the air.

01:21:07.880 Nothing.

01:21:08.720 Okay, well, we're not that close yet.

01:21:10.160 So, not thinking too much of it.

01:21:12.800 I drive into the parking lot.

01:21:14.520 There's hardly anybody there because it's almost closing time, right?

01:21:17.580 And I didn't even park in a spot.

01:21:19.060 I just hit the brakes and threw my car into park.

01:21:22.700 Because this craft lifted up from its position above Hollywood Video, the store on the corner,

01:21:32.720 lifted up, effortlessly turns in the air, very, very effortlessly, and maneuvers right over my car.

01:21:42.020 Positions itself, not directly above my car, but above and in front.

01:21:46.640 How big is this?

01:21:47.300 It was the size of like a Chinook troop carrier.

01:21:50.600 It was the size of a small aircraft.

01:21:53.080 And it begins to descend over my car.

01:21:57.200 And now, keep in mind, my brother-in-law and I were often engaging in UFO-related topics and conversation.

01:22:04.760 We're looking at this thing.

01:22:06.180 It's literally descending.

01:22:08.140 And it gets to about, we think it was about 40 feet.

01:22:10.640 I could have hit it with a rock, right?

01:22:12.020 About 40 feet above my car, but in front of us.

01:22:14.480 I see the whole thing through the windshield.

01:22:16.400 And our jaws are on the floor.

01:22:19.340 We don't even know what to say.

01:22:20.780 We're just staring at this thing because there are no propellers.

01:22:26.240 There's no exhaust.

01:22:27.440 There's no engines.

01:22:28.440 Is it a flying saucer?

01:22:29.820 There's no wings.

01:22:31.240 There's no propulsion system to speak of.

01:22:33.840 It has like sort of kind of angular body armor type.

01:22:37.720 Yeah.

01:22:38.380 It's like a dark, it's like a grayish or a dark green.

01:22:42.700 It's something like that.

01:22:44.260 And it's in the place of wings.

01:22:46.640 It has these little stubby protrusions.

01:22:49.580 No wings.

01:22:51.000 No tail.

01:22:52.120 And it had a sort of a diamond shape to it.

01:22:55.340 Yeah.

01:22:55.920 But rounded.

01:22:57.000 Yeah.

01:22:57.760 And there's no insignia.

01:23:00.700 Nothing.

01:23:02.160 And no sound whatsoever.

01:23:04.740 Now, it is so windy as I'm sitting in my car.

01:23:08.580 I'm in the driver's seat.

01:23:09.700 Tony's in the passenger seat.

01:23:10.740 It is so windy that the car is going like this.

01:23:12.680 Yeah.

01:23:13.520 Okay.

01:23:13.820 And you hear the blast of wind against the car and the car is shaking.

01:23:17.260 This craft is totally unmoved by the wind.

01:23:20.940 It's like it's in its own atmospheric bubble.

01:23:23.660 It is totally unaffected by the wind.

01:23:26.280 And it has a series of, I think it was green and blue lights around the bottom.

01:23:29.840 And it had triangle, big triangle white lights in the front.

01:23:34.480 And I remember, I can't remember, I think I remember two.

01:23:37.580 My brother-in-law remembers one or the other way around.

01:23:39.800 But there had big triangle white lights in the front.

01:23:43.740 And it just hovered there for a good amount of time.

01:23:47.380 I mean, just staring at this, we probably stared at this thing for a minute, maybe two minutes.

01:23:52.040 That's a long time just to be gaping at something.

01:23:55.080 40 feet above my car.

01:23:57.360 And I said, and it was like I was coming out of a daze.

01:24:00.480 And I said, Tony, your phone, your phone.

01:24:04.000 Because back in those days, this was probably, oh, I don't know, 15 years ago, 12 years ago.

01:24:09.260 I didn't have a smartphone.

01:24:10.720 I just had a flip phone, but he had a smartphone.

01:24:12.940 And so what I was saying was, get your phone out, take a picture, take a video.

01:24:16.380 And he's like coming out of a daze.

01:24:18.020 And he starts searching his pockets for his phone.

01:24:20.560 He pulls his phone out and drops it.

01:24:24.100 And he bends over to grab the phone.

01:24:25.940 And while he's bending over to grab the phone, the craft lifts up into the air.

01:24:29.260 Just effortlessly lifts up into the air.

01:24:31.220 No sound.

01:24:32.500 Now, it's right above my car, okay?

01:24:33.900 There's no hydraulics.

01:24:35.360 There's no gust of wind coming out the bottom of it.

01:24:38.000 It just lifts up into the air and turns like this.

01:24:42.200 And it starts to move away.

01:24:44.360 Totally silent.

01:24:45.020 We jumped out of the car.

01:24:46.800 And by the time we got out of the car and he got his phone, it's already going over the horizon.

01:24:51.280 So, now, what was that?

01:24:53.940 I have no idea.

01:24:55.560 None.

01:24:56.640 Do I think it was aliens in this particular situation?

01:24:59.380 No.

01:25:00.700 I don't.

01:25:01.180 I got the distinct sense that I was looking at exotic technology that was derived from a crash retrieval, from a non-human crash retrieval.

01:25:11.000 Why do I think that?

01:25:11.880 Just because of my research background and all of that.

01:25:15.440 So, you're saying you're near the guard base and maybe there is a connection here.

01:25:20.020 Not that it's our technology, but it's some technology that they discovered.

01:25:23.360 But it could be our guys who were flying it.

01:25:25.120 Yeah.

01:25:25.380 It was an ET that was flying it.

01:25:26.800 Okay.

01:25:27.160 So, let's go back to the hearings that you mentioned.

01:25:30.360 Yeah.

01:25:30.940 Because then the question to me is, okay, you almost had me on it's aliens.

01:25:35.080 I almost had you.

01:25:35.660 Until you said it's not aliens.

01:25:36.560 And I say, well, how do you know we didn't?

01:25:37.980 If it's our guys flying it, how do you know they didn't build it?

01:25:39.900 So, this is why.

01:25:42.860 You have whistleblowers who've come forward over the years, including one who's never officially come forward, Bob Lazar.

01:25:49.200 Bob Lazar's testimony is very compelling.

01:25:51.960 I totally believe Bob Lazar.

01:25:53.780 I think Bob is telling the truth.

01:25:55.560 And that's where we get the Area 51 narrative.

01:25:57.540 That comes from George Knapp, who was the first one to disclose that story with Bob Lazar.

01:26:03.140 It was a big deal back in the 90s.

01:26:05.440 But since Bob Lazar, it's kind of been a big gap before you've had other whistleblowers, very credible whistleblowers.

01:26:11.200 You've had some.

01:26:12.040 But I would say until you – it was a big gap between the caliber of whistleblower that Bob Lazar was, in my opinion, and the ones that have recently come out in Congress.

01:26:21.660 Of course, the first one, where there's a group of them, but the main testimony in that first hearing, that first UAP hearing in Congress, was David Grush.

01:26:33.720 David Grush was in the intelligence community.

01:26:35.760 He was tasked with studying UFOs.

01:26:37.500 And his testimony, under oath, was that he came up against a program, which he describes as a legacy program.

01:26:47.580 He refers to it as the legacy program, this program that goes back decades.

01:26:51.620 It's a retrieval program, a retrieval and reverse engineering program, a retrieval of what?

01:26:56.720 UFOs, a retrieval of non-human advanced aerospace vehicles.

01:27:01.340 Or at the very least of unidentified flying objects.

01:27:03.680 Well, he gets very specific because the congressmen and women ask him some very specific questions.

01:27:09.900 I remember Nancy Mace asked him and a couple of other congressmen specifically about the nature of the craft.

01:27:18.080 Is this ours?

01:27:18.860 Is this China's?

01:27:19.840 Is this Russia's?

01:27:22.840 And he definitively said, no.

01:27:24.960 No, this program that I came up against was specifically designed to recover non-human technology, non-human craft.

01:27:36.080 He called them spacecraft.

01:27:37.860 And in these recoveries, there were non-human biologicals.

01:27:41.380 And we have since derived our own technology from what we've been able to recover and reverse engineer.

01:27:47.760 And I think we've had limited success in reverse engineer some of the components from these craft.

01:27:52.800 So we're talking about craft, the origin of which is not planet Earth.

01:27:58.780 And why do I say that?

01:28:01.080 Because you could make the case.

01:28:03.300 And before I go there, by the way, the other whistleblowers testified to the same.

01:28:08.480 David Fravor, the pilot who chased the Tic Tac UFO, that whole scenario, the Nimitz incident.

01:28:18.280 He said, under oath, there's no way this is us.

01:28:22.160 We don't have anything like this.

01:28:23.220 This is not, I mean, this is technology far beyond anything that we have, in his opinion.

01:28:28.540 And then you have, of course, Lou Elizondo and some of the others who've come out more recently.

01:28:32.880 But the point is that these vehicles of non-human origin, they incorporate exotic matter.

01:28:42.200 And I'll go back to Lazar's account.

01:28:46.180 I don't know if you're familiar with Bob Lazar.

01:28:47.640 Not really, no.

01:28:48.580 Bob Lazar came out in the 90s.

01:28:50.600 And he said that his claim was that he had been hired as a physicist to work in a secret facility in the area of Area 51.

01:29:00.400 But not Area 51 exactly.

01:29:01.680 It was the S4 facility.

01:29:02.800 And he specifically was hired as a physicist to work on the reactor of a particular non-human craft.

01:29:13.100 And this craft was a saucer.

01:29:14.900 It was a saucer-shaped craft.

01:29:16.700 And he called it the sports model because it was sleek and it was functioning.

01:29:21.060 Yeah, yeah.

01:29:21.500 And they had other craft there, too, in different conditions.

01:29:24.260 Some of them obviously had crashed and were not in functioning condition.

01:29:27.340 But this one, the sports model, flew.

01:29:31.160 And they were trying to figure out how the engine worked, how the reactor worked.

01:29:36.680 Because it was operated, the operating system, the engine was a reactor.

01:29:42.040 It turns out it was a matter-antimatter reactor.

01:29:45.520 And it produced gravity waves.

01:29:47.080 It produced enough energy to harness gravity, to bend gravity, to manipulate gravity.

01:29:53.140 And that's how these craft fly.

01:29:54.160 Anyway, Lazar says that the key component to make this reactor work is something called element 115.

01:30:04.260 And element 115 was a small engineered triangle, precisely engineered triangle.

01:30:10.600 And it was exotic matter.

01:30:12.920 Mind you, Lazar said this in the 90s.

01:30:15.440 And that element 115 had very unusual properties.

01:30:20.300 For one thing, you could generate antimatter.

01:30:22.620 You could create antimatter, could throw off antimatter, and you could have a matter-antimatter collision inside the reactor.

01:30:28.960 That would produce an enormous amount of energy.

01:30:32.300 Antimatter is a fact.

01:30:33.540 We know it's a fact.

01:30:34.740 We can create very small amounts of it in CERN.

01:30:38.700 You have matter-antimatter.

01:30:39.820 They always collide.

01:30:40.580 They always annihilate each other.

01:30:41.600 That's a very powerful force that if you can harness it, many, many times more powerful than an atomic bomb, than a thermonuclear warhead.

01:30:48.720 By the way, China wants to, and I believe is, building a collider, like the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, 10 times bigger than CERN.

01:31:00.000 And what do you think they want?

01:31:01.500 I think they want antimatter.

01:31:03.080 I think they want to make antimatter.

01:31:03.820 Only for peaceful purposes.

01:31:04.880 For peaceful purposes.

01:31:05.580 I think they want to make antimatter bombs.

01:31:07.080 Because if you drop an antimatter bomb, you get an explosion that's much more devastating without the fallout.

01:31:14.720 So you can bomb an area and then rebuild.

01:31:16.960 Whereas today, if you nuke a city, it's radioactive for a long time.

01:31:21.480 So antimatter, much better than nuclear.

01:31:24.040 An antimatter bomb is much more useful.

01:31:25.800 That's a little digression there.

01:31:27.620 So Lazar is working on this reactor.

01:31:31.740 And the only way this reactor functions is with element 115.

01:31:35.860 Element 115 is exotic.

01:31:37.540 It means it's not on Earth.

01:31:40.020 It wasn't on our periodic table.

01:31:42.340 But Lazar said it was real.

01:31:44.780 And it turns out that it is.

01:31:46.960 Years later, in Russia, they were able to produce a particular isotope of element 115.

01:31:57.020 It's on the periodic table.

01:31:58.620 Today it's called Moscavian.

01:31:59.700 It wasn't known when Lazar said it.

01:32:03.640 Now it's on our periodic table, Moscavian.

01:32:06.780 So element 115 exists.

01:32:09.080 But on Earth, there are no stable elements.

01:32:12.160 But the element 115 that was incorporated into the antimatter reactor that Lazar worked on was stable.

01:32:20.040 And it was not derived from planet Earth.

01:32:23.380 And that can be said of some of the other materials that are discovered on these craft.

01:32:27.220 And that we can't reverse engineer them because we don't have the matter.

01:32:31.140 We don't have the raw material to do it.

01:32:33.360 It's being harvested from somewhere else that's not Earth.

01:32:36.600 Now, of course, people can believe that or not.

01:32:39.480 They can think that this is just all fantasy is suing from my lips right now.

01:32:43.920 Because if it were, it would be a good comic book.

01:32:48.400 You know, there's this one special element that's not, we don't have it.

01:32:52.380 But you put that magic key in and that's what makes the magic craft.

01:32:56.300 So I'm not saying, I'm actually not saying that I don't believe it.

01:32:59.860 But it does fit a story pretty well.

01:33:01.740 But, however, before you explain why it's not just a comic book, I have to let the viewers in on something very odd.

01:33:10.680 So producers have been running back and forth for the past, like, five minutes.

01:33:13.860 And when you started talking, this is so, no one's, I don't even know if people are going to believe me when I say this.

01:33:21.220 When you started talking about the aliens and the antimatter, all the lights went off.

01:33:27.840 All these lamps, which, the lamps had new batteries.

01:33:32.700 We checked that.

01:33:34.680 And it wasn't just one lamp or two.

01:33:37.120 They just all went off.

01:33:39.280 Maybe somebody's signaling to us to shut up.

01:33:41.280 So the producers have told me they have a $4,000 confidence monitor just to see how the shot is.

01:33:50.240 And it just went out.

01:33:53.200 It didn't turn off.

01:33:54.780 It, like, fizzed.

01:33:55.820 Like, the picture got all crazy.

01:33:57.120 That is not a setting on that monitor.

01:33:59.940 At what point in time did that happen when we were talking about...

01:34:02.180 You're talking about aliens and matter and, yeah, and matter and it.

01:34:07.680 Maybe the NSA turned up the volume.

01:34:14.540 That's, like, the best case scenario is that it was the NSA.

01:34:17.500 That is really, I don't know, not a lot spooks me in these things, but that's crazy.

01:34:26.340 It is.

01:34:27.240 I don't know if I've mentioned this on this show before.

01:34:29.680 I interviewed an exorcist.

01:34:31.540 It's the biggest episode we've ever had, Father Rehill.

01:34:34.020 And we were filming it, and as he was talking, we never have audio issues on the show.

01:34:39.260 Every 20 minutes or so, we had an audio problem.

01:34:43.240 And this happened, maybe less than 20 minutes, I guess.

01:34:46.160 It must have been, because we had, I don't know, three, four, five times?

01:34:49.460 And we had to stop.

01:34:50.800 And then I asked him, I said, wait a second.

01:34:54.000 Does this happen to you regularly?

01:34:55.660 He goes, story of my life.

01:34:57.520 We never had an audio problem again for the rest of the episode.

01:35:00.320 Well, it hasn't been that common in my life, so that's very interesting.

01:35:03.840 It's weird.

01:35:04.440 Anyway, sorry to interrupt.

01:35:06.820 You see, now I don't even want to say it sounds fanciful, because I'm kind of spooked.

01:35:10.720 But you see, it does sound fanciful.

01:35:13.420 Well, what I'm trying to illustrate here is that there's a lot of credible people who are saying the same thing.

01:35:18.420 These whistleblowers are all saying the same thing.

01:35:21.140 We have recovered, let's call it, they call it UAP.

01:35:23.700 I like the old terminology better, UFO.

01:35:25.440 So they've recovered UFOs that are of non-human origin.

01:35:28.860 And it wasn't just the whistleblowers who's come forward.

01:35:31.060 We're talking about guys like Al Puthoff, Eric Davis, the astrophysicist, guys that contract with the government.

01:35:38.840 There's more whistleblowers coming forth right now.

01:35:42.060 And the congressmen have heard these stories both in front of the public in the context of the hearing, but also behind the scenes.

01:35:51.740 And they've interfaced with these guys a lot.

01:35:53.540 There was another individual who just came out recently named Jacob Barber.

01:35:57.440 I don't know if you saw that.

01:35:58.840 News Nation did a report on that.

01:36:00.240 And he says the same thing.

01:36:03.980 We've been retrieving, we have been retrieving for decades, alien advanced aerospace vehicles.

01:36:11.940 I will concede at least, I'm friends with a number of members of Congress.

01:36:16.240 And since all the congressional UFO investigations kicked off, people that I would never have expected to be open-minded to the idea of E.T. are.

01:36:28.340 Right, because of what they're seeing and hearing behind the scenes in Washington, D.C.

01:36:33.960 I mean, most of the guys that I interface with know this to be a fact.

01:36:38.260 That this is, they believe David Grush.

01:36:41.740 They believe his testimony.

01:36:42.700 They believe David Fravor.

01:36:44.140 They believe Lou Elizondo.

01:36:47.240 Their facts check out.

01:36:49.680 Their testimonies are solid.

01:36:51.080 And these are solid individuals.

01:36:52.100 And so the whole point here is, if you have technology with non-conventional components, exotic components that cannot be recreated on Earth, that by definition must be extraterrestrial.

01:37:10.400 Must be.

01:37:11.480 Must be.

01:37:11.920 Now, I am totally open to what's called the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis.

01:37:17.060 I don't know if you're familiar with the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis.

01:37:20.100 Basically, what the hypothesis posits is that there could very well be, inhabiting planet Earth, a faction of some kind, a non-human faction or an ancient human faction that's covert,

01:37:33.960 that we simply don't know about, that is highly advanced, maybe living in underground bases under the ocean, somewhere we'd never think to look.

01:37:44.200 And so the phenomenon, the origin of the phenomenon could be planet Earth.

01:37:47.600 I'm totally open to that as well.

01:37:49.720 But you can't close the door on the extraterrestrial component because of the exotic matter.

01:37:53.660 It also, by the way, if it, it's hard for me to imagine where they would be coming from in our solar system or galaxy or whatever,

01:38:01.660 just given my limited knowledge and our collective limited knowledge on how these things work,

01:38:05.920 it's hard to imagine how E.T. would get here across vast distances.

01:38:09.820 It would be at least as weird if E.T. was bubbling out of the ocean.

01:38:14.300 Like, that would not, that wouldn't seem to me like the mundane explanation.

01:38:17.760 No, no, no, don't worry.

01:38:18.440 They're just at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

01:38:20.660 No, that's where the UFOs.

01:38:22.060 Well, I mean, there are a lot of UFO sightings that happen, even specifically with our Navy, at sea or in the vicinity of a large body of water.

01:38:33.840 And they do come out of the water.

01:38:36.080 And, you know, the old idea was that it's impossible for any kind of civilization to travel across the stars because the distances are simply too vast.

01:38:48.040 It would take them forever to get here and how would you, life support of that mission and so forth.

01:38:52.700 You'd run out of resources.

01:38:54.640 And that, that was the old idea.

01:38:57.620 That's, that's not the way physicists are thinking anymore.

01:39:01.000 Most physicists will acknowledge that you can bend space-time.

01:39:04.800 Give it enough energy.

01:39:06.680 You can bend space-time.

01:39:08.000 I mean, this, you, this is certainly feasible within Einstonian physics, within relativity.

01:39:15.420 Wouldn't that kind of mess up our bodies, though, if we did that?

01:39:18.120 No, not necessarily.

01:39:19.560 No, I mean, there's been papers written by a lot of very eminent scientists like Hal Puthoff who have explained how you could theoretically bend space.

01:39:30.420 Now, the thing you need, though, is a tremendous amount of energy.

01:39:34.960 You need something like a matter-antimatter reactor to do it.

01:39:38.240 This is the conclusion that Lou Elizondo and his team came up with when he worked in an official capacity at the Pentagon.

01:39:47.120 This is the conclusion they drew, was that these craft are producing a tremendous amount of energy.

01:39:54.120 And they're, they're able to manipulate gravity.

01:39:56.800 They're able to generate gravity waves.

01:39:58.420 Yeah.

01:39:59.800 And that you can take two points in space that are distant.

01:40:04.320 You know, this is, this is, you know, if I had a piece of paper, this is what, this is what physicists always do to illustrate this point.

01:40:10.300 They'll take a piece of paper.

01:40:11.120 They'll say, here's point one and point two, and these are light years away.

01:40:14.400 But what if you can bend the fabric of space-time, and then they poke the pencil through the two points?

01:40:19.640 Right.

01:40:19.980 You can instantaneously, instantaneously travel from one side of the universe to the next.

01:40:24.900 Every physicist acknowledges that this is possible, theoretically possible.

01:40:29.940 So the idea that vast distances of space cannot be traversed is old hat.

01:40:35.360 We've, we've definitely progressed beyond that.

01:40:37.820 I don't think there's hardly any physicists out there saying that anymore.

01:40:41.080 I don't know.

01:40:41.320 Maybe Neil, Neil deGrasse Tyson.

01:40:42.840 I'm not sure he says a lot of dumb things.

01:40:45.560 He may be out there saying that, but I've unfollowed him on Twitter.

01:40:48.740 So I don't, I don't even know.

01:40:49.880 But most, most physicists are going to acknowledge it.

01:40:53.000 Yes, this is absolutely theoretically possible.

01:40:54.960 As I keep saying, the problem is the energy to do it.

01:40:59.220 That's the problem.

01:41:00.320 And of course, you have people out there also saying that we have zero point energy.

01:41:03.340 We've discovered zero point energy.

01:41:05.480 Nikola Tesla was, was developing this.

01:41:08.020 And I don't know about any of that, but I can say, I can say that I am exceedingly persuaded

01:41:14.920 that the United States government, elements of the United States government, that's not

01:41:18.960 a really accurate way to describe it.

01:41:20.580 Elements of the United States government, of the military industrial complex, working

01:41:24.920 in coordination, primarily with, with defense contractors, aerospace defense contractors,

01:41:31.580 have been recovering both exotic craft, craft of non-human origin and biologicals, non-human

01:41:41.840 biologicals for decades and have had some success, albeit I believe limited in reverse engineering

01:41:49.260 some of these components and creating what I would describe as hybridized craft of our

01:41:54.020 own, which is what I believe I saw in Brook Park, Ohio, so many years ago.

01:41:58.400 So we, we have been able to figure out certain components of this technology and incorporate,

01:42:05.380 can incorporate exotic with conventional components to create hybridized craft.

01:42:10.340 Why don't you think it was an alien?

01:42:12.400 Why would it be, why, why are you so convinced that the thing you saw was a hybrid?

01:42:15.700 Why couldn't it have just been an alien?

01:42:17.140 It could have been, but I, for whatever reason, I really don't have any, any good answer to that

01:42:22.740 except for, I, my intuition was that this, this was ours, but it had no insignia.

01:42:29.020 And I'll tell you something very interesting.

01:42:30.360 So I'm writing my book, Birthright, back in 2020, and I'm sitting at my desk and I get my computer

01:42:36.240 screens here and I'm writing, and in Birthright, I tell the story I just told you about the craft

01:42:41.940 that I encountered in Brook Park.

01:42:43.200 It's on my screen.

01:42:44.420 I'm literally crafting the paragraph, right?

01:42:47.700 And every, every so often I would take a break and I have a reading chair next to my desk

01:42:52.060 and I'd sit down and read just to take a break from writing.

01:42:54.040 And I go back to writing, then I'd sit down and read.

01:42:56.220 And since I had that experience, I have been asking all of my UFO friends, um, all of the,

01:43:02.640 the, the ufologists that I interface with, have you ever encountered a craft like this?

01:43:07.580 Do you have any stories of this?

01:43:08.720 And all of them across the board have told me, no, this is, this is different.

01:43:12.900 You know, we've never encountered anything like this.

01:43:14.320 So I've always been baffled by that.

01:43:17.660 Uh, it wasn't a typical saucer or anything like that.

01:43:19.780 It was, as I described, like a diamond shape and it was reminiscent.

01:43:23.000 I forgot to add this detail.

01:43:24.180 I told you it had sort of that angular body armor, a little bit of that.

01:43:27.760 And it was, it was reminiscent of the, I believe it is that the F-117 Nighthawk, I think is what

01:43:33.820 it is.

01:43:34.060 It's the, it's the stealth fighter, the body armor.

01:43:36.520 It was reminiscent of that, but it had no wings and it wasn't that, but it was reminiscent.

01:43:40.120 So here I am writing this account in my book.

01:43:43.740 I take a break.

01:43:45.180 I'm in the middle of the paragraph.

01:43:46.720 I take a break and I sit down to open the book I was reading and to continue reading.

01:43:52.200 And the book I was reading was a book called Hunt for the Skinwalker by George Knapp and,

01:44:01.440 and I believe it's Colm Kelleheller.

01:44:03.000 And fascinating book, great book.

01:44:07.260 And I, I happened to be reading the section of the book where, and by the way, the book,

01:44:15.460 the book deals with this strange phenomenon that happens at Skinwalker Ranch.

01:44:20.200 And I happened to be reading the portion where the ex-owner, and this is a pseudonym, and I

01:44:23.980 think they called him Tom Gorman in the book, a pseudonym, where he is describing an experience

01:44:29.400 that he had on the property, on Skinwalker Ranch.

01:44:31.680 He said that he was on the ranch walking by, I believe, by the, by this particular mesa

01:44:36.760 on the ranch.

01:44:38.520 And he noticed this craft off in the distance.

01:44:43.680 And he described the craft exactly the way I saw it.

01:44:47.320 He described literally the craft that I saw that I was writing about.

01:44:50.920 So here's my computer.

01:44:52.220 I'm writing this story.

01:44:54.080 No one's ever seen, I've never encountered someone who's seen this craft.

01:44:56.760 I'm taking a break, reading a book, and I'm literally reading the same description that

01:45:02.880 I'm writing.

01:45:03.400 So how do you, how do you make sense of that?

01:45:05.160 Is that just a random coincidence?

01:45:06.740 I don't know.

01:45:07.320 Is that providence?

01:45:07.980 Is that some alien messing around with the pages you book?

01:45:11.100 I mean, I would like to think it's providential, but, but I mean, he describes it the same

01:45:15.160 exact way.

01:45:15.760 There was no sound.

01:45:16.700 It had little stubby nubs in the place of wings.

01:45:20.680 It was, it was, uh, reminiscent of the F-117 Nighthawk, a stealth fighter, all the same

01:45:26.960 details.

01:45:27.580 But this would have been, when, this would have been in the, this would have been, I

01:45:30.460 don't remember, um, when, uh, when they owned the ranch, this, the, the family that the book

01:45:36.140 is.

01:45:36.640 My question being, this would have been around the time of the development of the stealth

01:45:40.240 Nighthawk?

01:45:42.500 I'm not sure.

01:45:43.300 I'm not sure when the, when the Nighthawk was developed, but, but these were no, this was

01:45:46.680 not a Nighthawk.

01:45:47.720 I mean, you know, it was a big deal when, when, when we came out with the Harrier jet,

01:45:52.700 remember the Harrier jet that could take off vertically, but, but that the, the amount of

01:45:56.720 pressure that that jet had to produce air pressure would push cars out of the way, right?

01:46:02.840 To lift that.

01:46:03.760 Now we've, we've, we've since created, we've since developed that technology and we have

01:46:07.700 stuff that's much more advanced that uses air pressure that can push an aircraft off

01:46:12.200 of a, of, of a landing pad, for example, and then it can take off.

01:46:15.300 We have that now.

01:46:16.000 But back then the Harrier jet was like the most advanced thing the public knew about

01:46:19.780 in regard to vertical takeoff for an aircraft, for a jet.

01:46:24.080 And I mean, these things were the one I saw and the one that was described in, in Hunt

01:46:28.960 for the Skinwalker, Skinwalker Ranch, totally silent.

01:46:32.540 Okay.

01:46:32.800 So at the very least, what I saw with my own eyeballs is unconventional, exceedingly advanced

01:46:39.380 technology that somebody has.

01:46:41.220 Now, now you can say that that's us, that's Russia, that's China, whatever, or, or.

01:46:46.940 But it's pretty wild.

01:46:47.860 Whatever it is, it's pretty wild.

01:46:48.620 Or you can concede that, yeah, maybe we have recovered and reverse engineered alien technology,

01:46:54.000 exotic technology.

01:46:54.880 Now, I don't think it's coincidental that the testimonies, the witnesses that are coming

01:47:03.260 forth to Congress at the hearings, that their testimonies conform precisely to what we've

01:47:09.660 known as ufologists in the field of the study of UFOs for a very long time, perfectly conformed

01:47:17.080 to Bob Lazar's testimony that he came out with in the 90s.

01:47:19.560 At some point, a preponderance of anecdotal evidence is evidence, especially when it's

01:47:27.120 given under oath, especially when it implicates the military-industrial complex, especially when

01:47:34.840 it, when, when it highlights the, what, what really amounts to a fraud on the American public.

01:47:42.240 And this is what, you know, the congressmen are really, really upset about, this whole

01:47:46.140 apparatus, this whole, uh, this special access program, the special access projects where

01:47:52.320 these things are developed, are completely outside of the oversight of the, of the United

01:47:58.100 States government.

01:47:58.920 Right.

01:47:59.080 They use our tax dollars, but they tell our representatives nothing.

01:48:03.940 The president of the United States does not have the need to know.

01:48:06.860 Well, he can't get access to these projects and they're primarily housed in, as I said

01:48:13.240 before, in the, in, they're, they're under the auspices of the, of the aerospace companies,

01:48:17.480 Lockheed Martin and, and, and the others.

01:48:20.160 And so you, you have our money being used to develop something very advanced.

01:48:24.820 Who knows what it's being used to do?

01:48:27.000 Congress has no oversight, none.

01:48:29.300 Yeah.

01:48:29.740 They, they have totally circumvented Congress and therefore the American people.

01:48:33.800 Right.

01:48:34.000 But they're doing it, much of it on our dime.

01:48:36.220 Right.

01:48:36.320 And we wonder where all the, all these trillions of dollars go to that we can't account for.

01:48:39.880 Like, you know, like the, um, like the Pentagon, like the Defense Department's ever going to

01:48:44.980 pass a, an audit.

01:48:46.560 Right.

01:48:46.760 No, because so much of that money is going into these black projects that, that most of

01:48:52.440 the people in Washington have no clue exists.

01:48:54.940 We kind of know it's, to use the, the phrase of a former Secretary of Defense, it's a, a known

01:49:01.520 unknown, right?

01:49:02.780 Like we, we all, we, who do not really know what this is going toward, we all know that

01:49:07.740 these projects exist.

01:49:08.980 We just don't know anything about them.

01:49:10.440 Right.

01:49:10.940 Yeah.

01:49:11.140 And this is, this is, this is the primary reason why the congressmen right now are so

01:49:15.300 exercised about this topic is because it is a intentional circumvention of Congress.

01:49:22.200 Yeah.

01:49:22.800 And they're trying to rein it in and to have oversight over it.

01:49:25.720 And it's this battle.

01:49:27.020 I mean, I, I interface with guys who are in the midst of this battle and it is a battle to

01:49:31.060 get anything out of the government.

01:49:32.660 Now, why disclosure, you're an independent researcher.

01:49:35.240 You can research whatever you want.

01:49:36.980 What, how do you go from researching megaliths in Peru and, uh, the ancient cataclysms and

01:49:45.320 giants and Nephilim to aliens?

01:49:48.940 Is there a connecting thread here?

01:49:50.660 Is there some kind of unity of the theory?

01:49:52.580 There's a very complex thread and, um, I'm not trying to shamelessly plug my book here,

01:49:57.920 but it's very complex.

01:49:59.320 That's why in my book birthright, I start with, with a, in a pre-Adamic context, actually,

01:50:04.040 but I start with the creation of Adam and I worked my way all the way to Armageddon.

01:50:07.700 And within this narrative is everything we've talked about is the, the giants and the, the

01:50:12.780 megaliths and the ancient, the, the, the, uh, antediluvian world, the golden age.

01:50:17.400 And then I tie in the UFO phenomenon, what I call the, the alien presence, transhumanism.

01:50:25.140 All of this is interconnected.

01:50:26.800 It's intertwined.

01:50:28.420 But for me, the explanation is very theological.

01:50:32.000 It's a, there's a theological explanation of, of how all of this intersects and connects.

01:50:37.540 And it's, there's nothing, there's, there's no easy answer to that question, right?

01:50:42.460 So I believe, as I've stated in the beginning, and we've framed the, this conversation in

01:50:48.460 the context of the biblical narrative, right?

01:50:50.880 We're both Christians and we're viewing this from a biblical narrative, from a biblical paradigm.

01:50:57.220 And for me, everything that's unfolding right now in regard to not just the, the UFOs

01:51:04.780 and the alien presence, but as I mentioned, transhumanism, because that's a huge issue

01:51:08.620 right now.

01:51:08.960 The, the notion that human beings will transcend, not just our gender, which we do now, not just

01:51:15.100 certain technical limitations, but our very humanity.

01:51:18.060 Our very humanity.

01:51:18.560 In the words of Yuval Harari, you know, leftist intellectual, he, he wrote a book called

01:51:22.620 Homo Deus.

01:51:23.460 That's right.

01:51:23.920 That Homo sapiens, we're, we are going to, actually C.S. Lewis writes about this in

01:51:27.960 abolition of man many decades prior.

01:51:30.100 We, in a, in an attempt at progress, will actually abolish Homo sapiens to become something

01:51:37.500 greater.

01:51:38.060 That's right.

01:51:38.400 You, you might have a, an echo here from the Bible of a phrase from Genesis, you shall

01:51:43.560 be as gods.

01:51:44.800 You will be like the gods.

01:51:46.900 That's exactly where this is going.

01:51:48.500 All of it, all of it is going that way because we're going to find out that the gods are real

01:51:53.280 at some point in the future.

01:51:54.740 And by the way, I think that this has to do with us landing on Mars as well.

01:51:59.020 This is a whole conversation there as well.

01:52:00.940 Meaning that the present push from Elon Musk to go to Mars.

01:52:05.500 To, to put a man on Mars.

01:52:07.400 Why?

01:52:07.880 Because I think we're going to discover the ruinous, the ruinous remains of a remarkable

01:52:17.640 civilization that existed on Mars, that, that pre-existed us by many thousands of years.

01:52:24.740 And from a theological perspective, I believe that this is the narrative surrounding that

01:52:31.680 is going to be very deceptive.

01:52:34.300 Okay.

01:52:35.160 So it's always difficult for me because this is the most common question I get is how do

01:52:39.740 you connect, you know, the megaliths and stuff to the aliens?

01:52:42.940 Well, I wrote a whole book about it.

01:52:43.980 I mean, it takes a long time to, to, to, to, to, um, connect all of these threads together,

01:52:50.840 to weave all of these threads together.

01:52:54.320 But you're, you're precisely right though, that, you know, we talk about homo deus, mankind

01:52:59.800 is in a, is in a very dangerous, we're engaging in a very dangerous project right now, directed

01:53:04.460 evolution of the human species.

01:53:05.800 And it's really predicated, not on Darwinism, it's predicated on Nietzscheism.

01:53:11.240 Yes.

01:53:12.000 Because, see, Nietzsche, Nietzsche believed in the theory of evolution.

01:53:18.480 He was a proponent of, of the theory of evolution, but he didn't like the mechanism, Darwin's

01:53:23.360 mechanism of, of evolution, natural selection.

01:53:25.740 Random mutations being selected by, yeah.

01:53:28.280 See, Nietzsche believed that evolution had a purpose.

01:53:30.480 This, this is very different than, than Darwinism.

01:53:33.980 Nietzscheism, and this is the driving, this, the impetus is Nietzscheism, not Darwinism right

01:53:39.160 now.

01:53:40.040 Evolution has a purpose according to, to Nietzsche.

01:53:42.360 What is the purpose?

01:53:43.620 To bring forth the overman.

01:53:47.760 Yep.

01:53:48.200 The ubermensch.

01:53:49.520 To bring forth the overman.

01:53:51.840 And that's very different than natural selection that is, as you said, blind and random and it's

01:53:57.740 not going anywhere.

01:53:58.720 Though, in principle, uh, natural selection would improve the race over time, right?

01:54:04.580 Because people who have defective, uh, genetic qualities would be weeded out and they wouldn't

01:54:09.180 reproduce and they, but the, the Nietzschean idea that we're basically going to institute

01:54:15.580 a tyranny of the will that is a triumph of the will, I guess.

01:54:19.020 Will to power, yep.

01:54:19.440 The will to power that, uh, would create the, the superman.

01:54:23.080 And so we, we, it's not, we're not just kind of randomly improving, but we know where we

01:54:28.780 want to go.

01:54:29.340 We're going to do it to ourselves and forget about that old man, the under man.

01:54:34.620 I would say that, that Nietzsche is in many ways the prophet of transhumanism.

01:54:41.520 And a lot of people don't think of it this way.

01:54:43.660 A lot of people have a very laudatory, uh, perception of, of Friedrich Nietzsche.

01:54:47.720 I don't have a very laudatory perception of Friedrich Nietzsche.

01:54:51.460 Um, and I believe that he, he gave us, he gave transhumanists the roadmap because as

01:54:59.520 you rightly say, the impetus of, of Darwinism of evolution by natural selection is natural

01:55:06.560 selection, right?

01:55:07.680 That's the, that's the, of evolution by natural selection is natural selection.

01:55:10.980 It's this blind process.

01:55:12.580 The impetus of, of Nietzschean evolution is the will to power.

01:55:20.920 Even just that's eugenics.

01:55:22.840 I mean, you know, we grew and compares everything to Hitler, but this was going on throughout the

01:55:26.660 West, uh, Margaret Sanger.

01:55:28.440 Hitler was an aficionado of, uh, Nietzsche.

01:55:30.800 Yes.

01:55:31.400 So was Alistair Crowley, who told his, who told his acolytes, read Nietzsche.

01:55:37.480 He said, he said, I regard Nietzsche as a prophet.

01:55:40.160 He lets us do whatever we want.

01:55:41.340 Exactly.

01:55:42.140 The will to power.

01:55:43.100 God is dead.

01:55:44.720 And, but it's all to say, it's one thing, you know, uh, certain parrots on a random island

01:55:50.720 die out and certain parrots go on and their beaks kind of change because of natural forces.

01:55:55.080 It's rather different than Margaret Sanger in America in the early 20th century saying,

01:56:00.520 we're going to kill off these defectives.

01:56:02.260 We're going to kill off this race.

01:56:03.520 We don't like these people.

01:56:04.560 You know, that kind of, uh, conscious eugenics oriented, uh, selection.

01:56:11.100 Uh, I guess one of the big differences is if you're a proponent of nature or kind of doing

01:56:15.920 the pruning, then things will just kind of plot along and we're not going to be responsible.

01:56:20.780 But if you're the one who says, no, I know exactly what the human race should look like

01:56:24.740 and I'm going to exterminate you and I'm get rid of you.

01:56:26.800 And I'm going to put us in with, with our limited stock of reason, we might make some

01:56:31.660 terrible mistakes.

01:56:33.600 No, certainly.

01:56:34.860 I mean, this is the project of directed evolution.

01:56:37.680 So we have a goal in mind, even though we don't articulate it.

01:56:41.340 And that goal is what you mentioned, homo deus.

01:56:45.660 We intend to become the gods that we read about in mythology.

01:56:51.020 We intend to become the gods ourselves.

01:56:53.080 And I'm attempting to try and connect the dots here, um, to answer the question you asked

01:56:59.480 me a while ago.

01:57:00.660 And I believe that we're being guided.

01:57:05.360 We, it's not aimless the direction we're going in.

01:57:08.820 We're going in a very particular direction.

01:57:11.720 And it's precisely what you said.

01:57:13.460 The story is going full circle back to the beginning.

01:57:16.720 You shall be like the gods.

01:57:19.480 So my, the way that I see this playing out in regard to the, the alien question, I believe

01:57:30.060 that we are going to realize, we are going to learn at some point in the future that the

01:57:33.820 gods exist and we will endeavor to become like them.

01:57:38.840 And we will use all of our technological tools in this enterprise.

01:57:46.780 But by doing so, we will lose our humanity.

01:57:51.940 Yep.

01:57:52.100 Lewis says in abolition of man, every, every step forward we find is a step backward.

01:57:57.500 You know, we want to increase our autonomy by, uh, creating this new genetically perfect,

01:58:05.580 uh, future generation of humans.

01:58:08.240 We're doing it now.

01:58:08.940 We're doing it now through, uh, things like IVF and various reproductive technologies.

01:58:12.700 And we can soon select for other traits without question.

01:58:16.120 But he says, but every step forward is a step back because we are exerting this autonomy.

01:58:21.060 But every successive generation of human beings will have been fundamentally transformed without

01:58:27.400 any choice of their own, without any, they'll have lost their autonomy.

01:58:29.940 What are the consequences of this?

01:58:31.260 What are the consequences of us evolving ourselves out of the human species?

01:58:36.460 Well, to the atheist, to the evolutionary atheist, who cares?

01:58:41.580 Like the human being is what?

01:58:43.200 What is it?

01:58:43.720 It's just transitory.

01:58:44.600 This was Nietzsche, by the way.

01:58:46.160 He viewed man as, man as a, as a transitionary species.

01:58:50.800 Mankind is a transitionary species.

01:58:52.720 He's not the end.

01:58:53.840 He's a bridge to an end.

01:58:54.900 That's part of the quote.

01:58:55.920 He's a Brit.

01:58:56.580 I think he's, I think the quote is the great thing about man is he's not an end, but a bridge

01:58:59.780 to an end, but something like that.

01:59:02.040 So that's neat.

01:59:03.380 That's Nietzschean philosophy that, that there's no reason to preserve our humanity.

01:59:07.600 See, it might, one of the, one of the questions that I think is most important today, most,

01:59:12.780 one of the most critical questions that we should be asking ourselves is what does it mean to

01:59:18.240 be a human being?

01:59:19.360 Yeah.

01:59:19.860 And is our humanity worth preserving?

01:59:23.360 Right.

01:59:24.160 I mean, no other generation had to ask that question.

01:59:26.460 Think about it.

01:59:26.900 Our parents didn't have to ask that question.

01:59:28.660 Our, that's a great point.

01:59:29.780 That is something unique in our generation.

01:59:31.820 That's right.

01:59:32.060 Or at least we have a unique technological power, but you know, there are all sorts of

01:59:37.160 wackos in past ages.

01:59:38.500 Maybe we'll turn out to be wackos who, who thought that they could radically change human

01:59:42.460 nature, cure death, whatever.

01:59:43.980 I mean, they didn't have the tools.

01:59:44.940 They didn't have the tools.

01:59:46.540 Perhaps we do have much more substantial tools, but you, you bring up a good point here, which

01:59:51.680 is to the modern secular atheist lib, whatever.

01:59:54.960 Yeah.

01:59:55.140 Great.

01:59:55.440 Human beings, we have all these frailties.

01:59:57.120 So if we could cure the frailties, if we could so transform ourselves that we're not even

02:00:01.460 recognizably human anymore and it's for the better, well, great.

02:00:05.160 That's awesome.

02:00:05.720 I don't want to be some limited human being.

02:00:07.140 I want to be an unlimited new life extension.

02:00:09.800 Yeah.

02:00:09.900 But if you're a Christian, God is a man.

02:00:15.480 Precisely.

02:00:16.000 God becomes man.

02:00:17.980 Precisely.

02:00:18.480 And is fully God and fully man.

02:00:20.380 So what does that mean?

02:00:21.200 He's a kinsman redeemer.

02:00:22.440 Yes.

02:00:23.000 What does that mean if we cease to be men?

02:00:25.120 That means we forfeit our candidacy for salvation in the cross of Christ because he became a man

02:00:31.760 to redeem mankind.

02:00:33.820 So there's a lot at stake here.

02:00:37.540 I mean, if you're a Christian, there's a lot at stake here.

02:00:39.580 Obviously, atheists, whatever, you know, this theological stuff means nothing to them.

02:00:45.200 But if you're a Christian, you need to pay close attention because the gospel of Christ

02:00:49.620 is precisely about the son of God humbling himself to become one of us in order to redeem

02:00:57.520 us as a kinsman redeemer.

02:00:58.780 So there's only one qualification for salvation in the cross of Christ.

02:01:03.580 Only one.

02:01:04.780 You must be human.

02:01:08.180 That's it.

02:01:09.020 You can be forgiven of any sin.

02:01:10.820 The thief on the cross.

02:01:12.240 I mean, you can be forgiven at the last moment of any sin.

02:01:14.880 The grace of God is so large that it extends to everyone at all times.

02:01:26.880 But there is no grace for those who are no longer the sons and daughters of Adam.

02:01:34.760 That is unique right now in our time.

02:01:37.780 And it's unfolding.

02:01:38.680 Again, this is a question that we have to answer.

02:01:41.240 And it's a theological question.

02:01:43.100 It's a philosophical question.

02:01:44.940 What does it mean to be a human being?

02:01:46.860 And is our humanity worth preserving?

02:01:48.700 And that's why I think that the prelude to transhumanism is transgenderism.

02:01:54.940 Yes, certainly.

02:01:55.920 Without question.

02:01:56.400 We're watching.

02:01:57.260 These are the first steps in that direction.

02:02:00.860 When we begin to abandon the definitions, when we begin to abandon those ontological

02:02:07.460 understandings that have been traditional, that have rooted civilization, we open the path.

02:02:15.280 We clear the road for the wholesale biological transformation of Homo sapiens.

02:02:21.060 And to an earlier point you made, the premise, the anthropological premise of transgenderism is that our true identities don't really have anything to do with our bodies.

02:02:33.440 That actually our true identities are potentially disembodied spirits.

02:02:37.500 That's right.

02:02:37.760 So I can, you know, I got the body of a man, but my true identity is a woman.

02:02:42.320 What does that mean?

02:02:42.940 The traditional understanding is that, you know, I'm a man, I'm my body, but I'm also my soul.

02:02:48.220 And my soul is the substantial form of my body.

02:02:50.100 And my soul actually makes sense of the matter of my body.

02:02:54.200 The transgender idea is a fundamentally different idea.

02:02:56.920 And I don't know, with everything you've been saying about disembodied spirits, I don't think I would want that to be my true identity.

02:03:02.740 No, no.

02:03:03.580 I mean, the stakes are much higher than people realize in the game that's afoot right now.

02:03:09.080 See, there was a suite of technologies that have been under development for decades now, especially the last couple of decades.

02:03:15.400 We are right now, and we are in what is known as the hybrid age, what futurists and technologists refer to as the hybrid age.

02:03:22.400 The reason why they call it the hybrid age is because there are many different technologies from different streams, but there are four primary technologies that we can identify.

02:03:31.060 These are called the GRIN technologies, genetics, robotics, artificial intelligence, and nanotechnology.

02:03:36.120 There are many more, but these are like the four pillars of the current technological advancement.

02:03:42.620 And they call this the hybrid age because these technologies, these four and others, are like individual streams.

02:03:48.620 They've all been developing as individual streams, but now they're converging.

02:03:52.400 Into a rushing river.

02:03:53.980 For example, we're developing robotics over here.

02:03:57.120 We're developing artificial intelligence over here.

02:03:58.980 What happens when we put the two together?

02:04:01.540 Right?

02:04:01.980 That's a very interesting question, and it's happening.

02:04:05.500 Well, we see the artificial intelligence.

02:04:07.440 We see the robotics.

02:04:08.220 But the same pace is afoot in regard to the biological transformation of the human species.

02:04:16.800 It's not as evident in the public, but the genetic revolution is coming.

02:04:21.220 It is coming.

02:04:23.000 Yeah, of course.

02:04:23.760 We are going to be able to incorporate technology into our bodies.

02:04:27.420 We're going to become, in the future, cybernetic beings.

02:04:30.620 And ultimately, we're going to be able to modify the human genome in radical ways.

02:04:36.200 We can already do it in modest ways.

02:04:38.100 In modest ways.

02:04:38.880 We can use CRISPR technology to make little snips.

02:04:41.420 But, you know, in 2010, DARPA was what had a project called Human Artificial Chromosomes.

02:04:49.840 Hacks.

02:04:50.760 Human Artificial Chromosomes.

02:04:51.740 I can't remember the exact long title of the project.

02:04:54.240 But that was basically it.

02:04:55.400 Human Artificial Chromosomes.

02:04:57.940 And what they wanted to do was to create a...

02:05:00.220 And this was like 10 years ago, 12 years ago.

02:05:02.940 They wanted to create a platform.

02:05:04.880 Not make little snips with CRISPR-Cas-5, like we've been doing, right?

02:05:09.440 No.

02:05:09.980 They said, forget about these little tiny modifications.

02:05:13.880 Let's create a platform, an artificial chromosome that we can use to basically upgrade the human

02:05:25.200 species continuously through this.

02:05:27.100 Because if you have an artificial chromosome, you can load it up with all kinds of genetic

02:05:30.700 information and have that be integrated into your genome, right?

02:05:35.200 That was the idea.

02:05:35.940 That's what the paper said.

02:05:37.320 And it specified this is for human beings.

02:05:39.780 Now, why would DARPA be interested in that?

02:05:41.500 Super soldiers.

02:05:42.480 Yeah.

02:05:42.660 Remember that Vladimir Putin some years ago, when they were asking him about nuclear warheads

02:05:46.600 and nuclear war.

02:05:47.480 Remember what he said?

02:05:48.600 There was a group of college kids asking him questions.

02:05:51.700 He said, yeah, that's concerning.

02:05:53.460 But I'm worried about something else that nobody's talking about.

02:05:56.500 Super soldiers.

02:05:59.060 That caught my attention.

02:06:00.360 In fact, I put it in my book.

02:06:01.540 That caught my attention.

02:06:03.620 Vladimir Putin's more worried about super soldiers than nuclear warheads.

02:06:09.420 Well, he must know something we don't.

02:06:11.200 He must understand the pace at which this technological arm race is moving right now.

02:06:17.220 Namely, the development of genetically and cybernetically enhanced super soldiers.

02:06:23.220 Well, that technology, we all know that technology that's developed under the purview of the military

02:06:28.400 industrial complex, eventually, in many cases, makes its way to the commercial sector.

02:06:34.340 Yeah, yeah.

02:06:34.920 You know, the military industrial complex is always going to stay apace of what's in the

02:06:39.920 commercial sector.

02:06:40.580 But we're going to get it eventually.

02:06:42.200 So everybody is consumed with artificial intelligence right now, and rightly so, because it is accelerating.

02:06:48.460 And it's pretty impressive.

02:06:49.720 It's extremely impressive.

02:06:51.000 And like I said, when they combine that with the robots, which they're already doing, we're

02:06:54.460 going to have robots policing our streets instead of human beings.

02:06:57.120 We're going to have robots fighting wars, not just drones.

02:06:59.700 I mean, it's going to be crazy.

02:07:01.820 And that's evident.

02:07:03.040 That's happening in the public space.

02:07:04.860 But what's happening privately is the potential, the development of the tools to literally remake

02:07:14.040 our own biology.

02:07:15.700 And this gets, as we've been saying, exceedingly theological.

02:07:20.460 You know, again, what does it mean to be a human being?

02:07:22.820 And is our humanity worth preserving?

02:07:24.780 Well, from a biblical perspective, the answer is we were created in the image of God.

02:07:32.740 And if we lose our humanity, we're going to lose something very important, something

02:07:38.820 that is directly related to the image of God.

02:07:42.800 And that is, I would contend, and I do in my book, dominion of the earth.

02:07:48.520 Because I believe that dominion of planet earth is the birthright of Adam and his offspring.

02:07:52.660 In fact, this is what the Bible says, that God gave Adam dominion over the earth and over

02:08:00.460 all life on earth.

02:08:02.220 And that dominion, the seal of that dominion is the image that we bear, the image of God.

02:08:07.260 And I believe there's an effort underway, and you can call it a demonic effort, a satanic

02:08:11.880 effort, to steal our birthright.

02:08:16.260 And it's the Jacob and Esau story.

02:08:20.040 It's to get us to sell our birthright for a bowl of stew, to give away our humanity for

02:08:25.220 what?

02:08:25.620 Life extension.

02:08:27.000 Yeah.

02:08:27.860 The neural link, interfacing with the internet at the speed of...

02:08:31.240 It's a great way to put it.

02:08:32.780 You know, I could live another few decades, or I could do this with you.

02:08:35.220 Well, what are you going to do when everyone's...

02:08:36.480 It's a bowl of porridge.

02:08:37.280 You're selling your birthright for...

02:08:37.980 That's right.

02:08:38.320 You're selling your humanity for this.

02:08:41.680 And what are you going to do?

02:08:43.240 What are your kids going to do?

02:08:44.900 I have five boys.

02:08:45.760 What are my kids going to do when all of their colleagues, 15 years down the road, are interfacing

02:08:52.140 with the internet at the speed of thought?

02:08:55.920 Because they have technological implants.

02:08:58.520 Yeah.

02:08:59.800 See, it's going to get real, really fast for our kids.

02:09:02.860 Because it's one thing...

02:09:04.340 Think of it as just a more advanced way of saying, well, look, they're going to develop

02:09:09.060 this thing.

02:09:09.540 You and I are hanging out.

02:09:10.460 It's the 1980s.

02:09:12.040 I say, you know, in about 20 years, 25 years, they're going to create this phone that can

02:09:17.540 do, like, everything.

02:09:19.080 You know, you can watch any show, read any book.

02:09:22.040 You can message people.

02:09:24.280 There's going to be this thing called social media.

02:09:26.400 Yeah.

02:09:26.900 You can access your social media.

02:09:28.480 There's also going to be this thing called social media.

02:09:29.960 You can do all that.

02:09:30.720 And it's going to be really bad, actually.

02:09:32.440 And it's mostly just going to be temptation and consumerism and porn.

02:09:36.200 And it's going to really mess up your...

02:09:37.840 You can do some cool things on it, but it's going to be really dangerous.

02:09:40.460 And you would say, well, even if I will use that as an adult, I would never let my kids

02:09:46.120 use that.

02:09:46.260 That's right.

02:09:46.800 But then, you know, every other kid's using it.

02:09:48.640 And you kind of need it to call your kid if he's at school or if he's on...

02:09:52.060 You need to make transactions.

02:09:53.360 You need it to book airline tickets.

02:09:54.720 Imagine trying to live in a world without a phone.

02:09:59.000 It's virtually impossible.

02:10:00.180 It's virtually impossible.

02:10:01.260 Or some kind of computer.

02:10:02.300 It's virtually impossible.

02:10:03.680 It's going to be like that.

02:10:04.900 That's homo deus.

02:10:06.140 Okay?

02:10:06.680 So guess what?

02:10:08.980 If you have homo deus and you have everybody self-evolving into homo deus, what happens

02:10:14.380 to the people who choose not to?

02:10:15.980 Right.

02:10:16.700 Right.

02:10:16.860 That's why I describe the homo deus, this faction, I call them the neo-humans that are

02:10:21.940 coming, the new humans.

02:10:23.480 And who are we?

02:10:24.660 These old-fashioned humans who refuse to evolve?

02:10:28.300 We're the neo-humans.

02:10:29.440 We're the Neanderthalic humans.

02:10:32.480 We refuse to evolve.

02:10:34.080 We're, you know, the refuse of humanity.

02:10:36.260 I mean, that gap right now between those who wield technology and those who don't, there's

02:10:41.480 almost no gap.

02:10:42.280 Everybody is using technology because it's not that invasive yet.

02:10:45.040 It's dangerous, you know, but it's not that invasive yet.

02:10:48.320 But that gap is going to open as we move forward because that technology that you hold in your

02:10:52.940 hand is going into your brain.

02:10:55.060 Yeah, yeah.

02:10:55.600 It's going into the brain.

02:10:57.280 There is no, just as assuredly as Elon Musk is going to put a man on Mars, Neuralink is going

02:11:05.640 in the brains of millions of people or something equivalent to that because interfacing with

02:11:10.940 the internet at the speed of thought, you could instantly speak another language.

02:11:14.500 Right.

02:11:15.220 It's going to give human beings godlike powers.

02:11:17.540 And that's just one aspect.

02:11:18.820 That's just the artificial intelligence aspect in cybernetics.

02:11:21.840 Now add in the genetics, the genetic revolution that's coming.

02:11:25.360 We're going to be able to upgrade our genome artificially.

02:11:29.780 You know, I don't have any problem with gene therapy where if I have a broken gene and my

02:11:35.400 genome, it's a human gene that's malfunctioned.

02:11:37.880 So they go and they grab a gene that's got the correct code.

02:11:40.900 It's a human gene.

02:11:41.800 And then they correct my code.

02:11:43.460 Well, this is, by the way, the traditional Christian understanding of how to make sense

02:11:46.740 of these technologies is if we are repairing an injury, if we are taking a defect and repairing

02:11:54.960 it, we have every right and in some cases obligation to help to heal people.

02:11:59.940 But that's not what, this is going beyond humanity.

02:12:03.720 This isn't repairing something that has been broken in this fallen world.

02:12:07.200 This is making something new.

02:12:10.560 That's a totally different moral calculation.

02:12:13.280 Completely different.

02:12:13.980 Completely different.

02:12:14.540 Because in the process, you lose your humanity.

02:12:16.400 Right.

02:12:16.820 You lose your humanity.

02:12:18.060 Now, I have to ask you before I let you go.

02:12:21.840 I want to do another three hours here.

02:12:24.360 I do too.

02:12:25.480 What is it?

02:12:26.020 With another cigar.

02:12:26.780 That's right.

02:12:27.400 By the way, let me say, that, sir, is a fantastic cigar.

02:12:31.400 Come on.

02:12:31.700 Get out of here.

02:12:32.340 I am a cigar smoker.

02:12:34.320 This is a fantastic cigar.

02:12:35.300 Listen, I could tell.

02:12:36.360 You were the kind of guy who smoked.

02:12:37.560 Well, thank you.

02:12:38.160 I'm glad you enjoyed it.

02:12:39.720 What is next for you?

02:12:41.280 Which is to say, I guess, what's going to be the topic of our next conversation when

02:12:44.420 you come back?

02:12:45.180 What are you doing now?

02:12:45.840 I don't know.

02:12:45.860 I mean, there's a lot more to say about the alien question.

02:12:47.700 I love to talk about alien abduction.

02:12:49.620 That's a deep, dark hole.

02:12:53.660 That's a whole separate conversation.

02:12:55.660 But there's a lot we could talk about.

02:12:57.120 Well, what are you doing next?

02:12:58.320 Where do you go from here?

02:12:59.920 I am in next week.

02:13:01.160 I'll be in Peru.

02:13:02.600 I'm heading to Peru.

02:13:04.340 I'm going on an expedition.

02:13:05.880 I'm also involved in a film project.

02:13:09.440 But I'm going to be going to explore, to investigate these potential new megaliths that have been

02:13:15.440 discovered in Peru.

02:13:16.140 Peru.

02:13:17.880 I don't know yet if they're artificial or naturally occurring.

02:13:21.520 If they're artificial, in other words, if they're man-made, then it could be one of

02:13:24.360 the most amazing, important discoveries in a century in regard to archaeological discoveries

02:13:32.820 in Peru.

02:13:33.460 Now, I didn't discover them.

02:13:35.380 Somebody else, it's in a village.

02:13:37.140 It's on the outskirts of a village.

02:13:38.800 The villagers have known about it.

02:13:40.740 It's just come to light and has been brought to my attention.

02:13:43.440 So I'm going to go down there and investigate the situation.

02:13:46.680 To bring all the threads together, when you're down there, can you look into that thing that

02:13:50.420 went viral on social media a few years ago down in Latin America where they had a little,

02:13:55.120 it looked like a papier-mâché ET, and they said it was an alien?

02:13:57.740 That's precisely what I was about to say.

02:13:59.320 So after I...

02:13:59.920 Are you really going to look into that?

02:14:00.940 After I investigate the megaliths, I'm actually going over to Ica, and I'm going to go to

02:14:07.040 the University of Ica, and I'm going to be meeting with one of the curators of the museum

02:14:11.700 there, and they have in their possession three what they call tridactyl being mummies.

02:14:19.060 And the reason why they call them tridactyl beings is most people are familiar with the

02:14:22.320 little mummies that Jaime Masson popularized, was it last year or the year before?

02:14:27.860 That's the thing that looks like a papier-mâché ET.

02:14:29.640 That's right, and I didn't buy it.

02:14:31.380 I don't know about you.

02:14:31.780 So I believe that those, the little alien mummies, I think they are legitimate artifacts, but

02:14:40.420 they're not, they were never living beings.

02:14:42.740 Okay.

02:14:43.100 Okay, so I think that they're ancient dolls of some kind created with composite of different

02:14:48.700 animals.

02:14:49.800 So I think they're ancient, and they're very interesting artifacts.

02:14:53.320 I could be wrong about that.

02:14:54.480 It's not just an opus.

02:14:54.980 I could be wrong about that, but I don't believe that they were living, breathing beings.

02:14:58.220 Could be wrong about that.

02:14:59.640 That's just my assessment.

02:15:00.820 I did live in Peru for 10 years.

02:15:02.080 So I have an idea of how things go down there with regard to fake artifacts.

02:15:06.780 However, however, there are these other mummies, and they're not little.

02:15:12.240 They're large.

02:15:12.900 They're five, nine, six foot tall, but they're in the fetal position.

02:15:16.360 They've been featured on Gaia TV and other places.

02:15:18.760 And I've been sort of sitting back in the background waiting for definitive data that you can determine

02:15:28.060 one way or the other if these are actually living, breathing beings.

02:15:30.620 And the data looks really strong.

02:15:34.000 Now, do I believe that they were living, breathing, real beings?

02:15:38.180 I don't know.

02:15:39.080 I'm on the fence.

02:15:39.660 I'm 50-50.

02:15:40.440 Hence, my desire to go and get up close to these things and investigate them.

02:15:45.600 However, if they are or were at one time living biological beings, that rewrites history.

02:15:55.920 They have three fingers, three long fingers and toes.

02:15:59.060 As I said, they're in the fetal position.

02:16:00.540 They're mummified.

02:16:01.180 They're exquisitely preserved.

02:16:02.940 They have slightly elongated skulls, overly large eye sockets, very, very small noses.

02:16:08.120 They look alien in every sense of the word.

02:16:11.140 And there are more than three of them.

02:16:13.460 And I've been corresponding with one of the gentlemen, if not the only gentleman who discovered them.

02:16:20.500 He's a French explorer.

02:16:23.500 I'm fascinated.

02:16:24.960 I'm not convinced, but I am highly intrigued.

02:16:28.160 So, I'm going to be looking at the megaliths, and then I'm going to be flying over to the desert to take a look at these mummies.

02:16:35.120 And, you know, there's some other things we're doing there as well.

02:16:38.440 But those are the two primary projects in this upcoming trip.

02:16:43.820 All right.

02:16:44.880 I'm not saying you've convinced me on aliens or anything like that.

02:16:47.660 You have convinced me.

02:16:49.440 You have to come back and tell me.

02:16:52.300 I will come back.

02:16:52.680 The alien abductions and about the three-fingered, long-headed things that you're about to go through.

02:16:57.940 We'll have to go see in Peru.

02:16:58.800 We'll have to get Matt Walsh sitting here.

02:17:00.240 We'll have to have a...

02:17:00.780 No, I'm not letting him come anywhere near this and brag to try to get me to be a pro-alien guy.

02:17:06.200 But I at least want to hear about it.

02:17:09.920 Timothy Albarino.

02:17:10.920 Book is birthright.

02:17:11.980 Go get the book.

02:17:13.500 Thank you.

02:17:14.100 Thank you.

02:17:14.560 I want to do ten more hours right.

02:17:16.200 I know we can't.

02:17:17.860 I'll look forward to the next one.

02:17:19.480 Definitely.

02:17:19.800 Definitely.

02:17:19.940 Thank you.

The Michael Knowles Show - March 29, 2025

＂Lost Technology, Nephilim, & The Mainstream Lies＂ Michael & The Rogue Archaeologist ｜ Tim Alberino

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