The Michael Knowles Show - February 01, 2025

＂You LIED About Everything？＂ Michael & The Prodigal Daughter 2 ｜ Nala Ray

Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 59 minutes

Words per minute

196.42102

Word count

23,548

Sentence count

2,133

Harmful content

Misogyny

38

sentences flagged

Hate speech

39

sentences flagged

Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Nala Ray is a former porn star who left porn and converted to Christianity and has engendered support from people who were happy that she converted, and a great deal of hatred and disdain from other people who believe she lied about her conversion.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).

Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .

Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .

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00:00:30.240 Really shook the internet the first time you came on.

00:00:32.480 I got in so much trouble for talking to you.

00:00:34.580 I know you haven't. I appreciate that.

00:00:36.940 They say very nasty things about you.

00:00:38.700 Oh, yeah.

00:00:39.080 Oh, we know.

00:00:39.720 You were a lying, deceiving prostitute. 1.00

00:00:41.800 You said that you lied about everything.

00:00:44.200 People were tagging me on social media and they said,

00:00:46.360 See, Michael, here's proof that she lied to you.

00:00:49.440 Everything I've said on podcasts is complete clickbait.

00:00:52.820 Why do you think people want you to be lying?

00:00:55.840 That happened to her. I can't believe that it's real.

00:00:58.600 Because then that means I can change my ways and still get saved.

00:01:02.700 She was brought up in the church.

00:01:04.140 Is this mental illness?

00:01:05.440 People have criticized you because they say,

00:01:07.600 You made all this money. Where's the penance?

00:01:09.320 They say you should give all your money away.

00:01:17.860 I have never had a more passionate reaction to any interview I've ever conducted

00:01:22.840 than I did to an interview I had a year ago with Nala Ray, a former OnlyFans star

00:01:30.700 who left pornography and converted to Christianity

00:01:34.860 and has engendered support from people who were happy that she converted

00:01:40.640 and a great deal of hatred and disdain and contempt from other people.

00:01:45.860 So I figured, all right, year anniversary.

00:01:48.280 Let's bring her back with her husband, Jordan. 1.00

00:01:52.540 Jordan, Nala, thank you for coming back to Nashville.

00:01:55.680 Thank you, Michael.

00:01:57.020 I got in so much trouble for talking to you.

00:01:59.420 I know you haven't. I appreciate that.

00:02:01.960 Thank you for bearing that burden.

00:02:03.220 I've interviewed lots of controversial people.

00:02:06.860 You have.

00:02:07.880 Politicians, cultural figures.

00:02:09.840 But you, something about you drove people up a wall.

00:02:14.860 Yeah.

00:02:15.260 So I'll tell you the first thing that people came at me with.

00:02:18.040 They said, Michael, this girl, Nala, lied.

00:02:23.000 Maybe she didn't lie about getting married. 1.00

00:02:24.460 I guess you guys are pretty clearly married.

00:02:25.840 But she lied about quitting porn.

00:02:28.720 Her porn site is still active.

00:02:30.360 She lied about her conversion.

00:02:32.340 She's not really Christian. 0.94

00:02:34.020 She lied about everything.

00:02:35.020 And she duped you, Michael.

00:02:36.700 You weren't mean enough to her.

00:02:38.260 So what do you say?

00:02:39.300 Was I duped?

00:02:40.520 No, you absolutely were not.

00:02:42.200 I feel like even in our first interview,

00:02:44.580 you felt how genuine it was.

00:02:47.320 And you even remarked on that.

00:02:49.240 And I feel like from one believer to another,

00:02:51.660 again, you can just sense the spirit behind that.

00:02:54.480 And what I find so confusing

00:02:57.400 is why people think that Christianity is so popular.

00:03:00.300 It was even more popular than what I was doing

00:03:03.160 when I already had that audience

00:03:05.040 before becoming a Christian.

00:03:07.520 So again, I don't know why people thought

00:03:09.620 I became more famous because I was Christian now

00:03:12.860 or how they think that becoming a Christian

00:03:15.820 is going to sell more on OnlyFans.

00:03:19.040 So I don't understand that.

00:03:21.060 And I'm not here to just rage bait

00:03:22.900 people we've talked about or anything like that

00:03:26.680 because it's like at the end of the day,

00:03:28.400 it was just a sacrifice I made

00:03:30.100 and it was between me and God.

00:03:31.760 And I could say that I was a Christian

00:03:33.260 and continue doing OnlyFans,

00:03:34.800 but we know that there's no truth behind that.

00:03:37.300 Or I could truly give my life to God

00:03:40.080 and see what He has for me

00:03:41.740 by sacrificing OnlyFans and people in my life,

00:03:45.840 the money, the fame, all of that,

00:03:48.080 just to follow Christ.

00:03:49.620 I had no idea I was gonna gain any kind of following

00:03:52.060 or lose all of my following for becoming a Christian.

00:03:55.660 So again, I just wanna address

00:03:57.660 why people think Christianity is so popular 0.94

00:04:01.200 and it was such a click-baity thing for me to do

00:04:04.720 just to become a Christian.

00:04:05.780 Well, it's a good story.

00:04:07.280 It's a good story to say someone

00:04:08.580 who was living in sin and vice

00:04:10.920 has had this total conversion.

00:04:13.360 At least that attracts someone's attention.

00:04:16.100 Yeah, of course.

00:04:16.640 Even if it attracts negative attention from the world.

00:04:18.720 But I haven't looked into it happily,

00:04:23.160 but people say you kept your OnlyFans side up.

00:04:26.120 Yeah, so Jordan can shed some light on this too.

00:04:28.480 So what happened in the beginning was

00:04:30.140 when I had told him originally,

00:04:32.320 I'm deleting my OnlyFans,

00:04:33.860 I had full intent to delete my OnlyFans.

00:04:36.660 I even showed him we were right next to each other

00:04:38.700 when I pushed the delete button back in like January.

00:04:42.680 And what happened was I had so many subscribers,

00:04:45.340 OnlyFans won't allow you to close your account

00:04:47.700 until every single subscriber has unsubscribed.

00:04:50.920 Like they physically have to push the button.

00:04:53.560 But what they don't know is that

00:04:55.460 people sometimes are very inactive on OnlyFans.

00:04:59.680 So I am still waiting for the site

00:05:01.680 to be completely shut down.

00:05:03.580 However, you can't do anything.

00:05:05.940 I can't even log in anymore.

00:05:07.900 Everything's deleted off the site.

00:05:09.320 There's no price to get in, nothing.

00:05:11.860 So OnlyFans has disabled the site,

00:05:14.100 but it's not down yet, if that makes sense.

00:05:16.240 Okay, they said-

00:05:17.100 You can't do anything.

00:05:17.700 The other thing people said was you raised your prices.

00:05:20.480 So actually you profited.

00:05:21.340 I'm going to share some light on that.

00:05:22.000 Yeah, so for me, as a person who does spend money smartly,

00:05:27.240 I was like, you know what?

00:05:28.260 Like just raise the price.

00:05:30.380 Because this is after she deleted everything.

00:05:33.400 So I was like, you know what?

00:05:34.020 Raise the price because they're going to pay for nothing.

00:05:35.760 And they can see that there's nothing.

00:05:36.960 So it's like, why would you pay for that?

00:05:39.100 Right.

00:05:39.600 But it's like still some people paid for it.

00:05:41.100 I'm like-

00:05:41.380 Before you subscribe, you can see the amount of how many photos a model has on her page

00:05:46.460 and how many videos, but they were all zero.

00:05:48.520 So why would you pay to get into account by one not having a profile photo?

00:05:52.360 It's like a blank page.

00:05:54.320 So like, why would you pay for that?

00:05:55.760 And they're like, if I set it to free, I would gain so many subscribers.

00:05:59.720 And that would take me even longer to get off.

00:06:03.080 So in our heads, we were like, let's just raise the price.

00:06:05.980 No one's going to pay for zero photos to see or anything.

00:06:08.460 It would certainly discourage people.

00:06:09.920 Yeah, exactly.

00:06:10.540 Just trying to.

00:06:11.440 Because the whole point was, OnlyFans was telling me, I can't,

00:06:14.920 it won't be completely deleted until 2026.

00:06:18.200 And I was like, oh my God, like we can't wait that long.

00:06:21.160 So what can we do to like discourage people from signing up?

00:06:24.900 You know, no one's going to pay like a $50 price to get into something that has nothing in there.

00:06:29.340 You should have raised it to $10,000 a month.

00:06:31.560 We couldn't.

00:06:32.200 Otherwise, I would have tried.

00:06:33.660 I would have tried.

00:06:34.320 $50 is the limit.

00:06:35.660 So we were like, okay.

00:06:36.860 I think the scary part is people still paid for it.

00:06:39.220 And I'm like, bro, you see that there's nothing there.

00:06:41.020 There's nothing in there.

00:06:42.960 Nobody's chatting.

00:06:44.240 Like, I was just done with it.

00:06:46.120 Was it new subscribers or was it just people who, because I forget to cancel Netflix or whatever.

00:06:50.920 There was like only old people left in there.

00:06:53.680 I'm down to like 2,000 subscribers.

00:06:56.020 Last OnlyFans emailed me.

00:06:57.620 There's like 2,000 subscribers left in there, they said.

00:07:00.200 So I'm like, okay, hopefully.

00:07:01.900 I was even thinking about putting out a message on my social.

00:07:04.820 Like, if you are subscribed to my OnlyFans, please unsubscribe.

00:07:07.380 So I can get this completely shut down.

00:07:09.360 But I also didn't want to draw more attention to it.

00:07:11.620 Yeah.

00:07:11.740 So I feel like if I just leave it alone and OnlyFans, like their team can just help me with whatever they can.

00:07:17.180 But they take forever to respond.

00:07:18.820 And when they do, they're not even speaking like English.

00:07:21.800 So I'm like having a hard time with that.

00:07:23.400 I had a thought once that I would start an OnlyFans page, but it would just be me reading Italian poetry or something.

00:07:28.900 I think you told me that in the first interview.

00:07:30.840 I was like, huh, that's interesting.

00:07:32.200 You smoking a cigar.

00:07:33.240 I thought no one would subscribe.

00:07:34.420 But I don't know.

00:07:34.800 People pay for nothing on there.

00:07:35.980 So maybe.

00:07:36.640 Apparently, man.

00:07:37.380 Pretty much.

00:07:38.400 Now, the other criticism I saw of you is that you went back on the Whatever podcast.

00:07:44.300 You had been on the Whatever podcast when you were active in porn and said all sorts of crazy things.

00:07:50.160 Crazy things.

00:07:50.720 Then you go back.

00:07:52.120 Then you came on my show, which was probably the first big interview after you converted.

00:07:55.320 It was, yeah.

00:07:56.140 And I was very honored to have that conversation.

00:07:59.060 And you said, so I'm all done with that.

00:08:01.300 But then the criticism I saw was you went back on the Whatever podcast and you said that you lied about everything.

00:08:08.940 I did.

00:08:09.420 And this was clipped out.

00:08:10.960 I think it was 90 seconds or two minutes.

00:08:12.280 I remember your video explaining this because there was no, like, there was nothing leading up to that video.

00:08:19.640 It was just that video.

00:08:20.940 People were tagging me in it on social media and they said, see, Michael, here's proof that she lied to you.

00:08:26.400 She said that she lied to you because she said she lied about everything on all these podcasts because mine was the first podcast that she went on. 0.97

00:08:33.700 I thought, oh, maybe she lied to me. 0.99

00:08:35.840 Then I looked at the context, though.

00:08:37.200 That does not appear to be what you were saying.

00:08:38.520 It was not what I was saying.

00:08:39.880 But people love clickbait.

00:08:41.200 So what were you saying?

00:08:41.780 So in that moment, I had been asked by somebody on the screen to explain, like, because Andrew was asking me, hey, like, how should I believe you now, now that you've, like, come this way and blah, blah, blah.

00:08:53.680 And so for me, I was like, well, before I was playing a character, social media is clickbait.

00:08:59.700 I knew what I needed to say and do to get more subscribers, to get more money.

00:09:04.100 It's just a funnel.

00:09:05.380 So for me, I was like, I wanted to go back on the whatever podcast to explain more of, like, everything leading up.

00:09:13.520 Not that I owed them an explanation, but that was kind of where all the raunchiness started was that podcast.

00:09:19.020 And I wanted to go back and give answers and really, like, just show that I am different.

00:09:24.500 Whether people want to believe me or not, that's fine.

00:09:27.420 But there were so many questions popping up in my comments, just like you're getting, talking about me lying and all this.

00:09:33.460 And, like, I just walked away with $14 million and all this stuff.

00:09:36.940 And I'm like, no, let's set the record straight here.

00:09:39.340 This is not what happened.

00:09:40.740 Although I did not know Andrew was going to be on it.

00:09:42.660 I was kind of, like, blindsided by that.

00:09:45.380 But, yeah, I just feel like people would love to believe that I'm lying.

00:09:51.100 But it's just, that makes it so much more difficult than it actually is.

00:09:54.440 Like, the truth is way more simple to believe than this lie that everybody is creating about me.

00:09:59.480 On that point, people, either they don't like you or they do like you or they don't want to believe you or they do want to believe you, people can believe whatever they like.

00:10:08.280 But I thought it was quite disreputable of people on social media to clip that out in such a way that it made it seem like you were saying the opposite of what you quite clearly were saying.

00:10:20.620 Whether people like you or they don't like you, it's pretty clear what you were saying to me.

00:10:24.820 Why do you think people want you to be lying?

00:10:27.880 That's a hard question to answer.

00:10:30.720 I feel like most people are upset at the fact that I did what I did and was able to be saved.

00:10:37.660 And people almost, you know when you watch the news and how negative it is and people love that negativity rather than positive, you know?

00:10:46.040 You showed all good news on the news.

00:10:48.080 I don't even know if everybody would watch it because that negativity just drives you.

00:10:52.680 So when you see a story like mine and then you're just like, wow, that happened to her, I can't believe that it's real because then that means I can change my ways and still get saved, you know?

00:11:05.680 Or people who've been in the religious area for a while or been a Christian most of their life see somebody like me.

00:11:14.160 And like the prodigal story, we were just talking about that, how, you know, the brother was so mad that the other brother came home and got this huge feast.

00:11:22.560 And he's like, I've been here this whole time working in the fields, you know?

00:11:25.960 Why does he get this?

00:11:27.060 And I've been here this whole time.

00:11:28.360 Why does he get welcomed back like this?

00:11:29.960 I feel like the hater's mindset is that brother who's upset that somebody like me could go squander my earnings and come back and is like willing to be a servant almost.

00:11:40.560 And then just gets welcomed back by their father with a feast and robes and gold and just like is just so welcomed into the family when I've been such an outcast.

00:11:51.740 It's almost like, hey, why are we letting somebody like her in our circle?

00:11:55.860 It's this Christian mindset that I continue to find of like religious spirit instead of a relational spirit with Christ, 0.79

00:12:03.140 where people should have a relationship with Christ rather than a religion surrounding God.

00:12:08.620 Some of us would say religion is a good thing.

00:12:11.840 It's a habit of virtue that inclines the will to give to God what he deserves.

00:12:14.620 Some would say, like St. Thomas Aquinas, but I see your point.

00:12:17.780 The distinction between a kind of rigorous legalism and a fruit of the spirit being acted out.

00:12:24.540 Religion isn't bad. 1.00

00:12:25.560 Like we're Christians, that's religion.

00:12:27.320 You know, that is our religion, that face.

00:12:29.480 However, I feel like as Christians in that religion, we walk with Christ in a relationship that is day by day.

00:12:39.640 The living person, the God of the living God.

00:12:42.060 So I totally see that point.

00:12:45.080 And I get why the son who stayed with the father is irritated when the prodigal comes back.

00:12:52.080 I totally get that.

00:12:52.640 You can empathize with that.

00:12:53.800 Absolutely.

00:12:54.160 But the point you just brought up is even more interesting to me, which is you said offhandedly,

00:13:01.620 well, some people don't like the idea that I, having been as bad as I was, could be saved

00:13:06.880 because that says something about the possibility of their salvation.

00:13:10.820 I was just talking to a friend of mine, an irreligious person, who said,

00:13:17.040 well, I don't like religion because it threatens you with hell. 0.96

00:13:20.880 And I said, well, there's some hope though, too.

00:13:23.020 You don't have to go to hell.

00:13:24.140 Yeah.

00:13:24.740 And this friend of mine said, well, I'm a little too far gone for that.

00:13:29.620 And I was taken aback because I said, you just have contrition and you confess your sins.

00:13:36.080 Yeah.

00:13:36.520 And you ask God for help and cooperate with God's grace.

00:13:39.980 And no, it'll be like two seconds.

00:13:41.440 You can do it.

00:13:42.200 It's not a hard process.

00:13:43.640 Yeah.

00:13:43.800 And that's what I feel like when I was getting into a debate with two certain individuals

00:13:47.740 about how I needed to read church history in order to grasp the gravity of my Christianity.

00:13:55.260 But yet in Romans, it has two specific things that I needed to do, which was speak with my mouth

00:14:01.680 that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart.

00:14:03.740 That is two things.

00:14:05.280 It is not a laundry list of things that I needed to do to cleanse myself because I cannot cleanse

00:14:10.680 myself.

00:14:11.760 Christ with the blood of Jesus cleanses me.

00:14:14.560 So again, I hit on that point because I almost feel like this jealousy nature of the people

00:14:22.040 who are coming after me consistently, that they want something so bad and they're mad that

00:14:28.680 they didn't get the shot that I did.

00:14:31.180 But the reality of it is they have that opportunity.

00:14:35.100 We all have the exact same opportunity.

00:14:37.280 It's not harder for anybody else and it's not easier for other people.

00:14:40.360 We have the exact same opportunity.

00:14:42.480 But I've heard people say the exact same thing that you're talking about how, oh, I'm too

00:14:46.420 far gone.

00:14:48.160 I'm like, me, I thought I was a bit too far gone.

00:14:52.440 I went too far.

00:14:53.520 I can't reverse where I've been.

00:14:56.860 The only thing was to just keep going forward because I couldn't go back.

00:15:00.960 I can't take this back.

00:15:02.680 So with following Christ, it's just about, and even God promises in the Bible to throw your

00:15:07.860 sins in a sea of forgetfulness as far as the East is from the West. 0.99

00:15:11.620 So if you're like, other people may not be able to forgive you and you can't be redeemed

00:15:16.540 through other people.

00:15:17.640 And I might spend the rest of my life with people doubting me and thinking I'm a liar.

00:15:21.920 You will.

00:15:22.380 You certainly will.

00:15:22.940 I will.

00:15:23.640 But my God is so much bigger than that and has already forgiven me.

00:15:27.660 So I have nothing to worry about.

00:15:29.240 And people will say, well, this is cheap salvation.

00:15:33.240 It's inexpensive.

00:15:34.200 That's true.

00:15:34.700 Actually, it was bought for a very heavy price.

00:15:38.720 Free, actually.

00:15:38.760 You're right.

00:15:39.140 Free to you.

00:15:40.060 Not free on Calvary.

00:15:42.200 But some people will say, well, then why can't I just sin, live it up, do a bunch of porn and

00:15:47.700 drugs and whatever.

00:15:48.820 Do everything.

00:15:49.060 That was my exact thought process.

00:15:50.880 And people will say, why can't I have a deathbed conversion?

00:15:54.020 First of all, good luck planning that out.

00:15:56.100 I'd say the biggest thing is that you weren't guaranteed tomorrow.

00:15:58.340 You know, I'm not guaranteed the next five minutes.

00:16:00.680 So if I act out here because of like my selfish ways, my selfish wants, and then I don't know

00:16:06.880 what's going to happen in the next five minutes, then like I'm dying in my sin, you know, living

00:16:11.280 for sin rather than living for God.

00:16:13.440 Right.

00:16:13.660 But that's such a selfish thought too.

00:16:15.300 Like, let me live a little bit more for me.

00:16:17.220 I'm not ready to give me up and do what God wants me to do when God promises that what

00:16:21.880 he has is far greater than what we could ever think or imagine.

00:16:24.920 So it's like, you're really downplaying and dumbing down your version of life when God

00:16:30.960 is like, hey, no, I have a way better plan for you if you would just accept me and follow

00:16:36.100 me.

00:16:36.760 And even if you don't get hit by a bus, even if you make it to 99 years old, the way

00:16:43.100 people think it's going to play out is they're just going to remain totally rational.

00:16:46.560 They're going to forget that sin darkens the intellect.

00:16:48.300 They're just going to remain totally rational.

00:16:49.740 They're going to be degenerates their whole lives.

00:16:51.640 And then the last minute, ha ha, they're going to get it.

00:16:53.840 But what really happens, at least in my experiences, the more you sin, the more you turn away from

00:16:59.200 God, the more comfortable you get in that, the more reluctant you are to respond to God's

00:17:05.460 grace.

00:17:06.020 And it's just, you're just probably not going to have a last minute conversion.

00:17:09.920 It seems to me, you know.

00:17:11.020 That's true.

00:17:11.860 You've been sitting in your sin for what, 99 years now?

00:17:14.640 And at some point, you might not even think there's a God anymore.

00:17:17.120 Or something could have changed her mind along the way.

00:17:20.080 Or, you know, you just like feel like, oh, I've been a good person.

00:17:23.100 I'm fine, you know.

00:17:24.700 Or who cares?

00:17:25.440 Or you might not even be mentally capable to make that decision at that age.

00:17:28.960 Right.

00:17:30.040 So.

00:17:30.660 You mentioned the Whatever podcast and being hit for all these theological things.

00:17:34.940 The one clip I saw that I also probably disagreed with some of the tactics in this clip.

00:17:42.260 Like, one of the guys on the Whatever show caught you in a theological error.

00:17:46.880 Yes.

00:17:47.100 Caught you in denying the divinity of Christ.

00:17:49.640 Ah.

00:17:50.640 How did that all happen?

00:17:51.860 What's your take on that?

00:17:52.840 What do you believe?

00:17:53.640 Was I denying it?

00:17:55.200 It is divine.

00:17:56.580 I know that there's a father, a son, and the Holy Spirit in their roles.

00:17:59.640 What he got upset about was the fact that I misused the word part instead of person.

00:18:04.800 But in my head, it's the same thing when I'm speaking about the Trinity.

00:18:08.400 So I do not deny it.

00:18:10.280 And I've been hit on so hard for that.

00:18:13.100 And it's just saying a word that he did not like.

00:18:17.940 That's how I feel.

00:18:19.240 And he's more, he's orthodox.

00:18:21.500 So I don't understand his points of views on certain things.

00:18:25.260 And the way he came at it was just baiting me, I felt like,

00:18:28.720 instead of just genuinely having a conversation about what I actually thought and believed.

00:18:32.580 In fact, it was just the opposite of yelling, screaming, and cussing at me.

00:18:36.140 So I was like, I was feeling heated.

00:18:38.380 And I said what he thought was like the wrong word and then spouted off about it.

00:18:43.640 I would go even further than that.

00:18:46.480 You fell into a theological error, it seems to me.

00:18:49.340 I've done that myself.

00:18:51.600 In fact, it's very difficult to speak about the Trinity,

00:18:54.800 the central mystery of the Christian faith, without falling into errors.

00:18:59.400 There's a great video put out, I think by some Lutherans,

00:19:02.280 with little leprechauns trying to describe the Trinity.

00:19:06.140 And one guy, he tries, he says, well, you know, well, you know, it's sort of like water.

00:19:10.600 You know, water and mist and ice.

00:19:13.700 And he said, oh, that's the heresy of modalism, Patrick.

00:19:17.120 Oh, okay.

00:19:17.700 Well, it's actually different parts.

00:19:19.200 That's the heresy of partialism, Patrick.

00:19:20.920 Wow.

00:19:21.120 And there's a story, probably apocryphal, in fact, certainly apocryphal, of St. Augustine

00:19:27.320 walking on the beach.

00:19:28.080 He's writing a Trinitate on the Trinity.

00:19:30.660 And there's a child on the beach putting water into a hole with a clamshell.

00:19:38.580 And Augustine says, what are you doing?

00:19:39.960 And he says, I'm going to fill the ocean into this hole.

00:19:43.420 And Augustine says, well, that's probably a stupid idea because you're never going to do that.

00:19:47.660 He says, that's right, neither will you fit the Trinity into your finite head.

00:19:50.940 And then he's transfigured into an angel and flies away.

00:19:53.960 And this legend tells a lot of truth.

00:19:57.880 If one can speak without error about the Trinity, but one will never speak comprehensively about

00:20:04.740 the Trinity because you cannot fit God into your head.

00:20:07.220 You cannot.

00:20:08.840 That makes a lot of sense.

00:20:10.120 So then what do you make of that kind of experience?

00:20:12.100 I mean, you say, okay, darn, I shouldn't have said that, or I misspoke, or...

00:20:17.380 You know, at that point, I think I did pretty good with the situation I was in.

00:20:22.880 As far as, yes, maybe falling into a theological error.

00:20:26.500 However, in my mind, I feel like the people coming against me were trying to make it way

00:20:31.380 harder than it actually is.

00:20:32.880 No, no, we cannot fit it all into our brains.

00:20:36.380 But for me, I see it clearly.

00:20:39.200 And what I was being accused of is having like a makeshift potato head Jesus in my mind.

00:20:44.000 And like, that's my salvation.

00:20:45.840 But I've read quite a few amazing books, like one called The Holy Spirit by John Bevere.

00:20:50.500 And that really helped me shape the identity of the Holy Spirit and what His role is here

00:20:57.220 on earth in us, living in us.

00:20:59.120 And then the role of Jesus in the awe of God and the role of God and where they're placed

00:21:05.320 right now on earth.

00:21:06.400 And like, and I'm just like, okay, so I do need to study more.

00:21:10.820 I would love that opportunity to understand it more.

00:21:13.740 But I don't think personally in my walk with Christ that understanding the theological side

00:21:22.220 of all this, it's getting too complex.

00:21:25.800 It's like, listen, I'm not trying to not learn, but I think that it's bordering a line

00:21:31.020 of religion that I'm not trying to steep into.

00:21:33.840 I want to learn more and I do not know everything and I will never know everything.

00:21:39.360 But I feel like it was bordering religious so hard that I'm like, I can't argue and debate

00:21:44.920 you on this because you believe something different than I believe.

00:21:48.240 I'm not even sure that we believe in the same God with the way you're speaking to me about

00:21:52.240 these things.

00:21:53.180 Because if you were truly, truly wondering about where I was and concerned about what I

00:21:59.260 believe in, you'd pull me aside and actually have a conversation, not a debate online.

00:22:04.060 As a true Christian, we come brother to brother.

00:22:06.720 Obviously, I'm not his brother, but I'm his sister in Christ.

00:22:08.840 And if you were truly worried, approach me with my husband and speak to me about these

00:22:13.320 things if you're actually worried.

00:22:14.780 But it doesn't come out of concern.

00:22:16.460 It comes out of clickbait.

00:22:17.620 And, oh, I caught this little OnlyFans girl trying to pretend like she's Christian. 0.97

00:22:22.700 That's just like what I saw in my head.

00:22:25.060 And it was just like disheartening that I can't actually have a conversation with somebody

00:22:28.620 who claims to be a Christian for some very long period of time.

00:22:33.180 I have a similar reaction in debates.

00:22:36.620 I engage in debates professionally, so I understand the role of debate.

00:22:38.700 You do.

00:22:39.000 You do it very well.

00:22:40.040 You're very kind.

00:22:40.740 Thank you.

00:22:41.020 But if I'm thinking of something like evangelism, one has to ask, okay, what are we aiming at

00:22:48.080 here?

00:22:48.580 You know, don't we want to help these people along?

00:22:51.540 Don't we want to encourage people?

00:22:53.660 What's the goal here?

00:22:54.880 You mentioned that in your last video defending me.

00:22:57.400 And I was like, he said it perfectly.

00:23:00.440 If our mission here is just to debate people and argue about theological issues or religious

00:23:06.660 issues, like that, then you've gotten all the glory from it.

00:23:12.120 But it's not about us.

00:23:13.840 It's about discipling too.

00:23:15.840 Like Jesus told the disciples to go out into the world and they actually stayed in Jerusalem

00:23:20.420 for a very long time.

00:23:21.700 And then Paul came along and was like, I'll take on the task.

00:23:24.460 I will go into the world and preach this.

00:23:26.840 And he wasn't even a full, like disciple.

00:23:28.720 He was an apostle.

00:23:29.680 So I'm like, if our goal here is just to argue, then you've won.

00:23:34.480 There you go.

00:23:35.080 There's your glory in that.

00:23:36.080 There's an important point too.

00:23:37.860 I care quite a lot about theology.

00:23:39.540 I'm not a theologian.

00:23:41.020 Many much more intelligent people than I and better educated people than I are theologians.

00:23:46.200 But you're not going to earn your salvation with a theological tract or even with theological

00:23:53.940 precision.

00:23:55.320 I'm not in any way downplaying the importance of clarity in your faith.

00:23:59.260 But Aristotle talks about this in the ethics, which is that you can know a lot about virtue

00:24:05.120 and not be a virtuous person.

00:24:07.460 What really matters is that you kind of put your whole body into it.

00:24:10.380 Yeah.

00:24:11.000 So then I guess the next question is, we're here a year later.

00:24:15.380 We spoke a year ago.

00:24:16.340 You got married almost a year ago.

00:24:18.000 What have you been doing?

00:24:21.080 How's it worked out?

00:24:22.780 So much.

00:24:23.460 I've been doing so much.

00:24:26.240 I don't even know where to start.

00:24:27.660 So much has happened in the time we've gotten married.

00:24:30.560 You're still married.

00:24:31.380 Yes.

00:24:31.600 We're still married.

00:24:34.560 Yeah.

00:24:34.960 But I feel like I've been going on a lot of podcasts and a lot of people like to think

00:24:41.860 that I'm just getting paid for all these podcasts and I'm just trying to soak in the fame.

00:24:48.020 I've actually prayed about every single podcast I've been asked on and I've actually turned

00:24:52.800 down quite a few because I didn't feel like God was leading me in that direction.

00:24:56.620 We're not paying you to be here.

00:24:57.800 They barely pay me to be here.

00:24:58.940 Yeah, so I don't, nobody pays me to go on all these podcasts and travel all around doing

00:25:06.940 a lot of podcasts.

00:25:08.100 We started our own company called Be The Change.

00:25:10.500 It's under Jordan. 0.91

00:25:12.140 Just for a bigger, we really want to share the message on being the change.

00:25:16.640 And Jordan and I both in our personal lives were like that change that we wanted to see

00:25:20.820 in the world and spread like that message.

00:25:23.720 And then we were trying to start a non-for-profit called Race to Change so we can go do mission

00:25:27.880 work.

00:25:28.200 We feel very called to the mission field wherever that is, but I know God calls us to be servants.

00:25:32.840 Like when Jesus came down to be man, he was such a servant.

00:25:37.100 He wasn't being served.

00:25:38.540 So I've spent my entire life being served and I want to serve now.

00:25:43.840 I want to give back and I feel like that's the calling on my life.

00:25:47.280 Now we've gone through so much.

00:25:49.320 My mom and dad are divorcing.

00:25:52.500 My dad's actually in jail right now.

00:25:55.220 There's so much that has happened in our life.

00:25:57.520 We moved to a place that I've never been to before.

00:26:01.880 We've gone through a lot of financial issues.

00:26:05.020 It's just life hit.

00:26:06.860 And then on top of that, dealing with every single day hate from the internet, which is

00:26:11.620 almost like we've had conversations where we're like, I can't wait until we're off of

00:26:15.820 social media.

00:26:16.480 But I don't think that that's God's purpose for us.

00:26:19.320 I think we are called to be evangelists and me to women and him to men.

00:26:24.880 But I feel like God's just working in so many ways in our life right now that it's kind of

00:26:29.960 unexplainable like what's next.

00:26:31.920 But just living day to day in a relationship with him has led us to incredible opportunities.

00:26:39.200 We've met some extremely strong Christian figures in our life that we both desperately

00:26:43.480 needed like mentors and things.

00:26:46.060 And that's been amazing.

00:26:47.480 What else for you?

00:26:48.620 Before we move on, you just brushed over a number of things.

00:26:51.560 Oh, a lot, a lot.

00:26:52.600 We did this last time and you made me cry.

00:26:55.460 I'll try to be a little softer this time.

00:26:58.060 You say your parents are getting divorced.

00:26:59.860 Your parents had been divorced.

00:27:01.500 They'd been divorced when I was nine.

00:27:03.300 And then they remarried and then are now as of last year, like in March, the same time

00:27:08.420 I was getting off of OnlyFans and getting saved, they decided to get divorced again.

00:27:12.280 Ah, sorry to hear that.

00:27:13.300 Yeah, it's okay.

00:27:14.620 And your father is in jail.

00:27:16.180 He's in jail.

00:27:17.040 He broke into my mom's home with like a gun and a knife and is sent to,

00:27:21.560 prison.

00:27:22.240 He'll probably be in there for life.

00:27:24.420 Oh, man.

00:27:25.720 Yep.

00:27:26.540 I'm terribly sorry to hear that.

00:27:28.160 Okay.

00:27:28.820 Because you like to think that when things start turning sunny in your life, like they

00:27:33.520 did about a year ago.

00:27:34.400 I think it's going to get better.

00:27:35.160 They'll just keep being sunny.

00:27:36.320 Yeah.

00:27:36.980 No.

00:27:37.580 How is the rest of your family taking that?

00:27:39.820 How is your mother taking that?

00:27:40.500 Oh, my mother is in like a very recovery stage.

00:27:43.680 I've been slowly but surely talking to her again.

00:27:47.160 I do find that she's finding some healing, but this is the first time she's been alone

00:27:51.140 in like almost 30 years.

00:27:54.500 So it's like a slow process for her.

00:27:57.860 My brothers and sisters are doing okay.

00:28:00.060 You know, I really didn't expect like the return that I had.

00:28:03.380 Like it's been a very odd return to my family.

00:28:06.360 Like my siblings don't exactly like accept me, I feel like.

00:28:11.460 And he's even heard some conversations over the phone with them where my little sister

00:28:15.100 was complaining about the amount of times she's seen me on social media preaching, like

00:28:19.400 talking about what God's done in my life.

00:28:21.480 And she's like, how do I get this crap off my phone?

00:28:24.040 You know?

00:28:24.540 Was she complaining about the porn before the evangelism?

00:28:26.500 No, no, no.

00:28:27.180 Not at all.

00:28:28.080 But we weren't actually like talking during that time.

00:28:30.340 I was on OnlyFans.

00:28:31.300 So she's only been talking to me now.

00:28:32.760 But it's just been like a difficult, like rocky, cold entrance back into my family.

00:28:37.800 Why is that?

00:28:38.580 Do they not believe you?

00:28:41.020 Do they not like Christianity? 0.68

00:28:43.620 Do they?

00:28:44.700 I would say they just don't have a really strong relationship with God.

00:28:48.320 It's not like they don't believe her.

00:28:50.460 I would say they definitely believe her.

00:28:51.920 But it's more just like letting a stranger kind of come back in after they kind of pushed

00:28:57.060 her out, as well as just like, I guess like not always walking the walk.

00:29:04.780 No, they don't.

00:29:05.520 You know?

00:29:05.760 So like.

00:29:06.320 A lot of them have fallen away from Christianity and even claim to be Christian, but their lifestyle 0.94

00:29:12.680 says differently.

00:29:14.500 So I do think they believe me, but I also don't think they care.

00:29:19.140 They don't seem to genuinely care at all about anything.

00:29:23.240 So I don't know.

00:29:25.460 It's been hard.

00:29:26.120 It's been like definitely very difficult to really want this family that's like been in

00:29:31.060 your head this whole time.

00:29:32.460 And then you find out it was kind of a delusion.

00:29:34.880 You're like, oh, okay.

00:29:36.140 I'm closer to his family than I am mine.

00:29:38.740 Well, obviously you've got to, we all love our families and have a natural loyalty to our

00:29:44.020 families, but you've, you've got a trickier situation maybe than most.

00:29:49.240 A little bit.

00:29:50.300 You mentioned financial problems.

00:29:52.200 Yeah.

00:29:52.660 But you made a bazillion dollars in pornography.

00:29:55.000 Yep.

00:29:55.280 So how do you have a financial problem?

00:29:56.760 So what happened was I made 14 million.

00:30:01.120 What is it?

00:30:01.660 Gross or net?

00:30:02.500 Like the biggest.

00:30:03.660 Gross.

00:30:04.180 Gross.

00:30:05.000 Grossly made $14 million.

00:30:06.860 I netted $9 million.

00:30:09.340 OnlyFans takes 20% of what you make.

00:30:12.000 Everything like takes 20% of it.

00:30:13.920 And then the agency that I was working with, this OnlyFans agency that was like chatting

00:30:19.360 in my DMs and posting for me and doing all the work, they took a hefty like 45%.

00:30:25.460 And I was living in California, which also takes so much in taxes.

00:30:29.420 Yeah.

00:30:29.900 So like the first year I was living in California, just my state taxes alone were like $87,000.

00:30:35.840 Just state taxes.

00:30:36.800 Yeah.

00:30:36.880 So it got cut up like three times and I'm left with what I'm left with.

00:30:41.500 So we had a really nice little eggshell.

00:30:45.440 And then we had to liquidate that because taxes came in for this year from last year.

00:30:50.640 And I made money in 2023.

00:30:53.060 And then this big life change happened in January.

00:30:56.400 And so I'm no longer working on OnlyFans.

00:30:59.260 And we got hit with taxes like crazy.

00:31:02.240 Or I did, he didn't.

00:31:03.680 But.

00:31:04.200 And then there goes the money.

00:31:05.340 There goes the money.

00:31:05.900 This is how celebrities end up owing the IRS like $5 million.

00:31:10.180 Taxes.

00:31:10.960 I think the issue is like they don't have a good CPA.

00:31:13.820 Yeah.

00:31:14.280 I don't think I have a great, I didn't have a good CPA.

00:31:15.800 Didn't advise, you know, you got to save money on taxes.

00:31:18.120 Well, I knew I needed to save money for taxes, but it was so like, am I paying quarterly?

00:31:22.620 Or like, I don't understand.

00:31:24.360 Like, what do you want me to do?

00:31:25.640 And it was like no answering on all ends.

00:31:28.240 Right.

00:31:29.100 OnlyFans in particular, show business generally, even the cleaner side of show business.

00:31:34.940 It's not the most responsible industry.

00:31:37.160 So often people get caught in these things.

00:31:39.020 So, all right.

00:31:39.700 So you're out of money.

00:31:41.460 People have criticized you because they say, you made all this money.

00:31:44.780 I know.

00:31:45.480 And you converted.

00:31:46.500 And because God saves you through the, his free grace.

00:31:50.440 Yeah.

00:31:50.600 Uh, well, that's good, but there's contrition and then there's, uh, you know, confession.

00:31:57.500 There's absolution, but then there's satisfaction.

00:32:00.980 There's a little penance.

00:32:02.060 Where's the penance?

00:32:02.880 They say you should give all your money away.

00:32:04.040 I guess you don't have money anymore.

00:32:05.020 Yeah.

00:32:05.260 So I don't know what they want me to give away at this point because I've given away

00:32:07.920 all of my designer things.

00:32:09.100 I sold my Porsche.

00:32:10.100 I don't live in the same home anymore.

00:32:12.160 And so I'm like, what else do you want me to give?

00:32:14.520 But I feel like that, that conversation could go on for forever because people want me to

00:32:18.940 dye my hair.

00:32:19.920 They want me to stop wearing makeup.

00:32:21.160 They want me to wear different clothing.

00:32:22.960 It can go on and on.

00:32:24.180 Like I'm doing everything wrong, but I'll believe you when you do this.

00:32:28.040 And I'm like, what money do I have to give away at this point?

00:32:31.240 Yeah.

00:32:31.480 I think probably a lot of the demands people are making are disingenuous and it's, it'll

00:32:35.360 never end.

00:32:35.800 But there is a, there is a real question there, which is, okay, when I go sin, which

00:32:41.300 happens time and time again, often some would say, then I, I go and I confess my sins and

00:32:47.780 I receive God's absolution and, but there's a penance.

00:32:51.800 Maybe it's three Hail Marys.

00:32:53.000 Maybe it's go do something else.

00:32:55.580 Have you given thought to, okay, I, I did all these bad things and I have been converted

00:33:01.920 and I now have this good life and I'm on the right path.

00:33:05.800 But is there a penance that you feel called to do?

00:33:10.300 A penance.

00:33:13.300 I feel like the biggest thing that I feel very called to do is to bring awareness to

00:33:17.840 the industry, not just OnlyFans, the industry and what kind of darkness that absolutely resides

00:33:25.660 there.

00:33:26.520 And that like, there are very big consequences to your actions.

00:33:31.140 You pay for what you do.

00:33:33.060 Like at first it seems free, like showing my body and I get all this money.

00:33:37.260 It seems free, right?

00:33:38.240 Like I'm just sharing something that, you know.

00:33:40.320 It's your body.

00:33:40.840 You didn't make it.

00:33:41.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:33:42.380 Like why, why should I care?

00:33:43.840 There's no value.

00:33:45.340 But then once that's done, that price to be paid is like your soul.

00:33:50.880 Like you did this, you are owned by it now.

00:33:54.120 Not only by the people who run your OnlyFans, you're owned by them.

00:33:59.660 You're owned by OnlyFans because if you stop producing, you stop making money.

00:34:03.380 So now you're just like a hamster in a hamster wheel, just going round and round and round

00:34:06.840 and round.

00:34:07.400 And like the hamster wheel keeps getting nicer and nicer, but you're still in a revolving

00:34:11.020 circle.

00:34:11.440 Like you're never like broken free from that without God's grace.

00:34:15.460 So there is a price to pay for the tax that you are absorbing the entire time.

00:34:20.980 That tax is heavy.

00:34:22.040 Like the IRS is coming after me for, you know.

00:34:24.260 The literal tax.

00:34:24.660 Yeah.

00:34:25.060 So it's a heavy price.

00:34:27.880 Shame is another price to pay for what you do.

00:34:30.900 And then when you, God, God is so good and so forgiving and so gracious, but you yourself,

00:34:35.980 like your soul feels things.

00:34:37.820 And I'm very empathetic and I've, there's been many times where I've just been sitting

00:34:41.860 down in my Bible time where I feel the hearts of the people that I hurt, the feel the hearts

00:34:47.660 of like the women who caught their husband watching me or like it's, it's real.

00:34:52.760 It's very heavy.

00:34:54.220 It's a burden.

00:34:55.520 And I can't say I'm sorry enough.

00:34:58.340 You know, I've said I'm sorry a couple of times on camera, but I just feel like that's

00:35:01.080 so impersonal.

00:35:02.020 And like, if I could, I'd love to say it to people in front of their face.

00:35:05.940 Because that's just kind of the person I am.

00:35:08.520 I'm very empathetic and I never want to cause anybody to like harm themselves or be in a

00:35:13.160 situation that harmed them because of my actions.

00:35:16.060 You know, I put it out there.

00:35:17.340 I mean, yes, they could have bought it from somebody else, but you did mine.

00:35:20.900 You bought mine, you know, and I'm like, I'm responsible for that.

00:35:24.120 And I think a lot of the hate also comes from people being like, oh, she's just not like

00:35:28.280 taking responsibility.

00:35:30.220 She needs to give all the way of money, all the money away. 1.00

00:35:32.620 And that will be, you know, claiming responsibility, like give it to a charity.

00:35:36.340 I'm like, I'm sorry, but that doesn't take away what I did.

00:35:40.040 It's still rooted in people's hearts and minds.

00:35:42.860 You know, so all I can do is pray for them.

00:35:45.020 Pray that God like wipes that clean in their brain and that like they can continue on a

00:35:49.740 journey of not lusting anymore and set them free from that.

00:35:52.780 Because we're all in chains.

00:35:54.020 I was a chain, I was chained in the industry.

00:35:56.620 They're chained to lust.

00:35:57.980 You know what I'm saying?

00:35:58.660 Like we all need to be broken free from that.

00:36:00.400 And on the point of shame, I imagine that is a heavy cost.

00:36:05.000 Difficult for you also, I'm sure.

00:36:07.200 You know, I've seen some of the commentary on social media.

00:36:10.860 What is that like?

00:36:12.160 You've married this person who has had a radical change in her life and you appear to have a

00:36:18.940 wonderful life together.

00:36:20.320 But people keep throwing her past at you.

00:36:24.180 And that's a reality that you have to do.

00:36:26.360 So how do you deal with it?

00:36:27.080 So first off, I just go to God.

00:36:30.260 Because like when everything I guess like first started, it was super hard for me.

00:36:34.420 Because like I'm a big protector.

00:36:36.280 You know, like I will always protect.

00:36:37.900 But it's hard when you can't protect like against an enemy you can't see.

00:36:41.900 You know, it's all digital.

00:36:43.340 It's like on your phone.

00:36:44.160 But like something I really have just been working on and gotten really good at is literally

00:36:50.960 just letting go and going to God.

00:36:53.080 Because like there's only so much you can do within your own strength and in your own

00:36:58.180 means where it's like, all right, like God take it from here.

00:37:01.320 Because like what does God say about vengeance and like getting back?

00:37:04.840 He said, vengeance is mine.

00:37:06.700 So it's like this isn't even my place.

00:37:08.700 It's where my place is, is standing up for my wife and like defending her spiritually

00:37:14.260 and just around us.

00:37:16.860 But it's like people hating on the internet.

00:37:19.280 Hey, blow our videos up more.

00:37:21.400 Let more people hear the gospel.

00:37:23.020 You know, like this is what Jesus can do.

00:37:25.100 So if you want to hate, hate on our posts.

00:37:27.340 Because more people need to hear the name of Jesus.

00:37:30.660 And it doesn't bother you beyond that.

00:37:34.500 You have such faith.

00:37:36.260 No, no, no, it definitely did.

00:37:37.880 In the beginning, it was, it was really hard because like there'd be people who would like

00:37:40.980 DM me like pictures of her on her, like from her past.

00:37:43.740 I was like, bro, I don't want to see this because like for me, it was like, all right,

00:37:47.340 when you think of your wife, you're like, okay, like this is mine.

00:37:50.340 No one else is like, no one else has seen her.

00:37:51.780 And then it's like, all right, well, a lot of people have seen her.

00:37:54.020 Like, so it was like, it was really hard, but it's like, she's now a new creation.

00:37:57.920 You know, in the end, if it was just us two here on earth, would I actually care about

00:38:04.060 what other people think?

00:38:05.020 You know, so it's just like, you have to look at it, you know, in a very focused lens

00:38:09.240 where it's like, this is my family.

00:38:11.280 This is what matters.

00:38:12.480 I don't care what Joe Schmo down the street thinks, you know, like he's living his life.

00:38:15.740 I'm living mine.

00:38:17.080 That's it.

00:38:17.900 Right now, go to hallow.com slash Knowles.

00:38:20.020 As the year's inevitable march of time continues into February, make sure you are continuing

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00:38:44.960 One of my favorites is their Bible in a Year podcast with Father Mike Schmitz, who you heard

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00:39:23.200 I had this thought the other day, too, since the culture's saturated with OnlyFans and all 0.99

00:39:28.280 this, not just professional pornography, but this kind of semi-professional pornography.

00:39:33.440 I thought, that's got to be very difficult for dating, for the women who have done it, 1.00

00:39:37.380 and for men who are going to be dating as women.

00:39:39.120 But then I thought, well, hold on.

00:39:40.780 Today, all sorts of women who aren't on OnlyFans send nude pictures of themselves all around 0.99

00:39:46.460 to guys.

00:39:47.200 You were just talking about that.

00:39:48.540 And so the haters don't understand that OnlyFans is the step after what you're doing.

00:39:55.100 Do you understand that?

00:39:56.740 Women send nudes to their boyfriends or random girls or guys, and guys are doing the exact 1.00

00:40:02.480 same thing.

00:40:03.420 You're just not monetizing off of it.

00:40:05.180 But strangers are seeing you in very intimate forms.

00:40:08.520 And they're out there in cyberspace.

00:40:11.040 Forever.

00:40:11.240 You don't know if they're sending it to their buddies or not, which they probably are.

00:40:15.040 So, and it's just like, or you have sugar daddies.

00:40:19.240 You know what I'm saying?

00:40:19.860 So you're actually getting paid to show your body or have sex with a stranger.

00:40:24.680 So it's like, you're upset at me for doing this, but it actually goes on way more than

00:40:30.100 you think.

00:40:31.060 I did wonder if this is the OnlyFans phenomenon is just a particular example of this broader

00:40:36.560 social phenomenon.

00:40:37.420 And what percentage, for Zoomers, you know, I don't know, people in their 20s, what percentage

00:40:43.440 of women who are dating men have ever sent a nude picture?

00:40:48.920 Oh my gosh.

00:40:49.160 20%?

00:40:50.060 30%?

00:40:50.620 More, I don't know.

00:40:51.200 40?

00:40:51.940 40%.

00:40:52.500 Over 50.

00:40:53.280 Over 50.

00:40:53.740 Like, this generation's very different now.

00:40:56.180 Very different.

00:40:56.860 It doesn't, like, and then we have Snapchat.

00:40:58.640 Like, we've had Snapchat.

00:40:59.660 Snapchat is that.

00:41:01.100 Like, that is what people use Snapchat for most of the time.

00:41:04.520 So it's just like, it goes on so much more than people think.

00:41:09.120 And it's like, it's not even like a thought because it's just like, oh, it's private.

00:41:13.600 But it's not.

00:41:14.380 Snapchat literally has every single photo you've ever taken.

00:41:17.720 Like, it doesn't just disappear.

00:41:19.220 Also, anytime, anytime you send anything through the internet, whether it's a text or an email

00:41:25.180 or a picture or anything, you can just take a screenshot of it or a picture of it on an

00:41:30.260 iPhone or something.

00:41:31.280 Yeah, absolutely.

00:41:32.000 So it's all just out there.

00:41:33.220 All just out there.

00:41:34.200 And again, you're just not monetizing off of it.

00:41:36.380 Yeah.

00:41:37.040 That was the difference between me and that.

00:41:39.080 I monetized greatly off of it.

00:41:41.560 So first year of marriage, all good, except you're dealing with people sending you these

00:41:46.300 nasty photographs and you're dealing with your family falling apart and your online

00:41:51.380 hate and all of these.

00:41:52.800 So there's a lot of bad stuff going on.

00:41:54.760 But married life is good.

00:41:57.120 It's good.

00:41:57.600 It's honestly amazing.

00:41:58.500 A lot of people that we've been friends with have been saying, oh, the first year of marriage

00:42:04.620 is so hard.

00:42:05.860 It's almost unbearable.

00:42:08.200 But for us, it's like, despite everything going on, it's like, this is actually pretty

00:42:14.560 easy.

00:42:15.000 It's pretty cake-like.

00:42:16.740 Yeah.

00:42:17.040 There's been issues.

00:42:18.020 Yeah.

00:42:18.260 We're not saying we've never fought.

00:42:19.920 Yes, we have.

00:42:20.700 Definitely.

00:42:21.560 The fact that we've been through what we've been through feels like a 12 years worth of

00:42:25.680 problems.

00:42:26.320 But it's been not even a year yet.

00:42:28.500 Like, in three months, it'll be a year.

00:42:30.080 Yeah.

00:42:30.280 But we were talking about that the other day where it feels like we've been married for

00:42:33.040 like seven years.

00:42:34.040 But we haven't been.

00:42:35.100 It's not even been a year yet.

00:42:36.180 No.

00:42:36.420 But it's wonderful.

00:42:38.480 There's so much freedom in being married.

00:42:41.140 Like, it's just, it's incredible.

00:42:43.760 I think it helps when you marry your best friend.

00:42:45.760 Oh, yeah.

00:42:45.860 Because, like, we were friends before, like, I even found her attractive.

00:42:49.680 Because it was like, for me, it was her personality that I found most attractive.

00:42:53.200 And, like, everything flowing into that.

00:42:55.080 And, obviously, she's physically attractive. 1.00

00:42:56.600 But it's, like, she was able to, like, see who I was as a person rather than just somebody

00:43:03.200 on social media.

00:43:04.240 Yeah.

00:43:04.480 Or, like, just, like, one of those kind of, like, friends where it's like, all right,

00:43:08.520 well, yeah, we're friends.

00:43:09.940 But I'll see you.

00:43:10.800 But you became friends over the internet.

00:43:12.800 Yeah.

00:43:13.100 Yeah.

00:43:13.240 Over social media.

00:43:14.100 That's what I'm saying.

00:43:14.680 But, like, when we started FaceTiming and actually talking, like, she just…

00:43:17.940 Our FaceTimes would be eight hours a day.

00:43:20.240 Yeah.

00:43:20.420 Like, so long, just getting to know each other.

00:43:23.920 Nothing ever got sexual.

00:43:25.320 It was like we didn't want to go there.

00:43:27.100 Because we were enjoying what we had.

00:43:29.360 And I had never had a best friend like him.

00:43:31.240 And he's had best friends, like, guy best friends and girl best friends.

00:43:34.340 But I felt like we just clicked.

00:43:36.680 Like, we loved where it was at.

00:43:38.920 And we'd be so happy if it stayed there.

00:43:40.980 You know?

00:43:41.560 It was just something you didn't want to lose.

00:43:43.220 Yeah.

00:43:43.380 So if you went further, you'd be afraid to lose it.

00:43:45.880 Yeah.

00:43:46.040 You don't want to risk it, you know?

00:43:47.200 Yeah.

00:43:47.560 That's what it felt like for the longest time.

00:43:49.280 But then, like, being married, dude, we tell each other everything.

00:43:53.640 And we laugh all the time.

00:43:56.020 Like, we're a bunch of goofballs.

00:43:57.580 And, like, I feel like he really gets me.

00:44:00.660 Like, I'm so weird sometimes and dorky and clumsy.

00:44:05.140 And, like, he just gets me.

00:44:07.040 He's like this little G.I. Joe, you know?

00:44:10.880 That's just like…

00:44:11.800 Because he does, like, battle gear and stuff.

00:44:14.420 Hold on.

00:44:14.960 I don't want to brush over that.

00:44:15.740 What do you mean he does battle gear?

00:44:17.240 So when we first met on TikTok Live, he had a bulletproof vest on, like, level four vest.

00:44:23.240 And armor-piercing, like, rounds could go through that.

00:44:26.240 And bulletproof…

00:44:27.360 Can't go through it.

00:44:27.540 Can't go through it.

00:44:28.160 I'm sorry.

00:44:28.700 And a bulletproof helmet on.

00:44:30.520 It was just, like, this huge…

00:44:32.420 I was like…

00:44:33.620 You were not active duty.

00:44:35.480 I used to be.

00:44:35.960 You were active.

00:44:36.780 But I'm saying when you were wearing this…

00:44:38.280 No.

00:44:38.340 No, he wasn't.

00:44:39.200 No.

00:44:39.360 I just have, like, a ton of gear in case something pops off, basically.

00:44:42.640 Yeah.

00:44:43.200 Like, our Jeep is EMP-proofed.

00:44:45.040 Oh, yeah.

00:44:45.740 We got enough food for a year, enough water for a year.

00:44:48.000 We got antibiotics, literally everything.

00:44:49.880 Anything you can think of, we have it.

00:44:51.200 Yeah.

00:44:51.340 So you're prepared for whatever comes next.

00:44:53.060 Yes.

00:44:53.300 Yeah.

00:44:54.040 We don't have a bomb shelter.

00:44:55.620 Not yet.

00:44:55.920 But, you know…

00:44:56.320 Not yet.

00:44:56.740 Not yet.

00:44:57.060 But then, what does come next?

00:44:59.140 Because a lot of the criticism I've seen you get is that you're not doing enough, or you're

00:45:07.120 not doing what people want you to be doing.

00:45:09.020 Well, that's because they're not in my personal life.

00:45:11.060 They have no idea who I'm speaking to.

00:45:13.280 They see what I want them to see.

00:45:15.360 That is all they see.

00:45:16.620 You're behind this wall.

00:45:18.100 You know, but behind the scenes, I can't tell you how many messages a day I get of people

00:45:23.220 asking me questions, like, how do I fight this lust?

00:45:26.740 Hey, I used to be on OnlyFans, but now I'm not.

00:45:28.980 What do I do?

00:45:29.920 How do you make money now?

00:45:31.500 And I just go TikTok Live.

00:45:33.040 Like, that's all I do, and I'm trying to get some brand deals.

00:45:35.180 Like, that's all I can do right now.

00:45:36.720 So, for me, it's just, like, I'm so behind the scenes doing stuff, answering people's

00:45:42.600 questions, praying over people.

00:45:44.240 Like, we pray over so many people, because, like, people start coming to us, and they're

00:45:49.440 like, hey, I'm really struggling with this.

00:45:52.660 Like, what do I do?

00:45:54.160 And, like, either one of us is, like, right on top of it.

00:45:56.740 Like, hey, let's pray.

00:45:57.640 Let's pray about this issue and see what happens in your life, because we believe in the power

00:46:01.400 of prayer.

00:46:02.120 We really do.

00:46:03.580 And so, again, people don't see that.

00:46:06.160 You don't see my worship time.

00:46:07.400 You don't see my Bible time.

00:46:08.500 You don't see how much I'm studying, how much I'm reading other books about Christ, how

00:46:11.720 much I journal, how long I listen to sermons for day in, day out.

00:46:16.600 Like, I listen to more sermons than I do music, because I just love them.

00:46:20.420 I feel engulfed and on fire, and I want to keep learning.

00:46:23.860 So, that's what people don't see.

00:46:26.380 And that's the part of my life I'm not even willing to share, because it's so good.

00:46:31.060 And I don't want anybody in it.

00:46:32.960 You know, I want me and God in that bubble.

00:46:34.940 And that's it.

00:46:36.460 Because I feel like people wreck things.

00:46:38.160 They just make everything ugly.

00:46:39.780 You know?

00:46:40.580 That's how I feel.

00:46:41.600 They've made this process very ugly for me.

00:46:44.020 So, I'm like, why would I share you the rest of my private life just so you can hate on

00:46:47.260 it?

00:46:47.460 Then is there an argument to just get off social media?

00:46:49.960 There is an argument.

00:46:50.760 I'd love to.

00:46:51.360 But I don't feel called to that right now.

00:46:53.180 I feel like I'm actually impacting so many lives.

00:46:57.260 And so is Jordan.

00:46:58.060 Jordan even started this discord for men who are struggling with lust.

00:47:01.040 It's called Lust to Life.

00:47:02.640 And we love that.

00:47:04.100 Like, that's what we feel passionate about.

00:47:06.240 And if God does be like, hey, Nala, I need you to get off social media now. 0.97

00:47:10.520 Your time is done.

00:47:12.060 Oh, bless.

00:47:13.180 Like, I would be so happy to get off.

00:47:15.480 It would be like a dream for me.

00:47:17.020 But I don't feel called to that right now.

00:47:20.080 I feel called to share my message and also keep studying the Word to see what God lays

00:47:26.100 on my heart to influence other people and help other people.

00:47:29.560 Because I don't feel like there's too, too many Christians that are viral, viral.

00:47:34.640 And I have the platform.

00:47:36.280 So, I'm like, why wouldn't I share God with 106 million people?

00:47:39.820 Why wouldn't I?

00:47:40.960 Like, you can leave if you like.

00:47:42.580 But I'm just going to keep sharing the same message, you know?

00:47:45.200 Kind of like the OnlyFans strategy.

00:47:47.040 You can raise the price until they're all gone.

00:47:49.200 You say, well, I'm just going to keep talking about God until either people are welcome to

00:47:54.120 come in or the people who don't want it, you'll have to run away then because I'm going to

00:47:57.860 keep doing it.

00:47:58.340 I'm just going to keep doing it.

00:47:59.740 So, and again, I do not get paid for anything I post.

00:48:03.820 Like, I get paid when I go live.

00:48:05.680 But I don't get any form of payment from any social media platform, sorry.

00:48:13.380 You know what I'm saying?

00:48:13.900 Like, when I post.

00:48:14.660 So, I'm like, I just don't know why people think I'm just getting paid millions still.

00:48:19.060 Or I'm sitting on a bag.

00:48:20.560 I'm like, number one, if I was sitting on a bag, I'd probably get off social media for

00:48:24.340 the rest of my life.

00:48:25.120 Like, go off the grid.

00:48:26.680 Like, I'd probably leave.

00:48:28.040 But you feel you need to make money just to support your household.

00:48:31.140 Yeah, I want to be, I love working.

00:48:33.000 So, I want to be a big part in helping our financial situation.

00:48:36.960 But you are still making money from OnlyFans, even though you're not producing content.

00:48:40.960 Nope, I'm not.

00:48:41.740 So, with that money, that's going to household expenses, or?

00:48:46.120 True.

00:48:47.620 Yes.

00:48:48.060 That's part of the income.

00:48:49.780 Which money?

00:48:50.640 Like, OnlyFans?

00:48:51.020 From OnlyFans, from the people who aren't getting money.

00:48:53.140 So, the subscription price is zero.

00:48:55.480 Like, nobody in there.

00:48:56.380 Oh, so you dropped it.

00:48:57.340 It was 50, now it's zero.

00:48:58.860 Yeah.

00:48:59.240 Yeah.

00:48:59.640 We dropped it, what, like, last year?

00:49:01.240 Or, I guess, yeah, last year.

00:49:02.560 It was only, the price was only raised for a very short period of time.

00:49:05.500 Yeah, it was like.

00:49:05.960 And then we're like, oh, crap.

00:49:07.620 It was like three days.

00:49:08.360 It's not working.

00:49:09.000 People are getting so mad that the price is raised.

00:49:11.140 And I'm like.

00:49:11.340 Why not just raise it, though?

00:49:12.280 In the sense that I like your strategy to raise it when you're going off.

00:49:16.860 And you figure, all right, these guys, if they're so desperate or they're so good,

00:49:20.240 make it hurt a little bit.

00:49:21.320 But you could always take that money and donate it to a food bank or something.

00:49:23.940 Yeah.

00:49:24.340 But we, I stopped making any kind of income off of it in January.

00:49:29.080 I have no income.

00:49:30.220 I can't even get into the account anymore, so.

00:49:32.600 Probably for the best, I guess.

00:49:33.400 It is a great, I don't care.

00:49:34.920 I really don't care.

00:49:35.620 I would love for the whole thing to just drop, but it doesn't ever seem to.

00:49:39.080 People just, like, want to be hung up on the same issue.

00:49:42.600 But it's like, there's no issue.

00:49:43.940 You're creating the issue.

00:49:45.720 Broadly, it's very difficult to get out of OnlyFans because of all the sticks and carrots

00:49:49.040 and you feel like there's nothing else you can do.

00:49:50.680 But in terms of actual practical steps, if women are watching this who are working for 0.96

00:49:58.180 OnlyFans or they have their own websites or whatever, how do you do, how do you get

00:50:03.340 your stuff taken off the internet?

00:50:04.960 The internet is forever, we're told.

00:50:06.300 What happens if someone takes the video from OnlyFans and puts it on some other website

00:50:10.180 or on social media or this?

00:50:11.620 How do you get it down?

00:50:13.160 Or can you get it down?

00:50:13.940 Absolutely, you can get it down.

00:50:15.260 I have hired a DMCA.

00:50:17.360 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, yeah.

00:50:20.960 Yes.

00:50:21.740 So they take, number one, I had a copyrighted legal note on my OnlyFans stating that if

00:50:28.080 you took this and separated it anywhere else, that kind of protects me.

00:50:31.240 If they do take it, and they did.

00:50:33.020 They took it and ran with it and posted it on everything, Reddit, Telegram, all the sites.

00:50:38.080 And so this company sends legal notices as your legal advice or help and gets them taken

00:50:46.960 down because the next step is to sue them if they do not take it down because they stole

00:50:51.280 that content.

00:50:52.640 So you actually have a lot of help in that.

00:50:56.260 You can hire somebody who's cheaper, who won't do as many links, take as many links off

00:51:00.320 the internet, or you can go full-fledged lawyer and they write up those DMCA notices, send

00:51:05.480 them to the companies, and then the next thing is, hey, we're suing you if you're not taking

00:51:09.680 these down.

00:51:10.460 So it's more like a cease and desist, kind of like take everything down that you have

00:51:13.640 and do not do it again.

00:51:14.980 Warning.

00:51:16.440 I haven't ran into the fact that somebody's not taken the stuff down so far.

00:51:20.600 It's been really good.

00:51:21.480 The issue is that other people will pop up at random and just keep posting.

00:51:28.200 So they can continue to pop up, but I can continue to come back.

00:51:30.860 And my team searches for the links on Google, on everything, and just continues to have them

00:51:36.140 taken down.

00:51:36.760 I've gotten so much taken down.

00:51:38.600 It is possible.

00:51:40.440 It takes time, though.

00:51:41.760 And in that time, you just got to wait until people kind of forget about you, honestly,

00:51:45.940 and then it'll be easier to clean up.

00:51:47.440 But I'm doing it as I'm still kind of popular.

00:51:50.400 So just to get it out, I don't want people to continue sending that content around.

00:51:54.960 It takes time and it takes money if you're a team of lawyers.

00:51:58.000 Yes, it does.

00:51:58.460 And so what happens then if the site takes it down and then someone else uploads it again

00:52:05.080 and the site takes it down again?

00:52:06.260 Are you just doing this until people stop uploading it?

00:52:09.180 Yep.

00:52:10.140 So on the one hand, you're offering people a little bit of hope, which is you can get

00:52:13.620 stuff taken down.

00:52:14.760 But on the other hand...

00:52:16.180 It depends on how big you are, too.

00:52:18.400 Like, I was very big.

00:52:20.560 So, like, obviously more of it got spread.

00:52:23.320 And I did, like, everything.

00:52:25.640 So it's just kind of like a broader...

00:52:27.600 But, like, women who aren't as famous, it would be way easier for you to get your stuff 1.00

00:52:30.980 taken down completely.

00:52:32.360 Like, you're just not as popular.

00:52:33.880 Like, it's not, like, in high demand.

00:52:35.380 But my stuff was in high demand.

00:52:36.980 So it just got spread.

00:52:38.340 And other people are paying other people, selling it through a screen, acting like me.

00:52:42.240 That's the biggest part of what I've found is that even one of my critiques pulled this

00:52:48.280 up how somebody on Telegram with a verified account is selling my content.

00:52:54.560 And I had no idea.

00:52:55.840 I had never been on Telegram.

00:52:57.480 I'm like, what?

00:52:58.960 And then she said that it was me doing it.

00:53:01.260 And so I'm like, well, that's clearly not me.

00:53:03.420 I got my lawyer involved.

00:53:04.940 And we are now, like, in a process to get that completely taken down.

00:53:09.920 Because someone...

00:53:10.440 These people are posing as me.

00:53:12.860 So that's just, like, it's so wrong.

00:53:14.440 And then on top of it, selling explicit content.

00:53:17.080 I've actually...

00:53:17.720 I believe the term for it is called rage porn.

00:53:20.260 It's where they send out a bunch of your stuff for money.

00:53:22.860 It's called rage porn.

00:53:24.080 Like, they're the ones raging?

00:53:25.500 Yes.

00:53:25.920 They're raging about it.

00:53:27.220 So that's what our lawyer was telling us.

00:53:29.740 So, yeah.

00:53:30.580 And I just...

00:53:31.180 It's disheartening.

00:53:32.520 Because you're like, dude, stop.

00:53:34.380 Like, stop.

00:53:35.440 Like, I don't understand it.

00:53:37.340 I really don't.

00:53:38.080 But people are making money off of it.

00:53:39.500 So I guess that's the motivation behind it.

00:53:41.980 But it is...

00:53:42.660 It can be done.

00:53:43.540 And as time passes, I will be less and less famous.

00:53:47.020 And it will hopefully just die down.

00:53:49.060 But do you think there will be a day when there is not one picture, not one video, not...

00:53:54.260 Or no.

00:53:54.620 Will there always be a little something?

00:53:55.860 You think there will be.

00:53:56.640 You think it will be more?

00:53:56.920 I mean, the internet is forever.

00:53:59.160 But...

00:53:59.680 And there's always going to be little smidgens.

00:54:01.320 Like, little crumbs.

00:54:02.460 But not to the extent it is now.

00:54:04.180 Not on the big websites.

00:54:05.520 Yes.

00:54:05.620 Yes.

00:54:05.980 There will be something.

00:54:07.200 Some thing.

00:54:08.740 But not to where to spell.

00:54:10.760 Right.

00:54:11.080 It's horrible.

00:54:11.640 The takeaway for a girl who's doing it is, you can fix a lot of this, but the warning 1.00

00:54:17.660 to the girl who isn't doing it yet is, there's always going to be some crumb.

00:54:21.400 You best believe.

00:54:22.760 Don't...

00:54:23.240 Better not to do it at all, actually.

00:54:25.020 Right.

00:54:25.820 It's just too risky.

00:54:27.280 It's too risky.

00:54:27.900 Because then you, you then have other people seeing it who you would never want to see

00:54:34.480 that by accident.

00:54:35.900 You have no idea how crazy it is how certain people in my life found out what I did.

00:54:41.580 I was mind blown.

00:54:43.320 It was so embarrassing.

00:54:45.020 So, like, how they found out I was on OnlyFans was because, like, their buddy showed them at

00:54:50.440 work.

00:54:51.160 And I was like, oh, like, why would you talk about that at work?

00:54:56.880 You know?

00:54:57.580 And you weren't even friends with them.

00:54:58.800 That's just your coworker.

00:55:00.380 And it's just odd to me that that's, like, how people operate.

00:55:03.900 But, yeah, if it could deter people from doing it, that is one big deterring route.

00:55:09.960 It's like, this will never be gone.

00:55:13.160 Ever.

00:55:14.060 Ever, ever, ever.

00:55:14.960 And then you will have to live with that consequence.

00:55:16.720 And you'll have to pay money on top of that to get rid of it.

00:55:19.540 And you've got your TikTok agency.

00:55:21.020 Yeah.

00:55:21.520 And I have my TikTok agency.

00:55:23.380 So, my agency is called Be The Change.

00:55:25.960 And it's like, I feel very passionate about it because I go TikTok live.

00:55:29.860 And that was, like, my main source of income after getting off OnlyFans.

00:55:33.000 It's just going TikTok live.

00:55:34.180 I sit in there in, like, a hoodie just talking to people.

00:55:37.020 And I do battling and stuff.

00:55:38.700 And it's really fun.

00:55:39.960 We do battling.

00:55:41.020 Battling.

00:55:41.500 It's, like, where you're put on a split screen on TikTok and people throw gifts at you to win the battle.

00:55:46.620 And you can be as excited as you want.

00:55:48.180 It's just completely you on TikTok live.

00:55:50.540 That's how we met.

00:55:51.220 Yeah, that's how we met.

00:55:52.920 The battle is, forgive my old age.

00:55:56.580 No, you're funny.

00:55:57.020 It's basically, like, your team versus, like, let's say, her team.

00:56:00.440 The other creator's team.

00:56:01.080 And, like, who can get the most amount of points on the screen.

00:56:03.820 Yep.

00:56:04.040 How do you get points?

00:56:05.160 Gifting.

00:56:05.460 Gifting.

00:56:05.700 And that's money.

00:56:06.420 Like, gifting.

00:56:06.940 That's money.

00:56:07.980 How do I sign up for this?

00:56:09.180 That's right.

00:56:09.760 Join our agency.

00:56:10.660 Join my agency.

00:56:11.220 Yeah, cool.

00:56:11.620 All right.

00:56:12.060 I'll be a cool, hip TikToker. 0.84

00:56:13.380 Yeah.

00:56:13.860 Be like a Zoomer. 1.00

00:56:14.980 Yeah.

00:56:15.540 But along with what Jordan was saying, like, there's a mission.

00:56:17.980 Like, we feel called to.

00:56:19.320 That was another thing.

00:56:20.360 So the biggest question I got was finances.

00:56:22.440 Like, how am I supposed to pay for myself now?

00:56:23.960 Or what can I do before I get on OnlyFans to pay for things?

00:56:26.700 Like, bills or whatever.

00:56:28.580 I say, go TikTok live.

00:56:30.000 Join my agency.

00:56:30.880 And I'll help you learn how to do this.

00:56:32.900 My agency takes nothing from the creator at all.

00:56:35.300 I'm just here to mentor you in helping you make more money.

00:56:38.680 How does the agency make money?

00:56:40.380 The agency.

00:56:41.380 So TikTok takes 50% of what the creator makes.

00:56:43.900 Like, it takes 50% of what I make on live.

00:56:47.120 That agency, like, if I was over myself in an agency, TikTok takes 50%.

00:56:53.400 The agency takes 10% of what TikTok took from the creator.

00:56:56.700 Oh.

00:56:57.020 So it doesn't take anything from the creator.

00:56:57.760 The money from TikTok.

00:56:58.700 Oh, that's pretty good.

00:56:59.520 Yes.

00:56:59.780 TikTok pays the agencies out.

00:57:01.780 So, and that's how we do it.

00:57:04.120 Like, I've been talking to quite a few girls in OnlyFans and off OnlyFans.

00:57:09.260 Two of them are converts already, have already converted to Christianity after OnlyFans.

00:57:14.400 And they would love to join my agency just because they want to be mentored.

00:57:17.220 And we get to be friends.

00:57:18.540 And we can just start this mission of helping girls.

00:57:21.520 Girls who are worried about finances. 0.94

00:57:23.140 Like, if that's your biggest issue, join TikTok.

00:57:25.100 Like, you're not showing your body at all.

00:57:26.940 You can just sit there for all I care.

00:57:29.180 You know what I'm saying?

00:57:29.320 Or, like, go work at Starbucks.

00:57:30.800 I don't know.

00:57:31.220 I mean, there are ways to make money.

00:57:32.760 I get it.

00:57:33.060 Yes.

00:57:33.300 It is hard.

00:57:34.240 On the one hand, it is very hard to make a dollar in this world.

00:57:36.660 But if you want to be absolutely just sitting at home, here's your remote work.

00:57:40.280 Go TikTok Live.

00:57:41.260 Yeah.

00:57:41.560 And if you have that much time, go TikTok Live all day.

00:57:44.140 Like, it doesn't matter.

00:57:44.900 Build your team up.

00:57:45.760 You know, whatever you have to do.

00:57:46.760 But it focuses in on a different source of money and income.

00:57:50.500 Now, again, you could make more income on TikTok Live than you would ever on OnlyFans.

00:57:55.840 You really could.

00:57:57.260 For the vast majority of people.

00:57:58.560 Like, I just got so lucky making that kind of dough.

00:58:01.740 But, yeah, that's what I feel called to as well.

00:58:06.160 It's like, you know in the Bible where it talks about, like, don't just pray for somebody to have a shirt.

00:58:09.960 Give them your shirt.

00:58:11.200 You know, don't pray for them to have food.

00:58:12.620 Give them food.

00:58:13.300 You know, this is how I feel in that role.

00:58:16.120 It's just, I'm not just going to pray for you to not join or pray for you to get off.

00:58:19.520 Here.

00:58:20.260 Here's my TikTok agency.

00:58:21.500 Let me help you, teach you, guide you in this so you can make income in a different way.

00:58:26.920 You know, what's that saying about, like, if you give them an official eat for a day, but if you teach them how to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime?

00:58:32.300 That's how I feel, too, about it.

00:58:33.420 There's also something, I suppose, to, I guess my first instinct is if a girl's doing OnlyFans, she should throw out all her computers and cameras and just do something totally, radically different. 0.94

00:58:44.440 However, if that's not going to happen, there is something also to, hey, you've developed certain skills, and some of them you're going to forget about those skills.

00:58:52.720 But some other skills, you can speak into a camera.

00:58:55.400 You can communicate with people.

00:58:56.520 You can whatever.

00:58:58.100 Do social media.

00:58:58.760 If there is an off-ramp to OnlyFans that still involves a lot of that and it's not totally foreign, maybe that's not the worst thing in the world.

00:59:07.800 I would agree because, like, let's say it would just be such a shock if you go from content creating, content creating, content creating for OnlyFans and then not content creating anymore.

00:59:17.940 It's kind of like a, it's not as crazy as PTSD, but it's quite a shock because it's like that's what you're used to.

00:59:25.900 That's what you do for money, and now you're retraining to do something completely different.

00:59:30.180 You're still, like, in the audience's eye, but you're being clean now.

00:59:34.400 And TikTok will not allow, like, nudity, nothing like that.

00:59:36.960 Like, you have to be clean.

00:59:38.340 You can't even say certain words.

00:59:40.080 So it's very clean, collected, and you can make good money off of it in the comfort of your own home, which is the whole lie that OnlyFans sells you, is that it's in the comfort of your own home.

00:59:49.720 You're fine, but you're not selling your body on TikTok.

00:59:52.580 It seems uncomfortable, OnlyFans.

00:59:54.000 It's quite uncomfortable.

00:59:55.000 Yep, because porn is free.

00:59:56.360 You pay with your soul.

00:59:57.460 Yep.

00:59:58.280 When I make a mistake, I think back on it.

01:00:03.120 Maybe because I've been in politics and in show business.

01:00:06.280 Maybe.

01:00:06.680 And so I think back on it.

01:00:08.000 It's not, you know, I confess my sins.

01:00:11.400 I move on.

01:00:11.920 I accept God's grace.

01:00:12.840 But I sometimes think back, oh, five years ago, I said this thing.

01:00:16.060 I shouldn't have said this.

01:00:16.940 Or, oh, I think about that.

01:00:18.660 And it, I'm not saying it quants my sleep at night, but it comes back to me every so often.

01:00:22.960 That's the Holy Spirit.

01:00:24.000 I believe.

01:00:25.360 How do you mean?

01:00:26.360 So I feel like the Holy Spirit will, so, okay, going back a little bit, in the book of Psalms

01:00:32.200 139, it says, like, search me, O Lord.

01:00:34.080 Like, search my heart.

01:00:35.060 And I continually pray that prayer just over Scripture.

01:00:39.020 Like, I love reading God's Word to God.

01:00:41.680 I love it.

01:00:42.660 And so when I do that, I find that the Holy Spirit has brought almost visions of the past

01:00:48.680 up in my head.

01:00:49.280 And it's to, I feel like He does it for repentance sake and healing.

01:00:55.840 So this, like, He brings random things into my brain at random times, and I know I need

01:01:00.840 to pray over it.

01:01:01.720 Whether it's a prayer of not repentance, but help me learn and help me grow in this area

01:01:06.160 where I messed up.

01:01:07.420 I'm so sorry for lying there.

01:01:09.560 I'm so sorry for treating this person that way.

01:01:12.100 Or I shouldn't have done this.

01:01:14.480 It's a teachable moment.

01:01:16.480 That's how I feel.

01:01:17.100 Again, Holy Spirit is our teacher.

01:01:18.820 So why wouldn't He recall things that you need to be taught?

01:01:22.580 Like, bringing back up the lesson.

01:01:23.240 I totally agree.

01:01:24.200 It played over in my head this conversation I had six years ago.

01:01:27.240 I actually should have said it this way, and maybe that would have been better.

01:01:30.420 I find that on the whatever podcast, I should have done a couple different things.

01:01:33.540 Sure, sure.

01:01:34.260 Of course, that happens.

01:01:35.780 How often does that come back to you?

01:01:39.140 It's not a set number.

01:01:40.340 It's kind of in my quiet times with the Lord.

01:01:43.260 I love to have my quiet time, like, a couple hours before bed.

01:01:47.160 Because He's off doing something, and I can just sit wherever I'm at and have my

01:01:51.400 journaling in Bible time.

01:01:53.440 And The Awe of God, the book by John Bevere, recommended taking 10 to 30 minutes in quiet

01:02:01.220 with Christ and the Holy Spirit.

01:02:03.180 Just welcome Him into your atmosphere and think.

01:02:07.180 Like, just open your mind up to what Holy Spirit's going to lead you into.

01:02:10.840 And sometimes it's visions.

01:02:12.240 Sometimes I get a word.

01:02:13.640 Sometimes I'm like, oh, I need to go here in the Bible.

01:02:16.060 Sometimes it's like praying repentance over something.

01:02:19.560 Or the shame that I've been feeling.

01:02:21.940 Or sometimes it's just being quiet because He's not speaking all the time.

01:02:25.480 So I'm just, like, sitting there in this quiet time, and I'll get a vision of the past.

01:02:30.440 Or something with a family member.

01:02:33.140 Or thinking about my dad.

01:02:35.380 And I just pray over the situation.

01:02:37.340 Now, I didn't do anything against my dad.

01:02:39.240 But I think about him, and I'm like, I get this vision of him doing something.

01:02:43.840 And I pray over it.

01:02:45.280 I'm like, I don't know why I'm having this thought right now.

01:02:47.100 But you know what?

01:02:47.980 I need your help and guidance in this area because it's really hurting me.

01:02:51.460 So there's healing in a lot of that.

01:02:54.140 And healing has brought me in that scenario.

01:02:56.580 And when I think about my dad, yes, it's tragic what's going on right now.

01:03:00.940 But he is my earthly father.

01:03:02.700 And God is my heavenly father.

01:03:04.720 And he would never hurt me like the ways that my dad has hurt me.

01:03:07.980 So there's just, like, this redirection of my thoughts.

01:03:11.740 And it always points back towards Christ.

01:03:14.540 And that's what I feel like I'm getting out of this time alone when I get visions of something.

01:03:18.760 Again, it's not always something sinful.

01:03:20.540 Sometimes it's just something I need to, like, really pray about.

01:03:23.760 Are you still speaking to your father amid all this?

01:03:25.920 No, I haven't spoken to him since, like, last March.

01:03:28.440 So I have a really hard thought in my head to go to see him in prison in a jumpsuit.

01:03:34.520 But it's kind of like, will I get traumatized from this?

01:03:37.300 And yes, probably, yes.

01:03:38.240 Certainly you will.

01:03:40.340 But also, how is he going to respond to me?

01:03:42.860 Because he wrote me some really horrible emails before he went to jail.

01:03:48.840 Post-conversion or pre-conversion?

01:03:51.360 Pre-conversion.

01:03:53.000 So he wrote me just some horrible things that a dad should not say to their daughter.

01:03:58.000 And it's just kind of, like, stuck in my head.

01:04:00.120 And I feel like he truly feels that way about me.

01:04:04.900 And I feel like if I'll go see him, it'll just be a bad experience.

01:04:10.920 But I also don't want to wait, you know, because I don't know if I'm ever going to see him again.

01:04:14.900 Because he's in his late 60s.

01:04:16.560 And if you have a life sentence at 60s, like, you're not going to get out.

01:04:20.500 So it's kind of a hard concept.

01:04:22.460 But, yeah.

01:04:23.060 It's a difficult thing to work through.

01:04:26.160 Because you say, I have a heavenly father who is a perfect father.

01:04:30.480 And I have this rather imperfect earthly father.

01:04:33.640 You just have to honor your father, even if he's awful.

01:04:38.040 So you've got to figure out what to do.

01:04:41.780 It sounds like you don't know what to do.

01:04:42.820 I don't know what to do.

01:04:43.700 I've had some counseling.

01:04:45.840 And my counselor is just like, you should write a list, a pro and con list of why you should go see him.

01:04:50.700 And I just thought that was the dumbest idea.

01:04:52.220 I'm sorry.

01:04:52.960 I was like, why am I paying for this?

01:04:55.340 Like, this is like such an easy thing.

01:04:56.740 How much is this session cost?

01:04:58.000 No, literally.

01:04:58.840 I was like, I just spent $90 on this one.

01:05:01.500 So I'm very torn.

01:05:04.760 I'm still just praying about it.

01:05:06.300 Because I don't know.

01:05:07.780 I'm tired of being traumatized.

01:05:10.080 I'm really like, it's, my whole life feels like a big traumatic thing.

01:05:15.900 And I just want some peace in my life now.

01:05:18.760 Even though we haven't had a lot of peace.

01:05:20.920 It's, I find peace being with my husband.

01:05:24.660 And that is peaceful.

01:05:26.660 But thinking about all my family again just stirs up this like feeling of not being wanted.

01:05:31.640 And it's like a really hard thing for me to continue to grasp.

01:05:35.420 It's just not being welcomed back into the family that I loved.

01:05:38.500 Like as a kid.

01:05:39.940 So.

01:05:40.460 And now you have your own family.

01:05:41.820 I have my own family.

01:05:42.780 You check basically all the boxes of girls who are going to go into porn. 0.99

01:05:48.740 Yeah.

01:05:48.880 Right?

01:05:49.240 Broken home.

01:05:50.360 Tough relationship with your father.

01:05:51.580 Pastor's kid.

01:05:52.520 Yeah, pastor's kid.

01:05:53.440 I guess.

01:05:54.440 You check all of those boxes.

01:05:57.260 And I've now spoken to a handful of people who have been on OnlyFans.

01:06:01.660 Because I've done the Whatever podcast.

01:06:03.500 Yep.

01:06:03.720 They all, they fit a type.

01:06:06.360 You know, we, we, life is somewhat predictable.

01:06:10.540 It's not totally predictable, but it's somewhat predictable.

01:06:12.600 So.

01:06:12.960 Human nature is more predictable.

01:06:14.480 Human nature is a bit more predictable.

01:06:16.340 How do you talk to these women? 1.00

01:06:19.620 Do you talk to women who are at risk for this?

01:06:22.500 What is your advice to them?

01:06:24.160 Yeah.

01:06:24.420 I personally know women who have at least considered going on OnlyFans.

01:06:29.160 I don't know if they did.

01:06:30.140 Hope they didn't.

01:06:30.860 Hope so.

01:06:31.860 But I do know women who have considered that because of all the reasons.

01:06:37.200 Yeah.

01:06:37.980 Well, there's no one thing I can say.

01:06:41.900 Everybody's different.

01:06:42.900 I understand brokenness, though, and how brokenness puts, it almost pushes you into this mindset

01:06:49.320 of two different options.

01:06:50.860 You can grow stronger or you can get weaker.

01:06:53.220 So, in my head, I'm like, I need full control of my life because it's been out of control

01:06:59.680 this entire time.

01:07:00.940 How do I take control?

01:07:02.160 Even though I was doing porn, I'm like, I have control over this.

01:07:05.560 I chose this.

01:07:06.940 I own my OnlyFans.

01:07:08.360 I do.

01:07:08.880 Yeah.

01:07:09.840 I'm doing it from home.

01:07:11.600 You know, it's like, I'm the director.

01:07:13.420 But you're really not.

01:07:14.480 You're like a paid director, which they can absolutely substitute at any point.

01:07:18.660 So, again, there's no one thing I can say.

01:07:21.600 I can just love.

01:07:23.600 That's it.

01:07:24.220 And love shows through so much and not just be like, oh, I love you.

01:07:27.480 It could be like just showing empathy towards what they're going through.

01:07:31.560 Sometimes people just need somebody to hear them.

01:07:34.580 That's it.

01:07:35.520 Like somebody to absolutely just listen and understand their pain and situations.

01:07:42.440 And it's kind of hard to play therapist.

01:07:43.840 And I'm not trying to.

01:07:45.540 It's more of just listening.

01:07:47.720 Being somebody God sent to just be loving and empathetic and listen.

01:07:54.080 Because brokenness drives people to like those two scenarios, courage or weakness.

01:07:59.980 And it's not really courage, courage.

01:08:01.400 It's more like false courage, identity.

01:08:04.120 Like you don't really know.

01:08:05.820 But you're just like, I'm independent.

01:08:08.260 Like I can do this.

01:08:09.200 But the world makes OnlyFans look so delicious.

01:08:13.440 And yet it ends up giving you heartburn and probably tears your stomach.

01:08:17.760 And it just goes all the way through.

01:08:19.180 And you're just, it's like the worst cake you've ever had in your life.

01:08:21.540 But it tasted good.

01:08:22.620 At the top, it was good.

01:08:24.140 But it causes so many issues down the line.

01:08:26.460 So if I could warn of any of those issues, if they're open to conversating.

01:08:32.040 And there's been so many that have been.

01:08:34.580 The biggest thing I'm seeing is that they're concerned about finances.

01:08:38.580 I find that to be the number one concern for women who are thinking about going into OnlyFans

01:08:42.980 or have already done it or trying to get out.

01:08:45.180 How am I supposed to provide for myself?

01:08:46.800 I'm single.

01:08:47.540 Or my boyfriend doesn't work.

01:08:49.060 Or my husband's not, you know, doing much.

01:08:51.240 You know, how am I going to provide for myself?

01:08:52.840 This seems like an easy out.

01:08:54.060 It is an easy out, but it comes at such a taxed price that you can't pay it after a certain time.

01:09:00.520 And then you're, again, in the hamster wheel, slaving away the entire time.

01:09:05.060 When you say taxed, do you mean just literally or you mean metaphorically as well?

01:09:08.260 Both.

01:09:08.740 Honestly, you get taxed very heavily for being on and making that kind of money.

01:09:13.000 Not everybody makes that kind of money.

01:09:14.520 Basically, no one makes the kind of money you made.

01:09:16.300 But, again, you just pay a price for everything that you do.

01:09:20.480 Whether you're just showing bikini photos,

01:09:22.640 you're still causing people to sin by, like, lusting after that.

01:09:26.760 You know, the whole internet's filled with that.

01:09:28.480 Like, IG models.

01:09:29.620 You know, like, that's what they want to show without having an OnlyFans. 0.73

01:09:32.740 But we're still showing enough skin to make people stumble.

01:09:37.780 To scandalize people?

01:09:38.900 Yes.

01:09:39.120 Right.

01:09:39.660 So, yeah, again, I'm sorry I got off a little topic there,

01:09:42.420 but there's not one thing I can say.

01:09:45.000 It just depends on where they're at.

01:09:46.700 Like, what's that breaking point that's going to make them make that decision?

01:09:50.760 But if I can go in and provide value to who they are by just seeing it, observing, praying over them.

01:09:59.000 I've actually prayed over so many people.

01:10:01.560 And obviously not all the time it works.

01:10:04.060 You know, like, as in, like, God doesn't control you.

01:10:06.120 We are not puppets.

01:10:06.880 We have free will.

01:10:08.080 But I do see power.

01:10:08.580 It works in the grand sense, I guess.

01:10:09.900 Yes, I see God's power working and moving and putting people in place to try to stop those people.

01:10:16.420 But again, it's their decision.

01:10:18.480 So, yeah, I hope that answered your question.

01:10:21.580 What do you make of the two viral porn moments I've seen in the last two months?

01:10:27.700 One just happened days ago.

01:10:30.900 This woman, Blue Bonnet or something, she's British. 1.00

01:10:34.960 She went into a Five Guys burger place, and someone was secretly recording.

01:10:41.840 And she propositioned the cashier. 0.99

01:10:43.720 And she said, hey, where are the five guys?

01:10:46.100 I want to order the five guys.

01:10:47.700 That was the joke.

01:10:48.660 And then she propositioned the guy and said, come on, after your shift, let's go. 1.00

01:10:51.500 And the guy was great.

01:10:52.740 This young guy.

01:10:53.720 He says, actually, I'm a Christian.

01:10:55.240 I'm saving myself until marriage.

01:10:56.500 Amen.

01:10:57.040 Let's go.

01:10:57.640 It was great.

01:10:58.200 It was really great.

01:10:59.340 And that was basically the end of the clip.

01:11:01.300 But that went viral, and truly, within the last 24, 48 hours.

01:11:06.780 And then the other one was this girl who looks kind of like her, but she's younger,

01:11:12.180 who slept with 100 men in a day and says she wants to sleep with 1,000 men in a day.

01:11:17.100 What struck me about both of those episodes, these are the two mainstream porn moments of

01:11:25.720 the last year, I don't know.

01:11:28.060 Neither of them involved any actual nudity.

01:11:31.660 Or sex.

01:11:33.480 With the woman who slept with 100 guys. 0.73

01:11:35.560 I don't, I didn't see that going around happily.

01:11:38.300 I just saw a documentary about her.

01:11:40.920 Where she's fully clothed, and she's just talking about this, and she's crying, and

01:11:43.680 she's clearly upset by it, but putting on a brave face.

01:11:46.200 And then the other girl, obviously, was fully clothed. 0.98

01:11:47.940 She's in a Five Guys. 1.00

01:11:48.840 What do you make of the titillating porn now not even really being directly related to sex?

01:11:59.280 Well, you have to understand that the internet has boundaries, too.

01:12:03.740 You, like, at this point, OnlyFans has come in by such a storm that social media sites are,

01:12:11.360 like, really, like, hunkering down on sexualized content.

01:12:15.620 So, you, like, after a certain point, if your account has been flagged so many times, or

01:12:20.520 shadow banned so many times, you have to change things up.

01:12:23.100 You can't do things the way you normally do.

01:12:25.160 But with, like, the girl who wants to sleep with, like, a thousand men to break the world 0.97

01:12:29.260 record of it, not showing gives you more of, like, I need to see.

01:12:35.300 Like, you do.

01:12:36.900 Like, you're not showing her body.

01:12:38.280 You're not showing much at all.

01:12:39.680 You just heard something, and now you're so extremely curious, you just have to go find

01:12:44.220 out for yourself, which is a good drive.

01:12:46.320 Like, if I was back in the business, I'd be, like, A1 marketing right there.

01:12:50.740 You know, because you don't always need to show anything.

01:12:53.280 You know, you could just show that she's, like, an attractive-looking woman, saying 0.99

01:12:56.300 if she's going to get rammed by a thousand guys in a day. 0.50

01:12:59.620 Like, that's, like, whoa.

01:13:01.400 Like, is that even humanly possible, almost?

01:13:03.580 So, you're not just curious about the porn.

01:13:04.980 You're curious about, like, is that actually possible?

01:13:07.260 Right.

01:13:07.580 You know?

01:13:08.060 How many hours are in a day?

01:13:09.320 It drives, like, so many questions.

01:13:12.340 I wondered if there was something darker there, which is that the scene that went viral

01:13:16.780 with the girl who slept with a hundred guys, it was her kind of crying, tearing

01:13:21.340 up a little, you know.

01:13:22.820 And then with the scene of the woman in the burger place, it's her just debasing herself.

01:13:30.580 And I wondered if we've reached such a point of ubiquity with nudity and sex that actually

01:13:38.640 all that's left to titillate people is just watching.

01:13:42.460 Outright saying it.

01:13:43.680 Right.

01:13:44.240 Yeah.

01:13:44.440 Women just degrading themselves in the most pathetic ways. 1.00

01:13:49.760 If that's actually, even if they're fully clothed.

01:13:52.920 Maybe I'm reading too deeply into it.

01:13:54.560 No, you're not.

01:13:55.500 You're not.

01:13:55.860 I wouldn't say you are.

01:13:56.700 Just because, like, in this generation now, I mean, look at anything being sold.

01:14:01.340 It always involves a woman. 1.00

01:14:02.840 You know?

01:14:03.120 So it's always someone who's either dressed sexually or something like that.

01:14:07.040 And it's like, that's what, like, everyone wants to, like, see.

01:14:10.820 But it's like, in all reality, it's like, a lot of people don't really want to see that.

01:14:15.080 But for people who follow the world, they're like, yeah, let's go.

01:14:18.300 Bring it on.

01:14:18.900 You know, what's next?

01:14:20.160 But, like, what do you think?

01:14:21.640 I have this idea.

01:14:23.220 I think that—it was crazy.

01:14:25.420 I was just talking about this.

01:14:26.580 So follow my line of structuring here.

01:14:29.540 So I feel like, you know, when you are not living for God, the devil will tempt you with

01:14:33.580 all of these things, like sex, all this, like, nudity.

01:14:36.040 Like, it's normal.

01:14:37.040 It's good.

01:14:37.560 It's pleasurous.

01:14:38.220 It's great.

01:14:39.020 When you get married, though, the opposite happens, where you almost find, like—you

01:14:44.340 go through points in your marriage where you're just kind of like, we had this moment

01:14:48.760 where we were talking about porn sex and normal, like, loving sex.

01:14:54.720 It's very different.

01:14:55.560 Are you saying they're not the same?

01:14:56.960 No, they're not the same.

01:14:58.020 You're shocking every 16-year-old boy out there.

01:15:00.400 You know what?

01:15:01.060 It is different.

01:15:02.120 It's different because of the person and that covenant that binds you two together is now,

01:15:08.940 like, whoa, this is serious.

01:15:10.700 Like, this is—we need to take this seriously.

01:15:13.300 But the devil will try to trick you and be like, oh, you're too tired right now for that.

01:15:18.160 Like, it's breaking apart your, like, physical sexual bond as a couple.

01:15:22.860 But when you're not married, you're just dating.

01:15:24.780 It's like, have sex. 0.65

01:15:25.840 It's okay.

01:15:26.280 It's okay.

01:15:26.720 Like, that drive for corniness is, like, there.

01:15:30.180 That's a good point.

01:15:31.060 I feel that, truly.

01:15:32.800 So now we're at the point where girls are getting called bops and, like— 1.00

01:15:37.060 What's a bop?

01:15:38.000 This air-headed girl who's just willing to basically sell herself. 1.00

01:15:40.960 You think that's what it means?

01:15:41.980 We don't know.

01:15:42.260 We believe that is what—I've been called it multiple times.

01:15:45.700 So whatever this new word means for this new generation,

01:15:48.740 we've been so desensitized throughout generation after generation

01:15:51.920 that it just got more and more and more and more seasoned.

01:15:56.260 And now we're just covered in seasoning.

01:15:58.520 And it's just like, here we are, world.

01:16:00.520 Here is my private parts.

01:16:02.660 And it's just such a normal thing.

01:16:04.500 I can't imagine what it's going to be in just 10 years from now

01:16:07.200 if it's already this blunt and, like, out there.

01:16:10.620 Like, I'm not kidding you.

01:16:12.420 If a girl walked up to any guy almost, 1.00

01:16:15.380 besides for the guy working at Five Guys, apparently,

01:16:17.840 she'd be able to, like, get in his pants. 0.99

01:16:19.500 Like, it's just so prevalent.

01:16:20.460 So the bop is that girl. 0.72

01:16:21.540 The bop is the girl who's just a— 1.00

01:16:23.100 Yes, that is what they bop.

01:16:23.400 —kind of a caricature of a sex phrase.

01:16:24.440 I don't want to call her that, but she would probably be described as a bop on the internet. 1.00

01:16:27.800 That's the part she's playing in, obviously.

01:16:30.180 But it's so crazy that we've come this far, that sin is so in your face.

01:16:35.220 It's so—you could touch it anywhere.

01:16:37.420 On your phones, you're scrolling, and it's temptation after temptation.

01:16:40.980 It does not try to hide itself.

01:16:42.140 I love this point, though, that when you're not married,

01:16:45.260 the devil tempts you to sleep with everyone around you.

01:16:47.700 And then when you are married, the devil tempts you not to sleep with your spouse.

01:16:51.900 Because there are people who will say—

01:16:53.920 even religious people who take the marriage covenant sacrament seriously—

01:16:59.240 will say, oh, well, you really shouldn't—

01:17:01.720 you don't need to sleep with your spouse all the time.

01:17:03.380 But I don't know.

01:17:05.140 Being Catholic, there's a little bit of an emphasis on procreation.

01:17:10.160 Traditionally, it's actually considered a sin to deprive your spouse of the marital right without

01:17:14.780 great reason.

01:17:14.940 It is, because that is not submitting.

01:17:17.320 That's how I feel.

01:17:18.840 And you know what's crazy?

01:17:20.860 There has been times where I'm like, oh, man, I'm just so tired.

01:17:23.840 But that verse comes into my head about submitting to my husband.

01:17:27.180 It is not being a slave to—it is—

01:17:29.980 There's reason in that there.

01:17:31.340 There is.

01:17:31.900 It's a higher calling.

01:17:32.840 Like, I'm being called to submit to my husband, who I am married to, not to my boyfriend.

01:17:37.400 You know, I'm not here to just please you.

01:17:40.080 You know, so I don't have a boyfriend.

01:17:42.200 I don't want anybody to think that.

01:17:43.060 Oh, my gosh.

01:17:43.920 So you never know.

01:17:46.460 That's the clip.

01:17:47.600 That's the clip.

01:17:49.500 I'm talking to an imaginary boyfriend right next to me.

01:17:52.260 So, yes, I feel like it's very prevalent.

01:17:55.520 I've actually talked to quite a few married couples that are Christian and non-Christian about

01:18:00.700 just kind of like their scenarios.

01:18:02.260 And when you become very close friends with them, sometimes they'll talk about their sexual

01:18:06.420 life as a married couple.

01:18:08.940 It's a spicy dinner party.

01:18:10.280 Not much eating going on, but—so it's kind of like they all share their kind of different

01:18:17.340 kind of stories, takes, and they've all been married in different age ranges, all that kind

01:18:20.800 of stuff, been through different life events.

01:18:22.540 But I find that sex is not like almost as prevalent in some couples as it is in others.

01:18:30.160 Yeah, certainly.

01:18:30.620 And it's almost like time had kind of worn it down.

01:18:34.200 But it's like, I think, as a married couple, that's what separates you from being just buddies.

01:18:39.200 You know, that part of it.

01:18:41.100 And so it's important.

01:18:43.580 It is extremely important to have sex with the one that you love and are married to because, 0.70

01:18:49.840 again, it's a covenant.

01:18:50.860 And it's what, again, separates you from just being friends.

01:18:54.180 You know, like that is important to continually tie that back into your marriage and give it

01:18:58.080 to Christ.

01:18:58.640 It's a really great point.

01:18:59.320 And it's funny because we talked earlier about you've had theological confusion, as has everybody.

01:19:03.620 Yes, I have.

01:19:04.420 But here you're speaking with great clarity, much greater clarity than I hear even many—

01:19:08.820 Probably because I'm not being cussed at and yelled at and called a whore.

01:19:12.440 By a Christian.

01:19:15.020 Amazing, amazing.

01:19:15.680 Could be.

01:19:16.120 I don't know.

01:19:17.300 But, you know, this distinction, what distinguishes a marriage from a couple of roommates or—we've

01:19:24.440 redefined marriage in our law at the Supreme Court in a very ridiculous way.

01:19:27.860 But what—well, spouses sleep together. 1.00

01:19:31.480 But boyfriend and girlfriend sleep together.

01:19:33.000 They do.

01:19:33.180 So what distinguishes it?

01:19:35.880 And a traditional definition of marriage is that marriage is a union of a man and a woman,

01:19:41.440 a permanent union of a man and a woman for the sake of the procreation and education of

01:19:47.880 children, and as a secondary matter, for the mutual support of the spouses.

01:19:51.520 Yeah.

01:19:51.740 Now we seem to have flipped that, so we think, oh, it's just about supporting each other

01:19:55.680 in our needs and actually forget about kids, and you don't even need to have sex, but if 0.56

01:20:00.940 you do, it can be sterile and contraceptive.

01:20:03.760 Oh, that's harsh.

01:20:04.680 I wonder—I was talking to a friend of mine before this interview, and I said, what is

01:20:09.160 it?

01:20:09.360 I was floating my thought on why the mainstream pornography moments are so weird now.

01:20:15.240 He said, well, I think so many people are addicted to pornography, and it actually makes

01:20:20.060 them less capable of doing the real thing and less inclined to get married.

01:20:24.220 He said, because they're very different actions to be, you know, looking at pornography and doing

01:20:30.440 what people do.

01:20:31.140 And then being procreative.

01:20:31.900 And being procreative, that that's actually—the difference—pornography and the attendant activities

01:20:37.780 are an entirely sterile act.

01:20:41.020 But then let's take it a little further.

01:20:43.340 So much of our modern culture, many modern marriages are sterile as well.

01:20:49.360 Maybe it's a little bit of a blurrier line in modern life.

01:20:54.200 Wow.

01:20:54.740 Not as you're describing it.

01:20:55.460 That's a good point, though.

01:20:56.740 It can be—we've seen from different couples that it seems to be very sterile.

01:21:01.160 And we even promised ourselves, like, we're never getting there.

01:21:04.400 Like, we will do anything it takes to put us above kids or, you know, whatever it may

01:21:09.620 be.

01:21:09.940 But we are important to each other, and we always want to share that importance because

01:21:15.180 it's special.

01:21:17.140 It's something that we've dedicated our now future to, our entire future to.

01:21:21.340 So that's pretty important to work on, I think.

01:21:23.440 And I think, honestly, sex in marriage is like 40% of the marriage.

01:21:28.580 For me.

01:21:29.200 Not as a matter of—

01:21:30.260 There's a lot of moving parts, but I think it's so important to have intimacy.

01:21:35.540 It's not just sex.

01:21:36.300 It is intimacy.

01:21:37.240 Yeah.

01:21:37.500 This is one of the arguments against contraception.

01:21:39.880 Now we live in a very contraceptive age.

01:21:41.320 Yeah.

01:21:41.620 But one of the arguments against it is, in a marriage, you're supposed to give fully of

01:21:45.460 yourself one to another.

01:21:47.540 And so you can get pretty close, but with contraception, you are withholding something.

01:21:53.840 You're holding something back, you know.

01:21:55.140 And—but to say that—people are going to go crazy just hearing that in this interview.

01:21:59.320 Yes.

01:21:59.620 Because even religious people, even conservative people, even—they'll say, well, hold on

01:22:04.260 a second here.

01:22:05.000 You mean—you mean really radically, totally give of yourself and be totally open to life?

01:22:10.000 Yes.

01:22:10.320 What percentage of people, even who are married, behave that way?

01:22:13.640 Huh.

01:22:14.180 I don't know.

01:22:14.680 A very small percentage, I'd say.

01:22:16.940 Because if you are not—if you get into a marriage and you are not willing to change,

01:22:21.920 you will have problems for the rest of your life.

01:22:24.600 Because the biggest thing we have learned in this marriage and through arguments and disagreements

01:22:31.380 is that it is no longer about you.

01:22:34.260 Yep.

01:22:34.820 You need to take your expectations off the table.

01:22:38.440 Because we all have expectations, maybe not about the full marriage, but when circumstances

01:22:42.540 happen, you have an expectation almost immediately.

01:22:45.320 If you take that away and leave the canvas open, it's more beautiful that way.

01:22:51.300 And you don't feel like your painting has been now messed up.

01:22:54.000 It is just a blank canvas, and you can appreciate the art in that.

01:22:57.920 So sacrifice is a big thing.

01:23:00.480 You need to be willing to sacrifice even little things sometimes.

01:23:04.060 Especially little things.

01:23:05.160 Especially little things.

01:23:06.020 That's most what people argue about, is small things.

01:23:07.900 Little things.

01:23:08.380 Things that don't matter.

01:23:09.540 Do we go to Chinese food or Burger King tonight?

01:23:12.320 Yes.

01:23:12.860 Neither, please.

01:23:13.540 I'll just cook it.

01:23:16.620 It's okay.

01:23:17.680 But yeah, I just feel like, again, sacrifice is the most humbling thing you can do.

01:23:24.000 To humble yourself before your spouse.

01:23:26.500 And just, let's see what God can do here.

01:23:30.380 Like, you have an idea.

01:23:31.820 I have an idea.

01:23:32.500 Let's put it together.

01:23:33.280 Let's workshop it a little bit.

01:23:34.380 But let's really try to avoid an argument through this.

01:23:37.700 Talking harshly, we got it.

01:23:39.320 We can do that, you know.

01:23:40.400 But like, absolutely blowing up.

01:23:42.900 Now, we used to have those arguments, too.

01:23:44.760 Like, it's just hard.

01:23:45.560 When you have so much on your plate, as a brand new married couple, it's difficult.

01:23:51.620 Totally overwhelming.

01:23:52.020 And you both deal with things differently.

01:23:53.940 And then you have to understand the way they deal with things.

01:23:57.100 And it has to become like a pattern to you, so you understand it.

01:24:00.020 Like, when we started fighting, I understood.

01:24:02.700 Like, I get to see him do the exact same thing in every fight.

01:24:05.120 And I'm like, okay, this is how he operates.

01:24:07.240 But how am I operating now?

01:24:09.000 Because, like, it affects him this way.

01:24:11.800 So how can I not even just change, but redirect?

01:24:16.500 Like, let's go a healthier option here.

01:24:18.520 And it's actually helped in our arguments so much.

01:24:22.040 Just letting each other finish, respecting the time that they have and what their thought

01:24:27.460 process was or is on a certain topic, and then kind of going from there.

01:24:32.640 There are two kinds of debates.

01:24:34.400 The kind where you do it on TV, and it's to totally destroy the other guy for the benefit

01:24:38.880 of the audience, to persuade them.

01:24:40.040 But then there's the debate you have with your friend or your spouse, which there's

01:24:44.060 nothing good to be gained from totally destroying, with facts and logic, the other person.

01:24:48.420 Because this other person is part of your flesh.

01:24:50.660 I mean, you're one flesh.

01:24:52.340 So you have to bring them along, or you can get divorced. 1.00

01:24:55.880 Now, some people are betting against your marriage.

01:24:59.160 Oh, yeah.

01:24:59.900 I will take you on that bet, and I'll raise you $10.

01:25:03.880 You will.

01:25:04.680 Or $500,000.

01:25:05.640 Well, I just think that's, like, the enemy speaking clearly.

01:25:08.320 The enemy does not want people to get divorced.

01:25:10.220 Is there any circumstance in which you would ever get divorced?

01:25:12.440 Any circumstance?

01:25:12.900 Not one.

01:25:13.600 Cheating.

01:25:14.260 Cheating, you would get divorced.

01:25:15.100 Adultery.

01:25:15.920 Well, that's biblical.

01:25:16.640 I wouldn't get divorced for cheating.

01:25:18.620 It depends.

01:25:19.400 Some would argue it's not biblical, but I understand the verse you're reading.

01:25:22.040 Yeah, well, like, let's say he cheated, or committed adultery.

01:25:27.320 I would first go to the Lord to see if that was actually what he wanted.

01:25:31.200 Because people can stay and work through issues and the mistrust.

01:25:35.660 But if God was like, I'd be like, bye.

01:25:39.520 Like, bye.

01:25:40.200 It would obviously hurt so, so much, and vice versa.

01:25:43.140 But that would be the only scenario where I'd actually consider a divorcement.

01:25:47.580 Like, divorcing?

01:25:48.600 Divorcement, a word? 0.99

01:25:49.740 We can make it a word.

01:25:51.460 Language is evolving and organic.

01:25:52.060 I continue to make up words on your show.

01:25:53.660 We should just write a whole, like, Nala dictionary.

01:25:55.920 I love that.

01:25:57.600 That is the one case.

01:25:58.800 Because I like the $10 bet.

01:26:01.960 I think that's great.

01:26:02.740 You know, I love that attitude of, I will not divorce my wife.

01:26:05.900 One of your chief critics and I, we were having a conversation about this.

01:26:10.120 And I said, she said, would you divorce your wife?

01:26:13.320 And I said, there is no circumstance in which I would ever divorce my wife.

01:26:17.900 She said, what about adultery? 0.86

01:26:19.460 And I said, no, that would be terribly painful.

01:26:22.220 I would make my life a misery for a great deal of time.

01:26:25.500 But no, there is no circumstance in the universe in which I would ever divorce my wife.

01:26:33.420 And she was shocked by this, scandalized by this.

01:26:36.100 Now, I would make a bet of any number of dollars that my wife would not do that. 1.00

01:26:42.540 But it does happen in certain marriages.

01:26:44.740 It does.

01:26:45.060 And I would say, even then, you know, what God has joined, let no man separate.

01:26:52.020 It would seem to me that as a matter of the natural law and certainly of our Lord coming

01:26:57.380 down in the new covenant, divorce is just off the table.

01:27:01.840 And the reason that I think it's really important as a practical day-to-day matter is if you know

01:27:08.720 that there's no way out, if you know that there is no, you are just with this person for the rest

01:27:14.420 of your natural life, I think you're going to be much more likely to make things work and to support your spouse and actually to flourish in every minute of the day than if you think there's even the slightest chance of a plan B.

01:27:31.060 Yeah, I agree with that.

01:27:33.280 We don't believe in divorce at all.

01:27:35.860 We just know what the Bible says about divorce and like the only option pretty much is adultery.

01:27:40.300 But again, God saves people out of divorce.

01:27:43.720 And I fully believe in that power.

01:27:46.540 So that would never be something we want.

01:27:49.700 We don't joke about divorcing.

01:27:51.340 We don't ever bring it up in like a hateful way.

01:27:54.280 It's not like a word we use because it's not in our forefront.

01:27:58.460 We want to work it out.

01:28:00.700 And if anything, God is here to help us work things out.

01:28:04.500 So I'm like, that's again goes back to not being selfish in your marriage.

01:28:08.620 If you are selfish and self-sufficient and everything is about you or your other partner, it's not going to work.

01:28:15.200 You will carry this resentment through your marriage because you didn't get what you wanted.

01:28:21.700 That's not what marriage is. 0.99

01:28:23.080 It's what both of you can accomplish together and as a team.

01:28:26.740 And I just find that we've found that so nicely.

01:28:31.740 It's not been easy.

01:28:33.060 And there's been a lot of sacrifices on both ends.

01:28:36.100 But it's been such a learning journey.

01:28:39.380 And there's just been so much love through it.

01:28:42.180 Like so much grace from both him and I.

01:28:44.160 Like when he messes up, I find that God is calling me to be graceful.

01:28:48.320 And then same with him.

01:28:50.000 Like if my thing is like if we can make it through this and like be joyous, like coming out of it.

01:28:57.380 It makes me kind of like question people getting married now and getting divorced after a year.

01:29:03.480 Because I'm like, one, we got married fast.

01:29:05.720 But two, also we're going through the craziest thing like that's happened was like in less than a year.

01:29:11.740 And we're still strong, you know?

01:29:15.620 It's just like I guess like the question would be what is the strength that we have that other marriages lack?

01:29:23.280 Even just based off the first year.

01:29:25.020 So what's the answer?

01:29:25.900 I would honestly just say God.

01:29:27.620 But also the ability to see her as more than an object but also as my best friend and partner who like I'm on this mission with.

01:29:41.900 You know, it's like I know she has my six and I know I have her six.

01:29:45.160 Oh, yeah.

01:29:45.500 And it's like our mission is to spread the gospel, you know?

01:29:48.480 It's like this life here on earth is very temporary, you know?

01:29:52.280 Like I said before, like I'm not guaranteed the next five minutes.

01:29:55.580 So it's like I'm going to live like it's my last day, you know, my last day with her.

01:30:00.200 So it's like I'm going to continuously try to do my best for her and also for God.

01:30:05.440 So it's like for me and for anyone else out there, it's just like really dig in because like this is the area where it's like you're testing out your battle.

01:30:19.160 Like you're testing.

01:30:20.160 This is your battleground.

01:30:21.540 So it's like are you going to fight or are you going to give up?

01:30:23.740 That's an insightful observation that you and your spouse are not merely there for the enjoyment of one another.

01:30:32.320 You are actually doing something together because I cringe a little when I hear people refer to their spouse or their boyfriend or girlfriend as their partner.

01:30:42.940 You're not using it that way.

01:30:44.500 But when they'll introduce you, say this is my partner, Skylar or something.

01:30:48.480 I think, oh, you guys have an accounting firm together?

01:30:50.940 Oh, you guys are homosexuals? 1.00

01:30:52.920 Sometimes a man and a woman will say this is my partner, your partner.

01:30:55.920 In what?

01:30:57.040 What do you mean your partner?

01:30:57.760 Or they'll say, oh, I'm just so glad I found, you know, my person.

01:31:02.560 My person.

01:31:03.120 This happens.

01:31:03.860 I go to weddings sometimes.

01:31:07.200 My more liberal, you know, relatives and friends.

01:31:10.460 And people write their own vows.

01:31:13.300 And it's, you know, teehee, I promise always to put the socks in the hamper.

01:31:17.180 Oh, yeah.

01:31:17.600 I promise to make you a margarita on Saturday.

01:31:21.100 Maybe I'm too much of a curmudgeon.

01:31:22.780 But the focus at a deeper level seems to be on how is this person going to amuse me?

01:31:29.120 And how am I going to amuse this person?

01:31:30.680 And how are we all going to just have kind of a fun time?

01:31:33.200 But what you're describing is, no, we're doing something.

01:31:37.140 And so in this case, you're describing evangelism and missions.

01:31:39.680 But even at the basic level of a marriage, what is a marriage?

01:31:44.040 We were talking about the Trinity earlier.

01:31:45.300 Yes.

01:31:45.780 Right?

01:31:45.980 You have God the Father, eternally beginning God the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

01:31:50.400 Who is the bond of love between the Father and the Son?

01:31:55.320 That the love between the Father and the Son is so real that he is a person of the Trinity,

01:32:00.260 consubstantial in the Godhead, one God.

01:32:03.120 And you think within a marriage, a husband and a wife love each other so much that in

01:32:08.540 principle, some people suffer infertility, but in principle, they love each other so much

01:32:12.120 that another human being is made out of that.

01:32:15.220 That's a pretty astounding fact.

01:32:16.560 And now all of a sudden, you have this family, which is bigger than either of you individually

01:32:21.620 or even the sum of its parts, and that is doing something, that is moving through time and space.

01:32:26.700 There's an activity to it.

01:32:28.020 You're not just sitting in a room figuring out where to go to brunch next.

01:32:33.680 Yeah, absolutely.

01:32:35.040 We feel called to the mission field.

01:32:37.300 Whatever God has called us to, we don't know what that looks like.

01:32:41.100 But sometimes God doesn't give you the full picture.

01:32:42.820 He'll just give you pieces.

01:32:43.700 And right now, those pieces look like, for me, reaching out to the women in this industry,

01:32:49.040 before the industry, and post the industry.

01:32:52.920 And for him, just really helping men develop.

01:32:57.580 We are called to be disciples.

01:32:59.160 So that's all we consider ourselves is just discipling others with the knowledge that we

01:33:04.780 hold and Holy Spirit teaching through us.

01:33:07.820 Because there's so many times where I'm talking and I look back on that, I'm like, wow,

01:33:11.640 wow, that's so powerful.

01:33:13.500 Like, that's incredible.

01:33:14.480 Thank you, Holy Spirit, so much for just guiding me through this.

01:33:16.320 Where did that come from?

01:33:17.160 Literally, where did that come from?

01:33:18.680 So it's been quite an amazing journey speaking to the amount of people that we've spoken to.

01:33:25.660 Like, it's been crazy because it's different people from like all different kinds of walks

01:33:31.420 of life.

01:33:32.420 And you're like, I don't know how to help you in this area directly.

01:33:35.380 However, let's sit down and pray about this.

01:33:37.780 Let's get some discernment on this because we don't know.

01:33:41.000 And you don't know clearly.

01:33:42.100 So let's talk to the one who does know about it.

01:33:45.080 So all we can do is continue to lead people towards Christ like you were referring to in

01:33:49.460 your last video defending me.

01:33:51.280 That should be the point.

01:33:53.120 That's the point of all of this.

01:33:54.880 Like, again, everything could be stripped from us like Job.

01:33:58.040 But the whole point of it is to be a servant of Christ, servant, a disciple, somebody to help

01:34:03.100 others.

01:34:03.860 We're not here for ourselves in this temporary residence.

01:34:07.020 And even in heaven, we won't be there for ourselves.

01:34:08.860 We'll be there for God.

01:34:10.020 So just live a servant's life.

01:34:12.820 Seems like the direction is what's really important here.

01:34:15.920 Because you think, you talk to someone that they can't perfectly articulate, I don't know,

01:34:21.460 you know, the nature of the Trinity or something.

01:34:23.520 And you think, well, I can better articulate that.

01:34:26.100 And I think, well, hold on.

01:34:27.060 There are a lot of things that I can't articulate that someone like a St. Augustine or St. Thomas

01:34:31.440 Aquinas could articulate better.

01:34:33.100 But then you think St. Thomas Aquinas, probably the greatest theologian ever to live, he had

01:34:37.220 a mystical vision.

01:34:37.940 He said, everything I've written is like straw.

01:34:40.240 He wanted to burn his works because he said, okay, he had a mystical vision of God.

01:34:43.400 He said everything.

01:34:44.180 And, you know, he wrote very well of God.

01:34:46.680 But, you know, in our limited human reason, is there really all that much difference between

01:34:53.340 someone who's been living the faith for 10 years and a catechumen or a novice or someone

01:34:59.200 who's just kind of, you know, maybe there's like that much difference, you know, but the

01:35:02.980 difference between that and the reality of God is infinite.

01:35:07.720 So isn't it just, if you can talk to these young women or to these young men, just kind

01:35:13.140 of going down the wrong path and you kind of just help turn them a little bit.

01:35:16.360 Yeah.

01:35:16.380 And, you know, as long as they keep moving in the right direction, that seems rather good.

01:35:20.840 Right.

01:35:21.180 And we're not always just planting the seeds.

01:35:23.160 Sometimes those seeds have been planted by others, but we need to come along with some

01:35:27.120 water or some sunlight or just continue to fertilize that seed until it actually can

01:35:32.600 get out of the ground.

01:35:34.040 You know, being grounded is a hard thing, like being a seed.

01:35:37.260 Think about how difficult it is being underground.

01:35:39.360 With all of this dirt on top of you, you're not seeing sunlight.

01:35:42.520 You're just getting drowned in water and you're just like stuck.

01:35:45.720 But then when there's growth, it's like this breaking point, you're breaking through the

01:35:49.680 soil and you're like, oh, the sun was there this whole time.

01:35:53.540 Like, I'm finally better now.

01:35:56.160 But you needed those people that God put in place to help come along and help that process

01:36:02.340 along.

01:36:03.000 So if I'm just one of those people who just helps fertilize or helps water or helps be

01:36:07.140 the sun or actually plants the seed, I'm here for it.

01:36:10.180 So how do you grow the seed for the men? 0.74

01:36:13.960 We've talked about the women who are in porn or OnlyFans and that's its whole own difficulty.

01:36:22.080 But probably the broader problem, more widespread problem, is these young men who are the ones 1.00

01:36:28.000 looking at porn.

01:36:29.080 So what do you tell them very practically?

01:36:31.100 So for me myself, like I used to struggle with porn up until a couple of years ago where

01:36:36.560 God really just set me free from that.

01:36:38.680 And I was just, I just needed to let go because like the biggest struggle for men, because I

01:36:43.400 feel like over 50% of men, if not over 80% of men have seen porn or watch porn.

01:36:50.420 Um, but my whole thing is like, I would always be in that moment where I'd be like, all right,

01:36:55.880 just like, just one more time, one more time where it was just kind of like, exactly, exactly.

01:37:01.400 It was like day one, I got to stop, you know, one day or day one, you know, I got to stop.

01:37:07.880 I got to make the decision to actually stop.

01:37:10.220 You know, what does the Bible say about sexual sin?

01:37:12.180 Flee from sexual sin.

01:37:13.300 Do not fight it, you know, because you're not going to win.

01:37:15.540 You're not going to win at all.

01:37:16.320 Um, so that's where I let really just God take over control where I was just like, all

01:37:21.780 right, I got to actually start doing things to keep me away from this path.

01:37:28.020 And what I've implemented, I started a discord where men like can just click by link and join.

01:37:34.340 And it's just a bunch of group of guys.

01:37:35.800 My friend Nadine's actually helping all the girls.

01:37:38.600 Um, they're kind of like, they're separated groups, but, um, girls who perform in porn or 0.99

01:37:42.420 girls who look at porn? 1.00

01:37:43.540 Struggling with lust.

01:37:44.140 Yeah.

01:37:44.440 Struggling with lust.

01:37:45.340 Struggling with lust.

01:37:46.000 Struggling with lust in porn.

01:37:46.480 Broadly.

01:37:46.800 Yeah, because it's called lust to life.

01:37:49.120 Um, so like we do like daily check-ins.

01:37:51.200 I'll throw stuff in there.

01:37:52.240 Um, and I have a couple of other people helping me as well.

01:37:54.940 Um, but it's pretty much just helping each other.

01:37:57.740 Just when they're in their weak moments, just messaging in the chat or having their accountability

01:38:03.200 partner, um, and just like reaching out to them, calling them and be like, yo, like,

01:38:07.060 I'm struggling with this.

01:38:07.720 Like you just pray for me.

01:38:08.620 Can you just help and just stay on the phone so we can just like talk to just distract me from,

01:38:12.780 you know, that urge that the enemy tried to put in my life.

01:38:16.320 Um, so for me, it's just like, I, I feel really called just to help the men, you know,

01:38:21.600 not, not because of her past, but like even just help the men.

01:38:24.920 I've been helping men just before, um, like we even met.

01:38:28.680 Yeah.

01:38:28.960 Yeah.

01:38:29.000 I've been helping men just like get closer and break free out of that.

01:38:31.400 Cause I know exactly how hard that struggle is to break free.

01:38:35.280 And porn must be the most widespread sin that men deal with.

01:38:40.480 I'm not saying it's even the worst sin though.

01:38:41.840 It's a bad one because it traps you.

01:38:43.260 It's easy, but it must be the most widespread.

01:38:46.320 Yeah.

01:38:46.660 There aren't that many people, you know, doing carjackings.

01:38:50.160 That's true.

01:38:50.680 Oh, that means Chicago, but, uh, but, uh, for, for me, it's just like, yeah, lust is the biggest thing.

01:38:56.660 Like what I said before, it's like, it's everywhere.

01:38:58.300 You see it on billboards, magazines, anywhere you look, there's something that lust.

01:39:01.800 And that's always like the entry point, like the gateway to, you know, watching porn, you

01:39:07.420 know, that's how you have like minors watching porn and it's like, it's too accessible.

01:39:12.760 One, like it's got to start with the parents, but yeah, you, you have to be able to help

01:39:17.520 these people before they even step in that doorway of like, okay, you know, this is, this

01:39:22.980 is a little risque, but like, I'm going to, I'm going to stay away from it, you know, rather

01:39:26.440 than take the step into it.

01:39:27.520 Like maybe just a peak.

01:39:28.740 No, that peak is a straight elevator shaft that you're going to fall down and you're not

01:39:34.380 going to know where the button is to get back up.

01:39:36.280 But God does.

01:39:37.340 He's the light, you know, he's the light in the shaft where it's like the buttons right

01:39:42.140 there.

01:39:42.640 I have noticed this just in my own life that if, if I am in a state of grace, I, I can resist

01:39:52.360 sin pretty well, not really through power of my own, but, but I can resist sin thanks to

01:39:55.920 God's grace.

01:39:56.320 And then sometimes you're tempted by a sin and it can be not just lust, it can be an angry

01:40:02.180 word or it can be pride or it can be anything, it can be any sin.

01:40:05.740 And there is a moment where you're tempted, but you, you could say no, but the moment you

01:40:11.480 start entertaining it, considering it, indulging it, then you're going to be more tempted.

01:40:17.460 And then once you commit it, the kind of traditional understanding of this from the

01:40:20.840 Johannine epistle is that there's mortal sin and venial sin and venial sin wounds you and

01:40:27.400 mortal sin cuts off the life of grace.

01:40:29.600 And when you, in my experience, when one commits a mortal sin, it's a lot easier to sin and

01:40:37.280 it's much harder not to sin.

01:40:38.780 And one can confess one's sins and receive absolution and, you know, be restored to a

01:40:44.480 state of grace.

01:40:45.520 But some people who are unfamiliar with this are going to think it sounds kind of high in

01:40:50.820 the sky, woo woo.

01:40:51.820 I found this to be very practical, very tangible, that the moment you start to cooperate with

01:40:58.860 sin rather than with God, it's like down a mine shaft.

01:41:04.000 It's not a, it's not a gradual sort of thing.

01:41:06.240 Right.

01:41:06.400 It's just gets so much more slippery.

01:41:08.640 Like it gets easier and easier and your justifications in your head continue to justify what you're

01:41:14.300 doing.

01:41:14.820 And then it goes back to the whole, like, well, I'll just get saved or I'll just repent

01:41:18.400 later.

01:41:19.220 God will forgive me.

01:41:20.220 But tomorrow also talks about that.

01:41:22.160 Like you actually knowing that you're going to sin and then sinning, like you have the thought

01:41:27.460 process of going into it that you know you're sinning.

01:41:30.340 And that's a sin.

01:41:31.200 That's the sin of presumption.

01:41:32.060 There you go.

01:41:33.000 Just too many sins.

01:41:34.080 There's a lot.

01:41:34.640 There's a lot you could commit.

01:41:35.940 But it's obviously not going to happen in this lifetime.

01:41:39.200 But there is so much grace.

01:41:41.400 Like I feel like a lot of people like to think of God as like this big guy who's just going

01:41:44.940 to squash him, squash you with his thumb. 0.55

01:41:47.100 But there's so much grace and mercy.

01:41:49.700 But it also goes into fearing God.

01:41:51.700 You can love God, but if you do not fear him, you will not obey him.

01:41:55.380 Holy fear.

01:41:55.900 You won't.

01:41:56.500 Holy fear.

01:41:57.060 Yeah.

01:41:57.740 So I also read a really great book about that too.

01:42:01.280 And it really put into perspective about, you know, I was like really diving deep into like

01:42:06.160 what is it to fear God?

01:42:07.860 It's not just like trembling.

01:42:09.320 And now people did that in the Bible where they were just trembling over seeing an angel

01:42:12.880 or hearing God's voice, you know, and not even fully seeing him, but like Moses with

01:42:17.360 the burning bush just trembling.

01:42:19.160 I'd probably tremble too.

01:42:19.880 In his presence.

01:42:20.600 Oh, I would too.

01:42:21.360 I'd be so scared.

01:42:22.720 But respect.

01:42:25.520 If you respect someone you're

01:42:27.060 following them, you know, like you understand the decisions they're making, or maybe you

01:42:31.220 don't and you still follow them for it.

01:42:33.320 That's like mad respect for who they are, what they've done.

01:42:37.000 And we all need to reserve this place in our hearts where there is fear of the Lord.

01:42:42.220 Like we fear God.

01:42:44.040 We will obey him.

01:42:45.440 Yes.

01:42:45.960 That's why it's called The All of God.

01:42:47.340 I love that book.

01:42:49.320 Yeah.

01:42:50.120 And even you point out we have, there's so many sins and there are so many sins, but

01:42:54.520 a priest pointed this out to me.

01:42:57.580 You know, we misunderstand sin a lot.

01:43:00.300 We think sin is breaking a rule.

01:43:02.060 It's not really a rule to your point on grace.

01:43:04.080 Sin is a violation of a relationship with grace.

01:43:06.980 And there are rules and the rules are guardrails to help you navigate that.

01:43:10.580 But I'd be curious your experience talking to these guys who are reaching out for help.

01:43:17.180 You know, sin is not just, okay, I'm going to look at that website, but not that one.

01:43:23.400 But that one's not great either.

01:43:24.420 But it's like, that's technically on this side of the, that's not really how it works,

01:43:28.100 right?

01:43:28.420 No.

01:43:29.040 You kind of know.

01:43:30.360 And more to it, God knows.

01:43:33.400 And God knows that you know.

01:43:34.920 And you're not really fooling anybody.

01:43:36.300 But yeah, because like the one thing about God is like, he can hear your thoughts.

01:43:40.400 So he knows your intentions.

01:43:41.980 You know, the devil doesn't know your intentions, but God does.

01:43:44.720 Right.

01:43:44.920 So it's like, God's also going to search your intentions.

01:43:47.580 You know, on judgment day, he's going to search the intentions you did, you know, behind closed

01:43:51.720 doors, you know, what you thought about certain things or what you did for certain reasons.

01:43:56.440 And it's like, God's going to judge you accordingly.

01:43:58.240 So everyone thinks they're Scott, like free and clear, Scott free.

01:44:02.140 And like, even though the people you're around might be like, oh my gosh, you know, like,

01:44:09.460 yeah, yeah.

01:44:10.220 But God knows your intention.

01:44:11.880 Right.

01:44:12.040 So God's going to just you, like justify, you know, what's going on.

01:44:16.420 And a lot of people flip that.

01:44:17.720 And they say, no, well, look, I do bad things all the time.

01:44:20.140 And I put myself in the near occasion of sin.

01:44:22.000 But in a really abstract way, you know, I've kind of got good intentions.

01:44:26.540 So, well, maybe.

01:44:28.800 Like based on what?

01:44:29.840 Yeah.

01:44:30.060 Also, how about the other way around?

01:44:31.440 When you do something that you're trying to argue is technically okay, or you're doing

01:44:36.120 something that seems right, but with really bad intentions.

01:44:39.280 Kind of like my haters.

01:44:42.420 Like they think you're doing something right by lying, but you're actually lying, you know?

01:44:49.600 But like, and there's no intent behind it.

01:44:51.280 It goes on and on and on.

01:44:52.740 There's no intent behind any of it.

01:44:54.940 You know, and that's what also helped us like get over all the hate was like, oh, these people

01:44:59.240 are just talking.

01:45:00.340 They're just talking to talk and be noticed, which you're actually blaming me for.

01:45:04.740 So it's like kind of funny.

01:45:05.940 It's kind of like the hypocrisy behind it is like, you think I'm just over here trying

01:45:09.320 to get famous, but you're using me for fame.

01:45:11.540 So.

01:45:12.000 That's a lot of ankle biting.

01:45:13.540 That happens for sure.

01:45:15.200 But it is unpleasant.

01:45:17.180 You know, one shouldn't paper over it.

01:45:19.200 They say very nasty things about you.

01:45:22.060 Oh, yeah.

01:45:22.440 Oh, we know.

01:45:23.060 It's fair.

01:45:23.600 And we get it in our DMs.

01:45:24.880 Yeah, all the time.

01:45:25.380 You'll be shocked to hear that even for so lovable a figure as I, sometimes people will

01:45:29.220 say nasty things about me.

01:45:30.660 And it, it is unpleasant.

01:45:33.460 It actually, now I think this might be a very Catholic perspective where we kind of focus

01:45:38.500 on the sanctifying aspect of suffering.

01:45:40.560 But I, I think there can be something good about it when you get all the hate.

01:45:44.460 How so?

01:45:45.040 Well, one, it's when we suffer, we bind ourselves to Christ who has the perfect sacrifice on

01:45:50.600 the cross.

01:45:51.140 So in a very minuscule way.

01:45:54.060 Yes.

01:45:54.480 But also, it does keep you humble.

01:45:58.140 Oh.

01:45:58.600 Because the thing is, the haters get a lot of things wrong and they make stuff up and it's,

01:46:02.640 but sometimes.

01:46:03.140 Most of the time it's comical, but yeah.

01:46:04.800 But sometimes, you know, they'll say, oh, you shouldn't have said it that way.

01:46:08.660 That sounded stupid or you didn't do this.

01:46:10.880 And sometimes they got a point.

01:46:12.220 Maybe sometimes you do say something stupid.

01:46:13.980 Maybe sometimes you do something that you shouldn't have done.

01:46:17.200 And so that, it is a good way to mitigate pride.

01:46:22.660 It's one of the reasons I don't really block people very much on social media.

01:46:25.560 Wow.

01:46:25.760 I like that.

01:46:26.720 I don't block anybody either.

01:46:28.300 I like that.

01:46:28.700 Unless they're just being outright inappropriate with me.

01:46:31.640 But yeah, I would actually agree with you.

01:46:33.920 And I haven't even like seen it in that light.

01:46:36.160 It was more just, okay, God, I accept the haters too.

01:46:39.980 Like, you know, help me love them like you love them.

01:46:42.640 That's all I can really do about it.

01:46:44.960 Because I'm not about to just start commenting back or making videos now about what's going on,

01:46:51.600 you know, or being not gracious.

01:46:53.820 Because now it's like, I am just acting like you now and not like Christ.

01:46:58.980 And what would Christ do in this situation?

01:47:01.100 Most likely just forgive them and love them.

01:47:03.160 And, you know, it's a hard road.

01:47:05.800 It's a hard road.

01:47:06.360 It's a hard road.

01:47:07.760 If I was dealing with this maybe two and a half years ago, I would have reacted very differently

01:47:11.420 and probably squandered their name online.

01:47:14.120 Of course.

01:47:15.260 But I can't do that anymore because I do not represent me.

01:47:18.380 I represent Christ.

01:47:19.460 So, I think that's the biggest lesson we've probably taken out of all of this just concentrated hate against him, against me.

01:47:27.520 People just call him a simp all the time.

01:47:29.520 And I'm like, well, okay, that's great.

01:47:33.220 Like, cool word.

01:47:34.660 You like gender. 0.82

01:47:35.200 I don't know the etymology of it, but it's kind of funny.

01:47:37.160 I don't understand it.

01:47:38.540 But, yeah.

01:47:40.460 I think it's like, pretty much it comes down to, it's like, God gets the glory.

01:47:45.520 We get to tell the story.

01:47:47.000 Oh, pop off.

01:47:49.660 I like that line.

01:47:50.740 I have a friend in the Bronx who says, buddy, boy, you do your best.

01:47:53.400 God will do the rest.

01:47:54.560 That's another one like that.

01:47:55.660 Hey, there we go.

01:47:56.300 There we go.

01:47:57.040 That's a good one.

01:47:58.500 I've never heard that.

01:47:59.660 God gets the glory.

01:48:00.660 You tell the story.

01:48:01.500 Yeah, my dad always says that.

01:48:02.880 That's good.

01:48:03.740 That's good.

01:48:04.640 Now, this is a catch up.

01:48:06.740 This is the only repeat guest we've ever had.

01:48:09.940 Oh, I feel so special.

01:48:11.340 Yes, well, it really shook the internet the first time you came on.

01:48:15.040 And I think the story is really quite lovely and deserves to be told.

01:48:19.260 But it's been a year.

01:48:21.300 And so your marriage is going well.

01:48:22.820 There are difficulties in your family.

01:48:24.480 But all the vicissitudes of life happen.

01:48:29.260 How has your faith changed from your conversion to now?

01:48:34.360 I want to blurt so many things out.

01:48:39.420 I'll start with this.

01:48:41.240 My faith has grown in every single day since I've been saved.

01:48:46.160 There's not been like one day where I haven't concentrated time to Christ.

01:48:51.580 Whereas I'm praying, I'm journaling, I'm reading my Bible, I'm listening to sermons, listening

01:48:57.240 to worship music, and having that time together.

01:48:59.880 It's grown in ways that I really can't explain because I can't explain God very well.

01:49:05.900 But my relationship with Him has taken a turn where I feel like I'm truly myself with Him.

01:49:16.940 Instead of praying like I think I need to pray, I'm like, God, how can I pray to You?

01:49:22.620 Teach me.

01:49:23.460 I feel like I'm in a very teachable time in my life where I just need to be open to what

01:49:28.580 God has for me and not make assumptions about things because I've been very wrong.

01:49:34.000 So humbling, it's been very humbling and teachable.

01:49:37.680 That's, if I could describe it in two words, that would probably be it.

01:49:40.240 Because I find that every single time I pray, I'm running into something where it's like,

01:49:46.380 oh, I didn't see it like this.

01:49:48.260 Like, I'm so sorry.

01:49:49.300 Or I took this verse one way when you were trying to take it a different way.

01:49:52.680 Or, you know, it's just constantly either apologizing to Him or it's just more like,

01:49:59.660 teach me more.

01:50:00.580 Like, what else can I get from you?

01:50:02.140 And I know there's immeasurable amounts.

01:50:04.220 So I'm really looking forward to that.

01:50:07.260 Journaling has probably been something that has been almost like a therapist to me.

01:50:11.160 I write down revelations.

01:50:12.640 In the book of Habakkuk, God says to write down your revelations, like what God has done.

01:50:16.840 And I found that so powerful because I can look back and see prayers that I've prayed

01:50:21.780 and been answered.

01:50:23.160 And what I found out of that is that God truly cares about your heart and your heart's intent

01:50:30.340 and your feelings.

01:50:31.460 But God cares about your heart in ways where when I've prayed about my marriage, I see that

01:50:37.400 result.

01:50:38.140 God, it answers my prayer in my marriage because He knows that's part of my heart.

01:50:42.280 So I'm like, wow, it has brought so many revelations through tiny prayers and just being

01:50:48.120 so real with God about how I'm feeling.

01:50:50.880 And even admitting, this was a concept very hard for me to understand, but even admitting

01:50:56.020 in my prayer, God, you know what?

01:50:59.440 I wasn't trusting you at all with this.

01:51:02.140 I thought I had this way better than you did.

01:51:05.020 I didn't believe you when you told me this promise in your word.

01:51:08.400 I'm sorry.

01:51:09.060 I thought you were a liar.

01:51:10.080 Like, it is that, like, sensitive.

01:51:13.300 Like, that's how I feel like my relationship with Him is just very sensitive, humbling,

01:51:20.320 and growing in crazy ways.

01:51:23.180 Like, you know, when I became a Christian, I just thought so much was going to change.

01:51:27.400 And it did.

01:51:28.400 It did.

01:51:29.240 But in other ways.

01:51:29.780 And also nothing changes.

01:51:30.940 And also nothing changes.

01:51:32.920 So as in, yes, I gave up a lot of stuff, but I'm still me.

01:51:37.040 Yeah, yeah.

01:51:37.500 So it's like, hmm, like, what else do you want to reveal to me, God?

01:51:42.780 Yeah.

01:51:42.980 Like, what is it?

01:51:43.880 Like, you've given me this marriage.

01:51:45.300 You've given me a partner to now pray over.

01:51:47.680 It is not just about me.

01:51:48.760 It is also about Him.

01:51:49.860 And I've gotten so many amazing books, like Power of a Praying Wife, and that's an amazing

01:51:53.860 book.

01:51:54.200 I love her.

01:51:56.060 It's an amazing paradox that in some respect, everything changes.

01:52:04.640 Every single thing changes.

01:52:05.860 And in another respect, nothing changes.

01:52:08.420 Nothing changes.

01:52:09.720 Human behavior doesn't tend to change, I find.

01:52:12.980 We can grow in virtue.

01:52:14.740 Grow in virtue, yes.

01:52:16.000 I'm more talking about, like, not like...

01:52:18.080 Human nature.

01:52:18.540 I'm still, yeah, yeah.

01:52:19.700 Just, like, not doing OnlyFans, I haven't changed.

01:52:22.480 But, like, in other ways where I've been so stubborn or unwilling to sacrifice or not

01:52:28.540 humble and prideful, even.

01:52:30.420 So, it's...

01:52:32.260 This has just been an amazing journey for me.

01:52:34.580 I've learned so much.

01:52:35.620 I've had so many tears with God.

01:52:37.880 And it's just so precious because for everything that I'm going through with God, there's been

01:52:44.220 answers.

01:52:44.820 Or if there hasn't been answers, I just know that I need to obey.

01:52:47.840 That is it.

01:52:48.580 And I'm not always going to get the answer why I need to obey.

01:52:52.200 So, it's just obey.

01:52:53.880 10,000 questions don't make one doubt.

01:52:56.440 There's a wonderful charm to saying, okay, I'm going to start praying.

01:53:02.880 Hmm.

01:53:03.380 Well, I guess my first prayer is, how should I pray?

01:53:05.900 How does one pray?

01:53:06.900 That's a great way to think about it.

01:53:08.840 Your point on prayers, answered prayers, this happens to me.

01:53:12.240 I will pray for something.

01:53:13.520 Sometimes I have broader prayers.

01:53:14.900 Sometimes I'll pray for something very, very specific.

01:53:16.820 Then my prayer will be answered, and it will take me days or weeks to realize that my prayer

01:53:21.960 was answered.

01:53:22.400 I won't even remember.

01:53:23.180 Same.

01:53:23.960 And that's why I have to write them down.

01:53:25.840 Like, last night, it just happened.

01:53:28.120 I was praying over something in our marriage.

01:53:30.680 God answered it.

01:53:31.620 I literally, I was just about to fall asleep, and I was like, write down the revelation.

01:53:36.360 I wrote it down on my phone notes, and then wrote it down in my journal this morning.

01:53:39.920 And I was like, I just want to remember.

01:53:41.960 Because we, sometimes our minds are just faulty.

01:53:44.120 And I don't ever want the devil to be like, did he really?

01:53:46.160 I'm like, read back.

01:53:47.480 This is what actually happened.

01:53:49.060 Like, this is what my God did for me in my life, and has changed me drastically because

01:53:54.840 of this.

01:53:55.580 Like, this answer that he gave me to my prayer.

01:53:58.020 Even seeing new things.

01:53:59.680 I pray the rosary just about every day.

01:54:02.040 And the rosary, you pray five mysteries, which are the decades, and you meditate on the mysteries.

01:54:07.620 And you, so, and it's every day, it's a little bit different.

01:54:10.680 So there's the glorious mysteries, there's the resurrection, the ascension, the descent of

01:54:14.260 the Holy Spirit, the assumption, the coronation.

01:54:16.160 Then there are the sorrowful mysteries, you know, the agony in the garden, the scourging

01:54:20.020 at the pillar, the crowning of thorns, the carrying the cross, the crucifixion.

01:54:24.000 Then there are the joyful mysteries, which is the annunciation, and through the birth

01:54:28.640 of our Lord, and the presentation of Jesus in the temple.

01:54:31.600 And I've, but that's about it.

01:54:34.620 Some people pray another set of mysteries, but those are the three that I pray.

01:54:38.100 I've prayed them a billion times.

01:54:39.600 So you think, it's got to get kind of boring after a while, right?

01:54:43.980 It's the same prayers and the same mysteries.

01:54:46.160 I've noticed when I pray my rosary actively, and I'm not distracted, and I'm not driving

01:54:50.780 or something, I'm really actively praying.

01:54:52.980 I see something new when I pray them.

01:54:56.200 I see something new about Calvary.

01:54:57.760 I see something new about the nativity.

01:54:59.360 I see something new about the presentation or finding Jesus in the temple.

01:55:02.860 Something new happens.

01:55:03.420 I bet I could pray this for the rest of my life and for another 10,000 lives, and I would

01:55:10.020 always see something new because these are mysteries that are endlessly plumbable.

01:55:16.920 I think it's because God is a mystery.

01:55:19.180 It's not that almost every single one of those situations is a mystery, but God himself is

01:55:24.140 a mysterious God, and we won't fully even comprehend him until we get to heaven.

01:55:28.680 So I find that too in my relationship where I find out a new thing, and I'm like, oh, you

01:55:33.320 know what?

01:55:33.540 I need to tear down that wall of what was built up in thought that I thought was sure

01:55:37.920 and a fact, and it's not.

01:55:39.800 So being humble in that, and then rereading certain scriptures does that to me all the

01:55:45.240 time.

01:55:45.400 I'm like, I had no idea.

01:55:46.720 Or listening to sermons where the pastor's explaining a passage of scripture, and it's

01:55:53.620 like, wow, I didn't even understand that.

01:55:55.580 When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were in the fiery furnace, it doesn't say that the

01:56:00.620 boys saw Jesus in there with him.

01:56:02.680 It says that the king saw him, but it doesn't take notice of the fact that the boys did

01:56:08.180 not see him in the furnace with him, you know?

01:56:10.720 They just knew he was going to be with them, you know?

01:56:13.100 And I was like, huh, see, that's just a very tiny example of certain things that I've been

01:56:17.440 learning, and I'm like, wow, just scripture just constantly changes because it's the living

01:56:21.840 word of God.

01:56:22.900 It is not a dead word of God.

01:56:24.380 It's living.

01:56:25.180 It is alive.

01:56:26.020 It has a new meaning, and it's beautiful.

01:56:28.420 It's so beautiful.

01:56:30.500 That's lovely.

01:56:31.540 Thank you.

01:56:31.880 How about your faith life?

01:56:33.160 No, you were already a Christian.

01:56:34.240 Yeah.

01:56:34.720 Yeah, I mean, I'm going to go into like the whole thing.

01:56:37.900 All right, so basically, I became a Christian in 2021 after a really rough relationship.

01:56:47.440 And yeah, I mean, I've just been going straight towards God.

01:56:51.460 That's like the biggest thing, and he's been really just helping me through life in general,

01:57:00.100 and especially just like being married and actually taking that first step, you know,

01:57:03.680 getting married.

01:57:04.400 You know, I've always wanted to get married, and finally, now I'm married.

01:57:07.780 But it's like, what do I have to, like, who do I have to be and what do I have to do as

01:57:11.560 a husband in marriage, like cultivating a wife, you know, leading her closer to God, all these

01:57:16.680 different things.

01:57:18.040 But also, most importantly, like, how can I improve her?

01:57:22.580 You know, how can I improve, you know, the way I treat her? 0.84

01:57:25.240 How can I improve her life, you know, both spiritually and like physically?

01:57:32.700 But also, it comes into the point of like, all right, so God did this for me.

01:57:39.080 How can I have other people experience this love?

01:57:42.840 Because as a generation, every single person who is single right now, or maybe even with

01:57:48.560 somebody, everyone just wants love.

01:57:51.700 Everyone wants to be seen, heard, understood, valued, and just feel important.

01:57:56.940 And it's like, a lot of people will go to porn to feel something, will go to alcohol, go

01:58:01.280 to drugs, all these different things.

01:58:03.060 But in the end, it's like, all they want to feel is love.

01:58:06.280 They want to feel something.

01:58:07.680 And that's what God was able to do in my life and able to do in her life is he was able

01:58:12.640 to really just show me that there's more than the world.

01:58:17.300 There's more than just trying to fill that empty void with something.

01:58:21.000 That's going to be gone the next day.

01:58:22.900 You know, there's more to life than just self.

01:58:27.960 It's when you start acting selflessly is when life actually starts to change and when you

01:58:33.440 can actually be the change in the world, you know, be the change that you want to see in

01:58:37.200 the world.

01:58:37.720 I like this focus on doing things.

01:58:39.300 There's an insight of St. Augustine who argues against the Pelagians who say you've basically

01:58:45.720 earned your salvation.

01:58:47.160 But he's also arguing against the idea that you don't have to do anything at all.

01:58:50.860 And he says, it's summarized as, God made you without your participation, but he won't

01:58:57.300 save you without your participation.

01:58:59.320 Wow.

01:58:59.740 You don't save yourself.

01:59:01.600 He said, but St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians that he is doing these things.

01:59:06.940 He should be the least of the apostles, but he's actually doing more than them.

01:59:09.940 All of them.

01:59:10.140 But he's doing them with God's grace.

01:59:12.920 It's not, as St. Augustine says, it's not just God's grace.

01:59:16.280 It's certainly not just him.

01:59:17.800 It's with God's grace.

01:59:19.960 It's impossible without God's grace.

01:59:21.920 But he's doing stuff.

01:59:23.600 You know, St. Paul had a rough go of things.

01:59:25.800 But it didn't even maybe feel like a rough go of things because he's doing it for the

01:59:29.500 glory of God.

01:59:30.080 Yep.

01:59:31.740 Beautiful.

01:59:32.300 Lovely to see you.

01:59:32.900 Lovely to see you both again.

01:59:34.100 I didn't see you on camera last time.

01:59:35.500 I saw you off camera.

01:59:37.080 I'm glad to see things are going well because, you know, you judge the tree by the fruit.

01:59:40.480 Oh, absolutely.

01:59:41.420 That's how you do it.

01:59:42.240 All right.

01:59:42.580 Well, I'll see you next time.

01:59:43.980 See you next time for a third.

01:59:45.220 After the next round of the season, we'll do a third.

01:59:47.600 Oh, yes.

01:59:47.620 Let's do it.

01:59:48.120 We'll see when that is.

01:59:48.900 They're going to go crazy over this.

01:59:50.320 Thank you both for coming on.

01:59:52.080 Of course.

01:59:52.300 Thank you for having us.

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