The Michael Knowles Show - Non-Binary： Knowles Vs Protestors ｜ Cross The Picket Line

00:00:00.520 When a conservative speaks on a college campus, anything can happen.

00:00:05.320 I've come to expect the histrionics of the excitable leftist students with purple hair.

00:00:11.140 That's just how college kids are. It's frankly kind of charming.

00:00:14.660 What still gives me some surprise, though, is that the most ardent disruption these days

00:00:19.460 often comes from the supposed adults who should know better, the university administrators.

00:00:25.280 Just days before I was scheduled to speak at the University of Wisconsin-Madison,

00:00:28.820 left-wing administrators tried to shake down the students for a last-minute, unprecedented security fee

00:00:35.100 totaling well over $4,000.

00:00:38.260 For me, little old me.

00:00:40.900 At first, I was honored.

00:00:42.900 UW-Madison didn't charge any last-minute security fees when my friends Ben Shapiro and Matt Walsh spoke there.

00:00:48.980 Perhaps they were just more intimidated by my Sicilian physique.

00:00:52.860 But then I learned that the fee was not to protect the students from me.

00:00:57.020 Rather, it was to protect me from the liberal students,

00:01:01.480 who ideologically are on the same side as the administrators who were trying to shake me down.

00:01:07.660 Fortunately, the group that had invited me held its ground and even threatened to sue the school,

00:01:12.960 which was legally bound by the First Amendment to abide by free speech.

00:01:17.400 What was the result?

00:01:18.460 Chaos?

00:01:20.920 Mayhem?

00:01:22.140 Did my producer survive the violent hordes?

00:01:26.440 It all turned out great.

00:01:28.160 Hundreds of people came in, they filled all the seats,

00:01:30.520 and they were polite for almost the whole time.

00:01:34.500 I'm standing here now, a biological male, wearing a dress with a pair of leggings.

00:01:38.220 Do you sincerely believe that I should be subject to punitive justice on the basis of what I'm wearing? 0.92

00:01:42.400 And if so, are you willing to turn yourself in for wearing women's panties in your gay college film? 0.77

00:01:48.480 I say almost the whole time because a couple students, 0.85

00:01:52.000 one who called himself transgender and another who called herself non-binary,

00:01:57.000 became a bit more pointed during the Q&A.

00:02:00.340 I was happy to answer their questions.

00:02:02.240 So happy, in fact, that we all decided to sit down and have a conversation after the event.

00:02:08.640 Demi?

00:02:09.560 Demi.

00:02:10.160 Ferris, first of all, thank you for coming to the lecture,

00:02:13.180 and then thank you for your questions, and then for sitting down.

00:02:16.720 I take it you did not agree with me coming in.

00:02:19.800 Did I persuade either of you?

00:02:22.680 No.

00:02:23.320 No.

00:02:23.800 No?

00:02:24.240 No.

00:02:24.700 Okay.

00:02:25.060 Not particularly, no.

00:02:26.520 The topic of the conversation was abortion.

00:02:29.320 Mm-hmm.

00:02:29.860 You asked about transgenderism.

00:02:32.140 I did.

00:02:32.920 I didn't persuade you on that?

00:02:34.220 No, not really.

00:02:35.780 When did you start to identify as a woman?

00:02:39.380 What makes you say that I identify as a woman?

00:02:41.940 Because I actually didn't assert that.

00:02:43.700 I don't know.

00:02:44.560 Is it just pattern recognition?

00:02:46.380 Do I just think like one of the transes? 1.00

00:02:49.100 You're wearing a dress.

00:02:50.340 Yeah.

00:02:50.480 That was my first hint.

00:02:51.560 Yeah.

00:02:51.980 Have you heard of a femboy? 1.00

00:02:54.480 Do you know what that means?

00:02:56.080 Now I have, but I don't know what it means.

00:02:57.940 It's feminine men. 1.00

00:02:59.520 They wear a lot of dresses.

00:03:00.940 It's cool.

00:03:01.520 But they're not...

00:03:02.300 I'm not a femboy. 0.96

00:03:03.000 I identify as a trans woman.

00:03:04.640 Okay.

00:03:05.060 So I was right.

00:03:05.840 Yeah.

00:03:06.180 You were correct.

00:03:07.200 But a femboy is different than a trans. 0.99

00:03:09.200 Yes, they are.

00:03:09.960 They're quite different.

00:03:11.120 What's the difference?

00:03:12.060 So a femboy still retains their male identity and pursues femininity, whereas a trans woman 0.99

00:03:17.500 actually identifies as a woman.

00:03:19.080 What does that mean, though?

00:03:19.880 If I pursue Sicilian identity, then I would identify as Sicilian.

00:03:28.440 Yeah.

00:03:29.260 I would agree with that.

00:03:30.300 But then if a femboy pursues feminine identity, he would identify as female. 0.98

00:03:36.000 He would identify as feminine, not necessarily female.

00:03:38.000 I don't think...

00:03:38.440 I think you and everyone at The Daily Wire would agree that feminine and female are not 1.00

00:03:42.340 synonymous.

00:03:43.340 Well, men can be effeminate.

00:03:44.620 Yeah.

00:03:44.860 Actually.

00:03:45.260 Effeminate.

00:03:45.600 But that's different than feminine. 0.80

00:03:47.100 Feminine.

00:03:47.540 How would you define feminine versus a fem? 0.95

00:03:49.600 Feminine is good, and it's what women are when they act like women. 1.00

00:03:52.580 And effeminate is bad, and it's what men are when they act like women. 0.98

00:03:55.580 So yeah, we could say a femboy is a boy who is effeminate, whereas a trans woman actually 1.00

00:03:59.960 doesn't retain the male identity and chooses to identify as a female.

00:04:02.960 Okay.

00:04:03.400 But then to loop back around to my first question, when did you start to identify as transgender?

00:04:08.320 Started to identify as transgender.

00:04:11.860 Internally, I've noticed the sort of mismatch between my identity and the body that I was

00:04:15.940 given and the roles that society has placed upon me.

00:04:19.600 That mismatch was pretty clear from a very young age.

00:04:22.420 I'm not going to pretend that.

00:04:23.800 I was a woman all along.

00:04:25.420 You know, I was born with a female brain. 1.00

00:04:27.400 But I'd say probably since around 4K, you know, like school.

00:04:31.900 4K?

00:04:32.640 Like four-year-old kindergarten, like preschool.

00:04:34.720 Okay.

00:04:35.380 What do you think caused it?

00:04:36.520 If you say you weren't, you know, it's not like you were born in the wrong body or something,

00:04:39.320 then what do you think caused it?

00:04:40.100 I think it's quite simple, really.

00:04:42.700 I think some people like ketchup and some people don't.

00:04:46.120 You know, I wanted to live my life this way.

00:04:48.060 I wanted to pursue these characteristics, these traits.

00:04:51.060 No, I'm not denying that you want or want to do that.

00:04:53.660 That I want to, yeah.

00:04:54.400 But I'm just kind of asking why.

00:04:55.520 Yeah, I mean, I think the same reason why anybody identifies as the gender they were assigned

00:05:01.800 at birth.

00:05:02.720 It just kind of, it just feels kind of natural.

00:05:05.720 When did you publicly start doing it?

00:05:09.480 I'd say I came out as trans to everyone except for my family members because it wasn't safe 0.99

00:05:16.160 in my household.

00:05:17.700 What do you mean it wasn't safe?

00:05:19.080 Why wasn't it safe?

00:05:19.920 Yeah.

00:05:21.000 I don't want to get into the grotesque details, but I was in a pretty abusive household.

00:05:26.400 My father was not very accepting, but my mother.

00:05:29.520 Do you think maybe that might have had anything to do with, you know, all of this?

00:05:33.360 No, the abuse and whatnot didn't really, I don't see any correlation with that in my gender identity.

00:05:38.280 I could see the look on your face.

00:05:39.640 Because I've just heard.

00:05:40.500 I see the talking point.

00:05:41.020 I've heard, it's not just, I mean, I've just heard it from people who have detransitioned 1.00

00:05:46.000 or, you know, that sometimes that correlates.

00:05:47.960 Yeah, I don't like, you know, trust me, I'm not.

00:05:50.200 I'm not proud to say that I grew up in an abusive household and I also happen to be trans.

00:05:54.560 I don't want to feel that statistic, but I'm also not going to be dishonest about my upbringing.

00:05:59.180 Yeah.

00:05:59.640 Now, you are not trans. 1.00

00:06:01.120 I am.

00:06:01.860 You are trans.

00:06:02.540 You're trans too?

00:06:03.480 Mm-hmm.

00:06:04.080 No, you're not.

00:06:04.760 I am.

00:06:08.500 So what are you?

00:06:09.540 I'm non-binary.

00:06:10.880 Oh, all right.

00:06:12.600 I don't mean to be, but you're not saying you're a man.

00:06:15.480 I'm not saying I'm a man, no.

00:06:16.940 And you would have at some point in your life said you're a woman.

00:06:20.140 I don't think I ever said I was a woman.

00:06:22.320 A little girl?

00:06:23.240 I don't know.

00:06:23.920 Sure, yeah.

00:06:24.600 You did, okay.

00:06:25.220 But then when did you decide you're non-binary?

00:06:28.820 I didn't know what transgender or non-binary was until I was 14, 15.

00:06:34.940 Most people had not heard of it until recently.

00:06:37.100 I mean, it existed, but I hadn't heard of it.

00:06:40.560 I suppose we'll perhaps agree to disagree on that.

00:06:43.680 You don't think it existed until recently?

00:06:46.040 No, I think people have been confused about their sex, and I think they've had all sorts

00:06:51.100 of aberrant desires for all of history.

00:06:53.220 But I don't think it's a real category, basically.

00:06:55.740 So I don't mean it in any disrespectful way.

00:06:57.400 I just don't think it's possible to have a male body but be a female, because I don't

00:07:04.380 think that's how body and soul or how identity actually works.

00:07:07.140 So I think what we're saying is that transgenderism, let's just say as an ideology, has existed

00:07:14.080 for a very, very long time.

00:07:15.540 The first books that were burned in the Holocaust were about transgender people, about sexual 0.97

00:07:23.200 studies.

00:07:23.680 Well, yeah, there was all sorts of sort of sexual, and it goes back, obviously, much

00:07:27.320 further than the 1940s.

00:07:28.640 People have these.

00:07:29.180 Much, yes.

00:07:29.800 But I suppose the difference would be transvestitism has existed for all of history, always been 0.96

00:07:36.060 sort of, you know, cabarets and red light districts and things like that.

00:07:39.380 But the ideology, meaning the view that a man could say he really is a woman or a woman

00:07:46.700 could say she really is multiple people, you know, they or them or not an either man or

00:07:51.240 a woman, that's a relatively new ideology. 1.00

00:07:54.260 Um, no.

00:07:55.220 Not the behavior.

00:07:56.320 But we have looking back.

00:07:59.060 I mean, obviously, historical records going back thousands of years get kind of shaky

00:08:03.180 just because, you know, we aren't able to preserve text that long.

00:08:05.860 And maybe text even didn't exist.

00:08:07.480 But they did exist.

00:08:08.820 We actually have not for all of human history.

00:08:11.320 Well, thousands of years.

00:08:12.200 Yeah.

00:08:12.380 But not like, oh, we're not going back to Adam in the garden.

00:08:15.660 That's probably true.

00:08:16.360 Um, but we have, there's evidence of people with, um, assigned male, uh, skeletons in female, 1.00

00:08:26.940 traditionally female clothing and attire in burial.

00:08:30.860 And we have the same vice versa people. 0.68

00:08:33.320 Um, this is, uh, one of the specific, uh, examples I'm thinking of was, uh, Norse.

00:08:40.080 Um, there was a, uh, female skeleton that was buried with, uh, traditionally male burial

00:08:50.400 rites and, uh, clothing.

00:08:52.540 How do they know the, the skeleton's female?

00:08:56.500 Um, well, I, I said female because obviously I believe that gender is something social rather

00:09:02.860 than just biological, but.

00:09:05.280 But the scientists were able to identify it by the skeleton.

00:09:07.820 We know that sex is unambiguous. 0.87

00:09:09.580 Yes.

00:09:10.420 I don't think we're denying that.

00:09:11.940 There's this odd idea among conservatives that transgender people don't understand that

00:09:18.020 biological, like, sex exists or that we're deluded.

00:09:20.640 Some don't.

00:09:21.520 Some don't.

00:09:22.240 Some do.

00:09:22.780 You obviously do.

00:09:23.640 But some, some don't.

00:09:25.160 No.

00:09:25.700 I mean, I, I have yet to meet anybody.

00:09:27.820 I've yet to meet anyone.

00:09:28.640 I've seen people clipped out of context to look like that, but I haven't.

00:09:31.380 Those people are clipped talking to me.

00:09:33.040 These are people, I, I, I, I promise you, I've spoken to these people on camera in some

00:09:37.060 cases.

00:09:37.420 Mm-hmm.

00:09:37.760 Uh, but, but in any case, you don't, you don't, uh, feel that way.

00:09:41.180 Uh, I, I, and have never felt that way.

00:09:44.400 So you're non, you're non, you're non, you're non-binary. 1.00

00:09:45.580 Uh-huh.

00:09:46.480 You said that you came to this realization at 14.

00:09:49.000 Mm-hmm.

00:09:49.240 What do you think kind of pushed you over that edge at 14?

00:09:53.480 Um, I think intense emotional distress at the prospect of needing to navigate through

00:10:01.440 life being someone's daughter, someone's sister, someone's girlfriend, someone's wife,

00:10:07.720 someone's mother.

00:10:08.940 Um, that's just something that, that, that wasn't really a role that I wanted to fill and a role

00:10:17.100 that I felt intensely distressed at the prospect of needing to fulfill.

00:10:20.820 What, why is that?

00:10:22.540 It's, it's difficult to explain and would be difficult to explain in a very short period

00:10:26.400 of time.

00:10:26.940 It's just one of those things that you feel deep down in your soul.

00:10:30.280 You do, you mean it would be difficult to explain even to yourself or you're just saying

00:10:33.460 it would be difficult to articulate this thing that I understand?

00:10:35.180 It's difficult to articulate.

00:10:36.640 It's kind of an abstract thing.

00:10:38.620 The, yeah, the cause of gender dysphoria and this discomfort with your sex assigned at

00:10:42.320 birth and these roles is still pretty widely debated, even in the woke scientific community.

00:10:46.760 And there would seem to be, even among the pro-trans kind of woke, a presumed, uh, plurality,

00:10:53.440 or a multiplicity rather, of causes.

00:10:56.040 Like some people can fall into this as a bit of a sexual fetish.

00:11:00.820 That isn't transgender though. 0.94

00:11:02.900 That's, um.

00:11:03.540 Some guys who dress up like women will openly state that they're, uh, the Wachowski brothers

00:11:08.820 who are now the Wachowski sisters said they, uh, fell into their transgender identity largely

00:11:13.420 through pornography and, uh, others will say that as well.

00:11:16.060 Now you might say, well, it wasn't pornography.

00:11:17.600 It was because of, you know, I wanted to wear a dress when I was four years old or something.

00:11:20.800 But I'm just saying in some cases it would appear to be more of a sexual fetish.

00:11:25.460 For some people it might be caused by some emotional distress.

00:11:28.500 For some people it might be caused by any number of other factors.

00:11:31.640 Again, I'm just, I'm, I'm just repeating what I've heard from the left.

00:11:34.440 I'm not even stating that.

00:11:35.100 I mean, the material.

00:11:36.040 I don't think the left says that.

00:11:37.600 The material.

00:11:38.320 The Wachowski brothers certainly do.

00:11:40.020 You know, they're, uh.

00:11:41.080 That's true people. 0.52

00:11:42.140 The, the most famous transgender idea of black people in the world.

00:11:44.940 The material presence of somebody wearing a dress with a male body.

00:11:46.840 That is wildly false.

00:11:48.080 The material presence of a man in a woman's dress perhaps could come about as a sexual fetish.

00:11:55.140 I think we agree on that.

00:11:56.260 But I don't think that, I think what we're trying to say is that that's a very different

00:11:59.280 thing than we're describing.

00:12:00.600 No, that's, I guess that's what I'm saying too.

00:12:02.220 That there are these, uh, so we all agree.

00:12:04.360 There are these different, uh, causes for this kind of, um, identity.

00:12:08.300 There's so much more to say.

00:12:09.500 First though, go to preborn.com slash Knowles.

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00:13:01.040 Please donate as generously as you can.

00:13:03.060 Preborn.com slash Knowles.

00:13:04.660 You came not to talk about transgenderism.

00:13:07.400 You asked me about abortion.

00:13:08.860 So you support abortion. 0.61

00:13:10.700 Absolutely.

00:13:11.400 And you support it.

00:13:12.300 Do you support abortion?

00:13:13.400 We didn't even talk about it, even though this is important.

00:13:15.120 You do?

00:13:15.580 Yeah.

00:13:16.020 You won't need one, though.

00:13:17.140 No, I won't need an abortion.

00:13:18.900 And you might not either because you're transgender or non-binary.

00:13:22.960 Do you believe that transgender people are all celibate?

00:13:26.380 I'm just a little confused as to what non-binary means.

00:13:28.980 Non-binary means I am not a man or a woman, regardless of what parts I was bestowed.

00:13:36.060 Okay.

00:13:36.820 What you're saying is your body has nothing to do with whether you're a man or a woman.

00:13:41.420 Correct.

00:13:42.300 Okay.

00:13:43.200 I think oftentimes the gender identity does describe a relationship to one's body.

00:13:47.380 For example, if I were to say I am a transgender woman, I'm directly asserting that I am a woman and that I have male genitalia. 0.98

00:13:55.080 Or you could have gone under the knife and lost your male genitalia. 0.99

00:13:57.620 I could have, yeah. 1.00

00:13:59.400 So you could be asserting that, too.

00:14:00.680 So I guess that's what I'm saying.

00:14:01.500 It seems like you could just, all of these terms just mean kind of whatever you want them to mean.

00:14:06.280 No, not really.

00:14:07.960 It's pretty concrete definition.

00:14:09.460 So you just said, to be a transgender woman, I have to be wearing a dress or look like this.

00:14:14.460 I didn't say I have to.

00:14:15.980 I said that's just how I like it.

00:14:17.040 What's the concrete definition of a transgender woman?

00:14:19.100 Somebody who is assigned male at birth who identifies and pursues womanhood. 0.84

00:14:23.420 Okay.

00:14:23.860 And what is womanhood? 1.00

00:14:24.980 Not to sound like Walsh, but what is womanhood then?

00:14:26.960 What does that mean in that statement?

00:14:29.060 I would describe womanhood as a very subjective concept.

00:14:30.760 But you just also said we're talking about things that are concrete.

00:14:33.160 And that's all.

00:14:33.600 I'm just trying to grab onto something.

00:14:35.040 What is the actual definition of the thing that you are using to define transgenderism?

00:14:40.460 I would describe womanhood as a set of characteristics associated with females, usually removed from sex. 0.99

00:14:44.660 But that's a circular definition.

00:14:46.540 And even the way you said it, you said I would describe, but I'm not asking you to describe anything.

00:14:50.560 I'm asking if you can offer a definition.

00:14:53.080 Because it gets to the heart of your identity, which is that you're four years old, you say, I don't really feel like a man.

00:14:59.080 How would you even know what that would mean at the age of four?

00:15:02.880 And how would you know what that would mean now to feel like a woman?

00:15:05.080 Because there are a variety of traditions associated with the male and female sex.

00:15:10.740 And I've decided that I'd rather subscribe to the ones associated with the female sex. 0.99

00:15:14.720 But how would you even know what that is?

00:15:17.000 How would I even know what the traditions associated with the female sex are?

00:15:20.060 Yeah.

00:15:20.280 I mean, they could be just a caricature.

00:15:21.980 I know that mom stays at home and that dad goes to work.

00:15:24.420 I know that all of these.

00:15:24.780 But you would disagree with that.

00:15:26.900 No.

00:15:27.460 You said you reject those roles.

00:15:28.840 I understand what a traditional gender role is.

00:15:31.320 I don't reject that it as a concept exists.

00:15:34.780 I'm not comfortable with these social expectations.

00:15:37.440 Therefore, I am going to adhere to different social expectations that are generally assigned to the opposite sex.

00:15:42.840 But that's not what you're saying.

00:15:43.120 No, no, no.

00:15:43.460 You're not.

00:15:43.940 I'm saying it right now.

00:15:45.140 Well, now you are.

00:15:45.540 But that's not previously what you said.

00:15:46.680 Previously, what you said was there are these different social expectations associated with being a woman.

00:15:51.900 And I so wanted to avoid them that I no longer call myself a woman.

00:15:57.260 Not that a woman can avoid those social expectations. 0.99

00:16:00.180 But rather that the social expectations are so intrinsic to womanhood that I will no longer be a woman.

00:16:06.420 I will be a non-binary they-them. 1.00

00:16:08.480 That's what you said earlier.

00:16:10.140 You see the conflict, the contradiction there.

00:16:12.000 Yes.

00:16:12.400 I understand where your confusion came from.

00:16:15.120 So, I don't want to adhere to the social norms generally pushed onto women.

00:16:25.020 And I also feel intense discomfort when being called with feminine pronouns, when being called a woman, when being perceived as a woman.

00:16:35.560 Yeah.

00:16:35.880 And I understand those things aren't necessarily under my control.

00:16:38.660 So, you know, water off a duck's back.

00:16:41.140 But I feel discomfort with that.

00:16:43.240 Therefore, I choose to reject it.

00:16:45.280 Would you, just to tie it up on you, I don't want to spend the whole time talking about the issue that you wanted to talk about.

00:16:51.940 Would you ever get an abortion? 1.00

00:16:54.360 Um, I could, I could come up with a circumstance in which I would.

00:16:59.160 I highly doubt that such a circumstance would arise.

00:17:03.580 Why wouldn't you?

00:17:05.120 Mostly just because those circumstances, I've never been pregnant.

00:17:09.640 I do not foresee being pregnant in my future.

00:17:13.220 Okay.

00:17:13.800 But what, why wouldn't you in principle, I guess?

00:17:17.200 In principle?

00:17:17.980 In principle, I have no issues with it.

00:17:20.260 Past certain points of development, I do believe you can start ascribing personhood to a fetus.

00:17:28.360 What would the point be then?

00:17:30.240 What would the point be?

00:17:31.020 Because you said, look, there's a, there's a point at which I would start to ascribe personhood.

00:17:34.760 And then presumably you wouldn't have the abortion. 0.99

00:17:36.520 So what is that point?

00:17:37.500 Um, I, I'm not a doctor.

00:17:41.400 Um, and, you know, this isn't something that I consider very much because again, I don't foresee myself being pregnant.

00:17:48.300 Sure, sure.

00:17:48.680 But you, you intuit, I mean, you're obviously concerned about the issue of abortion.

00:17:51.700 You showed up to this lecture tonight to ask me this long question about it.

00:17:54.300 So you, you intuit that there is some point, at least in gestation where the baby would be a person and then it would be kind of wrong to abort the baby.

00:18:03.280 So, so.

00:18:03.580 That's, that's me personally.

00:18:05.100 Yeah, so I'm asking about your personal opinion.

00:18:06.660 I don't believe that anyone should be forced to give up their bodily autonomy to save the life of another person.

00:18:13.420 Even if you're considering a fetus to be a baby.

00:18:15.980 Even if you're considering a fetus to be a baby.

00:18:16.720 So even if it is a person.

00:18:18.200 From, from the beginning.

00:18:19.560 So then why did you bring up the personhood thing?

00:18:21.620 You just said, look, I would say.

00:18:22.660 That's how I feel, but I don't believe that the way that I feel should necessarily decide what other people do with their bodies and their lives.

00:18:31.080 You don't think that your conclusions are sound?

00:18:33.660 You don't think that you perceive the truth?

00:18:35.380 I'm just not.

00:18:36.260 You don't think your logic is too good?

00:18:37.540 I think that believing that my perspective is universally correct, I think that that's hubris.

00:18:45.500 I'm a human being.

00:18:46.460 But, but you came here to tell me that my views are wrong and your views are right. 0.89

00:18:50.080 I do believe that people have the right to self-determination very firmly.

00:18:53.560 But you would, you would force me to live in a society that tolerates abortion. 0.76

00:18:57.540 I don't think that you're being personally affected by that.

00:19:00.920 It's not affecting your right to self-determination.

00:19:03.400 It's not affecting the way that you live your life.

00:19:06.080 Right.

00:19:06.320 So you're, you're, you're forcing me to, to base my political judgments on your conception of self-determination.

00:19:13.180 Don't, don't you think that's a little coercive?

00:19:15.080 Isn't that a little, a little bit of hubris that you're showing here?

00:19:18.180 Um, well, this, this is, this is really, this is odd.

00:19:23.820 Um, wait, I'm, I'm not even following, I, I'm not sure you're saying much at all.

00:19:31.080 Uh, can you repeat what you were saying?

00:19:32.400 Try and be more specific.

00:19:33.460 Yes.

00:19:33.740 You, you previously said that it's a demonstration of pride and hubris for you to take your own

00:19:39.080 personal judgments and impose them and universalize them to everyone else.

00:19:42.720 And then in the very next breath, you said that your views of bodily autonomy and self-determination

00:19:48.000 ought to apply by, to everyone.

00:19:49.820 And we all ought to abide by them.

00:19:51.340 That's why you came here to tell me that I'm wrong and you're right.

00:19:54.720 That's a contradiction.

00:19:57.120 Um, I also believe in democracy and the majority of Americans side with me.

00:20:02.140 They believe in the right to bodily, yes.

00:20:04.540 I'm, I'm not so sure.

00:20:05.660 I mean, uh, after Roe v. Wade was overruled, half of the states, uh, uh, imposed limitations

00:20:11.080 on abortion or, or banned it outright.

00:20:12.740 Um, the.

00:20:13.700 That's democracy for you, isn't it?

00:20:14.840 Um, are you under the impression that we live in an absolute democracy?

00:20:20.080 No, we live in a representative democracy.

00:20:22.860 Yeah, we, we do live in a representative democracy and those representatives do not necessarily,

00:20:27.380 their actions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the people that they represent.

00:20:31.780 So you support democracy in principle, just not ours?

00:20:35.440 I, I support democracy.

00:20:37.700 But not our democracy.

00:20:38.740 I support our democracy.

00:20:39.800 Well, we have a representative democracy and you just said that the representative.

00:20:42.480 You're putting a whole lot of words in my mouth.

00:20:43.480 I think I'm just, I'm just repeating what you said and I'm trying to.

00:20:45.940 You're not.

00:20:46.440 You, you, you just said that you support democracy and I said, okay, well, in our democracy,

00:20:50.940 half the states decided to severely limit or outright ban abortion.

00:20:54.820 And you said, well, you're assuming that we're a direct democracy.

00:20:57.140 I said, no, we're a representative democracy.

00:20:58.620 I didn't say that we were a direct.

00:21:00.160 I was explaining to you that we do not live in a direct democracy.

00:21:03.100 That's what I'm saying, right.

00:21:04.180 But, but then I said, right, we're a, we live in a representative democracy.

00:21:06.720 And you said, well, that's not representative of the people.

00:21:08.960 But then that, what that would mean is you support some kind of democracy in theory,

00:21:13.700 but you don't support the actual one we have here, which outlaws abortion in half the states

00:21:18.360 after Roe v. Wade is overruled.

00:21:19.900 I prefer democracy to actually genuinely represent the feelings and best interests of the people

00:21:28.100 living in that democracy.

00:21:29.120 What if 50% plus...

00:21:30.500 Every once in a while, I mean, do you believe the government, do you 100% agree with the

00:21:36.560 government of the United States on everything all the time?

00:21:39.020 No, I sometimes...

00:21:39.640 And would that mean that you hate democracy in America?

00:21:42.160 No, I think sometimes most people disagree with me.

00:21:45.200 But, but that doesn't mean that I would sacrifice my view and the rightness or, and the rightness

00:21:50.240 or wrongness of my view to the mob or something like 50% plus one.

00:21:53.560 If 50% plus one of the electorate came out and said that abortion is murder and we're going

00:21:58.040 to ban it in all circumstances, would you still support democracy?

00:22:01.300 Of course.

00:22:01.740 You would.

00:22:02.800 Democracy, democracy, um, what is that Winston Churchill quote?

00:22:07.000 That's the worst form of government other than all the other ones that have been...

00:22:09.280 Yes.

00:22:09.660 So you would support that?

00:22:10.840 Absolutely.

00:22:11.100 We just got to convince 50% plus one of the people and you would be the biggest pro-lifer

00:22:14.260 in the country, ban abortion everywhere.

00:22:16.120 I mean, I wouldn't agree with it, but I would live with it.

00:22:19.160 You would live with it, that's good.

00:22:21.100 I don't, again, I don't believe in imposing my beliefs on others.

00:22:25.260 If the majority believes that abortion is murder, then obviously I'd be forced to go along 1.00

00:22:30.720 with that.

00:22:31.020 I don't believe in political violence.

00:22:32.460 What would I do?

00:22:33.380 That would be horrifying.

00:22:34.660 No.

00:22:34.980 Great.

00:22:35.620 All right.

00:22:35.900 So I might, maybe I convinced you a little bit in my talk then.

00:22:39.060 No.

00:22:39.640 That's what it sounds like I did, but...

00:22:41.320 I just, saying that I'm not against political violence doesn't mean...

00:22:45.100 You said you would support...

00:22:46.340 I wouldn't try...

00:22:47.020 You would support the outlawing of abortion if most people wanted it.

00:22:49.140 I don't think they're saying that they would totally comply, um, with the, you know,

00:22:53.960 social acceptability of being pro-life.

00:22:57.120 I think they would still try to convince people within the marketplace of ideas what they believe in.

00:23:00.640 Okay.

00:23:00.940 So you wouldn't accept what the majority of people want.

00:23:02.820 I think when they say...

00:23:03.580 You just try to convince them otherwise.

00:23:05.000 Yes.

00:23:05.320 I think they're trying to say they wouldn't override democracy with political violence.

00:23:08.940 They're not saying that...

00:23:09.820 Oh, no one had suggested that.

00:23:11.540 Yeah.

00:23:11.820 That would have been terrible.

00:23:13.000 Demi, thank you very much.

00:23:14.740 It's great to talk to you.

00:23:15.780 Ferris.

00:23:16.140 I don't know whether or not I ultimately convinced Demi and Ferris.

00:23:20.820 I'm not sure they know yet either.

00:23:23.200 But what I am sure of is that their willingness to sit down to discuss a disagreement was much

00:23:29.020 more impressive than the university administrator's desperate attempts to keep me off campus.

00:23:34.840 As my YAF campus tour continues, I hope to find more students like Demi and Ferris who are willing

00:23:40.880 to cross the picket line to hear what conservatives think and maybe even muster the courage to talk

00:23:46.520 about these topics face-to-face.

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The Michael Knowles Show - March 30, 2024

Non-Binary： Knowles Vs Protestors ｜ Cross The Picket Line

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