The Michael Knowles Show - The Interview They Didn't Want You To See： Michael & The Trans Widow

00:00:00.000 I thought we were going to get marriage counseling.

00:00:05.740 She told me that I was closed-minded because I wasn't on board with all of the cross-dressing.

00:00:11.060 She also told me that I must be a lesbian because I had fallen in love with a man that

00:00:19.100 had this feminine side to him.

00:00:21.440 In 2010, the kids were ordered and told they could no longer call their father dad.

00:00:30.000 When we hear about transgenderism, which these days would appear to be all the time, it's

00:00:43.720 almost always from the perspective of the transgender person, the person who feels that he is the

00:00:50.280 opposite sex, what it means to be liberated from the shackles of oppression or whatever.

00:00:56.400 Sometimes we hear about transgenderism from the perspective of a child, though in that

00:01:03.820 case it's also often ostensibly from the perspective of a transgender person, the trans child who

00:01:09.860 is coming to grips with his true identity and transitioning.

00:01:14.740 There is one group of people whose perspective we never hear about when we talk about transgenderism,

00:01:22.520 and that would be the women who are abandoned by their husbands, husbands who leave their

00:01:31.480 families to pursue the transgender identity.

00:01:36.580 I am joined by one such trans widow, Tracy Shannon.

00:01:41.680 Tracy, thank you for being here.

00:01:43.120 Thank you for having me.

00:01:44.740 Tracy, let's just start from the beginning.

00:01:47.880 What happened?

00:01:48.700 Tracy, I guess if we're starting from the beginning, we'd have to go back to early in my marriage

00:01:55.100 to my first husband, and it became apparent that he had an issue of cross-dressing.

00:02:02.380 So at some point, right after the birth of our first child, my baby was in the hospital, and

00:02:11.720 my husband came to see us and informed me that he had an issue of cross-dressing, and that it was more than

00:02:19.820 just what I had noticed in the first four years of our marriage, occasionally finding a piece, article of

00:02:28.820 clothing missing, you know, that was mine, and in his possession, or walking in on him, doing his fingernails,

00:02:36.900 or shaving, or shaving, and being in a state of arousal while shaving, which is totally normal

00:02:41.640 for women, right?

00:02:42.860 No.

00:02:43.800 So it was more than that, he said, that he had had the issue of cross-dressing going all

00:02:49.760 the way back to when he was a teenager, when he would borrow items of his mother's without

00:02:54.860 her knowing and try them on.

00:02:57.220 So at that point, I said, well, we should go get counseling, you know, wanting to save

00:03:03.880 our marriage, and I didn't know it, but he was already seeing a counselor, and that would

00:03:10.060 be the counselor that we would go to.

00:03:12.560 So she...

00:03:14.740 Did he tell you at this point, I'm seeing a counselor, and we should go talk to this

00:03:19.880 person to get...

00:03:20.520 No.

00:03:20.800 No.

00:03:21.300 I had no idea he had seen a counselor.

00:03:23.500 So you went into the counseling with this doctor without knowing that they already had

00:03:30.220 a relationship.

00:03:31.200 Right.

00:03:31.780 Okay.

00:03:32.320 And I thought our purpose was to save our marriage, and in my mind, that meant we would

00:03:40.140 come to the natural conclusion that this was hurtful to me, that he was cross-dressing,

00:03:45.520 and that it was damaging our marriage, and that he would find a way to stop.

00:03:50.780 I was given all these excuses for why he might cross-dress, and none of them were that he

00:03:56.060 felt like he was a woman, by the way, but usually they were all my fault, according to

00:04:02.700 him.

00:04:03.440 So I thought we were going to get marriage counseling, and I thought the natural conclusion

00:04:09.580 would be that he would stop cross-dressing.

00:04:12.160 But instead, when we talked to the therapist, she told me that I was closed-minded because I

00:04:18.680 wasn't on board with all of the cross-dressing, and she suggested that he be able to go out

00:04:24.800 with these men on their cross-dressing field trips and dinners on the weekends and in the

00:04:32.220 evenings without my knowledge, and I wouldn't have to know where he was going, but he would

00:04:37.080 just tell me something, and it would be out of sight, out of mind.

00:04:40.780 If I didn't know about it, it shouldn't bother me.

00:04:42.900 And that he could have a P.O. box, even, where he would get catalogs where he could order

00:04:48.800 female clothes, and he would just hide all that stuff from me, and I'd never have to know

00:04:54.340 about it.

00:04:54.980 And because I wasn't okay with that, I was closed-minded.

00:05:00.200 I hope that this marriage counselor has had her license revoked.

00:05:04.780 I don't know if they have licenses.

00:05:05.580 Has anyone ever said the key to a happy marriage is deception, not knowing where your spouse

00:05:13.540 is, the pursuit of bizarre sexual fetishes that make the other person uncomfortable?

00:05:18.820 Has anyone ever in history said that until five minutes ago?

00:05:22.880 Well, this was in 1998, and so apparently this therapist who actually taught a class for many

00:05:29.380 years in Houston about how to have a long and lasting relationship, she also told me that

00:05:35.940 I must be a lesbian because I had fallen in love with a man that had this so-called inner

00:05:44.840 feminine side to him, which I didn't know anything about except for the fact that he borrowed my

00:05:51.300 bra when he went on a business trip one time, or I caught him applying nails or shaving a couple

00:05:58.060 times, but I just didn't buy into that there's this inner female or feminine side that he needed

00:06:06.820 to express to be able to relax.

00:06:08.680 So before that, I was closed-minded, and I must be a lesbian because obviously I fell in love

00:06:13.680 with him and married him, so therefore I'm a lesbian.

00:06:16.420 There is so much to unpack on the premises even of what a lesbian would even be if you could

00:06:24.200 be attracted to a man, someone who looks exactly like a man, but on some weird, deep, new age

00:06:30.060 kind of level is really a woman or whatever.

00:06:32.540 But you gave a simpler explanation earlier.

00:06:35.760 I don't want to get too graphic, I guess, but you say you walk in on your husband, he's

00:06:41.160 cross-dressing, and he's in a state of arousal.

00:06:43.600 So all of these explanations as to why he's cross-dressing, you say that he blamed you for

00:06:48.120 this, I guess now people would say that he's secretly a woman, but it would appear to me

00:06:54.980 in my untutored view of things, you got the answer, which is it's a sexual fetish, and

00:07:00.180 he was aroused by the thought of being a woman or wearing women's clothing.

00:07:05.400 And so, I don't know, some guys like legs, and I guess this guy likes putting on women's

00:07:10.060 clothing, but it's a fetish.

00:07:12.560 It's a kind of base sexual desire.

00:07:14.420 Right, I always felt instinctively that it was a type of infidelity, that there was this

00:07:21.100 elusive other woman he was creating to spend time alone with, and that this was hampering

00:07:26.940 our intimacy and our marriage.

00:07:29.300 But in fact, it's even worse, you know, this particular therapist, you asked about what

00:07:33.980 she's doing now.

00:07:34.780 Well, now she's written a book to help parents transition their children.

00:07:38.980 It's a confusing topic, and obviously you've gone through it so personally.

00:07:43.640 And so, with such trauma, but you go to the counseling, this woman takes your husband's

00:07:50.900 side and says, no, you've got to be open-minded and let him go gallivant with the boys dressed

00:07:55.100 up in high heels and have his own P.O. box and basically choose his sexual fetish over

00:08:01.260 your marriage.

00:08:03.100 Then what?

00:08:04.000 It's worse than that.

00:08:05.160 She actually wrote him the letter to transition while we were married.

00:08:09.880 And this was early on in our marriage.

00:08:12.780 We were married for a total of 15 years.

00:08:14.660 This was in the fourth year of our marriage.

00:08:16.720 So at this time, she wrote the letter for him to transition.

00:08:20.360 And he then got on hormone therapy and started to develop little breasts while we were married.

00:08:27.660 I was told the reason for the breast development was that he was taking OCD medication to help

00:08:34.360 him not want to cross-dress.

00:08:35.920 So I actually felt sorry for him that he was developing these breast buds that were embarrassing,

00:08:42.320 that he would wear a T-shirt when we went to the public swimming pool with our kids.

00:08:49.040 I mean, I felt sorry for him.

00:08:50.520 And I was trying to just be a loving wife, and it affected things.

00:08:58.760 You know, I feel very deceived that he was having this lesbian fantasy and growing these

00:09:07.060 breasts while we were married and having intimate relations.

00:09:10.980 I think that totally undermines the idea of consent that is so popularized by, you know,

00:09:18.520 used by the left to onboard all these other things that we don't agree to as Christians

00:09:26.040 and conservatives, especially when they're talking about our kids.

00:09:29.960 So...

00:09:30.480 Well, you know, you talk about this term trans widow.

00:09:34.980 And I think people lose parents.

00:09:37.560 And it's hard to lose a parent when you're young.

00:09:39.360 But it happens, and there's a kind of a comfort in knowing that person is gone.

00:09:46.340 And there's a finality to it.

00:09:47.840 There's a closure to it, even if it's painful.

00:09:51.640 Wives lose their husbands, and they die.

00:09:54.300 It's sad, but there is a finality to it, and you can grieve it.

00:09:58.280 But in this case, the person is still there.

00:10:02.720 They just deny who they are.

00:10:04.760 And so you have all the downside of it with none of the comfort, even with this question

00:10:12.380 of infidelity.

00:10:13.500 If your husband had just been having an affair, it's ugly, nasty, terrible, you could grieve

00:10:18.820 it.

00:10:20.080 This seems particularly insidious because the person he's having an affair with, the other

00:10:26.280 woman, is just a version of himself.

00:10:28.880 It's so much darker.

00:10:33.560 Right.

00:10:34.580 And there's this ambiguous grief that the kids have to process and that the wife has

00:10:41.820 to process.

00:10:42.860 Losing the person you've known for years and the only father that the kids have ever known.

00:10:49.680 And not only does the outward appearance change, but their behavior, their interests change.

00:10:57.140 My son, my oldest, had bought my husband, ex-husband, a book when we were still married, when he was

00:11:04.880 10 years old.

00:11:05.660 It was called The Dangerous Book for Boys.

00:11:07.720 It's a big red book, hard cover, and it has all kinds of activities for a father and son

00:11:13.420 to do together.

00:11:14.700 And they did one activity.

00:11:16.920 I think it was making paper airplanes, one time.

00:11:20.800 And after that, it just went on a shelf and collected dust and never to be picked up again

00:11:26.900 by my then-husband, by his father.

00:11:30.780 And it had a nice note in the front that my son had written about how he wanted to do all

00:11:36.540 these things with him, and he was really looking forward to it.

00:11:39.420 But instead, his father would become a fake woman and would lose interest in doing all those

00:11:45.500 boy things with him, and who would he do those boy things with after that?

00:11:49.160 Who would do the father-son things with him?

00:11:51.480 People don't ever hear about the heartbreaking reality or the many nights that my children

00:11:58.300 cried themselves to sleep, and I had to get up out of bed and go comfort them because they

00:12:03.340 miss their father.

00:12:05.540 And although they did see him dressed as a woman, it's not the same.

00:12:10.220 There was no funeral to say goodbye to the father.

00:12:13.360 There's no sympathy for me as a trans widow.

00:12:18.920 Instead, when I told someone that my husband was transitioning and that was what caused the

00:12:25.520 end of our marriage, they would say to me, and they still say today, even this morning,

00:12:30.680 a woman said to me something similar.

00:12:33.500 Well, at least he can be happy now.

00:12:35.160 Or no, I'm sorry, she, at least she can be happy now.

00:12:39.960 And how did it affect her and her family?

00:12:44.240 And I mean, people feel like they have to obey this ideology, even when the person we're

00:12:50.880 talking about is not around, that they're going to respect these pronouns.

00:12:55.520 It's just a weird brainwashing that's overcome America to the degree that we have no empathy

00:13:03.680 for the people that we should be having empathy for.

00:13:06.160 We're told to feel sorry for the person who's cross-dressing their ass off or the fetishist,

00:13:13.360 the person who's doing this transition.

00:13:17.480 But no one's even talking about what's happening to the kids in this, what they're missing, and

00:13:22.660 what happens to the women.

00:13:24.380 My ex had a very good six-figure salary when he left.

00:13:29.760 It's even better now.

00:13:31.260 So contrary to what they say, these guys are not all poor.

00:13:36.780 I think you recognize that Deirdre McCloskey is not poor.

00:13:41.800 Yes, this professor, I was supposed to debate this professor on gender, and he identifies

00:13:47.080 as a woman.

00:13:47.780 He's an economist, but multiple degrees from Harvard.

00:13:50.660 Very successful, affluent by all measures.

00:13:55.940 Well, we're supposed to feel sorry for them because they just have a hard time with a career

00:14:00.140 and all that, because the bigoted Americans.

00:14:02.720 But that's really not the case.

00:14:04.160 My ex has a good career.

00:14:05.380 So there are many of the people that he's friends with that came and testified in our divorce

00:14:12.520 case that they were great parents and that he was a great parent, even though they spent

00:14:17.560 no time, no time around him.

00:14:19.940 The part that's so hard for me to get is, I guess it keeps coming back to this word fetish,

00:14:26.680 because the original meaning of fetish refers to an idol, like a religious idol.

00:14:34.440 You know, the pagans have their fetishes.

00:14:35.960 And I guess it still does.

00:14:39.180 You know, this idea that you would put some glittering object, be it a body part or a fantasy

00:14:46.580 or just anything, above reality and above the things that you're supposed to care for the

00:14:53.640 most.

00:14:54.140 To say, okay, I've got a choice here.

00:14:56.100 I can either live up to my marriage vows and be a husband to my wife and be a father to my

00:15:01.740 children, or I can titillate myself by putting on a dress.

00:15:07.140 And to think that when confronted with these irreconcilable choices, you cannot, if you

00:15:13.860 identify as a woman, you cannot be a husband to your wife.

00:15:16.820 That's foreclosed.

00:15:17.620 You cannot be a father to your children if you're going to pretend to be a woman.

00:15:20.900 And they would say, I'm going to choose to titillate myself with the high heels and the skirt

00:15:26.780 over my wife and my kids and any obligation that I might have, and to be celebrated for

00:15:34.180 doing it.

00:15:34.860 Right.

00:15:35.160 And in our case, you know, destroying the family, wrecking the marriage, we had to move

00:15:39.660 out of our family home.

00:15:41.320 You had to move out.

00:15:41.960 He didn't move out.

00:15:42.840 We both ended up moving out, but he had an income.

00:15:46.280 I was a stay-at-home mom for 10 years at that time, so I didn't have a job.

00:15:51.780 And I had homeschooled my kids, so everything had to change for us.

00:15:55.000 We were homeless, so I had to go live with my mom and dad in their house for a couple

00:16:01.840 of years while I got on my feet financially because it took time.

00:16:06.040 And the court only initially ordered him to pay $500 a month child support for three kids.

00:16:10.600 So I was trying to make it all come together.

00:16:13.600 And that's part of the father's role, man's role, provider.

00:16:17.880 And to think that now it's just okay that the state will tell you, you know, how much

00:16:23.740 you'll provide, and other than that, you don't have to do anything because of the fetish

00:16:28.680 that you wanted to indulge.

00:16:30.020 It's just really insulting to the family.

00:16:32.920 And that society actually thinks this is okay.

00:16:36.480 They think this is okay because kids are supposedly really resilient.

00:16:39.640 Oh, if I hear that phrase, if I never heard that phrase again in my life, it would be too

00:16:43.940 soon.

00:16:44.180 Because, you know, it's only ever used to justify child abuse.

00:16:48.740 It's only ever used to, oh, yes, dad ran off, and, you know, the parents are fighting, and

00:16:55.560 the kid is being trans, and his education is being neglected.

00:16:58.680 Oh, don't worry.

00:16:59.920 Kids are resilient.

00:17:01.340 Well, they're not so resilient.

00:17:02.820 It's had really hard consequences for my children.

00:17:06.720 And I think if you looked at them, you'd think they're doing great, especially considering

00:17:11.600 all the negative things that can happen to children of divorce and children in alternative

00:17:17.940 type of families and everything they've been exposed to, which maybe we'll get into that.

00:17:24.420 But they look like they're doing fine.

00:17:26.980 But it's been a long way.

00:17:29.160 How old are they now?

00:17:30.060 So they're all over 18 now.

00:17:31.940 My youngest with him is 19, and I have a 20-year-old and a 24-year-old.

00:17:39.200 And so between the three of them, there have been six suicide attempts of different degrees

00:17:47.780 of seriousness, and one hospitalization in a mental health facility for a pretty good period

00:17:55.860 of time, for one.

00:17:56.960 And now our haters would say, that's because I didn't accept this ideology and take my kids

00:18:05.580 to some type of indoctrination, like GLAAD.

00:18:10.940 And in fact, that was one of the things that was brought up, that they wanted me to have

00:18:15.200 to take my kids for re-education.

00:18:18.220 Who wanted that?

00:18:19.100 His lawyers, when we first were divorcing.

00:18:21.620 And in fact, when we went to court, the kids were, the first time we went to court, because

00:18:28.060 we went twice, because if you dare tell a transgender no, you're going to get spanked and sued, which

00:18:34.380 is what happened.

00:18:35.060 And I got sued for full custody of my kids a second time after we had already settled the

00:18:39.680 divorce, because I dared to tell him that you couldn't have your lover spending the night

00:18:45.560 with my kids.

00:18:46.320 You just can't move your lover in.

00:18:47.980 We have a morality clause.

00:18:49.280 It's something that we have in Texas that basically says that...

00:18:52.640 Hold on, I've got to stop you there.

00:18:54.560 This is happening in Texas.

00:18:56.440 Yes.

00:18:56.860 I knew you lived in Texas.

00:18:57.900 Now, this is happening, this whole thing is going on in supposedly the most conservative

00:19:01.760 state in the country?

00:19:03.160 Yes.

00:19:03.520 And originally, we started our divorce in Ohio.

00:19:06.120 And Ohio actually would treat a woman like myself way better.

00:19:09.540 We actually would have got spousal support.

00:19:11.540 Someone like me would get spousal support for life, unless we remarried.

00:19:15.260 But in Texas, it's worse.

00:19:16.480 They can walk away with their six-figure income, leave you homeless with hardly any child support

00:19:20.960 while they go right off into the sunset in a skirt.

00:19:24.620 And you have to figure out how you're going to put your life together, pay for daycare,

00:19:29.000 pay for three kids.

00:19:30.460 And you're cut down to half the time with your kids, less than half, because I homeschooled

00:19:35.460 them.

00:19:35.760 So I had them half the time, plus when they were with me, they were in school.

00:19:40.240 So all the time we had together, because they had to go to public school, he got an injunction

00:19:44.680 against me homeschooling for no reason.

00:19:47.900 The homeschooling wasn't even part of the discussion in our divorce pleadings.

00:19:52.800 But at the very end, he asked for it, and he got it.

00:19:55.600 That was in 2010.

00:19:58.840 And in 2010, the kids were ordered to court-ordered therapy, where they were coached on the right

00:20:07.420 pronouns to use for their father, and told they could no longer call their father dad.

00:20:12.120 So the right pronouns, meaning the wrong pronouns.

00:20:14.900 Yeah, the wrong ones.

00:20:15.820 Yeah.

00:20:15.920 They had to call their dad, she and her, and couldn't call him dad.

00:20:20.840 That's right.

00:20:21.440 And they had to come up with a new name to call him, which I think is probably one of the

00:20:25.140 most heartbreaking things of the whole thing.

00:20:28.300 I mean, they're already feeling ghosted, and now you have professionals with the power

00:20:33.140 of the state behind them, telling them that they can't call their father dad.

00:20:38.460 Eventually, they no longer went along with that.

00:20:41.380 So the kids maintained a relationship with him.

00:20:44.540 I guess they had to, even if they didn't want to, they had to, ordered by the court.

00:20:49.440 Right.

00:20:49.860 And they loved their dad, but they were very confused, and one was really scared when this

00:20:55.140 initially happened to even go with their dad, because of the changes in appearance, and

00:20:59.220 the strange people that he was taking the kids around.

00:21:02.580 He's obviously insane.

00:21:04.120 He's just a crazy person, right?

00:21:06.720 A sane person doesn't do this.

00:21:08.220 Well, the root of it is selfishness.

00:21:11.160 And, you know, the kids were not a fan.

00:21:15.580 They have different relationships with them between the three.

00:21:18.560 One has none at all, is not interested, the oldest.

00:21:22.260 The middle child maintains a relationship.

00:21:25.180 He's a traditional Catholic.

00:21:27.660 He wants to remain present to remind his father who he really is, and he continues to pray for

00:21:35.060 him that he will have a complete conversion.

00:21:36.960 And then the youngest is involved with him more than anybody, but part of that is because

00:21:45.820 financially, she can get what she wants from him.

00:21:51.520 Right.

00:21:52.200 Okay.

00:21:52.780 So they've got these different degrees of relationship now as adults, but at the time,

00:21:57.900 your ex-husband is involved with someone else, and you said has a lover that he's bringing

00:22:06.580 around.

00:22:08.160 And this person, I assume, is in the community as well?

00:22:12.760 Oh, yeah.

00:22:13.040 An activist in the community as well, like a leading activist in the state of Texas.

00:22:18.440 So this is a man or this is a woman?

00:22:20.240 It's a woman that has a beard and has male pattern hair loss and is fat and, you know,

00:22:29.800 not very attractive.

00:22:31.300 And that's who he left to be with when he initially left.

00:22:36.580 That really did make me feel really bad about myself when that happened.

00:22:44.440 But this was a woman who had her breast amputated, and when she did, she walked around in front

00:22:51.040 of my kids with her shirt off, showing the scars, and she would give herself shots of testosterone

00:22:58.620 in front of the kids.

00:22:59.740 And she also asked the kids to help her with those shots, but they did not do that.

00:23:05.760 And so, you know, she also threatened to punish them, and they would get spankings if they

00:23:12.820 misgendered my ex-husband, their father.

00:23:18.120 They would be spanked by your ex-husband, I guess, with his whatever.

00:23:27.820 That was a threat.

00:23:28.680 And they would be threatened with spankings if they called their father him and her.

00:23:36.540 It is just so, so unjust.

00:23:43.040 It's just so unjust.

00:23:45.600 And you've got to just sit idly by and watch this happen, because the courts are telling

00:23:51.280 you to do it, and the counselor that you met with was encouraging all of this.

00:23:56.980 So I sort of cut you off.

00:23:58.060 You said this started four years into your marriage.

00:24:00.860 You're married for a total of 15 years, you said?

00:24:05.340 How does it, how do you get from four to 15?

00:24:09.420 There were instances of cross-dressing in there.

00:24:12.440 Then there were times that I thought nothing was happening, and I thought everything was

00:24:16.820 fine.

00:24:17.480 Of course, he was taking the hormones behind my back.

00:24:20.640 I did wonder, as a woman, why we lacked sexual intimacy in our marriage a lot of times.

00:24:30.040 And my answer to that eventually would come at the end of our marriage when I would find

00:24:34.240 out he was secretly on those hormones and that lowered his libido.

00:24:37.140 And so when he wanted to have another baby with me, then he would stop taking the hormones

00:24:43.840 long enough so that he could get me pregnant and so we could have sexual relations.

00:24:48.740 In fact, that's not just me guessing.

00:24:50.840 I read about that in numerous messages between him and another lover he had met online when

00:24:56.440 we were still married.

00:24:59.040 So someone before that one.

00:25:00.700 I assume the hormones don't just affect the sex drive.

00:25:04.300 I assume it affects, I assume it affects?

00:25:07.240 Sperm count.

00:25:08.020 Right?

00:25:08.380 Yes.

00:25:08.560 I don't know.

00:25:09.180 I guess I'm just guessing.

00:25:10.480 It's damaging to the sperm.

00:25:12.420 And so at one point, I did have a miscarriage with a pregnancy that the byproducts of pregnancy

00:25:21.040 grew into cancer.

00:25:23.140 And I always wondered if it was because the sperm was, there was something wrong with the

00:25:28.600 sperm.

00:25:29.540 And in fact, when that happened, he's like, he said, I feel like I gave you cancer.

00:25:34.780 And I thought that was a really weird thing to say.

00:25:36.980 So in retrospect, I'm thinking, is it possible?

00:25:40.960 I'm not a scientist.

00:25:41.980 I don't know.

00:25:42.520 I mean, I do know what a woman is, but.

00:25:44.620 But you're ahead of most scientists.

00:25:46.060 Yeah.

00:25:46.900 But I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not.

00:25:50.580 But he seemed to think it might.

00:25:52.080 He at least said this thing.

00:25:54.100 He said that thing out loud.

00:25:55.460 And so it always made me wonder.

00:25:56.960 And I do recall on our wedding day, I actually had asked him, just joking, hey, is there,

00:26:03.840 he had called me before my bridal brunch.

00:26:05.940 And I said, is there anything you need to tell me, last chance, before we, you know, take

00:26:12.360 our vows today?

00:26:13.200 And he was quiet.

00:26:15.860 And I thought, is there something?

00:26:20.140 I was just joking.

00:26:21.340 You know, it wasn't really, I was just kidding.

00:26:23.380 And then he said, oh, no, there's nothing.

00:26:24.960 And then years later, he told me that that day he was going to tell me that he had cross-dressed

00:26:30.500 in his past, but he was afraid I wouldn't marry him.

00:26:33.340 And so, so it was in his mind.

00:26:37.360 And he just deceived me and thought that I was one day going to accept all this.

00:26:42.160 But in those years, he would cross-dress occasionally.

00:26:46.680 I, not right openly out in front of me, like some of these men do, which is just awful the

00:26:52.460 level of abuse some of the trans widows take with their husbands doing this outlandish stuff

00:26:57.260 and, and telling the women they just have to deal with it.

00:27:00.380 But I would find out by finding some stashed clothes or a receipt for some clothes that he

00:27:05.580 dressed up in and threw away.

00:27:07.660 Usually I would smell the smell of acetone in the house or in the trash can.

00:27:12.800 And that meant he was playing in nails.

00:27:14.440 So one time when our middle son was still a baby and I was pregnant with my third child,

00:27:26.660 he fashioned himself a pregnancy belly.

00:27:31.280 You've seen like on Jerry Springer or Dr. Phil or something where the men are trying to

00:27:36.620 find out the experience of their wives when they're pregnant.

00:27:40.340 So he tried to pass it off as he's just trying to empathize with me.

00:27:43.780 Now, this is our third baby.

00:27:46.380 So if you're, the time to empathize with me for being pregnant, like past, like many years

00:27:51.120 ago, we've done this a few times, but I think he saw this as his last chance maybe to, to,

00:27:56.820 to do this.

00:27:57.760 In fact, this was my third pregnancy.

00:28:01.460 So no, fourth pregnancy, third baby.

00:28:03.400 And he added enormous breasts to this thing that he wore.

00:28:12.720 And they were made with water balloons.

00:28:16.020 It was really bothering my oldest son that he was walking around with this thing on and

00:28:21.640 with woman's clothes over top.

00:28:24.360 And he told me, this is how he would be like coercive.

00:28:30.100 He would say things like, I'm trying to help you.

00:28:33.340 I'm going to do all your chores for you.

00:28:35.820 Like I had these assigned chores and I'm going to do all the housekeeping.

00:28:41.320 You just rest.

00:28:42.960 And, and he was buzzing around very happy in that thing.

00:28:46.600 He, that he made.

00:28:48.720 And I finally just told him, I just feel like you're cross-dressing and it's making me really

00:28:53.260 uncomfortable.

00:28:53.860 So I wish you wouldn't do that anymore.

00:28:56.920 And he wasn't willing to give it up.

00:28:58.960 He still kept pushing me.

00:29:00.020 I need to do this so I can understand you.

00:29:01.840 Just relax.

00:29:02.580 I'm going to take all, take care of everything.

00:29:06.340 Take care of all your responsibilities around here.

00:29:08.360 You can just put your feet up.

00:29:10.420 So my son, who was very disturbed by this, actually went and destroyed that thing with

00:29:14.480 a pair of scissors.

00:29:15.420 Put on it.

00:29:15.760 Drug it out of the drawer and destroyed it because it bothered him seeing his dad like

00:29:20.540 that.

00:29:21.160 So you can only imagine how it felt when he was a six years older, his dad decides he's

00:29:27.800 going to become a woman and he goes and gets giant breast implants and a nose job and grows

00:29:34.580 his hair out long.

00:29:35.660 And he's hanging his bras all around his trashy apartment for my son to see.

00:29:42.100 And whenever he would hug my son, he'd rub his breast up against him.

00:29:46.840 People don't think about what this is like for the boys.

00:29:50.440 They don't think about what that's like at all.

00:29:53.180 I mean, dads have a certain feeling when you give them a hug.

00:29:57.420 And now their dad was soft and his enormous breasts would rub up against them.

00:30:03.100 And that made them really uncomfortable.

00:30:05.960 Yeah, there's a dream, a recurring dream that sometimes people have when a loved one dies.

00:30:12.260 And the dream is that the person is still there.

00:30:14.860 They just went away.

00:30:15.660 They went to a farm upstate.

00:30:17.520 I don't know.

00:30:18.200 And you see this person again.

00:30:20.200 And what makes the dream so agonizing is that you say, where were you?

00:30:23.840 Where'd you go?

00:30:24.780 Wait, what?

00:30:25.600 I've been, you're still here?

00:30:26.880 Oh my goodness, you know.

00:30:27.680 And it's a common thing.

00:30:30.640 But it's a dream.

00:30:31.980 And you wake up and you say, oh, okay, good.

00:30:34.640 But this is a reality that a kid would have to, more so even than a wife, I guess, though

00:30:43.580 a wife too, would have to deal with every day of just, oh man, I really just turned 13.

00:30:50.140 Just got on the baseball team.

00:30:51.660 Sure would like to have a catch with my dad.

00:30:53.000 Oh, I don't have a dad.

00:30:53.860 Well, I kind of do, but he won't be a dad.

00:30:58.500 And he insists that I not only tolerate that and move on with it and pretend it's not a,

00:31:05.080 but that I celebrate it too.

00:31:07.040 I just can't imagine.

00:31:09.340 Right.

00:31:09.700 When he was with the, his first lover, she would often try to encourage my son to wear

00:31:18.480 like pride bracelets to school and tell him that he needed to join the, it used to be

00:31:24.000 called the Gay Straight Alliance.

00:31:25.980 Yeah, we had one at my school.

00:31:27.160 It's now called the Gender Sexuality Alliance.

00:31:30.000 I think in part because they want to incorporate the gender thing.

00:31:34.040 And who cares about those straights anymore?

00:31:35.860 They serve their purpose.

00:31:37.100 Right.

00:31:37.480 Well, no straight kids are joining that.

00:31:39.180 You know, so they would make the announcements all the time at school.

00:31:42.080 And my son said, no straight kids are going to that.

00:31:45.460 And, but she tried to pressure him to go to that.

00:31:48.980 And my son didn't want to do that.

00:31:52.520 You know, he, he felt like this destroyed his family.

00:31:55.820 And you talk about having a game of pitch with your dad.

00:32:00.460 And that's the kind of thing that my son missed out on.

00:32:04.080 And he was interested in playing baseball.

00:32:06.840 He made the baseball team in high school and he was very proud of himself for that.

00:32:11.520 But when every other kid had a father to come pitch with them, he had nobody.

00:32:17.040 He was embarrassed for his dad to show up.

00:32:18.920 Yeah, of course.

00:32:19.380 And the last answer to that is that we should all start embracing this so that my kid doesn't have to be embarrassed.

00:32:26.860 I'll tell you, I can speak for my kids on this.

00:32:30.280 That's not what they want.

00:32:31.660 They do not want this indoctrination that's going on in the schools.

00:32:34.720 They used to put their heads down and cry when there was an event being planned at school for, you know, father and son or father and daughter.

00:32:44.680 Not because they're jealous about the other kids or they want their dad to be recognized.

00:32:51.300 They're sad because they feel like they don't have a father and they're embarrassed by the one that they had.

00:32:58.000 Rightly so, by the way.

00:33:00.260 You know, I'm all for honor your mother and father.

00:33:02.640 I think you actually always owe respect and even love to your parents, even if you've got bad parents.

00:33:09.980 It is right to be embarrassed by something that is embarrassing.

00:33:14.640 If your father engages in extremely shameful behavior and very selfish behavior and all the rest of it, it would be wrong not to feel some embarrassment.

00:33:27.120 You wouldn't, there'd be something off about you if you didn't feel.

00:33:29.860 Right.

00:33:30.320 And the kids were made fun of when the other kids would see their father.

00:33:34.320 Why is your dad wearing earrings?

00:33:36.020 Why is your dad trying to look like a girl?

00:33:38.580 And other parents would ask me, who is that strange woman that was at soccer practice?

00:33:45.120 And they didn't want to let their kids play with my kids after they knew the truth.

00:33:51.560 Because, and I don't blame them, you know, I don't blame them.

00:33:55.680 Because how can you even begin to understand something like that?

00:34:00.820 And knowing what I know, I know it's rooted in fetishism.

00:34:04.380 Yeah, of course.

00:34:05.480 I wouldn't want my kids around that either.

00:34:06.960 So I don't blame them.

00:34:08.800 But it was a sad reality we had to deal with that.

00:34:11.680 And I'm being called the bigot, you know, for not wanting to be on board with all this, for not supporting it.

00:34:19.800 I'm accused of being the one who caused this transition.

00:34:24.740 You know, even my ex accused me of causing this transition.

00:34:28.740 Your ex-husband, who you, he said that he had been doing this since he was a teenager, and he was sneaking around behind your back.

00:34:38.680 He says that you caused the behavior that predates you?

00:34:42.220 Right.

00:34:43.160 It's my fault he transitioned.

00:34:44.840 Because if I just would have given him another chance, he just, he wouldn't have done it.

00:34:49.700 But he was already doing it.

00:34:51.580 That's the reality.

00:34:52.520 But unfortunately, for a time, my kids believed that.

00:34:57.100 They believed it was my fault.

00:34:58.760 And just like I was supposed to believe while we were married, it was my fault that he cross-dressed.

00:35:02.820 Because I wasn't doing the right things.

00:35:06.120 You know, wasn't giving him the attention he wanted or doing the sexual things that he wanted.

00:35:12.100 And so, you know, what happened in those 14 years, I told you about the pregnancy belly.

00:35:19.600 There was a time in those, not 14, those 11 years that he, after the birth of our first daughter, she wouldn't take a bottle.

00:35:29.140 So I was very stressed out with like, I can't even leave the house for more than an hour and a half because she has to have, she has to be breastfed.

00:35:38.100 And so he offered to breastfeed her.

00:35:42.100 Yeah.

00:35:42.940 How do you plan on doing that?

00:35:44.680 That's what I wondered at the time.

00:35:46.480 I wondered, like, how could, of course, I was not on board with that.

00:35:51.380 That's absurd.

00:35:52.840 And he kept bringing it up, like pressuring me.

00:35:55.800 I said, no, he said, yeah, I can help you.

00:35:58.180 I said, oh, it was always, I'm helping you and I'm trying to understand you.

00:36:01.120 I'm trying to give you a break.

00:36:03.240 I said, no, don't ever bring it up again.

00:36:05.260 He had sent me articles on how men in third world countries were able to lactate.

00:36:10.460 And I'm like, we're not desperate.

00:36:12.580 You know, I'll just breastfeed until she's done breastfeeding.

00:36:16.680 It's a short phase of life.

00:36:18.960 Men can, especially if they're pumped with all these chemicals and poisons and things that the modern pro-trans movement pushes, they can produce something.

00:36:28.100 Men have mammary glands.

00:36:29.220 They can produce something.

00:36:29.740 This is in no way established as safe by the FDA or anything like that.

00:36:34.320 I mean, no one knows what this means for the babies.

00:36:39.280 But some men who have gone really far down this rabbit hole with enough shots in them will be able to produce something.

00:36:46.980 This is, I can't imagine, the best for the baby.

00:36:49.860 Certainly not the best for your marriage or for anyone's flourishing.

00:36:53.280 And so you look at them and you say, no, thanks.

00:36:55.260 I'm good.

00:36:55.680 We'll figure it out.

00:36:56.340 Don't bring it up again or I'm divorcing you.

00:36:58.380 That's what I told them.

00:36:59.180 I don't even know how I stayed after we even brought that up.

00:37:03.460 But people need to understand that trans widows, when we're in those relationships, we're dealing with narcissism.

00:37:10.240 We're very gaslighted.

00:37:12.240 Most of us have experienced different forms of abuse, whether it be physical, sexual, emotional, and financial.

00:37:18.000 Usually all four of those.

00:37:19.240 So that's why we stay through these absurdities and atrocities.

00:37:24.440 And because you're trying to make it work.

00:37:27.380 Definitely.

00:37:27.880 I mean, to me, divorce is hard enough on children.

00:37:32.560 It definitely has consequences that society doesn't want to talk about anymore since we've normalized the destruction of family.

00:37:39.080 But I also didn't want my kids to be alone with someone who's this unhinged.

00:37:44.660 So I thought I could maybe control this because he loved me and I loved him and we cared about these kids that we could somehow keep it in balance and keep things from derailing.

00:37:57.640 But I just didn't have that kind of control.

00:38:00.880 You know, there's the internet where he found all this stuff on.

00:38:03.340 I'm sure I didn't know anything about these types of fetishes, especially regarding men breastfeeding.

00:38:11.040 And that is a form of fetish.

00:38:12.420 And now I'm convinced for him it was too.

00:38:15.640 And he was trying to have that experience with our daughter.

00:38:19.240 And that should have been considered in the custody here.

00:38:22.260 I mean, we used to protect children.

00:38:24.860 We used to protect family and honor the truth.

00:38:28.200 And we had some type of way in society of just keeping social norms.

00:38:33.720 But by the time I had gone to court in 2010, that wasn't the case.

00:38:40.820 Before that, a man doing what he was doing, I was in a support group for women whose husbands cross-dressed.

00:38:46.900 It was for Christian women.

00:38:48.580 And only two of those women had their husbands transitioned.

00:38:53.180 And none of the women who were divorced in that support group, none of their women shared custody with their ex.

00:39:01.220 None.

00:39:01.560 This was a landmark case in Texas when he got shared custody of the kids.

00:39:06.760 And that's because things had evolved to such a point in our society that now, and this was a Republican judge too, by the way, now we're not protecting the kids.

00:39:17.220 We're being apathetic.

00:39:19.560 We're saying, like, pretending like it doesn't matter.

00:39:22.780 But at this point, in 2023, it's even worse.

00:39:27.080 Because if I don't validate that stuff, if I don't agree with it and teach it, I'm the one who's going to lose my kids.

00:39:33.000 Right.

00:39:33.280 But in fact, even in 2010, I was asked in court, how will you, as a Christian conservative woman, how are you going to co-parent with this lovely trans woman over here?

00:39:45.680 Not only is transgenderism accepted as true, an absurd ideology is now accepted as true, but transgender-identifying people are now a protected class.

00:39:57.340 So now they are the chief victims.

00:39:59.680 It's their well-being, supposed well-being, that the courts are primarily concerned with, even in Texas, even with a Republican judge, with Republicans like that who needs Democrats.

00:40:08.980 Right.

00:40:09.220 And I would remind people that in Texas, we have trifecta Republican leadership.

00:40:15.180 We have majority Republicans in both chambers, the House and the Senate, a Republican governor, Republican lieutenant governor, Republican attorney general.

00:40:26.740 And in Texas, you can, a man who is married, can go change his documents legally to reflect a lie that he is a woman.

00:40:38.860 And that is what my ex did before we went to court.

00:40:42.360 Before we went to court, his, he was legally a woman.

00:40:46.120 So I was now divorcing a woman on paper.

00:40:49.600 So you're a lesbian.

00:40:50.900 Right.

00:40:51.240 A paper lesbian.

00:40:52.240 A paper lesbian.

00:40:53.000 According to the courts, you're a lesbian.

00:40:54.580 Yeah.

00:40:54.760 So I guess the therapist is right after all.

00:40:58.860 She, she had a point.

00:41:00.740 When we all go through the looking glass, I guess she had a point.

00:41:03.480 So your, your husband, you find that he's getting into all this kind of weird porn stuff.

00:41:12.160 He is, as you, I mean, it's a hideous, it's like a horrifying way to put it, but he would have been using your daughter as an instrument for his sexual ratification.

00:41:24.040 Had you allowed this breastfeeding insanity to go on?

00:41:28.120 He was already wearing items of her, like some of her accessories, her like bows.

00:41:35.080 I mean, this was a big, this is a baby girl.

00:41:37.160 When we were divorced, she was five years old.

00:41:39.740 He was already wearing items of her clothing.

00:41:42.620 I couldn't stay and let him violate her the way that I had been violated.

00:41:48.860 Right.

00:41:49.140 You know, putting on clothes out of my closet and realizing they're stretched out.

00:41:53.540 Realizing my high heel boots are stretched out.

00:41:56.860 And my panties stretched out.

00:42:00.460 Because he had been in them.

00:42:02.220 I guess the disconnect, nothing surprises me anymore.

00:42:07.220 This still does a little bit.

00:42:08.840 Had you walked in on your husband with another woman, you would have every right to kick him to the curb, you know, scream at him, yell at him.

00:42:18.960 He's the bad guy.

00:42:19.560 You're the good guy.

00:42:20.680 Had you walked in on your husband looking at porn, which is increasingly, I think, becoming prominent in these cases of transition.

00:42:28.480 In fact, the guys behind the Matrix movies, the Wachowski brothers, who are now the Wachowski sisters, well, one of them admitted that it was pornography that made him start to transition.

00:42:40.160 That he got down this rabbit hole of porn and he started to fantasize about being a woman and now he's chopped himself up and looks like a woman.

00:42:47.420 So we know this happens.

00:42:48.480 If you walked in on your husband looking at porn, I think even today you would still be considered in the right to yell at him and say, you're the bad guy, I'm the good guy, get some help, quit doing this.

00:42:58.100 This is absolutely degenerate, you know, cut it out.

00:43:01.480 But for some reason, because the pornography and the obscenity and all the prurient stuff has to do with him pretending to be a woman, it's okay.

00:43:15.420 I guess so.

00:43:16.740 I mean, my ex actually had told me even fairly recently when I asked that he never watched porn while we were married.

00:43:23.680 And still does not to this day and has not ever.

00:43:27.160 That's his claim when I asked about it.

00:43:29.480 Because my daughter told me that he watched porn in front of her.

00:43:32.820 So I went back and asked again to my daughter.

00:43:35.780 My dad said this did not happen.

00:43:38.260 Did this happen?

00:43:39.260 She said, oh, yes, it did happen.

00:43:40.600 He watched porn.

00:43:41.840 She would sleep on the couch when she had visitation with him.

00:43:45.400 And he would be in there watching pornographic videos in front of her, courting to her.

00:43:52.120 So, yeah.

00:43:53.460 Who do you believe?

00:43:54.480 I think I have my answer.

00:43:55.720 I don't know.

00:43:56.080 I believe my daughter, of course.

00:43:57.800 Yeah.

00:43:58.620 Especially after years of being lied to.

00:44:00.400 And just knowing what I know now about the autogonophiles, which are men who are aroused by the idea of themselves being women, knowing a lot about that and seeing what I've seen online, which wasn't as prevalent back then as it is now.

00:44:17.740 I believe her.

00:44:19.520 I believe that he, once again, this is another lie.

00:44:21.760 But it's just insane that society is accepting all this, and they don't recognize the experiences of these children that they're going through.

00:44:31.880 My children were exposed to sex toys at their father's house that they just found lying about the house, like openly on the bed.

00:44:40.960 He had two of my children sleeping with him and his lover in their bed that they shared.

00:44:47.880 That is entirely inappropriate.

00:44:49.240 And in addition to that, this lover threatened to kill my kids, the female to male on testosterone, threatened to kill my kids, threatened to kill my ex-husband, and threatened to kill me.

00:45:03.980 And the kids were telling their therapist about, the court-ordered therapist, they told her about abuse and neglect at his house.

00:45:14.880 They weren't telling me all this all the time because they were protecting me.

00:45:19.240 Because I already was so devastated by everything that had happened.

00:45:23.220 But they told her, and she did nothing about it, until we went to court the second time when he decided to sue me for having the audacity to tell him,

00:45:31.160 you can't have your lover move in and sleep over with the kids.

00:45:36.520 Yeah, and sleep with them, by the way.

00:45:38.500 So for doing that, I was sued for full custody of the kids.

00:45:42.540 And when I fought back, I did win.

00:45:45.440 And I got that abusive person removed from their lives.

00:45:49.740 But at the same time, I had to depose this therapist to get it on their record about the abuse.

00:45:56.280 But I shouldn't have had to do that.

00:45:58.500 We should have had common sense to protect the children the first time in court.

00:46:02.900 I don't know much about therapists.

00:46:04.540 The little I know is that I thought they had an obligation to report if there were...

00:46:10.080 They do.

00:46:10.780 Everybody in Texas, by the way, is a mandated reporter.

00:46:13.640 Everybody.

00:46:14.440 So anybody that knows abuse has to report.

00:46:17.060 Not just a teacher, not just a therapist.

00:46:19.100 But she definitely had a duty to report.

00:46:21.020 So why didn't she do it?

00:46:22.520 When she was asked on the record why she didn't do it,

00:46:25.300 she didn't think that CPS would do anything in Harris County, where I live.

00:46:30.280 So what?

00:46:31.300 So what?

00:46:31.680 Oh, so you don't want to spend the five minutes of your day?

00:46:36.500 So the kids had no one to fight for them.

00:46:38.960 I feel really bad that I didn't or felt that I couldn't do more for them

00:46:44.620 because I didn't know about it.

00:46:46.420 I didn't have money to go to court every time something went wrong.

00:46:50.160 But when I finally did do something, what I feared would happen would happen.

00:46:54.780 He came with well-funded lawyers who he didn't have to pay.

00:46:58.580 These are activist lawyers with a transgender activist law firm that took up his cause

00:47:05.240 because they wanted to defend parental rights of a transgender father.

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00:48:35.700 Let's get back to the table.

00:48:37.600 We were at, I was at a meeting with the court ad litem for the kids,

00:48:43.820 and a courier came in with a check from a donor to give her from one of these activist organizations.

00:48:52.100 She got paid by them.

00:48:53.460 So they asked me, are you okay with this?

00:48:56.900 I'm like, well, I mean, what am I going to do that, you know, you're getting paid by his half.

00:49:04.420 I had to pay my half out of my pocket.

00:49:06.740 His half was being paid by an activist.

00:49:09.440 So it was just all very lopsided.

00:49:14.400 Fortunately, the ad litem was very freaked out by everything that was going on.

00:49:19.160 She, despite being liberal herself, was actually freaked out and was on the side of the children.

00:49:26.920 She actually did have a heart for children.

00:49:28.440 In an earlier age, not that long ago, decades ago, people who would engage in this kind of behavior would be locked up in padded cells and told the truth

00:49:41.500 and put into counseling to reconcile their fantasies with reality.

00:49:46.560 And today, we're not quite at the point where you're being put in a padded cell,

00:49:50.880 but the legal system is pretty tilted against you and against your children and against any person who would speak the truth.

00:49:59.240 I mean, my relationship to this issue is not even in the same stratosphere of what you're talking about.

00:50:07.600 I just say things on camera.

00:50:10.160 And I found out just a couple of days ago that I will be permanently removed from YouTube,

00:50:18.140 which is obviously the largest video sharing platform in the world, owned by Google,

00:50:22.400 which controls the flow of information around the entire internet and the public square.

00:50:26.160 I will be nuked.

00:50:27.360 I will be personally banned forever if I persist in saying that these men are men and refer to them as he and him.

00:50:39.220 I'm not the only one, obviously.

00:50:41.560 They're going after anyone with a sizable platform who says this.

00:50:47.080 Which means that, for all intents and purposes,

00:50:50.480 if the people who control public discourse in a republic where you govern yourself by speaking to one another,

00:50:58.660 if they are saying you have to believe in transgenderism or you cannot speak about the issue,

00:51:05.080 then that's it.

00:51:06.920 That means transgenderism is established in law and you're just out of luck.

00:51:10.760 And the actual victims of this, because I'm the guy who speaks on camera,

00:51:14.120 the people who actually have to deal with the day-to-day of what this means for your family,

00:51:16.940 for your children, for everything, yeah, you're out, sorry.

00:51:21.220 I mean, it didn't even have to be codified into law to be enforced by the courts,

00:51:26.880 because it already is.

00:51:27.800 Like in my case, when I went to court, every day was a battle over pronoun usage,

00:51:33.260 trying to get me to use the preferred pronouns of my ex-husband.

00:51:37.880 And with the threat that I could be held in contempt.

00:51:41.960 Luckily, the judge didn't want to go along with those requests.

00:51:45.260 Instead, she asked me on the final day, how do you feel about that?

00:51:49.780 How do you feel about using those pronouns?

00:51:54.140 And I said, well, I think that's very intolerant of them,

00:51:58.820 the people who say that they want tolerance.

00:52:01.360 That's not what they want.

00:52:02.560 They don't want tolerance.

00:52:03.960 They want complete submission to their new state religion.

00:52:07.820 And even without codifying it into law, you see where we're at,

00:52:11.580 because we don't have a common morality anymore in our country.

00:52:15.840 So this has swooped in in its place,

00:52:18.240 and it's being enforced by corporations and a lot of big money.

00:52:23.620 All the big corporations.

00:52:24.620 Yeah.

00:52:24.920 I mean, in Texas, a father lost custody of his son over this.

00:52:29.080 And he's not the only one.

00:52:30.220 People think it's a one-off, but it's not.

00:52:32.180 The year before, in 2021, on the Senate floor, a mother testified.

00:52:38.140 She was testifying against the bill to stop the transition of minors.

00:52:42.660 She testified that her ex-husband was cut out of her kid's life

00:52:47.760 because he didn't affirm the transition.

00:52:50.500 He didn't affirm it.

00:52:51.400 So he was cut out, just like Jeff Younger.

00:52:53.380 It's right there.

00:52:54.160 It's on video.

00:52:55.020 The transition of the kid, you mean.

00:52:56.800 Right.

00:52:57.100 The minor.

00:52:57.860 Yeah.

00:52:58.320 With surgeries.

00:52:59.220 Her daughter had surgeries.

00:53:00.700 And it's admitted right on tape.

00:53:04.380 I have it on my Rumble because YouTube won't allow it.

00:53:08.460 But the mother's admitting that she had the father completely cut out of her kid's life

00:53:14.160 over not affirming the transition.

00:53:17.300 This was probably a loving father.

00:53:19.800 And those aren't the only cases.

00:53:22.020 People just can't speak out.

00:53:23.200 Just like for years, you weren't hearing from me or women like me.

00:53:28.180 Because when you're married to these or married to them, what can you do?

00:53:31.580 But when you divorce them, then you're under the courts.

00:53:37.980 So you might get drugged back in the court.

00:53:39.880 And they'll bring up a video like us talking right now.

00:53:42.800 It's like, how can she be expected to co-parent?

00:53:45.560 So I couldn't really speak as openly about this until the kids were older.

00:53:50.680 I did before we were out from under our court decree, our divorce decree, because they were

00:53:57.540 old enough.

00:53:59.180 And I actually know that his current spouse would not want our kids.

00:54:04.820 She didn't want any kids.

00:54:05.800 So I felt pretty sure he wasn't going to try to get custody away anymore.

00:54:10.740 But also because I had the assurance that I would beat him in court, because we have enough.

00:54:17.160 And some of the things I shared.

00:54:18.600 Is the current spouse that person who was threatening and sleeping in the bed with your children?

00:54:23.420 No, there was a court injunction to, I got a court order that she couldn't be around the kids anymore.

00:54:29.580 And so he had to follow that.

00:54:31.360 And that relationship ended around the same time that he also got a job in another state

00:54:36.700 outside of Texas, and he moved.

00:54:38.400 So this was good for us, because we had less interaction, less corrupting the kids for a while.

00:54:45.480 And he met someone else.

00:54:47.680 He actually married a woman.

00:54:49.880 A regular woman?

00:54:51.700 Well, she identifies as a lesbian.

00:54:54.320 And they win all these female golf championships together.

00:54:59.820 I'm sure he does.

00:55:01.400 Yeah, I mean, he's hitting from the female tees now.

00:55:04.720 And he grew up on a golf course.

00:55:06.700 Wow.

00:55:07.060 That's my only chance I ever have at winning any golf tournaments.

00:55:10.680 I mean, I know.

00:55:13.060 So, but, you know, so he's cheating.

00:55:15.560 And, you know, he had his kids help him cheat on the golf course.

00:55:21.760 I think it was a horrible lesson having them be caddies.

00:55:25.800 You know, my younger children, when they were visiting him in the summers on their summer breaks,

00:55:30.420 on their mandated visits, caddy for him, while he's cheating, essentially cheating, because it's allowed.

00:55:37.540 Yeah.

00:55:37.720 You mentioned that your son is a traditional Catholic.

00:55:41.480 I am also a mackerel-snapping, you know, traditional papist.

00:55:46.080 And so the Catholics famously say, no divorce.

00:55:49.620 And this has been teaching of the church for 2,000 years.

00:55:51.480 And there is such a thing, however, as annulment.

00:55:56.040 And I think in the popular culture, sometimes people don't really get it.

00:55:58.680 They think it's just Catholic divorce, you know.

00:56:00.320 But it's not, because the difference is annulment asks, was this marriage valid in the first place?

00:56:07.780 And so there are annulment investigations.

00:56:10.040 And one of the things that one looks for in an annulment investigation is, was something concealed?

00:56:16.120 Did the parties enter into this marriage knowing what they were getting into,

00:56:20.240 or was some really important fact concealed?

00:56:22.920 One such example perhaps might be what your husband concealed from you, that, you know, he was cross-dressing.

00:56:28.840 So that would seem to be an exemplary, you know, example of that.

00:56:35.840 Well, that in the Catholic teachings, taking of the hormones, which made him sterile.

00:56:41.460 Yeah, yeah.

00:56:42.200 And trying to prevent a baby would be also another.

00:56:46.840 Right.

00:56:47.160 No, I mean, you could go through a litany of the things that obviously went wrong here.

00:56:51.580 But I guess then it has me wondering, when you got married, you're Christian.

00:56:56.800 You're getting married in, you know, a Christian ceremony, whether it's a nuptial mass or something like that.

00:57:03.220 Is your husband Christian?

00:57:04.500 Do you guys agree on what marriage is, or are you coming from totally different backgrounds?

00:57:08.780 No, we totally agreed.

00:57:09.680 We actually met in youth group while we were in college.

00:57:13.700 And we actually got married at the church that we met at, and our children were in pageants.

00:57:22.280 We actually, we were Methodists, and our kids were in this particular church.

00:57:28.360 The one that we got married at is still a conservative Methodist church.

00:57:31.980 It hasn't adopted the gay marriage mindset.

00:57:35.880 It's like the last conservative Methodist church.

00:57:37.680 It might be one of the last ones in Texas.

00:57:39.500 And we were members of another smaller Methodist church, which was also conservative back then.

00:57:46.760 It isn't so much now.

00:57:48.460 But we were active in our church.

00:57:52.000 I was involved with the homeless ministry, the women's club, and he was in the choir in the men's club.

00:57:58.960 And you never would have thought this would be our family, that we were going to experience all of this.

00:58:05.100 We actually lived in this Cape Cod-style home with a white picket fence, and our three kids and everything looked really perfect.

00:58:14.780 We really, really had a white picket fence.

00:58:17.300 I mean, and beautiful children.

00:58:20.680 And when he did all this, I just couldn't believe he would do that to our kids.

00:58:28.640 I would just be thinking on my way to work or to drop them off at school or my way from dropping them off at school, how could he do this?

00:58:38.180 How could he just...

00:58:39.820 Throw it all away.

00:58:41.280 Yeah, treat us like trash, basically.

00:58:43.660 Throw it away is the right way to phrase it.

00:58:47.180 I just would picture him setting out trash bags, and those symbolized us.

00:58:52.300 He was just putting us like trash on the curb, leaving us broke and homeless.

00:58:58.120 And I had a beat-up van.

00:58:59.980 That's all I had, and I could barely keep it running.

00:59:03.540 And that's just not taking care of your family.

00:59:07.300 And it's very cowardly and selfish to do just because you want to do something that supposedly will make you happy.

00:59:14.760 You see it so much more clearly with drug addicts.

00:59:18.740 I think of Hunter Biden, who, good enough looking guy, was in the military, didn't work out that well for him.

00:59:28.720 You know, comes from a politically very important family, graduate of Yale Law School.

00:59:33.780 This guy could have anything he wants in the world.

00:59:36.080 And what does he want most?

00:59:38.440 What is he willing to give up his whole life for just to pursue?

00:59:42.060 Crack and hookers.

00:59:43.580 And filming himself doing it.

00:59:45.060 And you look at it, and you think, man, if people weren't getting hurt in all of this, it would be really funny.

00:59:51.040 It's a funny thing to think that somebody could have everything and a good life, and then give it all up for crack and hookers.

01:00:00.560 It's so dark.

01:00:02.280 You would either laugh or cry.

01:00:04.620 And you would apply it to your situation.

01:00:08.400 You've got the white picket fence.

01:00:09.740 You've got the whole family.

01:00:11.100 And you say, okay, you can have all of that or fishnets.

01:00:14.720 You say, oh, fishnets every time.

01:00:16.180 Yeah, it's absurd, and it's an atrocity for the family, our family, and other families like ours,

01:00:25.320 that this is being prioritized over the well-being of children, over the commitment of marriage.

01:00:32.140 And churches are okay with it, and corporations are celebrating.

01:00:37.840 I mean, Cracker Barrel this week with their pride statement.

01:00:41.620 I can no longer eat there.

01:00:43.500 Cracker Barrel.

01:00:44.600 It's Cracker Barrel.

01:00:45.680 I mean, I don't want to go to any business and spend my money someplace where they're celebrating the destruction of my family.

01:00:52.840 Yeah.

01:00:53.120 But they're celebrating what actually hurt my kids.

01:00:55.700 And probably it was one of the most painful experiences of my adult life, and probably may remain that way for the rest of my life.

01:01:03.900 Almost certainly it will.

01:01:05.740 The queen of all vice, not even just the weird sex stuff, but just pride.

01:01:09.260 I mean, pride is the deadliest of the seven deadly sins, goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

01:01:14.540 The fact that this has been embraced is scandalous.

01:01:17.420 And so, yeah, of course, I can't drink the Bud Light.

01:01:20.060 I can't go to Target.

01:01:20.840 I guess now I can't go to Cracker Barrel either.

01:01:23.180 Isn't that ridiculous?

01:01:24.480 But on this point of religion, and you guys meet in church, and you're quite religious, I guess that's the part that's so hard to understand.

01:01:37.120 And the Christian view of this is certain things are true, and certain things are false.

01:01:44.080 And man has a nature, and we could go on for hours about body and soul interact with one another, and man is a composite being, and there's many millennia of philosophy on this, and theology.

01:01:55.460 And so we say, okay, I can say with reasonable certainty, you, Tracy, are a woman.

01:02:00.700 We can know that, and that means that you have certain rights, and it means you have certain obligations.

01:02:03.880 And when you're a mother, you have obligations to your children.

01:02:05.800 When you're a wife, you have obligations to your husband, and vice versa.

01:02:09.060 Maybe you don't like that, maybe you don't like Christianity, or you don't believe it, but okay, but at least that's a vision, okay?

01:02:16.820 And it's a vision grounded in truth and reality.

01:02:19.680 And some things are true, and some things are false.

01:02:21.400 And if you think some things that are not true, we're going to try to correct your misperception.

01:02:26.760 Right.

01:02:29.040 What is the alternative pride vision of all of that, beyond do whatever the hell you want, no matter who it hurts?

01:02:36.940 I mean, the whole thing boils down to, do as thou wilt, right?

01:02:47.000 And that's really not a good motto for living our lives.

01:02:53.700 The first and only commandment of the church of Satan, I believe.

01:02:57.600 Yeah, that's right.

01:02:58.660 Yeah.

01:02:58.980 So, unfortunately, things have shifted so much in our society.

01:03:04.120 We don't protect what was good, and we don't have a shared morality anymore.

01:03:09.420 So, people will look at you and me and say, well, you just want to have a theocracy.

01:03:14.420 We never...

01:03:15.080 Who doesn't?

01:03:15.920 I mean, at this point, at this point, wouldn't that be better?

01:03:18.800 But they do, too.

01:03:19.540 They just want it without the real Theo.

01:03:23.620 Well, we didn't start with a theocracy, and now maybe we're seeing the problem with that rebellion against the original church.

01:03:32.420 Right.

01:03:32.860 Maybe we're now seeing the problem with that.

01:03:34.580 But we're definitely seeing that when we had a shared morality, even without having theocracy in the United States, it was a good experiment because we had a shared morality.

01:03:44.140 Now that we don't, it's all coming apart.

01:03:46.140 And I think that's why there's this feverish adaptation, you know, this feverish adoption of this transgender movement.

01:03:54.860 Yeah.

01:03:55.040 Because it has the ability to destroy everything.

01:03:57.500 If you can't have truth in court, if you can't have truth in law, then you can't have justice.

01:04:04.160 I mean, I think of the example of this girl in Louisiana.

01:04:09.760 I can't think of her name.

01:04:11.300 Something Grace.

01:04:12.320 But it was a famous case.

01:04:13.620 I think there's a documentary out about her now.

01:04:15.460 And she was adopted from the Ukraine, and she ends up, she has dwarfism.

01:04:24.200 They take her home, give her her first bath, and the parents discover that she has, like, signs of puberty, such as developing pubic hair.

01:04:33.780 So they think that she must be older.

01:04:35.820 They then abuse her to try to get it out of her that she is 22 years old.

01:04:40.000 They end up abandoning her in an apartment.

01:04:43.140 And so when it comes time to charge these parents, they had a doctor tell them that she was a child based on bone scans.

01:04:54.160 So there was science proving the age.

01:04:57.500 But when it came time to charge, she was, the girl was not allowed in court to say that she, her true age, she couldn't refer to herself as being a minor at that time.

01:05:08.940 And she even had a lie about what her birthday was.

01:05:10.780 Her birthday, the court made her say, it is what was on the change, the re-age birth certificate.

01:05:18.320 So right now, in every state in the United States, including Texas, you can get your identification, your vital records, everything changed to the gender identity that you're taking on.

01:05:33.380 So the sex marker gets changed.

01:05:35.460 So my ex changed his.

01:05:38.000 And anybody, people are changing their kids' markers.

01:05:40.740 We don't have a law stopping that.

01:05:43.940 We didn't actually have a law allowing it.

01:05:45.720 It's being done through the courts.

01:05:47.200 We should be codifying into law what is a man, what is a woman, and sex.

01:05:53.900 And sex does not mean gender identity.

01:05:56.080 That's the only way to, you know, to live, coexist with this, and maintain your rights.

01:06:05.440 Because it's our rights against their rights.

01:06:07.820 And only the powerful win.

01:06:09.560 And when you're in court and they change the birth certificate, you then have to use the fake pronouns.

01:06:17.500 You're legally obliged, you know, obligated.

01:06:20.460 You could be held in contempt of court for not using the right.

01:06:24.320 That's what they tried to do to me.

01:06:26.480 There will be judges that go along with that now.

01:06:28.860 Well, don't they have to?

01:06:31.520 There's a story my priest used to tell.

01:06:34.020 I don't think it's apocryphal.

01:06:35.220 I think it was a real story.

01:06:36.760 Second World War, Nazi Germany.

01:06:38.680 There's an opera singer who's doing a show.

01:06:40.740 And she finds out there's some muckety-mucks from the party in the audience.

01:06:44.560 And she doesn't like them very much.

01:06:45.580 And she says, I'm not going to perform.

01:06:47.260 And one of their representatives goes back and says, you'll perform.

01:06:49.880 She says, I'm not going to do that.

01:06:51.700 And they say, do you know that we can make you sing?

01:06:56.900 And her response is, you can make me scream, but you can't make me sing.

01:07:03.840 You're sitting in court.

01:07:05.400 I guess they can make you scream.

01:07:06.580 I guess they can't make you violate your reason.

01:07:16.660 They can create a lot of temptations to do it.

01:07:19.900 Right.

01:07:20.720 And they can make it really, really hard for you.

01:07:22.260 And they can punish you.

01:07:23.940 But what they want to do is they want to be able to make you sing.

01:07:27.800 Two plus two does equal five.

01:07:29.500 And not only will you say it, you'll damn well believe it.

01:07:31.600 And if you don't, you're a bigot, and you shouldn't be allowed to engage in society anymore.

01:07:40.600 You shouldn't be able to have your YouTube channel.

01:07:42.340 You shouldn't be able to just be part of polite society because you misgendered.

01:07:47.240 I get this all the time.

01:07:47.880 You misgendered your ex-husband.

01:07:51.140 It's like the father of my kids.

01:07:53.720 And they're accused of misgendering.

01:07:55.440 It's like my experience is valid.

01:07:58.600 And that's what I tell the liberals.

01:08:00.080 Is my experience not valid?

01:08:02.180 Because that's what we hear about them.

01:08:03.820 Their experience is valid.

01:08:04.700 We need to hear them.

01:08:05.800 But what about the trans widows?

01:08:07.400 What about their children?

01:08:08.420 Is our experiences not valid?

01:08:10.960 They are.

01:08:12.020 If we have to hear everyone's story, American Library Association, the infamous groomers of the United States,

01:08:19.420 everybody's story matters.

01:08:20.880 And everybody's story wants to be told.

01:08:22.740 When I write my book, will it be shelved in the American libraries?

01:08:28.380 Will the American Library Association advocate as hard for my story as it does all these transgender stories?

01:08:37.200 Your book certainly will be banned from schools.

01:08:40.200 There's no question about it.

01:08:41.180 No doubt about it.

01:08:41.900 Because we were joking earlier about theocracy just now.

01:08:46.240 But I kind of mean it.

01:08:48.840 Everybody's got a theocracy.

01:08:50.120 I guess technically, theocracy is government ordered toward God, government by God.

01:08:55.520 So the libs obviously don't want that.

01:08:59.440 But they just want the opposite of religion and theocracy.

01:09:04.460 They want it ordered toward their false god.

01:09:06.280 I mean, they don't want a god-ordered society.

01:09:09.220 They want a devil-ordered society or something like that.

01:09:11.260 And so they'll enforce that with the same degree of coercion.

01:09:15.760 In fact, they'll enforce that with far greater coercion than any theocracy in history.

01:09:21.080 Because theocracies are restrained by morality, including the rulers.

01:09:26.700 Godless societies, the worst tyrannies in history, they haven't been theocracies.

01:09:31.400 They've been dictatorships, communist dictatorships, where people answer to no one but themselves.

01:09:38.000 And they're doing it now.

01:09:39.720 And you're seeing it even from our nominally Catholic president.

01:09:43.160 You know, they told me if we elected a Catholic president, we'd replace the American flag with the flag of a religion.

01:09:50.840 And guess what?

01:09:51.580 That's exactly what we did.

01:09:52.680 The White House not only flies the pride flag.

01:09:56.100 And not just the pride flag, the kind of militant terrorist pride flag with the BLM and the whatever.

01:10:01.020 But the president violates flag code to put the pride progress flag center, flanked by the star-spangled banners.

01:10:13.780 And he says, tweets out the picture, and he says, let everyone hear this.

01:10:19.340 America is a nation of pride.

01:10:23.120 Yeah.

01:10:23.580 Might be the first true thing Joe Biden's ever said.

01:10:25.640 Yeah, it probably is the first true thing he's said in a long time.

01:10:30.740 And it's not lost on me that that flag is a flag of the New World Order.

01:10:38.120 You could see at Rockefeller Plaza, is the sea of these flags.

01:10:42.360 And I thought, you know, what the liberals, really more the squishes, the kind of don't ever use the government,

01:10:49.380 just leave everyone alone, hands off kind of people.

01:10:51.620 What they'll say is, well, look, conservatives, if you insist upon your vision of the good in society,

01:10:58.640 why the liberals might do the same to us with their vision.

01:11:02.620 They think, oh, gosh, can you imagine?

01:11:05.060 Wow, what would that look like?

01:11:07.340 I have to worry about a hypothetical future when I'm dealing with the reality practically right now.

01:11:12.740 So given how public all of this is now, have you received threats?

01:11:17.260 You've obviously received some praise, at least from me and, you know, like-minded people.

01:11:23.200 But you're a public figure now.

01:11:26.100 Sometimes, not too much.

01:11:28.700 I'm a person of faith, and I really believe that God has provided his protection over me and my family

01:11:36.080 during all of this, sharing this story as much as I have.

01:11:39.760 And while sometimes I do get some hateful messages, usually the haters, they like to send me very offensive things,

01:11:47.600 you know, like pornographic images, things like that.

01:11:51.360 Yeah, I've seen that pop up, even just on social media.

01:11:55.240 You know, people, it's just weird how all of these things overlap.

01:11:59.780 It's the people who are pushing these radical leftist views, they're always posting pornographic content.

01:12:08.320 They often post devil imagery.

01:12:12.340 They often, I mean, overt, satanic, demonic kind of images.

01:12:17.500 You mentioned you're a person of faith.

01:12:20.540 I assume you've seen that?

01:12:22.160 Oh, yes.

01:12:22.700 I've saw that a lot.

01:12:23.700 I don't know if you know this, but back in 2019, I exposed the Sex Offenders and the Drag Queen Story Hour program in Houston, Texas.

01:12:33.880 That was you?

01:12:34.700 Yes.

01:12:35.040 I remember the story.

01:12:36.060 That made international news.

01:12:38.180 It made my show.

01:12:39.240 It did?

01:12:39.740 It did, yeah.

01:12:40.860 Great.

01:12:41.440 Thanks for covering that.

01:12:42.440 And one of the things that I saw in a lot of their social media was witchcraft and devil worship.

01:12:49.160 And I saw that as well in looking into the BLM movement and the Antifa as well.

01:12:57.420 And there's a lot of overlapping.

01:12:59.280 God forbid you post anything on social media against furries, you will get sent a whole lot of porn.

01:13:05.480 Really?

01:13:06.100 Yes.

01:13:06.460 I haven't delved too far into the whole furry.

01:13:09.840 Maybe we'll do a long sit down with a furry or something at some point.

01:13:12.560 Oh, my gosh.

01:13:13.020 I, yeah, I don't even, that's one, putting on fishnets is not my thing.

01:13:20.060 But I guess I could intellectually see how someone could make that a sexual thing.

01:13:28.620 The furry stuff, that I can't really get.

01:13:31.860 And what is odd is that you have these common threads of, well, it's always very pornographic.

01:13:38.300 And it's very corrosive and destructive to real social relationships and to family.

01:13:44.420 And it's just demonic, I think, right?

01:13:49.160 Or at least the symbolism is always demonic.

01:13:51.320 And that's why a lot of these guys, I think, will say, oh, I don't really believe in the devil.

01:13:55.720 Or I don't believe in God.

01:13:57.540 Or I don't believe in religion.

01:13:58.760 Or I don't believe in any of that.

01:13:59.720 I just use all of these really specific symbols ironically or something.

01:14:05.220 I don't, it seems coincidental.

01:14:06.320 Does the devil care if you believe in him?

01:14:09.560 I don't think so.

01:14:11.440 So as a person of faith, I do believe that there's a demonic influence.

01:14:17.280 I mean, I guess some people think that's crazy.

01:14:20.660 They can think that.

01:14:21.980 But I think it's real that there is a demonic influence over all of this.

01:14:27.920 And you don't know why someone would dress as a furry.

01:14:30.860 But from what I've seen, I think it's the perfect opportunity, just like being in drag, the drag queens.

01:14:39.020 It's the perfect opportunity for them to hide their real identity from the children they're encountering.

01:14:45.760 When you uncovered that story, when I see these stories, I'm not surprised.

01:14:54.040 Some people are surprised.

01:14:55.940 But I always think, you know, it's always the ones you most expect.

01:14:59.760 At least most of the time.

01:15:01.280 Not all the time.

01:15:01.960 But a lot of the time, it's the ones you most expect.

01:15:05.540 And yet, even after that exposure of convicted child molesters being part of the Drag Queen Story Hour, those programs still exist all over the country.

01:15:16.960 Right.

01:15:17.720 Because it's being pushed out there under the guise of diversity and inclusion.

01:15:24.940 When we all know that what they really want is the opposite of that.

01:15:29.500 They want to exclude people of faith.

01:15:31.480 And they don't want...

01:15:32.480 Exclude the truth.

01:15:33.180 Yeah, they don't want diversity.

01:15:34.800 Do they want our point of view in a story time?

01:15:39.080 I mean, I thought about having a story time with the Walrus book.

01:15:45.560 That's Johnny the Walrus.

01:15:47.640 Yeah, I thought that would be a good story time.

01:15:49.720 I think I'll give it a go there in Houston, Texas and see how the librarians, you know, if we put it up on the flagpole, if they're going to salute it.

01:15:59.440 Yeah, yeah.

01:16:00.240 It's a pride month.

01:16:01.280 I think they'll fight as hard for the Walrus story as they do Julian is a Mermaid.

01:16:08.040 Yeah, Maya Kobabi, Gender Queer, any of those sorts of books.

01:16:11.080 Right.

01:16:12.040 So speaking of exclusion and limits and all of this, there's just one thread I want to close up here.

01:16:18.500 And despite your husband's degenerate behavior, you fight for the marriage for 11 years after this all comes out.

01:16:31.260 What happens where you finally say, okay, it's over?

01:16:35.440 I mean, basically, it was him.

01:16:43.300 I kept giving him more opportunities to do the right thing.

01:16:49.800 And I always would go to him for the answers.

01:16:54.000 In fact, I did go to a Christian therapist that told me I had to stop doing that.

01:16:59.180 I had to start believing my eyes, you know, what I saw.

01:17:03.160 And quit asking him to give me an explanation or to lie to me about it.

01:17:07.700 And I had told him if he continued this, we would get a divorce.

01:17:12.620 And when I found out that it was as bad as it really was and that, you know, he had this person he was talking to online,

01:17:20.240 that their messages together were really disgusting.

01:17:24.640 You know, I want to do this to you like a girl.

01:17:27.360 I want you to do this to me like a girl.

01:17:30.180 Notice they didn't say woman.

01:17:31.860 And just the things they were talking about, even talking about having me killed.

01:17:39.600 And my ex's response to this person, a stranger to me, talking about knocking me off to get me out of the way,

01:17:46.440 the mother of his children, his response was laughing.

01:17:49.280 So how did I end up leaving?

01:17:51.460 It was learning about all that, learning about this other person that he had found to validate what he was doing,

01:17:58.680 who enjoyed that, who wanted to help him transition.

01:18:01.860 And finding hormones hidden in my house, even after he said he had stopped.

01:18:07.800 And we were going again to another counselor, this time a Christian counselor.

01:18:12.320 And he sat there and said in front of the counselor that this is who I am.

01:18:19.800 So at that point, I just, there was nothing to fight for.

01:18:22.740 Yet, as I told you earlier, he would tell the children that it was my fault he transitioned because I didn't give him enough chances.

01:18:32.680 That's just not true.

01:18:33.640 Just one more.

01:18:34.320 Just one more.

01:18:35.100 I'm sure that would have done it.

01:18:36.100 Right.

01:18:36.360 After finding the hormones, finding about the other woman who was on board with all the fetishy stuff.

01:18:42.400 And murdering you.

01:18:43.160 And murdering me.

01:18:44.540 Yeah.

01:18:45.280 And finding about, you know, years of lies.

01:18:50.800 At the end of our marriage, he told me that some images I found on our computer when we were early in our marriage,

01:18:57.940 before we even had children, I thought those were just ugly women in tacky lingerie that I found backed up in our, like, on our computer.

01:19:07.420 And it turns out those were men.

01:19:10.440 No wonder they were ugly and had tacky lingerie.

01:19:12.960 At the time, I thought, why are you looking at these women when, you know, I'm young and attractive and I had better taste in lingerie.

01:19:21.020 And it turns out those were men.

01:19:23.560 So just finding about all the deception, I believed him one more time.

01:19:28.800 He got me to move from Ohio to Houston because in Ohio they have spousal support for life until you remarry.

01:19:36.620 And he wanted to divorce me in Texas so that he wouldn't have to pay spousal support.

01:19:43.140 So he told me he was going to be the man that God ordained him to be.

01:19:47.500 And once again, even despite the therapist telling me I should not believe him anymore, that therapist even saw him.

01:19:55.340 And that therapist was experienced with dealing with abusive men and knew, you know, recognized what was happening.

01:20:03.040 I was being gaslighted.

01:20:04.660 And I believed him.

01:20:06.620 So we got divorced in Texas.

01:20:08.120 It was financially worse for me.

01:20:09.920 But I was at least close to my family who could help and support me.

01:20:14.560 And it opened my eyes a lot.

01:20:16.480 And I think the story happening in Texas is a, you know, should serve as a warning.

01:20:23.200 A lot of people think this is a very conservative state.

01:20:26.220 And that these things just don't happen there and can't happen.

01:20:29.980 And if you do, the state will have your back.

01:20:32.600 But this was in 19, you know, the beginning, you know, this goes far back before Bruce became Caitlin.

01:20:39.840 And the state didn't have my back.

01:20:43.380 The state absolutely was involved in the destruction of my family.

01:20:46.480 And they still are involved in this destruction of families and harm to children.

01:20:50.940 Because that's what this ultimately does.

01:20:53.160 When you destroy the family, which is a safe place.

01:20:56.880 So we talk about safe places.

01:20:58.840 The safe place for children is in the natural family.

01:21:02.440 And that's the child's right.

01:21:04.420 And so to have their mother and father that love them and to care for them.

01:21:12.160 And Texas does not have your back.

01:21:15.700 So people need it.

01:21:16.740 I remember I thought, oh, this organization that I work with as an activist, Mass Resistance.

01:21:24.460 I thought years ago, oh, I'm so glad we're never going to need that here in Texas.

01:21:31.120 Little did I know.

01:21:32.860 Little did I know.

01:21:33.640 So let it serve as a warning.

01:21:35.780 But ultimately, it came down to him.

01:21:38.200 That's how it came to an end.

01:21:39.900 I saw how bad it really was.

01:21:42.040 And it was so bad that, you know, I mentioned that a lot of the women go through being abused in different ways.

01:21:50.780 Financially, sexually, physically.

01:21:55.360 My children were seeing me be beat up by my husband.

01:21:59.020 Because he was defending this, you know, himself and all of this.

01:22:04.500 I was in the way.

01:22:06.820 And if I wanted to...

01:22:07.060 So you're saying they figuratively saw you beaten up?

01:22:10.100 Oh, no, they saw me physically do that.

01:22:12.080 So because I wanted to see his phone.

01:22:14.800 You know, I wanted to see if he was lying to me.

01:22:18.360 And one time, I wanted to just go upstairs and get something.

01:22:25.760 And he didn't want me to leave the house.

01:22:27.880 So he blocked the stairs and pushed me down the stairs.

01:22:30.400 Now, I had forgotten about times that he had hurt me because I was used to putting things out of my mind.

01:22:39.940 And sticking to the storyline, white-figured fence, beautiful family.

01:22:46.080 And we're not those people.

01:22:49.160 But we became an episode of Jerry Springer.

01:22:53.160 Yeah, that's what we became.

01:22:54.860 And I had forgotten about being pushed down the stairs.

01:22:58.120 But my kids, they didn't forget.

01:23:00.240 They don't forget their mother being physically abused.

01:23:04.180 And I don't forget the emotional stuff.

01:23:07.060 And to me, the stuff that he tried to get me to do in the bedroom, that sexual abuse.

01:23:13.740 Trying to coerce me into acting like we're lesbians.

01:23:18.800 Him dressing up as a woman.

01:23:20.580 And we're going to do these things like girls.

01:23:24.080 And I didn't go along with that.

01:23:26.600 But that's coercion.

01:23:28.120 And, you know, insisting on being the submissive in the bedroom.

01:23:33.840 That's the kind of thing that that fetishy behavior does to a marriage.

01:23:38.320 And I know I'm kind of painting this picture that people don't really want to think about.

01:23:44.240 It's a pretty ugly picture.

01:23:45.440 But what I'm explaining, and much worse, happens to women who are married to these narcissistic men

01:23:53.220 that society now celebrates and protects.

01:23:56.720 Now, that's not the cover of Vanity Fair.

01:23:58.720 That's a darker reality.

01:24:00.720 Right.

01:24:01.220 It makes me think of people now who really want to compartmentalize society.

01:24:07.480 They say, oh, what I do in my private life, that doesn't affect my public life.

01:24:12.060 What I do on my computer doesn't affect my real, you know, practical life.

01:24:17.860 As though we're different people.

01:24:19.180 As though we can be.

01:24:22.160 A guy could have the white picket fence, the nice family.

01:24:25.360 He can look like an upstanding family guy.

01:24:27.880 And if he's spending his nights looking at weird stuff on the computer, putting on weird clothing,

01:24:32.960 saying, oh, what does it matter to you what I do in my bedroom?

01:24:37.020 That's just in the privacy of my bedroom.

01:24:38.500 Well, the more you indulge in that perverse behavior, the more perverted you're going to become.

01:24:44.200 That's how habits work.

01:24:45.220 That's how vice works.

01:24:45.960 That's how virtue works.

01:24:47.640 And it is going to bleed out.

01:24:50.560 And pretty soon that white picket fence is not going to look so white anymore.

01:24:53.480 Pretty soon that family is not going to stay together anymore.

01:24:55.700 Even think about the role of the state here.

01:24:57.180 The fact that in Texas, don't mess with Texas.

01:25:00.320 Come on, come and get them.

01:25:01.420 This is good red Texas.

01:25:03.060 That Texas would indulge in all of this.

01:25:06.860 Well, of course, because just as in our personal lives, so too in public life,

01:25:11.980 you're either going to be pursuing good or bad.

01:25:16.500 You're either going to exalt the truth or you're going to disregard the truth and you're going to live in lies.

01:25:22.580 And we're often fighting these things and we have temptations to go toward the bad stuff

01:25:29.280 and not to practice the virtues.

01:25:31.100 If you move toward the good and true and beautiful and God and you practice virtues,

01:25:39.600 you can keep that white picket fence.

01:25:41.180 Even though the storms are going to come, it's going to get a little gray.

01:25:43.540 You've got to repaint that fence every now and again.

01:25:46.120 But if you don't and you just allow your worst appetites to run away with you,

01:25:52.420 that fence is going to disappear.

01:25:54.560 Even Texas.

01:25:55.860 Even Texas is going to disappear.

01:25:57.300 And a lot faster than many people think.

01:26:00.640 It's already not what people think it is.

01:26:03.300 But, you know, as for your example of public life versus private life and can you keep them separate,

01:26:11.060 I'll just share the example of a librarian in Texas that I discovered when I was investigating drag queen story hours.

01:26:19.820 One particular perverted drag queen came on my radar and his name was Kitty Litter.

01:26:25.980 This guy acts like I have just totally harassed him just by sharing what he had on his social media with the city council and the mayor and the public.

01:26:35.980 Because this guy had a record for prostitution and he was invited by the librarian and allowed to go and read to the children and entertain them and talk to them about gender identity and sexual orientation along with another member of the American Library Association LGBTQ Roundtable.

01:26:57.980 And that librarian, as it turns out, at night was a BDSM leather daddy with he and his partner of 20 years they had been married to.

01:27:10.200 They were, they operate the spanking booth at the local leather and gear club in Austin.

01:27:16.980 A coveted position, a very prestigious role at the leather daddy club.

01:27:23.940 Right, with his, with his spouse that he does that with.

01:27:26.920 And, and this guy is a elementary librarian and not, and the worst part is he was wearing this medallion that was a representative of a leather club.

01:27:37.420 He wears that even at work and even worse than that.

01:27:40.340 Of course.

01:27:40.840 He's got a tattoo on his arm of a ruler.

01:27:44.140 You can only imagine what that measures.

01:27:47.740 A perverse homosexual act, which the picture I discovered of him at the leather, men of leather convention in Chicago that he was at.

01:27:57.300 At M-O-L.

01:27:59.180 Men of leather.

01:28:00.200 I mean, don't, don't ever search their hashtag because it's disgusting.

01:28:04.780 I found pictures of him giving a symbol for that, for that sexual act.

01:28:10.460 And I have that on my website, madmamabear.com.

01:28:14.220 I expose that.

01:28:15.020 The guy still works at the elementary school in Austin.

01:28:18.680 In fact, he now decides which children will be part of their gifted and talented program and interviews people to be accepted into that.

01:28:27.020 It's a special school.

01:28:28.020 Well, because I assume he's a protected class now.

01:28:30.680 You think of people of color and now men of leather.

01:28:34.340 I didn't, I never, never noticed that.

01:28:35.900 He should be a protected class, I guess.

01:28:38.020 And, and I did a FOIA request for their, their email and text exchanges.

01:28:45.200 And the librarian was communicating with the drag queen about me.

01:28:50.260 They were talking about how upset I was going to be when I discovered that the drag queen prostitute,

01:28:55.280 who I had already exposed as being involved in the drag queen story hour in Austin libraries,

01:29:00.900 was going to be entertaining kids at the public school.

01:29:03.900 And he also coached him on how to get around the background check at the school.

01:29:09.400 Pretty soon there won't be a background check.

01:29:11.040 Well, I mean, there wasn't a background check in the, the case with the drag queen story hour in Houston public libraries.

01:29:18.120 They, they were supposed to do them, but that would have been a microaggression, don't you know,

01:29:21.920 to actually do background checks for drag queens and transsexuals who, you know, want to spend time with people's kids.

01:29:30.720 I'm very even keel.

01:29:32.560 It's probably the reason that I don't have more views on my show is that I don't become visibly angry very often.

01:29:39.400 It takes a lot.

01:29:41.040 Your story fills me with such a deep abiding anger at, at, at just the, at every single level,

01:29:52.940 constant injustice of it all and the worsening injustice of it all.

01:29:56.660 It, I might have my once a year outburst of just yelling or something.

01:30:02.640 I mean, it's, it's so, it's just so evil what they've done and what they've done to the country and what they've done to families and what they're doing to children, what they're doing to women and what they're doing.

01:30:15.600 And they're doing it to the applause of very, very bad, rotten people who are, who are being encouraged on a path of delusion and perversity and degeneracy.

01:30:25.820 And the fact that it happened in Texas, I can't get past it.

01:30:31.160 And I just think, if, if, is it just you?

01:30:35.820 You're the only person who we're all counting on to, no, is no one else going to stand up?

01:30:40.080 Is no one else going to?

01:30:41.060 We need more people to stand up for the right things.

01:30:44.900 You know, Texas just passed a law to protect women's sports.

01:30:50.060 Yay.

01:30:50.780 But we haven't protected the bathrooms.

01:30:53.820 But those are just extra, you know, topics.

01:31:01.080 The main thing is what is a woman?

01:31:04.940 What is a man?

01:31:06.360 What is a family?

01:31:06.820 What does sex mean?

01:31:07.980 What is a family?

01:31:08.700 And are we ordering society and law in such a way to protect the family, which is the ultimate safe place for children?

01:31:18.920 And we're not doing that.

01:31:21.060 Texas had the opportunity this year to advance legislation.

01:31:25.720 There were, there were bills written that would define what a man and a woman is in law.

01:31:30.760 We need to do that now as crazy as it seems.

01:31:34.360 Because we did it before, because we used to have common sense, and we didn't have this new religion that's being foisted on all of us.

01:31:43.840 But we had the chance, and we didn't do it.

01:31:46.240 Just like in 2021, we didn't protect the children.

01:31:49.480 We still haven't accomplished protecting families or parents or parental rights when they go up against this issue in court.

01:31:56.860 We can still be medically kidnapped and taken to another state, because all institutions are not on our side.

01:32:04.000 We may have stopped some doctors from doing it right in Texas, but we haven't stopped them from what I found,

01:32:10.320 because I messaged a doctor acting like I was a 17-year-old saying that I wanted to get the hormones and stuff.

01:32:16.840 Well, you can get them just $500 is all I need, and I'll have them to you in 30 days after one appointment.

01:32:22.240 And you can still do that in Texas.

01:32:26.200 And I'm so glad to hear you say it's not just about the girls' sports.

01:32:30.820 I hope girls have a nice time playing their sports.

01:32:32.840 I hope they get scholarships.

01:32:34.080 No one cares about girls' sports.

01:32:35.800 Three people watched the WNBA.

01:32:37.660 It's not about that.

01:32:38.760 It's about the justice of it, and it's about a fundamental political issue,

01:32:43.880 because the family is the basic unit of politics.

01:32:47.760 The individual is not actually the basic unit of politics.

01:32:50.020 It's the family.

01:32:50.640 That's the structure, right?

01:32:52.120 Politics means public.

01:32:53.500 And so as goes the family, so goes the country.

01:32:56.380 As goes the country, so goes the family.

01:32:58.360 You can't neatly divorce these two things, because one is a microcosm of the other.

01:33:02.860 And both are in turmoil, and you've experienced it in a much more personal way than most people have.

01:33:08.460 But many more people are going to experience it in that personal way if we don't stand up to defend them both.

01:33:14.280 Tracy, thank you so much for coming on.

01:33:16.540 Thank you.

01:33:20.640 Thank you.

01:33:22.460 Thank you.

01:33:25.060 Thank you.

01:33:26.280 Thank you.

The Michael Knowles Show - October 05, 2025

The Interview They Didn't Want You To See： Michael & The Trans Widow ｜ Tracy Shannon

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