The Michael Knowles Show - March 21, 2026


Viral TIKTOK Atheist REACTION： Dr. Jeremiah Johnston


Episode Stats

Length

43 minutes

Words per Minute

181.364

Word Count

7,805

Sentence Count

816

Misogynist Sentences

5

Hate Speech Sentences

44


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.560 Spring break isn't what it used to be.
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00:00:56.520 Gay crackhead.
00:01:08.120 I am very, very pleased to be joined once again by one of the great guests we've ever had on our shows.
00:01:19.060 Jeremiah Johnston, who is famous in the Michael Knowles show universe for his excellent explication of the Shroud of Turin.
00:01:30.380 And so if you haven't seen it yet, if you're one of the few people who hasn't seen that yet, you have to go.
00:01:34.880 Someone stopped me in the street the other day.
00:01:36.320 About this.
00:01:37.040 Yeah.
00:01:37.460 Jeremiah Johnston interview with Shroud of Turin.
00:01:39.900 So anyway, he's back.
00:01:41.580 We are going to analyze with Jeremiah's great expertise, woke religion TikToks.
00:01:48.640 But before we get to that very, very important work, you've brought some goodies.
00:01:52.920 I have.
00:01:53.500 What have you brought?
00:01:55.180 All the way from Rome.
00:01:56.820 I need you to hold Codex Vaticanus B.
00:02:01.200 Am I able to hold it?
00:02:02.720 Will I physically be?
00:02:03.740 It is 16 pounds.
00:02:04.980 I want you to open it like you're opening your Bible.
00:02:07.600 Wow.
00:02:08.000 This is a facsimile that was issued by Pope John Paul II.
00:02:14.380 He signed it Christmas Day, 1999.
00:02:18.560 These are very hard to come by.
00:02:20.240 So this is...
00:02:20.920 It is an exact facsimile, 739 leaves.
00:02:25.040 This is the entire Greek Bible, Michael.
00:02:27.600 So the Codex Vaticanus, for people who don't know, is one of the oldest Greek manuscripts of the Bible.
00:02:34.980 If not the oldest.
00:02:35.820 It might be the single oldest.
00:02:36.860 This is five years after the Council of Nicaea, 325.
00:02:41.120 So I date it to 330.
00:02:42.720 Remember, my area of expertise is paleography and codecology.
00:02:45.520 Yeah.
00:02:45.900 The fascination that there is no difference, truly.
00:02:50.180 It's 98% text stable, meaning the Bible you open at mass literally matches this with a 98% accuracy.
00:02:59.960 When I was an atheist, I used to say to Christians, I say, well, no, look,
00:03:05.880 how do we even know?
00:03:07.160 I mean, it's been so many years, so many translations.
00:03:09.540 How do we really know?
00:03:10.840 It's a great question.
00:03:11.620 The Bible reading has nothing to do, perhaps.
00:03:13.160 Yes.
00:03:13.740 But then I actually looked into it.
00:03:17.660 No, it's pretty much the exact same thing.
00:03:19.340 Exactly.
00:03:20.000 Literally.
00:03:20.640 You can't get this on Amazon.
00:03:22.000 You can't or eBay.
00:03:23.240 No.
00:03:23.440 And, you know, I'd have to kill you if I told you I got it.
00:03:26.420 Yeah.
00:03:27.020 I know.
00:03:27.420 I know.
00:03:27.880 Who, what sort of underground networks at the Vatican are you plugged into?
00:03:32.100 I can't confirm or deny, but I'm with the Brotherhood.
00:03:34.540 This is magnificent.
00:03:36.340 I love that phrase, that the nearest relative to...
00:03:40.640 Christianity is archaeology.
00:03:41.600 Archaeology.
00:03:42.340 Evidence.
00:03:42.740 I've often described it to people.
00:03:44.960 They say, well, how do you distinguish Christianity from other religions?
00:03:47.900 I say, other religions really begin in poetry or philosophy.
00:03:52.700 Or a crazy vision.
00:03:53.880 Or a crazy vision.
00:03:55.360 And, but in terms of literary genres, Christianity begins in journalism.
00:04:01.480 Exactly.
00:04:01.720 Because the Bible is journalistic accounts.
00:04:03.540 It's a text-based religion.
00:04:05.380 That's amazing.
00:04:06.140 Okay.
00:04:06.600 This is unbelievable.
00:04:08.940 What else do we have?
00:04:09.880 Okay, Michael.
00:04:11.960 Brother, I need you to hold something.
00:04:13.900 I don't know if you remember, but all four Gospels.
00:04:17.220 First, tell me what you're holding.
00:04:19.180 I'm holding a pair of dice.
00:04:20.580 A pair of dice.
00:04:21.320 Now, these are not any dice.
00:04:22.720 These are first century Roman dice.
00:04:25.300 This is the real thing.
00:04:27.040 I'm not saying they're the ones that were gambled in front of Jesus.
00:04:29.880 Yes.
00:04:30.460 But these are two, they're made of bone.
00:04:32.560 What I'm saying, this is not a recreation.
00:04:34.460 No, this is an artifact.
00:04:36.480 Yeah, this is, I just acquired this, again, through my antiquities dealer.
00:04:39.880 You can see the punched, so these are made of bone.
00:04:43.240 All four Gospels record the fact that the executioners were so desensitized to the fact
00:04:50.280 that the author of life is dying before them, and they begin to gamble for his clothes.
00:04:56.380 These are made of bone.
00:04:57.680 They're stamped.
00:04:58.760 Romans love to gamble.
00:05:00.520 So tell me what you're thinking right now.
00:05:01.920 Have you ever held first century Roman dice?
00:05:04.020 And do you know what's, I love dice.
00:05:05.680 I actually, I don't want to tell tales at a school, my stepbrother and I, we would roll
00:05:09.240 CeeLo at bars.
00:05:10.240 Oh, yeah.
00:05:10.480 I love it.
00:05:11.080 I love, we'd roll dice for everything.
00:05:12.280 This puts you in the world of Jesus, though.
00:05:14.060 What's really striking to me is that dice, 2,000 years ago, looked the same.
00:05:19.440 They were a little smaller, otherwise they look exactly the same.
00:05:21.320 And they're made of bone.
00:05:22.300 And they're made of bone.
00:05:22.900 We were in the drive-thru and one of my triplets said, Dad, they stink really bad.
00:05:26.620 I was like, son, they're 2,000 years old.
00:05:28.680 Yeah, that'll do it.
00:05:29.820 Yeah.
00:05:30.940 Can I?
00:05:31.700 Yes, please.
00:05:32.580 Yeah.
00:05:33.340 Absolutely.
00:05:34.040 We'll roll them two.
00:05:34.420 No.
00:05:35.440 We rolled nine?
00:05:36.000 Yeah, a nine.
00:05:36.700 There we go.
00:05:37.280 There you go.
00:05:37.680 Three to the third.
00:05:39.080 So there it is.
00:05:39.700 Oh, three to the three.
00:05:40.060 So these are the kind of artifacts that I bring out in the Jesus discoveries, because I want
00:05:44.620 people to know that if we cannot believe that Jesus died and rose again, based on the evidence
00:05:49.240 outside the Bible, we shouldn't believe that Caesar crossed the Rubicon.
00:05:52.380 Yeah.
00:05:52.960 The evidence is that strong.
00:05:54.200 Right.
00:05:54.540 And there's pictures throughout.
00:05:55.580 This was a labor of love doing this book, because there's photographs throughout it.
00:05:59.140 I got all the permissions from all the archaeologists that help us really understand how these bring
00:06:05.280 us closer to Jesus.
00:06:06.260 That's the whole point.
00:06:06.960 It's not to be smarter.
00:06:08.300 I wanted the book to bring, like, do you feel closer to Jesus now that you've held dice?
00:06:12.320 Right.
00:06:12.620 And it's like, wow.
00:06:13.980 We were talking a little bit earlier, because I've had a lot of conversations with my friends
00:06:19.160 about this.
00:06:19.520 A friend of mine has given me quite a number of holy relics, first-class relics.
00:06:25.080 Amazing.
00:06:25.520 The bone of martyrs.
00:06:27.580 Amazing.
00:06:28.200 And it's funny.
00:06:29.720 I was telling a Christian friend of mine, I mentioned this to him, and he recoiled.
00:06:34.160 He said, oh, I don't really like, I don't like the relics.
00:06:35.920 Why?
00:06:36.120 But there is a certain strain that has been around since antiquity of iconoclast or a kind
00:06:42.760 of Christianity that says, no, no, we should only focus on spiritual things, not physical
00:06:46.480 things.
00:06:47.220 And I get it.
00:06:48.480 You don't want to be idolatrous in any way.
00:06:50.200 But, you know, Christianity is an incarnational faith.
00:06:54.660 So for me, when I hold the dice, when I examine whatever, even a facsimile of this 1700-year-old
00:07:03.220 Bible, it speaks to the fact that, you know, we're soul, we're spirit, and body.
00:07:10.700 That's right.
00:07:11.060 I can feel, you know, like people touch the hem of Christ's garment.
00:07:14.360 Literally.
00:07:14.660 And we're healed.
00:07:15.460 That's right.
00:07:15.880 Okay, what else do we have?
00:07:17.560 I know.
00:07:18.320 I want you to hold this.
00:07:19.860 Jesus in Matthew 19 says, it's easier for a rich man to go through the eye of a needle.
00:07:27.860 A camel to go through the eye.
00:07:28.840 Yeah.
00:07:30.180 It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, thank you, than for a rich man
00:07:35.500 to enter the kingdom of heaven.
00:07:36.820 You're holding a Roman needle, and you can imagine him holding that.
00:07:41.480 That is a first century Roman needle.
00:07:43.480 That is not a replica.
00:07:44.300 I got one more quick one.
00:07:45.760 Okay.
00:07:45.980 All right.
00:07:46.480 I need you to hold, now this is brand new.
00:07:47.920 I did not have this for Michael Ann.
00:07:49.600 Yeah.
00:07:50.180 I need you to hold an actual crucifixion nail.
00:07:53.660 You held a replica before.
00:07:55.240 This was unearthed in Jerusalem.
00:07:57.080 I know it's first century because of the square shaft.
00:07:59.980 Put it against your wrist and just get the feel.
00:08:02.900 So, and I want to ask you a question.
00:08:04.960 Do you notice how it's bent?
00:08:06.940 Yeah, yeah.
00:08:07.780 It's bent because it was used so many times.
00:08:09.880 They would reuse crucifixion nails on all of their prisoners.
00:08:14.380 So can you imagine, there's DNA on this, there's rust, and the reason that it's bent, Michael,
00:08:20.600 is they would want to minimize movement but maximize torment.
00:08:24.640 So they would adjust the nails while the victim was being crucified.
00:08:29.360 Here's the faith lesson.
00:08:31.780 Even the nails that put our Lord and Savior on the cross had probably been used on others
00:08:36.200 that deserve death, and yet he didn't.
00:08:38.240 That, it never occurred to me.
00:08:41.240 You know, all of the indignity of the cross.
00:08:43.100 Right.
00:08:43.540 And to think.
00:08:44.180 Which is meant to...
00:08:44.460 A used nail.
00:08:45.700 A used nail.
00:08:46.380 Four of them.
00:08:47.660 You somehow always have the greatest goodie bag.
00:08:52.180 I have what you gave me, the man on the trout.
00:08:55.040 Yes, yes.
00:08:55.360 I have that displayed in my office.
00:08:57.580 Yes, right.
00:08:57.720 I see that whenever I walk into my office.
00:08:59.580 There's a lot more to say.
00:09:00.620 First, though, go to hallow.com slash Knowles, K-N-A-W-L-E-S.
00:09:04.180 We're deep in Lent, walking steadily toward Holy Week, the cross, and the resurrection.
00:09:08.160 This is not a season for the half-hearted.
00:09:09.820 Lent is a summons to conversion, to strip away what dulls the soul and return to God with
00:09:13.580 sincerity.
00:09:14.640 This time of year demands movement, prayer, fasting, and self-gift, and our sponsor,
00:09:19.080 Hallow, helps you do that.
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00:09:21.580 Live it.
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00:09:30.920 Real prayer that draws you out of noise and into encounter.
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00:09:35.720 Yes, from food, but more often from what's poisoning your interior life.
00:09:39.140 Gossip, constant scrolling, cynicism, complaint.
00:09:42.060 Fasting is not punishment, it's clarity.
00:09:44.100 Freeze the heart and make space for grace.
00:09:46.060 Finally, give.
00:09:47.160 Real charity always costs something.
00:09:49.520 Offer patience when you'd rather be sharp.
00:09:50.980 Mercy where you've been hurt.
00:09:52.400 Love when it's undeserved.
00:09:53.720 Download Hallow today.
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00:09:57.220 Spend intentional time in prayer and meditate on God's love for you.
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00:10:05.400 Wow.
00:10:06.060 We got more, though, to show.
00:10:07.060 Okay, all right.
00:10:08.000 So, without further ado, I want to just talk about this all day.
00:10:11.100 Yeah.
00:10:12.340 Let's engage others here, specifically heretics, through woke TikToks.
00:10:19.600 MAGA vs. Jesus, round 16.
00:10:21.920 MAGA says real Christians support Trump.
00:10:24.460 But the Bible says those who say they love God but hate their neighbor are lying.
00:10:30.180 You cannot follow Jesus Christ while actively supporting politicians or policies that hurt your neighbor.
00:10:36.420 You know, like cutting their food aid or their health care.
00:10:39.520 Absolutely.
00:10:39.900 Wrong.
00:10:40.400 True.
00:10:41.180 MAGA says we must protect Christian power.
00:10:44.120 But the Bible says my power is made perfect in weakness.
00:10:50.040 Christianity isn't about accumulating power.
00:10:52.780 That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the religion.
00:10:55.180 Instead, what the gospel is about is creating peace through the presence of justice.
00:10:59.920 Besides, Christian power is really just about propping up people who are already wealthy and powerful, usually straight white men.
00:11:09.520 MAGA says destroy the people who oppose us.
00:11:13.640 But Jesus says love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
00:11:19.600 More than the error is the cringe that bothers me.
00:11:24.700 It's so powerfully lame.
00:11:27.780 But would you like to take any particular aspect of his argument?
00:11:31.160 First, I'm MAGA.
00:11:32.300 I've never said any of those things that he claims I've said.
00:11:34.800 Every premise is wrong.
00:11:36.660 Secondly, what we just saw was a 101 heretical example of doing what's called eisegesis.
00:11:45.960 Let me take a text out of context.
00:11:48.620 Let me put a gay-looking, woke perspective on it.
00:11:53.900 And let me do heresy.
00:11:55.180 Son, have you been reading heresy recently?
00:11:58.940 Unacceptable.
00:12:00.940 Jesus said, I've come to bring the sword.
00:12:03.100 He said that to follow him was to hate your mother, Luke 14.
00:12:06.460 You've got to hate, which is a Greek idiom of preference, your mother, your father, your brother, sister, meaning you've got to put me first.
00:12:11.900 And this is what I'm tired of.
00:12:13.260 I am tired of people that twist scripture.
00:12:17.300 There's a special place in hell for people that do that.
00:12:20.080 And then they pervert the gospel.
00:12:22.620 It is beyond the pale that anyone would actually listen to that.
00:12:26.780 But unfortunately, so many people listen to that kind of terrible preaching.
00:12:29.780 That person is committing spiritual adultery right now.
00:12:32.560 They are an apostate, and they are committing spiritual adultery.
00:12:36.400 They should have a big A on their...
00:12:37.460 Yeah, even the first one that came to mind, it was one of the first or second example,
00:12:41.360 where he's having this imaginary conversation with a MAGA person that doesn't really resemble a real MAGA person.
00:12:48.120 But then he says, well, you can't be a Christian when you're harming your neighbors.
00:12:53.580 And so the Republicans who want to cut food stamps, which they don't even actually want to do that.
00:12:58.180 No, exactly.
00:12:59.220 But let's just say, you know, you can make an argument to reform welfare programs.
00:13:03.380 But you say, okay, man, but your side is calling for the wholesale slaughter of babies in the world.
00:13:10.340 Yes.
00:13:10.840 Which is not only...
00:13:12.060 And to be euthanized, by the way.
00:13:13.900 And, yeah, that's right.
00:13:14.800 And to be euthanized.
00:13:15.880 Elderly people, sick people, even young people.
00:13:17.600 And, you know, not only can you point to much of Scripture that would argue against that,
00:13:24.340 but also we just know, because Christianity has a lot of archaeological evidence and documentary evidence,
00:13:30.900 we know that abortion has been explicitly prohibited by the Church since the apostolic age, at least.
00:13:36.900 The didache.
00:13:37.700 The didache, yeah.
00:13:38.580 Second century, if not earlier.
00:13:41.240 And, again, what is ridiculous about this is to use Scripture, this person's demonic,
00:13:45.600 to use Scripture to try to say that Christianity doesn't care about people.
00:13:52.340 Christianity invented hospitals.
00:13:54.140 Do you know if you and I were sick in the first century, we'd go to the Temple of the Asclepius, have to pay for healing.
00:13:58.840 Jesus healed people for free.
00:14:00.660 And guess what?
00:14:01.340 Modern health care comes out of the cut and thrust of the Christian movement.
00:14:04.500 In fact, the word hospital we get from the Knights Hospitaller.
00:14:08.480 I don't know if you know this.
00:14:09.700 I was just at WEF at the World Economic Forum speaking in Davos.
00:14:13.240 I don't know if you knew that.
00:14:13.760 Speaking of demons, do we have to brush any off you?
00:14:15.780 Yes, I know. Yes, you do.
00:14:16.040 In Jesus' name.
00:14:17.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:14:17.520 And I made it clear to all those individuals, the event horizon of free enterprise,
00:14:22.760 of forgiving debts, loving your neighbor, being generous, that event horizon comes from one moment.
00:14:29.680 And I said, it's not Marxism.
00:14:31.740 It's not socialism.
00:14:33.040 It's not wokeism.
00:14:33.980 You can see me say this.
00:14:35.300 It's the resurrection of Jesus Christ in this amazing syndicate called the Church.
00:14:38.920 I'm sure you had raucous applause at the World Economic Forum.
00:14:42.300 I had people staring at me cross-eyed.
00:14:44.420 Who is this?
00:14:45.260 We've never heard this before.
00:14:45.720 What have you to do with us?
00:14:46.940 Yes.
00:14:48.060 That's my response.
00:14:49.660 Okay, next one.
00:14:50.820 Christian nationalists walk around with a mouthful of scripture and a heartful of hate.
00:14:55.660 Oh, my goodness.
00:14:56.200 Jesus didn't tell us to love our churches.
00:15:08.460 He didn't tell us to love our doctrines and our creeds.
00:15:12.180 He didn't even tell us to love our scriptures.
00:15:14.540 He told us to love our neighbors.
00:15:17.100 And there was no exception to that commandment.
00:15:20.700 Love thy neighbor, regardless of race, class, gender, sexual orientation, or immigration status.
00:15:29.960 One of my favorite theologians, Barbara Brown Taylor, once wrote,
00:15:34.780 the only clear line I draw these days is this.
00:15:39.040 When my religion tries to come between me and my neighbor, I will choose my neighbor.
00:15:45.700 Jesus never commanded me to love my religion.
00:15:48.380 He literally did, but...
00:15:50.940 You know what's interesting?
00:15:53.040 Not once in the entire Bible does Jesus ask us to worship him.
00:15:58.040 Oh, my goodness.
00:15:58.640 All he asks is that we follow him.
00:16:01.520 Love like he loved.
00:16:03.240 Okay, just one before you go off.
00:16:05.860 He says, you know, Jesus told us to love our neighbors.
00:16:09.580 He doesn't tell us anything about loving our religion.
00:16:12.160 Religion, to quote our good friend St. Thomas Aquinas,
00:16:15.120 is a habit of virtue that inclines the will to give to God what he deserves.
00:16:20.100 That's right.
00:16:20.660 And before our Lord tells us to love our neighbor,
00:16:24.180 the more important commandment that he gives is actually to love God above all things.
00:16:29.680 Jesus replied,
00:16:31.160 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
00:16:36.160 The line he uses is a clever political line.
00:16:39.420 My opponents have a mouth full of scripture and a heart full of hate.
00:16:43.260 And yet, it's a good turn of phrase, but I think it applies much more to him than to his opponents.
00:16:50.100 This guy, I guess you would have to, you look at all the things he promotes using scripture so sacrilegiously.
00:16:55.840 He promotes slaughtering infants, mutilating little kids.
00:17:00.400 He refers to God as LGBT.
00:17:02.860 LGBT, awful sorts of sacrilegious and blasphemy.
00:17:05.980 And I guess the question I would have to say is,
00:17:08.700 when you hear what he says and stands for,
00:17:11.820 does James Tallarico sound more like Christ or the Antichrist?
00:17:15.920 The Antichrist.
00:17:16.820 It's not even close.
00:17:17.820 And I want at James, I would debate him any place, any time, any day of the week,
00:17:22.220 with two hands tied behind my back, blindfolded, because he twists scripture.
00:17:27.260 I want to say something to everyone watching.
00:17:29.240 This is a fact.
00:17:30.040 You can look this up with Open Doors, which is an international religious freedom network.
00:17:35.300 President Donald J. Trump is the most pro-religious freedom president of all time.
00:17:42.700 Out of any sitting president, nobody has been for more.
00:17:45.660 And that's not just Christianity.
00:17:46.980 That's religious freedom.
00:17:48.440 He spoke at the UN when no other sitting president would.
00:17:51.540 And my pastor, Jack Graham, sits on the Religious Freedom Commission there in Texas.
00:17:55.400 And I can tell you this, everything that that man just said is false.
00:17:58.540 That's kind of like the line of Joe Pesci in My Cousin B.
00:18:02.220 Everything that guy just said is BS.
00:18:04.880 I agree.
00:18:05.420 I agree.
00:18:06.220 Next one.
00:18:07.560 Are you an atheist?
00:18:10.260 For all practical purposes, yes.
00:18:13.080 Nobody can actually say for certain that anything doesn't exist.
00:18:16.800 But I'm an atheist in the same way as I'm an a-leprechaunist and an a-fairiest and an a-pig unicornist.
00:18:23.860 So you're not 100% sure God doesn't exist, but you're sure enough to make it practically...
00:18:28.700 I'm as sure as you are sure that fairies and leprechauns don't exist.
00:18:33.180 And do you see an equivalence between the idea of God and the idea of a fairy and a leprechaun?
00:18:37.440 The evidence for both is equally poor.
00:18:40.120 Oh my gosh.
00:18:41.480 This was, 20 years ago, this was what passed in the, not among intellectuals, but among kind of polite, yuppie society.
00:18:51.800 This was what the smart people believed.
00:18:53.500 Right.
00:18:53.820 And I'll tell you, it got me.
00:18:54.700 When I was a teenager, this kind of stuff really got me.
00:18:56.560 Sure.
00:18:56.660 It took me away from the church, helped take me away from the church for 10 years.
00:18:59.360 Is there a flaw in his argument?
00:19:02.820 That was at the height of what was called New Atheism, the four-horsemen of the New Atheist Movement.
00:19:07.900 Everything he said is a flaw.
00:19:09.960 The evidence that we have for God is unimpeachable.
00:19:12.640 The evidence that we have for the resurrection of Jesus Christ, as we've already said, is unimpeachable.
00:19:18.360 It is a historical fact that Jesus rose from the grave on April 5th, AD 33.
00:19:23.720 We know that date with certainty.
00:19:26.000 The resurrection and the crucifixion are the best established fact of the ancient world.
00:19:30.120 So for him to compare God and the evidence for God with the tooth fairy or leprechauns.
00:19:35.580 The thing that drives me crazy, because Richard Dawkins is supposed to be intelligent and is, I guess, educated in his field of study.
00:19:43.280 Which is not biblical studies.
00:19:45.580 No, no.
00:19:46.100 It's evolutionary biology topic for another time.
00:19:49.040 But it just, that statement, well, I don't believe in God because you don't believe in leprechauns.
00:19:54.660 Oh, you know, which is Reddit-tier, fedora-tipping atheism.
00:20:00.000 I remember Alvin Plantinga, the Calvinist philosopher, he was asked what he thought of the New Atheists.
00:20:05.340 He said, I think they're far inferior to the old atheists, like Bertrand Russell.
00:20:10.380 At least Bertrand Russell was somewhat logical.
00:20:12.520 And Bertrand Russell said he couldn't find a flaw in the ontological argument for God.
00:20:16.100 What Dawkins seems blithely unaware of is that, one, this question of the supposed tension between faith and reason is one that has been taken up over the centuries.
00:20:28.120 And that the arguments for God's existence generally rest on natural reason.
00:20:34.440 So much so that the Catholic Church declares in the first Vatican Council that the existence of God, not necessarily the resurrection, the person of Christ, the Trinity, the mysteries,
00:20:46.300 but the mere existence of God can be known with certainty strictly from human reason in light of the created world.
00:20:53.880 You know, St. Thomas Aquinas famously has his five ways, his most famous and his favorite one rests on empirical evidence, observing change and motion in the world.
00:21:04.960 But there are many, many other arguments.
00:21:06.480 And you just think...
00:21:06.960 Teleological argument, design.
00:21:08.660 Yes, the ontological argument.
00:21:10.240 All of it.
00:21:11.140 Cosmology, purpose, meaning.
00:21:13.680 And I want to say something.
00:21:14.720 My heart does go out to Richard.
00:21:16.020 I have a book called Unimaginable, What the World Would Be Like Without Christianity.
00:21:18.700 In part two, I studied these atheists.
00:21:22.660 And without getting into terrible detail, he had some serious childhood trauma.
00:21:27.840 Serious.
00:21:28.480 And when you look at the new atheists, most of them have broken relationships with their dads.
00:21:33.320 Well, you know, Hitchens was public about this.
00:21:35.860 Right.
00:21:36.220 I mean, his mother called him.
00:21:38.500 He missed the call, and then she stuck her head in an oven.
00:21:40.740 Exactly.
00:21:40.940 So, you know, I...
00:21:41.620 Yeah, you're right.
00:21:42.200 There's trauma, and they...
00:21:43.500 Same with Bart Ehrman.
00:21:44.460 A problem of...
00:21:45.900 An experience of evil, suffering, and pain.
00:21:47.680 And so, I don't want you to think that he doesn't believe in God for an intellectual reason.
00:21:51.180 It's an emotional reason.
00:21:52.600 Well, that's a good point.
00:21:53.900 Just crazy to say, you know, well, you know, I just didn't know proof of it.
00:21:57.680 You're not even...
00:21:58.640 You're putting yourself out there as the great debunker of Christianity.
00:22:02.060 You're not engaging with the most basic arguments of the question that is supposedly at hand.
00:22:07.080 Okay, next one.
00:22:07.580 When there are signs of physical maturity, it becomes permissible for the husband in Islamic law
00:22:14.000 to have marital relationships or consummate the relation with his bride.
00:22:19.000 And this is the example of the prophet, peace be upon him.
00:22:21.440 Do you know what precocious puberty is?
00:22:23.160 Starting puberty unusually early.
00:22:25.420 Is there anything in Islam that prevents you from a man marrying a five-year-old that started precocious puberty?
00:22:31.300 You can arrange a marriage even as an infant, but that doesn't mean that sex is allowed.
00:22:35.780 Could a man have a marriage to a five-year-old consummate it if she started precocious puberty?
00:22:40.780 If she starts showing signs of physical maturity, then yes, that's permissible.
00:22:45.540 How about age four?
00:22:47.280 If there are signs of...
00:22:48.780 Three.
00:22:49.460 So this is something that becomes biologically impossible because precocious puberty...
00:22:52.780 I have a study that shows it goes as early as 11 months.
00:22:55.340 Well, that's something that the parents would not...
00:22:58.620 See, the thing about Islamic marriage is that parents are involved at these ages.
00:23:02.960 Yikes.
00:23:04.100 I've read the Quran, so you don't have to, by the way.
00:23:07.040 Everything he just said is endorsed by the Islamic trilogy, which of course is the Quran, Sirah, Sunnah, Hadith.
00:23:13.820 And there are four specific ayahs that actually endorse what he just said in the Quran.
00:23:21.300 So I want to make sure that people understand this is not an aberrant form of Islam.
00:23:26.520 If they actually read the Quran, they would see that sex slavery is not a bad thing.
00:23:33.160 It's funny because I remember I read the Quran at 14.
00:23:37.060 I don't think I made it all the way through, but I read a lot of it at 14 because everyone at the time, this was 2004, was saying that Islam is a religion of peace.
00:23:44.600 And I said, you know...
00:23:45.140 It means submission.
00:23:46.300 Yeah.
00:23:46.720 And I'm just looking around the world.
00:23:48.040 I said, I don't really buy that.
00:23:49.680 Right.
00:23:49.860 So let me read it, and I was disabused of that popular misconception, but I read it, and then I read a little bit about the origins of Islam.
00:23:58.980 And what's interesting about it is it clearly begins as a Christian heresy.
00:24:03.520 It seems to be heavily associated with various ancient heresies, including Nestorianism.
00:24:09.400 Yes.
00:24:09.660 And you have this thought, especially reading my main man, Dante.
00:24:15.060 Dante curiously puts Muhammad with the schismatics.
00:24:20.140 Yes.
00:24:20.940 That makes sense.
00:24:21.440 As if Islam is just a schism from a break-off of Christianity, which I kind of think it is.
00:24:25.780 And you think, what if, instead of encountering heretical monks or encountering heretical versions of Christianity around the Arabian world,
00:24:32.720 what if Muhammad had been exposed to an Orthodox guy, a guy who really believed the real religion?
00:24:39.840 He could have been.
00:24:41.660 It's, you know, all hypothetical.
00:24:43.680 But he could...
00:24:44.500 You could have a world in which Muhammad was a great figure of Christianity.
00:24:48.100 That's right.
00:24:48.840 Where Arabia was Christian, where Islam didn't exist.
00:24:52.640 And it could have happened, you know, woulda, coulda, shoulda.
00:24:55.400 Right.
00:24:55.620 But it is amazing.
00:24:57.820 Sometimes people, to tie it all back around to these ideas, they'll say, you know, it's so crazy in the Middle Ages or antiquity.
00:25:04.840 The church was so harsh on the heretics.
00:25:06.840 You know, you read Thomas Aquinas on the heretics.
00:25:08.880 Yeah.
00:25:09.000 It's pretty tough.
00:25:10.120 Well, so was Jude.
00:25:11.140 He had 36 descriptors for him in the book of Jude.
00:25:14.640 Great point.
00:25:16.160 Why?
00:25:16.840 It's just, you know, in our free speech kind of era, we say, what's the thing, you know, what's so bad about these bad ideas flowing around?
00:25:22.600 Well, the fruit of a bad idea is that.
00:25:27.080 Bad ideas have body counts.
00:25:29.000 They have body counts.
00:25:29.540 Wow.
00:25:30.360 And Islam, I would encourage people to check out my debate with Ineat Bangawalu, who is publicly supportive of Osama bin Laden after 9-11 and Adnan Rashid, a Hadith scholar.
00:25:39.900 And I just mopped the floor with them because all I did was keep quoting the Koran back to them.
00:25:44.540 What they're saying, the kefir, you and I are the kefir.
00:25:47.760 We're the infidel.
00:25:49.660 And you can do anything you want to the infidel.
00:25:51.960 And if you go inside the Dome of the Rock, you will see incised on the ceiling of the Dome of the Rock, they believe that Islam is the culmination of Judaism and Christianity.
00:26:01.720 Right, right.
00:26:02.680 Period.
00:26:03.480 Yeah.
00:26:04.020 And it's curious, too, because the Jews are famous for, infamous for denying the resurrection.
00:26:09.900 Everybody knows that.
00:26:10.820 But the Muslims deny the crucifixion.
00:26:14.440 Surah 4, Ayah 157.
00:26:16.260 They crucified him not.
00:26:17.420 They crucified him not.
00:26:18.620 And then I think of, I think it's Philippians 3.18.
00:26:22.520 I might be getting it.
00:26:23.400 I'm Catholic, so we don't do chapter and verse that way.
00:26:25.320 That's okay.
00:26:25.580 But I think it's somewhere around there where St. Paul writes.
00:26:29.920 He says, there are many who are walking now, and I tell you, even weeping, who deny the cross of Christ.
00:26:35.580 That's right.
00:26:36.060 It's very interesting.
00:26:37.360 Yes.
00:26:37.980 Yeah, denying the resurrection is one thing, bad in itself.
00:26:42.640 But to deny the crucifixion, an error in some ways worse because it's on the cross in which Christ conquers death.
00:26:50.280 And it flies in the face of all the evidence.
00:26:52.620 I mean, I know atheists who will tell you the best established fact of the ancient world is Jesus' death by Roman crucifixion.
00:27:00.380 Nissan 14, AD 33.
00:27:02.380 I'm going to say it until I'm blue in the face.
00:27:03.980 It's April 3rd, which incidentally this year on Good Friday is April 3rd, the very day that he was crucified in AD 33.
00:27:10.540 That's ominous.
00:27:11.680 There are a lot of other signs out there.
00:27:13.180 I'm sort of waiting for the trumpets.
00:27:15.220 Yes, okay.
00:27:15.960 But I want people to know this is not an aberrant.
00:27:18.140 This is a text-based religion.
00:27:21.240 Islam is the greatest threat to Christianity around the world, and they have grand designs, and they have the money to pay for it.
00:27:28.020 That's not good.
00:27:28.660 Plus se change, plus se la même chose.
00:27:30.420 This has been going on for about 1,400 years.
00:27:32.360 Next one.
00:27:32.940 If you are Protestant, atheist, Muslim, or any religion that is not Roman Catholicism, you will not go to heaven.
00:27:39.140 Oh, okay.
00:27:39.800 According to who?
00:27:41.040 I must have missed that part of the Bible.
00:27:42.660 In 1302, Pope Boniface VIII.
00:27:44.980 Ah, the Pope.
00:27:45.960 Okay, so your Pope that you claim is infelible.
00:27:48.820 Boniface is a controversial one.
00:27:50.780 Is the only way to salvation.
00:27:51.920 Okay.
00:27:52.260 The same exact message is then reaffirmed by Pope Eugene IV.
00:27:55.120 Oh, it's reaffirmed by another Pope.
00:27:56.620 Okay.
00:27:57.020 Oh, must be true.
00:27:58.080 There is a tiny theological loophole that might change that.
00:28:01.380 Oh, cool.
00:28:01.780 There's a loophole.
00:28:02.500 Is it also in the Bible?
00:28:03.280 According to Catechism 847 and Lumen Gentium 16.
00:28:09.200 Wait, real quick.
00:28:10.000 Noah, why should we believe you and the Catholic Church?
00:28:12.320 We have 2,000 years of church history to back up our theology.
00:28:16.240 Ah, so you say 2,000 years validates y'all's view, but the Roman Catholic Church today isn't the same church as before.
00:28:22.420 And didn't Paul have to write letters to the early church because they were getting corrupted?
00:28:26.360 Y'all submit to Jesus Christ.
00:28:27.840 Amen.
00:28:28.040 Okay, well, we might have to, I actually don't know that we actually have different views on this.
00:28:33.920 The claims that the debunker is making are, he's getting at stuff, which is that the early church, they all disagreed.
00:28:41.460 Right.
00:28:41.600 And Paul had to write and correct them.
00:28:43.760 And actually what I love about the apparent dispute between Paul and Peter in Acts,
00:28:49.820 what I love about it is Paul is much more of a theologian than Peter.
00:28:54.440 Right.
00:28:54.640 Paul is, in many ways, he's like more the active player than Peter is.
00:29:01.400 And yet, he brings these questions to Peter because, you know, the role of the Pope is misunderstood.
00:29:06.680 The Pope is not some wizard.
00:29:08.060 No.
00:29:08.220 The Pope is not necessarily, we've had good theologians.
00:29:10.640 Absolutely.
00:29:11.640 Ratzinger, Pope Benedict.
00:29:12.840 Yeah, University of Regensburg.
00:29:14.360 Yes, we've had very good theologians, but not always.
00:29:18.380 Sometimes the Pope is just a guy.
00:29:20.500 Mm-hmm.
00:29:21.520 Who's a White Sox fan.
00:29:22.800 Who's a White Sox fan, yes.
00:29:24.100 But sometimes the Pope is, you know, a guy who has to keep things together.
00:29:27.720 There's a famous phrase attributed to Augustine, which derives from his teaching, though he
00:29:30.780 didn't literally say this, which is, Rome has spoken, the matter is settled.
00:29:35.020 But one of the calls of the church is that the church be unified.
00:29:38.660 You know, it's just why we have ecumenical councils and all that.
00:29:40.640 So there is a teaching which is extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
00:29:44.000 Outside of the church is no salvation.
00:29:46.420 Which, in principle, I think every Christian would agree with, because the church is the
00:29:50.340 mystical body of Christ.
00:29:51.260 Right.
00:29:51.540 And some would, some kind of disagree over the nature of the body.
00:29:55.020 And to the point of the Catholic in the first video, he says, well, because of the Second
00:30:00.160 Vatican Council, there is an understanding that the, you know, basically not all of the
00:30:07.140 Protestants are necessarily damned to hell, or the Eastern Orthodox, you know, that's
00:30:11.260 because of goodwill, because of all sorts of reasons.
00:30:16.280 So the debunker's problem is the one that gives me issue here, because he's blithely
00:30:24.300 writing off 2,000 years of church history.
00:30:27.160 Absolutely.
00:30:27.460 And a visible church.
00:30:29.100 I mean, hello.
00:30:30.460 Yeah.
00:30:31.680 In favor of a kind of pure private judgment of scripture that I think is Protestantism gone
00:30:38.360 much too far.
00:30:39.100 Absolutely.
00:30:39.700 Without a doubt.
00:30:40.380 And it's where many people are, especially in the online church age.
00:30:43.700 They're too godly to be part of a church.
00:30:45.640 Remember, no perfect church exists.
00:30:47.520 And I want to remind people, Acts 11 and Acts 15, two Jerusalem councils were held as early
00:30:52.940 as the book of Acts, and brother James of Jesus hosted them.
00:30:56.580 There were disagreements, healthy disagreements.
00:30:59.560 What is the gospel?
00:31:00.700 Oh, we need to take care of the widows and the poor.
00:31:02.800 That's a big thing.
00:31:03.680 We need to flee sexual immorality.
00:31:05.800 So these kind of healthy debates are great.
00:31:08.420 But Michael, the reason I love you and your show is you actually get beyond the soundbites
00:31:13.320 and you get into substance.
00:31:14.600 We cannot be educated by that.
00:31:17.300 We cannot be educated by a soundbite.
00:31:20.160 We believe in the unified church.
00:31:22.180 And the gospel says in Romans 10, 9, my nine-year-old triplets just memorized this.
00:31:26.140 If you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead and you proclaim that Jesus
00:31:31.300 is Lord, you will be saved.
00:31:33.740 So that's if you're a Catholic, if you're an Eastern Orthodox, if you are a Protestant,
00:31:37.740 if you are an atheist right now.
00:31:39.180 Hold on.
00:31:39.380 You want to let the Eastern Orthodox?
00:31:40.580 Yes, absolutely.
00:31:41.760 Romans 10, 9.
00:31:43.320 Romans 10, 9.
00:31:44.240 I believe there are believers in all of the, I believe in the unified church and the power
00:31:48.600 of the gospel.
00:31:49.520 There's a very interesting conversation to be had on the sacramental aspect of it.
00:31:53.120 And you, being a Protestant, have maybe more than any Protestant friend of mine, and I
00:31:59.920 have many of them who yell at me all the time, but you have a keen appreciation of the
00:32:05.540 sacramental, of the physical.
00:32:07.080 Yes, because it's an act of worship and it brings you close to Jesus and you understand
00:32:12.160 it in its context.
00:32:13.400 Yeah.
00:32:13.900 Okay.
00:32:14.480 That's all right.
00:32:15.200 Let's see if those TikTokers want to react to our reaction, to the guy's reaction,
00:32:20.300 to the first reaction.
00:32:21.040 Excellent.
00:32:21.760 What is the difference between Orthodox and Catholicism?
00:32:24.820 So, theologically, there are a number of differences, but I'll tell you why we claim
00:32:28.200 to be the original church.
00:32:29.540 We were one church until the year 1054, where the Great Schism took place.
00:32:33.440 And of course, for a couple hundred years before that, things had started to split up
00:32:36.720 a little bit.
00:32:37.400 The Roman Catholic Church historically can claim to be part of that original church, but theologically,
00:32:42.840 they changed.
00:32:43.540 In the Roman Catholic Church, they've changed and added one thing, the infallibility of the
00:32:48.380 Pope, we don't believe that the Pope is infallible.
00:32:50.620 We believe that when Christ spoke to Peter and said, I give you the keys to the kingdom
00:32:54.200 of heaven, he was actually talking to all the disciples who are his successors.
00:32:57.760 And we, the clergy of the Orthodox Church, are the successors of the apostles through
00:33:01.260 ordination.
00:33:02.040 You might think ordination wasn't in the Bible, but it was.
00:33:04.440 It's called in Greek, keretonia, which means the laying on of hands, and that's how
00:33:07.620 you see it.
00:33:08.040 Okay, I thought he was hitting filioquo.
00:33:09.940 Yeah, yeah.
00:33:10.640 But he didn't.
00:33:11.080 Proceeding from the Father and the Son.
00:33:12.660 Okay, can I take this one for a second, Michael?
00:33:14.540 So, Eastern Orthodoxy, and again, there are two things I appreciate about Eastern Orthodox,
00:33:19.440 and there are seven reasons I'm not an Eastern Orthodox.
00:33:21.800 I actually just gave a talk on this on YouTube.
00:33:23.980 I love their churches.
00:33:25.140 They're cruciform.
00:33:26.040 They're worshipful.
00:33:26.800 And I love the fact that one-third of our 5,800 Greek New Testament fragments are protected
00:33:33.740 right now by the Greek Orthodox Church in many persecuted lands.
00:33:37.840 Mount Athos alone has over 1,000 Greek manuscripts.
00:33:42.400 And so, let me say that for any Eastern Orthodox, Greek Orthodox who's watching, I appreciate that.
00:33:47.960 Here comes the but.
00:33:48.840 But.
00:33:49.340 Here's the but.
00:33:50.000 There's actually seven reasons I'm not a Greek Orthodox, but the main one is they don't
00:33:54.840 have any theology.
00:33:56.060 They don't agree with each other.
00:33:58.480 It all goes back to what their local bishop.
00:34:01.260 And do you know that the Eastern Orthodox Church, Michael, has become one of the greatest
00:34:05.380 persecutors of Christians in the world?
00:34:07.900 Are you aware of this?
00:34:08.740 I'm not.
00:34:09.420 Because it becomes a state religion.
00:34:11.600 Yeah.
00:34:12.060 So, you go to places like we have ministries where we go to Romania, and we go to other
00:34:16.160 places where they believe you don't even have to have an act of faith to be an Eastern
00:34:20.300 Orthodox.
00:34:20.900 I could baptize you Eastern Orthodox if we live in Romania.
00:34:24.020 You never have to express faith in Jesus of any kind, and you're Greek Orthodox and you're
00:34:28.900 good.
00:34:29.360 So then we're going to persecute anyone who tries to give you the gospel, even imprison
00:34:33.280 you for trying to lead you to a personal relationship.
00:34:36.520 That is factual.
00:34:37.620 So, they've gone from being persecuted themselves, you look at the Bolshevik Revolution, you look
00:34:43.300 at all of it, and now they're one of the greatest persecutors of non-Eastern Orthodox Christians.
00:34:48.880 Interesting.
00:34:49.380 And that's one of the biggest reasons I'm not an Eastern Orthodox.
00:34:52.000 Yeah, it's funny because...
00:34:54.120 Beyond the fact they have no theology that's unified.
00:34:56.420 Yeah, this is one of the issues.
00:34:58.040 I got in trouble recently.
00:35:00.040 You did?
00:35:00.560 I did.
00:35:00.980 No, occasionally I did.
00:35:02.580 And I got in trouble because I made this claim.
00:35:05.660 I said, you know, the Eastern Orthodox, they flirted with every heresy.
00:35:10.000 And I did, but it was actually misinterpreted because as much as I would like to be chauvinistic
00:35:15.640 in my religious views and kind of mock the Eastern Orthodox, I really have a great deal
00:35:21.880 of respect for the Eastern Orthodox.
00:35:23.340 I love the liturgy is great.
00:35:25.340 I love the icons.
00:35:26.500 I have many Eastern icons.
00:35:26.760 I don't love, they don't have chairs in their churches.
00:35:29.000 Yeah, no, I actually like that.
00:35:30.560 Oh, you do?
00:35:31.000 You know why I like it?
00:35:31.460 I like it because, look, I don't want it to be too Islamic or anything.
00:35:34.680 But I like the idea that one is sort of kneeling or standing or, you know, I actually,
00:35:39.360 I think pews are too modern, okay?
00:35:41.340 But all of that.
00:35:42.620 There we disagree.
00:35:43.680 Yeah.
00:35:44.240 I know.
00:35:44.860 I mean, I'll sit.
00:35:46.360 Like, I'm not above sitting.
00:35:47.580 Jesus sat when he taught the Bible, just so you know.
00:35:50.300 We could have a nice lounge.
00:35:51.260 Yeah, he sat.
00:35:52.360 Every time he taught, he sat.
00:35:53.740 Yeah, okay.
00:35:54.320 Well, look, that gives me a justification.
00:35:56.100 Yeah, Rabbi Jesus.
00:35:57.080 Don't forget that.
00:35:57.800 But I, the East, maybe just it was a geographical fact.
00:36:04.500 A lot of heresies came in there.
00:36:06.600 Sometimes there'd be ecumenical councils.
00:36:07.980 The Eastern bishops, they would.
00:36:09.920 Yeah, they had seven, to be clear.
00:36:11.260 Seven ecumenical councils.
00:36:12.700 Yes.
00:36:13.280 Yeah.
00:36:13.680 And so they would, they'd go in, they'd go back home, they'd disagree with the councils.
00:36:18.260 There were all these issues.
00:36:19.480 Then it became fused with the state.
00:36:21.480 So you had a kind of Cesaro papism.
00:36:23.540 Totally.
00:36:23.820 Very interesting, speaking of that previous video, one of the great battles in the Middle
00:36:29.220 Ages was between Dante and Boniface VIII.
00:36:32.100 Yes.
00:36:32.500 Who, Boniface VIII was claiming a lot of temporal power.
00:36:35.680 Dante said, no, there's actually a distinction between the temporal and the spiritual power.
00:36:39.500 The temporal power should be illuminated by the spiritual power.
00:36:42.040 He writes this in Monarchia, but they're distinct.
00:36:45.760 Monarchia, which was then put on the Index of Prohibited Books, but then taken off the
00:36:49.020 index by, I think it was Leo XIII, who was an inspiration for Leo XIV, the current Pope.
00:36:54.380 All sorts of interesting reasons as to why that happened.
00:36:58.160 But because of that, I do think the East has been subjected to a lot of bad political
00:37:04.200 pressures, including Islam.
00:37:05.340 Absolutely.
00:37:05.640 We didn't even mention Islam.
00:37:06.920 100%.
00:37:07.360 And so it's a labored...
00:37:10.000 Look what happens at St. Catherine's right now.
00:37:12.940 Yes.
00:37:13.540 Yes.
00:37:13.980 So...
00:37:14.380 And I love the Eastern Orthodox guy.
00:37:16.140 He says, look, when Jesus is talking to Peter and he says, here are the keys to the
00:37:20.200 kingdom of heaven, I read that as he's talking to all the apostles.
00:37:23.780 It was kind of funny, because the way he himself phrased it was, when he's talking to Peter,
00:37:27.980 he's saying, all right, well, he's talking to Peter.
00:37:29.120 Maybe he's talking to Peter.
00:37:30.000 And the Eastern Orthodox can point out all of the problems and difficulties and struggles
00:37:36.060 that have happened in the Catholic Church.
00:37:38.720 Very few people are more sensitive to that than I am.
00:37:41.360 I know.
00:37:41.940 Trust me.
00:37:42.440 I could give you a hundred more.
00:37:44.220 But this is something we see in the ancient world, is that our Lord wants unity, I think,
00:37:49.600 among the churches.
00:37:50.460 Absolutely.
00:37:50.760 This is not to diminish the role and the responsibility of the other bishops.
00:37:55.720 But, yeah, if your point is, it's hard and slow going and problematic to have a unified
00:38:03.040 church, and these guys in Rome, they mess things up sometimes, and they...
00:38:07.760 Gee, you don't say.
00:38:08.860 Tell me something I don't know.
00:38:10.100 Nevertheless, we want...
00:38:11.300 You know, when we recite the creed, even without the filioque clause, which should be in the
00:38:18.560 creed, and anyway, we say at the end, what do we say we say?
00:38:22.100 We live in Pericorius.
00:38:23.520 Yes.
00:38:24.080 We say we believe in one holy, Catholic, and apostolic church.
00:38:27.660 Absolutely.
00:38:28.020 And we'll get the Eastern back at some point.
00:38:31.580 Yes.
00:38:31.800 Well, at some point.
00:38:32.580 Okay, next one.
00:38:33.900 Realistically, we have no way of actually knowing who this belonged to.
00:38:38.760 It could be from any random guy.
00:38:38.900 Oh my gosh.
00:38:39.580 I hope I can do this one.
00:38:40.720 It's not like we have a sample of Jesus' DNA to compare it with, but what we do find
00:38:46.740 from a close examination of the blood is that it's not blood.
00:38:51.540 It's just dye made from red ocher and vermilion.
00:38:56.000 Blood stain pattern analysis shows that the stains don't make any sense and are unrealistic
00:39:01.320 for a crucifixion.
00:39:02.520 The shroud's fabric was made from a herringbone weave, one far more complex than any type of
00:39:08.800 fabric we see used in burials during the first century.
00:39:11.880 Radiocarbon dating methods from three independent sources place the actual age of the shroud
00:39:17.740 between 1260 and 1390, the same time when it first went on display at a French church.
00:39:25.960 Based on these facts, we can be supremely confident that the Shroud of Turin is a fraud.
00:39:32.580 But even if it were real, it wouldn't prove anything.
00:39:36.960 Okay, well, did he convince you?
00:39:38.520 Were you wrong?
00:39:39.140 This is a hold my diet Coke moment, if you don't mind.
00:39:42.580 Okay, the blood samples were done by two Jewish hematologists, Heller and Adler.
00:39:49.340 It's type A-B blood.
00:39:52.420 It's human blood.
00:39:53.680 It's type A-B blood.
00:39:54.960 And we can even distinguish the post-mortem blood from its separation from the serum where
00:39:59.940 Jesus is pierced through the rib five and six.
00:40:03.440 So again, Barry Schwartz, who is the documenting photographer of the Shroud of Turin, who was
00:40:08.480 a Jew, for 17 years, even after he took the photograph, do you know what caused him to
00:40:14.060 go from being skeptical?
00:40:15.360 Even though he was the documenting photographer, it was the blood.
00:40:19.480 He said the blood put it beyond no doubt.
00:40:22.240 6% of the world's population is type A-B blood.
00:40:25.080 Okay, period.
00:40:26.080 Because so much has happened since we talked about the Shroud last time.
00:40:29.120 I told you that the British Museum suppressed the raw data of the carbon dating of the Shroud
00:40:36.080 for 27 years.
00:40:37.680 And Tristan, my buddy, just did a book on it.
00:40:40.040 Thirdly, I just met with Bruno Barberis.
00:40:41.820 And by the way, the irony of his last name is not lost on me.
00:40:45.060 I write about that in the Jesus Discoveries.
00:40:47.620 He took all of the factors, and I actually have a picture of it in my book that is so
00:40:51.200 fun because actually his factor, Bruno Barberis is a mathematician at the University of Turin.
00:40:57.700 And he put a mathematical equation to all of the aspects of the Shroud, the crucified man
00:41:04.880 and how they match up with what scripture says about how Jesus was crucified.
00:41:10.240 He said there is a 1 in 200 billion chance it's anyone other than Jesus from the Bible.
00:41:15.780 Having said all that, it's not a forgery.
00:41:17.700 I want you to hold something cool.
00:41:18.700 I didn't have this last time.
00:41:19.700 All right.
00:41:20.700 You are looking right here at a Roman solidus.
00:41:24.180 That is from Justinian II, late 7th century.
00:41:27.620 And what is the first thing that you think of when you see the face on that coin?
00:41:31.620 It looks like Jesus.
00:41:32.680 The face of the Shroud.
00:41:33.960 This is the first coin that ever had the face of Christ on it.
00:41:37.300 So it was a very bold move.
00:41:38.700 What year is this from?
00:41:39.700 This is from the late 600s, 7th century.
00:41:41.580 Wow.
00:41:42.580 So by the way, 700 years before the supposed carbon dating, what's the source material
00:41:47.580 if the Shroud didn't exist?
00:41:48.740 Crazy.
00:41:49.740 Remember sketch artists in a criminal defense, you know, they would sketch a criminal.
00:41:55.060 This is like four times what's accepted in a court of law to match the Shroud of Turin.
00:42:01.040 And I want to say something else that is so important.
00:42:04.200 Waxous dating, wide angle x-ray scattering has shown that the Shroud is in fact 2,000 years old.
00:42:09.340 There's actually five different ways that we date the Shroud that I write about in my book.
00:42:13.220 The Shroud is the greatest gospel evangelism tool I've ever seen, Michael.
00:42:17.220 This is, you know, it takes a lot to really impress me.
00:42:21.100 Let's go.
00:42:22.100 This is cool.
00:42:23.100 Well, I had to elevate my game from last time.
00:42:25.100 Yeah, you did a good job last time too.
00:42:27.100 Wow.
00:42:28.100 All right.
00:42:29.100 What are you going to do next time you come?
00:42:30.100 Dude.
00:42:31.100 What are you going to bring?
00:42:32.100 I'm just getting started.
00:42:33.100 Are you going to have to bring the Dead Sea Scrolls?
00:42:34.100 Yeah.
00:42:35.100 I have them.
00:42:36.100 I can do that.
00:42:37.100 I can do that.
00:42:38.100 I can bring the Great Isaiah Scroll.
00:42:39.100 It's all in here.
00:42:40.100 The book is Jesus Discoveries.
00:42:42.100 Go get it.
00:42:43.100 Get it right now.
00:42:44.100 Let's go.
00:42:45.100 Jeremiah Johnston.
00:42:46.100 Good to see you.
00:42:47.100 You're a scholar and a gentleman.
00:42:49.100 That was fabulous.
00:42:53.100 Is that all right?
00:42:54.100 Okay.
00:42:55.100 I mean, how long?
00:42:56.100 I mean, how is it?
00:42:57.100 This Augustus one.
00:42:58.100 Insane.
00:42:59.100 Well, no.
00:43:00.100 Augustus is right here.
00:43:01.100 Yeah.