The Michael Knowles Show - April 27, 2025


Michael Knowles V Matt Fradd： “Christian Heresies＂ FACE-OFF


Episode Stats

Length

26 minutes

Words per Minute

176.83165

Word Count

4,667

Sentence Count

607

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

50


Summary

On this episode of Face Off, host John Rocha is joined by Matt Fradd and Michael Knowles to play a game of "Who Knows More About Catholic Heresies?" to determine who knows the most about Catholic heresies.


Transcript

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00:00:37.700 Which Catholic group has been condemned for heretical views and for rejecting the legitimacy of modern popes?
00:00:44.520 Is it A, the Jesuits?
00:00:45.880 B, the Legionnaires of Christ?
00:00:47.540 C, the Society of St. Pius X?
00:00:49.680 D, Opus Dei?
00:00:51.220 Oh, he's got none of these right.
00:00:53.080 Yeah.
00:00:53.340 And he doesn't even realize it.
00:00:54.880 Yeah.
00:00:55.240 Do we have to throw this one out?
00:00:56.620 No, we should leave it.
00:00:58.460 I want your ignorance to be unfair as mine is.
00:01:02.260 What is a heresy?
00:01:04.080 I don't know.
00:01:04.840 I'm a non-denominational Christian.
00:01:06.320 But do you know who does know?
00:01:07.720 And may or may not be guilty of a few?
00:01:09.680 The two men stepping into today's intellectual arena.
00:01:12.940 Michael Knowles and Matt Fradd.
00:01:14.860 One of them has spent a life studying the writings of Aquinas, memorizing councils,
00:01:19.520 and years with a dialect coach to develop a convincing Australian accent.
00:01:22.820 The other has attempted the Bible in a year plan at least a dozen times and hasn't made it past Second Kings.
00:01:28.700 I won't say who's who, but today we will find out who really knows more about Catholic heresies.
00:01:34.060 Here's how we play.
00:01:35.140 I will read a question.
00:01:36.360 Each podcaster will have 30 seconds to write down their answer.
00:01:39.000 And in the end, the loser will be forced to give a 30-second commercial for the winner.
00:01:44.220 And admit that John Calvin had some good points.
00:01:46.500 This is Face Off.
00:01:47.620 Here's it.
00:01:47.920 It's wonderful to be on my own show.
00:01:53.640 I'm a little nervous, though, because last I checked, Mr. Fradd has his own Catholic AI company.
00:02:00.600 Is that right, Truthly?
00:02:01.780 So how do I know you're not just plugged in there pulling up all the answers?
00:02:04.760 Because I also believe that it's always immoral without exception to lie.
00:02:09.660 And if so, if you believe that, then I don't have anything pulled up.
00:02:13.420 Yeah, okay.
00:02:14.380 All right.
00:02:14.800 This is good.
00:02:15.400 Thank you.
00:02:15.740 People should go check out Truthly.
00:02:16.940 It's like ChatGPT went through OCIA, got baptized, and is now the best evangelist.
00:02:21.680 So check it out.
00:02:22.320 Thank you for pointing that out.
00:02:23.780 Certainly.
00:02:24.360 I hope that I get to light up a Pints with Aquinas cigar later.
00:02:27.700 But for now, shall we turn to the resident heretic to ask the questions?
00:02:31.520 I think we should.
00:02:32.340 I'm glad that Matt couched that, that he's always honest, because he has a computer in front of him and can Google any of these questions.
00:02:37.960 Yeah.
00:02:38.620 But as long as my hands aren't by the keyboard.
00:02:40.620 By the way, I'm going to fail this.
00:02:42.040 I literally asked before we click record, what is this on?
00:02:45.420 And so I haven't spent much time.
00:02:48.300 Yeah, here we go.
00:02:49.140 Go for it.
00:02:49.860 That'll level out the playing field.
00:02:52.020 Okay.
00:02:52.660 Matt, if it makes you feel better, win or lose, you do have the better oil painting on your set.
00:02:56.980 Like, hands down, your painting does look more impressive than Michael's.
00:03:00.740 Are you sure?
00:03:01.360 Unless you're an iconoclast.
00:03:03.600 Come on.
00:03:04.260 I'm sorry.
00:03:05.120 Wow.
00:03:05.520 All right.
00:03:05.900 It's starting out strong.
00:03:06.940 Too soon.
00:03:08.000 All right.
00:03:08.420 Here we go.
00:03:08.940 First question.
00:03:10.280 What's the bone most often broken by heretics?
00:03:13.820 What does that even mean?
00:03:15.820 I don't understand what that means.
00:03:16.320 I got to write that down.
00:03:17.640 20 seconds.
00:03:18.080 What is the bone broken by heretics?
00:03:21.300 The.
00:03:23.760 Do we have to write this on our board?
00:03:26.260 Yes.
00:03:26.860 10 seconds.
00:03:27.640 You have to write something quick.
00:03:28.800 The.
00:03:28.900 I got no idea.
00:03:32.620 I got nothing.
00:03:33.940 And.
00:03:34.440 Worth the.
00:03:35.140 Worth.
00:03:35.320 Time.
00:03:38.060 I don't have anything.
00:03:39.100 It's some play on like orthopedics or something.
00:03:42.120 I'm sorry, gentlemen.
00:03:43.220 The word we're looking for is the blasphemer.
00:03:45.820 The blasphemer.
00:03:47.140 The blasphemer.
00:03:48.760 No, that's the bone that constitutes the heretics.
00:03:52.740 The bone that the heretic breaks is like some play on orthodoxy.
00:03:58.980 Listen, you're not an expert on rules.
00:04:00.560 The question was what it was.
00:04:02.100 And you guys are both starting 0-0.
00:04:03.640 So here we go.
00:04:04.160 This is not good.
00:04:04.880 With the next question, gentlemen, dial it in.
00:04:07.240 If someone claims Jesus is a creation of God and therefore distinct from God, what heresy are they guilty of?
00:04:14.800 Is it A, Nestorianism?
00:04:16.920 B, modalism?
00:04:18.480 C, Docetism?
00:04:19.940 D, Arianism?
00:04:24.120 Well, I can't show him.
00:04:25.420 Can I?
00:04:25.800 Don't show him yet.
00:04:26.400 Don't show him yet.
00:04:26.980 Brad, don't do it.
00:04:27.760 I can't.
00:04:28.060 I don't have my glasses on.
00:04:29.100 I'll just go on my glasses right now.
00:04:30.460 Whatever.
00:04:30.740 I'm ready.
00:04:31.080 I wrote it.
00:04:31.540 I feel pretty confident that Brad's got this one.
00:04:33.400 This is the easiest of the early church heresies.
00:04:36.260 Come on.
00:04:36.560 Don't even pretend.
00:04:37.660 Why don't you show the audience first then?
00:04:40.060 It's Arianism, right?
00:04:41.120 It's Arianism.
00:04:42.220 What is Nestorianism?
00:04:43.640 I know.
00:04:44.240 That was the one that Muhammad encountered.
00:04:46.360 I think that one actually started Islam, but I forget exactly what that one is.
00:04:51.320 Well, I can teach you right now, but it might be a future question.
00:04:53.380 It might be a question.
00:04:54.120 You're right.
00:04:54.340 Hold off on it.
00:04:55.160 It may be.
00:04:56.360 Number two.
00:04:57.680 When was the last official execution for heresy?
00:05:00.680 And this is closest without going over.
00:05:02.380 Give me the year.
00:05:03.020 Oh, my gosh.
00:05:03.880 The last year.
00:05:04.620 The official.
00:05:05.140 Because there were some, you know, wild priests that may have done a thing or two.
00:05:08.660 But official.
00:05:09.880 What year was it?
00:05:12.600 I mean, I'm just going to guess.
00:05:13.980 How's that?
00:05:15.800 Closest without going over.
00:05:16.940 So remember the rules.
00:05:17.980 Closest without going over.
00:05:18.820 All right.
00:05:19.500 And here's, gosh, official by who?
00:05:22.460 The state?
00:05:23.680 Yeah.
00:05:24.020 Oh, shoot.
00:05:25.140 The state or the church?
00:05:26.780 No, it's not the church.
00:05:29.000 Where does one begin and the other end?
00:05:30.620 That's the question.
00:05:31.220 Make a great point.
00:05:32.340 All right.
00:05:33.380 You ready?
00:05:34.340 All right, Knowles.
00:05:34.800 What do you got?
00:05:35.060 I say 1609.
00:05:38.420 I said 1452 for no reason except it was a blind shot in the dark.
00:05:44.360 Michael, that was very impressive.
00:05:45.660 It was 1612.
00:05:46.980 Yes!
00:05:47.760 I almost said 1611.
00:05:49.340 And I don't know why, but I was like, let me go.
00:05:50.940 Who was it?
00:05:52.260 Edward Whiteman was the last person executed for heresy in England.
00:05:55.840 Let's go.
00:05:56.380 In 1612.
00:05:57.040 All right.
00:05:57.660 Yeah.
00:05:58.180 I did have England in my mind.
00:05:59.340 The church?
00:05:59.920 Let's go.
00:06:00.760 Yeah, England.
00:06:01.120 I thought for sure it would be like in Italy or something.
00:06:03.140 But no, England.
00:06:04.040 The Italians are pretty chill, actually.
00:06:06.020 They don't.
00:06:06.520 The mob kills people.
00:06:07.660 But the church in the city.
00:06:09.320 I've driven through Rome.
00:06:11.140 It was anything but chill.
00:06:12.380 Yeah.
00:06:13.220 Yeah.
00:06:13.700 They're all frenetic.
00:06:14.520 They're just not really doing anything.
00:06:16.180 All right.
00:06:16.680 Number three.
00:06:17.920 Which heresy claims that Jesus was only a non-divine man who was later adopted as the
00:06:22.880 son of God by the descending spirit?
00:06:25.300 Is it A, Ebonism?
00:06:27.600 B, Adoptism?
00:06:29.320 C, Audainism?
00:06:31.660 D, Unitarianism?
00:06:33.260 A lot isn't.
00:06:35.980 All right.
00:06:36.780 Wasn't it like in the name?
00:06:38.420 Let's go, Michael.
00:06:38.820 Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
00:06:39.800 You could have been a little bit more.
00:06:41.080 B?
00:06:41.780 Is Adoptionism?
00:06:43.220 The correct answer is B, Adoptism.
00:06:45.920 Okay.
00:06:46.680 It's Adoptism.
00:06:47.060 Your pronunciation of these heresies, by the way, is really funny.
00:06:50.460 It's because he's a heretic.
00:06:50.920 It's so hard reading these things off as a Protestant who's never been aware of any
00:06:54.100 of these.
00:06:54.800 Like, it's very hard.
00:06:55.460 You've just believed them.
00:06:56.700 Yeah.
00:06:56.980 I mean, you haven't been aware of them.
00:06:58.300 You've just held them.
00:07:00.220 More heresies in a moment.
00:07:01.500 First, though, if you want to get the latest news, and if you want to understand what the
00:07:04.620 news actually means, come check out and subscribe to The Michael Knowles Show every weekday at
00:07:08.520 noon Eastern.
00:07:09.180 I will take you beneath the surface of daily political events to reveal their historical,
00:07:12.820 philosophical, even religious roots.
00:07:14.700 Catch it Monday through Friday at noon Eastern.
00:07:16.880 Now, back to face-off, heresies with Matt Fradd.
00:07:20.480 All right, number four.
00:07:22.320 Which militant heretical group rejected property, demanded all debts be canceled, and glorified
00:07:27.880 martyrdom?
00:07:28.900 Is it A, the Donastus, B, Albigensians, C, Circumcilians, or D, Democrats?
00:07:36.600 I think I have it.
00:07:39.000 I think I got it.
00:07:40.700 All right.
00:07:41.320 What do you have?
00:07:41.860 Is it the Albigensians?
00:07:42.960 The correct answer is C, the Circumcilians.
00:07:48.240 Circumcilians, huh?
00:07:48.900 Yeah.
00:07:49.000 I've never heard of them.
00:07:50.060 Yeah.
00:07:50.400 Those pesky Circumcilians.
00:07:51.820 Because the Albigensians also were militant and pro-death and commies.
00:07:58.600 Yeah.
00:07:58.880 Interesting.
00:08:00.080 I kind of want partial credit for that.
00:08:01.700 I mean, I don't care.
00:08:02.180 I guess I was canceled out.
00:08:03.060 But I think that would also describe the Albigensians.
00:08:06.220 Maybe.
00:08:06.380 Well, the Albigensians were dualists.
00:08:08.780 They were also known as the Cathars, weren't they?
00:08:10.460 The Cathars, yeah.
00:08:11.840 So they were big into poverty and ascetical practices.
00:08:14.400 And that's actually why the Dominicans and Franciscans arose.
00:08:17.660 Well, you know the difference.
00:08:18.460 As a sort of response to them.
00:08:19.640 Matt, you know the difference between, do you know the similarities and differences
00:08:23.860 between the Jesuits and the Dominicans?
00:08:26.660 Okay.
00:08:27.200 I'm thinking this is a joke.
00:08:28.620 No.
00:08:28.860 Oh, well, they're both orders of the Catholic Church, both Spanish, founded by Spaniards,
00:08:34.600 Spanish Orders, St. Dominic and St. Ignatius of Loyola.
00:08:39.120 But they're both founded to combat heresy.
00:08:42.160 The Dominicans founded to combat Albigensianism.
00:08:44.920 The Jesuits founded to combat Protestantism.
00:08:48.580 But you know the difference between the orders?
00:08:50.800 What's the difference?
00:08:52.040 When's the last time you ever heard of an Albigensian?
00:08:55.540 That's good.
00:08:56.500 I heard that actually from Peter Kreef now that you bring it up.
00:08:59.000 It's good.
00:08:59.640 Yeah.
00:09:00.700 Did I miss something?
00:09:01.760 I don't get it at all.
00:09:02.140 Anyway.
00:09:03.060 Anyway, we'll be here all night.
00:09:04.200 Dip your waitress.
00:09:05.080 Anyway.
00:09:05.760 All right.
00:09:06.320 Number five.
00:09:07.200 Which early Jewish Christian sect claimed Jesus was the Messiah but not divine and insisted
00:09:12.500 on following the Mosaic law?
00:09:14.820 Is it A, the Marcionites?
00:09:16.980 B, the Sadducees?
00:09:18.620 C, Ebonites?
00:09:20.440 D, Nestorians?
00:09:22.900 Okay.
00:09:24.220 Are you ready?
00:09:24.980 I think that was Ebiotism.
00:09:27.060 Is that Ebiotism?
00:09:29.200 The correct answer is C, the Ebonites.
00:09:33.300 Ebonites?
00:09:33.760 I thought it was Ebiotism.
00:09:35.940 According to whatever translation this is, Ebonites.
00:09:39.560 Like ebony?
00:09:40.640 But I mean, that's correct.
00:09:41.820 I mean, that's the right.
00:09:42.520 Yeah.
00:09:42.760 Okay.
00:09:43.140 All right.
00:09:43.600 That's the sect of people though.
00:09:44.820 Not like their ism.
00:09:45.860 That was like the sect of people.
00:09:47.020 Yeah.
00:09:47.300 Who are you talking about those people?
00:09:48.820 Okay.
00:09:49.240 It's the Jesuits.
00:09:50.260 Yeah.
00:09:50.400 All right.
00:09:51.120 Number six.
00:09:51.580 Which heresy affirmed Jesus as savior, but rejected the Hebrew Bible and described the
00:09:56.000 Old Testament God as a lesser wrathful deity?
00:09:59.820 Is it A, Docetism?
00:10:02.100 B, Ebonism.
00:10:03.840 C, Marcionism.
00:10:05.860 D, Adoptism.
00:10:09.360 And at some point I'd like a score count because I'm pretty sure he's winning.
00:10:13.240 You ready?
00:10:13.700 We can do that.
00:10:14.980 That would be Marcionism.
00:10:17.100 C.
00:10:18.380 That is correct.
00:10:19.420 C, Marcionism.
00:10:20.760 And can we get a score count from the control room?
00:10:24.900 Knowles, five.
00:10:25.700 Frad, four.
00:10:26.220 This is getting close, gentlemen.
00:10:27.940 Neck to neck.
00:10:29.100 Whoa.
00:10:29.480 All right.
00:10:30.080 If only you had the blasphemer.
00:10:32.180 Yeah, the blasphemer.
00:10:33.780 Yeah.
00:10:34.040 I really want to challenge that.
00:10:35.820 But anyway.
00:10:37.500 Number seven.
00:10:38.360 Which heresy rejected both the divinity and messiahship of Jesus while adhering to Old Testament
00:10:44.480 law?
00:10:45.400 Is it A, Gnosticism?
00:10:46.740 B, Arianism?
00:10:48.060 C, Manichaeism?
00:10:49.820 D, Rabbinic Judaism?
00:10:51.820 And this is the one that gets us fired from the Daily Wire.
00:10:54.400 Okay, that's fine.
00:10:55.380 Would that be D, Rabbinical Judaism?
00:10:56.980 I just wrote Ben Shapiro.
00:11:00.360 I will take either.
00:11:01.760 It is Rabbinic Judaism, D.
00:11:02.760 Would you call Judaism a heresy?
00:11:05.780 According to Google heresies.
00:11:08.840 Doesn't a heresy deviate from the religion?
00:11:12.380 You could call Islam a heresy because it deviates.
00:11:15.580 Like it's founded because Muhammad meets a Nestorian.
00:11:18.520 But for the Rabbinic Jews, if they never believed in any kind of Christianity in the first place,
00:11:23.720 would they be heretics or just infidels?
00:11:26.340 That's what it said.
00:11:26.960 It said it was a heresy.
00:11:28.020 Yeah.
00:11:28.500 All right.
00:11:29.000 Number eight.
00:11:29.420 In what year did the Roman Empire criminalize heresy through the Edict of Thessalonica?
00:11:37.400 This is the closest without going over again.
00:11:39.660 All right.
00:11:40.000 I believe it's pronounced, not to be pedantic, I think it's pronounced Thessalonica, right?
00:11:43.180 Or am I, look, maybe you're right.
00:11:44.420 I don't know.
00:11:44.720 I don't know, but I'm going to guess.
00:11:50.580 Well, Michael's on a guessing hot streak with this whole closest thing.
00:11:53.900 I was going to say 300.
00:11:55.580 I said 315.
00:11:57.760 He's such a savage.
00:11:59.320 It's 380.
00:12:00.620 Yeah, let's go, baby.
00:12:02.480 380.
00:12:03.200 You know why?
00:12:03.680 I figured it had to be after the Edict of Milan, which legalizes Christianity.
00:12:07.840 What was that?
00:12:08.560 That was like 311 or something?
00:12:11.460 313, something like that?
00:12:13.360 Wow, let's go, baby.
00:12:15.020 Oh, man.
00:12:16.000 Just running away with it.
00:12:17.180 Brad's got to catch up here.
00:12:18.320 Yeah, all right.
00:12:18.980 I'm trying to think of my 30-second advertisement.
00:12:21.300 I know it's coming.
00:12:22.780 It's going to be blank.
00:12:24.540 It's going to be speechless.
00:12:26.060 All right.
00:12:27.020 Number nine.
00:12:28.520 What was Priscillian, who was the first Christian executed for heresy by the Roman officials,
00:12:33.520 officially condemned for in 386?
00:12:36.880 Was it A, denying the Trinity, B, practicing sorcery, C, teaching Pelagianism,
00:12:42.520 D, desecrating sacraments?
00:12:47.740 See, my problem is when the name doesn't line up with a heresy, I'm out of luck.
00:12:52.840 Is it A?
00:12:53.280 Is it A?
00:12:54.160 The correct answer is B, practicing sorcery.
00:12:57.100 Brad gets one step.
00:12:58.180 See, I knew that.
00:12:58.380 I was completely convinced the whole time.
00:13:01.680 Wow.
00:13:02.460 But practicing sorcery.
00:13:04.580 He's still up one.
00:13:06.080 Sorcery isn't heresy.
00:13:08.440 Sorcery, right?
00:13:09.520 Sorcery is bad and sacrilegious, but it's not a heresy.
00:13:12.040 Also, there's nothing to do with jokes.
00:13:12.460 He was a Christian who was doing it, so I think that's...
00:13:14.620 But blasphemer.
00:13:16.360 We began with blasphemer.
00:13:17.840 I feel like we can't hold him too strictly to the...
00:13:19.820 Yeah, you're right.
00:13:20.420 No, you're right.
00:13:20.840 This is in the league of blasphemer.
00:13:22.160 All right.
00:13:22.540 Well, it's getting closer.
00:13:24.080 All right.
00:13:24.520 Here we go.
00:13:25.000 If someone denies church teaching unknowingly, what classification of heretic are they?
00:13:31.300 No multiple choice for this.
00:13:33.700 Yeah, all right.
00:13:35.980 I'm ready.
00:13:37.740 I think we have some Catholics at the office that cling to this one.
00:13:40.960 As long as I don't know, I'm good.
00:13:43.080 There's quite a lot of things he's writing there.
00:13:45.800 Hopefully, he's making a joke about the person we're thinking of.
00:13:48.620 All right, ready?
00:13:49.540 Yeah.
00:13:50.460 What do you got, Fred?
00:13:51.520 Is that material heretic?
00:13:53.340 Yeah.
00:13:54.140 Mike, what do you have?
00:13:54.780 I said a venial sinning heretic, venial, not moral, but slash anyone who was catechized
00:14:02.160 in the 80s or 90s.
00:14:04.560 Well, that was clever, but it's not right.
00:14:07.200 It is actually material heretic.
00:14:09.160 Wow.
00:14:09.940 Now, we are tied up, gentlemen.
00:14:11.560 Yikes.
00:14:12.520 Yes, finally.
00:14:14.260 Yikes.
00:14:14.680 I guess you're right, because it's not all material heretics were catechized in the 80s
00:14:19.980 or 90s, but all people who were catechized in the 80s or 90s have been material heretics.
00:14:24.880 Okay.
00:14:26.120 All right.
00:14:26.560 Here's the way I remember it.
00:14:28.060 Here's a bit of catechesis with a mnemonic device.
00:14:30.920 So you've got the distinction between material heresy and formal heresy.
00:14:33.980 So with material heresy, you have the material you need to then later be perhaps formed into
00:14:39.480 a serious heresy.
00:14:41.860 Wow.
00:14:42.300 That's good.
00:14:43.160 I don't know if that helps anybody.
00:14:44.240 Okay.
00:14:44.640 All right.
00:14:45.420 No, I'll take that.
00:14:46.660 I'm sure it helps somebody.
00:14:48.700 Maybe it'll help you with this one.
00:14:50.360 Number 11.
00:14:51.220 Which Catholic group has been condemned for heretical views and for rejecting the legitimacy
00:14:56.160 of modern popes?
00:14:57.980 It said, A, the Jesuits.
00:14:59.320 B, the Legionnaires of Christ.
00:15:00.780 C, the Society of St. Pius X, D, Opus Dei.
00:15:05.060 Oh, he's got none of these right.
00:15:07.080 Yeah.
00:15:07.360 And he doesn't even realize it.
00:15:08.900 Yeah.
00:15:10.940 Should we write the real group?
00:15:12.900 Or like...
00:15:13.620 Yeah, we could write the real group, but it's none of them.
00:15:17.040 Do we have to throw this one out?
00:15:18.300 Because like we...
00:15:18.980 No, we should leave it.
00:15:20.060 I want your ignorance to be on the display as mine is.
00:15:23.320 Some crackpot researchers that have really dug into Catholic heresies since the 80s when
00:15:27.980 I was catechized.
00:15:29.200 Yeah, hold on.
00:15:30.120 I mean, I guess you could call these people not even...
00:15:32.960 Well, not heretics, but at least sedivacantists would be...
00:15:39.120 Yeah, the sedivacantists are the real answer.
00:15:42.180 Mm-hmm.
00:15:42.820 Now I say...
00:15:43.440 Right.
00:15:43.860 Sedivacantists?
00:15:44.660 And who knows?
00:15:45.860 I mean, some of them...
00:15:47.140 Maybe you could accuse...
00:15:47.780 You could, I guess, in principle, accuse some of them of heresy, but the one...
00:15:51.960 I guess you were going to say SSPX, but they're just canonically irregular, Mr. Davies.
00:15:57.660 Well, that is actually the abbreviation that we had for it, and that is correct.
00:16:01.700 If we can scroll back so I see the name again, it was...
00:16:05.420 The answer was C, the Society of St. Pius X, SSPX.
00:16:10.240 That's incorrect, is the problem.
00:16:11.880 You lose a point.
00:16:13.220 You're wrong about that, but...
00:16:15.080 Hold on.
00:16:15.720 Can we pull up truthfully real quick and double-check this?
00:16:17.840 Yeah, we don't need truthfully for that one.
00:16:19.780 The thing is, though, you tried to trick us with that first answer because the trick,
00:16:25.400 of course, is that the Jesuits have never been formally condemned for their heresies,
00:16:28.980 so that was out there.
00:16:30.620 And, no, SSPX, whatever problems there are, they're canonically irregular, we say.
00:16:36.480 And some accuse them of being sysmatic, but it's controversial.
00:16:40.620 But it's the say days that you wanted to say.
00:16:42.640 Can we double-check that in the control room?
00:16:43.920 We already upset the Jews.
00:16:44.340 We don't need to upset the trads, either.
00:16:46.300 Yeah.
00:16:46.560 You don't need to check it, Ben, I can assure you, because Brad and I told you.
00:16:51.960 I even threw out a couple of these because it was like that where it's like, oh, you
00:16:53.840 know, it was just not officially said damage.
00:16:55.460 This was like the one that it would say, like, it was heretical.
00:16:57.840 Yeah, you should delete that, whatever website you were on.
00:17:00.240 You should use truthfully.
00:17:01.480 You should use truthfully.
00:17:02.260 Right now, go to hallow.com slash Knowles.
00:17:04.940 I want to share something special with you as we move from Lent into Easter.
00:17:08.640 You know how Lent was all about fasting and reflection?
00:17:10.960 Well, Easter is our time to rejoice and remember that Christ died and rose for us.
00:17:15.020 Hallow has put together this amazing Easter program with Sister Miriam James Heidland,
00:17:19.280 Father John Burns, and even Liz Tabish.
00:17:22.180 You know, the actress who plays Mary Magdalene in The Chosen.
00:17:25.400 Also, Kevin James is part of it, too.
00:17:27.160 They're all exploring this beautiful spiritual book called Interior Freedom by Father Jacques Philippe.
00:17:31.660 The program is designed to help you experience true freedom in your everyday life.
00:17:36.680 Every day, you'll learn practical ways to let go of those external things that weigh you down
00:17:40.780 and discover the peace that comes from trusting God more deeply.
00:17:43.960 It's perfect for continuing those prayer habits you worked so hard to build during Lent.
00:17:47.520 Just a few minutes each day for reflections, prayers, and meditations that really connect with the joy of Easter.
00:17:52.860 Hallow is not just for Easter.
00:17:54.140 We've got thousands of prayers, meditations, even music to help you build that daily prayer habit and grow closer to God.
00:18:00.100 Download it today.
00:18:00.760 We're offering three months totally free.
00:18:02.500 Hallow.com slash Knowles for this exclusive offer.
00:18:06.180 All right, number 12.
00:18:07.200 Which pope once declared heretics to be worse than Muslims?
00:18:11.460 Was it A, Pope Innocent III?
00:18:13.900 B, Pope Urbane II?
00:18:16.060 C, Pope Gregory IX?
00:18:18.020 D, Pope Benedict IX?
00:18:19.440 I like how you've turned Urban II, who's very based and declares the First Crusade,
00:18:29.640 into a kind of more posh, nice version when he's Pope Urbane.
00:18:33.040 You know, that's like his...
00:18:35.040 It rolls off the tongue.
00:18:35.980 It's like Urban, Urban in the day, and then Urbane at the cocktail party, you know.
00:18:42.080 You tell me when you're ready and we'll flip this bad boy around.
00:18:44.900 Kind of torn on two, but I don't know, I said B.
00:18:47.320 The answer is C, Pope Gregory IX.
00:18:49.320 We said Gregory IX.
00:18:51.040 What'd you have, Brad?
00:18:52.620 I had the same as him.
00:18:53.740 I know, I had a C.
00:18:54.420 I had C.
00:18:55.080 No, I had C.
00:18:56.280 Yeah.
00:18:56.860 What was that you said about the immorality of lying under all circumstances?
00:19:01.180 Hold on.
00:19:01.880 Sorry, only when it doesn't benefit me.
00:19:03.840 I should have added that last time.
00:19:05.180 Because was Gregory IX, like I'm wondering if Urban II was the First Crusade,
00:19:09.680 obviously to go slay all the Saracens,
00:19:11.700 but then was Gregory IX like the Cathar Crusade or something,
00:19:15.000 when you're saying, actually, we've got enough heretics here
00:19:17.000 that we need to crusade against, or I don't know, I don't remember.
00:19:19.620 I didn't even get the answer right, so I got nothing.
00:19:21.360 Yeah, okay.
00:19:22.340 Darn, I was really leaning.
00:19:25.540 For a while, that way.
00:19:26.740 Okay, never mind.
00:19:27.300 Next one.
00:19:28.060 I haven't been following you the entire time.
00:19:29.660 Yeah.
00:19:30.040 But I think we are still tied going down the homestretch.
00:19:32.360 Yikes.
00:19:33.120 Oh, here we go.
00:19:35.300 13.
00:19:36.080 Which heresy did the Catholic Church launch the Albigensian?
00:19:39.820 This is going to kill me.
00:19:42.120 For which heresy did the Catholic Church launch the Albigensian Crusade to suppress?
00:19:48.460 Is it A, Montanism?
00:19:50.680 Would it be the Albigensian?
00:19:51.660 I think it was Albigensianism.
00:19:54.360 I'm no scholar.
00:19:55.540 A, Montanism.
00:20:00.500 B, Donatism.
00:20:02.800 C, Catharism.
00:20:04.820 Or D, Nestorianism.
00:20:06.660 So, sorry, gentlemen.
00:20:07.560 I got it.
00:20:08.140 I got it.
00:20:09.080 Your emphasis, Mr. Benjamin, is quite interesting, but it would be Catharism.
00:20:15.700 It is Catharism.
00:20:17.080 C.
00:20:18.220 Also known as?
00:20:20.220 Albigensianism.
00:20:20.660 Albigensianism.
00:20:21.700 I had no idea.
00:20:23.080 It's way easier when you put it that way.
00:20:25.400 I had no idea those two words were connected.
00:20:28.440 All right.
00:20:28.820 14.
00:20:30.320 What was the heresy introduced by Gottfried Thomasis that claimed Jesus gave up some divine
00:20:36.240 attributes in his incarnate state?
00:20:38.460 Did A, Mortalism.
00:20:40.660 B, Kenosis.
00:20:41.940 C, Humanic Christianity.
00:20:43.980 D, Removism.
00:20:47.980 Humanic Christianity sounds very 19th century, so I'm going with that.
00:20:52.500 Y'all are both wrong.
00:20:54.400 It's B, Kenosis.
00:20:56.540 I thought that's what happens when you stop eating carbs.
00:21:01.300 Isn't that?
00:21:01.920 You're like, my body's in kenosis.
00:21:04.160 Doesn't kenosis mean knowledge?
00:21:08.460 I couldn't tell you.
00:21:09.680 And if it does, what does that have to do with?
00:21:11.880 I wonder.
00:21:12.440 Well, this is something we can look up later.
00:21:14.140 Thank you for getting me.
00:21:14.580 We should have looked this all up on truthfully.
00:21:16.280 Definitely on truthfully.
00:21:17.500 Yeah.
00:21:18.300 All right.
00:21:19.480 This is the final question, gentlemen.
00:21:21.380 Thanks.
00:21:22.160 Is this a draw so far?
00:21:24.280 I think it's a draw.
00:21:25.100 It is.
00:21:26.140 They'll check.
00:21:26.780 All right.
00:21:27.420 So is it possible for us to draw, or will you give us a bonus question so one of us can win?
00:21:33.360 There will be a bonus question so someone can win.
00:21:35.760 All right.
00:21:36.780 All right.
00:21:37.440 Queen Mary I of England, known as Bloody Mary, launched a campaign to purge heresy from England
00:21:42.000 after her false pregnancies, which she considered, quote, God's punishment for tolerating heretics.
00:21:47.160 How many heretics were burned at the stake during her reign?
00:21:50.520 This is an estimation.
00:21:51.660 Not enough.
00:21:52.060 That's how many.
00:21:53.020 Closest without going over.
00:21:54.080 Oh, come on.
00:21:57.280 Oh.
00:21:57.820 Oh, we have to end on one of these, too.
00:21:59.280 Sorry, Matt.
00:22:00.000 And, you know, this is an estimation, but we'll just go with this number.
00:22:03.660 I'm waiting to see how much his pen moves before I know what I'm going to do.
00:22:10.840 Oh.
00:22:11.240 Oh, my gosh.
00:22:16.300 These are all really difficult.
00:22:18.580 He's really good at these guesses, you know?
00:22:20.700 Yeah.
00:22:21.140 He loves the closest without going over thing.
00:22:23.980 All right.
00:22:24.460 I'm just going to pick a ridiculous number, hoping that he went too high.
00:22:29.700 All right?
00:22:31.080 All right.
00:22:31.660 Michael, what do you have?
00:22:32.700 Was it ridiculous?
00:22:33.940 It wasn't ridiculous.
00:22:34.900 It was reasonable and modest.
00:22:36.640 What did you put?
00:22:37.300 I said 90.
00:22:37.980 Oh, crap.
00:22:39.480 Okay.
00:22:40.360 I put a thousand.
00:22:41.580 A thousand?
00:22:42.600 A thousand.
00:22:44.040 The massacre, Mary.
00:22:46.040 The correct answer is 280.
00:22:48.580 Let's go.
00:22:49.620 Oh!
00:22:50.900 Oh, man.
00:22:53.240 Right at the finish line.
00:22:55.300 Well done.
00:22:55.620 Based on no knowledge.
00:22:57.380 That was just a guess based on how numbers work.
00:23:00.900 Wow.
00:23:01.360 Story of your life, yeah.
00:23:02.340 Whoa.
00:23:03.760 Wow.
00:23:04.200 Well, Michael, soak it in for a moment.
00:23:05.940 However, if you wish, since this is a gentleman's game, you can put-
00:23:10.220 Yeah, I don't.
00:23:10.640 I don't at all wish to do a double or nothing.
00:23:13.640 No, I just want to win.
00:23:14.860 Risk it all, double or nothing on a bonus question.
00:23:17.300 Yeah, no, I'm good.
00:23:17.460 Thanks anyway.
00:23:17.980 Double or nothing.
00:23:18.880 I do have a story for you, though, about Queen Mary, which is I looked this up one time
00:23:22.900 because on one side I'm Italian and Catholic, Irish Catholic too, but on one side I'm
00:23:27.720 super wasp in English and like the Mayflower cigar side.
00:23:30.840 And so I was trying to figure out if there was a chance that I was a direct descendant
00:23:36.480 of Sir Francis Knowles, Sir Francis Knowles, who was keeper of the Privy Purse, who was
00:23:41.880 the imprisoner of Mary, Queen of Scots, and who mocked St. Edmund Campion on the scaffold
00:23:47.220 and demanded that he renounce the Pope.
00:23:49.460 But instead of that, following this line of like really royal, well-educated people,
00:23:54.820 I think instead the last Knowles I can trace was a mariner in New Hampshire and very likely
00:24:00.360 illiterate.
00:24:01.040 You win some, you lose some.
00:24:04.660 Man, oh, I won it.
00:24:06.560 I won some.
00:24:07.500 You did.
00:24:07.880 Let's go, baby.
00:24:08.780 No, I gotta, Mr. Fred, I have to admit, going into this, I was a little nervous because you
00:24:14.400 have much more religious knowledge than I do.
00:24:17.280 What I didn't count on is all the random number questions.
00:24:21.420 So anyway, thank you, Ben.
00:24:22.340 I appreciate that.
00:24:23.020 And for your marvelous pronunciation of all of the heresies.
00:24:25.720 Michael, to the victor goes the spoils, even though, you know, it wasn't exactly a gentleman's
00:24:30.140 way to do it or win it.
00:24:32.220 So, Mr. Fratt, would you please give us a 30-second commercial for the Michael Knowles?
00:24:36.280 All right.
00:24:37.440 Set timer for 30 seconds.
00:24:39.840 Thank you, Truthly.
00:24:41.320 I mean, my goodness.
00:24:43.000 I mean, Michael Knowles, I mean, he's not sure if Ben Shapiro is a heretic or not.
00:24:49.700 He hasn't made up his mind.
00:24:50.780 He leans towards no.
00:24:52.060 He's a wonderful guy.
00:24:53.560 He's got a great line of cigars and just, he's got hair.
00:24:59.800 Yeah, hold on.
00:25:00.340 You got like 20 more seconds.
00:25:01.700 Is that all out?
00:25:03.020 He's got really just, he's got a couple of eyeballs and it's all held together with like
00:25:09.180 a face, you know?
00:25:10.940 And that's, there we go.
00:25:12.960 That's time.
00:25:14.480 That was the worst.
00:25:17.360 You wouldn't even get in there that I would happily call Ben an infidel.
00:25:21.280 I can't, that's, that's terrible.
00:25:23.180 All right.
00:25:23.580 Well, it's a plug is a plug.
00:25:25.960 Wow.
00:25:26.260 That was absolutely beautiful and heartfelt, Matt.
00:25:29.720 And there you have it.
00:25:31.100 And if you haven't already, please go subscribe to Pines of Aquinas on YouTube.
00:25:34.600 Grab a copy of How to Be Happy, St. Thomas's Secret to a Good Life, available wherever books
00:25:39.400 are sold.
00:25:39.900 And download the new Catholic AI app, Truthly, in the App Store.
00:25:43.700 And please post in the comments who we should have next and what topic to cover in the next
00:25:47.300 episode of Face Off.
00:25:51.280 This Men's Mental Health Month, CAMH is confronting a silent crisis.
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