The National Telegraph - Wyatt Claypool - David Eby, DRIPA, UNDRIP & the End of BC Property Rights

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, Wyatt Claypool here. I got a great show for you all today because we're going to have a very wide-ranging discussion on a lot of the land issues that are going on in British Columbia today, and I have two great guests who are very qualified to speak to this issue.

00:00:16.700 First up, I have one BC leader and Vancouver Quilchina MLA, Dallas Brody, and I also have Queens University Law Professor, as well as the Executive Director of Rights Watch, Bruce Hardy here. Thank you both for joining me here today.

00:00:34.640 Thanks, Wyatt. Great to be with you. It's actually Rights Probe, but close enough.

00:00:38.300 I mess things up a lot, but now we're plugging it again, but properly, Executive Director of Rights Probe.

00:00:46.220 So in British Columbia, just over a year ago, it felt just unfathomable that we would actually even be talking about adjustments to DRIPA, but after a recent case, I think it's Guxalan or whatever, I can never pronounce the actual band's name,

00:01:05.640 but it was the specific case in front of the Supreme Court having to do with mining rights, or I think it was the Superior Court,

00:01:13.760 that mining companies will have to go through and actually do full consultations, whatever that means, with First Nations bands if they actually even want to be able to actually not only stake a claim, but actually start developing.

00:01:28.500 And that is what has caused the BC government and Premier David Eby to actually come out and say that they are willing to pursue changes to DRIPA.

00:01:38.320 I'm not sure how closely both of you have been able to follow the details, but how likely are we to actually see any substantial change to the property rights, to seeing property rights strengthened?

00:01:50.700 Maybe I'll start with Bruce here.

00:01:52.120 Sure, yes, so this court case that you're alluding to brought the issue into the public sphere more than it has in the past, but this court case is only the latest thing to come up.

00:02:11.400 In other words, things have been happening behind the scene for a long time on the basis of DRIPA.

00:02:16.740 DRIPA has been a problem for a long time.

00:02:19.000 The BC government has been acting on its mandate under DRIPA for a long time, and it's only because the court case came by and said,

00:02:26.260 oh, by the way, DRIPA means what it says, that everybody now is in all a flutter.

00:02:31.780 However, yes, DRIPA needs to be, well, amended is not enough, but DRIPA needs to be repealed, and you can tell that the BC government, I think, is talking out both sides of its mouth on this because they are saying that they're going to, you know, amend it, adjust it,

00:02:50.780 so that the court has to go back to what the NDP thinks it's supposed to mean, but DRIPA needs to be repealed.

00:03:01.240 DRIPA needs to be repealed.

00:03:02.340 What DRIPA does is require the BC government to make the laws of BC consistent with the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People.

00:03:14.220 And for anybody who's read UNDRIP, you will know that it's an extraordinary document that provides all different kinds of very, you know, very broad-ranging rights and entitlements for Aboriginal people that are far beyond what is even called for under the Canadian Constitution.

00:03:33.580 And so, if the BC government was genuine about its alarm about this court decision, it would undertake to repeal the whole statute, not amend it, not adjust it, repeal it.

00:03:47.040 But that's not, as I understand it, on the table right now.

00:03:51.540 And Dallas, is there any world, because, of course, you're going to be going back into the legislature this February,

00:03:57.400 is there any world where you would be okay with simply amending DRIPA,

00:04:03.140 and would that maybe even be possible to actually amend it into something even acceptable?

00:04:09.200 No way.

00:04:10.400 The whole thing has to go 100%.

00:04:12.580 It needs to be thrown out.

00:04:14.440 This document has no business being in our province.

00:04:17.240 It's turned our province upside down.

00:04:19.980 And Bruce is absolutely right.

00:04:22.840 Premier Eby and his Attorney General are being completely disingenuous

00:04:26.320 when they say that they're shocked by this court ruling.

00:04:29.700 This is not a shock at all.

00:04:31.560 The court's just saying it out loud, what was already required.

00:04:34.360 They even went to the step of changing the Interpretation Act of BC

00:04:37.960 to say that all courts had to interpret all laws through the lens of DRIPA.

00:04:45.120 And so, this isn't a surprise to them at all.

00:04:48.480 This is precisely what they wanted.

00:04:50.600 We are the only jurisdiction in the world, I think, aside from Bolivia,

00:04:53.560 that has adopted an act like this.

00:04:55.600 No other province in Canada has done this.

00:04:57.860 It's so extreme.

00:04:59.360 And the shocking part was that this was approved by every member of the legislature

00:05:03.480 back in 2019.

00:05:06.100 Not one MLA voted against this.

00:05:10.140 The recklessness of this, and the cowardice,

00:05:13.340 and the desire for all those politicians to simply want to be seen as a nice person,

00:05:17.760 it was an outrageous decision to do.

00:05:21.700 And I cannot believe that David Eby is pretending that he didn't know that this was what was going to happen.

00:05:28.320 David Eby is on TV, even back protesting the Olympics,

00:05:31.820 in front of a sign that says, land back, stolen land.

00:05:35.400 He deeply and ideologically believes that, and he said this out loud, that colonialism was a mistake,

00:05:43.180 and we need to correct history, and we need to return all land, not just some land, all land.

00:05:49.040 And this focus on private property is also scaring me because there's only a small portion of British Columbia's land

00:05:56.820 that is actually private property and owned fee simple.

00:05:59.300 That is a big problem, too.

00:06:00.660 But 95% approximately of the land in British Columbia is owned by the Crown.

00:06:05.460 And that's actually the big prize that they're going after.

00:06:09.660 And there are major groups out of the United States, Tides Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation,

00:06:14.240 and all of these who have been pushing this agenda to return all land.

00:06:18.940 And as Bruce said, UNDRIP is the mother beast of all of this.

00:06:23.140 It's only about 35 pages.

00:06:25.860 I strongly recommend, if you have time, just sit down with a cup of coffee and read it.

00:06:29.880 It is a one-way document that says everything goes to the Indigenous people,

00:06:34.920 and there's zero expression of any responsibility or accountability or anything on behalf of these groups.

00:06:40.200 They get it all.

00:06:41.380 And it says they get all land back, not just some land, all land back,

00:06:46.600 veto power over everything and all those lands,

00:06:49.320 and indefinite funding to pursue everything they want to do on that land.

00:06:53.580 So we also even have to fund the fund they're going to have on this land.

00:06:57.180 Yeah, and the thing that doesn't really make sense to me is how you're even going to attempt to amend this in any way

00:07:04.420 that's going to be satisfying to British Columbians.

00:07:06.620 Because I feel like the issue has become big enough at this point that even the average citizen

00:07:10.780 will know when you're just kind of jerking their chain and pretending like you're trying to fix the problems.

00:07:16.700 Because how can they even change anything in DRIPA while leaving the fundamental principle of the legislation in place

00:07:27.120 that would protect any private property?

00:07:30.540 Or do you think it's probably just that they're going to try and make a small cutout for major projects?

00:07:36.560 Well, what they will claim to want, and I've heard E.B. say this essentially,

00:07:41.120 that they want the control of this to be in the government's hands and not in the court's hands.

00:07:48.280 Which means that if they designed an amendment, what it would try to do, I'm imagining,

00:07:54.420 would be to fence off the courts from interfering,

00:07:57.980 but allow the NDP government to continue to do what it's doing,

00:08:00.720 which is to reach agreements, and mostly covertly, in a non-transparent way,

00:08:07.220 reach agreements with various Indigenous groups over various territories

00:08:11.140 to either recognize Aboriginal title and or to grant management rights

00:08:16.740 over the land in that territory, which they have done on numerous occasions already.

00:08:22.840 The main or most important example, I think, is the agreement over Haida Gwai,

00:08:28.400 which David E.B. has called a template for the rest of the work they're going to do.

00:08:33.460 And that agreement granted recognized Aboriginal title over the whole of Haida Gwai,

00:08:39.760 even though there is private property on Haida Gwai.

00:08:42.900 And so now those private property owners are in complete limbo

00:08:45.760 about what the status of their property is and who gets to say

00:08:48.980 and what the situation is about their property interest.

00:08:52.580 Well, we have a ridiculous case of literally a house being bulldozed

00:08:56.480 pretty much under the permission of the ban council on Haida Gwai

00:09:00.200 and nothing was ever done with it.

00:09:01.800 You would think that would be like the big flare in the sky saying something is wrong

00:09:05.560 because after that happened, there was no real legal mechanism

00:09:08.700 for anyone to use to say, you know, that wasn't right.

00:09:11.960 Because as we've seen on many reserves, and this is across Canada,

00:09:17.180 is that you're effectively living on a miniature Soviet state,

00:09:20.760 although in British Columbia, the amount of land that you can claim

00:09:23.740 makes some of these places bigger than European countries.

00:09:26.060 But like, well, there's nobody seeming to sound the alarm

00:09:30.340 that even Indigenous people themselves are basically being locked

00:09:33.560 into these collectivist entities where they can't actually even own their own land.

00:09:40.580 Yes, yes.

00:09:41.440 And it's almost, if you read the agreement that applies to Haida Gwai,

00:09:44.580 it's almost as though it's designed to be incoherent.

00:09:48.240 Like, you can't figure out what the story is because, on the one hand,

00:09:53.380 Aboriginal title is acknowledged and granted,

00:09:56.240 and the jurisdiction of the Haida Council is established.

00:10:00.120 On the other hand, it says, well, don't worry,

00:10:02.000 because the jurisdictions of the province and the federal government

00:10:05.580 and the local municipality will continue.

00:10:07.900 And don't worry, your private property will be honored.

00:10:10.400 But on the other hand, Aboriginal title prevails.

00:10:12.680 Like, you can't read the agreement and figure out, you know,

00:10:15.700 who has jurisdiction over what?

00:10:17.460 And the bottom line is, Aboriginal title prevails.

00:10:21.080 The Haida Council holds the title.

00:10:22.960 And therefore, you know, whatever happens is going to very much depend

00:10:26.560 upon what they think that means.

00:10:29.080 And so, Dallas, of course, since you've been in the legislative chamber

00:10:32.260 and you've seen what many of these NDP MLAs are like

00:10:36.220 around Indigenous issues, you've asked them a lot of questions

00:10:39.920 about Indigenous issues in the past.

00:10:41.840 But does it feel like, because, like, as Bruce points out,

00:10:45.900 that all they're going to do is just basically move the triggering mechanism

00:10:49.800 from the courts back to the government,

00:10:51.680 and I guess the radicalism will now move at their speed

00:10:55.180 rather than the speed of judges.

00:10:57.940 But do you have any trust in them at all that they're going to actually be,

00:11:01.900 you know, slowing things down?

00:11:04.420 Or is it more so this is just a political maneuver

00:11:06.740 to cool everything down temporarily

00:11:08.640 in order to get people to kind of go back to sleep on the issue?

00:11:12.440 I think you've just said it completely.

00:11:14.880 David Eby is a master of the political sort of rope-a-dope.

00:11:19.100 He'll, like, he will move back,

00:11:22.720 and he will, like he did with the Land Act

00:11:24.800 just before the election last year,

00:11:26.660 and then once he sees that there's political heat,

00:11:28.940 he backs off it, and then he comes back later

00:11:31.100 when it's more, it's a better climate

00:11:34.660 that he thinks it's a better climate

00:11:35.880 for coming back at this fight.

00:11:38.160 He will not let go of this,

00:11:39.580 and I have no hope that they will change this.

00:11:41.820 And the problem is that fundamentally,

00:11:47.400 as a premier of this province,

00:11:48.920 you can't serve two masters.

00:11:50.380 No one can serve two masters.

00:11:52.200 His master is supposed to be the population of British Columbia,

00:11:56.620 all British Columbians.

00:11:58.100 But he's got a whole other set of masters now

00:12:00.440 who are dominating him.

00:12:02.100 They are subjugating him.

00:12:03.520 They own him.

00:12:04.160 They've captured him.

00:12:05.180 They've captured the premier's office.

00:12:06.620 This is the reconciliation industry

00:12:09.560 that is in full swing.

00:12:11.680 It is on fire.

00:12:13.740 They are now getting everything they want.

00:12:15.880 The genie is fully out of the bottle,

00:12:17.660 and they will never be able to get this back in

00:12:19.660 without him having to turn his back

00:12:21.900 on people he has made promises

00:12:24.340 he should never have made.

00:12:26.380 This whole group of ideologues,

00:12:28.160 they have promised things

00:12:29.400 that should never have been promised.

00:12:30.620 It was a complete betrayal

00:12:32.640 of the rest of the province of British Columbia,

00:12:35.580 the people who are honestly trying to make their livings

00:12:38.280 and move ahead and have a good life here

00:12:39.880 and build a job and raise their children.

00:12:42.240 They have been completely left out of this discussion.

00:12:45.040 And Bruce is quite right.

00:12:46.420 There are secret negotiations going on

00:12:48.420 all over the province right now.

00:12:50.060 And I keep wanting to bring people's attention to,

00:12:52.140 it's not just Haida Gwaii,

00:12:54.020 which used to be, for people who are listening,

00:12:55.560 used to be called the Queen Charlotte Islands.

00:12:57.120 They changed the name of it,

00:12:58.700 and now we've rolled ahead.

00:13:00.180 And that's been a disaster

00:13:01.820 for private property rights

00:13:03.860 and it being a template.

00:13:05.280 But there's also the case of the Sunshine Coast

00:13:07.680 and the Sechelt Nation

00:13:08.720 and the Squamish Nation,

00:13:09.960 which has gotten what's called

00:13:11.640 joint decision-making authority

00:13:13.200 over vast swaths of land

00:13:15.140 on the Sunshine Coast of British Columbia,

00:13:16.980 which is one of the most beautiful,

00:13:18.800 incredible tourist and boating destinations

00:13:21.360 and places just off the lower mainland.

00:13:27.060 It's a beautiful place

00:13:28.000 and there's an area called Pender Harbour

00:13:29.660 and another area called Garden Bay.

00:13:31.900 These are homes all along the water there

00:13:33.900 that have been there forever.

00:13:36.120 Legacy properties going back seven,

00:13:37.940 eight generations

00:13:38.600 where people have a house on the water

00:13:40.860 that they've owned in their family

00:13:42.060 and it's got a dock.

00:13:44.600 And a few years ago,

00:13:45.980 suddenly there's a notice came out

00:13:47.520 that said you have to now apply basically

00:13:49.640 to keep your dock

00:13:50.540 and guess who the application needs to go to?

00:13:52.980 It needs to go to the Sechelt Nation.

00:13:55.280 And people were like,

00:13:56.800 what are you talking about?

00:13:58.920 So there's actually a court case

00:14:01.080 that's been launched.

00:14:01.860 The group is called

00:14:02.460 the Pender Harbour Area

00:14:04.300 and Residence Association.

00:14:05.880 The acronym is FARA, P-H-A-R-A.

00:14:08.540 And they are suing the BC government

00:14:10.520 for doing this to them

00:14:12.740 and saying that DRIPA is actually ultra vires,

00:14:15.360 which is a fancy Latin term

00:14:16.860 for saying it is outside their right

00:14:19.020 to even pass a law

00:14:19.940 and as Bruce can probably describe it

00:14:21.380 better than that

00:14:21.860 because he's a law professor.

00:14:23.360 But it is,

00:14:24.800 if you want to read precisely

00:14:26.140 what is happening in BC,

00:14:27.440 I would recommend going

00:14:28.380 to the FARA website

00:14:29.300 and reading the petition

00:14:31.100 from the people from Pender Harbour.

00:14:34.520 These poor people who are fighting,

00:14:36.480 they have almost no money.

00:14:37.620 They're struggling.

00:14:38.600 They've got a lawyer,

00:14:39.360 but God bless them.

00:14:40.660 They filed their claim

00:14:41.960 and then the response,

00:14:43.300 you can see exactly,

00:14:44.880 it's both documents

00:14:46.000 are very well written,

00:14:47.380 very concise and clear.

00:14:48.820 You can read exactly what is going on.

00:14:51.000 And when I read those last year,

00:14:53.120 I was in shock.

00:14:54.600 And I've asked everybody I know

00:14:56.980 to go and read the petition

00:14:58.720 or the statement of claim,

00:15:00.920 if you will,

00:15:01.760 and then the response.

00:15:03.540 It lays it out exactly what DRIPA means,

00:15:05.840 what they're going for

00:15:06.700 and what's happening.

00:15:07.740 And that case hasn't been gone

00:15:09.140 to the Supreme Court of BC yet.

00:15:11.240 So we have two levels of government.

00:15:12.780 We have the Supreme Court,

00:15:13.760 then the Court of Appeal.

00:15:15.060 And then after that,

00:15:15.740 it has to go to the Supreme Court of Canada.

00:15:17.520 So the Supreme Court

00:15:18.520 still hasn't heard this.

00:15:19.840 It's pending.

00:15:20.880 And I follow that case closely

00:15:22.480 because they've now also,

00:15:23.720 they've given joint decision-making over

00:15:25.760 right down to the low water,

00:15:27.340 low tide mark.

00:15:28.600 And that means that all these docks

00:15:30.200 are not on their own land anymore.

00:15:31.820 And when we were making our documentary,

00:15:33.920 we interviewed a lot of people up there

00:15:35.740 who have found that the value

00:15:37.240 of their properties

00:15:37.840 is just almost non-existent anymore

00:15:39.840 because the importance of that dock

00:15:42.260 to the value of their property

00:15:43.480 is everything.

00:15:44.720 Most of these people come

00:15:45.700 and go to their jobs with boats

00:15:47.420 or they might have a plane.

00:15:49.780 Very few have that.

00:15:50.960 But they need their docks to come and go.

00:15:52.940 It's not just recreational.

00:15:54.300 They are fishing.

00:15:55.280 They are commuting to Vancouver.

00:15:57.740 This is part of their land.

00:15:59.980 And now they're being told

00:16:00.840 there were six docks

00:16:02.580 actually removed in front of families

00:16:04.420 by a barge that came through

00:16:05.560 and started ripping them out.

00:16:06.860 That happened.

00:16:08.080 People were crying.

00:16:08.940 Some people got so depressed

00:16:09.840 they just sell their land

00:16:10.740 and they moved to the United States.

00:16:12.040 It's been a disaster emotionally

00:16:13.840 for these people.

00:16:15.500 And the media,

00:16:17.240 you'd think it wasn't even happening.

00:16:18.860 They don't report on it.

00:16:20.200 They downplay it.

00:16:21.320 And this is the part

00:16:22.600 that is really distressing to me.

00:16:24.580 The mainstream media

00:16:25.840 does not even talk about this

00:16:27.360 and they would call me

00:16:28.320 this horrible person

00:16:29.940 for talking about this.

00:16:31.680 It's shocking.

00:16:33.020 And I don't understand it,

00:16:34.260 but there you have it.

00:16:35.400 I'd like to get to Bruce

00:16:36.800 on the Sechelt Nation case

00:16:39.160 if you're familiar with it.

00:16:41.180 But the one thing

00:16:41.740 I want to mention prior to this

00:16:43.140 is it feels like a lot

00:16:44.200 of what the government's

00:16:44.920 doing right now.

00:16:45.740 And it's very obvious

00:16:46.620 with the potential amendments

00:16:48.460 they'll make to DRIPA,

00:16:49.240 but they're bargaining

00:16:49.980 with the public.

00:16:51.200 The public's mad,

00:16:52.020 so they will make some,

00:16:52.980 you know,

00:16:53.500 they will sacrifice a few pawns

00:16:55.400 in order to keep

00:16:56.320 the agenda moving forward.

00:16:57.640 Because in another new thing

00:17:00.140 that's just popped up

00:17:00.900 in the last few days

00:17:01.780 is that the NDP government

00:17:03.400 is going to be backing off

00:17:04.860 the Heritage Conservation Act

00:17:06.620 that they were trying

00:17:07.220 to move through

00:17:07.780 the legislature

00:17:08.460 that was almost

00:17:10.000 what's going on

00:17:11.020 in Sechelt First Nation

00:17:12.840 on steroids,

00:17:14.260 where everywhere

00:17:14.940 you could be a developer,

00:17:16.760 somebody just doing

00:17:17.460 a home renovation,

00:17:18.560 could be subject

00:17:19.300 to basically archaeological digs

00:17:21.600 in order to just put up

00:17:22.840 a shed outside.

00:17:24.600 But if you want to comment

00:17:26.020 on any of that,

00:17:27.660 Bruce,

00:17:27.800 you can go for it.

00:17:29.200 Right.

00:17:29.580 Well, I want to add

00:17:30.640 a couple of things.

00:17:31.320 Just put this in context.

00:17:33.960 And, you know,

00:17:34.240 Dallas's description

00:17:35.060 is absolutely correct.

00:17:37.580 But I also want to warn people

00:17:40.060 that just because

00:17:41.940 you haven't heard

00:17:42.960 of anything happening

00:17:44.480 in your area

00:17:45.300 does not mean

00:17:45.960 it's not happening.

00:17:46.860 Several of these agreements

00:17:47.900 have only come to light

00:17:49.000 after they've been finalized.

00:17:50.720 Correct.

00:17:51.280 Because the B.C. government

00:17:52.760 is doing it in this way

00:17:54.180 so as to avoid

00:17:55.320 public scrutiny

00:17:56.360 of what their plans are.

00:17:58.140 So that's the first thing.

00:17:59.840 And the second thing is

00:18:01.180 that these are agreements.

00:18:05.300 They're made pursuant

00:18:06.700 to the statutory authority

00:18:07.980 that DRIPA provides.

00:18:09.760 And the content

00:18:10.920 of these various agreements,

00:18:11.920 you know,

00:18:12.220 differs from agreement

00:18:13.860 to agreement.

00:18:14.540 But what happened,

00:18:15.580 let me go back

00:18:16.080 to Haida Gwaii for a moment.

00:18:17.680 What happened

00:18:18.280 in the Haida Gwaii case

00:18:19.380 is that the three parties

00:18:22.680 involved in these agreements,

00:18:23.940 that is the Haida Council,

00:18:26.760 the provincial government

00:18:27.780 in B.C.

00:18:28.420 and the federal government,

00:18:30.300 together went

00:18:32.720 to the B.C. Supreme Court

00:18:35.000 to ask for a consent declaration

00:18:39.080 that the aboriginal title

00:18:42.120 as recognized

00:18:42.920 in these agreements

00:18:43.800 was now recognized

00:18:46.820 under Section 35

00:18:47.920 of the Constitution.

00:18:48.740 Now,

00:18:50.080 what that means is,

00:18:52.100 and the court granted

00:18:53.260 the consent order,

00:18:55.540 what that means is

00:18:56.540 that the effect

00:18:59.940 of these agreements,

00:19:01.300 if you go through

00:19:01.920 that process,

00:19:03.340 becomes entrenched

00:19:04.900 constitutionally.

00:19:06.680 And a future B.C. government

00:19:08.640 could not then go back

00:19:10.500 and say,

00:19:10.900 you know what,

00:19:11.200 we made a mistake

00:19:11.780 with these agreements,

00:19:12.460 we're going to cancel

00:19:13.020 the agreements,

00:19:13.580 or we're going to pass

00:19:14.160 legislation to that effect,

00:19:15.520 we're going to repeal DRIPA,

00:19:16.560 or we're going to reverse

00:19:17.220 this process.

00:19:18.740 If you have a court

00:19:20.120 declaring that the results

00:19:21.940 of this are entrenched

00:19:23.000 under Section 35,

00:19:24.880 the thing is done.

00:19:26.400 You cannot revisit it.

00:19:28.080 Only it is now

00:19:30.020 in the control

00:19:30.680 exclusively of the courts.

00:19:32.200 You can't legislate

00:19:33.260 your way around it.

00:19:34.520 And so the play here is

00:19:38.160 you start with DRIPA,

00:19:39.600 you make agreements,

00:19:40.800 and then you constitutionalize

00:19:42.660 the result of the agreements

00:19:43.760 so that nobody can touch it

00:19:45.200 from now on.

00:19:46.560 Yeah, that's correct.

00:19:50.360 And let me just point out too,

00:19:52.400 Bruce, that's exactly right,

00:19:54.500 described so perfectly.

00:19:55.700 And the other thing is that

00:19:56.800 literally these agreements

00:19:59.180 are coming out like

00:20:00.180 jack-in-the-box.

00:20:01.580 Boing!

00:20:02.240 It's a fait accompli.

00:20:03.580 It's at you.

00:20:04.500 It's done.

00:20:05.180 It's over.

00:20:06.600 And think about giving

00:20:07.520 joint decision-making authority

00:20:08.960 to a tribe

00:20:10.140 that you don't even get

00:20:12.700 to vote for, okay?

00:20:14.320 And they can now,

00:20:15.240 believe me,

00:20:15.560 there's going to be taxation

00:20:16.520 following all this.

00:20:17.600 They are getting control

00:20:18.780 over land that you own

00:20:20.420 and they get to govern you

00:20:22.200 and you don't get to vote

00:20:23.300 for them

00:20:23.700 because under the Indian Act,

00:20:25.780 the fiduciary obligation

00:20:27.020 from a band

00:20:27.620 is owed only to its band.

00:20:28.960 They have no duty

00:20:29.780 to you whatsoever

00:20:30.740 as a person

00:20:32.240 who's not in their tribe.

00:20:33.240 And so the other recently,

00:20:36.960 that was the Pender Harbour area

00:20:38.840 which hit parts of Nelson Island,

00:20:42.360 Pender Harbour.

00:20:42.940 I mean, it's this vast tract of land.

00:20:45.580 Then the next one came out

00:20:46.940 that was just buried in the news.

00:20:48.440 It was quietly done

00:20:49.280 but it hit,

00:20:50.260 it went to the Squamish Nation.

00:20:51.620 It was popped out

00:20:52.700 late last summer, I believe,

00:20:55.860 was it's now covering

00:20:58.540 the area near Langdale,

00:21:00.480 Gibson's,

00:21:02.500 down to,

00:21:03.540 into Howe Sound,

00:21:05.600 down into Squamish,

00:21:06.900 of course.

00:21:07.380 This is,

00:21:07.820 this is Keats Island,

00:21:09.620 Gambier Island.

00:21:10.820 We're talking,

00:21:12.740 and people,

00:21:13.720 I still talk to people

00:21:14.720 who don't even know

00:21:15.680 that this has happened.

00:21:17.320 And there's a wharf,

00:21:18.460 I have a place up there

00:21:19.340 and there's a wharf

00:21:20.020 that hasn't been repaired now

00:21:21.360 for years

00:21:21.860 and all the children

00:21:22.580 used to jump on this wharf.

00:21:23.900 It was one of the,

00:21:25.380 it was,

00:21:25.780 it started on the beach

00:21:26.800 and it would go right out

00:21:27.600 and all the kids every summer

00:21:28.780 it was the place

00:21:29.420 where all the flotillas

00:21:30.220 would be used

00:21:30.880 for the gala day every year

00:21:32.200 from, you know,

00:21:33.300 back when,

00:21:34.000 you know,

00:21:34.320 100 years ago it was built.

00:21:36.040 And it was a favourite spot

00:21:37.460 for people.

00:21:38.380 It was closed down suddenly

00:21:39.980 and blocked

00:21:41.200 about two summers ago.

00:21:43.900 And it's just sat there

00:21:44.900 and all the kids

00:21:45.600 can't go out

00:21:46.140 and jump off the wharf anymore.

00:21:47.900 No one can go out there

00:21:48.720 and it's being just left to decay.

00:21:50.200 And I started saying,

00:21:50.920 come on, you guys,

00:21:51.400 let's just raise the money

00:21:53.120 and let's refurbish the wharf

00:21:55.100 and make it,

00:21:55.680 because they were saying

00:21:56.300 it wasn't safe.

00:21:57.440 I say,

00:21:57.980 I call BS on that,

00:21:59.100 but either way,

00:22:01.080 they closed it down.

00:22:02.440 But now I understand

00:22:03.340 why it's been slow,

00:22:04.500 slow moving.

00:22:05.900 That wharf,

00:22:07.180 like it's all coming together

00:22:08.360 for me now.

00:22:08.860 That wharf,

00:22:09.420 they don't want to fix it

00:22:10.360 because we don't own it anymore.

00:22:12.840 The band is going to decide

00:22:13.920 what happens with that wharf.

00:22:15.060 And I mean,

00:22:16.640 this is the type of thing.

00:22:17.780 So when things aren't moving,

00:22:19.060 you can ask yourself,

00:22:20.400 what's really going on here?

00:22:21.340 There's probably a claim

00:22:22.320 that's under negotiation

00:22:23.400 right now for this thing.

00:22:24.860 It's the same as the claim

00:22:26.140 that's over Port Coquitlam right now.

00:22:28.000 I kept asking,

00:22:28.940 why isn't Riverview

00:22:29.680 being opened again?

00:22:30.980 Why aren't we reopening it?

00:22:32.120 We've got a hospital right there

00:22:33.280 for the mentally ill,

00:22:34.220 for people who are insane

00:22:35.160 and they need a place

00:22:35.880 to go and be

00:22:36.480 so they're not a danger

00:22:37.260 to themselves and others

00:22:38.220 and they can be safe.

00:22:39.620 And Riverview sits there.

00:22:40.740 Well, now it,

00:22:41.440 whoops,

00:22:41.860 whoopsie daisy,

00:22:42.580 look what's there.

00:22:43.400 There's a land claim

00:22:44.300 over that area.

00:22:45.460 Now you see

00:22:46.140 what's really happening.

00:22:47.460 Riverview isn't under discussion

00:22:48.860 or reopening

00:22:49.480 because it's already

00:22:50.340 being discussed privately

00:22:51.480 in these secret things.

00:22:53.020 So everything

00:22:53.940 that's not moving forward

00:22:55.000 right now,

00:22:55.460 I think,

00:22:55.880 and Bruce is right,

00:22:56.940 even though you haven't heard

00:22:58.080 about the deal affecting

00:22:58.960 your land yet,

00:22:59.820 it's happening.

00:23:00.480 Well, you get that absurd

00:23:02.360 statement that literally

00:23:04.040 120% of British Columbia

00:23:06.240 is under a land claim

00:23:07.440 because many of the

00:23:08.800 indigenous bands themselves

00:23:10.460 can't even agree

00:23:11.300 who owns a particular

00:23:12.460 piece of land

00:23:13.240 because when everything

00:23:14.300 literally can boil down

00:23:15.840 to just stories

00:23:17.740 and whatever the knowledge

00:23:19.220 keepers say

00:23:19.900 that our tribe

00:23:20.720 used to basically

00:23:21.720 occupy and use,

00:23:23.080 when that's admissible

00:23:25.000 in court,

00:23:26.060 well, obviously,

00:23:26.820 you're going to incentivize

00:23:28.100 a lot of people

00:23:28.760 like it's the border

00:23:30.740 between Russia and Georgia

00:23:31.960 going in the middle of night

00:23:34.540 and taking the barbed wire

00:23:35.940 and moving in another

00:23:36.900 few hundred feet

00:23:38.180 down the other direction.

00:23:40.220 I'm laughing,

00:23:40.780 but it's not funny.

00:23:42.440 It's like,

00:23:42.980 if a gold mine

00:23:44.300 was discovered somewhere

00:23:45.280 or some other mine,

00:23:46.300 well, maybe that is

00:23:47.320 part of our land now

00:23:48.420 because it's just a kilometer

00:23:49.540 over that direction.

00:23:51.160 But before we started doing this,

00:23:52.960 I was just looking through

00:23:54.360 all the potential land deals

00:23:55.940 that I could actually find

00:23:57.100 that were signed

00:23:58.120 in just the last two years,

00:23:59.460 2024 and 2025,

00:24:01.520 and even AI

00:24:03.000 can't find many of them.

00:24:04.580 I was able to find about 10

00:24:05.980 and that did not include Squamish.

00:24:07.920 That didn't include

00:24:08.600 a couple other ones

00:24:09.560 that I was aware of

00:24:10.540 because there's so much secrecy

00:24:12.300 around how they do stuff like this.

00:24:14.320 And Dallas,

00:24:15.140 you've even had to come right up

00:24:17.080 face to face

00:24:17.720 with the secrecy element

00:24:19.320 of all this

00:24:19.960 because they've also made it

00:24:21.360 so that you can't actually

00:24:23.060 get readouts

00:24:24.740 of anything to do

00:24:26.540 with any financial information

00:24:27.900 having to do

00:24:28.600 with First Nation bans.

00:24:30.160 So when that happened

00:24:31.240 with the Schmuckweawesome street

00:24:33.260 that you said...

00:24:33.620 Oh, no, no.

00:24:33.840 You're saying it wrong.

00:24:34.740 You're saying it wrong.

00:24:35.600 Schmuckweawesome.

00:24:36.800 And it used to be called

00:24:38.080 Trutch Street

00:24:38.840 and now it's this indecipherable

00:24:40.860 name on a street

00:24:42.460 that's partly in my riding,

00:24:44.080 parts of it in my riding,

00:24:44.900 partly not.

00:24:45.780 And we went and talked

00:24:46.660 to people on that street

00:24:47.540 and I don't know

00:24:47.920 if your listeners know about this,

00:24:48.980 but they renamed a street

00:24:49.960 that's a prestigious address

00:24:51.620 in my riding,

00:24:52.560 Trutch Street.

00:24:53.000 It's been there forever

00:24:53.720 and they've been complaining

00:24:55.020 about things that Trutch said

00:24:57.600 back when he was the lead surveyor

00:24:59.500 for the province

00:25:00.100 of British Columbia

00:25:00.780 about native people

00:25:01.660 and they said

00:25:02.520 he was a disgusting man

00:25:03.520 and maybe he was,

00:25:04.340 I don't know,

00:25:04.820 but he did a lot of,

00:25:06.100 he did a lot of the really

00:25:07.260 horrible surveying work

00:25:08.440 that needed to be done

00:25:09.300 in the forest and so on

00:25:10.960 and planning where reserves

00:25:12.540 are going to be.

00:25:13.060 And so,

00:25:13.720 but the thing is

00:25:14.560 they wanted the name gone

00:25:16.040 because they said

00:25:17.000 he was a bad person.

00:25:18.580 Now,

00:25:19.120 now this name

00:25:20.100 is on this street.

00:25:21.400 You can't write it.

00:25:22.540 You can't read it.

00:25:23.980 They've had to put

00:25:24.800 a fake name underneath it

00:25:25.980 until people have gotten

00:25:26.980 used to the new name.

00:25:28.220 So they've got

00:25:28.740 this Schmuckwium Awesome

00:25:30.900 at the top

00:25:31.820 that you can't read or spell.

00:25:33.340 Then underneath

00:25:33.900 is another sign

00:25:34.700 that says Musquium View,

00:25:36.500 which I guess

00:25:37.080 is what Schmuckwium Awesome means.

00:25:39.460 And so,

00:25:40.240 and all of these people

00:25:41.160 have been told

00:25:41.640 that they have to change

00:25:42.560 all of their identification

00:25:43.780 to have this new name

00:25:46.660 that uses an alphabet

00:25:47.660 that is not recognizable

00:25:49.120 by either,

00:25:49.880 it's not one of the two

00:25:50.740 official languages of Canada.

00:25:52.420 And some of them have,

00:25:53.380 think about all the ID

00:25:54.440 you'd have to change,

00:25:55.240 you guys.

00:25:55.900 And even ICBC

00:25:56.900 is forcing them

00:25:57.700 to change their driver's license

00:25:59.000 to this

00:25:59.340 and they've got one year

00:26:00.140 to do this.

00:26:00.760 Well,

00:26:00.920 and the big thing was

00:26:01.760 that it was like

00:26:02.700 a gifted name

00:26:03.980 by the Musquium Band

00:26:05.480 and then you had found out

00:26:06.700 through documents

00:26:07.400 being leaked to you

00:26:08.360 that they got

00:26:09.460 $35,000

00:26:10.460 for this gift

00:26:11.680 to walk literally

00:26:12.900 just down the street

00:26:13.920 to be there

00:26:14.700 for a ceremony

00:26:15.380 where they changed

00:26:16.060 the name.

00:26:16.800 They actually paid people

00:26:18.480 to come and make

00:26:19.260 cedar bracelets

00:26:20.100 at an event

00:26:20.840 that they were gifting

00:26:21.680 the name

00:26:22.160 to this neighborhood

00:26:23.020 and this one,

00:26:25.760 they called it a gift

00:26:26.660 to people in my writing.

00:26:28.740 I don't think

00:26:29.160 they feel that way about it.

00:26:30.720 You can call it

00:26:31.560 whatever you want

00:26:32.280 but it's still

00:26:32.940 a massive inconvenience

00:26:34.220 and it's upsetting

00:26:34.860 a lot of people

00:26:35.520 even their property values

00:26:36.760 but this,

00:26:38.100 a document

00:26:39.220 came out of

00:26:40.080 the City Hall

00:26:41.240 showing that

00:26:41.800 $33,500

00:26:43.200 have been spent

00:26:44.160 on this

00:26:44.620 gifting ceremony

00:26:45.880 which is very close

00:26:47.740 to where the

00:26:48.120 Musquium Reserve is.

00:26:49.260 People could have

00:26:49.680 just walked there

00:26:50.260 if they were really

00:26:50.780 into this.

00:26:51.360 They could have

00:26:51.660 walked there

00:26:52.020 and gone there

00:26:52.460 for free

00:26:52.900 but instead

00:26:54.640 they paid people

00:26:55.500 to come

00:26:56.280 and you know

00:26:56.880 it says there

00:26:58.280 dancer

00:26:58.880 cedar bracelets

00:27:01.240 singer

00:27:03.400 just volunteer

00:27:06.140 $200 each

00:27:07.420 to come to this thing

00:27:08.540 and then they demanded

00:27:09.920 that I return the document

00:27:11.100 and I said no

00:27:12.220 because

00:27:13.900 first of all

00:27:14.580 it was already out

00:27:15.280 all over social media

00:27:16.480 but the people

00:27:17.740 and that

00:27:18.240 let's not forget

00:27:19.460 that $33,500

00:27:21.060 was only for that ceremony.

00:27:22.960 Let's think about

00:27:23.580 all the other money

00:27:24.520 that was spent internally

00:27:25.480 for the past year

00:27:26.720 getting ready

00:27:27.940 for this street name change.

00:27:29.800 It's probably way more

00:27:31.260 like in the

00:27:31.900 hundreds of thousands

00:27:33.000 that was spent

00:27:33.640 on this one street

00:27:34.540 and by the way

00:27:35.960 if I were premier for a day

00:27:37.120 all names would be

00:27:38.100 going back to where they were.

00:27:39.660 All names restored

00:27:40.940 to where they were.

00:27:41.920 We're not changing

00:27:42.620 the name of British Columbia

00:27:43.560 eventually to be

00:27:44.420 Coast Salish Nations

00:27:45.320 because I know

00:27:45.760 that's coming to Vancouver.

00:27:47.580 They now refer to

00:27:48.640 so-called

00:27:49.420 or currently known

00:27:50.580 as Vancouver.

00:27:51.600 We're seeing that

00:27:52.260 I see that on

00:27:52.940 different NGOs

00:27:53.880 working with the government.

00:27:55.520 So all names

00:27:56.660 have to go back

00:27:57.320 to what they were

00:27:58.000 and using the two

00:27:59.060 official languages.

00:28:00.040 Bruce,

00:28:00.400 but is that

00:28:01.000 the current legal status

00:28:03.640 anywhere else

00:28:04.700 in Canada right now

00:28:05.780 where you cannot

00:28:06.620 do a FOIP request

00:28:09.520 of indigenous

00:28:10.960 like basically

00:28:13.000 expenses

00:28:13.660 and other information

00:28:15.260 related to indigenous culture

00:28:16.720 because that's

00:28:17.460 apparently how things

00:28:18.580 work currently

00:28:19.140 in British Columbia.

00:28:19.880 It's all a big secret.

00:28:21.980 Yeah,

00:28:22.480 I couldn't tell you

00:28:23.040 the details there

00:28:23.840 but what I do know

00:28:24.580 is this.

00:28:25.620 So when Stephen Harper

00:28:26.920 was in office

00:28:27.680 he created a regime

00:28:29.760 in which

00:28:30.380 the expenses

00:28:32.900 of each of the

00:28:34.560 First Nations

00:28:35.240 would be transparent.

00:28:36.140 they had a report

00:28:36.880 on what happened

00:28:37.680 to all the money

00:28:38.300 that the governments

00:28:38.840 were giving them

00:28:39.400 and when Justin Trudeau

00:28:41.040 came into power

00:28:41.780 he put that on ice.

00:28:44.160 So it is not

00:28:44.820 presently

00:28:46.060 certainly a federal

00:28:46.820 government requirement

00:28:47.620 that these groups

00:28:50.820 and their leaders

00:28:51.600 who have control

00:28:52.340 of the money

00:28:52.860 report back

00:28:54.180 to anybody

00:28:54.760 whether the government

00:28:55.540 I don't know

00:28:55.920 if the government

00:28:56.360 takes notice of this

00:28:58.300 but certainly

00:28:58.720 to the public

00:28:59.340 the public

00:29:00.580 is not right now

00:29:01.720 federally

00:29:02.380 anyway

00:29:03.380 entitled to see

00:29:04.760 what happened

00:29:05.220 to all the money.

00:29:06.140 what the situation

00:29:07.800 is permissionally

00:29:08.940 I couldn't tell you

00:29:09.940 exactly

00:29:10.280 but I wouldn't

00:29:11.300 be surprised.

00:29:12.980 We had this

00:29:13.660 recent situation

00:29:15.260 where I think

00:29:16.520 it was the

00:29:16.780 Federal Transparency

00:29:18.180 Officer

00:29:18.920 or Commissioner

00:29:19.480 had said

00:29:20.740 that in regards

00:29:21.660 to the specific

00:29:22.680 Kamloops

00:29:23.480 Residential School

00:29:24.480 case

00:29:24.980 that they actually

00:29:26.120 even though

00:29:26.680 you would not

00:29:27.360 really expect this

00:29:28.120 from the federal

00:29:28.680 government

00:29:29.060 but they actually

00:29:29.880 started complaining

00:29:30.660 the Transparency

00:29:32.160 Commissioner

00:29:32.660 or Privacy

00:29:33.500 Commissioner

00:29:33.960 that they

00:29:34.820 weren't actually

00:29:35.720 publishing

00:29:36.300 any progress

00:29:38.900 reports on

00:29:39.740 excavations

00:29:40.480 or anything

00:29:41.000 of these

00:29:42.140 claimed graves

00:29:43.480 at the Kamloops

00:29:44.300 Residential School

00:29:45.200 and what that

00:29:47.000 indicated to me

00:29:48.080 was

00:29:48.440 well one

00:29:49.300 it's good

00:29:49.660 that the

00:29:50.120 commissioner

00:29:50.720 is actually

00:29:51.140 doing their

00:29:51.580 job

00:29:52.180 it's good

00:29:53.060 to actually

00:29:53.360 have watchdogs

00:29:54.600 who are actually

00:29:55.240 fulfilling the role

00:29:56.060 but it felt like

00:29:56.960 that feels like

00:29:58.040 the culture

00:29:58.600 from British Columbia

00:29:59.700 is starting to

00:30:00.320 infect the federal

00:30:01.140 government

00:30:01.540 just based on

00:30:02.480 the fact that

00:30:02.980 they just

00:30:03.540 kind of went

00:30:03.920 along with

00:30:04.420 the idea

00:30:04.780 that they

00:30:05.060 weren't actually

00:30:05.600 going to even

00:30:06.080 check what

00:30:06.580 was happening

00:30:07.100 with these

00:30:07.720 millions and

00:30:08.720 millions of

00:30:09.140 dollars given

00:30:09.620 by taxpayers

00:30:10.360 and that's not

00:30:11.340 a surprise

00:30:11.940 right

00:30:12.600 we should

00:30:13.080 we also

00:30:13.700 mentioned

00:30:14.140 Dallas is quite

00:30:14.920 right that

00:30:15.440 BC is the only

00:30:16.300 province that

00:30:17.020 has passed

00:30:17.940 a statute

00:30:18.680 like

00:30:19.120 DRIPA

00:30:19.660 but the

00:30:20.660 federal

00:30:20.900 government

00:30:21.260 has

00:30:21.580 it has

00:30:22.140 its own

00:30:22.600 statute

00:30:23.060 it's been

00:30:24.060 doing other

00:30:24.560 kinds of

00:30:25.000 work under

00:30:25.460 that mandate

00:30:26.240 and so it's

00:30:27.260 not a surprise

00:30:27.880 that the

00:30:28.420 federal government

00:30:29.240 would sort of

00:30:29.860 be on the

00:30:30.380 same page

00:30:31.080 as the

00:30:32.080 BC government

00:30:32.680 but I want

00:30:33.660 to make a

00:30:33.960 larger point

00:30:34.500 which is this

00:30:35.160 you know

00:30:35.600 people who are

00:30:36.160 hearing all of

00:30:36.780 this and

00:30:37.600 and are

00:30:38.140 thinking well

00:30:38.780 you know

00:30:39.020 this doesn't

00:30:39.400 make any

00:30:39.720 sense

00:30:40.080 you know

00:30:40.720 how could

00:30:40.960 this be a

00:30:41.320 good policy

00:30:41.860 how could

00:30:42.200 this produce

00:30:42.700 good results

00:30:43.300 and that's

00:30:45.280 not the

00:30:45.600 point

00:30:46.020 like if you

00:30:46.760 get trapped

00:30:47.360 in trying to

00:30:47.960 make sense

00:30:48.480 of this

00:30:48.860 you're on

00:30:49.340 the wrong

00:30:49.680 track

00:30:50.020 this is not

00:30:51.320 about good

00:30:51.960 policy

00:30:52.460 this is not

00:30:53.460 about good

00:30:53.920 outcomes for

00:30:54.520 the province

00:30:54.980 or its

00:30:55.260 people

00:30:55.620 this is

00:30:57.000 purely

00:30:57.560 political

00:30:58.360 this is a

00:30:58.940 demonstration

00:30:59.400 of power

00:31:00.140 this is a

00:31:01.900 championing of

00:31:02.780 one group

00:31:03.360 over another

00:31:03.920 group

00:31:04.260 and if you

00:31:05.280 if you get

00:31:05.900 caught up

00:31:06.600 in trying to

00:31:07.600 do like a

00:31:08.080 policy analysis

00:31:08.920 you know

00:31:09.240 how does that

00:31:09.840 how does this

00:31:10.680 make sense

00:31:11.220 you know

00:31:11.700 what are they

00:31:11.980 trying to

00:31:12.360 achieve

00:31:12.840 that that

00:31:14.680 that's not

00:31:15.180 the game

00:31:15.560 here

00:31:15.780 the game

00:31:16.740 here is you

00:31:17.180 have to

00:31:17.500 accept things

00:31:18.260 as they

00:31:19.060 appear to

00:31:19.740 you

00:31:20.000 which is

00:31:21.060 this is a

00:31:22.520 power struggle

00:31:23.220 for a

00:31:24.660 in ideological

00:31:25.940 terms

00:31:26.480 this is the

00:31:27.220 championing of

00:31:28.300 an ideology

00:31:28.900 that is

00:31:30.500 that is

00:31:31.280 saying that

00:31:32.260 the people

00:31:33.260 you know

00:31:34.300 in BC

00:31:34.840 who have

00:31:35.440 settled in BC

00:31:36.540 or are

00:31:37.240 related to

00:31:37.940 people who

00:31:38.400 settled in

00:31:38.820 BC are

00:31:39.440 settlers and

00:31:40.500 don't belong

00:31:41.020 there and

00:31:42.400 if if you

00:31:43.620 go along with

00:31:44.380 this agenda

00:31:45.240 that's essentially

00:31:46.240 what you're

00:31:46.540 saying

00:31:46.840 maybe in the

00:31:48.440 context of

00:31:49.100 those who

00:31:49.520 are living

00:31:49.960 in areas

00:31:50.920 around Richmond

00:31:52.160 that have

00:31:52.560 been claimed

00:31:53.120 by the

00:31:53.740 Cowichan

00:31:54.380 band and

00:31:56.040 if you live

00:31:56.720 in all of

00:31:57.560 Kamloops that's

00:31:58.280 now being

00:31:58.780 claimed by

00:31:59.600 the Kamloops

00:32:00.320 and if you're

00:32:01.320 living in

00:32:01.760 Port Coquitlam

00:32:02.500 what would

00:32:03.320 you say

00:32:03.720 the average

00:32:04.520 citizen is

00:32:05.720 capable of

00:32:06.520 doing at

00:32:07.040 this point

00:32:07.600 in order to

00:32:08.200 protect their

00:32:08.780 private property

00:32:09.600 are we kind

00:32:10.240 of in the

00:32:10.740 situation where

00:32:12.000 now we have

00:32:12.480 to rely on

00:32:13.680 all the

00:32:13.940 horrible

00:32:14.220 politicians

00:32:14.820 to try and

00:32:15.440 actually solve

00:32:16.100 the problem

00:32:16.600 by repealing

00:32:18.400 DRIPA

00:32:18.660 or would

00:32:19.040 repealing

00:32:19.440 DRIPA

00:32:19.700 at this

00:32:20.140 point even

00:32:20.680 actually fix

00:32:21.420 it or is

00:32:21.800 it far

00:32:22.820 more pieces

00:32:23.360 of legislation

00:32:23.980 that need

00:32:24.400 to be

00:32:24.760 removed

00:32:25.720 okay well

00:32:26.680 you need

00:32:27.420 to repeal

00:32:28.480 DRIPA

00:32:28.820 you need

00:32:30.320 to not

00:32:30.720 trust

00:32:31.280 that you're

00:32:32.480 government

00:32:32.820 is acting

00:32:33.400 in good

00:32:33.740 faith

00:32:34.120 but I'm

00:32:35.800 going to

00:32:36.440 be a little

00:32:37.000 bit facetious

00:32:37.580 which is

00:32:37.960 you could

00:32:38.140 also choose

00:32:38.660 to move

00:32:38.940 to Alberta

00:32:39.400 and try

00:32:40.760 and get

00:32:40.960 out of

00:32:41.140 this country

00:32:41.540 yeah

00:32:42.800 and then

00:32:43.640 so with

00:32:44.500 Dallas

00:32:45.500 because obviously

00:32:46.740 you get

00:32:47.120 emails all the

00:32:47.800 time from

00:32:48.260 people in

00:32:48.760 these different

00:32:50.840 ridings that

00:32:51.660 are obviously

00:32:52.280 not your

00:32:52.700 own that have

00:32:53.200 all these

00:32:53.460 land claims

00:32:54.060 on them

00:32:54.480 and what's

00:32:55.300 been the

00:32:55.920 has the

00:32:56.820 attitude been

00:32:57.620 that people

00:32:58.320 are panicked

00:32:58.960 and wanting

00:32:59.440 to get out

00:32:59.960 and can they

00:33:00.620 even get out

00:33:01.280 at this point

00:33:01.820 if you can't

00:33:02.320 actually sell

00:33:02.940 your home

00:33:03.440 if it's

00:33:04.240 you know

00:33:04.460 at maybe

00:33:05.380 even half

00:33:05.880 the value

00:33:06.340 or you're

00:33:06.860 legally not

00:33:07.700 even allowed

00:33:08.080 to sell it

00:33:08.500 because it

00:33:08.820 might not

00:33:09.140 actually fully

00:33:09.760 belong to

00:33:10.280 you

00:33:10.460 well I know

00:33:12.280 I mean my

00:33:13.120 business before

00:33:14.200 I go into

00:33:14.480 politics I'm

00:33:15.040 in the real

00:33:15.480 estate business

00:33:16.140 and I know

00:33:17.340 for a fact

00:33:18.000 that property

00:33:18.620 values are

00:33:19.060 dropping

00:33:19.360 and I know

00:33:20.340 I speak to

00:33:21.660 like small

00:33:22.400 developers even

00:33:23.140 who they are

00:33:24.700 coming to me

00:33:25.240 and saying

00:33:25.500 hey Dallas

00:33:26.000 what is going

00:33:27.040 on like

00:33:27.420 nothing selling

00:33:28.340 now

00:33:28.720 homes are

00:33:30.220 finished

00:33:30.560 ready to

00:33:30.960 go

00:33:31.260 occupancy

00:33:31.960 permits

00:33:32.360 there

00:33:32.660 they're not

00:33:33.560 selling

00:33:33.880 this is a

00:33:34.360 story just

00:33:34.940 from Surrey

00:33:35.440 which is a

00:33:36.040 which is a

00:33:37.100 just a suburb

00:33:38.300 of Vancouver

00:33:38.880 sort of like

00:33:39.640 Mississauga

00:33:40.620 is to Toronto

00:33:41.540 it's a

00:33:44.300 it's a real

00:33:45.740 mess

00:33:46.060 the people

00:33:47.200 are leaving

00:33:48.120 but you're

00:33:48.800 right

00:33:49.020 they are going

00:33:49.700 to take a

00:33:50.240 cut price

00:33:50.720 on their

00:33:51.020 house now

00:33:51.600 that is a

00:33:52.360 fact

00:33:52.680 prices are

00:33:54.700 dropping

00:33:55.160 dramatically

00:33:57.220 which you

00:33:58.240 know

00:33:58.420 that in

00:33:59.680 and of

00:33:59.880 itself

00:34:00.180 isn't a

00:34:00.540 bad thing

00:34:00.940 there probably

00:34:01.300 needed to be

00:34:01.760 a correction

00:34:02.200 in property

00:34:02.720 values in BC

00:34:03.500 at some point

00:34:04.220 things were

00:34:04.700 you know

00:34:05.000 hyperinflated

00:34:05.720 but leaving

00:34:06.560 that aside

00:34:07.200 what's really

00:34:07.760 happening is

00:34:08.520 that the

00:34:09.740 the whole

00:34:10.680 market

00:34:11.180 real estate

00:34:12.140 money

00:34:12.520 everything

00:34:12.980 relies on

00:34:13.880 the confidence

00:34:14.740 that people

00:34:15.220 have that the

00:34:15.880 system is going

00:34:16.540 to be there

00:34:17.240 that it's solid

00:34:18.380 that rule of

00:34:19.060 law is

00:34:20.020 fundamental to

00:34:21.020 it and

00:34:21.280 that you have

00:34:21.700 your private

00:34:22.100 property rights

00:34:22.920 and once

00:34:24.140 you the

00:34:24.860 undergirding

00:34:26.120 for our

00:34:26.540 western

00:34:26.760 civilization

00:34:27.460 and the

00:34:28.000 free

00:34:28.200 enterprise

00:34:28.600 economy

00:34:29.080 is that

00:34:29.440 we trust

00:34:29.900 that we

00:34:30.220 own

00:34:30.520 what we

00:34:30.860 own

00:34:31.200 and we

00:34:32.240 trust

00:34:32.580 that the

00:34:32.880 rule of

00:34:33.220 law will

00:34:33.580 defend

00:34:33.920 what we

00:34:34.240 own

00:34:34.460 and right

00:34:35.360 now we're

00:34:35.820 finding out

00:34:36.420 that that is

00:34:37.140 not the

00:34:37.520 case anymore

00:34:38.200 things are

00:34:39.360 completely

00:34:39.900 confused

00:34:40.680 and muddy

00:34:42.340 it is not

00:34:43.520 clear what you

00:34:44.100 own anymore

00:34:44.700 and now of

00:34:46.020 course

00:34:46.320 this is

00:34:47.780 you know

00:34:48.140 moving to

00:34:48.580 Alberta

00:34:48.900 yes

00:34:49.320 like believe

00:34:51.120 me I've

00:34:51.620 thought about

00:34:52.080 it but

00:34:52.340 I also feel

00:34:53.540 like why am

00:34:54.180 I doing

00:34:54.500 this because

00:34:55.260 I

00:34:55.520 I just

00:34:56.340 can't give

00:34:56.860 up on my

00:34:57.260 province

00:34:57.580 I'm a

00:34:58.080 fifth generation

00:34:58.900 British Columbian

00:34:59.800 I consider

00:35:00.680 myself indigenous

00:35:01.620 to this province

00:35:02.600 my ancestors

00:35:03.780 built

00:35:04.280 worked

00:35:05.100 struggled

00:35:05.920 lost things

00:35:07.080 gained things

00:35:07.860 had heartbreak

00:35:09.320 heart attacks

00:35:09.940 things

00:35:10.240 you know

00:35:12.320 heartbreak

00:35:13.040 troubles

00:35:13.700 you know

00:35:14.860 so I owe

00:35:16.040 it to them

00:35:16.580 and then I've

00:35:17.340 got kids

00:35:17.840 and you know

00:35:19.000 it's all nice

00:35:19.880 that I grew up

00:35:20.540 I'm in my

00:35:21.160 60s now

00:35:21.760 I can say

00:35:22.420 I had a great

00:35:23.060 run

00:35:23.340 but I

00:35:24.020 I think

00:35:24.400 that's a

00:35:24.800 cop-out

00:35:25.200 and people

00:35:26.120 need to

00:35:26.480 stand up

00:35:26.980 and show

00:35:27.460 that they're

00:35:27.820 a grown-up

00:35:28.260 now and

00:35:28.720 say you're

00:35:29.020 not going

00:35:29.280 to take

00:35:29.580 it anymore

00:35:30.000 and you're

00:35:30.320 going to

00:35:30.460 stand up

00:35:30.840 to this

00:35:31.180 this garbage

00:35:32.120 because we

00:35:32.940 are undermining

00:35:33.700 our entire

00:35:34.360 economic system

00:35:35.480 right now

00:35:35.920 it's it's

00:35:37.080 we're in

00:35:37.380 very very

00:35:38.040 dangerous

00:35:38.540 territory

00:35:39.040 and

00:35:40.020 I

00:35:41.600 I really

00:35:42.280 believe that

00:35:43.380 we need

00:35:43.720 to stand

00:35:44.120 and fight

00:35:44.540 but if it

00:35:45.060 does go

00:35:45.700 then I

00:35:46.220 guess a lot

00:35:46.660 of people

00:35:46.940 are going

00:35:47.160 to be

00:35:47.340 leaving

00:35:47.600 and that's

00:35:48.220 what's

00:35:48.380 going to

00:35:48.580 happen

00:35:48.780 and I

00:35:49.020 do have

00:35:49.340 a friend

00:35:49.660 who's a

00:35:49.960 tax lawyer

00:35:50.520 and I

00:35:51.200 say to

00:35:51.500 him

00:35:51.620 what are

00:35:51.940 you working

00:35:52.280 on these

00:35:52.640 days

00:35:52.880 he's at

00:35:53.240 one of

00:35:53.440 the top

00:35:53.780 tax firms

00:35:54.360 in Vancouver

00:35:54.900 I said

00:35:56.540 are you

00:35:56.700 doing a lot

00:35:57.120 of plans

00:35:57.580 he goes

00:35:58.180 all day

00:35:58.600 every day

00:35:59.040 people leaving

00:36:00.020 they're heading

00:36:00.780 down to

00:36:01.500 Texas

00:36:02.480 Arizona

00:36:03.020 and Florida

00:36:03.520 and they're

00:36:04.340 going to

00:36:04.700 Alberta

00:36:05.040 some people

00:36:05.560 go to

00:36:05.800 Alberta

00:36:06.040 first

00:36:06.360 and then

00:36:06.620 leave

00:36:06.860 because the

00:36:07.500 the deal

00:36:08.000 to get

00:36:08.300 your money

00:36:08.600 out of

00:36:08.860 Canada

00:36:09.120 is better

00:36:09.500 if you

00:36:09.780 live in

00:36:10.040 Alberta

00:36:10.300 for a

00:36:10.640 while

00:36:10.840 and so

00:36:11.540 you have

00:36:11.940 to go

00:36:12.400 and you

00:36:13.000 have to

00:36:13.300 sever

00:36:13.620 all ties

00:36:14.040 here

00:36:14.260 and go

00:36:14.580 but people

00:36:15.260 are now

00:36:15.600 considering

00:36:16.060 it to

00:36:16.340 be so

00:36:16.740 lousy

00:36:17.140 here

00:36:17.400 they see

00:36:18.000 no future

00:36:18.500 for their

00:36:18.880 kids

00:36:19.220 they're going

00:36:20.060 and this

00:36:20.620 is heartbreaking

00:36:21.140 because most

00:36:21.620 people I

00:36:22.080 don't want

00:36:22.360 to leave

00:36:22.700 I love

00:36:23.280 I love

00:36:24.180 this province

00:36:25.360 and I

00:36:26.500 feel very

00:36:27.740 sad about

00:36:28.220 what's

00:36:28.440 happening

00:36:28.760 and I

00:36:30.120 don't know

00:36:30.340 if that

00:36:30.580 really answers

00:36:31.040 your question

00:36:31.580 why but

00:36:32.100 it is

00:36:32.920 happening

00:36:33.320 that people

00:36:34.300 are leaving

00:36:34.740 no that's

00:36:35.800 perfect

00:36:36.080 I wanted

00:36:36.480 to move

00:36:36.860 on now

00:36:37.360 to because

00:36:38.040 Bruce brought

00:36:38.720 it up

00:36:39.040 to specifically

00:36:39.860 the issue

00:36:40.840 of Alberta

00:36:41.540 because of

00:36:42.080 course there

00:36:42.500 is an

00:36:42.780 Alberta

00:36:43.080 independence

00:36:43.720 movement

00:36:44.280 going on

00:36:45.220 right now

00:36:45.740 and one

00:36:47.280 I guess

00:36:47.780 I'm going

00:36:48.100 to combine

00:36:49.020 two topics

00:36:49.940 here

00:36:50.200 one

00:36:50.540 maybe your

00:36:51.260 thoughts

00:36:51.560 Bruce

00:36:51.880 on section

00:36:53.100 35

00:36:53.800 of the

00:36:54.700 Canadian

00:36:55.060 constitution

00:36:55.740 whether you

00:36:56.700 think that

00:36:57.080 needs to be

00:36:57.640 fully repealed

00:36:58.760 gotten rid

00:36:59.360 of and do you

00:37:00.120 think that's

00:37:00.540 been a big

00:37:01.140 motivator

00:37:01.820 to the

00:37:02.680 independence

00:37:03.060 movement

00:37:03.360 I actually

00:37:03.980 remember

00:37:04.600 watching

00:37:05.120 something

00:37:05.540 where you

00:37:06.320 were actually

00:37:06.720 in a bit

00:37:07.440 of I'm

00:37:07.660 not trying

00:37:07.900 to bring

00:37:08.080 up Alberta

00:37:09.220 independence

00:37:09.820 drama here

00:37:10.440 obviously you're

00:37:11.640 out in

00:37:11.820 Ontario

00:37:12.180 but you

00:37:12.620 had a

00:37:13.540 disagreement

00:37:14.260 with one

00:37:14.960 of the

00:37:15.260 pro-independence

00:37:17.360 leaders

00:37:17.680 because they

00:37:18.100 had been

00:37:18.580 advocating

00:37:19.500 that in

00:37:20.480 a new

00:37:21.120 independent

00:37:21.740 Alberta

00:37:22.280 whether that

00:37:22.860 happens or

00:37:23.340 not

00:37:23.580 that well

00:37:25.200 we could

00:37:25.780 actually make

00:37:26.220 an even

00:37:26.500 better deal

00:37:27.160 with the

00:37:27.520 First Nations

00:37:28.040 and they

00:37:28.380 would actually

00:37:28.840 get even

00:37:29.380 more benefits

00:37:30.340 because now

00:37:31.100 Alberta is so

00:37:31.700 much more

00:37:32.020 prosperous

00:37:32.420 and you

00:37:33.260 had taken

00:37:33.600 the position

00:37:34.140 of saying

00:37:34.780 well no

00:37:35.500 what's the

00:37:36.520 point of

00:37:37.400 even separating

00:37:38.220 if you're

00:37:38.880 just going

00:37:39.180 to go back

00:37:39.600 to the

00:37:39.860 same

00:37:40.100 bad

00:37:40.480 system

00:37:40.880 in

00:37:42.340 oh my

00:37:43.260 goodness

00:37:43.440 I'm losing

00:37:43.680 my voice

00:37:44.040 in the

00:37:44.200 middle of

00:37:44.340 this question

00:37:44.620 but the

00:37:45.300 same bad

00:37:45.760 system

00:37:46.080 in regards

00:37:46.740 to First

00:37:47.780 Nations

00:37:48.260 Canadian

00:37:48.860 relations

00:37:49.840 right

00:37:51.440 yes

00:37:52.060 so for

00:37:53.060 my money

00:37:53.460 one of the

00:37:54.080 reasons for

00:37:54.660 Alberta to

00:37:55.160 separate

00:37:55.620 is to

00:37:57.020 I've been

00:37:57.760 putting it

00:37:58.060 this way

00:37:58.440 Alberta

00:38:00.340 needs to

00:38:00.840 escape

00:38:01.280 the Canada

00:38:02.200 that is

00:38:02.600 outside

00:38:02.940 Alberta

00:38:03.300 but it

00:38:04.560 also needs

00:38:05.100 to purge

00:38:05.820 the Canada

00:38:06.440 that is

00:38:06.820 inside

00:38:07.160 Alberta

00:38:07.460 and there's

00:38:07.980 a lot of

00:38:08.360 Canada

00:38:08.620 inside

00:38:09.020 Alberta

00:38:09.360 the point

00:38:11.520 is to

00:38:11.900 try and

00:38:12.240 make a

00:38:12.500 fresh start

00:38:13.060 and to

00:38:13.400 fix the

00:38:14.160 errors

00:38:14.860 that have

00:38:15.800 been made

00:38:16.220 in this

00:38:16.760 country

00:38:17.040 in Canada

00:38:17.520 and there

00:38:18.180 are a lot

00:38:18.620 of errors

00:38:19.060 and Section

00:38:19.560 35 is

00:38:20.140 one of

00:38:20.420 them

00:38:20.560 just to

00:38:21.160 put this

00:38:21.540 property

00:38:21.960 issue in

00:38:22.680 context

00:38:23.120 in the

00:38:23.360 constitutional

00:38:23.800 context

00:38:24.340 so we

00:38:25.780 suffer from

00:38:26.400 two things

00:38:27.240 in our

00:38:27.700 constitution

00:38:28.180 number one

00:38:28.840 is the

00:38:29.460 fact that

00:38:29.900 there are

00:38:30.200 no property

00:38:30.780 rights of

00:38:31.160 any kind

00:38:31.640 in the

00:38:32.400 charter

00:38:32.600 there's

00:38:33.160 no

00:38:33.480 recognition

00:38:34.000 of property

00:38:34.560 as a

00:38:34.840 constitutional

00:38:35.280 right

00:38:35.620 combined

00:38:36.460 with

00:38:37.060 the existence

00:38:38.040 of Section

00:38:38.420 35

00:38:38.780 which

00:38:39.820 entrenches

00:38:40.480 aboriginal

00:38:41.480 and treaty

00:38:41.820 rights

00:38:42.120 and now

00:38:43.140 as they

00:38:44.040 existed in

00:38:44.620 1982

00:38:45.020 but that's

00:38:45.680 not the way

00:38:46.060 the courts

00:38:46.500 have approached

00:38:47.100 it

00:38:47.300 they have

00:38:48.200 taken that

00:38:49.200 section

00:38:49.620 since 1982

00:38:50.480 and discovered

00:38:52.060 and evolved

00:38:52.820 and championed

00:38:54.560 aboriginal and

00:38:55.380 treaty rights

00:38:55.920 since that time

00:38:56.740 so that their

00:38:57.440 meaning is now

00:38:58.160 different than

00:38:58.660 they were in

00:38:59.160 1982

00:38:59.560 so the

00:39:00.700 combination

00:39:01.100 there

00:39:01.460 you know

00:39:02.160 invites the

00:39:02.880 kind of

00:39:03.180 trouble that

00:39:03.680 is now being

00:39:04.440 experienced in

00:39:05.040 British Columbia

00:39:05.500 but it's not

00:39:06.060 just British Columbia

00:39:07.060 all kinds

00:39:08.120 of areas

00:39:08.700 in this

00:39:09.020 country

00:39:09.300 are susceptible

00:39:09.800 to

00:39:10.420 aboriginal

00:39:11.060 title claims

00:39:11.780 and treaty

00:39:12.400 claims of

00:39:12.940 various different

00:39:13.580 kinds

00:39:13.880 and that's

00:39:14.420 happening

00:39:14.720 in various

00:39:15.400 places across

00:39:15.960 the country

00:39:16.340 the root

00:39:18.500 problem

00:39:19.000 in my view

00:39:19.800 is the

00:39:21.280 very deeply

00:39:22.040 entrenched

00:39:22.620 idea

00:39:23.340 that aboriginal

00:39:25.780 people

00:39:26.520 are different

00:39:27.900 peoples

00:39:28.560 that idea

00:39:30.900 is untenable

00:39:31.820 if you think

00:39:32.580 that you live

00:39:33.280 in a free

00:39:33.700 country

00:39:34.040 you cannot

00:39:36.300 treat people

00:39:37.080 differently

00:39:37.480 based upon

00:39:38.080 their lineage

00:39:39.020 or their

00:39:39.380 background

00:39:39.820 or their

00:39:40.200 group

00:39:40.480 or their

00:39:40.840 race

00:39:41.240 if you go

00:39:42.100 down that

00:39:42.560 road

00:39:42.800 then you

00:39:43.160 now have

00:39:43.860 authorized

00:39:44.420 the state

00:39:45.100 to make

00:39:45.460 different

00:39:45.860 rules for

00:39:46.320 different

00:39:46.600 people

00:39:46.920 and it

00:39:47.600 can choose

00:39:48.180 to punish

00:39:49.140 your group

00:39:49.660 or reward

00:39:50.320 your group

00:39:50.720 based upon

00:39:51.380 something that

00:39:52.260 you had

00:39:52.500 nothing to

00:39:52.980 do with

00:39:53.300 everybody

00:39:55.000 needs to be

00:39:55.800 treated as an

00:39:56.280 individual

00:39:56.640 so in

00:39:57.140 discussions

00:39:57.600 about these

00:39:58.220 topics

00:39:58.580 it's very

00:40:00.060 difficult to

00:40:00.940 talk about

00:40:02.100 them without

00:40:02.440 making this

00:40:02.940 error

00:40:03.180 like you

00:40:03.640 talk about

00:40:04.180 aboriginal

00:40:04.520 people

00:40:04.900 well you've

00:40:05.620 already made

00:40:05.980 the mistake

00:40:06.400 those aboriginal

00:40:07.840 people are

00:40:08.440 individuals

00:40:08.960 they deserve

00:40:09.780 to be treated

00:40:10.260 as individuals

00:40:11.160 that are unique

00:40:11.940 in and of

00:40:12.740 themselves

00:40:13.160 not because

00:40:13.880 of their

00:40:14.120 aboriginal

00:40:14.460 identity

00:40:14.880 but in spite

00:40:15.860 of it

00:40:16.140 all of us

00:40:17.280 have identities

00:40:17.840 and the law

00:40:19.120 if we're going

00:40:19.740 to go by

00:40:20.640 that you know

00:40:21.280 very important

00:40:22.080 western principle

00:40:22.900 western you know

00:40:23.840 civilizational

00:40:24.580 principle

00:40:24.940 that justice

00:40:26.240 is blind

00:40:27.060 that is

00:40:27.900 the law

00:40:28.720 is not supposed

00:40:29.540 to take

00:40:29.960 account of

00:40:30.960 who you are

00:40:31.640 whether you're

00:40:32.320 rich or poor

00:40:33.160 male or female

00:40:34.000 or young or

00:40:34.540 old or

00:40:35.080 straight or

00:40:35.840 gay or

00:40:36.540 for that

00:40:37.180 matter

00:40:37.460 aboriginal

00:40:38.220 or not

00:40:38.660 but we

00:40:39.980 have entrenched

00:40:40.660 the idea

00:40:41.160 it's going to

00:40:41.420 be very

00:40:41.820 difficult to

00:40:42.340 get away

00:40:42.680 from in

00:40:43.140 any way

00:40:43.660 you know

00:40:44.520 to reform

00:40:45.140 how canada

00:40:46.520 works because

00:40:46.940 it's so

00:40:47.400 deeply

00:40:47.740 embedded in

00:40:49.400 the constitution

00:40:50.020 and in the

00:40:50.700 psyche of

00:40:51.160 the canadian

00:40:51.800 culture

00:40:52.160 but alberta

00:40:53.340 might be able

00:40:54.880 to make a

00:40:55.380 fresh start

00:40:55.860 the problem

00:40:56.660 is as you

00:40:57.340 alluded to

00:40:57.880 there are

00:40:59.020 an awful

00:40:59.480 lot of

00:41:00.000 people in

00:41:00.580 Alberta

00:41:01.040 who think

00:41:02.380 that this

00:41:03.200 is the

00:41:03.520 natural

00:41:03.960 and necessary

00:41:04.520 order of

00:41:05.160 things

00:41:05.380 and if

00:41:06.400 you carry

00:41:07.120 on that

00:41:07.560 tradition

00:41:07.940 then you

00:41:09.520 know what's

00:41:10.540 the point

00:41:11.020 what's the

00:41:11.560 point of

00:41:12.620 escaping

00:41:13.400 if you're

00:41:14.240 not willing

00:41:14.720 to make

00:41:15.080 a fresh

00:41:15.420 start

00:41:15.720 and fix

00:41:16.400 all the

00:41:16.840 errors

00:41:17.180 and actually

00:41:18.720 that's

00:41:19.000 something

00:41:19.420 and I

00:41:19.920 still use

00:41:20.940 probably the

00:41:21.360 wrong

00:41:21.560 terminology

00:41:22.140 as we

00:41:22.500 go forward

00:41:23.080 but with

00:41:23.620 1BC

00:41:24.740 that one

00:41:25.340 of our

00:41:25.660 specific

00:41:26.280 almost

00:41:26.880 tagline

00:41:27.660 points

00:41:28.080 about

00:41:28.380 this

00:41:28.620 issue

00:41:28.920 was the

00:41:29.780 idea

00:41:30.100 that you

00:41:30.560 need

00:41:31.200 to bring

00:41:31.700 individualism

00:41:32.880 to

00:41:33.520 first nation

00:41:35.540 reserves

00:41:36.000 because the

00:41:36.480 problem

00:41:36.860 is that

00:41:37.460 they actually

00:41:38.000 are forced

00:41:38.860 to live

00:41:39.380 as collective

00:41:40.260 people

00:41:40.780 and then

00:41:41.620 we wonder

00:41:42.120 why

00:41:42.640 there's so much

00:41:43.680 poverty

00:41:44.220 this is the

00:41:45.660 key

00:41:46.120 this is the

00:41:47.220 key to the

00:41:47.720 whole thing

00:41:48.340 this is not

00:41:49.460 a contest

00:41:50.360 between

00:41:51.020 people who

00:41:52.420 are aboriginal

00:41:52.980 and people

00:41:53.380 who are not

00:41:53.940 this system

00:41:55.180 also acts

00:41:56.580 to the

00:41:56.900 detriment

00:41:57.240 of most

00:41:58.040 aboriginal

00:41:58.540 people

00:41:58.940 because they

00:41:59.500 are under

00:42:00.020 the thumb

00:42:00.660 of both

00:42:02.040 aboriginal

00:42:02.640 elites

00:42:03.180 and the

00:42:04.140 authorities

00:42:04.640 who work

00:42:05.080 in government

00:42:05.540 so those

00:42:06.540 are the two

00:42:06.940 groups

00:42:07.280 who are

00:42:08.260 advantaged

00:42:08.740 by this

00:42:09.180 the aboriginal

00:42:10.100 elites

00:42:10.640 who control

00:42:11.520 all the

00:42:11.900 largesse

00:42:12.420 and the

00:42:12.740 reserves

00:42:13.080 and the

00:42:13.580 claims

00:42:14.120 and so

00:42:14.460 on

00:42:14.640 and the

00:42:15.980 bureaucracies

00:42:16.700 and the

00:42:17.060 lawyers

00:42:17.420 and the

00:42:17.900 politicians

00:42:18.640 that are

00:42:19.080 all on the

00:42:19.780 same page

00:42:20.220 on this

00:42:20.520 those are

00:42:21.440 the two

00:42:21.820 groups

00:42:22.240 that insist

00:42:23.780 that the

00:42:24.560 status quo

00:42:25.180 must continue

00:42:25.940 it would be

00:42:26.900 to the advantage

00:42:27.480 of everybody

00:42:28.060 else

00:42:28.540 if we got

00:42:29.420 rid of it

00:42:29.860 and simply

00:42:30.460 started

00:42:30.980 treating each

00:42:32.120 other as

00:42:32.740 people

00:42:33.200 instead of

00:42:33.920 instead of

00:42:35.480 peoples

00:42:35.920 as Dallas

00:42:37.300 and 1BC

00:42:38.200 have been calling

00:42:38.800 it the

00:42:39.100 reconciliation

00:42:39.640 industry

00:42:40.460 and we had

00:42:41.000 a bunch

00:42:41.300 of people

00:42:41.840 interviewed

00:42:42.200 in Dallas

00:42:43.140 documentary

00:42:43.880 making a

00:42:44.880 killing

00:42:45.140 where you

00:42:45.960 talk to

00:42:46.580 indigenous

00:42:47.020 people who

00:42:47.600 live on

00:42:48.000 these reserves

00:42:48.720 and it's

00:42:49.640 like well

00:42:49.960 yeah the

00:42:50.360 money is

00:42:51.380 effectively

00:42:51.860 used as

00:42:52.860 both a

00:42:53.760 benefit as

00:42:54.440 well as a

00:42:54.900 weapon against

00:42:55.440 people that

00:42:55.900 you live

00:42:56.260 around

00:42:56.580 you don't

00:42:57.380 go along

00:42:57.980 with what

00:42:58.800 your chief

00:42:59.660 and council

00:43:00.420 want to

00:43:00.940 do you

00:43:01.340 may just

00:43:01.900 you know

00:43:02.440 not be able

00:43:02.940 to get

00:43:03.220 any of those

00:43:03.660 house repairs

00:43:04.220 done you

00:43:04.760 may not

00:43:05.140 actually have

00:43:05.760 your checks

00:43:06.240 come to you

00:43:06.780 in the mail

00:43:07.260 and whatnot

00:43:07.680 and we

00:43:08.740 we had

00:43:09.220 done this

00:43:09.520 math in

00:43:10.200 the last

00:43:10.660 video that

00:43:11.120 Dallas and

00:43:11.560 I did

00:43:11.840 together

00:43:12.180 but if

00:43:13.160 you look

00:43:13.680 at a lot

00:43:14.680 of these

00:43:14.900 reserves

00:43:15.300 where it's

00:43:15.700 only 650

00:43:17.160 700 people

00:43:18.300 living on

00:43:18.880 reserve

00:43:19.180 but they

00:43:19.960 have a

00:43:20.260 budget a

00:43:20.740 yearly budget

00:43:21.460 of 25

00:43:23.180 million dollars

00:43:24.820 and I was

00:43:25.580 we were going

00:43:26.200 through it

00:43:26.500 it's like

00:43:26.740 35,700

00:43:28.280 per person

00:43:29.520 even if you

00:43:30.400 took maybe

00:43:30.900 1200 a

00:43:31.720 person or

00:43:32.120 2000 a

00:43:32.740 person and

00:43:33.340 gave it to

00:43:33.720 the count to

00:43:34.600 like an

00:43:35.140 accountant and

00:43:35.880 a small

00:43:36.400 you know

00:43:36.980 regulatory

00:43:37.740 body or

00:43:38.540 small like

00:43:39.180 administrative

00:43:40.460 body everyone

00:43:41.800 could be like

00:43:42.580 doing way

00:43:43.220 better and

00:43:44.120 yet it seems

00:43:44.820 as if the

00:43:45.280 whole system

00:43:45.720 is set up

00:43:46.320 to turn

00:43:47.160 the people

00:43:48.480 on reserves

00:43:49.160 into what

00:43:49.780 I've sometimes

00:43:50.360 called poverty

00:43:51.240 props is that

00:43:52.320 we need this

00:43:53.140 guy to actually

00:43:53.980 remain poor

00:43:54.760 we need the

00:43:55.380 community to

00:43:56.040 remain hard

00:43:57.180 done because

00:43:57.980 then we can't

00:43:58.820 really ask for

00:43:59.720 any more it

00:44:00.500 actually undermines

00:44:01.560 you in land

00:44:02.680 deal negotiations

00:44:03.860 if you can't

00:44:04.540 point over there

00:44:05.120 and say well

00:44:05.500 look at that

00:44:05.980 guy over there

00:44:06.680 that's why

00:44:07.360 you need to

00:44:07.760 sign the

00:44:08.100 paper and

00:44:08.560 that's where

00:44:08.960 it goes back

00:44:09.900 to things

00:44:10.340 as you know

00:44:11.860 it seems

00:44:12.380 really silly

00:44:13.120 because of how

00:44:13.620 obviously not

00:44:14.340 true it is but

00:44:14.940 this is where

00:44:15.600 we then go

00:44:16.280 into the

00:44:16.600 Kamloops

00:44:17.020 Indian

00:44:17.640 residential

00:44:18.100 school claim

00:44:18.820 because you

00:44:19.420 need that in

00:44:20.060 order to

00:44:20.580 almost kind of

00:44:21.160 grease the

00:44:21.580 wheels into

00:44:22.140 getting a new

00:44:23.080 deal signed

00:44:23.780 but so what

00:44:25.180 would you say

00:44:25.800 would be the

00:44:26.520 ideal setup

00:44:27.860 for an

00:44:28.880 independent

00:44:29.380 Alberta and

00:44:30.000 then I want

00:44:30.340 to jump over

00:44:30.940 to Dallas to

00:44:31.720 kind of ask

00:44:32.660 the same

00:44:33.440 question not

00:44:34.000 maybe an

00:44:34.400 independent BC but

00:44:35.380 like the best

00:44:36.080 legal infrastructure

00:44:38.120 that you could

00:44:38.760 imagine but

00:44:39.760 yeah Bruce

00:44:40.220 I think the

00:44:42.020 basics are very

00:44:42.680 simple which is

00:44:43.760 that everybody is

00:44:44.640 an individual and

00:44:45.520 the same laws

00:44:47.220 when standards

00:44:48.060 apply to everybody

00:44:48.900 with that regard to

00:44:49.740 what your background

00:44:50.300 is and who your

00:44:50.960 parents are and

00:44:51.780 you know what

00:44:52.460 your group is and

00:44:53.300 and so on you

00:44:54.020 do away with

00:44:55.160 that system

00:44:56.040 and in the

00:44:57.260 transition I've

00:44:58.280 suggested that

00:44:59.740 in Alberta if

00:45:01.060 Alberta became

00:45:01.740 independent that

00:45:02.460 one option

00:45:03.140 would be to

00:45:03.900 take the

00:45:05.100 reserve lands

00:45:06.400 upon which

00:45:07.040 these groups

00:45:07.480 live and

00:45:08.280 divide them

00:45:09.100 up into

00:45:09.400 lots and

00:45:10.700 then give

00:45:11.840 fee simple

00:45:12.600 title to

00:45:13.520 one lot to

00:45:14.200 each person

00:45:15.120 who belongs

00:45:16.200 to the group

00:45:16.600 and so they

00:45:17.180 have their

00:45:17.620 own property

00:45:18.160 which they

00:45:18.500 do not have

00:45:19.120 now they

00:45:19.820 do not have

00:45:20.840 their own

00:45:21.220 property now

00:45:21.820 they are

00:45:22.260 manipulated and

00:45:23.620 governed as

00:45:24.160 you alluded

00:45:25.180 to Wyatt by

00:45:26.320 the chief and

00:45:28.820 the council who

00:45:29.440 control the

00:45:30.020 territory if

00:45:30.920 they had their

00:45:31.340 own land then

00:45:32.460 they can do

00:45:32.880 with it what

00:45:33.760 everybody else

00:45:34.380 can do with

00:45:34.800 their land they

00:45:35.280 can make their

00:45:35.620 own choices they

00:45:36.360 can mortgage it

00:45:36.940 they can lease

00:45:37.400 it they can

00:45:37.740 improve it they

00:45:38.240 can sell it they

00:45:38.780 can do whatever

00:45:39.200 they want and

00:45:40.400 on that basis

00:45:41.440 they will be

00:45:41.980 equal to in

00:45:43.340 legal terms equal

00:45:44.540 to everybody else

00:45:46.100 in the province

00:45:46.540 and they would

00:45:46.980 simply be a

00:45:47.900 citizen of

00:45:48.640 Alberta I've

00:45:49.680 written a draft

00:45:50.580 constitution for

00:45:51.580 what I would like

00:45:52.400 to see in a new

00:45:53.700 and independent

00:45:54.160 Alberta it's out

00:45:55.600 there for anybody

00:45:56.140 to look at if

00:45:56.760 they want it

00:45:57.360 incorporates that

00:45:58.880 kind of idea so

00:46:00.400 that Alberta can

00:46:01.660 start again with

00:46:02.360 a fresh slate in

00:46:03.360 an actually

00:46:04.040 genuinely free

00:46:05.600 country I want

00:46:07.560 to just can I

00:46:08.040 just comment on

00:46:08.620 that really

00:46:08.940 quickly because

00:46:09.580 this is so true

00:46:10.700 like I think

00:46:11.720 that there's been

00:46:12.200 this view that

00:46:12.740 oh they can't

00:46:13.620 let their native

00:46:14.440 people the chiefs

00:46:15.420 would say we

00:46:15.740 can't let them

00:46:16.280 have their own

00:46:16.720 land because

00:46:17.200 they'll lose it

00:46:17.780 all I thought

00:46:18.880 to myself well

00:46:19.740 that's what all

00:46:20.940 of us in life

00:46:21.660 are subjected to

00:46:22.520 either you're a

00:46:23.200 fool with your

00:46:23.700 money or you're

00:46:24.640 not there are

00:46:25.660 people who I

00:46:27.080 say to my

00:46:27.760 daughters you can

00:46:28.460 either grow it

00:46:29.160 or you can blow

00:46:30.140 it okay it's

00:46:31.580 going to be your

00:46:32.340 your agency to

00:46:34.200 decide you know

00:46:35.600 if your parents

00:46:36.580 give you some

00:46:37.820 money they give

00:46:38.900 it evenly to the

00:46:39.780 daughters it's

00:46:40.780 like one of you

00:46:41.760 may prosper one

00:46:42.660 of you may ruin

00:46:43.300 it but that's

00:46:43.880 called individual

00:46:45.400 agency and you

00:46:47.680 have to decide

00:46:48.420 what kind of life

00:46:49.420 you're going to

00:46:50.040 lead each of us

00:46:51.180 is the author of

00:46:51.820 our lives it's up

00:46:53.060 to us to decide

00:46:53.880 if we're going to

00:46:54.320 be a winner or

00:46:55.020 a loser if we're

00:46:56.500 going to be reckless

00:46:57.200 or careful these

00:46:58.480 are decisions we

00:46:59.100 make every day even

00:47:00.100 based on how we

00:47:00.940 drive our car so I

00:47:03.160 really and I want

00:47:04.120 to also say I have

00:47:06.960 now become like the

00:47:09.400 hotline for

00:47:10.520 complaints of people

00:47:11.540 living on reserves

00:47:12.420 around this province

00:47:13.400 I get calls now from

00:47:15.720 people who I'm

00:47:16.380 noticing actually are

00:47:17.340 people who are sort

00:47:18.240 of around my age born

00:47:19.300 in the 60s who have

00:47:20.620 lived this now as

00:47:21.640 grown-ups for the

00:47:22.320 last 40 years and

00:47:23.280 they're done and

00:47:24.240 they're finally saying

00:47:24.980 we've been watching

00:47:25.880 this unaccountability

00:47:26.980 and the abuse the

00:47:28.280 punishment we receive

00:47:29.360 for putting our head

00:47:30.980 up and asking some

00:47:32.080 questions they are

00:47:32.820 just strafed quickly

00:47:34.540 ruined destroyed

00:47:36.100 bullets through their

00:47:36.960 window hot water

00:47:38.320 shut off renovations

00:47:41.440 not done on their

00:47:42.180 place just vicious

00:47:44.260 retaliation for even

00:47:45.720 the slightest question

00:47:46.900 that you ask of your

00:47:47.640 chief and counsel and

00:47:48.940 these people are now

00:47:50.000 saying I've sort of

00:47:51.180 made it through life

00:47:51.880 I'm old enough I

00:47:52.680 think I can take the

00:47:53.500 heat now and it is a

00:47:54.940 astounding how many

00:47:56.780 of these people are

00:47:57.460 approaching me now and

00:47:58.500 I feel heartbroken

00:48:00.140 because this has now

00:48:01.220 gone on their whole

00:48:02.000 lives and I just can't

00:48:07.280 stand this because I've

00:48:07.960 watched things were

00:48:08.620 actually better for

00:48:09.460 Native people when I

00:48:10.160 was growing up back in

00:48:10.920 the 70s they were

00:48:12.980 having things there

00:48:14.080 was no there wasn't

00:48:14.840 this hostility first of

00:48:15.960 all the backlash is

00:48:17.240 real people are angry

00:48:18.280 and they're angry at

00:48:19.300 Native people now but

00:48:20.440 it's not the Native

00:48:21.100 people the Native

00:48:22.580 people are great really

00:48:24.000 nice people and they

00:48:24.960 really want they're

00:48:25.960 embarrassed about one

00:48:27.260 group was telling me

00:48:28.240 they're embarrassed what

00:48:29.160 goes on in their

00:48:29.820 reserve they're actually

00:48:30.700 afraid to tell people

00:48:31.740 how incredibly corrupt

00:48:34.200 it is because he says

00:48:35.340 it makes us all look

00:48:36.140 like fools and we're

00:48:37.600 not it's just that we

00:48:39.260 get penalized so

00:48:40.380 brutally if we if we

00:48:42.100 say anything and so

00:48:43.540 this has got to stop

00:48:44.620 and you know we've got

00:48:46.460 our big thing going out

00:48:47.400 to UBC tomorrow and

00:48:48.620 you know all of UBC has

00:48:50.180 decided that Dallas

00:48:51.020 Brody they've actually

00:48:53.060 changed all the banners

00:48:54.260 on the on the light

00:48:56.120 posts at UBC to attack

00:48:58.460 me Francis Widowson and

00:49:00.180 Jim McMurtry and and

00:49:01.520 it's like wow what's that

00:49:02.840 expression me thinks thou

00:49:05.220 doth protest too much

00:49:06.560 what are you worried

00:49:07.620 about I'm the small

00:49:09.740 person I'm one person in

00:49:11.400 the legislature of 93

00:49:12.780 people one and you can't

00:49:15.780 tolerate anyone singing

00:49:17.580 from a different hymn

00:49:19.120 book I'm I'm I'm saying

00:49:21.800 I don't know I don't I

00:49:24.000 don't buy into any of

00:49:24.820 the stuff I'm hearing and

00:49:25.780 they can't even tolerate

00:49:26.820 one person disagreeing I

00:49:28.760 mean this is outrageous so

00:49:30.480 anyway that's going to be

00:49:31.740 a fire tomorrow at UBC I'll

00:49:33.640 tell you that much because

00:49:34.480 I'm not backing down

00:49:35.420 just in terms of a clear

00:49:37.240 answer on this because I

00:49:38.180 assume it's simple and we

00:49:39.460 can probably move on to the

00:49:40.360 from this in like a second

00:49:41.700 but you obviously support

00:49:43.900 repealing drip getting rid

00:49:45.900 of the what what was it

00:49:47.900 the section 8.1 or

00:49:50.520 whatever of the

00:49:51.440 interpretations act and

00:49:53.420 yeah I think a lot of

00:49:54.520 this too probably goes back

00:49:55.820 to just needing to even

00:49:56.860 from the financial side

00:49:57.940 defund a lot of the

00:49:59.840 reconciliation industry

00:50:01.240 nonprofits and front

00:50:02.660 groups and whatnot because

00:50:03.680 they're oftentimes helping

00:50:05.120 push forward a lot of

00:50:06.300 these legal challenges and

00:50:07.780 I think that that one

00:50:08.740 makes that kind of is

00:50:10.120 leading me to my next

00:50:10.980 topic and that is to the

00:50:12.900 pipeline that Prime

00:50:15.280 Minister Mark Carney is

00:50:16.340 supposedly in favor of

00:50:17.700 building but based on the

00:50:20.020 groups he keeps talking to

00:50:21.240 like the coastal first

00:50:22.320 nations is it that maybe

00:50:25.240 you have a perspective on

00:50:26.120 this Bruce is it that he is

00:50:28.620 just basically only talking

00:50:30.340 to groups he knows he's

00:50:31.440 going to be told no from in

00:50:33.040 order to give an excuse not

00:50:34.000 to build it or is it because

00:50:35.380 of the federal government

00:50:37.200 actually also sort of

00:50:38.920 adopting UNDRIP that is

00:50:41.340 this actually one of those

00:50:42.280 things where he almost has

00:50:43.220 to go through all this or

00:50:44.320 a pipeline could get shut

00:50:45.400 down even if he was even

00:50:46.700 serious about building it in

00:50:47.720 the first place

00:50:48.280 well yes but so let's let's

00:50:56.500 let's take it all let's take

00:50:58.260 the broad view of this so the

00:50:59.920 first problem is that it

00:51:04.420 turns out that in Canada the

00:51:07.240 question about whether a

00:51:09.280 pipeline is going to be built

00:51:10.640 is a political question not an

00:51:14.160 economic question it's

00:51:15.840 supposed to be an economic

00:51:16.780 question it's supposed to be a

00:51:19.180 question that governments are

00:51:20.480 not supposed to answer they're

00:51:22.140 supposed to have you know laws

00:51:23.480 and rules in place that's that's

00:51:24.920 fine but decisions about whether

00:51:27.360 to build a pipeline are supposed

00:51:29.480 to be decided by the parties who

00:51:32.000 want to build the pipeline with

00:51:33.300 their own private money to invest

00:51:35.240 in a project that's going to make

00:51:37.480 money in accordance with the rules

00:51:39.380 laid out by governments what

00:51:41.180 happens instead in this country

00:51:42.680 is the governments get together

00:51:44.920 and decide you know what the

00:51:46.500 nation building projects are going

00:51:48.260 to be and they make a list of

00:51:49.760 favored things that are going to

00:51:51.440 occur maybe depending upon whether

00:51:53.240 or not the the political

00:51:55.200 conversation turns out all right

00:51:56.900 this is no way to run a country and

00:52:00.440 the objection is yes it's all the

00:52:03.080 things that you mentioned that you

00:52:04.240 know he's talking to the wrong

00:52:05.060 groups and he's giving people

00:52:06.820 status to block projects that they

00:52:09.060 shouldn't have and so on all those

00:52:10.600 things those things are valid but

00:52:12.020 the basic objection ought to be why

00:52:14.920 are you involved in this yeah this

00:52:17.720 is the Canadian way of doing things

00:52:19.300 it's become that way and everybody

00:52:21.360 thinks this is normal but it is not

00:52:24.320 the way a country with a free market

00:52:26.440 economy works this is much closer to

00:52:29.160 the way the Soviet Union used to work

00:52:31.040 like let's make a five-year plan

00:52:33.260 people all together and then the

00:52:35.260 government will will give its blessing

00:52:36.660 to these projects and then we'll

00:52:38.240 proceed but only then okay this is

00:52:40.960 this is not the kind of country

00:52:42.760 people have in their heads this has

00:52:44.840 become a managerial place when I asked

00:52:47.640 whether or not these were the right

00:52:48.940 groups to speak to or not I was

00:52:50.760 genuinely asking because based on the

00:52:53.260 way consultations work it feels like

00:52:55.140 well technically you know five

00:52:57.840 indigenous people or even four non-

00:52:59.580 indigenous people and one indigenous

00:53:01.220 person could get together create a

00:53:03.820 group and that they may be like the

00:53:06.840 federal government or some entity may

00:53:08.860 be obligated to speak to them because

00:53:10.120 I'm thinking back to the whole

00:53:11.900 situation with the what was it the

00:53:13.900 it was the what was it Trans Mountain

00:53:16.880 whatever the link pipeline with the

00:53:19.000 Wet'suwet'en where that was a case

00:53:21.280 where the band actually fully agreed to

00:53:23.300 it it was kind of a shock and then like

00:53:25.880 out of nowhere people just walk out of

00:53:27.640 the woods and they're like well we're

00:53:28.840 hereditary chiefs and now you have to

00:53:30.440 talk to us too and the government took

00:53:32.580 that seriously and I was thinking in a

00:53:35.320 court would they tech would that

00:53:36.800 actually technically hold that these

00:53:38.760 people could declare that you talk to

00:53:40.280 the wrong people and you actually have

00:53:41.240 to talk to us and would the court then

00:53:43.140 at least be backed up for years

00:53:44.760 determining whether or not that's

00:53:46.100 legitimate well that's part of the

00:53:47.920 story yes is this all these things

00:53:49.740 take a long time right and you'd and

00:53:51.580 you know Supreme Court of Canada has

00:53:52.980 told us that there's a duty of

00:53:54.320 consultation but if you if you read the

00:53:56.760 decisions on that matter it's like

00:53:58.860 you're not exactly clear exactly what

00:54:00.500 it is you have to do and with whom

00:54:02.340 right and so as with the the Richmond

00:54:05.720 claim in the Cowichan case you're you're

00:54:07.900 subject to you know oral evidence about

00:54:10.900 you know who is who and what status

00:54:13.240 they have and what happened in the past

00:54:15.180 and what was the territory so if you are

00:54:17.800 a proponent of one of these kinds of

00:54:20.140 projects potentially you're going to look

00:54:22.720 at that whole landscape and think you

00:54:24.180 know what I don't want to touch this this

00:54:26.280 is so uncertain that it'll take so long

00:54:28.780 and it'll sap all our resources just

00:54:30.640 getting approvals let's go somewhere

00:54:33.200 else and and and that's what happened

00:54:35.440 that's what's happening and one more

00:54:37.140 dumb question does land ownership work

00:54:40.580 this way in any other country on the

00:54:42.560 planet oh my I'm not sure that I can

00:54:44.880 answer that question it's very broad

00:54:46.660 there there are similar kinds of

00:54:49.040 problems in other places like well the

00:54:51.260 situation is very different of course but

00:54:53.260 there is sort of tension in the

00:54:57.000 relationship between you know at least

00:54:59.380 two peoples as treated in the law in

00:55:02.540 places like New Zealand for example they

00:55:04.640 they have a much different situation but

00:55:06.640 the Treaty of Waitangi which is you know

00:55:09.040 covers the whole place but but there's a

00:55:11.600 question about what it means to be

00:55:13.860 Maori or not Maori and you know what

00:55:16.160 what rights and settlements that carries

00:55:17.740 and so on so you have a different but

00:55:20.280 similar set of issues and problems okay

00:55:24.060 fair enough and so I guess maybe we're

00:55:27.920 kind of we're kind of slowly wrapping up

00:55:30.260 here but I wanted to maybe have another

00:55:31.960 question to Dallas because although we

00:55:34.800 see in Alberta when it comes to pro

00:55:38.140 independence polling you can find

00:55:40.060 polling that is as low as 19 percent in

00:55:43.740 terms of being in favor up to I've seen

00:55:45.780 42 or 45 or so which means depending on

00:55:49.140 what's more realistic depending on if it's

00:55:51.540 a really good campaign that the pro

00:55:53.300 independent side puts on they could win

00:55:55.080 or they could not but that's not neither

00:55:57.320 here nor there but it's interesting even

00:55:59.780 in British Columbia which obviously

00:56:01.820 there's not a lot of independent support

00:56:03.800 that's widespread you're not going to get

00:56:05.340 anyone like wanting Western separatism in

00:56:08.380 downtown Vancouver but the in a large

00:56:11.600 sloths of the interior you're actually

00:56:13.460 having entire counties or entire like

00:56:16.300 riding areas who probably if you stuck

00:56:19.100 them to a referendum that it's less that

00:56:21.960 they're even trying to escape Canada

00:56:23.520 they're more so just trying to escape

00:56:25.060 British Columbia and they would they

00:56:26.380 would probably vote in a referendum

00:56:27.860 locally to just join just graft themselves

00:56:30.140 onto the side of Alberta and have you had a

00:56:32.720 lot of that kind of coming to you in your

00:56:34.540 mailbox where people are saying like you

00:56:36.800 know why do I why do we even have to be in

00:56:38.820 this province well the mood the mood is

00:56:41.040 there for sure and last June after I had

00:56:44.680 been expelled from the Conservative Party

00:56:46.440 I went and spoke in Red Deer and at that

00:56:48.280 time I spoke about this as well for a

00:56:50.400 rebel news event and apparently a poll

00:56:52.840 that was taken last spring with no

00:56:55.820 boosting no public discussion about it

00:56:58.240 basically said that between 28 and 30

00:57:00.760 percent of the population of BC would

00:57:03.380 support independence and I was stunned by

00:57:05.460 this because really it's never been like

00:57:07.620 in Quebec independence has always been

00:57:09.220 discussed and I think it's been a bigger

00:57:11.560 topic even in Alberta particularly you

00:57:14.000 know because they're a very lively

00:57:15.280 political group but here that was a big

00:57:18.940 number and even if you drop that down to

00:57:20.600 20 percent that's with no boosting with

00:57:23.420 no public discussion and people actually

00:57:25.220 thinking wow is that a product I could buy

00:57:27.540 is that available is that on the table

00:57:29.500 because once someone says this is a

00:57:31.540 product you might like people might say

00:57:34.260 you know what I like that idea I'd like to

00:57:35.960 get away from Vancouver and all these

00:57:38.480 lunatics down there who think they know

00:57:40.540 how to run northern BC they think they

00:57:43.760 can just survive on macchiatos and

00:57:46.280 frappuccinos at Starbucks and that's an

00:57:48.660 industry no that's not an industry that is

00:57:51.820 a service that is that is supported through

00:57:54.500 having a multi-dimensional economy that

00:57:57.400 is supported by different industries

00:57:59.600 industries bring jobs and support to the

00:58:02.540 lower mainland where the head offices are

00:58:04.400 so I think that this is a discussion that

00:58:08.720 is going to come up more and more I'm not

00:58:11.200 boosting it myself I want to be clear on

00:58:12.900 that I am not here to say I am the

00:58:14.480 separatist of British Columbia but it is

00:58:16.540 on it is out there and and once again I

00:58:19.060 like to say if I were premier for the day

00:58:20.800 I would say if people want to talk about

00:58:22.980 it let's talk about it let's have a

00:58:24.860 referendum let's raise it let's ask

00:58:26.600 British Columbians what they want and it

00:58:29.700 could be that all of northern BC wants to

00:58:31.600 graft itself onto Alberta we open up the

00:58:34.160 pipelines and start that oil rolling

00:58:35.940 right out to the coast and bypass this

00:58:38.420 silly by this this by the way this coastal

00:58:40.460 First Nations group is a complete fraud it

00:58:43.580 is not actually a tribe or a band it has

00:58:46.200 been created by a group called makeway.org

00:58:48.900 which used to be called Tides Foundation

00:58:50.580 and the Rockefeller Foundation and they've

00:58:52.320 created this group that has lobbied hard

00:58:54.640 for things like the Great Bear Rainforest and

00:58:56.620 Ferry Creek and all these things that they do

00:58:58.380 constantly to shut down industry and

00:59:00.380 resource extraction in our province so and

00:59:04.100 their their goal is to landlock Alberta that

00:59:07.240 is the goal of these billion dollar funded

00:59:10.500 groups coming out of the United States and

00:59:13.500 it's been a real

00:59:15.660 well it's funny though you get like in the

00:59:19.080 media we'll investigate any grassroots

00:59:21.360 conservative organization that exists in

00:59:23.880 Canada and it's like really there's no where's

00:59:27.060 like as you sometimes point out in the past

00:59:29.420 where's the fifth estate going through all of

00:59:31.900 these groups and all the financial ties and

00:59:34.220 what their goals are because you could even if

00:59:37.220 you're anti-pipeline you could at least point

00:59:39.720 out the hypocrisy that these groups aren't

00:59:41.520 doing it back home and they're taking the money

00:59:43.460 from the United States bringing it up to

00:59:44.780 Canada to try and lock things up with

00:59:46.860 millionaires from like the founder of Tides or

00:59:49.980 whatever Joel Solomon and the other lady who's

00:59:52.340 the inherited 60 million from the Rubbermaid

00:59:54.720 company Joel Solomon inherited his money from

00:59:57.180 his dad who was a an industrialist and he

00:59:59.560 inherited two or three million dollars from a

01:00:01.440 place in Tennessee we've got two people from the

01:00:03.560 states coming up here and they moved to Cortez

01:00:05.280 Island which is sort of the the the mother

01:00:07.640 load of wacky leftist thought you you go over

01:00:10.440 there and they're saying that we got to shut down

01:00:11.940 the whole province and so this is where they're

01:00:14.060 starting and they take their money they bring it

01:00:16.040 up here and I say could you please go back down

01:00:17.980 to the states and manage your own affairs because

01:00:20.020 we've got problems up here and what you're doing

01:00:22.320 is hurting British Columbians we don't want you

01:00:24.600 here we don't want the United Nations telling

01:00:26.840 us what to do here we don't want Tides and the

01:00:29.520 Rockefeller group telling us what to do here

01:00:31.460 go back and I always say to you remember there

01:00:33.640 was a hotel that got the Trump name on it it was

01:00:35.780 on Georgia Street in Vancouver it was a hotel

01:00:38.120 that had Trump Hotel or something and they just

01:00:40.160 paid for the name because it was okay at the

01:00:42.400 time I don't think even Trump was involved in

01:00:44.000 politics yet they had protests all the time

01:00:46.520 finally that hotel submitted and removed the name

01:00:50.300 Trump it's now called the Paradox Hotel which

01:00:52.340 is actually an ironic name but imagine if there

01:00:55.840 was imagine imagine if there was a Trump

01:00:58.340 foundation let's just pretend for a minute

01:01:00.440 there's a Trump foundation that is meddling in

01:01:02.920 all of the cities and controls and land stuff in

01:01:07.360 our province imagine what the media would do with

01:01:09.860 that story and it demonstrates what what their

01:01:14.560 motivations are when you change the front

01:01:16.360 of the group but you don't actually change the

01:01:19.040 intention somehow it's all different but Bruce

01:01:21.720 do you have any because we're kind of wrapping

01:01:23.180 up here do you have any extra additional

01:01:24.660 comments on any of these issues and of course

01:01:26.620 I'd love to hear what what was it legal probe is

01:01:29.760 or rights probe right sure so but yeah no Dallas's

01:01:33.480 point is well taken but it's also with the

01:01:35.520 cooperation of our governments yes right and so

01:01:39.840 one of the thing that plagues a lot of Canadians is a

01:01:45.680 naivety about their own governments they think that

01:01:49.240 their governments whoever they are whatever their

01:01:51.420 stripe are acting in good faith in their interests and

01:01:55.820 that is simply not the case you I think what we need in

01:01:59.900 this country up along with a whole lot of other things is

01:02:03.940 a little bit of realism and a little bit of hard-nosed

01:02:06.980 skepticism about who our governments are what they do and

01:02:11.460 what their motivations are we have to get out of the space that

01:02:14.820 assumes that our our officials and our bureaucrats and so on

01:02:19.320 are all acting in good faith for the for the betterment of the

01:02:23.060 country if you look at the evidence that that is not true

01:02:27.400 so I I wish I wish more Canadians would would start to see things with a

01:02:34.020 much more critical and skeptical eye right probe is a project of the energy

01:02:40.480 probe research foundation where I describe it as a a law and liberty think

01:02:44.340 tank we've been active since since COVID came on the scene very involved in in

01:02:49.360 that and in a lot of the other issues that that bring to mind the

01:02:55.940 problems both in this country and outside but primarily inside Canada in in

01:03:01.780 terms of the encroachment of the managerial state upon people's rights and

01:03:08.480 freedoms and ability to lead their own lives without interference from an

01:03:12.920 administrative state that is intent on controlling and supervising and tracking

01:03:19.820 and and and and uh in dictating the outcome of social evolution and uh we we do our best to

01:03:28.460 shed as much light on those things as we can that's a magnificent project that's a

01:03:33.180 magnificent we'll definitely link that in the comments below for people to check out

01:03:36.460 sounds like british columbia really needs that because uh one one of the things that

01:03:40.220 we've talked about as uh one bc is that there are a hundred and seventy three thousand

01:03:45.820 regulations codes and statutes in british columbia there are only a hundred and twenty

01:03:51.820 thousand even in ontario where you think that they'll they would be very good at making

01:03:56.620 regulations since most of the federal bureaucracy is also there and you know with probably trading

01:04:01.180 notes with the provincial bureaucrats and then in alberta it's only eighty thousand literally

01:04:06.380 less than half of what's in of what's in uh british columbia uh but i'll just end with you

01:04:11.180 dallas if you have any uh additional comments and anything specifically to plug other than the ubc

01:04:16.700 event i guess the ubc event and i'd highly recommend to people to go to my x account you can see the

01:04:21.420 making a killing documentary it remains a very important piece of work uh i worked very hard on

01:04:27.580 it with my former chief of staff tim tilman who did a superb job on that and the editing and the

01:04:33.180 camera work and we did it all for just under 35 000 it's it's a really great documentary and i

01:04:39.980 learned a lot from working on that i have i was one of those people bruce who used to believe that

01:04:46.460 my government essentially had my best interests at heart that sometimes there was arguments about

01:04:52.300 tax and spend lower taxes not spend so much and that when i grew up was the main dialogue going on in

01:04:58.780 politics in canada things have really changed where they're down to controlling people and i i i've

01:05:05.420 really i actually can't believe how woken up i've been in the last eight years and seen what's happened

01:05:11.340 which is partly why i'm taking action now and everybody who's listening please take action even

01:05:16.220 if it's as small as going to work tomorrow and removing the pronouns and the land acknowledgement

01:05:21.340 from your email page if you can do that do it just do it go watch the documentary and send it to one

01:05:27.660 friend because if you're not doing something each day you are part of the problem this is a this is a war

01:05:33.820 it's a fight and they're not going to give up their control easily and we have to push back

01:05:38.060 if we're going to have any self-respect yeah no and i just checked the numbers i think the

01:05:43.260 documentary on youtube's up to 479 000 views so a lot of people have watched it hopefully a lot of

01:05:49.660 people who didn't uh maybe agree with the perspective the documentary was putting forward

01:05:54.060 before ended up watching and changing their minds uh but yeah thank you guys for both coming on to

01:05:59.180 the show today this has been a fantastic discussion despite the fact i started off really badly

01:06:05.180 mangling bruce's uh organization's name and having a bit of a jumpy start but that's that's just kind

01:06:10.460 of what this show is all about uh but thank you for both coming on and i'll hopefully have you both

01:06:14.620 back uh someday soon oh it's been my pleasure white thanks for having me and dallas you're a voice in the

01:06:20.940 wilderness so so good on you carry on thank you bruce and so i i also gain courage from people like you

01:06:27.260 who are standing up and courage is contagious bruce indeed it is

The National Telegraph - Wyatt Claypool - January 21, 2026

David Eby, DRIPA, UNDRIP & the End of BC Property Rights – Panel with Bruce Pardy & Dallas Brodie

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