The Michael Knowles Show - YES or NO： Dave Rubin

00:00:00.000 Did female MMA get so popular because it gave lesbian couples a professional outlet?

00:00:09.240 Hmm.

00:00:24.540 Welcome to Yes or No, the bibulous battle to discover who knows whom better.

00:00:30.000 My guest today is my friend, Dave Rubin.

00:00:33.000 How do we play?

00:00:34.180 I'll ask Dave a yes or no question.

00:00:36.180 He will select his answer away from my prying eyes.

00:00:39.060 Then, I will guess how he answered.

00:00:41.700 If I guess correctly, I get a point.

00:00:43.860 If I guess incorrectly, I lose a point.

00:00:46.380 No matter what, I will end up drinking.

00:00:49.180 Then, it's Dave's turn.

00:00:51.020 Neither of us have seen the questions beforehand.

00:00:52.840 Whoever has the most points at the end wins.

00:00:54.580 The stakes could be higher.

00:00:56.660 Let's get started.

00:00:57.400 Why am I hooked up to, like, 17 electrical devices in various parts of my body right now?

00:01:03.900 I was not told about that.

00:01:05.500 I signed off on three quarters of those.

00:01:07.620 The other quarter is entirely on the production team.

00:01:10.560 Shapiro.

00:01:11.080 Do you know why we're here?

00:01:11.960 Yes.

00:01:12.460 We're here today.

00:01:13.820 I'm not exactly sure.

00:01:14.960 I know.

00:01:15.260 I know why.

00:01:15.740 I know you want me to answer a lot of questions.

00:01:16.860 Yes.

00:01:17.260 I want you to answer a lot of questions.

00:01:18.860 There's some rules.

00:01:19.700 I don't know.

00:01:20.000 I don't remember a lot of them.

00:01:21.880 As I understand it, we're here because you've just come out with a tequila.

00:01:26.120 And I have a drinking game show.

00:01:28.320 And that seemed just too perfect to leave in separate universities.

00:01:33.660 What if we both retire after this?

00:01:35.360 We should.

00:01:35.640 Before we get into product placement and, you know, patting each other on the back.

00:01:39.080 What if this is just the end of it?

00:01:40.420 You know what I mean?

00:01:40.960 Like, we did it.

00:01:42.040 We both left L.A.

00:01:43.640 You moved to Nashville.

00:01:44.920 I moved to Miami.

00:01:45.840 We're here.

00:01:46.700 Cigars, tequila.

00:01:47.800 And we're just like, good luck, everybody.

00:01:50.320 I'm done.

00:01:50.720 I started out trying to win votes.

00:01:52.720 Now I'm just trying to win boats.

00:01:54.060 You know, just trying to kick back.

00:01:55.920 And we're both like old school at this point.

00:01:58.140 Yeah.

00:01:58.500 Like, we've been in the game forever.

00:01:59.600 But still really hot and grizzled.

00:02:00.940 No, we look good.

00:02:01.720 Nice.

00:02:02.160 Distinguished.

00:02:03.000 Yes.

00:02:03.520 Can I say, you are well known for the darker bags under the ice.

00:02:06.240 This is the least baggie I've ever seen.

00:02:08.440 Really?

00:02:08.880 I don't know what's going on.

00:02:09.540 I'm going to explain to you why.

00:02:10.460 You're drinking a little water these days?

00:02:11.740 No.

00:02:12.100 No.

00:02:12.460 No.

00:02:13.640 I'm drinking your tequila.

00:02:14.960 It's just makeup.

00:02:16.880 It's incredible.

00:02:18.580 Those girls are amazing.

00:02:20.140 What is the name of this tequila?

00:02:21.880 Copal is the name of the tequila.

00:02:23.400 Why is it called Copal?

00:02:24.260 Can we try a little?

00:02:26.140 Cheers.

00:02:26.200 Cheers.

00:02:26.320 So I'm going straight.

00:02:27.920 Yeah.

00:02:28.220 I'm doing it a little bit.

00:02:29.240 One rock.

00:02:29.480 Frizzle and Italian.

00:02:30.820 It's a tequila Negroni.

00:02:31.800 You've always been one of my, we call you a fancy man around my circles.

00:02:38.940 I mean, tell me that's not a delicious tequila.

00:02:41.200 It's a delicious tequila.

00:02:42.080 Part of the reason, you actually are part of the reason I created Copal because I was hanging

00:02:47.520 in LA with all of my conservative friends and you all drink whiskey and you all drink

00:02:53.540 bourbon and it's always brown liquid.

00:02:55.960 And I was like, I wonder, would these guys try tequila?

00:03:00.360 And I started introducing tequila to the conservatives and they all started being a little more,

00:03:05.980 I would say, classically liberal.

00:03:08.060 Yeah.

00:03:08.720 Yeah.

00:03:09.120 That's the most classically liberal thing about me.

00:03:11.120 And it's nice.

00:03:12.140 We're filming this thing at like noon or something.

00:03:14.080 Yeah.

00:03:14.340 One o'clock.

00:03:14.740 So it's not earlier in the day.

00:03:16.340 We haven't day drank together since yesterday.

00:03:18.100 I know.

00:03:18.440 This is really incredible.

00:03:19.480 It's amazing.

00:03:20.040 No, it's a beautifully well done, exquisite tequila made the right way.

00:03:24.260 It's light.

00:03:24.640 It's a reposado.

00:03:25.400 So age three months.

00:03:26.320 Every bottle has original artwork.

00:03:29.160 We AI printed the bottles.

00:03:30.600 So the artwork, every single bottle is unique.

00:03:33.180 Has a different.

00:03:33.840 Oh, that's cool.

00:03:34.520 Yeah.

00:03:34.720 And it's just nice and light.

00:03:37.220 You're not going to get hungover and you're going to feel good.

00:03:40.320 Have a great time.

00:03:41.180 People will like you more if you are drinking Copal.

00:03:44.120 That's a promise.

00:03:44.920 Do you sell a product, my friend?

00:03:46.440 No, I do.

00:03:46.740 Come on.

00:03:47.080 It's your show.

00:03:47.660 It actually happens to go very well with your product.

00:03:51.620 Yes.

00:03:51.740 Do you want something a little heavy, a little light?

00:03:53.540 What do you want?

00:03:54.580 I should probably go light.

00:03:56.260 Maybe you want to tell the people about our experiences smoking cigars together.

00:04:01.000 Yes.

00:04:01.100 I was trying to think.

00:04:01.700 They've been rather painful for me.

00:04:02.860 The last time I saw you, okay, I'll take the two.

00:04:04.880 Do you want the Gordo?

00:04:05.800 That's like a gigantic, it's six by six, a huge cigar.

00:04:08.580 Let's not.

00:04:09.220 No, okay.

00:04:09.740 This is the daytime.

00:04:10.540 Okay.

00:04:10.960 All right.

00:04:12.200 I'm trying to think.

00:04:12.980 The last time we had a cigar together, this was the goodbye to L.A. party.

00:04:16.660 I'm still missing you over that.

00:04:18.140 Yeah, I was happy to flee.

00:04:19.400 Here you are.

00:04:19.740 Give you the nice little light one.

00:04:20.700 I'll cut you too.

00:04:21.520 Yeah.

00:04:21.980 So we were there.

00:04:22.760 It was the leave in L.A. party.

00:04:24.060 It was me, you, Rue, Dennis Prager.

00:04:26.940 Yeah.

00:04:27.280 Adam Carolla was there.

00:04:28.580 Yep.

00:04:29.100 And everyone's smoking.

00:04:30.500 Adam was like ripping cigs.

00:04:31.900 We're having cigars.

00:04:32.640 And I actually don't think you were smoking anything.

00:04:35.200 No, I brought all of you people to my house.

00:04:37.460 Yeah.

00:04:37.760 Fed you lots of Wagyu.

00:04:40.440 Like lamb or something.

00:04:41.420 No, no, no.

00:04:41.720 It was very good.

00:04:42.300 Whatever it was.

00:04:42.880 It was a Wagyu.

00:04:43.920 It might have been a Wagyu.

00:04:44.680 I think it was a Wagyu tri-tip, if I'm not mistaken.

00:04:46.880 There might have been a little lamb thrown in there as well.

00:04:48.960 And you guys all started lighting up all your crazy things.

00:04:52.440 And I, listen, I'll do this for you.

00:04:57.040 I'm going to do this for you.

00:04:58.100 Thank you.

00:04:58.360 And give it my all.

00:05:00.260 Thank you.

00:05:00.520 I'm just not much of a smoke guy.

00:05:02.680 But you're drinking some tequila.

00:05:04.760 Yeah.

00:05:05.320 It's nice.

00:05:06.320 I find it's really nice.

00:05:07.680 This is, I don't like this cutter.

00:05:08.640 Like you, I do a little of this.

00:05:10.240 Yeah.

00:05:10.440 Like all George Burns.

00:05:11.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:12.240 A little Groucho Marx.

00:05:13.200 You don't even have to light it.

00:05:14.360 Okay.

00:05:14.640 Okay, now are you prepared for this game?

00:05:17.820 You know the rules?

00:05:18.840 I know that it involves a lot of yes or no questions.

00:05:22.080 And they're going to flip the table occasionally and we're going to see what happens.

00:05:25.000 See, even that right there, I'm going to do it wrong.

00:05:27.560 I hope you.

00:05:28.300 So keep it level with the ground.

00:05:30.080 Level with the ground.

00:05:30.740 A lot of guys do this and they burn their whole thing.

00:05:32.740 Got it.

00:05:33.140 Parallel.

00:05:33.640 Yeah.

00:05:33.940 Parallel with the ground.

00:05:34.800 I'm just going to puff.

00:05:35.580 I'm just going to puff.

00:05:36.160 Just puff.

00:05:36.420 Just puff.

00:05:36.940 Okay.

00:05:37.340 Like a juice box.

00:05:38.180 No, don't tip it down.

00:05:39.220 Keep it up.

00:05:39.740 There you go.

00:05:40.400 All right.

00:05:41.060 Yeah, there you go.

00:05:41.820 You're like a pro.

00:05:43.000 All right.

00:05:43.760 There you go.

00:05:45.120 Did you ever smoke cigarettes or anything?

00:05:46.360 Wait, I don't inhale, right?

00:05:47.660 Do not inhale.

00:05:48.520 That's the thing.

00:05:49.240 I already inhaled once.

00:05:50.140 Yeah.

00:05:50.700 I feel good.

00:05:51.500 That's the thing.

00:05:52.320 If you start out smoking cigarettes or pot or meth or whatever, then it's harder for

00:05:57.140 you not to inhale.

00:05:58.260 It's interesting you went right to the meth there.

00:05:59.700 Yeah.

00:06:00.140 Well, I mean, it's a progression.

00:06:01.640 Look, I was in college.

00:06:02.220 I smoked some pot, but cigarettes.

00:06:03.880 You guys asked me before because they asked me about this.

00:06:05.700 I have, if you took the entire amount of puffs of cigarettes that I've ever had in my entire

00:06:10.680 life, I think it may be, maybe you're going to get one cigarette.

00:06:12.880 One cigarette?

00:06:13.700 Oh, that's good.

00:06:14.520 That's all you need.

00:06:15.540 So you don't inhale.

00:06:17.180 Don't inhale.

00:06:17.480 So you just, and then it's just there.

00:06:19.240 So basically you got to pretend you're Bill Clinton.

00:06:21.040 Like you give me an intern on my lap right now, get me on the phone with Trent Lott.

00:06:25.040 I'll know what to do.

00:06:26.060 I thought Monica Lewinsky was not quite your type.

00:06:28.120 Is that?

00:06:28.980 I'll make it work for the Michael Bowles program.

00:06:32.020 The other thing you can do, breathe it out your nose a little.

00:06:34.280 Okay.

00:06:34.480 You know, it's called retro hailing.

00:06:37.240 Give me a little of this.

00:06:39.740 Just a little bit, just a little touch.

00:06:41.660 Just a little, just a little chocolatey taste.

00:06:43.440 It's nice.

00:06:44.240 And you're okay putting something like that in your mouth that you feel like it's...

00:06:48.120 Speaking of.

00:06:50.320 Yeah.

00:06:50.840 Sometimes to quote George Burns.

00:06:52.320 I just know how you people are.

00:06:53.700 Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

00:06:55.840 It's just a cigar.

00:06:56.260 Okay.

00:06:56.620 All right.

00:06:56.980 I go first.

00:06:57.740 Yes.

00:06:57.960 Is the real reason the intellectual dark web fell apart because Michael Knowles was not invited to join?

00:07:05.720 Good question.

00:07:06.840 It's starting out strong.

00:07:07.860 You're going to say no.

00:07:19.420 You said no.

00:07:20.060 What the heck?

00:07:20.540 Why did it fall apart?

00:07:21.060 I've never had that much constant eye contact.

00:07:24.320 That was jarring, actually, especially with the smoke right there.

00:07:27.400 It was very weird.

00:07:28.780 Why did it really fall apart?

00:07:30.220 It fell apart, I would say, because we...

00:07:32.540 It's hard to remember what the internet was like at that time.

00:07:35.660 We were still at the beginning, in some sense, of like the political internet, right?

00:07:39.920 It was Jordan Peterson, obviously, was on that incredible rise that he still is riding.

00:07:45.320 He was like a rocket ship like this.

00:07:47.620 Sam Harris was hugely popular already.

00:07:50.040 Then you had the Eric and Brett Weinstein, who were like science dorks that really came out of nowhere,

00:07:56.620 that suddenly were famous.

00:07:58.260 You had me.

00:07:58.720 I was kind of in the middle of it because I was born in the internet like you were.

00:08:01.840 So we all had these...

00:08:02.540 And you were a sign of the times because you had been on the left pretty prominently,

00:08:07.440 like Young Turks and stuff, and then moved where the right was at that time,

00:08:11.420 which was classically liberal.

00:08:13.200 And so you were like an avatar of the whole culture, basically.

00:08:16.260 You know that meme that Elon puts up every now and again about the stick figure?

00:08:20.460 Yeah, yeah.

00:08:21.420 That was you.

00:08:21.780 That's me.

00:08:22.100 I'm the stick figure.

00:08:23.120 I'm the stick figure.

00:08:24.200 Right.

00:08:24.440 But I think it really fell apart because we just...

00:08:26.780 We had a dinner one night.

00:08:27.920 There's a famous picture, actually, of me and Rogan and Sam Harris and Jordan and Brett.

00:08:33.460 Oh, and Ben was there.

00:08:34.520 Ben was there, right, yeah, yeah.

00:08:34.900 We were at Boa's Steakhouse that I'm sure you've been to in L.A.

00:08:38.480 And we were trying to figure out what it was.

00:08:41.200 And we were like, is this a podcast network?

00:08:43.160 Are we a road touring group?

00:08:44.380 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:44.800 Are we a sperm bank?

00:08:46.140 We were like, what the hell are we?

00:08:48.520 And you're like the sperm bank one.

00:08:50.900 If it was a sperm bank, we would have got you a bar.

00:08:52.520 You are, certainly.

00:08:53.180 And we just couldn't.

00:08:55.440 Look, at the end of the day, you know, like Sam is like, he just wanted to be Sam.

00:09:00.220 He didn't want to be a team on a team.

00:09:02.620 I like being on a team.

00:09:03.440 Like, I like passing when I'm playing basketball.

00:09:05.240 I want to be on a team.

00:09:06.440 Jordan was a star, but willing to be on a team.

00:09:09.080 And it was just competing interests over time.

00:09:11.360 Yeah, yeah, it did.

00:09:12.140 Everyone seems to have just kind of, there's this moment, it all met up.

00:09:15.340 Kind of like the whole culture.

00:09:16.400 It met up in 2016, and then just different things were pulling in different directions.

00:09:19.960 You know what, truly, like joking aside for a second.

00:09:21.800 What I learned mostly was that you do not associate with Michael Knowles publicly.

00:09:26.420 And the second thing that I learned was that it's hard to keep a band together.

00:09:30.760 And that really is the truth.

00:09:31.860 Why does any band break up and then maybe get back to, oh, like over the years, a lot of

00:09:35.520 us have reconnected.

00:09:36.440 Some of us don't talk anymore.

00:09:37.840 Some of us do.

00:09:38.900 And it's like, that's what it is.

00:09:40.080 You're all going for something, but you're not always going for the exact same thing.

00:09:43.280 No, yeah.

00:09:43.920 It's that and Yoko and George had a thing for Ringo's wife.

00:09:47.980 It was, you know, I'm not, I don't know if it's going to come up on the cards.

00:09:51.320 Don't care for the Beatles.

00:09:52.800 Really?

00:09:53.060 You're more of a Wings fan.

00:09:54.260 Me too.

00:09:54.800 I do like Wings, actually.

00:09:56.120 I don't care.

00:09:57.940 It's a lot of noise.

00:09:59.140 If you want me just to listen to competing sounds constantly, I'll give my three-year-old

00:10:03.580 a drum set and a xylophone and we'll go out and we'll party.

00:10:06.660 You throw on a little ram.

00:10:07.840 You throw on a little, yeah.

00:10:09.460 Listen to what the man says.

00:10:10.600 Okay, that's fair.

00:10:11.520 I like doo-wop.

00:10:12.320 You're up.

00:10:12.840 All right.

00:10:13.280 Did female MMA get so popular because it gave America's most violent romantic pairing,

00:10:21.760 lesbian couples, a professional outlet?

00:10:30.020 You have to answer how I would.

00:10:31.480 Yes, I understand.

00:10:32.320 I understand the game.

00:10:33.220 I was trying to explain it to myself.

00:10:34.280 I've been here for seven hours receiving the tutorial.

00:10:38.780 You've selected your answer already?

00:10:42.060 Got it wrong.

00:10:43.640 The premise is flawed.

00:10:44.820 It's not popular.

00:10:45.800 Does anyone really want...

00:10:47.440 I love Gina Carano.

00:10:48.660 She's great.

00:10:48.820 Oh, you just went deep on the question.

00:10:50.140 Yeah, nobody wants...

00:10:51.000 I just went to UFC the other night because Jeremy's Razors was promoting...

00:10:54.640 It was sponsoring it.

00:10:55.700 Yeah.

00:10:55.800 And I go and the minute I walk in, it's two women beating each other and I went to the bar.

00:11:00.200 I can't watch that.

00:11:01.060 That's disgusting.

00:11:01.660 I don't want to see that.

00:11:02.500 I want to see ladies, but lesbians do punch each other.

00:11:05.720 I'm not saying they're all lesbians.

00:11:06.900 I'm just saying at separate bar, lesbians fight each other.

00:11:10.760 Years ago, way before we knew each other, I had a show on Sirius XM.

00:11:15.060 This is around 2010.

00:11:16.440 And we used to do a weekly segment about lesbian on lesbian crime.

00:11:20.220 There's a tremendous amount of it.

00:11:22.060 These women are kicking the crap out of each other.

00:11:23.980 Why?

00:11:24.780 And they're not being paid for it.

00:11:26.020 Yeah.

00:11:26.560 Why?

00:11:28.100 I mean...

00:11:28.400 Could you live with a woman?

00:11:29.280 Yeah.

00:11:29.500 You want to get into the mind of a lesbian?

00:11:31.180 Yeah.

00:11:31.460 Come on.

00:11:31.880 Yeah.

00:11:32.920 Because do men...

00:11:35.640 Do gay guys beat each other up?

00:11:38.860 Not...

00:11:39.340 Not like lesbians do.

00:11:40.480 Not without paying.

00:11:41.340 No, yeah.

00:11:43.980 But it does seem like it is a lesbian thing.

00:11:46.880 Lesbians seem more violent towards the lesbian.

00:11:50.200 I wonder why.

00:11:51.200 I don't know.

00:11:52.120 I went to a lesbian bar once.

00:11:53.860 It was called The Cubby Hole in New York City.

00:11:56.400 You were frequently there, weren't you?

00:11:57.480 Oh, constant.

00:11:58.000 I was a bartender.

00:11:58.480 And I was...

00:11:59.060 It was made very clear to me, we don't like your kind here.

00:12:02.420 We don't want men here.

00:12:03.500 It doesn't matter if you're straight or gay.

00:12:04.460 Yeah, because you'd think being a part of the rainbow...

00:12:06.740 No, but they don't.

00:12:07.420 But they don't.

00:12:07.840 It's almost like the gay guy is the opposite of the lesbian.

00:12:09.440 The gay guy is the antithesis of the lesbian.

00:12:11.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:12.580 Wow.

00:12:13.620 All right.

00:12:14.140 Well, anyway...

00:12:14.760 And they shall never meet.

00:12:15.700 No.

00:12:16.480 They have no occasion to.

00:12:17.860 No.

00:12:18.020 Other than at The Cubby Hole.

00:12:19.040 Okay.

00:12:19.900 I'm up.

00:12:20.820 Who's the host of this show?

00:12:21.580 I know.

00:12:21.940 It should be you.

00:12:23.200 Your Wikipedia says,

00:12:24.980 Rubin has provided a platform for political extremists such as far-right influencer Paul

00:12:29.620 Joseph Watson, great replacement conspiracy theorist Lauren Southern, white nationalist

00:12:34.260 Stefan Molyneux, and Islamophobes like Tommy Robinson.

00:12:39.920 Are...

00:12:40.100 Oh, it actually...

00:12:40.680 I was waiting for the punchline of that.

00:12:41.880 No, it's actually a serious question.

00:12:43.440 Are there any interviews you regret doing?

00:12:45.500 Oh, that's interesting, rather than whether that was true or not.

00:12:49.420 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:50.060 Oh, are there any...

00:13:06.700 Hmm.

00:13:08.360 This is very Larry David Curb.

00:13:10.620 No.

00:13:15.400 Correct.

00:13:15.960 No.

00:13:16.240 Your whole book is don't burn, don't censor anyone.

00:13:19.440 Yeah.

00:13:19.940 So there are none, if you had to pick one?

00:13:22.200 It's not to say there aren't people I've had on the show that I really dislike now or

00:13:27.100 that really went crazy or who I was friends with, who now I almost consider enemies or

00:13:33.680 any of that.

00:13:34.800 But the question was, do I regret interviewing them?

00:13:37.860 And the answer to that is no.

00:13:39.820 I have treated every, however thousands, however many thousands of interviews I've

00:13:43.340 done, I've treated all my guests exactly the same.

00:13:45.600 I've learned sometimes, you know, the nice way to learn, you know, is when you actually

00:13:49.000 learn from your guests.

00:13:49.920 Yeah, yeah.

00:13:49.980 Like they're teaching you something along the way.

00:13:51.860 And that's what makes it fun to be an interviewer.

00:13:53.740 But sometimes you learn when the guest doesn't know what they're saying either, and you learn

00:13:57.140 that way.

00:13:58.560 But I would say, I don't regret any of...

00:14:01.500 There are ones that you don't enjoy, that's for sure.

00:14:03.300 There are times when people just...

00:14:04.020 What was the least enjoyable?

00:14:04.980 Oh.

00:14:05.820 Like you want me to really throw up a specific...

00:14:07.280 Yeah, I want to hear.

00:14:08.360 I want the tea.

00:14:09.000 Oh, I'll tell you, the least enjoyable for sure, absolutely.

00:14:12.060 I think I've said this publicly maybe once before.

00:14:14.500 David Frum was the most unenjoyable interview I've ever done.

00:14:18.260 David Frum, Bush speech writer, wrote the Axis of Evil.

00:14:21.540 Axis of Evil speech for Bush.

00:14:22.380 He's like a kind of a right winger.

00:14:23.780 Now he's kind of like a slib, center left, something.

00:14:26.540 He was at the...

00:14:27.880 When Trump derangement syndrome was like hardcore, hardcore, when Trump had become president.

00:14:34.380 It's actually related to the IDW question.

00:14:36.440 Sam Harris was really pissed at me because I was supporting Trump and he wasn't.

00:14:41.400 And I said, Sam, he called me one day and he was really angry and he's mindful meditation

00:14:45.140 Sam, so to hear him angry and saying f*** every now and again, I was like, whoa, this

00:14:49.140 is something.

00:14:50.000 And he goes, you've got to put more people on the show that are going against Trump.

00:14:53.400 You're putting all these Trump supporters on.

00:14:54.740 I said, Sam, whoever you want, I'll put on the show.

00:14:56.420 I said, you're welcome anytime.

00:14:57.560 You can come on.

00:14:57.860 No, and he came on many times.

00:14:59.180 So whoever you want.

00:14:59.940 He said, put on David Frum.

00:15:02.020 I brought David Frum on and I thought he was the most inauthentic.

00:15:07.980 Yes.

00:15:08.300 I don't think I've ever met him.

00:15:09.080 Every moment in the hour, I was completely unconvinced that he believed his arguments.

00:15:15.140 And he also didn't strike me as a conservative.

00:15:17.600 And as I was waking up to conservatism, I was like, wait a minute, why am I more conservative

00:15:23.060 than this guy?

00:15:23.860 Than the Bush speechwriter.

00:15:24.960 And also because Sam told me to put him on as the principled conservative.

00:15:28.640 Right.

00:15:28.900 So wait, I got the liberal guy telling me to put on the principled conservative and I'm

00:15:33.560 more conservative than him.

00:15:34.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:34.960 And subsequently, he's gone after me a lot and all that kind of thing.

00:15:38.020 He writes in The Atlantic.

00:15:39.160 Yeah.

00:15:39.860 Okay.

00:15:40.520 Wow.

00:15:41.000 Yeah.

00:15:41.760 You did it.

00:15:42.480 You blew up David Frum.

00:15:44.920 That's it.

00:15:45.620 Okay, okay.

00:15:46.500 I'm going to have to move on without the Frum.

00:15:48.160 It's my turn.

00:15:48.940 It's your turn.

00:15:49.580 Yeah.

00:15:50.140 I have a very good handle of this game.

00:15:52.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:15:52.340 I think I'm going to reset right there.

00:15:56.300 Ooh.

00:15:56.700 Did the assassin who shot Trump act alone?

00:16:02.660 I say he did not.

00:16:23.120 Interesting.

00:16:23.560 I am not saying it was a secret cabal of CIA and Secret Service and the Illuminati.

00:16:29.900 I'm not saying that.

00:16:31.020 Though it might have been.

00:16:33.760 The fact that we don't know anything about him is not plausible in the internet age.

00:16:42.260 The fact that his politics were perfectly ambiguous.

00:16:45.580 He was registered Republican but had only ever donated Democrat is very strange.

00:16:50.460 He reportedly had another phone.

00:16:53.320 That's a little bit of a strange story.

00:16:56.340 The security failure was implausible.

00:16:59.300 It was very bad and implausible.

00:17:00.720 Insane.

00:17:01.140 I mean, the incline roof thing.

00:17:02.640 The incline roof thing and the timing.

00:17:06.240 This was the last chance to take out Trump before the Republican National Convention.

00:17:10.880 If the guy were just a total nut, he wouldn't have had the sophistication to plan out the timing that way.

00:17:17.840 If the guy were totally incompetent, he couldn't have gotten that far.

00:17:24.380 There must have been more to the story, I think.

00:17:28.960 So the reason I think I got your answer wrong is not because I disagree with any of that.

00:17:35.040 But you generally, as we've watched a lot of people in the internet age.

00:17:40.440 Get a little fringy.

00:17:41.240 Get a little, just go off on every adventure.

00:17:43.720 And every conspiracy theory or every adventure is equal in nature and equally plausible and everything else.

00:17:49.360 Not to say that the mainstream doesn't lie because they lie about everything.

00:17:51.980 So everybody is a conspiracy theorist to some extent, right?

00:17:55.760 That just means you're usually a little early on.

00:17:58.280 But my general take on you is that you don't go down those roads too far.

00:18:03.380 So I had a feeling you were just going to say, ah, this is one of those things where it's just like a crazy kid.

00:18:09.440 But yes, all of the things that you said there, like something's very bizarre.

00:18:14.040 And I actually hadn't thought about it much until, you know, it was obviously just the anniversary of it.

00:18:17.400 They start showing you the picture of the kid again.

00:18:19.460 And you're like, yeah, what?

00:18:20.500 Why do we know nothing?

00:18:21.620 Yeah.

00:18:21.980 About any of this.

00:18:22.780 And I've been on an incline roof that has like a 2% incline and I've done it.

00:18:26.620 Yeah, it's okay.

00:18:27.660 Well, that's amazing.

00:18:28.540 You're not a trained, you know.

00:18:29.660 No, no, no.

00:18:30.260 I'm trained in nothing.

00:18:30.640 Secret service agent.

00:18:31.700 Bum knee.

00:18:32.360 Yes.

00:18:32.600 And I'm up there.

00:18:32.820 And you still did.

00:18:33.940 I've, one time I visited the White House, I brought a box of cigars.

00:18:37.780 I bring a box of cigars on a lot of places.

00:18:39.260 I go, I brought a box of cigars.

00:18:40.220 To get a box of cigars into the perimeter of the White House is almost impossible.

00:18:49.400 That's funny because during the Biden years, I could get Coke in and out.

00:18:52.020 Yeah, no, the Coke is a little easier.

00:18:53.800 You know, the storage is tough.

00:18:55.160 You know, the ways to get it in.

00:18:56.260 But I go in with the box of cigars.

00:18:59.020 It's very hard.

00:18:59.900 You've been, forget about the White House.

00:19:01.060 Forget about Washington, D.C.

00:19:02.740 Anywhere there's a presidential perimeter.

00:19:04.400 Of course.

00:19:04.880 It is crazy.

00:19:05.940 One time I was supposed to do a podcast at the CPAC with Ted Cruz.

00:19:10.500 We were scheduled.

00:19:13.260 Mike Pence, then vice president, decided to have a cup of coffee on one of the floors.

00:19:17.560 The building was locked down.

00:19:18.940 I almost missed my show with Senator Cruz.

00:19:21.460 Then head of the RNC, Rhonda McDaniel, had to come out, try to pull me through with Secret Service.

00:19:26.980 They still basically wouldn't let me through.

00:19:30.240 Hard to believe that that guy just sauntered up to the roof on that day.

00:19:35.340 No one noticing.

00:19:37.360 Very strange.

00:19:38.260 By the way, speaking of security, I owe you one, my friend.

00:19:40.500 I'm going to give you public props right now.

00:19:43.060 Because if you remember, shortly after the incident we're talking about, at the Trump MSG,

00:19:48.860 what they called the big Nazi Hitler rally.

00:19:51.280 Thousands and thousands of people outside.

00:19:53.300 It's utter mayhem.

00:19:55.100 Nobody knows how to get in.

00:19:56.600 It's absolute midtown New York City.

00:19:58.440 Even the VIP section, there's no, it's chaos.

00:20:01.460 Chaos.

00:20:02.280 Chaos.

00:20:03.000 Yes.

00:20:03.780 And I bump into Michael Knowles.

00:20:05.680 He did.

00:20:06.280 And he's got the Daily Wire security team with him.

00:20:09.700 And we punched people.

00:20:11.380 We're kicking, stabbing.

00:20:13.640 Stabbing.

00:20:14.160 It did not matter.

00:20:15.460 People would try to come up to you and touch you.

00:20:17.100 Oh, Michael Knowles, I love you.

00:20:18.080 Chop their arm off.

00:20:18.780 All of the MMA stuff, the lesbian stuff you love.

00:20:23.000 And we got right in there.

00:20:23.900 Great seats.

00:20:24.460 We did.

00:20:24.800 You're right.

00:20:25.220 You're right.

00:20:25.760 I think you have to light me up here.

00:20:26.700 Very, you know, it's always nice to feel like a cool guy.

00:20:29.300 And that was one.

00:20:29.740 Okay, ash that a little bit.

00:20:30.720 Ash that.

00:20:31.040 Ash that.

00:20:31.140 Ash that.

00:20:31.540 Oh, in the ashtray.

00:20:32.660 Just a little ash.

00:20:33.340 There we go.

00:20:34.080 In the ashtray, old man.

00:20:35.520 Yes.

00:20:35.960 There you go.

00:20:40.080 There you go.

00:20:41.460 Okay.

00:20:42.340 All right.

00:20:42.620 I'm starting to get it.

00:20:43.300 That's good.

00:20:44.100 You're doing well.

00:20:44.880 Yeah.

00:20:46.000 Watch this video first.

00:20:49.060 You need a beginning, a mover that isn't contingent or physical.

00:20:53.720 Mm-hmm.

00:20:54.540 Do any of those move you toward a God that is, that has, isn't just an unconscious thing,

00:21:00.980 as you just said, but has a teleology, a purpose behind it?

00:21:05.500 Not really.

00:21:06.960 Look how young you look.

00:21:07.880 We've got to get a couple drinks in here in this case.

00:21:09.600 We've both glowed up since then.

00:21:10.900 We have.

00:21:11.180 That's what the kids say.

00:21:12.500 The glow up.

00:21:13.120 You know about the glow up?

00:21:13.680 Yeah.

00:21:13.920 Well, look, we were both kind of pudgy then.

00:21:15.540 Yeah.

00:21:16.160 Now we're, now we've trimmed down.

00:21:17.860 Jordan got me on the carnivore.

00:21:19.160 Did he?

00:21:19.700 That's it.

00:21:20.400 Yeah.

00:21:20.800 Wow.

00:21:21.080 Yeah, that's pre-Jordan.

00:21:22.180 Wow.

00:21:23.420 Oh, so I already can get with the question.

00:21:24.560 Here's the question.

00:21:25.180 I think I got it.

00:21:26.280 Do you now believe in the God of the Bible?

00:21:30.100 I moved my hand too quick.

00:21:31.520 Oh, wait.

00:21:31.820 Wait a minute.

00:21:33.460 Am I clear?

00:21:35.280 Oh, I see.

00:21:36.100 I see.

00:21:36.440 Got it.

00:21:37.000 Okay.

00:21:39.660 Clear mile.

00:21:40.420 Mine's off too.

00:21:41.060 Okay.

00:21:41.920 Do you believe in the God of the Bible?

00:21:53.500 You do.

00:21:54.680 Wow.

00:21:55.240 I'm shocked that you got that wrong after watching this adventure I've been on.

00:21:59.380 Okay.

00:21:59.700 So two things.

00:22:00.520 Yeah.

00:22:00.880 I'm shocked.

00:22:01.720 One, I thought I saw your finger pushing.

00:22:04.460 So.

00:22:04.820 So you cheated on the God question.

00:22:07.440 But also I thought you would say something like, I believe now in a personal God, a conscious

00:22:14.120 God, not merely some deistic kind of force, but I'm not totally sold on organized religion

00:22:20.380 and the proscriptions and commandments of the Bible.

00:22:24.500 I thought you were going to give some like really smart, squishy answer.

00:22:27.760 Well, you whittled it into then complete organized religion and all of the prescription and all

00:22:32.300 of those things.

00:22:32.840 And I can see why there's a reason to do that.

00:22:35.760 But you would say, but look, forget about how I whittled it.

00:22:38.120 There is a-

00:22:38.420 You would say you believe in the God of the Bible.

00:22:39.920 Yes.

00:22:40.280 Okay.

00:22:40.520 Yes.

00:22:40.960 I think at this point, I'm the ripe old age of 49 years old.

00:22:45.780 There's no, in some sense, there's no way around it that's going to make the world work.

00:22:52.340 And the more we veer, the more we veer away from that, the more we see chaos, period.

00:23:00.480 Yes.

00:23:00.660 So I would say it's a similar answer in a much less-

00:23:04.620 Well, hold on.

00:23:05.160 Hold on.

00:23:05.680 You just said a thing that makes me, I sort of think I'm sitting next to Jordan here or

00:23:10.720 something.

00:23:11.600 You only would have let me finish my-

00:23:13.500 Okay.

00:23:13.740 All right.

00:23:14.040 Sorry.

00:23:14.200 Sorry.

00:23:14.760 I interrupted.

00:23:15.480 Go on.

00:23:15.900 Go on.

00:23:16.140 No, no.

00:23:16.360 I mean, that's literally what I was going to say.

00:23:17.620 I'm giving you a Jordan Peterson-esque answer to a question.

00:23:20.760 Obviously, I've been very influenced by Jordan over the years.

00:23:23.440 Jordan, Jordan on the belief question, which he would get more than anything else.

00:23:27.380 What do you mean by belief?

00:23:28.640 And that whole thing.

00:23:29.560 And people make fun of him for that.

00:23:30.600 Jordan's-

00:23:31.140 But one of the cleanest answers I've ever heard on belief is from Jordan, and I'll paraphrase

00:23:36.060 it in probably the most butchered sense.

00:23:37.860 But he always says that if you tell the truth, it will ultimately be the best outcome of anything.

00:23:42.740 It doesn't mean it's going to be good, and it certainly may not be good immediately, but

00:23:46.100 it will be the best of all outcomes because, in essence, you're adding order to the world.

00:23:51.000 But believing that in and of itself is a leap of faith, and that means you are a believer.

00:23:55.660 Believing that the truth for truth's sake, that the truth will ultimately lead to the best

00:24:00.140 thing, not necessarily the most expedient thing or anything else.

00:24:02.760 There's no real reason to believe that.

00:24:04.380 Yeah, believing that there is such a thing as the truth requires certain premises that

00:24:08.660 are just taken as axioms.

00:24:10.280 Right.

00:24:10.440 So to me, that is enough of a belief, that is enough of a jump, a leap of faith, let's

00:24:16.560 say, that that then will, I would say, angle you towards God.

00:24:21.760 Yes.

00:24:22.140 And then I would say that in the specific way that you asked the question, I would say that

00:24:28.500 there are rules around the universe that make things basically good or bad.

00:24:35.740 Am I a perfect person within all of those things?

00:24:38.820 Obviously not.

00:24:39.740 I don't know any perfect person within all of those things.

00:24:42.780 And I know many people that profess to be religious that often are the most diametrically

00:24:49.620 opposed in their action.

00:24:50.900 Simple or even simple.

00:24:51.360 Everyone's simple, but you mean even hypocritical.

00:24:53.120 I find in a bizarre, and you know this, in the world that we live in, where we're around

00:24:57.760 public people who are telling you what they think all the time, and then you see what they're

00:25:01.120 doing privately, or you find out that they're cheating and all of these other things.

00:25:04.060 And so you have to be able to pack those two things together.

00:25:08.120 I am a human being that is hopefully trying to do the best that you can and trying to

00:25:14.020 live a life that, you know, again, as Jordan would say, that you want to build Jacob's

00:25:18.040 ladder and you want to build it for the next generation and everything.

00:25:20.800 And then also know that you're a human being who's flawed and all of those things.

00:25:23.940 But I see kind of no way around it.

00:25:25.820 So, okay.

00:25:26.420 So then, yes, sure.

00:25:28.440 Yeah.

00:25:28.620 I really thought you would have got me there because we've been talking about this for

00:25:31.560 a decade.

00:25:31.820 It's most, yes.

00:25:32.880 No, I was inclined to say yes until I thought I was cheating and I thought I saw your answer.

00:25:36.820 But then, do you mean, when you say the Bible, you're ethnically Jewish, not religiously

00:25:41.940 Jewish, but are you, do you mean-

00:25:43.220 Well, I would say I'm religious.

00:25:44.160 I don't think it makes that much of a difference when it comes to Jews.

00:25:46.820 It's a tribe.

00:25:47.080 Because it's a tribe.

00:25:48.180 It's a culture.

00:25:49.000 It's a religion.

00:25:49.540 It's a history.

00:25:49.960 So, you're talking about what Christians call the Old Testament.

00:25:53.240 The Old Testament.

00:25:53.840 You wouldn't yet believe in the New Testament.

00:25:56.780 Or maybe you would.

00:25:58.040 No, it's not the tradition that I come from.

00:26:00.520 So, I would say I believe in the God that my father and my father's father and my father's

00:26:06.360 father's father.

00:26:07.340 But if your dad were an Amorite, would you believe in Baal or no?

00:26:12.180 Well, the truest answer that I can give you on that is maybe.

00:26:17.440 Yeah, okay.

00:26:17.960 Right?

00:26:18.380 Like, we all come from something.

00:26:20.860 Yeah, yeah.

00:26:21.120 So, it's not a coincidence that most Christians come from Christians.

00:26:24.640 It's not a coincidence that most Jews come from Jews.

00:26:26.880 It's not a coincidence that most Muslims come from Muslims, although they might kill you.

00:26:29.660 Yeah, and most Buddhists are actually, like, white lady Jewish women in Westchester who

00:26:34.520 just, like, wanted to do yoga or something.

00:26:37.140 They just took one too many namaste classes.

00:26:40.240 And then next thing you know, they don't have anything.

00:26:42.980 But then, okay.

00:26:43.400 So, then let's just focus it on the Hebrew Bible.

00:26:46.800 Yes.

00:26:47.060 You say, I believe in this God of the Hebrew Bible.

00:26:49.000 And you believe it.

00:26:49.800 It's not just that it's a tradition.

00:26:50.900 I believe that the stories, I don't know that they are all literally true in the most

00:26:55.560 literal sense, but I think that they are eternally true.

00:26:58.660 But does God, the God of the Bible, which is the subject of the question.

00:27:03.320 Yes.

00:27:03.560 The God of the Old Testament is a real person or three distinct persons in one divine unity

00:27:09.420 from the Christian perspective, but he's a real person.

00:27:11.680 He's not just an idea that is conducive to the flourishing of society, but he is real

00:27:16.300 and he will judge you someday.

00:27:17.860 And he created the heavens and the earth.

00:27:20.020 And take out all the other details.

00:27:21.440 You think all that's real.

00:27:22.180 I would say basically, yes.

00:27:27.120 That's great.

00:27:28.060 Basically, yes.

00:27:28.360 But then, then this is the question.

00:27:29.980 And this is where, this is the next step of it.

00:27:32.320 Yeah.

00:27:32.440 Okay.

00:27:32.600 Well, if you think that's true.

00:27:33.740 Yeah.

00:27:34.240 True.

00:27:34.800 Yeah.

00:27:35.100 Then it's not just a matter of, well, you know, my dad was like kind of Jewish.

00:27:38.900 Yeah.

00:27:39.020 His dad was kind of Jewish.

00:27:40.180 Yeah.

00:27:40.440 Then it's, no, you're saying, I think this is true.

00:27:43.000 And just like, I think it's true that it could be raining outside and I'm going to take

00:27:46.760 an umbrella because of that, regardless of whether my father ever owned an umbrella.

00:27:49.740 Yeah.

00:27:50.520 So if you think that's true, does, has that impelled you to do anything in your life?

00:27:56.060 I mean, does that impelled you to go to synagogue?

00:27:58.200 Yeah.

00:27:58.500 Is that, yeah.

00:27:59.400 We do celebrate holidays more than I did certainly when I was single, but especially now that

00:28:03.480 I have kids, there's something to hand down to them.

00:28:05.340 Does it impel you to pray?

00:28:05.960 There's something to hand down to them.

00:28:07.380 I have prayed more in the last three years than probably anytime since I was 15 years old.

00:28:14.120 You know, the follow-up question in your public life, because it's the thing, the only thing

00:28:17.520 anyone wants to talk about with you.

00:28:18.520 Yeah.

00:28:19.220 Does it raise questions to you about Leviticus 18?

00:28:23.400 Do you know, you and a good buddy of yours?

00:28:27.840 A good buddy.

00:28:28.780 A good buddy.

00:28:29.300 Yes.

00:28:29.580 It's like Gilligan and Skipper.

00:28:30.680 Your roommate.

00:28:31.500 Yeah, yeah.

00:28:31.900 Right, right.

00:28:32.840 Well, I'm pretty, if I could paraphrase for you, don't lay with a man like you lay with

00:28:37.840 a woman, but I don't lay with chicks that way.

00:28:39.400 So it's okay.

00:28:40.260 Okay.

00:28:40.600 That's a little workaround.

00:28:41.840 You know what I mean?

00:28:42.400 How about that?

00:28:45.120 Figure that one out.

00:28:46.180 Much of the Jewish tradition and in fact the Catholic tradition is delving into questions

00:28:52.400 that are sometimes border on legalism.

00:28:54.120 So there is actually, it's a very traditional-

00:28:55.400 Well, I think there's something, I actually do think that there is something to that.

00:28:59.120 Do I have a perfect answer for that question?

00:29:03.100 Do I have a perfect answer for that question outside of like a slightly, sort of clever joke

00:29:08.360 in some sense, but like slightly glib answer?

00:29:10.160 I actually don't have a perfect answer for that question.

00:29:13.680 But I do know this.

00:29:15.100 I do know that I am a good human being that is an honest human being.

00:29:19.480 No, you're not.

00:29:19.920 No, you're not.

00:29:20.440 I'm not a good, I'm not even joking.

00:29:21.740 I'm not a good human being.

00:29:23.000 I don't, do you think, you're thinking you're a good human being?

00:29:24.480 I think, yeah, I think I'm a relatively good human being.

00:29:26.400 I think you're-

00:29:27.180 What are you talking about?

00:29:27.820 You're not a good human being?

00:29:28.520 I think relative to other human beings, yeah, you're a great guy.

00:29:31.040 Yeah.

00:29:31.580 But I don't think I'm good.

00:29:33.760 I don't think I'm particularly good.

00:29:34.900 What do you mean by that?

00:29:35.800 What do you mean by that?

00:29:36.220 I mean, well-

00:29:37.160 What are you doing that is not good?

00:29:38.440 I sin constantly.

00:29:39.600 Give me one.

00:29:40.180 In my thoughts and in my words and what I've done and what I've failed to do.

00:29:42.740 Give me one.

00:29:43.200 I sometimes lose my temper, though it's rare, because I'm a Pisces.

00:29:46.240 No, no, I didn't say you're a perfect human being.

00:29:48.020 Good, good.

00:29:48.780 I think the God of the Bible tells us that the imagination of man's heart is evil from

00:29:54.800 his youth and that we sin because we're out of the garden, we ate the apple, we sin.

00:30:00.200 So we've got this kind of badness to us and in the New Testament, St. Paul says, the things

00:30:05.760 I want to do, I don't do.

00:30:07.420 The things I don't want to do, I do.

00:30:09.040 And that happens to me all the time.

00:30:10.480 Maybe you have more self-control than I do.

00:30:12.680 I'm in my thoughts.

00:30:14.460 Some guy cuts me off.

00:30:15.920 Some nice looking lady walks by.

00:30:17.580 I, I, well, again, I think we're getting a little lost on the difference between being

00:30:22.120 a perfect human being in a Petri dish versus being a human being that functions in the

00:30:27.380 world.

00:30:27.880 No, I'm saying relative, yeah.

00:30:29.000 If you told me someone cuts you off and then occasionally you just ram your car into them

00:30:33.460 and whatever and keep moving, then maybe not so good.

00:30:36.140 But within the ability, within the ability of a modern man to live a decent life, I live

00:30:44.460 a pretty decent life.

00:30:45.420 My 10th wedding anniversary is this, is in two weeks from now.

00:30:49.280 We have two incredible, incredible kids that our pediatrician is like completely blown away

00:30:54.820 by.

00:30:55.380 They're, they're barely three.

00:30:56.520 They're not even three yet, about to be three.

00:30:58.440 And she says they're basically at, at five sort of mentally and physically.

00:31:02.360 And we, because of the amount of tension and love and safety we provide for them and all

00:31:05.580 of those things.

00:31:06.100 I think the way I communicate the ideas that I care about to the world are pretty good.

00:31:09.780 Again, that's not perfect.

00:31:11.820 Do I screw up here or there?

00:31:13.500 Do I, all of those things, do I, if someone cuts me off, am I like, well, God bless you?

00:31:18.500 No, probably not.

00:31:19.500 But, but that's just the, the dynamism of being a human, I think.

00:31:25.580 Sure.

00:31:26.080 But I guess if we're talking about goodness.

00:31:28.120 Yeah.

00:31:28.400 Like, you've gotten plenty of criticism.

00:31:31.080 You get criticism all the time for, uh.

00:31:32.880 I've never heard any of it.

00:31:33.680 I, you know, once you're, once you're, once you're, once you're dead, where are you?

00:31:35.460 Yeah.

00:31:36.160 But you've gotten plenty of criticism for subjects, I'll try to be delicate about it, subjects

00:31:43.140 that you could change your mind on 10 years from now, 20 years from now, that, that even

00:31:50.260 if the spirit of the age says one thing is really good, even you could change your mind

00:31:55.280 on it.

00:31:55.500 Just like I've done things 10 years ago, 15 years ago, that I thought were, I thought

00:32:00.540 were good at the time that I don't necessarily think are good now.

00:32:03.680 Even though, even if they come out to good outcomes or whatever.

00:32:06.440 So in that world where we all do stuff like this constantly, we need some kind of atonement,

00:32:14.540 some kind of, which Judaism has and Christianity has and, you know, in sacraments and in the

00:32:19.920 crucifixion.

00:32:22.480 So we talk about the holidays.

00:32:23.760 That's great.

00:32:24.340 Or you pray or whatever.

00:32:26.960 What about the, do you depend on God in a personal way?

00:32:33.680 Do I talk to God, meaning either in my mind or through religious sacraments and practice?

00:32:41.180 Liturgical, yeah, yeah.

00:32:42.760 Yes.

00:32:43.720 Yes.

00:32:44.620 And depend on him in your, because that's a huge change from where you were 10 years ago.

00:32:48.460 Yeah.

00:32:49.460 Well, again, I think, I think at some point as you move forward in life as a evolving

00:32:55.000 person, you become, you come up against what I would say is a deeper reality than what you're

00:33:01.820 describing sort of as like the current thing.

00:33:03.660 Yes.

00:33:03.960 Yeah.

00:33:04.460 Will the current thing always change?

00:33:06.520 Three years ago, everyone put black bars on their Instagram.

00:33:09.160 I don't even remember what that was for.

00:33:10.640 Yeah, yeah.

00:33:10.780 And then there'll be something else tomorrow and there'll be something else after that and

00:33:13.660 after that and after that.

00:33:14.720 Look, I would say one of the things that not only was touring with Jordan and it was also

00:33:18.020 having kids and there were, there were a lot of things in life, but it also was that during

00:33:23.240 COVID, the people, and I'm very proud to say I never got vaxxed and I fought that whole

00:33:27.780 thing and you know, all that.

00:33:29.520 But the people that I found the sanest during COVID generally were religious because they

00:33:35.400 believed in something besides the current thing, often evangelicals.

00:33:39.160 Yeah, yeah.

00:33:39.460 And because of that, it was just another proof point for me.

00:33:43.300 So again, I do a lot of this.

00:33:44.900 I do a lot.

00:33:45.500 Look, to me, when I see people criticize Jordan around religion, I'm like, guys, if you think

00:33:49.660 the person who has brought more religious ideas.

00:33:52.260 If you think Jordan is your enemy.

00:33:53.520 If Jordan is the bad guy, then I am just not on your side.

00:33:56.660 And I don't use that kind of language that often, but I do see this from a certain set

00:33:59.760 of people on the right going after Jordan.

00:34:01.780 Sure.

00:34:02.140 And it's like, if that, if what Jordan is offering, that is the most, I think, synthesized.

00:34:06.440 We're going after you, by the way.

00:34:07.580 We're going after you.

00:34:08.380 It's like, you think Dave Rubin's the enemy?

00:34:10.160 Sure.

00:34:10.420 But you know what?

00:34:10.900 If you want to go after me, fine.

00:34:12.300 But Jordan, Jordan is different.

00:34:14.040 Jordan is, Jordan, I actually believe is in some sense a modern prophet.

00:34:17.680 And, and Jordan, if what he has provided through, through synthesizing the secular world

00:34:23.700 and the religious world in the most clear way possible, if that is not good enough for

00:34:28.500 you, then I'm sorry.

00:34:30.480 You're just not on the right side of things.

00:34:32.000 Like, you're just not.

00:34:34.160 And, and that, and I, so I would say it's good enough for me.

00:34:37.140 Hmm.

00:34:37.660 That's pretty good.

00:34:38.320 And also, it's very interesting.

00:34:39.740 No, I got one.

00:34:40.240 That, no, that, okay.

00:34:41.880 All right.

00:34:42.260 I'm still salty that I lost the point, but that's, that's a very good answer.

00:34:45.900 Okay.

00:34:46.100 You're up.

00:34:47.080 I got to clear.

00:34:48.800 And we'll clear Apple.

00:34:49.900 Okay.

00:34:50.080 Don't worry about that.

00:34:51.100 We have a video prompt, my friend.

00:34:52.740 Okay.

00:34:54.020 At a dinner party, when someone says, I will stay in Los Angeles, do you believe that?

00:34:58.080 Wow.

00:34:59.100 These guys are good.

00:34:59.980 These guys are good.

00:35:07.080 I have nothing to add to this other than you're a bastard.

00:35:15.320 When Michael Knowles lied to Dave Rubin's face about staying in California, was that technically a sin?

00:35:22.440 Wow.

00:35:23.020 Now that's a question.

00:35:24.300 Okay.

00:35:24.820 So there are a lot of presumptions being made by the producers here, but I don't want to get my answer.

00:35:33.120 Oh, I have to get what your answer is, not necessarily what the truth is.

00:35:36.600 Yeah, you got it wrong.

00:35:46.940 Yeah.

00:35:47.420 That's right.

00:35:47.760 I knew you were going to say no, but yet I still did yes anyway, because I'm sorry, my friend.

00:35:52.760 It was a lie by omission.

00:35:54.400 Listen, if I, if I, sin, if I, look, if I in the moment, I say, yeah, Dave, California, that's great and everything.

00:36:04.220 And then I go into work the next day.

00:36:06.620 Someone comes in and says, Knowles, you're moving.

00:36:10.340 And I say, oh, good, I can leave finally.

00:36:12.320 And I run out of California.

00:36:13.600 Is that a lie?

00:36:14.200 I believe that's what happened.

00:36:16.700 That, wow.

00:36:18.300 Is it?

00:36:18.560 You were at my house.

00:36:19.880 Yes.

00:36:20.280 With sweet Alyssa.

00:36:21.460 I was.

00:36:21.980 I believe that's the night we had the lamb, by the way, which was quite delicious.

00:36:24.260 That was the lamb night.

00:36:25.300 You're right.

00:36:25.760 You're right.

00:36:26.260 You're right.

00:36:26.620 You're right.

00:36:26.940 And we sat there.

00:36:28.360 Okay.

00:36:29.320 We sat there.

00:36:30.060 Here, light me up when you're doing it.

00:36:31.080 We sat there.

00:36:34.220 There you go.

00:36:35.200 There you go.

00:36:35.760 A little touch of that.

00:36:36.820 Yeah.

00:36:39.040 We sat there.

00:36:39.980 I'm sure there was tequila involved.

00:36:42.780 You were busting out the cigars.

00:36:44.300 And we said, we're going to conquer this place.

00:36:46.080 We're going to stay.

00:36:46.720 We're going to fight.

00:36:47.400 We're going to do it.

00:36:48.580 Knowles, Ruben, Ruben, Knowles.

00:36:50.040 That's the exact words.

00:36:50.940 We said Shapiro, maybe.

00:36:52.340 Maybe, no.

00:36:54.400 Next thing, you leave.

00:36:56.600 This is very exciting.

00:36:57.700 This is the first time you and your wife would come over for dinner.

00:36:59.640 We'll be friends forever.

00:37:00.820 It would be great.

00:37:01.520 The next morning.

00:37:03.420 Yeah, now I'm gone.

00:37:05.060 Gone.

00:37:05.840 Yeah.

00:37:06.080 So the question is, while you said,

00:37:10.480 something that was.

00:37:11.160 Yeah.

00:37:12.000 The question is in my heart.

00:37:14.120 In your deepest recesses.

00:37:16.360 I am.

00:37:16.820 Well, actually, to be fair,

00:37:18.960 as we're chatting about how great it'll be to take over California,

00:37:21.940 not knowing that there was this opportunity for Daily Word to leave.

00:37:25.580 I did, at that time, want to leave California.

00:37:29.160 That is true.

00:37:29.880 I wanted to.

00:37:30.740 Now, I didn't know I had this opportunity to leave.

00:37:32.500 But, yes, there is.

00:37:33.940 Look, was there.

00:37:36.280 The imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth, Dave.

00:37:38.660 I don't know what else to tell you.

00:37:40.240 I, there was a, I wanted to get out of there.

00:37:43.720 And you got out of there, too, by the way.

00:37:45.300 Except I stayed.

00:37:46.520 You did.

00:37:47.060 You did.

00:37:47.500 And fought for another year.

00:37:48.780 You did.

00:37:49.200 You did.

00:37:49.800 I campaigned to recall that evil lizard person.

00:37:53.600 You did.

00:37:53.840 And then got audited by the state three days later.

00:37:56.340 Did you really?

00:37:56.940 Yeah.

00:37:57.320 Three days later.

00:37:57.840 I didn't know that.

00:37:58.440 Yeah.

00:37:58.980 I think that was around September 14th of 21.

00:38:01.980 I was in Florida by December.

00:38:05.700 Now.

00:38:06.340 Yeah.

00:38:07.060 Had we stayed, we could, I could have, you know, depending on how bad things got, we could

00:38:13.180 have moved in together.

00:38:14.720 We could have all lived together on a compound.

00:38:17.580 We could have.

00:38:18.000 The Daily Wire office was very close to that.

00:38:19.280 It was very close.

00:38:20.040 We could have shared the same bed.

00:38:21.520 And if we had done that, it would have been a Helix mattress.

00:38:25.060 That's right, Buster.

00:38:26.400 Helix will improve your nights.

00:38:28.080 It will keep you sleeping well all night long so that you can wake up each morning ready

00:38:32.620 to be your best self.

00:38:34.080 What makes Helix different is they don't just sell you random mattress.

00:38:37.340 They match you with the perfect one for your body and sleep style.

00:38:39.960 Whether you're a side sleeper, a back sleeper, somewhere in between, they've got you covered.

00:38:43.700 All you have to do is take their sleep quiz, find your ideal match.

00:38:47.240 And when you get that match, you're going to wonder how you ever slept on anything else.

00:38:50.660 I love them so much.

00:38:51.740 I got it for my eldest kid.

00:38:53.240 And then I felt bad.

00:38:54.520 I feel like I was a bad father if I didn't get one for them.

00:38:56.620 What if I put the second kid on it?

00:38:57.980 Cheap mattress, that'd be very bad.

00:38:58.720 No, can't do it, can't do it.

00:38:59.560 Right now is the perfect time to upgrade your sleep because Helix is offering a fantastic

00:39:03.100 sale.

00:39:03.760 Go to helixsleep.com slash Knowles, can't it be really?

00:39:05.620 Yes, get 27% off site-wide.

00:39:07.720 Helixsleep.com slash Knowles for 27% off site-wide.

00:39:10.780 Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you.

00:39:14.540 Helixsleep.com slash Knowles.

00:39:16.820 Dave, do you know what time it is?

00:39:17.940 I know you're a great little spoon.

00:39:20.960 Don't know what time it is.

00:39:22.500 Time to continue the game?

00:39:24.840 It's time for the rapid fire round.

00:39:26.040 Why do you always want to be the little spoon?

00:39:27.980 That's the thing.

00:39:29.360 I'm a moderately sized man.

00:39:30.920 You know, I'm not...

00:39:32.320 All right, rapid fire.

00:39:34.420 Okay, all right.

00:39:35.260 Yes.

00:39:37.420 I'm up.

00:39:38.820 Yes.

00:39:39.160 Do you know how to play this?

00:39:40.360 I think it's just a faster version of what we're doing.

00:39:42.540 Yes, it is.

00:39:42.840 Yeah, yeah.

00:39:43.780 Okay, clear the answer.

00:39:44.680 So, there's going to be three questions.

00:39:47.780 I'm going to prompt it, and you type in your answer.

00:39:50.300 I'm going to guess how you would answer.

00:39:52.000 You've got three questions on there.

00:39:53.620 Three questions on there.

00:39:54.400 It's basically just a way for Davies to stop.

00:39:55.700 I've got to hit it, then reset, hit it, then reset.

00:39:58.120 Because I want to turn every question into like a lengthy conversation.

00:40:00.720 Okay.

00:40:00.880 Davies hates that, so he made it right.

00:40:02.300 Yeah, no, this is the internet.

00:40:03.340 For God's sake, people at things.

00:40:04.320 I know, okay.

00:40:05.120 All right.

00:40:06.280 Will your friendship with Cenk Uygur be repaired before your friendship with Sam Harris?

00:40:09.680 Cenk Uygur is an evil, jihadist, fat, bacon-greased-drinking, devilish, grotesque ogre.

00:40:36.920 And I'll tell you how I really feel off camera.

00:40:38.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:39.580 Okay.

00:40:40.600 Would you hire illegal immigrants on your tequila farm if they voluntarily turn themselves in for deportation?

00:40:46.620 So, they're Mexicans who are illegal in America.

00:40:48.300 They get sent back to Mexico.

00:40:49.320 Can they work for Dave Rubin?

00:40:49.860 Can they work for Dave Rubin?

00:40:51.000 Señor Rubino.

00:40:52.900 Si.

00:40:53.260 Si.

00:40:53.680 Si, si puede.

00:40:54.380 Muy bien.

00:40:55.080 Si puede.

00:40:56.000 Okay.

00:40:56.240 ¿Cuántos años tienes tú?

00:40:57.540 Could prime Dave Rubin beat Caitlin Clark one-on-one?

00:41:00.560 Oh, of course.

00:41:01.940 What are you kidding me?

00:41:02.620 You're a man.

00:41:03.680 I know you haven't even answered yet.

00:41:04.980 I'm like, yeah, obviously.

00:41:05.980 I'm like, I'll show my cards.

00:41:08.520 You know what?

00:41:09.120 I'm actually.

00:41:09.940 No.

00:41:10.500 You just want the point.

00:41:11.520 That's ridiculous.

00:41:12.180 No.

00:41:12.860 No, I probably.

00:41:14.160 Yes, you could.

00:41:14.300 I was really, really good in my day.

00:41:16.000 And I'm really good right now.

00:41:17.700 I had stem cells in my knee.

00:41:19.160 I played great last night.

00:41:20.940 I'm playing more.

00:41:21.600 Yeah, I had stem.

00:41:22.060 I blew out 15 tears in my knee in February.

00:41:25.680 Pop, crack, glass shattering.

00:41:27.420 I was like, I'm never going to walk again.

00:41:28.760 I was like, I'm never playing basketball again for sure.

00:41:30.460 I don't know if I want to walk the rest of the year.

00:41:31.920 Got stem cells.

00:41:33.040 I have a great guy.

00:41:33.800 If you ever, I know you're in peak physical condition.

00:41:35.720 I am.

00:41:36.280 People always say, what do you think about Michael Bowles?

00:41:37.300 Caitlin Clark won't even play me.

00:41:39.160 She won't even, she doesn't even call.

00:41:40.680 But I, stem cells, they take it from your own fat, adipose stem cells and inject it back

00:41:45.180 into you.

00:41:45.520 I was playing six weeks later.

00:41:46.980 That's how you got so skinny.

00:41:47.860 And I'm in no pain right now.

00:41:48.820 And then, and then also, yeah, no, it is, it is actually, because I play three times

00:41:51.900 a week, three hours a bop.

00:41:53.540 I meant they took the cells out of your body.

00:41:56.160 No, no, no.

00:41:57.540 You couldn't beat Caitlin Clark.

00:42:00.060 No, she's.

00:42:00.440 You in your prime.

00:42:01.240 Yes, you could.

00:42:01.640 Maybe you might.

00:42:02.400 Yes, you could.

00:42:03.140 You're a man.

00:42:03.660 Men are physically stronger and better at sports than women.

00:42:06.360 She's really damn good.

00:42:09.460 And could I hold my own for, I'm being kind of, I'm being as nice as I can possibly be.

00:42:16.240 Could I, oh, let's put it this way.

00:42:17.460 I'll put, how about this question?

00:42:18.820 Slightly, I'm going to alter the question in the rapid fire round.

00:42:21.880 Could peak Dave Rubin play in the WNBA?

00:42:24.640 Absolutely.

00:42:25.100 For sure.

00:42:25.600 Absolutely.

00:42:26.080 And be an extremely good player.

00:42:27.800 You're just saying you can only beat the black players, not the one white player.

00:42:30.640 Angel Reese.

00:42:31.220 That's what you're, yeah.

00:42:31.940 And I can't think of any others.

00:42:33.320 No, yeah.

00:42:34.340 Yeah.

00:42:34.820 Latrell Sprewell.

00:42:35.760 Was he, no.

00:42:36.520 That was a man.

00:42:37.180 It was a man.

00:42:37.820 Who choked his coach.

00:42:39.240 Remember that?

00:42:39.840 Oh, wow.

00:42:40.720 He choked PJ Carlissimo, and then they kicked him out of the league for a year.

00:42:43.160 Dennis Rodman sometimes wore dresses, as I recall.

00:42:45.960 He could have been in the WNBA.

00:42:47.260 Saw him once in West Hollywood.

00:42:49.100 Make that what you will.

00:42:50.040 All right.

00:42:50.340 That checks out.

00:42:51.120 Yeah.

00:42:51.620 That's, okay.

00:42:52.440 Okay.

00:42:53.820 I'm frustrated by losing that point, but that's fine.

00:42:56.040 Yeah.

00:42:56.220 That one was tough.

00:42:57.120 Here we go, Knowles.

00:42:59.260 Is there more evidence that standing six feet apart stops the spread of COVID than there

00:43:03.740 is that Jeffrey Epstein didn't run a blackmail operation?

00:43:08.160 They worded that quite interestingly.

00:43:09.660 Yeah.

00:43:10.200 They don't, they didn't pass remedial English on the producer team, so say it again.

00:43:14.320 Is there more evidence that standing six feet apart stops the spread of COVID than there

00:43:20.620 is that Jeffrey Epstein didn't run a blackmail operation?

00:43:24.900 You have to guess my answer.

00:43:26.520 Is there more evidence?

00:43:28.720 I think the answer, your answer, I think is no.

00:43:36.320 The answer is no.

00:43:36.900 Right.

00:43:37.220 There's no evidence that six feet.

00:43:38.520 This is why.

00:43:39.220 Right.

00:43:39.400 This is why.

00:43:39.700 So whatever the Epstein thing.

00:43:40.800 I'm not saying yes.

00:43:41.240 Yeah.

00:43:41.520 Yeah.

00:43:41.760 I might not, I might not have any evidence that Epstein ran a blackmail.

00:43:45.320 I think there is circumstantial evidence, but there is, there's negative evidence of

00:43:50.300 the six feet thing.

00:43:51.200 Yeah.

00:43:51.380 Because the doctors who invented it admitted it was all fake.

00:43:54.160 By the way, at the Nashville airport, I saw a woman in a mask.

00:43:56.260 Is there something happening that I should know about, by the way?

00:43:58.220 I saw, I didn't know if there was an outbreak.

00:44:00.560 There's a new, yeah, it's.

00:44:02.720 The hot honey chicken people are all eating here.

00:44:05.080 Yeah, I'm trying to think.

00:44:05.960 They have pangolin in Wuhan and here it's just like fried chicken.

00:44:10.120 They try to make, even the hot chicken thing, like it's nice, I like it.

00:44:13.900 It seems kind of contrived to me.

00:44:16.240 It seems like we need a thing.

00:44:18.140 So we're going to just put hot.

00:44:19.060 I had a hot honey chicken sandwich before I got here.

00:44:21.460 It's nice.

00:44:21.740 I like it.

00:44:22.420 So all I've had today is tequila, hot honey chicken, and a cigar.

00:44:25.520 I'm shutting it down.

00:44:26.320 But that'd be like if I were like mayor of Palookaville.

00:44:28.820 I'd be like, I want Palookaville to like have a thing.

00:44:31.140 Yeah.

00:44:31.320 Be like, our thing is going to be blue pickles.

00:44:34.360 We just may, and it's like, well, you can, but that's not, there's no history.

00:44:39.360 The hot chicken thing, I think it goes back like 10 years or something.

00:44:42.500 It's pretty good.

00:44:43.160 That's all I'm saying.

00:44:43.480 But it's good.

00:44:43.960 It's good.

00:44:44.240 It's good.

00:44:44.580 It's good.

00:44:44.600 Okay.

00:44:45.000 All right.

00:44:46.240 Should leakers who post nudes that were willingly sent to them face legal repercussions?

00:44:52.160 Oh, that's interesting.

00:44:53.280 Repeat it.

00:44:53.860 Should leakers who post nudes that were legally sent, oh, sorry, not legally, willingly sent

00:44:58.940 to them face legal repercussions?

00:45:01.460 This is an Azealia Banks, Conor McGregor question.

00:45:07.560 Should they face legal consequences?

00:45:09.020 Yeah.

00:45:09.440 So someone sent it to you willingly, but then you leak it.

00:45:13.820 Should there be legal repercussions?

00:45:15.340 I'm really not sure how in sync we are today.

00:45:28.660 This is, this, you said yes.

00:45:30.940 Yeah.

00:45:31.140 That, that was a very, actually very good question because your gut says no.

00:45:38.020 Your first instinct is no, whatever is, I sent it.

00:45:41.280 You send it.

00:45:42.100 Yeah.

00:45:42.240 It's like publishing in the New York Times.

00:45:43.940 But I don't think we, I don't think we want a culture where, look, first of all, everyone

00:45:49.340 sends nudes.

00:45:49.900 Like everyone in the drama sends nudes.

00:45:51.560 Yeah.

00:45:52.180 And I don't want to.

00:45:52.980 Why did you send them to me before the show?

00:45:55.020 How is that relevant to what we're doing?

00:45:56.500 Because I didn't want you to be surprised when I sent them after the show.

00:45:58.880 I wanted you to have some preparation for it.

00:46:02.780 But like everyone does it.

00:46:03.920 So do you want to live in a culture where everyone willy-nilly can just like post ex-girlfriends

00:46:10.820 like looking, looking flabby or whatever?

00:46:12.840 Right.

00:46:12.980 No.

00:46:13.620 I don't think so.

00:46:14.360 I don't want that.

00:46:15.020 Yeah.

00:46:15.540 That's sort of.

00:46:16.000 It's not, it's not about a consensual thing.

00:46:17.440 It's just like, I don't want it.

00:46:18.320 Right.

00:46:18.560 That's basically what I thought you were saying.

00:46:19.700 That there's some utility of the state every now and again.

00:46:21.980 Yeah.

00:46:22.360 Yeah.

00:46:22.560 You just have to smack these people around.

00:46:24.360 Obscenity.

00:46:24.820 Yeah.

00:46:24.960 Yeah.

00:46:25.460 You're no willy-nilly libertarian.

00:46:27.340 Yeah.

00:46:27.500 I'm not.

00:46:27.840 Yeah.

00:46:27.940 Exactly.

00:46:28.440 Okay.

00:46:29.160 Oh, this is a good.

00:46:29.980 Oh, does the far right hate Jews more than the far left?

00:46:41.100 It's sort of like, like when it comes to the Jews, it's sort of like, were they arsenic

00:46:45.480 or cyanide?

00:46:46.400 Exactly.

00:46:46.880 That's a good question.

00:46:49.360 That's a good one.

00:46:50.040 Does the far-

00:46:50.700 And they rapid fired this one on us.

00:46:52.360 They did.

00:46:53.580 You're going to say-

00:46:59.980 I think yes, actually.

00:47:01.560 You think yes?

00:47:02.200 Yeah.

00:47:02.740 Because both the far left and the far right, actually more of the mainstream left, ironically,

00:47:08.660 because most Jews are on the left, but the mainstream left is like pretty casually anti-Israel

00:47:14.000 and to some degree anti-Jew.

00:47:15.960 But the, you know, the more Hitlerian strains of the right, they really, really hate Jews,

00:47:23.460 qua-Jews.

00:47:24.580 Like not just the state of Israel, not just Zionism, not just bankers or something, but

00:47:29.560 they really seem to hate the Jews as Jews.

00:47:33.120 And I think it's more ideological for them.

00:47:36.320 Whereas the reason the left hates Israel is because they think Israel is a European colony

00:47:41.200 in the Middle East.

00:47:41.880 So it's really just an extension of hating white people.

00:47:44.300 Whereas for, again, it's a very small number of people, but some people on the right, some

00:47:48.900 people on the right just want to convert the Jews.

00:47:50.420 Right.

00:47:50.880 Which would be great.

00:47:51.560 I'm like, that'd be great.

00:47:52.360 But you want to convert the Jews because you love the Jews.

00:47:56.340 Some people on the right want to like send the Jews to camps.

00:47:58.900 Yeah.

00:47:59.180 And you do that because you hate the Jews.

00:48:00.980 Yeah.

00:48:01.340 And I, I see that more as a, it's a little, you know, it's a little horseshoe-y, but I

00:48:05.900 think it's more a right-wing thing than a left-wing thing.

00:48:08.580 You're, I don't even need to offer much on that.

00:48:10.460 Your, your answer, I could have gone either way on it.

00:48:12.640 And I think you, you know, like, yes, like the left version of it is just the confusion

00:48:16.340 of intersectionality coupled with white colonial nonsense, which isn't even true.

00:48:20.960 But so there's like, so that one has a lot to do with confusion where the right one probably

00:48:25.320 has a little bit more of like a, like a religious, I would say also largely confused or ethnic,

00:48:32.400 whatever.

00:48:33.100 So maybe there's like a little more of a pinprick in that one.

00:48:36.220 I will say this though, since this topic keeps coming up, I am much more bullish on the right

00:48:40.500 being able to resolve this without violence or anything else.

00:48:43.420 There are so many more principled people on the right who love America.

00:48:47.180 People keep asking me about this.

00:48:48.540 I get this question a lot, like, like, you know, what's going on with the right and the

00:48:51.960 Jews?

00:48:52.280 And to me, like, what's the, how do you fix this basically?

00:48:54.920 And you know how you fix it?

00:48:55.840 I think it's mostly what Trump is doing, which is make America successful.

00:48:59.540 When things are good.

00:49:00.800 Yeah.

00:49:01.060 When the country is going well, when the economy is good and everything, then there's some

00:49:05.060 lunatic screaming about the Jews and nobody's going to listen to it.

00:49:09.220 Yeah.

00:49:10.140 I think that's about right.

00:49:12.360 It's also, you know, we're talking about all these trends that have come up on the right.

00:49:16.220 The more religiosity, more, there's some of this like weird, the Jew stuff, there's been

00:49:20.620 shifts and whatever on trade policy and immigration.

00:49:24.400 But to your point on success, one of the thinkers who's come up a lot is Rene Girard.

00:49:31.380 Peter Thiel is a big Girard guy.

00:49:33.460 You see this in the intellectual circles on the right.

00:49:35.400 And Rene Girard is this theory of mimetic desire that we, you know, I desire the cigar not

00:49:40.760 because I know anything about cigars because you have the cigar and I admire you.

00:49:43.940 I want to have it too.

00:49:45.100 And then we are in competition for it.

00:49:46.640 And it leads to a war ultimately of all against all until you have to scapegoat.

00:49:50.120 And this is a biblical idea.

00:49:51.260 You have a scapegoat that takes the sins and it goes out.

00:49:53.600 And so in a, in a Christian world, Christ is the ultimate scapegoat who takes all the

00:49:58.880 sins of the world on him and, and conquers death and redeems them.

00:50:02.700 And so you don't have to do that anymore.

00:50:04.300 Exactly.

00:50:05.140 You have sacraments that remind you of that.

00:50:07.200 But in a post-Christian world, you're going to, you're going back to that.

00:50:12.260 And so who do you scapegoat?

00:50:13.700 You can scapegoat the libs or the deep state or the Klaus Schwab or Hillary or something.

00:50:21.600 But ultimately, historically.

00:50:23.420 But what would be the easiest thing to scapegoat?

00:50:25.200 It would be the group of people who have been not only scapegoated for so long, but who have

00:50:29.120 survived and somehow figured out to thrive.

00:50:31.020 Yes.

00:50:31.420 And thrive.

00:50:31.840 Yeah.

00:50:32.120 And thrive.

00:50:32.500 So that's the thing.

00:50:33.220 If the Jews were all beaten and brow beaten and had an, and that's particularly why they

00:50:37.700 hate Israel, because it's like, wait a minute, you're also going to be this tiny little nation

00:50:40.740 and you're going to be strong and somehow survive and pull off a beeper operation and knock out

00:50:45.780 Iran 50 times larger than you in 12 days and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:50:48.400 So it's like, that really is like the fly in the ointment for them.

00:50:51.380 This, this freaking thing makes no sense.

00:50:53.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:54.200 But ultimately, what does that all come down to?

00:50:55.740 It comes down to jealousy, which in essence is what you're trying to do.

00:50:58.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:58.640 Right, right.

00:50:58.940 It's envy and jealousy.

00:50:59.380 And it's just like, and that's why I think the right has a much better, we started with

00:51:03.080 the IDW thing and we were trying to stop the left from going crazy and we failed.

00:51:07.040 We really did fail at that.

00:51:08.260 But I don't think the right is going to go for, I go this crazy people on the right because

00:51:12.880 they're generally believers and because they believe, they believe, they live in, they

00:51:17.840 care about family more.

00:51:19.020 Like they actually understand it more like the grander thing.

00:51:22.440 I think that actually is the force field against hatred.

00:51:25.800 Yes.

00:51:26.040 And, and by the way, you decouple the Jews from the U S guess what?

00:51:29.080 It does not end well for the U S because that's just fundamentally true.

00:51:32.380 Like once, once we start importing sectarian hatred here, the thing that all of our ancestors

00:51:37.640 came from Italy or from Eastern Europe or wherever they came from to escape, once we

00:51:42.000 really import it here, all bets are off on this place.

00:51:45.800 Also, then we're not going to get any good loans, you know, is the other problem.

00:51:48.520 If you get, you kill, who's going to give you the Chinese?

00:51:50.520 By the way, I can get you 2.5%.

00:51:52.060 Okay, that would be, I'd love that.

00:51:55.520 Do you know?

00:51:56.240 30 year, baby.

00:51:56.880 Do you know, do you know what time it is?

00:51:58.020 Game time, huh?

00:52:01.580 How was that?

00:52:02.440 It's time for the final round.

00:52:05.100 This prompt will be read.

00:52:07.220 We will both lock in our answers, then move our glasses from yes to no to see if we can

00:52:12.100 read each other's minds.

00:52:14.160 This round is worth double points.

00:52:16.840 It could cha- could it?

00:52:18.360 Yes, it could change everything because the score, uh, this is good, is 2 me to negative

00:52:26.860 to you.

00:52:27.760 You got negative points.

00:52:28.720 I feel good about it, though.

00:52:30.080 You-

00:52:30.420 I feel like my reasoning was sound.

00:52:32.740 It's solid.

00:52:33.500 Yeah.

00:52:33.840 You could, at this moment.

00:52:35.860 And I look a lot better than I did in the throwback clip, so that's nice.

00:52:38.520 Yeah, I know.

00:52:39.060 You gotta take the wins where you can get.

00:52:40.300 I looked greasier there somehow.

00:52:41.740 I'm ashing all over your table.

00:52:43.000 That's our, that's a Mr. Davies problem.

00:52:45.820 You go first.

00:52:46.940 I'm going to put-

00:52:47.540 Okay.

00:52:49.280 We face a greater threat from Islam than socialism in the United States.

00:52:55.380 Your answer.

00:52:56.540 I'm giving you your answer.

00:52:57.640 Yeah, yeah.

00:52:59.700 My answer has been locked, and now I'm going to move your glass-

00:53:03.820 Yes.

00:53:05.180 To what I think your answer is.

00:53:06.880 You're going to say yes.

00:53:22.100 I got it right.

00:53:22.840 You got it wrong.

00:53:23.400 Ha ha!

00:53:24.320 You know why?

00:53:25.460 If you had asked me about Europe, I would say yes.

00:53:28.740 There just aren't that many Muslims in America.

00:53:30.880 We have a big ocean.

00:53:32.220 Dearborn.

00:53:32.700 Look, there are a lot of Muslims.

00:53:34.040 Patience, champ.

00:53:34.900 These people are patient.

00:53:37.820 And they have a lot of kids, and we don't have a lot of kids.

00:53:40.380 You know that Muhammad is the number one name in like 50 different countries?

00:53:44.160 Yeah, like the UK or so.

00:53:44.720 I think literally including Israel.

00:53:46.780 Including Israel because there's two million Muslims in Israel, and they all name their kids

00:53:50.560 Muhammad.

00:53:51.140 Wow.

00:53:51.640 You're going to get a lot of Hebrew names.

00:53:52.400 We got to pick a white guy name.

00:53:53.940 We should all do Keith or something.

00:53:55.500 Yeah.

00:53:55.700 So now it's like the number one name in Lebanon is Keith.

00:53:59.260 Did the question involve America, or was it worldwide Islam?

00:54:02.060 It was specifically America.

00:54:03.060 I think.

00:54:03.260 I want to check.

00:54:03.860 Hold on.

00:54:04.200 In the United States.

00:54:05.620 It was the United States.

00:54:06.560 Yeah.

00:54:06.860 I mean, I think Islam actually, unfortunately, is the big fight.

00:54:10.240 Well, Islam is deeper than, you know, religion's deeper than ideology.

00:54:14.320 Yeah.

00:54:14.420 So in that sense, it's a deeper issue.

00:54:18.440 Yeah.

00:54:18.740 We've been fighting Islam for like 1,400 years, you know.

00:54:20.960 But my only thought is in America, to me the bigger, like Mamdani, this guy in New

00:54:25.740 York.

00:54:25.960 Yeah.

00:54:26.400 Is, I'll drink anyway.

00:54:26.800 Well, he's the perfect synthesis of both, which is why it's doubly dangerous.

00:54:30.040 I, it seems to me, look, I don't know.

00:54:31.720 I haven't followed him that closely.

00:54:32.960 I think he's kind of a, he's like kind of a Muslim, I guess.

00:54:37.720 I think he's more a leftist than a Muslim.

00:54:40.340 And you know what I think he is even more than a leftist?

00:54:43.000 I think he is a striver.

00:54:45.100 I think he.

00:54:46.160 Oh, that's interesting.

00:54:47.320 Well, that would, like an opportunist.

00:54:48.740 So that would be the greatest, that would be the greatest way out.

00:54:51.160 Here, you work with some journalists over here at the Daily Wire?

00:54:53.540 You've got a couple of people that are journalists, right?

00:54:54.960 Occasionally, I've met one or two, yeah.

00:54:55.380 Here's what you do.

00:54:55.940 You want to blow up the whole Mamdani thing at once.

00:54:57.820 I keep tweeting this out.

00:54:58.640 And if someone would just do it, I think it would solve it pretty quickly.

00:55:01.520 He pretends that he's a, a good Muslim and that that's part of his, you know, ideology

00:55:06.540 or his holistic view of the world or whatever.

00:55:08.620 And then he's also marching at the gay pride and everything.

00:55:11.960 So pick one, man.

00:55:12.900 Now I'm, pick one, pick one.

00:55:14.400 So the question for Mamdani, somebody should just ask him, does your mosque perform gay

00:55:19.960 marriages?

00:55:20.460 Yes or no?

00:55:21.600 And the, and since not one, since not one mosque in the United States does it, and by

00:55:25.080 the way, I wouldn't force them to do it just the way I wouldn't force a church to do it

00:55:27.680 or a synagogue or anywhere else.

00:55:29.220 Religious institutions can do whatever the hell they want.

00:55:31.740 Yeah, yeah.

00:55:32.640 But let him answer that question.

00:55:34.060 So you're telling me you attend a place for spiritual nourishment that discriminates

00:55:39.840 against the very same people that you're marching with.

00:55:42.180 Against the queer.

00:55:43.120 Yeah.

00:55:43.280 Yeah, that's pretty good.

00:55:44.980 Yeah.

00:55:46.600 Yeah.

00:55:47.100 Okay.

00:55:47.600 So get on that.

00:55:48.320 Just talk.

00:55:48.580 Okay, I'll go.

00:55:49.180 Hey, Zoron.

00:55:51.120 Zoron.

00:55:51.620 No, tell one of your journalists.

00:55:52.900 Oh, okay.

00:55:53.420 Hey, you have at least like one at the whole Daily Wire.

00:55:56.120 Yeah, somebody's got to be.

00:55:57.080 Okay.

00:55:57.280 All right, I do this.

00:55:58.060 This is yours.

00:55:58.700 Okay.

00:55:59.080 Okay.

00:55:59.220 Is it okay to profit from people's vices?

00:56:07.460 First off, your laugh right there.

00:56:12.840 Well, the initial guttural laugh.

00:56:15.200 Depends on the meaning of the word vices.

00:56:17.320 It is.

00:56:20.320 So what do I think Michael Knowles is going to say?

00:56:22.560 You're okay to profit off people's vices.

00:56:24.220 Wait, am I answering for myself or for you?

00:56:25.600 First for yourself, then we move the cups for each other.

00:56:28.240 So I'm answering for myself.

00:56:30.280 Is it okay?

00:56:31.340 No, I answer for you.

00:56:41.000 Okay, and you answer for me.

00:56:43.240 I'm answering for you.

00:56:44.920 You own a tequila company.

00:56:46.160 I own a cigar company.

00:56:48.680 The answer has to be yes.

00:56:50.100 The answer is no.

00:56:51.540 No, but...

00:56:51.920 Because cigars are not a vice,

00:56:53.920 and alcohol in moderation is not a vice either.

00:56:57.120 But, so are you saying you couldn't own a candy company?

00:57:00.380 I don't think it's a vice.

00:57:01.960 I don't think it's a vice.

00:57:02.560 What do you mean?

00:57:02.940 Certain things...

00:57:03.500 It doesn't have to be the Michael Knowles vice,

00:57:05.940 but obviously people have a sugar addiction.

00:57:07.800 People have alcohol addictions.

00:57:09.820 People can abuse chicken thigh.

00:57:12.420 You know, I mean, people can be gluttons.

00:57:14.040 Well, and I don't know what else they're doing with chicken thighs.

00:57:16.660 What was that?

00:57:17.200 People can abuse chicken thigh?

00:57:18.420 Yeah, listen, I don't know.

00:57:19.840 I lived in L.A. for a while, you know.

00:57:22.160 I don't like that, man.

00:57:22.960 But people can abuse anything.

00:57:24.460 I mean, you can abuse anything taken to an inappropriate...

00:57:27.100 But that's why I said the answer is yes.

00:57:28.720 Yes, because otherwise you couldn't...

00:57:31.360 You couldn't engage in the economy at all.

00:57:32.960 Yeah, you basically couldn't be part of the economy.

00:57:34.300 But certain things you would admit are vicious in themselves.

00:57:38.280 Sure.

00:57:38.740 Like, I don't know, like cockfighting or something.

00:57:43.320 Speaking of abusing...

00:57:44.360 Chicken thigh fighting.

00:57:45.740 No, are there things that are...

00:57:47.320 No, no, no, of course there are things that are worse than other things.

00:57:51.820 No, but I'm not saying that.

00:57:52.900 I mean, there's certain things...

00:57:54.460 Everything can be abused into a vice.

00:57:57.600 Right.

00:57:58.140 But some things are in themselves always and everywhere vices.

00:58:04.140 Homeless boxing.

00:58:05.300 Yeah, like women driving.

00:58:06.800 Yeah, yeah, right.

00:58:07.900 Yeah.

00:58:08.380 And that...

00:58:08.960 So those we should not profit off of.

00:58:10.520 Sure, but I don't think you're answering the question as it was posed.

00:58:13.360 Can you profit off other people's vices?

00:58:19.260 The...

00:58:19.540 Yeah.

00:58:21.320 The cigar is a vice.

00:58:22.440 Is it okay?

00:58:23.060 No, I don't think it's okay.

00:58:23.940 People do it, but I don't think it's okay.

00:58:26.040 I think if I had my druthers, I would not sell my...

00:58:32.800 People don't really get addicted to cigars, but if someone were addicted, they were smoking

00:58:36.220 like 100 cigars a day.

00:58:37.400 Yeah.

00:58:37.540 I would not want to sell my product to that person.

00:58:40.900 But you don't have the knowledge to know that when someone's buying.

00:58:44.580 But I just don't think it's okay.

00:58:46.140 Sure.

00:58:47.420 But I think I've proven myself right here, Knowles.

00:58:51.520 You will sell your cigars to anyone who will buy them.

00:58:55.000 That's just the truth, right?

00:58:56.240 Yes, that's true.

00:58:56.520 That's not a judgment call.

00:58:57.440 You're selling a product.

00:58:58.260 That's just fine.

00:58:59.060 Your hope is that people will smoke them judiciously.

00:59:02.540 I don't want people to become alcoholics when I'm selling...

00:59:05.260 You know, tequila happens to be the healthiest of all alcohols, but I'm not telling people

00:59:08.240 it's healthy.

00:59:09.020 It is.

00:59:09.480 It's good for breakfast.

00:59:10.280 And it's quite tasty, if I'm not.

00:59:13.960 Okay.

00:59:14.500 All right.

00:59:14.840 Well, the most important thing is...

00:59:16.360 The point is we're both going to.

00:59:17.160 Did I win?

00:59:17.820 Yes.

00:59:18.880 Michael wins six to negative six, but not six, six, six.

00:59:24.220 That would have been a bit much.

00:59:25.180 That would have been very bad.

00:59:26.080 Everybody...

00:59:26.760 Is this the biggest blowout in the history of the thing?

00:59:29.520 It's because I give you more credit, I think, in some sense, than other people.

00:59:32.940 Most people think very shallow of you.

00:59:34.540 You do.

00:59:35.100 Yeah.

00:59:35.700 You do.

00:59:36.260 You gave me a reputation to live up to, and I failed.

00:59:39.000 Because you always mention all your old friends, your historical figures that you pretend

00:59:42.760 that you knew.

00:59:43.480 Yes.

00:59:43.580 And I always think very highly of that.

00:59:44.940 I know.

00:59:45.280 Thank you.

00:59:45.700 I appreciate that.

00:59:46.580 And I'm glad that I could underperform your high expectations of me.

00:59:50.620 Yes.

00:59:50.980 Everyone...

00:59:51.660 You're probably already doing it, but for the two of you out there who are not, go watch

00:59:55.800 Dave's show on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:00:00.000 We also have the exclusive world premiere commercial for Copal.

01:00:05.960 Reposado.

01:00:06.960 Check it out, amigo.

01:00:11.400 Wow.

01:00:12.160 Wow.

01:00:12.560 I'm living in that 21st century, doing something mean to it.

01:00:25.080 Do it better than anybody you've ever seen.

01:00:27.800 Do it screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.

01:00:31.500 I guess every superhero need his theme music.

01:00:34.480 No one man should have all that power.

01:00:37.380 The clock's ticking, I just count the hours.

01:00:43.700 I'll drink to that.

01:00:44.880 Cheers.

01:00:45.820 Is one of those girls Asian?

01:00:49.260 Just having a good time.

01:00:50.400 It's for everybody.

01:00:52.180 I'll see all of you next time on Yes or No.

The Michael Knowles Show - July 27, 2025

YES or NO： Dave Rubin

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