Who Won？ Andrew Tate Vs Piers Morgan ｜ Michael RATES Viral Debate
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Summary
Andrew Tate's interview with Piers Morgan has gone viral, with millions of people tuning in to see if they agree with him or disagree with his take on the controversial question, Is my sister a property of my husband?
Transcript
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Andrew Tate might be the most talked about man in the world. Why? I'm not totally sure. He's
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made a name for himself giving advice to anyone and everyone who will listen. Now, Andrew Tate
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has sat down for an interview with Piers Morgan. It has gone completely viral, millions and millions
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of views. I have not seen it yet, but I'm going to watch and see if I can be a guru to the guru,
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if I can give any sort of advice to Andrew Tate on how this interview could have gone better.
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I think my sister is her husband's property, yes. When a bride is walking down the aisle to marry
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the groom, the father walks next to her and gives her away. True or false?
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Absolutely. But I've been married twice, as it turns out. And on both occasions,
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I didn't believe the woman was being handed to me as chattel. Regardless of what Andrew Tate is about
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to say or even what was ever was in the clip, I do think he made a slight mistake there coming out
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of that clip. He immediately got defensive. Before, Piers Morgan ever asked him a question.
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Of course, of course. What do you think? Where that would seem to imply that something he said
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was demanding of a defense. When if he really believes what was said in the clip, he would just
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sit there quietly and sort of confidently and wait for the question to be asked. So already,
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I could see how this interview started to go wrong. He's already, he started out from a position of
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defending and trying to explain a little. And if you're in that defensive position, you're already
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losing. So would you rephrase what you said there? Now what, that's an interesting point about phrasing.
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The way I would say things before I was famous, I have to take personal responsibility and accept
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that if I make a video that 500 people see and 1% of them misunderstand it, that's not a problem.
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If I make a video that 5 million people see and 1% of them understand it.
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So specifically on that point, I think my sister is a husband's property.
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She took his last name. She married him. She wanted to join his family. She has said it herself.
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Right. So this is just not a good argument. If he's saying man has a leadership role in the
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household or even, you know, man is the head of woman as Christ is the head of the church or
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something like that, that would be one thing. But to say that therefore, because she takes his name,
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she's his property, that doesn't make sense. This leftist Tears Tumblr is my property.
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It's not, you know, the leftist Tears Tumblr Knowles. It's just a complete non-sequitur.
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I think the argument he's making is a wrong one to begin with, which is why Piers Morgan is attacking
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him. But he's not doing a very good job defending it.
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Listen, my friend, if we want to argue about this, we need to go back to the Bible, to the
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Quran. You need to argue with religious people.
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No, no. I'm not talking about anything in the Bible or Quran.
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I think that if a woman marries a man and she decides to take his last name, that they have
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different roles and responsibilities within that marriage. And I believe that.
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She is handed, I believe the father, the father hands her.
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Right, but don't be a politician because I think you're a straight talker, right?
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I think my sister is her husband's property. Do you regret saying it like that?
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I understand that with my newfound fame, perhaps it could be phrased differently.
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However, I still believe that a woman is given to the man in marriage.
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Take a pause. He's in a tough position because it's just a false statement.
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It just isn't true. I'm pretty trad. I totally love gender roles. And I believe in marriage as
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marriage is traditionally understood. And I'm on board with all of that. But it just is not the
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case that the wife is the property of the husband to be considered like all of the husband's
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other property. That is not a Christian understanding of marriage. That is not the
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traditional understanding of marriage within our own culture. So it's an indefensible position.
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I don't know if Tate believes it or not. He keeps saying, well, I would have, you know,
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maybe, you know, I offended some people or they misunderstood it or whatever. But it's just,
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it's just a losing point. Either he could change his opinion or he could just move on. But there's
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no way that he's going to win by doubling down on something that just isn't, isn't true.
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Property is the word that other people use when they ask me the question.
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But you're using it when you answer the question. That's what marriage actually means.
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He's showing you here why he is losing to peers in this moment. When he's trying to explain what
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happened in these previous interviews, he goes, yeah, but property, that's not my word. That's
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the word that was used in the questions. Right. And it's your responsibility when you're conveying your
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arguments to not just take the bait and all the kind of leading silly premises of the questions that
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you're asked. You might be asked some dumb question. Hey, Andrew Tate, when was the last time you
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beat your wife? To use a classic example, you don't need to say, uh, uh, uh, well, what, you know,
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that's a, that's a silly premise that sets you up to lose. You should reject the premise and say,
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what are you talking about property? I think man has a leadership role in the household.
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That would be controversial enough. But if you, if you take the bait on the question,
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you're boxing yourself into a corner and now he doesn't know how to get out of it.
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You can't blame people for asking you questions. Surely if you want to be accountable for what you've
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said, you've got to own your responses. Don't blame the question. I own the response.
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Let me ask you a question now and you say something and then say, well, actually I blame you for asking
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it. I understand, Piers. Piers, I understand. I believe the woman is given to the man. I believe
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she's given away by the father. I believe she belongs to the man. So you do. So fundamentally,
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right. So fundamentally, you do believe that a woman becomes a man's property. I believe she
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belongs to the man in marriage. Correct. Right. That's a little different. That to me is misogyny.
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And you're entitled to your opinion. Right. But do you, do you not understand why people think it is
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misogyny? I understand why some people can be very offended by what I say. What they do is they take
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a point like that and they ignore all the other points I make the other way around. That's why
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I've repeatedly asked you about that line to see if you've changed your position. But the reality is
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you haven't. It's not about changing positions. I'm a full grown adult and I stick by the things
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I say. The reality is he has. Which by the way is fine. Absolutely. You can tell that's why he's
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trying to get out of this little exchange. You said, you know, I wouldn't maybe say things the same
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way now that I did before I was famous. And yet actually you've doubled down and said exactly the same
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thing. On certain points. So that is what you believe. That's my point. Yes. I'm trying to
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work out. Look, I don't know you. We've just met, right? Yeah. I'm trying to work out who Andrew Tate
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is and what you actually believe. I don't want to twist anything at all. Then let me make it very,
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very clear to the camera. I believe a woman is given to the man in marriage. I believe that.
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I also believe a man has a duty to protect and provide for her. He's obviously saying that a woman
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is not property, right? To say a woman is given to a man in marriage and that a woman,
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that the wife belongs to the husband in a very deep sense, that's very different.
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Than saying the woman belongs to the man in the way that the leftist years tumbler belongs to me
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as property. And to say that the man has a responsibility toward the woman to protect the
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woman, that's very different than saying the woman is property. I don't have a responsibility to
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protect my leftist years tumbler. I could throw it against a wall and go buy a new one. Man can't do
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the same thing for his wife, or at least he certainly shouldn't do that. So, and what Piers wants to do
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here is also sort of dishonest because he keeps trying to say, that's still your opinion. That's still your
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opinion. But if you're listening to what Andrew Tate is saying, he's clearly saying that is not my
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opinion. The implication I think is I said a dumb, completely indefensible thing, but I don't want
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to admit that I said a dumb, indefensible thing. So I'm trying to both defend my view. I'm trying
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to say I stand by my views, but then change the view in what I'm explaining. And it's just
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If something happens or his wife's life is threatened, I believe that women and children
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first are on the lifeboat. I believe that men- But a man doesn't own a woman.
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Well, obviously we're not talking about that. We're talking about religious,
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biblical marriage. We're talking about something else.
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Yeah, but I'm a Christian. I don't believe that I own my wife.
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Do you believe your wife was given away to you when she took your last name?
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I believe that there is a process where a father traditionally walks his daughter down
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the aisle and hands his daughter to this man, and they stand there and become a union
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of two loving people in a partnership. No. There's no ownership involved.
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He's not selling her. The father of the bride isn't selling his daughter.
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We're not, though, because fundamentally I don't believe-
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You are, but semantics means meaning. So yes, we are always arguing over semantics.
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Well, I don't think we live in the world of slavery. I don't own any man or any woman.
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When you use phrases like property, that's what you imply.
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And so my point, again, is you're a smart guy, right? There's no denying that. You're
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a smart, you're a good talker. I've seen a lot of the stuff. What I don't think you
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When young, impressionable people who are not as smart see things like, I think my sister
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is a husband's property, yes, and you've just reaffirmed that belief, they think that
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Completely. I understand all of this very well, which is why when you're saying I was backtracking,
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I'm not. Do you have any regret, though, of the way you phrased this stuff?
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Well, this is the point I was trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is, when I was
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not nearly as famous, and I was making long format content, I was not sitting there anticipating
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I'd become the most Googled man on the planet, and that a few seconds could be taken out of
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No, but it's still what you believe. It's what you believe now. So what's the difference?
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It's manifestly not what he believes. You just listen to what he's saying.
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If you said to me, look, look, Piers, honestly, I've had time to think about this.
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He just said it. I don't believe that. That's one thing. Actually, you've said the opposite.
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It doesn't really matter whether you recorded it when he's famous or not famous. It's what
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I believe that a man has a duty to protect and provide for a woman. I believe that a
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woman's father gives her away to the man. That's what I believe. And that's in my marriage,
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that's the circumstance I'm going to live under. If people want to live in a different
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scenario, that's completely theirs. They're prerogative.
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You went on to say about authority over women. If I have a responsibility over it, I must have a degree
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of authority. For the same reason, if I have responsibility over it and people are going
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to use their mind, it's an example and analogy. Responsibility over a child, I have to have
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some authority. So you believe as part of your ownership or your property of the woman,
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I believe if you have responsibility over something, you have to have a degree of authority
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The point I'm making, if you'll please let me show this point, the point I was trying
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to make was talking about the safety of a woman.
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So now, Andrew Tate, it's almost the opposite problem in the first part. The first part when
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he says the woman is the man's property, that's just silly and it's not true. And he shouldn't
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defend it. And if he doesn't want to come off as weak and like he's backtracking, then
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he should just try to move on and say, yeah, whatever. Here's what I believe. You ask me
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what I believe? Here's what I believe. Well, do you believe that a woman's...
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I just told you what I believe. And just move on. Now he gets to the question of does
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a husband have authority, a certain kind of authority in the household? Duh. Is the husband
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in a certain sense the boss of the marriage? Duh. So here he should just completely double
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down. But he's so been off-footed. And Piers Morgan is very good at this, at off-footing
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people at the very top of the interview. He's so been off-footed. He goes, well, no, actually,
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that's not exactly what I mean. But he should just double down and be like, yep, absolutely,
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yeah. A husband has particular authority in a marriage. So you're saying that the man is
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somehow the sort of the boss in the marriage? Yes, ultimately. I mean, it's not a tyranny,
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one hopes. One hopes that it's actually the union of two people into one flesh, you know.
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But yes, ultimately, the man has a leadership role in the marriage. Duh. Deal with it, Piers.
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He was too strident and obstinate in the first answer. And I fear he's not obstinate enough in
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the second answer. Just stand up for it. You said something that's perfectly fine. Stick by it.
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And I was saying, well, I wouldn't let my woman walk alone at night. And they said, well,
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you're not in charge of her. You don't get to decide what she does. I said, I understand.
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But if I'm responsible for her safety, and I'm the person who's burdened with making sure she is
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safe, I have to have the authority to say, don't put yourself in unsafe situations. The two things
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are linked. Well, you don't have authority. You can absolutely have the right to say to the woman
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you're with, I don't think you should. But ultimately... If she decides, then I can't force her.
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Right. So authority implies that you have the ability... Yes, you can. You're her husband.
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You can say, don't go down dark alleys at night. You can. You have the right to say that.
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It's actually two liberals arguing with one another on these total liberal grounds of just
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individuals with no ties of loyalty or obligation to one another, just freely choosing whatever the
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hell they want. And Andrew Tate is as guilty of that silly premise as Piers Morgan is. But no,
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if you enter into a marriage, you surrender some of your individualism and your autonomy.
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The man surrenders some of his, the woman surrenders some of hers. And the man absolutely has the right,
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and as far as I'm concerned, the obligation to say, hey, wife of mine, even if you want to go
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down a dangerous dark alleyway at night and put your life at risk, I'm not going to let you do that.
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And I don't really care what your individual autonomy says. I, as your husband, am telling you,
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don't put yourself in that very dangerous situation. He's got to be a little more
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authoritarian. It's going to be a little, a little more conservative than, uh, they tell me this guy's
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the most right-wing guy on the planet. That's not a, that's a very liberal answer that he's giving.
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If you think I'm going to lock somebody up in their room, if that's, is that what you're
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implying? No, I just say, I don't think you know what authority means. I know what it means.
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I'm saying that if I have responsibility for her safety, then I have to have the authority,
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authority to tell her not to do unsafe. Yeah, but authority means that you have some form of
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control over this woman. I think you're trying to, I'm only trying to get to what you think.
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Honestly, I am. I come with no agenda here at all. I understand. And I'm explaining very,
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very clearly. If I have responsibility over said subject, I have to have authority over it. So let
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me say you have children, right? Right. You have responsibility for that. No, I have, I have
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legal authority over my children. That is very different to having legal authority over my wife
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or my female partner. Completely. But the point I'm trying to make. So you accept that?
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But you know, if you're in a marriage, you have a legal authority. He used the analogy of
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responsibility. Certainly in sacramental marriage. My friend, these are, these are very.
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These are actually really important things. They're important things, but you interrupt,
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you interrupt me every five seconds. So it's hard for me to actually explain my point.
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The point I'm making here is very simple. You have children and you're responsible for their
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safety. So you're going to have authority to say, don't go out at night, perhaps because you
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want them to be safe. I have legal authority. You have a legal authority, legal authority. I'm saying that if I had a
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woman and the question where you've raised this soundbite from, I was asked about protecting a woman,
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making sure she's safe. And I would say, I wouldn't want her to go out at night on her own
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because I'm responsible for her safety. And someone said, well, you don't have authority
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over to do that. And I said, well, no, I can't force her to stay inside. But if she were to ask
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me, how do I protect myself at night? I would say, well, you should stay inside. That's how you
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should do it. I don't have an issue with what you said.
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They do agree, unfortunately, and they're both wrong on this topic.
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You quite get why there's a furore over what you say, with respect, because the semantics point
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would be if we're saying the same thing in different ways. But we're not. I'm saying
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to you that when you say I have to have some authority over a woman, I say to you, you have
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Right, because you're a liberal, Piers, and you don't recognize the obligations that men
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Legally appointed, absolutely not. I agree. However, when it comes to things like personal
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responsibility or personal safety, men, largely by society, are accepted. We're the
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protectors and providers. We can sit here and pretend that in the world we live in, if
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me and my wife were walking down the street and men were to come up and try and attack
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us, I wouldn't be the one fighting. But we both know, in reality, I would.
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I have a degree of responsibility to protect her. So if I have a degree of responsibility
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to protect her physically, then the point I'm trying to make is I will do my best to
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make sure she's never putting herself in unsafe situations.
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Go further. And you have the authority to do it. Stick with your first point, man.
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She would come to me and say, how can I make sure I'm as safe as possible?
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But I don't want to interrupt you. I just want to point out that's not what authority
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Yeah, Piers is right about that. Voluntary authority is not authority.
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It's not. Piers is totally right here. He's not right about his view of marriage and what
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a big lib he is. But he is right about authority has a meaning. And Andrew Tate is trying to run
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away from that meaning because he doesn't want to sound like an authoritarian, which is considered
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the absolute worst thing you could be these days. His point was correct in the first
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place. Yes. A husband has a certain authority over his wife. Full stop. End of story. There
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it is. That's not absolute. It is not permitted to exceed the bounds of right reason and the
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moral order and be arbitrary and capricious. But a man, a husband, has a certain authority
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over his wife. Yes. That's part of marriage. Just, you had it. You were right in the first
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A woman comes to me and says, I want you to keep me safe. She is handing me authority
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for her safety. But do you understand the difference between having authority over somebody and
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somebody giving you permission to have authority? Completely. I never said that. One is consensual
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and one isn't. But why are we pretending I do? But marriage is that consent to the authority
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of the husband. I have to have some authority. And the point. Only if I'm responsible for her
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safety. If I'm not responsible for her safety, I don't have authority. That was sad. That was sad
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because he just, he made the opposite errors. In the first bit, he tried to defend a stupid point
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that genuinely is, I don't like to throw around the word misogynistic, but it's as close to
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misogynistic as it gets. And it's just dumb and it's not a good point. The point that he was trying
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to substitute into its place actually was a good point that the husband belongs to the wife and the
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wife belongs to the husband and this looks a certain way and they have particular roles. Yeah, of course.
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But he should have just ditched that first point that Piers wanted him to defend and stood by the
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thing he was actually explaining in the clip. In the second one, he should have stood by the point
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he originally made and not gone on to his explanation, which basically just tried to
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explain away authority as the voluntary association of two individuals, which was a dumb point.
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Instead of going from here to here to here, he should have just been right down the middle.
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Should have been right down the bullseye the whole time.
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Do you respect women? Absolutely. Why wouldn't I? Do you think that 18, 19-year-old women are more
00:20:29.240
attractive than 25-year-old women? I think there's attractive people. That's a loaded question.
00:20:34.420
I don't know. Well, it's not really, is it? I can't say that. You know why I'm asking it.
00:20:37.660
Of course I do, but I can't sit here and say- Well, for the benefit of viewers who don't know
00:20:40.260
why I'm asking, you said this. In general, this is also one of the reasons men find youth
00:20:44.360
attractive. You want to blow up the internet? I'll blow up the internet right effing now.
00:20:48.340
The reason 18 and 19-year-olds are more attractive than 25-year-olds is because they've been through
00:20:53.040
less d***. People say, oh, you can't say that, but yes, I can. A 19-year-old is more attractive
00:20:58.520
than a 26-year-old woman, and I'll tell you why. Because that 26-year-old has talked to more guys,
00:21:03.060
been to the club more times, been effed and dumped more times, more arguments,
00:21:07.660
more mess, more for me to clean up. That is misogyny.
00:21:12.260
Why? Because you are encouraging a mindset about 25-year-old women that makes them sound
00:21:17.540
out to be infinitely less desirable than 18, 19-year-olds.
00:21:21.500
You couldn't call that misogyny. You would call it 25-year-old phobia or something,
00:21:27.560
anti-25-year-old rhetoric. But he's not attacking women. He's not criticizing women or insulting
00:21:33.020
women. He's insulting 25-year-olds. And it's on a faulty premise, I think. It's on the premise
00:21:37.160
of the sexual revolution that just women are going to be promiscuous, and that's inevitable,
00:21:41.760
and it's true of all women. So the issue he has is not that a 25-year-old is less attractive than
00:21:48.180
an 18-year-old just by the virtue of being 25. The premise that's going into this is that the 25-year-old
00:21:53.540
has just slept with a bunch of men, which may very likely be the case in our culture, but it also may
00:21:58.280
not be the case because the 25-year-old might be chaste and modest. And in fact, it could be the case
00:22:04.200
that the 18- or 19-year-old has slept with more men than the 25-year-old. So if that's really the
00:22:08.480
issue that Andrew Tate is talking about, then the age is really just a kind of shorthand for what
00:22:15.220
he's saying, which is that he finds women who are less promiscuous to be more attractive than women
00:22:21.480
who are more promiscuous. And that is, broadly speaking, true. He's suggesting that modesty is a
00:22:29.860
greater virtue for women than promiscuity, which is obviously true. And Piers Morgan says that this
00:22:35.520
is misogynistic. He's saying it's somehow anti-woman to suggest that women don't allow
00:22:41.120
themselves to be used for the physical pleasure of men who are going to throw them in the trash the
00:22:45.560
minute that they're done with them and they've had their pleasure. But that's quite the opposite.
00:22:49.500
It's actually very pro-woman to say, hey, ladies, the sexual revolution is a total scam. Don't let
00:22:54.220
yourself get used by men for their sexual pleasure. Don't let the guy get the milk for free instead of
00:22:58.900
buying the cow. Speaking of Andrew Tate's impolitic comments on property. Actually,
00:23:04.460
Andrew Tate is giving much more pro-woman advice here than Piers Morgan seems to be doing. Andrew
00:23:09.800
Tate has this quality that I think Alex Jones has. Alex Jones has this quality where he very often
00:23:15.480
says true things in the least believable way possible. So he'll say something that's true.
00:23:21.520
He'll say like, two plus two equals four. But instead of just saying two plus two equals four,
00:23:25.080
he'll be ripping his shirt off and, you know, screaming, two plus two equals four. And if you
00:23:30.860
don't believe in that, then you believe in the aliens and the Tricoms and the whatever, you know.
00:23:35.100
And but what he's saying actually is very often true. And Andrew Tate has this issue here. He's
00:23:40.120
saying, hey, women, you should be more modest and not allow yourself to be used by a bunch of dudes
00:23:44.400
that will actually in the long run make you more attractive to men and more attractive to better
00:23:48.780
men. But he somehow manages to say it in the most vulgar, grotesque, and offensive way.
00:23:54.380
He possibly can. But the point is totally true.
00:23:56.780
Well, firstly, even if that was the case, that wouldn't be misogyny.
00:24:01.020
That's not misogyny because it's not anti-women. I'm saying that an 18 or a 19 year old woman
00:24:06.760
Anti-25 year old women, we can argue, but not misogyny.
00:24:13.100
Not when I'm not when I'm saying that women are beautiful and attractive at a certain age and
00:24:16.900
You're saying 18, 19 years are more attractive than 25 years.
00:24:19.180
Than ageist, perhaps, but misogynistic, absolutely not.
00:24:26.140
So you don't think if you're saying slightly hateful things about a 25-year-old woman...
00:24:35.100
So you would go up to a 25-year-old woman and tell her exactly what I've just read about?
00:24:37.780
Why would I walk up to a random 25-year-old woman...
00:24:39.900
You said it in public on the internet, and it's been listened to and watched by millions
00:24:49.960
There were feminists attacking men for toxic masculinity and attacking me and saying things.
00:24:54.320
And I said things back which were going to antagonize them.
00:24:59.500
I think a lot of allegations of toxic masculinity are not toxic.
00:25:04.200
I do think that kind of sentence that I've just read out, that paragraph, is actually toxic.
00:25:13.140
It's toxic to say women don't sleep around with a bunch of dudes?
00:25:27.180
You're making out like I'm walking around the street going up to a random 25-year-old woman.
00:25:29.840
You're doing it to tens of millions of people online.
00:25:35.660
You hear Piers Morgan says, you would never say that to a woman's face.
00:25:38.460
Andrew Tate says, why would I walk up to a random woman and say that?
00:25:44.320
Okay, if there's no difference, then I guess he would say it to a woman's face.
00:25:47.120
Clearly, Piers Morgan is just offended that Andrew Tate thinks that young women shouldn't
00:25:53.980
And why Piers Morgan is offended by this, I don't know.
00:25:58.200
But Andrew Tate here is making the good, wholesome, pro-woman argument.
00:26:02.640
And Piers Morgan, wittingly or unwillingly, is leading those poor young girls astray.
00:26:08.680
Young boys, right, in their teens, are you comfortable that they would have that mindset?
00:26:14.740
I think that young boys in their teens lack life experience.
00:26:18.520
And they need to be very, very careful what they're digesting online, whether it's my content
00:26:22.700
I think you know for a fact millions of them are digesting exactly what you're saying.
00:26:27.020
The entire internet, to a degree, I think any subject you can find, there's going to be
00:26:39.240
A lot of the stuff you talk about, I think, yeah, he's got a good point, right?
00:26:43.760
But when I read that kind of thing, I'm like, I just, how much of that is you?
00:26:54.020
And actually, do you see it as weakness to admit you shouldn't have said something like
00:26:59.380
I think what's happened is that, like I said, long format content, arguments with feminists,
00:27:04.640
arguments with the toxic masculine crowd, arguments with the left, and they're going to
00:27:08.180
take a small clip, small sentence from ours, and they're going to try and paint me as a
00:27:16.600
Piers Morgan actually does not cut totally evenly left or right, but we do know that
00:27:30.480
He's just said, yeah, promiscuity is great, and hyper-individualism, and no mutual obligations
00:27:45.720
So that's a kind of a conservative view, though doesn't really track in America because we
00:28:00.160
But on these issues, there's no question Piers is on the left.
00:28:03.080
And you're doing exactly as I knew would happen on this interview, which is because you're
00:28:06.280
You're not going to watch hours and hours and hours of video.
00:28:07.720
Actually, I have watched hours and hours of video, and I'm going to come to the stuff
00:28:10.480
where I agree with you, and I'm going to come to the stuff about your censorship, which
00:28:16.700
I just thought off the top, you said to me, and you were quite bold about it, well, go
00:28:30.500
I understand how it's been weaponized and used against me.
00:28:35.100
Did I, at the time, mean what I said in the context of the conversation, which obviously
00:28:39.840
you're not familiar with, and the people at home are not familiar with?
00:28:43.720
The 25-year-old women, they've just talked to more guys, been to the club more times,
00:28:48.240
been effed and dumped more times, more arguments, more mess, more for me to clean up.
00:28:52.160
Well, there's a whole bunch of context and conversation around that that's been missed,
00:28:56.620
Well, I encourage people who are interested to go watch it.
00:28:59.260
Right, but I mean, I've just read out three sentences on the bounce there.
00:29:05.800
He says, you're missing all the context of the conversation.
00:29:11.060
You don't get context in three sentences, Pierce.
00:29:13.420
I was explaining, I was talking with a Muslim guy who was on the panel, and he was explaining
00:29:16.700
how youth is very valued in most parts of the world, and why virginity is valued in most
00:29:21.940
The feminists were arguing against it, and I was sitting there, actually very much like
00:29:25.020
you, a mediator between the two, explaining why in most of the world still today, perhaps
00:29:29.040
not in the Western world, virginity is coveted, youth is coveted in most of the world.
00:29:32.480
And throughout all of human history, and I was sitting there making the point, explaining
00:29:36.280
why in certain parts of the world they think how they do, even though it's very different
00:29:41.300
So I was making a point, mediating between two groups very similar to yourself.
00:29:46.120
They've taken this clip of it, and it's been weaponized and used against me.
00:29:48.960
It's because I'm now the most famous Google person on the planet.
00:29:53.020
But I'm definitely not a danger to women in any regard.
00:29:55.400
I date women 25, 26, 27 years old all the time.
00:29:58.180
None of them are offended by the things I'm saying.
00:30:01.280
I think the danger, if it concerns you, the danger is the influence you have on young
00:30:09.120
And that's really where I'm trying to get to what you really believe, and how much you've
00:30:12.600
just shot off because you think it's entertaining, and you haven't really given it much thought.
00:30:17.760
And whether now you're a bit older, and you've had all the fallout, whether part of you
00:30:21.580
is thinking, actually, if I hadn't, as Joe Rogan says, if you hadn't said stuff like
00:30:25.860
this, you'd probably still be on all these platforms.
00:30:28.020
You'd be massively more popular, massively more famous, massively richer.
00:30:32.260
So I'm really just trying to get to, on the blatantly misogynist stuff, do you just wish
00:30:39.460
It was certainly said before the great power came.
00:30:43.280
However, like I said at the time, with the context of the conversation, I know that I'm
00:30:47.920
not saying things which I believe to be detrimental to the world.
00:30:50.260
However, they've been misconstrued, and they've been misunderstood.
00:30:52.940
If a 25-year-old woman was watching this, would you say, I'm sorry for saying that?
00:30:56.880
Well, I wouldn't want anyone to be offended by anything I say.
00:30:58.880
But I say things that offend, and this is the thing that's interesting, Piers.
00:31:07.160
But you're answering a different question to the one I asked you.
00:31:15.560
Yeah, so again, my point is simply, if a 26-year-old woman is watching this and has
00:31:20.720
See, at this point, Tate's doing pretty well because he's kind of mocking Piers a little
00:31:24.860
But at this point, it's really tedious for the viewer, too.
00:31:27.520
All Piers is saying is, well, you know, this is really misogynistic.
00:31:34.900
So at that point, you say, well, I reject your premise, Piers.
00:31:37.860
And I think very clearly, if my criticism is of some women, but not other women, and by the
00:31:43.440
way, even those two groups of women are just stand-ins for broader concepts like modesty
00:31:47.820
and promiscuity, even if, let's say, it's 25-year-old women versus 18-year-old women,
00:31:51.440
then by definition, my criticism can't be misogynistic because the common thread between
00:32:01.900
So call me an ageist or something, even though, again, age is just a stand-in for broader
00:32:10.400
And then Piers just keeps saying, do you take it back?
00:32:14.040
And at this point, because it's dragged on so long, I just think Andrew Tate has to realize
00:32:27.620
And at a certain point, if he just keeps saying, no, no, no, no, no, Piers has to move on.
00:32:31.100
I will say that I am sorry that that offends you.
00:32:33.920
However, there's a large contingent of the world.
00:32:39.520
However, there's a large contingent of the world that believe that.
00:32:42.820
Parts of the world that believe that about 26-year-old women are parts of the world where
00:32:54.180
But is that the kind of world for a woman that you have put on the border?
00:33:00.980
You're using that as the excuse for why you're not sorry for saying it.
00:33:05.280
Tate, just double down and say, I believe what I believe.
00:33:29.000
Now, I would respect you more if you said that.
00:33:30.880
Right, because you're a big lib and you want me to encourage women to be promiscuous.
00:33:38.980
My content existed because I tried my very hardest to be an absolute and utter realist,
00:33:44.840
I was pointing out that very uncomfortable truth.
00:33:47.980
It's an uncomfortable truth in many parts of the world.
00:33:53.660
What do you mean that's a truth in other parts of the world?
00:33:57.220
You're not talking about another part of the world.
00:33:58.540
Just say it's a fact that modesty is better than promiscuity.
00:34:06.300
I was talking about what the people on the panel believe the difference is.
00:34:13.600
Well, then a 26-year-old is older than a 19-year-old.
00:34:20.960
If the age is a stand-in for these concepts, then it's a good argument.
00:34:24.900
If it's just the age, then it's not a good argument.
00:34:26.980
I don't think that the age is the only thing that's going to decipher how many men and women
00:34:34.220
It's about you understanding that there's large conversations going on.
00:34:40.480
I believe that it's more likely a 26-year-old's had more partners than a 19-year-old.
00:34:49.740
If you're saying that's my premise, I'm using these as sort of...
00:34:54.460
It's not about, we're repeating ourselves here.
00:34:56.420
Yeah, and you're both just not, you're just talking completely past one another.
00:35:08.840
Piers, I was using 18 and 19-year-olds as one concept.
00:35:19.400
As it would be popularly understood to represent relative modesty and inexperience and even perhaps virginity and promiscuity.
00:35:31.420
It is a fact here, there, everywhere around the world that modesty and virtue and virginity are to be preferred to promiscuity and allowing men to use you for their sexual pleasure until they throw you in the trash and then some other guy picks you up.
00:35:53.300
And it might offend you because you think that women should just go sleep around with any guy who winks at them.
00:36:03.700
And so we're having a moral disagreement here, Piers, and I'm on the side of modesty and virtue, and you're on the side of slutting it up, and I'm right and you're wrong.
00:36:14.960
I just explained to you exactly what I said, and the way that I phrased it was metaphorical, and I used some narrative, and I took some creative license.
00:36:24.260
But the point that I think pretty clearly made was true, and it remains true.
00:36:33.760
And it would have ended that misery of an interrogation.
00:36:43.640
I don't believe depression as a clinical disease is real, no.
00:36:48.280
You don't believe people can be clinically depressed?
00:36:51.980
Unfortunately, I have some friends who suffer from that.
00:36:56.280
I believe that the number one power you have against these things are taking, trying to take control of your own mind and affecting your own life.
00:37:04.240
I believe that it's not healthy to hand over all your power and believe that depression is an outside disease that you can't affect.
00:37:11.460
I know that when I've had difficult periods in my life, and also many of my friends, like I've said, suffered from PTSD and been through terrible things, I've lived a very difficult life, and I know people who have, that the things that made them feel better is when they woke up and said, you know what?
00:37:23.100
I'm not going to allow this to damage me anymore.
00:37:26.320
I'm going to get up, and I'm going to fight this as hard as I can.
00:37:37.360
Well, you've got to let me interject when I don't agree with you, right?
00:37:41.800
Where I don't agree with you is that there's no such thing as clinical depression.
00:37:50.100
There's a different argument about have we gone a bit too soft, right, in schools and all the rest of it.
00:37:56.500
Do I think some people moan and whine too much about their lot in life?
00:38:06.600
And my argument is that if you actually bracket everybody who's not clinically depressed
00:38:11.680
and doesn't have the genuine medical condition, then actually if millions of people are deemed
00:38:17.620
to have depression, the ones who really need the help don't get it.
00:38:26.260
But you don't—there is such a thing as clinical depression.
00:38:30.780
Andrew Tate's view is the more correct of these two views.
00:38:34.480
These guys are both wrong, but Andrew Tate's view is closer to being correct.
00:38:41.920
Andrew Tate got most of his soliloquy correct, except for that first part.
00:38:47.560
The first part where he said, you've just got to take full responsibility of just your
00:38:53.160
You've just—you've got to realize you're the only one making decisions.
00:38:56.440
That's not going to help you because it's—again, it's a worldview that is missing God.
00:39:00.940
And so if you're missing God, then you're missing the whole thing, especially when we're
00:39:12.860
Faith, hope, and charity are the three theological virtues.
00:39:15.160
And so without faith in God, hope is impossible, at least in the long run, at least on the things
00:39:22.820
The reason that they're both wrong is because they're having a debate about depression as
00:39:30.020
a physical thing and depression as a metaphysical thing.
00:39:35.780
Depression obviously has a physical aspect, probably not a chemical imbalance because that's
00:39:40.780
been pretty much debunked, but depression looks like something.
00:39:48.920
You kind of mope around and drag your feet, and maybe there is a chemical quality to it
00:39:56.080
in the brain or some physical manifestation of it in the brain or anywhere else.
00:40:09.160
You're maybe thinking of really sad and dark things.
00:40:12.860
Maybe you're even contemplating suicide at the extreme of it.
00:40:18.280
What these guys want to do is cleanly and neatly separate it, one or the other.
00:40:24.240
Nothing, nothing, not one thing on this earth is just physical or just metaphysical.
00:40:32.400
Not God himself is just metaphysical because God himself is incarnate.
00:40:41.020
It's the word, the logos, the divine logic of the universe, made flesh and dwelling among
00:40:47.960
And that is the understanding of the relation between symbol and symbolized that forms our
00:40:52.760
entire culture and led to all of the greatness of Western civilization, led to our very consciousness
00:40:58.480
And over time, especially as we have moved away from that religion and that understanding
00:41:03.360
of the world, those concepts have become so abstracted that we're having these incredibly
00:41:08.680
stupid debates where everybody loses because both sides are representing some part of the
00:41:17.160
But nobody seems to be representing the fullness of truth.
00:41:20.380
And so it's just going to be babble back and forth and no one's going to get to the heart
00:41:23.920
I would say the first thing you need to do is stop accepting the identity of a clinically
00:41:31.600
And what you need to do is stop identifying that way and let's work together to try and
00:41:35.180
But there isn't an eminent doctor in the world who would tell you there is no such thing
00:41:40.300
Who would not tell you that some people is simply beyond their control.
00:41:42.880
I think Johan Hari wrote a book saying exactly that, my friend.
00:41:47.760
And my point is that a lot of people who are at clinic...
00:41:59.980
I don't believe in things that take power away from you.
00:42:03.380
This is so shallow, it makes me want to pull my hair out.
00:42:10.540
Again, this is that little area where you lose me.
00:42:16.080
The thousands of people, the thousands of people who have emailed me saying,
00:42:19.680
my doctor told me I was clinically depressed and it's a disease that I have got in my brain
00:42:24.460
And I started listening to you and I realized that that's not the case and I can fix my own
00:42:27.860
life and you're the only person who has ever helped me.
00:42:32.100
I bet Andrew Tate is more helpful than most psychiatrists on this issue.
00:42:38.820
I am reading the emails of people who I have cured of clinical depression.
00:42:41.780
You're reading emails from people who have believed you when you say there isn't such a thing.
00:42:45.740
And they've probably never been diagnosed with clinical depression.
00:42:48.360
They just want to go along with what Andrew Tate says.
00:42:55.040
I respect that you think my view is dangerous and I respect...
00:42:59.860
I fear I'm going to be sucked through the floor and disappear forever into the abyss.
00:43:06.880
I did not say clinical depression is massively over-diagnosed.
00:43:11.580
I said that people who claim to be depressed but don't have clinical depression, I think that is massively overblown.
00:43:19.120
In other words, there are a lot of people who just have a bad day and declare, I've got depression.
00:43:28.160
If you have and you have clinical depression, that's one thing.
00:43:31.300
But if you haven't, we could probably work on some mental strength and resilience skills with you.
00:43:35.580
But a clinically depressed person has an absolutely proven medical condition that is beyond their control.
00:43:42.380
Not according to me and many others, my friend.
00:43:52.900
But psychiatry, it's amazing that he's referring to psychiatry here.
00:43:58.480
Some pop doctors who have lost so much of their credibility in recent years.
00:44:03.240
The entire medical establishment during COVID lost so much of its credibility.
00:44:07.020
The lobbies, I think, of the American Medical Association or the Psychiatric Association,
00:44:11.520
they changed the DSM, the guidebook of mental disorders, based on political correctness.
00:44:16.460
Because it's no longer politically correct to point out that men who think that they're women are mentally ill.
00:44:21.080
They just changed the definition in the DSM based on what?
00:44:23.500
Not based on science or based on truth, but based on political correctness.
00:44:27.720
Furthermore, psychiatry is in the throes of a major crisis right now.
00:44:31.400
It's the major replication crisis, which is a huge number of major psychiatric studies cannot be replicated.
00:44:37.880
They have absolutely no scientific rigor to them whatsoever.
00:44:40.960
And so the idea that Pierce is deferring to these people as the be-all and end-all authority is totally laughable.
00:44:46.560
It's not only the category error here of pretending that that depression is purely physical or purely metaphysical,
00:44:53.540
just like anything is purely physical or purely metaphysical.
00:44:56.020
But it's also just a really basic journalistic fact-checking error.
00:45:02.200
It's an error of what authorities to trust because he's deferring to people who have a terrible track record on the truth.
00:45:08.720
Much of which I agree with, as you've seen in the interview.
00:45:11.980
But some of which is ludicrous, and that's one of them.
00:45:16.020
If you said to me, we're in a victim whose society has got to stop, I'm with you.
00:45:19.640
But the moment you try and deny clinical depression.
00:45:25.760
I do not believe it's a disease that you catch from the sky and you cannot affect.
00:45:29.600
I believe that no matter what happens, I believe you have control of your own mind and you can fight against it.
00:45:33.580
I believe if you change your circumstances in your life, you may feel different.
00:45:37.240
To a large degree, that's true, but not in all cases.
00:45:40.080
I obviously am not a psychiatrist. I'm not a doctor.
00:45:41.940
I told him, because I replied to my emails, I said, have you been to a psychiatrist?
00:45:46.120
He said, yes, I'm clinically depressed. I've been on these pills this amount of time.
00:45:50.520
I said, I don't know what to say to you besides this.
00:45:53.200
And he said he lost his girlfriend. That's why I became clinically depressed.
00:45:55.620
I said, listen, go to the gym. Get a six-pack first.
00:46:00.320
If you still feel like killing yourself, I don't know what else to say to you.
00:46:02.340
But I'd say, strong body is a strong mind. Go train.
00:46:05.220
He went, he started sending me progress pictures, emailing me him getting in better, better shape,
00:46:08.600
and eventually got a six-pack. He's now a professional bodybuilder.
00:46:10.800
And he said, I can't believe I was considering that. I feel so much better, etc.
00:46:13.740
The doctor was telling him he was clinically depressed and couldn't cure it.
00:46:16.660
He started taking control of his own life, and now he felt better.
00:46:19.080
Now, I'm not saying it's the case for everybody.
00:46:21.740
Here's my question, though. Have you seen the guy's medical records?
00:46:27.200
I am taking the word of a man who emailed me with a bunch of medication and specific benefits.
00:46:30.880
So you're denying proven science because one guy writes to you who you help,
00:46:34.900
and you've not seen any evidence he ever had clinical depression diagnosed.
00:46:41.560
The overarching theory of clinical depression that is the basis for the modern psychiatric prescriptions
00:46:51.460
on clinical depression, the idea of the chemical imbalance theory that demands the widespread use
00:46:56.960
of these expensive depression drugs that one in eight Americans are now hooked on,
00:47:03.760
The scientific basis for that just got completely gutted, and there is no evidence whatsoever
00:47:09.280
that SSRIs correct any sort of chemical imbalance.
00:47:14.000
Just within the last, what, five or six weeks, that whole thing has been gutted,
00:47:21.760
It's the proven science. It's the proven science.
00:47:24.040
Ignore the reality of the people that are telling you actually what's happening to them.
00:47:27.580
I don't know. I'm going into a little bit of a Paul McCartney or a time.
00:47:33.340
So Piers Morgan, I'll just speak in the American accent for now.
00:47:40.300
So you're going to look at all of your emails, and you're going to talk to all the people that you know,
00:47:47.120
and you think that just because you've seen it in reality,
00:47:50.140
that that's actually better than what's been published in these bogus medical journals.
00:47:54.700
And Andrew Tatey says, yeah, or at least I hope he says, yeah,
00:47:57.480
because that's obviously much more reliable than the BS statistics that have largely been debunked.
00:48:02.940
You know, rants in public to tens of millions of people denying something
00:48:06.100
because this guy writes to you and says he had it and you cured him.
00:48:09.060
And I think that's a dangerous mindset, Andrew.
00:48:11.000
That's why you don't have a responsible view of your influence over people.
00:48:14.700
I disagree. It's very responsible because I'm saving people's lives.
00:48:20.380
I disagree that you cannot affect it and change your life and take control
00:48:26.160
I refuse to accept that there are people out there who cannot become happy, contented individuals.
00:48:32.120
What is dangerous about what he's saying is it gets back to the same problem of a view
00:48:38.280
that puts man at the center of the universe rather than God at the center of the universe
00:48:42.880
because he's calling on men to be their own saviors and men cannot be their own saviors.
00:48:49.540
You can do a lot to put yourself in a better position.
00:48:51.400
You can practice the virtues and make yourself healthier to a large degree.
00:48:55.740
But you are not ultimately in control of your destiny or of fate or of the order of the universe.
00:49:03.240
And so what's dangerous about this is that when these things don't work,
00:49:06.560
and Andrew Tate even admits that in some cases this won't work,
00:49:09.160
you go to the gym and you still will be a little bit depressed,
00:49:11.200
at least for some group of people, that you blame yourself.
00:49:13.820
And it's the same problem as the prosperity gospel,
00:49:16.400
this idea that if you just pray a little bit harder,
00:49:19.060
you'll get a lot more money because God rewards people who pray really hard by giving them a lot of money.
00:49:23.600
So if you don't have material success in this world,
00:49:27.100
that that must be some kind of sign that you are not saved or your faith is insufficient or something.
00:49:32.340
And that's very silly and corrosive and really destructive.
00:49:36.040
He's falling in some ways into the same era Piers Morgan is,
00:49:38.460
which is he's trying to set the world up and establish a view of the world on purely physical grounds.
00:49:46.020
You know, he's trying, it's just not, you just go to the gym and you just lift the weights
00:49:49.360
and you just get mind over matter, you know, and you, and you pull,
00:49:54.280
you yourself will just pull your body into, into submission.
00:49:58.460
Once you have that six pack, you won't be depressed anymore.
00:50:04.600
There are a lot of things that are unexplained, a lot of work around the fringes.
00:50:07.440
And ultimately, ultimately you are not in control,
00:50:09.980
which is why you need to have faith and hope and charity for your fellow man.
00:50:12.660
I refuse to accept we live in a world where God has created people who,
00:50:16.140
no matter how hard they work and how good their life becomes, can't be happy.
00:50:21.780
I accept that the universe is a very giving place and that God loves all of us.
00:50:25.100
And if you try your best and you work hard, you can become a better person.
00:50:27.820
And I also will argue with you and I'll counter the problem.
00:50:31.160
You're a platform telling people they have clinical depression,
00:50:35.600
Okay, well then, if they have clinical depression.
00:50:39.600
No, you're saying if people have clinical depression,
00:50:42.460
I don't know if they have nothing to do about it.
00:50:42.820
They go to a doctor and they get diagnosed and they get help.
00:50:46.760
Something opposite of what you just said I said.
00:50:48.240
I would argue the point that if somebody has depression of any kind,
00:50:50.940
whether it's clinical, whether it exists or not,
00:50:55.300
taking personal responsibility and working hard
00:50:58.080
best thing they can possibly do for their life going forward.
00:51:04.660
I believe that people can take control and fight against things.
00:51:19.600
But I'm taking you to task over the stuff I don't agree with.
00:51:29.360
and having some control over their lives in its proper place.
00:51:34.040
I do not believe ultimately is the be all and end all first principle in personal sovereignty.
00:51:39.880
That is what the serpent in the Garden of Eden told to Eve.
00:51:44.260
That is what the Satanists of the 20th century insisted upon.
00:51:48.160
The first commandment of Aleister Crowley, do what thou wilt.
00:51:53.740
I don't believe ultimately in the total personal sovereignty.
00:51:58.640
I believe in the sovereignty of God and what's good.
00:52:03.580
but it doesn't jibe with so much of his worldview.
00:52:09.240
which really establishes whatever good version of individualism there is,
00:52:13.280
that comes by acknowledging the sovereignty of God,
00:52:15.420
which gives you so much more control over your life,
00:52:30.000
then you will have tools to work through sadness.
00:52:52.660
And so the fear of this idolatry of man and of your own will
00:52:57.260
and the sovereignty of the individual or whatever
00:52:59.940
is that ultimately when you are sad because it's a fallen world,
00:53:13.860
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00:53:26.100
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He tried to get me deported from the United States.
00:54:30.620
I think that Alex Jones is a sovereign individual
00:54:39.020
The people who insist on the ultimate sovereignty
00:54:47.200
It's funny that Andrew Tate is called a right-winger
00:54:53.020
he shares exactly the same premises of the left,
00:55:08.460
and so it's just liberals arguing with liberals.
00:55:21.000
he keeps coming down to the same stupid leftism
00:55:24.520
Truth on issues is usually somewhere in the middle
00:55:38.280
where you know nothing about the most infamous thing
00:56:08.720
First, you interrupt people a lot, which is good.
00:56:22.360
And I want to remind you of what the question was.
00:56:26.500
which you've done repeatedly through the interview
00:57:10.080
If you let me get a word in edgeways, I'll tell you.
00:57:16.100
Tate is totally right to call him out for this.
00:57:25.120
Has he said things that are really awful and terrible?
00:57:42.280
here are a hundred stories that Alex Jones covered
00:57:48.620
that Alex Jones has a better track record than CNN.
00:58:03.280
And that's what Andrew Tate is pointing out there.
00:58:15.520
He realizes something is wrong with the culture
00:58:25.000
which is probably why he's gotten so popular actually.
00:58:36.320
But I also wish that he would take it even further.
00:59:01.780
and does not totally successfully dig out of them.
00:59:05.500
Just got to go all the way down to first principles,