＂You LIED About Everything？＂ Michael & The Prodigal Daughter 2 ｜ Nala Ray
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 59 minutes
Words per Minute
196.42102
Summary
Nala Ray is a former porn star who left porn and converted to Christianity and has engendered support from people who were happy that she converted, and a great deal of hatred and disdain from other people who believe she lied about her conversion.
Transcript
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Really shook the internet the first time you came on.
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People were tagging me on social media and they said,
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See, Michael, here's proof that she lied to you.
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Everything I've said on podcasts is complete clickbait.
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That happened to her. I can't believe that it's real.
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Because then that means I can change my ways and still get saved.
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I have never had a more passionate reaction to any interview I've ever conducted
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than I did to an interview I had a year ago with Nala Ray, a former OnlyFans star
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who left pornography and converted to Christianity
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and has engendered support from people who were happy that she converted
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and a great deal of hatred and disdain and contempt from other people.
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Jordan, Nala, thank you for coming back to Nashville.
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But you, something about you drove people up a wall.
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So I'll tell you the first thing that people came at me with.
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again, you can just sense the spirit behind that.
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is why people think that Christianity is so popular.
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I became more famous because I was Christian now
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people we've talked about or anything like that
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I had no idea I was gonna gain any kind of following
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or lose all of my following for becoming a Christian.
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and it was such a click-baity thing for me to do
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Even if it attracts negative attention from the world.
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Yeah, so Jordan can shed some light on this too.
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I even showed him we were right next to each other
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when I pushed the delete button back in like January.
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And what happened was I had so many subscribers,
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until every single subscriber has unsubscribed.
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people sometimes are very inactive on OnlyFans.
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The other thing people said was you raised your prices.
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Yeah, so for me, as a person who does spend money smartly,
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Raise the price because they're going to pay for nothing.
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Before you subscribe, you can see the amount of how many photos a model has on her page
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So why would you pay to get into account by one not having a profile photo?
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And they're like, if I set it to free, I would gain so many subscribers.
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So in our heads, we were like, let's just raise the price.
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No one's going to pay for zero photos to see or anything.
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Because the whole point was, OnlyFans was telling me, I can't,
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And I was like, oh my God, like we can't wait that long.
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So what can we do to like discourage people from signing up?
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You know, no one's going to pay like a $50 price to get into something that has nothing in there.
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I think the scary part is people still paid for it.
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And I'm like, bro, you see that there's nothing there.
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Was it new subscribers or was it just people who, because I forget to cancel Netflix or whatever.
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There's like 2,000 subscribers left in there, they said.
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I was even thinking about putting out a message on my social.
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Like, if you are subscribed to my OnlyFans, please unsubscribe.
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But I also didn't want to draw more attention to it.
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So I feel like if I just leave it alone and OnlyFans, like their team can just help me with whatever they can.
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And when they do, they're not even speaking like English.
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I had a thought once that I would start an OnlyFans page, but it would just be me reading Italian poetry or something.
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I think you told me that in the first interview.
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Now, the other criticism I saw of you is that you went back on the Whatever podcast.
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You had been on the Whatever podcast when you were active in porn and said all sorts of crazy things.
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Then you came on my show, which was probably the first big interview after you converted.
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And I was very honored to have that conversation.
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But then the criticism I saw was you went back on the Whatever podcast and you said that you lied about everything.
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I remember your video explaining this because there was no, like, there was nothing leading up to that video.
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People were tagging me in it on social media and they said, see, Michael, here's proof that she lied to you.
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She said that she lied to you because she said she lied about everything on all these podcasts because mine was the first podcast that she went on.
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That does not appear to be what you were saying.
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So in that moment, I had been asked by somebody on the screen to explain, like, because Andrew was asking me, hey, like, how should I believe you now, now that you've, like, come this way and blah, blah, blah.
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And so for me, I was like, well, before I was playing a character, social media is clickbait.
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I knew what I needed to say and do to get more subscribers, to get more money.
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So for me, I was like, I wanted to go back on the whatever podcast to explain more of, like, everything leading up.
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Not that I owed them an explanation, but that was kind of where all the raunchiness started was that podcast.
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And I wanted to go back and give answers and really, like, just show that I am different.
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Whether people want to believe me or not, that's fine.
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But there were so many questions popping up in my comments, just like you're getting, talking about me lying and all this.
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And, like, I just walked away with $14 million and all this stuff.
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And I'm like, no, let's set the record straight here.
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Although I did not know Andrew was going to be on it.
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But, yeah, I just feel like people would love to believe that I'm lying.
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But it's just, that makes it so much more difficult than it actually is.
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Like, the truth is way more simple to believe than this lie that everybody is creating about me.
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On that point, people, either they don't like you or they do like you or they don't want to believe you or they do want to believe you, people can believe whatever they like.
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But I thought it was quite disreputable of people on social media to clip that out in such a way that it made it seem like you were saying the opposite of what you quite clearly were saying.
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Whether people like you or they don't like you, it's pretty clear what you were saying to me.
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I feel like most people are upset at the fact that I did what I did and was able to be saved.
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And people almost, you know when you watch the news and how negative it is and people love that negativity rather than positive, you know?
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I don't even know if everybody would watch it because that negativity just drives you.
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So when you see a story like mine and then you're just like, wow, that happened to her, I can't believe that it's real because then that means I can change my ways and still get saved, you know?
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Or people who've been in the religious area for a while or been a Christian most of their life see somebody like me.
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And like the prodigal story, we were just talking about that, how, you know, the brother was so mad that the other brother came home and got this huge feast.
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And he's like, I've been here this whole time working in the fields, you know?
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I feel like the hater's mindset is that brother who's upset that somebody like me could go squander my earnings and come back and is like willing to be a servant almost.
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And then just gets welcomed back by their father with a feast and robes and gold and just like is just so welcomed into the family when I've been such an outcast.
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It's almost like, hey, why are we letting somebody like her in our circle?
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It's this Christian mindset that I continue to find of like religious spirit instead of a relational spirit with Christ,
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where people should have a relationship with Christ rather than a religion surrounding God.
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It's a habit of virtue that inclines the will to give to God what he deserves.
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Some would say, like St. Thomas Aquinas, but I see your point.
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The distinction between a kind of rigorous legalism and a fruit of the spirit being acted out.
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However, I feel like as Christians in that religion, we walk with Christ in a relationship that is day by day.
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And I get why the son who stayed with the father is irritated when the prodigal comes back.
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But the point you just brought up is even more interesting to me, which is you said offhandedly,
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well, some people don't like the idea that I, having been as bad as I was, could be saved
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because that says something about the possibility of their salvation.
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I was just talking to a friend of mine, an irreligious person, who said,
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well, I don't like religion because it threatens you with hell.
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And I said, well, there's some hope though, too.
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And this friend of mine said, well, I'm a little too far gone for that.
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And I was taken aback because I said, you just have contrition and you confess your sins.
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And you ask God for help and cooperate with God's grace.
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And that's what I feel like when I was getting into a debate with two certain individuals
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about how I needed to read church history in order to grasp the gravity of my Christianity.
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But yet in Romans, it has two specific things that I needed to do, which was speak with my mouth
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It is not a laundry list of things that I needed to do to cleanse myself because I cannot cleanse
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So again, I hit on that point because I almost feel like this jealousy nature of the people
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who are coming after me consistently, that they want something so bad and they're mad that
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But the reality of it is they have that opportunity.
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It's not harder for anybody else and it's not easier for other people.
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But I've heard people say the exact same thing that you're talking about how, oh, I'm too
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I'm like, me, I thought I was a bit too far gone.
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The only thing was to just keep going forward because I couldn't go back.
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So with following Christ, it's just about, and even God promises in the Bible to throw your
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sins in a sea of forgetfulness as far as the East is from the West.
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So if you're like, other people may not be able to forgive you and you can't be redeemed
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And I might spend the rest of my life with people doubting me and thinking I'm a liar.
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But my God is so much bigger than that and has already forgiven me.
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And people will say, well, this is cheap salvation.
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Actually, it was bought for a very heavy price.
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But some people will say, well, then why can't I just sin, live it up, do a bunch of porn and
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And people will say, why can't I have a deathbed conversion?
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I'd say the biggest thing is that you weren't guaranteed tomorrow.
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You know, I'm not guaranteed the next five minutes.
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So if I act out here because of like my selfish ways, my selfish wants, and then I don't know
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what's going to happen in the next five minutes, then like I'm dying in my sin, you know, living
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I'm not ready to give me up and do what God wants me to do when God promises that what
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he has is far greater than what we could ever think or imagine.
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So it's like, you're really downplaying and dumbing down your version of life when God
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is like, hey, no, I have a way better plan for you if you would just accept me and follow
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And even if you don't get hit by a bus, even if you make it to 99 years old, the way
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people think it's going to play out is they're just going to remain totally rational.
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They're going to forget that sin darkens the intellect.
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They're going to be degenerates their whole lives.
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And then the last minute, ha ha, they're going to get it.
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But what really happens, at least in my experiences, the more you sin, the more you turn away from
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God, the more comfortable you get in that, the more reluctant you are to respond to God's
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And it's just, you're just probably not going to have a last minute conversion.
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You've been sitting in your sin for what, 99 years now?
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And at some point, you might not even think there's a God anymore.
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Or something could have changed her mind along the way.
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Or, you know, you just like feel like, oh, I've been a good person.
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Or you might not even be mentally capable to make that decision at that age.
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You mentioned the Whatever podcast and being hit for all these theological things.
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The one clip I saw that I also probably disagreed with some of the tactics in this clip.
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Like, one of the guys on the Whatever show caught you in a theological error.
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I know that there's a father, a son, and the Holy Spirit in their roles.
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What he got upset about was the fact that I misused the word part instead of person.
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But in my head, it's the same thing when I'm speaking about the Trinity.
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And it's just saying a word that he did not like.
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So I don't understand his points of views on certain things.
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And the way he came at it was just baiting me, I felt like,
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instead of just genuinely having a conversation about what I actually thought and believed.
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In fact, it was just the opposite of yelling, screaming, and cussing at me.
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And I said what he thought was like the wrong word and then spouted off about it.
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You fell into a theological error, it seems to me.
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In fact, it's very difficult to speak about the Trinity,
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the central mystery of the Christian faith, without falling into errors.
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There's a great video put out, I think by some Lutherans,
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with little leprechauns trying to describe the Trinity.
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And one guy, he tries, he says, well, you know, well, you know, it's sort of like water.
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And he said, oh, that's the heresy of modalism, Patrick.
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And there's a story, probably apocryphal, in fact, certainly apocryphal, of St. Augustine
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And there's a child on the beach putting water into a hole with a clamshell.
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And he says, I'm going to fill the ocean into this hole.
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And Augustine says, well, that's probably a stupid idea because you're never going to do that.
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He says, that's right, neither will you fit the Trinity into your finite head.
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And then he's transfigured into an angel and flies away.
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If one can speak without error about the Trinity, but one will never speak comprehensively about
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the Trinity because you cannot fit God into your head.
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So then what do you make of that kind of experience?
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I mean, you say, okay, darn, I shouldn't have said that, or I misspoke, or...
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You know, at that point, I think I did pretty good with the situation I was in.
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As far as, yes, maybe falling into a theological error.
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However, in my mind, I feel like the people coming against me were trying to make it way
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And what I was being accused of is having like a makeshift potato head Jesus in my mind.
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But I've read quite a few amazing books, like one called The Holy Spirit by John Bevere.
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And that really helped me shape the identity of the Holy Spirit and what His role is here
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And then the role of Jesus in the awe of God and the role of God and where they're placed
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And like, and I'm just like, okay, so I do need to study more.
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I would love that opportunity to understand it more.
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But I don't think personally in my walk with Christ that understanding the theological side
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It's like, listen, I'm not trying to not learn, but I think that it's bordering a line
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I want to learn more and I do not know everything and I will never know everything.
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But I feel like it was bordering religious so hard that I'm like, I can't argue and debate
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you on this because you believe something different than I believe.
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I'm not even sure that we believe in the same God with the way you're speaking to me about
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Because if you were truly, truly wondering about where I was and concerned about what I
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believe in, you'd pull me aside and actually have a conversation, not a debate online.
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As a true Christian, we come brother to brother.
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Obviously, I'm not his brother, but I'm his sister in Christ.
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And if you were truly worried, approach me with my husband and speak to me about these
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And, oh, I caught this little OnlyFans girl trying to pretend like she's Christian.
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And it was just like disheartening that I can't actually have a conversation with somebody
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who claims to be a Christian for some very long period of time.
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I engage in debates professionally, so I understand the role of debate.
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But if I'm thinking of something like evangelism, one has to ask, okay, what are we aiming at
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You know, don't we want to help these people along?
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You mentioned that in your last video defending me.
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If our mission here is just to debate people and argue about theological issues or religious
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issues, like that, then you've gotten all the glory from it.
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Like Jesus told the disciples to go out into the world and they actually stayed in Jerusalem
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And then Paul came along and was like, I'll take on the task.
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So I'm like, if our goal here is just to argue, then you've won.
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Many much more intelligent people than I and better educated people than I are theologians.
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But you're not going to earn your salvation with a theological tract or even with theological
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I'm not in any way downplaying the importance of clarity in your faith.
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But Aristotle talks about this in the ethics, which is that you can know a lot about virtue
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What really matters is that you kind of put your whole body into it.
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So then I guess the next question is, we're here a year later.
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So much has happened in the time we've gotten married.
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But I feel like I've been going on a lot of podcasts and a lot of people like to think
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that I'm just getting paid for all these podcasts and I'm just trying to soak in the fame.
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I've actually prayed about every single podcast I've been asked on and I've actually turned
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down quite a few because I didn't feel like God was leading me in that direction.
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Yeah, so I don't, nobody pays me to go on all these podcasts and travel all around doing
00:25:08.100
We started our own company called Be The Change.
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Just for a bigger, we really want to share the message on being the change.
00:25:16.640
And Jordan and I both in our personal lives were like that change that we wanted to see
00:25:23.720
And then we were trying to start a non-for-profit called Race to Change so we can go do mission
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We feel very called to the mission field wherever that is, but I know God calls us to be servants.
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Like when Jesus came down to be man, he was such a servant.
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So I've spent my entire life being served and I want to serve now.
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I want to give back and I feel like that's the calling on my life.
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We moved to a place that I've never been to before.
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And then on top of that, dealing with every single day hate from the internet, which is
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almost like we've had conversations where we're like, I can't wait until we're off of
00:26:16.480
But I don't think that that's God's purpose for us.
00:26:19.320
I think we are called to be evangelists and me to women and him to men.
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But I feel like God's just working in so many ways in our life right now that it's kind of
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But just living day to day in a relationship with him has led us to incredible opportunities.
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We've met some extremely strong Christian figures in our life that we both desperately
00:26:48.620
Before we move on, you just brushed over a number of things.
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And then they remarried and then are now as of last year, like in March, the same time
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I was getting off of OnlyFans and getting saved, they decided to get divorced again.
00:27:17.040
He broke into my mom's home with like a gun and a knife and is sent to,
00:27:28.820
Because you like to think that when things start turning sunny in your life, like they
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Oh, my mother is in like a very recovery stage.
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I've been slowly but surely talking to her again.
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I do find that she's finding some healing, but this is the first time she's been alone
00:28:00.060
You know, I really didn't expect like the return that I had.
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Like my siblings don't exactly like accept me, I feel like.
00:28:11.460
And he's even heard some conversations over the phone with them where my little sister
00:28:15.100
was complaining about the amount of times she's seen me on social media preaching, like
00:28:21.480
And she's like, how do I get this crap off my phone?
00:28:24.540
Was she complaining about the porn before the evangelism?
00:28:28.080
But we weren't actually like talking during that time.
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But it's just been like a difficult, like rocky, cold entrance back into my family.
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I would say they just don't have a really strong relationship with God.
00:28:51.920
But it's more just like letting a stranger kind of come back in after they kind of pushed
00:28:57.060
her out, as well as just like, I guess like not always walking the walk.
00:29:06.320
A lot of them have fallen away from Christianity and even claim to be Christian, but their lifestyle
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So I do think they believe me, but I also don't think they care.
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They don't seem to genuinely care at all about anything.
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It's been like definitely very difficult to really want this family that's like been in
00:29:32.460
And then you find out it was kind of a delusion.
00:29:38.740
Well, obviously you've got to, we all love our families and have a natural loyalty to our
00:29:44.020
families, but you've, you've got a trickier situation maybe than most.
00:29:52.660
But you made a bazillion dollars in pornography.
00:30:13.920
And then the agency that I was working with, this OnlyFans agency that was like chatting
00:30:19.360
in my DMs and posting for me and doing all the work, they took a hefty like 45%.
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And I was living in California, which also takes so much in taxes.
00:30:29.900
So like the first year I was living in California, just my state taxes alone were like $87,000.
00:30:36.880
So it got cut up like three times and I'm left with what I'm left with.
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And then we had to liquidate that because taxes came in for this year from last year.
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And then this big life change happened in January.
00:31:05.900
This is how celebrities end up owing the IRS like $5 million.
00:31:10.960
I think the issue is like they don't have a good CPA.
00:31:14.280
I don't think I have a great, I didn't have a good CPA.
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Didn't advise, you know, you got to save money on taxes.
00:31:18.120
Well, I knew I needed to save money for taxes, but it was so like, am I paying quarterly?
00:31:29.100
OnlyFans in particular, show business generally, even the cleaner side of show business.
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People have criticized you because they say, you made all this money.
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And because God saves you through the, his free grace.
00:31:50.600
Uh, well, that's good, but there's contrition and then there's, uh, you know, confession.
00:31:57.500
There's absolution, but then there's satisfaction.
00:32:05.260
So I don't know what they want me to give away at this point because I've given away
00:32:12.160
And so I'm like, what else do you want me to give?
00:32:14.520
But I feel like that, that conversation could go on for forever because people want me to
00:32:24.180
Like I'm doing everything wrong, but I'll believe you when you do this.
00:32:28.040
And I'm like, what money do I have to give away at this point?
00:32:31.480
I think probably a lot of the demands people are making are disingenuous and it's, it'll
00:32:35.800
But there is a, there is a real question there, which is, okay, when I go sin, which
00:32:41.300
happens time and time again, often some would say, then I, I go and I confess my sins and
00:32:47.780
I receive God's absolution and, but there's a penance.
00:32:55.580
Have you given thought to, okay, I, I did all these bad things and I have been converted
00:33:01.920
and I now have this good life and I'm on the right path.
00:33:05.800
But is there a penance that you feel called to do?
00:33:13.300
I feel like the biggest thing that I feel very called to do is to bring awareness to
00:33:17.840
the industry, not just OnlyFans, the industry and what kind of darkness that absolutely resides
00:33:26.520
And that like, there are very big consequences to your actions.
00:33:33.060
Like at first it seems free, like showing my body and I get all this money.
00:33:38.240
Like I'm just sharing something that, you know.
00:33:45.340
But then once that's done, that price to be paid is like your soul.
00:33:54.120
Not only by the people who run your OnlyFans, you're owned by them.
00:33:59.660
You're owned by OnlyFans because if you stop producing, you stop making money.
00:34:03.380
So now you're just like a hamster in a hamster wheel, just going round and round and round
00:34:07.400
And like the hamster wheel keeps getting nicer and nicer, but you're still in a revolving
00:34:11.440
Like you're never like broken free from that without God's grace.
00:34:15.460
So there is a price to pay for the tax that you are absorbing the entire time.
00:34:30.900
And then when you, God, God is so good and so forgiving and so gracious, but you yourself,
00:34:37.820
And I'm very empathetic and I've, there's been many times where I've just been sitting
00:34:41.860
down in my Bible time where I feel the hearts of the people that I hurt, the feel the hearts
00:34:47.660
of like the women who caught their husband watching me or like it's, it's real.
00:34:58.340
You know, I've said I'm sorry a couple of times on camera, but I just feel like that's
00:35:02.020
And like, if I could, I'd love to say it to people in front of their face.
00:35:08.520
I'm very empathetic and I never want to cause anybody to like harm themselves or be in a
00:35:13.160
situation that harmed them because of my actions.
00:35:17.340
I mean, yes, they could have bought it from somebody else, but you did mine.
00:35:20.900
You bought mine, you know, and I'm like, I'm responsible for that.
00:35:24.120
And I think a lot of the hate also comes from people being like, oh, she's just not like
00:35:30.220
She needs to give all the way of money, all the money away.
00:35:32.620
And that will be, you know, claiming responsibility, like give it to a charity.
00:35:36.340
I'm like, I'm sorry, but that doesn't take away what I did.
00:35:40.040
It's still rooted in people's hearts and minds.
00:35:45.020
Pray that God like wipes that clean in their brain and that like they can continue on a
00:35:49.740
journey of not lusting anymore and set them free from that.
00:36:00.400
And on the point of shame, I imagine that is a heavy cost.
00:36:07.200
You know, I've seen some of the commentary on social media.
00:36:12.160
You've married this person who has had a radical change in her life and you appear to have a
00:36:30.260
Because like when everything I guess like first started, it was super hard for me.
00:36:37.900
But it's hard when you can't protect like against an enemy you can't see.
00:36:44.160
But like something I really have just been working on and gotten really good at is literally
00:36:53.080
Because like there's only so much you can do within your own strength and in your own
00:36:58.180
means where it's like, all right, like God take it from here.
00:37:01.320
Because like what does God say about vengeance and like getting back?
00:37:08.700
It's where my place is, is standing up for my wife and like defending her spiritually
00:37:27.340
Because more people need to hear the name of Jesus.
00:37:37.880
In the beginning, it was, it was really hard because like there'd be people who would like
00:37:40.980
DM me like pictures of her on her, like from her past.
00:37:43.740
I was like, bro, I don't want to see this because like for me, it was like, all right,
00:37:47.340
when you think of your wife, you're like, okay, like this is mine.
00:37:51.780
And then it's like, all right, well, a lot of people have seen her.
00:37:54.020
Like, so it was like, it was really hard, but it's like, she's now a new creation.
00:37:57.920
You know, in the end, if it was just us two here on earth, would I actually care about
00:38:05.020
You know, so it's just like, you have to look at it, you know, in a very focused lens
00:38:12.480
I don't care what Joe Schmo down the street thinks, you know, like he's living his life.
00:38:20.020
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I had this thought the other day, too, since the culture's saturated with OnlyFans and all
00:39:28.280
this, not just professional pornography, but this kind of semi-professional pornography.
00:39:33.440
I thought, that's got to be very difficult for dating, for the women who have done it,
00:39:37.380
and for men who are going to be dating as women.
00:39:40.780
Today, all sorts of women who aren't on OnlyFans send nude pictures of themselves all around
00:39:48.540
And so the haters don't understand that OnlyFans is the step after what you're doing.
00:39:56.740
Women send nudes to their boyfriends or random girls or guys, and guys are doing the exact
00:40:05.180
But strangers are seeing you in very intimate forms.
00:40:11.240
You don't know if they're sending it to their buddies or not, which they probably are.
00:40:15.040
So, and it's just like, or you have sugar daddies.
00:40:19.860
So you're actually getting paid to show your body or have sex with a stranger.
00:40:24.680
So it's like, you're upset at me for doing this, but it actually goes on way more than
00:40:31.060
I did wonder if this is the OnlyFans phenomenon is just a particular example of this broader
00:40:37.420
And what percentage, for Zoomers, you know, I don't know, people in their 20s, what percentage
00:40:43.440
of women who are dating men have ever sent a nude picture?
00:41:01.100
Like, that is what people use Snapchat for most of the time.
00:41:04.520
So it's just like, it goes on so much more than people think.
00:41:09.120
And it's like, it's not even like a thought because it's just like, oh, it's private.
00:41:14.380
Snapchat literally has every single photo you've ever taken.
00:41:19.220
Also, anytime, anytime you send anything through the internet, whether it's a text or an email
00:41:25.180
or a picture or anything, you can just take a screenshot of it or a picture of it on an
00:41:34.200
And again, you're just not monetizing off of it.
00:41:41.560
So first year of marriage, all good, except you're dealing with people sending you these
00:41:46.300
nasty photographs and you're dealing with your family falling apart and your online
00:41:58.500
A lot of people that we've been friends with have been saying, oh, the first year of marriage
00:42:08.200
But for us, it's like, despite everything going on, it's like, this is actually pretty
00:42:21.560
The fact that we've been through what we've been through feels like a 12 years worth of
00:42:30.280
But we were talking about that the other day where it feels like we've been married for
00:42:43.760
I think it helps when you marry your best friend.
00:42:45.860
Because, like, we were friends before, like, I even found her attractive.
00:42:49.680
Because it was like, for me, it was her personality that I found most attractive.
00:42:56.600
But it's, like, she was able to, like, see who I was as a person rather than just somebody
00:43:04.480
Or, like, just, like, one of those kind of, like, friends where it's like, all right,
00:43:14.680
But, like, when we started FaceTiming and actually talking, like, she just…
00:43:20.420
Like, so long, just getting to know each other.
00:43:31.240
And he's had best friends, like, guy best friends and girl best friends.
00:43:43.380
So if you went further, you'd be afraid to lose it.
00:43:49.280
But then, like, being married, dude, we tell each other everything.
00:44:00.660
Like, I'm so weird sometimes and dorky and clumsy.
00:44:17.240
So when we first met on TikTok Live, he had a bulletproof vest on, like, level four vest.
00:44:23.240
And armor-piercing, like, rounds could go through that.
00:44:39.360
I just have, like, a ton of gear in case something pops off, basically.
00:44:45.740
We got enough food for a year, enough water for a year.
00:44:59.140
Because a lot of the criticism I've seen you get is that you're not doing enough, or you're
00:45:09.020
Well, that's because they're not in my personal life.
00:45:18.100
You know, but behind the scenes, I can't tell you how many messages a day I get of people
00:45:23.220
asking me questions, like, how do I fight this lust?
00:45:26.740
Hey, I used to be on OnlyFans, but now I'm not.
00:45:33.040
Like, that's all I do, and I'm trying to get some brand deals.
00:45:36.720
So, for me, it's just, like, I'm so behind the scenes doing stuff, answering people's
00:45:44.240
Like, we pray over so many people, because, like, people start coming to us, and they're
00:45:54.160
And, like, either one of us is, like, right on top of it.
00:45:57.640
Let's pray about this issue and see what happens in your life, because we believe in the power
00:46:08.500
You don't see how much I'm studying, how much I'm reading other books about Christ, how
00:46:11.720
much I journal, how long I listen to sermons for day in, day out.
00:46:16.600
Like, I listen to more sermons than I do music, because I just love them.
00:46:20.420
I feel engulfed and on fire, and I want to keep learning.
00:46:26.380
And that's the part of my life I'm not even willing to share, because it's so good.
00:46:44.020
So, I'm like, why would I share you the rest of my private life just so you can hate on
00:46:47.460
Then is there an argument to just get off social media?
00:46:53.180
I feel like I'm actually impacting so many lives.
00:46:58.060
Jordan even started this discord for men who are struggling with lust.
00:47:06.240
And if God does be like, hey, Nala, I need you to get off social media now.
00:47:20.080
I feel called to share my message and also keep studying the Word to see what God lays
00:47:26.100
on my heart to influence other people and help other people.
00:47:29.560
Because I don't feel like there's too, too many Christians that are viral, viral.
00:47:36.280
So, I'm like, why wouldn't I share God with 106 million people?
00:47:42.580
But I'm just going to keep sharing the same message, you know?
00:47:47.040
You can raise the price until they're all gone.
00:47:49.200
You say, well, I'm just going to keep talking about God until either people are welcome to
00:47:54.120
come in or the people who don't want it, you'll have to run away then because I'm going to
00:47:59.740
So, and again, I do not get paid for anything I post.
00:48:05.680
But I don't get any form of payment from any social media platform, sorry.
00:48:14.660
So, I'm like, I just don't know why people think I'm just getting paid millions still.
00:48:20.560
I'm like, number one, if I was sitting on a bag, I'd probably get off social media for
00:48:28.040
But you feel you need to make money just to support your household.
00:48:33.000
So, I want to be a big part in helping our financial situation.
00:48:36.960
But you are still making money from OnlyFans, even though you're not producing content.
00:48:41.740
So, with that money, that's going to household expenses, or?
00:48:51.020
From OnlyFans, from the people who aren't getting money.
00:49:02.560
It was only, the price was only raised for a very short period of time.
00:49:09.000
People are getting so mad that the price is raised.
00:49:12.280
In the sense that I like your strategy to raise it when you're going off.
00:49:16.860
And you figure, all right, these guys, if they're so desperate or they're so good,
00:49:21.320
But you could always take that money and donate it to a food bank or something.
00:49:24.340
But we, I stopped making any kind of income off of it in January.
00:49:35.620
I would love for the whole thing to just drop, but it doesn't ever seem to.
00:49:39.080
People just, like, want to be hung up on the same issue.
00:49:45.720
Broadly, it's very difficult to get out of OnlyFans because of all the sticks and carrots
00:49:49.040
and you feel like there's nothing else you can do.
00:49:50.680
But in terms of actual practical steps, if women are watching this who are working for
00:49:58.180
OnlyFans or they have their own websites or whatever, how do you do, how do you get
00:50:06.300
What happens if someone takes the video from OnlyFans and puts it on some other website
00:50:21.740
So they take, number one, I had a copyrighted legal note on my OnlyFans stating that if
00:50:28.080
you took this and separated it anywhere else, that kind of protects me.
00:50:33.020
They took it and ran with it and posted it on everything, Reddit, Telegram, all the sites.
00:50:38.080
And so this company sends legal notices as your legal advice or help and gets them taken
00:50:46.960
down because the next step is to sue them if they do not take it down because they stole
00:50:56.260
You can hire somebody who's cheaper, who won't do as many links, take as many links off
00:51:00.320
the internet, or you can go full-fledged lawyer and they write up those DMCA notices, send
00:51:05.480
them to the companies, and then the next thing is, hey, we're suing you if you're not taking
00:51:10.460
So it's more like a cease and desist, kind of like take everything down that you have
00:51:16.440
I haven't ran into the fact that somebody's not taken the stuff down so far.
00:51:21.480
The issue is that other people will pop up at random and just keep posting.
00:51:28.200
So they can continue to pop up, but I can continue to come back.
00:51:30.860
And my team searches for the links on Google, on everything, and just continues to have them
00:51:41.760
And in that time, you just got to wait until people kind of forget about you, honestly,
00:51:50.400
So just to get it out, I don't want people to continue sending that content around.
00:51:54.960
It takes time and it takes money if you're a team of lawyers.
00:51:58.460
And so what happens then if the site takes it down and then someone else uploads it again
00:52:06.260
Are you just doing this until people stop uploading it?
00:52:10.140
So on the one hand, you're offering people a little bit of hope, which is you can get
00:52:27.600
But, like, women who aren't as famous, it would be way easier for you to get your stuff
00:52:38.340
And other people are paying other people, selling it through a screen, acting like me.
00:52:42.240
That's the biggest part of what I've found is that even one of my critiques pulled this
00:52:48.280
up how somebody on Telegram with a verified account is selling my content.
00:53:04.940
And we are now, like, in a process to get that completely taken down.
00:53:14.440
And then on top of it, selling explicit content.
00:53:20.260
It's where they send out a bunch of your stuff for money.
00:53:43.540
And as time passes, I will be less and less famous.
00:53:49.060
But do you think there will be a day when there is not one picture, not one video, not...
00:53:59.680
And there's always going to be little smidgens.
00:54:11.640
The takeaway for a girl who's doing it is, you can fix a lot of this, but the warning
00:54:17.660
to the girl who isn't doing it yet is, there's always going to be some crumb.
00:54:27.900
Because then you, you then have other people seeing it who you would never want to see
00:54:35.900
You have no idea how crazy it is how certain people in my life found out what I did.
00:54:45.020
So, like, how they found out I was on OnlyFans was because, like, their buddy showed them at
00:54:51.160
And I was like, oh, like, why would you talk about that at work?
00:55:00.380
And it's just odd to me that that's, like, how people operate.
00:55:03.900
But, yeah, if it could deter people from doing it, that is one big deterring route.
00:55:14.960
And then you will have to live with that consequence.
00:55:16.720
And you'll have to pay money on top of that to get rid of it.
00:55:25.960
And it's like, I feel very passionate about it because I go TikTok live.
00:55:29.860
And that was, like, my main source of income after getting off OnlyFans.
00:55:34.180
I sit in there in, like, a hoodie just talking to people.
00:55:41.500
It's, like, where you're put on a split screen on TikTok and people throw gifts at you to win the battle.
00:55:57.020
It's basically, like, your team versus, like, let's say, her team.
00:56:01.080
And, like, who can get the most amount of points on the screen.
00:56:15.540
But along with what Jordan was saying, like, there's a mission.
00:56:23.960
Or what can I do before I get on OnlyFans to pay for things?
00:56:32.900
My agency takes nothing from the creator at all.
00:56:35.300
I'm just here to mentor you in helping you make more money.
00:56:47.120
That agency, like, if I was over myself in an agency, TikTok takes 50%.
00:56:53.400
The agency takes 10% of what TikTok took from the creator.
00:57:04.120
Like, I've been talking to quite a few girls in OnlyFans and off OnlyFans.
00:57:09.260
Two of them are converts already, have already converted to Christianity after OnlyFans.
00:57:14.400
And they would love to join my agency just because they want to be mentored.
00:57:18.540
And we can just start this mission of helping girls.
00:57:23.140
Like, if that's your biggest issue, join TikTok.
00:57:34.240
On the one hand, it is very hard to make a dollar in this world.
00:57:36.660
But if you want to be absolutely just sitting at home, here's your remote work.
00:57:41.560
And if you have that much time, go TikTok Live all day.
00:57:46.760
But it focuses in on a different source of money and income.
00:57:50.500
Now, again, you could make more income on TikTok Live than you would ever on OnlyFans.
00:57:58.560
Like, I just got so lucky making that kind of dough.
00:58:01.740
But, yeah, that's what I feel called to as well.
00:58:06.160
It's like, you know in the Bible where it talks about, like, don't just pray for somebody to have a shirt.
00:58:16.120
It's just, I'm not just going to pray for you to not join or pray for you to get off.
00:58:21.500
Let me help you, teach you, guide you in this so you can make income in a different way.
00:58:26.920
You know, what's that saying about, like, if you give them an official eat for a day, but if you teach them how to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime?
00:58:33.420
There's also something, I suppose, to, I guess my first instinct is if a girl's doing OnlyFans, she should throw out all her computers and cameras and just do something totally, radically different.
00:58:44.440
However, if that's not going to happen, there is something also to, hey, you've developed certain skills, and some of them you're going to forget about those skills.
00:58:52.720
But some other skills, you can speak into a camera.
00:58:58.760
If there is an off-ramp to OnlyFans that still involves a lot of that and it's not totally foreign, maybe that's not the worst thing in the world.
00:59:07.800
I would agree because, like, let's say it would just be such a shock if you go from content creating, content creating, content creating for OnlyFans and then not content creating anymore.
00:59:17.940
It's kind of like a, it's not as crazy as PTSD, but it's quite a shock because it's like that's what you're used to.
00:59:25.900
That's what you do for money, and now you're retraining to do something completely different.
00:59:30.180
You're still, like, in the audience's eye, but you're being clean now.
00:59:34.400
And TikTok will not allow, like, nudity, nothing like that.
00:59:40.080
So it's very clean, collected, and you can make good money off of it in the comfort of your own home, which is the whole lie that OnlyFans sells you, is that it's in the comfort of your own home.
00:59:49.720
You're fine, but you're not selling your body on TikTok.
01:00:03.120
Maybe because I've been in politics and in show business.
01:00:12.840
But I sometimes think back, oh, five years ago, I said this thing.
01:00:18.660
And it, I'm not saying it quants my sleep at night, but it comes back to me every so often.
01:00:26.360
So I feel like the Holy Spirit will, so, okay, going back a little bit, in the book of Psalms
01:00:35.060
And I continually pray that prayer just over Scripture.
01:00:42.660
And so when I do that, I find that the Holy Spirit has brought almost visions of the past
01:00:49.280
And it's to, I feel like He does it for repentance sake and healing.
01:00:55.840
So this, like, He brings random things into my brain at random times, and I know I need
01:01:01.720
Whether it's a prayer of not repentance, but help me learn and help me grow in this area
01:01:09.560
I'm so sorry for treating this person that way.
01:01:18.820
So why wouldn't He recall things that you need to be taught?
01:01:24.200
It played over in my head this conversation I had six years ago.
01:01:27.240
I actually should have said it this way, and maybe that would have been better.
01:01:30.420
I find that on the whatever podcast, I should have done a couple different things.
01:01:43.260
I love to have my quiet time, like, a couple hours before bed.
01:01:47.160
Because He's off doing something, and I can just sit wherever I'm at and have my
01:01:53.440
And The Awe of God, the book by John Bevere, recommended taking 10 to 30 minutes in quiet
01:02:03.180
Just welcome Him into your atmosphere and think.
01:02:07.180
Like, just open your mind up to what Holy Spirit's going to lead you into.
01:02:13.640
Sometimes I'm like, oh, I need to go here in the Bible.
01:02:16.060
Sometimes it's like praying repentance over something.
01:02:21.940
Or sometimes it's just being quiet because He's not speaking all the time.
01:02:25.480
So I'm just, like, sitting there in this quiet time, and I'll get a vision of the past.
01:02:39.240
But I think about him, and I'm like, I get this vision of him doing something.
01:02:45.280
I'm like, I don't know why I'm having this thought right now.
01:02:47.980
I need your help and guidance in this area because it's really hurting me.
01:02:56.580
And when I think about my dad, yes, it's tragic what's going on right now.
01:03:04.720
And he would never hurt me like the ways that my dad has hurt me.
01:03:07.980
So there's just, like, this redirection of my thoughts.
01:03:14.540
And that's what I feel like I'm getting out of this time alone when I get visions of something.
01:03:20.540
Sometimes it's just something I need to, like, really pray about.
01:03:23.760
Are you still speaking to your father amid all this?
01:03:25.920
No, I haven't spoken to him since, like, last March.
01:03:28.440
So I have a really hard thought in my head to go to see him in prison in a jumpsuit.
01:03:34.520
But it's kind of like, will I get traumatized from this?
01:03:42.860
Because he wrote me some really horrible emails before he went to jail.
01:03:53.000
So he wrote me just some horrible things that a dad should not say to their daughter.
01:04:00.120
And I feel like he truly feels that way about me.
01:04:04.900
And I feel like if I'll go see him, it'll just be a bad experience.
01:04:10.920
But I also don't want to wait, you know, because I don't know if I'm ever going to see him again.
01:04:16.560
And if you have a life sentence at 60s, like, you're not going to get out.
01:04:26.160
Because you say, I have a heavenly father who is a perfect father.
01:04:30.480
And I have this rather imperfect earthly father.
01:04:33.640
You just have to honor your father, even if he's awful.
01:04:45.840
And my counselor is just like, you should write a list, a pro and con list of why you should go see him.
01:05:10.080
I'm really like, it's, my whole life feels like a big traumatic thing.
01:05:26.660
But thinking about all my family again just stirs up this like feeling of not being wanted.
01:05:31.640
And it's like a really hard thing for me to continue to grasp.
01:05:35.420
It's just not being welcomed back into the family that I loved.
01:05:42.780
You check basically all the boxes of girls who are going to go into porn.
01:05:57.260
And I've now spoken to a handful of people who have been on OnlyFans.
01:06:06.360
You know, we, we, life is somewhat predictable.
01:06:10.540
It's not totally predictable, but it's somewhat predictable.
01:06:24.420
I personally know women who have at least considered going on OnlyFans.
01:06:31.860
But I do know women who have considered that because of all the reasons.
01:06:42.900
I understand brokenness, though, and how brokenness puts, it almost pushes you into this mindset
01:06:53.220
So, in my head, I'm like, I need full control of my life because it's been out of control
01:07:02.160
Even though I was doing porn, I'm like, I have control over this.
01:07:14.480
You're like a paid director, which they can absolutely substitute at any point.
01:07:24.220
And love shows through so much and not just be like, oh, I love you.
01:07:27.480
It could be like just showing empathy towards what they're going through.
01:07:31.560
Sometimes people just need somebody to hear them.
01:07:35.520
Like somebody to absolutely just listen and understand their pain and situations.
01:07:47.720
Being somebody God sent to just be loving and empathetic and listen.
01:07:54.080
Because brokenness drives people to like those two scenarios, courage or weakness.
01:08:09.200
But the world makes OnlyFans look so delicious.
01:08:13.440
And yet it ends up giving you heartburn and probably tears your stomach.
01:08:19.180
And you're just, it's like the worst cake you've ever had in your life.
01:08:26.460
So if I could warn of any of those issues, if they're open to conversating.
01:08:34.580
The biggest thing I'm seeing is that they're concerned about finances.
01:08:38.580
I find that to be the number one concern for women who are thinking about going into OnlyFans
01:08:51.240
You know, how am I going to provide for myself?
01:08:54.060
It is an easy out, but it comes at such a taxed price that you can't pay it after a certain time.
01:09:00.520
And then you're, again, in the hamster wheel, slaving away the entire time.
01:09:05.060
When you say taxed, do you mean just literally or you mean metaphorically as well?
01:09:08.740
Honestly, you get taxed very heavily for being on and making that kind of money.
01:09:14.520
Basically, no one makes the kind of money you made.
01:09:16.300
But, again, you just pay a price for everything that you do.
01:09:22.640
you're still causing people to sin by, like, lusting after that.
01:09:26.760
You know, the whole internet's filled with that.
01:09:29.620
You know, like, that's what they want to show without having an OnlyFans.
01:09:32.740
But we're still showing enough skin to make people stumble.
01:09:39.660
So, yeah, again, I'm sorry I got off a little topic there,
01:09:46.700
Like, what's that breaking point that's going to make them make that decision?
01:09:50.760
But if I can go in and provide value to who they are by just seeing it, observing, praying over them.
01:10:04.060
You know, like, as in, like, God doesn't control you.
01:10:09.900
Yes, I see God's power working and moving and putting people in place to try to stop those people.
01:10:21.580
What do you make of the two viral porn moments I've seen in the last two months?
01:10:30.900
This woman, Blue Bonnet or something, she's British.
01:10:34.960
She went into a Five Guys burger place, and someone was secretly recording.
01:10:48.660
And then she propositioned the guy and said, come on, after your shift, let's go.
01:11:01.300
But that went viral, and truly, within the last 24, 48 hours.
01:11:06.780
And then the other one was this girl who looks kind of like her, but she's younger,
01:11:12.180
who slept with 100 men in a day and says she wants to sleep with 1,000 men in a day.
01:11:17.100
What struck me about both of those episodes, these are the two mainstream porn moments of
01:11:35.560
I don't, I didn't see that going around happily.
01:11:40.920
Where she's fully clothed, and she's just talking about this, and she's crying, and
01:11:43.680
she's clearly upset by it, but putting on a brave face.
01:11:46.200
And then the other girl, obviously, was fully clothed.
01:11:48.840
What do you make of the titillating porn now not even really being directly related to sex?
01:11:59.280
Well, you have to understand that the internet has boundaries, too.
01:12:03.740
You, like, at this point, OnlyFans has come in by such a storm that social media sites are,
01:12:11.360
like, really, like, hunkering down on sexualized content.
01:12:15.620
So, you, like, after a certain point, if your account has been flagged so many times, or
01:12:20.520
shadow banned so many times, you have to change things up.
01:12:25.160
But with, like, the girl who wants to sleep with, like, a thousand men to break the world
01:12:29.260
record of it, not showing gives you more of, like, I need to see.
01:12:39.680
You just heard something, and now you're so extremely curious, you just have to go find
01:12:46.320
Like, if I was back in the business, I'd be, like, A1 marketing right there.
01:12:50.740
You know, because you don't always need to show anything.
01:12:53.280
You know, you could just show that she's, like, an attractive-looking woman, saying
01:12:56.300
if she's going to get rammed by a thousand guys in a day.
01:13:04.980
You're curious about, like, is that actually possible?
01:13:12.340
I wondered if there was something darker there, which is that the scene that went viral
01:13:16.780
with the girl who slept with a hundred guys, it was her kind of crying, tearing
01:13:22.820
And then with the scene of the woman in the burger place, it's her just debasing herself.
01:13:30.580
And I wondered if we've reached such a point of ubiquity with nudity and sex that actually
01:13:38.640
all that's left to titillate people is just watching.
01:13:44.440
Women just degrading themselves in the most pathetic ways.
01:13:49.760
If that's actually, even if they're fully clothed.
01:13:56.700
Just because, like, in this generation now, I mean, look at anything being sold.
01:14:03.120
So it's always someone who's either dressed sexually or something like that.
01:14:07.040
And it's like, that's what, like, everyone wants to, like, see.
01:14:10.820
But it's like, in all reality, it's like, a lot of people don't really want to see that.
01:14:15.080
But for people who follow the world, they're like, yeah, let's go.
01:14:29.540
So I feel like, you know, when you are not living for God, the devil will tempt you with
01:14:33.580
all of these things, like sex, all this, like, nudity.
01:14:39.020
When you get married, though, the opposite happens, where you almost find, like—you
01:14:44.340
go through points in your marriage where you're just kind of like, we had this moment
01:14:48.760
where we were talking about porn sex and normal, like, loving sex.
01:14:58.020
You're shocking every 16-year-old boy out there.
01:15:02.120
It's different because of the person and that covenant that binds you two together is now,
01:15:13.300
But the devil will try to trick you and be like, oh, you're too tired right now for that.
01:15:18.160
Like, it's breaking apart your, like, physical sexual bond as a couple.
01:15:22.860
But when you're not married, you're just dating.
01:15:26.720
Like, that drive for corniness is, like, there.
01:15:32.800
So now we're at the point where girls are getting called bops and, like—
01:15:38.000
This air-headed girl who's just willing to basically sell herself.
01:15:42.260
We believe that is what—I've been called it multiple times.
01:15:45.700
So whatever this new word means for this new generation,
01:15:48.740
we've been so desensitized throughout generation after generation
01:15:51.920
that it just got more and more and more and more seasoned.
01:16:04.500
I can't imagine what it's going to be in just 10 years from now
01:16:07.200
if it's already this blunt and, like, out there.
01:16:15.380
besides for the guy working at Five Guys, apparently,
01:16:24.440
I don't want to call her that, but she would probably be described as a bop on the internet.
01:16:30.180
But it's so crazy that we've come this far, that sin is so in your face.
01:16:37.420
On your phones, you're scrolling, and it's temptation after temptation.
01:16:42.140
I love this point, though, that when you're not married,
01:16:45.260
the devil tempts you to sleep with everyone around you.
01:16:47.700
And then when you are married, the devil tempts you not to sleep with your spouse.
01:16:53.920
even religious people who take the marriage covenant sacrament seriously—
01:17:01.720
you don't need to sleep with your spouse all the time.
01:17:05.140
Being Catholic, there's a little bit of an emphasis on procreation.
01:17:10.160
Traditionally, it's actually considered a sin to deprive your spouse of the marital right without
01:17:20.860
There has been times where I'm like, oh, man, I'm just so tired.
01:17:23.840
But that verse comes into my head about submitting to my husband.
01:17:32.840
Like, I'm being called to submit to my husband, who I am married to, not to my boyfriend.
01:17:49.500
I'm talking to an imaginary boyfriend right next to me.
01:17:55.520
I've actually talked to quite a few married couples that are Christian and non-Christian about
01:18:02.260
And when you become very close friends with them, sometimes they'll talk about their sexual
01:18:10.280
Not much eating going on, but—so it's kind of like they all share their kind of different
01:18:17.340
kind of stories, takes, and they've all been married in different age ranges, all that kind
01:18:22.540
But I find that sex is not like almost as prevalent in some couples as it is in others.
01:18:30.620
And it's almost like time had kind of worn it down.
01:18:34.200
But it's like, I think, as a married couple, that's what separates you from being just buddies.
01:18:43.580
It is extremely important to have sex with the one that you love and are married to because,
01:18:50.860
And it's what, again, separates you from just being friends.
01:18:54.180
You know, like that is important to continually tie that back into your marriage and give it
01:18:59.320
And it's funny because we talked earlier about you've had theological confusion, as has everybody.
01:19:04.420
But here you're speaking with great clarity, much greater clarity than I hear even many—
01:19:08.820
Probably because I'm not being cussed at and yelled at and called a whore.
01:19:17.300
But, you know, this distinction, what distinguishes a marriage from a couple of roommates or—we've
01:19:24.440
redefined marriage in our law at the Supreme Court in a very ridiculous way.
01:19:35.880
And a traditional definition of marriage is that marriage is a union of a man and a woman,
01:19:41.440
a permanent union of a man and a woman for the sake of the procreation and education of
01:19:47.880
children, and as a secondary matter, for the mutual support of the spouses.
01:19:51.740
Now we seem to have flipped that, so we think, oh, it's just about supporting each other
01:19:55.680
in our needs and actually forget about kids, and you don't even need to have sex, but if
01:20:04.680
I wonder—I was talking to a friend of mine before this interview, and I said, what is
01:20:09.360
I was floating my thought on why the mainstream pornography moments are so weird now.
01:20:15.240
He said, well, I think so many people are addicted to pornography, and it actually makes
01:20:20.060
them less capable of doing the real thing and less inclined to get married.
01:20:24.220
He said, because they're very different actions to be, you know, looking at pornography and doing
01:20:31.900
And being procreative, that that's actually—the difference—pornography and the attendant activities
01:20:43.340
So much of our modern culture, many modern marriages are sterile as well.
01:20:49.360
Maybe it's a little bit of a blurrier line in modern life.
01:20:56.740
It can be—we've seen from different couples that it seems to be very sterile.
01:21:01.160
And we even promised ourselves, like, we're never getting there.
01:21:04.400
Like, we will do anything it takes to put us above kids or, you know, whatever it may
01:21:09.940
But we are important to each other, and we always want to share that importance because
01:21:17.140
It's something that we've dedicated our now future to, our entire future to.
01:21:21.340
So that's pretty important to work on, I think.
01:21:23.440
And I think, honestly, sex in marriage is like 40% of the marriage.
01:21:30.260
There's a lot of moving parts, but I think it's so important to have intimacy.
01:21:37.500
This is one of the arguments against contraception.
01:21:41.620
But one of the arguments against it is, in a marriage, you're supposed to give fully of
01:21:47.540
And so you can get pretty close, but with contraception, you are withholding something.
01:21:55.140
And—but to say that—people are going to go crazy just hearing that in this interview.
01:21:59.620
Because even religious people, even conservative people, even—they'll say, well, hold on
01:22:05.000
You mean—you mean really radically, totally give of yourself and be totally open to life?
01:22:10.320
What percentage of people, even who are married, behave that way?
01:22:16.940
Because if you are not—if you get into a marriage and you are not willing to change,
01:22:21.920
you will have problems for the rest of your life.
01:22:24.600
Because the biggest thing we have learned in this marriage and through arguments and disagreements
01:22:34.820
You need to take your expectations off the table.
01:22:38.440
Because we all have expectations, maybe not about the full marriage, but when circumstances
01:22:42.540
happen, you have an expectation almost immediately.
01:22:45.320
If you take that away and leave the canvas open, it's more beautiful that way.
01:22:51.300
And you don't feel like your painting has been now messed up.
01:22:54.000
It is just a blank canvas, and you can appreciate the art in that.
01:23:00.480
You need to be willing to sacrifice even little things sometimes.
01:23:06.020
That's most what people argue about, is small things.
01:23:09.540
Do we go to Chinese food or Burger King tonight?
01:23:17.680
But yeah, I just feel like, again, sacrifice is the most humbling thing you can do.
01:23:34.380
But let's really try to avoid an argument through this.
01:23:45.560
When you have so much on your plate, as a brand new married couple, it's difficult.
01:23:53.940
And then you have to understand the way they deal with things.
01:23:57.100
And it has to become like a pattern to you, so you understand it.
01:24:02.700
Like, I get to see him do the exact same thing in every fight.
01:24:11.800
So how can I not even just change, but redirect?
01:24:18.520
And it's actually helped in our arguments so much.
01:24:22.040
Just letting each other finish, respecting the time that they have and what their thought
01:24:27.460
process was or is on a certain topic, and then kind of going from there.
01:24:34.400
The kind where you do it on TV, and it's to totally destroy the other guy for the benefit
01:24:40.040
But then there's the debate you have with your friend or your spouse, which there's
01:24:44.060
nothing good to be gained from totally destroying, with facts and logic, the other person.
01:24:48.420
Because this other person is part of your flesh.
01:24:52.340
So you have to bring them along, or you can get divorced.
01:24:55.880
Now, some people are betting against your marriage.
01:24:59.900
I will take you on that bet, and I'll raise you $10.
01:25:05.640
Well, I just think that's, like, the enemy speaking clearly.
01:25:08.320
The enemy does not want people to get divorced.
01:25:10.220
Is there any circumstance in which you would ever get divorced?
01:25:19.400
Some would argue it's not biblical, but I understand the verse you're reading.
01:25:22.040
Yeah, well, like, let's say he cheated, or committed adultery.
01:25:27.320
I would first go to the Lord to see if that was actually what he wanted.
01:25:31.200
Because people can stay and work through issues and the mistrust.
01:25:40.200
It would obviously hurt so, so much, and vice versa.
01:25:43.140
But that would be the only scenario where I'd actually consider a divorcement.
01:25:53.660
We should just write a whole, like, Nala dictionary.
01:26:02.740
You know, I love that attitude of, I will not divorce my wife.
01:26:05.900
One of your chief critics and I, we were having a conversation about this.
01:26:10.120
And I said, she said, would you divorce your wife?
01:26:13.320
And I said, there is no circumstance in which I would ever divorce my wife.
01:26:19.460
And I said, no, that would be terribly painful.
01:26:22.220
I would make my life a misery for a great deal of time.
01:26:25.500
But no, there is no circumstance in the universe in which I would ever divorce my wife.
01:26:33.420
And she was shocked by this, scandalized by this.
01:26:36.100
Now, I would make a bet of any number of dollars that my wife would not do that.
01:26:45.060
And I would say, even then, you know, what God has joined, let no man separate.
01:26:52.020
It would seem to me that as a matter of the natural law and certainly of our Lord coming
01:26:57.380
down in the new covenant, divorce is just off the table.
01:27:01.840
And the reason that I think it's really important as a practical day-to-day matter is if you know
01:27:08.720
that there's no way out, if you know that there is no, you are just with this person for the rest
01:27:14.420
of your natural life, I think you're going to be much more likely to make things work and to support your spouse and actually to flourish in every minute of the day than if you think there's even the slightest chance of a plan B.
01:27:35.860
We just know what the Bible says about divorce and like the only option pretty much is adultery.
01:27:51.340
We don't ever bring it up in like a hateful way.
01:27:54.280
It's not like a word we use because it's not in our forefront.
01:28:00.700
And if anything, God is here to help us work things out.
01:28:04.500
So I'm like, that's again goes back to not being selfish in your marriage.
01:28:08.620
If you are selfish and self-sufficient and everything is about you or your other partner, it's not going to work.
01:28:15.200
You will carry this resentment through your marriage because you didn't get what you wanted.
01:28:23.080
It's what both of you can accomplish together and as a team.
01:28:26.740
And I just find that we've found that so nicely.
01:28:33.060
And there's been a lot of sacrifices on both ends.
01:28:44.160
Like when he messes up, I find that God is calling me to be graceful.
01:28:50.000
Like if my thing is like if we can make it through this and like be joyous, like coming out of it.
01:28:57.380
It makes me kind of like question people getting married now and getting divorced after a year.
01:29:05.720
But two, also we're going through the craziest thing like that's happened was like in less than a year.
01:29:15.620
It's just like I guess like the question would be what is the strength that we have that other marriages lack?
01:29:27.620
But also the ability to see her as more than an object but also as my best friend and partner who like I'm on this mission with.
01:29:41.900
You know, it's like I know she has my six and I know I have her six.
01:29:45.500
And it's like our mission is to spread the gospel, you know?
01:29:48.480
It's like this life here on earth is very temporary, you know?
01:29:52.280
Like I said before, like I'm not guaranteed the next five minutes.
01:29:55.580
So it's like I'm going to live like it's my last day, you know, my last day with her.
01:30:00.200
So it's like I'm going to continuously try to do my best for her and also for God.
01:30:05.440
So it's like for me and for anyone else out there, it's just like really dig in because like this is the area where it's like you're testing out your battle.
01:30:21.540
So it's like are you going to fight or are you going to give up?
01:30:23.740
That's an insightful observation that you and your spouse are not merely there for the enjoyment of one another.
01:30:32.320
You are actually doing something together because I cringe a little when I hear people refer to their spouse or their boyfriend or girlfriend as their partner.
01:30:44.500
But when they'll introduce you, say this is my partner, Skylar or something.
01:30:48.480
I think, oh, you guys have an accounting firm together?
01:30:52.920
Sometimes a man and a woman will say this is my partner, your partner.
01:30:57.760
Or they'll say, oh, I'm just so glad I found, you know, my person.
01:31:07.200
My more liberal, you know, relatives and friends.
01:31:13.300
And it's, you know, teehee, I promise always to put the socks in the hamper.
01:31:22.780
But the focus at a deeper level seems to be on how is this person going to amuse me?
01:31:30.680
And how are we all going to just have kind of a fun time?
01:31:33.200
But what you're describing is, no, we're doing something.
01:31:37.140
And so in this case, you're describing evangelism and missions.
01:31:39.680
But even at the basic level of a marriage, what is a marriage?
01:31:45.980
You have God the Father, eternally beginning God the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
01:31:50.400
Who is the bond of love between the Father and the Son?
01:31:55.320
That the love between the Father and the Son is so real that he is a person of the Trinity,
01:32:03.120
And you think within a marriage, a husband and a wife love each other so much that in
01:32:08.540
principle, some people suffer infertility, but in principle, they love each other so much
01:32:16.560
And now all of a sudden, you have this family, which is bigger than either of you individually
01:32:21.620
or even the sum of its parts, and that is doing something, that is moving through time and space.
01:32:28.020
You're not just sitting in a room figuring out where to go to brunch next.
01:32:37.300
Whatever God has called us to, we don't know what that looks like.
01:32:41.100
But sometimes God doesn't give you the full picture.
01:32:43.700
And right now, those pieces look like, for me, reaching out to the women in this industry,
01:32:59.160
So that's all we consider ourselves is just discipling others with the knowledge that we
01:33:07.820
Because there's so many times where I'm talking and I look back on that, I'm like, wow,
01:33:14.480
Thank you, Holy Spirit, so much for just guiding me through this.
01:33:18.680
So it's been quite an amazing journey speaking to the amount of people that we've spoken to.
01:33:25.660
Like, it's been crazy because it's different people from like all different kinds of walks
01:33:32.420
And you're like, I don't know how to help you in this area directly.
01:33:37.780
Let's get some discernment on this because we don't know.
01:33:42.100
So let's talk to the one who does know about it.
01:33:45.080
So all we can do is continue to lead people towards Christ like you were referring to in
01:33:54.880
Like, again, everything could be stripped from us like Job.
01:33:58.040
But the whole point of it is to be a servant of Christ, servant, a disciple, somebody to help
01:34:03.860
We're not here for ourselves in this temporary residence.
01:34:07.020
And even in heaven, we won't be there for ourselves.
01:34:12.820
Seems like the direction is what's really important here.
01:34:15.920
Because you think, you talk to someone that they can't perfectly articulate, I don't know,
01:34:21.460
you know, the nature of the Trinity or something.
01:34:23.520
And you think, well, I can better articulate that.
01:34:27.060
There are a lot of things that I can't articulate that someone like a St. Augustine or St. Thomas
01:34:33.100
But then you think St. Thomas Aquinas, probably the greatest theologian ever to live, he had
01:34:37.940
He said, everything I've written is like straw.
01:34:40.240
He wanted to burn his works because he said, okay, he had a mystical vision of God.
01:34:46.680
But, you know, in our limited human reason, is there really all that much difference between
01:34:53.340
someone who's been living the faith for 10 years and a catechumen or a novice or someone
01:34:59.200
who's just kind of, you know, maybe there's like that much difference, you know, but the
01:35:02.980
difference between that and the reality of God is infinite.
01:35:07.720
So isn't it just, if you can talk to these young women or to these young men, just kind
01:35:13.140
of going down the wrong path and you kind of just help turn them a little bit.
01:35:16.380
And, you know, as long as they keep moving in the right direction, that seems rather good.
01:35:23.160
Sometimes those seeds have been planted by others, but we need to come along with some
01:35:27.120
water or some sunlight or just continue to fertilize that seed until it actually can
01:35:34.040
You know, being grounded is a hard thing, like being a seed.
01:35:37.260
Think about how difficult it is being underground.
01:35:39.360
With all of this dirt on top of you, you're not seeing sunlight.
01:35:42.520
You're just getting drowned in water and you're just like stuck.
01:35:45.720
But then when there's growth, it's like this breaking point, you're breaking through the
01:35:49.680
soil and you're like, oh, the sun was there this whole time.
01:35:56.160
But you needed those people that God put in place to help come along and help that process
01:36:03.000
So if I'm just one of those people who just helps fertilize or helps water or helps be
01:36:07.140
the sun or actually plants the seed, I'm here for it.
01:36:13.960
We've talked about the women who are in porn or OnlyFans and that's its whole own difficulty.
01:36:22.080
But probably the broader problem, more widespread problem, is these young men who are the ones
01:36:31.100
So for me myself, like I used to struggle with porn up until a couple of years ago where
01:36:38.680
And I was just, I just needed to let go because like the biggest struggle for men, because I
01:36:43.400
feel like over 50% of men, if not over 80% of men have seen porn or watch porn.
01:36:50.420
Um, but my whole thing is like, I would always be in that moment where I'd be like, all right,
01:36:55.880
just like, just one more time, one more time where it was just kind of like, exactly, exactly.
01:37:01.400
It was like day one, I got to stop, you know, one day or day one, you know, I got to stop.
01:37:10.220
You know, what does the Bible say about sexual sin?
01:37:13.300
Do not fight it, you know, because you're not going to win.
01:37:16.320
Um, so that's where I let really just God take over control where I was just like, all
01:37:21.780
right, I got to actually start doing things to keep me away from this path.
01:37:28.020
And what I've implemented, I started a discord where men like can just click by link and join.
01:37:35.800
My friend Nadine's actually helping all the girls.
01:37:38.600
Um, they're kind of like, they're separated groups, but, um, girls who perform in porn or
01:37:52.240
Um, and I have a couple of other people helping me as well.
01:37:54.940
Um, but it's pretty much just helping each other.
01:37:57.740
Just when they're in their weak moments, just messaging in the chat or having their accountability
01:38:03.200
partner, um, and just like reaching out to them, calling them and be like, yo, like,
01:38:08.620
Can you just help and just stay on the phone so we can just like talk to just distract me from,
01:38:12.780
you know, that urge that the enemy tried to put in my life.
01:38:16.320
Um, so for me, it's just like, I, I feel really called just to help the men, you know,
01:38:21.600
not, not because of her past, but like even just help the men.
01:38:24.920
I've been helping men just before, um, like we even met.
01:38:29.000
I've been helping men just like get closer and break free out of that.
01:38:31.400
Cause I know exactly how hard that struggle is to break free.
01:38:35.280
And porn must be the most widespread sin that men deal with.
01:38:46.660
There aren't that many people, you know, doing carjackings.
01:38:50.680
Oh, that means Chicago, but, uh, but, uh, for, for me, it's just like, yeah, lust is the biggest thing.
01:38:56.660
Like what I said before, it's like, it's everywhere.
01:38:58.300
You see it on billboards, magazines, anywhere you look, there's something that lust.
01:39:01.800
And that's always like the entry point, like the gateway to, you know, watching porn, you
01:39:07.420
know, that's how you have like minors watching porn and it's like, it's too accessible.
01:39:12.760
One, like it's got to start with the parents, but yeah, you, you have to be able to help
01:39:17.520
these people before they even step in that doorway of like, okay, you know, this is, this
01:39:22.980
is a little risque, but like, I'm going to, I'm going to stay away from it, you know, rather
01:39:28.740
No, that peak is a straight elevator shaft that you're going to fall down and you're not
01:39:34.380
going to know where the button is to get back up.
01:39:37.340
He's the light, you know, he's the light in the shaft where it's like the buttons right
01:39:42.640
I have noticed this just in my own life that if, if I am in a state of grace, I, I can resist
01:39:52.360
sin pretty well, not really through power of my own, but, but I can resist sin thanks to
01:39:56.320
And then sometimes you're tempted by a sin and it can be not just lust, it can be an angry
01:40:02.180
word or it can be pride or it can be anything, it can be any sin.
01:40:05.740
And there is a moment where you're tempted, but you, you could say no, but the moment you
01:40:11.480
start entertaining it, considering it, indulging it, then you're going to be more tempted.
01:40:17.460
And then once you commit it, the kind of traditional understanding of this from the
01:40:20.840
Johannine epistle is that there's mortal sin and venial sin and venial sin wounds you and
01:40:29.600
And when you, in my experience, when one commits a mortal sin, it's a lot easier to sin and
01:40:38.780
And one can confess one's sins and receive absolution and, you know, be restored to a
01:40:45.520
But some people who are unfamiliar with this are going to think it sounds kind of high in
01:40:51.820
I found this to be very practical, very tangible, that the moment you start to cooperate with
01:40:58.860
sin rather than with God, it's like down a mine shaft.
01:41:08.640
Like it gets easier and easier and your justifications in your head continue to justify what you're
01:41:14.820
And then it goes back to the whole, like, well, I'll just get saved or I'll just repent
01:41:22.160
Like you actually knowing that you're going to sin and then sinning, like you have the thought
01:41:27.460
process of going into it that you know you're sinning.
01:41:35.940
But it's obviously not going to happen in this lifetime.
01:41:41.400
Like I feel like a lot of people like to think of God as like this big guy who's just going
01:41:51.700
You can love God, but if you do not fear him, you will not obey him.
01:41:57.740
So I also read a really great book about that too.
01:42:01.280
And it really put into perspective about, you know, I was like really diving deep into like
01:42:09.320
And now people did that in the Bible where they were just trembling over seeing an angel
01:42:12.880
or hearing God's voice, you know, and not even fully seeing him, but like Moses with
01:42:27.060
following them, you know, like you understand the decisions they're making, or maybe you
01:42:33.320
That's like mad respect for who they are, what they've done.
01:42:37.000
And we all need to reserve this place in our hearts where there is fear of the Lord.
01:42:50.120
And even you point out we have, there's so many sins and there are so many sins, but
01:43:04.080
Sin is a violation of a relationship with grace.
01:43:06.980
And there are rules and the rules are guardrails to help you navigate that.
01:43:10.580
But I'd be curious your experience talking to these guys who are reaching out for help.
01:43:17.180
You know, sin is not just, okay, I'm going to look at that website, but not that one.
01:43:24.420
But it's like, that's technically on this side of the, that's not really how it works,
01:43:36.300
But yeah, because like the one thing about God is like, he can hear your thoughts.
01:43:41.980
You know, the devil doesn't know your intentions, but God does.
01:43:44.920
So it's like, God's also going to search your intentions.
01:43:47.580
You know, on judgment day, he's going to search the intentions you did, you know, behind closed
01:43:51.720
doors, you know, what you thought about certain things or what you did for certain reasons.
01:43:56.440
And it's like, God's going to judge you accordingly.
01:43:58.240
So everyone thinks they're Scott, like free and clear, Scott free.
01:44:02.140
And like, even though the people you're around might be like, oh my gosh, you know, like,
01:44:12.040
So God's going to just you, like justify, you know, what's going on.
01:44:17.720
And they say, no, well, look, I do bad things all the time.
01:44:22.000
But in a really abstract way, you know, I've kind of got good intentions.
01:44:31.440
When you do something that you're trying to argue is technically okay, or you're doing
01:44:36.120
something that seems right, but with really bad intentions.
01:44:42.420
Like they think you're doing something right by lying, but you're actually lying, you know?
01:44:54.940
You know, and that's what also helped us like get over all the hate was like, oh, these people
01:45:00.340
They're just talking to talk and be noticed, which you're actually blaming me for.
01:45:05.940
It's kind of like the hypocrisy behind it is like, you think I'm just over here trying
01:45:25.380
You'll be shocked to hear that even for so lovable a figure as I, sometimes people will
01:45:33.460
It actually, now I think this might be a very Catholic perspective where we kind of focus
01:45:40.560
But I, I think there can be something good about it when you get all the hate.
01:45:45.040
Well, one, it's when we suffer, we bind ourselves to Christ who has the perfect sacrifice on
01:45:58.600
Because the thing is, the haters get a lot of things wrong and they make stuff up and it's,
01:46:04.800
But sometimes, you know, they'll say, oh, you shouldn't have said it that way.
01:46:13.980
Maybe sometimes you do something that you shouldn't have done.
01:46:17.200
And so that, it is a good way to mitigate pride.
01:46:22.660
It's one of the reasons I don't really block people very much on social media.
01:46:28.700
Unless they're just being outright inappropriate with me.
01:46:36.160
It was more just, okay, God, I accept the haters too.
01:46:39.980
Like, you know, help me love them like you love them.
01:46:44.960
Because I'm not about to just start commenting back or making videos now about what's going on,
01:46:53.820
Because now it's like, I am just acting like you now and not like Christ.
01:47:07.760
If I was dealing with this maybe two and a half years ago, I would have reacted very differently
01:47:15.260
But I can't do that anymore because I do not represent me.
01:47:19.460
So, I think that's the biggest lesson we've probably taken out of all of this just concentrated hate against him, against me.
01:47:35.200
I don't know the etymology of it, but it's kind of funny.
01:47:40.460
I think it's like, pretty much it comes down to, it's like, God gets the glory.
01:47:50.740
I have a friend in the Bronx who says, buddy, boy, you do your best.
01:48:11.340
Yes, well, it really shook the internet the first time you came on.
01:48:15.040
And I think the story is really quite lovely and deserves to be told.
01:48:29.260
How has your faith changed from your conversion to now?
01:48:41.240
My faith has grown in every single day since I've been saved.
01:48:46.160
There's not been like one day where I haven't concentrated time to Christ.
01:48:51.580
Whereas I'm praying, I'm journaling, I'm reading my Bible, I'm listening to sermons, listening
01:48:57.240
to worship music, and having that time together.
01:48:59.880
It's grown in ways that I really can't explain because I can't explain God very well.
01:49:05.900
But my relationship with Him has taken a turn where I feel like I'm truly myself with Him.
01:49:16.940
Instead of praying like I think I need to pray, I'm like, God, how can I pray to You?
01:49:23.460
I feel like I'm in a very teachable time in my life where I just need to be open to what
01:49:28.580
God has for me and not make assumptions about things because I've been very wrong.
01:49:34.000
So humbling, it's been very humbling and teachable.
01:49:37.680
That's, if I could describe it in two words, that would probably be it.
01:49:40.240
Because I find that every single time I pray, I'm running into something where it's like,
01:49:49.300
Or I took this verse one way when you were trying to take it a different way.
01:49:52.680
Or, you know, it's just constantly either apologizing to Him or it's just more like,
01:50:07.260
Journaling has probably been something that has been almost like a therapist to me.
01:50:12.640
In the book of Habakkuk, God says to write down your revelations, like what God has done.
01:50:16.840
And I found that so powerful because I can look back and see prayers that I've prayed
01:50:23.160
And what I found out of that is that God truly cares about your heart and your heart's intent
01:50:31.460
But God cares about your heart in ways where when I've prayed about my marriage, I see that
01:50:38.140
God, it answers my prayer in my marriage because He knows that's part of my heart.
01:50:42.280
So I'm like, wow, it has brought so many revelations through tiny prayers and just being
01:50:50.880
And even admitting, this was a concept very hard for me to understand, but even admitting
01:51:05.020
I didn't believe you when you told me this promise in your word.
01:51:13.300
Like, that's how I feel like my relationship with Him is just very sensitive, humbling,
01:51:23.180
Like, you know, when I became a Christian, I just thought so much was going to change.
01:51:32.920
So as in, yes, I gave up a lot of stuff, but I'm still me.
01:51:37.500
So it's like, hmm, like, what else do you want to reveal to me, God?
01:51:49.860
And I've gotten so many amazing books, like Power of a Praying Wife, and that's an amazing
01:51:56.060
It's an amazing paradox that in some respect, everything changes.
01:52:19.700
Just, like, not doing OnlyFans, I haven't changed.
01:52:22.480
But, like, in other ways where I've been so stubborn or unwilling to sacrifice or not
01:52:37.880
And it's just so precious because for everything that I'm going through with God, there's been
01:52:44.820
Or if there hasn't been answers, I just know that I need to obey.
01:52:48.580
And I'm not always going to get the answer why I need to obey.
01:52:56.440
There's a wonderful charm to saying, okay, I'm going to start praying.
01:53:03.380
Well, I guess my first prayer is, how should I pray?
01:53:08.840
Your point on prayers, answered prayers, this happens to me.
01:53:14.900
Sometimes I'll pray for something very, very specific.
01:53:16.820
Then my prayer will be answered, and it will take me days or weeks to realize that my prayer
01:53:31.620
I literally, I was just about to fall asleep, and I was like, write down the revelation.
01:53:36.360
I wrote it down on my phone notes, and then wrote it down in my journal this morning.
01:53:41.960
Because we, sometimes our minds are just faulty.
01:53:44.120
And I don't ever want the devil to be like, did he really?
01:53:49.060
Like, this is what my God did for me in my life, and has changed me drastically because
01:53:55.580
Like, this answer that he gave me to my prayer.
01:54:02.040
And the rosary, you pray five mysteries, which are the decades, and you meditate on the mysteries.
01:54:07.620
And you, so, and it's every day, it's a little bit different.
01:54:10.680
So there's the glorious mysteries, there's the resurrection, the ascension, the descent of
01:54:14.260
the Holy Spirit, the assumption, the coronation.
01:54:16.160
Then there are the sorrowful mysteries, you know, the agony in the garden, the scourging
01:54:20.020
at the pillar, the crowning of thorns, the carrying the cross, the crucifixion.
01:54:24.000
Then there are the joyful mysteries, which is the annunciation, and through the birth
01:54:28.640
of our Lord, and the presentation of Jesus in the temple.
01:54:34.620
Some people pray another set of mysteries, but those are the three that I pray.
01:54:39.600
So you think, it's got to get kind of boring after a while, right?
01:54:46.160
I've noticed when I pray my rosary actively, and I'm not distracted, and I'm not driving
01:54:59.360
I see something new about the presentation or finding Jesus in the temple.
01:55:03.420
I bet I could pray this for the rest of my life and for another 10,000 lives, and I would
01:55:10.020
always see something new because these are mysteries that are endlessly plumbable.
01:55:19.180
It's not that almost every single one of those situations is a mystery, but God himself is
01:55:24.140
a mysterious God, and we won't fully even comprehend him until we get to heaven.
01:55:28.680
So I find that too in my relationship where I find out a new thing, and I'm like, oh, you
01:55:33.540
I need to tear down that wall of what was built up in thought that I thought was sure
01:55:39.800
So being humble in that, and then rereading certain scriptures does that to me all the
01:55:46.720
Or listening to sermons where the pastor's explaining a passage of scripture, and it's
01:55:55.580
When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were in the fiery furnace, it doesn't say that the
01:56:02.680
It says that the king saw him, but it doesn't take notice of the fact that the boys did
01:56:10.720
They just knew he was going to be with them, you know?
01:56:13.100
And I was like, huh, see, that's just a very tiny example of certain things that I've been
01:56:17.440
learning, and I'm like, wow, just scripture just constantly changes because it's the living
01:56:34.720
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to go into like the whole thing.
01:56:37.900
All right, so basically, I became a Christian in 2021 after a really rough relationship.
01:56:47.440
And yeah, I mean, I've just been going straight towards God.
01:56:51.460
That's like the biggest thing, and he's been really just helping me through life in general,
01:57:00.100
and especially just like being married and actually taking that first step, you know,
01:57:04.400
You know, I've always wanted to get married, and finally, now I'm married.
01:57:07.780
But it's like, what do I have to, like, who do I have to be and what do I have to do as
01:57:11.560
a husband in marriage, like cultivating a wife, you know, leading her closer to God, all these
01:57:18.040
But also, most importantly, like, how can I improve her?
01:57:22.580
You know, how can I improve, you know, the way I treat her?
01:57:25.240
How can I improve her life, you know, both spiritually and like physically?
01:57:32.700
But also, it comes into the point of like, all right, so God did this for me.
01:57:39.080
How can I have other people experience this love?
01:57:42.840
Because as a generation, every single person who is single right now, or maybe even with
01:57:51.700
Everyone wants to be seen, heard, understood, valued, and just feel important.
01:57:56.940
And it's like, a lot of people will go to porn to feel something, will go to alcohol, go
01:58:03.060
But in the end, it's like, all they want to feel is love.
01:58:07.680
And that's what God was able to do in my life and able to do in her life is he was able
01:58:12.640
to really just show me that there's more than the world.
01:58:17.300
There's more than just trying to fill that empty void with something.
01:58:27.960
It's when you start acting selflessly is when life actually starts to change and when you
01:58:33.440
can actually be the change in the world, you know, be the change that you want to see in
01:58:39.300
There's an insight of St. Augustine who argues against the Pelagians who say you've basically
01:58:47.160
But he's also arguing against the idea that you don't have to do anything at all.
01:58:50.860
And he says, it's summarized as, God made you without your participation, but he won't
01:59:01.600
He said, but St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians that he is doing these things.
01:59:06.940
He should be the least of the apostles, but he's actually doing more than them.
01:59:12.920
It's not, as St. Augustine says, it's not just God's grace.
01:59:25.800
But it didn't even maybe feel like a rough go of things because he's doing it for the
01:59:37.080
I'm glad to see things are going well because, you know, you judge the tree by the fruit.
01:59:45.220
After the next round of the season, we'll do a third.