00:12:06.320If you insist unrealistically, things are always going to be roses, they're always going to come up sunshine, and nothing I ever don't like is going to happen.
00:13:10.520And so I decided I was going to walk through it with that mentality.
00:13:14.640You know, I think there was an observation.
00:13:16.280I just came across it yesterday, actually, of St. Thomas More, who met a grisly end because of King Henry VIII.
00:13:22.640But he said, look, it's all up to God.
00:13:25.620And whatever happens, even if I don't really seem to like it at any given moment, whatever happens, I know that if God wills it, and even if God is permitting it, it is for the best.
00:13:58.600And so we really had to pray about it, and that took a while, a few weeks, to decide, which really upset my oncology team because I wasn't making a decision, like, right, you know, then in front of them, jumping into treatments.
00:14:09.680And so we decided that doing an integrative approach is what we wanted to do.
00:14:14.700So a little holistic, woo-woo, hippy-dippy, a little bit.
00:15:40.640And every good result I got back, I was just, like, tucking in a way, like, yes, more good news, more good news.
00:15:46.000And then when I went back to MD Anderson, the plan with them was to do two rounds of immunotherapy, which I don't know if you know much about immunotherapy.
00:17:09.920It was this, like, in this region, it was this big.
00:17:13.400Like, and so I'm like, Lord, what is going on, you know?
00:17:20.020And I can say it now because it has a happy ending.
00:17:22.740But, I mean, in those weeks, just being a mom of young children and not being able to go upstairs to put them to bed and make their meals and take care of them.
00:17:36.900I mean, it was the hardest two weeks of my life, okay?
00:19:45.000Like, but in that moment, I remember, because I had been just so strong, like, mentally and in my faith, but, like, in that moment, I remember telling my mom, I was, like, even if he is calling me home, I'm just so thankful for everything he's already done.
00:20:05.600Like, my salvation, the cross, like, my family.
00:20:08.180Like, he's already done so much for me.
00:20:09.900Like, I'm not, I'm not going to hold this against him, you know?
00:20:14.660Like, like, I feel like I fully surrendered in that moment.
00:20:20.860And I remember talking to my sister, and I was, and I asked her, I was, like, what if this is, what if this is the end?
00:20:26.320And I think whenever you have to contemplate your mortality, like, your actual death, you know, when you get hit by a bus or something, you don't really think about it.
00:20:35.240But when you have to sit there through the sickness and think through it, I think that's when your roots really, really go down in your faith.
00:20:46.300Because you have to look at it and say, I'm okay.
00:20:51.340I am fully surrendered with whatever you have for me, Lord.
00:24:21.420And he just kept having this idea of a meat company and how if you did it with integrity and ethically, like, it could just be really, really great.
00:24:50.900And, you know, obviously the Lord's gone before us and blessed that.
00:24:54.140But I just remember him, he was so shook after hearing that.
00:24:59.360Like, it was a different speaking experience than, you know, maybe what I had ever experienced through words, scripture, songs, whatever, how the Lord usually is communicating with me.
00:25:12.760And he said, well, I just knew in the moment that it was truth.
00:25:18.820And he's like, it wasn't an audible, like, thunderous voice.
00:25:22.080The heavens didn't open, but I just knew it was truth in my heart and in my spirit.
00:25:26.580And there was no confusion about who it was that was talking to him.
00:28:11.120This is next level because there's just going from I'm going to trust in God and not go totally black pill doomer when the doctors give me the death sentence.
00:28:24.100Just that alone, I think the vast majority of people cannot do, including, including believing Christians who just through the frailties of this world would have a great deal of trouble doing that.
00:28:57.080And you say, I heard, I heard from the man himself.
00:29:03.980And so I am now going to, I don't want to say gamble my life, but I am, I'm going to stake my life, my only medical option for survival on what I believe is the word of God.
00:29:26.120How, how difficult was it to persuade, you don't need to tell tales out of school, how difficult was it to persuade your husband and family that this was the right idea?
00:29:35.240Honestly, Ben, Ben was on the same page as me.
00:29:37.860I think he was a little, you know, startled at first maybe, but he totally got on board and he's like, sure, yeah, let's do this.
00:29:45.980And then finally my mom and my sister got on board eventually.
00:29:50.260I mean, it did take a couple of days perhaps, or maybe they'd never gone on board.
00:32:07.500I just knew that God was writing this really, really beautiful and funny story, you know, that it could only have been by the grace of God that it happened.
00:37:45.940It's just that it would seem to me that the rational, practical, logical, most grounded conclusion one would have to draw from your case is, well, God intervened.
00:41:24.520It's hard, obviously, to take yourself out of it because you lived it.
00:41:28.500You're the character in this story that you also happen to be telling.
00:41:32.780How should Christians think about the miracles?
00:41:36.720I think we should believe for the earthly miracles while we're on earth.
00:41:45.180And, and I think that was my frame of mind is until he calls me home, I will believe that the healing that you accomplished on the cross for me by your stripes is for the earthly.
00:41:58.300And if it's not like, okay, like I'm okay with that too.
00:42:01.760But I want to have the faith for the miracles.
00:42:04.460You think of David, he was so strong in his faith, but he still had to run out to a giant with a rock.
00:42:13.420You know, like you still had to do, like you still had to walk it out.
00:42:16.940You know, it didn't just happen on its own.
00:42:19.720Like we play a part in it, which I think is so beautiful that God invites us to do that in the story of, you know, life.
00:44:36.780Like it's not, it's not just miracles in the clouds, you know, it's, it's that, I think sometimes we, when we hear about these miracles throughout the ages, some of the great saints and, you know, some stories are legendary, but some, but plenty of them are like quite well attested to historically.
00:44:55.040Exactly. And I don't know, I, I at least have this idea that the miracles are, God, if this just glorious, ethereal thing.
00:45:11.800Whereas actually, I think a lot of miracles happen when a husband and a wife are sitting in an oncologist's office and they think that the world is crumbling around them.
00:45:21.260And there's some, you know, there's some dingy coffee cup in the corner and there's some doctor who doesn't really know what's up sitting there speaking.
00:45:29.120And it just feels really, really earthly and quotidian.
00:45:34.460And that could be the, the, that is, I mean, you know, our, our Lord is crucified and conquers death on a rotten little hill called Calvary.
00:53:47.100And so I go to confession regularly, not as much as I should, but I go to confession.
00:53:52.540And when, after you've been absolved of your sins, we believe that, you know, you're in a state of grace.
00:54:00.220And you, if you commit venial sins, that weakens grace, but it doesn't sever it.
00:54:06.000And we believe the Eucharist actually forgives venial sins, you know, where it's not a grave matter intentionally done with full knowledge.
00:54:14.760But when you do a mortal sin, which happens, we believe that severs that grace.
00:54:26.040And so you go in and, you know, the priest cuts some demons off you and then you go out.
00:54:29.060But one thing I've noticed very tangibly is when all pistons are firing and I'm in a state of grace and I feel, the world makes more sense.
00:54:41.720Those little coincidences that you might not get, you, you see them.
00:55:51.720And even, I remember when I first tried it, you know, as, as an adult came back into the church and I was 23, 24 and I said, I'm not going to eat food for a day.
00:57:54.060I mean, I'm just taking it honestly a day at a time and I'm just, I'm just praying that God would just steward, help us steward what he's given us and show us what's next.
00:58:07.980I mean, you know, Good Ranchers is awesome and that's growing.
00:58:12.320And, you know, the people we get to minister to, like even in our offices, it's just really sweet and beautiful.