Racist, Sexy, or Just Good Jeans？ Fiery DEBATE With Michael Knowles
Episode Stats
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Summary
Sydney Sweeney has great genes. Is this good or bad? Is this a racist ad? Or is it just one of the most effective ads of the last 50 years? Is it bad because it's Nazi or good because it s promiscuous and sultry?
Transcript
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She's not a porn star. She doesn't do OnlyFans.
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She's literally acting and she's making a bag doing products and sales.
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You can't differentiate that. That's very stupid.
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You can. If you're an actress and you take off your clothes and you do pornography because you're an actress, you're still a prostitute.
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Doing sex scenes, doing nude sex scenes, showing your body is naked, is pornography.
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There is only one thing that people can talk about right now.
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It's not the wars. It's not the mass migration. It's not the trade disputes.
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Is the good genes commercial bad because it's Nazi?
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Men have strong opinions, so I've brought on a bunch of women to debate this topic.
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I am joined by Melanie Mack, Emily Saves America, Savannah Stone, and Daily Wire's own Reagan Conrad.
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For those who have not yet seen the most effective commercial of the last 50 years,
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here is Sydney Sweeney selling American Apparel jeans.
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A 30-second commercial dominating international news for an entire week.
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Here is just a little smattering of what people are seeing on TV, the internet, everywhere in between.
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And the tagline is, Sydney Sweeney has great genes.
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Now, in one ad, the blonde-haired, blue-eyed actress talks about genes as in DNA being passed down from her parents.
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The play on words is being compared to Nazi propaganda with racial undertones.
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Genes are passed down from parents to offspring, often determined in traits like hair, color, personality, and even eye color.
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Hey, American Eagle, now do black and brown women.
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Because black and brown women also have great genes that they inherit from their parents.
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And it would not have mattered one bit if a person of color was in the room because this message was not intended for us.
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It's actually one of the only good mainstream commercials I've seen in quite a long time.
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You watch it and you're like, okay, I like this.
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But it's funny because, like, this brand is very mainstream.
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If you look at smaller brands, they do great marketing like this all the time.
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Look, I've been raised in the last five years on Jaguar ads, okay?
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So I haven't seen a bubbly, cute girl in, I don't know, 10 years probably at this point.
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I've seen androgynous weirdos trying to sell me every product under the sun.
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So, yes, I admit there's something refreshing about it.
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That was a big reach, but I still don't support it.
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I don't support propping Sidney Sweeney as some American conservative icon,
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especially when the longer version of the ad shows her dressing and putting the jeans on
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and her top is open while she has no bra or anything underneath.
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So it's just, it's liberal, not from the 90s and 2000s.
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It's definitely not conservative or anything to be celebrated.
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Sidney Sweeney in general, we know that she unapologetically promotes lustful content,
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She did this Sasquatch ad selling her bathwater with bars of soap with holes in it so that men
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Let's not pretend like this is some conservative victory that Sidney Sweeney is being propped
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But first, you have to go to hillsdale.edu slash Knowles.
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Gets tossed around like confetti at a political rally.
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You hear it pretty much anywhere people gather to debate the issues of the day.
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But here's the thing, when someone drops that phrase, do you just nod along and take
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Or have you ever actually cracked open the Constitution yourself to see what all the fuss
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That is why I am thrilled about Hillsdale College's brand new free online course called The Federalist.
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You know those Federalist papers everyone references, but few have actually read, penned by Alexander
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Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay, to explain how our Constitution creates a government strong
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enough to protect our rights, yet safe enough to trust with power.
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I remember when I was an undergraduate, I got to meet Scalia, and Scalia said, how many
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Hillsdale, one of the premier institutions of higher learning in the country right now.
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Hillsdale.edu slash Knowles, K-N-A-W-L-E-S, to enroll for free.
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I was, I was defend, I agree with basically everything you've said, and that's been my
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take on it too, but I've been defending Sidney Sweeney as, yeah, she's, you know, she shows
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a little cleavage, but what, what with the soap?
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I don't care if like there's a girl that's, you know, wears a bikini at the beach or who's
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just pretty or shows a little cleavage, but that's not the case with Sidney Sweeney.
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In her history with movies, she's done pornographic type scenes, which is, what's the difference
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between that and an OnlyFans model that she gets paid more than most of them?
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There's been advertisements for more movies that she's doing.
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Oh, there's a threesome lesbian scene with Sidney Sweeney.
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And then you've got people who, conservative influencers.
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It's just like, clearly the Sasquatch ad, she sold a limited quantity of bath soaps with
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And there was a hole in the center of them because it was meant for degenerate men to
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use those bars of soap as a sex toy that had her bath water in it.
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Hey, is the commercial in itself in an isolated way bad?
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It could have been any other girl, but this isn't a conservative win propping Sidney Sweeney
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Supposedly, there's a movie coming out where she has a lesbian threesome in it.
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I just remember headlines just all over the place on social media about that about a year
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But she definitely has done pornographic scenes in movies and stuff before.
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This is somebody who uses her sexuality to market herself.
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And it's like, that's not something that conservatives should be, that's not somebody
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This isn't just some girl who's pretty and cute and just shows a little cleavage.
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This is actually somebody who really pivots into that.
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Emily, you're rolling your eyes and sighing heavily.
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I just, this is like the, with takes like these, I'm just like, I'm, I assume conservatives
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are just obsessed with killing their own movement and losing the next election.
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You, it's like every time we have a little bit of a win, it's people take it to the extreme.
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And then it's like, oh, this is why people hate us and we can't have anything.
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She's literally acting and she's making a bag doing products and sales.
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If you can't differentiate that, that's very stupid.
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If you're an actress and you take off your clothes and you do pornography because you're
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Doing nude sex scenes showing your body is naked is pornography.
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You also don't know how the movement industry works with those exact scenes.
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I haven't seen the scenes and I don't intend to go see the scenes.
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But if she's, you know, going fully nude and she's doing sex scenes or something, doesn't
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It's like a little, it's at least porn adjacent, isn't it?
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And if you can't separate those things, that's a bigger issue.
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If someone says, if someone says I'm a Hollywood.
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If somebody says I'm a Hollywood actor or actress and I'm not a porn person and I'm just going
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to go do movies, but I'm going to do nude sex scenes that don't leave anything to the
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imagination, then what's the distinction between that and going to some seedy setup in Chatsworth
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Money, contracts, a room full of people, making sure you're safe.
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The fact that most of the time it's film, it's like crazy.
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Porn has contracts and money and rooms full of people.
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This is just like a conservative talking point.
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If you don't think she's a little bit above that, you think that's what she's going to do?
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Listen, we're getting too, we're being too harsh on Sydney before we bring in Savannah
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You're really, Melanie, you're actually really coloring my view.
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I was more pro-Sydney before you started making these arguments.
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I mean, I don't think an ad for jeans is setting us back to 1930s Germany.
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And I also think that, you know, the radical left is so addicted to outrage, being outraged
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Listen, just from some personal experience, I grew up modeling.
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But back in 2020, during the Biden administration, I was told by my agent that I would never book
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the big jobs because they were so focused on diversity and they didn't want a skinny brunette
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And so now I think it's a win for the conservative movement.
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I mean, I personally want to see attractive people when I'm online shopping because whenever
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I went on Victoria's Secret and it was all obese, unfortunate looking people, that does
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That does not make me want to buy clothes because I can't look at a woman who's over 200 pounds
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and say, wow, that's that's going to look good on me as a petite woman.
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So, yeah, I think I think that she's very sexual, but I also think that she's the next
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Marilyn Monroe and the conservative movement is not going to win if we're constantly saying,
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I think the soap ad was a little far because she said something like little boys come in
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Well, when you've got a moral foundation and you and you you it's not about winning people
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Whether the whole world disagrees with you or not, we can't be promoting lust.
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That doesn't mean that it's OK for that's not OK for women to be beautiful and attractive
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But to say, oh, we're not going to win if we don't accept women owning their sexuality.
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It's not a win for conservatism if we're just pushing old liberal talking points.
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Here's somebody who clearly pivots on the sexual stuff.
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This is where it was from last year, where she and Anna de Armas agree on doing a threesome
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That was what was going on in the articles about this lesbian threesome and all this
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Here's somebody who clearly pushes degenerate, sinful ideologies.
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And hey, if you're not a Christian and you're just a conservative without those Christian
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values, of course, this stuff's going to be celebrated because it's all a matter of what
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But conservatism, in my opinion, should be rooted in biblical values because you have
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You're basically a liberal if you don't have your foundation of biblical values.
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You know, I think that there's this line of, is it a win because it's not woke?
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You know, because I think the second that something is not woke, we're excited, we're
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It's like, finally, we're not just being force fed, non-binary they, thems, advertising
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Obviously, we want to see beautiful women, beautiful men modeling things, right?
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So that's kind of, I'm glad in that sense, it's a win.
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But then we have to look at it through a different lens.
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I first watched it and I was like, okay, you know, finally, she's hot.
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I think that one's kind of the, you know, the most tame out of all of them.
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And I think that that's an important thing to note because if we're just watching the
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But the other ones, you know, when it focuses down on her chest and then she goes, excuse
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That's, it's obviously, there's more innuendo there.
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And I think that's important to note when we're talking about this.
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We don't want to, you know, say, oh, well, we can't, I get there.
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There's that balance we have to find, but there is that sense of, especially, you know,
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coming from a Christian, is that something that I think is a win for that movement?
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That's a victory, but we don't want to go into that degeneracy that obviously it's, you
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know, Sydney's not being crazy degenerate, but it's that line that we have to find
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You know, I was just actually watching, literally this morning, Urban Decay just had a new advertisement.
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I don't know if you guys have seen this yet, but it's a girl.
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Michael, it's for the best that you don't, haven't seen this, but this is a girl.
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So her advertisement, sexual innuendo, same thing.
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It literally same cut of a shirt, same amount of cleavage showing.
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If we're getting specific, because that's what we're talking about here.
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And she's talking to camera about, you know, buy the makeup and don't be censored.
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And there's, there's this obviously innuendo again happening.
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And I watched that and I was like, okay, if I'm going to celebrate the Sydney Sweeney
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element of this and I've watched the exact same thing, the difference is that this girl
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is an OF star, but what I'm visually looking at is very similar.
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And that made me feel even more of like, okay, this isn't a win.
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Cause if we're going to, if we're talking about conservatives, the new, another woke
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thing would be celebrating OF stars because that's what Urban Decay is doing.
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And then you have the conservative celebrating that.
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And I think this is, look, I agree that it's better to have like beautiful women selling
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in, in cool cars, selling products than some androgynous weirdo on Mars selling me a Jaguar.
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I mean, it was a perfectly fine year, but is there, Emily, I guess this question is really
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Are we as conservatives just trying to get back to the nineties or is there something
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deeper that we're trying to conserve and restore?
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I think we're just trying to conserve and restore just sanity.
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No, normal American girls cannot relate to a, like Savannah said, a 200 pound mixed race,
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When I'm buying makeup, when I'm buying skincare, when I'm buying clothing, I want them to look
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like someone I would either like to look like, or maybe like me.
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We'd rather see Sydney Sweeney than all these other people we've seen for years have been
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shoved down our throat because it's not relatable.
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And I also think it's positive to have girls looking up to girls that are like actually beautiful
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The women that have been pushed on us have been extremely masculine.
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I think we should just promote good looking people.
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Like I said, look, if I have to watch movies and TV shows and there's going to be sex scenes,
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I think that's normal and what most of America wants.
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But when conservatives are having meltdowns in the same way liberals are having meltdowns
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about this, then it kind of just pushes us back a little bit further.
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Melanie, are you, are you having a breakdown like a liberal?
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I think that Christians absolutely need to have standards, but this is just a matter
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of secular people in the conservative movement.
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They're going to disagree with Christians in the conservative movement, but with Christian
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values, I mean, we absolutely should be standing against this stuff.
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The over-sexualization is part of the slippery slope.
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I use a lot of lingo, but that's why, that's why we get.
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All of this stuff because it is a slippery slope.
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And it's just like, yeah, you want to say this is a win?
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Well, Satan parades himself as an angel of light.
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This is, Satan doesn't care if you're a liberal or you're a Republican, but what he does care
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is if you're celebrating degeneracy, if you're celebrating perversion.
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Oh, things got so extreme at one point that now we're going to go back and we're going
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And that's okay because it's not as extreme as this perversion while you're still accepting
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Now, again, I don't think that all of those ads with Sidney Sweeney were egregious.
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The one with her with a car, very tame, not a huge deal, but they did get more sexual.
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And then, again, I just don't like to see conservatives hail Sidney Sweeney as some sort of
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Yeah, so the point you keep coming back to is, you know, a conservatism is either going
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to be Christian and go all the way and not be inciting lust and not appealing to the
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prurient interest and not just being this kind of like barstool boomer conservatism of
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like, you know, eating potato chips and howling at girls, or it's going to be liberalism.
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And we're always going to be just trailing the liberals five years behind.
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It's conservatism will always just be liberals from five or 10 years ago, unless we go to
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We don't have to take it any further than that.
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If conservatism is not Christian, then it's not conservatism anymore.
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Well, and I think the two can exist at both times, right?
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I mean, like Emily said, yeah, I mean, in every single movie, like her tits are out.
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But at the same time, I'm really glad to see an attractive blonde hair, blue eyed woman
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back on ads because we didn't have that for so long.
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For so long, we had to deal with black queens and black is king and, you know, white people
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suck and go sit in your white privilege and cry about it.
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And I'm just glad that we have attractive people back on ads.
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So that's why it's a win in my book, regardless of if she's being over-sexualized.
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Look, people are always going to over-sexualize certain celebrities.
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There's always going to be celebrities that take that to their advantage and they make a
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ton of money from it, no matter how much Christians try to stand up for it.
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So as Christians, yeah, we can say, look, part of the ad was a little bit over-sexualized.
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The camera down to her chest and then her saying eyes up here.
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But from a macro perspective, I am just glad that woke is dead and that we're seeing attractive
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So I like that Sydney Sweeney is quite beautiful.
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I like that they're putting her in ads rather than like these weirdo kind of mutilated eunuchs
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So that's better than appealing to sex in an unnatural way.
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But as conservatives, shouldn't we be promoting modesty or no?
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Or Emily, is that or am I just preaching like a church lady and I'm going to lose the
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No, I'm one of the few Republicans that I'm like, you guys don't have to label me as a
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conservative, but I'm not religious, which I think a lot more people relate to me than
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they relate to the people that are religious because I can see nuance.
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But I'm like, yeah, like we're people are so sexualized now.
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The odds of us being able to wring that back, unfortunately, are very unlikely.
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I also think you can just be feminine and beautiful and at the same time sexy.
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I think it's awful because when when I was liberal, when people shamed me and use terminology
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like that, it pushed me more into being a liberal than just being like, hey, actually just be
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Be yourself like you can wear sexy things without being sexual.
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And like, I don't see her as an overly sexual girl.
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How can you wear sexy things without being sexual?
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But can you wear, you know, you're going out in a mini skirt with like a crop top on.
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And because the way I look and also my weight and the way I carry myself, it's not extremely
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Whereas if you were to have big fake boobs pushed up with crazy hair and makeup, it looks
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I mean, that's also style and a bunch of different things that go along with that.
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But it's like, I don't think having to like suppress this makes any sense.
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And also like when you use Christianity for every single argument, a lot of the country
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So they're immediately going to not listen to what you have to say.
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That's why I come at it from a very different perspective.
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We're still a majority Christian country, though, of different flavors of Christianity.
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And listen, even if there were only one Christian in the country, I mean, if you think it's the
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truth, the truth is the truth regardless, even if you stand alone.
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I just wonder, look, as the only man on this panel, let me mansplain a little bit what's
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I see an ad with, you know, wacky gender bending people, and I find that repulsive.
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So I am relieved when I see an ad with a beautiful person.
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And the fact that in this case, Sidney Sweeney is like showing a little skin or whatever is
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Not that I'm nauseated like I was the first time.
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But now I find myself looking at the Sidney Sweeney ad, you know, maybe the less wholesome
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And maybe I do a little double take or a triple take.
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All of a sudden, I got to have custody of my eyes and say, hey, I don't want to be thinking
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I don't want to sin in my thoughts and my words and what I do or fail to do.
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Do we want to be getting the young guys or even the elderly 35-year-old guys like me
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Well, I'm glad you can control yourself with all these sexual visuals going around.
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And I hope all men learn to control themselves because that is what separates us from animals.
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And I think that's a lot more important of people controlling themselves and being decent
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humans than this girl who has naturally great, fantastic.
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But shouldn't women control themselves, too, and dress in a modest and respectable way?
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They shouldn't be trying to lead people to lust.
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It's not just, oh, I'm going to act like a prostitute and it's all the men's fault.
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You know, men can over-sexualize anything, even if there is modesty.
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But it's the woman's fault if she is purposefully acting and dressing and in a way to elicit lust.
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And let's not pretend like that isn't the case with Sidney Sweeney and what she does and what
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And it's not even my concern about winning the culture war.
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My concern is standing for the truth, even if I'm the only person standing for the truth.
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So it doesn't matter if, oh, this is going to push more people away because they aren't
00:25:24.700
Well, my goal as a Christian is to share the word of God with the world.
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The people who accept it are going to the people who don't, won't.
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But I'm going to stand for the truth and I'm going to stand for what's important, regardless
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As someone who is a commentator in the right wing space, my goal is to win the culture war
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And my goal is always going to be to win elections.
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That way, I don't have to listen to how Dylan Mulvaney is woman of the year for four years.
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No, but isn't, I think Melanie's point is that it would be a Pyrrhic victory.
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I think Melanie's point is you can win, if you think that the way you win the culture
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war is by behaving like a liberal from the 90s or 2000s and saying, look, it's a new day
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and we can't go back to how conservatives used to be.
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So we're going to win by promoting lusty sexuality and fornication and secularism and
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Haven't you just won a Pyrrhic victory for the people who were supposed to be your opponents?
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She probably made them what, a couple hundred million maybe?
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Okay, so all the liberals had to do was to get really extreme and then they made conservatives
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Next, are they going to just push bestiality and we're going to see furries in every ad and so
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now conservatives are going to embrace Dylan Mulvaney because at least it's a human.
00:26:59.880
You know, I just, I think we already know that sex sells.
00:27:02.200
So there's nothing revolutionary here in the fact that this is, you know, they earned
00:27:08.440
Now the question is, again, what is the conservative's job?
00:27:11.000
Are we conserving what was 10, 15, frankly, 20, 30 years ago?
00:27:15.180
Or are we trying to also, in addition to conserving what is good and right, also then try to be
00:27:25.940
Is that as if I'm trying to think like a conservative, I'm trying to think of what is that future
00:27:30.060
And frankly, I don't think that is an inherent win.
00:27:33.720
Like Emily was saying, you know, we don't want to be the prudes.
00:27:36.100
We don't want to be the ones that just lose culture completely because we're unwilling
00:27:41.280
But at the same time, there are the biblical truths or truths that I believe in that kind
00:27:44.680
of over, not kind of, they do oversee that and finding that balance.
00:27:48.660
I think that's the, especially as a conservative Christian, that's that balance we have to
00:27:52.760
And again, I go back then to the OF star that did the exact, very similar ad days before.
00:27:59.700
There's something, there's other things besides, again, just winning woke that we have to talk
00:28:04.000
And we know that another issue within wokeism is OF and is promiscuity and that they're pushing,
00:28:09.720
they're force-feeding us that as well, in addition to the non-binary.
00:28:12.360
So we win the non-binaries, we have to still win the OF and get that gone.
00:28:18.180
And so I think there's two conversations that can be had.
00:28:24.500
I mean, you know, prudence is the chief political virtue.
00:28:32.740
Like your point, Emily, you say, look, I want to win elections and I'm with you.
00:28:35.740
The winners go to Washington, the losers go home.
00:28:52.220
I think we're trying to win everything across the board.
00:28:58.440
I mean, it will, like the past four years have been insane.
00:29:01.800
I mean, when it comes to Sidney Sweeney, like I have talked about, and I'm not scared to talk
00:29:05.880
about it, the like anti-white hate against the country.
00:29:08.880
The way like if you're a blonde, white, beautiful woman, apparently all of us come from money
00:29:14.740
And we deserve to be taken out of everything, movies, commercials.
00:29:26.360
That's why I'm like, if we can see ads like this and see beautiful white women in movies
00:29:29.800
and models who actually should have jobs modeling, like not everything's supposed to be inclusive.
00:29:35.200
And I think we can get back to more of a normal place.
00:29:37.440
And I think that's better for young girls to grow up.
00:29:39.640
I'd rather my daughter looking at Sidney Sweeney in a commercial than freaking Dylan Mulvaney.
00:29:45.000
But also, I just want things to be more normal.
00:29:49.340
And also, just to jump in there, I don't think those aren't the only two options, though.
00:29:58.940
And what I'm trying to say is that there can also be elegance.
00:30:01.300
And we can make that cool again if we're using the phrases.
00:30:15.060
I'm not calling for a full burqa, but a tasteful abaya is not the worst thing.
00:30:22.360
It's like, oh, if you don't agree with me, then, oh, we're bringing Sharia law.
00:30:25.280
It's like, oh, let's go to the extremes when that's not what we're saying at all.
00:30:29.840
It's like, well, a man could think you with your chest and shoulders out is sexual.
00:30:33.060
So as a good Christian, why don't you cover yourself then?
00:30:38.380
Like, there's so much room for nuance, but you don't leave any.
00:30:47.920
This Sydney Sweeney discussion isn't a nuanced thing.
00:30:50.720
This is somebody who actually sells sex toy soaps.
00:30:53.540
If it's just like, oh, okay, you have a problem with my tattoos.
00:30:57.780
That's a discussion I'm willing to have with you.
00:30:59.940
But this is a more nuanced situation than somebody advertising sex soaps.
00:31:05.480
Yeah, and also, again, I'm just saying to believe that we can't do even better than Sydney Sweeney with her tits out is, that's not true for society.
00:31:14.660
And I'm saying that we can do better than that, too, in the future.
00:31:28.160
Savannah, you're the most covered up person on this panel.
00:31:30.960
I don't see even a square inch of your shoulders.
00:31:33.360
Do you think that these calls for modesty are going to herald Sharia law?
00:31:38.960
I mean, listen, I think modesty is really subjective in today's day and age.
00:31:42.860
Somebody could look at me wearing a tank top just because my shoulders are out and say, well, that's not modest.
00:31:47.700
But then I could ask my husband, hey, do you think this is modest enough?
00:31:51.220
And he could say, yeah, I mean, all that's out is your shoulders.
00:31:56.960
If I'm wearing a tank top, they say that I'm not covered up enough as a Christian.
00:32:00.460
So, I think it's a heart posture when it comes to modesty.
00:32:03.940
If I'm purposely dressing and thinking in my head, okay, all of these men are going to lust after me when I go out.
00:32:10.440
And they're all going to think that my tits look good and whatever.
00:32:13.600
Then that would be a problem because that's a heart posture.
00:32:18.580
You could be someone who just posts a video of you talking with your face on Instagram.
00:32:24.020
And if you're an attractive woman, you're going to get sexualized.
00:32:34.160
I think there's too much outrage on both sides.
00:32:37.660
I mean, we have such bigger issues to talk about than a Sydney Sweeney ad.
00:32:44.060
All I'm saying is that I'm glad that white, beautiful women are back in ads because I personally dealt with it.
00:32:49.820
I have so many friends who are models who lost jobs, who pretty much lost their career from 2020 to 2024 because they were not getting booked for things because they had blonde hair, blue eyes, and they were white and petite.
00:33:10.720
And it's just a dumb thing to get mad about, in my opinion.
00:33:14.020
Listen, I'm going to synthesize all of these points.
00:33:17.400
I think the Sydney Sweeney ad is a step in the right direction.
00:33:21.520
I welcome Sydney Sweeney to become a great card-carrying member of the American right, especially if she sticks with the first ad and maybe not with the later ads, you know, because modesty is all right.
00:33:33.080
And there are a lot of reasons to criticize Muslims, but the tasteful headscarves are not one of them.
00:33:43.040
This is Melanie and Reagan, really, versus Emily and Savannah.
00:33:50.660
I apparently don't know anything about pop culture.
00:33:53.620
So I'll stick with my Costco soap and see all of you later.