They Just Want to Diddle Kids ｜ Auron Macintyre
Episode Stats
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Summary
In this episode, I sit down with conservative writer and pundit Oren McIntyre to discuss a question that has been on everyone s mind lately: why does the left want to have sex with little kids? Is it because they re perverts, or because they want to do it in public schools?
Transcript
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Of all of the perplexing questions in politics, and there are a lot of them,
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sometimes the libs do things that we don't expect them to do.
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Politics seems to get more and more confusing each day.
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But the one issue that I know a lot of us are scratching our heads on is,
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why are the libs spending so much time and money trying to push weird sex stuff on little kids?
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They're pushing pornography in elementary school libraries.
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They're pushing all sorts of creepy, weird sex stuff with kids.
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And people come up with all of these deep, profound, esoteric answers.
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There's one man who's given an answer that went completely viral.
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He's a columnist, recovering journalist, YouTuber.
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And he said, hey guys, it's not that complicated.
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They're just perverts and they want to diddle kids.
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Before we get into your answer on that question,
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You don't really expect it to kind of do what it did.
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But I think it's because it kind of spoke to a truth that a lot of us felt,
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It wasn't really couched in a lot of academic language.
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But it broke through a lot of those kind of different layers of abstraction
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And people are so kind of hesitant to do that today that I think it just kind of spoke to
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I think that tweet might have been the first time I was introduced to you and your work.
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He's really, really cutting through all the, as you say, the jargon and all of that nonsense.
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And one thing that I have really enjoyed from your writing that I've tried to do myself is
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You reserve a lot of your ire for conservatives and squishes and all that sort of thing
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who in many ways seem to be nothing more than the court jesters in the kingdom of liberalism.
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That our political problems maybe run a little bit deeper than just Republican versus Democrat.
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Yeah, when we look at what's going on, it's really easy to get trapped into the frame that's
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handed to us by the media and even our conservative media, right?
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And so when we look at that, it's very easy to focus on the day-to-day issues and policy decisions
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and not ask questions about the wider political scenario.
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Why are we so invested in these particular political battle lines?
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Were there any other points in history where right and left looked different?
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What are kind of the core things that something like, say, conservatism is actually conserving?
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Because if we look at it, it doesn't seem like very much.
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And so kind of as we look a little below the surface, I think that that's kind of where
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some of my stuff breaks through is we can get outside of that mainstream frame and maybe
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explore some of those areas and ask, are these opinions something that are organic,
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that makes sense with our worldview, our religion, our morality, or is it something that's been
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handed to us and we're defending because we've been told that's the team we're on?
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And I think that's something that makes a big difference.
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And then when someone hands you the framework that you're supposed to play in, very often
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you end up in a situation where it's heads, I win, tails, you lose.
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And there's really no way that you can have a victory.
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Even these terms left and right, they refer to the French Revolution.
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And so maybe there's more in our political order.
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And I guess Donald Trump really brought a lot of this to the surface in 2016, where all
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of a sudden you had a lot of people who had said they were Republicans.
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I mean, the Bush family, for goodness sakes, lining up against the Republican nominee at
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It was only Bob Dole, was the only living Republican nominee for president who actually showed up
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And you had a lot of conservatives saying, no, I hate Trump on tariffs.
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If this is what it means to be a Republican, if this is what it means to be a conservative,
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And there's been a whole lot of soul searching that's gone on.
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So I guess then I just ask you, as we're all trying to figure this out, what should conservatives
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Well, and that's a really difficult question, because I think that requires conservatives
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to look at kind of the core of their ideology that they've been invested in defending for
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The core of American conservatism is largely classical liberalism.
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And classical liberalism on boards a lot of assumptions that kind of lead it to lose against
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the more radical versions of liberalism that are now kind of in vogue in kind of our ruling
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And so because conservatives are always in a mindset of, say, for instance, small government
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at any cost, they tie their own hands when it comes to implementing agendas that will
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benefit the family, benefit religious conservatives, benefit other people who are part of their
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And so that's something that conservatives really need to do some soul searching on.
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You know, Patrick Dedean has a book called Why Liberalism Failed.
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And for those who haven't read it and are kind of interested in it, I think it's a really
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good place to start, because Patrick Dedean explains that liberalism has been cracked and
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The Democrats got the social version of liberalism, and the Republicans got the economic version
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And you'll notice that whenever the Republicans are in power, the only thing that gets passed
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And when the left is in power, for some reason, none of that redistributive justice or those
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It's all the crazy social stuff that gets pushed.
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It's always these versions, these halves of liberalism that are always being pushed forward.
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And so that's why you end up in that game like you were talking about, heads I win, tails
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So I guess one of the assumptions that both the left and the right tend to focus on and begin
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with in America, at least these days, is that the basic unit of society is the individual.
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And you see it play out just as you're describing.
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The individual gets to shtup pretty much whoever he wants to and gets to engage in whatever personal
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And for the conservatives, they say, well, the individual should be able to keep all of
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his own money and make all of his own choices about his personal life.
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You can do whatever you want, just don't make me pay for it sort of thing.
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And when I look at that assumption, I say, wait a second, this isn't, that's not conservative
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Edmund Burke, you know, one of the, considered one of the founders of modern conservative
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philosophy, and many of the founding fathers for that matter, would be rolling in their
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Because it seems to me that the basic unit of society is the family.
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You remember when conservatives used to talk about the family?
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Now we haven't conserved the definition of the family.
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And we're using all the same kind of individualist language that the libs use.
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How do we get back to a kind of family-oriented, I don't know, traditional sort of political
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It always wants to take away power from the periphery and centralize it under its control.
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And so what's been very powerful for government has been the narrative of the individual.
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Because what that has done is allowed it to liberate people from what used to be these
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We used to all be part of families and churches and civic organizations and guilds and unions
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and different things that demanded our loyalty and our money and our time.
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But over the years, those different intermediate organizations have dissolved themselves.
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Those bonds that used to bring communities together and hold them together without the
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interference of the government have been removed.
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And in their place, the government has stepped in as kind of a weak counterpart, right?
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But it's also part of so many other things that the government has involved itself in.
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It always comes with a promise of liberation for the individual, right?
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Why do we have to involve the government here to guarantee your right to something else, right?
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And so by dissolving those bonds, the government has been able to take on more and more centralized
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power, sometimes under the idea of collectivism, sometimes under the idea of individualism.
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But it's always in the service of breaking down those institutions that were competing
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with the government and centralizing the power back with the state.
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I sometimes think if Karl Marx were alive today, mercifully, he is not.
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He's looking up at us right now and watching us conduct this interview.
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But if Marx were alive today, I sort of think he wouldn't be a Democrat.
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I think he would be in the Tea Party or something.
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I think he would probably describe himself as a radical individualist.
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I mean, when you talk to radicals on the left, they very frequently use the language of
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individualism in much the same way as you might hear someone on the American right use that
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Well, you can only bring the big bundle of sticks together when the sticks have been broken
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out of all those associations, the family, the community, the churches.
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Once they've been broken out of all of those structures and then they're just alone as individuals,
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then you bind them up together in the collective of the state or you see it on the left in communism.
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So it seems to be one of those two sides of the same coin kind of issue that the opposite
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Those two actually kind of seem to help each other.
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It's the family and the churches and all those intermediate institutions.
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So the word you use there at the very top is an important one.
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You said power, that power is kind of flowing between these institutions.
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That's a naughty word for a lot of American conservatives.
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We want to say, look, you just take the power back.
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A lot of, you know, one of the ideas of conservatism, because it's taken this libertarian
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bent, is the idea that they can take this power, right?
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They can take the ring of power and they can throw it into Mount Doom.
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You can destroy the power and then no one has to deal with its consequences.
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It can simply just be handed from one to another.
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And so American conservatives, we like to believe that the constitution allows us to
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basically avoid being ruled because the constitution is this delicate balance of, you know, checks
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and balances and separation of powers, Montesquieu and all this stuff allows us to basically
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And so because we're under the rule of law, we don't have to worry about kind of the people
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who are in control of our system because we don't actually serve them.
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And this kind of objective system operates in the background and make sure that everything
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But as we're seeing very often today, it's becoming increasingly clear.
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No one is ever actually governed just by a system.
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Laws are really powerless to constrain the actions of an organized minority of people who want
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to subvert them as long as those people are operating in the correct institutions and
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positions of power inside the American government.
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I think that we're seeing maybe even the left see that a little bit with the Supreme Court
00:12:31.860
You see them suddenly losing their minds because they have to deal with the same kind of phenomenon
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that American conservatives have dealt with for many, many decades, that a small minority
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can basically change on a dime what has been kind of the reality inside the United States.
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And so conservatives have to be more comfortable with the idea of power and the use of it because
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if they're not, I have another tweet that kind of goes around, the team that wants to
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win always beats the people who just want to be left alone, right?
00:13:07.560
They just want to go out and enjoy Fourth of July.
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They don't have time to become professional activists and scream at the heavens every time
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And you can never live in this kind of fantasy where the government is just going to leave
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Every generation has to care about the values that are being inculcated and the things that
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are then being passed into law and carried forward.
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You don't just get to kind of put the government on autopilot and let it protect your rights once
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Unfortunately, we never escape the rule of men and we have to then generate good leaders
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and put them in positions that will defend our values and our families.
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We can't just hand it over to the Constitution and hope that it does the job all by itself.
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But we are at this dispositional disadvantage here that you've totally hit on correctly,
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which is as conservatives, you'll sometimes see these social scientific surveys go around.
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They say conservatives are hotter than leftists or something like that.
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And whenever I see those, I always think, yeah, duh, we're pretty content with the way things
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We're not, we don't dye our hair crazy colors and put in all sorts of mutilations and go
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screaming and shrieking in front of government buildings all the time.
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We conservatives, we just, we took the grill pill, man.
00:14:47.100
We just want to stay and grill and spend time with our nice families, often in the suburbs.
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And even I think, man, can't I just go home and grill up my delicious good rancher's steak
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and, you know, have a nice drink and have a good life?
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Conservatives naturally don't want to, don't feel the same burning fire to go out and wield
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And so that, that is a dispositional issue, but you're so right.
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It's not, we are not simply governed by letters on a page of a statute.
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It's against federal law to protest in front of a judge's house to influence a case.
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It went on for weeks after the leak from the Dobbs decision.
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Even though you had a Republican governor in Virginia, presumably you had a federal law
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enforcement that is supposed to enforce these laws and they just, they just don't do it.
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You, you saw the, the double standards during the, the vying insurrections of 2020 and 2021.
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You had BLM burn the country down for eight months.
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In some cases people were arrested and, and the current vice president, the now vice president
00:16:03.280
Meanwhile, Hornhat guy busts into the Capitol and cracks a Coors Light and they throw those
00:16:08.840
people into solitary confinement and they practically throw away the key.
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So the law is not going to enforce itself, certainly not going to enforce itself in a neutral
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And that's really the, the million dollar question, right?
00:16:29.500
Because what we're seeing so often is the impotence of elected leaders, even somebody who might
00:16:36.040
be more dedicated like Trump, look at like a, a executive order, Trump issues versus an
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executive order that Obama or Biden issues and the effectiveness of those orders.
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Trump issues an executive order and his own generals, his own executive branch, they just
00:16:54.000
They just completely move forward with whatever they're doing and they just hide it from the
00:17:01.160
Barack Obama issues the executive order about genders and bathrooms.
00:17:04.860
And all of a sudden, every organization in the country jumps to attention and follows it as
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Including private organizations, not just government organizations, the whole kit and
00:17:18.400
And so you have to ask yourself as an American conservative who believes in the constitution
00:17:24.000
Both of these men had the same elective office.
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Both of these men operated under the same rules.
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Both of these men use the same instrument, but they have decidedly different impacts and
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That's the key question that you need to understand.
00:17:39.740
And once you understand it, you better grasp where the power sits.
00:17:43.420
What you start to realize is not all of our power is simply in the branches as explained
00:17:50.880
It exists in things like our educational institutions.
00:17:53.580
It exists in things like non-government organizations.
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It exists in things like the permanent bureaucracy that people call the deep state.
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Far more power resides in those institutions than resides in any one particular man who's
00:18:08.180
And so while conservatives love to win elections and love to think that one elected official
00:18:13.440
will step in and change those things, they need to understand that the rot is far deeper.
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It sits well into things like the FBI, things like our university system.
00:18:23.960
And those are things that, if you're going to change things, have to fundamentally be rearranged,
00:18:30.580
possibly dismantled and rebuilt if you're going to see real change.
00:18:33.960
You can't simply just stick someone into an elected office, say, oh, throw out all the
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Because when a Republican is president, even a conservative Republican, even a conservative
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Republican with his head pretty much screwed on straight, it is just a different thing
00:18:53.920
I sometimes think of this when it comes to the media, because when I see anonymous reports
00:18:59.320
in NBC or the New York Times, Washington Post about a Republican president, I usually dismiss
00:19:06.860
When I see anonymous sourcing in a report in NBC and New York Times and Washington Post about
00:19:12.340
a Democrat president, I'm not so quick to dismiss them.
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Is this because I'm a hypocrite and I just want to believe whatever is good for my side
00:19:24.540
The reason, at least the way that I think about it, is that they're different things.
00:19:31.040
When the left-wing media is going after the right-wing president, that is to be expected.
00:19:36.960
When the left-wing media are going after the left-wing president, that's a totally different
00:19:47.520
And so, even though it looks like it's the same thing, because the people are different,
00:19:52.000
because the movements inside of those power structures are different, the way to understand
00:19:58.340
Yeah, there's this guy, Antonio Gramsci, and he was a Marxist, and he wanted a revolution
00:20:04.200
like the one that he had seen in Russia, but he couldn't get it going.
00:20:08.160
He ended up writing a lot in a prison in Italy.
00:20:11.060
I always say this was Mussolini's worst thing that Mussolini ever did.
00:20:14.040
Maybe not the worst thing, but it was up there.
00:20:16.040
He put that man in prison, and not because he didn't deserve it, but then it focused
00:20:20.840
Gramsci's mind, and all of the guy's contributions to philosophy come out of him sitting in prison.
00:20:27.380
So you're familiar with the fact that basically Gramsci said, we're not going to get a communist
00:20:31.520
revolution in kind of these Western countries the way we got it in Russia, because they're
00:20:36.900
You can't create this deep class divide the way you can in these other countries and kind
00:20:44.300
So what we need is this cultural hegemony, right?
00:20:48.600
Most people have probably heard the long march through the institutions, right?
00:20:52.340
And that's what's going to gain you power in the West.
00:20:55.740
The fault line is not going to be this class divide of rich versus poor directly, though
00:21:02.280
it ends up spilling out in that way in other permutations.
00:21:06.760
But it's going to be along things like race and gender and these other aspects of society
00:21:12.460
that allow them to create kind of these fulcrums, right?
00:21:16.320
There are a lot of people who are willing to sign up for a revolution that's going to
00:21:19.680
put their ideas first, their priorities first, and subvert kind of the way that your society
00:21:29.400
And so it is by grasping hold of these different institutions that these kind of ideologies
00:21:36.760
And a lot of what we're seeing has been sitting around for a very long time.
00:21:40.420
A lot of people, especially kind of these IDW, you know, classical liberal type folks, love
00:21:45.980
to think that wokeness is just some kind of descendant, it's a, you know, progressive
00:21:50.080
them just went a little too far, it went off the rails.
00:21:52.560
And if we can just dial things back 10 years, if we can roll liberalism back to the last
00:21:59.320
What they don't realize is that wokeness is in many ways like a direct descendant of things
00:22:05.200
And so this ideology has been built into our system for a very long time.
00:22:10.420
And its implications are simply being felt full force many, many decades after it's
00:22:15.960
been deeply seeded through pretty much every aspect of our society.
00:22:20.240
You're seeing some conversation about that now.
00:22:23.020
I'm reminded of Chris Caldwell's book, Age of Entitlement, came out a few years ago.
00:22:26.640
So you're starting to see a little bit of this discussion of, huh, maybe wokeness isn't
00:22:35.840
So, okay, we've talked about Gramsci, we've talked about cultural hegemony, we've talked
00:22:39.700
about all of these things that are very important from a 30,000 foot view.
00:22:43.580
Now, for people who are listening, before I let you go, people who are listening right
00:22:47.040
now, they're saying, what do I do in the year of our Lord, 2022?
00:22:51.960
There's going to be a presidential election in 2024.
00:22:56.620
What tangibly would you encourage conservatives to do?
00:22:59.880
Yeah, again, this is a really difficult question.
00:23:01.900
First and foremost, because your audience may not like me for this, but I'm not a big fan
00:23:09.360
And what we have is a fundamentally democratic problem.
00:23:11.980
One of the issues that conservatives have is they buy into this myth of kind of like
00:23:18.600
That if you get enough people together, because we see the left do this, right?
00:23:21.920
They get a bunch of protesters together, they stand outside stuff, they chant, they yell,
00:23:27.080
And we think to ourselves, that's how things get done, right?
00:23:31.200
But as we talked about, we see a very different reaction from when a leftist mob shows up to
00:23:36.520
And then when some right wing protesters showed up, right?
00:23:39.060
Left wing mobs, they have the the sanction of the state, they have the sanction of the
00:23:45.140
They have the vice president bailing them out of jail, right wing people show up and they
00:23:49.640
sit in basically black sites, you know, getting, you know, getting denied food and sleep for
00:23:55.800
So we do not sit in kind of this even play field where the left can, you know, and the
00:24:02.140
right both can use this popular will to drive things.
00:24:04.800
Whether we like it or not, society is always ruled by an organized minority, right?
00:24:10.600
It is actually our elites that dictate in large ways what happens in our country.
00:24:16.160
They always need a connection to kind of the popular consciousness and the zeitgeist and the
00:24:21.300
But we need to start understanding and focusing on the fact that we need a better class of
00:24:27.300
We need a class of leaders that is willing to step out there, defend the things that we
00:24:31.560
want them to defend, fight for the things we need them to fight for and have our well-being
00:24:36.200
in mind, not the well-being of other nations or of their own personal patronage, you know,
00:24:45.720
And to be fair, all elites are going to do that.
00:24:47.720
That's another thing that kind of conservatives need to understand is what we want.
00:24:57.020
What we want are elites that are aligned with our interests, whose well-being is tied to the
00:25:01.700
well-being of the average American worker and the average American family, not to some
00:25:06.900
multinational corporation or some giant NGO somewhere or some super PAC, right?
00:25:12.360
And so in a lot of ways, I think looking at people like Ron DeSantis, right?
00:25:17.980
A lot of people want Ron DeSantis to run for president.
00:25:21.560
But I think that's a mistake because what he is doing is setting up a kind of test run
00:25:31.820
So you're saying you would rather DeSantis stay in Florida and keep building up that power
00:25:36.460
I would take 10 more DeSantis as governors before I would take one DeSantis as president
00:25:43.100
because I think that 10 more DeSantis would have a far larger impact on their individual
00:25:48.840
states and regions and their ability to change the values and the structures and the power
00:25:54.120
bases and the things that exist there and also give us a model for how these regional,
00:25:59.260
how federalism was actually supposed to work, right?
00:26:01.460
The idea that the government shouldn't be able to push down vaccine mandates and mask
00:26:06.420
mandates and educational mandates on every single inch of the United States.
00:26:11.560
That's not how our system is supposed to operate.
00:26:14.460
And if we had more people who were conscious of that and willing to step out beyond kind of
00:26:19.480
this federal prison that most of these regional powers have been placed in, I think that would
00:26:25.860
I think conservatives have a much better chance of changing things on that level.
00:26:29.280
That doesn't mean that things don't need to happen at the national level, but if you're
00:26:32.740
hoping to just like shove DeSantis or Trump into the White House in 2024 and that will
00:26:38.220
just fundamentally change the direction America is going in, I don't think you've been paying
00:26:41.880
attention to what's been happening in America in the last few decades.
00:26:46.720
And, you know, you say somewhat provocatively that you're distrustful of democracy.
00:26:50.680
Worth remembering that the founding fathers themselves had a pretty healthy skepticism of mob
00:26:55.920
rule and democracy. And, you know, they constructed a system that has since decayed and been
00:27:02.260
perverted. And there have been all sorts of problems over the ensuing centuries. But they
00:27:06.380
created a system that was in large part designed to rein in the popular passions. And but but to your
00:27:13.980
point, power has moved around in in ways that have have really not been to the benefit of the
00:27:20.800
country. And it's going to take a lot more than one presidential election to fix that.
00:27:25.400
I really I really love your point, though, on we've got this governor is the most powerful
00:27:28.900
governor, most effective governor I've seen. So I certainly that I see around the country
00:27:33.140
today. What if we what if we stopped playing the game that the libs are handing us? What if we
00:27:38.060
start saying, well, what if we build up more of those kinds of power centers? What if the rules
00:27:41.940
aren't if the rules of the game aren't working for us? What if we change the rules?
00:27:45.440
Really great point. Orin, where can people find you?
00:27:47.200
Oh, absolutely. I've got a YouTube channel. I've got a sub stack where I put out different
00:27:53.620
articles and and podcasts and things. So if people want to find me there, you can just look
00:27:58.920
for Orin McIntyre. I've got a Twitter, which is where most people know me from. And there's
00:28:03.500
a link tree there that can just bring people to where all my work is on all the different
00:28:07.280
sites and that kind of thing. Excellent. Orin, thank you for coming on the show. I appreciate
00:28:10.940
it. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.