The Michael Knowles Show - February 08, 2025


Michael Knowles Live at YAF - ＂Ordo Amoris： The Hierarchy of Political Love＂


Episode Stats

Length

46 minutes

Words per Minute

162.05138

Word Count

7,590

Sentence Count

172

Misogynist Sentences

10

Hate Speech Sentences

34


Summary

Learn English with William F. Buckley Jr. at the YAF lecture series in San Diego, California on January 20th, 2020, where he delivered a monologue on immigration reform and the need for a border patrol force to enforce immigration laws.


Transcript

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00:00:30.000 Big Mike, I love it.
00:00:35.140 Oh, wow.
00:00:35.960 That's a good nickname.
00:00:38.380 It's been applied to other people in politics,
00:00:40.620 but I'd like it to be referring to me.
00:00:43.480 Thank you very much for having me.
00:00:46.140 Thank you for the invitation.
00:00:47.780 It is a true pleasure to be here.
00:00:50.500 Thank you to YAF.
00:00:51.960 Especially thank you to YAF for the honor of allowing me to participate
00:00:56.020 in the William F. Buckley Jr. lecture series.
00:00:59.280 I'm a great admirer of the great man.
00:01:04.740 I've tried to perfect his accent over the years.
00:01:08.940 I'm not quite patrician enough.
00:01:11.840 I spent too much time in the Bronx,
00:01:14.800 but I'll work on it over the course of this lecture series.
00:01:17.620 It is always so nice to be here in San Diego.
00:01:22.500 I feel even better about it now that we have a functioning southern border again.
00:01:28.500 We are less than 20 miles from Tijuana,
00:01:40.560 but since January 20th,
00:01:43.380 our odds of running into face-tattooed foreign gangsters have dropped precipitously.
00:01:49.080 I suspect they will drop even further as this administration goes on.
00:01:54.820 Now, the gangsters from other countries who are still here are most likely in hiding right now.
00:02:01.980 They know that at any moment Tom Homan might leap out from around a corner
00:02:06.320 with a big butterfly net and just drag them all back to Latin America.
00:02:10.980 So this is a happy turn of events.
00:02:15.080 But some on the left seem not to realize it.
00:02:19.440 Some on the left argue,
00:02:21.380 some even on the squishy right, I'm afraid, argue,
00:02:24.740 that rounding up and deporting even the very worst illegal aliens in our country
00:02:29.500 is somehow anti-American.
00:02:33.060 That's very strange to me.
00:02:34.280 Because whatever you think of mass deportation,
00:02:38.420 it's quite silly to argue that it's not American.
00:02:43.200 Deporting people is a tried and true American tradition, actually.
00:02:47.840 Whether we're talking about the 1830s or the Palmer Raids in 1919 and 1920,
00:02:54.860 that was when we deported foreign communists.
00:02:57.580 Apparently, we didn't deport enough.
00:02:59.040 Whether we're talking about deportations during the Second World War,
00:03:03.780 during the 1950s of some million people in a single year in 1954,
00:03:08.800 whether we're talking about the deportation of Haitians and Cubans
00:03:12.440 who arrived during the Mariel boatlift in 1980,
00:03:15.200 or any other number of deportations,
00:03:19.120 one can argue over the necessity or prudence of those various deportations,
00:03:24.340 most of which, ironically, were carried out under Democrat presidents.
00:03:28.120 But no one can argue that they're not American.
00:03:31.900 As a simple matter of history,
00:03:34.260 mass deportations are as American as apple pie.
00:03:38.140 The anti-American charge vanquished.
00:03:41.540 Opponents of immigration enforcement will next argue
00:03:44.540 that deportations are somehow anti-Christian.
00:03:49.580 This claim is contradicted by the plain text of Scripture.
00:03:53.800 Deportations, or worse, usually worse,
00:03:55.980 are frequently carried out with the approval of God in the Bible.
00:04:00.980 Just ask the Canaanites, or the Hittites, or the Jebusites,
00:04:06.060 or the Perizzites, or the Hivites, a lot of people.
00:04:09.500 Now, in fairness, Scripture also instructs us
00:04:13.080 not to oppress or mistreat foreigners who live in our lands.
00:04:17.700 Thus, thou shalt not molest a stranger, nor afflict him,
00:04:22.320 for yourselves also were strangers in the land of Egypt.
00:04:25.720 Quite right?
00:04:27.340 But what exactly does it mean to molest or afflict the stranger?
00:04:32.560 We are not left idly to wonder.
00:04:34.420 Scripture actually tells us.
00:04:36.620 Just ten chapters prior, in the book of Exodus,
00:04:39.760 we read, quote,
00:04:40.600 There shall be one law for the native
00:04:44.300 and for the stranger who sojourns among you.
00:04:47.160 Further, in Deuteronomy, we read,
00:04:49.680 Cursed be he who perverts the justice due to the sojourner.
00:04:55.040 To hear the open borders crowd tell it,
00:04:57.740 it is the enforcement of the law which oppresses the foreigner.
00:05:01.780 But Scripture says precisely the opposite.
00:05:05.420 Scripture tells us that it is lawlessness
00:05:07.960 which oppresses the foreigner.
00:05:10.960 The injunction not to oppress the foreigner
00:05:12.820 does not run contrary to justice.
00:05:15.860 Rather, it is bound up in the execution of justice.
00:05:20.440 God demands that the civil authority
00:05:22.340 give the foreigner his due.
00:05:24.780 He does not demand that he give him more than his due.
00:05:28.900 He tells us that there must be one law
00:05:30.860 common to native and foreigner alike.
00:05:32.620 He does not insist that foreigners be given a more lenient law,
00:05:36.740 that foreigners be given special privileges
00:05:39.080 over and above those afforded to citizens.
00:05:42.400 Civil authorities must give appropriate care to foreigners.
00:05:47.260 But civil authorities have to care for their own citizens, too.
00:05:51.680 So how do we determine the right balance
00:05:54.780 between hospitality to foreigners
00:05:56.620 and the enforcement of justice owed to citizens and foreigners alike?
00:06:00.980 Our vice president, J.D. Vance,
00:06:04.020 took a stab at this question on TV last week,
00:06:07.020 and his answer sparked a national debate.
00:06:10.380 Vice President Vance said, quote,
00:06:12.600 these are his exact words,
00:06:13.960 not taking anything out of context.
00:06:16.160 He said, there's this old school,
00:06:18.160 and I think very Christian concept, by the way,
00:06:20.700 that you love your family,
00:06:22.680 and then you love your neighbor,
00:06:24.000 and then you love your community,
00:06:25.300 and then you love your fellow citizens
00:06:26.660 and your own country,
00:06:28.200 and then after that,
00:06:29.160 you can focus and prioritize the rest of the world.
00:06:32.700 This is a simple enough concept,
00:06:34.940 I think at least.
00:06:36.380 Let's say you're walking by a swimming pool,
00:06:38.520 and you see a random little kid drowning.
00:06:41.520 Any decent person would jump in to save the kid.
00:06:44.600 This actually happened to my father a few years ago.
00:06:46.680 He was walking by a pool at his condominium,
00:06:49.420 and he saw a kid drowning,
00:06:50.220 he jumps in,
00:06:51.220 pulls the kid out of the pool,
00:06:52.580 everyone applauds,
00:06:53.580 you're a hero.
00:06:54.000 Now, imagine you are walking past the same swimming pool.
00:06:59.960 It's a very large swimming pool.
00:07:01.860 And you see two kids drowning,
00:07:04.360 each one at a different end.
00:07:06.780 One of the toddlers is that same random kid
00:07:09.180 you saw the first time.
00:07:10.740 The other one is your own son.
00:07:13.560 You, being a decent person,
00:07:16.080 want to save both of them.
00:07:18.760 But what do you do?
00:07:20.460 You help your own son first, of course.
00:07:22.540 In fact, if you did not,
00:07:25.620 if you were to ignore the cries of your own son
00:07:28.360 and go to help the other boy first,
00:07:31.140 everyone would not applaud you
00:07:32.900 when you climbed out of the pool.
00:07:34.760 You would not be a hero.
00:07:36.640 You would have made a moral error
00:07:38.660 because you, as a father,
00:07:41.240 have a greater responsibility
00:07:42.980 to your own son
00:07:44.640 than you do to someone else's son.
00:07:47.480 This is common sense.
00:07:48.700 But is it Christian?
00:07:51.360 That's the question.
00:07:53.440 Immediately after Vance's remarks,
00:07:56.760 a former U.K. government minister
00:07:58.800 turned Yale professor,
00:08:01.060 that's not a good sign,
00:08:03.200 this is Rory Stewart,
00:08:05.700 he said no.
00:08:07.040 He wrote a bizarre take
00:08:09.540 on John 15, 12 to 13,
00:08:12.520 which, for those of you
00:08:14.060 who don't have your Bibles in front,
00:08:15.140 I know Governor Walker can do this from memory,
00:08:18.040 but some of you might not be
00:08:19.400 quite as biblically literate,
00:08:20.860 so I'll read it.
00:08:21.580 I'm not as biblically literate.
00:08:22.860 He says,
00:08:23.420 This is my commandment,
00:08:24.500 that you love one another
00:08:25.480 as I've loved you.
00:08:26.720 Greater love has no man
00:08:28.240 that a man lay down his life for his friends.
00:08:30.640 One of the most famous lines in the Bible.
00:08:33.500 He says,
00:08:33.920 This comment was ironic, of course,
00:08:50.980 because Rory Stewart is himself a politician
00:08:53.800 who is presuming to speak for Jesus.
00:08:56.940 He is presuming to speak for our Lord
00:08:58.860 with far less knowledge and seriousness
00:09:01.120 than J.D. Vance.
00:09:02.520 J.D. shot back.
00:09:03.460 He wrote,
00:09:04.440 Just Google Ordo Amoris,
00:09:08.160 which means order of love,
00:09:09.520 a concept developed most notably
00:09:11.100 by St. Thomas Aquinas.
00:09:13.580 Now, could we just take a quick pause for a moment?
00:09:16.300 Could we just have a moment
00:09:17.960 to appreciate how beautiful it is
00:09:20.760 that we live in a time
00:09:23.520 in which the Vice President of the United States
00:09:26.520 is lecturing leftists
00:09:28.400 on moral philosophy in Latin?
00:09:30.520 Woo!
00:09:31.020 Woo!
00:09:31.620 Woo!
00:09:32.020 Woo!
00:09:32.060 Woo!
00:09:32.120 Woo!
00:09:33.460 I knew, I knew the second Trump administration
00:09:42.580 was going to be good, okay?
00:09:43.980 I had high hopes.
00:09:45.740 Even I did not have
00:09:47.100 Vice President
00:09:48.420 explicating scholastic philosophy in Latin
00:09:51.380 kind of hopes.
00:09:52.340 That was not
00:09:52.960 on my bingo card.
00:09:54.960 I remember in 2016
00:09:56.520 I remember in 2016
00:09:56.560 after the primaries
00:09:58.480 general election comes about
00:09:59.840 there were many who didn't
00:10:01.580 they didn't want to vote for Trump
00:10:02.500 and people yelled at me
00:10:05.020 many of my friends yelled at me
00:10:06.240 because I said
00:10:06.700 I think I'm going to vote for Trump
00:10:07.700 and they said
00:10:08.100 he's not really conservative.
00:10:11.020 Well, look
00:10:12.060 whatever was going on then
00:10:13.400 now his Vice President
00:10:15.100 is invoking
00:10:15.940 St. Thomas Aquinas
00:10:16.960 in Latin on Twitter.
00:10:18.080 That is as conservative as it gets.
00:10:19.800 You know, there is no greater depth
00:10:22.060 I think
00:10:23.040 of conservatism.
00:10:25.280 But I digress.
00:10:27.060 At this point
00:10:27.860 in the conversation
00:10:29.120 after J.D.
00:10:30.420 had dunked on the
00:10:31.580 UK politician
00:10:32.920 turned Yale professor
00:10:33.960 another Yale figure
00:10:35.560 James
00:10:36.980 Surowiecki
00:10:38.580 editor of the Yale Review
00:10:40.360 he decided to chime in
00:10:42.840 to claim that
00:10:43.740 Ordo Amoris
00:10:45.280 is not
00:10:46.320 in the Gospels.
00:10:48.220 He claimed
00:10:48.740 it's an essentially
00:10:50.180 Aristotelian concept
00:10:52.300 that Aquinas
00:10:53.520 cleverly
00:10:54.680 if unconvincingly
00:10:56.380 imported
00:10:57.840 into Catholic theology.
00:11:00.580 Up until this point
00:11:01.520 up until this point
00:11:02.820 I was aware
00:11:03.580 that very few people
00:11:05.680 presently associated
00:11:07.120 with Yale
00:11:07.680 had even a passing
00:11:09.280 familiarity
00:11:09.960 with the Bible.
00:11:10.580 With that comment
00:11:13.000 it became clear
00:11:14.120 that these Yale luminaries
00:11:15.680 did not even
00:11:16.820 know their Aristotle.
00:11:19.040 This is very
00:11:20.080 very embarrassing.
00:11:21.300 I don't know
00:11:21.600 what has gotten up
00:11:22.460 in New Haven
00:11:23.120 but someone needs
00:11:24.480 to investigate that.
00:11:27.040 The Ordo Amoris
00:11:28.420 or the Ordo Caritatis
00:11:30.960 as St. Thomas Aquinas
00:11:31.980 would call it
00:11:32.520 is not
00:11:33.640 essentially
00:11:34.800 Aristotelian
00:11:36.020 and St. Thomas
00:11:37.420 among the clearest thinkers
00:11:38.520 ever to live
00:11:39.400 did not import
00:11:40.780 that or any other concept
00:11:42.640 unconvincingly
00:11:44.080 into Catholic theology.
00:11:46.900 Aristotle touches
00:11:47.900 on the concept
00:11:48.720 broadly in Book 4
00:11:49.980 of the Nicomachean Ethics
00:11:51.400 in which he writes
00:11:52.880 that the liberal man
00:11:53.840 liberal in this case
00:11:55.500 meaning generous
00:11:56.220 not meaning crazy
00:11:58.380 says
00:11:59.300 the liberal man
00:12:01.960 like other virtuous men
00:12:03.340 will give
00:12:04.280 for the sake
00:12:05.000 of the noble
00:12:05.560 and rightly
00:12:06.200 for he will give
00:12:07.280 to the right people
00:12:08.000 the right amounts
00:12:08.980 and at the right time
00:12:10.180 with all other qualifications
00:12:11.860 that accompany
00:12:12.600 right giving.
00:12:14.380 Early Christian writers
00:12:15.460 notably
00:12:15.980 Saints
00:12:16.660 Augustine
00:12:17.540 Gregory the Great
00:12:18.600 Bernard of Clairvaux
00:12:19.960 they also discussed
00:12:21.940 this order of charity
00:12:23.460 which St. Thomas
00:12:24.820 brings
00:12:25.360 to its fullest expression
00:12:27.280 and he brings it
00:12:28.460 to its fullest expression
00:12:29.340 in the Summa Theologiae
00:12:30.700 Secunda Secunda
00:12:31.380 at question 26
00:12:32.840 where he writes
00:12:34.080 quote
00:12:34.380 there must needs be
00:12:36.740 some order
00:12:38.060 in things loved
00:12:39.200 out of charity
00:12:39.960 which order
00:12:41.160 is in reference
00:12:41.820 to the first principle
00:12:42.760 of that love
00:12:43.380 which is God.
00:12:45.740 So
00:12:46.040 we are obligated
00:12:48.100 as a matter of reason
00:12:50.320 to love God
00:12:52.080 before ourselves
00:12:53.440 this according
00:12:54.880 to St. Thomas
00:12:55.520 and to reason
00:12:56.400 you know
00:12:58.020 one in the same
00:12:58.700 frequently
00:12:59.080 when we read
00:12:59.620 St. Thomas Aquinas
00:13:00.380 we are obligated
00:13:01.420 to love God first
00:13:02.380 then we love ourselves
00:13:03.920 then we are obligated
00:13:06.080 to love ourselves
00:13:07.440 before our neighbors
00:13:08.560 then to love our neighbors
00:13:10.180 before our own bodies
00:13:11.580 then to love
00:13:13.280 those neighbors
00:13:14.260 nearer to us
00:13:15.260 sooner than those
00:13:16.500 further away
00:13:17.180 then to love
00:13:18.120 those connected to us
00:13:19.320 by ties of blood
00:13:20.500 before others
00:13:21.540 and so on
00:13:22.560 and so forth.
00:13:24.180 And Thomas'
00:13:24.700 reasoning is
00:13:25.440 as always
00:13:26.020 clear and persuasive
00:13:27.720 though we don't have time
00:13:29.460 to get into all of it
00:13:30.240 so maybe
00:13:30.780 if anyone's interested
00:13:31.560 we can get into it
00:13:32.300 in the Q&A
00:13:32.800 for our purposes
00:13:35.580 right now
00:13:36.160 that very first line
00:13:38.320 about loving God
00:13:39.840 before we love ourselves
00:13:41.540 suffices to prove
00:13:43.200 that the Yale Review guy
00:13:44.880 had absolutely no idea
00:13:46.380 what he was talking about
00:13:47.380 when he claimed
00:13:48.340 that the Ordo Amoris
00:13:49.780 is not in the Gospels.
00:13:51.560 Not only is the Ordo Amoris
00:13:53.620 in the Gospels
00:13:54.780 it is the principle
00:13:56.720 that is articulated
00:13:57.660 in the most famous line
00:13:59.440 of the Gospels
00:14:00.280 Matthew chapter 22
00:14:02.140 37 to 39
00:14:03.300 you shall love
00:14:04.580 the Lord your God
00:14:05.900 with all your heart
00:14:06.800 and with all your soul
00:14:08.180 and with all your mind
00:14:09.260 this is the great
00:14:10.640 and first commandment
00:14:11.640 and a second is like it
00:14:13.020 you shall love
00:14:13.700 your neighbor
00:14:14.240 as yourself.
00:14:16.320 There is
00:14:17.120 in other words
00:14:17.740 an order of charity
00:14:20.420 a hierarchy of love
00:14:22.320 and this order
00:14:23.620 is the very foundation
00:14:25.620 of Christian morality.
00:14:27.660 We must love God first
00:14:29.040 and only then
00:14:30.120 and upon that basis
00:14:31.300 do we love everything else.
00:14:33.340 This order
00:14:33.940 does not just
00:14:35.260 comprise two categories.
00:14:38.040 It's not just God
00:14:39.040 and everyone else.
00:14:41.220 We find further
00:14:42.140 scriptural evidence
00:14:43.040 of the order of charity
00:14:43.900 in 1 Timothy chapter 5
00:14:45.800 verse 8.
00:14:46.220 If anyone does not
00:14:48.080 provide for his relatives
00:14:49.060 and especially
00:14:49.980 for his own family
00:14:50.940 he has disowned the faith
00:14:52.600 and is worse
00:14:53.380 than an unbeliever.
00:14:55.020 A man does not
00:14:56.260 necessarily disown the faith
00:14:57.760 he's not necessarily
00:14:58.660 worse than an unbeliever
00:14:59.780 if he does not care
00:15:01.240 for some random guy
00:15:02.120 on the other side
00:15:02.620 of the world
00:15:03.040 if he does not
00:15:04.320 send all of his money
00:15:05.160 to the IRS
00:15:05.820 to give to USAID
00:15:07.060 to fund transgender
00:15:08.420 ballet performances
00:15:09.300 in Thailand
00:15:09.780 or something.
00:15:11.540 However
00:15:11.980 if you neglect
00:15:12.920 the care of your own family
00:15:14.080 you are worse
00:15:15.540 than an unbeliever.
00:15:16.100 you have abandoned the faith.
00:15:17.160 We have greater obligations
00:15:19.060 to those
00:15:20.460 who are closest to us.
00:15:23.020 This moral insight
00:15:24.440 is attested to
00:15:25.920 both by philosophy
00:15:27.480 and religion
00:15:28.420 by reason and revelation
00:15:29.680 and yet many liberals
00:15:31.880 deny it.
00:15:33.400 We know they deny it
00:15:34.720 not just because
00:15:36.380 of their snarky tweets
00:15:37.680 about J.D. Vance
00:15:38.700 but also from
00:15:40.240 social science
00:15:41.260 because shortly after
00:15:42.920 Ordo Amoris
00:15:44.140 implausibly went viral
00:15:45.820 on social media.
00:15:47.820 A graph
00:15:48.460 also went viral.
00:15:50.100 It is this graph
00:15:50.920 I brought a prop
00:15:51.740 with me today
00:15:52.280 I so rarely bring props
00:15:53.540 when I speak
00:15:54.160 but it was this graph
00:15:55.620 you might have tweeted it
00:15:57.720 you might have posted it
00:15:58.660 to Instagram.
00:16:00.000 It comes from
00:16:00.840 a social scientific survey
00:16:02.140 about how people love
00:16:03.760 and what people care about.
00:16:06.180 It is a 2019 study
00:16:07.540 called
00:16:07.860 Ideological Differences
00:16:09.600 in the expanse
00:16:11.100 of the moral circle.
00:16:12.840 The graph depicts
00:16:14.120 heat maps
00:16:15.020 indicating
00:16:16.280 highest moral allocation
00:16:18.580 by ideology.
00:16:20.720 So you can see
00:16:21.320 the moral circle rings
00:16:23.420 extend outward.
00:16:25.360 In the center
00:16:25.940 you have your immediate family
00:16:27.280 right there
00:16:27.800 followed by
00:16:29.440 your extended family
00:16:31.040 all your closest friends
00:16:32.400 then all your friends
00:16:33.680 including the distant ones
00:16:34.900 then your acquaintances
00:16:36.420 then all the people
00:16:37.420 that you ever met
00:16:38.100 in your entire life
00:16:38.940 then your countrymen
00:16:40.160 then people on your continent
00:16:41.780 then all people
00:16:43.100 then all mammals
00:16:44.400 then all other animals
00:16:46.060 all living creatures
00:16:47.240 including amoeba
00:16:48.480 all potential life
00:16:50.080 in the universe
00:16:50.960 including ET aliens
00:16:52.800 all living things
00:16:54.120 including plants and trees
00:16:55.420 all non-living things
00:16:57.060 including rocks
00:16:57.980 and finally
00:16:59.120 all created things
00:17:00.720 that are
00:17:01.220 or could be in existence.
00:17:03.240 This was all studied
00:17:04.040 by a bunch of scientists.
00:17:05.960 The study found
00:17:07.320 that conservatives
00:17:08.880 being normal
00:17:10.500 tend
00:17:12.580 they tend to care more
00:17:15.000 about the things
00:17:16.100 closest to them.
00:17:18.020 They tend to care more
00:17:19.140 about their immediate families
00:17:20.260 than they care about rocks.
00:17:22.560 Liberals
00:17:23.080 being the sort of people
00:17:24.840 who hug trees
00:17:26.340 and hate their dads
00:17:27.400 it's science
00:17:30.720 I'm not throwing bombs
00:17:32.340 I'm just quoting the scientists
00:17:34.420 they tend not
00:17:37.020 to care about things
00:17:38.380 that are closer to them.
00:17:40.500 The study found
00:17:41.400 I'm quoting directly here
00:17:42.640 that the more liberal people were
00:17:45.180 the more they allocated equally
00:17:47.280 to humans
00:17:48.380 and to non-humans.
00:17:51.480 A distinguishing feature
00:17:53.720 of right-wingers
00:17:55.140 I kid you not
00:17:56.180 is that they are more likely
00:17:57.840 quote
00:17:58.300 to morally prioritize
00:18:00.440 humans over non-humans.
00:18:02.740 Oh that's something nice
00:18:04.580 you can say about us
00:18:05.640 you know
00:18:05.960 you don't like the cut
00:18:07.500 of our jib
00:18:07.940 but at least we prioritize
00:18:09.000 human beings
00:18:10.100 over stuff.
00:18:13.340 Now
00:18:13.940 some liberals
00:18:14.800 have attempted
00:18:16.240 to argue
00:18:16.880 that conservatives
00:18:18.000 are simply
00:18:18.760 misunderstanding
00:18:19.500 the study.
00:18:21.080 They argue
00:18:21.980 that the study shows
00:18:23.120 that conservatives
00:18:23.820 don't care more
00:18:25.280 about their families
00:18:26.160 than liberals do
00:18:27.060 it's just that liberals
00:18:28.780 care more about everything.
00:18:30.780 So it's not that
00:18:31.500 they care any less
00:18:32.220 you know
00:18:32.380 they just
00:18:32.600 they also care
00:18:33.700 about the rocks
00:18:34.380 and the amoeba
00:18:34.980 and the aliens.
00:18:37.860 Now
00:18:38.000 even if that were true
00:18:39.580 that is a perfectly
00:18:41.520 plausible hypothesis
00:18:42.580 by the way
00:18:43.140 given the liberals
00:18:45.480 frequent inability
00:18:46.520 to control
00:18:47.100 their own emotions
00:18:47.780 it is perfectly
00:18:49.380 plausible
00:18:49.980 that they
00:18:51.080 might just care
00:18:52.340 so much
00:18:53.100 they're just
00:18:53.980 overflowing
00:18:54.780 with
00:18:55.240 fields.
00:18:57.260 However
00:18:57.560 even if that were the case
00:18:59.300 it would still be
00:19:00.300 extremely disordered
00:19:02.020 to care more
00:19:03.140 about strangers
00:19:03.840 than to care
00:19:04.880 about one's own parents
00:19:05.880 no matter how much
00:19:06.700 one cared about
00:19:07.840 his own parents
00:19:08.520 even if they cared
00:19:10.400 more overall
00:19:11.220 which it turns out
00:19:12.320 they do not.
00:19:14.360 Liberals really do
00:19:15.240 care more
00:19:15.820 about rocks
00:19:16.560 and trees
00:19:17.160 than they do
00:19:17.680 about their families.
00:19:18.940 We don't need a chart
00:19:19.880 or a study
00:19:20.480 to show us that
00:19:21.380 just ask a liberal
00:19:22.980 about climate change
00:19:24.260 and abortion.
00:19:25.800 Liberals will
00:19:26.420 rend their garments
00:19:27.580 and gnash their teeth
00:19:28.820 over environmental threats
00:19:30.480 to the coral reef
00:19:31.380 but they will dance
00:19:32.680 in the streets
00:19:33.240 to celebrate the murder
00:19:34.280 of their own children
00:19:35.160 through abortion
00:19:35.780 and it turns out
00:19:37.940 the study
00:19:38.920 shows as much
00:19:40.240 because
00:19:41.420 again I'm quoting
00:19:42.120 directly here
00:19:42.780 the study
00:19:43.360 quote
00:19:43.720 constrained the number
00:19:45.320 of units
00:19:45.780 that participants
00:19:46.560 could assign
00:19:47.080 to each group
00:19:47.620 forcing participants
00:19:49.080 to distribute
00:19:50.280 moral concern
00:19:51.200 in a zero-sum fashion
00:19:53.140 so the more
00:19:54.000 that you say
00:19:54.440 you care about
00:19:54.820 one thing
00:19:55.180 the less you can say
00:19:56.040 you care about
00:19:56.500 another thing
00:19:57.080 the researchers
00:19:58.360 did this
00:19:59.040 because other research
00:20:00.180 suggests
00:20:00.800 that that is
00:20:01.600 really how people
00:20:02.520 do distribute
00:20:03.640 their care
00:20:04.340 and their concern
00:20:05.020 you know
00:20:05.580 it's a finite world
00:20:06.560 we've only got
00:20:07.400 so many hours
00:20:08.140 that we can worry
00:20:08.880 we only have
00:20:09.720 so many tears
00:20:10.460 that we can shed
00:20:11.520 but just to prove
00:20:13.340 how deep
00:20:14.700 this moral perversion
00:20:16.180 runs
00:20:16.920 on the political left
00:20:18.000 the researchers
00:20:19.240 conducted another study
00:20:20.580 to test
00:20:21.540 what would happen
00:20:22.300 if they did not
00:20:23.620 constrain people
00:20:24.500 to zero-sum
00:20:26.640 moral thinking
00:20:27.420 what they discovered
00:20:29.320 was that
00:20:29.740 even when
00:20:30.540 participants
00:20:31.420 allocations
00:20:32.140 were not constrained
00:20:33.060 the same
00:20:34.520 pattern
00:20:35.340 replicated
00:20:36.060 conservatives
00:20:37.880 the researchers
00:20:38.460 showed
00:20:38.860 exhibit greater
00:20:40.140 concern
00:20:40.700 and preference
00:20:41.360 for family
00:20:42.440 relative to friends
00:20:43.400 the nation
00:20:44.360 relative to the world
00:20:45.380 and humans
00:20:46.180 relative to non-humans
00:20:47.300 so what conclusion
00:20:49.460 are we to draw
00:20:51.220 from this
00:20:51.780 is it just a matter
00:20:53.600 of preference
00:20:54.320 you know
00:20:54.980 conservatives
00:20:56.000 we you know
00:20:57.060 we love our family
00:20:58.180 and friends
00:20:58.800 and you know
00:20:59.680 liberals love trees
00:21:00.740 and rocks
00:21:01.340 you know
00:21:03.160 it's just all
00:21:03.820 you like chocolate
00:21:04.780 I like vanilla
00:21:05.360 right
00:21:05.640 is that how that works
00:21:06.560 I don't think so
00:21:08.060 any reasonable person
00:21:10.340 knows
00:21:11.180 that one should care
00:21:12.560 more for his children
00:21:13.560 than for rocks
00:21:14.620 and trees
00:21:15.200 if liberals
00:21:16.760 do not
00:21:17.440 it is because
00:21:18.380 they have made
00:21:19.300 a moral error
00:21:20.480 and the liberals
00:21:22.400 did not necessarily
00:21:23.820 fall into this
00:21:24.640 moral error
00:21:25.340 because they're wicked
00:21:26.340 more likely
00:21:27.800 I think
00:21:28.280 I'm not even
00:21:29.680 just trying to be
00:21:30.500 as charitable
00:21:32.440 as I can
00:21:33.080 to the liberals
00:21:33.640 I also think
00:21:34.900 this actually
00:21:35.440 motivates them
00:21:36.160 more likely
00:21:37.160 I suspect
00:21:37.800 they've fallen
00:21:38.740 into this moral error
00:21:39.900 because they are
00:21:40.980 trying and failing
00:21:42.160 to be good
00:21:42.900 I suspect
00:21:44.040 most of the time
00:21:45.060 it actually comes
00:21:46.220 from a place of love
00:21:47.220 but the love
00:21:48.580 is misplaced
00:21:49.540 the love
00:21:50.740 is out of order
00:21:51.700 and disordered love
00:21:53.600 tends to evil
00:21:54.580 just as the road
00:21:55.600 to hell
00:21:55.900 is paved
00:21:56.320 with good intentions
00:21:57.260 G.K. Chesterton
00:21:59.120 explains this phenomenon
00:22:00.600 with regard to
00:22:01.500 his very close friend
00:22:02.980 George Bernard Shaw
00:22:03.860 who was an atheist
00:22:05.280 and a socialist
00:22:06.040 Bernard Shaw
00:22:07.320 Chesterton writes
00:22:08.180 has a heroically
00:22:10.000 large
00:22:10.720 and generous heart
00:22:11.820 but not a heart
00:22:13.600 in the right place
00:22:14.540 and this is so
00:22:16.200 of the typical
00:22:16.800 society of our time
00:22:17.860 the modern world
00:22:18.540 is not evil
00:22:19.160 in some ways
00:22:20.420 the modern world
00:22:21.260 is far too good
00:22:22.520 it is full of wild
00:22:24.160 and wasted virtues
00:22:25.700 when a religious scheme
00:22:27.960 is shattered
00:22:28.760 Chesterton concludes
00:22:30.160 it is not merely
00:22:32.220 the vices
00:22:32.800 that are let loose
00:22:34.080 the vices are indeed
00:22:35.940 let loose
00:22:36.420 and they wander
00:22:37.040 and do damage
00:22:37.820 but the virtues
00:22:39.580 are let loose also
00:22:41.060 and the virtues
00:22:42.480 wander more wildly
00:22:43.980 and the virtues
00:22:45.360 do more terrible damage
00:22:46.940 the modern world
00:22:48.800 is full of the old
00:22:49.800 Christian virtues
00:22:50.860 gone mad
00:22:51.640 our nation's
00:22:53.960 our whole civilization's
00:22:55.360 religious scheme
00:22:56.240 has obviously
00:22:57.660 been shattered
00:22:58.480 the vice president
00:23:00.720 invoked
00:23:01.300 Thomas Aquinas
00:23:02.140 and our political elites
00:23:03.900 were left drooling
00:23:05.240 and scratching their heads
00:23:06.380 as though they had never
00:23:07.520 heard of this man before
00:23:08.420 the scheme
00:23:11.600 has been shattered
00:23:12.820 the virtues
00:23:13.940 have wandered
00:23:14.860 and these wandering virtues
00:23:16.580 these errant loves
00:23:18.080 have caused
00:23:19.100 our present political ills
00:23:21.020 the only remedy
00:23:22.820 to that
00:23:23.420 is to restore
00:23:25.040 order
00:23:25.920 not just to our streets
00:23:28.320 and to our communities
00:23:29.260 that's good too
00:23:30.000 but also to restore
00:23:31.540 order
00:23:32.060 to our loves
00:23:33.400 if
00:23:34.620 for no other reason
00:23:36.200 than that without order
00:23:38.300 without caring
00:23:39.840 for ourselves
00:23:40.740 and our own
00:23:41.580 we cannot properly
00:23:43.280 care
00:23:43.700 for anyone else
00:23:45.140 either
00:23:45.640 thank you very much
00:23:47.360 very kind
00:24:00.260 thank you very much
00:24:01.200 I have been told
00:24:03.200 we have time
00:24:04.080 for some questions
00:24:05.520 from the audience
00:24:06.180 yes we do
00:24:07.060 alright
00:24:07.580 we will now begin
00:24:08.360 our Q&A portion
00:24:09.420 please stand
00:24:10.840 in the line
00:24:11.820 by my colleague
00:24:12.560 Hunter in the back
00:24:13.540 and once you get
00:24:14.580 to the microphone
00:24:15.120 please state your name
00:24:16.260 your school
00:24:17.080 and your brief question
00:24:18.400 you know usually
00:24:22.760 the daily wire
00:24:23.780 has a rule
00:24:24.420 and it's a rule
00:24:25.860 with which I greatly
00:24:26.820 disagree
00:24:27.420 but the rule is that
00:24:29.540 if you disagree
00:24:31.380 with me
00:24:31.900 you can cut
00:24:32.460 to the front
00:24:32.900 of the line
00:24:33.360 now
00:24:34.560 I'm seeing a lot
00:24:36.520 of nice ties
00:24:37.520 and blazers here
00:24:38.960 a lot of parted hair
00:24:40.280 so I don't think
00:24:41.080 anyone disagrees
00:24:41.800 with me about anything
00:24:42.520 in this room
00:24:43.040 and I don't even agree
00:24:44.780 with the rule
00:24:45.240 as it stands
00:24:45.880 but in any case
00:24:46.640 look at all these
00:24:47.360 wonderfully well-dressed
00:24:49.380 orderly
00:24:50.320 proper young conservatives
00:24:51.700 I'll take the first question
00:24:53.700 applause
00:24:55.700 hi Mr. Knowles
00:25:00.960 thank you for speaking
00:25:01.780 to us today
00:25:02.520 my name is Janine
00:25:03.580 and I go to
00:25:04.440 Northwestern University
00:25:05.920 up in Chicago
00:25:07.180 which is probably
00:25:08.140 one of the most
00:25:09.260 liberal universities
00:25:10.440 in the nation
00:25:11.460 so I believe
00:25:12.840 that our nation
00:25:13.780 works better
00:25:14.480 when under the
00:25:15.300 guiding principles
00:25:16.020 of Christianity
00:25:16.900 and I would agree
00:25:18.140 with Vice President
00:25:19.420 Vance there
00:25:19.960 and with you
00:25:20.540 however we are
00:25:22.020 in a society
00:25:23.560 that is increasingly
00:25:24.540 hateful of Christians
00:25:26.020 and of religion
00:25:27.980 in general
00:25:28.740 and I see that
00:25:29.520 first hand
00:25:30.160 on my campus
00:25:31.120 so what would you say
00:25:32.560 to these professors
00:25:33.800 and to these students
00:25:35.460 who are actively
00:25:37.040 anti-the gospel
00:25:38.560 anti-the bible
00:25:39.680 and anti-the principles
00:25:42.540 that are the bedrock
00:25:43.620 of our nation
00:25:44.360 well
00:25:45.740 you could just speak
00:25:47.460 the truth in love
00:25:48.300 is probably
00:25:48.860 what you should
00:25:49.440 begin with
00:25:50.140 certainly when you're
00:25:50.920 talking about
00:25:51.560 your colleagues
00:25:52.380 or your classmates
00:25:53.120 rather
00:25:53.500 because
00:25:54.520 you're so right
00:25:56.080 at these liberal schools
00:25:57.780 there are all sorts
00:25:58.740 of kids
00:25:59.200 who are very hostile
00:26:00.160 to religion
00:26:00.920 I was one of them
00:26:03.440 I was
00:26:04.140 when I arrived
00:26:05.440 at college
00:26:06.060 I was
00:26:07.140 politically right-wing
00:26:08.880 still
00:26:09.200 I mean I was
00:26:09.600 basically born
00:26:10.680 with parted hair
00:26:11.460 smoking a cigar
00:26:12.180 but in terms of religion
00:26:13.580 I would have called
00:26:14.720 myself an atheist
00:26:15.580 it's just in the air
00:26:17.180 you know
00:26:17.500 it's kind of
00:26:17.980 how we grew up
00:26:18.940 and so
00:26:19.580 it's a great opportunity
00:26:20.740 for you
00:26:21.180 because one thing
00:26:21.900 I've noticed
00:26:22.600 having been an atheist
00:26:24.260 and then coming out of it
00:26:25.640 is the atheists
00:26:26.760 don't know anything
00:26:27.480 obviously
00:26:27.980 you know
00:26:28.380 they deny the
00:26:29.600 fundament of reality
00:26:30.500 so they're not all
00:26:32.140 that big and scary
00:26:32.900 and if you begin
00:26:34.460 to appeal
00:26:35.180 to
00:26:35.860 for some of them
00:26:37.120 it will be appealing
00:26:37.740 to their intellect
00:26:38.840 for some of them
00:26:39.720 it will be speaking
00:26:40.380 in a more numinous way
00:26:42.180 or speaking to their emotion
00:26:43.720 or however
00:26:44.180 but you know
00:26:45.080 you have a great opportunity
00:26:46.160 to win people over
00:26:47.300 so I think that's
00:26:48.120 really wonderful
00:26:48.800 when it comes to
00:26:49.900 the professors
00:26:50.400 that's a different story
00:26:51.480 you can do your best
00:26:53.020 to win them over
00:26:53.940 however
00:26:54.500 if professors
00:26:56.180 are discriminating
00:26:57.480 against religious students
00:26:59.020 in class
00:26:59.640 as sometimes happens
00:27:01.080 you should get them fired
00:27:03.280 they have no right
00:27:04.340 to a job
00:27:05.020 good
00:27:06.080 you should
00:27:06.580 you should
00:27:07.960 you know
00:27:08.580 your question is apt
00:27:12.200 because we're here
00:27:13.220 at the William F. Buckley
00:27:14.520 lecture series
00:27:15.660 William F. Buckley Jr.
00:27:17.500 helped to launch
00:27:18.200 the conservative movement
00:27:19.140 with a book called
00:27:19.960 God and Man at Yale
00:27:20.900 God and Man at Yale
00:27:22.240 which was a handbook
00:27:23.740 in getting atheist
00:27:25.720 communist professors
00:27:27.220 fired from universities
00:27:28.560 okay
00:27:29.420 so the subtitle
00:27:30.820 of the book
00:27:31.200 we forget it now
00:27:31.800 is The Superstitions
00:27:33.020 of Academic Freedom
00:27:33.920 Buckley famously said
00:27:35.640 during a Firing Line episode
00:27:36.800 with Leo Churn
00:27:37.680 he said
00:27:38.400 I don't want society
00:27:39.360 to be more open
00:27:40.440 I actually want society
00:27:41.920 to be considerably
00:27:42.680 more closed
00:27:43.660 I'm an epistemological optimist
00:27:45.760 I think we can make
00:27:46.400 certain exclusions
00:27:47.720 and the purpose
00:27:48.640 of the university
00:27:49.360 is to seek the truth
00:27:50.980 that's what they're after
00:27:51.980 so if you exclude
00:27:53.380 the truth himself
00:27:54.540 from the university
00:27:55.340 you're not going
00:27:56.120 to have a good time
00:27:56.840 and these commie
00:27:57.940 atheist professors
00:27:58.820 don't have a right
00:27:59.760 to indoctrinate students
00:28:01.120 and the trustees
00:28:02.000 ought to flex their muscles
00:28:03.160 that's what Buckley said
00:28:04.220 in the 50s
00:28:05.060 that's what I say now
00:28:06.040 it was right then
00:28:07.060 it's right now
00:28:07.940 and I think we have
00:28:08.660 the political backing
00:28:09.620 to do something about it
00:28:10.700 so maybe work
00:28:12.580 that side of it too
00:28:13.400 it's the stick
00:28:14.960 in the carrot
00:28:15.460 you know
00:28:15.880 a little bit of love
00:28:16.740 and a little bit of tough love
00:28:17.680 thank you
00:28:19.400 applause
00:28:20.680 hi Michael
00:28:28.140 my name is Jake
00:28:29.300 from the University
00:28:30.300 of Central Florida
00:28:30.960 thank you for speaking
00:28:31.900 to us today
00:28:33.260 it was an honor
00:28:34.020 to hear from you
00:28:34.640 me and my colleagues
00:28:36.520 at the table
00:28:37.120 were having a discussion
00:28:38.360 on Catholicism
00:28:39.540 versus Protestantism
00:28:40.640 and it quickly developed
00:28:42.660 into the realm
00:28:43.380 of free will
00:28:44.080 now
00:28:45.260 the question was
00:28:47.700 whether free will
00:28:48.420 is limitless
00:28:49.220 or whether
00:28:50.420 we are a product
00:28:51.720 of our environments
00:28:52.720 and whether free will
00:28:53.960 is sort of within a box
00:28:55.440 so for example
00:28:56.240 during your lecture
00:28:58.000 I certainly have
00:28:59.500 the free will
00:29:00.100 to shout out
00:29:01.540 and interrupt your lecture
00:29:02.580 but I never would
00:29:03.460 because I was raised
00:29:05.060 to respect those
00:29:06.200 who are speaking
00:29:06.820 so I was hoping
00:29:09.240 that you could shed
00:29:09.760 some light
00:29:10.160 on this issue
00:29:10.920 of free will
00:29:11.380 is free will
00:29:12.120 limitless
00:29:12.860 and do we have
00:29:13.760 the ability
00:29:14.220 to basically
00:29:15.400 do whatever we want
00:29:16.300 or are we a product
00:29:17.200 of our environment
00:29:18.060 and our sort of
00:29:20.040 free will
00:29:20.360 is constrained
00:29:21.020 in that way
00:29:21.540 what a beautiful
00:29:23.060 question
00:29:23.960 what a beautiful
00:29:24.780 intelligent question
00:29:26.000 that you would find
00:29:27.160 at a YAF conference
00:29:28.120 and would never find
00:29:29.300 on most university
00:29:30.080 campuses
00:29:30.560 beautiful question
00:29:32.360 the key
00:29:37.440 to understanding
00:29:38.860 this question
00:29:39.620 is the acknowledgement
00:29:41.640 of two competing
00:29:42.760 conceptions of liberty
00:29:43.920 Isaiah Berlin
00:29:45.180 famously has his essay
00:29:46.560 on the two conceptions
00:29:47.480 of liberty
00:29:47.840 positive and negative liberty
00:29:49.000 that is not the dichotomy
00:29:50.540 that I'm talking about
00:29:51.380 I'm talking about
00:29:52.300 the liberal conception
00:29:53.460 of liberty
00:29:53.960 meaning including
00:29:55.520 the classical liberal
00:29:56.340 conception
00:29:56.780 versus the classical
00:29:58.100 conception of liberty
00:29:59.080 the liberal conception
00:30:00.760 of liberty
00:30:01.360 posits that
00:30:03.340 freedom is the ability
00:30:05.460 to do whatever you want
00:30:06.560 to get up and yell
00:30:07.300 during the lecture
00:30:07.880 or whatever
00:30:08.240 and that the
00:30:10.620 maximization
00:30:12.520 of individual autonomy
00:30:14.140 is the expansion
00:30:15.600 of liberty
00:30:16.440 that is not the classical
00:30:18.080 understanding of liberty
00:30:18.960 the classical understanding
00:30:19.940 of liberty
00:30:20.600 is that liberty
00:30:21.800 is not just neutrality
00:30:23.940 and choosing
00:30:24.500 but that liberty
00:30:26.020 is willing
00:30:27.120 willing
00:30:28.000 which is predicated
00:30:29.320 on knowledge
00:30:30.220 and I think
00:30:31.360 this is a much
00:30:31.840 sturdier conception
00:30:32.780 of liberty
00:30:33.300 because ignorance
00:30:35.320 compromises our liberty
00:30:37.640 people who are
00:30:38.700 totally ignorant
00:30:39.400 cannot be totally
00:30:40.300 cannot truly be free
00:30:41.500 this is why we have
00:30:42.480 ages of consent
00:30:43.400 this is why we don't
00:30:44.320 let five year olds vote
00:30:45.240 because they're just not
00:30:46.280 educated enough
00:30:47.940 yet to vote
00:30:48.500 and then willing
00:30:50.000 is also important here
00:30:51.520 you have to be
00:30:52.280 in command of your will
00:30:53.460 you can be as book smart
00:30:54.600 as anybody in the world
00:30:55.540 but if you are just
00:30:56.700 constantly consumed
00:30:58.400 by vice
00:30:59.080 if you're not able
00:30:59.660 to control your impulses
00:31:00.980 then you can't really
00:31:02.000 be free
00:31:02.520 Hunter Biden
00:31:03.380 I don't even mean
00:31:04.000 to make a Hunter Biden joke
00:31:04.860 he's a very intelligent
00:31:06.360 educated guy
00:31:07.120 graduated Yale Law School
00:31:08.440 he's got all the training
00:31:10.820 and all the book smarts
00:31:11.680 but he can't control himself
00:31:12.940 so he can't
00:31:13.800 he's not really free
00:31:14.500 you know
00:31:14.700 he's a crack addict
00:31:15.420 and hopefully
00:31:16.840 he's recovered from that
00:31:17.800 but that compromises
00:31:19.820 your freedom
00:31:20.300 so that's the matter
00:31:23.840 at hand here
00:31:24.480 is your freedom
00:31:27.900 is limited
00:31:28.840 by your knowledge
00:31:31.560 and by your self control
00:31:33.140 so only God
00:31:34.720 is truly free
00:31:35.900 we are only free
00:31:37.860 in as much
00:31:38.840 as we make ourselves
00:31:40.040 more like God
00:31:40.920 this is why
00:31:41.900 this is straight
00:31:43.400 from the scripture
00:31:44.180 but it's also
00:31:44.720 from philosophy
00:31:45.460 you know
00:31:46.360 this is why
00:31:47.700 our Lord says
00:31:48.420 that the man
00:31:49.660 who sins
00:31:50.200 is a slave to sin
00:31:51.260 but you should
00:31:52.640 take my yoke upon you
00:31:53.840 my yoke is easy
00:31:55.000 and my burden is light
00:31:55.960 there is a kind of a yoke
00:31:57.300 and a kind of a burden
00:31:58.120 to following God
00:31:59.280 but it's light
00:32:00.520 it's good
00:32:00.920 you know
00:32:01.200 it will actually
00:32:01.760 make you free
00:32:02.380 the man
00:32:03.560 who the son of man
00:32:04.420 sets free
00:32:04.860 is free indeed
00:32:05.560 so this is why
00:32:07.640 you have to
00:32:08.420 work on
00:32:09.380 on your
00:32:10.120 self control
00:32:11.880 and on
00:32:12.280 your knowledge
00:32:13.120 and it's why
00:32:13.860 to bring it back
00:32:15.260 down to earth
00:32:15.880 it's why
00:32:16.480 our founding fathers
00:32:17.380 and the wise men
00:32:18.700 of that era
00:32:19.320 understood
00:32:20.120 that real liberty
00:32:21.040 is actually grounded
00:32:22.480 in limitations
00:32:23.440 just like
00:32:24.440 just like if you want
00:32:25.400 a good poem
00:32:26.000 there have to be
00:32:26.580 limitations on the poem
00:32:27.740 a good life
00:32:29.420 requires limitations
00:32:30.560 on that freedom
00:32:31.400 otherwise
00:32:31.820 you're going to be
00:32:32.660 consumed
00:32:33.160 by a false liberty
00:32:34.600 you will
00:32:35.420 as the men
00:32:36.340 who built our country
00:32:37.160 wrote into law
00:32:38.560 you will abuse
00:32:39.400 your liberty
00:32:39.860 into licentiousness
00:32:40.780 and you'll totally
00:32:41.360 lose your freedom
00:32:42.020 thank you
00:32:43.940 hey michael
00:32:53.660 my name is
00:32:54.160 mateen
00:32:54.640 i'm an iranian
00:32:55.560 american
00:32:55.960 and i go to
00:32:56.780 golden best college
00:32:57.420 in california
00:32:58.100 my little brother
00:32:59.380 is probably watching
00:33:00.000 this right now
00:33:00.460 he just turned
00:33:00.940 13 and you're
00:33:02.000 his favorite
00:33:02.480 dale barrios
00:33:03.180 all right
00:33:03.980 he's got great taste
00:33:04.940 he's got really good taste
00:33:06.040 so let's bring a little bit
00:33:08.100 of disagreement here
00:33:08.960 i know you're not a big fan
00:33:09.860 of secularism
00:33:10.680 but i'd like to make a case
00:33:12.000 in favor of secularism
00:33:13.040 and conclude with the question
00:33:14.140 most of my background
00:33:15.720 was spent under the
00:33:16.720 islamic republicans
00:33:17.480 ragheads
00:33:17.940 that's what i call them
00:33:18.760 i've seen firsthand
00:33:20.080 how miserable
00:33:20.900 the enforcement of religion
00:33:22.460 by the state can be
00:33:23.460 of course islam being
00:33:24.860 such a barbaric religion
00:33:26.460 makes this whole thing
00:33:27.240 worse
00:33:27.580 unlike christianity
00:33:28.660 but overall
00:33:29.920 religion is something
00:33:30.740 that people feel
00:33:31.360 passionate about
00:33:32.100 and too much passion
00:33:33.180 can lead to extremism
00:33:34.500 how do we keep a balance
00:33:35.840 in our nation
00:33:36.460 and don't you think
00:33:37.180 secularism would be
00:33:38.240 the best way to do so
00:33:39.940 no secularism is just
00:33:42.180 is just another bad religion
00:33:44.140 you know
00:33:44.700 because religion is
00:33:46.340 is just a habit of virtue
00:33:47.900 that inclines the will
00:33:48.980 to give to god
00:33:49.840 what he deserves
00:33:50.780 that's
00:33:51.420 so we talk about religion
00:33:52.880 as though it's like a
00:33:54.360 a clothing brand
00:33:55.840 or something
00:33:56.320 you know
00:33:56.600 you have the polo religion
00:33:58.200 and i have the brooks
00:33:58.860 brothers religion
00:33:59.580 no religion is
00:34:01.100 is getting at a
00:34:02.320 fundamental human need
00:34:03.420 and desire
00:34:03.980 that cannot be stamped out
00:34:05.620 even by the worst tyrants
00:34:06.800 in the world
00:34:07.220 though they've tried
00:34:07.980 so the question is
00:34:09.680 okay
00:34:09.920 we have this intuition
00:34:10.980 that god exists
00:34:11.860 we can actually know
00:34:12.900 that god exists
00:34:13.720 merely through natural reason
00:34:15.500 though he reveals
00:34:16.440 other things
00:34:17.100 about himself to us
00:34:18.560 so what do we do about that
00:34:20.040 you know
00:34:20.300 how are we supposed
00:34:20.960 to worship him
00:34:21.580 and even how are we
00:34:22.440 just supposed to live
00:34:23.020 our lives in accordance
00:34:23.980 with his will
00:34:24.720 that's what religion is
00:34:26.160 so some religions
00:34:27.380 get it closer
00:34:28.020 than others
00:34:28.600 and what you're saying
00:34:29.580 is look
00:34:30.180 my family and i
00:34:31.060 we grew up under
00:34:31.640 a bad religion
00:34:32.460 this islam
00:34:33.800 that in its practice
00:34:35.100 in iran
00:34:35.680 was really terrible
00:34:36.600 and i don't doubt that
00:34:37.840 i'm sure you're right
00:34:39.000 about that
00:34:39.480 but i don't think
00:34:40.400 that the answer then
00:34:41.280 is to pretend
00:34:42.540 that god doesn't exist
00:34:43.860 he does
00:34:44.480 you don't want
00:34:44.860 to live in lies
00:34:45.620 and i don't think
00:34:48.120 the solution to that
00:34:48.920 is to pretend
00:34:49.460 that there's no such thing
00:34:50.220 as a moral order
00:34:51.040 one because that's
00:34:51.980 not possible
00:34:52.680 you know
00:34:53.140 the law
00:34:54.140 requires us
00:34:55.220 to make certain
00:34:56.380 moral determinations
00:34:57.740 you can't
00:34:58.580 you can't pass a law
00:34:59.540 you can't pass a law
00:35:00.780 about parking tickets
00:35:01.860 if you're not engaging
00:35:03.320 in some kind
00:35:03.880 of moral reasoning
00:35:04.580 much less a law
00:35:05.300 about murder
00:35:06.000 or about property
00:35:07.200 or about anything
00:35:07.780 like that
00:35:08.300 so you're going to
00:35:09.340 have some kind
00:35:09.940 of religion
00:35:10.380 as cardinal manning
00:35:11.380 tells us
00:35:11.980 all human conflict
00:35:13.500 ultimately is theological
00:35:14.920 so i'm with you
00:35:17.100 i wouldn't recommend
00:35:17.800 we import the mullahs
00:35:18.780 into the united states
00:35:19.860 the country was founded
00:35:21.520 as a broadly
00:35:22.480 christian country
00:35:23.480 john adams says
00:35:24.600 that the general
00:35:25.240 principles of christianity
00:35:26.500 are the principles
00:35:27.480 on which independence
00:35:28.380 was won
00:35:29.420 and he famously says
00:35:30.900 the constitution's
00:35:31.740 built only for a moral
00:35:32.640 and religious people
00:35:33.520 now does this mean
00:35:34.400 that we send the purity
00:35:35.120 police around
00:35:35.700 like the mallas do
00:35:36.440 to go stamp out
00:35:37.540 any dissent
00:35:38.140 no that's really not
00:35:39.320 in the christian tradition
00:35:40.340 it's not in the
00:35:41.640 modern christian tradition
00:35:42.500 it's not in the medieval
00:35:43.320 christian tradition even
00:35:44.540 you know
00:35:44.880 there's a lot of
00:35:46.580 a lot of fake news
00:35:48.920 about the inquisition
00:35:50.040 and the middle ages
00:35:50.660 and all that
00:35:51.140 but actually
00:35:51.900 broadly speaking
00:35:52.660 christian civilization
00:35:53.420 has been quite tolerant
00:35:54.700 has really always been
00:35:55.880 quite tolerant
00:35:56.420 just about everywhere
00:35:57.100 so what would i recommend
00:35:59.120 we do for religion
00:36:00.180 in america
00:36:00.780 probably what we did
00:36:02.320 when the country
00:36:02.860 worked well
00:36:03.520 that would be
00:36:04.440 what i recommend
00:36:05.140 which is
00:36:05.620 we recognize
00:36:06.500 that god exists
00:36:07.340 i mean he's in our
00:36:07.920 national anthem
00:36:08.540 and he's on our money
00:36:09.280 i think it's pretty clear
00:36:10.420 he exists in our
00:36:11.180 the whole premise
00:36:12.540 of the declaration
00:36:13.420 is that god exists
00:36:14.620 and gives us rights
00:36:15.460 so we acknowledge
00:36:16.760 that fact
00:36:17.640 and we practice
00:36:19.280 our traditional
00:36:20.040 kind of christian religion
00:36:21.040 and if people
00:36:22.100 don't want to go along
00:36:22.960 with it
00:36:23.280 or they want to have
00:36:23.900 their own religious
00:36:24.480 practices
00:36:24.980 we basically are
00:36:26.180 tolerant of that
00:36:27.080 and you know
00:36:27.460 we make accommodations
00:36:28.300 and things
00:36:28.900 but we don't
00:36:29.680 we don't just throw
00:36:30.300 the baby out
00:36:30.820 with the bath water
00:36:31.660 i think the new atheists
00:36:33.180 in the early 2000s
00:36:34.540 they exploited 9-11
00:36:36.700 when the muslims
00:36:38.280 had engaged
00:36:39.780 in this horrible
00:36:40.380 terror attack
00:36:41.060 on america
00:36:41.660 to try to
00:36:43.120 lump all religion
00:36:45.000 and together
00:36:45.540 but not all religion
00:36:47.420 is the same
00:36:48.080 just like not all
00:36:48.900 philosophy is the same
00:36:50.000 just like not all
00:36:50.960 ideas are the same
00:36:51.840 some are better
00:36:52.640 than others
00:36:53.100 and we should embrace
00:36:53.780 the good ones
00:36:54.500 and throw out
00:36:55.200 the bad ones
00:36:55.900 hello my name is
00:37:05.640 sofia yuzetinski
00:37:06.400 and i go to
00:37:07.300 cw university in ohio
00:37:08.860 one of the unique
00:37:10.420 characteristics of your
00:37:11.320 show that sets it apart
00:37:12.340 is the hopeful mindset
00:37:13.540 that you bring into
00:37:14.400 your interviews
00:37:15.100 and social commentary
00:37:16.100 as a christian
00:37:17.380 i would presume
00:37:18.060 that this stems
00:37:18.740 from your faith
00:37:19.440 but could you share
00:37:20.440 more about that
00:37:21.140 and how you maintain
00:37:21.940 hope in the world
00:37:22.660 we live in today
00:37:23.560 sure what a great
00:37:25.080 premise
00:37:25.540 like michael
00:37:26.460 you're so handsome
00:37:27.680 tell us about
00:37:28.460 you know i wake up
00:37:30.340 i comb my hair
00:37:31.060 yeah but thank you
00:37:31.840 i'm glad that you
00:37:32.400 find some hopefulness
00:37:33.700 in my show
00:37:34.340 when i began my show
00:37:36.240 i was told
00:37:36.980 by wiser
00:37:38.360 and frankly
00:37:39.160 more successful
00:37:40.040 conservative pundits
00:37:42.000 than i
00:37:42.980 that there were only
00:37:44.120 two routes
00:37:44.840 to being a popular
00:37:46.300 conservative
00:37:46.880 you had to be
00:37:48.380 a comedian
00:37:49.120 or you had to be
00:37:50.760 really angry
00:37:51.540 all the time
00:37:52.180 and i said well
00:37:52.980 i'm out of luck
00:37:53.880 then man
00:37:54.400 because i'm not
00:37:55.460 a comedian
00:37:55.880 and i'm rarely angry
00:37:57.400 i'm angry about
00:37:58.140 twice a year
00:37:58.880 i mean i feel
00:38:00.060 a kind of righteous
00:38:01.380 indignation
00:38:02.080 at the things
00:38:02.820 that are appropriate
00:38:03.440 but i don't let it
00:38:04.440 get me down too much
00:38:05.360 and so you say
00:38:06.100 why is this because
00:38:06.640 of your religion
00:38:07.140 i say of course
00:38:07.800 you know i mean
00:38:08.440 i don't mean to be
00:38:10.820 glib in any way
00:38:11.620 but why am i not
00:38:12.440 moping all the time
00:38:13.360 because my savior lives
00:38:14.800 and i have a conception
00:38:15.840 of how things
00:38:16.900 are going to end
00:38:17.560 good cause
00:38:20.520 for celebration
00:38:21.580 but of course
00:38:24.760 this doesn't mean
00:38:25.780 that we should not
00:38:27.180 take seriously
00:38:27.900 the practical challenges
00:38:30.000 that we face
00:38:30.760 and that we should not
00:38:31.800 you know confront them
00:38:33.400 in blunt terms
00:38:34.200 and fight against evil
00:38:35.380 and you know
00:38:36.020 try to do some
00:38:37.100 good
00:38:37.380 because
00:38:38.380 there is a
00:38:40.080 tendency among liberals
00:38:42.100 and even in
00:38:43.260 especially in liberal
00:38:44.020 christianity
00:38:44.740 to universalize
00:38:46.240 everything
00:38:46.720 well that's in fact
00:38:47.640 what we were talking
00:38:48.200 about a lot tonight
00:38:48.900 that the libs don't
00:38:49.960 want to talk about
00:38:50.480 particulars
00:38:51.000 they don't want to
00:38:51.380 care for particulars
00:38:52.340 it's just about
00:38:53.340 the human race
00:38:54.200 you know
00:38:54.520 the liberals love
00:38:55.400 humanity
00:38:55.860 they just don't like
00:38:56.560 any particular humans
00:38:57.720 all that much
00:38:58.420 that they've ever
00:38:59.120 actually met
00:38:59.940 so we need to
00:39:02.780 engage in the particulars
00:39:04.100 that particular piece
00:39:06.440 of legislation
00:39:07.100 that is about to fail
00:39:08.820 in the senate
00:39:09.320 but we can maybe
00:39:10.480 get it over the
00:39:11.220 finish line
00:39:11.740 we have to engage
00:39:12.640 with that
00:39:13.040 that particular
00:39:14.040 candidate
00:39:14.560 who's flawed
00:39:15.640 who said something
00:39:16.840 we don't like
00:39:17.460 who holds a position
00:39:18.320 that we don't like
00:39:19.180 who you know
00:39:20.380 we would be so much
00:39:21.320 better than
00:39:21.820 if we ran
00:39:22.360 you know
00:39:22.900 but if he's our
00:39:23.600 standard bearer
00:39:24.440 sometimes you got
00:39:25.180 to unify
00:39:25.660 and you got to
00:39:26.100 engage in the
00:39:26.660 practical fight
00:39:27.440 that comes from
00:39:28.660 our religion too
00:39:29.720 because
00:39:30.440 in certain religions
00:39:32.120 you know
00:39:33.660 God just kind of
00:39:34.900 gives us some poetry
00:39:35.840 or something
00:39:36.420 it's a kind of
00:39:37.480 general vague mythology
00:39:38.860 but Christianity
00:39:39.860 is not based
00:39:41.280 primarily on poetry
00:39:42.500 or philosophy even
00:39:44.440 it's based on journalism
00:39:45.640 it's based on
00:39:46.340 historical facts
00:39:47.300 that happened
00:39:47.820 in the fullness of time
00:39:49.480 you know
00:39:49.900 during a particular
00:39:51.560 reign
00:39:52.340 the reign of
00:39:53.100 Caesar Augustus
00:39:53.940 in a particular empire
00:39:55.000 the Roman Empire
00:39:56.040 which had jurisdiction
00:39:57.420 over the world
00:39:58.120 by claiming the right
00:39:58.860 to tax the whole world
00:39:59.900 the son of God
00:40:01.620 is born into history
00:40:02.900 and accomplishes
00:40:03.880 real things
00:40:04.640 in real times
00:40:05.260 with real people
00:40:06.120 you know
00:40:06.560 that tells us something
00:40:08.280 about not only
00:40:09.740 the whole scope
00:40:10.880 of salvation history
00:40:11.800 but the very tiny
00:40:13.840 little sliver of history
00:40:14.840 that you and I
00:40:15.360 find ourselves in
00:40:16.220 and how we can
00:40:17.180 advance the good
00:40:17.860 in our own way
00:40:18.700 by cooperating
00:40:19.640 with God's grace
00:40:20.280 while we're here
00:40:20.820 thank you so much
00:40:23.060 applause
00:40:25.060 applause
00:40:26.060 hi my name is Lucy
00:40:31.280 and I'm a senior
00:40:32.540 in high school
00:40:33.400 I'm Catholic
00:40:34.700 so I'm wondering
00:40:36.480 how do you
00:40:38.440 balance your faith
00:40:39.820 and political ideas
00:40:41.120 with people
00:40:41.800 who believe
00:40:42.280 the same things
00:40:42.960 politically
00:40:43.480 but not religiously
00:40:45.840 and so it's important
00:40:47.680 to spread
00:40:48.320 like prominent truths
00:40:49.580 that are key
00:40:50.200 to this country
00:40:51.420 and life itself
00:40:52.520 but how do we
00:40:53.980 do this
00:40:54.420 while having
00:40:55.000 extreme differences
00:40:55.980 that are so key
00:40:56.700 to each person
00:40:57.440 in their lives
00:40:58.180 such as religious
00:40:59.080 versus like
00:40:59.940 non-religious teachings
00:41:01.560 I try to drag them
00:41:03.000 to the inquisitor
00:41:03.920 and make sure
00:41:06.020 they're tortured
00:41:06.760 long enough
00:41:07.560 that they
00:41:08.220 eventually believe
00:41:10.200 what I do
00:41:10.580 usually
00:41:11.000 if there's an inquisitor
00:41:12.300 nearby
00:41:12.680 which there isn't
00:41:13.400 always necessarily
00:41:14.380 so
00:41:14.780 maybe I have to
00:41:15.880 do it myself
00:41:16.420 I try to keep it simple
00:41:20.420 and I think simplicity
00:41:21.660 is really helpful here
00:41:22.720 I totally recognize
00:41:26.460 and respect
00:41:26.840 that I have plenty
00:41:27.560 of friends
00:41:27.880 who have different
00:41:28.460 religious views
00:41:29.080 than I do
00:41:29.540 even different
00:41:30.080 cultural views
00:41:30.680 they even have
00:41:31.980 different political views
00:41:34.660 in as much as
00:41:35.720 if you line up
00:41:36.860 a hundred libs
00:41:38.000 in a room
00:41:38.960 99% chance
00:41:41.340 they all agree
00:41:41.980 on every single thing
00:41:42.980 and they will unify
00:41:43.880 they're all different
00:41:44.600 shades of progressive
00:41:45.400 maybe the same shade
00:41:46.360 to progressive
00:41:46.800 if you get
00:41:47.820 a hundred conservatives
00:41:48.820 into a room
00:41:49.520 you all know this
00:41:50.600 what is the
00:41:51.080 what is the first thing
00:41:52.000 they want to do
00:41:52.580 they all want to figure out
00:41:54.100 the one issue
00:41:54.980 that they disagree on
00:41:56.120 then they want to
00:41:56.840 rip each other apart
00:41:57.860 and say
00:41:58.660 you're not a true believer
00:41:59.720 no you're not
00:42:00.540 no I'm the real conservative
00:42:01.420 so it's
00:42:01.920 so this really extends
00:42:03.420 even beyond the realm
00:42:04.380 of religion
00:42:04.940 into
00:42:05.480 into thoughts
00:42:06.700 more broadly
00:42:07.280 and the way I think of it is
00:42:08.300 I just believe
00:42:10.860 certain things
00:42:11.700 and I believe
00:42:13.140 certain things
00:42:13.760 with varying degrees
00:42:14.880 of confidence
00:42:15.520 and I prioritize
00:42:17.900 certain beliefs
00:42:18.880 more than others
00:42:19.960 and certain views
00:42:21.240 that I hold
00:42:21.920 that I consider
00:42:22.560 to be true
00:42:23.160 I recognize
00:42:24.500 that sometimes
00:42:25.360 we have to make
00:42:25.960 prudential compromises
00:42:27.240 not in the belief
00:42:28.040 but in the coalitions
00:42:29.280 that we can form
00:42:29.980 to actually do something
00:42:30.920 good in the world
00:42:31.640 and I just kind of
00:42:33.420 approach politics
00:42:34.360 that way
00:42:34.880 so if a friend
00:42:36.300 of mine
00:42:36.720 comes up
00:42:37.220 and he says
00:42:37.580 Michael
00:42:37.960 you know
00:42:38.920 I believe
00:42:39.440 that God exists
00:42:40.560 and morality exists
00:42:41.760 and you know
00:42:42.760 babies are babies
00:42:43.620 and marriage is real
00:42:44.560 and boys can't become girls
00:42:45.860 and borders need to exist
00:42:47.580 and we need
00:42:48.080 some restraint
00:42:49.060 and flourishing
00:42:49.580 in America
00:42:50.180 but
00:42:50.960 I prefer
00:42:53.100 the Novus Ordo
00:42:54.540 Missae
00:42:55.120 to the Tridentine
00:42:56.400 right of the mass
00:42:57.460 so you're out
00:42:59.780 you're off my team
00:43:00.600 no you can't
00:43:01.220 you can't possibly
00:43:01.880 say that
00:43:02.400 you know
00:43:02.780 the paramount
00:43:04.240 political virtue
00:43:05.080 is prudence
00:43:05.920 it's not exactly
00:43:07.440 justice
00:43:07.900 it's not exactly
00:43:08.880 courage
00:43:09.340 courage is the
00:43:10.100 prerequisite
00:43:10.500 of the other virtues
00:43:11.300 but it's prudence
00:43:12.280 so you have to come
00:43:13.080 to prudential compromises
00:43:14.720 and purists
00:43:16.580 in political life
00:43:17.560 will say no
00:43:18.460 they'll call you
00:43:18.940 a sellout
00:43:19.520 they'll yell
00:43:20.000 all sorts of things
00:43:20.800 but they'll be doing
00:43:21.840 that from their couch
00:43:22.540 because they're not
00:43:22.980 doing anything at all
00:43:23.840 and you're going to be
00:43:24.700 out there actually
00:43:25.300 improving things
00:43:26.060 and it's
00:43:26.480 I think better
00:43:27.380 to be the man
00:43:27.920 in the arena
00:43:28.380 and I think
00:43:28.840 at least my religion
00:43:29.580 is one
00:43:29.980 that recognizes man
00:43:31.660 as a political creature
00:43:32.780 an incarnate creature
00:43:33.980 out in the world
00:43:34.860 living out
00:43:35.840 sacramental realities
00:43:36.900 and that's a perfectly
00:43:37.580 fine thing
00:43:38.220 thank you
00:43:39.860 we have time
00:43:47.080 for one final question
00:43:48.260 that's because
00:43:48.820 because I've been blabbing
00:43:49.620 so much
00:43:50.080 we've gotten to
00:43:50.560 so few questions
00:43:51.480 I'll try to keep
00:43:52.460 this one shorter
00:43:53.080 hey Mr. Knowles
00:43:53.900 my name is Juan Diaz
00:43:55.120 I'm from the University
00:43:55.880 of Texas at El Paso
00:43:56.880 and my question to you
00:43:58.340 is coming from a border city
00:43:59.400 many leftists use religion
00:44:00.980 to justify open border policies
00:44:02.720 yes they often dismiss
00:44:04.120 theological arguments
00:44:05.100 against them
00:44:05.680 how can I effectively
00:44:06.920 challenge open border policies
00:44:08.360 using secular reasoning
00:44:09.360 we can speak
00:44:11.520 in secular terms
00:44:12.820 I'm happy to do it
00:44:13.680 I did it for a lot
00:44:14.500 of my speech tonight
00:44:15.320 but ultimately
00:44:17.000 good and bad
00:44:19.300 efficient and inefficient
00:44:20.800 ultimately those kinds
00:44:22.720 of terms are going to
00:44:23.980 prove themselves
00:44:25.100 to be insufficient
00:44:26.060 to deeper terms
00:44:27.100 like sin and grace
00:44:28.700 you know ultimately
00:44:29.660 is what we're going
00:44:30.220 to get down to
00:44:30.840 so if you want to appeal
00:44:32.240 to secular reasoning
00:44:33.520 you can say
00:44:35.080 well for starters
00:44:36.160 that it's illegal
00:44:37.560 to cross the border
00:44:38.520 illegally
00:44:39.020 you could say
00:44:40.680 you could point to
00:44:41.940 the civil law
00:44:42.660 you could point to
00:44:43.220 immigration law
00:44:43.880 you could point to
00:44:44.560 the constitution
00:44:45.300 which establishes us
00:44:46.440 as a nation
00:44:47.020 distinct from other nations
00:44:48.560 that would be some
00:44:49.660 secular reasoning
00:44:50.580 you could point to
00:44:52.180 natural reason
00:44:53.880 the Aristotelian arguments
00:44:55.480 that we were discussing
00:44:56.260 tonight
00:44:56.700 for liberality
00:44:59.420 in giving to people
00:45:00.480 generously
00:45:01.660 but not to excess
00:45:02.760 you could do all of that
00:45:04.360 I guess
00:45:04.980 however
00:45:06.740 I think the more
00:45:07.840 effective way
00:45:08.580 to move the ball
00:45:09.900 down the field
00:45:10.480 with something like
00:45:11.480 immigration
00:45:12.420 where as you point out
00:45:14.600 so many religious
00:45:15.860 institutions
00:45:16.740 and organizations
00:45:17.520 are putting so
00:45:19.020 many resources
00:45:20.220 behind
00:45:21.040 subverting our
00:45:23.280 immigration law
00:45:24.060 and funneling
00:45:24.880 millions of people
00:45:25.740 into the country
00:45:26.180 probably the most
00:45:27.280 effective thing
00:45:27.800 you can do
00:45:28.280 is get a bunch
00:45:29.540 of nerds
00:45:30.220 to go do an audit
00:45:31.280 of the federal government
00:45:32.200 and recognize
00:45:33.060 that millions
00:45:34.900 and millions
00:45:35.400 and billions
00:45:35.860 of your taxpayer dollars
00:45:37.080 have been going
00:45:37.840 to fund
00:45:38.280 those very
00:45:39.000 religious organizations
00:45:40.040 that are subverting
00:45:41.220 not only our
00:45:41.820 immigration law
00:45:42.560 but also the religions
00:45:44.000 that they purport
00:45:44.760 to serve
00:45:45.260 and if we just
00:45:46.060 cut them off
00:45:47.080 from the public dole
00:45:48.340 for even like five minutes
00:45:49.820 they will wither away
00:45:50.760 because they are creations
00:45:52.180 of a liberal patronage system
00:45:54.060 that has been identified
00:45:55.480 and is increasingly
00:45:56.920 being nuked
00:45:57.720 by a South African
00:45:59.040 rocket man
00:46:00.000 and electric car maker
00:46:01.760 so that
00:46:02.420 in a very practical sense
00:46:04.140 that is what I would
00:46:05.220 focus on
00:46:05.760 I would focus on
00:46:06.720 the very real
00:46:07.780 and even material
00:46:09.400 sticks and carrots
00:46:10.480 that exist
00:46:11.540 to create this funnel
00:46:13.420 of people
00:46:13.820 coming into the country
00:46:14.700 and then you can make
00:46:16.160 your secular arguments
00:46:17.140 but then you should ask
00:46:18.440 your interlocutors
00:46:19.540 you say
00:46:20.000 why do we have to make
00:46:21.240 secular arguments
00:46:22.180 ultimately
00:46:23.120 you know
00:46:23.700 like God exists
00:46:25.140 and morality is real
00:46:26.100 and we all behave
00:46:26.800 as though that's true
00:46:27.660 24 hours of the day
00:46:29.340 even when we're sinning
00:46:30.640 we behave that's true
00:46:31.420 because we feel guilty
00:46:32.160 about it
00:46:32.660 so you know
00:46:33.640 cut the nonsense man
00:46:35.460 let's just
00:46:35.940 let's just talk turkey
00:46:37.440 it's just me and you here kid
00:46:38.540 you know
00:46:38.740 that's how I would
00:46:39.480 talk about it
00:46:40.160 and perhaps you'll disarm them
00:46:41.900 and maybe you'll be able
00:46:42.540 to convince them
00:46:43.060 of things
00:46:43.560 that are even more important
00:46:45.040 believe it or not
00:46:45.680 than the southern border
00:46:46.960 thank you very much
00:46:48.520 wonderful to be with you
00:46:49.540 thank you