The Michael Knowles Show - Mummies and Abduction： Michael & The Rogue Archaeologist

00:00:00.000 I had this intuition. There's something under that pyramid in Peru. These three-fingered

00:00:09.440 tridactyl beings, the largest, most bizarre elongated skulls. Let me tell you the most

00:00:15.580 compelling thing, though. Two of the mummies are pregnant. Maybe there is a crypto-terrestrial,

00:00:22.300 non-human race, species, inhabiting planet Earth, probably subterranean.

00:00:27.760 It sounds crazy. It sounds absolutely crazy. Even according to the Smithsonian's own records,

00:00:34.180 there were the remains of people of unusually large stature were discovered.

00:00:39.320 What does it mean for us? What does it mean for everything from our human nature to

00:00:43.300 salvation history, if that actually happened? Well, those are the essential questions.

00:00:47.060 Three-fingered mummies, giants, and alien abductions. Three things I don't usually talk

00:01:01.200 about on the show, but I had a guest on. What, was it a month, two months ago? We talked about

00:01:06.800 all sorts of crazy, wild discoveries, insane conspiracy theories, some of which might be

00:01:14.960 proven true. And I said, I have to have this guest on again. That would be Mr. Timothy Albarino.

00:01:21.840 Mr. Albarino, thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me.

00:01:24.600 Last week, we left on a cliffhanger. I don't usually do repeat guests on this show. I've only done it if

00:01:30.420 there's a really intense controversy caused by it, or now in this case, because you left us all on a

00:01:36.300 cliffhanger. I think we weren't even talking about abductions or something like that. You said,

00:01:39.240 all right, well, anyway, I got to go to Peru to study mummies. I said, well, you got to come back

00:01:43.160 once you're back from Peru. You're back from Peru. I'm back. I have a barrage of questions for you,

00:01:48.560 and I also have a lot of cigars for us. Let's go. Can I offer you, I think we put a couple over there

00:01:54.080 by your table. This is how you begin a good conversation right here. I agree, especially because

00:01:59.300 you're talking about discoveries that pertain to megaliths, ancient structures, forgotten

00:02:04.160 civilizations. I have a discovery here for all of you. That would be the Mayflower Dream. This is

00:02:09.780 our third blend. We have the Mayflower Dawn. That's our morning cigar, the Mayflower Dusk. That's

00:02:14.160 evening cigar. This is the third and final piece of the blend, double Maduro, Pennsylvania Broadleaf

00:02:19.220 wrapper, Mexican San Andres binder, Nicaraguan long filler. I find it delightful. They're not available

00:02:24.580 yet publicly, so you're one of the first people to try it. Excellent. Well, I'm a big fan of this. Is this the

00:02:28.660 dawn here? That's the dawn. I've smoked probably 10 of these since I saw you last time. I'm glad to

00:02:33.300 hear it. Did you offer any to any of the aliens or the mummies? I did not. No. Okay.

00:02:39.960 Tell me about Peru. You went down there to study mummies, and the only mummy I can think of in Latin

00:02:46.140 America from some supposedly extraterrestrial being was that little paper mache thing that they told

00:02:51.200 us a while ago. It looked like a third grade art project of ET, and they said, this is a mummy of an

00:02:56.200 alien. I looked at it. I said, that's not even a good forgery of a mummy of an alien, so I had

00:03:00.480 absolutely no belief in this whatsoever. What'd you find? Okay. Well, this is a very long and

00:03:07.060 convoluted saga. These, uh... This is a long and convoluted show, so you've got plenty of time.

00:03:12.500 Perfect. Um, so we're talking about the Nazca Tridactyl beings. That's what they're officially

00:03:18.720 called. That's the ET mummy thing? Yeah. Okay. And technically, they're not actually mummies,

00:03:23.100 although everybody refers to them as mummies. I refer to them as mummies, because in reality,

00:03:27.480 they are desiccated corpses. Okay. It's a lot easier to say mummy than desiccated corpse. Yeah.

00:03:33.280 And desiccated corpses, that's... That just means that they're dried out. Yeah. And they have this

00:03:38.320 white, powdery substance on their skin, which is basically the residue of a fossilized algae. Okay.

00:03:44.980 And that contributed to the dehumidification of the body. So they're desiccated corpses.

00:03:52.780 And they were discovered about 10 years ago in 2015, in north of the city of Nazca. Okay.

00:03:59.940 In the general vicinity of the Nazca lines, the famous Nazca lines.

00:04:06.640 Uh, for those of us who are not as educated on the subject, what are those?

00:04:09.940 The Nazca lines are these geoglyphs that are carved into the soil of the desert

00:04:17.000 in the Nazca region. And there's different configurations of animals and very straight

00:04:23.300 lines that are carved for... They go for very... I don't know how long they are, some of these

00:04:28.360 straight lines, but they're very impressive. There's figures of people, humanoids, and there's

00:04:36.080 a bunch of different figures carved into the sand there. Nobody knows exactly who carved

00:04:40.880 them. And nobody knows why, because you can only see them from an aerial perspective.

00:04:46.640 So the big mystery is why would you do this? Why would you go through all this effort? And

00:04:51.120 how could you do this accurately without getting an aerial perspective?

00:04:54.480 What do you mean you could only see it for like, it's too big or it's...

00:04:57.520 Yeah. Well, the Nazca lines... So this is the desert and whoever created them could not have

00:05:02.560 had the proper perspective, an aerial perspective from the sky looking down.

00:05:07.200 Yeah.

00:05:07.760 Which clearly these things were carved for that perspective, looking down at them.

00:05:14.400 And so there's been a lot of conjecture over the years about aliens creating them and things

00:05:18.480 of this nature. I don't think that's the truth of the matter, but it's a mystery. And so now we have

00:05:24.480 an additional mystery to the Nazca desert with these three-fingered tridactyl beings, these desiccated

00:05:32.880 corpses. And again, these go back to about 2015. Now, if there was some design made, some work of art,

00:05:41.680 even if it were from the sky or something, is it possible that just as those were carved into the

00:05:48.160 ground or whatever, that these beings, what you're calling desiccated corpses, could... I was joking

00:05:53.840 about the papier-mâché art project, but could it be possible that they're just a work of art,

00:05:57.280 like a sculpture or something like that?

00:05:58.560 It's entirely possible. However, as I said earlier, this is a very convoluted subject. So

00:06:07.040 in 2015, these things originally came to light around that time and they were discovered by

00:06:17.760 waqueros by grave robbers. And the grave robbers, they revealed some of these desiccated corpses to

00:06:27.520 a French explorer, a colleague of mine in Peru, who I have been interfacing with about this.

00:06:33.680 And his name is Teri Yamin. And he has an organization called the Incari Institute,

00:06:40.640 which is based out of Cusco. And Teri is a remarkable explorer, actually. His objective,

00:06:49.520 the objective of the Incari Institute is to discover the lost city of Paititi,

00:06:54.960 which is a lost city of the Inca, a fabled lost city of the Inca.

00:06:58.720 We were going to honeymoon there, but we weren't able to get a ticket.

00:07:02.560 So this is their primary objective. And they've done a lot of work and made a lot of

00:07:08.800 phenomenal discoveries, the Incari Institute. So they were the first ones to receive, to see

00:07:15.360 these desiccated corpses. But again, the corpses were discovered by waqueros, by grave robbers,

00:07:23.120 somewhere in the region north of Nazca. So without getting into the weeds, basically what we're

00:07:27.680 looking at are, are a few different kinds of, we're going to call them mummies, even though

00:07:33.040 that's not technically accurate, a few different kinds of mummies. You have small mummies that are

00:07:38.480 about two feet long, and then you have larger mummies that are in the fetal position. And those are

00:07:44.400 four, four and a half feet tall, if you were to unravel them out of the fetal position. And

00:07:49.200 there's a lot of controversy surrounding this whole situation. This controversy involves

00:07:57.680 the Proving Congress, it involves the Ministry of Culture in Peru, the Incari Institute, the Mexican

00:08:05.760 ufologist Jaime Maussan. And it's become this, obviously this international story over the last 10 years.

00:08:13.120 And Jaime Maussan, and I think in 2003, he unveiled three of these, or two of these

00:08:20.480 diminutive mummies in the, in the Mexican Congress. And that created a firestorm of intrigue on social

00:08:30.480 media. Yeah. And so. That's when I became aware of it. Right, right. A lot of, I became aware of it,

00:08:35.840 actually. So I first became aware of these things sometime around 2016, when the Incari Institute

00:08:43.440 first published some material regarding them. And then I was in Peru on a project in 2018 and 2019.

00:08:51.120 And I was in the desert, not far from the deserts of Palpa around Nazca. I was actually over by Pisco

00:08:58.160 in Paracas. And it's basically the same swath of desert, right? But we're, that's north of Palpa

00:09:06.080 in Peru. This is one of the driest and most inhospitable places on the planet, by the way.

00:09:11.840 Yeah. I mean, it's, it would be very difficult for anyone to survive there today without modern

00:09:17.600 technology. It almost does not, there's almost no precipitation. And this is precisely why these

00:09:23.520 bodies are so well preserved. Yeah. And not just these bodies, not just the desiccated corpses,

00:09:28.960 but also other kinds of mummies, mummies from the Paracas culture, mummies from the Nazca culture,

00:09:33.600 desiccated corpses, are very well preserved out there in that environment. And I was working on a

00:09:39.440 project. We were actually looking for Inca treasure. And we were doing, we were on a film project,

00:09:46.240 me and my partner, Gary Haven. Gary Haven, by the way, the founder of Curves. Remember Curves?

00:09:49.920 Oh, yeah. And we were exploring this lake out there. It's, it's called Moron. And it's, it's,

00:10:00.480 it's this lagoon out in the desert. And there was legends of Inca treasure that the Inca had,

00:10:06.820 because they would dump treasure. They would, they would, you know, have a ritual ceremony and they

00:10:11.380 would offer treasure and into the bodies of water for, for various reasons. And so we're shooting this

00:10:17.920 film project, looking for Inca treasure and other kinds of treasure. And we're driving by this

00:10:23.560 pyramid every day, back and forth from the city of Pisco, actually all the way back to Paracas.

00:10:28.920 And I'm looking at this Adobe pyramid. Yeah. And one day as we're driving by it, I had this intuition,

00:10:36.760 there's something under that pyramid. Because oftentimes these ancient sites,

00:10:41.600 it's, it's, what's underneath them is actually more intriguing than what's, what's on the surface.

00:10:47.240 Right.

00:10:47.480 There's almost always, especially if it's a pyramid or megalith or something underneath it in almost

00:10:52.020 every case. And so we had a, we had procured a state-of-the-art ground penetrating aerial GPR unit.

00:11:00.980 And this is, this was only, there was only three of these units in the world at the time. And we had

00:11:08.020 one. So this is, it allows you to see underground basically?

00:11:11.960 That's right. But you can fly it. It's, you can, it's, it's operates off of a drone platform.

00:11:16.180 Okay.

00:11:16.740 And so this is new technology. Before you had to drag the GPR across the ground to get the readings.

00:11:22.420 Yeah.

00:11:22.560 Yeah. And it was very cumbersome, very laborious, slow process. Well, if you can fly the GPR,

00:11:30.260 then you, you can get a much more accurate reading and you can fly around on even terrain.

00:11:35.100 Yeah.

00:11:35.300 It just opens up a whole new, it opens up new possibilities for, for GPR work. And we have

00:11:42.260 this unit in Peru and we have a, with this GPR unit, we have a, a shallow penetrating radar and a

00:11:48.460 deep penetrating radar. The deep penetrating radar goes down 300 feet and that's used to detect large

00:11:55.720 structures and caverns. The shallow penetrating radar is, it's much more high resolution and it,

00:12:03.100 it goes down about 15 feet. I mean, we can see in the right conditions, we can see a corridor buried

00:12:07.720 15 feet under the ground. Wow.

00:12:09.940 In the right conditions. Those are perfect conditions.

00:12:12.120 Yeah.

00:12:12.340 Right. So I had this intuition that there's something under that pyramid. Now, this pyramid

00:12:17.980 is located on what's called the Chongos Necropolis. Okay.

00:12:21.560 And the Chongos Necropolis is out there in the middle of the desert. This was the seat of the

00:12:27.280 Paracas culture. And the Paracas culture is, I don't know if you've ever seen the Paracas

00:12:31.860 elongated skulls. Have you seen those? Maybe I actually have. I was ready to say no because

00:12:37.320 half the time you say, have you ever heard or ever seen? I say, I've never heard of that in my life,

00:12:40.560 but I think I might've seen the elongated skulls. Yeah. These are, um, they're, they're very famous at this

00:12:46.460 point. Uh, you can find them all over the internet, but the Paracas elongated, the Paracas people

00:12:50.160 were, were very, very mysterious culture. And this is going to tie in back to the three fingered

00:12:55.920 mummies. Eventually. Um, the Paracas were very, very enigmatic culture. Uh, and they were discovered

00:13:02.420 by a, the eminent, uh, Peruvian archeologist Julio Tejo back in the early 20th century. And there's a few

00:13:11.020 things about this culture that make that that's very strange. For one thing, they're very diminutive

00:13:15.060 people. They're very small and they have these accentuated craniums, these elongated skulls. Now,

00:13:23.000 some of these, the elongation of most of the skulls is the result of cranial deformation.

00:13:28.640 Yeah. That's what I assume. Which is a head binding and headboarding, cradle headboarding,

00:13:33.760 which means that they artificially elongate the skull. But we're convinced that some of the

00:13:40.700 elongation, these elongated skulls, some of that elongation is actually the result of a

00:13:44.600 genetic deviation or genetic anomaly in the human genome. Why do you think that? If some of them

00:13:50.500 are artificial, why wouldn't they all be artificial? Because the ones that are artificial,

00:13:54.720 the, the binding of the skull, cranial deformation is done all over the world in the ancient world as

00:13:59.540 an act of emulation. They're emulating something. Yeah. Yeah. And I think what they're emulating,

00:14:05.160 whatever it is that they're emulating has a naturally elongated skull. Okay. And the elongation of

00:14:10.220 the skull, again, you see it all over the world. The Egyptians, for example, some of the most famous

00:14:15.020 Egyptian pharaohs had elongated skulls or apparently had elongated skulls like, uh, Nefertiti's daughters.

00:14:21.940 But you wouldn't say like in China where they would bind feet, you wouldn't say that the bound feet

00:14:26.560 were emulating some genetic anomaly where a girl's foot was all messed up or would you?

00:14:31.580 Um, I'm not sure in that case, but the reason why I say with the elongated skulls, because again,

00:14:37.620 there, there are very important figures in ancient history who appear to have had elongated skulls,

00:14:42.880 like some of the Egyptian pharaohs, Akhenaten, for example. But is it, is there a chance that that

00:14:47.560 would be artificial? That Akhenaten's skull, they would have put some... Sure. There's a chance that

00:14:51.800 it was artificial. Sure. And, but in Caracas, when you have, um, I've examined these skulls up close.

00:14:58.260 And in fact, we did some genetic testing on them as well. And we got some intriguing results from

00:15:03.300 those, uh, from, from those tests, from the analysis. And when you, when you examine the

00:15:08.560 elongated skulls, the ones that are, that have cradle headboarding that you can see sometimes in

00:15:13.820 many cases, you can see the markings where they had the bands because those bands would be, would be

00:15:17.800 pretty tight around the head. And this is done from infancy. Yeah. Until a certain age. And then

00:15:22.960 they, the, once the, once the skull takes the desired shape, then they stop binding it and,

00:15:27.960 and, and, and, and cradle headboarding it. And you, you can tell, you can tell the difference,

00:15:32.920 but there are some skulls where there, there are no, there is no indication of cranial,

00:15:38.140 artificial cranial deformation. And these skulls happen to be the most accentuated elongated skulls,

00:15:44.940 the largest, most bizarre elongated skulls. Like for example, I'm trying to remember the name of the,

00:15:51.680 the name of the museum in Lima. There's a, one of the very first mummies, Paracas mummies that Julio

00:15:59.540 Tejo discovered is one of the most remarkable elongated skull mummies I've ever seen. And it is

00:16:05.620 freakish. I mean, when you walk up and look at this thing, it, you don't, you do not get the

00:16:11.320 impression that you're looking at a human being. Like this is not a member of Homo sapien sapien.

00:16:16.060 This is something else. This is some, like a subspecies of Homo sapien. And it is, it is, um,

00:16:22.080 there's pictures of it online. I don't even know how to reference it exactly, but I have a film that I,

00:16:26.160 that's, uh, that I made with Gary, but, uh, this thing is so bizarre. It's not just the

00:16:32.080 elongation of the skull. It's, it's, it's the, um, the configuration of the neck bone of the spinal

00:16:39.700 cord is it's, it's different. And there's a lot of things that, that there's a lot of anomalies.

00:16:44.200 Like these elongated, I didn't plan on talking about elongated skulls here, but, but the elongated

00:16:48.600 skulls of Paracus, they have more cranial capacity. In other words, their brains were

00:16:54.880 larger. It was like 30% more, 25 to 30% more cranial capacity inside of their craniums.

00:17:01.760 Okay. So that's not empty space. That's brain matter. Right. Their eyes are about, in many cases,

00:17:07.600 the, the orbital sockets are about 25% larger than a normal human being. So you have these,

00:17:15.580 not only do they have these elongated skulls, they have, they have extra large orbital sockets,

00:17:20.120 which amounts to extra large eyeballs. Yeah. And furthermore, we discovered that the Paracus

00:17:26.480 people, we didn't discover it, but we learned that the Paracus culture, they, for some reason,

00:17:31.720 were predisposed to live under the ground. They, this was a, and this is something that I, I read in

00:17:37.600 the work of Julio Tejo, an archeologist, Peruvian archeologist that I mentioned earlier. He remarked

00:17:42.440 in one of his, um, papers on the Paracus culture that this civilization had, had this tendency

00:17:49.280 to be, I think the way he described it was to, to be, um, a quasi subterranean, something like that.

00:17:57.920 Huh. So they were living under the ground. So you got these tiny people, humongous, elongated

00:18:02.600 skulls, gigantic eyeballs, living part of the time under the ground. Okay. That's the Paracus

00:18:09.360 people. So this, remember now going back to the, going back to the Changos pyramid in the Changos

00:18:16.080 necropolis, this was the, this was the hub of their civilization, or at least one of the primary hubs

00:18:21.160 of their civilization. It was a big city at one time. And so I had this intuition, there's something

00:18:28.000 under this pyramid and we flew our GPR unit around the pyramid. And sure enough, in fact,

00:18:33.320 specifically the intuition was there's a tunnel under that pyramid. We flew our GPR unit around

00:18:38.620 the pyramid. And what did we discover? Not one, two massive intersecting tunnels, a hundred feet

00:18:46.940 beneath that pyramid. And these tunnels are so big, you could drive a semi-truck through them

00:18:51.580 and they're artificial. Where do they go? Who knows? We just see them on the, on the, on the GPR

00:18:57.060 images. And by the way, we can render our images in 3d. So we're not just looking at squiggly lines.

00:19:02.540 We actually can get a 3d rendering of the image and, and on the computer, move around it right in

00:19:07.700 the 3d space. And these are massive tunnels just shooting out somewhere. Who knows where they go,

00:19:12.800 but somebody constructed them. I mean, this is in the middle of the desert. Can you,

00:19:16.560 could you follow them? Could you, could you fly the unit until the tunnel's in?

00:19:20.720 We tried to get into them, but the problem is on the, on the border of this property,

00:19:26.280 on the border of the necropolis, the necropolis is an archeological site. Yeah. And, and bordering

00:19:31.580 this archeological site, it's all private property. And so you can't, you can't, you can't really do

00:19:38.200 anything. You'd have to follow it for, for, you know, miles. Right. Who knows, who knows how long

00:19:42.440 would. And, and it might go deeper. Right. So, um, and we were, we were on a shooting schedule,

00:19:48.140 so we couldn't, we couldn't screw around too long trying to get in the tunnels, but we did,

00:19:51.280 we did, uh, try and find an entrance for a while. So, um, anyway, the, going back to the Nazca

00:19:59.960 Tridactyl. So, so Paracas is a little up north. It's, it's further up north on the Peru, on the

00:20:07.240 west coast of Peru in the desert. Nazca is further south in the desert. And the, the Paracas and the

00:20:15.160 Nazca people are very similar. Some people think that the Paracas, the, the, the Paracas, the

00:20:21.240 disappearance of the Paracas culture is a mystery. Yeah. Some archeologists think that the Paracas

00:20:25.440 people became the Nazca people. And others think that, that, um, maybe there was some sort of a

00:20:32.520 genocide or something like that, or they just died off. Um, but the Nazca and the Paracas, very similar

00:20:38.320 cultures. The Nazca practiced cradle headboarding, rather cranial deformation, cradle headboarding,

00:20:44.400 head binding, and so forth. And these three fingered Tridactyl beings have elongated skulls.

00:20:51.060 All of them have elongated skulls. Well, at least the majority of them that I've seen have

00:20:55.840 elongated skulls. Um, and so there's this, there's a strange, and, and they're elongated

00:21:02.360 skulls, by the way. It's, they've been tested. There's been CT scans done on these things. A

00:21:07.660 battery of scientific analyses have been done. CT scans, x-rays, uh, genetic analysis, dissections

00:21:13.800 by various teams from around the world on these mummies. And one thing, one of the things that,

00:21:19.340 that was determined definitively is that the elongation of the skulls is natural. There are

00:21:26.200 no indications of, uh, artificial cranial deformation. They're naturally elongated. So

00:21:32.780 you have these bizarre, you have these bizarre people inhabiting this region of Peru in between

00:21:41.180 one and, and, and 3000 years ago. You know, if you include the Nazi culture, going back to

00:21:45.980 the Paracas culture, uh, these, these, uh, and I should explain that. I think, I don't

00:21:51.900 know if I've said this already, but there's different variety of mummies. Some are two feet

00:21:56.540 tall. Yeah. Those are the ones that, that you're, you're referencing that look like dolls.

00:22:01.260 And then there's larger mummies that are in the fetal position. Yeah. And that's typical

00:22:07.020 of the Nazca culture and the Paracas culture that they would bury their dead in the fetal position

00:22:12.300 because death was like being rebirth. It was like a rebirth. So you're in the fetal position in the

00:22:17.760 womb. And when you die, they put you back in the fetal position and they bury you in that manner.

00:22:22.080 And that's how these things were discovered, the large ones. Okay. So I make a distinction

00:22:25.860 between the ones that, that look like dolls that, that, that look, look fake and, and the larger ones.

00:22:34.380 And I had the opportunity to go down to, um, to Ica. There are approximately 15 of these mummies

00:22:42.800 that have, that have been revealed publicly. I know that there are more because I've interfaced

00:22:47.940 with the people in Peru who are involved in this story. There's more, but, but publicly speaking,

00:22:52.400 there's 15. Some of them are the smaller variety. Some of them are the larger variety. Four of these

00:22:58.640 specimens, both of one large and then three small are in the possession of the university of Ica.

00:23:06.220 Okay. In, in, in Peru and Ica in the same desert region, as we've been talking about here.

00:23:11.700 And the professor who's ahead of the project studying them, his name is Dr. Roger Zuniga.

00:23:17.980 And he invited me to come down and analyze, examine the specimens that they have in the museum and then

00:23:24.180 interview him. And so last month I was down in Peru in, uh, Ica and I had the opportunity to see these

00:23:31.500 things up close and, and to, and to talk not only to Dr. Zuniga, but the other professors in, at the

00:23:39.660 university, at the university of Ica. And, and one thing I can tell you, I'm skeptical. Okay. Let me get that

00:23:47.000 out of the way right away. Okay. I'm skeptical. I lived in Peru for 10 years. There's a, there's a

00:23:52.380 black market for, uh, antiquities in South America, especially in Peru and Mexico. Okay. Those are,

00:23:58.920 are Peru and Mexico. I'm always skeptical. Anything that any alien artifacts or anomalous artifacts that

00:24:04.540 come out of Mexico and Peru, my default is, I don't believe it. Yeah. That's my default. And so I

00:24:10.420 refrained from commenting on these, uh, the, uh, the Tridactyl, the Nazca Tridactyl beings for,

00:24:16.380 for 10 years because I'm so skeptical and incredulous as it pertains to these kinds of

00:24:23.680 artifacts. I needed to go and see them for myself. Okay. And I needed to, to discuss them with the

00:24:32.360 professors and with, with the people involved in the story before I was willing to formulate an

00:24:37.140 opinion. So you're, you're skeptical for 10 years about these things. I've been skeptical since they

00:24:42.340 came to my attention. Are the three fingered weird looking mummies real? I don't know.

00:24:50.920 You're still hedging. So when I walked up to these specimens and remind me to tie in,

00:24:56.500 cause I didn't finish the story about the pyramid thing. Yeah. But, uh, when I walked up to this,

00:25:01.260 the specimens at the university of Ica, they have Maria, which is a large, one of the larger mummies.

00:25:06.900 Yeah. And then they have Wawita, which is like a very strange mummy with a, it's a, it's an infant

00:25:12.080 with a gigantic head and three fingers. They're all Tridactyl. They're all three fingered. And then

00:25:18.060 they have a couple of the smaller ones. When I walked up to these, they're all there, all four

00:25:23.140 of the specimens. I walked up to Maria first. And I have to tell you, you do get the impression when

00:25:32.140 you're, when you're up close to the larger mummies that these were living, breathing beings at one

00:25:38.380 time in the past. That, that is my sense. Now, am I willing to, to, to state definitively that I

00:25:48.020 believe that these things are authentic? No, but they are compelling. The large ones.

00:25:53.860 If I, if I put a gun to your head and said, you got to bet your life savings and your life,

00:25:57.500 in fact, real or fake, you would lean real. On the large ones. On the large ones. The small

00:26:05.140 ones are kind of a different story for me. The small ones that most people are familiar with

00:26:09.480 the small ones. Yeah. Those I think may be effigies of the large ones or, or fake. Yeah.

00:26:17.700 Um, they might all be fake. The, all of them may be hoaxes. If these things are hoaxes and

00:26:22.920 they're the, they're the most elaborate archeological hoaxes ever perpetrated. I mean,

00:26:28.480 they, they, and I'll, I'll, I'll tell you some reasons why, and I should probably finish what

00:26:34.700 I was saying about the pyramid. So we got time. I have more cigars. We got time. So, so let

00:26:39.160 me finish that. And then we'll, then we'll talk about some of the specifics of the mummies

00:26:42.200 that are the, the anomalies, the anatomical anomalies. I was talking about how I first

00:26:47.220 heard about the three fingered, the tridactyl beings of, of, uh, NASCA. That's why I went

00:26:53.540 into the story of the, of the Changos pyramid and, and took that circuitous route all the

00:26:58.740 way back. Um, I was, we were doing the GPR scans on the pyramid and I was standing next

00:27:05.140 to a, I had a, an archeologist on my team. He was a, he's a Spaniard working in Peru as an

00:27:10.400 archeologist. And we're standing there, scans going on and we're filming some stuff. And

00:27:17.300 he said to me, he said, Hey, you guys aren't talking about aliens. Are you in this film?

00:27:23.200 He said, cause I don't want to have anything to do with aliens. I don't want to have anything

00:27:26.900 to do with that topic. I'm like, no, no. And we weren't, we're not. Remember we were

00:27:30.020 shooting a treasure hunting show. And I said, no, no, we're not doing anything like that.

00:27:35.380 And then he proceeds to tell me why he doesn't want me to talk about aliens and he doesn't want

00:27:39.440 to be in a, in a, in a, in a film, um, with that sort of content. And he begins to tell

00:27:44.900 me about these three fingered tridactyl beings. And, and this was back in 2018, 2019. And he,

00:27:54.520 he, he unpacked this, this very interesting story, which I won't go into here.

00:28:01.020 Why not? It's an interesting story.

00:28:02.440 Well, it's, uh, it's very long and I don't recall all the details, but basically he was

00:28:10.840 involved early on with the mummies with Terry Jamin. He was on his team. He was part of the

00:28:15.240 Ankari team during this period of time when, when they were working with these mummies and

00:28:19.400 they still are to this day. And he was absolute, and this guy is very skeptical. Okay. This is

00:28:25.180 a very conventional archeologist. This is not like an ancient aliens guy. In fact, he wanted

00:28:29.280 nothing to do with that sort of thing. Right. For his reputation, for his career. Right. And

00:28:33.360 because of his experience with these mummies. Yeah. And he told me, he looked at me and he

00:28:38.400 said, those things are real. He said, he said, I, I, I, I know the story. I've been there since

00:28:48.840 the beginning and I'm telling you they're real. He said, we, we, we did the analysis on them,

00:28:54.280 DNA, they've been dissected. That's what I was going to ask. Couldn't you just test to see

00:28:58.300 if it's real DNA or carbon or whatever? They were tested. Okay. So that's how I really,

00:29:03.220 that's when I really became interested in the story was scanning this pyramid in, and then

00:29:07.640 in, uh, Changos. Now fast forward to my, my, my trip here recently in Peru, the DNA analysis

00:29:14.480 that's been done indicates, and this information is coming from Dr. Roger Zuniga, who's the head

00:29:21.600 of the project in Peru indicates that 30% of the DNA of, of the mummies is human. 70% is anomalous.

00:29:34.440 Also, there are some indications of chimpanzee and bonobo DNA. So right there, we have a problem.

00:29:42.940 And I, and I believe that's specifically in reference to the larger mummies. Yeah.

00:29:47.540 Right there, we have a problem because if, if you're hoaxing these things, if you are a

00:29:53.260 walk-in or a grave robber somewhere out there in the desert manufacturing these things, where

00:29:58.660 are you getting bonobo and chimpanzee components in Peru? There are no bonobos and chimpanzees

00:30:05.380 in Peru. Those are old world monkeys, apes. I mean, those, those, those are only in Africa.

00:30:12.040 They're not in Peru. Peru only has new world monkeys. So that right there is very intriguing.

00:30:19.480 These mummies. I thought you were going to say the problem is that, you know, if you get a,

00:30:24.560 a human and a chimpanzee in a room, even if you get them a lot of drinks and put on Barry

00:30:28.500 White, you're not going to make some other being. That's also a problem. Yeah. No, but from

00:30:34.260 the perspective of a hoaxer, why would you, why would you go through the trouble to acquire

00:30:40.160 bonobo and chimpanzee components? It doesn't make any sense. So that, that right there is

00:30:45.340 very, very interesting to me. The fingerprints on these things are horizontal. They have fingerprints

00:30:50.840 and they're horizontal. They're not circular like our fingerprints. Yeah. So they have very

00:30:57.540 bizarre anomalous fingerprints. But they have finger, just that alone is pretty weird.

00:31:02.200 Right. They have three long fingers and three long toes. They've been subjected to a battery of

00:31:08.960 tests. As I said, the CT scans and the X-rays, and they've been examined by highly credentialed

00:31:15.380 professionals like Dr. John McDowell from the United States, who's a celebrated forensic scientist here

00:31:23.440 in the United States. Oh, an award-winning forensic scientist has been involved in this story for a

00:31:28.020 couple of years now. And all of the scientists from the United States, from Mexico, from, there's been

00:31:34.140 a team from Japan who've come in and done research on these specimens over the last decade. All of them

00:31:41.060 have concluded, without exception, that the biological material, that these mummies are composed 100% of

00:31:52.500 biological material. In other words, there's no, there's nothing metallic besides the implants, which

00:31:58.420 we'll talk about in a minute. There's no, there's no wires. There's no synthetic glue. There's, there's,

00:32:03.840 there's no plastic. Because even when you say it's 30% human and 70% chimpanzee or whatever,

00:32:10.680 when I hear that, I say, okay, well, do you mean like you take one piece of the body and it's,

00:32:16.240 it's 30%, 70%? Or is it like, you know, three, two arms are human and one leg is chimpanzee and...

00:32:23.380 No, that's in regard to the, to the genome. To the actual genome. To the genome. 30% is human,

00:32:28.680 70% is anomalous. Now, now whether that means that 70% is non-human or, or with, or, or some of

00:32:36.740 that 70% simply can't be sequenced, I don't know. Okay. But Dr. Zuniga really reinforced that point

00:32:43.900 with me and, and, and told, and told me that, look, we've got 40% DNA commonality with a papaya.

00:32:50.400 Yeah. Okay. So we're, we're, we're more, we're, we're, we're closer to a papaya than we are to

00:32:55.780 these tridactyl beings. So they, they have the elongated skulls. They have the, they have

00:33:03.920 humongous eye sockets, you know, orbital, orbital sockets, really large eyes, larger than the paracus

00:33:10.020 skulls that we were talking about earlier. And, and everyone who's looked at them, all of the

00:33:17.840 scientific teams who've looked at them have not found any, this is what they're willing to say

00:33:22.280 at this point, by the way. Okay. So they're not willing to come out and say, these are real.

00:33:26.740 Okay. But what they're all saying and what they, and what they've been saying, all of the scientific

00:33:30.980 teams that, that have analyzed the bodies, they're all saying that, that we have not found any definitive

00:33:37.780 proof of a hoax. Okay. So that's where this stands scientifically. Okay. There is no proof of a

00:33:44.200 hoax yet. That's what I can say with confidence. Okay. Now McDowell and his team, they were working

00:33:50.500 with, with Jaime Massan, the, um, the Mexican journalist and ufologist. They're on his team

00:33:57.460 and they, they did not get access to the small bodies and nor are they very interested in the

00:34:02.260 small bodies. And I'm not very interested in the small ones either. I tend to think that those are

00:34:07.760 effigies of the larger ones, that those are in fact like dolls of some kind that were, that maybe

00:34:14.000 were buried with the large ones for some ritualistic purpose. I'm, but I'm very, very interested in the

00:34:20.780 larger. So, so then what are they? I don't know, but let, let, let me tell you the most, and then we

00:34:29.740 can move off this topic if you want. I want to move off this topic. It's very interesting. Let me tell you

00:34:33.260 the most compelling thing though. Yeah. Two of the mummies are pregnant. One of them, Montserrat,

00:34:41.360 it's, she's holding her, her womb. They didn't realize she was pregnant, but she's, but she's in

00:34:45.200 the fetal position and she's sort of covering her, her womb with her hands. And so someone suspected,

00:34:50.120 wait a minute, she might be pregnant. So they did the CT scan and they discovered she's pregnant

00:34:56.180 and the fetus in her womb looks just like them. Elongated skull, three fingers.

00:35:06.180 And two of them have fetuses. Now the smaller mummies, the two feet tall mummies, one of them at

00:35:14.600 least has what appears to be eggs. And there's been testing done on all of that. And it's been

00:35:21.460 determined that whatever those are, they're, it's biological material. So the, so now previously

00:35:28.860 it seemed like you were saying the small ones are fake, but that seems. I wouldn't say fake.

00:35:32.860 I wouldn't use the term fake. I would say that the, that the small ones are facsimiles of the

00:35:38.820 large ones, maybe effigies. And they put biological material, they put eggs in them? Yes, they would

00:35:43.120 have been, you know, these, I think these are legitimate ancient artifacts. At the very least,

00:35:47.620 these are ancient artifacts. Okay. Okay. I, I, now let me say that in 20, I believe in, in 2023,

00:35:55.320 there was an incident in the airport in Lima, which is the capital of Peru. Lima is the capital

00:36:03.560 city of Peru. And this, this got a lot of play on, on the, in the news, both in Peru and, and,

00:36:10.860 and worldwide. They intercepted a few of these, the smaller dolls in the airport. Somebody was

00:36:18.340 attempting to ship them via DHL, I think to Mexico. And they were intercepted by the Ministry of Culture

00:36:25.020 and, and they were dressed in traditional Andean garb. So they look like little dolls. Yeah. Yeah.

00:36:31.880 Right. But, but, but very similar to the, to the NASCA, uh, tridactyls. And the Ministry of Culture

00:36:39.260 actually dissected these things and determined very quickly that, that they're fake because they found,

00:36:46.860 they found synthetic components. Okay. The joints were being held together by some sort of a glue.

00:36:51.980 Yeah. Um, it was a composite of different animals. Yeah. Right. And so the Ministry of Culture came out

00:36:59.900 and declared, confidently declared, we've solved the mystery. We've proved that these things are

00:37:07.780 a hoax. Yeah. These are not, these were not living, breathing beings. These are composites of

00:37:13.540 different creatures. And I think that, you know, that the whole thing was very suspicious to me because

00:37:19.600 I think that the intention was, this is going to, this is going to put this whole thing to be once and

00:37:24.380 for all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The problem is that the individual who was trafficking these little

00:37:31.420 composite artifacts and he fabricated them, he admitted that he, he fabricated them. He admitted

00:37:39.640 that these, these have nothing to do with the other ones. I was just making facsimiles to sell abroad.

00:37:45.320 Right. Right. Right. So when that came to light, it became obvious that, that these are not the same

00:37:52.920 thing. Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is something different. And I mean, I, I, I wonder if, if that

00:37:59.960 whole situation was engineered. Right. By the Ministry of Culture in Peru to debunk the whole thing once

00:38:06.580 and for all, because the Ministry of Culture has tried to forcefully seize the four specimens that

00:38:14.340 are, that are being kept at the University of Ica six times. They've tried a forced entry into the

00:38:23.740 premises of the university to seize the mummies, to seize the specimens six times. And they've been denied

00:38:31.380 every time. They've been rebutted every time at the university. So the position of the Ministry and

00:38:37.140 Culture in Peru has been very hostile. Right. You know, at first it was just, oh, these are just, this is

00:38:42.260 just a hoax. And then after two or three hearings in the Peruvian Congress, and then one in Mexico, and all of

00:38:49.380 the international interest in these things, and all of the scientific testing that's been done on them, I think

00:38:55.220 the Ministry of Culture went, went into panic mode. Why, why do they want to shut down? Well, uh,

00:39:01.380 first of all, anything that, that goes contrary to the conventional narrative in Peru is, is, is taboo.

00:39:08.180 Okay. Much more even than, much more so even than, than in the United States. Right, right. I've,

00:39:13.140 I have some experience with the Ministry and Culture, of Culture in Peru, and they're, they toe the line,

00:39:18.020 and, and any, they don't like any narratives that are unconventional at all. Okay. Okay. And these are

00:39:24.260 certainly unconventional artifacts. And, um, at first, as I said, they, they just,

00:39:32.980 they didn't really pay too much attention. They just said, oh, these are obvious hoaxes. And then

00:39:38.100 they became quite hostile and attempted to seize the specimens by force. And that's never happened

00:39:45.140 before in Peru. Could they be, could the things be like, you know, a missing link, you know,

00:39:50.420 like archeologists or anthropologists, they find Lucy or something, some earlier hominid kind of

00:39:56.020 creature. What the Ankari team and the professors at the University of Ica told me is they believe that

00:40:02.500 these are hybridized beings. So the Ankari team believes that the smaller specimens, they call them

00:40:13.220 reptoids or reptilian because they, their, their, their skin is sort of like a reptile. They have,

00:40:18.500 they have some, um, some samples of the skin and it's very reptilian. They have eggs. Some of them

00:40:25.700 have eggs. So, so it's, it's like a reptile. And they think that this, that the, that the large ones,

00:40:32.580 the larger mummies are hybrids between the small ones and human beings. So you have the human species,

00:40:39.940 these, this, these reptilian things, and that somebody created a hybrid and that's what the

00:40:44.100 larger mummies are. Now, I don't know if that's true. I mean, I can't confirm or deny that,

00:40:48.260 that claim, but, um, that's what they believe. And the professors at the University of Ica are also

00:40:55.940 thinking along those lines. Every single professor that I spoke to at the university is 100% convinced

00:41:05.220 that all of the mummies are real. When I say real, they were living, breathing beings.

00:41:09.940 Right. Having said that, the, the American team that went down there,

00:41:18.180 they, as I said before, they're not very interested in the small ones. Yeah. And I,

00:41:24.020 they don't believe that the small ones were living, breathing beings. They think that those are

00:41:28.500 probably some sort of doll or, or as I said before, a facsimile of the larger one, something like that.

00:41:33.300 But they think that the bigger ones. The jury's out. The jury's out with the bigger ones. Again,

00:41:39.700 none of these scientific teams are willing to come out and say, these are real. What they're

00:41:43.460 willing to say is they're not, we have not yet discovered any proof of a hoax. So this raises

00:41:49.300 real questions about history, anthropology, even religion. So before we get to that, speaking of

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00:43:06.500 That was not only a magnificent segue into an ad, but also comes from the topic here because

00:43:14.020 here's my understanding of the history of human beings. However human beings came about,

00:43:19.060 I think we have to have a common ancestor. And this follows Pope Pius II, Humanae Generis.

00:43:25.300 We have to have a common ancestor. We have to literally descend from people that we call Adam

00:43:30.100 and Eve. Beyond that, I don't have particularly strong opinions. What does it mean if these be,

00:43:38.980 first of all, how does a human being mate with another being and create a hybrid? I didn't think

00:43:43.460 that was possible. And two, what does it mean for us? What does it mean for everything from our human

00:43:49.140 nature to salvation history if that actually happened? Well, those are the essential questions.

00:43:54.740 Assuming these things are real, let's just put aside the small ones for a moment. Let's just focus on the

00:43:59.220 larger ones. Like Maria, the one that I had the opportunity to examine. If Maria was, in fact,

00:44:08.260 a living, breathing being, if we assume that that was the case, then what we're looking at is a

00:44:18.100 non-human species that appears to have been hybridized with Homo sapiens.

00:44:23.700 So that would then indicate that there's another intelligence in the background who's doing the

00:44:29.300 hybridization. Or couldn't it just be a human gets frisky with something?

00:44:34.180 That's possible. Not to be too blunt about it. That's also possible. But the reason why I say

00:44:38.340 that and the reason why the Ankari Institute team and the professors in ICA are persuaded that,

00:44:44.020 or at least are open to the idea that we're looking at a process of hybridization or experimentation

00:44:50.420 and hybridization is because it looks like there were some failures.

00:44:55.620 Like the project was obviously not successful in some cases because you have

00:45:00.980 the different mummies display a variety of different anatomical anomalies.

00:45:06.580 And it looks like somebody was trying to perfect a hybrid.

00:45:09.620 And for example, the mummy that's designated huahuita, which means baby in Quechua,

00:45:20.820 at the University of ICA, it's a bizarre mummy. It's not one of the two feet one,

00:45:27.140 the two foot tall ones. It's rather, it's an infant of the larger ones.

00:45:32.500 Okay.

00:45:32.820 Okay. So it's got, it's tridactyl. It's got three fingers, three toes. The skeletal structure

00:45:38.500 of this infant is very, is very similar to the larger ones, but it has this humongous head.

00:45:45.140 Like babies. Babies have a giant head.

00:45:46.500 This one's even bigger. Yeah. This is, this is an unusually large head and it has some,

00:45:51.380 besides the three fingers, it has some very interesting deviations from the larger ones.

00:45:58.340 And there's a couple of other mummies that are like that with, with, with, with deviations,

00:46:02.740 right? So none of them are exactly the same. And so the idea is that the question is, could the,

00:46:08.820 could, are we looking at like an experiment in hybridization here?

00:46:14.100 So not just a, not just a random, you know, a human meets some other kind of being and

00:46:18.900 does something weird and you get this freak comes out of it. Yeah.

00:46:21.540 But that this was an intentional experiment to create another being. Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:29.380 Undertaken by humans or something else. That's the idea. Now, um, I'm not sure I believe,

00:46:35.380 I believe that personally, but that's, that's what was communicated to me. But could it be,

00:46:39.060 you know, I remember that's a hypothesis. I read some pop science bit about how

00:46:43.620 sub-Saharan Africans don't have any Neanderthal DNA. Non-sub-Saharan Africans, everybody else,

00:46:49.140 just about does have some Neanderthal DNA, which suggests some interbreeding many moons ago

00:46:55.620 between Homo sapiens and Neanderthals, but not in sub-Saharan Africa. Could it just be

00:47:03.940 something like that? Why would it have to be intentional hybridization?

00:47:06.980 It doesn't have to be. That's just one of the hypotheses. Okay. The other, the other hypothesis,

00:47:13.540 the one that I was originally inclined to, to favor and probably still do, assuming these are real,

00:47:19.140 yeah, is what, what you said before. Maybe there is a crypto terrestrial non-human

00:47:28.180 race species inhabiting planet earth, probably subterranean, that interbred with either the

00:47:36.260 Paracas or Nazca peoples in Peru. By the way, these, these mummies were, they tested them for, um,

00:47:46.020 carbon-14 to get the date and they're approximately between 1,000 and 1,500 years old.

00:47:56.340 So that corresponds to the Nazca culture and the end of the Paracas culture. So, um,

00:48:02.740 were these, was there some sort of a contemporary non-human species inhabiting the deserts of Peru?

00:48:08.180 It might not have been desert by back then either, by the way. Right.

00:48:11.460 But was there a non-human species that was contemporaneous with, let's say, the Nazca culture

00:48:17.300 interbreeding with them? Is this where the elongated skull feature comes from on some of the Nazca,

00:48:23.780 the ones that aren't the result of cranial deformation? Again, presuming that there are some

00:48:28.900 skulls that, that are natural. Well, and if you're talking about

00:48:32.340 1,500 years ago, I mean, when, when we think of finding these weird middle stage kind of non-human

00:48:40.420 creatures, we're talking much, much further back than that. 1,500 years ago, you, you have the fall

00:48:46.340 of the Roman Empire, the rise of scholasticism. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're, you're, you're right. You're,

00:48:53.300 they go back to like the first century AD, basically, um, in that time period. And then, and then,

00:49:00.340 you know, uh, like I said, 1,000 to 1,500 years. You're, you're suggesting that, that after

00:49:05.380 St. Augustine wrote his confessions, there could have been a non-human, hominid-like,

00:49:12.740 intelligent creature breeding with humans in the new world, which at that point was untouched by the

00:49:17.220 old world. That's a hypothesis. I'm not willing to commit to that. I'm not willing to make that

00:49:22.100 declaration here on your show, but that's a hypothesis. Yeah. That, that there's a subterranean

00:49:27.780 cryptoterrestrial species with elongated skulls, three fingers, overly large orbital sockets,

00:49:35.620 different kind of brain on, and only 30%, uh, 30% similarity to, to human, to the human genome.

00:49:42.980 In other words, this is a subspecies of homo sapien, not even a subspecies, rather, this is a

00:49:47.620 completely different species from homo sapien. But what, assuming again, we're, we're, we're,

00:49:53.780 we're playing with the idea that these are real. But how do you only get to, how do you only get to

00:49:56.340 30%? Meaning, wouldn't it, I'm no biologist, but it seems to me if you bred two different species

00:50:02.660 together and created a hybrid, it'd be 50-50. So how do you get to 30? Is it that you create the

00:50:07.540 hybrid species and then you, you breed the hybrid with another one of the first species? And how do

00:50:12.900 you do it? I don't know what the percentage of DNA is when you have, let's say, two different species

00:50:19.620 that are, they're different species, but they're, they're reproductively compatible. When they

00:50:24.500 copulate and produce offspring, I mean, I'm not sure what the ratio of DNA, how much it would,

00:50:29.140 would it be a 50-50 split or does it vary? I don't know. I always thought it would be,

00:50:33.220 but then I look at my eldest son who looks exactly like my wife. I don't think I contributed any DNA

00:50:37.220 to it at all. Exactly, right, exactly. To him, rather, not it. So I'm not sure how that works. I'm not

00:50:41.300 a geneticist, but, but, um, anything's possible. If we're, if we're, if this is true,

00:50:46.180 and we're talking about a non-human species, co, cohabiting the earth contemporaneously with

00:50:52.420 these ancient cultures, you know, this, of course, this is, this is not new, this idea

00:51:00.820 of, of non-human entities, subterranean co-inhabiting the earth with us. The Nazis believed this.

00:51:08.260 The Nazis believed, at least some of the Nazis believed in the Vril. In fact, they had a Vril society.

00:51:13.860 This was a- And they did go to Latin America when they were trying to flee from the allies,

00:51:17.060 those Nazis. They did. They did. Wait, what are the Vril? I'm not, I'm not as up to date,

00:51:20.820 even though these days, if you're on Twitter, it's basically all Nazis, but I'm not as up to

00:51:24.420 date on Nazi esotericism. What are the, what are the Vril? Well, the Nazis, there was a book,

00:51:30.740 I'm trying to remember the name. I believe it's called, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong. No,

00:51:35.540 no, no. I believe it's called The Coming Race by Edward Lytton Bullen. I think I probably got that

00:51:43.380 wrong. So I haven't read it. I did read it a long time ago. I read it, you know, 10 years ago. I can't

00:51:48.180 remember exactly the title. And, but, um, he, he wrote a fictional story, right? But, but he didn't

00:51:57.060 come out and say it was fiction. A lot of people think he was, the Nazis certainly believed, um, that it

00:52:02.660 was a true story, that it was nonfiction in which he recounts the journey of this, of an individual

00:52:09.540 who somehow, I don't remember the details, somehow made it to like this underground civilization,

00:52:13.940 made his way underground and discovered this intelligent, these intelligent non-human beings

00:52:18.360 inhabiting the bowels of the earth. And, and he called them the Vril. And based on this story,

00:52:24.580 you, you had the development of the Vril society, which was an occult society. And you, you had the,

00:52:32.400 these women who styled themselves as the Vril maidens and they had very long hair and they

00:52:38.560 were part of this occult society and they were mediums. And, um, and the Vril society was,

00:52:48.320 was instrumental in the early days of the Nazi party. I did know they were into really weird

00:52:53.760 occult stuff. And I was speaking recently to a priest who said, you know, it's not, it used to be 20 years

00:52:59.600 ago. The, the big task of an evangelist was to convince people not to be atheists. They said,

00:53:04.960 no, no one's atheist. Atheism is passe and cringe and lame. He said, now the challenge is to convince

00:53:10.480 them not to go into the occult. It's as if the occult a hundred years later, it's made a big comeback.

00:53:14.080 That's a really good point. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a really good point. Uh, and I, I think I would

00:53:18.320 agree with that. Yeah. But, but the Nazis, the Vril society believed that the Vril were real

00:53:26.080 and they went looking for them and they wanted to make contact with them. And, um, and there's a lot

00:53:32.000 that can be said there. That's sort of a, that's a big, uh, uh, diversion from, um, what we've been

00:53:38.160 talking about. Well, because, you know, you left us on a cliffhanger last time about aliens and

00:53:43.280 abductions and that kind of stuff, but now I'm thinking, well, maybe you don't look up into the

00:53:46.240 sky and maybe that's all fake news. And, uh, the real weird conspiracy theories, no, you look down

00:53:51.600 into the earth. That's where the abductions are coming from. That's called the crypto terrestrial

00:53:55.040 hypothesis. I've stumbled onto it. Yeah. Unknowingly. You did. Yeah. So the crypto terrestrial

00:53:59.760 hypothesis posits that, that there are intelligent non-human beings who have been co-inhabiting

00:54:07.040 planet earth, albeit covertly with the human species for thousands of forever, forever. Maybe,

00:54:14.720 maybe they were here before us, right? Maybe they're indigenous to planet earth, or maybe they

00:54:18.560 came from somewhere else and established a civilization. And there's various, um, branches of

00:54:24.480 this hypothesis. Um, some people believe that, or some people have theorized that, that there's

00:54:32.000 an antediluvian race still alive that, that survived the cataclysm, but now they're, they're living in a

00:54:38.640 civilization under the ground or something like this. This is called the crypto terrestrial hypothesis.

00:54:42.640 Wouldn't, wouldn't that though contradict salvation history? If, if, isn't the idea of the flood,

00:54:49.440 that it just wipes out everything except for that, which was saved on Noah's ark, which in your line

00:54:55.120 of work, I recently read an article about how they think they found Noah's ark in Turkey or something.

00:54:58.960 Yeah. But I, I don't know anything about that. I don't really know much about any of this.

00:55:02.400 Well, this, okay. So there are a few different perspectives on the flood of Noah. Okay. So the,

00:55:09.840 the, the, the most common perspective in the fundamentalist perspective is that the flood,

00:55:15.520 and, and by the way, let me preface this by saying all three of these perspectives come

00:55:19.760 from using the same, a breakdown of the same terminology. In other words, from the text.

00:55:24.720 Yeah. These, all three of these hypotheses come from the, the, the wording and the text,

00:55:29.840 and you can make a case for all three based on the text, right? So, uh, the first of course is the

00:55:35.760 universal flood that, that the, the, the, the flood of Noah covered every square inch of ground on

00:55:41.520 planet earth that Mount Everest, that Mount Everest was underwater. Yeah. Okay. That's the most common

00:55:48.560 understanding and the, uh, the most widespread conventional position of most Christians.

00:55:58.480 Yeah. Okay. Uh, so I would call that the global flood theory. Yeah. The, the second is what's called

00:56:07.280 the local flood theory. And this theory posits that indeed there was a catastrophic flood, but it was

00:56:16.240 limited in scope. It was geographically limited to Mesopotamia, the Levant and, and the civilizations

00:56:27.040 in the Levant were absolutely destroyed, devastated. So to, if you were living, if you were a person living

00:56:32.800 in the ancient Near East at that time, the, your entire world, the entire known world is inundated.

00:56:38.800 Let's say that the, the, the, the Mediterranean area, totally inundated and all the civilizations

00:56:44.160 in the Mediterranean are wiped out or utterly destroyed. Well, but maybe the rest of the earth

00:56:49.840 wasn't affected in the same way. That's the local flood theory. And there are a lot of scholars,

00:56:54.240 good scholars, like the late Michael Heiser, who subscribed to a local flood theory, um, and using,

00:57:00.720 using again, just based on the text, not reading anything into the text, just based on the text

00:57:06.960 of scripture. And those are in some sense, competing theories. Um, and then there's a hypothesis that I

00:57:17.320 subscribed to, and maybe I invented that I call the global cataclysm hypothesis. So rather than it just

00:57:25.620 being a localized flood in the ancient Near East and in the, in the, maybe in the Mediterranean area,

00:57:32.500 um, the entire earth was subjective, was subjected to a devastating cataclysm and that everywhere on

00:57:41.860 earth was affected by the cataclysm, but differently depending on where you lived. So you, if you lived

00:57:48.340 maybe in the Mediterranean, you would have experienced catastrophic flooding. It would have been an aqueous

00:57:53.940 cataclysm. But if you lived in a different part of the earth, you might've experienced some other

00:57:58.180 kind of, of effect from, from this cataclysm, like a vault, extreme volcanism, earthquakes. Um,

00:58:06.820 and you, and, and this basically there, there's a couple of different scenarios that, that we can

00:58:13.700 think about that may have precipitated the, the great flood. In other words, what was the cause of the flood?

00:58:22.100 I mean, you read the Bible, there was, it rained a lot, but I think it's much more complicated than

00:58:26.820 that. I actually subscribe to the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis and the Younger Dryas impact

00:58:34.980 hypothesis posits that sometime around 12,000 years ago, sometime around 10,000 BC in the neighborhood,

00:58:42.020 let's say of 10 or 11,000 BC. There was an, a, some sort of a cosmic body, an asteroid or fragments

00:58:52.420 of an asteroid that, that collided with planet earth during the, the ice age, the last ice age,

00:59:00.500 the end of the last ice age and probably bombarded the, what the, the North American ice sheet,

00:59:08.260 specifically the Laurentide ice sheet, which covered much of North America. We're talking

00:59:12.660 about a mile to two mile deep sheets of ice and that, that, that event, that impact event is what

00:59:22.500 catalyzed the great cataclysm that all the ancients talk about, including the biblical writers.

00:59:30.260 And, and, and if you read the, the, the universal testimony of our ancient and descendants,

00:59:36.100 all of the primary cultures around the world, they all have flood myths. Now, most of them have

00:59:41.300 specifically flood myths. Yeah. All of them have cataclysm myths because you do find some variation.

00:59:49.700 Some of the cultures, rather than describing catastrophic flooding, they'll describe black

00:59:54.820 rain and earthquakes and, and extreme volcanism. And it's, so there's some variation, but the, the general

01:00:03.220 testimony of our antecedents is that there was some cataclysmic event that rocked the earth

01:00:11.140 in the distant past and brought to ruin the remarkable civilization that inhabited the earth

01:00:18.180 in the antediluvian world. And this, this is, this is, you know, the, the, certainly the, the ancient

01:00:24.500 near Eastern cultures believe this. Yeah. The ancient Greeks believe this ancient, the Romans believe

01:00:28.980 this. Um, you find these myths among the native Americans in North America, everywhere. The, the ancient

01:00:34.500 Chinese, everybody has cataclysm myths. So I, I believe that there was an impact and there's been

01:00:45.220 a lot of study done, uh, on this hypothesis. I didn't invent it. It's called the Younger Dryas Impact

01:00:50.500 Hypothesis. And I think there's a lot of evidence and the evidence is mounting that in fact, the earth

01:00:56.340 was bombarded at the last, the end of the last ice age by some sort of cosmic body or bodies like

01:01:02.100 that, that, that, that, uh, collided probably, um, with the ice sheets. But in the, in the Christian

01:01:10.500 understanding of it, doesn't everybody have to die? Isn't it that the whole earth is so corrupted

01:01:15.860 that God sends the flood and there's only one good guy, Noah, and he brings his family and two of

01:01:21.460 each animal onto the ark and then everyone else dies. Crucially, everyone else is gone so that

01:01:26.900 every, every one and everything that descends, that is existent today comes from that which was

01:01:34.180 saved on Noah's ark as a figure of the salvation of Christ. Is, is your theory, however, however it,

01:01:40.020 uh, comes about, whether it's a meteor or whatever, an asteroid or something, uh, could certain things

01:01:46.340 have survived? Yes. Okay. Yeah. And again, you know, there's a, I'm sure there's a lot of Christians

01:01:53.300 listening to this who are going to protest because doesn't the Bible say X, Y, Z? Well, let me remind,

01:01:59.620 remind everyone that there is a very strong case to be made, at least for the local flood, using the

01:02:05.060 text. Okay. Many scholars do. So it's not as cut and dry as a lot of people think it is. Um,

01:02:11.700 I'm open to all, I'm open to all three of the scenarios. I mean, I, I, as I said, I do subscribe

01:02:16.980 to the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis. We do know that that impact led to the extermination of the

01:02:23.220 megafauna, that, that megafaunal extinction event that was, that did happen at the end of the Younger

01:02:29.300 Dryas. And, and those animals went extinct overnight. What are those animals? Well, you're talking about

01:02:37.700 the mammoths, mastodons, the giant sloths, the saber tooth tigers, the, the, the short faced bears,

01:02:44.660 uh, all of those magnificent megafaunal creatures that roam the earth. They disappeared overnight,

01:02:53.060 basically. I mean, we have, um, we've, we've, we've discovered mammoths or mastodons, uh, in various

01:03:02.180 parts of the earth that are very well preserved. I know we've some, some have come from Siberia,

01:03:06.420 some have come from North America, uh, in which it's apparent that these things died suddenly,

01:03:13.300 like they were flash frozen. Yeah. Yeah. They're chewing food. Like they got the COVID shot. No,

01:03:18.660 I'm joking. I'm joking. YouTube, I'm joking. But something happened and they all died. Right. Right.

01:03:23.540 Like instant death. And, and it looks like some of them were, were, were flash frozen and they're,

01:03:29.460 they're, they're eating, they're chewing on food. They have food in their stomachs. That's not, uh,

01:03:33.540 yet, uh, digested, fermented and so forth. And, um, so something catastrophic obviously happened.

01:03:42.900 And I think that something catastrophic is, is, is precisely what's, what's documented in the,

01:03:48.980 in the pages of, of the Hebrew Bible. Okay. So then I want to fast forward.

01:03:53.620 Maybe there are these weird things living underground. Maybe there are some people,

01:04:00.900 I don't really buy it, believe in aliens or anything, but some people believe there are

01:04:03.860 weird things flying around the sky. Some people, I don't know how to say come from under the ocean

01:04:07.140 or something like that. But there are people who claim to have had contact with these things today,

01:04:12.820 not in 500 AD, not 10,000 BC today. Which things? Aliens. Okay.

01:04:20.500 Or I don't know, weird three fingered Peruvian long heads, or I don't know what they, I think

01:04:25.220 it's like hallucinations or demons or something. But do you believe in those things? Do you, do you

01:04:30.660 believe the accounts of people who say they've encountered them? Do you think the, the people

01:04:34.900 who say they've encountered them are being sincere, but they're just deluded? And if the, if those are

01:04:40.500 real interactions, are they, are they weird three fingered Peruvians or are they aliens?

01:04:44.740 What specifically are we talking about? Are we talking about alien abduction or are we talking

01:04:49.540 about people who have encountered UFOs? Let's start with abduction, but then broaden

01:04:54.340 it to people who say they've encountered UFOs. Okay. So were you SOs? I even, I was talking to a guy

01:04:58.180 who's a, I'm not going to say he's a totally balanced guy, but he's pretty, he's a pretty sober

01:05:03.060 minded guy who says that he was underwater once. He was a diver and he saw an unidentified submerged

01:05:09.860 object that was moving much faster than any technology that he was aware of, a government

01:05:15.300 or private. And he couldn't, way deeper, couldn't explain it, looked like a light, didn't look like

01:05:19.460 a bioluminescent. And so anyway, I've heard these accounts, even from people who seem at least

01:05:23.860 relatively sane. What's your take? Okay. Um, if we, let's start with the UFOs, um, and then work into

01:05:32.260 the abductions. Cause I think we can say definitively at this point, and I think I said this last time I was on

01:05:39.220 your program. You said you saw one. Yes, I did. And that, that UFOs are a reality now, concrete

01:05:46.100 reality. They're not a figment of people's imaginations and, and there, there definitely

01:05:54.180 are advanced aerial vehicles. Yes. That are inexplicable. Yes. In regard to their capabilities.

01:06:03.300 I, I agree. Even in my deep skepticism, all this, I agree. All that's true. Where people lose me is

01:06:09.700 they say that a little green or gray man took me up on a spaceship and started probing areas that

01:06:15.860 I used to only reserve for the three-fingled Peruvians and the bonobos. Okay. Well, so early on in, in

01:06:24.420 ufology and ufology is just UFO research. Yeah. Everyone was fixated on the UFOs. Yeah. The lights

01:06:36.420 in the sky, the, the objects that dart around in the sky and perform these extraordinary aerial

01:06:42.180 maneuvers. And, and, and we need to, I mean, we're talking about maneuvers that are impossible. Yeah.

01:06:48.100 According to our current understanding of physics, you know, right angle turns at thousands of miles an

01:06:54.180 hour, for example. Yeah. Um, and those objects we now know because back then, let's say 10 years ago

01:07:05.140 and, and 10 years and beyond, there was a UFO controversy. Are UFOs real? Do these things exist

01:07:15.940 or are all of the, the alleged sightings? Hallucinations. Hallucinations, or do they all

01:07:20.660 have mundane explanations? That was the controversy? Yeah. Today in 2025, the controversy is over. Yeah.

01:07:30.980 There is no controversy anymore. UFOs are real. This technology exists. Advanced aerial vehicles

01:07:42.260 definitely are flying in our airspace. And in many cases are restricted airspace. Yes.

01:07:46.820 The government has admitted as much. Yeah. The Pentagon has admitted, has admitted as much.

01:07:54.180 And we've had whistleblowers come forth who have claimed firsthand knowledge of what's called the

01:07:59.540 legacy program. Yes. And the legacy program is the project, the program of, of recovery of these craft,

01:08:07.860 the ones that crash and, and the reverse engineering of the technology. And they've even said in congressional

01:08:13.540 testimony, these craft have biologics. There's right. You know, the recovery of the pilots,

01:08:19.540 the non-human pilots. Yes. This was the testimony of, of David Grush. Yes. Who worked in the intelligence

01:08:25.540 community and was actually tasked to study UAP officially for the government. And he came up,

01:08:31.540 he ran up against a program that he was not allowed to be read into. Yes. And this was the legacy program.

01:08:38.980 So this guy, this guy says, I've encountered these beings, but they're dead and they were in some

01:08:46.420 aircraft and whether you believe it or not. Okay. Has, has anyone who says they've seen the things alive,

01:08:53.620 are they just total nutters as I kind of think they are, or spiritually darkened as I think they are,

01:08:58.980 or, or, or have people met these entities? So I think we can confirm at this point that the

01:09:08.820 phenomenon is real. Okay. Advanced aerospace vehicles exist. Yep. Okay. And I think I am a hundred

01:09:15.620 percent confident that some of this technology is non-human in origin. Okay. Okay. Now transitioning

01:09:23.460 over to people who've actually encountered the entities, because this is where it gets very

01:09:27.300 interesting to me. Yeah. Lights in the sky is one thing. Yeah. Seeing a cigar shaped craft or a

01:09:33.060 tic-tac shaped object zipping around in the sky. That's one thing. Cigar shaped anything interests me.

01:09:37.620 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We're very much interested in cigar shaped anything. So that's one thing,

01:09:43.140 but I've, I'm much more interested in what's piloting the craft. Yes. Okay. And

01:09:50.180 the only insight besides the people who are working inside of the legacy program who have actually had

01:09:58.020 hands on the craft and the bodies, but that's so far, we haven't had any, anyone come forth in an

01:10:06.260 official capacity at a hearing, raising their hand and swearing under oath that they were inside the

01:10:11.460 program and have held the bodies or, or have handled the materials or anything like that. We've had

01:10:16.980 people like Grush who he he's come up against the program. He was made aware of the program,

01:10:22.980 but could not penetrate it. Right. So the only insight that we have

01:10:30.900 into the craft are the, the, the abductees and the alien abduction phenomenon really began to come to

01:10:38.820 light in the eighties. Yeah. It goes back before that. In fact, I think it goes back to the late 19th

01:10:45.380 century and, but it, it, it, it came to light in the eighties primarily. I mean, you had the, the,

01:10:51.780 the Barney and Betty Hill affair, which happened in the sixties and a couple of other cases with,

01:10:56.580 with, um, Barney and Betty Hill were, were kind of the most famous abduction incident. This was back

01:11:03.860 in the sixties. I think it was 1961 and they had an abduction experience that was publicized. And this

01:11:11.220 was one of the first times, not the very first case, but one of the first cases that, that, that was

01:11:16.340 actually publicized regarding alien abduction. And they were an interracial couple and they, they had

01:11:22.020 this bizarre tale to tell and the media actually took it serious and it was widely publicized. But in the

01:11:30.420 eighties, you had, you had a, a deluge of abduct abduct, abductees coming forth, describing their

01:11:40.900 experiences and they were coming to abduction researchers. Yeah. And these, and the abduction,

01:11:46.500 alien abduction researchers are not crackpots. They're not tinfoil hat crackpots. You're talking

01:11:51.380 about very prestigious people. You're talking about very intelligent, highly intelligent researchers,

01:11:56.260 such as the late John Mack from Harvard university, who is the head of the, uh, department of, of

01:12:03.540 psychiatry at Harvard. I thought it was a prerequisite to get into Harvard. You had to be a crackpot.

01:12:08.020 At this point. Today. At this point. Yeah. So you had, um, people like, uh, Dr. Carla Turner,

01:12:15.060 who, who, who, who was a professor at the university level. Um, uh, Dr. David Jacobs,

01:12:21.940 who was a professor of history at Temple university and others of this caliber who, who did a lot of

01:12:30.500 research and collected a lot of data regarding the abduction phenomenon. And what you have to

01:12:36.740 understand about this phenomenon, the abduction phenomenon is that this, this is an area of

01:12:42.900 research that, that lends itself to scientific inquiry. Yeah. This isn't just fanciful stories.

01:12:49.860 These stories have every kind of evidence to prove a case in court of law. Um, well, when ab, when,

01:12:56.820 when, when abductees are taken, they're physically removed from the point of abduction. They're not

01:13:02.660 there anymore. Um, you've had incidents in which, which people have been abducted and search parties

01:13:09.860 have been sent out to look for them. And then they mysteriously appear back in their room or back on

01:13:14.580 the couch or whatever. Um, you have, uh, cases in which, uh, abductees that, that, that, um,

01:13:22.740 there's third party witnesses, like a neighbor sees their neighbor being abducted, like beamed up to a

01:13:29.060 spaceship. Yes. In some cases. Yes. Um, you have, uh, abductees have physical evidence on their bodies

01:13:39.220 when they, when they, sometimes there's an abduction episode that happens and when they return, they have

01:13:44.020 scars, fully formed scars that they didn't have the, the, the night before. And of course you have

01:13:51.380 abductees who return with fetuses in their wombs. And, um, and they weren't pregnant previous to the,

01:13:59.780 to the abduction event. And this is, as I said, this is a, this is a, an area of research that lends

01:14:08.100 itself to scientific inquiry because of the physical evidence. But it's not the fetuses they have in their

01:14:13.620 womb, presumably are human. They don't have a... Those, no, they're, they're hybrids. And let's,

01:14:20.580 you know, I want people to separate in their mind the three-fingered tridactyl situation to

01:14:25.140 the alien abduction scenario. But we've never seen one of these hybrids, have we?

01:14:30.900 Well, we haven't, but abductees interact with them all the time. So the abduction,

01:14:35.620 the abduction phenomenon has been going on for a long time. But like a woman get, you know, says,

01:14:40.260 I got beamed up to the spaceship. I came back, I'm pregnant. I give birth to this. They don't give birth.

01:14:47.540 They come back with fetuses and the fetuses are removed in a subsequent abduction episode between nine

01:14:53.700 and 11 weeks before they start to show. A typical abduction episode unfolds in the following way.

01:15:04.100 You'll have, let's say there's, there's a woman is going to bed at night. She's maybe reading in bed,

01:15:10.980 and then she turns the lights off and goes to sleep. Her husband could be laying in bed next to her.

01:15:16.580 And then suddenly she awakens in the middle of the night to a light in her room. She opens her eyes,

01:15:22.620 but she's paralyzed, can't move, can't speak, very reminiscent of sleep paralysis. But in many

01:15:31.500 cases, they'll see a beam of light in the room or a flash of light. And then a little gray guy appears,

01:15:40.060 or usually three, three little gray guys appear in the room, bald, diminutive, gray people with large

01:15:49.020 almond shaped black eyes. And usually the first thing that happens is these entities will come up

01:15:56.060 to the abductee who again is immobilized, awake, but immobilized. And they'll look into their eyes

01:16:02.060 and they'll communicate telepathically with them and attempt to calm them down. And then they extract

01:16:08.460 the abductee from the bedroom in this case. And that usually happens through a beam of light that's

01:16:15.740 projected into the room and they go through the beam of light, through the window, up into the craft.

01:16:22.700 If the craft is not in proximity, then what happens is that the little gray guys, little gray aliens,

01:16:29.020 will hold the abductee by the hand. They'll walk them through the house, down the stairs,

01:16:33.020 out the front door, across the front yard, across the field, into the woods, into a clearing in the

01:16:39.180 woods where the craft has landed. And then they'll escort the abductee into the craft. And that

01:16:45.340 procedure usually happens during a corporate abduction, a mass abduction where there's multiple

01:16:51.340 people being taken from the same neighborhood. And then they take the abductees onto the craft and they

01:16:57.500 subject them to a series of procedures that are common to all abductees. And you have to understand that

01:17:04.540 that as fantastical, as crazy as this sounds, witnesses from around the world for decades now

01:17:17.820 have described the exact same thing. But couldn't they have just read the account?

01:17:22.700 No. These are people from all over the world going back decades. This goes back to before flying

01:17:31.260 saucers and little green men were popular and were a figure of pop culture. These people are

01:17:37.580 explaining the same thing. And remember, they're returning in many cases with physical evidence. Sometimes

01:17:43.260 when they're brought back, when they're returned to the point of abduction, their clothes are on backwards

01:17:48.060 or they have somebody else's clothes on. Sometimes abductees encounter, they'll encounter other people

01:17:54.140 on the craft and then they'll be shopping in the grocery store and they'll see that person who they've never

01:17:58.780 met in their life in any other context. And they recognize each other and remember the abduction episode.

01:18:04.300 And basically what happens is when they're on the craft, they're subjected to a series of procedures

01:18:12.380 that are for women, they're gynecological in nature. They're laid out on a table and the grays will

01:18:25.100 usually take semen from the males and eggs from the females. And then they take the egg from the female,

01:18:36.780 they add in the sperm from the male, then they add in some kind of a alien component. And then they

01:18:44.380 implant the embryo into the woman's womb. And she carries, the fetus develops in her womb and she

01:18:54.460 carries it for about 11 weeks. And then there's a subsequent abduction episode and they remove the

01:19:01.340 fetus and they put it into a gestation tank and it completes the rest of its development.

01:19:06.140 Now, hold on. If you're, if you're one of these women who says, you know, I got beamed up

01:19:11.900 and implanted to use a euphemism and then I come back down and I'm pregnant. Do they go get a pregnancy

01:19:19.020 test? Do they go? So there is some evidence that they're actually pregnant. And then they,

01:19:23.740 and then one day they say, okay, I'm not pregnant anymore before they're showing. So before they can

01:19:27.340 feel the baby. This is called missing fetus syndrome. Yes. They'll go get the pregnancy confirmed

01:19:34.940 at their gynecologist and then mysteriously the fetus disappears. This has been recorded

01:19:41.500 multiple cases around the world. Because for me, to me, it's kind of like Jeffrey Epstein in the prison

01:19:45.500 cell. Like if you've got a guy who's one of the most wanted men in the world, who's got a lot of

01:19:51.020 powerful people who want to kill him or who he has dirt on, and he's tried to commit suicide before,

01:19:57.580 and you have him isolated in a prison cell, and then you say, ah, darn, we took our eyes off him.

01:20:01.900 You say like, well, why'd you take your eyes off him? You got it. Hold on. You got the guys should

01:20:05.260 have eyes on him 24 seven. So if I'm a woman who I think I got abducted and impregnated by an alien,

01:20:11.420 and then I come back to earth, and I'm confirmed, I am pregnant now, wouldn't you like,

01:20:17.900 I don't know, be extra careful so you don't get abducted again?

01:20:21.900 Most abductees have no recollection of their abduction episodes. The entities that abduct them,

01:20:28.700 the greys, as I said, all communication on board the craft is telepathic.

01:20:33.420 These entities never speak with their mouths. And they have the ability to implant screen

01:20:40.940 memories in the minds of the abductees. And a screen memory is basically a false memory.

01:20:46.380 So in the case that I described earlier, that a woman who's being abducted, she goes to sleep,

01:20:52.860 she wakes up, she has these little gray guys in her room. Sometimes there's a screen memory,

01:21:00.060 and the abductee has this bizarre recollection, which is sort of dreamlike, where let's say there's

01:21:07.020 an owl perched on her nightstand, and it's got big black eyes, and it's like communicating

01:21:13.420 telepathically with her. And that's her memory of the event. But she has scars. The next morning,

01:21:18.460 she wakes up with a scar, or her nose is bleeding, and she feels like something happened at night,

01:21:24.700 but I don't know what it was. Well, what happens is they have these false memories, screen memories,

01:21:31.260 that are implanted into their minds that are designed to obfuscate the real memories.

01:21:39.820 So most abductees don't have conscious recall of an abduction episode, of an abduction event.

01:21:47.500 You have to circumvent the screen memories. And when you circumvent those screen memories,

01:21:51.340 you get the same story. I mean, we're talking from hundreds of thousands of people around the

01:21:59.660 world, from different cultures. But how do you circumvent the screen memory? Could you not,

01:22:02.860 would that not be? Well, the way that abduction researchers

01:22:06.460 do it, and have done it in the past, is they use various relaxation techniques. Some of them do what's

01:22:12.300 known as hypnotic regression. Yeah. But what I'm saying is, couldn't that process be implanting the

01:22:18.620 memory? So if the way we're looking at it now is, well, the real memory, the real thing that happened

01:22:23.260 is they were abducted and impregnated by aliens. The fake memory is that you were looking at your

01:22:27.820 owl, talking to your owl, but couldn't it just be the opposite? That the real thing that happened

01:22:31.340 was you were talking to your owl, and... Well, the problem is all the physical evidence that I,

01:22:36.700 the aforementioned physical evidence. The scratches could be, they could have scratched themselves.

01:22:39.980 The problem is when your neighbor sees you being abducted. Yeah, that's a harder one to make up,

01:22:43.660 I guess. The problem is when you're missing. Yeah. When you were, when, when, you know, your

01:22:49.900 daughter went to bed at night, and now you can't find her, and the police are out looking for her

01:22:55.900 for a couple of hours, and then suddenly she's back in her bed. Yeah. The problem is when abductees are

01:23:02.060 abducted from their bedroom, and they're not always abducted from their bedroom. Yeah. Some,

01:23:06.380 some are abducted while they're driving, they pull over, and they're abducted. There's a lot of cases like

01:23:10.140 that. But let's say you're, this happens, actually this has happened quite a bit, where an abductee's

01:23:15.740 abducted from their bedroom, but, but they don't get put back in their bed. They're left outside

01:23:20.780 on the patio, and they're knocking on the door, and they're in their nightgown, and the door's

01:23:25.740 locked, and sometimes they have to break into their own house to get back in. I mean, this, this is,

01:23:30.620 this is not a psychological phenomenon. But they could, a skeptic would say, they probably went

01:23:35.500 sleepwalking. They probably just went out, and they don't remember it. They don't, they don't remember it.

01:23:39.260 They say they have this gap in their memory. So maybe, you know, like a dementia patient goes

01:23:43.420 out and starts wandering, doesn't know how they ended up on their front porch or something.

01:23:47.020 Couldn't it just be that? Or no, you're saying the, the uniformity of the, the physical evidence

01:23:53.340 points to an alien abduction. And, and the synchronization of all of the testimony of

01:24:00.780 abductees from around the world. Different cultures, different languages, different backgrounds.

01:24:04.540 I mean, and it's, it's, it's every walk of life. This, it's, it cuts cross-culturally,

01:24:11.500 this phenomenon. I mean, you have, you know, you have blue collar guys that are being abducted next to

01:24:18.940 doctors and lawyers and probably congressmen. I mean, it's, it's, it cuts,

01:24:24.860 it cuts against every cultural identity, every occupation. Every bias.

01:24:30.700 And bias. And bias. And it's, it's a reality. So I studied the abduction material. I've been

01:24:38.380 studying it for a decade and very intrigued by it. And there's a lot of good material. Like this,

01:24:46.540 again, these aren't crackpots. There's a lot of good research. And eventually I've, I've been speaking

01:24:54.940 about it on, on podcasts and, and writing about it. I wrote about, I write about this in my book,

01:24:59.980 Birthright. And now I have abductees coming to me, telling me their stories, relating things to me.

01:25:08.940 I'm not asking them to come to me. And these people are not, they're, they're, most abductees are not,

01:25:17.900 they don't want to publicize what's happening to them. They don't want fame. They're not looking for

01:25:21.740 money. They're not looking to publish a book. This is just something that they live with and they want

01:25:26.060 answers. And I'm sure after this interview, I'm going to get flooded by emails of people who are

01:25:31.740 sending me emails describing the same phenomenon. And, you know, the, the, the late Dr. John Mack,

01:25:42.700 he was a psychiatrist and he said, look, either one of two things is happening here. And this is,

01:25:48.620 um, this is definitive. Either one of two things is happening. Either people are really being abducted

01:25:58.940 and, and this is a, this is a physical phenomenon that's widespread or there's something just as

01:26:05.260 intriguing going on. There's a psychological phenomenon happening where all these people

01:26:09.980 think they're being abducted all over the world. Okay. And remember, we're talking decades back.

01:26:15.660 We're not, it's still happening today. But you could say, you could say, you know,

01:26:18.940 schizophrenia is, involves hallucinations and... Collectively? Is it corporate hallucinations

01:26:26.620 where everybody is experiencing the same thing and coming back with the same physical... No,

01:26:30.460 no. But you, you would at least say schizophrenia exists across cultural boundaries and geographic

01:26:35.500 boundaries and the same, you know, borderline personality disorder exists across cultural boundaries.

01:26:39.020 And it's, it seems to be concentrated among affluent people in America, but, uh, you know,

01:26:43.740 it exists everywhere now. So that's not to say, you know, your neighbor sees you get beamed up to a

01:26:49.180 spacecraft. That's obviously that's a separate issue, but if it, but to his point, if it were a psychological

01:26:55.260 phenomenon, that's an interesting thesis. Could it not also be, uh, a spiritual phenomenon?

01:27:02.300 What do you do with the implants?

01:27:03.980 What's the implant? You're talking about the fetus?

01:27:05.820 No, no. I'm talking about many abductees. I think all abductees have alien implants.

01:27:12.060 What's the implant?

01:27:12.780 These are small, very small devices. They're about the size of a small pill. They're usually located up

01:27:19.500 in the upper nasal cavity, sometimes behind the air, sometimes behind the neck, but they can be

01:27:24.780 anywhere in the body. And they're, these are very, um, anomalous. There was a doctor, uh, Dr. Lear,

01:27:35.340 Roger Lear. Uh, he extracted several of these things from patients who came to him

01:27:44.460 and he discovered a few things, a few very interesting, um, features of these implants.

01:27:51.340 Number one, the body doesn't reject them. So these are technological devices that are implanted

01:27:57.260 in the body. The body does not reject them. They're foreign objects. There's no swelling.

01:28:00.940 There's no inflammation. Number two, they're evasive. They move. And when, uh, Dr. Lear would

01:28:08.860 go to, sometimes would go to, and others, by the way, not just Dr. Lear, the late Dr. Lear,

01:28:12.460 he passed away, would go to extract these implants. They would evade, evade him in the body.

01:28:18.700 So they're mobile. They move around. And then the third thing about them is that they, they seem to

01:28:23.260 be composed of, of, of like nanotubes, nanotechnology. And, and these have been extracted

01:28:34.300 from abductees. Abductees have had them fall out of their, uh, noses, their nasal cavity after an

01:28:40.140 abduction episode. Um, so I think all the abductees are implanted. I mean, we have, there are, we have,

01:28:48.700 not me, but abduction researchers have the implants that have come out of people's bodies.

01:28:54.620 So how do the skeptics explain that? Like me, how do I explain that?

01:28:58.540 There is no explanation. So really there's, there's, let's, let's say inside of ufology,

01:29:05.260 there's two camps. So among people who believe in an extraterrestrial presence or whatever it is,

01:29:10.700 non-human intelligence, some of them believe that the abductions are actually happening and that,

01:29:19.820 you know, the gray aliens are perpetrating this phenomenon. Others think that the government is

01:29:25.100 perpetrating this phenomenon. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That the elements of the CIA are abducting people

01:29:30.860 and pretend dressing up like aliens and so forth. Yeah. I mean, there, there have been agencies of

01:29:35.180 the U S government that have conducted experiments on. Yes. But, but the, the pro and I understand why

01:29:40.140 people think that, and I think there may be some truth to that, but in it, but the scope of that

01:29:43.980 would be very limited. There is no way it is entirely, uh, I think unfeasible

01:29:53.900 that there is some element of any government, not just the United States government, any government

01:29:59.900 that is capable of perpetrating a phenomenon that is so widespread, so secretive.

01:30:09.580 We're talking

01:30:12.780 the, uh, abduction researchers, uh, um, but hop, the late Bud Hopkins, and then Dr. David Jacobs,

01:30:18.300 who's still alive. They did a poll. I think it was a Roper poll. Um, I can't remember the year,

01:30:23.900 I think it was back in the eighties or nineties and it was a professional poll. I forget how many people

01:30:30.460 they, they, um, uh, what do you call that? Surveyed. Surveyed in the poll, but they determined

01:30:39.020 that somewhere between two and 5% of the, of the U S population are abductees, two and five, between two

01:30:47.100 and five percent. So you're talking about a tremendous amount of people who are experiencing

01:30:53.260 this phenomenon. But we, you know, they, they don't all have like implants in their noses.

01:30:58.700 I would say all of them have implants somewhere in their body, but they haven't been discovered.

01:31:02.220 No, but many of them do discover the implants. And it's usually during a C, a CT scan or an X-ray

01:31:08.700 or something like that. And they find this strange foreign object. Sometimes they decide to have the

01:31:13.020 object removed, but not always because sometimes it's embedded way up high in the, in the, in the

01:31:17.980 nasal cavity, um, or back here behind the, uh, the ears, the back of the neck. And most abductees

01:31:26.780 that I've interfaced with who have implants just would rather not touch it. They don't want to,

01:31:31.900 you know, they don't want to operate and dig in there and try and get this thing out because it's

01:31:34.860 not really affecting them. They don't feel it. It's not causing any pain. Yeah. But if it proves the

01:31:38.620 existence of some intelligent bizarro being or of a nefarious government program, wouldn't you be

01:31:44.860 willing to, you know, go under the scalpel for it? Well, many do. And you've got to find, you know,

01:31:50.380 I mean, you've got to find a surgeon willing to, to extract it. And, and it's, you know,

01:31:59.100 and there are surgeons out there who do it. Like, like I said, the late Roger Lair. So what does he do?

01:32:04.220 So he gets the thing out and looks at it. What, what, what does it do? What is the, what is the

01:32:09.660 implant? Well, it's evasive. They're very difficult to get when you, when you do extract them. Again,

01:32:16.540 they seem to be covered in a, in a membrane, some kind of an organic membrane. And they're,

01:32:22.300 they're very, very difficult to cut, really hard to cut. Um, they've looked at them with the electron

01:32:29.980 microscopes and they've discovered, as I said before, like nanotubes. Um, so there seems to

01:32:36.460 be some kind of a nanotechnology is associated with these things. Um, but quite a few of them

01:32:42.620 have been extracted from abductees. So where are they? I want to see one of these things.

01:32:47.500 Well, Lair had some, um, it's rumored that Steven Spielberg has some. I've got people who come to me

01:32:56.060 right now. I've got a couple of people who have identified an implant and, and they want to get

01:33:02.940 it extracted and analyzed. So there aren't a whole lot of people who do abduction research anymore,

01:33:10.620 precisely because it's just seems so fantastic. Sounds crazy. It sounds absolutely crazy. And so

01:33:16.860 it's, it's the least researched, uh, domain within ufology, especially today. Even though,

01:33:25.740 as I keep reiterating, there is a, there is a compelling body of evidence, excellent research,

01:33:33.740 excellent data that has been accrued over decades in regard to this phenomenon. And there are

01:33:39.980 contemporary people all over the world, not just the United States who are still experiencing the

01:33:45.100 phenomenon. And, and, and by the way, the phenomenon is intergenerational. So if your

01:33:50.540 parents are abductees, then you're, then the kids, I mean, then you're an abductee. So if the parents are

01:33:55.420 abductees and their children are also. But again, wouldn't that, to me, that raises such a red flag

01:33:59.580 of, all right, your dad's a nut and you're going to be a nut too, because you got some quirk of your

01:34:03.980 psyche or something. You know, I, all I can tell you is I've, I have, um, familiarized myself with the

01:34:15.740 data and I interface all the time with abductees all the time. And these people are, they don't seem

01:34:27.180 from all walks of life. Some of them are very good friends of mine who I know personally. These are

01:34:34.300 not crazy people. They're totally sound of mind, rational people. And what they described to me

01:34:44.300 synchronizes precisely with the research, with the data that I've read. I mean, it's, it's the exact same

01:34:55.100 phenomenon. And oftentimes, you know, they, they, they describe, they, they all describe the beings

01:35:01.980 in the same way by the, they all describe the beings in the same way. One, one friend of mine

01:35:05.740 actually reached out and grabbed one by the neck during an abduction episode. And she described the

01:35:12.060 feeling, the skin of this creature in the exact same way that everyone else does. It's, you know,

01:35:19.020 it's, it's, it's cold and clammy, leathery skin. So this is, this isn't fanciful. Now,

01:35:28.220 is it some sort of crazy psychological thing that, that, that there's like a collective hallucination

01:35:33.900 happening? How do you explain the, the implants? How do you explain the scars? How do you explain,

01:35:40.700 how do you explain the, the, the, the, um, the, the disappearing fetuses? How do you explain?

01:35:49.900 I could explain both of the latter things. The scars could be a kind of repressed self-harm

01:35:55.260 or you, that, that, that are not there when you go to bed, but, but are there the next morning when

01:35:59.180 you wake up? Yeah. Fully, fully formed. No, you're saying the scar, it's not just an injury,

01:36:03.100 but that it's a, no, no, no. It's a fully formed scar. Okay. The, the disappearing fetus,

01:36:08.700 you could say, well, it was a, you had a miscarriage or something like that. I don't know.

01:36:13.740 But the, the implants would be harder to figure out. What about the missing time?

01:36:19.180 What do you mean? Many abductees. Well, you're, you're, if, let's say you're driving from one

01:36:26.140 location to another and it's going to, it should take you an hour to get from A to B and you're

01:36:30.140 driving at night. And this is usually the way it works. You're driving along the road and you see

01:36:37.660 a light in the sky. You're usually on a rural road at nighttime, see a light in the sky and you think,

01:36:42.940 oh, that's interesting. What is that? You're kind of looking out your windshield

01:36:46.860 and suddenly you realize it's getting closer and closer until it's right behind your car.

01:36:51.420 And you can actually see the shape of something in the rear view mirror. And it's very bright.

01:36:55.740 Then the next thing you know, you've arrived to your destination, but you're missing two hours of time.

01:37:00.940 Very common. What I just, that scenario is actually quite common among, among abductees.

01:37:08.700 Well, they're not missing the time. The time is perfectly accounted for while they were on board

01:37:14.380 the craft. You could say being subjected to the, to the, because they blacked it out. You know,

01:37:18.780 I'll be, sometimes I'll be driving. I was just on a long road trip. You've been driving and I don't

01:37:21.980 know, you know, you're, you kind of blank out for a little bit. You say, oh wow, did 20 minutes go by?

01:37:26.300 Yeah. But when they're subjected to hypnotic regression or they work with an abduction,

01:37:30.700 abduction researcher, and there really aren't many of those left and they can recall the memory.

01:37:37.900 It's not, it's not, I blacked out. It's okay. Here's the, because the last thing they consciously

01:37:43.980 remember is the light is the light behind them. And then suddenly they're at their destination

01:37:48.780 or they're miles down the road suddenly. And they have no, really no recollection of what happened

01:37:53.740 in the interim, but they're, they've lost two hours. But when they begin to recover the memories,

01:37:59.420 it's, you hear the same thing from everybody all the time. They pull over to the side of the road

01:38:04.700 because the, the, the entities are connected to them telepathically. And there's a, there's a,

01:38:10.940 there's an element of control that might have to do with the implants as well. They pull over to the

01:38:15.980 side of the road and they're just sort of in a comatose state and the craft either lands and the

01:38:22.860 entities get out and open the door and usher them into the craft. Or sometimes the entire cars is,

01:38:28.060 is lifted up into the craft. And then they're, they're subjected to the typical procedures that

01:38:35.660 happen on board the alien vessel. And, and then they're put back in the car, but they're dropped

01:38:43.020 off further or they're, or they're dropped off closer to their destination. Sometimes abductees are,

01:38:48.620 when they come to, they're driving on the wrong side of the road into traffic. I mean,

01:38:54.860 there's all kinds of crazy things that happen. And, um, I mean, there's a lot of things that could be

01:39:03.820 said about this phenomenon. Look, that part too, you could explain, they just sort of,

01:39:07.740 you know, they got a little drowsy, imagine something that swerved into the other side of the

01:39:11.740 road or they became British immediately. But okay. So let's say, let's say all that's real.

01:39:17.340 Let's just suspend disbelief for a moment and say, all that's real. Tying this back in some of the

01:39:23.020 deeper things we've been talking about, uh, history, philosophy, religion. Last time we were

01:39:30.300 talking a lot about the book of Enoch, biblical parallels. Are the little gray men good or bad

01:39:36.940 or neither? What they're doing is nefarious. Okay. Um, that part I could get on board with.

01:39:43.180 They're, they're, they're, uh, I mean, the, the nature of an abduction is you're taking someone

01:39:47.660 against their will. Abductees are not willingly participating in what amounts to a breeding

01:39:52.260 program. Yeah. Um, so this is an, it's an intrusion and most abductees, certainly the ones that I

01:40:00.980 are faced with desperately wanted to stop. It's very frightening experience and you have no control

01:40:08.580 over it and nobody wants to feel like a lab rat. Yeah. So, um, this is, this is a, you know,

01:40:18.620 these people have a form of PTSD, like post abduction, abduction, you know, post-traumatic

01:40:25.580 abduction syndrome. Yeah. And, and they lose sleep because they're not sleeping. And by the way,

01:40:32.040 this, an abductee is abducted from the time they're in a little child until they're elderly.

01:40:39.580 There's no one-offs? No, there are no one-offs. Abduction happens for the duration of their life.

01:40:45.960 So again, it doesn't, it doesn't that raise a red flag of maybe this is just something.

01:40:49.680 No, actually I think it, it, it, it, it creates more of a problem for skeptics because abductees,

01:40:58.220 once they begin to recall the, the abduction episodes, they recall multiple, a cascade of

01:41:04.040 episodes. And. But what about like Freud, you know, when Freud comes around and he, he's developing

01:41:09.860 psychoanalysis and all of a sudden it turns out every woman in the world got raped by her father.

01:41:14.620 I don't mean to make light of it because some women, like a very small number of women are raped by

01:41:18.000 their father. Yeah. But the numbers that Freud is talking about are just totally implausible.

01:41:21.220 Yeah. Like mass psychosis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's, I, I, there's a, and that was

01:41:26.900 the, the, um, the contention early on by skeptics is this is just some sort of fat, some sort of

01:41:32.840 mass psychosis, you know, like a collective hallucination. Um, but if so, that's almost as

01:41:42.140 equally fascinating. But again, the problem is all of the physical, physical evidence. Yeah.

01:41:46.560 That's the problem. All of the physical evidence. Um, is that, you know, there's this, as I say,

01:41:51.380 I, I don't buy aliens at all, but I have, I have many good friends who. Well, you haven't

01:41:54.860 read my book yet. I, yeah, I haven't made it all the way through, so maybe I'll believe

01:41:58.440 it. But though it is on my desk, uh, I had to make it through war and peace first. So this

01:42:03.580 will be, that'll be a nice, uh, refreshing break after that. But you know, I have, I have friends

01:42:09.120 who believe in this. Some of whom are in this very building. One of them is a tall lumberjack

01:42:13.860 looking fellow with final shirts, but some of them are much more credible people. Members

01:42:18.340 of Congress, you know, are on, on these committees who started out skeptical of the whole UFO thing.

01:42:22.940 And now they kind of believe in it. And so I, I, I guess I, I kind of keep, I'm willing

01:42:29.600 to keep a slightly open mind on all of it, but it's pretty wacky sounding.

01:42:36.240 Yeah. I mean, it's, it's extraordinary. It's extraordinary. So it's difficult to believe,

01:42:41.720 but again, when you, when you familiarize yourself, when you become conversant in the,

01:42:46.920 in the research, in the material, not accrued by tinfoil hat, nut jobs, but by highly credentialed

01:42:54.760 professionals, it's, it's conclusive. The data is conclusive.

01:43:01.260 So, so what's the upshot of it? Why are, what are they, let's say it's all real. Like,

01:43:06.480 what are the, what are the gray things? You say they're nefarious. What are they trying

01:43:10.420 to do? Like, what's the, if I'm reading this as a story, history is a story, in fact, written

01:43:15.700 by God, uh, then what's the conclusion? What's the punchline of it?

01:43:21.580 It's apparent that they're creating alien human hybrids that are indistinguishable from us.

01:43:29.580 Okay. That they appear to be integrating into human society.

01:43:35.660 Okay. So what, what's the evidence for that? Well, I mean, I would refer you to Dr. David

01:43:41.800 Jacobs' book, Walking Among Us. Uh, Jacobs, one of the premier abduction researchers. And I've,

01:43:49.260 he believes, by the way, that the ultimate goal is, is what he calls planetary acquisition,

01:43:53.800 which is a fancy way of saying they're here to take over. Yeah. Um, something like that is,

01:44:02.400 is afoot. Something like that is underway. Uh, I have no doubt that A, the abduction phenomenon

01:44:08.900 is real and B, the breeding program is real. In other words, they are creating alien human hybrids.

01:44:16.140 Okay. So if that's true and they, they intend to inject all of these, presumably they all look

01:44:21.020 like Mark Zuckerberg, these hybrids, but they come, they're injected into human society. Why not just

01:44:26.700 beam the lady up, impregnate her with the alien stuff, and then send her back down and let her

01:44:32.420 just give birth to the weird hybrid baby? Why do you have to beam her up again, take the baby out,

01:44:36.480 put him in a spaceship and then drop him in a field somewhere? I don't know. I don't even,

01:44:40.180 how do they even integrate them? Because the project is clandestine. They don't want us to

01:44:46.920 know what they're doing. But if you, if the lady just gave birth, she wouldn't, she thinks she's just

01:44:51.760 like, you know, well, I don't know. Women started giving birth to hybrids all over the world. Then,

01:44:58.420 then that would raise, obviously raise an alarm. But they look like us, don't they? Or do they not

01:45:03.820 look like us? Well, so initially it's, it seems that they've been developing, perfecting the hybrid

01:45:11.540 over time. So over the decades, remember this goes back to most likely goes back to the late

01:45:17.640 19th century, mid to late 19th century. So the idea is that they've been working to perfect an alien

01:45:25.740 human hybrid that can integrate seamlessly into human society. And that would be for all intents

01:45:31.780 and purposes completely indistinguishable from homegrown human beings. So that, that, that is

01:45:40.560 a clear and present threat. Why would it start in the late 19th century? Why would it start 5,000

01:45:46.680 years ago? I don't know why it would start then, but, but you're saying this is when these accounts

01:45:50.780 come about. There's, there's indications that, that the abduction phenomenon, phenomenon goes back to

01:45:56.720 that timeframe. Okay. So they probably not before that. So then they're trying to perfect it. So who

01:46:04.280 are, who are they? If they walk among us and they're weird, you know, half gray lizard, leather

01:46:11.780 skin people and half people, people who are they just, is it just like Joe on the street? So I'm, I'm not

01:46:19.960 sure, um, how advanced they are at this point, but again, I'm going to reference Dr. Jacobs' book,

01:46:25.960 Walking Among Us. I forget when he wrote that, I think about a decade ago or more. Um, it seems that

01:46:34.320 the, what he calls advanced stage hybrids, the ones that look like us, because as I said, it's been,

01:46:43.280 let's say there's a spectrum of hybridization in the beginning. The hybrids looked not so much like us,

01:46:48.340 more like the aliens and less like us. In other words, they had overly large head and eyes and

01:46:53.200 scraggly hair and, and were very, very, uh, spindly limbs. They look like the grays more than they

01:46:59.460 look like us. And over time. Would they have looked like they had elongated skulls and big eyes and

01:47:03.560 three fingers? Not elongated skulls, just, just overly large heads, bulbous heads with, with eyes that

01:47:08.800 are too big. And they look more like the grays than us. But you wouldn't be drawing a connection

01:47:13.840 between like, no, I'm not, no, I'm not, I'm not, um, even though it, it's going to seem like it for

01:47:19.140 somebody who watches this interview from, from beginning to end, but no, I'm not, I'm not drawing

01:47:22.620 a correlation here between the NASCA tridactyl beings and alien abductors. But so you're saying,

01:47:28.700 okay, a hundred years ago, they tried it and they look too much like aliens. Why do we think that?

01:47:34.200 That's what has been documented in the data from abductees. So in the beginning, you know,

01:47:43.600 going back to the seventies and eighties, the hybrids looked more like the aliens and they didn't

01:47:49.660 have, you know, they didn't have, uh, their personality was not as developed like, like a

01:47:55.540 human being. But where are the, where are the abductees encountering these beings? Is it on the

01:47:59.020 spaceship? Okay. All right. Okay. It's not at the grocery store. Cause then we would have seen

01:48:04.140 them. Well, I think at this point, that's, that's a distinct possibility. Have you been

01:48:09.760 to Walmart? Fair point. So the idea is. Now you believe. I know. Yeah. Now you. Now you're

01:48:17.160 thinking, wait, wait a minute. There are definitely a few places I've been. That's not quite human,

01:48:21.280 but so then they're integrating the, the, these beings into, and, and the upshot is what? Are they

01:48:28.140 going to, or, you know, is it, uh, the presidents of the United States are all lizards or is it? No. No.

01:48:34.060 It's subtler. No, no, no, no, no. I don't subscribe to the. Cause they, I've heard that

01:48:37.540 theory. The lizard thing. No. Yeah. No, I don't know. I mean, I don't know exactly what

01:48:42.040 the objective is, except I would agree with Dr. Jacobson that the ultimate objective is

01:48:47.240 planetary acquisition. It's, it's conquest by stealth and nobody really knows what they're

01:48:55.900 up to. I do believe that elements of the United States government are completely aware

01:49:00.680 of this and are maybe hopefully trying to figure out what's happening, what the ultimate,

01:49:07.340 what the end game is. On your point about the, the greys and, and the synchronized

01:49:12.840 recollections, I, I've never done psychedelic drugs in my life. I have a number of friends

01:49:18.220 who have, and I have heard stories of people seeing weird little gray alien looking demon

01:49:25.660 kind of things on alternately gray or green, but they sound like a popular description of

01:49:31.140 an alien. Yeah. And I think psychedelics are very bad and I don't encourage people to do

01:49:36.660 I think it opens you up to bad spiritual things. But I, I do buy their experience. I think they're

01:49:42.580 experiencing something real and nefarious and similar to what you're describing. Do you think

01:49:48.620 there is a connection between these two perceived phenomena?

01:49:51.740 That's a very interesting question. I think that, remember I said that the aliens implant

01:49:56.660 screen memories. Yeah.

01:49:58.040 So that when an abductee attempts conscious recall, they're presented with a, with a false

01:50:02.220 memory first. Yeah.

01:50:03.560 And in order to get to the real memory, they have to circumvent that false memory. Um, well,

01:50:08.380 I mentioned there's a number of ways that the techniques that people use to do this. One

01:50:12.100 of them is hypnotic regression. Um, I think what happens with a lot of people who take psychedelics,

01:50:18.600 ayahuasca, psilocybin that, that encounter, you know, the typical gray alien, what's happening

01:50:26.740 is that they are unintentionally circumventing screen memories and they're, these real memories

01:50:34.360 are suddenly surfacing. So the psychedelic is, is causing their subconscious to bring up real

01:50:45.000 memories that relate to their abduction episodes. That's one thing that I think may be happening.

01:50:51.880 And there's some other, there's some other possibilities there as well.

01:50:54.680 That's it. Cause it, rather than my view of it was they're taking these drugs. They are,

01:50:59.900 they think they're hallucinating something, but it's sometimes they think they're piercing

01:51:03.820 through the veil, man, and they're seeing something real. And my view is they are seeing

01:51:07.200 something that is real, spiritual, not corporeal, but spiritual and bad and nefarious. But what

01:51:14.420 you're saying is no, no, no, they're not seeing something real. They're, they're hallucinating

01:51:18.280 something that comes from a real memory that they have suppressed of a physical phenomenon.

01:51:23.760 Yes. I think that that's interesting. That's like the, uh, that's like the mirror image of,

01:51:28.600 of my view of it, but it is connected. They are, they're, there's a lot I could say about

01:51:32.020 psychedelics. I think that, you know, in my opinion, what happens, this is just a theory

01:51:39.020 of mine. What happens when you take psychedelics is let's imagine that there's an internet of

01:51:45.040 consciousness. Yeah. Okay. And we can think we're, we're very familiar with this idea because we have

01:51:51.800 the actual internet. Right. And you can be sitting here in Nashville. I can be sitting in Bozeman,

01:51:55.920 Montana. And even though we are hundreds of miles apart, you and I could be interfacing as

01:52:01.840 if we were in the same room. So essentially our consciousness, our consciousness is our,

01:52:06.940 our sentience is interfacing over, I mean, instantaneous. Despite physical, despite the

01:52:12.920 physical distance. And, and in the same way, I think it, it, it might be that there is like an

01:52:20.360 internet of consciousness. And when you take a psychedelic, you plug into it. And if there are

01:52:27.560 other things, let's say non-human conscious, non-human entities who are plugged into this

01:52:34.220 internet of consciousness, then you can interface with them. It's like a, it's like a, a, a motive of,

01:52:40.880 of a platform, um, that facilitates communication. And again, it, it, because we live in the modern age,

01:52:48.420 this isn't that far-fetched. I mean, we do the same thing. We just do it through.

01:52:53.160 I mean, the telephone does it. It's not even that new technology. We do it through the agency

01:52:57.580 of technology. Yeah. And, and like the internet, just as a raw numbers thing, most of the things

01:53:05.540 you're going to encounter are probably very bad for you. I would agree with that. And I think that's

01:53:09.680 why, precisely why it's so dangerous. That's okay. I think we're playing, I think we're playing with

01:53:13.400 fire. I think that people are interfacing with intelligences that are vastly superior to them.

01:53:21.560 Um, and, and also, uh, incalculably older than the human species. And so we, we're playing with

01:53:33.600 fire. When you, when you interface with those kinds of entities, um, you are, you subject yourself to

01:53:41.760 manipulation. I mean, you, you open yourself up to manipulation. I think this is part of the reason

01:53:45.940 why in, in the Hebrew old, in the Hebrew old Testament, there's a prohibition of contact with,

01:53:52.740 with, with these kinds of entities. Yeah. Yeah. The raising, trying to interface with the dead or

01:53:56.900 demons or whatever it's. Divination. I always say, I always say, you know, the reason, even many

01:54:03.620 modern Christians will say, oh, that's all bunk psychics and the occult or they say, I don't think

01:54:08.520 that God prohibits it because it's a waste of your time. Right. I think he prohibits it because

01:54:13.440 it's bad for you and real. That's right. And again, having a casual conversation about alien

01:54:20.640 abduction like this, it makes me sound like a nut job, but you have to understand as I keep saying,

01:54:27.860 and this is what I want the audience to understand. There is a, there is a, again, I'm going to use the

01:54:32.640 word conclusive body of evidence. There are millions of people who have the exact same testimony,

01:54:41.220 physical evidence. And it's probably, you know, people that we all know, some of these individuals.

01:54:47.480 So you have, I'm sure going to be listening to this, uh, to this discussion. You have a lot of

01:54:53.200 people who are going to be thinking, this guy is completely, this dude's a whack job. He's

01:54:57.300 out of his mind. Well, I'll preempt this a little bit right now. If you, if it's 2% of the population,

01:55:00.980 if you think you've had an experience like this, I want to see it in the comments.

01:55:05.160 Oh God. I want to see it and I want to hear, I want details in the comments.

01:55:08.920 Well, I doubt you'll get details, but, but then you'll have a portion of, of, of the audience

01:55:14.220 watching this. Who's going, Oh my God, that's me. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's what

01:55:18.920 I'm saying. I want, I want that story in the comments. And I wouldn't be sitting here saying

01:55:22.880 that if that were not the case. I've read, I know, I know the data and I interact with abductees

01:55:28.800 and it conforms precisely with the data. Look in, in principle, something like what you're

01:55:35.100 describing, I'm not necessarily opposed to because, uh, the, the sons of God, you know,

01:55:41.080 made it with the daughters of men. And I believe that. So, all right. We've done the, the weird

01:55:47.600 three finger things in Peru and we've done the gray men and the hybrids. There's one, before

01:55:52.020 I let you, I know we're running long, but that's how it goes. And you still have a little cigar

01:55:54.580 left. I still have some. Yeah. I, this is the, this is the hourglass.

01:55:57.460 This is right. It is. It is. That's how I measure a lot of my time and work actually

01:56:02.340 and, and recreation. Uh, giants. So there are these, you see giants in mythology, you see

01:56:11.200 giants in the Bible, you see giants, some kind of giant like thing. And you see, uh, giants

01:56:16.980 in all of the weird internet forums where they say they've discovered giants in random places

01:56:21.740 all over the world. Do you, do you believe in that? And what is that?

01:56:25.660 Working within the biblical framework here in the, in, within the biblical context, what

01:56:31.280 was humanity? What was mankind created to do fundamentally? What were we created to do?

01:56:37.860 I contend that there, we were created for two purposes, two primary purposes. Number one,

01:56:44.280 to fellowship in the family of God, to commune with our maker. Yeah. Walk in the garden with

01:56:51.660 God. Precisely. To, to enjoy the presence of our maker. Yeah. Yeah. And to communicate with

01:56:59.240 other intelligent beings that are, that are, that are part of the family. Um, who I, in

01:57:05.020 my book, I designate as the sons of God. We are also going to become sons of God. Those of us

01:57:10.520 who believe in Christ, we're going to be given the power to become the sons of God. That power,

01:57:15.480 by the way, is the resurrection. Yeah. Yeah. So, but there are other sons of God who you

01:57:21.140 referenced earlier, right? In regard to the giants. The giants. Yes. This is the other, I've, I've,

01:57:26.140 I've, we've gone through the Peruvian three fingered things and we've, we've hit the little

01:57:30.920 gray men, but this is the last week before. I know I've kept you late, but I'm, but what about

01:57:35.740 the giants? Which not, you know, appear in mythology, in the, in the Bible, in, in random

01:57:41.460 internet reports. Let me complete this thought and then we'll, we'll transition to that because,

01:57:45.260 um, this is a very important point and I, and it, and I, and I think you might agree with,

01:57:50.400 with what I'm about to say. So we were created to interface with our maker, to commune with the

01:57:54.760 maker. Yeah. That's a, that's our primary purpose. Secondarily, the second purpose is to govern

01:58:01.120 the earth. I mean, this is working from the biblical paradigm, right? Name the animals.

01:58:06.000 Exactly. To govern the earth, to be a vice regent for the King of heaven on planet earth. That's what

01:58:11.940 we were supposed to do. Yeah. Okay. So if, if, if human beings, if, if our original design,

01:58:17.720 if Adam was created, designed to interface with his maker and his elder siblings, again, who I

01:58:25.400 believe are, our elder siblings are, are the sons of God who pre-exist us. Um, and we'll talk about

01:58:31.620 them in a minute. Then what kind of communicative capacity do we have? I mean, what does that mean?

01:58:42.920 Because we know that communication with God, those of us who are, who are of the Christian faith,

01:58:50.340 we believe that communication with God is, it goes beyond the modulation of our vocal cords.

01:59:00.800 Yeah. Like the way that we communicate with each other is through, is verbally through speech.

01:59:05.780 But, but all Christians believe, whether they know it or not, that they can commune with the

01:59:11.820 father on a different level, on a spiritual level, right? Because we know that a prayer, you can pray

01:59:18.980 a, a, a mute can still pray. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. And even, you know,

01:59:24.460 like our Lord gives us the Lord's prayer in, in the gospels. And he says, when you pray, say our

01:59:30.180 father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. I hope most of us out there know the prayer. And if

01:59:34.340 you don't learn it and pray it. So there is, there is spoken prayer or silent prayer, but that's still

01:59:39.600 mediated by language. Just the only way we can communicate is by language because we're incarnate

01:59:44.620 creatures. But there is also a kind of meditative prayer that does not necessarily require language,

01:59:51.540 even in your own mind. Right. But it's still a mode of communication, is it not? Yes. Yeah.

01:59:55.300 So if we were created to interface and communicate with our maker, then that means that we have

02:00:00.560 capabilities that, that we don't really acknowledge. We don't really think about as, as abilities that

02:00:07.780 are innate to the human species. And I think some of this, we, we designate this as psychic.

02:00:14.320 Yeah. Yeah. So in other words, uh, I would say, I believe that the human species is fundamentally a

02:00:21.680 telepathic species. Hmm. I think that, uh, Adam and Eve were telepathic, that they, again.

02:00:30.560 But then why'd they have ears? Remembering, well, remembering that we were created to, to interface

02:00:34.840 with the maker. Right. I mean, that's fundamentally what we were created to do. So I think that we have

02:00:41.060 communication, um, capabilities that, that, that we've forgotten that, that are latent. And I think

02:00:51.620 that some of this is, um, is stimulated when people take psychedelics. Hmm. So when, when, when,

02:01:00.920 when people activate something in their brain through a chemical compound, right, like ayahuasca

02:01:07.140 or psilocybin, they, they, they reawaken some latent ability to communicate in a way that, that

02:01:17.500 transcends verbal. But are we not, not, not to be pedantic or, or obsessive on the point, but

02:01:23.920 it, it always seems to me that we were made to speak. Meaning we have bodies, we have vocal

02:01:31.060 cords, we have mouths, we have tongues and ears. God tells us to name the animals and the

02:01:35.740 everything, all the plants and everything. And so, and, and two bodies, Adam and Eve say,

02:01:41.240 uh, in order to communicate with each other, it doesn't seem to me they would communicate

02:01:44.900 telepathically. I think they'd communicate in time and space. I think they do both.

02:01:47.960 I think they do both. Ironically, the human species is, or I should rather, I should probably

02:01:53.560 say the post-human species that's coming is going to communicate at the speed of thought

02:01:59.000 because of technology. Right, right. And actually there, there is a parallel when a couple's been

02:02:04.500 married for a long time, they kind of can read each other's minds. You don't really, you can

02:02:08.100 have conversations. We know that we are empathic because we know that animals are empathic. Certain

02:02:14.200 animals are empathic. Like people have their, their pets, especially dogs know they can discern

02:02:21.060 the, the, um, emotional state of the owner. Yeah. Um, and there's a lot of research on that. So

02:02:29.140 your, your pet, your dog especially can sometimes detect things, your emotional state, even if you

02:02:37.060 are not consciously, um, displaying that you're sad or depressed or something like that. There's,

02:02:43.320 that's, that's like, there's something there. There's something metaphysical happening that

02:02:48.000 we don't really understand. It's connected to consciousness. And I think these are innate

02:02:52.500 abilities that we've lost because we have degraded. We have, um, you know, our, our, our, the original

02:02:59.800 prototype of our species was much more magnificent than we are. Yeah. I mean, Adam and Eve weren't,

02:03:07.120 weren't, you know, we are, they were, they were incorrupt. Exactly. We are really crappy

02:03:12.900 versions of Adam. Yeah. And indeed in the resurrection, which you mentioned, you know,

02:03:17.640 after, when our Lord is resurrected, sometimes even his best friends have trouble quite recognizing

02:03:23.460 him. He's in a, he's, he's a body. He's in his body. Yeah. But it's a glorified body. Yeah.

02:03:28.340 Which has all these traits that are unusual. Right. But he still has the marks of the crucifixion.

02:03:31.940 Yes. You can touch it. Thomas can touch it. That's right. But also he can walk through

02:03:35.960 doors and also he can traverse vast distances immediately. Yeah. And also there are all

02:03:41.040 these qualities, which St. Thomas Aquinas describes in great detail of the glorified body. So I'm

02:03:46.200 totally on board with that. Now you mentioned that we have these elder siblings, uh, going,

02:03:51.900 going way, way back to the old garden days and you identify them with the giants or no?

02:03:56.960 Well, um, we're, we are introduced in the biblical narrative to these beings who identify, who are

02:04:03.700 identified as the sons of God. And in Job, we read that the, the morning star sang together and all

02:04:11.720 the sons of God shouted for joy when the foundations of the earth were being lain. Yeah. So this

02:04:21.320 communicates preexistence. So there's these, these beings who are sons of God and that terminology is

02:04:27.720 not incidental. This familial terminology in the Bible is not incidental. Yeah. It's there for a

02:04:33.680 reason. It's communicating that there's a family and there were sons of God in existence in the

02:04:41.340 universe before the creation of Adam. They were shouting for joy when the foundations of the earth

02:04:47.200 were being laid. But Christ is the only begotten son of God. Christ is the only begotten son of God.

02:04:51.580 He's the preeminent. Begotten, I guess begotten is an important word there. He's the preeminent son.

02:04:56.300 So there are sons of God, according to the biblical narrative that clearly preexist us.

02:05:01.060 These, they're not us. They're not part of the human species. They are both preexistent and

02:05:06.660 preeminent. And they are, they're, they're heavenly beings, let's say. Angels. They're angelic

02:05:14.680 beings. Yeah. The, the, the word angel is, is, it's a, it's a description of occupation rather than a

02:05:20.560 classification of kind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So angel just means messenger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. An envoy,

02:05:24.500 one who is sent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, in the Old Testament, there's, uh, human beings are,

02:05:28.580 are described as angels when they're functioning the capacity of an envoy. Yeah. Yeah. You know,

02:05:32.860 angel in Hebrew is malak and in Greek is angelos. It just means a messenger. Right. And, you know,

02:05:38.560 and to bring up St. Thomas again, as I like to do that, you know, there are these, this classification

02:05:43.140 of all of these different beings and what we describe as angels are, are sort of like the,

02:05:48.360 the lowest tier of them. So there are all these other, you know, seraphim and cherubim.

02:05:52.780 And among them are the sons of God. Yeah. Right. So, so getting, getting to the topic of the giants,

02:06:01.000 uh, you referenced Genesis six and this is, this is one of the, the references to the sons of God

02:06:06.520 is in Genesis six. Yeah. That the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful

02:06:12.460 and they decided to take wives from among them and they copulated with them and the women conceived

02:06:20.040 and gave birth to giants. This, this is what's being referenced in Genesis six. And I think that

02:06:28.720 Genesis, that, that, um, story, that narrative is elaborated on in the book of Enoch, first Enoch,

02:06:37.220 which we talked about last time. Yeah. And that, that, that, that story, the gods descending to the

02:06:43.060 earth, copulating with human become, becoming enamored of human women, copulating with them,

02:06:47.280 and the women conceive and give birth to giants is that's like the, like the flood myths. It's

02:06:51.720 ubiquitous across all of the primary civilizations on earth. So now are they, cause some would read

02:06:57.560 that and say, well, this is, you know, describing the age of the heroes or something, or it's not,

02:07:01.580 it doesn't literally mean physically gigantic, but. Well, according to the Bible, they're physics,

02:07:06.300 they're giants. Yeah. Sure. Is, do, do these beings relate to, you know, reports of some giant

02:07:14.500 skeleton, skeleton found in North America or something? Or no, is that different? Yes. So.

02:07:19.500 Trying to tie it all into like the little guys in Peru and all, you know, is it, is it the same

02:07:23.100 thing? No, I don't know that I could tie it into that specifically. But at least the big guys in

02:07:26.700 North America. So, so in Genesis six, you read that, that the Nephilim, the giants were, were in the

02:07:34.120 earth in those days and off and also after that. And then when you, when you read the old Testament,

02:07:39.540 you find this allusion to the, to the antediluvian, the pre-flood giants that resulted from the, the

02:07:47.640 sons of God breeding with the daughters of men and producing this hybrid race of giants. Yeah.

02:07:53.580 Again, that story is, is, is, is there's an expanded version, version of that story in the book of

02:07:59.840 Enoch. And, and then you have giants in the post-flood world. You have the giants who are inhabiting the

02:08:08.020 promised land. Yeah. Who Joshua is contending with. Joshua and the, and the Hebrews are contending

02:08:12.520 with giants in the promised land. Yeah. Of course you have Goliath and so forth. And, and you have

02:08:19.400 giants, you have legends of giants all over the earth. Yeah. And so, yes, I do believe that those

02:08:25.720 giants, that that's the lineage of the original giants from the pre-flood world, that those are the

02:08:32.040 Nephilim or the, or the offspring, the descendants of the Nephilim. And they have various names like the,

02:08:37.480 the different descendants of the Nephilim in the old Testament, like the Anakim, for example.

02:08:42.840 And so those giants are the direct relatives of the original ones that were produced through the

02:08:49.220 union of angels and humans, the sons of God and the daughters of men. So then the ones that people

02:08:54.840 dig up now all over the world, those, they would have died pre-flood or now? Not necessarily.

02:09:02.820 No. I mean, the giants that the, the ancient Hebrews contended with were, were after the

02:09:08.860 flood. And I mean, there's, so here in the United States, back in the, at the turn of the century,

02:09:18.500 the turn of the 20th century, newspapers all over the country were reporting the discovery of

02:09:26.320 the remains of gigantic humanoids, of giants, primarily being discovered in the mounds.

02:09:33.580 And, and at one time there was, there was tens of thousands of mounds east of the Mississippi.

02:09:41.680 And in some of those mounds, even according to the Smithsonian's own records, there were people,

02:09:48.200 the remains of people of unusually large stature were discovered. And some of this is documented right

02:09:55.080 in the Smithsonian's records. And nobody knows what happened to the bones. I suspect that they're in

02:10:01.360 some, they've been secreted away to some repository that the Smithsonian has somewhere, probably in

02:10:07.300 Washington, DC. And you find similar accounts all over the world. I mean, I've, I've, I've investigated

02:10:17.120 giants in various parts of the world, Peru as well. And, um, in Peru, there's, you know, the, the, the

02:10:25.540 history of the conquest of Peru comes from a collection of documents that were written by the

02:10:32.620 priests, uh, primarily by the priests, uh, who came to the new world after the conquest or who came

02:10:39.280 with the conquistadors. Oh, right. Not, you're not saying not the indigenous priests. No, no, no.

02:10:43.240 The Catholic priests came over and, uh, they were, um, they were involved in an enterprise to extirpate

02:10:50.040 idolatry in Peru. Yeah. And these are the records from which we derive the history of the conquest of

02:10:56.660 the Inca empire. Same, those same historical documents. Yeah. And this is just to give you an

02:11:00.860 example of how pervasive this is. And I was in Peru investigating giants and megaliths and stuff like

02:11:06.660 that years ago. And I met with a, a well-known, a prestigious archeologist. Uh, he, he, he, at the

02:11:14.280 time he was giving, uh, not at the time that I met with him, but he was, he was about to travel to

02:11:19.260 Washington DC and give a lecture on the Inca. His last name was De La Vega. And I remember

02:11:25.980 interviewing him in a coffee shop in Puno. And I asked him, are there any references to giants in the

02:11:35.300 historical records of Peru? Yeah. And the historians and they have access to the digital

02:11:41.920 files of, of the originals, right? That are, they're in a library in Lima. And he goes,

02:11:47.600 I don't think so. I'm not familiar with any of that. I said, okay. So I go back to my hotel and

02:11:53.780 the next morning we're getting ready to leave and, and head out to film something. And he comes walking

02:11:59.600 into the hotel and he's, he's got a big smile on his face. And he said, you know, you got me

02:12:05.340 wondering about this question of whether or not there's accounts of giants in the historical record.

02:12:10.500 So I went into the record that into the digital files and I did a search just to see. And he said,

02:12:17.480 I can't believe how many accounts there are of giants in the historical record. He said,

02:12:24.120 this is just a sample of them. I quickly highlighted some for you and he gave me a CD.

02:12:30.520 And when I looked at the CD, it was all these different chroniclers from different periods,

02:12:36.160 from the, you know, from the, the days of the immediate, immediately following the conquest in

02:12:40.640 the 1530s, all the way up to like the 1600s. And he had gone in and highlighted, and this wasn't,

02:12:47.680 these were, this, this was not all of them. This was just the ones that he quickly went in and found

02:12:51.460 for me because he was curious. And there were dozens of references to the bones of giants that

02:12:58.120 were discovered all over Peru. And we're not talking about giant sloths. We're not talking

02:13:03.800 about dinosaur bones. We are clearly talking about humanoids.

02:13:08.880 It's St. Augustine. I mentioned St. Augustine earlier. St. Augustine claims to have discovered

02:13:13.080 the tooth of a giant, a molar of a giant. Says this, it would be the size of 50 human molars or

02:13:18.180 something like that. Yeah. And, and, and I'll give you an example. In one case, a specific example,

02:13:22.220 I believe this comes from the records, and I could be wrong about this from a priest named

02:13:25.220 Arriaga. I could be wrong about, um, there was a, you know, a bunch of different guys who,

02:13:29.840 who, uh, who wrote in the, in the aftermath of the conquest whose works, that's the, the,

02:13:37.520 the historical documentation from which we derive the history of the conquest of Peru.

02:13:41.280 And in this particular case, uh, after the, uh, Spaniards conquered Peru, in, in the wake

02:13:49.880 of that conquest came two groups. You had the representatives of the Church of Rome, the

02:13:55.200 priests, and then you had coming with them, you had the representatives of the Spanish, the

02:13:59.700 Spanish crown. They were called the visitadores. And so, uh, these individuals, uh, came to Peru.

02:14:07.940 Um, the priests were interested obviously in, in converting the populace to Catholicism and

02:14:13.460 the visitadores were there to keep an eye on things for the, for the, for the King of Spain,

02:14:18.040 because there was something called the Royal Fifth, a fifth of all the treasure had to go

02:14:21.920 back to the, to the crown. Right. So they were there and they were making, um, very meticulous

02:14:26.900 records. Right. And, and there was a program of extirpation of idolatry. In other words, the

02:14:33.320 extermination of idolatry among the indigenous people in Peru. And it was systematic. They

02:14:38.280 would go from town to town and they, what they would do, the priests, the visitadores and,

02:14:42.760 and, and, and, and their, um, um, their, their cadre of, of whoever was with them, um, probably

02:14:49.480 soldiers and so forth. And they would go into a village and they would inquire of the, of the

02:14:56.320 indigenous people. Uh, they would want to know what their waka was and a walk and peruse is,

02:15:02.460 is a, is a sacred place. It could be an object. It could be a place. It's what the, it's what the

02:15:06.220 indigenous people are worshiping, but they're venerating. And so they, and, and, and often

02:15:10.680 cases they're idols, right. Or altars or something like this. And so in this program of extirpation

02:15:15.500 of idolatry, they would identify what's being worshiped and then they would destroy it. Right.

02:15:21.220 The, the priests and the visitadores are there because they're also collecting artifacts of gold

02:15:25.340 and silver or whatever else. And they are meticulously recording these events. And in

02:15:31.140 one case they walked into a village and it's usually like a, an idol that they burn or an

02:15:36.160 altar, like I said, that they'll destroy. But in this one particular case, they walk into a village

02:15:41.480 and they inquire of the villagers of the indigenous people, what their waka was, what are they,

02:15:47.700 what, where are their gods that they're worshiping? And they, cause they didn't see any altar

02:15:52.140 and there was no indication of what they were worshiping. And the natives told them that their

02:15:58.940 waka or their, their idols were in the cave, were in a cave. So the, the Spanish, the priest

02:16:08.120 and the, and the visitadores, the, the representatives of the crown, they went into the cave and they

02:16:16.680 record that the priest specifically records that when they went into the cave, the first thing

02:16:20.740 they encountered was, and this is, this are his words, dead Gentiles laying on the ground.

02:16:27.340 And they surmised that they had been sacrificed.

02:16:29.780 Yeah, yeah.

02:16:30.540 So they penetrate further into the cave. And what do they find? They find that the villagers

02:16:38.220 were worshiping three gigantic corpses that had been seated. Like they're in a sitting,

02:16:46.200 they're, they're, they're seated in a sitting position and they're dressed in cumbia and cumbia

02:16:51.920 is like the traditional garb of, of the indigenous people. And, and, and I don't remember if it

02:16:58.800 was Adiaga, but it was one, one of the, the, the priest records that the bodies were six times

02:17:03.580 the size of a normal man. And they had the bodies removed from the cave and burned in the village.

02:17:11.820 That's right out of the, the same documents that we derive the history of the conquest of Peru.

02:17:18.500 And that's just one of dozens of examples of the, of the bodies of giants being discovered

02:17:24.240 in Peru post-conquest. Um, and the same can be said, and it's, it's very reminiscent of what

02:17:29.480 was happening here in the United States with the Smithsonian and some of the, now, now some

02:17:32.940 of that under, and I think we need to make a note here that, that some of the accounts of giants

02:17:39.120 being discovered in the mounds, um, maybe even the majority of the accounts were sensationalized.

02:17:44.700 Yeah, of course.

02:17:45.160 Because back in the, you know, back, back at the turn of the century here in America, obviously the

02:17:50.920 newspapers, there was a lot of competition. And so they would sensationalize stories.

02:17:55.840 But you know, private revelation and miracles really do happen and are inexplicable by natural

02:18:03.140 means. And also plenty of people dream things up and have hoaxes. The fact that there are hoaxes

02:18:09.260 and hallucinations does not, uh, negate the fact that there's no, and I have no doubt. And I have

02:18:14.760 no doubt that although there was a lot of, um, sensationalization happening in the, in, in the

02:18:20.820 periodicals back at the turn of the century, a lot of those stories were true. Certainly the ones

02:18:24.840 that were recorded by the Smithsonian itself, right? I went to Sardinia. Uh, I I've investigated,

02:18:31.220 uh, giants on the island of Sardinia on three separate occasions. And, um, Sardinia is ground

02:18:39.580 zero for anyone who's interested in investigating giants, or at least it used to be because in

02:18:46.400 Sardinia you have people, or you did at least, you know, a decade or so ago when I was there,

02:18:51.700 um, and I've been back and forth, but, but, uh, I was interviewing a lot of the villagers in

02:18:58.240 Sardinia, a lot of the people living in Sardinia, by the way, isn't, is, is, is the, is the island

02:19:02.200 south of Corsica. It's part of Italy. It's yeah. Yeah. But it's kind of its own thing.

02:19:05.600 It's, it's, it's, they're Italian sort of, but it's kind of its own thing.

02:19:08.940 Right. They have kind of their own, uh, separate culture from the mainland Italians. Beautiful

02:19:14.300 island, by the way, beautiful people. And, uh, I'm traveling all around Sardinia interviewing

02:19:20.120 people and I am hearing contemporary stories from people who have themselves dug up the bones of

02:19:28.020 giants. And of course the skeptics will say, no, no, no, no. They were digging up mastodons and giant

02:19:34.000 sloths and so forth. No. Um, there was a time in Sardinia when they were, uh, they were engaging in a

02:19:41.560 process of industrialization and they were updating their roads and they were digging out foundations

02:19:45.980 for buildings. And, and I, and I think this began sometime around the forties and it continued for

02:19:52.860 a few decades and people were beginning to use mechanized forms of agriculture. So rather than

02:19:58.120 the, the, the horse and plow, they were now getting tractors and digging deeper into their soil.

02:20:02.100 And during this period of time, it was not uncommon for the people out there in their, digging up the,

02:20:09.880 the, the, their fields, um, to, in the process of doing that to unearth the bones of giants.

02:20:17.320 And it was common knowledge. And these were the old timers I was talking to. So a lot of these

02:20:22.400 people have probably since passed away. One of the guys I talked to was like 101 years old,

02:20:26.960 telling me stories like this. And I talked to dozens of people in Sardinia and, um, they would dig up

02:20:34.100 these bones and, and, and when they would dig up, let's say they're plowing their field with a

02:20:38.440 tractor. They dig up skeletal remains, unusually large skeletal remains. They would always get

02:20:44.460 excited. And the first thing that they would do is they would look for the hands. Why? Because

02:20:51.720 oftentimes the hands had rings, the fingers had rings, golden rings or silver or precious jewels.

02:20:58.860 And they would, they wanted to, to, to take the rings. Classic Italians. They got, they have a

02:21:03.620 priceless discovery. And what do they do? They go for the gold. Uh, well, I'm Italian too. I'm

02:21:09.080 Italian American. So, um, so they, so we're not talking about giant sloths here. We're not talking

02:21:15.680 about dinosaurs. Last time I checked, dinosaurs don't wear jewelry and they would often find,

02:21:20.460 uh, pendants around the neck, um, bracelets and, um, and they would keep it quiet obviously because

02:21:28.220 they didn't want, uh, the people from the university to come and take the artifacts that they had

02:21:32.500 discovered. I love the idea not to, not to make too much light of this. It was very interesting. And

02:21:36.940 I'm, I, I buy this. I, I was a little more skeptical on the green men, but I, I buy this

02:21:41.980 stuff. Great. But I agree, man. But I love the, uh, I love the idea that the Sardinian giants,

02:21:48.200 the Italian giants, unlike the, you know, Peruvian ones or whatever, the North American ones,

02:21:51.940 they just look like my grandpa. Basically they've got like gold chains and bracelets and stuff.

02:21:56.600 You know, I, yeah. And it, it was, uh, I heard so many stories, so many stories. Um, I'll give you

02:22:05.180 one example. There's a, there's a, there's a, a church in Sardinia and a very old church called

02:22:12.060 Anastasia and it's in the province of Sardinia. And, uh, as is common around the world, Catholic

02:22:19.600 churches and cathedrals are often built on top of temples, pagan temples.

02:22:24.060 Yeah. Whatever the old one was. Exactly. And so a lot of Catholic churches are sitting on ruins

02:22:28.560 and in, in certainly in Sardinia, this is the case. And the church of Anastasia is sitting on

02:22:35.340 Neuragic ruins and the Neuragic culture is a very ancient culture. It's very mysterious. I think it's

02:22:41.880 Canaanitish and the Neuragic people were megalith builders. They built over 30,000 megalithic

02:22:48.840 towers on the Island of Sardinia. On one Island, over 30,000 megalithic towers in the

02:22:54.040 Cyclopean style. Last time we talked about Cyclopean architecture, um, albeit cruder than

02:22:58.860 what you find, for example, in, in Peru and Sacsayhuaman and so forth, which was the topic

02:23:03.400 for our last discussion. Um, and, and, and aside from the towers, there's also, there was also

02:23:10.480 hundreds of megalithic tombs. And these tombs to this day are called the tombs of the giants

02:23:19.080 and the tombs and the towers, they're associated. Oftentimes you'll find, if you find a tomb of the

02:23:24.840 giant, you'll find, you'll find, um, the remains of a tower, which are called Neuragi. Neuragi are

02:23:31.180 the, are the towers. And some of these towers were a hundred feet tall, stone towers built in the

02:23:35.680 Cyclopean megalithic style. And, um, and so the church of Anastasia was built on top of, of, of one of

02:23:45.080 these Neuragi complexes. And I interviewed two individuals who were hired by the university in

02:23:52.720 Cageti, the capital of, uh, the capital of, of, um, of, uh, Sardinia. They were hired to excavate

02:24:02.660 at the site. And the procedure was that they would go, they were going to excavate the, the Neuragi

02:24:09.080 ruins, the Neuragic ruins in the vicinity of the church. The church is literally sitting right on top

02:24:14.300 of the site. It's just a small church, like a chapel almost. I've been there and, and they would,

02:24:20.320 the, the procedure was they would, and they worked at two different times. One worked from like,

02:24:24.260 I don't recall off the top of my head, the dates that they were there. I think one was like, uh,

02:24:28.320 late eighties. And then the other one worked in the early nineties. So, so they were not working

02:24:33.040 contemporaneously. These are two different testimonies from two different individuals

02:24:36.380 who worked two different periods of time at the same site. And the procedure was that they would

02:24:41.420 excavate the ruins and all of the artifacts would go into the church. So they set up tables on the

02:24:46.700 church that excavate the ruins and whatever artifacts they found would be

02:24:50.100 deposited into the church. And then somebody mysteriously would come at night and remove

02:24:55.220 all the artifacts. Well, they discovered lots of the typical Neuragic artifacts that, that one finds

02:25:01.760 in, in, in Sardinia. But among these mundane artifacts, they were uncovering the bodies,

02:25:10.880 the skeletal remains of giants routinely. And when we say giants, we're talking individuals who are nine to,

02:25:19.240 nine to 15 feet tall, really, let's say nine, 10, 11, and 12 feet tall, primarily from their

02:25:24.800 descriptions. And they, they, they described to me in great detail what they were discovering and how

02:25:30.580 they would take the different parts of the body. Sometimes there were, the skeletal remains were very

02:25:34.900 well preserved and they would deposit them in the church. I remember one of the individuals told me

02:25:39.960 that his wife was working with him one day and they're excavating and they discovered this

02:25:45.000 large skull and it still had the vertebrae attached. And it was so large that it took both of them to

02:25:50.860 carry it into the church. So, so he had the skull in his arms and she was carrying the vertebrae and

02:25:55.760 they went and deposited it into the church. And sometimes they would find entire skeletons and lay

02:26:00.100 them out in the church. He found three skeletons. I forget which of these two individuals found

02:26:04.900 three skeletons together. And they were, all of them were, were, were at least nine feet long.

02:26:11.640 And he even informed the, his bosses from the university, Hey, I found these gigantic skeletons.

02:26:17.580 What do I do with them? Cause the church was getting filled up with artifacts. They were extracting

02:26:21.540 so many artifacts. The church was just getting filled up with artifacts. And the, the person informed him,

02:26:28.080 lay the skeletons out in the yard next to the church. And they did that. It laid three skeletons

02:26:33.860 out, nine feet tall each. And the next morning they were gone. Both of these individuals, again,

02:26:40.820 not working contemporaneously, working one in the, in the late nineties or one in the late eighties and

02:26:46.360 the other in the early nineties at the same site. And they discovered, they, they unearthed gigantic

02:26:51.840 chalices and gigantic plates. The, the, the, the one individual told me that they, they were trying

02:27:02.440 to open, that they were excavating a tower, one of these, the, the, the remains of a, of a Nuragi tower

02:27:08.980 and that, and it was sealed and they were able to open, open it up. And they went inside. And he said

02:27:16.960 that when they walked inside with their flashlights or crawled inside, they were confronted with this

02:27:25.560 gigantic humanoid sitting at a table and he was dead and he was very well preserved. It was like he

02:27:32.140 was, uh, hermetically sealed inside of this, whatever happened, he got hermetically sealed inside of

02:27:37.940 this, inside of this tower. And he's dead, seated at a gigantic table and sitting on a gigantic chair.

02:27:44.060 And in front of him was a gigantic plate and a gigantic chalice. And on the plate were, um,

02:27:50.940 oysters that he had been eating. And he estimated that this guy had to be about 12 feet tall and he

02:27:57.300 was very well preserved. And they took that body and they laid it out in, in the church. And the next

02:28:03.540 day it was gone. And he even told me one time, um, one of these particular individuals told me that

02:28:10.140 they, they were running out of room to put the artifacts cause they were told strictly to put

02:28:15.340 all of the artifacts in the church, except for in that case with those bodies.

02:28:19.060 Skeletons.

02:28:20.260 And, and he, he, he, they were getting frustrated cause they were filling up the church with artifacts

02:28:25.520 so quickly they needed more space. So he went to talk to his boss and he said, Hey, um,

02:28:31.280 we need another place to, to put artifacts. Can we, can we like, uh, is there like another building

02:28:38.320 that we can rent or something? And this person, his boss inexplicably, inexplicably became very

02:28:46.500 agitated and, and, and told him, mind your effing business. Just put the artifacts in the church and

02:28:53.680 shut your mouth.

02:28:55.240 A very Italian response.

02:28:56.500 And, uh, and so he even told me, uh, one of the individuals told me the name of a professor

02:29:01.100 that they were working with from the University of Cageti.

02:29:05.120 No.

02:29:05.820 Who was, who was, who was fully aware of what was being unearthed at the church of Anastasia.

02:29:12.820 I, I want to know what happened with the giant skeletons and all the artifacts, but I've kept

02:29:21.020 you too long. So I think that has to be the cliffhanger for our next conversation.

02:29:23.580 I've got a lot more stories about giants. So that's, we'll have to do a part three.

02:29:28.440 In the meantime, go get the book Birthright. Timothy Albarino. Thank you, sir.

02:29:33.340 Thank you, sir. My pleasure.

The Michael Knowles Show - May 31, 2025

Mummies and Abduction： Michael & The Rogue Archaeologist ｜ Tim Alberino

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