The Michael Knowles Show - The Great Hope To End Roe V. Wade ｜ Kristan Hawkins

00:00:00.000 It has been 49 years since Roe v. Wade created a fictional right to abortion in America.

00:00:08.160 That case was reaffirmed, slightly changed, but reaffirmed nonetheless in the Planned

00:00:13.640 Parenthood v. Casey decision. Now we are looking at what could be one of, if not the most

00:00:20.800 consequential case in the history of the Supreme Court, Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization,

00:00:27.360 abortion which could overrule all of it. It could kill Roe v. Wade. Roe v. Wade would be kept 0.73

00:00:34.840 comfortable. There would be a conversation that would ensue between the voters of America,

00:00:41.360 and we very possibly could end abortion in America. So who better to discuss these possibilities with

00:00:47.740 than the head of Students for Life, my friend Kristen Hawkins. Kristen, thank you for being here.

00:00:52.520 Thanks for having me today.

00:00:53.400 This is a monumental year. It's not 50 yet. The 49th, March for Life, it's 49 years

00:00:58.980 since Roe v. Wade. Is Roe going to make it to 50?

00:01:01.680 Absolutely not. There's a great hope that this June, when the Supreme Court hands down their

00:01:07.300 decision in Dobbs, that we will see a reversal, a gutting of Roe v. Wade.

00:01:12.520 And knowing that the Supreme Court can disappoint, and has disappointed, and conservative appointed

00:01:19.080 judges have disappointed. How confident are you that, while we're told this is a 6-3 conservative

00:01:25.280 court, John Roberts is not particularly conservative. Brett Kavanaugh, there are some questions. Neil

00:01:31.300 Gorsuch redefined sex in the Bostock case. Amy Barrett. So there are these, there are some

00:01:36.760 questions. Is there a possibility that you get a couple squishes and Roe continues?

00:01:41.220 Yeah, I think the question right now is Chief Justice Roberts and trying to broker some sort of

00:01:46.520 compromise there, where they would uphold the Mississippi law that bans painful abortions

00:01:53.260 at 15 weeks, these dismemberment abortions, which would then allow other states to go forth and ban 0.99

00:01:59.480 second and third trimester abortions. But then would they create a new standard? So the Casey standard 0.51

00:02:04.440 was viability. If they would come up with a compromise, it would be some sort of new standard,

00:02:08.680 like 15 weeks. But it's really difficult because really, you know, even last year,

00:02:14.060 one of the medical journals, they said that they think pain can actually even start at 12 and a half

00:02:18.560 weeks. So it's always kind of changing. That threshold is changing based on the newest research.

00:02:24.080 And it's just kind of a random standard because, you know, I can put an anesthetic on or say,

00:02:27.780 and I don't feel pain, so can you lop my hand off? I don't, I don't think that makes sense.

00:02:31.080 Absolutely. And viability changes depending on what hospital you were born in, what type of

00:02:35.720 equipment they have, you know, what kind of medical care your mother had. So even this viability 24-week

00:02:42.100 standard, there's babies being born who are living today who are born at 21 weeks. So that could be

00:02:50.260 the compromise. It would still be a win for the pro-life movement. Babies would still be saved.

00:02:54.860 I think that's probably the worst case scenario. You're saying the worst case scenario would be to

00:02:59.400 uphold the pro-life law, but not overrule Roe. Yes, but leave Roe intact and come up with some sort of

00:03:04.800 arbitrary new standard. The feeling on both sides, I believe, and I think you can read Planned

00:03:10.600 Parenthood's panicked fundraising emails and text messages that I get, is that because they were

00:03:16.880 willing to even take up the case, it means there's a significant majority willing to reconsider Roe

00:03:23.560 entirely. Well, that's wonderful news. We hope. Hope is a theological virtue. You are launching an

00:03:31.060 initiative called the final fight for freedom. That's right. We all fight for freedom. You hear

00:03:38.040 there are a lot of movements. Oh, that's the fight for freedom. We're fighting. We love freedom. Everyone

00:03:41.320 loves freedom. The most interesting word there to me is final. Why is this the final fight for freedom?

00:03:46.760 Well, we think about it as this battle of this first fight for freedom of the fight for Americans to

00:03:52.440 self-govern, right? To determine our fate. And then the second fight for freedom, determining that every

00:03:58.980 American deserves full rights, no matter their skin color, right? It was fought during the Civil War,

00:04:04.140 extended into the Civil Rights Movement. But then in 1973, something else happened when seven men said,

00:04:10.900 well, your right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is determined based on where you are,

00:04:17.640 your location, the fact that you are out of the womb. And it fundamentally disordered that hierarchy 0.77

00:04:22.960 of rights that we have, putting someone else's pursuit of happiness over someone else's right to 0.51

00:04:29.140 life. And we know throughout history, we have done that. Plessy, Dred Sky, that the court has had to go

00:04:35.020 back and reverse itself. But we feel like this is this final fight. Because as Abraham Lincoln said,

00:04:42.460 you have to give freedom to the slave in order to ensure freedom for the free. And if these

00:04:48.540 children, these innocent children don't have the freedom to be born, all our freedoms are at stake.

00:04:55.440 Because it's not as though the right to life is just one right among many. You know, you have the

00:05:00.540 right to life. We have the right to medical care, maybe. We have the right to a social security check.

00:05:06.440 No. And by the way, it's not even as though life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are all on

00:05:10.960 one level. That's right. As you, I think, imply quite well, you can't pursue happiness if you

00:05:16.740 don't have liberty. And you can't have liberty if you don't have a life. So, by the way, I don't

00:05:20.920 think that these leftists, these pro-abortion people who are screaming and yelling with their

00:05:28.340 crazy looking hair and their, you know, demonic sounding chants. The hats. And the hats, you know, 0.96

00:05:34.780 always. And I don't think they're really pursuing happiness. When I look at the Supreme Court,

00:05:39.800 I see the pro-lifers, they're nice. They seem so well-adjusted.

00:05:43.200 They feel like they are, but they are the most miserable people on earth. 0.99

00:05:45.740 The pro-abortion people, yes. That's right. So, they're not even pursuing happiness. I really... 0.99

00:05:50.180 Because they live for self. They don't live for others. It's the, you know, the principles of

00:05:54.220 universal happiness. Not to get theological.

00:05:56.980 Right. No, I mean, well, but I'm glad you brought that up because very often I find today a lot of

00:06:04.660 conservatives, pro-lifers. I know there are people on the left who are pro-life as well,

00:06:08.960 so I don't want to exclude them either. But very often, we will accept the scientistic,

00:06:15.600 materialist premises of our modern culture. So, we'll always try to ground everything in

00:06:20.760 biology. Why can't a hulking dude go into the girl's bathroom? Well, because the science shows 1.00

00:06:26.800 that he has a Y chromosome. No, well, there are other reasons too. Well, biologically,

00:06:31.160 the swimmer on the girl's team is a huge dude who has an obvious physical advantage.

00:06:35.980 It's more than just biology. It's more than just the baby in the womb feeling pain. It's more than

00:06:42.300 just a heartbeat even. It's what are we beyond the merely physical? And that requires philosophical

00:06:49.920 and theological engagement. You can't get around it.

00:06:53.160 That's right. And it's interesting because so often when we're on campuses,

00:06:56.620 we approach it from a scientific human rights standpoint. You know, we're not leading the

00:07:00.780 argument. I was doing an interview the other day and someone goes, well, why do you all bring up

00:07:03.740 religion? I'm like, the only time anyone ever actually brings up religion are pro-abortion

00:07:07.560 people who throw religion in my face. You brought it up. But since you have, let's talk about it. 0.91

00:07:13.440 Because we kind of already start with the premise that you know that human life has value. But that's

00:07:19.060 actually an interesting point because I started seeing this post-COVID and some of the conversations,

00:07:25.000 aka debates that I have, you know, folks who come to my speeches on campus where I've actually had

00:07:30.420 pro-abortion students. I'll back them up. We'll be talking about abortion. I'll be asking them

00:07:35.260 questions. And I'll actually back them up and say, well, let's stop talking about the pre-born.

00:07:40.200 Because I've already proved to you that that pre-born child is a human. I've proved that science

00:07:43.640 is not a giraffe. It's not a platypus.

00:07:46.020 Yes. I can't have a quality bear as much as I want a quality bear. I cannot make one with my

00:07:49.000 husband. I've tried. It won't happen. Right? So we've already proved it's a human. But what we're

00:07:54.500 disagreeing about is does that human being have value? But let's first start with,

00:07:58.300 do you have value? And where does your value come from? And that's actually very scary because we

00:08:03.020 do live in a post-Christian culture. They can't even answer the question. I had two kids, two young 1.00

00:08:09.500 boys, actually, last semester, who when I asked them, do you have value as a human being, told me no.

00:08:14.980 Right.

00:08:15.780 Honestly. I mean, these were genuine discussions. And they genuinely didn't believe they had value.

00:08:20.480 So this is a major cultural problem.

00:08:23.060 Because, I mean, I speak as, I was an atheist for 10 years. I'm quite familiar with the very

00:08:28.000 shallow atheistic arguments. And they, I think in sincerity, are looking around and they say,

00:08:33.540 okay, if I can't see it, if I can't touch it, it's not real. And so my hopes, my joys, my loves,

00:08:40.120 my dreams, mathematics, and certainly God himself, the maker of the universe, I can't really see them.

00:08:45.720 I can't comprehend. So it's just not real. And then if you look around and say, okay, if the matter

00:08:52.200 is all that really matters, then no, I don't have any value. But it's funny on this topic of religion

00:08:59.500 that the left is always throwing religion at you because they accuse religious people of magical

00:09:05.180 thinking, of fantastical thinking.

00:09:07.180 Justice Sotomayor, I think, just did that in the Dobbs hearing.

00:09:10.100 Right. And could you, could you imagine any more magical thinking, any more fantastical thinking

00:09:15.780 than believing that a baby is a baby if you want the baby, but a baby is not a baby if you don't

00:09:23.000 want the baby. And if, if a pregnant woman is murdered, then that is double homicide. But if 0.55

00:09:29.360 the woman herself chooses to go and kill the baby, that's not homicide at all. How do they, how do they

00:09:36.340 make that argument? Not for, not very convincingly, I guess.

00:09:40.080 Yeah. I mean, it's a dumb founding argument, right? It makes you want to take your head and 0.97

00:09:43.660 pound it against the ball because you can point out, I mean, those are the arguments when folks

00:09:47.480 come to my presentations on campus, I love because all I do is have to repeat back what they said to

00:09:52.680 me. And I know they themselves have changed the minds of those mushy in the audience. I haven't had

00:09:57.880 to say anything. I just pointed out the illogical position that those who accept abortion have to

00:10:04.080 take. They have to take this illogical argument. And in fact, like, I mean, it goes on because

00:10:08.880 then you can ask, well, what separates a newborn child from a child who's a month old outside of

00:10:13.560 the womb? What's the difference there? Right. I know that some people, especially people who

00:10:18.280 haven't had kids, they think that there is a huge categorical difference between a three-day-old

00:10:23.820 baby and a baby in the womb. Your baby cannot do anything on his or her own until, well, probably

00:10:31.160 until he's about 12, but certainly not. I'm a 12-year-old. It's going to be later than that,

00:10:35.160 I think. Right. Certainly a newborn baby is just as helpless, is just as vulnerable, is just as much

00:10:41.820 in need of his or her mother. They're actually more time-consuming, more expensive. I love to be

00:10:47.600 pregnant. Being pregnant is easy. I took a baby with me everywhere I was. Having a newborn, I had to take

00:10:52.320 all the gear, I had to take all the medicine for my children. Like, it was crazy, like all much stuff.

00:10:56.560 It took us like two hours just to go to Applebee's. Right. And yes, we go to Applebee's because we're

00:11:01.420 boring Midwesterners. But I mean, so it's unbelievable the logical positions that in order to be pro-abortion 0.89

00:11:09.360 now in our culture with all the science and technology, all technology has proved that you

00:11:14.860 have to accept. It's clearly a logical argument. So with all of this kind of crazy magical thinking

00:11:20.180 that's going on, especially on college campuses, you're seeing religion rates plummeting. You're seeing

00:11:25.500 sexual confusion go through the roof. You're seeing men who believe that they're women and

00:11:29.280 vice versa. And everybody has 10 different genders and we are legion or something.

00:11:35.200 What about pro-life? Are we losing the youths or is pro-life gaining momentum on campus?

00:11:41.160 We actually gain momentum. We just, our Students for Life's Institute for Pro-Life Advancement just

00:11:45.140 released a poll this week of Gen Z, Gen Y, the third of our electorate, the largest voting bloc,

00:11:52.000 good thing or bad thing. Mostly a bad thing for Republicans, I would say. And the poll numbers

00:11:57.280 aren't as bad as you would think they are. In fact, they're pretty nuanced. And in many ways,

00:12:01.540 we win. Six out of 10 originally said they supported Roe. We, in one line, told them what

00:12:08.100 Roe and Doe did, right? That these two decisions, 1973, allowed abortion in all nine months for whatever

00:12:13.040 reason. 10% instant shift, 10-point shift. Then we were 50-50. Wow. Instantly. With one line.

00:12:21.320 Just explaining what the cases are. Just explain. When we talked about chemical abortion,

00:12:24.860 the rise of, now this is going to be the most prevalent form of abortion this year. This is

00:12:28.120 what the Biden administration has been rushing through. The day that they pulled the Johnson

00:12:31.560 and Johnson vaccine because one person died, the FDA came out and said they were pulling all

00:12:35.680 common sense regulations on chemical abortion pills, even though dozens of women have died.

00:12:40.860 And all the babies have died. And all the babies have died. They pulled those regulations in

00:12:44.600 December. When we polled young people, and by the way, the majority of the poll were not

00:12:49.860 conservatives. 66 out of 10% were wanting these common sense regulations who thought it was like,

00:12:57.500 duh, a woman should be confirmed that she's actually pregnant before she's given these drugs. 1.00

00:13:03.060 It should be confirmed that she's not experiencing an atomic pregnancy that could kill her. 1.00

00:13:06.740 It should be confirmed that she's not RH negative, so she'll never be able to carry another child to 0.99

00:13:12.420 term. I mean, these things make sense to even pro-choice or liberal-leaning young people.

00:13:17.740 And so the numbers aren't as bad as many conservatives think when it comes to abortion. In fact,

00:13:22.160 when I'm at conservative events, I'm always telling the run-of-the-mill conservative, like,

00:13:27.480 you actually need me. I'm like your best marketing arm for the Republican movement because

00:13:32.120 this is a movement that brings a diverse group of students and young people in. We're a very diverse

00:13:37.940 movement, Students for Life, because they see this not as a political battle, but as a human rights

00:13:43.160 battle. They've seen their brothers and sisters be a ultrasound. Many folks come into our movements

00:13:48.440 and our campus groups, our third-time groups, not political at all, don't want to pay attention to

00:13:54.460 politics. But then as they kind of get sucked into the movement, they say, oh my goodness, if I care about

00:13:59.400 this, I need to care about that. And then I slowly get to witness the transformation from like

00:14:04.680 liberal, atheist, Democrat to sold out, you know, confirmed staffer working on Capitol Hill for one

00:14:12.440 of the top Republicans in the Senate or someone going into the priesthood. I mean, the atheists 1.00

00:14:17.320 who then became evangelical, you know, I mean, like it's crazy the transformations that begin.

00:14:21.280 This is a great observation because for many years we have been told by conservatives,

00:14:25.980 by the squishy conservatives. The people here in DC. Yes, we're speaking from DC right now. The

00:14:31.220 March for Life is happening. The Students for Life Summit is happening. And there are a lot of

00:14:34.620 swamp creatures around here who are squishes. And they say the way that you're going to bring over

00:14:38.280 liberals and independents and leftists is just don't talk about the culture. Just talk about

00:14:43.800 lowering taxes. And then once people want their taxes lowered, then they'll come in on these other

00:14:47.580 issues. But what you're saying, it's the opposite. If you convince someone that human life

00:14:52.440 matters. And we are the ones who care about human life. I mean, that's the thing too, is

00:14:56.440 the accusation often waged against pro-lifers is that we don't care about women, right? What are we

00:15:01.400 going to do when Roe is reversed? When thousands and thousands of women, or even though thousands 1.00

00:15:05.980 and thousands of women certainly did not die per year of back alley abortions before Roe, but... 0.83

00:15:10.720 Yeah, but what are we going to do without the women? You say, oh, by the way, have you ever met 0.97

00:15:13.500 the pro-life movement? We've been offering nearly 2,000 pregnancy centers every single day for

00:15:17.780 decades. We offer all of these resources and support. This is who the pro-life movement is.

00:15:22.860 We're actually a movement of love and compassion. We really put our money where our mouth is.

00:15:27.780 What better way to show young people who may have a negative brand associated with the word

00:15:33.500 Republican or conservative that we care about people? Because we're fighting for them just to

00:15:38.180 be born in the first place. That's right. This is very basic stuff. You convince them on life,

00:15:42.520 on things that matter. The taxes will follow. You really are in the fight. I am very excited

00:15:47.320 for this next initiative, for all the great work. And gosh, we have so much more to talk about.

00:15:53.180 What are we going to do after Roe versus Wade? How are we going to keep fighting? Not just to send

00:15:57.280 this issue back to the states, but to end abortion nationwide. We're going to have to hold that 0.77

00:16:01.620 until after they overrule Roe, and we'll have you back.

00:16:03.820 Yeah, and go to studentsforlife.org slash fight. We have our whole battle plan for post-Roe,

00:16:07.460 so you can download it for free and get all the details.

00:16:10.100 Terrific. Kristen Hawkins of Students for Life, a great organization that I'm very excited to speak to

00:16:16.120 on this 49th anniversary of not just Roe versus Wade, but the 49th anniversary of the pro-life

00:16:23.000 movement, gaining more and more strength each year, and hopefully getting a whole lot more

00:16:27.500 strength this year as we move into a post-Roe world. See you next time. 1.00

00:16:30.940 We'll see you next time.

00:16:42.320 We'll see you next time.

The Michael Knowles Show - February 06, 2022

The Great Hope To End Roe V. Wade ｜ Kristan Hawkins

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