The Michael Knowles Show - Right Wing Civil War：＂Israel & Economy Crisis＂ HEATED Debate With Michael Knowles ｜ Bar Fight

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00:01:00.000 You think Trump is a schmuck. 1.00

00:01:04.460 He was born in Texas. Why was it that he flew over to Israel and was told that he was at home? 1.00

00:01:08.920 Can the United States act morally and justly in the world while defending Israel? 1.00

00:01:17.940 If your tactics were, to be blunt, a little less douchey at times.

00:01:21.820 I mean, I completely disagree.

00:01:23.280 No, no, no, no, no, no. Do not pence me, bro.

00:01:25.860 We have the host of the Steve Dace show.

00:01:28.240 And that would be my friend, Steve Dace.

00:01:30.080 When you look at the facts on the ground and they don't support the narrative.

00:01:33.700 When we are throwing our weight.

00:01:34.480 Hold on, when we are, we're literally signing the greatest law.

00:01:37.500 Hold on, hold on.

00:01:38.280 Also to my left, you know him from Jubilee.

00:01:41.520 And that would be Kai Schwemmer.

00:01:42.740 An existing law which had banned premarital sex.

00:01:45.180 Welcome everyone to a very special edition of Bar Fight.

00:01:52.800 We are here at AmFest filled with many of the most energetic, patriotic, good-looking conservatives in the entire country.

00:02:01.260 This is the show where I, Michael Knowles, go head-to-head with two esteemed combatants on topics chosen by you.

00:02:08.480 Until this episode.

00:02:10.080 Because usually I would be debating two liberals on all of these topics.

00:02:14.140 But with AmFest on, there is not a single liberal within 150 miles of Phoenix.

00:02:19.220 And yet, there is probably more debating going on at AmFest this year than at any other event in the country.

00:02:26.320 Left, right, or center.

00:02:27.440 Because the American right finds itself in the midst of a civil war.

00:02:31.900 A battle for the future of the conservative movement.

00:02:34.660 A battle between the old right and the new right.

00:02:36.860 The boomers and the zoomers and the millennials and Gen X. 0.99

00:02:40.400 Debates over foreign policy.

00:02:42.240 Economic policy.

00:02:43.180 Migration.

00:02:44.640 Everything in the middle.

00:02:46.100 To my left, we have the host of the Steve Dace show.

00:02:49.700 Author of A Nefarious Plot.

00:02:52.000 And a Gen X conservative par excellence.

00:02:55.020 I already gave away his name.

00:02:56.520 That would be my friend, Steve Dace.

00:02:58.740 Thank you, brother.

00:02:59.680 Appreciate it to see you.

00:03:00.780 You bet.

00:03:01.040 Also to my left, you know him from Jubilee.

00:03:05.380 A man young enough to be my son if I had had a child at 13.

00:03:09.580 That would be Kai Schwimmer.

00:03:10.580 Thank you.

00:03:13.380 Glad to be here.

00:03:14.800 Here is how it works.

00:03:16.680 We will be debating three of the most controversial topics tearing up the right right now.

00:03:21.580 Israel, immigration, and economics.

00:03:24.380 The bell rings.

00:03:25.660 We duke it out for that round.

00:03:27.300 Then our friends in the crowd can come up to the microphones to pick a fight with any of us.

00:03:31.840 But do not wait.

00:03:32.820 Because there is a time limit for each round.

00:03:36.220 Gentlemen, are you ready?

00:03:37.680 Ready.

00:03:38.260 Yes, sir.

00:03:38.640 Let's get started.

00:03:39.460 Okay.

00:03:40.740 Round one.

00:03:44.620 Okay.

00:03:45.540 Round one.

00:03:46.760 Our first topic.

00:03:48.080 The claim is America should support the state of Israel.

00:03:55.360 Steve, you want to take it?

00:03:57.000 100% America should support the state of Israel.

00:03:59.560 And I'm not going to give you any boomer era evangelical slogans.

00:04:03.460 I'm not going to take Genesis 12-3 completely out of historical Christian context to appease

00:04:09.200 John Nelson Darby and the dispensationalist of the 1860s.

00:04:12.560 I'm just going to look at history, Mike.

00:04:14.300 I mean, for 1,300 years, we had no nation of Israel, but we had Islam. 0.96

00:04:19.000 This idea that our relationship with Israel is inciting Islam is an ignorant view of history.

00:04:25.420 Because for the 1,300 years we had Islam and no Israel, Islam just came after Christendom instead. 0.99

00:04:31.420 If anything, the nation of Israel is a deflector shield. 0.73

00:04:34.240 It's acting as a cudgel.

00:04:35.560 It's redirecting some of the Islamic energy that historically has been targeted at the West

00:04:40.180 and Christendom, and it's targeted at them as well.

00:04:42.680 And then I'll add one more point.

00:04:44.360 What would Trump's negotiating leverage be with countries like Saudi Arabia to get them to the table

00:04:48.820 if there were no Jewish state to threaten them with?

00:04:51.080 If there were no Jewish state to say, you know what, if you guys don't want to come to the table,

00:04:54.960 I guess we'll give Israel all the weapon systems we haven't given them yet just to make the fight even. 0.99

00:04:59.080 It gives Trump a crucial bargaining chip to make some of the deals in the Middle East that you have seen.

00:05:04.860 And so I think the case is closed.

00:05:06.600 Now, it's not an absolute.

00:05:07.860 We put our own interests first.

00:05:09.340 But I think the case is closed before we even talk about the Bible or eschatology.

00:05:14.600 Kai?

00:05:15.160 I mean, I completely disagree, I think.

00:05:16.860 Look, we have this unconditional support that we are providing Israel,

00:05:20.540 and I don't think that they are one of our vassals and we're being able to use them as this force for our geopolitical aims.

00:05:28.380 What I see is that Israel is consistently undermining even the efforts of President Trump to establish peace in the region

00:05:33.480 so much that when you have the vice president, the man one heartbeat away from the presidency,

00:05:39.040 in Israel there's a vote held regarding something that President Trump has already said is absolutely off the table,

00:05:44.980 the annexation of the West Bank.

00:05:46.180 That is absolutely undermining the United States authority, what the stated position of the president is.

00:05:51.460 And I also think that Israel knows they can use U.S. support, which has been largely unconditional,

00:05:56.040 in order to involve us in foreign conflicts where we don't have to be.

00:05:58.740 Look at the Iran conflict.

00:05:59.880 Israel knows they were not going to be able to destroy nuclear enrichment sites in Iran if it were not for the help of the United States.

00:06:06.220 They bet on that.

00:06:07.140 And they abused their relationship with the United States to draw us in.

00:06:10.540 And, you know, God bless.

00:06:12.220 I hope that that conflict does not endure any longer.

00:06:14.380 I hope it has not started back up.

00:06:16.100 But I think that is a sleeping giant.

00:06:17.540 And I think Israel is counting on our involvement because they see our relationship with them as unconditional.

00:06:22.560 I think that the events of what actually transpired in June, with all due respect, contradict everything that he just said.

00:06:30.080 We actually saw Arab states fly drones to shoot down Iranian missiles aimed at Israel in the aftermath of that event.

00:06:37.020 I can understand why there were concerns going in.

00:06:40.020 I mean, I discussed with Charlie privately his concern of this war spilling over into a multi-regional conflict.

00:06:46.440 But now we have proof of concept.

00:06:48.720 You know, you mentioned the vice president.

00:06:50.060 He said something interesting.

00:06:51.240 He says a lot of things interesting.

00:06:52.740 But one thing that kind of percolated to me, especially since Tucker Carlson is one of his best friends,

00:06:56.720 is when he said, you know, there were a lot of people who claimed prior to what the president did to Iran that it was going to have a spillover in the region.

00:07:04.340 And none of that happened.

00:07:05.480 And you would think maybe those people would go back and reevaluate how they were wrong.

00:07:08.980 And instead, they just continue with their own narrative. 1.00

00:07:11.280 Instead, what we saw for that to be true means that you think Trump, to borrow a Jewish term, is a schmuck. 1.00

00:07:16.360 That means that you think that Israel is the one pimping Trump and the tail wags the dog. 0.99

00:07:21.760 The reality is, if Israel had done that event, had done the operation against Iran that it did, and it sucked, 0.66

00:07:27.900 you know what Trump would have said?

00:07:29.060 I'm not wasting any of my political capital on that.

00:07:31.460 You're on your own.

00:07:32.320 But because the op that they did was precise and devastating, he was willing to do what he said,

00:07:37.940 which was essentially provide the winning blow.

00:07:40.580 And notice, we are arguing way more about this than the Arab world is. 0.73

00:07:45.120 Have you noticed this, Michael?

00:07:46.020 The American right is arguing, has way more consternation about Gaza than what they do in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan.

00:07:54.000 Why is that?

00:07:54.940 And it makes you kind of think that maybe there's another agenda at work here when you look at the facts on the ground,

00:08:00.900 and they don't support the narrative.

00:08:02.780 Steve, I think if I could tell you exactly why we're talking about this so much,

00:08:05.780 it's because our unconditional support for Israel is undermining our position as a moral and just actor on the world stage.

00:08:11.580 When we are literally signing the greatest arguments we ever have, ever.

00:08:18.040 This is a very important point, and I notice it's a shift.

00:08:21.080 So right out the gate, Steve, you knock down what I think is the caricature argument of the pro-Israel side and the weakest argument.

00:08:28.360 Namely, you know, the Bible tells us we need to be slaves to the nation-state of Israel, and, you know, it's our religious duty or whatever. 0.75

00:08:34.900 And you say, put that aside, I'm only speaking in nuts and bolts American interest, and made a good argument.

00:08:39.100 Now, you made your side of that argument, but now you're shifting it again into a moral question.

00:08:46.620 Can the United States act morally and justly in the world while defending Israel? 1.00

00:08:52.020 Go ahead.

00:08:52.720 I think, rather than shift, I'd actually like to stick, Steve, to what you were saying.

00:08:56.860 I think that absolutely the United States does things that are not in the United States' interest,

00:09:00.300 but are actually more so an extension of what the policy that Zionists in the United States and also the state of Israel would encourage,

00:09:07.240 and that is anti-Semitism laws, cracking down on hate speech, and even making illegal the burning of a flag.

00:09:12.980 What flag was that?

00:09:13.720 It was the Israeli flag, even prior to the illegality, through executive order passed by President Trump, of the burning of the American flag.

00:09:21.600 Why do we have that idea in our politics that it is okay to pass laws only first if they are in defense of a foreign nation?

00:09:29.520 And to the point, by the way, that we're assembled around this war in the right wing, here's the question.

00:09:35.300 There is a conflict in the right wing concerning support for Israel.

00:09:37.920 We have one side that is saying, I will not support the right wing if it continues this posture with the relationship to a foreign nation.

00:09:43.920 Now, I see those people as people who want to prioritize American interests,

00:09:47.500 but you have a second party that says that I will retreat from the Republican Party.

00:09:51.420 I will even demolish it if it stops supporting a foreign nation. 1.00

00:09:54.280 Now, which one of those two voices do you think is more concerned with what's best for America?

00:09:57.760 The one that's willing to break the coalition for a foreign country's best interest,

00:10:01.240 or the one that's trying to preserve this country's best interest?

00:10:04.100 I've never advocated for any form of anti-Semitism laws.

00:10:06.840 In fact, when this was proposed on a federal level early last year,

00:10:11.700 in response to what the left was doing on college campuses,

00:10:14.560 the way I read the bill, you could actually say the New Testament is anti-Semitic.

00:10:19.160 And I remember the Anti-Defamation League tried to stop Mel Gibson's The Passion from being released

00:10:23.700 because it was a faithful adaptation of the gospel,

00:10:26.140 according to the gospel of Matthew.

00:10:29.360 What I'm advocating is for America interests. 0.68

00:10:31.920 And again, I think...

00:10:32.820 Doesn't sound like it.

00:10:33.780 When guys like you have this position, just be honest. 1.00

00:10:36.620 You think Trump is a schmuck. 0.99

00:10:38.440 So you guys don't want to say that because the minute you criticize Trump, 1.00

00:10:41.800 all the ratios go down.

00:10:43.060 All the incisions go down.

00:10:44.760 But Trump is the one doing this stuff.

00:10:47.020 You're saying that Trump is essentially getting pimped out by Israel.

00:10:50.200 And so you're bypassing Trump to blame Israel.

00:10:53.880 But really, Trump is the commander-in-chief in the White House.

00:10:56.560 So he's the one making the policies that you claim to disagree with,

00:11:00.160 unless you think that he's the John and they're the pimp.

00:11:03.500 You get to respond.

00:11:04.620 I appreciate that.

00:11:05.480 Well, I think you're a little bit right. 0.98

00:11:07.020 I think we do look like schmucks when we allow spies 0.93

00:11:09.780 who are Navy intelligence agents in the United States, 0.93

00:11:12.800 like Jonathan Pollard,

00:11:13.900 to meet with the foreign ambassador to Israel.

00:11:15.920 And then when we have Carolyn Levitt say

00:11:17.500 that the president stands with his foreign ambassador, 0.99

00:11:20.040 I think we do look like schmucks to let a spy 0.99

00:11:22.040 who was selling secrets to a foreign government 1.00

00:11:23.860 come onto our soil. 0.96

00:11:25.340 He was born in Texas.

00:11:26.700 Why was it that he flew over to Israel

00:11:28.260 and was told that he was at home?

00:11:30.040 I think that does sound like there are foreign interests

00:11:32.300 that come before our own here in America.

00:11:34.460 Okay.

00:11:35.220 Now we open it up to questions.

00:11:36.960 Or comments or concerns.

00:11:38.380 I have all of them.

00:11:40.200 All right.

00:11:40.920 If Christianity is going to outlive this moment right now 0.99

00:11:44.320 where there is like a surge of interest in Christianity,

00:11:46.680 is the future Roman Catholic or is it Protestant?

00:11:50.260 What about Mormons?

00:11:50.940 Hold on, hold on.

00:11:51.980 That's not Christianity at all. 0.99

00:11:53.840 I don't know about that.

00:11:54.400 Not the same team.

00:11:55.440 Different team.

00:11:56.600 Okay. 0.53

00:11:57.360 But is there more that Protestants need to steal from Catholics 1.00

00:12:01.200 or more that the Catholics need to go back 0.99

00:12:03.380 and relearn from the Reformation?

00:12:04.940 Well, listen, I love the Reformation

00:12:08.280 because it gave us the counter-Reformation.

00:12:10.800 So I do have an answer to this, and it's not my own.

00:12:14.700 It comes from Alexei de Tocqueville,

00:12:16.460 who, as far as I'm concerned,

00:12:17.900 is the greatest analyst ever of American democracy,

00:12:21.320 wrote Democracy in America.

00:12:22.700 And in a little quoted but important observation

00:12:25.940 in Volume 2 of Democracy in America,

00:12:28.300 Tocqueville makes this shocking prediction.

00:12:31.040 He says, yeah, America is a Protestant country.

00:12:33.580 It looks like it.

00:12:34.500 But over time, it's going to go one of two ways.

00:12:37.140 It's going to go atheist or it's going to go Catholic, 0.98

00:12:40.000 both of which would have seemed absurd at the time.

00:12:42.600 And his argument was that America is a democracy,

00:12:45.600 and in democracies, people hate authority,

00:12:47.560 so they want to get rid of religion.

00:12:49.040 But if they're going to keep religion,

00:12:51.180 they want it to be a uniform religion,

00:12:53.440 a universal religion that applies equally to all.

00:12:56.780 And there, the answer would be the Catholic Church.

00:12:58.900 So he predicted a bunch of Catholics in America. 0.93

00:13:00.960 And I might have called him crazy even 15 years ago.

00:13:04.960 I'm seeing a lot of people swim the Tiber.

00:13:07.100 That's all I'm saying.

00:13:08.020 That's all I'm saying.

00:13:08.960 Gentlemen?

00:13:10.320 I think America needs to be a biblical nation. 0.78

00:13:12.640 I think that ultimately the word of God

00:13:16.740 is the rock upon which Western civilization was built.

00:13:20.540 And I think that what you're seeing right now,

00:13:22.900 and I think this started with Charlie,

00:13:24.140 I think this is confirmed by Charlie's memorial.

00:13:27.080 What you saw was the Holy Spirit bypassed

00:13:29.240 the ecclesiastical structure.

00:13:31.020 It essentially gave up corporately on much of the church

00:13:33.720 that had become weak, flaccid, watered down,

00:13:36.640 guys in perpetual Hawaiian shirts and skinny jeans

00:13:39.180 and sweater vests,

00:13:40.280 and were not interested in combating the spirit of the age,

00:13:43.400 claiming to be seeker-friendly.

00:13:45.080 It's funny how all the seekers 1.00

00:13:46.300 were always in these really posh suburbs

00:13:48.040 where everybody makes hundreds of thousands of dollars

00:13:50.240 and can write all kinds of tie checks.

00:13:52.000 You know who was really seeker-friendly?

00:13:53.720 Charlie was.

00:13:55.280 Charlie went where the actual seekers were. 0.99

00:13:57.880 And what Charlie proved ultimately

00:13:59.280 is that the word does not return void.

00:14:01.540 And I think ultimately it is the word of God that is perfect.

00:14:04.280 It's the only perfect thing on the earth.

00:14:05.840 It is the word of God that remains.

00:14:07.880 Movements come and fall.

00:14:08.860 Sex come and fall.

00:14:11.040 You see theological fads come and go.

00:14:13.660 The word of God is the constant.

00:14:15.220 And I think ultimately your culture is either built

00:14:17.520 on the word of Christ or chaos.

00:14:19.880 Well, if I could add, you know, I'm...

00:14:21.820 Chip in for the LDS side here.

00:14:23.360 I was going to say, yeah,

00:14:24.320 the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

00:14:26.660 I think is a very big underdog in this fight.

00:14:29.600 If you want to talk about...

00:14:30.680 On that, we agree.

00:14:31.220 If you want to talk about religions in America,

00:14:33.500 there's no more American religion 1.00

00:14:34.960 than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

00:14:36.740 But that being said, we have record growth in membership

00:14:39.340 in the last year around the world.

00:14:41.180 We absolutely have the important aspects

00:14:42.860 of apostolic succession hierarchy in the Church.

00:14:45.360 But we also have maybe the availability

00:14:47.460 of the Protestants in the country.

00:14:50.340 So I think the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,

00:14:52.720 with its bold claim that God still speaks to us,

00:14:55.220 that revelation is still being received for the Church

00:14:57.760 through a prophet, through 12 apostles,

00:14:59.760 the same structure that existed in the primitive Church,

00:15:01.900 I think that's something that may actually save this country

00:15:04.440 from its demise a little bit down the road.

00:15:06.180 And we're also the number one most church-going state

00:15:09.560 or province, however you want to call it,

00:15:11.560 in the entire Western world, Utah.

00:15:13.680 So I think that speaks for itself

00:15:15.020 if we're talking about fruit.

00:15:16.840 It is a very American religion.

00:15:19.300 There's no...

00:15:19.840 That is at least absolutely true.

00:15:21.540 Okay, next one.

00:15:21.940 All right.

00:15:22.220 As your resident Reformed Baptist representing

00:15:24.720 and an abortion abolitionist,

00:15:26.540 I would like to ask you guys,

00:15:28.160 first of all, I hold the controversial view

00:15:30.020 that it should be illegal for everyone to murder anyone.

00:15:33.420 It's crazy, right? 0.60

00:15:34.480 It's nuts.

00:15:35.540 So my question would be,

00:15:37.060 well, before I ask the question,

00:15:39.140 after 50 years of an overturning Roe

00:15:41.820 and the Dobbs decision,

00:15:43.340 we continue to see abortion numbers skyrocket

00:15:45.420 through the means of male appeal.

00:15:48.100 In all 50 states,

00:15:49.600 it's perfectly legal for mothers

00:15:51.040 to self-manage abortions, right? 1.00

00:15:54.380 So the question is,

00:15:55.300 should pre-born children have equal protection

00:15:57.180 under the law from all who would intentionally conspire

00:16:00.440 to terminate their life,

00:16:01.780 or should we give provisions to mothers 0.81

00:16:03.720 to have freedom to execute their children? 0.96

00:16:07.020 100% pre-born children should have every last, 0.98

00:16:11.020 going back to the Fifth Amendment, 0.79

00:16:12.340 the 14th Amendment has predicate that language.

00:16:15.480 No person shall be denied life, liberty, or property

00:16:17.680 without due process of law.

00:16:19.400 I mean, I was one of the pioneers

00:16:21.180 of the personhood movement a decade ago.

00:16:23.840 So 100%, I believe,

00:16:25.300 in the personhood of the unborn child.

00:16:27.600 I do think you're making the,

00:16:29.140 these are kind of your classic abolitionist talking points.

00:16:32.300 I'll say that you guys are going to win the argument

00:16:34.220 because the mainstream pro-life movement

00:16:36.080 is rudderless and lacks direction

00:16:37.580 and had no post-Roe plan.

00:16:39.160 So you're going to win

00:16:40.240 because you guys actually have a vision to victory.

00:16:42.700 The challenge that you guys are going to have

00:16:44.940 is what kind of collateral damage

00:16:46.960 are you going to cause on your way to your victory?

00:16:49.220 Because you guys,

00:16:50.080 and I say this, man, as a pugilist, okay?

00:16:52.500 But you guys take some of the most counterintuitive

00:16:55.280 confrontational tactics I've ever seen, right?

00:16:58.860 And you end up,

00:17:01.040 and I've said this to some of your national leaders,

00:17:03.160 you push away people who would be with you

00:17:05.140 because you give them,

00:17:06.740 you make them think that everything they did

00:17:08.820 for the last 40 years was a sin against Christ.

00:17:11.380 So I appreciate that.

00:17:12.300 Can we address me?

00:17:13.520 100%.

00:17:13.840 You bet.

00:17:14.340 I don't know those guys, so.

00:17:15.960 So on the point,

00:17:17.280 it sounds like we're wearing you down.

00:17:19.000 You're coming around to our position.

00:17:20.300 Listen, I had your position before you did.

00:17:22.700 Absolutely.

00:17:22.940 What I'm saying is,

00:17:24.320 you would have won probably by now

00:17:26.140 if your tactics were, to be blunt,

00:17:28.860 a little less douchey at times, to be blunt.

00:17:31.400 And because you're right,

00:17:32.840 your argument is correct.

00:17:34.500 The stuff, you know,

00:17:35.260 kind of the color revolution tactics

00:17:37.540 of standing outside people's offices

00:17:39.400 and screaming and yelling at them

00:17:40.700 and all that stuff I see,

00:17:41.860 I can just tell you,

00:17:42.620 because I get emails from the very legislatures,

00:17:45.320 or legislators that you're trying to reach. 0.98

00:17:47.000 And you give them an excuse to be cowards 0.94

00:17:49.960 with that kind of behavior, 0.61

00:17:51.120 where if you confronted them

00:17:52.360 on an intellectual basis,

00:17:53.800 their complete arguments would collapse

00:17:55.860 because they lack any moral clarity at all.

00:17:57.580 I agree with the feedback

00:17:58.340 and garner your support.

00:18:00.840 How about from the LDS and the Catholic?

00:18:03.160 Well, I actually agree very much so

00:18:04.780 with what Steve said.

00:18:06.000 It's always this issue, right,

00:18:07.120 of what is the most politically pragmatic

00:18:08.480 versus which is the most morally correct.

00:18:10.760 And yes, you know,

00:18:11.280 the abolitionist argument is the one

00:18:12.640 that is going to be obviously the most consistent.

00:18:14.880 And I had that question myself.

00:18:17.400 You know, why did I at one point believe

00:18:19.040 in exceptions for abortion

00:18:20.840 in cases of rape or incest?

00:18:21.980 It makes no sense at all.

00:18:23.440 I will say, however,

00:18:24.300 sometimes we make consistency a false god

00:18:27.060 the same way that often

00:18:27.860 we make pragmatism a false god.

00:18:29.700 I think it is important to understand our situation

00:18:31.420 and how that situation differs across countries.

00:18:33.820 But I think that personally,

00:18:35.320 every single individual

00:18:36.260 should take the abolitionist position.

00:18:37.860 It is correct.

00:18:39.020 It does more affirm

00:18:40.560 the value of each individual human life.

00:18:43.320 So be nicer.

00:18:43.920 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:18:47.840 Do not pence me, bro.

00:18:49.420 No, I didn't say anything about being nice.

00:18:52.060 There's a wide chasm

00:18:53.260 between being douchey and being nice.

00:18:55.860 What I'm saying is be wiser.

00:18:57.760 I could care less about nice,

00:18:59.400 but be wiser.

00:19:00.320 Yes.

00:19:00.680 Okay.

00:19:01.040 I believe myself and my team,

00:19:03.380 we've been very nice and not douchey.

00:19:05.540 So thank you.

00:19:06.300 No, you've been wise.

00:19:07.440 Thank you, sir.

00:19:07.800 Don't be nice.

00:19:08.580 Be wise.

00:19:09.120 Yes, sir.

00:19:09.420 I would say my politics

00:19:11.260 comes down to Aristotle, basically.

00:19:13.780 And Aristotle says

00:19:14.720 the paramount political virtue

00:19:15.780 is prudence.

00:19:17.020 Not pragmatism,

00:19:18.260 not utilitarianism,

00:19:19.460 but prudence.

00:19:20.760 And so, of course,

00:19:22.540 I want all abortion to end.

00:19:24.940 There's no moral excuse

00:19:26.620 to kill an innocent baby

00:19:27.940 under any circumstances. 0.73

00:19:30.180 However,

00:19:30.820 I'm not really an all-or-nothing

00:19:32.360 kind of person.

00:19:33.320 I am willing to take

00:19:34.740 incremental change.

00:19:36.040 I think it's a fallen world.

00:19:37.400 I don't think we're going to see

00:19:38.420 perfection this side of heaven.

00:19:40.360 It does seem like the culture

00:19:41.600 is moving a little bit more

00:19:42.500 in our direction

00:19:43.000 for a variety of reasons.

00:19:44.600 But I would not make the arguments

00:19:47.360 primarily from ideology,

00:19:49.800 even primarily using

00:19:50.940 the language of rights.

00:19:52.100 I would use more

00:19:52.820 the language of natural law.

00:19:54.360 I would use the language of scripture.

00:19:56.160 I would say it's obviously wrong.

00:19:57.660 We can know through reason

00:19:58.440 and revelation,

00:19:59.280 it's wrong to murder

00:20:00.080 innocent people,

00:20:01.200 especially to murder 0.61

00:20:01.980 innocent babies. 0.99

00:20:02.920 Thomas Aquinas would be proud.

00:20:04.300 Thomas Aquinas,

00:20:04.720 you know,

00:20:05.360 I defer to Thomas Aquinas.

00:20:06.220 You are Catholic.

00:20:07.100 You really are.

00:20:07.800 I basically ask him

00:20:08.960 what I should have

00:20:09.340 for breakfast in the morning

00:20:10.280 at St. Thomas.

00:20:12.180 So anyway,

00:20:13.100 because of that,

00:20:14.700 I would follow

00:20:16.980 our Lord's injunction

00:20:17.860 to be wise as a serpent

00:20:19.020 and innocent as a dove.

00:20:21.300 And if there is a clear path

00:20:24.920 to victory

00:20:25.520 for more abolitionist arguments,

00:20:27.500 I'm all for it.

00:20:28.440 That's why libertarians

00:20:29.240 are not convincing.

00:20:30.420 They're perfectly consistent,

00:20:31.600 but they don't make

00:20:32.160 themselves attractive.

00:20:33.880 So for context

00:20:35.460 on my question,

00:20:36.560 I am a practicing member

00:20:37.520 of the Church of Jesus Christ

00:20:38.440 of Latter-day Saints

00:20:39.120 and have a son

00:20:39.720 that is converting

00:20:40.280 to Catholicism.

00:20:42.120 So I really...

00:20:42.720 You've got to get

00:20:43.020 one Protestant

00:20:43.760 and then you've got

00:20:44.380 the whole...

00:20:44.880 Maybe the other son.

00:20:46.640 And I appreciate

00:20:47.500 all of the insight

00:20:48.640 and knowledge

00:20:49.120 and everything

00:20:49.640 that you have shared

00:20:50.620 in teaching me

00:20:51.360 about Catholicism.

00:20:52.520 Thank you.

00:20:53.840 My two sons

00:20:54.740 are part of this generation

00:20:55.820 I'm grateful

00:20:56.420 that I have raised

00:20:57.280 that are extremely conservative.

00:20:59.600 And where I'm struggling

00:21:00.340 right now

00:21:00.880 is trying to help

00:21:01.700 and we want to enlarge

00:21:02.620 the tent

00:21:02.880 and bring the coalition together

00:21:04.200 and yet there's so many voices

00:21:06.000 out there

00:21:06.720 that are so combative

00:21:07.800 and so...

00:21:08.400 I feel like hateful

00:21:09.560 and hard

00:21:09.920 that I'm struggling

00:21:10.940 with trying to help

00:21:11.940 them discern

00:21:13.140 which voices

00:21:14.400 in the movement

00:21:15.020 that we should be

00:21:15.760 listening to

00:21:16.780 and especially

00:21:17.800 as we were talking

00:21:18.600 about Israel

00:21:19.320 and some of these

00:21:20.600 other topics

00:21:21.060 that are so controversial

00:21:21.780 in the movement.

00:21:22.740 If you have spiritual

00:21:23.580 and political

00:21:24.500 and basically

00:21:25.560 because you work

00:21:26.180 in the field

00:21:26.740 insight on how

00:21:27.780 to help them discern.

00:21:28.500 I have a little

00:21:29.260 spiritual insight

00:21:30.120 on this.

00:21:30.800 I mean I think

00:21:31.140 it's great news

00:21:31.820 about your son.

00:21:34.340 I'm just happy

00:21:35.300 that he's happy

00:21:36.160 and finding God.

00:21:37.500 So you know

00:21:38.380 at these moments

00:21:39.300 when people are having

00:21:40.700 intense spiritual

00:21:42.640 or numinous experience

00:21:44.220 I've just seen

00:21:45.560 anecdotally

00:21:46.260 and experienced

00:21:47.060 the devil really

00:21:48.500 doesn't like that

00:21:49.360 and the devil kind of

00:21:50.560 he tries to find ways

00:21:52.240 to go in and poke you

00:21:53.300 and tilt you a little

00:21:53.960 off course

00:21:54.460 and kind of mess with you

00:21:55.400 and so

00:21:56.160 one of the

00:21:57.220 occupational hazards

00:21:59.040 of political media

00:22:00.580 and politics generally

00:22:01.760 is detraction

00:22:02.900 and calumny

00:22:03.660 and something

00:22:05.080 that's very attractive

00:22:06.100 in a social media age

00:22:07.320 is a railing

00:22:08.500 and reviling spirit

00:22:09.400 which St. Paul warns

00:22:10.360 us against

00:22:10.860 and so these are

00:22:12.260 the temptations

00:22:13.060 that we really have

00:22:14.020 to back away from

00:22:15.260 and I get it

00:22:16.680 I enjoy being entertained

00:22:18.200 in political media

00:22:19.220 I gossip

00:22:21.620 and railing

00:22:22.720 and detraction

00:22:24.040 they can be like

00:22:24.980 really really funny

00:22:25.800 and I'd be lying

00:22:27.600 if I said

00:22:28.060 I didn't watch it

00:22:28.680 every so often

00:22:29.260 on my timeline

00:22:29.840 but it's not good

00:22:31.680 it's not good

00:22:32.160 for your soul

00:22:32.640 it's not good

00:22:33.380 for the political community

00:22:34.520 and it's important

00:22:35.480 to recognize a distinction

00:22:36.780 one can enjoy

00:22:38.000 a little bit

00:22:38.420 of entertainment

00:22:39.060 and maybe

00:22:39.700 glean something from it

00:22:41.460 while also recognizing

00:22:43.000 that the incentives

00:22:44.280 of the entertainers

00:22:45.660 of the broadcasters

00:22:46.660 are different

00:22:47.500 from the incentives

00:22:48.160 of the political community

00:22:49.360 and some of them 0.89

00:22:50.800 are cynics

00:22:51.440 some of them

00:22:52.160 are the kind of people

00:22:52.840 who say

00:22:53.180 don't even engage

00:22:54.040 civically at all

00:22:54.800 it's all doom and gloom

00:22:55.900 those people

00:22:57.740 have a real profit incentive

00:22:59.640 to make people despair

00:23:02.620 citizens have no incentive 1.00

00:23:04.380 for despair

00:23:04.980 and so I would say

00:23:05.940 be quiet

00:23:06.960 instruct your family

00:23:08.540 to be quiet

00:23:09.640 to pray

00:23:10.080 to listen to the voice

00:23:10.860 of God

00:23:11.260 to avail oneself

00:23:12.360 of the sacraments

00:23:13.320 and to be able

00:23:14.740 to find the good

00:23:16.200 in everything

00:23:16.820 and to distinguish

00:23:18.060 where priorities

00:23:19.300 really lie

00:23:19.920 can I add to that

00:23:21.220 really quick

00:23:21.680 please

00:23:21.980 Christianity is not 1.00

00:23:24.300 the endless asking

00:23:25.300 of questions

00:23:25.940 it is the ceaseless

00:23:27.540 seeking of answers

00:23:28.740 if I would consume content

00:23:31.900 that points you to truth

00:23:33.140 and not modern day

00:23:35.440 Gnosticism

00:23:36.260 you know the first being

00:23:37.900 who ever said

00:23:38.460 I'm just asking questions

00:23:40.400 Satan

00:23:41.840 okay

00:23:42.660 so if we're just

00:23:44.260 I'm all for asking questions

00:23:45.540 as far as I know

00:23:46.200 I'm the only human being

00:23:47.100 on the earth

00:23:47.600 that has written

00:23:48.300 two best-selling books

00:23:49.320 debunking the scamdemic

00:23:50.480 but what I didn't do

00:23:51.740 is just ask questions

00:23:52.800 I gave answers

00:23:53.500 I wrote books

00:23:54.080 that had more footnotes

00:23:55.080 than pages

00:23:55.540 what are the answers

00:23:56.980 it's not about

00:23:57.960 what questions we ask

00:23:59.160 it's about where we go

00:24:00.240 for the truth

00:24:00.760 and what the truth is

00:24:01.760 all right

00:24:02.360 so it's not about

00:24:03.360 the endless asking

00:24:04.380 of questions

00:24:04.940 that creates division

00:24:05.980 okay

00:24:06.860 that creates a lot

00:24:07.940 of the things

00:24:08.280 we've seen

00:24:08.600 the last few months

00:24:09.420 it's about

00:24:10.320 where do we go

00:24:11.420 for the truth

00:24:12.160 where do we go

00:24:12.760 for the answers

00:24:13.400 it's not about

00:24:14.400 the endless asking

00:24:15.340 of questions

00:24:15.940 but the ceaseless

00:24:17.060 seeking of answers

00:24:18.380 one last thing

00:24:19.480 we're in the advent season

00:24:20.640 the Lord wanted

00:24:22.600 to be known

00:24:23.180 so much

00:24:23.960 truth wanted

00:24:24.900 to be known

00:24:25.300 so much

00:24:25.860 it left paradise

00:24:26.880 and put itself

00:24:27.980 in the most vulnerable

00:24:28.920 form

00:24:29.520 an unborn child

00:24:30.660 all right

00:24:31.420 that's how much

00:24:32.320 the Lord of the universe

00:24:34.200 grew up

00:24:34.720 had to have a diaper changed 1.00

00:24:35.940 had to be burped

00:24:37.060 had to be taught 0.60

00:24:37.980 how to speak

00:24:38.500 how to read

00:24:39.020 had to be taught a trade

00:24:39.940 think about that

00:24:41.000 he slept

00:24:41.820 he sweat

00:24:42.400 he sweat

00:24:42.920 with his disciples

00:24:43.700 ate with them

00:24:44.500 hungered with them

00:24:45.520 thirsted with them

00:24:46.360 the truth

00:24:47.220 wants to be known

00:24:48.380 consume content

00:24:49.540 that points you to truth

00:24:50.840 because that's godly

00:24:52.300 the stuff that does not

00:24:53.980 comes from another place

00:24:55.440 yeah well hey

00:24:57.240 thank you for being here

00:24:58.560 it's nice to

00:24:59.240 you know

00:24:59.720 have this

00:25:00.080 underrepresented

00:25:02.120 group here

00:25:03.100 which I think

00:25:03.480 is actually

00:25:03.820 a very large part

00:25:04.520 of the conservative

00:25:05.020 movement

00:25:05.420 I work at the blaze

00:25:07.300 it's a very large part

00:25:08.200 of them

00:25:08.420 that's true

00:25:09.540 that's true

00:25:10.000 we're at the top

00:25:11.020 we're collected at the top

00:25:11.920 no but

00:25:12.320 I know that your son

00:25:13.880 certainly has heard

00:25:14.960 that we believe

00:25:15.800 in being honest

00:25:16.440 true

00:25:16.720 chaste

00:25:17.060 benevolent

00:25:17.560 virtuous

00:25:17.900 and in doing good

00:25:18.640 to all men

00:25:19.180 so I believe

00:25:21.340 this is from one

00:25:22.080 of the 13 articles

00:25:22.900 of faith

00:25:23.300 that the Church of Jesus

00:25:23.960 Christ of Latter-day Saints

00:25:24.780 has

00:25:25.120 I came to experience

00:25:26.640 that question

00:25:27.440 very importantly

00:25:28.020 in my own life

00:25:28.840 because I was very much

00:25:30.120 actually brought

00:25:30.680 to take my faith

00:25:31.340 more seriously

00:25:32.020 by some of the louder voices

00:25:33.320 which were even at times

00:25:34.200 a little bit more riotous

00:25:35.160 or maybe even a little bit

00:25:37.140 a little bit meaner

00:25:37.940 it motivated me

00:25:38.760 to take my faith

00:25:39.380 more seriously

00:25:40.060 because it was something

00:25:41.120 that I was participating

00:25:41.880 in more so culturally

00:25:42.840 than spiritually

00:25:43.900 and with my whole soul

00:25:44.980 that being said

00:25:45.720 I think you have to realize

00:25:48.100 and everybody must make

00:25:49.360 the decision

00:25:49.800 to either

00:25:51.160 let their politics

00:25:52.440 be inspired by their faith

00:25:53.920 or let their faith

00:25:55.600 or let their politics

00:25:57.340 go the other way around

00:25:59.160 and start dictating

00:26:00.260 the way they ought

00:26:01.300 to live their lives

00:26:02.020 as Latter-day Saints

00:26:03.400 or as other religious people

00:26:04.580 it is not

00:26:05.160 a virtue to be based

00:26:07.460 necessarily

00:26:08.200 obviously there's

00:26:09.180 some based things

00:26:10.080 which are good

00:26:10.760 and align with gospel values

00:26:12.320 but we're not going to

00:26:13.240 score brownie points

00:26:14.020 in heaven

00:26:14.320 because we told leftists 1.00

00:26:15.320 to kill themselves 1.00

00:26:15.940 and I would do 1.00

00:26:18.120 these Omegle streams

00:26:18.920 talking to strangers

00:26:19.680 on the internet

00:26:20.180 and I quickly realized

00:26:21.160 it's a weird anecdote

00:26:22.160 but everybody

00:26:23.080 you know does that

00:26:24.300 they call them slurs

00:26:25.220 they call them whatever

00:26:25.960 and I very quickly realized

00:26:27.200 that it is so much

00:26:29.400 more rewarding

00:26:29.960 and even so much

00:26:31.040 more inspiring

00:26:31.780 to try and extend

00:26:33.220 kindness to people

00:26:34.200 especially your enemies

00:26:35.700 who Christ told us

00:26:36.760 to pray for

00:26:37.280 so I would say

00:26:38.300 to your sons

00:26:38.760 that's the ultimate

00:26:39.580 question right

00:26:40.320 is which is coming first

00:26:41.700 is your politics

00:26:42.800 you know coming

00:26:43.320 before your faith

00:26:44.000 are your politics

00:26:44.600 coming before your faith 0.94

00:26:45.340 or is your faith

00:26:46.180 dictating your politics

00:26:47.120 it's not a virtue

00:26:48.080 to be based

00:26:48.800 I like that line

00:26:49.540 that's a very thoughtful line

00:26:50.820 what are you based in

00:26:51.120 what are you based on

00:26:52.980 okay

00:26:53.280 that's the end of round one

00:26:54.900 back to Israel 1.00

00:26:55.960 back to the subject

00:26:56.840 that we just talked about

00:26:57.880 a poll of the audience

00:26:59.380 who won the debate

00:27:01.260 over America's 0.85

00:27:02.220 support of Israel

00:27:03.000 was it Kai

00:27:05.060 was it Steve

00:27:10.740 who won

00:27:15.140 I actually

00:27:15.520 I can't tell

00:27:16.140 Mr. Davies

00:27:16.780 I think it was Kai

00:27:18.460 it was Kai

00:27:19.740 okay

00:27:20.060 all right

00:27:20.580 I thought Steve

00:27:21.360 made good points

00:27:21.880 but okay

00:27:22.220 all right

00:27:22.660 you might want to check out

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00:28:52.140 it is now

00:28:52.940 time

00:28:53.380 for round two

00:28:56.680 okay

00:28:57.280 our next topic

00:28:59.740 a major

00:29:01.120 point of debate

00:29:02.260 between the old guard

00:29:03.360 and the new guard

00:29:04.040 the boomers 0.96

00:29:05.120 and the zoomers 1.00

00:29:05.960 big government 0.98

00:29:08.000 doesn't always suck 0.97

00:29:10.020 subheader 0.66

00:29:11.620 the economy needs

00:29:12.960 a political fix

00:29:13.940 I'll let you go

00:29:16.020 first this time

00:29:16.580 guy

00:29:16.960 yeah I mean

00:29:18.180 I completely agree

00:29:19.320 just as a matter

00:29:20.380 of principle

00:29:20.940 right

00:29:21.480 big government

00:29:22.260 obviously does not 0.98

00:29:23.160 always suck

00:29:23.760 and to get to 0.99

00:29:25.160 you know

00:29:25.360 the political prudence

00:29:26.340 of it

00:29:26.900 if you believe

00:29:28.080 big government 1.00

00:29:28.580 sucks 1.00

00:29:29.000 you're not going 0.99

00:29:29.640 to convince

00:29:30.040 all the people

00:29:30.580 who think

00:29:31.280 that it doesn't

00:29:31.920 and are willing

00:29:32.340 to use the force

00:29:33.040 of the state

00:29:33.500 to impose

00:29:34.100 their will

00:29:34.480 on you

00:29:34.860 I will say

00:29:36.220 that we've gotten

00:29:37.160 to a point

00:29:37.520 in this country

00:29:38.020 where the

00:29:38.500 pull yourself

00:29:39.120 up by your

00:29:39.760 bootstraps

00:29:40.420 excuse

00:29:40.760 simply does not

00:29:41.440 work for my

00:29:41.920 generation

00:29:42.380 there's a

00:29:43.060 1,000 square foot

00:29:44.260 house

00:29:44.680 where I live

00:29:45.500 in Salt Lake City

00:29:46.140 Utah

00:29:46.420 that is worth

00:29:47.160 $500,000

00:29:48.100 this is a huge

00:29:49.760 problem

00:29:50.200 we're at a point

00:29:50.940 in this country

00:29:51.380 now as well

00:29:52.080 where all of the

00:29:53.000 people who have

00:29:53.480 been told

00:29:53.840 well you know

00:29:54.720 you got to just

00:29:55.700 get into

00:29:56.200 one of these

00:29:56.980 white collar jobs

00:29:58.300 because you won't

00:29:58.820 be replaced

00:29:59.240 they're going to

00:29:59.560 be replaced

00:29:59.960 by AI

00:30:00.500 there has to

00:30:01.460 exist some

00:30:02.140 kind of structure

00:30:02.860 and frankly I

00:30:03.820 believe there

00:30:04.300 there is some

00:30:05.140 role of the

00:30:05.620 state in creating

00:30:06.680 that structure

00:30:07.180 which is going

00:30:07.600 to protect

00:30:08.100 the students

00:30:09.240 who are now

00:30:09.640 going to college

00:30:10.420 and one of the

00:30:11.320 things that I

00:30:11.780 actually support

00:30:12.480 and this will

00:30:12.760 be much to

00:30:13.180 the chagrin

00:30:13.520 of many here

00:30:14.340 is a reformation

00:30:15.840 of how we do

00:30:16.580 welfare

00:30:17.140 welfare obviously

00:30:18.140 in this country

00:30:18.620 is not working

00:30:19.280 but I think

00:30:19.940 that you can

00:30:20.240 apply market

00:30:20.860 principles to get

00:30:21.700 it to work

00:30:22.040 better

00:30:22.420 and Milton Friedman

00:30:23.620 proposed something

00:30:24.260 that is similar

00:30:24.840 and this is the

00:30:25.420 negative income tax

00:30:26.360 in practice

00:30:27.400 however the

00:30:27.840 negative income

00:30:28.280 tax does not

00:30:28.900 actually incentivize

00:30:29.620 business creation

00:30:30.920 it does not

00:30:31.360 incentivize risk

00:30:32.060 taking family

00:30:32.720 growth

00:30:33.080 a universal

00:30:34.100 basic income

00:30:34.820 as much as it

00:30:35.460 may be due

00:30:35.880 to the chagrin

00:30:36.600 of many

00:30:37.240 conservatives

00:30:37.700 who are told

00:30:38.640 that that is

00:30:39.040 socialism

00:30:39.440 and you can

00:30:39.980 never do anything

00:30:40.540 that even

00:30:40.920 approaches that

00:30:41.960 word

00:30:42.240 it actually is

00:30:43.660 going to

00:30:44.180 allow mothers

00:30:45.080 to stay in the

00:30:45.720 home with their

00:30:46.120 children

00:30:46.400 allow college

00:30:47.100 students to

00:30:47.520 devote more

00:30:48.220 time to their

00:30:48.860 studies

00:30:49.220 and is going

00:30:49.880 to incentivize

00:30:50.720 the production

00:30:51.240 of businesses

00:30:52.280 and spur

00:30:53.260 you know

00:30:53.920 the growth

00:30:54.520 of employment

00:30:55.180 in certain

00:30:55.880 sectors of the

00:30:56.380 economy

00:30:56.720 that are likely

00:30:57.200 underrepresented

00:30:57.820 right now

00:30:58.360 so I think

00:30:59.060 that we have

00:30:59.440 to absolutely

00:30:59.980 depart from

00:31:00.500 this idea

00:31:01.120 that big

00:31:01.980 government 1.00

00:31:02.240 always sucks 1.00

00:31:02.980 it can 0.95

00:31:03.260 absolutely be

00:31:03.940 used as a

00:31:04.480 tool for good

00:31:05.040 the same way

00:31:05.720 that a gun

00:31:06.100 can be used

00:31:06.540 for good or evil

00:31:07.140 we're not

00:31:07.920 arguing to get

00:31:08.440 rid of the gun

00:31:08.940 I don't disagree 0.95

00:31:10.800 I don't disagree 0.95

00:31:10.820 with the first

00:31:12.400 half of his

00:31:12.920 answer

00:31:13.360 and a lot

00:31:14.480 of times

00:31:14.860 big government

00:31:15.440 is defined

00:31:16.020 by is government

00:31:16.840 doing what you

00:31:17.400 want it to do

00:31:17.940 or not

00:31:18.280 is often how

00:31:19.320 it is defined

00:31:20.000 right

00:31:20.600 but the solution

00:31:22.840 is where this

00:31:23.480 is going to

00:31:23.840 break down

00:31:24.340 the reality

00:31:25.320 is doing

00:31:26.400 universal basic

00:31:27.420 income

00:31:27.860 is just

00:31:28.900 boomerism

00:31:29.680 on steroids

00:31:30.480 it's essentially

00:31:31.560 the new deal

00:31:32.380 the welfare state

00:31:33.560 90 days

00:31:34.340 same as cash

00:31:35.120 six months

00:31:35.700 no interest

00:31:36.360 all the same

00:31:37.120 stuff your parents

00:31:37.780 and grandparents

00:31:38.340 did to bankrupt

00:31:39.020 y'all

00:31:39.400 we're just

00:31:39.980 going to go

00:31:40.300 ahead and put

00:31:40.940 it on steroids

00:31:41.680 I mean

00:31:42.360 ultimately

00:31:42.800 you have to

00:31:43.760 have

00:31:44.040 here's what

00:31:45.280 stipulated

00:31:46.120 your economic

00:31:47.360 theorem

00:31:47.860 must in

00:31:48.680 practicum

00:31:49.260 line up

00:31:49.680 with human

00:31:50.040 nature

00:31:50.380 you just

00:31:51.580 have to

00:31:51.900 that's the

00:31:52.500 we cannot

00:31:53.200 that's the

00:31:53.780 we have to

00:31:54.240 deal

00:31:54.380 you said

00:31:54.660 this is a

00:31:55.020 fallen world

00:31:55.620 we have to

00:31:56.380 deal with

00:31:56.680 the realities

00:31:57.260 of human

00:31:57.700 nature

00:31:58.020 the first

00:31:58.740 people who

00:31:59.100 ever really

00:31:59.700 found in

00:32:00.120 America

00:32:00.420 were the

00:32:00.740 Puritans 0.86

00:32:01.220 and when

00:32:02.020 they landed

00:32:02.380 here

00:32:02.580 they read

00:32:02.960 Acts 2

00:32:03.520 and they

00:32:03.780 thought

00:32:03.940 well they

00:32:04.180 shared

00:32:04.440 everything

00:32:04.740 in common

00:32:05.240 we should

00:32:06.000 do the

00:32:06.260 exact same

00:32:06.820 thing

00:32:07.180 I mean

00:32:07.660 who's

00:32:08.480 going to

00:32:08.680 be more

00:32:09.120 likely

00:32:09.560 than the

00:32:10.380 sola scriptura

00:32:11.220 Puritans 0.86

00:32:11.940 who believe

00:32:13.580 they were

00:32:13.920 elected before

00:32:14.640 the foundations

00:32:15.360 of the world

00:32:16.080 for salvation

00:32:17.400 by grace

00:32:18.240 alone

00:32:18.620 lest any man

00:32:19.240 would boast

00:32:19.720 if there was

00:32:20.480 ever a people

00:32:21.180 who out of

00:32:21.880 just pure

00:32:22.320 altruism

00:32:22.920 would do

00:32:23.520 production

00:32:24.060 and would

00:32:24.800 create a

00:32:25.680 society

00:32:26.120 just out of

00:32:26.760 altruistic

00:32:27.320 means

00:32:27.700 it would

00:32:28.240 certainly

00:32:28.640 be these

00:32:29.080 people

00:32:29.320 correct

00:32:29.720 certainly

00:32:30.300 well what

00:32:30.640 happened

00:32:30.920 is because

00:32:31.420 I wrote a

00:32:31.900 best-selling

00:32:32.240 book on this

00:32:32.740 subject

00:32:32.980 I know it

00:32:33.340 very well

00:32:33.880 what ended

00:32:34.600 up happening

00:32:35.040 is in the

00:32:35.380 first two

00:32:35.780 years half

00:32:36.260 of them

00:32:36.480 died

00:32:36.800 half of

00:32:38.060 them died

00:32:38.440 starvation

00:32:39.120 the young

00:32:39.920 men did 0.64

00:32:40.300 not want

00:32:40.620 to work

00:32:40.840 for the

00:32:41.100 old men 0.95

00:32:41.400 who couldn't

00:32:41.680 work anymore

00:32:42.260 the young

00:32:43.060 wives

00:32:43.460 and then they

00:32:43.840 got bitter

00:32:44.220 that their

00:32:44.640 wives are 1.00

00:32:45.060 not tending

00:32:45.440 to them

00:32:45.760 but to the

00:32:46.120 old men 0.95

00:32:46.440 in their

00:32:46.680 homes

00:32:46.980 and they

00:32:47.520 turned on

00:32:47.840 each other

00:32:48.220 and then

00:32:48.740 this guy

00:32:49.060 John Winthrop

00:32:49.740 he did

00:32:50.120 this thing

00:32:50.560 where he

00:32:51.040 read this

00:32:51.420 parable

00:32:51.740 of the

00:32:51.980 talents

00:32:52.360 and he

00:32:53.000 said

00:32:53.220 oh wow

00:32:53.920 I mean

00:32:54.240 so actually

00:32:54.820 if we

00:32:55.300 if we demand

00:32:56.180 multiplication

00:32:56.840 and excellence

00:32:57.660 if we

00:32:57.980 incentivize

00:32:58.600 excellence

00:32:59.040 we're going

00:32:59.620 to get

00:32:59.820 more of

00:33:00.340 something

00:33:00.680 so they

00:33:01.260 changed

00:33:01.660 their

00:33:01.820 economic

00:33:02.260 theory

00:33:02.640 they

00:33:03.080 gave the

00:33:04.260 plots

00:33:04.840 of land

00:33:05.320 based on

00:33:06.020 the size

00:33:06.420 of the

00:33:06.640 clan

00:33:06.880 like the

00:33:07.220 12 tribes

00:33:07.760 of Israel

00:33:08.180 and then

00:33:08.720 if you

00:33:08.960 wanted

00:33:09.220 more than

00:33:09.680 that

00:33:09.980 whoever

00:33:10.420 produced

00:33:10.960 the highest

00:33:11.620 yield

00:33:12.200 of harvest

00:33:12.740 for the

00:33:13.080 next fall

00:33:13.720 was given

00:33:14.460 more land

00:33:15.080 to whom

00:33:15.380 much is

00:33:15.700 given

00:33:15.940 much is

00:33:16.320 required

00:33:16.760 right

00:33:17.140 and so

00:33:17.780 what ended

00:33:18.120 up happening

00:33:18.580 was the

00:33:18.920 birth of

00:33:19.300 capitalism

00:33:19.820 and the

00:33:20.460 birth of

00:33:20.780 what we

00:33:20.980 know as

00:33:21.300 America

00:33:21.720 now the

00:33:22.440 problem we

00:33:22.920 have with

00:33:23.200 capitalism

00:33:23.640 today

00:33:24.120 is it

00:33:24.700 looks a lot

00:33:25.120 like what

00:33:25.460 Chesterton

00:33:29.040 much of

00:33:30.020 what's been

00:33:30.380 done for

00:33:30.820 the last

00:33:31.160 generation

00:33:31.680 is corporate 0.92

00:33:32.580 whoring 0.87

00:33:33.040 masquerading 0.93

00:33:34.300 as capitalism

00:33:35.060 and so

00:33:35.820 now we're

00:33:36.260 in this

00:33:36.600 position

00:33:37.040 and I

00:33:37.600 say this

00:33:37.920 to my

00:33:38.280 conventional

00:33:39.340 traditional

00:33:40.020 conservatives

00:33:40.720 the folks

00:33:42.040 like me

00:33:42.460 who graduated

00:33:43.060 from the

00:33:43.420 Limbaugh

00:33:43.820 Institute

00:33:44.400 of Advanced

00:33:45.380 Conservative

00:33:45.800 Studies

00:33:46.240 and have

00:33:47.000 our official

00:33:47.720 diploma from

00:33:48.380 the Milton

00:33:48.740 Friedman

00:33:49.140 Economic

00:33:49.600 Institute

00:33:50.060 we have

00:33:50.920 to live

00:33:51.220 in reality

00:33:51.860 government 0.88

00:33:52.540 has screwed 0.91

00:33:53.500 this culture

00:33:54.620 economically

00:33:55.280 and much

00:33:56.620 of our

00:33:57.020 previous

00:33:57.780 republic

00:33:58.220 which you

00:33:58.620 said

00:33:58.820 earlier

00:33:59.160 about making

00:34:00.000 sure our

00:34:00.680 faith is the

00:34:01.280 basis for

00:34:01.740 our politics

00:34:02.300 not the

00:34:02.600 other way

00:34:02.820 around

00:34:03.120 we lied

00:34:04.040 to this

00:34:04.400 generation

00:34:04.940 and said

00:34:05.880 that what

00:34:06.160 we were

00:34:06.440 doing

00:34:06.820 with too

00:34:07.400 big to

00:34:07.760 fail

00:34:08.020 and when

00:34:08.320 George W

00:34:08.820 Bush

00:34:09.020 said

00:34:09.320 I have

00:34:09.740 to suspend

00:34:10.280 free market

00:34:10.800 principles

00:34:11.240 to save

00:34:12.060 the free

00:34:12.340 market

00:34:12.640 we lied

00:34:13.760 to this

00:34:14.040 generation

00:34:14.500 and told

00:34:15.200 them

00:34:15.300 because we

00:34:15.540 had to

00:34:15.880 we got

00:34:16.360 to beat

00:34:16.580 the

00:34:16.720 democrats

00:34:17.120 don't

00:34:17.500 you know

00:34:17.800 and so

00:34:18.280 we lied

00:34:18.800 and we

00:34:19.260 told them

00:34:19.620 that that

00:34:19.900 was

00:34:20.060 capitalism

00:34:20.580 and now

00:34:21.240 that they're

00:34:21.580 of age

00:34:21.900 they cannot

00:34:22.240 afford

00:34:22.580 a home

00:34:22.880 we have

00:34:23.100 the highest

00:34:23.460 median age

00:34:28.820 complaints

00:34:29.220 I even

00:34:29.880 agree

00:34:30.180 it's going

00:34:30.500 to take

00:34:30.760 government

00:34:31.120 to some

00:34:31.560 degree

00:34:31.800 to undo

00:34:32.240 the mess

00:34:32.640 it made

00:34:33.060 starting

00:34:33.760 with

00:34:34.120 mass

00:34:34.840 deportations

00:34:35.680 and immigration

00:34:36.340 moratorium

00:34:36.980 and a

00:34:37.560 closed

00:34:37.920 border

00:34:38.320 get rid

00:34:38.920 of

00:34:39.040 everybody

00:34:39.520 the

00:34:39.780 Biden

00:34:40.060 regime

00:34:40.460 allowed

00:34:40.860 into the

00:34:41.160 country

00:34:41.440 in the

00:34:41.640 last

00:34:41.900 five

00:34:42.180 years

00:34:42.460 that

00:34:42.840 would

00:34:42.960 bring

00:34:43.140 literally

00:34:43.360 the

00:34:43.540 cost

00:34:43.840 of

00:34:43.980 everything

00:34:44.260 down

00:34:44.640 strictly

00:34:45.140 from a

00:34:45.480 supply

00:34:45.800 and

00:34:45.940 demand

00:34:46.200 standpoint

00:34:46.700 but I

00:34:47.380 promise

00:34:48.080 you

00:34:48.420 if we

00:34:49.100 go down

00:34:49.540 the road

00:34:49.900 of things

00:34:50.240 like

00:34:50.480 UBI

00:34:51.000 you're

00:34:51.600 going

00:34:51.760 to end

00:34:52.200 up

00:34:52.760 and

00:34:52.940 this

00:34:53.500 reminds

00:34:54.040 me

00:34:54.180 of a

00:34:54.340 debate

00:34:54.560 I

00:34:54.680 had

00:34:54.840 with

00:34:54.980 the

00:34:55.160 Occupy

00:34:55.600 Wall

00:34:55.840 Street

00:34:56.000 guy

00:34:56.320 in

00:34:56.600 Wichita

00:34:57.240 Kansas

00:34:57.700 10

00:34:57.960 years

00:34:58.160 ago

00:34:58.420 and

00:34:59.100 he

00:34:59.220 said

00:34:59.440 many

00:34:59.680 of

00:34:59.800 the

00:34:59.900 same

00:35:00.080 things

00:35:00.380 and

00:35:00.540 when

00:35:01.120 he

00:35:01.220 was

00:35:01.320 laying

00:35:01.600 all

00:35:01.820 these

00:35:01.980 complaints

00:35:02.400 that

00:35:02.580 what

00:35:02.700 the

00:35:02.820 Republican

00:35:03.200 party

00:35:03.580 has

00:35:03.760 falsely

00:35:04.420 smeared

00:35:04.800 as

00:35:04.960 capitalism

00:35:05.460 when it

00:35:06.060 was

00:35:06.180 really

00:35:06.380 corporatism

00:35:07.040 and 0.98

00:35:07.200 whoring 0.98

00:35:07.500 I

00:35:07.860 just

00:35:08.020 kept

00:35:08.240 agreeing

00:35:08.580 and

00:35:08.740 agreeing

00:35:09.040 and

00:35:09.180 agreeing

00:35:09.420 and

00:35:09.560 agreeing

00:35:09.720 and

00:35:09.820 it

00:35:09.840 blew

00:35:09.960 his

00:35:10.100 mind

00:35:10.400 and

00:35:10.940 so

00:35:11.060 when

00:35:11.460 are

00:35:11.660 we

00:35:11.740 going

00:35:11.860 to

00:35:11.960 disagree

00:35:12.280 I

00:35:12.460 said

00:35:12.580 probably

00:35:12.860 when

00:35:13.000 we

00:35:13.060 get

00:35:13.140 to

00:35:13.240 the

00:35:13.360 solutions

00:35:13.780 and

00:35:14.700 so

00:35:14.880 all

00:35:15.300 the

00:35:15.620 preamble

00:35:16.500 and

00:35:16.680 the

00:35:16.820 first

00:35:17.060 act

00:35:17.320 of

00:35:17.440 everything

00:35:17.660 you

00:35:17.820 said

00:35:18.000 brother

00:35:18.280 chapter

00:35:18.940 and

00:35:19.160 verse

00:35:19.340 we

00:35:19.520 are

00:35:19.620 singing

00:35:19.860 from

00:35:20.040 the

00:35:20.180 same

00:35:20.360 hymnal

00:35:20.660 all

00:35:21.100 right

00:35:21.260 but

00:35:21.540 when

00:35:21.660 we

00:35:21.740 get

00:35:21.860 to

00:35:22.020 solutions

00:35:22.440 I

00:35:22.660 promise

00:35:23.020 you

00:35:23.280 just

00:35:23.840 deciding

00:35:24.320 you

00:35:24.480 know

00:35:24.600 what

00:35:24.820 the

00:35:25.140 boomers

00:35:25.500 did

00:35:25.680 just

00:35:25.940 the

00:35:26.120 tip

00:35:26.380 so

00:35:26.720 let's

00:35:26.920 go

00:35:27.080 for

00:35:27.220 the

00:35:27.340 full

00:35:27.540 conception

00:35:28.020 I

00:35:28.360 promise

00:35:28.760 you

00:35:29.020 it

00:35:29.340 will

00:35:29.500 reverb

00:35:29.820 on

00:35:30.140 you

00:35:30.300 badly

00:35:41.960 the

00:35:42.480 wealth

00:35:42.740 in

00:35:42.920 my

00:35:43.120 favor

00:35:43.480 I

00:35:43.920 promise

00:35:44.280 you

00:35:44.480 it

00:35:44.600 won't

00:35:44.800 work

00:35:45.060 it

00:35:45.220 goes

00:35:45.420 against

00:35:45.740 the

00:35:45.920 created

00:35:46.280 order

00:35:46.600 it

00:35:46.980 goes

00:35:47.160 against

00:35:47.500 what

00:35:47.700 the

00:35:47.840 creator

00:35:48.140 intended

00:35:48.600 he's

00:35:49.080 embedded

00:35:49.420 in

00:35:49.600 his

00:35:49.720 creation

00:35:50.120 we're

00:35:50.580 in

00:35:50.820 this

00:35:51.040 position

00:35:51.580 because

00:35:52.120 we

00:35:52.360 violated

00:35:52.900 the

00:35:53.120 created

00:35:53.420 order

00:35:53.760 we

00:35:54.200 just

00:35:54.400 did

00:35:54.580 it

00:35:54.680 for

00:35:54.820 corporations

00:35:55.520 all

00:35:56.080 right

00:35:56.180 we

00:35:56.520 actually

00:35:56.860 have

00:35:57.100 to

00:35:57.280 we

00:35:57.580 have

00:35:57.800 to

00:35:58.000 align

00:35:58.520 our

00:35:58.740 economics

00:35:59.360 with

00:35:59.840 human

00:36:00.160 nature

00:36:00.540 and

00:36:00.780 the

00:36:00.920 created

00:36:01.280 order

00:36:01.720 okay

00:36:02.640 so

00:36:03.000 the

00:36:03.320 debate

00:36:03.620 I

00:36:03.960 guess

00:36:04.140 sort

00:36:04.340 of

00:36:04.440 became

00:36:11.960 I'll

00:36:12.720 just

00:36:12.880 finish

00:36:13.220 laying

00:36:13.620 out

00:36:13.920 so

00:36:14.440 you

00:36:14.600 can

00:36:14.700 all

00:36:14.800 decide

00:36:15.040 who

00:36:15.160 you

00:36:15.240 want

00:36:15.400 to

00:36:15.620 vote

00:36:16.440 for

00:36:16.700 mass

00:36:18.360 migration

00:36:18.840 has

00:36:19.160 caused

00:36:19.620 rentals

00:36:20.420 to go

00:36:20.720 up

00:36:20.980 two

00:36:21.360 thirds

00:36:21.760 has

00:36:22.040 caused

00:36:22.400 food

00:36:22.820 prices

00:36:23.140 to

00:36:23.360 go

00:36:23.540 up

00:36:23.780 welfare

00:36:24.500 has

00:36:24.760 caused

00:36:24.920 food

00:36:25.140 prices

00:36:25.420 to

00:36:25.600 go

00:36:25.720 way

00:36:25.920 way

00:36:26.060 up

00:36:26.160 I'm

00:36:26.300 sorry

00:36:26.460 about

00:36:26.620 the

00:36:26.740 tip

00:36:27.200 we're

00:36:27.660 at

00:36:27.780 a

00:36:27.860 bar

00:36:28.100 but

00:36:28.320 I

00:36:28.520 thought

00:36:28.680 it

00:36:28.760 was

00:36:28.880 okay

00:36:29.200 and

00:36:31.420 then

00:36:31.580 Kai

00:36:31.940 your

00:36:32.140 point

00:36:32.400 is

00:36:32.620 so

00:36:32.880 Steve

00:36:33.300 your

00:36:33.480 argument

00:36:33.740 is

00:36:33.960 yeah

00:36:34.440 right

00:36:35.000 now

00:36:35.200 the

00:36:35.360 economy

00:36:35.700 is

00:36:35.840 rough

00:36:36.020 we

00:36:36.160 need

00:36:36.300 more

00:36:36.540 capitalism

00:36:37.140 Kai

00:36:37.720 your

00:36:37.900 answer

00:36:38.160 is

00:36:38.360 no

00:36:38.560 we

00:36:38.720 need

00:36:38.860 to

00:36:39.040 put

00:36:39.660 more

00:36:39.880 guardrails

00:36:40.300 on

00:36:40.460 capitalism

00:36:40.900 I would

00:36:41.600 like

00:36:41.780 to

00:36:41.900 try

00:36:42.140 capitalism

00:36:42.820 I'd

00:36:43.440 like

00:36:43.540 to

00:36:43.660 try

00:36:43.880 it

00:36:44.040 and

00:36:44.260 Kai

00:36:44.740 is

00:36:45.080 yeah

00:36:46.100 sure

00:36:46.380 mass

00:36:46.700 deportations

00:36:47.240 are great

00:36:47.580 but we

00:36:48.100 also

00:36:48.360 need

00:36:48.540 a

00:36:48.700 further

00:36:48.980 political

00:36:49.380 solution

00:36:49.920 to

00:36:50.300 condition

00:36:50.660 capitalism

00:36:51.300 give me

00:36:51.840 UBI

00:36:52.180 okay

00:36:52.580 keep

00:36:52.980 that

00:36:53.180 in

00:36:53.320 mind

00:36:53.580 for

00:36:53.740 when

00:36:53.900 you

00:36:54.020 cheer

00:36:54.220 later

00:36:54.500 now

00:36:54.740 we

00:36:54.900 turn

00:36:55.080 to

00:36:55.180 the

00:36:55.260 microphone

00:36:55.620 yes

00:36:56.260 sir

00:36:56.460 so

00:36:56.940 sorry

00:36:57.560 to

00:37:05.360 libertarian

00:37:05.720 I

00:37:06.400 don't

00:37:06.580 like

00:37:06.800 that

00:37:07.060 also

00:37:07.660 as

00:37:08.320 a

00:37:08.620 bible

00:37:08.900 believing 0.96

00:37:09.280 dirty 1.00

00:37:09.660 protestant 0.99

00:37:10.380 I

00:37:11.240 believe

00:37:11.460 that

00:37:11.880 definitionally

00:37:12.980 marriage is between a man and a woman

00:37:14.560 for the procreation and rearing of children

00:37:16.340 I think we can mostly agree with that

00:37:17.920 my follow up question to that

00:37:19.500 is

00:37:20.060 is it worth the political capital

00:37:22.180 to reinstate the definition of marriage in the United States

00:37:25.480 as between a man and a woman

00:37:26.740 or do we continue to allow

00:37:29.100 to be pragmatic

00:37:29.700 and to allow

00:37:31.100 people to be married

00:37:32.880 between two men

00:37:34.220 and two women 0.86

00:37:35.140 or

00:37:35.680 is it worth the political capital to try to go against that

00:37:38.380 I don't think it's going to cost political capital within five to ten years

00:37:42.240 I agree completely

00:37:42.980 you've already seen support for so-called same-sex marriage collapse

00:37:46.260 it's now down to 53% and it's in free fall

00:37:49.140 the reason for that is that the sexual revolution was taken to its extreme

00:37:53.260 in transgenderism and transing the kids

00:37:55.640 so as the logic from feminism through gay rights to gay marriage to trans

00:37:59.860 as it all went in that direction 0.95

00:38:01.300 we realized it was totally nuts

00:38:02.900 so too those premises are being unrolled in the other direction

00:38:05.740 so I don't think it's going to cost a lot of capital

00:38:07.420 and furthermore

00:38:08.740 I think you will have to get back to a sane definition of marriage

00:38:11.740 to protect children

00:38:12.900 to protect the fundamental building block of society

00:38:16.080 but also just because

00:38:17.620 it's so core

00:38:19.460 to human nature

00:38:20.900 and our understanding of reality

00:38:22.640 I mean you know

00:38:23.460 you can't have matrimony without mater 1.00

00:38:25.740 you know there's no matrimony between two fellas 1.00

00:38:28.240 so it's just so preposterous

00:38:29.920 it's unstable

00:38:31.260 it can't continue

00:38:32.200 yes sir

00:38:32.640 100% agree with that

00:38:34.260 you know it's funny

00:38:35.220 when I was heavily involved in all the marriage fights around the country

00:38:37.920 back in the day

00:38:38.640 and they always would say on the other side

00:38:40.660 we don't want any slippery slope arguments

00:38:42.300 slippery slope arguments are undefeated folks

00:38:45.340 undefeated

00:38:46.100 they never lose

00:38:46.860 all right

00:38:47.400 the only thing I disagree with Robert Bork about

00:38:49.540 is we do not slouch to Gomorrah

00:38:50.900 we sprint as a species

00:38:52.120 we sprint

00:38:53.020 we can't wait to get there

00:38:54.220 all right

00:38:54.500 every exit it says Gomorrah

00:38:56.040 and we're like pedal to the metal

00:38:57.100 all right

00:38:57.540 and so what you're seeing now

00:38:59.040 is all of the excesses

00:39:00.520 people like Michael and I argued about

00:39:02.320 when you guys were growing up

00:39:03.420 and Warren

00:39:04.060 this is what you really mean

00:39:05.460 I remember bringing those

00:39:06.760 bringing gay marriage advocates on my show

00:39:09.100 and saying

00:39:09.460 well what you're really arguing

00:39:10.480 is there's no such thing as gender

00:39:11.960 and they lose their minds

00:39:13.480 yeah

00:39:13.640 and what's funny is now

00:39:15.800 10 years later

00:39:16.800 there's no

00:39:17.580 gender is just a social construct 0.70

00:39:19.060 right

00:39:19.500 and so now

00:39:20.260 all of the excesses

00:39:21.620 that they said

00:39:22.140 we weren't going to see

00:39:22.880 well how does my gay marriage

00:39:24.700 impact your marriage

00:39:25.680 well other than literally

00:39:26.600 the definition of everything

00:39:27.880 and what we do with children

00:39:29.540 pretty much nothing

00:39:30.700 other than everything

00:39:31.400 right

00:39:31.800 and so now we're at that place

00:39:33.660 and the reverb on this

00:39:35.040 is a mofo

00:39:35.760 38% of Republicans 0.89

00:39:37.560 only 38%

00:39:38.920 support gay marriage now

00:39:40.700 only 58%

00:39:41.840 of the general public

00:39:43.140 and it's because

00:39:44.280 there was a moment there

00:39:45.620 where people like Andrew Sullivan

00:39:47.040 who's kind of the Ben Franklin

00:39:48.220 of the Rainbow Jihad 0.92

00:39:49.200 and after he got his big win

00:39:51.200 he said

00:39:51.780 you know what guys

00:39:52.480 we have to stop

00:39:53.200 right here

00:39:53.720 if you continue on with this

00:39:55.440 there's going to be pushback

00:39:56.840 and they're going to

00:39:57.320 they're going to repeal this

00:39:58.260 Andrew Sullivan got cancelled

00:40:00.000 for saying things like that

00:40:01.480 and so

00:40:02.340 like we have a group here

00:40:03.700 called Gays Against Groomers

00:40:05.060 that are doing some great work

00:40:06.180 in the marketplace

00:40:07.000 against some of this insanity

00:40:08.280 because they recognize

00:40:09.700 our inability

00:40:10.760 to police ourselves

00:40:12.020 there's no William F. Buckley

00:40:13.780 on the gay marriage side

00:40:14.740 saying well how much

00:40:15.360 of the John Birch Society

00:40:16.260 should we inherit

00:40:16.960 right

00:40:17.300 they're not

00:40:17.960 they can't do it

00:40:18.860 why

00:40:19.120 because the movement

00:40:20.080 in and of itself

00:40:20.800 is a lack of restraint

00:40:21.980 and a decoupling

00:40:23.360 from the created order

00:40:24.800 and so they cannot

00:40:25.800 just pause

00:40:26.640 they can't just moderate

00:40:27.940 it's pedal to the metal

00:40:29.480 to Gamora

00:40:29.980 and I agree with Michael

00:40:31.280 the stigma on this

00:40:32.920 on even our own side

00:40:34.620 is almost at zero now

00:40:35.980 and I think

00:40:36.760 we are way closer

00:40:37.840 I don't think

00:40:38.260 it'll take 50 years

00:40:39.120 to repeal Dobbs at all

00:40:40.560 like it did Roe

00:40:41.260 I don't

00:40:41.640 you know

00:40:42.440 just one quick correction Steve 0.91

00:40:43.840 there was a gay

00:40:45.100 William F. Buckley

00:40:45.860 and his name was Gore Vidal

00:40:46.800 but there's none today

00:40:48.780 that's true

00:40:49.140 go ahead

00:40:49.440 yeah I mean

00:40:49.960 I agree with the two gentlemen here

00:40:51.360 I think it was

00:40:51.940 the libertarianism

00:40:52.880 and it was

00:40:53.540 frankly you know

00:40:54.740 the fact that we didn't realize

00:40:56.080 just how serious

00:40:56.820 the opposite side was

00:40:58.120 that led us to where we are now

00:40:59.920 and the problem is that

00:41:00.660 with a lot of these rulings

00:41:01.780 from the Supreme Court

00:41:02.640 it is a lot tougher

00:41:04.200 to you know

00:41:04.760 put the cat back into the box

00:41:06.660 or whatever the saying is

00:41:07.780 the cat into the hat

00:41:08.520 it's really hard

00:41:11.140 to put the green eggs

00:41:11.940 in their hand

00:41:12.340 the cat's going somewhere

00:41:13.620 I don't know

00:41:14.200 but I do think

00:41:16.740 that that is a fight

00:41:17.700 that you absolutely have to take

00:41:19.100 like this definition of marriage

00:41:20.420 is absolutely crucial

00:41:21.640 and it does have

00:41:22.900 these cultural ramifications

00:41:23.980 and the perceptions

00:41:24.740 that people have

00:41:25.460 based off of legality

00:41:26.420 they absolutely exist

00:41:28.220 I mean this is a total lie

00:41:29.420 that we've been told

00:41:30.120 that well

00:41:31.020 you know really

00:41:32.140 we're just kind of changing

00:41:33.740 the legal code

00:41:34.520 it's not going to change

00:41:35.340 you know in reality

00:41:36.040 how people are interacting

00:41:37.060 with each other

00:41:37.620 or the families they're forming

00:41:38.520 or how their children turn out

00:41:39.840 all of that's a lie

00:41:40.620 so I think we should fight

00:41:41.560 tooth and nail

00:41:42.080 and unfortunately

00:41:42.960 it's that really bad

00:41:43.940 Supreme Court precedent

00:41:44.760 that always under assumes

00:41:46.000 what the future is going

00:41:46.880 to turn into

00:41:47.400 which is always yes

00:41:48.260 Sodom and Gomorrah

00:41:49.320 and I think

00:41:50.820 the problem is that now

00:41:52.620 you have this inability

00:41:54.060 and frankly

00:41:54.880 a lack of willingness

00:41:55.680 from even conservative

00:41:56.640 Supreme Court justices

00:41:57.500 to even review cases like that

00:41:59.340 I would be surprised

00:42:00.380 if we get a positive result

00:42:01.680 on birthright citizenship

00:42:03.180 despite the fact

00:42:04.020 that the framers

00:42:04.700 of the 14th amendment

00:42:05.600 very clearly

00:42:06.320 did not have in mind

00:42:07.380 that the child

00:42:07.820 of two illegal immigrants

00:42:08.720 would become an American citizen

00:42:09.840 as American as somebody

00:42:11.000 who came off the Mayflower

00:42:12.000 so that is a huge problem

00:42:13.900 of mine

00:42:14.240 okay

00:42:14.840 okay

00:42:15.980 so we're talking about

00:42:17.240 repealing Obergefell

00:42:18.540 definitely for that

00:42:19.900 would you say

00:42:21.500 this is my question

00:42:22.180 would you say

00:42:23.160 that our country

00:42:24.000 would be better off

00:42:25.380 if we had

00:42:26.900 like our grandparents

00:42:28.180 had

00:42:28.400 my grandparents

00:42:29.040 grew up in a time

00:42:30.260 where there were laws

00:42:31.340 against sodomy

00:42:32.320 there were laws

00:42:33.520 against cross-dressing

00:42:34.860 would our country

00:42:36.360 be better off

00:42:37.100 if we had laws

00:42:37.980 against sodomy

00:42:38.660 and laws against cross-dressing

00:42:39.900 today

00:42:40.680 in 2025

00:42:41.520 should Christians

00:42:42.520 and conservatives

00:42:43.200 pursue laws

00:42:44.680 against sodomy

00:42:45.220 and cross-dressing

00:42:45.660 well I just want to

00:42:46.420 jump in real quick

00:42:47.080 because not a lot

00:42:47.720 of people know this

00:42:48.420 it was only

00:42:49.400 less than a decade ago

00:42:50.500 that the state of Utah

00:42:51.800 the great state of Utah

00:42:52.980 unfortunately

00:42:54.660 and it made

00:42:55.900 itself less great

00:42:57.020 by doing so

00:42:57.640 repealed

00:42:58.200 an existing law

00:42:59.460 which had banned

00:43:00.180 premarital sex

00:43:01.080 I am not aware

00:43:01.940 of another state

00:43:03.620 that had such a law

00:43:04.520 but people forget

00:43:05.680 by the way

00:43:06.180 that I believe

00:43:06.760 I respect the Mormon

00:43:07.700 who says

00:43:08.080 I will be more

00:43:08.820 puritanical than you 0.96

00:43:09.920 I respect that

00:43:11.000 a lot of that

00:43:11.620 yes sir

00:43:12.180 yes sir

00:43:12.720 that's an ally

00:43:13.700 that's right

00:43:14.080 now I'm signing up

00:43:15.540 for that kind of

00:43:16.100 enmity right there

00:43:17.080 you bet

00:43:17.480 you know

00:43:17.880 the question

00:43:18.680 doesn't even need

00:43:19.380 to be all that

00:43:19.880 hypothetical

00:43:20.340 in as much as

00:43:21.280 Lawrence v. Texas

00:43:22.160 was what

00:43:22.720 20 years ago

00:43:23.440 that was the gateway

00:43:23.960 drug that got us

00:43:24.740 I mean

00:43:25.360 the argument

00:43:26.520 was made

00:43:27.000 by the Supreme Court

00:43:27.940 that there's a

00:43:28.720 constitutional right 0.99

00:43:29.700 to homosexual sodomy 1.00

00:43:31.180 which 0.99

00:43:31.720 you know

00:43:32.360 if you go through

00:43:32.800 the Federalist Papers

00:43:33.700 you won't find

00:43:34.620 a lot of references

00:43:35.360 to that

00:43:35.900 Thomas Jefferson

00:43:37.520 thought sodomy 0.99

00:43:38.400 in the military 0.96

00:43:38.880 should be a capital

00:43:39.640 offense

00:43:40.020 and they were

00:43:40.720 fighting the British 0.99

00:43:41.460 who were sort of

00:43:42.220 famous for that

00:43:42.920 so anyway

00:43:44.340 by the way

00:43:45.800 during the Crusades

00:43:46.560 the Muslims

00:43:47.060 when they were 0.95

00:43:47.740 away from their wives 1.00

00:43:48.560 they would bring

00:43:49.440 their pederast boy toys

00:43:50.620 with them to the war front 1.00

00:43:51.540 so they could rape them 1.00

00:43:52.600 and sodomize them 1.00

00:43:53.420 for sexual release 1.00

00:43:54.240 because they'd be 0.77

00:43:54.620 at the war front

00:43:55.180 for months

00:43:55.620 if not years

00:43:56.160 Christians have banned 1.00

00:43:57.620 sodomy throughout

00:43:58.460 the entire Christian history

00:43:59.700 whenever they had a chance

00:44:00.660 to rule in any society

00:44:01.580 and I'm wondering

00:44:02.120 if conservatives

00:44:03.400 I think

00:44:04.160 Christless conservatism

00:44:05.580 has destroyed our country

00:44:06.600 I think we need

00:44:07.480 Christ-filled conservatism 0.89

00:44:09.120 and that's what

00:44:09.740 gets our country back

00:44:10.380 but if we do that

00:44:11.060 that means we've got

00:44:11.540 to take some

00:44:11.920 very unpopular decisions

00:44:12.480 I'll give a little bit

00:44:13.780 more of a kind of

00:44:14.740 nuanced take

00:44:15.820 on sodomy laws

00:44:16.920 which are considered

00:44:17.600 sort of extreme

00:44:18.440 but ask yourself

00:44:19.280 why were sodomy laws 0.99

00:44:20.680 in principle on the books

00:44:21.720 even as of

00:44:22.680 20 or so years ago

00:44:23.820 these sorts of laws

00:44:25.720 were not typically

00:44:26.660 prosecuted

00:44:27.060 they were not even enforced

00:44:27.900 they were meant to be

00:44:29.580 an insurance

00:44:30.100 they were an insurance

00:44:31.320 against what is happening

00:44:32.260 to us right now

00:44:32.940 this is the thing

00:44:33.720 you know

00:44:34.080 that really

00:44:34.580 what the laws

00:44:35.200 were used for

00:44:35.980 were to shut down

00:44:36.840 places that were

00:44:37.380 very very dangerous

00:44:38.220 had those sorts of

00:44:39.200 laws been enforced

00:44:39.960 in the 1980s

00:44:41.260 a lot of lives

00:44:41.740 would have been saved

00:44:42.220 correct

00:44:42.520 but they weren't

00:44:43.260 really going

00:44:44.220 door to door

00:44:44.920 Iranian purity police 0.96

00:44:46.560 and so I don't think

00:44:47.400 and so I don't think

00:44:47.420 anybody wants that

00:44:48.160 we passed marriage laws

00:44:50.140 successfully in 31 states

00:44:51.720 in the 90s and 2000s

00:44:53.400 how many people

00:44:54.580 were in prison

00:44:55.240 in any of those states

00:44:56.160 for attempting

00:44:56.680 to get a gay marriage

00:44:57.440 zero

00:44:58.760 what Michael is saying

00:45:00.160 these were done

00:45:01.620 as insurance policies

00:45:03.320 pardon the pun

00:45:04.740 bulwarks

00:45:05.540 they were done

00:45:06.680 as bulwarks

00:45:07.320 against the very

00:45:08.900 Sodom and Gomorrah

00:45:10.800 and the depravity

00:45:12.100 that we're seeing today

00:45:13.040 and so I think

00:45:14.280 you have to understand

00:45:14.920 what the point

00:45:15.600 of these laws were

00:45:16.620 they were not

00:45:18.220 necessarily for

00:45:19.160 rounding up people

00:45:19.920 for their sexual practices

00:45:21.140 but they were meant

00:45:22.160 to be

00:45:22.500 essentially traffic cones

00:45:25.060 that said

00:45:25.420 you can't go past here

00:45:26.660 and that's why

00:45:27.920 they removed that cone

00:45:28.860 so they could go past there

00:45:30.000 right and I think

00:45:30.560 the importance of it

00:45:31.220 is stigma

00:45:31.760 is stigmatizing

00:45:32.880 things that God hates

00:45:33.900 standards and norms

00:45:35.960 all right

00:45:36.960 right on it

00:45:37.580 okay

00:45:37.880 folks

00:45:38.920 back to the

00:45:40.200 I don't even remember

00:45:40.780 what the original topic was

00:45:41.860 oh yeah

00:45:42.180 big government

00:45:42.740 capitalism based

00:45:44.000 or cringe

00:45:44.560 we need more true

00:45:45.780 capitalism to fix

00:45:46.960 the problem

00:45:47.320 no we need more

00:45:48.240 UBI and more

00:45:49.160 government intervention

00:45:49.880 who thinks

00:45:51.180 that capitalism

00:45:52.440 has never been tried

00:45:53.740 not once

00:45:54.300 he's trying to put

00:45:55.700 his thumb on the scale

00:45:56.280 who thinks that

00:45:57.040 Steve won

00:45:57.540 who thinks that

00:46:03.160 Kai won

00:46:03.880 I'll take it

00:46:07.720 Steve with a knockout

00:46:09.120 they all sound

00:46:11.580 like ties to me

00:46:12.280 okay

00:46:12.700 all right

00:46:13.000 we'll give it to Steve

00:46:13.540 okay

00:46:14.000 now

00:46:14.600 there's no time

00:46:15.740 what do you mean

00:46:16.460 there's no time

00:46:16.940 we gotta get to this one

00:46:18.100 I'm gonna tease it

00:46:19.120 I don't care

00:46:19.540 I'm gonna tease the issue

00:46:20.540 and then everyone

00:46:21.340 can boo you

00:46:22.280 for shutting down

00:46:23.120 a great topic

00:46:23.860 and a way more

00:46:25.120 interesting one

00:46:25.680 than claim two

00:46:26.260 the claim is

00:46:27.720 we need to stop

00:46:29.460 we need to stop

00:46:29.480 the demographic

00:46:30.580 transformation

00:46:31.400 of America

00:46:32.260 yes

00:46:32.640 all right

00:46:33.840 we have total agreement

00:46:34.720 100%

00:46:35.240 what does everyone

00:46:36.120 who thinks won that battle

00:46:37.420 he said yes

00:46:38.380 and he also said yes

00:46:39.520 well we won

00:46:43.520 okay

00:46:43.800 well typically nobody

00:46:44.820 wins a bar fight

00:46:45.740 and there are only losers

00:46:47.120 we're not really in a bar 0.76

00:46:49.000 even though they somehow

00:46:49.680 found booze to give me

00:46:50.740 we're at a convention center

00:46:52.220 so maybe someone can win

00:46:54.380 maybe someone can tie

00:46:56.760 it sounds like the first round

00:46:58.600 went to Kai

00:46:59.060 the second round

00:46:59.740 went to Steve

00:47:00.320 the third round

00:47:00.900 we didn't even debate

00:47:01.700 and we all won that one

00:47:02.860 who lost today

00:47:06.080 you're not cheering

00:47:07.460 for the winner

00:47:08.020 you're cheering

00:47:08.560 for the loser 0.99

00:47:09.300 who lost

00:47:09.940 was it Kai

00:47:11.080 I'm sensing a lot

00:47:15.380 of Kai's support

00:47:16.220 was it Steve

00:47:17.320 and you are

00:47:21.100 I know it was confusing

00:47:22.040 but I said

00:47:22.480 you know that was

00:47:23.480 the cheer

00:47:24.060 he lost

00:47:25.120 let's go

00:47:26.000 all right

00:47:26.360 I guess Steve lost

00:47:27.120 I thought Steve

00:47:27.800 had a lot of good arguments

00:47:28.500 gentlemen

00:47:28.820 thank you all

00:47:29.800 for coming on the show

00:47:30.840 thank you all

00:47:31.780 for being here

00:47:32.580 and see all of you

00:47:33.820 next time

00:47:34.480 on Bar Fight

00:47:35.500 all right

00:47:38.380 thank you Mike

00:47:38.980 that was great

00:47:39.960 thank you Mike

00:47:40.640 thank you

00:47:41.040 thank you

The Michael Knowles Show - December 20, 2025

Right Wing Civil War：＂Israel & Economy Crisis＂ HEATED Debate With Michael Knowles ｜ Bar Fight

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

The Michael Knowles Show - December 20, 2025

Right Wing Civil War： ＂Israel & Economy Crisis＂ HEATED Debate With Michael Knowles ｜ Bar Fight

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Right Wing Civil War：＂Israel & Economy Crisis＂ HEATED Debate With Michael Knowles ｜ Bar Fight