The Michael Knowles Show - Michael & The Diddy Escort： “Diddy Watched the Whole Time”

00:00:00.000 So I don't know who I'm seeing, and so I show up to the address, I go up to the door, knock, and she opens the door.

00:00:05.820 So you say it's very performative.

00:00:07.120 She's like, okay, sit there.

00:00:08.380 She puts the towel down, like, hey, just don't pour the baby oil all over me.

00:00:12.420 I see, like, a little slit in the room.

00:00:15.040 There were times in the sessions where I saw that demon, the demon that she talked about.

00:00:20.860 Personal demon, you know, these are the demons that are reflecting me, or Diddy.

00:00:25.240 Yeah, Diddy.

00:00:25.920 You actually did this stuff.

00:00:27.660 Your name and your picture were revealed in court.

00:00:29.480 It was revealed in court, and then it started to go mainstream, and 50 posted that picture.

00:00:33.500 So this guy is a sex-crazed animal.

00:00:38.100 She was under his control.

00:00:40.300 There's this video of him beating her in a hallway.

00:00:44.000 I was supposed to be there that night.

00:00:46.420 I was supposed to.

00:00:47.360 P. Diddy has gotten off the hook for the worst charges that he faced pertaining to his freak-offs and weird sex parties over decades.

00:01:03.300 But nobody denies that those parties happened, that he engaged in depraved, crazy sexual activities, that he had his girlfriends sleep with multiple men who were hired for the occasion.

00:01:18.040 And I am right now joined by one of those men.

00:01:22.400 That would be Sean Deering.

00:01:24.040 Sean, thank you for being here.

00:01:25.980 Pleasure to meet you, Michael.

00:01:27.280 Pleasure to meet you.

00:01:28.200 Thank you for flying in for this.

00:01:30.440 P. Diddy beat the tough charges, even though all the things he's accused of doing, maybe not the crimes, but the activities, the parties, the sex, the everything.

00:01:42.320 No one denies that he actually did those things.

00:01:44.180 He did them for decades.

00:01:46.520 And you're one of the guys he hired to sleep with his girlfriend.

00:01:50.160 Yeah.

00:01:51.920 How did you get into that?

00:01:53.220 I lived in L.A. prior to that.

00:01:55.540 You know, I'm born and raised in Hawaii.

00:01:57.820 And I was figuring out where am I headed with life.

00:02:00.540 Tried college, three and a half years, didn't exactly find my way.

00:02:03.800 And after that, decided to join the workforce.

00:02:06.480 And one thing I realized, I love serving.

00:02:08.660 So I started out serving restaurants and such.

00:02:11.300 And it was kind of like a rolling ball effect.

00:02:14.020 I just tried to make the most of it.

00:02:16.440 So from there, I was working in Southern California for a bit.

00:02:20.520 And a friend of mine helped open up a valet venture in Vegas.

00:02:26.240 Okay.

00:02:26.960 So from there, I got into the bar industry.

00:02:29.200 And then the bar industry, I was introduced to a wonderful girlfriend that thought I should model one day.

00:02:36.580 I thought she was joking when she asked me because I look in the mirror.

00:02:40.080 And I don't know.

00:02:41.300 I see a funny-looking guy.

00:02:42.300 Ah, you're a good-looking guy.

00:02:43.340 I have a nice look at.

00:02:43.760 I think, you know, I thought she was joking with me.

00:02:46.500 So she challenged me to model.

00:02:48.540 She said she knew photographers and stuff.

00:02:50.220 And I said, babe, if you think I can model, I'm going to give it my all.

00:02:54.040 Like Mr. William Hung is a lifelong idol of mine.

00:02:59.340 You know, the shebang, shebangs.

00:03:01.440 You know, I remember watching that.

00:03:03.000 And that guy lit me up.

00:03:03.840 And one thing he said is, everything I do, I give it my best.

00:03:07.240 And so I'm kind of that way.

00:03:09.940 You know, that kind of stuck with me.

00:03:10.900 And I just tried to give everything I had in modeling.

00:03:13.980 And then that led to a profile on Model Mayhem.

00:03:18.140 You remember Model Mayhem?

00:03:19.040 I've heard the name of it.

00:03:20.920 It's sort of the, I think it's like the old-school MySpace style of the model industry.

00:03:25.880 Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:03:27.060 Put your profile on.

00:03:28.120 There was Explore Talent, Model Mayhem.

00:03:31.440 I remember there were these go-make-it-big-in-show-business kind of websites.

00:03:34.760 Yeah, kind of the beginning of the pipeline, I guess you would say.

00:03:37.840 And so my girlfriend had me put my profile on there.

00:03:41.300 And so I do.

00:03:43.220 And I thought it was a, you know, I'm going to go.

00:03:45.760 I'm going to give it my best.

00:03:46.860 And I tried.

00:03:47.600 I put it on there.

00:03:49.000 And then a few months later, I get a message from Mr. Garen James,

00:03:51.880 who is the guy who owns the company Cowboys for Angels.

00:03:55.980 I thought it was a joke.

00:03:57.080 I thought it was spam.

00:03:58.300 I thought somebody wanted me to send them more pictures and be like,

00:04:01.640 hey, I'm interested in you.

00:04:02.680 So I showed my girlfriend.

00:04:03.860 And I was like, hey, look, this guy's messaging me.

00:04:05.820 And her and I had come across some of his episodes of that Showtime show Gigolo in the past.

00:04:10.460 Hold on.

00:04:10.760 So I'm not totally familiar with Cowboys for Angels or the Gigolo show.

00:04:16.860 This agency is a, it sounds like it's a gigolo agency.

00:04:20.400 Uh, yes.

00:04:22.280 Well, the proper term would be a, um, the escort service.

00:04:26.720 Well, not, uh, uh, the terminology slip in me, but, uh, it's a, uh, it's prostitution.

00:04:33.220 But in nicer words, using some softer verbiage, but yes, in a sense.

00:04:40.900 But the, you know, on that same note, um, I did go on dates where sex wasn't involved.

00:04:45.500 It was a compensation for our time.

00:04:47.080 So that's the idea behind it is that the women are compensating us for our time.

00:04:51.700 Whatever happens between adults is between two consenting adults.

00:04:54.160 But, but there, so people hear that and they say, well, that sounds like legal, uh, C, CYA kind of stuff.

00:05:00.980 But, but you're saying, no, you, so you, you, you joined this agency and, and sometimes a woman would just hire you to go to dinner or something.

00:05:09.600 Uh, yeah, uh, there was one woman I went on four dates with and we, we never had sexual encounters.

00:05:16.420 There were times at the end of the dates, it would start to wrap up and, uh, she would inquire on having more hours.

00:05:26.260 And she's like, I'm going to get in trouble.

00:05:27.420 You got to go.

00:05:28.140 And I'm like, the choice is yours.

00:05:29.760 All right.

00:05:30.140 I'll have a, have a wonderful night.

00:05:32.160 And so it was just, yeah, you know, you let the lady take the lead.

00:05:36.380 Okay.

00:05:36.780 Now, hold on.

00:05:37.600 So you, your girlfriend says you should be a model.

00:05:39.960 You start being a model.

00:05:41.140 Then this guy says, Hey, do you want to be a escort?

00:05:43.420 Well, he messaged me on the site and I thought it was a joke.

00:05:46.780 So you show your girlfriend, what does your girlfriend say?

00:05:48.900 And we were together at the time and I was like, well, I'm not going to indulge in this.

00:05:52.080 I was showing her.

00:05:52.740 I was like, look at the spam.

00:05:53.780 Like, can you believe this guy?

00:05:55.300 It's not him.

00:05:55.960 But he, you know, he's messaging me on this site.

00:05:58.320 And then about a year later, we ended up breaking up.

00:06:00.060 And she was a very, uh, wonderful one, wise, and just had a good head on her.

00:06:05.140 And as we're breaking up, it was a cordial breakup.

00:06:07.840 She was like, remember that guy?

00:06:09.020 You know, you need money.

00:06:09.760 You need a, you know, you need to, uh, you need a new path.

00:06:13.900 You should probably message that guy.

00:06:15.040 And I'm one, I didn't, I didn't think I'd ever want to be an escort.

00:06:19.660 I didn't think I would jump into this.

00:06:21.380 I am a man of God.

00:06:22.180 I love and serve God, but I, I've also sinned.

00:06:25.720 Now at the time, before you accept the offer from the escort agency, would you have called

00:06:31.240 yourself a Christian and said, you believe in God?

00:06:33.660 You would have.

00:06:34.360 Oh yeah.

00:06:34.820 Even if, if, if the man asked me, I would have told him, I love and serve God.

00:06:38.000 We're not even at the ditty part.

00:06:39.300 And I'm already, this is pretty wild.

00:06:42.440 You date the, you're dating this girl.

00:06:44.600 She's the one who gets you into modeling.

00:06:46.200 Then you say, Hey, this gigolo guy just wants to work with me.

00:06:49.840 And, and, and you don't do anything with it.

00:06:52.340 Then as you're breaking up, this, this girl sounds like a horrible influence.

00:06:57.060 It says, be a model.

00:06:57.800 And then, Hey, by the way, you should go be a gigolo now that we're broken up.

00:07:00.480 It was one that, uh, you could look at it how you choose, but I, she saw something in

00:07:06.000 me and challenged me.

00:07:06.780 And, uh, I'm one, if there's a, a challenge or if someone thinks I can do something, I

00:07:11.580 didn't see how possibly personally degrading it could be, you know, on the outskirts.

00:07:17.020 Uh, what were you, okay.

00:07:18.740 Then what at the time you're viewing this in this very positive way?

00:07:22.380 So it's a challenge.

00:07:23.220 I could do it.

00:07:23.760 It's kind of like modeling.

00:07:25.040 But it, so if you didn't think, and I, I've heard this from multiple people.

00:07:30.480 You didn't think it was going to be so degrading, you know, when you're getting into it, what

00:07:35.580 did you think it was going to be?

00:07:37.980 Uh, I wanted to, uh, the fact that I could spend time with someone, I'm a very much a

00:07:43.220 people person.

00:07:43.900 I love people.

00:07:44.800 And then with my first girlfriend that I had out of high school, I was in a four year

00:07:48.240 relationship with her.

00:07:49.440 Another amazing, beautiful girl, woman, but I realized I didn't listen.

00:07:54.000 Right.

00:07:54.380 And so I realized like I'm spending time with these women and I love listening.

00:07:59.080 I do like hearing them, you know, and, uh, as a young man, you know, sex is fun, even

00:08:06.480 though I understand it, it is sinning.

00:08:08.360 Uh, so.

00:08:10.040 So was that part of it though, when you're signing up?

00:08:11.580 Cause look, I could get it.

00:08:12.600 How old were you at this point?

00:08:13.440 I wasn't, uh, about 24.

00:08:17.300 So you're 24.

00:08:17.900 So part of that is you're a 24 year old guy.

00:08:20.020 You say, hold on, wait a second.

00:08:21.300 I'm going to get paid to sleep with women.

00:08:23.500 That's, what's the catch?

00:08:25.680 Exactly.

00:08:26.260 And you're thinking that a little bit too.

00:08:28.900 Uh, not necessarily as an incentive, but just like it was the, uh, when I got the message

00:08:33.920 from Garen, he, I just was shocked.

00:08:36.520 Right.

00:08:36.760 I was shocked.

00:08:37.520 I was like, Oh snap.

00:08:38.580 He messaged me back.

00:08:39.560 And he's like, I'm going to be in Vegas in two days.

00:08:42.640 Uh, can we sit down and have a conversation?

00:08:44.160 And so I was back in LA at the time.

00:08:47.260 So I'd boogied over to Vegas and my, I don't think I stayed with my ex-girlfriend.

00:08:53.520 I forget where I stayed, but I'd stayed over, had a quick meeting with him and I was shocked.

00:08:58.520 And so I was one, I just let the ball roll.

00:09:00.120 I was like, he messaged me back.

00:09:01.560 I went with it.

00:09:02.240 And then a few, about a week later, he put me on his team.

00:09:06.440 How many people were on the team?

00:09:07.740 Um, at that time, probably about 12 to 15, but I think there's a lot more now because

00:09:14.320 I saw.

00:09:15.240 So this is still an operation.

00:09:16.940 Yes.

00:09:17.400 Yeah.

00:09:17.720 So, okay.

00:09:18.340 So, and it's grown.

00:09:19.900 So then at the time you, you go out, you're interested in this opportunity and you've got

00:09:25.560 three potential motivations.

00:09:27.920 One is helping the women.

00:09:29.720 You want to talk and listen to the women.

00:09:31.280 One is sex and one is money.

00:09:33.940 If you had to rank them, how would you rank those three motivations?

00:09:39.620 The first one, I, I like people.

00:09:41.320 It was mostly the people.

00:09:42.720 You want to help people.

00:09:43.580 You want to talk to people.

00:09:44.640 You want to listen to the women.

00:09:45.420 Okay.

00:09:45.740 So you sign up for the company.

00:09:49.840 Then what?

00:09:51.540 Uh, about a week later, he calls me.

00:09:53.540 He's like, all right, got our first date.

00:09:56.120 I told her your little experience to go in, own it, be here this date, this time.

00:09:59.880 And so it was just show up.

00:10:01.820 And that's, uh, in that setting there in LA.

00:10:04.060 Many people have the fake it till you make it mentality.

00:10:06.220 And so I could see that, you know, I was like, I had to, uh, instill confidence though,

00:10:11.780 is what it was.

00:10:12.500 You know, I realized the fake it till you make it thing, it sits, but if you're faking it,

00:10:15.480 you're lying to yourself right off the bat.

00:10:17.220 And so just have the confidence to attain in a sense.

00:10:21.360 And so that's how I led with, I went in and my first date, I got extended hours, uh,

00:10:27.060 which the guy likes, you know, it's more money all around.

00:10:29.800 And so from there, it, the dates just, not, not to cry too much.

00:10:34.620 When you say extended hours, is that a euphemism or is that, is that, does that, is that just

00:10:39.320 a code word for sex or is that, does it just mean you go out and you actually have more

00:10:42.800 drinks or whatever?

00:10:43.560 Yeah.

00:10:44.020 So she, you know, they, they hire for a timeframe and if you go beyond that, then it's extra

00:10:51.040 money and such.

00:10:52.500 And so, and that's what the guy says, you're, you're there for this X hours, but if it continues,

00:10:57.100 just message me in the morning and we'll take care of all the money and such or things of

00:11:02.200 that nature.

00:11:02.600 So yeah, that first date got extended.

00:11:05.260 And I think that was kind of the, I guess he saw something and the ball kept rolling from

00:11:09.500 there.

00:11:10.060 I wasn't, I wasn't the, you know, 10 dates a month guy.

00:11:14.400 It was, you know, max three to four.

00:11:17.520 And then sometimes it'd go two to three months.

00:11:19.220 Okay.

00:11:19.400 Not to cry too much.

00:11:20.300 And you don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but that first date, this is your

00:11:23.560 introduction to this industry.

00:11:25.340 Yeah.

00:11:27.260 Is it, are you just chatting over warm milk and cookies or is it?

00:11:32.600 It started out at a bar there along the Malibu coast.

00:11:35.420 Just, you know, she's sitting at a bar and walk up, uh, introduce myself and we start

00:11:42.140 chatting and get a drink and dance.

00:11:46.740 And then, uh, that's when she, she, my first client was a, like a well-off lawyer and she

00:11:53.700 kind of broke it down to me why she had acquired me that night.

00:11:57.940 Why?

00:11:59.120 She made it very clear.

00:12:00.240 She's a very busy one.

00:12:01.740 She doesn't want to go to a bar and get hessled and hackled.

00:12:04.400 She knows what she wants.

00:12:05.780 She wants to go out, have a good time.

00:12:07.340 And then she wants to be able to have her own household when she wants it.

00:12:11.420 And so it was, I could see is like, she wanted to, uh, to be appreciated, but not heckled

00:12:17.940 or hassled.

00:12:19.340 And she liked that her level of success gave her the ability to do that, uh, to be able

00:12:25.140 to control that situation.

00:12:26.260 And so I, I had to play respectfully, accordingly, you know, and that, that's, I think that's

00:12:32.980 one of the keys of, uh, my roots as a Hawaii boy, uh, you lead with respect.

00:12:38.220 You show respect to get respect.

00:12:39.520 And that was one of the keys I think that helped me in this industry is I just, I respect

00:12:42.820 people.

00:12:43.360 Okay.

00:12:43.800 Now, again, you can just tell me, I don't want to answer that.

00:12:47.380 Did you sleep with her or not?

00:12:49.180 Yes.

00:12:49.780 You did.

00:12:50.220 Okay.

00:12:50.720 Okay.

00:12:51.060 Now it was a different time in your life and obviously you've gotten out of it, but that's,

00:12:54.200 the reason I'm asking that is now all of a sudden, after this first date, after this

00:13:00.900 first job, you now know, okay, hold on.

00:13:03.640 I'm not, this ain't just modeling anymore.

00:13:05.760 I am, I'm now in the sex industry.

00:13:10.820 Did that, how did that work?

00:13:13.600 Did that warp your perception of yourself or no?

00:13:16.440 I mean, I didn't, you know, I didn't, yeah, I, I didn't see it that way.

00:13:20.940 I mean, obviously it is, it's clear as day.

00:13:22.480 I can deny it all, but it, it, it is that I, I can see how to, like my, that voice inside

00:13:28.660 that if I'm not doing it, someone else will.

00:13:30.680 And I, I truly do appreciate this woman and I don't want her to be treated or felt like

00:13:38.100 she's only being used for her money in a sense.

00:13:40.340 So that was kind of in my soul was like, I, that was one of those things I, why helped

00:13:46.000 me to, to be able to do it, you know, and not feel.

00:13:49.400 So you said, in your mind, you're saying, I'm not just doing this for the money.

00:13:53.140 Yeah.

00:13:53.600 I got that, that, it's one, it was a challenge.

00:13:55.840 Like, I never thought, I never thought that would happen.

00:13:59.720 I never thought that, I never wanted that door to open, but opportunity came and I jumped

00:14:04.820 on it or I, uh, owned it.

00:14:06.880 That's where, uh, so, um, but.

00:14:12.160 Now who is, forgive my ignorance of this.

00:14:16.640 In my mind, a male gigolo, it, it's, it was kind of like Playgirl.

00:14:22.380 No, guys buy Playboy and guys buy Playgirl, right?

00:14:25.900 There's no, I, in my mind it was, it was either straight guys hiring women or gay guys hiring

00:14:31.060 men.

00:14:31.320 I did not think that women would actually hire a male prostitute or a gigolo or an escort

00:14:37.460 or whatever the term is.

00:14:39.400 It was women though.

00:14:41.380 Yeah.

00:14:41.860 Um, uh, yeah, but 90% of the clients are women.

00:14:45.840 And then a few others were the males husbands hiring me for their partner, their wife.

00:14:52.760 It happened, it wasn't very prevalent, but it happened.

00:14:56.320 Yeah.

00:14:56.600 A few, quite a few times.

00:14:57.960 And it's one of those that, uh, yeah, it learned a lot.

00:15:02.460 I've learned, I learned a lot.

00:15:03.980 How, how old are these women?

00:15:04.880 Uh, uh, the oldest was about 45 and the other one, uh, about one who was in their late twenties.

00:15:13.300 Uh, some, some of them were beautiful couples that were, it's like they, they wanted to be

00:15:21.040 able to be honest with each other.

00:15:22.260 And they thought they had to bring an outside source in, in order to break the threshold of

00:15:28.180 their comfort with each other.

00:15:29.180 So they would say things like they wanted to do a, like a sex act or something they

00:15:33.400 thought was freaky.

00:15:34.340 And they were too scared to say it to their loved one because they didn't want them to

00:15:38.260 be like, Oh, I don't want to do that.

00:15:40.340 That's gross.

00:15:41.600 But then, you know, I'd be brought into the setting and it just would open up the sexual

00:15:46.960 conversations.

00:15:48.180 And so they were, in a sense it was exciting to them, but it was the, it, it's sad to say

00:15:53.160 it was the, uh, the beginning of the unraveling.

00:15:55.680 So, so it's funny because I can, I can, as you're explaining this, I can kind of

00:15:59.180 get that in principle that it's, it's almost easier if there's a third person, but it is,

00:16:04.960 it's kind of funny in a way to say, I'm too embarrassed to, uh, ask for some sort of sexual

00:16:12.300 behavior with my, uh, wife or girlfriend.

00:16:15.600 So, so instead I'm going to propose bringing a male escort that that's somehow less odd or.

00:16:22.400 And I could see too, sometime on a, well, many times it was the man, cause they wanted to

00:16:28.720 indulge in their sexual fantasies.

00:16:30.240 They wanted like, he wanted his wife to, uh, have fun with another woman.

00:16:35.500 And so this was somewhat of the, I guess, balancing factor.

00:16:40.360 It was a way to not make it seem as bad, I guess, for them and to say, see, I want my

00:16:46.580 sex fun and I'm allowing you to have your sex fun.

00:16:49.540 That seems truly like, I, I see as you're describing it, it's like the middle ground to me.

00:16:55.060 That seems like the exact, like worst case scenario.

00:16:58.240 If you're a guy, you say, well, I have this deviant fantasy about two women, so I'll meet

00:17:04.160 in the middle and I'll bring in another guy.

00:17:05.720 As they call it, they called it the, the devil's threesome.

00:17:09.080 I think I'm in college.

00:17:10.000 I remember people saying that.

00:17:10.920 So anyway, okay, so, so it's women, all of this is subverting my expectations.

00:17:18.520 It's women, it's not just women, it's relatively young women.

00:17:22.840 Are they, the, put aside the cuckold, the cuckold couples for a second.

00:17:27.240 It, the, the women, you say one of them is, okay, she's rich.

00:17:32.280 So that's why she's, she's rich, she's busy, she knows what she wants.

00:17:35.480 She doesn't want to go deal with guys.

00:17:36.840 Are the women ugly physically?

00:17:40.860 I'm trying to figure out why, what would motivate a single woman to go hire a gigolo rather than

00:17:46.760 just go to a bar.

00:17:47.680 Any woman can pick up any, any guy basically.

00:17:50.520 If you wait long enough at a bar.

00:17:51.620 Yeah.

00:17:52.240 And that was part of it.

00:17:52.940 She didn't want that hassle.

00:17:54.140 You know, they didn't like the, um, and it was the control of the situation.

00:17:57.900 Control, I could see that.

00:17:58.860 Control, and the money, the money gave them that power.

00:18:01.320 Right.

00:18:01.980 And I, I'm a very, I'm a pleaser in a sense.

00:18:04.900 Like I said, I like to listen and I've learned that I've learned that there's much value in

00:18:09.420 listening.

00:18:10.480 And, um, cause there was, you know, some of the clients, uh, I, I was a regular for a

00:18:17.660 few of the ladies.

00:18:18.320 And then one of the other guys was also a regular for some of the ladies.

00:18:21.820 And so I saw the game, some of the other guys were playing with the women and attempts

00:18:28.560 to, I don't want to go too deep, but attempts to lock these rich women down, either through

00:18:35.660 marriage or pregnancy of some sorts.

00:18:38.080 And so I saw this game being played by, you know, a few different women of clients who

00:18:43.340 I had.

00:18:43.780 And that was the day I, I called the owner.

00:18:47.360 I was like, I can't stand by this.

00:18:49.520 I can't stand by what is going on.

00:18:51.740 So hold on, you're saying the men, the gigolos who are regulars, they say, okay, well, I got

00:18:57.600 this woman who's rich, uh, who's paying me for my services, but rather than just get a

00:19:04.400 paycheck for every date, what if I, what if I impregnate this woman in a, in a deceitful

00:19:09.760 way, meaning?

00:19:10.420 Oh, very.

00:19:10.940 Yeah.

00:19:11.300 Cause it was the same game plan from a few different women.

00:19:14.520 And they would tell me like one of these, one of the women who I saw quite often would

00:19:18.580 tell me the game plan or what this, one of the guys was doing behind the scenes.

00:19:23.460 And then a few weeks later or a few months later, I see another client.

00:19:26.960 And these, these women are wealthy women who are, their parents did very well.

00:19:31.960 And so they had large sums of money and many, they too themselves had businesses, which they

00:19:36.060 developed.

00:19:37.320 Um, but this, yeah, there was a man doing, and that, like, that's why too, some of these

00:19:42.940 women, you know, they would, uh, one thing we were never supposed to exchange numbers

00:19:46.260 because all business was supposed to be done through the, uh, to ensure there's no backroom

00:19:52.000 deals and such.

00:19:54.080 So, but I did exchange numbers with these women who had some, you know, they had some hard

00:19:57.740 times in their life and they just need someone to talk to when they were, you know, at points

00:20:01.680 in their life where they're on their, their deathbed in a sense.

00:20:06.640 And so.

00:20:07.640 So these women who were really, uh, desperate or, or depressed or something.

00:20:12.300 Seeking, yeah, they were seeking something.

00:20:13.260 Seeking.

00:20:13.480 And so they, you gave them the number you'd, you'd have kind of offline.

00:20:18.820 I tried, I, I'm one, I, I don't like to operate in that manner, but when the women would tell

00:20:25.020 me, Hey, I just made me, I just need someone to talk to, you know, or they would lead in

00:20:30.860 that manner.

00:20:31.400 And I would always try to direct them to the.

00:20:33.780 The agency.

00:20:34.500 The agency.

00:20:35.340 But, you know, there was a time where I did exchange the numbers and they would call

00:20:39.880 me when they.

00:20:41.000 They're still paying you just off the, off the books.

00:20:43.020 Yeah.

00:20:43.340 Well, you know, they would, I wouldn't necessarily see them too.

00:20:46.820 Like they would call me to talk and stuff, but I did see a couple of times off the books

00:20:51.780 and they would hand me some cash.

00:20:53.520 Okay.

00:20:53.680 So you've given me the scope of your career with the, as a gigolo and you say, it started

00:21:00.580 out, I was okay morally with the women paying me for, for sex, but I was not okay with these

00:21:06.360 guys who are, it's, it's crazy.

00:21:09.100 You hear about women, you know, pretending they're on a contraceptive drug and they're not

00:21:15.320 and it's to lock a man down.

00:21:17.100 You never think of it in the other way.

00:21:18.520 The man is going to try to impregnate the rich woman, but you say, okay, that, that part

00:21:22.320 was too immoral and that's when I got out.

00:21:24.520 But there was this thing in the middle that you alluded to, which pertains to the big

00:21:28.360 news story.

00:21:28.940 You said there are these guys who would hire you to sleep with their wives or girlfriends.

00:21:35.800 That's true.

00:21:36.380 Yeah.

00:21:36.900 And one of those guys is P. Diddy.

00:21:40.220 Yep.

00:21:40.660 And when that night came, uh, so, um, I did also, I worked private parties, bartended,

00:21:47.480 served, uh, at studios and places all around Los Angeles and stuff.

00:21:52.460 And so that night, one night was doing, uh, it was a pretty boring event, only wine and

00:21:58.860 about 13 guests at a gentleman's house at the Hills.

00:22:03.860 And I kind of got all the guests, their wines and stuff.

00:22:06.620 And I'm sort of standing there and the reception's real in and out.

00:22:09.560 And I see my phone kind of blinking and I'm like, Oh crap.

00:22:11.840 So I look at it, it says, uh, Garen James missed call.

00:22:15.500 And when, you know, when he calls, it's just one of those, like, okay, you know, this is

00:22:18.600 the real deal.

00:22:19.140 It's your boss.

00:22:19.700 You gotta, you gotta.

00:22:20.500 It's time.

00:22:21.320 So I, uh, told the guy, Hey Andy, I gotta go make a phone call real quick.

00:22:24.780 And it's one of those seeds from back in the, um, the Verizon days, you know, I went to the

00:22:29.060 side of the house and I'm like hitting call and like, and it's like, no bar.

00:22:32.880 Call failed.

00:22:33.480 Yeah.

00:22:33.920 So I'm on the side of the house and there's trash cans.

00:22:36.500 I'm like, ah, ah, go through.

00:22:37.740 And I see him like, okay, it goes through and I'm holding it.

00:22:40.120 And I'm like almost up on a trash can.

00:22:42.220 It finally goes through to Garen James.

00:22:44.500 And, uh, and then he's all like, Hey, you available?

00:22:48.760 I was like, ah, I could be.

00:22:50.120 And he's like, okay, uh, we've got A-listers.

00:22:53.060 Are you available to be here this time?

00:22:54.840 And I'm like, I will be.

00:22:56.180 And so that's how that played out.

00:22:59.240 I went in, I told the guy, uh, I think his name was Andy.

00:23:01.520 I was like, Hey Andy, I got a family emergency.

00:23:03.560 I gotta, I gotta head out.

00:23:05.560 Then I'll leave all the wines out and stuff.

00:23:07.400 He's like, all right, thank you very much.

00:23:08.860 And that was a real easy gig.

00:23:10.260 And so I, so this is the most Hollywood story I've ever heard.

00:23:13.920 You're already at a party in the Hollywood Hills.

00:23:15.860 You get a call as a bartender.

00:23:17.680 You get a call to, to do a, like a sex job for A-listers at another Hollywood party.

00:23:25.880 You give an excuse to the first guy.

00:23:28.140 And now you're driving over to P. Diddy's house.

00:23:30.620 L.A. Fitness first.

00:23:31.400 I had to shower up.

00:23:32.060 Didn't want to go stinky.

00:23:32.820 So I had to get clean.

00:23:34.260 I had to go do a quick stop.

00:23:35.680 And I'm in my little Ford Focus, you know, little beeper bopper works well there in L.A.

00:23:40.880 because you can fit in all these parking spots.

00:23:42.440 I think it was the Beverly Hills Hotel.

00:23:45.000 Okay.

00:23:45.200 Either, either there or her condo was the first one, but pull up.

00:23:49.520 And, uh, this is where, so I don't know who I'm seeing.

00:23:52.540 And, uh, so I show up to the address.

00:23:54.160 I go up to the door, knock, and she opens the door.

00:23:57.520 This is Puff Daddy's girlfriend.

00:23:59.100 This is Cassie.

00:23:59.900 And I didn't know, I didn't, I didn't put two and two together.

00:24:02.640 And I, she opens the door.

00:24:04.740 She was stunningly beautiful.

00:24:06.320 Just had a presence.

00:24:07.920 Uh, and I, like, I almost, and she's like, hi, come on in.

00:24:11.460 All right.

00:24:12.040 Hey, um, starts telling me the situation.

00:24:14.360 And I'm, like, walking behind her.

00:24:15.660 And, you know, I, I'm, I know how to handle myself in a sense.

00:24:18.540 I've been around beautiful people, but she had a presence.

00:24:21.180 And I was like.

00:24:21.720 So, so you're hired to do a job.

00:24:23.880 Yep.

00:24:24.160 But instantly, you're enamored of this.

00:24:26.520 This woman, you, you know, you, it was weird.

00:24:28.900 Like, there's, um, yeah, you could, I mean, it's like, you could feel her spirit.

00:24:32.960 In Hawaii, Hawaii, you, you, you vibe off people.

00:24:36.100 And I didn't think that was, I didn't really know that was a thing until I got older and

00:24:39.240 stuff.

00:24:39.480 And I realized, man, you can vibe off people.

00:24:41.220 You can feel the energy and stuff.

00:24:42.380 And so, like, she melted me.

00:24:44.640 That was the energy at first.

00:24:45.900 Just melted me, her stunning beauty.

00:24:47.600 And just the kindest person you could imagine.

00:24:51.480 Like, just the sweetest.

00:24:53.500 And so this thing, like, I'm almost fainting.

00:24:54.860 I'm walking behind her.

00:24:55.580 And I'm like, oh, God.

00:24:56.840 I feel my legs getting weak.

00:24:57.880 And I just tap her shoulder.

00:24:58.760 I was like, excuse me.

00:24:59.260 I just got laid.

00:24:59.900 I'm sorry.

00:25:00.360 If I'm stuttering, you're just drop-dead gorgeous.

00:25:02.500 I just had to get that out of the way so that we can move forward and I'm not just losing

00:25:06.300 myself.

00:25:06.700 She's like, oh, you're so sweet.

00:25:08.120 Thank you.

00:25:08.800 And walks me into a room, tells me the situation.

00:25:10.880 She's like, oh, my.

00:25:11.660 And I didn't realize they weren't husband and wife.

00:25:14.220 But she tells me, hey, um, so we're just going to have a little fun.

00:25:17.420 You know, you're waiting here for now.

00:25:18.820 But I'll come get you in a little bit.

00:25:20.140 My husband likes to watch.

00:25:21.220 You know, and then we'll just, we're going to be out there on the couch having fun and

00:25:25.220 we're just going to be playing.

00:25:26.600 All right?

00:25:26.940 So she, I mean, she, in many ways, practically, they were together so long.

00:25:31.200 It seems like they'd be husband and wife.

00:25:32.420 So she refers to him as her husband.

00:25:34.240 Yep.

00:25:34.680 Even though that was a long-term boyfriend.

00:25:36.360 Yeah.

00:25:36.760 And the long-term boyfriend just so happens to be, you don't know this at the time.

00:25:39.380 No, I was on the assumption that this A-list or whoever he or she was hired the most beautiful

00:25:45.800 escort.

00:25:46.700 Yeah.

00:25:47.060 And I'm going to have fun with another escort.

00:25:50.340 That was, I mean, she was that, like, stunning in a sense.

00:25:53.400 I don't mean to mean, like, escort looking, but she just was stunningly beautiful.

00:25:57.060 And so, yeah, I'm not putting this together.

00:25:58.660 And then I'm sitting in the room and she even offered, she said, oh, here's a bar.

00:26:02.480 Could I make you anything?

00:26:03.620 And I'm like, just, hey, thank you, though.

00:26:05.940 Just go take care of yourself.

00:26:07.460 I'm good.

00:26:07.940 Thank you.

00:26:08.420 And then, yes, she comes back and the session starts about 15 minutes later.

00:26:14.260 So when you say the session starts, you mean you guys do the thing that married couples

00:26:19.800 do?

00:26:20.880 Yeah.

00:26:21.360 Very, this, you know, it was all, it's very performative.

00:26:25.080 So the whole system set up, you know, like the, every flavor of Ciroc is on the bar, you

00:26:32.540 know, every bottle's placed in positions.

00:26:34.940 Did that give it away?

00:26:35.880 You said Ciroc.

00:26:36.520 Hold on.

00:26:36.840 Well, no, I didn't put two and two together then, you know, I took, you don't think of

00:26:40.100 it, I should have.

00:26:41.060 That was the first clue.

00:26:42.360 I don't know.

00:26:42.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:43.400 I don't think I would have put it together if I, if I found myself in that situation.

00:26:47.100 But so you're there.

00:26:47.760 So you say it's very performative.

00:26:50.680 Because, you know, she sits on a couch and there's like a couch like this, maybe facing.

00:26:54.220 She's like, okay, sit there.

00:26:55.440 She puts the towel down.

00:26:56.440 It's like, hey, just don't pour the baby oil all over me.

00:26:59.300 And it would be, it would be heated, some heated, some just room temperature.

00:27:02.220 And, you know.

00:27:04.040 Because I remember, I actually didn't follow the case that closely, the Diddy case.

00:27:08.580 But one of the details that was in every headline was that investigators seized like a thousand

00:27:16.360 bottles of baby oil.

00:27:17.480 It was, yeah, I mean, there's lots of baby oil.

00:27:19.600 There's always baby oil.

00:27:21.100 Always.

00:27:22.280 And never got old.

00:27:23.740 And I didn't see him until about the fourth or third or fourth encounter.

00:27:29.080 I mean, but the first one, so we begin.

00:27:33.000 She, on the couch and directing.

00:27:35.620 Like, hey, play with yourself.

00:27:36.560 Do this.

00:27:37.140 Lean this way.

00:27:37.780 Just like guiding.

00:27:39.040 And I see like a little slit in the room.

00:27:42.000 And I want to, I'm, I want to ensure I respect all those that I've seen.

00:27:47.160 I don't want to disrespect any clients.

00:27:48.600 I don't want to dispel any private information.

00:27:50.540 The only reason I'm opening up about this is it's public now.

00:27:53.800 And.

00:27:54.060 So let me tell you something.

00:27:55.040 Had, had you just sat down, we're meeting for the first time, and you told me this story.

00:28:00.960 It's not that I would have immediately called you a liar, but I would have been very skeptical

00:28:06.500 about your claims.

00:28:07.920 You know, with this in the news, I'm sure there are going to be a lot of people who claim

00:28:11.200 to have been gigolos at freak offs or in Diddy's house or whatever.

00:28:15.000 There was already, it was some guy who claimed to be a lawyer or working with the legal team.

00:28:18.380 All these people making up a lot of stories.

00:28:20.360 Yeah.

00:28:20.860 But I know that you actually did this stuff because you didn't volunteer this to go get

00:28:27.740 publicity.

00:28:28.540 Oh.

00:28:29.120 Your name and your picture were revealed in court.

00:28:31.840 Uh, well, I, yes.

00:28:33.480 Well, revealed in court, and then it was sort of go mainstream when 50 posted that picture.

00:28:37.540 And I, I, I honestly thought because.

00:28:39.400 Wait, what did, 50 Cent you're talking about.

00:28:41.400 Yeah, 50 Cent.

00:28:41.800 What did he post?

00:28:43.200 Uh, he said something like, I wonder what he did to these guys or something along those

00:28:48.620 lines.

00:28:48.880 So it's like very, um, assumptive and especially with what's going on, you know, people can.

00:28:56.740 So, so the rapper 50 Cent posts your picture along with a bunch of other guys, says, I wonder

00:29:01.340 what P Diddy did to you.

00:29:02.680 And your name and your picture also come out in court, which is probably where 50 Cent

00:29:07.820 got it.

00:29:08.380 Yeah.

00:29:08.640 And all of this is, uh, quite corroborating of the fact that you're sitting in a hotel

00:29:14.960 room at the Beverly Hills Hotel.

00:29:17.120 Or was that, was it the Beverly Hills or at the condo?

00:29:18.740 It was either her condo or the Beverly Hills Hotel.

00:29:20.500 And, and she is directing you in a sexual performance for P Diddy, who's behind the curtain.

00:29:31.080 Yeah.

00:29:31.440 He was in the room and just a little, little creek open.

00:29:35.400 And you could tell it was, she was in, I mean, I didn't notice it, uh, till a few sessions

00:29:44.260 in, but she was in under his control.

00:29:46.440 Like, so hold on, but guys, this is the part of the story that to me is really interesting

00:29:50.500 from the legal perspective.

00:29:51.880 The claim of the prosecution in the Diddy case was that he was coercing these women,

00:29:59.720 chiefly her, but from the story you're describing, she welcomes you in.

00:30:06.540 She tells you what to do.

00:30:08.300 She's directing this.

00:30:09.440 This sounds like a woman who, again, ultimately, because I, I have a Christian conception of liberty.

00:30:14.400 Ultimately, I think this is not a free woman.

00:30:16.980 This is a woman who's in the thrall to a lot of vice and sin, but in the modern legal conception

00:30:22.240 of liberty, it sounds like this woman's totally free and she's telling you what to do.

00:30:27.320 It doesn't sound like he's got a whip and a chain and he's.

00:30:30.820 And that's, um, you know, I'm one, I respect the setting.

00:30:34.980 I respect clients and I realized I'm there to have a job.

00:30:37.340 So I'm there to do, to do a job.

00:30:39.140 I want to ensure the clients get what they pay for.

00:30:43.100 Um, so like I, I didn't, I wouldn't listen to their arguments and stuff.

00:30:48.620 If there was some noise.

00:30:49.320 But they were having arguments.

00:30:50.300 I would hear things, nothing.

00:30:52.340 When I, I didn't hear vicious tones and stuff.

00:30:57.580 And, um, but I would hear noise.

00:31:00.920 You could hear them discussing stuff and some pretty strong tones.

00:31:05.120 But at that time too, I'm not like, I, I, I didn't want to include myself into anyone's

00:31:09.900 business.

00:31:10.320 I was like, that's.

00:31:11.480 You're hired to do a job.

00:31:12.540 Exactly.

00:31:13.000 And that's, you know, I didn't want to, uh, try to get a story or anything.

00:31:18.320 I didn't want to have any desire.

00:31:19.400 So I didn't want to try to listen to anything.

00:31:21.540 Um, what I was going to say is that initially it was very, seemed very cordial, very, uh,

00:31:28.900 light.

00:31:29.300 But as the sessions grew, there were times her spirit, you could tell were just, it was

00:31:35.480 a completely different spirit.

00:31:37.380 Uh.

00:31:37.400 What do you mean by that?

00:31:38.520 Where instead of the jovial smile, hi, welcome in.

00:31:41.440 What can I get you?

00:31:42.860 Okay.

00:31:43.360 All right.

00:31:43.620 Go here.

00:31:44.000 We'll be out soon.

00:31:44.940 That's it here.

00:31:45.840 And there were times in the sessions where I saw that demon, the demon that she talked

00:31:52.040 about, you know, uh, yeah.

00:31:56.380 What do you mean she, a demon, a per, like a, a kind of a personal demon, you know, these

00:32:00.440 are the demons that are afflicting me or diddy.

00:32:03.560 Yeah.

00:32:03.960 Diddy.

00:32:04.500 Diddy.

00:32:04.880 Diddy.

00:32:05.320 You could see his.

00:32:07.100 I see the fear.

00:32:07.920 Well, and that's the thing.

00:32:08.860 I, I made a statement to News Nation that I wanted to, uh, clear out.

00:32:14.760 So there, there was a time in the later sessions where.

00:32:20.140 How, how many sessions were there?

00:32:23.540 I'd say in between 15 to 25.

00:32:26.380 With us.

00:32:28.000 About.

00:32:29.520 Probably.

00:32:30.340 So, pun intended, you are very intimately acquainted with Diddy and his girlfriend.

00:32:39.660 Fairly.

00:32:40.260 Yeah.

00:32:40.660 There was, and he was always like, honestly, talking to him.

00:32:44.800 I, I, I'm a people person.

00:32:46.040 I, I talk, I'll laugh.

00:32:47.160 You can laugh at me.

00:32:48.020 I love it.

00:32:48.560 I, you know, there's no, no harms.

00:32:50.280 No, I feel no harm in that.

00:32:52.080 But, uh, but trying to talk to him was like talking to a soulless wall.

00:32:56.380 Like, it just was all about.

00:32:59.340 Yeah.

00:32:59.860 Right here.

00:33:00.680 All about the sex.

00:33:01.720 Oh, yeah.

00:33:02.320 Yeah.

00:33:02.580 Like, just, like there was one time, uh, uh, that, that's how the conversations were.

00:33:09.480 Like him and I were, we were on a bed separated, but, you know, laying near the top and she

00:33:15.180 was at the base performing.

00:33:16.600 He's like, Hey man, why, why, why, why, why, why men doing this?

00:33:20.340 Why are more guys doing this stuff?

00:33:21.500 And I, I come to realize that he, he knew the agency and he knows more men are doing

00:33:24.660 this.

00:33:24.940 And I just responded, try to try to respond pretty quickly.

00:33:27.400 And I was like, oh, man, men will want to, uh, men want to own.

00:33:31.600 So men will want your woman and it creates jealousy and stuff.

00:33:34.340 So that was always.

00:33:35.160 Well, he says, why aren't more men doing this?

00:33:36.600 Does he mean, why aren't more men doing what I'm doing?

00:33:39.720 Yeah.

00:33:39.740 Yeah.

00:33:40.000 Like gigolo and being a.

00:33:41.640 More, more men doing what you're doing.

00:33:43.120 Yes.

00:33:43.580 Right.

00:33:43.820 Why aren't more men?

00:33:44.800 Cause it seems like, you know, for like a teenage boy, maybe it seems like, oh, I got paid

00:33:49.200 to have sex.

00:33:49.760 Yeah.

00:33:50.040 Why aren't more dudes doing this?

00:33:52.320 And your answer, your answer is because men want.

00:33:55.500 Ownership.

00:33:55.980 They want owner.

00:33:56.620 They want a woman of their own.

00:33:57.720 They don't want to.

00:33:59.020 That was my quick response.

00:34:00.320 And, you know, I was just trying to give him an answer.

00:34:02.900 I didn't want to leave him hanging and stuff, but that's how it was.

00:34:04.860 It just, there was never any more than that.

00:34:06.660 So in a sense too, there was, I've only bought one CD in my life and it was, I'll be missing

00:34:10.460 you by Diddy.

00:34:11.380 You know, she, you know, that song he wrote for his, who I thought was his brother.

00:34:16.180 And it took me many times.

00:34:17.400 It took me, uh, I thought about it.

00:34:18.760 I was like, cause I just wanted to, you know, I, I didn't want to connect, connect.

00:34:22.480 I'm there for a job, but I'm like, I want to.

00:34:24.700 You want to know this guy.

00:34:25.660 Yeah.

00:34:25.880 I just want to have a cordial conversation.

00:34:27.560 I just want to break the ice and just talk to you.

00:34:29.380 You know, I mean, you're, I'm over here.

00:34:32.200 Sleeping with your girlfriend.

00:34:33.420 Your lady.

00:34:34.140 And I just want to know you as a man.

00:34:35.620 And so I told him one day, I was finally just like, I'm just going to just say it like,

00:34:38.560 Hey man, I've only bought one CD in my life.

00:34:40.800 It was the, the piece you put together for your brother, little smalls, man, I'll be missing

00:34:44.800 you.

00:34:45.240 And I thought that would be like, Oh, he could talk about his brother and we could, I could

00:34:48.960 talk about my brother.

00:34:49.680 We could like start to relate that way.

00:34:51.480 His response was, that's what's up.

00:34:53.980 Yeah.

00:34:55.420 I'm just like, cool, man.

00:34:57.700 All right.

00:34:58.600 All right.

00:34:59.620 Right back to work.

00:35:00.880 Yeah.

00:35:01.200 So this guy from the picture you're painting and the courts have painted and from like video

00:35:07.400 footage, I guess, is a, is a sex crazed animal.

00:35:13.960 Is that overstating it?

00:35:16.360 Uh, that's, I could, I mean, I would say that's fair.

00:35:19.200 That's definitely fair for my own personal experience.

00:35:22.760 Uh, this is like, yeah, it's like he had a, and it was the power too.

00:35:28.580 You know, I could tell it was the power that turned him on as well.

00:35:30.980 It was the, it wasn't just the naked bodies touching and stuff.

00:35:35.780 It was the power.

00:35:37.200 This is going to, this maybe is a dumb question, but there are going to be a lot of people asking

00:35:42.580 and, and this is my confusion too.

00:35:44.900 If you're a guy and you have a pretty girlfriend, you should get married, I guess, and have kids

00:35:51.760 and have a big family and a good life.

00:35:53.480 But even short of that, it seems to me you'd want to just, uh, sleep with your girlfriend

00:35:59.200 a lot because she's really hot.

00:36:01.900 How, why would you want to, why would you want some other guy to sleep with your girlfriend?

00:36:09.480 And why would you pay for it?

00:36:15.100 That, you know, I don't know the exact answer to that one because I'm, I'm like you.

00:36:18.600 I, I want my one.

00:36:19.980 You're the guy in this situation and you don't know the answer.

00:36:22.260 I have no idea.

00:36:23.540 I don't, I don't understand how, why that's, I, I don't, you know, I, I think it's the,

00:36:30.320 uh, deception.

00:36:31.260 It's one of the devil's greatest tools that like you think you're satisfied, but you want

00:36:34.660 more, you know, you just, you just want more.

00:36:36.620 Like this was fun, but you could have more.

00:36:39.020 And if you don't have something to steer you in line to be like, no, that's a sin.

00:36:42.740 You don't need that.

00:36:43.680 Your flesh will, you know, indulge.

00:36:47.060 So, so basically you, you, you're the, you're the rich rapper.

00:36:52.160 You have a hot girlfriend.

00:36:54.260 You've, you've done that thing 10 billion times.

00:36:57.040 And now because it's not ordered, it's not ordered towards something.

00:37:02.340 It's not, you just need more titillation.

00:37:05.080 And that's what I think it is.

00:37:06.540 Yeah.

00:37:06.720 Okay.

00:37:06.860 Like that's, I mean, that's my assumption as to, you know, like you hear the audio of

00:37:11.160 what may have happened behind closed doors with Diddy and some rappers, you know, and

00:37:15.120 then some of them aren't as famous as they were before those moments that they had with

00:37:20.740 Diddy.

00:37:21.680 And I think it's, uh, it's a, it's my assumption.

00:37:24.660 It's a, it's a power thing.

00:37:26.700 Um, right.

00:37:27.560 Because hold on the thing you're alluding to, which I think is public.

00:37:30.400 It's not, we're not exactly revealing private sins here.

00:37:34.580 Diddy's like half a gay guy.

00:37:37.540 It seems like he's doing weird stuff with guys and making guys do weird stuff with him.

00:37:41.200 And that's the thing I want to make it very clear.

00:37:42.080 He never touched me.

00:37:43.300 He, him and I never had any physical interactions.

00:37:45.660 That's good.

00:37:46.160 We, I just want to make that clear.

00:37:48.180 But he would, but that does add a wrinkle to this where you say, well, hold on.

00:37:51.200 And if he's half a gay guy, why does he even have a girlfriend?

00:37:57.260 And cause he's just a pervert basically, is it?

00:38:00.180 Right.

00:38:00.440 Many other men that I've talked to, like Cassie is one of the most beautiful women.

00:38:05.160 You, you could, like, she's, she's a very gorgeous, beautiful woman.

00:38:09.320 And I think Diddy, you know, he had that and he wants to be above everyone else.

00:38:13.960 So that was kind of his, his satisfaction.

00:38:16.120 It was like, her beauty is great, but, but I own it and you want it, but I own it.

00:38:22.480 So, uh, this is one.

00:38:25.960 So there was a few times where I got to see that side of the Diddy where it was all about

00:38:29.580 power and, uh, her and I can have no interaction without him there.

00:38:36.080 If he, cause there was a moment we're doing, uh, you know, we're naked and on a couch and

00:38:44.380 Diddy kind of gets up and walks and she just kind of pauses and, and then just sits like

00:38:49.840 this and I kind of lean back on the couch and then I just kind of, Hey, I forget what

00:38:54.620 the topic I tried to bring up.

00:38:56.080 I'm like, Hey, what happened yesterday or blah, blah, blah.

00:38:58.880 Just something off the top.

00:39:00.040 Catch those Yankees.

00:39:00.720 Yeah.

00:39:01.120 Just something just to have a, to break the ice in a sense.

00:39:05.120 And she just looks, she just goes, not till he comes back.

00:39:08.560 Just no, wait till he comes back.

00:39:10.380 I'm just like straight.

00:39:12.500 And so that's when I was, uh, made a statement on News Nation.

00:39:16.300 It wasn't fear I was sensing, but it was, this is, this woman knows next level what she

00:39:21.520 has to do to get through this situation.

00:39:23.540 Like she knows if I even possibly talk with him, he's going to, what'd you say to him?

00:39:30.220 What are you talking about?

00:39:31.340 Cause there's video of him beating her in a hallway.

00:39:33.880 I was supposed to be there that night.

00:39:36.260 I was supposed to.

00:39:37.180 Yeah.

00:39:38.620 I got to figure that, found that out from a reporter who found out all the chat logs

00:39:43.480 and stuff.

00:39:43.940 But yeah, I was supposed to be there that night.

00:39:46.480 Yeah.

00:39:46.840 It would have been, I don't know what would happen, but I, that's not what I like to see

00:39:50.560 is like, I, I'm the guy, I don't like to, I don't never start a fight, but I like to,

00:39:56.040 I like to bring it down.

00:39:57.380 I like to try to tone it down.

00:39:58.620 And, you know, I don't, I like to try to bring peace and civility.

00:40:03.400 So, so you, you were supposed to be there the night Diddy's film beating his girlfriend

00:40:07.140 and you're wondering rather than say, man, I'm so glad I wasn't there that night.

00:40:12.860 You're thinking, man, had I been there, maybe that wouldn't have happened.

00:40:15.640 I like to, I like to think there's a chance that I could have hopefully brought the spirit

00:40:19.360 down.

00:40:19.660 I don't know.

00:40:20.180 I guess I, maybe just trying to, maybe I'm talking a little too tall here, but it's

00:40:24.240 like, that, that's kind of been my, I guess my thing is I, I have a deep vibe, I guess,

00:40:29.540 you know, and I, I don't mind getting punched in the head if it could bring some peace and

00:40:34.500 civility.

00:40:34.880 I will fight back and try to defend myself.

00:40:36.820 But at the same time, I could, I don't know, I would try to bear hug him if I saw him beating

00:40:40.580 her up.

00:40:40.820 I don't, I don't know what would have happened, but I would have tried to quell the situation.

00:40:46.520 If not, you know, uh, yeah, I probably would have had to talk with the guy and be like, man,

00:40:51.100 this, Garen, be like, nah, I don't stand for this because I absolutely would not stand for

00:40:56.220 that action.

00:40:56.680 So, so, so, do not stand for a man putting his hands on a woman.

00:41:00.680 Of course.

00:41:01.500 I would tell you, I hope not, but let, take me back to this moment on the couch.

00:41:06.420 P. Diddy leaves the room.

00:41:08.040 You guys were doing whatever you were doing.

00:41:10.620 He leaves the room, stops.

00:41:12.200 She turns away.

00:41:13.200 You try to talk to her.

00:41:14.000 She says, we're not, we're not even supposed to talk.

00:41:15.760 She just goes into her own head.

00:41:20.080 At this moment, before that, I could see how you could tell yourself, well, hey, it's all

00:41:25.360 just fun, this is what they want to do, and I'm just part of what they want to do, and

00:41:29.440 I'm just here to serve the client, keep the customer satisfied.

00:41:32.900 At this moment, does it dawn on you, hey, maybe, maybe she doesn't want to be doing this.

00:41:39.820 Maybe not in those exact terms, but I was like, it was like, whoa, follow her lead, you know,

00:41:46.340 like, oh, shit, this is okay.

00:41:48.980 She's telling me something.

00:41:50.400 When they asked on News Nation, did you sense fear?

00:41:52.720 And I said, I didn't sense fear, but it was, it was because I was in the presence of a survivor.

00:41:57.420 Not, not just a survivor, but my mom helped me correlate these thoughts of a, not a victim,

00:42:04.440 but she's a survivor.

00:42:05.560 That's how she was.

00:42:06.220 She was, she was not a victim there, but she was a survivor, and she knew that to get through

00:42:11.340 this situation and possibly not get a beat down, she couldn't talk without her.

00:42:15.000 So why didn't she leave?

00:42:16.920 Why did, she tried to leave that night in the hotel, and then he drags, she was at the,

00:42:20.980 on video, she was at the, the elevator, and he catches her right before the elevator and

00:42:25.840 drags her back and kicks her and hits her and beats her, and he's just a complete animal,

00:42:29.240 a savage.

00:42:29.740 Uh, but, but in that moment, he leaves, she could have run away.

00:42:35.880 No, maybe not.

00:42:36.760 Maybe she's got some psychological damage.

00:42:39.300 The arms of, this is where, too, I'm a simple man.

00:42:42.000 I'm a, like I said, I'm a Hawaii boy.

00:42:43.820 Things are very, I look at things very simply.

00:42:45.840 I know things are very complicated, but when you break things down, uh, simply, you, you

00:42:51.840 can, it helps, helps me to understand them.

00:42:54.220 Um, why didn't she leave?

00:42:57.320 The arms of whatever system Diddy has are much bigger than any we can perceive, that

00:43:03.440 we know of.

00:43:04.420 And I say this because Diddy one time, and this is after a great session, so there's a

00:43:09.460 few, a few moments where I realized, like, I, I understood my place in a sense.

00:43:14.900 So one time, Diddy, uh, he, I get, so every time I go, I have to turn off the phone, hand

00:43:20.100 it to him first thing, hand him the phone, they take the phone every session.

00:43:23.520 And at the end of the night, comes, hands the phone in the cash, and he's like, he

00:43:27.640 comes up to me, and this was like, it was nothing, this was like very, seemed like very

00:43:31.620 cordial.

00:43:32.220 No, like everything went smooth, and he's handing me my phone and stuff, he's like, hey

00:43:35.840 man, you know I know everyone's grandma and shit, right, and where they live?

00:43:38.840 And I'm just like, yeah, we're good.

00:43:41.920 And he's like, all right, all right.

00:43:43.820 So it's one of the, I just had to look at him, I didn't want to be like, he tells me.

00:43:47.700 You know where, I know where everyone's grandma.

00:43:50.160 He said, you know I know where everybody and their grandma lives, right?

00:43:54.000 And then I just had to, you know, I had to think, I had to pause, I didn't want to be

00:43:58.200 like, I know people too.

00:44:00.240 I know where your grandma lives, did he?

00:44:02.180 I know where you live, you know, I didn't want to play none of that game, so I just had

00:44:05.740 to like, I absorbed it and I realized, oh, I know what he's saying, you know.

00:44:10.580 He's threatening you.

00:44:11.280 In a sense, yeah, saying it without saying it.

00:44:14.140 And he's like, all right, and I started to look, I'm like, yeah, we're good, we're

00:44:17.120 good, man.

00:44:18.400 And so he's like, all right, all right, I had to use my phone.

00:44:20.860 So I was just like, so I just had to take it.

00:44:22.540 So he knows, he knows that what he's doing is bad.

00:44:26.340 He knows that it's degenerate, would be damaging to his reputation, even his reputation.

00:44:30.660 Well, and I got another story to back that up.

00:44:33.420 So, one time, I, I mean, at that time especially, I was fascinated by Cassie, and so I would bring

00:44:44.180 her gifts.

00:44:44.680 I had a duffel bag, I had a duffel bag with gifts and outfits or whatever, you know, to,

00:44:52.300 we didn't really go too deep into it, but.

00:44:54.140 Gifts, like, just for her or for the performance?

00:44:56.840 Just for her?

00:44:57.480 Just for her.

00:44:58.020 How much are they paying you?

00:44:58.800 Those are my highest paying clients.

00:45:01.700 They paid well.

00:45:02.460 I can imagine.

00:45:03.920 They paid pretty well.

00:45:05.140 I'm not, I'm not a wise spender, so I would take a portion of what they paid me and I

00:45:09.680 would go buy her gifts.

00:45:11.500 That's very nice, very generous.

00:45:13.960 But I have this, I had a bag, I had a duffel bag with some outfits and a couple gifts and

00:45:18.460 stuff.

00:45:19.340 I have my watch.

00:45:20.560 So I put my bag down on a counter and like, the setting was somewhat like this, but it

00:45:25.280 was more of like a counter against the wall with some drawers and stuff.

00:45:27.800 I put my bag on the side and I had a G-Shock and I put it on the table and we go through

00:45:33.020 the whole night, the whole session and get everything done, put my watch up, go to the

00:45:37.440 door and we're wrapping up.

00:45:40.680 And he's all, yeah, yeah, that watch, that one of those, this is what, like five, six,

00:45:45.660 seven or eight years ago?

00:45:46.920 Yeah.

00:45:47.300 It's not more.

00:45:48.460 It's like, yeah, hey, that watch did, that one of them with them cameras in it?

00:45:51.240 And I was like, and then I was like, my mind spins, I was like, oh yeah, it was on the

00:45:55.780 counter.

00:45:56.120 I was like, oh snap.

00:45:57.600 I must've been facing out.

00:45:59.540 And I'm guessing he saw that.

00:46:00.920 So I'm like, this?

00:46:02.200 Oh no, it's a G-Shock.

00:46:03.000 I was like, oh no, dude, you know what?

00:46:04.420 No, it doesn't.

00:46:05.180 Here, you guys think, he's like, oh no, we're good, we're good.

00:46:07.220 No need.

00:46:07.660 Someone just don't got a camera.

00:46:08.620 And I'm like, we're good, man.

00:46:10.580 I was like, you know what?

00:46:11.240 Guilty man flees when none pursueth.

00:46:14.320 So you left the watch.

00:46:15.740 Yeah, I dumped it.

00:46:16.460 I was like, you know what, man, I don't want to, I was like, I don't want you to have any

00:46:18.860 thoughts.

00:46:19.460 I was like, yeah, you know what, dude?

00:46:20.620 So I was like, no, man, like right here.

00:46:21.940 And I was like, nope, I just dropped it in the trash.

00:46:23.980 And I was just like, it's not worth it.

00:46:25.640 This is a 50 buck watch.

00:46:27.120 A G-Shock's a nice watch.

00:46:28.360 I love him.

00:46:29.180 Yeah.

00:46:29.780 But he obviously was paranoid, as he should be.

00:46:34.260 That line of, it's a great line of scripture.

00:46:36.900 The guilty flee when none pursueth.

00:46:39.380 You're all, if you're doing bad stuff, you, first of all, everyone knows someone's watching.

00:46:43.480 Yes.

00:46:43.700 Someone up there's watching.

00:46:44.820 And so you, all of a sudden you think, does someone, does that guy, does my coworker know?

00:46:49.620 Does, does my wife know the thing that I just did?

00:46:52.700 I, yeah.

00:46:53.880 I don't think you threaten, I'm going to go kill your grandma.

00:46:57.180 If it's just, you know, people might write mean things about me online.

00:47:00.980 And I'm assuming he thought I would turn around and write a book or something, you know,

00:47:04.140 to expose, but I'm not that guy.

00:47:05.700 Like, even, like, I, like when this all happened, my phone starts blowing up, you know, going

00:47:11.480 into the trial.

00:47:13.500 And, you know, I didn't know how to take it.

00:47:15.620 It just, it was a storm.

00:47:17.220 But, I just, I get, that's the only reason I did give a few interviews.

00:47:20.940 I just wanted my side to be heard.

00:47:22.580 A lot of my buddies back home are like, oh, what did he do to him, man?

00:47:27.580 What the heck?

00:47:28.920 People's minds wander.

00:47:30.000 He didn't do anything to me.

00:47:31.120 He didn't do anything to me.

00:47:32.640 He paid me to sleep with his girlfriend.

00:47:35.100 And, you know, but, you know, people's minds will wander and they have the right to, we

00:47:38.500 all assume things.

00:47:39.520 So, Diddy beats the racketeering charges, which are the really serious charges, like he's running

00:47:44.300 a major criminal enterprise.

00:47:45.840 Do you think, in your fairly extensive experience, in his criminal enterprise, alleged criminal

00:47:53.780 enterprise, should he have been found guilty?

00:47:57.140 If you were on the jury, would you have voted to find him guilty?

00:47:59.560 I would have to see the evidence, but.

00:48:03.720 You saw some of it up close.

00:48:04.900 Yeah.

00:48:05.980 With what I've experienced, yeah, absolutely.

00:48:09.020 There's arms to what he did.

00:48:11.140 You know, this operation doesn't happen.

00:48:13.380 It has to have an orchestrator.

00:48:15.200 Simply, the symphony doesn't, it would sound like a bunch of banging rackets and it would

00:48:20.400 have been a mess.

00:48:20.920 But, these are operations.

00:48:22.480 So, in a sense, like, you know, I did many events.

00:48:25.740 And so, as I go into the situation, I see the bottles and everything, I was like, wow,

00:48:28.980 this is a production.

00:48:29.900 You know, that's like one of my first thoughts.

00:48:31.280 Like, this is a production.

00:48:32.060 I'm like, after two, I realize it's Diddy.

00:48:34.740 I'm like, yeah, I don't see Diddy up here putting these bottles.

00:48:36.880 And, you know, I don't necessarily think that's a crime, setting up a situation.

00:48:42.560 But, everyone knows what's going on, you know.

00:48:45.380 And, so, in a sense, too, that's what I've come to realize is a way that the rich and powerful

00:48:50.900 get away with things, a term called plausible deniability, you know.

00:48:54.280 So, he was always one step removed.

00:48:56.680 And, so, he's got this kind of...

00:48:57.260 And, I believe he understands the game to a level.

00:49:00.720 And, he has people and places that can do things and move things in order to get his

00:49:06.660 desired outcome and such.

00:49:08.640 So, when he threatened you, were you afraid?

00:49:12.380 No.

00:49:12.880 No.

00:49:13.300 No.

00:49:13.680 Like, I mean, it's just like, I see myself as like, I'm like, dude, I'm a nobody.

00:49:19.600 Like, come on, man.

00:49:20.700 But, you're a nobody.

00:49:21.320 You don't waste so much time.

00:49:22.240 But, you got dirt on him.

00:49:23.360 You might be kind of a nobody, meaning you're not rich and famous.

00:49:28.780 But, you have knowledge about bad things he's doing, which means you have leverage, which

00:49:33.480 means you have power.

00:49:34.220 Well, first and foremost, I serve God.

00:49:35.620 So, it's like, if you're going to send me to my maker quicker, go for it, buddy.

00:49:38.440 Like, come on.

00:49:39.740 If you're going to send me to a better place quicker, come on.

00:49:43.340 And, if God doesn't want it, have fun, buddy.

00:49:45.340 It'll be fun for you.

00:49:46.660 But, I guess that's a good attitude to have, generally.

00:49:49.980 We don't want to have servile fear.

00:49:51.320 We want holy fear.

00:49:52.540 But, now, Diddy could have faced life in prison.

00:49:55.700 He could have died in prison.

00:49:57.840 Given the outcome of the trial, he'll face four or five years.

00:50:00.660 He hasn't been sentenced yet, as of our conversation.

00:50:04.020 If you were afraid then, before you had spilled anything publicly, before any of this had come to

00:50:09.080 light, are you not at least a little bit afraid of reprisal now?

00:50:13.240 This guy's got tentacles, arms, issues.

00:50:15.840 You're not at all afraid of reprisal?

00:50:17.460 No, I'm, no.

00:50:20.080 Do you think he might try to have a reprisal?

00:50:22.960 If he sees something like, I mean, if, I doubt it.

00:50:26.120 I mean, I'm a small twig in this big old tree.

00:50:28.940 But, if he wants to waste energy on me, have fun.

00:50:31.560 I'll play the game.

00:50:32.460 I mean, I'm not welcoming it.

00:50:34.740 I'm not trying to call him out or anything.

00:50:36.660 But, I respect how they respected me.

00:50:40.320 And, I don't respect his conduct.

00:50:42.720 But, it is what it is.

00:50:43.980 I move forward.

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00:52:06.620 Did you have, as you're sitting on the couch or afterward, and you realize, okay, this woman, she's a survivor.

00:52:14.720 You say, she's not afraid, and she's not a victim, but she's a survivor, which means she's surviving some bad experience, which means if she's sensible at all, she's got some fear of more bad experiences, and she's been victimized at some point such that she could survive.

00:52:30.120 Did you ever have any moral qualms to say, man, she doesn't like this, and I'm being used to inflict this on her?

00:52:39.900 I struggled.

00:52:41.880 I didn't see it like that in perspective.

00:52:43.940 I didn't see, I guess just my passion to serve.

00:52:47.840 I just was blinded by the situation.

00:52:50.220 I'm here to serve.

00:52:52.360 I'm going to do my duty.

00:52:53.620 Serve the client.

00:52:54.420 In this case, the client's did.

00:52:55.300 And it took, it did take me, you know, I guess, I wouldn't say a few years, but it took me to, you know, to step out of that situation in a sense, like I guess call it breaking out of the matrix for me to see it for what it was.

00:53:06.220 Because, so there's other situations too, where like my mindset, I couldn't see it for the evil it was, especially being, obviously, I don't want to think I'm that evil.

00:53:17.900 Yes, is that, is that why, because look, we've all done it.

00:53:21.120 Whenever, I've been terrible and, well, we're all sinners, but I've been, I've been worse than at other times, you know, in my life.

00:53:29.540 And in the moment, you don't see it as clearly as you do in retrospect.

00:53:35.440 Because what?

00:53:36.140 Because you don't, I said, well, I can't be the bad guy.

00:53:38.420 And for me, it was, I like to please, I like to serve.

00:53:42.440 If I'm not doing it, like some other wicked douchebag might come in and service these ladies, but it's not in the same spiritual context.

00:53:52.560 Like, you know, I give my, I wouldn't say give my soul, but I do give my heart to those times.

00:53:56.980 I listen fully, you know, and so my thought was, well, if I'm not going to see them, some other guys will.

00:54:04.240 They're not going to give them, you know, the desire.

00:54:07.220 I'm going to give it my all.

00:54:08.420 If you're going to engage in an exploitative act or if you're going to be subjected to an exploitative act, better it be with me than with some bad guy.

00:54:16.380 Yeah.

00:54:16.780 That was somewhat the, I guess, how I made it okay in my own mind, you know.

00:54:22.800 And I guess the attention, too, kind of made me blind to it.

00:54:25.740 The fact that, you know, the fact that people would pay for my image, I'm like, this world's crazy.

00:54:31.020 Right.

00:54:31.160 When I started modeling, then people, then women would pay me for my time.

00:54:34.780 I'm like, these ladies are even crazier, but I must be doing something right.

00:54:38.880 And if I can, you know, obviously I'm going to pay for it, but if I can serve someone and put a smile on someone's face, I'll do it.

00:54:46.440 And even though I, now that I respect how degrading it is, my conversation with those women that maybe want to spend time with me, the conversation would be different.

00:54:53.800 You know, I would try to lead it in different directions and I would not sleep with them.

00:54:58.420 Right.

00:54:58.620 You know, I, I've, I'm not, I'm not that guy anymore, but I, I do want to have heart to heart.

00:55:03.600 Right, right.

00:55:04.040 Because that, that seems to be the thread.

00:55:05.620 The through line of all of this is you want to, you want to please people.

00:55:08.540 And even, you know, as you say, these women want this service and you say, well, I want to give it to them.

00:55:13.760 Even if it's not good for them.

00:55:15.160 I, I, there's one time I remember I was out with a buddy.

00:55:17.260 We were at a cigar bar late at night, you know, having, having a smoke, having some drinks.

00:55:20.800 We go out and a bum on the street comes up and he says, hey, can you give me money?

00:55:25.380 And I said, what do you want the money for?

00:55:27.640 Food?

00:55:29.540 Food.

00:55:29.980 I said, you don't want, you're not going to, you, you are not, don't lie to me.

00:55:32.780 You're not going to use this money to get food.

00:55:34.540 And he was like, no, you're right.

00:55:35.460 I'm going to use this money to get a drink.

00:55:37.180 And I said, okay, well, I can't, I can't give it to you.

00:55:41.540 And he says, why not?

00:55:42.940 You've been drinking.

00:55:43.920 I was like, I have been drinking, but drinking's not that bad for me.

00:55:47.760 I don't need to drink.

00:55:48.580 It doesn't make my life worse.

00:55:49.940 But drinking would be bad for you because it would make your life worse.

00:55:53.920 And I don't want to participate in making your life worse.

00:55:56.960 And that was how we left it.

00:55:58.240 He was cool.

00:55:59.000 He was fine with it.

00:56:00.860 So when you say, well, if I were going on these dates now, the conversations would be different.

00:56:06.180 Yeah.

00:56:06.540 Is that the distinction?

00:56:07.760 Yeah.

00:56:08.040 It would be much more depth of what are you seeking?

00:56:10.800 You want temporary pleasure?

00:56:12.100 What's the.

00:56:12.700 What's really good for you?

00:56:13.700 Yeah.

00:56:14.180 Because that's, and that's one thing took me.

00:56:16.400 I'm one, I doubt things till I see it or live it, you know.

00:56:18.980 And so, you know, this is another instance of while in a situation like that and, you know, living in Sodom and Gomorrah, basically in L.A. where it's just pure sin.

00:56:28.960 Yeah.

00:56:29.100 But there was a moment, this is where it was just a kind of affirmation of the Holy Spirit.

00:56:36.680 Again, on a couch doing her thing.

00:56:38.620 And Diddy kind of walked around in the kitchen.

00:56:40.340 So he was present this time.

00:56:41.600 And she kind of sits back, kind of sits back.

00:56:44.040 And she's like, I don't know.

00:56:45.860 It's just something about you.

00:56:46.960 There's like an energy or spirit just about you.

00:56:49.200 I don't know.

00:56:49.500 It's different.

00:56:50.080 But I like it.

00:56:51.160 And it's pretty awesome.

00:56:52.360 And I just was like, what?

00:56:53.940 I was like, what would make her say that?

00:56:55.920 Like, you know, what, how, what would make her feel like something about me?

00:57:01.520 And I come to realize that was probably my mom on her hands and knees praying for me at that moment in time.

00:57:05.660 Yeah.

00:57:05.940 That's right.

00:57:07.320 Yeah.

00:57:07.780 Hold on.

00:57:08.160 So this is another, you become a model and then a gigolo and then a gigolo for Puff Daddy.

00:57:16.140 Does your family know about this?

00:57:17.940 No, I didn't tell anyone.

00:57:19.120 No way.

00:57:19.720 No, it's not one.

00:57:21.000 I didn't bash, like no one I worked with knew.

00:57:23.120 I don't think, I think I, I had kind of made a side reference.

00:57:28.140 I never talked straight up because I respect my clients and I don't.

00:57:30.800 Because you, you pointed off camera because you met my producer, Ben Davies, doing catering jobs back in the day.

00:57:37.340 So you, and so, but you weren't telling people that you were doing this.

00:57:41.280 I never dated girls at my work and I never, I didn't, I didn't talk about this.

00:57:45.220 No, this was, yeah, I didn't find necessarily, I wasn't proud of it necessarily.

00:57:52.940 But I, I, I appreciated serving women and making decent money.

00:57:57.540 I was able to live, survive there in LA.

00:57:59.640 I wasn't a wise investor, which I should have been, but I was able to just, you know, get by decently and yeah.

00:58:06.680 And you didn't expect to be brought up by prosecutors in a major criminal case years later.

00:58:14.740 Yeah.

00:58:15.140 And they, that's the thing too.

00:58:16.480 I get, I just got blasted.

00:58:18.060 It was on a Monday, just get blasted by every outlet, CNN, NBC.

00:58:22.680 And they're all, I realized, because the people article would come out.

00:58:25.160 There's a guy, actually a decent, there's this guy.

00:58:27.620 I don't like, I don't like media personnel.

00:58:29.520 I do not like the media because in my job, I realized too, like I was, I was that fly on the wall.

00:58:34.960 You know, I'd be serving behind places.

00:58:37.360 And then you hear people talk about like people in the media.

00:58:39.520 It's like, it doesn't matter what the hell the truth is.

00:58:41.620 It just matters what make the peasants believe.

00:58:43.740 It's just, you just got to make your truth, their truth.

00:58:46.180 I don't hear these things like, huh?

00:58:48.320 You know, I'm sorry, my brain, I forget where I was going with that.

00:58:51.900 Keep going with that.

00:58:52.820 Because you're working, as you say, you're only working the gigolo jobs a handful of days per month.

00:59:00.700 That's not, you have other days, you're working other jobs, you're catering.

00:59:04.040 So you're getting a really direct view of Gamora by the Sea when you're cocking Puff Daddy.

00:59:09.360 But you're getting another view of Gamora by the Sea when you're overhearing these hotshot A-listers at the parties.

00:59:16.080 Executives talking about.

00:59:16.880 So what are they saying?

00:59:17.540 And stuff about how, oh, we'll have, oh, well, we're going to have this in the film.

00:59:22.780 And people would talk about like how they would set up social constructs or social narratives.

00:59:27.120 They would talk about, you know, I didn't directly hear about the transgender movement.

00:59:31.860 But they would talk about how they would implement ideas through their show.

00:59:36.660 And then, well, they know this person at the Department of Education.

00:59:40.420 And then they know this person over here to enable to work this out.

00:59:44.140 So if there's ever any legal recourse, I know the prosecutor.

00:59:47.040 So let's go.

00:59:48.360 Talking about instilling messages in their media and stuff like subliminal type messages and things like that, too.

00:59:55.620 And this is the thing, too.

00:59:56.340 At the time, I'm a fly on the wall.

00:59:57.600 And I'm like, I'm hearing this, but I'm thinking, no, people aren't that stupid.

01:00:01.360 And then this is at the time where, you know, algorithms growing up and people are doing everything algorithm based.

01:00:05.780 And even as I'm hearing them say this behind closed doors, my soul is thinking, oh, people aren't that stupid.

01:00:11.480 People can think for themselves.

01:00:12.460 And then you see things like the Tide Pod Challenge come out on Snapchat and things like this, where, you know.

01:00:18.440 That was when Zoomers were eating Tide Pods, right?

01:00:21.300 That was there.

01:00:21.700 And it's, you know, you hear and there was a party that I had worked on.

01:00:27.600 It was on the Hermosa Beach Pier.

01:00:28.700 And it was somewhere in the early days.

01:00:29.720 I think it's been around a few years now, one or two.

01:00:32.740 And so it was sort of a pretty awesome party there on the pier.

01:00:37.400 And you hear guys talking about like, oh, yeah, well, that stupid bitch in high school.

01:00:42.520 I just got to tweak an algorithm and she's sending me nudes and stuff.

01:00:45.700 It's just like, you hear how they can just, you know, create the realities for, and like these people who are running these platforms and stuff, all they got to do is put in a few algorithms.

01:00:57.540 Yeah.

01:00:57.880 I could just go, eh, kill that algorithm.

01:01:00.160 But they're like, this is funny.

01:01:01.800 How many people will, how many will we get?

01:01:04.600 Well, and there's a parallel, too, because you're saying the part that's so confusing for people is why, if you're a rich, powerful guy, would you pay some dude to sleep with your girlfriend?

01:01:13.600 And so what's about the control?

01:01:15.280 And here you're talking about the control from the level of the media executives down to just random degenerates in Hollywood.

01:01:21.880 And so, look, this is the, as far as I'm concerned, primordial sin.

01:01:27.460 This desire to be in control of everything, to make yourself into God.

01:01:31.680 You know, you shall be as gods is the promise from the serpent in the garden.

01:01:35.620 It's the premise of the liberal ideology, which is no men, no gods, no kings, only men.

01:01:41.940 And we're going to make ourselves gods.

01:01:43.300 We're going to remake the world as we like.

01:01:44.900 So, okay, all of this is tracking my philosophical priors.

01:01:49.940 But what about your moral reality?

01:01:52.040 You're in this, you're working your catering jobs, then however many times per month,

01:01:56.360 you're going over, doing the gigolo gigs, cuckolding Puff Daddy, having this nice, apparently nice relationship with Cassie, his girlfriend.

01:02:07.100 How do you get out of it?

01:02:08.720 How do you get out of the Puff Daddy freak-off scene?

01:02:13.020 And how do you get out of gigoloing?

01:02:14.760 When I realized that, you know, that thought of, I want to provide them, I want to give them the best experience, I want to provide them with a good time,

01:02:27.420 and I realized how detrimental it really was for them.

01:02:33.660 And it was, so one threshold that helped me see the depths of evil to this, and how I personally was blinded by the narrative and my own.

01:02:45.200 And contributing to it.

01:02:46.420 Huh?

01:02:46.780 And contributing to it by participating.

01:02:48.360 Exactly.

01:02:48.900 Yeah.

01:02:49.240 So there was one client I had, he was the Dean of Medicine.

01:02:53.100 The only reason I'm going to say this now, because he was arrested in like 2018.

01:02:57.600 Okay.

01:02:59.360 That's a sick individual, by the way.

01:03:01.780 And so he was a client of mine, and...

01:03:04.760 Sorry, don't mean to laugh.

01:03:07.180 You're talking about a guy at a prestigious school in a very serious position in medicine, engaging in a threat to public health, and...

01:03:19.380 And this is how it gets so...

01:03:21.420 So he had a young girl, about 21, 22, and this is where...

01:03:28.280 How old is he?

01:03:29.300 Like 68 at the time.

01:03:30.760 And this is how I got to see the true dark side, and how my own mindset, how clouded my own judgment was.

01:03:39.980 So she, or there's a box, you know, about yay big, off to the side.

01:03:46.080 He opens it up, and it's got about six, seven, eight different hardcore drugs in it.

01:03:51.920 And so they get a pipe, put some, I guess, meth in it, and just light it up right there and start smoking it.

01:03:56.980 And in my own mind, I'm thinking, well, that's the dean of medicine.

01:04:01.980 He must know what drugs are safe.

01:04:03.980 He must know how to pass the drug test.

01:04:05.680 I guess the drug test deems that you...

01:04:07.860 And then I'm like, that's...

01:04:08.840 No.

01:04:09.640 Yeah.

01:04:09.800 That's how twisted this all is.

01:04:12.180 And what really disgusted me is how, you know, you would see articles written in media outlets where I would have, you know, I would have a session with the dean of medicine, and he's a disgusting...

01:04:24.180 Degenerate.

01:04:25.280 Degenerate.

01:04:25.680 And then you would hear the source of the information, the source for the information in that article was the dean of medicine.

01:04:35.020 So I'm just like, like, that's where I'm like, like, that's sick that they're...

01:04:40.360 I forget what the topic was.

01:04:41.680 It was a long time.

01:04:42.520 It was a while back, but there was things of concern.

01:04:45.260 And the LA Times would be like, you know, headline, do this.

01:04:49.080 Source.

01:04:49.780 Like, I was smoking last night.

01:04:51.760 Yeah, well, I didn't indulge.

01:04:54.920 I...

01:04:55.280 I at least saw him smoking meth.

01:04:57.120 Yes.

01:04:57.660 And what this is also what, you know, what I saw with some of the men that would, were cuckolds and would have me come in to please their ladies.

01:05:08.300 He would show me pictures and videos of about four or five black dudes doing things to her.

01:05:16.320 And I just, like, just would, just...

01:05:20.340 I did want to punch him in the face, but I was just utterly disgusted.

01:05:24.880 Yeah.

01:05:25.540 That's how degrading, yeah.

01:05:27.020 He's a sick, sick man.

01:05:28.080 At the same time?

01:05:29.120 Well, she went to, like, use the bathroom.

01:05:30.740 And he went, oh, yeah, look.

01:05:31.980 Look what we were doing last week.

01:05:33.460 And he's just showing me the videos of, like, four dudes.

01:05:37.500 I'm going to work on it.

01:05:38.640 And there was a moment where he walked out, and he wasn't as controlling as Diddy, but he walked out, and she's sitting next to me.

01:05:46.540 And my soul, I was just, like, my soul felt it.

01:05:49.760 It was one of those, I was just, like, wow.

01:05:51.780 And so I didn't know what to ask, but I just look at her, I was, like, hey, are you okay with all this?

01:05:58.800 Are you okay with all this?

01:06:00.220 And she was, like, well, my mom's a drug addict.

01:06:03.540 I'm a drug addict.

01:06:04.780 So I get to do this and have fun?

01:06:07.300 Yeah, I'm for it.

01:06:08.240 And I was just, like, oh.

01:06:10.480 He put the hooks in, you know, and he's going to keep.

01:06:13.680 Because there you have an admission that it's not even just that you get a girl who's psychologically messed up, but you get a girl who's a drug addict.

01:06:23.280 He's exploiting a girl who's a drug addict to feed his own degenerate sexual vices.

01:06:29.920 Yep.

01:06:30.480 That is sick stuff, man.

01:06:31.960 Because we were talking earlier about different conceptions of freedom.

01:06:37.300 That girl is not free.

01:06:39.120 I mean, if you're.

01:06:39.920 And from the outside looking in, people would be, like, you get to live in a mansion with this rich man and you've done nothing?

01:06:44.820 Yeah.

01:06:45.100 Yeah.

01:06:45.780 She's, like, lack of a doubt, she's a complete slave to the drug, well, him and the drugs, and she's an absolute slave in that situation.

01:06:52.600 Because she doesn't get her drugs.

01:06:54.840 She turns into, who knows if she turns into, well, he's got them.

01:06:57.840 So, do what I say.

01:06:59.060 So, what, the minute you say these Degens, who are, some of whom have, well, Puff Daddy is super rich, super famous, very powerful.

01:07:10.680 But then this other guy, it's almost worse because he's got this really white collar, mainstream, supposedly respectable job.

01:07:17.320 Not that I respect university administrators all that much.

01:07:20.900 You know, I'm a little skeptical of them generally.

01:07:22.680 But should be a very respectable job.

01:07:25.380 And they're engaging in this gross, gross stuff.

01:07:29.460 Are they porn addicts?

01:07:31.120 Are they?

01:07:32.080 Godless.

01:07:32.640 What led them to?

01:07:34.560 My assumption is they're godless.

01:07:37.000 And so, they, like.

01:07:38.440 Yeah.

01:07:39.120 They are.

01:07:39.740 I'm sorry to cut you off, and I want to hear your point on this.

01:07:41.300 I just mean at a very direct level, how would you even get the idea to invite four dudes over to abuse your girlfriend?

01:07:53.020 If you, is it, is it mimetic?

01:07:55.000 Did he see it?

01:07:55.840 Is he a porn addict?

01:07:57.260 I don't know.

01:07:57.560 I'm not asking you to excuse me.

01:07:58.640 I could, I'm assuming porn was the gateway, the ultimate gateway.

01:08:02.600 I don't know exactly, but it's one of those.

01:08:06.160 It's like, it's a degeneracy.

01:08:09.500 I don't know.

01:08:10.600 I can't comprehend.

01:08:11.920 It's just something I, I can't fathom, that level of degeneracy.

01:08:15.360 So you say, so you make the very good point with that, because obviously godlessness.

01:08:19.220 And yeah, because I, I love people.

01:08:20.640 Like, I, I could never do something so degrading to another individual.

01:08:24.660 And why?

01:08:25.440 Because God says do unto others as you would have done unto you.

01:08:28.040 And I can see, like, these guys, they don't get this type of, no one dictates what they do in this, this sort of way.

01:08:34.940 So, in a sense, like you said earlier, they're their own God.

01:08:38.540 And so this is how they, the only way they've, you know, that's a slippery slope that never ends if you serve Satan.

01:08:44.700 You know, that's a slippery slope.

01:08:45.660 Or we go straight down.

01:08:46.560 It's going to go deeper and get a lot hotter.

01:08:48.340 In fact, John Milton in Paradise Lost says, in the mouth of Satan, he says, the mind is its own place.

01:08:52.960 It can make a hell of heaven and heaven and hell.

01:08:54.500 Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven.

01:08:57.320 Which is, which is, which is why I say it's, this is the idea, this is at the heart of the ideology of liberalism.

01:09:04.100 But really, it goes back to the original sin.

01:09:06.940 So, you say, you see these guys, in your mind, you're saying, I'm a Christian, I believe in God, I'm spiritual, I'm feeling vibes of souls and stuff.

01:09:14.440 But you're looking around, you're saying, well, hold on.

01:09:17.000 The people I'm literally serving in this moment are godless.

01:09:21.900 Yeah.

01:09:22.840 And I'm serving them.

01:09:24.440 Yeah.

01:09:24.960 I, it would, yeah, yeah.

01:09:26.360 What does it say about me?

01:09:27.320 Yeah, it was hard for me.

01:09:28.220 I didn't recognize it as that.

01:09:29.760 See, my dream, too, as a kid was, my mom would always tell me, you better marry a Christian girl, you better marry a Christian girl.

01:09:36.600 And I see, I see why now.

01:09:38.120 This is, we're in a spiritual battle here in this world.

01:09:40.520 But my goal is, I love you, mom, but I want to, I want to bring them to Christ.

01:09:44.520 I want that challenge.

01:09:45.480 I want to bring them to Christ.

01:09:46.820 And so, I know that sounds very dark and twisted, but, like, if, I hope to be that pathway one day for, for anyone, if it's one person.

01:09:57.020 But what if you met, you're not married.

01:09:58.440 No, sir.

01:09:58.820 What if you met a nice Christian girl and you hit it off?

01:10:01.640 Would you say, well, no, I don't want to marry you because I want the challenge of converting a sinner?

01:10:05.360 No, I realize my flesh can mislead me.

01:10:08.820 In this battle, I want a partner.

01:10:10.920 I don't want to, I'm at the point where I want that boost, not the lift up, you know.

01:10:17.680 I don't want to be trying to drag someone into Christ's path.

01:10:21.520 I want that boost.

01:10:22.300 I want to work as a partnership in the spiritual war ring because that's what it is.

01:10:27.040 Probably a sign of maturity.

01:10:27.920 But, but, we've, I feel like we've skipped something.

01:10:33.080 You realize this is bad.

01:10:34.780 You realize you've made a mistake.

01:10:36.260 You realize you've got to get out of this.

01:10:38.180 Tell me about the last session with Diddy.

01:10:42.760 Tell me about the last session, period.

01:10:46.700 Tell me, nuts and bolts, how you get out of it.

01:10:49.520 I, I can't exactly recall the last session with Diddy because his was funny.

01:10:55.580 He actually called me because I had come home about eight years ago.

01:10:59.760 I went home to Hawaii and working on my family project.

01:11:02.200 We've got a family project out there and it was about three or four months I'd been home and Diddy calls me.

01:11:08.280 He calls me and it's like four in the morning out there and he calls me.

01:11:12.980 He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:13.680 You around?

01:11:14.720 And I was like, and this is where it goes into.

01:11:17.080 I was attempting, I was trying to talk to him and be like, hey man, you should probably come out to Hawaii sometime.

01:11:21.180 You know, I got this place where there would be no paparazzi or anything and he's like, click.

01:11:26.380 And I'm like, oh yeah, he's trying to get down to business.

01:11:29.680 I wasn't going to talk about doing any future services or nothing, but I wanted to possibly get him out to our property and like talk Christ with him.

01:11:37.460 I know that won't work, but that was, that was my goal.

01:11:39.440 My work, you, you're in Hawaii.

01:11:41.700 You get effectively a booty call from Puff Daddy.

01:11:44.920 You say, no, I'm not, not really doing that.

01:11:47.160 But anyway, you want to come hang out and get some pineapple.

01:11:49.880 And before he hangs up on it, yeah.

01:11:53.340 I'm like, oh yeah, he just, he wants to get the business.

01:11:57.600 So, yeah.

01:11:58.960 When was this?

01:12:00.840 It was probably about four or five, five years ago.

01:12:03.400 Five or six.

01:12:05.140 So, okay, so you just, you can't recall the last time you worked for P. Diddy.

01:12:09.100 It was, you know, the sessions were, it was like moments like that when he would tell me, hey, my grandma, you know, I know people or, you know, that watch.

01:12:17.840 It was moments like that that stuck, but it had become a process in a sense.

01:12:21.500 I don't remember like the last one because I'm not like a numbers guy.

01:12:24.100 I have no idea.

01:12:24.840 Did you quit or did they just stop calling?

01:12:27.220 Because I had realized that this business operation was much darker than I thought.

01:12:33.880 And I had a conversation with Garen about, and I don't want to go too deep into it, but one of the actions of one of the other gigolos was very dirty, dark.

01:12:47.360 Like he was trying to plant his seeds into rich women, and I could see the game plan of what he was trying to do in a sense of impregnate these women and divorce them and just to screw them.

01:12:58.820 And so I saw this.

01:12:59.860 And to get money?

01:13:00.540 To get money.

01:13:00.960 Yeah, okay.

01:13:01.480 To get money for himself.

01:13:02.280 And this guy was, this guy was a demon.

01:13:03.780 This guy was a disgusting dude, a pathetic prick.

01:13:08.000 And what he would do is he would abuse these women mentally, and he would, the ladies told me the psychological abuse he used on them and the psychological games he played to have his plan come together.

01:13:18.780 But they're the ones hiring him.

01:13:20.940 So how does he, how can they claim to be abused by him?

01:13:24.240 They're the ones in charge.

01:13:26.120 That's, what is it, Stockholm Syndrome?

01:13:28.340 In a sense, like that's all I can contribute it to.

01:13:32.080 But it's where, you know, they had a connection with him, but then, you know, I guess with time, his true intentions would come through, and then so it would get dark.

01:13:43.180 And then, you know, they, he would, he would, they would, the ladies would tell me that he would tell them, hey, you have to see me.

01:13:49.520 Like, I, I'm coming.

01:13:50.940 Like, you know, you better be ready, because I'm coming.

01:13:53.500 And so they'd be like, all right, you know, like, okay.

01:13:56.500 And I guess it was a sense of submission, you know, and they just.

01:13:59.720 A sense of submission, like, like they were into it?

01:14:03.000 Sort of, you know, I guess in a say, in a way too.

01:14:05.640 Like, even this guy was twisted and distorted, and I'm kind of just the very, I'm the opposite.

01:14:10.400 Like, I love to serve, I'll do anything for you.

01:14:12.240 You want me to go get this, I'll do that.

01:14:14.000 Well, he was the, like, I own you, and you're going to do this for me.

01:14:18.100 I'm assuming, you know, and those are the stories he told.

01:14:20.180 So this actually, okay, this starts to make sense, and it helps to make sense of the Cassie P. Diddy situation too, which is, you could say,

01:14:28.940 in this situation, the woman could say, I want a man to be really mean to me.

01:14:33.720 That's what I, that's what I'm paying for.

01:14:35.100 Yeah.

01:14:35.500 I want that.

01:14:36.420 I could see, I do see how that was, and it's one of those things, getting into it, I never thought that a woman would want that.

01:14:42.380 I thought women want to be treated like queens, princesses, but there is a side that, like, women, some women do like to be choked.

01:14:48.380 Some women do like to get, you know, they like to know the man's in control.

01:14:52.660 But this is what, this is what St. Paul talks about, when St. Paul says, the things I want to do, I don't do, and the things that I don't want to do, I do.

01:14:59.840 That, that to a modern liberal person doesn't make any sense, because you do the things you want to do, and you don't do the things that you don't want to do.

01:15:08.300 But that's not how human nature works.

01:15:10.840 We do, there are parts of us that are concupiscent, that want, that just want to sin, that want, want some guy to beat him up, or want some, you know, some, for the guys, want, want to do some gross thing with a woman.

01:15:23.700 And you, you can, you're the lower part of you can want that, whereas the higher part of you can know, I don't really want that.

01:15:28.600 So how do you reconcile those things?

01:15:32.960 And so I guess that was kind of the, what pushed me out the door, is when I realized that this was much darker, and wasn't as friendly to the women as I thought.

01:15:49.620 And the relationship that the owner of the company and these ladies had, when I, when I had informed him of some of the actions of one of his men, and how, on, of this company I thought it was, and just, just outright.

01:16:08.460 Unchivalrousy.

01:16:09.080 Yeah, and just, there were things that this could, like, destroy the company, because what he's doing, if these women hire a good lawyer and play this out, this all could come back around.

01:16:18.260 So I was trying to inform him, like, hey, you got to get rid of this guy, because here's what's going on.

01:16:21.500 His response was, it's business.

01:16:23.600 This isn't your business.

01:16:25.660 This is none of your business.

01:16:27.040 And this is business.

01:16:28.100 And then he was like, did you guys exchange numbers?

01:16:30.240 And I was like, dude, yeah, we did.

01:16:31.780 Because there were times she was on her, you know, she wasn't doing so well, and she reached out to me, and I had a conversation with her.

01:16:37.380 And I was like, I'll give you back any money you want, and I'll pay you whatever you want, because she did, you know, we did communicate.

01:16:44.000 He was like, no, no, we're good, we're done.

01:16:45.440 I was like, all right, I'm done.

01:16:46.520 I ain't going to play this game.

01:16:48.720 Once I realized that it was, that's when I realized, like, it was for the company, it was just, it's a business, it's money.

01:16:54.900 So whatever we've got to do to show up, show up more.

01:16:58.240 Even if you've got to degrade these women, put them down, it doesn't matter, more business.

01:17:01.860 I wasn't for that.

01:17:02.960 Right, right, because you would hope that at some point the owner of the agency and the workers would say, well, people aren't commodities to be bought and sold.

01:17:11.880 Exactly.

01:17:12.200 People are people, but it also sheds light on the freak-offs, because I can totally understand in principle how the freak-off started, because it's like any party.

01:17:23.080 It's like the Garden of Earthly Delights.

01:17:24.680 It's like, it starts at, wouldn't this be fun if we all, hey, let's all have a drink.

01:17:30.120 That's fun, right?

01:17:30.700 Having a drink is fun.

01:17:31.520 Well, you know what's more fun than one drink is two drinks.

01:17:34.140 And you know what's more fun than two drinks?

01:17:36.080 By the way, that part's true.

01:17:37.280 Two drinks is more fun than one drink.

01:17:38.860 And then you know what's more fun than two drinks?

01:17:40.240 Ten drinks.

01:17:40.860 That part's not true.

01:17:41.840 Actually, ten drinks is less fun than two drinks.

01:17:43.700 But okay.

01:17:44.280 And you know what's fun?

01:17:45.120 What if we had a bunch of our girlfriends here?

01:17:48.000 That could be fun.

01:17:49.100 And what if we had, like, multiple girlfriends here?

01:17:52.020 Well, hold on.

01:17:52.460 That sounds like it's more fun.

01:17:53.780 I mean, you know, 99 problems, and, you know, sometimes you get, sometimes more money is more problems, too.

01:17:59.560 I'm learning all these lessons from rappers, but all of a sudden, you can very easily see how what started out as, like, more, more, more, fun, fun, fun, becomes tedious, tedious, painful, nauseating, just gross.

01:18:18.200 And that's exactly, I mean, not necessarily exactly, but that portrays my journey in that industry.

01:18:23.800 It was, like, in the beginning, very, seemed very, I'm able to provide a service for these ladies.

01:18:29.340 They get what they want, in a sense.

01:18:31.060 They get the time spent with a man without the hassle.

01:18:33.780 Hey, win-win.

01:18:35.000 But as, like, it got more into it, and, like, the more times I spent with Diddy and Cassie, it's, like, it devolved into, you could just feel, in a sense, the spirit darken and the mood.

01:18:44.160 And it was a lot more orchestrated rather than flow, you know.

01:18:48.380 It was much more dictated than in the early days, you know.

01:18:51.280 So the early performances were more improvised, you're saying?

01:18:56.020 It seemed, I mean, I don't know how long they'd been, I know they'd been seeing other guys prior to me, but it seemed a lot more fluid, you know, early on.

01:19:03.780 It seemed cordial, the spirit was softer, it seemed.

01:19:08.120 But, you know, I don't know if that was me coming in with clear eyes, in a sense.

01:19:12.000 Obviously, we've been talking about the male escort world.

01:19:15.400 Is it different for female escorts?

01:19:18.580 Is the experience different, the approach, the business?

01:19:22.380 Do you even know?

01:19:23.160 Would you even know that, since, obviously, you've only been on one side of it?

01:19:26.560 The truth is, yeah, I'm fairly clueless.

01:19:28.580 I didn't interact with too many female workers.

01:19:31.160 They didn't work at your company.

01:19:32.840 Yeah, we didn't work.

01:19:33.920 Even our guys, I didn't see any of the other guys on the team.

01:19:37.860 We didn't hang out much.

01:19:38.760 It just was a straightforward business operation, in a sense.

01:19:41.740 He tells us time and place, and we show up.

01:19:44.580 Yeah, I would like to try to understand it from a woman's perspective, but I haven't had a sit down and chat.

01:19:52.960 But I would like to try to understand it.

01:19:54.940 And my assumption would be, you know, especially in that scene in L.A., seeing like how, one thing, I didn't realize attention was such a drug, you know.

01:20:03.240 And so, that was one thing, too, with this.

01:20:07.040 I didn't necessarily get that high from attention, but, of course, it does feel good to be wanted or appreciated by a woman and such.

01:20:14.540 But, you know, I do believe the attention, along with the money, has a large factor to play for a woman.

01:20:22.240 Now, all of these experiences you've been describing with Diddy were at, it seems like it was more private.

01:20:28.540 It was just you at their house or the hotel or something.

01:20:31.040 Were you ever at the infamous freak-offs?

01:20:35.040 No, I never attended any of the freak-offs.

01:20:37.420 That's good.

01:20:38.520 I'm very grateful because I'm the type, too, if there's a party, I like to party.

01:20:45.320 But I'm also very respectful of my own sexual ways.

01:20:51.960 So, I mean, I'm glad I didn't.

01:20:54.740 Who knows what would have happened at a Diddy party.

01:20:57.280 But I never was.

01:20:58.000 It was only me, him, and her, no bodyguards, none of that.

01:21:01.300 Huh.

01:21:01.620 Oh, wow.

01:21:02.260 No.

01:21:03.820 It was just us.

01:21:04.760 Did you ever, because I know at the parties, he hired female prostitutes, too.

01:21:09.540 Or at least that was alleged.

01:21:10.800 But there were no female prostitutes involved in your experience.

01:21:14.600 Well, yeah.

01:21:15.440 And that's like.

01:21:16.540 Wow.

01:21:16.980 I couldn't understand it.

01:21:18.720 I didn't understand how.

01:21:19.760 Well, you know, but the guy said I was much different than their circle.

01:21:26.180 So.

01:21:26.460 I could see that.

01:21:27.500 Yeah.

01:21:27.880 I could definitely see that.

01:21:29.760 Wow.

01:21:30.360 So you actually had a closer, more intimate look at their dynamic and his perversity than

01:21:38.660 really just about anybody.

01:21:41.480 I can't confirm, but I.

01:21:43.360 The guys at the freak-offs, though, there's like a thousand of them.

01:21:45.860 For you, it's just you, him, and her.

01:21:48.080 Yeah, yeah.

01:21:49.000 Every time, yeah.

01:21:50.480 Outside of Diddy, did you.

01:21:55.380 Was it always just these intimate little escort dates, just one woman?

01:21:59.360 Or were you invited to other Hollywood parties?

01:22:02.340 And how different was the Diddy experience in the Diddy Empire from your run-of-the-mill

01:22:07.420 clients?

01:22:07.860 Uh, I would say just as far as like production goes.

01:22:12.140 So there, it was like there, so the other dates, you know, I'd go out, we'd go see the

01:22:17.920 town, have fun.

01:22:19.320 And then it would end up, you know, at a, at an intimate setting.

01:22:22.720 There, it just was always, it was always a production.

01:22:25.200 Every single time was for that scene, that point in time.

01:22:29.340 So, I was there to do my duty.

01:22:31.200 There was one time I got called at night and then called back again at 6 a.m.

01:22:35.060 So, I don't, I didn't know what was going on, but I don't know if they had a party in between

01:22:42.260 or what, but I was just, was.

01:22:43.860 Maybe they slept.

01:22:45.040 Possibly.

01:22:45.540 And got arrested up.

01:22:46.580 And then.

01:22:48.080 Yeah.

01:22:48.600 And you would just take the call.

01:22:50.040 Yeah.

01:22:50.440 Text their call.

01:22:51.540 You know, feed text.

01:22:52.260 This, this, you available this hour, this time, A-listers show up and the payment, you

01:22:57.600 know, I'd go to the bank, send him his, his payment and cycle repeats.

01:23:03.780 When you say the scene, what, what, with Diddy and, and Cassie, it sounds like, and then

01:23:12.140 you say they were dictatorial and you do this.

01:23:14.240 Was it, was it a performance like, you know, okay, I'm, you're the pizza boy now or something

01:23:19.200 or was it a, how, how directed, how scripted was it?

01:23:22.640 See, I, well, I, I was going to try to propose that to Diddy one day that we, I'm, cause I'm

01:23:27.100 like a, I'm not a white angel, but I'm white and I'm a lot softer than him.

01:23:31.560 So I was going to try to propose a setting where her and I are having dinner and, you know,

01:23:35.600 we get a little flirty and he gets to do his thing and watch.

01:23:38.660 And then he comes in as the demon and control the situation.

01:23:43.060 But we never, uh, I never was able to bring that up or anything cause it was all his direction.

01:23:51.640 Yeah.

01:23:52.360 If every scene was completely controlled and set up by him.

01:23:56.840 So if we tried to introduce anything, it just, whatever he wanted, more baby oil, you

01:24:03.300 know, candle here is like hundreds or not hundreds, like 50, 60 candles set up.

01:24:09.340 When you say you use this term angel and demon, you, you mean like in the scene that you had

01:24:13.120 written for yourself, you would literally play an angel?

01:24:15.840 I'm the nice guy.

01:24:16.800 I'm like the soft guy having a fun or a flirty.

01:24:19.780 He's the bad guy.

01:24:20.600 And he's the bad guy.

01:24:21.260 Yeah.

01:24:21.440 Coming in and owning the situation.

01:24:23.160 And then, cause that was the scene I had playing out in my head.

01:24:27.320 You know, I'm, I'm, I'm there taking direction, but I'm, you know, I'm not him.

01:24:32.460 I'm not the one to say, I want this.

01:24:34.760 I want this.

01:24:35.160 So that was kind of the, I was trying to elaborate with them and just grow our situations.

01:24:39.980 There was a time I proposed to her, Hey, just, if you want me to come over, just send

01:24:43.380 a, send me a word, like work or tie or fly.

01:24:48.900 And I'll bring an outfit or something in correlation.

01:24:51.580 We'll have fun.

01:24:52.460 Well, that never really went anywhere.

01:24:54.000 They just call me.

01:24:54.640 All right.

01:24:55.060 Here this time.

01:24:56.540 Yeah.

01:24:57.180 I take it.

01:24:58.200 You spoke to Diddy once since when he called you when you were in Hawaii.

01:25:01.880 Have you talked to her at all?

01:25:03.160 No, no.

01:25:04.280 This is a question from ignorance of pop culture.

01:25:09.220 Are they still dating?

01:25:11.180 I don't know.

01:25:12.040 I think they're probably broken up, right?

01:25:13.640 I would hope so.

01:25:14.660 Yeah.

01:25:14.840 A long time gone.

01:25:15.660 Yeah.

01:25:16.100 She's got a husband now and some kids and.

01:25:17.960 Oh.

01:25:18.760 Yeah.

01:25:19.520 And I do believe it was one of her personal trainers that became her husband.

01:25:23.940 And he was at, I saw a clip where he was at one of the cases and he got walked out or

01:25:29.920 something.

01:25:30.320 I forget, I forget why.

01:25:32.440 But, and that's, you know, I wish the absolute best for him, you know, to be able to move on

01:25:37.780 and from, from what she experienced and to have a family, it's, it's a beautiful thing.

01:25:43.360 So what about, cause you, you've got this very nice sort of resilient spirit where you're

01:25:46.700 kind of looking on the bright side and saying, Oh, that was a mistake.

01:25:48.400 I do a lot.

01:25:49.040 Yeah.

01:25:49.260 I tend to look on the bright side of things.

01:25:51.120 Yeah.

01:25:51.320 But you don't want to paper, you don't want to paper over bad things.

01:25:55.280 You don't want to, you want to learn from your mistakes and go on to have that be sanctifying

01:26:00.020 and productive.

01:26:00.460 So is there, if you, if you look back, there's this thread of your people pleaser and all

01:26:04.740 is there anything that led you to become a gigolo that you have corrected so that you

01:26:12.660 get to go in a better direction moving forward?

01:26:16.000 Yeah.

01:26:16.200 Uh, you know, like the, I'll gauge challenges and opportunities now instead of just jumping

01:26:22.000 head in, I'll have to do a, you know, uh, how does this, how, how does this sit spiritually?

01:26:28.480 Uh, you know, you could look at the, I could simply look at the 10 commandments and help

01:26:31.960 me simplify my game plan.

01:26:34.980 You're going to church, I take it.

01:26:37.480 Uh, or no.

01:26:39.140 I'm not Christian, but there's, that's a long story behind that one.

01:26:41.960 That's too, uh, been out of my church for some time now, but I, I will always love and

01:26:47.400 serve God.

01:26:47.860 Um, but you don't want to go to church.

01:26:51.540 It's a long story there.

01:26:53.220 Long story with my home church and the things.

01:26:55.960 What about a new church?

01:26:56.960 I can highly recommend the Catholic church.

01:26:58.980 It's very good.

01:26:59.440 Latin mass is beautiful.

01:27:00.780 Yeah.

01:27:01.280 Yeah.

01:27:01.660 I could even make your recommendation in Hawaii.

01:27:03.560 They're not on the big Island of Hawaii, but I'm sure I could find one.

01:27:06.660 I'm sure I could.

01:27:07.420 Oh, because I'm not just saying this to.

01:27:09.920 I'll take advice.

01:27:10.740 Yes.

01:27:11.100 I'm not just because what I fear from your story is you tell me I made these mistakes,

01:27:16.720 but Hey, I learned from it and it was better.

01:27:18.080 And I thought it was good at the time, which is, which is an admission that sometimes our

01:27:21.180 judgment gets very clouded.

01:27:22.400 And so you say, but I'm Christian.

01:27:24.020 I thought, I felt I was Christian at the time and I felt I was serving God at the time,

01:27:26.580 but I guess I wasn't.

01:27:27.560 And so then you have to ask yourself, well, how do you know if you're serving God now in

01:27:30.380 the way he wants to?

01:27:31.640 And there are certain things you can do that God tells us to do that Christians have done for,

01:27:36.500 for 2000 years and that the ancient Israelites did before that, which are, you know, he wants,

01:27:41.480 he tells you to go to church, tells you to keep holy the Sabbath day.

01:27:44.660 He tells you to, uh, gives you 10 commandments.

01:27:48.080 He gives you a church before he even gives you a Bible.

01:27:51.100 He gives you a church, which, which, uh, creates the canon of the Bible and the church

01:27:54.920 can guide you.

01:27:55.640 And basically you don't have to do it all on your own.

01:27:57.940 You can have some help here.

01:27:59.120 You know, there are all these wonderful resources.

01:28:01.240 That's why I struggle.

01:28:01.960 I struggle to ask for help, man.

01:28:03.540 That's, that's one thing is my spirit.

01:28:04.740 I, I hate to, I, uh, yeah, I, that's one of my things.

01:28:09.180 I, I struggle to ask for help.

01:28:10.680 I, uh, but isn't that the very same kind of, uh, disordered desire for independence that

01:28:16.180 maybe, that maybe you saw even in your clients in your old life, the desire to do it all on

01:28:23.760 your own, make your own world, all your own, just have it, have it be all about all you.

01:28:27.940 Yeah.

01:28:28.220 Even, even if you want to do good stuff.

01:28:29.880 That's, yeah, that's, that's, that's a hill I'm, I'm trying to climb and overcome.

01:28:35.240 You know, that's, that's one of my, you know, piece to my puzzle I'm looking to, uh, figure

01:28:41.980 out.

01:28:42.200 I know I never figure it out, but I know I need to figure it out.

01:28:43.660 No, you might figure it out.

01:28:44.700 And I, I say it too, because though I've, I've never been a gigolo or invited to, you

01:28:48.680 know, any ditty parties or anything like that, but I can sense in myself sometimes a disordered

01:28:54.240 desire for independence.

01:28:55.360 Look, I've worked in politics and media.

01:28:57.720 There's a desire to control things, do it your way, get, get your will done.

01:29:02.960 And sometimes I have to correct that and say, oh, maybe that's not.

01:29:08.460 See, my, my battle with the church right now is that when, during the COVID times, I wanted,

01:29:17.220 I, I thought it was, I did not like closing the doors.

01:29:21.160 I wanted to, I wanted to move in faith.

01:29:24.240 I wanted to be a shining light for those.

01:29:26.380 When fear hits you, we can lean on our faith.

01:29:29.340 Oh yeah.

01:29:29.640 And how I, like, I was hoping if it was just my pastor, I wanted to be up there with him.

01:29:33.720 If everyone was afraid to come in, let's open the doors for all who are willing.

01:29:37.340 And how I saw it is like, if it's part of our plan to die, God's in control of that.

01:29:43.200 We're not in control of that.

01:29:44.420 And then, so see too, like from what I had seen in my experience with the media, the doctor, the dean of medicine,

01:29:52.380 I saw that these narratives are used to control us.

01:29:56.800 Yeah.

01:29:57.000 Like, you know, like did a little digging on, oh, why do we have such a, why do we have such a, in the early days of COVID going into it?

01:30:04.640 Why was there such a scare for toilet paper?

01:30:06.480 Oh, because the media saw that they can sensationalize a story when there was an 18-wheeler, I think it was in Milwaukee or something, that had overturned.

01:30:14.420 So there was pictures of toilet paper all out on the road.

01:30:17.640 So they sensationalized that, take it nationwide to get everyone to be under this control of, this fear.

01:30:24.080 Yeah, there was a real promotion of survival fear.

01:30:25.980 And you're right, there were a bunch of churches and religious communities that closed.

01:30:30.560 You know, we luckily, I was able to keep going to church, though there were Protestant, Catholic, a lot of churches kind of, but even there was a pretty liberal Catholic church in Hollywood that they ended up doing mass outside and you couldn't go inside.

01:30:45.700 They kept, they kept the doors open, but they, they don't, and there was this probably 90-year-old priest who, kind of a, kind of a liberal guy for being a Catholic priest, 90-year-old guy.

01:30:57.260 And this guy was hearing confessions through an open door in the bank.

01:31:02.240 He wouldn't stop hearing confessions, even though he was the most vulnerable, actually, of being an older guy.

01:31:07.560 And he wouldn't, I thought, that's exactly the right attitude.

01:31:09.740 That's exactly, you have to, you don't want the servile fear that, of this whole world that you're, this fetid, corrupt world that you're describing.

01:31:18.020 But you do want the holy fear of God.

01:31:19.900 Yes.

01:31:20.340 Where it's not just about, it's not just about you.

01:31:22.580 And that's where I, I want to, I have my own, my own personal battles.

01:31:28.020 I respect and love my pastor that he didn't want, he closed the church because he didn't want anyone to get hurt.

01:31:34.380 That he, he was worried of his people around him were getting sick and, and such.

01:31:40.320 But I don't like that.

01:31:41.640 And he shouldn't, he shouldn't have closed the church.

01:31:43.040 I don't like that.

01:31:43.680 You can say he had the best of intentions, but he did wrong.

01:31:46.600 And, yeah.

01:31:47.280 And that just, that just, that just, you know.

01:31:49.740 That's no reason not to go to church.

01:31:51.220 Go find a better church.

01:31:52.020 You're 100% right.

01:31:53.160 You are right.

01:31:53.720 I can give you some recommendations maybe in Hawaii.

01:31:55.820 But that's, that's really wonderful.

01:31:57.180 I mean, it's a, it's a virtue, you know, that you, you look on the bright side of things.

01:32:01.420 And if, if you can, if, if you can pair that with reality, not just a delusional kind of bright side,

01:32:08.580 but if you compare the, seeing the good in things in, while seeing things really as they are, that's a wonderful way forward.

01:32:15.100 That's, that's, that's where this, this journey, you know, in my Christian walk, you know, I, I struggle to read the Bible because I have ADHD.

01:32:23.080 I, my attention doesn't last very long.

01:32:25.100 I read about two, three pages and I'm almost sleepy.

01:32:27.140 But I would read scriptures, you know, of how, like in a sense, the doctor, I saw him in a position of respect and adoration where what he says should be true.

01:32:38.180 But when you see what he's really doing, he's a disgusting liar.

01:32:42.440 Yeah.

01:32:43.180 Yeah.

01:32:43.380 There can be a lot of disillusionment because even with pastors and priests, they can be totally.

01:32:47.560 Oh yeah.

01:32:47.940 Sorry.

01:32:48.300 Sorry.

01:32:48.620 Where I was going to is as I got deep into the word, I would read about the false Pharisees and the false, those in the church that may use their position and such in order to deceive.

01:32:58.140 Just as, you know, like I take this example too.

01:33:00.660 My, my worldly vision of Satan, his big orange, ugly demon, ah, scary guy.

01:33:08.240 Orange, horn.

01:33:09.360 No, Satan is the most beautiful angel our eyes can see.

01:33:12.620 He is the, the most gracious sounding.

01:33:15.980 He's, you know.

01:33:17.200 Very tempting.

01:33:17.700 Very tempting.

01:33:18.720 Yeah.

01:33:18.900 And that is the tool right there is the deception.

01:33:21.920 Yeah.

01:33:22.140 You know.

01:33:22.500 Yeah, that's true.

01:33:23.020 You know, there was an ancient heresy called, is that docetism?

01:33:26.420 I think it was docetism, which, which said that the efficacy of the church's sacraments depended on the sanctity of the priest.

01:33:34.460 So if the priest were a bad guy, you know, if you got baptized by a bad guy, well, maybe your baptism isn't valid.

01:33:40.320 And that.

01:33:41.060 Happily, that was rejected as heresy because God is bigger than the men who run the church.

01:33:46.860 Exactly.

01:33:47.080 Yeah.

01:33:47.160 So you could, you could be baptized by some total degenerate who's, ah, I don't know, who's maybe hiring guys like you used to be and, but.

01:33:57.120 God's, God's sacraments still work.

01:33:58.720 Yep.

01:33:59.160 And God, God, and that's, that's where I struggle is.

01:34:01.660 I know that God knows the true intentions of the heart and such.

01:34:04.320 I don't.

01:34:04.960 And so in those situations where I may assume, because there are times where people at our church were telling us to wear masks and do these things.

01:34:12.700 And I saw that as, that's the mark of the beast.

01:34:15.620 Yeah, yeah.

01:34:15.920 We just don't, like, you don't see it.

01:34:18.100 Like, how can you not see it?

01:34:19.360 It's not, like, you're not, it doesn't, you're not getting 666 on your forehead, but you are succumbing to the fears of non-sensitive fears.

01:34:25.100 If you're, if you're doing something that's, that's totally irrational, that's not actually helping public health as just a fear symbol, then, yeah, you're probably, you're probably right about that.

01:34:33.740 I also want to correct myself.

01:34:35.500 I don't think it's the docetists.

01:34:36.560 I think it's the donatists.

01:34:37.580 But either way, it's an old heresy and it isn't true, and we got rid of it.

01:34:40.340 But that, that's, that's good to, it's good to recognize, it's good that even in the depths of your sin, you were recognizing God is still there.

01:34:51.840 But, but of course, then you got to, you got to do something about it as you're doing it.

01:34:55.960 You got to get to action instead of just, just, just talk about it and say it.

01:34:59.360 Yeah, you got to get to action.

01:35:00.240 And this is why I, this is one of the reasons I haven't attended, I haven't been to my church in so many years, is that my, I don't want to go in and turn tables, but I, because, that's Jesus.

01:35:10.420 You don't have to, you don't have to, you don't need to be in control.

01:35:11.980 Go to a, maybe just go to a different church.

01:35:15.860 Yeah.

01:35:16.300 At least at first.

01:35:17.260 Maybe you can go back to your old church, but it does, you don't need to, you don't need to save the world.

01:35:21.700 God already saved the world.

01:35:22.660 That's a key right there.

01:35:23.520 Christ already saved the world.

01:35:23.800 Yeah, that, that, that's key right there.

01:35:25.180 It's like many times, like, you know, I always want what's best, but like, I, I can't make every situation best.

01:35:31.160 You can cooperate with God's grace.

01:35:32.900 So then on this point, maybe this is a, this is a good point to end on.

01:35:37.780 You've come out of this very degenerate lifestyle and you're moving in the right direction.

01:35:44.400 And so you haven't talked to Diddy in a while.

01:35:47.700 You haven't talked to Cassie in even longer.

01:35:50.340 Do you have any, any advice?

01:35:51.580 They, they might watch this interview.

01:35:52.940 Do you have any advice for them?

01:35:54.620 Uh, the only two words for Diddy is find Jesus.

01:35:57.300 There's no other, and my opinion is nothing else in this world that can satisfy him.

01:36:02.480 There's no conceivable, you know, on that path, like, it's, it's no end to his path.

01:36:09.720 But yeah, find Jesus.

01:36:11.480 And to Cassie, um, I hope to shake her hand again one day and thank her for, you know, her professionalism through our time together.

01:36:19.640 And she, she's a, uh, I, I look up to her.

01:36:22.560 I admire her, you know.

01:36:23.960 Even though, even through all that, like, it's, uh, yeah.

01:36:26.300 I got lots of respect for her, but I, I wish the absolute best that she's going to be in my prayers, you know.

01:36:32.340 I don't, I don't love her like a lover, but I love her as a fellow child of God, you know.

01:36:37.080 And, and you're wishing the best for Diddy, too.

01:36:40.080 Oh, clearly.

01:36:40.700 I want him to have true justice.

01:36:42.900 I mean, I want him to have pure justice.

01:36:45.340 I want him to have justice for his actions.

01:36:47.740 But I want, I mean, I, like, I, that's the thing, too.

01:36:50.520 Like, I, I do want to party with every soul up there in heaven, you know, like.

01:36:55.300 The real white party.

01:36:56.580 Exactly.

01:36:56.860 The good kind of one that, and, you know, like, I, I, I, like, I can't, I don't want to proclaim that Diddy's gone.

01:37:03.320 That's a demon that has no, there's no reconciliation.

01:37:06.780 But God's greater than my thoughts.

01:37:08.720 You know, God's greater than what I see possible.

01:37:11.240 And if some degenerate like that can bow before Christ, he can lead many.

01:37:15.500 So, I'll have faith instead of, you know, instead of just counting it off.

01:37:21.280 But absolutely, I mean, I, I want him to have the purest form of justice, times 10.

01:37:24.960 I'm an eye for an eye kind of guy.

01:37:26.160 You do something to others.

01:37:27.020 You deserve that upon yourself, plus much worse.

01:37:29.480 But in the course of justice, none of us should see salvation.

01:37:32.280 So, you're hoping for salvation, too.

01:37:33.740 Yeah.

01:37:34.120 And that's, with salvation, God's, he's the true order of justice, so.

01:37:39.080 Sean, thank you very much.

01:37:40.060 It's been a pleasure, Michael.

01:37:40.840 Thank you.

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The Michael Knowles Show - July 19, 2025

Michael & The Diddy Escort： “Diddy Watched the Whole Time” ｜ Shawn Dearing

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