The Michael Knowles Show - Michael & Shocking Psychedelic Stories：＂The Light Beings Held Me Down＂

00:00:00.000 When I started getting into DMT,

00:00:02.060 where I was having encounters with light beings.

00:00:04.000 What did you think the light beings were?

00:00:06.000 With acid and mushrooms, you don't typically,

00:00:09.720 at least I never had visuals.

00:00:11.500 With the DMT, this was like full on,

00:00:14.540 like you're seeing a whole world just crack open

00:00:17.200 in front of you.

00:00:18.040 What would they tell you?

00:00:18.880 These three beings come in my room,

00:00:20.360 and another one came in and was dragging my body.

00:00:22.680 And they told me, if you don't stop doing heroin,

00:00:25.400 this is you.

00:00:30.000 As society continues to get crazier and crazier,

00:00:37.200 one theory I have to explain some of the craziness

00:00:41.740 is that everybody is on drugs.

00:00:44.640 Everybody is on prescription drugs, psychiatric drugs,

00:00:48.560 the legalization of marijuana,

00:00:50.500 and specifically hallucinogenic drugs.

00:00:53.800 Hallucinogenic drug use has increased dramatically

00:00:57.400 in recent years.

00:00:58.520 LSD use is up something like 400%

00:01:02.360 over the last 20 or so years.

00:01:04.480 Psychedelics, more broadly, up significantly.

00:01:07.820 And for all of my sins and degeneracy

00:01:11.880 that I've engaged in in my whole life,

00:01:13.420 drugs has never really been one of them.

00:01:16.560 So I decided to bring on an expert on drug use

00:01:20.020 and how to get off of drug use.

00:01:21.560 That would be Josh Zatkoff.

00:01:23.920 Josh.

00:01:24.560 How you doing?

00:01:25.080 Thank you for coming on the show.

00:01:26.420 Yeah, thank you for having me.

00:01:27.520 Before we started, I said,

00:01:29.120 Josh, how would you like me to introduce you?

00:01:31.080 And you said, I don't know, Josh.

00:01:32.480 Yeah.

00:01:33.480 You now have really turned your life around.

00:01:36.820 Yeah.

00:01:37.320 You are an evangelist.

00:01:39.560 You've had a rough past.

00:01:42.560 Mm-hmm.

00:01:43.680 Homelessness, jail time, and drugs.

00:01:47.760 Correct.

00:01:48.480 Yeah.

00:01:48.880 So the reason I want to find out about all this

00:01:53.900 is not so that I can scold people and say,

00:01:55.940 just say no, like Nancy Reagan.

00:01:57.360 I guess I do kind of want to do that.

00:01:58.420 But I want to know more about it.

00:02:00.640 I want to know why people are so interested in drugs,

00:02:05.160 and specifically in these psychedelic drugs.

00:02:07.840 Yeah.

00:02:08.400 I mean, it's definitely an interesting topic.

00:02:10.600 And I think it's because people are all in a search for something.

00:02:15.620 You know, we're all searching for the more to life.

00:02:19.240 I think for me, personally, it started off with curiosity.

00:02:24.120 You know, for me, I remember being like 11, 12,

00:02:26.880 and seeing the comedy movies, and, you know,

00:02:29.380 they're smoking weed in there and stuff like that.

00:02:31.880 And then so you see that, and you're like, I want to try that.

00:02:35.380 It's being glorified.

00:02:36.560 The cool people are doing it.

00:02:38.940 And so for me, it started out just like that.

00:02:41.480 And then once I was a curious child,

00:02:43.300 so once I had encountered somebody that had access to that,

00:02:48.020 it was natural for me to want to try it.

00:02:50.820 And so when I did, it gave me a new taste of reality,

00:02:56.400 like a different reality.

00:02:57.580 You know, it felt like it was the missing piece to my life that I,

00:03:00.840 you know what I'm saying?

00:03:01.360 Because when I was younger, I started feeling that desolation in my mind

00:03:06.880 or that, you know, that weight of oppression kind of coming on me.

00:03:10.360 And I didn't even know what it was.

00:03:11.480 You know what I mean?

00:03:12.080 I started to feel depressed and stuff before I...

00:03:14.160 You started to feel depressed after you started using drugs

00:03:16.440 or before you started using drugs?

00:03:17.400 No, before.

00:03:18.200 Yeah.

00:03:18.340 But I didn't have, like, the language for it.

00:03:20.680 I didn't know that I was depressed.

00:03:22.200 I just thought I was feeling, you know, sad or something.

00:03:26.420 But it seemed to take, like, a darker turn as far as, like,

00:03:29.820 I don't feel like all my other friends are dealing with this.

00:03:32.500 You know, that's kind of how it started to feel.

00:03:34.240 And so...

00:03:34.740 So it didn't just feel like, you know, 13-year-olds are angsty.

00:03:38.060 And you're saying...

00:03:39.580 Are you saying now, in hindsight even,

00:03:41.940 what I was dealing with was, in fact, heavier

00:03:44.460 or just that it felt heavier?

00:03:46.520 Looking back, I know it was heavier.

00:03:48.140 You know?

00:03:48.740 Because so, like, when I...

00:03:49.340 Like, as a young kid, even, like, 7, 8,

00:03:52.380 I would, like, scratch my face to a bled...

00:03:54.540 Like, I had anger issues.

00:03:55.780 Like, I had all these self-harm, self...

00:03:57.820 You know, like, that stuff was there as a little 7, 8-year-old.

00:04:00.840 You know?

00:04:01.060 And my mom has little, you know, writings

00:04:05.640 or whatever diaries she kept for me.

00:04:08.520 And one of her entries was saying how, you know,

00:04:11.280 she came home from the babysitters

00:04:13.160 and I was chasing with a butcher knife, you know?

00:04:15.100 Like, at 7, 8 years old.

00:04:16.940 And I think I was...

00:04:18.220 She's like, you were just being silly.

00:04:20.400 But just...

00:04:21.040 Yeah, yeah, you know?

00:04:22.260 And so it's like...

00:04:23.820 But that stuff, looking back, was like...

00:04:25.320 It was there.

00:04:26.280 It was blatantly in front of everybody's face.

00:04:28.600 But, like, how do you deal with that?

00:04:30.080 I definitely didn't know it wasn't normal, though.

00:04:33.020 Because I'm not living with other kids,

00:04:34.800 you know what I mean?

00:04:35.520 And it's not like I had a bad childhood.

00:04:37.060 I had great parents, great family, all that.

00:04:38.940 Were your parents married?

00:04:40.380 Yeah, yeah.

00:04:41.300 And so what do you attribute that to?

00:04:43.160 Was it mental illness?

00:04:44.320 Was it a spiritual condition?

00:04:45.920 Was it an accident?

00:04:48.120 No, it was definitely mental illness.

00:04:49.920 But I believe mental illness, most of it,

00:04:52.380 a lot of it is spiritual.

00:04:53.820 That's my take on it.

00:04:55.060 I think a lot of it's spiritual.

00:04:56.960 And so when I look...

00:04:58.040 Because it's always producing something negative.

00:05:00.340 For the most part, people that deal with mental illnesses,

00:05:03.620 whatever variety of it,

00:05:04.740 it always, you know, produces something negative.

00:05:07.300 It's never something, you know, good or, you know,

00:05:10.080 like that does something good for the world.

00:05:12.740 It causes chaos and stuff.

00:05:14.320 And so when I smoked weed for the first time,

00:05:18.520 it was like everything fit together.

00:05:20.180 It was like, oh, this is what I needed.

00:05:23.260 And so it was just instant, like right off the bat,

00:05:25.240 it was like, oh, this is what I want to do in my life.

00:05:27.700 And I tried to, you know, that's kind of,

00:05:29.940 that was my first, it was a romance.

00:05:32.000 It was, you know, it was like love at first sight

00:05:33.560 or something, you know?

00:05:34.560 And so I became obsessed with marijuana

00:05:37.500 because it made me feel like I was a better version of myself.

00:05:41.800 Why marijuana instead of booze?

00:05:45.020 Because I like, I like tobacco and I like alcohol.

00:05:49.780 And I, thankfully, I haven't,

00:05:52.640 for all my problems, that has not been one.

00:05:55.200 I've never really felt addicted to those kinds of things.

00:05:59.020 But I like them, you know?

00:06:00.360 I mean, I like a cigar and I like a drink,

00:06:02.480 whereas I don't really like the old devil's lettuce,

00:06:05.840 which I've smoked on occasion.

00:06:07.180 And that never really grabbed me,

00:06:08.940 but it did grab you.

00:06:10.060 Yeah.

00:06:10.920 No, I think it's a,

00:06:11.740 it might just be a personal preference.

00:06:13.200 I didn't like alcohol

00:06:14.060 because I didn't like how it tasted.

00:06:15.420 I think the first time I drank,

00:06:16.980 I was maybe like 13.

00:06:18.260 And I remember I had a group of friends

00:06:20.240 and it was just, it tasted nasty.

00:06:23.200 And then I was like, man, you know,

00:06:25.260 smoking, it's quick.

00:06:26.300 It's like, you know, within a couple of seconds,

00:06:29.140 but drinking, I'm like,

00:06:29.800 I have to sit here and drink all this stuff

00:06:31.120 and to feel, you know,

00:06:32.280 because I just wanted to feel drunk.

00:06:33.760 Yeah.

00:06:34.260 And so I didn't, I didn't like it

00:06:35.620 because I never liked feeling like sloppy

00:06:37.320 and like so obvious.

00:06:39.300 Weed made me feel like it was a more nonchalant kind of thing.

00:06:43.300 So I think that's why I was just a personal preference.

00:06:45.740 So, so far we've covered all the drugs

00:06:48.480 that I have any familiarity with.

00:06:52.080 When I was a kid, I told you,

00:06:53.420 drugs didn't really attract me at all.

00:06:55.820 With one exception, I was curious about LSD and mushrooms

00:07:01.140 and people now today are always talking about ayahuasca

00:07:04.120 and all these, the psychedelics interested me

00:07:06.980 and I never did them.

00:07:08.460 I kind of had a little bit of a fear of them

00:07:10.200 because I was told when you do it,

00:07:12.320 your brain is never the same.

00:07:13.700 It kind of rewires you.

00:07:14.960 And I thought, well, I don't know.

00:07:15.940 I kind of rely on my brain.

00:07:17.220 So I don't know that I want to rewire it.

00:07:19.520 But I was curious about it.

00:07:21.600 I said, what could I see if I took these drugs?

00:07:24.860 So when did you graduate to those kinds of drugs?

00:07:29.900 So when I got into high school, about 14,

00:07:32.700 you know, I got, I saw the movie The Doors,

00:07:35.700 Jim Morrison with Val Kilmer.

00:07:37.920 And man, I never felt like I related to somebody so much.

00:07:41.360 Like, like when I was watching him,

00:07:43.040 I felt like I was watching the person I wanted to be

00:07:45.500 or something in that movie.

00:07:46.960 So much of me connected with it.

00:07:49.280 And so he was doing peyote and acid and stuff in the movie.

00:07:52.580 And so at some point in high school,

00:07:54.120 I had a friend have acid.

00:07:57.580 And I did it.

00:07:58.580 And it wasn't like, I didn't take enough, I don't think.

00:08:01.880 Nothing really happened, but I felt kind of just different.

00:08:04.760 But nothing really happened.

00:08:05.540 And then a few months later, or yeah,

00:08:09.480 like probably the next year, I think it was like 10th,

00:08:11.280 my sophomore year of high school, I had mushrooms.

00:08:15.020 And so the mushrooms, I was sitting in somebody's car

00:08:17.840 and it was like, it was like weed all over again.

00:08:22.140 It was just a whole new reality.

00:08:23.620 I'm saying, you know, and I spent like three hours,

00:08:25.400 you know, back in the day, it was like the CD players

00:08:27.880 had the little pictures on them.

00:08:29.860 And like, you could pop them in and out.

00:08:31.460 And I was, for three hours,

00:08:32.440 I was just sitting there staring at that,

00:08:33.700 you know, like that, like it just got me entrenched

00:08:35.920 into this, like this new reality.

00:08:37.980 And I'm like, look up, I'm with my friend.

00:08:40.040 And it's like, dude, we've been doing this for four hours,

00:08:41.940 having the time of our life.

00:08:42.960 It was just, it was just so intense.

00:08:45.120 I had this experience of just feeling like there was,

00:08:50.340 like the universe was alive.

00:08:52.160 Like I felt connected to the things that were around me.

00:08:54.780 I felt like I was connected to life in a different way.

00:08:58.340 And I started thinking different.

00:08:59.720 I got more, I guess, deep in my thought.

00:09:01.900 I started just kind of becoming more philosophical

00:09:04.700 and, you know, my approach to just how I was viewing things

00:09:07.740 and my perspective.

00:09:08.580 And so it was like, how, how is it different?

00:09:14.120 In, in that I go through my daily life.

00:09:17.220 I, I feel that the world is teeming with life.

00:09:20.320 I mean, I, I, I feel connected.

00:09:22.500 All the things you're describing,

00:09:23.720 I feel that in my ordinary day-to-day life.

00:09:26.040 You, you describe the sense of going deeper,

00:09:29.500 thinking more philosophically.

00:09:32.220 And I don't, so I, I don't have experience of the mushrooms,

00:09:34.600 but I think I, I read a book

00:09:38.520 and I think more philosophically.

00:09:40.100 Or I look at a work of art and I, I,

00:09:43.640 so how, what was different about the,

00:09:48.180 all of that on the mushrooms?

00:09:51.220 I don't know if I could say exactly,

00:09:52.760 it's, it was more of,

00:09:54.140 it slowed everything down and made me more,

00:09:56.700 like, it was like, oh, look at this water.

00:09:59.660 Like, and you notice every little bubble.

00:10:01.800 It just like made you so appreciative of the moment.

00:10:04.460 It pulled me into the moment in such a way

00:10:06.420 where I appreciated things I never appreciated before.

00:10:08.940 And then there was this feeling of just joy.

00:10:11.100 Like I, I couldn't stop laughing.

00:10:12.600 I had, you know, I mean, I was laughing the whole time

00:10:14.740 and I had the time of my life.

00:10:18.000 And so it just, at that point I was hooked.

00:10:21.380 Like, it was like, I can't wait to ever do this again.

00:10:24.000 And then what happened was I actually went to a rehab,

00:10:28.040 not like a month after that.

00:10:29.480 I went away for, for a year in a rehab.

00:10:31.960 And in that rehab, I got into Buddhism.

00:10:34.860 And so when I started to read about Buddhism

00:10:37.060 and Taoism and stuff and started to meditate,

00:10:40.160 I started to notice that the, the ideology behind it

00:10:44.600 was lining up with the ideology

00:10:46.900 I was kind of having on the mushrooms.

00:10:49.400 So it was like this, you know,

00:10:51.500 there was this dynamic between them

00:10:53.240 that started to kind of cross.

00:10:54.920 Many such cases, by the way.

00:10:56.260 My friends who have gotten into shrooms and acid and stuff,

00:10:59.640 they have gone down that sort of Buddhist,

00:11:04.040 Taoist, Eastern mystical route.

00:11:06.940 So you, you end up in the rehab.

00:11:09.280 Was it a family member or something sent you there or?

00:11:11.660 Yeah, yeah, my parents.

00:11:12.940 Cause my mom, you know, she, on her side of the family,

00:11:15.100 there was a lot of addiction.

00:11:15.900 My dad's side of the family had alcoholism.

00:11:17.900 So they were just being good parents.

00:11:19.200 You know, they see their kid falling down that hole.

00:11:21.920 So they were just trying to help, you know?

00:11:24.120 Right.

00:11:24.480 And, but the thing is, is I was, you know, I was 15.

00:11:27.080 And when you're 15, you think, you know, everything.

00:11:28.960 You don't want help.

00:11:29.840 In my mind, I'm like, I'm just smoking weed.

00:11:33.300 You know, my, I tried an ecstasy pill or something,

00:11:36.020 a couple of things, but in my mind,

00:11:38.040 everyone else I was with was doing the same stuff.

00:11:39.980 So I didn't think it was, you know, absurd or anything.

00:11:41.960 And so when I went to the rehab, I had gotten into, to Buddhism.

00:11:47.600 And while I was there, I think because I didn't have a family

00:11:51.500 and because I didn't have, I'm just with a bunch of kids

00:11:54.300 and from all over the country that I don't know,

00:11:56.640 the place got shut down for child abuse.

00:11:58.720 So it's like, I'm with, you know, wacko people leading it.

00:12:03.700 And I think I felt like I didn't, I only had myself.

00:12:07.680 It was like the first time in my life,

00:12:08.940 it was like, you're on your own kind of thing.

00:12:11.160 You know, that's how it felt was like,

00:12:12.560 all you have is yourself to rely on.

00:12:15.040 And so Buddhism kind of, it taught me, I guess,

00:12:18.580 how to kind of be strong within myself.

00:12:20.700 And it taught me the power of like, what was within me.

00:12:23.100 And it taught, you know what I mean?

00:12:23.980 And so I, I just took to it and I got addicted to it,

00:12:27.720 you know, because I was on ADHD medicine at the time.

00:12:31.540 And so that, you know, gives you hyper-focus and all that.

00:12:35.560 And so I just, that's all, there was nothing else to do.

00:12:38.500 I'm in, I'm stuck in this place for a year.

00:12:41.460 And so that's all I did.

00:12:42.540 I started meditating and reading books and yeah.

00:12:45.020 And you, you found that there was a commonality

00:12:48.220 in the perspective on the world.

00:12:49.820 Did you find there was a common effect?

00:12:52.880 You know, did you get the same sort of high

00:12:54.540 by meditating in this Buddhist manner?

00:12:58.100 I wouldn't say to that extreme or to that extent,

00:13:00.780 but I started meditating and I started having moments

00:13:06.440 where I would get something that would remind me of it.

00:13:08.840 And I'll give you an example.

00:13:09.900 Like there would be moments where I'd feel like

00:13:11.400 I would start kind of vibrating or something,

00:13:14.060 or I would just feel like this, this divine connection

00:13:18.820 that reminded me of when I was on the mushrooms.

00:13:21.000 So it would, it was like these moments of it,

00:13:23.320 but the difference was like,

00:13:24.540 I felt like I had to work for it.

00:13:25.840 So with the mushrooms, it was like,

00:13:26.760 you take this and you stay there, you rest there.

00:13:28.860 But with the Buddhism, it was like,

00:13:31.120 you're doing this stuff.

00:13:32.120 I'm meditating, you know, to get to that place

00:13:34.740 and then try to stay there.

00:13:36.880 So what you're describing sounds generally pleasant.

00:13:41.580 I don't know that it sounds like an ultimate triumph

00:13:44.860 or joy or victory,

00:13:46.000 but at least it sounds kind of pleasant.

00:13:47.620 You're just vibing, you know,

00:13:49.600 feeling with the universe, man.

00:13:51.780 And so how's it go wrong?

00:13:55.560 Oh man, well, so that's kind of a,

00:13:57.480 I mean, that's a long story.

00:13:58.560 We're talking like a decade of journey to find that out.

00:14:02.840 So after the rehab, when I came home,

00:14:06.480 I got in my first legal trouble.

00:14:08.720 So when I got in my first legal trouble, I was 16.

00:14:11.220 I got put on probation.

00:14:12.580 I wouldn't stop smoking weed.

00:14:14.160 You know, I'm actually friends

00:14:15.500 with my probation officer to this day,

00:14:17.460 you know, on social media and stuff.

00:14:18.740 And so she was really cool towards me,

00:14:21.220 but I kept smoking weed and I told her,

00:14:22.780 I said, I'm not going to stop.

00:14:24.060 You know, I said, if you're going to lock me up,

00:14:25.160 you're going to lock me up.

00:14:25.540 And so I was going in and out of juvie.

00:14:27.640 Like, you know, I'd fail my urine test

00:14:29.660 and then I'd go for like 30 days, two weeks, whatever.

00:14:32.800 And then eventually I said, you know what?

00:14:34.220 I got to find something else.

00:14:35.720 And so one day I was on house arrest with my friend

00:14:38.220 and he asked me, he had a painkiller.

00:14:41.920 And he asked me if I wanted to try it with him.

00:14:45.000 Me and him had never done it before.

00:14:47.060 So I did the painkiller.

00:14:48.900 And it was just, it was like the same thing again.

00:14:52.300 It was like this feeling I never had,

00:14:54.240 the best feeling I ever had in my life.

00:14:55.460 Me and him looked at each other

00:14:56.680 and we're like, do you feel that?

00:14:58.400 And so that began basically within six months

00:15:02.420 I was shooting up heroin.

00:15:04.700 Whoa.

00:15:05.280 So at that point,

00:15:07.940 psychedelics were always there

00:15:09.880 as like a here and there thing.

00:15:12.100 They were something I just enjoyed.

00:15:14.880 But then at one point, I guess probably

00:15:17.420 maybe 10 years into it,

00:15:21.520 I'm trying to like do the math in my head

00:15:23.580 of like timeframes around 19,

00:15:26.720 like 20 psychedelics were,

00:15:30.760 they were something that I did when I was,

00:15:32.840 I needed heroin to function basically.

00:15:34.740 Right.

00:15:34.900 So like the heroin was,

00:15:36.080 that was my addiction.

00:15:37.120 But the psychedelics at that point,

00:15:38.820 they started off in high school

00:15:39.940 as like a party thing.

00:15:40.760 It's like you go to the party,

00:15:41.800 you have fun, you laugh,

00:15:42.820 but I knew the spiritual element was there.

00:15:44.800 And so once I got to the place

00:15:47.440 of like liking Buddhism and stuff like that,

00:15:49.440 I started taking them to kind of jump

00:15:52.220 into the spiritual aspect of it.

00:15:53.960 So I would take them.

00:15:55.060 And so I had nothing but good experiences.

00:15:58.000 You know, like I had nothing

00:15:59.700 but positive things happening

00:16:01.180 as far as I would have this like new,

00:16:03.420 profound wisdom would hit me.

00:16:05.220 I'd have this understanding of being connected,

00:16:07.820 being one, all of us loving each other.

00:16:10.460 It was like, that's the secret to life.

00:16:12.600 Love each other.

00:16:13.820 You know.

00:16:14.480 Is there any, was there any wisdom?

00:16:17.880 Perhaps that is the wisdom,

00:16:18.920 but is there anything you remember now

00:16:21.680 looking back on it of,

00:16:22.680 ah, yes, here was a bit of wisdom

00:16:24.300 that I gleaned on one of these trips

00:16:26.880 that I wouldn't have known otherwise.

00:16:29.860 Is there anything you can point to

00:16:30.780 and say, ah, that piece of wisdom?

00:16:33.020 Or no, was it just kind of a feeling of wisdom?

00:16:35.600 No, I think it was just more

00:16:36.980 of just a different mindset.

00:16:38.800 It was like just a different level of consciousness

00:16:40.640 that when I was in that place,

00:16:43.160 everything made sense.

00:16:44.900 So it's like, it was all,

00:16:46.720 and it's like the funny thing

00:16:48.140 about hallucinogens is like,

00:16:50.560 ah, a lot of the stuff you forget.

00:16:53.080 It's like you're here

00:16:53.920 and then it like leaves you.

00:16:55.300 And that's why people keep,

00:16:56.460 oh, I need to go do another retreat.

00:16:57.940 I need, because it's like,

00:16:58.940 I know it was great

00:17:00.040 and I know I learned a lot.

00:17:01.380 Yeah.

00:17:01.600 I just don't remember anything I learned.

00:17:02.860 Yeah, and you take some of it with you.

00:17:04.220 You'll take like one or two things

00:17:05.440 and then the rest is forgotten.

00:17:07.160 And so that's what it was.

00:17:08.680 It was like,

00:17:10.360 like an example was like,

00:17:12.760 I always would walk away

00:17:14.400 with this feeling of like,

00:17:15.080 I need to be a better person.

00:17:16.720 Like it would crush my ego

00:17:19.120 and crush my pride

00:17:20.660 in the moments you'd get,

00:17:22.240 you know what I mean?

00:17:22.780 And I'd be like,

00:17:23.740 man, I'm really a bad son.

00:17:25.460 I'm really, you know what I mean?

00:17:26.660 Like I'm a bad brother.

00:17:27.740 You know what I'm saying?

00:17:28.200 Like I would have these real like,

00:17:29.900 I guess, reflective moments.

00:17:32.160 And so because of that,

00:17:33.660 I'm thinking this must be a good thing

00:17:35.380 because it's bringing, I guess,

00:17:38.300 sobriety to my thinking in a way.

00:17:40.520 You know what I mean?

00:17:41.260 It's making me see things different.

00:17:43.960 Whereas other drugs,

00:17:45.720 they feed that selfishness.

00:17:47.480 It's like that heroin,

00:17:48.560 you don't care about anybody.

00:17:50.120 But on psychedelics,

00:17:51.120 I'd be like,

00:17:52.260 oh, I need to be more mindful

00:17:53.500 of other people.

00:17:54.640 Stuff like that.

00:17:54.820 Rod, I've been around people

00:17:55.880 who have been on Coke

00:17:56.960 and they're the most annoying people

00:17:59.000 on planet Earth.

00:18:00.020 They never shut up.

00:18:01.020 They're talking about

00:18:01.420 the most boring things ever.

00:18:03.160 For some reason,

00:18:03.840 they always are trying

00:18:04.320 to get you to do Coke.

00:18:05.480 I've been offered cocaine

00:18:06.600 so many times in my life

00:18:07.680 and I've never done it.

00:18:09.000 It's not something

00:18:09.740 that's interested me.

00:18:10.700 But I thought,

00:18:11.080 isn't this expensive?

00:18:12.140 Why are you trying to peddle

00:18:13.200 your expensive drug on me?

00:18:14.880 Why are you talking about

00:18:15.940 your work assignment

00:18:17.560 from last Thursday?

00:18:18.760 Nobody cares.

00:18:19.560 Just babbling.

00:18:20.740 Anyway,

00:18:21.480 I could see that distinction

00:18:24.120 between a drug

00:18:25.840 that kind of pulls you

00:18:27.140 out of yourself,

00:18:28.200 much as Buddhism does.

00:18:29.140 Buddhism is essentially

00:18:30.020 a denial of the self

00:18:31.900 and a drug that pulls you

00:18:33.840 really into yourself.

00:18:34.700 But so what you're describing,

00:18:35.940 other than your life

00:18:38.780 completely falling apart

00:18:39.980 while you're doing it,

00:18:41.120 other than that little detail,

00:18:43.340 it sounds like

00:18:44.200 the hallucinogens are fine.

00:18:47.220 Yeah, it seemed that way

00:18:48.420 and so I thought

00:18:48.940 they were the answer.

00:18:49.900 So my whole life goal was

00:18:51.700 I just need to trip,

00:18:53.800 like I wanted a perma trip.

00:18:54.820 That was my goal.

00:18:55.480 You hear these horror stories.

00:18:57.080 There's this story

00:18:57.840 that goes around.

00:18:58.360 Everyone says,

00:18:58.900 I know this guy

00:18:59.420 who thought he was

00:19:00.120 a cup of orange juice.

00:19:01.080 Yeah, right, right.

00:19:01.900 Like everyone's heard this story

00:19:03.000 and somehow it's like

00:19:03.700 their friend that they heard.

00:19:05.100 He thinks he's a banana

00:19:05.880 and he peels himself off.

00:19:06.840 Yeah, and all this stuff.

00:19:07.820 And I honestly at the time

00:19:09.780 I was jealous of that.

00:19:11.180 Like not that outcome

00:19:12.680 but the outcome of like

00:19:14.220 I could stay in this place

00:19:15.520 because I like, again,

00:19:17.300 I liked who I was

00:19:18.260 in that state.

00:19:19.460 And so it was always like

00:19:21.600 I just need to go trip

00:19:22.780 one more time,

00:19:24.220 collect the data

00:19:25.320 and then remember it

00:19:27.100 and stay there.

00:19:28.340 And so the other thing

00:19:30.240 was like,

00:19:30.920 so there was positive things

00:19:32.760 when I started getting into DMT

00:19:34.200 where I was having encounters

00:19:36.000 with light beings.

00:19:36.820 You know what I mean?

00:19:37.380 I'm having,

00:19:38.020 they're talking to me.

00:19:39.080 They're telling me

00:19:39.620 you need to stop doing heroin

00:19:40.660 or you're going to die.

00:19:41.640 They're guiding me

00:19:42.520 in a positive way.

00:19:44.320 But at the same time

00:19:45.600 I'm getting more into the occult.

00:19:47.360 I'm playing with Ouija boards

00:19:48.340 thinking it's a game.

00:19:49.600 I'm egging on

00:19:50.520 like the Ouija board move

00:19:51.880 and I'm telling it,

00:19:53.860 you know, show yourself.

00:19:55.120 You know, I'm egging it on

00:19:56.460 and I'm thinking it's all a joke.

00:19:57.380 I think all this stuff is a joke.

00:19:59.280 So you're playing with the Ouija board.

00:20:01.880 The Ouija board,

00:20:03.180 the idea is it's not your hands

00:20:04.520 moving the thing around

00:20:05.700 but it's demons basically

00:20:07.940 is moving it.

00:20:08.880 Right.

00:20:09.720 Did it work?

00:20:11.100 So it's funny

00:20:13.220 because my first encounter

00:20:14.060 with the Ouija board

00:20:14.640 was my mom used to have them

00:20:15.820 as a prop for Halloween.

00:20:17.980 No one played with it.

00:20:18.900 It was just when Halloween parties

00:20:20.140 and she'd just have

00:20:20.760 the Ouija board there

00:20:21.700 and it would just be a prop, right?

00:20:23.760 And I think one of the first times

00:20:26.060 I remember using it

00:20:27.760 and it wasn't like I did this

00:20:29.040 like hundreds of times.

00:20:30.000 It was maybe a handful of times,

00:20:31.940 70 times.

00:20:32.880 And so the first time it worked

00:20:34.240 was I was at a friend's house.

00:20:36.340 It was I think like

00:20:37.260 eighth grade summer or something,

00:20:38.760 ninth grade, eighth grade summer.

00:20:40.200 And there was a group of us

00:20:41.100 at this girl's house.

00:20:42.280 And so it was a group,

00:20:43.160 like maybe five or six

00:20:44.080 was playing it.

00:20:45.500 And it starts to move.

00:20:47.500 Now, you know,

00:20:48.180 everyone's first reaction is,

00:20:49.340 is it you?

00:20:49.760 Is it you?

00:20:50.240 Is it you?

00:20:51.140 Everyone's no, no.

00:20:52.440 I swear, no.

00:20:53.100 I promise, no.

00:20:54.300 Everyone's not.

00:20:54.960 I know it's not me.

00:20:56.260 The thing starts to move.

00:20:57.860 People start getting freaked out.

00:20:59.320 And me again,

00:21:00.180 I'm challenging this stuff.

00:21:01.540 I think it's a joke.

00:21:02.560 Yeah.

00:21:02.840 Because even though I think like,

00:21:03.860 oh, it really is moving

00:21:04.760 on its own at this point.

00:21:05.960 Now, but I'm like asking

00:21:07.080 stupid questions, you know,

00:21:08.420 like, oh, if you're real,

00:21:10.220 show your face, you know,

00:21:11.340 and stuff like that.

00:21:12.780 And so it starts to move.

00:21:14.940 And people will start

00:21:16.160 getting freaked out.

00:21:17.400 So it was like me

00:21:18.920 and I think it was like

00:21:20.520 two or three other girls

00:21:22.000 and another guy.

00:21:23.460 They said,

00:21:24.260 and they start to say,

00:21:25.660 one of them said,

00:21:26.340 you have to ask it

00:21:27.060 if you can leave.

00:21:28.260 Like, I heard, you know,

00:21:28.920 you can't just,

00:21:29.400 or I'll leave the door open.

00:21:30.680 You have to ask

00:21:31.120 if you're allowed to leave.

00:21:32.080 So they said, can I leave?

00:21:33.220 And it goes, yes.

00:21:34.020 Can I leave?

00:21:34.540 Yes.

00:21:35.380 And so next thing I know,

00:21:36.560 it's just me and this one girl.

00:21:38.500 And she says, can I leave?

00:21:40.180 And it says, no.

00:21:42.080 So she goes to try,

00:21:43.120 and she's like, can I leave?

00:21:44.500 No.

00:21:44.680 And it goes, no.

00:21:45.520 No.

00:21:46.240 And she just freaked out

00:21:47.320 and she just like,

00:21:47.960 she just like ran off.

00:21:49.740 And I was sitting there

00:21:50.460 and just laughing.

00:21:52.000 So it wasn't you moving it.

00:21:54.060 And so you could say,

00:21:55.420 well, maybe it's this girl

00:21:56.060 just wants to, you know,

00:21:57.120 spend more time with you.

00:21:58.000 So I'm going to move it

00:21:59.300 to say no.

00:22:00.200 But she gets very freaked out

00:22:01.820 and then she leaves.

00:22:02.460 No, it was genuine fear.

00:22:03.940 Like, she was like,

00:22:04.460 oh my gosh, just say no.

00:22:05.800 No.

00:22:06.720 She just like freaked out

00:22:08.060 and she left.

00:22:09.240 So that was like the first time

00:22:10.200 I saw something come from me.

00:22:12.620 And then years later,

00:22:13.800 I played it.

00:22:14.500 Back when I was getting

00:22:15.280 really into the DMT,

00:22:17.380 I just, I had one

00:22:18.280 and I was with one of my friends.

00:22:19.220 And this guy was, you know,

00:22:20.240 he was a very stoic kind of guy.

00:22:22.520 He wasn't a type of guy

00:22:23.820 to like get scared easily.

00:22:25.880 Like me and him used to,

00:22:26.980 you know, do all types

00:22:27.720 of crazy stuff together.

00:22:28.820 He wasn't the type of guy to,

00:22:31.000 for one, to play into it

00:22:32.800 and two, to get scared

00:22:34.240 about stuff like this.

00:22:35.700 It's just me and him,

00:22:36.640 you know, and we start playing.

00:22:38.620 And like I said,

00:22:39.100 I lived on that battlefield.

00:22:40.780 And so we start asking

00:22:41.780 a thing that starts moving.

00:22:43.340 I didn't even need to ask.

00:22:44.200 I knew it wasn't him.

00:22:45.000 He knew it wasn't me.

00:22:46.000 It starts moving.

00:22:47.100 So we're asking him

00:22:47.900 multiple questions.

00:22:49.880 And I start asking him,

00:22:51.440 like, well, when am I going to die?

00:22:52.820 And it gives me a number

00:22:54.900 and it says from an overdose.

00:22:56.420 It says 37 from an overdose.

00:22:58.340 And then he asked it.

00:23:00.640 And it gave him a number

00:23:01.740 and it gave him,

00:23:02.760 it said, I think,

00:23:03.480 like heart failure or something,

00:23:04.440 heart attack or something.

00:23:06.020 To this day,

00:23:07.200 that friend is scared.

00:23:08.540 He called me literally,

00:23:09.540 like last year.

00:23:10.200 He said, like he freaked out.

00:23:12.640 I mean, that, like,

00:23:13.660 and this is 2012, 2013.

00:23:17.080 I mean, this,

00:23:18.100 to this day,

00:23:19.040 he's still afraid of that.

00:23:20.120 He still thinks

00:23:20.620 that's going to happen.

00:23:21.440 Yeah, of course.

00:23:21.960 How old are you?

00:23:22.940 I'm 30.

00:23:24.340 Are you scared?

00:23:25.540 No, no,

00:23:26.300 because I think the blood

00:23:27.520 broke the curse.

00:23:28.940 But I think that it would have happened.

00:23:32.800 I think that that was the intention.

00:23:35.000 I think that was the plan

00:23:36.040 for my life, maybe, you know.

00:23:38.740 But he's, I mean,

00:23:39.420 he still thinks that,

00:23:41.100 like, he called me actually

00:23:42.220 like a year ago or something.

00:23:43.260 He said, dude,

00:23:43.660 I only have a year left

00:23:45.020 if that, you know,

00:23:45.940 like he thinks it's going to happen.

00:23:47.100 Right, because demons

00:23:48.500 demons can't read your mind.

00:23:49.780 Demons are not God.

00:23:51.280 Demons are not omniscient

00:23:52.560 or anything like that.

00:23:54.480 But they are pretty good

00:23:55.860 observers of behavior.

00:23:58.200 And so,

00:23:59.340 based on the behavior

00:24:01.660 that you were exhibiting

00:24:02.860 for a long time,

00:24:04.140 it may have been

00:24:04.780 a perfectly reasonable inference

00:24:06.920 to say,

00:24:07.380 oh, yeah,

00:24:07.620 you'll die at 37

00:24:08.640 from a drug overdose.

00:24:09.920 Yeah, yeah, 100%.

00:24:11.500 So why are you doing,

00:24:13.340 because people tell me this.

00:24:14.180 They say, oh, yeah,

00:24:14.920 I'd play with Ouija boards

00:24:15.880 and crystals

00:24:16.480 and weird astrology stuff.

00:24:18.060 But it was all just

00:24:18.940 kind of silly games.

00:24:20.120 And I think,

00:24:20.580 when I want to play

00:24:21.080 a silly game,

00:24:21.820 I play Monopoly.

00:24:23.040 What is it about,

00:24:25.860 what drew you to the Ouija board

00:24:27.420 and all the occult stuff?

00:24:28.920 I think just us as humans,

00:24:30.400 we're drawn to the taboo.

00:24:31.920 You know,

00:24:32.260 I think it's part of our nature.

00:24:33.540 We like that mystery.

00:24:34.740 That's why people

00:24:35.220 like horror movies and stuff.

00:24:36.480 And it's like.

00:24:37.460 And your inhibitions

00:24:38.240 are already a little bit weakened

00:24:39.300 because you're doing

00:24:39.840 all this other great stuff.

00:24:40.460 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:41.000 I was already,

00:24:41.520 I liked that,

00:24:42.320 that like kind of that,

00:24:43.780 I liked the demonic type of stuff.

00:24:45.320 I was drawn to the dark stuff.

00:24:46.940 Not, you know,

00:24:48.020 not in the sense of,

00:24:49.360 hey, you know,

00:24:49.780 devil with pitchfork and horns.

00:24:51.880 But the stuff

00:24:53.100 that made people uncomfortable.

00:24:54.340 I wanted to go into the water

00:24:55.500 that everyone else was like,

00:24:56.620 I don't know,

00:24:56.900 that's a little crazy.

00:24:57.820 The secret.

00:24:58.600 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:59.420 And so that was,

00:25:01.020 it was just something

00:25:01.700 I did with like friends.

00:25:02.680 I'd play the Ouija board.

00:25:03.660 I started doing psychics.

00:25:04.960 I started, you know,

00:25:05.520 I went into all that

00:25:06.280 because Buddhism

00:25:07.120 is already kind of branched.

00:25:09.360 That's a,

00:25:09.720 I would say

00:25:10.160 those are branches of that.

00:25:11.300 It's like that whole world

00:25:12.400 kind of comes together.

00:25:14.080 It's the same thinking.

00:25:15.380 And so I started getting

00:25:17.040 more into the occult.

00:25:18.540 And so what was crazy

00:25:19.420 is when I was

00:25:20.480 about 20,

00:25:23.020 2012,

00:25:23.720 I was doing a lot of psychedelics.

00:25:26.040 I was doing a lot of heroin.

00:25:27.480 I was in probably

00:25:28.220 the worst place I had ever,

00:25:30.160 one of the darkest places

00:25:31.620 in my life.

00:25:32.160 And so I had this moment

00:25:34.400 of like,

00:25:35.000 I'm having encounters

00:25:35.960 with light beings.

00:25:37.340 They're,

00:25:37.640 why am I not happy?

00:25:40.240 Why am I still stuck?

00:25:41.700 I can't stop doing heroin.

00:25:43.240 I want to kill myself.

00:25:44.400 And I'm having,

00:25:45.220 I'm thinking I'm enlightened.

00:25:46.580 I would have a trip

00:25:48.100 and for a week

00:25:49.300 I'd be the most enlightened.

00:25:50.260 I think I was Gandhi

00:25:51.380 for the next week.

00:25:52.360 I'm Gandhi, everybody.

00:25:53.340 And then a week later,

00:25:54.480 I want to kill myself.

00:25:55.460 And so I'm starting

00:25:56.380 to connect these dots.

00:25:57.360 Like this doesn't make sense.

00:25:58.700 Like why,

00:26:00.600 why am I having

00:26:01.500 these great experiences

00:26:02.620 but I can't ever bring back

00:26:05.380 the fruit

00:26:06.220 or what I thought was fruit.

00:26:07.600 I can't ever bring it

00:26:08.440 back to my life

00:26:09.160 and I can't find the power

00:26:10.620 to overcome any of this,

00:26:12.120 my obstacles.

00:26:12.980 What did you think

00:26:13.660 the light beings were?

00:26:14.920 Did you think it was

00:26:15.780 a figment of your imagination,

00:26:17.480 you know,

00:26:17.660 just a chemical product

00:26:18.620 of the,

00:26:19.180 of the drugs

00:26:20.040 or did you think

00:26:20.740 they were angels

00:26:21.760 or something?

00:26:22.680 So with,

00:26:23.380 with acid and mushrooms,

00:26:25.140 you don't typically,

00:26:27.120 at least I never had visuals

00:26:28.520 where like,

00:26:29.320 oh,

00:26:29.460 I'm seeing this thing

00:26:30.720 just pop up.

00:26:31.800 It's more like

00:26:32.680 the walls will melt.

00:26:34.040 Everything's a lot

00:26:34.640 more vibrant.

00:26:37.080 But you know,

00:26:37.900 you might,

00:26:38.200 you could see something

00:26:38.900 and it starts to look

00:26:39.520 like something else.

00:26:40.320 I had a time

00:26:40.820 where like my dog

00:26:41.440 turned,

00:26:41.880 dog turned green

00:26:43.020 and his tongue was longer.

00:26:44.200 Stuff like that,

00:26:44.880 right?

00:26:45.120 Like,

00:26:45.280 but like,

00:26:45.620 you know,

00:26:46.060 like,

00:26:46.220 oh,

00:26:46.320 this is reality.

00:26:46.860 Still a dog.

00:26:47.680 Yeah,

00:26:47.940 yeah,

00:26:48.120 yeah.

00:26:48.360 Like,

00:26:48.600 it's like,

00:26:49.000 I knew it was reality.

00:26:50.480 With the DMT,

00:26:52.260 this was like full on,

00:26:53.580 like,

00:26:53.920 you're seeing a whole world

00:26:55.440 just crack open

00:26:56.160 in front of you.

00:26:56.700 It's like going to Mars

00:26:58.200 or something,

00:26:58.780 right?

00:26:59.000 Like right now,

00:26:59.580 this room,

00:27:00.060 you know,

00:27:00.300 just turns into,

00:27:01.060 you know,

00:27:01.300 another realm,

00:27:01.940 right?

00:27:02.140 And it's like,

00:27:02.980 so I'm experienced.

00:27:03.720 So I knew I was hallucinating,

00:27:05.560 but I also knew 100%

00:27:07.060 this stuff is real.

00:27:07.900 Whatever is in my room

00:27:09.100 right now,

00:27:09.920 these things are real

00:27:10.660 and they would be light beings.

00:27:13.180 So they're a human shape,

00:27:15.440 but they are like,

00:27:16.620 they were colors.

00:27:17.600 One was purple,

00:27:18.760 one was orange,

00:27:19.500 one was red.

00:27:20.100 It's like a flaming light,

00:27:22.000 but in a human shape body,

00:27:23.580 right?

00:27:23.800 So it's like a silhouette.

00:27:24.520 And then the thing about them

00:27:26.820 is that they would always

00:27:28.420 speak peace.

00:27:30.200 Like,

00:27:30.920 we're here to help you.

00:27:32.300 We're,

00:27:32.520 you know,

00:27:32.720 calm down,

00:27:33.180 relax.

00:27:33.620 We have your,

00:27:34.100 you know,

00:27:34.380 we have your back.

00:27:35.360 And the thing that was interesting,

00:27:36.980 and I didn't pick it up at the time,

00:27:38.620 but looking back,

00:27:40.100 it literally was like,

00:27:41.260 you know,

00:27:41.480 when you're swimming in the ocean

00:27:42.380 and you feel like that

00:27:43.460 there's something maybe under you,

00:27:45.180 it's like,

00:27:45.480 you're enjoying the waves.

00:27:46.260 It's fun,

00:27:46.720 but you kind of like,

00:27:47.480 oh,

00:27:47.600 there might be a shark.

00:27:48.860 That's how it felt.

00:27:49.640 It's like,

00:27:50.480 I kind of don't trust you guys,

00:27:52.640 but I don't have a reason not to.

00:27:54.220 You look pretty.

00:27:55.320 You're giving me good information.

00:27:57.720 You're clothed as an angel of light,

00:27:59.420 you might say.

00:28:00.160 Yeah,

00:28:00.180 yeah.

00:28:00.580 And so that's,

00:28:01.320 that's kind of where it was at,

00:28:03.060 but it just never.

00:28:05.500 And they gave you advice

00:28:07.140 in the sense that calm down,

00:28:08.560 it's okay.

00:28:10.120 What would they tell you?

00:28:11.260 Well,

00:28:11.420 they would,

00:28:11.700 so like the one DMT experience I had,

00:28:14.180 I had these three beings come in my room.

00:28:15.860 I freaked out.

00:28:16.520 I started to try to get up off the bed,

00:28:18.480 but there was a bigger one.

00:28:19.860 Like,

00:28:19.960 so if I was laying down,

00:28:21.820 it was like,

00:28:22.120 his legs were 10 feet tall.

00:28:23.880 So the other ones I see in front of me,

00:28:25.220 dancing around and swirling.

00:28:26.860 This one was 10,

00:28:27.640 like 10 feet tall legs.

00:28:29.040 I couldn't even see the top of the being,

00:28:30.980 but his hands started going over me.

00:28:32.880 And if you've seen Reiki,

00:28:33.840 they go like this.

00:28:34.620 Like they do,

00:28:35.000 he was doing Reiki hand movements over me.

00:28:37.240 And he was telling me telepathically,

00:28:39.900 relax,

00:28:41.240 we're here to help you.

00:28:42.460 Right.

00:28:43.140 And then a few minutes later,

00:28:44.880 my door opened up by itself and another one came in and it was dragging my body.

00:28:50.180 So I'm in my body.

00:28:51.080 I'm watching this.

00:28:52.180 My body gets dragged in the room and they told me,

00:28:54.620 if you don't stop doing heroin,

00:28:56.200 this is you.

00:28:57.680 And,

00:28:57.840 and cause I used to get high in my bathroom.

00:28:59.340 And so I knew they were saying like,

00:29:01.160 you're going to overdose in this bathroom if you don't stop.

00:29:03.500 And so that's what I mean.

00:29:04.740 Like they would tell me like,

00:29:05.580 you need to be a better person.

00:29:07.180 So what is that?

00:29:08.920 Is it,

00:29:09.600 seems to me there's four options.

00:29:12.760 It could be your subconscious.

00:29:15.520 You,

00:29:15.680 you knew even as you're doing a bunch of dope,

00:29:18.560 you know that this is bad for you and it's going to kill you.

00:29:20.740 So it's your subconscious telling you that like in a dream,

00:29:23.680 say,

00:29:24.540 or they're demons that clothed as angels of light as it says in the Bible,

00:29:29.060 or they're angels,

00:29:30.800 or they're just some weird chemical hallucination,

00:29:36.800 totally random,

00:29:37.720 totally unaccounted for,

00:29:38.700 totally meaningless,

00:29:39.620 which to me seems like the most ridiculous possibility of all.

00:29:43.460 So which of the three is it?

00:29:46.120 So I think the interesting thing is that if you talk to anybody that did psychedelics,

00:29:51.720 I think everybody would agree they're all real.

00:29:54.260 It's,

00:29:54.340 it's like,

00:29:54.860 it's not just your subconscious.

00:29:56.300 It's not your imagination,

00:29:57.600 your subconscious.

00:29:58.480 I think there's times people think like your subconscious can create stuff that isn't really there.

00:30:04.380 But those experiences are 100%.

00:30:06.380 It's another dimension.

00:30:07.740 It is the,

00:30:08.500 it's the veil is removed.

00:30:10.080 Yeah.

00:30:10.340 And I think that's what gets manipulated because of our ignorance,

00:30:13.520 you know?

00:30:13.800 And so,

00:30:16.160 and I'll give you an example.

00:30:17.660 The first time I did the mushrooms,

00:30:19.400 I started to climb up a radio tower and then I got about 20 feet up and I saw,

00:30:23.940 oh,

00:30:24.080 what am I doing?

00:30:24.940 I shouldn't be climbing a tower right now.

00:30:26.500 I started to climb down.

00:30:27.740 That inflicted a thought of fear where I started for some reason,

00:30:31.900 because I was in the woods,

00:30:32.480 I started thinking about the headless horseman.

00:30:34.380 And I'm like,

00:30:35.000 oh,

00:30:35.080 the headless horseman is going to get me.

00:30:36.460 I started to hear,

00:30:37.400 I started to hear horse,

00:30:39.980 horses come.

00:30:41.100 Right?

00:30:41.260 So that was a example of me thinking something.

00:30:44.620 Right.

00:30:45.000 And then it kind of,

00:30:45.980 but I knew,

00:30:47.080 oh,

00:30:47.300 I'm just tripping.

00:30:48.240 Yeah.

00:30:48.600 You know,

00:30:49.120 like,

00:30:49.380 oh,

00:30:49.560 this isn't real right now.

00:30:50.540 I went back in the car and I was fine.

00:30:51.900 Because you hear that expression a lot.

00:30:53.100 You're like,

00:30:53.340 oh man,

00:30:53.660 that guy's tripping over there.

00:30:54.600 Yeah.

00:30:55.460 Obviously where it comes from is you literally were tripping and you were imagining something

00:30:58.540 that wasn't there.

00:30:59.040 Yeah.

00:30:59.220 And I was imagining it and I knew I was.

00:31:01.040 But this was different than what was going on in your room.

00:31:02.940 Way different.

00:31:03.460 But so then my,

00:31:04.020 but my question is,

00:31:05.180 it sounds like they're demons.

00:31:07.860 Yeah.

00:31:08.180 But they're saying,

00:31:10.060 hey,

00:31:10.120 don't kill yourself,

00:31:10.980 get off the heroin,

00:31:11.680 which seems like good advice.

00:31:12.940 So then it seems like they're angels.

00:31:15.000 Right.

00:31:15.620 Right.

00:31:15.840 So what is it?

00:31:16.400 What are,

00:31:16.560 that's the,

00:31:17.040 that's the deception in it.

00:31:18.360 And so I think Romans six talks about,

00:31:20.560 it says,

00:31:21.200 it says you're either a slave to sin or to righteousness.

00:31:23.880 It says,

00:31:24.360 look at the fruit of what's coming from this.

00:31:26.580 And so I think that a lot of times we have to look like,

00:31:29.400 what is the fruit that is coming from this?

00:31:30.980 Like the,

00:31:31.820 the fruit that was coming from this was not good in any sense for me.

00:31:36.340 Even when they say get off the heroin,

00:31:38.080 that's not good.

00:31:38.800 Well,

00:31:38.980 I guess because it didn't work.

00:31:39.800 Because it didn't,

00:31:40.460 there was no power there.

00:31:41.440 So it was,

00:31:41.920 it's kind of like,

00:31:42.800 and I always use this illustration of if I'm trying to kidnap somebody,

00:31:47.360 I'm not going to say,

00:31:48.620 you know,

00:31:48.920 Hey,

00:31:49.060 I'm here to kill you kid.

00:31:50.080 Like come in the car.

00:31:51.360 It's like,

00:31:52.320 here's some candy.

00:31:53.680 Hey,

00:31:53.940 I want to get you down there.

00:31:55.420 Here's a hundred dollars.

00:31:56.260 So they don't,

00:31:57.740 if you look at like the state of Satan being the god of this world and a fallen state,

00:32:03.500 fallen angels having,

00:32:04.900 you know,

00:32:05.640 secret knowledge and,

00:32:07.420 you know what I mean?

00:32:08.040 Principalities and powers.

00:32:09.040 Yeah.

00:32:09.260 And all this stuff,

00:32:10.940 they're not dumb,

00:32:12.300 you know?

00:32:12.740 And so they can give you stuff that looks good,

00:32:15.840 you know?

00:32:16.960 Right.

00:32:17.720 Yeah.

00:32:18.160 Right.

00:32:18.480 And we,

00:32:19.620 I guess our imagination is just limited.

00:32:21.720 We think,

00:32:22.120 oh,

00:32:22.280 those stupid little devils.

00:32:23.300 We're so much smarter than them.

00:32:24.420 Yeah.

00:32:24.600 No,

00:32:26.260 they're pure intelligence.

00:32:27.680 You know,

00:32:27.960 they're probably,

00:32:28.520 probably more intelligent than we are.

00:32:30.680 Oh yeah.

00:32:31.020 In many ways.

00:32:32.160 So you're in the room,

00:32:34.320 you're surrounded by demons,

00:32:37.020 basically.

00:32:37.460 And,

00:32:38.000 and you're saying they're real.

00:32:39.320 You're,

00:32:39.540 you're aware of the,

00:32:41.800 it's not just something you're imagining.

00:32:43.720 And you see yourself,

00:32:45.920 you see this vision of yourself dying from heroin.

00:32:48.220 And okay,

00:32:48.980 then you wake up from the trip.

00:32:52.460 So,

00:32:53.100 so,

00:32:53.620 okay.

00:32:53.800 So I wouldn't,

00:32:55.040 but this,

00:32:55.600 this is before I haven't kind of got all that.

00:32:58.700 This is,

00:32:59.180 this is when I'm around 20 years old,

00:33:00.560 I think around 2012,

00:33:01.460 when this happened,

00:33:03.060 I see this and I'm,

00:33:04.440 I think that they are angels at the time.

00:33:06.860 They were light.

00:33:07.740 They seemed loving.

00:33:08.600 They seem to have my interests at heart.

00:33:10.420 So I did think they were angels at the time.

00:33:13.840 And afterwards I was like rocked for,

00:33:16.980 I mean,

00:33:17.180 that,

00:33:17.300 that will really mess up your,

00:33:18.600 your view of life for a while.

00:33:19.960 Like I,

00:33:20.300 I didn't even know how to look at life the same anymore after that.

00:33:22.720 And,

00:33:23.080 and,

00:33:24.580 and I was then,

00:33:25.900 but then it's like,

00:33:26.380 Oh,

00:33:26.460 I got to do it again.

00:33:27.080 I got to do it.

00:33:27.540 I got to,

00:33:27.960 I got to meet them again,

00:33:29.000 whatever it takes.

00:33:29.820 Right.

00:33:30.100 Like,

00:33:30.440 and give me some more poison so I can meet those angels.

00:33:33.540 Yeah.

00:33:34.060 And,

00:33:34.460 and you know,

00:33:35.180 and,

00:33:35.480 but here's what happened.

00:33:38.160 So about a week or two after that,

00:33:43.200 I'm at my house.

00:33:44.560 I'm sitting there.

00:33:45.480 I'm depressed because I was going through a breakup and I'm not even getting the whole story,

00:33:50.200 but long story short,

00:33:51.720 I'm sitting there one night.

00:33:52.660 My best friend had died the year before in a car accident on his way to meet me.

00:33:56.860 So I felt bad about that.

00:33:58.220 I was dealing with guilt about that.

00:34:00.580 Um,

00:34:01.780 my life is falling apart in front of my face.

00:34:03.680 I just had a baby.

00:34:04.480 That's probably a year and a half old at the time.

00:34:06.920 And I was like,

00:34:08.020 everything had was so hopeless.

00:34:09.780 And I'm sitting here doing it,

00:34:11.160 spinning my wheels,

00:34:12.060 trying to like connect to these,

00:34:13.800 these spirits,

00:34:14.620 spirit realm and go to the psychic,

00:34:16.360 go to did getting Reiki done,

00:34:18.020 doing all this stuff that I could think of everything I think of.

00:34:21.020 And I remember one night I just sat there and I had kind of like surpassed,

00:34:25.060 you know what I mean?

00:34:26.060 Depression or anger,

00:34:27.120 any emotion,

00:34:28.080 you know,

00:34:28.700 I don't know if it's apathy or what.

00:34:30.560 So you were,

00:34:30.940 you were just,

00:34:31.820 uh,

00:34:32.680 despairing at that point.

00:34:34.200 You weren't even angry.

00:34:35.240 You just said,

00:34:35.720 there's no hope.

00:34:36.180 It was just,

00:34:36.720 yeah,

00:34:36.940 like that,

00:34:37.300 that Pink Floyd song,

00:34:38.460 Comfortably Numb.

00:34:39.120 It's like,

00:34:39.460 it just,

00:34:39.940 just nothing just,

00:34:41.480 you know?

00:34:41.820 And,

00:34:42.040 and so I,

00:34:42.720 I basically said,

00:34:44.080 yeah,

00:34:44.280 I think I'm done.

00:34:44.920 I was sitting on my back porch.

00:34:46.040 I was drinking and I said,

00:34:48.340 uh,

00:34:48.740 I'm done.

00:34:49.900 I said,

00:34:50.300 yeah,

00:34:50.540 I'm not doing this anymore.

00:34:51.760 I walked in my house and I got a microphone cord and then I walked back

00:34:57.200 outside and I had,

00:34:58.040 I lived on a battle.

00:34:58.840 Oh,

00:34:58.920 you mean I'm done.

00:34:59.580 Like I'm done.

00:35:00.220 Yeah.

00:35:00.440 I was dead.

00:35:00.940 Seriously.

00:35:01.200 Like I'm just done.

00:35:02.020 I don't,

00:35:02.400 I don't want to be here anymore.

00:35:03.880 And I,

00:35:04.500 cause you have to think that this,

00:35:05.960 I mean,

00:35:06.180 for years,

00:35:07.040 this was always in the background,

00:35:08.300 but you don't ever think you'll actually do it.

00:35:10.540 It's kind of like,

00:35:11.320 I want to,

00:35:11.900 but I wouldn't actually go through with that.

00:35:14.380 Um,

00:35:14.800 you know what I mean?

00:35:15.220 I was cutting myself.

00:35:16.220 I was,

00:35:16.480 I hated it.

00:35:17.140 I hated life.

00:35:17.740 I hated myself.

00:35:18.380 And I didn't even know why I just,

00:35:20.100 I just felt like I was just chained to something that I didn't want to be a

00:35:23.500 part of.

00:35:24.520 And it's like,

00:35:25.260 you're,

00:35:25.540 you're,

00:35:25.840 you're sitting in the passenger seat of your car and someone else is

00:35:28.700 driving.

00:35:29.060 That's how it felt for the last,

00:35:30.580 you know,

00:35:30.800 or the previous few years or whatever.

00:35:32.580 Um,

00:35:34.500 and so I said,

00:35:35.500 I'm done.

00:35:36.140 And,

00:35:36.400 and so there,

00:35:37.040 I lived on a battlefield,

00:35:38.200 like a actual civil war battlefield.

00:35:39.780 Right.

00:35:40.420 And so that added a whole nother element to this like spooky stuff going on.

00:35:43.680 But nature is,

00:35:44.580 but art unknown to the,

00:35:45.980 yeah.

00:35:46.800 Yeah.

00:35:47.460 Um,

00:35:48.360 and there was,

00:35:49.080 so there's the,

00:35:49.680 you know,

00:35:49.900 the,

00:35:50.120 the,

00:35:50.440 the fences,

00:35:51.340 it's like civil war,

00:35:52.200 but they tied up.

00:35:53.100 So I,

00:35:53.860 where I lived,

00:35:54.280 it was like a cliff.

00:35:55.480 It was my house and it was,

00:35:56.780 it was a cliff.

00:35:57.360 And then it was like a,

00:35:58.240 uh,

00:35:58.760 uh,

00:35:59.040 there was a little small stream.

00:36:00.840 And then it was like a little Creek that broke off.

00:36:03.300 And it was like a 20 foot something dry,

00:36:04.900 like 20,

00:36:05.280 22 feet drop and cliff.

00:36:06.720 And then like two feet of water.

00:36:08.360 And I,

00:36:08.900 so I tied it to the,

00:36:10.040 the,

00:36:10.300 the civil war posts and I tied around my neck and I walked to the end.

00:36:13.800 I said,

00:36:14.180 I'm done.

00:36:15.100 And I just stepped off.

00:36:16.600 And,

00:36:17.000 uh,

00:36:17.280 the second that I felt the cord,

00:36:19.480 it,

00:36:19.700 it tightened,

00:36:20.280 it pulled and it caught,

00:36:21.300 I want,

00:36:21.600 as soon as it caught me,

00:36:23.480 I was like,

00:36:23.920 Oh no,

00:36:24.280 what'd you do?

00:36:24.900 Like,

00:36:25.100 this was a,

00:36:25.460 this was a mistake.

00:36:26.400 What are you thinking?

00:36:27.400 But it was too late.

00:36:28.540 I like,

00:36:28.960 I knew I really,

00:36:30.520 like did it.

00:36:31.400 And so next thing I know,

00:36:33.500 um,

00:36:33.940 uh,

00:36:34.280 it feels like in a dream state,

00:36:35.500 you know,

00:36:35.700 when you're in a dream and you're aware,

00:36:36.900 like a,

00:36:37.200 like a lucid dream,

00:36:38.260 it felt like that.

00:36:39.140 But in the dream,

00:36:39.900 I had no memory of what I did.

00:36:41.760 So in the dream,

00:36:42.500 I'm just wondering like,

00:36:43.320 why can't I breathe?

00:36:44.540 Why am I cold?

00:36:45.920 Why do I feel stuck?

00:36:47.260 I didn't know what,

00:36:47.940 had no idea what was going on.

00:36:50.060 And so in the dream,

00:36:51.400 I all of a sudden,

00:36:52.200 well,

00:36:52.440 in that state,

00:36:53.360 I see,

00:36:54.240 um,

00:36:54.680 this little light out of the corner of my eye and start coming towards me.

00:36:56.960 It wasn't a big light.

00:36:57.600 It was just like a little light that grabbed your attention from this,

00:37:00.480 this black void.

00:37:01.500 It started coming closer to me.

00:37:03.180 And then next thing I know,

00:37:04.460 I felt something loose my neck,

00:37:06.360 still not knowing what it was just,

00:37:08.560 Oh,

00:37:08.620 I can breathe again in this dream.

00:37:09.780 And I grabbed and I got up and next thing I know,

00:37:12.680 I'm popping my head up out the water.

00:37:15.200 And it all hits me like what just happened.

00:37:19.360 So I'm sitting there like,

00:37:21.000 I mean,

00:37:21.220 I'm crawling up this hill.

00:37:22.180 I'm soaking wet.

00:37:22.680 It's the middle of like December,

00:37:23.640 middle of winter time.

00:37:25.060 I'm freezing cold.

00:37:26.040 I'm shivering.

00:37:26.500 I'm crying.

00:37:27.100 Cause I realized what I did.

00:37:28.380 I,

00:37:28.500 you know what I mean?

00:37:29.000 I go in the,

00:37:29.600 in my house,

00:37:30.500 I have bruises all over my neck and my neck's all purple.

00:37:33.880 And I mean,

00:37:34.480 I was,

00:37:34.740 I was a mess.

00:37:35.380 And,

00:37:35.900 but the thing that happened at that night is that I knew that there was

00:37:39.840 something out there after that,

00:37:41.760 like something saved me.

00:37:43.140 And the craziest part was that I said,

00:37:44.940 Oh,

00:37:45.100 it came untied from the fence.

00:37:46.520 It couldn't just be the cord snapped.

00:37:47.840 It snapped.

00:37:48.320 Right.

00:37:48.560 That's what I'm thinking.

00:37:49.300 I go back out there.

00:37:50.500 It's still tied to the fence.

00:37:52.400 So it was a microphone cord.

00:37:54.280 It stretched maybe double the length,

00:37:56.040 I guess,

00:37:56.580 because of the,

00:37:57.560 the,

00:37:57.940 you know what it was.

00:37:58.680 It stretched,

00:37:59.580 whatever it was,

00:38:01.300 I knew something saved me.

00:38:03.220 Like it didn't snap.

00:38:04.080 It didn't unfurl.

00:38:05.180 No.

00:38:06.520 So it,

00:38:07.140 it just,

00:38:07.740 it just stretched and was attached to both ends.

00:38:10.580 But even then I was,

00:38:12.120 I could,

00:38:12.580 I was unconscious.

00:38:13.580 I couldn't,

00:38:14.240 uh,

00:38:14.560 had it,

00:38:14.860 did it,

00:38:15.240 did it,

00:38:15.500 had it snapped where it was tied around your neck?

00:38:17.500 No,

00:38:17.840 it was,

00:38:18.060 it was,

00:38:18.300 it was,

00:38:18.760 it was,

00:38:19.240 it was just loosed.

00:38:20.300 Like I'm,

00:38:20.800 I'm unconscious just knowing that I couldn't breathe.

00:38:24.500 I didn't know there was something on my neck.

00:38:25.880 I'm,

00:38:26.080 I was,

00:38:26.420 I was unconscious.

00:38:27.200 I went out.

00:38:28.240 Um,

00:38:28.720 I saw a light coming towards me and when it got like maybe like 10 feet away from

00:38:33.380 me,

00:38:33.580 it just,

00:38:35.080 I just felt it loose.

00:38:36.040 Just,

00:38:36.640 and so I,

00:38:38.120 and then I popped up.

00:38:39.180 And so then it hit me at that moment.

00:38:42.480 I'm here for a reason.

00:38:44.820 Um,

00:38:45.420 something cares about me and something is,

00:38:47.140 is aware of me.

00:38:47.880 And I have no idea what,

00:38:50.040 uh,

00:38:50.320 or,

00:38:50.600 or why,

00:38:51.740 but now I got to figure out what it is,

00:38:54.620 you know?

00:38:55.100 And,

00:38:55.480 um,

00:38:56.160 and I wish I could say like,

00:38:57.480 oh,

00:38:57.620 it's God and,

00:38:58.320 and everything changed at that moment.

00:38:59.800 It didn't.

00:39:00.320 It got way darker.

00:39:01.180 It got way worse.

00:39:02.440 Um,

00:39:02.800 because there was no,

00:39:03.960 there was no language.

00:39:05.140 There was no understanding of what it was.

00:39:07.240 It was just,

00:39:08.040 I'll never do that again.

00:39:09.340 That was really,

00:39:10.000 you know,

00:39:10.260 that was about all that I had at that time.

00:39:12.540 And so it was,

00:39:13.440 I'll never do that again,

00:39:14.200 but I'll do all the other stuff I've been doing.

00:39:16.080 Yeah,

00:39:16.780 basically,

00:39:17.480 but not,

00:39:17.860 not wanting to,

00:39:18.800 you know?

00:39:19.060 And that's,

00:39:19.520 that's the worst thing about,

00:39:20.840 you know,

00:39:21.360 drugs.

00:39:21.740 It's like,

00:39:22.900 it starts out fun and then you're a slave to it and you can't stop.

00:39:27.100 And it's the most miserable existence because you got,

00:39:29.320 you know,

00:39:29.520 everyone's telling you just stop,

00:39:31.420 look at what it's doing here.

00:39:32.460 Look,

00:39:32.880 and you can't.

00:39:33.700 Well,

00:39:33.900 you,

00:39:34.020 you make this great point,

00:39:35.800 uh,

00:39:36.300 which you're not the first to say it,

00:39:37.620 which is that you're either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness.

00:39:40.140 And the way that people talk about freedom and liberty today,

00:39:44.680 even on the right,

00:39:45.780 certainly on the left,

00:39:46.400 but even on the right is really shallow and incoherent because they'll say is

00:39:51.760 freedom is just being able to do as much heroin as you want.

00:39:55.620 That's freedom,

00:39:56.200 baby.

00:39:56.460 You know,

00:39:57.340 if you want to do heroin,

00:39:58.340 you have the right to go do whatever you want.

00:40:00.400 And as you have just attested,

00:40:04.800 no,

00:40:05.560 you become a slave to it and you become a slave to it very,

00:40:08.060 very quickly.

00:40:08.740 And it doesn't,

00:40:09.460 that's not an expression of freedom that robs you of your freedom.

00:40:12.420 You know,

00:40:12.600 you're going to,

00:40:12.960 you're going to be a slave to sin or righteousness.

00:40:16.520 You're going to be a slave to vice or virtue.

00:40:18.880 And,

00:40:19.100 uh,

00:40:19.320 so the question is,

00:40:20.640 then what is freedom?

00:40:22.820 What,

00:40:23.040 and freedom is obviously when you,

00:40:25.560 uh,

00:40:26.340 accept the constraints of virtue and goodness.

00:40:30.880 And then,

00:40:31.280 and Christ says,

00:40:31.940 you know,

00:40:32.320 my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

00:40:34.660 Follow me,

00:40:35.660 do what I say,

00:40:36.880 but don't worry.

00:40:37.600 My yoke is easy and my burden is light.

00:40:39.460 And the yoke and the burden of heroin and all the,

00:40:42.900 and all the,

00:40:43.360 all the light demons,

00:40:45.180 uh,

00:40:45.980 that's not light.

00:40:47.000 That's not light at all.

00:40:48.320 Yeah.

00:40:48.840 So you,

00:40:49.480 but you keep going into it because you say,

00:40:52.680 okay,

00:40:52.740 I'm not going to kill myself anymore,

00:40:53.820 but I'm still addicted to drugs.

00:40:55.340 I still have been practicing.

00:40:56.960 I've been in cultivating these habits for 20 years or whatever,

00:41:01.460 15 years.

00:41:02.060 And so,

00:41:02.420 uh,

00:41:03.180 you're not just going to switch that off overnight or it would be very difficult to do

00:41:06.320 that.

00:41:06.780 Yeah.

00:41:07.520 So then what happens?

00:41:08.980 So basically I go down this road for,

00:41:11.700 you know,

00:41:12.380 years basically.

00:41:13.580 Um,

00:41:14.220 and,

00:41:14.700 uh,

00:41:14.840 I'll go to basically the next couple of years.

00:41:17.200 I'm just,

00:41:17.600 I'm getting worse in my heroin addiction.

00:41:19.320 It's becoming,

00:41:20.020 you know,

00:41:20.780 it,

00:41:21.080 it started out the first few years.

00:41:22.660 It was kind of like,

00:41:23.840 uh,

00:41:24.200 the drugs are always there.

00:41:25.420 I had the jobs that would somewhat support it.

00:41:28.000 So it was like comfortable.

00:41:29.220 Yeah.

00:41:29.980 Then it got real uncomfortable.

00:41:31.180 Then it got miserable,

00:41:32.460 you know,

00:41:32.820 where I'm always sick.

00:41:33.620 I'm always,

00:41:34.340 my whole day is like chasing that.

00:41:37.740 And,

00:41:37.980 um,

00:41:38.640 so when I was 23,

00:41:40.900 2014,

00:41:41.620 uh,

00:41:43.580 I was going to school for massage therapy.

00:41:45.800 I don't know how that was a miracle in itself that I,

00:41:47.980 I don't know how I graduated the school,

00:41:49.540 but I get through massage therapy school somehow.

00:41:51.820 And,

00:41:52.220 uh,

00:41:52.440 three days before I like get my graduation certificate,

00:41:55.480 I already had graduated,

00:41:56.780 but I'm waiting for the certificate or whatever.

00:41:58.860 Um,

00:41:59.620 I basically get hit with a distribution of heroin.

00:42:01.840 There was some girl that I was,

00:42:03.400 uh,

00:42:04.020 you know,

00:42:04.280 kind of friends with.

00:42:05.600 I had middleman something to her.

00:42:08.440 She overdosed.

00:42:09.640 I call the police or the ambulance to resuscitate her.

00:42:13.600 And she,

00:42:14.260 you know,

00:42:14.440 she ends up surviving,

00:42:15.220 but she tells me,

00:42:16.380 so I get charged with a distribution of heroin.

00:42:18.260 At that point,

00:42:18.960 I had,

00:42:19.420 you know,

00:42:19.580 done a little two weeks,

00:42:20.520 30 days in jail.

00:42:21.780 Well,

00:42:21.960 this was like,

00:42:22.720 this was a big serious offense,

00:42:25.080 right?

00:42:25.300 They're trying to tell me she's dead and all this stuff.

00:42:27.860 Tell me,

00:42:28.060 I'm looking at a murder charge,

00:42:29.040 all this crazy stuff.

00:42:30.040 I knew,

00:42:30.460 I knew they were just saying that,

00:42:32.300 but anyways,

00:42:33.660 I ended up getting the distribution.

00:42:35.360 So,

00:42:36.020 uh,

00:42:36.280 2015,

00:42:37.300 I get sentenced to 18 months in jail.

00:42:39.180 And so,

00:42:39.860 and that point I really smacked,

00:42:41.760 you know,

00:42:41.960 life smacked me in the mouth and,

00:42:43.260 and really sat me down to really,

00:42:45.400 cause I have a kid at this point.

00:42:47.300 Um,

00:42:47.640 you know,

00:42:48.140 it,

00:42:48.400 there was no more running.

00:42:49.740 And so at that point I got sat down and I was like,

00:42:51.960 man,

00:42:52.140 I need to change my life.

00:42:53.080 It was the first time in my life that I really wanted to change,

00:42:55.920 or not that I didn't,

00:42:56.820 that I really wanted to change,

00:42:57.580 you know,

00:42:57.700 that I was really serious about change.

00:42:58.980 Like,

00:42:59.160 all right,

00:42:59.360 I'll really do what I need to do.

00:43:01.820 And,

00:43:02.260 uh,

00:43:02.520 so in the jail,

00:43:03.660 I had ran into actually an old friend and,

00:43:06.960 um,

00:43:07.520 he had been there for like five years at that point.

00:43:09.500 And he,

00:43:10.100 he was talking about Jesus to me.

00:43:12.060 I'm,

00:43:12.540 and I'm,

00:43:13.020 I'm looking at him.

00:43:14.100 I'm like,

00:43:14.320 something's different about him.

00:43:15.380 Cause I knew him from the streets,

00:43:16.620 you know,

00:43:16.960 I'm like,

00:43:17.380 something is different about the guy.

00:43:19.120 I'm not gonna lie.

00:43:19.780 Sort of that unspeakable joy that dwells within him,

00:43:22.320 you know?

00:43:23.040 Yeah.

00:43:23.560 Unpathomable.

00:43:23.960 Unpathomable,

00:43:24.080 yeah.

00:43:24.360 Yeah.

00:43:25.260 Um,

00:43:26.420 and,

00:43:26.880 uh,

00:43:27.060 but he,

00:43:27.640 but he's talking to me about Jesus.

00:43:28.820 I'm mad at him.

00:43:29.740 I get mad at him.

00:43:30.560 I snapped on him one night.

00:43:31.640 I said,

00:43:31.840 dude,

00:43:32.000 stop talking to me about this Jesus.

00:43:33.280 I said,

00:43:33.460 I don't want to hear it anymore.

00:43:35.120 And,

00:43:35.500 um,

00:43:35.720 and then I left to another jail and,

00:43:37.360 uh,

00:43:38.320 but for some reason,

00:43:39.740 this was another,

00:43:40.500 like one of those moments in life where I have no idea why.

00:43:43.760 I don't even know what happened.

00:43:44.700 Just at some point,

00:43:45.760 I started to think Jesus was my God.

00:43:48.940 No,

00:43:49.580 even,

00:43:50.060 I didn't even really believe in him.

00:43:51.620 I just was like,

00:43:52.140 you know what?

00:43:52.380 I tried all the other gods.

00:43:53.420 Maybe Jesus will be my God.

00:43:55.020 Yeah.

00:43:55.400 Heroin didn't work.

00:43:56.420 The Buddha thing didn't work.

00:43:57.860 Uh,

00:43:58.320 you know what I love about that is everybody wants,

00:44:02.400 everybody expects these kinds of stories that would be in a Hallmark movie or something.

00:44:07.000 And,

00:44:07.240 you know,

00:44:07.800 and this was the,

00:44:08.760 this is the climax of act two.

00:44:10.520 And I,

00:44:10.900 but the way you're telling it,

00:44:11.980 it was like,

00:44:12.240 yeah.

00:44:12.380 And then I just realized,

00:44:13.200 yeah,

00:44:13.340 now he's God.

00:44:14.260 Yeah.

00:44:14.700 Yeah.

00:44:14.940 I just figured out.

00:44:15.680 Yeah.

00:44:15.800 That was it.

00:44:16.540 Yeah.

00:44:16.960 But it's so obvious,

00:44:17.760 you know?

00:44:18.360 Yeah.

00:44:18.700 But it was weird because I didn't,

00:44:20.220 there was nothing.

00:44:21.020 I don't even think I believed that.

00:44:22.880 Yeah.

00:44:23.040 I think it was like,

00:44:24.220 I'll try this one next.

00:44:25.420 It was,

00:44:25.880 I didn't believe that he was God.

00:44:27.400 So it was an experiment.

00:44:28.580 Yeah.

00:44:28.860 It was an experiment.

00:44:29.420 I didn't,

00:44:30.320 I didn't,

00:44:30.640 I just would start talking about Jesus and mention the Bible,

00:44:32.960 but I didn't seek him or anything.

00:44:34.720 I just would.

00:44:35.420 And it was crazy.

00:44:36.160 Cause when I got out,

00:44:37.140 I remember I was like making music and I'm like,

00:44:39.280 I was listening to like some of my old music and I would shout out Jesus.

00:44:42.540 Had no relationship with him whatsoever.

00:44:44.700 Did not know him at all,

00:44:45.620 but I'd be like,

00:44:46.060 yeah,

00:44:46.260 Jesus is whatever.

00:44:47.240 Right.

00:44:47.940 And,

00:44:48.260 and then the next line talk about something crazy probably.

00:44:50.360 Right.

00:44:50.540 But,

00:44:50.860 um,

00:44:51.760 um,

00:44:51.960 so what happened though is after that,

00:44:53.900 this is when everything started to really change and,

00:44:56.500 and,

00:44:56.620 and boil down to it.

00:44:57.780 And so I get out in 2016,

00:44:59.420 I'm trying to get my life together.

00:45:01.500 I'm trying to sell heroin,

00:45:02.460 but I'm still going to the bars.

00:45:03.780 I'm still,

00:45:04.460 you know,

00:45:04.740 I'm getting blackout drunk and,

00:45:06.440 and when you're a heroin addict,

00:45:07.420 that's really good.

00:45:08.260 You're real proud of yourself.

00:45:09.200 You know,

00:45:09.440 it's like all I'm doing is drinking.

00:45:12.580 So I'm,

00:45:13.740 I'm getting my prescription for my Xanax.

00:45:15.860 I'm,

00:45:16.120 I'm doing good,

00:45:16.820 but I'm still,

00:45:17.500 I'm blacking out all the time.

00:45:18.920 And,

00:45:19.300 um,

00:45:19.520 but I'm going to church.

00:45:20.380 That was the one thing that changed.

00:45:21.700 I started going to church like,

00:45:23.740 uh,

00:45:24.260 you know,

00:45:24.660 two or three times a month and nothing happened though,

00:45:28.020 but I would go.

00:45:28.760 And it was like,

00:45:29.400 it was just for me,

00:45:30.240 it was just the one day that I could be someone else.

00:45:32.280 You know,

00:45:32.620 it was like,

00:45:33.140 I,

00:45:33.640 I hated to have to be who I was and I just wanted to like go and,

00:45:37.980 and pretend to be somebody else or like,

00:45:39.900 you know,

00:45:40.220 I just feel like I can get away from my life or something.

00:45:42.540 So there's this common thread from the beginning of the story through this

00:45:46.200 point,

00:45:46.460 which is you're trying to escape an identity that you don't like and,

00:45:53.240 and trying to escape time and space,

00:45:57.600 right?

00:45:57.920 This is something that I've heard from friends of mine who have been addicted to

00:46:03.660 drugs and booze and stuff.

00:46:05.840 And that,

00:46:06.040 and frankly,

00:46:06.580 that I,

00:46:06.860 even I feel if I have a,

00:46:07.880 if I have a drink at the bar after work,

00:46:09.520 which is,

00:46:10.360 oh,

00:46:10.480 it's kind of like time slows down.

00:46:12.920 Oh,

00:46:13.080 I don't,

00:46:13.320 I'm so stressed.

00:46:14.320 I'm on this tight schedule.

00:46:16.000 I'm,

00:46:16.520 ah,

00:46:16.920 but now time,

00:46:19.280 ah,

00:46:19.740 all the constraints of that work,

00:46:21.420 all that stuff,

00:46:22.080 but that's gone for right now.

00:46:24.460 And so,

00:46:24.820 you know,

00:46:25.220 you're,

00:46:25.440 you're finding that in all these different ways.

00:46:28.700 And,

00:46:28.820 and one does find this at church,

00:46:30.200 you know,

00:46:30.400 church on Sunday,

00:46:31.100 you go,

00:46:32.000 and if,

00:46:33.180 if the liturgy is proper,

00:46:35.720 then it is different.

00:46:37.880 It's supposed to be different from the world.

00:46:39.360 You're in the world a lot of the time.

00:46:40.840 And then the church is a,

00:46:42.860 a kingdom that is not of this world.

00:46:45.960 Right.

00:46:46.260 Right.

00:46:46.740 Right.

00:46:47.360 Yeah.

00:46:47.600 And that's what it was.

00:46:48.380 It just was like something cool to do that,

00:46:50.660 you know,

00:46:50.820 I did it by myself.

00:46:51.920 And so there's,

00:46:52.920 I met this girl that would,

00:46:54.140 that would take me.

00:46:55.220 And,

00:46:55.320 and so I started doing that,

00:46:57.920 but again,

00:46:58.400 nothing changed my life as far as like,

00:47:00.660 I wasn't doing heroin and that was about it,

00:47:02.720 but I'm doing everything else I was doing.

00:47:04.320 You know what I mean?

00:47:04.820 I'm still sleeping around.

00:47:06.120 I'm still drinking.

00:47:07.100 I'm still doing this and that.

00:47:08.340 And,

00:47:08.420 and,

00:47:10.220 and I started getting more into music and I was like,

00:47:12.380 all right,

00:47:12.500 I'm going to do music.

00:47:13.200 That's my,

00:47:13.560 what I'm going to pursue in life.

00:47:14.860 And so I started doing that.

00:47:17.260 And then I'm building my life back up.

00:47:19.480 I finally get my,

00:47:20.380 my,

00:47:20.760 my license back after like not having it for a few years.

00:47:24.080 I get a restricted license.

00:47:25.320 I get a car.

00:47:26.500 And two days after I get the car,

00:47:28.400 I wreck into a fire truck,

00:47:29.740 get a DUI,

00:47:30.660 my dad had it for two days,

00:47:33.320 you know,

00:47:34.080 and,

00:47:35.000 and I,

00:47:36.060 and a fire truck pulled in front of me.

00:47:37.240 I hit it.

00:47:37.940 There was no damage,

00:47:38.760 but the cops come,

00:47:39.760 my friends with me,

00:47:40.500 he's,

00:47:40.900 he's passed out in the passenger seat.

00:47:42.600 So they arrest both of us.

00:47:43.980 I get DUI.

00:47:45.040 I,

00:47:45.360 I get out.

00:47:47.140 Um,

00:47:47.540 and you know,

00:47:48.280 I start trying to get back up on my feet.

00:47:50.160 I get,

00:47:50.700 you know,

00:47:51.060 move into a basement.

00:47:52.040 I was living with my dad at the time and,

00:47:53.580 and,

00:47:53.720 and my parents were split up at this time.

00:47:55.220 They split up when I was like 17.

00:47:56.340 So like,

00:47:57.040 so I'm living with my dad at the time

00:47:58.360 and I'm trying to get my life together.

00:48:00.740 I have a job.

00:48:01.820 I'm doing landscaping.

00:48:02.780 I'm,

00:48:03.020 you know,

00:48:03.260 I'm working,

00:48:03.820 working to get on my feet.

00:48:05.240 And,

00:48:05.620 and so I,

00:48:07.780 uh,

00:48:08.660 I have this stuff that I'm building.

00:48:10.240 And then all of a sudden it was like,

00:48:12.860 and I,

00:48:14.100 and here's the thing about God is that I,

00:48:16.420 you don't see him working a lot of times in the moment.

00:48:19.020 It's when you look back.

00:48:20.020 And so I didn't notice any of this.

00:48:22.280 It was,

00:48:22.720 it was,

00:48:23.100 but all of a sudden I started feeling bad about,

00:48:25.060 I was,

00:48:25.340 I was prescribed Suboxone,

00:48:27.040 which is like to get people off heroin and stuff.

00:48:29.040 And,

00:48:29.160 and,

00:48:29.500 and I would,

00:48:30.200 but I would shoot it up,

00:48:31.180 which you're not supposed to do,

00:48:32.260 you know,

00:48:32.580 but,

00:48:32.880 but when you're a heroin addict,

00:48:34.200 like if something's water soluble,

00:48:35.860 you,

00:48:36.220 you want to do it that way.

00:48:37.280 It's just,

00:48:37.780 it's just better.

00:48:38.480 Right.

00:48:38.720 And,

00:48:39.120 um,

00:48:40.300 and so I started feeling guilty about that.

00:48:43.040 So again,

00:48:43.920 for me,

00:48:44.460 that's like,

00:48:45.040 why do I feel bad about this?

00:48:47.600 Why is my conscience speaking to me?

00:48:49.260 Yeah.

00:48:49.520 It was weird.

00:48:51.080 And then I remember I read,

00:48:52.520 cause mind you,

00:48:53.000 I'm going to church.

00:48:53.720 So I started reading the Bible one night.

00:48:56.180 Cause I would read the Bible.

00:48:57.280 People be like,

00:48:57.660 yeah,

00:48:57.760 just read the Bible.

00:48:58.520 And so I'd be like flustered,

00:48:59.740 get wanting to get high.

00:49:00.560 And I'd open the Bible and read like two lines and be like,

00:49:02.920 this doesn't help.

00:49:03.500 And I'd chuck it across the,

00:49:04.380 like I was,

00:49:04.940 you know,

00:49:05.180 I would try.

00:49:06.340 And so I'm calling on God,

00:49:07.640 but nothing was happening.

00:49:08.580 Like,

00:49:08.840 I'm like,

00:49:09.140 what is,

00:49:09.480 nothing's working.

00:49:10.140 And so,

00:49:10.820 and I,

00:49:11.000 and I always tell that to people because a lot of times we think God is like,

00:49:14.940 Hey,

00:49:15.320 I'm ready for you.

00:49:16.260 Come on,

00:49:16.860 come do this for me now.

00:49:18.000 Well,

00:49:18.120 that's what the new age people say.

00:49:19.620 I'm going to manifest this reality.

00:49:22.060 So I'm an,

00:49:22.580 I'm in charge.

00:49:23.560 I'm whatever I want.

00:49:24.560 I'm going to get it.

00:49:25.140 If I just,

00:49:25.860 if I just think hard enough or whatever,

00:49:27.480 it's like,

00:49:27.720 that's not,

00:49:28.460 you're not God.

00:49:29.100 That's not how that works.

00:49:29.940 That's why I always tell them create a tree right now.

00:49:32.560 That's real manifesting.

00:49:33.660 Make a tree grow.

00:49:34.480 You know?

00:49:35.880 And,

00:49:36.300 you know,

00:49:37.140 so it's like this.

00:49:38.360 So one night I read the Bible,

00:49:40.260 I get home from church.

00:49:40.860 I opened the Bible and I started reading first Samuel.

00:49:43.340 And I don't know what happened,

00:49:44.800 but I got pulled into this story.

00:49:46.860 Like it was the best thing that I had ever read.

00:49:49.880 And I'm reading this stuff.

00:49:50.960 Like what?

00:49:52.040 Like,

00:49:52.280 you know,

00:49:52.520 it's more,

00:49:53.080 which part it was,

00:49:54.160 it was a whole thing about the arc of the covenant and,

00:49:56.320 and Eli's sons,

00:49:57.620 you know,

00:49:58.060 tampering with the sacrifices and guys like,

00:50:00.100 I'm taking the covenant.

00:50:01.280 And you know what I'm saying?

00:50:02.080 Or the,

00:50:02.320 the arc of the covenant.

00:50:02.920 And it was like,

00:50:03.460 yo,

00:50:03.580 this is crazy.

00:50:04.800 You know,

00:50:05.100 this is a crazy story.

00:50:06.020 This is,

00:50:06.320 and,

00:50:06.580 and what was wild is it was true.

00:50:09.360 When I read it,

00:50:10.220 I said,

00:50:10.540 this is real.

00:50:11.680 And I said,

00:50:12.500 this is so cool.

00:50:14.400 And then that was about it.

00:50:16.220 I kept going with my life.

00:50:17.500 Well,

00:50:17.680 I get a new car.

00:50:18.460 This is three weeks after I wrecked the other car.

00:50:19.880 I get a new car.

00:50:21.040 My dad takes me to get a car,

00:50:23.180 pick this car up.

00:50:24.800 And I'm sitting there.

00:50:25.780 My dad even says,

00:50:26.480 he says,

00:50:26.780 I have a bad feeling about this.

00:50:28.080 Cause I,

00:50:28.400 you know,

00:50:28.840 I have my,

00:50:29.320 I don't even really technically have my restricted license.

00:50:32.020 At that time was,

00:50:32.980 I had the DUI.

00:50:33.680 I'm out.

00:50:33.940 I'm buying for a DUI.

00:50:35.400 And,

00:50:35.800 and I get the car.

00:50:37.580 I have it for 20 minutes.

00:50:38.620 I'm literally on my way home.

00:50:39.540 I took tags off my dad's van,

00:50:41.700 put it on.

00:50:42.020 I'm like,

00:50:42.300 I'm going straight home,

00:50:43.220 get tags and all that.

00:50:44.220 So I'm driving it super illegally.

00:50:45.860 Don't have insurance,

00:50:46.740 nothing.

00:50:47.420 Buy this car.

00:50:48.220 And I'm,

00:50:48.680 I'm 20 minutes down the road and,

00:50:50.580 and I'm going to switch lanes.

00:50:52.480 I'm out of light to turn left.

00:50:53.520 There's a light to go straight.

00:50:55.140 And I look over my shoulder twice.

00:50:56.740 I'm sober and everything.

00:50:57.620 There's no,

00:50:58.060 there's no cars coming.

00:50:59.380 And I go to pull out.

00:51:00.720 And all of a sudden this car comes over the hill going like 60 miles an hour.

00:51:03.920 And just,

00:51:05.440 just crushes my car.

00:51:07.040 Like,

00:51:07.320 I mean,

00:51:07.600 folds it in half,

00:51:08.640 carries me into the middle of the intersection.

00:51:10.620 And then somehow the car turned back straight.

00:51:12.840 And I said,

00:51:13.580 oh no,

00:51:13.960 I said,

00:51:14.160 I'm out of here.

00:51:14.760 And I started trying to drive away.

00:51:16.560 But then I said,

00:51:17.260 oh,

00:51:17.400 my,

00:51:17.560 my insurer,

00:51:18.660 my,

00:51:18.880 my name's in the register or title is crushed in the glove box.

00:51:22.520 So I said,

00:51:22.860 I think I should pull over.

00:51:23.920 So,

00:51:24.220 so I pulled over.

00:51:25.200 I get arrested for that.

00:51:26.320 Driving on suspended.

00:51:27.200 They charge,

00:51:27.680 everything's my fault because just because I wasn't licensed.

00:51:30.220 Right.

00:51:30.540 It was all on me.

00:51:31.240 So that happened.

00:51:34.020 I get out.

00:51:35.180 You know,

00:51:35.420 my mom feels bad.

00:51:36.420 She's,

00:51:36.800 she comes to the scene.

00:51:38.040 She like,

00:51:38.700 I'm,

00:51:38.960 I'm upset.

00:51:39.580 I'm like,

00:51:39.820 dude,

00:51:39.940 I'm trying my best to get ahead in life.

00:51:41.920 You know,

00:51:42.200 I'm trying not to do heroin.

00:51:43.320 I'm doing like everything's just,

00:51:44.740 so my life is like just crumbling around me.

00:51:47.120 And it was like everywhere I turned disaster,

00:51:49.780 mayhem.

00:51:50.600 And so I'm like,

00:51:51.500 and I get home.

00:51:52.260 And then a week later I get kicked out of my,

00:51:54.100 my basement for having like someone over or whatever.

00:51:56.540 And the landlord kicks me out.

00:51:58.200 And then they had something hidden in the lease where it was like,

00:52:00.380 they don't even have to give me a notice.

00:52:01.760 And I said,

00:52:02.140 I guess I signed that probably,

00:52:03.380 you know,

00:52:03.600 unknowingly.

00:52:04.160 So it was like,

00:52:04.800 yeah,

00:52:04.920 you got three days and you're out.

00:52:06.160 So now I'm homeless.

00:52:08.140 So this is,

00:52:08.900 this is like June,

00:52:12.220 2016 or 2017.

00:52:15.900 And so I had been out for a year.

00:52:17.800 Now I'm homeless.

00:52:18.800 Everything just kind of hit the fan at this point.

00:52:21.200 You know,

00:52:21.540 it perfectly worked out where everybody had kind of turned their back on me as

00:52:26.700 far as like friends that were kind of there.

00:52:28.820 All those relationships started falling apart.

00:52:31.100 My parents,

00:52:31.960 they still love me.

00:52:32.720 They're so there for me,

00:52:33.640 but it was like,

00:52:34.300 we're not buying any more cars.

00:52:35.760 The cars are out.

00:52:36.580 You're done.

00:52:37.140 Yeah.

00:52:37.320 Like you're,

00:52:37.900 you're on your own and you know,

00:52:40.160 I respect that,

00:52:41.420 you know,

00:52:41.640 that was,

00:52:42.100 it was due time.

00:52:42.780 So all that is,

00:52:44.220 is kind of there.

00:52:46.400 And,

00:52:46.860 and now I'm just there in the,

00:52:48.860 in the woods and I,

00:52:49.760 and I'm going into this really like dark place of just being comfortably numb

00:52:54.260 again.

00:52:54.560 I'm just like,

00:52:55.340 I'm working at Fridays and,

00:52:57.060 and you know,

00:52:58.060 and so here where everything shifted was about a month into this.

00:53:01.400 I was working at Fridays one night and this lady came up to me and she said,

00:53:03.820 God said,

00:53:04.280 you need to see him.

00:53:05.280 And I stopped going to church like three months prior.

00:53:07.480 This was a lady from church that came up to you?

00:53:09.140 No,

00:53:09.340 a lady that I worked with.

00:53:10.400 She came up to me.

00:53:11.260 She said,

00:53:11.480 God said that you need to see him.

00:53:13.380 And I was like,

00:53:14.220 yeah,

00:53:14.400 I know.

00:53:14.960 I said,

00:53:15.280 how do I get in touch with him?

00:53:16.380 How do I make a meeting?

00:53:17.300 Yeah,

00:53:17.600 let's do this.

00:53:18.300 You know,

00:53:18.600 I'm ready.

00:53:19.320 So,

00:53:20.380 but it's hit me something.

00:53:21.860 I was like,

00:53:22.920 cause at this point I believe there's a God.

00:53:24.360 I know there's spirit.

00:53:25.080 I know the spiritual world is 100% real.

00:53:26.820 There's not a shadow in my mind that that is real.

00:53:29.580 So I already am aware.

00:53:30.620 I'm like,

00:53:31.080 that was really weird.

00:53:32.080 But,

00:53:32.240 but you know,

00:53:33.200 but there's an Italian expression.

00:53:37.220 Between doing,

00:53:39.900 between saying and doing is a whole wide ocean.

00:53:42.900 You know,

00:53:43.120 you can say it because I know intellectually this is true,

00:53:46.400 but okay,

00:53:47.120 what are you going to do?

00:53:48.120 Right.

00:53:48.560 Right.

00:53:49.180 Yeah.

00:53:49.480 And that's kind of where I was at.

00:53:51.160 I was like,

00:53:51.460 all right,

00:53:51.640 I'll talk to him,

00:53:52.280 go to him.

00:53:52.900 But that was,

00:53:53.500 you know,

00:53:53.900 I,

00:53:54.220 this has been a year where I'm crying out to him.

00:53:56.800 Nothing's really happened yet.

00:53:58.160 Yeah.

00:53:58.360 Yeah.

00:53:59.900 And so I go to the AA meeting.

00:54:01.760 I go to an AA meeting down the street and I leave and go into the chapel.

00:54:05.200 And I'm going into the chapel and I said,

00:54:07.480 all right,

00:54:07.620 God,

00:54:07.800 I'm here.

00:54:08.220 What do you want?

00:54:09.540 I sit down.

00:54:11.280 Nothing happens.

00:54:11.960 I read the Bible.

00:54:12.820 I just open it.

00:54:13.560 And I read this,

00:54:14.120 this page.

00:54:15.060 Don't think anything of it.

00:54:15.940 Leave.

00:54:16.240 A week later,

00:54:16.780 I come back.

00:54:17.240 I do the exact same thing.

00:54:18.600 I don't even know why though.

00:54:19.520 I'm going to the AA meeting because I'm trying to get my life together.

00:54:22.500 But something pulls me into the chapel.

00:54:24.480 Hey God,

00:54:24.860 I'm here again.

00:54:25.540 What do you want?

00:54:26.800 Open the Bible.

00:54:27.620 And as I get halfway through reading through it and I realized,

00:54:30.360 oh,

00:54:30.920 this was the same exact verse I read the last time I was here.

00:54:34.100 Psalm 18.

00:54:34.900 And so I'm like,

00:54:35.740 what?

00:54:36.280 That's crazy.

00:54:37.240 So now all of a sudden something's got my attention.

00:54:40.600 And so now about,

00:54:42.840 let's fast forward maybe like a week.

00:54:44.820 Now everything starts rapidly moving,

00:54:46.380 right?

00:54:46.580 So a week later,

00:54:48.040 I was with some guys in the woods.

00:54:49.580 They smoked this stuff called K2.

00:54:51.060 It started off as like an incense and they,

00:54:52.920 you know,

00:54:53.180 they would sell it at the gas stations.

00:54:54.620 Well,

00:54:54.860 it,

00:54:55.120 it leveled up and now it's,

00:54:56.780 it's like a whole other thing.

00:54:58.280 It's very,

00:54:58.760 very like powerful.

00:54:59.700 It's like the,

00:55:00.360 the drug is incense.

00:55:02.680 It started off.

00:55:03.400 It was like an incense and you would smoke and it would,

00:55:05.840 it would resemble weed,

00:55:07.080 you know,

00:55:07.400 but I never liked it because it would,

00:55:08.660 it just didn't feel right.

00:55:09.680 You know,

00:55:10.100 it was like something about wasn't right.

00:55:11.880 And,

00:55:11.960 and so basically I would see these guys bug out on it.

00:55:17.240 Like they would be slumped over,

00:55:18.940 be acting crazy.

00:55:20.100 And I was like,

00:55:20.560 there is no way that this does that.

00:55:22.880 And so.

00:55:23.860 I'm going to test that for myself.

00:55:25.600 Yeah.

00:55:25.920 Yeah.

00:55:26.440 I said,

00:55:26.760 yeah.

00:55:26.900 And that's really what it was.

00:55:27.760 Cause I'm in my mind.

00:55:28.600 I said,

00:55:28.780 I do real drugs,

00:55:29.700 you know,

00:55:29.940 like this is,

00:55:30.720 there's no way this does that.

00:55:31.740 And so they told me,

00:55:32.440 they said,

00:55:32.900 just take one hit.

00:55:34.540 It's like this stuff strong.

00:55:35.920 And I said,

00:55:36.360 no,

00:55:36.620 I hit it like three times.

00:55:38.940 And next thing I know,

00:55:40.320 as soon as I like pass it to someone,

00:55:43.140 I,

00:55:43.640 at this point I've overdosed on heroin like four or five times.

00:55:46.900 So I,

00:55:47.620 I,

00:55:48.100 I know what it feels like to like,

00:55:50.660 you know,

00:55:51.100 there,

00:55:51.240 there's a split second of just your body,

00:55:53.420 registering whatever you just did was too much for us.

00:55:55.820 And so next thing I know is I just hear them say,

00:55:57.560 Oh,

00:55:57.680 he's going out.

00:55:58.260 And I just feel myself falling to the ground and I start to crawl.

00:56:01.140 And then next thing I know I'm in a,

00:56:03.480 in a dream world.

00:56:05.700 Right.

00:56:06.040 And in this dream world,

00:56:07.200 I'm walking down a path.

00:56:10.080 There's demons on my left and demons on my right.

00:56:13.280 And they're,

00:56:14.200 they're basically laughing at me.

00:56:15.940 They're like,

00:56:16.340 they're different sizes.

00:56:17.520 They,

00:56:17.740 they have these little robes.

00:56:18.760 They have these big grins.

00:56:20.360 And I'm,

00:56:21.020 but I'm like not really paying attention to them because I'm following

00:56:23.280 another one.

00:56:24.360 It had its back to me.

00:56:25.960 And so we're walking down this hall and we get to this big door.

00:56:29.240 And so right before we get to the door,

00:56:30.780 it says one more step.

00:56:31.620 You're almost there.

00:56:33.260 And it turned around.

00:56:34.160 And when it looked at me,

00:56:34.680 it was an ugly demon.

00:56:35.980 And I said,

00:56:36.720 hell no.

00:56:37.240 And I turned around.

00:56:38.060 And when I turned around,

00:56:39.400 I woke up in a pool of sweat.

00:56:41.420 And so I was,

00:56:42.680 that one,

00:56:43.420 that was like another hook where it just like,

00:56:45.580 what the heck was that?

00:56:46.520 That was not normal.

00:56:47.340 What do they look like?

00:56:48.520 They look like little like gremlins,

00:56:50.440 like almost like the,

00:56:51.300 the,

00:56:52.160 you know,

00:56:52.480 from Lord of the Rings,

00:56:53.260 the little guy that chases the ring.

00:56:55.220 I think,

00:56:55.360 I don't,

00:56:55.520 I don't even think I ever watched that movie for real,

00:56:57.160 but I know the little guy.

00:56:58.840 You met the real thing.

00:57:00.100 Yeah.

00:57:00.440 They,

00:57:00.580 they look kind of like that.

00:57:01.620 The ones I've seen that they're just ugly.

00:57:03.080 They're,

00:57:03.240 they're like,

00:57:03.720 they're deformed,

00:57:04.540 like almost like little,

00:57:06.040 like almost like you see in horror movies.

00:57:07.780 Like that's what they look like.

00:57:09.000 And,

00:57:09.220 and they're,

00:57:09.780 some of them would be like three feet tall.

00:57:11.300 Some of them would be like six feet tall.

00:57:12.980 You know,

00:57:13.220 like there are different sizes and they're just,

00:57:15.060 there's ugly,

00:57:15.620 but they all had these big smiles.

00:57:17.020 It's like these,

00:57:17.780 like,

00:57:18.080 like these,

00:57:19.100 these mocking,

00:57:19.960 they're like these mocking spirits or something.

00:57:21.800 And,

00:57:22.060 and so that happened.

00:57:24.800 And a week after that,

00:57:26.740 I go to see my,

00:57:28.680 my grandma and with my dad.

00:57:31.060 And so I go to see her and I go out one night and I come home and,

00:57:35.900 uh,

00:57:36.280 I had,

00:57:36.760 I went to the bar,

00:57:37.360 I was drinking and stuff.

00:57:38.440 And I come back and I'm sleeping with my uncle,

00:57:41.340 you know,

00:57:41.680 like he,

00:57:42.080 it was like a two couches and a long bed or whatever connected.

00:57:44.720 So I'm sleeping in the bed with him basically.

00:57:46.700 And I'm about to fall asleep.

00:57:49.240 And I start hearing the TV start.

00:57:54.680 I'm watching American pickers.

00:57:55.800 I'm halfway asleep.

00:57:56.500 So I'm awake and I'll never forget the,

00:57:58.820 their voices change into demonic voices.

00:58:01.180 Hmm.

00:58:01.420 So their voices turn into demon voices and they start saying,

00:58:05.340 talking about me.

00:58:06.500 And I said,

00:58:07.140 I don't know if,

00:58:07.840 uh,

00:58:08.000 like,

00:58:08.280 have you ever heard of like sleep paralysis?

00:58:09.800 Yeah.

00:58:09.980 I had it once,

00:58:11.260 certainly maybe twice.

00:58:12.820 Yeah.

00:58:13.300 And it's,

00:58:13.740 it's very scary.

00:58:15.060 Right.

00:58:15.340 Cause it's not,

00:58:15.760 cause it sounds like you hear demons.

00:58:17.320 Yeah.

00:58:17.940 Maybe you do.

00:58:18.760 And you lose control of your body.

00:58:19.980 Like you can't move.

00:58:20.780 So you're just there hearing,

00:58:22.460 I forget what,

00:58:23.740 I just heard like a weird demon voice and I was totally,

00:58:27.140 I was awake,

00:58:27.980 but I couldn't move my body.

00:58:29.520 I thought the hell,

00:58:31.420 you know,

00:58:31.700 what is this?

00:58:32.380 And then,

00:58:33.100 you know,

00:58:34.060 30 seconds later it was,

00:58:35.100 it was over.

00:58:35.580 I could move again.

00:58:37.020 Yeah.

00:58:37.440 I had to look,

00:58:37.940 I said,

00:58:38.100 what was that?

00:58:38.700 You know,

00:58:39.160 and it's sleep paralysis.

00:58:40.600 Yeah.

00:58:40.700 And you know,

00:58:41.300 it's funny actually to backtrack real quick when that first started,

00:58:44.220 cause I had it a lot.

00:58:45.340 It first started happening when I started doing Buddhism.

00:58:48.260 The first time I started having sleep paralysis was when I started getting deep into Buddhism.

00:58:51.720 I started having it all the time and it freaked me out,

00:58:54.940 but it also intrigued me.

00:58:56.360 So it was like this,

00:58:57.380 this double edged thing where it scared me,

00:58:59.780 but then when it wouldn't happen,

00:59:00.840 I'd kind of be like,

00:59:01.360 no,

00:59:01.560 I want to see what happens if I stay in there and like,

00:59:04.060 don't fight it.

00:59:05.960 But anyways,

00:59:06.740 that starts happening.

00:59:07.620 So I'm in sleep paralysis.

00:59:08.620 It feels like something's getting in my body.

00:59:10.440 Like I'm like this.

00:59:11.840 It's like,

00:59:12.080 something's trying to get in my body.

00:59:13.780 And the TV says,

00:59:15.420 his name is Josh.

00:59:16.020 He's from Virginia.

00:59:17.000 We need to destroy him.

00:59:18.540 They're talking about me.

00:59:19.580 I'm hearing it and I'm feeling something in my body.

00:59:21.820 Next thing I know,

00:59:22.440 I'm like finding myself on the floor.

00:59:26.160 And I guess I was like screaming,

00:59:27.820 crying or something.

00:59:28.660 My dad said,

00:59:29.220 like I woke up the whole house,

00:59:30.320 making these moans or whatever.

00:59:32.480 They come downstairs.

00:59:33.640 I'm like,

00:59:33.860 oh,

00:59:33.960 I'm good.

00:59:34.180 I'm good.

00:59:34.680 And I lay back down.

00:59:35.880 Well,

00:59:36.020 when I lay back down,

00:59:36.860 all of a sudden I'm having something tell me to kill my uncle.

00:59:39.500 In my head,

00:59:40.220 something's telling me,

00:59:41.200 kill your uncle.

00:59:41.700 And I,

00:59:42.980 you know,

00:59:43.280 there's obviously there was no reason to think that or want to do that.

00:59:46.060 So I'm sitting here thinking like,

00:59:48.860 what?

00:59:50.060 Why,

00:59:50.540 where's this thought coming from?

00:59:52.320 And while I'm saying no,

00:59:54.100 I'm also simultaneously getting up to do it.

00:59:57.160 So it's like,

00:59:57.940 I'm on autopilot getting up.

00:59:59.480 And I find myself standing over my uncle and someone just tell me,

01:00:02.640 like just crush his head.

01:00:04.160 Like just,

01:00:04.580 just squeeze his head.

01:00:05.500 Like,

01:00:05.660 and,

01:00:06.000 and,

01:00:06.100 and I started going like this over his head.

01:00:08.060 And then his eyes popped up open and he,

01:00:10.040 and he's like,

01:00:11.060 and he freaked him out,

01:00:11.860 obviously.

01:00:12.380 And he,

01:00:12.640 he went in the other room,

01:00:13.600 you know,

01:00:13.800 and he went and went and slept somewhere else.

01:00:16.160 So that was number two.

01:00:17.940 That was like a wake up number two,

01:00:20.440 as far as like the demons,

01:00:22.560 demonic realm.

01:00:23.620 Right.

01:00:24.580 So now I'm like,

01:00:25.420 dude,

01:00:25.640 demons are really real.

01:00:27.140 Like there's no doubt about it.

01:00:28.700 And I'm getting kind of freaked out.

01:00:30.420 Yeah.

01:00:31.360 And,

01:00:31.760 and so I come home and there's another couple of weeks past.

01:00:35.200 And,

01:00:35.400 and,

01:00:35.540 and so basically I come to this place where I want to go to a rehab.

01:00:39.900 And so I,

01:00:41.260 I'm in a hotel room one night and I said,

01:00:42.580 I'm going to get high one more time.

01:00:43.700 At this point,

01:00:44.060 I think I was clean off heroin.

01:00:45.140 For like three months,

01:00:46.120 but I was shooting up like crack and all those types.

01:00:48.580 And I didn't even,

01:00:49.520 I didn't even like it.

01:00:50.300 I was just doing any,

01:00:51.300 like whatever was around,

01:00:52.520 as long as it wasn't heroin,

01:00:54.100 I would do it.

01:00:55.400 And so,

01:00:55.940 and you think you're going to rehab.

01:00:57.620 So all right,

01:00:57.940 one more for the road.

01:00:59.460 Yeah.

01:01:00.040 Yeah.

01:01:00.620 And that's so stupid,

01:01:02.100 but everybody thinks that way.

01:01:03.640 It doesn't matter what it is.

01:01:04.740 Just like,

01:01:05.020 ah,

01:01:05.200 well,

01:01:05.580 you know,

01:01:05.820 one more for the road.

01:01:07.120 Yeah.

01:01:07.260 Tomorrow.

01:01:07.640 That's when I'll clean up.

01:01:08.500 Yeah.

01:01:08.800 And,

01:01:08.920 and the same thing with getting out of jail,

01:01:10.540 you know,

01:01:10.820 that the overdose,

01:01:11.840 uh,

01:01:12.400 statistics are it's,

01:01:13.600 you're 129 times more likely to overdose within two weeks of getting out of

01:01:17.600 jail or like a program.

01:01:19.000 And that's like crazy,

01:01:20.120 you know,

01:01:20.880 times,

01:01:21.620 but,

01:01:22.080 um,

01:01:22.400 that's what it was.

01:01:23.480 It was three months.

01:01:24.080 I was like,

01:01:24.260 I'm gonna get high one more time.

01:01:25.520 And,

01:01:25.900 uh,

01:01:26.480 I remember I was sitting in the bathroom and I mean,

01:01:28.520 at this point I was pretty broken,

01:01:30.280 you know,

01:01:30.620 like I was pretty,

01:01:32.300 what am I gonna do?

01:01:33.140 And,

01:01:33.560 um,

01:01:33.800 and I started talking to God.

01:01:35.020 I said,

01:01:35.500 you know,

01:01:35.820 Lord,

01:01:36.040 I said,

01:01:37.200 I,

01:01:37.480 I,

01:01:37.860 I said the center prayer.

01:01:39.500 I said,

01:01:40.100 I did,

01:01:40.520 I went to church.

01:01:41.960 I,

01:01:42.380 I literally called on you to help me.

01:01:43.600 Every time I went to go buy drugs,

01:01:45.340 I begged you to help me and stop me.

01:01:47.380 I said,

01:01:47.800 what else do you want from me?

01:01:48.820 I said,

01:01:49.040 this is all I know.

01:01:49.780 I'm sitting here looking at these drugs.

01:01:50.860 I hate these drugs.

01:01:51.680 This is all I know.

01:01:52.740 What else do you expect from me?

01:01:53.940 I says,

01:01:54.460 forgive me.

01:01:55.040 And I started saying the Lord's prayer while I was tying my arm and doing all

01:01:58.120 this stuff.

01:01:58.460 I started saying our father who art in heaven while I was doing it.

01:02:01.180 And I said,

01:02:01.600 forgive me.

01:02:02.020 This is it.

01:02:02.380 That's all I know.

01:02:03.540 And so I,

01:02:04.060 I subconsciously knew I was going to overdose because I knew I was doing too much.

01:02:07.260 It wasn't intentional,

01:02:08.180 but I was just like,

01:02:09.200 you know what?

01:02:09.800 I hope it kind of happens,

01:02:11.380 but I don't,

01:02:11.920 I'm not trying to make it happen,

01:02:13.180 but if it does,

01:02:14.100 whatever.

01:02:15.340 And,

01:02:15.640 and so that's a really,

01:02:17.740 I think I get what you're talking about,

01:02:21.180 but I couldn't articulate that,

01:02:23.700 that you're saying it's not intentional,

01:02:25.560 but I knew it was too much and I was doing it anyway,

01:02:28.840 but it wasn't quite intentional,

01:02:30.920 but like,

01:02:32.240 it wasn't not intentional either.

01:02:34.180 Yeah.

01:02:34.480 It was,

01:02:34.720 it was just hopelessness.

01:02:37.160 It's just like,

01:02:38.180 whatever happens will be that kind of thing.

01:02:40.920 Like this,

01:02:41.780 you know,

01:02:42.180 and,

01:02:42.740 um,

01:02:43.280 even though,

01:02:43.700 you know,

01:02:43.900 what's going to happen.

01:02:44.960 He's like,

01:02:45.420 well,

01:02:45.700 whatever it's out of my hands,

01:02:46.920 even though I know exactly what's going to happen.

01:02:48.660 I did,

01:02:49.160 but I also,

01:02:49.880 there,

01:02:50.160 it's funny because you get this,

01:02:51.640 like this pride when you get an addiction,

01:02:53.360 there's this pride associated with it where you build up tolerances.

01:02:56.660 Yeah.

01:02:56.920 Like I had overdosed,

01:02:57.780 like,

01:02:57.920 like I said,

01:02:58.320 like four or five times.

01:02:59.480 And,

01:02:59.720 and,

01:02:59.940 and so you build up this,

01:03:01.440 this ego with it where you're like,

01:03:03.160 I'll be good.

01:03:04.160 I came back the last time.

01:03:05.840 I'm good.

01:03:06.440 So you get this pride with it.

01:03:07.540 And so that's,

01:03:07.980 that's what it was.

01:03:08.640 It was like,

01:03:09.060 yeah,

01:03:09.340 I think I'm going to overdose.

01:03:10.360 I'll be all right though.

01:03:11.160 That's what I thought.

01:03:12.080 So,

01:03:13.100 um,

01:03:13.720 I did it.

01:03:16.040 And I instantly,

01:03:17.300 again,

01:03:17.680 my body goes into a fight mode.

01:03:19.260 Like I said,

01:03:20.300 I stand up and I said,

01:03:21.080 run,

01:03:21.660 like,

01:03:21.920 just keep your body moving.

01:03:22.880 Cause I knew I had,

01:03:23.820 I felt that feeling of like that comes before an overdose.

01:03:27.280 It's very,

01:03:28.140 the split second of knowing.

01:03:29.520 And I ran out the door.

01:03:31.260 And next thing I know I'm in an ambulance.

01:03:33.740 And so I'm waking up in an ambulance like,

01:03:35.400 Oh no,

01:03:35.780 again.

01:03:36.080 And cause now I'm thinking my first thought is I had drugs or I had a needle,

01:03:41.960 you know,

01:03:42.620 cops.

01:03:43.300 And so,

01:03:43.860 um,

01:03:45.400 I wake up there,

01:03:46.340 you know,

01:03:46.540 they revive me and the cop says,

01:03:48.320 you know,

01:03:48.440 now you're going to jail.

01:03:49.360 If you're,

01:03:49.600 you say,

01:03:50.040 you do want to go to the hospital?

01:03:51.000 I said,

01:03:51.120 no.

01:03:51.460 He said,

01:03:51.720 all right.

01:03:52.280 Then you go to the other place.

01:03:53.600 Yeah.

01:03:55.180 And,

01:03:55.640 uh,

01:03:55.940 that was the moment that really everything changed.

01:03:58.760 I go to jail.

01:04:00.100 I'm in a suicide watch.

01:04:02.860 So they take basically the jail experience and make it worse.

01:04:05.760 You know,

01:04:06.200 it was like,

01:04:06.420 they take all your clothes.

01:04:07.180 You don't get the regular food.

01:04:08.760 And I'm sitting in there and I basically was like,

01:04:10.960 you know what?

01:04:11.620 Um,

01:04:12.360 going through hell on earth.

01:04:13.640 I mean,

01:04:13.880 and I remember I looked over on my cell wall and it said cold hell on the,

01:04:16.880 on the wall.

01:04:18.200 I'm on the phone.

01:04:18.820 My mom's,

01:04:19.720 you know,

01:04:20.580 crying.

01:04:21.140 She's like,

01:04:21.440 you almost died again.

01:04:23.120 Everything's hitting me.

01:04:23.800 It was like,

01:04:24.080 for the first time in my life,

01:04:25.080 all my choices smacked me in the face in a different way.

01:04:27.760 Like I always knew I was just screwing up.

01:04:30.280 But this time it was like,

01:04:31.360 God put everything just in a pile right in front of me.

01:04:34.440 And I'm in this room going through literally withdrawals from multiple things and just having

01:04:39.740 to sit there and look at it and knowing there's nothing like you can't go anywhere for five

01:04:43.360 days.

01:04:43.780 And I,

01:04:44.200 all I said was God have mercy.

01:04:45.780 God have mercy.

01:04:46.760 Uh,

01:04:47.280 our father,

01:04:47.660 I said the Lord's prayer over and over.

01:04:48.960 That's all I could do.

01:04:50.700 And I said,

01:04:51.180 if you help me,

01:04:52.020 I said,

01:04:52.460 I'll be a good boy.

01:04:53.280 That's all I want.

01:04:54.100 I said,

01:04:54.380 I just want to be a good boy.

01:04:55.260 I said,

01:04:55.480 Lord,

01:04:55.820 I don't,

01:04:56.300 I won't go to the bar anymore.

01:04:57.600 I don't even want a girlfriend.

01:04:58.680 I said,

01:04:58.920 I just want to be good.

01:04:59.680 Like that was how I was just,

01:05:00.820 I was done.

01:05:02.160 And,

01:05:02.540 um,

01:05:02.860 and I get out and I go to the,

01:05:04.180 they transfer me to the little pod.

01:05:06.360 And I sit there for like three days.

01:05:07.600 And I remember,

01:05:08.140 because in,

01:05:08.580 in,

01:05:08.680 in a jail pod,

01:05:10.000 people do nothing.

01:05:11.260 It's like people just sit there and talk about terrible things,

01:05:14.180 play cards or watch TV.

01:05:15.640 That's,

01:05:15.980 that's all that they're doing.

01:05:17.200 It's like the most miserable way to spend your time,

01:05:20.500 you know?

01:05:20.880 And I said,

01:05:21.600 George Bernard show,

01:05:22.340 I said that hell is the place where you have nothing to do all day,

01:05:25.140 but amuse yourself.

01:05:26.700 So you just,

01:05:27.480 I guess we'll play cards now.

01:05:28.840 I guess we'll talk about crime now.

01:05:31.800 I don't know.

01:05:32.060 Do whatever.

01:05:33.220 Yeah.

01:05:33.900 That's what it was.

01:05:34.640 And I sat there and I said,

01:05:37.180 I'm not doing this again.

01:05:39.000 I just,

01:05:39.380 cause I had just did the 18 months,

01:05:40.820 like 11 months prior.

01:05:42.360 I said,

01:05:42.920 Oh no.

01:05:43.420 I said,

01:05:43.760 I'm not.

01:05:44.080 And I know in my mind,

01:05:45.360 I brought back another felony.

01:05:46.300 I'm already on probation.

01:05:47.120 I have eight years over my head.

01:05:48.140 I said,

01:05:48.640 I'm not doing this again.

01:05:50.040 In my mind,

01:05:50.500 I'm like,

01:05:50.800 Oh my gosh,

01:05:51.900 I'm probably going to be here like five years.

01:05:53.300 Yeah.

01:05:53.860 I said,

01:05:54.120 I'm done.

01:05:54.600 They're going to toast me.

01:05:55.540 I'm done.

01:05:56.120 My life is over.

01:05:57.520 I said,

01:05:57.860 well,

01:05:58.060 I'm not sitting in this pod.

01:05:59.460 I'm going to join a program,

01:06:00.640 something.

01:06:01.440 Yeah.

01:06:01.600 So there was this program called the mind dorm,

01:06:03.460 which was,

01:06:03.880 it stands for men in a new direction.

01:06:06.060 And it's in the Prince William County jail that,

01:06:08.080 that I don't know where else it is,

01:06:09.260 but,

01:06:09.660 um,

01:06:10.780 so I,

01:06:11.280 I hear about this.

01:06:12.300 It's a faith-based program in the jail.

01:06:14.720 And so I go to it and I,

01:06:15.700 and I remember like,

01:06:16.280 everyone's like,

01:06:16.720 dude,

01:06:16.900 don't go there.

01:06:17.540 They got rules.

01:06:18.260 You can't cuss there.

01:06:19.200 You have to wake up early.

01:06:20.080 Like all this stuff.

01:06:20.800 Right.

01:06:21.380 And I'm like,

01:06:21.680 I don't care.

01:06:22.140 I'm not sitting here with you guys.

01:06:24.260 Are you not there?

01:06:25.780 Okay,

01:06:26.120 cool.

01:06:26.460 Then I'm going.

01:06:28.220 So I walk in.

01:06:30.020 And,

01:06:30.320 uh,

01:06:30.500 the funny thing is there was a friend of mine that was there and I was supposed to move in with him like two weeks later and he disappeared.

01:06:35.800 He went to,

01:06:36.100 he got locked up.

01:06:37.040 And so I walk in.

01:06:37.940 I'm assigned to his bunk.

01:06:38.860 I'm like,

01:06:39.040 I guess we moved in together one way or another,

01:06:41.020 you know?

01:06:41.800 And,

01:06:42.220 uh,

01:06:42.840 and so I was there and after a week,

01:06:45.140 I almost left because it was like,

01:06:47.340 you had to wake up at six and jail.

01:06:49.220 You don't want to be awake all day.

01:06:50.840 You know what I mean?

01:06:51.540 Like you want to sleep as late as you can.

01:06:53.440 And so all this is happening.

01:06:55.800 Uh,

01:06:56.120 and I'm about to leave.

01:06:57.600 But then one day it was probably the second week.

01:07:00.540 I'm thinking about leaving.

01:07:01.740 Something spoke to me in my heart again.

01:07:03.840 It was like this thought of,

01:07:06.240 why don't you just try?

01:07:06.980 It was just a thought that wasn't my thought,

01:07:09.860 but it was so loud.

01:07:10.880 Like kind of like it,

01:07:11.700 it silenced everything.

01:07:12.860 I said,

01:07:13.100 why don't you just try for once?

01:07:14.600 Like,

01:07:15.500 and I kind of thought about it.

01:07:16.480 I was like,

01:07:16.800 you know what?

01:07:17.480 Where else am I going to go?

01:07:18.740 I said,

01:07:19.140 I might as well,

01:07:19.600 when these speakers come in,

01:07:20.880 I might as well listen.

01:07:22.180 If I got to read the Bible at this time of the day,

01:07:24.080 I might as well read it.

01:07:24.880 What else are you going to do?

01:07:25.840 Exactly.

01:07:26.380 And so I started doing that and it was like a week went by.

01:07:30.520 Next thing I knew,

01:07:31.260 I wanted to read the Bible for fun.

01:07:33.200 So when it was free time and everyone was watching TV,

01:07:35.440 I'd be reading the Bible.

01:07:37.100 And then I would start praying.

01:07:39.640 Mind you,

01:07:40.060 I'm going through withdrawals still,

01:07:41.260 because Suboxone withdrawals take like a month.

01:07:43.220 I'm not sleeping.

01:07:44.920 I think I'm doing,

01:07:46.300 if I'm lucky,

01:07:47.060 three years in prison.

01:07:48.840 And I'm somehow,

01:07:49.980 I'm starting to be happier than I ever have been in my life.

01:07:52.600 So it's just like this contradiction going on,

01:07:56.420 but I'm feeling more alive every day.

01:07:58.580 All of a sudden people would come up to me and they'd be like,

01:08:00.580 dude,

01:08:00.720 what happened to you?

01:08:01.340 You're different.

01:08:01.760 One guy came up to me and he said,

01:08:05.120 dude,

01:08:05.280 every time I'm having a bad day,

01:08:06.700 he said,

01:08:06.800 when I look at you,

01:08:07.980 he said,

01:08:08.420 I feel hope.

01:08:09.920 Like,

01:08:10.160 cause I just started having this joy.

01:08:11.660 It was like,

01:08:11.960 it was,

01:08:12.300 and I didn't know what was happening to me.

01:08:13.820 I'd look at myself and be like,

01:08:14.960 what's happening to you?

01:08:15.760 Because I just felt like I was changing and I didn't,

01:08:18.820 I didn't connect the dots still.

01:08:20.360 I still didn't connect that.

01:08:21.220 Cause there was no moment.

01:08:22.080 It was like,

01:08:22.420 Oh,

01:08:22.800 you know,

01:08:23.360 burning bush.

01:08:24.300 It was just,

01:08:25.120 I would read the word,

01:08:26.000 I'd pray.

01:08:27.060 And all of a sudden I would like be in conversations and they'd be talking about drugs.

01:08:30.080 And I'd be like,

01:08:30.820 this is a stupid conversation.

01:08:32.040 I'd go to read my Bible.

01:08:33.460 And,

01:08:33.780 and that was like the first thing I started noticing about two weeks after that.

01:08:39.300 I would start praying.

01:08:41.040 I'd be like in prayer,

01:08:42.420 worshiping Jesus,

01:08:43.260 whatever.

01:08:43.540 And it would just feel like a,

01:08:45.920 a love bomb would fall on me of like,

01:08:48.720 it reminded me of how I felt when I was on mushrooms,

01:08:51.140 except it was a hundred times more pure like that,

01:08:53.820 like uncontrollable laughter and just joy.

01:08:55.880 I felt on mushrooms.

01:08:56.980 It made that look like Creek water compared to Dasani or something.

01:09:00.460 You know what I mean?

01:09:00.980 It was like,

01:09:01.780 I thought that was joy,

01:09:04.500 you know?

01:09:05.340 And,

01:09:05.800 and I would have to do mushrooms to have that joy,

01:09:07.520 but that wasn't even real joy.

01:09:08.880 That was like artificial,

01:09:10.460 artificial joy.

01:09:11.380 I was laughing.

01:09:12.220 I thought it was joy,

01:09:13.120 but I was,

01:09:13.820 I was,

01:09:14.200 I was getting like covered in this just love.

01:09:16.940 And I mean,

01:09:17.340 it was,

01:09:18.080 it freaked me out because I,

01:09:19.320 I literally felt like I was high almost.

01:09:21.920 Like it was like I was high on life and like,

01:09:24.300 I was just,

01:09:25.040 I'd be laughing.

01:09:25.760 I had joy.

01:09:26.900 All I want to do is read my Bible and pray.

01:09:29.820 And it just,

01:09:31.060 I mean,

01:09:31.260 it just took off really.

01:09:32.340 Like it just,

01:09:32.980 it,

01:09:33.560 I was there for two months in this cocoon of Jesus and all,

01:09:37.280 that's all I wanted to do.

01:09:38.480 It was like everything in my life made sense.

01:09:40.620 Like,

01:09:41.260 like I started knowing like,

01:09:42.900 Oh,

01:09:43.020 you have a purpose.

01:09:44.160 Just everything came together.

01:09:45.940 And so basically what happened though,

01:09:47.660 is my lawyer was like,

01:09:48.660 you're,

01:09:48.880 you're looking at like a year or I mean,

01:09:50.540 he said,

01:09:51.000 you're just staying here.

01:09:51.860 Your low end is 18 months.

01:09:53.460 You're,

01:09:53.740 you're probably looking at like two,

01:09:55.080 two years or so.

01:09:55.780 Like I was 18 months to three years or something was the guidelines.

01:09:58.700 Yeah.

01:09:59.360 So he said,

01:09:59.820 get comfortable.

01:10:01.220 And I,

01:10:01.780 I didn't care.

01:10:02.440 I am comfortable.

01:10:03.460 I was,

01:10:03.860 I really was.

01:10:04.640 And I remember my mom came and she said,

01:10:05.940 you know,

01:10:06.080 I'm going to get a bond.

01:10:06.740 And I said,

01:10:07.000 praise God.

01:10:07.560 I said,

01:10:07.980 you know,

01:10:08.280 I said,

01:10:08.740 you know,

01:10:09.500 like I said,

01:10:10.080 mom,

01:10:10.360 I met Jesus.

01:10:11.040 He's real,

01:10:11.480 you know?

01:10:11.800 And,

01:10:11.980 and so I was like dead serious in this,

01:10:14.920 like I was full and fully in love.

01:10:17.500 I met him,

01:10:18.260 you know,

01:10:18.520 like it was like every time I would call on his name,

01:10:20.580 I would just,

01:10:21.160 it was,

01:10:22.020 and I'm not going to lie.

01:10:22.840 Like,

01:10:23.140 and I,

01:10:23.720 I used it like a drug.

01:10:25.400 Like while I was there that first like month,

01:10:27.400 I really would like,

01:10:28.440 I'd be like,

01:10:28.720 Oh,

01:10:28.800 I need to pray to Jesus.

01:10:29.780 I could feel this,

01:10:30.580 this joy.

01:10:31.180 Right.

01:10:31.500 And that's how it was.

01:10:33.040 And,

01:10:33.060 and so I was just getting this change like radically.

01:10:37.540 And I remember one night I prayed and I said,

01:10:39.060 Lord,

01:10:39.320 I said,

01:10:39.740 if you get me out of here,

01:10:40.800 I said,

01:10:41.120 I'll pray for every person I see.

01:10:42.780 I said,

01:10:43.220 I'll do whatever you want me to do.

01:10:44.620 I said,

01:10:45.240 I'm,

01:10:45.620 I'm 100% in.

01:10:47.320 And I,

01:10:47.720 and I said,

01:10:48.240 you don't owe me anything.

01:10:49.380 Like I,

01:10:49.820 I made this bed.

01:10:51.120 I get it,

01:10:51.920 you know,

01:10:52.440 but that'd be cool.

01:10:53.620 Right.

01:10:53.880 I said,

01:10:54.140 it'd be cool.

01:10:54.500 Lord,

01:10:54.780 if you get me a Christian halfway house so I can bond out so I can look good for court,

01:10:58.720 at least,

01:10:59.120 you know,

01:10:59.380 I'll still do the time,

01:11:01.380 so like a week later,

01:11:03.460 my lawyer comes in.

01:11:04.980 He's like,

01:11:05.280 Hey,

01:11:05.420 I got a ticket out of here for you.

01:11:07.120 I got this Christian halfway house.

01:11:08.760 He said,

01:11:09.380 he said,

01:11:10.200 you get a bed to bed transfer.

01:11:11.500 It's a six month program.

01:11:12.960 If you complete it,

01:11:13.980 you know,

01:11:14.260 the judges will probably work with you.

01:11:16.160 And so I did that.

01:11:17.800 And in that time,

01:11:18.900 it was like my relationship with God just took a whole new,

01:11:23.140 like a whole,

01:11:23.900 it just kept growing.

01:11:25.120 And I remember knowing like,

01:11:28.100 if I don't stick to this with everything I have,

01:11:30.540 I'm going to go back to what I was doing.

01:11:33.120 And so I was in another state.

01:11:34.440 I didn't tell anyone was home.

01:11:36.260 And so,

01:11:36.480 yeah,

01:11:36.660 I mean,

01:11:36.980 and then a year later I go to court and the judge basically was like,

01:11:41.500 look,

01:11:41.760 there's no point of locking up again.

01:11:43.280 My PO loved me.

01:11:44.120 So she's writing good reviews.

01:11:45.500 It's like,

01:11:46.660 I'm in a halfway house,

01:11:48.340 you know,

01:11:48.660 like I have my job,

01:11:49.660 everything is.

01:11:51.120 And so that's the,

01:11:52.440 so you,

01:11:53.300 then you come to the end of that.

01:11:56.600 And is that it?

01:11:57.540 Is that happy,

01:11:58.420 happily ever after?

01:11:59.300 You don't do drugs.

01:12:00.420 You don't,

01:12:01.540 you know,

01:12:02.420 commit crimes or anything.

01:12:03.340 I guess you,

01:12:03.740 I guess your,

01:12:04.280 your crimes were all drug related.

01:12:05.660 So it's not like you were going and burglarizing.

01:12:07.420 Yeah.

01:12:07.660 Houses or anything.

01:12:09.280 But is that it?

01:12:10.220 That's the end of the story?

01:12:11.620 No,

01:12:11.940 no,

01:12:12.480 no.

01:12:12.820 That's the,

01:12:13.420 the,

01:12:14.600 you know,

01:12:15.120 that's,

01:12:15.400 that's so,

01:12:16.600 okay.

01:12:16.820 So I'm in this like evangelism mode,

01:12:20.840 right?

01:12:21.140 So I,

01:12:21.560 I go,

01:12:22.420 because I have that addictive like personality,

01:12:25.280 I'm all in for this Jesus stuff.

01:12:27.200 Well,

01:12:27.320 I'll tell you too,

01:12:28.180 I don't have a particularly addictive personality.

01:12:30.540 When I re,

01:12:30.940 I was an atheist for 10 years.

01:12:32.080 I reverted in my early twenties.

01:12:34.400 And after a kind of slow process of first leaving the God,

01:12:38.120 God exists.

01:12:38.620 And then,

01:12:39.400 you know,

01:12:39.680 that the Bible is real.

01:12:40.420 Christ is who he says he is.

01:12:41.660 And when it clicked though,

01:12:43.680 I had that same feeling of,

01:12:46.560 what do I do now?

01:12:48.280 Do I just have to,

01:12:49.020 I just need to tell everybody I need to,

01:12:51.840 whatever I am doing,

01:12:53.420 I need,

01:12:53.780 doesn't matter.

01:12:54.840 I need to just go.

01:12:56.660 I do.

01:12:57.920 And,

01:12:58.400 and I think this happens to all converts and reverts or many of them.

01:13:02.080 A friend of mine converted had this very numinous experience where he,

01:13:07.180 he said,

01:13:07.740 I was filled with the Holy Spirit.

01:13:09.000 I said,

01:13:09.580 how can you describe it for me?

01:13:10.640 He's like,

01:13:10.800 I can't describe it for you,

01:13:11.880 buddy.

01:13:12.280 But I'll tell you this,

01:13:13.540 it,

01:13:13.760 it,

01:13:14.240 when it happened to me,

01:13:15.000 I was just totally bowled over.

01:13:16.300 And my first prayer was,

01:13:17.300 Lord,

01:13:17.560 please don't make me a Jesus freak.

01:13:19.860 He said,

01:13:20.360 please don't.

01:13:20.880 But you just feel,

01:13:22.280 and it's funny in that you're,

01:13:27.120 you've got the zeal of a convert.

01:13:28.800 So all you want to do is go out and talk about it,

01:13:30.880 but you are probably rather immature in your faith at this point because it's so new.

01:13:36.820 And so in a way you're the best person to go evangelize,

01:13:40.120 but in a way you're like the worst person to go evangelize because you just don't,

01:13:43.080 you just haven't been doing it.

01:13:44.260 You know,

01:13:44.480 it's not in your muscle memory exactly yet.

01:13:46.620 And so,

01:13:47.360 and if you have an addictive personality,

01:13:48.600 I'm sure it's that times 10.

01:13:50.580 Yeah.

01:13:51.300 No,

01:13:51.580 that's,

01:13:51.820 that's basically what it was.

01:13:52.920 I was addicted to reading my Bible.

01:13:54.540 I was addicted to,

01:13:55.260 to praying and worshiping.

01:13:56.800 And I was addicted to telling people about Jesus.

01:13:58.700 That's exactly what it was.

01:14:00.700 And so that went on though for a while.

01:14:02.740 That was my life to the point where,

01:14:04.560 I mean,

01:14:04.760 honestly,

01:14:05.200 like I,

01:14:05.600 there was a point where that first year I didn't,

01:14:08.760 I worked as little as possible at a labor finders,

01:14:12.160 you know what I mean?

01:14:12.740 As a,

01:14:13.180 at a temp agency,

01:14:14.080 maybe like $50 a day,

01:14:15.660 just enough to pay rent for my,

01:14:17.100 my halfway house.

01:14:18.020 And I would spend all my free time going and praying for people and evangelizing.

01:14:21.320 Like,

01:14:21.440 yeah,

01:14:21.540 I treated it like a job.

01:14:22.760 And so I'd spend my whole day praying and then I'd go pray for people,

01:14:25.660 come home,

01:14:26.060 pray,

01:14:26.360 go out.

01:14:26.800 And I did that for a while.

01:14:27.900 And then,

01:14:28.200 so basically what happened was I got married a little over a year after getting saved.

01:14:34.300 The girl that was taking me to church ended up being my wife.

01:14:38.060 It's convenient.

01:14:38.740 Yeah.

01:14:39.340 So that like invited another level of like just life responsibility.

01:14:45.540 And so then I had to kind of change how I was moving.

01:14:50.200 And then I'd say a year after that,

01:14:53.240 it was like,

01:14:54.220 I started reassessing everything.

01:14:55.760 And basically what I mean by that is I started to not feel that like Jesus high every time I prayed.

01:15:02.440 Yeah.

01:15:02.540 I started to not get those,

01:15:04.240 you know,

01:15:04.580 I always joke around,

01:15:05.360 say the best intercessors are a newborn again believer.

01:15:08.140 Because it's like when I first got saved,

01:15:10.420 every prayer was getting answered,

01:15:11.940 like boom,

01:15:12.600 boom,

01:15:12.940 boom.

01:15:13.760 And it was nice.

01:15:15.200 And then it got to the point where it was like,

01:15:17.120 I had to wait and nose or whatever.

01:15:19.060 Yeah.

01:15:19.400 I explained that to myself because there was,

01:15:22.060 when I reverted in,

01:15:23.580 in those early years,

01:15:25.180 you know,

01:15:27.740 it's weird.

01:15:28.860 It's really weird how palpable it all is,

01:15:32.360 how,

01:15:32.560 how just real it is all the time.

01:15:35.960 And now looking back on it,

01:15:38.380 these things still happen.

01:15:39.600 You know,

01:15:40.200 everything is rich in meaning and the world is teeming in miracles.

01:15:43.480 But I,

01:15:44.680 I look back on it and I think,

01:15:46.300 oh,

01:15:46.540 I guess I just really needed that.

01:15:48.960 I sometimes think it's God saying,

01:15:51.120 Hey,

01:15:51.280 you stupid idiot.

01:15:52.840 Why don't you get it?

01:15:54.920 And,

01:15:55.160 and then after a certain amount of time,

01:15:57.320 you don't need that as much anymore.

01:15:59.340 Yeah.

01:15:59.640 You know,

01:16:00.060 yeah.

01:16:00.760 Yeah.

01:16:01.040 That's the process of maturing,

01:16:02.300 right?

01:16:02.560 It's like,

01:16:03.200 yeah.

01:16:03.840 Yeah.

01:16:04.060 And I think that's what it was,

01:16:05.160 was like,

01:16:05.920 I was used to God being so on me kind of.

01:16:09.880 And then it started to feel a lot more distant.

01:16:11.780 It started to feel a lot more like faith.

01:16:13.480 And,

01:16:13.720 and so I started to basically just really get real analytical.

01:16:17.900 I started to,

01:16:19.140 I got out of that childlike faith of just believing and just being.

01:16:22.780 And I started to watch a lot of like atheists talk about stuff.

01:16:28.440 I started to just,

01:16:29.480 I was just questioning like,

01:16:31.040 cause it was like,

01:16:31.860 basically I got to this point where I was like,

01:16:33.180 all right,

01:16:33.300 I know Jesus is real.

01:16:35.200 I said,

01:16:35.640 how can I,

01:16:36.360 I don't like,

01:16:36.860 I feel like I'm starting to get arrogant.

01:16:38.540 Like,

01:16:38.940 you know,

01:16:39.220 cause I'm telling people I'm out here preaching Jesus.

01:16:41.220 I'm telling people they need to repent of sins.

01:16:42.940 I'm,

01:16:43.260 I'm being that guy and I believe it.

01:16:46.020 I,

01:16:46.340 you know,

01:16:46.580 I believe it for me,

01:16:47.520 but I'd say,

01:16:47.900 how do I know it's only for me?

01:16:49.240 What if there was other ways for other people?

01:16:51.900 Like,

01:16:52.160 you know,

01:16:52.500 how,

01:16:52.780 like,

01:16:53.000 am I?

01:16:53.260 The idea of the technical term is indifferentism.

01:16:56.300 What if,

01:16:56.520 what if all religions are pretty much the same man,

01:17:00.040 you know,

01:17:00.480 and you worship this part of the elephant and I worship this,

01:17:03.720 whatever,

01:17:04.020 you know,

01:17:04.200 that's,

01:17:04.500 it was a very popular idea.

01:17:05.800 It's extremely wrong,

01:17:07.380 but it's,

01:17:07.720 but it is a very popular idea.

01:17:08.920 So you're exploring this and you're saying,

01:17:10.580 well,

01:17:11.240 you know,

01:17:11.460 maybe,

01:17:12.580 maybe what I'm doing is just one,

01:17:13.800 one thing among many that we could do.

01:17:15.760 Yeah.

01:17:15.980 that's,

01:17:16.340 well,

01:17:16.500 and it was more of like,

01:17:18.840 Jesus is the truth,

01:17:20.060 the way,

01:17:20.420 the life,

01:17:21.400 but what if there's more to what's been presented?

01:17:24.580 Hmm.

01:17:25.140 You know,

01:17:25.520 like,

01:17:25.800 what if there's more to this than just what I've been finding in church?

01:17:29.200 Uh,

01:17:29.460 you know,

01:17:29.920 I was,

01:17:30.280 do you mean more in that other religions are true or do you mean more in that

01:17:35.020 Christianity is about more than this?

01:17:37.220 Christianity is about more than this.

01:17:38.780 Yeah.

01:17:39.080 So it was kind of like,

01:17:40.140 maybe there's more to this than what we,

01:17:41.720 we think.

01:17:42.260 And I started getting,

01:17:43.440 looking into more like early church and,

01:17:45.180 and started just,

01:17:46.720 just look at this research,

01:17:47.920 everything.

01:17:48.560 I mean,

01:17:48.820 I put my faith up on the altar kind of,

01:17:50.820 and just was like,

01:17:51.600 just trying to,

01:17:52.140 it was like almost like I was trying to crush my faith,

01:17:54.100 you know,

01:17:54.480 in a,

01:17:54.860 in a,

01:17:55.140 in a honest way of like,

01:17:56.480 look,

01:17:56.700 God,

01:17:56.900 this is where I'm at.

01:17:58.220 And,

01:17:58.600 uh,

01:17:58.780 and then I started to get,

01:17:59.820 I guess,

01:18:00.160 bitter.

01:18:00.720 That's what really started to happen was I started to get bitter because I,

01:18:03.020 I was praying for people when I was doing,

01:18:04.800 you know,

01:18:05.920 God's work,

01:18:06.660 I thought,

01:18:07.300 and I started to get prideful and feel like,

01:18:10.040 well,

01:18:10.380 look,

01:18:10.640 God,

01:18:10.780 I'm doing this,

01:18:11.340 this,

01:18:11.560 this.

01:18:12.120 And it wasn't like what you're not doing something for me.

01:18:14.580 It was,

01:18:15.260 why aren't you helping them?

01:18:16.580 Like,

01:18:16.960 that's kind of how I started to feel because I,

01:18:18.760 you know,

01:18:19.000 I,

01:18:19.240 I'd come from addiction.

01:18:20.080 So I was trying to help other addicts.

01:18:21.700 I'm trying to help.

01:18:22.500 And it was like,

01:18:23.760 you know,

01:18:24.120 I was trying to lead them to Jesus and it wasn't working the way I thought it

01:18:27.540 should.

01:18:27.920 And so I started getting prideful.

01:18:29.680 I started thinking I was God's,

01:18:31.260 you know,

01:18:31.480 boss almost.

01:18:32.200 And,

01:18:32.560 and that's kind of,

01:18:33.640 cause I,

01:18:33.980 you know,

01:18:34.220 I'm like,

01:18:34.600 well,

01:18:34.680 I've been doing this for two years.

01:18:36.060 Um,

01:18:37.540 I don't know what's really coming of it.

01:18:39.200 My life has changed,

01:18:40.160 but I said,

01:18:40.920 I want to see other people's lives change too.

01:18:42.880 Or I don't feel,

01:18:43.700 you know,

01:18:43.960 it's like,

01:18:44.260 I don't feel like I could really be confident in this if it's not

01:18:48.100 producing fruit for other people.

01:18:50.440 And so I started,

01:18:51.820 I found this,

01:18:52.600 this,

01:18:53.140 uh,

01:18:53.320 in my research one day,

01:18:54.360 I found this,

01:18:55.040 this,

01:18:55.360 um,

01:18:55.680 article about,

01:18:56.480 uh,

01:18:56.760 this mystic group that would basically took mushrooms as a form of,

01:19:02.900 um,

01:19:04.960 basically connecting to God.

01:19:06.100 Like it was normal.

01:19:07.140 And that's what the Bible referred to as manna.

01:19:09.580 So it was this rabbit hole.

01:19:10.740 They said that,

01:19:11.380 they said that manna was,

01:19:12.880 it was mushrooms.

01:19:13.700 It was shrooms.

01:19:14.780 Wow.

01:19:15.400 They said it popped up every morning.

01:19:16.920 Like,

01:19:17.540 yeah,

01:19:17.900 I don't,

01:19:18.180 when I read that passage about the man,

01:19:19.820 it doesn't exactly resemble shrooms to me,

01:19:22.060 but that's very funny that they're saying this because with mushrooms in

01:19:26.480 particular,

01:19:26.840 but all of it,

01:19:27.320 the empty acid,

01:19:28.200 all the psychedelic stuff,

01:19:29.560 there is this weird culture where if you see a heroin addict on the street,

01:19:35.360 you say,

01:19:35.800 Oh,

01:19:35.880 there's a junkie.

01:19:36.920 There's another bum.

01:19:38.360 Hope he doesn't kill himself.

01:19:39.800 But then someone says,

01:19:40.820 Oh,

01:19:40.960 I do shrooms all the time.

01:19:42.500 You say,

01:19:42.720 wow,

01:19:43.320 you must be so spiritual.

01:19:45.560 Wow.

01:19:46.200 And it's just like,

01:19:46.760 you're both poisoning yourselves.

01:19:48.480 That's the,

01:19:48.900 that is the,

01:19:49.420 uh,

01:19:49.720 the,

01:19:50.020 the aesthetic of it though,

01:19:51.500 right?

01:19:51.700 Yeah.

01:19:52.140 Yeah.

01:19:52.460 Yeah.

01:19:53.480 Um,

01:19:54.380 no,

01:19:54.720 for me,

01:19:55.040 it was like,

01:19:55.840 I still had these memories of positive from it.

01:19:58.980 So I still,

01:19:59.580 at that point,

01:20:00.180 I hadn't connected the dots to,

01:20:02.740 this was part of the problem.

01:20:04.300 In my mind,

01:20:06.020 I was the problem because I was on drugs.

01:20:07.780 So now I'm starting to think that seed is planted.

01:20:10.380 Right.

01:20:10.620 That was a prefiguring of your enlightened,

01:20:13.480 of your true enlightenment,

01:20:14.720 which is actually in this relationship with your savior.

01:20:17.720 Yeah.

01:20:18.120 And it,

01:20:19.500 it basically just started,

01:20:20.620 and I didn't do anything with it for a while.

01:20:22.080 It started to kind of just brew under the surface.

01:20:24.560 And I said,

01:20:25.160 you know what,

01:20:25.500 Josh?

01:20:25.720 I said,

01:20:26.500 maybe because you were on heroin and all this other stuff,

01:20:29.320 what if now that you're clean,

01:20:30.840 you haven't done hard drugs in a few years,

01:20:33.640 um,

01:20:34.700 maybe now you can take mushrooms.

01:20:36.220 It's natural.

01:20:36.720 I'm not talking about acid.

01:20:37.700 I'm talking about mushrooms because they're natural.

01:20:39.740 And now you can probably connect with Jesus in a better way.

01:20:42.600 You know,

01:20:42.900 this relationship isn't as supernatural as it was in the beginning.

01:20:46.020 Yeah.

01:20:46.220 You're losing your,

01:20:47.200 yeah,

01:20:47.400 your,

01:20:47.540 your tolerance is growing.

01:20:48.860 Let's say.

01:20:49.220 Yeah.

01:20:49.360 Yeah.

01:20:49.540 You're not feeling that high.

01:20:51.520 Yup.

01:20:51.940 And so I said,

01:20:53.340 maybe mushrooms will do the trick.

01:20:55.240 And,

01:20:55.520 and not only for that,

01:20:58.020 but also maybe I can get some answers for other people because I'm encountering this question all the time about people doing psychedelics and seeing it be a thing.

01:21:06.240 Yup.

01:21:06.420 I said,

01:21:06.880 you know,

01:21:07.140 God,

01:21:07.420 my,

01:21:07.620 my heart is to like,

01:21:08.700 like I put my heart before God of like,

01:21:11.040 look,

01:21:11.260 like this is where I'm at.

01:21:12.660 I said,

01:21:12.940 I kind of feel like doing it.

01:21:14.080 And,

01:21:14.420 and,

01:21:14.740 you know,

01:21:15.040 I said,

01:21:15.380 worst case scenario,

01:21:16.120 I find out it's not,

01:21:16.980 it's not good.

01:21:17.880 And,

01:21:18.300 you know,

01:21:18.900 you know,

01:21:19.640 I don't do it anymore.

01:21:21.240 Yeah.

01:21:22.380 Well,

01:21:22.760 the thing about it is that,

01:21:24.140 you know,

01:21:24.480 and I say,

01:21:25.000 I say this as,

01:21:26.180 as humble as possible.

01:21:27.200 Like I,

01:21:27.980 when I say I was in it,

01:21:29.320 I mean like I really was sold out.

01:21:31.020 I was living right.

01:21:32.180 I wasn't like a Christian that was dabbling in sin and the world and going to church.

01:21:37.340 I mean,

01:21:37.560 I literally was,

01:21:38.260 my life was dedicated to this.

01:21:39.900 Like that's all I thought about is all I did.

01:21:41.940 And,

01:21:42.080 you know,

01:21:42.500 like I didn't have a life that was my life.

01:21:44.620 And so like,

01:21:46.000 and so it wasn't like,

01:21:47.960 Oh,

01:21:48.040 I was already slipping away or something.

01:21:50.300 And so basically months pass.

01:21:54.560 And so one night I'd go to my friend's house and we're going to make music.

01:21:58.780 And while,

01:21:59.340 you know,

01:21:59.520 he's loading up the beat and everything.

01:22:01.880 And this was a friend of mine that it was like the one of like two friends that I had that,

01:22:05.960 the old friends that I didn't completely cut off.

01:22:07.880 But it wasn't,

01:22:09.060 you know,

01:22:09.280 it was more just like I would make music with them.

01:22:11.080 I still loved them.

01:22:12.080 So it's like,

01:22:12.940 I'd keep my distance,

01:22:13.980 but show up.

01:22:14.860 And so anyways,

01:22:15.940 he,

01:22:16.080 he dumps out his backpack of chocolate mushrooms all over the,

01:22:19.820 right over the bed,

01:22:20.460 right in front of me.

01:22:21.560 And he basically was like,

01:22:23.380 here,

01:22:23.800 you know what I mean?

01:22:24.360 Here,

01:22:24.580 try one.

01:22:25.280 You know what I mean?

01:22:25.780 And now the thoughts of what was,

01:22:28.400 I was thinking the last few months pop up.

01:22:30.860 And so I said,

01:22:32.180 you know what,

01:22:32.660 Josh?

01:22:32.920 I said,

01:22:33.120 I'm tired of the internally.

01:22:34.240 I'm like,

01:22:34.700 you know what?

01:22:35.020 I'm tired of being fear with this.

01:22:36.920 I just want to face this.

01:22:38.060 I don't like the fear that like,

01:22:39.200 there's a,

01:22:39.560 there's this fear of I shouldn't do this.

01:22:42.020 And I didn't like that.

01:22:43.040 You know,

01:22:43.360 like I said,

01:22:44.420 you know,

01:22:44.580 I don't like fear.

01:22:45.300 I'm going to confront this.

01:22:46.100 I'm going to take it.

01:22:46.640 I said,

01:22:46.880 it's now or never.

01:22:47.500 I'm not going to sit here and think about it anymore.

01:22:49.200 I was tired of processing it in my mind.

01:22:51.560 I just wanted to try it.

01:22:52.320 I said,

01:22:53.180 you know,

01:22:53.860 people,

01:22:54.160 people get so sick of the anxiety and the hemming and hawing and the moral conscience telling you,

01:23:00.120 no,

01:23:00.280 no,

01:23:00.460 no,

01:23:00.840 that you think,

01:23:01.360 well,

01:23:01.880 here's one way I can shut up that moral conscience.

01:23:03.720 I'm just going to do it.

01:23:04.980 And then I won't have that anxiety of anticipation anymore.

01:23:08.280 Yeah.

01:23:08.860 Yeah.

01:23:09.160 That was,

01:23:09.480 I think that's probably what it was.

01:23:10.540 It was like,

01:23:10.940 you know what?

01:23:11.340 If you're going to do it tonight,

01:23:12.200 it's just going to bother you.

01:23:13.140 So,

01:23:13.540 yeah,

01:23:14.060 so I did it.

01:23:15.360 And I,

01:23:16.000 I,

01:23:16.560 I ate the,

01:23:17.040 it was a,

01:23:17.480 you know,

01:23:17.780 eighth of mushrooms.

01:23:18.640 And just for context,

01:23:20.180 like that was the normal dose that I would take.

01:23:22.440 That was like a normal,

01:23:23.480 like go-to dose.

01:23:25.220 It's definitely on the higher end as far as like when you're looking at microdosing and stuff,

01:23:28.800 it's,

01:23:28.980 it's a lot lower than that.

01:23:30.240 But I had taken much larger doses too.

01:23:32.540 I had taken,

01:23:33.040 you know,

01:23:33.420 double,

01:23:33.800 double everything.

01:23:34.780 Yeah.

01:23:35.040 Yeah.

01:23:35.360 And so,

01:23:36.000 so to me,

01:23:36.540 it was like,

01:23:36.960 this is kind of mild,

01:23:38.220 right?

01:23:38.480 That's how I'm thinking.

01:23:41.040 So I take it and it starts off good.

01:23:43.280 The first 20 minutes,

01:23:44.240 I'm just getting in my,

01:23:45.980 my vibe and,

01:23:47.120 you know,

01:23:47.420 and just listening to the music and it's all good vibes and good thoughts.

01:23:51.160 And I'm happy.

01:23:51.880 And it's going to be good.

01:23:53.460 And then,

01:23:53.840 and then at one point my friend says,

01:23:55.400 Hey,

01:23:55.740 my,

01:23:56.700 these guys want to go to the bar.

01:23:57.780 Do you want to come?

01:23:58.300 I said,

01:23:58.920 no.

01:23:59.160 I said,

01:23:59.420 what do you,

01:23:59.740 I just,

01:24:00.260 when I was eight,

01:24:00.880 I don't want to go to the bar.

01:24:01.960 And so he said,

01:24:02.480 well,

01:24:02.580 I'm going to go.

01:24:02.960 You can sit here if you want.

01:24:03.820 That's fine.

01:24:04.040 Is that cool?

01:24:05.120 I said,

01:24:06.100 all right,

01:24:06.520 I guess I'm stuck here now,

01:24:08.320 you know,

01:24:08.560 kind of thing.

01:24:09.140 And,

01:24:09.320 and so he leaves and,

01:24:12.580 and,

01:24:12.720 and this stuff,

01:24:13.460 it takes like probably 30 minutes to kick in.

01:24:15.820 So in the meantime,

01:24:16.760 you start kind of feeling your stomach will start to turn.

01:24:19.000 And there's like this,

01:24:19.940 this pre almost anxiety kind of thing.

01:24:22.200 Like you feel it kind of starting to creep up on you.

01:24:25.320 And so I already had to feel that.

01:24:26.740 So I said,

01:24:27.120 we're about to go into this.

01:24:29.520 And so my friend,

01:24:30.920 he walks out the door.

01:24:32.260 The second he walked out the door,

01:24:34.420 it was like that feeling of sleep paralysis,

01:24:36.940 the feeling of like demons and evil walks in the room.

01:24:40.020 It was like this transfer.

01:24:41.020 Like he left.

01:24:41.740 And it was the,

01:24:42.560 the first thing I noticed was if I feel like I just got set up unknowingly,

01:24:46.040 I feel like my friend just set me up and he was used as a vessel.

01:24:48.840 And had no idea,

01:24:50.100 completely not in his mind,

01:24:51.300 knowing what he was doing,

01:24:52.320 but I just got set up here.

01:24:53.840 Like,

01:24:54.180 which you did.

01:24:54.940 I a hundred percent.

01:24:55.780 And that,

01:24:56.040 and that was so clear.

01:24:57.020 You know what I mean?

01:24:57.560 Like I was like,

01:24:58.280 wow,

01:24:58.460 I just got set up.

01:25:00.000 And so he walks out and evil just walks in.

01:25:04.260 Mind you,

01:25:04.800 I have had demonic encounters as,

01:25:06.720 as a Christian at this point,

01:25:08.440 just,

01:25:08.860 just based off doing God's work and having demons come and attack me and stuff.

01:25:12.520 I had cast out demons and all that kind of stuff.

01:25:14.500 So I know this presence.

01:25:16.160 I'm still like,

01:25:17.220 so a hundred percent sober minded.

01:25:18.840 Like I'm a 100% in my rational mind.

01:25:21.760 I feel it tangibly come in the room.

01:25:24.000 I said,

01:25:24.400 Oh,

01:25:24.520 I know that presence.

01:25:26.020 And so I said,

01:25:27.040 Oh no,

01:25:27.300 this isn't good.

01:25:28.140 And so,

01:25:28.680 but I'm like,

01:25:29.340 all right,

01:25:29.540 I know how mushrooms work.

01:25:31.780 I'm going to stay positive.

01:25:34.300 Keep my mind right.

01:25:35.460 This,

01:25:35.740 you know,

01:25:35.940 if I feed into this,

01:25:37.220 it's going to get worse.

01:25:37.840 I started ignoring it.

01:25:38.640 I said,

01:25:38.820 I'm good.

01:25:39.640 And,

01:25:40.080 and I go into the bathroom and I'm talking,

01:25:42.780 I'm cheering.

01:25:43.100 I'm giving myself a pep talk in the mirror.

01:25:44.680 And I said,

01:25:45.480 I said,

01:25:45.820 Josh,

01:25:46.260 I said,

01:25:46.580 you took mushrooms.

01:25:47.360 I said,

01:25:47.680 it's all right.

01:25:48.260 You're going to be okay.

01:25:48.960 I said,

01:25:49.160 you can't die.

01:25:50.300 And the second I said,

01:25:51.240 you can't die.

01:25:52.360 I heard a voice speak in my heart the same way.

01:25:54.560 I always have heard God speak to me.

01:25:56.860 Cross check everything.

01:25:58.260 It says,

01:25:59.040 who says I can't take your life whenever I want?

01:26:01.000 Who says like,

01:26:01.840 like,

01:26:02.440 and it wasn't in a way of,

01:26:03.720 of like anger.

01:26:05.500 It was,

01:26:06.100 it was a checking of my pride.

01:26:07.540 Like who says,

01:26:08.280 I just can't stop your heart whenever I want.

01:26:10.100 Like,

01:26:10.560 what do you mean you can't die?

01:26:11.800 I could just do it now.

01:26:12.680 Right.

01:26:12.780 Like for no reason you can just drop.

01:26:14.660 Right.

01:26:14.920 So it was like,

01:26:15.880 Oh,

01:26:16.760 I could die,

01:26:17.620 you know,

01:26:17.920 like this could be it.

01:26:19.220 And,

01:26:19.260 and,

01:26:19.480 and so then I started being like,

01:26:22.120 Oh wow,

01:26:22.480 this isn't good.

01:26:23.200 I started feeling like,

01:26:24.420 all right,

01:26:24.620 I need to start repenting.

01:26:26.000 So I started praying.

01:26:27.440 I,

01:26:27.680 and it was like,

01:26:28.200 as soon as I started to pray and started to ask God to help me,

01:26:31.120 it just,

01:26:32.580 I felt like I just was getting just like a dark cloud was just coming around me.

01:26:36.680 I could tangibly feel it.

01:26:37.880 I could feel like closing in on me.

01:26:40.000 And I'm like,

01:26:40.700 but I'm,

01:26:41.100 I'm still in this like state of like,

01:26:43.200 it's going to be okay.

01:26:44.820 You're good.

01:26:45.380 And I'm like,

01:26:45.980 you know what,

01:26:46.300 Jesus,

01:26:46.580 forgive me.

01:26:47.980 You know how we think like,

01:26:49.240 Oh,

01:26:49.600 I messed up.

01:26:50.300 Oh Lord,

01:26:50.600 forgive me.

01:26:50.960 And we're good.

01:26:51.540 Yeah.

01:26:51.780 Yeah.

01:26:52.120 So it's like,

01:26:52.780 forgiveness doesn't equate to consequence.

01:26:54.300 So it's like,

01:26:55.240 right.

01:26:55.480 The consequences were still there.

01:26:57.060 And then I realized,

01:26:57.700 Oh no,

01:26:58.320 I opened this door.

01:26:59.740 I know better.

01:27:00.420 I'm not a baby.

01:27:02.760 I'm,

01:27:02.960 I'm,

01:27:03.360 you know,

01:27:03.600 a young child and God,

01:27:05.000 I knew better.

01:27:05.860 And so now it's all hitting me like,

01:27:07.580 Oh,

01:27:08.660 what'd you do?

01:27:09.380 Like this is,

01:27:10.100 and you just opened this door.

01:27:11.640 This is,

01:27:12.060 and you're going to be stuck in this place because now I know I already have my

01:27:15.000 spiritual eyes open,

01:27:16.420 sober minded in the natural.

01:27:18.620 So now that I'm spiritually awake and not dead in sin.

01:27:23.260 Now,

01:27:23.700 when I actually opened that veil,

01:27:25.280 it's not going to be nothing.

01:27:27.580 It's going to be clear.

01:27:28.320 I'm going to know what it is now.

01:27:30.820 And so I started praying and I'm just feeling like death encompassed me.

01:27:34.660 And that's what it talks about in Psalm 18,

01:27:36.320 death encompassed me,

01:27:37.220 you know,

01:27:37.620 and that's what it feels like.

01:27:39.620 And I'm,

01:27:40.660 I called my wife and I said,

01:27:42.380 she was on out with friends at dinner.

01:27:44.200 I said,

01:27:44.540 you need to come get me.

01:27:45.420 She had no idea what I was doing.

01:27:46.660 I didn't even,

01:27:47.220 I wasn't planning this.

01:27:48.120 Right.

01:27:48.240 I can't imagine she would have approved.

01:27:49.660 Yeah.

01:27:49.880 And she says,

01:27:51.760 she doesn't know.

01:27:52.680 And it's starting to get worse as before,

01:27:55.800 like leading up to when she got there,

01:27:57.420 it started to feel like something was pooling.

01:27:59.380 Like sort of feel like my spirit was wanting to go somewhere.

01:28:03.480 I can't explain it.

01:28:04.520 It's like,

01:28:05.040 it felt like the light was flickering within,

01:28:08.080 like,

01:28:08.800 it was like someone's pooling me somewhere.

01:28:10.700 And I,

01:28:10.860 and so it was like,

01:28:12.420 she,

01:28:12.820 by the time she gets there,

01:28:14.440 I'm in the,

01:28:14.900 I'm not able to really function at this point.

01:28:17.340 I couldn't breathe well.

01:28:19.560 And so she's trying to talk.

01:28:20.960 Like she thinks this is just normal Josh coming in the car.

01:28:23.380 Like,

01:28:23.560 Hey,

01:28:23.800 why could anyone,

01:28:24.640 and I said,

01:28:25.280 I can't talk.

01:28:26.000 And I said,

01:28:26.280 just pray.

01:28:26.940 I said,

01:28:27.240 just pray for me.

01:28:27.740 I didn't even have time to explain to her what was going on.

01:28:30.120 By this point,

01:28:31.160 I was,

01:28:31.720 I couldn't breathe.

01:28:32.680 It was like,

01:28:32.940 I was,

01:28:33.260 and she's even like,

01:28:34.220 she's like,

01:28:34.720 what,

01:28:34.980 what's wrong?

01:28:35.580 Like,

01:28:35.680 cause I'm like,

01:28:36.160 I'm gasping for breath and I'm feeling my body,

01:28:40.640 like go get,

01:28:41.340 go in and out.

01:28:42.000 It's like,

01:28:42.420 I'm here talking to you.

01:28:43.660 And the next thing you know,

01:28:44.600 it's like,

01:28:45.000 boom,

01:28:45.320 snapped into like a dream room.

01:28:46.940 It's like,

01:28:47.300 like in and out,

01:28:48.420 like in and out of consciousness.

01:28:50.200 And then,

01:28:50.760 but as it would be a black void.

01:28:52.160 So we're going through this whole car ride.

01:28:53.860 And every now and then I would try to like tell her,

01:28:55.500 like,

01:28:55.600 just,

01:28:55.920 I can't talk right now.

01:28:56.740 You know,

01:28:57.180 I'm like over like 30 minutes.

01:28:59.100 I gave her the story.

01:28:59.860 Like,

01:29:00.120 Oh,

01:29:00.200 I took mushrooms.

01:29:00.880 All right.

01:29:01.220 You know?

01:29:01.860 And so I get home.

01:29:03.500 And by the time I get home,

01:29:04.620 it was just full,

01:29:05.540 like it was just fully on.

01:29:08.200 I run into my room.

01:29:09.720 I lay on the floor.

01:29:10.860 And at this point I'm just getting pulled.

01:29:12.440 Like I just,

01:29:13.740 I'm feeling my soul just get pulled out of my body.

01:29:16.100 And so I'm in this dark,

01:29:17.760 like a void.

01:29:20.120 And next thing I know,

01:29:23.140 I start,

01:29:23.680 there starts to be like sight coming to it.

01:29:25.860 Cause it's just a abyss of blackness.

01:29:27.900 And so I'm sitting there and all of a sudden I realize I'm in this giant

01:29:31.540 hand.

01:29:32.680 So I'm in this hand and then I see demons right in front of me.

01:29:37.360 And it's all the same demons I've seen in that one overdose.

01:29:40.080 It's like,

01:29:40.620 like,

01:29:40.800 I don't know if they were the exact same ones,

01:29:42.300 but they look the same.

01:29:43.140 It was the same breed,

01:29:44.100 same breed.

01:29:44.800 Yeah.

01:29:45.440 And except this time there was like taller ones.

01:29:48.540 Like it was like,

01:29:49.280 they were the ones in charge.

01:29:50.340 Like they were,

01:29:50.860 they were higher ranking ones.

01:29:52.600 So I'm in this hand and now I'm in another,

01:29:55.920 another reality.

01:29:56.880 And now fears like what is going on?

01:30:00.540 Where am I?

01:30:01.340 What is the first thing that hits you is you're helpless.

01:30:05.800 That's the,

01:30:06.340 I think the first thing that really got me even before this happened,

01:30:09.720 like up to this point,

01:30:10.540 it's knowing like,

01:30:11.800 what are you going to call?

01:30:12.900 Like,

01:30:13.100 what are you going to do?

01:30:14.060 What are you,

01:30:14.420 you know,

01:30:14.700 it's not like when you're a kid,

01:30:15.800 you call your mom to help you.

01:30:17.140 And you know,

01:30:18.160 like there's nothing you can do.

01:30:19.360 The hospital can't help you.

01:30:20.640 This is,

01:30:21.020 you know what I mean?

01:30:21.580 Like this is,

01:30:22.240 there's nothing you can do right now.

01:30:24.340 So you're just helpless.

01:30:25.400 So I'm in this,

01:30:27.280 you know,

01:30:27.900 I'm in this hand and,

01:30:29.940 and I'm seeing these demons.

01:30:32.120 And so the one stands up and,

01:30:34.780 and,

01:30:35.220 and then I'm looking at my attention that once that one stands up,

01:30:38.000 I like my attention diverts.

01:30:40.800 And now it was like this,

01:30:42.060 this light tower.

01:30:43.480 Like I,

01:30:44.060 it was like this thing,

01:30:45.440 if it was just tilted up and just lights,

01:30:47.820 just with no walls,

01:30:49.380 but you could see it,

01:30:50.820 just a big light beam tower kind of thing with different colors.

01:30:53.840 And I knew that was like the kingdom of heaven.

01:30:56.320 And then I knew that I was in outer darkness of some sort.

01:30:59.160 I was in this,

01:31:00.260 this in between place.

01:31:03.280 And so now this demon stepping forward and he's presenting a case to this,

01:31:08.120 this tower.

01:31:09.560 And he said,

01:31:10.240 we're tired of this kid.

01:31:11.100 He keeps coming into our kingdom,

01:31:13.360 taking people out.

01:31:14.280 And then he came back and ate off our table.

01:31:16.680 And it hit me right then and there.

01:31:20.060 You're an evangelist.

01:31:21.000 You're winning souls for Jesus all the time.

01:31:23.380 You,

01:31:23.620 you really are coming into,

01:31:24.840 you know,

01:31:25.120 and I,

01:31:25.680 and I would,

01:31:25.840 I'd go into,

01:31:26.480 to,

01:31:26.900 you know,

01:31:27.900 wherever,

01:31:29.280 inner cities,

01:31:29.920 wherever,

01:31:30.380 any neighborhood and just preach Jesus,

01:31:32.860 talk about Jesus,

01:31:33.440 get people saved.

01:31:34.100 You know what I mean?

01:31:34.600 But you could bring a thousand people into the church and you could wind up in the bad place.

01:31:38.180 Uh-huh.

01:31:38.800 100%.

01:31:39.200 What a phrase.

01:31:41.160 He keeps taking souls at it,

01:31:43.500 you know,

01:31:43.960 helping souls out of here,

01:31:45.380 but then he comes and eats from our table.

01:31:48.060 Even Peter Kreeft,

01:31:50.560 the theologian philosopher,

01:31:54.180 he says that abortion is the demonic inversion of the Eucharist.

01:32:00.120 The Eucharist,

01:32:00.940 the priest holds up the consecrated host and says,

01:32:03.460 recites the word of our Lord,

01:32:04.400 says,

01:32:04.840 this is my body,

01:32:06.180 which will be given up for you.

01:32:07.740 And what abortion does is,

01:32:09.120 is uses the same words to a diabolically opposite end,

01:32:12.640 which is,

01:32:13.200 this is my body.

01:32:14.440 This is my body.

01:32:15.480 I'm going to,

01:32:16.240 I won't save,

01:32:17.060 I'll kill for my body.

01:32:18.860 Wow.

01:32:20.300 And even this,

01:32:21.280 this idea of,

01:32:23.420 the Eucharist is manna from heaven.

01:32:25.180 It's a,

01:32:25.500 that's,

01:32:25.780 that's what you're seeing,

01:32:27.660 the figure of the Eucharist in the manna that comes down and saves the Israelites,

01:32:31.920 gives them bread to eat.

01:32:33.480 And we,

01:32:34.220 we now have this in the Holy Communion.

01:32:35.720 And as you said earlier,

01:32:38.880 this,

01:32:39.100 this idea that,

01:32:40.640 no man,

01:32:41.840 you know,

01:32:42.300 what if the mushrooms are the,

01:32:44.700 that's kind of like the manna.

01:32:46.380 But,

01:32:47.700 the demons are telling you on this trip,

01:32:49.640 they're saying,

01:32:50.360 that's our food.

01:32:52.280 Yeah.

01:32:52.460 From our table that he's eating.

01:32:55.020 100%.

01:32:55.460 And that,

01:32:55.840 and that was,

01:32:57.560 I mean,

01:32:58.260 like that was the,

01:32:59.200 the,

01:32:59.660 the crux of the whole thing for me.

01:33:02.280 Cause at that point,

01:33:03.360 the thing about the spirit realm is you don't need a lot of words to get a lot of revelation.

01:33:07.620 And nothing is spoken.

01:33:08.840 This is all telepathically.

01:33:10.460 It's,

01:33:10.620 it's just known in the spirit.

01:33:12.080 Nothing is hidden.

01:33:12.820 All things when the,

01:33:13.780 nothing is hidden from the light,

01:33:15.480 right?

01:33:15.660 Like it,

01:33:16.000 so in the spirit,

01:33:16.620 everything is just,

01:33:17.500 it's,

01:33:17.740 it's out on the open.

01:33:18.660 You don't have money to hide behind.

01:33:19.960 You don't have a facade.

01:33:21.160 You don't have your,

01:33:22.380 your everything that you try to ignore is there,

01:33:25.120 whether you like it or not.

01:33:26.060 And it's seen.

01:33:27.160 And so it was that moment of being naked before everything.

01:33:31.860 Of me being a hypocrite in that moment,

01:33:36.320 be me backside of me,

01:33:38.100 whatever I was,

01:33:39.000 everything was there.

01:33:40.340 Oops.

01:33:41.500 You know,

01:33:42.280 oops.

01:33:43.120 And,

01:33:43.480 and now it was a matter of I'm in this hand that I can't just get out of this.

01:33:48.120 All right.

01:33:48.340 See you later guys.

01:33:49.420 You know,

01:33:49.640 it was,

01:33:50.420 it was,

01:33:50.840 this is serious.

01:33:52.140 This was,

01:33:52.680 I was in the courts of heaven.

01:33:54.660 I mean,

01:33:54.820 that's,

01:33:55.040 it was literally,

01:33:55.700 they were presenting a case against me to God.

01:33:57.960 and,

01:33:58.040 and so I'm sitting there now.

01:34:00.560 I'm freaking out in the sense that I already was feeling my body,

01:34:04.520 what was going on.

01:34:05.400 It felt like everything was shriveling up,

01:34:08.880 you know?

01:34:10.800 It's like,

01:34:11.420 you could feel your organs drying up.

01:34:13.680 Fear becomes a jacket.

01:34:15.500 You like a living thing that comes around you.

01:34:18.700 Just despair.

01:34:20.020 Just,

01:34:20.240 I mean,

01:34:20.580 every,

01:34:21.220 every negative,

01:34:22.200 like emotion feeling you could think of is there.

01:34:24.440 And then it's heightened.

01:34:25.100 And it's,

01:34:26.440 I felt like a slug.

01:34:27.560 If you pour salt on it,

01:34:28.500 I felt my life literally just getting pulled out of me,

01:34:31.000 shriveling up in,

01:34:32.020 while I'm in this hand,

01:34:33.260 I feel my breath just getting pulled out of me.

01:34:35.660 And mind you in,

01:34:36.780 in,

01:34:37.200 in real time,

01:34:39.240 you're,

01:34:39.780 you feel like you're connected to your physical body.

01:34:42.480 So I'm still like five,

01:34:44.320 10% aware of what's happening in my body.

01:34:48.000 And every,

01:34:49.000 you know,

01:34:49.380 10,

01:34:49.680 15,

01:34:49.900 my wife's freaking out,

01:34:50.880 you know,

01:34:51.140 and during this time she's freaking out and she doesn't know what to do.

01:34:53.800 She thinks,

01:34:54.640 should I call hospitals?

01:34:55.760 What should I do?

01:34:56.700 But I know what's going on.

01:34:57.860 So I'm telling her,

01:34:58.500 just pray for me.

01:34:59.080 Just keep praying.

01:34:59.700 Like,

01:34:59.980 like that.

01:35:00.460 I was like,

01:35:00.760 just pray.

01:35:01.620 And then I'd get pulled back into,

01:35:03.520 and I'd be in this reality.

01:35:04.600 And so,

01:35:05.300 because you're,

01:35:05.940 you're not in physical danger of death any more than any of us is at any given moment.

01:35:12.240 If you were on heroin or something,

01:35:13.720 you would have been in physical danger of death.

01:35:15.700 But as you said,

01:35:16.480 consciously,

01:35:16.920 you said,

01:35:17.620 these are mushrooms,

01:35:18.480 mushrooms at this dose,

01:35:19.900 they're not going to kill you.

01:35:21.780 God tells you,

01:35:22.680 well,

01:35:22.840 I can stop your heart whenever I want.

01:35:26.000 But that's,

01:35:26.660 that's different.

01:35:27.340 It's not the mushroom.

01:35:28.100 So,

01:35:28.460 you know,

01:35:29.340 if your wife had said,

01:35:30.700 hey,

01:35:30.960 you're high on heroin or something,

01:35:33.400 and,

01:35:34.620 and you said,

01:35:35.200 well,

01:35:35.260 don't call the doctors.

01:35:36.160 She probably would have just called the doctors anyway.

01:35:37.720 Right, right.

01:35:38.060 There's a poison that's going,

01:35:39.120 but,

01:35:39.420 but what you're saying is,

01:35:40.360 no,

01:35:40.520 my danger right now,

01:35:43.240 though it,

01:35:43.880 I feel it physically,

01:35:45.760 the danger that I'm in right now is a spiritual danger.

01:35:48.560 For sure.

01:35:49.360 And I mean,

01:35:49.760 to be honest with you,

01:35:50.340 to this day,

01:35:50.820 I don't know how,

01:35:51.760 like,

01:35:51.940 if it was just spiritually that I would have died,

01:35:53.780 or,

01:35:53.960 like,

01:35:54.160 it felt physical.

01:35:55.740 That's the thing.

01:35:56.580 Physically,

01:35:57.020 my body was,

01:35:57.920 was not functioning.

01:35:59.520 Like,

01:35:59.700 it felt physical.

01:36:01.340 And the reason I say that is because people get this idea that,

01:36:04.880 like,

01:36:04.980 like,

01:36:05.320 like I said,

01:36:06.060 like,

01:36:06.200 oh,

01:36:06.400 you can't die from this,

01:36:07.200 you can die from that.

01:36:08.380 There's,

01:36:08.820 you know,

01:36:09.140 this,

01:36:09.500 this spiritual realm is what is really deciding the physical realm.

01:36:13.380 So it's like,

01:36:14.200 that was a major infraction.

01:36:16.560 Yeah.

01:36:17.000 The,

01:36:17.200 the technical language for this is that the matter is just like the stuff that's in the,

01:36:25.400 the spiritual realm is the,

01:36:28.120 the form.

01:36:29.280 It's the,

01:36:29.760 like our soul is the substantial form of our body.

01:36:32.800 Right.

01:36:32.960 And so people try to really neatly separate these two things,

01:36:36.340 but that's not really how it works.

01:36:38.220 You are your soul.

01:36:39.660 You are your body.

01:36:41.220 Those things are together,

01:36:43.040 inseparably,

01:36:44.300 for now,

01:36:44.840 in this,

01:36:45.640 in this world.

01:36:46.680 And so to try to say,

01:36:48.400 well,

01:36:48.500 no,

01:36:48.640 that's just happening to my spirit.

01:36:50.700 It has no effect on my body.

01:36:51.860 Or this just happened to my body.

01:36:52.960 It's,

01:36:53.640 what are you talking about?

01:36:54.860 You're both.

01:36:57.140 That's,

01:36:57.600 and that's,

01:36:58.020 so that's like one of the greatest mysteries I'm not getting to right now,

01:37:00.960 but that's,

01:37:01.380 I mean,

01:37:01.520 that's the mystery of,

01:37:02.360 of it all.

01:37:03.140 We're not even really the mystery.

01:37:04.180 That's the truth behind it is that that's like,

01:37:06.520 like the spirit world is happening right now while we're sitting here talking.

01:37:09.640 So that's what the first thing it showed me was my body's literally laying there.

01:37:13.880 My soul is literally in the spirit realm.

01:37:17.220 So this is happening right now.

01:37:19.060 So when you see people physically going through something,

01:37:21.900 you don't know what is happening in the spiritually a lot of times.

01:37:24.580 Right.

01:37:24.740 So,

01:37:24.980 so anyways,

01:37:25.640 this is happening.

01:37:26.400 So I'm feeling this,

01:37:27.700 this whole thing going on in my body.

01:37:30.160 I'm,

01:37:30.360 I'm literally losing breath.

01:37:31.560 Like I'm crying out for God to have mercy,

01:37:33.360 but I'm thinking at this point,

01:37:34.660 like God heard me by now.

01:37:36.340 Like,

01:37:36.940 like either he forgives me or he doesn't.

01:37:39.060 So I'm kind of like,

01:37:40.200 I started to give up because it was exhausting me.

01:37:42.600 It was physically,

01:37:43.360 like I,

01:37:44.100 it was giving me,

01:37:45.040 like it was taking all my strength to speak,

01:37:47.160 to say,

01:37:47.540 God have mercy,

01:37:48.640 forgive me.

01:37:50.260 I just felt the longer I was in his hand,

01:37:52.080 the more I was,

01:37:52.860 life was getting pulled out of me.

01:37:55.140 And,

01:37:55.540 and at one point I started to give up.

01:37:58.040 I said,

01:37:58.380 you know what,

01:37:58.760 Jesus,

01:37:59.140 forgive me.

01:37:59.580 I made a big mistake.

01:38:00.420 I'm a sinner.

01:38:01.300 I believe in you for my salvation.

01:38:02.860 I said,

01:38:03.700 I'm letting go.

01:38:05.220 Like,

01:38:05.520 I'm going to give up.

01:38:06.640 I'm done fighting this thing right now.

01:38:08.460 And so I started to relax and I started to,

01:38:13.480 but I'm still going through turmoil.

01:38:15.480 I started,

01:38:15.800 but I started to think about,

01:38:16.860 my wife was pregnant at the time.

01:38:18.580 I have another kid.

01:38:19.820 I started to think about that.

01:38:22.080 And I said,

01:38:22.820 no,

01:38:23.020 I can't.

01:38:23.400 I said,

01:38:23.740 God,

01:38:24.060 I said,

01:38:24.420 you know what?

01:38:25.200 It's not about me.

01:38:25.900 I said,

01:38:26.280 my kid needs me.

01:38:27.980 And so that hit me.

01:38:29.280 That was the next thing that happened was,

01:38:31.040 oh,

01:38:31.840 these people need me.

01:38:33.540 So I said,

01:38:34.000 God,

01:38:34.380 save me for them,

01:38:36.140 you know?

01:38:36.460 And,

01:38:36.820 and so at that moment,

01:38:39.860 I started to feel almost a slight like pressure release.

01:38:43.560 And then I started to notice that at the top of the tower,

01:38:46.380 like it was like,

01:38:46.960 I couldn't look at it.

01:38:47.820 I knew,

01:38:48.240 you know,

01:38:48.760 it's the glory of God was up there.

01:38:50.600 I couldn't,

01:38:51.260 I couldn't go look at it.

01:38:52.320 I knew it was there,

01:38:53.980 but I can see the rest of the tower.

01:38:55.580 And I could see that the,

01:38:56.660 the source of that tower was at the top of it.

01:38:59.020 That was giving life to the rest of it.

01:39:01.380 And all of a sudden,

01:39:02.520 breath started coming.

01:39:03.480 Like I could,

01:39:04.020 I could see like a little,

01:39:06.460 like breath would hit me.

01:39:07.340 And then I'd feel it hit me.

01:39:08.340 And then in that moment,

01:39:10.280 I said,

01:39:10.600 every breath that I get is,

01:39:12.620 he's literally giving it to me.

01:39:13.660 He's aware that he's giving it to me,

01:39:15.060 consciously giving it to me.

01:39:16.520 And it was like,

01:39:17.240 I was,

01:39:17.680 it was like,

01:39:18.180 I would get the breath and it would,

01:39:20.040 and I would make it last.

01:39:21.000 Cause it was like,

01:39:21.560 there was space in between.

01:39:22.780 And it wasn't like,

01:39:23.260 I could just like how we could breathe now,

01:39:24.700 just as freely as we want.

01:39:26.280 I couldn't breathe freely.

01:39:27.500 I was breathing according to the,

01:39:29.320 like,

01:39:29.520 and it's a beautiful metaphor.

01:39:33.820 And of course,

01:39:34.900 as we're speaking here,

01:39:35.960 there's really no such thing as a metaphor or literal.

01:39:39.420 I mean,

01:39:39.580 what we're saying is these,

01:39:41.140 these two things intersect,

01:39:44.660 physical and the metaphysical.

01:39:46.620 And that you say you couldn't breathe.

01:39:48.600 And then God gives you that breath.

01:39:50.420 And this is the image of,

01:39:52.540 that's,

01:39:52.720 that is what the Holy Spirit is,

01:39:54.000 right?

01:39:54.120 I mean,

01:39:54.400 the bond of love between the father and the son and this procession of breath,

01:40:01.980 which it says,

01:40:02.500 yeah.

01:40:02.680 Psalm 33,

01:40:03.380 that's what it literally says.

01:40:04.200 It says he spoke the,

01:40:05.800 everything into existence.

01:40:06.880 And then it says his breath made man breathe,

01:40:10.220 like gave the being,

01:40:11.780 the hosts.

01:40:13.020 I'm now witnessing this.

01:40:14.220 He received the Holy Spirit,

01:40:15.660 Christ says,

01:40:16.100 right?

01:40:16.480 Breathe something.

01:40:17.180 Yeah.

01:40:17.420 Receive the Holy Spirit.

01:40:18.640 Yeah.

01:40:18.900 Wow.

01:40:19.380 And that's,

01:40:20.520 so now I'm sitting with that,

01:40:22.140 but it's like,

01:40:22.760 I start to get hope.

01:40:23.640 Cause I didn't have hope at that point.

01:40:25.140 Like I was just kind of just,

01:40:26.680 I didn't know what to think.

01:40:28.540 It was just,

01:40:29.120 I was just in pain and,

01:40:31.200 and confusion,

01:40:32.100 but also like just,

01:40:34.520 just discomfort.

01:40:35.740 So now I start to feel like maybe there's hope now.

01:40:39.160 And,

01:40:39.680 um,

01:40:40.700 so now the,

01:40:41.560 the breath starts coming more fluidly and I'm starting to like,

01:40:45.020 kind of ease up.

01:40:46.780 And then all of a sudden it was like this,

01:40:50.460 uh,

01:40:50.880 this,

01:40:51.260 uh,

01:40:52.320 cloud of witnesses kind of came around.

01:40:55.060 Right.

01:40:55.520 And the Bible talks about that.

01:40:56.660 So this,

01:40:57.260 these saints start coming out and they,

01:41:00.820 I knew they were praying for me.

01:41:01.840 I just started to feel energy,

01:41:04.220 love come from them.

01:41:05.620 And as they began to pray for me,

01:41:07.460 I started to feel more alive.

01:41:10.100 And then all of a sudden it was like a shadow of a cross came out,

01:41:13.200 out the top of the tower.

01:41:14.320 It was like a cross came out.

01:41:15.620 And it was like the,

01:41:17.180 the source of the top,

01:41:18.240 his attention turned to it.

01:41:20.260 And it was this,

01:41:21.200 cause like I said,

01:41:21.780 everything's telepathically and like,

01:41:23.120 it's,

01:41:23.300 it's all connected.

01:41:24.040 Like I,

01:41:24.560 you,

01:41:24.920 you know,

01:41:25.420 what's what everything is kind of feeling and thinking in a sense.

01:41:29.760 Uh,

01:41:30.200 so it's like I could feel God's attention turn to the cross and remember.

01:41:37.520 And then all of a sudden I look over and out of the tower,

01:41:41.460 Jesus starts walking out.

01:41:42.980 I see this man come walking towards me out into the center of this abyss.

01:41:47.440 He puts his arm around me.

01:41:48.940 He looks at everything,

01:41:49.780 all the demons.

01:41:50.500 He looks,

01:41:50.780 he puts arm around me.

01:41:51.800 He said,

01:41:52.020 this one's mine.

01:41:52.720 He belongs to me.

01:41:53.860 And as soon as he touched me,

01:41:55.380 uh,

01:41:56.620 I went back to my body and began going through deliverance because you can,

01:42:01.820 Jesus,

01:42:02.240 you can't,

01:42:02.760 Jesus can't touch you.

01:42:03.640 And so everything that I had just allowed into my life,

01:42:07.000 I literally was puking.

01:42:08.660 Like I never had a painful vomit like that.

01:42:11.000 I was puking my guts out,

01:42:13.240 filling up garbage bags,

01:42:15.040 little,

01:42:15.320 uh,

01:42:15.560 like shopping bags.

01:42:16.440 Which is common.

01:42:17.140 I mean,

01:42:17.300 this is people,

01:42:18.340 maybe not as intensely as what you're describing,

01:42:20.020 but people always talk about this really spiritual experience of ayahuasca.

01:42:25.380 They all vomit a bunch.

01:42:26.800 You think,

01:42:27.500 that doesn't seem so beautiful.

01:42:28.860 And even the beauty of that image though,

01:42:31.040 where Christ walks out and touches you and you're back in the body,

01:42:35.820 which is,

01:42:36.540 it's an incarnational faith.

01:42:39.560 The pivot of history is the incarnation,

01:42:41.700 the second person of the Trinity,

01:42:43.340 son of God into flesh.

01:42:45.580 And he was incarnate of the Holy Spirit,

01:42:48.480 born of the Virgin Mary and becomes man.

01:42:51.020 The fact that God,

01:42:52.540 the son becomes man is this height,

01:42:57.700 this perfection of the unity of physical and metaphysical.

01:43:03.320 You think,

01:43:03.540 no,

01:43:03.640 the body,

01:43:04.080 the body actually does matter.

01:43:05.340 We actually are these things.

01:43:06.140 And you see this in the sacraments that he gives us.

01:43:07.840 So this is,

01:43:08.580 this bread is my body.

01:43:10.380 Yeah.

01:43:10.600 How do you make sense of it?

01:43:11.340 It only makes sense in an incarnational faith.

01:43:13.600 So the second he touches you,

01:43:14.600 oh yeah,

01:43:16.400 there's the body again.

01:43:17.400 Oh,

01:43:17.540 right.

01:43:18.520 Oh,

01:43:18.840 there I am.

01:43:20.320 That's,

01:43:20.660 that's,

01:43:21.100 you gave me a piece of it.

01:43:22.300 Cause the,

01:43:22.740 the funny thing about this story is there's so,

01:43:24.440 so much that I'm still peace.

01:43:25.940 It'll probably the rest of my life.

01:43:26.800 I'll be piecing together parts of it.

01:43:28.960 And so I'm,

01:43:30.160 I go through deliverance.

01:43:31.040 I collapse.

01:43:32.060 I puke my guts out.

01:43:33.060 I think it's over.

01:43:34.100 Cause I collapse.

01:43:34.980 I feel kind of that release of like,

01:43:36.540 it's going to be okay.

01:43:37.660 And I collapse.

01:43:38.900 But now when I collapse,

01:43:40.540 like I collapse on the floor,

01:43:42.380 I go back.

01:43:44.040 But this time I'm in that tower.

01:43:47.040 And when I'm in the tower,

01:43:48.800 now I'm in the light.

01:43:49.900 I know the darkness is behind me.

01:43:51.440 I'm looking at Jesus face to face.

01:43:53.220 And it's like,

01:43:54.000 you don't see everything else.

01:43:56.760 It's like everything else fades away,

01:43:58.520 like a cinematic,

01:43:59.500 you know,

01:43:59.700 on your iPhone.

01:44:00.780 All I could see was his eyes.

01:44:02.420 And his eyes were like,

01:44:03.920 like almost like the earth.

01:44:05.820 Like they were multiple colors.

01:44:07.360 It wasn't just like,

01:44:07.940 oh, they're blue or brown.

01:44:08.880 It was like,

01:44:09.780 there were shades of green.

01:44:10.740 There were shades of blue.

01:44:11.640 It was just like,

01:44:12.680 they,

01:44:12.840 they,

01:44:13.060 they,

01:44:13.340 they,

01:44:13.600 they magnetically like pull you into him.

01:44:16.120 And then it also simultaneously pulls itself into you.

01:44:19.140 It's like this,

01:44:20.280 like this.

01:44:21.240 So everything's just fading away.

01:44:22.540 And it's just,

01:44:22.960 he's staring in my eyes.

01:44:24.320 He smiles at me.

01:44:25.560 And the,

01:44:25.940 so he's smiling at me as if he's happy to see me.

01:44:29.160 I'm thinking about what just happened,

01:44:31.260 but he's looking at me as if like,

01:44:34.260 he was happy to see me.

01:44:36.220 And he said,

01:44:37.080 maybe we shouldn't do that again.

01:44:38.520 And he smiled at me.

01:44:39.380 Like,

01:44:40.360 I love you.

01:44:42.420 And so in that moment,

01:44:44.820 oh man,

01:44:46.000 it's like,

01:44:47.120 what do you,

01:44:47.620 what do you do with that?

01:44:48.540 And in the moment,

01:44:49.740 I'm receiving that,

01:44:51.260 but I'm still stuck in what happened in the past.

01:44:53.800 You know,

01:44:54.360 but I'm also now,

01:44:55.360 scripture is flooding my mind.

01:44:56.920 I'm thinking about Psalm 73,

01:44:58.060 for whom do I have in heaven,

01:44:59.140 but besides you,

01:44:59.940 who do I decide on earth?

01:45:00.940 Like literally Jesus is all we have in heaven.

01:45:03.060 Like it's because of him.

01:45:04.400 It's him alone.

01:45:05.540 Like we have nothing else on our side.

01:45:07.460 There's nothing else.

01:45:08.180 Or like he's,

01:45:08.860 he's it.

01:45:09.880 And so that's hitting me like,

01:45:11.320 oh,

01:45:11.460 you're the one,

01:45:12.100 you're the one that came for me.

01:45:14.080 No one else.

01:45:14.860 There was no one else that could have came for me.

01:45:16.360 It was you.

01:45:16.960 Yeah.

01:45:17.160 The saints are praying for you.

01:45:18.700 Right.

01:45:18.960 But he comes for you.

01:45:20.220 Yeah.

01:45:20.640 But it's,

01:45:21.240 it's through him.

01:45:22.160 So it was like,

01:45:22.960 yeah.

01:45:23.280 And so that's all hitting me.

01:45:25.240 And so he like starts like walking with me,

01:45:27.980 but I started to notice cause I'm looking around and,

01:45:31.200 and it wasn't like I was seeing everything as clear as I'm seeing this room.

01:45:35.020 It was almost like there was a sheet over it.

01:45:37.740 So everything was kind of veiled,

01:45:39.300 but I could see it.

01:45:40.340 So I could make out,

01:45:41.480 oh,

01:45:42.120 this is this kind of color.

01:45:44.040 Oh,

01:45:44.360 there's,

01:45:44.760 there's a being there.

01:45:45.660 So I I'm seeing light beings kind of,

01:45:47.820 and I'm seeing that there's stuff around,

01:45:50.460 there's life around,

01:45:51.580 but I'm sensing that things like that,

01:45:54.960 these like angels or these,

01:45:56.400 these saints,

01:45:57.160 whatever they were,

01:45:58.440 were kind of disappointed in me.

01:46:00.320 Not mad at me,

01:46:01.260 but it was kind of just like,

01:46:02.580 you knew better,

01:46:03.400 Josh,

01:46:03.740 like kind of thing.

01:46:04.540 Like,

01:46:04.800 you know,

01:46:05.040 and not,

01:46:05.360 it wasn't a shaming way.

01:46:06.580 It was just like,

01:46:08.160 it's just what it is.

01:46:08.980 It just is what it was.

01:46:09.920 It was just kind of like,

01:46:11.140 that's wild.

01:46:13.680 I guess it shouldn't be wild that you describe it that way.

01:46:15.720 Because this is the scene in,

01:46:17.920 in Dante's divine comedy,

01:46:19.680 in paradise.

01:46:21.940 Something I'm always struck by when I,

01:46:23.860 I love the poem.

01:46:24.880 And when Dante gets up to heaven,

01:46:27.080 he has wonderful conversations with these people,

01:46:30.240 one of his ancestors,

01:46:32.020 saints,

01:46:32.940 and the object of his love,

01:46:35.520 well,

01:46:35.600 the ultimate object of his love is God,

01:46:37.020 but he is,

01:46:37.620 he is sort of channeling it through this beloved Beatrice.

01:46:42.580 And Beatrice sends Virgil down on this mission to,

01:46:46.760 you know,

01:46:47.120 go pull Dante out of his midlife crisis and the wayward way,

01:46:50.900 and pull him down through the pits of hell,

01:46:52.940 up through purgatory,

01:46:53.600 up into heaven.

01:46:54.420 But she's not nice to him.

01:46:57.780 She,

01:46:58.220 the first thing she says to him when she sees him at the end of

01:47:01.100 purgatory going into heaven,

01:47:02.320 she says,

01:47:03.080 he's crying because Virgil goes away.

01:47:05.080 And he,

01:47:05.640 he's,

01:47:05.920 Virgil's a pagan,

01:47:06.580 can't go to heaven.

01:47:07.060 And she says,

01:47:08.360 stop crying.

01:47:09.760 Non piangere ancora.

01:47:10.920 Non piangere ancora.

01:47:12.800 Cut it out.

01:47:13.380 We gotta go.

01:47:14.140 And then she goes up,

01:47:14.840 and she's fairly steely faced in heaven.

01:47:17.400 And she's looking at God.

01:47:20.440 And he can see in the reflection of her eyes.

01:47:23.900 That's how he's,

01:47:24.880 he's looking at her eyes and he's seeing God reflected there.

01:47:28.380 And,

01:47:28.600 but she's not,

01:47:29.480 she's not saying,

01:47:30.500 oh,

01:47:30.640 hey buddy,

01:47:31.140 good to see you.

01:47:32.040 Oh,

01:47:32.560 attaboy.

01:47:33.340 She's,

01:47:34.460 no,

01:47:34.700 reality is what reality is.

01:47:37.740 And I'm not going to pray for you,

01:47:39.740 but I'm not going to sugarcoat it for you.

01:47:41.500 And that's what I think.

01:47:42.400 Like we get sometimes this idea that like angels in heaven and Jesus,

01:47:46.200 it's like this teddy bear,

01:47:47.520 like,

01:47:47.780 oh,

01:47:48.100 you know,

01:47:48.640 like,

01:47:49.520 and it's like,

01:47:50.000 they're serious.

01:47:50.860 Jesus was about his father's business.

01:47:52.340 This is like a serious,

01:47:53.220 God's about his will being done.

01:47:54.660 So it's like,

01:47:55.360 this isn't a game,

01:47:56.300 you know,

01:47:56.580 it's like,

01:47:56.980 like why are we referred to as armies and sports players and,

01:47:59.800 you know,

01:47:59.960 like as soldiers.

01:48:00.980 Church militant.

01:48:01.740 Right.

01:48:02.020 And so that was very clear to me.

01:48:05.260 And so with that,

01:48:06.700 I couldn't accept it.

01:48:08.460 Like shame just hit me all of a sudden.

01:48:10.180 And I took off.

01:48:11.060 Like,

01:48:11.220 it's like,

01:48:11.660 I took off where I was at.

01:48:13.360 There was levels to it.

01:48:14.900 There was different,

01:48:15.840 like dimensions of glory where he brought me was a higher one.

01:48:19.680 I knew there was one or two above me.

01:48:21.940 And I knew there was at least three or four under me.

01:48:24.460 So when I looked down,

01:48:25.820 I said,

01:48:26.060 I'm going to the lowest part of heaven.

01:48:27.240 I can find as low as I can to,

01:48:29.780 I want to stay here.

01:48:30.680 Good strategy.

01:48:31.780 Good advice and good strategy.

01:48:33.080 Yeah.

01:48:33.360 So I took off.

01:48:34.480 I mean,

01:48:34.760 like you think it and you just travel,

01:48:36.300 you go,

01:48:36.700 you're there.

01:48:37.100 So next thing I know,

01:48:37.720 I'm at the ground and I'm on my knees and I'm,

01:48:39.880 I'm just worshiping.

01:48:40.580 I didn't want to look at anything.

01:48:41.940 I said,

01:48:42.280 God,

01:48:42.480 don't make me speak ever again.

01:48:43.820 I'm not worthy to speak.

01:48:45.340 I said,

01:48:46.220 all I want to do is worship.

01:48:47.840 I said,

01:48:48.080 just let me worship.

01:48:49.400 And so that was like the next thing that,

01:48:51.260 that 100% hit me of you're giving me this breath.

01:48:55.340 The only thing that I should do with it is give it back to you in a way that pleases you.

01:49:00.720 So it's like,

01:49:01.320 I don't really want to like,

01:49:02.480 just let me worship.

01:49:03.720 That's the only,

01:49:04.480 that's the only heart response to what's going on right now.

01:49:06.940 And to where this,

01:49:07.880 this realizing where I'm at,

01:49:09.580 I'm not,

01:49:10.020 I shouldn't be here.

01:49:10.940 But then Jesus came down and he comforted me.

01:49:14.440 You know,

01:49:14.940 it was like this,

01:49:15.960 this just moment of let it go.

01:49:18.000 Like just you're here,

01:49:20.320 embrace it.

01:49:20.820 So I started to send back with him.

01:49:23.380 And then it was like,

01:49:24.600 I switched.

01:49:25.120 I wasn't with him anymore.

01:49:27.040 I was in this,

01:49:28.460 this almost this bubble of like,

01:49:31.780 just like colors was like flying by me.

01:49:34.340 And it was like,

01:49:35.320 downloads were just flooding through me.

01:49:37.320 I felt like I was hooked up to a machine.

01:49:39.300 You see people like hooked up to those machines.

01:49:40.860 They're like,

01:49:41.180 like,

01:49:41.500 that's what it felt like.

01:49:42.560 I felt like I was hooked up to this machine.

01:49:44.820 And every question I had was just flooding through me to the point where I said,

01:49:49.640 stop,

01:49:50.060 you're going to kill me.

01:49:51.620 It was,

01:49:51.980 it was like,

01:49:53.460 it was like God's love and his wrath is grace.

01:49:56.480 And everything was all mixed in one.

01:49:58.020 Almost.

01:49:58.420 It was like this,

01:49:59.940 you're being too good to me.

01:50:02.000 I don't deserve it.

01:50:03.040 It was like all,

01:50:03.760 and everything I want to know is coming to me.

01:50:06.260 Everything I could ever think about in my life and wanting to understand is coming to me.

01:50:10.080 I'm getting all that.

01:50:10.740 It's just flooding me.

01:50:12.340 It's just hitting me all at all.

01:50:13.860 Simultaneously.

01:50:14.780 In a matter of minutes,

01:50:15.640 it's like download,

01:50:17.080 download,

01:50:17.340 download,

01:50:17.620 download.

01:50:17.820 Everything made sense.

01:50:19.540 And I literally was crying out to stop.

01:50:22.160 I said,

01:50:22.440 stop,

01:50:22.700 show me this.

01:50:23.420 Stop,

01:50:23.700 show me this.

01:50:24.420 It's going to kill me.

01:50:25.080 It's going to kill me.

01:50:25.820 It's going to kill me.

01:50:26.860 And then next thing I know,

01:50:28.280 I just,

01:50:28.540 I just started,

01:50:29.820 it started like lightening up and then I'm back in my body.

01:50:33.600 And it was just like,

01:50:34.740 it's over.

01:50:36.740 Like,

01:50:36.980 but,

01:50:37.160 but I didn't really want it to be,

01:50:38.600 you know,

01:50:39.000 like over now.

01:50:39.840 Cause now I'm like,

01:50:41.100 it was like,

01:50:41.800 all right.

01:50:42.460 Well,

01:50:42.580 you see the same,

01:50:43.500 experience that you're describing when,

01:50:47.380 when God's face passes by and Genesis say,

01:50:51.980 don't look directly.

01:50:53.900 You can't,

01:50:54.500 you will die.

01:50:55.240 If you look directly at the face of God,

01:50:56.920 you can look at the back of his head,

01:50:58.840 you get,

01:50:59.360 but the sense that you'll be overwhelmed because you're finite.

01:51:02.900 Yeah.

01:51:03.120 And so you can't comprehend God.

01:51:06.620 It is not,

01:51:07.240 that's not going to work.

01:51:08.700 Yeah.

01:51:09.140 It's like,

01:51:09.600 if he were totally comprehensible by you,

01:51:11.240 he wouldn't be God and you wouldn't be you.

01:51:13.600 Right.

01:51:14.220 No,

01:51:14.600 I mean,

01:51:14.880 it reminded me of like when Paul said,

01:51:16.380 there's things I've seen,

01:51:17.380 I can't tell you.

01:51:18.200 Yeah.

01:51:19.180 It's like,

01:51:19.940 and I see through a veil half darkly.

01:51:21.420 Yeah.

01:51:21.740 Yeah.

01:51:22.180 You're describing this veil,

01:51:23.520 right?

01:51:23.820 It was too much for my,

01:51:26.560 my natural body contained.

01:51:28.140 And you know what?

01:51:28.720 You,

01:51:28.900 you reminded me of something when you were talking about Dante Zofrano.

01:51:31.440 And I haven't talked about this really yet,

01:51:33.360 but what,

01:51:35.180 what it was,

01:51:36.100 cause I was baptized Russian Orthodox,

01:51:37.780 which is,

01:51:38.200 I think very similar to Catholic faith.

01:51:41.660 And somebody asked me,

01:51:43.460 they're like,

01:51:43.760 have you heard of the toll houses?

01:51:45.920 And when I started looking at the toll houses,

01:51:48.640 I was like,

01:51:49.560 I really feel like that's what I experienced.

01:51:51.280 You know,

01:51:52.140 and I,

01:51:52.560 so I didn't get this till after,

01:51:53.820 but it's,

01:51:54.260 it's similar to like purgatory.

01:51:58.300 And,

01:51:58.720 and,

01:51:59.200 and that's what,

01:51:59.920 so I've been looking at the toll houses.

01:52:01.580 You won't get out until you pay the very last farthing,

01:52:03.660 that sort of thing.

01:52:04.480 That's kind of how it felt.

01:52:05.680 I don't,

01:52:05.940 I mean,

01:52:06.080 I don't know.

01:52:06.880 I just,

01:52:07.580 when I read about what toll houses are,

01:52:09.140 I'm like,

01:52:09.440 that's definitely what it seemed like I was going through.

01:52:11.820 That's definitely what it felt like.

01:52:14.160 Because there was a period of,

01:52:15.880 of hell.

01:52:17.920 It was,

01:52:18.400 it was a form of,

01:52:19.260 of hell,

01:52:19.900 not the fullness of it.

01:52:21.280 Even the description that you have of the,

01:52:23.060 of the trial,

01:52:25.140 you know,

01:52:25.380 that you're on,

01:52:25.680 we're all in trials.

01:52:26.760 That's what,

01:52:27.740 yeah.

01:52:28.220 Jesus is led by the spirit into the desert to be tested by,

01:52:31.300 into a trial,

01:52:31.860 you know,

01:52:31.980 leave me not into a trial,

01:52:33.340 leave me not to temptation,

01:52:34.480 deliver me from evil.

01:52:37.380 So you come to,

01:52:38.560 your wife is there.

01:52:42.580 Then what?

01:52:43.580 How's,

01:52:43.800 how's the story end?

01:52:44.860 I guess the story's still going on.

01:52:45.880 And she's freaked out.

01:52:47.760 Like,

01:52:47.880 basically like,

01:52:49.440 she doesn't really know what to think.

01:52:50.560 She's,

01:52:50.820 and you know,

01:52:51.240 my wife didn't grow up in that world.

01:52:53.480 So she doesn't see this.

01:52:54.780 She doesn't,

01:52:55.260 you know,

01:52:55.440 she's just taking my word for it to just like,

01:52:57.280 calm down,

01:52:57.720 relax.

01:52:58.080 It's going to be okay.

01:52:58.680 Pray,

01:52:59.060 whatever.

01:52:59.520 Like,

01:53:00.520 so she's just kind of like,

01:53:01.960 Oh,

01:53:02.040 I'm glad it's over.

01:53:03.160 I mean,

01:53:03.320 what do you,

01:53:03.680 what do you really say after that?

01:53:04.780 You know,

01:53:05.080 it's not like there was a,

01:53:06.520 a significant like reaction.

01:53:09.860 She was just freaked out.

01:53:10.760 And she's like,

01:53:11.320 that was scary.

01:53:12.180 You know,

01:53:12.480 and to this day,

01:53:12.980 like when this thing comes up,

01:53:14.480 she's like,

01:53:14.800 yeah,

01:53:14.900 that was scary.

01:53:15.620 You know,

01:53:15.900 and she'll say that.

01:53:17.520 And then I laid in bed and I was scared to move.

01:53:21.000 You know,

01:53:21.460 for the rest of the night,

01:53:22.440 I stayed awake saying,

01:53:23.460 hallelujah,

01:53:23.940 hallelujah.

01:53:24.860 You know,

01:53:25.240 and for the next three days,

01:53:26.380 I didn't want to talk.

01:53:27.660 I was scared to talk.

01:53:28.960 I mean,

01:53:29.680 that's what the fear of God will do.

01:53:31.020 I mean,

01:53:31.260 the fear of God got so deeply drilled into me and not,

01:53:34.040 I'm scared of God.

01:53:35.660 The,

01:53:36.120 the acknowledgement of his holiness,

01:53:38.580 wonder and awe,

01:53:39.440 right?

01:53:39.660 Servile fear.

01:53:40.720 Yes.

01:53:41.320 It's different than holy.

01:53:42.240 The holy fear.

01:53:42.880 Exactly.

01:53:43.600 And so that was the main takeaway from it.

01:53:46.420 Like God really is that,

01:53:48.680 that holy.

01:53:49.640 And that,

01:53:49.980 and that's so like,

01:53:50.700 that ties into this whole,

01:53:52.540 you're your own God,

01:53:53.440 you're your own divine.

01:53:55.060 It's like,

01:53:55.920 is that's,

01:53:56.300 that's what it won't.

01:53:58.540 All my friends who have gotten sucked into this stuff,

01:54:01.480 whether we're talking about chemical,

01:54:03.740 or just spiritual,

01:54:05.680 or usually it's some kind of combination of the two.

01:54:08.620 And it always seems to come down to,

01:54:12.320 you're your own God and you can do whatever you want.

01:54:14.940 You've got the power and you,

01:54:16.480 you,

01:54:16.720 you,

01:54:16.960 you,

01:54:17.200 you.

01:54:17.540 Like,

01:54:17.960 if it's about you,

01:54:18.820 you,

01:54:19.020 you,

01:54:19.220 you,

01:54:19.460 you,

01:54:19.620 you're probably not on the right path,

01:54:21.860 man.

01:54:22.360 Yeah.

01:54:22.920 Yeah.

01:54:23.240 I agree.

01:54:23.800 I think that,

01:54:24.320 and that's,

01:54:25.620 that's the,

01:54:26.500 I think the,

01:54:28.900 the big like difference to me is that God wants to create with us.

01:54:34.980 And Jesus is the,

01:54:36.340 the,

01:54:36.620 the center of everything.

01:54:38.400 The whole,

01:54:39.560 this,

01:54:40.040 these whole other movements,

01:54:40.960 they take everything that God intended for us to have and,

01:54:44.080 and not everything,

01:54:44.920 but some things,

01:54:46.380 and they just kick Jesus out of it.

01:54:48.480 So,

01:54:49.000 you know,

01:54:49.340 and it reminds me of that parable where the,

01:54:51.080 the,

01:54:51.380 the guys said,

01:54:52.160 I'm going to send my helper to the vineyard to get my fruit.

01:54:54.680 They beat him up,

01:54:55.260 beat him up.

01:54:55.900 I'll send my son.

01:54:56.900 They said,

01:54:57.120 Oh,

01:54:57.240 we'll kill him so we can inherit what belongs to him.

01:54:59.840 That's literally what,

01:55:00.720 what Satan has done.

01:55:02.000 He's,

01:55:02.440 he's perverted everything that God has took it for himself and then made people afraid of,

01:55:08.620 of certain things that God had created for people and he kicked Jesus out of it.

01:55:13.820 So it's like,

01:55:14.400 you know,

01:55:14.780 everything's gotten perverted.

01:55:16.280 I love the image of the cross is the axle on which the world turns,

01:55:19.680 on which the universe turns.

01:55:21.260 You know,

01:55:21.460 that's just,

01:55:22.220 that's where it all turns around.

01:55:23.540 And you can deny that,

01:55:26.020 but if you deny that,

01:55:27.280 you're going to find yourself,

01:55:28.840 increasingly incoherent.

01:55:31.240 And you can,

01:55:32.160 you can try to make a God of yourself.

01:55:34.340 That's the primal temptation in the garden of Eden is you shall be as gods,

01:55:37.880 but you're not going to end up as a God.

01:55:40.220 You're going to end up destroyed physically and spiritually.

01:55:46.160 Absolutely.

01:55:47.000 Absolutely.

01:55:47.520 It's not going to work out.

01:55:48.800 No,

01:55:48.960 it's not.

01:55:49.620 It's not.

01:55:50.420 So,

01:55:51.420 yeah,

01:55:51.960 I mean,

01:55:52.700 that's the,

01:55:53.120 and that's that.

01:55:54.220 That's that.

01:55:54.700 Yeah.

01:55:55.120 That's that story.

01:55:56.900 Josh.

01:55:57.340 Yeah.

01:55:58.840 It's an amazing story.

01:56:00.360 Yeah.

01:56:00.960 I was going to say that's a hell of a story,

01:56:02.540 but it's not.

01:56:03.020 A lot of it was a hell of a story.

01:56:04.700 Yeah.

01:56:05.120 But it's got a happy ending.

01:56:06.640 Ends like a comedy.

01:56:07.700 Yeah.

01:56:08.160 Yeah.

01:56:08.760 Yeah.

01:56:09.200 Yeah.

01:56:09.540 It's good.

01:56:10.140 Doesn't it all?

01:56:10.880 Doesn't it all have a happy ending?

01:56:11.980 I hope for most of us,

01:56:13.600 you know,

01:56:13.840 I think,

01:56:14.660 I think,

01:56:15.360 but I think that's what I gather.

01:56:17.400 Yeah.

01:56:18.000 The,

01:56:18.200 the,

01:56:18.520 the,

01:56:18.580 the happy ending might not be guaranteed.

01:56:20.540 Well,

01:56:20.660 we're just talking right now during Lent and that the Easter exclamation that people make is,

01:56:27.940 oh,

01:56:28.680 happy fault.

01:56:29.680 Mm-hmm.

01:56:30.620 In the garden of Eden,

01:56:31.480 the fault of sin that destroyed perfection.

01:56:34.360 Oh,

01:56:34.520 happy fault,

01:56:35.100 the one for us so great,

01:56:35.960 so glorious,

01:56:36.460 a redeemer.

01:56:37.200 That's what you say on Easter.

01:56:38.160 Did you say,

01:56:38.480 oh,

01:56:39.060 all right,

01:56:39.920 look at that.

01:56:40.540 There was all this terrible stuff that happened,

01:56:43.340 but God can turn that even for good.

01:56:45.440 For good.

01:56:46.120 And,

01:56:46.520 and then we,

01:56:48.300 all we have to do is cooperate with God's grace.

01:56:51.020 See,

01:56:51.340 it should be this easy part.

01:56:52.760 Yeah.

01:56:53.400 Yeah.

01:56:53.840 Even time and time again,

01:56:56.100 five overdoses.

01:56:57.800 Yeah.

01:56:58.400 That's what I was saying.

01:56:59.320 Multiple.

01:57:00.240 I,

01:57:00.480 I,

01:57:01.000 I,

01:57:01.360 I mean,

01:57:01.900 it's,

01:57:02.160 it's,

01:57:02.680 I know I'm just a vessel of mercy.

01:57:04.600 That's where,

01:57:05.320 that's the point this has brought me to.

01:57:07.180 I know that I'm,

01:57:08.480 I'm only here because of God and God alone.

01:57:11.800 I,

01:57:12.160 you know,

01:57:12.680 I'm aware of that too,

01:57:14.320 you know?

01:57:15.060 And so,

01:57:16.720 now really the only thing I could do is try to,

01:57:19.280 to just submit to his,

01:57:21.000 his will and his grace as much as I can,

01:57:23.140 you know,

01:57:23.540 and,

01:57:23.800 and,

01:57:23.820 and stay in that,

01:57:25.500 that lane.

01:57:26.600 And so.

01:57:28.680 Thank you for coming in,

01:57:29.580 Josh.

01:57:30.080 Of course.

01:57:30.720 Thank you for having me.

01:57:31.280 Where can people find you?

01:57:32.620 So I have an Instagram,

01:57:33.740 uh,

01:57:34.340 Joshua underscore kingdom priest.

01:57:37.220 Um,

01:57:37.540 and I have a tick tock,

01:57:38.540 the same thing.

01:57:39.340 Um,

01:57:39.780 and I have a YouTube,

01:57:40.520 just my name,

01:57:41.120 Joshua is that call.

01:57:42.700 So.

01:57:43.860 I'm Michael Knowles.

01:57:44.740 We'll see you next time.

01:57:46.480 Right here.

01:57:47.420 Take care.

01:57:48.020 Bye.

01:57:52.560 Bye.

01:57:53.460 Bye.

01:57:54.500 Bye.

01:57:55.460 Bye.

01:57:55.660 Bye.

01:57:56.640 Bye.

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The Michael Knowles Show - April 15, 2023

Michael & Shocking Psychedelic Stories：＂The Light Beings Held Me Down＂｜ Joshua Zatkoff

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