The Michael Knowles Show - Michael & The Ghost Hunter：＂We Recorded The Ghost Screaming＂｜ Kristina Costanza

00:00:00.000 These are questions that take cultures thousands of years to answer.

00:00:04.740 During Answer the Call, I take questions from people just like you

00:00:07.920 about their problems, opportunities, challenges, or when they simply need advice.

00:00:12.700 How do I balance all of this grief, responsibility?

00:00:15.800 How do you repair this kind of damage?

00:00:18.080 My daughter, Michaela, guides the conversations

00:00:20.540 as we hopefully help people navigate their lives.

00:00:24.080 Everyone has their own destiny. Everyone.

00:00:30.000 I was at an asylum in upstate New York.

00:00:34.740 I would tell these spirits, you can use my body.

00:00:37.780 Talk through me, and they would.

00:00:40.140 My team captured a crazy Class A ADP.

00:00:43.160 I come at these things with a healthy dose of skepticism.

00:00:45.800 It doesn't seem that bad.

00:00:46.980 The longer I stayed in, the darker experiences I had.

00:00:51.280 It changed and multiplied into these 8- to 10-foot tar beings. 0.99

00:00:56.220 They'd be ringing at me and taunting me, kind of like, I got you.

00:00:59.400 Did you ever think, you know, maybe I should get out of this?

00:01:02.000 It just kept getting worse and worse right up until I got saved.

00:01:16.440 Have you ever seen a ghost?

00:01:18.460 It's amazing how many people you talk to.

00:01:20.620 You go into a room of 20 people,

00:01:22.780 multiple people will say they have seen a ghost at some point.

00:01:25.800 Everyone pretends like they don't believe in ghosts,

00:01:27.540 but then a lot of people will tell you they've seen one.

00:01:30.700 My guest today has hunted them.

00:01:33.300 That would be Christina Costanza. 0.78

00:01:35.840 Christina, thank you for coming on the show.

00:01:38.300 Thank you for having me on.

00:01:39.380 You're a former ghost hunter.

00:01:41.760 Yes, I am.

00:01:42.780 How do you get into that line of work?

00:01:44.260 Oh, boy, that's a loaded question.

00:01:46.100 Well, you don't get into it without being curious to begin with,

00:01:49.680 but it kind of just found me.

00:01:52.520 I grew up being very afraid of the spiritual realm,

00:01:56.520 being very aware of it,

00:01:58.160 but not ever wanting to make contact with anything

00:02:01.880 or not even really realizing you could

00:02:03.940 outside of your everyday psychic, I guess.

00:02:07.080 And I grew up going to church.

00:02:09.760 I was raised Catholic.

00:02:11.440 And it wasn't ever something that was kind of,

00:02:16.080 in terms of going to psychics,

00:02:17.760 it wasn't ever, I wasn't told that they were bad or anything.

00:02:20.760 But I was very curious.

00:02:22.520 And when I was 14 years old,

00:02:24.460 I heard my first disembodied voice.

00:02:26.580 I was in my grandmother's attic,

00:02:28.080 and I heard this voice just whisper in my ear.

00:02:30.740 I went, shh.

00:02:32.020 And every hair on my body stood up.

00:02:34.900 I stood straight up, and I was very afraid, very afraid.

00:02:38.400 I didn't want anything to do with it,

00:02:39.520 but there was this little spark of curiosity

00:02:41.660 that lit up with it inside me.

00:02:42.960 And I'm like, do I have this gift?

00:02:45.400 I was told by other psychics that I have this gift, this ability.

00:02:49.000 And I'm like, okay, let me just shelf that for a little while

00:02:51.200 and move on with my teenage life.

00:02:52.580 And a few years later, I was 16 years old,

00:02:55.640 and I heard another voice in my bedroom this time.

00:02:58.140 And it was whispering yes just over and over into my ear.

00:03:01.060 And I had a deck of tarot cards

00:03:04.720 that I had just purchased from a local bookstore,

00:03:07.400 and I decided to try to make contact

00:03:09.820 and just kind of make up my own spells and stuff like that

00:03:13.160 to really no avail.

00:03:15.240 But that was really when the curiosity started peeking in me.

00:03:19.000 Okay, hold on.

00:03:19.420 I've got to rewind.

00:03:20.080 So you say you're a kid,

00:03:22.140 and you say you were aware of the spiritual world,

00:03:24.880 but you didn't want to communicate with it.

00:03:26.860 But you were raised Catholic.

00:03:27.980 So you're, at the very least, you're praying to God.

00:03:31.140 Yes.

00:03:32.420 You're availing yourself of the sacraments.

00:03:36.120 You're participating in some way in the spiritual world.

00:03:38.300 Yes, I loved going to church.

00:03:39.640 I loved God.

00:03:40.620 I had this reverence for him.

00:03:42.380 I believed in heaven and just the,

00:03:46.560 I loved the holiness of church and God and everything like that.

00:03:49.700 But you're also going to psychics.

00:03:50.900 Yeah.

00:03:51.440 What?

00:03:51.920 Why are you doing that?

00:03:52.720 It does not compute.

00:03:53.480 It does not mix.

00:03:54.000 Because I didn't know.

00:03:54.780 I didn't know my Bible.

00:03:55.820 I wasn't reading the Word.

00:03:56.680 I didn't know that God had told me to stay away from that stuff.

00:04:00.700 Very clearly, very obviously.

00:04:02.740 But I thought I could mix the two.

00:04:05.000 So how do you decide to go to a psychic?

00:04:06.460 You're just walking down the street in the strip mall.

00:04:07.980 You see the Get Your Fortune Told sign?

00:04:09.660 Well, I grew up right outside of Boston in Quincy, Massachusetts,

00:04:13.680 which is very close to Salem, Massachusetts.

00:04:16.300 Very famous for the witch trials.

00:04:18.240 It is the witch city now. 1.00

00:04:19.600 A lot of psychics, a lot of ghost tours, all these things.

00:04:22.160 And I'd go up and visit, you know, once a summer, just for a day or something,

00:04:27.000 and stop into the local psychic and get my future read.

00:04:31.220 So, okay, they say, we're going to read your future.

00:04:33.780 But it's not necromancy.

00:04:35.900 It's not, hey, we're going to contact great-grandma Sally.

00:04:38.020 No.

00:04:38.460 Okay.

00:04:38.740 No, I wasn't anything part of seance-y type stuff.

00:04:42.220 Maybe I had a sleepover trying to do those types of things,

00:04:45.200 but nothing formally or professionally, really, until I was about, like, 21 years old.

00:04:52.100 Okay, so you're raised Catholic.

00:04:54.480 It doesn't stick.

00:04:56.100 You fall away from the faith.

00:04:57.480 You're talking to psychics.

00:04:58.640 You hear disembodied voices.

00:05:00.600 Do you immediately recognize the disembodied voices as a spiritual reality,

00:05:05.180 or do you think, oh, maybe I just heard something go bump in the night.

00:05:08.720 Maybe this is just my imagination.

00:05:10.520 Well, I definitely, I never thought that,

00:05:13.040 because I was told by psychics that I had the ability.

00:05:16.540 Other people in my life, my dad was sensitive.

00:05:19.080 He was spiritual.

00:05:19.760 He was a born-again Christian, but he also believed in that stuff as well.

00:05:24.060 We knew there was life beyond this physical realm.

00:05:26.460 So, to me, it made me feel special that these voices,

00:05:30.540 these what I thought were people, would try to find me and communicate with me.

00:05:34.060 And I didn't know why, but all I knew is I wanted to find out more.

00:05:38.220 You know, it just kind of led me down that breadcrumb trail

00:05:41.200 until I really started professionally doing it for a living.

00:05:44.040 So, who do you think is saying shh and yes?

00:05:46.300 Do you think it's a ghost?

00:05:48.020 Do you think it's a demon?

00:05:49.080 Do you think it's a good spirit?

00:05:51.900 Do you, at that time, what do you think of it?

00:05:53.840 At that time, I thought it was a ghost,

00:05:55.860 which would have been, in my interpretation back then,

00:05:58.940 the voice of a person who was formerly living.

00:06:01.800 Yes.

00:06:02.120 As opposed to a demon or an entity or a spiritual being.

00:06:05.220 Okay.

00:06:05.640 Yeah.

00:06:05.780 So, you've now heard the second voice.

00:06:08.620 Mm-hmm.

00:06:09.260 You're feeling very special.

00:06:10.760 Yes.

00:06:11.180 You have this special gift because the local psychic told you.

00:06:14.340 So, then what?

00:06:15.600 Then I just kind of lived my life.

00:06:18.100 I'm doing, I'm pursuing photography and acting and all these different things.

00:06:22.280 And I had met a former teammate of mine at a nail salon and she was showing the nail tech

00:06:29.620 and EVP, which is an electronic voice phenomenon, which is basically when you take a digital recorder

00:06:35.600 or it could be, you know, cassette at that point as well, you ask questions.

00:06:41.460 And when you play it back in between the questions, you can actually capture voices, answers, and different things.

00:06:49.320 And so, she was showing the nail tech evidence that she had captured on a former ghost hunt.

00:06:55.480 And I was like, wow, that is crazy.

00:06:57.980 And at that time, I was trying to build a photography business.

00:07:00.260 I'm like, here, if you have any photos, let me know.

00:07:02.520 And that's how it all happened.

00:07:05.040 So, is it real?

00:07:06.300 We have some simulacrum of one of these devices, I guess, here.

00:07:09.320 Or is that real or is it kind of like the pictures of Bigfoot?

00:07:13.420 You say it's grainy.

00:07:14.860 It's, I think, did he say, you know, go drink a Yoohoo or was it, hold on, I don't, is that just a scratch on the tape?

00:07:21.420 Well, there's different classes of EVPs.

00:07:24.160 So, there's class A, B, C.

00:07:26.700 It depends on the clarity, if you can really hear it, how long it is and whatnot, what exactly the content is.

00:07:33.000 But a lot of that stuff, I think, is real because I witnessed it personally.

00:07:38.580 Being in a big event where nobody is talking, you're in an abandoned building in the middle of nowhere, and you're capturing what seems to be disembodied voices, having conversations or yelling and screaming and smacking in old asylums. 0.59

00:07:52.320 It's, yeah, I wish it was made up.

00:07:55.640 I think maybe some of the evidence that you hear out there could be, but what I personally witnessed was 1,000%.

00:08:01.120 Because you were recording it.

00:08:02.620 Because I was recording it, yeah.

00:08:03.480 So, it wouldn't be some planted hoax thing that you were in charge of it.

00:08:07.400 Correct.

00:08:08.000 What are the conversations about?

00:08:09.940 So, basically, when you're at a location, you're asking, who are you?

00:08:14.260 Why are you here?

00:08:15.360 What's your name?

00:08:16.520 Is there anything you'd like to say?

00:08:18.640 Are you in pain?

00:08:20.500 Just maybe, what's your favorite color?

00:08:22.180 Are you happy that we're here talking to you?

00:08:24.420 So, just kind of getting playful with questions, maybe being creative, just asking your standard run-of-the-mill questions, I guess you would ask a ghost at that time.

00:08:33.560 And the craziest one I ever caught was at an asylum in upstate New York. 1.00

00:08:38.180 Where was it?

00:08:39.260 Rolling Hills Asylum.

00:08:40.200 Yeah, yeah, I think I know that asylum.

00:08:41.640 Yep, yep, been there many times.

00:08:42.620 I grew up in upstate, you know, a little north of the city, so I think I remember.

00:08:46.500 Yep, yep, and I've been there many times, and the first time I was there, I captured, me and my team captured a crazy Class A AVP with what sounds like a patient-nurse struggle, like a shrieking scream, and you hear, like, a smack, almost as if the nurse smacked the patient.

00:09:05.060 And you hear, like, don't you ever do that.

00:09:06.700 It was, and this, I'm not going to be super loud right now, but it was, I actually listened to it, and it was horrifying chills.

00:09:14.920 You can't make it up, because then we, if you hear in the recording, we just carry on with our conversation.

00:09:19.740 No one is making this up.

00:09:20.800 You have sound guys next to you, you have people recording, so it's, sometimes, if there's a lot of people there, it's hard to fake the evidence.

00:09:28.060 Can you hear it in the room, or you only hear it on the playback?

00:09:30.720 Only on the playback.

00:09:31.880 That's the thing.

00:09:32.580 You don't hear it, sometimes, certain people like myself, I could hear certain things with my own ears, and then I would also hear it on the playback.

00:09:40.900 So it'd confirm what I was hearing, or different pieces of equipment would confirm what my own body, my eyes, my ears were seeing and feeling.

00:09:49.180 I believe that a lot of this stuff is real.

00:09:51.440 I also come at these things with a healthy dose of skepticism.

00:09:54.760 Having been to, I think it was that asylum, but I definitely remember a shutdown asylum in upstate New York, you can feel a kind of spiritual oppression around this place.

00:10:03.900 It is dark.

00:10:05.840 Yeah.

00:10:06.660 Yeah.

00:10:07.360 It is a lot of, especially that one, there's been so much darkness that's happened there.

00:10:13.640 You know, it was a poor house back in the 1800s where people would just send menopausal women or disabled children.

00:10:20.900 Just a lot of dark, dark things happened, and they would have, you know, upstate New York, it's very cold in the winter.

00:10:27.340 They couldn't bury the bodies, so they would have to stack them up in the morgue, and I would put myself in that meat locker and try to do these ghost sessions, trying to communicate, trying to capture evidence.

00:10:39.220 And being down in these basements, you just, you can feel the heaviness and the darkness in some of these places.

00:10:46.000 Why would you want to do this?

00:10:48.440 I mean, assuming, if you think it's real, I think that this stuff is real in principle, though there can be plenty of hoaxes, but if you think it's real, we've talked on this show before about the demonic and the angelic and the, you know, all of these sorts of things.

00:11:04.400 But if you think it's real, to me it's kind of like cockroaches.

00:11:09.300 I think cockroaches are real.

00:11:11.040 I think we need to fight cockroaches so they don't take over our house.

00:11:14.140 But I don't want to be around cockroaches.

00:11:16.880 I don't want to put myself in the cockroach headquarters.

00:11:20.280 What would draw you to pursue this?

00:11:23.000 I agree now, like looking back, like why would, what would ever possess me to do this?

00:11:27.060 But when you don't understand the spiritual ramifications of seeking after these things, it's just fun.

00:11:35.040 There could be a multitude of reasons.

00:11:36.580 Some people are in it just for the thrill of it.

00:11:38.400 Some people are actually skeptical.

00:11:39.940 I know atheists and skeptics that didn't believe in it that they were doing this to seek and they wanted to have their minds change.

00:11:48.740 There was people like myself that were curious.

00:11:51.320 You want to be able to make contact.

00:11:52.940 And at the time that I was in it, it was a lot of scientific equipment involved.

00:11:56.940 People were using electromagnetic field readers, thermal imaging cameras.

00:12:02.720 And I myself wanted to bring spirituality back to it and back in my days wanting to add the feminine touch to it.

00:12:10.520 And I added.

00:12:11.880 Who do you mean the feminine? 1.00

00:12:12.680 The feminine touch.

00:12:13.560 Kind of let's not be so.

00:12:15.420 This is my mindset back then.

00:12:16.440 Be nice to the ghosts, you mean?

00:12:17.680 Kind of more the spiritual.

00:12:19.400 Be nice to the ghosts.

00:12:20.280 But it was a very male-dominated field at the time and wanting to bring some softness in witchcraft.

00:12:28.060 I'm just going to say it.

00:12:28.760 I want to bring witchcraft into the industry. 1.00

00:12:30.280 Okay, all right.

00:12:30.460 Into the industry, yeah.

00:12:31.300 Do these spells and rituals to try to kick up the energy.

00:12:36.280 So, hold on.

00:12:36.740 Were you a witch?

00:12:39.040 Yeah.

00:12:39.400 You name it.

00:12:40.180 I was.

00:12:41.000 I was kind of a spiritual cafeteria spiritualist, as they would say.

00:12:45.780 A little bit of this, a little bit of that.

00:12:47.240 But I was very much into the New Age, the Law of Attraction, crystals, candles, tarot cards.

00:12:54.600 So, you were a millennial white woman. 0.99

00:12:56.460 Yes, yes.

00:12:57.260 Okay, got it, got it.

00:12:57.840 Oh, yeah.

00:12:58.240 And I was vegan at one point.

00:12:59.460 Yep, all this stuff.

00:13:00.340 You get it, yeah.

00:13:01.220 So, you were dabbling in all of this.

00:13:03.520 But did you, were you conscious of it?

00:13:05.900 Would you say, oh, I'm a little witchy, you know?

00:13:07.720 Oh, I wore it like a badge of honor.

00:13:09.540 You know, I was witchy.

00:13:10.960 I was the ghost girl.

00:13:12.440 Even though people that I grew up with would be like, you're what?

00:13:15.440 Like, you?

00:13:15.900 You were afraid of everything.

00:13:16.740 And, but it just so quickly became my identity.

00:13:21.020 I was, that was who I was.

00:13:22.240 I was the ghost girl and I was witchy.

00:13:24.920 I was, I wore all these labels, you know, liberal, witchy, vegan, all these different things.

00:13:30.320 Tomato, tomato.

00:13:31.220 Yeah, right?

00:13:31.960 And I, because I was seeking.

00:13:34.420 I was hurting and I was seeking for identity.

00:13:37.760 Why were you hurting?

00:13:38.520 I was hurting.

00:13:39.000 I mean, I was just struggling with depression.

00:13:42.540 I was struggling with anxiety.

00:13:44.180 I was, I wasn't walking with the Lord.

00:13:47.220 So, I had this big God-shaped hole in my heart.

00:13:49.560 So, I was trying to fill that with witchcraft, with drinking, drugs, alcohol, ghost hunting,

00:13:55.400 all of the things that kind of satisfy the flesh for time being.

00:14:00.600 But, the next morning you just wake up and you're just as empty, if not emptier than before.

00:14:05.360 You know, I was going to joke and say back in my wayward youth when I was atheist, a bit more libertarian.

00:14:12.720 I, so yeah, the drinking, the partying, the girls, the, this, staying up late.

00:14:18.240 I did the, ghost hunting was not on the list.

00:14:21.140 Except, that's actually not fair.

00:14:22.680 Because when I, I was a teenager, my mother died unexpectedly.

00:14:26.440 And I did have a strong impulse to say, hey, I was an atheist.

00:14:30.840 I said, can I, is it possible, can you talk to the dead?

00:14:33.780 Is it possible to talk to, I didn't pursue it that much.

00:14:37.140 But, I did Google it.

00:14:39.060 I remember, so even that, I, I, okay, I, I get it.

00:14:41.720 When you're in a, when you're lost and you're confused and you're longing for something,

00:14:46.460 I, I actually do see how you could end up to that place.

00:14:49.160 But then the story you mentioned, you say you heard this conversation between a patient and a nurse and a smack and a this.

00:14:55.640 So, ostensibly, that was a real event that took place that you were hearing the echo of.

00:15:00.500 Possibly.

00:15:00.860 So, what was it, what do you now think that was?

00:15:04.460 What I now believe from just being on my own spiritual journey and what I've read in the Bible is that these are familiar spirits that the Lord talks about.

00:15:13.500 They are demons masquerading as beings of light, just like how 2 Corinthians talks about Satan himself comes as a being of light and so do his minions.

00:15:25.640 And these spirits are watching, they're understanding what you're seeking, what you're curious about.

00:15:31.060 And they, I, I personally believe they were pretending, they're putting on a show to draw you in.

00:15:37.700 Kind of like a mosquito light, you know, where you think you're heading towards something that's bright and beautiful. 0.98

00:15:44.320 It's, it seems real.

00:15:46.720 It seems good.

00:15:47.900 And the closer you get, you don't realize it's leading you to death.

00:15:50.700 That these beings are going to do anything they can to get you as far away from the Lord as possible.

00:15:56.940 So, I personally, that's why they do come as people you know of scenarios of, you know, depending on the location you're at.

00:16:04.360 Like, oh, there was a cowboy that lived here.

00:16:06.160 And, oh, I saw the cowboy.

00:16:07.320 He's going to come here.

00:16:08.520 I think they're very clever and they're really maniacal and they're going to do anything they can to keep you coming back from war.

00:16:15.500 So, you're saying 100% confident it's demons.

00:16:19.860 Yes.

00:16:20.840 Is it a possibility that it's a ghost?

00:16:23.660 I know that's a question.

00:16:26.360 I personally, from what I have, from what the Lord has led me to believe, from what I've read in the Bible,

00:16:31.520 I don't personally believe that we can come back because it says that man is destined to die once and immediately face judgment.

00:16:39.380 I don't see anywhere that says we can come back and talk to our loved ones and, hey, my necklace is in the drawer over here.

00:16:46.320 Communicate in that sense.

00:16:47.660 But there are ghosts in the Bible.

00:16:49.200 There are ghosts in the Bible, yeah.

00:16:50.260 So, there's the ghost of the witch of Endor.

00:16:52.160 The ghost of Samuel comes up.

00:16:54.280 And the witch kind of actually seems surprised that she conjured the ghost. 0.69

00:16:57.540 She probably was a fraudster before that. 1.00

00:16:59.560 But you see the ghost of Samuel.

00:17:01.500 You see in the transfiguration the ghosts of Moses and Elijah. 0.53

00:17:05.920 Those are ghosts, right?

00:17:06.720 They're not demons.

00:17:07.580 Those are their spirits.

00:17:08.840 Right.

00:17:09.120 Well, with the witch of Endor, what I find fascinating is I don't know if she meant to do that.

00:17:15.360 I don't know if she's ever done that before.

00:17:16.780 Right, right.

00:17:17.100 I agree.

00:17:18.140 And what I love about this topic is that even just biblical scholars, there's no one consensus on the witch of Endor of what actually happened

00:17:27.140 because I'm between two schools of thought where, all right, the Bible says that Samuel came up.

00:17:32.460 Okay.

00:17:32.780 So, it says it's Samuel.

00:17:33.860 It doesn't say it's a familiar spirit.

00:17:35.300 Yeah.

00:17:35.800 So, I'm like, okay, maybe God allowed this to happen.

00:17:38.220 Yeah.

00:17:38.860 But I'm like, why would God allow to use something so sinful to do this?

00:17:44.000 Because I'm like, okay, maybe it was a familiar spirit.

00:17:45.840 There's a lot of debate on this topic.

00:17:47.460 Like, all I know is no matter what happened, it wasn't good.

00:17:51.940 It led to Saul's death and it also, we're not called to do necromancy.

00:17:56.300 The whole thing was outside of God's will.

00:17:57.980 No, no, of course.

00:17:58.680 Yeah.

00:17:58.800 I totally agree with this and we shouldn't do necromancy or pursue.

00:18:01.700 Yeah, all that stuff.

00:18:02.640 But this is an important question for the ghost hunting phenomenon because, okay, put the witch of Endor aside.

00:18:09.920 Christ is transfigured and he's flanked by two guys, Moses and Elijah.

00:18:15.720 And it's not them physically.

00:18:17.580 It's not, they're not, you know, flesh and bone.

00:18:19.540 It's their spirit.

00:18:20.880 Ghost just means spirit.

00:18:22.560 You wouldn't say those are familiar spirits.

00:18:24.500 You wouldn't say those are demons.

00:18:25.760 So, at least in one example, and let's say two examples in the Bible, ghosts do appear.

00:18:33.260 So, you could say, well, I just, I don't think that really happens today.

00:18:36.540 I don't think the things I was doing.

00:18:37.420 But, for the people who are curious about this stuff, I mean, this was really a big plot point in Hamlet, in the first scene of Hamlet.

00:18:46.020 Is it really the father of Hamlet who comes back as a ghost or is it a demon or, you know, that's a big debate.

00:18:51.180 And actually, it hinges on religious debates at the time because of the University of Wittenberg where Hamlet comes from.

00:18:55.780 So, is it, if a demon's coming to trick you or a granny is coming to warn you of something, both could be spiritually dangerous, but they are different. 0.97

00:19:08.080 Right.

00:19:08.700 And you're the expert ghost hunter.

00:19:10.840 So, you go in assuming it's always a demon.

00:19:14.180 Well, I don't do it anymore.

00:19:15.760 And you don't do it anymore.

00:19:16.520 You did.

00:19:17.080 Praise God.

00:19:17.500 Yes, he did.

00:19:17.940 But I would say, like, I still personally don't believe that would be granny. 1.00

00:19:23.040 Like, what is she saying?

00:19:24.200 What, like, they should be, I know we also see in the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

00:19:30.400 Yeah, yeah.

00:19:30.760 Yeah, he's not able to come back.

00:19:32.860 There's a big, giant chasm.

00:19:34.040 He's like, please go warn my family.

00:19:35.660 Says you had the prophets.

00:19:36.860 Exactly.

00:19:37.240 You're not allowed to.

00:19:38.280 And to me, that also says we can't come back.

00:19:41.520 We have our chance now and we're not able to cross that great divide.

00:19:46.200 And the only one who did that was Jesus.

00:19:47.740 But for me personally, no matter what it is, we're called not to talk to them and communicate with them.

00:19:56.220 Yes, yes.

00:19:56.500 Yeah.

00:19:57.220 So, we do it anyway.

00:19:59.720 You did it anyway.

00:20:00.560 I did it anyway.

00:20:00.780 A lot of people do.

00:20:01.580 Yeah.

00:20:02.120 Well, I thought it was okay.

00:20:03.460 I didn't know that God said not to do that.

00:20:06.860 He didn't know to, I didn't know that he said to stay away from necromancy and divination and witchcraft and all the things that I was partaking in. 0.86

00:20:14.780 And I thought, at one point, I called myself a Christian witch.

00:20:18.040 I thought I could have both.

00:20:20.240 Yeah.

00:20:20.780 Tell me you haven't read the Bible without telling me you haven't read the Bible.

00:20:24.360 You're talking about demonology.

00:20:25.820 Have you heard of the Annabelle doll?

00:20:29.980 I don't know anything about this.

00:20:31.740 I just know it somehow pertains to, it's like a demon possessed doll or so what is it?

00:20:36.920 Yeah, so it's actually been, it was made famous to the big world through the Conjuring movies, but it's actually a rag doll that was in possession by Ed and Lorraine Warren.

00:20:48.160 They're very famous for their demonology.

00:20:50.980 Not famous enough.

00:20:51.840 I never heard of them.

00:20:52.580 So, what do they do?

00:20:53.320 They're into demons?

00:20:54.240 I think they actually worked on the Amityville horror case and the actual Annabelle Conjuring case.

00:21:00.920 They're pro-demon or anti-demon?

00:21:02.960 Pro-demon.

00:21:05.000 They're exorcist type sense, but I actually met Lorraine Warren a few times. 0.61

00:21:10.140 So, they're anti-demon, meaning they want to get the demons out.

00:21:11.780 Okay, yeah, I guess I know exactly.

00:21:12.660 Okay, yeah, okay, all right, that makes sense.

00:21:14.160 I was confused.

00:21:14.900 They believe they exist, but they don't like them.

00:21:16.820 They try to, they try to.

00:21:17.680 Oh, okay, that's good.

00:21:18.740 They're passed on right now, but they had an occult museum in Connecticut filled with relics and very dark occult items.

00:21:28.480 You know, literally things that have been found in the woods with satanic rituals, and I have been to the museum a couple times.

00:21:34.840 I met Lorraine a few times as well and saw Annabelle as well.

00:21:39.820 And the folklore behind this doll is that it's possessed by, I don't remember exactly, I think a little girl who's demonic or just filled with demons or rage.

00:21:50.820 I don't remember exactly, but this rag doll has tried to kill people, allegedly, and has escaped. 1.00

00:21:57.320 Like Chucky?

00:21:57.960 Like it springs to life with a knife?

00:21:59.540 I think so, yeah.

00:22:00.560 I don't know.

00:22:01.240 That didn't happen.

00:22:02.000 Someone was watching it, and they woke up, and the arms were around their neck.

00:22:06.380 So this thing has to be kept in a lockbox, and the folklore behind this doll is just insane, and the power that people are giving this doll, really the demon in operation behind this doll.

00:22:18.620 And it just made headlines again because a comedian, Matt Reif, I've never watched his things, but I guess he just purchased the entire occult museum in Connecticut filled with these objects, including Annabelle doll.

00:22:32.540 And it's not the objects themselves that are haunted.

00:22:36.100 It's the demons that are in operation behind it.

00:22:38.320 So when people are looking at Annabelle and giving her power, like I did, when I met her that night, I literally said, like, I tried to test her.

00:22:47.780 I'm like, well, she's not that scary, and my gas tank literally went from, like, full to, like, empty on the way home.

00:22:54.540 Yeah, hold on.

00:22:54.920 Even the way you're taught, I met her, it's a rag doll. 1.00

00:22:59.040 I know, that's the way we speak.

00:22:59.220 Hold on.

00:22:59.520 We spoke, yes.

00:23:00.100 What are you taught?

00:23:00.780 So do you buy it?

00:23:01.620 Do you think this doll was choking someone?

00:23:03.840 It could have been.

00:23:05.240 You think so?

00:23:05.540 I don't mean to say, like, I met her.

00:23:06.840 I think that's the old way I would speak, but I met the doll and the demon that's in operation with this rag doll. 0.97

00:23:12.880 And your gas tank dropped to nothing?

00:23:14.860 Out of nowhere.

00:23:15.620 It was very strange.

00:23:17.820 Like, it was not like, oh, almost on E.

00:23:20.020 Oh, I lost gas.

00:23:20.920 It's not a crazy story.

00:23:22.200 It was literally, like, out of nowhere, strange stuff started happening, got lost.

00:23:27.500 GPS, this was back in, I want to say, 2011, so GPS really wasn't what it used to be.

00:23:31.660 It was, like, those ones that you attached.

00:23:32.860 So it was leading us out of nowhere, in the middle of nowhere, in the woods, and had to find a police station to help us.

00:23:39.300 It was crazy after going to the museum.

00:23:41.720 But this comedian just purchased all of these items, and it actually broke my heart knowing that just the lore and excitement behind this doll right now, he's in for a lot of bondage, and he's coming to agreement with a lot of these things because when you give power.

00:23:59.980 So he's into the new agey old stuff?

00:24:02.900 Apparently, I mean, I feel like you wouldn't make that big of a purchase without having some kind of curiosity.

00:24:08.740 No, I'd barely buy a new Oxford shirt.

00:24:10.620 I'm such a cheapskate.

00:24:11.720 I don't think I'd buy a demon warehouse if I weren't into it.

00:24:15.260 Right, and he's hoping to open it up for tours and overnight stays and stuff like that, and it just breaks my heart because now it's just, people are so into this, and they're going to come into agreement with all these beings and open themselves up for demonization.

00:24:32.260 You know, what's so strange about this, too, there's a Christian tradition of relic veneration that goes back to, I mean, it's in the Bible.

00:24:41.040 It's in the Book of Acts with the handkerchiefs in St. Paul, or in 2 Maccabees, though some people don't include that in the canon.

00:24:48.540 But from the earliest moments, from the apostolic age, you know, Polycarp dies.

00:24:53.680 Polycarp is buddies with St. Ignatius of Antioch, who knew John the Evangelist.

00:24:58.920 Polycarp himself might have known John the Evangelist.

00:25:00.760 And when he dies, we have immediate accounts that the Christians would venerate his bones.

00:25:07.220 His bones.

00:25:08.320 And this goes, you know, all throughout the Christian tradition of sometimes they'd get a little unsure of the relic, so I think they're presently two heads of St. Thomas Aquinas, who was a very smart guy, but he didn't have to.

00:25:19.260 And so there is a sense, you don't want to worship them like an idol, but there is a sense that there's a connection to the physical world and there's temples of the Holy Spirit.

00:25:25.420 And so they kind of point you toward the God who these holy men worshipped.

00:25:29.740 And so there are plenty of relics.

00:25:31.440 A lot of them have left churches in the modern age.

00:25:35.620 You think you could buy a warehouse.

00:25:37.260 Well, you actually can't buy relics, but you're not supposed to buy relics.

00:25:39.820 But you could come to a reliquary of holy men.

00:25:48.600 Why would you buy the demonic one?

00:25:51.080 If there are two kinds of relics you can buy, and you say, hey, here's a really good one and here's a really bad one.

00:25:56.400 Why do you say, I want the bad one with the rag doll that's going to strangle me in my sleep? 1.00

00:26:00.760 Yeah, well, because it's cool.

00:26:03.640 Because people are really into the horror and all this stuff.

00:26:06.620 People don't think that stuff is real.

00:26:09.400 They might just think like, oh, this is just awesome.

00:26:11.400 It's really just like it's dark.

00:26:14.320 It's cool.

00:26:14.980 It's just different.

00:26:16.740 You know, it's kind of like all those horror conventions I used to go to.

00:26:19.340 It's just you think you're different, but you're not.

00:26:23.260 Yes.

00:26:23.560 Part of the kind of all the same, and it's, oh, it's outside of the normal stuff, but not realizing you're just taking part in something that's being normalized.

00:26:32.240 Everyone thinks it's cool now.

00:26:33.740 Everyone has a ghost story.

00:26:34.780 Everyone likes to go on these tours, and we're spiritual beings, and so we're going to have our curiosity picked.

00:26:41.320 And people want to believe in something outside of the natural, and I'm sure it's a great investment, too, wanting to turn it into something that people can come and you own something.

00:26:51.400 It's a very popular doll made famous by horror movies now, and unfortunately, there's so much ramifications that are going to come with that.

00:27:00.300 Yeah, I don't know.

00:27:00.840 I'd probably just buy an index fund, you know.

00:27:02.840 I get that the ROI might be marginally higher on the Demon Doll Museum, but I don't know, man.

00:27:11.980 I don't like ESG, but like Vanguard and State Street are probably safer investments, even with all their problems.

00:27:18.180 I don't know.

00:27:18.540 I know nothing.

00:27:19.180 Yeah, I 100% agree, and I actually tried to make a video recently, and social media would not let me upload it for some reason, trying to talk to Matt Reif, saying,

00:27:31.440 please, anybody that has these objects, please burn them, get rid of them, and turn to Jesus.

00:27:37.840 I'm just urging him.

00:27:38.800 I hope he would just wake up and understand that the spiritual weight of this is not going to be something that anybody can carry, and I hope he just repents and turns to Jesus.

00:27:50.780 So you're a Christian witch. 1.00

00:27:52.220 Yes.

00:27:52.460 You're now doing film work on ghosts.

00:27:56.440 Yeah, yeah.

00:27:57.400 And you're getting this footage that you say, maybe some of them are more dubious, but you say, look, the class A, top tier audio recordings, I am hearing ghosts.

00:28:08.480 So, what are you doing with that knowledge?

00:28:13.400 Why is that spiritually dangerous?

00:28:15.940 Why is that spiritually dangerous?

00:28:17.660 Now, looking back, it's because, one, God calls us to stay away from it, and when you're operating in divination or witchcraft, you're seeking knowledge or power outside of God's knowledge and power.

00:28:28.900 Or you're in a spirit of rebellion, you're rebelling against God's word.

00:28:34.100 I have to believe that God tells me to stay away from something for a good reason, that he has a good will for me, and he has a good design for everything.

00:28:41.920 And then when I step outside of that, it leads to death.

00:28:45.900 It does.

00:28:46.440 It really does lead to spiritual death.

00:28:47.840 It leads to bondage.

00:28:48.740 It leads to chains.

00:28:49.540 It leads to just demonic oppression.

00:28:53.680 And what I do with that knowledge now is, right now, I want to just share my story.

00:28:58.060 But back then, I really wanted to kind of show the world that there is life beyond the physical realm.

00:29:04.780 There's something else out there.

00:29:06.340 Maybe we don't know what it is, but maybe there's something that can bring us together or open us up spiritually.

00:29:13.600 I just kind of wanted this enlightenment and healing above all else as well.

00:29:20.040 Yeah.

00:29:21.060 This, to me, is the good that can come out of the bad thing.

00:29:23.900 Or, you know, to use the example of the witch of Endor, you know, it's a very bad thing that happens, but God turns all things to good, is even, it's not a recommendation of practicing necromancy.

00:29:32.920 But there are people who are hardcore atheist materialists who say none of this is real.

00:29:38.260 And then they're convinced, not that God exists, but that a demon exists, or alternately that a ghost exists.

00:29:44.060 But if ghosts exist, that means that something non-physical exists.

00:29:49.540 And if demons exist, that probably means that God exists, too.

00:29:52.940 And there's this kind of bizarre backdoor where people are interested in the occult and the paranormal, and often it leads them to perdition.

00:30:00.660 But sometimes it can lead them back to the right path.

00:30:03.300 So you say this is terrible and you had all this demonic oppression and everything, but how so?

00:30:08.300 You're at the insane asylum, you're getting the audio recordings, it's quirky, it's weird, it's interesting, you feel very special, you feel you have this gift, this feminine witchy touch to mollify the demons.

00:30:19.820 And okay, then what?

00:30:20.820 How does it go south?

00:30:22.120 It doesn't seem that bad at that moment.

00:30:24.260 Yeah, it doesn't seem that bad.

00:30:25.280 I just want to say about that atheist kind of opening their mind, that was my husband.

00:30:29.440 He was a full-blown atheist, nothing happens in a spiritual realm.

00:30:32.940 And meeting me and having me witness what I went through, he's like, well, she's not lying, she's not a liar.

00:30:39.640 It kind of opened himself up to the spiritual world as well, and now we're both saved, hallelujah.

00:30:45.340 But how does that, what was I struggling with?

00:30:50.340 Yeah, so okay, we get to the point where you're recording these smacks and screams in the insane asylum.

00:30:56.660 But at that point, I don't know if it just remained at that point, is that, is there really any impetus for you to give it up?

00:31:03.640 Right, definitely.

00:31:05.580 Because the longer I stayed in, the longer I was involved with these things, the darker experiences I had.

00:31:13.260 So it was really fun in the beginning, and I was doing this for over a decade.

00:31:17.420 It was really fun in the beginning, just kind of, wow, I can't believe I'm capturing this evidence, I'm making contact,

00:31:22.180 I can't believe I'm growing in my psychic abilities, I'm able to travel the country, see different places, this is amazing, and make friends, and wow, I'm on a TV show, wow, this is crazy.

00:31:33.940 But it slowly got more dark and dark and dark.

00:31:37.360 And because I was opening myself up in different ways with these investigations where I would do different spells and rituals to open up the investigation, I would light candles, I would do what we call a pendulum session.

00:31:55.400 So in witchcraft, there's these, it's kind of like a ball and chain type thing, it's a pendulum on the bottom of a chain, and kind of like a Ouija board mat with letters and numbers and yes or no on there.

00:32:07.360 And you would ask questions like, all right, we're here, please talk to me, are you ready to talk with us?

00:32:12.500 And it would literally point to different things, and I wouldn't, there's no way I could really manipulate it without it really shaking.

00:32:18.100 And this thing would point to yes, point to no, spell out names, and we would start investigations that way.

00:32:25.240 And I...

00:32:26.300 This is, it's not just that, you know, your hand shook or something, and you're saying you're seeing the ball on the chain defy gravity?

00:32:34.380 Yeah, it would stay tight, and then it would just go like that.

00:32:36.480 Yeah, these things that, it's like literally in my hand, I know I'm being stable, and it's operating outside of my own control.

00:32:44.660 And I would tell these spirits, these beings, I would say, okay, you can use my body, you can use my energy, talk through me, use whatever you need to pull from me to manifest yourself.

00:32:56.900 Looking back, that's literally insane and so dangerous, but I was literally inviting these things into my life, my spirit, my soul, just to, I was coming into agreement with it all.

00:33:08.580 And I was asking them to manifest themselves, and they would.

00:33:12.020 So you'd start, or it would sound like you were speaking?

00:33:15.140 Sometimes they would speak through me.

00:33:17.340 That happened once.

00:33:19.520 I would chant, I channeled somebody.

00:33:21.580 I don't know who, I don't really remember.

00:33:23.260 It's a little, it's about 13 years ago at this point, and I try to forget some of these things.

00:33:27.420 But I remember speaking through, and I didn't have control over my voice, and I remember looking at the people that I was with, and I'm like, I was just saying things, and I don't know what I was saying.

00:33:37.800 And they were, they had to like get me out of the house to snap me out of it, because my body started to lock up.

00:33:43.140 I started to not be able to like feel things.

00:33:46.360 It was weird.

00:33:47.340 I was kind of in my body, but I wasn't.

00:33:49.280 I didn't have control over my motor skills or what I was speaking or seeing.

00:33:53.600 It was really horrifying and very scary, and the worst experience, I think, was when I was filming for my show.

00:34:01.340 I ended up, through my paranormal journey, I became a co-host for my own paranormal show, helping people overcome great fear with their crazy demonic activity that they have in their homes.

00:34:13.020 We were in a house down in Georgia, which was experiencing a lot of dark activity.

00:34:19.800 The guy was involved in, I think, masonry, some kind of occult or secret society.

00:34:25.380 Freemasonry, though.

00:34:25.940 Yeah, I think so.

00:34:27.040 Or it might have been a different one.

00:34:28.100 I'm not too sure.

00:34:28.980 But he also was, his grandmother was a, practiced black magic.

00:34:34.980 She put hexes on people, a lot of witchcraft. 1.00

00:34:37.520 And every time I stepped on this property, I got weird.

00:34:41.960 Like I just, I was dizzy, and I was not myself.

00:34:44.400 I became paranoid.

00:34:44.800 I thought, oh my goodness, we had a guest sidekick come on, and I was like, they're auditioning someone else to take my place.

00:34:51.720 And it's just really, it wasn't me, and I just was thinking these crazy thoughts.

00:34:55.360 I'm like, no one likes me.

00:34:56.300 And I don't know what it was.

00:34:57.800 Well, I know now what it was.

00:34:59.640 But we were in the backwoods, backwoods of Georgia, at nighttime.

00:35:03.940 We're filming, and I look behind my co-host, and we're in the woods, and I see between him what I can only describe as like a goblin face, seething and just staring at me for like a split second.

00:35:18.000 It just appeared almost as if it wanted to get me.

00:35:20.900 And I jump back, and that image is really seared into my mind forever.

00:35:26.100 And this thing just wouldn't leave me alone.

00:35:29.480 It started changing forms and became this giant tar being.

00:35:34.160 It sounds crazy talking about it now, but it changed and multiplied into these 8 to 10 foot tar beings that would then follow me around my house. 0.58

00:35:45.540 And as I'm walking around and trying to sleep, I would see these beings.

00:35:49.700 You'd see them, not just sort of feel their presence.

00:35:52.540 You'd see them.

00:35:53.000 Yeah, and it was kind of – I would see it both sometimes with my own eyes and sometimes what they would call like in your mind's eye.

00:36:00.660 Back then I would say your third eye, but I don't know how to describe it.

00:36:04.460 It was very like in between the physical and spiritual realm I'd be able to see them, and they'd be hovering over my things and grinning at me and really very taunting me and almost kind of like,

00:36:16.440 I got you.

00:36:17.440 I'm watching you.

00:36:18.660 And just wait.

00:36:19.700 They would communicate with me almost telepathically in a sense.

00:36:25.280 They don't have bodies.

00:36:26.320 Yeah, they can do whatever they want.

00:36:28.180 And these things just wouldn't let up, and it just kept getting worse and worse right up until I got saved, which was about five years ago.

00:36:36.360 So you say you developed your psychic abilities.

00:36:40.640 How so?

00:36:43.100 What's psychic 305 compared to psychic 101?

00:36:48.560 Yeah, so I would actually – I had books psychic for beginners, like how to enhance your psychic abilities.

00:36:55.820 And in that kind of witchcraft world, there's different stones you can have to enhance those abilities.

00:37:01.820 I believe amethyst was one of them, and I had just actually got an amethyst ring from my – I think it was my 21st birthday.

00:37:09.160 And right after that is when I got into ghost hunting.

00:37:11.360 So I was like, oh, the amethyst, it helped me awaken this ability.

00:37:15.420 And in the books that I was reading, it was talking about just practicing going with your intuition, going with, like, the first thought that pops up and trying, like, just focusing your energy on something, your concentration, your intellect, your energy.

00:37:30.400 And just the desire itself of wanting to enhance these abilities is going to enhance them.

00:37:36.420 So, yeah, there's some wild stuff I would read.

00:37:39.260 And the more –

00:37:40.540 I guess that makes sense, though.

00:37:41.640 Yeah.

00:37:41.840 Because, you know, it's like when a woman runs up to Christ in the Gospels and touches the hem of his garment. 0.52

00:37:48.480 This is very important because it shows you that there is a physical aspect to faith.

00:37:54.340 But it is her faith that is really taking precedence over – the physicality matters.

00:38:00.540 You know, in the book of Acts, when people are touching handkerchiefs to St. Paul and sending it out to – there is a physical aspect, obviously, because it's an incarnational and sacramental faith.

00:38:11.960 But it's not like a magic handkerchief.

00:38:14.980 Right.

00:38:15.220 It's not the object itself.

00:38:17.780 It's the faith of the person that is – you're chasing after it.

00:38:21.540 Like, I literally have the woman touching the hem of the garment in my head.

00:38:25.480 And I'm blessed enough to be able to lead worship at my church.

00:38:29.360 And even on my worst days, I'm like, man, this is going to be really hard.

00:38:33.360 But if I can just get there and just get up on there and just touch the hem of his garment, I know it's going to be okay.

00:38:41.040 And I've had so many of those moments where just having the faith has helped me overcome.

00:38:47.220 But it was also in the – when I was in the darkness as well, just having the faith that, oh, I am going to grow into these psychic abilities.

00:38:55.560 And I believe it's going to.

00:38:57.020 I think your belief is very important, whether it's – wherever it's placed.

00:39:01.760 And Henry Ford talks about whether you think you can or you can't, you're right.

00:39:06.780 And I used to really believe that as well.

00:39:09.000 And I'm like, okay, no, I am a psychic.

00:39:11.260 I can do this.

00:39:12.300 I can do this.

00:39:13.300 And I got what I wanted.

00:39:15.600 So did you – at any point – I know you're kind of down the rabbit hole at this point.

00:39:19.780 You're doing the weird pendulum thing and, you know, you're pretty in it.

00:39:23.800 But when the giant tarp beings are following you around, did you ever think, huh, this isn't great.

00:39:30.060 You know, maybe I should get out of this.

00:39:32.460 Well, I definitely didn't think it was great.

00:39:34.640 But at that time, I thought there was good beings and dark beings, that there was – maybe I would call them angels, but beings of light.

00:39:43.580 And I would call them demons at the time.

00:39:45.840 I was actually very into demonology.

00:39:48.040 Flirted with Satanism at one point.

00:39:50.320 Really?

00:39:50.540 Oh, yeah.

00:39:51.660 At one point, I found myself agreeing with Aleister Crowley and his teachings.

00:39:56.420 I'm like, that's kind of weird.

00:39:57.960 Maybe I should be –

00:39:58.600 Aleister Crowley is one of the founders of modern Satanism.

00:40:01.600 Yeah.

00:40:01.740 Isn't he the one who said that the first and only commandment is do without wilt?

00:40:06.860 Yeah, literally, literally what Satan say, what he does say.

00:40:11.000 That's also the chief claim of liberalism, political liberalism.

00:40:15.180 Just do whatever you want.

00:40:16.280 It doesn't hurt anybody.

00:40:17.400 It doesn't matter.

00:40:18.060 The body of your choice.

00:40:18.760 Yeah, and I was one of those people.

00:40:20.080 I was a full-on, like, liberal, feminist, vegan, witch, all these things, doing whatever because I didn't care.

00:40:28.100 I didn't think that anything mattered, and it's funny when you don't think anything mattered, but I wanted to make contact with something beyond this physical realm.

00:40:36.260 But I just – I was like, okay, I'm just going to do whatever drugs I want.

00:40:39.920 I'm just going to drink.

00:40:41.160 I'm going to sleep around.

00:40:41.940 I'm going to do whatever I want because it feels good, and life is about feeling good and being happy and all these things until it doesn't, until you have to wake up one morning and really face the fact that this isn't making me happy.

00:40:53.700 It's actually causing a lot of damage to myself.

00:40:57.720 Even if I have stable relationships around me, I'm not stable.

00:41:01.660 I'm hurting.

00:41:02.360 I'm in pain, and these crystals aren't working anymore.

00:41:05.280 The saging, you know, lighting sage and thinking that's going to get these tar beings away, that's not working. 1.00

00:41:12.080 The hypnotisms, the law of attraction, the vision boards, the manifestations, all of these things that were working for a little while, they stopped working.

00:41:21.380 They were working in what sense?

00:41:22.840 So I totally thought I manifested myself at Travel Channel Show.

00:41:27.560 Yeah, because I was visualizing it, and I was going through kind of interviews at that point.

00:41:33.240 They're not so much auditions because it wasn't fiction, but I was like, wow, I manifested this.

00:41:39.160 I saw myself doing this, and I manifested my husband.

00:41:43.280 I manifested this and not realizing that I didn't do any of that.

00:41:46.900 So in manifesting for people who are not millennial white women watching this, it's like praying to God, except it's just praying to yourself, basically.

00:41:55.640 Yeah, you're praying to the universe.

00:41:57.560 To the universe.

00:41:57.900 So you kind of, I think some people believe different things.

00:42:02.140 I had the personal belief that the universe, oh my goodness, it's so, it's hard to talk in this sense going back in this verbiage, but I used to think that the universe was, it had your back.

00:42:14.320 It wants to bless you.

00:42:15.460 It wants to give you whatever you want.

00:42:17.000 You just have to align yourself right now with the version of you that has those things.

00:42:22.680 You have to start thinking money thoughts.

00:42:24.440 You have to think, if it's to be rich, you have to think like a rich person.

00:42:28.080 You have to think like this person.

00:42:29.280 You have to visualize it.

00:42:30.980 It's exhausting.

00:42:31.900 It works.

00:42:32.480 You've got to write things down that you're already thankful for.

00:42:35.660 You have to meditate five minutes a day.

00:42:37.280 You've got to do all these things.

00:42:38.880 You've got to do, do, do, do, do all these works, and it was exhausting, and I was doing all of that right up until the moment I got saved.

00:42:44.660 And the moment that I started following Jesus, it was like all that load, that weight, that burden, that I had to do all these things to raise my vibration, to access my higher self, to be the best version of me.

00:43:00.260 Because that's all kind of Pelagian, right? 0.75

00:43:01.980 The Pelagian heresy, the notion that you can save yourself, that you do it through your own will, and you don't necessarily need God's grace.

00:43:09.420 You say that the view is that the universe is going to bless you, but then you end up having to do all these things, and it doesn't exactly work.

00:43:18.640 Whereas Christianity says, it's not that there's no role for you to do stuff.

00:43:22.240 You have to cooperate with God's grace, but it's that God's grace comes first, that God's grace really does it all.

00:43:28.440 So, you're trying to, you think you've manifested the Travel Channel show.

00:43:35.240 Many such cases, I think, in Hollywood, you know, we call it Gamora by the Sea around here.

00:43:39.700 Oh, yeah.

00:43:40.140 And so you've got everything you want.

00:43:43.580 You've got a TV show, that's pretty cool.

00:43:45.220 Mm-hmm.

00:43:46.260 But you're miserable.

00:43:47.700 Miserable because I was experiencing so much dark activity.

00:43:51.280 You know, these things would be with me in my hotel room, messing with me, and literally, I'd be pushed and scratched and pinched and just really taunted and tormented.

00:44:03.340 And I was just riddled with fear all the time, and my health was struggling on and off, and I was just not.

00:44:12.340 Your mental health or your physical?

00:44:13.900 Physical health, and I was struggling with anxiety.

00:44:16.900 I had crazy anxiety.

00:44:18.220 At one point in my journey, I was severely depressed and suicidal.

00:44:23.220 That was, that led me deeper into the witchcraft part of it and all that paranormal nonsense.

00:44:30.060 But I was just, I was really hurting, and I thought that crystals and the law of attraction, that was like, okay, maybe it's not the deep witchcraft.

00:44:38.620 Maybe it's this good, the good magic, the light magic.

00:44:41.440 I thought there was a difference between maybe the darkness and the light that I have to just chase after the light.

00:44:46.460 So you were seeing the weird tar beings and the ghoulish, goblin-y faces. 1.00

00:44:51.940 Do you ever see anything now?

00:44:54.020 Do you see anything in the same way that you would have seen something then, or no?

00:44:58.480 Has that mist evaporated?

00:45:00.880 It really stopped in that sense after I came to the Lord, but I can, sometimes I can see darkness on people.

00:45:11.940 I've seen that, that tar-ness in people.

00:45:15.320 Before I got saved, I was dealing with someone who was under the influence of alcohol and kind of this big fit of rage, and I looked into his eyes, and I could see that same tar in his eyes, and I could just see it kind of wrapped in his body.

00:45:28.740 You mean physically, like you'd see tar going down his, or what's that like?

00:45:34.620 Kind of, it was almost like this flash and image in my head.

00:45:37.200 I'm like, oh, that's what he's struggling with.

00:45:39.300 It's very dark.

00:45:39.780 He has darkness in him, and I could see it in his eyes.

00:45:42.280 I can still see things like that.

00:45:44.940 I can't just straight up see demons like I used to.

00:45:48.220 That's good.

00:45:48.700 I think Satan also, yeah, that's very good.

00:45:52.380 He gives you kind of the perverted gifts of the Spirit where he allows you to, I don't know, see different things and beings, and now I have, I feel like, what's proper with the gift of discernment or being able to see in the spiritual realm.

00:46:08.640 Sometimes I can see what people are struggling with sometimes.

00:46:11.900 The Lord allows me to just have a quick image in my head sometimes, yeah.

00:46:17.200 Yeah, those gifts are quite different, I suppose, in that you might not be able to see, like, squinty goblins, but you might be given patience or something.

00:46:29.200 You know, I'll take patience over goblin vision any day of the week. 0.70

00:46:32.260 Yeah, yeah, because that stuff really, I talk about it a lot with coming out of it.

00:46:37.400 There's a lot of PTSD that came with coming out of paranormal in the new age because of all the stuff that I saw, I didn't know how to handle it, and I didn't know, it just kind of, like, it shakes you because I'm like, how can I, first of all, I could never go to a therapist and talk to them about the goblins that I saw or the demons, these tar beings.

00:46:56.320 They would look at me like I'm crazy, because I'm like, they're not going to understand, like, I need a, I need, spiritual people, and not everybody at church understands these things as well.

00:47:04.240 Did you ever wonder if you just had a screw loose and you needed some Prozac or something?

00:47:08.060 That would probably hit me.

00:47:08.860 I'm like, am I really seeing these things?

00:47:10.420 I'm like, but I got people confirming things with equipment and all these different things.

00:47:16.020 I'm like, okay, but I just, it was wild, and I just, it was, it was really scary.

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00:48:26.300 At this point, do you still think you're talking to ghosts, meaning, you know, generally at the battlefield?

00:48:34.220 Or at this point, are you more aware that you're speaking to demons?

00:48:39.440 I think in my beginning of my paranormal journey, I thought there was just people that had lived and died, not ghosts or demons.

00:48:51.860 That was the beginning.

00:48:53.380 And then as I progressed, I knew there could be, at that point, I thought there could be so much more.

00:48:57.800 That we could be speaking with, it could be an alien, it could be an angelic being from a different dimension, possibly a, what we would call cryptozoology is talking to Bigfoot or some type of different dimensional beings that I would think, demons, people that I've lived on, and just spiritual entities, even elemental energy where animals, that type of stuff as well.

00:49:26.020 So I thought you could really communicate with so many different things, even living people as well.

00:49:31.520 You know, the funniest part is people make fun of Christians because we pray to God and to a man who is God, Christ, and to, depending on your background and your denomination or, you know, Christian tradition, you could venerate saints or the Blessed Mother or something like that.

00:49:51.420 And they make fun of us for all this.

00:49:52.760 Or you could, you could, ancient Christian practice of venerating relics.

00:49:56.560 People say, that's so crazy, it's the craziest thing.

00:49:59.000 Yeah, well, we ain't praying a Bigfoot, you know?

00:50:01.020 Yeah.

00:50:01.160 We ain't praying like a big cryptozoo dog alien or something.

00:50:05.780 But all the really fancy modern libs, they're doing that stuff and they call us nuts.

00:50:10.460 Well, I literally was that person.

00:50:12.960 I was that person.

00:50:13.940 And so it's so crazy to speak on this from the other side where I was, I thought Christianity was just this box of rules just to keep us down.

00:50:22.500 It's a man-made religion.

00:50:23.660 And it wants to cut us off from our tapping into our own God-like abilities.

00:50:30.020 And we have to tap into that ourselves.

00:50:32.380 And I was like, look at, look at Mass.

00:50:35.060 They're literally doing witchcraft on the altar.

00:50:37.320 I'm like, Lord Christ.

00:50:38.240 At Mass at Holy Mass?

00:50:39.000 I would think that.

00:50:39.820 Yeah, as a witch, I'm like, yep, see, they have their chalice and all these things.

00:50:42.780 They have their magic.

00:50:43.820 Well, you know, even that phrase.

00:50:45.360 Well, they invert it.

00:50:46.080 Yes, yes.

00:50:46.680 No, even, you know, the Black Mass is a mockery of the Old Mass. 1.00

00:50:50.780 Everything we do is a mockery.

00:50:51.360 And even this phrase, hocus pocus, I believe the etymology of that is that it's a mockery of hocus enum corpus meus.

00:50:59.580 This is my body, which is the holy words of the consecration.

00:51:03.980 I think hocus pocus is a mockery of that.

00:51:05.900 A lot of things.

00:51:06.960 They love to mock.

00:51:08.480 They love to mock.

00:51:09.160 And that's why the only thing they listen to and obey is the name of Jesus.

00:51:13.360 They literally, it stifles them.

00:51:15.100 And as we know in the spiritual realm, they're very legalistic.

00:51:18.940 And so the moment that you use that authority of Jesus, they shut up.

00:51:24.880 And they are, I mean, they're under, ultimately, they're under the authority of the sovereign law giver.

00:51:30.140 And, you know, I mean, they're not greater than God.

00:51:32.700 That's not going to work for them.

00:51:34.080 So I guess that's my question then.

00:51:36.320 You're in all this craziness and you're praying to Bigfoot and doing all this weird stuff.

00:51:40.860 And do you ever, does your early Christian life ever return to you and say, huh, I've tried every single thing I can possibly do from the sage to the pendula to the whatever.

00:51:52.840 Shall I perhaps pray to God?

00:51:54.740 Might that do something for me or?

00:51:56.560 Never even.

00:51:58.160 I shouldn't laugh at it.

00:51:59.360 No, no, but like when you really look back, it never even crossed my mind because I just thought that's, that's just man-made religion.

00:52:07.440 It's a set of rules and there's no guy in the sky, but let me just pray to the sky.

00:52:13.640 Yeah, I don't.

00:52:14.920 It all seemed so normal at the time.

00:52:18.360 It did.

00:52:19.200 It felt very, how do I put it, like just mystical and wild and it felt really ancient.

00:52:26.480 I remember visiting Ireland where my family's from and I really wanted to go to a summer festival and I forget which one it was, but I was like, I really want to get in touch with my pagan roots.

00:52:36.280 I want to reject all that and get in touch with that and it just, I think we are spiritual beings.

00:52:43.440 Obviously, God made us that way and we're constantly craving spiritual experiences because we're meant to communicate spiritually with our creator.

00:52:50.680 That's how he made us and we're going to be searching everywhere we can because we're very distracted, curious beings.

00:52:58.040 He made us very curious with free will.

00:52:59.940 It just depends on what you do with that free will, whether that's going to lead you down darkness and destruction or it's going to lead you to life and freedom with Jesus.

00:53:08.520 It's funny that people have this sense.

00:53:10.500 You're not the only one I've heard express it.

00:53:12.240 We say, well, I want to get back to the true old religion. 1.00

00:53:15.740 There's a fascination in the West, especially in the 60s and 70s, with Eastern religion.

00:53:20.100 You know, there's a phrase in the Northeast, the Jew boo, which is some lady who's like probably reformed secular Jew who doesn't take that religion seriously at all, but she's really into like yoga or whatever. 1.00

00:53:32.660 So it's the Jew, the Buddhist, the Jew boo. 0.96

00:53:35.420 And, but it's, it's all sorts of people like this and you think, okay, I want to get back to my druidic Irish pagan roots.

00:53:41.940 And that, does it ever occur to you, you know, they all converted because St. Patrick worked miracles in front of them.

00:53:50.520 Right.

00:53:51.040 With the true religion. 0.80

00:53:52.260 God loved my father.

00:53:53.720 He, he's born a grand, born again Christian and he was praying for me that whole time.

00:53:58.220 We tried to have conversations and I was living, um, during all this, I was also living with, um, my grandparents at the time as well.

00:54:06.400 And just, this was after my parents' divorce, that also caused a lot of hurt.

00:54:10.400 So I was seeking just a lot of trauma.

00:54:12.760 People that go through trauma, we're trying to heal, we're seeking just anything we can to feel good, whether it's drugs, alcohol, crystals, talking to ghosts.

00:54:20.820 But, um, my dad never stopped praying for me and trying to talk to me, but it just fell on deaf ears.

00:54:27.200 I just, I didn't want to hear it.

00:54:28.600 And it wasn't until, like, right, obviously right before I got saved, it was the lockdowns and COVID and, um, just everything that was going on in 2020, I was experiencing extreme anxiety.

00:54:43.480 And everything that I was listening to, like the liberal media, all these different things, all the protests happening, like, I can't get by this stuff.

00:54:52.800 I, I just, I don't agree.

00:54:54.420 I'm like, but I don't believe in Jesus.

00:54:57.320 I, like, okay, let me just try to sage myself.

00:54:59.640 Let me just try to visualize this.

00:55:01.660 And, well, I know I didn't manifest having to cancel my wedding this October.

00:55:05.620 Like, I didn't manifest any of this stuff.

00:55:07.300 I had all these hopes and dreams and everything stopped working.

00:55:11.880 And I felt the Lord calling me.

00:55:15.440 I was just like, what, what is this that I feel?

00:55:17.960 I just felt, um, led to watch an Easter service.

00:55:21.300 I had flirted with going to church throughout my time in the paranormal.

00:55:25.940 Just over the course of maybe, like, five, six years, I was back and forth going to church.

00:55:30.180 But I always felt really filthy and unworthy because I didn't understand grace and forgiveness.

00:55:36.460 And that if I just repented and asked him to forgive my sins, I would have been washed clean.

00:55:41.240 But the, the enemy really lied to me.

00:55:44.280 It's like, you're not, you don't belong here.

00:55:46.240 You're too disgusting.

00:55:47.460 If they only knew all the partying you did and what you were doing.

00:55:51.380 So I would, I fell away very quickly.

00:55:53.500 But this is the thing.

00:55:54.720 I've, I've gone to confession a hundred billion times.

00:55:58.340 And even still, when I'm in the confession line, when I'm driving up and I go into the

00:56:03.160 confession line, I feel the sense of, I can't, can I really be forgiven for this?

00:56:08.200 And it's this trick that the devil plays, which is he tells, right before you sin, he

00:56:12.740 tells you it's no big deal.

00:56:13.800 It's really not, it's barely even a sin.

00:56:15.240 Don't worry about it.

00:56:15.820 It's no big deal.

00:56:16.420 And then the second you, you do it, he says, you'll never be forgiven.

00:56:19.880 This is so horrible.

00:56:20.860 You can never, and the closer you get to confessing your sins to God, please can't say,

00:56:26.160 I absolve you of your sins, spirit, real spiritual authority given by Christ.

00:56:31.300 The closer you get to that, you, it's, you can feel like you're, you're being pulled away

00:56:35.580 from it.

00:56:35.960 No, you know, is that's the, it's the last gasp of it.

00:56:38.980 Yeah.

00:56:39.420 And I felt that right up into the moment of getting saved where, you know, content I started

00:56:44.900 watching was turned more conservative.

00:56:47.660 I'm like, okay, everyone's talking about Jesus.

00:56:49.980 What is up with this Jesus guy?

00:56:51.960 Maybe I should look into this.

00:56:53.480 And so I started talking to my dad and my stepmother and, you know, they've done mission

00:56:57.600 work and my husband and I would literally just have four hour long conversations.

00:57:01.920 Just, okay, why Jesus?

00:57:04.460 Why only Jesus?

00:57:05.740 Why can't I also have like an altar?

00:57:08.640 Why can't I do tarot cards?

00:57:09.880 And I love my spiritual stuff.

00:57:11.500 I love my crystals and wands and all these things.

00:57:13.520 Like, and they were just so gracious.

00:57:15.540 They spoke the truth, truth in love.

00:57:17.420 They were bold about it.

00:57:18.480 They were loving about it.

00:57:19.720 And they were just, they'd ministered to us and just really told us the truth.

00:57:24.820 And so I don't even know the exact date, but the moment I realized my sin, I understood

00:57:32.380 that everything I had been doing for so long was just, it was sin.

00:57:39.640 It was an abomination that God detested it.

00:57:42.620 And it wasn't that I felt that he hated me or anything.

00:57:46.040 It was just, oh my goodness, I can't believe I was doing this.

00:57:48.660 And just the weight of all that came on me.

00:57:50.680 And I'm like, Lord, save me.

00:57:52.440 I'm sorry.

00:57:52.940 I repent for all of this.

00:57:54.500 I want to follow you now.

00:57:56.120 And it was all that burden.

00:57:57.960 It lifted off of me.

00:58:00.020 And he just brought me to such freedom.

00:58:02.860 And I threw out all of those things, all of the occult items, the paranormal equipment,

00:58:07.640 the crystals, the wands, the cauldron, the herbs, the tarot cards, everything, every self-help book and crazy alien stuff.

00:58:16.120 I threw it all away, just that they didn't act, the Axe Church, they got rid of all their occult items and whatnot.

00:58:21.280 And I just said, Lord, you have my life now.

00:58:23.520 Three things hit me about that.

00:58:25.580 One, this is a girl who's burning sage to get the eight-foot-tall tar beings away from her. 0.99

00:58:30.760 And you thought that was normal, but Dr. Fauci was a bridge too far.

00:58:35.760 That shows you how crazy the public response during COVID was.

00:58:39.640 It was so nuts that even when you are praying to the Yeti, you say, hold on, these guys are really wacky.

00:58:47.740 Okay, so that's the first thing.

00:58:49.180 The second thing, you're recognizing what St. Paul is writing in Romans, which is that the law comes not really to save you.

00:58:56.840 You can't really save you, but it does show you your sin.

00:59:00.640 It's not that the law is false.

00:59:01.920 It's not that, yeah, but it just reflects your sin.

00:59:03.920 So you see that, and then you see your need for a savior.

00:59:06.160 And then all these little doodads, all the cauldrons and the whatever and all, you say, okay, it's all bunk.

00:59:17.520 You just toss all of it away.

00:59:20.220 Overnight?

00:59:22.480 Pretty much, I think, within two weeks.

00:59:25.680 I didn't realize, I'm like, I wasn't using them anymore.

00:59:29.020 But I literally, I think I cried for about two weeks, just, oh my gosh, Lord, I love you so much.

00:59:34.000 Thank you.

00:59:34.320 I'm so sorry.

00:59:34.980 Just being in his presence and understanding everything that I had done.

00:59:41.540 It was just really, I cried for two weeks.

00:59:43.840 And then once I understood, I'm like, okay, this isn't my life anymore.

00:59:47.740 I don't identify with these things anymore.

00:59:49.620 They are not, I don't want to give the enemy a foothold in my life.

00:59:53.220 Any open door in my life to come in and I'm out of agreement with these things, so I get rid of them.

00:59:59.040 I don't want to have anything to do with the evil works of darkness.

01:00:01.240 Now, speaking of this open door, I want to talk about something you mentioned just a little bit earlier, but it ties in exactly to this.

01:00:06.220 Yep.

01:00:06.960 You mentioned Freemasonry.

01:00:07.720 Freemasonry.

01:00:08.280 Now, Freemasonry has played a big role in not just American politics since the founding, but all over the continent.

01:00:16.900 It's been a big part of modernity, and the Freemasons will say that it goes all the way back to Solomon's temple, but there are a lot of stories about these clubs.

01:00:24.580 In America, I'm buddies with some Masons. 0.99

01:00:28.200 They're very nice guys, and they just think of it as a social club.

01:00:31.880 In America, more so than in continental Europe, it is kind of a social club.

01:00:35.780 And yet, at least for me, you know, I'm a mackerel-snapping papist, the Catholic Church says you cannot be a Freemason.

01:00:42.940 In fact, you would automatically be excommunicated.

01:00:45.980 It is that Freemasonry is incompatible with the Christian faith in a way that when I mention this to friends of mine who have been involved in Masonry, they say,

01:00:54.560 That's crazy.

01:00:55.340 That's totally—why is that?

01:00:57.400 So why is that?

01:00:58.160 Why were you seeing a Mason connection in some of these weird demon ghost houses?

01:01:02.260 So I'm not an expert.

01:01:03.740 I don't want to claim to be, but from—just from what I've gathered, you're making an oath in secret, and when you're coming—I know the Bible talks about not—don't make oaths, especially in secret as well, because what is ever done in secret will come to light.

01:01:18.160 But my only oath is to Jesus and God, and that's all I can really say on that.

01:01:24.460 But I know that some people may follow the Bible or whatnot.

01:01:29.720 There might be other hidden deeds of darkness.

01:01:33.380 I am not at liberty to even go down that path.

01:01:36.980 I'm not an expert on that, so I don't want to go down a field that I don't.

01:01:40.100 I'm not an expert.

01:01:41.100 That's never stopped me before.

01:01:42.580 You know, you made me think of one of the explanations when you said, Why Jesus?

01:01:49.260 Why only Jesus?

01:01:51.120 Why—and this, I think, really, beyond all the conspiracies and the French Revolution and all the kind of thoughts about this,

01:01:56.920 this gets to the heart of it, which is that, as I understand it—I don't know anything about Freemasonry—but as I understand it,

01:02:04.960 it posits a kind of naturalistic religion that says as long as you believe in an abstract supreme being,

01:02:11.480 then you're good, and you're all kind of on even footing, and it has its own rituals.

01:02:16.520 I mean, you mentioned that the occult is kind of a mockery of the Christian sacraments.

01:02:20.660 So it has its own kind of initiation, its own kind of baptism.

01:02:23.820 It has its own funeral rites.

01:02:25.360 It has its own altars.

01:02:26.440 It has its own feast days.

01:02:28.360 It has—that it is—whatever else you want to say about it, it is—it fulfills a lot of the criteria of religions.

01:02:38.580 Right.

01:02:39.100 In a way that—

01:02:39.520 Almost like pagan.

01:02:40.120 Yes, without the exclusivity of Christ.

01:02:42.200 Right.

01:02:43.000 Right.

01:02:43.280 I—yeah, I've seen some of these rituals and whatnot, and all I know is, I'm like, that doesn't look like it comes from the Lord.

01:02:50.440 I'm like, red flag.

01:02:52.600 Have you seen them?

01:02:53.240 Just random YouTube things, like, not in person.

01:02:55.880 You didn't sneak in.

01:02:56.880 No, I've actually been—I'm trying to think where this is.

01:02:59.320 The Houghton Mansion up in Massachusetts, way out west, like almost the very corner of it.

01:03:04.920 I was in a Masonic lodge, and we were able to go into the temple.

01:03:10.120 Were you ghost hunting there?

01:03:11.340 Ghost hunting.

01:03:11.740 Yeah, okay.

01:03:12.280 So, just doing all the things, and we were able to go inside, and we didn't do a lot of, I don't think, like readings or stuff in there, but I was able to just see inside of it and whatnot, and they did have a Bible in the center here.

01:03:24.440 I'm going to, like, upset a bunch of Freemasons here, but I'm just like— 0.99

01:03:27.120 They're going to come assassinate you.

01:03:28.180 I know.

01:03:28.700 Watch out.

01:03:29.460 No, but all I know is from what I have just seen—

01:03:32.000 They're mostly like pretty nice guys.

01:03:33.620 Very nice guys.

01:03:34.240 No, I have family that is—

01:03:35.660 But plenty of nice guys fall into mistaken ideologies and religious views.

01:03:39.980 Nice doesn't get you to heaven.

01:03:42.280 Christ does.

01:03:43.340 I thought you just had to be a good person, but then what is good?

01:03:46.960 Who defines what is good?

01:03:48.080 That's kind of this problem we have in the world right now is the moral relativism, where, well, I get to define what is good, and you see this with pro-life arguments, with everything out in the world right now.

01:03:58.960 Like, whatever, I'm a good person, but it's very arbitrary, and everyone else gets to decide it.

01:04:04.260 And I thought we could all decide our own morals and what is good.

01:04:09.520 And so when we're left to our own standard, it's going to vary, and it's all going to fall short.

01:04:15.520 And that's why God and Jesus is the only standard.

01:04:18.580 At any point before you return to faith, at any point when you're seeing the tar beings and you're hearing the voices and you're depressed and you're suicidal even, do you talk to anyone about this?

01:04:32.080 Oh, yeah, definitely.

01:04:34.220 I mean, like, my husband, my fiancé at the time, well, boyfriend, fiancé, husband now, talk to him about it all.

01:04:40.180 But he, like I said, he was coming out of atheism, so he didn't know what to make of all of it.

01:04:44.720 But believe it or not, the paranormal world is a very big community.

01:04:49.460 It's deep, and especially now with the programming you see on TV, there's entire channels that are dedicated to paranormal programming.

01:04:56.940 There's events.

01:04:58.120 There's conventions.

01:04:59.840 There's local ghost hunts.

01:05:01.900 There's local ghost tours.

01:05:03.680 I'm sure, like, a lot of historic cities, especially where I'm from, Boston area, I hosted them myself during the Halloween season especially,

01:05:11.300 which we would call the paranormal Christmas because it was a very big thing, a lot of events.

01:05:16.320 We would host things at haunted locations and bring people along.

01:05:20.120 It was a fun thing for people to do.

01:05:22.180 But, yeah, I just, it has such a foothold on people, and people are just so curious about it.

01:05:30.820 Everyone has a ghost story.

01:05:32.620 Everyone has a ghost story.

01:05:34.560 Yeah.

01:05:35.320 But you think they're all just seeing demons.

01:05:36.840 I think they could largely be seeing demons.

01:05:38.460 I guess I just, I do think ghosts can be real in principle.

01:05:43.860 I kind of agree.

01:05:44.840 I think there's more in heaven and earth than it's dreamt of in our philosophy, Horatio.

01:05:47.860 Not the Yetis or the ETs. 1.00

01:05:49.540 Right.

01:05:49.660 But I do think that there's such, you know, it's just spirits.

01:05:53.260 What do you make of the alien stuff?

01:05:57.500 I personally think that is a demonic agenda.

01:06:00.820 Totally.

01:06:01.020 I think they're coming as aliens because I think that's the one thing that could unite humanity is a threat outside of what's on this planet.

01:06:12.220 And I think there's been different projects maybe talked about.

01:06:16.420 I think Project Blue Beam is something.

01:06:18.120 What's that?

01:06:18.540 I don't know anything about it.

01:06:19.220 I believe, I don't know, I've heard it talk about like where that could be a false flag having to do with aliens, probably drones or something.

01:06:26.880 But I think the end times also talks about just a lot of, I'm not an expert on the end times as well.

01:06:33.480 Who is?

01:06:34.240 I know.

01:06:34.640 I have a priest friend who says a sure sign of madness is when someone tells you he totally understands the book of the apocalypse.

01:06:40.540 Right.

01:06:40.740 That's a guaranteed sign of madness.

01:06:42.080 I'm just like, I just love God and I'm following him and I'm like, no one's going to know until it happens and we can all have theories and whatnot.

01:06:49.660 But there's some things that you have to agree on and there's other things that are just secondary and they're very interesting.

01:06:56.960 I'm not a biblical scholar, but I just.

01:06:58.460 I agree.

01:06:58.940 I think the alien thing is a total psyop and I think it is usually a sign that someone is at least entertaining New Age mysticism and Gnosticism.

01:07:08.900 Or at the very least is not all that rigid about their theological views.

01:07:16.660 Yeah.

01:07:17.040 I was very much into aliens at one point.

01:07:20.080 I thought I was a star seed.

01:07:22.800 So basically it's the belief that you are a being from a different like planetary system.

01:07:28.760 There's different types that you're sent.

01:07:30.440 This is right before I got saved.

01:07:32.060 So I didn't believe this the whole time, but that's how far I had fallen before God was just like, nope.

01:07:37.660 But so you're a what what is a star seed?

01:07:41.000 You think you're from another galaxy?

01:07:42.880 Yeah.

01:07:43.100 It's the belief that you have come from this different names for the galaxies.

01:07:47.480 I thought I was a Pleiadian or something like that.

01:07:50.080 You struck me as like a quarter Pleiadian, a quarter Italian. 0.99

01:07:53.320 I get that a lot, actually.

01:07:54.420 But I came from this other dimension to help humanity reach the next dimension.

01:08:01.340 I got into a lot of alien stuff right before I got saved.

01:08:06.860 Talk about like these blue avians, there's different types of aliens.

01:08:11.480 What's a blue avian?

01:08:12.560 Apparently it's a type of alien that's really big and blue and kind of has a bird beak.

01:08:16.760 And they communicate with people and tell them things telepathically.

01:08:21.660 I was following a lot of people in that realm and kind of, I don't know what you would call it, very new agey, very, I don't really know the term for it.

01:08:32.580 But they were into a lot of new age and talking about the earth going from the third dimension to the fifth dimension.

01:08:38.720 So we all have to collectively agree and meditate and raise the vibrations.

01:08:43.900 Yeah, those vibrations, man.

01:08:45.620 Yeah, man.

01:08:46.080 They're not high enough, you know.

01:08:47.440 One thing I notice about a number of people, also many of them are very nice.

01:08:52.360 I find that we're speaking of, you know, the Freemasons are very nice.

01:08:56.860 They're nice in kind of like a normal way.

01:08:58.920 And these guys are nice in a really weird way.

01:09:01.660 But they are, a lot of the new agey guys, they're really kind of sweet a lot of the time.

01:09:05.620 But something that I find unites all of them, they all just coincidentally seem to be saving the world.

01:09:12.580 You ever notice that?

01:09:13.600 Yeah.

01:09:14.340 Oh, yeah.

01:09:14.820 It sells books, too.

01:09:16.160 I don't think I'm saving the world.

01:09:17.700 No.

01:09:18.120 I hope I'm cooperating with God's grace in a way that is in any way appropriate.

01:09:21.880 I hope I am.

01:09:22.640 I don't, you know, and a lot of times I'm not.

01:09:25.100 But I'm not.

01:09:26.040 I'm sure I ain't saving the world.

01:09:28.200 Right.

01:09:28.440 Thank God we're not.

01:09:29.620 Because that's, there's a reason.

01:09:30.960 The world would not fare very well.

01:09:32.640 Yeah, same.

01:09:33.320 And there's a reason that the Lord says, like, Jesus tells us to take on his yoke.

01:09:38.060 It's easy.

01:09:38.500 And his burden is light.

01:09:40.000 The burdens of this world, they're so heavy.

01:09:43.060 And I know that even just in my everyday life, if I'm not constantly giving up those burdens and laying them at his feet, I start to feel the weight and I crumble.

01:09:52.440 And before I got saved, I felt the burden of having to save the world, whether it was through being vegan, being the best feminist I could be, being as whatever checkbox identity I could be.

01:10:06.940 But also having to save the world, getting into a lot of these ideologies that we have to band together and save the world and we've got to overcome darkness.

01:10:16.500 You know, I've never put that together.

01:10:18.620 But that, even though I just articulated this idea unknowingly, that is what unites the veganism, the climate change hysteria, the hardcore feminists, they're all, the communists, they're all trying to liberate. 0.99

01:10:35.420 Yes.

01:10:35.780 The save humanity from the sun monster or liberate women from the false consciousness or liberate the proletariat from the shackles of their oppression or liberate free, free, save, save.

01:10:46.200 It's all the same.

01:10:47.600 Even the new agey people trying to raise the vibrations on the ley lines or whatever.

01:10:51.160 It's all, it's all about saving the world.

01:10:56.580 But then they also say nothing matters.

01:10:59.180 And they're also nihilists.

01:11:01.040 So I'm like, wait, so what are you, who are you trying to save the world for?

01:11:03.640 I have people that I know, like, stop having kids.

01:11:06.940 The earth has too many kids, but we've got to save the earth.

01:11:10.340 I'm like, for who then?

01:11:11.440 Yeah.

01:11:12.380 Who are we saving the earth for?

01:11:13.520 The rocks.

01:11:13.920 Yeah.

01:11:14.360 Nothing matters, but we have to save all these things.

01:11:16.820 For the bluebird aliens.

01:11:18.020 Yeah.

01:11:18.160 That's what you've got to save it for.

01:11:19.080 Exactly.

01:11:19.800 You mentioned self-help books.

01:11:21.600 Yeah.

01:11:21.780 You threw out your goblets and your cauldrons and your crystals and your sage and your self-help books.

01:11:27.460 Yeah.

01:11:28.660 Now, a lot of people are going to be listening.

01:11:30.160 They're going to say, well, I don't have any goblets.

01:11:31.640 Maybe I have like a Waterford crystal snifter or something.

01:11:33.840 But I don't have any sage other than for the pork.

01:11:37.240 I don't have any, but I do have a lot of self-help books.

01:11:40.780 What's wrong with that?

01:11:42.900 I think it depends.

01:11:44.800 Mine were very new agey, but I think self, you can't help yourself.

01:11:50.980 I couldn't help myself because the self, I'm the problem.

01:11:55.860 I'm the problem.

01:11:57.140 How am I going to help myself?

01:11:58.560 To quote Miley Cyrus, it's me.

01:12:00.500 I'm the problem.

01:12:01.160 It's me.

01:12:01.400 Is that Miley?

01:12:02.080 I don't know.

01:12:02.640 Is that Miley?

01:12:03.080 I think that was Miley.

01:12:04.140 Taylor.

01:12:04.700 Okay.

01:12:04.900 I don't know.

01:12:05.060 I don't listen to them.

01:12:06.460 But yeah, I can't get myself out of this.

01:12:11.280 And my help comes from the Lord.

01:12:14.360 My strength comes from the Lord.

01:12:15.900 And the best self-help book, Bible.

01:12:18.940 Yeah, of course.

01:12:19.360 I've gotten, like, it's unbelievable.

01:12:21.600 That's because his word is alive.

01:12:23.120 It's breathing.

01:12:24.020 It's, it's, I just love it so much.

01:12:28.660 He's just done so much for me.

01:12:29.960 And he's just revealed, it convicts me all the ways that, like, I do need to change.

01:12:35.100 And like, yes, there is responsibility on my part.

01:12:38.360 I do work out my salvation.

01:12:39.600 I do, sanctification is a process and whatnot, but I can rest in him and know that he's going

01:12:46.840 to lead me on the right path.

01:12:48.240 And it's more than any self-help book can ever do for me or that I could pay any self-help

01:12:55.120 guru to go to their conferences to buy their next book because, oh, they have the next best

01:13:00.000 answer.

01:13:00.640 Oh, this is the next best thing you have to do.

01:13:02.420 And it's just this, like, this treadmill of just constantly buying books and going to

01:13:08.700 seminars and all these things.

01:13:09.940 And you just get nowhere.

01:13:11.540 You get nowhere.

01:13:12.340 You're not, you're just treading on a treadmill and you're not actually running the good race.

01:13:16.000 Yeah, you ever notice that the most miserable people you ever met in your whole life have

01:13:20.520 the largest collection of self-help books?

01:13:22.920 You as well.

01:13:23.740 That was me.

01:13:24.480 Yeah.

01:13:25.260 Yeah.

01:13:25.380 But then people would say, well, yeah, they're miserable.

01:13:27.700 That's why they're buying all the self-help books.

01:13:29.100 Well, it's like the guy who goes to therapy for 40 years.

01:13:32.420 And it only gets worse.

01:13:34.120 You say, maybe get a new therapist.

01:13:35.680 I don't know.

01:13:36.380 Yeah.

01:13:36.840 Maybe talk to someone else.

01:13:38.080 Maybe, like, nothing wrong with going to talk to somebody, but where's the change?

01:13:42.780 Even, like, you could be going to church for so long.

01:13:45.560 Yeah.

01:13:46.760 You're still the same person.

01:13:48.180 You're still not operating in kindness and love.

01:13:50.800 You're still living in the flesh.

01:13:52.540 You're not repentant.

01:13:53.460 You're not the same person Monday through Saturday as you are on Sunday.

01:13:57.280 So, like, it kind of doesn't matter who you are, whether you're in church or not.

01:14:02.040 It says, what's the fruit of your life?

01:14:04.120 Are you living with the fruits of the Spirit?

01:14:05.840 Like, that you'll be shown by your works.

01:14:08.520 Shown by your fruit of your life.

01:14:10.440 Of course.

01:14:11.000 Of course.

01:14:11.440 I mean, this is, I was mentioning confession earlier.

01:14:13.800 When you go in, a requirement of the sacrament is you have to be sincerely repentant and with the authority to loosen, to bind, you know, to forgive sins and to retain sins.

01:14:24.160 The priest can say, hey, are you serious?

01:14:26.860 Are you actually going to, do you actually have a firm resolve not to commit that sin anymore?

01:14:30.700 Because if not, I can't forgive you.

01:14:32.120 I just can't do it.

01:14:32.900 It's not going to do anything.

01:14:34.080 If you're not, as St. Paul writes, if you're not discerning the body, and actually the early Christian writers write this too, if you're not, then it's, if you're just kind of going through the motions, that's not going to work.

01:14:43.620 Like a toddler, I'm sure you can understand as a father, just like, I'm sorry.

01:14:46.980 They're just doing things just to do it, or like siblings, you're just, you're saying sorry just to say you're sorry, but are you really sorry?

01:14:52.820 Yeah.

01:14:53.000 That's why God doesn't look at our works.

01:14:54.660 Our works are like filthy rags to Him.

01:14:56.560 That's why you can't save yourself.

01:14:58.060 There's nothing you can do to get into heaven.

01:15:01.100 That's why, for by grace we are saved.

01:15:03.560 And the moment that, like, nothing I can do to get me into heaven, it's the heart.

01:15:08.580 It's faith.

01:15:09.660 And it's, God looks at your heart, and He sees that.

01:15:12.460 This is also, a parallel would be the perpetual sacrifice on the altar, you know, Christ's perpetual sacrifice, which is, for modern people, is very difficult to grasp.

01:15:21.980 But the sacrifice on the cross is eternal.

01:15:26.120 It's an eternal act.

01:15:27.500 And it's not like it just happened once, and, I mean, Christ does conquer death once.

01:15:31.880 But it's perpetual in the sense that, while the matter of the sacrifice is, you know, the body, the form of the sacrifice is the will.

01:15:42.500 And Christ wills, His will is that sacrifice eternally.

01:15:46.960 And so, like, if you're not discerning that, participating in that, if you're not, if you're just, like, walking through a door and maybe kneeling and maybe, then you're going to have a hard time.

01:15:59.160 And now go down about 50,000 rungs to, you know, I am happy and you can too by Johnny, and, you know, and you read these stupid books.

01:16:11.020 And there, I guess, I would disagree that only the Bible is a self-help book in the sense, and maybe that's not the claim you're making.

01:16:17.560 But there is a sense that there are derivative works from the Bible that are good.

01:16:22.000 There is, like, good Christian self-help.

01:16:23.460 There's great Christian authors that I've been helped, like, I have many books, I'm like, I don't want to. 1.00

01:16:27.680 C.S. Lewis is a pretty good one, you know.

01:16:29.480 There's a great book, I think it's from the 16th century, called The Spiritual Combat by Dom Lorenzo Scupoli.

01:16:35.680 A marvelous, marvelous book.

01:16:37.280 I counted it a few years ago.

01:16:38.680 Very practical steps on spiritual combat.

01:16:42.220 Or self-help based on the natural virtues.

01:16:47.460 So, like, Aristotle's Ethics or something like that.

01:16:50.780 But that's not what modern self-help is, is it?

01:16:53.040 What's that stuff?

01:16:54.300 I personally, I see it as tapping into, like, think of someone like Tony.

01:17:00.520 I was very into Tony Robbins at one point.

01:17:02.280 And I think there's some good aspects where some people need to get out of this, like, self-destructive state.

01:17:08.860 But it has you looking at yourself almost like a God being where you're tapping into your inner, I don't know how to describe, like, your inner lion, your inner being that you can just become this great person and all these things.

01:17:24.140 And all I know is that it didn't help me.

01:17:27.000 Maybe it helped me for a little bit.

01:17:29.380 But ultimately, when things got dark or when I was experiencing hardships in my life and it just, everything fell on me to fix.

01:17:39.020 So, all right, I fixed myself.

01:17:40.260 So, when I started feeling bad again, I'm like, well, I must not have worked.

01:17:44.880 Maybe I just got to go deeper.

01:17:46.500 Well, maybe I got more work to do.

01:17:48.480 Oh, man, I didn't do enough.

01:17:49.920 I got to do more.

01:17:51.240 Okay, maybe I have to, people that have come out of the New Age will know what I'm talking about.

01:17:55.060 So, integrate my shadow self.

01:17:57.420 I need to get in touch with my shadow self now.

01:18:00.440 I've elevated this part of me, so now the shadow part, my...

01:18:04.180 I am.

01:18:04.980 I'm just looking from the studio lights.

01:18:06.880 I don't know that I've integrated my...

01:18:08.580 I still have a shadow.

01:18:09.700 No.

01:18:10.060 What is the integration of the shadow self?

01:18:11.660 Well, like, from a Christian point of view, that's our flesh.

01:18:13.660 That's our...

01:18:14.460 The flesh.

01:18:15.000 But for...

01:18:16.160 In the New Age, it's your dark side, I guess.

01:18:20.400 Your hurts, your pains.

01:18:22.540 I don't even know exactly.

01:18:24.500 Your vices?

01:18:25.320 I think your vices, all these things.

01:18:26.920 It's funny.

01:18:27.420 Like, I would be able to talk about these things without ever fully knowing what they meant

01:18:31.960 or where these ideas came from.

01:18:33.540 I'd be following these gurus, and I would be on the lives.

01:18:36.060 I'm like, they'd be talking about the 11 laws of the universe.

01:18:38.420 And I literally would ask, I'm like, where did these laws come from?

01:18:41.560 They would never answer me.

01:18:43.020 And I would actually get really annoyed and upset.

01:18:45.240 I'm like, I just...

01:18:46.020 I like to know where things come from.

01:18:48.240 And I think that's ultimately what led me to Jesus, because there's good evidence there.

01:18:52.960 You can tell where everything's coming from, and it's not just made up.

01:18:58.300 Yeah, I can tell you the history of the gravitational constant.

01:19:00.880 I can't tell you the history of the 11 magical laws of self-help or whatever.

01:19:05.660 Yeah, like the universal and manifestation and all these things.

01:19:08.640 And people wouldn't be able to tell me, because they would come from these channeled books

01:19:12.320 that people would channel beings, and they would get this information from spiritual demon

01:19:18.880 beings.

01:19:19.720 Yeah.

01:19:19.920 And then they would just kind of, different people would kind of take those same concepts

01:19:25.180 and regurgitate it into their own self-help books and whatnot.

01:19:28.440 So that's the thing, like a lot of these self-help books, you don't know where some of these

01:19:31.620 ideologies are coming from.

01:19:33.200 They could be pagan and demonic in nature.

01:19:35.920 And that's why I'm like, if it's not coming from good, sound teaching, you just got to be

01:19:40.840 using discernment at this point.

01:19:42.860 There's an observation longstanding, it's not original, that one of the pities of people 0.80

01:19:48.400 selling themselves is how low the price is.

01:19:53.500 You know, the notion that you would mortgage your soul or attempt to sell your soul for

01:19:59.800 like Oprah book club self-help gobbledygook is so pathetic that you would give up true revealed

01:20:08.260 religion and natural religion, even for that matter, for like some dumb quartz rock or whatever

01:20:16.960 is so, and for, you say, no, man, you know, it's like, man, St. Augustine and St. Thomas

01:20:23.160 Aquinas and like all the doctors of the church ever, they're all a bunch of dumb idiots, but

01:20:28.260 let me tell you about the blue-beaked bird demon or whatever.

01:20:31.500 Have I got some news for you.

01:20:33.320 The alien, not demon, alien.

01:20:34.740 Yeah.

01:20:34.840 Yeah, good grief.

01:20:35.880 Like, I used to think those rocks and stuff, I'm like, well, God made the rocks, so obviously

01:20:40.880 they're good and I can use this one for love and healing and this one will protect me from

01:20:47.220 demonic activity and this one will help me tap into my psychic powers and clearly God

01:20:53.380 made these so I can use them for the things that he tells me to stay away from.

01:20:58.980 Yeah.

01:20:59.560 You know, look, I see actually why that's attractive.

01:21:02.580 Yeah.

01:21:02.820 It's God made me too, but, you know, sin and death pervade the world because of the

01:21:07.940 fall, so we don't blame him for that.

01:21:11.000 But I love, people do this with drugs sometimes, they'll say, especially with pot, the old sin

01:21:15.400 spinach, you know, the devil's lettuce, the Haitian oregano, you might have heard of it.

01:21:18.800 Yes.

01:21:19.180 Yeah, Peruvian parsley.

01:21:20.140 And they'll say, you know, whenever you make even a mild criticism of the old marijuana,

01:21:27.200 they'll jump on you and they'll say, hey, man, how could you say that?

01:21:31.200 You know, God made pot, man, it's natural.

01:21:34.060 I'm like, a hemlock is natural.

01:21:35.360 You're going to drink that?

01:21:36.420 That's not a good idea.

01:21:37.720 Right.

01:21:37.920 Speaking of goblets.

01:21:38.960 Yeah, but you have to do so much to get to that point, don't you?

01:21:41.480 I'm like, I don't know.

01:21:42.440 I never grew it or anything.

01:21:44.060 Partook a few times, but.

01:21:45.320 A few times.

01:21:45.640 You never inhaled.

01:21:46.280 No, by accident, worst experience of my life.

01:21:50.700 I took a few puffs on the jazz cigarettes every now and again.

01:21:53.520 Never did much for me.

01:21:54.980 I don't like it.

01:21:55.740 I preferred alcohol at that point because I could control it better and I liked the feeling

01:22:01.860 it gave me and whatnot.

01:22:03.460 It's a great way to wake up.

01:22:04.560 No, I'm joking.

01:22:05.100 Don't do it.

01:22:06.120 No, but I like, you know, I don't really have a druggie personality.

01:22:10.600 That's not, of all my sins, that's not one of them.

01:22:12.280 So, but booze, it's a very, you have a glass of wine or two, a cocktail or something.

01:22:17.080 It makes you more sociable.

01:22:18.260 It makes you a little more outgoing.

01:22:19.380 Whereas a lot of other drugs that the libs and the new age people are into, it's just,

01:22:24.420 it makes you more introverted.

01:22:26.600 It makes you kind of quieter.

01:22:28.440 You're in your own experience.

01:22:30.040 Yeah.

01:22:30.260 And like, I, I didn't do, didn't like pop, but I would like other different like party

01:22:35.720 drugs and stuff like that.

01:22:36.740 And it would just wake me up and make me feel alive.

01:22:40.520 And I remember, man, I was just so lost and broken that I would go to church still buzzed

01:22:47.400 and high from the night before.

01:22:49.340 I would wake up in another guy's bed and just super early in the morning on a Sunday, I'm

01:22:54.220 like, where are you going?

01:22:55.600 I'm like, I gotta go to church.

01:22:57.020 I was so broken.

01:22:58.360 That's better than not going to church.

01:22:59.420 Right.

01:22:59.900 And, but I just, I would be watching the music and I'm just like still on this stuff.

01:23:05.060 And it just, it's opening you up to some, some really dark bondage.

01:23:09.340 You don't realize it, but I, I loved that stuff at one point, but then praise God, even

01:23:14.820 before I got saved, he had me get out of all of that as well.

01:23:17.580 I have an unfortunate number of friends who have suggested illicit drug use as a way to

01:23:23.300 be more spiritual and, you know, in touch with your real self and the universe and everything.

01:23:30.940 Did you see that?

01:23:32.620 Did you ever get into that, the psychedelics?

01:23:34.620 Did you see that?

01:23:35.740 Did, is there a connection?

01:23:36.680 I never did psychedelics, just the hard party drugs, apparently.

01:23:41.680 Just the fun ones.

01:23:42.320 Yeah, just the fun ones.

01:23:43.320 But I was very tempted to get into ayahuasca.

01:23:46.200 I had some friends that did that and because I was.

01:23:48.860 It's like, wait, I get to go to Mexico and vomit for a weekend?

01:23:51.340 Yeah, but.

01:23:51.960 What's the catch?

01:23:52.820 See dark beings that bring me into the clouds and I don't know.

01:23:56.100 But they, it was really, so I was part of the vegan community for a long time and I got

01:24:02.480 into raw veganism as well, which was kind of not eating any cooked food and I would go

01:24:07.820 to different potlucks and vegan events and there's, I was every type of vegan.

01:24:13.740 I was the angry protesting kind, but then I was also the super like hippie, crunchy girl

01:24:18.540 like into all that fun stuff, raising my vibration.

01:24:22.560 And a lot of people would be on psychedelics.

01:24:26.840 And that really was like, I don't want to be that.

01:24:29.780 It's like, I won't, hey man, I won't even cook my, my broccoli rabe because of the oils

01:24:36.340 and the toxins.

01:24:37.660 Hey, you want my bathtub acid?

01:24:39.480 Literally.

01:24:40.040 Hey man, let's.

01:24:41.740 Yeah, literally that was me as a vegan at one point.

01:24:44.200 Wow.

01:24:44.640 I got to like save the animals, but I'm going to do cocaine.

01:24:48.740 So yeah.

01:24:49.880 Wow.

01:24:50.320 It is so, it was just especially funny.

01:24:52.800 I need to triple filter my water and I can't ever have a hamburger, but I'm going to do

01:24:58.780 this, this tab of drug that was concocted in like a trap house.

01:25:05.540 Yeah.

01:25:05.900 Yeah.

01:25:06.060 Here's some gasoline and whatever.

01:25:07.900 God knows what.

01:25:08.720 And, but like, you're totally doing great by eating this thing of lettuce, but the cognitive

01:25:13.740 dissonance was very real with so many different things.

01:25:16.100 It's like, oh, I can't pray to God, but I can pray to the stars and I can't have this

01:25:20.900 burger, but I can have cocaine.

01:25:24.080 So explain that one.

01:25:25.940 I still haven't come up with an answer.

01:25:27.460 I've noticed that people who do a lot of cocaine often don't want to eat hamburgers.

01:25:31.640 Oh, really?

01:25:32.260 They don't because their appetite is suppressed.

01:25:33.780 Oh, thankfully it was only a handful of times, but I enjoyed it.

01:25:37.460 And I'm, and I thank God every day that all of that could have turned out so differently

01:25:42.000 for me.

01:25:42.660 Yeah.

01:25:43.300 And for, for some reason, by the grace of God, he just allowed it to not go any further

01:25:48.980 than it did.

01:25:49.720 And I'm just so thankful for that.

01:25:51.580 Another commonality I've found with all the new agey people and the political liberals,

01:25:56.300 I guess, just broadly, is they all in principle or in practice get into really weird sex stuff.

01:26:03.840 Have you noticed that?

01:26:05.260 Yes.

01:26:05.900 What's why?

01:26:06.480 What's that about?

01:26:07.400 I, well, I feel like maybe in more of the liberal ways of thinking is anything goes,

01:26:13.760 like whatever, man, nothing matters and just do what makes you feel good.

01:26:17.320 It's kind of fleshy hedonism, carnality.

01:26:20.900 New age, I feel like the more enlightened people get, the more they just, they fall in love with

01:26:27.940 people's souls or something like that.

01:26:29.720 And there's actually, I got into it for a hot second.

01:26:33.160 There's sexual magic where you can use a beautiful thing that God gave us to be shared with your

01:26:40.520 husband or wife to use that special feeling to manifest and create your own reality where

01:26:47.240 you visualize what you want when that feeling is happening and you envision it in a big light

01:26:54.400 tunnel going up to the universe.

01:26:55.660 And you basically use your sexual energy to use, to do magic. 0.62

01:27:00.140 So I've actually heard this phrase before.

01:27:02.660 I don't know anything about it, but I've heard this phrase, sex magic.

01:27:06.100 Okay.

01:27:06.860 That's what it is.

01:27:07.720 It's basically you just like think happy thoughts.

01:27:10.040 It could be other, it could be a lot of other, there's probably dark ways people do this and

01:27:14.640 whatnot, but that's what I learned and practiced at one point.

01:27:19.480 I know there's people that have done some really crazy stuff with, I don't even want to go,

01:27:24.600 it's very graphic, but there's, yeah, there's a lot of different things that I don't know

01:27:29.200 of.

01:27:29.580 I don't want to know them.

01:27:30.940 I don't know how to do it, but people, I think it's a special feeling.

01:27:36.020 There must be something with the energy that the enemy thinks can be powerful or he just

01:27:41.040 tries to mock us into using something very special that God gave us and to pervert it and

01:27:47.540 use it for nefarious reasons.

01:27:50.320 Yeah, and it is somewhat easily perverted.

01:27:52.640 You know, I guess part of it is, yes, liberalism says, you know, if it feels good, do it.

01:27:58.740 Yeah.

01:27:59.080 And the new agey stuff, you could see how that would get into the real weird sex stuff like

01:28:03.140 transgenderism because you say, well, your body has nothing to do and it's your true 1.00

01:28:07.600 self, whatever.

01:28:09.300 So, okay, yeah, I get how that could take you there, but also we're human beings and we're

01:28:14.940 sexual creatures and, you know, the distinction between men and women is the essential distinction

01:28:20.780 within human nature.

01:28:21.800 And so, sex, yeah, of course it matters.

01:28:24.280 You know, I always thought it was so crazy when the left would say, on the one hand, sexual

01:28:31.860 assault is this national epidemic and Harvard Yard is, you know, this hotbed of mass rape

01:28:38.040 and, you know, this was during all the kind of Title IX craziness.

01:28:41.360 And so, they'd be talking about how there's this epidemic of just constant sexual violence

01:28:46.120 and it was Me Too and all the rest.

01:28:48.100 Yeah.

01:28:48.540 And also, sex doesn't matter at all.

01:28:50.080 And it's like a totally casual act that doesn't matter.

01:28:52.220 And you say, well, if sex doesn't matter, then why is sexual assault worse than regular

01:28:55.700 assault?

01:28:56.480 Right.

01:28:56.860 Though their big thing, I think, consent, obviously.

01:28:59.680 Consent.

01:29:00.200 Okay.

01:29:00.320 But I don't consent to be assaulted with a punch to the face.

01:29:03.060 Right.

01:29:03.280 Why is sex assault so much worse than someone shoving me?

01:29:06.860 And we all agree it is.

01:29:08.420 It is, yeah, obviously, it is terrible and I think their ideology, the ideology that I

01:29:13.800 used to ascribe to is as long as, maybe I didn't partake, but it was more so as long

01:29:18.780 as people are consenting and of age and they're not an animal.

01:29:22.880 Yeah.

01:29:23.080 I guess, yeah, then people were, it's like, whatever, whatever you want to do, go for it.

01:29:26.600 And that's this kind of, if you read the word, you would know that that's outside of God's

01:29:32.320 beautiful design and especially with what Satan wants to do.

01:29:35.760 He wants to blur the lines of man and woman, of what marriage is, of what just, what good 0.99

01:29:41.980 and holy unions look like.

01:29:44.180 It's interesting too, even that phrase, such a stupid phrase, sex magic, because the most

01:29:48.260 truly magical aspect of sex is conception.

01:29:51.800 It's that you can make a person, like this thing that you do that you very much want

01:29:58.020 to do, when you do it, you can make a human being.

01:30:01.300 It's crazy.

01:30:01.960 Which is wild, you know, but that's the part of it where they would all say, no, that's

01:30:05.500 bad.

01:30:06.180 We got to kill that. 0.73

01:30:07.440 We got to avoid that.

01:30:09.160 Yeah.

01:30:09.480 Then you get into the, oh, it's so sad where I was vegan and pro-choice at one point.

01:30:15.000 Yeah.

01:30:15.360 Many such cases.

01:30:16.280 Yep.

01:30:16.560 Yep.

01:30:16.800 In fact, I would wager virtually all vegans support abortion.

01:30:22.980 Most.

01:30:23.440 I did meet some, just blanket pro-life, which was beautiful, and it convicted me at one

01:30:27.360 point.

01:30:27.600 I actually became pro-life before I got saved, just based on science alone and just watching

01:30:33.560 people debate.

01:30:34.380 I'm like, that makes so much sense.

01:30:36.000 Yeah, it's a baby.

01:30:36.820 How do I care about it?

01:30:37.520 How can I not?

01:30:38.260 How can I not?

01:30:39.060 Yeah.

01:30:39.340 Yeah.

01:30:39.900 And people think, I was just like, oh, just because you're Christian.

01:30:41.800 And like, no, actually, I started believing this way before God really showed me why

01:30:46.700 I believe this way.

01:30:47.980 You mentioned earlier you wanted to bring a feminine touch to ghost hunting because it 0.97

01:30:52.540 was a male-dominated field. 0.94

01:30:55.160 And I guess I know some woo-woo new age guys who are into this stuff, but it's mostly ladies. 1.00

01:31:00.960 Very much so.

01:31:01.660 It's a lot of chicks are into like the secret and all that stuff. 1.00

01:31:04.940 What is that dynamic like?

01:31:07.220 What's the, tell me about the men in all this weird, witchy, ghosty stuff.

01:31:13.360 So in the ghost hunting world, it's a lot of, I have a lot, there's a lot of great people

01:31:18.940 there.

01:31:19.180 So I don't want to like, I'm not making fun of anyone.

01:31:20.920 We love, listen, we love the Freemasons and Tony Robbins and the ghost hunters.

01:31:24.140 But, some of my best friends are ghost hunters.

01:31:26.360 Bye.

01:31:26.700 There you go.

01:31:27.780 No, but there's a lot of kind people, but it was a lot of just people at the time.

01:31:32.640 A lot of the men were designing equipment.

01:31:35.100 They were really focused on like the scientific aspect of it.

01:31:38.140 So the electromagnetic field readers, we call them K2 meters, all the different beep, beep,

01:31:44.960 boop, boop type scientific stuff.

01:31:46.660 This sounds like Scientology where they read your Thetan level.

01:31:49.240 Oh, right.

01:31:49.720 Is this real?

01:31:50.600 Like, is it real?

01:31:51.820 Maybe that's real.

01:31:52.560 I don't know.

01:31:52.600 I mean, like I would see something and then the scientific equipment would pick it up.

01:31:57.320 So the moment I was like, I just felt something touch my arm, then the electromagnetic field

01:32:01.720 reader would give me a reading or go up and make noises and whatever the thing was designed

01:32:06.180 to do.

01:32:07.000 So that was the thing that really kept me coming back is the evidence was there.

01:32:11.060 I was, the equipment was confirming what I was feeling.

01:32:14.460 And that's why I'm like, well, there, this has to, how can this not be real?

01:32:17.840 I'm seeing this.

01:32:19.000 I'm feeling it.

01:32:20.260 That's capturing it.

01:32:22.580 What else am I supposed to do?

01:32:24.260 But I didn't believe it.

01:32:24.820 And you don't think it's a natural phenomenon.

01:32:26.140 I think some things were.

01:32:27.960 That's why we would try to like, we would try to scan for where the plumbing equipment

01:32:32.380 was or if it went off, we'd like try to recreate things.

01:32:36.280 And you were, I guess, trying to test the spirits in our own way.

01:32:40.520 I guess because a spiritual thing, by definition, is not a corporeal thing.

01:32:46.920 So like a traditional understanding of an angel or a demon is that they're pure intellect,

01:32:51.560 not a body.

01:32:53.900 For animals, the lower beasts are just body and instinct and appetite.

01:32:59.620 Angels are pure intellect and will.

01:33:03.540 And we're this middle ground where we have the bodies.

01:33:07.060 We're bodies like animals, but we're intellect and will like angels.

01:33:09.940 And so we're in this really interesting middle ground.

01:33:12.740 And so you'd say, well, like a demon or a ghost, a ghost comes from a ghost, which is

01:33:18.260 a spirit that doesn't have a body.

01:33:20.940 But I guess upon further reflection, wouldn't you say, well, an important reality of our

01:33:27.700 faith is that there is in fact a connection between the spiritual and the physical.

01:33:33.460 This is essentially the definition of a sacrament and it reaches its apotheosis in the incarnation

01:33:39.300 when God becomes man.

01:33:41.760 So obviously there's a connection.

01:33:43.340 I'm actually not surprised that you say some spirit turns up a few beep boops on a recording

01:33:48.080 device.

01:33:48.460 Well, like we are literally made in his image.

01:33:50.520 So we are triune, just like him, soul, flesh, spirit.

01:33:55.600 Spirit is communing with God and the flesh is like we're still going to battle that every

01:33:59.660 day.

01:34:00.080 And there's a constant battle.

01:34:01.540 So we're kind of in touch with both the carnality of ourselves and the walking by the

01:34:06.100 spirit.

01:34:06.580 It's something I have to try to do every day.

01:34:08.980 It's very hard.

01:34:09.740 But thank God for his grace and his mercy and he helps us do that.

01:34:14.920 But yeah, definitely thought that being a medium, you were kind of the in-between for

01:34:21.180 the physical and the spiritual realm that, oh, I'm the medium that where they can communicate

01:34:25.920 through me and connect the two.

01:34:28.420 Now that you've come out of it, is there, what's your Christian view of these things?

01:34:35.280 Meaning, you know, we, are you like a C.S. Lewis kind of mere Christianity?

01:34:40.680 You believe in the Nicene Creed.

01:34:42.440 I believe in God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven.

01:34:44.160 That's a common sort of non-denominational, well, we're a mere Christian.

01:34:49.220 C.S. Lewis wrote a book about this.

01:34:50.500 And the Nicene Creed is this ancient Christian creed.

01:34:54.080 But there, you know, we recognize the communion of saints, the saints in heaven.

01:35:00.200 We recognize we're all part of the mystical body of Christ.

01:35:04.440 So there's this kind of connection there that we see references to the cloud of witnesses.

01:35:10.480 You know, we see in the book of the Apocalypse, which you were talking about earlier, the saints

01:35:14.400 are holding buckets of their prayers.

01:35:15.940 And so it's, and we believe that there are choirs of angels.

01:35:19.740 And we believe that, we believe in the archangel Gabriel and Michael.

01:35:23.500 And so we, it's this very full world.

01:35:29.040 Previously, that world, usually invisible to us, for you was populated by like yetis and tar monsters. 1.00

01:35:38.100 Now, is it that the world, that world has been demystified?

01:35:41.600 Or is it now full of the, of the real thing, you know, the angels and the saints and the

01:35:47.780 choirs and the celestial bodies?

01:35:50.820 It's kind of the veil has been lifted where it's that now I know the lens to view these

01:35:56.580 things and why God has told me to stay away from them.

01:36:01.240 That there's a reason for it, that it's so dangerous because we don't know what's out

01:36:07.100 there.

01:36:07.260 There's a whole spiritual realm.

01:36:08.460 There's a war happening in the spirit on our behalf that, and we also wrestle not against

01:36:14.320 flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities.

01:36:16.920 There's spirits.

01:36:17.700 The devil is prowling around like a lion waiting to devour us and look for weak links, people

01:36:23.060 that with open doors, the legal system in the spirit realm is so prevalent that you just,

01:36:28.780 they look for any crack, any open door, whether it's content you're watching and things you're

01:36:33.340 speaking and coming to agreement with.

01:36:35.140 When you say content, are you talking about the, the, this big problem, especially for

01:36:40.280 young men, which is porn?

01:36:41.700 Yeah.

01:36:42.160 But there's other content too that's bad for you.

01:36:43.700 There's other content.

01:36:44.960 Like even, are women watching these, these gossipy, catty shows? 0.97

01:36:49.480 Like gossip is also detestable, you know?

01:36:51.980 It's not just these major big things like, are you gossiping?

01:36:55.020 Are you jealous?

01:36:55.600 Are you in envy?

01:36:57.060 Like that's also a work of the flesh.

01:36:58.020 Or even, look, this is a little close to home for me because I host a political show, except

01:37:02.020 when I'm doing this one, but generally I do a daily political show.

01:37:05.280 And there is a real incentive to detraction toward, toward what St. Paul condemns as a

01:37:14.620 railing and reviling spirit.

01:37:16.340 And you see it, you see it on a lot of these shows and people are just railing, constantly

01:37:20.020 reviling, detracting, it's, and it's a temptation and it's a hazard in my line of work, but it's

01:37:28.380 very spiritually dangerous.

01:37:29.640 It is.

01:37:30.380 It is.

01:37:30.820 And it's, there's a reason why God tells us to guard our gates, our eyes, our ears, our

01:37:35.200 mouth, and to be very, I think, like I said earlier, like to live with the fruit of the

01:37:43.500 spirit.

01:37:44.180 You know, I desire to have the fruit of the spirit more than the gifts of the spirit where

01:37:48.380 I want to be walking in love and joy and patience and kindness and self-control.

01:37:54.740 You know, like there's, there's moments that I have not had self-control.

01:37:57.580 I still don't have it with certain ways I react, but like the Lord is so gracious and to remind

01:38:02.900 me, it's like, okay, maybe there's an obvious sin here with this person, but take the plank

01:38:08.180 out of your own eye and work on your own self-control.

01:38:10.420 And that's why the content we watch and all these things, there's, like I said, powers and

01:38:16.460 principalities are at work and they're here to keep you from coming to the truth that

01:38:22.700 Jesus is Lord.

01:38:23.820 He's here to save you.

01:38:25.040 And they want you operating outside of the will of God and they want you in bondage still.

01:38:32.440 So what's your message to the ghost hunters who are still going out there with the tape

01:38:37.060 recorders or whatever they have now, probably an iPhone now, or, or the young men and women

01:38:43.300 who want to talk to a ghost, want to do the Ouija thing, want to find a blue beak to alien

01:38:50.640 to have fruit loops with?

01:38:52.700 What's your message to them?

01:38:55.300 I understand the appeal, especially I haven't lost a parent, but I can understand wanting

01:39:01.200 to possibly try to make contact with somebody.

01:39:04.500 I know a lot of people are hurting and that's why they go to psychics, they go to mediums,

01:39:09.640 they, they go to these ghost hunts wanting to make just contact with other people they

01:39:14.340 know, or they're just wanting to, they're curious.

01:39:17.200 I know there's just a curiosity.

01:39:18.600 We are born with that curiosity.

01:39:20.680 It goes all the way back to the garden.

01:39:23.960 But Satan has come to deceive us.

01:39:26.140 He's masquerading himself as a being of light.

01:39:28.080 So he's going to trick you and he's going to come back as somebody that you know and

01:39:31.240 love and, or even somebody that you don't know and love, just people that are out there.

01:39:34.860 And I would just urge people to have such high discernment in this hour to stay away,

01:39:39.520 take no part in the evil deeds of darkness.

01:39:42.920 You don't, you want to separate yourself from this stuff and curiosity opens a door and

01:39:48.980 that's what led me down this thing.

01:39:50.420 I was curious and that curiosity, because I didn't turn around and stop it right then and

01:39:55.480 there. It led me down this destructive path into ghost hunting and it only left me demonized

01:40:01.340 and in bondage and in chains. And I would just urge people to please, please just stay away from

01:40:06.780 it. Don't watch the shows. Stop going on these ghost hunts. If you have the equipment, if you

01:40:11.260 have these occult objects, get rid of them and repent and turn to Jesus.

01:40:15.440 It's not that curiosity is awful in itself, but it has to be ordered by morality and charity and

01:40:24.060 ordered toward God. The minute it just becomes this idle little game, then, you know, curiosity

01:40:30.900 kills the cat. Do you remember that old show, the guy, John Edwards, not the presidential

01:40:37.340 candidate, Jonathan Edwards, the guy who- Oh, he's a psychic, the crowd of people.

01:40:41.600 He had the crowd. He did the crowd work and he told them that they were all talking to

01:40:44.620 their dead spouse or whatever and he preyed on these. Look, maybe he was doing it sincerely,

01:40:49.480 so I don't want to accuse him of something. But regardless, what he was doing is preying

01:40:53.880 on very grieving, damaged people to get ratings on TV. It was a dreadful, dreadful show. But

01:41:01.180 there was always a debate about it. Was he doing a cold reading and he was just putting

01:41:05.600 on a magic trick? Or was he doing something even darker?

01:41:10.260 Hmm. I think it could be so many different answers, especially nowadays where people have

01:41:15.280 the producers could probably look up information or credit card and they have your name and

01:41:19.860 stuff like that. But back in the day, I think it could be so many different things where

01:41:24.960 they're actually getting information. They have parlor tricks like, oh, I'm getting someone

01:41:30.060 with the name that starts with J. It's very easy.

01:41:32.340 I'm getting a B. My wife's name is Belinda. Yes, Belinda said, she misses you. Wow, that's

01:41:37.900 amazing. John?

01:41:39.180 Yeah, and I think people sometimes are very desperate to hear something and wanting to

01:41:42.940 make contact. I know people. I know people that are desperate and they're still stuck in

01:41:47.400 this and seeking to hear from people. And it's because we're just, like I said, it's the

01:41:52.940 curiosity, but it is what you do with that curiosity. Is that going to lead to an action?

01:41:57.680 Are you going to start looking things up? Are you going to start watching shows? And

01:42:00.300 that's to do with so many different things, not just the paranormal, but works of the

01:42:04.080 flesh and whatnot. But I would just urge people to have self-control, to stay away from this

01:42:10.200 stuff. Have no, take no part in the evil deeds of darkness and just focus on Jesus.

01:42:16.040 That's a good point. Because he, yeah, especially you, you greet, you go ghost hunting because

01:42:20.460 people die and that makes you sad. But there's only one way we know to overcome death.

01:42:27.140 There's only one example of it and it's not on the travel channel.

01:42:30.340 No.

01:42:30.880 Yeah.

01:42:31.180 No.

01:42:31.580 That's good. Thank you so much for coming on. Where can people follow your work?

01:42:35.000 They can find me on Instagram right now and hopefully a YouTube channel as well,

01:42:38.880 at Christina.Costanza.

01:42:41.020 Costanza's a good, strong Italian name. Christina, thank you so much for coming on.

01:42:44.100 Thank you for having me.

01:42:44.780 See you next time.

The Michael Knowles Show - August 23, 2025

Michael & The Ghost Hunter：＂We Recorded The Ghost Screaming＂｜ Kristina Costanza

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

The Michael Knowles Show - August 23, 2025

Michael & The Ghost Hunter： ＂We Recorded The Ghost Screaming＂ ｜ Kristina Costanza

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Michael & The Ghost Hunter：＂We Recorded The Ghost Screaming＂｜ Kristina Costanza