The Michael Knowles Show - Michael Knowles DEBATES Two Liberals ｜ Bar Fight ft. Adam Mockler & Cecilia Rae

00:00:00.000 Trump is Putin's bitch.

00:00:01.640 You are anti-American.

00:00:02.820 No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:00:03.820 Let me talk.

00:00:04.780 Most of the illegals are asylum seekers or are they economic rights?

00:00:07.760 Wait, no.

00:00:08.260 Wait, wait, wait.

00:00:08.740 Which are they?

00:00:09.280 Wait, wait, listen to what you just said.

00:00:10.080 I want to help you get laid.

00:00:12.720 Not me, lay you.

00:00:13.560 Are you pro-incel?

00:00:14.540 No.

00:00:18.820 Well, welcome to Bar Fight.

00:00:21.220 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:00:21.960 I'm joined tonight by two guests.

00:00:24.440 Wow, real sophisticated answer.

00:00:26.000 I know.

00:00:26.420 You would know him from CNN if anyone ever watched.

00:00:29.240 Adam Mockler.

00:00:30.500 Well, dude, you've got to answer my questions a little better.

00:00:32.080 Just because you're wrong about something doesn't mean it's not as convenient.

00:00:35.320 You know what?

00:00:35.900 You should get out of my country.

00:00:37.440 They want more deportations.

00:00:38.540 I'm also joined.

00:00:39.640 One of the most reasonable people ever to appear on Jubilee.

00:00:43.320 That would be Cecilia Ray.

00:00:49.260 This is how it works.

00:00:51.420 We have each brought three topics to the table.

00:00:54.800 The audience chooses the topics.

00:00:56.460 We will duke it out.

00:00:57.440 Then our highly sober audience, I can already tell how sober you are, you can go up to the

00:01:02.960 microphones to pick a fight with any of us.

00:01:05.200 If you want to fight me, you go to the blue microphone.

00:01:07.940 If you want to fight my guests, you go to the red microphone.

00:01:11.300 Let's get into it.

00:01:13.300 Ceci, ladies first.

00:01:14.700 Okay.

00:01:14.960 The big, beautiful bill is the ugliest piece of legislation written for the American people.

00:01:19.000 Okay, Adam.

00:01:22.280 Trump is putting Russia first before America first when it comes to the Ukraine war.

00:01:26.600 He's putting Russia first.

00:01:27.920 Yep.

00:01:28.120 Okay.

00:01:29.000 Nope.

00:01:29.480 You guys can boo all you want.

00:01:30.560 It's true.

00:01:31.420 Okay.

00:01:31.900 Yep.

00:01:32.480 My topic is the only problem with Trump's deportations is we need more of them.

00:01:38.060 This feels a little bit skewed.

00:01:41.660 It seems a little bit all done.

00:01:44.200 I thought Nashville was a blue city.

00:01:45.860 I don't know.

00:01:46.480 The whole country's turned red, though.

00:01:48.060 Mr. Davies, who won?

00:01:50.480 Looks like the people want more deportations.

00:01:52.580 They want more deportations.

00:01:53.880 Let's hear it, Michael.

00:01:54.740 All right.

00:01:55.140 The deportations have been great thus far.

00:01:59.100 We've gotten rid of lots of criminals.

00:02:01.140 We've gotten rid of lots of face-tattooed Satan-worshipping gangsters.

00:02:04.440 I think it's all really good.

00:02:05.900 We have cut crossings over the border down to basically nothing.

00:02:10.340 In May, it was literally nothing.

00:02:11.920 Not one man apprehended.

00:02:13.360 Historic lows since then.

00:02:15.020 So that's all been great.

00:02:16.100 Self-deportations have been even better.

00:02:18.180 2.1 million immigrants have deported foreign-born in just the last seven months.

00:02:23.340 1.6 million of them illegal.

00:02:25.180 That's 10% probably of the illegal alien average.

00:02:28.120 The only problem is if we want to improve our crime statistics, if we want to improve

00:02:32.860 safety, and if we want to improve drains on our public welfare systems, we need to deport

00:02:38.000 more.

00:02:38.860 No, you say no.

00:02:40.100 Why?

00:02:40.800 Am I kind of start?

00:02:42.300 I'll go.

00:02:42.760 I say ladies first.

00:02:43.800 Yeah, I'll go.

00:02:44.540 Okay.

00:02:44.840 So here's the thing with the deportations is that you look at it through three different

00:02:49.140 lenses.

00:02:49.560 The first lens you could look at it through is the money lens, right?

00:02:52.300 Like the billionaire lens where they pay $89 billion in taxes while Tesla and Amazon pay

00:03:00.280 zero.

00:03:00.700 So we're going to toss out $89 billion, but we don't know what, you know?

00:03:03.940 And then the second lens you could look at it through is, oh, they're all criminals.

00:03:06.940 But in reality, a study done by the Justice Department in 2021 showed us that American-born

00:03:12.560 citizens are 10 times more likely to be incarcerated for a weapons charge.

00:03:18.220 Five times more likely for violent crime, two times more likely for drug offenses, and

00:03:22.820 two times more likely for property crime over documented and undocumented immigrants.

00:03:28.400 And it's because when they come here, they have more to lose than we do.

00:03:31.360 I'd rather have people here that are willing to cross thousands of miles with just the clothes

00:03:36.280 on their back because they really want to be here.

00:03:39.080 And we've seen our GDP has crashed into the negative.

00:03:41.780 If all these farm jobs that you guys all say, oh, I'm going to go, they took our job, they're

00:03:46.540 empty.

00:03:46.980 Why is no one taking them?

00:03:48.860 What do y'all, what's going on?

00:03:50.240 Okay.

00:03:51.060 Adam, do you agree?

00:03:52.760 I have my own framing that I want to approach this with.

00:03:54.980 Do you want to respond or can I go?

00:03:56.600 Sure.

00:03:56.920 So you mentioned that the non-illegals, the citizens commit far higher crime.

00:04:03.840 That's a little strange because when you look at the federal docket for just 2024, almost

00:04:08.620 one third of cases on the federal docket are non-citizens.

00:04:12.260 That's much, much higher than their share of the population, which is in the single digits,

00:04:15.360 probably about 5% for illegal aliens alone.

00:04:17.920 Then if you look at the prison population, BOP, 15% of inmates are non-citizens, much,

00:04:25.160 much higher than their share of the population, which is 4%.

00:04:27.760 Then if you look at just the costs to the cities, I can go to New York, my old hometown.

00:04:34.940 The New York comptroller showed that they were spending $1.5 billion in 2023 on the illegal

00:04:42.060 aliens who were there.

00:04:42.900 That number doubled the following year, 2024 to $3 billion.

00:04:45.780 It's over $3 billion this year.

00:04:48.140 So when you say this is a net positive for the economy, they're contributing so much more

00:04:51.840 than the billionaires.

00:04:52.480 When you say they're no good for crime, I don't know.

00:04:56.340 I look at the numbers from, I look at the numbers out of New York.

00:04:59.380 I look at the numbers out of the CBO.

00:05:01.020 I look at the numbers out of the National Academies of Science.

00:05:02.820 And I say, they're all contradicting you.

00:05:05.360 No, your study, I don't ever trust your statistics.

00:05:08.680 Can I hop in real quick?

00:05:09.520 Go for it.

00:05:09.960 Okay.

00:05:10.240 So I'm going to take a little bit of a different approach when it comes to this.

00:05:12.580 I want to start off with the fundamental idea.

00:05:14.360 Everybody in here agrees that if somebody is here illegally and they commit crimes, get them

00:05:18.200 the out of here, right?

00:05:19.140 Yes.

00:05:19.380 Get them the hell out of here.

00:05:20.860 Yeah.

00:05:21.140 If somebody is here, listen.

00:05:23.700 Yeah.

00:05:23.980 Did you just hear what you said if they're here illegally?

00:05:26.020 No.

00:05:26.240 No.

00:05:26.920 Not all of them.

00:05:27.720 You said if they're here illegally.

00:05:29.100 Michael.

00:05:29.440 Not all of them.

00:05:30.360 Michael, is there a difference between a civil and a criminal violation?

00:05:33.480 Well, uh...

00:05:34.200 Wait.

00:05:34.400 Is crossing the border illegally a civil or a criminal violation?

00:05:37.200 It depends on the case, but it can be a civil violation.

00:05:39.220 It can be a civil violation.

00:05:40.300 So it's not inherently illegal.

00:05:41.820 So can I just...

00:05:42.660 It can be a civil violation.

00:05:43.420 Okay.

00:05:43.640 So let's all start off with the fundamental idea that if somebody is here illegally...

00:05:47.020 No, it's not.

00:05:47.620 It is a civil violation.

00:05:48.640 Well, uh...

00:05:49.080 It is not a criminal...

00:05:49.980 What does illegal mean?

00:05:50.880 Criminals.

00:05:51.320 What does illegal refer to or refer to the law?

00:05:53.580 Okay.

00:05:53.860 So let me just get into this.

00:05:56.240 I can start with the fundamental idea that if somebody is here illegally and they commit

00:05:59.080 crimes, they should be sent to another country's prison.

00:06:01.200 And I'm a libtard.

00:06:02.020 By all standards, I'm a libtard and I believe that.

00:06:04.540 But that is not what the Trump administration is prioritizing.

00:06:06.960 They have reallocated funds meant for the deportation of criminals towards the deportation

00:06:11.620 of farm workers, the deportation of people going to the courthouse.

00:06:15.460 Trump made a true social post.

00:06:17.200 Listen, Trump made a true social post where he said, all the great farmers of Iowa just

00:06:22.060 called me and said, I am deporting too many of their...

00:06:24.020 Did that happen?

00:06:24.720 Did he make that true social post?

00:06:25.740 Yeah, unfortunately, he stopped deporting them, but he should have continued deporting

00:06:29.040 them.

00:06:29.180 So your issue right here is that you always say liberals are taking these 80-20 positions

00:06:32.900 and you're not quite there, but you're getting closer to the 80-20 position than we

00:06:36.240 are.

00:06:36.780 70% of Americans want a legal pathway for people who are here contributing to the country.

00:06:41.680 And what Donald Trump is doing, one more point, what Donald Trump is doing is criminalizing

00:06:44.960 asylum en masse and prioritizing the deportation of farm workers and other people.

00:06:50.220 Asylum Adam, most of the illegals are asylum seekers or are they economic migrants?

00:06:53.980 Wait, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, listen to what you just said.

00:06:56.320 Most of the illegals are asylum seekers.

00:06:58.600 Asylum seeking is not illegal, Michael.

00:07:00.320 No, it's not.

00:07:00.640 Is asylum seeking illegal?

00:07:02.340 That's a pathway.

00:07:03.100 The people that we would call illegal aliens, non-citizens in the United States who aren't

00:07:08.300 on a green card, who are not here on a visa, are most of them asylum seekers or are they

00:07:12.880 economic migrants?

00:07:13.420 What percent of the people deported?

00:07:14.220 You're not going to answer that question because you know the answer.

00:07:16.280 Wait, no, no.

00:07:16.660 What percent of the people deported have had criminal violations?

00:07:19.540 It's only 30 to 40 percent.

00:07:20.780 So 60 percent of the people deported have no criminal violations.

00:07:24.060 Guys, they're not rounding up.

00:07:25.460 Can I test the audience?

00:07:27.120 Can I can I test you guys?

00:07:29.360 If somebody comes over here and seeks asylum and what they try to do is build a better life,

00:07:33.380 build a family and they're working on a farm, do you guys think there should be a path to

00:07:36.780 citizenship to become an American?

00:07:39.780 That is the antithesis of what America stands for.

00:07:42.320 You guys are anti-American then.

00:07:43.780 Yeah, you are.

00:07:44.560 You are anti-American.

00:07:45.560 Can you imagine going to a Nashville bar talking to great patriots and saying you're anti-American?

00:07:50.060 That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

00:07:51.660 America was built off of immigrate.

00:07:53.360 Yeah.

00:07:54.060 Hold on.

00:07:55.000 Adam, you can finish your point.

00:07:56.240 Then we got some questions.

00:07:56.740 Right here.

00:07:57.420 Okay.

00:07:57.780 Okay.

00:07:58.260 To the panel.

00:07:59.320 Americans will work every single job.

00:08:02.020 They just want to be paid a wage that's worth it and treated well.

00:08:05.300 The only reason.

00:08:06.640 Do not let me.

00:08:07.300 Let me talk.

00:08:08.300 The only reason that we have a legal immigration and so much legal immigration is because the

00:08:14.660 corporate lobby wants cheap labor and they can treat their workers like shit.

00:08:20.060 Hey, hold on.

00:08:21.200 I want to make a correction.

00:08:22.360 I want to make a correction.

00:08:23.740 The other reason is that Democrats want a permanent electoral majority.

00:08:27.460 They want an electorate where they do not have to campaign.

00:08:31.220 They don't need good ideas.

00:08:32.400 They will just win every single election because of the people they imported.

00:08:36.240 That's funny because Latinos went red.

00:08:38.480 Latinos went closer to being red this election.

00:08:40.620 So it's kind of funny.

00:08:41.200 Do you think, do you think that once we deport everyone, that suddenly Congress is going

00:08:45.840 to raise minimum wage?

00:08:47.680 It's not about the minimum wage.

00:08:49.160 It's about labor economics.

00:08:50.220 No, and also usually blaming the corporate men who are taking advantage and exploiting

00:08:56.400 them.

00:08:57.280 That guy is seriously vying for a VIP table spot.

00:09:00.600 I'm going to say something.

00:09:02.900 No, I want to say one more thing right now.

00:09:07.740 So this whole mass deportation thing, first off, they're not going to raise minimum wage

00:09:12.140 for you because everyone's fine.

00:09:12.920 I'm not asking you to do that.

00:09:13.980 I'm not asking you to do that.

00:09:15.620 I think what he's saying is because-

00:09:16.960 It's not about the minimum wage.

00:09:18.320 Right.

00:09:18.680 Because there are pressures on the labor market when you flood it with a local-

00:09:22.100 I'm a contractor.

00:09:22.920 I don't blame the men at the top who are hiring and exploiting them.

00:09:27.580 That's why.

00:09:28.220 Because they're available.

00:09:29.240 That is, that's the market.

00:09:30.740 Also, this whole mass deportation thing, just so everyone knows, it is all to fuel the racism

00:09:35.480 in this country.

00:09:36.160 No, it's not.

00:09:36.640 No, it's not.

00:09:37.620 When in reality, stop.

00:09:40.220 In reality, the only color, the only color that matters in this country is green.

00:09:44.740 Are you green enough?

00:09:45.820 And 99% of us are not.

00:09:47.480 So you're not going to get a pass unless you can pay for it.

00:09:50.800 Yep.

00:09:50.960 But, yeah, but-

00:09:52.900 Money!

00:09:53.520 But the, but to our earlier point, if that were true, though, Ceci, the illegal aliens

00:09:58.140 are a drain on resources at the state and local level.

00:10:00.800 They're not.

00:10:01.600 They're not.

00:10:01.940 According to the CBO, they're not.

00:10:04.360 They're not.

00:10:05.460 Oh, the CBO that you guys don't trust when it's convenient for you?

00:10:07.880 But also according to the National Academies of Science?

00:10:08.820 Wait, do you trust the CBO on the big, beautiful bill?

00:10:10.460 Well, I certainly trust it more than Adam Mockler.

00:10:12.600 Do you, do you, do you believe the CBO or no?

00:10:15.080 Listen, if we enacted the mass deportation that Donald Trump wants over the next decade,

00:10:19.380 $900 billion would increase the deficit, 3.3% of our GDP would be hopped off.

00:10:25.600 Okay, wait.

00:10:26.160 Who pays for their healthcare?

00:10:26.920 Wait, can I ask you a question?

00:10:28.380 Can I ask you a question?

00:10:30.020 Would you be okay with people being here, immigrating here?

00:10:33.500 Probably not, no.

00:10:34.560 Listen.

00:10:35.480 Probably not.

00:10:36.280 Can I ask you why?

00:10:37.840 So you're just un-American.

00:10:39.160 Wait, wait, I just want to ask-

00:10:39.960 So you're just un-American.

00:10:40.920 Wait, but can I, I just want to ask the audience.

00:10:43.400 You weren't born here?

00:10:44.380 No.

00:10:44.720 And you don't want people to immigrate here?

00:10:46.080 Because we have more than enough.

00:10:47.080 Yeah, we have more than enough.

00:10:48.220 Oh, man, you know what?

00:10:49.680 You should get out of my country.

00:10:50.680 Are you gay and you hate gay people, too?

00:10:51.780 It's my country, too.

00:10:52.880 You weren't born here.

00:10:53.640 That doesn't matter.

00:10:54.140 Right?

00:10:54.420 That's the mindset.

00:10:55.880 No, it's not.

00:10:56.800 I want to do what's best for you.

00:10:57.820 I don't see any countries here today, now.

00:10:59.300 That's the mindset, and you're not from here.

00:11:00.800 That's okay.

00:11:02.120 You're a hypocrite.

00:11:03.400 You're a hypocrite.

00:11:04.320 I don't think it's hypocritical to come to a country-

00:11:06.260 It's 100% hypocritical.

00:11:07.520 And then say, I don't know, that no one else is allowed after me.

00:11:09.480 I don't really want this guy in my country.

00:11:10.920 I don't know.

00:11:11.280 I do.

00:11:11.780 I want to elect that guy to, I don't know, a senator or something.

00:11:14.880 I definitely want that guy.

00:11:15.760 You're also a little brown.

00:11:17.120 Jesus.

00:11:17.500 You say he looks brown?

00:11:19.280 That's what they're doing if you look the wrong skin color.

00:11:22.100 If you have the wrong tattoos, they're just picking you up.

00:11:24.360 All right.

00:11:24.660 Do we have another question back there?

00:11:26.240 Wait.

00:11:26.540 I have a question.

00:11:27.320 I have a question.

00:11:28.360 Are you guys okay with ICE racially profiling?

00:11:32.440 Oh, so we got a bunch of racists in the audience.

00:11:34.400 Well, hold on.

00:11:35.000 Are you okay with ICE racially profiling?

00:11:36.840 I think if ICE is confronted with a little Norwegian grandma and a guy named Jose who doesn't speak a lick of English,

00:11:43.640 and they're trying to pick up illegals, probably go for Jose, right?

00:11:47.140 That's not what the racial profiling that they're doing?

00:11:49.160 Technically, that's probably racial profiling.

00:11:49.980 That's not what I'm talking about.

00:11:51.180 You can go to an extreme example.

00:11:52.620 I said you got a Norwegian and a Hispanic.

00:11:54.800 You're picking up illegal aliens.

00:11:55.720 So you're picking the white person is what you're doing.

00:11:58.680 I would not pick the white person because she didn't come here illegally.

00:12:02.220 You're hopping to the most extreme example, but do you think you should be able to go somewhere?

00:12:04.680 And if there's a group of people speaking Spanish, you should be able to directly target them due to the Spanish that they're speaking.

00:12:09.480 Speaking Spanish is not a race.

00:12:11.520 I'm just talking about the profiling that they do.

00:12:12.580 Plenty of white people speak Spanish.

00:12:13.880 Even black people do, too.

00:12:15.060 They are profiling people based on their language, their skin color, and things.

00:12:18.240 That's what I'm saying.

00:12:19.380 Hold on.

00:12:19.920 That's different, Adam.

00:12:20.600 This is a very important point.

00:12:21.800 You're saying, should we profile people based on strictly one criterion?

00:12:26.520 And I would say, ah, probably not.

00:12:27.780 That's probably a broad brush.

00:12:28.500 But they think we should.

00:12:29.360 Hold on.

00:12:29.780 The audience thinks we should.

00:12:30.760 So you disagree with your own audience?

00:12:32.240 No, no.

00:12:32.520 You just said...

00:12:33.340 Wait, should we racial profile?

00:12:34.600 Hold on.

00:12:35.160 But what you just said was race, speaking a foreign language in an enclave that's segregated from the mainstream community, speaking in their own way.

00:12:43.780 Well, now you've got like five different touch points.

00:12:45.980 Yes.

00:12:46.520 I would say, Tom Holman, round him up.

00:12:48.820 Here's the problem.

00:12:49.980 The Trump administration has admitted they have done illegal deportations.

00:12:53.360 When they brought back Kilmar Armando Obrego Garcia...

00:12:55.800 Kilmar Obrego.

00:12:56.740 Give me a break.

00:12:57.340 Wait.

00:12:57.480 This gangster from Maryland.

00:12:59.220 The Democrat Senator Chris Van Hollen.

00:13:01.080 Love of his life.

00:13:01.600 Wait a minute.

00:13:02.040 If he's a gangster, why did the Trump administration bring him back?

00:13:04.260 He's being prosecuted right now in the United States.

00:13:06.040 Why did they bring him back?

00:13:07.100 Because some two-bit federal judge made him do it, so now he's being prosecuted here.

00:13:10.920 Why would they agree if it was just...

00:13:12.340 Trump always disagrees with judges.

00:13:13.880 Why would he bring him back?

00:13:15.220 Because Trump's not a tyrant like you people always say that he is.

00:13:18.180 He follows the law.

00:13:19.160 He listens to the courts.

00:13:20.160 And he works within the system of laws.

00:13:21.720 Okay.

00:13:22.200 Now, who was the VIP in that round?

00:13:25.080 Do we even have to ask?

00:13:26.260 Is that our future senator, Mr. Not Born Here American?

00:13:31.520 Where's he?

00:13:31.980 Where's he at?

00:13:33.260 Sir, you get to go to the VIP table.

00:13:36.460 Great to see you.

00:13:39.260 Paolo.

00:13:39.860 I do Paolo.

00:13:40.920 Paolo.

00:13:41.640 That's a good name.

00:13:43.260 Is that Italian?

00:13:44.700 All right.

00:13:45.440 Now, that's...

00:13:46.460 Get him out of our country.

00:13:47.760 Get him out of our country.

00:13:49.260 Yeah.

00:13:49.860 Anti-Italian discrimination.

00:13:51.600 Okay.

00:13:52.840 Now, folks.

00:13:54.560 Ceci, would you like to go first?

00:13:56.640 Okay.

00:13:57.280 So, my top topic is Trump is using national emergencies to distract from the Epstein files

00:14:03.100 because he's in them.

00:14:04.640 Okay.

00:14:05.260 Does that do it for you?

00:14:07.040 That's a...

00:14:07.600 Okay.

00:14:08.680 All right, Adam.

00:14:09.760 How about this one?

00:14:11.320 Trump's tariffs have been an unmitigated disaster.

00:14:14.040 Oh.

00:14:15.160 They have been a disaster.

00:14:16.860 Boo the tariffs.

00:14:17.600 Yeah.

00:14:18.040 Boo.

00:14:18.480 I kind of like that topic because it's so wrong.

00:14:21.160 Okay.

00:14:21.420 My topic is it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

00:14:25.500 Gay marriage is really bad for kids.

00:14:27.860 Is that...

00:14:28.480 All right.

00:14:29.320 Wow.

00:14:29.620 All right.

00:14:29.980 Michael, you won.

00:14:31.300 We're going to do Adam and Steve first.

00:14:34.440 Wow, man.

00:14:35.500 2003 slogans still crushing in 2025.

00:14:39.720 Love it.

00:14:40.380 Okay.

00:14:40.740 Let's get into it.

00:14:42.060 It seems to me there's no such thing as gay marriage.

00:14:44.600 There's nothing against guys who are a little light in the loafers.

00:14:46.980 I lived in New York, in L.A.

00:14:48.500 I went to the gayest university in the world.

00:14:50.800 But it's just...

00:14:51.940 You went to Yale?

00:14:52.500 It was Yale.

00:14:53.360 He guessed it.

00:14:55.220 But men and women are different.

00:14:57.260 And so the union of two men is different from the union of two women.

00:15:00.380 And that's different from a marriage, which is a man and a woman.

00:15:02.660 And I think that men and women both have something to contribute.

00:15:06.840 I think that children benefit from a mother and a father.

00:15:09.720 I don't think men and women can be replaced and substituted for each other.

00:15:13.620 And the science shows that kids who are raised in gay households do a lot work on basically

00:15:18.580 every measure.

00:15:19.820 That's not true.

00:15:21.360 Yeah, so...

00:15:21.940 What'd I get wrong?

00:15:22.940 A few things.

00:15:23.820 First of all, I just want to start with the fundamental fact that I think marriage is important.

00:15:28.260 I think that marriage is something that should be incentivized.

00:15:30.340 And in America, there is gay marriage.

00:15:32.420 You can say gay marriage does not exist, but there is gay marriage since 2015.

00:15:36.880 It has existed.

00:15:37.200 That's like saying there's up-down, though.

00:15:38.220 You could say it, but it doesn't make it real.

00:15:39.900 Legally, can gay people get married?

00:15:41.380 Have gay people gotten married in the United States?

00:15:43.340 Well, some have when they're hiding their true desires, I guess.

00:15:47.300 Legally, have gay people gotten married in the United States?

00:15:49.780 Have a man and a man legally gotten married?

00:15:52.040 Yes or no?

00:15:52.460 No, that's not possible.

00:15:53.360 That'd be like swimming in outer space.

00:15:54.960 It doesn't mean anything.

00:15:56.400 No, legally, they are married.

00:15:58.200 Wait, guys in the crowd.

00:15:59.120 Two men have never gotten married?

00:16:00.480 Ever in America?

00:16:01.260 They've married women.

00:16:02.580 What do you mean semantics?

00:16:03.560 Can you explain what you mean by semantics?

00:16:07.840 No, I'm straight.

00:16:08.760 I'm just trying to defend...

00:16:10.420 If you have a point to make, go up to the microphone.

00:16:15.020 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:15.500 So I feel like you're the one that's playing semantics.

00:16:17.920 When you say that...

00:16:18.800 Well, semantics means meaning, and I'm trying to get to the meaning of the debate.

00:16:20.880 And by the way, semantics are very, very important.

00:16:22.680 So when we look at the laws in the United States, you cannot look me in the eyes and say,

00:16:27.020 two women have never gotten married.

00:16:28.380 You can play semantics.

00:16:29.180 Yeah.

00:16:29.780 I'm looking you right in the eyes.

00:16:31.340 Two women have never married.

00:16:32.420 You're lying.

00:16:33.140 That's not true.

00:16:34.600 You guys can cheer, but I'm sure you guys know good people.

00:16:37.520 That's not true.

00:16:37.540 Right.

00:16:37.640 We know that people have gotten married legally.

00:16:39.780 Let's go downstream to your next argument that children don't do better in gay marriages.

00:16:44.820 Which isn't true.

00:16:46.280 I think that there's a lot of statistics showing the exact opposite.

00:16:48.980 Such as?

00:16:49.700 There's studies.

00:16:50.720 There's one that I was reading earlier.

00:16:52.300 I can't remember the exact name, but it was the main one that is supposed to prove that

00:16:55.620 gay or that children in same-sex couple or same-sex marriages don't perform as well.

00:16:59.920 But there were a lot of other factors they weren't controlling for, such as unstableness

00:17:05.120 in the family household, which was not directly related to gay couples.

00:17:08.640 But can I ask you a question?

00:17:10.360 Hold on.

00:17:10.460 Hold on.

00:17:10.580 So you were touching on points that do bear on that, but this is a very important part

00:17:14.220 of the debate.

00:17:14.680 Yeah.

00:17:14.920 Because the study that everyone cites in defense of gay marriage, gay marriage, is the Rosenfeld

00:17:20.220 study from Stanford 2010.

00:17:22.260 And it found that the kids raised in gay households did just as well as the kids raised in normal

00:17:26.900 households.

00:17:27.820 The problem was that the study eliminated households where the parents had moved and the kids had

00:17:34.120 moved within five years.

00:17:35.660 That disproportionately removed the same-sex households.

00:17:38.440 So that was re-examined later on, and when you controlled for that fact, it wiped it away.

00:17:44.960 More importantly, in 2012, there was a study that came out of UT Austin.

00:17:48.800 This was much more thorough.

00:17:50.380 It measured the kids of married parents, heterosexual living-together parents, two fellas, two chicks.

00:17:57.680 Measured them on 80 different measures of social outcome.

00:18:02.240 The children of the same-sex couples did worse on 77 out of 80.

00:18:07.280 The exceptions were voting habits and alcoholism among kids raised by lesbians.

00:18:11.360 Can I ask you a question?

00:18:12.080 No, I want to ask a question really quick.

00:18:13.540 Would you rather- so the gays, when they adopt, are taking kids who don't have homes.

00:18:18.480 Would you rather kids grow up in a foster care system?

00:18:20.920 Sometimes intentionally purchasing kids through the idea of-

00:18:24.060 No, they're not purchasing kids.

00:18:25.080 With the intention of depriving them of their natural mothers.

00:18:27.520 They go through the same checks as straight couples to adopt.

00:18:31.320 Can I say a few things really quickly?

00:18:32.560 Can I ask you a question?

00:18:33.240 Sure, Adam.

00:18:33.560 So yeah, each state has different laws that are- you have to meet certain requirements to adopt people.

00:18:38.740 So you cannot just adopt somebody if you're an absolute piece of shit all the time, but-

00:18:42.580 Plus, how many straight people have kids that shouldn't?

00:18:44.680 You can, you can.

00:18:45.820 But overall, there are house checks, there are things that go through-

00:18:48.280 Can I ask you a simple question, though?

00:18:49.340 Yes.

00:18:49.580 Say a kid was abandoned by their family at a young age, and they're growing up in the foster care system.

00:18:54.160 Would you rather them spend most of their formative years in the foster care system, or with two parents that are the same sex?

00:19:00.000 So I think it's very telling that you're focusing on older children in the foster care system,

00:19:04.540 and not defending-

00:19:05.240 It can be younger as well.

00:19:05.520 And not defending kids who are either adopted as newborns, or kids who are, which is an increasingly frequent occurrence,

00:19:13.320 kids who are purchased through the IVF and surrogacy industry with the intention of depriving them of their natural mothers.

00:19:18.780 And I think you're doing it, because it's the most sort of heart-

00:19:21.640 Well, no, you're not answering my question.

00:19:23.160 Wait, did he just answer my question?

00:19:24.660 Yeah, do you want them in the foster care system?

00:19:25.640 No, he did not.

00:19:26.140 No, I guess my answer is, because the overwhelming scientific evidence backs up the overwhelming common sense evidence,

00:19:33.320 that kids do-

00:19:33.560 I'm going to ask the question one more time.

00:19:34.700 I'm answering it for you.

00:19:35.680 That kids do worse on virtually every measure raised by same-sex children, I would not subject them to that.

00:19:39.280 So you'd rather have them in the foster care system?

00:19:41.400 I don't think, for example, I am answering the question.

00:19:44.780 It's yes or no?

00:19:45.340 You've kind of just slithered around it.

00:19:46.680 Wait, what's his answer been, guys?

00:19:47.600 Does he want them in the foster care system?

00:19:49.960 Clarify your answer for me.

00:19:50.920 I am answering it for you.

00:19:52.400 What is his answer been?

00:19:53.020 I don't think that children do well raised by same-sex parents.

00:19:56.880 That's not the question.

00:19:57.520 The question is, do you want them in the foster care system more than in a two-house-

00:20:01.360 I don't think that two men or two women should be able to adopt-

00:20:05.960 So foster care system is better.

00:20:06.620 So yes, foster is better for them.

00:20:07.780 So you're slipping through the-

00:20:08.800 Guys, are we going crazy or are we not answering the question right now?

00:20:11.580 I guess my answer for the foster care system would be that kids are being raised often in same-sex situations in the foster care system.

00:20:19.340 So you can't make a comparison between those two because you're already dealing with one man or five men or ten men.

00:20:24.080 Why did it take you like five minutes to make that point at the end?

00:20:26.240 Because you're evading the actual point, which is whether children raised in same-sex households do better or worse.

00:20:34.140 And the scientific evidence, which you could not cite, uniformly says that they do worse.

00:20:40.260 Not uniformly, no.

00:20:41.280 You just cited a study from 2010 that said the opposite.

00:20:43.040 Which was corrected three years later out of Simon Fraser University.

00:20:47.160 There are multiple organizations.

00:20:48.640 When I was doing my research, I can't remember.

00:20:50.120 There are multiple organizations.

00:20:51.280 Then you've got to do better research if you can't remember.

00:20:53.240 Dude, you've got to answer my questions a little better.

00:20:54.800 I don't know.

00:20:55.660 I think I just answered your question.

00:20:56.760 So yes, the foster care system is better.

00:20:58.040 So a foster care system is what you prefer.

00:20:59.600 That's so ridiculous.

00:21:01.840 You're making a totally inapt comparison to avoid the actual point.

00:21:05.100 But there aren't enough.

00:21:06.000 Like gay couples adopt and so do straight couples.

00:21:09.760 I don't understand why you would rather have them in the foster care system.

00:21:12.580 It's a very common situation that happens, Michael.

00:21:14.740 A lot of times people are abandoned and gay couples obviously can't have kids.

00:21:18.100 So what they do is adopt.

00:21:19.080 Now my question is simple.

00:21:19.740 No, that's not true.

00:21:20.360 What they do generally is purchase children through the IVF industry.

00:21:23.560 Do you think straight couples are also buying kids when they do IVF?

00:21:29.420 Well, they shouldn't do that either.

00:21:30.620 Do we have any questions over here at the mic?

00:21:33.420 Adam, I think you're completely wrong.

00:21:35.420 About what?

00:21:36.140 How did we get on the topic from kids to marriage?

00:21:40.300 First off, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:21:42.440 Let me talk.

00:21:43.300 Oh, that was his problem.

00:21:44.060 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:21:45.540 Let me talk.

00:21:46.800 All right.

00:21:47.180 There is two genders in this world.

00:21:51.020 You are born with either a, you know.

00:21:54.040 You just went from kids marriage to gender.

00:21:56.440 Okay.

00:21:56.920 But it doesn't make a difference.

00:21:58.680 Well, you just said he's that.

00:22:00.080 Men belong with women and women belong with men.

00:22:02.440 That's all I got to say.

00:22:03.480 Thank you very much.

00:22:04.220 Wow.

00:22:04.420 Real sophisticated answer.

00:22:05.860 I know.

00:22:06.100 I thought that was well said.

00:22:07.920 Your prompt didn't include the kid part though, right?

00:22:09.840 Say it again.

00:22:10.420 Your prompt didn't include the kid part though, right?

00:22:12.100 Also, you're here with a giant group of men, right?

00:22:15.100 Well done.

00:22:15.740 Excellent question.

00:22:17.220 All right.

00:22:17.900 We have to move on topics.

00:22:20.260 Okay.

00:22:20.580 So please, I want to buy you a drink at the VIP table.

00:22:23.440 We got Mayflower cigars over there.

00:22:25.780 Don't light them inside, please.

00:22:27.340 Can you tell me, what is your name?

00:22:30.140 Joey.

00:22:30.840 That's a good name.

00:22:33.040 Josefina.

00:22:34.140 Josefina works too.

00:22:35.320 I mean, it's only for a day, you know.

00:22:37.740 Wait, so you guys are okay with a group of guys breaking gender norms to have a little

00:22:41.220 They're not adopting any kids.

00:22:42.660 Don't worry.

00:22:43.160 There's going to be no kids tonight.

00:22:45.020 Wait, no, but you guys are okay with that?

00:22:47.040 I feel like that usually wouldn't be okay.

00:22:48.320 You guys would call people like that like weird, but they're just like having fun, right?

00:22:51.440 Well, the reality is if you're just playing around and pretending and we all know it's

00:22:55.340 like a big joke, that's one thing.

00:22:57.080 But the crazy thing that happened in our society is we all started to pretend that like the

00:23:03.920 farce was reality and that's when you take it a little bit too far.

00:23:07.180 You know, I don't know.

00:23:07.820 Do you think gender dysphoria is not real according to DSM-5 or are you going to all

00:23:11.200 Yeah, I think some fellas think they're ladies or they watch too much porn or whatever,

00:23:15.060 but they shouldn't.

00:23:15.820 It's bad for them and they should be tethered to reality.

00:23:18.640 That would be the charitable and it's the charitable right thing to do because charity

00:23:22.420 is clarity would be my view.

00:23:24.120 Okay.

00:23:24.740 Ladies first.

00:23:26.200 What's your top topic?

00:23:27.540 Okay.

00:23:27.840 My next topic is the incel male loneliness epidemic is self-imposed.

00:23:35.200 That was the incel crowd.

00:23:36.760 You didn't hear?

00:23:37.420 Okay.

00:23:37.960 That's good.

00:23:38.840 Adam?

00:23:39.760 My last one is Trump has personally profited more off of this presidency than any other

00:23:44.900 president in history.

00:23:45.760 He has doubled his net worth.

00:23:48.660 They're applauding the prophet, I think.

00:23:50.440 They're not applauding.

00:23:51.520 Yeah, because you guys are hypocrites who have no spine.

00:23:53.980 I don't mind prophets.

00:23:54.760 Prophets are great.

00:23:55.580 He's doubled his net worth, my dude.

00:23:56.760 That dude at the mic was just saying that Americans should be paid living wages, yet

00:24:00.160 the president is doubling his net worth and you're like, yeah.

00:24:02.920 During the presidency?

00:24:04.280 No, I was in the internecine period.

00:24:06.020 Now, okay.

00:24:06.980 My last topic.

00:24:08.420 28% of Zoomers should be alive today, but their mothers killed them.

00:24:13.040 Kind of a doer topic.

00:24:14.480 Yeah, okay.

00:24:14.920 All right.

00:24:15.080 No one wants to talk about that, but it's true.

00:24:16.560 Isn't that crazy?

00:24:17.600 Okay.

00:24:18.600 I don't know.

00:24:19.200 Mr. Davies.

00:24:19.720 I actually couldn't tell between those two.

00:24:21.500 I was actually a clear winner on the decimator.

00:24:23.700 The decimator popped when all the incels came out in force.

00:24:26.820 It was incels.

00:24:27.340 We're doing incels.

00:24:27.920 It was incels, yeah.

00:24:29.020 Hold on one second.

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00:25:50.480 Ceci, what's your argument?

00:25:51.860 All right.

00:25:52.320 So the male loneliness epidemic, let me tell you, this whole incel movement, it's disturbing.

00:25:57.940 I think that a lot of guys, you know, feel alone or they're angry.

00:26:01.200 And then this whole red pill podcast came through to tell them where to put their anger,

00:26:07.460 blame women, and they can't get laid.

00:26:10.140 But in reality, I think you should be blaming more like the dating apps, this and that, because

00:26:15.840 we're not out in the wild.

00:26:16.940 We're at a bar right now with like 70 people.

00:26:19.440 You can find a match here instead of online where you have 7,000 and everyone's just playing

00:26:25.140 the game.

00:26:25.960 I just don't feel like there's enough contact.

00:26:27.520 I mean, as time goes on, according to the CDC, we're having less sex.

00:26:32.900 Excuse me.

00:26:33.200 You're having less sex as time goes on.

00:26:36.740 Like we, I think incels need to get a gay friend and a girlfriend to glow you up and

00:26:42.800 show you the way.

00:26:43.800 There's somebody, there is somebody for everybody.

00:26:46.700 Have you ever seen the show, My Strange Addiction?

00:26:49.340 They're all married.

00:26:50.480 So if you're an incel in the room, you will find yours.

00:26:53.060 Trust.

00:26:54.680 So hold on.

00:26:55.500 Ceci, I want to, I want to see if I can narrow.

00:26:58.040 I thought you were going to go after the incels, but that was like a pep talk.

00:27:01.460 That was very inspiring.

00:27:02.500 But that's the thing, like for the incel movement, like I don't want to tear you down.

00:27:07.320 Like I want you to be built up so that you're good men for us women.

00:27:11.700 Wow.

00:27:12.320 Okay.

00:27:12.820 Like I want to help you get laid.

00:27:15.660 Not me.

00:27:16.300 Are you pro incel?

00:27:17.360 No.

00:27:18.440 But other women, I could help you with your style.

00:27:21.460 I could totally help you.

00:27:23.240 Wow.

00:27:23.880 That's it.

00:27:24.420 If the bachelor party could get any more excited, I think they would be out of the room.

00:27:29.460 Okay.

00:27:29.760 Yes.

00:27:30.300 Can I just give a bit of a boring answer as a young dude who's grown up in this culture?

00:27:33.720 Yes.

00:27:34.040 I'm not an incel, but I just mean I've grown up and I've seen this.

00:27:36.920 Are you a vol cell?

00:27:38.380 What's that?

00:27:38.680 So an incel is an involuntary celibate and a vol cell, I've learned, is a voluntary celibate.

00:27:44.600 What's the name for a normal person?

00:27:47.540 That's me.

00:27:48.140 Sexually active.

00:27:49.040 Okay.

00:27:49.480 I think that a lot of this was exacerbated by social media.

00:27:52.620 And then when the COVID pandemic hit, a lot of people put up bubbles around themselves.

00:27:56.720 The COVID pandemic kind of feels like a lot of people were isolating and I had to intentionally tear down that bubble and make sure I'm socializing after.

00:28:03.640 So I think we see the downstream effects of social media and COVID kind of f***ing up the brains of young men en masse.

00:28:10.940 And a lot of this stuff happens online.

00:28:12.840 But just from what I've seen firsthand, it's a lot of social stuff that has been caused by the environment we've grown up in.

00:28:18.080 But if that's fair.

00:28:19.180 You know, I can't believe it.

00:28:20.140 It's kind of weird.

00:28:21.100 But I agree.

00:28:22.660 Actually, if you look, isn't that odd that we agree on something?

00:28:25.380 I, because I was looking, it's the male, global male loneliness index or whatever it is, says that COVID was the spike in 30% of male loneliness.

00:28:35.560 The numbers are awful.

00:28:36.740 80% of suicides are men.

00:28:39.160 Men report, you know, having been extremely lonely the day before at a much higher rate than women.

00:28:43.580 So they're really in a bad spot.

00:28:45.160 And my only thought on it is, well, actually, Adam, it's to your point, which is instead of like the incel, it's like, are you an incel, trad, hip, cool, Neil, whatever.

00:28:55.640 If you're just normal, if you just be normal and you live a normal life and you do normal things, which weirdly includes a bunch of dudes like every so often wearing weird wigs and going out to a bar.

00:29:06.860 That is normal.

00:29:07.640 I go to a bachelor party is a normal thing.

00:29:09.200 I'm going to one tomorrow, actually.

00:29:10.360 You know, if you just do that behavior, you're here, it worked for your parents, it worked for your grandparents.

00:29:16.740 Exactly.

00:29:17.300 You guys need to get out into the wild, man.

00:29:20.180 Do we have a question?

00:29:21.720 I got a question.

00:29:23.140 I'll clarify, not an incel, got a girlfriend.

00:29:27.140 Volcel, practicing Catholic, you know, for now.

00:29:29.720 But I think there is an issue.

00:29:32.980 There is an issue.

00:29:33.900 And the issue I'm finding is that my friends at least don't want to meet a girlfriend or wife at a bar necessarily.

00:29:39.720 So they want to meet her in church or a church event or something like that.

00:29:43.280 In my generation, for the first time in history, there are more men attending church regularly than women.

00:29:49.080 So I'm wondering, I don't want this trend to kind of keep going in opposite directions where you end up with all these church-going stand-up, you know, men without options for partners.

00:29:59.780 Well, I mean, when they're at church, I mean, are they flirting?

00:30:03.040 Are they doing the appropriate things?

00:30:04.860 The women aren't there.

00:30:05.320 What's your prescription, Michael?

00:30:06.460 What's your prescription of that problem?

00:30:07.640 The women aren't there.

00:30:07.900 The women aren't there anymore.

00:30:09.720 That's the problem.

00:30:10.660 Well, that's because a lot of religion holds women back.

00:30:13.120 So we don't want to be there.

00:30:14.540 Oh, yeah.

00:30:15.640 Religion's what's holding women back.

00:30:17.500 Religion's the problem.

00:30:18.700 Religion's saving women.

00:30:20.220 Religion's saving women from the idols that are everywhere right now.

00:30:25.260 Maybe not yet.

00:30:26.100 It's never too late, you know.

00:30:27.760 Actually, let me say this.

00:30:28.960 My grandmother is a Christian pastor.

00:30:31.040 Like, I grew up in the church.

00:30:32.260 Oh, that's not real either.

00:30:33.480 No, that's the idol right there.

00:30:36.260 Come on.

00:30:37.140 She's a Methodist Christian Cuban pastor.

00:30:39.900 The reason they're booing, it's very nice that your grandma's Christian.

00:30:43.600 That's a good thing.

00:30:44.400 But it's because women can.

00:30:46.980 Yeah, because she's a pastor.

00:30:47.360 But she is.

00:30:48.340 She was the first one in her church to be a pastor.

00:30:50.880 This is true.

00:30:51.400 I'm not lying.

00:30:52.260 In deference to your grandmother, I won't make the broader theological point.

00:30:55.320 Yeah, don't.

00:30:56.380 Don't do that.

00:30:57.780 But you go to a Catholic mass, I take it.

00:31:00.860 Is that right?

00:31:01.400 Yes, that's right.

00:31:01.960 So there, we don't have priestesses in the Catholic mass, no.

00:31:05.940 But you make a great point, which is that in the new atheism, men led the way out of religion.

00:31:12.200 Men led the way to atheism.

00:31:13.660 And then, now that everyone realizes atheism is dumb and totally indefensible, now it's the men leading the way back.

00:31:20.220 But you have this problem, especially if you go to the traditional masses, where if you want to date, you know, the odds are good, but the goods are odd.

00:31:27.260 I mean, these are real, particular people.

00:31:30.060 And it's a lot of guys.

00:31:31.540 So in that case, I would just say you have to do what is incumbent upon a man.

00:31:35.200 And you've got to lead.

00:31:36.600 And you have to kind of lead by example.

00:31:38.620 And maybe that means that tonight when you're leaving this wonderful bar, you know, you see a girl who's relatively wholesome.

00:31:45.880 Well, you're also dating.

00:31:47.620 But some of your friends, you see a girl who's relatively wholesome for lower Broadway in Nashville.

00:31:52.320 And you invite her to the traditional Latin mass tomorrow.

00:31:55.800 I think you guys just need to shoot your shot when you want to.

00:31:58.660 It's a numbers game at the end of the day.

00:32:00.780 So, I mean, no, legit, it is.

00:32:03.980 It's a numbers game.

00:32:05.240 So shoot your shot.

00:32:06.180 See something, say something.

00:32:07.400 When I see someone's cute, I say it.

00:32:09.380 I ask guys out all the time.

00:32:12.020 Yeah, hold on.

00:32:13.000 Okay, listen, I understand what you're saying, that it's self-inflicted.

00:32:17.840 Because I think if a man sees a problem, he shouldn't blame anybody else for it.

00:32:22.340 He should do whatever he has to do to fix the problem.

00:32:25.580 But what do you think?

00:32:26.780 What do you think?

00:32:27.920 What do you think about the fact that an estimated 1.4 million women in America are on OnlyFans?

00:32:34.440 And most of them aren't making any money from it.

00:32:37.680 So if you're in college, if you're in college and you're trying to meet the person you're going to be with the rest of your life,

00:32:43.760 what are you supposed to do when like 25% of the chicks around there are showing their tits online for free?

00:32:48.660 Free market, baby.

00:32:49.180 Well, then that's not.

00:32:50.440 Okay, so then, well, since they're out there and you know they're on OnlyFans and that,

00:32:54.080 you already can write them off as the chick you don't want.

00:32:56.940 So I guess they're exposing themselves so that you know that's not for me.

00:33:00.160 I'm just saying it's like harder to catch a fish when you dump toxic waste in the pond is all I'm saying.

00:33:04.940 You know, hold on.

00:33:06.000 His other problem with it, your problem with it right when you said the question was not that they're on OnlyFans

00:33:11.620 but that they're not making any money from it.

00:33:13.500 That's the big, there's an argument if she's making a million dollars a month.

00:33:16.460 I mean, if they're doing it for no money, that's just stupid.

00:33:19.300 But also there can't be a seller without a buyer.

00:33:22.260 So maybe if men stop going on OnlyFans, he wouldn't do it.

00:33:27.080 The reason why OnlyFans is popular is because a lot of lonely young men.

00:33:30.040 Yes, there can't be a seller without a buyer.

00:33:32.540 But aren't those lonely young men?

00:33:33.380 But if there's nothing to buy, you can't buy it.

00:33:35.940 If there's nothing to buy, you can't buy it.

00:33:37.280 I thought we liked free market capitalism in here.

00:33:39.400 I thought if there was demand for something.

00:33:40.680 Not unrestrained by a moral order.

00:33:42.140 If there is demand.

00:33:43.040 Wait, so you're okay?

00:33:44.020 I don't worship mammon.

00:33:45.140 Are you okay with the government stepping in if there's a moral?

00:33:47.680 For sure.

00:33:48.240 Wait, so is the government in your eyes, sorry, I don't really know much about your ideology.

00:33:50.980 Is the government in your eyes the ultimate arbiter of what's moral and what's not?

00:33:53.780 No, there's an objective moral order that we can intuit because we're creatures of reason.

00:33:58.220 Wait, so OnlyFans is objectively bad in your eyes?

00:33:59.840 Yeah, for sure.

00:34:00.500 Not in my eyes, so it's not objective.

00:34:01.940 Yeah, I don't care.

00:34:02.360 No, just because you're wrong about something doesn't mean it's not objective.

00:34:05.540 That's convenient.

00:34:06.360 That's convenient for you.

00:34:07.180 No, no, no.

00:34:07.500 Listen, two plus two equals four.

00:34:09.200 You talk to a three-year-old kid, he might think two plus two equals five.

00:34:11.920 That doesn't mean that we just throw our hands in the air and can't come to a conclusion.

00:34:14.740 Okay, there's a creator economy in OnlyFans with not only millions or 1.4 million girls participating,

00:34:19.380 but even more millions of men.

00:34:20.740 So, all of these people in your eyes are just complete moral degenerates who are wrong.

00:34:26.260 Yeah, basically.

00:34:27.580 Okay.

00:34:28.260 But then we all sin.

00:34:29.600 All people sin.

00:34:29.960 What's your governmental prescription to stop that from happening?

00:34:32.000 What's your prescription?

00:34:32.700 Does the government step in and regulate OnlyFans, stop men from buying that?

00:34:36.760 Okay, wait.

00:34:37.360 Yeah, basically.

00:34:38.120 That's not small government.

00:34:39.160 That's more government.

00:34:39.940 So, you want more government to step in?

00:34:41.420 Yeah, I want a proper, limited government that pursues the common good.

00:34:46.000 I want to ask the audience.

00:34:46.560 No, I'm not a libertarian, but I'm a conservative.

00:34:48.360 But I want to ask the audience a quick question.

00:34:50.420 Okay, for the guys in here, clap if you would want to see OnlyFans completely go away.

00:34:57.920 Yes!

00:34:58.800 Yes!

00:34:59.900 Okay, okay, wait.

00:35:01.220 All right.

00:35:02.040 Okay, wait.

00:35:03.960 Hold on, Adam, you're not clapping.

00:35:05.900 Now clap if you wouldn't want it to go away.

00:35:09.440 I don't get it.

00:35:10.220 You don't have to watch it.

00:35:11.660 Hold on.

00:35:12.060 I don't want to embarrass you, Adam, but notice here.

00:35:14.800 She said, do you want to see this, like, disgusting pornography site go away?

00:35:18.260 And clap if you want to do it.

00:35:19.460 And you didn't clap.

00:35:20.640 That makes you look like a weirdo.

00:35:22.320 You should have clapped.

00:35:23.600 You should have clapped.

00:35:24.120 I don't think I look like a weirdo.

00:35:25.360 Can I just explain?

00:35:26.420 Yes.

00:35:26.660 I'm just rather agnostic.

00:35:27.860 I think if there's supply and demand, I think there's demand for an economy.

00:35:30.620 You've got women being exploited, selling their bodies for sex.

00:35:32.560 They're going to be washed out of it.

00:35:33.980 They're going to have trouble getting jobs.

00:35:35.260 No man's going to want them, like Nick said.

00:35:37.180 That's their personal decision, though.

00:35:38.000 That's their personal decision.

00:35:39.000 It's a bad decision.

00:35:39.680 I think it's valid work.

00:35:40.620 So are you their boss or their dad?

00:35:42.700 No, I'm a citizen in a self-governing republic that makes laws to protect the common good.

00:35:47.580 You have to go to their page to see it.

00:35:49.580 You know what my question is?

00:35:50.620 Yeah.

00:35:50.820 If you want the government to be able to step in and regulate something like OnlyFans,

00:35:55.040 which it currently does on the books, by the way, because we have a senator.

00:35:57.860 Can I just point out the problem?

00:35:58.560 When the government is orbiting what's moral like that,

00:36:01.200 then what happens when the next administration comes in and they say,

00:36:03.580 hmm, any dude with a mic who is spewing stuff like Michael Knowles is,

00:36:06.780 I think that that's immoral.

00:36:07.800 I think that that is objectively immoral, and I want to regulate dudes with microphones.

00:36:11.240 There is a slippery slope that happens.

00:36:12.820 You have just described how government works.

00:36:14.740 Yes, that's true.

00:36:16.000 No, no, no.

00:36:17.160 I am describing what happens when one government overreaches and tries to impose their morals,

00:36:21.420 and you have a slippery slope.

00:36:22.660 Wait, so if you're saying this is how government works,

00:36:24.980 why doesn't the Trump administration regulate and ban OnlyFans like everyone in this room wants?

00:36:28.580 Because they are not going to do that.

00:36:29.600 Well, because the Supreme Court weakened the obscenity laws,

00:36:33.120 which have been on the books since the founding of the country,

00:36:35.160 and they did that in the middle of the 20th century, which was terrible.

00:36:37.300 So it's not how administrations work,

00:36:38.540 because the Supreme Court is not allowing the administration to do it.

00:36:41.040 No, but George W. Bush prosecuted a pornographer for obscenity in 2008.

00:36:44.960 One pornographer is different than banning an industry.

00:36:47.160 At the federal level.

00:36:47.840 You want the government to ban an industry.

00:36:49.740 When's the last time the government's banned an industry that has demand?

00:36:53.440 What was the answer out there?

00:36:56.340 Prostitution?

00:36:56.860 Well, it depends.

00:36:57.500 In certain places.

00:36:58.500 I was going to say, it's still legal in certain places.

00:36:59.680 When's the last time they have banned, federally, some sort of demand market?

00:37:05.100 Narcotics.

00:37:06.120 Narcotics?

00:37:07.040 Not, well.

00:37:08.880 Marijuana, for that matter, at the federal level, not at the state level.

00:37:11.840 I guess that works, but I just don't think that's comparable to OnlyFans.

00:37:14.080 Adam, wouldn't you say that all laws, to some degree, have recourse to morality?

00:37:20.480 Because we say, this is good, and this is bad,

00:37:22.560 and we need to be good to the asylum seekers,

00:37:24.620 and we need to be good to the trans children, or whatever.

00:37:27.920 You're always making recourse to moral arguments.

00:37:30.620 You just don't like it when we do it.

00:37:31.780 No, the thing about you, though, is that all your positions

00:37:35.060 are personal decisions and morals for you that you want to impose on me.

00:37:41.240 No, well, I think actually that statement that you just made,

00:37:44.280 that's your personal opinion about how government should work,

00:37:47.000 but I don't want you to impose that personal opinion

00:37:49.420 about what I can do with my government on me.

00:37:51.380 And I don't want you to decide, oh, all these women and men can't do OnlyFans.

00:37:56.360 Well, I don't want you to decide that I can't decide

00:37:58.660 that all those women and men can do OnlyFans.

00:38:00.000 You can have that opinion, but you can't actually enforce that on people.

00:38:01.800 And you can have that opinion, too, but you can't make me listen to you

00:38:04.920 when you say that I can't make the government ban OnlyFans.

00:38:06.740 That's not what I'm trying to do.

00:38:07.220 The difference between you and I is I don't want to put anything into legislation

00:38:09.760 that stops people from doing something they want.

00:38:11.740 And the difference between you and I is I don't want women to be trafficked for pornography.

00:38:14.320 Who the f*** is being trafficked when they decide to do it themselves?

00:38:16.600 You have to go to the page.

00:38:19.940 Do the prostitutes on the street decide for themselves?

00:38:23.040 I mean, depending on the chick, right?

00:38:24.740 I don't know.

00:38:25.280 I'm not on the street.

00:38:26.240 Maybe, yeah, maybe.

00:38:26.840 Let's talk to their pimps.

00:38:27.820 Let's see if they decide for themselves.

00:38:29.220 I don't know.

00:38:29.940 I agree.

00:38:30.400 You agree?

00:38:31.180 I agree.

00:38:31.740 That the prostitutes decide for themselves?

00:38:33.520 Yes.

00:38:33.900 Okay, all right, all done.

00:38:35.340 The bachelor party took a bad turn.

00:38:36.740 Okay, listen, who was the VIP?

00:38:39.900 Who was the VIP?

00:38:41.120 I would say me.

00:38:43.440 Thank you.

00:38:44.100 That's where I appreciate that.

00:38:45.500 No, I would say it's got to be Mr. Catholic Volsell, right?

00:38:48.780 I think Volsell gets it.

00:38:50.000 Yeah, Volsell gets it.

00:38:51.480 Yeah.

00:38:52.080 Volsell gets a cigar.

00:38:53.240 Yeah.

00:38:53.840 Congratulations.

00:38:55.280 Congratulations, Mr. Volsell.

00:38:57.240 Okay, I feel terrible because you got your topic in.

00:39:01.960 I got two of my topics in.

00:39:03.380 Mr. Adam flew out here all the way from Chicago.

00:39:07.360 Chicago.

00:39:07.600 Wait, no, I was in New York last night.

00:39:09.380 I got you out of Chicago in New York.

00:39:11.540 Maybe you should thank me for that opportunity.

00:39:14.200 Chicago's a nice city.

00:39:15.160 Come on, it's nice.

00:39:16.560 Chicago's a great city.

00:39:18.360 Well, it is MAGA country, so that's my favorite part about Chicago.

00:39:21.000 You guys are being uncharitable when you say Chicago's not a nice city.

00:39:23.560 It is a nice, affordable city.

00:39:25.020 It's Vol.

00:39:26.120 It's what?

00:39:26.860 It's Vol.

00:39:27.540 I don't know.

00:39:28.100 Okay, that's fair.

00:39:28.640 I don't know.

00:39:28.940 Any city where I can walk around in the middle of the night and Nigerian white supremacist

00:39:33.680 MAGA supporters can take my Subway sandwich away, that is not a good city.

00:39:37.600 That's a terrible city.

00:39:38.720 I want to debate at least one of your topics.

00:39:42.400 I don't want you going home without us talking about what you have to do.

00:39:45.280 Do you want to choose or should they choose?

00:39:46.900 I want them to choose.

00:39:48.020 Say that they want tariffs.

00:39:49.060 They want tariffs.

00:39:49.640 Let's do tariffs.

00:39:50.200 All right, let's do tariffs.

00:39:51.060 There we go.

00:39:51.380 We're doing tariffs.

00:39:51.960 What's your point?

00:39:53.140 I can start off with a lot of points, but I guess I just want to start off with a question.

00:39:56.860 Is that fair?

00:39:57.560 Yes.

00:39:57.820 When do you think Liberation Day tariffs went into effect?

00:40:01.280 Well, it was a process and they're still going into effect now, but they began in April

00:40:07.560 of this year.

00:40:08.740 The announcement happened in April of this year, but Trump does this weird thing where

00:40:12.260 he makes tariff announcements, but he doesn't actually enact them for like two weeks to 90

00:40:16.220 days.

00:40:16.620 And I think we can all agree with this fundamental idea that Trump's tariffs have been confusing.

00:40:20.720 Trump's tariffs have been pushed back over and over.

00:40:22.860 But the reality is the Liberation Day tariffs, the most radical tariffs that he announced

00:40:27.960 didn't go into effect till August 7th because he put in a 90 day delay.

00:40:31.720 August 7th was 14 days ago.

00:40:33.760 So you guys are going to rest your whole claim on the fact that tariffs haven't caused inflation,

00:40:38.120 but the tariffs just went into effect.

00:40:39.880 But I also want to point out the fact that Trump's tariffs have no rhyme or reason.

00:40:43.280 If you want to argue that we have trade imbalances in America, I wouldn't disagree.

00:40:49.620 But that is not what Trump was remedying.

00:40:51.600 How is remedying trade imbalances, putting tariffs indiscriminately on every single country?

00:40:55.920 Do you know what country has the highest tariffs right now?

00:40:57.940 Is it like Mauritius or something crazy?

00:40:59.900 It's Brazil, but not even to rebalance trade because of Bolsonaro was being targeted.

00:41:03.520 So what I'm making my point here is that Trump's tariffs have not been too intentionally

00:41:07.220 or targeted to help the economy.

00:41:08.860 What they have been doing is a lever for him to, you know, help Bolsonaro to use corruption,

00:41:15.280 a lever that has not helped the American people.

00:41:18.220 Tariffs are inherently inflationary, which you'll agree.

00:41:20.780 Tariffs are inflationary.

00:41:21.940 Not necessarily.

00:41:22.840 Well, they can be, but they're not necessarily.

00:41:25.300 Who pays for it, right?

00:41:26.360 It goes down to the consumer.

00:41:27.820 They largely are inflationary because at Customs and Border Patrol,

00:41:31.440 that is when it's collected by American companies.

00:41:34.020 So I just want to wrap this up.

00:41:35.900 I think that Trump's tariff policy has been an unmitigated disaster.

00:41:39.920 It has been awful.

00:41:41.340 So I agree with your points that that's confusing.

00:41:44.740 I think that was intentional.

00:41:45.960 I agree with your points that some of the measures for implementing them seem arbitrary.

00:41:49.780 I also think that was intentional and effective.

00:41:51.760 But I guess my question is, let's really hit, let's get specific here.

00:41:54.760 You say they've been a disaster.

00:41:56.440 By what economic measures have they been disasters?

00:41:58.460 There's a few.

00:41:59.240 PPI just came out and showed that vegetables are up by 38% over the past month.

00:42:03.000 Why do you think PPI went up?

00:42:04.460 Why do you think PPI went up?

00:42:05.560 There's a few reasons.

00:42:06.460 It could be tariffs.

00:42:07.360 It could be weather.

00:42:08.300 PPI is the producer price index, which is how producers are counting what things cost

00:42:12.760 and what they're selling to people.

00:42:13.760 But overall...

00:42:14.920 Why did it go up?

00:42:15.680 Vegetables went up 38%, a combination of weather and tariffs.

00:42:18.720 Weather and tariffs.

00:42:19.420 Is there maybe a third possibility that's correlated with PPI going up?

00:42:23.040 The fact that we just hit the highest stock market ever recorded in the month of August,

00:42:28.460 which is correlated with higher PPI.

00:42:30.300 You want to know why we hit the highest stock market?

00:42:32.060 I don't even care why we did.

00:42:33.860 I'm just pointing out that's why PPI went up.

00:42:35.160 No, no, no.

00:42:35.460 You can claim the highest stock market is impressive, but you know what's impressive

00:42:38.400 to me?

00:42:39.020 Trump took office and crashed the stock market on Liberation Day, and it didn't recover

00:42:43.180 until he reversed the tariffs.

00:42:44.900 So the only reason the market is up...

00:42:46.200 He didn't reverse the tariffs.

00:42:46.960 You just said the tariffs are being implemented right now.

00:42:48.900 He put a 90...

00:42:49.500 In a capricious...

00:42:50.360 No, no.

00:42:50.400 He put a 90-day pause...

00:42:51.820 Let me finish.

00:42:52.640 He put a 90-day pause, which confused people to such an extent that nobody believes him.

00:42:57.260 The stock market is hitting all-time highs at seven months into his presidency, which

00:43:00.800 is not impressive.

00:43:01.640 It was hitting all-time highs...

00:43:02.020 As the tariffs are being implemented, as you just admitted.

00:43:03.840 Because nobody believes him anymore.

00:43:05.540 Not a single person believes that Donald Trump is imposing tariffs that they will start.

00:43:09.080 You didn't even know when they started.

00:43:10.800 The guy who was saying...

00:43:11.660 I just told you when they started.

00:43:12.580 I told you they were being implemented successively, and they began in April.

00:43:15.720 I gave you the precise answer.

00:43:17.520 Did you say August 7th?

00:43:18.960 No, but...

00:43:19.760 You did not say August 7th.

00:43:20.500 They began to be implemented within weeks of the Liberation Day announcement in April.

00:43:24.380 You agree with my fundamental axiom that tariffs have been confusing...

00:43:27.560 Intentionally.

00:43:28.060 ...had they yielded any results?

00:43:29.160 Yes.

00:43:29.640 What?

00:43:30.380 Okay.

00:43:31.020 Well, here are the results.

00:43:32.700 Because there are three things that tariffs can do.

00:43:34.620 Tariffs can raise revenue, tariffs can get you better trade deals, and tariffs can boost manufacturing.

00:43:39.520 All of those things are contradictory.

00:43:41.020 Yeah.

00:43:41.280 Exactly.

00:43:42.220 So this is what's so amazing.

00:43:43.660 Because you make such a great point, Adam.

00:43:45.800 If you get the better trade deals, usually you don't get the revenue, you don't get the manufacturing.

00:43:50.400 If you get the manufacturing, usually you don't get the trade...

00:43:53.500 Rather, you don't get the revenue because it's not coming in.

00:43:55.720 Right.

00:43:56.100 Now, what's so strange about Trump's tariffs is that we have raised a lot of revenue.

00:44:00.920 $100 billion since April.

00:44:02.500 Wait, why is the deficit still increasing at a massive rate?

00:44:04.900 What the hell?

00:44:05.180 The budget deficit?

00:44:06.100 Yeah.

00:44:06.560 Well, because we're only, as you point out, like two months into the tariffs.

00:44:10.400 No, Trump claims that he's raised $3 trillion or something, right?

00:44:12.840 Don't distract.

00:44:13.480 Don't distract.

00:44:13.960 Okay, go for it.

00:44:14.440 $100 billion in tariffs.

00:44:16.200 That is more than twice.

00:44:17.800 That's two and a half times the historic average.

00:44:19.960 So we are raising revenue at a huge clip.

00:44:22.220 Then, manufacturing activity.

00:44:24.860 Manufacturing activity.

00:44:25.660 Is it a three-year high?

00:44:26.780 No, it's not.

00:44:27.600 No, it is not.

00:44:28.100 It is a three-year high.

00:44:28.700 By this point in Biden's presidency, we had added 200,000 manufacturing jobs.

00:44:32.560 We've lost 28,000 since Trump took office.

00:44:35.140 Manufacturing activity today, August 2025.

00:44:37.380 Nope.

00:44:37.680 Is that it?

00:44:38.180 It is.

00:44:38.620 I mean, I don't know.

00:44:39.100 Look it up in the...

00:44:39.740 Look it up.

00:44:40.460 Manufacturing has dropped under Trump.

00:44:41.720 It's at a three-year high.

00:44:42.940 So that means that it's signaling you're getting further growth.

00:44:46.080 But the craziest thing is the trade deals have been insane.

00:44:48.800 We just closed a deal with the European Union.

00:44:51.000 We tariff their goods.

00:44:51.860 They basically don't tariff our goods.

00:44:53.240 And they're investing $600 billion in the country.

00:44:55.400 So Trump managed to get all three objectives of tariffs simultaneously.

00:45:00.780 And the economy is at an all-time high.

00:45:02.540 And employment is full.

00:45:03.640 There is no economic indicator that has gone down under Trump.

00:45:07.500 It's all at highs.

00:45:09.420 But I notice that all the time the market is brought up.

00:45:13.000 When in reality, the average American, sometimes the stock market, isn't what affects them.

00:45:18.820 Like, not everyone's playing into the market.

00:45:20.440 The average American...

00:45:21.380 Can I ask you a question, Michael?

00:45:22.280 I mean, the average American is not...

00:45:24.280 Most Americans have retirement accounts and pensions and that sort of thing.

00:45:28.760 But in that way, they...

00:45:29.880 I want to be fair and reply to your EU point in just one second.

00:45:32.380 But I want to ask you the question.

00:45:33.340 When you cite this $100 billion raised, who is that raised from exactly?

00:45:37.880 It's raised from the countries that were tariffing.

00:45:39.640 That is not true.

00:45:40.960 So when you're saying goods are coming over the border,

00:45:43.820 Customs and Border Protection is taxing the other country.

00:45:47.960 Yes.

00:45:48.380 That is not how it works.

00:45:49.460 But I'm a cigar manufacturer who makes my product in Nicaragua.

00:45:53.200 I know a lot about tariffs and how they work.

00:45:55.500 And unfortunately for my industry, there's an 18% tariff in Nicaragua.

00:45:59.380 But it's okay.

00:45:59.880 I mean, listen, I'm willing to eat it because we have a very successful product called Makeflower.

00:46:02.360 Wait a minute.

00:46:02.860 You just said Nicaragua was eating the cost.

00:46:04.660 Are you implied that other countries were eating the cost when it hit CBB?

00:46:07.720 Oh, are you...

00:46:08.360 But you're eating the cost.

00:46:08.920 No, are you asking me if a manufacturer in another country has to bear that cost?

00:46:14.580 Yes, of course.

00:46:15.280 But I'm saying it's a manufacturer in the other country.

00:46:17.340 Which in the case of premium cigars is outside the United States.

00:46:19.580 But you're eating the cost.

00:46:21.180 Yeah, unfortunately.

00:46:22.080 Yeah, but not everyone's going to eat that cost.

00:46:24.140 A lot of it is going to go down to the consumer.

00:46:26.560 I know.

00:46:26.880 That's why you've got to go to good companies like Mayflower.

00:46:28.740 Okay, folks.

00:46:29.180 This is the last chance.

00:46:31.140 This is your last chance to win a free drink and a cigar.

00:46:34.900 So you need to get to that microphone.

00:46:36.600 We have someone up already.

00:46:37.920 I would say the economic impact of the tariffs was priced in, I would say, even before Liberation Day.

00:46:46.320 Yeah.

00:46:46.960 Americans know what they're getting into as far as this.

00:46:49.360 This is what they voted for.

00:46:50.760 Not all of us.

00:46:51.080 And that's also why, as Michael stated, we are at all-time highs for S&P.

00:46:55.260 And people, inflation is back to 2% to 3%.

00:46:58.220 If I'm not mistaken.

00:46:59.580 And people have more money back to their paychecks.

00:47:02.540 The other thing is the tariffs had nothing to do with the amount of revenue that we were bringing in.

00:47:07.200 It was more about the accountability for other countries.

00:47:11.920 That's a nice distinction.

00:47:13.260 Wait, can I ask you a question?

00:47:14.220 So you voted to have prices raised?

00:47:16.740 I'm confused.

00:47:17.320 Oh, we knew what we were getting into.

00:47:18.440 So you voted to have prices raised.

00:47:20.800 We voted for a president that wasn't going to fall asleep at the table with other leaders.

00:47:25.440 Oh, he's asleep.

00:47:25.640 Yeah, he's just taking $400 million jets, doubling his net worth based off of crypto, and deporting people in the process whatsoever.

00:47:32.840 Yeah, and I would give you that.

00:47:33.980 I 100% agree with that.

00:47:34.900 Can I ask you a question very, very quickly?

00:47:37.240 You can claim that Donald Trump...

00:47:38.700 It seems like you were trying to make the argument that he was rebalancing some of these deficits by holding countries accountable.

00:47:43.980 I would say it's not about accounting for deficits.

00:47:47.060 It's about accountability and how we look on the main stage.

00:47:50.380 It has nothing to do with the revenue.

00:47:51.580 The trade deficit thing, in my humble opinion, the reason that he picked that is because it's so crazy.

00:47:56.880 But you realize we look batshit insane when we're tariffing Switzerland, who we had free trade with.

00:48:01.880 We had free trade with Switzerland, and we're tariffing them.

00:48:04.780 We're tariffing Brazil.

00:48:06.000 We're tariffing islands with nobody that lives there, but not Russia.

00:48:09.380 So the point is, every time someone makes the argument...

00:48:11.380 We don't have major sanctions on Russia, you know.

00:48:13.380 We don't have much trade at all with Russia.

00:48:15.620 We can at least play tariffs.

00:48:18.120 But the point that I'm trying to make is, Donald Trump claims that he is intentionally and targeted...

00:48:23.540 Or people claim that he is trying to hold countries accountable in a targeted way.

00:48:27.080 That's not what's happening.

00:48:27.920 It is broad, sweeping tariffs that make no sense.

00:48:30.120 That you admitted were confusing.

00:48:32.000 And now you guys have to reverse engineer some sort of weird cognitive...

00:48:36.180 No, because look, you make this point about Europe.

00:48:38.740 You're making the point about Switzerland, but let's talk about the European Union.

00:48:40.940 You would say, well, this is crazy.

00:48:42.400 These allies of ours, why are we smacking them with these insane tariffs?

00:48:45.440 And why this doesn't make sense?

00:48:46.360 We need to just put even more sanctions on Russia or whatever.

00:48:49.080 But notice now, we have a great trade deal with the European Union.

00:48:52.260 We're dealing with like a 15% tariff.

00:48:53.940 We got $600 billion from them to invest in our country.

00:48:56.460 So obviously, it was just a way to negotiate.

00:48:58.960 And it also happens to raise revenue and boost manufacturing.

00:49:01.520 Wait a minute.

00:49:02.080 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:49:03.280 Those are ancillary events.

00:49:04.460 Okay, if you're negotiating to reshore manufacturing,

00:49:07.600 then you can't be raising revenue off of tariffs because nobody's going to be importing anything.

00:49:12.420 Yeah, that's what you'd think.

00:49:13.040 It actually takes a very delicate balance to be able to serve all free interest.

00:49:16.600 Oh my lord.

00:49:16.840 So Trump is playing 40 chess right now with other countries.

00:49:19.060 No, it's just the numbers don't lie.

00:49:20.540 Okay, next question.

00:49:21.860 For years, the U.S. has been screwed over by China, Europe, South America.

00:49:29.380 This isn't just about short term.

00:49:31.760 We need to be looking at long term.

00:49:33.760 We need to be looking at five years, 10 years, 20 years.

00:49:38.080 Since NAFTA, we have been screwed over.

00:49:41.180 USA!

00:49:42.060 USA!

00:49:43.280 You make a great point.

00:49:44.420 You make a great point.

00:49:46.160 Stop looking at the last two, three, four, five months.

00:49:49.620 We need to be looking at five years, 10 years, 20 years from now.

00:49:54.520 These tariffs are setting a message that the U.S. will not be screwed over.

00:49:59.320 Amazing.

00:49:59.880 Let me ask you a question.

00:50:01.440 We need to rebalance trade and stop China from ripping us off.

00:50:04.740 And Donald Trump is here to stand up for us.

00:50:07.260 Let me ask you, what deal has he cut with China?

00:50:10.240 We are done.

00:50:11.360 What deal has he cut with China?

00:50:12.600 We don't necessarily need to balance trade.

00:50:13.620 This isn't about right now.

00:50:14.600 What deal has he cut with China?

00:50:15.560 This is about setting the future.

00:50:16.460 This is about setting us up for five years, 10 years, 10 years, 10 years from now.

00:50:19.920 No answer.

00:50:20.660 What deal has he cut with China?

00:50:22.100 I'll give you an answer on it.

00:50:22.760 Because you're saying, well, we need to balance trade.

00:50:24.200 No, no, no.

00:50:24.820 My question is, what deal has he set with China?

00:50:27.360 Because you are saying that he set a deal with China.

00:50:29.280 He has set two 90-day delays.

00:50:31.460 You can't answer what a deal is.

00:50:33.160 He can't answer what a deal is.

00:50:34.520 Nobody can answer what a deal is.

00:50:35.520 I'm trying to answer it to you.

00:50:36.580 Even on the delays, which are obviously strategic,

00:50:39.280 the point of setting the trade equilibrium as being the metric

00:50:43.700 is because it's so crazy and kind of impossible in certain cases.

00:50:47.740 Obviously, what's he going after in China?

00:50:49.900 China's trade issues with us for 25 years have been illegally subsidizing steel,

00:50:53.540 manipulating their currency, stealing our IP, all of these things, right?

00:50:57.100 Now, all of the previous presidents,

00:50:59.560 since we stupidly let China into the World Trade Organization,

00:51:02.100 all of them went at that directly.

00:51:03.500 They got no results whatsoever.

00:51:05.020 Trump comes in like a bull in a China shop, pun intended,

00:51:07.380 and he does it in the first term and he does it in the second term,

00:51:09.260 and he says, no, I'm going to pick this totally random metric,

00:51:12.980 namely the trade deficits,

00:51:14.620 and I'm going to start punching people around until we get better deals on all people.

00:51:18.500 Michael, I'm going to ask my question one more time.

00:51:20.560 What deal did he get with China?

00:51:21.860 What specifically are you asking me?

00:51:25.120 I'm asking you what deal did he get?

00:51:26.800 This person just came up to the mic and said,

00:51:28.480 Trump took office and is going to hold China accountable.

00:51:31.160 All Trump has done is pussyfooted and delayed 90 times,

00:51:34.180 and you're sitting here stuttering.

00:51:35.520 Because you can't get it.

00:51:36.860 Okay, then answer the deal.

00:51:37.800 What deal has he cut with China?

00:51:39.660 No, no, shut up.

00:51:40.500 What deal has he cut with China?

00:51:41.980 No, but I think...

00:51:43.300 No, listen, answer right now.

00:51:44.500 But Adam, we've been addressing your point,

00:51:45.960 because you're saying he didn't get a deal quickly enough.

00:51:48.300 He didn't get a deal in 30 days or 60 days.

00:51:50.360 There's no deal.

00:51:50.740 What's his framework?

00:51:51.800 But you're saying I don't like...

00:51:54.000 You're looking at the short term.

00:51:55.820 This is a long term play.

00:51:56.980 If your point is, Adam,

00:51:58.700 well, Trump hasn't gotten this trade deal done within 30 or 60 or 90 days,

00:52:02.320 I ask, where's Joe Biden's trade deal?

00:52:03.660 It's been 200 days.

00:52:04.220 Where's Barack Obama's great trade deal?

00:52:05.400 Joe Biden put target...

00:52:06.480 Listen, Joe Biden put targeted tariffs on China.

00:52:12.240 He didn't put tariffs on the world like a retard.

00:52:14.880 I'm sorry.

00:52:15.640 He's not a retard.

00:52:16.280 Stop talking.

00:52:17.060 It's very ableist.

00:52:17.960 Stop talking.

00:52:18.880 I don't care.

00:52:19.320 Wokeness is dead.

00:52:20.980 Wokeness is dead, Michael.

00:52:22.020 Wokeness is dead.

00:52:22.780 That's true.

00:52:23.260 Okay, I'm going to say something.

00:52:24.580 Yeah, Ceci.

00:52:25.200 Ceci.

00:52:25.560 I am totally here.

00:52:27.180 I'm so here for doing more American manufacturing, more exporting.

00:52:31.420 I totally agree with that.

00:52:33.120 But you guys know that Trump has all his shit made in China, right?

00:52:37.360 Okay, I just want to point out the hypocrisy there.

00:52:39.080 No, he doesn't.

00:52:39.540 That's not true.

00:52:39.680 That's a calumny.

00:52:40.380 He makes his stuff in America.

00:52:41.420 He actually does.

00:52:42.420 Okay.

00:52:42.740 He does.

00:52:43.000 I have the hat.

00:52:43.440 I got the hat in 2016.

00:52:44.840 It's made in America.

00:52:45.340 Who the fuck has the hat on right now?

00:52:46.080 It is.

00:52:46.560 It is.

00:52:46.960 It's great.

00:52:47.580 There are a lot of knockoffs, though.

00:52:49.320 That's another way China's stealing our IP.

00:52:51.120 They're stealing our MAGA hat.

00:52:52.000 Can I point something out very quickly?

00:52:53.480 Yeah.

00:52:54.140 I got to have one topic tonight, and it was tariffs.

00:52:56.960 I think I just ran around the room on tariffs because you couldn't name a deal.

00:53:00.280 You couldn't name a deal.

00:53:00.880 What are you talking about?

00:53:01.580 And nobody could name anything that Trump has accomplished.

00:53:03.740 Hold on.

00:53:04.040 Hold on.

00:53:04.680 Adam.

00:53:05.040 Adam.

00:53:05.640 You brought up tariffs, and I was happy to talk about it.

00:53:07.740 You said it was a disaster for the American people.

00:53:10.180 You said it was confusing.

00:53:11.020 I asked you to cite a specific economic measure by which it was a disaster.

00:53:15.160 You couldn't.

00:53:15.660 I cited every economic measure, which is an all-time minus.

00:53:18.180 You want me to cite a few?

00:53:19.660 I asked you to already.

00:53:21.180 I got you.

00:53:21.640 Negative 0.5.

00:53:22.880 GDP contracted in the first quarter.

00:53:24.760 PPI is going up.

00:53:26.040 Electricity has gone up 10%.

00:53:27.540 And all of that-

00:53:28.440 Electricity has gone up.

00:53:29.160 That's the best you got.

00:53:30.000 Give me a break.

00:53:30.280 Give me a break.

00:53:30.560 And all of that is because the tariffs have not come into place yet.

00:53:32.980 The tariffs have not even really started.

00:53:34.760 So hold on.

00:53:35.080 14 days ago.

00:53:35.760 The tariffs have destroyed our economy, but they also haven't come into place yet.

00:53:38.340 When did I say the destroyed our economy has something even an unmitigated disaster, Michael?

00:53:42.380 Okay.

00:53:42.920 Okay.

00:53:43.420 So the tariffs, which don't exist, have been terrible.

00:53:46.000 Now, who is the VIP of that round?

00:53:48.240 I say the USA guy, right?

00:53:50.120 Where is he?

00:53:50.520 Which one was that?

00:53:51.280 All right.

00:53:51.680 There we go.

00:53:52.220 There we go.

00:53:53.040 Now, VIP table.

00:53:55.140 You blessed few.

00:53:56.480 I have a question.

00:53:58.140 Molly, you can relay this.

00:53:59.920 Did we solve the world's problems?

00:54:03.840 If not, if not, we didn't.

00:54:05.740 If not, is there something you would like us to hash out in our final remaining moments

00:54:10.720 before the music comes back on?

00:54:13.660 So, okay, okay.

00:54:15.020 Mr. Panel, you keep saying that Michael couldn't name a deal.

00:54:19.240 He couldn't name a deal.

00:54:20.420 Are you going to name a China deal?

00:54:21.480 Name it.

00:54:22.100 No, I'm not going to try to do it.

00:54:22.760 The trick is there's no deal yet.

00:54:25.580 That's the big trick of the question.

00:54:26.900 First of all, okay, deals take time.

00:54:29.620 And in order to strike a deal, China's not going to do it because they're nice, okay?

00:54:34.860 You need to put pressure on them.

00:54:36.940 You need them to bleed for a long, let me finish, for a long period of time, okay?

00:54:42.720 And so, my understanding is Trump's putting a tariff so they bleed for a long period of

00:54:47.020 time, and then they come to the table and there's a negotiation.

00:54:50.880 What else should he do?

00:54:52.240 What can we add?

00:54:53.940 President Mockler.

00:54:55.380 What should Donald Trump add to the tariffs?

00:54:57.400 Maybe some f***ing clarity to the tariffs.

00:54:59.280 When it comes to China, he has not gotten a single deal, and I guess there are ways to

00:55:04.920 do this.

00:55:05.160 You're just restating the question.

00:55:06.100 What specifically, what would you make clear if you're going to add clarity?

00:55:09.780 Okay, what Donald Trump does is he sets these arbitrary deadlines and pushes them back.

00:55:14.000 When Donald Trump set that first 90-day deadline with China-

00:55:16.280 You're evading the question.

00:55:16.740 No, no.

00:55:17.000 You're totally evading the question.

00:55:17.800 Clarity with deadlines.

00:55:19.020 I'm asking you right now.

00:55:19.860 Clarity with deadlines.

00:55:20.680 Deadlines, okay.

00:55:21.220 He set a 90-day deadline with China.

00:55:23.180 What did he do to that 90-day deadline?

00:55:24.700 Wait, let me listen.

00:55:25.720 What did he do to that 90-day deadline?

00:55:27.200 Trump has pushed deadlines.

00:55:28.380 Now answer the question.

00:55:29.740 Maybe not push deadlines and hold people accountable.

00:55:32.220 He's pushed a deadline back and back and back.

00:55:34.200 Okay, don't push deadlines.

00:55:35.180 Anything else?

00:55:36.100 You can tariff the countries that China trades with to put pressure on them.

00:55:39.400 There are so many ways to place pressure on China.

00:55:41.620 What Donald Trump is doing is f***ing around.

00:55:43.560 He's not getting a single deal.

00:55:44.420 But he is tariffing countries that China trades.

00:55:46.400 You bleed China by tariffing Vietnam.

00:55:48.440 But he's already doing that.

00:55:49.100 Tariffing the countries surrounding them.

00:55:50.800 He's already doing that.

00:55:51.960 He's tariffing Brazil more.

00:55:53.580 He tariffed the whole world.

00:55:54.400 He's tariffing Brazil more.

00:55:56.100 But he's tariffing literally every country on earth.

00:55:58.920 What he's doing is destroying our relationships.

00:56:00.280 So he's already doing that.

00:56:01.120 Is there anything that Trump is not doing, because you're so upset about his China policy,

00:56:05.520 is there anything he's not doing that you would do other than do it faster or whatever?

00:56:10.380 Wait, can I ask you a quick question right here?

00:56:12.300 Sure.

00:56:13.240 You said that it takes time to do trade deals.

00:56:15.640 Wasn't Trump's entire motto 90 deals in 90 days?

00:56:18.820 I mean, that's what he said.

00:56:20.180 Okay, wait.

00:56:20.720 Didn't he also say he'll end the Ukraine war on day one?

00:56:23.400 Can I ask you guys in the crowd?

00:56:24.560 Did he get 90 deals in 90 days?

00:56:26.700 No.

00:56:27.180 Did he end the war?

00:56:28.140 No.

00:56:28.760 This dude is a weak dude who does not know what to do.

00:56:31.620 Who else is trying to defend America?

00:56:35.260 Who else is trying to tariff every country like a retard?

00:56:37.820 Who else is giving their effort 24-7 for our country?

00:56:42.460 Who else is trying to save America like Donald Trump?

00:56:46.500 Who else is waking up to save America?

00:56:49.200 No, let me say something.

00:56:51.040 Who else is trying like Trump?

00:56:51.600 No, let me say something.

00:56:52.700 When you want to make a f***ing deal with someone, you need to schmooze.

00:56:55.600 You need to do this and that.

00:56:56.640 You don't bully people and strongman them.

00:56:58.980 You need an old tomato.

00:56:59.880 Because the reality is...

00:57:01.160 Adam's point, Adam's complaining that Trump is schmoozing and being too diplomatic,

00:57:04.980 and he's saying he's got to bully him or get him to ask him.

00:57:06.640 No, I'm saying that he's perpetually pushing back deadlines and he looks like a b***y.

00:57:09.940 You guys are disagreeing now.

00:57:11.200 You had a 90-day deadline.

00:57:12.240 Okay, listen.

00:57:13.060 You're agreeing with us and with the VIP table.

00:57:14.900 Can I ask you a question?

00:57:16.020 Do you remember when Trump said there would be severe consequences on Vladimir Putin if

00:57:20.360 they did not get a deal in Alaska?

00:57:21.780 He said severe consequences.

00:57:23.560 He left that meeting and not only were there not severe consequences, but Donald Trump has

00:57:27.460 since adopted Putin's position.

00:57:29.380 You see the same framework when it comes to...

00:57:31.060 Adopted Putin's position?

00:57:31.400 What are you talking about?

00:57:31.940 I will answer in one second.

00:57:33.000 You see the same framework when it comes to tariffs.

00:57:34.700 You asked me what I would do differently.

00:57:36.060 I would add clarity and I would finish the deadlines.

00:57:38.220 He put a 90-day deadline on China.

00:57:39.920 When we hit that 90 days, our president delayed it to another 90 days.

00:57:43.700 Answer, you can't say, I'd be clear and fast.

00:57:45.920 Clear and fast about what?

00:57:47.500 Then you say, I would tariff other countries.

00:57:49.300 He's already doing that and you were complaining about it.

00:57:51.060 So what was the other thing that you would do?

00:57:53.360 I would not tariff all countries.

00:57:54.820 I would just not even start with the tariffs.

00:57:56.680 I would not start with the tariffs.

00:57:57.820 You would not tariff anybody.

00:57:58.980 Well, you would also tariff all the countries around China.

00:58:00.620 Okay, how about this?

00:58:01.140 Okay.

00:58:01.440 I would do targeted tariffs against China like Trump did in his first administration.

00:58:05.440 Okay.

00:58:06.040 What Trump is doing is tearing up trade deals that he negotiated himself.

00:58:09.180 If your problem with Trump second admin is you'd prefer the Trump first admin, that's

00:58:14.060 a pretty good criticism.

00:58:14.940 Can I answer your question about Putin?

00:58:15.600 That's okay.

00:58:16.040 That's all right.

00:58:16.260 Can I answer your question about Putin?

00:58:17.740 Sure.

00:58:18.400 When Donald Trump went into this deal, went into this Alaska meeting, he was promising

00:58:22.940 a ceasefire, right?

00:58:24.560 He asked for a ceasefire.

00:58:26.040 He said there would be severe consequences if there was no ceasefire.

00:58:28.800 Yeah, yeah.

00:58:29.560 After he left, guys, it's a free country.

00:58:33.000 It's a free country.

00:58:33.980 After he left, what he did is he said, I don't want a ceasefire anymore.

00:58:37.640 I want a peace deal.

00:58:39.460 What that has allowed Putin to do is not negotiate for short-term peace.

00:58:42.700 He has killed hundreds of civilians in Ukraine since Donald Trump said he doesn't want a ceasefire.

00:58:47.940 What Donald Trump is doing is falling into the Putin framework of using negotiations to

00:58:52.140 inevitably delay.

00:58:53.520 What Russia does, they're smart, dude.

00:58:55.160 They're very, very smart.

00:58:56.120 Interesting.

00:58:56.440 They delay.

00:58:57.080 They kill people.

00:58:57.580 So hold on.

00:58:58.060 So hold on.

00:58:58.700 Your issue with Trump convening a summit in Alaska, getting Putin there, then convening Zelensky

00:59:04.660 and the European leaders three days later in the White House to work on not just a ceasefire

00:59:08.580 but a broader peace deal.

00:59:09.700 Your problem is you say, well, the war is going on three extra days and civilians are

00:59:13.160 dying.

00:59:13.520 No.

00:59:13.680 I don't remember you saying any of that when Joe Biden was president, encouraging the

00:59:17.160 war to continue.

00:59:17.960 I don't remember hearing that.

00:59:19.060 He was not encouraging the war to continue.

00:59:19.940 He absolutely was encouraging the war.

00:59:21.920 Joe Biden and, unfortunately, not only the Democrats but many squishes on the Republican

00:59:26.800 Party were advocating for the war from a grand strategic standpoint because they said it was

00:59:31.600 degrading the Russian military and it was a meat grinder in Ukraine.

00:59:34.460 No.

00:59:34.520 They were advocating for more deaths and for the war to go on.

00:59:36.960 And the only party that was calling for peace at all was the Republican Party.

00:59:40.380 No.

00:59:40.480 This is not peace.

00:59:41.100 And the only president on whose watch Vladimir Putin has not further invaded a country in

00:59:45.140 the last quarter century is Donald Trump.

00:59:46.880 Let's be real here.

00:59:47.800 You all saw, maybe you all saw, the whole meeting between Trump and Putin.

00:59:52.880 Trump is Putin's bitch.

00:59:54.280 He sat down and spoke before our president.

00:59:58.040 I'm sorry.

00:59:58.660 Well, it's so strange.

00:59:59.680 I don't know.

01:00:00.020 I don't know.

01:00:00.740 Trump has levied much tougher sanctions on Vladimir Putin than Barack Obama or Joe Biden.

01:00:05.960 That's kind of strange.

01:00:06.880 No, he is not.

01:00:07.660 No, he is not.

01:00:08.480 He didn't.

01:00:09.000 And he didn't lift sanctions.

01:00:10.720 And his first term you're talking about, maybe.

01:00:12.720 Are you talking about his first term?

01:00:13.880 Well, we're seven months into this term and he's calling for-

01:00:16.100 Can I just say, the only way to end this war is to make it such that Vladimir Putin is

01:00:19.040 facing such severe consequences that he will never reinvade.

01:00:21.780 Russia has a strategy of launching an invasion.

01:00:24.760 Then they pause that invasion.

01:00:26.240 Then they reinvade.

01:00:27.100 They've done it with multiple countries.

01:00:28.420 They did it in 2008, in 2014, in 2022.

01:00:31.240 We cannot allow-

01:00:32.180 You're right.

01:00:32.420 They did it under Bush and Obama and Biden and not Trump.

01:00:35.920 That's really weird, isn't it?

01:00:36.700 How come through Trump's-

01:00:37.300 I think I'll go with Trump's strategy.

01:00:38.400 Wait, through Trump's four years, Crimea was occupied-

01:00:41.480 Almost five years now.

01:00:42.160 Yeah.

01:00:42.620 No, I mean, his first four years, Crimea was occupied.

01:00:45.140 Right, but he didn't further invade, is what I said.

01:00:46.700 But the thing is, Russia has a strategy of launching an invasion, pausing that, then reinvading.

01:00:53.420 We need a peace deal that makes sure Russia cannot just reinvade.

01:00:56.380 Listen, I agree.

01:00:57.320 I thought the Obama doctrine, as written by Jeffrey Goldberg in the Atlantic interviewing

01:01:01.400 the president, that said that Vladimir Putin could operate within his strategic sphere

01:01:05.220 of influence.

01:01:05.800 I agree.

01:01:06.240 I thought that was terrible.

01:01:06.680 I agree as well, Michael.

01:01:07.580 Is there one more question at the microphone?

01:01:09.580 So, Michael, do you think that women should work only in the kitchens or pursue their careers?

01:01:14.560 I think they can work in the living room, too.

01:01:16.420 There are other rooms, also, that are even more enjoyable.

01:01:19.720 Okay, folks, that's our show.

01:01:21.280 I want to thank Ceci and Adam for being here.

01:01:24.040 I want to thank all of you for being here.

01:01:25.920 Now, before we go, in my view, I'm very diplomatic, as you know.

01:01:32.900 I'm a lover, not a fighter.

01:01:34.100 I find nobody wins a bar fight.

01:01:37.120 People only lose bar fights.

01:01:38.920 So, I want to know, of the three people up here, who do you think lost the bar fight?

01:01:45.160 And I will, I'm going to, they're yelling at poor Adam.

01:01:48.900 Okay, so I'm going to, do you, what about, is it me?

01:01:52.760 Thank you.

01:01:54.440 Totally not biased, either.

01:01:55.660 That's really, okay.

01:01:56.920 Is it Ceci?

01:02:02.260 I almost hesitate.

01:02:04.260 I almost hesitate.

01:02:06.540 Was it Adam?

01:02:07.820 Was it Adam?

01:02:08.640 It was.

01:02:15.860 We put up a fight.

01:02:17.020 We put up a fight.

01:02:18.020 We put up a fight.

01:02:18.620 All right, well, after that.

01:02:20.740 You're wearing a wig, brother.

01:02:22.820 You're wearing a wig, sister.

01:02:24.040 Oh, and he took his off.

01:02:25.660 I can't even hear you, bro.

01:02:27.040 I can't even hear you.

01:02:27.700 All right, before an actual bar fight breaks out, let's go get Adam a drink for that.

01:02:31.520 That was terrible treatment he got.

01:02:33.600 Thank you very much to both of you for being here.

01:02:35.860 Thank you to all of you.

01:02:36.760 Kylie, close us out.

01:02:37.600 Thank you.

01:02:37.720 You guys were awesome.

01:02:38.640 I got three words.

01:02:39.640 I got three words.

01:02:40.640 God, guns, and Trump.

01:02:42.940 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh!

The Michael Knowles Show - October 04, 2025

Michael Knowles DEBATES Two Liberals ｜ Bar Fight ft. Adam Mockler & Cecilia Rae

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