00:01:44.140and I think you'll all enjoy this episode.
00:01:46.320If you do, don't forget to hit the subscribe button.
00:01:52.020chris duffin welcome to my podcast yeah thanks for having me on been uh looking forward to it
00:02:03.820to this for a little while yeah it's it's been a while since i invited you
00:02:08.860had a had a weird year but i'm glad to be speaking with you now well i've been watching it's a lot of
00:02:15.740good stuff always ups and downs but uh you know the challenges are they're they're what make us
00:02:20.900better, right? Oh man, I hope so. And that's kind of what I want to talk to you about because you've
00:02:26.720had a hell of a life. So before we get into that, can you give a brief background about who you are
00:02:33.180and what you do? Yeah, that's a, it's a little tough to do as far as brief, because I play in
00:02:40.060a lot of different areas, but most people kind of know me as this guy that's done feats of
00:02:46.820strength, right? But I also own a number of companies that I've co-founded. So Kabuki Strength
00:02:54.320is the primary one, and we make the best biomechanically sound barbell equipment in the
00:03:00.260world, as well as education and coaching. So we've got probably the leading scientific advisory board
00:03:07.800within the fitness is definitely exercise equipment realm. Also co-founded Barefoot
00:03:13.980athletics which is a shoe company based on uh foot mechanics and build fast formula which is
00:03:21.560kind of my supplementation uh program so so yeah i'm a successful entrepreneur but before this
00:03:29.000stuff i actually did uh i did lead turnarounds and things like that for about 20 years i ran
00:03:35.540automotive and aerospace manufacturing companies doing turnarounds prepping companies for sale
00:03:39.720things of that nature. So, um, only person that's ever squatted and deadlifted a thousand pounds.
00:03:47.680And I did it for reps. That'll be a documentary that's coming out next year. So I mentioned all
00:03:53.220these things because I like to show the, the end results. So when people hear like where I came
00:03:58.300from, they can understand, um, the, you know, just how far that is. Uh, but, uh, you know,
00:04:05.700it's, it's three things. I've been highly successful and in leadership and business
00:04:10.920and athletics, as well as entrepreneurship, which is usually if I'm one or the other. And, uh, so
00:04:16.320my specialty is kind of biomechanics as well as rehab and, uh, this kind of return to play,
00:04:24.140getting people out of pain and working in those areas. So I, I do a lot of speaking at like
00:04:28.680physical therapy and chiropractic colleges and other events, uh, things like that.
00:04:33.180Cool. Okay. We have quite a bit to cover. I think before we get into the successes,
00:04:40.140I think we should start with a bit of the hardships you went through growing up so
00:04:45.200people can have an idea of where you came from. Yeah. I'll try to do the elevator pitch version
00:04:52.000and hit the high points, but I grew up. We're not just talking poor, but because today in this
00:05:01.160world. You see people that, you know, have challenged for, for, you know, income, but they
00:05:06.220still have their smartphone. They still have their clothes. They still have their gaming centers.
00:05:10.960I grew up homeless in the wilderness. So this is Northern California in the late seventies and
00:05:17.460through the eighties, uh, where we were living off grid. Uh, there was times like six years old
00:05:24.380where we're living out by a stream. There's no roads into where we're at. We've got beams lashed
00:05:30.020up into the trees and that's where our bedding is at at night because there's rattlesnake dens i'm
00:05:35.440six years old my brother's four uh my sister's uh like one year old and my mom's pregnant
00:05:42.680and uh and that's the environment i'm i'm being taught how to capture live rattlesnakes by hand
00:05:50.720because that's the environment i live in like here's a here's how you carve a forked stick
00:05:56.780And this is how you entice it to strike so that you can, you can capture and pin its neck and then pick it up and then hold it and know how to hold and control this snake while it's wrapping around your arm with the only intent in its life at that point is to kill you.
00:06:12.080And so, you know, learning how to manage your fear, because if you don't, if you let fear overtake you, you're going to die. And if you don't respect it and you're just careless and have no fear whatsoever, you're going to die.
00:06:26.780Like, so I learned these lessons, uh, around a lot of things in a different manner at a very
00:06:33.420young age. So it was that bring, it wasn't always necessarily homeless. Like during the school year,
00:06:40.060we would be closer to society. We might have something, it might just be missing a shack,
00:06:45.320missing running water or electricity or both. So it's like, you know, during the summer,
00:06:50.480you're filling up a gallon jug down on the stream and setting it out on a rock
00:06:53.880and letting it heat up through the day. So you can dump it over your head or,
00:06:58.160you know, during the winter, uh, it's like in, in Oregon where we had, you know, snow,
00:07:02.880I'd be out on a couple of feet of snow in the back, out the back door after heating up a pot,
00:07:07.040you know, this is in junior high on the, on the wood, on the wood stoves. So I could try to try
00:07:12.200to clean because I'm getting made fun of at school because I, I smell funny. And that's,
00:07:18.360that's just a different environment. And when you're what people don't realize, so yeah,
00:07:23.300when i talk about it people will kind of fantasize about it going man that must have been amazing
00:07:29.280but they missed the piece well as far as that like the living in the wilderness and not having
00:07:34.720you know the connection with all the things like we didn't have we didn't have tv we didn't have
00:07:39.620radio we just read books my parents were very intelligent they just chose not to be part of
00:07:45.500society my my mom was actually going to school to be a chemical engineer top of her class my
00:07:51.240My father was a member of Mensa, like we, our life, the library was, was our friend.
00:07:57.880That's where we read books by candlelight, by flashlight, like consumed a mass amount.
00:08:02.680But what people don't realize when they kind of romanticize this life of, you know, forging
00:08:07.080for food and hunting animals and living in tents and growing up in this off grid is
00:08:11.700the people that are living there for non-altruistic reasons are ones that are away from society
00:08:19.520because, you know, they beat somebody for, you know, to death with a tire iron for $20.
00:08:25.840They, we had, it's still tough to talk about, but I covered in the scope of the book, but I dealt
00:08:32.960with murderers. I saved my mother from a serial killer that tracked her later in life as well.
00:08:37.900When he got out of prison, we dealt with human trafficking that directly affected our house as
00:08:41.560a result of, as a result of police corruption. And so much like you read my book and it's going
00:08:47.380to be like people be like man that's crazy go watch the documentary murder mountain it's on
00:08:54.300netflix and that took place 50 miles from where we were at it was about three hours 50 miles because
00:09:00.560it's so so remote and the roads are windy but you'll see just how much i'm talking about people
00:09:06.120disappearing murderers serial killers corruption all this stuff so it was it was wild we got taken
00:09:12.980by the state for a while. And, you know, we were in Northern California. So this would be up front.
00:09:18.160My parents were growing weed for a living. That's, they're trying to find a way of making a life
00:09:22.660outside of society. And so we're up in the, you know, the, the golden triangle as they called it,
00:09:27.620which is kind of what the, the murder mountain documentary is about, but in these remote
00:09:32.100areas that were highly prized for growing marijuana. But once they got us back, they
00:09:37.720decided to stay out of the drug trade. So we moved to Oregon, the Eastern side of the state,
00:09:42.760where there's a lot of deserts and mountains and is more remote and kind of got into mining
00:09:48.060at that point and just fell back right in the same kind of living, just staying clean of,
00:09:54.700you know, the drug trade so that they didn't have a chance of losing us again. And things just kind
00:10:01.400of, I ended up kind of helping, I had three younger sisters and a younger brother, and I was
00:10:08.020kind of the one that took care of all of them when they were out tending the crops or in later
00:10:12.920years mining, or I was helping mining and help them with the kids. And then when I left to go
00:10:19.280to school, which I realized is the only way out, like I'm watching, I'm watching people die around
00:10:25.220me. I'm watching them go to prison. I'm watching them succumb to drugs. And I'm like, I have to
00:10:31.860figure a way out of this. So there's no, a lot of people put themselves in this, uh, you know,
00:10:37.540burning the bridges mentality was kind of forced on me. There's just no place to go back to. And so
00:10:42.320I, uh, I did really well in school as valedictorian as a state level athlete. And I got a,
00:10:47.860uh, a really solid scholarship academic to go to school for a dual engineering degree.
00:10:54.140And I'll just shorten the story here, but I ended up taking custody and raising, uh, my three
00:10:59.380younger sisters because things got worse at home. Once I left and like that stabilizing force that
00:11:06.340I was in the home. You know, I was working and providing money when I was there, you know,
00:11:10.640all through junior high, high school. And when I left things, my stepfather just descended into
00:11:18.040his mental health just deteriorated to a point, my mom disappeared, and I had to,
00:11:24.280I had to take a step up. So I raised my three younger sisters, while I pursued my engineering
00:11:30.220degrees, went on to do my MBA. I was working full time during that, that whole, all of that as well.
00:11:37.480And then, and then all the other stuff happened after that. So as far as the business success
00:11:43.760and other stuff, but that's, that's the early years. So, so yeah, I know a little bit about
00:11:48.720struggle. Like I've had nearly, if you talk about like the nine major, you know, things that
00:11:54.340traumatize people and affect their, their life. I've had eight of them and probably nine. I just
00:12:00.400have some, uh, memory failures in some other areas. And I don't really feel I need to, uh,
00:12:06.880do hypnosis and kind of explore and bring back some of those memories. So, um, yeah,
00:12:11.740yeah. I know a little bit about it. Okay. Wow. That's a hell of a story. That's
00:12:17.860sounds like quite a life that you wouldn't necessarily wish on somebody.
00:12:22.120This episode is brought to you by grass-fed beef organs by Ancestral Supplements.
00:12:30.500Ancestral Supplements makes New Zealand-sourced nose-to-tail organ meats, bone marrow, and
00:12:34.580beef organs in simple, convenient gelatin capsules.
00:12:37.840Traditional peoples, Native Americans, and early ancestral healers believed that eating
00:12:41.800the organs from a healthy animal would strengthen and support the health of the corresponding
00:12:46.840for instance the traditional way for instance the traditional way of treating a person with
00:12:52.760a weak heart was to feed the person the heart of a healthy animal similarly eating the kidneys of a
00:12:58.220healthy animal was believed to support urinary ailments and overall kidney health pancreas was
00:13:03.600fed to people with digestive problems spleen was fed to people with immune and blood deficiencies
00:13:08.080our early ancestors knew this which is why their traditional diets included the frequent and
00:13:13.120nourishing consumption of nose to tail organs. Visit ancestralsupplements.com to see what they
00:13:18.720can do for you. Ancestral Supplements, putting back in what the modern world has left out.
00:13:25.940Enjoy the rest of the episode. How did you, did you manage to avoid resentment for some of the
00:13:31.740things you've been through? Yeah. And you'll, you'll see it when you read, like, I, I still
00:13:38.000hold you know my parents in high regard just I know what they were trying to do and like my mother
00:13:44.880still lives I mean she showed me some amazing things she showed me about perseverance no matter
00:13:52.540what the struggle always moving forward and she chose that really hard life but I I got to
00:13:59.360experience just you know the trials and tribulations that come across from it and trying to keep that
00:14:05.380together, the, the unity of family, like we did everything together. Um, and people don't realize
00:14:11.640like it was us against the world. And then the biggest thing that I learned is just this,
00:14:18.920this authenticity, this it's more than authenticity. It is, it is doing what you're
00:14:26.300going to do, being yourself and creating this own world for yourself around you, despite what
00:14:32.020anybody says and living the way that you want to live. And, and, and that's, that's had a huge
00:14:38.620impact on my life. I mean, that's, that's probably the biggest thing. So those, those, those key
00:14:43.660attributes are really important. And I've rebuilt my relationship with her. We have a, a good
00:14:49.760relationship. I let her rebuild it with my sisters first, because that was the, I was, I wasn't
00:14:56.040resentful so much as disappointed. And she needed because she kind of left them. And so once they
00:15:04.440had kind of repaired that relationship, I'm like, Okay, you know, it's opened doors for me, because
00:15:10.000I wanted to be there to support my sisters first. And so once they, they'd rekindled and rebuilt
00:15:16.040that, I stepped in and we've had, you know, a very great relationship now the last like 20 years or
00:15:22.580so 15 years that it's been. How do you start rebuilding a relationship with a person who
00:15:32.680ends up hurting you by leaving? How did you even start that? Yeah. So like I said, for me,
00:15:42.860it wasn't so much as hurting me directly as much as like I said, it was the impact on
00:15:47.560that I could have seen that I had on my, on my sisters and that that's where my priority was.
00:15:53.820But this, I think this might be a, a larger conversation here. And let me diverge a little
00:16:03.900bit because there's some, I'm going to get back to your question, but I, I, I actually see a pretty
00:16:11.160significant issue today, like in our media or with entrepreneurs or athletes and so on, that
00:16:18.940they're always talking about having the right people around you and cutting out the people that
00:16:24.800are naysayers, negative, the haters and so on. And, and I agree, like people are like,
00:16:33.820they're the fuel that inspires, like that is life. Life is connections. Life is where you choose
00:16:41.120to invest your efforts and pour yourself out into and how you're going to affect the people
00:16:45.540around you. And so you need to have that core people that your resources are going to great
00:16:51.600effort and affecting, but also that are fueling you, that want to be a, that are challenging you
00:16:58.160to be a better version of yourself. They're expecting more of you and you're expecting
00:17:03.320more of them. Like this is, it's so critical to have this. And you'll see this theme in a lot of
00:17:09.400things in my life that I've done around entrepreneurship, building business, athletics,
00:17:14.360so on. But the big mess here is understanding that just because somebody is verbally not
00:17:21.400agreeing with you doesn't mean that they're a naysayer or a hater. And just because there's
00:17:26.220conflict doesn't mean that. Because that person, you've really got to understand those root
00:17:33.900of what they are and why they're doing the things that they're doing because you could have somebody
00:17:39.880around you that's rah rah rah all great no conflict easy life best friend but at the end
00:17:48.100of the day they actually they're looking forward to and enjoy the times that you fail that they
00:17:54.040they don't want you to they don't want you to succeed um and you can have somebody else that
00:18:00.120is calling you to the table appears to be a hater, but they're doing it because
00:18:05.060they, they believe in you and they see that maybe where you're going and they're, they're,
00:18:11.440they're challenging you to, to look and reflect at these things in a manner. Right. And so
00:18:15.820this is, I'll tie this back to that conversation, but this is a really important piece. I think
00:18:21.380people really, really miss because they want to find this environment where it's conflict free
00:18:28.540and easy and you know it's just like the retiring on a beach and drinking my ties but in in my
00:18:34.720workplace is it like that and and and it shouldn't be i i see this so much people want yes people
00:18:40.720around them and you're gonna end up not achieving what you're capable of not being true to yourself
00:18:47.200by having people question you and like my my businesses we have you know some heated staff
00:18:53.880meetings we have but it's all because we believe we're we have the same values we have the same
00:18:59.700envision in north star while part of this team to get there and just because i founded it doesn't
00:19:04.600mean i don't get called to the freaking table uh you know at times and that's that is really
00:19:10.040positive and in so much that this is one of the core reasons i separated from my my first uh my
00:19:17.780first wife as well. We were good friends. It was comfortable, but they didn't want to see me
00:19:25.880succeed in these other ventures who wanted to see some, you know, failure so that I'd stay with just
00:19:32.620the regular job and be a normal person and not have, you know, the challenge that it brings
00:19:38.100and the chaos that it brings into life. Right. And so back to your question that I've been, uh,
00:19:44.520maybe avoiding, I don't know, thinking through it while I'm talking, which is hard. I'm a terrible
00:19:48.640multitasker. It doesn't look like it. But I actually am. It's good focus on one thing at
00:19:57.460a time. You can do a lot of good stuff. But, but the, you know, it's understanding that
00:20:05.720in her own way, my mother wanted the best for us. She wanted this different environment than
00:20:12.580most would have. And it ended up bringing a lot of challenge and strife and trauma
00:20:17.220and mixed emotions. Same with my father. I mean, there's so much like mixed emotions there. But at
00:20:24.600the same time, understanding I am who I am because of this, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Yet at
00:20:31.720the same time, if I think about my children being in that environment, just the thought of that
00:20:37.180brings just deep sadness to me. But I wouldn't change what I have for anything. Because those
00:20:44.400experiences taught me so much. And my mother, you know, she wanted to live that life. And she wanted
00:20:53.140to have, you know, her children understand that they do the same thing that they can, they can
00:20:58.840create and build the world in a manner that they want, they can choose to not be stuffed into
00:21:04.540just this prepackaged, you know, life that is that everything kind of pushes us towards and
00:21:11.460even more so now in society that we have now to just be a consumer, you know, to have things
00:21:17.700fill instead of actually being out there and creating and forging things in the way that you
00:21:22.060want. So, so understanding that helps you build a relationship. And just like, so my mother, I mean,
00:21:31.340it's, it's just, she is so raw and she is so herself. Like you sit down with her and every
00:21:38.520story ends with her pulling a gun on someone or some other tragic thing, which is, she's just so
00:21:44.100so raw and different, but she'll just say things that are, it's on her mind at the time and it
00:21:49.780means nothing. And it, you have to just learn to know that she loves you, wants to see the best
00:21:57.260for you, but the words, you just got to kind of, to walk past that. So once you understand some of
00:22:03.760those deeper things that helps you there, when, when you hear something that is just like, wow,
00:22:09.060that would be horrific if, you know, somebody, if your mother said something like that to you,
00:22:13.820I give some examples, but I don't, I don't think this is the right forum or format for that.
00:22:22.320Okay. So this, this must've been something that you've thought about having kids.
00:22:25.980how do you create adversity the proper amount of adversity for your child so that they grow
00:22:32.460but not so that it's like a ridiculous for them right because you want to keep them safe
00:22:38.240but maybe too much safety means they're going to have a harder time when things actually get hard
00:22:43.320so have you figured out how to balance that oh god i have not figured that out but i can tell
00:22:49.460you my approach. So let's start with a little bit of developmental kinesiology first. So this is
00:22:59.900just straight motor littering patterns, and that'll help frame my conversation. So this first
00:23:06.140piece doesn't directly tie in, but it will from a philosophy standpoint. So every human being
00:23:11.540is born with the patterns of how we move and how we stabilize it. And that process happens over a
00:23:18.600nine month period of time. So every week and every month, the exact same things will start
00:23:23.780happening from moving to a rolling pattern to reaching and stabilizing with certain parts of
00:23:28.500your hand. And then you start advancing to, you know, being able to get towards a standing and
00:23:34.900then walking position. And everybody's in and it's important that we we continually challenge
00:23:41.480and work just like working out, right? The more you do it, the better we get, the more these
00:23:45.760patterns are able to develop appropriately. What people like to do when their baby's getting that
00:23:52.880and it's like, oh, my baby's walking at eight months or something. And they start holding
00:23:56.640their hands and showing people, look, my cute little daughter's walking, I'm going to help.
00:24:01.680And here's a walker and you're walking me around. And it actually can create damage because you1.00
00:24:07.660teach to stabilize off of this distal end. It starts elevating a rib cage. It'll start
00:24:11.960changing some breathing patterns and other stuff that happen. And so it's actually bad practice to
00:24:17.540do that consistently and get your baby walking sooner than it should. In fact,
00:24:22.880you should stick your foot out and swipe it and knock your baby down.
00:24:29.040So I'm being a little bit, you know, cheeky with this, but they actually need to practice and
00:24:36.780continue to get that and have the challenge of it and fail and keep coming back, right?
00:24:41.960And that's how those patterns are taught is not by just like, Oh, yeah, I'm a success the first time and now I'm walking and I may need the help and support to get there. That actually doesn't teach the, you know, our, our body or nervous system, have the practice to be successful.
00:24:58.540So in my opinion, one of the best things that you can do as a parent is let your child fail.
00:25:11.140Think back on your life and some of your failures end up being the catalyst for one significant amount of confidence.
00:25:19.660And that may not make sense at first, but like once you fail at something or don't, maybe it's not failure, but don't get what you hope to.
00:25:27.280No, that's just failure. And you come back around, you study more, you work harder, you train longer, you, you practice more you and then you come back around and you and you pull it off and you do it like that is that is an integral part of life because things are not going to come your way the first time.
00:25:48.200And so it's learning the ability to do that, the ability to not take the initial failure and knowing that you have the ability to come around and get it no matter what, that is huge.
00:26:02.100but the confidence that it instills. And I didn't start thinking about this until I was kind of
00:26:07.440challenged more recently in some recent years about like, I'm a bit cocky. I'm confident. I
00:26:13.380can believe I can do these crazy over the top things if I just choose to do it. It's just a
00:26:19.320matter of I haven't chosen to do that yet, but I can do it. It's like, where does that come from?
00:26:24.480And I'm like, it comes from layering these, these overcoming one on top of the other.
00:26:32.160So it's just like training, you go into the gym, and you do some curls, and your arm gets
00:31:46.900That is your signal right now that that means that's an opportunity for me. That is another moment that I can take advantage of and practice, practice living in that uncomfortable space, practice being afraid, practice overcoming this and knowing because there's going to be something more difficult in the future than than that, you know, that conversation or that that choice.
00:32:12.660Right. And so that is your chance to, to take that on. And I'm not saying every one of those
00:32:18.540is going to be successful, but the practice of doing this certainly is because that's going to
00:32:23.620build up your resilience to take on those things. And guess what? The big things in life that really
00:32:30.040shake and change you up aren't things that you anticipate some random Thursday afternoon, wham,
00:32:36.240you've had some of them happen to you this year. Right. And it's just like, you didn't see that
00:32:40.040that coming and, uh, being able to not freeze it up and lock up and know that, fuck, that's hard.
00:32:47.740I got this though. I can figure out a way. I don't know how I'm going to do this right now,
00:32:52.020but I know I can overcome it. Right. Okay. That was, that was fantastic. Uh, I want to
00:33:00.620talk a little bit about your experience with your body and overcoming things. So, um, I think one
00:33:08.740of the areas I haven't, and there's reasons for everything, but one of the reasons, one of the
00:33:13.940things that I need to work more on is my like muscular strength and the stress resiliency that
00:33:20.960potentially comes with being physically stronger. So could you maybe talk about your experience
00:33:26.700about like what being strong has potentially done for your stress tolerance? Yeah. Yeah. So
00:33:36.200So it has a much bigger impact than people think. So I'm going to just start with this question of for you. What do you think is the number one health care cost? I don't have the studies worldwide, but health care costs in America. So it could be heart disease, diabetes, cancer, something else. Just a quick shot.
00:34:05.020Okay. Yeah, low back pain. And most all of low back pain can be dealt with by having more resilience, people don't realize that the working out doing it appropriately, shouldn't cause pain. In fact, it will make you more resilient to being able to be in different positions and be under load and do these things.
00:34:28.940though that that one, you know, getting out of your car that one day and twisting or twisting
00:34:34.020over to reaching down and picking up your child. And all of a sudden, it's like, damn, that threw
00:34:38.040my back out. Yep. It wasn't that thing. Right? Yeah. Well, most everybody has at some point in
00:34:44.720their life. And I'll tell you about something. I had it happen. And I had to learn to walk again.
00:34:50.520Oh, I couldn't move for weeks, not even my head. What happened? I had to I had to walk her. And I
00:34:58.800had to learn to walk, walk again. Um, well, I was challenging myself on the resilience side
00:35:05.580too much. So this is like the burning the candle on both ends too much. Right. So we've got to
00:35:09.720understand that anything, even the past conversations I had, you have to temper with
00:35:14.400that's pouring your cup out. It's like, you know, you're taking on challenge. You're choosing to,
00:35:21.500to dive into these things. You've got to refill it. Right. So, um, and sometimes,
00:35:27.140so if you push it too far and don't have that, like, obviously I was saying, you know, if you
00:35:30.660rest and recover constantly or too long, the process of atrophy starts. So we don't want to
00:35:36.600be, but you have to be there, you know, intermittently as we're, as we're progressing,
00:35:41.220as we're taking things off. So a little vacation, a little meditation, a little yoga or whatever it
00:35:46.680is that, that, you know, reinvigorates you as good living that for life is that. So, um, anyway,
00:35:53.900i was pushing my limits trying to do something uh over the top that's a long time ago uh chasing
00:36:00.740some records so i didn't mention in my life story yet i'd done a lot of lifting uh so i this was
00:36:07.440ranked number one in the world for like eight years straight uh casual i uh set all-time uh
00:36:13.820records and then later i did uh some like feats of street strunk feats of strength things i mentioned
00:36:19.400a couple of those, but, um, uh, somewhere in there, uh, I pushed it too far and that's what
00:36:25.540happened, but I came back around. I had the confidence to come back around and demonstrate
00:36:29.700that I could do something that actually was the two most demanding things on being able to
00:36:37.420stabilize and maintain spinal position under load to at a, at a level that no one's ever done before
00:36:45.340with no back pain. So when we talk about defining yourself, a lot of people will come to this thing
00:36:50.760going, I'm the person with a bad back or that's going to be like this forever. So let's get back
00:36:54.860to developing. Let's get back to the conversation about what is it to develop resilience, but
00:36:59.340understanding fundamentally, it is going to allow you to withstand stuff, to be able to live a
00:37:06.020better quality of life, to have, you know, all the little things in life, not cause an injury,
00:37:11.960right to be able to do something and improving that physical capacity as a whole it's also going
00:37:18.040to have an impact you you need to be chasing these things body mind and soul if you're not
00:37:24.640the they're all related right so like the strength athlete or you know meathead guru that's only on
00:37:31.200this strength aspect they're going to have big gaps right because they're not attacking you know
00:37:37.360the other two components. And same thing, if you're focused on self-improvement on those other
00:37:42.200two, but not addressing this, you're going to, I mean, just the physical nature of it is proven
00:37:46.400over and over again to have a huge impact on mental health. So, so there it's a matter of
00:37:54.620being rounded and being and pushing that. And we, we could look at it back from a philosophical or
00:38:00.340yeah well uh great thinkers of the past but uh um this was a really common uh theme that you know
00:38:07.840there's a great uh quote from socrates although there's a question about how much of a an athlete
00:38:11.780he was uh hippocrates the you know founder of modern medicine uh has an incredible quote about
00:38:18.480like basically like uh lifting and moving is going to fundamentally take care of nearly all of your
00:38:25.760physical ailments right so it's a matter of balancing that with rest god i wish i had that
00:38:30.720quote in front of me um i uh dang it i'm not gonna look it up because that'll interfere
00:38:36.440it's important to have that strong mind and strong back it's important for not just being able to not
00:38:45.760have back pain right but to improve your your immune resistance your ability to adapt it all
00:38:53.600of it actually your body when it senses stressed it is it's all coming from the same bucket so this
00:39:00.280is something like if you're lifting you have to also understand this the other stresses in life
00:39:04.920are going to put the same kind of drain on you so if you have major stresses if you're a type
00:39:10.600a personality you know pushing hard and business world you you can't just walk into the gym and
00:39:15.240hammer everything that you got all the time as well so it's understanding that but as we're
00:39:19.560developing the capacity over time, it's going to have an effect on all those areas of your life as
00:39:24.480well. So important, important aspect. And so as we're thinking about this thing, we want to think
00:39:31.320about how do we build that? Because a big, a big problem is people jump into, well, that's great.
00:39:40.780And then they go all in. Oh, running's great. I'm going to go run five miles a day. Oh,
00:39:44.940I'm going to start training five, six days a week and, and dieting and, and, and, and adding all this
00:39:52.700stuff on. And what we want to do is actually, there's a reason for this. So I'm not just going
00:39:56.540to say it, but we want to do it with the, what's called the minimal effective dose. We want to do
00:40:02.380the minimal amount of work that's going to allow change because it's all about layering those
00:40:07.700capacities. But that means also over time to achieve more results, you have to add more.
00:40:12.740So if you throw everything at once at front, then you've got nowhere else to go.
00:40:18.880We see this like in the dieting world, people want to exercise, take their diet way down,
00:40:24.000do, you know, maybe even add some drugs in or, you know, some stimulants or whatever
00:40:28.260it is, and they put everything in there.
00:40:29.740And then it's like, they made great progress for like eight weeks, and then it stalls.
00:40:40.160But the other side is also the injury prevention side. And this is well studied. So what we have is basically what is your average workload over a period of time? So let's say three to six months time. The word for that is actually chronic, but it sounds terrible. But we'll just use average for this discussion.
00:41:05.820Okay. So your average workload, and then you have your short period, like in a week, and that's called the cute. And so over time, you want to increase that that's actually what's going to provide the gains, but not too much. Because again, you have nowhere else to reach. But also for the reason that if you take the way you do it is you obviously spike a short term, and that's going to start bringing your average up.
00:41:25.500But if you bring more than a 10% to 15% increase in volume over your average, that's going to instigate about 80% of the injuries that we see.
00:41:37.400So in athletic populations, 80% is a result of that.
00:41:41.880Not right then at the moment, but like five or six weeks later, you'll see, oh, man, I've got this nagging elbow, this nagging wrist.
00:41:47.960And then that starts affecting your long-term adherence and discipline because now you're off plan, you're reducing, you're coming around.
00:41:54.620uh and you're not able to to step that up and then the other so so so you want to that that's
00:42:01.680why we can't just go all in because it's going to we don't have the capacity to handle that
00:42:06.980we have to build that um and so that's the the important lesson there is you've got to stare that
00:42:13.520up you've got to stare that up but slowly within that those tolerance and then understand like
00:42:18.340because here's a big problem people have it's like oh i was doing it great and then i went on
00:42:22.800vacation. And then you come back and you're like, well, I missed a week or two. What are you going
00:42:27.920to do? Going to make up for lost time and hit it harder. Well, that's the exact opposite because
00:42:33.640you've actually just moved your average down and your ability to tolerate that load coming back
00:42:39.960again, even your normal is actually reduced. So it's, it may not be the message that people want
00:42:46.580to hear but we've got to ease into this stuff because but the beautiful thing is it just builds
00:42:53.720over time if you do that that is you're going to build that capacity over time to handle this stuff
00:43:00.500and that's so these are some fundamental exercise science stuff this kind of fits into something
00:43:05.800called periodization but those are really important concepts to understand because it
00:43:12.180comes with everything. Let's say, um, minimalist footwear. There was, uh, there was a big company
00:43:17.780about 10, a little over 10 years ago that came out with a finger shoes. And, uh, there was a
00:43:23.860documentary born, born to run and all the runners great mental, their mentality is always more is
00:43:29.100better. Right. And it's like, Oh, that's better. Let's go do it. Start running 20, 20, uh, 20 miles
00:43:34.580a day with those shoes, but they don't have strength in their foot yet because they haven't
00:43:40.520built that capacity. Their foot's been all mummified. Just like if you walked in every
00:43:44.800morning, if you woke up in the day and wrapped your, put your weightlifting belt on and wrapped
00:43:49.380your elbows and wrapped your knees, that would actually decrease your strength. Right. And it
00:43:56.780wouldn't make you healthier and stronger. And it would cause other things to happen in your body,
00:44:01.340which I'm getting into a whole minimalist footwear discussion, but they don't, their foot's not0.72
00:44:05.180strong. They haven't been using it. And so they go out and do that. And in fact, they actually
00:44:09.700need to wear those type of shoes or do that type of work about 10% of the time to start with for
00:44:14.080the first month and then increase it and then increase it because they're actually having to
00:44:18.520increase the strength of the foot that the shoes aren't the answer having a stronger functional
00:44:25.940foot is and their shoes were working against them in that fashion and this is this is a really cool
00:44:32.320story so uh related to it so I'm on a side topic but it is very related so um and this is a
00:44:39.400documented story by one of the the original people involved with with nike uh which has
00:44:44.660why all running shoes today are built with an elevated uh heel and arch supports uh built into
00:44:52.160them because they started pushing this as in the 70s getting running was not that commonplace within
00:44:59.960you know the normal everyday population and there was wrote a book and stuff was coming in that was
00:45:04.580starting to change that was starting to come about and they're making their running shoes
00:45:08.420and heel shoes even you know men's shoes was was common that's and it still is today uh and it's
00:45:16.500actually a result of far back because the only reason we have heels is for stirrups for riding
00:45:21.380horses so that's where the whole elevated heel came from but then it rolled into fashion right
00:45:26.900and then they're starting to promote running and they're starting to see injuries well the reason
00:45:32.320they're seeing injuries is people didn't have the capacity within their calf muscles they've been
00:45:37.600sitting in a shortened uh in a shortened position from all the healed shoes not the strength from
00:45:43.600using the foot and all this sort of stuff and so the question is what do we do and uh i think he
00:45:50.100was a podiatrist uh and he now says it's the the worst uh the worst decision he uh he definitely
00:45:57.020worst decision he made and he regrets doing it but they suggested let's just go ahead and put
00:46:03.420an elevated heel in the running shoes so that people don't have those injuries because they're
00:46:09.960going to instead of providing the education right and now that's what we have around the world and
00:46:16.500then now with the elevated heel it puts the pressure on the toe we've got the inward toe
00:46:20.200and we basically lose control and stability of the knee and hip complex and so then you have
00:46:25.240to passively support it by building in an arch support because the system to stabilize that
00:46:29.760is shut off you can test this anyone listening to this get down in a squat position barefoot okay
00:46:36.220and pick your big toe up and raise and pull it in just like it was in a shoe and you're healed
00:46:41.900and then move your knee around a little bit and you'll see that it just falls inward and you lack
00:46:45.880control now grab your big toe pull it wider than it normally would be because by the way it's
00:46:50.840deformed from your shoes so pull it out and press it down and then push that into the ground and now
00:46:55.480do the same test and you'll see a huge difference so that's interesting isn't it crazy yeah um and
00:47:04.780so because of you know one thing then you start having to build all these other band-aids on i
00:47:09.560mean it's just straight i mean meta analysis of all the research uh done on orthotics which is an
00:47:17.140entire industry right and also a big piece of like shoe design as well right our athletic science
00:47:22.560issue um shows that there is no long-term benefit whatsoever there's relief in pain for a six to
00:47:30.860eight week period of time just like if my elbow hurt and i wrapped it right in the example i was
00:47:34.860talking about earlier it's going to provide some relief but if i wake up every day and do that all
00:47:38.500day long till night long term it's actually going to cause more problems and cause problems in other
00:47:44.440areas of my body as i start to compensate so there's no scientific evidence well actually
00:47:49.880the scientific evidence is that it doesn't do anything beneficial and you know i can i can work
00:47:54.980with people and help you start strengthening your foot and just using it you'll see that
00:47:58.660back and hip pain uh and knee pain those sorts of things just start dissipating but it's it's
00:48:04.980not the shoe it's the the ability to strengthen manage the the foot complex well i got on a big
00:48:10.680tangent but it's it's strength i like so it this is and this is the impact of strength this is what
00:48:16.720it has. And this is another feeder right into like the number one healthcare cost America back
00:48:23.100pain. So so anyway, from a from a while we're on the subject, I would just want to cover a couple
00:48:30.200things. So the ability to control and manage spinal mechanics is the number one global impact
00:48:38.000on the whole body. Okay. And that is accomplished through the use of the diaphragm in relation to
00:48:47.080the pelvic floor. This sounds like a lot of, you know, complexity, but it's, it's basically getting
00:48:52.180your, your rib cage in alignment with the pelvis. And then we use the diaphragm and it descends
00:48:58.540downward, but basically imagine inflating your stomach all 360 degrees around just a little bit
00:49:04.760the pressure. It depends on the movement, but that will create the stabilization. It actually
00:49:09.600creates pressure against all the organs and the organs around the spine, and then causes a
00:49:14.280co-contraction. You don't need to know all this stuff because it'll happen automatically
00:49:18.220of all the outer sheath of muscles. So obviously the abdominals, the rectus, the obliques,
00:49:25.200the thoracolumbar musculature, as well as the pelvic floor all come in, but the two have to be
00:49:30.180like this now a lot of us walk around with elevated you know men just kind of show off0.79
00:49:35.540their chest women maybe show off their chest uh whatever the reason shoes actually uh kick the
00:49:41.100pelvis forward which causes the same so um and uh so the elevated shoe even in running or walking1.00
00:49:46.980causes an overstride which kicks the pelvis forward as well it all feeds in as well as stress
00:49:53.320and technology. So just like being on technology devices, uh, and high stress situations all cause
00:50:00.760a change in breathing patterns. And so the breathing patterns shift into the chest instead
00:50:05.840of, um, uh, what's called diaphragmatic breathing, but you would feel it in your belly air still
00:50:11.320coming in your chest. Cause this is where your lungs are, but that sensation, um, will is what
00:50:18.200the diaphragm, but it starts shifting those, those patterns into an upward motion. So your,
00:50:21.920your shoulders and traps will kind of elevate if you put your hands up here your collarbone when
00:50:25.980you're breathing if it'll move up and down if that's the case that's not they shouldn't have
00:50:31.080an elevation as it's going it should actually be outward kind of like a wave from the bottom
00:50:36.560up even into the low rib cage will expand but not push forward so we don't want to elevate our
00:50:43.240our chest anyway um that's important to understand because if the breathing patterns break down
00:50:48.080That's one function of the diaphragm. So the diaphragm covers, um, uh, respiration stabilization
00:50:54.280in the sphincter, but the, it'll start messing with the stabilization function. And so then now
00:51:00.160we start getting a lot of stuff going on. And so, um, if we don't have stability, um, our body
00:51:06.940starts compensating, uh, by tightening. If, if, if, if it senses that there's instability or
00:51:13.920weakness so again this could be the foot with our packaged up shoe it'll start tightening the
00:51:19.160muscles around a joint to protect it and so the best way a great way to explain this is a car
00:51:25.380analogy so um most modern cars they have a traction control little button in there right
00:51:34.020and a lot of people think that when the traction control is on if i'm going around a corner and
00:51:38.200it's wet or icy it's going to take the power from the wheels that are slipping and put it to the
00:51:42.860wheels that are gripping, but it doesn't do that. It wants to do the same thing your neurological
00:51:47.580system and your body does, which is if it senses that you're in danger because we lack stability
00:51:53.900or strength, it wants to save you so that you don't go sliding off the road and burn a fiery
00:52:00.240death, for example, in the car example. So how it does this, it goes, ah, we don't have stability.
00:52:06.340we're going to reduce the we're going to reduce the uh the the um sorry too much talking for me0.78
00:52:15.420today so um uh it's going to uh retard the timing on the on the engine it's going to reduce the0.90
00:52:22.900power out of the vehicle it's going to reduce the shift patterns and d it's going to detune the0.86
00:52:27.880system so that as we do that now the tires don't slip and we don't burn that fiery death by flying
00:52:34.700off the road. Well, our body does the same thing. So you think about that, even from a training
00:52:39.580perspective, like that means like, it's not just a conversation of, of health and, you know you
00:52:46.220know, and far as injury prevention, but actually just being able to realize your potential. So if
00:52:52.120we've got our stabilization mechanisms on, we can do just like a performance race car that doesn't
00:52:57.540have attraction control. It's like put on a good, good pair of tires that are connected to the
00:53:02.380ground, our feet, put the foot, you know, you know, put our foot to the, uh, to the, to the
00:53:07.640floor on the gas pedal and, you know, take it. So that is, uh, our body does the same thing.
00:53:13.760So like people that, you know, have tight hips from squatting, well, they don't have tight hips
00:53:18.660from squatting. They have tight hips from squatting like shit. So if you're not moving well
00:53:24.700and you're, you are going to have this stuff happen. And so, so it's just an important
00:53:31.100piece to understand like how important these mechanisms are so if i don't control so the
00:53:37.160spine and the spinal mechanics is number one largest global impact the foot is number two
00:53:41.560as the secondary largest so so these have a huge impact for our whole body and being able to we
00:53:49.160need to be able to strengthen and use those resources and learn how to manage and control
00:53:53.140them it's that simple that was okay that long dissertation that we may not need to go into but
00:53:59.180I'm sorry. No, no, no. I, I actually, I actually have a few questions. So I have two, um, I I've
00:54:05.320done some research. I mean, I have like an ankle replacement, which is really screwed up one of my
00:54:10.000legs. So I know about foot problems, but also since having a kid, I've seen these, you know,
00:54:16.440seen these shoes where it's like, this is what a human foot is supposed to look like. And it looks
00:54:20.240kind of like a hand. And then you see what a human foot from wearing shoes looks like. And I was like,
00:54:25.020oh my God, I don't want to do that to Scarlett. Like my little kids, like make her shoot feet0.99
00:54:29.860are all screwed up. So, but she doesn't like, she's a super girly girl. She's only wears pink.
00:54:35.720She doesn't like the shoes that aren't going to destroy her feet. So she's been wearing flip
00:54:41.040flops. So how do you feel about flip flops versus the ones that constrict your foot?
00:54:49.080So there's a lot of people that will tell you that flip flops are bad. They are far superior
00:54:54.400to putting the foot in a shoe because the shoe is physically going to deform it the only negative
00:55:00.300is a slight like having to pick it up so if you can get something that maybe has a strap or
00:55:04.680something or just like uh catches on the front of the foot too in a fact that they don't have to
00:55:09.440really hold it on with any toe work is oh okay okay and then also the great thing about flip
00:55:13.720flops is they kick off really easy uh because that's your time like being able to feel and
00:55:18.660move the ground uh you know run around in the backyard on the grass and have some you know be
00:55:22.880able to move the foot um play i mean that is and so you don't have to i'm not this hardcore like
00:55:29.940oh you've got to live a barefoot lifestyle like you know if i go out to dinner my wife may dress
00:55:34.980up and put on a pair of heels like yeah so um but you still need it's just like spend some time
00:55:41.280using them and strengthening them and then in the in the shoe they'll they'll work better but yeah
00:55:46.260it's a big problem with the minimalist uh movement this is going to sound really bad uh the way i
00:55:52.340frame it and hopefully nobody takes this personally but like it they're all designed for hippies and
00:55:57.520runners and i'll tell you if i start wearing those like those finger shoes that i i mentioned
00:56:03.340if i go home and my wife sees me in those like her sex drive her interest in me is like this
00:56:10.060and we're i'm like i it's i i just stayed in reality uh and i you know that's uh if you want
00:56:18.260to have if you want to enjoy some bedroom time with your partner a lot of those are just not
00:56:23.780good choices right so so this is a reality like fashion is important and and it's gonna it's a
00:56:29.860reality maybe it's not important but it is a reality that we live in and and so um that has
00:56:36.080been an important piece that i'm trying to address again you know i live in portland yeah i've got a
00:56:41.720lot of hippies and runners as friends i'm just like joking about it not joking about the sex
00:56:45.860thing though that's real but with the toe shoes it's definitely real it's definitely real yeah
00:56:51.180um but all the minimalist companies are focused on the same target market and so they're not
00:56:56.700providing any alternatives for the rest of the world yeah right and so that's uh that's all i'm
00:57:02.820trying to do with my company barefoot that's b-e-a-r um like a kid running around in the
00:57:09.040mountains uh running from bears barefoot like i was you know anyway um so uh but it's to to create
00:57:17.240something that it that looks better that you could wear like i'll wear mine with a with a suit you
00:57:22.760know maybe it wouldn't work for a lot of people in some suit environments but you get my friend
00:57:26.960like it works great in a lot of environments and we're coming out with a boot next and the boot is
00:57:31.660designed for people that go hunting that have a blue collar job where they've got to wear a work
00:57:37.880boot because these people boots are absolutely horrible for feet the stiffness and the like the
00:57:45.020ability of how they control the foot and once you start like doing and your foot starts working
00:57:50.700right boots will just make you ache and hurt nearly immediately and i get comments like what
00:57:57.260do i do when i go to work because there's no great alternatives so this fall we're coming out with
00:58:02.100one. It's actually being tested by an elite, uh, a green beret team, uh, right now. So, uh, getting
00:58:09.680it put thoroughly through its paces, but it's, you know, it's, um, God, I hate the word alpha,
00:58:14.240but it's like, you know, it's that for that type of care person, uh, that is living in this
00:58:19.520environment that is, will never put on a, on a shoe that is targeted towards the other environment.
00:58:25.200Right. So anyway, it's just helping, you know, helping a different group that doesn't have an
00:58:33.160alternative right now. And I don't have a, I don't have any kids shoes yet. So, um, and yeah,
00:58:38.940a lot of them are the, the girly girls, like my daughter, same thing. She, you know, she's only
00:58:45.480three years old, but she's gotta have, you know, uh, but the alternative is just making sure that1.00
00:58:51.340they have time to play without shoes. It doesn't have to be all the time. And that's the issue0.94
00:58:59.540because it's just like over time, people think it's like, oh, you're just not buying the shoes
00:59:04.700that fit. But over your life, you'll see that your foot will change. So I spent about six years
00:59:11.480barefoot and the shape of my foot and its functionality changed dramatically. And my
00:59:17.820thousand pound squat for reps my thousand pound deadlift for reps those were done shoeless even
00:59:23.780though i have the company because like i'm not trying to sell you a shoe like this is like this
00:59:28.440is something i believe in if you can go train that way just go train that way right uh but i did that
00:59:36.080because it's a performance enhancer like i'm able to perform better i have a greater connection
00:59:40.900and proprioception to the ground right and so uh all the stuff that i design is kind of built around
00:59:46.600these concepts like kabuki strength um our products were used by 29 of the 30 major league
00:59:54.000baseball teams were used by 90 of all professional sports in north america were used by any major
01:00:01.880college that you could think of 600 plus more were used by if you yeah so if you have a sports
01:00:09.240star they're using our stuff lebron's got our stuff at his house at his trainer's gym at the
01:00:13.820lakers as well as the rest of the starting line if you watch movies and you watch any action movies
01:00:18.600the the stars and the stuntmen are probably using our stuff uh marvel studios filming right now
01:00:24.660they're all they've got our stuff out back in a trailer that they're training in black adam same
01:00:29.120thing the rock's got our bars in every location that he trains at so he's got eight of them in
01:00:36.000all these different locations because this is what our products do what they do is allow us to get
01:00:42.260our joints in the right position and they accommodate for variability in a lifter or
01:00:46.800human. They accommodate for variability in lever links, mobility restrictions, and training needs
01:00:53.440like based on, you know, your ankle, you're going to move a little different than other people.
01:01:00.300He's six, five. He's not going to be able to do the things that that's the reason he uses our
01:01:04.900stuff. He cannot do a squat with any, without pain with any other things than our bars. So
01:01:10.360So if you watch any of his ads, videos, anything where he's doing squats, lunges, anything like
01:01:15.940that, that's our bar in his back because it actually accommodates and it moves.
01:01:20.200It allows us to manipulate the spinal position, which is crazy.
01:01:24.420It's the only bar in the world that we can actually, that you can actually do that with.
01:01:27.680So, so our bars that do that, they, they allow for the rapidly accommodating for those needs
01:01:33.320as well as, as, as they're doing that, we're getting the joints in what we call the right
01:01:39.920centration so that's a fancy term it just means that we have the right proper length tension
01:01:44.800relationship of the muscles around the joint so that the stabilizers are working as stabilizers
01:01:50.540and the prime movers are working as prime movers because when that breakdown starts happening
01:01:54.720that's when you start getting in that's like breakdown and breathing patterns and all the
01:01:59.140other stuff right and um so it's you know if your if your arm's fully stretched it's not as strong
01:02:06.480as when it's in its optimal working range versus when it's all the way in again it's it's it's
01:02:11.060weaker again so those extents so when you're arched way up or in these weird funky positions
01:02:16.800we've actually got muscles in a short position with muscles in a long position and so we allow
01:02:23.220that proper centration and then the stacking of joints and all of a sudden you can you can have
01:02:27.620somebody that couldn't even do like let's say a bench press without pain this is we got time for
01:02:34.660a short little story. Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, maybe not funny. So it's funny in the fact
01:02:39.900that, so every major league baseball, uh, coach, nearly every, let's say 80%, probably 60, 80%,
01:02:46.840a head strength coach has shoulder problems and they can't bench press because they've had a
01:02:52.100surgery or pain or whatever. So it's just, you know, that shoulder demands in that sport are
01:02:57.480pretty heavy and it's just, just the way it is. So, um, I went to spring training with one of
01:03:02.060our bars that's a pressing bar because they're all in Arizona they're all right by each other so I
01:03:06.300can see about three or four teams a day we're friends with all of them provide you know and I
01:03:11.480go in with this bar and they're like ah no no I can't you know I you know I haven't been able to
01:03:15.920bench press for like five years it's I can't even take a bar to my chest it hurts I'm like I'll try
01:03:20.260this take it down and it's our bars curved is actually three inches greater range of motion
01:03:27.120than others, but it's built to be able to just have these things happen. And so I did this over
01:03:32.720the course of two days and I visited five different teams. And this happened on five occasions
01:03:37.660with five different coaches, same story, same thing happened. And, uh, they ended up working
01:03:45.760up to two plates. So 225 pounds and doing reps with it for their first time pressing in years
01:03:53.780and their staff i mean because they all know it they're standing there just jaws hanging down
01:03:58.340they're like gets up how bad that hurt it didn't hurt at all no pain uh just from these minor
01:04:06.760because you think about the attraction control analogy there's a reason i went through that
01:04:09.800whole thing like so much is neurological and if we're not if we're stuffing everybody
01:04:14.680you know round pegs through square holes and trying to make it happen like it doesn't work
01:04:20.260But if we, if we can work on getting these things in the right position, the right things happening, the neurological changes happen. And then all of a sudden we're allowed to move and now we can move and now we can adapt and now we can build resilience and now we can get out of this.
01:04:35.860And that's the, that's the beautiful thing is to be able to provide people the opportunity to get out of pain and live a better quality of life through developing strength. It's not about being like me and squatting a thousand pounds. Like that's not what it's about. It's about this.
01:04:56.480It's about giving that person that's been in debilitating back pain, you know, at least
01:05:02.220on life again, and allow them to get in the gym and train and do so pain-free that changes